1 00:00:08,237 --> 00:00:09,657 Speaker 1: Life Audio. 2 00:00:11,257 --> 00:00:13,917 Speaker 2: Whether you're new to prayer or have been praying for years, 3 00:00:14,177 --> 00:00:17,657 Speaker 2: the Jesus Listens by Sarah Young devotional empowers you to 4 00:00:17,697 --> 00:00:21,127 Speaker 2: draw near to God daily. Now, you can find this 5 00:00:21,187 --> 00:00:25,366 Speaker 2: beloved book in a deluxe pink leather-soft edition with elegant 6 00:00:25,467 --> 00:00:29,566 Speaker 2: foil accents, making it both a beautiful keepsake and a 7 00:00:29,587 --> 00:00:32,836 Speaker 2: meaningful gift. Inside, you'll find 365 days of Bible-based prayers. 8 00:00:35,817 --> 00:00:40,177 Speaker 2: scripture references, and a ribbon marker, perfect for quiet moments 9 00:00:40,217 --> 00:00:43,117 Speaker 2: at home or prayer on the go. Look for it 10 00:00:43,297 --> 00:00:44,317 Speaker 2: wherever you buy books. 11 00:00:47,637 --> 00:00:51,226 Speaker 1: Rick was diagnosed probably around 20 years ago, and Parkinson's 12 00:00:51,307 --> 00:00:54,267 Speaker 1: is a very slow killer. The hardest part, I think, 13 00:00:54,307 --> 00:00:58,987 Speaker 1: for him has been the increasing limitations. We spend time together, 14 00:00:59,027 --> 00:01:03,867 Speaker 1: we read together, and it's just your relationship changes out 15 00:01:03,887 --> 00:01:09,006 Speaker 1: of necessity. I think you learn and you grow together. 16 00:01:10,587 --> 00:01:13,687 Speaker 2: Welcome to the Jesus Calling Podcast. This week we hear 17 00:01:13,727 --> 00:01:17,027 Speaker 2: from bestselling author Francine Rivers, who has been married to 18 00:01:17,067 --> 00:01:20,387 Speaker 2: her husband Rick for 56 years. She shares how a 19 00:01:20,427 --> 00:01:23,107 Speaker 2: home Bible study helped carry them from the edge of divorce, 20 00:01:23,447 --> 00:01:27,147 Speaker 2: what caring for Rick, a Vietnam Marine with Parkinson's, looks 21 00:01:27,187 --> 00:01:31,287 Speaker 2: like now, and why she sees death as a beginning. Next, 22 00:01:31,387 --> 00:01:35,307 Speaker 2: Bible teacher and speaker Whitney Capps offers profound insight into 23 00:01:35,327 --> 00:01:38,247 Speaker 2: the process of dying and holding fast to faith in 24 00:01:38,287 --> 00:01:41,987 Speaker 2: the midst of questions, pain, and suffering. Her story touches 25 00:01:42,087 --> 00:01:46,067 Speaker 2: on confronting her mortality daily, finding comfort in a supportive community, 26 00:01:46,387 --> 00:01:51,837 Speaker 2: and experiencing deep peace through uncertainty. Let's begin with Francine's story. 27 00:01:55,517 --> 00:01:58,557 Speaker 1: I'm Francine Rivers, and I'm a wife of 56 years. 28 00:02:00,197 --> 00:02:04,777 Speaker 1: mother of three, grandmother of six, and a great-grandmother of two, 29 00:02:04,957 --> 00:02:11,597 Speaker 1: and I'm a writer. I write novels. Rick and I 30 00:02:11,927 --> 00:02:15,746 Speaker 1: have known each other since fifth grade. We were really 31 00:02:15,807 --> 00:02:18,327 Speaker 1: good friends. And then he went to Vietnam, I went 32 00:02:18,367 --> 00:02:22,847 Speaker 1: to college, and we started writing. And then he came home, 33 00:02:23,567 --> 00:02:25,707 Speaker 1: and you've grown up and you look at each other 34 00:02:25,747 --> 00:02:29,017 Speaker 1: and go, wow, this is all different. You know, I 35 00:02:29,037 --> 00:02:31,697 Speaker 1: think I was his first date in freshman year to 36 00:02:31,737 --> 00:02:35,407 Speaker 1: the fall ball or whatever we called it. But he 37 00:02:35,467 --> 00:02:37,987 Speaker 1: always had another girlfriend. But after he'd go out, he'd 38 00:02:38,027 --> 00:02:40,647 Speaker 1: come to my place and we'd sit, we'd talk and 39 00:02:40,707 --> 00:02:43,557 Speaker 1: we'd dream about how we both wanted to travel. And 40 00:02:44,337 --> 00:02:46,757 Speaker 1: he wanted to be in the Marine Corps. So we 41 00:02:46,777 --> 00:02:49,737 Speaker 1: had that real strong friendship to begin with. And then 42 00:02:49,777 --> 00:02:53,026 Speaker 1: we got married. And of course, I had baggage from 43 00:02:53,047 --> 00:02:56,827 Speaker 1: the college years, and he had PTSD from Vietnam. So 44 00:02:56,867 --> 00:02:58,847 Speaker 1: there was a lot of growing up to do and 45 00:02:58,907 --> 00:03:01,547 Speaker 1: working together. I think, you know, you start out with 46 00:03:01,567 --> 00:03:04,767 Speaker 1: this passionate love for each other, which doesn't die away, 47 00:03:05,387 --> 00:03:10,137 Speaker 1: but your love grows and changes and matures. And, I mean, 48 00:03:10,157 --> 00:03:14,417 Speaker 1: we've been together for 56 years, and it's still great. 49 00:03:15,237 --> 00:03:19,037 Speaker 1: I can't imagine life without him, frankly. Just can't imagine it. 50 00:03:19,547 --> 00:03:23,867 Speaker 1: His parents were married 61 years. My brother and sister-in-law 51 00:03:23,887 --> 00:03:27,747 Speaker 1: have been married 56 years. My parents were married 45 52 00:03:27,747 --> 00:03:29,966 Speaker 1: years that they both passed away of cancer within a 53 00:03:30,207 --> 00:03:32,387 Speaker 1: couple of years of each other. But we kind of 54 00:03:32,427 --> 00:03:36,337 Speaker 1: grew up in that culture where you stick together. You know, 55 00:03:36,357 --> 00:03:38,837 Speaker 1: a lot of people tend to divorce and then without 56 00:03:38,857 --> 00:03:41,177 Speaker 1: realizing it, they go right out and they marry the 57 00:03:41,217 --> 00:03:45,277 Speaker 1: same person again. The same kind of personality rather than 58 00:03:45,337 --> 00:03:48,837 Speaker 1: dealing with the problems that they're having and working together. 59 00:03:49,477 --> 00:03:52,377 Speaker 1: to work things through and build your love, they kind 60 00:03:52,417 --> 00:03:56,477 Speaker 1: of give up. Marriage is not easy. You know, we 61 00:03:56,517 --> 00:03:59,577 Speaker 1: weren't Christians when we got married. When we came to Christ, 62 00:03:59,797 --> 00:04:02,877 Speaker 1: we really were able to work together on all kinds 63 00:04:02,947 --> 00:04:05,807 Speaker 1: of things. I think that when you have Christ at 64 00:04:05,847 --> 00:04:08,367 Speaker 1: the center of your relationship, that can make all the difference. 65 00:04:08,587 --> 00:04:12,127 Speaker 1: Because at one point, we were close to divorce, and 66 00:04:12,307 --> 00:04:14,807 Speaker 1: that's when we ended up moving. My husband was starting 67 00:04:14,827 --> 00:04:18,277 Speaker 1: a new business. And there was only one place for 68 00:04:18,356 --> 00:04:22,437 Speaker 1: rent in Sebastopol, California. And it just happened to be 69 00:04:22,777 --> 00:04:25,657 Speaker 1: between two Christian couples, both of whom went to the 70 00:04:25,697 --> 00:04:29,457 Speaker 1: same church. And it was unlike the denominational church I'd 71 00:04:29,476 --> 00:04:33,387 Speaker 1: grown up in. It was just non-denominational. They were preaching 72 00:04:33,416 --> 00:04:36,527 Speaker 1: right straight from the Bible. And it was a totally 73 00:04:36,566 --> 00:04:39,347 Speaker 1: different experience. And that's out of that that we started 74 00:04:39,387 --> 00:04:42,606 Speaker 1: the home Bible study. And my husband was not ready 75 00:04:42,686 --> 00:04:45,687 Speaker 1: for it. But he said, yeah, go ahead. And I 76 00:04:45,726 --> 00:04:48,387 Speaker 1: figure if I couldn't get my husband to church, then 77 00:04:48,426 --> 00:04:50,866 Speaker 1: I'd bring the church to my husband. And he and 78 00:04:50,897 --> 00:04:53,717 Speaker 1: the pastor had been friends for years. And we still 79 00:04:53,736 --> 00:04:57,136 Speaker 1: have that Bible study. It's been 41 years now. And 80 00:04:57,176 --> 00:04:59,276 Speaker 1: you can really share together when you're in a small 81 00:04:59,316 --> 00:05:01,476 Speaker 1: group or you can't when you're at church. You know, 82 00:05:01,496 --> 00:05:03,996 Speaker 1: you're growing all the time. Things are changing. Your life 83 00:05:04,077 --> 00:05:06,496 Speaker 1: is changing. You have a lot of different phases. And 84 00:05:07,087 --> 00:05:10,287 Speaker 1: it's worth the work. The love deepens, I think, as 85 00:05:10,327 --> 00:05:18,207 Speaker 1: time goes by. Rick was diagnosed with Parkinson's probably around 86 00:05:18,207 --> 00:05:21,106 Speaker 1: 20 years ago, and he was exposed to Agent Orange 87 00:05:21,147 --> 00:05:25,926 Speaker 1: in Vietnam, where he served as a Marine. It started gradually. 88 00:05:26,426 --> 00:05:29,407 Speaker 1: He was golfing and bowling, and we were traveling all 89 00:05:29,507 --> 00:05:34,046 Speaker 1: over during the years. It was in, I think, 2019 90 00:05:34,046 --> 00:05:38,367 Speaker 1: when he contracted septic meningitis, and that really kicked him 91 00:05:38,407 --> 00:05:42,186 Speaker 1: to the curb. So that just speeded up the process. 92 00:05:42,806 --> 00:05:45,366 Speaker 1: He's in a wheelchair now, and I think you learn, 93 00:05:46,147 --> 00:05:50,007 Speaker 1: you grow together. He's a really good patient. He never 94 00:05:50,046 --> 00:05:52,627 Speaker 1: complains to me. He said it could be worse. Parkinson's 95 00:05:52,647 --> 00:05:55,806 Speaker 1: is a very slow killer. The hardest part, I think, 96 00:05:55,847 --> 00:05:59,827 Speaker 1: for him has been the increasing limitations, not being able 97 00:05:59,847 --> 00:06:02,806 Speaker 1: to drive, not being able to go out and do things. 98 00:06:02,866 --> 00:06:06,587 Speaker 1: We don't travel anymore. For me, I'm up usually around 99 00:06:06,587 --> 00:06:09,347 Speaker 1: 5 o'clock. We have a German shepherd, and he wakes 100 00:06:09,447 --> 00:06:12,166 Speaker 1: up early, so I take him out. And that gives 101 00:06:12,267 --> 00:06:16,327 Speaker 1: me probably two hours before I start getting ready and 102 00:06:16,426 --> 00:06:20,027 Speaker 1: get Rick up. And that time is my dedicated time 103 00:06:20,066 --> 00:06:22,847 Speaker 1: to the Lord when I'm reading things like Jesus Calling 104 00:06:22,887 --> 00:06:25,287 Speaker 1: and then the scriptures to go and look up. And 105 00:06:25,866 --> 00:06:28,337 Speaker 1: I'm in the Word every morning. And I think that's 106 00:06:28,376 --> 00:06:31,757 Speaker 1: really important to set the course of the day. I 107 00:06:31,837 --> 00:06:35,637 Speaker 1: notice that when I don't do that, for whatever reason, 108 00:06:35,796 --> 00:06:41,636 Speaker 1: something happens. My day doesn't go nearly as well. You know, 109 00:06:41,976 --> 00:06:43,967 Speaker 1: it's a way to make sure God is in control 110 00:06:43,976 --> 00:06:47,067 Speaker 1: of your day. And he's the first person on your 111 00:06:47,106 --> 00:06:49,627 Speaker 1: mind when you get up in the morning is to 112 00:06:49,787 --> 00:06:54,166 Speaker 1: give thanks. To take care of myself, I do a 113 00:06:54,186 --> 00:06:58,787 Speaker 1: lot of gardening around the house and we travel online. 114 00:06:58,806 --> 00:07:01,226 Speaker 1: I have a list of places that I'd love to see. 115 00:07:01,277 --> 00:07:03,396 Speaker 1: So I just let's look it up on YouTube and 116 00:07:03,416 --> 00:07:06,137 Speaker 1: take a tour. You know, we spend time together. We 117 00:07:06,197 --> 00:07:12,497 Speaker 1: read together. And it's just your relationship changes. Out of necessity, 118 00:07:12,577 --> 00:07:15,517 Speaker 1: I have learned that I have physical limitations. We now 119 00:07:15,577 --> 00:07:19,217 Speaker 1: have a caregiver come in every day from 8 to 120 00:07:19,217 --> 00:07:25,107 Speaker 1: 8 because he's a 170-pound man. And the lifts can 121 00:07:25,127 --> 00:07:29,206 Speaker 1: be heavy. So for me, it can be really physically 122 00:07:30,247 --> 00:07:34,227 Speaker 1: impossible at some times. So that's been a hard limitation 123 00:07:34,287 --> 00:07:38,557 Speaker 1: for me to accept. But you have to accept it 124 00:07:38,657 --> 00:07:41,887 Speaker 1: after a while. You just can't do the work. We 125 00:07:41,907 --> 00:07:44,287 Speaker 1: try to keep a socialized, the Bible study, the group 126 00:07:44,347 --> 00:07:46,867 Speaker 1: that comes to the house every week. We go to church. 127 00:07:47,607 --> 00:07:50,647 Speaker 1: He has friends come over for lunch. So we stay connected. 128 00:07:50,707 --> 00:07:54,227 Speaker 1: We're not isolating in the way where we don't see anybody, 129 00:07:55,037 --> 00:07:57,257 Speaker 1: which I think is really important. And then we try 130 00:07:57,277 --> 00:08:00,357 Speaker 1: to get out on drives because you can go a 131 00:08:00,377 --> 00:08:02,937 Speaker 1: little stir crazy when all you can do is sit 132 00:08:02,957 --> 00:08:06,337 Speaker 1: at home in a lift chair and watch television. You 133 00:08:06,357 --> 00:08:09,097 Speaker 1: need to get out and about and get some fresh air. 134 00:08:13,897 --> 00:08:17,336 Speaker 1: I have some health issues. And a couple of years 135 00:08:17,397 --> 00:08:21,017 Speaker 1: ago where just for whatever reason, I just stopped eating 136 00:08:21,117 --> 00:08:24,337 Speaker 1: and I was on the couch. I was nauseated all 137 00:08:24,377 --> 00:08:27,877 Speaker 1: the time. But I remember thinking my prayer has been 138 00:08:27,897 --> 00:08:31,357 Speaker 1: that I would stay in good physical health as long 139 00:08:31,417 --> 00:08:33,737 Speaker 1: as Rick needs me. And I think it was that 140 00:08:33,797 --> 00:08:36,087 Speaker 1: time on the couch toward the end where I lost 141 00:08:36,147 --> 00:08:39,987 Speaker 1: like 15, 20 pounds. And I thought, God will take 142 00:08:40,027 --> 00:08:43,387 Speaker 1: care of him. I don't have to. I don't have 143 00:08:43,417 --> 00:08:46,927 Speaker 1: to worry about that. God will take care of him. 144 00:08:47,207 --> 00:08:49,707 Speaker 1: And that was a really important thing for me to feel. 145 00:08:49,767 --> 00:08:53,087 Speaker 1: And I think when you are facing a limited time 146 00:08:53,107 --> 00:08:56,667 Speaker 1: in this body, sometimes it's like, oh, I can hardly 147 00:08:56,707 --> 00:08:59,147 Speaker 1: wait to have the new body, be able to do 148 00:08:59,207 --> 00:09:01,587 Speaker 1: things that I haven't been able to do for quite 149 00:09:01,607 --> 00:09:05,667 Speaker 1: a while. But just to accept that I'm moving toward 150 00:09:05,707 --> 00:09:09,897 Speaker 1: a grand adventure, and so is Rick. It's not an end, 151 00:09:09,947 --> 00:09:14,117 Speaker 1: it's a beginning. There are some trepidation is kind of 152 00:09:14,137 --> 00:09:16,657 Speaker 1: like being pregnant and you've never had a baby before 153 00:09:16,697 --> 00:09:18,837 Speaker 1: and you don't know what delivery is going to be like. 154 00:09:19,577 --> 00:09:21,787 Speaker 1: I think that's kind of the way I look at death. 155 00:09:21,867 --> 00:09:23,667 Speaker 1: You don't really know what it's going to be like, 156 00:09:23,787 --> 00:09:25,927 Speaker 1: but you know what's on the other side is joy 157 00:09:25,947 --> 00:09:29,307 Speaker 1: that God's promised us. So we kind of focus on 158 00:09:29,347 --> 00:09:34,867 Speaker 1: that more than anything. What's beyond? Not necessarily the difficulties 159 00:09:34,927 --> 00:09:41,167 Speaker 1: right now. I'm reading from Jesus Calling, December 10th. Make 160 00:09:41,227 --> 00:09:43,947 Speaker 1: me the focal point of your search for security in 161 00:09:43,967 --> 00:09:47,117 Speaker 1: your private thoughts. You are still trying to order your 162 00:09:47,157 --> 00:09:50,817 Speaker 1: world so that it is predictable and feels safe. Not 163 00:09:50,937 --> 00:09:53,597 Speaker 1: only is this an impossible goal, but it is also 164 00:09:53,677 --> 00:09:57,837 Speaker 1: counterproductive to the spiritual growth. When your private world feels 165 00:09:58,007 --> 00:10:00,807 Speaker 1: unsteady and you grip my hand for support, you are 166 00:10:00,847 --> 00:10:04,747 Speaker 1: living in conscious dependence on me instead of yearning for 167 00:10:04,767 --> 00:10:09,136 Speaker 1: a problem-free life. Rejoice that trouble can highlight your awareness 168 00:10:09,177 --> 00:10:12,457 Speaker 1: of my presence. In the darkness of adversity, you are 169 00:10:12,597 --> 00:10:15,687 Speaker 1: able to see more clearly the radiance of my face. 170 00:10:16,347 --> 00:10:19,847 Speaker 1: Accept the value of problems in this life, considering them 171 00:10:19,927 --> 00:10:23,767 Speaker 1: pure joy. Remember that you have an eternity of trouble-free 172 00:10:23,847 --> 00:10:25,447 Speaker 1: living awaiting you in the heavens. 173 00:10:27,237 --> 00:10:31,717 Speaker 2: To learn more about Francine Rivers, visit francinerivers.com and be 174 00:10:31,797 --> 00:10:34,417 Speaker 2: sure to check out her new book, The Woman Between, 175 00:10:34,877 --> 00:10:38,177 Speaker 2: available at your favorite retailer in February, 2027. Stay tuned 176 00:10:39,517 --> 00:10:48,537 Speaker 2: to Whitney Capp's story after a brief message. Enjoy abundant 177 00:10:48,577 --> 00:10:52,307 Speaker 2: gratitude this fall as you reflect on God's overflowing blessings. 178 00:10:52,987 --> 00:10:56,857 Speaker 2: Jesus Calling, Harvest of Blessings, can help you focus on 179 00:10:56,897 --> 00:11:00,657 Speaker 2: your blessings and cultivate a gratitude mindset, allowing you to 180 00:11:00,717 --> 00:11:04,077 Speaker 2: center your mind more on Jesus and less on stress 181 00:11:04,137 --> 00:11:10,516 Speaker 2: and anxiety. This inspirational full-color devotional includes stunning autumn seasonal photography, 182 00:11:10,917 --> 00:11:14,297 Speaker 2: Bible verses, and words of hope from God's heart to yours, 183 00:11:14,897 --> 00:11:18,937 Speaker 2: and 50 reflections on gratitude, thankfulness, and God's blessings from 184 00:11:19,017 --> 00:11:23,687 Speaker 2: Sarah Young's best-selling, Jesus Calling. This volume is perfect for 185 00:11:23,727 --> 00:11:27,187 Speaker 2: families who want to cultivate a tradition of counting blessings together, 186 00:11:27,587 --> 00:11:30,167 Speaker 2: those who are looking to deepen their experience of trusting God, 187 00:11:30,547 --> 00:11:33,147 Speaker 2: and those who want to walk closely with Jesus and 188 00:11:33,167 --> 00:11:37,407 Speaker 2: begin daily habits of expressing thankfulness. Be inspired to walk 189 00:11:37,467 --> 00:11:40,467 Speaker 2: more closely with Jesus as you focus on Him and 190 00:11:40,507 --> 00:11:43,787 Speaker 2: the blessings He has put in your life. Find Jesus Calling, 191 00:11:44,087 --> 00:11:52,447 Speaker 2: Harvest of Blessings at your favorite retailer. Bible teacher and 192 00:11:52,507 --> 00:11:56,067 Speaker 2: speaker Whitney Capps shares candidly how she and her family 193 00:11:56,287 --> 00:12:00,337 Speaker 2: navigate life with an advanced cancer diagnosis, focusing on living 194 00:12:00,357 --> 00:12:04,457 Speaker 2: in the moment, embracing community, and finding peace amidst uncertainty. 195 00:12:05,937 --> 00:12:07,217 Speaker 3: My name is Whitney Capps. 196 00:12:07,457 --> 00:12:11,147 Speaker 4: I live just outside Atlanta, Georgia with my husband and 197 00:12:11,227 --> 00:12:13,587 Speaker 4: four boys. My dad is a pastor. He's the only 198 00:12:13,647 --> 00:12:16,347 Speaker 4: pastor I've ever known. And we have been fortunate enough 199 00:12:16,387 --> 00:12:19,567 Speaker 4: to live in the same community since I was about four. 200 00:12:19,667 --> 00:12:23,227 Speaker 4: So my kindergarten best friend is still my best friend today. 201 00:12:23,687 --> 00:12:27,107 Speaker 4: We go to church together. We've seen each other through 202 00:12:27,247 --> 00:12:29,537 Speaker 4: every phase of life. And I don't take. 203 00:12:29,377 --> 00:12:32,237 Speaker 3: That for granted. It is rare for a preacher's kid. 204 00:12:32,037 --> 00:12:34,967 Speaker 4: To have roots. And I have deep, deep roots in 205 00:12:35,027 --> 00:12:38,667 Speaker 4: our community. We live in a little town called Covington, Georgia. 206 00:12:39,247 --> 00:12:41,407 Speaker 4: Our church is right next door in a little bedroom 207 00:12:41,447 --> 00:12:45,797 Speaker 4: community called Oxford, Georgia. And so I have a really, 208 00:12:45,917 --> 00:12:51,517 Speaker 4: really blessed perspective where I get to see the fruit 209 00:12:51,677 --> 00:12:55,697 Speaker 4: of relationships over the course of 40 years. Love my 210 00:12:55,737 --> 00:12:59,127 Speaker 4: mom and dad. My parents are still very close. They've 211 00:12:59,147 --> 00:13:01,647 Speaker 4: been instrumental in taking care of me in this season 212 00:13:01,687 --> 00:13:05,007 Speaker 4: of sickness and My in-laws are right down the road. 213 00:13:05,067 --> 00:13:08,367 Speaker 4: They have been champions too. And whatever we needed, they've 214 00:13:08,387 --> 00:13:11,517 Speaker 4: been there for. And so we have an embarrassment of 215 00:13:11,587 --> 00:13:13,257 Speaker 4: riches in terms of community. 216 00:13:13,437 --> 00:13:14,037 Speaker 3: And now the. 217 00:13:14,017 --> 00:13:17,697 Speaker 4: Boys are getting to live in the fruit of that 218 00:13:17,777 --> 00:13:20,637 Speaker 4: because they get to sit under my dad's teaching every Sunday. 219 00:13:20,717 --> 00:13:22,417 Speaker 3: They line up right on. 220 00:13:22,357 --> 00:13:25,877 Speaker 4: The front row with Bibles and notepads open to take notes. 221 00:13:26,037 --> 00:13:29,217 Speaker 3: And that's Not a privilege that I ever get sick 222 00:13:29,257 --> 00:13:29,777 Speaker 3: of seeing. 223 00:13:29,797 --> 00:13:32,857 Speaker 4: It's such a gift to see them invest in a 224 00:13:32,897 --> 00:13:36,407 Speaker 4: local church. Our church has about 60 people, but it's 225 00:13:36,467 --> 00:13:39,627 Speaker 4: a sweet congregation and we love each other deeply. 226 00:13:39,647 --> 00:13:41,967 Speaker 3: The Lord's kindness is not lost on me. 227 00:13:43,287 --> 00:13:45,567 Speaker 4: When God called me to teach, I was actually at 228 00:13:45,607 --> 00:13:49,187 Speaker 4: a pretty big women's event, one of those arena-style events. 229 00:13:49,227 --> 00:13:51,447 Speaker 3: This was back in probably 1996, 1997, somewhere around in there. 230 00:13:55,337 --> 00:13:57,257 Speaker 3: And I waited in line and went. 231 00:13:57,177 --> 00:13:59,497 Speaker 4: Up to this woman who had just done this thing 232 00:13:59,537 --> 00:14:01,386 Speaker 4: that I felt like God was calling me to do. 233 00:14:01,457 --> 00:14:03,987 Speaker 4: And I stood in line and I said, I think 234 00:14:04,027 --> 00:14:05,967 Speaker 4: this is what God wants me to do with my life. 235 00:14:06,027 --> 00:14:08,227 Speaker 4: And she said, well, honey, you don't start here. You've 236 00:14:08,247 --> 00:14:11,327 Speaker 4: got to have a story. And until you have a story, 237 00:14:11,867 --> 00:14:13,667 Speaker 4: there's not going to be much that God can do 238 00:14:13,727 --> 00:14:14,127 Speaker 4: with you. 239 00:14:14,797 --> 00:14:15,517 Speaker 3: I'm a journaler. 240 00:14:15,657 --> 00:14:17,357 Speaker 4: And I went home and I wrote, God, if you 241 00:14:17,417 --> 00:14:20,957 Speaker 4: never give me a story, I'll only tell yours. And 242 00:14:21,037 --> 00:14:23,997 Speaker 4: so for the first 20 years in ministry, I got 243 00:14:24,037 --> 00:14:25,917 Speaker 4: to do that. I got to open the word and 244 00:14:25,977 --> 00:14:29,377 Speaker 4: tell his story. And then about five years ago, he 245 00:14:29,437 --> 00:14:31,197 Speaker 4: chose to give us a story. 246 00:14:30,917 --> 00:14:33,417 Speaker 3: That our family is living out that involves cancer. 247 00:14:34,197 --> 00:14:37,507 Speaker 4: And so I had a story, but I'm really grateful 248 00:14:37,557 --> 00:14:41,637 Speaker 4: that he was kind enough to superintend and go, no, 249 00:14:41,657 --> 00:14:44,057 Speaker 4: you don't have to wait for a story to make 250 00:14:44,097 --> 00:14:48,017 Speaker 4: a difference in ministry. Just being in the Word is enough, 251 00:14:48,537 --> 00:14:52,437 Speaker 4: and I have loved every minute of it. There's no 252 00:14:52,517 --> 00:14:56,597 Speaker 4: doubt that stories are powerful ways to connect with people emotionally. 253 00:14:57,197 --> 00:14:59,847 Speaker 4: I think a story goes a long way in helping 254 00:14:59,887 --> 00:15:03,367 Speaker 4: women go, okay, I identify with this woman. I can 255 00:15:03,487 --> 00:15:06,747 Speaker 4: sit under her teaching because she's lived a life experience 256 00:15:06,787 --> 00:15:07,487 Speaker 4: similar to mine. 257 00:15:07,527 --> 00:15:09,327 Speaker 3: So that's not to diminish story at all. 258 00:15:09,837 --> 00:15:12,017 Speaker 4: Do I think it's necessary for people to have a 259 00:15:12,057 --> 00:15:17,257 Speaker 4: platform and be successful and have opportunities? No, because the 260 00:15:17,297 --> 00:15:21,057 Speaker 4: Lord used a very basic vanilla story like mine for 261 00:15:21,057 --> 00:15:24,727 Speaker 4: 20 years, and I'm very grateful. But there is something 262 00:15:24,767 --> 00:15:27,887 Speaker 4: that happens, and I've noticed it over the last five years. 263 00:15:28,467 --> 00:15:31,747 Speaker 4: Even talking about my cancer story, it opens up doors 264 00:15:31,807 --> 00:15:36,097 Speaker 4: for women just to connect heart to heart, particularly for women. 265 00:15:36,217 --> 00:15:39,837 Speaker 4: I think that's a way that we find common ground 266 00:15:39,937 --> 00:15:42,477 Speaker 4: and kind of let the walls drop a little bit. 267 00:15:43,137 --> 00:15:46,337 Speaker 3: I have lost my hair. My weight has fluctuated. 268 00:15:46,417 --> 00:15:49,017 Speaker 4: And I take my wig off on stage so that 269 00:15:49,057 --> 00:15:52,807 Speaker 4: people see the authentic part of I'm not on the 270 00:15:52,867 --> 00:15:56,027 Speaker 4: glorious other side of a story that's neatly buttoned up. 271 00:15:56,147 --> 00:15:57,307 Speaker 3: I'm in the messy middle. 272 00:15:57,987 --> 00:16:00,247 Speaker 4: And I think the Lord has used that to have 273 00:16:00,387 --> 00:16:04,217 Speaker 4: women connect with me in maybe a more profound way 274 00:16:04,297 --> 00:16:06,377 Speaker 4: because I They empathize. 275 00:16:06,417 --> 00:16:07,397 Speaker 3: Their story may not. 276 00:16:07,337 --> 00:16:07,857 Speaker 1: Be like mine. 277 00:16:07,877 --> 00:16:10,537 Speaker 4: And I say often, I do think we have this 278 00:16:10,617 --> 00:16:13,997 Speaker 4: thing that we do in the church where we compare pain. Well, 279 00:16:14,037 --> 00:16:17,357 Speaker 4: mine's not as bad as fill in the blank. And 280 00:16:17,397 --> 00:16:19,717 Speaker 4: I don't think that serves the body. I think we 281 00:16:19,757 --> 00:16:22,677 Speaker 4: should show up with our pain because whatever story we've 282 00:16:22,717 --> 00:16:25,467 Speaker 4: been asked to steward can be heavy. 283 00:16:26,087 --> 00:16:28,127 Speaker 3: It can be hard and it shouldn't. 284 00:16:27,847 --> 00:16:31,497 Speaker 4: Be compared to somebody else's heart. Whatever we've been asked 285 00:16:31,537 --> 00:16:35,497 Speaker 4: to steward, those are stories that are worth talking about 286 00:16:35,577 --> 00:16:38,077 Speaker 4: in the church. But I think women sometimes think, well, 287 00:16:38,117 --> 00:16:41,217 Speaker 4: it's not as bad as fill in the blank. And 288 00:16:41,257 --> 00:16:44,867 Speaker 4: so we sit siloed and to ourselves. And I think 289 00:16:44,947 --> 00:16:48,627 Speaker 4: if story can help pull women out of those silos, 290 00:16:49,047 --> 00:16:56,337 Speaker 4: that's a beautiful place where community begins to happen. I 291 00:16:56,377 --> 00:17:00,287 Speaker 4: have small bowel adenocarcinoma. It has spread to my liver 292 00:17:00,367 --> 00:17:04,227 Speaker 4: and my lungs. There's only so much that we can do. 293 00:17:04,587 --> 00:17:07,817 Speaker 4: And I've followed the doctor's protocols and we've done all 294 00:17:07,877 --> 00:17:11,857 Speaker 4: kinds of unique homeopathic things. And so we really have 295 00:17:11,897 --> 00:17:14,716 Speaker 4: followed every avenue that the Lord gave. 296 00:17:14,537 --> 00:17:18,417 Speaker 3: Us as an option. But I think the thing that has. 297 00:17:18,347 --> 00:17:21,107 Speaker 4: Built my confidence and the reason I can say I'm 298 00:17:21,167 --> 00:17:25,347 Speaker 4: more sure today is He has been the gift of grace. 299 00:17:25,447 --> 00:17:28,777 Speaker 3: You know, I thought grace was the stamina to make it. 300 00:17:28,897 --> 00:17:31,457 Speaker 4: I thought it was the perseverance and grit to do 301 00:17:31,497 --> 00:17:34,617 Speaker 4: the next thing. It was the comfort or ease of 302 00:17:34,717 --> 00:17:38,517 Speaker 4: seasons of tranquility, which we have had a little bit 303 00:17:38,627 --> 00:17:41,227 Speaker 4: in between here and there where my cancer was kind 304 00:17:41,287 --> 00:17:44,487 Speaker 4: of beaten back and I got to take little breaks 305 00:17:44,547 --> 00:17:47,887 Speaker 4: here and there. But the thing that I've discovered more 306 00:17:47,947 --> 00:17:50,647 Speaker 4: than any of those gifts of grace is that He 307 00:17:50,747 --> 00:17:54,647 Speaker 4: is the chief gift of grace. His presence is is 308 00:17:54,707 --> 00:17:56,807 Speaker 4: the thing that I want more than anything else. And 309 00:17:56,887 --> 00:17:59,847 Speaker 4: His presence is the only thing that gives me any 310 00:17:59,987 --> 00:18:01,047 Speaker 4: sense of control. 311 00:18:01,067 --> 00:18:03,367 Speaker 3: And I don't control the Lord, right? 312 00:18:03,787 --> 00:18:07,527 Speaker 4: But counting on His presence has been the thing that 313 00:18:07,547 --> 00:18:09,667 Speaker 4: makes me feel like, no, we're going to be okay. 314 00:18:10,167 --> 00:18:12,137 Speaker 3: He's never going to leave us. He's never going to 315 00:18:12,177 --> 00:18:13,617 Speaker 3: forsake us. He is faithful. 316 00:18:14,357 --> 00:18:18,936 Speaker 4: And that's really been the clarion call of this season 317 00:18:18,977 --> 00:18:23,237 Speaker 4: of suffering. I was reading in 2 Corinthians not long ago, 318 00:18:24,457 --> 00:18:27,657 Speaker 4: And I was struck particularly by the passage that talks 319 00:18:27,717 --> 00:18:29,867 Speaker 4: about that we are being made new day by day. 320 00:18:29,887 --> 00:18:33,746 Speaker 4: And I thought that's an interesting perspective for somebody who 321 00:18:33,827 --> 00:18:35,887 Speaker 4: is facing the possibility of dying. 322 00:18:35,907 --> 00:18:37,347 Speaker 3: And I thought. 323 00:18:37,367 --> 00:18:37,706 Speaker 1: You know what? 324 00:18:37,807 --> 00:18:39,887 Speaker 3: I don't think I want to use that language. 325 00:18:40,027 --> 00:18:44,107 Speaker 4: I think I'm actually more alive today than I was yesterday. 326 00:18:44,747 --> 00:18:47,527 Speaker 4: Because the reality is when I see Jesus face to face, 327 00:18:47,627 --> 00:18:49,527 Speaker 4: it will be the most alive I've ever been. 328 00:18:50,227 --> 00:18:52,486 Speaker 3: And I'm one day closer. Now, I don't know if 329 00:18:52,587 --> 00:18:54,347 Speaker 3: that day that I get to see him is three 330 00:18:54,427 --> 00:18:56,977 Speaker 3: months or six months or nine months or six years 331 00:18:57,037 --> 00:18:57,457 Speaker 3: from now. 332 00:18:58,737 --> 00:19:01,797 Speaker 4: But I have chosen to use the language that I 333 00:19:01,857 --> 00:19:04,997 Speaker 4: am being made more alive. Cancer cannot steal one day 334 00:19:05,057 --> 00:19:07,627 Speaker 4: from me. We rest in the sovereign plan of God. 335 00:19:08,327 --> 00:19:12,486 Speaker 4: He knows my final day before I was born. And 336 00:19:12,547 --> 00:19:16,587 Speaker 4: so cancer doesn't have the authority to change God's plan. 337 00:19:16,607 --> 00:19:22,737 Speaker 4: And in his cosmic plan, Grace, I'm more alive today 338 00:19:22,797 --> 00:19:23,857 Speaker 4: than I was yesterday. 339 00:19:23,937 --> 00:19:25,637 Speaker 3: And so the boys and I and. 340 00:19:25,597 --> 00:19:29,097 Speaker 4: Chad, we've talked about not using language that mom is dying. 341 00:19:29,277 --> 00:19:33,657 Speaker 3: Mom is being made more alive. And maybe it's semantics, 342 00:19:33,717 --> 00:19:34,277 Speaker 3: but it's one. 343 00:19:34,197 --> 00:19:36,917 Speaker 4: Of those things that gives me great comfort just to 344 00:19:37,057 --> 00:19:40,117 Speaker 4: change the language of how I talk about this season 345 00:19:40,157 --> 00:19:43,347 Speaker 4: of suffering and what my final days might look like. 346 00:19:43,887 --> 00:19:47,787 Speaker 4: My mortality is very loud on an everyday basis, but 347 00:19:47,847 --> 00:19:48,696 Speaker 4: I wouldn't trade it. 348 00:19:48,847 --> 00:19:49,726 Speaker 3: I know him better. 349 00:19:49,747 --> 00:19:53,987 Speaker 4: I am more confident in the things that I have 350 00:19:54,047 --> 00:19:54,867 Speaker 4: taught for 25 years. 351 00:19:55,727 --> 00:19:56,857 Speaker 3: Than I have ever been. 352 00:19:56,877 --> 00:20:06,677 Speaker 4: One of the things that I have wrestled with over 353 00:20:06,717 --> 00:20:09,956 Speaker 4: the last five years is that people will say, how 354 00:20:09,997 --> 00:20:12,637 Speaker 4: do people walk through what you're going through and not 355 00:20:12,677 --> 00:20:16,206 Speaker 4: have a relationship with Jesus? I don't know how people 356 00:20:16,267 --> 00:20:19,756 Speaker 4: do it without an eternal perspective. I can't imagine if 357 00:20:20,537 --> 00:20:23,357 Speaker 4: my perspective was only the here and now. That would 358 00:20:23,397 --> 00:20:28,757 Speaker 4: have made the last five years dramatically different. However, there 359 00:20:29,057 --> 00:20:36,157 Speaker 4: is some kind of spiritual disconnect that happens when you 360 00:20:36,327 --> 00:20:39,527 Speaker 4: know and love and worship a God that is all 361 00:20:39,607 --> 00:20:43,827 Speaker 4: sovereign and all powerful. And I know that he can 362 00:20:43,907 --> 00:20:48,137 Speaker 4: heal me. And yet he chooses not to. I don't 363 00:20:48,157 --> 00:20:51,737 Speaker 4: think we talk about that enough. The spiritual kind of 364 00:20:52,337 --> 00:20:55,697 Speaker 4: barrenness of going, I have not doubted for one day 365 00:20:55,737 --> 00:20:58,737 Speaker 4: that God could miraculously heal me. And we pray for 366 00:20:58,777 --> 00:21:02,777 Speaker 4: miraculous healing. But there is a wrestling that happens when 367 00:21:02,857 --> 00:21:06,087 Speaker 4: his answer is no. And so one of the things 368 00:21:06,107 --> 00:21:08,567 Speaker 4: I have leaned into is Romans chapter eight. 369 00:21:08,647 --> 00:21:11,747 Speaker 3: It has been a great comfort to me. We know 370 00:21:11,907 --> 00:21:12,907 Speaker 3: all things work. 371 00:21:12,687 --> 00:21:15,726 Speaker 4: Together for the good of those who love God and 372 00:21:15,767 --> 00:21:19,216 Speaker 4: who are called according to his purpose. We like to 373 00:21:19,297 --> 00:21:22,357 Speaker 4: claim that verse as meaning all kinds of things. But 374 00:21:22,417 --> 00:21:26,577 Speaker 4: the theme of Romans 8 is actually suffering. All the 375 00:21:26,677 --> 00:21:30,237 Speaker 4: things that he's working together for our good are our suffering. 376 00:21:31,127 --> 00:21:33,547 Speaker 4: And I have had to shift what the goodness of 377 00:21:33,607 --> 00:21:35,127 Speaker 4: God looks like to me. 378 00:21:35,307 --> 00:21:38,007 Speaker 3: I can't think about it as ease or comfort. 379 00:21:38,497 --> 00:21:41,317 Speaker 4: But the goodness of God is being with me in 380 00:21:41,357 --> 00:21:42,577 Speaker 4: the days of suffering. 381 00:21:43,117 --> 00:21:46,277 Speaker 3: And so he is with me in the messy middle. 382 00:21:46,817 --> 00:21:49,557 Speaker 4: The all things that he's working together for good are 383 00:21:49,617 --> 00:21:53,747 Speaker 4: not always easy lessons anymore. He leads me beside still waters. 384 00:21:54,107 --> 00:21:56,706 Speaker 4: I'm in the messy middle, but he is working it 385 00:21:56,747 --> 00:21:59,347 Speaker 4: for my good because my good is ultimately to be 386 00:21:59,387 --> 00:22:03,127 Speaker 4: conformed into the image of Christ. That's the highest good 387 00:22:03,167 --> 00:22:07,417 Speaker 4: that we have. I'm grateful for this cancer journey because 388 00:22:07,457 --> 00:22:10,297 Speaker 4: of what I've learned. The thing that I'm trying to 389 00:22:10,397 --> 00:22:13,497 Speaker 4: reconcile in my own heart is we are very. 390 00:22:13,217 --> 00:22:13,936 Speaker 3: Much at peace. 391 00:22:14,857 --> 00:22:18,777 Speaker 4: It is truly the peace that passes all understanding because 392 00:22:18,837 --> 00:22:21,757 Speaker 4: it does not make sense. I can't tell you why 393 00:22:21,897 --> 00:22:25,537 Speaker 4: other than the prayers of faithful Christ followers who are 394 00:22:25,657 --> 00:22:29,476 Speaker 4: interceding on our behalf. We genuinely have the peace that 395 00:22:29,517 --> 00:22:32,977 Speaker 4: passes all understanding. But then every once in a while, 396 00:22:33,067 --> 00:22:34,847 Speaker 4: it kind of starts to creep in. And I think, wait, 397 00:22:34,927 --> 00:22:38,047 Speaker 4: am I at peace or am I in denial? I 398 00:22:38,087 --> 00:22:40,447 Speaker 4: don't know if I'm in denial. I don't really know 399 00:22:40,487 --> 00:22:43,607 Speaker 4: how to parse that out in my spirit. But I 400 00:22:43,707 --> 00:22:46,367 Speaker 4: am in a good place. And I choose to believe 401 00:22:46,407 --> 00:22:49,807 Speaker 4: that it's not denial, that it is acceptance. and the 402 00:22:49,867 --> 00:22:53,667 Speaker 4: peace that passes all understanding, but I'm constantly being pulled 403 00:22:53,727 --> 00:22:59,117 Speaker 4: between those two tensions. I think the thing that I 404 00:22:59,277 --> 00:23:02,297 Speaker 4: am most comforted by and that I've fallen in love 405 00:23:02,337 --> 00:23:04,257 Speaker 4: with Jesus mostly is. 406 00:23:04,117 --> 00:23:08,997 Speaker 3: This aspect of his tenderness. He is tender. 407 00:23:09,017 --> 00:23:14,987 Speaker 4: He's rarely early, but he's never late. His timeliness is 408 00:23:16,777 --> 00:23:19,917 Speaker 4: Nothing gets past him when I need him. He has 409 00:23:19,977 --> 00:23:24,487 Speaker 4: provided exactly what I needed in this season. The tenderness 410 00:23:24,587 --> 00:23:28,167 Speaker 4: and the nearness of God to the brokenhearted. Because listen, 411 00:23:28,307 --> 00:23:30,466 Speaker 4: this has been a hard story. And there have been 412 00:23:30,487 --> 00:23:33,987 Speaker 4: lots of tears shed as I think about the possibility 413 00:23:34,027 --> 00:23:36,437 Speaker 4: of not being here for my boys, not being here 414 00:23:36,477 --> 00:23:39,256 Speaker 4: for my husband. I made the comment to him the 415 00:23:39,297 --> 00:23:42,377 Speaker 4: other day. I know this isn't theologically true, but just 416 00:23:42,417 --> 00:23:44,847 Speaker 4: to be as authentic as I can, I said, I 417 00:23:44,887 --> 00:23:47,167 Speaker 4: don't know that I will know how to enjoy heaven 418 00:23:47,227 --> 00:23:51,247 Speaker 4: without Chad. He's my best friend. Everything we do, we 419 00:23:51,287 --> 00:23:54,857 Speaker 4: do together. And he's my person. And I just think, 420 00:23:55,537 --> 00:23:59,677 Speaker 4: how will I enjoy heaven without my best friend being there? 421 00:23:59,877 --> 00:24:03,337 Speaker 4: And I know that that's not even a theological question 422 00:24:03,377 --> 00:24:05,976 Speaker 4: that needs to be answered because I'll be utterly satisfied 423 00:24:06,017 --> 00:24:06,537 Speaker 4: in Jesus. 424 00:24:06,697 --> 00:24:08,236 Speaker 3: I know that theologically. 425 00:24:09,457 --> 00:24:11,407 Speaker 4: But those are some of the things I wrestle with, 426 00:24:11,667 --> 00:24:14,527 Speaker 4: just the reality of my own mortality and thinking, I 427 00:24:14,567 --> 00:24:17,167 Speaker 4: may see Jesus really soon. 428 00:24:18,227 --> 00:24:20,207 Speaker 3: And I'm grateful for that. 429 00:24:20,267 --> 00:24:22,617 Speaker 4: But there are lots of wrestling moments and lots of 430 00:24:22,717 --> 00:24:28,777 Speaker 4: tears and lots of, God, why? And ultimately, our family 431 00:24:28,817 --> 00:24:31,017 Speaker 4: has chosen to just say, why not us? 432 00:24:31,657 --> 00:24:35,907 Speaker 3: We have been incredibly blessed. So why not us? 433 00:24:36,127 --> 00:24:39,547 Speaker 4: Why not a hard story and What can we do 434 00:24:39,607 --> 00:24:41,667 Speaker 4: with this story that makes much of Jesus? 435 00:24:42,947 --> 00:24:44,547 Speaker 3: I'm working on letters for. 436 00:24:44,467 --> 00:24:46,347 Speaker 4: Them that they'll be able to open at all their 437 00:24:46,387 --> 00:24:47,707 Speaker 4: major life moments. 438 00:24:47,907 --> 00:24:49,627 Speaker 3: That was one of the requests of the boys. He said, 439 00:24:49,667 --> 00:24:51,987 Speaker 3: would you write us letters? And I said, absolutely. 440 00:24:52,767 --> 00:24:55,267 Speaker 4: The thing that I want them to know is that 441 00:24:55,417 --> 00:24:59,016 Speaker 4: God's plans can't be thwarted. You know, when you have 442 00:24:59,597 --> 00:25:02,597 Speaker 4: your whole future ahead of you and it is a 443 00:25:02,657 --> 00:25:06,387 Speaker 4: bright future. One of the things that Ryder said, Ryder 444 00:25:06,467 --> 00:25:08,487 Speaker 4: is our third born. He's the one that's a senior 445 00:25:08,527 --> 00:25:11,757 Speaker 4: in high school. And he said, you know, Mom, I 446 00:25:11,877 --> 00:25:14,517 Speaker 4: feel like God is weaving a tapestry. 447 00:25:15,397 --> 00:25:17,197 Speaker 3: And from heaven, it looks beautiful. 448 00:25:17,377 --> 00:25:20,757 Speaker 4: From an eternal perspective, you can see exactly what he's doing. 449 00:25:21,437 --> 00:25:23,777 Speaker 4: He said, but we're on the underneath side. And all 450 00:25:23,847 --> 00:25:27,447 Speaker 4: I see are knots and messy strings. And I can't 451 00:25:27,507 --> 00:25:30,547 Speaker 4: really make sense of it. But I am believing that 452 00:25:30,587 --> 00:25:33,187 Speaker 4: when we get to heaven, I'll see the big picture. 453 00:25:34,167 --> 00:25:38,477 Speaker 4: So to have your kid have that kind of eternal perspective, 454 00:25:39,637 --> 00:25:41,497 Speaker 4: that's the thing I hope I leave them with. 455 00:25:41,857 --> 00:25:43,977 Speaker 3: You know, I can't ask for much more than that, 456 00:25:44,057 --> 00:25:44,417 Speaker 3: can I? 457 00:25:45,097 --> 00:25:48,037 Speaker 4: To have a kid that is saying, there's an eternal 458 00:25:48,137 --> 00:25:49,077 Speaker 4: vision here that. 459 00:25:49,017 --> 00:25:50,697 Speaker 3: I can't see, and that's okay. 460 00:25:51,477 --> 00:25:55,147 Speaker 4: To be okay with seeing the messy backside until we 461 00:25:55,177 --> 00:26:01,686 Speaker 4: get to heaven and can see face to face. It 462 00:26:01,767 --> 00:26:04,807 Speaker 4: is the church thing to say. But I'm not going 463 00:26:04,827 --> 00:26:08,147 Speaker 4: to not say it because it is also true. Nothing 464 00:26:08,227 --> 00:26:12,187 Speaker 4: comforts like the Word of God. And opening His Word 465 00:26:12,337 --> 00:26:16,717 Speaker 4: is the balm that my soul needs most days. I'm 466 00:26:16,797 --> 00:26:19,917 Speaker 4: grateful for the Psalms of lament. I think it's so 467 00:26:20,037 --> 00:26:23,757 Speaker 4: kind of our God to allow us lament that He 468 00:26:23,817 --> 00:26:26,956 Speaker 4: doesn't expect us to hide our pain from Him. And 469 00:26:27,017 --> 00:26:31,327 Speaker 4: we have passages upon passages in the Psalms where the 470 00:26:31,367 --> 00:26:35,967 Speaker 4: psalmist or David lamented And I find great comfort in. 471 00:26:35,907 --> 00:26:40,747 Speaker 3: That, that he's not offended by our sorrow or our. 472 00:26:40,707 --> 00:26:44,337 Speaker 4: Pain, that he entered into it in the person of 473 00:26:44,417 --> 00:26:49,017 Speaker 4: Jesus Christ. But even before the incarnate Christ, he allowed 474 00:26:49,097 --> 00:26:53,117 Speaker 4: his people the space for our souls to cry out. 475 00:26:53,297 --> 00:26:57,067 Speaker 4: He invites our lament to be a safe place for 476 00:26:57,267 --> 00:26:59,227 Speaker 4: us to cry out to him. 477 00:26:59,687 --> 00:27:01,686 Speaker 3: And I find that hope in the scriptures. 478 00:27:04,247 --> 00:27:07,857 Speaker 2: Only days following this recording, Whitney passed away peacefully in 479 00:27:07,897 --> 00:27:11,437 Speaker 2: the presence of her family on October 2nd. For additional 480 00:27:11,477 --> 00:27:14,657 Speaker 2: details regarding Whitney's life and ministry or to send prayers 481 00:27:14,697 --> 00:27:19,847 Speaker 2: and condolences to her family, please visit WhitneyCapps.com. If you'd 482 00:27:19,867 --> 00:27:22,087 Speaker 2: like to hear more stories about the comfort of lament, 483 00:27:22,447 --> 00:27:30,247 Speaker 2: tune into our interview with Esther Fleece-Allen. Next time on 484 00:27:30,267 --> 00:27:34,157 Speaker 2: the Jesus Calling podcast, NHL hockey players Josiah and Jacob 485 00:27:34,197 --> 00:27:36,537 Speaker 2: Slavin talk about what it's been like to get to 486 00:27:36,577 --> 00:27:39,937 Speaker 2: their dreams of becoming professional hockey players and actually getting 487 00:27:39,957 --> 00:27:41,877 Speaker 2: the chance to compete together on the ice. 488 00:27:43,417 --> 00:27:46,337 Speaker 4: With Jacob being five years older, I've always been trying 489 00:27:46,357 --> 00:27:48,477 Speaker 4: to play catch up and we had been dreaming about 490 00:27:48,517 --> 00:27:49,137 Speaker 4: it since kids. 491 00:27:49,197 --> 00:27:51,216 Speaker 1: As soon as Jacob had the chance to play in 492 00:27:51,237 --> 00:27:52,257 Speaker 1: the NHL, we were. 493 00:27:52,157 --> 00:27:54,307 Speaker 3: Like, one day we want to be able to play together. 494 00:27:54,407 --> 00:27:57,946 Speaker 2: And again, just very thankful that God gave us that moment. 495 00:27:57,967 --> 00:27:59,087 Speaker 1: It was really special. 496 00:28:03,257 --> 00:28:05,747 Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to the Jesus Calling Stories of Faith 497 00:28:05,787 --> 00:28:09,647 Speaker 2: podcast on the Life Audio Network. Every week we'll bring 498 00:28:09,667 --> 00:28:12,227 Speaker 2: you stories from people who share their journeys of faith 499 00:28:12,687 --> 00:28:16,267 Speaker 2: and how prayer and a relationship with God transformed their lives. 500 00:28:17,167 --> 00:28:20,486 Speaker 2: Be sure to follow us on Apple, Spotify, iHeart, or 501 00:28:20,527 --> 00:28:23,827 Speaker 2: wherever you listen to podcasts. And leave us a review 502 00:28:23,887 --> 00:28:28,077 Speaker 2: so others can be inspired weekly by these stories of faith. Finally, 503 00:28:28,417 --> 00:28:31,847 Speaker 2: you can find encouragement, resources, and more on the Jesus 504 00:28:31,887 --> 00:28:34,157 Speaker 2: Calling website at JesusCalling.com.