1 00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:02,599 Speaker 1: Nancy Guthrie has been gone for more than two weeks 2 00:00:02,640 --> 00:00:05,400 Speaker 1: now and the family has been cleared. Did you hear 3 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:08,840 Speaker 1: many also believe the ransom demands are faked? So what 4 00:00:08,880 --> 00:00:12,400 Speaker 1: do you do now? Jennifer Coffin, Daver former FBI, returns 5 00:00:12,400 --> 00:00:14,800 Speaker 1: to the program and she says she doesn't think it 6 00:00:14,840 --> 00:00:17,560 Speaker 1: was random. She thinks it could be a personal grudge 7 00:00:17,680 --> 00:00:20,480 Speaker 1: carried out by somebody who knew exactly who Nancy Guthrie is. 8 00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:23,120 Speaker 1: We could be looking for a wolf in sheep's clothing. 9 00:00:23,400 --> 00:00:25,880 Speaker 1: You need this information. You at least gave me the 10 00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:29,400 Speaker 1: impression that you thought somebody close has something to do 11 00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:30,920 Speaker 1: with this. But now the family is out, do you 12 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:32,839 Speaker 1: still feel like there might be somebody in a circle, 13 00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:34,280 Speaker 1: in her owner circle? 14 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:37,720 Speaker 2: I still do. I think it's going to be somebody close. 15 00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:41,200 Speaker 2: Never knew who, but it's going to be somebody close, 16 00:00:41,240 --> 00:00:44,279 Speaker 2: because look at how they acted. They're too familiar, They 17 00:00:44,280 --> 00:00:47,320 Speaker 2: were too comfortable on that stoop. They picked her out 18 00:00:47,360 --> 00:00:51,559 Speaker 2: of everybody. Look at they pulled brush. Who does that 19 00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:54,600 Speaker 2: and puts that up over the door. Just too many 20 00:00:54,640 --> 00:00:56,680 Speaker 2: clues that they're comfortable there are newer. 21 00:00:57,560 --> 00:00:59,840 Speaker 1: But you know what's interesting to me is your take, 22 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:02,720 Speaker 1: I agree with I've seen other people who have said 23 00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:04,880 Speaker 1: he doesn't look familiar with it. I think he is. 24 00:01:05,319 --> 00:01:07,080 Speaker 1: He might have been a little surprised by the camera, 25 00:01:07,120 --> 00:01:08,959 Speaker 1: although he's looking to the left when he walks up 26 00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:10,720 Speaker 1: to it, almost knowing that it's there. That he tries 27 00:01:10,760 --> 00:01:13,559 Speaker 1: to cover with the glove and as you said, turns around, 28 00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:16,399 Speaker 1: shows his gait and stride, shows his height for some reason, 29 00:01:16,440 --> 00:01:19,199 Speaker 1: like a dufist, and then grabs some brush and tries 30 00:01:19,240 --> 00:01:21,520 Speaker 1: to cover up the camera. So you feel confident that 31 00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:22,559 Speaker 1: he did know the house. 32 00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:25,560 Speaker 2: I think he did. I just felt like he'd be 33 00:01:25,760 --> 00:01:28,959 Speaker 2: lined there. He does try the door, which is kind 34 00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:32,080 Speaker 2: of interesting to me, maybe thinking it would be unlocked. 35 00:01:32,800 --> 00:01:36,360 Speaker 2: It doesn't look like he used any forced entry at all, 36 00:01:36,920 --> 00:01:40,119 Speaker 2: at least or we see unless from behind somebody else 37 00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:42,760 Speaker 2: was with him. But the bottom line is, I think 38 00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:46,280 Speaker 2: this is somebody familiar that area is. So it's like 39 00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:50,520 Speaker 2: a honeycomb, you know how it weaves through there. You 40 00:01:50,560 --> 00:01:52,640 Speaker 2: have to know where you're going to get to where 41 00:01:52,720 --> 00:01:53,880 Speaker 2: he was well, I. 42 00:01:53,840 --> 00:01:55,320 Speaker 1: Think we talked about this last time. By the way, 43 00:01:55,360 --> 00:01:58,120 Speaker 1: her podcast is called break the Case. Go and check 44 00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:00,760 Speaker 1: that out. It is it is Jennifer copp Endeavor. The 45 00:02:00,840 --> 00:02:02,960 Speaker 1: last time we spoke, we talked about this. They released 46 00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:05,160 Speaker 1: the crime scene way too soon. Then they tried to 47 00:02:05,840 --> 00:02:08,040 Speaker 1: I don't know, I guess secure it again after people 48 00:02:08,040 --> 00:02:09,960 Speaker 1: have gone to the bathroom in there, they've done everything else. 49 00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:13,040 Speaker 1: And then a couple of days later, Jennifer, maybe I'm stupid, 50 00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:15,720 Speaker 1: there's a chance they allow the pool company to show 51 00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:17,600 Speaker 1: up and start doing some work. What am I looking 52 00:02:17,600 --> 00:02:19,520 Speaker 1: at here? Would you have allowed the pool company in? 53 00:02:20,480 --> 00:02:23,120 Speaker 2: No? First of all, they did four searches, by the way, 54 00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:26,880 Speaker 2: four official searches. The first search you just spoke of, 55 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:28,880 Speaker 2: that was the locals. Then the bureau came in and 56 00:02:28,919 --> 00:02:30,680 Speaker 2: did a search. Then the bureau came in and did 57 00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:33,680 Speaker 2: a second search, retrieved the camera, retrieved the car. Then 58 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:36,040 Speaker 2: they did a fourth search and looked in the septic 59 00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:40,240 Speaker 2: so that should have been sealed up. That's what I believe. 60 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:42,680 Speaker 1: Without a doubt. I mean, it's just confusing to me 61 00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:46,079 Speaker 1: how lackluster this sheriff appeared to be early on. I've 62 00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:49,079 Speaker 1: been watching what he's been saying. He says things off 63 00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:50,840 Speaker 1: the cuff that don't make any sense. Then he has 64 00:02:50,880 --> 00:02:53,760 Speaker 1: to apologize about it later, and then allegedly he's not 65 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:56,800 Speaker 1: sharing information with the FBI. How does it work mechanically? Okay, 66 00:02:56,800 --> 00:02:59,280 Speaker 1: you've got a case, high profile case, we haven't seen 67 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:01,960 Speaker 1: one like this in a long time. But does the 68 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:04,280 Speaker 1: FBI have to literally call the sheriffans they would like 69 00:03:04,320 --> 00:03:06,080 Speaker 1: to help you. That's what it sounds like they had 70 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:07,680 Speaker 1: to do that. Shouldn't he have called them early on? 71 00:03:08,639 --> 00:03:10,880 Speaker 2: Well, he should have, and I think the minute he 72 00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:13,800 Speaker 2: knew that there were ransom notes involved, although again I 73 00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:16,680 Speaker 2: think those are completely bogus, he did get the Bureau 74 00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:19,919 Speaker 2: heavily involved. There's one hundred agents on the steal Joe Peck. 75 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:22,720 Speaker 2: So how it's looking behind the scenes is the sheriff 76 00:03:23,160 --> 00:03:27,919 Speaker 2: has the authority, the FBI has the resources and the expertise, 77 00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:29,600 Speaker 2: and those have to come together. They have to plan 78 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:30,240 Speaker 2: the sand books. 79 00:03:30,639 --> 00:03:33,240 Speaker 1: And you're saying the whole ransom stuff is bogus. 80 00:03:33,919 --> 00:03:38,440 Speaker 2: That's my opinion. Yep. They money done it to get money. 81 00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:40,760 Speaker 2: They didn't. They didn't do anything to get their money. 82 00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:41,840 Speaker 2: They didn't show the goods. 83 00:03:42,880 --> 00:03:44,960 Speaker 1: Exactly why they didn't show. They didn't show any sign 84 00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:47,720 Speaker 1: of life whatsoever, which told me almost immediately there's no 85 00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:50,560 Speaker 1: way this is about ransom, So any connection to cartels, 86 00:03:50,600 --> 00:03:52,360 Speaker 1: you would you would take that out of the equation too. 87 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:56,880 Speaker 2: Absolutely, cartels care about money and this was no cartel 88 00:03:56,960 --> 00:03:58,480 Speaker 2: hit that guy. 89 00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:02,600 Speaker 1: Car Let me let me ask you this. When you 90 00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:04,840 Speaker 1: saw that they went to Rico Rio or Rio Rico, 91 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:07,200 Speaker 1: which is about twelve miles north of the border, what 92 00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:08,480 Speaker 1: do you think that was all about. Do you think 93 00:04:08,480 --> 00:04:10,440 Speaker 1: that delivery driver because he started talking to the media 94 00:04:10,480 --> 00:04:12,840 Speaker 1: almost immediately once they released him. They detained him for 95 00:04:12,880 --> 00:04:15,280 Speaker 1: a night or for a few hours, and he started 96 00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:16,600 Speaker 1: talking to the media. Do you think he was a 97 00:04:16,640 --> 00:04:19,680 Speaker 1: guy whose cell phone pinged in the gu three you know, 98 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:22,839 Speaker 1: neighborhood and he was delivering packages and they said, well, 99 00:04:22,839 --> 00:04:24,160 Speaker 1: you better go follow up on this. I mean, does 100 00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:26,600 Speaker 1: the FBI have the technology to find out everybody who 101 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:28,240 Speaker 1: is anywhere near that area that day? 102 00:04:29,080 --> 00:04:32,200 Speaker 2: They do, there's geo fencing they can use. And then 103 00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:34,400 Speaker 2: I think that in conjunction with how he looked, I 104 00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:36,680 Speaker 2: think there was a similarity, and I think somebody called 105 00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:39,479 Speaker 2: in a tip, looked all of this is happening because 106 00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:42,400 Speaker 2: of the tips that have been generated from that stupe video. 107 00:04:43,560 --> 00:04:45,440 Speaker 1: I mean, and that stup video tells a lot. How 108 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:47,360 Speaker 1: do you think they retrieved that, because it sounds like 109 00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:49,640 Speaker 1: it was just x's and o's and binary and they 110 00:04:49,640 --> 00:04:50,960 Speaker 1: had to take it to a lab somewhere in the 111 00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:53,159 Speaker 1: FBI and piece it back together because they didn't just 112 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:54,839 Speaker 1: get a video. They had to put it together, didn't 113 00:04:54,839 --> 00:04:56,120 Speaker 1: they They did. 114 00:04:56,240 --> 00:05:00,200 Speaker 2: That was all back behind the scenes because essentially she 115 00:05:00,279 --> 00:05:02,920 Speaker 2: didn't have that subscription, so it didn't save to a cloud. 116 00:05:03,279 --> 00:05:05,880 Speaker 2: So they had to pull it from the inner workings 117 00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:09,200 Speaker 2: of everything that Nast had in combination with what the 118 00:05:09,279 --> 00:05:13,240 Speaker 2: FBI had in terms of tools. It was extraordinary, extraordinary 119 00:05:13,279 --> 00:05:14,080 Speaker 2: they got that video. 120 00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:17,400 Speaker 1: It is Jennifer Kafandever, a retired FBI special agent. Go 121 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:20,280 Speaker 1: check out Break the Case podcast on YouTube. Also on 122 00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:23,280 Speaker 1: ex coffin DAF for FDI go FBI should say, go 123 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:26,480 Speaker 1: and follow her there as well. As we're watching this unfold, 124 00:05:26,480 --> 00:05:28,480 Speaker 1: My wife has asked me the same question every single 125 00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:31,279 Speaker 1: day since it happened. Why haven't they found her yet? 126 00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:34,000 Speaker 1: Why haven't haven't we gotten a break in this case yet? 127 00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:36,120 Speaker 1: And I'm wither I get that. I mean, when I 128 00:05:36,160 --> 00:05:37,719 Speaker 1: was growing up, and I talked about this on my show, 129 00:05:37,720 --> 00:05:39,320 Speaker 1: on my show just the other night, I used to 130 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:41,520 Speaker 1: think to myself. If I lost a quarter, somebody in 131 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:43,560 Speaker 1: the government can go and find it. If I couldn't 132 00:05:43,560 --> 00:05:46,360 Speaker 1: find it, there's a they there that can go and 133 00:05:46,400 --> 00:05:49,000 Speaker 1: solve these cases and get this done. And we're feeling 134 00:05:49,040 --> 00:05:50,599 Speaker 1: a little bit frustrated now as I know that you 135 00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:53,359 Speaker 1: are as well over two weeks in. Why don't we 136 00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:54,320 Speaker 1: know what happened yet? 137 00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:57,920 Speaker 2: Well, there's a couple of new breaks that I think 138 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:00,679 Speaker 2: are promising. And one is a glove that is found 139 00:06:00,839 --> 00:06:02,919 Speaker 2: a little over two miles away on the side of 140 00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:06,840 Speaker 2: the road that law enforcement is saying actually matches the 141 00:06:06,880 --> 00:06:10,200 Speaker 2: glove that's in the picture that the perpetrator. So that's 142 00:06:10,240 --> 00:06:13,320 Speaker 2: good news. Also, and this is the huge news, there's 143 00:06:13,440 --> 00:06:16,560 Speaker 2: DNA within that glove or on the outside. But there's 144 00:06:16,640 --> 00:06:19,480 Speaker 2: DNA in that glove. It's already sent to the FBI. 145 00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:22,839 Speaker 2: This happened yesterday. We're waiting to hear back whether there's 146 00:06:22,839 --> 00:06:23,640 Speaker 2: a CODIS match. 147 00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:27,279 Speaker 1: Yeah, as we're watching this unfold, and that's huge news. 148 00:06:28,120 --> 00:06:30,080 Speaker 1: Does this show that this guy was a rank amateur. 149 00:06:30,080 --> 00:06:32,320 Speaker 1: And here's why I say that. He walks up with 150 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:35,040 Speaker 1: the backpack and he's just fumbling around a little bit. 151 00:06:35,120 --> 00:06:36,839 Speaker 1: As you said, I agree with you. It looks like 152 00:06:36,880 --> 00:06:38,840 Speaker 1: he's familiar with the area, but instead of just punching 153 00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:41,440 Speaker 1: the camera or taking it down, tries to cover it 154 00:06:41,480 --> 00:06:44,040 Speaker 1: with a little bit of leaves and brush and foliage. 155 00:06:44,120 --> 00:06:47,240 Speaker 1: That doesn't make any sense. And then if you're getting away, 156 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:50,080 Speaker 1: let's say this glove is his, why'd you throw out 157 00:06:50,080 --> 00:06:51,600 Speaker 1: on the side of the road, go to the nearest 158 00:06:51,640 --> 00:06:54,320 Speaker 1: garbage at a McDonald's and throw it away? What It 159 00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:56,680 Speaker 1: just sounds like this guy was he panicking, didn't know 160 00:06:56,720 --> 00:06:58,760 Speaker 1: what he was doing. Why would you throw a glove 161 00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:00,480 Speaker 1: with your DNA in it on the side of the 162 00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:01,479 Speaker 1: road two miles away? 163 00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:06,120 Speaker 2: Typically it is panic. I've seen guns, masks, anything that 164 00:07:06,279 --> 00:07:08,160 Speaker 2: was used in a crime. People want to get rid 165 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:10,320 Speaker 2: of that are amateurs, and they just toss it out 166 00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:12,960 Speaker 2: the window, thinking nobody will find it. So I think 167 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:17,320 Speaker 2: that what could have happened here. I'm optimistic, but cautiously 168 00:07:17,440 --> 00:07:20,320 Speaker 2: so somebody could have thrown that, somebody could have planted it, 169 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:22,240 Speaker 2: But nevertheless I'm optimistic. 170 00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:25,480 Speaker 1: Yesterday I heard some reports that it looks like they 171 00:07:25,480 --> 00:07:27,440 Speaker 1: have a match for the DNA, but they're not sure yet. 172 00:07:27,760 --> 00:07:29,400 Speaker 1: What have you heard on that is there a match 173 00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:30,680 Speaker 1: to the DNA inside the glove. 174 00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:35,600 Speaker 2: There's no match inside the glove, but there's DNA inside 175 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:37,240 Speaker 2: the glove. And that's why they're going to run it 176 00:07:37,280 --> 00:07:39,600 Speaker 2: through cotis to see if anybody of the twenty six 177 00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:42,680 Speaker 2: plus million profiles in their matchup. In other words, was 178 00:07:42,720 --> 00:07:45,880 Speaker 2: this guy's first rodeo or was he ever arrested or 179 00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:47,680 Speaker 2: convicted of some petty crime crime? 180 00:07:48,400 --> 00:07:50,600 Speaker 1: What do you think? What is your general sense about 181 00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:51,960 Speaker 1: who this guy was before he did this? 182 00:07:52,760 --> 00:07:55,000 Speaker 2: Well, I don't think this guy just woke up one 183 00:07:55,080 --> 00:07:57,040 Speaker 2: day and said, I think I'm going to go kidnap 184 00:07:57,080 --> 00:08:00,840 Speaker 2: this person. This is a crime. Ultimately, I think of 185 00:08:00,960 --> 00:08:06,400 Speaker 2: retribution and revenge, perhaps at least in their own mind, 186 00:08:06,720 --> 00:08:09,360 Speaker 2: something very personal. You have to look what would the 187 00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:13,920 Speaker 2: person gain by having Nancy Guthrie gone. It always comes 188 00:08:13,960 --> 00:08:18,400 Speaker 2: down to either money or hatred and revenge, and I'm 189 00:08:18,440 --> 00:08:21,560 Speaker 2: worried that now we're working on that premise. 190 00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:24,880 Speaker 1: So I know that you're not working this specific case, 191 00:08:24,920 --> 00:08:27,240 Speaker 1: but if you were and you wanted to find out 192 00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:29,720 Speaker 1: a motive. Is motive important right now as you try 193 00:08:29,760 --> 00:08:31,200 Speaker 1: to find the guy? Or is that not important? 194 00:08:31,920 --> 00:08:34,280 Speaker 2: I always want to know motive when you have motive 195 00:08:34,600 --> 00:08:36,440 Speaker 2: that leads to who it is you get rid of 196 00:08:36,480 --> 00:08:38,520 Speaker 2: so many other people, so motive is critical. 197 00:08:38,800 --> 00:08:42,760 Speaker 1: So your feeling is that it's something personal, possibly some 198 00:08:42,800 --> 00:08:45,840 Speaker 1: sort of indebta. What does that look like? So this 199 00:08:45,880 --> 00:08:48,040 Speaker 1: guy was some because again we don't know who he is. 200 00:08:48,559 --> 00:08:51,280 Speaker 1: But this could be somebody who did work around the house. 201 00:08:51,280 --> 00:08:53,520 Speaker 1: There could be somebody who had a running with her 202 00:08:53,600 --> 00:08:55,760 Speaker 1: somewhere in the city. We don't really know you know 203 00:08:55,800 --> 00:08:57,920 Speaker 1: who the person is. But when you say there's a 204 00:08:57,960 --> 00:09:01,120 Speaker 1: personal something there, how does that how does that manifest? 205 00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:01,880 Speaker 1: What does that look like? 206 00:09:02,600 --> 00:09:05,920 Speaker 2: Well, it can start with something small, somebody feeling like 207 00:09:06,040 --> 00:09:08,720 Speaker 2: you didn't respect them, you didn't treat them right, and 208 00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:12,160 Speaker 2: that foils for in them. It can be something that small, Joe, 209 00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:13,880 Speaker 2: can you imagine? 210 00:09:13,920 --> 00:09:16,439 Speaker 1: So, I mean this could be this could be disconnected 211 00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:18,640 Speaker 1: completely from this being Savannah Guthrie's mother. 212 00:09:20,720 --> 00:09:24,840 Speaker 2: No, I think it's Do you think that is connected? Yes? Yes, 213 00:09:25,080 --> 00:09:27,000 Speaker 2: So I'm sorry if I wasn't clear, But I meant 214 00:09:27,040 --> 00:09:31,199 Speaker 2: boiling over with something that Nancy Guthrie said did otherwise 215 00:09:31,320 --> 00:09:33,600 Speaker 2: was interpreted by this person, right. 216 00:09:33,760 --> 00:09:36,319 Speaker 1: So, but the fact that she Savannah's mother also plays 217 00:09:36,320 --> 00:09:36,679 Speaker 1: into this. 218 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:40,360 Speaker 2: I see what you're saying. I think it could look 219 00:09:40,679 --> 00:09:44,640 Speaker 2: is his revenge at Nancy, or is revenge and retribution 220 00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:48,520 Speaker 2: and anger towards Savannah. They can't rule that out right now. 221 00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:50,280 Speaker 2: That's why the motive is so critical. 222 00:09:50,640 --> 00:09:52,559 Speaker 1: It really is. As Jennifer Coffin Daffer go to Break 223 00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:55,000 Speaker 1: the Case over on YouTube, break the Case all one word, 224 00:09:55,040 --> 00:09:57,560 Speaker 1: great great YouTube podcast and go follow her Coffin daf 225 00:09:57,640 --> 00:10:02,280 Speaker 1: for FBI over on a as well. Nancy and her 226 00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:05,360 Speaker 1: and her brother and sister, and now not Nancy, Savannah 227 00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:07,400 Speaker 1: and her brother and sister have been doing these videos 228 00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:10,959 Speaker 1: Savannah by herself most recently. The early ones were We're 229 00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:12,839 Speaker 1: gonna do what you want, bring her back, We want 230 00:10:12,840 --> 00:10:14,960 Speaker 1: her back. The next one we got your message, bring 231 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:18,400 Speaker 1: her back, talk to her. You know she she's she's 232 00:10:18,679 --> 00:10:20,800 Speaker 1: our whole world, she's our light. Please bring her buck. 233 00:10:21,040 --> 00:10:22,960 Speaker 1: And then it started to look a little bit angry, 234 00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:24,520 Speaker 1: like like what are we doing? Like the brother looked 235 00:10:24,559 --> 00:10:26,360 Speaker 1: like he wanted to And I don't blame him, man, 236 00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:28,760 Speaker 1: trust me, I'd like to have five minutes in the 237 00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:30,880 Speaker 1: room with this guy too, So I get it. And 238 00:10:30,920 --> 00:10:34,000 Speaker 1: then and then Savannah starts coming on by herself, almost 239 00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:37,240 Speaker 1: looking desperate, and certainly starting to look desperate in fact, 240 00:10:37,240 --> 00:10:38,439 Speaker 1: At the end of the of the second of the 241 00:10:38,480 --> 00:10:40,960 Speaker 1: last video, she says, this is a point of desperation. 242 00:10:41,520 --> 00:10:43,280 Speaker 1: What do you what are you taking from these videos? 243 00:10:43,320 --> 00:10:45,439 Speaker 1: Are they all coached? If you were if you were 244 00:10:45,440 --> 00:10:47,960 Speaker 1: working this case, would you be telling Savannah do this, 245 00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:50,240 Speaker 1: don't do this. I wouldn't do it again. Maybe do 246 00:10:50,280 --> 00:10:52,160 Speaker 1: two today? I mean, how would you be working that 247 00:10:52,200 --> 00:10:52,720 Speaker 1: angle of it? 248 00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:56,280 Speaker 2: One hundred percent? I would be doing that. There's no 249 00:10:56,440 --> 00:10:59,679 Speaker 2: way that somebody in her situation, all emotional, in the 250 00:10:59,679 --> 00:11:02,760 Speaker 2: middle of this, should be making any decisions. That's like 251 00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:05,679 Speaker 2: a doctor treating themselves. She's going to be looking at 252 00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:08,840 Speaker 2: the experts from the behavioral analysis unit that deal with 253 00:11:08,920 --> 00:11:11,960 Speaker 2: these types of things for decades, and they're going to 254 00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:16,199 Speaker 2: manifest exactly how she should say. What she should say 255 00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:18,440 Speaker 2: that has worked in the past for getting people to 256 00:11:18,520 --> 00:11:20,240 Speaker 2: admit or come forward with something. 257 00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:22,920 Speaker 1: Is it important that she keeps saying this is our mother, 258 00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:25,079 Speaker 1: this is our life. She's a peaceful person, we love 259 00:11:25,080 --> 00:11:29,440 Speaker 1: her so much. Is that a way to personalize Nancy 260 00:11:29,559 --> 00:11:31,960 Speaker 1: as maybe this person, this person certainly has a mother 261 00:11:32,040 --> 00:11:34,400 Speaker 1: or he did at one point, who kidnapped her? Is 262 00:11:34,440 --> 00:11:36,280 Speaker 1: that Are you working on the emotions through that. 263 00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:40,840 Speaker 2: Yes, establishing some sort of empathy. Again, if more than 264 00:11:40,920 --> 00:11:44,559 Speaker 2: one person is involved, maybe the main person that perpetrated 265 00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:47,640 Speaker 2: this wouldn't have that empathy, but maybe somebody else that 266 00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:50,480 Speaker 2: knows about it, or knows this person, maybe it would 267 00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:51,680 Speaker 2: incite empathy with them. 268 00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:55,440 Speaker 1: What is this whole sixteen gloves were now recovered? What 269 00:11:55,480 --> 00:11:57,520 Speaker 1: the heck is that? Are you telling me that researchers 270 00:11:57,559 --> 00:12:00,680 Speaker 1: and investigators are leaving their gloves out in the crime 271 00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:02,440 Speaker 1: scene area somewhere? What is this? 272 00:12:02,559 --> 00:12:07,280 Speaker 2: Well, there are some photos of people shoving their gloves 273 00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:10,240 Speaker 2: in the back of their pants, right in their pockets, 274 00:12:10,559 --> 00:12:13,640 Speaker 2: and I think some could possibly fall. They talk about 275 00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:16,200 Speaker 2: homeless people that maybe lived out there. This is a 276 00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:20,480 Speaker 2: ten mile radius type area where these gloves. Sixteen's an 277 00:12:20,520 --> 00:12:23,280 Speaker 2: awful lot though, I mean, isn't it warm in Arizona. 278 00:12:23,640 --> 00:12:25,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, I would think so. I mean, it's a lot 279 00:12:25,040 --> 00:12:27,920 Speaker 1: of gloves, for sure. But they're confident that this glove 280 00:12:28,200 --> 00:12:29,800 Speaker 1: looks a lot like the one that the guy had 281 00:12:29,840 --> 00:12:32,199 Speaker 1: on and this DNA could in fact be his. So 282 00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:35,079 Speaker 1: what's the next step now the lab? Well, first of all, 283 00:12:35,120 --> 00:12:36,920 Speaker 1: let me go back to the DNA being sent from 284 00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:39,800 Speaker 1: the scene to Florida. I mean that was another gaff. 285 00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:41,400 Speaker 1: I would assume that you agree with me by this 286 00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:44,880 Speaker 1: guy Nanos instead of using the FBI lab at Quantico, 287 00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:47,000 Speaker 1: which is the best lab on the planet for God's sakes. 288 00:12:47,320 --> 00:12:50,120 Speaker 1: So does the FBI now get the DNA back from 289 00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:51,800 Speaker 1: the lab in Florida? Do they wait for the results 290 00:12:51,800 --> 00:12:54,040 Speaker 1: from Florida? Do we have those results in and then 291 00:12:54,040 --> 00:12:56,640 Speaker 1: do you try to match that to the DNA inside 292 00:12:56,679 --> 00:12:57,040 Speaker 1: the glove? 293 00:12:57,880 --> 00:13:00,640 Speaker 2: Well a couple of things. Joe, I actually did agree 294 00:13:00,640 --> 00:13:02,520 Speaker 2: with the decision to go back to Florida, and this 295 00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:05,880 Speaker 2: is why they had done so much work at establishing 296 00:13:06,040 --> 00:13:08,959 Speaker 2: profiles of the individuals. If they send it to Quantico, 297 00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:12,160 Speaker 2: they have to start from step one establishing with all 298 00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:14,400 Speaker 2: those profiles. So I think it was the right call. 299 00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:17,080 Speaker 2: So after it left Florida and they said listen, we 300 00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:19,760 Speaker 2: have mail DNA here, then it gets sent off to 301 00:13:19,880 --> 00:13:24,160 Speaker 2: Quantico strictly to compare with CODIS, and I agree that 302 00:13:24,280 --> 00:13:26,839 Speaker 2: Quantico is the best and they are going to double 303 00:13:26,960 --> 00:13:30,040 Speaker 2: check the results to make sure the profile markers are correct. 304 00:13:30,520 --> 00:13:32,000 Speaker 1: I don't know if you have the inswer to this, Jennifer, 305 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:34,200 Speaker 1: And again Jennifer Coffin dowver Go follow her break the 306 00:13:34,280 --> 00:13:38,560 Speaker 1: case is the podcast? What would indicate DNA? Could it 307 00:13:38,600 --> 00:13:40,719 Speaker 1: be a piece of hair that was mail? Was there 308 00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:42,040 Speaker 1: something else going on? I don't want to make an 309 00:13:42,040 --> 00:13:44,840 Speaker 1: assumption about a sexual assault or something, but why would 310 00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:47,640 Speaker 1: you have DNA from somebody other than Nancy Guffrey inside 311 00:13:47,640 --> 00:13:48,360 Speaker 1: that house that night? 312 00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:52,839 Speaker 2: Well, that's a good question. Remember too, there's a long 313 00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:56,400 Speaker 2: time frame this perpetrator was likely in that house, you know, 314 00:13:56,520 --> 00:13:58,920 Speaker 2: over they say up to forty one minutes. I don't 315 00:13:58,920 --> 00:14:02,320 Speaker 2: think they're accounting for in but just say even thirty minutes. 316 00:14:02,400 --> 00:14:05,040 Speaker 2: It's an eternity. So what could have gone in there? 317 00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:08,720 Speaker 2: I hate to think about, but knowing from my business, 318 00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:11,480 Speaker 2: you know, the worst of the worst could have happened 319 00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:13,640 Speaker 2: in there. We don't know what kind of DNA could 320 00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:16,360 Speaker 2: be here. Could be sweat, could be touched DNA, it 321 00:14:16,400 --> 00:14:17,120 Speaker 2: could be semen. 322 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:20,520 Speaker 1: And the fact that we know that it's mail doesn't 323 00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:23,280 Speaker 1: exclude the family, although you said the family has now 324 00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:27,200 Speaker 1: been excluded publicly. Could could that be a ploy or 325 00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:29,160 Speaker 1: when they say they exclude the family, they mean that 326 00:14:29,280 --> 00:14:30,280 Speaker 1: nobody in the family did this. 327 00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:32,800 Speaker 2: They mean that they're not going to come out and 328 00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:35,120 Speaker 2: say that in backtrack, now, when he came out and 329 00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:36,280 Speaker 2: said it, I believe it. 330 00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:38,920 Speaker 1: What about this other thing that happened the other night? 331 00:14:38,920 --> 00:14:40,400 Speaker 1: And I know that you were probably watching it as well, 332 00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:42,160 Speaker 1: because when I went to bed on, I don't know, 333 00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:44,840 Speaker 1: two or three nights ago, they had a range rover 334 00:14:44,880 --> 00:14:46,440 Speaker 1: on the side of the road that looked all dusty 335 00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:49,240 Speaker 1: or fogged over. Then they lifted up a piece of 336 00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:52,400 Speaker 1: tarp or something so the media couldn't see what they 337 00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:54,880 Speaker 1: were working on. I for a moment feared that Nancy 338 00:14:54,960 --> 00:14:56,880 Speaker 1: might have been in that car. He had no idea. 339 00:14:57,000 --> 00:14:59,680 Speaker 1: Then they had three people detained, Jennifer. When you have 340 00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:03,400 Speaker 1: the kind of activity and then nothing comes of it, 341 00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:05,080 Speaker 1: does that really mean that nothing came of it? Or 342 00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:07,160 Speaker 1: maybe something came of it. They just couldn't keep them. 343 00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:08,720 Speaker 1: They couldn't hold them any longer. 344 00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:11,440 Speaker 2: Joe Pegs, I agree with you. Look, they only had 345 00:15:11,520 --> 00:15:13,520 Speaker 2: forty eight hours. They have to make a decision. They 346 00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:15,960 Speaker 2: didn't have enough to charge, but they had enough to 347 00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:18,600 Speaker 2: take that vehicle. They had the probable cause to take it. 348 00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:21,680 Speaker 2: They had crime scene up. They marked that crime scene 349 00:15:21,760 --> 00:15:24,600 Speaker 2: on the door so they could show when if anything 350 00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:26,960 Speaker 2: was broken. They marked that as a crime scene, and 351 00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:29,600 Speaker 2: the fact they put that tarp up. I thought initially 352 00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:31,640 Speaker 2: they tarped the whole car. I saw it clearly. No, 353 00:15:32,080 --> 00:15:34,720 Speaker 2: they tarped because they did not want anybody seeing what 354 00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:36,080 Speaker 2: was in there that they were looking at. 355 00:15:36,520 --> 00:15:38,320 Speaker 1: What do you think they were looking at? Can you 356 00:15:38,360 --> 00:15:39,080 Speaker 1: speculate or not? 357 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:43,560 Speaker 2: Well? I could say what first came to mind for me? 358 00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:46,440 Speaker 2: Why I tarp something? I would tarpe it. If I 359 00:15:46,480 --> 00:15:49,680 Speaker 2: saw copious amounts of blood in there, I would tarp it. 360 00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:52,760 Speaker 2: That was the first thing that came I'm not guessing. 361 00:15:52,880 --> 00:15:55,880 Speaker 2: I'm not speculating. I'm telling you from my experience what 362 00:15:55,960 --> 00:15:56,640 Speaker 2: I would tark for. 363 00:15:57,360 --> 00:15:59,600 Speaker 1: Well, another, her blood was on the front doorstep, which 364 00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:00,760 Speaker 1: doesn't make a lot of sense. We're going to be 365 00:16:00,760 --> 00:16:03,520 Speaker 1: bleeding that much. Many have said, probably from her nose. 366 00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:06,280 Speaker 1: Can you decipher where that blood was coming from and 367 00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:08,440 Speaker 1: the way that the droplets at the ground, And do 368 00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:10,800 Speaker 1: you think it was a bloody nose or something else 369 00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:11,160 Speaker 1: going on? 370 00:16:12,280 --> 00:16:15,080 Speaker 2: Well? I think she was carried. I think that because 371 00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:19,520 Speaker 2: blood thinners and her hands and arms were paper thin. 372 00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:22,160 Speaker 2: If you look at footage from her on the Today Show, 373 00:16:22,520 --> 00:16:25,720 Speaker 2: lots of roof it wouldn't take much. But I think 374 00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:29,600 Speaker 2: it was minor type of bleeding that she had there. 375 00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:32,120 Speaker 2: I think they dripped in that pattern which go all 376 00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:34,560 Speaker 2: the way by the way to that edge of the 377 00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:37,680 Speaker 2: parking lot. Look, they didn't teleport out of there. There 378 00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:40,200 Speaker 2: was a car there and they took her out, or 379 00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:43,560 Speaker 2: he took her out, he or they and nobody stepped 380 00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:46,240 Speaker 2: on those blood droplets. So I truly believe she was 381 00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:50,360 Speaker 2: being carried and that that's possibly coming from the head area. 382 00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:53,120 Speaker 2: I also think that backpack that was stuffed full of 383 00:16:53,160 --> 00:16:56,840 Speaker 2: items full. Nobody goes in to commit a robbery with 384 00:16:56,880 --> 00:16:59,360 Speaker 2: a full backpack. You go in with an empty backpack 385 00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:01,320 Speaker 2: and then you feel it up. I think that was 386 00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:04,679 Speaker 2: to shroud her, to shroud her face, and so I 387 00:17:04,760 --> 00:17:06,320 Speaker 2: believe that's what was in that backpup. 388 00:17:06,600 --> 00:17:07,720 Speaker 1: Do you think this guy was alone. 389 00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:12,680 Speaker 2: I don't. I just had a long discussion with another 390 00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:15,959 Speaker 2: colleague of mine. I don't. I think somebody went in, 391 00:17:16,119 --> 00:17:18,320 Speaker 2: possibly from the back, and that's why he checked the 392 00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:20,040 Speaker 2: door knob because they were going to let him in. 393 00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:24,399 Speaker 2: I just I have this feeling that it's two people 394 00:17:24,600 --> 00:17:26,359 Speaker 2: at least, and. 395 00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:28,960 Speaker 1: Watching the overhead shots of this house, I wouldn't have 396 00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:31,080 Speaker 1: any idea how to get in how to get out. So, 397 00:17:31,119 --> 00:17:33,360 Speaker 1: like you say, there was somebody who was there, I mean, 398 00:17:33,560 --> 00:17:35,480 Speaker 1: do we want to say it could have been a worker, 399 00:17:35,560 --> 00:17:37,159 Speaker 1: It could have been a delivery driver, it could have 400 00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:39,080 Speaker 1: been I mean, do we have any idea Okay, the 401 00:17:39,119 --> 00:17:42,440 Speaker 1: family's out, it could be anybody else. I mean, again, 402 00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:44,840 Speaker 1: you say there's probably a connection to her somehow, that 403 00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:47,560 Speaker 1: she was in fact targeted. Can we start making assumptions 404 00:17:47,560 --> 00:17:49,560 Speaker 1: about who this person might be. Because they had a 405 00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:51,520 Speaker 1: layout of the of the house. You can find out 406 00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:53,919 Speaker 1: online where just about anybody lives. But that doesn't mean 407 00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:55,280 Speaker 1: you know how their house works. 408 00:17:55,920 --> 00:17:58,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, how their house works, how to get in where 409 00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:01,840 Speaker 2: that camera would be. And remember we have another camera 410 00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:04,719 Speaker 2: that's on that roof. I am dying to see what 411 00:18:04,760 --> 00:18:07,880 Speaker 2: footage they got from there. Did they see that car leave? 412 00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:10,520 Speaker 2: You know, we don't know. We're working with about ten 413 00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:13,960 Speaker 2: cards when there's fifty in a deck, But from what 414 00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:15,960 Speaker 2: we know, I think we're going to have some camera 415 00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:17,400 Speaker 2: footage from that camera as well. 416 00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:20,359 Speaker 1: So you think the FBI or the Sheriff's department already 417 00:18:20,359 --> 00:18:22,159 Speaker 1: has that camera footage they just don't want to show it. 418 00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:25,880 Speaker 2: Yep, that's what I think I really do And Remember, 419 00:18:26,119 --> 00:18:28,359 Speaker 2: they're only going to release something that they think the 420 00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:31,280 Speaker 2: public can help with. So it's good news because if 421 00:18:31,280 --> 00:18:35,080 Speaker 2: they haven't released it, maybe they were able to decipher 422 00:18:35,119 --> 00:18:37,280 Speaker 2: it and found what they needed to find. 423 00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:39,720 Speaker 1: I might be thinking about my cousin Vinnie, and I 424 00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:43,119 Speaker 1: apologize because I'm not an investigator obviously, but tire tracks 425 00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:47,560 Speaker 1: entire tread seems to be a big deal now, Like 426 00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:50,000 Speaker 1: the next day, eighty two thousand cars showed up. So 427 00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:52,040 Speaker 1: maybe you don't have those tire tracks. But if the 428 00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:53,560 Speaker 1: car is parked out by the road or in the 429 00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:55,800 Speaker 1: circular driveway somewhere, we're not really sure where it was 430 00:18:55,800 --> 00:18:58,560 Speaker 1: part or maybe we do, and they take her out 431 00:18:58,800 --> 00:19:01,119 Speaker 1: in whatever you know shape he's in, they put her 432 00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:02,480 Speaker 1: in the car. That car is going to have a 433 00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:04,600 Speaker 1: unique tire tread, and it might be a tired that 434 00:19:04,640 --> 00:19:06,800 Speaker 1: a lot of cars used, but that would certainly wouldn't 435 00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:08,560 Speaker 1: it down? Do you do? You look into things like that? 436 00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:12,760 Speaker 2: You always do. But the sheriff said, very early on, 437 00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:16,360 Speaker 2: I want to say day two that there's no tire tracks, 438 00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:19,400 Speaker 2: no tire tread, and I truly believe it's because everybody 439 00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:23,080 Speaker 2: rolled up on that scene again didn't protect the crime scene, 440 00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:26,760 Speaker 2: all these people trudging around, all these vehicles. Anything that 441 00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:29,240 Speaker 2: might have been there was long gone. 442 00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:31,639 Speaker 1: I know Sunday morning quarterbacking is not easy, but I mean, 443 00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:33,160 Speaker 1: you still have a missing person here in the case 444 00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:36,280 Speaker 1: is still active. What should have been done differently from the beginning, 445 00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:38,760 Speaker 1: because again, let's just dial it back a little bit. 446 00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:41,680 Speaker 1: The sheriff's department gets a notification after the family is 447 00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:43,880 Speaker 1: told she doesn't show up for church. She's gonna either 448 00:19:43,880 --> 00:19:46,280 Speaker 1: do church through video link like she normally did, or 449 00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:48,560 Speaker 1: maybe she's going to go there with somebody. And they said, 450 00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:51,120 Speaker 1: we just didn't see your mother today. And then they say, okay, 451 00:19:51,160 --> 00:19:53,520 Speaker 1: there's a missing person's can you go and check on 452 00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:56,040 Speaker 1: on somebody's well being? This is an eighty four year 453 00:19:56,080 --> 00:19:59,280 Speaker 1: old woman. As a police department and again you were FBI, 454 00:19:59,359 --> 00:20:02,119 Speaker 1: but as a POLA, as a sheriff's department, should they 455 00:20:02,119 --> 00:20:04,639 Speaker 1: have been more careful right from the get go? I 456 00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:06,520 Speaker 1: don't know if they knew that it was Savannah Guthrie's mother, 457 00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:09,160 Speaker 1: that changes the story. What should have been done differently, 458 00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:11,040 Speaker 1: like the moment they found out that there was something 459 00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:12,080 Speaker 1: awry here? 460 00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:14,880 Speaker 2: Well, And I agree with you, Joe, I always hate 461 00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:18,040 Speaker 2: to Monday Morning Quarterback because all of us make mistakes, 462 00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:21,080 Speaker 2: and I hate to do that, but I will say this, 463 00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:26,040 Speaker 2: If you treat a missing case like a homicide from 464 00:20:26,119 --> 00:20:29,000 Speaker 2: the beginning, you're in good shape. If you don't, you 465 00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:33,080 Speaker 2: end up with John vana Ramsey situation. So I really 466 00:20:33,119 --> 00:20:36,119 Speaker 2: think you just have to treat these missing cases in 467 00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:40,040 Speaker 2: this way and you can't really mess up as badly anyway. 468 00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:42,520 Speaker 1: Would that have changed? Because again, there are people who 469 00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:44,040 Speaker 1: get a hold of me every day now saying that 470 00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:46,000 Speaker 1: we have missing people all over the place. Why are 471 00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:48,280 Speaker 1: you paying so much attention to this one? I get it, Well, 472 00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:51,119 Speaker 1: there's major national and international interest in the story because 473 00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:53,680 Speaker 1: of who her daughter is. Does it change the game 474 00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:55,879 Speaker 1: at all? Does it change the plan at all? As 475 00:20:55,920 --> 00:20:58,399 Speaker 1: an FBI agent or even as a sheriff's deputy, whatever 476 00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:01,679 Speaker 1: law enforcement, when you find this is the mother of 477 00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:03,840 Speaker 1: the Today Show host, does that change things immediately? 478 00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:07,080 Speaker 2: It really does. I got to be honest with you, 479 00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:10,240 Speaker 2: not from the standpoint that you care more or less, 480 00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:12,080 Speaker 2: but from the standpoint if you know your case is 481 00:21:12,119 --> 00:21:14,560 Speaker 2: going to be scrutinized, and when you know, you've got 482 00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:19,040 Speaker 2: a magnifying glass for hovering over everything, you do, you're 483 00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:22,680 Speaker 2: going to be even more careful. So it's actually can 484 00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:25,080 Speaker 2: be helpful to know that it's being scrutinized like that. 485 00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:28,639 Speaker 1: Well, you watch Savanna's video yesterday. Again, the tone and 486 00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:31,280 Speaker 1: tenor is changing over time. What did you take from that? 487 00:21:31,359 --> 00:21:32,800 Speaker 1: And again you thought this was coached. 488 00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:37,360 Speaker 2: I think it was coached, I really do. I took 489 00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:42,400 Speaker 2: from that that you're seeing somebody completely depleted, exhausted everything 490 00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:44,439 Speaker 2: in your power to say. You can see it on 491 00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:47,560 Speaker 2: her face. Her face looks gaunt, she was holding tears back. 492 00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:50,760 Speaker 2: People said she wasn't emotional. I totally disagree. It's just 493 00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:54,480 Speaker 2: a different kind of emotion. But her eyes were welded up. 494 00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:57,360 Speaker 2: She was told what to say and she tried to deliver. Look, 495 00:21:57,359 --> 00:21:59,760 Speaker 2: she's a talk show host and she's amazing, but she's 496 00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:02,520 Speaker 2: not actress. She did the best she could with the message, 497 00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:03,800 Speaker 2: and I thought she did a great job. 498 00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:07,200 Speaker 1: I sawry report this morning. I think from from nine 499 00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:09,360 Speaker 1: to one one some side over on X. I don't 500 00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:11,440 Speaker 1: give it any credence other than I'm going to tell 501 00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:13,240 Speaker 1: you what they had to say, and you tell me 502 00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:15,600 Speaker 1: if you think that there's even a chance they say 503 00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:19,680 Speaker 1: that soon and maybe today that the authorities will say 504 00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:21,720 Speaker 1: they think Nancy Guthrie is still alive. Do you get 505 00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:22,159 Speaker 1: that feeling? 506 00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:26,640 Speaker 2: Well, look, anything you. 507 00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:28,320 Speaker 1: Want that, you want that, but. 508 00:22:28,359 --> 00:22:32,840 Speaker 2: You know, but you know, you work with probabilities, and 509 00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:37,920 Speaker 2: in this type of a case, particularly because she required medication, 510 00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:41,760 Speaker 2: they said twenty four hours, it could be a lethal 511 00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:45,320 Speaker 2: situation without our mets. And obviously she's on a pacemaker 512 00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:48,440 Speaker 2: and she needs blood dinners for it to function properly. 513 00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:52,640 Speaker 2: So you know, I think they're trying to instill hope 514 00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:56,480 Speaker 2: and everyone, but the probability is very low at this point. 515 00:22:57,240 --> 00:22:58,919 Speaker 1: What do you know about the technology? And again it's 516 00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:01,840 Speaker 1: Jennifer Coffindeffer, retired special agent from the FBI. Go and 517 00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:03,720 Speaker 1: follow her break the case over on YouTube and also 518 00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:06,680 Speaker 1: Coffin deff for FBI over on x What do you 519 00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:09,040 Speaker 1: know about the technology that was used in a helicopter? First? 520 00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:10,520 Speaker 1: And I think that might be bringing a drone in 521 00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:13,479 Speaker 1: to try to sniff out if the pacemaker is somewhere nearby. 522 00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:17,720 Speaker 2: Right This sniffer sounds so great and so sexy, but 523 00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:19,439 Speaker 2: at the end of the day, it's got to be 524 00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:24,320 Speaker 2: very close range to make out the pacemaker. And that's 525 00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:28,600 Speaker 2: from research I've done, combined with the sniffer information that 526 00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:31,639 Speaker 2: we have, it just has to be close. And so 527 00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:34,280 Speaker 2: I think it's a cool tool. And maybe if you 528 00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:36,720 Speaker 2: could see something with infrared or see something that you 529 00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:38,840 Speaker 2: thought might be a body, and you could go down 530 00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:43,399 Speaker 2: and use that instrumentation close, I think it could be worthwhile. 531 00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:47,880 Speaker 2: But unfortunately I think up in a helicopter song and work. 532 00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:50,760 Speaker 1: It is Jennifer Coffindeffer. Why don't they keep searching the 533 00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:54,040 Speaker 1: neighborhood at Annie's house? For some reason? They keep going 534 00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:56,639 Speaker 1: back there and searching again. But again today you just 535 00:23:56,680 --> 00:23:59,399 Speaker 1: broke this on my show. They are eliminating the family. 536 00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:02,000 Speaker 1: Was that just process of elimination? We want to make 537 00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:04,639 Speaker 1: sure that you're not a suspect partially. 538 00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:07,760 Speaker 2: But the other thing is where did this crime really 539 00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:11,160 Speaker 2: originate from? If you will? She spent the night before 540 00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:15,359 Speaker 2: playing games, having dinner at Annie's house and then was taken. 541 00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:19,720 Speaker 2: She followed from there was somebody in that neighborhood and 542 00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:22,679 Speaker 2: followed her out to that house, you know, so they 543 00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:24,760 Speaker 2: would know she would be in there when they hit it. 544 00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:27,879 Speaker 2: I just it makes a lot of sense to me 545 00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:30,560 Speaker 2: as an investigator to start where the person was last 546 00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:31,240 Speaker 2: known to be alive. 547 00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:35,119 Speaker 1: It's all very interesting because again she ubered over there, 548 00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:36,720 Speaker 1: which doesn't make sense to me, but who knows what 549 00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:38,960 Speaker 1: the arrangement was. It's only four miles away. You would 550 00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:40,840 Speaker 1: figure somebody can coming get her, or she would drive 551 00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:43,480 Speaker 1: there herself. She had her own car. But whatever that is, 552 00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:46,399 Speaker 1: the sun in law drops her off. But this breaking 553 00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:49,280 Speaker 1: didn't happen for hours after that, right, I mean if 554 00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:51,040 Speaker 1: you followed her home, you think somebody might have been 555 00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:52,879 Speaker 1: lying in wait, just looking for the right opportunity. 556 00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:56,080 Speaker 2: Opportunity, yeah, I think lying in wait, because there's a 557 00:24:56,119 --> 00:24:59,280 Speaker 2: lot of factors, right, what are the neighbors doing, not 558 00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:01,760 Speaker 2: only what is your subject doing? Also when did their 559 00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:04,679 Speaker 2: lights go out? Everything going on in their house, but 560 00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:08,800 Speaker 2: also the around you know, the surroundings. When does everything 561 00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:11,119 Speaker 2: calm down enough that you could saunter up there like 562 00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:13,439 Speaker 2: this guy did, and he truly sauntered up to that 563 00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:15,000 Speaker 2: door and go in and retrieve her. 564 00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:18,159 Speaker 1: It's very interesting. Why you think that this guy was 565 00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:20,400 Speaker 1: familiar with the house and others have said this guy 566 00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:23,080 Speaker 1: was absolutely not familiar whatsoever. In fact, he was surprised 567 00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:25,240 Speaker 1: by the camera. What did you see early on? Because 568 00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:27,400 Speaker 1: you've been saying this since early on that told you 569 00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:28,760 Speaker 1: he wasn't unfamiliar. 570 00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:32,560 Speaker 2: Well, he walks in and I don't know if you 571 00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:35,119 Speaker 2: have that video, it's four seconds on. He walks in 572 00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:38,760 Speaker 2: like this, right and he goes straight in. Why do 573 00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:41,680 Speaker 2: you do that unless you know there's a camera. Now, 574 00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:45,439 Speaker 2: maybe he you know, look that was his site survey 575 00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:47,080 Speaker 2: and he knew there was a camera there from his 576 00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:50,640 Speaker 2: site survey, but he'd be lying there to it. Now, 577 00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:53,680 Speaker 2: this guy is not the sharpest tool in the shed. 578 00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:55,800 Speaker 2: For sure. He didn't bring anything to cover it, but 579 00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:57,360 Speaker 2: he sure as heck knew it was there. He tries 580 00:25:57,359 --> 00:25:59,239 Speaker 2: to cover it with his hand. He realizes that's not 581 00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:02,200 Speaker 2: doing the tricks, so goes and pulls brushed. Who does that? 582 00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:05,119 Speaker 2: Take a rock and smash it? I mean, this is 583 00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:08,959 Speaker 2: very unusual for the way the manner of how this 584 00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:09,760 Speaker 2: was conducted. 585 00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:12,560 Speaker 1: Is there a chance they've already talked to the person 586 00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:15,200 Speaker 1: who did this? And I'm not blaming anybody specifically, but 587 00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:17,800 Speaker 1: they've had three people detained the other night, the delivery 588 00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:19,720 Speaker 1: driver earlier on. And I got to tell you something, 589 00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:21,520 Speaker 1: and I don't know that it's this guy. I'm not 590 00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:23,879 Speaker 1: saying that I'm not accusing him of anything, but a 591 00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:27,480 Speaker 1: delivery driver knows the topography of your neighborhood. They know 592 00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:29,359 Speaker 1: what gates you do and don't have. They know what 593 00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:30,879 Speaker 1: your front door looks like. They know if you have 594 00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:32,760 Speaker 1: a camera or not. They know what the front step 595 00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:34,719 Speaker 1: looks like. I mean, I would not be surprised if 596 00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:37,199 Speaker 1: it's somebody who has been in that area. So let 597 00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:39,119 Speaker 1: me ask you again, and again we're not blaming anybody 598 00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:40,800 Speaker 1: at this point, but do you think they might have 599 00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:41,680 Speaker 1: already talked to the guy? 600 00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:46,440 Speaker 2: I think it's possible. Look, they haven't cleared anyone other 601 00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:49,600 Speaker 2: than the family now, so it's possible. Look, they had 602 00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:51,920 Speaker 2: enough probable cause to go into the house in the 603 00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:53,600 Speaker 2: middle of the night and to seize a car. 604 00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:57,159 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, imagine they pulled him over to keep 605 00:26:57,200 --> 00:26:58,800 Speaker 1: him from going to the house, because then they're going 606 00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:01,240 Speaker 1: to be serving the search warrant. What is the mother 607 00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:03,800 Speaker 1: in laws involved in this? It sounds like she's the 608 00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:06,440 Speaker 1: one who called or said he knows something about it. 609 00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:09,320 Speaker 1: The reports have been very scattered on what the mother 610 00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:11,119 Speaker 1: in law was saying and how she was involved. But 611 00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:12,840 Speaker 1: what really jumped out at me and I wonder what 612 00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:14,360 Speaker 1: your thoughts are on this. I don't think I talked 613 00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:16,520 Speaker 1: to you about this last time. If I did, I'll 614 00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:19,200 Speaker 1: repeat it. If I were a delivery driver and I 615 00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:22,040 Speaker 1: said this the other day, I truly would know whether 616 00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:24,960 Speaker 1: I ever delivered to the house. That's big international news 617 00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:27,320 Speaker 1: right now. And this guy, when he was like sought 618 00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:29,959 Speaker 1: out the media and started blabbing his face off. He 619 00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:31,760 Speaker 1: said he didn't know if he delivered to her yet 620 00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:34,840 Speaker 1: at that point, but he knew that he delivered in Tucson. 621 00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:36,280 Speaker 1: I just found that to be really weird. 622 00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:39,720 Speaker 2: Well, I tell you the delivery guy I actually thought 623 00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:43,200 Speaker 2: was believable. It's the other guy that I'm not sure 624 00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:46,639 Speaker 2: since they took his car, crime, scened it off, and 625 00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:49,400 Speaker 2: tarpd it. That is the one I would be more 626 00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:52,560 Speaker 2: concerned about. And as far as not remembering, I don't 627 00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:54,880 Speaker 2: know if you saw this, but there was a pizza 628 00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:56,880 Speaker 2: man who delivered. 629 00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:59,680 Speaker 1: It for a podcaster ridiculous And they. 630 00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:02,240 Speaker 2: Said, do you know where you're at? He said no, 631 00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:05,119 Speaker 2: he knew nothing about the case. He lives there, he 632 00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:08,560 Speaker 2: works in that area, he delivers pizza, and he was dumbfounded. 633 00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:11,200 Speaker 2: It's beautiful, It's on tape. It's one of the funniest 634 00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:11,840 Speaker 2: things I've seen. 635 00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:14,119 Speaker 1: I saw it. I mean, how does this law enforcement 636 00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:15,640 Speaker 1: let him like try to walk to the front door, 637 00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:16,440 Speaker 1: like what are you doing? 638 00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:20,560 Speaker 2: That's a whole that's another point to be made, for sure. 639 00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:24,720 Speaker 2: But to me, this guy just when they said, do 640 00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:27,320 Speaker 2: you know where you're at? No? Not really must have 641 00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:29,600 Speaker 2: been one of these guys. You know, how about all 642 00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:33,240 Speaker 2: the dozens of cars turning up and you're at Nancy Guthries. 643 00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:35,639 Speaker 2: There are so many people though, as you know Joe Pegs, 644 00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:39,520 Speaker 2: they don't follow the news, they're not Newsy's and they 645 00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:41,520 Speaker 2: really don't know what's going on. And that's the sad 646 00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:43,360 Speaker 2: thing because people need to see this video. 647 00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:45,720 Speaker 1: It's happening right under your nose. Though, if you're in 648 00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:47,960 Speaker 1: Tucson or just south of Tucson and you work in Tucson, 649 00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:49,800 Speaker 1: I would forget that you would be aware of what's 650 00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:52,320 Speaker 1: going on in that area. Jennifer, I always appreciate the 651 00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:54,040 Speaker 1: time of the access. Let me ask you one last question, 652 00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:56,120 Speaker 1: because you'll know there's better than anybody. I think. I'm 653 00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:59,520 Speaker 1: not asking for any inside information other than how much 654 00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:02,240 Speaker 1: more do you think the FBI knows now that we're 655 00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:02,840 Speaker 1: not aware of. 656 00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:09,240 Speaker 2: If I had a percentage ninety percent more. Really, we 657 00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:12,479 Speaker 2: know almost nothing. We know a mole hill. They know 658 00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:17,480 Speaker 2: so much more information. And they are family too. 659 00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:21,760 Speaker 1: Erroln clear of the family, right, Okay, so again they 660 00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:24,440 Speaker 1: know a ton more. But do they have to go 661 00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:27,120 Speaker 1: through an analyze and say, we can't release any of this, 662 00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:29,760 Speaker 1: but we can release this little thing that could help us. 663 00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:32,440 Speaker 1: Because if they released everything that would help out the person, 664 00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:34,080 Speaker 1: right right. 665 00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:37,280 Speaker 2: They're not going to give anything that doesn't help them. 666 00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:40,640 Speaker 2: They don't care if the public knows anything. What they 667 00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:43,680 Speaker 2: need the public for is identifying that guy on the step. 668 00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:46,680 Speaker 2: And I guarantee you, Joe, someone knows who that is. 669 00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:50,200 Speaker 2: You know, if that were your brother, your son, your father, 670 00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:53,240 Speaker 2: you would know exactly by how he dresses, the whole 671 00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:57,200 Speaker 2: Walmart guard, how he turns, that eye that fades in, 672 00:29:57,360 --> 00:30:00,480 Speaker 2: that skinny little eyebrows that he has, that you know, 673 00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:03,200 Speaker 2: fluff of hair above his lip. You know who that 674 00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:05,680 Speaker 2: person is. Somebody needs to come forward and. 675 00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:07,760 Speaker 1: Any time from and when we're going to get a resolution. 676 00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:08,800 Speaker 1: Here are we getting close? 677 00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:13,200 Speaker 2: I think we're closer. I think we're closer. We're not 678 00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:15,960 Speaker 2: looking at months or years like the sheriff said, we're 679 00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:16,960 Speaker 2: looking closer than that. 680 00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:19,880 Speaker 1: It is. Jennifer Coffinde, I always appreciate the time of 681 00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:22,440 Speaker 1: the access that people love your analysis of this case, 682 00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:23,880 Speaker 1: and thank you for staying on top of it, and 683 00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:27,560 Speaker 1: thanks for making time today. Thank you, You're amazing. All Right, 684 00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:29,440 Speaker 1: that's it for Unshaking and Unafraid with Joe PAGs for 685 00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:31,480 Speaker 1: this time. Another one to drop very soon. Make sure 686 00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:32,280 Speaker 1: you subscribe