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Speaker 1: Hi friend, I'm so glad you're here today. Let's learn

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Speaker 1: how to raise our kids to love God, respect authority,

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Speaker 1: and do what's right. Let's rule less and live more.

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Speaker 1: I'm Arlene Pelicane and this is the Happy Home.

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Speaker 2: Well.

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Speaker 1: I am with my new friend, Sarah Walton, who is

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Speaker 1: an author, a wife, a mom, a speaker. She's got

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Speaker 1: a kid's book, The Long Road Home. She has written

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Speaker 1: books with her husband Jeff, titles like Hope When It Hurts.

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Speaker 1: They have four kids, and now she has a new

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Speaker 1: book that she is a co author on and it

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Speaker 1: is called Jesus Will Meet You There, finding strength and

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Speaker 1: comfort in the Savior who understands.

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Speaker 2: Thanks so much for coming on, Sarah, Thank you so

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Speaker 2: much for having me.

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Speaker 1: So to begin, give us an idea of how many

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Speaker 1: kids you have, if they're boys or girls, and the

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Speaker 1: range of their ages.

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Speaker 2: Sure. Yeah, so we have four kids. Our oldest is

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Speaker 2: actually nineteen in two days. It's really hard to believe,

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Speaker 2: so crazy, it is really crazy. So we're in that

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Speaker 2: that season of oh, how do you parent an adult? Totally?

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Speaker 2: He still lives at home. He just graduated high school

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Speaker 2: this week. So he is our oldest. And then we

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Speaker 2: have two girls that follow him. We have a sixteen

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Speaker 2: year old girl, a fourteen year old girl, and then

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Speaker 2: our youngest are Caboose is a twelve year old boy.

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Speaker 2: So I love it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and you're doing you have like the perfect

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Speaker 1: the sandwich of the girl, girl boy, which exactly, and

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Speaker 1: we are in those similar phrases with the twenty one

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Speaker 1: nineteen sixteen.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so you get it.

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Speaker 1: We're going to go here in a second. We won't

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Speaker 1: get her yet, but I want to do this. You know,

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Speaker 1: many times I'll see a mom and because my kids

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Speaker 1: are older, I'll say, oh.

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Speaker 2: Enjoy it.

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Speaker 1: You know, they're in diapers, they're like spitting up, and

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Speaker 1: I'm like, I'll enjoy it. These are the best years.

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Speaker 1: And the moms are like, this is so like annoying

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Speaker 1: that people are say.

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Speaker 2: True, So we're going to go there.

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Speaker 1: If you're actually not enjoying motherhood, we're going to talk

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Speaker 1: to you. So hang on there. But we're going to

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Speaker 1: talk about the challenges. And there are normal challenges. If

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Speaker 1: you have healthy kids, there are normal challenges. And if

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Speaker 1: you have kids who have chronic illness, they have different things.

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Speaker 1: Maybe they have something learning that's special about them. It

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Speaker 1: is even more challenging. You had something happen to you

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Speaker 1: that you wouldn't I think in a million years even

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Speaker 1: dream up right, Like you would never think like, oh,

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Speaker 1: this is going to be my family story. Tell us

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Speaker 1: about the health conditions and just what has happened with

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Speaker 1: your family.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So there's a lot of layers right, there, always is,

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Speaker 2: but it really began early on. I dealt with a

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Speaker 2: lot of health issues before I actually got married, but

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Speaker 2: didn't really know why. I didn't know what was causing them,

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Speaker 2: but I was always a bit in the background. I

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Speaker 2: just kind of learned to deal with it to some extent.

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Speaker 2: And then we had our oldest. I was fairly young.

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Speaker 2: I was twenty three and really excited to embark on

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Speaker 2: motherhood and about seven weeks in and he spiked a

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Speaker 2: really high fever. Long story short, he was hospitalized. We

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Speaker 2: thought we were going to lose him. They knew he

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Speaker 2: had some severe infection, but they could not figure out

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Speaker 2: what so, I mean, it was one prognosis to the

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Speaker 2: next just worse. Afterwards, we still don't totally know what happened.

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Speaker 2: Lots of strong antibiotics, and about five days later they

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Speaker 2: ended up discharging us and said, well, we don't know

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Speaker 2: what happened. He had some severe infection, but it seems

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Speaker 2: like he is he is getting better at this point.

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Speaker 2: And so we went home and we just we thought, well, Lord,

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Speaker 2: thank you for sparing our son. We kind of thought

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Speaker 2: that was like the biggest testing right from the get go,

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Speaker 2: was putting him on the altar, almost from the very

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Speaker 2: beginning of Lord, would you give our child? Just to

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Speaker 2: take him away? And then here we were. We were

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Speaker 2: so thankful that he had spared his life. But progressively

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Speaker 2: we started to notice a lot of challenges start to

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Speaker 2: come up that you know, it's first time parents. You

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Speaker 2: have no idea what you're doing, you have no idea

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Speaker 2: what to compare to. So we just goodness, we have

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Speaker 2: the most strong old child on the face of the planet.

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Speaker 2: My Lord help us. And you know, as he got older,

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Speaker 2: these challenges just increased and increased, and it progressed into

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Speaker 2: a lot of violence, verbal, physical, very out of control,

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Speaker 2: have normal behaviors that didn't even seem connected to things

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Speaker 2: at times. And so we were doing all the parenting books,

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Speaker 2: the classes, like somebody, give us something that's going to

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Speaker 2: make a difference here, and nothing helped. It just seems like,

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Speaker 2: we have a different situation than anybody I know, and

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Speaker 2: we don't know what to do with this. And so

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Speaker 2: time progressed. We had three more children, and it just

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Speaker 2: intensified as the years grew. It became more of a

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Speaker 2: risk situation at home a lot of times, and so

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Speaker 2: I was on my own a lot. My husband was

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Speaker 2: actually on call for most of these years. He was

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Speaker 2: a trauma consultant, so twenty four seven I couldn't count

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Speaker 2: on him. So here I was a mom feeling sick

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Speaker 2: most of the time. And progressively, each child started to

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Speaker 2: complain of different, different problems, different just discomforts that we'd

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Speaker 2: kind of excuse for different things, you know, joint pain, Oh,

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Speaker 2: they're growing pains, or your hair is really thin and

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Speaker 2: kind of falling out. Maybe we need to get you

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Speaker 2: more nutrients, you know, different things like that. So, you know,

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Speaker 2: over the years, really kind of big picture. Progressively we

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Speaker 2: started to realize there's things going on here that are

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Speaker 2: beyond just typical childhood challenges. I was finally diagnosed with

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Speaker 2: lime disease in twenty fifteen, and they ended up testing

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Speaker 2: each of our children, all of whom tested positive for that,

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Speaker 2: along with other illnesses that had kind of hitched a

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Speaker 2: ride along with it, and you know, we didn't have

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Speaker 2: all the answers we knew, okay, there's there's the piece

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Speaker 2: of the puzzle there. But for our oldest we were

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Speaker 2: very much forced into the psychology world, the psychiatry world,

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Speaker 2: out of desperation, which was we avoided as much as

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Speaker 2: we could. We did diet, we did health, we did

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Speaker 2: everything possible. But it was a matter of keeping him

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Speaker 2: in our home and so so much of motherhood to

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Speaker 2: me growing up. You know, I would have women say

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Speaker 2: to me, oh, enjoy these years. It's only going to

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Speaker 2: get harder, and I think, Lord, have mercy. I'm not

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Speaker 2: going to survive like It's not what I was like.

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Speaker 2: I'm barely keeping myself and my family alive on a

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Speaker 2: day to day basis. How am I going to do

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Speaker 2: this if it gets harder? And yet you know, the

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Speaker 2: Lord was so faithful to carry me through. Day after

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Speaker 2: day would be spent having to restrain my sweet son

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Speaker 2: to protect him and me and our other kids, as

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Speaker 2: something else would take over his body and it was

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Speaker 2: not him, and then he would weep and say, I

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Speaker 2: don't want to be like this. Why would God make

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Speaker 2: me if he's going to make me like this, So

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Speaker 2: so many deep, deep sorrows that we experienced along with

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Speaker 2: other hurting children, let alone my own health that had

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Speaker 2: to take a back seat because I didn't have the

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Speaker 2: capacity I had to just survive to help care for

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Speaker 2: these children and the circumstances we were given. And so

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Speaker 2: the lad life's been so kind.

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Speaker 1: But it's like a million questions right now. So my

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Speaker 1: first so many questions when you are in this situation,

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Speaker 1: what's like a little thing you did to rest yourself?

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Speaker 1: So for the mom who's really like in the weeds

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Speaker 1: right now, what's.

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Speaker 2: Something I did to make that happen? Oh gosh, Well,

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Speaker 2: you know, I didn't have a lot of practical ways

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Speaker 2: to actually like get out of my situation. And so

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Speaker 2: I do think it's amazing how I think God equips

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Speaker 2: us to be able to do what we can in

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Speaker 2: the season we're in and to give us what we

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Speaker 2: need through that. And so one thing I really did

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Speaker 2: as I did everything I could to open my Bible

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Speaker 2: for a little bit each day, even if it felt impossible,

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Speaker 2: even if I had screaming children around me. The other

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Speaker 2: thing that was really a gift to me, I really

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Speaker 2: had to like journal. I had to get my thoughts

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Speaker 2: and my feelings in and I would often just pray

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Speaker 2: them out, but I would journal them because it would

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Speaker 2: It was almost like so much was happening all the time.

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Speaker 2: I needed to be I needed it, needed a place

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Speaker 2: to go, and I didn't have somebody to really, you know,

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Speaker 2: no one was there with me in an adult capacity,

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Speaker 2: and so it was really my survival was to rest

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Speaker 2: in being able to feel like, but God sees me

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Speaker 2: right now, and I'm going to talk to him about it,

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Speaker 2: and I'm going to tell him how awful it feels,

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Speaker 2: and I'm going to ask him to just give me

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Speaker 2: what I need right now. And there were really I

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Speaker 2: think that was what carried me through in many ways.

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Speaker 2: It was an outlet for me to feel like I

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Speaker 2: am heard, I am seen, even though I feel so alone,

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Speaker 2: and goodness, I would warm my cup of coffee up,

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Speaker 2: coffee up, coffee up like ten times if I had to,

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Speaker 2: I was going to have some small joy, you know,

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Speaker 2: Like there were just things I wasn't willing to compromise on,

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Speaker 2: like I'm going to sit and have a little coffee

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Speaker 2: if I if it kills me, you know, whatever it

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Speaker 2: was I think I just had to really look for

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Speaker 2: this small like beauty, beautiful things still in there, look

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Speaker 2: for the small good things that I could still sabor

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Speaker 2: and enjoy, because I think when there's so much hard

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Speaker 2: going on, and especially for the mom that's just overwhelmed,

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Speaker 2: it's really hard to see the good in those seasons.

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Speaker 2: And so I think I had to make a practice

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Speaker 2: of stopping to recognize those moments and really hold on

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Speaker 2: to them, that these are moments that matter. They don't

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Speaker 2: feel big right now, they feel small in the grand

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Speaker 2: scheme of things, But as I look back, I actually

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Speaker 2: remember those sweet moments more than all the hard because

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Speaker 2: they carried so much weight because of everything it was within.

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Speaker 1: You know, Okay, I feel like we need to We

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Speaker 1: would listen to that sentence over and over and over again.

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Speaker 2: Right now you have the hard, but the sweet is

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Speaker 2: actually what.

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Speaker 1: You remember, Yeah, because it's in such contrast to everything else.

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Speaker 1: Talk to the parent who's disappointed that just you know,

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Speaker 1: got that diagnosis that is like, why didn't I get.

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Speaker 2: That easy child? Why did I get this child? How

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Speaker 2: did you not become bitter in that disappointment? Well, I'll

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Speaker 2: be honest, I had a lot of shifting emotions. I

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Speaker 2: think we're human, right, so we're going to have a

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Speaker 2: really wide range of emotions. And I think it's important

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Speaker 2: for that parent to know it is absolutely okay to

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Speaker 2: grieve that. Yes, even as Christians, I think we think

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Speaker 2: we've I've got to get this stiff upper lip here

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Speaker 2: and be like I. But I trust God and if

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Speaker 2: he's allowing it, and there is truth in that. But

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Speaker 2: even God grieves the brokenness of this world and the

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Speaker 2: brokenness our children experience. And so I had to have

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Speaker 2: kind of a cycle of grief where I would acknowledge

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Speaker 2: this hurts, this is hard, this was not part of

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Speaker 2: the plan, This was not what I expected. And so

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Speaker 2: there's a somewhat of a death to your expectations, right,

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Speaker 2: there's a death to what you hoped for. But I

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Speaker 2: can't stay there, so that mom that's in there, then

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Speaker 2: you have to. It's almost like someone gave this image

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Speaker 2: that instead of being in a cul de sac of grief,

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Speaker 2: you kind of got to find the off ramp then

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Speaker 2: where you say, Okay, but I can know that God

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Speaker 2: is still sovereign over this, He is still has good

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Speaker 2: for me in this. I don't see it yet. I

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Speaker 2: don't understand it yet, but I'm going to take one

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Speaker 2: step at a time and ask Him to help me

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Speaker 2: be faithful in this. And so my encouragement would be

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Speaker 2: not only to allow yourself to have that process, but

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Speaker 2: to rest in the confidence that God is not surprised

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Speaker 2: by this disappointment and by what seems so wrong and

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Speaker 2: what it shouldn't be in your eyes. God has a

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Speaker 2: very good plan in it. He can redeem it. The

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Speaker 2: thing itself is not good, right, Seeing our kids hurt

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Speaker 2: itself is not a good thing. But we serve a

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Speaker 2: big God who can take the most awful thing we experience,

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Speaker 2: and he can say, but I'm still going to turn

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Speaker 2: this around and somehow bring redemption out of it. And

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Speaker 2: I have seen him do that in our kids' lives.

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Speaker 2: Of course, we're still in the middle of the story.

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Speaker 2: But the very things I thought would only be a

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Speaker 2: detriment to my children, I have also seen how He's

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Speaker 2: used it to grow them, to know him, to mature them,

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Speaker 2: to help them see early on, Oh, this world doesn't

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Speaker 2: revolve around me, you know, Like we're not naturally learned.

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Speaker 2: We don't learn that easily. And yet I can see

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Speaker 2: how our kids have had to learn that through having

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Speaker 2: a mom that's sick, and their own disappointments and their

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Speaker 2: own pains they've experienced that this wasn't what they expected either,

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Speaker 2: But it has forced them to kind of wrestle with

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Speaker 2: hard questions early on, which I think has been a

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Speaker 2: blessing to them. It's grown them in compassion. It's grown

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Speaker 2: them in awareness of people that hurt around them. And

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Speaker 2: I wouldn't trade that. I obviously do not want them

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Speaker 2: to hurt. I would remove that in an instant, but

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Speaker 2: what it's given them I wouldn't take that away either,

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Speaker 2: And so that would be my encouragement is don't lose

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Speaker 2: heart because you can only see what seems hard right now.

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Speaker 2: God God can bring good things out of this, and

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Speaker 2: he is not surprised by what you experiencing.

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Speaker 1: There's a line in the book, God took a lot

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Speaker 1: from me, but he gave me so much more in

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Speaker 1: its place.

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Speaker 2: You see that.

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Speaker 1: How do the siblings treat each other in this, because

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Speaker 1: I bet they do. They have like part of them

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Speaker 1: are like, wait, I need Mom's attention, and then maybe

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Speaker 1: the other part is like, oh, look you're having a

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Speaker 1: bad day. I will help you.

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Speaker 2: Yes, it's true. I mean that's human. There's definitely I

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Speaker 2: have moments where I sit back and I'm amazed at

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Speaker 2: my children in terms of how they respond in a

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Speaker 2: grace far above their own. And then I have Pillennia

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Speaker 2: moments where I'm like, oh, Lord, have mercy these children.

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Speaker 2: If any of them turn out semifunctional, it will be

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Speaker 2: a miracle. And so I think, you know, so much

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Speaker 2: of parenting is just like, help me do the best

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Speaker 2: I can with the circumstances you've given me. In goodness,

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Speaker 2: please give me a lot of grace, because Ei, there's

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Speaker 2: so much I don't feel like I can control. And

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Speaker 2: so the sibling dynamic is such an interesting one. You know,

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Speaker 2: there's a lot of complicated factors in our family because

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Speaker 2: our oldest did have a lot of situations that caused

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Speaker 2: a lot of really difficult experiences for our younger kids.

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Speaker 2: And as a parent, that really grieves me. I really

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Speaker 2: have to trust the Lord with a lot of things

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Speaker 2: that feel really heartbreaking to me. And yet I have

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Speaker 2: also been amazed at how He has equipped them to

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Speaker 2: endure circumstances that I don't think any kids should have

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Speaker 2: to endure. And there is moments where they have definitely

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Speaker 2: been harsher towards each other because they want the attention,

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Speaker 2: or they feel like, why is brother getting so much attention?

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Speaker 2: It's not fair he acts that way, and then he

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Speaker 2: takes all a mom and dad's attention. But then I've

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Speaker 2: also seen amazing resilience come out of them that has

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Speaker 2: got to be just God given. And I remember one

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Speaker 2: of our kids saying, it's such an interesting picture of

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Speaker 2: how the sibling dynamics. We had to send our son

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Speaker 2: way for a few months for a handful of months

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Speaker 2: when things kind of got at their worst, and when

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Speaker 2: we arrived home afterwards, one of my daughters was really

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Speaker 2: upset and she looked at us and she said, I'm

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Speaker 2: so angry that you did this to my brother. Why

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Speaker 2: did you take him away? But why didn't you do

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Speaker 2: it sooner? It was such a fascinating thing to see

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Speaker 2: where there's this deep love they have for each other

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Speaker 2: and a sense of protection even though there was hurt

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Speaker 2: involved and there was so much confusion. And yet I

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Speaker 2: look now and I see the amazing grace good has

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Speaker 2: poured over our family to see their relationships together despite everything,

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Speaker 2: they have so many sweet moments together still, and I

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Speaker 2: see them laughing together, and I'm like, you know what,

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Speaker 2: if we hadn't experienced what I'd experienced, I would not

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Speaker 2: appreciate that nearly to the degree that I do. And

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Speaker 2: I've seen him grow them each and being compassionate towards

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Speaker 2: each other in ways at times when I can't even

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Speaker 2: be there, and it is the sweetest thing as a

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Speaker 2: parent to expel sperience.

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Speaker 1: You have a chapter when the miracle doesn't come, you know,

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Speaker 1: so this idea of holding the tug of war, you

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Speaker 1: write about hope and acceptance. So talk us through that

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Speaker 1: when we are expecting God to move because he can,

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Speaker 1: but we're also okay with where we are.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, the only image I can really get

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Speaker 2: because I think this is something we always wrestle with

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Speaker 2: to a degree, Like I don't know that we ever

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Speaker 2: like have arrived where we're like, I found that perfect

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Speaker 2: in between. But I feel like it's almost like I'm

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Speaker 2: always standing on one of those you know, those half

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Speaker 2: exercise balls that you stand on and you kind of

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Speaker 2: are like feeble exactly. Yeah, I feel like that's how

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Speaker 2: it always is. Where you're trying, you start to lean

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Speaker 2: too far forward and you're like, whoa I've got to

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Speaker 2: kind of I've got to equalize here, or then you

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Speaker 2: start tipping a little too far the other way. And

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Speaker 2: I think it's actually been helpful for me to realize

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Speaker 2: I'm not going to find that perfect all the time,

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Speaker 2: all of life is going to be I'm hoping, I'm hoping,

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Speaker 2: I'm hoping for this thing, and then I'm dealing with

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Speaker 2: the disappointment it didn't come, and I'm having to equal

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Speaker 2: you know, like kind of reorient myself again to what

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Speaker 2: did it mean that I was hoping, I was actually

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Speaker 2: maybe hoping I was putting more hope in the answer

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Speaker 2: than I was actually in God himself. Okay, now I

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Speaker 2: have to rearn my heart again. Do I really trust

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Speaker 2: that God knows what is best right now even if

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Speaker 2: it didn't come in the form of what I was

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Speaker 2: praying for. And I have to do that over and

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Speaker 2: over and over again. And I was just telling someone recently,

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Speaker 2: I'm forty two now, and I've been a mom for

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Speaker 2: almost twenty years, and just this year I have felt

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Speaker 2: just glimpses of actual a different depth of peace in

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Speaker 2: the unknown of that. And I just think that is

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Speaker 2: the grace of God to gradually grow us a little

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Speaker 2: bit more. And it often comes through those disappointments where

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Speaker 2: we're learning. We're trying to understand how do I hold

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Speaker 2: on to hope and pray for does desires I have?

356
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Speaker 2: Because He says to come to Him with our desires.

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Speaker 2: It is good for me to continue to pray for

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Speaker 2: my children's healing, to pray for my healing. I should

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Speaker 2: continue to do that. But I've also been at times

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Speaker 2: where hope felt like a setup for disappointment, and I

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Speaker 2: was afraid to hope in the terms of earthly hope.

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Speaker 2: But I think of was that Abraham when he says

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Speaker 2: Abraham hoped against hope, and I just I love that

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Speaker 2: picture because it was like he hoped and it was

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Speaker 2: not just in what God had promised in terms of

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Speaker 2: the situation. He hoped so much in knowing who God

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Speaker 2: was that he could not be unfaithful. So he had

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Speaker 2: no idea how to even practically hope in how that

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Speaker 2: was going to come out circumstantially. But he knew he

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Speaker 2: could hope even though his earthly hope was completely dashed.

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Speaker 2: And so I think that's where we have to continue

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Speaker 2: to wrestle and come back to is Lord help me

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Speaker 2: to grow in understanding what it means to hope ultimately

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Speaker 2: in you, but to not become hopeless in an earthly

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Speaker 2: sense too, and stop even asking. Because he is a

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Speaker 2: good father who desires to grant his children good gifts.

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Speaker 2: Just sometimes they are more in an eternal sense they

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Speaker 2: are in an earthly sense.

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Speaker 1: I'm thinking about a dear friend who is a listener.

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Speaker 1: She has a son with diabetes. How do you, as

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Speaker 1: a mom explain, like, what are some of the conversations

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Speaker 1: you've had with your kids to help them kind of

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Speaker 1: understand this big picture?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, it depends on the kids ages, I

385
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Speaker 2: think a little bit. But we talk openly because I

386
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Speaker 2: think our kids need to learn how to grieve what

387
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Speaker 2: hurts too, and we don't, you know, we try to

388
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Speaker 2: find that balance where we really have to guard our

389
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Speaker 2: hearts against cynicism. I've noticed that temptation in our family like, Okay,

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Speaker 2: of course this would happen to me. Of course that

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Speaker 2: would happen. I think when you deal with a lot

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Speaker 2: of continuing difficulty, it's really easy for that to become

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Speaker 2: a subtle attitude. And so we've had to acknowledge that

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Speaker 2: even to our kids that we've struggled with that, and

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Speaker 2: so I think that is the first step is being

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00:20:24,676 --> 00:20:27,715
Speaker 2: honest and helpful, you know, open as a parent and

397
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Speaker 2: being able to say I don't understand this. I don't

398
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Speaker 2: fully understand why God's allowing this. I struggle with it,

399
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Speaker 2: and I'm asking God, why is he allowing this. I

400
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Speaker 2: think that for our kids to see us being okay

401
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Speaker 2: with wrestling with those things and that God's okay with

402
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Speaker 2: that gives them a permission that it is maybe okay

403
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Speaker 2: that I don't like this, Like I don't have to

404
00:20:50,636 --> 00:20:53,916
Speaker 2: be like just always strong and always saying it's going

405
00:20:53,955 --> 00:20:57,196
Speaker 2: to be fine, but helping them kind of lead them

406
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Speaker 2: to this picture of I really believe God has a

407
00:21:01,916 --> 00:21:06,355
Speaker 2: really good plan for your whole life, and sometimes in

408
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Speaker 2: God's eyes very different than the world's eyes, he has

409
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Speaker 2: something in store for us that can only come through

410
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Speaker 2: hard things, and He's giving you the opportunity to learn

411
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Speaker 2: some of these things at a young age. And as

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Speaker 2: hard as that seems, he really is. He's entrusting something

413
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Speaker 2: really precious to you, but he wants you to come

414
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Speaker 2: to him in it. And we've had to say to

415
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Speaker 2: our kids a lot, I don't have all the answers,

416
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Speaker 2: but I know we can ask God, who is our

417
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Speaker 2: ultimate father, and really right as parents, we are meant

418
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Speaker 2: to be the conduit to our their heavenly Father, and

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Speaker 2: I think it's okay for them to realize we don't

420
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Speaker 2: have all the answers I have. Them always come to

421
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Speaker 2: me and say this hurts. This hurts, and it's an

422
00:21:48,955 --> 00:21:51,316
Speaker 2: awful feeling to feel helpless, to be like, I don't

423
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Speaker 2: know what to tell you. I don't know how to

424
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Speaker 2: fix it. I don't know what to do with it.

425
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Speaker 2: But we can pray about it, and we can ask

426
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Speaker 2: God to help. Even me have the wisdom to know

427
00:21:59,316 --> 00:22:02,876
Speaker 2: how to help you in this. So it's you feel

428
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Speaker 2: chronically weak as a parent, I think, in trying to

429
00:22:07,196 --> 00:22:10,595
Speaker 2: help your kids through these things, but little by little

430
00:22:11,475 --> 00:22:14,795
Speaker 2: it's so gradual. But I really do think God is

431
00:22:14,876 --> 00:22:19,075
Speaker 2: always faithful to help to equip our kids for what

432
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Speaker 2: He gives to them. It helps me to remember he

433
00:22:21,396 --> 00:22:24,275
Speaker 2: loves my children more than I do. Yeah, He's not

434
00:22:24,316 --> 00:22:26,636
Speaker 2: going to leave them hanging just because I don't know

435
00:22:26,676 --> 00:22:28,715
Speaker 2: what to do about this. He has got them, and

436
00:22:28,755 --> 00:22:30,475
Speaker 2: so that's been such a comfort to me.

437
00:22:31,596 --> 00:22:34,116
Speaker 1: You are such a beautiful picture of this grace. You

438
00:22:34,275 --> 00:22:36,475
Speaker 1: think of Hebrews eleven and the heroes of the faith,

439
00:22:36,676 --> 00:22:39,515
Speaker 1: and you are like by faith Sarah and.

440
00:22:41,636 --> 00:22:44,116
Speaker 2: Faith Sarah will lead her.

441
00:22:44,076 --> 00:22:48,475
Speaker 1: Children with grace and with love and with capacity and

442
00:22:48,515 --> 00:22:51,715
Speaker 1: with what she has. And I think anyone listening would say, wow,

443
00:22:51,755 --> 00:22:56,116
Speaker 1: she and their family has a depth we do not have.

444
00:22:56,876 --> 00:23:00,035
Speaker 1: And to realize, like in suffering, you don't invite it,

445
00:23:00,076 --> 00:23:01,876
Speaker 1: you don't want it. It's like, oh, please, let me

446
00:23:01,916 --> 00:23:04,156
Speaker 1: have suffering so I can be deep. But when the

447
00:23:04,275 --> 00:23:08,596
Speaker 1: suffering comes and you respond to it this way, your children, you,

448
00:23:08,596 --> 00:23:11,555
Speaker 1: your husband Jeff, like you are look at what like

449
00:23:11,636 --> 00:23:15,595
Speaker 1: your treasures in heaven are like enormous, And then it's like,

450
00:23:15,715 --> 00:23:18,356
Speaker 1: sometimes we might have a very easy life, like our kids,

451
00:23:18,356 --> 00:23:21,316
Speaker 1: but they're just like playing video games or watching Netflix,

452
00:23:21,475 --> 00:23:23,755
Speaker 1: or like having conflict with their friends. And you realize,

453
00:23:23,796 --> 00:23:28,555
Speaker 1: my goodness, which family actually is living the more joy filled,

454
00:23:28,676 --> 00:23:32,156
Speaker 1: christ filled life. So our idea of what is good

455
00:23:32,955 --> 00:23:34,916
Speaker 1: can sometimes not be right.

456
00:23:35,316 --> 00:23:37,795
Speaker 2: It's true. I often think of the word painful privilege

457
00:23:38,995 --> 00:23:41,635
Speaker 2: that it's so often the things we don't want in

458
00:23:41,676 --> 00:23:45,636
Speaker 2: life end up becoming like, what is the greatest privilege

459
00:23:45,755 --> 00:23:49,515
Speaker 2: to experience and find treasures we wouldn't have expected, and

460
00:23:49,556 --> 00:23:52,075
Speaker 2: it sure hasn't looked pretty. You know, I've been a

461
00:23:52,156 --> 00:23:56,035
Speaker 2: mess so many times, Like it is definitely it is

462
00:23:56,076 --> 00:23:59,355
Speaker 2: God's grace that He's carried us through, but it does.

463
00:23:59,836 --> 00:24:02,916
Speaker 2: I often do look back and I think, what an

464
00:24:03,356 --> 00:24:08,235
Speaker 2: unimaginable privilege it's been to be entrusted with this. Even

465
00:24:08,275 --> 00:24:11,835
Speaker 2: though I wanted to jump ship so many days, I

466
00:24:11,955 --> 00:24:18,156
Speaker 2: still do right, you know, like I'm still human. It's like, oh,

467
00:24:18,156 --> 00:24:21,715
Speaker 2: it's so easy to It's like, no, no, not at all, Lily.

468
00:24:21,836 --> 00:24:25,756
Speaker 2: It does like glimpses little by little that I'm like, oh,

469
00:24:25,796 --> 00:24:29,275
Speaker 2: he is just equipping me for everything, one moment at

470
00:24:29,275 --> 00:24:31,796
Speaker 2: a time, never to where I have a surplus where

471
00:24:31,836 --> 00:24:35,996
Speaker 2: I'm like I got this, but very much like teaching

472
00:24:36,035 --> 00:24:38,235
Speaker 2: me to hold fast to him. And I've really learned

473
00:24:38,235 --> 00:24:41,035
Speaker 2: how much he's ultimately the one that's hold fast to me.

474
00:24:41,596 --> 00:24:44,475
Speaker 2: Otherwise I would have been long gone. So he is

475
00:24:44,515 --> 00:24:47,676
Speaker 2: the faithful one. And it's that is my encouragement really

476
00:24:47,715 --> 00:24:50,436
Speaker 2: to many moms and dads, is just that to trust

477
00:24:50,475 --> 00:24:53,196
Speaker 2: that He will hold you through this. You have one

478
00:24:53,436 --> 00:24:53,836
Speaker 2: line in.

479
00:24:53,755 --> 00:24:55,795
Speaker 1: The book that was so good, like the idea if

480
00:24:55,836 --> 00:25:00,196
Speaker 1: I just knew why I could continue. But it's a fallacy,

481
00:25:00,235 --> 00:25:00,636
Speaker 1: isn't it.

482
00:25:01,955 --> 00:25:06,995
Speaker 2: Yeah? It is, because it's if we if God gave

483
00:25:07,076 --> 00:25:09,636
Speaker 2: us the why every time, if we came to him

484
00:25:09,636 --> 00:25:12,596
Speaker 2: and we said, I don't understand this, Prove to me,

485
00:25:12,796 --> 00:25:16,516
Speaker 2: tell me why this is worth it to you? Why

486
00:25:16,715 --> 00:25:19,196
Speaker 2: is allowing this kind of pain in my life? How

487
00:25:19,275 --> 00:25:22,156
Speaker 2: going to be worth it? In the end? Then every

488
00:25:22,235 --> 00:25:25,555
Speaker 2: single time something happens, we're going to need an explanation.

489
00:25:25,876 --> 00:25:28,196
Speaker 2: When would we ever really learn to trust who God

490
00:25:28,235 --> 00:25:31,636
Speaker 2: is if we're always being given the why? So, really,

491
00:25:31,715 --> 00:25:35,596
Speaker 2: what God is asking us through these times, especially when

492
00:25:35,596 --> 00:25:39,795
Speaker 2: he seems really silent, is it's really forcing our faith

493
00:25:39,876 --> 00:25:42,676
Speaker 2: to go from a head knowledge to a deeply planted

494
00:25:42,715 --> 00:25:46,115
Speaker 2: heart knowledge, heart like belief, where it's kind of like

495
00:25:46,235 --> 00:25:48,356
Speaker 2: job saying I had heard of you by the hearing

496
00:25:48,356 --> 00:25:50,796
Speaker 2: of the ear, but now my eye sees you. Now

497
00:25:50,876 --> 00:25:54,315
Speaker 2: I know. I knew these things in my head, but

498
00:25:54,436 --> 00:25:57,315
Speaker 2: now I've lived them, I've experienced them, I have found

499
00:25:57,396 --> 00:26:00,595
Speaker 2: them to be true because you have shown yourself to

500
00:26:00,596 --> 00:26:02,676
Speaker 2: be faithful even though you didn't give me the answers

501
00:26:02,715 --> 00:26:05,076
Speaker 2: to why. And that is a greater gift to us

502
00:26:05,116 --> 00:26:08,995
Speaker 2: than really knowing why, because otherwise we just constantly need

503
00:26:09,035 --> 00:26:12,636
Speaker 2: more knowledge and information rather than finding the rest and

504
00:26:12,715 --> 00:26:13,555
Speaker 2: really who God is.

505
00:26:14,995 --> 00:26:17,636
Speaker 1: I think of Aladdin and he's on the carpet ride

506
00:26:17,676 --> 00:26:19,795
Speaker 1: and he's holding out his hat to jazzmit, do you

507
00:26:19,836 --> 00:26:20,275
Speaker 1: trust me?

508
00:26:20,436 --> 00:26:20,596
Speaker 2: Right?

509
00:26:20,676 --> 00:26:22,955
Speaker 1: And he gets on is like for the Lord is

510
00:26:23,156 --> 00:26:24,636
Speaker 1: like we're going on the carp ride. We don't know

511
00:26:24,636 --> 00:26:27,315
Speaker 1: where this is gonna go, but okay, we trust you. Yes,

512
00:26:28,235 --> 00:26:30,955
Speaker 1: you have so much joy even in the midst of it.

513
00:26:30,995 --> 00:26:34,275
Speaker 1: What encouragement would you give of that person that's like, well,

514
00:26:34,316 --> 00:26:36,036
Speaker 1: I haven't really smiled in a long time.

515
00:26:37,475 --> 00:26:40,676
Speaker 2: You know. My encouragement would be just to take the

516
00:26:40,715 --> 00:26:46,156
Speaker 2: next step and to look for I think sometimes we're

517
00:26:46,196 --> 00:26:48,995
Speaker 2: looking so much at the big picture and our circumstances

518
00:26:49,035 --> 00:26:52,715
Speaker 2: seem so big that God gets really small. And what

519
00:26:52,916 --> 00:26:55,475
Speaker 2: happens in that is we have a really hard time

520
00:26:55,596 --> 00:26:58,396
Speaker 2: seeing the beauty around us. I mean, I get it.

521
00:26:58,436 --> 00:27:01,916
Speaker 2: I've had seasons where food was tasteless, I had no

522
00:27:02,035 --> 00:27:04,356
Speaker 2: desire for anything I was I didn't want to look

523
00:27:04,396 --> 00:27:06,035
Speaker 2: forward to things because it just felt like it was

524
00:27:06,035 --> 00:27:08,636
Speaker 2: going to be a disappointment. There have been some really

525
00:27:08,755 --> 00:27:13,436
Speaker 2: dark seasons, and I think I've had to really learn

526
00:27:14,116 --> 00:27:18,075
Speaker 2: how to find those small joys and notice them, like

527
00:27:18,396 --> 00:27:21,436
Speaker 2: step out, make myself go outside and have the sun

528
00:27:21,475 --> 00:27:24,036
Speaker 2: beat on my face for five minutes and just soak

529
00:27:24,076 --> 00:27:27,835
Speaker 2: it up and remember the sun rises just as faithfully

530
00:27:27,916 --> 00:27:30,755
Speaker 2: as God says he will meet me in every situation.

531
00:27:31,755 --> 00:27:34,315
Speaker 2: That cup of coffee, warming that up and shitting for

532
00:27:34,356 --> 00:27:37,715
Speaker 2: the two seconds of quiet you have and like soaking

533
00:27:37,755 --> 00:27:41,955
Speaker 2: it in. Seeing a smile on your child's face after

534
00:27:42,156 --> 00:27:44,916
Speaker 2: you know, an hour of tears and then seeing them

535
00:27:44,955 --> 00:27:47,595
Speaker 2: smile or look up and say thank you mommy, and

536
00:27:47,636 --> 00:27:50,035
Speaker 2: you're like roll they said thank you without me telling

537
00:27:50,035 --> 00:27:52,995
Speaker 2: them to. Like just like little I think we just

538
00:27:53,076 --> 00:27:55,715
Speaker 2: have to we have to hone in and look for

539
00:27:55,796 --> 00:27:59,396
Speaker 2: those those little gifts God gives us and remember them.

540
00:27:59,515 --> 00:28:02,875
Speaker 2: Drop down things you are grateful for. If you know

541
00:28:02,955 --> 00:28:06,275
Speaker 2: you have a friend who who called you and showed

542
00:28:06,356 --> 00:28:09,156
Speaker 2: up for you or did something. You know, just reminding

543
00:28:09,196 --> 00:28:13,996
Speaker 2: ourselves we're not alone. We do have God providing for us.

544
00:28:14,116 --> 00:28:16,636
Speaker 2: Look for ways he's providing for us, and then take

545
00:28:16,676 --> 00:28:19,555
Speaker 2: those moments just to stop and look for ways that

546
00:28:19,596 --> 00:28:22,196
Speaker 2: you can kind of like basp in the smile of

547
00:28:22,235 --> 00:28:25,356
Speaker 2: God that he sees you, you know, through the little

548
00:28:25,396 --> 00:28:28,876
Speaker 2: things in his creation, things like that. Sometimes we just

549
00:28:28,955 --> 00:28:30,596
Speaker 2: have to have the eyes to see it in these

550
00:28:30,636 --> 00:28:31,836
Speaker 2: really difficult seasons.

551
00:28:32,955 --> 00:28:35,596
Speaker 1: Help us. If we're the friend of someone going through

552
00:28:35,596 --> 00:28:37,676
Speaker 1: a hard time, what should we say?

553
00:28:37,916 --> 00:28:39,396
Speaker 2: What should we not say?

554
00:28:39,756 --> 00:28:40,036
Speaker 1: Oh?

555
00:28:40,156 --> 00:28:42,436
Speaker 2: Yes, So I was actually just talking about this with

556
00:28:42,476 --> 00:28:46,956
Speaker 2: someone and I was saying, I think three helpful words

557
00:28:47,236 --> 00:28:50,236
Speaker 2: that I think will help us remember are to approach

558
00:28:50,316 --> 00:28:55,236
Speaker 2: it with listen, learn, and lean in. So approach when

559
00:28:55,236 --> 00:28:58,836
Speaker 2: someone is hurting, to approach them with a listening ear.

560
00:28:58,916 --> 00:29:00,756
Speaker 2: I think we often are afraid we're going to say

561
00:29:00,756 --> 00:29:02,716
Speaker 2: the wrong thing, We're going to say it the wrong way.

562
00:29:03,196 --> 00:29:05,916
Speaker 2: Often we do, I mean we all have. But if

563
00:29:05,916 --> 00:29:08,595
Speaker 2: we approach them with just the intent to listen, I

564
00:29:08,636 --> 00:29:11,315
Speaker 2: think we already have started off on the right foot

565
00:29:11,756 --> 00:29:14,276
Speaker 2: being able to give them the space to share where

566
00:29:14,316 --> 00:29:16,916
Speaker 2: are they hurting today, how has the ups and downs been,

567
00:29:17,036 --> 00:29:20,716
Speaker 2: What are they really struggling with right now? Just listening

568
00:29:20,756 --> 00:29:23,196
Speaker 2: and being there with them is a gift, And then learn.

569
00:29:23,996 --> 00:29:27,355
Speaker 2: You think how Jesus interacted with people in the Gospels.

570
00:29:27,716 --> 00:29:30,835
Speaker 2: He was always asking questions, and yet he knew he

571
00:29:30,916 --> 00:29:33,556
Speaker 2: knew everything, He knew exactly what they needed, he knew

572
00:29:33,596 --> 00:29:36,716
Speaker 2: their solution. He had the power to do it. But

573
00:29:36,756 --> 00:29:39,636
Speaker 2: still he approached them and he asked them questions. And

574
00:29:39,676 --> 00:29:42,716
Speaker 2: I think what an example to us that we approach

575
00:29:42,756 --> 00:29:46,556
Speaker 2: those who are hurting and ask them learn, learn about them.

576
00:29:46,596 --> 00:29:48,516
Speaker 2: If we show up and we say I know exactly

577
00:29:48,556 --> 00:29:51,756
Speaker 2: how you feel, we've immediately made it about us. We've

578
00:29:51,796 --> 00:29:53,796
Speaker 2: immediately said to them, I don't need you to tell

579
00:29:53,796 --> 00:29:56,716
Speaker 2: me how you feel, because I already know that's not

580
00:29:56,876 --> 00:29:59,556
Speaker 2: what that person needs in that moment, because likely we

581
00:29:59,636 --> 00:30:01,676
Speaker 2: don't fully know how they feel, even if it's a

582
00:30:01,716 --> 00:30:04,996
Speaker 2: similar experience. So we can approach and say, can you

583
00:30:05,036 --> 00:30:07,996
Speaker 2: tell me, like, how how has this experience been for you?

584
00:30:08,516 --> 00:30:10,716
Speaker 2: How can I pray for you? What are specific things

585
00:30:10,756 --> 00:30:13,436
Speaker 2: that I can pray for you? For being able to

586
00:30:13,596 --> 00:30:16,716
Speaker 2: learn rather than have this posture of trying to solve

587
00:30:17,036 --> 00:30:19,996
Speaker 2: is really such a gift for people and leaning in really,

588
00:30:20,036 --> 00:30:22,996
Speaker 2: I mean really, we are all uncomfortable and suffering. I

589
00:30:22,996 --> 00:30:25,476
Speaker 2: think if we just acknowledge that fact, sitting with a

590
00:30:25,476 --> 00:30:28,876
Speaker 2: friend who's hurting and crying, we feel helpless. It is uncomfortable,

591
00:30:29,316 --> 00:30:31,716
Speaker 2: but there is so many treasures to be found in

592
00:30:31,836 --> 00:30:34,036
Speaker 2: walking with each other through that, and so I think

593
00:30:34,156 --> 00:30:37,556
Speaker 2: just expressing it into a dear friend I'm here. I'm

594
00:30:37,596 --> 00:30:39,836
Speaker 2: not going anywhere. I may not know what to give you,

595
00:30:39,956 --> 00:30:42,236
Speaker 2: i may not know how to fix this, but I'm

596
00:30:42,236 --> 00:30:44,236
Speaker 2: going to be here the second you need me. I'm

597
00:30:44,236 --> 00:30:46,116
Speaker 2: going to be here. I'm gonna be praying for you,

598
00:30:46,876 --> 00:30:49,956
Speaker 2: I'm going to be listening whenever you need to talk.

599
00:30:50,716 --> 00:30:54,635
Speaker 2: And so I think just giving people that awareness that

600
00:30:54,756 --> 00:30:58,916
Speaker 2: we're not afraid of their suffering, it immediately lets down

601
00:30:58,956 --> 00:31:01,516
Speaker 2: their guard and it makes them feel seen. And so

602
00:31:01,636 --> 00:31:04,036
Speaker 2: I think that's really the best way to approach it,

603
00:31:04,876 --> 00:31:06,356
Speaker 2: and it will help us keep from putting our fot

604
00:31:06,396 --> 00:31:08,036
Speaker 2: in our mouth. Exactly.

605
00:31:08,116 --> 00:31:11,036
Speaker 1: That's beautiful, it's memorable. We can do this because we

606
00:31:11,236 --> 00:31:13,635
Speaker 1: just want to fix things and give you a million

607
00:31:13,676 --> 00:31:15,516
Speaker 1: things to try, and you're like, I've already tried all

608
00:31:15,516 --> 00:31:19,996
Speaker 1: those things. Thank you exactly, Sarah. This has been amazing

609
00:31:20,116 --> 00:31:24,156
Speaker 1: by faith. Sarah, thank you much for being with us.

610
00:31:25,036 --> 00:31:27,236
Speaker 1: The book is Jesus will meet you there, and you

611
00:31:27,236 --> 00:31:29,916
Speaker 1: can tell from our conversation Sarah is the kind of

612
00:31:30,036 --> 00:31:32,516
Speaker 1: person who Jesus did meet her.

613
00:31:32,636 --> 00:31:34,756
Speaker 2: And if Jesus met you.

614
00:31:34,476 --> 00:31:37,236
Speaker 1: You're gonna he meets listeners all of us. So it's

615
00:31:37,236 --> 00:31:39,516
Speaker 1: from all of us. How can people find out more

616
00:31:39,596 --> 00:31:42,036
Speaker 1: about you and more about this new book.

617
00:31:42,236 --> 00:31:44,476
Speaker 2: Yeah. Sure, so you can actually find most of the

618
00:31:44,516 --> 00:31:47,075
Speaker 2: information about the book and everything we have. We have

619
00:31:47,156 --> 00:31:50,556
Speaker 2: some videos that we've attached to it and some bonuses

620
00:31:50,956 --> 00:31:52,996
Speaker 2: at Jesus will Meet You there dot com. You can

621
00:31:53,036 --> 00:31:56,115
Speaker 2: really find everything there. And then I'm also I'm on

622
00:31:56,156 --> 00:32:00,996
Speaker 2: Instagram at Sarah P. Walton and then I write on substack.

623
00:32:01,116 --> 00:32:03,636
Speaker 2: You can find that. I think it's deep well of hope.

624
00:32:03,836 --> 00:32:05,676
Speaker 1: And we'll have all those links in the show notes.

625
00:32:05,716 --> 00:32:07,916
Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Sarah, thank you for having me.

626
00:32:07,996 --> 00:32:08,996
Speaker 2: This was such a blessing.

627
00:32:10,876 --> 00:32:14,236
Speaker 1: I hope you've enjoyed today's conversation. I'd love to keep

628
00:32:14,236 --> 00:32:17,916
Speaker 1: in touch beyond this podcast. Click subscribe in the show

629
00:32:17,916 --> 00:32:20,516
Speaker 1: notes and I will give you my latest email to

630
00:32:20,596 --> 00:32:24,436
Speaker 1: keep up on what's happening with technology and kids. And

631
00:32:24,516 --> 00:32:27,355
Speaker 1: maybe you like reading or listening to books. I have

632
00:32:27,436 --> 00:32:30,156
Speaker 1: a lot of books. You could start with The Big Three,

633
00:32:30,596 --> 00:32:35,716
Speaker 1: Making Marriage Easier, Parents Rising, or Screen Kids. A big

634
00:32:35,796 --> 00:32:37,956
Speaker 1: thank you to the team at life Audio for their

635
00:32:37,996 --> 00:32:41,876
Speaker 1: partnership with the Happy Home podcast. Check out lifeaudio dot

636
00:32:41,876 --> 00:32:45,556
Speaker 1: com for dozens of other faith related podcasts about prayer,

637
00:32:45,876 --> 00:32:49,676
Speaker 1: Bible study, and more. Remember you don't have to come

638
00:32:49,716 --> 00:32:52,796
Speaker 1: from a happy home to create one. You two can

639
00:32:52,916 --> 00:32:54,236
Speaker 1: have a happy homes