1 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:06,920 Speaker 1: Life Audio because for me, I can't wait. I want 2 00:00:06,960 --> 00:00:11,280 Speaker 1: it to be fixed. Yes now, yes, And rather than 3 00:00:11,640 --> 00:00:14,480 Speaker 1: waiting and seeing how God's going to work, which he 4 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:17,360 Speaker 1: could resolve it far better than I could resolve it, 5 00:00:17,440 --> 00:00:19,040 Speaker 1: and we just want it now. 6 00:00:19,200 --> 00:00:20,880 Speaker 2: We want things now. 7 00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:23,760 Speaker 3: Welcome to the Faith Over Fear podcast, where we share 8 00:00:23,920 --> 00:00:27,800 Speaker 3: powerful truths to quiet anxiety and fear big and small. 9 00:00:28,080 --> 00:00:32,840 Speaker 3: I'm Carol McCracken, and we're continuing our new series Relational Piece, 10 00:00:33,159 --> 00:00:36,600 Speaker 3: because let's be honest, some of our greatest anxiety doesn't 11 00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:41,240 Speaker 3: come from circumstances. It comes from people. Misunderstandings and hurt 12 00:00:41,320 --> 00:00:45,440 Speaker 3: feelings and family tensions, conflicts that we didn't see coming. 13 00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:49,440 Speaker 3: These moments might replay in a conversation in our minds 14 00:00:49,800 --> 00:00:53,440 Speaker 3: restraight days, wondering what we should have said. In this series, 15 00:00:53,560 --> 00:00:56,960 Speaker 3: we're talking about how to deal with relationships with people. 16 00:00:57,280 --> 00:01:00,880 Speaker 3: Sounds obvious, but some people are off from the source 17 00:01:01,040 --> 00:01:04,360 Speaker 3: of stress if you think about it. Today's episode is 18 00:01:04,440 --> 00:01:08,880 Speaker 3: especially practical because we're discussing how to respond instead of 19 00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:13,360 Speaker 3: react in difficult relationships. If you've ever sent that text 20 00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:18,679 Speaker 3: too quickly, raised your voice before thinking, replay an argument 21 00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:22,600 Speaker 3: all night, or wished you could take back words after 22 00:01:22,600 --> 00:01:26,319 Speaker 3: an emotional moment. Today's conversations for you and joining me 23 00:01:26,440 --> 00:01:31,360 Speaker 3: today is Bible study teacher and author Kathy Howard, who's 24 00:01:31,400 --> 00:01:34,760 Speaker 3: wisdom and honesty brings so much clarity to this topic. 25 00:01:34,959 --> 00:01:37,800 Speaker 2: Hey, Kathy, like Carol, good to see you. 26 00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:40,840 Speaker 3: I am so glad you're here today because I know 27 00:01:40,880 --> 00:01:43,639 Speaker 3: we're going to have the best conversation. What I would 28 00:01:43,720 --> 00:01:45,800 Speaker 3: like to know, first of all, just to lay it 29 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:50,000 Speaker 3: out in your opinion, what's the difference between responding and reacting? 30 00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:53,680 Speaker 1: Well, reacting is what I have done too terribly often 31 00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:55,440 Speaker 1: instead of responding. 32 00:01:55,440 --> 00:01:57,880 Speaker 2: And I think reacting is. 33 00:01:57,920 --> 00:02:02,520 Speaker 1: All about me, it's all about self and responding is 34 00:02:02,600 --> 00:02:08,639 Speaker 1: taking the time to consider the person to whom we're responding. Well, 35 00:02:08,680 --> 00:02:12,280 Speaker 1: I think it's reacting, and I have done it more 36 00:02:12,280 --> 00:02:14,920 Speaker 1: times than I want to even think about. Is that 37 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:18,120 Speaker 1: it's but you have said something that hurts me, and 38 00:02:18,160 --> 00:02:20,280 Speaker 1: I'm mad and I want you to understand what I'm 39 00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:24,000 Speaker 1: saying and it comes totally from my own self interest. 40 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:26,040 Speaker 3: And it's kind of the first thing we cling to, 41 00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:30,919 Speaker 3: isn't it. There's fears there the thing you were alluding 42 00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:33,240 Speaker 3: to it I want to say what I mean there's 43 00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:37,080 Speaker 3: a fear for me, at least of being misunderstood, you know, 44 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:39,640 Speaker 3: I didn't mean I think I said, or of not 45 00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:42,400 Speaker 3: being heard. Can you speak to that a little bit? 46 00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:45,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, and for sure I do that too. You think 47 00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:49,080 Speaker 1: if you can just get them to understand you, that 48 00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:52,200 Speaker 1: it's going to change the way they feel about things. 49 00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:54,240 Speaker 2: And so if you could just be. 50 00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:57,960 Speaker 1: Quiet and listen to me for a mine, you will 51 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:02,919 Speaker 1: see this so differently. And this is our default as 52 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:06,680 Speaker 1: human beings. I want to make sure I'm taken care 53 00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:09,000 Speaker 1: of who else is going to take care of me 54 00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:10,400 Speaker 1: besides me? 55 00:03:11,400 --> 00:03:11,680 Speaker 2: Right? 56 00:03:12,080 --> 00:03:14,560 Speaker 1: And I really feel like in thinking about the times 57 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:18,800 Speaker 1: that I've reacted rather than responded, that's exactly what I've 58 00:03:18,840 --> 00:03:19,320 Speaker 1: been doing. 59 00:03:19,440 --> 00:03:20,639 Speaker 2: It's self preservation. 60 00:03:20,800 --> 00:03:25,200 Speaker 3: As you said, Yeah, I thought this would be such 61 00:03:25,200 --> 00:03:28,080 Speaker 3: a good conversation. As you mentioned that sometimes there's a 62 00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:31,960 Speaker 3: bit of preparation involved. You spoke about a little hesitation 63 00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:36,040 Speaker 3: perhaps to change focus. But there's something that you talked 64 00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:41,960 Speaker 3: about called walking in this spit. More conflict happens, right. 65 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:45,040 Speaker 2: Because we never know when conflict's going to come. 66 00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:49,680 Speaker 1: Yes, sometimes we can anticipate that conversation we know we 67 00:03:49,760 --> 00:03:53,800 Speaker 1: need to have or whatever, But too often it comes 68 00:03:53,840 --> 00:03:56,880 Speaker 1: out of left field. We're surprised by it, and so 69 00:03:57,240 --> 00:04:01,480 Speaker 1: if we are not prepared for it, we are absolutely 70 00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:06,280 Speaker 1: going to respond out of our own self every time. So, 71 00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:12,520 Speaker 1: particularly as a Christian, I need to regularly be seeking 72 00:04:12,600 --> 00:04:14,600 Speaker 1: God's will for all of my life. 73 00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:16,080 Speaker 2: I need to learn how. 74 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:19,800 Speaker 1: And this is Galatians, the Book of Galatians itself, the 75 00:04:19,880 --> 00:04:24,760 Speaker 1: whole thing. Paul contrasts what it looks like to live 76 00:04:24,920 --> 00:04:30,320 Speaker 1: following our own self versus living following the Holy Spirit. 77 00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:34,120 Speaker 1: And if we're following ourself, we are giving into our 78 00:04:34,160 --> 00:04:35,360 Speaker 1: own sinful desires. 79 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:39,360 Speaker 2: We're letting our old nature dictate what we do, what 80 00:04:39,400 --> 00:04:41,080 Speaker 2: we say, what we go after. 81 00:04:42,080 --> 00:04:46,600 Speaker 1: And it's only when we deny ourselves and start learning 82 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:51,440 Speaker 1: how to recognize the leading and guidance of. 83 00:04:51,400 --> 00:04:52,200 Speaker 2: The Holy Spirit. 84 00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:55,200 Speaker 1: That's not something we can just in a moment say, oh, 85 00:04:55,240 --> 00:04:58,279 Speaker 1: I better follow the Spirit on this one. It's something 86 00:04:58,320 --> 00:05:03,280 Speaker 1: that we have to cultivate. It's only over time that 87 00:05:03,520 --> 00:05:06,920 Speaker 1: we learn to become more and more sensitive to how 88 00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:10,160 Speaker 1: the Holy Spirit is leading, and so we have to 89 00:05:10,320 --> 00:05:12,320 Speaker 1: prepare for that every single day. 90 00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:17,040 Speaker 3: Well, some people think that self control begins in that 91 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:21,520 Speaker 3: conflict moment, but it really starts long before the conversation happens, 92 00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:24,320 Speaker 3: as you're talking about how do he get to Galatians? 93 00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:27,839 Speaker 3: Is it scripture memorization for you? Is it steady? 94 00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:28,520 Speaker 2: Well? 95 00:05:28,640 --> 00:05:32,560 Speaker 1: To recognize the things of the spirit, we need to 96 00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:36,080 Speaker 1: be able to recognize God's character, and the way we 97 00:05:36,120 --> 00:05:39,640 Speaker 1: do that is by being regularly in his word. He 98 00:05:39,760 --> 00:05:43,720 Speaker 1: has revealed himself to us in the Bible, and if 99 00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:47,280 Speaker 1: we're never in scripture, the Holy Spirit and the way 100 00:05:47,279 --> 00:05:49,880 Speaker 1: he works is going to be completely foreign to us. 101 00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:55,920 Speaker 1: But the more that we learn to recognize God's character 102 00:05:55,960 --> 00:06:01,040 Speaker 1: and how he's working, and also to recognize our sinful self, 103 00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:05,200 Speaker 1: in other words, the motivations and the attitudes that are 104 00:06:05,240 --> 00:06:08,600 Speaker 1: opposed to God's character, those are the things that when 105 00:06:08,640 --> 00:06:11,720 Speaker 1: they pop up, we set aside, recognizing, oh no, that's 106 00:06:11,760 --> 00:06:14,039 Speaker 1: my sinful nature wanting to lead me. 107 00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:16,320 Speaker 2: I need to die to that. 108 00:06:16,440 --> 00:06:21,000 Speaker 1: In other words, reject that and follow the Holy Spirit's leading. 109 00:06:21,640 --> 00:06:24,760 Speaker 3: So you're saying then that it is a process if 110 00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:27,039 Speaker 3: you will, of surrender. 111 00:06:27,080 --> 00:06:28,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, in spiritual sanctification. 112 00:06:29,240 --> 00:06:32,479 Speaker 3: So talk about that in non Christian terms. What's that mean? 113 00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:33,520 Speaker 2: Surrender? 114 00:06:33,960 --> 00:06:34,279 Speaker 3: Yes? 115 00:06:34,480 --> 00:06:37,120 Speaker 2: So I love Luke nine twenty three. 116 00:06:37,760 --> 00:06:41,080 Speaker 1: Jesus said, here's a whoever for you, Carol, whoever would 117 00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:44,200 Speaker 1: come after me, Let him deny himself, take up his 118 00:06:44,320 --> 00:06:48,039 Speaker 1: cross and follow me. So this is Jesus's description of 119 00:06:48,120 --> 00:06:51,279 Speaker 1: what it looks like to live a life following him. 120 00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:51,839 Speaker 2: To be a Christian. 121 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:56,960 Speaker 1: It looks like denying our own sinful self, take up 122 00:06:56,960 --> 00:07:00,000 Speaker 1: our cross, which represents Jesus's full of bee. 123 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:02,400 Speaker 2: To the Father, and follow him. 124 00:07:02,440 --> 00:07:04,560 Speaker 1: So this is hard to say, but if we've been 125 00:07:04,640 --> 00:07:08,320 Speaker 1: saved by Jesus's sacrifice, we don't belong to ourselves. It's 126 00:07:08,360 --> 00:07:12,040 Speaker 1: our obligation. In fact, I wish I could remember where 127 00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:14,960 Speaker 1: Paul wrote this. We are no longer obligated to the law. 128 00:07:15,200 --> 00:07:18,960 Speaker 1: In other words, we're no longer obligated to try to 129 00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:23,400 Speaker 1: do everything right or wrong in and of ourself. But 130 00:07:24,560 --> 00:07:28,840 Speaker 1: simply we are obligated to Grace, to following the spirit 131 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:30,640 Speaker 1: and doing as he leads. 132 00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:34,000 Speaker 3: So you're saying that it's not something that we can 133 00:07:34,080 --> 00:07:35,440 Speaker 3: accomplish on our own. 134 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:37,160 Speaker 2: Oh, we can't out. 135 00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:39,040 Speaker 1: And you know what, if you think about it, there's 136 00:07:39,080 --> 00:07:42,440 Speaker 1: a lot of freedom in thinking you you know, I can't, 137 00:07:43,120 --> 00:07:46,520 Speaker 1: which Paul talks about the freedom in that Egalations. He 138 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:49,280 Speaker 1: mentions that over and over again and this is key 139 00:07:49,840 --> 00:07:50,960 Speaker 1: in our relationships. 140 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:52,240 Speaker 2: I can't do that. 141 00:07:52,440 --> 00:07:57,840 Speaker 1: I can't respond graciously and kindly from myself because I'm 142 00:07:58,080 --> 00:08:01,360 Speaker 1: broken and I can all we do it with God's 143 00:08:01,520 --> 00:08:05,240 Speaker 1: help and grace and love, particularly when it's somebody who's 144 00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:09,600 Speaker 1: extremely difficult. It's easy enough when it's just a miscommunication, 145 00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:13,800 Speaker 1: but when you're dealing with somebody that is difficult in 146 00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:16,600 Speaker 1: their own right yet only God. 147 00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:19,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, you've got to lean on him. 148 00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:22,000 Speaker 2: So absolutely there's some freedom there. 149 00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:25,200 Speaker 1: I like that, Yeah, because then you can say, oh, 150 00:08:25,240 --> 00:08:27,840 Speaker 1: I don't have to be able to do it. 151 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:31,760 Speaker 3: Not the expectation is different. So you got to kind 152 00:08:31,760 --> 00:08:35,880 Speaker 3: of prepare in order to have a healthy relationship that's daily. 153 00:08:35,920 --> 00:08:38,000 Speaker 1: Doing what Jesus said do if we want to go 154 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:41,719 Speaker 1: after him is just living a life following Christ by 155 00:08:41,720 --> 00:08:42,480 Speaker 1: the Holy Spirit. 156 00:08:43,400 --> 00:08:47,880 Speaker 3: So what are some practical ways to slow down emotionally 157 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:48,920 Speaker 3: before responding? 158 00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:52,520 Speaker 1: Ooh, you know, I cannot tell you the number of 159 00:08:52,559 --> 00:08:56,080 Speaker 1: times when something is upset me and I want to 160 00:08:56,800 --> 00:08:59,720 Speaker 1: voice it to the whole world that I started writing 161 00:08:59,760 --> 00:09:03,960 Speaker 1: a post or whatever, and I started to listen to 162 00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:06,240 Speaker 1: the Holy Spirit the whole time I'm writing. The Holy 163 00:09:06,280 --> 00:09:10,080 Speaker 1: Spirit is saying it's really not very gracious or kind 164 00:09:10,200 --> 00:09:13,080 Speaker 1: or think about what the results of this might be. 165 00:09:13,600 --> 00:09:16,719 Speaker 2: And so I have deleted many things before I hit 166 00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:17,280 Speaker 2: a post. 167 00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:23,160 Speaker 1: I have composed an entire, you know, multi paragraph and 168 00:09:23,400 --> 00:09:27,280 Speaker 1: deleted it before I click post, because the whole time 169 00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:30,400 Speaker 1: I'm writing, the Holy Spirit's trying to get my attention right, 170 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:34,320 Speaker 1: and thank Goodness the times that he did. 171 00:09:34,160 --> 00:09:35,360 Speaker 2: Finally get my attention. 172 00:09:35,800 --> 00:09:38,679 Speaker 1: But I have learned, and I don't do it every time, 173 00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:41,920 Speaker 1: but I have learned sometimes I just literally have to 174 00:09:42,520 --> 00:09:45,640 Speaker 1: clench my teeth to get to stop from responding. If 175 00:09:45,640 --> 00:09:49,199 Speaker 1: there's an email, it's way easier to do. If it's 176 00:09:49,240 --> 00:09:50,280 Speaker 1: an email or. 177 00:09:50,400 --> 00:09:52,600 Speaker 2: Text that comes in that upsets you. 178 00:09:52,760 --> 00:09:55,720 Speaker 1: I have learned to leave it to the next day 179 00:09:56,040 --> 00:09:59,280 Speaker 1: or a couple of hours until I calm down and 180 00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:01,720 Speaker 1: have an oper oportunity to pray and ask God how 181 00:10:01,760 --> 00:10:04,719 Speaker 1: I should respond to it. And He is so faithful 182 00:10:04,880 --> 00:10:08,120 Speaker 1: to do that, and sometimes if I feel it's appropriate 183 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:11,560 Speaker 1: after I've prayed. My husband is so wise, and not 184 00:10:11,640 --> 00:10:12,319 Speaker 1: that we don't. 185 00:10:12,160 --> 00:10:13,079 Speaker 2: Have our own conflicts. 186 00:10:13,120 --> 00:10:16,320 Speaker 1: We do, but I think it's great for us to 187 00:10:16,559 --> 00:10:19,800 Speaker 1: have someone to where we can seek godly counsel. 188 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:23,040 Speaker 2: And we have to be very careful. This is not gossip. 189 00:10:23,200 --> 00:10:26,040 Speaker 1: This is truly when we're seeking God and don't know 190 00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:28,400 Speaker 1: how to respond to something, We don't know how to 191 00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:32,120 Speaker 1: handle a situation, to have that person that is safe, 192 00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:36,800 Speaker 1: that is godly, that can help you think through a wise, 193 00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:40,920 Speaker 1: godly response. For me, my husband is that person. And 194 00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:42,720 Speaker 1: I think a lot of this is because he's. 195 00:10:42,600 --> 00:10:44,880 Speaker 2: A man and not a woman. He's able to not 196 00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:46,199 Speaker 2: respond emotionally. 197 00:10:46,559 --> 00:10:46,920 Speaker 3: Yeah. 198 00:10:47,320 --> 00:10:49,199 Speaker 1: I have also learned, and I'm old, you and I 199 00:10:49,280 --> 00:10:52,080 Speaker 1: we're talking about this before you hit record about me 200 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:53,120 Speaker 1: feeling a bit. 201 00:10:53,559 --> 00:10:54,400 Speaker 2: I am getting old. 202 00:10:54,400 --> 00:10:57,200 Speaker 1: But one thing I've learned over the years is to 203 00:10:57,360 --> 00:11:01,800 Speaker 1: identify my emotions, like why am I so upset about this? 204 00:11:01,880 --> 00:11:04,240 Speaker 2: Am I angry? Is my pride hurt? 205 00:11:04,360 --> 00:11:09,480 Speaker 1: If we can identify those emotions and bring that to God, 206 00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:12,560 Speaker 1: that is very helpful and why I'm responding this way, 207 00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:14,040 Speaker 1: but identifying the emotions. 208 00:11:14,440 --> 00:11:18,000 Speaker 2: If it's a face to face thing and you. 209 00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:21,160 Speaker 1: Can't walk away and you have to respond, right, then 210 00:11:21,280 --> 00:11:21,959 Speaker 1: that's harder. 211 00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:24,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, because you don't have the time. 212 00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:25,040 Speaker 2: Do you. 213 00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:27,640 Speaker 1: You don't have the time, which is why I've had 214 00:11:27,679 --> 00:11:28,720 Speaker 1: to go back to people. 215 00:11:28,559 --> 00:11:30,320 Speaker 2: And apologize so many times. 216 00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:32,640 Speaker 1: And I will say this because I think this is 217 00:11:32,920 --> 00:11:36,319 Speaker 1: part of this process of learning how to handle conflict 218 00:11:36,480 --> 00:11:40,080 Speaker 1: and relate to people, is we have to be able 219 00:11:40,120 --> 00:11:42,480 Speaker 1: to do that. We have to be able to after 220 00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:46,160 Speaker 1: a interaction where we that has not gone well is 221 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:49,640 Speaker 1: ask God to show us, Okay, where. 222 00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:51,600 Speaker 2: Was I wrong? Well did I miss up? 223 00:11:51,720 --> 00:11:54,720 Speaker 1: And we have to be humble enough to be able 224 00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:58,120 Speaker 1: to go back to that person and admit that and 225 00:11:58,160 --> 00:12:00,640 Speaker 1: ask for their forgiveness. That doesn't mean that they're one 226 00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:03,520 Speaker 1: hundred percent right in the thing, but we don't worry 227 00:12:03,520 --> 00:12:07,000 Speaker 1: about that. We worry about where we were all it's good. 228 00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:12,040 Speaker 3: It seems like you're prioritizing people over mptional rights, is 229 00:12:12,080 --> 00:12:15,640 Speaker 3: what I'm hearing. And that's hard for me sometimes because 230 00:12:16,080 --> 00:12:20,240 Speaker 3: this is where our modern culture will push really hard, 231 00:12:20,360 --> 00:12:24,640 Speaker 3: because everything says protect your rights, defend your image when 232 00:12:24,760 --> 00:12:28,680 Speaker 3: that argument, make your point, like we were talking about earlier, 233 00:12:28,720 --> 00:12:32,520 Speaker 3: But what about that other person? What about unity? What 234 00:12:32,640 --> 00:12:48,559 Speaker 3: about peace? How we balance healthy boundaries with biblical humility. 235 00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:51,000 Speaker 1: A couple of verses that keep coming back to me 236 00:12:51,360 --> 00:12:54,680 Speaker 1: and thinking about this idea of the other person Ephesians 237 00:12:54,679 --> 00:12:57,360 Speaker 1: five point twenty one. Paul, wrights submit to one another 238 00:12:58,200 --> 00:13:01,760 Speaker 1: in love in other words, it's not about me, it's 239 00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:05,920 Speaker 1: also about this other person. But in Philippians too, when 240 00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:08,080 Speaker 1: he tells us that our attitude should be the same 241 00:13:08,120 --> 00:13:12,240 Speaker 1: as as Christ Jesus, he says, don't look out just 242 00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:15,840 Speaker 1: for your own interest, but also look out for the 243 00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:19,360 Speaker 1: interests of others. So it's not that Scripture tells us 244 00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:22,000 Speaker 1: we neglect ourselves for other people. 245 00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:23,680 Speaker 2: It's that we can do both. 246 00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:28,199 Speaker 1: We need to recognize others' needs and sometimes we need 247 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:31,880 Speaker 1: to put aside what we think is a right of 248 00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:35,040 Speaker 1: our own just so that we can meet the need 249 00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:37,800 Speaker 1: of someone else. You talked about the culture, and our 250 00:13:37,880 --> 00:13:41,839 Speaker 1: culture is all me first, Yeah, you don't take care 251 00:13:41,880 --> 00:13:45,960 Speaker 1: of yourself. Nobody will that kind of thing. But God 252 00:13:46,040 --> 00:13:48,560 Speaker 1: keeps showing me and I learned more and more about this. 253 00:13:48,679 --> 00:13:51,240 Speaker 1: The elder I get is that God doesn't work on 254 00:13:51,320 --> 00:13:54,840 Speaker 1: the same type of economy that the world operates on, 255 00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:59,120 Speaker 1: and he has designed his church to be a family. 256 00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:03,320 Speaker 1: We are to care for one another, even those black 257 00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:06,800 Speaker 1: sheep cousins who can't keep a job and pay. 258 00:14:06,640 --> 00:14:07,280 Speaker 2: Their own way. 259 00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:10,280 Speaker 3: You know it needs to be nice to them. 260 00:14:10,360 --> 00:14:13,880 Speaker 2: Do we have to be gracious to them? 261 00:14:14,080 --> 00:14:16,640 Speaker 3: Why is our instinct usually self preservation. 262 00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:19,440 Speaker 1: Well, like we said, one thing the culture tells us 263 00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:22,040 Speaker 1: is if you don't take care of yourself, nobody's going to. 264 00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:26,400 Speaker 1: And so even though as Christians intellectually we may know 265 00:14:26,760 --> 00:14:29,040 Speaker 1: God is going to meet our needs, God is going 266 00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:32,440 Speaker 1: to care for us. Jesus and Matthew said, don't you 267 00:14:32,600 --> 00:14:35,680 Speaker 1: see the birds of the air and the flowers of 268 00:14:35,720 --> 00:14:39,240 Speaker 1: the field, and God cares for them, how much more 269 00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:42,120 Speaker 1: than will we care for you? Intellectually we may know that, 270 00:14:42,280 --> 00:14:45,360 Speaker 1: and we may say we believe it, but there's sometimes 271 00:14:45,400 --> 00:14:50,359 Speaker 1: a disconnect between the intellectual knowledge of it and truly 272 00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:54,560 Speaker 1: believing that in our heart being willing to say I 273 00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:56,800 Speaker 1: don't see how you're going to do this, Lord, so 274 00:14:57,000 --> 00:14:59,000 Speaker 1: I'm not trusting you to take care of it. 275 00:14:59,040 --> 00:15:00,160 Speaker 2: I think I need to say. 276 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:04,840 Speaker 1: Up instead rather than allowing God's It really gets down 277 00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:08,360 Speaker 1: to I just don't trust God. I don't trust that 278 00:15:08,440 --> 00:15:10,400 Speaker 1: he's going to have my back. And I don't even 279 00:15:10,400 --> 00:15:12,440 Speaker 1: know if that's what I should say. I just don't 280 00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:15,720 Speaker 1: trust that he is going to bring fairness and justice 281 00:15:15,760 --> 00:15:16,600 Speaker 1: in this situation. 282 00:15:16,840 --> 00:15:20,080 Speaker 3: It's a human thing. Can you tell us about an 283 00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:22,600 Speaker 3: example of the football game. 284 00:15:23,160 --> 00:15:28,760 Speaker 1: And this is an example of going back to just 285 00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:32,680 Speaker 1: because we have the freedom and the right to do something, 286 00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:36,280 Speaker 1: even as a Christian, doesn't make it right to do 287 00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:39,080 Speaker 1: it if it depending on the way it impacts someone else. 288 00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:42,120 Speaker 1: So my husband and I Wayne, I will give you 289 00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:44,920 Speaker 1: his name because it's easier than continuing to save My husband, 290 00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:48,160 Speaker 1: Wayne and I were at a college football game. It's 291 00:15:48,200 --> 00:15:51,960 Speaker 1: where he and I graduated from, and our son was 292 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:55,440 Speaker 1: in school there, and we were sitting with a bunch 293 00:15:55,440 --> 00:15:59,040 Speaker 1: of alumni on the alumni side, not the student side, 294 00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:02,040 Speaker 1: but a couple of rows ahead of us. So there 295 00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:04,240 Speaker 1: was a bunch of older people in the section we 296 00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:07,520 Speaker 1: were sitting, so parents, grandparents, that sort of thing. And 297 00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:10,320 Speaker 1: there was a young couple a couple of rolls ahead 298 00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:14,880 Speaker 1: of us, who apparently were alumni of the school, but 299 00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:15,840 Speaker 1: they were much younger. 300 00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:17,680 Speaker 2: They were in their mid twenties. Probably. 301 00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:21,160 Speaker 1: It was tradition for the students to stand for the 302 00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:24,400 Speaker 1: entire game while the play was happening, and so this 303 00:16:24,520 --> 00:16:27,600 Speaker 1: young couple, whenever play was happening, they were on their feet. 304 00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:31,320 Speaker 1: But there were people right behind them, older people who 305 00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:34,400 Speaker 1: could not stand for that length of time. They couldn't 306 00:16:34,440 --> 00:16:37,280 Speaker 1: remain on their feet. Wayne and I were several rolls 307 00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:39,400 Speaker 1: up and so we could still see. But we were 308 00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:43,080 Speaker 1: watching this play out, and there was a couple behind them, 309 00:16:43,080 --> 00:16:47,000 Speaker 1: an older couple, who tapped them and very kindly asked, 310 00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:49,760 Speaker 1: would you mind sitting down? We can't see and we 311 00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:53,320 Speaker 1: can't stand up for any length of time, and they 312 00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:56,400 Speaker 1: shook their heads, no, we're not going to do it. Well, 313 00:16:57,040 --> 00:17:00,800 Speaker 1: time passed and another person did the same thing and 314 00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:04,040 Speaker 1: ask them, and again they said no, we can stand 315 00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:04,720 Speaker 1: if we want to. 316 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:06,440 Speaker 2: And then a little. 317 00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:09,840 Speaker 1: Time passed and a university employee walked down. Somebody must 318 00:17:09,880 --> 00:17:12,159 Speaker 1: have gone and complained, and he walked down and he 319 00:17:12,280 --> 00:17:15,880 Speaker 1: asked this couple, please sit down. People are complaining they 320 00:17:15,880 --> 00:17:18,560 Speaker 1: can't see, and by this time the young woman was 321 00:17:18,600 --> 00:17:22,000 Speaker 1: in tears, but they still refused. They said no, we 322 00:17:22,119 --> 00:17:24,439 Speaker 1: have every right to stand if we want to, and 323 00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:27,080 Speaker 1: we're not sitting down. All the people around them were 324 00:17:27,080 --> 00:17:30,439 Speaker 1: so angry, and it made me think did they have 325 00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:33,480 Speaker 1: the right. Yeah, they had the right to stand, but 326 00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:35,040 Speaker 1: did it make it right for. 327 00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:35,639 Speaker 2: Them to do it? 328 00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:36,600 Speaker 3: Wow? 329 00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:40,160 Speaker 1: And it really did not. Paul talks in one Corinthians 330 00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:45,439 Speaker 1: eight thirteen. Culturally it's wrapped up in meat sacrifice to idols. 331 00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:49,040 Speaker 1: Do Christians have the freedom to eat meat, sacrifice the idol. Yes, 332 00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:51,560 Speaker 1: you have the freedom, you have the right to do that, 333 00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:57,440 Speaker 1: but your weaker brother is harmed by you exercising your freedom, 334 00:17:57,640 --> 00:18:00,880 Speaker 1: then you shouldn't do it. So this the modern day 335 00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:03,840 Speaker 1: example of that we have the right to do a 336 00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:06,720 Speaker 1: lot of things that may be wrong in the exercising 337 00:18:06,760 --> 00:18:08,240 Speaker 1: of it if it hurts somebody else. 338 00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:13,320 Speaker 3: So being right and being righteous aren't always the same thing. Correct, 339 00:18:13,840 --> 00:18:16,720 Speaker 3: all right, So you got to depend on God to 340 00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:18,639 Speaker 3: make things right? Is that where you're going with this? 341 00:18:19,720 --> 00:18:19,920 Speaker 2: Yes? 342 00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:23,280 Speaker 1: Well, yeah, First of all, in a conflict, we need 343 00:18:23,320 --> 00:18:27,360 Speaker 1: to recognize that technically we may be right about something, 344 00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:31,800 Speaker 1: but ensuring that the other person knows that and responds 345 00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:35,159 Speaker 1: the way we want them to about it is not 346 00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:37,840 Speaker 1: necessarily the right thing to do. 347 00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:38,840 Speaker 3: Convicting. 348 00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:43,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, And so are we willing in conflict? Are we 349 00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:48,919 Speaker 1: willing to set aside being right or having the ability 350 00:18:49,119 --> 00:18:52,439 Speaker 1: to exercise a freedom if it's going to hurt the 351 00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:53,040 Speaker 1: other person? 352 00:18:53,080 --> 00:18:53,919 Speaker 2: And the answer is no. 353 00:18:54,280 --> 00:18:57,240 Speaker 3: So why is it so difficult to trust God with 354 00:18:57,440 --> 00:18:58,600 Speaker 3: unresolved conflict? 355 00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:01,800 Speaker 2: Because for me, I can't wait. I want it to 356 00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:02,640 Speaker 2: be fixed. 357 00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:05,080 Speaker 3: Yes now, yes, And. 358 00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:08,440 Speaker 1: Rather than waiting and seeing how God's going to work, 359 00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:11,400 Speaker 1: which he could resolve it far better than I could 360 00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:13,560 Speaker 1: resolve it, and we just want it now. 361 00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:15,840 Speaker 2: We want things now. 362 00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:19,000 Speaker 1: Which makes me think, you know, God, God promised Paul 363 00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:21,200 Speaker 1: that he was going to get to take the Gospel 364 00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:22,320 Speaker 1: to Row, and. 365 00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:24,840 Speaker 2: It took about two years after he was. 366 00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:28,880 Speaker 1: A restied in Jerusalem people before it finally did get 367 00:19:28,920 --> 00:19:31,280 Speaker 1: to Row, and then he was a prisoner. 368 00:19:31,359 --> 00:19:34,000 Speaker 2: So God's promise fulfilled. 369 00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:36,720 Speaker 1: Was delayed in Paul's point of view, and not quite 370 00:19:36,760 --> 00:19:38,560 Speaker 1: fulfilled in the way Paul had expected. 371 00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:42,280 Speaker 3: Well, you know, you talked about this conflict thing in boundaries. 372 00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:46,320 Speaker 3: How do you know when we've done all that we 373 00:19:46,359 --> 00:19:46,760 Speaker 3: can do? 374 00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:50,520 Speaker 1: That is really a really good question. I mean, prayer 375 00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:53,600 Speaker 1: is the first thing. Lord, What else can I do? 376 00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:57,280 Speaker 1: And asking God to search our heart like we talked 377 00:19:57,320 --> 00:20:00,399 Speaker 1: about earlier and say, is there something that I'm need 378 00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:04,040 Speaker 1: to confess to you and to that person because part 379 00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:08,000 Speaker 1: of this ongoing unresolved conflict may be some way that 380 00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:11,560 Speaker 1: I have hurt or wronged them that I wasn't even 381 00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:13,000 Speaker 1: aware of and they may. 382 00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:17,600 Speaker 2: Be waiting on that. Yeah, sometimes we just have to 383 00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:20,000 Speaker 2: wait on God to show us the next step, and 384 00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:22,080 Speaker 2: it may be a while. 385 00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:24,959 Speaker 3: So how do we release the outcome emotionally? What does 386 00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:25,520 Speaker 3: that look like? 387 00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:28,960 Speaker 1: There have been many times where I have gone into 388 00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:31,040 Speaker 1: a room and closed the door to talk to God, 389 00:20:31,119 --> 00:20:33,640 Speaker 1: and I have told him before I am just so 390 00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:34,960 Speaker 1: mad about this. 391 00:20:35,440 --> 00:20:38,520 Speaker 2: I probably have needed to have done it more often 392 00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:39,919 Speaker 2: than I have done it. 393 00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:41,639 Speaker 1: And I'll tell him I'm just so mad. I don't 394 00:20:41,920 --> 00:20:44,919 Speaker 1: know what to do with this anger, and ask him 395 00:20:45,359 --> 00:20:48,120 Speaker 1: first of all, why am I so angry? Is it 396 00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:50,919 Speaker 1: righteous anger? Because there is righteous anger? 397 00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:53,040 Speaker 2: We saw that in Jesus. 398 00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:56,840 Speaker 1: Is it a righteous anger that I need to ask 399 00:20:56,880 --> 00:20:59,480 Speaker 1: You to show me what to do with and about? 400 00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:01,800 Speaker 2: Or is it simple. 401 00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:03,840 Speaker 1: Anger that I need to give to you and allow 402 00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:07,480 Speaker 1: to dissipate. It may be grief, it may be sadness. 403 00:21:07,520 --> 00:21:10,080 Speaker 1: But the best place to take our emotions as to God. 404 00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:13,240 Speaker 3: Amen to that. I happen to be doing a message 405 00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:16,439 Speaker 3: at my church on Philomon. And the reason I'm bringing 406 00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:19,800 Speaker 3: this up is because there are two people in it. 407 00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:22,760 Speaker 3: They're a hall in john Mark that are just tucked 408 00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:25,439 Speaker 3: away at the end and the greeting, and they're a 409 00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:30,680 Speaker 3: helpful example of this. Because family members church family, regular 410 00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:34,600 Speaker 3: family conflict happens it's going to happen. You tell us 411 00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:36,960 Speaker 3: that we need to be prepared for that, we need 412 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:39,520 Speaker 3: to give it to God. But there was separation that 413 00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:43,600 Speaker 3: happened between the two of them, and to spoint healing 414 00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:44,880 Speaker 3: took time. 415 00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:49,280 Speaker 1: In fact, I've got notes on the dates because I 416 00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:53,639 Speaker 1: was curious about how long it was between when that 417 00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:57,400 Speaker 1: initial conflict happened between Paul and John Mark and when 418 00:21:57,520 --> 00:22:02,320 Speaker 1: we see restoration. I'd love to know the whole story 419 00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:05,560 Speaker 1: about them, but scripture doesn't tell us. So it's it's 420 00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:09,960 Speaker 1: in Acts thirteen and fifteen where we see that initial conflict. 421 00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:13,760 Speaker 1: So Paul's first missionary journey was with Barnabas and with 422 00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:18,199 Speaker 1: Barnabas's relative, a nephew or cousin, John Mark, and so 423 00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:22,200 Speaker 1: early on in that journey, X thirteen tells us that 424 00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:24,879 Speaker 1: John Mark left him and went home, and it doesn't 425 00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:28,800 Speaker 1: tell us why. But then later in Acts fifteen, when 426 00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:31,480 Speaker 1: Paul and Barnabas are preparing to go on the second 427 00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:35,720 Speaker 1: missionary journey, Barnabas says, hey, let's bring John Mark along, 428 00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:38,440 Speaker 1: and Paul says, uh no, he. 429 00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:39,920 Speaker 2: Left us the last time. 430 00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:43,560 Speaker 1: And what ends up happening is we see this break 431 00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:46,240 Speaker 1: of this missionary team too, and so we wondered, what 432 00:22:46,359 --> 00:22:48,439 Speaker 1: in the world happened. Well, it was more than a 433 00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:53,840 Speaker 1: decade later when Paul wrote Colossians. In Colossians four, he 434 00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:58,200 Speaker 1: mentions Mark. We don't get any details, just that obviously 435 00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:01,439 Speaker 1: Mark is now sort of run in Paul's circles and 436 00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:04,080 Speaker 1: he's part of that ministry. And you think, what in 437 00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:06,679 Speaker 1: the world happened? You see it in Filemon too. You 438 00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:10,880 Speaker 1: mentioned that it seems like Mark was with Paul when 439 00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:15,399 Speaker 1: he wrote this letter, and then in Second Timothy. In 440 00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:19,840 Speaker 1: Paul's last letter that we have to Timothy, he mentions 441 00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:24,320 Speaker 1: Mark and describes him as being useful to his ministry. 442 00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:25,280 Speaker 2: And so it's a. 443 00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:29,119 Speaker 1: Little more than a decade from that initial conflict to 444 00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:35,280 Speaker 1: where we see Paul and Mark in ministry relationship, doing 445 00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:36,240 Speaker 1: ministry together. 446 00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:40,879 Speaker 2: And so sometimes healing takes time. Yeah, I would like 447 00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:43,280 Speaker 2: to know how that was resolved. 448 00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:46,520 Speaker 1: Hopefully when we get to heaven and we'll find that out. 449 00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:49,520 Speaker 3: We can put our questions to him. Thank you for that. 450 00:23:50,160 --> 00:24:02,080 Speaker 3: Let's take a quick break for one of our sponsors. 451 00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:06,080 Speaker 3: Welcome back to the Faith Over for your podcast today, 452 00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:09,960 Speaker 3: we're talking to Kathy Howard about learning to respond instead 453 00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:14,760 Speaker 3: of reacting difficult relationships. This conversation feels like discipleship for 454 00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:19,240 Speaker 3: everyday life, because all of us are navigating people somewhere 455 00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:23,520 Speaker 3: right now, one way or another, and there is something 456 00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:25,840 Speaker 3: in scriptures telling us that we need to be an 457 00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:32,159 Speaker 3: intercessor for peace among others. Yes, this is such a 458 00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:38,080 Speaker 3: mature spiritual concept because peace making is different than peacekeeping, 459 00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:42,200 Speaker 3: and you are so good at explaining the difference between 460 00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:44,920 Speaker 3: less do that for us. 461 00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:49,600 Speaker 1: Well, when you say peace keeping, I think, just don't 462 00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:53,720 Speaker 1: rock the boat, just you know, try to keep things 463 00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:56,080 Speaker 1: calm and don't say or do anything that's going to 464 00:24:56,200 --> 00:25:02,680 Speaker 1: upset somebody else. And sometimes that kind of attitude keeps 465 00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:05,520 Speaker 1: us from doing the things God would have us do. 466 00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:07,560 Speaker 2: Sometimes we need. 467 00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:11,080 Speaker 1: To rock the boat a little bit. I wrote a 468 00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:15,280 Speaker 1: Bible study on grace, and I learned that grace is 469 00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:20,600 Speaker 1: not the same thing as nice, so because grace helps 470 00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:25,560 Speaker 1: people be everything God wants them to be, and so 471 00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:30,679 Speaker 1: sometimes grace requires hard words, words that are not easy 472 00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:36,640 Speaker 1: to say, words that may initially cause conflict. So peace making, 473 00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:41,920 Speaker 1: in addition to resolving conflicts, it's also heading off things 474 00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:44,959 Speaker 1: in the future that would cause even more problems. If 475 00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:47,399 Speaker 1: they're not taking care of now. I love the book 476 00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:50,960 Speaker 1: of by Layment. It's what twenty four twenty six verses 477 00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:54,359 Speaker 1: or something. It's very short, no chapter, just verses. But 478 00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:59,720 Speaker 1: Paul wrote to a Christian who whose slave, one of 479 00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:02,720 Speaker 1: his slaves ran away aus And I may not be 480 00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:06,080 Speaker 1: pronouncing that correctly, but don't you just love God's providence 481 00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:08,920 Speaker 1: and that somehow after he ran. 482 00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:13,679 Speaker 2: Away, Anissimus connected with Paul to Christ. 483 00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:20,200 Speaker 1: And so Paul writes to Fileman to try to resolve 484 00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:25,240 Speaker 1: this conflict between by Lemen and his runaway slave. And 485 00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:29,600 Speaker 1: he's encouraging by Lehman to take him back as a 486 00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:33,960 Speaker 1: brother in Christ, not a slave, I know, right, So 487 00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:38,560 Speaker 1: Paul is going out of his way to resolve conflict 488 00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:41,240 Speaker 1: between these two. And we might want to think, why 489 00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:43,520 Speaker 1: why did Paul even care? Why? 490 00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:46,000 Speaker 2: Why bother? Was it really his business? 491 00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:48,719 Speaker 1: Which I think we say that as Christians when we 492 00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:51,679 Speaker 1: see conflict around us that we're not directly involved in. 493 00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:55,080 Speaker 1: Why should I bother with that? Why should I care? 494 00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:58,080 Speaker 1: Or it's not my business? I need to say out 495 00:26:58,119 --> 00:27:01,399 Speaker 1: of it? If God leads, it may very well be 496 00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:04,520 Speaker 1: our business, because God is the one who makes it 497 00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:11,760 Speaker 1: our business, you know, God does not like conflict in 498 00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:15,520 Speaker 1: his family, and so if they can't work it out themselves, 499 00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:19,920 Speaker 1: sometimes he calls on believers close to them to help them. 500 00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:24,000 Speaker 1: In Paul's Letter to the Believers in Philippi, in chapter four, 501 00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:28,840 Speaker 1: he talks about two women named Yodia and Sentike, and again, 502 00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:31,959 Speaker 1: there's so much about some things that I'd like to 503 00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:35,800 Speaker 1: know more of. He tells somebody in the Philippian church 504 00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:38,920 Speaker 1: to help these women. First of all, he calls on 505 00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:43,040 Speaker 1: them to settle their conflict, and then he says, and you, 506 00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:48,560 Speaker 1: loyal yoke fellow, help them, Like, don't just stand back 507 00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:53,760 Speaker 1: and watch this conflict continue, but get in there and 508 00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:57,399 Speaker 1: help them resolve this conflict. 509 00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:00,280 Speaker 2: You know, I wish I knew what it was. Maybe 510 00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:02,760 Speaker 2: it was a disagreement over the color of the carpet 511 00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:04,240 Speaker 2: and the sanctuary or something. 512 00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:09,720 Speaker 3: Well, how can somebody help restore relationships without becoming controlling 513 00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:11,160 Speaker 3: or triangulating? 514 00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:16,280 Speaker 1: You mean, helping a conflict outside ourselves? So, you know, 515 00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:18,720 Speaker 1: I thought about that because. 516 00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:20,440 Speaker 2: It's not easy. I mean, how are we going to 517 00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:20,760 Speaker 2: do that? 518 00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:23,320 Speaker 1: I think first of all, we need to not take sides, 519 00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:28,280 Speaker 1: particularly until we have heard both sides. And the ultimate 520 00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:32,080 Speaker 1: way I believe would be to get them both in 521 00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:35,480 Speaker 1: the same room with one another and try and get 522 00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:37,320 Speaker 1: them to talk it out. I think there would be 523 00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:40,800 Speaker 1: a start, and it may depend on the exact situation 524 00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:44,760 Speaker 1: in the nature of the conflict, whether you start with 525 00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:47,840 Speaker 1: that or start with talking to each one of them. 526 00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:52,000 Speaker 1: But the mediator needs to hear both sides completely and 527 00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:56,680 Speaker 1: thoroughly and try to set aside any preconceptions of what 528 00:28:56,720 --> 00:29:00,080 Speaker 1: we think the problem is and how to solve it. 529 00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:05,240 Speaker 3: We can be somebody who calms rooms instead of escalating things. 530 00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:09,000 Speaker 3: Maybe if both felt heard, then that could maybe stop 531 00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:11,800 Speaker 3: some of the division through gossip that it got to 532 00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:12,480 Speaker 3: that point. 533 00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:15,520 Speaker 1: And I think sometimes if you get two people who 534 00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:17,840 Speaker 1: are upset with each other in a room by themselves, 535 00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:21,520 Speaker 1: they may not listen to the other person. But if 536 00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:25,120 Speaker 1: you have that mediator where you get both of them 537 00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:28,320 Speaker 1: to really hear out the other one, it may be 538 00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:33,480 Speaker 1: amazing what they realized that they did not know before. 539 00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:38,240 Speaker 3: That's good mediation. So we're not supposed to compromise God's 540 00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:42,720 Speaker 3: truth to avoid conflict, then, because you're saying that conflict 541 00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:45,320 Speaker 3: may be necessary sometimes, I think so. 542 00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:48,320 Speaker 1: It makes me think of a situation that Paul writes 543 00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:51,960 Speaker 1: about in Galatians where so Paul spent lots of time 544 00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:55,080 Speaker 1: at the church in Antioch that was really his home church, 545 00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:57,560 Speaker 1: that was his base when he went out on mission trips. 546 00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:00,280 Speaker 1: And so there was a period of time where when 547 00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:03,440 Speaker 1: Peter was there with the church, and Paul writes in 548 00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:08,160 Speaker 1: Galatians that Peter had been eating with the gentiles in 549 00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:11,120 Speaker 1: the church and all of that, and then some Jewish 550 00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:14,400 Speaker 1: Christians from Jerusalem show up for a visit, and all 551 00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:20,360 Speaker 1: of a sudden, Peter separates himself from the gentiles in mills, 552 00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:24,920 Speaker 1: which is something that the Jews did before christ They 553 00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:27,320 Speaker 1: did not think they could eat with gentiles, weren't supposed 554 00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:32,120 Speaker 1: to eat with gentiles. And so Paul called Peter out 555 00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:36,080 Speaker 1: in public, said in front of them all, and here 556 00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:38,920 Speaker 1: was the thing. I looked at this again earlier, and 557 00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:43,560 Speaker 1: it said, because what Peter was doing was against the Gospel. 558 00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:46,840 Speaker 1: So Paul felt it was necessary to speak to Peter 559 00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:49,280 Speaker 1: in front of all these people, to confront Peter in 560 00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:54,360 Speaker 1: front of all these people, because his actions directly contradicted 561 00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:58,680 Speaker 1: the gospel that it is for all people, and that 562 00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:02,440 Speaker 1: gentiles did not have to become Jews to be saved. 563 00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:06,960 Speaker 1: Because it's solely a work of God's grace. And so 564 00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:11,000 Speaker 1: what Peter had done was really say, I don't believe 565 00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:13,760 Speaker 1: this about the gospel. I don't believe that we are 566 00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:16,800 Speaker 1: all equal in Christ. I don't believe that because of 567 00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:20,000 Speaker 1: the way he was acting, and so Paul had to 568 00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:22,960 Speaker 1: confront it in front of everybody to make sure that 569 00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:25,480 Speaker 1: the truth was not compromised. 570 00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:32,680 Speaker 3: What made Paul's confrontation of Peter intentional instead of reactive. 571 00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:34,560 Speaker 1: Well, we don't get all the details, right, so we 572 00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:37,680 Speaker 1: don't know if Paul spoke in anger or if Paul 573 00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:40,280 Speaker 1: spoke you know, we don't we can't hear the tone 574 00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:43,680 Speaker 1: or anything like that. But the way he wrote it 575 00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:46,200 Speaker 1: where he said, I've talked to him in front of 576 00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:50,600 Speaker 1: them all because his actions and I could look it 577 00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:53,360 Speaker 1: up and read it exactly like it says. But because 578 00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:58,760 Speaker 1: Peter's actions were against the gospel, Paul confronted him in 579 00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:01,720 Speaker 1: front of all. So it makes it sound like Paul 580 00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:05,400 Speaker 1: thought this through in that this is a way I 581 00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:09,920 Speaker 1: need to handle this because of what Peter's actions have done. 582 00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:14,600 Speaker 1: So it sounds like there was thought behind his actions, 583 00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:17,800 Speaker 1: which means responding rather than reacting. 584 00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:21,600 Speaker 3: That's good because he was speaking truth and he wasn't 585 00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:25,600 Speaker 3: weaponizing it because it's the way that he tells us. 586 00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:28,520 Speaker 3: You know, he was simply speaking the truth to bring 587 00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:30,920 Speaker 3: him to a point to realize it. And we do 588 00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:33,680 Speaker 3: see that Peter realized it in the Bible. 589 00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:38,560 Speaker 1: And you have a room full of gentile believer who 590 00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:40,880 Speaker 1: were probably thinking, wait a minute, we were told this, 591 00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:42,360 Speaker 1: but now look what's happening. 592 00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:46,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, so it's not pretending that everything's fine according to 593 00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:51,880 Speaker 3: what Paul did. And biblical pieces rooted in truth, and 594 00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:55,880 Speaker 3: that's what Paul used without weaponizing it. So I guess 595 00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:59,440 Speaker 3: what I'm getting to is the peacekeeping thing. You can 596 00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:05,960 Speaker 3: never not confront anything. Sometimes confrontation is necessary, right. 597 00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:10,160 Speaker 1: Right, particularly if other people are being harmed, which is 598 00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:15,080 Speaker 1: what was happening there with Peter in the church in Antioch. 599 00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:18,800 Speaker 2: Is the gentile Christians were being harmed by Peter's actions. 600 00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:23,080 Speaker 1: So I've been teaching ladies Bible study for eons, so 601 00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:28,000 Speaker 1: years ago. I don't even remember what we were studying 602 00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:31,640 Speaker 1: in Bible study, but it came up about children and 603 00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:35,880 Speaker 1: rebellious teenagers and one very young mom, I mean she 604 00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:38,240 Speaker 1: had two or three boys that were like five and 605 00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:41,520 Speaker 1: under very new mom makes a comment, well, if you 606 00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:44,600 Speaker 1: raise them up right, that's not going to happen. So, 607 00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:47,920 Speaker 1: in other words, she has just said to these moms 608 00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:51,560 Speaker 1: of teenagers young twenties who are asking us to pray 609 00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:55,560 Speaker 1: for their prodigal children, that you messed up and did 610 00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:56,120 Speaker 1: something wrong. 611 00:33:56,400 --> 00:34:01,400 Speaker 2: Oh. So that was one of those moments where I 612 00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:02,800 Speaker 2: sent up an arrow prayer. 613 00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:05,040 Speaker 1: Lord, what am I supposed to do right here in 614 00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:08,799 Speaker 1: this moment because we in Bible study and walk out 615 00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:09,640 Speaker 1: the moment's gone? 616 00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:10,839 Speaker 2: Right? Yeah? 617 00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:14,279 Speaker 1: And I could There were two women in there who 618 00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:18,480 Speaker 1: I knew had teenagers, young adults who were not following 619 00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:22,680 Speaker 1: after God and whose mothers were heartbroken over it, who 620 00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:24,960 Speaker 1: were godly women, And as soon as she said that, 621 00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:26,720 Speaker 1: I saw their faces Wow. 622 00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:30,000 Speaker 2: And so I addressed. 623 00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:33,040 Speaker 1: It as graciously as I felt like I could in 624 00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:36,000 Speaker 1: the moment. But I addressed it there. She said it 625 00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:38,120 Speaker 1: in front of the whole Bible study class, and I 626 00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:42,160 Speaker 1: felt like if I left it, those two other moms 627 00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:43,960 Speaker 1: would be harmed, And so. 628 00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:47,240 Speaker 2: With God's help, I spoke to it right there. 629 00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:50,960 Speaker 3: Well, you had to. That's a good point to illustrate 630 00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:53,960 Speaker 3: that when harming others that could have done so well, 631 00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:57,239 Speaker 3: all right, what's one practical thing listeners can do this 632 00:34:57,280 --> 00:34:59,719 Speaker 3: week before responding emotion? 633 00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:03,879 Speaker 1: Okay, so, if it's an email or a text, leave 634 00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:07,520 Speaker 1: it for twenty four hours and talk to God and 635 00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:11,800 Speaker 1: you're trusted godly counselor about it. If it is face 636 00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:14,320 Speaker 1: to face and you don't have the option of saying, can. 637 00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:16,280 Speaker 2: I get back to you on that tomorrow. 638 00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:25,359 Speaker 1: I love Namiah's example of prayer. In Niamiah, I call 639 00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:28,160 Speaker 1: them Arara prayers. Other people have called them ara prayers. 640 00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:31,280 Speaker 1: There's a couple of times where Niamiah just said, essentially, 641 00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:34,640 Speaker 1: in the moment, I just prayed, you know, I just prayed. 642 00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:39,160 Speaker 1: And so I firmly believe that when we face a 643 00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:42,839 Speaker 1: moment like that where we have to respond immediately, our 644 00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:47,960 Speaker 1: our knee jerk reaction needs to always be prayer. And 645 00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:50,839 Speaker 1: I do this all the time. Lord, I don't know 646 00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:54,640 Speaker 1: what to say, I don't know how to respond, and 647 00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:58,239 Speaker 1: I need your direction right now, and I'm trusted that 648 00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:00,920 Speaker 1: what you give me is going to be your will. 649 00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:04,279 Speaker 1: So yeah, we got to get God's input. I mean, 650 00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:09,400 Speaker 1: that's the first thing. Whether it's email, text or face 651 00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:11,920 Speaker 1: to face, there's time to sink God's input. 652 00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:16,040 Speaker 3: Thank you for that. So much relational damage happens not 653 00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:20,000 Speaker 3: because people are evil, but because they're wounded. Maybe they're 654 00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:24,120 Speaker 3: exhausted or afraid, or insecure or reactive. And that's why 655 00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:27,200 Speaker 3: walking in the spirit matters so deeply. As you've pointed 656 00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:29,839 Speaker 3: out to us, Kathy, God doesn't want us just to 657 00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:33,799 Speaker 3: survive relationships. He wants us to transform the way that 658 00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:36,759 Speaker 3: we love people. Thank you so much for being with 659 00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:40,160 Speaker 3: us today, and this conversation was really deeply practical and 660 00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:43,399 Speaker 3: deeply biblical, which I really appreciate and I know it's 661 00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:47,359 Speaker 3: going to help so many listeners navigate difficult relationships with 662 00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:48,800 Speaker 3: more wisdom and peace. 663 00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:49,600 Speaker 2: And to our. 664 00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:53,360 Speaker 3: Listeners, if today's episode encouraged you, share it with somebody 665 00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:58,040 Speaker 3: who may need it. Sometimes one conversation can completely change 666 00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:01,239 Speaker 3: the tone of a relationship. Be sure to tune in 667 00:37:01,640 --> 00:37:05,160 Speaker 3: next week for episode four with guests doctor Michelle Bangston 668 00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:09,360 Speaker 3: on finding peace when relationships don't change. And if you 669 00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:12,160 Speaker 3: haven't already done so, I encourage you to subscribe to 670 00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:15,040 Speaker 3: this podcast so you won't miss a single episode and 671 00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:19,040 Speaker 3: rate it because it encourages Jennifer Slattery evening, share it 672 00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:22,279 Speaker 3: with your friends and until next time. May you live 673 00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:24,560 Speaker 3: as one who has been set free.