1 00:00:12,030 --> 00:00:14,950 Speaker 1: This is Donna Jones, and you are listening to That's 2 00:00:15,150 --> 00:00:17,870 Speaker 1: Just What I Needed. Hey, friend, if you've ever been 3 00:00:17,890 --> 00:00:20,770 Speaker 1: in a conversation where you've walked away thinking, wow, that 4 00:00:20,790 --> 00:00:23,500 Speaker 1: was just what I needed, you know how life-giving that 5 00:00:23,520 --> 00:00:26,000 Speaker 1: can be. Well, that's what this podcast is all about. 6 00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:29,280 Speaker 1: We're women who want to know, love, and follow God 7 00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:32,159 Speaker 1: in our real lives, but sometimes wonder just how to 8 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:34,820 Speaker 1: do it. So each week, we'll talk about what Paul 9 00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:37,099 Speaker 1: and God looks like in the midst of daily demands 10 00:00:37,300 --> 00:00:41,589 Speaker 1: and crazy cultural chaos. Because this isn't just what we need. 11 00:00:41,870 --> 00:00:46,370 Speaker 1: It's actually exactly what we need. Hey, hey, my friend, 12 00:00:46,409 --> 00:00:49,450 Speaker 1: and welcome to the podcast. Well, as you know, this 13 00:00:49,520 --> 00:00:56,580 Speaker 1: podcast is titled, That's Just What I Needed. And today's conversation... 14 00:00:56,450 --> 00:00:59,810 Speaker 1: is pretty much what we all need because we are 15 00:00:59,850 --> 00:01:03,870 Speaker 1: tackling the topic of comparison. Let me tell you a 16 00:01:04,010 --> 00:01:07,280 Speaker 1: little bit about today's guest. Her name is Heather Creekmore. 17 00:01:07,560 --> 00:01:12,180 Speaker 1: Heather is a podcaster and she is an author. She's 18 00:01:12,319 --> 00:01:16,679 Speaker 1: written this great new book called The Comparison-Free Life. And 19 00:01:16,700 --> 00:01:22,070 Speaker 1: the subtitle is How to Stop Comparing and Find Joy, Peace, 20 00:01:22,569 --> 00:01:26,100 Speaker 1: and Rest. Doesn't that sound like a little slice of 21 00:01:26,180 --> 00:01:29,440 Speaker 1: heaven that I know we can all benefit from? Heather 22 00:01:29,520 --> 00:01:32,429 Speaker 1: makes her home in Austin, Texas with her husband and 23 00:01:32,510 --> 00:01:35,990 Speaker 1: her four teenagers, and it is my joy to welcome 24 00:01:36,030 --> 00:01:40,980 Speaker 1: to the podcast my new friend, Heather Creekmore. Well, Heather, 25 00:01:41,020 --> 00:01:42,259 Speaker 1: welcome to the podcast. 26 00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:44,380 Speaker 2: Oh, Donna, it's so fun to be with you today. 27 00:01:44,800 --> 00:01:47,140 Speaker 1: We were having so much fun before we even hit 28 00:01:47,200 --> 00:01:49,660 Speaker 1: record because you're my people. 29 00:01:49,860 --> 00:01:52,750 Speaker 2: Tell us where you live. I live in Austin, Texas. 30 00:01:53,280 --> 00:01:56,630 Speaker 1: And you are a fellow podcaster and you are a 31 00:01:56,810 --> 00:01:58,889 Speaker 1: fellow pastor's wife and a fellow author. 32 00:01:58,930 --> 00:02:00,790 Speaker 2: So we have so much in common. 33 00:02:01,330 --> 00:02:06,960 Speaker 1: You have written this great book called The Comparison-Free Life. Okay, 34 00:02:07,020 --> 00:02:09,880 Speaker 1: and here's the subtitle, which I love because this gets 35 00:02:10,220 --> 00:02:12,710 Speaker 1: down and dirty and practical. The subtitle is How to 36 00:02:12,770 --> 00:02:17,549 Speaker 1: Stop Comparing and Find Joy, Peace, and Rest. Okay, so 37 00:02:17,669 --> 00:02:20,809 Speaker 1: I can just imagine everybody leaning forward and like, oh, 38 00:02:21,270 --> 00:02:24,090 Speaker 1: she's going to help me bag this whole comparison thing 39 00:02:24,380 --> 00:02:27,200 Speaker 1: and find joy, peace, and rest. Okay, I'm in it 40 00:02:27,260 --> 00:02:29,500 Speaker 1: for those of you, I'm in it. So tell me 41 00:02:29,760 --> 00:02:32,700 Speaker 1: why you even decided to write a book on this. 42 00:02:32,740 --> 00:02:33,959 Speaker 1: What's your personal journey? 43 00:02:34,690 --> 00:02:38,450 Speaker 2: We all have a story, right, Donna? And mine is 44 00:02:39,090 --> 00:02:42,910 Speaker 2: I said the sinner's prayer and knew I was a Christian, 45 00:02:43,290 --> 00:02:47,910 Speaker 2: probably age three-ish. Before I learned to tie my shoes, 46 00:02:48,270 --> 00:02:49,889 Speaker 2: you know, I think I probably said the sinner's prayer 47 00:02:49,910 --> 00:02:52,750 Speaker 2: a couple dozen times just to be sure. And so 48 00:02:52,910 --> 00:02:55,710 Speaker 2: I was raised in a Christian home. I went to 49 00:02:55,730 --> 00:02:59,690 Speaker 2: Christian schools. I knew all the Christian answers for all 50 00:02:59,740 --> 00:03:02,380 Speaker 2: the things. But then I had this struggle and it 51 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:05,989 Speaker 2: was a struggle that I thought was kind of completely 52 00:03:06,130 --> 00:03:10,720 Speaker 2: separate from my Christian God and Jesus answers kind of life. 53 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:14,320 Speaker 2: And that was a struggle with my body, with my appearance. 54 00:03:14,639 --> 00:03:18,140 Speaker 2: And I mean, we all struggle in that way, right? 55 00:03:18,200 --> 00:03:20,139 Speaker 2: Like it, you know, felt to me like this was 56 00:03:20,180 --> 00:03:22,359 Speaker 2: just because I was a woman. This was just a 57 00:03:22,440 --> 00:03:27,419 Speaker 2: woman's issue. And my mom struggled and my aunt struggled 58 00:03:27,540 --> 00:03:30,280 Speaker 2: and my grandma, like every woman I knew was dealing 59 00:03:30,300 --> 00:03:32,580 Speaker 2: with this. And they all had their God and Jesus 60 00:03:32,660 --> 00:03:35,460 Speaker 2: answers down. And so why would it be any different 61 00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:39,800 Speaker 2: for me? And so I really had segmented my struggle 62 00:03:39,900 --> 00:03:44,140 Speaker 2: with body, which eventually became a struggle with food and 63 00:03:44,200 --> 00:03:49,370 Speaker 2: an eating disorder and all kinds of crazy behaviors. And 64 00:03:49,450 --> 00:03:51,990 Speaker 2: I say crazy, but they're so normative. I mean, I 65 00:03:52,010 --> 00:03:54,770 Speaker 2: was just doing what everyone else was doing. But all 66 00:03:54,830 --> 00:03:59,810 Speaker 2: the things, trying to improve myself, trying to make myself 67 00:04:00,030 --> 00:04:03,580 Speaker 2: look better, trying to make myself be better, trying to 68 00:04:03,700 --> 00:04:07,260 Speaker 2: perfect an image. And that was just a completely different 69 00:04:07,320 --> 00:04:10,000 Speaker 2: part of my life than what I thought I was 70 00:04:10,060 --> 00:04:12,570 Speaker 2: doing in terms of going to Jesus and serving at 71 00:04:12,610 --> 00:04:15,790 Speaker 2: church and being a good Christian girl. And so I 72 00:04:15,930 --> 00:04:18,390 Speaker 2: really just thought this was the way it was going 73 00:04:18,410 --> 00:04:21,610 Speaker 2: to have to be. Things like comparison and embodiment issues 74 00:04:21,630 --> 00:04:23,529 Speaker 2: were just things I was always going to struggle with because, 75 00:04:23,950 --> 00:04:25,909 Speaker 2: like I said, I had the God and Jesus answer. 76 00:04:25,990 --> 00:04:27,890 Speaker 2: I knew I was going to heaven. And it wasn't 77 00:04:27,970 --> 00:04:31,710 Speaker 2: until I was in my mid-30s and I heard a teaching, 78 00:04:32,230 --> 00:04:37,150 Speaker 2: that I'd never heard before around idolatry and modern day idolatry. 79 00:04:37,630 --> 00:04:41,059 Speaker 2: And it wasn't audible, Donna, but like I very much 80 00:04:41,240 --> 00:04:44,320 Speaker 2: felt the Holy Spirit say, Heather, this is your problem. 81 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:49,740 Speaker 2: You have made your body an idol. And man, that 82 00:04:49,800 --> 00:04:52,700 Speaker 2: changed everything for me because candidly, and this isn't the 83 00:04:52,740 --> 00:04:55,760 Speaker 2: answer anyone loves, but I didn't think I had a 84 00:04:55,860 --> 00:04:58,400 Speaker 2: sin issue, right? I mean, being a good steward of 85 00:04:58,420 --> 00:05:00,920 Speaker 2: your body and trying to look better and like, that's 86 00:05:00,940 --> 00:05:04,130 Speaker 2: not really sin, is it? And in some cases it's not. 87 00:05:04,150 --> 00:05:07,010 Speaker 2: So please don't hear me wrong. But the way I 88 00:05:07,130 --> 00:05:10,110 Speaker 2: had treated it in my life, the way I had 89 00:05:10,190 --> 00:05:13,229 Speaker 2: prioritized it in my life, the way I had looked 90 00:05:13,529 --> 00:05:17,850 Speaker 2: to improving myself and what I look like in my life, 91 00:05:17,910 --> 00:05:22,910 Speaker 2: and I prioritized that above everything else, I had made 92 00:05:22,950 --> 00:05:26,169 Speaker 2: it an idol. And so God took me on a journey, 93 00:05:26,210 --> 00:05:31,550 Speaker 2: like I said, mid-30s forward, where He really showed me 94 00:05:31,930 --> 00:05:35,040 Speaker 2: all the other things I was worshiping. And honestly, all 95 00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:42,140 Speaker 2: the other things I was expecting to deliver. Peace, joy, rest, satisfaction. 96 00:05:43,110 --> 00:05:47,130 Speaker 2: opened the doorway to love I never knew like all 97 00:05:47,170 --> 00:05:49,279 Speaker 2: of these things and none of it was like front 98 00:05:49,320 --> 00:05:52,340 Speaker 2: of mind it was all like oh wow god you're 99 00:05:52,360 --> 00:05:56,119 Speaker 2: right like I do actually believe that if I looked 100 00:05:56,260 --> 00:05:59,279 Speaker 2: better I would have more joy, peace, rest, and love. 101 00:05:59,779 --> 00:06:02,080 Speaker 2: I do actually believe that if I could just like 102 00:06:02,110 --> 00:06:04,510 Speaker 2: get this part of my life more organized or I 103 00:06:04,550 --> 00:06:07,410 Speaker 2: could just like be better in this area or like 104 00:06:07,450 --> 00:06:11,270 Speaker 2: just improve this, then everything would be better. And really, Donna, 105 00:06:11,300 --> 00:06:14,020 Speaker 2: like when we talk about comparison, right, that's what's underneath 106 00:06:14,060 --> 00:06:17,210 Speaker 2: it all. is this belief that if I were better 107 00:06:17,330 --> 00:06:21,570 Speaker 2: like her, or for some of us, okay, as we're aging, 108 00:06:22,210 --> 00:06:24,550 Speaker 2: if I could be better like I was 10 years ago, 109 00:06:24,570 --> 00:06:27,170 Speaker 2: or like I was 20 years ago, right? Either way, 110 00:06:27,210 --> 00:06:31,630 Speaker 2: it's all comparison. But if I could be better like that, then... 111 00:06:32,220 --> 00:06:35,940 Speaker 2: and insert whatever dream you think will be fulfilled here. 112 00:06:36,620 --> 00:06:39,200 Speaker 2: And that was why I wrote the book. God had 113 00:06:39,360 --> 00:06:42,960 Speaker 2: taken me on a journey to really see this clearly 114 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:45,200 Speaker 2: for what it was. And I want to try this 115 00:06:45,240 --> 00:06:47,700 Speaker 2: so carefully here because this is such a tough subject. 116 00:06:48,350 --> 00:06:50,490 Speaker 2: But I feel like in the church and, you know, 117 00:06:50,510 --> 00:06:52,969 Speaker 2: I'm a pastor's wife like you. And so I love 118 00:06:53,010 --> 00:06:55,130 Speaker 2: the church. I love it with all my heart. Okay. 119 00:06:55,430 --> 00:07:00,660 Speaker 2: But in the church, we tend to just kind of teehee. 120 00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:04,440 Speaker 2: I have a comparison issue and just kind of, you know, like, oh, well, 121 00:07:04,460 --> 00:07:07,320 Speaker 2: we all struggle in that way. Oh, oh, shucks. I'm 122 00:07:07,339 --> 00:07:12,040 Speaker 2: comparing myself again. And we tend to miss this reality 123 00:07:12,080 --> 00:07:16,250 Speaker 2: that no, actually, like it's a sin struggle. that our 124 00:07:16,490 --> 00:07:21,670 Speaker 2: depraved selves are struggling with. And there's a cure for 125 00:07:21,690 --> 00:07:23,890 Speaker 2: it because there's a cure for sin, right? That's the 126 00:07:23,930 --> 00:07:28,100 Speaker 2: good news. Jesus died to cover this sin. But man, 127 00:07:28,190 --> 00:07:30,540 Speaker 2: unless we see it for what it is, we just 128 00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:32,260 Speaker 2: stay stuck there. Wow. 129 00:07:32,480 --> 00:07:35,120 Speaker 1: Okay. As you were just talking, my mind was processing 130 00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:38,700 Speaker 1: some things. And number one, you said, you used the 131 00:07:38,740 --> 00:07:44,310 Speaker 1: word improve several times, right? And See, here's where it 132 00:07:44,350 --> 00:07:49,940 Speaker 1: gets subtle because to improve is a positive thing. It's, 133 00:07:50,220 --> 00:07:52,020 Speaker 1: you know, we may even say like that's a godly 134 00:07:52,060 --> 00:07:56,470 Speaker 1: thing because aren't we supposed to get better and better 135 00:07:56,550 --> 00:08:00,490 Speaker 1: and better, right? Be more holy, be, well, better, I 136 00:08:00,530 --> 00:08:02,650 Speaker 1: guess is the word I said, but it really is 137 00:08:02,930 --> 00:08:04,140 Speaker 1: the word that describes it. 138 00:08:04,290 --> 00:08:06,030 Speaker 2: So this becomes really subtle. 139 00:08:06,530 --> 00:08:09,880 Speaker 1: And you mentioned like when we look at maybe the 140 00:08:09,890 --> 00:08:12,860 Speaker 1: way our body image, the way we look to make 141 00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:15,880 Speaker 1: us feel better, there is an element like, if I 142 00:08:15,940 --> 00:08:19,400 Speaker 1: look good, I feel good, right? If my house is 143 00:08:20,110 --> 00:08:23,810 Speaker 1: is organized and put together, I mean, I feel less chaotic. 144 00:08:23,870 --> 00:08:24,570 Speaker 2: I feel better. 145 00:08:24,770 --> 00:08:28,390 Speaker 1: This is why it gets really messy because there's kind 146 00:08:28,450 --> 00:08:32,480 Speaker 1: of an element of truth, but you're saying, I think 147 00:08:32,520 --> 00:08:36,660 Speaker 1: if I'm hearing you right, there's that fine line where 148 00:08:36,860 --> 00:08:41,020 Speaker 1: you tip over, where it's not just, hey, I'm trying 149 00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:43,060 Speaker 1: to look my best or I'm just trying to keep 150 00:08:43,100 --> 00:08:47,490 Speaker 1: my house organized. It becomes something that's a driver. for you, 151 00:08:47,670 --> 00:08:50,030 Speaker 1: an idol for you. Is that what you're saying? 152 00:08:50,770 --> 00:08:54,400 Speaker 2: Yes. Okay, so idols are so sneaky, though. Even in 153 00:08:54,440 --> 00:08:58,120 Speaker 2: the scenarios you just presented, like, of course I feel 154 00:08:58,179 --> 00:09:03,100 Speaker 2: better if I look better. But even in that, Donna, 155 00:09:03,320 --> 00:09:06,620 Speaker 2: I would argue we have to be very careful, right? 156 00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:11,160 Speaker 2: Because if I take confidence in the way I look... 157 00:09:12,040 --> 00:09:16,270 Speaker 2: Who is my confidence in? It's in me. It's in myself. 158 00:09:16,809 --> 00:09:20,589 Speaker 2: And I am a horrible place to put confidence in, right? 159 00:09:20,650 --> 00:09:24,690 Speaker 2: So the word pistis in Greek, in scripture, is the 160 00:09:24,750 --> 00:09:29,830 Speaker 2: word that is used throughout the New Testament for either faith, belief, 161 00:09:30,380 --> 00:09:33,030 Speaker 2: or confidence. right? In the Old Testament, the word would 162 00:09:33,050 --> 00:09:35,270 Speaker 2: be trust or do the equivalent. And so we read 163 00:09:35,290 --> 00:09:39,220 Speaker 2: through the New Testament places about having belief or trusting 164 00:09:39,260 --> 00:09:42,440 Speaker 2: in God or having confidence in Him, right? It's all 165 00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:45,559 Speaker 2: the same word. Where as Americans, we tend to say 166 00:09:45,580 --> 00:09:48,339 Speaker 2: things like, well, I believe God, but man, it's hard 167 00:09:48,380 --> 00:09:51,250 Speaker 2: to trust Him. That's actually not biblically accurate. It's all 168 00:09:51,309 --> 00:09:55,370 Speaker 2: the same word, okay? So if you believe Him, then 169 00:09:55,429 --> 00:09:59,230 Speaker 2: your trust must be in Him and your confidence must 170 00:09:59,350 --> 00:10:02,610 Speaker 2: be in him. And so that subtle line you're talking about, 171 00:10:02,990 --> 00:10:05,630 Speaker 2: it is subtle because idle slash sneaky, like I said, 172 00:10:06,090 --> 00:10:11,040 Speaker 2: we really have to constantly be examining our motives and 173 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:14,819 Speaker 2: actually seeing God search my heart because it's deceitful. I'm 174 00:10:14,860 --> 00:10:16,940 Speaker 2: not actually going to be able to see what's there 175 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:19,480 Speaker 2: most of the time. And asking him to do that 176 00:10:19,580 --> 00:10:24,910 Speaker 2: because it's so easy for us to take confidence in 177 00:10:25,150 --> 00:10:28,579 Speaker 2: our accomplishments. Or take confidence in the way we look 178 00:10:28,860 --> 00:10:32,670 Speaker 2: and our confidence 100% and totally actually needs to be 179 00:10:33,170 --> 00:10:37,829 Speaker 2: in the Lord. And that's good news because He doesn't change, right? Like, 180 00:10:37,870 --> 00:10:40,069 Speaker 2: goodness gracious, those of us that are aging, I did 181 00:10:40,110 --> 00:10:42,209 Speaker 2: a devotional on aging. I've got a second devotional on 182 00:10:42,270 --> 00:10:46,030 Speaker 2: aging coming out. So I talk a lot about aging. 183 00:10:46,090 --> 00:10:48,920 Speaker 2: I hear a lot about aging from women that I 184 00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:51,660 Speaker 2: work with, right? Like, if my confidence is in how 185 00:10:51,740 --> 00:10:54,280 Speaker 2: I look at age 40, I am not going to 186 00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:58,069 Speaker 2: look the same at age 60. It's impossible. And so 187 00:10:58,330 --> 00:11:01,170 Speaker 2: my confidence is going to what? Wane, right? It's going 188 00:11:01,210 --> 00:11:03,020 Speaker 2: to disappear. I can hang on to it. I mean, 189 00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:05,300 Speaker 2: I can try. I can try to do some things. 190 00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:07,579 Speaker 2: At the end of the day, a 60-year-old and a 191 00:11:07,580 --> 00:11:10,700 Speaker 2: 40-year-old do not look the same. And so if my 192 00:11:10,740 --> 00:11:12,679 Speaker 2: confidence is in me and the way I look, it's 193 00:11:12,700 --> 00:11:15,420 Speaker 2: going to fade. If my confidence is in the Lord, 194 00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:20,350 Speaker 2: it's never changing. And then that gives me confidence that, okay, aging, goodness, 195 00:11:20,400 --> 00:11:22,670 Speaker 2: it happened to me. Hormones hit all at once. I 196 00:11:22,690 --> 00:11:25,329 Speaker 2: thought my 40s were awesome. I'm like 50 game. And 197 00:11:25,350 --> 00:11:26,890 Speaker 2: I was like, whoa, what is this? I thought I 198 00:11:26,890 --> 00:11:29,860 Speaker 2: had avoided this. But I mean, the worst happened. right? 199 00:11:30,059 --> 00:11:33,310 Speaker 2: You're in an accident. You have a stroke. Something happens 200 00:11:33,350 --> 00:11:35,550 Speaker 2: that changes the way you look and your confidence doesn't 201 00:11:35,570 --> 00:11:38,150 Speaker 2: have to disappear because it was never in that thing 202 00:11:38,250 --> 00:11:42,240 Speaker 2: to begin with. Does that clarify a little? Yeah, yeah, yeah. 203 00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:45,610 Speaker 1: And I'm really glad we're going there because I think 204 00:11:45,890 --> 00:11:48,270 Speaker 1: that as I'm listening to you and other people are 205 00:11:48,309 --> 00:11:51,489 Speaker 1: listening to our conversation, I bet you for the first 206 00:11:51,530 --> 00:11:55,490 Speaker 1: time they're like, huh, I've never really thought of this 207 00:11:56,010 --> 00:11:59,189 Speaker 1: in this way before. So it's kind of one of 208 00:11:59,250 --> 00:12:04,770 Speaker 1: those eye-opening, heart-opening moments. And what I love about your 209 00:12:04,840 --> 00:12:08,840 Speaker 1: book is you walk us through how to stop comparing. 210 00:12:09,260 --> 00:12:13,140 Speaker 1: Because I think to your point, this is so normal 211 00:12:13,160 --> 00:12:16,730 Speaker 1: in society. being a woman and even being a Christian woman, 212 00:12:16,770 --> 00:12:19,310 Speaker 1: that we don't even think about it. We don't even 213 00:12:19,510 --> 00:12:24,590 Speaker 1: think about the possibility that I could live comparison-free. So 214 00:12:24,750 --> 00:12:26,070 Speaker 1: we're going to take a quick break, and when we 215 00:12:26,110 --> 00:12:30,780 Speaker 1: come back, you're going to give us some hard-fought things 216 00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:36,460 Speaker 1: that you have learned about how to actually live comparison-free. Okay, 217 00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:42,320 Speaker 1: so Heather, you've been telling us that comparison really is 218 00:12:43,100 --> 00:12:46,500 Speaker 1: a heart issue. It's a sin issue. It's an idol issue, 219 00:12:47,540 --> 00:12:51,439 Speaker 1: but there's hope for that. So walk us through, if 220 00:12:52,120 --> 00:12:54,610 Speaker 1: we're listening right now and we're like, oh yeah, I 221 00:12:54,620 --> 00:12:57,309 Speaker 1: guess I do compare. And we've been focusing on body, 222 00:12:57,390 --> 00:13:00,050 Speaker 1: but you can compare lots of different things. You can 223 00:13:00,090 --> 00:13:02,470 Speaker 1: compare your home. You can compare your job. You can 224 00:13:02,710 --> 00:13:07,330 Speaker 1: compare your kids. You can compare your relationship status, whether 225 00:13:07,350 --> 00:13:09,840 Speaker 1: you're married, not married. I mean, there's so many things 226 00:13:09,880 --> 00:13:13,120 Speaker 1: that we can compare, right? Our intellect, our education. I mean, 227 00:13:13,140 --> 00:13:15,020 Speaker 1: the list goes on and on and on and on. 228 00:13:15,040 --> 00:13:17,619 Speaker 1: So walk us through. Somebody is listening right now and 229 00:13:17,660 --> 00:13:20,620 Speaker 1: they're like, yep, I struggle with comparison. Okay, what's she 230 00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:21,300 Speaker 1: supposed to do? 231 00:13:22,690 --> 00:13:26,130 Speaker 2: Talk to her right now. Okay, so step one is 232 00:13:26,230 --> 00:13:28,890 Speaker 2: not a fun step, but this is the only path 233 00:13:28,929 --> 00:13:31,870 Speaker 2: that we have to freedom, which is confess it as sin, right? 234 00:13:32,130 --> 00:13:37,830 Speaker 2: So it is normal to compare yourself. That's absolutely true. Psychologically, human-wise, 235 00:13:37,870 --> 00:13:40,910 Speaker 2: this is what we do. And yet, the life of 236 00:13:41,010 --> 00:13:44,390 Speaker 2: faith is not calling us to be normal and average 237 00:13:44,429 --> 00:13:47,069 Speaker 2: and just like everyone else. In the life of faith, 238 00:13:47,150 --> 00:13:50,270 Speaker 2: we're called to something different. God's kingdom is an upside-down kingdom. 239 00:13:50,809 --> 00:13:55,410 Speaker 2: And we are called to live differently. And so... Saying, okay, yeah, 240 00:13:55,590 --> 00:14:00,140 Speaker 2: I compare myself. And oh, actually, hidden in that comparison 241 00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:03,770 Speaker 2: are things that God clearly lists in scripture as sin, 242 00:14:04,260 --> 00:14:08,900 Speaker 2: like envy, like jealousy, which those are two different concepts. 243 00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:11,060 Speaker 2: And I talk about that in the book. But the 244 00:14:11,140 --> 00:14:13,449 Speaker 2: worst one, oh, Donna, this is the worst one. I 245 00:14:13,470 --> 00:14:15,290 Speaker 2: hate talking about it, but it's just so out there. 246 00:14:15,370 --> 00:14:18,990 Speaker 2: It's pride, right? Like sometimes I compare myself because I 247 00:14:19,030 --> 00:14:21,230 Speaker 2: know I'm going to do better than you. I'm going 248 00:14:21,250 --> 00:14:23,730 Speaker 2: to be like, oh, look, I'm beating her. And it's 249 00:14:23,770 --> 00:14:27,330 Speaker 2: like a little shot of, ooh, a shot of ego. Like, yeah, 250 00:14:27,430 --> 00:14:30,530 Speaker 2: I'm winning. And that works until you find someone who's 251 00:14:30,570 --> 00:14:32,850 Speaker 2: beating you. And then it's like, oh, I'm the worst 252 00:14:32,930 --> 00:14:35,910 Speaker 2: because she's so far ahead. But all of it, according 253 00:14:35,930 --> 00:14:38,520 Speaker 2: to scripture, covetousness, like, man, I wish I had apps 254 00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:41,500 Speaker 2: like hers. Well, that's Don't coveting, I go back to 255 00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:45,420 Speaker 2: the Old Testament, don't covet your neighbor's donkey. That's coveting 256 00:14:45,820 --> 00:14:48,600 Speaker 2: part of your neighbor as if it were a possession, right? 257 00:14:48,620 --> 00:14:52,140 Speaker 2: We're objectifying a sister in Christ or a woman on 258 00:14:52,220 --> 00:14:54,979 Speaker 2: the screen. And we're saying, I wish I had that 259 00:14:55,060 --> 00:14:58,840 Speaker 2: thing she has. And it's all sin. So step one 260 00:14:58,900 --> 00:15:01,900 Speaker 2: is just being like, wow, goodness. I mean, Donna, I 261 00:15:01,940 --> 00:15:03,190 Speaker 2: don't know about you, but for me, I was like, 262 00:15:03,230 --> 00:15:04,660 Speaker 2: I was a pretty good girl. I didn't really think 263 00:15:04,710 --> 00:15:06,750 Speaker 2: I had like a rap sheet of sin I was 264 00:15:06,810 --> 00:15:09,430 Speaker 2: stuck in. But man, I was stuck in comparison. 265 00:15:10,070 --> 00:15:12,150 Speaker 1: Well, and you know what? What it reminds me is 266 00:15:12,210 --> 00:15:15,750 Speaker 1: that comparison is very self-focused. 267 00:15:16,210 --> 00:15:17,030 Speaker 2: That's why you said. 268 00:15:16,930 --> 00:15:22,290 Speaker 1: It's the idol of self, because it's totally looking inward 269 00:15:22,790 --> 00:15:27,630 Speaker 1: and only looking outward to see how do I measure 270 00:15:27,980 --> 00:15:32,380 Speaker 1: up compared to you. So it's very, very self-focused, which 271 00:15:32,460 --> 00:15:33,680 Speaker 1: is why it's pride, right? 272 00:15:34,100 --> 00:15:36,300 Speaker 2: Right. And you're not supposed to be my standard. Like, 273 00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:39,230 Speaker 2: I'm not supposed to be doing better compared to you 274 00:15:39,300 --> 00:15:41,910 Speaker 2: or compared to her. Right. It's like, man, only God's 275 00:15:41,990 --> 00:15:45,030 Speaker 2: word is my standard. And so it distracts us from 276 00:15:45,350 --> 00:15:48,050 Speaker 2: the actual comparison we're supposed to do, which is, well, 277 00:15:48,090 --> 00:15:50,910 Speaker 2: how am I doing on looking like Jesus? Oh, not 278 00:15:50,950 --> 00:15:53,870 Speaker 2: very well. Right. But that's the area we're supposed to 279 00:15:53,930 --> 00:15:56,790 Speaker 2: compare ourselves to, not between sisters. Right. 280 00:15:56,860 --> 00:16:01,260 Speaker 1: And then we pit ourselves against other women. And like 281 00:16:01,300 --> 00:16:04,580 Speaker 1: you said, it either ends up we feel great because 282 00:16:04,640 --> 00:16:06,500 Speaker 1: we feel like we're ahead of her in some way, 283 00:16:06,850 --> 00:16:10,109 Speaker 1: or we feel terrible because we feel like she's so 284 00:16:10,270 --> 00:16:13,810 Speaker 1: far ahead of us. And both of those thoughts... lead 285 00:16:13,890 --> 00:16:16,820 Speaker 1: to feelings. It's really, it's a prison, and which is 286 00:16:16,930 --> 00:16:20,260 Speaker 1: why there's no rest, there's no joy, there's no peace, 287 00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:24,020 Speaker 1: and it's a never-ending prison. So first you're saying, in 288 00:16:24,060 --> 00:16:26,300 Speaker 1: order to get out of that prison, which by the way, 289 00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:29,380 Speaker 1: I'm going to just piggyback on something here I just learned. 290 00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:32,770 Speaker 1: I don't know where I learned this, but comparison's always 291 00:16:32,810 --> 00:16:37,250 Speaker 1: been around, right, since biblical times. However, but it's been 292 00:16:37,430 --> 00:16:41,030 Speaker 1: heightened because do you know that there was no such 293 00:16:41,090 --> 00:16:45,850 Speaker 1: thing as advertising really, until, I don't know, like 150 294 00:16:45,850 --> 00:16:49,800 Speaker 1: years ago, because we had an agricultural society. And then 295 00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:52,720 Speaker 1: when it became industrial, and then it was like people 296 00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:56,520 Speaker 1: were selling things, they had to make you think, oh, 297 00:16:56,640 --> 00:16:59,080 Speaker 1: your life will be less than if you don't have 298 00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:03,020 Speaker 1: this widget. And so we need to create something called 299 00:17:03,110 --> 00:17:06,590 Speaker 1: advertising and marketing to make you feel like you're less 300 00:17:06,650 --> 00:17:08,790 Speaker 1: than if you don't have that so that you will 301 00:17:08,850 --> 00:17:09,200 Speaker 1: buy it. 302 00:17:09,230 --> 00:17:11,900 Speaker 2: So it will drive our economy. And all of this stuff. 303 00:17:11,920 --> 00:17:15,220 Speaker 1: And I was like, oh, that's so fascinating how our 304 00:17:15,380 --> 00:17:17,760 Speaker 1: culture has really played into this. 305 00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:20,540 Speaker 2: And then we bought it hook, line, and sinker. Yeah. 306 00:17:20,580 --> 00:17:22,340 Speaker 2: So what you're talking about is Dale Carnegie in the 307 00:17:22,619 --> 00:17:24,940 Speaker 2: 1920s wrote a book called How to Win Friends and 308 00:17:24,980 --> 00:17:28,980 Speaker 2: Influence People. And that was really the turning point for 309 00:17:29,170 --> 00:17:31,629 Speaker 2: us to create a society that was focused on image 310 00:17:31,670 --> 00:17:36,170 Speaker 2: instead of virtue. So 100 years ago, right, you admired 311 00:17:36,270 --> 00:17:41,820 Speaker 2: someone because they were honest, right? or hardworking, or had integrity, 312 00:17:42,060 --> 00:17:46,830 Speaker 2: or patience, right? All of these biblical qualities. And about 313 00:17:46,830 --> 00:17:51,350 Speaker 2: 100 years ago, enter the advent of marketing and advertising 314 00:17:51,450 --> 00:17:55,270 Speaker 2: to just piggyback the Foundation Carnegie headset with how to 315 00:17:55,310 --> 00:17:59,459 Speaker 2: be a good salesperson, we started valuing image. I respect 316 00:17:59,540 --> 00:18:02,590 Speaker 2: and admire and notice the woman who looks good. I 317 00:18:02,609 --> 00:18:04,810 Speaker 2: don't know if she's patient. I don't know if she's 318 00:18:04,830 --> 00:18:08,379 Speaker 2: got integrity, but she looks good. And that's what I admire. 319 00:18:08,580 --> 00:18:12,360 Speaker 2: It's really recent. Like you said, it's fascinating. But just 320 00:18:12,420 --> 00:18:15,419 Speaker 2: even a hundred years ago, we would have been like, man, 321 00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:18,360 Speaker 2: I wish I was as patient as Donna is. 322 00:18:18,660 --> 00:18:18,820 Speaker 1: Right. 323 00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:24,130 Speaker 2: And we just completely changed the way we're comparing ourselves. Right. 324 00:18:24,369 --> 00:18:25,109 Speaker 2: Oh my goodness. 325 00:18:25,130 --> 00:18:29,010 Speaker 1: And just think about how social media has played into this. 326 00:18:29,210 --> 00:18:29,909 Speaker 2: This is so good. 327 00:18:29,930 --> 00:18:30,490 Speaker 1: This is amazing. 328 00:18:30,609 --> 00:18:30,750 Speaker 2: Okay. 329 00:18:31,080 --> 00:18:33,920 Speaker 1: So first though, we're all realizing that we're in this 330 00:18:34,020 --> 00:18:36,280 Speaker 1: boat because we live in this culture and this is 331 00:18:36,380 --> 00:18:38,620 Speaker 1: part of our reality, but we don't want to stay 332 00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:41,300 Speaker 1: stuck in it. Jesus does not want us in this prison. 333 00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:45,080 Speaker 1: So first we admit, hey, I have this problem. I 334 00:18:45,119 --> 00:18:48,180 Speaker 1: have this issue. It's a sin issue, really. It's a 335 00:18:48,220 --> 00:18:52,040 Speaker 1: pride issue because I'm being completely self-focused and not getting 336 00:18:52,060 --> 00:18:53,270 Speaker 1: my confidence from the Lord. 337 00:18:53,290 --> 00:18:54,929 Speaker 2: Okay, so that's number one. 338 00:18:55,070 --> 00:18:57,190 Speaker 1: So let's just say somebody's driving down the road right 339 00:18:57,230 --> 00:19:01,320 Speaker 1: now and they're thinking, okay, yes, Lord, I understand. This 340 00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:03,690 Speaker 1: is really not from you and I want to get free. 341 00:19:04,390 --> 00:19:07,370 Speaker 1: So I'm admitting it right now. So now she's taken 342 00:19:07,390 --> 00:19:11,050 Speaker 1: the step toward freedom. Okay, now walk her through some 343 00:19:11,090 --> 00:19:12,439 Speaker 1: of the other things that she can do. 344 00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:17,180 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. I mean, so first, like no shame, no condemnation, right? 345 00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:19,780 Speaker 2: When you confess your sins, he is faithful and just 346 00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:21,639 Speaker 2: to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from 347 00:19:21,680 --> 00:19:25,310 Speaker 2: all unrighteousness, right? So you confessed it, you repented, you're 348 00:19:25,390 --> 00:19:27,530 Speaker 2: on a new path. But let me tell you, on 349 00:19:27,570 --> 00:19:30,970 Speaker 2: this new path, you're still going to be tempted to compare. 350 00:19:31,150 --> 00:19:33,390 Speaker 2: And so one of the things that I walk women through, 351 00:19:33,410 --> 00:19:36,290 Speaker 2: I coach women one-on-one. And one of the things that 352 00:19:36,330 --> 00:19:41,159 Speaker 2: we do is it's idol spotting. Because the areas in 353 00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:45,159 Speaker 2: which we are tempted to compare ourselves to others are 354 00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:49,090 Speaker 2: the areas in which we most likely have idols. So 355 00:19:49,109 --> 00:19:52,850 Speaker 2: I do. do not often compare myself to other people 356 00:19:52,890 --> 00:19:54,890 Speaker 2: in terms of how wealthy they are. And it's not 357 00:19:54,930 --> 00:19:58,900 Speaker 2: because I'm wealthy. We are solidly middle class, okay? But 358 00:19:59,100 --> 00:20:02,020 Speaker 2: I'm not trying to be richer than everyone else. Money 359 00:20:02,060 --> 00:20:04,880 Speaker 2: is not an idol for me. It's just not something 360 00:20:04,940 --> 00:20:09,060 Speaker 2: that I am pursuing or Just suck in. Oh man, 361 00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:13,139 Speaker 2: but being skinny is. So watching women walk by who 362 00:20:13,220 --> 00:20:15,940 Speaker 2: are thinner, I'm like, yeah, how do I do that? 363 00:20:16,100 --> 00:20:18,270 Speaker 2: How do I be like that? What else can I 364 00:20:18,330 --> 00:20:20,810 Speaker 2: do to try to become more like that, right? And 365 00:20:20,890 --> 00:20:23,610 Speaker 2: so in the area in which you are most tempted 366 00:20:23,710 --> 00:20:28,120 Speaker 2: to compare yourself, you will find that a hidden belief. 367 00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:30,560 Speaker 2: And that hidden belief is from an idol, right? But 368 00:20:30,580 --> 00:20:33,310 Speaker 2: the hidden belief, so the hidden belief for me, it's 369 00:20:33,390 --> 00:20:35,930 Speaker 2: not that if I had more wealth, I would be 370 00:20:36,109 --> 00:20:39,790 Speaker 2: happier or more joyful or more peaceful. The hidden belief 371 00:20:39,830 --> 00:20:42,330 Speaker 2: for me is I actually believe that rest, peace, and 372 00:20:42,410 --> 00:20:45,770 Speaker 2: joy are found in wearing a size two or a 373 00:20:45,830 --> 00:20:50,080 Speaker 2: size four. That's the belief that I wrestle. And so 374 00:20:50,340 --> 00:20:53,380 Speaker 2: once I find that hidden idol, once I'm just kind 375 00:20:53,420 --> 00:20:56,020 Speaker 2: of more aware of the ways that I'm comparing myself 376 00:20:56,060 --> 00:21:00,240 Speaker 2: to others and what those are telling me about my beliefs, 377 00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:02,629 Speaker 2: then I've got more work to do with God because 378 00:21:02,710 --> 00:21:08,510 Speaker 2: it's more business with him. But it really is this like, oh, goodness, Lord, 379 00:21:08,530 --> 00:21:11,929 Speaker 2: I do kind of believe that if I were thinner, 380 00:21:11,950 --> 00:21:15,170 Speaker 2: I would have like all these things that you promised 381 00:21:15,230 --> 00:21:18,190 Speaker 2: to give me. And instead of believing that it comes 382 00:21:18,270 --> 00:21:20,370 Speaker 2: from you, I do actually kind of believe it comes 383 00:21:20,410 --> 00:21:23,180 Speaker 2: from a gene size or it comes from a certain 384 00:21:23,220 --> 00:21:26,369 Speaker 2: title at work or it comes from a certain type 385 00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:29,470 Speaker 2: of family. Or it comes from my kids achieving a 386 00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:32,619 Speaker 2: certain thing or getting into a certain college or having 387 00:21:32,660 --> 00:21:36,139 Speaker 2: a certain career, right? There's all these different ways we 388 00:21:36,180 --> 00:21:40,419 Speaker 2: compare ourselves will reveal to us something we're believing. So 389 00:21:40,460 --> 00:21:42,159 Speaker 2: I would say step two is look into what you're 390 00:21:42,180 --> 00:21:44,100 Speaker 2: really believing. And that's what my book that's coming out 391 00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:47,399 Speaker 2: in February is going to dig into even more is 392 00:21:47,460 --> 00:21:49,840 Speaker 2: like looking into those false beliefs and how those false 393 00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:52,280 Speaker 2: beliefs kind of keep us afraid and anxious and always 394 00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:56,600 Speaker 2: comparing in different areas of our lives. But wherever we compare, 395 00:21:56,640 --> 00:21:58,700 Speaker 2: there's a great quote and it's in that book, Donna, 396 00:21:58,740 --> 00:22:00,939 Speaker 2: and I'm not going to remember who said it. I'm 397 00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:02,770 Speaker 2: going to butcher it just a little bit, but I 398 00:22:02,810 --> 00:22:06,109 Speaker 2: think you'll get the gist. But when we compare, the 399 00:22:06,490 --> 00:22:10,690 Speaker 2: heart posture is God cheated me. Like, oh, God gave 400 00:22:10,730 --> 00:22:14,180 Speaker 2: her a faster metabolism. I'm mad about that. He cheated me. 401 00:22:14,300 --> 00:22:17,020 Speaker 2: God gave her a husband. I'm single. I'm mad about that. 402 00:22:17,060 --> 00:22:19,240 Speaker 2: He cheated me. God gave her kids. Can't have any. 403 00:22:19,540 --> 00:22:23,040 Speaker 2: He cheated me. And so it's a belief problem. Do 404 00:22:23,060 --> 00:22:26,190 Speaker 2: I actually believe that God is good? Or do I 405 00:22:26,210 --> 00:22:28,050 Speaker 2: kind of believe that maybe he's not good to me 406 00:22:28,130 --> 00:22:31,570 Speaker 2: because I don't have what she has? These are really deep, 407 00:22:31,869 --> 00:22:35,609 Speaker 2: sensitive heart issues that God wants to work with us 408 00:22:35,770 --> 00:22:39,740 Speaker 2: on so that we can truly be free. But they're deep. Yeah. 409 00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:41,020 Speaker 1: Yeah, they are deep. 410 00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:41,480 Speaker 2: You're right. 411 00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:44,510 Speaker 1: You have to be willing to do some self-reflection. And 412 00:22:44,550 --> 00:22:47,890 Speaker 1: like you said, to be able to spot the idol, like, okay, 413 00:22:47,950 --> 00:22:50,399 Speaker 1: that's an idol for me. And you know, in the 414 00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:54,700 Speaker 1: Old Testament, I mean, God said, break them down. So, okay, 415 00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:57,679 Speaker 1: if we spot our idols and we say, what's the 416 00:22:57,740 --> 00:23:02,680 Speaker 1: belief underneath that, that I think this idol is going 417 00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:06,300 Speaker 1: to provide for me? And then spotting, okay, well, how 418 00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:09,139 Speaker 1: is God the one that actually provides that? I'm guessing 419 00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:13,190 Speaker 1: that's part of the steps as well, right? So let's 420 00:23:13,230 --> 00:23:16,250 Speaker 1: go with your analogy. So somebody's like, yeah, for me, 421 00:23:16,270 --> 00:23:19,210 Speaker 1: it is the jean size. Or for me, it is 422 00:23:19,730 --> 00:23:22,129 Speaker 1: the house. Or for me, it is the career. Or 423 00:23:23,050 --> 00:23:26,010 Speaker 1: for me, it is the well-behaved kids or whatever. They've 424 00:23:26,050 --> 00:23:29,080 Speaker 1: spotted it and they're like, okay, I need to not 425 00:23:29,140 --> 00:23:30,280 Speaker 1: have that be my idol. 426 00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:33,159 Speaker 2: How do you break it down? How do you demolish it? 427 00:23:33,850 --> 00:23:36,830 Speaker 2: It's again, back to the confess and repent, but it's 428 00:23:36,869 --> 00:23:43,359 Speaker 2: a daily cognition slash like prayer exercise of, oh, I 429 00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:46,320 Speaker 2: saw myself in the mirror. I didn't like what I saw. 430 00:23:46,340 --> 00:23:50,700 Speaker 2: I immediately started to spiral around like, what should I 431 00:23:50,740 --> 00:23:51,950 Speaker 2: do with food today? What do I need to do 432 00:23:51,970 --> 00:23:55,909 Speaker 2: with exercise today? Or just even like negative self-deprecating. And oh, 433 00:23:55,970 --> 00:23:58,790 Speaker 2: I'm right back to believing again that I would have 434 00:23:58,830 --> 00:24:02,810 Speaker 2: a better day. If I saw fewer wrinkles or if 435 00:24:02,890 --> 00:24:05,020 Speaker 2: I saw a different number on the scale. And then 436 00:24:05,060 --> 00:24:08,000 Speaker 2: the question is, okay, well, what's determining how my day goes? Well, 437 00:24:08,100 --> 00:24:10,060 Speaker 2: it's that number on the scale. Well, then who's my God? 438 00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:12,800 Speaker 2: Who am I serving? I'm actually serving a little white 439 00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:16,399 Speaker 2: box on my bathroom floor because that box tells me 440 00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:20,310 Speaker 2: how I am today. And then wait, is that truth? Well, 441 00:24:20,350 --> 00:24:23,150 Speaker 2: now God actually tells me that I'm his beloved daughter, 442 00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:26,000 Speaker 2: that I'm adopted. I'm chosen in him. He has a 443 00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:28,740 Speaker 2: plan and a purpose for my life. He made me 444 00:24:29,180 --> 00:24:32,859 Speaker 2: intentionally knit me together in my mother's room. Knitting is, 445 00:24:33,180 --> 00:24:36,100 Speaker 2: I'm not a knitter, but knitting is very precise, right? 446 00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:38,260 Speaker 2: He knew exactly what he was doing when he made 447 00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:41,790 Speaker 2: me on purpose for his purpose. Like, actually, God's word 448 00:24:41,869 --> 00:24:44,030 Speaker 2: has all this truth about who I am. But every 449 00:24:44,050 --> 00:24:45,909 Speaker 2: day I have to decide, am I going to decide 450 00:24:45,950 --> 00:24:47,930 Speaker 2: who I am based on that number on that little 451 00:24:47,970 --> 00:24:49,889 Speaker 2: box in my bathroom? Or am I going to decide 452 00:24:49,930 --> 00:24:52,230 Speaker 2: who I am based on what God says about me? 453 00:24:52,470 --> 00:24:55,090 Speaker 2: And that's the idol toppling process. It's not a one 454 00:24:55,130 --> 00:24:56,850 Speaker 2: and done. I wish it was. I wish I could 455 00:24:56,869 --> 00:24:58,010 Speaker 2: flip a switch and be like, oh, I'm done with 456 00:24:58,050 --> 00:25:01,320 Speaker 2: that idol. But it is a daily exercise of, oh, wait, 457 00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:04,959 Speaker 2: here I am again, tempted to believe a lie, tempted 458 00:25:05,020 --> 00:25:07,320 Speaker 2: to believe that my day will be better if that 459 00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:10,070 Speaker 2: number is the number that I want to see. which 460 00:25:10,130 --> 00:25:12,470 Speaker 2: works maybe for 24 hours until you get on it 461 00:25:12,510 --> 00:25:16,550 Speaker 2: again when you're bloated. Not too much salt. And it's 462 00:25:16,590 --> 00:25:18,679 Speaker 2: not the number you want to see and then the 463 00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:21,520 Speaker 2: next day is ruined, right? We're not supposed to live 464 00:25:21,580 --> 00:25:24,040 Speaker 2: like that. That's how the world lives, but we have 465 00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:27,400 Speaker 2: a much greater hope and a greater purpose. We don't 466 00:25:27,490 --> 00:25:29,490 Speaker 2: have to serve the God of the scale or the 467 00:25:29,530 --> 00:25:32,430 Speaker 2: God of the mirror. We serve the one true God. 468 00:25:32,820 --> 00:25:36,330 Speaker 2: who already tells us that we're valuable and worthy and 469 00:25:36,450 --> 00:25:39,290 Speaker 2: lovable and all of those things that we desire to 470 00:25:39,369 --> 00:25:41,850 Speaker 2: hear and know about ourselves. And the scale can't answer 471 00:25:41,910 --> 00:25:43,550 Speaker 2: those questions. That's good. 472 00:25:43,630 --> 00:25:46,369 Speaker 1: It reminds me, Heather, of something that my husband says 473 00:25:46,850 --> 00:25:49,340 Speaker 1: all the time. I mean, everybody at our church knows 474 00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:52,300 Speaker 1: that he says this and he has for years, is 475 00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:54,280 Speaker 1: that the truest thing. 476 00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:56,140 Speaker 2: About you is what God says is true. 477 00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:59,280 Speaker 1: And then just reminding the truest thing about me is 478 00:25:59,340 --> 00:26:01,610 Speaker 1: not what people say, not what the scales say, not 479 00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:05,869 Speaker 1: what my accomplishments say, not what externals say. The truest 480 00:26:05,910 --> 00:26:08,590 Speaker 1: thing about me is what God says is true. But 481 00:26:08,609 --> 00:26:12,250 Speaker 1: then also because of comparison is like we mentioned, it's 482 00:26:12,310 --> 00:26:15,310 Speaker 1: very self-focused. And even that, the truest thing about me 483 00:26:15,350 --> 00:26:17,580 Speaker 1: is what God says is true. There is an element 484 00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:21,480 Speaker 1: of self-focus in that. That's probably a healthy self-focus. However, 485 00:26:21,859 --> 00:26:25,240 Speaker 1: I'm guessing that's only partial because the other half is, 486 00:26:25,869 --> 00:26:29,010 Speaker 1: is the truest thing about God is what God says 487 00:26:29,090 --> 00:26:32,389 Speaker 1: is true. So it's like taking that focus off myself 488 00:26:32,580 --> 00:26:35,359 Speaker 1: and putting it on God and others. And I think 489 00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:37,280 Speaker 1: that makes a difference, right? 490 00:26:37,580 --> 00:26:40,179 Speaker 2: Yeah. Okay. So here's the analogy that I use. And 491 00:26:40,220 --> 00:26:42,460 Speaker 2: I think I'm not alone in this, but most women 492 00:26:42,500 --> 00:26:45,830 Speaker 2: that I know, self-included, we kind of have a list 493 00:26:45,869 --> 00:26:49,190 Speaker 2: of standards for ourselves, right? Like it's not written down anywhere, 494 00:26:49,690 --> 00:26:52,810 Speaker 2: but it's like, well, Heather is always on time. I'm 495 00:26:52,830 --> 00:26:56,740 Speaker 2: married to Maureen. This was like a life mantra for us, right? 496 00:26:56,780 --> 00:27:00,350 Speaker 2: Like Heather's always on time and Heather dresses well and 497 00:27:00,410 --> 00:27:03,930 Speaker 2: Heather is articulate and Heather keeps her house well only 498 00:27:03,970 --> 00:27:05,730 Speaker 2: when people come over. You know, and I've got this 499 00:27:05,770 --> 00:27:08,830 Speaker 2: like list of standards I have for myself, right? And 500 00:27:08,970 --> 00:27:11,409 Speaker 2: one time I was kind of, you know, doing what 501 00:27:11,430 --> 00:27:13,409 Speaker 2: we do, right? Beating myself up because I had, oh, 502 00:27:13,430 --> 00:27:16,240 Speaker 2: fallen short of this standard and I didn't do this standard. 503 00:27:16,300 --> 00:27:17,900 Speaker 2: And oh my goodness, did I really leave the house 504 00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:21,520 Speaker 2: like that? And Jesus kind of whispered to me, again, 505 00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:24,820 Speaker 2: not audibly, but like, Heather, whose book is that that 506 00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:28,540 Speaker 2: you're working from? Whose standards are those? Because I already 507 00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:31,580 Speaker 2: wrote a book. I have a set of standards and 508 00:27:32,100 --> 00:27:35,100 Speaker 2: your standards are not the same as my standards. And 509 00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:37,679 Speaker 2: as I processed and prayed through that, I was like, yeah, 510 00:27:37,859 --> 00:27:40,360 Speaker 2: I live by the book of me so much more 511 00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:42,800 Speaker 2: than I live by God's book, right? I go to 512 00:27:42,859 --> 00:27:45,100 Speaker 2: bed beating myself up for the ways I fell short 513 00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:48,489 Speaker 2: of my standards. instead of thinking about, well, how do 514 00:27:48,510 --> 00:27:50,770 Speaker 2: I actually fall short of your standards today, Lord? And 515 00:27:50,810 --> 00:27:52,590 Speaker 2: not that he would beat me up because he doesn't 516 00:27:52,630 --> 00:27:56,520 Speaker 2: condemn us, but it's a daily battle to keep my 517 00:27:56,640 --> 00:28:00,929 Speaker 2: focus on, wait, I'm living for him. I am a servant, 518 00:28:00,990 --> 00:28:04,650 Speaker 2: a slave, even as the word Paul uses to Christ. 519 00:28:05,030 --> 00:28:06,929 Speaker 2: The book of me, I think the best other way 520 00:28:06,950 --> 00:28:09,040 Speaker 2: to think about this, right, is in our culture, we 521 00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:12,320 Speaker 2: see this concept of my truth all the time, my truth. 522 00:28:12,380 --> 00:28:14,280 Speaker 2: And it's super easy for us to be as Christians like, well, 523 00:28:14,300 --> 00:28:16,960 Speaker 2: of course, that's ridiculous. It's God's truth. But how often 524 00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:19,740 Speaker 2: do I live by my truth is what I think 525 00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:22,340 Speaker 2: of me? I mean, I work with women coaching them 526 00:28:22,380 --> 00:28:26,740 Speaker 2: around body image issues every day, really. And women will say, like, okay, well, 527 00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:29,480 Speaker 2: who's upset with the way you look? Is it your husband? Oh, no, 528 00:28:29,540 --> 00:28:31,629 Speaker 2: he loves me. He thinks I'm hot. Okay, is it 529 00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:33,990 Speaker 2: your children? Like, they're like, man, I wish mom would know. 530 00:28:34,070 --> 00:28:37,729 Speaker 2: That's silly. Your parents? Like, is it, you know, people? Like, 531 00:28:37,790 --> 00:28:41,770 Speaker 2: who's upset with me? I'm upset. I don't look the 532 00:28:41,810 --> 00:28:44,209 Speaker 2: way I want to look. I am not meeting my 533 00:28:44,250 --> 00:28:46,820 Speaker 2: own standard. And we kind of go into this, like, okay, well, 534 00:28:46,860 --> 00:28:50,680 Speaker 2: whose truth is that? Is that God's truth? No. Is 535 00:28:50,700 --> 00:28:53,200 Speaker 2: that anyone else's? No. So whose truth are you living by? Okay. 536 00:28:53,770 --> 00:28:56,570 Speaker 2: I'm living by my truth. Well, goodness, how are you 537 00:28:56,610 --> 00:28:59,270 Speaker 2: different than anyone else in culture? I'm not supposed to 538 00:28:59,290 --> 00:29:01,810 Speaker 2: live by my truth. I'm supposed to live by God's truth. 539 00:29:02,250 --> 00:29:04,840 Speaker 2: And so it's all, like you said, it's so subtle, right? 540 00:29:04,860 --> 00:29:07,580 Speaker 2: Because like you said, there's nothing wrong with dressing up 541 00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:10,880 Speaker 2: or wanting to lose some weight or wanting to like 542 00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:14,200 Speaker 2: work out harder, get your house organized, or I don't know, 543 00:29:14,220 --> 00:29:16,380 Speaker 2: get your kids on the right path. None of those 544 00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:18,760 Speaker 2: are bad things, but that's what's so hard about idols. 545 00:29:19,380 --> 00:29:23,090 Speaker 2: Idols take even good things and turn them into ultimate things. 546 00:29:23,430 --> 00:29:25,730 Speaker 2: And it's just in the culture we live in with 547 00:29:25,910 --> 00:29:30,780 Speaker 2: so much noise and so much influence and so much pressure, 548 00:29:31,260 --> 00:29:33,420 Speaker 2: it's just really hard to step out of that rat 549 00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:35,610 Speaker 2: race and be like, wait a second, no, I'm supposed 550 00:29:35,630 --> 00:29:38,300 Speaker 2: to do things different. I'm actually supposed to invite God's truth, 551 00:29:38,340 --> 00:29:40,640 Speaker 2: not my truth. I'm actually supposed to live in a 552 00:29:40,740 --> 00:29:46,880 Speaker 2: different way, not stuck in comparison, not stuck in envy, jealousy, pride, covetousness. 553 00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:49,400 Speaker 2: I'm actually supposed to live by God's grace and believe 554 00:29:49,460 --> 00:29:52,020 Speaker 2: the truth that, man, He made me on purpose for 555 00:29:52,060 --> 00:29:56,450 Speaker 2: His good purpose. His book is sufficient. His way is sufficient. 556 00:29:56,610 --> 00:29:59,090 Speaker 2: His path is the path that will lead me to 557 00:29:59,130 --> 00:30:01,290 Speaker 2: the joy, peace, and rest and love that I really, 558 00:30:01,350 --> 00:30:04,910 Speaker 2: really crave. And I don't have to live as if 559 00:30:04,970 --> 00:30:06,770 Speaker 2: it's all on me. He has enough. 560 00:30:07,370 --> 00:30:09,530 Speaker 1: And that sounds like the path to freedom to me. 561 00:30:10,650 --> 00:30:13,780 Speaker 1: Truly the path to freedom and peace and joy that 562 00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:17,420 Speaker 1: you've been talking about. So Heather, as we're winding up here, 563 00:30:17,620 --> 00:30:22,120 Speaker 1: tell our listening friends how they can connect with you, 564 00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:25,790 Speaker 1: how they can find more about your ministry, and maybe 565 00:30:25,830 --> 00:30:27,330 Speaker 1: get a copy of this book. 566 00:30:27,730 --> 00:30:29,810 Speaker 2: The book and all of my books are available everywhere. 567 00:30:29,830 --> 00:30:34,440 Speaker 2: Books are sold on Amazon. My last name is Creekmore, C-R-E-E-K-M-O-R-E. 568 00:30:34,540 --> 00:30:37,500 Speaker 2: So you can look me up at heathercreekmore.com. If you're 569 00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:42,000 Speaker 2: looking for help specifically around body image issues, improvebodyimage.com is 570 00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:45,600 Speaker 2: the site I coach from. I've got free plans on YouVersion. 571 00:30:45,620 --> 00:30:47,880 Speaker 2: I've got a podcast called Compared to Who. But if 572 00:30:47,900 --> 00:30:49,920 Speaker 2: you put my name into the internet, you'll find all 573 00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:51,910 Speaker 2: my stuff. Perfect, perfect. 574 00:30:52,090 --> 00:30:54,990 Speaker 1: Well, Heather, thank you so much for sharing your wisdom 575 00:30:55,210 --> 00:30:58,830 Speaker 1: with us. And wow, you've given us so much to process, 576 00:30:58,870 --> 00:31:02,050 Speaker 1: so much to think about. And I really hope that 577 00:31:02,310 --> 00:31:04,430 Speaker 1: all of us that have listened to your wisdom will 578 00:31:04,490 --> 00:31:07,780 Speaker 1: process some of these things that you have said and 579 00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:12,600 Speaker 1: that we'll start living more free. And I love particularly, 580 00:31:12,620 --> 00:31:16,020 Speaker 1: are we living by the book of me or by 581 00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:17,840 Speaker 1: God's book? I guess you could say the book of he. 582 00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:19,180 Speaker 2: All right. 583 00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:22,240 Speaker 1: So thank you so much for sharing. It has been 584 00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:23,920 Speaker 1: just such a delight to have you on the show. 585 00:31:24,270 --> 00:31:29,070 Speaker 2: Thanks. It's been my pleasure. Well, wasn't that a great episode? Boy, 586 00:31:29,150 --> 00:31:31,370 Speaker 2: we all deal with comparison, don't we? 587 00:31:31,850 --> 00:31:35,590 Speaker 1: And hopefully after today's conversation, we have a better handle 588 00:31:36,110 --> 00:31:40,970 Speaker 1: on how to stop comparison from robbing us of enjoying 589 00:31:41,090 --> 00:31:44,130 Speaker 1: our own life. Just as a reminder, I would love 590 00:31:44,170 --> 00:31:46,209 Speaker 1: to connect with you on social media. You'll find me 591 00:31:46,310 --> 00:31:49,230 Speaker 1: at Donna A. Jones on Instagram, Donna Jones Speaker and 592 00:31:49,330 --> 00:31:53,709 Speaker 1: Author on Facebook, or go to my website, donnajones.org. You 593 00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:54,250 Speaker 1: can sign up. 594 00:31:54,210 --> 00:31:55,600 Speaker 2: For my free newsletter. 595 00:31:55,860 --> 00:31:59,280 Speaker 1: I have lots of free resources over there, as well 596 00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:01,920 Speaker 1: as my speaking schedule. And I would love to connect 597 00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:04,760 Speaker 1: with you at one of my events. And as always, 598 00:32:04,820 --> 00:32:07,280 Speaker 1: my friend, I can't wait to see you next time 599 00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:09,340 Speaker 1: for That's Just What I Needed.