1 00:00:02,640 --> 00:00:03,480 Speaker 1: Life Audio. 2 00:00:05,440 --> 00:00:08,080 Speaker 2: Hi there, and welcome to another episode of the Praying 3 00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:11,600 Speaker 2: Christian Women podcast. This week, I have the privilege of 4 00:00:11,640 --> 00:00:15,680 Speaker 2: sitting down with Rachel Morley, who's the senior SRP specialist 5 00:00:15,760 --> 00:00:18,639 Speaker 2: for Open Doors. If you've not heard of Open Doors, 6 00:00:18,800 --> 00:00:22,080 Speaker 2: we've definitely had interviews with Open Doors before, but they 7 00:00:22,120 --> 00:00:26,479 Speaker 2: are a Christian ministry serving persecuted believers in over seventy 8 00:00:26,480 --> 00:00:30,960 Speaker 2: countries by providing Bibles, training, and emergency relief. And I'm 9 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:34,000 Speaker 2: really excited to sit down and talk with Rachel today. 10 00:00:34,040 --> 00:00:35,919 Speaker 2: So thank you so much for joining us. 11 00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:38,879 Speaker 3: Rachel, thanks for having me. It's great to be here. 12 00:00:39,400 --> 00:00:39,800 Speaker 1: Yeah. 13 00:00:39,880 --> 00:00:42,919 Speaker 2: Well, before we get started, we like to ask all 14 00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:45,840 Speaker 2: of our guests the same question to start off each episode. 15 00:00:45,920 --> 00:00:48,839 Speaker 2: What is your favorite prayer closet? So where do you 16 00:00:48,920 --> 00:00:50,360 Speaker 2: like to go to connect with God? 17 00:00:50,880 --> 00:00:53,400 Speaker 3: Yeah? I love this, love this question soy much. I 18 00:00:53,440 --> 00:00:57,880 Speaker 3: think I've had many many pro closets over the years. 19 00:00:58,160 --> 00:01:01,400 Speaker 3: I well, I actually back to so when I was 20 00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:04,720 Speaker 3: a teenager and I was kind of first figuring out 21 00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:08,039 Speaker 3: some big faith questions for myself for the first time. 22 00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:13,200 Speaker 3: I used to walk down the street, over the train tracks, 23 00:01:13,319 --> 00:01:15,560 Speaker 3: over the cricket pitch, and there was a field with 24 00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:18,080 Speaker 3: a pathway, and I used to just like walk up 25 00:01:18,120 --> 00:01:22,639 Speaker 3: and down that footpath and talk to God and figure 26 00:01:22,680 --> 00:01:26,360 Speaker 3: that out, start figuring that out for myself. And I 27 00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:30,080 Speaker 3: think kind of over the years, my prayer closets, my 28 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:32,679 Speaker 3: places where I go to meet God actually haven't changed 29 00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:36,200 Speaker 3: that much since then. I love, Yeah, I love being outside. 30 00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:40,240 Speaker 3: I love walking. One of my favorite places at the moment, 31 00:01:40,319 --> 00:01:42,920 Speaker 3: I just walk up this wooded track and there's like 32 00:01:42,959 --> 00:01:46,160 Speaker 3: a gateway on the right hand side, and it's kind 33 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:50,480 Speaker 3: of shaded, and yeah, I love to just hang out 34 00:01:50,520 --> 00:01:54,360 Speaker 3: there and talk to God there. My garden also does 35 00:01:54,400 --> 00:01:58,040 Speaker 3: pretty well. Often go into my guards and to pray. 36 00:01:58,600 --> 00:02:00,880 Speaker 3: And then you know, I live in England and we 37 00:02:00,960 --> 00:02:03,240 Speaker 3: love to talk about the weather for good reason. Say, 38 00:02:03,360 --> 00:02:05,760 Speaker 3: if I can't make it outside, I've got a kind 39 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:08,840 Speaker 3: of an armchair by the door to my garden, which 40 00:02:08,840 --> 00:02:11,600 Speaker 3: does pretty good in a pinch. 41 00:02:12,520 --> 00:02:13,120 Speaker 1: I love that. 42 00:02:13,200 --> 00:02:15,959 Speaker 2: I also so we lived in Alaska for a while 43 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:20,680 Speaker 2: and we recently relocated to Utah, and I can grow 44 00:02:20,760 --> 00:02:23,720 Speaker 2: so many more things, and I have a vegetable garden 45 00:02:23,720 --> 00:02:26,560 Speaker 2: that I started last year, and I just there's just 46 00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:31,680 Speaker 2: something about being outside, something about living things. God's creation, 47 00:02:32,520 --> 00:02:34,800 Speaker 2: and it really does. Whether it's, like you said, whether 48 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:37,080 Speaker 2: you're just looking at it or whether you're actually in 49 00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:39,440 Speaker 2: the midst of it, I feel like there is just 50 00:02:39,720 --> 00:02:44,079 Speaker 2: an added connection there and I love that. Yeah, Well, 51 00:02:44,200 --> 00:02:46,880 Speaker 2: can you just share for those who have not heard 52 00:02:46,919 --> 00:02:49,880 Speaker 2: about Open Doors, who aren't familiar with Open Doors, can 53 00:02:49,919 --> 00:02:52,560 Speaker 2: you talk about the organization and kind of how you 54 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:57,720 Speaker 2: found yourself as the senior SRP specialist and what that is. 55 00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:03,760 Speaker 3: Oh, open Doors really exist to strengthen and equip those 56 00:03:04,919 --> 00:03:09,040 Speaker 3: Christians to facing the highest levels of persecution and discriminations 57 00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:12,800 Speaker 3: for their faith. So it actually started kind of, you know, 58 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:15,760 Speaker 3: over seventy years ago our farms, a brother Andrew took 59 00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:19,280 Speaker 3: his like his first trips behind that iron curtain as 60 00:03:19,320 --> 00:03:23,000 Speaker 3: it was then in Eastern Europe. The met the church 61 00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:27,480 Speaker 3: they're facing kind of all sorts of pressure and heard 62 00:03:27,480 --> 00:03:30,880 Speaker 3: this call to strengthen what remains. And that's a call 63 00:03:30,919 --> 00:03:33,920 Speaker 3: from Revelation and that's really the call that Open Doors 64 00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:38,600 Speaker 3: still follows today to strengthen the Church that remains in 65 00:03:38,680 --> 00:03:44,200 Speaker 3: all sorts of hostile contexts and places, through being present 66 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:48,120 Speaker 3: on the ground with those believers, through providing what they need, 67 00:03:48,160 --> 00:03:54,880 Speaker 3: through mobilizing prayer across the world to encourage encourage the 68 00:03:54,880 --> 00:03:57,960 Speaker 3: global church to stand with their persecuted brothers and sisters 69 00:03:57,960 --> 00:04:01,200 Speaker 3: in Christ. And one of the ways you know that 70 00:04:01,240 --> 00:04:05,800 Speaker 3: we do that mobile age mobilization, that education is through 71 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:08,080 Speaker 3: something called the World Watch List, which you might have 72 00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:13,240 Speaker 3: heard of, which are the top fifty countries where persecutor 73 00:04:13,320 --> 00:04:18,160 Speaker 3: Christians faces the highest levels of persecution discrimination for their faith. 74 00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:22,240 Speaker 3: So we have a research the team that creates that 75 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:26,840 Speaker 3: list every year. Our research teams are talking to believers 76 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:30,960 Speaker 3: on the grounds, consulting with experts, kind of analyzing the 77 00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:36,280 Speaker 3: situation as it as it develops and changes and yeah 78 00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:39,560 Speaker 3: to in order to create the analysis and the research 79 00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:43,719 Speaker 3: behind that list. So my role, as you said, is 80 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:47,840 Speaker 3: the SRP specialist. So I actually I work in that 81 00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:51,400 Speaker 3: research team in that research depart them. And if the 82 00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:55,040 Speaker 3: World Watch List kind of gives us that picture of 83 00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:59,479 Speaker 3: Christian communities at quite a high level in the countries 84 00:04:59,640 --> 00:05:04,640 Speaker 3: where they lives, specific religious persecution or SLP is really 85 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:08,919 Speaker 3: about going a level deeper. So we ask questions, like 86 00:05:09,440 --> 00:05:13,159 Speaker 3: you know, in this particular Christian community, how do men 87 00:05:13,279 --> 00:05:18,120 Speaker 3: and women experience persecution differently for their faith? Or how 88 00:05:18,160 --> 00:05:21,760 Speaker 3: do the children and the use of the church in 89 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:26,680 Speaker 3: a particular context experience unique challenges due to their age. 90 00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:31,200 Speaker 3: So we look at how factors such as gender inequality 91 00:05:31,640 --> 00:05:37,200 Speaker 3: or vulnerabilities due to age or force displacement interacts with 92 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:43,159 Speaker 3: religious persecution and what that means for the church facing 93 00:05:43,200 --> 00:05:47,800 Speaker 3: persecution in those places. So I kind of started off 94 00:05:48,320 --> 00:05:50,760 Speaker 3: a few a few years ago more on the data 95 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:53,880 Speaker 3: and oursis side, and now I look after our data 96 00:05:53,880 --> 00:05:57,799 Speaker 3: and our SIS team that works on specific religious persecution, 97 00:05:58,160 --> 00:06:00,120 Speaker 3: and then I also think about, you know, how how 98 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:04,200 Speaker 3: can we use that research to grow insights into the 99 00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:08,400 Speaker 3: paskey to church to help the global church pray, to 100 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:12,440 Speaker 3: understand what is going on. How do we help our 101 00:06:12,600 --> 00:06:16,200 Speaker 3: teams and partners on the ground to tailor their support 102 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:18,719 Speaker 3: to be as effective as possible as they look to 103 00:06:18,800 --> 00:06:22,160 Speaker 3: Saturday's churches and Saturday's communities. 104 00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:26,560 Speaker 2: I love that, and I think your vision and the 105 00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:30,120 Speaker 2: vision of Open Doors sort of speaks to both of 106 00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:33,600 Speaker 2: my passions, which are science. I'm such a science nerd 107 00:06:33,640 --> 00:06:37,320 Speaker 2: and I love numbers and statistics and like the facts. 108 00:06:37,880 --> 00:06:39,360 Speaker 1: But I love that your. 109 00:06:39,360 --> 00:06:42,719 Speaker 2: Focus is on really the end goal is to be 110 00:06:42,760 --> 00:06:46,119 Speaker 2: able to equip people to pray more powerfully because most 111 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:48,320 Speaker 2: of us aren't on the ground. I mean, you all 112 00:06:48,600 --> 00:06:51,279 Speaker 2: can be on the ground and do the research and 113 00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:54,279 Speaker 2: get behind the curtain, but most of us do not 114 00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:58,560 Speaker 2: have that opportunity. But we have so much access to 115 00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:01,800 Speaker 2: the power of prayer, and that goes overlooked by a 116 00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:05,680 Speaker 2: lot of the world. The idea that the doing and 117 00:07:05,920 --> 00:07:09,720 Speaker 2: you know, the tangible things that are happening are the 118 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:13,720 Speaker 2: only real work when I mean prayer is the real work. 119 00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:16,920 Speaker 2: And so I love that that you're doing both. That's amazing. 120 00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:20,160 Speaker 2: So thank you because it's not easy work, I'm sure 121 00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:22,920 Speaker 2: and I'm sure you, like we discussed earlier, there are 122 00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:28,320 Speaker 2: security concerns, there's a lot involved. So we appreciate you 123 00:07:28,640 --> 00:07:31,800 Speaker 2: and the staff at Open Doors for being willing to 124 00:07:31,880 --> 00:07:36,640 Speaker 2: step out so because we're praying Christian women podcasts and 125 00:07:36,680 --> 00:07:41,920 Speaker 2: because you do some research that sort of untangles the 126 00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:45,960 Speaker 2: unique challenges that women face. I mean, obviously, persecution of 127 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:51,360 Speaker 2: all kinds is difficult and it's terrible. So what would 128 00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:55,120 Speaker 2: you say, though, in terms of just picking an area 129 00:07:55,280 --> 00:07:59,160 Speaker 2: to focus on today, what are some unique challenges that 130 00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:02,559 Speaker 2: you see that women face in the persecuted church. 131 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:07,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean this can vary hugely from context to context. 132 00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:10,480 Speaker 3: But one of the things that I love about the 133 00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:14,640 Speaker 3: power of research is just our ability to look at 134 00:08:14,680 --> 00:08:18,560 Speaker 3: some of the global patterns and trends from country to country, 135 00:08:19,120 --> 00:08:26,200 Speaker 3: and particularly for persecuted women, we often summarize the persecution 136 00:08:26,240 --> 00:08:31,560 Speaker 3: that they face as being hidden, violence and complex, so 137 00:08:32,120 --> 00:08:34,920 Speaker 3: we can think about it being hidden. You know, Again 138 00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:38,160 Speaker 3: with my researchers pat On, it's much easier for me 139 00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:41,760 Speaker 3: to observe or verify something if it happens in a 140 00:08:41,760 --> 00:08:45,400 Speaker 3: public place, you know, if it's persecution at someone's school, 141 00:08:46,280 --> 00:08:49,760 Speaker 3: persecution in the workplace, if someone loses their job, or 142 00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:54,439 Speaker 3: if someone's imprisoned, that's much easier to yeah, to observe, 143 00:08:54,600 --> 00:08:58,320 Speaker 3: to verify. But often the persecution that women are facing 144 00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:01,959 Speaker 3: it happens behind closed doors. That happens often in the home, 145 00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:08,079 Speaker 3: often from family members or kind of informal informal networks 146 00:09:08,080 --> 00:09:13,200 Speaker 3: with friends or communities or extended family. And that often 147 00:09:13,240 --> 00:09:15,600 Speaker 3: means that, yeah, it can be it can be harder 148 00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:19,959 Speaker 3: to spot, it can be harder to verify. It's also 149 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:24,120 Speaker 3: often violence, you know, all kind of persecutor Christians are 150 00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:28,760 Speaker 3: at risk generally of violence. That's the powerful force at play. 151 00:09:29,440 --> 00:09:33,280 Speaker 3: But persecuted women in particular, they're the brands of sexual violence. 152 00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:38,240 Speaker 3: And yeah, that's a huge, a huge challenge for women 153 00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:42,520 Speaker 3: living in those contexts. And then finally we say, kind 154 00:09:42,520 --> 00:09:47,000 Speaker 3: of persecution against women is often complex, and this kind 155 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:49,160 Speaker 3: of gets at that idea that you know, often we 156 00:09:49,240 --> 00:09:52,480 Speaker 3: can think of persecution as like a single a single 157 00:09:52,520 --> 00:09:57,000 Speaker 3: incident or kind of a moment that happens, but often 158 00:09:57,480 --> 00:10:01,320 Speaker 3: the persecution that women face is bit more entangled. It's 159 00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:04,239 Speaker 3: a bit more like a like a web of forces, 160 00:10:04,280 --> 00:10:08,040 Speaker 3: if you like. And a good example of actually of 161 00:10:08,080 --> 00:10:12,439 Speaker 3: that is force marriage, which sadly is a risk for 162 00:10:12,800 --> 00:10:17,720 Speaker 3: many Christian women in such contexts, particularly women who convert 163 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:22,960 Speaker 3: from another religion or belief background into Christianity, they can 164 00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:27,880 Speaker 3: often risk being forcibly married. And you know, force marriage 165 00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:30,360 Speaker 3: is you know, a good example of where, you know, 166 00:10:30,400 --> 00:10:33,240 Speaker 3: it's not just an incident that happens one day, it's 167 00:10:33,280 --> 00:10:37,240 Speaker 3: an ongoing dynamic potentially you know, for the rest of 168 00:10:37,320 --> 00:10:40,960 Speaker 3: that the rest of that woman's life. It can entail 169 00:10:41,080 --> 00:10:45,200 Speaker 3: other imbuse. You know, often in some context women will 170 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:48,240 Speaker 3: go and live in like their their husband's family home, 171 00:10:48,800 --> 00:10:55,000 Speaker 3: where they can then face further psychological pressure or restrictions 172 00:10:55,080 --> 00:10:59,120 Speaker 3: on their freedom of movement, so you know, yeah, it 173 00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:03,120 Speaker 3: becomes it becomes more complex, there's more entangled things. And 174 00:11:03,160 --> 00:11:06,640 Speaker 3: then we also see the power of particularly like cultural 175 00:11:06,720 --> 00:11:12,360 Speaker 3: dynamics at play, particularly in some context the power of 176 00:11:12,520 --> 00:11:16,240 Speaker 3: honor or shame. So, you know, just a moment ago, 177 00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:20,760 Speaker 3: I mentioned sexual violence, and you know, in many contexts 178 00:11:21,160 --> 00:11:25,720 Speaker 3: there's not just the initial impact and obviously the trauma 179 00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:29,640 Speaker 3: of that sexual violence, but then women can also face 180 00:11:29,840 --> 00:11:34,400 Speaker 3: being marginalized or ostracized from their community or their family 181 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:39,040 Speaker 3: because of that way in which their perceived purity or 182 00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:44,319 Speaker 3: their perceived honor has been targeted. So that's quite a 183 00:11:45,840 --> 00:11:50,080 Speaker 3: bleak picture I guess I've painted. And often, you know, 184 00:11:50,160 --> 00:11:52,920 Speaker 3: as you've referenced, you know, we can feel often quite 185 00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:57,120 Speaker 3: far away from what is going on, and these can 186 00:11:57,160 --> 00:12:01,640 Speaker 3: feel quite kind of impossible situation. But you know, we 187 00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:05,800 Speaker 3: know that with God's you know, he makes the impossible possible. 188 00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:08,760 Speaker 3: And we do also see that in the lives of 189 00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:15,000 Speaker 3: persecuted women, how they are courageous and creative and faithful 190 00:12:15,559 --> 00:12:20,240 Speaker 3: and remain strong despite yeah, the kind of myriads of 191 00:12:20,360 --> 00:12:21,520 Speaker 3: challenges that they face. 192 00:12:34,520 --> 00:12:38,840 Speaker 2: I would think that in places where women are being 193 00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:42,320 Speaker 2: persecuted for their faith a lot of those. I mean, 194 00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:47,920 Speaker 2: I'm thinking Islam is probably in many cases the predominant religion. 195 00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:51,360 Speaker 2: Is that would you say that's kind of or is 196 00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:55,440 Speaker 2: that just one small facet of a huge what would 197 00:12:55,440 --> 00:12:59,839 Speaker 2: you let's start here when we're talking about the persecuted church, 198 00:13:00,679 --> 00:13:04,440 Speaker 2: what are the different sources of persecution that we see 199 00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:08,079 Speaker 2: globally that they're facing, whether they're women, men, children. 200 00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:13,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, so the power of often the majority religion is incredibly 201 00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:17,680 Speaker 3: powerful in many countries. You're correct, that is Islam, But 202 00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:21,680 Speaker 3: we also see in you know, contexts such as India, 203 00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:26,120 Speaker 3: you know, the power of Hindu nationalism or Hindu extremism 204 00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:30,160 Speaker 3: can also be be incredibly powerful. So, yeah, we see 205 00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:34,360 Speaker 3: definitely the forces of where there's where there's the you know, 206 00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:41,320 Speaker 3: majority religion, extreme interpretations of that religion also can be Yeah, 207 00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:44,760 Speaker 3: can be a can be a risk. We see also 208 00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:48,560 Speaker 3: the power of kind of authoritarianism or yeah, kind of 209 00:13:48,559 --> 00:13:53,240 Speaker 3: governments that are looking to really cement control in every 210 00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:59,120 Speaker 3: area of their citizens' lives and perceive kind of Christianity 211 00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:03,160 Speaker 3: or other religions to to be a threat to their power. 212 00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:08,760 Speaker 3: And then also kind of we talk about you know, 213 00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:14,120 Speaker 3: like militant groups or extremist groups where there's that kind 214 00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:17,480 Speaker 3: of motivator of violence that can Yeah, that can be 215 00:14:17,840 --> 00:14:19,040 Speaker 3: a powerful force as well. 216 00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:22,320 Speaker 2: Yeah. My co host Alana actually is that she's a 217 00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:26,960 Speaker 2: Christian suspense author and her first book ever, her first 218 00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:30,120 Speaker 2: novel involved it was called The Beloved Daughter and it 219 00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:34,200 Speaker 2: involves the persecuted church in North Korea. That's kind of 220 00:14:34,240 --> 00:14:36,840 Speaker 2: a prayer burden of hers, so she kind of focuses 221 00:14:36,840 --> 00:14:40,240 Speaker 2: on that. So that's another facet But in most of 222 00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:43,840 Speaker 2: the countries, I would think where women are facing persecution, 223 00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:49,840 Speaker 2: the social structures, the religious structures, the political structures probably 224 00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:53,200 Speaker 2: already have set themselves up for these women to be 225 00:14:53,240 --> 00:14:56,520 Speaker 2: persecuted just for being women. Is that a lot of 226 00:14:56,560 --> 00:14:57,280 Speaker 2: times the case? 227 00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:03,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, so often women facing this, you know, kind of 228 00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:06,560 Speaker 3: challenge on two fronts. You know, there's many concepts where 229 00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:09,560 Speaker 3: you know, just being female or just kind of being 230 00:15:09,560 --> 00:15:12,440 Speaker 3: a woman or a girl, it's already a challenge within 231 00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:16,040 Speaker 3: as you've identified, you know, the very structures and systems 232 00:15:16,040 --> 00:15:18,800 Speaker 3: of government, and then when you tie that also to 233 00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:22,320 Speaker 3: paying a member of a religious minority, that only kind 234 00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:26,880 Speaker 3: of compounds their vulnerability and yeah, really shape the type 235 00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:30,000 Speaker 3: of persecution of discrimination that they can face. 236 00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:33,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe persecution wasn't the word like discriminated against for 237 00:15:33,720 --> 00:15:36,840 Speaker 2: being women. Yeah, and then there's the persecution layer. So 238 00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:40,200 Speaker 2: when you talk to these women, when you identify them 239 00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:43,400 Speaker 2: in some of their struggles, are they often living their 240 00:15:43,400 --> 00:15:47,320 Speaker 2: faith in secret? Is it often that they are forced 241 00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:50,440 Speaker 2: whether because of their marriage, whether because of the family 242 00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:53,320 Speaker 2: they're in, I mean, are they are most of them 243 00:15:53,400 --> 00:15:57,560 Speaker 2: forced to kind of live a Christian life in secret? 244 00:15:58,040 --> 00:16:01,640 Speaker 3: Great question? Yeah, again, I say this kind of varies 245 00:16:01,680 --> 00:16:05,800 Speaker 3: from context to context. So particularly in those places where 246 00:16:06,600 --> 00:16:09,840 Speaker 3: women have converted, maybe they're the only one in their family, 247 00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:13,160 Speaker 3: they might be yes, as you say, living kind of 248 00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:18,440 Speaker 3: as secret believers. In other places, so you know, they 249 00:16:18,520 --> 00:16:22,320 Speaker 3: might convert because their whole family converts and they choose 250 00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:27,200 Speaker 3: to live in a way that is more visible or 251 00:16:27,280 --> 00:16:31,040 Speaker 3: outright with their faith. And yeah, it really depends on 252 00:16:31,280 --> 00:16:34,800 Speaker 3: how safe it is for them to live visibly as 253 00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:38,240 Speaker 3: a Christian. And yeah, that can that can depend on 254 00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:43,040 Speaker 3: a whole range of factors. But yes, certainly there are, Yeah, 255 00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:46,520 Speaker 3: there are many Christian women who are living living as 256 00:16:46,560 --> 00:16:47,560 Speaker 3: secret believers. 257 00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:50,360 Speaker 2: So could you give us just kind of a window 258 00:16:50,680 --> 00:16:54,400 Speaker 2: into a couple of stories of specifics. Obviously you can't 259 00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:57,480 Speaker 2: use names, but if you could, if you could tell us, 260 00:16:57,560 --> 00:16:59,640 Speaker 2: could you share a story or two that kind of 261 00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:02,800 Speaker 2: talks about the struggles that these women are facing. 262 00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:06,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, I'd love to, so I'll share the story. I'm 263 00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:09,440 Speaker 3: going to call her Ariana obviously of reference, we can't 264 00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:12,439 Speaker 3: share her real names, but I always think it's you know, 265 00:17:12,520 --> 00:17:15,200 Speaker 3: it's lovely to to pray for proy for a name. 266 00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:22,400 Speaker 3: So Ariana is from Afghanistan, So she grew up in Afghanistan. 267 00:17:22,800 --> 00:17:25,960 Speaker 3: As you're probably aware, you know, just being a female already, 268 00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:29,639 Speaker 3: it's a huge challenge in that in that context, in 269 00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:33,679 Speaker 3: that place. You know, she was expected to be small, 270 00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:36,920 Speaker 3: to be silent. She didn't have the choice to kind 271 00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:39,359 Speaker 3: of go to high school, to choose a career, to 272 00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:44,239 Speaker 3: choose a spouse. Thattally, she ended up being married to Uh, 273 00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:48,560 Speaker 3: a Christian secretly, so, you know, a family of secret believers. 274 00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:52,159 Speaker 3: Ariana didn't know that he was a Christian. Ariana's family 275 00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:56,800 Speaker 3: didn't know that he was a Christian. So yeah, she 276 00:17:57,200 --> 00:18:00,720 Speaker 3: kind of had no idea that she was marrying into 277 00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:03,159 Speaker 3: a family of Christians. But she kind of started to 278 00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:08,040 Speaker 3: spend something different about her new family and particularly more 279 00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:11,560 Speaker 3: so after they were sadly attacked. Her brother in law 280 00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:15,520 Speaker 3: actually was killed for his faith in Afghanistan and the 281 00:18:15,600 --> 00:18:18,600 Speaker 3: family fled to Central Asia. And it was actually in 282 00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:24,040 Speaker 3: Central Asia where Ariana found out that the family that 283 00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:26,879 Speaker 3: she had married into were Christian, that her husband was 284 00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:31,680 Speaker 3: a Christian. And yeah, she was understandably kind of curious. 285 00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:36,960 Speaker 3: She hadn't met any Christians before, and started going to church, 286 00:18:37,119 --> 00:18:40,280 Speaker 3: started to experience some of God's kind of love and 287 00:18:40,359 --> 00:18:43,440 Speaker 3: kindness for her own and she made made that decision 288 00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:47,080 Speaker 3: also to follow Christ. But you know, even though the 289 00:18:47,119 --> 00:18:50,800 Speaker 3: family had left Central left Afghanistan and we're now in 290 00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:54,280 Speaker 3: Central Asia, you know, news of her conversion still went 291 00:18:54,359 --> 00:18:57,280 Speaker 3: back to her family. And I'd love to actually just 292 00:18:57,640 --> 00:19:02,280 Speaker 3: quote her own words, so she said, kind of one 293 00:19:02,359 --> 00:19:05,800 Speaker 3: day my brother called me. He called and said, I 294 00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:08,480 Speaker 3: heard that you sold your religion and became a Christian. 295 00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:11,400 Speaker 3: If they are pressuring you, I will come and save you. 296 00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:14,359 Speaker 3: But if you really sold your religion, I'm willing to 297 00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:17,080 Speaker 3: sell the carpet under my feet to come and kill 298 00:19:17,119 --> 00:19:20,200 Speaker 3: you and put myself in prison for a lifetime so 299 00:19:20,240 --> 00:19:23,400 Speaker 3: that I can clear disdain of dishonor from our people. 300 00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:30,840 Speaker 3: Which yeah, like incredibly incredibly powerful words and already kind 301 00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:34,720 Speaker 3: of just hearing how becoming Christian. You know, that perceived 302 00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:38,800 Speaker 3: dishonor on her family was so powerful that her brother 303 00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:43,120 Speaker 3: was then kind of threatening, threatening to kill her. But Ariana, 304 00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:45,679 Speaker 3: you know, she stayed, stays strong in her faith. She 305 00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:48,399 Speaker 3: started to kind of grow in her faith, started to 306 00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:51,800 Speaker 3: share the word of God with other Askhan families in 307 00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:56,480 Speaker 3: Central Asia. And you know, open Doors works with believers 308 00:19:56,480 --> 00:20:00,680 Speaker 3: like Ariana in Central Asia to strengthen strengthen ask And families. 309 00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:03,840 Speaker 3: And you know, she's able to share some of some 310 00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:07,679 Speaker 3: of the peace and the love of God with the 311 00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:12,280 Speaker 3: families living in quite yeah, quite a precarious context. You know, 312 00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:16,679 Speaker 3: they're not sure if they'll be deported or yeah, you 313 00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:20,320 Speaker 3: know what's going to happen in the next years. But 314 00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:23,800 Speaker 3: she says, actually she says these words as well. She says, 315 00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:25,960 Speaker 3: all the women I meet with say the same thing. 316 00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:29,040 Speaker 3: They thank me and tell me when you come, we 317 00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:32,439 Speaker 3: feel at peace. It's the presence of God that brings 318 00:20:32,480 --> 00:20:35,480 Speaker 3: peace in these hard times, which yeah, I think is 319 00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:38,720 Speaker 3: a beautiful sentiment of how God is at work in 320 00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:41,359 Speaker 3: every element and in every place. 321 00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:45,040 Speaker 2: That's incredible and you know, you think of persecution as 322 00:20:45,040 --> 00:20:48,479 Speaker 2: being an external thing, but so many of these women 323 00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:54,080 Speaker 2: and men are being persecuted primarily like by the people 324 00:20:54,119 --> 00:20:59,240 Speaker 2: closest to them, who feel betrayed, who feel like they're 325 00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:03,560 Speaker 2: going again and everything their family and religion stand for. 326 00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:07,280 Speaker 2: So that can add like It's one thing to be 327 00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:10,880 Speaker 2: persecuted by other you know, but to be persecuted by 328 00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:14,439 Speaker 2: people you love and who are close to you like that. 329 00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:19,440 Speaker 2: Those words of Arianna's brother are I mean, that's cutting 330 00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:22,200 Speaker 2: to hear that. I'm sure that was so hard for her, 331 00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:26,320 Speaker 2: but I'm so thankful that she has a Christian family, 332 00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:28,960 Speaker 2: like not just one person, not just her husband, but 333 00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:31,440 Speaker 2: like a whole family to support her. But I imagine 334 00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:35,400 Speaker 2: many do not. Do you have any stories that come 335 00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:41,080 Speaker 2: to mind of women who have basically been in impossible 336 00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:45,439 Speaker 2: situations and have just displayed resilience in the midst of 337 00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:48,480 Speaker 2: just unthinkable persecution that stand out to you. 338 00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:54,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, good question. I actually think a story from a 339 00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:58,639 Speaker 3: few years a day in Bangladesh where there was a 340 00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:04,560 Speaker 3: young girl he was actually abducted and forcibly married. Yeah. 341 00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:08,240 Speaker 3: So her family were Christian and she was forced, yeah, 342 00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:11,159 Speaker 3: forced to marry the brother. I think it was the 343 00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:15,840 Speaker 3: brother of a classmate who you know that was a 344 00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:19,080 Speaker 3: Muslim family, and they wanted her to become, yeah, to 345 00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:22,679 Speaker 3: become Muslim like them, And so she was kind of 346 00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:25,440 Speaker 3: stuck in this house. It was actually it was during 347 00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:29,920 Speaker 3: the COVID years, so you know, made it even harder 348 00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:33,199 Speaker 3: to try and try and escape, try and get out. 349 00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:38,080 Speaker 3: And yeah, I can't imagine just that what that sensation 350 00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:40,840 Speaker 3: must have been like to be to be on your own, 351 00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:45,920 Speaker 3: to be transported into this this yeah, this new situation, 352 00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:51,160 Speaker 3: to be forcibly married. You know, Fortunately, the story has 353 00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:53,720 Speaker 3: a good ending in that, you know, after a few 354 00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:57,159 Speaker 3: weeks she was able to uh able to find a 355 00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:01,200 Speaker 3: phone and call her dad, who was a part and 356 00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:05,919 Speaker 3: the peace managed to come and rescue her from that situation. 357 00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:09,440 Speaker 3: And you know, there's an incredible story of kind of 358 00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:12,520 Speaker 3: God's redemption in terms of, you know, how her family 359 00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:17,080 Speaker 3: and how her Christian community responded with love and with acceptance. 360 00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:21,639 Speaker 3: But yeah, speaking about kind of impossible situations, I can't 361 00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:24,879 Speaker 3: imagine what that would have been like to be to 362 00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:26,480 Speaker 3: be trapped in someone else's home. 363 00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:29,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, COVID was hard for everybody, even when you're trapped 364 00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:31,640 Speaker 2: with people you love or life. 365 00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:35,360 Speaker 1: So I think there's a saying that is like. 366 00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:37,959 Speaker 2: I'm going to butcher it probably, but it's like the 367 00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:41,040 Speaker 2: blood of the martyrs or seeds of the Gospel. 368 00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:41,440 Speaker 1: Something like that. 369 00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:47,040 Speaker 2: Do you find in your work that this persecution actually 370 00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:51,720 Speaker 2: cultivates a passionate faith more so than kind of the 371 00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:56,440 Speaker 2: lukewarm church, maybe that exists in a place of prosperity 372 00:23:56,480 --> 00:23:58,040 Speaker 2: and lack of persecution. 373 00:23:58,720 --> 00:23:59,840 Speaker 1: Do you see that regular? 374 00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:04,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I think the faith of the persecutor 375 00:24:04,119 --> 00:24:07,080 Speaker 3: church is an incredible thing to learn from and be 376 00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:11,399 Speaker 3: encouraged by. You know, I think of it more of like, 377 00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:15,720 Speaker 3: you know, God's doing incredible things and impossible places of 378 00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:19,119 Speaker 3: you know, when you meet kind of persecutor believers, you 379 00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:22,560 Speaker 3: know they're not they're not superheroes, but they are incredible 380 00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:26,480 Speaker 3: men and women of God. And you know, I was 381 00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:31,160 Speaker 3: actually as just thinking of a man called a waste 382 00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:34,560 Speaker 3: who's from Somalia. You know, Somalia is one of the 383 00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:37,959 Speaker 3: most kind of hostile places on us to be a Christian, 384 00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:43,760 Speaker 3: ranks second on the World Watch list, and he he 385 00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:46,760 Speaker 3: met with a kind of group of local believers when 386 00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:49,960 Speaker 3: he was in Somalia. Once you become a Christian, and 387 00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:54,320 Speaker 3: you know, many of those believers did die for their faith, 388 00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:59,959 Speaker 3: but God appeared to those to those believers in dreams 389 00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:03,960 Speaker 3: to encourage them to strengthen them and a wayte you know, 390 00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:07,680 Speaker 3: eventually kind of left Somalia and still works from kind 391 00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:13,399 Speaker 3: of strengthen strengthening believers in that region. And yeah, I 392 00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:16,320 Speaker 3: think just seeing kind of the faith of those believers, 393 00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:19,359 Speaker 3: the amazing things and the amazing ways in which God 394 00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:24,520 Speaker 3: is intervening and strengthening the church in those places is 395 00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:28,000 Speaker 3: definitely something that we can learn from that we can 396 00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:30,480 Speaker 3: be encouraged by that, we can you know, we can 397 00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:33,480 Speaker 3: see God moving and we can say, you know, like 398 00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:35,680 Speaker 3: we want that faith to God, you know, we want 399 00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:38,800 Speaker 3: the spirit to use in the same way. And yeah, 400 00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:42,120 Speaker 3: that is definitely definitely a prayer of mine personally. 401 00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:55,840 Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely. 402 00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:58,119 Speaker 2: So you've brought up something that I was thinking of 403 00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:00,119 Speaker 2: asking you, and I thought, yeah, maybe I want, but 404 00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:00,920 Speaker 2: you brought it up. 405 00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:05,440 Speaker 1: So I have a friend many years ago I met her. 406 00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:08,480 Speaker 2: She came from a Muslim country to the US first school, 407 00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:13,280 Speaker 2: and she was Muslim herself, and she had a dream 408 00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:18,000 Speaker 2: and in her dream, she encountered after what he said, 409 00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:23,040 Speaker 2: she realized that it was Jesus and what he said. 410 00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:27,160 Speaker 2: He said something about being the morning star or something 411 00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:30,480 Speaker 2: like that. One of her professors had already told her 412 00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:33,920 Speaker 2: that he was a Christian, had a couple of conversations, 413 00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:36,320 Speaker 2: and so she knew to go to him to ask 414 00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:38,320 Speaker 2: about some of the words that were said in this 415 00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:43,439 Speaker 2: dream because it really impressed her, and she became a believer, 416 00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:47,960 Speaker 2: and she was cut off from her country and her family, 417 00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:51,880 Speaker 2: and her family endured persecution because of her conversion when 418 00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:52,520 Speaker 2: they found out. 419 00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:54,760 Speaker 1: She's never returned. 420 00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:58,919 Speaker 2: And since then, more recently, I've heard people say, just 421 00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:03,760 Speaker 2: anecdotally that there has been kind of this theme of 422 00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:10,639 Speaker 2: Muslims having dreams or visions that involve Jesus. And it 423 00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:13,760 Speaker 2: sounds like you're kind of confirming that that happens. Is 424 00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:16,000 Speaker 2: that something you heard about a lot? Is that just 425 00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:19,159 Speaker 2: kind of an isolated incident that you recounted, or is 426 00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:20,919 Speaker 2: that something you're seeing or hearing about. 427 00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:24,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I mean with you know, with my 428 00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:27,760 Speaker 3: research has on Adovte, I'd love to give you a 429 00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:31,119 Speaker 3: counter or a list, which I can't see because we don't, 430 00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:34,200 Speaker 3: you know, we don't that doesn't fall into the research. 431 00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:35,920 Speaker 1: Right it's not a research category. 432 00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:38,600 Speaker 3: It's not a research category. Maybe it should be, maybe 433 00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:41,320 Speaker 3: we should put it as a new category. But it 434 00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:43,600 Speaker 3: is certainly something that we do see and I think 435 00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:46,919 Speaker 3: just you know, just the power of God to do 436 00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:51,400 Speaker 3: the impossible in places where you know, Somalia is yeah, 437 00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:52,920 Speaker 3: like I said, you know, kind of number two on 438 00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:55,840 Speaker 3: the World watch List. It's an incredibly hostile place. Earlier 439 00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:58,920 Speaker 3: we talked about North Korea and you know that's number 440 00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:01,879 Speaker 3: one on the World watch List. You know, like an incredibly, 441 00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:07,000 Speaker 3: incredibly hostile environment to become a Christian. But we see 442 00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:09,480 Speaker 3: kind of God moving in all sorts of ways. So yes, 443 00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:12,959 Speaker 3: certainly through through dreams and visions. Also you know the 444 00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:17,000 Speaker 3: way in which he kind of heals people or intervenes 445 00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:21,320 Speaker 3: through other Christians, so that yeah, so that people can 446 00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:26,280 Speaker 3: be provided for or to meet with Jesus. And yeah, 447 00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:29,720 Speaker 3: it is kind of incredible just the it kind of 448 00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:32,600 Speaker 3: brings me into mind of kind of just God's creativity 449 00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:37,280 Speaker 3: of like in these places which you know, I with 450 00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:41,160 Speaker 3: my research research heads, like you know, I look at 451 00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:43,400 Speaker 3: it and I say, you know, oh, that's you know, 452 00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:47,800 Speaker 3: it's restrictive. It's restrictive of movement, it's restricting these rights. 453 00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:51,400 Speaker 3: It's you know, we've got these challenges, you know, and 454 00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:54,480 Speaker 3: yet God, God is on the move and God is 455 00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:55,760 Speaker 3: doing incredible things. 456 00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:57,800 Speaker 1: That's so encouraging. I love that. 457 00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:02,040 Speaker 2: Well, could you give us just some basic prayer points 458 00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:05,719 Speaker 2: based on what you're seeing? What are some how can 459 00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:10,680 Speaker 2: our listeners pray for men and women and children in 460 00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:11,760 Speaker 2: the persecuted church? 461 00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:16,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean kind of really specifically, I'd love if 462 00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:20,120 Speaker 3: we could pray or your listeners could be praying for 463 00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:26,000 Speaker 3: for Ariana for believers like her in Afghanistan. You know, 464 00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:28,440 Speaker 3: it's a very specific requests, which is not quite what 465 00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:30,840 Speaker 3: you've asked, but you know, it would be great to 466 00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:36,360 Speaker 3: pray for for female believers in Afghanistan who are facing Yeah, 467 00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:41,000 Speaker 3: this all these kind of compounding challenges. Speaking more generally 468 00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:44,840 Speaker 3: about the persctor church as a whole, you know, praying 469 00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:48,880 Speaker 3: for strength, for encouragement, praying for the Holy Spirit to 470 00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:55,880 Speaker 3: move in those situations and places, praying for yeah, prayer 471 00:29:55,880 --> 00:30:00,719 Speaker 3: being for healing, for provision. And I mutually reminded of 472 00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:05,040 Speaker 3: someone I'm friends with at church. You know, we're talking 473 00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:07,920 Speaker 3: a little bit about about their work a few weeks ago, 474 00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:11,880 Speaker 3: and she was kind of running after her kids, and 475 00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:14,800 Speaker 3: she kind of closed the conversation and she says kind 476 00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:18,800 Speaker 3: of somehow peace, And I think often that's, you know, 477 00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:21,000 Speaker 3: that's a great way to kind of pray. Often we 478 00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:23,600 Speaker 3: feel like we don't have the words or you know, 479 00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:26,120 Speaker 3: we don't have the solutions. But actually, you know, we 480 00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:29,240 Speaker 3: don't need we don't need the solutions. We just need 481 00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:31,680 Speaker 3: to come to God and you know somehow, Lord, you know, 482 00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:35,720 Speaker 3: please please peace in a situation somehow, Lord, you know, 483 00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:41,440 Speaker 3: please strengthen these believers somehow, Lord, you know, please bless 484 00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:44,200 Speaker 3: them with more of your spirit. And you know, we 485 00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:46,600 Speaker 3: don't have to have all the words, and we don't 486 00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:49,520 Speaker 3: need to know, uh don't need to come up with 487 00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:53,400 Speaker 3: the solutions ourselves. But yeah, we can just bring them, 488 00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:54,800 Speaker 3: bring it all to the Lord. 489 00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:55,719 Speaker 1: I love that. 490 00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:57,720 Speaker 2: I think those are the most powerful prayers that we 491 00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:00,560 Speaker 2: can pray. Is when it's just like God, I don't 492 00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:03,640 Speaker 2: have I don't have the solution to pray for, but 493 00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:04,120 Speaker 2: you do. 494 00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:06,280 Speaker 1: There's so much power in that. 495 00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:09,120 Speaker 2: It's a literal I will be done, you know, act 496 00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:13,080 Speaker 2: in this situation as only you can, and all of 497 00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:15,280 Speaker 2: the boundaries, all of the limitations come off. 498 00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:17,560 Speaker 1: I mean, I just think that is such a powerful prayer. 499 00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:18,040 Speaker 1: I love that. 500 00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:20,400 Speaker 2: That's going to be a new category of prayer for me, 501 00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:21,800 Speaker 2: the somehow prayers. 502 00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:23,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that. 503 00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:28,520 Speaker 2: So what are some ways that our listeners can support 504 00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:32,600 Speaker 2: persecuted believers in practical ways? How can we support open Doors? 505 00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:33,200 Speaker 1: What? 506 00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:35,280 Speaker 2: What are the steps for someone that wants to know 507 00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:38,760 Speaker 2: more about how to support persecuted believers? 508 00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:42,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, as I've kind of touched on already, 509 00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:46,400 Speaker 3: you know, our real ask is prayer, and we really 510 00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:48,880 Speaker 3: firmly believe in the power of prayer and the intervention 511 00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:52,800 Speaker 3: of prayer. I'm you know, privileged enough and in my 512 00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:55,520 Speaker 3: job to hear some of the stories of believers you 513 00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:58,720 Speaker 3: kind of share, you know, oh my gosh, Like I 514 00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:01,680 Speaker 3: can't believe those these people who I've never met met 515 00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:03,840 Speaker 3: before who are praying for me, praying for me in 516 00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:06,840 Speaker 3: this situation, and the encouragement that they receive as part 517 00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:09,400 Speaker 3: of that. There's actually, i think on the open Doors 518 00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:12,720 Speaker 3: website at the moment, and stories from North Korean believers 519 00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:15,680 Speaker 3: who are kind of sharing their responses to the prayers 520 00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:19,680 Speaker 3: that they've received. And you know, the amazing thing about 521 00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:22,920 Speaker 3: prayers that it doesn't just kind of transform other people's 522 00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:25,320 Speaker 3: lives that it also transforms our own, and we can 523 00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:28,160 Speaker 3: you know, we can also at the same time as 524 00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:30,560 Speaker 3: we look to support the persecuted church, we can be 525 00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:34,320 Speaker 3: encouraged and strengthened in our face at at the same time. 526 00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:37,880 Speaker 3: So yeah, if you if you want to be part 527 00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:39,880 Speaker 3: of that, if you want to want to pray for 528 00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:43,920 Speaker 3: pray for the persecute to church, we'd love it if 529 00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:48,200 Speaker 3: you visited our website, which is ad us dot org, 530 00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:51,640 Speaker 3: boy slash w w L. That will take ct a 531 00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:55,080 Speaker 3: page with lots of information about the World Watch List, 532 00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:58,280 Speaker 3: so you can pray further there and it's also a 533 00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:01,160 Speaker 3: good gateway into there's lots of other resources on the 534 00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:04,800 Speaker 3: website as well. And yeah, if you want to follow 535 00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:07,280 Speaker 3: us on social media, if you look on Facebook or 536 00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:13,880 Speaker 3: Open Doors US and there's videos, there's stories, there's prodcusts there, 537 00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:16,400 Speaker 3: which you know, if you're looking for something to encourage 538 00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:19,720 Speaker 3: you to prey on your social media feeds, that's yeah, 539 00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:21,720 Speaker 3: a great, a great place to start as well. 540 00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:24,640 Speaker 1: Who couldn't use more positive things on their social media 541 00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:25,360 Speaker 1: feed right? 542 00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:28,240 Speaker 3: Absolutely, we need that. 543 00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:32,320 Speaker 2: No, I cannot emphasize enough that your website is like 544 00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:37,680 Speaker 2: a treasure trove of information for people who care about prayer, 545 00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:41,760 Speaker 2: and it is just amazing. So that's a great resource. 546 00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:46,080 Speaker 2: That's open door odus dot org. Right, and then to 547 00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:49,200 Speaker 2: get to the World Watch List, it's forward slash WWL 548 00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:52,640 Speaker 2: and we'll link to that in our description our show notes. 549 00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:54,720 Speaker 1: Well, how can we pray for you. 550 00:33:55,440 --> 00:34:00,480 Speaker 2: Today, Rachel, either personally or for open Doors or for 551 00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:03,040 Speaker 2: whatever is on your heart? How can we pray? I 552 00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:06,480 Speaker 2: already know for sure we'll be praying for Arianna and 553 00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:09,120 Speaker 2: just for some of the prayer points you touched on before, 554 00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:10,439 Speaker 2: but anything. 555 00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:13,680 Speaker 3: Else, yeah, I'd love it if you could just pray 556 00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:17,760 Speaker 3: for our kind of open Door staff we think about, 557 00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:20,799 Speaker 3: you know, our staff and also our partners kind of 558 00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:25,880 Speaker 3: on the ground and lots of fragile and challenging contexts, 559 00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:28,319 Speaker 3: you know. Yeah, it'd be great, great if we could 560 00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:30,440 Speaker 3: pray for them, and also kind of for our leadership 561 00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:35,879 Speaker 3: as they navigate situations with wisdom and strength and yeah, 562 00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:37,799 Speaker 3: the encouragement and defendment of the Lord. 563 00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:41,880 Speaker 2: All right, absolutely, thank you so much for joining us, Rachel. 564 00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:43,080 Speaker 1: This has been so good. 565 00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:46,000 Speaker 2: I know our listeners are going to love this, and 566 00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:48,879 Speaker 2: thank you for your time and just for the work 567 00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:49,359 Speaker 2: you're doing. 568 00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:51,640 Speaker 3: It was Yeah, it was such a pleasure to talk 569 00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:51,840 Speaker 3: with you. 570 00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:55,879 Speaker 2: Thank you all right, let's pray God. We just thank 571 00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:59,560 Speaker 2: you so much for open doors. Thank you for the 572 00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:05,120 Speaker 2: work doing. Thank you for the risks that everyone involved 573 00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:09,400 Speaker 2: takes on a daily basis to work with and to 574 00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:13,160 Speaker 2: learn more about the persecuted church. Thank you for Rachel 575 00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:16,640 Speaker 2: and her willingness to share. Lord, we lift up Ariana 576 00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:21,920 Speaker 2: in Afghanistan. We just thank you that you are faithful, 577 00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:25,160 Speaker 2: that you're a redeemer. We just pray for her, Lord 578 00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:28,360 Speaker 2: and for all the female believers in Afghanistan, that you 579 00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:32,399 Speaker 2: would give them strength, that you would give them encouragement, 580 00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:36,640 Speaker 2: that you would protect them, and that you would just 581 00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:40,400 Speaker 2: give them hope even in the darkest of times. That 582 00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:44,640 Speaker 2: you would just meet them in the very darkest part 583 00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:50,160 Speaker 2: of their fears, their experiences, and that you would just 584 00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:52,879 Speaker 2: give them, give them a ray of hope, give them love, 585 00:35:53,719 --> 00:35:57,680 Speaker 2: and surround them with your presence, surround them with people 586 00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:01,120 Speaker 2: who will encourage them and protect them. And we just 587 00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:02,879 Speaker 2: pray that you would meet them where they are, and 588 00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:06,120 Speaker 2: that what the enemy has intended for evil, that you 589 00:36:06,239 --> 00:36:11,799 Speaker 2: would redeem and reclaim for your glory and for the 590 00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:14,000 Speaker 2: good of those who love you, who are called according 591 00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:17,120 Speaker 2: to your purpose, and we just thank you that you 592 00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:19,960 Speaker 2: already do that, You're already in the midst of it, 593 00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:21,279 Speaker 2: and we just welcome more of it. 594 00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:21,919 Speaker 1: Lord. 595 00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:25,600 Speaker 2: We just pray for the believers in Somalia, the believers 596 00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:29,759 Speaker 2: in North Korea, in Bangladesh, in all of these places 597 00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:34,120 Speaker 2: that are just hotbeds of persecution. We pray that your 598 00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:39,799 Speaker 2: light would overcome the darkness, and just that the persecuted 599 00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:44,239 Speaker 2: church in all of these places would not only survive 600 00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:45,760 Speaker 2: but thrive. 601 00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:49,439 Speaker 1: We pray for revival. We pray for you to meet 602 00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:50,240 Speaker 1: people in. 603 00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:55,839 Speaker 2: Creative, unique ways where all other ways seem blocked, that 604 00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:58,360 Speaker 2: you would just meet them directly, whether it's through dreams 605 00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:03,680 Speaker 2: or visions, whether it's through unexpected meetings with believers, whether 606 00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:07,520 Speaker 2: it's a Bible that is found and read. We pray 607 00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:12,200 Speaker 2: that you would just remove any blocks from the Gospel 608 00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:15,440 Speaker 2: getting to every corner of these places, God, and that 609 00:37:15,560 --> 00:37:18,000 Speaker 2: the Gospel would go out, that it would not return empty. 610 00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:21,440 Speaker 2: Thank you so much for your faithfulness, for your goodness, 611 00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:23,560 Speaker 2: for being a redeemer, and thank you for open doors. 612 00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:26,560 Speaker 2: And we pray your blessing on their organization. We pray 613 00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:29,880 Speaker 2: for their staff, for their partners on the ground, for 614 00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:34,560 Speaker 2: their safety, for their leadership, for energy, for being able 615 00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:38,560 Speaker 2: to persevere through difficult things, and just for your complete 616 00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:45,600 Speaker 2: protection and provision in every way. Amen, we'd like to 617 00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:47,520 Speaker 2: take just a quick second to thank the team at 618 00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:50,319 Speaker 2: Life Audio for their partnership with us on the podcast. 619 00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:53,319 Speaker 2: If you go to lifeaudio dot com, you will find 620 00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:55,920 Speaker 2: dozens of other faith centered podcasts in their network. 621 00:37:56,239 --> 00:37:57,400 Speaker 1: They've got shows about. 622 00:37:57,160 --> 00:38:01,359 Speaker 2: Prayer, Bible study, parenting, and so much more. That's life 623 00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:06,080 Speaker 2: audio dot com.