1 00:00:20,196 --> 00:00:23,236 Speaker 1: Hi friend, I'm so glad you're here today. Let's learn 2 00:00:23,276 --> 00:00:26,916 Speaker 1: how to raise our kids to love God, respect authority, 3 00:00:27,196 --> 00:00:31,036 Speaker 1: and do what's right. Let's scroll less and live more. 4 00:00:31,356 --> 00:00:34,716 Speaker 1: I'm Arlene Pelicane and this is the Happy Home. 5 00:00:37,956 --> 00:00:38,316 Speaker 2: Friends. 6 00:00:38,356 --> 00:00:42,436 Speaker 1: I am very excited to have a wonderful guest, doctor 7 00:00:42,516 --> 00:00:45,636 Speaker 1: Jonathan Eckert. He is the author of a new book 8 00:00:45,635 --> 00:00:49,716 Speaker 1: called The Happiness Crisis, How Adversity can build a resilient 9 00:00:49,796 --> 00:00:53,676 Speaker 1: and joyful next generation. And John has been a middle 10 00:00:53,715 --> 00:00:56,715 Speaker 1: school teacher, he's been a basketball coach, he served in 11 00:00:56,715 --> 00:01:00,596 Speaker 1: the Department of Education under both the Bush and Obama administrations. 12 00:01:00,956 --> 00:01:03,836 Speaker 1: And he is now the Copple Professor of Educational Leadership 13 00:01:03,836 --> 00:01:06,556 Speaker 1: at Baylor University. That's just like a little nutshell, But 14 00:01:06,596 --> 00:01:08,676 Speaker 1: how cool is that? John, thanks so much for being 15 00:01:08,676 --> 00:01:09,675 Speaker 1: on the podcast today. 16 00:01:09,916 --> 00:01:11,756 Speaker 3: Oh, thank you for having me. It's a blessing to 17 00:01:11,796 --> 00:01:12,155 Speaker 3: be here. 18 00:01:12,956 --> 00:01:15,756 Speaker 1: So I do have a college. My youngest is a 19 00:01:15,836 --> 00:01:19,155 Speaker 1: high school senior, right, so we feel like it there 20 00:01:19,196 --> 00:01:20,876 Speaker 1: you are at Baylor. I think she will be applying 21 00:01:20,916 --> 00:01:23,916 Speaker 1: to Baylor among other things. Okay, this is all very exciting, 22 00:01:24,155 --> 00:01:26,556 Speaker 1: all right, So you may feel like, okay, you're going 23 00:01:26,636 --> 00:01:28,676 Speaker 1: to kind of help us reframe happiness. 24 00:01:28,795 --> 00:01:30,435 Speaker 2: But I want my listeners just. 25 00:01:30,356 --> 00:01:33,636 Speaker 1: To breathe a sigh of relief and know that when 26 00:01:33,715 --> 00:01:36,676 Speaker 1: we talk about having a happy home, I hope you 27 00:01:36,756 --> 00:01:38,715 Speaker 1: know by now by listening to podcasts that I'm not 28 00:01:38,875 --> 00:01:41,596 Speaker 1: talking about a child centered home where the kid gets 29 00:01:41,596 --> 00:01:43,955 Speaker 1: to do anything they want, where we as parents do 30 00:01:44,075 --> 00:01:44,715 Speaker 1: everything for. 31 00:01:44,715 --> 00:01:46,156 Speaker 2: Our children to make them happy. 32 00:01:46,596 --> 00:01:48,356 Speaker 1: You who have been listening, No, we did not give 33 00:01:48,356 --> 00:01:51,236 Speaker 1: a phone, social media, or video games to our children 34 00:01:51,476 --> 00:01:54,236 Speaker 1: until they were at least a senior in high school. 35 00:01:54,556 --> 00:01:56,516 Speaker 1: So so I just want to put that out there 36 00:01:56,516 --> 00:01:59,035 Speaker 1: so we can be at ease about this. But you 37 00:01:59,556 --> 00:02:01,516 Speaker 1: in this book, you are really trying to help us 38 00:02:01,556 --> 00:02:06,196 Speaker 1: ask this question, why are we so focused on our 39 00:02:06,276 --> 00:02:09,276 Speaker 1: children's happiness? Can you help us explain that, you know, 40 00:02:09,356 --> 00:02:10,556 Speaker 1: kind of tease that out for us. 41 00:02:10,956 --> 00:02:11,196 Speaker 3: Yeah. 42 00:02:11,196 --> 00:02:13,836 Speaker 4: Well, we were in the two hundred and fiftieth anniversary 43 00:02:13,836 --> 00:02:17,156 Speaker 4: of the Most Amazing Country Ever and Jefferson wrote it 44 00:02:17,196 --> 00:02:19,036 Speaker 4: in that the pursuit of happiness is. 45 00:02:19,116 --> 00:02:20,996 Speaker 3: Something that we are all interested in. 46 00:02:21,196 --> 00:02:27,116 Speaker 4: The problem is that you demonic happiness that Aristotle talked 47 00:02:27,115 --> 00:02:29,436 Speaker 4: about in this idea of flourishing that we do this 48 00:02:29,476 --> 00:02:33,036 Speaker 4: in community is all about others and so what your 49 00:02:33,076 --> 00:02:37,196 Speaker 4: podcast audience knows, what you know is happiness when it 50 00:02:37,236 --> 00:02:41,395 Speaker 4: is self focused isn't really what we want because that 51 00:02:41,476 --> 00:02:46,596 Speaker 4: kind of happiness is fleeting because it's circumstantial, and. 52 00:02:46,516 --> 00:02:48,316 Speaker 3: It will wither in struggle. 53 00:02:48,756 --> 00:02:51,196 Speaker 4: So if a kid thinks if I'm struggling or I'm 54 00:02:51,236 --> 00:02:54,596 Speaker 4: facing some adversity and I can't be well or can't 55 00:02:54,675 --> 00:02:58,755 Speaker 4: be happy, that's a real problem. So when we get 56 00:02:58,796 --> 00:03:02,596 Speaker 4: too focused on ourselves, then we miss happiness. And in fact, 57 00:03:02,596 --> 00:03:05,836 Speaker 4: I think kids are somewhat miserable right now chasing happiness 58 00:03:05,876 --> 00:03:12,076 Speaker 4: because their happiness is mediated through the phone and comparison 59 00:03:12,276 --> 00:03:15,756 Speaker 4: and things that aren't real, things that have been curated 60 00:03:15,835 --> 00:03:18,916 Speaker 4: and filtered. And so when you're constantly trying to measure 61 00:03:19,036 --> 00:03:21,316 Speaker 4: or am I happy? Or is my life is happy 62 00:03:21,395 --> 00:03:24,636 Speaker 4: as so and so's, you are setting yourself up at 63 00:03:24,636 --> 00:03:26,996 Speaker 4: The research shows this every time you ask that question, 64 00:03:27,395 --> 00:03:30,356 Speaker 4: you're never at your ideal level of happiness. And so 65 00:03:30,555 --> 00:03:34,196 Speaker 4: just asking am I happy? We aren't going to find 66 00:03:34,236 --> 00:03:36,836 Speaker 4: it that way. In fact, we need to get focused 67 00:03:36,876 --> 00:03:39,556 Speaker 4: on others. That doesn't mean we don't care for ourselves 68 00:03:39,636 --> 00:03:41,716 Speaker 4: and we don't attend to our own needs and we 69 00:03:41,756 --> 00:03:45,516 Speaker 4: don't help kids identify where they have needs and struggles. 70 00:03:45,796 --> 00:03:47,916 Speaker 4: But it's this idea that we need to invite them 71 00:03:47,956 --> 00:03:51,796 Speaker 4: into joy because joy is something deeper, and joy comes 72 00:03:51,836 --> 00:03:54,356 Speaker 4: through struggle, and it comes through adversity. 73 00:03:54,436 --> 00:03:55,596 Speaker 3: And if in. 74 00:03:55,596 --> 00:03:58,636 Speaker 4: Fact, the depth of the struggle often determines the peak 75 00:03:58,636 --> 00:04:01,996 Speaker 4: of the joy. If we do not let our kids 76 00:04:02,036 --> 00:04:04,836 Speaker 4: face adversity, now not trauma, we don't want them to 77 00:04:04,876 --> 00:04:07,716 Speaker 4: experience trauma, but adversity, then we rob them of the 78 00:04:07,836 --> 00:04:11,196 Speaker 4: chance to experience that deeper joy that is there for 79 00:04:11,316 --> 00:04:11,796 Speaker 4: us to have. 80 00:04:12,356 --> 00:04:14,436 Speaker 1: Soon in the conversation, I'm going to give you little 81 00:04:14,436 --> 00:04:17,596 Speaker 1: things like if your kid says this about this problem, 82 00:04:17,676 --> 00:04:18,356 Speaker 1: you know, what do you say? 83 00:04:18,356 --> 00:04:20,436 Speaker 2: So we're going to get there in a second, But. 84 00:04:20,676 --> 00:04:25,755 Speaker 1: Talk about the struggle, like why is this adversity so important? 85 00:04:25,916 --> 00:04:27,276 Speaker 2: Why is this necessary? 86 00:04:27,836 --> 00:04:31,836 Speaker 1: And then give us, you know, the snowplow parrot that 87 00:04:31,836 --> 00:04:34,636 Speaker 1: we're just making the way straight? Why is that a disservice? 88 00:04:35,076 --> 00:04:35,316 Speaker 3: Yeah? 89 00:04:35,315 --> 00:04:38,156 Speaker 4: Well, I always tell people, if you don't think that 90 00:04:38,315 --> 00:04:41,075 Speaker 4: joy and struggle are connected, then you haven't read the Bible, 91 00:04:41,195 --> 00:04:43,876 Speaker 4: because almost every time joy is mentioned, it's connected to 92 00:04:44,076 --> 00:04:47,836 Speaker 4: adversity and struggle. And you also need to think about 93 00:04:47,836 --> 00:04:50,396 Speaker 4: the most joyful people you know in your lives, especially 94 00:04:50,476 --> 00:04:51,116 Speaker 4: older people. 95 00:04:51,676 --> 00:04:53,476 Speaker 3: The most joyful older people. 96 00:04:53,236 --> 00:04:56,596 Speaker 4: I know have had very hard lives, and so it 97 00:04:56,636 --> 00:05:00,436 Speaker 4: can't be true that you cannot be joyful if you 98 00:05:00,716 --> 00:05:04,156 Speaker 4: have had struggle. It does sometimes feel like it's hard 99 00:05:04,156 --> 00:05:08,596 Speaker 4: to be happy in this kind of fleeting surface level happiness, 100 00:05:08,636 --> 00:05:12,276 Speaker 4: which I think many kids think is the definition of happiness. 101 00:05:12,356 --> 00:05:14,996 Speaker 4: And so if as parents we don't let our ten 102 00:05:15,076 --> 00:05:18,676 Speaker 4: year olds deal with adversity on the playground or figure 103 00:05:18,676 --> 00:05:20,676 Speaker 4: out the rules to their own games, which it sounds 104 00:05:20,755 --> 00:05:23,076 Speaker 4: like your audience has unlock, like, hey, we're not going 105 00:05:23,116 --> 00:05:24,636 Speaker 4: to do this through phones. We're going to get out, 106 00:05:24,636 --> 00:05:26,316 Speaker 4: We're going to figure the things out. If you don't 107 00:05:26,356 --> 00:05:28,556 Speaker 4: get to deal with that conflict that's at an appropriate 108 00:05:28,596 --> 00:05:31,796 Speaker 4: ten year old level, you don't develop the muscles around 109 00:05:31,836 --> 00:05:34,236 Speaker 4: the backbone they allow you to carry harder things, because 110 00:05:34,276 --> 00:05:36,156 Speaker 4: it's not that we give our kids a backbone. They 111 00:05:36,156 --> 00:05:38,596 Speaker 4: already have a backbone. What you have to build up 112 00:05:38,636 --> 00:05:41,275 Speaker 4: around it are the muscles, and so that means you 113 00:05:41,436 --> 00:05:45,676 Speaker 4: have to have opportunities to struggle and developmentally appropriate ways. 114 00:05:45,755 --> 00:05:50,116 Speaker 4: So arguing over kickball rules is a really important skill 115 00:05:50,156 --> 00:05:53,395 Speaker 4: set for being a better human being, for becoming more 116 00:05:53,396 --> 00:05:55,876 Speaker 4: of who you're created to be. So when we used 117 00:05:55,916 --> 00:05:58,876 Speaker 4: to have helicopter parents that just hovered, we now have 118 00:05:58,996 --> 00:06:02,596 Speaker 4: snowplow or I call them lawnmower parents. They just mow 119 00:06:02,716 --> 00:06:05,836 Speaker 4: everything down to make sure their kid doesn't experience adversity. 120 00:06:06,476 --> 00:06:10,396 Speaker 4: Then kids lose the opportunity to build those muscles, and 121 00:06:10,676 --> 00:06:12,916 Speaker 4: that's going to be a real problem when they get 122 00:06:12,956 --> 00:06:17,315 Speaker 4: out into the real world and they haven't faced significant adversity, 123 00:06:17,676 --> 00:06:20,956 Speaker 4: because then suddenly they're trying to carry those things without 124 00:06:21,116 --> 00:06:24,756 Speaker 4: muscles that have been developed through those developmentally appropriate ways 125 00:06:25,276 --> 00:06:27,596 Speaker 4: that we should be letting our kids do. The last 126 00:06:27,636 --> 00:06:31,036 Speaker 4: caveat'll say is it's really easy for us to say 127 00:06:31,076 --> 00:06:34,596 Speaker 4: that about other people's kids. It's easy for teachers and 128 00:06:34,676 --> 00:06:37,876 Speaker 4: kochious to say that about other people's kids. It's really 129 00:06:37,956 --> 00:06:41,716 Speaker 4: hard to watch our kids struggle when we could step 130 00:06:41,716 --> 00:06:44,876 Speaker 4: in and end it right away by fixing. 131 00:06:44,476 --> 00:06:46,716 Speaker 3: The problem for them. So I know how hard that 132 00:06:46,836 --> 00:06:47,156 Speaker 3: is to do. 133 00:06:47,195 --> 00:06:50,116 Speaker 4: I have plenty of examples in my own life where 134 00:06:50,156 --> 00:06:52,276 Speaker 4: it is difficult to do that as a parent because 135 00:06:52,276 --> 00:06:55,596 Speaker 4: I have three kids similar ages to yours. They're eighteen, twenty, 136 00:06:55,676 --> 00:06:58,515 Speaker 4: and twenty three, and so there's a lot that goes 137 00:06:58,556 --> 00:07:01,955 Speaker 4: into launching, and what that looks like is different for 138 00:07:01,996 --> 00:07:02,516 Speaker 4: each kid. 139 00:07:03,076 --> 00:07:06,716 Speaker 1: Yeah, our oldest who is the college graduate, Ethan, when 140 00:07:06,755 --> 00:07:11,076 Speaker 1: he was in kindergarten, he was riding our stationary spin 141 00:07:11,156 --> 00:07:14,316 Speaker 1: bike and he was revving it up really fast, and 142 00:07:14,356 --> 00:07:16,836 Speaker 1: then he pulled his leg out and when he did that, 143 00:07:17,116 --> 00:07:19,596 Speaker 1: the pedal came back and hit it, and so he 144 00:07:19,676 --> 00:07:22,076 Speaker 1: broke his leg. So the people would be like, how 145 00:07:22,076 --> 00:07:23,076 Speaker 1: would you break your leg. 146 00:07:22,996 --> 00:07:23,956 Speaker 2: Like on a spin bike? 147 00:07:24,476 --> 00:07:26,396 Speaker 1: So he had to go to school, you know, with 148 00:07:26,476 --> 00:07:29,396 Speaker 1: a cast and all these things and this thing that 149 00:07:29,476 --> 00:07:31,676 Speaker 1: I thought, Wow, this is going to be so hard 150 00:07:31,676 --> 00:07:36,396 Speaker 1: for him, It turned out to be the best experience 151 00:07:37,076 --> 00:07:40,836 Speaker 1: of his little life that here he was that he 152 00:07:40,956 --> 00:07:43,276 Speaker 1: had to ask I had to go to school once 153 00:07:43,316 --> 00:07:45,236 Speaker 1: a day to help him go to the bathroom, because 154 00:07:45,276 --> 00:07:47,636 Speaker 1: like an aid couldn't help him to go to the bathroom. 155 00:07:47,676 --> 00:07:50,476 Speaker 1: So I'd come in and what I'd observe is all 156 00:07:50,556 --> 00:07:53,756 Speaker 1: these little kids would help him. They would like pick 157 00:07:53,836 --> 00:07:56,276 Speaker 1: up his book, or they would like get recess. They 158 00:07:56,316 --> 00:07:58,716 Speaker 1: pretended they were also on crutches, and they'd do these 159 00:07:58,756 --> 00:08:01,636 Speaker 1: pretend races and they'd open the door for him, And 160 00:08:01,676 --> 00:08:05,356 Speaker 1: I thought, how would you even know that these kids 161 00:08:05,396 --> 00:08:07,756 Speaker 1: were capable of such care. And then for Ethan when 162 00:08:07,756 --> 00:08:10,236 Speaker 1: he had to rehabilitate, and you think, oh, the cast 163 00:08:10,276 --> 00:08:10,956 Speaker 1: is off, now it's going. 164 00:08:10,916 --> 00:08:11,316 Speaker 2: To be easy. 165 00:08:11,356 --> 00:08:13,636 Speaker 1: And the kid looked like like a wounded deer, like 166 00:08:13,676 --> 00:08:15,756 Speaker 1: he couldn't even walk, and so we had to go 167 00:08:15,796 --> 00:08:18,756 Speaker 1: through physical therapy. And I really we really thought, Wow, 168 00:08:18,796 --> 00:08:23,076 Speaker 1: that difficulty you experienced when you were five, I think 169 00:08:23,116 --> 00:08:25,516 Speaker 1: really helped him when he was fifteen when he was twenty, 170 00:08:25,716 --> 00:08:28,076 Speaker 1: like to have discipline and self control. 171 00:08:28,556 --> 00:08:31,236 Speaker 3: No, so well said, and so hard to watch. 172 00:08:31,276 --> 00:08:34,436 Speaker 4: You don't want them older, or any kid, But in 173 00:08:34,476 --> 00:08:38,756 Speaker 4: that comes this deeper sense of purpose, meaning and ability 174 00:08:38,796 --> 00:08:40,076 Speaker 4: to push through hard things. 175 00:08:40,196 --> 00:08:40,916 Speaker 2: Yeah. 176 00:08:41,236 --> 00:08:43,756 Speaker 1: Okay, so let's do a little scenarios. So if our 177 00:08:43,796 --> 00:08:47,316 Speaker 1: elementary school kid comes home, Dad, I don't want to 178 00:08:47,316 --> 00:08:49,876 Speaker 1: go to school tomorrow because the kids are so mean 179 00:08:49,916 --> 00:08:52,276 Speaker 1: to me. And when I told the teacher, the teacher 180 00:08:52,276 --> 00:08:53,596 Speaker 1: did nothing about it. 181 00:08:53,916 --> 00:08:56,156 Speaker 3: Yeah, so you want me to take on the part 182 00:08:56,196 --> 00:08:56,676 Speaker 3: of yeah. 183 00:08:56,476 --> 00:08:58,196 Speaker 2: You mean the parent, Yeah, yeah, what do you say 184 00:08:58,196 --> 00:08:58,636 Speaker 2: to this kid? 185 00:08:59,116 --> 00:09:01,596 Speaker 4: So tell me more about that, what happened? And can 186 00:09:01,636 --> 00:09:03,236 Speaker 4: you tell you speak a little bit more about how 187 00:09:03,276 --> 00:09:04,196 Speaker 4: you felt in that? 188 00:09:04,636 --> 00:09:05,036 Speaker 3: All right? 189 00:09:05,156 --> 00:09:06,396 Speaker 1: I was so embarrassed. 190 00:09:06,836 --> 00:09:09,396 Speaker 3: There you go, you were so embarrassed. Why were you embarrassed? 191 00:09:09,876 --> 00:09:10,876 Speaker 1: They were all looking at me? 192 00:09:11,516 --> 00:09:15,196 Speaker 4: Yes, and so why do you think they were looking 193 00:09:15,236 --> 00:09:17,356 Speaker 4: at you? And did you think they did this in 194 00:09:17,396 --> 00:09:20,436 Speaker 4: a way that was just picking on you? Or is 195 00:09:20,436 --> 00:09:22,436 Speaker 4: this something that they do to other kids as well? 196 00:09:23,036 --> 00:09:23,356 Speaker 2: Well? 197 00:09:23,476 --> 00:09:26,516 Speaker 1: I guess I guess they do it to other people too. 198 00:09:26,956 --> 00:09:29,276 Speaker 3: How can you look out for those kids tomorrow to 199 00:09:29,316 --> 00:09:31,116 Speaker 3: make sure that those kids aren't doing the same thing 200 00:09:31,156 --> 00:09:33,516 Speaker 3: to them or those kids don't feel the way you do. 201 00:09:34,156 --> 00:09:34,876 Speaker 2: Oh that's good. 202 00:09:34,916 --> 00:09:35,316 Speaker 3: I like that. 203 00:09:35,636 --> 00:09:37,916 Speaker 2: I don't know how to do that, dad, I'm scared. 204 00:09:38,276 --> 00:09:38,556 Speaker 3: Yeah. 205 00:09:38,596 --> 00:09:41,796 Speaker 4: Well, who do you know that they may have treated poorly, 206 00:09:41,876 --> 00:09:43,876 Speaker 4: they may not have treated well, do you have anybody 207 00:09:43,876 --> 00:09:44,276 Speaker 4: in mind? 208 00:09:44,276 --> 00:09:45,756 Speaker 3: Have you seen them do that to anybody? 209 00:09:46,356 --> 00:09:48,476 Speaker 1: Well, there's this like little girl, but I don't like her. 210 00:09:49,116 --> 00:09:52,476 Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, and you know God loves girl little girls too. 211 00:09:53,196 --> 00:09:55,276 Speaker 4: So we need to be kind and it's our job 212 00:09:55,356 --> 00:09:57,836 Speaker 4: to look out for people, you know, from what the 213 00:09:57,836 --> 00:10:00,996 Speaker 4: Bible teaches. We need to have particular regard for those 214 00:10:01,036 --> 00:10:03,676 Speaker 4: people that don't have power. And you felt like you 215 00:10:03,716 --> 00:10:06,956 Speaker 4: didn't and that doesn't feel good, right, Yeah, And you 216 00:10:06,996 --> 00:10:09,196 Speaker 4: want to make sure, you're never on the side of 217 00:10:09,236 --> 00:10:11,796 Speaker 4: doing that. But by you not going to school tomorrow, 218 00:10:11,876 --> 00:10:14,596 Speaker 4: what would that tell those kids who are picking on you. 219 00:10:15,396 --> 00:10:17,396 Speaker 2: I guess that they won, Yeah. 220 00:10:17,156 --> 00:10:18,356 Speaker 3: And we don't want that, right. 221 00:10:19,316 --> 00:10:21,236 Speaker 4: And the other thing you have to remember is Jesus 222 00:10:21,236 --> 00:10:24,436 Speaker 4: loves those kids too, So while it's hard to love 223 00:10:24,476 --> 00:10:27,996 Speaker 4: them when they're treating you that way, that's not really 224 00:10:27,996 --> 00:10:30,916 Speaker 4: a choice. And that's what we're called to. And remember, 225 00:10:30,996 --> 00:10:34,796 Speaker 4: we do things all the time that make it so 226 00:10:34,916 --> 00:10:36,796 Speaker 4: other people don't see Christ in us. 227 00:10:36,956 --> 00:10:37,996 Speaker 3: You remember when you. 228 00:10:38,116 --> 00:10:40,196 Speaker 4: Acted, and you could give in some examples of where 229 00:10:40,196 --> 00:10:42,476 Speaker 4: maybe you didn't treat somebody as well, and then it 230 00:10:42,556 --> 00:10:46,076 Speaker 4: just reframes it is now you're going there because especially 231 00:10:46,076 --> 00:10:49,156 Speaker 4: when kids hit age ten and up, they're really seeking 232 00:10:49,196 --> 00:10:52,436 Speaker 4: status because of the increased testosterone that's released in both 233 00:10:52,476 --> 00:10:55,436 Speaker 4: boys and girls. They have this status seeking thing and 234 00:10:55,436 --> 00:10:57,756 Speaker 4: we have to do things that help them achieve status. 235 00:10:57,836 --> 00:10:59,756 Speaker 3: So by looking out for other kids. 236 00:11:00,276 --> 00:11:02,356 Speaker 4: Sticking up for other kids, it's like there's a status 237 00:11:02,356 --> 00:11:04,996 Speaker 4: seeking to that that makes it so it's like, hey, 238 00:11:05,036 --> 00:11:06,556 Speaker 4: I know you can do this, And. 239 00:11:06,556 --> 00:11:09,036 Speaker 3: I didn't dwell very long at all on what happened. 240 00:11:09,076 --> 00:11:10,676 Speaker 4: I wanted to hear more because I'm like, hey, I 241 00:11:10,716 --> 00:11:13,236 Speaker 4: give you more details, and certainly this was a real conversation. 242 00:11:13,316 --> 00:11:15,956 Speaker 4: There'd be some details that a kid could really spiral lot, 243 00:11:16,156 --> 00:11:18,756 Speaker 4: but then it's helping them reframe, like, hey, what do 244 00:11:18,756 --> 00:11:20,916 Speaker 4: you want to be known for? How do you want 245 00:11:20,956 --> 00:11:22,756 Speaker 4: to how do you want to make sure other kids 246 00:11:22,756 --> 00:11:25,676 Speaker 4: are okay? Because there's something that gets you focused not 247 00:11:25,756 --> 00:11:27,956 Speaker 4: on yourself but on other kids where it's like, hey, 248 00:11:28,356 --> 00:11:30,356 Speaker 4: I can do this in a way that helps other people, and. 249 00:11:30,316 --> 00:11:31,556 Speaker 3: Then that build status. 250 00:11:31,636 --> 00:11:33,676 Speaker 4: Now, if they're only six or seven, that's not going 251 00:11:33,716 --> 00:11:36,156 Speaker 4: to have as much impact as a kid who's like 252 00:11:36,636 --> 00:11:40,196 Speaker 4: ten or eleven, but that's a way to possibly reframe there. 253 00:11:40,516 --> 00:11:41,876 Speaker 2: Okay, that was amazing. 254 00:11:41,916 --> 00:11:44,836 Speaker 1: So people you can when this happens, are something similar, 255 00:11:44,956 --> 00:11:47,756 Speaker 1: come back to this point. Remember save this episode and 256 00:11:47,996 --> 00:11:50,556 Speaker 1: re listen to that, because think of what you'd miss 257 00:11:50,596 --> 00:11:52,956 Speaker 1: if you said, oh, wow, that's really tough. 258 00:11:52,996 --> 00:11:54,556 Speaker 2: Yeah you can stay home from school tomorrow. 259 00:11:54,996 --> 00:11:57,996 Speaker 4: Yeah, And that's the worst thing you can do. Because again, 260 00:11:58,116 --> 00:12:03,476 Speaker 4: all therapy, almost all therapy other than gender reassignment therapy, 261 00:12:03,916 --> 00:12:06,956 Speaker 4: it's pushing you to exposure. If you struggle with something, 262 00:12:07,036 --> 00:12:09,036 Speaker 4: how do you get exposed to it? 263 00:12:09,036 --> 00:12:09,916 Speaker 3: In a way that you can. 264 00:12:09,796 --> 00:12:12,996 Speaker 4: Build up an ability to deal with it. So you 265 00:12:13,036 --> 00:12:14,956 Speaker 4: have a panic attack on a test. I write about 266 00:12:14,996 --> 00:12:17,276 Speaker 4: this about a college student, yeah, who couldn't get past 267 00:12:17,276 --> 00:12:19,236 Speaker 4: the fact that she had a panic attack on the test. 268 00:12:19,636 --> 00:12:22,556 Speaker 4: Even though she finished the test and passed all, she 269 00:12:22,796 --> 00:12:25,036 Speaker 4: was paralyzed. She didn't want to take another test that 270 00:12:25,076 --> 00:12:26,916 Speaker 4: the professor and her therapist had to help her. 271 00:12:26,956 --> 00:12:28,476 Speaker 3: See, No, you had a. 272 00:12:28,396 --> 00:12:32,636 Speaker 4: Panic attack and you successfully completed the test. She was 273 00:12:32,676 --> 00:12:35,556 Speaker 4: identifying herself as a kid who has a panic attack, 274 00:12:35,756 --> 00:12:39,036 Speaker 4: and that's the wrong thing. Like you persevered through the 275 00:12:39,076 --> 00:12:42,516 Speaker 4: panic attack, you will persevere through those kids who are 276 00:12:42,556 --> 00:12:46,876 Speaker 4: bullying you, mistreating you, and just showing up is what matters. 277 00:12:47,076 --> 00:12:49,356 Speaker 4: You also don't want to have to intervene at some point. 278 00:12:49,396 --> 00:12:51,196 Speaker 4: As parents, sometimes we have to go talk to an 279 00:12:51,236 --> 00:12:53,636 Speaker 4: administrator or a teacher and see what's going on. There 280 00:12:53,636 --> 00:12:55,956 Speaker 4: are times that we need to advocate for our kids. Yeah, 281 00:12:56,076 --> 00:12:59,236 Speaker 4: but depending on what's been done, and if it's just 282 00:12:59,276 --> 00:13:02,236 Speaker 4: the first time and it's something that the kid can manage, 283 00:13:02,396 --> 00:13:06,876 Speaker 4: my advice is always let the kid manage as much 284 00:13:06,876 --> 00:13:09,436 Speaker 4: as he or she can, because they're going to be 285 00:13:09,476 --> 00:13:12,196 Speaker 4: able to do it that much better. As life gets harder, 286 00:13:12,276 --> 00:13:15,196 Speaker 4: because life does get harder and they need the skills 287 00:13:15,236 --> 00:13:15,996 Speaker 4: to be able to do that. 288 00:13:16,236 --> 00:13:20,956 Speaker 1: Yeah, let's jump into a high school scenario and your 289 00:13:21,076 --> 00:13:21,996 Speaker 1: kid is caught. 290 00:13:22,036 --> 00:13:23,076 Speaker 2: You talk about this in the book. 291 00:13:23,116 --> 00:13:25,756 Speaker 1: Your kid is caught using AI to write an essay 292 00:13:26,396 --> 00:13:28,476 Speaker 1: and as a result, the teacher has said, you may 293 00:13:28,516 --> 00:13:32,676 Speaker 1: fail this class because you used AI for this major project. So, 294 00:13:32,876 --> 00:13:35,676 Speaker 1: as a parent, what are our choices and what do 295 00:13:35,716 --> 00:13:36,596 Speaker 1: you suggest? 296 00:13:36,796 --> 00:13:40,236 Speaker 4: Yes, this is a great time for conversation. So what 297 00:13:40,316 --> 00:13:42,036 Speaker 4: why did you feel like you needed to use AI 298 00:13:42,196 --> 00:13:44,396 Speaker 4: on this project? So I'd be the first question. And 299 00:13:44,436 --> 00:13:47,396 Speaker 4: what would if you want to play the high school student? 300 00:13:47,436 --> 00:13:49,396 Speaker 4: What would what would this high school student say to that. 301 00:13:51,316 --> 00:13:54,476 Speaker 1: I everyone else was doing that, everybody else uses it, 302 00:13:54,556 --> 00:13:55,956 Speaker 1: so I wanted to use it too. 303 00:13:56,436 --> 00:13:59,516 Speaker 4: Yeah, and I can see where that would be appealing. 304 00:14:00,076 --> 00:14:03,636 Speaker 4: But what did you learn from the assignment by having 305 00:14:03,876 --> 00:14:06,116 Speaker 4: AI do it? Well? 306 00:14:06,156 --> 00:14:08,436 Speaker 1: Nothing, But it was a dumb assignment. Like, I don't 307 00:14:08,516 --> 00:14:09,956 Speaker 1: how is that going to help me in my life? 308 00:14:09,996 --> 00:14:11,476 Speaker 1: I don't need to know that stuff. 309 00:14:11,676 --> 00:14:14,676 Speaker 4: Yeah, so could you make that excuse for a lot 310 00:14:14,716 --> 00:14:15,876 Speaker 4: of the things you do in school? 311 00:14:16,596 --> 00:14:18,116 Speaker 2: Yeah? Maybe I should. 312 00:14:17,836 --> 00:14:21,916 Speaker 3: Stop going to school, right, right? Right? And so what 313 00:14:21,996 --> 00:14:23,036 Speaker 3: is the purpose of school? 314 00:14:24,196 --> 00:14:27,876 Speaker 1: Well, I think it's I'm supposed to learn stuff to 315 00:14:28,116 --> 00:14:31,996 Speaker 1: prepare me for college, make friends, like to learn how 316 00:14:31,996 --> 00:14:33,676 Speaker 1: to read and do math and stuff. 317 00:14:33,876 --> 00:14:36,116 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a super generous response. I think a lot 318 00:14:36,116 --> 00:14:37,076 Speaker 3: of high school kids like. 319 00:14:37,076 --> 00:14:39,236 Speaker 2: There isn't a point, there is no purpose, And so 320 00:14:39,516 --> 00:14:40,196 Speaker 2: I think it's. 321 00:14:40,076 --> 00:14:42,276 Speaker 4: Then backing up into like, hey, no, what is the 322 00:14:42,316 --> 00:14:46,716 Speaker 4: purpose that you develop skills, ability, habits of mind that 323 00:14:46,876 --> 00:14:51,076 Speaker 4: help you think and act differently. Because I don't know 324 00:14:51,116 --> 00:14:54,116 Speaker 4: what this subject is, but let's say it's science. You 325 00:14:54,156 --> 00:14:57,236 Speaker 4: continue to do that through school, on assignments that you 326 00:14:57,276 --> 00:15:01,796 Speaker 4: deem to be dumb, that a teacher has believes is worthwhile. 327 00:15:02,556 --> 00:15:05,236 Speaker 4: We can have that conversation about whether or not it's worthwhile, 328 00:15:05,716 --> 00:15:10,236 Speaker 4: But your integrity matters way more than that. And by 329 00:15:10,316 --> 00:15:15,756 Speaker 4: you taking credit for something else's work, you have eroded 330 00:15:15,796 --> 00:15:18,876 Speaker 4: your soul just a little bit. You have made yourself 331 00:15:19,236 --> 00:15:21,716 Speaker 4: less human, less of who you were created to be. 332 00:15:22,236 --> 00:15:25,196 Speaker 4: That may not mean much to you right now, but 333 00:15:25,236 --> 00:15:26,196 Speaker 4: that means way. 334 00:15:26,036 --> 00:15:27,276 Speaker 3: More than that grade does. 335 00:15:27,836 --> 00:15:30,796 Speaker 4: And over time, if you continue to take those shortcuts, 336 00:15:31,236 --> 00:15:33,676 Speaker 4: so you get to medical school and you take shortcuts 337 00:15:33,716 --> 00:15:35,356 Speaker 4: on everything, do you really want to go to the 338 00:15:35,396 --> 00:15:40,196 Speaker 4: doctor who has shortcut everything on their path to that, 339 00:15:40,276 --> 00:15:43,636 Speaker 4: because you may get really savvy at using AI to 340 00:15:43,676 --> 00:15:47,316 Speaker 4: do work that isn't your own. And then what happens 341 00:15:47,316 --> 00:15:50,116 Speaker 4: when you've got the person on the table that you're 342 00:15:50,116 --> 00:15:52,276 Speaker 4: about to do surgery on and you have no idea 343 00:15:52,316 --> 00:15:55,356 Speaker 4: what to do when something doesn't go exactly right, where 344 00:15:55,396 --> 00:15:57,796 Speaker 4: you can't replicate the thing that you saw and you 345 00:15:57,876 --> 00:16:01,396 Speaker 4: can't ask AI for help like that is really scary 346 00:16:01,436 --> 00:16:03,316 Speaker 4: and that is not the purpose of education. 347 00:16:03,756 --> 00:16:05,396 Speaker 3: So I would tell them, I'm really. 348 00:16:05,156 --> 00:16:08,876 Speaker 4: Glad you failed that class, because this is the time 349 00:16:08,916 --> 00:16:11,276 Speaker 4: to learn that lesson. As hard as it is now, 350 00:16:11,836 --> 00:16:14,316 Speaker 4: it can be way worse. When you don't have integrity 351 00:16:14,316 --> 00:16:16,356 Speaker 4: in your job. You can end up in jail, you 352 00:16:16,356 --> 00:16:20,356 Speaker 4: can end up with somebody getting killed. And more, almost 353 00:16:20,436 --> 00:16:23,196 Speaker 4: more importantly than what the consequence is, it's what it 354 00:16:23,236 --> 00:16:26,676 Speaker 4: does to your soul, and that's separating you from what 355 00:16:26,716 --> 00:16:28,756 Speaker 4: the Lord wants for you. And so as Christians, again, 356 00:16:28,836 --> 00:16:30,876 Speaker 4: this is a different conversation if the kid a Christian 357 00:16:31,236 --> 00:16:32,916 Speaker 4: and in a Christian family than if they're not. 358 00:16:33,476 --> 00:16:34,836 Speaker 3: But I think you can go to. 359 00:16:34,836 --> 00:16:37,116 Speaker 4: That soul level if there're it, and they may not 360 00:16:37,276 --> 00:16:40,236 Speaker 4: fully understand it at the time, but those kinds of 361 00:16:40,276 --> 00:16:42,636 Speaker 4: things I think come back in their heads later when 362 00:16:42,676 --> 00:16:44,836 Speaker 4: they get hit with similar situations in the future. 363 00:16:45,276 --> 00:16:46,316 Speaker 2: Wow, it's so good. 364 00:16:46,636 --> 00:16:49,356 Speaker 1: Let's talk about purpose. It's connected because a lot of 365 00:16:49,356 --> 00:16:51,676 Speaker 1: these high schoolers are thing what's the point, Like, what's 366 00:16:51,716 --> 00:16:55,036 Speaker 1: the point of I don't have hope for the future anyways, 367 00:16:55,396 --> 00:16:57,996 Speaker 1: so what's the point of me learning these things? Since 368 00:16:58,436 --> 00:17:00,276 Speaker 1: you talked about this in the book, since twenty ten, 369 00:17:00,516 --> 00:17:03,276 Speaker 1: there is a one hundred percent increase in teen boys 370 00:17:03,316 --> 00:17:06,036 Speaker 1: who don't see their lives as useful, a one hundred 371 00:17:06,076 --> 00:17:09,876 Speaker 1: and sixty three percent increase in teen girls. How can 372 00:17:09,916 --> 00:17:12,356 Speaker 1: we help our kids rediscover purpose? 373 00:17:12,796 --> 00:17:16,356 Speaker 3: Yeah? So the last chapter in the book has these five. 374 00:17:16,236 --> 00:17:20,356 Speaker 4: Questions that help you reframe your own resilience where you've 375 00:17:20,356 --> 00:17:22,996 Speaker 4: been surprised by something that you didn't think you could 376 00:17:22,995 --> 00:17:25,835 Speaker 4: do that you did do. I always tell parents, teachers, 377 00:17:25,916 --> 00:17:27,596 Speaker 4: and coaches, like, do this for yourself first. 378 00:17:27,676 --> 00:17:29,156 Speaker 3: It's hard. It's hard. 379 00:17:29,196 --> 00:17:31,916 Speaker 4: So take those questions and you have to see places 380 00:17:32,035 --> 00:17:36,196 Speaker 4: where God's shown up. You've seen him move in ways 381 00:17:36,196 --> 00:17:38,596 Speaker 4: that you didn't think you could do, and all of 382 00:17:38,596 --> 00:17:40,676 Speaker 4: a sudden that purpose starts to it may just be 383 00:17:40,715 --> 00:17:43,516 Speaker 4: a little ember that you just need to fan. And 384 00:17:43,556 --> 00:17:46,995 Speaker 4: it's great to give kids inspirational stories, but the key 385 00:17:47,076 --> 00:17:48,796 Speaker 4: for them is is to be able to tell their 386 00:17:48,836 --> 00:17:51,955 Speaker 4: own story. And I think that's how God's wired us. 387 00:17:52,035 --> 00:17:54,835 Speaker 4: We are made for stories. We think in stories, you 388 00:17:54,916 --> 00:17:56,835 Speaker 4: need to be able to tell your own story, like 389 00:17:57,076 --> 00:17:59,036 Speaker 4: what have you done that you didn't think you could 390 00:17:59,076 --> 00:18:00,636 Speaker 4: do before you started? 391 00:18:01,156 --> 00:18:02,555 Speaker 3: And then just dig into that. 392 00:18:02,636 --> 00:18:05,475 Speaker 4: And as a parent, you've seen many examples of that, 393 00:18:05,916 --> 00:18:08,756 Speaker 4: but it's better if the kid comes up with it 394 00:18:08,955 --> 00:18:11,676 Speaker 4: than us suggesting like, hey, remember this, or let me 395 00:18:11,715 --> 00:18:13,796 Speaker 4: tell you this story. I think we can also tell 396 00:18:13,836 --> 00:18:16,756 Speaker 4: our own stories, but the key is for the kids 397 00:18:16,796 --> 00:18:19,595 Speaker 4: to really own that. I'm a huge fan not of 398 00:18:19,636 --> 00:18:21,955 Speaker 4: buy in, but of ownership. How do we get kids 399 00:18:21,955 --> 00:18:24,436 Speaker 4: to own their learning? And they need to see the 400 00:18:24,596 --> 00:18:27,196 Speaker 4: benefit of it, like you know, as if you're a 401 00:18:27,475 --> 00:18:29,955 Speaker 4: tenth grader, like what can you do now that you 402 00:18:29,995 --> 00:18:32,235 Speaker 4: couldn't do when you were a third grader? So don't 403 00:18:32,235 --> 00:18:35,916 Speaker 4: tell me school doesn't have a purpose. You are a 404 00:18:35,955 --> 00:18:40,595 Speaker 4: significantly different thinker, writer, mathematician, historian than you are in 405 00:18:40,636 --> 00:18:44,396 Speaker 4: third grade. So school has a purpose. It's to make 406 00:18:44,436 --> 00:18:46,635 Speaker 4: you more of who you were created to be, and 407 00:18:46,676 --> 00:18:50,235 Speaker 4: that is worship. That is worshipful, that is us. Our 408 00:18:50,275 --> 00:18:53,676 Speaker 4: purpose is to glorify God, and one of the best 409 00:18:53,715 --> 00:18:56,555 Speaker 4: ways we can do that is maximizing the gifts He's given, 410 00:18:56,876 --> 00:18:59,835 Speaker 4: not because he needs us, but because we get to 411 00:18:59,995 --> 00:19:02,676 Speaker 4: partner in what He wants to do in the way 412 00:19:02,715 --> 00:19:05,795 Speaker 4: we live out those gifts. And so that's the joy 413 00:19:05,836 --> 00:19:08,436 Speaker 4: of parenting. That's the joy of teaching. It's the joy 414 00:19:08,436 --> 00:19:08,996 Speaker 4: of coaching. 415 00:19:09,316 --> 00:19:12,516 Speaker 3: But the kids have to feel it and that's where 416 00:19:12,515 --> 00:19:14,555 Speaker 3: they develop. I talk about the termstween naive. 417 00:19:14,275 --> 00:19:16,356 Speaker 4: Optimism, the belief we can become more of who are 418 00:19:16,356 --> 00:19:20,515 Speaker 4: created to be, that's just just because, and gritty optimism, 419 00:19:21,156 --> 00:19:24,955 Speaker 4: that belief based on evidence and experience. That's why we 420 00:19:25,156 --> 00:19:28,475 Speaker 4: invite kids into hard things, because then they have evidence 421 00:19:28,475 --> 00:19:30,916 Speaker 4: and experience that they can actually be more than they 422 00:19:30,916 --> 00:19:33,396 Speaker 4: thought they could be. They don't ever surprise God, but 423 00:19:33,436 --> 00:19:34,515 Speaker 4: they surprise themselves. 424 00:19:34,515 --> 00:19:37,556 Speaker 1: Sometimes that's like David, I've killed the lion, I've killed 425 00:19:37,556 --> 00:19:39,876 Speaker 1: the bear, Like he has gritty optimism. 426 00:19:39,955 --> 00:19:41,676 Speaker 2: I've done these things. I can take the giant. 427 00:19:42,515 --> 00:19:46,355 Speaker 1: Those the naive optimism, gritty optimism, and then pessimism. You 428 00:19:46,396 --> 00:19:48,555 Speaker 1: talk about those three mindset options so I'm glad that 429 00:19:48,596 --> 00:19:52,996 Speaker 1: you mentioned those help us understand the difference between destructive 430 00:19:53,035 --> 00:19:55,756 Speaker 1: struggle and productive struggle. 431 00:19:56,076 --> 00:19:58,036 Speaker 4: Yeah, so I can take you back to a I'll 432 00:19:58,035 --> 00:20:02,396 Speaker 4: give you a first great example. So in elementary school, 433 00:20:02,475 --> 00:20:05,076 Speaker 4: my favorite class was art and I loved recess because 434 00:20:05,116 --> 00:20:08,795 Speaker 4: there weren't word there. And in the chapter I talk 435 00:20:08,836 --> 00:20:11,676 Speaker 4: about Missus Frishy, her real name is missus Frishi. I 436 00:20:11,676 --> 00:20:13,116 Speaker 4: can usually hear I had to change her name in 437 00:20:13,156 --> 00:20:16,396 Speaker 4: the book. But Missus Frishie was my art teacher and 438 00:20:16,436 --> 00:20:18,995 Speaker 4: we were cutting out Halloween witches and she gave me 439 00:20:19,235 --> 00:20:21,995 Speaker 4: the green handled scissors because I knew I needed the 440 00:20:21,995 --> 00:20:23,916 Speaker 4: green handled. So if you're old enough to remember the 441 00:20:23,995 --> 00:20:26,235 Speaker 4: lefty scissors that were green handled, I knew I needed 442 00:20:26,275 --> 00:20:28,196 Speaker 4: the green ones. But then I couldn't figure out which 443 00:20:28,196 --> 00:20:30,636 Speaker 4: hand they went on, so I put them on my 444 00:20:30,715 --> 00:20:32,835 Speaker 4: right hand and she snatched them off my hand. She's like, no, 445 00:20:32,916 --> 00:20:35,436 Speaker 4: you're right handed, and she hands me the silver handle scissors, 446 00:20:35,475 --> 00:20:37,676 Speaker 4: which I proceed to put on my left hand. And 447 00:20:37,755 --> 00:20:40,436 Speaker 4: I'm trying to cut the construction paper and it's just 448 00:20:40,556 --> 00:20:44,995 Speaker 4: folding and tearing. Oh and so liquid frustration and shame 449 00:20:45,116 --> 00:20:46,515 Speaker 4: just start running down my cheeks. 450 00:20:46,636 --> 00:20:48,275 Speaker 3: I'm like, I'm not even good at art anymore. I 451 00:20:48,275 --> 00:20:50,356 Speaker 3: can't even cut the So I'm sitting at the back 452 00:20:50,356 --> 00:20:50,835 Speaker 3: of the class. 453 00:20:50,836 --> 00:20:52,636 Speaker 4: But she sees me at the front of the class 454 00:20:52,955 --> 00:20:54,556 Speaker 4: from the front of the class and she's like, John, 455 00:20:54,596 --> 00:20:57,035 Speaker 4: if you're gonna cry, go out in the hall. So 456 00:20:57,116 --> 00:20:59,515 Speaker 4: I get kicked out of art class and I just 457 00:20:59,596 --> 00:21:00,916 Speaker 4: shrink as small as I can. 458 00:21:01,035 --> 00:21:01,836 Speaker 3: I get out the door. 459 00:21:01,876 --> 00:21:04,036 Speaker 4: I slide down the cold cinder block wall, and I'm 460 00:21:04,076 --> 00:21:07,116 Speaker 4: kind of hunched up in the hall sobbing, and there 461 00:21:07,156 --> 00:21:10,075 Speaker 4: are six graders walking by. The girls are trying to 462 00:21:10,076 --> 00:21:12,076 Speaker 4: comfort me. The boys are making fun of me. I'm 463 00:21:12,116 --> 00:21:15,596 Speaker 4: not sure which one's worse. Finally, missus Thayer, my first 464 00:21:15,596 --> 00:21:18,876 Speaker 4: grade teacher, comes by, and she asked me what happened, 465 00:21:18,995 --> 00:21:21,196 Speaker 4: because I'm not the kid that typically is getting kicked 466 00:21:21,196 --> 00:21:23,196 Speaker 4: out of class, and I can't get any words out. 467 00:21:23,556 --> 00:21:25,315 Speaker 4: So she just takes me by the hand, takes me 468 00:21:25,356 --> 00:21:27,356 Speaker 4: back to the classroom, sits me down in one of 469 00:21:27,636 --> 00:21:29,715 Speaker 4: my first grade chair and she sits down in one 470 00:21:29,755 --> 00:21:32,355 Speaker 4: of the tiny chairs right across from me, puts her 471 00:21:32,356 --> 00:21:34,396 Speaker 4: hands on my shoulders, and she said, John, can you 472 00:21:34,436 --> 00:21:35,356 Speaker 4: tell me what happened? 473 00:21:35,955 --> 00:21:38,556 Speaker 3: And so I kind of fuck. 474 00:21:38,755 --> 00:21:40,315 Speaker 4: You know, I can barely get it out, but I 475 00:21:40,356 --> 00:21:42,836 Speaker 4: can still feel it. Right now, this is forty six 476 00:21:42,916 --> 00:21:45,916 Speaker 4: years later, I can still feel it. And she's I 477 00:21:45,955 --> 00:21:47,955 Speaker 4: finally get it out, and she looks me in the 478 00:21:47,995 --> 00:21:50,995 Speaker 4: eye when it's done, and she gives me a big hug. 479 00:21:51,076 --> 00:21:56,276 Speaker 4: I can She's grandmotherly smell to the max, and she says. 480 00:21:56,755 --> 00:21:59,515 Speaker 3: What missus Frishe did to you was wrong. 481 00:22:00,436 --> 00:22:03,755 Speaker 4: And when she breaks adult code, a teacher code like that, 482 00:22:04,356 --> 00:22:06,795 Speaker 4: I'm ready to run through a wall for that woman. 483 00:22:07,316 --> 00:22:12,836 Speaker 4: And because she was patient and perceptive, she recognized over 484 00:22:12,876 --> 00:22:15,275 Speaker 4: the course of the year that I was dealing with dyslexia, 485 00:22:15,316 --> 00:22:18,596 Speaker 4: and so she had me go every week. I rode 486 00:22:18,596 --> 00:22:20,715 Speaker 4: my bike to a retired teacher's house and I work 487 00:22:20,755 --> 00:22:23,995 Speaker 4: through workbook after workbook after workbook all summer. So by 488 00:22:24,076 --> 00:22:27,116 Speaker 4: second grade I was reading on grade level. And so 489 00:22:27,275 --> 00:22:32,076 Speaker 4: that's a perfect example of the humanizing or dehumanizing struggle 490 00:22:32,196 --> 00:22:36,475 Speaker 4: that productive versus destructive struggle. We have that choice every day. 491 00:22:37,156 --> 00:22:40,515 Speaker 4: We're either going to speak life into kids' lives or 492 00:22:40,515 --> 00:22:44,075 Speaker 4: we're going to make them feel like life doesn't have 493 00:22:44,116 --> 00:22:46,636 Speaker 4: a point, We're just going to remove them from it. 494 00:22:46,676 --> 00:22:49,475 Speaker 4: And so we can either be curious or incurious. We 495 00:22:49,515 --> 00:22:53,035 Speaker 4: can build up or tear down. And so Missus Thayer, 496 00:22:53,636 --> 00:22:56,196 Speaker 4: I mean, she's my favorite teacher of all time, that's right, 497 00:22:56,796 --> 00:23:00,156 Speaker 4: And I remember everything about her. Missus Frishi, I remember 498 00:23:00,196 --> 00:23:03,275 Speaker 4: everything about her too, and I can see why you 499 00:23:03,436 --> 00:23:06,076 Speaker 4: changed her name, right, right, right. 500 00:23:06,475 --> 00:23:06,916 Speaker 3: And so. 501 00:23:09,316 --> 00:23:11,555 Speaker 4: That's what we get to do with kids, and so 502 00:23:12,196 --> 00:23:15,636 Speaker 4: those things stick with kids for a very long time. 503 00:23:15,715 --> 00:23:18,836 Speaker 4: And for me it's been forty six years. And that's 504 00:23:19,515 --> 00:23:21,876 Speaker 4: that's the reality of what we do. And so that 505 00:23:22,116 --> 00:23:25,676 Speaker 4: productive struggle, that's what all learning is, is productive struggle. 506 00:23:25,676 --> 00:23:28,316 Speaker 4: How do you invite kids in, give them the supports 507 00:23:28,316 --> 00:23:30,715 Speaker 4: they need to become more of who they're created to be, 508 00:23:31,475 --> 00:23:34,315 Speaker 4: or do we use struggle as a battering ram to 509 00:23:34,356 --> 00:23:36,356 Speaker 4: say you're not good enough, You're not enough. 510 00:23:36,556 --> 00:23:37,956 Speaker 3: You don't you know, It's. 511 00:23:37,796 --> 00:23:41,875 Speaker 4: Like that's not what the Lord wants from us. So 512 00:23:41,995 --> 00:23:44,436 Speaker 4: those are the two options. And so that's a kind 513 00:23:44,436 --> 00:23:47,596 Speaker 4: of a brief story that gives the side to that coin. 514 00:23:47,715 --> 00:23:50,316 Speaker 2: That is so good. You can feel that so much. 515 00:23:50,436 --> 00:23:52,396 Speaker 1: Now I want to I want to follow up on 516 00:23:52,436 --> 00:23:56,236 Speaker 1: something you said because a parent is listening and they think, oh, 517 00:23:56,235 --> 00:24:00,556 Speaker 1: my goodness, my child has dyslexia. My child has ADHD, 518 00:24:00,836 --> 00:24:03,796 Speaker 1: my child has something, and we're really struggling. And here 519 00:24:03,836 --> 00:24:06,676 Speaker 1: you are. And I've been calling you John, but you 520 00:24:06,715 --> 00:24:10,235 Speaker 1: are doctor Jonathan Eckert, like you are a very educated person. 521 00:24:10,676 --> 00:24:14,916 Speaker 1: So give that parent that hope of Hey, that might 522 00:24:14,955 --> 00:24:17,475 Speaker 1: be a struggle your kid has, but they can accomplish 523 00:24:17,475 --> 00:24:18,516 Speaker 1: a whole lot more than you think. 524 00:24:18,715 --> 00:24:22,036 Speaker 3: Yeah. No, I mean one in ten kids deals with dyslexia. 525 00:24:22,076 --> 00:24:23,995 Speaker 3: And I'll just pan this. I don't know if you'll 526 00:24:24,035 --> 00:24:26,355 Speaker 3: be able to see it, but these are all My 527 00:24:26,436 --> 00:24:27,715 Speaker 3: office is just full of books. 528 00:24:27,796 --> 00:24:33,315 Speaker 4: I read all the time, and I now love reading 529 00:24:33,356 --> 00:24:36,036 Speaker 4: so much. I hated reading, especially out loud, as a kid. 530 00:24:36,116 --> 00:24:39,235 Speaker 4: I just it was horrible. But the beauty of things 531 00:24:39,275 --> 00:24:42,036 Speaker 4: like dyslexia, this is where the depth of the struggle 532 00:24:42,076 --> 00:24:44,396 Speaker 4: often determines the peak of the joy. Because I had 533 00:24:44,396 --> 00:24:47,595 Speaker 4: to work harder at reading. I now remember what I 534 00:24:47,755 --> 00:24:51,196 Speaker 4: read so well and then can apply it. And my 535 00:24:51,356 --> 00:24:54,916 Speaker 4: classes are twenty five of the best authors on any topic, 536 00:24:54,995 --> 00:24:57,715 Speaker 4: where I pull the best chapter article they've written, and 537 00:24:57,755 --> 00:25:00,196 Speaker 4: they get a seven hundred and fifty to one thousand 538 00:25:00,275 --> 00:25:03,115 Speaker 4: page course pack. That to me is like half the 539 00:25:03,196 --> 00:25:05,636 Speaker 4: value of the class. You've had somebody who's been reading 540 00:25:05,676 --> 00:25:10,396 Speaker 4: for thirty years in educational leadership and education how kids learn, 541 00:25:10,475 --> 00:25:13,316 Speaker 4: And I'm saying, here are the best pieces because this 542 00:25:13,356 --> 00:25:15,715 Speaker 4: is what I get to do, and I'm able to 543 00:25:15,796 --> 00:25:18,715 Speaker 4: remember and pull details from those things because of the 544 00:25:20,076 --> 00:25:22,755 Speaker 4: I learned how to read differently. So that's not always 545 00:25:22,796 --> 00:25:26,396 Speaker 4: the case. Sometimes struggle just leads to struggle. But I 546 00:25:26,436 --> 00:25:29,156 Speaker 4: think when we have to work harder for things, that 547 00:25:29,316 --> 00:25:33,876 Speaker 4: makes a huge, huge difference in the way we approach 548 00:25:33,876 --> 00:25:35,035 Speaker 4: struggle moving forward. 549 00:25:35,356 --> 00:25:38,676 Speaker 2: That's amazing, It's so good. Last question for you. 550 00:25:38,755 --> 00:25:42,116 Speaker 1: Every summer at Baylor you speak to five thousand incoming 551 00:25:42,196 --> 00:25:46,235 Speaker 1: students and their families to welcome them. What do you 552 00:25:47,436 --> 00:25:48,995 Speaker 1: for those of us who are listening, and maybe we 553 00:25:48,995 --> 00:25:51,876 Speaker 1: have a kindergartener or a sixth grader or twelfth grader, 554 00:25:52,475 --> 00:25:54,716 Speaker 1: what do we need to know so that we can 555 00:25:54,796 --> 00:25:57,356 Speaker 1: prepare our children well for that moment? 556 00:25:57,916 --> 00:25:59,276 Speaker 3: Well, this is the encouragement. 557 00:25:59,316 --> 00:26:02,196 Speaker 4: I think it's gotten easier and easier to have our 558 00:26:02,316 --> 00:26:08,036 Speaker 4: kids be amazing because true, the world getting darker and darker, 559 00:26:08,235 --> 00:26:10,515 Speaker 4: and so true, I made every kid I taught for 560 00:26:10,515 --> 00:26:13,276 Speaker 4: twelve years recite this quote from Theodore Roosevelt in front 561 00:26:13,316 --> 00:26:15,115 Speaker 4: of the whole class. That came from his book The 562 00:26:15,156 --> 00:26:18,075 Speaker 4: Strenuous Life in eighteen ninety nine, and I would tell 563 00:26:18,156 --> 00:26:20,715 Speaker 4: them the story. I now tell the story of me 564 00:26:20,796 --> 00:26:23,436 Speaker 4: and my son running with the bulls in Pamplona. 565 00:26:22,916 --> 00:26:25,635 Speaker 3: Spain and ending with the bull ring. Yeah, it was crazy. 566 00:26:25,836 --> 00:26:29,876 Speaker 4: Eighteen year old eighteen year old brain, underdeveloped prefrontal quortex 567 00:26:30,035 --> 00:26:31,316 Speaker 4: thinks that's a good ideas. 568 00:26:31,356 --> 00:26:33,235 Speaker 1: Wait, you honestly did that with your son. 569 00:26:33,556 --> 00:26:34,955 Speaker 3: Yeah, there's stories in the book. 570 00:26:34,995 --> 00:26:37,315 Speaker 1: It's a crazy Please don't get that book people, so 571 00:26:37,356 --> 00:26:38,636 Speaker 1: that you can read that story. 572 00:26:38,755 --> 00:26:39,715 Speaker 2: The happiness crisis. 573 00:26:39,876 --> 00:26:41,996 Speaker 3: Dumbest thing I've ever done. But they do it. They've 574 00:26:41,995 --> 00:26:44,356 Speaker 3: been doing it for five hundred years. Eight mornings in 575 00:26:44,475 --> 00:26:46,755 Speaker 3: July at eight am. They do it eight straight days, 576 00:26:46,796 --> 00:26:48,595 Speaker 3: which I had no idea. But we end up in 577 00:26:48,596 --> 00:26:49,196 Speaker 3: this bull ring. 578 00:26:49,275 --> 00:26:51,356 Speaker 4: And so Theodore Roosevelt wrote the famous Man in the 579 00:26:51,396 --> 00:26:54,115 Speaker 4: Arena speech, and this was the quote. Far better it 580 00:26:54,156 --> 00:26:56,515 Speaker 4: is to dear mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even 581 00:26:56,556 --> 00:26:59,516 Speaker 4: though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those 582 00:26:59,556 --> 00:27:02,156 Speaker 4: poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because 583 00:27:02,196 --> 00:27:03,916 Speaker 4: they live in the gray twilight. 584 00:27:03,955 --> 00:27:05,596 Speaker 3: That knows neither victory nor defeat. 585 00:27:06,596 --> 00:27:08,075 Speaker 4: Now i'd have kids to say, Hey, can I just 586 00:27:08,156 --> 00:27:10,196 Speaker 4: tell you that separately, Like Nope, it's got to be 587 00:27:10,235 --> 00:27:12,275 Speaker 4: in front of the whole class, Like you've got to 588 00:27:12,356 --> 00:27:14,795 Speaker 4: dare greatly, You've got to do these things in a 589 00:27:14,796 --> 00:27:17,276 Speaker 4: way that's like, Hey, I'm going to live out who 590 00:27:17,316 --> 00:27:20,115 Speaker 4: I am because of who God to be. And if 591 00:27:20,156 --> 00:27:22,275 Speaker 4: you're a Christian, you have the Holy Spirit inside of 592 00:27:22,275 --> 00:27:24,275 Speaker 4: you and that's all the power you need. It's like, 593 00:27:24,275 --> 00:27:26,676 Speaker 4: you're gonna do it. And I think he talks about 594 00:27:26,676 --> 00:27:29,196 Speaker 4: the gray twilight that knows neither victory in orrd to 595 00:27:29,196 --> 00:27:31,916 Speaker 4: fee in twenty twenty six. I don't really think there's 596 00:27:31,955 --> 00:27:34,155 Speaker 4: a gray twilight. I think it's either darkness or we 597 00:27:34,196 --> 00:27:36,916 Speaker 4: reflect God's light to a dark world. 598 00:27:37,035 --> 00:27:39,316 Speaker 3: And that's what we're inviting our kids into. 599 00:27:39,396 --> 00:27:43,115 Speaker 4: And so when I have students at Baylor, I'm like, hey, 600 00:27:43,156 --> 00:27:46,276 Speaker 4: you're going to lean into the ABC's of joy adversity 601 00:27:46,636 --> 00:27:50,716 Speaker 4: that leads to belonging and cultivates curiosity not just. 602 00:27:50,715 --> 00:27:52,676 Speaker 3: In ideas but in people. 603 00:27:53,116 --> 00:27:57,035 Speaker 4: We are in an increasingly incurious world, and as Christians, 604 00:27:57,035 --> 00:28:01,956 Speaker 4: we should be the most hospitably welcoming people in the world. 605 00:28:02,035 --> 00:28:05,755 Speaker 4: And our curiosity should drive that if we disagree, we 606 00:28:05,796 --> 00:28:09,515 Speaker 4: don't dismiss. We step in like, hey, what experiences have 607 00:28:09,596 --> 00:28:10,476 Speaker 4: led you to believe that? 608 00:28:10,556 --> 00:28:11,476 Speaker 3: Why do you think that? 609 00:28:12,035 --> 00:28:15,795 Speaker 4: And so Baylor can be this unbelievably welcoming place because 610 00:28:15,836 --> 00:28:19,475 Speaker 4: we're a distinctly Christian research one university where we know 611 00:28:19,556 --> 00:28:24,116 Speaker 4: truth is truth and we pursue joy in loving community. 612 00:28:24,515 --> 00:28:27,796 Speaker 4: And so when you do that with others, like, that's 613 00:28:27,836 --> 00:28:30,636 Speaker 4: the best there is on this side of heaven, because 614 00:28:30,636 --> 00:28:33,396 Speaker 4: that's how we're wired and we're built for relationships. So 615 00:28:33,596 --> 00:28:37,035 Speaker 4: use adversity, go through hard things with others, not trauma, 616 00:28:37,076 --> 00:28:39,236 Speaker 4: but go through hard things. You'll be bonded in ways 617 00:28:39,276 --> 00:28:42,916 Speaker 4: that you can't even imagine. And it moves from belonging 618 00:28:42,956 --> 00:28:45,476 Speaker 4: to mattering. You know you matter, you know you're missed 619 00:28:45,996 --> 00:28:48,676 Speaker 4: when you're not there because people count on you. And 620 00:28:48,716 --> 00:28:52,196 Speaker 4: then that'll cultivate the curiosity that just continues to foster 621 00:28:53,236 --> 00:28:56,516 Speaker 4: more joy as we get to experience the joy that 622 00:28:56,916 --> 00:28:59,196 Speaker 4: because it was set before him on the cross Hebrews 623 00:28:59,196 --> 00:28:59,716 Speaker 4: twelve two. 624 00:29:00,036 --> 00:29:00,716 Speaker 3: He endured that. 625 00:29:00,716 --> 00:29:02,956 Speaker 4: Cross for us and for our joy. And what a 626 00:29:04,076 --> 00:29:06,156 Speaker 4: beautiful thing to be part of Hebrews twelve to one. 627 00:29:06,436 --> 00:29:09,156 Speaker 4: You know We're surrounded by this great cloud of witnesses, 628 00:29:09,196 --> 00:29:11,315 Speaker 4: and we can throw off everything that hinders us, the 629 00:29:11,356 --> 00:29:15,596 Speaker 4: sin that so easily entangles us, and run the race marked. 630 00:29:15,276 --> 00:29:17,716 Speaker 3: Out for us because of Christ. And we get to 631 00:29:17,756 --> 00:29:20,156 Speaker 3: do that in the body. And what a blessing that is. 632 00:29:20,796 --> 00:29:22,156 Speaker 2: That's awesome, It's so good. 633 00:29:22,236 --> 00:29:25,356 Speaker 1: The book is The Happiness Crisis, How adversity can build 634 00:29:25,476 --> 00:29:29,835 Speaker 1: a resilient and joyful next generation. John doctor Eckert. How 635 00:29:29,876 --> 00:29:32,315 Speaker 1: can we find out more about you? More about this book? 636 00:29:32,556 --> 00:29:35,716 Speaker 4: Yeah, the Happiness Crisis dot com. If you look there, 637 00:29:35,796 --> 00:29:38,315 Speaker 4: it's got all the links. You can find me at 638 00:29:38,356 --> 00:29:42,395 Speaker 4: Jonathaneckert dot org. This website, find me on LinkedIn, Email 639 00:29:42,476 --> 00:29:46,116 Speaker 4: me at Baylor. Yes, so great to be with you. 640 00:29:46,156 --> 00:29:49,075 Speaker 4: Love what your audience is leaning into, and yeah, just 641 00:29:49,116 --> 00:29:51,396 Speaker 4: stay strong. Send our job to be our parents' friends. 642 00:29:51,396 --> 00:29:54,276 Speaker 4: We got to be parents to them and have these 643 00:29:54,316 --> 00:29:58,716 Speaker 4: hard conversations that lead to more joy and less dead 644 00:29:58,836 --> 00:29:59,595 Speaker 4: end happiness. 645 00:30:00,156 --> 00:30:01,796 Speaker 3: I love the happiness you're talking about on. 646 00:30:01,796 --> 00:30:03,556 Speaker 4: Your show, but I think we do need to help 647 00:30:03,636 --> 00:30:07,236 Speaker 4: kids understand what real, deep, abiding happiness and joy are. 648 00:30:07,436 --> 00:30:08,315 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so true. 649 00:30:08,396 --> 00:30:11,756 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for being part of this episode. 650 00:30:11,876 --> 00:30:15,676 Speaker 1: And parents, we have a mandate now. Thank you so much, John, 651 00:30:15,756 --> 00:30:16,556 Speaker 1: great to have. 652 00:30:16,476 --> 00:30:18,036 Speaker 3: You, Thanks for having me. 653 00:30:19,876 --> 00:30:25,595 Speaker 1: Pravos so good. All right, I hope you've enjoyed today's conversation. 654 00:30:25,996 --> 00:30:29,156 Speaker 1: I'd love to keep in touch beyond this podcast. Click 655 00:30:29,236 --> 00:30:31,956 Speaker 1: subscribe in the show notes and I will give you 656 00:30:32,036 --> 00:30:34,835 Speaker 1: my latest email to keep up on what's happening with 657 00:30:34,956 --> 00:30:36,476 Speaker 1: technology and kids. 658 00:30:36,956 --> 00:30:37,876 Speaker 2: And maybe you like. 659 00:30:37,916 --> 00:30:39,716 Speaker 1: Reading or listening to books. 660 00:30:39,756 --> 00:30:40,916 Speaker 2: I have a lot of books. 661 00:30:40,996 --> 00:30:44,556 Speaker 1: You could start with The Big Three, Making Marriage Easier, 662 00:30:45,116 --> 00:30:48,916 Speaker 1: Parents Rising, or Screen Kids. A big thank you to 663 00:30:48,996 --> 00:30:51,476 Speaker 1: the team at life Audio for their partnership with the 664 00:30:51,516 --> 00:30:55,476 Speaker 1: Happy Home podcast. Check out lifeaudio dot com for dozens 665 00:30:55,476 --> 00:30:59,756 Speaker 1: of other faith related podcasts about prayer, Bible study, and more. 666 00:31:00,396 --> 00:31:03,436 Speaker 1: Remember you don't have to come from a happy. 667 00:31:03,076 --> 00:31:06,516 Speaker 2: Home to create one. You too, can have a happy 668 00:31:06,556 --> 00:31:06,836 Speaker 2: homes