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Speaker 1: Coming up on Confessions of a Christian Alcoholic.

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Speaker 2: It was my doctor and she just said, are you okay?

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Speaker 2: And I said, I think I'm dying. And she said,

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Speaker 2: I think you are too. And it was like this

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Speaker 2: wave of no one had said death before. You know,

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Speaker 2: no one had said that to me. And she said,

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Speaker 2: can you get here? If you can't, I'm going to

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Speaker 2: send an ambulance to you. Life Audio.

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Speaker 1: Hello, hello, and welcome to the Confessions of a Christian

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Speaker 1: Alcoholic podcast. I am your host, John Seidel, and I

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Speaker 1: am the Christian who became an alcoholic, not the other

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Speaker 1: way around. Here we get radically vulnerable about addiction, recovery,

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Speaker 1: messy sanctification, and all the things we turn to instead

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Speaker 1: of Jesus because we're all addicted to something. You'll hear raw,

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Speaker 1: honest conversations from those who have struggled, those who help

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Speaker 1: those who struggle, and why aiming for Jesus and getting

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Speaker 1: sobriety thrown in is actually the best goal. So let's

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Speaker 1: get right into this week's episode. So two things that

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Speaker 1: I think are so important to talk about over and

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Speaker 1: over and over again are the concepts of cognitive dissonance

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Speaker 1: as well as the comparisons. And those two things take

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Speaker 1: center stage in the interview today with Carla Atkins. Carla

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Speaker 1: is someone who had been in the medical community. She

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Speaker 1: knew all the stuff about alcoholism and whatnot. And yet,

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Speaker 1: because of cognitive dissonance and the comparison trap, she still

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Speaker 1: doesn't found herself in a hospital bed where the doctor

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Speaker 1: was saying that she was dying because of her drinking.

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Speaker 1: And I think on one hand, it's interesting because her life,

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Speaker 1: even though she got to that point, the lead up

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Speaker 1: to that didn't look like the quote unquote traditional alcoholic.

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Speaker 1: It didn't look like the person squandering their money, living

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Speaker 1: under a bridge, having sacrificed everything in the world for

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Speaker 1: the next drink. It just silently and just sneakily got

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Speaker 1: to that point where her liver started shutting down and

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Speaker 1: still never really looked like the traditional alcoholic even at

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Speaker 1: that point. And then the cognitive dissonance, right? Like she

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Speaker 1: could play that game as well as a Christian, as

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Speaker 1: someone faith as someone being in the medical community and

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Speaker 1: knowing and understanding, you know, what can happen. And I

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Speaker 1: just think that those two things, cognitive dissonance and the

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Speaker 1: comparison trap, are tools that the devil uses time and

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Speaker 1: time again in different ways with so many of us.

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Speaker 1: And even those two things can have variations and look

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Speaker 1: different ways in different people. So Carla is the author

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Speaker 1: of a memoir called And She Came Tumbling Down, and

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Speaker 1: she has written about her story, and she's going to

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Speaker 1: share that story in detail today. But before we get

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Speaker 1: to that point, I just want to encourage you that

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Speaker 1: if you are starting to rethink your own relationship with alcohol,

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Speaker 1: not only do I want you to check out Carla's resources,

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Speaker 1: but you can also go to veritasrecovery.org that is the

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Speaker 1: nonprofit that I have now started to help people who

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Speaker 1: are looking for resources to start making a change in

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Speaker 1: their life, especially from what I call gospel-centered recovery approach.

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Speaker 1: I didn't come up with that, so I don't pretend

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Speaker 1: to be the author of that, but it is the

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Speaker 1: approach that I think is the best approach. That approach

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Speaker 1: can incorporate things like 12-step recovery and AA and Celebrate

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Speaker 1: Recovery and whatnot. But it's inviting Jesus into all of

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Speaker 1: those aspects and then inviting Jesus into all the parts

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Speaker 1: of yourself. So you can go to VeritasRecovery.org, check that

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Speaker 1: out and see more about what is available to you.

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Speaker 1: So without further ado, let's talk to Carla Adkins about

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Speaker 1: her own story of recovery and where she had gotten to,

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Speaker 1: and how the Lord pulled her out of it. Carla,

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Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining the Confessions of a

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Speaker 1: Christian Alcoholic podcast. I'm so honored to have you. As

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Speaker 1: I said in the introduction, you came via a recommendation

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Speaker 1: from someone who I absolutely love and trust, Christy Osborne.

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Speaker 1: And so when she said I had to have you on,

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Speaker 1: I was like, done, done, done.

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Speaker 2: Well, thank you for having me. And yes, Christy is

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Speaker 2: one of my favorite people. So this was meant to be.

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Speaker 1: Yes. And as we were talking in the kind of

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Speaker 1: the run up to this before I hit record is.

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Speaker 1: you know, we're both Midwest people. You kind of, you're like, well, I'm,

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Speaker 1: you know, kind of in the South. And I'm like,

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I think there's something there. And then

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Speaker 1: you drop the ball or the bomb. Right, right.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's the accent. I always, like I could, if

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Speaker 2: I was a betting person, I could win bets because

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Speaker 2: people just can't figure out where I'm from. And it's

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Speaker 2: hard because I have, you know, I've lived in the

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Speaker 2: South for so long. Like I grew up, I moved

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Speaker 2: to South Carolina when I was in the first grade.

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Speaker 2: I've been in Pawleys Island since, So truly, I'm a Southerner,

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Speaker 2: but I was born in Iowa. And, you know, so

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Speaker 2: I think you just can't leave that Midwest is in

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Speaker 2: my blood, I guess.

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Speaker 1: That's right. And maybe, I don't know. Maybe it's that

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Speaker 1: Midwest that's in your blood that caused a lot of

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Speaker 1: alcohol to be in your bloodstream. As we know, the

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Speaker 1: Midwest area loves their alcohol. And so you have a

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Speaker 1: story and, you know, you have written it in the

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Speaker 1: book and she came tumbling down, breaking the bonds of

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Speaker 1: alcohol and creating a life of freedom. And so I

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Speaker 1: want you today to just I mean, the description is

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Speaker 1: is I mean, we got hospital stays. We've got liver failure.

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Speaker 1: I mean, and and so I'm excited to hear your

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Speaker 1: story because I know there's someone out there that can

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Speaker 1: relate to it. So I just want to turn it

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Speaker 1: over to you to tell your story. But before we

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Speaker 1: kind of launch into the story, I like to say

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Speaker 1: to people just I like to have you introduce yourself. Right.

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Speaker 1: How do you introduce yourself? because I think that says

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Speaker 1: a lot about you. So why don't you introduce yourself

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Speaker 1: and then we'll get into the story.

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Speaker 2: Yes, well, again, thank you for having me, John. And

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Speaker 2: I'm excited to dive into my story. But again, my

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Speaker 2: name is Carla Adkins. I am first and foremost a

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Speaker 2: wife and a mother. And it's something that I just

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Speaker 2: love that I always say God kept me here for

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Speaker 2: a reason. And so I got the opportunity to do

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Speaker 2: these things. But I am also very passionate about helping

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Speaker 2: people change their relationship with alcohol. And it was after

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Speaker 2: I was alcohol-free for a while, I started to get

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Speaker 2: this nudge. And I I describe it as like the

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Speaker 2: little nudge started to get bigger and stronger. And then

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Speaker 2: it was like this big push, like, are you listening

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Speaker 2: to me? And I described to people, like, I knew

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Speaker 2: if like I got to heaven one day and God

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Speaker 2: looked at me, he was going to look at me

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Speaker 2: and say, are you serious? Like you didn't do anything

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Speaker 2: with that whole thing. Cause I, I just kept my

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Speaker 2: story to myself for a long time because I was healthy.

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Speaker 2: I was happy. I had survived this horrific thing. Um,

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Speaker 2: But in a mix of that, I got to see

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Speaker 2: the hypocrisy of the world, the truth of what alcohol

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Speaker 2: was doing to people. And I kept feeling this like

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Speaker 2: thing bubble up inside of me of like wanting people

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Speaker 2: to know, like, wait a minute, I want you to

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Speaker 2: know about this. I want you to know like this

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Speaker 2: is actually what it does. And also living in a very,

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Speaker 2: you know, small beachy town. And this could be any town.

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Speaker 2: it just was like, man, I wish there was a

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Speaker 2: safe place for people to be able to talk about

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Speaker 2: their alcohol use. Because that was something that I didn't

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Speaker 2: feel like I had. I was so scared that someone

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Speaker 2: would find out. And then they would take my precious

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Speaker 2: alcohol from me. I just was very, very, I wanted

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Speaker 2: to control the narrative and I wanted to just keep

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Speaker 2: my life a certain way, but I was afraid of

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Speaker 2: people finding out. So I was like, what if there

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Speaker 2: was like the safe place for people to share? And

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Speaker 2: I could help. But that's kind of where it started.

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Speaker 2: And now, you know, and the big thing is I

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Speaker 2: talk about in the book, you know, it was the

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Speaker 2: Bible study that I started in good old Georgetown, South Carolina.

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Speaker 2: And I went into that Bible study with protecting, completely

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Speaker 2: guarded and protecting myself, scared to share anything. And I

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Speaker 2: left that Bible study with a business and a blog.

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Speaker 2: And that's how much God moved. Like, I truly, even

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Speaker 2: I described, I shared with my small group leader in

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Speaker 2: that group. I'm like, I'm a very private person. I'm

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Speaker 2: not going to share anything. I just was, I was scared.

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Speaker 2: scared is the biggest word. It goes deeper than that.

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Speaker 2: There was a lot of shame I had to work through,

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Speaker 2: but it was such a powerful experience. I left knowing

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Speaker 2: truly that God was telling me, like, I did not

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Speaker 2: save you for you to keep this story to yourself.

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Speaker 2: I had no idea what I was doing, but then left.

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Speaker 2: And now, you know, my goodness, then wrote a book,

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Speaker 2: got trained in a, you know, again, a methodology that

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Speaker 2: really helped me in finding freedom. And now I have

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Speaker 2: a business and it's a space where, you know, women

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Speaker 2: can just find community and talk about this process of

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Speaker 2: stepping away from alcohol.

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Speaker 1: So we're going to talk about the zero-proof life a

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Speaker 1: little bit more later and that process as well. But

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Speaker 1: now take us back. You talked about after you were

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Speaker 1: alcohol-free for a little bit. But to get to that point,

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Speaker 1: it was a roller coaster up and down. And so

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Speaker 1: tell us the story of your relationship with alcohol, where

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Speaker 1: it led you. Start as far back as you need

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Speaker 1: to to give us the context. But I would love

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Speaker 1: to hear that. We'll be right back after this.

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Speaker 2: Okay. Yeah. And again, it goes way back. I mean,

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Speaker 2: I think from the very beginning, John, you know, I

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Speaker 2: was just this girl that always dreamt of the day

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Speaker 2: that I could drink. You know, it was just always

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Speaker 2: very romanticized in my mind of, you know, that pretty

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Speaker 2: glass or, you know, just the social aspect of it.

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Speaker 2: But it was this get to, I get to do

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Speaker 2: this one day. And I'll never forget, I think my

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Speaker 2: first experience, you know, goes back to high school and

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Speaker 2: drinking then. When I saw the shift, though, was really

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Speaker 2: in college. And college was when I really, really struggled

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Speaker 2: with anxiety. And this is a big piece of my story.

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Speaker 2: And having panic attacks, social anxiety. And I found this

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Speaker 2: miracle of alcohol that helped me in situations. And I always,

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Speaker 2: I describe it as, you know, it locking in and

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Speaker 2: growing roots. And that's the dangerous thing about alcohol when

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Speaker 2: we give it specific jobs. And for me, I started

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Speaker 2: off giving it the job of helping me with my anxieties.

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Speaker 2: and my anxiety was horrible. I love that we talk

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Speaker 2: about anxiety so much more, you know, nowadays, but, you know,

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Speaker 2: to age myself, because I need to, you know, this

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Speaker 2: was 95, 96, and we just didn't talk about it

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Speaker 2: like we do now, you know?

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Speaker 1: I started talking about it in 2016, and we weren't

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Speaker 1: even talking about it, you know, as much back then.

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Speaker 2: So back then, it was just like, don't, and I

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Speaker 2: it made me feel so alone. It made me feel

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Speaker 2: so odd. Like what is wrong with me? But it

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Speaker 2: truly was paralyzing and it, it weaved its way into

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Speaker 2: my life where, you know, all of a sudden I

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Speaker 2: was struggling, you know, with going to the grocery store.

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Speaker 2: I was struggling with driving on the interstate. I was,

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Speaker 2: I was really, I look back on myself then and

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Speaker 2: it just breaks my heart. I, I was really having

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Speaker 2: a hard time. I tried to go to some of

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Speaker 2: the therapists on campus. I was, I was in panic

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Speaker 2: mode all the time. And then all of a sudden,

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Speaker 2: here comes this substance that, man, everybody was doing socially.

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Speaker 2: I got to do it because then I was in college. And,

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Speaker 2: you know, that's what you do. Again, another mindset and

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Speaker 2: belief system. And it helped. It initially helped, you know.

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Speaker 2: And I was like, oh, my gosh, this is a win-win.

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Speaker 2: I get to drink this and it helped me.

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Speaker 1: You know, the first time I got drunk, it was like,

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Speaker 1: oh my gosh, it calmed me. This is incredible. I

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Speaker 1: don't have to worry as someone who struggled with anxiety

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Speaker 1: as well. Like, yes.

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Speaker 2: Thank you.

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Speaker 1: Yes.

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Speaker 2: I'm like, this is my answer. And again, if I

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Speaker 2: look back and you see the danger coming because, and

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Speaker 2: this is why I like when I'm describing it to

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Speaker 2: people is, you know, the idea of giving it jobs

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Speaker 2: because that's when one job turned into another. But also

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Speaker 2: then it's this danger of, okay, so I use it

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Speaker 2: to socialize. So that means I need alcohol each time

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Speaker 2: I socialize. Okay, so then we're, you know, gaining a

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Speaker 2: pattern here. And then I gave it, you know, the

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Speaker 2: job to help me with my confidence or, you know,

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Speaker 2: made me feel like, oh, this is really who I am.

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Speaker 2: And I just started to lose myself. And all of

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Speaker 2: a sudden, you know, alcohol was using it more and more.

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Speaker 2: And don't get me wrong. Like, this is what is

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Speaker 2: important for people to know, too, is it doesn't always

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Speaker 2: look how people think it looks. I was very successful, right?

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Speaker 2: And we've got to change the picture of what people,

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Speaker 2: that person that's struggling with alcohol, what that looks like.

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Speaker 2: What that looked like for me, like, I couldn't, my

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Speaker 2: parents were just always praising me. Look at you, Carla.

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Speaker 2: You know, you're just, You're taking all these hours and

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Speaker 2: getting good grades and, you know, working and taking all

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Speaker 2: these hours. I was driven and doing well. And then

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Speaker 2: even after, you know, college, you know, driven in my

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Speaker 2: professional life. And I did, I was successful and then

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Speaker 2: got into pharmaceutical sales. And I was, I just, that

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Speaker 2: was my persona. And I knew that. Again, it's that

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Speaker 2: that cognitive dissonance, that little whisper. I was scared, you know,

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Speaker 2: I was scared. But I just couldn't imagine it being

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Speaker 2: any other way. And that's where I also want to.

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Speaker 2: This is another thing that I'm passionate about. You know,

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Speaker 2: as all this is happening. Also, that picture. that we're

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Speaker 2: talking about, it's, it's, it's a black and white, either,

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Speaker 2: you know, you're an alcoholic or not, or it's like this,

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Speaker 2: you step over a line. And so my whole thing was,

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Speaker 2: I'm just not going to be that. I mean, that

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Speaker 2: sounds horrible. I don't ever want to be that. And

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Speaker 2: so it was just this picture of darkness and doom

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Speaker 2: and all. So I, I'm, that is my picture of

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Speaker 2: what is alcohol free life is like. And then, you know,

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Speaker 2: this life that I'm like, I feel like I'm on

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Speaker 2: fast forward, you know, racing, but also alcohol is constantly

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Speaker 2: on board. And then, you know, what used to give

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Speaker 2: me that little buzz wasn't enough anymore. And, you know,

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Speaker 2: I'll never forget watching the wine bottles and waking up

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Speaker 2: the next day. And, you know, it would start to

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Speaker 2: get lower and lower, like how much I had the

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Speaker 2: night before. And then I just quit, you know, counting.

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Speaker 2: I didn't want to.

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Speaker 1: Because of the shame, right? You're like, oh my goodness, right?

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Speaker 2: And those are the things that are so, gosh, so

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Speaker 2: important to talk about because those are the little things

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Speaker 2: when we talk about that, the person listening goes, oh

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Speaker 2: my gosh, I did that too. You know, the hiding,

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Speaker 2: you know, I remember someone describing, you know, the clank

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Speaker 2: of the bottles when they pick up the trash and

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Speaker 2: how they just, that shame that would come over them.

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Speaker 2: And it just was, It touched me. And it's also

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Speaker 2: why I now share everything about myself. And that took

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Speaker 2: some time. Again, God was at work, but it took

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Speaker 2: a little time for me to work on that.

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Speaker 1: Can we pause for a second? There's two things you

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Speaker 1: said that I just want to revisit before we go forward.

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Speaker 1: And that is one, and I know you talk about

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Speaker 1: this in your book, but maybe you could unpack it

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Speaker 1: a little bit. But you talk about giving... giving alcohol

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Speaker 1: certain jobs. Can you explain that a little bit more?

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Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely. And it's one of the things that I

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Speaker 2: coach around all the time because it's one of the

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Speaker 2: things that for me, in my experience as a coach

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Speaker 2: and doing this alcohol-free thing as long as I have now,

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Speaker 2: it's what keeps people stuck and it's what keeps people

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Speaker 2: going back is they never really peel back those layers

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Speaker 2: of the job. So when I say job, a specific one,

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Speaker 2: I was just working with someone on. And honestly, to

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Speaker 2: be honest, John, struggling because it's talked about. I even

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Speaker 2: heard it at church, you know, and that is the

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Speaker 2: job of alcohol. We use alcohol when we celebrate. And

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Speaker 2: so I've already talked about anxiety, you know, social things, stress,

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Speaker 2: the end of the day, you know, how many times

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Speaker 2: have you heard, you know, I'm going to, you know,

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Speaker 2: I need a drink, you know, that verbiage, that verbiage.

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Speaker 2: And again, those jobs, they really honestly started way before

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Speaker 2: we ever took a sip of alcohol because we've seen it.

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Speaker 2: We've heard it. We've watched it. You know, we've watched

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Speaker 2: people use alcohol to celebrate. We've heard that message. Oh,

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Speaker 2: it's five o'clock somewhere. It's time to, you deserve this.

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Speaker 2: You deserve it. And those things run deep. And so

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Speaker 2: when I started with anxiety, then it was slowly like

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Speaker 2: this and that. And celebrating, just to touch on, that

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Speaker 2: is a big one. It is difficult for people to

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Speaker 2: step away from that. And I joke when I try

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Speaker 2: and have these conversations with people that before the wall

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Speaker 2: goes up of defensiveness. because we really could have some

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Speaker 2: really powerful conversations. And I remember even talking with people,

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Speaker 2: my family and my siblings, we laugh about it now

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Speaker 2: because they heard themselves. It's like, I mean, who wants

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Speaker 2: to go to a dry wedding? You know, here in

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Speaker 2: the South, dry wedding means there's no alcohol. And that's,

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Speaker 2: you know, all over, but who would want to go?

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Speaker 2: And I want to say, oh, see, that's what I'm

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Speaker 2: talking about.

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Speaker 1: Well, it's, you know, I was sober for over a

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Speaker 1: month initially. And, you know, I have two dates tattooed

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Speaker 1: on my arm here. One is the date I hit

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Speaker 1: rock bottom. And one is the date of my last drink.

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Speaker 1: Those are different dates. And because I hit rock bottom,

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Speaker 1: I commit to not drinking. I start going to therapy.

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Speaker 1: I'm making a lot of progress. And that's, you know,

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Speaker 1: towards the end of May. And we get to 4th

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Speaker 1: of July. And I didn't. You know, realize how ingrained

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Speaker 1: the celebration culture was in my mind. So it's 4th

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Speaker 1: of July. I'm struggling. I'm like, it's 4th of July.

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Speaker 1: How can I not drink? And I'm and then, you know,

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Speaker 1: I get through almost the entire weekend. I'm just like,

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Speaker 1: you know, screw this. You know, I'm having I'm having

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Speaker 1: a drink. And that leads to, you know, like a

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Speaker 1: week bender. Right. Because that celebration, it was like, you

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Speaker 1: can't celebrate without having alcohol. And that was the job

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Speaker 1: that I had, one of the jobs that I had

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Speaker 1: given in my life.

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Speaker 2: One of them.

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Speaker 1: Yep.

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Speaker 2: And then think about it, John, we've even given alcohol

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Speaker 2: a job to help when alcohol makes us feel sick.

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Speaker 2: Hair of a dog. So it's like, you know, we

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Speaker 2: give it jobs all the time. And remember, think about,

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Speaker 2: and this is where I just want people to understand

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Speaker 2: because there's so much shame when they're like, why can't

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Speaker 2: I just stop? And when I'm like, listen, have some

356
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Speaker 2: grace there. This is something that runs deep. It runs

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Speaker 2: deep in our culture and society. And then we're also

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Speaker 2: dealing with an addictive substance on top of it. So

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Speaker 2: this is different than other things. This is an addictive

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Speaker 2: substance tied to different situations. And that's why I like

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Speaker 2: to talk about jobs. And I also like to talk

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Speaker 2: about jobs because It's something that is easily digestible for

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Speaker 2: people and people can pick up on. You know, like

364
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Speaker 2: when my niece went to college, I was like, you know,

365
00:22:06,369 --> 00:22:10,780
Speaker 2: I just watch for people and for yourself to use

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Speaker 2: it for reasons. Just, you know. Be aware, you know,

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Speaker 2: for those, what we just said, the celebration, the anxiety,

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Speaker 2: the stress, I deserve this at the end of a

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Speaker 2: hard day. And just watch it because then what slowly

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Speaker 2: happens to people is then they can't imagine, just like

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Speaker 2: the wedding example, they can't imagine doing these things without it.

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Speaker 2: And so it's so daunting for the person that's struggling.

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Speaker 2: It's so daunting. It's like, how can I ever do this?

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Speaker 2: I'm not going to be able to, you know, how

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Speaker 2: do I celebrate?

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Speaker 1: Yep.

377
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Speaker 2: I've had, you know, people just vacations. It's tough. And

378
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Speaker 2: so it's when you can take it job per job

379
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Speaker 2: and then break it down and ask yourself, okay, if

380
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Speaker 2: I was the hiring and firing person, and if I

381
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Speaker 2: really looked at how it performed, if I could really

382
00:23:03,010 --> 00:23:06,669
Speaker 2: have done that with just using the anxiety, because the

383
00:23:06,730 --> 00:23:10,000
Speaker 2: way alcohol works in our bodies is, you know, ultimately

384
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Speaker 2: I always say it's like the worst loan shark ever. Yes,

385
00:23:12,980 --> 00:23:14,740
Speaker 2: it's going to help you in the initially, but then

386
00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:19,060
Speaker 2: it's going to take back way more than it ever gives. And,

387
00:23:19,380 --> 00:23:21,750
Speaker 2: and so then it's like, if I looked as a,

388
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Speaker 2: you know, the person that I hired that for that job,

389
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Speaker 2: if I looked at the performance, I'd be like, wait

390
00:23:28,109 --> 00:23:31,480
Speaker 2: a minute, I feel horrible. I just didn't have the

391
00:23:31,500 --> 00:23:33,980
Speaker 2: wherewithal then to be able to say that. And then

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Speaker 2: if you can take your experience and combine it with

393
00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:40,639
Speaker 2: the science of what's actually happening in your body is

394
00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:43,260
Speaker 2: so powerful and it's eye opening. It's like, wait a minute,

395
00:23:43,790 --> 00:23:47,070
Speaker 2: it was making things so much worse. And so in

396
00:23:47,109 --> 00:23:48,510
Speaker 2: helping people understand that.

397
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Speaker 1: And I want to get to that science in a

398
00:23:51,410 --> 00:23:53,130
Speaker 1: little bit, but I want to go back then to the,

399
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Speaker 1: to one other thing before we jump back into your story.

400
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Speaker 1: And that is, you know, You you used a phrase

401
00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:02,380
Speaker 1: that I talk about in my own book and that

402
00:24:02,420 --> 00:24:06,010
Speaker 1: I think is so important. And that's cognitive dissonance. Right. Especially,

403
00:24:06,030 --> 00:24:09,909
Speaker 1: you know, as I say, the Christian who became an alcoholic.

404
00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:11,700
Speaker 1: And it's not like, you know, some people like, so

405
00:24:11,740 --> 00:24:12,860
Speaker 1: you were leading a double life.

406
00:24:12,940 --> 00:24:13,239
Speaker 2: And I'm like.

407
00:24:14,340 --> 00:24:17,140
Speaker 1: I think that when you use that term double life,

408
00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:20,060
Speaker 1: there's a lot of intentionality behind that, right? And so

409
00:24:20,100 --> 00:24:22,740
Speaker 1: I kind of bristle a little bit at that, meaning

410
00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:26,050
Speaker 1: it wasn't like I was like, I want to intentionally

411
00:24:26,109 --> 00:24:29,969
Speaker 1: deceive everyone or whatnot. It's actually more that I had

412
00:24:30,050 --> 00:24:32,869
Speaker 1: cognitive dissonance where I was either able to justify it

413
00:24:32,970 --> 00:24:37,230
Speaker 1: or even able to compartmentalize. I talk about the parts

414
00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:41,320
Speaker 1: of ourselves, but you had mentioned your faith. And so

415
00:24:41,460 --> 00:24:44,980
Speaker 1: I'm curious, is as this is starting to ramp up,

416
00:24:45,260 --> 00:24:49,340
Speaker 1: you're a Christian at this point. And so maybe explain

417
00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:52,960
Speaker 1: some of that cognitive dissonance in your experience.

418
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Speaker 2: Yes. And this is where, again, things can get sticky

419
00:24:57,480 --> 00:25:00,680
Speaker 2: for some people, but I think it's important to talk about.

420
00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:03,199
Speaker 2: And that's where I'm so glad that you went here

421
00:25:03,220 --> 00:25:07,380
Speaker 2: because I was really hoping that we could pause and

422
00:25:07,460 --> 00:25:09,610
Speaker 2: talk about this some because I want to have these

423
00:25:09,660 --> 00:25:13,970
Speaker 2: conversations of, Because sometimes I felt even more shamed because

424
00:25:14,350 --> 00:25:16,730
Speaker 2: so many people, and I see it on social media even,

425
00:25:16,770 --> 00:25:19,730
Speaker 2: just pray. I was sitting there in that, you know,

426
00:25:19,910 --> 00:25:23,290
Speaker 2: in the seat, you know, ashamed. I knew I probably

427
00:25:23,310 --> 00:25:25,890
Speaker 2: didn't feel very good from the night before of drinking.

428
00:25:26,990 --> 00:25:32,650
Speaker 2: I'm scared praying about it. But there's so much advice

429
00:25:32,690 --> 00:25:35,260
Speaker 2: of just, you know, pray and then, you know, you'll

430
00:25:35,300 --> 00:25:39,800
Speaker 2: get this help. I was praying. I was praying. Oh,

431
00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:42,639
Speaker 2: I was praying. And because I was, you know, as

432
00:25:42,740 --> 00:25:45,280
Speaker 2: I led up and my drinking got worse, I was

433
00:25:45,500 --> 00:25:49,440
Speaker 2: absolutely scared. And then also, this is a big thing, too,

434
00:25:50,330 --> 00:25:53,090
Speaker 2: because I was drinking, I was living a life that

435
00:25:53,109 --> 00:25:56,189
Speaker 2: was out of integrity, out of alignment for myself. And

436
00:25:56,210 --> 00:25:58,550
Speaker 2: that brought back even more shame, like almost like I

437
00:25:58,630 --> 00:26:03,530
Speaker 2: don't even deserve to be here. Like it, again, and

438
00:26:03,950 --> 00:26:08,950
Speaker 2: thank goodness for church and relationship. You know, I feel

439
00:26:08,970 --> 00:26:12,820
Speaker 2: like and that's what happened for me. I went from

440
00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:15,560
Speaker 2: feeling like just showing up and going to church and

441
00:26:15,660 --> 00:26:20,680
Speaker 2: shifting into a relationship with Jesus. And that is what

442
00:26:20,700 --> 00:26:23,740
Speaker 2: saved me. It is totally what saved me. But I

443
00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:26,600
Speaker 2: think it's important for people to help people dig more,

444
00:26:27,020 --> 00:26:30,360
Speaker 2: you know, in those circumstances and not just like, just

445
00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:32,860
Speaker 2: stop doing it and just pray and do all this.

446
00:26:33,420 --> 00:26:36,820
Speaker 2: I want people to understand the why behind that. what

447
00:26:36,859 --> 00:26:40,280
Speaker 2: they're doing, you know? And so it helps empower them

448
00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:45,379
Speaker 2: and it helps inform them. And, you know, I was,

449
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:50,660
Speaker 2: I love this story because it is so a story

450
00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:55,659
Speaker 2: from the South because I went to someone's testimony one

451
00:26:55,700 --> 00:26:57,419
Speaker 2: day and it was way out in the sticks of

452
00:26:57,460 --> 00:26:59,530
Speaker 2: South Carolina. I had to drive like an hour to

453
00:26:59,570 --> 00:27:02,550
Speaker 2: get there, but someone I knew was giving their testimony

454
00:27:02,570 --> 00:27:07,120
Speaker 2: at this small little country church. And And I wanted

455
00:27:07,140 --> 00:27:10,800
Speaker 2: to be there to support her. And I was alcohol-free

456
00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:13,139
Speaker 2: at this point, still kind of figuring out my way,

457
00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:17,689
Speaker 2: you know, but was solidly alcohol-free. And you know you're

458
00:27:17,710 --> 00:27:19,370
Speaker 2: in the South when they give you an example that

459
00:27:19,410 --> 00:27:22,290
Speaker 2: involves hunting. And she said, when you go hunting, you know,

460
00:27:22,369 --> 00:27:33,630
Speaker 2: you bring certain weapons for certain prey you don't bring

461
00:27:33,670 --> 00:27:37,070
Speaker 2: the same gun you know when you go deer hunting

462
00:27:37,090 --> 00:27:39,790
Speaker 2: than you do when you're going for doves or whatever

463
00:27:39,869 --> 00:27:40,570
Speaker 2: and again i'm not.

464
00:27:40,530 --> 00:27:41,710
Speaker 1: I love this come on.

465
00:27:41,609 --> 00:27:44,530
Speaker 2: So y'all just forgive me for any kind of scenario

466
00:27:44,690 --> 00:27:48,729
Speaker 2: so she's like you know what you're going to attack

467
00:27:48,770 --> 00:27:52,889
Speaker 2: and the best weapon to get them and she said

468
00:27:52,910 --> 00:27:56,129
Speaker 2: and the devil knew the devil works the same And

469
00:27:56,210 --> 00:27:59,290
Speaker 2: she said, this woman was talking about, you know, how

470
00:27:59,310 --> 00:28:01,870
Speaker 2: he was using it. All I could think about was

471
00:28:02,770 --> 00:28:05,210
Speaker 2: what was happening to me for all those years. I

472
00:28:05,250 --> 00:28:08,209
Speaker 2: was listening at church. And meanwhile, the devil, I was

473
00:28:08,250 --> 00:28:11,010
Speaker 2: making it easy. He knew exactly which weapon to use.

474
00:28:11,150 --> 00:28:13,150
Speaker 2: He didn't even have to get out of his, you know,

475
00:28:13,470 --> 00:28:16,950
Speaker 2: lazy boy recliner. He just picked up wine and shot

476
00:28:16,990 --> 00:28:18,850
Speaker 2: it at me. And that was what got me every time,

477
00:28:19,430 --> 00:28:22,390
Speaker 2: you know. So it was just, it was that picture

478
00:28:22,430 --> 00:28:25,350
Speaker 2: that was like, oh my gosh. And it keeps us silent.

479
00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:28,660
Speaker 2: And it keeps us silent in that pew, you know,

480
00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:31,220
Speaker 2: of going, well, man, if I was just good enough

481
00:28:31,340 --> 00:28:34,440
Speaker 2: or if I just prayed hard enough, this would be fixed.

482
00:28:35,020 --> 00:28:38,380
Speaker 2: And yes, my God, because God can do anything, right?

483
00:28:38,980 --> 00:28:44,520
Speaker 2: But anything, but I want to help people along that

484
00:28:44,620 --> 00:28:47,660
Speaker 2: journey better and, you know, help walk alongside them to

485
00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:51,070
Speaker 2: teach them what is the substance that we're fighting to drink?

486
00:28:51,510 --> 00:28:51,910
Speaker 1: What is it?

487
00:28:51,970 --> 00:28:56,130
Speaker 2: Because we don't do that, you know? And I think

488
00:28:56,170 --> 00:28:58,969
Speaker 2: that's important. And, you know, what is it? How does

489
00:28:59,010 --> 00:29:01,630
Speaker 2: it interact with the body? What does it do? And

490
00:29:01,690 --> 00:29:04,040
Speaker 2: empower them in that way and get them to see

491
00:29:04,100 --> 00:29:07,220
Speaker 2: the shift. And I think that's where I've seen really

492
00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:10,360
Speaker 2: powerful things happen. I think people in the church are

493
00:29:10,420 --> 00:29:17,010
Speaker 2: very well-intentioned. But, you know, there's some better ways, I

494
00:29:17,050 --> 00:29:20,390
Speaker 2: feel like, about going at it and tackling it and

495
00:29:20,450 --> 00:29:22,570
Speaker 2: addressing it. So, yeah.

496
00:29:23,090 --> 00:29:25,930
Speaker 1: So let's jump back into your story. So where we

497
00:29:25,970 --> 00:29:29,670
Speaker 1: left off is you're watching those wine bottles get lower

498
00:29:29,710 --> 00:29:33,230
Speaker 1: and lower in the morning. You eventually just kind of

499
00:29:33,350 --> 00:29:38,770
Speaker 1: stop counting. And so pick up your story from that point.

500
00:29:38,850 --> 00:29:41,580
Speaker 1: Where does it go from there? there? We'll be right

501
00:29:41,620 --> 00:29:42,240
Speaker 1: back after this.

502
00:29:45,580 --> 00:29:49,469
Speaker 2: Well, again, there's so many details, but I'm just going

503
00:29:49,490 --> 00:29:53,680
Speaker 2: to fast forward into where it just, again, I hit

504
00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:56,100
Speaker 2: the wall. And it was, and it always, it also

505
00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:59,780
Speaker 2: speaks to me with the inability to say no. I

506
00:30:00,460 --> 00:30:03,940
Speaker 2: was so afraid to say, I can't do this. I

507
00:30:03,980 --> 00:30:07,260
Speaker 2: just would power through, but alcohol was always on board

508
00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:12,820
Speaker 2: to help me power through. And I was actually, well,

509
00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:15,560
Speaker 2: let me, before I do that, because I have to

510
00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:18,240
Speaker 2: describe the moment. It was leading up to being in

511
00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:23,690
Speaker 2: someone's wedding. And it was, I had always had this

512
00:30:24,270 --> 00:30:27,130
Speaker 2: little bit of knowledge of like when you when your

513
00:30:27,170 --> 00:30:30,730
Speaker 2: liver had enough, that color yellow popped up. And I

514
00:30:30,730 --> 00:30:33,470
Speaker 2: always talked about people and their eyes. And, you know,

515
00:30:33,950 --> 00:30:37,690
Speaker 2: so I would for a long time. And again, this

516
00:30:37,790 --> 00:30:40,990
Speaker 2: is where I was living in both worlds where I

517
00:30:41,070 --> 00:30:44,730
Speaker 2: knew deep down I was getting my like trouble was coming.

518
00:30:45,580 --> 00:30:48,670
Speaker 2: But living life like there was no issue. Always trying

519
00:30:48,690 --> 00:30:51,630
Speaker 2: to moderate. Always trying to put rules that never worked.

520
00:30:53,430 --> 00:30:55,530
Speaker 2: And I'll never forget, I was in the parking lot

521
00:30:56,010 --> 00:30:59,700
Speaker 2: of work. And again, picture fully working all the time.

522
00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:03,360
Speaker 2: Not at home, drowning in a bottle and all that stuff.

523
00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:06,320
Speaker 1: Not living under a bridge, having squandered all your money. Yes.

524
00:31:08,170 --> 00:31:11,930
Speaker 2: Living in my home, all this stuff. And I'll never forget,

525
00:31:11,970 --> 00:31:14,450
Speaker 2: I pulled down, like looked in the rearview mirror and

526
00:31:14,510 --> 00:31:19,610
Speaker 2: pulled my eye down and saw yellow. And that was

527
00:31:19,650 --> 00:31:23,110
Speaker 2: the first time I've ever really experienced when someone like,

528
00:31:23,170 --> 00:31:26,670
Speaker 2: you know, your blood ran cold. My blood ran cold.

529
00:31:26,710 --> 00:31:33,450
Speaker 2: Like it was this whoosh of... Absolute panic, fear, what

530
00:31:33,490 --> 00:31:38,730
Speaker 2: have I done? How do I backtrack? But at that point,

531
00:31:38,930 --> 00:31:41,630
Speaker 2: you know, I was so stuck. It was like, you know,

532
00:31:42,570 --> 00:31:45,670
Speaker 2: also what job had I, what do I do when

533
00:31:45,770 --> 00:31:50,990
Speaker 2: I'm feeling scared or stressed? I drink. And so obviously

534
00:31:51,010 --> 00:31:54,450
Speaker 2: I was going into being in a wedding that weekend.

535
00:31:54,890 --> 00:31:57,610
Speaker 2: You think because I saw yellow, you know, I'm going

536
00:31:57,630 --> 00:32:01,820
Speaker 2: to like, hey, I can't do this. That did not happen.

537
00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:04,060
Speaker 2: I was like, I'm going to push through. I'm going

538
00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:07,140
Speaker 2: to push through and fix this, which was the story

539
00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:10,350
Speaker 2: of my life, y'all, for years. Let me get through

540
00:32:10,420 --> 00:32:13,530
Speaker 2: this thing and then I'm going to address this and

541
00:32:13,610 --> 00:32:15,830
Speaker 2: then I'm going to fix this. And so it was

542
00:32:15,870 --> 00:32:18,710
Speaker 2: like this after the wedding, I'm going to fix this.

543
00:32:19,730 --> 00:32:22,790
Speaker 2: And I still cannot believe I was actually in that wedding.

544
00:32:23,210 --> 00:32:27,719
Speaker 2: And after that, thank goodness, one of the people, you know,

545
00:32:27,740 --> 00:32:31,390
Speaker 2: I was dating at the time and The people getting married, too,

546
00:32:31,450 --> 00:32:35,030
Speaker 2: it was all physicians. So I'm around medical professionals. And

547
00:32:35,690 --> 00:32:38,550
Speaker 2: my boyfriend, now husband, God love him at the time,

548
00:32:39,910 --> 00:32:43,040
Speaker 2: is a physician. And so they knew something was wrong

549
00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:46,720
Speaker 2: with me. And that's when I was very fearful because

550
00:32:47,620 --> 00:32:51,360
Speaker 2: I wasn't drinking a lot. I was just really tired

551
00:32:52,300 --> 00:32:57,190
Speaker 2: and just wanted to sleep. At the wedding? They took Yes.

552
00:32:57,290 --> 00:32:59,930
Speaker 2: So I left the reception. I didn't even again, people

553
00:32:59,970 --> 00:33:02,130
Speaker 2: think I'm like I was partying leading up to this. No,

554
00:33:02,270 --> 00:33:04,600
Speaker 2: like it's not. That's not what it looked like. I,

555
00:33:05,470 --> 00:33:08,190
Speaker 2: you know, had actually decreased quite a bit. It's just

556
00:33:08,260 --> 00:33:12,460
Speaker 2: and it happened like very quickly for my body. And

557
00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:14,860
Speaker 2: I didn't realize at the time that was my liver

558
00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:22,280
Speaker 2: like not working. And so I went to a local

559
00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:27,980
Speaker 2: emergency room. And from there, they took me by ambulance

560
00:33:28,500 --> 00:33:33,350
Speaker 2: to the big hospital in Charleston, South Carolina. And again, oh,

561
00:33:33,350 --> 00:33:37,850
Speaker 2: I think about that time because, again, it was everything

562
00:33:37,870 --> 00:33:40,520
Speaker 2: was happening so fast. And my story that I had

563
00:33:40,540 --> 00:33:44,340
Speaker 2: been working so hard to control, my narrative, everything, everything

564
00:33:44,380 --> 00:33:47,700
Speaker 2: that I was trying to hide, like it was gone.

565
00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:50,940
Speaker 2: falling apart. Like, what do you mean you're going to

566
00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:52,660
Speaker 2: call my parents? My parents are going to find out.

567
00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:55,570
Speaker 2: You know, I just I didn't want anybody to know.

568
00:33:55,590 --> 00:34:01,150
Speaker 2: It was it was horrible. Not like I'm dying. It

569
00:34:01,190 --> 00:34:03,630
Speaker 2: was people are going to know. And that was that

570
00:34:03,650 --> 00:34:05,050
Speaker 2: was forefront on my mind.

571
00:34:05,690 --> 00:34:08,629
Speaker 1: I'm curious. You had said you had, you know, kind

572
00:34:08,650 --> 00:34:11,220
Speaker 1: of cut back, but I'm curious how much, you know,

573
00:34:11,300 --> 00:34:13,779
Speaker 1: when you start noticing the yellow in your eyes, how

574
00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:15,259
Speaker 1: much were you drinking at that point?

575
00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:20,469
Speaker 2: You know, again, again, I'm asked this question and when

576
00:34:20,510 --> 00:34:24,430
Speaker 2: I tell you, I do not know the exact amount.

577
00:34:25,010 --> 00:34:28,090
Speaker 2: And here's why I'm always hesitant to talk about real

578
00:34:28,140 --> 00:34:33,020
Speaker 2: specifics is over the years, I've seen that we get

579
00:34:33,060 --> 00:34:38,040
Speaker 2: into the comparison game with drinking. And it's almost dangerous

580
00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:42,770
Speaker 2: sometimes because if I go into the exact amount, then

581
00:34:42,810 --> 00:34:46,350
Speaker 2: people will be like, well, I'm good. Because I'm not

582
00:34:46,430 --> 00:34:48,850
Speaker 2: doing that. And one of the biggest things that I

583
00:34:48,930 --> 00:34:56,140
Speaker 2: learned from my amazing physicians was there is no formula

584
00:34:56,860 --> 00:35:02,000
Speaker 2: of you had this, so now you get this. And

585
00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:04,479
Speaker 2: it's actually infuriating for them because there are some people

586
00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:06,919
Speaker 2: that should have been in that bed. I had never

587
00:35:07,020 --> 00:35:11,290
Speaker 2: presented before with liver issues. I had never You know,

588
00:35:11,310 --> 00:35:13,850
Speaker 2: it was just like that first time and bam, my

589
00:35:13,890 --> 00:35:17,740
Speaker 2: body said, no, ma'am, that's done. I mean, I did

590
00:35:17,780 --> 00:35:20,910
Speaker 2: the progression of, I was never a beer. I was

591
00:35:20,950 --> 00:35:27,360
Speaker 2: always wine because that was very sophisticated. And then shifted

592
00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:30,180
Speaker 2: to liquor. So I was drinking liquor at that point

593
00:35:30,260 --> 00:35:32,560
Speaker 2: because I could do, it would do more for me.

594
00:35:33,380 --> 00:35:36,400
Speaker 2: than the other. So I'd made that classic shift. And

595
00:35:36,420 --> 00:35:38,960
Speaker 2: I was, I was drinking entirely too much. So it's

596
00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:44,000
Speaker 2: a combination of truly not knowing an exact amount. But

597
00:35:44,060 --> 00:35:46,560
Speaker 2: it's also important for people to know I truly was

598
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:51,640
Speaker 2: living a full life with working and social life, you know,

599
00:35:51,700 --> 00:35:52,560
Speaker 2: when this happened.

600
00:35:52,980 --> 00:35:54,600
Speaker 1: And I think, you know, it's funny because you said

601
00:35:54,620 --> 00:35:56,360
Speaker 1: you had cut back. And that's why I asked the question,

602
00:35:56,440 --> 00:35:59,520
Speaker 1: not out of like, oh, were you drinking five bottles?

603
00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:01,940
Speaker 1: But I think it's interesting that if you were actually

604
00:36:01,980 --> 00:36:06,350
Speaker 1: drinking less than people expected and you could still have

605
00:36:06,430 --> 00:36:09,469
Speaker 1: liver problems. Like that's exactly right. Like I want to

606
00:36:09,590 --> 00:36:12,840
Speaker 1: break down that comparison game because I did that too, Carla.

607
00:36:12,860 --> 00:36:16,040
Speaker 1: Like I was like, well, I, I, I'm not doing

608
00:36:16,100 --> 00:36:18,940
Speaker 1: this or I'm not drinking like this or, or I'm

609
00:36:19,180 --> 00:36:22,680
Speaker 1: not X, Y, and Z. But the irony is I

610
00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:27,239
Speaker 1: just kept inching closer and closer to those lines and

611
00:36:27,660 --> 00:36:29,920
Speaker 1: And then I'd cross one of those lines and then

612
00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:33,899
Speaker 1: I'd always move the GoPulse, right? Like, well, okay, but

613
00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:36,180
Speaker 1: I can explain that away now, right? I can make

614
00:36:36,260 --> 00:36:39,210
Speaker 1: the cognitive dissonance, like can make that make sense. But

615
00:36:39,290 --> 00:36:42,450
Speaker 1: now at least I'm not doing this, right? Or I'm

616
00:36:42,510 --> 00:36:47,169
Speaker 1: not doing, like, I'm not, you know, I'm not going

617
00:36:47,230 --> 00:36:49,569
Speaker 1: to the gas station at eight in the morning and

618
00:36:49,630 --> 00:36:53,530
Speaker 1: buying like two, you know, steel reserves, you know? Yes.

619
00:36:53,950 --> 00:36:55,040
Speaker 2: I'm fine, right?

620
00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:58,270
Speaker 1: Now I'll have, you know, 10 at night, but that's,

621
00:36:58,330 --> 00:37:01,430
Speaker 1: you know, I'm good, right? So I think it's interesting

622
00:37:01,469 --> 00:37:04,130
Speaker 1: that if you're talking about, like, you would actually kind

623
00:37:04,170 --> 00:37:05,969
Speaker 1: of cut back and yet you still end up in

624
00:37:06,010 --> 00:37:08,880
Speaker 1: the hospital, right? It's like, that's good to know.

625
00:37:09,550 --> 00:37:11,640
Speaker 2: Well, and that's why I talk about it like that.

626
00:37:11,780 --> 00:37:15,180
Speaker 2: I want people to understand, like, I'm sure I was

627
00:37:15,219 --> 00:37:17,820
Speaker 2: drinking a lot less than people imagine. I was not

628
00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:21,980
Speaker 2: the I'm waking up and drinking person. I was not.

629
00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:26,470
Speaker 2: I was going to work. You know, I'm sure there

630
00:37:26,489 --> 00:37:29,300
Speaker 2: was a few lunch times that, you know, I partake.

631
00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:32,319
Speaker 2: And again, because it was that sophisticated, I'm working and

632
00:37:32,380 --> 00:37:35,960
Speaker 2: I can go to a restaurant, all of that. And it's,

633
00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:40,160
Speaker 2: but so I'm, I want to paint a picture of something.

634
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:43,870
Speaker 2: And so people can understand it's not always what you think.

635
00:37:44,250 --> 00:37:47,150
Speaker 2: And it is, it's very important that people know that

636
00:37:47,190 --> 00:37:51,390
Speaker 2: because it's a, it's a very dangerous dance. And we

637
00:37:51,810 --> 00:37:54,589
Speaker 2: never know when we push that goalpost that next time

638
00:37:54,610 --> 00:37:57,009
Speaker 2: because that's exactly what I was doing. Like, oh, at

639
00:37:57,030 --> 00:38:00,419
Speaker 2: the end of this, you know, I'm going to fix this.

640
00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:01,960
Speaker 2: I'm going to work on this. I'm going to talk

641
00:38:01,980 --> 00:38:05,600
Speaker 2: to somebody. And it's a dangerous game. And honestly, I

642
00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:09,040
Speaker 2: can tell in myself that's a part of my coaching

643
00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:13,630
Speaker 2: where I have to have some boundaries when people aren't listening.

644
00:38:13,670 --> 00:38:16,670
Speaker 2: And I can almost tell that they're pushing and it's

645
00:38:16,690 --> 00:38:18,709
Speaker 2: getting to a dangerous place. It brings up a lot

646
00:38:18,750 --> 00:38:23,050
Speaker 2: for me because I'm scared for them. you know, and

647
00:38:23,390 --> 00:38:26,910
Speaker 2: also I was that person too to call myself out.

648
00:38:27,050 --> 00:38:30,110
Speaker 2: I'll never get, it was probably a few years before

649
00:38:30,180 --> 00:38:32,420
Speaker 2: I went into liver failure. It was finding out someone

650
00:38:32,460 --> 00:38:36,040
Speaker 2: else that I had known, you know, that had gone

651
00:38:36,100 --> 00:38:39,839
Speaker 2: and actually passed away. And my first question was, how

652
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:42,180
Speaker 2: much was he drinking? And I knew what I was

653
00:38:42,219 --> 00:38:45,360
Speaker 2: trying to find out, you know, and that is looking

654
00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:47,719
Speaker 2: in the mirror. Look what I did. So I know

655
00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:51,580
Speaker 2: many times when people They're trying to formulate, okay, do

656
00:38:51,620 --> 00:38:53,670
Speaker 2: I have a problem? But you're exactly right too. It's

657
00:38:53,710 --> 00:38:56,190
Speaker 2: important for people to know it may not be the

658
00:38:56,250 --> 00:38:59,150
Speaker 2: number you think. And my doctor at the time was

659
00:38:59,170 --> 00:39:00,930
Speaker 2: telling me, she's like, it is so hard. I have

660
00:39:00,969 --> 00:39:04,960
Speaker 2: got people that should be in this bed and they're not.

661
00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:08,319
Speaker 2: But I also have a woman that was truly just

662
00:39:08,380 --> 00:39:11,060
Speaker 2: having two or three glasses of wine a night and

663
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:15,299
Speaker 2: her liver is completely shot. And so it depends on

664
00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:18,300
Speaker 2: the person. And that's where I think it's got it.

665
00:39:18,330 --> 00:39:21,310
Speaker 2: We've got to look at that total picture. And what

666
00:39:21,370 --> 00:39:24,339
Speaker 2: all I've learned now about the body and, you know,

667
00:39:24,580 --> 00:39:27,239
Speaker 2: the stress that I was going through, the anxiety, all

668
00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:30,770
Speaker 2: of that things with my body. I can't believe it

669
00:39:30,810 --> 00:39:34,330
Speaker 2: didn't happen sooner. And it really, that's not really the amount.

670
00:39:34,410 --> 00:39:38,180
Speaker 2: It's just knowing what alcohol is, knowing that, you know, fast,

671
00:39:38,489 --> 00:39:41,260
Speaker 2: like just constant lack of sleep, lack of good food,

672
00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:44,960
Speaker 2: lack of taking care of myself. My body just said,

673
00:39:44,980 --> 00:39:47,600
Speaker 2: I am done, girl. I cannot do this anymore.

674
00:39:47,620 --> 00:39:47,719
Speaker 1: Right.

675
00:39:48,550 --> 00:39:52,969
Speaker 2: And that is what happened. And I ended up in

676
00:39:53,010 --> 00:39:58,040
Speaker 2: the hospital. They did let me go because they were unsure.

677
00:39:58,980 --> 00:40:02,239
Speaker 2: But with the promise that I would get blood work

678
00:40:02,700 --> 00:40:07,330
Speaker 2: a few days from then. And so I'll never forget.

679
00:40:07,350 --> 00:40:10,410
Speaker 2: I had a friend pick me up to get the

680
00:40:10,450 --> 00:40:16,420
Speaker 2: blood work. I looked horrible. I do... Part of me wishes,

681
00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:18,779
Speaker 2: you know, I had been one of those, you know,

682
00:40:19,900 --> 00:40:23,020
Speaker 2: where I'd be vlogging everything and recording myself. But the

683
00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:26,660
Speaker 2: truth is, when you're in that space, selfies and pictures

684
00:40:26,719 --> 00:40:32,070
Speaker 2: are not on your radar. I do wish people know

685
00:40:32,130 --> 00:40:35,730
Speaker 2: because they're seeing a healthy version of me. And I

686
00:40:35,770 --> 00:40:38,569
Speaker 2: would love them to see what that really looked like.

687
00:40:38,610 --> 00:40:42,190
Speaker 2: It was horrible. And I got home from getting the

688
00:40:42,230 --> 00:40:46,480
Speaker 2: blood work. And not too long afterwards, and I was sleeping,

689
00:40:46,640 --> 00:40:50,140
Speaker 2: my phone was ringing, and I could tell it was Charleston,

690
00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:53,220
Speaker 2: and it was my doctor. It was actually the doctor

691
00:40:53,300 --> 00:40:56,690
Speaker 2: that wrote the foreword of the book, which the foreword

692
00:40:56,730 --> 00:41:00,009
Speaker 2: and the afterword are really special to me because it

693
00:41:00,190 --> 00:41:05,850
Speaker 2: was two women that are really special and important to me,

694
00:41:05,870 --> 00:41:08,450
Speaker 2: and they were really big in my story and helping me.

695
00:41:10,030 --> 00:41:11,840
Speaker 2: And they were both my doctors that took care of

696
00:41:11,890 --> 00:41:13,669
Speaker 2: me at the beginning and one that was taking care

697
00:41:13,690 --> 00:41:15,390
Speaker 2: of me at the end. So it was this beautiful,

698
00:41:16,150 --> 00:41:20,569
Speaker 2: you know, bookends of what happened. But you could read

699
00:41:20,610 --> 00:41:23,529
Speaker 2: the foreword and the afterward, and it's so powerful what

700
00:41:23,570 --> 00:41:26,890
Speaker 2: they say. But it was my doctor, Dr. Joplin, and

701
00:41:26,930 --> 00:41:30,649
Speaker 2: she asked if it was me. And she just said,

702
00:41:30,710 --> 00:41:34,310
Speaker 2: are you okay? And I said, I don't think, I

703
00:41:34,730 --> 00:41:37,690
Speaker 2: think I'm dying because I was asleep. I was just

704
00:41:37,770 --> 00:41:41,589
Speaker 2: so tired. And she said, I think you are too.

705
00:41:42,110 --> 00:41:47,739
Speaker 2: And what had happened is when you get critical lab values,

706
00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:51,020
Speaker 2: the doctors get notified very quickly. So you get bumped

707
00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:55,360
Speaker 2: up to the top. And again, that's my layperson description

708
00:41:55,380 --> 00:41:59,779
Speaker 2: of what happens to any medical professionals out there. But

709
00:42:00,420 --> 00:42:03,120
Speaker 2: it's a critical value. So this girl's in trouble. So

710
00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:06,060
Speaker 2: she called me. She got it right away and called

711
00:42:06,100 --> 00:42:10,230
Speaker 2: me right away. And it was like this wave of

712
00:42:10,810 --> 00:42:14,910
Speaker 2: no one had said death before, you know, no one

713
00:42:14,950 --> 00:42:19,940
Speaker 2: had said that to me. And then the next wave

714
00:42:19,980 --> 00:42:22,840
Speaker 2: of like just how serious this was, because I live

715
00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:29,020
Speaker 2: probably an hour and a half from that hospital in Charleston.

716
00:42:29,180 --> 00:42:32,380
Speaker 2: And she said, can you get here? If you can't,

717
00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:34,859
Speaker 2: I'm going to send an ambulance to you. And that

718
00:42:34,900 --> 00:42:38,350
Speaker 2: was the next wave. just talking about it. It doesn't

719
00:42:38,390 --> 00:42:43,660
Speaker 2: matter how many times, like it just, again, all I

720
00:42:43,700 --> 00:42:46,520
Speaker 2: can think picture out is just all the spinning plates.

721
00:42:46,780 --> 00:42:48,719
Speaker 2: I had been trying to spin all these plates and

722
00:42:48,760 --> 00:42:51,640
Speaker 2: pretend that I was fined and everything was crashing down.

723
00:42:53,140 --> 00:42:57,839
Speaker 2: My parents came immediately. And I'll, I mean, I remember asked,

724
00:42:57,900 --> 00:43:00,520
Speaker 2: like telling my dad's dad, she thinks I'm dying. And

725
00:43:00,580 --> 00:43:02,219
Speaker 2: he just looked at me. He's like, well, you can

726
00:43:02,260 --> 00:43:04,980
Speaker 2: also live. And I want you to focus on living.

727
00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:07,460
Speaker 2: And that was just a really powerful moment with my

728
00:43:07,500 --> 00:43:12,640
Speaker 2: dad and I. And I went to the hospital and

729
00:43:12,660 --> 00:43:15,850
Speaker 2: that's where it was truly. And this is why I

730
00:43:15,890 --> 00:43:18,709
Speaker 2: tell my story too, John. Like it, there was many

731
00:43:18,770 --> 00:43:21,430
Speaker 2: things that motivated me to write the book. You know,

732
00:43:22,330 --> 00:43:26,190
Speaker 2: COVID was the big kicker, was the book because it

733
00:43:26,230 --> 00:43:30,690
Speaker 2: was seeing everybody and use alcohol during that time. And

734
00:43:30,730 --> 00:43:33,540
Speaker 2: it was like this acceptance and it scared me. And

735
00:43:33,760 --> 00:43:36,660
Speaker 2: we do now have data to see. And it was true.

736
00:43:36,760 --> 00:43:41,299
Speaker 2: Like people were dying and young women were like the

737
00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:43,799
Speaker 2: fastest on the rise. And I felt this need to

738
00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:47,200
Speaker 2: share my story, to warn people, like, please don't be me.

739
00:43:47,840 --> 00:43:52,890
Speaker 2: Because during that hospital stay, it is truly, it's a

740
00:43:53,010 --> 00:43:55,350
Speaker 2: waiting game. There was nothing they were going to be

741
00:43:55,390 --> 00:44:00,450
Speaker 2: able to do. If my liver stopped working, Like, they

742
00:44:00,510 --> 00:44:03,090
Speaker 2: couldn't do anything. They could try and give me fluids.

743
00:44:03,170 --> 00:44:06,310
Speaker 2: They could try and do whatever they could to keep

744
00:44:06,350 --> 00:44:08,850
Speaker 2: me stable. But it was just a game of seeing,

745
00:44:08,910 --> 00:44:11,190
Speaker 2: getting blood work every day and seeing, are her numbers

746
00:44:11,210 --> 00:44:15,540
Speaker 2: getting worse or is she improving? And I tell that

747
00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:19,060
Speaker 2: because I've had a circumstance, you know, since doing this

748
00:44:19,160 --> 00:44:23,950
Speaker 2: where I've I saw, I met with someone and I knew,

749
00:44:24,010 --> 00:44:26,110
Speaker 2: and it's like I saw my face in her face.

750
00:44:26,469 --> 00:44:28,830
Speaker 2: Like I, it was me, like, and I knew she

751
00:44:28,870 --> 00:44:33,640
Speaker 2: was in trouble. Again, someone that was very social, you know,

752
00:44:33,660 --> 00:44:36,960
Speaker 2: you looked like she had it all together. She was

753
00:44:37,020 --> 00:44:40,680
Speaker 2: going through very difficult things and she was moving that goalpost.

754
00:44:41,100 --> 00:44:43,000
Speaker 2: She was saying, let me just get through that. I'm

755
00:44:43,020 --> 00:44:45,739
Speaker 2: going to get through this divorce. And when I get

756
00:44:45,780 --> 00:44:48,470
Speaker 2: through this divorce, I will, I'm then going to come

757
00:44:48,830 --> 00:44:51,440
Speaker 2: and let's work on this. And I told her this

758
00:44:51,480 --> 00:44:53,180
Speaker 2: story and I'm so glad I did because I know

759
00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:55,469
Speaker 2: I would have regretted it if I didn't about that

760
00:44:55,550 --> 00:44:58,750
Speaker 2: waiting game. And I hate to say that, but that

761
00:44:58,810 --> 00:45:01,850
Speaker 2: beautiful young lady is no longer with us because the

762
00:45:01,930 --> 00:45:05,410
Speaker 2: same thing happened. Like she, again, went into failure and

763
00:45:06,130 --> 00:45:08,259
Speaker 2: her body just didn't have what it took to be

764
00:45:08,320 --> 00:45:11,080
Speaker 2: able to come out of it. And so, you know,

765
00:45:11,100 --> 00:45:13,460
Speaker 2: at 50 years old, you know, she's gone.

766
00:45:13,480 --> 00:45:13,550
Speaker 1: Wow.

767
00:45:14,850 --> 00:45:20,950
Speaker 2: That is the driver behind me sharing the details of this,

768
00:45:21,690 --> 00:45:24,390
Speaker 2: my eyes being yellow, me drinking too much. And again,

769
00:45:24,430 --> 00:45:26,950
Speaker 2: in the book, I share all kinds of details that

770
00:45:26,969 --> 00:45:30,150
Speaker 2: I hope people that they can see themselves or also

771
00:45:30,550 --> 00:45:33,750
Speaker 2: see a family member where you might be feeling angry

772
00:45:33,790 --> 00:45:37,029
Speaker 2: and frustrated towards them right now. I hope that that

773
00:45:37,070 --> 00:45:40,589
Speaker 2: can bring you some insight of what it's like being

774
00:45:40,780 --> 00:45:43,130
Speaker 2: in those shoes and and wanting to do better. You

775
00:45:43,350 --> 00:45:47,870
Speaker 2: just didn't have the tools to do it. So, and again,

776
00:45:47,890 --> 00:45:52,890
Speaker 2: and it's difficult because I think even writing the book

777
00:45:53,489 --> 00:45:57,200
Speaker 2: brought up just how, I forget how touch and go

778
00:45:57,380 --> 00:45:58,920
Speaker 2: it was there for a while.

779
00:45:58,940 --> 00:46:04,220
Speaker 1: Okay, so you then, okay, you go to the hospital,

780
00:46:05,380 --> 00:46:09,459
Speaker 1: you know, the blood work comes back, there's talk about,

781
00:46:10,920 --> 00:46:15,520
Speaker 1: You're literally dying. What happens from there? And how do

782
00:46:15,719 --> 00:46:18,280
Speaker 1: you start addressing this addiction?

783
00:46:19,360 --> 00:46:23,110
Speaker 2: Well, here's the thing. And again, this is what is

784
00:46:23,230 --> 00:46:26,410
Speaker 2: super important to talk about. But man, was it hard

785
00:46:26,450 --> 00:46:28,370
Speaker 2: for me to talk about in the book. Like even

786
00:46:28,570 --> 00:46:32,489
Speaker 2: like writing it, I wanted to shake myself. Because like

787
00:46:33,130 --> 00:46:37,810
Speaker 2: it was... Writing all of these, the chapters leading up,

788
00:46:38,190 --> 00:46:41,069
Speaker 2: you know, Yellow was probably one of my favorite. I

789
00:46:41,090 --> 00:46:43,090
Speaker 2: felt it as I wrote it. It was the buildup

790
00:46:43,170 --> 00:46:46,070
Speaker 2: before the fall. And then, you know, the hospital stay.

791
00:46:46,170 --> 00:46:50,100
Speaker 2: And then they sent me on my way. Like, hey,

792
00:46:50,680 --> 00:46:54,500
Speaker 2: don't drink. And you can't drink. And, you know, there's

793
00:46:54,880 --> 00:46:58,200
Speaker 2: programs out there that you can do. And in that time, John,

794
00:46:58,340 --> 00:47:01,549
Speaker 2: I'm thinking, I'm never, I'm good. I'm never going to

795
00:47:01,590 --> 00:47:04,250
Speaker 2: drink again. I'm good. Why would I ever drink again?

796
00:47:04,270 --> 00:47:05,850
Speaker 1: This is the wake-up call. I'm good.

797
00:47:06,010 --> 00:47:10,950
Speaker 2: Yes. This is what I needed. I, you know, I'm good.

798
00:47:11,360 --> 00:47:16,780
Speaker 2: And I was not. I did good for a while. And,

799
00:47:17,260 --> 00:47:18,940
Speaker 2: but the next chapter that I had to write, I

800
00:47:18,980 --> 00:47:21,500
Speaker 2: wanted to look at myself and go seriously because I

801
00:47:21,520 --> 00:47:24,300
Speaker 2: had to write about going back, going back to drinking.

802
00:47:24,690 --> 00:47:30,750
Speaker 2: And again, Knowing what I know now, it was completely inevitable.

803
00:47:30,930 --> 00:47:35,450
Speaker 2: I wasn't addressing any of the underneath of why I

804
00:47:35,489 --> 00:47:39,790
Speaker 2: was drinking in the first place. I wasn't understanding, you know,

805
00:47:40,450 --> 00:47:43,730
Speaker 2: what the substance was. I was truly in that mindset.

806
00:47:43,930 --> 00:47:48,049
Speaker 2: I just can't. I'm not going to. But if I

807
00:47:48,110 --> 00:47:52,120
Speaker 2: was being truthful with people, again, I don't remember time

808
00:47:52,160 --> 00:47:54,900
Speaker 2: frame because it was several months. I mean, that I

809
00:47:54,980 --> 00:47:58,180
Speaker 2: was alcohol free. But there was, I'll never forget, I

810
00:47:58,320 --> 00:48:01,540
Speaker 2: was like a thought popped in my head. Well, one day,

811
00:48:02,180 --> 00:48:04,819
Speaker 2: you know, I'll just have a glass of wine with dinner.

812
00:48:05,219 --> 00:48:07,759
Speaker 2: I didn't share that with anybody. That was just like

813
00:48:07,840 --> 00:48:11,340
Speaker 2: this little thought that popped up in my head. And

814
00:48:11,360 --> 00:48:13,799
Speaker 2: I just kind of kept to myself and just like, yeah,

815
00:48:13,820 --> 00:48:15,759
Speaker 2: you know, one day, one day, I'm just going to

816
00:48:16,239 --> 00:48:19,819
Speaker 2: keep doing this. Because thank goodness, that's what stopped me.

817
00:48:19,969 --> 00:48:23,109
Speaker 2: I don't like have this problem. I don't have, you know,

818
00:48:23,570 --> 00:48:25,870
Speaker 2: I clearly was stressed out. I had all this stuff.

819
00:48:26,350 --> 00:48:29,430
Speaker 2: going on and just needed to stop for a while.

820
00:48:29,710 --> 00:48:30,649
Speaker 2: And so I'm going to do that.

821
00:48:30,750 --> 00:48:31,270
Speaker 1: Just to reset.

822
00:48:31,290 --> 00:48:34,589
Speaker 2: Taking a break. Yeah. Taking a break. Again, mind you,

823
00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:37,219
Speaker 2: I think it's very interesting. I didn't express that to

824
00:48:37,280 --> 00:48:40,540
Speaker 2: people because I think I knew what the response would be,

825
00:48:40,620 --> 00:48:44,700
Speaker 2: but I want to share that because that is what

826
00:48:44,739 --> 00:48:47,910
Speaker 2: it looks like. And I want people to talk about

827
00:48:47,950 --> 00:48:51,469
Speaker 2: those thoughts more because those thoughts, those shame, like I

828
00:48:51,650 --> 00:48:53,719
Speaker 2: don't want to tell, those If we don't just say

829
00:48:53,760 --> 00:48:55,259
Speaker 2: it out loud, I'm like, can you believe I just

830
00:48:55,300 --> 00:48:57,980
Speaker 2: thought of that? Like, have a space to share that

831
00:48:58,000 --> 00:49:02,160
Speaker 2: and peel it back. Like, it takes root. And then

832
00:49:02,180 --> 00:49:04,200
Speaker 2: the next one comes and it's like, oh, but it

833
00:49:04,219 --> 00:49:06,830
Speaker 2: wouldn't be that bad. And it's like that you're lying.

834
00:49:06,910 --> 00:49:10,650
Speaker 2: It's like the lies that we tell ourself. You know,

835
00:49:10,730 --> 00:49:13,330
Speaker 2: two weeks before I hit my rock bottom, I went

836
00:49:13,370 --> 00:49:16,009
Speaker 2: on a retreat with my wife. And, you know, it

837
00:49:16,050 --> 00:49:19,830
Speaker 2: was an amazing spiritual experience. And I admitted I'm an alcoholic.

838
00:49:21,200 --> 00:49:25,439
Speaker 2: And I stopped drinking for two weeks. And same thing.

839
00:49:25,800 --> 00:49:27,780
Speaker 2: You know, I don't know when in that two weeks,

840
00:49:28,080 --> 00:49:30,620
Speaker 2: but towards the end of that two weeks, I tell myself, well,

841
00:49:31,440 --> 00:49:34,759
Speaker 2: if I'm really an alcoholic, I wouldn't be able to

842
00:49:34,820 --> 00:49:35,719
Speaker 2: stop for two weeks.

843
00:49:36,090 --> 00:49:41,009
Speaker 1: You know? Right. I wouldn't be able to just, you know. Now,

844
00:49:41,230 --> 00:49:43,609
Speaker 1: did I have some withdrawal symptoms? Yes. But I'm like, well,

845
00:49:43,630 --> 00:49:45,770
Speaker 1: those aren't the major withdrawal symptoms.

846
00:49:46,030 --> 00:49:46,490
Speaker 2: Right.

847
00:49:46,550 --> 00:49:48,069
Speaker 1: I didn't have the shakes. So then.

848
00:49:48,170 --> 00:49:48,490
Speaker 2: Right.

849
00:49:48,610 --> 00:49:52,149
Speaker 1: Right. And and, you know, so I tell myself, hey,

850
00:49:52,730 --> 00:49:55,150
Speaker 1: I my wife and I are going on a on

851
00:49:55,170 --> 00:49:59,270
Speaker 1: an anniversary trip to Miami. I can drink on the trip.

852
00:49:59,650 --> 00:50:02,830
Speaker 1: I'll just treat myself on the trip and that will

853
00:50:02,850 --> 00:50:05,110
Speaker 1: be fine. And then, you know, I end up, you know,

854
00:50:05,510 --> 00:50:07,430
Speaker 1: going to the bathroom all over myself in the ocean

855
00:50:07,450 --> 00:50:11,000
Speaker 1: at 1 a.m., you know. Right. in South Beach, Miami

856
00:50:11,020 --> 00:50:13,969
Speaker 1: by myself. Right. So it's like, it's like, yes, we

857
00:50:14,030 --> 00:50:17,310
Speaker 1: tell ourselves those lies and they start creeping in really,

858
00:50:17,330 --> 00:50:20,510
Speaker 1: really just, you know, sneakily. Right.

859
00:50:20,630 --> 00:50:23,109
Speaker 2: And they gain power when we keep it in the darkness.

860
00:50:23,160 --> 00:50:24,859
Speaker 2: And we talk about that, too, like what we keep

861
00:50:24,900 --> 00:50:27,440
Speaker 2: in the dark. And so I'm the biggest fan of

862
00:50:27,480 --> 00:50:30,340
Speaker 2: like when those thoughts pop up, speak it out loud.

863
00:50:30,500 --> 00:50:33,560
Speaker 2: I mean, just like, Lee, this is what I just thought.

864
00:50:34,040 --> 00:50:36,540
Speaker 2: And in my coaching world, what I always say, talk

865
00:50:36,580 --> 00:50:38,800
Speaker 2: about those thoughts, because that is giving a piece of

866
00:50:38,840 --> 00:50:41,850
Speaker 2: the puzzle of where you still are kind of hanging on.

867
00:50:42,530 --> 00:50:46,130
Speaker 2: to where alcohol still serves me in some way. And

868
00:50:46,170 --> 00:50:48,650
Speaker 2: so all it is, is giving you information. Don't be

869
00:50:48,690 --> 00:50:51,830
Speaker 2: scared of it. That thought is actually going to come.

870
00:50:52,090 --> 00:50:55,450
Speaker 2: Expect it. You know, it is going to come. You

871
00:50:55,489 --> 00:50:58,009
Speaker 2: getting that thought, this is where I get one of

872
00:50:58,050 --> 00:51:02,500
Speaker 2: my favorite, you know, football scenarios. You're getting the play

873
00:51:02,540 --> 00:51:05,479
Speaker 2: in advance so you know how to tackle it. Like, so,

874
00:51:06,000 --> 00:51:08,219
Speaker 2: and it's just getting some help of learning how to,

875
00:51:08,660 --> 00:51:10,880
Speaker 2: you know, so it could be, again, that was like

876
00:51:10,940 --> 00:51:14,830
Speaker 2: a romanticized, but like, thought when my, my first one, like,

877
00:51:14,870 --> 00:51:17,730
Speaker 2: let me just during vacation or I was, it's nice dinner.

878
00:51:17,750 --> 00:51:20,029
Speaker 2: It was never a nice dinner. I went and picked

879
00:51:20,070 --> 00:51:22,029
Speaker 2: up a bottle of wine and drank by myself. That's

880
00:51:22,070 --> 00:51:25,110
Speaker 2: exactly what it looked like. And that's the key is

881
00:51:25,150 --> 00:51:29,029
Speaker 2: like looking at that. But what happened was I, you know,

882
00:51:29,489 --> 00:51:33,219
Speaker 2: picked up like this drink and the, the kicker of

883
00:51:33,300 --> 00:51:37,480
Speaker 2: what did it was I was getting sick again. I

884
00:51:38,719 --> 00:51:42,030
Speaker 2: was not drinking. My body was, there was something going on.

885
00:51:42,620 --> 00:51:44,980
Speaker 2: My doctor at the time was like, I want you

886
00:51:45,000 --> 00:51:47,200
Speaker 2: to get to the hospital, get some scans right now.

887
00:51:47,300 --> 00:51:51,090
Speaker 2: Don't even bother coming here. Go to yours. And I

888
00:51:51,130 --> 00:51:53,350
Speaker 2: want to see what's going on and get blood work.

889
00:51:53,510 --> 00:51:56,989
Speaker 2: I thought for sure, like, this was it for me.

890
00:51:57,290 --> 00:51:59,150
Speaker 2: You know, I was over. But it turns out I

891
00:51:59,210 --> 00:52:04,299
Speaker 2: had this horrible, like, case of mono. So, which is

892
00:52:04,380 --> 00:52:07,160
Speaker 2: very interesting and why I share it. Because, again, I

893
00:52:07,800 --> 00:52:10,480
Speaker 2: can say this out loud now, like, and just hear

894
00:52:10,540 --> 00:52:13,430
Speaker 2: the ridiculousness of it. But when you're in the moment,

895
00:52:13,469 --> 00:52:16,040
Speaker 2: you will do anything. And Google will tell you exactly

896
00:52:16,100 --> 00:52:18,600
Speaker 2: what you want to hear, y'all. It really will. So

897
00:52:19,580 --> 00:52:21,900
Speaker 2: I Googled and it told me that it can cause

898
00:52:21,940 --> 00:52:25,500
Speaker 2: liver issues. And so I was like, see, that's what

899
00:52:25,540 --> 00:52:29,540
Speaker 2: was wrong. That's what was wrong like that whole time.

900
00:52:30,520 --> 00:52:36,360
Speaker 2: And it was, again, y'all, just so you know, listening,

901
00:52:36,480 --> 00:52:41,150
Speaker 2: I am, I hear it now. Then though, Again, but

902
00:52:41,190 --> 00:52:42,969
Speaker 2: we have to talk about this. It's that little thing

903
00:52:43,010 --> 00:52:45,220
Speaker 2: of like, see, that's what it was. My brain was

904
00:52:45,260 --> 00:52:47,940
Speaker 2: making the excuse because at the end of the day,

905
00:52:48,600 --> 00:52:51,480
Speaker 2: I still thought alcohol did all of these things for me.

906
00:52:51,600 --> 00:52:53,880
Speaker 2: It helped me with my anxiety. It made me confident.

907
00:52:53,980 --> 00:52:56,580
Speaker 2: It helped me celebrate. It was nice. It was all

908
00:52:56,600 --> 00:53:00,469
Speaker 2: of these amazing things. And so I wanted to get

909
00:53:00,510 --> 00:53:03,690
Speaker 2: to be able to do that. And so she told

910
00:53:03,730 --> 00:53:06,330
Speaker 2: me what it was. And that was like, I'm going

911
00:53:06,350 --> 00:53:09,069
Speaker 2: to go pick up a nice bottle of wine and

912
00:53:09,800 --> 00:53:12,839
Speaker 2: And that's what kicked back. And that was the slipperiest

913
00:53:12,880 --> 00:53:15,560
Speaker 2: slope I have ever stepped on in my life. Like

914
00:53:15,719 --> 00:53:21,740
Speaker 2: that few glasses of wine went straight back into drinking

915
00:53:21,860 --> 00:53:26,529
Speaker 2: on a regular basis. The wine got, it went from

916
00:53:26,570 --> 00:53:28,450
Speaker 2: a little bit to a lot. There's a hole in

917
00:53:28,469 --> 00:53:31,130
Speaker 2: the bottom of the glass kind of thing. Yes. And

918
00:53:31,150 --> 00:53:35,570
Speaker 2: it was not enough. And then I'm sure what sparked

919
00:53:35,610 --> 00:53:39,460
Speaker 2: that too was this absolute shame of going, I can't

920
00:53:39,500 --> 00:53:42,459
Speaker 2: tell anybody that I'm stuck again. How can I tell

921
00:53:42,620 --> 00:53:46,180
Speaker 2: anybody that I'm stuck again when look what just happened,

922
00:53:46,480 --> 00:53:47,239
Speaker 2: you know, to me.

923
00:53:48,219 --> 00:53:51,810
Speaker 1: And how long, how long had you kind of quit

924
00:53:52,210 --> 00:53:53,510
Speaker 1: drinking in that period?

925
00:53:56,030 --> 00:53:58,410
Speaker 2: It had been a few, it had been probably a month,

926
00:53:58,469 --> 00:54:01,330
Speaker 2: a few months. And so it had been, it had

927
00:54:01,370 --> 00:54:03,759
Speaker 2: been some time again, which gave me this false thing

928
00:54:03,780 --> 00:54:07,440
Speaker 2: of that. I was, I could do this. Right. Um,

929
00:54:08,610 --> 00:54:11,549
Speaker 2: But again, it just, it went back so quickly and

930
00:54:11,570 --> 00:54:13,110
Speaker 2: I went straight back to hiding.

931
00:54:13,140 --> 00:54:17,439
Speaker 1: So did anyone know that you had started drinking again

932
00:54:17,460 --> 00:54:20,319
Speaker 1: or were you just like, oh, you let people know

933
00:54:20,360 --> 00:54:23,630
Speaker 1: maybe a glass or you were completely hiding all of it?

934
00:54:23,870 --> 00:54:29,790
Speaker 2: Completely hiding it. Completely silent, hiding it from the world.

935
00:54:31,310 --> 00:54:33,950
Speaker 1: And, um, what did that look like? I mean, is

936
00:54:33,969 --> 00:54:36,450
Speaker 1: that like sneaky? No, you know, is that, Hey, I'm

937
00:54:36,489 --> 00:54:38,850
Speaker 1: buying it. And then I'm just drinking it in the closet. Or,

938
00:54:39,010 --> 00:54:40,930
Speaker 1: I mean, are you married at this time? Like what,

939
00:54:40,989 --> 00:54:42,850
Speaker 1: what does that look? We'll be right back after this.

940
00:54:46,280 --> 00:54:48,180
Speaker 2: Yeah. So I had during, I was going to say

941
00:54:48,219 --> 00:54:50,819
Speaker 2: during that time I had gotten married. And so God

942
00:54:50,840 --> 00:54:52,899
Speaker 2: bless my heart. I'm married to one of the best

943
00:54:52,980 --> 00:55:01,640
Speaker 2: people on this planet. Um, he's truly, truly an amazing man. And, um, he,

944
00:55:01,680 --> 00:55:04,339
Speaker 2: we got married, you know, during this time. And so

945
00:55:04,420 --> 00:55:08,060
Speaker 2: what that looked like was just sneaking. It was exactly that.

946
00:55:08,300 --> 00:55:10,819
Speaker 2: It was having it hidden somewhere in a closet and

947
00:55:10,910 --> 00:55:13,730
Speaker 2: excusing myself to go to a room like, and like

948
00:55:13,770 --> 00:55:17,810
Speaker 2: going in. I don't know. Again, I'll have to actually,

949
00:55:17,850 --> 00:55:20,649
Speaker 2: it's a good question to ask people because did they

950
00:55:20,750 --> 00:55:23,029
Speaker 2: actually know, did I think I was just getting away

951
00:55:23,070 --> 00:55:25,540
Speaker 2: with stuff? I do think people in my life would

952
00:55:25,560 --> 00:55:30,009
Speaker 2: have said something to me. Um, But it was, you know,

953
00:55:30,090 --> 00:55:33,049
Speaker 2: having it in a cup and people not knowing, you know.

954
00:55:33,469 --> 00:55:38,060
Speaker 2: And it was just this, again, it was a full-time job. Because,

955
00:55:38,080 --> 00:55:42,759
Speaker 2: and again, going back to my anxiety, it caused so much,

956
00:55:42,780 --> 00:55:46,160
Speaker 2: that hiding thing, it caused so much more anxiety. Do

957
00:55:46,200 --> 00:55:49,920
Speaker 2: people know? Could they tell? Just like I was ridden. Yes.

958
00:55:50,820 --> 00:55:56,350
Speaker 2: With the fear and thoughts and the anxiety. Dr. Allen,

959
00:55:56,469 --> 00:55:58,509
Speaker 2: who wrote the afterword of my book, I say it

960
00:55:58,570 --> 00:56:02,050
Speaker 2: was just total God wink in my life that she then,

961
00:56:02,070 --> 00:56:05,989
Speaker 2: you know, came into the area. And my job at

962
00:56:06,030 --> 00:56:08,670
Speaker 2: the time was working at a hospital. I was working

963
00:56:08,910 --> 00:56:12,050
Speaker 2: with physicians and introduced like, so if a new physician

964
00:56:12,090 --> 00:56:14,700
Speaker 2: would come to the area, I would network them with

965
00:56:14,739 --> 00:56:17,760
Speaker 2: the other doctors, like who would their referral sources be

966
00:56:17,820 --> 00:56:22,000
Speaker 2: and that sort of thing. And I met Dr. Sarah Allen,

967
00:56:22,080 --> 00:56:28,140
Speaker 2: and she is just a spitfire, amazing, brilliant, brilliant doctor.

968
00:56:28,370 --> 00:56:30,210
Speaker 2: And I just know I was supposed to meet her.

969
00:56:32,210 --> 00:56:35,009
Speaker 2: And I went purposely in her office one day because

970
00:56:35,050 --> 00:56:36,830
Speaker 2: I knew I was in trouble. I knew I was

971
00:56:36,890 --> 00:56:40,839
Speaker 2: in trouble. You know, there were signs back that my

972
00:56:40,910 --> 00:56:44,640
Speaker 2: liver was not good. And so I went into her

973
00:56:45,140 --> 00:56:49,930
Speaker 2: office purposely one day. And she knew right away something

974
00:56:49,969 --> 00:56:53,830
Speaker 2: was wrong. And so that kick-started my second stay in

975
00:56:53,850 --> 00:56:54,390
Speaker 2: the hospital.

976
00:56:55,370 --> 00:56:58,650
Speaker 1: So how long had you been back to drinking before

977
00:56:58,950 --> 00:56:59,450
Speaker 1: that happened?

978
00:57:01,810 --> 00:57:06,359
Speaker 2: Again, probably a few months. Not long. You know, again,

979
00:57:06,380 --> 00:57:09,859
Speaker 2: I think my body, if I could just in layman's terms, like, girl,

980
00:57:09,900 --> 00:57:13,820
Speaker 2: are you kidding me? Like, what are you doing? Right. Again,

981
00:57:13,880 --> 00:57:16,800
Speaker 2: I looked better. I felt better. All of these things.

982
00:57:16,820 --> 00:57:22,220
Speaker 2: But clearly my insides were just not. And again, I

983
00:57:22,360 --> 00:57:25,700
Speaker 2: was married at the time. And I think about Grady.

984
00:57:25,780 --> 00:57:28,780
Speaker 2: That is my husband. Like what he and being knowing

985
00:57:28,820 --> 00:57:33,470
Speaker 2: what he knows. He did not. He thought, you know,

986
00:57:33,510 --> 00:57:35,390
Speaker 2: he was going to be a widow, you know, and

987
00:57:35,430 --> 00:57:40,030
Speaker 2: that he did not think I was going to make it. Um,

988
00:57:40,310 --> 00:57:43,590
Speaker 2: he didn't share that with me until later on, but

989
00:57:43,690 --> 00:57:46,130
Speaker 2: the way the numbers looked and what was happening with

990
00:57:46,170 --> 00:57:51,140
Speaker 2: my body, um, and also let's face it, his experience

991
00:57:52,260 --> 00:57:55,600
Speaker 2: medically speaking with the amount of quote unquote relapse and

992
00:57:55,640 --> 00:57:59,820
Speaker 2: people going back, I'm sure he's thinking to himself, I'm

993
00:58:00,040 --> 00:58:01,660
Speaker 2: either going to be a widow or this is my

994
00:58:01,700 --> 00:58:04,920
Speaker 2: life of, you know, my wife going back and forth

995
00:58:04,960 --> 00:58:09,860
Speaker 2: to drinking. Um, and what a nightmare. I have so

996
00:58:09,880 --> 00:58:15,950
Speaker 2: much empathy. He was scared. He truly did not think

997
00:58:16,010 --> 00:58:18,890
Speaker 2: I was going to make it. He is such a

998
00:58:18,950 --> 00:58:25,250
Speaker 2: faithful man. He was praying and praying hard. And it

999
00:58:25,290 --> 00:58:30,820
Speaker 2: was during that hospital stay that Dr. Joplin, the one

1000
00:58:30,860 --> 00:58:37,700
Speaker 2: that originally had given me the first call, and She

1001
00:58:37,820 --> 00:58:39,370
Speaker 2: came to me and this is where it was just,

1002
00:58:40,450 --> 00:58:43,650
Speaker 2: it was really special. It was because Dr. Allen knew

1003
00:58:43,730 --> 00:58:46,070
Speaker 2: I had a relationship with her. I was scared to

1004
00:58:46,770 --> 00:58:50,390
Speaker 2: show my face to Dr. Joplin. How do I face

1005
00:58:50,430 --> 00:58:53,000
Speaker 2: this woman that helped me the first time and say

1006
00:58:53,060 --> 00:58:55,240
Speaker 2: I went back? Like, I just don't know how to

1007
00:58:55,320 --> 00:59:00,800
Speaker 2: do that. And she let her know that I was hospitalized.

1008
00:59:00,840 --> 00:59:02,980
Speaker 2: And I'm so glad that she did because it was

1009
00:59:03,020 --> 00:59:06,770
Speaker 2: a very powerful moment. Dr. Joplin took time to come

1010
00:59:06,810 --> 00:59:13,120
Speaker 2: and see me that day and, um, she practiced something

1011
00:59:13,300 --> 00:59:17,100
Speaker 2: that she did not learn in medical books. She had

1012
00:59:17,160 --> 00:59:20,400
Speaker 2: learned elsewhere and was therapeutic empathy. And she sat at

1013
00:59:20,440 --> 00:59:25,610
Speaker 2: my bedside. And the shame just filled that room. And

1014
00:59:26,150 --> 00:59:30,160
Speaker 2: she just shared that day a little of herself. You

1015
00:59:30,200 --> 00:59:33,430
Speaker 2: talk about it, John, just getting a little vulnerable with me.

1016
00:59:33,890 --> 00:59:37,810
Speaker 2: You know, this doctor, again, I'm looking at her. She's young.

1017
00:59:37,890 --> 00:59:40,510
Speaker 2: She's vibrant. And then she shared with me that she

1018
00:59:40,530 --> 00:59:44,610
Speaker 2: didn't drink. And there was something. And she looked at me.

1019
00:59:44,630 --> 00:59:46,590
Speaker 2: She's like, you don't ever have to do that again.

1020
00:59:46,610 --> 00:59:50,430
Speaker 2: And there was a combination of what she did for

1021
00:59:50,450 --> 00:59:52,340
Speaker 2: me that day. And I just was left with this

1022
00:59:52,470 --> 00:59:55,900
Speaker 2: feeling of, God, I want to do that for someone else.

1023
00:59:56,520 --> 00:59:59,040
Speaker 2: I want to do what she just did for me.

1024
00:59:59,620 --> 01:00:03,060
Speaker 2: for someone else one day. She gave me a spark

1025
01:00:03,080 --> 01:00:06,360
Speaker 2: of hope. She gave me a spark of a young

1026
01:00:06,440 --> 01:00:10,020
Speaker 2: person that didn't drink. You know, she clearly, you know,

1027
01:00:10,100 --> 01:00:13,220
Speaker 2: lived a fun life in Charleston, you know, did her thing.

1028
01:00:13,810 --> 01:00:19,310
Speaker 2: And that didn't include, you know, alcohol. She didn't shame me.

1029
01:00:20,110 --> 01:00:23,690
Speaker 2: She didn't. But she just said, you know, I know

1030
01:00:23,730 --> 01:00:27,150
Speaker 2: you can do this. And it was, it was so powerful.

1031
01:00:28,590 --> 01:00:32,090
Speaker 2: And it changed me. that day. And I knew I

1032
01:00:32,150 --> 01:00:33,850
Speaker 2: had to do this and I knew I had to

1033
01:00:33,890 --> 01:00:37,010
Speaker 2: do this a different way. And I was, I want

1034
01:00:37,030 --> 01:00:41,600
Speaker 2: people to know too, I was facing not only health issues,

1035
01:00:42,020 --> 01:00:46,400
Speaker 2: I was facing like a complete, at that time years ago,

1036
01:00:46,520 --> 01:00:50,950
Speaker 2: like complete backlash. I mean, I had people just that

1037
01:00:51,050 --> 01:00:55,000
Speaker 2: didn't speak to me anymore. Like again, friends that, uh,

1038
01:00:55,550 --> 01:00:57,990
Speaker 2: you know, I laugh saying this as an adult, but

1039
01:00:58,030 --> 01:01:00,130
Speaker 2: it's the truth. And I hope people understand the hurt

1040
01:01:00,170 --> 01:01:03,530
Speaker 2: that comes with it. When you carry this shameful secret,

1041
01:01:03,650 --> 01:01:06,970
Speaker 2: then all of a sudden people, you know, unfriended me

1042
01:01:07,510 --> 01:01:11,820
Speaker 2: on Facebook. Like it was like that, my biggest fears,

1043
01:01:11,860 --> 01:01:14,320
Speaker 2: what I felt were coming true. I mean, these people

1044
01:01:14,360 --> 01:01:18,040
Speaker 2: don't like me anymore. I mean, I was low and

1045
01:01:18,080 --> 01:01:22,230
Speaker 2: my sister describes it as just so painful for her

1046
01:01:22,290 --> 01:01:24,870
Speaker 2: to watch because she was like, it was like seeing

1047
01:01:24,930 --> 01:01:27,330
Speaker 2: people kick you down, like while you were down at

1048
01:01:27,370 --> 01:01:30,030
Speaker 2: your lowest, because I was so physically sick, but then

1049
01:01:30,050 --> 01:01:32,710
Speaker 2: emotionally on top of it, it was just, it was

1050
01:01:32,750 --> 01:01:36,240
Speaker 2: a very, very difficult time. And I remember like in

1051
01:01:36,280 --> 01:01:39,900
Speaker 2: that moment, like crying out to God and like, please

1052
01:01:40,600 --> 01:01:44,420
Speaker 2: like help me. And it was so clear, like I

1053
01:01:44,460 --> 01:01:47,240
Speaker 2: could hear it. It was like, I lean onto me.

1054
01:01:48,000 --> 01:01:49,860
Speaker 2: I've been wanting you to do it the whole time.

1055
01:01:50,580 --> 01:01:53,520
Speaker 2: I've been wanting you to lean on me this whole time.

1056
01:01:53,680 --> 01:01:56,080
Speaker 2: I've got you. And it was just like, just hold

1057
01:01:56,120 --> 01:02:01,170
Speaker 2: on tight. And I did. And I stuck with it.

1058
01:02:01,220 --> 01:02:04,010
Speaker 2: But I also stuck with that feeling from that day

1059
01:02:04,030 --> 01:02:08,050
Speaker 2: of that curiosity of like, how can I do this?

1060
01:02:08,170 --> 01:02:12,130
Speaker 2: Like for me, you know, the traditional methodology that works

1061
01:02:12,150 --> 01:02:14,700
Speaker 2: for so many people, and I'm so grateful for it. It,

1062
01:02:15,490 --> 01:02:19,000
Speaker 2: you know, didn't sit with me. It didn't work for me.

1063
01:02:19,020 --> 01:02:19,820
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1064
01:02:20,940 --> 01:02:23,220
Speaker 2: And so I, you know, was Googling and researching and

1065
01:02:23,260 --> 01:02:26,180
Speaker 2: that's where I found, you know, the ultimately where I

1066
01:02:26,220 --> 01:02:28,740
Speaker 2: got trained, you know, with this naked mind and just

1067
01:02:28,780 --> 01:02:33,440
Speaker 2: that science-based information. And what that did for me, John,

1068
01:02:33,540 --> 01:02:38,050
Speaker 2: was it answered those questions. Like the day, the time

1069
01:02:38,090 --> 01:02:41,010
Speaker 2: that I went back, why was I so anxious? Oh,

1070
01:02:41,070 --> 01:02:43,570
Speaker 2: I got the answers to those questions. Like, oh, this

1071
01:02:43,630 --> 01:02:47,669
Speaker 2: is what was actually happening inside my body. And, or,

1072
01:02:47,730 --> 01:02:50,450
Speaker 2: you know, this is why you went back. you know,

1073
01:02:50,650 --> 01:02:54,590
Speaker 2: to drinking that time. That was like, you just don't

1074
01:02:54,630 --> 01:02:57,750
Speaker 2: understand why. This is why. And when I got those

1075
01:02:58,070 --> 01:03:01,450
Speaker 2: answers and, you know, tied it up, like my experience

1076
01:03:01,590 --> 01:03:04,880
Speaker 2: matched up with that science information. And that was very

1077
01:03:04,930 --> 01:03:09,020
Speaker 2: powerful for me. And it really helped with that shame

1078
01:03:09,040 --> 01:03:12,320
Speaker 2: piece of understanding my body and how it was made

1079
01:03:12,480 --> 01:03:15,620
Speaker 2: and how this drug interacted with my body to help

1080
01:03:15,700 --> 01:03:19,770
Speaker 2: understand what happened. And, you know, and then God had

1081
01:03:19,810 --> 01:03:24,000
Speaker 2: to work on the shame around breaking things down so

1082
01:03:24,040 --> 01:03:26,240
Speaker 2: I could actually share and talk about it, you know,

1083
01:03:26,260 --> 01:03:29,740
Speaker 2: because that was that's a whole other a whole other

1084
01:03:29,800 --> 01:03:31,760
Speaker 2: level of healing. Right.

1085
01:03:32,760 --> 01:03:35,570
Speaker 1: So two things I want to talk about before we

1086
01:03:35,610 --> 01:03:38,670
Speaker 1: wrap up. And the first would be I would love

1087
01:03:38,890 --> 01:03:41,870
Speaker 1: for you to walk through some of the science aspect

1088
01:03:41,890 --> 01:03:45,300
Speaker 1: that you have found helpful. When it comes to alcohol.

1089
01:03:45,340 --> 01:03:49,020
Speaker 1: And then the second thing is talking about how faith

1090
01:03:50,340 --> 01:03:54,040
Speaker 1: has and now plays a role in your recovery and

1091
01:03:54,580 --> 01:03:57,930
Speaker 1: and how you counsel people, you know, on that aspect

1092
01:03:57,970 --> 01:03:59,990
Speaker 1: as well. So let's start with the science. Talk to

1093
01:04:00,010 --> 01:04:02,450
Speaker 1: us about the science, if you will, that has been

1094
01:04:02,490 --> 01:04:04,360
Speaker 1: helpful for you. Right.

1095
01:04:04,420 --> 01:04:06,340
Speaker 2: I think, you know, and I'll just start with the

1096
01:04:06,380 --> 01:04:09,540
Speaker 2: basic because there's so much science and there's no reason

1097
01:04:09,560 --> 01:04:12,560
Speaker 2: to get lost in it. And I just, again, speak

1098
01:04:12,620 --> 01:04:16,760
Speaker 2: from a non-medical mindset that I loved it and it

1099
01:04:16,800 --> 01:04:18,910
Speaker 2: made sense for me and I needed to understand it.

1100
01:04:18,960 --> 01:04:21,550
Speaker 2: You know, so for example, the anxiety component, you and

1101
01:04:21,570 --> 01:04:25,090
Speaker 2: I both described the fact of, you know, how, wait

1102
01:04:25,110 --> 01:04:28,250
Speaker 2: a minute, it helped. I felt better. And that's where,

1103
01:04:28,390 --> 01:04:31,950
Speaker 2: you know, alcohol gets its hooks in. But what we

1104
01:04:31,990 --> 01:04:34,770
Speaker 2: need to do is continue the story of, okay, then

1105
01:04:34,850 --> 01:04:37,130
Speaker 2: how did we feel, you know, that next day? How

1106
01:04:37,170 --> 01:04:40,890
Speaker 2: did we sleep at night? Our brain likes to hang

1107
01:04:41,010 --> 01:04:43,770
Speaker 2: on to that initial hook of, oh, that made me

1108
01:04:43,810 --> 01:04:48,680
Speaker 2: feel better. When actually what's happening, you know, it's alcohol

1109
01:04:48,880 --> 01:04:53,400
Speaker 2: is a stimulant antidepressant where I have this picture of

1110
01:04:53,440 --> 01:04:56,220
Speaker 2: the captain of the ship. Our brain is this just powerful,

1111
01:04:56,280 --> 01:04:59,860
Speaker 2: powerful thing. And it's constantly trying to keep us in homeostasis.

1112
01:05:00,670 --> 01:05:03,130
Speaker 2: And when we throw this drug on board, you know,

1113
01:05:03,370 --> 01:05:06,050
Speaker 2: it will then fire back and it recognizes, you know,

1114
01:05:06,090 --> 01:05:08,980
Speaker 2: wait a minute, you know, there's this depressant on board.

1115
01:05:09,020 --> 01:05:12,100
Speaker 2: So it counteracts. And so it releases the hormones like

1116
01:05:12,560 --> 01:05:15,920
Speaker 2: cortisol and adrenaline. And that's where a lot of people

1117
01:05:15,960 --> 01:05:18,740
Speaker 2: get those 3 a.m. wake ups in that next day,

1118
01:05:18,780 --> 01:05:21,620
Speaker 2: like jitters. And it's just your body. It's your body

1119
01:05:21,680 --> 01:05:26,520
Speaker 2: counteracting the poison that was on board or the drug

1120
01:05:26,560 --> 01:05:28,540
Speaker 2: that's on board. And we have to talk about it

1121
01:05:28,580 --> 01:05:31,330
Speaker 2: in that way because that's what it is. But that

1122
01:05:31,490 --> 01:05:36,270
Speaker 2: simple visual for myself and just really helped me understand, like,

1123
01:05:36,370 --> 01:05:40,790
Speaker 2: wait a minute, it actually doesn't do that job. I

1124
01:05:40,870 --> 01:05:42,830
Speaker 2: had to truly look at that and then look at

1125
01:05:42,890 --> 01:05:46,270
Speaker 2: my own personal experience because our brain loves to hang

1126
01:05:46,330 --> 01:05:48,169
Speaker 2: on to that. Like what you and I could talk

1127
01:05:48,210 --> 01:05:49,870
Speaker 2: about today and what we can read in a book

1128
01:05:50,390 --> 01:05:53,330
Speaker 2: is really powerful. But when people dig into their own

1129
01:05:53,390 --> 01:05:57,700
Speaker 2: personal experience of, wait a minute, this What about that

1130
01:05:57,760 --> 01:06:00,420
Speaker 2: time that I went on vacation? I promised myself I

1131
01:06:00,460 --> 01:06:02,400
Speaker 2: wasn't going to, but I ended up drinking and I

1132
01:06:02,440 --> 01:06:06,420
Speaker 2: felt horrible. That's what was actually happening. It can be really,

1133
01:06:06,840 --> 01:06:10,230
Speaker 2: really eye-opening. And your brain latches onto that because it's like, hey,

1134
01:06:10,790 --> 01:06:14,230
Speaker 2: I remember that. I remember that is what happened. Wait

1135
01:06:14,270 --> 01:06:17,689
Speaker 2: a minute. And then it's just, you know, I would

1136
01:06:17,730 --> 01:06:19,510
Speaker 2: love for people, and it could be, you know, a

1137
01:06:19,530 --> 01:06:23,189
Speaker 2: whole other podcast is talking about the neuroplasticity and just

1138
01:06:23,250 --> 01:06:29,090
Speaker 2: how we've, When you truly, you know, why I went

1139
01:06:29,170 --> 01:06:33,290
Speaker 2: back the second time, my brain had done zero rewiring.

1140
01:06:33,550 --> 01:06:36,730
Speaker 2: I had not worked on anything. I hadn't used other

1141
01:06:36,770 --> 01:06:39,110
Speaker 2: tools and said, okay, this is what I'm going to

1142
01:06:39,130 --> 01:06:42,550
Speaker 2: do instead. And that's what makes me worry about some

1143
01:06:42,590 --> 01:06:44,700
Speaker 2: people when they stop drinking, then that's all they do.

1144
01:06:44,800 --> 01:06:50,120
Speaker 2: They just like, I'm stopping drinking. And, oh, I want

1145
01:06:50,140 --> 01:06:53,020
Speaker 2: them to know there's so much more. out there, you know,

1146
01:06:53,040 --> 01:06:55,610
Speaker 2: that they can do to make this where truly you

1147
01:06:55,650 --> 01:07:00,729
Speaker 2: find freedom. And, you know, rerouting, you know, those neuropathways

1148
01:07:00,770 --> 01:07:02,500
Speaker 2: where right now I could sit here and tell you,

1149
01:07:02,510 --> 01:07:04,650
Speaker 2: it would be so much harder for me to drink

1150
01:07:06,570 --> 01:07:09,660
Speaker 2: where normally years ago would have been my norm. I don't,

1151
01:07:09,920 --> 01:07:14,540
Speaker 2: my brain has been rewired. And I think it's just,

1152
01:07:14,900 --> 01:07:17,660
Speaker 2: I want people to understand that that's a possibility. And

1153
01:07:17,700 --> 01:07:21,430
Speaker 2: there's work involved. There's work involved, but It's just so

1154
01:07:21,470 --> 01:07:22,750
Speaker 2: beautiful and it's so worth it.

1155
01:07:23,870 --> 01:07:26,470
Speaker 1: So, yeah, you know, I think there's a difference between

1156
01:07:26,490 --> 01:07:31,110
Speaker 1: sobriety and freedom, right? You know, I talk about gospel-centered recovery, right?

1157
01:07:31,130 --> 01:07:33,590
Speaker 1: That's why I say aim for Jesus, get sobriety thrown in,

1158
01:07:34,190 --> 01:07:38,190
Speaker 1: and that's not a gospel-only recovery, right? It's gospel-centered recovery,

1159
01:07:38,230 --> 01:07:43,390
Speaker 1: meaning inviting Jesus into, you know, your counseling and your

1160
01:07:43,470 --> 01:07:48,630
Speaker 1: therapy and the program that you're Using it's not just,

1161
01:07:48,850 --> 01:07:51,330
Speaker 1: you know, gospel only recovery being like prayed away, just

1162
01:07:51,370 --> 01:07:55,100
Speaker 1: have more faith, you know, that kind of stuff. But,

1163
01:07:55,420 --> 01:07:58,220
Speaker 1: you know, when you shoot for Jesus, you get that

1164
01:07:58,280 --> 01:08:02,100
Speaker 1: most flourishing, fulfilled life now and in eternity. And like,

1165
01:08:02,160 --> 01:08:04,690
Speaker 1: that's what we want for people, not just to not drink,

1166
01:08:05,030 --> 01:08:05,330
Speaker 1: you know?

1167
01:08:05,470 --> 01:08:05,990
Speaker 2: Yes.

1168
01:08:06,330 --> 01:08:10,970
Speaker 1: It's like that's not the sobriety is a good goal.

1169
01:08:11,680 --> 01:08:14,200
Speaker 1: But it can't be the ultimate goal. Right. And I

1170
01:08:14,240 --> 01:08:16,820
Speaker 1: think you and me and Christy and, you know, a

1171
01:08:16,890 --> 01:08:20,430
Speaker 1: lot of the people that we know, like we want

1172
01:08:20,590 --> 01:08:24,849
Speaker 1: more than just miserable, sober people. Right. We want people

1173
01:08:24,950 --> 01:08:29,189
Speaker 1: who are flourishing and fulfilled. And I think to that end,

1174
01:08:29,260 --> 01:08:33,540
Speaker 1: I would love to know kind of how you've incorporated

1175
01:08:34,060 --> 01:08:38,220
Speaker 1: faith into your own recovery and how you counsel people

1176
01:08:38,400 --> 01:08:39,420
Speaker 1: on that aspect as well.

1177
01:08:39,439 --> 01:08:44,090
Speaker 2: Yeah. I love this question. And that's where, you know,

1178
01:08:44,900 --> 01:08:46,780
Speaker 2: like I shared at the very beginning, you know, I

1179
01:08:46,820 --> 01:08:49,580
Speaker 2: grew up always going to church and having, you know,

1180
01:08:49,620 --> 01:08:55,290
Speaker 2: that beautiful, like just foundation of it. But what this

1181
01:08:55,370 --> 01:08:58,470
Speaker 2: experience did to me was take a shift in that

1182
01:08:58,570 --> 01:09:02,519
Speaker 2: and have me really step in into relationship and trust

1183
01:09:02,729 --> 01:09:05,020
Speaker 2: and growth. And there was a lot of work to do.

1184
01:09:05,040 --> 01:09:09,420
Speaker 2: I had a lot of healing to do, a lot

1185
01:09:09,500 --> 01:09:14,380
Speaker 2: of wounds that needed to be healed over time. And

1186
01:09:14,479 --> 01:09:20,570
Speaker 2: that was For me, the biggest shift was truly getting

1187
01:09:20,770 --> 01:09:27,320
Speaker 2: into and understanding like scripture and what God had in

1188
01:09:27,360 --> 01:09:30,920
Speaker 2: store for me. And so writing all of these things

1189
01:09:31,000 --> 01:09:37,090
Speaker 2: down and following in deep prayer of where he wants

1190
01:09:37,110 --> 01:09:41,380
Speaker 2: to lead me. And I've noticed in my life, John,

1191
01:09:41,700 --> 01:09:44,620
Speaker 2: when I typically get the biggest pushback is usually then

1192
01:09:44,660 --> 01:09:49,679
Speaker 2: I'm headed in the right direction. Preach. Right. I think,

1193
01:09:49,939 --> 01:09:53,309
Speaker 2: you know, I'll never forget, you know, when I, you know,

1194
01:09:53,550 --> 01:09:59,510
Speaker 2: learning Matthew 25 and that Bible study that day, you know,

1195
01:10:00,530 --> 01:10:03,330
Speaker 2: the parable of the talents. And, you know, when God

1196
01:10:03,410 --> 01:10:06,140
Speaker 2: spoke to me, I have never experienced that. And I

1197
01:10:06,180 --> 01:10:10,190
Speaker 2: try and carry that with me. And in the short

1198
01:10:10,229 --> 01:10:12,790
Speaker 2: end of that was basically I saw God was telling me,

1199
01:10:12,930 --> 01:10:15,389
Speaker 2: you're bearing the gift that I gave you. I gave

1200
01:10:15,430 --> 01:10:17,910
Speaker 2: you this gift and you're hiding it from the world.

1201
01:10:18,870 --> 01:10:21,809
Speaker 2: And so I've tried to step out and show my

1202
01:10:21,890 --> 01:10:26,410
Speaker 2: faith through my story and sharing those pieces. And I'm

1203
01:10:26,450 --> 01:10:28,380
Speaker 2: not always the best at it, but I got one

1204
01:10:28,400 --> 01:10:32,040
Speaker 2: of the best compliments from my book. My sister, she

1205
01:10:32,120 --> 01:10:35,320
Speaker 2: is one of those that she man, she can preach it.

1206
01:10:35,410 --> 01:10:37,670
Speaker 2: And I'm always kind of jealous of that and how

1207
01:10:37,710 --> 01:10:39,990
Speaker 2: she always has the right scripture and the words. And

1208
01:10:40,810 --> 01:10:43,450
Speaker 2: I don't always have that, but I see that God

1209
01:10:43,610 --> 01:10:48,080
Speaker 2: uses me in other ways. And my book was a

1210
01:10:48,120 --> 01:10:50,179
Speaker 2: piece of that. And someone said there, like, I just,

1211
01:10:50,880 --> 01:10:54,299
Speaker 2: you didn't outright say it, but your faith was woven

1212
01:10:54,760 --> 01:10:57,099
Speaker 2: throughout that entire book. And it just made it clear.

1213
01:10:57,150 --> 01:10:59,490
Speaker 2: And I want to thank you for that. And this

1214
01:10:59,530 --> 01:11:02,650
Speaker 2: was a person that wasn't really a believer, but it

1215
01:11:02,710 --> 01:11:04,830
Speaker 2: had them kind of go, wait a minute, I'm curious

1216
01:11:04,890 --> 01:11:06,870
Speaker 2: about that. And so I try and hang on to

1217
01:11:06,910 --> 01:11:10,950
Speaker 2: that through my story and just through direction. And in

1218
01:11:11,030 --> 01:11:14,410
Speaker 2: coaching people, I always just have the doors wide open.

1219
01:11:14,550 --> 01:11:17,830
Speaker 2: But whenever I have a person of faith, I always

1220
01:11:18,229 --> 01:11:21,950
Speaker 2: get excited because then we can just go that much deeper.

1221
01:11:22,110 --> 01:11:24,500
Speaker 2: And when you can bring prayer into it and into

1222
01:11:24,580 --> 01:11:29,729
Speaker 2: that guidance and into that work, I just feel like again,

1223
01:11:29,770 --> 01:11:34,059
Speaker 2: you're going to reach places that you would never thought possible.

1224
01:11:34,340 --> 01:11:36,740
Speaker 2: And I think that's what I like to share with people.

1225
01:11:37,060 --> 01:11:39,580
Speaker 1: Reach places in the future. And I think reach places

1226
01:11:39,640 --> 01:11:42,160
Speaker 1: inside of you that like, you know, you've talked about

1227
01:11:42,189 --> 01:11:45,110
Speaker 1: getting to the root. And I tell people like, can

1228
01:11:45,150 --> 01:11:48,990
Speaker 1: you get sober without Jesus? Absolutely. Like millions of people have, right?

1229
01:11:49,910 --> 01:11:54,030
Speaker 1: But if you really want to go like to the root, right?

1230
01:11:54,310 --> 01:11:57,330
Speaker 1: And listen, no one has only one addiction. you know,

1231
01:11:57,430 --> 01:12:00,390
Speaker 1: like there's, there's so many things, right. To your point,

1232
01:12:00,430 --> 01:12:02,900
Speaker 1: it's like the alcohol, you know, and this is the

1233
01:12:02,939 --> 01:12:05,340
Speaker 1: popular phrase in AA, but, but alcohol was the solution

1234
01:12:05,380 --> 01:12:07,439
Speaker 1: to your problem. Like it wasn't your problem, you know,

1235
01:12:08,479 --> 01:12:10,700
Speaker 1: it was the immediate problem to your liver issues.

1236
01:12:11,120 --> 01:12:13,180
Speaker 2: Right. So, so again, okay.

1237
01:12:13,220 --> 01:12:16,320
Speaker 1: Yeah. We're going there, but like, let's go deeper. And

1238
01:12:16,340 --> 01:12:18,980
Speaker 1: I think that's what, you know, I'm excited about calling

1239
01:12:19,020 --> 01:12:23,990
Speaker 1: people to, and I know you are as well. If people, Carla,

1240
01:12:24,130 --> 01:12:28,630
Speaker 1: want to get more information on you, your coaching, your book,

1241
01:12:29,570 --> 01:12:30,350
Speaker 1: where can they go?

1242
01:12:31,370 --> 01:12:33,490
Speaker 2: Yes. Well, my book is on Amazon, so you can

1243
01:12:33,530 --> 01:12:36,270
Speaker 2: get that on there. You know, Angie came tumbling down.

1244
01:12:36,930 --> 01:12:38,900
Speaker 2: And just a little bit about me, what I do.

1245
01:12:38,910 --> 01:12:41,880
Speaker 2: And my information is on there, too. So if you

1246
01:12:41,960 --> 01:12:44,180
Speaker 2: ever want to reach out to me, you can reach

1247
01:12:44,240 --> 01:12:45,820
Speaker 2: out to me directly from that website.

1248
01:12:46,540 --> 01:12:50,650
Speaker 1: Well, Carla, thank you so much for sharing your story.

1249
01:12:50,689 --> 01:12:54,060
Speaker 1: We were only able to graze kind of the the highlights,

1250
01:12:54,120 --> 01:12:55,480
Speaker 1: or should I say the lowlights, right?

1251
01:12:55,580 --> 01:12:56,740
Speaker 2: Right.

1252
01:12:57,120 --> 01:12:59,620
Speaker 1: You know, I tell people in my book, like, if

1253
01:12:59,640 --> 01:13:02,480
Speaker 1: there's anyone that comes forward and says, oh, John hid

1254
01:13:02,520 --> 01:13:04,650
Speaker 1: this part. He didn't say that. I'll be like, it's true.

1255
01:13:05,830 --> 01:13:08,870
Speaker 1: And you can only fit so much of how bad

1256
01:13:08,890 --> 01:13:12,670
Speaker 1: it got into what they... Right, right. But we are

1257
01:13:12,790 --> 01:13:13,270
Speaker 1: open books.

1258
01:13:14,189 --> 01:13:14,389
Speaker 2: Yes.

1259
01:13:14,410 --> 01:13:17,330
Speaker 1: Figuratively and literally. And so I thank you for being

1260
01:13:17,350 --> 01:13:21,530
Speaker 1: radically vulnerable and pointing people to, you know, the ultimate

1261
01:13:21,650 --> 01:13:25,040
Speaker 1: source of Hope, really appreciate you joining us today.

1262
01:13:25,060 --> 01:13:26,860
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me.

1263
01:13:28,460 --> 01:13:30,849
Speaker 1: What I love, or I should say one of the

1264
01:13:30,900 --> 01:13:33,970
Speaker 1: many things I love about Carla and her story, is

1265
01:13:34,010 --> 01:13:38,130
Speaker 1: that it's a good reminder that recovery doesn't have to

1266
01:13:38,170 --> 01:13:40,950
Speaker 1: be either or. And what I mean by that is

1267
01:13:40,990 --> 01:13:43,210
Speaker 1: I think so many in the secular world say, hey,

1268
01:13:43,790 --> 01:13:49,250
Speaker 1: it has to be addiction as disease model, and it

1269
01:13:49,430 --> 01:13:54,450
Speaker 1: has to be all 12-step recovery, Or whatnot. And then

1270
01:13:54,630 --> 01:13:57,590
Speaker 1: yet so many in the church have gone to the

1271
01:13:57,670 --> 01:14:01,260
Speaker 1: other team and said, hey, it's only pray more, have

1272
01:14:01,439 --> 01:14:05,320
Speaker 1: more faith, show up to church more, read your Bible more. And,

1273
01:14:05,620 --> 01:14:07,400
Speaker 1: you know, I kind of talked about this a little

1274
01:14:07,420 --> 01:14:10,960
Speaker 1: bit in the episode, but, you know, I am for

1275
01:14:11,720 --> 01:14:16,420
Speaker 1: gospel centered recovery and gospel centered recovery doesn't treat it

1276
01:14:16,640 --> 01:14:19,040
Speaker 1: as an either or. Right. It says, hey, listen, there

1277
01:14:19,120 --> 01:14:23,220
Speaker 1: are great tools and resources available. like 12-step recovery and,

1278
01:14:23,240 --> 01:14:28,620
Speaker 1: you know, medication and therapy and counseling and biblical counseling,

1279
01:14:28,640 --> 01:14:35,220
Speaker 1: trauma-informed care, detox, right? All of those things are good,

1280
01:14:35,340 --> 01:14:38,760
Speaker 1: and they are, in fact, common graces that are offered

1281
01:14:39,240 --> 01:14:41,340
Speaker 1: by God. But we just need to make sure that

1282
01:14:41,420 --> 01:14:44,150
Speaker 1: they don't become the goal, that we don't start worshiping them.

1283
01:14:44,200 --> 01:14:47,250
Speaker 1: And we need to invite Jesus into all of those aspects,

1284
01:14:47,390 --> 01:14:51,630
Speaker 1: all of the therapy, even the medication aspect, right? Not

1285
01:14:51,729 --> 01:14:55,750
Speaker 1: treating that as the end-all be-all, but hey, now what

1286
01:14:55,790 --> 01:14:57,689
Speaker 1: is that allowing me to work on? What is that

1287
01:14:57,729 --> 01:15:00,950
Speaker 1: allowing me to invite Jesus into? And then on the

1288
01:15:01,030 --> 01:15:04,690
Speaker 1: other end of the spectrum, right, is what you could

1289
01:15:04,720 --> 01:15:07,060
Speaker 1: kind of say is like what I call gospel-only recovery.

1290
01:15:07,380 --> 01:15:08,939
Speaker 1: You know, I kind of mentioned that earlier, which is

1291
01:15:09,180 --> 01:15:10,939
Speaker 1: just pray it away, just have more faith, just read

1292
01:15:10,960 --> 01:15:14,240
Speaker 1: your Bible, just go to church more, right? And I

1293
01:15:14,300 --> 01:15:17,920
Speaker 1: think that is a distortion of what The Lord has

1294
01:15:17,979 --> 01:15:21,920
Speaker 1: provided for us, right? He's provided a lot of other

1295
01:15:22,260 --> 01:15:27,520
Speaker 1: means to help us, right? And so I think Carla

1296
01:15:28,439 --> 01:15:34,120
Speaker 1: and her story kind of thread that needle well, and

1297
01:15:34,140 --> 01:15:38,080
Speaker 1: I'm excited that you got to hear that. Listen, if

1298
01:15:38,160 --> 01:15:41,160
Speaker 1: you like this episode, if there's anything in this episode

1299
01:15:41,240 --> 01:15:45,320
Speaker 1: that really resonated with you, please share it. You know,

1300
01:15:45,360 --> 01:15:49,050
Speaker 1: I would love for you to like, subscribe, leave a review, obviously.

1301
01:15:49,390 --> 01:15:52,689
Speaker 1: But really, my heart is, if there is just one

1302
01:15:52,750 --> 01:15:57,200
Speaker 1: thing that you found helpful, would you please share this episode?

1303
01:15:57,760 --> 01:16:00,680
Speaker 1: episode we need to get the word out more and

1304
01:16:00,720 --> 01:16:03,880
Speaker 1: maybe perhaps even there's someone that that that that just

1305
01:16:03,939 --> 01:16:05,420
Speaker 1: came to mind that you're like well why did they

1306
01:16:05,460 --> 01:16:07,300
Speaker 1: come to mind and you know my prayer is that

1307
01:16:07,380 --> 01:16:10,060
Speaker 1: that's the holy spirit and uh and please share it

1308
01:16:10,100 --> 01:16:13,729
Speaker 1: with that person as well thank you um as always

1309
01:16:13,790 --> 01:16:17,610
Speaker 1: to our partner life audio they make this podcast possible

1310
01:16:17,630 --> 01:16:20,530
Speaker 1: you can go to lifeaudio.com and listen to other great

1311
01:16:20,689 --> 01:16:22,370
Speaker 1: podcasts and if you want to grab my book it

1312
01:16:22,430 --> 01:16:25,510
Speaker 1: is still 30 off through the publisher You can go

1313
01:16:25,530 --> 01:16:30,590
Speaker 1: to christianalcoholic.com, christianalcoholic.com and find that link. Love you all.

1314
01:16:30,710 --> 01:16:32,309
Speaker 1: We will see you here next week.