1 00:00:02,600 --> 00:00:03,440 Speaker 1: Life Audio. 2 00:00:03,760 --> 00:00:06,440 Speaker 2: Build Different is a production of the American Association of 3 00:00:06,559 --> 00:00:09,440 Speaker 2: Christian Counselors. To support this podcast and learn how you 4 00:00:09,440 --> 00:00:11,959 Speaker 2: can help us to promote all our biblical content, spread 5 00:00:11,960 --> 00:00:14,680 Speaker 2: the Gospel, and provide mental health resources and training to 6 00:00:14,760 --> 00:00:19,720 Speaker 2: people everywhere, just go to aaccfoundation dot org. Again, that's 7 00:00:19,800 --> 00:00:27,880 Speaker 2: Aaccfoundation dot org. Welcome to Built Different. I'm Zach Clinton, 8 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:30,160 Speaker 2: your host, and each week I come to you exclusively 9 00:00:30,280 --> 00:00:32,240 Speaker 2: on the Life Audio podcast Network. 10 00:00:32,280 --> 00:00:33,640 Speaker 3: I'm proud to partner with Life. 11 00:00:33,479 --> 00:00:37,280 Speaker 2: Audio and bring you entertaining, life changing, family friendly podcasts 12 00:00:37,320 --> 00:00:38,239 Speaker 2: for a new generation. 13 00:00:38,479 --> 00:00:39,080 Speaker 3: I Built Different. 14 00:00:39,080 --> 00:00:41,800 Speaker 2: Our mission is to provide encouragement, hope, and challenge to 15 00:00:41,840 --> 00:00:43,519 Speaker 2: help push you past your limits and. 16 00:00:43,520 --> 00:00:45,280 Speaker 3: Reach goals you never thought possible. 17 00:00:45,400 --> 00:00:47,960 Speaker 2: Colossians two, verse six says, So, then, just as you 18 00:00:48,040 --> 00:00:51,280 Speaker 2: received Christ Jesus's Lord, continue to live your lives in him, 19 00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:53,200 Speaker 2: rooted and built up in him. 20 00:00:53,360 --> 00:00:56,640 Speaker 3: Amen. Now let's roll. 21 00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:04,360 Speaker 2: Hello everybody, and welcome back into the Built Different Podcasts, 22 00:01:04,400 --> 00:01:07,560 Speaker 2: the show for people who refuse to live on autopilot 23 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:11,080 Speaker 2: and settle for average. Today's conversation is about something every 24 00:01:11,080 --> 00:01:13,160 Speaker 2: single one of us wrestles with at some point in 25 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:16,680 Speaker 2: our lives. It's our work, why it matters, why it 26 00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:20,000 Speaker 2: drains us sometimes, and why when it's aligned, it can 27 00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:23,000 Speaker 2: actually become one of the most meaningful expressions of who 28 00:01:23,120 --> 00:01:26,240 Speaker 2: God created us to be. You see, Scripture tells us 29 00:01:26,280 --> 00:01:29,520 Speaker 2: in Proverbs chapter twelve, verse twenty seven that diligence is 30 00:01:29,560 --> 00:01:33,160 Speaker 2: a man's precious possession. In other words, anything of real 31 00:01:33,240 --> 00:01:35,880 Speaker 2: value in this life is going to cost you something. 32 00:01:36,440 --> 00:01:39,280 Speaker 2: My guest today has spent years helping people rediscover purpose 33 00:01:39,319 --> 00:01:42,200 Speaker 2: in their work, move from paycheck to purpose, and stop 34 00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:44,880 Speaker 2: drifting through careers that don't fit who they're wired to be. 35 00:01:45,319 --> 00:01:47,360 Speaker 2: He's a national radio host, serving as host of The 36 00:01:47,360 --> 00:01:49,760 Speaker 2: front Row Seat podcast and frequent co host of The 37 00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:52,440 Speaker 2: Ramsey Show. He's a best selling author of books such 38 00:01:52,480 --> 00:01:55,640 Speaker 2: as The Proximity Principle and his most recent, Finding The 39 00:01:55,680 --> 00:01:57,800 Speaker 2: Work You Were Wired to Do At the End of 40 00:01:57,840 --> 00:02:00,160 Speaker 2: the Day. He's one of the leading voices on calling 41 00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:04,120 Speaker 2: clarity and career. Ken Coleman from Ramsey Solutions is with 42 00:02:04,200 --> 00:02:08,160 Speaker 2: us today and this is a conversation about meaning, resilience, leadership, burnout, 43 00:02:08,400 --> 00:02:11,239 Speaker 2: and doing the work you were actually made to do. Ken, 44 00:02:11,320 --> 00:02:13,799 Speaker 2: my friend, welcome to build different. Thank you so much 45 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:14,600 Speaker 2: for joining me today. 46 00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:16,480 Speaker 1: Glad to be with you. Thanks for having me. 47 00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:19,120 Speaker 2: You know, Ken, as I mentioned before I clicked record, 48 00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:23,600 Speaker 2: My dad, doctor Tim Clinton, is just grateful for you, your 49 00:02:22,919 --> 00:02:26,160 Speaker 2: voice on leadership, your voice on meaning and purpose, especially 50 00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:29,360 Speaker 2: within the workplace. He sends his regards, but the Clinton 51 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:30,840 Speaker 2: family has a lot of love in our heart for 52 00:02:30,880 --> 00:02:33,640 Speaker 2: the Coleman family. Let me say this upfront, you have 53 00:02:33,760 --> 00:02:36,519 Speaker 2: had a front row seat to some very special people. 54 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:39,760 Speaker 2: God is doing something special through your life, your leadership 55 00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:43,240 Speaker 2: at Ramsey Solutions, through the Front Row Seat podcast and more. Ken, 56 00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:45,040 Speaker 2: I'd like to hear upfront, just what is it that 57 00:02:45,120 --> 00:02:47,959 Speaker 2: really excites you and what makes you tick for such 58 00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:48,600 Speaker 2: a time as this. 59 00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:50,760 Speaker 1: Well, I think a lot of things excite me, but 60 00:02:50,919 --> 00:02:55,440 Speaker 1: you know, I think in the workspace, you know, outside 61 00:02:55,440 --> 00:02:59,720 Speaker 1: of family relationships and things of that nature. I love 62 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:07,120 Speaker 1: helping people awaken to the awareness that they deserve to have. 63 00:03:07,440 --> 00:03:11,480 Speaker 1: You know, we have so many mixed messages that come 64 00:03:11,520 --> 00:03:15,160 Speaker 1: our way through the evil one. And when someone can 65 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:21,680 Speaker 1: see how they're uniquely wired that they are, it's truly 66 00:03:21,760 --> 00:03:25,040 Speaker 1: unique that they have not only a unique makeup, but 67 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:27,800 Speaker 1: a unique purpose, and they begin to realize that and 68 00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:31,480 Speaker 1: see themselves as God the Father sees them. And that's 69 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:33,680 Speaker 1: the way I see my work as being somebody who's 70 00:03:33,720 --> 00:03:36,360 Speaker 1: just an illuminator, you know, maybe turning the mirror around 71 00:03:36,400 --> 00:03:39,280 Speaker 1: and letting them see themselves. That to me is the 72 00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:41,400 Speaker 1: most exciting work that I get to do. It's really 73 00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:44,720 Speaker 1: the work of a coach to just help people see 74 00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:49,760 Speaker 1: through asking deep questions of others or of those folks, 75 00:03:49,800 --> 00:03:53,640 Speaker 1: and when the light goes on, that light bulb of 76 00:03:54,080 --> 00:03:57,280 Speaker 1: just true awareness, it's a beautiful thing to see. 77 00:03:58,040 --> 00:03:58,960 Speaker 3: It's a beautiful thing. 78 00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:01,720 Speaker 2: Ken As I mentioned, and your leading voice on calling 79 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:05,080 Speaker 2: clarity and career, a lot of your conversations try to 80 00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:07,520 Speaker 2: get the most out of people, Like you said, helping 81 00:04:07,560 --> 00:04:11,960 Speaker 2: them experience greatness. A biblical definition for greatness is experiencing 82 00:04:12,080 --> 00:04:15,040 Speaker 2: all that God has prepared for them. You've had the 83 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:17,840 Speaker 2: opportunity of literally sitting in the front row, such a 84 00:04:17,839 --> 00:04:20,359 Speaker 2: cool format, by the way, in your podcast, having people 85 00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:23,159 Speaker 2: right behind you and taking notes and all these different things. 86 00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:24,479 Speaker 3: I'd love to hear up front. 87 00:04:24,520 --> 00:04:28,360 Speaker 2: Any interesting lessons that you've learned as of recent even 88 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:30,840 Speaker 2: from your show as you're taking notes, just gleaning from 89 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:32,680 Speaker 2: the wealth of wisdom of the guests that you have 90 00:04:32,760 --> 00:04:34,599 Speaker 2: on Oh you. 91 00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:37,000 Speaker 1: Know, I mean every episode I closed the episode with, 92 00:04:37,120 --> 00:04:40,560 Speaker 1: you know, a very specific takeaway. So you know, if 93 00:04:40,560 --> 00:04:43,760 Speaker 1: I were to look at every episode, you know, without 94 00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:46,559 Speaker 1: notes in front of me, you know, there's so many 95 00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:50,560 Speaker 1: takeaways I think. You know, one of the most recent 96 00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:53,960 Speaker 1: ones that really stood out to me Jesse Cole, who 97 00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:56,880 Speaker 1: is the founder of Banana Ball, the Savannah Bananas. You know, 98 00:04:57,120 --> 00:05:01,000 Speaker 1: a lot of people tend to maybe margin him because 99 00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:05,680 Speaker 1: of the bright yellow outfit, but you know, he he 100 00:05:05,760 --> 00:05:10,880 Speaker 1: said marketing doesn't replace attention, and you know, he's a 101 00:05:10,920 --> 00:05:13,760 Speaker 1: great attention grabber from everything that they do. They have 102 00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:16,800 Speaker 1: such a unique product and it's exploding in the marketplace, 103 00:05:17,720 --> 00:05:19,800 Speaker 1: and so I think that was something that was very 104 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:22,000 Speaker 1: interesting to me from a from a variety of ways. 105 00:05:22,040 --> 00:05:25,000 Speaker 1: I don't always take everything that I hear in the 106 00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:29,279 Speaker 1: business context and just leave it there. Many times I'll 107 00:05:29,279 --> 00:05:34,080 Speaker 1: put it into a personal context, and I think attention, 108 00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:38,719 Speaker 1: you know, to the right messages, attention to the right actions. 109 00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:41,680 Speaker 1: You know, that was something that really stuck with me 110 00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:46,120 Speaker 1: as as a really broad but also deep application. That's 111 00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:49,640 Speaker 1: just one example. You know, We've got so many shows 112 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:51,640 Speaker 1: that we've just done recently that are in the can 113 00:05:51,839 --> 00:05:53,760 Speaker 1: that have yet to come out, so I don't want 114 00:05:53,760 --> 00:05:59,080 Speaker 1: to spoil any of those. You know, Jimmy John, the 115 00:05:59,080 --> 00:06:02,840 Speaker 1: founder of Jimmy John Sandwiches chain, you know, he's now 116 00:06:02,839 --> 00:06:07,800 Speaker 1: a billionaire. You know, he said something so simple whenever 117 00:06:07,920 --> 00:06:11,640 Speaker 1: other people say it, but he crystallized it, you know, 118 00:06:11,720 --> 00:06:14,919 Speaker 1: talking about leaders need to manage, manage, manage, you know, 119 00:06:15,160 --> 00:06:18,960 Speaker 1: and that you are truly in the business, hands on, 120 00:06:19,320 --> 00:06:22,520 Speaker 1: aware of what's going on. You know, that kind of 121 00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:27,000 Speaker 1: hands on leadership really is the difference maker in any organization, 122 00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:30,560 Speaker 1: whether it be a for profit or nonprofit. So two examples. 123 00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:35,000 Speaker 1: But yeah, I am learning alongside the audience, which is why. 124 00:06:35,279 --> 00:06:38,320 Speaker 1: You know, if you were to see the interviews as 125 00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:40,680 Speaker 1: they're laid out in front of me versus how they 126 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:43,960 Speaker 1: end up, many times they look very very different because 127 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:46,320 Speaker 1: I am allowing myself to be present in the moment 128 00:06:46,880 --> 00:06:49,440 Speaker 1: and make sure that I'm always taking the posture of 129 00:06:49,560 --> 00:06:51,480 Speaker 1: student on behalf of the audience. 130 00:06:52,400 --> 00:06:54,400 Speaker 2: Well, I love the approach that you bring to it. Again, 131 00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:56,479 Speaker 2: I'm a big fan of the front Row Seat podcast, 132 00:06:56,520 --> 00:06:58,120 Speaker 2: so thank you for the way that you do that. 133 00:06:59,240 --> 00:07:01,160 Speaker 2: Just even those less that you just shared with us 134 00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:04,440 Speaker 2: right there about this idea of culture being shared belief. 135 00:07:04,560 --> 00:07:08,400 Speaker 2: But then also this idea of never expect from people 136 00:07:08,440 --> 00:07:11,480 Speaker 2: that which you are unwilling to inspect. Be in the 137 00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:15,440 Speaker 2: managerial position, the nitty gritty aspects of life. You know, Ken, 138 00:07:15,520 --> 00:07:17,960 Speaker 2: when I think of work here for a second, because 139 00:07:17,960 --> 00:07:19,840 Speaker 2: that's kind of the premise of our conversation that we're 140 00:07:19,840 --> 00:07:23,280 Speaker 2: going to have today. Work serves a great purpose, especially 141 00:07:23,280 --> 00:07:26,600 Speaker 2: in the Kingdom of God. Proverbs chapter twelve, verse twenty 142 00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:31,000 Speaker 2: seven actually says that diligence is the precious kind of 143 00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:34,880 Speaker 2: golden let's just say, nugget of wisdom for those wise 144 00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:36,880 Speaker 2: men like it's the one thing that we can hold 145 00:07:36,920 --> 00:07:38,680 Speaker 2: on to. Work is really important, and some of the 146 00:07:38,760 --> 00:07:43,040 Speaker 2: human flourishing research Tyler vanderwil out of Harvard, Harold Koheneg 147 00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:45,480 Speaker 2: out of Duke, Byron Johnson out of Baylor, they've found 148 00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:50,120 Speaker 2: that a pathway to human flourishing. There's four of them. Faith, family, education, 149 00:07:50,400 --> 00:07:53,000 Speaker 2: and work. There's a reason as to why we work. 150 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:55,440 Speaker 2: I'd love to hear from you just the man, especially 151 00:07:55,480 --> 00:07:57,960 Speaker 2: at Ramsey Solutions, that might not be the money guy, 152 00:07:58,280 --> 00:08:00,520 Speaker 2: but a guy that helps us understand that money and 153 00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:03,240 Speaker 2: work they coincide. You can't have a conversation about one 154 00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:05,600 Speaker 2: without the other. Talk to us about why do you 155 00:08:05,680 --> 00:08:09,400 Speaker 2: think God made work such an important thing for man 156 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:10,040 Speaker 2: to do. 157 00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:14,920 Speaker 1: Because he worked, you know, the creator of the universe. 158 00:08:14,960 --> 00:08:20,920 Speaker 1: It's documented that he worked in six days to create 159 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:24,320 Speaker 1: the world, and on the seventh day he rested. And 160 00:08:24,400 --> 00:08:27,400 Speaker 1: I think it's funny that sometimes we overlook the fact 161 00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:31,760 Speaker 1: that the almighty, you know, all powerful God himself rested 162 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:35,160 Speaker 1: because he worked hard. And even after the fall, so 163 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:38,600 Speaker 1: we see before the fall, God worked himself. So our 164 00:08:38,720 --> 00:08:43,880 Speaker 1: creator created, creation is work. So we see that model 165 00:08:44,440 --> 00:08:46,959 Speaker 1: right out of the gates. Then even after Adam and 166 00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:50,600 Speaker 1: Eve sin, he still says to them, go and subdue 167 00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:54,439 Speaker 1: the earth, right and in some translations, subdue is create, 168 00:08:54,600 --> 00:08:59,360 Speaker 1: go create, So go create a population, right, you know, 169 00:08:59,480 --> 00:09:04,360 Speaker 1: so go go create, go create. And so it's just 170 00:09:04,640 --> 00:09:08,360 Speaker 1: it's evident in Genesis one and Genesis two. If we're 171 00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:11,840 Speaker 1: made in the likeness of God, which we are at 172 00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:15,640 Speaker 1: Mago day, then we are essentially created to work. It's 173 00:09:15,679 --> 00:09:18,960 Speaker 1: why we long to make things, to do things, to 174 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:22,160 Speaker 1: make a difference. So it's in our spirit and so 175 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:27,720 Speaker 1: you can't deny that. So when someone finds that work 176 00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:29,920 Speaker 1: for the first time, that they really are good at 177 00:09:30,040 --> 00:09:32,640 Speaker 1: and that they really enjoy that creates a result that 178 00:09:32,679 --> 00:09:37,559 Speaker 1: they care deeply about. Then that is where you experience 179 00:09:37,760 --> 00:09:42,679 Speaker 1: a form of euphoria. And to me, that is spiritual alignment. 180 00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:47,280 Speaker 1: It is a soul craving that was given to us 181 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:48,240 Speaker 1: by our creator. 182 00:09:49,880 --> 00:09:51,600 Speaker 2: You know, can talk to us a little bit because 183 00:09:51,640 --> 00:09:55,080 Speaker 2: we understand that work matters, and such a beautiful and 184 00:09:55,120 --> 00:09:56,920 Speaker 2: eloquent answer that you just gave us. But at the 185 00:09:56,960 --> 00:09:59,520 Speaker 2: same time, finding the right work, as you would like 186 00:09:59,559 --> 00:10:01,840 Speaker 2: to say, finding the work that you were wired to 187 00:10:01,920 --> 00:10:04,679 Speaker 2: do matters as well. You know, I'm just thinking about 188 00:10:04,720 --> 00:10:07,160 Speaker 2: you and your story. I did my research on you. 189 00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:09,520 Speaker 2: You know, you really weren't supposed to be here at 190 00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:12,120 Speaker 2: Ramsey Solutions, right. I know that there was a political 191 00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:14,400 Speaker 2: opportunity that was kind of the segue that you were 192 00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:17,160 Speaker 2: going toward. But then all of a sudden, as God 193 00:10:17,360 --> 00:10:20,760 Speaker 2: so divinely does, he redirected your steps and you had 194 00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:22,839 Speaker 2: to take a leap of faith to say, you know what, 195 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:25,480 Speaker 2: I'm going to give up on one dream to pick 196 00:10:25,559 --> 00:10:28,200 Speaker 2: up another God ordained one. Share with us a little 197 00:10:28,200 --> 00:10:29,640 Speaker 2: bit about your story if you would. 198 00:10:29,880 --> 00:10:32,679 Speaker 1: Well, I just thought at the age of sixteen that 199 00:10:32,920 --> 00:10:36,760 Speaker 1: my future was going to be in politics, and felt 200 00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:41,400 Speaker 1: that calling and honored that and pursued it, and was 201 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:44,080 Speaker 1: working for the Governor of Virginia at twenty two and 202 00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:47,280 Speaker 1: had a pretty bright political future ahead of me, certainly 203 00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:50,800 Speaker 1: in the campaign side of things and in the governance 204 00:10:50,960 --> 00:10:54,720 Speaker 1: side of things. Had I wanted that, and yet I 205 00:10:54,720 --> 00:10:56,480 Speaker 1: felt like I was going to run for office, and 206 00:10:56,520 --> 00:10:59,600 Speaker 1: so I wanted to get out and get a business background, 207 00:10:59,720 --> 00:11:02,800 Speaker 1: have some real life leadership, you know, where you're creating jobs. 208 00:11:02,840 --> 00:11:05,000 Speaker 1: And that was the script. So I played the script 209 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:08,920 Speaker 1: out until my heart changed through a series of you know, 210 00:11:09,080 --> 00:11:13,000 Speaker 1: just really disappointing moves by leadership that I thought, this is, 211 00:11:13,040 --> 00:11:16,320 Speaker 1: this is maybe not the place where the influence really 212 00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:19,520 Speaker 1: can be had. And as I begin to question that 213 00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:24,840 Speaker 1: part of society where I would do work, I begin 214 00:11:24,920 --> 00:11:28,680 Speaker 1: to question the overall role. And that was a very 215 00:11:28,679 --> 00:11:33,079 Speaker 1: confusing time for me. But as God directed me and 216 00:11:33,160 --> 00:11:36,440 Speaker 1: my heart away from one path towards the path that 217 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:38,640 Speaker 1: I'm on now, I can now look back and see 218 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:42,800 Speaker 1: that the political work that I did was certainly training 219 00:11:43,160 --> 00:11:45,880 Speaker 1: for what I do now, and I think that the 220 00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:48,320 Speaker 1: area I'm in now is far more influential than the 221 00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:51,840 Speaker 1: political space. So I'm grateful for that. I still, you know, 222 00:11:51,840 --> 00:11:55,080 Speaker 1: I'm a political animal, and I can't say I enjoy 223 00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:59,200 Speaker 1: watching it anymore because it's become so toxic on both 224 00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:02,000 Speaker 1: sides of the aisle. I think there's such a lack 225 00:12:02,040 --> 00:12:04,240 Speaker 1: of leadership on both sides of the aisle. So I'll 226 00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:09,720 Speaker 1: offend everybody right now. And I don't see that we 227 00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:12,960 Speaker 1: have true statesmen, and I don't see that there's a 228 00:12:12,960 --> 00:12:17,400 Speaker 1: true desire to do what our founding fathers intended for 229 00:12:17,679 --> 00:12:19,440 Speaker 1: politicians to do, which is that it would be a 230 00:12:19,480 --> 00:12:22,840 Speaker 1: part time role and not one that makes you wealthy, 231 00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:26,000 Speaker 1: but one that is certainly worthy. But that we've lost 232 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:30,080 Speaker 1: sight of that. And so God confirmed all of those 233 00:12:30,280 --> 00:12:34,000 Speaker 1: initial feelings, and so very happy that I'm in the 234 00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:36,800 Speaker 1: place that I'm in. But you know, I, while I 235 00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:41,560 Speaker 1: would not have designed it the way it happened, it's 236 00:12:41,600 --> 00:12:43,640 Speaker 1: not something I thought of as a sixteen year old. 237 00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:46,480 Speaker 1: The parallels are there because I wanted to run for office. 238 00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:50,480 Speaker 1: I wanted to create policy on behalf of people. I 239 00:12:50,520 --> 00:12:55,240 Speaker 1: wanted to speak, you know, for freedom and individual liberty 240 00:12:55,280 --> 00:12:57,840 Speaker 1: on behalf of people, all those things, and I still do, 241 00:12:58,280 --> 00:13:00,440 Speaker 1: just not in a political context. I'm going to. 242 00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:02,680 Speaker 2: Stop this right there and jump into say you're listening 243 00:13:02,760 --> 00:13:05,360 Speaker 2: to Build Different, I'm Zach Clinton. We need to break 244 00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:08,000 Speaker 2: for a brief message from our sponsors. I'll be back 245 00:13:08,040 --> 00:13:10,680 Speaker 2: with our guests to keep the conversation flowing. Right after this. 246 00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:17,640 Speaker 2: You're listening to life audio God, right, He so brilliantly 247 00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:20,480 Speaker 2: orchestrates our steps, and He really does have that plan 248 00:13:20,559 --> 00:13:22,760 Speaker 2: and that purpose for our lives if we continue to 249 00:13:22,760 --> 00:13:25,680 Speaker 2: put our trust in soul reliance on him. You know, 250 00:13:25,760 --> 00:13:28,600 Speaker 2: ken As, I'm just thinking about somebody out there that 251 00:13:28,679 --> 00:13:31,600 Speaker 2: might be listening to the show today and they might 252 00:13:31,640 --> 00:13:34,160 Speaker 2: be showing up at work and you know what, They're 253 00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:37,600 Speaker 2: just punching a clock. It's not really something that makes 254 00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:41,040 Speaker 2: them tick. It's not really something they're passionate about. But 255 00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:44,640 Speaker 2: at the same time, it's work. It's putting food on 256 00:13:44,640 --> 00:13:47,360 Speaker 2: the table, it's helping support different things. At one point, 257 00:13:47,400 --> 00:13:50,000 Speaker 2: maybe they found a vision or some passion in what 258 00:13:50,040 --> 00:13:53,000 Speaker 2: they were doing, but for some reason, there's been this 259 00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:55,960 Speaker 2: time now where they're unsure of if this is the 260 00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:57,840 Speaker 2: path that God has called them to. And I will 261 00:13:57,840 --> 00:14:00,680 Speaker 2: say this, I think there's a big difference between comfort 262 00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:04,559 Speaker 2: and calling for some people, it might be an uncomfortable season, 263 00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:07,040 Speaker 2: it might be a difficult year, it might be a 264 00:14:07,040 --> 00:14:10,120 Speaker 2: difficult month. But that doesn't mean that maybe they're being 265 00:14:10,120 --> 00:14:12,920 Speaker 2: called away. For others, it might mean that God is 266 00:14:12,960 --> 00:14:16,240 Speaker 2: truly calling them elsewhere. I'd love to hear from you, sir. 267 00:14:16,920 --> 00:14:20,040 Speaker 2: How do we decipher the difference between comfort and calling? 268 00:14:22,920 --> 00:14:28,800 Speaker 1: Well, calling is missional. Comfort is emotional. So that's the 269 00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:31,080 Speaker 1: one that sticks out to me. I don't know that 270 00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:34,240 Speaker 1: they could be any more different, because when I'm called 271 00:14:34,280 --> 00:14:39,680 Speaker 1: to something, it's like my children. If we were walking 272 00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:43,560 Speaker 1: in a state park or something, or a United States 273 00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:45,920 Speaker 1: park and there's a trail and one of the kids 274 00:14:45,960 --> 00:14:48,120 Speaker 1: gets out of my eyesight for a moment, I can't 275 00:14:48,160 --> 00:14:50,520 Speaker 1: see them. I know they haven't gone far, but as 276 00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:52,600 Speaker 1: a parent, I'm a little concerned, and I hear them 277 00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:57,000 Speaker 1: call my name, daddy, daddy or whatever, and then in 278 00:14:57,080 --> 00:15:00,760 Speaker 1: that moment, you know, there's only one thing on my mind, 279 00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:04,280 Speaker 1: and that is answering the call of my scared and 280 00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:08,360 Speaker 1: lost child. That's just one example. But the calling, as 281 00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:12,760 Speaker 1: we refer to it, is where God is saying, uh, 282 00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:16,320 Speaker 1: come here. I've I'm working over here, and I want 283 00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:18,920 Speaker 1: you over here. And this is what I'm calling you 284 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:23,960 Speaker 1: to do. I think of the Old Testament when when 285 00:15:24,080 --> 00:15:26,640 Speaker 1: Samuel wakes up multiple times at night and he keeps 286 00:15:26,680 --> 00:15:29,200 Speaker 1: going to Eli, I believe it was the High Priest, 287 00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:32,520 Speaker 1: and and uh and and finally Eli realizes what it 288 00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:34,320 Speaker 1: is is the next time, the third time that God 289 00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:38,200 Speaker 1: calls a speak Lord, thy servant hereth I think of that. 290 00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:44,040 Speaker 1: So the calling we are responding to to God, and 291 00:15:44,040 --> 00:15:48,840 Speaker 1: and so it's a much higher request and and and 292 00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:53,200 Speaker 1: and so it's you are called to something. Comfort is 293 00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:56,720 Speaker 1: an emotion, And as how I would describe it. If 294 00:15:56,800 --> 00:16:00,200 Speaker 1: I'm comfortable, I would describe that as an emotion. And 295 00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:02,880 Speaker 1: so I don't know that you will ever be comfortable 296 00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:06,560 Speaker 1: while pursuing a calling. I don't know that that exists. 297 00:16:07,080 --> 00:16:10,200 Speaker 1: Maybe temporarily if you got a really nice mattress, but 298 00:16:10,360 --> 00:16:13,680 Speaker 1: when you are awake, you should not be comfortable. 299 00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:16,160 Speaker 3: That's a deep word. 300 00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:16,960 Speaker 1: I really like that. 301 00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:21,640 Speaker 2: The idea that comfort is emotional. Calling is missional is 302 00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:24,640 Speaker 2: God calling you somewhere else, and then all of a sudden, 303 00:16:24,640 --> 00:16:27,440 Speaker 2: as you have this mission, in this alignment with that calling, 304 00:16:27,800 --> 00:16:31,080 Speaker 2: he gives you purpose through that work and through that pursuit. 305 00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:33,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, I would add to that too. Calling He's also 306 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:37,360 Speaker 1: calling us to be like him, So I don't want 307 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:41,000 Speaker 1: us to totally miss that one is vocational, want to 308 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:44,680 Speaker 1: talk a missional. Surely that's vocational, but also there is 309 00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:47,760 Speaker 1: a spiritual calling to be like him, and so to 310 00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:50,840 Speaker 1: be christ Like is not easy. So you cannot be 311 00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:53,360 Speaker 1: comfortable if you're trying to become a disciple. So I 312 00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:54,640 Speaker 1: will add that one as well. 313 00:16:55,280 --> 00:16:58,680 Speaker 2: There's a reason why he said follow me right, because 314 00:16:58,760 --> 00:17:01,880 Speaker 2: it is a pursuit every single day. Pick up your cross, 315 00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:04,919 Speaker 2: bury that cross, and run with it daily right the 316 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:08,760 Speaker 2: race that He has set before you. There's no convocational 317 00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:12,040 Speaker 2: There's no comfort whatsoever there Ken, I'd like to hear 318 00:17:12,080 --> 00:17:15,040 Speaker 2: from you, somebody that coaches, that works with a lot 319 00:17:15,080 --> 00:17:18,600 Speaker 2: of high capacity leaders. You've had the opportunity of gleaning 320 00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:20,800 Speaker 2: from the wealth of wisdom and experience of people that 321 00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:24,160 Speaker 2: you've already mentioned and so many more. When it comes 322 00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:28,360 Speaker 2: to why do you think people besides comfort, besides the emotions, 323 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:34,359 Speaker 2: besides maybe fear imposter syndrome, what really makes people stay 324 00:17:34,440 --> 00:17:37,960 Speaker 2: stuck or just settle for average less than their best, 325 00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:42,520 Speaker 2: maybe not ever experience the greatness that God has really 326 00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:43,800 Speaker 2: desired for their lives. 327 00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:50,719 Speaker 1: Practically, we'd rather be miserable than uncomfortable. But we've been 328 00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:53,359 Speaker 1: talking a little bit about comfort, and the reason people 329 00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:56,640 Speaker 1: stay stuck is because we'd rather be miserable. In other words, 330 00:17:56,680 --> 00:18:00,560 Speaker 1: we'd rather deal with the known, even though everything around 331 00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:07,160 Speaker 1: us is creating misery. We aren't growing, we aren't progressing forward, 332 00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:14,399 Speaker 1: and we're terrified of the unknown, which is uncomfortable. So 333 00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:18,240 Speaker 1: that's why practically, spiritually, it's because we don't have any faith. 334 00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:21,879 Speaker 1: Hebrew says, without faith, it is impossible to please God. 335 00:18:23,240 --> 00:18:26,359 Speaker 1: And so God is asking us to step out on 336 00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:29,320 Speaker 1: a daily basis into the unknown. And it is when 337 00:18:29,359 --> 00:18:32,280 Speaker 1: we step out into the unknown that he can step in, 338 00:18:32,760 --> 00:18:35,600 Speaker 1: and then he gets the glory, not us. So when 339 00:18:35,760 --> 00:18:38,880 Speaker 1: when that scripture verse says it is impossible to please God, 340 00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:41,960 Speaker 1: that is not a recommendation, it's not a theory. That's 341 00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:45,320 Speaker 1: a fact. He wants us to step out so that 342 00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:49,600 Speaker 1: he can step in. So it's spiritual and practical, But 343 00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:52,639 Speaker 1: psychologically is what I mean by the practical side is 344 00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:55,200 Speaker 1: the world you all live in on a daily basis. 345 00:18:56,480 --> 00:18:59,239 Speaker 1: People would rather deal with the devil they know than 346 00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:01,640 Speaker 1: the devil they do, and So that's why I've said 347 00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:06,440 Speaker 1: a million times people would rather be miserable than uncomfortable 348 00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:10,240 Speaker 1: because they can bear with the misery. They have figured 349 00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:14,040 Speaker 1: out a way to medicate through the misery. But boil boy, 350 00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:17,840 Speaker 1: when you step out into the unknown and challenge yourself, 351 00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:22,480 Speaker 1: try something new, learn something new, go somewhere new where 352 00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:26,040 Speaker 1: God calls you, well, you have to swallow a whole 353 00:19:26,080 --> 00:19:33,080 Speaker 1: bunch of uncomfortable of circumstances and realities. And we humans 354 00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:36,040 Speaker 1: are terrified of the unknown. I think it's the greatest fear. 355 00:19:36,440 --> 00:19:40,359 Speaker 1: Fear of failures up there, fear of not pleasing is 356 00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:42,480 Speaker 1: up there. But I think the greatest fear that holds 357 00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:44,680 Speaker 1: humans back is simply the fear of the unknown. 358 00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:48,440 Speaker 2: Can can I ask you, as you've maybe wrestled with 359 00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:52,200 Speaker 2: the fear of the unknown and a lack of certainty, 360 00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:55,440 Speaker 2: especially like jumping from maybe one career path in one 361 00:19:55,520 --> 00:19:59,840 Speaker 2: dream to another, right potentially God orchestrating your steps interviewing Dave, 362 00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:03,240 Speaker 2: then all of a sudden, as he so beautifully intertwined 363 00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:05,840 Speaker 2: your guys's paths. Here you are co hosting the show, 364 00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:08,480 Speaker 2: doing so many amazing things in leadership, like you said, 365 00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:11,320 Speaker 2: having more influence in the sector that you're in today 366 00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:14,560 Speaker 2: than any potential political sector could have ever afforded you 367 00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:19,439 Speaker 2: as you navigated that unknown. How did you find clarity 368 00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:21,240 Speaker 2: in the midst of uncertainty? 369 00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:25,240 Speaker 1: Well, a couple things. One, a lot of prayer and 370 00:20:25,359 --> 00:20:29,399 Speaker 1: just asking God to reveal, to show me what you needed, 371 00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:32,080 Speaker 1: to show me what you wanted to show me. And 372 00:20:32,119 --> 00:20:35,320 Speaker 1: then I think again at some point realizing God is 373 00:20:35,359 --> 00:20:39,240 Speaker 1: not going to lay out a perfect little playbook. You know. 374 00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:42,280 Speaker 1: I think when I was much younger father, my kids 375 00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:45,439 Speaker 1: are now, you know, older, but I remember playing Madden 376 00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:47,800 Speaker 1: for the first time. My boys are NCAA football, you know, 377 00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:49,720 Speaker 1: and teaching them how you could scroll through all the 378 00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:52,280 Speaker 1: different plays and teaching them, Okay, you look at this 379 00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:54,560 Speaker 1: play and if you click on X, it's going to 380 00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:56,760 Speaker 1: run play X there and then you see where the 381 00:20:56,800 --> 00:20:58,719 Speaker 1: receivers are going to go or whatever. But it's all 382 00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:01,480 Speaker 1: laid out for you. Well, God doesn't do it that way. 383 00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:06,879 Speaker 1: So while prayer is vital that God reveals, he's not 384 00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:09,879 Speaker 1: going to reveal everything to you. Sometimes he'll reveal a lot, 385 00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:14,440 Speaker 1: but there's always going to be a need to trust him. 386 00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:19,400 Speaker 1: So part of God answering our prayers is He'll show 387 00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:23,560 Speaker 1: us just enough, you know, to get us to go, Okay, 388 00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:26,160 Speaker 1: You're there, You're in the details, and so I'm gonna 389 00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:27,359 Speaker 1: take this next step, but I don't know what the 390 00:21:27,359 --> 00:21:29,760 Speaker 1: next step like looks like after that. So for me, 391 00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:36,480 Speaker 1: it was prayer, but it was also being very, very 392 00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:41,440 Speaker 1: strategic to take calculated risks. In other words, I think 393 00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:43,639 Speaker 1: this is where free will comes in a lot of 394 00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:45,639 Speaker 1: times people hear free will in the Christian world, and 395 00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:49,320 Speaker 1: it's all about predestination and salvation. But we miss a 396 00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:53,000 Speaker 1: lot that God gives us free will to make decisions. 397 00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:57,960 Speaker 1: And it is in us realizing how much free will 398 00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:02,199 Speaker 1: we have that if we really grasp it, then we 399 00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:06,040 Speaker 1: see that one of the great parts of testing your 400 00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:09,840 Speaker 1: faith and growing your faith is to exercise the free 401 00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:12,760 Speaker 1: will you've been given. And so, you know, I was 402 00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:16,560 Speaker 1: very good at calculating risks to go, Okay, I'm gonna 403 00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:18,760 Speaker 1: take this risk. I don't know how it's gonna play out. 404 00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:21,800 Speaker 1: God hasn't made it super clear to me how it's 405 00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:25,159 Speaker 1: gonna play out, and yet I think he wants me 406 00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:27,080 Speaker 1: to do it. And I'm gonna try to use as 407 00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:31,640 Speaker 1: much discernment and wisdom and common sense that are all 408 00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:34,520 Speaker 1: gifts of the Father, and I'm gonna make the best 409 00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:36,520 Speaker 1: decision I can. I'm gonna go for it, knowing that 410 00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:41,919 Speaker 1: if it is his will that these moves pay off, great, 411 00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:44,560 Speaker 1: if it's his will that these moves don't pay off. 412 00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:47,479 Speaker 1: And I learned something. So I'm one of my old bosses, 413 00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:51,439 Speaker 1: John Maxwell wrote the book sometimes you win, sometimes you learn, learn, 414 00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:54,600 Speaker 1: and so that was my simple approach. I'm not the 415 00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:58,119 Speaker 1: smartest guy in the world, not a great strategist, but 416 00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:02,000 Speaker 1: I do feel like I have the gift of discernment, 417 00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:05,639 Speaker 1: and I feel like, you know, I'm pretty decent at 418 00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:10,440 Speaker 1: common sense. Doesn't make me special. But the key is 419 00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:11,840 Speaker 1: is that when you take those two things and you 420 00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:13,640 Speaker 1: put them together and you say, Okay, I got to act, 421 00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:21,080 Speaker 1: and the very action of taking a step is faith, 422 00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:23,600 Speaker 1: And then I think God has just honored it. And 423 00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:26,359 Speaker 1: I can tell a story after story after story where 424 00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:30,560 Speaker 1: the most unbelievable things happened as a result of me 425 00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:33,159 Speaker 1: just continuing to show up. And some of the biggest 426 00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:35,960 Speaker 1: breaks in my career, biggest interviews I've ever gotten to do, 427 00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:39,680 Speaker 1: were not planned. It looked as though it was a 428 00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:45,840 Speaker 1: you know, of fortunate you know circumstance to fall my way. Well, 429 00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:49,640 Speaker 1: I know better than that, you know. And I think 430 00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:52,359 Speaker 1: God just wants us to keep showing up and showing 431 00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:56,000 Speaker 1: up and showing up and showing up. And then when 432 00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:58,679 Speaker 1: we don't want to show up, show up, and he 433 00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:01,760 Speaker 1: just knows what he's doing. And when we least expect it, 434 00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:07,879 Speaker 1: sometimes that God moment or that train that God said 435 00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:11,679 Speaker 1: just shows up at the train station. And it's a 436 00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:14,480 Speaker 1: beautiful thing when you watch him work. And I need 437 00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:16,439 Speaker 1: to be reminded all the time that He's constantly in 438 00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:20,160 Speaker 1: the details and he doesn't need me in the details. 439 00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:22,720 Speaker 1: He just needs me to show up and be present. 440 00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:25,680 Speaker 3: Come on again, you're preaching now. 441 00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:28,080 Speaker 2: There's so many different things that I'm writing down taking 442 00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:31,359 Speaker 2: away from this just this idea of trusting God in 443 00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:34,920 Speaker 2: the details again, taking that first step of faith, which 444 00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:37,800 Speaker 2: that is where faith is found, right, it's forged through action. 445 00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:40,800 Speaker 2: But at the same time having the discernments of pray, 446 00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:43,359 Speaker 2: surrounding yourself with the right people, and then just having 447 00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:46,080 Speaker 2: some common sense and knowing that you know what God 448 00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:48,959 Speaker 2: is putting us on the right path and trusting that 449 00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:51,639 Speaker 2: process every day. Something can that I struggle with as 450 00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:53,960 Speaker 2: it relates to work, and I'm sure it's something a 451 00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:56,400 Speaker 2: lot of men struggle with, is being able to turn 452 00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:59,119 Speaker 2: it off. I was raised in a home, growing up 453 00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:03,240 Speaker 2: playing sports. Competition runs through my DNA, and so flipping 454 00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:07,400 Speaker 2: the switch on easy thing for Zach Clinton. Sometimes it's hard, though, 455 00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:09,919 Speaker 2: to turn the switch off when I go home, to 456 00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:13,440 Speaker 2: remind myself that I'm also building something at home. There's 457 00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:16,119 Speaker 2: a mission at home with my bride, with my future 458 00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:18,479 Speaker 2: family that I want to make sure that I'm giving 459 00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:21,720 Speaker 2: every ounce of my energy even more to my Jerusalem 460 00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:25,159 Speaker 2: and not just my Judaea Samaria in the uttermost parts. 461 00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:25,359 Speaker 1: Of the earth. 462 00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:26,800 Speaker 3: I don't just want to build a work. I want 463 00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:27,480 Speaker 3: to build it home. 464 00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:30,680 Speaker 2: Ken help speak to a man to a woman out 465 00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:33,720 Speaker 2: there today who finds rest as unproductive. 466 00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:38,040 Speaker 1: Well, you're missing it. You're fooling yourself, and thus you 467 00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:41,520 Speaker 1: look foolish, and you're acting foolish. You're too busy being 468 00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:45,879 Speaker 1: a human doing instead of a human being. And I 469 00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:49,840 Speaker 1: think it's very important that we re evaluate what we 470 00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:55,840 Speaker 1: call successful. So those emails are those are those social 471 00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:59,480 Speaker 1: media comments or the phone calls that you're wanting to 472 00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:02,200 Speaker 1: have at night when you should be in the house 473 00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:05,320 Speaker 1: with your family totally present. None of that's gonna matter 474 00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:08,320 Speaker 1: when you're on your deathbed, none of it. None of 475 00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:12,480 Speaker 1: it's gonna matter when times are tough. None of it's 476 00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:15,960 Speaker 1: gonna matter. The only thing that matters is those core 477 00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:20,160 Speaker 1: relationships that God has honored you with and stewarded you with. 478 00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:22,800 Speaker 1: And now you have to take over that stewardship. And 479 00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:26,080 Speaker 1: I think it's as simple as that to go how 480 00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:30,000 Speaker 1: much better do you think your life is? And I'm 481 00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:31,560 Speaker 1: not seeing this critically, but I would look at you 482 00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:34,440 Speaker 1: and go, all right, Zach, over the last five nights 483 00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:37,240 Speaker 1: Monday through Friday, when you're having a hard time, turn 484 00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:39,200 Speaker 1: it off. If I were your coach and we were 485 00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:41,600 Speaker 1: meeting privately, I would say, show me what you did. 486 00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:44,919 Speaker 1: Let's pull up your emails, let's pull up your text 487 00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:48,280 Speaker 1: Let's look at the amount of time you spend on 488 00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:52,000 Speaker 1: your phone this week, and let's just look at that. Okay, 489 00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:55,560 Speaker 1: and let's see what the ROI is on that long term? 490 00:26:56,359 --> 00:26:58,280 Speaker 1: How much is that going to matter at Christmas when 491 00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:00,520 Speaker 1: your kids are twenty and twenty one, twenty two and 492 00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:02,960 Speaker 1: you want tom coming back. I think that's what you 493 00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:06,119 Speaker 1: have to ask. And then I think you have to 494 00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:08,480 Speaker 1: also in light of that, also go, okay, am I 495 00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:10,639 Speaker 1: a human doing or human being? And if I'm a 496 00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:15,000 Speaker 1: human being, I'm actually a husband and a father and 497 00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:20,680 Speaker 1: a son and a brother. First, yes, I'm a coworker 498 00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:23,600 Speaker 1: after all of that other stuff. And you know the 499 00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:26,880 Speaker 1: relationship data from Harvard the longest relationship study. You talked 500 00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:31,119 Speaker 1: about human flourishing. You know, the secret to a healthy 501 00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:33,720 Speaker 1: and successful life is the quality of your relationships, not 502 00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:38,280 Speaker 1: the quality of your PowerPoint presentations, not the amount of 503 00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:41,400 Speaker 1: money in your four oh one K. So that would 504 00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:43,120 Speaker 1: be my response to you. If you're having a hard 505 00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:48,480 Speaker 1: time turning it off. The question is is what's beneath 506 00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:52,119 Speaker 1: all that? In other words, what are you chasing? What 507 00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:55,480 Speaker 1: are you chasing that is requiring you to work at 508 00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:57,919 Speaker 1: night and weekends instead of be at home and be 509 00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:01,520 Speaker 1: president home. What are you chasing? Because there's your ghost. 510 00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:06,200 Speaker 1: And I will tell you I have no problem with this. 511 00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:08,080 Speaker 1: And by the way, anybody who works with me at 512 00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:10,679 Speaker 1: Ramsey can tell you that I am absolutely telling you 513 00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:14,000 Speaker 1: the truth. They never get emails or text for me 514 00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:18,000 Speaker 1: on weekends or nights, just don't do it. And I 515 00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:22,000 Speaker 1: completely turn it off because I just made a decision 516 00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:26,719 Speaker 1: very early on because it took us seven seven years 517 00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:29,240 Speaker 1: to start a family, and I wanted it so bad. 518 00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:30,640 Speaker 1: I wanted it more than in the world. So when 519 00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:31,960 Speaker 1: I got it, I was like, I'm not going to 520 00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:35,880 Speaker 1: be that dad whose kids don't know him because he's 521 00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:37,879 Speaker 1: always stuck in his phone and everybody else is more 522 00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:40,040 Speaker 1: important than them. Not going to be that guy. And 523 00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:43,360 Speaker 1: to this day, I'm almost an empty nester now and 524 00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:45,440 Speaker 1: I'm still not that way. I mean, I just don't 525 00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:47,840 Speaker 1: work at nights, and I don't work on weekends. Now 526 00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:51,320 Speaker 1: there's occasional maybe a quick burst or something that I 527 00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:54,800 Speaker 1: got to respond to. But I just got back from 528 00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:57,400 Speaker 1: a trip on a Thursday and a Friday. I was 529 00:28:57,440 --> 00:29:00,880 Speaker 1: out speaking in San Diego and I got to spend 530 00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:04,840 Speaker 1: two extra days with my wife out there, and I unplugged, 531 00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:09,160 Speaker 1: and you can pull up my phone records and my 532 00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:11,720 Speaker 1: em inbox, and you can look at how much work 533 00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:13,800 Speaker 1: I did while I was there, and it was little 534 00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:17,280 Speaker 1: to none because I was with my wife. So I 535 00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:18,920 Speaker 1: just I keep reading stories. One other thing on that, 536 00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:21,520 Speaker 1: I keep reading stories about these NFL coaches, And you know, 537 00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:24,040 Speaker 1: I like Mike McDonald. He's a former Michigan coach and 538 00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:26,320 Speaker 1: defensive coordinator for the Ravens. I he's the head coach 539 00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:28,920 Speaker 1: of the Seattle Seahawks. He went viral. You can go 540 00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:31,440 Speaker 1: look this up. He went viral last week for talking 541 00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:33,640 Speaker 1: about how intentional he is thirty minutes a week to 542 00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:37,480 Speaker 1: spend time with his son, one thirty minute period. And 543 00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:40,560 Speaker 1: he's a good guy. I'm sure he's a really good coach. 544 00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:43,560 Speaker 1: But man, I was so sad watching that, and I'm going, 545 00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:48,360 Speaker 1: there's no NFL job that that is that important. So 546 00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:52,840 Speaker 1: but there's become this expectation in coaching circles that you 547 00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:56,040 Speaker 1: got to be at the office until ten, eleven, twelve 548 00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:58,080 Speaker 1: o'clock at night and then back and so why what 549 00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:01,320 Speaker 1: are you doing? It's not that important. I'd love to 550 00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:03,800 Speaker 1: follow these guys around and expose this nonsense, because what 551 00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:06,360 Speaker 1: it's going to do is continue to create broken family. 552 00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:11,040 Speaker 1: So you're just not that important. Nobody cares about the 553 00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:13,680 Speaker 1: email or the phone call or the social media post 554 00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:18,160 Speaker 1: you're gonna send after it. Nobody cares. Nobody cares. I'm sorry, 555 00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:19,720 Speaker 1: it's so true. 556 00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:24,200 Speaker 2: I'll never forget doctor James Dobson sitting down across from 557 00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:26,880 Speaker 2: me and sharing the really the same amount of wisdom 558 00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:30,120 Speaker 2: that you just shared, and he said, zach Lfeil Trasher trophies. 559 00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:32,120 Speaker 2: At the end of the day, all that matters is 560 00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:34,840 Speaker 2: who you loved and who loved you. My dad is 561 00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:37,440 Speaker 2: a great example of that, Ken, somebody that has worked 562 00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:41,600 Speaker 2: really hard, but someone that prioritize never missing a practice 563 00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:44,440 Speaker 2: or a game or a meal. I mean that dude 564 00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:46,720 Speaker 2: was the king of a red eye or a down 565 00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:48,920 Speaker 2: in back, whatever the flight looked like. He would get 566 00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:53,120 Speaker 2: the job done, but he would prioritize my mom, my, sister, myself. 567 00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:55,880 Speaker 2: Those are the memories that I have etched in the 568 00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:58,840 Speaker 2: back of my mind. Someone I remember once said that 569 00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:02,040 Speaker 2: the only person will remember how hard you work twenty 570 00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:04,520 Speaker 2: years from now as your kids. Make sure that your 571 00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:06,560 Speaker 2: kids have a good memory. That's really what I'm hearing 572 00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:09,240 Speaker 2: you say. Two follow up questions I have for you, Ken. 573 00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:12,680 Speaker 2: The first one is when I'm just thinking about work 574 00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:15,600 Speaker 2: leaders that are potentially listening to this interview, somebody that's 575 00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:18,600 Speaker 2: gleaned a lot from your leadership wisdom and just your 576 00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:21,480 Speaker 2: wealth of experience. Something that we try to create even 577 00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:25,640 Speaker 2: at AACC is let's just say, an atmosphere where people 578 00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:28,920 Speaker 2: are celebrated and not just tolerated, because we want people 579 00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:31,440 Speaker 2: to enjoy coming to work. We don't want this just 580 00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:33,800 Speaker 2: to be another thing that you do just because it 581 00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:36,160 Speaker 2: gives you a paycheck. We wanted to give you purpose 582 00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:39,080 Speaker 2: in a relational manner, because that's where I think really 583 00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:41,920 Speaker 2: is at the root of resilience in general. Speak to 584 00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:45,360 Speaker 2: a leader out there about the significance of making sure 585 00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:48,480 Speaker 2: that the workplace that they are affording employees and different 586 00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:51,200 Speaker 2: people that work alongside of them, make it the most 587 00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:52,640 Speaker 2: meaningful space possible. 588 00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:56,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, Gallup has done the most unbelievable work 589 00:31:56,720 --> 00:32:00,120 Speaker 1: on employee engagement for decades and every you know, a 590 00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:02,120 Speaker 1: couple of years will put out a new update. In 591 00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:06,200 Speaker 1: the latest report that they put out on engagement, employee 592 00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:09,160 Speaker 1: engagement came down to three things that leaders needed to 593 00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:11,840 Speaker 1: do and they were talking about these as human needs 594 00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:15,920 Speaker 1: that that every employee has. And so this is the 595 00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:18,360 Speaker 1: answer to your question. So leaders need to understand that 596 00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:21,760 Speaker 1: there's three human needs. Number One, people need to see 597 00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:25,080 Speaker 1: purpose and meaning in their work. How does their role, 598 00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:29,640 Speaker 1: no matter how significant in the organization, how is their role, 599 00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:34,560 Speaker 1: how does it fill a specific need? So, if you're 600 00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:37,120 Speaker 1: you know, if you think about Ramsey Solutions, you know, 601 00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:40,360 Speaker 1: how does a programmer here who's writing code, you know, 602 00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:42,920 Speaker 1: see purpose and meaning in their work. Whether their leaders 603 00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:44,760 Speaker 1: got to let them know that when you're writing code 604 00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:47,680 Speaker 1: and then this turns into this product or we put 605 00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:49,680 Speaker 1: this show out and someone gets out of debt and 606 00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:51,880 Speaker 1: they break the bondage of debt the rest of their 607 00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:53,920 Speaker 1: life and change the life. You guys had a role 608 00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:56,720 Speaker 1: in that, you know. So they so so Number one, 609 00:32:56,720 --> 00:33:00,200 Speaker 1: people need to see meaning and purpose in their role 610 00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:04,720 Speaker 1: at work. So show them how it's missional and playing 611 00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:07,920 Speaker 1: into the bigger vision of the organization too. They need 612 00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:10,600 Speaker 1: to be They need to receive recognition for their work. 613 00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:14,040 Speaker 1: You need to recognize them. You touched on this informating 614 00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:18,520 Speaker 1: and inform uh informing your question. They need to be recognized, right, 615 00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:24,040 Speaker 1: They need to be recognized publicly and privately for their contribution. 616 00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:26,840 Speaker 1: We can't forget and you know this in the psychology world, 617 00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:29,800 Speaker 1: that every man and woman that is underneath your leadership 618 00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:32,320 Speaker 1: is still a little boy and a little girl ultimately 619 00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:36,280 Speaker 1: wondering do you love me? Do I matter? And so 620 00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:40,560 Speaker 1: for the boss it's it's hey, do I matter to you? 621 00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:44,239 Speaker 1: So they need recognition for their unique contribution. And then 622 00:33:44,280 --> 00:33:48,440 Speaker 1: the third human need is a relationship with their leader. 623 00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:51,440 Speaker 1: Now this is not best friends stuff. We're not saying 624 00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:53,760 Speaker 1: that you got to be best friends in vacation together. 625 00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:57,520 Speaker 1: Obviously that's that's not realistic and that's not a healthy relationship. 626 00:33:57,520 --> 00:33:59,880 Speaker 1: What we are talking about here is that coach or men, 627 00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:07,320 Speaker 1: they desire to be poured into, to be instructed, to 628 00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:11,759 Speaker 1: be corrected in a loving, healthy way. So if you 629 00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:14,640 Speaker 1: meet those three human needs, here's what's going to happen. 630 00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:18,640 Speaker 1: You have a very healthy relationship with the employees that 631 00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:21,720 Speaker 1: you lead. And as a result of that healthiness, because 632 00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:24,480 Speaker 1: of their needs being met, they have a very loyal 633 00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:27,799 Speaker 1: and productive relationship with you in the company. When people 634 00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:31,000 Speaker 1: leave companies, they don't leave companies, they leave leaders. And 635 00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:33,160 Speaker 1: I want you to catch the significance of that statement. 636 00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:35,520 Speaker 1: People don't leave companies, they leave leaders, and it's not 637 00:34:36,160 --> 00:34:38,720 Speaker 1: most of the time something that you as a leader 638 00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:43,799 Speaker 1: did to them. It's mostly because what you didn't do 639 00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:47,640 Speaker 1: for them. And so back to the three human needs, 640 00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:52,040 Speaker 1: show them, make sure that they see meaning and purpose 641 00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:55,319 Speaker 1: in their work too. They need to be recognized for 642 00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:58,160 Speaker 1: their unique contribution and number three. They need a relationship 643 00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:01,040 Speaker 1: with you to where they feel like you value and 644 00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:03,960 Speaker 1: taking on that role of coach or mentor is exactly 645 00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:05,840 Speaker 1: the way to do that. So the answer to your 646 00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:09,080 Speaker 1: question is meet those three human needs. That's a game changer. 647 00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:10,680 Speaker 1: And by the way, I would also tell you this, 648 00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:14,440 Speaker 1: engagement's going to go up. This came out of the 649 00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:17,960 Speaker 1: engagement study. And obviously when engagement goes up, productivity goes 650 00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:20,840 Speaker 1: up and profitability goes up. Right, Okay, so we go, 651 00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:24,279 Speaker 1: oh yeah, yeah, yah, everybody wants that, right, But this 652 00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:28,239 Speaker 1: is the competitive advantage because two things are going to 653 00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:32,600 Speaker 1: happen as a result of those three outputs. Greater engagement, 654 00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:36,440 Speaker 1: greater productivity, greater profitability. Well, the magic in this is 655 00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:41,200 Speaker 1: longer retention. They will stay with you longer. And it's 656 00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:44,000 Speaker 1: also going to give you a recruiting advantage because you 657 00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:46,560 Speaker 1: get your best people from your current people, because they're 658 00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:48,000 Speaker 1: going to go, hey, you need to come work over 659 00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:50,960 Speaker 1: here because of this environment. This is a great culture. 660 00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:55,000 Speaker 1: So I would tell you want to create a winning company, 661 00:35:56,440 --> 00:35:58,680 Speaker 1: meet those three human needs, and out of that is 662 00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:02,680 Speaker 1: the well spring of great culture development. 663 00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:06,680 Speaker 2: Wow, so much wisdom there, my friend. You know, Ken 664 00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:09,000 Speaker 2: I wish I could sit down with you for a 665 00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:11,400 Speaker 2: day and just pick your brain like this, But I 666 00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:13,920 Speaker 2: only have time for one more question. It's a question 667 00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:15,840 Speaker 2: I ask all of the different leaders on the show, 668 00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:19,840 Speaker 2: and it's if you had one opportunity to share just 669 00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:23,160 Speaker 2: one final word of hope, encouragement and motivation for an 670 00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:24,920 Speaker 2: audience member out there. And who I really want you 671 00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:28,400 Speaker 2: to speak to is an audience member that feels a 672 00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:32,000 Speaker 2: little lost, that feels pretty stuck, that maybe doesn't have 673 00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:35,080 Speaker 2: their purpose. I'm thinking about the intersection when I think 674 00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:38,000 Speaker 2: of purpose, I think it often kind of communicates what 675 00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:40,960 Speaker 2: you really share in terms of your messaging. The intersection 676 00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:45,520 Speaker 2: for purpose is found in personality, passion, and sometimes your pains. 677 00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:48,319 Speaker 2: Right being able to find the intersection of those things. 678 00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:51,000 Speaker 2: To the person out there who's stuck, who's lost, who's wandering, 679 00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:53,200 Speaker 2: who doesn't feel like they have a purpose, what's a 680 00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:55,680 Speaker 2: final word of hope to help them look, love, live 681 00:36:56,080 --> 00:36:58,399 Speaker 2: and lead a little bit different from the inside out. 682 00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:04,120 Speaker 1: Well, at first, I have to identify what emotion you're 683 00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:11,600 Speaker 1: really feeling. You know, what are you feeling? Is it anger? Sadness? 684 00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:14,560 Speaker 1: You know? Is it loneliness? You know? This is where 685 00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:16,800 Speaker 1: I would get with a professional if you're someone is 686 00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:19,640 Speaker 1: identifying the way that Zach has laid out, I think 687 00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:23,480 Speaker 1: getting with a professional therapist just to get a reset, 688 00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:26,359 Speaker 1: someone who's used to seeing and guiding, and they can 689 00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:29,840 Speaker 1: help you get below the surface. It's like going to 690 00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:32,560 Speaker 1: a doctor and saying my knee is sore, but walking 691 00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:36,200 Speaker 1: out of the doctor's office having no evidence or plan 692 00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:39,719 Speaker 1: to gather why the knee is sore. So I think 693 00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:42,319 Speaker 1: it's really important. And I'm talking about awareness here, and 694 00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:44,680 Speaker 1: sometimes you got to get with a professional or certainly 695 00:37:44,719 --> 00:37:49,560 Speaker 1: a pastor. So let's get awareness of why I'm stuck, 696 00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:56,279 Speaker 1: because stuck is not Stuck is not a state, it's 697 00:37:56,280 --> 00:37:59,319 Speaker 1: not a state of emotion. Stuck is just I'm not 698 00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:03,920 Speaker 1: moving forward because I'm paralyzed by something else. So that's 699 00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:06,960 Speaker 1: stuck is just kind of all right. I'm just I'm 700 00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:09,720 Speaker 1: in a holding pattern, and I'm holding because I feel 701 00:38:09,719 --> 00:38:11,880 Speaker 1: more control where I'm at as opposed to where I 702 00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:13,759 Speaker 1: need to be. So let's let's call that what that is. 703 00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:15,520 Speaker 1: So that's why I said the first step is to 704 00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:17,799 Speaker 1: get some awareness and then and then once we get 705 00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:21,480 Speaker 1: awareness of what's causing us to to be in a 706 00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:25,959 Speaker 1: holding pattern. Let's go get healthy, right, Let's let's let's 707 00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:29,759 Speaker 1: fight that false narrative. Let's get the right narrative. So 708 00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:32,520 Speaker 1: let's get emotionally healthy, which allows to create the right 709 00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:36,560 Speaker 1: mindset to then be able to move forward. And I 710 00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:38,640 Speaker 1: think once you do those two things, then it comes 711 00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:43,080 Speaker 1: down to this move. You know. Move. It's one of 712 00:38:43,080 --> 00:38:45,759 Speaker 1: my favorite rock songs of all time. Switch Foot wrote it, 713 00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:47,799 Speaker 1: Dare you to move. At this point, it's just like 714 00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:50,440 Speaker 1: I dare you to move, but only after we've done 715 00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:54,440 Speaker 1: those first two things, because now we're moving towards something, 716 00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:57,839 Speaker 1: we're not moving away from something. And I think that 717 00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:00,520 Speaker 1: you've probably gotten to this place of being duck because 718 00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:03,920 Speaker 1: you were running from and we don't want to do 719 00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:05,600 Speaker 1: that anymore. We want to get healthy. You want to 720 00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:07,960 Speaker 1: get clear. We want to see what God has for us. 721 00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:10,080 Speaker 1: And I would tell you this that when we get 722 00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:14,160 Speaker 1: clear on what is holding us back and then how 723 00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:17,200 Speaker 1: to overcome that, here's what takes place. Once we get 724 00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:21,600 Speaker 1: absolute clarity on those two things, what's causing the pain 725 00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:25,480 Speaker 1: and how do I alleviate the pain? Now we develop confidence. 726 00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:30,319 Speaker 1: Clarity breeds confidence, and confidence breeds courage. And so that's 727 00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:32,600 Speaker 1: the process. So there are going to be multiple times 728 00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:35,080 Speaker 1: in your life where you will return to what Zach 729 00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:38,520 Speaker 1: has laid out for us. And it's a great question 730 00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:40,960 Speaker 1: because we all reach these points in life where we 731 00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:43,720 Speaker 1: feel stuck, and so what's the answer. Retreat to clarity. 732 00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:48,160 Speaker 1: Once I get clarity, I will then automatically get confidence, 733 00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:51,560 Speaker 1: confidence of what I need to do, confidence where I 734 00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:54,160 Speaker 1: need to go, and so I move forward. And as 735 00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:57,080 Speaker 1: we begin to move forward, we will get threatened again 736 00:39:57,320 --> 00:40:00,160 Speaker 1: with that fear. But because we are rooted in clarity 737 00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:02,920 Speaker 1: and now moving in confidence, this is the best part. 738 00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:07,120 Speaker 1: Then courage will take hold when we need it. But 739 00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:11,880 Speaker 1: you cannot have courage absence of clarity. It is clarity 740 00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:14,400 Speaker 1: that leads to confidence, confidence that leads the courage. So 741 00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:18,400 Speaker 1: if that's you today and you feel stuck, I promise 742 00:40:18,440 --> 00:40:21,400 Speaker 1: you that process will work every time. Because remember this 743 00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:23,239 Speaker 1: God is not a god of confusion. He's not the 744 00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:27,800 Speaker 1: author of confusion. Satan is. And so let's go get clear. 745 00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:30,479 Speaker 1: And when we get clear, then we begin to see 746 00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:35,120 Speaker 1: ourselves as Christ sees us. And then we have that confidence, 747 00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:40,120 Speaker 1: that spiritual confidence, and then that holy courage that can 748 00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:42,200 Speaker 1: only come from knowing what is right. 749 00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:48,400 Speaker 2: Clarity breeds confidence, Confidence breeds courage. Ken callman, my friend, 750 00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:51,520 Speaker 2: I'm grateful for you again, your wealth of wisdom, experience 751 00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:53,439 Speaker 2: and knowledge that you are willing to share with me 752 00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:56,720 Speaker 2: and our audience today. I know my dad again sends 753 00:40:56,719 --> 00:40:58,840 Speaker 2: his regards that he wasn't here a part of this interview, 754 00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:01,040 Speaker 2: but he's grateful for you and your leadership as in mind, 755 00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:02,600 Speaker 2: my friend, thank you so much for your time and 756 00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:03,879 Speaker 2: your willingness and joining me today. 757 00:41:04,040 --> 00:41:05,240 Speaker 1: Appreciate you, my honor