1 00:00:02,680 --> 00:00:06,680 Speaker 1: Life audio if I was suicidal, self harming, and it 2 00:00:06,760 --> 00:00:10,360 Speaker 1: is a miracle that God intervened at that point in time. 3 00:00:10,440 --> 00:00:13,760 Speaker 1: I didn't know it was him, but looking back, there 4 00:00:13,800 --> 00:00:16,079 Speaker 1: was always this still small voice that would tell me 5 00:00:16,200 --> 00:00:18,439 Speaker 1: one more day, give me one more day. 6 00:00:18,800 --> 00:00:21,520 Speaker 2: Welcome to the Faith over Fear podcast, where we discussed 7 00:00:21,680 --> 00:00:25,360 Speaker 2: powerful truths to quiet anxiety and fear big and small. 8 00:00:25,440 --> 00:00:29,200 Speaker 2: I'm Jennifer Slattery, and I know from messages I receive 9 00:00:29,480 --> 00:00:32,320 Speaker 2: and our most listened to episodes that many of you 10 00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:38,159 Speaker 2: are walking through really hard, emotionally exhausting, deeply discouraging seasons. 11 00:00:38,240 --> 00:00:40,360 Speaker 2: A season where helped me feel out of reach or 12 00:00:40,600 --> 00:00:44,760 Speaker 2: even dangerous, because opening ourselves to hope can feel like 13 00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:48,760 Speaker 2: risking further disappointment. And if that's where you're at, I 14 00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:52,920 Speaker 2: pray this episode with my wise and biblically grounded guest 15 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:57,800 Speaker 2: Kirby Kelly, encourages and nourishes your soul. My prayer is 16 00:00:57,840 --> 00:01:00,480 Speaker 2: that this episode reminds you of the promises, the heart 17 00:01:00,680 --> 00:01:03,640 Speaker 2: and the plans of the God of Hope, who never 18 00:01:04,120 --> 00:01:09,240 Speaker 2: ever abandons his children, but meets them right in their pain. Kirby, 19 00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:11,120 Speaker 2: thank you so much for joining us today. 20 00:01:11,520 --> 00:01:14,520 Speaker 3: Thank you for having me on. That's such a good introduction. 21 00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:19,119 Speaker 2: Thank you. I'm really excited for this conversation here. Kelly 22 00:01:19,240 --> 00:01:21,840 Speaker 2: is a Dallas based speaker, so she's warm right now 23 00:01:21,880 --> 00:01:24,640 Speaker 2: to all you people in the North. She's a podcast 24 00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:28,120 Speaker 2: host and content creator who's spent over a decade equipping 25 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:31,120 Speaker 2: a global audience with the truth of the Gospel. Holding 26 00:01:31,160 --> 00:01:35,000 Speaker 2: an MA in theology, she blended theological depth with cultural 27 00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:39,880 Speaker 2: relevance across platforms like Instagram, TikTok YouTube channel, and her 28 00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:43,840 Speaker 2: podcast Bot and Beloved It. Kirby is the author of 29 00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:46,920 Speaker 2: You Can Be Free and the book that we are 30 00:01:46,959 --> 00:01:51,920 Speaker 2: discussing today, The Fabric of Hope with w Publishing, both 31 00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:55,480 Speaker 2: of which inspire believers to live saved, set free, and 32 00:01:55,600 --> 00:01:58,600 Speaker 2: sent in their God given calling. I know where you're 33 00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:01,880 Speaker 2: at now, but read your book. You went through a shift, 34 00:02:01,920 --> 00:02:05,920 Speaker 2: So take us back when you were really struggling to 35 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:06,840 Speaker 2: hold tight to hope. 36 00:02:07,480 --> 00:02:10,200 Speaker 3: Oh my gosh. Yes. Well, first of all, thank you 37 00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:11,920 Speaker 3: for having me on the past. 38 00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:13,760 Speaker 1: I'm so thankful to be here and to just be 39 00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:16,560 Speaker 1: chatting with everyone, because, like you said, I think so 40 00:02:16,680 --> 00:02:20,880 Speaker 1: many of us desperately need hope in one. 41 00:02:20,760 --> 00:02:24,240 Speaker 3: Area, maybe even many areas. Of our life. That was me. 42 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:27,120 Speaker 1: I feel like I was kind of born into chaos. 43 00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:29,959 Speaker 1: My dad was an addict. He was an alcoholic. Wow, 44 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:33,800 Speaker 1: it was really bad what brought that upon our family. 45 00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:35,880 Speaker 1: He was already struggling with that for a while, but 46 00:02:35,919 --> 00:02:37,760 Speaker 1: we were living up in New Jersey at the time. 47 00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:39,920 Speaker 3: Nine to eleven happened, and. 48 00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:42,000 Speaker 1: That was like the straw that broke the camel's back 49 00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:45,440 Speaker 1: with my whole family, really, but especially my dad, having 50 00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:49,680 Speaker 1: worked in NYC, having been there, seen it, all those things. 51 00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:53,239 Speaker 3: It ruined my family. It ruined my father, and. 52 00:02:53,560 --> 00:02:55,160 Speaker 2: I'm so sorry, Oh thank you. 53 00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:58,000 Speaker 1: It eventually led to the divorce of my parents because 54 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:01,120 Speaker 1: of his drinking, and oddly enough, my mom's way of 55 00:03:01,160 --> 00:03:05,480 Speaker 1: coping with the divorce and my dad's addiction was taking 56 00:03:05,480 --> 00:03:08,440 Speaker 1: on drinking herself, so she then became an alcoholic. So 57 00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:13,080 Speaker 1: my entire life from the beginning was I was submerged 58 00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:16,519 Speaker 1: in chaos where it felt like everything was unstable. 59 00:03:17,160 --> 00:03:19,880 Speaker 3: I didn't know if I was safe or not. I 60 00:03:19,880 --> 00:03:21,040 Speaker 3: didn't really feel safe. 61 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:25,240 Speaker 1: And even though I had some faith integrated into my life, 62 00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:28,760 Speaker 1: like I would say my nightly prayers, and I grew 63 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:29,880 Speaker 1: up Catholic up North. 64 00:03:29,880 --> 00:03:32,000 Speaker 3: You're really out a Jewish or Catholic when you're up there. 65 00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:35,360 Speaker 1: I kind of knew, like some of the nuances here 66 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:38,360 Speaker 1: and there, but didn't really understand the gospel. 67 00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:41,040 Speaker 3: Didn't have a relationship with Jesus. 68 00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:44,360 Speaker 1: None of that really existed until I was fourteen years 69 00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:45,480 Speaker 1: old living in Texas. 70 00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:48,000 Speaker 2: So you fell all alone completely. 71 00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:49,160 Speaker 3: Absolutely. 72 00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:53,840 Speaker 1: I really felt hopeless from childhood in that aspect of 73 00:03:53,880 --> 00:03:59,680 Speaker 1: my life, of seeing my father's life whined by life itself, 74 00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:03,080 Speaker 1: the decisions that he made. Eventually the divorce of my parents, 75 00:04:03,120 --> 00:04:05,200 Speaker 1: like I said, and then when I was ten years old, 76 00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:07,560 Speaker 1: my mom had custody over my brother and I. We 77 00:04:07,560 --> 00:04:10,080 Speaker 1: were living in Texas at that point, my dad passed 78 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:11,080 Speaker 1: away from his addiction. 79 00:04:11,320 --> 00:04:15,920 Speaker 3: I'm sorry, thank you. It was so hard on me. 80 00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:18,359 Speaker 1: I mean, the passing of anybody that you're close to, 81 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:20,839 Speaker 1: especially a parent, and then on top of that the 82 00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:24,520 Speaker 1: added layer of grieving someone who was struggling with addiction. Yeah, 83 00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:28,960 Speaker 1: I I did not know how to grieve with hope 84 00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:31,440 Speaker 1: and not really knowing how to navigate my life with hope. 85 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:33,919 Speaker 3: That eventually bled into my relationship with God. 86 00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:36,880 Speaker 1: In my view of God, the very limited view I 87 00:04:36,920 --> 00:04:39,760 Speaker 1: had of him at that time, which was. I don't 88 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:42,080 Speaker 1: know if I can trust you based on the things 89 00:04:42,080 --> 00:04:44,520 Speaker 1: that I've gone through. I know people say that you're good, 90 00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:47,559 Speaker 1: but my circumstance isn't good, So are you really good? 91 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:52,360 Speaker 1: Genuinely questioning the basis of who God was and kind 92 00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:55,520 Speaker 1: of ignoring it, brushing it under the rug, and striving 93 00:04:55,560 --> 00:04:58,960 Speaker 1: out of my own effort to maintain as much peace 94 00:04:59,240 --> 00:05:02,080 Speaker 1: and joints ability as I could manufacture. 95 00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:05,360 Speaker 3: As a lesson as a teenager, have you had. 96 00:05:05,279 --> 00:05:07,159 Speaker 2: To appreciate if you'd learned that from. 97 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:10,720 Speaker 1: A very young I was just scrappy, trying to make 98 00:05:10,760 --> 00:05:13,919 Speaker 1: it through the best that I knew how I go 99 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:14,880 Speaker 1: through middle school. 100 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:17,640 Speaker 3: Middle school is middle school, the highs and lows of 101 00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:20,200 Speaker 3: it all. But it was really hard on me. 102 00:05:20,279 --> 00:05:24,560 Speaker 1: I started getting bullied by people in my school, specifically 103 00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:28,760 Speaker 1: like close friends of mine, very like frenemies vibes, to 104 00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:32,120 Speaker 1: the point where I just truthfully. 105 00:05:31,680 --> 00:05:32,760 Speaker 3: Wanted to end my life. 106 00:05:32,839 --> 00:05:36,600 Speaker 1: I was suicidal, self harming, and it is a miracle 107 00:05:36,960 --> 00:05:39,880 Speaker 1: that God intervened at that point in time. I didn't 108 00:05:39,920 --> 00:05:43,159 Speaker 1: know it was him, but looking back, there was always 109 00:05:43,200 --> 00:05:46,040 Speaker 1: this still small voice that would tell me one more day, 110 00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:48,800 Speaker 1: give me one more day, and I know that's God. 111 00:05:48,920 --> 00:05:50,320 Speaker 1: I would argue with that voice. I'd be like, I 112 00:05:50,360 --> 00:05:52,160 Speaker 1: don't want to give it one more day. I do 113 00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:54,880 Speaker 1: not want to be alive. And it's crazy to think 114 00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:59,560 Speaker 1: I was thirteen dealing with this, So it's very real 115 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:04,280 Speaker 1: children adults struggling with mental health because of the hardships 116 00:06:04,279 --> 00:06:07,320 Speaker 1: of life. And I really had barely any hope left 117 00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:10,400 Speaker 1: other than whatever this inkling was, which I now know 118 00:06:10,560 --> 00:06:15,000 Speaker 1: was God. And at fourteen, graduating eighth grade, going into 119 00:06:15,160 --> 00:06:17,479 Speaker 1: ninth grade, it was when I was fourteen that I 120 00:06:17,680 --> 00:06:19,640 Speaker 1: had a radical encounter with God. 121 00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:22,240 Speaker 3: I went to a Christian summer camp. Start going to 122 00:06:22,279 --> 00:06:23,440 Speaker 3: that camp right after. 123 00:06:23,279 --> 00:06:26,520 Speaker 1: My dad died, actually, and for the first time in 124 00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:29,200 Speaker 1: my life, after attending that camp for a couple summers, 125 00:06:29,640 --> 00:06:34,440 Speaker 1: it was that that year that I realized God, I 126 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:37,600 Speaker 1: need you, Like there's so much going on in my life. 127 00:06:37,640 --> 00:06:40,160 Speaker 1: There has been so much going on in my life. 128 00:06:40,360 --> 00:06:43,640 Speaker 1: But every time I'm here at this camp and we're 129 00:06:43,680 --> 00:06:47,919 Speaker 1: reading the Word and we're singing worship and we're pursuing 130 00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:51,400 Speaker 1: You and I'm learning about You, I actually feel a 131 00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:54,400 Speaker 1: sense of peace, a sense of joy, a sense of hope. 132 00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:57,480 Speaker 1: Like I'm experiencing this but then when I go home 133 00:06:57,839 --> 00:06:59,680 Speaker 1: and I kind of get off like the Camp High 134 00:07:00,200 --> 00:07:03,160 Speaker 1: roller coaster, It's like everything kind of sinks back down, 135 00:07:03,200 --> 00:07:05,760 Speaker 1: and I was like, I don't want to leave this place, 136 00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:10,520 Speaker 1: not being changed, not inviting you in outside of camp. 137 00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:12,200 Speaker 1: So I gave my life to the Lord. To make 138 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:15,520 Speaker 1: that story short. But it was also shortly after that 139 00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:18,600 Speaker 1: my mom went through her first big relapse after being 140 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:21,920 Speaker 1: sober for a while. So the timing of that was 141 00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:26,000 Speaker 1: very interesting, very calculated on the enemy's end, but also 142 00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:28,640 Speaker 1: I think, very grace filled on God's end. 143 00:07:28,680 --> 00:07:30,480 Speaker 2: And can I pause you here for those who do 144 00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:32,640 Speaker 2: who don't understand, what do you mean by the enemy? 145 00:07:33,320 --> 00:07:34,800 Speaker 3: By the enemy, I mean satan. 146 00:07:35,080 --> 00:07:38,400 Speaker 1: I mean we have a very real enemy, knowing that 147 00:07:38,440 --> 00:07:40,600 Speaker 1: God has a plan for each and every single one 148 00:07:40,680 --> 00:07:43,440 Speaker 1: of us, and it's redemptive and it's beautiful. 149 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:47,720 Speaker 3: Satan. The enemy will attack us at any cost. 150 00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:51,680 Speaker 1: And I think through temptation, whether that's against us or 151 00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:54,400 Speaker 1: other people, or just systems and circumstances in our life, 152 00:07:54,440 --> 00:07:57,280 Speaker 1: those things can affect us. And for me, my mom 153 00:07:57,760 --> 00:08:00,560 Speaker 1: with her own free will, choosing to real lapse into 154 00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:03,800 Speaker 1: her addiction, choosing to give into that temptation, that affected me. 155 00:08:03,960 --> 00:08:06,040 Speaker 1: I mean, I was her kid, living at home with her, 156 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:09,920 Speaker 1: having to step up and parent my parent in many ways. Wow, 157 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:13,000 Speaker 1: it was so interesting to navigate that season because I 158 00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:15,920 Speaker 1: grieved without hope with my dad and I lived life 159 00:08:15,920 --> 00:08:18,280 Speaker 1: without hope because I was living life without Jesus. 160 00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:21,240 Speaker 3: But now I had this hope in Jesus. 161 00:08:21,040 --> 00:08:24,160 Speaker 1: For me, and it was interesting to navigate what that 162 00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:27,360 Speaker 1: looked like to not only have hope for Jesus for salvation, 163 00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:31,040 Speaker 1: but also hope in Jesus in the midst of my suffering. 164 00:08:31,560 --> 00:08:34,160 Speaker 1: And so that journey really began when I was in 165 00:08:34,320 --> 00:08:37,520 Speaker 1: high school, all throughout college and now even into my 166 00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:38,240 Speaker 1: adult life. 167 00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:39,959 Speaker 3: And I detail a lot of that in the Book 168 00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:42,240 Speaker 3: of Just the Truths. 169 00:08:41,800 --> 00:08:45,160 Speaker 1: That I've been able to learn and believe, actually have 170 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:49,840 Speaker 1: true conviction of and believe in every circumstance of my 171 00:08:49,960 --> 00:08:53,440 Speaker 1: life about who God is, and that my hope is 172 00:08:53,520 --> 00:08:56,760 Speaker 1: in Him, not the things that are ever changing and 173 00:08:57,320 --> 00:09:00,800 Speaker 1: faulty and frail and just flimsy in life. I've been 174 00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:04,040 Speaker 1: able to navigate all the different nuances of different seasons, 175 00:09:04,040 --> 00:09:07,880 Speaker 1: different hurts, heartbreaks, trauma's trials, whatever you name it, but 176 00:09:08,160 --> 00:09:14,320 Speaker 1: also have this abounding, steadfast always present hope because now 177 00:09:14,360 --> 00:09:16,679 Speaker 1: I have the God of Hope in my life, and 178 00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:19,720 Speaker 1: I detail a lot about in my book, but I'll 179 00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:22,280 Speaker 1: just wrap it up right there so you can ask any. 180 00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:25,160 Speaker 2: Questions, y well, And what I just want to like 181 00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:27,560 Speaker 2: to our listeners because sometimes we hear like, Okay, we've 182 00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:29,800 Speaker 2: got an enemy and we're in a spiritual battle, and 183 00:09:29,880 --> 00:09:33,840 Speaker 2: I can feel really overwhelming and frightening. However, where again, 184 00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:36,400 Speaker 2: this whole podcast episode is talking about the God of 185 00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:39,480 Speaker 2: Hope who reigns overall. So yes, we have an enemy 186 00:09:39,520 --> 00:09:42,280 Speaker 2: who comes after us, but we have an even bigger God. 187 00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:45,319 Speaker 2: So to those listening who maybe haven't made the choice 188 00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:48,000 Speaker 2: to follow Jesus, maybe that's an awareness to look up. 189 00:09:48,040 --> 00:09:50,600 Speaker 2: How is he reaching for me? And how might He 190 00:09:50,760 --> 00:09:55,600 Speaker 2: be preparing me giving me strength for a season that 191 00:09:55,600 --> 00:09:59,120 Speaker 2: that could have literally destroyed you, like you know, and 192 00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:03,040 Speaker 2: God stepped in and gave you strength and hope and 193 00:10:03,160 --> 00:10:07,880 Speaker 2: encouragement before the rest of your world imploded. 194 00:10:08,920 --> 00:10:11,440 Speaker 1: Well, I even just want to encourage anybody out there 195 00:10:11,440 --> 00:10:15,080 Speaker 1: who might be like teetering on faith or questioning faith, 196 00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:18,720 Speaker 1: or wondering about faith in Jesus. I think that some 197 00:10:18,920 --> 00:10:22,880 Speaker 1: of us, especially if we've gone through hard things. We 198 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:25,240 Speaker 1: almost make this like I don't want to say bet 199 00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:29,200 Speaker 1: with God, but it's like, okay, God, here's my exchange, Like, 200 00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:32,280 Speaker 1: if you change my situation, then I'll follow you. If 201 00:10:32,280 --> 00:10:34,719 Speaker 1: you change my circumstance, then I'll trust in you. Then 202 00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:36,560 Speaker 1: I'll believe that you're the God of hope. Then I'll 203 00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:39,360 Speaker 1: believe that you're actually good, that you're actually all these things. 204 00:10:39,880 --> 00:10:41,640 Speaker 3: But it's actually in the. 205 00:10:41,360 --> 00:10:44,200 Speaker 1: Midst of our suffering that we need to make that 206 00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:47,760 Speaker 1: decision because we're not putting our hope in a circumstance. 207 00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:51,800 Speaker 1: We're putting my hope in a person that we're not 208 00:10:51,840 --> 00:10:54,720 Speaker 1: putting our hope in a circumstance. We're putting our hope 209 00:10:54,760 --> 00:10:58,320 Speaker 1: in the person of Jesus, the character of God who 210 00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:03,480 Speaker 1: steps into the hard things and brings about redemption. Sometimes 211 00:11:03,520 --> 00:11:06,440 Speaker 1: the resolution that he brings, the redemption that he brings, 212 00:11:06,440 --> 00:11:11,880 Speaker 1: the repurposing that he brings, unfolds with time, and that 213 00:11:11,960 --> 00:11:15,840 Speaker 1: I think is the hardest part about going through suffering. 214 00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:18,840 Speaker 3: But that's also the most beautiful. 215 00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:21,120 Speaker 1: Part about the hope we have in God, is that 216 00:11:21,280 --> 00:11:23,400 Speaker 1: even as we continue through it. 217 00:11:23,480 --> 00:11:25,840 Speaker 3: I mean, I was living at home with my mom. 218 00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:26,840 Speaker 3: It's not like I could. 219 00:11:26,880 --> 00:11:28,960 Speaker 1: I mean, I could have just like up and left 220 00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:32,160 Speaker 1: and gone through a whole other set of circumstances. 221 00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:32,679 Speaker 3: I'm sure. 222 00:11:34,600 --> 00:11:37,040 Speaker 1: Luckily, It's like, there are going to be things that 223 00:11:37,160 --> 00:11:41,000 Speaker 1: happen in life that are contingent on our choices, other 224 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:44,400 Speaker 1: people's choices, the environments, countries, cultures we live in, you 225 00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:48,200 Speaker 1: name it. Everything affects everything. It's this big butterfly effect, 226 00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:48,800 Speaker 1: if you will. 227 00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:50,440 Speaker 3: But the thing about. 228 00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:53,160 Speaker 1: God is that when we invite him in and we say, God, 229 00:11:53,280 --> 00:11:56,360 Speaker 1: I choose to trust in you in the midst of 230 00:11:56,400 --> 00:12:01,240 Speaker 1: this place, he can begin to work out red His 231 00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:04,320 Speaker 1: will might not always go your way, it might not 232 00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:07,679 Speaker 1: always be on your timeline, or or be like a 233 00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:08,680 Speaker 1: fabreeze fix. 234 00:12:08,920 --> 00:12:10,840 Speaker 3: Oftentimes he's a pine soul God. 235 00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:15,640 Speaker 1: Where he's really getting in there, works real deep clean. 236 00:12:16,960 --> 00:12:19,280 Speaker 1: But it's in that time, it's in that process, it's 237 00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:22,520 Speaker 1: in that place of inviting him into the middle of 238 00:12:22,559 --> 00:12:26,360 Speaker 1: it as you're going through it, that the intimacy with God, 239 00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:31,200 Speaker 1: your relationship with God, builds, flourishes, You actually build a 240 00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:37,240 Speaker 1: foundation of trust with God. You actually grow in character 241 00:12:37,400 --> 00:12:41,200 Speaker 1: of becoming a new person, of actually growing an empathy 242 00:12:41,480 --> 00:12:44,280 Speaker 1: for these people who wronged you. I mean, there is 243 00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:48,160 Speaker 1: so much that happens in the middle of our suffering 244 00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:51,560 Speaker 1: that once you actually go through it and get out 245 00:12:51,640 --> 00:12:54,920 Speaker 1: on the other side of redemption of what God ended 246 00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:57,920 Speaker 1: up doing, you look back and it's like, Wow, God, 247 00:12:58,240 --> 00:13:01,360 Speaker 1: that sucked in many ways. Yeah, but I'm also so 248 00:13:01,679 --> 00:13:05,440 Speaker 1: thankful that you met me in it and made something 249 00:13:05,559 --> 00:13:08,560 Speaker 1: with it. Yeah. And that's that's the testament of my life. 250 00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:11,320 Speaker 1: And it's also the testament of the many lives that 251 00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:13,040 Speaker 1: we read about throughout Scripture too. 252 00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:16,160 Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, I think also if you don't mind me 253 00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:19,840 Speaker 2: sharing your five months pregnant, yes I am. And your 254 00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:24,679 Speaker 2: life and your child's life is dramatically your child's life 255 00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:27,600 Speaker 2: is gonna be dramatically different than the life you had, 256 00:13:27,679 --> 00:13:31,240 Speaker 2: which would lead me to my next question as well. 257 00:13:31,280 --> 00:13:35,680 Speaker 2: But to our listeners listening, like, God is constantly moving 258 00:13:35,720 --> 00:13:39,520 Speaker 2: us towards increased life, increased hope, increased light, and he 259 00:13:39,679 --> 00:13:44,360 Speaker 2: breaks generational patterns that, apart from him, are going to perpetuate, 260 00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:48,240 Speaker 2: if not get worse, right, And so thinking of that, 261 00:13:48,400 --> 00:13:51,319 Speaker 2: how did why does hope play such an important role 262 00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:53,760 Speaker 2: in our lives and our relationships? 263 00:13:54,120 --> 00:13:57,680 Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, hope is so important because hope helps 264 00:13:57,720 --> 00:14:01,240 Speaker 1: us to endure circumstances when we don't have the answers, 265 00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:03,160 Speaker 1: when we don't get the answers as quick as we 266 00:14:03,280 --> 00:14:06,280 Speaker 1: hoped for. Well, the book is called the Fabric of Hope. 267 00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:10,840 Speaker 1: Originally when I pitched it, I had this working title 268 00:14:10,960 --> 00:14:14,320 Speaker 1: of Why God. And it's like this double entendre which 269 00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:16,680 Speaker 1: is woven throughout the book, like this is the foundation 270 00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:20,200 Speaker 1: the theology for all my Bible nerds out there. The 271 00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:23,800 Speaker 1: theology of the book is this question of why God, 272 00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:26,920 Speaker 1: Why would you allow these things to happen? But also 273 00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:30,520 Speaker 1: why God? Why am I going to choose God in 274 00:14:30,520 --> 00:14:32,720 Speaker 1: the midst of all these things happen. Yeah, so that's 275 00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:35,880 Speaker 1: the underlying theology of the book and the original working title. 276 00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:37,680 Speaker 3: But the Fabric of Hope, it sounds a little bit like. 277 00:14:37,640 --> 00:14:39,800 Speaker 2: I love it, right right, I love it. 278 00:14:39,880 --> 00:14:41,760 Speaker 3: I love it, especially with. 279 00:14:41,760 --> 00:14:47,040 Speaker 1: All the verbiage and illustrations throughout the book. But there 280 00:14:47,120 --> 00:14:49,840 Speaker 1: sometimes we ask those questions, why God? 281 00:14:50,080 --> 00:14:54,480 Speaker 3: When? God? How God? What eurp is God? 282 00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:57,680 Speaker 1: We have these questions, But Hope is the thing that 283 00:14:57,720 --> 00:14:59,560 Speaker 1: we can hold on to when we don't have the 284 00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:04,360 Speaker 1: answer to why or what or when I think, if anything, 285 00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:09,520 Speaker 1: Hope answers the question of who who, and it's God. 286 00:15:10,040 --> 00:15:14,880 Speaker 1: God is who we hope in, hope for hope forever 287 00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:18,760 Speaker 1: throughout the circumstances that we go through. And in my book, 288 00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:21,960 Speaker 1: I have these four pillars, if you will, these four 289 00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:25,160 Speaker 1: p's of what we need to put our hope in. 290 00:15:25,520 --> 00:15:29,680 Speaker 1: And it's the promises of God, the person of God, 291 00:15:29,880 --> 00:15:33,960 Speaker 1: the presence of God, and the patterns of God. That 292 00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:36,480 Speaker 1: is what we put our hope in. And it's important 293 00:15:36,520 --> 00:15:41,080 Speaker 1: that we put our hope in God's personhood, his patterns, 294 00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:45,120 Speaker 1: his promises, and his presence versus the other. Like I 295 00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:47,800 Speaker 1: said earlier, flimsy things in this world that do not 296 00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:54,360 Speaker 1: sustain that can change, that are sinful. Even when we 297 00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:58,800 Speaker 1: put our hope in God instead, there is not only 298 00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:03,920 Speaker 1: resolution in redemption, but He can actually bring meaning and 299 00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:06,600 Speaker 1: do miracles in the place where we are. 300 00:16:06,600 --> 00:16:08,080 Speaker 3: Experiencing the most pain. 301 00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:10,280 Speaker 1: So it is important that we hold on to hope 302 00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:14,000 Speaker 1: because hope pushes us forward in the promises of God, 303 00:16:14,080 --> 00:16:16,680 Speaker 1: in intimacy with God, and in the plans that He 304 00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:19,760 Speaker 1: has for us in the world. I don't think any 305 00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:23,000 Speaker 1: one of us wants to sit and live a stagnant 306 00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:26,120 Speaker 1: life in the pit for the rest of our lives. 307 00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:29,240 Speaker 1: We want to overcome, We want to get out of 308 00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:29,960 Speaker 1: this place. 309 00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:33,920 Speaker 3: But that looks like taking the. 310 00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:38,800 Speaker 1: Braving, daring to hope in you, in God, not me, 311 00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:42,720 Speaker 1: not those people that hurt you, not the systems or 312 00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:44,760 Speaker 1: cultures that you grew up in our communities. 313 00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:45,040 Speaker 3: You're in. 314 00:16:45,640 --> 00:16:50,000 Speaker 1: My hope is in Jesus, because he doesn't change. He's 315 00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:54,720 Speaker 1: consistent to his patterns, his personhood, his presence, and his promises. 316 00:16:54,880 --> 00:16:57,760 Speaker 2: Amen. Amen, Well, we're gonna take a brief message from 317 00:16:57,840 --> 00:17:00,840 Speaker 2: our sponsors, and when we get back, I would like 318 00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:03,040 Speaker 2: to hear for those who are listening, like I want that. 319 00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:05,280 Speaker 2: I don't know how to get it. It feels really hard. 320 00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:09,040 Speaker 2: I can't see past my depression. So when we get back, 321 00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:21,240 Speaker 2: I would love you to speak to that. When we're 322 00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:24,439 Speaker 2: talking on a podcast episode, it sounds really easy, right, like, 323 00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:26,600 Speaker 2: oh God is so good, and you've got promises and 324 00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:30,200 Speaker 2: those area I know, just just say prayer and we're fine. 325 00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:33,440 Speaker 2: But in real life, it doesn't always work that way. 326 00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:36,000 Speaker 2: So I want to hear from you when you're in 327 00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:39,840 Speaker 2: that place where maybe your emotions are trying to distort 328 00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:43,159 Speaker 2: your thinking, or your thoughts are lying to you, or 329 00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:46,919 Speaker 2: your circumstances are really making it hard to trust. What 330 00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:50,399 Speaker 2: are some ways that you really maintain in your books? 331 00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:53,280 Speaker 2: I do like you use a lot of Women and 332 00:17:53,359 --> 00:17:56,400 Speaker 2: Now and I really loved it and a unique take 333 00:17:56,440 --> 00:17:59,400 Speaker 2: on the on women analogies. So, speaking of that, how 334 00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:03,280 Speaker 2: when you've got this mound of lemons and you're making 335 00:18:03,359 --> 00:18:07,399 Speaker 2: lemonade and you've got glass maybe half empty, but so 336 00:18:07,480 --> 00:18:09,000 Speaker 2: then you need to look at it half full? What 337 00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:10,000 Speaker 2: do you do in those moments? 338 00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:12,800 Speaker 3: Yes, so I'm actually wearing my little lemon shirt. 339 00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:18,840 Speaker 2: Nice video, so like me and that, like maybe to listeners, 340 00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:21,560 Speaker 2: maybe it's just a little reminder on your mirror, on 341 00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:24,320 Speaker 2: your phone, whatever it is that Okay, I need to 342 00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:27,080 Speaker 2: intentionally show because it takes time to change our brain, right, 343 00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:30,520 Speaker 2: especially if you came from an environment like I'm listening 344 00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:35,120 Speaker 2: to your home. To survive, you have to stay on alert, 345 00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:38,680 Speaker 2: you have to be yeah, and so to then shift 346 00:18:38,760 --> 00:18:41,240 Speaker 2: your brain where you're like, Okay, I'm not alone anymore. 347 00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:46,240 Speaker 2: I'm not responsible for my survival. God is watching over me. 348 00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:48,879 Speaker 2: So in the middle of that, what are steps we 349 00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:49,320 Speaker 2: can take? 350 00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:53,040 Speaker 1: I think the first thing that we need to recognize 351 00:18:53,040 --> 00:18:56,639 Speaker 1: is that hope is not a personality trait, like maybe 352 00:18:56,680 --> 00:18:59,200 Speaker 1: you look at me and it's like, well, yeah, hope 353 00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:02,280 Speaker 1: comes easy to her. I'd be like, you should have 354 00:19:02,359 --> 00:19:06,359 Speaker 1: met me in tenth grade when I was suicidally my eyes. 355 00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:09,240 Speaker 3: Out at my astor's house, just being like what do 356 00:19:09,320 --> 00:19:11,680 Speaker 3: I do? What is God doing? 357 00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:14,679 Speaker 1: Like why isn't he answer my prayers? Like I have 358 00:19:14,840 --> 00:19:17,080 Speaker 1: been there. I mean I didn't get to this part 359 00:19:17,119 --> 00:19:19,800 Speaker 1: of my story either. My mom passed away a few 360 00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:23,359 Speaker 1: years ago, even from her addiction as well, amongst like 361 00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:26,240 Speaker 1: a couple other just traumatic things that happened to her. 362 00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:30,000 Speaker 1: And navigating that the grief of my mom while becoming 363 00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:30,679 Speaker 1: a mom. 364 00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:33,760 Speaker 3: Like, wow, I have had I have had my. 365 00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:36,800 Speaker 1: Days where it's like life is chucking lemons at my 366 00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:39,600 Speaker 1: face and I feel cruised. 367 00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:41,919 Speaker 2: Right and hormones have to be not helping. 368 00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:44,280 Speaker 3: No. 369 00:19:46,359 --> 00:19:48,679 Speaker 1: But when I say, you know, hope is not a 370 00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:53,040 Speaker 1: personality trait, it's a posture and it's a practice. It 371 00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:57,440 Speaker 1: is a posture before the Lord of choosing to trust 372 00:19:57,480 --> 00:20:01,600 Speaker 1: in him, of choosing to trust in who he is, 373 00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:04,320 Speaker 1: to have that confident conviction. I think the thing that 374 00:20:04,359 --> 00:20:07,920 Speaker 1: has helped me the most to go through that mindset 375 00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:12,360 Speaker 1: shift that you're talking about of actually believing and holding 376 00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:15,920 Speaker 1: onto hope looked like for me in the very beginning 377 00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:19,800 Speaker 1: reading the Word of God. And I know that sounds 378 00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:22,800 Speaker 1: so simple, but it's a simple gospel and it has 379 00:20:22,840 --> 00:20:25,159 Speaker 1: the most profound effect on our life. 380 00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:25,880 Speaker 3: Literally. 381 00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:26,600 Speaker 2: Yeah. 382 00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:29,480 Speaker 1: And whenever I would read the stories of people like 383 00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:34,680 Speaker 1: Job who went through intense suffering having not deserved it, 384 00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:35,920 Speaker 1: he never got a why. 385 00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:38,000 Speaker 3: God never told him this is why? 386 00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:42,280 Speaker 1: No, God gave him who I'm God, I'm I'm the 387 00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:43,760 Speaker 1: God of the universe. 388 00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:46,560 Speaker 3: And that was enough for Joke to be like, oh, 389 00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:48,919 Speaker 3: I trust in you. You know what you're doing. I 390 00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:52,359 Speaker 3: think about Joseph. And if you've never read the story 391 00:20:52,359 --> 00:20:55,280 Speaker 3: of Joseph, and you're going through the pit right now, 392 00:20:55,920 --> 00:20:57,720 Speaker 3: literally that is Joseph's story. 393 00:20:57,800 --> 00:20:59,359 Speaker 2: Yeah, Jenna says thirty seven. 394 00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:03,560 Speaker 1: I think to yes, Yes, I mean sold into slavery, 395 00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:08,440 Speaker 1: forgotten by his family, brothers, Pharaoh, I mean acute. 396 00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:10,560 Speaker 2: Eton left for Dad, really like really. 397 00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:13,439 Speaker 1: Accused of the worst stuff when he was an innocent man. 398 00:21:14,119 --> 00:21:16,560 Speaker 1: Yet we get to this point in his story where 399 00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:19,960 Speaker 1: he says, you know what, you all intended for evil 400 00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:23,760 Speaker 1: with the enemy intended for evil, God meant for good, 401 00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:28,000 Speaker 1: Like God used all those moments. I look at the 402 00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:32,080 Speaker 1: story of Paul. Paul had a continual thorn in his 403 00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:36,080 Speaker 1: flesh mind. He has a very incredible testimony of who 404 00:21:36,119 --> 00:21:38,600 Speaker 1: he was and who he is now or who he became. 405 00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:42,400 Speaker 1: And it's like he continued to go through suffering even 406 00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:46,240 Speaker 1: though he was one of the most faithful apostles, and 407 00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:49,639 Speaker 1: he still had hope in God in the midst of 408 00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:50,280 Speaker 1: his suffering. 409 00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:52,680 Speaker 3: And Hello Jesus. 410 00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:57,360 Speaker 1: Jesus has been the biggest picture for me of what 411 00:21:57,400 --> 00:22:01,440 Speaker 1: it looks like to endure suffering. Like, have we forgotten 412 00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:05,920 Speaker 1: that Jesus, being fully God but also fully man, went 413 00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:07,440 Speaker 1: to the cross. 414 00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:09,879 Speaker 3: To take on the full wrath of God. 415 00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:13,840 Speaker 1: We cannot even conceptualize that those of us who are saved, 416 00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:16,960 Speaker 1: and thank you God for that that he took on 417 00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:21,680 Speaker 1: the full weight of what sin and separation meant. Died 418 00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:26,960 Speaker 1: a brutal death that we deserved, but rose three days later, 419 00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:31,360 Speaker 1: proving that he is God, he has all authority over everything, 420 00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:34,560 Speaker 1: and that we can put our hope in him. He came, 421 00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:38,760 Speaker 1: and he not only lived, but he suffered. He was 422 00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:42,680 Speaker 1: with the people, He wept with the people, He did 423 00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:45,320 Speaker 1: life with the people. He was born in the most 424 00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:48,880 Speaker 1: humble places with the people, and he died the most 425 00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:53,280 Speaker 1: brutal death to bring life to us. I mean, actually 426 00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:56,680 Speaker 1: reading the Bible for what it is, that these are 427 00:22:56,920 --> 00:23:01,399 Speaker 1: real stories and a real God who intervened and continuously 428 00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:04,679 Speaker 1: brings redemption over and over again. 429 00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:07,800 Speaker 3: How can I not cling to that hope for myself. 430 00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:10,879 Speaker 1: Knowing that this is the same God who wants to 431 00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:15,719 Speaker 1: rewrite my story. He wants to keep writing my story. 432 00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:17,640 Speaker 1: I mean, so many of us have closed the chapter 433 00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:20,399 Speaker 1: on what we have gone through and we're like, well, 434 00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:21,080 Speaker 1: that's it. 435 00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:24,400 Speaker 3: Reopen it and let God keep on writing. 436 00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:27,639 Speaker 1: If it hasn't been redeemed, God is still out, like 437 00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:28,800 Speaker 1: give him the pen. 438 00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:30,560 Speaker 3: That has been a big. 439 00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:33,439 Speaker 1: Mindset shift for me with hope has actually been to 440 00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:38,000 Speaker 1: conceptualize the reality of who God has been throughout all 441 00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:41,160 Speaker 1: of time, and the stories of these people in scripture 442 00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:43,840 Speaker 1: and the stories of people that I know personally, and 443 00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:46,320 Speaker 1: looking back up my own life where God did his 444 00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:48,840 Speaker 1: little God winks here and there and redeemed here and there. 445 00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:52,080 Speaker 1: It's given me hope for today, and it's given me 446 00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:55,160 Speaker 1: hope for what I know or don't know will come 447 00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:57,440 Speaker 1: in the future. I know I can still have hope 448 00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:00,600 Speaker 1: that he will come in and redeem because he's always 449 00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:01,400 Speaker 1: done that. 450 00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:03,040 Speaker 3: He's always been faithful to do that. 451 00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:05,680 Speaker 2: Ay Man, Well, I'm just thinking from a So we've 452 00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:07,640 Speaker 2: had a psychologists on here who talk a lot about 453 00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:10,600 Speaker 2: like the brain science and neural pathways, and so I'm 454 00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:14,040 Speaker 2: thinking too, as you're reading scripture, you're taking in truth. 455 00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:17,000 Speaker 2: You've got this spiritual component. You're encountering the Holy Spirit, 456 00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:18,720 Speaker 2: so you've got the strength of him. But then you're 457 00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:22,159 Speaker 2: also rewiring your brain for truth. And so all of 458 00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:26,479 Speaker 2: those aspects work together maybe to our listeners too. If 459 00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:28,119 Speaker 2: you're really stuck and you're like, I don't even know 460 00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:29,119 Speaker 2: where to go, I don't know what to say, I 461 00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:31,080 Speaker 2: don't know how to pray. I had a friend that 462 00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:33,200 Speaker 2: when she was in a really deep depression, she read 463 00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:36,280 Speaker 2: Psalm one thirty nine each day, and I think she 464 00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:38,440 Speaker 2: did it for like a year, and so I actually 465 00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:41,520 Speaker 2: have it printed out and put in my bathroom. And 466 00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:44,119 Speaker 2: there's one verse that I really love says he hems 467 00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:47,679 Speaker 2: me in behind him before, and so when I'm feeling anxious, 468 00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:50,520 Speaker 2: I just envision and he places his hand upon me, 469 00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:53,360 Speaker 2: and so I just envisioned him surrounding me in his 470 00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:56,520 Speaker 2: love and protecting me. And I would love Actually one 471 00:24:56,560 --> 00:25:00,360 Speaker 2: of the one of the passages are scriptures that come 472 00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:03,720 Speaker 2: through really strongly in your book is Romans fifteen thirteen. 473 00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:08,000 Speaker 2: Would you read that for our listeners and explain why 474 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:09,399 Speaker 2: it's so profound in your life. 475 00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:10,919 Speaker 3: I love this first. 476 00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:15,639 Speaker 1: This is like the foundational cornerstone of the book, Romans 477 00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:17,520 Speaker 1: fifteen thirteen. I have it pulled up here on my 478 00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:21,080 Speaker 1: computer in the NIV translation, but it says, may the 479 00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:24,840 Speaker 1: God of Hope fill you with all joy and peace 480 00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:29,320 Speaker 1: as you trust in Him, so that you may overflow 481 00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:33,080 Speaker 1: with hope by the power of the Holy Spirit. 482 00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:36,920 Speaker 3: I love that. If you have a Bible, whip it out. 483 00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:39,760 Speaker 3: If you have a book, start taking notes. 484 00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:42,520 Speaker 1: But I love this because the first thing that we 485 00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:47,200 Speaker 1: see in this is God being identified as the God 486 00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:47,959 Speaker 1: of hope. 487 00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:49,920 Speaker 3: He is the God of hope. 488 00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:52,760 Speaker 1: And I love that because hope isn't something that God 489 00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:55,120 Speaker 1: just hands out, like He is the source. 490 00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:58,760 Speaker 2: He is hope, and that's how he wants to be defined, like. 491 00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:01,439 Speaker 1: Exactly, it's not just idea, it's a it's a person 492 00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:04,040 Speaker 1: that is part of his personhood is hope. And it 493 00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:06,119 Speaker 1: goes on to say that may the God of Hope 494 00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:09,879 Speaker 1: fill you with all joy and peace. The thing about 495 00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:12,680 Speaker 1: joy and peace, as I read it throughout Scripture and 496 00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:15,960 Speaker 1: as I check it throughout Scripture, is that in Galatians, 497 00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:19,480 Speaker 1: those are fruits of the Holy Spirit, meaning that as 498 00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:22,840 Speaker 1: we abide in Him, or as we spend time with him, 499 00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:26,720 Speaker 1: get lost in him, find find identity in him, actually 500 00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:29,480 Speaker 1: invite him into the points of our life and invite 501 00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:31,400 Speaker 1: him to to take control. 502 00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:33,600 Speaker 3: Holy Spirit, How do you want to lead me? God? 503 00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:35,920 Speaker 3: What is it that you want me to do? Who 504 00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:38,800 Speaker 3: are you calling me to be? The fruit that He 505 00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:41,040 Speaker 3: produces in us? The more that. 506 00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:44,080 Speaker 1: We yield to him and spend time with him is joy, 507 00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:47,040 Speaker 1: is peace. The God of Hope will fill you with 508 00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:48,080 Speaker 1: all joy and peace. 509 00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:49,040 Speaker 3: But what is what? 510 00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:52,360 Speaker 1: Is it contingent on as you trust in Him? As 511 00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:53,360 Speaker 1: you trust in him? 512 00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:53,920 Speaker 3: This is key. 513 00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:58,919 Speaker 1: Joy and peace and hope are not just these circumstantial things. 514 00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:00,960 Speaker 1: I think many of us know that to be true, 515 00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:03,800 Speaker 1: having gone through trials and heartbreak and pain. 516 00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:06,439 Speaker 3: They they're relational things. 517 00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:10,919 Speaker 1: They are fruitful, relational things that come from trust in God, 518 00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:14,880 Speaker 1: not control of our own circumstances, which is something we. 519 00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:16,080 Speaker 3: All need to learn how to release. 520 00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:18,600 Speaker 1: But the purpose of it is so that we may 521 00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:23,560 Speaker 1: overflow with hope, not just barely surviving with an ounce 522 00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:23,920 Speaker 1: of hope. 523 00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:25,840 Speaker 3: He wants hope to pour. 524 00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:29,679 Speaker 1: Out, to spill out of you like this is implying 525 00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:33,240 Speaker 1: an abundance, not a scarcity. The God of Hope does 526 00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:35,560 Speaker 1: not want you to scarcely get by. He wants you 527 00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:38,120 Speaker 1: to abound in hope. But that looks like trusting in him. 528 00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:41,280 Speaker 1: Peace and joy come from that. But it's all by 529 00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:46,160 Speaker 1: and because and from the power of the Holy Spirit. 530 00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:50,360 Speaker 1: This means that hope is not some like self generated thing. 531 00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:53,200 Speaker 1: It's not something that you scrap up. It's not something 532 00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:57,320 Speaker 1: that you strive for. It is spirit power, and it's 533 00:27:57,359 --> 00:28:01,880 Speaker 1: not self help. It's spirit like. It is so important 534 00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:05,840 Speaker 1: that when we go through circumstances and hardships and seasons 535 00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:10,200 Speaker 1: that feel like our chucking lemons our face, that we 536 00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:16,040 Speaker 1: sincerely go to God and find and place our hope 537 00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:18,919 Speaker 1: in Him, in the promises he gives us, in the 538 00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:22,200 Speaker 1: patterns that he has proven about his character, his personhood, 539 00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:25,520 Speaker 1: and his presence, that He's always with us. When we 540 00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:29,679 Speaker 1: put our hope in that, this verse actually comes to life, 541 00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:34,800 Speaker 1: actually begins to blossom and bloom and dictate the season 542 00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:35,320 Speaker 1: that we're in. 543 00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:38,680 Speaker 2: Amen. Well, and I also love it's like not something 544 00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:42,200 Speaker 2: we manufacture, right, like he fills us and one of 545 00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:44,640 Speaker 2: the things that I am working on. So the other day, 546 00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:48,840 Speaker 2: I was just overwhelmed with so many things. Numerous triggers 547 00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:51,880 Speaker 2: hit at once, and then I had some unexpected deadlines 548 00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:55,040 Speaker 2: and I did not respond well, like I snapped at 549 00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:57,120 Speaker 2: my little dog. I was unkind to my husband and 550 00:28:57,120 --> 00:28:58,760 Speaker 2: I went for a walk, and I'm kind of praying 551 00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:02,760 Speaker 2: on like I wanted the solution right, like, Lord, reduce 552 00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:04,840 Speaker 2: my stress, show me how I can cut my schedule. 553 00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:07,920 Speaker 2: And he totally shifted the conversation and he's like, well, 554 00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:12,760 Speaker 2: let's talk about your difficulty handling overwhelm. Just talk about 555 00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:15,640 Speaker 2: what to do when you're feeling all right. And so 556 00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:18,600 Speaker 2: I started, and here's my point. So what I've been 557 00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:22,240 Speaker 2: starting to do is remembering to just pause when I 558 00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:26,719 Speaker 2: begin to feel my overwhelm er negative emotions rising. Just pause, 559 00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:30,840 Speaker 2: close my eyes, recognize God's presence, and connect with his presence. 560 00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:33,680 Speaker 2: And what I'm finding is, because you talk a lot 561 00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:35,680 Speaker 2: about both in your book and in this conversation, that 562 00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:37,240 Speaker 2: God is our source of hope. So the more we 563 00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:40,120 Speaker 2: connect with him, right, And I think sometimes we think 564 00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:41,520 Speaker 2: it has to be this really long I got to 565 00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:44,680 Speaker 2: go on a retreat or I've got it, and learning 566 00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:47,600 Speaker 2: just to take those five minutes throughout the day to 567 00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:51,840 Speaker 2: recenter that can be hugely, hugely helpful. What would you 568 00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:54,360 Speaker 2: say besides getting your book, which has a lot and 569 00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:57,720 Speaker 2: there's something about reading books that are anchored in truth 570 00:29:57,800 --> 00:29:59,960 Speaker 2: and you're encountering Jesus through it, so she gives you 571 00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:02,080 Speaker 2: a lot of space for that as well. But aside 572 00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:05,240 Speaker 2: from getting your book, what would you say to the 573 00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:08,320 Speaker 2: person who's listening right now and they're like, lemons are 574 00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:10,680 Speaker 2: like they're buried. They're like at a ball. You know 575 00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:13,400 Speaker 2: those balls that you jump in as a kid. It's 576 00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:17,040 Speaker 2: the ball, it's all lemons, and they've been they've been 577 00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:18,840 Speaker 2: in there for That's when it gets really hard, when 578 00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:22,200 Speaker 2: you have been suffering for a really long time. What 579 00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:24,000 Speaker 2: would you say to them who said, I don't know 580 00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:27,479 Speaker 2: if I can hold on much longer. 581 00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:31,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, long term suffering hits different, and I get that, 582 00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:35,160 Speaker 1: Like I said, my parents struggled with addiction for pretty 583 00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:38,440 Speaker 1: much all my life, and I think about that season 584 00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:40,200 Speaker 1: of life that I went through when I was in 585 00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:42,960 Speaker 1: high school and praying and praying and praying for my 586 00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:46,000 Speaker 1: mom where she would relapse and get sober, going to 587 00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:47,960 Speaker 1: rehab and relapse and get so you know, it was 588 00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:52,400 Speaker 1: just this cycle throughout my entire adult life since I 589 00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:54,640 Speaker 1: was fourteen until she passed away when I was what 590 00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:57,959 Speaker 1: twenty six something like that. I just want you to 591 00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:00,240 Speaker 1: know that if you are in that place today where 592 00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:03,480 Speaker 1: you are tired and you feel weary, I want you 593 00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:07,120 Speaker 1: to know that that you're tired and weary and not weak. 594 00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:11,160 Speaker 1: You're I'm mad, and God wants to show up for 595 00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:15,840 Speaker 1: you as your comforter but also your confidence. And I'll 596 00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:18,120 Speaker 1: put this briefly because y'all can read about it if 597 00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:20,720 Speaker 1: you get the book that I talk about how God 598 00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:23,160 Speaker 1: is both our blanket but also our banner. 599 00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:26,040 Speaker 3: And when when I was little, would. 600 00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:28,400 Speaker 1: I would always ask my mom for three things like 601 00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:31,120 Speaker 1: this was my trinity before the trinity, you know, the 602 00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:33,320 Speaker 1: my banking, my blanky, my buddy. 603 00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:34,600 Speaker 3: I would always ask for that. 604 00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:36,440 Speaker 1: I was like, well, my beanking, my blanky, my bunny, 605 00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:39,280 Speaker 1: Like that was my nighttime routine and the reason why 606 00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:42,560 Speaker 1: I wanted all those things, But my blanket especially was 607 00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:45,200 Speaker 1: because it was a source of security for me. And 608 00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:47,440 Speaker 1: when I think about God as our comforter, like a 609 00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:52,000 Speaker 1: comforter blanket, it's like he he surrounds us and gives 610 00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:55,240 Speaker 1: us the rest that we need, the security, the peace 611 00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:58,160 Speaker 1: that we need. And so if you are in that 612 00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:01,800 Speaker 1: season where you were like, I'm exhausted, I am exhausted 613 00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:02,560 Speaker 1: from life. 614 00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:04,320 Speaker 3: I am exhausted from all these things. 615 00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:08,240 Speaker 1: Maybe you've been shouldering so much of the burden yourself 616 00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:12,280 Speaker 1: and responsibility yourself and navigating it and keeping it all together. 617 00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:15,000 Speaker 1: I want you to know that you have permission to 618 00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:17,480 Speaker 1: rest in God and to have. 619 00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:20,920 Speaker 3: Him cover you as a blanket. 620 00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:23,840 Speaker 1: But in the same way, knowing my book is called 621 00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:27,640 Speaker 1: the Fabric of Hope, fabric is so versatile. In many seasons, 622 00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:30,800 Speaker 1: he might need to be your blanket, but I'm believing 623 00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:32,720 Speaker 1: that there will also come a time in your life 624 00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:34,240 Speaker 1: where He becomes your banner. 625 00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:35,960 Speaker 3: And when I think about banners. 626 00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:39,520 Speaker 1: In the Old Testament, banners were set up as these 627 00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:43,760 Speaker 1: rallying points for the people of God that would testify 628 00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:47,560 Speaker 1: who God was whenever they would go into different territories, 629 00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:49,840 Speaker 1: whenever they would set up camp whenever they would charge 630 00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:54,160 Speaker 1: into battle, it was under the banner of this is 631 00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:56,000 Speaker 1: who our God is, not me. 632 00:32:56,640 --> 00:33:01,840 Speaker 3: Who our God is, He's my confidence. So maybe this season. 633 00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:05,080 Speaker 1: Of life that feels just like weary and maybe even 634 00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:07,600 Speaker 1: feel like if I were to even pursue hope, it would. 635 00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:10,400 Speaker 3: Feel like I'm pretending. You don't have to pretend. 636 00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:13,680 Speaker 1: Begin by going to God, all who are weary and broken, 637 00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:17,520 Speaker 1: find your rest in Him as your blanket. And as 638 00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:20,720 Speaker 1: you rest in Him and find comfort in Him, I 639 00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:24,280 Speaker 1: think you'll begin to see this shift. And I'm praying 640 00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:26,760 Speaker 1: that you will see the shift of moving from a 641 00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:30,640 Speaker 1: place of comfort to also having a place of confidence 642 00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:34,120 Speaker 1: of this is who my God is. I'm believing I 643 00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:38,440 Speaker 1: feel renewed. I feel my strength renewed for the first 644 00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:41,880 Speaker 1: time in my life. That I can go into this season, 645 00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:46,760 Speaker 1: this territory, this circumstance with the renewed confidence in who 646 00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:49,760 Speaker 1: God is, and you can begin to actively see that 647 00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:52,080 Speaker 1: redemption in your life. So I just I want to 648 00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:55,400 Speaker 1: encourage anybody with both of those things that our God 649 00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:57,880 Speaker 1: is both our comforter but also are confidence. 650 00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:00,640 Speaker 2: Amen, We've been talking a lot about your the fabric 651 00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:04,000 Speaker 2: of hope. How God weaves redemption into every season. So 652 00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:06,360 Speaker 2: for those who are listening, they're already checking it out 653 00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:08,239 Speaker 2: on Amazon. Let me read a little bit of the 654 00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:12,320 Speaker 2: back cover. Could God be interrupting your hardest seasons with hope, 655 00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:15,600 Speaker 2: quietly stitching meaning into every part of your story? In 656 00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:18,560 Speaker 2: the Fabric of Hope, Kirby Kelly invites you to find 657 00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:21,719 Speaker 2: purpose and pain, sweetness in what once felt bitter, and 658 00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:25,120 Speaker 2: beauty emerging from broken places. Life is difficult for everyone, 659 00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:28,520 Speaker 2: no matter what we see online. Yet when viewed through 660 00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:33,000 Speaker 2: God's redemptive lens, even our most painful seasons can carry 661 00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:37,280 Speaker 2: deep meaning. God is the faithful thread weaving together sorrow 662 00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:42,040 Speaker 2: and joy even while the work is still unfolding. I'm 663 00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:44,400 Speaker 2: going to skip skim down to the end. The Fabric 664 00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:47,319 Speaker 2: of Hope helps you see and savor what God is 665 00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:50,480 Speaker 2: doing in every chapter of your life, and we're both 666 00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:53,360 Speaker 2: encouraging perseverance. Sometimes you listen to an episode and it 667 00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:55,960 Speaker 2: sounds like we're going to get it tomorrow. It takes time. 668 00:34:56,560 --> 00:34:58,880 Speaker 2: So what would you say as we close? What is 669 00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:04,080 Speaker 2: one action step that listeners can do this afternoon to 670 00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:06,560 Speaker 2: begin to build their hope tank. 671 00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:09,960 Speaker 1: Other than cracking up in your Bible and reading it 672 00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:11,759 Speaker 1: because maybe you haven't in a. 673 00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:14,200 Speaker 3: While, just because you've felt discouraged. 674 00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:16,719 Speaker 1: I want to encourage you, especially if you have been 675 00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:20,880 Speaker 1: walking with the Lord for some time, to sit down 676 00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:26,359 Speaker 1: and get into the discipline of remembering, remembering and reflecting 677 00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:30,120 Speaker 1: on what God has done in your life. I mean, 678 00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:33,719 Speaker 1: sometimes we even forget the prayers that we prayed to God, 679 00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:36,399 Speaker 1: and it's like when we actually take time to think 680 00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:39,120 Speaker 1: about the seasons that we just came out of or 681 00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:42,279 Speaker 1: or came out of a while ago, it's like, Wow, God, 682 00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:44,960 Speaker 1: you really you actually showed up in this way, You 683 00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:47,879 Speaker 1: actually redeemed things in this way. I think we needed 684 00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:51,239 Speaker 1: to spend some more time pausing and getting still and 685 00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:54,960 Speaker 1: remembering and reflecting and asking God, where were you in 686 00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:58,000 Speaker 1: these places? Yes, I think he's faithful to reveal where 687 00:35:58,040 --> 00:36:02,200 Speaker 1: he was. He's also faithful to reveal maybe where he 688 00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:06,000 Speaker 1: was not invited in. But use that as an opportunity 689 00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:09,879 Speaker 1: now today to invite him in and to. 690 00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:11,440 Speaker 3: Begin rewriting your story. 691 00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:15,400 Speaker 1: But that also looks like submitting, giving him control and 692 00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:18,640 Speaker 1: trusting his will and way over your will in a way. 693 00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:23,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, I love it well to our listenership. This episode encouraged. 694 00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:25,799 Speaker 2: You consider sharing it with a friend right now who 695 00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:29,080 Speaker 2: might need hope, and leave a quick review. You never 696 00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:31,680 Speaker 2: know how God might use your small act to study 697 00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:34,600 Speaker 2: someone else's heart. And speaking of reviews, I wanted to 698 00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:37,880 Speaker 2: give a shout out to listeners Nancy Girding and Bernadette 699 00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:40,880 Speaker 2: Brown for chatting with me in the comments on Spotify. 700 00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:43,640 Speaker 2: Thank you for the encouragement. Friends. Until next time, may 701 00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:46,120 Speaker 2: you live as one who truly has been set free.