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Speaker 3: I think that the work that I invite others into,

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Speaker 3: in the work that I've had to do myself, is

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Speaker 3: some sort of detangling from the identity of that first

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Speaker 3: half of life what I thought I needed to chase

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Speaker 3: after That usually comes with a lot of shoulds, and

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Speaker 3: we've got to trace that story car back often too

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Speaker 3: early childhood. Where do those shoulds and aughts come from?

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Speaker 3: And what was the deeper dream? What was the deeper

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Speaker 3: longing the deeper vision.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to the Jesus Calling Podcast. We're joined by author

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Speaker 2: and counselor Chuck de Groat who explores the profound invitation

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Speaker 2: of the second half of life, the season where we're

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Speaker 2: called to move beyond the proving and performing of our

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Speaker 2: younger years. Chuck shares why this transition requires us to

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Speaker 2: tangle our identities and embrace a slower, non microwavable path

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Speaker 2: to healing. He explains how cultivating spaces of safety and

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Speaker 2: reconnection allow us to finally come home to ourselves, to

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Speaker 2: one another, and to God. Later we'll hear from David

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Speaker 2: and Alicia Lloyd. After more than two decades of dedicated

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Speaker 2: service in the country of Haiti, they faced a devastating

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Speaker 2: crisis that upended their world and challenged everything they thought

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Speaker 2: they understood about God's faithfulness. They share the raw, vulnerable

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Speaker 2: journey of navigating profound loss and the unexpected ways they

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Speaker 2: ultimately just covered God anew in the aftermath. Let's begin

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Speaker 2: with Chuck de Growth.

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Speaker 3: I have been actually a pastor and a therapist for

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Speaker 3: more than twenty five years, going on thirty years, which

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Speaker 3: is kind of wild to think about, and that vocation

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Speaker 3: has always been side by side for me. I had

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Speaker 3: the sense that in my childhood that God was near.

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Speaker 3: We went to a Lutheran church that was the first

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Speaker 3: church that we attended, and there was I think what

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Speaker 3: Lutherans call a maternal light or an eternal candle or

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Speaker 3: something like that.

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Speaker 1: The thing never went out. Carl Young talked about.

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Speaker 3: The two halves of life, and it's typically the case

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Speaker 3: in the first half of life that we're chasing, performing

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Speaker 3: ladder climbing. There's some achievable goal that we want, career

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Speaker 3: success or a spouse or wealth or whatever it might be,

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Speaker 3: and we're often wrestling with this invitation of the second

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Speaker 3: half of life, where there is some sense that the

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Speaker 3: rules of the first half of life don't work any longer,

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Speaker 3: and that there's a deeper realization that they're being invited

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Speaker 3: to and that actually shifts them into the territory of

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Speaker 3: longing more often than not, proving, not protecting, but longing

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Speaker 3: more deeply and longing from a more primal place, not

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Speaker 3: just for the boat. You know, that's a direction that

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Speaker 3: some people go in midlife, you know, the new car,

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Speaker 3: the new boat, the new house, but longing for maybe

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Speaker 3: something that was untapped or unmet. For some of my clients,

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Speaker 3: there's some sense of like.

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Speaker 1: I really never wanted to do what I've been doing

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Speaker 1: for the last twenty years, or there are things that

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Speaker 1: I love that have gone unexplored. I've wanted to travel more.

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Speaker 3: I've wanted to love more deeply, but I've been too

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Speaker 3: busy to do it, and I've lost so much along

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Speaker 3: the way. And so the language of homecoming goes hand

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Speaker 3: in hand with the journey of the first and second

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Speaker 3: halves of life, and that return that we're invited to

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Speaker 3: even in the second.

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Speaker 1: Half of life life.

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Speaker 3: I think about my own journey into the second half

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Speaker 3: of life, thinking about it a little bit more intentionally

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Speaker 3: in my forties, but I don't think the grief of

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Speaker 3: it all hit me until my fifties. And that's what

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Speaker 3: I experienced, some sense of all that I had chased,

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Speaker 3: all that i'd grasped after and strive for. Not that

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Speaker 3: it was for naught, not that it was worthless, but

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Speaker 3: there's some sense that Thomas Merton says, you climb the

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Speaker 3: ladder only to realize that you propped.

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Speaker 1: It up against the wrong wall right.

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Speaker 3: And so there's a sense that now in my fifties,

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Speaker 3: there's some grief. And I think that the work that

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Speaker 3: I invite others into and the work that I've had

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Speaker 3: to do myself is some sort of detangling from the

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Speaker 3: identity of that first half of life. What I thought

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Speaker 3: I needed to chase after that usually comes with a

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Speaker 3: lot of shoulds, and we've got to trace that story

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Speaker 3: back off into early childhood.

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Speaker 1: Where do those shoulds and aughts come from?

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Speaker 3: And what was the deeper what was the deeper longing,

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Speaker 3: the deeper vision, And so it's interesting. The poete David

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Speaker 3: White often says that growing older means at some level

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Speaker 3: growing younger, growing into our original innocence.

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Speaker 1: As a child, you walked around barefoot a lot.

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Speaker 3: You learn to put on shoes at some point because

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Speaker 3: that was the thing you were supposed to do. But

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Speaker 3: now you're taking your shoes off more, and you're taking

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Speaker 3: walks with no particular agenda, and you're noticing, noticing things

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Speaker 3: that you didn't have time to notice in the first

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Speaker 3: half of life when you were living according to the

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Speaker 3: rules of busyness and proving and protecting. But with that

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Speaker 3: there are also questions of mortality, like did it mean anything?

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Speaker 1: What have I lost? Who have I hurt along the way?

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Speaker 3: And my busyness and my workoholism, and so in the

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Speaker 3: work that I do with others in my own work.

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Speaker 3: There's often a reckoning that comes in the second half

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Speaker 3: of life that goes on for some time as well.

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Speaker 3: There are often too few guides who've done this work,

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Speaker 3: who can invite us into this second half of life

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Speaker 3: cuarly into our fifties and sixties from a place of

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Speaker 3: real knowing they've really known it and experienced it. There

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Speaker 3: are too few guides, too few sages, too few elders

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Speaker 3: who can walk with us into the second half of life.

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Speaker 1: When we travel to my mom's.

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Speaker 3: Place, one of the things I noticed was that she'd

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Speaker 3: wake up early in the morning, and then I'd wake

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Speaker 3: up not too long after that, and I'd often see

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Speaker 3: her in prayer or reading Jesus Calling. So I began

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Speaker 3: to get curious, and she said, well, Chuck, this is

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Speaker 3: what I do. I wake up every morning. I've got

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Speaker 3: my pictures. Those are pictures of you and.

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Speaker 1: My wife Sarah, my sister Kathy, your husband, Scott.

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Speaker 3: Kids, her late husband Bob, my mom has since passed.

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Speaker 3: And she said, what I do is I look at

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Speaker 3: the pictures and then I read Jesus Calling for that day,

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Speaker 3: and then I pray.

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Speaker 1: And I thought that was so lovely, so beautiful to hear.

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Speaker 3: And I remember when I picked up after she passed,

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Speaker 3: my sister and I went down and I picked up

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Speaker 3: Jesus Calling and three dates for dog Eared, And people

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Speaker 3: can look these up if they want to. July twenty sixth,

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Speaker 3: August twenty sixth, in September twenty two and so my

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Speaker 3: sister and I have returned to those three. I have

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Speaker 3: them pictures of all three of those particular dates. And

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Speaker 3: I think, for one reason or another, there was something

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Speaker 3: about a message of hope, themes of do not fear.

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Speaker 1: God is with you.

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Speaker 3: Particularly for a woman who is in her mid eighties

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Speaker 3: and was experiencing some health problems, there's a palpable sense

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Speaker 3: that she experienced that she was engaging Jesus calling, that

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Speaker 3: even in the midst of her season of life, God

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Speaker 3: is with her. When I think about the language of

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Speaker 3: homecoming or returning to God, I think I first heard

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Speaker 3: language like that from Henry now On back in the

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Speaker 3: mid nineteen nineties as I.

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Speaker 1: Began to encounter his books. There's something about it that

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Speaker 1: struck decord in my heart, if that makes sense, Like

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Speaker 1: there's some sense that we were created for Eden, and

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Speaker 1: that we were living east of Eden, and that there

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Speaker 1: was a journey back home. When I work with clients,

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Speaker 1: when I teach on the human nervous system, what I

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Speaker 1: say is that we've been designed the very center of

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Speaker 1: our body or being, our nervous systems is the ventral

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Speaker 1: veagl system, which is.

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Speaker 3: Actually a place of joy, creativity, safety, connection, union. In

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Speaker 3: one sense, God created us with a physiological connection point,

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Speaker 3: maybe even called a homing beacon that reminds us that

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Speaker 3: our deepest longing is for home, is for connection, is

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Speaker 3: for love.

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Speaker 1: Of course, we.

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Speaker 3: Stray from home into places that are disconnected, sometimes overwhelmed,

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Speaker 3: sometimes frantic. Sometimes we find ourselves in anxious places. And

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Speaker 3: yet the invitation to my clients, the invitation from God

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Speaker 3: to you and to me, is always to return home.

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Speaker 3: This whole idea of disconnection has become so important because

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Speaker 3: we see it. The hinge point in healing what's within

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Speaker 3: is Genesis chapter three, where that good story of God

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Speaker 3: creating us and blessing us, making us in his image,

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Speaker 3: giving us all a creation to play in takes a

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Speaker 3: tragic turn, and Adam and You find themselves east of Eden.

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Speaker 3: In a sense, that sense of exile, that sense of estrangement,

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Speaker 3: that sense of disconnection is primal.

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Speaker 1: It's something that lingers on in us.

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Speaker 3: And what was fascinating to me is I was researching

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Speaker 3: for healing what's within is disconnection is.

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Speaker 1: Really at the core of trauma and the dramatic wound.

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Speaker 3: What people experience is some sense of I don't feel

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Speaker 3: like myself or I'm just not myself anymore, and so

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Speaker 3: there's really a recovery of authenticity, a recovery of their

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Speaker 3: true selves. We were talking about homecoming, recovery, return home

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Speaker 3: to themselves, to God, to each other that people long for.

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Speaker 3: And this is part and parcel of the work that

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Speaker 3: I've been doing for my next book, because that I

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Speaker 3: see as foundational to character change. Reconnection, the kind of

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Speaker 3: reconnection that is born out of safety, the kind of

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Speaker 3: reconnection that is born out of restored relationship, creates the

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Speaker 3: conditions for people to change. One of the things I

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Speaker 3: say is there's no fast track to change, there's no

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Speaker 3: microwavable pathway to change. It's slow and sometimes painful, but

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Speaker 3: it begins with reconnection. And reconnection can only happen when

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Speaker 3: our nervous systems experience a sense of safety, when we

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Speaker 3: know within us and around us that we're at a

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Speaker 3: place where we're truly seen and known and help. That's

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Speaker 3: when we can begin to shift in a new direction.

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Speaker 3: Jesus listens June thirtieth, All Satisfying God, My soul thirsts

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Speaker 3: for You, for.

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Speaker 1: The living God.

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Speaker 3: The deepest yearnings of my heart are for intimacy with you, Lord.

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Speaker 3: I'm thankful you designed me to desire you. I delight

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Speaker 3: in seeking your face. Help me not to feel guilty

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Speaker 3: about taking so much time to be still in your presence.

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Speaker 3: I'm simply responding to the tugs of your spirit within me.

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Speaker 3: You made me in your image, and you hid Heaven

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Speaker 3: in my heart. My longing for you is a form

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Speaker 3: of homesickness, a yearning for my true home in heaven.

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Speaker 3: I realize my journey is different from that of other people.

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Speaker 3: I need courage to persevere. Yet I trust that the

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Speaker 3: path you have called me to travel with you is

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Speaker 3: exquisitely right for me. I found that the more closely

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Speaker 3: I follow your leading, the more fully you develop my gifts.

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Speaker 1: In order to follow you wholeheartedly, I.

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Speaker 3: Need to relinquish my desire to please others. Still, my

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Speaker 3: closeness to You can be a source of blessing to

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Speaker 3: other people as you enable me to reflect your glory

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Speaker 3: in this dark world in your bright, shining name, Jesus Amen.

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Speaker 2: To learn more about Chuck de Grot, visit chuckdigroat dot

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Speaker 2: com and be sure to check out his new book,

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Speaker 2: Who You're Becoming, The slow and courageous work of cultivating

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Speaker 2: character change in a narcissistic age at your favorite retailer.

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Speaker 2: Stay tuned to David and Alicia Lloyd's story after a

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Speaker 2: brief message. These uncertain times bring anxiety and fear, but

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Speaker 2: Jesus Listens Prayers for Every Season gives you daily prayers

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Speaker 2: of comfort with seasonally inspired illustrations. This beautiful book includes

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Speaker 2: prayers that speak to your situation, whether it's a time

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Speaker 2: of stress or strength. Look for Jesus Listens Prayers for

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Speaker 2: Every Season wherever you buy books. After decades of dedicated service, missionaries,

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Speaker 2: David and Alicia Lloyd faced a sudden, life altering event

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Speaker 2: that forced them to rethink everything they believed about God's faithfulness.

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Speaker 2: They share a raw, vulnerable journey of navigating profound, unexpected

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Speaker 2: loss and the difficult, honest questions they had for God

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Speaker 2: in the aftermath.

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Speaker 4: When I was a child and I was attending vacation

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Speaker 4: Bible School as probably around nine years old, and there

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Speaker 4: was a lady there and she had been a missionary,

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Speaker 4: and she started telling them about her life, and I

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Speaker 4: just felt there was more to life than just having fun.

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Speaker 4: I really wanted to be like her, and I wanted

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Speaker 4: to make a difference with my life and possibly even

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Speaker 4: be a missionary.

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Speaker 5: I grew up in a very mission minded church up

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Speaker 5: in Missouri, and we had missionaries that come through all

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Speaker 5: the time speaking on their country that the Lord had

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Speaker 5: laid upon their heart. And a missionary come through that

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Speaker 5: was been in Haiti and was going back to Haiti,

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Speaker 5: and as a young boy, I just felt like the

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Speaker 5: Lord spoke to my heart and said, someday you'll be there.

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Speaker 5: I hit my teenage years and I argued with the

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Speaker 5: call that God had placed upon my life because I

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Speaker 5: had other things I wanted to do. Went to community

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Speaker 5: college for a year. During my first year there, I

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Speaker 5: was just not happy. I knew it wasn't following God's

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Speaker 5: will for my life, and finally surrendered to it and said,

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Speaker 5: all right, God, not my will, but your will.

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Speaker 4: I just remember David was a pretty serious student and

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Speaker 4: he was had presented his called be a missionary in Haiti,

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Speaker 4: and I also had felt that God wanted me to

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Speaker 4: do some missions work. So I knew from the time

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Speaker 4: that we first started dating that if we ended up

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Speaker 4: getting married, that we were going to serve God in

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Speaker 4: Haiti together. Our kids were kidnapped in Haiti in two

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Speaker 4: thousand and five, Daity and Hannah, along with another one

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Speaker 4: of our children from the Children Tom, But God intervened

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Speaker 4: and we were able to get a back twenty one

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Speaker 4: hours later. And I think what hip us continuing to

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Speaker 4: serve God there in Haiti is just that we knew

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Speaker 4: that God had called us there, and we knew that

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Speaker 4: there was a work to be done, and that He

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Speaker 4: would protect us no matter what happened, and he would

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Speaker 4: intervene and help us.

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Speaker 5: Yes, we faced many difficult things over the years, the

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Speaker 5: kidnapping being very difficult, the earthquake tragedy in twenty ten,

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Speaker 5: we just felt like God would always be there and

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Speaker 5: come through the way we wanted him to, and when

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Speaker 5: the tragedy or a dangerous situation would arise. May twenty third,

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Speaker 5: twenty twenty four, a youngest son and myself, Sam and

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Speaker 5: I we had returned from Haiti the night before, got

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Speaker 5: in very late and that spent the day just catching

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Speaker 5: up on some things around the house here. And that

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Speaker 5: afternoon Sam was hungry, so him and his mom went

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Speaker 5: to get dinner. While they were gone, I got the

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Speaker 5: initial call from Jude, our director, and said, Pastor, my

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Speaker 5: wife just called from the church and some of the

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Speaker 5: gangs had grabbed Davy when he left the church and

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Speaker 5: had took him into the mission compound. And he goes,

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Speaker 5: I don't know what's going on. So I said, Jude,

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Speaker 5: please go find out what's going on.

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Speaker 6: Let me know. He went.

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Speaker 5: As he was getting there, the first gang left. They

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Speaker 5: had beat my son and stole our vehicles and a

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Speaker 5: bunch of stuff from the mission. He's my son's phone

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Speaker 5: and Natalie's phone, so Jude let him use their phone.

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Speaker 5: They called me and he said, Dad, they took everything.

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Speaker 6: He said, well, are you okay?

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Speaker 5: And he said, well, I've got blood running down my

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Speaker 5: head from where I.

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Speaker 6: Was beat with the pistol.

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Speaker 5: And I said, well, you need to get to the doctor,

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Speaker 5: and he says, I am going to He said, I'm

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Speaker 5: going to go to the hospital, but I need to

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Speaker 5: get some things straightened out here before I leave.

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Speaker 6: To make sure the.

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Speaker 5: Kids are safe, because they have about forty kids that

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Speaker 5: we were caring for there on the mission compound. And

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Speaker 5: as in the middle of the conversation, he says, Dad,

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Speaker 5: something else is happening.

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Speaker 6: I've got to go.

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Speaker 5: Well, later we found out what that's something else was.

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Speaker 5: It's the next gang had come and they they came

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Speaker 5: into the compound and over the wall, they just were

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Speaker 5: shooting in every direction. The children and the staff all

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Speaker 5: ran to the mission home, and they maybe Natalie and

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Speaker 5: Jude ran to our personal home barricade themselves in there,

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Speaker 5: and then from what I understood, almost immediately after they

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Speaker 5: got in there, the gang turned the guns on the

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Speaker 5: home and just began shooting out all the windows. I

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Speaker 5: did get a call through shortly thereafter that initial call

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Speaker 5: after we hung up, and Jude answered and said, Pastor,

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Speaker 5: it's not good.

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Speaker 6: All the windows are shot out.

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Speaker 5: We're okay, but he said they keep shooting, And David goes, Dad,

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Speaker 5: we need to get some help. Can somebody stop us

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Speaker 5: if we can find somebody, because he says it's getting dark.

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Speaker 5: And I said, Natalie okay, and he goes, yes, we're okay.

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Speaker 5: That was the last I heard. Later we found out,

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Speaker 5: you know, that they had been killed. Initially, for the

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Speaker 5: first few weeks we had to keep asking ourselves, God,

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Speaker 5: where were you. We had prayed so many times before

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Speaker 5: that you would show up in the middle of whatever

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Speaker 5: we're facing, and you had showed up God like we prayed.

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Speaker 6: This time you didn't. So we dealt with that.

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Speaker 5: And then later about three weeks after the funeral, myself,

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Speaker 5: my daughter Natalie's dad, and uncle, we flew to Haiti

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Speaker 5: to just meet with the kids and let them know

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Speaker 5: that they haven't been abandoned their staff, We were still

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Speaker 5: involved in Haiti and was an abandon them or Haiti,

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Speaker 5: And then started hearing stories about Davy and what he

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Speaker 5: was doing during the time of the attack. During the

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Speaker 5: initial attack, he was quoting scripture telling them how they

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Speaker 5: need to give their life to Jesus. The second attack,

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Speaker 5: while he was in the home barricaded in, they said

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Speaker 5: that every time the shooting stopped, they could hear Davy's

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Speaker 5: voice echoing.

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Speaker 6: Out across the property.

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Speaker 5: There was estimated about one hundred gang members that had

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Speaker 5: come into the property or around the property during that time,

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Speaker 5: so we know they all heard the gospel message preached.

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Speaker 5: They said every time he would just continue. His voice

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Speaker 5: would just echo across the property. So God spoke to me.

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Speaker 5: I realized at that moment that God did show up

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Speaker 5: because there was no way in his own human strength

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Speaker 5: that after being beat and what he had been through,

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Speaker 5: that he would be able to, for the next couple

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Speaker 5: hours continue to preach with a strong voice echoing across

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Speaker 5: the property the love of Jesus Christ and how that

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Speaker 5: Jesus had died for these gang members and they needed

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Speaker 5: to ask him into their life.

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Speaker 6: So that helped. Knowing that God.

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Speaker 5: Did show up, just not the way we had prayed,

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Speaker 5: but God was there, you know, being the man of

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Speaker 5: the house and you know, still having two children which

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Speaker 5: they're adults now, my wife and the type that don't

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Speaker 5: want to show weakness and need to be strong for them.

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Speaker 5: So for me, my moments of grief, my moments of

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Speaker 5: breakdown was when I was by myself, which was usually

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Speaker 5: not always the most opportune times.

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Speaker 6: But when I'm.

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Speaker 5: Driving down the road, I get to talk to God

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Speaker 5: and holler and asking why did we need to go

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Speaker 5: through this or what was the purpose of all this?

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Speaker 5: Can you please show us that you haven't abandoned us

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Speaker 5: and just talk to him like God allows.

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Speaker 6: Us to talk to you as our father.

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Speaker 5: And I know one of the times that is probably

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Speaker 5: the most impactful was about six months after the tragedy.

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Speaker 5: I was driving down our four lane highway coming home

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Speaker 5: and then I have to turn off a little two

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Speaker 5: lane road, curvy, hilly, so I turned all the way

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Speaker 5: down the four lane road. I'm just talking to God

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Speaker 5: and saying, you know we're hurting. Do you not know

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Speaker 5: where we're at? Do you not know how much I'm hurting?

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Speaker 5: Can you not give me some.

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Speaker 6: Help, give me some relief, let me see what the

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Speaker 6: purpose of all this tragedy was about.

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Speaker 5: And you know, no autimble voice, nothing that I felt

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Speaker 5: God speak into my heart and just tears running down

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Speaker 5: my eyes. I turned onto the two lane roads, start

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Speaker 5: up the hill around the corner, and on the corner

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Speaker 5: of this little country road there was a mailbox and

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Speaker 5: by the mailbox a fulorescent green neon sign that said

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Speaker 5: God Knows in big black letters. I looked at that

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Speaker 5: as I'm driving by at forty miles an hour and

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Speaker 5: never seen a sign at that mailbox before. I have

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Speaker 5: seen different signs since that time, but it was just

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Speaker 5: God had them placed it there. For me at that

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Speaker 5: moment that I realized that God still does care about us.

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Speaker 5: He does still realize that we're hurting, and we can

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Speaker 5: just call out to Him and we say we need

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Speaker 5: some relief.

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Speaker 6: I've done that many times. God, please show up and

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Speaker 6: help me.

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Speaker 5: And then just the family of God is a big family,

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Speaker 5: and we have great support with other pastors and believers

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Speaker 5: that text and call and pray with us and pray

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Speaker 5: for us. And they special occasions like Friday is coming

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Speaker 5: week will be my son's birthday.

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Speaker 6: He would be twenty six.

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Speaker 7: Initially, I feel like I kind of pushed God away

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Speaker 7: in my grief and I felt like he had just

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Speaker 7: abandoned us and that he didn't care because he let

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Speaker 7: my son die. And I the more I pushed away,

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Speaker 7: the worse I felt. And I just called out to

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Speaker 7: God one morning and said, you know, I need you

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Speaker 7: to help me. And I've just since then, you know,

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Speaker 7: I've continued to just see God every day and sometimes

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Speaker 7: it's just like God, please help me, and He's always

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Speaker 7: been faithful to come by and comfort my heart.

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Speaker 2: To learn more about David and Alicia Lloyd, visit Missions

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Speaker 2: in Haiti dot com and be sure to check out

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Speaker 2: their book Strong to the End, the Simple Service and

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Speaker 2: Sudden Sacrifice of the Martyrs in Haiti at your favorite retailer.

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Speaker 2: If you'd like to hear more stories about finding God's

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Speaker 2: presence in the middle of grief you didn't see coming,

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Speaker 2: check out our interview with Aaron Lee Nelson. Next time

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Speaker 2: on the Jesus Calling podcast, we'll honor the twenty fifth

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Speaker 2: anniversary of nine to eleven with retired US Secret Service

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Speaker 2: agent Darren Kinder, who was inside a tower at the

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Speaker 2: World Trade Center on that faithful day.

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Speaker 6: There was so much destructions.

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Speaker 8: I went down to a knee, nephew, hear that soft

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Speaker 8: still voice and says I'm with you, but I have

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Speaker 8: a plan for you, and you will be taken from

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Speaker 8: this earth.

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Speaker 6: IS's just not today.

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Speaker 1: And I felt the presence.

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Speaker 8: I felt just almost like a grip on my shoulder

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Speaker 8: that said I'm with you.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to the Jesus Calling Stories of Faith

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Speaker 2: podcast on the Life Audio Network. Every week we'll bring

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Speaker 2: you stories from people who share their journeys of faith

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Speaker 2: and how prayer and a relationship with God transformed their lives.

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Speaker 2: Be sure to follow us on Apple, Spotify, iHeart, or

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Speaker 2: wherever you listen to podcasts and leave us a review

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Speaker 2: so others can be inspired weekly by these stories of faith. Finally,

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Speaker 2: you can find encouragement resources and more on the Jesus

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Speaker 2: Calling website at Jesuscalling dot com