1 00:00:02,640 --> 00:00:03,480 Speaker 1: Life Audio. 2 00:00:04,600 --> 00:00:06,280 Speaker 2: Hey, friend, Heather Creek Moore. Here, you're listening to the 3 00:00:06,280 --> 00:00:08,399 Speaker 2: Compared to You podcast. I'm glad you're here. We are 4 00:00:08,480 --> 00:00:14,040 Speaker 2: continuing a series that I'm calling the Gospel of Good Bodies. 5 00:00:14,440 --> 00:00:19,720 Speaker 2: We're looking at the ways religious language and even maybe 6 00:00:19,720 --> 00:00:23,800 Speaker 2: some Christian principles have snuck into the ways we relate 7 00:00:24,280 --> 00:00:29,320 Speaker 2: to food, our bodies, even fashion. Today we are talking 8 00:00:29,360 --> 00:00:34,960 Speaker 2: about how diet programs became salvation movements. Oh yikes, that 9 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:36,839 Speaker 2: sounds a little severe, but. 10 00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:37,840 Speaker 1: Maybe you've been there. 11 00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:41,239 Speaker 2: You're looking to drop a couple pounds, you're looking for 12 00:00:41,320 --> 00:00:44,560 Speaker 2: a good way to do that, and there's a program 13 00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:48,880 Speaker 2: at your church, or there's a program that someone at 14 00:00:48,920 --> 00:00:53,920 Speaker 2: your church is representing, and she's a Christian, they're Christians. 15 00:00:54,440 --> 00:00:57,120 Speaker 2: It's got to have God's rubber stamp on it. If 16 00:00:57,160 --> 00:00:59,920 Speaker 2: a Christian is doing it, wouldn't that be the safe 17 00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:02,720 Speaker 2: program to join? Wouldn't that be the best program to 18 00:01:02,760 --> 00:01:07,080 Speaker 2: be part of? A program that aligns with your values 19 00:01:07,520 --> 00:01:08,280 Speaker 2: as a believer. 20 00:01:08,800 --> 00:01:09,119 Speaker 1: Friend. 21 00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:15,720 Speaker 2: Of course I jump on that too, But today we're 22 00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:21,839 Speaker 2: gonna have to dig in to these slightly uncomfortable, awkward, 23 00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:30,720 Speaker 2: perhaps insidious ways these programs may have distracted fooled, conned 24 00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:37,520 Speaker 2: us into believing that God had rubber stamped them without 25 00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:40,200 Speaker 2: God having done such a thing. We talked in the 26 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:43,399 Speaker 2: last episode about what the Bible actually says around food 27 00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:47,840 Speaker 2: and so a lot of these rules and programs have 28 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:52,640 Speaker 2: added things to scripture and then made it sound like 29 00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:55,560 Speaker 2: it was just as important as following the Bible to 30 00:01:55,680 --> 00:01:58,840 Speaker 2: follow their plan. But they've also showed us a fake 31 00:01:58,880 --> 00:02:03,440 Speaker 2: definition of salvation right, that salvation is attained when you 32 00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:06,560 Speaker 2: change your body. And that's where it all gets really confusing. 33 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:09,000 Speaker 2: So I'm glad you're here today. Let's break it down. 34 00:02:09,760 --> 00:02:11,800 Speaker 2: We're gonna look it up da Via, We're gonna look 35 00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:13,720 Speaker 2: at the way down workshop. We're gonna talk about a 36 00:02:13,760 --> 00:02:14,320 Speaker 2: few others. 37 00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:15,120 Speaker 1: Let's go. 38 00:02:23,919 --> 00:02:27,160 Speaker 2: So, what if I told you there's a program with 39 00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:31,920 Speaker 2: a trained guide who will walk alongside you on your journey. 40 00:02:32,040 --> 00:02:34,240 Speaker 1: You can be with a community. 41 00:02:33,639 --> 00:02:38,239 Speaker 2: Of fellow travelers, all believers. You can have a moment 42 00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:41,880 Speaker 2: of transformation where you can cross over. You have a 43 00:02:41,919 --> 00:02:47,760 Speaker 2: promise of becoming your optimal self. Is that a church 44 00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:53,680 Speaker 2: or is that a diet plan? Well turns out functionally 45 00:02:53,960 --> 00:02:59,160 Speaker 2: it could be either. But what happens when a diet 46 00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:03,760 Speaker 2: program just drops the functionality and straight up becomes a church. 47 00:03:03,880 --> 00:03:07,959 Speaker 2: Well that's what happened with the way Down Workshop and 48 00:03:08,080 --> 00:03:11,079 Speaker 2: Gwen Champlain. I've done a couple other episodes on this. 49 00:03:11,480 --> 00:03:13,040 Speaker 2: I'll link those in the show notes. You can go 50 00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:16,360 Speaker 2: check them out. But today we're going to talk about 51 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:19,840 Speaker 2: what happened with way Down, and we're also gonna talk 52 00:03:19,919 --> 00:03:24,160 Speaker 2: about a sneakier program that's much more popular now. I 53 00:03:24,160 --> 00:03:28,280 Speaker 2: think way Down's pretty much out of vogue. We're gonna 54 00:03:28,280 --> 00:03:32,720 Speaker 2: talk about Optavia. Last time we established that everyday food 55 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:37,600 Speaker 2: language borrows from our biblical vocabulary. But today we're gonna 56 00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:41,800 Speaker 2: go deeper. What happens when it's not just the language, 57 00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:47,640 Speaker 2: it's a whole institution that is built a diet program, 58 00:03:47,880 --> 00:03:50,600 Speaker 2: or in the case of way Down, it went from 59 00:03:50,640 --> 00:03:53,200 Speaker 2: a workshop program to an actual church. 60 00:03:53,600 --> 00:03:54,360 Speaker 1: What happens when. 61 00:03:54,280 --> 00:04:00,040 Speaker 2: An institution builds that language in to its system and 62 00:04:01,240 --> 00:04:05,880 Speaker 2: really makes the religion of weight loss and dieting into 63 00:04:05,960 --> 00:04:09,280 Speaker 2: an actual religion. So the two case studies, like I said, 64 00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:11,240 Speaker 2: we're gonna look it up to via. It's a program 65 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:14,360 Speaker 2: that sounds religious. I don't know that it intends to be, 66 00:04:14,960 --> 00:04:17,200 Speaker 2: but I think it's pretty sneaky the way it's worked 67 00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:20,920 Speaker 2: through churches and Christian women, and I think that religious 68 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:24,960 Speaker 2: language makes it sneakier. And then the Way Down Workshop 69 00:04:25,560 --> 00:04:27,400 Speaker 2: was a program that intended to be religious and went 70 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:31,000 Speaker 2: all the way. But together they bracket the phenomena and 71 00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:34,560 Speaker 2: how this happens perfectly. My thesis for this episode is 72 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:40,120 Speaker 2: this diet culture and salvation religion. They share the same architecture. 73 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:41,240 Speaker 1: Follow me here. 74 00:04:42,480 --> 00:04:45,720 Speaker 2: You are in a fallen state, right, as Romans would say, 75 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:48,440 Speaker 2: all of sin and fallen short of the glory of God, right, 76 00:04:48,839 --> 00:04:52,359 Speaker 2: And so what you need is rescue. You need a 77 00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:59,440 Speaker 2: mediating authority, You need someone to save you, and then 78 00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:03,960 Speaker 2: you a path of transformation after that moment of salvation, right, 79 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:06,839 Speaker 2: so you can stay on the right path. And as 80 00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:09,200 Speaker 2: you're on that path of transformation, it's helpful to have 81 00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:14,200 Speaker 2: a community of others who have also been redeemed, so 82 00:05:14,279 --> 00:05:21,120 Speaker 2: you can be chasing the same vision together. And although 83 00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:23,080 Speaker 2: some of you heard that, you're like, of course, like, 84 00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:27,479 Speaker 2: that's my salvation story, right. I was lost, I found Jesus. 85 00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:29,360 Speaker 2: Now I'm found. I'm part of a church, I'm part 86 00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:33,360 Speaker 2: of a great community. But isn't it a little weird 87 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:38,040 Speaker 2: how being a part of some diet programs gives us 88 00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:41,480 Speaker 2: the exact same structure. I used to talk about it 89 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:44,680 Speaker 2: as the Biggest Loser definition of salvation if you ever 90 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:46,800 Speaker 2: watched the Biggest Loser show, and I did an episode 91 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:48,920 Speaker 2: on the new documentary on the Biggest Loser as well. 92 00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:52,360 Speaker 2: But you see this play out right, that people are 93 00:05:52,400 --> 00:05:57,839 Speaker 2: in hell. They are in pain from their body size. 94 00:05:58,040 --> 00:06:02,400 Speaker 2: They hate where they're at physically, they are in a 95 00:06:02,440 --> 00:06:03,200 Speaker 2: fallen state. 96 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:05,360 Speaker 1: They go to the Biggest Loser. 97 00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:08,280 Speaker 2: Ranch, they meet Bob or Jillian, and there are other 98 00:06:08,360 --> 00:06:14,000 Speaker 2: coaches after that who really give them the power to change. 99 00:06:14,360 --> 00:06:17,760 Speaker 2: They save them, They rescue them from their fallen state, 100 00:06:18,240 --> 00:06:20,680 Speaker 2: and then they put them on a path to transformation. 101 00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:23,800 Speaker 2: And they've got other contestants there along with them. So 102 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:26,359 Speaker 2: they have this community of people who are all trying 103 00:06:26,400 --> 00:06:31,320 Speaker 2: to live a right life according to Bob and Jillian's rules, 104 00:06:31,880 --> 00:06:35,599 Speaker 2: so they can achieve what is the ultimate And I 105 00:06:35,760 --> 00:06:40,160 Speaker 2: normally mockingly say wearing cute clothes and running marathons, But 106 00:06:40,880 --> 00:06:44,680 Speaker 2: the ultimate is some vision of health, a vision of thinness, 107 00:06:44,760 --> 00:06:48,200 Speaker 2: a vision of a different body size. And it sure 108 00:06:48,240 --> 00:06:52,680 Speaker 2: does sound a whole lot like salvation, right, So let's 109 00:06:52,720 --> 00:06:56,680 Speaker 2: look at how this is and how this happens. We'll 110 00:06:56,720 --> 00:07:04,040 Speaker 2: start with Upta Beia, Oh Optavia. Now, first hear me clearly, 111 00:07:04,839 --> 00:07:08,080 Speaker 2: if you are on Optavia, if you are coaching Optavia, 112 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:11,640 Speaker 2: this does not mean that you are running a cult, 113 00:07:11,960 --> 00:07:15,080 Speaker 2: leading a cult, that you are in any way bad 114 00:07:15,200 --> 00:07:16,240 Speaker 2: for being part of this. 115 00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:18,640 Speaker 1: Please don't hear what. 116 00:07:18,760 --> 00:07:22,400 Speaker 2: I'm not saying. I think I said that right. I'm 117 00:07:22,400 --> 00:07:25,800 Speaker 2: not saying that I have dear friends that have gone 118 00:07:25,840 --> 00:07:28,040 Speaker 2: through the Optavia program. I have women that I have 119 00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:32,640 Speaker 2: coached who have come out of an Optavia background, and 120 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:37,240 Speaker 2: we're actually quite successful in Optavia financially. My purpose here 121 00:07:37,280 --> 00:07:40,240 Speaker 2: today is not to condemn or shame anyone who's been 122 00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:44,320 Speaker 2: a part of Optavia. My purpose is just to reveal 123 00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:50,040 Speaker 2: to you the hidden danger of the way that diet 124 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:55,160 Speaker 2: programs may present themselves as an alternate religion. And with 125 00:07:55,280 --> 00:08:01,320 Speaker 2: Optavia we can see really clearly what I just explained about, 126 00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:03,880 Speaker 2: you know, the biggest loser definition of salvation, Like, in 127 00:08:04,040 --> 00:08:06,080 Speaker 2: order to need a savior, you have to be in 128 00:08:06,120 --> 00:08:10,080 Speaker 2: a fallen state, right, And Optavia does a beautiful job 129 00:08:10,400 --> 00:08:15,120 Speaker 2: of telling people that they are not yet their optimal self. 130 00:08:15,160 --> 00:08:20,160 Speaker 2: They're living in a suboptimal state. So in Christianity, that 131 00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:24,680 Speaker 2: suboptimal state is sin and separation from God. Right, that's 132 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:27,440 Speaker 2: like the beginning of why you need salvation. That's the 133 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:32,559 Speaker 2: diagnosis of the human problem. But in Optavia, your problem 134 00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:35,800 Speaker 2: is you've got too much fat. Your body fat percentages 135 00:08:35,880 --> 00:08:38,839 Speaker 2: to I. You are not your optimal self. And the 136 00:08:38,920 --> 00:08:42,880 Speaker 2: language of optimal is doing enormous work here. It implies 137 00:08:42,960 --> 00:08:47,280 Speaker 2: that there is a version of you that is hear this, 138 00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:50,520 Speaker 2: not just better, but there's a version of you that 139 00:08:50,640 --> 00:08:56,079 Speaker 2: is correct. Your current self is a deviation from that. 140 00:08:56,160 --> 00:09:00,440 Speaker 2: You're not right, You've got a problem and struck. Truly, 141 00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:04,280 Speaker 2: this is identical to the doctrine of the fall. Optavia 142 00:09:04,320 --> 00:09:07,640 Speaker 2: also wants you to explore the concept of your why. 143 00:09:08,520 --> 00:09:14,000 Speaker 2: You must identify your deep motivation, and this functions like 144 00:09:14,360 --> 00:09:19,680 Speaker 2: conviction of sin in an evangelical framework, you must feel 145 00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:24,120 Speaker 2: the weight of where you were before you can begin 146 00:09:24,520 --> 00:09:25,200 Speaker 2: the journey. 147 00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:27,840 Speaker 1: You have to know your why. 148 00:09:28,040 --> 00:09:31,880 Speaker 2: And oh it sounds so innocent, and yet does it 149 00:09:32,040 --> 00:09:36,640 Speaker 2: keep my focus on me and what I want for 150 00:09:36,800 --> 00:09:40,920 Speaker 2: my life versus being sold out for Jesus and what 151 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:43,800 Speaker 2: he wants from my life? Oh? 152 00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:44,120 Speaker 1: Friend? 153 00:09:44,160 --> 00:09:46,720 Speaker 2: And then there's the before photo. Okay, this is a 154 00:09:46,840 --> 00:09:53,199 Speaker 2: cultural artifact. The before photo documents your fallen state. It 155 00:09:53,240 --> 00:09:56,040 Speaker 2: is evidence of where you were. It is something to 156 00:09:56,080 --> 00:09:57,280 Speaker 2: be left behind. 157 00:09:58,240 --> 00:10:01,640 Speaker 1: It is occasional retrieved. 158 00:10:00,960 --> 00:10:05,480 Speaker 2: And posted on Instagram to demonstrate the far distance of 159 00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:10,160 Speaker 2: your sanctification that you have traveled. This is your testimony. 160 00:10:10,640 --> 00:10:13,400 Speaker 2: This is your I once was lost, but now I 161 00:10:13,480 --> 00:10:19,760 Speaker 2: am found. This is your evidence of Abtavilla saving you. 162 00:10:21,559 --> 00:10:25,080 Speaker 2: And it just scares us a little bit that we 163 00:10:25,160 --> 00:10:29,800 Speaker 2: don't even notice. David zol I quoted in the last episode. 164 00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:31,600 Speaker 2: He's written a couple great books, but one of them 165 00:10:31,679 --> 00:10:35,920 Speaker 2: is called Seculosity, and zol notes that secular salvation movements 166 00:10:36,160 --> 00:10:42,520 Speaker 2: always begin with a diagnosis you are not enough, and 167 00:10:42,559 --> 00:10:48,560 Speaker 2: that generates the anxiety that the program promises to resolve. 168 00:10:49,280 --> 00:10:52,880 Speaker 2: And let me just be clear here. The program doesn't 169 00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:56,760 Speaker 2: just promise to resolve it, right, you pay to have 170 00:10:56,840 --> 00:11:00,800 Speaker 2: it resolved. The program is selling you something. So the 171 00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:04,560 Speaker 2: program is pointing out a flaw, a problem in a 172 00:11:04,679 --> 00:11:07,680 Speaker 2: challenge area for you, and then selling you something to 173 00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:10,960 Speaker 2: fix it. And it all starts with that diagnosis you 174 00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:16,200 Speaker 2: are not enough. Now that's different than what God does, right, 175 00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:19,480 Speaker 2: because he says you are not enough, but then Jesus 176 00:11:19,520 --> 00:11:21,679 Speaker 2: gives you a free gift of salvation. 177 00:11:22,679 --> 00:11:24,720 Speaker 1: God doesn't have a motive. 178 00:11:24,679 --> 00:11:30,400 Speaker 2: For you that's profitable for him. He gives you a 179 00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:34,040 Speaker 2: free gift of grace. But that's not what these diet 180 00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:39,360 Speaker 2: companies do. It's expensive, and that's kind of the genius 181 00:11:39,360 --> 00:11:42,800 Speaker 2: of seculosity, according to Zaul. He says, it creates the 182 00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:48,280 Speaker 2: wound and then sells the bandage. And if you're friends 183 00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:52,839 Speaker 2: with people who sell or coach Optavia online, that's what 184 00:11:52,880 --> 00:11:55,319 Speaker 2: you're gonna see over and over again. Their marketing begins 185 00:11:55,320 --> 00:11:58,800 Speaker 2: with stories of shame and low self worth. I was 186 00:11:58,880 --> 00:12:03,160 Speaker 2: not enough, I was not enough, And the before is 187 00:12:03,240 --> 00:12:08,040 Speaker 2: as emotional as it is physical. It's not just the weight, 188 00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:14,680 Speaker 2: it's how I felt on the inside. Oh but don't worry. 189 00:12:15,400 --> 00:12:19,280 Speaker 2: Optavia is here to save you. So once you succeed 190 00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:26,120 Speaker 2: in the Optavia plan, you can become an Optavia health coach. 191 00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:29,240 Speaker 2: And that's what their structure is built around. 192 00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:29,720 Speaker 1: Now. 193 00:12:29,800 --> 00:12:33,400 Speaker 2: I have lots of friends who are licensed dieticians who 194 00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:37,360 Speaker 2: went to school for six years or more to be 195 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:43,360 Speaker 2: you know, professional eating disorder counselor or to like, have 196 00:12:43,760 --> 00:12:48,040 Speaker 2: the advanced degrees to tell people how to eat. But 197 00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:52,240 Speaker 2: Optavia's coaches do not have that training. They were just 198 00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:58,280 Speaker 2: previous clients in the Optavia system, and their authority comes 199 00:12:58,360 --> 00:13:02,000 Speaker 2: from their own personal transfer, their own ability to lose weight, 200 00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:06,120 Speaker 2: not from any credentials. And the structure of this is 201 00:13:06,200 --> 00:13:08,520 Speaker 2: kind of like a testimony based ministry. 202 00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:09,240 Speaker 1: Right. 203 00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:14,920 Speaker 2: I can't offer you, like any actual expertise, but I 204 00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:17,920 Speaker 2: can tell you how it worked for me, and since 205 00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:19,600 Speaker 2: it worked for me, I believe it'll. 206 00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:21,000 Speaker 1: Work for you, So come along. 207 00:13:21,880 --> 00:13:27,720 Speaker 2: The clach relationship is explicitly described in quasi pastoral terms. 208 00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:33,320 Speaker 2: They walk alongside you. They provide support and accountability. They're 209 00:13:33,320 --> 00:13:36,880 Speaker 2: going to celebrate your victories and help you through your struggles. 210 00:13:37,559 --> 00:13:43,520 Speaker 2: It is pastoral care language verbatim. And then there's accountability, 211 00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:46,760 Speaker 2: which is confession right, and Scripture tells us, if we 212 00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:48,880 Speaker 2: can confess our sins, he's faithful and just to forgive 213 00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:52,000 Speaker 2: us our sins, right in terms of confessing to Jesus 214 00:13:52,160 --> 00:13:56,120 Speaker 2: our actual sins. And then there's also benefit in confessing 215 00:13:56,200 --> 00:14:00,760 Speaker 2: to each other, and Optavia gives you that too. Regular 216 00:14:00,880 --> 00:14:04,680 Speaker 2: check in serve as your opportunity to confess. But what 217 00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:09,760 Speaker 2: are you confessing? Not sins against the God of the universe. 218 00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:14,280 Speaker 2: It sins against the program. How did you adhere to 219 00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:15,720 Speaker 2: the program? What struggles did you have? 220 00:14:16,120 --> 00:14:18,040 Speaker 1: What quote unquote failures. 221 00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:20,280 Speaker 2: Did you have in adhering to the program, And then 222 00:14:20,320 --> 00:14:24,960 Speaker 2: you get guidance and encouragement. There is absolution for your 223 00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:28,080 Speaker 2: sins available as you meet with your coach and you 224 00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:33,680 Speaker 2: recommit to the plan. Now, if Robert Capone was able 225 00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:36,960 Speaker 2: to speak into Octavia, which he was not, he was 226 00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:41,520 Speaker 2: probably no longer alive when Opdavia became its current form, 227 00:14:42,240 --> 00:14:45,560 Speaker 2: he would be sharp Here he writes about the difference 228 00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:48,840 Speaker 2: between grace and law. Grace receives you as you are, 229 00:14:49,280 --> 00:14:54,000 Speaker 2: whereas law defines what you must become. And the coaching relationship, 230 00:14:54,240 --> 00:14:59,960 Speaker 2: for all of its warmth, is fundamentally law structured that coach, 231 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:02,000 Speaker 2: which is there because there is a standard and you're 232 00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:05,240 Speaker 2: going to be measured against it, and the relationship is 233 00:15:05,280 --> 00:15:11,080 Speaker 2: contingent on you continuing to pursue that standard. And so 234 00:15:11,280 --> 00:15:14,320 Speaker 2: it feels like maybe they're giving you grace because they're nice, 235 00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:17,800 Speaker 2: but they're still delivering the law. They still expect you 236 00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:21,800 Speaker 2: to buy the products, use the products, stay on plan, 237 00:15:22,440 --> 00:15:24,280 Speaker 2: and have to be as not alone in that I 238 00:15:24,280 --> 00:15:29,120 Speaker 2: mean you know, weight watchers. So many programs want you 239 00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:33,240 Speaker 2: to stay on plan. That's the endgame. Stay on plan, 240 00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:37,040 Speaker 2: obey the law, and if you obey the law, you 241 00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:40,920 Speaker 2: will get what you deserve at the end, which is 242 00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:44,240 Speaker 2: the weight loss. Of course, doesn't always work that way, 243 00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:49,040 Speaker 2: but that's what we're promised and what we buy. Also, 244 00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:52,320 Speaker 2: it's worth noting that the multi level structure of Optavia 245 00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:56,960 Speaker 2: coaching coaches recruit coaches. It creates a hierarchy that feels 246 00:15:57,000 --> 00:16:01,200 Speaker 2: like spiritual authority. I mean, you've got your high priests, 247 00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:04,360 Speaker 2: and then your high high priests, and you've got popes. 248 00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:08,040 Speaker 2: I mean, it is the ones who were in it 249 00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:11,680 Speaker 2: from the very beginning. And remember it's an MLM multi 250 00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:16,520 Speaker 2: level marketing program. They are the wisest of the wise, 251 00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:21,200 Speaker 2: the gurus, and then it trickles down through the other coaches. 252 00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:22,800 Speaker 1: But that's not all. 253 00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:27,080 Speaker 2: Optavia also offers its own plan of sanctification, in its 254 00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:32,880 Speaker 2: own form of eschatology. It has spiritual disciplines and ways 255 00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:36,120 Speaker 2: for you to find your optimal self. So Optavia has 256 00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:42,280 Speaker 2: habits of health, which, if you examine them, parallel spiritual disciplines. Precisely, 257 00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:47,160 Speaker 2: it's practices performed consistently that will transform you over time. 258 00:16:48,280 --> 00:16:52,760 Speaker 2: Optavia also uses this phrase called crossing over. That's when 259 00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:57,840 Speaker 2: you are transitioning from weight loss to maintenance and man friends. 260 00:16:57,840 --> 00:17:01,600 Speaker 2: That's kind of biblical, right. It evokes like a promised land, 261 00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:05,920 Speaker 2: like death and resurrection kind of imagery. And the fact 262 00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:10,440 Speaker 2: that this language services like unconsciously, I think makes that 263 00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:17,240 Speaker 2: even more interesting, not less is your promised land when 264 00:17:17,320 --> 00:17:22,040 Speaker 2: you go to maintenance space. Yikes. I think of the 265 00:17:22,119 --> 00:17:24,920 Speaker 2: Josiah Queen song promised Land. If you don't know that one, 266 00:17:25,040 --> 00:17:29,440 Speaker 2: take a listen. It also gives you community infrastructure. There's 267 00:17:29,560 --> 00:17:34,200 Speaker 2: Facebook groups, local meetings, online forums, and these are congregations. 268 00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:39,720 Speaker 2: These are gathered people who reinforce their commitment. They share testimonies. Oh, 269 00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:43,720 Speaker 2: they mourn the relapses that they celebrate the milestones too, 270 00:17:44,880 --> 00:17:48,240 Speaker 2: just like a church. We all need community, don't we. 271 00:17:49,200 --> 00:17:51,480 Speaker 2: And then there's this whole concept of the optimal self. 272 00:17:52,320 --> 00:17:56,720 Speaker 2: This is your eschatological vision, your vision of heaven. You 273 00:17:56,760 --> 00:18:00,919 Speaker 2: are simultaneously both you and not you. There is a 274 00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:04,119 Speaker 2: redeemed version of you that is freed from the fallen state. 275 00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:07,840 Speaker 2: And the before and after photo is your testimony and 276 00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:11,199 Speaker 2: that's shared both as evidence of the program working and 277 00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:17,359 Speaker 2: as an invitation for more people to follow. Oh, friends, 278 00:18:17,359 --> 00:18:20,320 Speaker 2: I think about what David Zol would say, and he says, 279 00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:23,560 Speaker 2: in seculosity, when we seek righteousness and things that cannot 280 00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:29,000 Speaker 2: ultimately deliver it, we don't find rest. We find a treadmill. 281 00:18:29,720 --> 00:18:34,000 Speaker 2: And Optavia promises the optimal self, but the optimal self 282 00:18:34,119 --> 00:18:37,240 Speaker 2: is going to just keep receding. So months ago I 283 00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:41,080 Speaker 2: discovered an Instagram account called Optavia Uncovered. I don't even 284 00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:45,720 Speaker 2: know why it went by me, but the post caught 285 00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:50,560 Speaker 2: my attention because it's said on the surface, it sounds spiritual, 286 00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:56,640 Speaker 2: but what's really happening. And this account kind of exposes 287 00:18:56,720 --> 00:18:58,960 Speaker 2: a lot of the things behind Optavia, whether it be 288 00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:03,320 Speaker 2: nutritional e or like what's in the fueling foods and 289 00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:04,080 Speaker 2: those kind of things. 290 00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:06,160 Speaker 1: But this one was. 291 00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:09,679 Speaker 2: Just really about how they use Christian language. And so 292 00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:13,200 Speaker 2: here's a letter that she posted and this is okay, 293 00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:15,879 Speaker 2: So this is inside of the diet plan. This is 294 00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:19,760 Speaker 2: a letter to other people inside the diet plan. And 295 00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:21,920 Speaker 2: tell me if this sounds a little creepy to you. 296 00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:25,919 Speaker 2: Letter to my brothers and sisters in Christ, to my 297 00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:27,959 Speaker 2: brothers and sisters in Christ, and to the many who 298 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:30,719 Speaker 2: have joined the Family of God in the last thirty days, 299 00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:34,600 Speaker 2: I feel such a holy expectancy in my spirit. After 300 00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:36,840 Speaker 2: walking with the Lord for forty two years, I can 301 00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:39,359 Speaker 2: tell you this moment matters. I feel it deeply in 302 00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:42,080 Speaker 2: my bones. To those who have been journeying this walk 303 00:19:42,119 --> 00:19:45,320 Speaker 2: for a long time, it's time. Time to kick sugar 304 00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:48,879 Speaker 2: in the face, time to kick alcohol in the face. 305 00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:54,600 Speaker 2: Time to uproot pride, ignorance, complacency, and delay. Heaven is 306 00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:58,040 Speaker 2: on the move and so many are coming home to 307 00:19:58,119 --> 00:20:00,520 Speaker 2: the Kingdom righte now. 308 00:20:01,520 --> 00:20:01,800 Speaker 1: Friend. 309 00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:06,320 Speaker 2: If that doesn't freak you out and scare you silly, 310 00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:10,600 Speaker 2: it kind of should. Sounds a little bit like one 311 00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:13,520 Speaker 2: of Paul's letters, Letters to my brothers and sisters in Christ. 312 00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:17,399 Speaker 2: Joining the Family of God is not about new believers 313 00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:20,840 Speaker 2: who have committed their lives to follow Jesus, no turning back. 314 00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:22,960 Speaker 2: I'm a slave to Christ. It's about people who have 315 00:20:23,040 --> 00:20:29,000 Speaker 2: joined Optavia. The holy expectancy I think, I think is 316 00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:33,240 Speaker 2: that more people are going to join the Plan. And 317 00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:36,760 Speaker 2: for those who've been journeying a long time, she means 318 00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:40,200 Speaker 2: journeying on the Plan a long time, and what's it 319 00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:44,040 Speaker 2: time for? It's not time for things that scripture actually 320 00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:51,399 Speaker 2: commands of us, right, like the harvest evangelism, like inviting 321 00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:54,200 Speaker 2: others to a new way of following Jesus. No, it's 322 00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:56,680 Speaker 2: time to kick sugar in the face, and it's time 323 00:20:56,720 --> 00:20:59,560 Speaker 2: to kick alcohol in the face. And I'm afraid it. 324 00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:01,720 Speaker 2: It really is time to kick pride in the face. 325 00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:06,240 Speaker 2: But I'm afraid what follows that pride, ignorance, complacency, and delay. 326 00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:11,840 Speaker 2: I don't really believe that's about spiritual truths. I actually 327 00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:16,720 Speaker 2: think that's about ignorance, complacency, and delay is about not 328 00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:22,840 Speaker 2: eating the way Optavia wants you to eat. Friend, That's scary. 329 00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:29,480 Speaker 2: That should be really scary. That sounds a little like 330 00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:33,560 Speaker 2: a cult, mixing kicking sugar in the face and uprooting 331 00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:37,960 Speaker 2: pride in the same sentence. That's what we talked about 332 00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:42,000 Speaker 2: in the last episode, trying to make food habits sound 333 00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:47,240 Speaker 2: like sinful traits. Making eating sugar has the same kind 334 00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:52,119 Speaker 2: of sin against God as pride. God opposes the proud 335 00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:54,800 Speaker 2: and gives grace to the humble. We all know that verse. 336 00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:57,760 Speaker 2: Is there averse about God opposes those who eat sugar? 337 00:21:57,840 --> 00:21:58,439 Speaker 1: I don't think so. 338 00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:01,919 Speaker 2: In fact, I think John the aptist a wild Locusts 339 00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:09,040 Speaker 2: and honey, which technically has sugar in it. Interesting right, Oh, 340 00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:12,320 Speaker 2: and then she says, Heaven is on the move. Friend, 341 00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:19,280 Speaker 2: there's apocalyptic pressure here. Act now or be left behind. 342 00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:22,600 Speaker 2: And it's not just being left behind in an organization. 343 00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:28,320 Speaker 2: This is like missing Heaven. That sounds mighty cultish to me. 344 00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:31,880 Speaker 2: Now again, if you're on Optavia right now, if you're 345 00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:34,800 Speaker 2: coaching Optavia, I'm not mad at you. I just want 346 00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:38,639 Speaker 2: you to be aware because I don't know that Optavia. 347 00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:39,800 Speaker 1: Has fully crossed over. 348 00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:45,480 Speaker 2: To use their language into cult status, But goodness gracious, 349 00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:49,439 Speaker 2: the infrastructure is there. And I do want to just 350 00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:52,359 Speaker 2: point out that if you think Optavia is new, it's not. 351 00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:56,159 Speaker 2: It was a program called Metafast. I had family members 352 00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:58,320 Speaker 2: on it in the eighties and nineties. They were sued 353 00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:03,840 Speaker 2: because it was terribly dangerous and people god hurt and died. 354 00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:08,560 Speaker 2: They were sued, had to rebrand and started again as Optavia, 355 00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:10,920 Speaker 2: And I think we might be looking at the same 356 00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:16,040 Speaker 2: kind of end game for Optavia because people, maybe they're 357 00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:19,800 Speaker 2: not dying yet, but they are losing their periods and 358 00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:23,000 Speaker 2: losing their hair. It is very dangerous to follow a 359 00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:28,000 Speaker 2: plan that restricts your calories so severely, and also restricts 360 00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:31,040 Speaker 2: your calories by making you just eat food that you 361 00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:34,600 Speaker 2: pay for. While preaching against processed foods, the foods that 362 00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:38,200 Speaker 2: you're buying from Optavia are indeed processed because they are 363 00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:42,800 Speaker 2: in packages. So just throwing that out there for your consideration, 364 00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:46,280 Speaker 2: you get to choose. You are free. But this isn't 365 00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:53,720 Speaker 2: the gospel. This isn't what true following Jesus, Heaven and Hell, 366 00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:57,199 Speaker 2: brothers and sisters in christ Christian community, that's not what 367 00:23:57,280 --> 00:24:00,439 Speaker 2: this is about. And if you think it can't be 368 00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:06,040 Speaker 2: taken too far, let me just say two words. Gwen Shamblain. 369 00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:08,480 Speaker 2: If you've never heard of Gwen Chamblain, she was a 370 00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:12,840 Speaker 2: registered dietitian in Tennessee in the late eighties. Became convinced 371 00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:18,240 Speaker 2: that conventional dieting was failing because it only addressed. 372 00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:20,439 Speaker 1: The symptom, which was overeating, rather than. 373 00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:25,960 Speaker 2: The cause, which was spiritual hunger misdirected at food, and honestly, 374 00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:30,760 Speaker 2: I think where she started was probably okay, but it 375 00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:35,680 Speaker 2: went bad fast. In nineteen ninety two, she started a 376 00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:38,880 Speaker 2: workshop called the Way Down Workshop. It was in thousands 377 00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:42,040 Speaker 2: and thousands of churches across the country. She wrote a 378 00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:44,399 Speaker 2: book in nineteen ninety seven called The Way Down Diet. 379 00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:47,520 Speaker 2: You might have it on your shelf or your mom does. 380 00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:52,280 Speaker 2: It became a massive bestseller. Oh but then later she 381 00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:59,800 Speaker 2: decided to turn her weight loss church into an actual church, 382 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:03,159 Speaker 2: the Remnant Fellowship Church, and eventually Shamblin died in a 383 00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:07,200 Speaker 2: plane crash. In twenty twenty one Netflix documentary called The 384 00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:09,800 Speaker 2: Way Down. There's also an HBO Max documentary on it, 385 00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:14,560 Speaker 2: which both are very fascinating. So where Octavius said you're 386 00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:19,800 Speaker 2: not your optimal self, Gwen Shamblain said that you are 387 00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:28,600 Speaker 2: sinning because you are overeating. She identified overeating as a 388 00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:33,400 Speaker 2: type of spiritual adultery, and she believed that it wasn't 389 00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:37,640 Speaker 2: a behavioral problem or a psychological problem, that overeating was. 390 00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:38,400 Speaker 1: Just straight up sin. 391 00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:40,919 Speaker 2: And specifically she was saying it was the sin of 392 00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:44,479 Speaker 2: loving food more than loving God. And I think we 393 00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:48,040 Speaker 2: see the influences of that in Lisa Turker's book from 394 00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:49,560 Speaker 2: I don't know it was the early two thousands, May 395 00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:52,360 Speaker 2: it was the nineties, Made to Crave, And I don't 396 00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:54,760 Speaker 2: know if Turkers still adheres to that. Maybe she does, 397 00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:56,720 Speaker 2: maybe she doesn't. I mean, we all write books and 398 00:25:56,760 --> 00:26:00,240 Speaker 2: then we change and grow and learn new things. But 399 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:02,080 Speaker 2: the problem here is that I think it creates a 400 00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:07,320 Speaker 2: false dichotomy that you can either love food or you 401 00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:15,480 Speaker 2: can love God, or that your physiological need to eat 402 00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:21,120 Speaker 2: is something that should be dampened because it is hurting your. 403 00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:22,040 Speaker 1: Ability to love God. 404 00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:26,560 Speaker 2: It gets very messy and very confusing. So I still 405 00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:27,760 Speaker 2: have a lot of people that come to me and 406 00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:30,080 Speaker 2: they're like, I am an idolag or hoether, you're right, 407 00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:33,880 Speaker 2: and my idol is food. But often as we dig 408 00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:37,560 Speaker 2: into it more, it'll be like, no, your idol is 409 00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:41,760 Speaker 2: your body, and your fear is that food is going 410 00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:44,879 Speaker 2: to change your body. But we all want the idol 411 00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:49,320 Speaker 2: to be food because then it's acceptable to stop eating. 412 00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:52,640 Speaker 2: And that's what Chamblin did. Okay, So, if you've watched 413 00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:56,240 Speaker 2: all those documentaries, she started this obsession because she was 414 00:26:56,400 --> 00:26:59,320 Speaker 2: four pounds over the weight. She determined she needed to 415 00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:04,879 Speaker 2: be a tiny woman and was four pounds overweight and 416 00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:08,440 Speaker 2: turned it into this whole thing where she was quote 417 00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:11,560 Speaker 2: unquote overeating and has a dietitian. She should have known 418 00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:18,480 Speaker 2: she wasn't overeating, but really started restrictive eating overly restrictive eating. 419 00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:20,520 Speaker 2: I mean, if you watch the documentaries read about her, 420 00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:24,280 Speaker 2: she obviously had an eating disorder, but basically justified her 421 00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:31,919 Speaker 2: eating disorder through arguing that eating was sin, or that 422 00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:36,360 Speaker 2: if you couldn't stop eating, if you couldn't completely control 423 00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:39,600 Speaker 2: your hunger, then it was because you loved the food 424 00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:41,320 Speaker 2: more than you loved God. 425 00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:42,800 Speaker 1: And we kind of miss. 426 00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:48,240 Speaker 2: Physiology there, right, Like, you actually do have physical hunger, 427 00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:51,560 Speaker 2: and your body knows. Your body's very smart and knows 428 00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:54,160 Speaker 2: what it needs to run every day, and it's going 429 00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:57,479 Speaker 2: to give you hunger signals and ask for food so 430 00:27:57,520 --> 00:27:58,080 Speaker 2: it will have. 431 00:27:58,160 --> 00:27:59,760 Speaker 1: Energy to do that. 432 00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:03,119 Speaker 2: Now, I'll give Shamblain like half a second of credit 433 00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:08,800 Speaker 2: because it is true that sometimes we do feed emotional 434 00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:13,440 Speaker 2: hunger with food, and it's not physical hunger. That does 435 00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:19,919 Speaker 2: happen absolutely, But she took it too far and she 436 00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:24,639 Speaker 2: missed the idolatry. The idolatry is not so much in 437 00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:27,879 Speaker 2: the eating, which is something we all must do. The 438 00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:33,240 Speaker 2: idolatry is in looking for the glory for ourselves by 439 00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:36,280 Speaker 2: changing our body or having a body that looks more 440 00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:39,160 Speaker 2: like we wanted to look. I mean, it wasn't God's 441 00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:42,200 Speaker 2: standard that Gwen needed to be four pounds thinner. That 442 00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:47,480 Speaker 2: was Gwen's standard. And if you've watched Gwen through these documentaries, 443 00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:51,040 Speaker 2: Gwen was quite concerned about how she looked, and so 444 00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:54,560 Speaker 2: it's clear that she did this from a place of 445 00:28:54,760 --> 00:29:00,680 Speaker 2: selfish ambition and pride. And this wasn't really about getting 446 00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:04,000 Speaker 2: to a place where she was sold out and only 447 00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:07,840 Speaker 2: hungering for God and what he wanted. And that's where 448 00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:11,040 Speaker 2: it gets confusing. She put a moral and spiritual steak 449 00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:14,680 Speaker 2: around eating and food consumption that shouldn't be there. And 450 00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:18,240 Speaker 2: if you've watched the documentaries, you saw just how many 451 00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:21,520 Speaker 2: women came out of her programs or working with her 452 00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:25,160 Speaker 2: closely or being a part of her church with serious 453 00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:28,400 Speaker 2: eating disorders. You can even look at her daughter now, 454 00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:30,600 Speaker 2: who I think is still helping run the church, and 455 00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:35,400 Speaker 2: it's fairly clear that she also has a serious eating disorder. 456 00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:36,000 Speaker 1: Friend. 457 00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:43,440 Speaker 2: It's sad, but Gwen preached that not eating, controlling your 458 00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:48,000 Speaker 2: body not to eat was a pure, cleaner way to live. 459 00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:50,640 Speaker 2: It was God's standard, it was God's law, and that 460 00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:53,800 Speaker 2: was just straight up dangerous. 461 00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:55,600 Speaker 1: But how did she do it well? 462 00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:57,960 Speaker 2: She did it the same way that opt to beas 463 00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:01,440 Speaker 2: doing it in part right. We started by structuring it 464 00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:04,760 Speaker 2: like small group Bible studies, but then Way Down actually 465 00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:08,200 Speaker 2: became like a revival. It ran in churches. They had 466 00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:11,360 Speaker 2: national meetings, like participants gathered weekly and they shared their 467 00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:15,800 Speaker 2: testimonies and confess their struggles and they celebrated losses. And 468 00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:19,960 Speaker 2: the confession structure in the Way Down workshop was way 469 00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:23,440 Speaker 2: worse than anything in Optavia because in Way Down, the 470 00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:30,080 Speaker 2: participants were encouraged to identify specific moments of sin, which 471 00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:34,719 Speaker 2: was defined as eating outside of true physical hunger, and 472 00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:37,800 Speaker 2: then bring them to the group and to God, and 473 00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:41,320 Speaker 2: the language around repentance was very direct and very intentional. 474 00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:44,680 Speaker 2: Here's though I have a problem with that, Like from 475 00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:47,160 Speaker 2: some of the testimonies of people who have been involved 476 00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:51,120 Speaker 2: in the program, you know, it's really difficult to say 477 00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:55,880 Speaker 2: that these women were eating outside of physical hunger because 478 00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:59,400 Speaker 2: many of them were so so restricted and they would 479 00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:02,400 Speaker 2: have had all the mental complications you have with an 480 00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:05,000 Speaker 2: eating disorder, where listening to your hunger and fullness ques 481 00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:08,280 Speaker 2: would be very confusing. Like, for none of that is 482 00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:16,920 Speaker 2: actual sin. Sinning is breaking God's law. God made your 483 00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:21,560 Speaker 2: body to run on food, so eating is not sinning. 484 00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:25,000 Speaker 2: And you're gonna say, but what about gluttony. Well, first 485 00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:28,120 Speaker 2: of all, right, so many of the women I talk 486 00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:31,080 Speaker 2: to are so worried about gluttony, and they define gluttony 487 00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:38,840 Speaker 2: as eating three extra almonds or eating three extra cookies. Right, friend, 488 00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:45,200 Speaker 2: gluttony is about a heart posture of greed and just 489 00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:50,480 Speaker 2: living to eat and partying and sensual and I just 490 00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:54,960 Speaker 2: want food and to feel good and to feel things 491 00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:56,960 Speaker 2: and to just indulge. 492 00:31:57,000 --> 00:31:58,480 Speaker 1: I want that more than anything. 493 00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:04,880 Speaker 2: That's not the same as sitting down at a meal 494 00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:08,800 Speaker 2: when you've had a stressful, busy day, woofing it down 495 00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:12,000 Speaker 2: and then later realizing, oh, I think I ate too much. 496 00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:15,800 Speaker 2: I didn't need all that. That's not the same, friend, 497 00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:19,640 Speaker 2: That's not a sin. I've done other episodes on that, 498 00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:22,120 Speaker 2: so I'm not going to belabor that right now. But 499 00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:25,680 Speaker 2: again with Way Down workshop testimony was central. This was 500 00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:29,520 Speaker 2: evidence of God's work here before and after pictures were 501 00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:32,720 Speaker 2: theological documents. They were proof that if you surrender this 502 00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:36,840 Speaker 2: to God, it'll produce a physical transformation. And what that 503 00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:39,960 Speaker 2: created was a troubling implication. If you were losing weight, 504 00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:42,840 Speaker 2: God was at work in you. If you were not 505 00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:47,840 Speaker 2: losing weight, if you were plateauing, gaining, or struggling, then 506 00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:52,760 Speaker 2: we question your spiritual state. Oh friends, so dangerous, so yicky, 507 00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:56,880 Speaker 2: But that's the way it worked. If you were getting 508 00:32:56,920 --> 00:33:02,120 Speaker 2: a little chubby, then Gwen's correlation was that God was 509 00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:04,600 Speaker 2: not working in you. You had some serious in issues. 510 00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:08,800 Speaker 2: And this is the law its most crushing your body 511 00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:11,960 Speaker 2: in the way down. Workshop became a readout of your soul, 512 00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:16,920 Speaker 2: and a thinner body was visible sanctification. A heavier body 513 00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:22,000 Speaker 2: was visible spiritual failure. The external became an index of 514 00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:25,840 Speaker 2: the internal in a way that was almost impossible to 515 00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:29,520 Speaker 2: live with. And friend, my heart breaks for women that 516 00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:32,200 Speaker 2: were part of this, and we're judged and assessed this way. 517 00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:35,960 Speaker 2: We just know that's not true. That's not the way 518 00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:40,080 Speaker 2: bodies work. According to lots of studies, if you do 519 00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:44,920 Speaker 2: lose weight intentionally by restricting calories, in ninety five percent 520 00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:46,680 Speaker 2: of the cases, that weight is going to come back 521 00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:47,840 Speaker 2: on within five years. 522 00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:50,800 Speaker 1: That is physiological. That is not spiritual. 523 00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:55,440 Speaker 2: But Gwen took it too far. She nineteen ninety nine 524 00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:58,840 Speaker 2: founded a church because she believed the mainstream church had 525 00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:01,800 Speaker 2: failed to teach proper submission to God in the area 526 00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:05,840 Speaker 2: of eating and body, so her diet workshop became an 527 00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:08,680 Speaker 2: actual church and it is straight up as a cult. Friend, 528 00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:13,160 Speaker 2: there's no confusion around that. You can watch those documentaries, 529 00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:16,319 Speaker 2: read newspaper articles, you can you can find all the 530 00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:20,160 Speaker 2: evidence you need to classify that as a cult. I 531 00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:25,000 Speaker 2: believe Gwen said that, I can't remember what verse it was, 532 00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:29,279 Speaker 2: but she didn't need Jesus because like God could just 533 00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:32,000 Speaker 2: talk right to her and so that made Jesus unnecessary 534 00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:35,040 Speaker 2: or something like that. But some dangerous, scary things that 535 00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:39,400 Speaker 2: she said in and around the founding of this church 536 00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:44,759 Speaker 2: should give everyone cause to pause. But as we're closer today, 537 00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:47,640 Speaker 2: here's what I want you to see. If you build 538 00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:52,440 Speaker 2: your life, if you build your total theology around body 539 00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:56,239 Speaker 2: and food and the way you eat, it's not going 540 00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:59,439 Speaker 2: to stay contained to the dinner table, right, It's going 541 00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:03,080 Speaker 2: to pour it and everything in some way, shape or form. 542 00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:07,399 Speaker 2: And that's what happened for Shamblin, right. That's why the 543 00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:12,719 Speaker 2: control over food, embody, and appetite started to spill over 544 00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:17,040 Speaker 2: into controlling personal decisions and relationships and family life of 545 00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:20,920 Speaker 2: people in the church. And that's where it gets really scary. 546 00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:24,440 Speaker 2: Here's where I want us to land Optavi and Shamblin. 547 00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:27,080 Speaker 2: They represent two ends of a spectrum, but they share 548 00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:32,040 Speaker 2: the same basic skeleton. As you start with the diagnosis 549 00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:35,600 Speaker 2: of your fallen you're in a suboptimal state, and there's 550 00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:39,720 Speaker 2: a path of transformation through discipline and submission to the plan. 551 00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:44,440 Speaker 2: And then there's a mediating authority you're Optavia Coach or 552 00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:49,000 Speaker 2: Gwen herself. And then there's a community of accountability and encouragement. 553 00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:52,440 Speaker 2: And then there's this vision of the redeemed self Optavia. 554 00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:56,000 Speaker 2: We call it your optimal self right when would say 555 00:35:56,080 --> 00:36:01,880 Speaker 2: it's surrendered to God. And then there's the body. In 556 00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:05,000 Speaker 2: each of these situations, the body is your visible measure 557 00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:10,680 Speaker 2: of how your inside has transformed. But what does scripture say. 558 00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:13,880 Speaker 2: Scripture says God doesn't look at the body, he looks 559 00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:17,560 Speaker 2: at the heart. Like, there's no biblical evidence that your 560 00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:23,279 Speaker 2: body is the visible measure of interior transformation. That's just 561 00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:28,000 Speaker 2: not true. And I mean there's a difference. Optavia's religious 562 00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:33,120 Speaker 2: architecture is borrowed unconsciously, I think from the culture, whereas 563 00:36:33,239 --> 00:36:37,440 Speaker 2: Chamblain like deployed it intentionally and took theology and twisted it. 564 00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:42,160 Speaker 2: But the experience of someone who's inside either system is 565 00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:47,000 Speaker 2: probably pretty similar. Your body becomes a moral project, your 566 00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:51,640 Speaker 2: eating is a spiritual practice, and your progress is subject 567 00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:58,000 Speaker 2: to communal judgment. If you want to be saved, you 568 00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:03,799 Speaker 2: better do it right. Yikes, And they all try to 569 00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:07,160 Speaker 2: answer the same human need right. We want to be right, 570 00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:10,640 Speaker 2: we want to be good, we want to be enough, 571 00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:14,880 Speaker 2: and the need is real and legitimate. But it's not 572 00:37:15,239 --> 00:37:21,080 Speaker 2: answered through losing weight or eating a certain way. It's 573 00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:24,080 Speaker 2: answered through the transforming. 574 00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:25,440 Speaker 1: Work of Jesus Christ. 575 00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:32,200 Speaker 2: He is my righteousness, he is my justification. He alone 576 00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:38,160 Speaker 2: makes me right before God makes me good enough to 577 00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:41,040 Speaker 2: be restored in right relationship with God. It's not how 578 00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:47,400 Speaker 2: I eat. These plans offer us an alternative religion, an 579 00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:53,120 Speaker 2: alternative path to transformation, an alternative to what the Gospel 580 00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:58,799 Speaker 2: so clearly offers us for free. But they're selling it so. 581 00:37:58,920 --> 00:37:59,240 Speaker 1: Friend. 582 00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:03,040 Speaker 2: Oh, I know this has been super heavy, but I 583 00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:05,600 Speaker 2: hope more than anything, I've just got you thinking. That's 584 00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:08,080 Speaker 2: my goal, just to get to thinking, to get you 585 00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:11,000 Speaker 2: spin in. And if you're spinning too much, I hope 586 00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:13,200 Speaker 2: you'll join us on the next forty day journey. You 587 00:38:13,239 --> 00:38:15,560 Speaker 2: can read about some of these concepts in My forty 588 00:38:15,640 --> 00:38:19,360 Speaker 2: Day Body Image work Book. It's available everywhere books are sold. 589 00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:24,399 Speaker 2: But we love coaching and encouraging women. Even if you're 590 00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:26,759 Speaker 2: just coming out of Optavia or maybe coming out of 591 00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:29,480 Speaker 2: the Way Down Workshop, we want to encourage you that 592 00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:33,160 Speaker 2: there is a way to treat your body well, to 593 00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:38,839 Speaker 2: steward your body well without falling into the religion of 594 00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:40,640 Speaker 2: dieting and diet culture. 595 00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:42,919 Speaker 1: And really the shame. 596 00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:46,960 Speaker 2: And the guilt and the tortuous thoughts that come with 597 00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:49,680 Speaker 2: all of that do not have to be part of 598 00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:53,000 Speaker 2: your life because you are saved and readeemed by Jesus Christ. Hey, 599 00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:55,960 Speaker 2: thanks for listening today. Next time, Oh friend, it's gonna good. 600 00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:59,400 Speaker 2: We're leaving diets, we're leaving food, and we're going to 601 00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:02,360 Speaker 2: enter the and we're going to ask a very strange question, 602 00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:05,359 Speaker 2: but it's why do we expect our clothes to forgive us? 603 00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:08,480 Speaker 2: And what does God say about it? Why have we 604 00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:12,239 Speaker 2: started talking about fabric in the way we used to 605 00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:14,040 Speaker 2: only talk about God. That's where we going Next time, 606 00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:15,640 Speaker 2: I help you join us. Thanks for listening today. I 607 00:39:15,680 --> 00:39:18,680 Speaker 2: hope something today has helped you stop comparing and start living. 608 00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:19,480 Speaker 1: Bye bye bye. 609 00:39:20,120 --> 00:39:22,040 Speaker 2: They Compared You podcast is probably part of the Life 610 00:39:22,080 --> 00:39:24,600 Speaker 2: Audio Podcast Network from our great Christian podcasts. 611 00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:29,840 Speaker 1: Go to life audio dot com.