1 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:11,320 Speaker 1: Life Audio. Well, welcome to today's lecture and interactive session. 2 00:00:11,400 --> 00:00:14,520 Speaker 1: Here with a dear friend of mine and a real 3 00:00:15,400 --> 00:00:18,760 Speaker 1: pioneer in the field of Jewish Christian relations, which is 4 00:00:18,840 --> 00:00:22,800 Speaker 1: our subject matter, Doctor Marvin Wilson has just been a 5 00:00:22,840 --> 00:00:27,160 Speaker 1: beloved biblical scholar, teacher and a much sought after speaker, 6 00:00:27,320 --> 00:00:32,640 Speaker 1: and I just consider him one of the main pioneers 7 00:00:32,760 --> 00:00:37,159 Speaker 1: in the field of evangelical Jewish relations. 8 00:00:38,240 --> 00:00:40,360 Speaker 2: Let's take a break and hear a message from one 9 00:00:40,360 --> 00:00:48,600 Speaker 2: of our sponsors. Welcome to the Israel Answer Series, Connecting 10 00:00:48,720 --> 00:00:52,960 Speaker 2: Israel the Bible, and you join Susan Michael as she 11 00:00:53,080 --> 00:00:57,000 Speaker 2: explores timely issues and current events from a scriptural perspective 12 00:00:57,160 --> 00:01:00,000 Speaker 2: to equip the Christian world with a balance and biblical response. 13 00:01:00,840 --> 00:01:04,040 Speaker 2: Be shore to subscribe for future episodes which will ignite 14 00:01:04,040 --> 00:01:06,280 Speaker 2: your faith and bring the Bible to life in your 15 00:01:06,319 --> 00:01:11,559 Speaker 2: everyday world. Now, let's join Susan with your Israel answers. 16 00:01:12,959 --> 00:01:17,560 Speaker 1: Doctor Wilson has a PhD from Brandeis University and he 17 00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:21,280 Speaker 1: taught at Gorton College for over fifty years, where he 18 00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:26,400 Speaker 1: was the Harold J. O'kanga Professor of Biblical and Theological Studies. 19 00:01:26,959 --> 00:01:30,840 Speaker 1: He was a translator for the New International Version of 20 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:35,840 Speaker 1: the Bible. And I remember first learning of doctor Wilson 21 00:01:35,880 --> 00:01:39,800 Speaker 1: many years ago through his series of three books that 22 00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:46,000 Speaker 1: he wrote on evangelical Jewish relations and co authored with 23 00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:51,320 Speaker 1: rabbis and Jewish scholars. And then of course his book 24 00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:55,360 Speaker 1: that we are using and many others do as a textbook, 25 00:01:55,600 --> 00:01:59,080 Speaker 1: but we're using in our course called Introduction to Israel, 26 00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:03,760 Speaker 1: and that book is entitled Our Father Abraham Jewish Roots 27 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:07,040 Speaker 1: of the Christian Faith, and that book has been used 28 00:02:07,080 --> 00:02:10,600 Speaker 1: in many schools and has really helped to shape Jewish 29 00:02:10,680 --> 00:02:15,160 Speaker 1: Christian relations for decades now. So doctor Wilson is a 30 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:17,760 Speaker 1: very very warm welcome, and thank you so much for 31 00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:20,639 Speaker 1: giving of your time today. I think it's a real 32 00:02:20,720 --> 00:02:24,120 Speaker 1: privilege for those listening and for the students of the 33 00:02:24,120 --> 00:02:27,960 Speaker 1: course to be able to meet you in person here 34 00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:31,720 Speaker 1: by video and to learn firsthand from you. So thank 35 00:02:31,760 --> 00:02:32,480 Speaker 1: you so much. 36 00:02:34,080 --> 00:02:37,720 Speaker 3: Well, thank you, Susan. It certainly is a delight to 37 00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:42,760 Speaker 3: be with you today and to give this lecture on 38 00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:49,120 Speaker 3: Christian Jewish relations today is so much in this area. 39 00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:52,840 Speaker 3: It's such a rich topic. So where would you like 40 00:02:52,960 --> 00:02:53,960 Speaker 3: to begin? 41 00:02:54,680 --> 00:02:57,720 Speaker 1: Yes, well, it is it goes back two thousand years, 42 00:02:57,760 --> 00:03:00,000 Speaker 1: but we're not going to try to cover that today. 43 00:03:01,040 --> 00:03:04,959 Speaker 1: We're really looking at more of the modern relationship and 44 00:03:05,320 --> 00:03:09,400 Speaker 1: from the Holocaust forward. I think the Holocaust was a 45 00:03:09,680 --> 00:03:16,600 Speaker 1: real momentous occasion that really woke up Jewish Christian relations. 46 00:03:16,680 --> 00:03:20,120 Speaker 1: So what are some of the developments that you've seen 47 00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:25,000 Speaker 1: specifically tied to the Holocaust and its impact on different 48 00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:26,200 Speaker 1: segments at the church. 49 00:03:28,120 --> 00:03:32,320 Speaker 3: Well, you're exactly right. The Holocaust has had a tremendous 50 00:03:32,440 --> 00:03:38,160 Speaker 3: impact on Christian Jewish relations. And to try to hit 51 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:42,960 Speaker 3: some of the high points on what has gone on, First, 52 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:50,120 Speaker 3: the Holocaust shook the very credibility of Christianity. It called 53 00:03:50,720 --> 00:04:01,960 Speaker 3: into accountability whether Christianity was being displayed in this trendous 54 00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:06,360 Speaker 3: period of time of nineteen thirty three to forty five, 55 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:11,920 Speaker 3: which God was typically referred to as the Holocaust. Years now, 56 00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:16,159 Speaker 3: while most Jews sort of look at the New Testament 57 00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:19,920 Speaker 3: and feel al most have not read it. The New 58 00:04:19,960 --> 00:04:26,640 Speaker 3: Testament is anti Semitic because actually Christians were acting not 59 00:04:26,839 --> 00:04:31,600 Speaker 3: as Christians. So the assumption was maybe you can't get 60 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:36,400 Speaker 3: from the New Testament directly to Auschwitz. But nevertheless, the 61 00:04:36,480 --> 00:04:41,240 Speaker 3: long history of contempt and anti Judaism which has been 62 00:04:41,720 --> 00:04:45,719 Speaker 3: there for many, many years, provided the seed in that 63 00:04:45,960 --> 00:04:52,440 Speaker 3: soil which in Europe eventually led to the Holocaust. The Holocaust, 64 00:04:52,480 --> 00:04:57,400 Speaker 3: in short, did not happen in a vacuum. The Jewish 65 00:04:57,600 --> 00:05:03,279 Speaker 3: perception has been well, if Christians allowed those horrible things 66 00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:09,080 Speaker 3: of hatred and violence to happen in so called Christian Europe, 67 00:05:09,360 --> 00:05:15,640 Speaker 3: then Christianity must be anti Semitic. If so facto, maybe 68 00:05:15,640 --> 00:05:20,039 Speaker 3: it's just built right into Christianity. Whereas when Rabbi put 69 00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:24,800 Speaker 3: it very painfully to me a number of years ago, 70 00:05:25,320 --> 00:05:32,360 Speaker 3: he said, Wilson, if loving Jesus caused those European Christians 71 00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:36,560 Speaker 3: to do all those horrible things to us Jews, then 72 00:05:36,640 --> 00:05:41,040 Speaker 3: thank you very much, we Jews can do without your Jesus. 73 00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:45,479 Speaker 3: That was a horrible indictment to hear. But what the 74 00:05:45,600 --> 00:05:50,320 Speaker 3: Rabbi was reflecting on was really the silence of the Church, 75 00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:54,640 Speaker 3: which is the second important lesson we learned from the Holocaust. 76 00:05:55,360 --> 00:06:03,960 Speaker 3: This alarming indifference to evil the inaction of Christians, or 77 00:06:04,080 --> 00:06:07,200 Speaker 3: is one survivor likes to put it to me, the 78 00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:11,279 Speaker 3: bystanders are the people I really have the problem with 79 00:06:11,400 --> 00:06:15,040 Speaker 3: when it comes to the Holocaust, because most Christians very 80 00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:20,120 Speaker 3: frankly did not love their neighbors as themselves and intervene 81 00:06:20,360 --> 00:06:24,280 Speaker 3: in ways they could intervene. And while the issues of 82 00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:30,400 Speaker 3: the Holocaust are complex, the apathy and indifference, as Hejhuwan said, 83 00:06:30,880 --> 00:06:35,479 Speaker 3: indifference to evil is more insidious than evil itself. That 84 00:06:35,720 --> 00:06:39,720 Speaker 3: is a difficult thing that came out of the Holocaust. Third, 85 00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:44,360 Speaker 3: I think the Holocaust raised the question for Jews, can 86 00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:48,479 Speaker 3: we Jews really trust Christians? And this is one of 87 00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:52,200 Speaker 3: the carryovers today when we deal with Christian Jewish relations 88 00:06:52,640 --> 00:06:56,320 Speaker 3: is there's still that nagging doubt in the deep psyche 89 00:06:56,400 --> 00:07:00,720 Speaker 3: of the Jewish community. Can you really trust Christians? Because 90 00:07:00,760 --> 00:07:05,920 Speaker 3: few Christians today. The Jewish community refers to those who 91 00:07:05,920 --> 00:07:10,160 Speaker 3: did reach out and try to help Jews righteous gentiles, 92 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:19,080 Speaker 3: but they were very few. Fourth, the Holocaust showed that 93 00:07:19,120 --> 00:07:26,880 Speaker 3: the Church's long teaching of triumphalism, supersessionism, or replacement theology 94 00:07:27,640 --> 00:07:32,239 Speaker 3: had taken its toll. When Jews are told by Christian 95 00:07:32,640 --> 00:07:37,760 Speaker 3: you have no more sacred vocation. God has done with you. 96 00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:42,080 Speaker 3: The church is the second stage of the salvation rocket. 97 00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:45,840 Speaker 3: You have fizzled out, you have no more integrity with God, 98 00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:49,480 Speaker 3: and we have replaced you in the plan of God. 99 00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:58,160 Speaker 3: Christian triumphalism therefore made Jews fear if Christians have replaced 100 00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:02,400 Speaker 3: us and we have no more voice. And indeed, as 101 00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:08,400 Speaker 3: they force us into the ghettos of Europe, visit vien It, 102 00:08:08,520 --> 00:08:16,000 Speaker 3: someday visit other places in Italy. Christians had controlled them 103 00:08:16,920 --> 00:08:22,080 Speaker 3: and Jews had feared Christians. A fifth and important lesson 104 00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:27,040 Speaker 3: that emerged from the Holocaust is it revealed we have 105 00:08:27,160 --> 00:08:31,720 Speaker 3: been really ignorant one of the other. Christians and Jews 106 00:08:31,720 --> 00:08:35,079 Speaker 3: have passed like ships in the night. We really don't 107 00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:41,000 Speaker 3: know until we've deeply taken time to look into each 108 00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:45,880 Speaker 3: other's communities, meet with each other, share with each other, 109 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:54,000 Speaker 3: do serious reading and education of the other. And so unfortunately, 110 00:08:54,400 --> 00:09:00,480 Speaker 3: the Church and the Synagogue had to accepted misunderstand and 111 00:09:00,559 --> 00:09:06,439 Speaker 3: stereotypes and misperceptions. Jews, for example, equated Christian missions with violence. 112 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:12,559 Speaker 3: Now all of us know good Christian missions does not 113 00:09:12,679 --> 00:09:19,920 Speaker 3: involve violence, but Jews largely had witnessed an advarant Christianity. 114 00:09:20,679 --> 00:09:25,040 Speaker 3: They begged, if you will will the true and the 115 00:09:25,080 --> 00:09:30,760 Speaker 3: real Christianity please stand up. The Holocaust, you see expose 116 00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:35,400 Speaker 3: the need for genuine Christianity to be practiced. I think 117 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:38,640 Speaker 3: a sixth thing, the Holocaust showed millions of Christians had 118 00:09:38,640 --> 00:09:43,240 Speaker 3: believed a lie. What lie did these Christians believe? Well, 119 00:09:43,360 --> 00:09:46,280 Speaker 3: Hitler and his minions said, we've got to purify the 120 00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:52,559 Speaker 3: human race. Jews are only licener ferred to be exterminated. 121 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:59,199 Speaker 3: They are intermentioned, that is, they are subhuman. And instead 122 00:09:59,240 --> 00:10:03,320 Speaker 3: of seeing the Jewish people as those into whom the 123 00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:10,760 Speaker 3: Church has been engrafted, this idea of the Arians being 124 00:10:10,840 --> 00:10:17,400 Speaker 3: the master race required some very very deep Christian introspection 125 00:10:19,120 --> 00:10:24,520 Speaker 3: Christian repentance following the Holocaust. Years the Church had believed 126 00:10:24,920 --> 00:10:28,440 Speaker 3: a lie, and one or two final things about the 127 00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:33,240 Speaker 3: Holocaust and how it's impacted Christian Jewish relation. It also 128 00:10:33,880 --> 00:10:38,240 Speaker 3: exposed the need for Christians to understand and appreciate the 129 00:10:38,280 --> 00:10:43,120 Speaker 3: fact that Christianity is Jewish because Christians did not affirm 130 00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:46,959 Speaker 3: their roots in the Jewish people, and the Jewish roots 131 00:10:46,960 --> 00:10:52,280 Speaker 3: of the Christian faith were not affirmed. Therefore, Christians had 132 00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:57,640 Speaker 3: little regard for these people, the Jewish people, instead of 133 00:10:57,840 --> 00:11:05,199 Speaker 3: a spirit of appreciation, indebtedness, thankfulness, thank you because everything 134 00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:09,199 Speaker 3: that's changed our lives, our Bible, our Lord, our doctrine, 135 00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:14,120 Speaker 3: our understanding of ethics, morality, spirituality, all of These are 136 00:11:14,160 --> 00:11:17,320 Speaker 3: among the gifts of the Jews that have impacted every 137 00:11:17,400 --> 00:11:22,839 Speaker 3: Christian today. And the thing is, today, certain Christians are 138 00:11:23,040 --> 00:11:27,760 Speaker 3: historical revisionists, are distortionists, as a Jewish friend likes to 139 00:11:27,800 --> 00:11:31,800 Speaker 3: put it to me, who minimize or like to deny 140 00:11:31,880 --> 00:11:34,800 Speaker 3: the facts of the Holocaust. Oh, the ovens were just 141 00:11:34,840 --> 00:11:42,280 Speaker 3: for baking bread, and other myths that are ridiculous. These 142 00:11:42,640 --> 00:11:46,680 Speaker 3: kinds of things called the sincerity of Christians into question. 143 00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:51,800 Speaker 3: If Christians are saying these kinds of things today, Jews 144 00:11:51,840 --> 00:11:57,200 Speaker 3: again wonder can we really trust Christians? How honest are 145 00:11:57,240 --> 00:12:00,720 Speaker 3: they even about the facts of history and to deny 146 00:12:00,840 --> 00:12:06,360 Speaker 3: the Holocaust. Ninth, the years following the Holocaust showed many 147 00:12:06,760 --> 00:12:10,720 Speaker 3: Christians can self correct and change, and that's one of 148 00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:15,520 Speaker 3: the pluses in the decades following the Holocaust. One Orthodox 149 00:12:15,640 --> 00:12:19,120 Speaker 3: rabbi from New York said to me recently, he said, 150 00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:23,480 Speaker 3: we see today many Christians who are willing to face 151 00:12:23,640 --> 00:12:30,040 Speaker 3: history and to look at this horrendous period of time 152 00:12:30,640 --> 00:12:34,640 Speaker 3: and to make adjustments, to make changes in their thinking 153 00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:38,200 Speaker 3: and their perceptions of the Jewish people. And that's a 154 00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:41,600 Speaker 3: good thing to know as we move forward. There are 155 00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:45,760 Speaker 3: Christians today that said the Church blew it during the Holocaust, 156 00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:49,439 Speaker 3: and today we want to make reparations, and one of 157 00:12:49,480 --> 00:12:53,240 Speaker 3: the first things we can do is in Christian Jewish 158 00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:57,240 Speaker 3: relations and to not look at Jews from a distance, 159 00:12:57,600 --> 00:13:01,080 Speaker 3: but care enough to come to know Jews. How can 160 00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:04,600 Speaker 3: you say we love our neighbor as ourselves if we've 161 00:13:04,720 --> 00:13:08,600 Speaker 3: never taken the time to understand and meet and know 162 00:13:09,520 --> 00:13:14,040 Speaker 3: our neighbors as ourselves. Those are some of the highlights 163 00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:19,040 Speaker 3: of what I think the Holocaust has shown for Christian 164 00:13:19,120 --> 00:13:20,040 Speaker 3: Jewish relations. 165 00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:24,080 Speaker 2: Today, let's take a break and hear a message from 166 00:13:24,120 --> 00:13:31,000 Speaker 2: one of our sponsors. Welcome back to the Out of 167 00:13:31,160 --> 00:13:33,360 Speaker 2: Zion podcast with Susan Michael. 168 00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:38,840 Speaker 1: You know, whereas most of our audience and our students 169 00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:44,400 Speaker 1: are probably of the Protestant or Evangelical tradition, I think 170 00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:48,079 Speaker 1: it's important for them to know the specific impact that 171 00:13:48,120 --> 00:13:51,160 Speaker 1: this had on the Catholic Church, and I think that 172 00:13:51,240 --> 00:13:55,800 Speaker 1: there are some lessons there for all of us well. 173 00:13:55,880 --> 00:14:03,880 Speaker 3: The Catholic Church has undergone some tremendous rethinking and made 174 00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:09,640 Speaker 3: changes in light of the Holocaust. Liturgy in the Catholic 175 00:14:09,720 --> 00:14:13,520 Speaker 3: Church that referred, for instance, on Good Friday of the 176 00:14:13,559 --> 00:14:19,600 Speaker 3: perfidious Jews, and so Catholics have had to go back 177 00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:25,960 Speaker 3: and to look at their history and their liturgy and 178 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:31,600 Speaker 3: these experiences, and they did amya culpa. They had a 179 00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:37,640 Speaker 3: confession of wrong. This all came to the head under 180 00:14:37,640 --> 00:14:41,720 Speaker 3: the leadership of Pope John the twenty third. Pope John 181 00:14:41,760 --> 00:14:45,240 Speaker 3: the twenty third called what we call today the Second 182 00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:52,160 Speaker 3: Vatican Council, or simply Vatican two. In that council, he 183 00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:57,760 Speaker 3: issued and the scholars who worked with him and hierarchs 184 00:14:57,840 --> 00:15:02,680 Speaker 3: in the Catholic Church a document called Nos E Tate. 185 00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:11,320 Speaker 3: In that document we have a statement given for non 186 00:15:11,520 --> 00:15:15,600 Speaker 3: Christian religions, but particularly focused on the Jewish people. It 187 00:15:15,680 --> 00:15:19,440 Speaker 3: was a landmark called to re examine, to reform, to 188 00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:24,280 Speaker 3: reverse a two thousand year history. What were some of 189 00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:29,000 Speaker 3: the features in Thattate document. Well, the first thing is 190 00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:34,360 Speaker 3: very important, God's covenant with Israel continues. Many Christians had 191 00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:39,320 Speaker 3: written that covenant off. Secondly, it called for a productive 192 00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:45,000 Speaker 3: dialogue between Catholics and Jews. Thirdly, there was a new 193 00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:50,120 Speaker 3: appreciation of the Jewish scriptures, emphasis on teaching and preaching 194 00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:54,680 Speaker 3: from the Hebrew Bible or the Christian Old Testament. And finally, 195 00:15:55,040 --> 00:15:57,560 Speaker 3: there was a call for the re examination of what 196 00:15:57,960 --> 00:16:04,200 Speaker 3: the Catholic Church came to call the teaching of contempt, 197 00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:09,760 Speaker 3: the charge for instance, of decide putting God to death literally, 198 00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:15,960 Speaker 3: but decide that Jews had been blamed for centuries for 199 00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:23,400 Speaker 3: killing Christ and does that charge then remained with the 200 00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:28,080 Speaker 3: Jewish people? And this teaching of contempt had to be 201 00:16:28,160 --> 00:16:37,360 Speaker 3: faced honestly and dealt with well, we know did provide 202 00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:44,840 Speaker 3: a very positive transformative frame of reference or framework to 203 00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:49,479 Speaker 3: move forward. Today we see the Conference of Catholic Bishops 204 00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:58,040 Speaker 3: being useful in helping to further the effects of their 205 00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:04,240 Speaker 3: number of local parish priests who have taken him on 206 00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:09,720 Speaker 3: themselves to reach out to the Jewish community. One of 207 00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:14,000 Speaker 3: my favorites was father Ed Flannery, who wrote the well 208 00:17:14,040 --> 00:17:17,680 Speaker 3: known book The Anguish of the Jews, which was an 209 00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:20,760 Speaker 3: utter revelation to him as he began to study this 210 00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:27,680 Speaker 3: history of Catholic Jewish relations. The other final thing I'd 211 00:17:27,720 --> 00:17:30,639 Speaker 3: say about the Catholics, they are working through some of 212 00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:38,200 Speaker 3: their Catholic schools which have Jewish and Catholic study centers 213 00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:44,240 Speaker 3: that provide programs and special lectures. Boston College has a 214 00:17:44,359 --> 00:17:48,080 Speaker 3: fine center with this is being done. Merrimac College in 215 00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:53,920 Speaker 3: Massachusetts is another college and down in Florida, Saint Leo 216 00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:59,040 Speaker 3: University on the west coast of Florida also has a 217 00:17:59,119 --> 00:18:05,760 Speaker 3: program to instruct people and to keep Vatican too before 218 00:18:05,920 --> 00:18:10,960 Speaker 3: people as hopefully these changes will continue, but some good 219 00:18:11,040 --> 00:18:14,119 Speaker 3: things have happened. There's a lot more work to do, 220 00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:19,360 Speaker 3: as they say, for both Catholics as well as Protestants. 221 00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:22,360 Speaker 1: But I think it's astounding that the Catholic Church did 222 00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:27,400 Speaker 1: such an introspection, even to the point of changing their liturgy. 223 00:18:28,320 --> 00:18:33,440 Speaker 1: And I know that the Conference of Catholic Bishops published 224 00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:37,840 Speaker 1: a little booklet and it had statements of repentance by 225 00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:42,000 Speaker 1: the various bishops across Europe, and those statements were really 226 00:18:42,119 --> 00:18:44,119 Speaker 1: moving for me. I thought they were some of the 227 00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:48,879 Speaker 1: most beautiful verbiage I'd ever read of repenting towards the 228 00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:55,160 Speaker 1: Jewish people. And so I think it's been quite astounding. Now, 229 00:18:55,240 --> 00:18:59,000 Speaker 1: the largest Protestant church there under the nose of the 230 00:18:59,040 --> 00:19:03,800 Speaker 1: Holocaust Accords were the Lutherans. And what have you seen 231 00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:08,280 Speaker 1: taking place there within the Lutheran community after the Holocaust. 232 00:19:09,520 --> 00:19:17,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, of course, the Lutherans were a dominant Protestant church 233 00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:23,800 Speaker 3: in Germany and in other parts of Europe. Several decades 234 00:19:23,840 --> 00:19:33,440 Speaker 3: after the Holocaust, the Lutheran Church began to become very uncomfortable, 235 00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:41,800 Speaker 3: and being uncomfortable, they said, what can we do? So 236 00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:47,560 Speaker 3: they decided to issue a statement, a statement which disassociated 237 00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:54,000 Speaker 3: themselves with these horrendous teachings of Martin Luther, saying these 238 00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:58,960 Speaker 3: are not the Luther we want to be remembered for 239 00:19:59,119 --> 00:20:04,560 Speaker 3: as being Luther. So there was a disassociation of themselves 240 00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:09,760 Speaker 3: with those remarks that began to catch on also with 241 00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:18,160 Speaker 3: many other mainline Protestant groups, the Episcopalians, the United Church 242 00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:25,560 Speaker 3: of Christ, the United Methodists of the United Presbyterians, and 243 00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:30,000 Speaker 3: these other churches began to issue statements also about the 244 00:20:30,119 --> 00:20:36,879 Speaker 3: Jewish people and Judaism. These documents mainly renounced anti Semitism. 245 00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:47,119 Speaker 3: These documents mainly spoke out against supersessionism and called for 246 00:20:47,760 --> 00:20:54,280 Speaker 3: a stronger emphasis on the preaching of the Old Testament 247 00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:58,639 Speaker 3: and on Jewish roots of the Christian faith. They tried 248 00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:02,680 Speaker 3: also to emphasize more things like the Jewish context for 249 00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:05,960 Speaker 3: the life and teachings of Jesus and a call for 250 00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:11,520 Speaker 3: an improvement of Christian Jewish relations. So even before evangelical 251 00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:16,200 Speaker 3: Jewish relations began, a lot of the main line churches 252 00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:21,520 Speaker 3: were moving in this direction within a decade or so 253 00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:25,640 Speaker 3: after the Holocaust years and then many of these denominations 254 00:21:26,359 --> 00:21:32,480 Speaker 3: eventually issuing statements. How would we summarize them the Lutherans 255 00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:37,720 Speaker 3: and mainline Protestants. Well, Jews look at all of this 256 00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:41,280 Speaker 3: and they would say, well, we're very pleased that none 257 00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:47,400 Speaker 3: of these statements by mainline denominations called for the conversion 258 00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:53,919 Speaker 3: of the Jewish people, and they do not have programs 259 00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:59,440 Speaker 3: for the conversion of the Jewish people. But Jews look 260 00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:04,080 Speaker 3: at the documents and they feel uncomfortable and with great 261 00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:09,440 Speaker 3: concern and dismay because those documents do not strongly support 262 00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:14,320 Speaker 3: the state of Israel, and certainly for large numbers of 263 00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:19,240 Speaker 3: people in the Jewish community, when you talk about what's 264 00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:23,520 Speaker 3: dear to the heart of a Jew in liturgy and 265 00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:28,320 Speaker 3: daily prayer, in how they invest their money in support 266 00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:37,120 Speaker 3: and so forth, Israel cannot be separated from the Jewish psyche. 267 00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:41,800 Speaker 3: But instead, many of these mainline denominations ended up having 268 00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:47,600 Speaker 3: almost singular focus on the rights of the Palestinian peoples. Yes, 269 00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:52,919 Speaker 3: they do have their rights, but these statements, some of 270 00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:58,200 Speaker 3: them went as far as saying, we have to issue 271 00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:02,560 Speaker 3: sanctions we have to issue boycotts, we have to issue 272 00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:11,280 Speaker 3: divestment instructions for investments, and these are the things that 273 00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:18,000 Speaker 3: have disturbed the Jewish community. So mainstream denominations created somewhat 274 00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:26,199 Speaker 3: of a paradox for the Jewish people. They are not 275 00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:32,000 Speaker 3: the people most Jews in America look to today as 276 00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:37,359 Speaker 3: the natural people who love the Word of God, and 277 00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:39,880 Speaker 3: out of the Word of God, they learn to love 278 00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:43,280 Speaker 3: the people of the Book. And who are the people 279 00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:47,639 Speaker 3: of the book. They are the Israelites, they are the Hebrews, 280 00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:50,480 Speaker 3: they are the Jewish people as we come into the 281 00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:56,400 Speaker 3: New Testament. And so the evangelical movement being a Bible 282 00:23:56,480 --> 00:24:02,360 Speaker 3: centered movement, the Jewish peopleeole have I think more naturally 283 00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:09,720 Speaker 3: come into focus for evangelicals. And maybe that leads us 284 00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:13,760 Speaker 3: to another point. We could talk about Susan what's been 285 00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:17,600 Speaker 3: happening in the last half century among evangelicals and Jews. 286 00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:20,760 Speaker 3: Does that sound like a good topic for a few 287 00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:21,440 Speaker 3: minutes here? 288 00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:27,960 Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely, I think you've really given us a broad 289 00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:31,440 Speaker 1: array of the impact that the Holocaust handled these segments 290 00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:35,000 Speaker 1: of Christianity. So now we do want to look forward 291 00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:42,520 Speaker 1: and the blossoming relationship of Jews and evangelicals over the 292 00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:46,560 Speaker 1: last fifty years, so please continue well. 293 00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:52,200 Speaker 3: I think one of the reasons the relationship has blossomed 294 00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:59,119 Speaker 3: Israel has been a key to that. In nineteen sixty seven, 295 00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:03,800 Speaker 3: there was an event that happened that really caught the 296 00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:09,560 Speaker 3: evangelical community's attention, not every church, but many, many Christians 297 00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:15,240 Speaker 3: who read scripture and realized that God made an eternal 298 00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:21,720 Speaker 3: covenant with Abraham, and something seemed to be happening prophetically 299 00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:28,920 Speaker 3: perhaps or maybe God guiding history providentially and bringing these 300 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:34,440 Speaker 3: people home, redeeming them from the four corners of the 301 00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:40,320 Speaker 3: earth where they could have self determination and assert their 302 00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:43,280 Speaker 3: own rights, where the nations of the earth did not 303 00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:48,360 Speaker 3: usually become a good host for them, where they were 304 00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:55,080 Speaker 3: discriminated against. And so evangelical Christians saw the Jewish people 305 00:25:55,119 --> 00:26:02,080 Speaker 3: after June of sixty seven now moving into West Jerusalem, 306 00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:05,560 Speaker 3: seeing the Western Wall, the Holy spot on Earth in 307 00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:08,639 Speaker 3: the city of Jerusalem where Jews come to pray. This 308 00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:13,640 Speaker 3: is now in the hands of Israel, And so this 309 00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:16,920 Speaker 3: led to a lot of thinking and speculation. What might 310 00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:19,400 Speaker 3: God be doing in Israel today? And while we have 311 00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:23,160 Speaker 3: no consensus among all Christians today what God is doing 312 00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:27,000 Speaker 3: in Israel today. I think you have to be pretty 313 00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:34,440 Speaker 3: stone cold and callous not to recognize some very powerful 314 00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:40,360 Speaker 3: and wonderful things are happening in that land. In what 315 00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:45,720 Speaker 3: way might they fulfill specific prophecies? While Christians have considerable 316 00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:49,280 Speaker 3: differences of opinion, just like the Jewish community does well 317 00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:53,880 Speaker 3: one thing, that's why Evangelical Jewish relations began to grow. 318 00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:59,920 Speaker 3: Because Evangelicals saw the wonderful things stories of these things happen. 319 00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:03,160 Speaker 3: They were reading about them. Now we've got to take 320 00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:06,680 Speaker 3: our Bibles and come over and see the land. So 321 00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:10,280 Speaker 3: they would come to the land, and tourism began to 322 00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:14,960 Speaker 3: grow as they visited the land, and of course the 323 00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:19,040 Speaker 3: Evangelical Church has invested more tourism dollars than any other 324 00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:22,840 Speaker 3: religious group in the world. And coming to see this 325 00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:28,400 Speaker 3: miracle astride the Mediterranean the land of Israel, and so 326 00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:34,680 Speaker 3: Evangelical Christian Zionist organizations began to develop in the Land 327 00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:40,720 Speaker 3: of Israel. Susan, you work for the International Christian Embassy 328 00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:45,360 Speaker 3: in Jerusalem, certainly one of the strongest and most vibrant 329 00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:49,040 Speaker 3: of these. You work with others in the land like 330 00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:52,040 Speaker 3: Bridges for Peace and Christian Friends of Israel, and there 331 00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:58,240 Speaker 3: are others. These Christian Zionist organizations provided a means by 332 00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:03,240 Speaker 3: which even though Chris live around the world, they can 333 00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:08,960 Speaker 3: take part in these events in Israel because Christian organizations 334 00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:15,040 Speaker 3: like I I CEJ, they are the boots on the 335 00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:20,640 Speaker 3: ground in Israel ministering to Israel in very positive ways 336 00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:27,720 Speaker 3: and social justice and in helping with the poor of 337 00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:34,399 Speaker 3: the community and assisting in a whole list of things. 338 00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:38,560 Speaker 3: And that's your area. But these Christians I Inist organizations 339 00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:42,840 Speaker 3: became ways in which people living in the States can 340 00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:46,280 Speaker 3: connect with Israel, get news from Israel, and build a 341 00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:53,440 Speaker 3: bonding with Israel. So this helped evangelical Christians in wanting 342 00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:57,080 Speaker 3: to build relations with Jewish people. They were envious of 343 00:28:57,200 --> 00:29:01,280 Speaker 3: people like your group Susan who could live in Israel 344 00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:05,760 Speaker 3: and every day build relationships with these people through whom 345 00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:09,680 Speaker 3: God was doing something new, and that was exciting too 346 00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:13,120 Speaker 3: many evangelicals who did not see God being dead but 347 00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:18,120 Speaker 3: very much alive and doing this new thing, albeit a 348 00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:21,840 Speaker 3: very difficult thing sometime to fully put your hands on it. 349 00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:26,040 Speaker 3: In my last chapter of Our Father Abraham, I talk 350 00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:30,120 Speaker 3: about what I have learned from over four hundred and 351 00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:34,560 Speaker 3: fifty field trips with my students into the Jewish community. 352 00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:39,640 Speaker 3: We live within on campus eight to ten synagogues within 353 00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:43,120 Speaker 3: a twelve mile radius, which took me twenty years to 354 00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:47,680 Speaker 3: open these synagogues to our students. I usually would bring them, 355 00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:51,480 Speaker 3: but they're opening our students to visit now, to come 356 00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:55,160 Speaker 3: anytime they want on their own or come with a class, 357 00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:59,880 Speaker 3: and we learn together. We become educated together. We attend 358 00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:04,320 Speaker 3: Jewish holidays, Shabbat meetings, we go to Jewish community centers, 359 00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:09,480 Speaker 3: we visit Jewish funeral homes, we go to a Holocaust 360 00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:16,800 Speaker 3: centers where we meet survivors, and so many opportunities. The 361 00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:20,360 Speaker 3: Jewish community has just opened up to us. And if 362 00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:23,800 Speaker 3: you're patient, and if you come with the right motives 363 00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:27,960 Speaker 3: to engage the Jewish community, and you're there primarily to 364 00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:32,200 Speaker 3: learn and to do a lot of listening, I think 365 00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:37,680 Speaker 3: this is where Jews come to have a changing perception 366 00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:43,760 Speaker 3: of evangelicals, where they realize that evangelicals indeed can be friends, 367 00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:49,120 Speaker 3: they can count on because they are people who are 368 00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:53,400 Speaker 3: there to learn and they have a Jewish heart, and 369 00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:59,680 Speaker 3: they are here to as in Israel we say a 370 00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:04,640 Speaker 3: comfort e, comfort e, my people. We have many rabbis 371 00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:08,480 Speaker 3: that come to our college and speak. They in turn 372 00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:15,840 Speaker 3: and have invited me Pasidic Orthodox Reform Conservative. I've spoken 373 00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:19,840 Speaker 3: in many, many synagogues in New England and outside of 374 00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:26,440 Speaker 3: New England, and I think this openness to invite each 375 00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:31,000 Speaker 3: other into each other's house of worship. When I started 376 00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:36,240 Speaker 3: doing this dialogue over fifty years ago, most Jews would 377 00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:39,320 Speaker 3: not want to enter a church. It was just too 378 00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:44,400 Speaker 3: painful after the Holocaust. But today there are more and 379 00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:50,520 Speaker 3: more Jews that are coming in their friendships with Christians 380 00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:54,240 Speaker 3: even to appreciate things going on well. 381 00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:58,840 Speaker 1: Doctor Wilson, I will say that very few Christian leaders 382 00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:01,960 Speaker 1: have had the amount of interaction with the Jewish community 383 00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:07,040 Speaker 1: that you have had, or have built that solid reciprocal 384 00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:12,720 Speaker 1: relationship of mutual respect and open doors. And you know, 385 00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:18,160 Speaker 1: I'm very aware that it also took many years, decades 386 00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:22,400 Speaker 1: to develop that relationship. So I want to emphasize for 387 00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:25,240 Speaker 1: those listening to this, and it is a relationship. It 388 00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:29,520 Speaker 1: doesn't happen overnight, and it's something that you build and 389 00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:33,240 Speaker 1: it takes time. And so you know a lot of 390 00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:36,920 Speaker 1: are the ones listening to you will be visiting a 391 00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:40,560 Speaker 1: synagogue or we'd love to visit a synagogue. We'd love 392 00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:44,880 Speaker 1: to initiate a relationship where there is none. So what 393 00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:48,160 Speaker 1: would be your advice and guidance to them how to 394 00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:51,800 Speaker 1: begin a relationship with their Jewish community? 395 00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:56,440 Speaker 3: Right? I think when we deal with each other, we 396 00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:59,880 Speaker 3: want to be honest. We want to be straightforward about 397 00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:03,200 Speaker 3: why we want to come to visit. And I think 398 00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:08,520 Speaker 3: the primary point for Christians wanting to meet and befriend 399 00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:16,320 Speaker 3: Jews is we need the education which many of them 400 00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:20,360 Speaker 3: can provide for us in giving us a much deeper 401 00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:25,880 Speaker 3: appreciation of the Hebrew Bible and prayer love for Israel. 402 00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:31,760 Speaker 3: How to perform social justice acts in the community to 403 00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:37,840 Speaker 3: make a difference. And while theologically Christians and Jews differ 404 00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:42,320 Speaker 3: the most, even those areas if we talk about them 405 00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:48,400 Speaker 3: with respectful conversation, that can be done. In fact, that's 406 00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:52,240 Speaker 3: a change I've noticed in fifty years. Never from a 407 00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:56,240 Speaker 3: pulpit would I've heard the word Jesus in a synagogue. 408 00:33:56,720 --> 00:33:59,800 Speaker 3: Now I can point out several synagogues. If I have 409 00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:04,520 Speaker 3: a group of Christian students visiting with me, Rabbis sometimes 410 00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:09,880 Speaker 3: make comments about Jesus a parallel teaching he might have 411 00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:14,520 Speaker 3: given to appoint the rabbis making in his sermon and 412 00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:20,640 Speaker 3: other things. So I think when we come we have 413 00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:24,640 Speaker 3: a lot to learn. Because while most Christians might think 414 00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:27,400 Speaker 3: they score fairly high in their knowledge of the first 415 00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:32,400 Speaker 3: two thousand years of Jewish history from Abraham to Jesus, sadly, 416 00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:36,719 Speaker 3: most Christians don't score very high from their knowledge of 417 00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:42,040 Speaker 3: Judaism from Jesus, that is, from Second Temple Judaism, through 418 00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:48,160 Speaker 3: Ravenic Judaism into its modern expressions. And therefore many Christians 419 00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:52,319 Speaker 3: make a mistake when their visiting synagogues. They try to 420 00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:58,279 Speaker 3: hear everything through the eyes of the Old Testament. Judaism 421 00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:05,200 Speaker 3: today urged from that religion. There is no more temple, 422 00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:09,000 Speaker 3: there are no more priests, there are no more animal sacrifice. 423 00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:16,239 Speaker 3: Judaism has reinterpreted many of these things, and they have 424 00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:21,680 Speaker 3: more modern counterparts where the spirit of some of these 425 00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:24,560 Speaker 3: things continued to be carried out. But these are the 426 00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:28,360 Speaker 3: things particularly that we can learn, I would say, also 427 00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:32,520 Speaker 3: another prerequisite is to have a humble spirit. Sadly, the 428 00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:35,799 Speaker 3: history of our relationship from the Christian point of view, 429 00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:42,440 Speaker 3: has often been one of triumphalism, arrogance, superiority, and pride. 430 00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:47,360 Speaker 3: These have been great barriers to effective Christian Jewish relation. 431 00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:52,439 Speaker 3: The Christian's posture when we begin Christian Jewish relations is 432 00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:55,920 Speaker 3: that of being a servant, of being a listener, of 433 00:35:56,040 --> 00:36:02,879 Speaker 3: being teachable, and that way we can learn as we 434 00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:06,920 Speaker 3: go along, rather than coming we have all the answers 435 00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:11,400 Speaker 3: for somebody else. No, this is the joy of learning 436 00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:15,719 Speaker 3: with Jewish people. Jews have an awful lot to teach Christians, 437 00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:20,920 Speaker 3: and Christians need to acknowledge this. And we Christians have 438 00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:26,080 Speaker 3: things that Jews can learn from. And I've I've pointed 439 00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:32,400 Speaker 3: out one or two rabbis in my book who point 440 00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:38,239 Speaker 3: out things they see so positive about Christian interaction and 441 00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:44,160 Speaker 3: they feel Jews can learn from this. But as we 442 00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:49,920 Speaker 3: do this together, we're seeking to build a better world 443 00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:58,799 Speaker 3: together in which God's love, God's justice, God's peace can 444 00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:02,280 Speaker 3: be found in the world world. If you want to 445 00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:07,400 Speaker 3: be successful in dialogue, have time for personal study and education. 446 00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:12,200 Speaker 3: Study is at the heart of Hebraic heritage. Build a 447 00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:16,359 Speaker 3: personal library of books. Begin to do this. Books on Judaism, 448 00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:19,879 Speaker 3: books on the history of the Jewish people, books on 449 00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:25,640 Speaker 3: the roots of Christianity that run very, very deep into 450 00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:31,160 Speaker 3: Jewish soil. How do you build good relationships well point 451 00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:34,720 Speaker 3: number one, and I think that's close to your heart. Susan, 452 00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:38,200 Speaker 3: I would tell people go to Israel as soon as 453 00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:41,879 Speaker 3: you can, as soon as possible. You'll be glad you did. 454 00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:45,880 Speaker 3: The Bible will come to life. The trip will change 455 00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:49,480 Speaker 3: your life. Not only will you read the Bible differently, 456 00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:53,840 Speaker 3: but it will give you a new perspective on the Holocaust, 457 00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:59,240 Speaker 3: on modern Israel and the church living in Israel. Speak 458 00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:04,520 Speaker 3: out against anti Semitism in your community. Few people are 459 00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:09,640 Speaker 3: doing that this day. Anti Semitism is on the increase. 460 00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:13,719 Speaker 3: Be aware of what's happening in the world today. If 461 00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:17,880 Speaker 3: you could be one voice that speaks out against hatred 462 00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:22,239 Speaker 3: of another people, you are an instrument of God. And 463 00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:25,040 Speaker 3: Jews are going to find out who this person is, 464 00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:28,439 Speaker 3: who's not one of our community, who's writing the letter 465 00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:32,040 Speaker 3: of protest, who's painting over the graffiti that was put 466 00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:36,760 Speaker 3: on a synagogue. It lets Jews know they are not alone, 467 00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:40,600 Speaker 3: or as the former editor of Christianity Today wants put 468 00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:45,759 Speaker 3: it to attack jewsus to attack Christians, and we Evangelicals 469 00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:52,560 Speaker 3: ought to be feeling that pain and standing beside Jewish people. Finally, 470 00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:56,880 Speaker 3: I would say we learn to love unconditionally when we 471 00:38:57,000 --> 00:39:02,799 Speaker 3: engage in interfaith relations. There are no pre conditions and 472 00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:09,520 Speaker 3: no prerequisites to evangelical Jewish friendships. We simply come together 473 00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:13,560 Speaker 3: and want to be used by the Spirit of God 474 00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:17,399 Speaker 3: and be led of the Spirit of God. We are 475 00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:23,360 Speaker 3: called to love with no strings attached. The Lord bless 476 00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:26,719 Speaker 3: all you students as you're out there growing in your 477 00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:30,319 Speaker 3: knowledge and your love of Israel and your love for 478 00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:34,359 Speaker 3: the Jewish people. It's worth it all and you will 479 00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:36,480 Speaker 3: be blessed by it in return. 480 00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:41,000 Speaker 4: Well, I hope you enjoyed that interview, and I want 481 00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:45,000 Speaker 4: to remind you again we link to doctor Marvin Wilson's 482 00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:48,520 Speaker 4: book Our Father Abraham and today's show notes. Be sure 483 00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:51,520 Speaker 4: and get a copy of this. This is the textbook 484 00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:54,880 Speaker 4: on Jewish Christian relations. And if this is something of 485 00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:58,200 Speaker 4: interest to you, then you must have that book. So 486 00:39:58,280 --> 00:40:00,239 Speaker 4: I will see you back here next week as we 487 00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:04,960 Speaker 4: continue our series on Jews and Christians learning to relate. 488 00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:09,480 Speaker 4: Until then, God bless and I want to offer you 489 00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:14,480 Speaker 4: a free download. We have a download ten Reasons to 490 00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:18,720 Speaker 4: Stand with Israel, and actually it's ten reasons why Christians 491 00:40:18,719 --> 00:40:22,480 Speaker 4: should stand with Israel. Get your free download by going 492 00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:26,799 Speaker 4: to the link in today's show note, or go to 493 00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:31,640 Speaker 4: www dot out of zionshow dot com and click on 494 00:40:32,120 --> 00:40:34,320 Speaker 4: the tab for resources. 495 00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:38,080 Speaker 5: We'll have it there as well, but be sure download 496 00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:42,240 Speaker 5: this free resource for you. We're going to be talking 497 00:40:42,280 --> 00:40:44,799 Speaker 5: about some of the points in it in the coming week, 498 00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:47,480 Speaker 5: so we want to make sure that you have it. 499 00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:49,680 Speaker 5: You can print it out, you can share it with 500 00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:53,400 Speaker 5: friends and family, invite them to join us here on 501 00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:57,080 Speaker 5: the Out of Zion Show for our Israel Answer series. 502 00:40:57,120 --> 00:41:00,359 Speaker 5: So we'll see you back here next week and until then, 503 00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:02,759 Speaker 5: God bless We. 504 00:41:02,719 --> 00:41:05,600 Speaker 2: Hope you have enjoyed this episode of Out of Zion 505 00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:09,000 Speaker 2: with Susan Michael. Be sure to subscribe to out of 506 00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:15,120 Speaker 2: Zion now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, Pray dot Com, 507 00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:20,160 Speaker 2: Salem Oneplace, Salem, Life Audio. Out of Zion with Susan 508 00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:24,720 Speaker 2: Michael is a production of ic EJUSA. All rights reserved. 509 00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:31,719 Speaker 2: This podcast is presented in partnership with Life Audio to 510 00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:35,600 Speaker 2: explore a wide range of faith centered podcasts on prayer, 511 00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:44,800 Speaker 2: Bible study, parenting, and more. Visit lifeaudio dot com.