1 00:00:20,196 --> 00:00:23,236 Speaker 1: Hi friend, I'm so glad you're here today. Let's learn 2 00:00:23,276 --> 00:00:26,916 Speaker 1: how to raise our kids to love God, respect authority, 3 00:00:27,196 --> 00:00:31,036 Speaker 1: and do what's right. Let's scroll less and live more. 4 00:00:31,356 --> 00:00:38,876 Speaker 1: I'm Arlene Pelikane and this is the Happy Home. Well friends, 5 00:00:38,915 --> 00:00:41,356 Speaker 1: I am so excited to be joined by my friend, 6 00:00:41,396 --> 00:00:43,596 Speaker 1: doctor Kathy Cook. And I was trying to think. I 7 00:00:43,596 --> 00:00:46,596 Speaker 1: think you were probably my most frequent guest, in competition 8 00:00:46,635 --> 00:00:51,036 Speaker 1: with doctor Gary Shavin. That's a good company there. 9 00:00:52,156 --> 00:00:53,396 Speaker 2: Welcome Matt with you. 10 00:00:53,876 --> 00:00:56,196 Speaker 1: Yes, thank you, doctor Kathy. If you don't know her, 11 00:00:56,516 --> 00:01:00,276 Speaker 1: she is the founder and CEO of Celebrate Kids. She 12 00:01:00,596 --> 00:01:03,076 Speaker 1: has so many great books, you need to look it up. 13 00:01:03,116 --> 00:01:07,515 Speaker 1: Her last name is spelled Koch, pronounced Cook. Her books 14 00:01:07,556 --> 00:01:11,356 Speaker 1: include eight Great Smarts Raising Gender Confident Kids, which she 15 00:01:11,396 --> 00:01:14,036 Speaker 1: did with doctor Jeff Myers's summit, and now we're talking 16 00:01:14,036 --> 00:01:17,276 Speaker 1: about her newest book. And if you think this book 17 00:01:17,276 --> 00:01:19,076 Speaker 1: doesn't have anything to do with you because you you 18 00:01:19,075 --> 00:01:22,116 Speaker 1: have a three year old, just stay with me because 19 00:01:22,196 --> 00:01:24,756 Speaker 1: it will have something to do with you because you three. 20 00:01:25,515 --> 00:01:28,556 Speaker 1: The book is called Resolve Conflict and Find Peace and 21 00:01:28,636 --> 00:01:34,515 Speaker 1: Hope with Adult Children, So even if your kids are little, 22 00:01:34,676 --> 00:01:38,476 Speaker 1: these practices kind of prepare you for life, don't they, Kathy. 23 00:01:39,435 --> 00:01:42,075 Speaker 2: I appreciate that attitude. People have told me that people 24 00:01:42,116 --> 00:01:44,196 Speaker 2: who have already read it have said it could be preventative, 25 00:01:44,316 --> 00:01:46,235 Speaker 2: that if somebody read it while their children were younger, 26 00:01:46,676 --> 00:01:48,916 Speaker 2: that could begin to understand some things that they could 27 00:01:48,956 --> 00:01:51,356 Speaker 2: do to begin the release process in a healthy way. 28 00:01:52,196 --> 00:01:55,076 Speaker 1: So, for sure that target audience, it's someone like me 29 00:01:55,316 --> 00:01:58,156 Speaker 1: who has a sixteen year old and nineteen year old 30 00:01:58,156 --> 00:02:00,356 Speaker 1: and twenty one year old, and I have found this 31 00:02:00,996 --> 00:02:05,716 Speaker 1: exceedingly helpful. My son Ethan is a college graduate, he 32 00:02:05,836 --> 00:02:08,716 Speaker 1: is working, he is living at home, and then my 33 00:02:08,956 --> 00:02:13,076 Speaker 1: daughter Noel is a college junior away from us at 34 00:02:13,116 --> 00:02:16,916 Speaker 1: college and these tips and just the attitude and the 35 00:02:16,956 --> 00:02:20,996 Speaker 1: adjustments really help both of my kids. Met you, doctor 36 00:02:21,036 --> 00:02:24,036 Speaker 1: Kathy at summit and just thought the world of you 37 00:02:24,316 --> 00:02:25,116 Speaker 1: and your teaching. 38 00:02:25,636 --> 00:02:25,956 Speaker 2: Thank you. 39 00:02:26,036 --> 00:02:29,316 Speaker 1: Well, I want to start here. So we'll always be 40 00:02:29,356 --> 00:02:31,876 Speaker 1: a parent. I mean even if like I'm eighty and 41 00:02:31,916 --> 00:02:34,276 Speaker 1: my kids are fifty, like, I'm still going to be 42 00:02:34,356 --> 00:02:38,275 Speaker 1: a parent. But you talk about parent as a noun 43 00:02:38,716 --> 00:02:42,676 Speaker 1: versus parent as a verb to help us with that. 44 00:02:43,756 --> 00:02:46,555 Speaker 2: Right, You'll always be a parent, Your child will always 45 00:02:46,555 --> 00:02:48,276 Speaker 2: be a child. Those are nouns that will be forever 46 00:02:48,356 --> 00:02:51,596 Speaker 2: two of you. But we can't parent verb unless we're 47 00:02:51,636 --> 00:02:54,156 Speaker 2: invited to do so. And this is insight from our 48 00:02:54,196 --> 00:02:57,476 Speaker 2: good friend, the founder of the Legacy Coalition, Larry Fowler, 49 00:02:57,916 --> 00:03:00,476 Speaker 2: and I think he's right. We don't parents in the 50 00:03:00,516 --> 00:03:02,315 Speaker 2: same way. You know, when kids are younger in your home, 51 00:03:02,636 --> 00:03:04,715 Speaker 2: you're pretty much in control, or you think you are. 52 00:03:04,916 --> 00:03:07,556 Speaker 2: You know, you'd like to be, and you can be 53 00:03:07,716 --> 00:03:11,036 Speaker 2: more demanding if you will more you know, expectations that 54 00:03:11,036 --> 00:03:13,196 Speaker 2: are going to be followed through on. When kids get older, 55 00:03:13,276 --> 00:03:17,876 Speaker 2: then we need to guide them. We guide, coach, influence, help, support, 56 00:03:18,036 --> 00:03:20,476 Speaker 2: you know, other verbs. But we don't parent unless they 57 00:03:20,476 --> 00:03:22,396 Speaker 2: invite us. So if they say, hey, dad, you know, 58 00:03:22,395 --> 00:03:25,396 Speaker 2: how would you have handled this situation? Or mom, you know, 59 00:03:25,436 --> 00:03:28,316 Speaker 2: we're really struggling with the anger from you know, Jessica, 60 00:03:28,316 --> 00:03:30,356 Speaker 2: and we're not sure where it's coming from. Do you 61 00:03:30,356 --> 00:03:33,476 Speaker 2: have any insight? Like boy, every every parent should be 62 00:03:33,516 --> 00:03:35,556 Speaker 2: so honored when that happens. And then of course you're 63 00:03:35,556 --> 00:03:39,036 Speaker 2: given permission to speak. Otherwise you observe and you support, 64 00:03:39,116 --> 00:03:41,836 Speaker 2: and sometimes it's silence, which is really hard. 65 00:03:42,356 --> 00:03:46,076 Speaker 1: Super hard. So a lot of us, as our kids 66 00:03:46,076 --> 00:03:47,796 Speaker 1: grow up We're going to have a really hard time 67 00:03:47,836 --> 00:03:52,356 Speaker 1: with this, Like we do not know the line between oh, 68 00:03:52,556 --> 00:03:56,716 Speaker 1: I have to not parent and not but in and 69 00:03:56,756 --> 00:04:00,196 Speaker 1: not step in. Talk to us about the danger of 70 00:04:00,276 --> 00:04:05,116 Speaker 1: being overly you know, helicoptering during the teen years and 71 00:04:05,196 --> 00:04:07,316 Speaker 1: what that might do to set us up for failure 72 00:04:07,356 --> 00:04:08,236 Speaker 1: in the adult years. 73 00:04:08,596 --> 00:04:11,756 Speaker 2: Yeah, Arleene, I was surprised when doing some reading and 74 00:04:11,796 --> 00:04:14,476 Speaker 2: research and interviewing people. As soon as I found out 75 00:04:14,476 --> 00:04:16,476 Speaker 2: it in totively made sense. But one of the things 76 00:04:16,516 --> 00:04:19,476 Speaker 2: that I discovered was that if you ilko to your 77 00:04:19,556 --> 00:04:22,396 Speaker 2: children when they're preteens and teens, meaning that you're super engaged, 78 00:04:22,396 --> 00:04:24,836 Speaker 2: you're in their business, not just aware of the business. 79 00:04:25,276 --> 00:04:27,556 Speaker 2: And it's good parenting for the most part, right Arleen, 80 00:04:27,636 --> 00:04:30,996 Speaker 2: You've tried to prevent trauma. You're invested, you're doing it 81 00:04:30,996 --> 00:04:32,996 Speaker 2: out of love, Like your motivation is pure for the 82 00:04:32,996 --> 00:04:35,436 Speaker 2: most part. You know, don't spill your mouth. You know, Hey, 83 00:04:35,476 --> 00:04:37,796 Speaker 2: grab your lunch, Hey, soccer trials for Tuesday. Do you 84 00:04:37,796 --> 00:04:39,636 Speaker 2: want to go to the backyard and dribble a little bit? 85 00:04:39,836 --> 00:04:42,316 Speaker 2: You know, those are helpful things. But what we're finding 86 00:04:42,396 --> 00:04:45,676 Speaker 2: is that adult children who are parented that way don't 87 00:04:45,796 --> 00:04:48,796 Speaker 2: know if their mom can ever back away. Mom has 88 00:04:48,836 --> 00:04:51,556 Speaker 2: always been engaged, always been involved. Always if you will 89 00:04:51,596 --> 00:04:54,076 Speaker 2: bend the boss, it's usually the mom. And now they 90 00:04:54,116 --> 00:04:56,996 Speaker 2: want independence, and I think you would agree they need it, 91 00:04:57,236 --> 00:04:59,116 Speaker 2: like they need to learn to fly on their own 92 00:04:59,116 --> 00:05:01,556 Speaker 2: and if they fall down, like we've got to let 93 00:05:01,636 --> 00:05:05,236 Speaker 2: them learn from life experiences. And I know that that's 94 00:05:05,315 --> 00:05:07,556 Speaker 2: hired for parents as well. But if we don't do that, 95 00:05:08,396 --> 00:05:12,156 Speaker 2: what I found definitely across the board are lean. It 96 00:05:12,195 --> 00:05:15,515 Speaker 2: feels disrespectful. You know, it feels like my mom doesn't 97 00:05:15,556 --> 00:05:17,596 Speaker 2: trust me. It feels like my dad doesn't think I 98 00:05:17,636 --> 00:05:20,276 Speaker 2: will ever grow up. And I can't have that message 99 00:05:20,276 --> 00:05:22,636 Speaker 2: in my head. So I'm going to distance myself from 100 00:05:22,676 --> 00:05:25,195 Speaker 2: my parents, which is really sad. And let me remind 101 00:05:25,236 --> 00:05:28,075 Speaker 2: everybody Earlean that when your kids are teenagers, you begin 102 00:05:28,116 --> 00:05:30,595 Speaker 2: the release process. You know, they do learn to drive, 103 00:05:30,676 --> 00:05:32,396 Speaker 2: and you let them run errands without you and the 104 00:05:32,436 --> 00:05:35,876 Speaker 2: passenger seat, you let them take themselves to school. You know, 105 00:05:35,916 --> 00:05:37,996 Speaker 2: the whole life of children that's been growing up. They 106 00:05:38,036 --> 00:05:41,315 Speaker 2: went from you know, a little tricycle close to the 107 00:05:41,315 --> 00:05:43,356 Speaker 2: ground to a two wheeler with training wheels. You take 108 00:05:43,356 --> 00:05:45,796 Speaker 2: the trailing wheels off, they get a higher bike with 109 00:05:47,036 --> 00:05:49,716 Speaker 2: foot brakes and then handbrakes, et cetera. There's always been 110 00:05:50,276 --> 00:05:52,796 Speaker 2: this release. Now we have to go just a little 111 00:05:52,836 --> 00:05:54,996 Speaker 2: bit further, and if we don't, it's disrespectful and they're 112 00:05:54,996 --> 00:05:55,636 Speaker 2: going to back away. 113 00:05:57,236 --> 00:06:00,796 Speaker 1: Sometimes we do it because we idolize our kids and 114 00:06:00,836 --> 00:06:04,036 Speaker 1: we don't even realize it, right that we are making 115 00:06:04,076 --> 00:06:06,996 Speaker 1: more of them. Talk to us, help us see what 116 00:06:07,116 --> 00:06:09,715 Speaker 1: are the warning signs of Wait a minute, I am. 117 00:06:10,315 --> 00:06:13,315 Speaker 1: I'm like, it sounds so good. I'm putting my family 118 00:06:13,396 --> 00:06:15,636 Speaker 1: first and I'm really a great mom or I'm really 119 00:06:15,676 --> 00:06:17,716 Speaker 1: a great dad. And those are good things, and you 120 00:06:17,796 --> 00:06:21,076 Speaker 1: do want to prioritize your kids, for sure, But we 121 00:06:21,156 --> 00:06:25,315 Speaker 1: can then put too much value if talk about like 122 00:06:25,356 --> 00:06:27,996 Speaker 1: if your only role is parent, like if that's the 123 00:06:28,036 --> 00:06:30,315 Speaker 1: only thing you think you're good for, you know, like 124 00:06:30,396 --> 00:06:33,836 Speaker 1: I'm a parent and there's nothing else there, and then 125 00:06:33,956 --> 00:06:36,236 Speaker 1: the danger of idolatry. Right. 126 00:06:36,636 --> 00:06:38,716 Speaker 2: I appreciate you bringing this up. It's hard topic. This 127 00:06:38,836 --> 00:06:42,395 Speaker 2: was a hard book to write because chapter two, as 128 00:06:42,396 --> 00:06:44,236 Speaker 2: you know, the chapter two is, you know, let's take 129 00:06:44,236 --> 00:06:46,436 Speaker 2: a hard look at ourselves. And I don't want my 130 00:06:46,476 --> 00:06:49,036 Speaker 2: readers to skip that chapter. As tempting as it might be, 131 00:06:50,276 --> 00:06:52,916 Speaker 2: you know, idolizing. Let me back up and say that, 132 00:06:53,156 --> 00:06:55,756 Speaker 2: you know, we're all created to worship. We're created to 133 00:06:55,755 --> 00:06:58,436 Speaker 2: worship God. It's one of the reasons He created us. 134 00:06:58,436 --> 00:07:00,036 Speaker 2: And he didn't have to do that, but he created us, 135 00:07:00,596 --> 00:07:04,075 Speaker 2: and he desires our worship. We're created for worship, and 136 00:07:04,076 --> 00:07:06,515 Speaker 2: if we don't worship God, we will worship someone or something. 137 00:07:07,036 --> 00:07:09,476 Speaker 2: And if we worship our kids, they feel the pressure 138 00:07:09,516 --> 00:07:12,276 Speaker 2: of performing for us. I think you can tell if 139 00:07:12,276 --> 00:07:15,556 Speaker 2: you're idolizing your kids in that your mood is controlled 140 00:07:15,556 --> 00:07:17,636 Speaker 2: by them. They have a good day, You have a 141 00:07:17,636 --> 00:07:19,716 Speaker 2: good day. They have a bad day, You have a 142 00:07:19,756 --> 00:07:22,236 Speaker 2: bad day. And again, there's such a fine line, right 143 00:07:22,316 --> 00:07:25,196 Speaker 2: You and I love the family unit, and we love 144 00:07:25,356 --> 00:07:27,356 Speaker 2: moms and we love dads, and we want them to 145 00:07:27,516 --> 00:07:31,196 Speaker 2: pearent strong and long, and yet there's this place where, man, 146 00:07:32,036 --> 00:07:35,636 Speaker 2: I heard far too many adult children tell me I 147 00:07:35,676 --> 00:07:38,836 Speaker 2: can never please my mom. I'm just going to stop trying. 148 00:07:39,796 --> 00:07:42,316 Speaker 2: And they feel like performers. And God doesn't give us 149 00:07:42,396 --> 00:07:45,556 Speaker 2: children so that they can perform to make us feel better. 150 00:07:46,036 --> 00:07:47,996 Speaker 2: It's not about that. That would be how I think 151 00:07:48,036 --> 00:07:51,996 Speaker 2: idolizing is discovered. Are you overly dependent? And I love 152 00:07:52,036 --> 00:07:53,796 Speaker 2: what you just said, Eline, because we're more you know, 153 00:07:54,116 --> 00:07:57,236 Speaker 2: people are listening. You're more than a mom, like I pray. 154 00:07:57,276 --> 00:08:00,116 Speaker 2: You know that if you're married, wife comes before mom 155 00:08:00,796 --> 00:08:03,596 Speaker 2: and husband before dad. And then are you a member 156 00:08:03,636 --> 00:08:05,876 Speaker 2: of a choir? And are you you know, are you 157 00:08:05,956 --> 00:08:08,556 Speaker 2: serving your neighborhood knee surgery in cant garden? And she 158 00:08:08,676 --> 00:08:11,876 Speaker 2: loves the garden, so you chose on a Thursday night 159 00:08:12,356 --> 00:08:14,516 Speaker 2: to go wead her garden as a sign of love 160 00:08:14,596 --> 00:08:17,716 Speaker 2: like praise the Lord. There are so many other things 161 00:08:17,716 --> 00:08:21,556 Speaker 2: you are and other investments to make that it doesn't 162 00:08:21,876 --> 00:08:23,756 Speaker 2: it doesn't take the whole sting away because I know 163 00:08:23,796 --> 00:08:26,276 Speaker 2: that you know family matters, but I think I can 164 00:08:26,316 --> 00:08:26,836 Speaker 2: be helpful. 165 00:08:27,436 --> 00:08:30,756 Speaker 1: Yeah, we're going to get to how to communicate better 166 00:08:30,876 --> 00:08:33,076 Speaker 1: with adult children. So we're going to get there. But 167 00:08:33,196 --> 00:08:37,116 Speaker 1: before we do, your book, Resolve Conflict, Find Peace and 168 00:08:37,156 --> 00:08:42,116 Speaker 1: Hope with Adult Children has all of these like exercises 169 00:08:42,316 --> 00:08:44,356 Speaker 1: and things to do in each chapter I think are 170 00:08:44,396 --> 00:08:47,596 Speaker 1: so beautiful. And on page one seventy one you have 171 00:08:47,716 --> 00:08:52,196 Speaker 1: this daily Isaac on the alter release. So for those 172 00:08:52,316 --> 00:08:54,956 Speaker 1: of us who are struggling and we think like, oh 173 00:08:55,036 --> 00:08:57,276 Speaker 1: my goodness, I don't want my kids to grow up right, 174 00:08:57,356 --> 00:08:58,716 Speaker 1: like you know, you think like I love my kids, 175 00:08:58,716 --> 00:09:00,356 Speaker 1: I don't want them to grow up. But let's say 176 00:09:00,356 --> 00:09:03,836 Speaker 1: they're they're eighteen, and they're in college and whatever, and 177 00:09:03,916 --> 00:09:08,276 Speaker 1: you write, visualize putting your child on the altar, say, Lord, 178 00:09:08,316 --> 00:09:10,716 Speaker 1: I surrender for meb Ethan. He's twenty one, Lord, I 179 00:09:10,756 --> 00:09:14,356 Speaker 1: surrender Ethan to you today, shape his heart and guard 180 00:09:14,596 --> 00:09:18,916 Speaker 1: mine from control, and then end by blessing a life 181 00:09:19,556 --> 00:09:22,596 Speaker 1: to talk about what this practice will do and why 182 00:09:22,596 --> 00:09:23,396 Speaker 1: you wrote about it. 183 00:09:24,596 --> 00:09:28,236 Speaker 2: Thank you for bringing this up. We have to remember 184 00:09:28,476 --> 00:09:31,196 Speaker 2: that God loves our children more than we do or 185 00:09:31,236 --> 00:09:36,796 Speaker 2: ever could. We must remember God isn't surprised. He is 186 00:09:37,396 --> 00:09:40,396 Speaker 2: knowing what's going on. And if you will even allowing 187 00:09:40,476 --> 00:09:43,876 Speaker 2: the things to happen, can we release them to the 188 00:09:43,916 --> 00:09:47,796 Speaker 2: care of God. Can we understand that we're not in charge? 189 00:09:47,876 --> 00:09:50,836 Speaker 2: Can we pray that others will invest in our children? 190 00:09:50,876 --> 00:09:53,596 Speaker 2: You know, for listeners who have children who have walked 191 00:09:53,636 --> 00:09:56,036 Speaker 2: away from the Lord, who have never committed to Christ, 192 00:09:56,396 --> 00:10:00,036 Speaker 2: that's such a hard grief place to be. But you 193 00:10:00,036 --> 00:10:03,716 Speaker 2: know what, you might not be the one that challenges 194 00:10:03,756 --> 00:10:06,396 Speaker 2: them to believe and they say, yes, mom, what if 195 00:10:06,436 --> 00:10:08,196 Speaker 2: we prayed that it was a neighbor, that it was 196 00:10:08,236 --> 00:10:11,236 Speaker 2: a coworker, that it was a sweet mate in a dorm, 197 00:10:11,436 --> 00:10:14,556 Speaker 2: that it was, you know, a soccer coach. That's the one. 198 00:10:14,676 --> 00:10:17,236 Speaker 2: So do we pray that God was surround our kids 199 00:10:17,276 --> 00:10:20,316 Speaker 2: with believers who they might listen to more readily then 200 00:10:20,876 --> 00:10:22,676 Speaker 2: they might listen to us. And I know that that's 201 00:10:22,716 --> 00:10:27,556 Speaker 2: another place for grief, but to willingly give our children 202 00:10:27,556 --> 00:10:31,036 Speaker 2: to God and say, God, I trust you. Oh, He's 203 00:10:31,116 --> 00:10:34,636 Speaker 2: so pleased. Yeah with that. Yeah, And I think that 204 00:10:34,676 --> 00:10:37,396 Speaker 2: what I've heard is that that helps you keep your 205 00:10:37,476 --> 00:10:40,076 Speaker 2: mouth shut when you said, and it helps you pray 206 00:10:40,756 --> 00:10:42,076 Speaker 2: and not get overly involved. 207 00:10:43,116 --> 00:10:45,396 Speaker 1: And guess what that does to our personal faith too. 208 00:10:45,516 --> 00:10:49,236 Speaker 1: Right now we are growing stronger in God because we're like, Lord, 209 00:10:49,276 --> 00:10:51,636 Speaker 1: I trust you, I trust you. You know. Something that's 210 00:10:51,676 --> 00:10:54,276 Speaker 1: been so helpful to me is Moms in Prayer. And 211 00:10:54,316 --> 00:10:56,796 Speaker 1: that is a ministry that has a very simple mission 212 00:10:56,956 --> 00:11:00,476 Speaker 1: of two praying moms for every school and it's in 213 00:11:00,596 --> 00:11:03,316 Speaker 1: every you know, one hundred and forty plus nations. So 214 00:11:03,436 --> 00:11:06,956 Speaker 1: from the time Ethan was in first grade myself, and 215 00:11:06,996 --> 00:11:08,796 Speaker 1: it's just a handful of moms. It might be me 216 00:11:08,916 --> 00:11:12,076 Speaker 1: and like two or three other moms, but these Some 217 00:11:12,116 --> 00:11:14,196 Speaker 1: of these moms have been praying with me for like 218 00:11:14,236 --> 00:11:18,636 Speaker 1: fifteen years. Wow. And when school is in session on Mondays, 219 00:11:18,996 --> 00:11:22,836 Speaker 1: we pray for one hour and that appointment made me. 220 00:11:22,996 --> 00:11:25,076 Speaker 1: Who am not by nature? You think, oh, orlean, she 221 00:11:25,116 --> 00:11:27,916 Speaker 1: does this podcast? You so holy? No, by nature, I 222 00:11:27,916 --> 00:11:31,716 Speaker 1: would not pray like this. But because it's disappointment, and 223 00:11:31,796 --> 00:11:35,316 Speaker 1: because we have released our kids, we've prayed over them 224 00:11:35,396 --> 00:11:38,236 Speaker 1: all these years. So you know, if you're you know 225 00:11:38,276 --> 00:11:41,836 Speaker 1: you're listening, that is a wonderful place to start at 226 00:11:41,876 --> 00:11:44,676 Speaker 1: any age of your kids. We have moms praying for 227 00:11:44,756 --> 00:11:48,076 Speaker 1: college age kids. You know that. To pray for your 228 00:11:48,156 --> 00:11:50,596 Speaker 1: kids and to release them to the Lord and really 229 00:11:50,636 --> 00:11:54,076 Speaker 1: realize I am not in control. That is a huge thing. 230 00:11:54,196 --> 00:11:56,636 Speaker 1: We try to be in control. We manage where are 231 00:11:56,636 --> 00:11:59,636 Speaker 1: they and you know, we're looking at them in real 232 00:11:59,676 --> 00:12:01,836 Speaker 1: time on the phones. Where are they? Did they move, 233 00:12:01,916 --> 00:12:03,556 Speaker 1: did they go to the coffee shop? Did they make 234 00:12:03,596 --> 00:12:05,076 Speaker 1: it back to their dorm? Are they back at it? 235 00:12:05,076 --> 00:12:08,556 Speaker 1: And it's like, no, we need to not do that 236 00:12:09,036 --> 00:12:13,436 Speaker 1: and trust the God who created them is well enough, 237 00:12:13,596 --> 00:12:16,556 Speaker 1: the God who can't sustain them. So that that's part 238 00:12:16,596 --> 00:12:19,756 Speaker 1: of us. You mentioned, you know, the kids walking away 239 00:12:19,756 --> 00:12:22,876 Speaker 1: from faith. This is something you know obviously that has 240 00:12:22,916 --> 00:12:25,236 Speaker 1: been talked about a lot. And you look at these 241 00:12:25,436 --> 00:12:29,116 Speaker 1: very godly parents who raise their kids the same way, 242 00:12:29,556 --> 00:12:31,596 Speaker 1: and maybe two of the kids are following the Lord 243 00:12:31,716 --> 00:12:34,076 Speaker 1: and one of them is a way talk to the 244 00:12:34,276 --> 00:12:39,196 Speaker 1: How do we connect keep that door open with that 245 00:12:39,316 --> 00:12:41,676 Speaker 1: kid who has walked away from the faith? 246 00:12:43,396 --> 00:12:45,956 Speaker 2: I love that you asked it that way. How do 247 00:12:46,516 --> 00:12:48,316 Speaker 2: how do we engage even if they walked away from 248 00:12:48,316 --> 00:12:51,876 Speaker 2: the faith? Let me say this first, lean I talked 249 00:12:51,876 --> 00:12:54,476 Speaker 2: in the book about the what ifs and the if onlies. 250 00:12:55,516 --> 00:12:57,356 Speaker 2: I think we need to be really careful of not 251 00:12:58,156 --> 00:13:01,756 Speaker 2: judging ourselves very harshly. Well, what if I would have 252 00:13:01,796 --> 00:13:03,996 Speaker 2: said that that boyfriend, that boy wasn't a good one 253 00:13:04,036 --> 00:13:06,756 Speaker 2: to date, if only I wouldn't have allowed them to 254 00:13:06,756 --> 00:13:09,516 Speaker 2: go to that school. Oh what if we wouldn't have 255 00:13:09,596 --> 00:13:12,876 Speaker 2: moved across town and made him change schools at that 256 00:13:12,916 --> 00:13:15,876 Speaker 2: particular point in his age. So we look back with 257 00:13:15,916 --> 00:13:20,116 Speaker 2: tremendous regret. Now if regret is real, that and process 258 00:13:20,196 --> 00:13:22,716 Speaker 2: that in grief. There's a whole chapter on grief, because 259 00:13:22,716 --> 00:13:25,556 Speaker 2: we have to grieve the loss of dreams and expectations 260 00:13:25,596 --> 00:13:27,756 Speaker 2: and life choices and all of that, and I think 261 00:13:27,756 --> 00:13:30,996 Speaker 2: if we grieve well and we take responsibility for what 262 00:13:31,116 --> 00:13:34,196 Speaker 2: is ours but not anything else, then I think we 263 00:13:34,276 --> 00:13:38,196 Speaker 2: can stay connected. I would also say that we need 264 00:13:38,236 --> 00:13:41,556 Speaker 2: to look for small growth, right, my friend, I think 265 00:13:41,596 --> 00:13:45,196 Speaker 2: we have a tendency to want an instant transformation, like 266 00:13:45,196 --> 00:13:47,716 Speaker 2: almost an instant, right, or we're going to go from 267 00:13:47,916 --> 00:13:50,156 Speaker 2: you know, this hateful conversation and the next time it's 268 00:13:50,196 --> 00:13:52,756 Speaker 2: going to be glorious, right. But if the next time 269 00:13:52,756 --> 00:13:56,476 Speaker 2: it's less hateful, right. What if we have an expectation 270 00:13:56,596 --> 00:13:58,596 Speaker 2: that is realistic and fair, And what if we looked 271 00:13:58,596 --> 00:14:01,316 Speaker 2: for small growth and celebrated it. Not necessarily that we 272 00:14:01,316 --> 00:14:03,476 Speaker 2: would say, oh, I'm so happy you went to church once. 273 00:14:03,476 --> 00:14:05,596 Speaker 2: Are you going to go again? You know. One of 274 00:14:05,596 --> 00:14:07,676 Speaker 2: the ways that we can stay engaged with our kids 275 00:14:07,716 --> 00:14:09,436 Speaker 2: is we don't have to bring it up all the time. 276 00:14:09,476 --> 00:14:11,516 Speaker 2: They know that we want them to go to church. 277 00:14:12,636 --> 00:14:13,996 Speaker 2: We don't have to bring it up all the time. 278 00:14:14,076 --> 00:14:16,796 Speaker 2: What if I would just suggest that we stay engaged 279 00:14:16,836 --> 00:14:20,036 Speaker 2: when we talk about what we have in common, and 280 00:14:20,076 --> 00:14:22,756 Speaker 2: that what we don't have in common, that's good. What 281 00:14:22,836 --> 00:14:26,636 Speaker 2: if we talked more about you know, work things, because 282 00:14:26,676 --> 00:14:31,076 Speaker 2: both you know, maybe you and your son both love work. 283 00:14:31,796 --> 00:14:34,196 Speaker 2: What if you know that your son or your daughter 284 00:14:34,276 --> 00:14:35,996 Speaker 2: loved going to the zoo when you were kids, and 285 00:14:36,036 --> 00:14:37,876 Speaker 2: now now they have kids of the age that could 286 00:14:37,956 --> 00:14:39,916 Speaker 2: enjoy the zoo. And what if you said, man, I 287 00:14:40,036 --> 00:14:42,236 Speaker 2: drove by the zoo and the parking that was packed, 288 00:14:42,236 --> 00:14:44,036 Speaker 2: and it reminded me of how often we took you 289 00:14:44,036 --> 00:14:45,996 Speaker 2: guys to the zoo and your elephant was the favorite. 290 00:14:46,316 --> 00:14:48,036 Speaker 2: Have you taken your kids to the zoo yet? How 291 00:14:48,036 --> 00:14:50,596 Speaker 2: did that go? So? What if we tried to talk 292 00:14:50,636 --> 00:14:53,916 Speaker 2: about things we also we add to memories, and memories 293 00:14:53,956 --> 00:14:56,516 Speaker 2: are a rich part of a family heritage, So I 294 00:14:56,516 --> 00:14:58,516 Speaker 2: think those things are actually related. You're not gonna be 295 00:14:58,556 --> 00:14:59,916 Speaker 2: able to talk about faith all the time if you 296 00:14:59,916 --> 00:15:02,396 Speaker 2: don't talk about other things that they actually want to 297 00:15:02,436 --> 00:15:02,956 Speaker 2: talk about. 298 00:15:04,436 --> 00:15:07,436 Speaker 1: That's really it's like, look for the common ground instead 299 00:15:07,516 --> 00:15:10,676 Speaker 1: of trying to hammer the truth that you wish that 300 00:15:10,716 --> 00:15:16,356 Speaker 1: they would see. But look for that common ground first. Yeah, 301 00:15:16,396 --> 00:15:18,796 Speaker 1: in communication, you have this thing and this goes with 302 00:15:18,996 --> 00:15:23,596 Speaker 1: what we just said, this conversation of I statements versus 303 00:15:23,796 --> 00:15:28,036 Speaker 1: you statements. You used to go to church, you don't 304 00:15:28,076 --> 00:15:31,156 Speaker 1: go anymore? Why don't you go anymore? Didn't I you know, 305 00:15:31,316 --> 00:15:33,636 Speaker 1: I raised you better? Why don't you go? So give 306 00:15:33,716 --> 00:15:36,916 Speaker 1: us a little primer on using the word I and 307 00:15:37,036 --> 00:15:39,396 Speaker 1: using the word you with our adult kids. 308 00:15:40,276 --> 00:15:42,156 Speaker 2: I loved your tone of voice, I really and that 309 00:15:42,276 --> 00:15:45,636 Speaker 2: was just classic. Ah. So when we use the U statements, 310 00:15:45,636 --> 00:15:48,876 Speaker 2: it sounds judgmental. Right, you know you never go to church, 311 00:15:49,876 --> 00:15:52,676 Speaker 2: and of course I raised you better. This is this 312 00:15:52,716 --> 00:15:55,556 Speaker 2: is no that doesn't need to be said, because now 313 00:15:55,556 --> 00:15:58,996 Speaker 2: it's about you. This isn't about you. This isn't about 314 00:15:59,036 --> 00:16:01,756 Speaker 2: your power, your control, your expectations, or the fact that 315 00:16:01,876 --> 00:16:04,076 Speaker 2: you would feel better if they went to church. We 316 00:16:04,156 --> 00:16:06,636 Speaker 2: can't make this about us. This is about the love 317 00:16:06,676 --> 00:16:09,036 Speaker 2: that we have for our children. So it comes across 318 00:16:09,076 --> 00:16:12,596 Speaker 2: better to say things like I am concerned that you're 319 00:16:12,636 --> 00:16:15,596 Speaker 2: not going to church. Like that's You have a right 320 00:16:15,676 --> 00:16:18,996 Speaker 2: to your emotion everyone listening. You have a right to 321 00:16:19,036 --> 00:16:21,516 Speaker 2: your disappointment. You have a right to some fear, perhaps 322 00:16:22,356 --> 00:16:26,316 Speaker 2: maybe even some right kind of anger. But I am 323 00:16:26,516 --> 00:16:30,196 Speaker 2: disappointed or I feel disappointed because you're not going to church, 324 00:16:31,516 --> 00:16:34,036 Speaker 2: and leave it at that and see what they say. 325 00:16:34,156 --> 00:16:36,636 Speaker 2: You don't have to say I'm scared for you, or 326 00:16:36,716 --> 00:16:39,476 Speaker 2: I don't understand, or I raised you better. You know, 327 00:16:39,516 --> 00:16:42,396 Speaker 2: I feel disappointed when you don't go to church well 328 00:16:42,436 --> 00:16:44,796 Speaker 2: and they say, well, it just doesn't interest me. Well 329 00:16:44,836 --> 00:16:47,436 Speaker 2: have you have you tried a church that might be 330 00:16:47,516 --> 00:16:50,276 Speaker 2: of interest? Or you might say, well it makes me sad. 331 00:16:50,316 --> 00:16:53,876 Speaker 2: In the old days, Jesus was your everything. So I'm 332 00:16:53,916 --> 00:16:56,236 Speaker 2: just curious. Would you be willing to share what's happened? 333 00:16:56,756 --> 00:16:59,036 Speaker 2: Is there anything I could do to help you understand 334 00:17:00,116 --> 00:17:02,436 Speaker 2: what you're not understanding that those kinds of things might work. 335 00:17:02,676 --> 00:17:05,955 Speaker 2: I think I statements I feel are more inviting the 336 00:17:06,036 --> 00:17:10,156 Speaker 2: conversation than you make me. So you know, I am 337 00:17:10,196 --> 00:17:12,756 Speaker 2: worried when you don't let me know where you are. 338 00:17:13,796 --> 00:17:16,156 Speaker 2: Maybe you have a nineteen year old and a new job, 339 00:17:16,236 --> 00:17:18,636 Speaker 2: and maybe he's still living at home and he doesn't 340 00:17:18,676 --> 00:17:21,356 Speaker 2: g unicate well and he's home much later than you 341 00:17:21,396 --> 00:17:23,955 Speaker 2: expected him to be. So I feel worried when you 342 00:17:23,955 --> 00:17:26,916 Speaker 2: don't communicate. It's different from you never tell me where 343 00:17:26,916 --> 00:17:32,156 Speaker 2: you are. That's accusatory and sounds like that's intrusive. So 344 00:17:32,275 --> 00:17:33,995 Speaker 2: that would be just I And you know what I 345 00:17:34,035 --> 00:17:36,156 Speaker 2: see in the book, Karleen practice in front of the 346 00:17:36,156 --> 00:17:39,835 Speaker 2: mirror right right, Like you've been the kind of loving 347 00:17:39,916 --> 00:17:42,555 Speaker 2: parent and your motives are pure here. You know you, 348 00:17:42,556 --> 00:17:44,555 Speaker 2: you you you you. If that's been your mode, it 349 00:17:44,676 --> 00:17:48,716 Speaker 2: been your kind of your conversation starter. I get that. 350 00:17:48,836 --> 00:17:51,196 Speaker 2: And if you believe me and our lean that it 351 00:17:51,196 --> 00:17:53,595 Speaker 2: would be better to try the eye statements, practice in 352 00:17:53,596 --> 00:17:55,836 Speaker 2: front of a mirror and get used to that rhythm. 353 00:17:56,316 --> 00:17:59,396 Speaker 1: And we even talked about tone. Right. So if you're 354 00:17:59,396 --> 00:18:03,836 Speaker 1: in the mirror and you say I'm really worried about 355 00:18:03,876 --> 00:18:06,355 Speaker 1: your health, you don't seem to be sleeping enough, are 356 00:18:06,356 --> 00:18:11,116 Speaker 1: you okay? That feels different than like I am worried 357 00:18:11,156 --> 00:18:13,436 Speaker 1: about your health, Like what in the world are you doing? 358 00:18:13,955 --> 00:18:14,835 Speaker 1: Are you even okay? 359 00:18:14,995 --> 00:18:15,196 Speaker 2: You know? 360 00:18:15,235 --> 00:18:20,436 Speaker 1: So, just even practicing in the mirrors, the Bible is 361 00:18:20,475 --> 00:18:24,355 Speaker 1: always right, the soft answer turns away wrath. So I 362 00:18:24,396 --> 00:18:27,396 Speaker 1: think when we are saying our concerns, the softer we 363 00:18:27,515 --> 00:18:31,036 Speaker 1: go is going to be better and we could learn that. 364 00:18:32,755 --> 00:18:35,676 Speaker 1: So I have my son Ethan, he's twenty one. And 365 00:18:35,836 --> 00:18:39,196 Speaker 1: also when he went away to college, what I found 366 00:18:39,475 --> 00:18:45,636 Speaker 1: was the less I communicated to him, the more he 367 00:18:45,676 --> 00:18:49,995 Speaker 1: would communicate to me. So interesting, So I wasn't the 368 00:18:50,076 --> 00:18:53,196 Speaker 1: mom that was like texting all the time, what's going on, 369 00:18:53,356 --> 00:18:56,196 Speaker 1: how's your classes? Are you eating well? How's it going. 370 00:18:56,356 --> 00:18:58,836 Speaker 1: I would just be silent, like he went away two 371 00:18:58,876 --> 00:19:02,235 Speaker 1: hours to college. I silent. You know, of course you 372 00:19:02,316 --> 00:19:04,676 Speaker 1: hug when you you you get I cried when when 373 00:19:04,715 --> 00:19:07,236 Speaker 1: we dropped him off. All that but silent and then 374 00:19:07,316 --> 00:19:10,235 Speaker 1: let him reach out to us. That's kind of how 375 00:19:10,275 --> 00:19:13,436 Speaker 1: we did it. And what I found was he found 376 00:19:13,475 --> 00:19:15,835 Speaker 1: this rhythm. He'd usually call us once a week on 377 00:19:15,876 --> 00:19:18,475 Speaker 1: the over the weekend and we'd put him on speaker 378 00:19:18,515 --> 00:19:20,795 Speaker 1: phone and he would kind of talk to us about 379 00:19:20,796 --> 00:19:23,955 Speaker 1: what was going on, and then if something happened special 380 00:19:24,076 --> 00:19:26,876 Speaker 1: or different, you know, he would text us. And then 381 00:19:27,035 --> 00:19:29,515 Speaker 1: if there was something I thought was funny that I 382 00:19:29,556 --> 00:19:31,475 Speaker 1: wanted to pass on to him, I'd texted to him, 383 00:19:31,596 --> 00:19:33,955 Speaker 1: or if something significant happened, I would text him, but 384 00:19:34,076 --> 00:19:38,436 Speaker 1: just sporadically, not regularly at all. And I found establishing 385 00:19:38,475 --> 00:19:41,755 Speaker 1: this rhythm of like you do you just communicate with 386 00:19:41,836 --> 00:19:45,396 Speaker 1: us when you want to? That made him want to 387 00:19:45,436 --> 00:19:50,196 Speaker 1: communicate to us. So I just find it. Like I know, 388 00:19:50,235 --> 00:19:54,436 Speaker 1: as a mom it's counterintuitive to pull back, but I 389 00:19:54,475 --> 00:19:57,676 Speaker 1: think the more we pull back, the more the son 390 00:19:57,836 --> 00:19:59,796 Speaker 1: or the daughter feels like, oh, let me reach out 391 00:19:59,836 --> 00:20:01,836 Speaker 1: to my mom and tell her about this because she's 392 00:20:01,876 --> 00:20:04,315 Speaker 1: not always in my face. What do you think about that? 393 00:20:05,596 --> 00:20:07,676 Speaker 2: I love that you know, and I think what that 394 00:20:08,076 --> 00:20:10,035 Speaker 2: was respectful that you and your husband knew that he 395 00:20:10,076 --> 00:20:13,916 Speaker 2: had a life, had friends, he had homework, he had 396 00:20:13,955 --> 00:20:16,555 Speaker 2: study sessions, he might have had a job in a 397 00:20:16,596 --> 00:20:19,555 Speaker 2: dor and whatever. And I think it shows respect that 398 00:20:19,596 --> 00:20:22,836 Speaker 2: he is growing up, he wants to launch. You want 399 00:20:22,916 --> 00:20:25,396 Speaker 2: him to fly. Well, yeah, and yet you of course 400 00:20:25,436 --> 00:20:26,955 Speaker 2: want him to stay connected. I think one of the 401 00:20:26,995 --> 00:20:29,916 Speaker 2: biggest things moms, especially after grieve, is that they don't 402 00:20:29,955 --> 00:20:32,955 Speaker 2: know everything. They don't see everything. They don't, you know, 403 00:20:32,995 --> 00:20:35,275 Speaker 2: get all the contact that they obviously when they live 404 00:20:35,356 --> 00:20:38,436 Speaker 2: with you, you have constant contact, and so it's right 405 00:20:38,475 --> 00:20:41,196 Speaker 2: that you miss them. And yet I love that in 406 00:20:41,235 --> 00:20:43,796 Speaker 2: your maturity you were able to let your son take 407 00:20:43,836 --> 00:20:46,075 Speaker 2: the lead on what's the communication rhythm? That would be 408 00:20:46,076 --> 00:20:48,676 Speaker 2: a blessing. I love that that's so wise. 409 00:20:49,275 --> 00:20:51,476 Speaker 1: I think it's just you know, play it ten years forward, 410 00:20:51,636 --> 00:20:54,676 Speaker 1: that you want that good relationship ten years from now. 411 00:20:54,715 --> 00:20:57,036 Speaker 1: So what do I need to adapt to in this 412 00:20:57,076 --> 00:20:59,356 Speaker 1: new season of life so I can have that? You 413 00:20:59,436 --> 00:21:02,876 Speaker 1: said something you're on focus on the family. So beautiful. 414 00:21:02,916 --> 00:21:05,995 Speaker 1: My husband and I enjoyed that conversation so much, and 415 00:21:06,035 --> 00:21:09,716 Speaker 1: you said something to Jim Daily said, be satisfied with 416 00:21:09,796 --> 00:21:14,876 Speaker 1: what you have even though you want more, and I like, 417 00:21:15,076 --> 00:21:17,196 Speaker 1: you know, So for me it was like, be satisfied 418 00:21:17,275 --> 00:21:21,356 Speaker 1: with that weekly text from me, even though you want more. 419 00:21:21,596 --> 00:21:23,795 Speaker 1: I have a friend or her son went to school 420 00:21:23,836 --> 00:21:26,636 Speaker 1: and you know, college, and like she'll text and sometimes 421 00:21:26,676 --> 00:21:28,955 Speaker 1: he texts back, and sometimes he does it, and then 422 00:21:29,116 --> 00:21:31,676 Speaker 1: when he does, it's like, oh, like wee moms are 423 00:21:31,715 --> 00:21:35,875 Speaker 1: so excited. He responded, like, you know, I'll write to Ethan, 424 00:21:35,916 --> 00:21:38,076 Speaker 1: you know, oh, I love you, and then he'll write 425 00:21:38,156 --> 00:21:39,795 Speaker 1: back like, oh, I love you and I'll show my 426 00:21:39,876 --> 00:21:42,596 Speaker 1: daughter Lucy. Look. Ethan texted me back and look, I'm 427 00:21:42,596 --> 00:21:47,275 Speaker 1: so excited. It's so funny. So it's like, be satisfied 428 00:21:47,916 --> 00:21:50,235 Speaker 1: with what you have even though you want more. 429 00:21:51,596 --> 00:21:55,155 Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks for pointing that out. And I understand that 430 00:21:55,156 --> 00:21:57,916 Speaker 2: that's heart, but you know, God knows your heart and 431 00:21:57,955 --> 00:22:01,555 Speaker 2: what you would prefer. I think kids can resent it 432 00:22:01,596 --> 00:22:05,155 Speaker 2: when they feel forced into something. What you found with 433 00:22:05,196 --> 00:22:09,235 Speaker 2: your son, Ethan was authentic communication, which I think would 434 00:22:09,316 --> 00:22:12,516 Speaker 2: warm any mom and dad's heart. Versus the kid who 435 00:22:12,515 --> 00:22:15,796 Speaker 2: feels obligated they have to call they have to text, 436 00:22:15,876 --> 00:22:17,795 Speaker 2: even if they're frankly not in the mood, and then 437 00:22:17,836 --> 00:22:21,075 Speaker 2: it becomes maybe a a rhythm of resentment and bitterness 438 00:22:21,116 --> 00:22:24,356 Speaker 2: forums and that certainly isn't good for his relationship with 439 00:22:24,396 --> 00:22:25,956 Speaker 2: the Lord or his relationship with you. 440 00:22:27,515 --> 00:22:29,916 Speaker 1: What other tips can you give us as parents to 441 00:22:30,235 --> 00:22:34,156 Speaker 1: help us make these adjustments? We think, okay, we've listened 442 00:22:34,196 --> 00:22:36,356 Speaker 1: to this, we've read the book, but I don't want 443 00:22:36,396 --> 00:22:40,515 Speaker 1: to do it. We make these start making these and 444 00:22:40,556 --> 00:22:43,235 Speaker 1: again the same like what you said, not expecting, like 445 00:22:43,396 --> 00:22:45,835 Speaker 1: I'm going to be this clinging mom and then tomorrow 446 00:22:45,995 --> 00:22:48,555 Speaker 1: I'm going to be like hit the road jack, you know. 447 00:22:48,796 --> 00:22:51,916 Speaker 1: So it's it's also for us, not a sudden transformation. 448 00:22:52,556 --> 00:22:55,596 Speaker 1: What might those gradual steps be for us to start 449 00:22:55,715 --> 00:22:56,676 Speaker 1: launching our kids? 450 00:22:58,436 --> 00:23:01,595 Speaker 2: Let me say first to pray for it. You know, 451 00:23:01,755 --> 00:23:03,796 Speaker 2: you're right, there's some gradual steps. And I'll go back 452 00:23:03,796 --> 00:23:06,596 Speaker 2: to what I said. You've already had gradual steps. You've 453 00:23:06,636 --> 00:23:09,396 Speaker 2: always you've already allowed them to drive and go to 454 00:23:09,436 --> 00:23:11,556 Speaker 2: school without you in the in the driver's seat. They've 455 00:23:11,556 --> 00:23:15,116 Speaker 2: already perhaps gone places without you being aware of exactly 456 00:23:15,235 --> 00:23:16,996 Speaker 2: where they were and who they were with. So you've 457 00:23:17,035 --> 00:23:19,076 Speaker 2: already had some of that launch, and so I think 458 00:23:19,396 --> 00:23:21,555 Speaker 2: you know, be aware of that this isn't just doesn't 459 00:23:21,556 --> 00:23:24,275 Speaker 2: have to be this huge deal that everybody makes it 460 00:23:24,316 --> 00:23:26,676 Speaker 2: to be. Perhaps I would say too, that for the 461 00:23:26,676 --> 00:23:29,716 Speaker 2: guinea pig child, it's a learning curve. You've never done 462 00:23:29,755 --> 00:23:32,715 Speaker 2: this before, so it's okay to not get it exactly right. 463 00:23:32,836 --> 00:23:35,555 Speaker 2: Your kid has never done it before. And some kids, 464 00:23:35,596 --> 00:23:38,636 Speaker 2: depending upon personality and any other number of things, are 465 00:23:38,636 --> 00:23:40,755 Speaker 2: going to cling more to you, and others are going 466 00:23:40,796 --> 00:23:44,636 Speaker 2: to launch with great you know, security and great success, 467 00:23:44,676 --> 00:23:46,716 Speaker 2: and I think you honor them by saying, man, I'm 468 00:23:46,755 --> 00:23:49,035 Speaker 2: proud of you. And I think one of the one 469 00:23:49,076 --> 00:23:50,835 Speaker 2: of the bits of advice I would give is we 470 00:23:50,876 --> 00:23:53,956 Speaker 2: ask things like, you know, how can I help you? 471 00:23:53,955 --> 00:23:55,676 Speaker 2: You know, not can I help you, which is yes 472 00:23:55,796 --> 00:23:58,475 Speaker 2: or no, But hey, you know, we've noticed we just 473 00:23:58,515 --> 00:24:00,396 Speaker 2: don't think we see as much joy in you as 474 00:24:00,396 --> 00:24:02,836 Speaker 2: we used to see. Is there anything that we could 475 00:24:02,836 --> 00:24:05,596 Speaker 2: do for you, like let them know what you're seeing, 476 00:24:06,035 --> 00:24:08,676 Speaker 2: both on the good side and maybe the negative side, 477 00:24:08,715 --> 00:24:10,676 Speaker 2: and say, hey, you know, how can we help you? 478 00:24:10,796 --> 00:24:13,035 Speaker 2: Or say, you know, you, last time we talked, you 479 00:24:13,035 --> 00:24:14,996 Speaker 2: said that you were really struggling with your boss and 480 00:24:15,035 --> 00:24:16,676 Speaker 2: you probably don't remember this, but when you were in 481 00:24:16,715 --> 00:24:19,676 Speaker 2: middle school, man, I went through a transition with my 482 00:24:19,796 --> 00:24:22,795 Speaker 2: boss and it was a really ugly situation for a while, 483 00:24:22,836 --> 00:24:25,036 Speaker 2: and I can I remember some of the things that 484 00:24:25,556 --> 00:24:28,075 Speaker 2: I was able to do that really helped my attitudes. 485 00:24:28,076 --> 00:24:30,755 Speaker 2: And if you're curious, I'd love to share with you 486 00:24:31,235 --> 00:24:33,475 Speaker 2: and let them get curious and let them know. So 487 00:24:33,556 --> 00:24:36,995 Speaker 2: I think you know again you only parent as a 488 00:24:37,076 --> 00:24:40,356 Speaker 2: verb when invited to do so. Yeah, as Jim Burns says, 489 00:24:40,436 --> 00:24:42,276 Speaker 2: you and I both know. Jim Burns. He says that 490 00:24:42,636 --> 00:24:47,636 Speaker 2: you know unsolicited advice always comes across as criticism. I 491 00:24:47,636 --> 00:24:48,676 Speaker 2: think that's true. 492 00:24:48,396 --> 00:24:52,035 Speaker 1: Guid been very guiding and helpful for us as we 493 00:24:52,076 --> 00:24:55,395 Speaker 1: have older kids. It's for sure. You have. One of 494 00:24:55,436 --> 00:24:59,316 Speaker 1: the different ideas you have is a monthly curiosity coffee. 495 00:24:59,715 --> 00:25:02,315 Speaker 1: And I really like this because I love this word curious. 496 00:25:02,475 --> 00:25:04,476 Speaker 1: So instead of being like, why aren't you doing this? 497 00:25:04,755 --> 00:25:06,676 Speaker 1: I'm checking up did you clean your room? You know 498 00:25:06,755 --> 00:25:09,275 Speaker 1: that doesn't feel good to the adult child living with 499 00:25:09,316 --> 00:25:12,876 Speaker 1: you or otherwise. But if it's more of a curiosity 500 00:25:12,955 --> 00:25:15,796 Speaker 1: and not a curiosity like, let me be curious, so 501 00:25:15,836 --> 00:25:19,156 Speaker 1: then I can correct you and make sure no me 502 00:25:19,356 --> 00:25:22,036 Speaker 1: be curious because I care about you and I want 503 00:25:22,076 --> 00:25:24,475 Speaker 1: to see how your life is unfolding. Yeah, what's that 504 00:25:24,955 --> 00:25:26,436 Speaker 1: important role of curiosity? 505 00:25:27,515 --> 00:25:30,235 Speaker 2: Yeah, I appreciate that you saw that as valuable. Absolutely, 506 00:25:30,636 --> 00:25:33,116 Speaker 2: and this I think this is I think this is huge. 507 00:25:33,196 --> 00:25:36,075 Speaker 2: And again, be satisfied with a one word answer, perhaps 508 00:25:36,116 --> 00:25:38,715 Speaker 2: at the beginning, but again, yeah, I love what you're saying. 509 00:25:38,755 --> 00:25:40,515 Speaker 2: That it's not curious so that you can have something 510 00:25:40,556 --> 00:25:43,916 Speaker 2: to judge. It's not getting information that you can use 511 00:25:43,955 --> 00:25:46,396 Speaker 2: against them. They're not going to talk to you if 512 00:25:46,396 --> 00:25:50,035 Speaker 2: they sense that it's all about your critique. But share 513 00:25:50,076 --> 00:25:52,236 Speaker 2: something with them that might cause them to be curious, 514 00:25:52,755 --> 00:25:55,795 Speaker 2: and then ask questions, you know, why why did you 515 00:25:55,836 --> 00:25:59,076 Speaker 2: find that so engaging? Or you know, tell me more 516 00:25:59,116 --> 00:26:01,396 Speaker 2: about that particular friend you've talked about her before and 517 00:26:01,515 --> 00:26:04,316 Speaker 2: just I'd love to know more and just be genuine 518 00:26:04,316 --> 00:26:06,235 Speaker 2: in that, and you know, and then keep it your 519 00:26:06,275 --> 00:26:08,715 Speaker 2: mouth a shut. You know, it doesn't have to be 520 00:26:09,396 --> 00:26:11,396 Speaker 2: you know, your son shares about a new friend, and 521 00:26:11,436 --> 00:26:13,795 Speaker 2: then it doesn't have to well are you dating or 522 00:26:13,836 --> 00:26:15,475 Speaker 2: are you just friends? Like you don't have to you 523 00:26:15,515 --> 00:26:20,356 Speaker 2: don't have to ask necessarily interrogation question that sound judgmental 524 00:26:20,876 --> 00:26:23,395 Speaker 2: but if you can stay in that kind of light area, 525 00:26:23,515 --> 00:26:25,475 Speaker 2: or then just affirm them and say, oh, I can 526 00:26:25,556 --> 00:26:28,036 Speaker 2: see why you would like somebody like that. You know 527 00:26:28,156 --> 00:26:29,996 Speaker 2: you you have, I can see that you have things 528 00:26:30,035 --> 00:26:32,755 Speaker 2: in common. I'm excited that you met her. Just just 529 00:26:32,796 --> 00:26:34,276 Speaker 2: stay in that joy place if you can. 530 00:26:34,515 --> 00:26:37,836 Speaker 1: Yeah, if you have a lot of children, I've heard 531 00:26:37,876 --> 00:26:40,116 Speaker 1: people that do this with their grandchildren because they have 532 00:26:40,196 --> 00:26:42,835 Speaker 1: so many grandchildren. Is they'll keep a journal and they 533 00:26:42,876 --> 00:26:46,275 Speaker 1: would write the child's name, and even maybe as they're talking, 534 00:26:46,356 --> 00:26:49,476 Speaker 1: they'd like take notes because they're taking notes on like, oh, 535 00:26:49,475 --> 00:26:51,795 Speaker 1: who are your friends and what do you like? And 536 00:26:51,836 --> 00:26:54,316 Speaker 1: then the grandchild and this could be your adult child 537 00:26:54,316 --> 00:26:57,036 Speaker 1: and just depending on the relationship, but what are you doing? 538 00:26:57,116 --> 00:26:59,315 Speaker 1: I just want to remember what you said so that 539 00:26:59,556 --> 00:27:01,835 Speaker 1: I can ask you about it in the future, or 540 00:27:01,876 --> 00:27:04,076 Speaker 1: I can pray about it. And because what will happen 541 00:27:04,196 --> 00:27:06,715 Speaker 1: is let's say you write down the friend's name, and 542 00:27:06,755 --> 00:27:09,315 Speaker 1: then a month later, you're like, hey, how's Josie doing. 543 00:27:09,515 --> 00:27:11,396 Speaker 1: You're you know, if you didn't write it down, you 544 00:27:11,475 --> 00:27:14,355 Speaker 1: might not remember Josie's names. But if you write it 545 00:27:14,436 --> 00:27:16,315 Speaker 1: down and then you go to your adult child and 546 00:27:16,356 --> 00:27:18,596 Speaker 1: you're like how's Josie. The adult child is like, oh, 547 00:27:18,636 --> 00:27:21,035 Speaker 1: you can about me. You're listening, so I don't know. 548 00:27:21,035 --> 00:27:23,075 Speaker 1: As you're talking about it, I'm like, maybe I'll do 549 00:27:23,156 --> 00:27:27,075 Speaker 1: that because my memory is awful something. Maybe I'll do 550 00:27:27,156 --> 00:27:30,275 Speaker 1: that so that your kids know you care. I know this. 551 00:27:30,396 --> 00:27:32,115 Speaker 1: We can't cover it in this amount of time, So 552 00:27:32,235 --> 00:27:35,916 Speaker 1: go get the book. But this movement of kids that 553 00:27:35,995 --> 00:27:39,475 Speaker 1: are told on social media your parent is toxic. You 554 00:27:39,515 --> 00:27:41,955 Speaker 1: need to distance to yourself for your parent. You should 555 00:27:41,995 --> 00:27:43,916 Speaker 1: cut off contact with your parents because they don't have 556 00:27:43,995 --> 00:27:47,876 Speaker 1: the same political beliefs as you. They they're pushing religion 557 00:27:47,916 --> 00:27:51,516 Speaker 1: down your throat. You should cut off your contact with parents. 558 00:27:51,596 --> 00:27:54,835 Speaker 1: If we ever find ourselves in that situation, what is 559 00:27:55,035 --> 00:27:57,715 Speaker 1: what is your What do you think about what we 560 00:27:57,715 --> 00:28:01,836 Speaker 1: should do? In addition to praying, I was gonna say 561 00:28:01,836 --> 00:28:04,275 Speaker 1: we pray, and we pray. It is a spiritual valid 562 00:28:04,275 --> 00:28:04,955 Speaker 1: that is the main thing. 563 00:28:04,995 --> 00:28:06,555 Speaker 2: Actually, Arleen, it works. 564 00:28:07,196 --> 00:28:08,755 Speaker 1: Prayer works, yes, you know. 565 00:28:08,916 --> 00:28:10,836 Speaker 2: I you know I have a friend who won't pray 566 00:28:10,876 --> 00:28:14,156 Speaker 2: because he doesn't think you can change God's mind. That's 567 00:28:14,156 --> 00:28:17,755 Speaker 2: not why we pray. We pray because it's an ongoing 568 00:28:17,836 --> 00:28:21,916 Speaker 2: conversation with our best friend. While we're on a long journey. 569 00:28:22,836 --> 00:28:26,436 Speaker 2: It's a conversation. I speak, he listens, he speaks, I listen. 570 00:28:27,035 --> 00:28:33,115 Speaker 2: There's comfort, there's passion, there's a community and a unity 571 00:28:33,235 --> 00:28:36,556 Speaker 2: that occurs there. You might be in a situation where 572 00:28:36,556 --> 00:28:39,196 Speaker 2: you don't think you can talk to anybody about the 573 00:28:39,236 --> 00:28:41,396 Speaker 2: decisions your adult kids are making, but you can talk 574 00:28:41,436 --> 00:28:45,036 Speaker 2: to God and he's not surprised. So prayer does matter. 575 00:28:45,116 --> 00:28:47,396 Speaker 2: I think it's the place where we go when we're 576 00:28:47,396 --> 00:28:49,876 Speaker 2: when we don't even have to have the words. We 577 00:28:49,956 --> 00:28:51,635 Speaker 2: can do what I call a flair prayer. We just 578 00:28:51,676 --> 00:28:57,516 Speaker 2: go God, I needs you, yeah that, and he knows 579 00:28:57,556 --> 00:29:00,356 Speaker 2: what you need. You don't have to necessarily be able 580 00:29:00,396 --> 00:29:04,036 Speaker 2: to evaluate or to elaborate on that. So I think 581 00:29:04,076 --> 00:29:06,356 Speaker 2: I think that's true. I really hopeful. I think we 582 00:29:06,916 --> 00:29:10,796 Speaker 2: must not romanticize the past. You know, some parents like 583 00:29:10,916 --> 00:29:14,996 Speaker 2: I've never struggled with my son before. That's probably not true. 584 00:29:15,756 --> 00:29:19,556 Speaker 2: It was probably right when they were seventeen and dating 585 00:29:19,556 --> 00:29:21,676 Speaker 2: somebody or eighteen and they had a new job, and 586 00:29:22,116 --> 00:29:24,636 Speaker 2: they went through it appeared. Maybe now that doesn't always happen, 587 00:29:25,076 --> 00:29:27,716 Speaker 2: but there probably have been times when it was difficult, 588 00:29:27,796 --> 00:29:30,716 Speaker 2: and so don't romanticize the past and think that this 589 00:29:30,796 --> 00:29:32,956 Speaker 2: is the only time you've ever struggled. That may not 590 00:29:33,036 --> 00:29:35,236 Speaker 2: be true, and it may not have anything to do 591 00:29:35,316 --> 00:29:37,196 Speaker 2: with the way that they were raised. They are being 592 00:29:37,236 --> 00:29:39,636 Speaker 2: lied to on social media. They are being manipulated by 593 00:29:39,996 --> 00:29:42,115 Speaker 2: the people that they're following to believe that you've done 594 00:29:42,116 --> 00:29:44,556 Speaker 2: a horrible thing. Some kids are saying it was abusive 595 00:29:44,596 --> 00:29:47,156 Speaker 2: that you raise them in church. You were not an abuser, 596 00:29:48,316 --> 00:29:52,315 Speaker 2: and it wasn't abusive. No, I'm saying that as a 597 00:29:52,356 --> 00:29:54,716 Speaker 2: general statement. I hope no one listening now. If you 598 00:29:54,796 --> 00:29:57,836 Speaker 2: did force in a mean spirited way and they were, 599 00:29:57,916 --> 00:30:00,236 Speaker 2: I mean, that's a whole other conversation we can't get into. 600 00:30:00,356 --> 00:30:03,436 Speaker 2: But for most families it wasn't abusive. It was love. 601 00:30:04,036 --> 00:30:07,355 Speaker 2: So we need to not believe the liar, and we 602 00:30:07,396 --> 00:30:09,356 Speaker 2: need to stand in the authority of God and say, hey, 603 00:30:09,476 --> 00:30:12,875 Speaker 2: that's your interpretation, but that is not what our motive was. 604 00:30:14,436 --> 00:30:19,756 Speaker 2: And then you move on. Ideally, you you talk about 605 00:30:19,796 --> 00:30:23,476 Speaker 2: your memory of the situation, You say, we love Jesus, 606 00:30:23,556 --> 00:30:25,636 Speaker 2: He's our everything. He gave us the joy and the 607 00:30:25,676 --> 00:30:28,876 Speaker 2: peace and the contentment that we desired. And you know, 608 00:30:28,996 --> 00:30:31,155 Speaker 2: your mom and I regretted that we didn't know him 609 00:30:31,196 --> 00:30:32,676 Speaker 2: when we were young, because we think it would have 610 00:30:32,716 --> 00:30:35,596 Speaker 2: prevented so much. And our desire was that we would 611 00:30:35,676 --> 00:30:39,476 Speaker 2: raise you kids in the understanding of the love of God, 612 00:30:39,556 --> 00:30:41,996 Speaker 2: and we did what we thought was right. In fact, 613 00:30:41,996 --> 00:30:44,116 Speaker 2: you probably aren't able to remember this, but you loved 614 00:30:44,156 --> 00:30:48,356 Speaker 2: it back then, like you've misinterpreted and reinterpreted the past, 615 00:30:48,396 --> 00:30:51,595 Speaker 2: and we're sad about that. It's not our memory. So 616 00:30:51,716 --> 00:30:53,436 Speaker 2: is there something we can talk about where we agree, 617 00:30:53,436 --> 00:30:55,156 Speaker 2: Because this is going to be an agree to disagreed 618 00:30:55,196 --> 00:30:59,116 Speaker 2: situation for a season. So what could we talk about 619 00:30:59,116 --> 00:31:01,876 Speaker 2: that we could find agreement? And I think you stand 620 00:31:01,956 --> 00:31:05,796 Speaker 2: up for yourselves, not in a hateful, arrogant way. But man, 621 00:31:05,836 --> 00:31:08,156 Speaker 2: I just don't think that the parent needs to believe 622 00:31:08,236 --> 00:31:13,276 Speaker 2: the child. They need to stand in their accurate memory 623 00:31:13,316 --> 00:31:15,076 Speaker 2: of what happened, if that makes sense. Our lane and night. 624 00:31:15,116 --> 00:31:20,236 Speaker 2: This is challenging, But again, kids have free will, they 625 00:31:20,276 --> 00:31:23,316 Speaker 2: have made decisions. I guarantee you what you were saying 626 00:31:23,356 --> 00:31:28,156 Speaker 2: about not mandating communication from Ethan when he was a 627 00:31:28,156 --> 00:31:31,716 Speaker 2: college student. We can't mandate, we can't control. It looks 628 00:31:31,756 --> 00:31:35,476 Speaker 2: like disrespect. In fact, it is disrespect. So we need 629 00:31:35,516 --> 00:31:38,516 Speaker 2: to find other relationships that give us joy. Maybe you 630 00:31:38,556 --> 00:31:41,476 Speaker 2: can be a surrogate grandparent to a family in your 631 00:31:41,596 --> 00:31:44,196 Speaker 2: church where those grandparents are either with Jesus or they 632 00:31:44,196 --> 00:31:47,835 Speaker 2: live across country, and this child who has a piano 633 00:31:47,876 --> 00:31:51,236 Speaker 2: recital or a mother's day program at school or a 634 00:31:51,276 --> 00:31:53,315 Speaker 2: father's day program at church, has no one to invite. 635 00:31:53,956 --> 00:31:57,075 Speaker 2: Could you volunteer because you've gotten to know this family. 636 00:31:57,316 --> 00:31:59,916 Speaker 2: It's not the same thing as a quote unquote real 637 00:32:00,036 --> 00:32:03,835 Speaker 2: grandson's piano recital, but it's something that might give you 638 00:32:04,596 --> 00:32:08,476 Speaker 2: some joy, and certainly it gives the young child joy 639 00:32:08,516 --> 00:32:11,876 Speaker 2: to have another person in the third rowt to recital. 640 00:32:12,036 --> 00:32:15,155 Speaker 2: It's not about you, It's about being a blessing in 641 00:32:15,196 --> 00:32:16,916 Speaker 2: the family of God. And I think we can all 642 00:32:16,956 --> 00:32:17,236 Speaker 2: do that. 643 00:32:17,796 --> 00:32:21,396 Speaker 1: Yeah, Kathy, this has been so good. We're out of time. 644 00:32:21,556 --> 00:32:23,516 Speaker 1: We could go on. So get the book so you 645 00:32:23,516 --> 00:32:26,436 Speaker 1: can find out when my adult child comes back home, 646 00:32:26,596 --> 00:32:26,956 Speaker 1: what in the. 647 00:32:26,916 --> 00:32:27,756 Speaker 2: World should I do? 648 00:32:28,076 --> 00:32:30,996 Speaker 1: What should this contract look like? What should we I 649 00:32:31,036 --> 00:32:33,875 Speaker 1: will give this tip when Ethan came back home, instead 650 00:32:33,916 --> 00:32:37,276 Speaker 1: of charging rent, he has to take our family out 651 00:32:37,316 --> 00:32:40,116 Speaker 1: to a nice restaurant once a month. And so what 652 00:32:40,756 --> 00:32:44,316 Speaker 1: it gave us was this really nice experience and then 653 00:32:44,476 --> 00:32:48,196 Speaker 1: also this long evening where we get to catch up 654 00:32:48,236 --> 00:32:50,956 Speaker 1: with him once a month, and then we get to 655 00:32:50,996 --> 00:32:54,076 Speaker 1: try places that we wouldn't normally try, and it's been 656 00:32:54,396 --> 00:32:56,156 Speaker 1: really gold it's been really good. 657 00:32:57,116 --> 00:32:59,876 Speaker 2: That's brilliant. And then he and his siblings have quality 658 00:32:59,956 --> 00:33:01,876 Speaker 2: time together too, which is so important. 659 00:33:02,236 --> 00:33:03,916 Speaker 1: And then we figure someday he's going to have to 660 00:33:03,916 --> 00:33:05,835 Speaker 1: take out a girl and he's really cheap, and so 661 00:33:05,916 --> 00:33:07,916 Speaker 1: this is going to train him to open his wallet. 662 00:33:09,036 --> 00:33:09,996 Speaker 2: I love so Kathy. 663 00:33:10,116 --> 00:33:13,356 Speaker 1: The book is resolve conflict and find peace and hope 664 00:33:13,396 --> 00:33:16,756 Speaker 1: with adult children. How can people find out more about you, 665 00:33:16,996 --> 00:33:18,355 Speaker 1: doctor Kathy and the book? 666 00:33:18,916 --> 00:33:22,315 Speaker 2: Thanks Charly. And our website is Celebratekids dot com and 667 00:33:22,356 --> 00:33:24,676 Speaker 2: our shopping card is there. All of my podcast episodes 668 00:33:24,716 --> 00:33:27,236 Speaker 2: and blogs are there. We are on We are on 669 00:33:27,276 --> 00:33:30,636 Speaker 2: social media both at Facebook and Instagram at Celebrate Kids, Inc. 670 00:33:30,876 --> 00:33:33,396 Speaker 2: We would love people to follow us there. And again, 671 00:33:33,436 --> 00:33:35,635 Speaker 2: thank you for having me on. I really respect you. 672 00:33:35,756 --> 00:33:37,956 Speaker 2: I love who you are and what you're doing, and 673 00:33:38,036 --> 00:33:39,835 Speaker 2: I love that you found the book to be helpful. 674 00:33:39,876 --> 00:33:42,835 Speaker 1: So thanks, thank you so much, doctor Kathy. And we'll 675 00:33:42,836 --> 00:33:44,796 Speaker 1: have all those links in the show notes. Thank you. 676 00:33:46,436 --> 00:33:49,796 Speaker 1: I hope you've enjoyed today's conversation. I'd love to keep 677 00:33:49,796 --> 00:33:53,476 Speaker 1: in touch beyond this podcast. Click subscribe in the show 678 00:33:53,516 --> 00:33:56,075 Speaker 1: notes and I will give you my latest email to 679 00:33:56,196 --> 00:34:00,036 Speaker 1: keep up on what's happening with technology and kids. And 680 00:34:00,076 --> 00:34:02,916 Speaker 1: maybe you like reading or listening to books. I have 681 00:34:02,996 --> 00:34:05,716 Speaker 1: a lot of books. You could start with The Big Three, 682 00:34:06,156 --> 00:34:11,315 Speaker 1: Making Marriage Easier, Parents Rising, or Screen Kids. A big 683 00:34:11,356 --> 00:34:13,516 Speaker 1: thank you to the team at Life Audio for their 684 00:34:13,556 --> 00:34:17,435 Speaker 1: partnership with the Happy Home podcast. Check out lifeaudio dot 685 00:34:17,436 --> 00:34:21,116 Speaker 1: com for dozens of other faith related podcast about prayer, 686 00:34:21,436 --> 00:34:25,196 Speaker 1: Bible study, and more. Remember you don't have to come 687 00:34:25,276 --> 00:34:28,356 Speaker 1: from a happy home to create one. You two can 688 00:34:28,476 --> 00:34:29,796 Speaker 1: have a happy homes.