1 00:00:20,156 --> 00:00:23,236 Speaker 1: Hi friend, I'm so glad you're here today. Let's learn 2 00:00:23,276 --> 00:00:26,916 Speaker 1: how to raise our kids to love God, respect authority, 3 00:00:27,196 --> 00:00:31,036 Speaker 1: and do what's right. Let's scroll less and live more. 4 00:00:31,356 --> 00:00:38,036 Speaker 1: I'm Arlene Pelicane and this is a happy home. Well, 5 00:00:38,076 --> 00:00:40,435 Speaker 1: it is so great to have you back. Justin Windmill 6 00:00:40,476 --> 00:00:43,236 Speaker 1: Early the author of one of my favorite parenting books, 7 00:00:43,275 --> 00:00:46,476 Speaker 1: Habits of the Household, and he has a new book 8 00:00:46,516 --> 00:00:50,715 Speaker 1: called The Body Teaches the Soul ten essential habits to 9 00:00:50,796 --> 00:00:54,436 Speaker 1: form a healthy and holy life. Welcome back to the podcast. 10 00:00:54,075 --> 00:00:57,276 Speaker 2: Justin Thank you, Arlene. I am honored to it have 11 00:00:57,396 --> 00:01:00,276 Speaker 2: me back, especially on such a topic. 12 00:01:00,916 --> 00:01:03,276 Speaker 1: Yes, well, we got to meet each other in real 13 00:01:03,316 --> 00:01:07,356 Speaker 1: life at a wonderful parenting conference speaking at Harvest Church 14 00:01:07,516 --> 00:01:11,035 Speaker 1: in Memphis. That was amazing, and so I love having 15 00:01:11,036 --> 00:01:13,276 Speaker 1: on guests who I actually know in real life. That 16 00:01:13,356 --> 00:01:17,236 Speaker 1: brings an extra source of joy to it. But you know, 17 00:01:17,476 --> 00:01:21,316 Speaker 1: ten years ago, you were a lawyer and a dad 18 00:01:21,756 --> 00:01:26,156 Speaker 1: and your life fell apart because your body fell apart. 19 00:01:26,875 --> 00:01:28,916 Speaker 1: A lot of times we don't recognize We just like, 20 00:01:28,956 --> 00:01:31,876 Speaker 1: oh our body. Whatever. Tell us, why is the body 21 00:01:32,075 --> 00:01:34,516 Speaker 1: so important that you decided to write a book on it? 22 00:01:36,636 --> 00:01:38,755 Speaker 2: Yeah, this is ten years in the making for sure, 23 00:01:38,836 --> 00:01:43,356 Speaker 2: and by way of failure, not success. So for listeners 24 00:01:43,356 --> 00:01:46,076 Speaker 2: who don't have background on my story, which is probably 25 00:01:46,476 --> 00:01:49,796 Speaker 2: most of you, here's my story. I ten years ago 26 00:01:50,116 --> 00:01:53,196 Speaker 2: had a collapse. And this was right at the time 27 00:01:53,756 --> 00:02:00,316 Speaker 2: that I transferred from being a former missionary to lawyer. 28 00:02:00,916 --> 00:02:04,116 Speaker 2: So I was a missionary in China for almost five 29 00:02:04,196 --> 00:02:05,836 Speaker 2: years in my early twenties, and then I went to 30 00:02:05,916 --> 00:02:08,636 Speaker 2: law school because I felt really called by God to 31 00:02:08,676 --> 00:02:10,196 Speaker 2: go to law school, so I ran at that with 32 00:02:10,236 --> 00:02:12,836 Speaker 2: all the fervor of a man on a call. And 33 00:02:12,876 --> 00:02:15,156 Speaker 2: then I ended up in my first year of lawyering 34 00:02:15,556 --> 00:02:20,556 Speaker 2: with a terrible, terrible mental health. It was very sudden. 35 00:02:20,676 --> 00:02:22,556 Speaker 2: It was very sudden collapse for me. It was like 36 00:02:22,636 --> 00:02:26,676 Speaker 2: one night I started experiencing insomnia and panic attacks, and 37 00:02:26,716 --> 00:02:30,436 Speaker 2: it got worse and worse, very rapidly, until I was 38 00:02:30,716 --> 00:02:33,956 Speaker 2: really struggling to sleep. I was needing to medicate or 39 00:02:34,036 --> 00:02:36,796 Speaker 2: drink alcohol just to go to sleep at night. And 40 00:02:37,395 --> 00:02:41,356 Speaker 2: I had been converted, the former missionary, had been converted 41 00:02:41,356 --> 00:02:45,516 Speaker 2: to the nervous, medicating lawyer really really quickly. And what 42 00:02:45,596 --> 00:02:47,876 Speaker 2: was so strange about that time to me, Arlene, was 43 00:02:47,876 --> 00:02:50,836 Speaker 2: how much it showed up in my body, right, I 44 00:02:50,835 --> 00:02:53,756 Speaker 2: think lots of the body teaches the soul is the 45 00:02:53,796 --> 00:02:55,715 Speaker 2: title of this book. I think before I ever thought 46 00:02:55,756 --> 00:02:58,796 Speaker 2: about that, it was something like the body catches the 47 00:02:58,835 --> 00:03:02,316 Speaker 2: attention of the soul, as in something was wrong, but 48 00:03:02,476 --> 00:03:05,316 Speaker 2: it showed up in my body first and only then 49 00:03:05,436 --> 00:03:08,236 Speaker 2: became panic thoughts in my mind. But I didn't really 50 00:03:08,236 --> 00:03:11,796 Speaker 2: have a good category for this. So there's really been 51 00:03:11,916 --> 00:03:17,116 Speaker 2: a two part realization for me ever since. And readers 52 00:03:17,156 --> 00:03:19,876 Speaker 2: will track with this if you've read any of my books. 53 00:03:20,356 --> 00:03:27,115 Speaker 2: The first realization was how much ordinary life is actually 54 00:03:27,476 --> 00:03:31,356 Speaker 2: a set of spiritual disciplines that form who you are mind, body, 55 00:03:31,356 --> 00:03:34,276 Speaker 2: and soul. Okay, And so by that I mean I 56 00:03:34,316 --> 00:03:36,796 Speaker 2: look back at that time and I see that I 57 00:03:36,836 --> 00:03:39,756 Speaker 2: had a really good worldview, so I would put my head, 58 00:03:39,836 --> 00:03:42,636 Speaker 2: you know, running this way towards God. But I also 59 00:03:42,676 --> 00:03:45,236 Speaker 2: look back at that time and I see my habits 60 00:03:45,396 --> 00:03:49,076 Speaker 2: running the opposite way. My habits were completely antithetical to 61 00:03:49,076 --> 00:03:53,676 Speaker 2: the Christian worldview. So I was full of unhealthy habits 62 00:03:53,676 --> 00:03:56,876 Speaker 2: that were scrolling and then putting my identity and work 63 00:03:56,876 --> 00:03:59,516 Speaker 2: because of the way I scrolled my email, shortening my 64 00:03:59,596 --> 00:04:02,156 Speaker 2: sleep and you know, always adding more to my resume 65 00:04:02,676 --> 00:04:04,796 Speaker 2: eating on the go because I was always packing life 66 00:04:04,836 --> 00:04:08,036 Speaker 2: with more work, not being attentive to my body or 67 00:04:08,076 --> 00:04:11,636 Speaker 2: my mind, and thus my you know, my habits were 68 00:04:11,636 --> 00:04:16,036 Speaker 2: just pulling, you know, stretching myself. And what I tell 69 00:04:16,076 --> 00:04:19,236 Speaker 2: readers and people anybody I talked to, is when your 70 00:04:19,236 --> 00:04:20,716 Speaker 2: head goes one way and your habits go the other, 71 00:04:20,836 --> 00:04:25,076 Speaker 2: your your heart tends to follow the habits. And this 72 00:04:25,156 --> 00:04:28,356 Speaker 2: has been a driving realization of my past decade about 73 00:04:28,396 --> 00:04:31,676 Speaker 2: why spiritual formation is so important, important why habits are 74 00:04:31,676 --> 00:04:33,476 Speaker 2: so important, and the realm of parenting and the realm 75 00:04:33,556 --> 00:04:39,195 Speaker 2: of spirituality. But one of the things that I really 76 00:04:39,236 --> 00:04:43,515 Speaker 2: I just didn't have the time the research, and the Lord, 77 00:04:43,755 --> 00:04:45,916 Speaker 2: you know, the Lord works in our life is slowly 78 00:04:45,956 --> 00:04:48,116 Speaker 2: over time. And one of the things that began to 79 00:04:48,156 --> 00:04:52,635 Speaker 2: emerge about five years into my recovery, Arlene, was how 80 00:04:52,716 --> 00:04:59,716 Speaker 2: much the Lord was using physical disciplines to improve my 81 00:04:59,836 --> 00:05:02,476 Speaker 2: spiritual health. And this didn't really make sense to me. Okay, 82 00:05:04,236 --> 00:05:05,756 Speaker 2: I even think I didn't want to admit it at 83 00:05:05,755 --> 00:05:08,516 Speaker 2: first because I didn't have a category for it. Why 84 00:05:08,676 --> 00:05:15,035 Speaker 2: was fasting having such a huge impact on my mental health? Literally, 85 00:05:15,076 --> 00:05:17,195 Speaker 2: it was just not eating, Like, how does not eating 86 00:05:17,276 --> 00:05:19,395 Speaker 2: change your spiritual health. But that's a practice all over 87 00:05:19,396 --> 00:05:23,436 Speaker 2: the Bible. One of the biggest parts of my mental 88 00:05:23,476 --> 00:05:27,075 Speaker 2: health recovery that gave my soul a feeling of peace 89 00:05:27,956 --> 00:05:30,596 Speaker 2: was just learning to sleep, like learning to hold a 90 00:05:30,636 --> 00:05:34,195 Speaker 2: healthy sleep routine. I was amazed at how much my 91 00:05:34,276 --> 00:05:37,476 Speaker 2: relationship with my family, with the Lord, with my children, 92 00:05:37,676 --> 00:05:42,276 Speaker 2: with work was improved when I started exercising regularly. And 93 00:05:42,315 --> 00:05:44,716 Speaker 2: I think for a couple of years I carried this 94 00:05:44,916 --> 00:05:48,116 Speaker 2: guilt actually of like, oh, these are just life hacks, 95 00:05:48,876 --> 00:05:50,876 Speaker 2: and I shouldn't be putting too much stock in them. 96 00:05:50,916 --> 00:05:53,596 Speaker 2: I don't want to put my identity in my health, 97 00:05:53,956 --> 00:05:55,916 Speaker 2: particularly in working out. I don't want it to be 98 00:05:56,195 --> 00:06:00,436 Speaker 2: a vain endeavor. But this book is the product of, 99 00:06:00,956 --> 00:06:02,996 Speaker 2: I think a couple of years of the Lord saying 100 00:06:04,076 --> 00:06:07,156 Speaker 2: I made you with a body on purpose. I actually 101 00:06:07,236 --> 00:06:09,796 Speaker 2: liked the idea, like I created you like that on purpose. 102 00:06:09,876 --> 00:06:13,236 Speaker 2: And when you honor me in it, meaning honor your limits, 103 00:06:13,356 --> 00:06:16,276 Speaker 2: care for it, steward it like any other gift I've 104 00:06:16,276 --> 00:06:21,075 Speaker 2: given you, you will see shalom flourishing. And that's the 105 00:06:21,156 --> 00:06:24,636 Speaker 2: idea that the physical and the mental and the spiritual 106 00:06:24,836 --> 00:06:27,515 Speaker 2: are all intertwined, and it was me, not him, dividing 107 00:06:27,556 --> 00:06:30,556 Speaker 2: all this stuff up. And so I got a lot 108 00:06:30,596 --> 00:06:32,476 Speaker 2: more to say about the theology of that and how 109 00:06:32,476 --> 00:06:34,956 Speaker 2: that's grounded in the Bible, not just my experience, but 110 00:06:35,036 --> 00:06:37,636 Speaker 2: that is how the Word brought me to see not 111 00:06:37,676 --> 00:06:40,195 Speaker 2: just how much habits affect the heart, but how much 112 00:06:40,236 --> 00:06:42,156 Speaker 2: physical habits physical habits. 113 00:06:42,636 --> 00:06:45,596 Speaker 1: Yeah, that we think these are not spiritual activities, but 114 00:06:45,636 --> 00:06:49,836 Speaker 1: they are spiritual activities. You quoted Matthew Walker, PhD. Who 115 00:06:49,876 --> 00:06:52,476 Speaker 1: I really like him on sleep. The best bridge between 116 00:06:52,516 --> 00:06:56,036 Speaker 1: despair and hope is a good night's sleep. Yeah, And 117 00:06:56,076 --> 00:06:59,075 Speaker 1: really just the spirituality of Wow, you are just such. 118 00:06:59,195 --> 00:07:02,036 Speaker 1: It's really easier to be filled with the Holy Spirit 119 00:07:02,116 --> 00:07:04,755 Speaker 1: when you're working with the body who is rested instead 120 00:07:04,796 --> 00:07:08,116 Speaker 1: of one that is barely there, barely awake. I want 121 00:07:08,156 --> 00:07:11,876 Speaker 1: to go somewhere that you were headed, because in the 122 00:07:11,916 --> 00:07:15,476 Speaker 1: book you give this example of on one side you 123 00:07:15,516 --> 00:07:18,756 Speaker 1: can ignore the body, and then on the other side 124 00:07:18,756 --> 00:07:21,196 Speaker 1: you can idolize the body. And that's kind of what 125 00:07:21,236 --> 00:07:22,516 Speaker 1: you were getting at, Like, I didn't want to get 126 00:07:22,556 --> 00:07:24,476 Speaker 1: to this point where all this body stuff is working. 127 00:07:24,516 --> 00:07:26,436 Speaker 1: I'm going to make this an idol talk us through. 128 00:07:26,876 --> 00:07:29,196 Speaker 1: You know, neither side is good to ignore, It is 129 00:07:29,236 --> 00:07:30,836 Speaker 1: not good. To idolize, it isn't good. 130 00:07:31,636 --> 00:07:38,595 Speaker 2: Yes, So this comes from Genesis two seven where God 131 00:07:38,716 --> 00:07:43,556 Speaker 2: creates Adam and he says he took the dust of 132 00:07:43,636 --> 00:07:47,596 Speaker 2: the ground and breathed in the spirit of life, and 133 00:07:47,716 --> 00:07:50,756 Speaker 2: a living soul was born, sometimes a living human being. 134 00:07:51,356 --> 00:07:54,396 Speaker 2: Different translations are different, but in the Hebrew this is 135 00:07:54,436 --> 00:07:57,716 Speaker 2: the first use of the word soul in the Bible. 136 00:07:58,556 --> 00:08:01,155 Speaker 2: And this really challenged my categories as I was starting 137 00:08:01,156 --> 00:08:02,636 Speaker 2: to look at what is a body what is a 138 00:08:02,676 --> 00:08:05,076 Speaker 2: soul like? When I started this research a couple years ago, 139 00:08:05,516 --> 00:08:08,156 Speaker 2: I don't know what I meant by those terms. I 140 00:08:08,156 --> 00:08:10,556 Speaker 2: think I thought that the soul was like an invisible 141 00:08:10,636 --> 00:08:14,196 Speaker 2: spiritual core of like a human being. And I think 142 00:08:14,756 --> 00:08:16,116 Speaker 2: there's a lot of mystery here, but I think the 143 00:08:16,156 --> 00:08:18,476 Speaker 2: better use of the term is that a soul, a 144 00:08:18,516 --> 00:08:24,276 Speaker 2: living soul, is a divine combination of body and spirit 145 00:08:24,316 --> 00:08:26,796 Speaker 2: that you see in that verse. You get the dust 146 00:08:26,796 --> 00:08:29,196 Speaker 2: of the ground, that's organic matter, that's the word afar 147 00:08:29,516 --> 00:08:32,676 Speaker 2: in Hebrew, and then this spirit of life. You know, 148 00:08:32,796 --> 00:08:35,556 Speaker 2: we know these themes throughout the Bible that wherever God breathes, 149 00:08:35,596 --> 00:08:39,356 Speaker 2: wherever God is like life happens this is spiritual. You 150 00:08:39,356 --> 00:08:42,916 Speaker 2: combine those two things and you get this incredibly wonderful thing, 151 00:08:43,476 --> 00:08:46,396 Speaker 2: unique in all of God's creation, called a human being, 152 00:08:46,396 --> 00:08:51,076 Speaker 2: this divine combination of body and spirit. And when you 153 00:08:51,716 --> 00:08:55,956 Speaker 2: ignore the body, you're sort of idolizing the spiritual part 154 00:08:56,036 --> 00:08:59,036 Speaker 2: and saying, you know, really all I am is spirit, 155 00:08:59,196 --> 00:09:02,476 Speaker 2: which is not biblical, because Genesis two seven would say, no, no, 156 00:09:02,476 --> 00:09:05,236 Speaker 2: actually you're a divine combination of both. But when you 157 00:09:05,316 --> 00:09:09,876 Speaker 2: idolize the body, and this could be vanity through eating 158 00:09:09,956 --> 00:09:12,036 Speaker 2: or working out, or this could be a true philosophical 159 00:09:12,036 --> 00:09:15,396 Speaker 2: materialism where you think, actually, all the world, all it 160 00:09:15,476 --> 00:09:19,196 Speaker 2: is is atoms, there's just no religious or spiritual. Well, 161 00:09:19,236 --> 00:09:22,276 Speaker 2: that's saying Genesis two seven is not quite correct. It's 162 00:09:22,276 --> 00:09:24,956 Speaker 2: actually we're really just dust, you know. And people say 163 00:09:24,996 --> 00:09:28,396 Speaker 2: this stuff like it's pretty crazy to you know, but 164 00:09:28,756 --> 00:09:34,876 Speaker 2: Christianity gives this wonderful synthesis of these two things, and say, 165 00:09:35,316 --> 00:09:39,316 Speaker 2: don't be gnostic. That's the philosophical category for being somebody 166 00:09:39,316 --> 00:09:41,436 Speaker 2: who thinks only the spiritual matters and this body is 167 00:09:41,436 --> 00:09:43,436 Speaker 2: really what's weighing me downs. No, God made you with 168 00:09:43,436 --> 00:09:46,356 Speaker 2: the body on purpose, But don't be a materialist. The 169 00:09:46,396 --> 00:09:49,356 Speaker 2: spiritual is real, and so don't ignore, don't idalyze, rather 170 00:09:49,436 --> 00:09:52,876 Speaker 2: image God through the body. And you might say it's 171 00:09:52,956 --> 00:09:54,596 Speaker 2: nice that they all start with I, but what does 172 00:09:54,596 --> 00:09:56,676 Speaker 2: that mean? Well, imaging God through the body, we know 173 00:09:56,716 --> 00:09:59,316 Speaker 2: that we're the image of God, meaning we're the physical 174 00:09:59,316 --> 00:10:04,436 Speaker 2: representation of God. So one way to simplify this. There's 175 00:10:04,476 --> 00:10:05,996 Speaker 2: many ways to talk about the image of God. But 176 00:10:06,036 --> 00:10:07,916 Speaker 2: one way that I used to go out the book 177 00:10:07,956 --> 00:10:10,796 Speaker 2: is to say God is love, and the central call 178 00:10:10,836 --> 00:10:12,276 Speaker 2: of human beings is still in love God with a 179 00:10:12,276 --> 00:10:15,396 Speaker 2: love neighbor. So any questions we have with the body 180 00:10:15,836 --> 00:10:19,276 Speaker 2: can be answered through the tellos. The purpose is saying, 181 00:10:21,116 --> 00:10:24,956 Speaker 2: how is health helping us love God and love neighbor better? 182 00:10:25,396 --> 00:10:27,676 Speaker 2: How's exercise helping us love God and love neighbor better? 183 00:10:28,196 --> 00:10:32,596 Speaker 2: Because you could easily ignore exercise, you could also idolize it, 184 00:10:32,636 --> 00:10:34,676 Speaker 2: and neither of those would be good answers. The great 185 00:10:35,036 --> 00:10:37,196 Speaker 2: question of your life is how can you move your 186 00:10:37,196 --> 00:10:39,796 Speaker 2: body in such a way, Not that your health span 187 00:10:40,316 --> 00:10:44,036 Speaker 2: or your lifespan or anything else is maximized, but your 188 00:10:44,276 --> 00:10:46,836 Speaker 2: love span. How does it help you love God and 189 00:10:46,916 --> 00:10:49,156 Speaker 2: love neighbor. And as you know from reading it early 190 00:10:49,276 --> 00:10:51,676 Speaker 2: every chapter in the book asked that question is how 191 00:10:51,716 --> 00:10:54,316 Speaker 2: can we love God and love neighbor more through using 192 00:10:54,356 --> 00:10:56,836 Speaker 2: our body in this way you. 193 00:10:56,756 --> 00:10:59,196 Speaker 1: Talk about, can you get down on the floor and 194 00:10:59,316 --> 00:11:02,116 Speaker 1: up to play? Can you do strenuous get yard work 195 00:11:02,156 --> 00:11:04,956 Speaker 1: without injury? Can you enjoy pick up sports you know 196 00:11:05,036 --> 00:11:07,716 Speaker 1: with friends? Are you strong enough to help a friend move? 197 00:11:07,876 --> 00:11:10,436 Speaker 1: Can you dance at a friend's wedding? Can you support 198 00:11:10,476 --> 00:11:14,916 Speaker 1: an elderly parent to walk? It is quite a realization 199 00:11:15,076 --> 00:11:17,076 Speaker 1: to think, wait a minute, this isn't just this personal 200 00:11:17,116 --> 00:11:18,716 Speaker 1: thing of like, well, it's my body. I'll do with 201 00:11:18,756 --> 00:11:21,276 Speaker 1: it what I want. But if I'm loving God and 202 00:11:21,316 --> 00:11:23,876 Speaker 1: loving neighbor with this with my body, then oh, now 203 00:11:23,916 --> 00:11:26,796 Speaker 1: I have a whole new motivation to do the exercise 204 00:11:26,836 --> 00:11:28,716 Speaker 1: because I do want to be able to help my dad, 205 00:11:28,916 --> 00:11:31,156 Speaker 1: to help him stand up when he needs that. I 206 00:11:31,196 --> 00:11:32,716 Speaker 1: do want to be able to get on the floor 207 00:11:32,756 --> 00:11:35,396 Speaker 1: and play with a grandchild someday, like like, I want 208 00:11:35,396 --> 00:11:37,876 Speaker 1: to do those things to love my neighbor. Right, Okay, 209 00:11:38,116 --> 00:11:40,836 Speaker 1: let's get real. We are sitting with a bag of 210 00:11:40,916 --> 00:11:44,076 Speaker 1: vanilla wafers. I would be sitting with the bag of 211 00:11:44,116 --> 00:11:48,196 Speaker 1: Oreo cookies and you just can't eat one. So we're 212 00:11:48,196 --> 00:11:51,316 Speaker 1: talking about this, this sounds great, like, yes, let's honor 213 00:11:51,356 --> 00:11:54,516 Speaker 1: God with our bodies. Yes, let's exercise. But oh, my goodness, 214 00:11:54,596 --> 00:11:57,236 Speaker 1: I've just listened to the podcast and I'm headed to 215 00:11:57,276 --> 00:11:59,556 Speaker 1: coffee and then I'm going to have the snack that's 216 00:11:59,596 --> 00:12:03,596 Speaker 1: super sugary, and so take us there. Do you actually 217 00:12:03,636 --> 00:12:06,356 Speaker 1: like the vanilla wafers? And how do you make yourself stop? 218 00:12:08,236 --> 00:12:10,676 Speaker 2: There's a lot of risky chapters in this book because 219 00:12:10,716 --> 00:12:13,036 Speaker 2: anytime you start talking about the body, I mean, I say, 220 00:12:13,036 --> 00:12:16,716 Speaker 2: there's so much shame that we have, so much confusion, 221 00:12:16,716 --> 00:12:19,356 Speaker 2: that we have, just so much failure that we have. 222 00:12:19,476 --> 00:12:22,596 Speaker 2: I mean, if when I think back over my life, 223 00:12:22,716 --> 00:12:28,116 Speaker 2: you know, so many of my spiritual struggles were embodied struggles. 224 00:12:28,116 --> 00:12:30,316 Speaker 2: And you know, I, as I said, I used to 225 00:12:30,316 --> 00:12:32,356 Speaker 2: have separate categories for this, but now I see, Oh, 226 00:12:32,716 --> 00:12:35,516 Speaker 2: figuring out how to honor God in your body means 227 00:12:35,556 --> 00:12:40,276 Speaker 2: figuring out how to take lust and turn it into love, 228 00:12:40,876 --> 00:12:43,276 Speaker 2: how to take over desire for food and turn it 229 00:12:43,316 --> 00:12:46,756 Speaker 2: into healthy desire for God and health. And so the 230 00:12:46,796 --> 00:12:49,916 Speaker 2: food chapter in this book was particularly hard to write 231 00:12:49,916 --> 00:12:51,796 Speaker 2: because you know, I and so many other people have 232 00:12:51,836 --> 00:12:54,156 Speaker 2: hang ups over this, and I do want to say 233 00:12:54,276 --> 00:12:58,236 Speaker 2: I do. Okay. One thing that became really clear as 234 00:12:58,276 --> 00:13:00,636 Speaker 2: I was research and writing this book is the revelation 235 00:13:00,756 --> 00:13:04,796 Speaker 2: that some people's metabolism hides their sins. And I would 236 00:13:04,876 --> 00:13:08,036 Speaker 2: raise my hand there. I really struggle with self control, 237 00:13:08,436 --> 00:13:10,236 Speaker 2: but you wouldn't know it from looking at my body. 238 00:13:10,676 --> 00:13:14,396 Speaker 2: And some people's metabolism hides their virtues, like they're really 239 00:13:14,436 --> 00:13:17,996 Speaker 2: really working hard and their body doesn't look like what 240 00:13:18,116 --> 00:13:21,716 Speaker 2: they what they wanted to look like. Right, And what 241 00:13:21,756 --> 00:13:23,716 Speaker 2: we just said, I just want to remind everybody of 242 00:13:24,436 --> 00:13:28,876 Speaker 2: we're trying to pivot away from this idealization of the 243 00:13:28,876 --> 00:13:31,756 Speaker 2: body where when you talk about eating, you have to 244 00:13:31,796 --> 00:13:36,156 Speaker 2: talk about body image, and we're trying to say, okay, 245 00:13:36,676 --> 00:13:39,556 Speaker 2: body image is the mirror, right, it's the idea of 246 00:13:39,636 --> 00:13:43,196 Speaker 2: like thinking through eating in terms of how do I 247 00:13:43,236 --> 00:13:45,796 Speaker 2: feel about myself and how do I look in the mirror? 248 00:13:46,316 --> 00:13:48,756 Speaker 2: Remember that we're going to image God. So that's moving 249 00:13:48,756 --> 00:13:50,756 Speaker 2: from a mirror to a window and saying how am 250 00:13:50,756 --> 00:13:53,396 Speaker 2: I looking through my body to how I can love, 251 00:13:54,036 --> 00:13:57,476 Speaker 2: not at my body, to how I look And when 252 00:13:57,476 --> 00:14:00,236 Speaker 2: you think about that, what we're really talking about is 253 00:14:01,476 --> 00:14:05,236 Speaker 2: how is eating changing how you feel and act in 254 00:14:05,276 --> 00:14:07,396 Speaker 2: the world. And that for me is really the center. 255 00:14:07,436 --> 00:14:09,316 Speaker 2: So there's I tell a story at the beginning of 256 00:14:09,316 --> 00:14:12,196 Speaker 2: the chapter that you're referencing, which is being in high 257 00:14:12,236 --> 00:14:16,996 Speaker 2: school alone with the box of vanilla lapers, And this 258 00:14:17,036 --> 00:14:19,236 Speaker 2: was just one of my earliest memories of realizing that 259 00:14:19,276 --> 00:14:21,876 Speaker 2: I didn't quite have control over myself. And I think 260 00:14:21,876 --> 00:14:23,516 Speaker 2: a lot of people relate when it comes to eating. 261 00:14:23,596 --> 00:14:26,036 Speaker 2: We're like, yeah, I'm not sure if I'm driving the 262 00:14:26,076 --> 00:14:28,836 Speaker 2: ship or not. And one of the things I want 263 00:14:28,836 --> 00:14:31,396 Speaker 2: to help people identify is that in a world of 264 00:14:32,316 --> 00:14:38,076 Speaker 2: ultra process, very refined, sugary, salty, fatty foods, it is 265 00:14:38,116 --> 00:14:43,396 Speaker 2: super hard to control yourself because you're not alone here. 266 00:14:43,436 --> 00:14:47,876 Speaker 2: You are in the presence of food companies that you 267 00:14:47,916 --> 00:14:50,316 Speaker 2: know are making things that are addictive, and they are 268 00:14:50,356 --> 00:14:55,676 Speaker 2: addictive through dopamine cycles, as in, you know, your dopamine 269 00:14:55,676 --> 00:14:58,596 Speaker 2: spikes wildly when you eat something that salty or that's sugary. 270 00:14:59,196 --> 00:15:02,076 Speaker 2: And I remind people in the book that dopamine works 271 00:15:02,316 --> 00:15:05,356 Speaker 2: in a plain pain pleasure balance, as in, you get 272 00:15:05,356 --> 00:15:08,756 Speaker 2: this huge spike of pleasure from eating all these vanilla wafers, 273 00:15:08,996 --> 00:15:11,876 Speaker 2: and then the brain likes homeostasis. It doesn't like spikes 274 00:15:11,876 --> 00:15:15,916 Speaker 2: so it actually creates pain and discomfort and shoots you 275 00:15:16,316 --> 00:15:20,836 Speaker 2: into this feeling that we know so well of like oh, regret, shame. 276 00:15:21,596 --> 00:15:24,756 Speaker 2: And so we bounce back and forth between this pain 277 00:15:24,836 --> 00:15:29,196 Speaker 2: and pleasure, right, indulgence and shame. And what's amazing about 278 00:15:29,236 --> 00:15:31,476 Speaker 2: the good news of the Bible is that you weren't 279 00:15:31,516 --> 00:15:34,916 Speaker 2: made for that right, that you know that's not right 280 00:15:34,996 --> 00:15:36,756 Speaker 2: what the Bible does say. And this is actually very 281 00:15:36,756 --> 00:15:39,156 Speaker 2: close to the last person I said to Genesis two nine. 282 00:15:39,276 --> 00:15:41,636 Speaker 2: There's so much stuff about the body of Genesis's so helpful. 283 00:15:42,836 --> 00:15:45,356 Speaker 2: Jesus two nine says that the trees in the garden 284 00:15:45,396 --> 00:15:48,516 Speaker 2: were good, beautiful to look at, and good for food. 285 00:15:48,796 --> 00:15:52,276 Speaker 2: There's this dual aspect to creation that we're supposed to 286 00:15:52,356 --> 00:15:54,996 Speaker 2: delight in it, but we're also supposed to depend on it, 287 00:15:55,036 --> 00:15:58,636 Speaker 2: like eating is a feature, not a flaw, of being created. 288 00:15:59,316 --> 00:16:03,756 Speaker 2: And so I offer people this idea of moving out 289 00:16:03,796 --> 00:16:06,796 Speaker 2: of the indulgence and shame cycle to move it like 290 00:16:06,876 --> 00:16:09,596 Speaker 2: trade and indulgence for dependence, like you need to depend 291 00:16:09,676 --> 00:16:12,516 Speaker 2: on God, not just indulgent creation, but you're also supposed 292 00:16:12,516 --> 00:16:15,556 Speaker 2: to delight in it, not feel shame about it. And 293 00:16:15,636 --> 00:16:17,556 Speaker 2: if you think about that and the diagrams in the 294 00:16:17,556 --> 00:16:20,316 Speaker 2: book are really going to help you here, because it's 295 00:16:20,316 --> 00:16:24,356 Speaker 2: always two sides of the pendulum. Fasting and feasting are 296 00:16:24,396 --> 00:16:29,396 Speaker 2: the two biblical traditions for cultivating these virtues. I said, 297 00:16:29,596 --> 00:16:32,236 Speaker 2: when you fast, you cultivate dependence. And it's not only 298 00:16:32,276 --> 00:16:36,396 Speaker 2: good for you physically, it's tremendous for you emotionally and 299 00:16:36,436 --> 00:16:40,676 Speaker 2: spiritually because you're resetting dopamine. But you're also practicing something 300 00:16:41,276 --> 00:16:42,876 Speaker 2: that is true of you, that you were made to 301 00:16:42,916 --> 00:16:46,276 Speaker 2: depend And it's hard to really know that and learn 302 00:16:46,276 --> 00:16:48,676 Speaker 2: it until you feel it, which is why now I 303 00:16:48,756 --> 00:16:51,956 Speaker 2: realize why fasting was so helpful for my emotional health. 304 00:16:52,076 --> 00:16:54,516 Speaker 2: But on the other side of that, you're not supposed 305 00:16:54,556 --> 00:16:56,836 Speaker 2: to live and fasting. I mean, we know this. Jesus 306 00:16:56,956 --> 00:16:59,196 Speaker 2: was like, don't fast when the bride cream is year. 307 00:16:59,196 --> 00:17:01,396 Speaker 2: That's why my disciples aren't fasting. He was accused for 308 00:17:01,476 --> 00:17:05,156 Speaker 2: feasting too much, not fasting too much. And the trajectory 309 00:17:05,196 --> 00:17:09,196 Speaker 2: of the biblical narrative is to a future of a 310 00:17:09,236 --> 00:17:11,596 Speaker 2: wedding feast of the land, not to like heaven where 311 00:17:11,596 --> 00:17:14,836 Speaker 2: we're all super spiritual and we do the spiritual disciplines 312 00:17:14,836 --> 00:17:16,676 Speaker 2: all the time. It's actually like where we feast together. 313 00:17:16,756 --> 00:17:20,116 Speaker 2: So those aren't cheap days. Those are rhythms where you're 314 00:17:20,156 --> 00:17:23,715 Speaker 2: celebrating creation and leaning into food. And those are two 315 00:17:23,955 --> 00:17:26,436 Speaker 2: of the disciplines that I want to offer people. Learn 316 00:17:26,515 --> 00:17:30,876 Speaker 2: to fast and really cultivate dependence. Learn to feast and 317 00:17:30,876 --> 00:17:33,916 Speaker 2: not feel guilty, like really cultivate delight. But in between 318 00:17:33,955 --> 00:17:36,876 Speaker 2: those two you need to learn the regular discipline of 319 00:17:37,316 --> 00:17:41,955 Speaker 2: ordinary fare, which is where not too much, not too little, 320 00:17:42,156 --> 00:17:44,355 Speaker 2: the biblical ethic of don't be mastered by anything. The 321 00:17:44,396 --> 00:17:46,595 Speaker 2: proverbs get really serious. They say, like you know, if 322 00:17:46,636 --> 00:17:48,355 Speaker 2: you put a knife to your throat, if you're at 323 00:17:48,356 --> 00:17:50,515 Speaker 2: a king's table and you're over desiring, It's like it 324 00:17:50,596 --> 00:17:54,796 Speaker 2: gets there's concepts all throughout the the Bible of be careful, 325 00:17:54,955 --> 00:17:59,236 Speaker 2: like in a normal day, be careful, so you got 326 00:17:59,235 --> 00:18:01,035 Speaker 2: your fasting at your feasting. But in the between, just 327 00:18:01,076 --> 00:18:04,036 Speaker 2: develop this ethic. And that to me is a spiritual discipline, 328 00:18:04,035 --> 00:18:06,715 Speaker 2: not a health hack, because I'm asking, all right, how 329 00:18:06,715 --> 00:18:09,716 Speaker 2: am I going to control my desires and a better way, 330 00:18:09,715 --> 00:18:12,676 Speaker 2: But that is steward them into a healthy place where 331 00:18:12,755 --> 00:18:16,955 Speaker 2: I'm moving in between biblical paradigms and not this huge 332 00:18:16,995 --> 00:18:19,115 Speaker 2: pendulum swing of dopamine. 333 00:18:19,596 --> 00:18:21,156 Speaker 1: On the other side of this break, we're going to 334 00:18:21,196 --> 00:18:23,355 Speaker 1: talk about technology, but we're going to take a short 335 00:18:23,396 --> 00:18:28,236 Speaker 1: break to hear from our sponsor, and we're back. So 336 00:18:28,356 --> 00:18:31,955 Speaker 1: God makes these foods that don't cause spikes, right, And 337 00:18:31,995 --> 00:18:35,156 Speaker 1: then isn't that interesting that technology? We pick up our technology, 338 00:18:35,196 --> 00:18:38,156 Speaker 1: and that's pumping dopamine in our body, And then we 339 00:18:38,436 --> 00:18:41,636 Speaker 1: pick up food and that pumps dopamine in our body. 340 00:18:42,035 --> 00:18:44,556 Speaker 1: And I can't help but think, you know, spiritually, how 341 00:18:44,636 --> 00:18:48,515 Speaker 1: Satan wants to attack our bodies right, to make us sick, 342 00:18:48,596 --> 00:18:51,596 Speaker 1: to make us ill, so that we will grow dependent 343 00:18:51,676 --> 00:18:54,276 Speaker 1: on these false things and not God. And how we 344 00:18:54,275 --> 00:18:57,756 Speaker 1: were kind of attacked on all sides. Talk about technology 345 00:18:57,796 --> 00:19:02,355 Speaker 1: because I know that. Let's go here. You tell a 346 00:19:02,515 --> 00:19:04,995 Speaker 1: story in the book about how you dropped your boys 347 00:19:05,035 --> 00:19:07,316 Speaker 1: off at school, like the carpool line and the car 348 00:19:07,436 --> 00:19:09,276 Speaker 1: pulled right in front of you. Tell that story because 349 00:19:09,316 --> 00:19:11,916 Speaker 1: I think that's so helpful about technology. 350 00:19:11,916 --> 00:19:15,475 Speaker 2: This is a big realization for me. I was driving 351 00:19:15,475 --> 00:19:18,116 Speaker 2: my boys' school one morning and somebody cut me off, 352 00:19:18,156 --> 00:19:22,116 Speaker 2: and I like, got my glare you know ready, and 353 00:19:23,475 --> 00:19:25,236 Speaker 2: you always do this, So you pull off and you're like, 354 00:19:24,916 --> 00:19:27,756 Speaker 2: who would do such a thing, and as I started 355 00:19:27,755 --> 00:19:31,475 Speaker 2: to pull up at the red light, I recognized the 356 00:19:31,596 --> 00:19:34,396 Speaker 2: child in the back seat was one of my kids friends, 357 00:19:34,396 --> 00:19:35,995 Speaker 2: and I was like, oh, my gosh, I know that parent. 358 00:19:36,515 --> 00:19:39,156 Speaker 2: And what I noticed about myself in that moment was 359 00:19:39,275 --> 00:19:41,516 Speaker 2: not like, oh now I'm not going to tell them 360 00:19:41,515 --> 00:19:45,156 Speaker 2: off because I know this person. That was certainly true, 361 00:19:45,436 --> 00:19:48,436 Speaker 2: but what I realized is I went from thinking how 362 00:19:48,556 --> 00:19:52,636 Speaker 2: dare this person like what a selfish person like, to thinking, oh, 363 00:19:52,916 --> 00:19:54,835 Speaker 2: you know, they're probably just in a rush like me. 364 00:19:54,955 --> 00:19:58,715 Speaker 2: I started making excuses for them, believing the best in them, 365 00:19:59,156 --> 00:20:03,076 Speaker 2: And what I realized was that an embodied human being 366 00:20:04,116 --> 00:20:08,075 Speaker 2: changed how I felt about that person, and when it 367 00:20:08,116 --> 00:20:10,955 Speaker 2: was a disembodied representation of a human being just a 368 00:20:10,995 --> 00:20:13,836 Speaker 2: car in front of me, I made all sorts of 369 00:20:13,916 --> 00:20:20,595 Speaker 2: judgments about that person. I would later hear somebody express 370 00:20:20,916 --> 00:20:26,235 Speaker 2: how social media, intentionally or not, is basically designed to 371 00:20:26,275 --> 00:20:29,876 Speaker 2: do this. It is think about the bathroom walls at 372 00:20:29,916 --> 00:20:33,475 Speaker 2: a arrest stop or in your high school, like the 373 00:20:33,515 --> 00:20:36,275 Speaker 2: ways that we talk about people on the bathroom walls 374 00:20:36,715 --> 00:20:40,196 Speaker 2: are what they are because we are not face to face, 375 00:20:40,475 --> 00:20:45,196 Speaker 2: We are not there chat rooms comments, you know, social 376 00:20:45,235 --> 00:20:48,836 Speaker 2: media posts are great I think it's helpful for people 377 00:20:48,876 --> 00:20:51,396 Speaker 2: to think about them as sort of the modern bathroom walls, 378 00:20:52,076 --> 00:20:54,836 Speaker 2: which is like, you don't talk this way to actual people, 379 00:20:54,876 --> 00:20:59,556 Speaker 2: you talk this way to disembody user names, because you're 380 00:20:59,676 --> 00:21:03,275 Speaker 2: not actually encountering this people. And so there's a lot 381 00:21:03,316 --> 00:21:04,955 Speaker 2: of places we could go from here, but I would 382 00:21:04,955 --> 00:21:07,036 Speaker 2: just say one of the most helpful things I think 383 00:21:07,076 --> 00:21:11,275 Speaker 2: for people to understand is that as you move up 384 00:21:11,316 --> 00:21:15,316 Speaker 2: the ladder of embodyment, your ability, your capacity, and your 385 00:21:15,356 --> 00:21:18,196 Speaker 2: willingness to love somebody increases. And that should be a 386 00:21:18,235 --> 00:21:21,955 Speaker 2: signal that we were made to live embodied lives. And 387 00:21:21,995 --> 00:21:26,596 Speaker 2: it's certainly a call to move towards embodiment because my thesis, 388 00:21:27,196 --> 00:21:30,755 Speaker 2: and I believe it's biblical, is that the more embodied 389 00:21:30,796 --> 00:21:33,156 Speaker 2: we are, the more loving we are, and the less 390 00:21:33,196 --> 00:21:37,196 Speaker 2: embodied we get, the less loving we get. And if 391 00:21:37,196 --> 00:21:39,476 Speaker 2: we're called to a life of love of God and neighbor, 392 00:21:39,995 --> 00:21:42,035 Speaker 2: then that actually is were called to a life of 393 00:21:42,076 --> 00:21:43,036 Speaker 2: embodiment too. 394 00:21:44,556 --> 00:21:46,875 Speaker 1: And I think maybe fifty years ago we wouldn't have 395 00:21:46,916 --> 00:21:50,355 Speaker 1: had to have this conversation because everything was embodied. But 396 00:21:50,676 --> 00:21:53,275 Speaker 1: now when our kids are on technology, we are on 397 00:21:53,316 --> 00:21:55,995 Speaker 1: technology to realize wait, a minute, Like you write in 398 00:21:55,995 --> 00:21:59,236 Speaker 1: the book, the body teaches the soul, and how the 399 00:21:59,275 --> 00:22:04,955 Speaker 1: thumb swipes is very much connected to what the heart loves. Yes, 400 00:22:05,035 --> 00:22:07,315 Speaker 1: And for us to realize, like, wait, these things that 401 00:22:07,356 --> 00:22:11,995 Speaker 1: we're doing with disembodied talking to people that are not there, 402 00:22:12,035 --> 00:22:14,876 Speaker 1: whether it's truly AI or it's just someone but you 403 00:22:14,916 --> 00:22:17,596 Speaker 1: don't know who it is, you treat them different than 404 00:22:17,596 --> 00:22:20,355 Speaker 1: you would treat someone if they were really embodied right 405 00:22:20,396 --> 00:22:23,315 Speaker 1: in front of you. Yes, And to be really careful 406 00:22:23,676 --> 00:22:26,275 Speaker 1: to let your body teach you, like would I say 407 00:22:26,275 --> 00:22:28,035 Speaker 1: the same thing if I was face to face with 408 00:22:28,076 --> 00:22:30,315 Speaker 1: this person, Like, that's a really good metric. 409 00:22:30,876 --> 00:22:33,996 Speaker 2: Yes, And I think half of this is how you're 410 00:22:34,035 --> 00:22:36,275 Speaker 2: treating and loving other people. And this is really important. 411 00:22:36,275 --> 00:22:39,556 Speaker 2: Obviously we know that we're in the modern world. We're 412 00:22:39,636 --> 00:22:44,555 Speaker 2: like at a historic levels of disagreement, where at historic 413 00:22:44,636 --> 00:22:49,636 Speaker 2: levels of division, And undoubtedly this is due to our 414 00:22:49,715 --> 00:22:53,236 Speaker 2: dialogue moving more online. Now this is not usual, right, 415 00:22:53,275 --> 00:22:57,596 Speaker 2: Like if you read newspapers from the eighteen hundreds, people 416 00:22:57,676 --> 00:23:00,676 Speaker 2: were ripping each other the way our trip each other now. 417 00:23:01,035 --> 00:23:03,835 Speaker 2: But we pour gasoline on the fire and so we 418 00:23:03,995 --> 00:23:06,995 Speaker 2: have a technological problem. But I also want to note 419 00:23:07,676 --> 00:23:12,076 Speaker 2: that there's a mirror here too, the way you feel 420 00:23:12,876 --> 00:23:18,356 Speaker 2: after an afternoon scrolling Instagram or TikTok instead of doing 421 00:23:18,356 --> 00:23:20,075 Speaker 2: what you felt you ought to be doing around the 422 00:23:20,076 --> 00:23:22,676 Speaker 2: office or the house. You feel like that for a reason. 423 00:23:22,715 --> 00:23:25,196 Speaker 2: You're You're not made to feel that disoriented. You're not 424 00:23:25,196 --> 00:23:26,955 Speaker 2: made to feel that jealous. You're not made to feel 425 00:23:26,995 --> 00:23:29,515 Speaker 2: that confused about what's true in the world. And a 426 00:23:29,515 --> 00:23:32,396 Speaker 2: lot of this I think I don't love the world 427 00:23:32,836 --> 00:23:34,916 Speaker 2: with the word self care because it has a lot 428 00:23:34,916 --> 00:23:40,995 Speaker 2: of problematic connoctations and misinterpretations. But I would just say, 429 00:23:41,116 --> 00:23:44,756 Speaker 2: you are not honoring your own body when you sit 430 00:23:45,235 --> 00:23:48,876 Speaker 2: hunched over a screen, just swiping with your thumb. There's 431 00:23:48,916 --> 00:23:51,715 Speaker 2: a reason you feel like you do, and that's because 432 00:23:51,755 --> 00:23:55,755 Speaker 2: you are. You're moving away from embodiment. You're moving towards 433 00:23:55,755 --> 00:23:58,916 Speaker 2: a disembodied world of comparison and desire. And it is 434 00:23:59,116 --> 00:24:02,315 Speaker 2: very much like sitting with that box of oreos or 435 00:24:02,356 --> 00:24:05,755 Speaker 2: sitting with that box of wine. You're you're not going 436 00:24:05,796 --> 00:24:08,676 Speaker 2: to feel good because you weren't meant to treat your 437 00:24:08,715 --> 00:24:11,115 Speaker 2: body like this. And I think that we think this 438 00:24:11,235 --> 00:24:13,555 Speaker 2: is just mind stuff, Like you know, I shouldn't be 439 00:24:13,636 --> 00:24:16,436 Speaker 2: thinking about this and that's true. Like there's a lot 440 00:24:16,436 --> 00:24:18,235 Speaker 2: of stuff you shouldn't be thinking about, Like you seeing 441 00:24:18,556 --> 00:24:22,316 Speaker 2: image and messages on the internet that are just not fruitful, 442 00:24:22,356 --> 00:24:25,035 Speaker 2: not excellent, not good, not trustworthy, and not praiseworthy, all 443 00:24:25,035 --> 00:24:27,116 Speaker 2: the things that the investment tells us, like, don't think 444 00:24:27,116 --> 00:24:29,916 Speaker 2: about those things. Yeah, you're also literally with your body 445 00:24:31,275 --> 00:24:34,556 Speaker 2: doing like putting it in unhealthy positions and putting your 446 00:24:34,596 --> 00:24:36,795 Speaker 2: brain and like you're not caring for your brain and 447 00:24:36,876 --> 00:24:39,196 Speaker 2: the same way you want your body through food, you 448 00:24:39,275 --> 00:24:42,635 Speaker 2: want to care for your brain through healthy interactions. And 449 00:24:42,676 --> 00:24:46,275 Speaker 2: it's unsurprising that you feel so much better when you 450 00:24:46,356 --> 00:24:48,595 Speaker 2: go hang out with a group of people in person. 451 00:24:49,275 --> 00:24:52,916 Speaker 2: You usually don't come back full of rage, jealousy, and anger, 452 00:24:53,316 --> 00:24:55,516 Speaker 2: but spend a couple of minutes online you will come 453 00:24:55,556 --> 00:24:58,555 Speaker 2: back with your anger. And so that's part of my 454 00:24:58,636 --> 00:25:01,955 Speaker 2: push that chapter is to say move up the ladder 455 00:25:01,995 --> 00:25:06,315 Speaker 2: of embodyment. I mean, I use technology a lot, but 456 00:25:06,356 --> 00:25:08,036 Speaker 2: one of my recommendations is, if you can move from 457 00:25:08,035 --> 00:25:10,235 Speaker 2: a texto voice memom, do it. If you can move 458 00:25:10,235 --> 00:25:11,795 Speaker 2: from a voice memorial call, do it. If you can 459 00:25:11,836 --> 00:25:13,715 Speaker 2: move from a call do a video call, do it. 460 00:25:13,715 --> 00:25:15,716 Speaker 2: If you can move from a video call to an 461 00:25:15,755 --> 00:25:18,275 Speaker 2: in person, chat to an in person, sit down for 462 00:25:18,275 --> 00:25:21,196 Speaker 2: a long time, perod the time. All those things are 463 00:25:21,275 --> 00:25:24,075 Speaker 2: going to improve your life, and beware of that lower 464 00:25:24,235 --> 00:25:27,315 Speaker 2: level of involl love that the lowest possible level is 465 00:25:27,676 --> 00:25:28,715 Speaker 2: social media. 466 00:25:28,836 --> 00:25:31,356 Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that. Like move up, Like don't stay there, 467 00:25:31,515 --> 00:25:31,916 Speaker 1: move up. 468 00:25:31,995 --> 00:25:34,596 Speaker 2: Yeah, Okay, there's so many uses. Are good. Just keep moving? 469 00:25:34,796 --> 00:25:38,756 Speaker 1: Yes you know, yes, someone's listening and they're like, Okay, 470 00:25:38,916 --> 00:25:41,315 Speaker 1: I know I need to get back to exercise. I 471 00:25:41,396 --> 00:25:43,676 Speaker 1: know I need to get back moving, but I just 472 00:25:44,475 --> 00:25:46,955 Speaker 1: I don't have time, I don't have the money. Whatever 473 00:25:46,995 --> 00:25:49,316 Speaker 1: it is. Talk to us about how you got back 474 00:25:49,356 --> 00:25:51,955 Speaker 1: into this at thirty four years old and told yourself 475 00:25:51,995 --> 00:25:54,235 Speaker 1: I can't do this, but somehow you did. So give 476 00:25:54,316 --> 00:25:55,235 Speaker 1: us that inspiration. 477 00:25:58,035 --> 00:25:59,596 Speaker 2: I'm trying to think of how to tell this story, 478 00:25:59,916 --> 00:26:01,876 Speaker 2: that story in the shortest version possible. 479 00:26:01,916 --> 00:26:03,035 Speaker 1: But I. 480 00:26:04,715 --> 00:26:08,156 Speaker 2: Basically found myself starting my own law firm in my 481 00:26:08,235 --> 00:26:11,636 Speaker 2: mid thirties, and one of the things I realized is 482 00:26:11,636 --> 00:26:13,555 Speaker 2: that I want exercise to be a part of my 483 00:26:13,676 --> 00:26:17,235 Speaker 2: routine because my body was struggling so much from sitting 484 00:26:17,275 --> 00:26:19,515 Speaker 2: at a keyboard all day. You know. I call it 485 00:26:19,556 --> 00:26:21,876 Speaker 2: the t Rex position where I'm just literally this is 486 00:26:21,916 --> 00:26:25,835 Speaker 2: my life. And I was working in a coffee shop. 487 00:26:25,955 --> 00:26:29,955 Speaker 2: I heard all this banging next door, and I was 488 00:26:29,995 --> 00:26:31,956 Speaker 2: literally was like starting my law firm from a coffee shop. 489 00:26:31,955 --> 00:26:34,316 Speaker 2: I didn't even have an office yet. And I walked 490 00:26:34,316 --> 00:26:35,795 Speaker 2: out to here where this banging was and it was 491 00:26:35,836 --> 00:26:38,355 Speaker 2: this gym, Like there was this guy lifting weights in 492 00:26:38,396 --> 00:26:41,116 Speaker 2: the gym, and I thought, my gosh, if I can 493 00:26:42,035 --> 00:26:44,035 Speaker 2: make this a part of my routine, great. The only 494 00:26:44,116 --> 00:26:47,676 Speaker 2: problem was is it turns out thinking about and wanting 495 00:26:47,676 --> 00:26:49,995 Speaker 2: to exercise is way different than actually doing it. Like 496 00:26:50,436 --> 00:26:53,196 Speaker 2: actually doing it hurts, It's really hard. Why so many 497 00:26:53,196 --> 00:26:55,636 Speaker 2: of us quit? And I remember in the first couple 498 00:26:55,636 --> 00:26:57,436 Speaker 2: of classes I was going to this gym, I kept 499 00:26:57,475 --> 00:27:00,156 Speaker 2: just quitting mid workout. I would go get water and 500 00:27:00,196 --> 00:27:02,356 Speaker 2: take a break. It was at least starting to exercise, 501 00:27:02,436 --> 00:27:05,516 Speaker 2: but I was like, probably two or three weeks in, 502 00:27:05,515 --> 00:27:08,356 Speaker 2: in one workout, I'm about to like quit mid workout 503 00:27:08,436 --> 00:27:12,436 Speaker 2: and get water, and the coach comes up to me. 504 00:27:12,836 --> 00:27:14,755 Speaker 2: His name is Ryan, he's still my coach. I actually 505 00:27:14,755 --> 00:27:17,836 Speaker 2: was hanging out with him this morning and he was like, hey, 506 00:27:18,076 --> 00:27:19,716 Speaker 2: you just pick up the bar one more time. We're 507 00:27:19,755 --> 00:27:21,356 Speaker 2: doing this exercise. Way to pick up the bar over 508 00:27:21,396 --> 00:27:24,076 Speaker 2: I head like a million times and I was like, Okay, 509 00:27:24,116 --> 00:27:25,116 Speaker 2: I do it one more time and I was like, 510 00:27:25,116 --> 00:27:26,475 Speaker 2: can I get water now? I was like, no, just 511 00:27:26,515 --> 00:27:29,156 Speaker 2: pick it up one more time. Okay, we did it 512 00:27:29,156 --> 00:27:30,796 Speaker 2: one more time, and there was He's going to stay 513 00:27:30,836 --> 00:27:33,836 Speaker 2: here and I still eight minutes left of this workout, 514 00:27:33,876 --> 00:27:35,555 Speaker 2: and I was like, oh my gosh, he's not leaving. 515 00:27:35,676 --> 00:27:41,755 Speaker 2: This Dude's pushed me. And I remember being collapsed on 516 00:27:41,796 --> 00:27:45,955 Speaker 2: the floor after this, feeling exhausted in my body, but 517 00:27:46,035 --> 00:27:48,636 Speaker 2: kind of satisfied, like, oh, the wall that I thought 518 00:27:48,995 --> 00:27:50,836 Speaker 2: was the wall was actually not the wall. I had 519 00:27:50,876 --> 00:27:54,955 Speaker 2: more to do beyond me, and that was I always 520 00:27:54,955 --> 00:27:56,475 Speaker 2: tell people, like, you could put that on a poster 521 00:27:56,515 --> 00:27:58,835 Speaker 2: of the gym, that would be nice. But for me, 522 00:27:58,916 --> 00:28:01,036 Speaker 2: it was the next day that actually changed my life. 523 00:28:01,076 --> 00:28:03,475 Speaker 2: I was helping my kid. He was in his high chair. 524 00:28:04,116 --> 00:28:06,436 Speaker 2: The next morning. He knocked his milk off the high 525 00:28:06,515 --> 00:28:08,076 Speaker 2: chair and I bend down to pick it up. I'm 526 00:28:08,116 --> 00:28:11,436 Speaker 2: so sore from the workout the day before, and I 527 00:28:11,515 --> 00:28:13,876 Speaker 2: put it on the his high chair and then I 528 00:28:13,876 --> 00:28:16,436 Speaker 2: walked to do something in the kitchen and he knocks 529 00:28:16,475 --> 00:28:19,156 Speaker 2: it off. You know how tyler's due. Yeah, I think 530 00:28:19,196 --> 00:28:21,316 Speaker 2: I don't know if they know what they're doing or 531 00:28:21,316 --> 00:28:25,156 Speaker 2: they're just playing. But I felt this rage inside me 532 00:28:25,715 --> 00:28:28,276 Speaker 2: of like he's doing this on purpose, he's doing this 533 00:28:28,275 --> 00:28:30,436 Speaker 2: to spite me. And it turned around like getting ready 534 00:28:30,436 --> 00:28:34,876 Speaker 2: to discipline it toddler for being a toddler and feeling like, 535 00:28:35,076 --> 00:28:36,876 Speaker 2: you know, it's funny when I tell it, But I 536 00:28:37,475 --> 00:28:39,636 Speaker 2: was in that moment of like I'm so frustrated, like 537 00:28:39,756 --> 00:28:41,476 Speaker 2: I'm I don't want to be patient. I'm going to 538 00:28:41,716 --> 00:28:43,836 Speaker 2: yell at this kid totally not knock your milk off it. 539 00:28:44,356 --> 00:28:46,676 Speaker 2: And then I hear this voice in my head pick 540 00:28:46,716 --> 00:28:49,836 Speaker 2: it up, and I like looking around for Coach Ryan, 541 00:28:49,916 --> 00:28:51,796 Speaker 2: but this is not him, like this is the Holy Spirit. 542 00:28:52,876 --> 00:28:56,635 Speaker 2: And I remember smiling at my son picking it up, 543 00:28:56,836 --> 00:29:00,236 Speaker 2: putting it back on the high chair, and suddenly this 544 00:29:00,356 --> 00:29:03,676 Speaker 2: like divine revelation of the Holy Spirit clicked in me 545 00:29:04,516 --> 00:29:06,716 Speaker 2: that the wall is not the wall. Physically, we know 546 00:29:06,796 --> 00:29:09,075 Speaker 2: this and exercise that it's actually healthy for you to 547 00:29:09,116 --> 00:29:12,996 Speaker 2: push past your limits, and neither is it. So spiritually, 548 00:29:13,036 --> 00:29:15,236 Speaker 2: when I think I'm done with patience, and I tell 549 00:29:15,316 --> 00:29:17,236 Speaker 2: myself this so much as a parent, like I'm done 550 00:29:17,316 --> 00:29:19,476 Speaker 2: you know you say that like I'm done, like I'm 551 00:29:19,516 --> 00:29:23,276 Speaker 2: done being patient kind today it's like, no, beyond me, 552 00:29:24,076 --> 00:29:26,676 Speaker 2: there is more patience, because beyond me there is God, 553 00:29:26,796 --> 00:29:30,396 Speaker 2: like there's grace. He's here to help me. And that 554 00:29:30,596 --> 00:29:33,796 Speaker 2: was the day I realized that the gym could be 555 00:29:33,836 --> 00:29:36,756 Speaker 2: a gymnasium of the soul, that there was something I 556 00:29:36,756 --> 00:29:42,396 Speaker 2: would learn in physical exercise that was always applicable to spirituality. 557 00:29:42,956 --> 00:29:46,516 Speaker 2: And this is seven years later, I mean seven years later, totally, 558 00:29:47,036 --> 00:29:50,716 Speaker 2: I'm super interested in that. Still I love that Now. 559 00:29:50,756 --> 00:29:52,836 Speaker 2: It is true that I've gotten a lot more energy. 560 00:29:53,156 --> 00:29:55,236 Speaker 2: I sleep a lot better, I work a lot better. 561 00:29:56,236 --> 00:29:59,196 Speaker 2: I'm strong enough to play with my kids, and I 562 00:29:59,396 --> 00:30:01,076 Speaker 2: have four voice that they're very active. But I think 563 00:30:01,116 --> 00:30:05,956 Speaker 2: for anybody you know that children are very physically trying, 564 00:30:06,796 --> 00:30:11,036 Speaker 2: and all this stuff about loving your spouse and being 565 00:30:11,076 --> 00:30:13,996 Speaker 2: there for your family actually takes a modicum of physical health. 566 00:30:14,516 --> 00:30:16,676 Speaker 2: And so I see the gym not just as the 567 00:30:16,716 --> 00:30:20,756 Speaker 2: place where I'm sort of trained in that life of love, 568 00:30:20,876 --> 00:30:23,676 Speaker 2: of how can I push myself to know that's that's 569 00:30:23,676 --> 00:30:26,876 Speaker 2: what Christ does. He goes, he pours himself out for 570 00:30:26,916 --> 00:30:29,636 Speaker 2: the sake of love. But I'm also equipping my body 571 00:30:29,716 --> 00:30:33,595 Speaker 2: to love, and so as I age. I just turned forty, 572 00:30:33,676 --> 00:30:37,396 Speaker 2: you know, I realize my capacity to look a certain 573 00:30:37,436 --> 00:30:39,676 Speaker 2: way and lift a certain amount of weight is going 574 00:30:39,716 --> 00:30:42,956 Speaker 2: to continually move in the direction of what you expect. 575 00:30:43,076 --> 00:30:47,436 Speaker 2: I'm getting older, but I see exercise as a way 576 00:30:47,476 --> 00:30:51,476 Speaker 2: to train me to continue to be more loving, day 577 00:30:51,516 --> 00:30:53,476 Speaker 2: after day after day after day, no matter what my 578 00:30:53,476 --> 00:30:56,436 Speaker 2: body looks or feels like. And that to me is 579 00:30:56,476 --> 00:31:00,476 Speaker 2: super compelling. And now I used to think all about 580 00:31:00,476 --> 00:31:03,556 Speaker 2: like how can I fit exercise, and then my busy 581 00:31:03,596 --> 00:31:05,756 Speaker 2: schedule like I don't have time. Well, once you see 582 00:31:05,756 --> 00:31:08,036 Speaker 2: that spiritual importance of it, now I'm like, all right, 583 00:31:08,076 --> 00:31:10,516 Speaker 2: I need to fit life around exercise because this is 584 00:31:10,556 --> 00:31:12,676 Speaker 2: actually kind of a core of what it means to 585 00:31:12,676 --> 00:31:16,196 Speaker 2: remain a healthy human being. I'm happy to expound on 586 00:31:16,236 --> 00:31:18,836 Speaker 2: that at all. I just when I had one more point, though, Yeah, 587 00:31:19,196 --> 00:31:23,156 Speaker 2: some of you listening will be like, but I'm injured 588 00:31:23,596 --> 00:31:28,236 Speaker 2: or I'm you know, I'm seventy. You know I can't 589 00:31:28,316 --> 00:31:32,356 Speaker 2: go running or lifting weights or anything. I just I 590 00:31:32,396 --> 00:31:35,635 Speaker 2: always like to note for people the exercise that is 591 00:31:35,636 --> 00:31:42,236 Speaker 2: most strongly correlated to health and longevity is walking outside. 592 00:31:42,276 --> 00:31:44,356 Speaker 2: Also one of the things that is most strongly coord 593 00:31:44,396 --> 00:31:47,276 Speaker 2: related to overall well being and happiness and mental health 594 00:31:47,596 --> 00:31:51,356 Speaker 2: is walking outside with friends. So if your low bar 595 00:31:51,556 --> 00:31:55,036 Speaker 2: of application of this chapter is just starting to take 596 00:31:55,076 --> 00:31:57,156 Speaker 2: a walk a couple times a week, ideally with a friend, 597 00:31:57,396 --> 00:32:00,196 Speaker 2: know that your bar is probably higher than me if 598 00:32:00,196 --> 00:32:02,075 Speaker 2: you're doing that, and most of us can do that, 599 00:32:02,276 --> 00:32:05,075 Speaker 2: So don't let the enemy get in your head and 600 00:32:05,116 --> 00:32:07,996 Speaker 2: be like, well you can't or you're different. Most of 601 00:32:08,076 --> 00:32:09,916 Speaker 2: us can do that. Actually, the most important thing, and 602 00:32:09,956 --> 00:32:11,756 Speaker 2: that would just be to walk outside for a little bit. 603 00:32:12,836 --> 00:32:16,036 Speaker 1: And this conversation has been so good because it makes 604 00:32:16,076 --> 00:32:19,676 Speaker 1: you kind of excited, right, Like, I'm going to eat better. 605 00:32:19,996 --> 00:32:22,916 Speaker 1: I'm gonna try to exercise because I want to be 606 00:32:22,956 --> 00:32:24,756 Speaker 1: a good steward of my body. And we all need 607 00:32:24,796 --> 00:32:28,355 Speaker 1: this jumpstart. You know, I have the right BMI, Like 608 00:32:28,436 --> 00:32:30,716 Speaker 1: I'm okay, I know I'm not overweight, but believe me, 609 00:32:31,156 --> 00:32:33,756 Speaker 1: I love my cookies. There isn't a suite in this 610 00:32:33,876 --> 00:32:36,276 Speaker 1: world that I do not like. If you give me 611 00:32:36,716 --> 00:32:39,276 Speaker 1: a bar, I will eat the entire Like I there's 612 00:32:39,316 --> 00:32:41,876 Speaker 1: a place that we put our chocolate bars, so I'll 613 00:32:41,876 --> 00:32:43,636 Speaker 1: put the chocolate bar there and then I will eat 614 00:32:43,676 --> 00:32:45,796 Speaker 1: the entire bar in one day, but I never tell 615 00:32:45,796 --> 00:32:49,596 Speaker 1: my family this, especially my health loving husband. So I'll 616 00:32:49,636 --> 00:32:52,356 Speaker 1: pretend it's there, you know, for like a week because 617 00:32:52,396 --> 00:32:54,276 Speaker 1: no one else looks for it but me, and I 618 00:32:54,356 --> 00:32:56,636 Speaker 1: know that it only took me a day to eat that, 619 00:32:56,676 --> 00:32:58,356 Speaker 1: But I keep like the wrapper in there, so it 620 00:32:58,436 --> 00:33:00,636 Speaker 1: kind of looks like something's there. I mean, I am 621 00:33:00,836 --> 00:33:05,476 Speaker 1: so there, and I can attest that when I eat good, 622 00:33:05,676 --> 00:33:09,036 Speaker 1: I feel good, and when I eat bad, I feel bad. 623 00:33:09,436 --> 00:33:11,796 Speaker 1: But I still do it because it's so delicious and 624 00:33:11,836 --> 00:33:15,636 Speaker 1: all the dopamine. But listening to you today has really 625 00:33:16,076 --> 00:33:18,556 Speaker 1: been a great jumpstart to Hey, I want to stay 626 00:33:18,556 --> 00:33:21,196 Speaker 1: on those right track, and I want to honor God 627 00:33:21,236 --> 00:33:23,796 Speaker 1: by honoring my body to do it in a way 628 00:33:24,036 --> 00:33:26,835 Speaker 1: so I can keep loving my kids and keep loving 629 00:33:26,876 --> 00:33:29,516 Speaker 1: my spouse. Thank you for this. How can people find 630 00:33:29,556 --> 00:33:33,116 Speaker 1: out more about your book and connect with you justin? 631 00:33:34,596 --> 00:33:36,476 Speaker 2: Two great ways to do that? Would want to we 632 00:33:36,516 --> 00:33:39,956 Speaker 2: go to my website a's justin whitmore early dot com 633 00:33:40,076 --> 00:33:42,916 Speaker 2: or google just an Early Author, Lawyer and you'll find it. 634 00:33:42,996 --> 00:33:45,396 Speaker 2: You can sign up for my email list there. That's 635 00:33:45,436 --> 00:33:47,596 Speaker 2: a great way to hear about what I'm working on. 636 00:33:47,956 --> 00:33:51,636 Speaker 2: I also send a lot of free devotionals and plans 637 00:33:51,636 --> 00:33:55,436 Speaker 2: for stuff like this, like you know how to kickstart 638 00:33:55,436 --> 00:33:59,116 Speaker 2: your eating in spiritual rhythms, or like a devotional plan 639 00:33:59,116 --> 00:34:02,596 Speaker 2: because I'm big in intermingling the spiritual and the physical discipline, 640 00:34:02,676 --> 00:34:04,796 Speaker 2: so that's a great place for that. You could also 641 00:34:04,836 --> 00:34:08,995 Speaker 2: follow me on Instagram at Justin whitmore early and you'll 642 00:34:08,996 --> 00:34:13,315 Speaker 2: hear short videos, little short reels, or posts about this 643 00:34:13,556 --> 00:34:17,596 Speaker 2: same stuff. So short form content there, long form content 644 00:34:17,636 --> 00:34:19,475 Speaker 2: on email lists, and I'd love to have follow along 645 00:34:19,516 --> 00:34:20,236 Speaker 2: with either or both. 646 00:34:21,356 --> 00:34:23,636 Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Justin. This has been fantastic. 647 00:34:24,196 --> 00:34:24,875 Speaker 2: Thank you, Arlie. 648 00:34:26,396 --> 00:34:29,756 Speaker 1: I hope you've enjoyed today's conversation. I'd love to keep 649 00:34:29,796 --> 00:34:33,436 Speaker 1: in touch beyond this podcast. Click subscribe in the show 650 00:34:33,476 --> 00:34:36,036 Speaker 1: notes and I will give you my latest email to 651 00:34:36,156 --> 00:34:39,956 Speaker 1: keep up on what's happening with technology and kids. And 652 00:34:40,036 --> 00:34:42,876 Speaker 1: maybe you like reading or listening to books. I have 653 00:34:42,996 --> 00:34:45,676 Speaker 1: a lot of books. You could start with The Big Three, 654 00:34:46,116 --> 00:34:51,276 Speaker 1: Making Marriage Easier, Parents Rising, or Screen Kids. A big 655 00:34:51,316 --> 00:34:53,476 Speaker 1: thank you to the team at life Audio for their 656 00:34:53,516 --> 00:34:57,395 Speaker 1: partnership with the Happy Home podcast. Check out lifeaudio dot 657 00:34:57,436 --> 00:35:01,076 Speaker 1: com for dozens of other faith related podcasts about prayer, 658 00:35:01,436 --> 00:35:05,196 Speaker 1: Bible study, and more. Remember you don't have to come 659 00:35:05,236 --> 00:35:08,355 Speaker 1: from a happy home to create one. You two can 660 00:35:08,436 --> 00:35:09,676 Speaker 1: have a happy home.