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Speaker 1: Life Audio.

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Speaker 2: You are listening to The Becket Cook Show with your

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Speaker 2: host Beckett Cook. For more information about Beckett and his ministry,

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Speaker 2: visit his website at Beckettcook dot com. To help support

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Speaker 1: Hey guys, welcome to the show today. My guest is

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Speaker 1: Eric Metaxas, and he has a new book out called Revolution,

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Speaker 1: The Birth of the Greatest Nation in the history of

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Speaker 1: the world. It's an amazing read. I couldn't put it down.

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Speaker 1: There's so many details in here about the Revolution that

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Speaker 1: I didn't know about that are fascinating. We're going to

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Speaker 1: get into some of those. But if you don't know

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Speaker 1: Eric Metaxas, he's been on the show several times before,

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Speaker 1: but he's a New York Times bestselling author of many books,

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Speaker 1: including Bonhoeffer, and this book has been on the New

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Speaker 1: York Times bestseller list for the last seven weeks and

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Speaker 1: still going strong. But first award from our sponsor, Please

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Speaker 1: welcome Eric Maan Texas well.

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Speaker 3: Thank you for having me. It makes me very happy

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Speaker 3: to see you. I realized suddenly I haven't seen you

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Speaker 3: a little while, so thanks.

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Speaker 1: For Yeah, it's been a while. I mean the years

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Speaker 1: just the days are long, the years are short, as

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Speaker 1: they say.

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Speaker 3: So.

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Speaker 1: But let's talk about your book Revolution, which.

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Speaker 3: Is why, why? Why? For what?

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Speaker 1: But uh, you know, I read every word of this book,

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Speaker 1: and as I said in the intro, there's so many

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Speaker 1: just nuggets in here of there's so many things that

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Speaker 1: I wasn't aware of about the Revolution that it just

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Speaker 1: we're brilliant and I'm just but first let's ask why. First,

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Speaker 1: why is it called revolution as opposed to America the

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Speaker 1: American Revolution?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: And why did you? Why did you write this? And

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Speaker 1: how did it How did it perfectly align with the

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Speaker 1: two hundred and fifty super centennial.

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Speaker 3: Well, it didn't perfectly align. That's the problem. I had

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Speaker 3: to really, really, really really write fast and read fast,

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Speaker 3: and to get to get it to align. I would

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Speaker 3: have liked another couple of years to work on it. Seriously.

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Speaker 3: It was brutal, brutal. But I a couple of years ago,

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Speaker 3: a really good friend of mine, probably my best friend,

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Speaker 3: said to me, he just read the chapter on George

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Speaker 3: Washington in my book Seven Men, and he said he

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Speaker 3: was so moved by it that he says, Eric, you

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Speaker 3: need to write the whole story, like the whole revel.

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Speaker 3: You need to do it. And I got to tell you, Beckett,

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Speaker 3: I don't you know. I don't like when people suggest

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Speaker 3: books to me. It's kind of like saying, you know,

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Speaker 3: here's a mountain you should climb tomorrow. You know, like

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Speaker 3: I'm busy tomorrow, Like what are you talking about? So

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Speaker 3: people always have ideas. When he said that, it really

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Speaker 3: stopped me and I thought, huh, I wow, Like I've

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Speaker 3: never thought ever, ever, ever of writing about the American Revolution. Never,

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Speaker 3: But when he said it, something inside me said, that's

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Speaker 3: that's that's something I got to think about. And the

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Speaker 3: more I thought about it, all I can tell you is, honestly,

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Speaker 3: and you you know me well enough, I felt this

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Speaker 3: was God's idea, that the Lord wanted me to tell

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Speaker 3: this story. My side of it is that, you know,

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Speaker 3: if I'm gonna you got to count the cost. Is

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Speaker 3: there a book out there already that tells the story

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Speaker 3: of the American Revolution? Not really, And whenever I write

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Speaker 3: a book, I want to make sure, like, am I

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Speaker 3: you know, do we need a book? Do we need it? Now?

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Speaker 3: There are many books on a revolution, but there isn't one,

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Speaker 3: There hasn't been one recently that tells the whole story

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Speaker 3: how did America come into being? I mean, David McCalls

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Speaker 3: seventeen seventy six tells a part of it. There's a

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Speaker 3: million books, but there isn't a book that tells the

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Speaker 3: whole story, the definitive story of everything, everything you need

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Speaker 3: to know about the American Revolution, you know, And I

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Speaker 3: kind of thought, okay, I think a really great telling

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Speaker 3: of that would be would be a great thing, because

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Speaker 3: we should all know this history. I mean, we all

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Speaker 3: have to know this history. This is like I mean,

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Speaker 3: I guess that's another way of saying why I wrote it,

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Speaker 3: because I thought this is actually gigantically important. I cannot

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Speaker 3: overstate how important it is that we know this history.

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Speaker 3: This is how this nation came into being. And so

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Speaker 3: my assignment to myself was to tell the story. That's it,

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Speaker 3: no angle, just like telling the story is itself a

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Speaker 3: you know, first of all, a monumental project, but also

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Speaker 3: monumentally important. Every American should know it, most of us don't.

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Speaker 3: Many of us maybe we knew it, we heard it

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Speaker 3: in school, we forgot it. This cannot continue we need

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Speaker 3: to know it. So I just wanted to write a

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Speaker 3: definitive book on the birth of America two and fifty

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Speaker 3: years ago, what happened to fifty years ago. But the

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Speaker 3: title for something really definitive just be the American Revolution.

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Speaker 3: But the reason I just titled it Revolution to finally

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Speaker 3: answer that part of the question is that I realized

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Speaker 3: this was the revolution. There has never been a revolution

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Speaker 3: in history that did what it set out to do

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Speaker 3: in the way that the American Revolution did. You can't compare.

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Speaker 3: I mean, when somebody says, what about the French Revolution,

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Speaker 3: the French Revolution is a bitter, tragic joke compared to

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Speaker 3: the American regardless. Yes, well it's not just godless because

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Speaker 3: it's God. It failed totally. And that's the secret to

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Speaker 3: the success of the American Revolution. The American Revolution said,

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Speaker 3: we're going to get rid of a king, an earthly king,

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Speaker 3: so that we can look directly to God, our King.

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Speaker 3: How Come I didn't learn that in school? How Come

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Speaker 3: you didn't learn that in school? How come we don't

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Speaker 3: hear that? How come every American doesn't know that's what

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Speaker 3: the men of the revolution we're doing. That's true, And

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Speaker 3: in my research, I was truly astonished to see how

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Speaker 3: clear that is, how explicit and conscious it was on

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Speaker 3: the part of the men of the revolution. I mean,

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Speaker 3: it's not like that was part of the story. That

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Speaker 3: was the story. So the title of the book is

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Speaker 3: Revolution because I said, there is no other revolution, nothing

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Speaker 3: can compare to the American Revolution. It didn't just you know,

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Speaker 3: create a new nation, It created a new kind of nation.

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Speaker 3: In the history of the world. You have to go

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Speaker 3: back three thousand years to the Sinai Covenant to find

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Speaker 3: a people that say, we want no king, We look

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Speaker 3: to God. That's God's idea of how mankind should govern ourselves.

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Speaker 3: And it happened in the Sinai Desert three thousand years

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Speaker 3: before our revolution. And then it happened again in seventeen

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Speaker 3: seventy five, seventy six. Like that's amazing. And so that's

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Speaker 3: why the book is called Revolution.

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Speaker 1: And by the way, this book needs to be required

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Speaker 1: require textbook in every public high school and private high

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Speaker 1: school in America, because you're right, we don't learn some

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Speaker 1: of these details that are re crucial.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I do hope it will be a textbook.

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Speaker 3: I hope that that smart educators at high school will understand.

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Speaker 3: That's what I have done. I have written basically a

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Speaker 3: textbook for you know, eleventh grade or twelfth graders, like

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Speaker 3: this is something that you know. I it's funny because

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Speaker 3: I wanted it to be like twelve hundred pages. I

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Speaker 3: wanted to say everything, but I just said, no, I'm

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Speaker 3: just gonna say what you need to say. I'm going

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Speaker 3: to just put in here what it's kind of like,

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Speaker 3: what's going to be on the test. Whatever's in this

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Speaker 3: book is going to be on the test. Other stuff,

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Speaker 3: there's plenty of other stuff that's extra credit. This is

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Speaker 3: the absolute basics of what happened in the American Revolution.

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Speaker 3: So I do hope homeschoolers are already telling me they're

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Speaker 3: going to use it as a homeschool curriculum, and I hope,

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Speaker 3: I hope others will do that, because really it's not

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Speaker 3: like that was my intention, But in retrospect, I realize

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Speaker 3: it would be perfect for that because I think that

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Speaker 3: I put in everything that's really necessary, and I hope

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Speaker 3: some stuff that's a lot of fun.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that would be great. Okay, So let's start at

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Speaker 1: the very beginning, because you say in the book, most

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Speaker 1: historians say the troubles began in seventeen sixty three, following

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Speaker 1: the French and Indian War, when the Crown decided that

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Speaker 1: it was time to tax the American colonists for the

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Speaker 1: great costs incurred during that war. But you say, according

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Speaker 1: to John Adams, it really began in the Boston court

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Speaker 1: room and February of seventeen sixty one, what happened in

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Speaker 1: the courtroom, I don't know.

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Speaker 3: Uh, I don't know. Man, you're gonna You're really gonna

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Speaker 3: grill me on this. Huh No, it's I'm joking. Basically,

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Speaker 3: John Adams ends up being kind of like my north

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Speaker 3: star in telling this story. It's not like I set

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Speaker 3: out to do that, but he develops. As I did

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Speaker 3: my research, I just thought, there is nobody like John Adams, nobody.

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Speaker 3: The only person who compares to him is George Washington.

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Speaker 3: I mean, John Adams deserves to be way more famous

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Speaker 3: than Thomas Jefferson. I mean absolutely, monster figure, monster intellect,

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Speaker 3: prophetic voice in some ways which we get into, but

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Speaker 3: he remembered years later, because of course, you know, Washington

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Speaker 3: dies in seventeen ninety nine. Benjamin Franklin dies in seventeen

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Speaker 3: ninety like a lot of these guys are dying, George.

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Speaker 3: I mean, John Adams lived a long time and of

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Speaker 3: course as president whatever. So at some point I think

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Speaker 3: it was around eighteen eighteen, I can't remember exactly when,

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Speaker 3: but he's ruminating on the revolution and that's when he

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Speaker 3: says that for him, it all began in a courtroom

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Speaker 3: in seventeen sixty one, because of course, the whole story

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Speaker 3: begins in Boston. The revolution begins in Boston. It all

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Speaker 3: begins in Boston with the Sons of Liberty, and that's

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Speaker 3: really central. It's a big part of the story and

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Speaker 3: it's exciting. And he was there. He was a young man,

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Speaker 3: he was a young lawyer twenty five years old in

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Speaker 3: the courtroom when James Otis Junior, who's an important figure,

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Speaker 3: argued against what was called the Writs of Assistance. And

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Speaker 3: basically all you need to know is that this was

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Speaker 3: one of the like, it's kind of like the first

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Speaker 3: really heavy handed attempt by the British to squash colonial liberties.

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Speaker 1: And they could go into the home, they could go

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Speaker 1: into people's homes without it.

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Speaker 3: Was basically, yeah, it was basically. I mean, it's complicated,

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Speaker 3: but the simple version is that they are saying like,

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Speaker 3: we have the right to go into your home and

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Speaker 3: search your home or whatever. And people like James Otis Junior,

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Speaker 3: people who understand, should our rights come from God and

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Speaker 3: we are British subjects, we have rights, said wait a second, no, no,

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Speaker 3: you can't come into my home. And you you know,

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Speaker 3: my man's home is his castle. We have British law,

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Speaker 3: we have these traditions. So but that was the first

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Speaker 3: example to John Adams of how it all began. He goes, like,

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Speaker 3: right there, something happened in seventeen sixty one where people

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Speaker 3: like James Otis Junior and others said this is this

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Speaker 3: is wrong, this is wrong. We will not submit to this.

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Speaker 3: We're gonna we're gonna fight this, and so of course

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Speaker 3: they fought it in a courtroom. But that really was

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Speaker 3: It's kind of like the sounding bell for John Adams,

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Speaker 3: as he remembered as he thought back on how this

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Speaker 3: all happened. That's the opening scene for him.

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Speaker 1: We'll be right back after this short break and the

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Speaker 1: great battle cry taxation without representation as tyranny came from

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Speaker 1: otis correct.

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Speaker 3: Yes, it's I mean, it's interesting because that phrase it

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Speaker 3: sort of sums things up. But it is the problem

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Speaker 3: with no taxation without representation is that it makes us

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Speaker 3: think too much about the money. It really is about

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Speaker 3: the principle, right, I mean, if somebody comes to you

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Speaker 3: and says give me some money, they put a gun

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Speaker 3: to your head, you think, do I owe you the money?

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Speaker 3: By whose authority are you asking for the money? Jesus said,

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Speaker 3: render under Caesar the things that are Caesar. So it's legitimate.

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Speaker 3: Tax is legitimate. But what if somebody says give me

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Speaker 3: the money, and you say, well, I don't think I

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Speaker 3: owe you this tax? Where is this? So this is

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Speaker 3: really an issue of the authority of parliament to tax

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Speaker 3: the colonies. The colonies had all going all the way

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Speaker 3: back to when people came here in the seventeenth century.

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Speaker 3: They've been governing themselves, they've been taxing themselves. Right. You

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Speaker 3: have a community and you say, hey, we need to

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Speaker 3: build a road, we need to build a school, we

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Speaker 3: need whatever. So everybody's gonna pitch in, We're gonna pay taxes.

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Speaker 3: We're all agreeing to do this. So Parliament three thousand

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Speaker 3: miles away suddenly says, hey, you owe this money. They said, no, no,

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Speaker 3: that's that's not okay. We have. We believe in these

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Speaker 3: principles of uh we if we're represented in Parliament, then

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Speaker 3: that means we're taxing ourselves. Right. If I send my

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Speaker 3: representative to Parliament, I send my representative to Congress or whatever.

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Speaker 3: We've elected him, we've all agreed. He's our guy. He

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Speaker 3: represents us in Congress. So if he votes for tax, okay,

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Speaker 3: we voted for the tax. Right. Here was a case

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Speaker 3: where somehow Parliament is saying, well, we're gonna, we're gonna

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Speaker 3: do it. End run around that, and that's when the

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Speaker 3: Americans said, no, we can't, we can't go along with that.

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Speaker 3: We need some clarity on the issues. And and this

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Speaker 3: sets up the whole theme of the book in some

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Speaker 3: ways is that the Americans were principled. They were most

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Speaker 3: of them serious Christians, really believed and right and wrong,

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Speaker 3: and thought that if I go along with your lie,

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Speaker 3: I'm disobeying God. So I have to understand that this

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Speaker 3: is legitimate. And so it's summed up in the phrase,

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Speaker 3: you know, taxation without representation, No taxation without representation. But

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Speaker 3: it's the principle behind that. Really that was the bigger

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Speaker 3: issue than the money.

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Speaker 1: And what was the crown or the Parliament's rationale for

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Speaker 1: taxing the colonies for the French, basically for to get

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Speaker 1: money for the French and Indian War.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, and it's not like Parliament at no point.

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Speaker 3: But at the end of the day, you know, to

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Speaker 3: to sum up first of all, you know, you have

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Speaker 3: to say, what's the French and Indian War? The French

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Speaker 3: Indian War. You know, you have to think think of

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Speaker 3: the thirteen colonies along the east coast of America. On

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Speaker 3: the western border of those colonies, who's on the other side, Well,

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Speaker 3: that's the French, right. The French had you know, they

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Speaker 3: had Canada and they came down through I'm forgetting which river,

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Speaker 3: the Ohio River. I mean, they were on the other

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Speaker 3: side of the thirteen colonies on the western side, and

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Speaker 3: you know you can think of them going all the

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Speaker 3: way down to Louisiana whatever. I mean, that's their empire

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Speaker 3: over there. And at some point in the in the

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Speaker 3: seventeen fifties, the British realized, you know, the French are

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Speaker 3: building forts along that, but we don't like that. We

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Speaker 3: need to give him some pushback. So they send a

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Speaker 3: young man to kind of lead an expedition. Turns out

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Speaker 3: his name is George Washington. The twenty one year old

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Speaker 3: named George Washington. A year later, there's kind of this

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Speaker 3: disaster that Washington is involved in, and it really triggers

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Speaker 3: No pun intended this the French and Indian War, So

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Speaker 3: the French were with the British, and of course the

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Speaker 3: French have native American allies, so it's called the French

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Speaker 3: and Indian War. It was really a world war in

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Speaker 3: Europe they were fighting they called the Seven Years War.

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Speaker 3: But the bottom line is, under the leadership of William Pitt,

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Speaker 3: the British won biglely. To use a Trumpian term from

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Speaker 3: our own era, they won big lely. They they doubled

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Speaker 3: their empire. They in the British they doubled their empire

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Speaker 3: and the American continent. They got all of Canada, and

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Speaker 3: so they've doubled their empire. They won the war seventeen

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Speaker 3: sixty three. But they've also doubled their debt, which means

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Speaker 3: that they're thinking about, how do how do we recoup

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Speaker 3: some of this money we've spent and they rather naturally think, oh, well,

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Speaker 3: this benefited the American colonies, so we're going to tax them.

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Speaker 3: But the American colony said, excuse me, this didn't really

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Speaker 3: benefit us. This benefited the whole British Empire, not just

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Speaker 3: us number one. Number two. We fought in this war

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Speaker 3: alongside you, so it's not like you did this on

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Speaker 3: our behalf and we're going to pay you. Men died,

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Speaker 3: Americans died. There was a lot to be said in

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Speaker 3: terms of us not agreeing that we owed this. And

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Speaker 3: then there's the principle, as we've said, as I said

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Speaker 3: a moment ago, do you have the right to tax us?

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Speaker 3: We tax ourselves. I mean, Parliament is reaching three thousand

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Speaker 3: miles across the ocean and saying give us the money.

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Speaker 3: And they're saying, well, we have our own assemblies, we

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Speaker 3: have our own governments. Here, we're British subjects. But we

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Speaker 3: don't agree to this. And that's what kicks the whole

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Speaker 3: thing off, is that conflict of do the British have

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Speaker 3: the right? The Americans push back, push back, pushback, And

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Speaker 3: that's the story of the seventeen sixties, and it's sort

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Speaker 3: of an escalation over time where it's kind of funny

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Speaker 3: because it reminds me of I wrote a biography of

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Speaker 3: Martin Luther, and in the story of Martin Luther. It's

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Speaker 3: the same kind of story where you see the Vatican

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Speaker 3: overplaying its hands so foolishly that it never there never

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Speaker 3: should have been a Reformation. They kind of forced Luther

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Speaker 3: in a way because they were so heavy handed. And

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Speaker 3: you see the same thing with King George the Third

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Speaker 3: in Parliament. This never needed to escalate, but it's like

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Speaker 3: they just insisted. And I also say it's kind of

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Speaker 3: like Pharaoh, you know, with with with the Israelites, where

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Speaker 3: if you were Pharaoh's buddy, you'd be like, hey, Pharaoh,

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Speaker 3: you know, listen these three plagues, Like I'm just letting

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Speaker 3: you know, Like I have a funny feeling there are

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Speaker 3: more to come, and I think you want to cut

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Speaker 3: your losses, let them go, Like I don't think you

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Speaker 3: really want to keep going. And and he's not going

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Speaker 3: to listen. His heart is hard. And I feel like

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Speaker 3: King George the Third in Parliament, like their hearts were hard,

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Speaker 3: they were really proud, and they did everything wrong and

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Speaker 3: in the end they lose the colonies and you think, wow,

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Speaker 3: it you know, when you study history, realize that it

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Speaker 3: didn't need to go that way. So it's it's actually

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Speaker 3: fascinating at least at least to me. It's fascinating.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. And one of the main ways that this that

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Speaker 1: was it, one of the main inciting incidents was the

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Speaker 1: Stamp Act, Right, Yeah, that's how they were going to

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Speaker 1: pay for this. But tell what is the Stamp Act exactly?

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Speaker 3: Well, that was just the way the British were going

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Speaker 3: to tax the Americans. They voted in seventeen sixty four,

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Speaker 3: they voted for this sugar tax, and then in seventeen

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Speaker 3: sixty five this big tax on I mean, it really

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Speaker 3: is weird. It was on every piece of paper. In

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Speaker 3: other words, you're going to do a contract, you're going

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Speaker 3: to print a newspaper, a magazine, whatever. They said, Okay,

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Speaker 3: here's what we're gonna do. We're gonna make you buy

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Speaker 3: all your paper from us, and all the paper will

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Speaker 3: be officially stamped, and it'll have a special amount of

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Speaker 3: money that you have to pay. And you know, it's

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Speaker 3: kind of like a gasoline tax. You know, it's it's

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Speaker 3: like you buy the tax there and it's all going

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Speaker 3: to have this extra upcharge and that's going to go

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Speaker 3: to parliam and the Americans, I mean, they were against

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Speaker 3: it in principle, but also some of them really thought,

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Speaker 3: this is kind of creepy. You're taxing paper. It feels

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Speaker 3: like you're trying to crush our free speech. You're trying

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Speaker 3: to You're gonna put newspapers out of business. Is that

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Speaker 3: what you're really doing. You're you're trying to crush our

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Speaker 3: liberties because you know, tax us is one way to

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Speaker 3: encroach on our liberties, but on paper, you know. So

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Speaker 3: it was a that was the flash point. That's when

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Speaker 3: the American colonists said, we need to fight this with

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Speaker 3: everything we have, and they did. Of course, they're riots,

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Speaker 3: uh crazy, I mean, that's one of my favorite things,

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Speaker 3: is like, I never thought I get excited about the stampback,

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Speaker 3: but the stories of these I mean you read it.

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Speaker 3: It's crazy stuff, crazy, crazy, crazy, fun crazy. I mean,

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Speaker 3: uh so that's yeah, that's what kind of kicked it

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Speaker 3: all off. Now.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and then let's talk about Samuel Adams. He was

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Speaker 1: what it was the cousins to John Adams or what was.

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Speaker 3: His second cousin, his second cousin.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and you say in the book that the nineteenth

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Speaker 1: century historian James Kendall Hosmer reckoned that Samuel Adams could

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Speaker 1: be more properly called the Father of America rather than Washington.

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Speaker 3: Why is that, well, I mean, this is another reason

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Speaker 3: I wrote the book. I said, we need to celebrate

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Speaker 3: these heroes. Every single American needs to know the story

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Speaker 3: of Samuel Adams. You would not have a country called

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Speaker 3: America without Samuel Adams period. That's not debatable. He was

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Speaker 3: definitely called the father of the Revolution. He was. He

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Speaker 3: was the man that made it happen. I mean, he

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Speaker 3: was alive to these issues in the seventeen forties, way

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Speaker 3: before James Otis Junior argued against the rits of Assistance

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Speaker 3: in seventeen sixty one. He was somebody that he really

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Speaker 3: saw this and was already writing about it. And you know,

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Speaker 3: because the British had been trying in various ways. It's

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Speaker 3: the beginning, you know, since the sixteen thirties and forties

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Speaker 3: and fifties and sixties, from the century before to kind

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Speaker 3: of pull America back under there, you know, to try

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Speaker 3: to get America to submit to the to become members

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Speaker 3: of the Church of England. You know, you have all

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Speaker 3: these people coming across to get away from the Church

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Speaker 3: of England to be Reformation Puritans, Protestants, not under the

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Speaker 3: Church of England. And so that effort was you know,

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Speaker 3: it goes back and forth and back and forth. My

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Speaker 3: next book maybe about the period before the Revolution. I

396
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Speaker 3: don't know, but I think John Adams, I'm sorry, Samuel Adams,

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Speaker 3: he was the leader in this and when the clash

398
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Speaker 3: happens in Boston where you know, because of the Sugar

399
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Speaker 3: Act and the standback, he's leading the way and kind

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Speaker 3: of grinding the propaganda mill, you know, like we've got

401
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Speaker 3: to write letters to the in the newspaper, and we've

402
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Speaker 3: got to write essays, and we've got to have street theater,

403
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Speaker 3: we've got to have you know, we've got to have

404
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Speaker 3: political theater where where we have demonstrations and we've got

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Speaker 3: I mean, he was the man behind all of that.

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Speaker 3: And it's a yeah, it's an amazing story. He is

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Speaker 3: such a hero, amazing hero and an amazing Christian as

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Speaker 3: most of these guys were, but he's at the head

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Speaker 3: of the pack. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: You just in the book you disabused the idea that

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Speaker 1: Washington was a deist.

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Speaker 3: What a joke? What a joke? I mean, honestly, that's

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Speaker 3: the polite way of saying it. Like a joke. It

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Speaker 3: is a vile lie. It is a vile lie. It's

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Speaker 3: kind of like saying Jesus was a deist. It's the

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Speaker 3: stupidest thing I've ever heard. When you look at the evidence,

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Speaker 3: you think, why are they, Why are they lying like this?

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Speaker 3: Why do historians, secular historians keep saying this? And I think,

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Speaker 3: to give some of them the benefit of the doubt,

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Speaker 3: some of them are so And I've noticed this in

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Speaker 3: writing many of my books that sometimes secular people they

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Speaker 3: just don't they don't understand the language. Right. So when

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Speaker 3: you and I would go like, oh, I know what's

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Speaker 3: going on, they'd be like, I don't know. They don't

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Speaker 3: understand the language of faith, or a Christian faith. So

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Speaker 3: when you look at George Washington, I mean, look at

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Speaker 3: any of them, you go, that's not a deist. You

428
00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:12,600
Speaker 3: know what a deist is. A deist basically barely believes

429
00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:15,720
Speaker 3: in God. A deist doesn't believe God acts in history

430
00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:18,480
Speaker 3: and is alive, and we need to worry about what

431
00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:22,760
Speaker 3: he thinks. Deists don't care about that. Nobody cared more

432
00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:25,199
Speaker 3: about that than George Washington. And so the fact that

433
00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:28,480
Speaker 3: he's called a deist is so insane, it's so silly.

434
00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:31,000
Speaker 3: And so whenever I write a book. I'm not trying

435
00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:34,840
Speaker 3: to correct wrongs, but as I do my research, I'm

436
00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:38,879
Speaker 3: astonished at how much I find that is just flat

437
00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:42,240
Speaker 3: out wrong, not debatable, just totally wrong. But people have

438
00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:45,080
Speaker 3: pushed that lie, maybe because they just don't they don't

439
00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:46,840
Speaker 3: like the truth. They don't like the idea of God

440
00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:49,359
Speaker 3: being involved. They think, oh, you can get liberty, you know,

441
00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:51,679
Speaker 3: it's kind of like you can get life. All you

442
00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:54,000
Speaker 3: need is some water on a planet and life pops out.

443
00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:57,720
Speaker 3: It's like, no, actually, you need God. And the story

444
00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:01,760
Speaker 3: with liberty. You do not get liber liberty without God, Like,

445
00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:03,880
Speaker 3: there's no such thing. Look at the French Revolution, look

446
00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:05,800
Speaker 3: at I mean, where do you get the idea that

447
00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:08,480
Speaker 3: we're equal? What is that? That comes from the Bible?

448
00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:10,600
Speaker 3: It doesn't come to the Koran, it doesn't come from

449
00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:13,879
Speaker 3: French philosophers. Where do you get that idea that that

450
00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:15,720
Speaker 3: that we're equal? Where do you get the idea that

451
00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:19,120
Speaker 3: we have liberty or rights? All this stuff comes out

452
00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:22,080
Speaker 3: of the Bible. And I think there are a lot

453
00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:24,720
Speaker 3: of people that are, you know, at least in the

454
00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:27,320
Speaker 3: last one hundred years, let's say, who just are uncomfortable

455
00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:30,080
Speaker 3: with that. So they kind of concoct this other version

456
00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:33,200
Speaker 3: where they say, oh, it was it was the French Enlightenment,

457
00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:36,680
Speaker 3: and you know, and it's simply not true.

458
00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:41,680
Speaker 1: Yeah uh and you you you mentioned sons of liberty?

459
00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:44,760
Speaker 1: Where does that? Where did that term that phrase come from?

460
00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:47,440
Speaker 1: And who who were the sons of liberty?

461
00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:50,320
Speaker 3: I feel like I'm being quizzed on my own book.

462
00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:53,240
Speaker 3: I have to I have to be like, wait a minute,

463
00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:55,360
Speaker 3: wait a minute, can I get can I get a lifeline?

464
00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:58,360
Speaker 3: Can I get it? You know, the sons of liberty?

465
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:01,840
Speaker 3: There was a It's important to say that there were

466
00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:06,160
Speaker 3: people in Parliament who agreed with the American colonists, right.

467
00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:09,520
Speaker 3: So one of them is William Pitt, Another wis Edmund Burke,

468
00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:11,800
Speaker 3: and then there's one named William. I don't know how

469
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:15,120
Speaker 3: to pronounce it, but I think it's duche. He gave

470
00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:19,119
Speaker 3: a speech in Parliament arguing I guess it was around

471
00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:21,240
Speaker 3: the Stampack, so it was probably around seventeen sixty five

472
00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:24,959
Speaker 3: or seventeen six, early seventeen sixty six, basically saying that

473
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:28,040
Speaker 3: the Americans are right, and he refers to them as

474
00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:31,800
Speaker 3: the sons of liberty. And when the copies of his

475
00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:36,080
Speaker 3: speech came over to the colonies. Some of the Bostonians said,

476
00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:39,320
Speaker 3: we're gonna call ourselves sons of liberty. And then there

477
00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:41,639
Speaker 3: were people all in all the thirteen colonies that call

478
00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:44,240
Speaker 3: themselves sons of liberty. So that's that's where the phrase

479
00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:45,880
Speaker 3: came from.

480
00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:51,360
Speaker 1: And then just briefly mentioned or talk about Champagne Charlie,

481
00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:55,200
Speaker 1: who who arts villain Champagne Charlie.

482
00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:58,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, well he wasn't really an arts villain. I find

483
00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:00,480
Speaker 3: him as a comic p There's a lot of stuff

484
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:03,879
Speaker 3: because you read the book where I find something so entertaining,

485
00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:06,080
Speaker 3: I say, I gotta stick it in the book. Most

486
00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:08,560
Speaker 3: you know, books on the American Revolution will not have

487
00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:10,640
Speaker 3: some of this stuff in there. But to me, if

488
00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:12,639
Speaker 3: it's funny, I got to put it in there. And

489
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:19,480
Speaker 3: Champagne Charlie basically after the Stamp Act is repealed, because

490
00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:22,200
Speaker 3: Britain finally realizes this is not going to work, so

491
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:24,720
Speaker 3: they repeal the Stamp Act and they don't but then

492
00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:26,800
Speaker 3: they kind of think, Okay, we still got to tax

493
00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:29,439
Speaker 3: the colonies. So two years later they come back with

494
00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:33,040
Speaker 3: the Townshend Acts. And Charles Townshend was a member of

495
00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:38,360
Speaker 3: Parliament who he came up with these these new taxes,

496
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:40,960
Speaker 3: so they're called the Townshend Acts. But he was known,

497
00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:44,040
Speaker 3: you know, I discovered he was known as Champagne Charlie

498
00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:47,480
Speaker 3: because he liked Champagne. And there was one speech he

499
00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:51,199
Speaker 3: gave basically where where he went. I mean, this is

500
00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:53,920
Speaker 3: like classic. Again, there's a lot of this stuff's entertaining

501
00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:56,359
Speaker 3: to me. But like he goes, there's a session of

502
00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:58,159
Speaker 3: Parliament and then they all go off to dinner and

503
00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:00,879
Speaker 3: they're like boozing it up. So he comes back and

504
00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:02,919
Speaker 3: gives another speech at like ten pm or whatever, and

505
00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:10,120
Speaker 3: he's out of his mind blasted. And Horace Walpole, who's

506
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:12,400
Speaker 3: kind of like an Oscar wild figure. I mean, he's

507
00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:17,440
Speaker 3: this very witty diarist who wrote tons about that era.

508
00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:23,600
Speaker 3: He writes about this about how after Charles Townsend's speech,

509
00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:26,160
Speaker 3: which was like one of the most amazing crazy things

510
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:29,320
Speaker 3: he ever heard, he was kind of dubbed Champagne Charlie.

511
00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:31,240
Speaker 3: So I said, I got to put it in there.

512
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:37,119
Speaker 1: I love that. And Patrick Henry is famous for the

513
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:39,680
Speaker 1: quote give me liberty or give me death. Yeah, and

514
00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:44,920
Speaker 1: his speech in seventeen seventy five, and he was he

515
00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:48,240
Speaker 1: I think you said he was the first who dared

516
00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:50,920
Speaker 1: to employ the word tyrant to describe George the Third.

517
00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:54,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, he what was the core.

518
00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:57,360
Speaker 1: Argument in his speech? In that speech, this.

519
00:28:57,360 --> 00:28:59,640
Speaker 3: Is like, this is like I'm trying to get my dissertation,

520
00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:04,640
Speaker 3: this is my PhD Oral examination. I better reread my book.

521
00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:05,520
Speaker 1: You wrote the book.

522
00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:10,400
Speaker 3: I forgot it. I forgot half of it. No, basically

523
00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:15,240
Speaker 3: that was I think that was back in seventeen sixty

524
00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:19,320
Speaker 3: five around the Stamp Act. Because he's known, he's most

525
00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:22,320
Speaker 3: famous for. Maybe I'm getting this wrong, but I'm trying

526
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:26,480
Speaker 3: to remember. But basically, Patrick Henry is most famous for

527
00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:30,600
Speaker 3: in seventeen seventy five, right before Lexington and conquered, he's

528
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:33,920
Speaker 3: down in Virginia and he gives his famous speech, give

529
00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:37,200
Speaker 3: me liberty or give me death. It's almost he's some

530
00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:40,240
Speaker 3: of these figures seemed prophetic, like they seem to see

531
00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:42,840
Speaker 3: what nobody else sees and they speak it out and

532
00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:49,360
Speaker 3: it's very powerful. But ten years earlier he was, I mean,

533
00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:52,400
Speaker 3: he was a trial lawyer and he he was he

534
00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:56,680
Speaker 3: had just entered the House of Burgesses in Virginia in

535
00:29:56,720 --> 00:30:00,280
Speaker 3: seventeen sixty five, so ten years earlier, and this Stamp

536
00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:06,440
Speaker 3: Act is, you know, being debated, and he he basically

537
00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:10,720
Speaker 3: says what nobody else is willing to say. And I

538
00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:12,640
Speaker 3: don't know if he uses the word tyrant or is

539
00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:16,960
Speaker 3: implying it, but they were shocked, like, wow, you know

540
00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:19,840
Speaker 3: you can't say that, but he said it. And it's

541
00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:23,200
Speaker 3: fascinating how he kind of I think somebody said that

542
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:26,520
Speaker 3: that he he walked right on the line of treason,

543
00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:30,000
Speaker 3: like it was right on that line where people thought,

544
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:32,040
Speaker 3: oh my goodness, you can get in trouble for talking

545
00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:35,560
Speaker 3: like that. But he was a very bold prophetic voice.

546
00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:40,720
Speaker 3: And in another in this list of extraordinary Christians, there's

547
00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:42,200
Speaker 3: no doubt that he was a very strong clea.

548
00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:45,200
Speaker 1: She said in that speech, I think he said, Julius

549
00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:50,400
Speaker 1: Caesar has his brutus, King Charles has his Cromwell, and

550
00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:54,800
Speaker 1: he didn't doubt that some good American would similarly stand

551
00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:57,200
Speaker 1: up for his country, although in a more mod quote

552
00:30:57,240 --> 00:30:58,600
Speaker 1: unquote moderate manner or.

553
00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:01,840
Speaker 3: So well, okay, so here's what he's saying, right, because

554
00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:04,400
Speaker 3: again a lot of us will maybe we don't get

555
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:07,520
Speaker 3: the reference, but everybody in the room when he says

556
00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:12,240
Speaker 3: Julius Caesar has his In other words, Julius Caesar overreaches

557
00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:19,200
Speaker 3: like a tyrant, and these senators murder him. King Charles

558
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:25,240
Speaker 3: in the previous century overreached and is beheaded. So he's

559
00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:28,280
Speaker 3: basically saying, like, if you do that, you're gonna get yours.

560
00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:32,840
Speaker 3: He doesn't say fafo, but if he could have, he

561
00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:37,480
Speaker 3: would have. And he's basically he's basically saying, like, you know,

562
00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:40,720
Speaker 3: if you keep this up, George the Third, like some

563
00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:44,160
Speaker 3: American is gonna you know, like he's basically trash talking,

564
00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:47,400
Speaker 3: but it's not. It's not just trash talking. Like he's

565
00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:51,840
Speaker 3: basically saying, this is this is unacceptable. The King of

566
00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:55,600
Speaker 3: England can't behave like this, and this is what's happened

567
00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:59,360
Speaker 3: in the past. And so he's basically saying, yeah, this

568
00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:01,040
Speaker 3: is a this is tyranous behavior.

569
00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:05,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think the if I'm correct, the first

570
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:08,720
Speaker 1: death in the revolution was an eleven year old boy

571
00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:13,240
Speaker 1: named Christopher Sider. Yeah, killed in seventeen seventy eleven days

572
00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:16,800
Speaker 1: before the Boston massacre. What what led to that? The

573
00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:18,360
Speaker 1: killing of him?

574
00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:20,960
Speaker 3: This really is this is a quiz. But I'm passed

575
00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:24,080
Speaker 3: so far, so good? Okay, no, no, no, it's funny.

576
00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:27,560
Speaker 3: So I'm just normally when I do interviews people on't

577
00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:30,120
Speaker 3: asking any specific questions, so I'm actually genuinely great.

578
00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:32,880
Speaker 1: I read the I always read the books. That's why

579
00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:34,200
Speaker 1: I have very specific no, no.

580
00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:36,760
Speaker 3: No, no, it's this is like a delight for me because

581
00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:39,520
Speaker 3: I'm talking about stuff I don't normally talk about. Well,

582
00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:41,960
Speaker 3: it's kind of a weird thing, and I felt, I

583
00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:43,560
Speaker 3: mean again, there's a lot of stuff that I felt

584
00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:45,240
Speaker 3: I have to put in the book. Everybody needs to

585
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:50,040
Speaker 3: know this. Everybody needs to know that a week before

586
00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:53,720
Speaker 3: the Boston massacre where five people were killed, it was

587
00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:56,640
Speaker 3: not a massacre, by the way, but five people were killed.

588
00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:01,080
Speaker 3: One week before an eleven years old boy is killed.

589
00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:04,880
Speaker 3: And that's really the first time a British solution, right,

590
00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:09,840
Speaker 3: what's that my British No, No, it was it was

591
00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:14,040
Speaker 3: kind of a mob scene. Basically, here's here's what happened.

592
00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:18,760
Speaker 3: I'll tell the story. Basically, there's this again, there's this

593
00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:22,680
Speaker 3: huge conflict that goes on from you know, seventeen sixty five.

594
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:25,960
Speaker 3: Every year it's it's something new with Waxes and Waynes,

595
00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:28,920
Speaker 3: and you know, Parliament backs off and then they try again,

596
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:30,880
Speaker 3: and it goes back and forth and back and forth.

597
00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:34,680
Speaker 3: In seventeen sixty eight because of Champagne, Charlie and the

598
00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:38,880
Speaker 3: Townshend acts. The Americans did not respond well to that.

599
00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:41,000
Speaker 3: They're like, no, we're not We're not going to put

600
00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:46,960
Speaker 3: up with this. So the British very foolishly send troops

601
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:51,760
Speaker 3: to Boston. So if you ever wanted to like cause trouble,

602
00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:55,320
Speaker 3: create tension, they send troops to Boston. So there's this

603
00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:59,360
Speaker 3: tension because the Bostonians now feel like there's an occupying

604
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:05,160
Speaker 3: force in their town of you know, uppity British soldiers

605
00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:07,360
Speaker 3: who talk down to them, and I mean it really

606
00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:14,680
Speaker 3: is a powder cake. So in seventeen seventy, in February

607
00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:21,759
Speaker 3: of seventeen seventy, this is kind of you know, this

608
00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:26,719
Speaker 3: tension builds up because there had been one of the

609
00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:29,360
Speaker 3: things that the Americans were doing to push back against

610
00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:32,880
Speaker 3: the British was boycotting British goods, which is, you know,

611
00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:36,080
Speaker 3: a very powerful way to send a message. It's like,

612
00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:38,319
Speaker 3: we're going to starve you economically. We are not going

613
00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:40,960
Speaker 3: to buy your goods. So you're going to suffer. Great Britain.

614
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:43,080
Speaker 3: You want to you want to wear this game, you

615
00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:45,000
Speaker 3: want to play this game, we will not buy. We're

616
00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:48,800
Speaker 3: going to spin our own wool and make our own clothes.

617
00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:51,880
Speaker 3: We're not going to buy your luxury goods. Will suffer

618
00:34:52,200 --> 00:34:56,680
Speaker 3: for the cause. So at some point you have merchants

619
00:34:56,680 --> 00:34:59,440
Speaker 3: in Boston that say, you know what, we're tired of this,

620
00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:03,080
Speaker 3: we're losing, we we're in other words, there's some people

621
00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:05,319
Speaker 3: that are very patriotic and very American, and others that

622
00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:07,200
Speaker 3: were like, I want some money, you know, they were

623
00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:13,040
Speaker 3: kind of on the fence. So the Americans, the Patriots said,

624
00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:15,640
Speaker 3: if you're if you're gonna play that game, if you're

625
00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:18,560
Speaker 3: some merchant and you want to import British goods, we're

626
00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:21,600
Speaker 3: gonna harass you, like we're gonna put signs outside of

627
00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:25,680
Speaker 3: your store to let everybody know you're you're siding with

628
00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:29,520
Speaker 3: the British. So that causes tension, and at some point,

629
00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:34,520
Speaker 3: basically there's a mob around one of these stores and

630
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:37,560
Speaker 3: it creates this tension, and there's this one guy who

631
00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:42,880
Speaker 3: basically sides with the British who really confronts this mob

632
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:45,120
Speaker 3: and they kind of come after him. He goes into

633
00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:47,640
Speaker 3: his house, they start throwing rocks at his house. It

634
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:52,640
Speaker 3: just becomes this violent street scene, and at some point

635
00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:55,759
Speaker 3: this guy is in his house. Long story short, he

636
00:35:55,760 --> 00:36:00,000
Speaker 3: pulls out a gun and fires. Uh, and I don't

637
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:04,000
Speaker 3: I'm sure he didn't mean to kill anyone, but an

638
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:08,360
Speaker 3: eleven year old boy is killed, and that just sends

639
00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:11,719
Speaker 3: the whole town of Boston into a tizzy because now

640
00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:15,480
Speaker 3: somebody has died, and so that kind of ratchets things

641
00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:17,680
Speaker 3: up through that week. And then at the end of

642
00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:19,719
Speaker 3: that week we have what's called the Boston Massacre, where

643
00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:23,440
Speaker 3: there's another scene. So that's really the big one of

644
00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:26,319
Speaker 3: the one of the big moments that leads up to

645
00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:29,840
Speaker 3: the war. Obviously at Lexton Concord seventeen seventy five, but

646
00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:32,239
Speaker 3: this is that's one of those markers that you know,

647
00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:34,920
Speaker 3: we all need to know these stories because this is

648
00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:36,400
Speaker 3: how it happened.

649
00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:42,920
Speaker 1: Yes, and you talk about George Whitfield's influence on the Revolution,

650
00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:44,880
Speaker 1: What was his influence on the Revolution?

651
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:49,000
Speaker 3: You got me, I don't know. Okay, all right, I'll

652
00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:52,480
Speaker 3: tell you. I have no idea. I'll tell you no Whitfield.

653
00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:58,680
Speaker 3: I think it's fair to say that without Woodfield there's

654
00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:03,160
Speaker 3: no America. The greatest evangelist maybe who ever lived ever.

655
00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:06,600
Speaker 3: I joke around that he makes Billy Graham and the

656
00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:09,960
Speaker 3: apostle Paul look like lazy agnostics, Like that's just like

657
00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:14,839
Speaker 3: he is. He preached eighteen thousand sermons and basically he's

658
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:17,560
Speaker 3: the leading figure in what's called the Great Awakening. But

659
00:37:18,040 --> 00:37:22,160
Speaker 3: in preaching up and down the Thirteen Colonies, he awakens

660
00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:24,319
Speaker 3: something else. In other words, if if you're preaching the

661
00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:28,120
Speaker 3: true Gospel, you're telling people we're all equal in God's eyes.

662
00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:33,600
Speaker 3: So the king, the governor, the shopkeeper, we're all equal

663
00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:37,080
Speaker 3: before God, and we all have an equal responsibility to

664
00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:41,239
Speaker 3: look directly to the Lord. That's not the priest's job

665
00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:44,040
Speaker 3: or the king's job. That's all of our job. And

666
00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:46,840
Speaker 3: so that's pure Protestantism right comes out of the Reformation,

667
00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:52,560
Speaker 3: and so that ignites this feeling that we don't need

668
00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:54,920
Speaker 3: a king, we can look directly to God. We can

669
00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:57,920
Speaker 3: govern ourselves. So that's the short version of the story.

670
00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:00,440
Speaker 3: But he Whitfield was looked upon. It is kind of

671
00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:04,520
Speaker 3: like the Saint of America. When he died in seventeen seventy,

672
00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:10,480
Speaker 3: he was like revered, like he was this major figure

673
00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:12,840
Speaker 3: who represented the cause.

674
00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:16,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think Benedict Arnold and his friends tried to

675
00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:18,719
Speaker 1: get some of his stuff from his grave.

676
00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:21,960
Speaker 3: To That's one of my favorite stories. I mean, I

677
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:23,560
Speaker 3: don't get to tell that often, but I mean it's

678
00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:27,080
Speaker 3: a macabre story, right that Bennedict Arnold before he goes

679
00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:31,239
Speaker 3: over to the dark Side. He and his troops are

680
00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:36,360
Speaker 3: about to go on an expedition through Maine up to Canada,

681
00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:39,480
Speaker 3: and they stop in the church where Whitfield preached his

682
00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:44,160
Speaker 3: last sermon, and he and his officers ask, can we

683
00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:47,719
Speaker 3: visit the grave of Whitfield? And they go down to

684
00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:50,760
Speaker 3: the grave of Whitfield, who they revere like the saint

685
00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:53,960
Speaker 3: of the cause because it was a sacred cause. They

686
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:58,200
Speaker 3: saw God as central to the cause, and his prophet

687
00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:01,799
Speaker 3: was Whitfield. They go down to the crypt and they

688
00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:04,560
Speaker 3: ask the sex and can we remove the lid of

689
00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:10,360
Speaker 3: the coffin? And it's so creepy to us because we

690
00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:13,440
Speaker 3: wouldn't want to do that, But they see that his

691
00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:17,480
Speaker 3: body is molded to dust, but the cuffs and the

692
00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:21,600
Speaker 3: collar of his clerical gown are still there, and so

693
00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:24,400
Speaker 3: they cut those into pieces and distribute them like sacred

694
00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:28,080
Speaker 3: relics on this expedition. So you think, how much did

695
00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:30,879
Speaker 3: they revere George Woodfield that they would do this, How

696
00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:35,279
Speaker 3: central was this evangelist to the American cause. I mean

697
00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:38,520
Speaker 3: that tells a lot about who was involved in what

698
00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:39,240
Speaker 3: they were thinking.

699
00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:44,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you mentioned that Americans were far more literate

700
00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:46,680
Speaker 1: than any other people that had ever been in the

701
00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:51,200
Speaker 1: history of the world because of the importance that Puritan's

702
00:39:51,239 --> 00:39:55,360
Speaker 1: placed on the priority of reading the Bible, reading and understanding.

703
00:39:56,840 --> 00:39:59,799
Speaker 1: So that was kind of a that was key right to.

704
00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:03,360
Speaker 3: Yes, it's interesting because but it comes right out. A

705
00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:05,239
Speaker 3: lot of people say, oh, that's the Enlightenment. No, it's

706
00:40:05,239 --> 00:40:10,759
Speaker 3: not the Enlightenment, it's the Reformation. The Reformation says we

707
00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:14,360
Speaker 3: can read the Bible for ourselves now because the printing press.

708
00:40:14,719 --> 00:40:17,320
Speaker 3: Everyone can read the Bible. Everyone must read the Bible.

709
00:40:17,360 --> 00:40:21,640
Speaker 3: Everyone must know how to think and to reason. And

710
00:40:21,719 --> 00:40:27,680
Speaker 3: so education was incredibly important to the Christian faith. If

711
00:40:27,719 --> 00:40:29,720
Speaker 3: you want to be a good Christian, you need to read.

712
00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:32,080
Speaker 3: You need to read the Bible. You can't just get

713
00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:34,320
Speaker 3: it for some priest. You need to know for yourself

714
00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:39,680
Speaker 3: is this true or not? And all of the I

715
00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:46,440
Speaker 3: guess all of the leaders of the American Revolution understood

716
00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:49,439
Speaker 3: that this is all tied in and that we have

717
00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:52,840
Speaker 3: to we have to know our rights, we have to

718
00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:56,880
Speaker 3: know how it all works, and so they were incredibly

719
00:40:56,920 --> 00:41:00,279
Speaker 3: biblically illiterate, and they also were very literate when it

720
00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:01,840
Speaker 3: came to I mean at the number two book. I

721
00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:04,520
Speaker 3: think I quote this someplace in the book that the

722
00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:07,000
Speaker 3: number two Book imported from England, but next to the

723
00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:12,400
Speaker 3: Bible was Blackstone's Legal Commentary, so Blackstone's book on law.

724
00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:14,879
Speaker 3: So they were familiar with all this. So it's kind

725
00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:18,920
Speaker 3: of an amazing level of education and literacy that you

726
00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:20,960
Speaker 3: find in the Thirteen Colonies. I don't think there's anything

727
00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:23,200
Speaker 3: comparable to it. And if we want to know today,

728
00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:27,920
Speaker 3: you know, what's the path back? We have to take reading,

729
00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:32,040
Speaker 3: educating ourselves and reading the Bible very seriously, because they did.

730
00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:38,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, and the Boston Tea Party, the Boston Tea Party

731
00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:42,080
Speaker 1: was really called the destruction of the Tea originally, right.

732
00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:44,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, they didn't call it the Boston Tea Party until

733
00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:47,000
Speaker 3: sometime in the nineteenth century. They just called it the

734
00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:51,239
Speaker 3: destruction of the Tea. But that was like really kind

735
00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:54,280
Speaker 3: of the point where it's like the point of no return.

736
00:41:55,480 --> 00:41:58,160
Speaker 3: It was a very brazen thing for the Americans to do,

737
00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:01,759
Speaker 3: and it was very calculated, and again Samuel Adams and

738
00:42:02,200 --> 00:42:05,839
Speaker 3: you know some of these heroes, Samuel Adams, John Hancock,

739
00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:09,319
Speaker 3: these were the major figures and we need to know

740
00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:12,239
Speaker 3: their stories. These were heroes. At John Hancock, I mean

741
00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:13,800
Speaker 3: we kind of think, o, yeah, he signed Declaration of

742
00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:15,759
Speaker 3: Defensive We have no idea how important he was. He

743
00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:20,759
Speaker 3: was so central. Same thing with doctor Joseph Warren, huge name,

744
00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:24,600
Speaker 3: often forgotten. I mean, these are key, key figures, and

745
00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:26,600
Speaker 3: I obviously include all of them in the book because

746
00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:30,360
Speaker 3: we need to know their stories. But the story of

747
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:34,160
Speaker 3: the the t it was really an issue of the

748
00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:37,440
Speaker 3: principle right, Like it was like the T tax was negligible,

749
00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:40,480
Speaker 3: but they basically said, we're not going to be We're

750
00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:43,520
Speaker 3: not going to be suckered into paying attacks that we

751
00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:50,840
Speaker 3: think is is it's wrong, it's morally wrong that we

752
00:42:50,840 --> 00:42:53,719
Speaker 3: would pay attax to Great Britain. We're going to stand

753
00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:56,880
Speaker 3: on principle, we refuse to pay the tax. And the

754
00:42:56,920 --> 00:42:59,359
Speaker 3: British were kind of trying to bribe them, like trying

755
00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:00,839
Speaker 3: to trick them into paying it by saying, oh, we're

756
00:43:00,840 --> 00:43:02,640
Speaker 3: gonna we're going to deflate the price of the tea.

757
00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:04,799
Speaker 3: We're gonna we're gonna make it so low. But we're

758
00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:06,680
Speaker 3: gonna sneak the tax in there, so we're gonna get

759
00:43:06,680 --> 00:43:08,960
Speaker 3: them to pay the tax. And they said, we can't,

760
00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:12,359
Speaker 3: we cannot do this. So they orchestrate this, this this

761
00:43:12,440 --> 00:43:15,520
Speaker 3: moment where they throw the tea into the harbor. I mean,

762
00:43:15,560 --> 00:43:17,520
Speaker 3: I tell the story obviously in detail in the book,

763
00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:20,719
Speaker 3: but it's a it's a major point. It's an extraordinary

764
00:43:20,719 --> 00:43:24,279
Speaker 3: thing that they even planned it out very secretly, so

765
00:43:24,560 --> 00:43:27,840
Speaker 3: secretly that to this day there's much we don't know

766
00:43:27,880 --> 00:43:30,719
Speaker 3: about it because they would not speak. They refused. It's

767
00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:32,759
Speaker 3: like they took an oath, like nobody's going to talk

768
00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:35,400
Speaker 3: about this. I mean, it really was kind of a

769
00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:37,080
Speaker 3: big deal, how secretive they were about it.

770
00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:41,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I'm drinking tea right now as we speak. Ah,

771
00:43:41,440 --> 00:43:47,160
Speaker 1: but it's not British tea. So Thomas Paine wrote a

772
00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:51,520
Speaker 1: forty seven page pamphlet called Common Sense in January of

773
00:43:51,520 --> 00:43:55,880
Speaker 1: seventeen seventy six, and he lays out the corruptions and

774
00:43:55,920 --> 00:44:01,040
Speaker 1: evils of King George's monarchy. What effected that that pamphlet

775
00:44:01,120 --> 00:44:02,160
Speaker 1: have on the Revolution?

776
00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:09,680
Speaker 3: I think I say this in the book, and I

777
00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:11,359
Speaker 3: always joke around. I say like, look, I don't care

778
00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:12,840
Speaker 3: if people read the book, but it wouldn't kill you

779
00:44:12,840 --> 00:44:16,600
Speaker 3: to buy two or three copies. But I say in

780
00:44:16,640 --> 00:44:22,120
Speaker 3: the book that I think Tom Paine's pamphlet Common Sense

781
00:44:23,120 --> 00:44:25,400
Speaker 3: is the clearest example in the history of the world

782
00:44:25,480 --> 00:44:27,399
Speaker 3: of the pen is mightier than the sword. I don't

783
00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:29,520
Speaker 3: think there has ever been anything like it in the

784
00:44:29,560 --> 00:44:33,520
Speaker 3: history of the world. That that pamphlet got Americans in

785
00:44:33,640 --> 00:44:37,480
Speaker 3: January of seventeen seventy six to think about what most

786
00:44:37,520 --> 00:44:41,200
Speaker 3: of them never had thought about before, which was declaring

787
00:44:41,320 --> 00:44:44,480
Speaker 3: independence from Great Britain. They had problems with Great Britain,

788
00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:48,720
Speaker 3: but nobody's talking about independence. Maybe John Adams is thinking

789
00:44:48,760 --> 00:44:51,440
Speaker 3: about it, you know, Benjamin Franklin's thinking about it. But

790
00:44:52,320 --> 00:44:57,200
Speaker 3: most of the average Americans in the colonies, they were

791
00:44:57,200 --> 00:45:01,439
Speaker 3: not thinking about it. So that pamphlet was just an

792
00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:05,880
Speaker 3: amazingly powerful I mean I read it. We read it

793
00:45:05,880 --> 00:45:09,480
Speaker 3: as we were doing these Socrates in the City book clubs,

794
00:45:10,320 --> 00:45:13,080
Speaker 3: which anybody can can start one wherever you are, go

795
00:45:13,080 --> 00:45:15,080
Speaker 3: to SoccerCity dot com. It's kind of a cool thing.

796
00:45:15,120 --> 00:45:17,759
Speaker 3: But we read that together over the course of a

797
00:45:17,800 --> 00:45:20,719
Speaker 3: few weeks. And his language, he just knows how to

798
00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:25,200
Speaker 3: write persuasively and powerfully and that's really what tipped things

799
00:45:25,239 --> 00:45:29,600
Speaker 3: over into like, yes, we're going to declare independence, huge

800
00:45:30,120 --> 00:45:32,080
Speaker 3: departure from where they've been a year earlier.

801
00:45:33,120 --> 00:45:36,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you say that, Payne said the Reformation was

802
00:45:36,719 --> 00:45:41,400
Speaker 1: preceded by the discovery of America. Remind me of why

803
00:45:41,160 --> 00:45:42,680
Speaker 1: that why you said.

804
00:45:42,440 --> 00:45:45,640
Speaker 3: That, Well, this is I mean, this is actually very important.

805
00:45:45,840 --> 00:45:49,920
Speaker 3: Is that the men of the Revolution saw God's hand

806
00:45:50,120 --> 00:45:55,360
Speaker 3: in all of this. They said, God caused America to

807
00:45:55,440 --> 00:45:59,640
Speaker 3: be discovered by the Europeans just in time, so that

808
00:45:59,680 --> 00:46:04,000
Speaker 3: when the Reformation happens, you know, in the fifteen twenties

809
00:46:04,160 --> 00:46:07,520
Speaker 3: and thirties and forties and fifties, that suddenly all those

810
00:46:07,560 --> 00:46:10,480
Speaker 3: who are being persecuted by the state churches in Europe

811
00:46:10,480 --> 00:46:13,000
Speaker 3: they've got a place to go. So starting in sixteen

812
00:46:13,040 --> 00:46:17,000
Speaker 3: twenty and afterward, they're all coming over. And Thomas Paine

813
00:46:17,040 --> 00:46:19,719
Speaker 3: and others saw this as God's providence, that God set

814
00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:23,319
Speaker 3: this up so that all of these serious Christians could

815
00:46:23,400 --> 00:46:28,120
Speaker 3: flee persecution in Europe and form genuine Christian communities where

816
00:46:28,120 --> 00:46:30,319
Speaker 3: they could worship God the way they did. And so

817
00:46:30,360 --> 00:46:32,279
Speaker 3: now it all comes together because they've been doing this

818
00:46:32,320 --> 00:46:35,919
Speaker 3: in the Thirteen Colonies, but now as the British put

819
00:46:35,960 --> 00:46:39,239
Speaker 3: the pressure on the Thirteen colonies. They suddenly unite. They

820
00:46:39,239 --> 00:46:42,840
Speaker 3: were never united, but they unite. And as they unite,

821
00:46:42,840 --> 00:46:45,600
Speaker 3: they're kind of thinking, Hey, is this an opportunity. Is

822
00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:48,200
Speaker 3: this a moment in history where we can link arms

823
00:46:48,239 --> 00:46:53,000
Speaker 3: and create a nation based on these biblical ideas? That

824
00:46:53,120 --> 00:46:56,080
Speaker 3: was never that was not something they had planned. But

825
00:46:56,239 --> 00:47:04,400
Speaker 3: because of the British behavior, they united. Uh. And obviously

826
00:47:04,440 --> 00:47:06,960
Speaker 3: that's exactly what happened. So they really did see God's

827
00:47:07,040 --> 00:47:11,400
Speaker 3: hand in the creation of the United States of America,

828
00:47:12,040 --> 00:47:13,920
Speaker 3: and they saw it as God's way of saying, this

829
00:47:13,960 --> 00:47:16,560
Speaker 3: is what I want governments to be like, where people

830
00:47:16,600 --> 00:47:19,560
Speaker 3: look to me directly and govern themselves. They saw it

831
00:47:19,600 --> 00:47:21,960
Speaker 3: that way explicitly. And I you know, again, that needs

832
00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:25,319
Speaker 3: to be taught in schools. That's true American history. That's

833
00:47:25,360 --> 00:47:29,600
Speaker 3: not Christian history, that's American history. And Thomas Paine lays

834
00:47:29,640 --> 00:47:32,760
Speaker 3: that out in his pamphlet Common Sense.

835
00:47:33,680 --> 00:47:37,319
Speaker 1: And you say that this is I mean, I think

836
00:47:37,360 --> 00:47:39,920
Speaker 1: this is well. I had John G. West On here

837
00:47:41,120 --> 00:47:43,320
Speaker 1: recently and he I don't know if he agrees with this,

838
00:47:43,440 --> 00:47:46,759
Speaker 1: but you say that Benjamin Franklin was the one who

839
00:47:46,920 --> 00:47:50,840
Speaker 1: changed in the Declaration of Independence Thomas Jefferson's line we

840
00:47:50,920 --> 00:47:53,960
Speaker 1: hold these truths to be sacred and undeniable.

841
00:47:54,120 --> 00:47:58,040
Speaker 3: And Franklin changed it. Ben Franklin, Yeah, Thomas Jefferson. I mean,

842
00:47:58,080 --> 00:47:59,839
Speaker 3: it's kind of funny. We don't have enough time here,

843
00:47:59,880 --> 00:48:02,719
Speaker 3: but I could go on and on about uh, you know,

844
00:48:02,760 --> 00:48:04,200
Speaker 3: if you want to have me back to quiz me

845
00:48:04,239 --> 00:48:07,920
Speaker 3: on the second half of the book anytime, I would

846
00:48:07,920 --> 00:48:11,799
Speaker 3: love to come on anytime. But but I think there's

847
00:48:11,800 --> 00:48:14,160
Speaker 3: a lot to be said about Declaration of Independence, where

848
00:48:14,160 --> 00:48:16,400
Speaker 3: people say Thomas Jefferson wrote the Declaration of Ptendens and

849
00:48:16,440 --> 00:48:21,879
Speaker 3: I feel like saying, no, no, he didn't. He They

850
00:48:21,920 --> 00:48:24,839
Speaker 3: gave him everything that they wanted him to say, and yes,

851
00:48:24,960 --> 00:48:29,200
Speaker 3: he came up with the beautiful, brilliant poetic formulation. You know,

852
00:48:29,320 --> 00:48:32,840
Speaker 3: a few phrases like, you know, we hold these truths

853
00:48:32,840 --> 00:48:34,160
Speaker 3: to be self definant, that you know, all men are

854
00:48:34,200 --> 00:48:36,880
Speaker 3: created equal. I mean, but it's not like these ideas

855
00:48:36,920 --> 00:48:39,520
Speaker 3: were original to him. He just kind of formulated them,

856
00:48:39,719 --> 00:48:44,640
Speaker 3: but specifically that phrase he wrote, we hold these truths

857
00:48:44,760 --> 00:48:50,760
Speaker 3: to be sacred and undeniable, and Benjamin Franklin said, uh, nope,

858
00:48:51,800 --> 00:48:53,279
Speaker 3: just change it too, we hold these shoths to be

859
00:48:53,320 --> 00:48:56,440
Speaker 3: self evident. So there's a whole story there. But that's

860
00:48:56,480 --> 00:48:58,879
Speaker 3: that's true. It's kind of amazing to think that that's

861
00:48:58,880 --> 00:49:00,759
Speaker 3: Benjamin Franklin. Yeah.

862
00:49:00,800 --> 00:49:03,680
Speaker 1: And then two last questions there. You you say that

863
00:49:03,719 --> 00:49:06,320
Speaker 1: we celebrate independence on July fourth, but it could have

864
00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:10,880
Speaker 1: been July second or August second. Why are those dates

865
00:49:10,920 --> 00:49:11,799
Speaker 1: so important?

866
00:49:12,960 --> 00:49:21,960
Speaker 3: Well, July second is the day that Congress voted to

867
00:49:22,040 --> 00:49:24,720
Speaker 3: be independent. So that's really the day that John Adams

868
00:49:24,719 --> 00:49:27,560
Speaker 3: he writes these big letters to Abigail that you know,

869
00:49:28,080 --> 00:49:30,799
Speaker 3: we should celebrate this forever, and you know, with with

870
00:49:30,920 --> 00:49:36,440
Speaker 3: bonfires and illuminations and fireworks and acts of solemn devotion

871
00:49:36,520 --> 00:49:38,000
Speaker 3: to God and whatever. He thought it's all going to

872
00:49:38,040 --> 00:49:41,160
Speaker 3: happen in July second. The reason it didn't is because

873
00:49:41,480 --> 00:49:45,920
Speaker 3: on July third and July fourth, Congress debated the actual

874
00:49:46,080 --> 00:49:50,040
Speaker 3: text of the Declaration of Independence. They already declared independence,

875
00:49:50,400 --> 00:49:52,839
Speaker 3: but they said, we have to say it officially. What's

876
00:49:52,840 --> 00:49:56,320
Speaker 3: our official statement. That's what we call the declaration of Independence.

877
00:49:56,320 --> 00:49:58,520
Speaker 3: It's like the birth certificate. So like we did it,

878
00:49:59,000 --> 00:50:01,200
Speaker 3: you know, the Mother gave earth, but now we need

879
00:50:01,239 --> 00:50:03,000
Speaker 3: a piece of paper that kind of lays it out.

880
00:50:03,640 --> 00:50:06,640
Speaker 3: And so they debate that on the third and the fourth,

881
00:50:06,680 --> 00:50:09,920
Speaker 3: and they approve it finally on the fourth. And so

882
00:50:11,560 --> 00:50:15,160
Speaker 3: they then say, okay, we have made this declaration, but

883
00:50:15,239 --> 00:50:17,560
Speaker 3: we need to have an official version of it. So

884
00:50:17,600 --> 00:50:20,120
Speaker 3: they send it out to somebody to to create what's

885
00:50:20,160 --> 00:50:23,560
Speaker 3: called the engrossed version, this beautiful engrossed version of it.

886
00:50:24,400 --> 00:50:26,760
Speaker 3: And of course at the top they write July fourth,

887
00:50:26,840 --> 00:50:31,480
Speaker 3: you know, but that is not signed officially until August second.

888
00:50:32,120 --> 00:50:34,640
Speaker 3: So when we see the painting of all of them,

889
00:50:34,640 --> 00:50:37,239
Speaker 3: Benjamin Franklin, all this standing there and they're signing it,

890
00:50:37,880 --> 00:50:41,319
Speaker 3: that happened on August second, not on July fourth. So

891
00:50:41,960 --> 00:50:45,080
Speaker 3: that's one of the fun things about writing the book

892
00:50:45,120 --> 00:50:48,279
Speaker 3: for me, is discovering these things and really understanding this

893
00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:50,480
Speaker 3: is exactly how it went down. And it's kind of

894
00:50:50,480 --> 00:50:53,040
Speaker 3: fun to know the real the real story, you know,

895
00:50:53,160 --> 00:50:56,560
Speaker 3: and it's not unimportant, it's interesting. Yeah.

896
00:50:56,600 --> 00:51:01,879
Speaker 1: And so so finally in the epilogue, you say, I mean,

897
00:51:01,880 --> 00:51:07,040
Speaker 1: these are famous sayings, but Benjamin Franklin famously declared that

898
00:51:07,080 --> 00:51:11,239
Speaker 1: we would only could only maintain the republic if we

899
00:51:11,400 --> 00:51:15,640
Speaker 1: the people can keep it. John Adams said our constitution

900
00:51:15,840 --> 00:51:18,840
Speaker 1: was made only for a moral and religious people, it

901
00:51:18,920 --> 00:51:22,200
Speaker 1: is inadequate to the government of any other. My question

902
00:51:22,280 --> 00:51:25,440
Speaker 1: to you is are you optimistic about the next two

903
00:51:25,560 --> 00:51:27,600
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty years of this experiment?

904
00:51:29,040 --> 00:51:32,439
Speaker 3: Well, boy, there's so much to be said just on

905
00:51:32,560 --> 00:51:35,320
Speaker 3: those quotes. I mean, I think that the short answer

906
00:51:35,360 --> 00:51:38,520
Speaker 3: is yes. But I say that we're in a war now,

907
00:51:38,880 --> 00:51:41,799
Speaker 3: just as we were in the Revolution, where you have

908
00:51:41,880 --> 00:51:45,520
Speaker 3: to fight. We are not like out of the woods

909
00:51:45,560 --> 00:51:49,040
Speaker 3: by any means. We're in the woods. We are fighting.

910
00:51:49,520 --> 00:51:51,400
Speaker 3: And I think if we fight and pray, and I

911
00:51:51,400 --> 00:51:53,720
Speaker 3: think we need revival, and I think we were seeing

912
00:51:53,719 --> 00:51:57,080
Speaker 3: the beginnings of real revival. Apart from that, you cannot

913
00:51:57,080 --> 00:51:59,480
Speaker 3: have the liberties that we have, and we've drifted very far.

914
00:51:59,600 --> 00:52:01,360
Speaker 3: It's why I wrote the book. That's why I really

915
00:52:01,360 --> 00:52:03,719
Speaker 3: do want everybody to read the book. We need to

916
00:52:03,760 --> 00:52:06,239
Speaker 3: know this. This is not for history buffs. This is

917
00:52:06,280 --> 00:52:09,919
Speaker 3: for every American. Needs to know our story. It will

918
00:52:10,000 --> 00:52:14,360
Speaker 3: change you. It's important that you understand this. And I

919
00:52:14,400 --> 00:52:17,279
Speaker 3: think that if we don't understand this, if people don't know,

920
00:52:17,960 --> 00:52:20,800
Speaker 3: you know, what's in this book, we lose the country.

921
00:52:20,840 --> 00:52:26,240
Speaker 3: You can't have America with people not understanding this stuff.

922
00:52:26,280 --> 00:52:29,680
Speaker 3: This is central. Everybody needs to get this because we

923
00:52:29,760 --> 00:52:30,920
Speaker 3: used to get this. I mean, if you put a

924
00:52:30,960 --> 00:52:34,760
Speaker 3: microphone on somebody's face in nineteen sixty, everybody knew everything

925
00:52:34,800 --> 00:52:37,239
Speaker 3: that's in my book in nineteen sixty. We've forgotten it

926
00:52:37,239 --> 00:52:40,200
Speaker 3: in the last sixty or seventy years, and that is

927
00:52:40,280 --> 00:52:42,880
Speaker 3: why things are so messed up. That's why we're opening

928
00:52:42,960 --> 00:52:48,120
Speaker 3: the door to socialism or Islamo fascism, and because people

929
00:52:48,160 --> 00:52:51,640
Speaker 3: don't understand you can't have liberty if you let that

930
00:52:51,719 --> 00:52:55,439
Speaker 3: stuff in that's antithetical, that will crush liberty. Good buye

931
00:52:55,480 --> 00:52:59,399
Speaker 3: liberty that can't coexist with liberty. You need to understand that.

932
00:52:59,440 --> 00:53:02,880
Speaker 3: We needed to understand that the founders all understood this,

933
00:53:03,800 --> 00:53:06,480
Speaker 3: and most Americans understood it, but we have really forgotten

934
00:53:06,480 --> 00:53:08,680
Speaker 3: in the last fifty or sixty years. So to me,

935
00:53:08,800 --> 00:53:12,440
Speaker 3: this is mandatory. We need to know this stuff and

936
00:53:12,480 --> 00:53:14,200
Speaker 3: you're not going to get it from watching Ken Burns's

937
00:53:14,280 --> 00:53:18,000
Speaker 3: PBS documentary, which is horrible. I mean, I had to

938
00:53:18,040 --> 00:53:23,520
Speaker 3: watch it, and I got to tell you, it's almost

939
00:53:23,640 --> 00:53:26,880
Speaker 3: unbelievable that you could tell the story of the American

940
00:53:26,920 --> 00:53:32,640
Speaker 3: Revolution and miss practically everything you and I have just

941
00:53:32,719 --> 00:53:36,319
Speaker 3: talked about. I mean, it's absolutely mind blowing. That you

942
00:53:36,320 --> 00:53:38,239
Speaker 3: could also even tell the story in such a way

943
00:53:38,239 --> 00:53:40,560
Speaker 3: that you go, eh, like, I don't know, Like I

944
00:53:40,560 --> 00:53:46,200
Speaker 3: don't really see this as some amazing accomplishment. I always say,

945
00:53:46,239 --> 00:53:47,720
Speaker 3: it's like if you did a remake of the Rocky

946
00:53:47,840 --> 00:53:49,400
Speaker 3: movie and you walked out of the theater and you

947
00:53:49,440 --> 00:53:51,200
Speaker 3: go like, I don't know who the hero was. I'm

948
00:53:51,239 --> 00:53:55,040
Speaker 3: not really clear on who was the hero. You'd be like, really,

949
00:53:55,120 --> 00:53:57,200
Speaker 3: how can you tell that story and not see this

950
00:53:57,360 --> 00:54:00,400
Speaker 3: as like one of the greatest stories ever. And the

951
00:54:00,400 --> 00:54:02,799
Speaker 3: Americans are fighting against all odds. They should have lost

952
00:54:02,800 --> 00:54:05,960
Speaker 3: and they won, and Washington is this monster figure. It's

953
00:54:05,960 --> 00:54:10,239
Speaker 3: amazing figure. And I really feel like Americans, we need

954
00:54:10,280 --> 00:54:12,480
Speaker 3: to know our story. We need to celebrate our story.

955
00:54:12,520 --> 00:54:14,279
Speaker 3: We need to rejoice in it and teach it to

956
00:54:14,320 --> 00:54:16,759
Speaker 3: our kids. And you know, and I I really do

957
00:54:16,840 --> 00:54:19,520
Speaker 3: hope that you know a lot of homeschoolers, as I

958
00:54:19,560 --> 00:54:21,719
Speaker 3: think I mentioned, are saying that we're going to use

959
00:54:21,719 --> 00:54:24,960
Speaker 3: this as a textbook because it's like this is I

960
00:54:25,239 --> 00:54:27,600
Speaker 3: didn't try to correct wrongs, but as I said, a

961
00:54:27,640 --> 00:54:29,720
Speaker 3: lot of these wrongs have crept into the point where

962
00:54:30,280 --> 00:54:32,840
Speaker 3: most Americans don't know this, and it's like, that's really bad.

963
00:54:32,960 --> 00:54:36,120
Speaker 3: So I you know, I'll spend a rest of my

964
00:54:36,160 --> 00:54:37,120
Speaker 3: life talking about this.

965
00:54:37,800 --> 00:54:40,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, amen, I amen, the guys, the book is revolution,

966
00:54:41,520 --> 00:54:43,799
Speaker 1: the birth of the greatest nation in the history of

967
00:54:43,840 --> 00:54:47,279
Speaker 1: the world. And thank you Eric Matexas for writing this

968
00:54:47,480 --> 00:54:49,400
Speaker 1: and for coming on the show to talk.

969
00:54:49,280 --> 00:54:52,719
Speaker 3: About well, thank you for asking me these hard questions

970
00:54:52,760 --> 00:54:55,960
Speaker 3: because I now I know that I have to reread

971
00:54:56,000 --> 00:54:56,440
Speaker 3: my book.

972
00:54:56,800 --> 00:54:58,400
Speaker 1: Just now your book.

973
00:54:58,640 --> 00:55:02,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I listen. I'm glad you and you like

974
00:55:02,239 --> 00:55:04,759
Speaker 3: the book, and I might. The greatest thing that has

975
00:55:04,800 --> 00:55:06,680
Speaker 3: happened to me is people keep saying to me, like,

976
00:55:07,719 --> 00:55:09,719
Speaker 3: you know, they enjoyed reading it. They couldn't put it

977
00:55:09,760 --> 00:55:11,080
Speaker 3: down like me. You know, when you're writing a book

978
00:55:11,120 --> 00:55:12,919
Speaker 3: like this, you're worry is that people are going to say,

979
00:55:13,520 --> 00:55:16,000
Speaker 3: you know, I didn't want to I didn't feel like

980
00:55:16,080 --> 00:55:19,680
Speaker 3: reading it, but I'm just reading the Amazon reviews. Has

981
00:55:19,719 --> 00:55:22,319
Speaker 3: been very gratifying to me that, you know, because I

982
00:55:22,360 --> 00:55:25,719
Speaker 3: think history should be exciting. It shouldn't just be like,

983
00:55:25,800 --> 00:55:29,839
Speaker 3: you know, you eat your porridge, but on the other hand,

984
00:55:30,120 --> 00:55:33,120
Speaker 3: eat your porridge because it's important. So yeah, thank you,

985
00:55:33,480 --> 00:55:34,279
Speaker 3: thank you so much.

986
00:55:34,560 --> 00:55:36,479
Speaker 1: Let's keep it on the bestseller The New York Times

987
00:55:36,480 --> 00:55:38,799
Speaker 1: Bestseller list for another seven weeks at least.

988
00:55:38,719 --> 00:55:39,279
Speaker 3: But I hope.

989
00:55:39,360 --> 00:55:42,600
Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you, wait, don't touch that dial. Please

990
00:55:42,800 --> 00:55:46,280
Speaker 1: like and subscribe, and also please consider becoming a patron

991
00:55:46,360 --> 00:55:49,439
Speaker 1: on Patreon. For as little as five dollars a month,

992
00:55:49,480 --> 00:55:51,880
Speaker 1: you can really help us out on the show. The

993
00:55:51,920 --> 00:55:55,080
Speaker 1: link is below and we so so appreciate it.

994
00:55:55,120 --> 00:56:00,279
Speaker 2: Thank you, Thank you for listening to this episode of

995
00:56:00,320 --> 00:56:03,960
Speaker 2: The Beckett Cook Show. Your support makes this content possible.

996
00:56:05,280 --> 00:56:08,400
Speaker 2: All episodes of The Beckett Cook Show are also available

997
00:56:08,440 --> 00:56:12,440
Speaker 2: on YouTube. For more information about Beckett and his ministry,

998
00:56:12,880 --> 00:56:16,560
Speaker 2: visit his website at Becketcook dot com.

999
00:56:16,719 --> 00:56:18,640
Speaker 1: Thank you to the team at Life Audio for their

1000
00:56:18,680 --> 00:56:21,640
Speaker 1: partnership with us. If you go to lifeaudio dot com,

1001
00:56:21,680 --> 00:56:25,760
Speaker 1: you will find more faith centered podcasts about prayer, Bible study, parenting,

1002
00:56:25,800 --> 00:56:26,160
Speaker 1: and more.