1 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:03,640 Speaker 1: Life audio. 2 00:00:05,559 --> 00:00:10,200 Speaker 2: Shame is one of the most powerful and painful emotions 3 00:00:10,240 --> 00:00:15,920 Speaker 2: we experience. Often lead us feeling unworthy, unseen, and disconnected 4 00:00:16,280 --> 00:00:19,680 Speaker 2: both from God and from others. But what if both 5 00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:25,040 Speaker 2: neuroscience and scripture revealed a pathway out of shame and 6 00:00:25,160 --> 00:00:28,639 Speaker 2: into healing. In this Hope Filled episode of Your Hope 7 00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:33,080 Speaker 2: Field Perspective, I'm joined by co host Reverend Jessica Venrokel 8 00:00:33,159 --> 00:00:37,479 Speaker 2: to unpack how shame affects the brain, body and spirit, 9 00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:42,960 Speaker 2: and how God's truth can rewire our thinking, renew our identity, 10 00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:48,000 Speaker 2: and restore our relationships. If you have ever wrestled with 11 00:00:48,159 --> 00:00:52,000 Speaker 2: feelings of not being enough, this conversation will offer both 12 00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:55,880 Speaker 2: the science and biblical encouragement you need to break free 13 00:00:55,920 --> 00:00:59,400 Speaker 2: from shame and embrace who God says you are. We'll 14 00:00:59,480 --> 00:01:03,120 Speaker 2: dive into this right after a brief word from our sponsor. 15 00:01:06,160 --> 00:01:09,920 Speaker 3: Welcome to your Hope Filled Perspective with doctor Michelle Benkson, 16 00:01:09,959 --> 00:01:13,720 Speaker 3: where our goal is to restore hope, renew minds, and 17 00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:17,759 Speaker 3: empower listeners to live in their God given identity. Today, 18 00:01:18,040 --> 00:01:22,240 Speaker 3: I'm your host, Jessica Venrokol. Today is a very special 19 00:01:22,360 --> 00:01:25,520 Speaker 3: episode because I get to interview my co host and 20 00:01:25,640 --> 00:01:30,080 Speaker 3: dear friend Doctor Michelle Bankdon. Michelle is a Board certified 21 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:34,880 Speaker 3: clinical neuropsychologist and international speaker, and the award winning author 22 00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:37,280 Speaker 3: of several books that combine. 23 00:01:37,040 --> 00:01:38,760 Speaker 1: Faith and psychology. 24 00:01:38,959 --> 00:01:44,000 Speaker 3: She has spent decades helping people find healing from depression, anxiety, 25 00:01:44,160 --> 00:01:47,200 Speaker 3: and the hidden struggles of the mind. Shame is a 26 00:01:47,200 --> 00:01:50,600 Speaker 3: heavy burden that whispers lies about our worth and keeps 27 00:01:50,680 --> 00:01:55,160 Speaker 3: us stuck in cycles of fear, hiding, and disconnection. Yet 28 00:01:55,560 --> 00:01:59,560 Speaker 3: both science and scripture point us toward freedom. In this 29 00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:02,800 Speaker 3: episodeisode of Your Hope Filled Perspective, we are going to 30 00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:07,120 Speaker 3: use her background as a clinical neuropsychologist to explore the 31 00:02:07,240 --> 00:02:12,000 Speaker 3: surprising ways shame impacts the brain, body, and soul, and 32 00:02:12,200 --> 00:02:14,160 Speaker 3: the practical hope filled steps that. 33 00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:14,960 Speaker 1: Lead to healing. 34 00:02:15,200 --> 00:02:19,720 Speaker 3: Together, we will uncover how God's truth can rewire negative 35 00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:24,000 Speaker 3: thought patterns, renew your sense of identity, and restore your 36 00:02:24,040 --> 00:02:28,160 Speaker 3: relationship with Him and others. If you long to silence 37 00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:32,600 Speaker 3: shame and walk in freedom, Christ offers, then this conversation 38 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:33,240 Speaker 3: is for you. 39 00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:36,639 Speaker 1: Michelle. Welcome to your own podcast. 40 00:02:38,600 --> 00:02:41,960 Speaker 2: Thanks Jessica. It feels a little strange being on this 41 00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:44,920 Speaker 2: side of the microphone, but I'm really excited about this 42 00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:49,880 Speaker 2: conversation because shame is something I've not only studied professionally, 43 00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:53,280 Speaker 2: but I've wrestled with it personally. And I really believe 44 00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:57,320 Speaker 2: that this conversation will give both listeners and viewers both 45 00:02:57,360 --> 00:03:00,480 Speaker 2: the science and the biblical hope that they need. So 46 00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:02,799 Speaker 2: I can't wait to dive in and see what science 47 00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:05,520 Speaker 2: and faith have to say about shame. But I want 48 00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:09,480 Speaker 2: to share a scripture that I think will start off 49 00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:12,760 Speaker 2: this episode by encouraging our listeners, and that comes from 50 00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:17,399 Speaker 2: Psalm thirty four, verse five that says those who look 51 00:03:17,480 --> 00:03:23,000 Speaker 2: to Him are radiant, their faces are never covered with shame. 52 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:27,800 Speaker 3: Michelle, that is a fantastic scripture to open up our 53 00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:31,519 Speaker 3: discussion on this. But let's start with the basics. Now 54 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:35,600 Speaker 3: you've studied the brain for years. What does neuroscience tell 55 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:39,400 Speaker 3: us about how emotions like shame affect us. 56 00:03:39,920 --> 00:03:45,240 Speaker 2: That's a really good starting question. Our brain is constantly 57 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:49,080 Speaker 2: scanning for threat. That's the way God created us. He 58 00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:52,440 Speaker 2: created us to be able to react quickly in a 59 00:03:52,480 --> 00:03:56,400 Speaker 2: state of emergency. But when we feel shame, the brain 60 00:03:56,760 --> 00:04:02,040 Speaker 2: actually processes it as a social threat. Now there's a 61 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:04,720 Speaker 2: part of the brain, it's called the amychdila and that's 62 00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:08,640 Speaker 2: like the brain's alarm system and that lights up. So 63 00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:13,640 Speaker 2: that is what triggers the fight flight or freeze response 64 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:15,840 Speaker 2: that so many of us have heard about. But instead 65 00:04:15,880 --> 00:04:19,280 Speaker 2: of say running from a bear, we feel like we 66 00:04:19,360 --> 00:04:23,640 Speaker 2: need to run from people or hide from God when 67 00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:26,960 Speaker 2: we're wrestling with shame. The other part is that shame 68 00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:32,040 Speaker 2: also dampens the activity in what's called our prefrontal cortex. 69 00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:35,120 Speaker 2: That's the part of the brain that helps us think 70 00:04:35,240 --> 00:04:38,760 Speaker 2: rationally and it helps us problem solve. So when shame 71 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:43,440 Speaker 2: is triggered, we don't just feel bad. We literally lose 72 00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:47,560 Speaker 2: access to our ability to think clearly, and that's why 73 00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:52,920 Speaker 2: people spiral, ruminate and get stuck. Now, just the fascinating 74 00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:58,400 Speaker 2: part is this neuroscience shows that shame isn't just an emotion. 75 00:04:59,160 --> 00:05:04,080 Speaker 2: It affects our nervous system, our relationships, and even our 76 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:05,480 Speaker 2: physical health. 77 00:05:05,680 --> 00:05:09,200 Speaker 3: Wow, I'm sitting here was like I've wish. I feel 78 00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:11,320 Speaker 3: like my jaws dropped to the bottom of my desk 79 00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:13,400 Speaker 3: and I just have to pick it up because not 80 00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:16,839 Speaker 3: only is it fascinating, but it's really a little sobering. 81 00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:20,599 Speaker 3: We often hear guilt and shame like youse like they're 82 00:05:20,640 --> 00:05:24,880 Speaker 3: the exact same thing, Like they're interchangeable. But they're really different, right. 83 00:05:25,320 --> 00:05:29,920 Speaker 2: Yes, they're very different. Guilt says I did something wrong. 84 00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:34,520 Speaker 2: Shame says I am something wrong. 85 00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:35,240 Speaker 1: Wow. 86 00:05:35,760 --> 00:05:40,760 Speaker 2: Guilt is actually helpful when it leads us to repentance 87 00:05:40,960 --> 00:05:44,440 Speaker 2: and change. But an important distinction needs to be made. 88 00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:49,280 Speaker 2: When Jesus died, he sent the Holy Spirit to remind 89 00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:52,400 Speaker 2: us of all truth and to be our comforter. The 90 00:05:52,440 --> 00:05:56,239 Speaker 2: Holy Spirit will convict us of our sin in order 91 00:05:56,320 --> 00:05:59,800 Speaker 2: to bring us back into a right relationship with God. 92 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:04,240 Speaker 2: So his conviction is based in love. Scripture says in 93 00:06:04,320 --> 00:06:08,640 Speaker 2: Romans eight to one. There is therefore now no condemnation, 94 00:06:08,920 --> 00:06:12,080 Speaker 2: or we could say no shame for those who are 95 00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:16,279 Speaker 2: in Christ Jesus. But shame, it goes deeper. It attacks 96 00:06:16,320 --> 00:06:20,400 Speaker 2: our identity. Instead of saying I made a mistake, shame 97 00:06:20,520 --> 00:06:26,560 Speaker 2: says I am a mistake. Now. From a brain perspective, 98 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:31,559 Speaker 2: guilt tends to activate the problem solving areas of our brain. 99 00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:34,960 Speaker 2: Our brain looks for a way to fix or make 100 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:38,240 Speaker 2: amends to what went wrong, what we did wrong. Shame, 101 00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:42,040 Speaker 2: on the other hand, activates the parts of the brain 102 00:06:42,320 --> 00:06:46,679 Speaker 2: that are tied to rejection and fear, so it shuts 103 00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:50,919 Speaker 2: us down. Then we tend to hide and we disconnect. Now, 104 00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:55,640 Speaker 2: if we take it one step further spiritually, that is 105 00:06:55,920 --> 00:07:01,480 Speaker 2: exactly what the enemy wants. He wants us id believing 106 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:07,640 Speaker 2: lies about who we are instead of embracing who God 107 00:07:07,760 --> 00:07:08,960 Speaker 2: says we are. 108 00:07:09,320 --> 00:07:09,840 Speaker 1: Wow. 109 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:13,440 Speaker 3: So what you're really saying is shame is like the 110 00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:20,200 Speaker 3: enemy's counterfeit. It feels powerful, but it's actually destructive exactly. 111 00:07:21,200 --> 00:07:25,560 Speaker 2: Shame is the enemy's weapon to distort our identity and 112 00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:28,720 Speaker 2: keep us from God's love and community. You know, the 113 00:07:28,880 --> 00:07:33,600 Speaker 2: enemy in scripture is referred to as the father of lies. Yeah, 114 00:07:33,640 --> 00:07:38,600 Speaker 2: but he usually whispers to us with just enough truth 115 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:43,720 Speaker 2: so that we believe or agree with what he says. 116 00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:48,760 Speaker 2: But as you said, it's always a counterfeit. There's always 117 00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:52,200 Speaker 2: some part of his whispering that is a lie. 118 00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:55,840 Speaker 1: Yeah. Wow, so insightful. Thank you. Friends. 119 00:07:55,840 --> 00:07:57,960 Speaker 3: We are going to take a break for a brief 120 00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:00,960 Speaker 3: word from our sponsor, but stick with us to hear 121 00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:03,880 Speaker 3: more about how to break free from shame. 122 00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:09,480 Speaker 1: Welcome back to your hope filled perspective. 123 00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:13,360 Speaker 3: Today we are talking about how to break free from shame. 124 00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:17,680 Speaker 3: So let's bring faith into this Shame isn't just a 125 00:08:17,840 --> 00:08:19,440 Speaker 3: modern health concept, right. 126 00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:21,080 Speaker 1: It shows up in the Bible. 127 00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:25,160 Speaker 2: It does. The very first time that shame is mentioned 128 00:08:25,560 --> 00:08:29,120 Speaker 2: is in the first book of the Bible, Genesis, before 129 00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:33,000 Speaker 2: sin entered the world. We know that Adam and Eve, 130 00:08:33,400 --> 00:08:36,679 Speaker 2: the first two beings that God created, they were naked, 131 00:08:37,000 --> 00:08:41,200 Speaker 2: and scripture actually tells us they felt no shame. Wow. 132 00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:47,080 Speaker 2: But once they disobeyed God, that's when shame came rushing in. 133 00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:51,440 Speaker 2: They hid, they covered themselves, and just that's the very 134 00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:57,720 Speaker 2: essence of shame, hiding and covering well because we feel exposed. Yeah, 135 00:08:58,080 --> 00:09:01,000 Speaker 2: but notice what God did. If we go back to 136 00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:04,720 Speaker 2: that scriptural account in Genesis, it tells us that God 137 00:09:04,880 --> 00:09:09,240 Speaker 2: came looking for them, then he clothed them. And I 138 00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:12,480 Speaker 2: really think that is a picture of God's heart. He 139 00:09:12,559 --> 00:09:17,000 Speaker 2: moves towards us in our shame when the enemy tempts 140 00:09:17,040 --> 00:09:21,360 Speaker 2: us to move away from God and others. Right, I 141 00:09:21,400 --> 00:09:25,120 Speaker 2: really think that the ultimate expression of this is the cross. 142 00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:31,560 Speaker 2: Hebers twelve two tells us that Jesus endured the cross, 143 00:09:31,640 --> 00:09:37,160 Speaker 2: scorning its shame. So not only did Jesus bear our sin, 144 00:09:37,640 --> 00:09:42,560 Speaker 2: but also our shame. So, friends, when shame whispers you're 145 00:09:42,640 --> 00:09:47,240 Speaker 2: not enough. The Cross declares you are covered, you are loved, 146 00:09:47,559 --> 00:09:51,319 Speaker 2: You are free, not because of anything you did, but 147 00:09:51,440 --> 00:09:55,640 Speaker 2: because of what Jesus did for us on the Cross. 148 00:09:55,800 --> 00:10:00,400 Speaker 2: And what's so beautiful, Jessica, is that neuroscience confirmed what 149 00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:05,319 Speaker 2: scripture has already said. Connection heals shame. So when we 150 00:10:05,400 --> 00:10:08,839 Speaker 2: bring our struggles into the light with God and with 151 00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:14,319 Speaker 2: safe people, the brain literally calms down. New neuropathways are 152 00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:16,800 Speaker 2: formed in our brain, and healing happens. 153 00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:19,720 Speaker 1: Oh, Michelle, this is so hopeful. 154 00:10:20,040 --> 00:10:22,640 Speaker 3: It reminds me that shame doesn't have to have the 155 00:10:22,720 --> 00:10:26,920 Speaker 3: last word. It doesn't have to control my present and 156 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:28,000 Speaker 3: future decisions. 157 00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:32,160 Speaker 2: Oh that's exactly right, because just Jesus already had the 158 00:10:32,280 --> 00:10:32,880 Speaker 2: last word. 159 00:10:33,280 --> 00:10:36,280 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, But I guess. 160 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:39,880 Speaker 2: This makes me think about the listener or viewer who 161 00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:45,960 Speaker 2: feels unseen, because shame often presents when we feel unseen. 162 00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:49,200 Speaker 2: So just I'd be curious about your thoughts about that. 163 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:50,280 Speaker 1: Well. 164 00:10:50,440 --> 00:10:53,440 Speaker 3: I have felt that I have felt like when I 165 00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:56,200 Speaker 3: am unseen there must be something inherently wrong with me. 166 00:10:56,640 --> 00:11:02,520 Speaker 3: And I have been recovery people pleasing person and so 167 00:11:02,720 --> 00:11:06,640 Speaker 3: often I would look to other people to affirm my identity, 168 00:11:06,679 --> 00:11:10,520 Speaker 3: to affirm me if I was enough. And an example 169 00:11:10,520 --> 00:11:13,760 Speaker 3: of this is when I joined an existing group. You know, 170 00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:16,760 Speaker 3: it's a group that's been established since the seventies, and 171 00:11:16,800 --> 00:11:19,360 Speaker 3: I was the newcomer into it, and you know how 172 00:11:19,400 --> 00:11:23,040 Speaker 3: it is trying to make inroads into relationships that have 173 00:11:23,080 --> 00:11:27,080 Speaker 3: already formed in a group. And I'm a connector by nature. 174 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:29,719 Speaker 3: I love people. I can talk to anybody. But there 175 00:11:29,720 --> 00:11:32,920 Speaker 3: are some situations, especially when it's a tightly knit group, 176 00:11:32,920 --> 00:11:35,480 Speaker 3: that I'm trying to just find a little opening, find 177 00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:38,680 Speaker 3: connection with people, and I fail and I walk away 178 00:11:38,679 --> 00:11:41,959 Speaker 3: from that going well, I'm terrible at this. 179 00:11:42,640 --> 00:11:44,160 Speaker 1: I thought I was good at this. 180 00:11:44,400 --> 00:11:47,200 Speaker 3: They didn't even recognize me, they didn't even see me. 181 00:11:47,320 --> 00:11:50,800 Speaker 3: They just ignored any attempt that I made. And what 182 00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:54,920 Speaker 3: is wrong with me? I thought I was good with relationships. 183 00:11:55,240 --> 00:11:58,960 Speaker 3: So that is an area that I think is common 184 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:02,400 Speaker 3: for many of us. We live in a society that 185 00:12:02,600 --> 00:12:05,520 Speaker 3: we have these groups that are already formed and we 186 00:12:05,559 --> 00:12:09,800 Speaker 3: want to belong. That is an innate nature within us. 187 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:13,320 Speaker 3: But when I start looking to other people to satisfy 188 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:15,400 Speaker 3: that need to tell me that I'm enough and that 189 00:12:15,480 --> 00:12:19,160 Speaker 3: I'm seen, boy, that just leads me down that shame 190 00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:21,160 Speaker 3: path and then I don't want to try it all. 191 00:12:21,720 --> 00:12:24,560 Speaker 2: I had something similar happened, but it wasn't with a 192 00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:28,719 Speaker 2: group that was already formed. I was in a situation 193 00:12:29,320 --> 00:12:34,240 Speaker 2: recently at an event, and two separate times within a day, 194 00:12:34,679 --> 00:12:38,200 Speaker 2: I was involved in conversation one on one with somebody. 195 00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:41,920 Speaker 2: It was at both times they were good conversations, and 196 00:12:42,080 --> 00:12:45,319 Speaker 2: someone else walked up and started talking to the person 197 00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:48,600 Speaker 2: that I had been engaged in conversation with and just 198 00:12:48,679 --> 00:12:54,080 Speaker 2: completely ignored my presence, didn't turn to me, didn't talk 199 00:12:54,120 --> 00:12:58,479 Speaker 2: to me. Even when I tried to engage in that conversation, 200 00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:02,760 Speaker 2: I was met as if I was being dismissed, and 201 00:13:02,840 --> 00:13:06,600 Speaker 2: without recognizing it in the moment, Jessica, I walked away 202 00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:11,560 Speaker 2: feeling ashamed, feeling like there was something wrong with me. Now, 203 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:14,240 Speaker 2: I have to say, these two people didn't know me, 204 00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:16,920 Speaker 2: so they didn't know enough about me to know if 205 00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:20,040 Speaker 2: there was something wrong with me. But that was the 206 00:13:20,120 --> 00:13:25,079 Speaker 2: message I heard in my head. It was unimportant, there 207 00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:29,160 Speaker 2: was something wrong with me, and it led to significant shame. 208 00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:33,600 Speaker 2: So I think what both of our experiences show is 209 00:13:33,640 --> 00:13:37,079 Speaker 2: that we need to be on guard for the lies 210 00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:40,760 Speaker 2: from the enemy when we're in the presence of the others. 211 00:13:40,840 --> 00:13:44,240 Speaker 2: But to your point, we need to be very careful 212 00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:50,360 Speaker 2: about looking to other valuable people to try to establish 213 00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:51,240 Speaker 2: our worth. 214 00:13:51,480 --> 00:13:54,160 Speaker 3: Oh that is so good, Michelle, Thank you for sharing. 215 00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:54,640 Speaker 1: Friends. 216 00:13:54,679 --> 00:13:56,800 Speaker 3: We are going to take a short break for a 217 00:13:56,840 --> 00:14:00,079 Speaker 3: brief word from our sponsor, but stick with us to 218 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:03,959 Speaker 3: hear a hope filled perspective regarding how to break free 219 00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:04,800 Speaker 3: from shame. 220 00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:10,079 Speaker 1: Okay, it is time to get practical. 221 00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:15,720 Speaker 3: For the person listening right now carrying shame from mistakes, abuse, 222 00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:17,559 Speaker 3: or failure, what can. 223 00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:18,840 Speaker 1: They do to begin healing. 224 00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:22,200 Speaker 2: This may be the most important part of this episode. 225 00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:25,000 Speaker 2: I agree, because it's one thing to be able to 226 00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:26,160 Speaker 2: recognize shame. 227 00:14:26,280 --> 00:14:26,680 Speaker 1: Mm hmm. 228 00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:28,760 Speaker 2: But I think so often we don't know what to 229 00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:31,680 Speaker 2: do about it. So here are a few steps that 230 00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:37,000 Speaker 2: combine neuroscience with faith. The first thing I would recommend 231 00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:43,160 Speaker 2: is name it. Awareness is very powerful. When you say 232 00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:49,280 Speaker 2: this is shame that I'm feeling, it actually quiets the amygdala, 233 00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:52,160 Speaker 2: that part of the brain we talked about that's responsible 234 00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:56,640 Speaker 2: for fight, flight or freeze. So naming our emotions brings 235 00:14:56,680 --> 00:15:02,160 Speaker 2: our rational brain back online. So name it number two, 236 00:15:02,880 --> 00:15:09,000 Speaker 2: replace the lies with truth. Shame says I'm unworthy, but 237 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:14,920 Speaker 2: God says, I am fearfully and wonderfully made. Write that down, friends, 238 00:15:14,920 --> 00:15:19,040 Speaker 2: Psalm one thirty nine, Verse fourteen. God declared you are 239 00:15:19,240 --> 00:15:22,600 Speaker 2: fearfully and wonderfully made. And I have found that writing 240 00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:27,160 Speaker 2: down scriptures and declaring them rewires the brain over time 241 00:15:27,240 --> 00:15:30,760 Speaker 2: because we're interrupting an old, faulty message. 242 00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:31,400 Speaker 1: It's good. 243 00:15:31,720 --> 00:15:34,120 Speaker 2: So the first tip was name it. Second tip was 244 00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:40,280 Speaker 2: replaced the lives with truth. Third, practice self compassion. It's 245 00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:45,720 Speaker 2: easier sometimes, I think jess to display compassion to another. Yes, 246 00:15:46,040 --> 00:15:53,160 Speaker 2: but shame thrives on harsh criticism. So treat yourself as 247 00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:57,040 Speaker 2: you would treat a dear friend. This isn't just fluffy. 248 00:15:57,160 --> 00:16:03,320 Speaker 2: It actually changes our brain chemistry when we can invoke 249 00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:05,920 Speaker 2: some compassion towards ourselves. 250 00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:06,480 Speaker 1: So good. 251 00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:10,240 Speaker 2: So number one, name it, number two, replace the lies 252 00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:15,640 Speaker 2: with truth number three, practice self compassion. Number four. Seek 253 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:19,800 Speaker 2: safe connection. As we were talking about Jessica, shame isolates, 254 00:16:19,880 --> 00:16:25,800 Speaker 2: it does, but healing comes in community. Vulnerability with safe 255 00:16:25,840 --> 00:16:30,120 Speaker 2: people breaks shame's power. Now I say safe people because 256 00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:33,440 Speaker 2: we're not called to be vulnerable with everyone, right and 257 00:16:33,560 --> 00:16:39,960 Speaker 2: not everyone will hold our confidences confidential. You know, we've 258 00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:42,320 Speaker 2: both been part of the church. Where sometimes when we 259 00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:45,560 Speaker 2: share confidential things they become an open prayer request or 260 00:16:45,680 --> 00:16:49,800 Speaker 2: gossip line. Yes, so I'm talking about being vulnerable with 261 00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:55,160 Speaker 2: safe people. And then the fifth tip is engage in 262 00:16:55,200 --> 00:17:01,520 Speaker 2: praise and worship because science has shown that prayer, gratitude, 263 00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:06,720 Speaker 2: and worship calm the nervous system. So spiritually, they also 264 00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:10,560 Speaker 2: align us with God's truth, and they remind us of 265 00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:14,240 Speaker 2: God's presence and what He's done for us. 266 00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:18,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, I love how each of these steps 267 00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:21,240 Speaker 3: addresses both the brain and the heart. And as you 268 00:17:21,320 --> 00:17:25,480 Speaker 3: were talking about the amygdala and I thought, wow, it's 269 00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:28,359 Speaker 3: like we can't control when that light switch gets turned on, 270 00:17:28,560 --> 00:17:30,840 Speaker 3: you know how you said it lights up. Yes, but 271 00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:34,520 Speaker 3: it seems like we have the choice to flip that 272 00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:38,119 Speaker 3: light switch off. Through these steps we do so I 273 00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:41,800 Speaker 3: feel so free now too. I don't have to be 274 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:44,640 Speaker 3: bossed around by shame. When I'm feeling like I am 275 00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:48,080 Speaker 3: a mistake or I am not enough, I can just 276 00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:51,160 Speaker 3: go ahead and say no, I'm gonna shut that off. 277 00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:55,199 Speaker 3: Yes I feel it, but I'm gonna believe the truth. 278 00:17:55,320 --> 00:17:58,600 Speaker 3: I'm gonna practice self compassion. I feel like you've given 279 00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:02,879 Speaker 3: us really excellent tools to how to break free from shame. 280 00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:03,879 Speaker 1: So thank you. 281 00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:09,399 Speaker 3: So Michelle, You've walked alongside countless people in their healing journey, 282 00:18:09,560 --> 00:18:12,120 Speaker 3: but you've also lived this yourself. 283 00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:14,760 Speaker 1: Would you share a time you wrestled with shame? 284 00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:19,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, one particular season comes to mind, when I was 285 00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:22,479 Speaker 2: really struggling with health issues that forced me to step 286 00:18:22,520 --> 00:18:26,160 Speaker 2: back from work. When that happened, I mean I loved 287 00:18:26,520 --> 00:18:32,080 Speaker 2: seeing patients and helping them and seeing positive change happened 288 00:18:32,119 --> 00:18:34,680 Speaker 2: in their life. But when I was struggling and had 289 00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:37,359 Speaker 2: to step back from that, for a time, I felt 290 00:18:37,359 --> 00:18:39,760 Speaker 2: like I was a failure. I felt like I was 291 00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:45,280 Speaker 2: failing my family, my patience, and even God, and shame whispered, 292 00:18:45,560 --> 00:18:49,160 Speaker 2: You're not enough your week. If you're not the doctor, 293 00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:53,560 Speaker 2: what good are you? But that season, Jessica taught me 294 00:18:53,800 --> 00:19:00,080 Speaker 2: that I had been hiding behind busyness to somehow establish 295 00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:04,600 Speaker 2: my worth, but inside I was drowning. And what really 296 00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:07,280 Speaker 2: changed me was getting to the place where I was 297 00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:10,760 Speaker 2: honest with God, when I would tell him about my 298 00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:16,320 Speaker 2: fears and allow safe friends to see behind the mask. Yeah, 299 00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:19,919 Speaker 2: as they reminded me of God's truth, I started to 300 00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:24,440 Speaker 2: believe again, and slowly I began to replace the lie 301 00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:28,080 Speaker 2: I am weak with the truth that when I am weak, 302 00:19:28,320 --> 00:19:33,240 Speaker 2: God is strong. And by slowly uprooting those lies about 303 00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:39,040 Speaker 2: my identity, my character, my worth with God's truth, freedom came. 304 00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:40,119 Speaker 1: Wow. 305 00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:43,720 Speaker 2: So what about you, Jessica, have you ever struggled with same? 306 00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:46,320 Speaker 1: I knew you were going to ask me that question. 307 00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:50,200 Speaker 2: Bring it into the light, my friend. 308 00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:51,760 Speaker 1: We're bringing it into the light. 309 00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:54,920 Speaker 3: And as you know, Michelle, that I have struggled with rejection, 310 00:19:55,119 --> 00:19:58,960 Speaker 3: fear of rejection, just being bossed around with it. And 311 00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:02,720 Speaker 3: one of the places that I struggled the most was 312 00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:05,000 Speaker 3: when I would walk into a room and I would 313 00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:06,320 Speaker 3: believe I didn't belong. 314 00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:08,640 Speaker 1: I would believe that I am. 315 00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:13,080 Speaker 3: Invisible, I am a mistake, I don't deserve to take 316 00:20:13,119 --> 00:20:17,600 Speaker 3: up space in this room, and it would inhibit my 317 00:20:18,359 --> 00:20:23,040 Speaker 3: natural ability to connect with others and to make relationships 318 00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:27,000 Speaker 3: happen or connect on a deeper level because I was 319 00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:30,919 Speaker 3: assuming that number one, they would never remember me. Like 320 00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:33,000 Speaker 3: I cannot tell you how many times that I've had 321 00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:35,879 Speaker 3: to I felt like I needed to reintroduce myself to 322 00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:38,520 Speaker 3: someone who I had like a two day conversation with 323 00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:42,120 Speaker 3: at some conference last year, and and it's just this 324 00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:46,080 Speaker 3: weird place to be, to know that I don't even 325 00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:49,919 Speaker 3: think I am free to breathe, or think, or have 326 00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:52,879 Speaker 3: an opinion or really even have the right to be 327 00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:56,119 Speaker 3: in this space that I just I just felt like 328 00:20:56,160 --> 00:20:59,440 Speaker 3: I wore this scarlet R. I remember reading the Scarlet 329 00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:03,640 Speaker 3: Letter back in high school for literature class and she 330 00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:06,919 Speaker 3: had to wear a scarlet S on her chest. 331 00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:08,160 Speaker 1: I felt like, I. 332 00:21:08,119 --> 00:21:11,199 Speaker 3: Wear a scarlet R and that everyone can see it 333 00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:14,359 Speaker 3: and they're just going to automatically reject me before they 334 00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:17,399 Speaker 3: even get to know me. And what really changed for 335 00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:23,760 Speaker 3: me was beginning to understand how much God delights in me. 336 00:21:24,119 --> 00:21:26,480 Speaker 3: I know he loves me, I know he's with me, 337 00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:31,199 Speaker 3: I know that Jesus cares so deeply for me. But 338 00:21:31,359 --> 00:21:35,480 Speaker 3: delight that was a different concept. When you delight in something, 339 00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:38,359 Speaker 3: it's like you get excited to be involved in it. 340 00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:42,199 Speaker 3: And the idea that God was excited about me, that 341 00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:45,679 Speaker 3: he doesn't forget me, that he calls me to this space, 342 00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:48,439 Speaker 3: He gave me breath. I have a right to breathe 343 00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:51,840 Speaker 3: the same air as everybody else. And finally, what changed 344 00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:53,560 Speaker 3: for me and I still do it to this day, 345 00:21:54,040 --> 00:22:00,280 Speaker 3: is I picture the standard of an army, the flag 346 00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:04,040 Speaker 3: when you go into have a victory. The ancient armies 347 00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:07,200 Speaker 3: would have their standards, meaning they'd have their big flags 348 00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:10,040 Speaker 3: on poles. Well, Jesus or the Lord is our banner. 349 00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:13,360 Speaker 3: That his banner over me is love. And I picture 350 00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:18,760 Speaker 3: myself walking around with that banner over me. And when 351 00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:21,240 Speaker 3: I am nervous, or when I'm starting to feel like, oh, 352 00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:24,160 Speaker 3: I don't deserve to be here, I am not enough, 353 00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:28,639 Speaker 3: I am already rejected, I picture that banner over me. 354 00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:32,480 Speaker 3: His banner over me is love, and I can walk 355 00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:35,720 Speaker 3: into this room and it doesn't matter if people like 356 00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:38,919 Speaker 3: me or see me, accept me, or reject me. God, 357 00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:43,760 Speaker 3: my God receives, accepts me, loves me, delights in me, 358 00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:47,159 Speaker 3: and it's his banner over me is love. And that 359 00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:50,440 Speaker 3: just gives me the courage to remember to walk in victory, 360 00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:55,720 Speaker 3: to remember that I don't need to fear other people's 361 00:22:55,800 --> 00:23:00,400 Speaker 3: assumptions possible rejections. I don't even need to reject myself 362 00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:02,880 Speaker 3: on behalf of someone else like I used to do. 363 00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:06,320 Speaker 3: That's a different story, but all of that entailed I 364 00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:09,919 Speaker 3: would feel so full of shame because there was I 365 00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:13,560 Speaker 3: felt there was I was inherently wrong. But God and 366 00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:17,160 Speaker 3: walking under his banner has shown me that I have 367 00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:20,760 Speaker 3: the right to this space. He's placed me here, He's 368 00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:24,560 Speaker 3: planted my feet, and I'm gonna walk in that confidence. 369 00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:25,439 Speaker 1: You talked about. 370 00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:28,399 Speaker 2: It was a little bit more difficult for you to 371 00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:32,840 Speaker 2: accept that God delighted in you. Yeah, and I think 372 00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:36,480 Speaker 2: that is the case for so many of us. But 373 00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:39,040 Speaker 2: that's when we have to stand on the truth. There's 374 00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:41,960 Speaker 2: a scripture. I think it's in Deuteronomy, but my memory 375 00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:45,119 Speaker 2: escapes me right now, but it says that God delights 376 00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:46,800 Speaker 2: over us with singing. 377 00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:53,480 Speaker 3: Yes, so it's Zephaniah three seventeen. He delights, He dances 378 00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:57,080 Speaker 3: over each of us. So, Michelle, if a listener or 379 00:23:57,240 --> 00:24:01,760 Speaker 3: viewer is resonating with our conversation, what hope filled perspective 380 00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:05,200 Speaker 3: would you give to the listener or viewer who feels 381 00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:06,560 Speaker 3: buried under shame? 382 00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:07,200 Speaker 1: Right now? 383 00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:13,080 Speaker 2: Friends, shame may be loud and at times even deafening, 384 00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:17,800 Speaker 2: but it is not your identity. Your mistakes, your past, 385 00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:23,320 Speaker 2: your wounds, your scars, they don't define you. God does. Yeah, 386 00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:29,680 Speaker 2: and he says you are chosen, beloved, forgiven, and free. Yeah. 387 00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:34,880 Speaker 2: Neuroscience says your brain can change. Scripture says your spirit 388 00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:39,000 Speaker 2: can be renewed. So no matter how long you've lived 389 00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:42,520 Speaker 2: under shame, it doesn't have to be your story. Freedom 390 00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:45,800 Speaker 2: is possible. And if you were struggling with shame, I 391 00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:48,960 Speaker 2: would just encourage you to pick up a copy of 392 00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:52,960 Speaker 2: my book Sacred Scars, resting in God's promise that your 393 00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:56,359 Speaker 2: past is not wasted because we take a deeper dive 394 00:24:56,720 --> 00:24:59,640 Speaker 2: into what is shame, where does it come from? And 395 00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:02,720 Speaker 2: how all can we break free from it? We'll put 396 00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:05,240 Speaker 2: the link to that in the show notes. But I 397 00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:07,879 Speaker 2: want to leave you with this scripture today, and that 398 00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:12,040 Speaker 2: is Isaiah fifty four, verse four. Do not be afraid. 399 00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:16,640 Speaker 2: You will not be put to shame. Do not fear disgrace, 400 00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:22,200 Speaker 2: You will not be humiliated. Jess, would you mind closing 401 00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:26,520 Speaker 2: out today's episode and praying for our listener or viewer 402 00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:30,359 Speaker 2: who's resonating and recognizes that, yeah, they've been dealing with 403 00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:30,879 Speaker 2: some shame. 404 00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:33,679 Speaker 3: Oh, I would be honored. Let's just go to the 405 00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:37,239 Speaker 3: Lord in prayer. Heavenly Fathers, thank you so much that 406 00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:40,280 Speaker 3: you have made a way for our hearts to be 407 00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:44,200 Speaker 3: made new, our minds to be renewed. Lord, you transform us. 408 00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:44,600 Speaker 1: Lord. 409 00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:50,359 Speaker 3: Shame is a destructive, powerful tool. And weapon of the enemy. Lord, 410 00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:54,840 Speaker 3: but you are the ultimate victory. You give us victory. So, Lord, 411 00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:57,840 Speaker 3: I ask that you would settle within the person who's 412 00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:01,240 Speaker 3: listening today, who feels like they are a mistake, where 413 00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:04,960 Speaker 3: they have confused their missteps in life and have absorbed 414 00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:07,800 Speaker 3: them as their identity. Lord, that you would remind them 415 00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:10,680 Speaker 3: that you love them with an everlasting love, that you 416 00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:13,720 Speaker 3: see them, that you come near to them, that you 417 00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:17,439 Speaker 3: delight in them. To delight means to bend toward, to 418 00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:21,840 Speaker 3: incline toward. Lord. I pray that they would receive your comfort. Lord, 419 00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:24,800 Speaker 3: that as you bend toward them, that they would bend 420 00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:27,480 Speaker 3: towards you, and in the doing, Lord, that they would 421 00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:31,679 Speaker 3: remember to show self compassion, to praise you, to worship you, 422 00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:35,000 Speaker 3: to name what they're feeling, to actually admit, Lord, I 423 00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:37,960 Speaker 3: feel like I am a mistake. So that Lord, you 424 00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:41,119 Speaker 3: can speak your truth to them. Lord, fill them with 425 00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:43,840 Speaker 3: your power, fill them with your love, fill them with 426 00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:46,880 Speaker 3: your joy, fill them with your victory. Lord, help them 427 00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:50,080 Speaker 3: to stand on the truth that they are fearfully and 428 00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:52,800 Speaker 3: wonderfully made, and that when they look to you, their 429 00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:57,240 Speaker 3: faces are radiant and not covered in shame, in Jesus name, 430 00:26:57,280 --> 00:26:57,720 Speaker 3: we pray. 431 00:26:57,880 --> 00:26:58,280 Speaker 1: Amen. 432 00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:02,800 Speaker 2: Amen, Thank you Jessica. Friends, I really hope that there 433 00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:07,080 Speaker 2: was something in today's episode that encouraged you and gave 434 00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:10,600 Speaker 2: you a hope filed perspective. If you know someone who 435 00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:14,239 Speaker 2: struggles with shame, would you consider sharing this episode with 436 00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:17,600 Speaker 2: them to give them a biblically based hope filed perspective. 437 00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:20,720 Speaker 2: I'm looking forward to being with you again next week, 438 00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:23,760 Speaker 2: but you know it's my prayer for you that until 439 00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:26,479 Speaker 2: then that you have a hope filled. 440 00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:32,679 Speaker 4: Your ragged and torn past may be the key to 441 00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:37,719 Speaker 4: God's future for you. We all endure trials, pain, and 442 00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:43,360 Speaker 4: hardship in this life. Too often we believe these experiences 443 00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:46,000 Speaker 4: disqualify us from being. 444 00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:46,879 Speaker 1: Useful to God. 445 00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:51,760 Speaker 4: But the truth is your past pain and brokenness serve 446 00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:56,240 Speaker 4: as preparation for what God wants to do in and 447 00:27:56,440 --> 00:28:02,680 Speaker 4: through you. If you will surrender to can trust Him 448 00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:08,280 Speaker 4: In Sacred scars. Neuropsychologist and fellow sufferer, doctor Michelle Thankson 449 00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:13,800 Speaker 4: helps you understand the suffering from a biblical perspective, discover 450 00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:17,639 Speaker 4: how the trials of your life serve a purpose, reflect 451 00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:22,280 Speaker 4: on the healing that God has accomplished, and comfort others 452 00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:26,640 Speaker 4: but the comfort God has given you. Just as Jesus's 453 00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:32,000 Speaker 4: scars didn't disappear after his resurrection and confirmed that he 454 00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:35,200 Speaker 4: was who he said he was and that he did 455 00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:39,600 Speaker 4: what he said he'd do, Our emotional or physical scars 456 00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:44,480 Speaker 4: tell our story and lend credence to our testimony of 457 00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:48,880 Speaker 4: God's love and power. If you are ready to turn 458 00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:53,400 Speaker 4: your past pain into present comfort and future hope, let 459 00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:59,120 Speaker 4: doctor Benkson be your compassionate guide. Jill Savage, host of 460 00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:03,080 Speaker 4: the No More Perfect podcast and author of No More 461 00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:08,480 Speaker 4: Perfect Marriages, have this to say about Sacred Scars. While 462 00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:11,840 Speaker 4: we wish for a pain free life, the dark seasons 463 00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:15,800 Speaker 4: are where God invites us into the most growth. In 464 00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:18,760 Speaker 4: the pages of this book, you will come to understand 465 00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:23,560 Speaker 4: how God uses pain in powerful ways. If you're human, 466 00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:27,960 Speaker 4: you need this book. Pick up a copy of Sacred 467 00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:32,400 Speaker 4: Scars wherever books are sold, and watch God turn your 468 00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:34,160 Speaker 4: pain into purpose. 469 00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:40,920 Speaker 5: Thank you for joining doctor Bankson for your hope build perspective. 470 00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:45,480 Speaker 5: We hope you are encouraged by her authenticity, vulnerability, and 471 00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:49,400 Speaker 5: biblical truths. If you enjoy today's conversation, When you take 472 00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:52,800 Speaker 5: a moment right now, open up your podcast app and 473 00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:55,560 Speaker 5: look for the subscribe button right next to our podcast 474 00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:59,320 Speaker 5: profile image. We think this podcast is best enjoyed with friends, 475 00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:02,640 Speaker 5: so tell and click share in your podcast app and 476 00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:05,600 Speaker 5: send a friend our link to share Hope with them. 477 00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:08,640 Speaker 5: If you have a comment, question, or suggest a topic 478 00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:11,360 Speaker 5: for a future show, reach out to our staff at 479 00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:15,920 Speaker 5: info at Hope Prevails dot org for additional resources. Information 480 00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:20,040 Speaker 5: about doctor Bankson's books where free downloads, or to contact 481 00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:23,320 Speaker 5: her to speak at your next event, Please visit doctor 482 00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:27,000 Speaker 5: Michelbe dot com. Until next time, May you have a 483 00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:28,600 Speaker 5: Hope billedweek. 484 00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:34,040 Speaker 2: I'd like to take just a second to thank the 485 00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:37,040 Speaker 2: team at Life Audio for their partnership with us on 486 00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:40,000 Speaker 2: this podcast. If you go to lifeaudio dot com, you'll 487 00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:43,720 Speaker 2: find dozens of other faith centered podcasts in their network. 488 00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:47,640 Speaker 2: They've got shows about prayer, Bible study, parenting, and more.