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Speaker 1: Life audio.

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Speaker 2: So I don't want to sound totally arrogant on this answer,

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Speaker 2: but I don't have a lot of regrets, not big ones,

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Speaker 2: but I hope I would say, regardless of the sized

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Speaker 2: church I've been able to pastor, are the people that

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Speaker 2: we've been able to reach that it is truly worth it.

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Speaker 1: I'm here with my good friend Jack Graham, who has

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Speaker 1: been a pastor now for is it thirty five years? Jack?

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Speaker 2: Overall it would be more like sixty years or.

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Speaker 1: Because you were a pastor before you came depressed him resolutely.

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Speaker 2: I was in West Palm Beach, Florida, and that's been

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Speaker 2: Oklahoma before that as a young preacher.

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Speaker 1: Don't you feel you're bragging now being from Oklahoma? No,

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Speaker 1: just to oh, I've pastored so many churches.

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Speaker 2: It's been a long run and I'm grateful.

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Speaker 1: So we've known each other a long time. How long

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Speaker 1: do you? I feel like immn you thirty years ago?

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Speaker 2: Absolutely? And I actually saw you preaching on television and

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Speaker 2: I picked up the phone and called you. Yeah, and

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Speaker 2: we connected and became friends. I came out to the

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Speaker 2: Crusade maybe early nineties, ninety one, ninety and we became

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Speaker 2: friends and really good friends.

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Speaker 1: Over the years. Yeah. Absolutely, Yeah. Well, you know it's

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Speaker 1: been said, if you see a turtle on a fence post,

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Speaker 1: you know he didn't get there by himself, right, And

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Speaker 1: to think of what you've been able to do. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you pastored this megachurch as they called them, and that's

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Speaker 1: often used in a negative sense, but there's nothing wrong

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Speaker 1: with God has blessed a ministry and it's grown, and

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Speaker 1: yours has grown very large, attended by thousands of people.

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Speaker 1: Plus you have a radio and television program. You also

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Speaker 1: have a very successful podcast that tell us the name

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Speaker 1: of it and what is your podcast about.

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Speaker 2: It's called Bible in a Year with Jack Graham, and

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Speaker 2: it's on the prey dot com app, and now it's

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Speaker 2: getting ready to expand to YouTube and we're doing a

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Speaker 2: video version of good animation, which is going to be amazing.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, when the people from pray dot com came

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Speaker 2: to me and said would you do this? And I said, well,

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Speaker 2: you know, maybe if we get a couple one hundred

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Speaker 2: thousand people on this, because what it is, it's a

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Speaker 2: Bible reading, and then I do an intro and an exit,

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Speaker 2: an application at the end. The whole thing's twelve minute segments.

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Speaker 2: I thought, if we could get a you know, two

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Speaker 2: hundred thousand people and it'd be great. Well, recently it's

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Speaker 2: over one hundred million downloads, were nine or ten languages.

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Speaker 2: AI thankfully takes the voice and turns it into Mandarin

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Speaker 2: or whatever, and now we're doing this brand new version

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Speaker 2: which is amazing animation of the stories of the Bible

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Speaker 2: and same thing. So it just it was one of

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Speaker 2: those things that in God's time. But here's what I

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Speaker 2: love about it.

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Speaker 1: Greg.

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Speaker 2: When I was a little boy, I had the privilege

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Speaker 2: of living with my parents, with my maternal grandfather, and

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Speaker 2: virtually every night my grandfather would put me in this

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Speaker 2: lap and read the Scripture to me. Or more specifically,

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Speaker 2: there was a Bible story book back in the nineteen

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Speaker 2: fifties called Hurlbut's Stories of the Bible. Oh yeah, they

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Speaker 2: had photos and Daniel the lines Den David, and I

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Speaker 2: was always fascinated with the Bible and and the story

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Speaker 2: of the Bible, and in particularly the picture of the animation.

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Speaker 2: I said, they showed me the picture of the Ten Commandments,

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Speaker 2: and now I get to do this thing. I flash

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Speaker 2: forward and from my grandfather's lap, and that simple thing

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Speaker 2: of learning to love and cherish the Bible as a boy,

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Speaker 2: and now I get to simply it's not fancy, it's

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Speaker 2: not a big thing. I'm not preaching. I'm just simply

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Speaker 2: telling the story of the Bible and with the scripture itself.

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Speaker 2: People have such a hunger for the Bible there is

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Speaker 2: I think it's one of the signs of revival that

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Speaker 2: we've got going on to it.

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Speaker 1: I hear the Bible sales are up like maybe twenty

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Speaker 1: five percent in the last couple of years, and interestingly

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Speaker 1: it's among kids, Yeah, first time Bible buyers, gen z

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Speaker 1: and specifically young men.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Do you think you mentioned revival? Do you think we're

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Speaker 1: starting to see a revival. We are seeing a revival

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Speaker 1: because you were around for the Jesus right, and you

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Speaker 1: remember the phenomena that was and how many young people

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Speaker 1: were reached. Now we're seeing a similar kind of thing happening.

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Speaker 1: What do your thoughts.

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Speaker 2: I do think the word similar is a good one.

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Speaker 2: And you were there. You were part of the ground

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Speaker 2: zero of the Jesus movement where I lived in Texas.

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Speaker 2: I was raised in Texas after Arkansas. We have that

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Speaker 2: connection back to Arkansas. My family and so, but back

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Speaker 2: in Texas, it was more like in football stadiums and

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Speaker 2: locker rooms. It's kind of a fellowship a Christian athlete driven,

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Speaker 2: and it was it was different. Uh, what was a

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Speaker 2: movie that was made about what happened? Yeah, Woodlawn. That

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Speaker 2: was kind of what was happening in the South as

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Speaker 2: compared to what was happening.

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Speaker 1: On as much said, Jesus movement is what we saw

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Speaker 1: with hippies getting baptized in California. It was just a

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Speaker 1: Texas expression.

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Speaker 2: It was a youth movement for sure across the country

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Speaker 2: and a lot of kids. And then here's what happened

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Speaker 2: that I believe people want to know what stuck with

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Speaker 2: us from the Jesus Movement days, and I would say

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Speaker 2: it was so many young people that were called a

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Speaker 2: ministry such as yourself and so many I know who

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Speaker 2: came to Christ during the Jesus Movement or art.

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Speaker 1: Can be came to Christ and the Jesus there you go.

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Speaker 2: And so there's a lot of preachers today that are

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Speaker 2: our ages now that came out of Jesus Movement. I

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Speaker 2: think that was one and to me, that's always a sign,

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Speaker 2: a talltale sign of revival. When God is calling young

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Speaker 2: people to proclaim for each the gospel.

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Speaker 1: But then one day you wake up and you're not

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Speaker 1: that young person anymore.

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Speaker 2: Right, both of us are?

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Speaker 1: You know where you're a little older than me, not much.

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Speaker 1: You look better than I do. Be of your hair.

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Speaker 1: You have great hair. Where did you buy your hair?

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Speaker 2: Peace, Well, I'll give you that. I'll give you the

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Speaker 2: link online before you can.

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Speaker 1: Go when they see me next time.

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Speaker 2: And I literally just do not believe this story. This

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Speaker 2: is not now. I need to do a trump here

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Speaker 2: and start pulling my hair. This air is real.

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Speaker 1: I've seen it both. Yeah, you have too. But you know,

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Speaker 1: think about a young person starting out today in ministry.

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Speaker 1: How do you think things are from today than they

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Speaker 1: were for us back in back in our day, in

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Speaker 1: the old days.

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Speaker 2: Well, you know, in our part of the world, I

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Speaker 2: think we're seeing young people go in quicker without seminary

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Speaker 2: training or formal training. We're seeing more of that that's different,

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Speaker 2: or a lot of online pastoral and ministry training. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: we're seeing that, like Liberty Seminary over in Virginia and others.

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Speaker 2: I think that now seminaries, we have seminaries on a

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Speaker 2: southern Baptist. We have good seminaries, but you know, I

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Speaker 2: think that's the one thing. And also when I was

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Speaker 2: coming up, it was pretty traditional for you to go

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Speaker 2: to seminary and then go get a country church somewhere,

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Speaker 2: which I did. I went to a small town in

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Speaker 2: Oklahoma and then just kind of move forward through the

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Speaker 2: callings of God. But now I see the young pastors,

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Speaker 2: they want to go start a church, they want to

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Speaker 2: plant a church. You know, I think it could be

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Speaker 2: a problem because who's going to pastor some of these

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Speaker 2: rural churches and small town churches. And I just saw

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Speaker 2: a stat today Gret that while we've got these wonderful

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Speaker 2: sized revival with the zoomers, I didn't know we were

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Speaker 2: calling them zoomers now gen z or like boomers, we're boomers,

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Speaker 2: now these are zoomers. And there's similarities I think between

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Speaker 2: the boomers and the zoomers in terms of mentality. I

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Speaker 2: think you've spoken about this, yes, but it's a little

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Speaker 2: bit of a concern that Protestant churches are shutting down

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Speaker 2: at a faster rate than we could have imagined right

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Speaker 2: now with all the revival. But on the other hand,

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Speaker 2: maybe that's part of the revival because some of these

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Speaker 2: dead liberal progressive churches need to shut down.

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Speaker 1: You know, yeah, exactly. You know, I've seen people go

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Speaker 1: to seminary and I've seen it actually impair them as

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Speaker 1: a preacher, and I've seen others be very equipped. So

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Speaker 1: I think there's a place for that, But I think

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Speaker 1: the best kind of preparation is being in a local

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Speaker 1: church right and be mentored by godly totally agree. You

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Speaker 1: know you were close to doing Rogers right, and you

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Speaker 1: were close to W. A. Chriswell, who are two legends.

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Speaker 1: I had the privilege of being close to Chuck Smith

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Speaker 1: and later Billy Graham when I was going into evangelism,

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Speaker 1: and I took full advantage of that access so that

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Speaker 1: I had to them and whatever would be together. I

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Speaker 1: would just barage them with questions. But I was learning,

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Speaker 1: and I know that that's probably the best kind of training.

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Speaker 1: Because people say, well, I want to go into ministry,

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Speaker 1: and I asked them, where do you go to church,

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Speaker 1: and what are you doing in your church? Start by

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Speaker 1: volunteering in your church. They always have a need in

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Speaker 1: youth ministry and Sunday school. Start there, because if you

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Speaker 1: can keep the attention of a classroom full of kids

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Speaker 1: that I think God'd be of given you a gift.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And I say, you know, do whatever you're asked

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Speaker 2: to do. Go work in the parking lot. Yeah, because

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Speaker 2: you know, preachers need to learn how to serve. And

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Speaker 2: if you what's that saying, if you're if you're too

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Speaker 2: big for a little job, then you're too little for

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Speaker 2: a big job. And so you if you're a young

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Speaker 2: preacher viewing this, listening to this, you'll be willing to

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Speaker 2: go go. I actually preached on this street as a

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Speaker 2: young preacher, and my buddy, doctor Os Hawkins and I

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Speaker 2: we came up about the same time, same church. We

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Speaker 2: would literally go preach on the street, in front of

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Speaker 2: a night club in downtown Fort Worth, or preach in

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Speaker 2: a nursing home, just anywhere where you can preach or

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Speaker 2: serve or do whatever. But when God called him to

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Speaker 2: preach me at the same time, we were actually ordained

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Speaker 2: the same night. In nineteen seventy, which seventy was a

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Speaker 2: big year for me. Year we got married year. My

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Speaker 2: father passed away in nineteen seventy, So what that's going

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Speaker 2: on twenty to fifty six years ago. It's amazing, you know,

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Speaker 2: that's the other thing you say to young preachers and

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Speaker 2: they look at you like, you know, but they don't

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Speaker 2: believe you. But I always say, just get ready because

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Speaker 2: this goes really fast. Yeah, it goes really really fast.

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Speaker 2: So it take advantage of every moment.

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Speaker 1: Lilly once said, some of us, and what has been

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Speaker 1: the greatest surprise of your life? And Billy Graham said,

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Speaker 1: the brevity of.

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Speaker 2: The brevity of it.

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Speaker 1: The brevity of it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And you know, sometimes you hear about pastors burning out.

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Speaker 1: Have you ever experienced that? And what do you think

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Speaker 1: is the anecdote to that?

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Speaker 2: No, I would say I've never experienced any burnout in

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Speaker 2: the ministry. I experienced a period after cancer surgery in

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Speaker 2: two thousand and nine where I was dealing with some

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Speaker 2: anxiety and depression. After that, I wrote about that in

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Speaker 2: a book called Rekindled. But you know, so that that

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Speaker 2: was health related, it wasn't ministry related. And the antidote

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Speaker 2: for me is always what onet Corinthians fifteen fifty eight.

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Speaker 2: Be steadfast, unmovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord.

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Speaker 2: Because when you're abounding, and that word actually can mean excelling,

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Speaker 2: So always doing your best, you know, don't offer God

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Speaker 2: the least and the last of what you've got, but

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Speaker 2: give everything. And again it's a spiritual solution. If you're

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Speaker 2: getting up you know, each day and you're praying and

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Speaker 2: you're getting on your knees or you're praying and expecting

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Speaker 2: God to use you, that it keeps you. Yet No,

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Speaker 2: I mean all of us experience in season and out

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Speaker 2: of season. Maybe days when that are tough days, but

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Speaker 2: in the minute and one of the blessings that we've

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Speaker 2: had is our church has been so supportive. Yeah, never

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Speaker 2: had a major conflict or a division or sism of

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Speaker 2: any kind. So I know a lot of pastors deal

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Speaker 2: with a lot of criticism and that's a tough thing

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Speaker 2: for pastors, and they have to be prepared to ultimately

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Speaker 2: make it your aim to please God.

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Speaker 1: As Paul says, Alan Redpath once told me, to be

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Speaker 1: in ministry, you need the mind of a scholar, the

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Speaker 1: heart of a child, and the height of a rhinoceros. Yeah. True,

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Speaker 1: you know, because you are going to be you know,

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Speaker 1: I would say, don't believe the praise or the criticism. Now,

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Speaker 1: there are times when the criticism may be valid and

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Speaker 1: you can learn something from a critic, But then there

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Speaker 1: are people today, especially online that literally just you know,

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Speaker 1: they tell lies about people, they slender people, and it's hard,

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Speaker 1: you know. But at the same time, you know, Jesus said,

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Speaker 1: blessed are you when you're persecuted for righteousness sake, So

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Speaker 1: just make sure it's for righteousness sake, and just leave

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Speaker 1: it in the hands of the Lord. And and just

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Speaker 1: kind of like I always look at Nehemiah and when

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Speaker 1: his critics and opponents came to him and wanted him

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Speaker 1: to stop what he was doing, he said, I'm not

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Speaker 1: doing it. I'm gonna just keep building the swallow And

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Speaker 1: I've always felt just keep doing it. Actually, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's on the.

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Speaker 2: Plans of oh No. He said oh no to oh No, yeah,

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Speaker 2: you know, and said, I'm not coming down.

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Speaker 1: I don't have.

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Speaker 2: Time to deal with your yeah, divisive negativity. And so

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Speaker 2: he just kept building.

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Speaker 1: And how would Billy see the planes of oh no no?

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Speaker 1: And he was on the planes of oh no. He

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Speaker 1: would emphasize oh no. And that reminds me of Yoka

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Speaker 1: oh No, who I never met. I will see to you.

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Speaker 1: How would Billy say that, because there's certain words with

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Speaker 1: his beautiful Southern accent that he was seeing his distinct

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Speaker 1: question like cracker, Yeah, what is crack?

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Speaker 2: Cracker?

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Speaker 1: It's a cracker, and he would emphasize that. The other

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Speaker 1: day I was eating a cracker. He was so great,

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Speaker 1: you know, I know you knew him personally as well,

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Speaker 1: and you know, people asked me what he was like.

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Speaker 1: I said, he was even better than he was in public.

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Speaker 1: And he was so great in public, but privately he

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Speaker 1: was such a friendly, accessible, humble person who was He

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Speaker 1: was very self deprecating, and I don't feel in any

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Speaker 1: way it was an act. He would just say, well,

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Speaker 1: I'm just a country preacher. He said, do you want

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Speaker 1: to learn?

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Speaker 2: What are you doing?

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Speaker 1: And he would say that, and you didn't really know

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Speaker 1: how to react to it, but I disagreed with them.

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Speaker 1: Once I said, actually, Billy, I think you're a really

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Speaker 1: great preacher, and he just deflected, just reflect that he

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Speaker 1: didn't want to talk about that.

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Speaker 2: But which is, by the way, back to your question

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Speaker 2: about burnout and preachers. You know, if you keep the

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Speaker 2: proper perspective of your life and your calling, and you

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Speaker 2: lower your expectations and your aspirations of public praise and

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Speaker 2: all the rest, I don't think public praise really affected

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Speaker 2: Billy Graham at all. I don't think he just moved

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Speaker 2: through his calling. And uh, you know, he had this,

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Speaker 2: he had this mantra that he always said, no attack,

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Speaker 2: no defense. You ever heard him say that or read

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Speaker 2: that when it came to criticism, And he always took

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Speaker 2: the position not to attack people. And we see so

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Speaker 2: many attacks online, even preachers attacking you know, the Jesus team,

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Speaker 2: our home team. And so no attack. And then he

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Speaker 2: really tried to live by the no defense because he

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Speaker 2: got a lot of criticism and sometimes from you know,

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Speaker 2: Christians who didn't agree with his open policies towards back

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Speaker 2: in the day to even towards segregation early in the

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Speaker 2: fifties when he was standing uh you know, he would open,

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Speaker 2: he would in Little Rock. Uh he actually went up

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Speaker 2: personally tore down the ropes they had for the segregated

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Speaker 2: section and and and so there was that and and

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Speaker 2: uh so he got criticism in the Deep South for that.

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Speaker 2: He got criticism for uh you know, like I'll just

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Speaker 2: call a name, the Bob Jones University at that time,

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Speaker 2: they basically expelled him and wanted nothing to do with him,

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Speaker 2: said he was an unbeliever and not fundamentalist. Enough, so

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Speaker 2: he took criticism, but he took the position of no attack,

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Speaker 2: no defense. I think that's a good thing for pastors

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Speaker 2: to remember.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, that's so called Modesta Manifesto. He was

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Speaker 1: in Modesto, California. They came up with this what they

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Speaker 1: called a manifesto, just some principles. They chose to live by.

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Speaker 1: One of the most well known UH tenets of the

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Speaker 1: Medestine Manifesto. They call it the Billy Graham rule, which is,

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Speaker 1: you know, don't be alone with a woman, right if

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Speaker 1: it's not your wife. But another one that.

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Speaker 2: Publicly are privately honestly yeah.

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Speaker 1: And the other another one was don't speak critically of

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Speaker 1: another ministry.

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Speaker 2: That's true, I said there.

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Speaker 1: So you know, when I when I preach on topics

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Speaker 1: and I'm going to come to a topic where maybe

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Speaker 1: I have a disagreement with someone else theologically, I'll deal

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Speaker 1: with the topic, say what the Bible says, let the

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Speaker 1: chips line where they will. But I never make it

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Speaker 1: personal because then sometimes you meet these people in different settings.

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Speaker 1: You know, we've been in the White House. We've met

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Speaker 1: some very interesting preachers that are of a different stripe

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Speaker 1: theologically than we are. But yet we recognize these are

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Speaker 1: brothers and the Lord, and we have a different focus,

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Speaker 1: and we would have our theological disagreements, but then we

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Speaker 1: have many things in common as well. And so you know, there's.

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Speaker 2: You're a broad tent guy, and I appreciate you know,

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Speaker 2: you came up in the Cawary movement, of course, but

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Speaker 2: you have, you know, included many Christians and in the

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Speaker 2: manner of Billy Graham with the Crusade ministry and all

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Speaker 2: the rest. And I feel like I've done that as

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Speaker 2: a pastor. I've tried to be I'm a Southern Baptist,

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Speaker 2: glad to be a Southern Baptist. I say, I'm a Christian. First,

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Speaker 2: I'm a Baptist. Second, theologically I'm a Baptist, and then

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Speaker 2: I'm a Southern Baptist because that's a missional thing and denominational.

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Speaker 2: But I would be a Baptist if I wasn't a

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Speaker 2: Southern Baptist, and I would be a Christian if I

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Speaker 2: wasn't a Baptist. So first, you know, what's the passage

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Speaker 2: in Isaiah where he says, you know, extend the stakes,

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Speaker 2: broaden the tent, and deepen the stakes. And so what

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Speaker 2: we want to do in ministry is have a big tent.

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Speaker 2: But when you build a big tent, I was never

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Speaker 2: good as a boy scout. I bailed out at Cub Scouts.

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Speaker 2: I couldn't tie those knots. But if you're a boy scout,

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Speaker 2: you learned how to put a tent in the ground.

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Speaker 2: I'm not a camper. I don't do that. But if

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Speaker 2: you're going to broaden the tent, you have to deepen

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Speaker 2: the steak. And so I would say that in our

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Speaker 2: efforts to include everyone, especially in evangelism and maybe cultural

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Speaker 2: engagement for the sacty of life issue, for example, when

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Speaker 2: you broad the tent and invite everybody in, you got

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Speaker 2: to make sure you deepen the steak or the tent

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Speaker 2: will blow away. So the deep the stakes of doctrinal fidelity,

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Speaker 2: biblical truth, deep mistakes of sanctification and purity in those things.

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Speaker 1: Yeah good. Do you have a life verse? Like? Oh man,

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Speaker 1: this like someone says, write a verse in my Bible.

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Speaker 1: Do you have a verse you'll often go to, or

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Speaker 1: one that you come back to and reflect on again

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Speaker 1: and again, or maybe that's changed over time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it probably has changed over time. But I would

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Speaker 2: say Romans fifteen thirteen May the God of Hope fill

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Speaker 2: you with all joy and peace, and believing that you,

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Speaker 2: by the power of the Holy Spirit, may overflow with hope.

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Speaker 2: That's a good that's a great verse. And uh, you know,

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Speaker 2: these days, I look at what Paul said there to

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Speaker 2: the Ephesian's elders when he said, but you know, none

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Speaker 2: of these things moved me. He was looking at death

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Speaker 2: and the end of his life and ministry. He said,

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Speaker 2: but you know, none of these things moved me. Right,

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Speaker 2: he said, but that I would finish my course with joy.

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Speaker 2: Finish your course with joy.

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Speaker 1: Coming back to what we were talking about earlier about burnout,

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Speaker 1: I think I love and I know this is true

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Speaker 1: of you too, because we've talked about it. I love

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Speaker 1: what I do more today than when I started, and

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Speaker 1: I've always loved it. Ask me the other day, do

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Speaker 1: you ever not want to preach? I said, actually no.

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Speaker 1: Now sometimes it's harder if I'm sick or extenuating circumstances.

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Speaker 1: But as far as wanting to do it, I look

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Speaker 1: forward to it. I love to do it. You know,

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Speaker 1: remember that scene from Chariots a Fire. Not everyone's seen

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Speaker 1: that movie. It's a great film. The story of Eric

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Speaker 1: Little outspoken Christian who ran the Olympics, and his sister

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Speaker 1: was challenging him, saying, why are you running in the Olympics.

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Speaker 1: You should be a missionary, and then gives that famous line, Jenny,

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Speaker 1: he called his sister's name. When I run, I feel

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Speaker 1: his pleasure that yeah, And I feel that when I preach,

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Speaker 1: to say it, yeah, I feel his pleasure. It's like

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Speaker 1: to me. You know, some sermons are harder than other sermons,

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Speaker 1: Some topics are harder to deal with than other topics,

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Speaker 1: but by and larger, I just love all of it.

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Speaker 1: And coming back to Polsimen, I want to finish my

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Speaker 1: race with joy. And the key is, you know, you

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Speaker 1: have to keep your eyes in Jesus, you know, from

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Speaker 1: beginning to end.

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Speaker 2: Right yep, I say, you know that that passage in

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Speaker 2: Hebrews twelve looking under Jesus the Author and Finisher, when

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Speaker 2: it says, lay aside the weights of the sin that

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Speaker 2: so easily trips us up. And I say to preachers,

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Speaker 2: when I talk to young preachers or otherwise, you know,

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Speaker 2: there are two things in life. One that will will

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Speaker 2: get you out of ministry faster than anything. One is entitlements. Yes,

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Speaker 2: back to the pride issue and are entitled that I

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Speaker 2: deserve this because I'm a preacher or and you know,

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Speaker 2: got your hand out expecting things that so entitlements, having

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Speaker 2: an entitled attitude, that'll that'll take you down. Because what

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Speaker 2: is a Bible say pride comes before a fall and

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Speaker 2: then but the other's entanglements. So the scripture there, I

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Speaker 2: think Paul wrote Hebrews, but we can debate that whatever.

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Speaker 2: But the scripture there says the things that trip you up.

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Speaker 2: So these could be, you know, this could be said

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Speaker 2: sinful things, but many times that could be doubtful things,

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Speaker 2: questionable things, or just things that are a distraction taking

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Speaker 2: up too much time.

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Speaker 1: Which could very from person to person.

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Speaker 2: Exactly what would be a weight for you?

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Speaker 1: Leah said the weight in the season soously but set you.

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Speaker 1: You know, what could be a weight to you may

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Speaker 1: not be a weight to me. It could just like

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Speaker 1: you said, a good thing becomes more important than anything else.

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Speaker 1: Good meaning it's not an evil thing intrinsically, but you

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Speaker 1: allow it to become too big of a thing in

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Speaker 1: your life.

432
00:21:35,365 --> 00:21:37,564
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, kind of idle of the heart, as

433
00:21:37,925 --> 00:21:39,885
Speaker 2: the scripture says, So you've got to tear those things

434
00:21:39,965 --> 00:21:42,804
Speaker 2: down but anything. And I saw, I tell you know, look,

435
00:21:43,165 --> 00:21:47,565
Speaker 2: if you're a preacher, be a preacher, don't. I mean,

436
00:21:47,645 --> 00:21:49,404
Speaker 2: I don't want to be critical here of others what

437
00:21:49,445 --> 00:21:51,524
Speaker 2: others may do. But you know, you don't get a

438
00:21:51,564 --> 00:21:54,324
Speaker 2: lot of side hustles going and a lot of stuff

439
00:21:54,365 --> 00:21:58,244
Speaker 2: outside the ministry. You know, even investments. Just fine to

440
00:21:58,244 --> 00:22:00,805
Speaker 2: invest in all that, but you know, don't get all

441
00:22:00,885 --> 00:22:03,165
Speaker 2: side tracked because if you've got too much stuff coming

442
00:22:03,205 --> 00:22:05,444
Speaker 2: at you. Back to the burnout thing. A lot of

443
00:22:05,885 --> 00:22:11,725
Speaker 2: social media. I think this is one thing. The Indiana

444
00:22:11,804 --> 00:22:15,925
Speaker 2: Hoosiers just won the national championship and they were saying

445
00:22:15,925 --> 00:22:21,084
Speaker 2: about Fernando the Heisman Trophy Winter Mendoza that he during

446
00:22:21,084 --> 00:22:24,524
Speaker 2: the season he goes totally offline because he doesn't want

447
00:22:24,524 --> 00:22:27,925
Speaker 2: to be distracted, so he's not on anything because he's

448
00:22:27,925 --> 00:22:30,965
Speaker 2: focused on doing his job and winning, which he did.

449
00:22:31,044 --> 00:22:33,564
Speaker 2: He did quite well. But I thought, what a lesson

450
00:22:33,604 --> 00:22:35,324
Speaker 2: it is for all of us because a lot of

451
00:22:35,324 --> 00:22:38,004
Speaker 2: the criticism we read, we you know, you don't even

452
00:22:38,165 --> 00:22:41,044
Speaker 2: ask for it, but it shows up. And even Charlie Kirk,

453
00:22:41,044 --> 00:22:44,164
Speaker 2: who now talking about his book The Sabbath, you know,

454
00:22:44,244 --> 00:22:46,885
Speaker 2: to take time out from from social media, I think

455
00:22:46,885 --> 00:22:50,164
Speaker 2: there's some things we can do that me, you and

456
00:22:50,205 --> 00:22:52,484
Speaker 2: I didn't face when we were in our twenties and thirties.

457
00:22:52,965 --> 00:22:55,804
Speaker 2: Now these young guys, it's just they're being bombarded with

458
00:22:55,885 --> 00:22:58,884
Speaker 2: criticism that they're reading. So maybe one thing you can do.

459
00:22:58,965 --> 00:23:01,165
Speaker 2: There's a lot of studies going on about the impact

460
00:23:01,524 --> 00:23:03,604
Speaker 2: of the of the cell phone and impact of just

461
00:23:03,685 --> 00:23:07,525
Speaker 2: constantly having connections heads. Maybe we need to back off

462
00:23:07,564 --> 00:23:08,044
Speaker 2: from some of that.

463
00:23:08,205 --> 00:23:11,165
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I was excited when the smartphone came out,

464
00:23:11,165 --> 00:23:13,165
Speaker 1: the iPhone. I wish we could just go back to

465
00:23:13,244 --> 00:23:15,524
Speaker 1: flip phones. Remember when we used to create pagers.

466
00:23:15,885 --> 00:23:18,205
Speaker 2: Oh you get a little beat, you have to go

467
00:23:18,284 --> 00:23:22,004
Speaker 2: to the thing in the car? What was that? Yeah? Yeah, yeah,

468
00:23:22,205 --> 00:23:24,204
Speaker 2: what's your locate? What's your what's your location?

469
00:23:24,365 --> 00:23:26,885
Speaker 1: It was better back then with with less of that tech.

470
00:23:27,205 --> 00:23:29,404
Speaker 1: But you know, things have changed so much. It's like

471
00:23:29,564 --> 00:23:32,645
Speaker 1: now we're in the time of the podcaster. I think

472
00:23:32,685 --> 00:23:35,244
Speaker 1: it seems like a lot of people, including Christians, are

473
00:23:35,244 --> 00:23:39,684
Speaker 1: more influenced by podcasters than pastors. Oh do you hear

474
00:23:39,725 --> 00:23:43,405
Speaker 1: with that podcaster just said about this? And it's like, honestly,

475
00:23:43,445 --> 00:23:46,445
Speaker 1: who cares? Who are these people? And they're opining on

476
00:23:46,524 --> 00:23:52,244
Speaker 1: theology they're opining on on versus from scripture, they're opening

477
00:23:52,324 --> 00:23:54,404
Speaker 1: on all these things that many of them don't know

478
00:23:54,564 --> 00:23:59,685
Speaker 1: anything about. And and you know what I love about you, Jack,

479
00:24:00,365 --> 00:24:03,004
Speaker 1: is you have been a pastor. Yes you're out there

480
00:24:03,004 --> 00:24:08,085
Speaker 1: in media, Yes you're impacting the world the radio, television, podcasting,

481
00:24:08,165 --> 00:24:11,085
Speaker 1: et cetera. But when it's all said and done, you're

482
00:24:11,084 --> 00:24:13,364
Speaker 1: the guy that goes into the pulpit on Sunday morning.

483
00:24:13,645 --> 00:24:16,285
Speaker 1: You're taking care of your flock. You're ministering to them,

484
00:24:16,284 --> 00:24:20,325
Speaker 1: and that is a strength. I think say something on

485
00:24:20,365 --> 00:24:24,804
Speaker 1: this podcast the people listening to this about why they

486
00:24:24,844 --> 00:24:27,284
Speaker 1: should be a part of a local church and why

487
00:24:27,324 --> 00:24:27,764
Speaker 1: that matters.

488
00:24:27,925 --> 00:24:31,604
Speaker 2: Because the only thing Jesus started and left behind was

489
00:24:31,645 --> 00:24:34,725
Speaker 2: the church. And there are many pair of church coming

490
00:24:34,725 --> 00:24:37,364
Speaker 2: alongside the church to strengthen the work of Christ of

491
00:24:37,445 --> 00:24:40,405
Speaker 2: the church. And we support some of these things, of course,

492
00:24:40,445 --> 00:24:43,044
Speaker 2: I mean Billy Graham, Yeah, you know, it was a

493
00:24:43,205 --> 00:24:44,804
Speaker 2: virtue and not a church. It was a pair of

494
00:24:45,004 --> 00:24:48,244
Speaker 2: church alongside. And there are many things like that that

495
00:24:48,324 --> 00:24:51,324
Speaker 2: are good. And often these happened because churches weren't getting

496
00:24:51,324 --> 00:24:54,685
Speaker 2: the job done. Local churches like Fellowship of Christian Athletes

497
00:24:54,764 --> 00:24:57,764
Speaker 2: help us reach athletes and so on. But in the end,

498
00:24:58,004 --> 00:25:02,324
Speaker 2: the only thing that Jesus began that will end. He said,

499
00:25:02,324 --> 00:25:04,524
Speaker 2: the gates of hell will not prevail against my church.

500
00:25:04,564 --> 00:25:07,365
Speaker 2: And there's the be See the big church for wide,

501
00:25:07,405 --> 00:25:09,925
Speaker 2: the body of Christ, but then local churches. Because when

502
00:25:09,965 --> 00:25:13,165
Speaker 2: you read your New Testament, I used to say it,

503
00:25:13,244 --> 00:25:15,685
Speaker 2: I think it's true one of out of every twenty

504
00:25:15,725 --> 00:25:18,284
Speaker 2: five verses speaks of the big c Church, but all

505
00:25:18,324 --> 00:25:20,404
Speaker 2: the rest of them talking about local churches. I mean

506
00:25:20,445 --> 00:25:22,965
Speaker 2: when Paul went established churches. I mean, this is the

507
00:25:23,004 --> 00:25:25,524
Speaker 2: plan and it's still the plan. I don't believe God

508
00:25:25,564 --> 00:25:28,404
Speaker 2: has changed it. Now. Does the church need revival? Yes, yeah,

509
00:25:28,604 --> 00:25:31,725
Speaker 2: churches are. Many churches are closing, and some of them

510
00:25:31,764 --> 00:25:34,924
Speaker 2: need to close. I mean they're they're bringing the devil's

511
00:25:34,965 --> 00:25:36,884
Speaker 2: flag out of the closet and flight at high on

512
00:25:36,925 --> 00:25:40,804
Speaker 2: their building and involved in issues that are not the

513
00:25:40,844 --> 00:25:43,804
Speaker 2: gospel and the fulfillment may commission. So I would say

514
00:25:43,804 --> 00:25:46,445
Speaker 2: to people, you know, find a great local church that

515
00:25:46,524 --> 00:25:51,244
Speaker 2: exalts Christ, preaches the Bible, disciples people in groups and

516
00:25:51,324 --> 00:25:54,604
Speaker 2: small groups, and but be in a church that is

517
00:25:54,645 --> 00:25:57,964
Speaker 2: fulfilling the mission of Jesus, because many, unfortunately are not.

518
00:25:58,564 --> 00:26:01,325
Speaker 1: You know, we've talked about Billy Graham a few times.

519
00:26:01,804 --> 00:26:04,284
Speaker 1: You know, he was once asked, what is the greatest

520
00:26:04,324 --> 00:26:08,644
Speaker 1: regret of your life? And he said, I wished I

521
00:26:08,965 --> 00:26:12,205
Speaker 1: had not traveled so much. I wish they spent more

522
00:26:12,284 --> 00:26:16,284
Speaker 1: time in prayer and worship and telling the Lord how

523
00:26:16,405 --> 00:26:19,445
Speaker 1: wonderful he is. When you look back in your life,

524
00:26:19,484 --> 00:26:22,205
Speaker 1: do you have any regrets in other which would you

525
00:26:22,284 --> 00:26:25,085
Speaker 1: do some things differently if you had it to do over.

526
00:26:25,365 --> 00:26:28,164
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know maybe. At our ages we get that

527
00:26:28,244 --> 00:26:30,685
Speaker 2: question a lot, and I respect that question. It's a

528
00:26:30,725 --> 00:26:33,524
Speaker 2: good one, and so I don't want to sound totally

529
00:26:33,604 --> 00:26:37,205
Speaker 2: arrogant on this answer, but I don't have a lot

530
00:26:37,244 --> 00:26:41,645
Speaker 2: of regrets, not big ones, for sure. Are there things

531
00:26:41,685 --> 00:26:45,524
Speaker 2: I could have should have done better? Absolutely yes, And

532
00:26:45,725 --> 00:26:48,564
Speaker 2: decisions that I made along the way that didn't work out,

533
00:26:48,685 --> 00:26:52,685
Speaker 2: for sure. But when I look back, I've thought long

534
00:26:52,725 --> 00:26:57,805
Speaker 2: and hard. Because there's that question, what would the seventy

535
00:26:57,925 --> 00:27:00,324
Speaker 2: year old Jack Graham seventy five now say to the

536
00:27:00,405 --> 00:27:02,925
Speaker 2: twenty five year old Jack Graham. And here's what I

537
00:27:02,965 --> 00:27:06,284
Speaker 2: would say, And I mean this so sincerely. I would say,

538
00:27:06,645 --> 00:27:09,165
Speaker 2: young Jack Graham, It's worth it.

539
00:27:09,484 --> 00:27:09,965
Speaker 1: Yeah.

540
00:27:10,004 --> 00:27:13,524
Speaker 2: Wow, I love that. It's worth it and whatever the cause,

541
00:27:13,604 --> 00:27:15,924
Speaker 2: the challenge is that the call of God upon my

542
00:27:16,044 --> 00:27:19,564
Speaker 2: life and seeing that fulfilled. And I hope I would

543
00:27:19,564 --> 00:27:22,965
Speaker 2: say that if I was pastoring a country church in Oklahoma.

544
00:27:23,244 --> 00:27:25,884
Speaker 2: But the call of God is because it's not just

545
00:27:26,004 --> 00:27:28,925
Speaker 2: the big church. And I don't even like the term megachurch,

546
00:27:28,965 --> 00:27:31,244
Speaker 2: because your right, it is pejorative in many ways. It's

547
00:27:31,604 --> 00:27:33,364
Speaker 2: now if you're talking about this is the word great

548
00:27:33,405 --> 00:27:35,844
Speaker 2: in the New Testama, great church, and they're you know,

549
00:27:35,925 --> 00:27:39,284
Speaker 2: great in reaching people, great heart for the gospel, great

550
00:27:39,365 --> 00:27:41,804
Speaker 2: numbers of people coming to faith in Christ. They celebrated

551
00:27:41,885 --> 00:27:44,205
Speaker 2: that in the Book of Acts. But I hope I

552
00:27:44,205 --> 00:27:46,645
Speaker 2: would say, regardless of the sized church I've been able

553
00:27:46,685 --> 00:27:48,925
Speaker 2: to pastor, or the people that we've been able to reach,

554
00:27:49,004 --> 00:27:54,004
Speaker 2: that it is truly worth it to follow Christ. But

555
00:27:54,084 --> 00:27:56,805
Speaker 2: you spoke of Adrian. Adrian Rogers had a great statement

556
00:27:56,844 --> 00:27:59,244
Speaker 2: if he said, if I had a thousand lives, I'd

557
00:27:59,244 --> 00:28:02,364
Speaker 2: give every one of them to Jesus. And so the

558
00:28:02,484 --> 00:28:05,844
Speaker 2: same was true for me in terms of ministry. If

559
00:28:05,645 --> 00:28:07,804
Speaker 2: if I could do this again, yeah, I wish I

560
00:28:07,804 --> 00:28:10,044
Speaker 2: could do it again. It's worth it.

561
00:28:10,685 --> 00:28:13,365
Speaker 1: Well, you can pass these things on to feateful men

562
00:28:13,365 --> 00:28:16,084
Speaker 1: who will be able to teach others. And so, no,

563
00:28:16,244 --> 00:28:18,284
Speaker 1: we can't do it again, but we can certainly do

564
00:28:18,365 --> 00:28:22,764
Speaker 1: our best to inspire others, mentor others, yep, et cetera.

565
00:28:23,084 --> 00:28:25,324
Speaker 1: And I kind of feel the same way as you do,

566
00:28:25,484 --> 00:28:28,484
Speaker 1: of course, knowing like you know, if I can speak

567
00:28:28,524 --> 00:28:30,605
Speaker 1: to a younger Greg, i'd say, hey, you know, when

568
00:28:30,645 --> 00:28:33,124
Speaker 1: Star Wars comes out the first time, go out and

569
00:28:33,125 --> 00:28:34,924
Speaker 1: buy a bunch of those toys and keep them an

570
00:28:34,925 --> 00:28:38,325
Speaker 1: original package, Jean, because they'll be worth a lot of money.

571
00:28:38,365 --> 00:28:40,525
Speaker 2: Save your baseball cards and sound them, you know, all

572
00:28:40,604 --> 00:28:41,045
Speaker 2: those things.

573
00:28:41,084 --> 00:28:44,285
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, but you know, we we knew what we knew,

574
00:28:44,285 --> 00:28:46,445
Speaker 1: and we did what we did, and we learned what

575
00:28:46,485 --> 00:28:49,325
Speaker 1: we learned. I did a message called what I would

576
00:28:49,365 --> 00:28:51,525
Speaker 1: say to my younger self. I'd love to hear your

577
00:28:51,604 --> 00:28:53,005
Speaker 1: treatment of that same topic.

578
00:28:53,125 --> 00:28:54,124
Speaker 2: Now I should do that.

579
00:28:54,245 --> 00:28:56,404
Speaker 1: Yeah, that'd be a good one. But one of the

580
00:28:56,445 --> 00:28:58,364
Speaker 1: things I said I would say to a younger me

581
00:28:58,485 --> 00:29:01,045
Speaker 1: is it's going to be okay, because when you're young,

582
00:29:01,525 --> 00:29:05,325
Speaker 1: everything is so magnified. You know, you're single, then you're married,

583
00:29:05,485 --> 00:29:09,245
Speaker 1: when you have your first child, then you have your ministry,

584
00:29:09,285 --> 00:29:11,685
Speaker 1: and what if this and what if that? There's a

585
00:29:11,765 --> 00:29:14,565
Speaker 1: lot of things that can cause anxiety and fear. And

586
00:29:14,965 --> 00:29:17,364
Speaker 1: I know it sounds overly simplistic, but it's going to

587
00:29:17,445 --> 00:29:20,765
Speaker 1: be okay, meaning God's in control of our life. Yeah,

588
00:29:20,925 --> 00:29:24,325
Speaker 1: don't sweat the small stuff. One of my favorite verses

589
00:29:24,445 --> 00:29:28,725
Speaker 1: is Philippians, where Paul says, don't worry about anything, pray

590
00:29:28,805 --> 00:29:31,884
Speaker 1: about everything, and the peace of God that passes all

591
00:29:32,005 --> 00:29:36,445
Speaker 1: human understanding will guard guard. And the idea is mounting

592
00:29:36,685 --> 00:29:41,245
Speaker 1: a sentry, putting a Roman soldier by your mind will

593
00:29:41,285 --> 00:29:44,404
Speaker 1: guard your heart and minding Christ Jesus and and you

594
00:29:44,445 --> 00:29:46,565
Speaker 1: know God is in control and you can trust him.

595
00:29:46,604 --> 00:29:49,285
Speaker 1: And boy, I agree, it has been worth it and

596
00:29:49,365 --> 00:29:52,565
Speaker 1: it's a it's a privilege and and so like if

597
00:29:52,604 --> 00:29:54,925
Speaker 1: you were going to give one last sermon, okay, this

598
00:29:55,005 --> 00:29:57,924
Speaker 1: is your last sermon, this is it? What would your

599
00:29:57,925 --> 00:29:58,325
Speaker 1: preach on?

600
00:29:58,765 --> 00:30:02,565
Speaker 2: Four words? Jesus Christ is lords Wow, you know, it's

601
00:30:02,645 --> 00:30:06,445
Speaker 2: the lordship of Christ. And my latest book is not

602
00:30:06,485 --> 00:30:08,364
Speaker 2: that new now, but a year ago I published a

603
00:30:08,365 --> 00:30:11,245
Speaker 2: book called the Jesus Book. And the reason I called

604
00:30:11,285 --> 00:30:13,885
Speaker 2: it the Jesus Book obviously it's the Bible is God's book,

605
00:30:13,885 --> 00:30:17,485
Speaker 2: it's the Holy Scripture. But you know when Jesus was

606
00:30:17,525 --> 00:30:20,885
Speaker 2: walking after the Resurrection with those disciples on the road

607
00:30:20,925 --> 00:30:23,925
Speaker 2: to Emmaeas it says he showed them and all those scriptures,

608
00:30:23,965 --> 00:30:26,525
Speaker 2: that all the scriptures are explained to them, and all

609
00:30:26,565 --> 00:30:29,884
Speaker 2: the scriptures the things concerning himself. That's what that was,

610
00:30:29,885 --> 00:30:33,124
Speaker 2: obviously Old Testament scriptures. So he what a walk that was,

611
00:30:34,325 --> 00:30:37,164
Speaker 2: and an explanation of whether he took him to Abraham

612
00:30:37,245 --> 00:30:40,125
Speaker 2: and Isaac on the mountain, back to creation, the whole

613
00:30:40,165 --> 00:30:42,084
Speaker 2: story of the Bible. And he points out that this

614
00:30:42,205 --> 00:30:44,045
Speaker 2: is all about me. So that's why I called it

615
00:30:45,485 --> 00:30:49,245
Speaker 2: the Jesus Book, because ultimately the book is about the

616
00:30:49,285 --> 00:30:52,204
Speaker 2: story of Jesus, both Old Testament and New Testament. The

617
00:30:52,205 --> 00:30:55,565
Speaker 2: one who is coming is prophesied coming again in the end,

618
00:30:56,285 --> 00:30:58,844
Speaker 2: So that would be my message. I mean, I'm a

619
00:30:58,965 --> 00:31:01,725
Speaker 2: Jesus preacher, and I had a wonderful pastor mentor. You

620
00:31:01,765 --> 00:31:04,245
Speaker 2: mentioned some of my mentors in life, but I had

621
00:31:04,285 --> 00:31:07,245
Speaker 2: a wonderful pastor past the same church forty three years

622
00:31:07,365 --> 00:31:10,844
Speaker 2: and he taught me those truths and including the truths

623
00:31:10,965 --> 00:31:13,925
Speaker 2: of the work of the Holy Spirit. You know, Baptist

624
00:31:14,005 --> 00:31:16,285
Speaker 2: typically back when I was coming up, didn't speak about

625
00:31:16,285 --> 00:31:19,364
Speaker 2: the Holy Spirit very much the missing person. But you know,

626
00:31:19,445 --> 00:31:22,325
Speaker 2: there was a movement among many Southern Baptists in the

627
00:31:22,445 --> 00:31:26,805
Speaker 2: nineteen sixties kind of related to the Jesus movement as

628
00:31:26,844 --> 00:31:28,565
Speaker 2: to the work of the Holy Spirit and to be

629
00:31:28,604 --> 00:31:31,765
Speaker 2: filled with the Holy Spirit. And so that you know

630
00:31:31,925 --> 00:31:34,404
Speaker 2: is a life thing for me. Is whether you call

631
00:31:34,445 --> 00:31:37,565
Speaker 2: it the exchange life or the spirit faled life, let's

632
00:31:37,604 --> 00:31:39,885
Speaker 2: just call it the Christian life. It's the life where

633
00:31:40,445 --> 00:31:41,445
Speaker 2: we're called to live.

634
00:31:41,765 --> 00:31:45,445
Speaker 1: Yeah, so finished this sentence. I am happiest when.

635
00:31:45,445 --> 00:31:51,685
Speaker 2: What I'm happiest when I'm Let's start with my family,

636
00:31:51,925 --> 00:31:55,845
Speaker 2: and we have three children. They're married to great spouses.

637
00:31:57,125 --> 00:31:58,285
Speaker 2: Dev and I have been married.

638
00:31:58,285 --> 00:31:58,485
Speaker 1: Now.

639
00:31:58,565 --> 00:32:02,084
Speaker 2: We got married in college. We were college sweethearts. We

640
00:32:02,084 --> 00:32:04,404
Speaker 2: were both nineteen. We got married probably too young, but

641
00:32:04,445 --> 00:32:07,205
Speaker 2: it's worked out that these six years later we have

642
00:32:07,245 --> 00:32:10,685
Speaker 2: a great marriage and and we were just with everybody

643
00:32:10,725 --> 00:32:13,844
Speaker 2: the other year. So they're eight, the grade eight. We

644
00:32:13,965 --> 00:32:16,005
Speaker 2: got the sweet sixteen that's all of us, and then

645
00:32:16,005 --> 00:32:19,045
Speaker 2: the grade eight. So I mean, honest to goodness, I'm happiest.

646
00:32:19,765 --> 00:32:23,245
Speaker 2: But I would also say, you know, I'm happiest when

647
00:32:24,365 --> 00:32:27,205
Speaker 2: let's go back to your pulpit illustration and God's pleasure.

648
00:32:27,325 --> 00:32:32,325
Speaker 2: When you are preaching, you think about I've got to talk.

649
00:32:32,365 --> 00:32:36,565
Speaker 2: I give to preachers calls the audacity of preaching, because

650
00:32:36,685 --> 00:32:39,485
Speaker 2: it's an audacious thing to think that people would actually

651
00:32:39,485 --> 00:32:42,364
Speaker 2: come to hear us speak, you know, and and stay

652
00:32:42,365 --> 00:32:44,884
Speaker 2: and come back, and then support it with times and offerings.

653
00:32:45,285 --> 00:32:48,604
Speaker 2: And because God's people are many are so hungry for

654
00:32:48,645 --> 00:32:50,084
Speaker 2: the Bible. They want to know, and if there's a

655
00:32:50,084 --> 00:32:56,045
Speaker 2: faithful pastor there delivering God's word, then then it's But

656
00:32:56,205 --> 00:32:59,604
Speaker 2: it is an audacious thing. And to think that of

657
00:32:59,645 --> 00:33:01,845
Speaker 2: all the things of the world that we get to do,

658
00:33:01,925 --> 00:33:04,404
Speaker 2: greg we get to get up every day with and

659
00:33:04,445 --> 00:33:07,204
Speaker 2: every Christian cannon should, but we get to get up

660
00:33:07,245 --> 00:33:11,604
Speaker 2: every day lead God's church, shepherd God's people, preach the gospel,

661
00:33:12,125 --> 00:33:14,725
Speaker 2: training the next generation, disciple, all the things that we

662
00:33:14,844 --> 00:33:19,605
Speaker 2: get to do. It is a privilege. There's an old

663
00:33:19,604 --> 00:33:22,445
Speaker 2: book that I read called Trumpets in the Morning, and

664
00:33:22,844 --> 00:33:24,725
Speaker 2: it's not a great book, but it's a great title,

665
00:33:24,844 --> 00:33:27,925
Speaker 2: and it's about hearing the trumpets in the morning. Because

666
00:33:27,965 --> 00:33:32,765
Speaker 2: the author had interviewed a pastor who had had defaulted

667
00:33:32,844 --> 00:33:35,364
Speaker 2: and he was out of ministry, and he said, is

668
00:33:35,405 --> 00:33:40,485
Speaker 2: there anything you miss in the ministry, and the guy thought,

669
00:33:40,525 --> 00:33:42,125
Speaker 2: he said, well, there's a lot of things I don't

670
00:33:42,165 --> 00:33:45,924
Speaker 2: miss meetings and whatever he said, But he said, I'll

671
00:33:45,925 --> 00:33:48,245
Speaker 2: tell you what I miss. I miss the trumpets in

672
00:33:48,285 --> 00:33:52,605
Speaker 2: the morning, meaning to hear every day that revelry call

673
00:33:53,005 --> 00:33:56,285
Speaker 2: from God to get up every day and be on

674
00:33:56,885 --> 00:33:59,045
Speaker 2: mission for Christ. I mean that's you know, I think

675
00:33:59,125 --> 00:34:01,364
Speaker 2: we I know I would miss the trumpets in the morning.

676
00:34:02,205 --> 00:34:02,405
Speaker 1: Good.

677
00:34:02,485 --> 00:34:03,165
Speaker 2: It's a good thing.

678
00:34:03,525 --> 00:34:06,765
Speaker 1: Now you mentioned your marriage to Deb. You know what

679
00:34:06,965 --> 00:34:11,405
Speaker 1: is the secret to a long lasting and happy marriage,

680
00:34:11,445 --> 00:34:14,205
Speaker 1: which I you know you certainly have. Kathy and I

681
00:34:14,285 --> 00:34:15,885
Speaker 1: have spent a lot of time with you guys in

682
00:34:15,925 --> 00:34:18,765
Speaker 1: different places, and I can see that you love each

683
00:34:18,805 --> 00:34:21,445
Speaker 1: other so much. How do you keep your marriage strong

684
00:34:21,485 --> 00:34:21,965
Speaker 1: and healthy?

685
00:34:22,085 --> 00:34:25,165
Speaker 2: We're just together a lot, and we have fun and

686
00:34:25,165 --> 00:34:29,285
Speaker 2: and you know we're we're part of the same calling.

687
00:34:29,445 --> 00:34:32,085
Speaker 2: Even though we were very young, Deb coming right out

688
00:34:32,125 --> 00:34:35,085
Speaker 2: of high school, really she sense that God wanted her

689
00:34:35,125 --> 00:34:37,445
Speaker 2: to We used to call it special service, that God

690
00:34:37,645 --> 00:34:41,045
Speaker 2: was call you to a ministry calling. And we share that.

691
00:34:41,965 --> 00:34:47,405
Speaker 2: So it's it's alignment, yeah, is that our lives are

692
00:34:47,445 --> 00:34:50,884
Speaker 2: aligned in God's call and we're compatible. We like each other.

693
00:34:51,485 --> 00:34:53,325
Speaker 2: I say, to couples when a counselor and get married,

694
00:34:53,325 --> 00:34:55,285
Speaker 2: you got you love each other. There's all that passion

695
00:34:55,325 --> 00:34:56,925
Speaker 2: and love that you have. But I mean, you really

696
00:34:57,005 --> 00:35:00,325
Speaker 2: need to like each other and have fun together and

697
00:35:00,485 --> 00:35:03,805
Speaker 2: enjoy your life. And so I don't know that there's

698
00:35:03,805 --> 00:35:05,924
Speaker 2: a great secret as far as we're concerned, and other

699
00:35:06,045 --> 00:35:08,605
Speaker 2: than you know, we when we got married, we discarded

700
00:35:08,605 --> 00:35:10,925
Speaker 2: the word divorce. We cut it out of the vocabulary.

701
00:35:11,005 --> 00:35:14,725
Speaker 2: And and you know, back to Billy Graham, you know,

702
00:35:14,805 --> 00:35:16,725
Speaker 2: Ruth used to say his wife used to say, we

703
00:35:16,805 --> 00:35:20,405
Speaker 2: never considered divorce. Murder a few times, but not divorce.

704
00:35:20,445 --> 00:35:24,205
Speaker 2: And so but you know, we've we've had arguments, of course,

705
00:35:24,245 --> 00:35:28,805
Speaker 2: and well you know, not arguments but discussions. Maybe you

706
00:35:28,845 --> 00:35:32,485
Speaker 2: can hear a block away sometimes. But we've got a

707
00:35:32,485 --> 00:35:35,005
Speaker 2: great marriage out. And you know, one of the things

708
00:35:35,005 --> 00:35:37,525
Speaker 2: that you know, the summer we got married, we both

709
00:35:37,685 --> 00:35:43,365
Speaker 2: experienced tragedy in our lives. My father was viciously murdered

710
00:35:43,925 --> 00:35:46,645
Speaker 2: the summer of our marriage, and then eighteen months later,

711
00:35:46,725 --> 00:35:50,085
Speaker 2: her dad, forty three years of age, died of melanoma cancer.

712
00:35:50,925 --> 00:35:53,085
Speaker 2: So in the first two years of our marriage, we

713
00:35:53,165 --> 00:35:55,605
Speaker 2: lost both of our fathers, and so we had to

714
00:35:55,645 --> 00:35:59,245
Speaker 2: grow up in a hurry. But you know that probably

715
00:35:59,285 --> 00:36:01,925
Speaker 2: solidified our marriage and strength and adversity.

716
00:36:02,165 --> 00:36:05,245
Speaker 1: Right, let's talk about that tragic event. You're twenty years

717
00:36:05,245 --> 00:36:08,885
Speaker 1: old and your father is murdered. What happened exactly?

718
00:36:08,965 --> 00:36:11,565
Speaker 2: Well, I was actually preaching in a little town in

719
00:36:11,605 --> 00:36:15,725
Speaker 2: West Texas and no cell phones in those days. I

720
00:36:15,725 --> 00:36:17,565
Speaker 2: had one of those little pink slips that says, call

721
00:36:17,645 --> 00:36:20,565
Speaker 2: your brother, and so I thought something's up here, and

722
00:36:20,605 --> 00:36:22,725
Speaker 2: I went to a phone booth, actually put money in

723
00:36:22,765 --> 00:36:25,485
Speaker 2: the phone booth. Now we sound like dinosaurs. Money in

724
00:36:25,525 --> 00:36:29,285
Speaker 2: the phone booth. And my brother said, hey, you know,

725
00:36:29,445 --> 00:36:31,765
Speaker 2: our dad's been hurt. I said, hurt. What do you mean? Said, well,

726
00:36:31,765 --> 00:36:35,205
Speaker 2: he's been hit with a hammer. And what had happened

727
00:36:35,205 --> 00:36:38,205
Speaker 2: my dad, who was definitely a blue collar guy, We

728
00:36:38,205 --> 00:36:41,485
Speaker 2: were very very close he you know, I loved my

729
00:36:41,565 --> 00:36:43,805
Speaker 2: dad so much, but you know, he was just he

730
00:36:43,885 --> 00:36:46,805
Speaker 2: wasn't a preacher, you know, he was just a guy.

731
00:36:47,125 --> 00:36:51,165
Speaker 2: And he was working a hardware store and a shoplifter

732
00:36:51,285 --> 00:36:54,285
Speaker 2: came in and in the end, I won't go into

733
00:36:54,365 --> 00:36:56,884
Speaker 2: the details, but the hammer ended up in the hand

734
00:36:56,925 --> 00:36:59,925
Speaker 2: of this shoplifter and my dad slipped and fell in

735
00:37:00,005 --> 00:37:03,005
Speaker 2: the tussle and he began to bludgeon him with his hammer.

736
00:37:03,045 --> 00:37:06,045
Speaker 2: So we drived it forth. Dev actually picks me up.

737
00:37:06,085 --> 00:37:08,525
Speaker 2: We drive to Fort Worth very quickly where this happened,

738
00:37:09,685 --> 00:37:12,925
Speaker 2: and for ten days we waited. He never regained consciousness,

739
00:37:14,445 --> 00:37:17,285
Speaker 2: and it was just a devastating blow to my mother,

740
00:37:17,325 --> 00:37:19,405
Speaker 2: who was just in fifty four years of my dad

741
00:37:19,485 --> 00:37:22,365
Speaker 2: was just fifty six. Actually my mother was late forties.

742
00:37:22,365 --> 00:37:27,525
Speaker 2: So it just devastated our family. And I remember being

743
00:37:27,645 --> 00:37:30,685
Speaker 2: in the little chapel of that hospital of the night

744
00:37:30,725 --> 00:37:33,645
Speaker 2: he died. They told us he's gone, and I go

745
00:37:33,765 --> 00:37:36,685
Speaker 2: down there, and you've experienced tragedy at a much greater

746
00:37:36,805 --> 00:37:38,485
Speaker 2: level than this. I mean, it's one thing to lose

747
00:37:38,525 --> 00:37:40,884
Speaker 2: a parent, to lose it say goodbye to a child,

748
00:37:40,965 --> 00:37:44,485
Speaker 2: and that's remible, you know, that's reverse. But I mean,

749
00:37:44,605 --> 00:37:47,485
Speaker 2: here we are victims of a violent crime. It's something

750
00:37:47,525 --> 00:37:49,685
Speaker 2: you see on television, you know, in the news, and

751
00:37:49,725 --> 00:37:52,845
Speaker 2: now it's us. We're you know, we're our father or

752
00:37:52,845 --> 00:37:57,245
Speaker 2: a husband is murdered. And I remember getting down on

753
00:37:57,285 --> 00:37:59,685
Speaker 2: my knees in that little I'm grateful that hospital still

754
00:37:59,725 --> 00:38:02,325
Speaker 2: have places where you can go and pray for family.

755
00:38:02,405 --> 00:38:04,645
Speaker 2: So but I ended up by myself in that chapel

756
00:38:04,685 --> 00:38:09,685
Speaker 2: that night, again barely twenty years old, young preacher, and

757
00:38:09,765 --> 00:38:12,885
Speaker 2: I remember just laying out saying, you know, I wasn't

758
00:38:12,925 --> 00:38:15,525
Speaker 2: asking the wine question. I mean later on, you know,

759
00:38:15,565 --> 00:38:18,405
Speaker 2: the wine question has come always, But it was what

760
00:38:18,645 --> 00:38:21,005
Speaker 2: in the world and how am I going to respond?

761
00:38:21,565 --> 00:38:23,805
Speaker 2: And am I going to let this destroy me with

762
00:38:23,925 --> 00:38:26,605
Speaker 2: bitterness and anger towards the purp who killed my father?

763
00:38:26,845 --> 00:38:28,965
Speaker 2: Or am I going to get up from here? And

764
00:38:29,045 --> 00:38:31,205
Speaker 2: I can tell you I don't know. I didn't hear

765
00:38:31,245 --> 00:38:34,645
Speaker 2: angel wings, but I didn't hear voices. But that dark night,

766
00:38:34,725 --> 00:38:37,245
Speaker 2: it was a Friday night, when my father died as

767
00:38:37,245 --> 00:38:41,525
Speaker 2: a result of this murder, it something happened in me

768
00:38:41,765 --> 00:38:45,005
Speaker 2: that I do think prepared me for a life and

769
00:38:45,045 --> 00:38:46,925
Speaker 2: the calling that God had given me and I we

770
00:38:47,005 --> 00:38:50,485
Speaker 2: had never experienced tragedy. I was just a kid, but

771
00:38:50,605 --> 00:38:53,805
Speaker 2: now we had. And so what does the scripture say?

772
00:38:53,805 --> 00:38:55,565
Speaker 2: The God of all comfort, with the comfort that he

773
00:38:55,645 --> 00:38:58,685
Speaker 2: comforts us, enables us to comfort others. So I think

774
00:38:58,685 --> 00:39:01,445
Speaker 2: I became a better man, a better preacher, a better husband,

775
00:39:01,485 --> 00:39:04,085
Speaker 2: a better everything. I wouldn't want it to happen. I

776
00:39:04,085 --> 00:39:07,965
Speaker 2: still wondered why, why my dad never saw these grandkids,

777
00:39:08,045 --> 00:39:10,165
Speaker 2: you know. But why did it happen? I don't know.

778
00:39:11,125 --> 00:39:15,125
Speaker 2: But we live in an evil fallen world where accidents happened,

779
00:39:15,165 --> 00:39:19,045
Speaker 2: where violence happens. So somehow in the providences and the

780
00:39:19,085 --> 00:39:21,005
Speaker 2: plans of God, this was in the plan. We will

781
00:39:21,085 --> 00:39:24,205
Speaker 2: know better on the other side, and we're there a

782
00:39:24,205 --> 00:39:27,365
Speaker 2: lot longer than this side, so we'll let God figure out.

783
00:39:27,405 --> 00:39:29,125
Speaker 2: But the main thing I had to deal with was

784
00:39:29,405 --> 00:39:33,844
Speaker 2: just not getting angry and bitter towards the person. And

785
00:39:34,045 --> 00:39:36,605
Speaker 2: the person was of another race who killed my father,

786
00:39:36,765 --> 00:39:40,325
Speaker 2: so he could have gone that direction of anger towards

787
00:39:40,365 --> 00:39:44,965
Speaker 2: a race of people and suspiciously towards other people and category.

788
00:39:45,085 --> 00:39:47,205
Speaker 2: You know, it could have got a lot of different directions.

789
00:39:47,445 --> 00:39:51,005
Speaker 2: But I do believe. I let it go because here's

790
00:39:51,045 --> 00:39:53,404
Speaker 2: what I believe about. And a lot of Christians asked

791
00:39:53,445 --> 00:39:56,485
Speaker 2: this questions when they're hurt, when they're wounded by someone else,

792
00:39:56,525 --> 00:39:59,205
Speaker 2: when you're a victim of a crime, victim of something,

793
00:40:00,005 --> 00:40:01,525
Speaker 2: you know, how do you let that go?

794
00:40:01,645 --> 00:40:01,805
Speaker 1: Well?

795
00:40:01,845 --> 00:40:04,844
Speaker 2: You let God because in the scriptures in the Book

796
00:40:04,845 --> 00:40:07,965
Speaker 2: of Romans says vengeance is mine, says the Lord, And

797
00:40:08,045 --> 00:40:11,165
Speaker 2: so you let God handle that. He'll do a better

798
00:40:11,285 --> 00:40:14,285
Speaker 2: job of vengeance than I could anyway if there needs

799
00:40:14,285 --> 00:40:15,685
Speaker 2: to be vengeance or justice.

800
00:40:16,325 --> 00:40:20,325
Speaker 1: Well, we remember the horrible assassination of Charlie Kirk. Right.

801
00:40:20,445 --> 00:40:24,165
Speaker 1: House wife Erica got up in his memorial service and

802
00:40:24,205 --> 00:40:28,285
Speaker 1: she said, I forgive this man that murdered her husband.

803
00:40:29,125 --> 00:40:32,765
Speaker 1: And Tim Allen, you know who was on tool Time, right,

804
00:40:32,845 --> 00:40:36,645
Speaker 1: the show on television. No Home Improvement, yep, but he

805
00:40:37,005 --> 00:40:39,645
Speaker 1: had another show on a show called tool Time, and

806
00:40:39,725 --> 00:40:44,405
Speaker 1: Tim Allen, hearing that and seeing that, decided to forgive

807
00:40:45,285 --> 00:40:47,605
Speaker 1: the man who killed his father. His father was killed

808
00:40:47,645 --> 00:40:50,685
Speaker 1: in an automobile like sident by a drunken driver, so

809
00:40:50,725 --> 00:40:53,285
Speaker 1: he harbored that resentment. So here's the man that kept

810
00:40:53,365 --> 00:40:57,045
Speaker 1: the bitterness in his life and decided to let it go.

811
00:40:57,165 --> 00:40:59,404
Speaker 1: And it's been said, when you forgive someone, you set

812
00:40:59,405 --> 00:41:04,165
Speaker 1: a prisoner free yourself. It's actually for you because you

813
00:41:04,205 --> 00:41:06,725
Speaker 1: know that person God will do with them, but so

814
00:41:06,845 --> 00:41:09,405
Speaker 1: you don't have to be tormented by that for the

815
00:41:09,445 --> 00:41:10,325
Speaker 1: rest of your life.

816
00:41:10,405 --> 00:41:12,725
Speaker 2: And that's what I think happened to me that night

817
00:41:14,205 --> 00:41:17,285
Speaker 2: when I really surrendered it to the Lord. You know,

818
00:41:17,365 --> 00:41:20,125
Speaker 2: it could have destroyed my ministry, it could have. I mean,

819
00:41:20,165 --> 00:41:23,325
Speaker 2: but I saw this in the end, That's what I mean.

820
00:41:23,605 --> 00:41:27,205
Speaker 2: And and so I did see it ultimately as an

821
00:41:27,205 --> 00:41:29,245
Speaker 2: act of violence that we know where that comes from.

822
00:41:29,805 --> 00:41:32,965
Speaker 2: It was a satatic attack. So maybe Satan, you know,

823
00:41:34,125 --> 00:41:36,965
Speaker 2: would have used that to in the embryoic stages of

824
00:41:37,005 --> 00:41:39,645
Speaker 2: my life and ministry, to take me down. But and

825
00:41:39,765 --> 00:41:44,085
Speaker 2: that night something happened in me that and then later

826
00:41:44,165 --> 00:41:46,565
Speaker 2: on you know, uh, you know, I thought about it.

827
00:41:46,605 --> 00:41:48,445
Speaker 2: But we let it go. We let The other thing

828
00:41:48,485 --> 00:41:51,444
Speaker 2: we did was we let the government the system which

829
00:41:51,445 --> 00:41:53,845
Speaker 2: God has ordained in Romans thirteen. I believe in the

830
00:41:53,885 --> 00:41:57,445
Speaker 2: Bible teaches capital punishment. We let the government handle that.

831
00:41:57,565 --> 00:41:59,884
Speaker 2: I didn't check on the guy, and until a few

832
00:41:59,965 --> 00:42:03,205
Speaker 2: years ago, I never even tried to find him if

833
00:42:03,205 --> 00:42:07,085
Speaker 2: he was still in prison what happened? And so I

834
00:42:07,085 --> 00:42:10,205
Speaker 2: think I truly let it go. And oh and by

835
00:42:10,245 --> 00:42:12,885
Speaker 2: the way, I'm a college student. I was a college

836
00:42:12,925 --> 00:42:15,925
Speaker 2: athlete playing baseball. I was newly married, I was a preacher.

837
00:42:16,325 --> 00:42:18,805
Speaker 2: And in some ways, I just I think you talk

838
00:42:18,845 --> 00:42:21,725
Speaker 2: about regrets, I think I could have grieved better in

839
00:42:21,805 --> 00:42:23,884
Speaker 2: that because maybe I stuffed some of that. I don't

840
00:42:23,925 --> 00:42:26,125
Speaker 2: get all psychological on this, but I just went on

841
00:42:26,165 --> 00:42:29,404
Speaker 2: with my life pretty quickly, and later on I think

842
00:42:29,405 --> 00:42:31,605
Speaker 2: that came back a little bit. But in the end

843
00:42:33,165 --> 00:42:38,045
Speaker 2: it goes back to God uses all things together for

844
00:42:38,085 --> 00:42:40,685
Speaker 2: as good, even bad things and evil things to accomplish

845
00:42:40,685 --> 00:42:43,645
Speaker 2: his purposes to those Yeah.

846
00:42:44,045 --> 00:42:46,445
Speaker 1: You know, I was with you at dinner last night

847
00:42:46,485 --> 00:42:48,805
Speaker 1: and you pulled up your phone and someone had taken

848
00:42:48,845 --> 00:42:52,125
Speaker 1: an old photo of you and your father and they

849
00:42:52,165 --> 00:42:55,005
Speaker 1: did an AI treatment and people have seen this online

850
00:42:55,045 --> 00:42:57,924
Speaker 1: where the people in the photo suddenly come to life.

851
00:42:57,965 --> 00:43:01,365
Speaker 1: And in this photo you're standing next to your father

852
00:43:01,765 --> 00:43:05,725
Speaker 1: and then it enemates and your father hugs you. Yeah,

853
00:43:05,765 --> 00:43:06,685
Speaker 1: you showed that to me.

854
00:43:07,285 --> 00:43:09,445
Speaker 2: That meant something that was tearing me up right now,

855
00:43:10,405 --> 00:43:15,565
Speaker 2: because yeah, it just came alive. And what my first

856
00:43:15,565 --> 00:43:17,685
Speaker 2: thought was, Yeah, it pictures me and my dad there

857
00:43:17,805 --> 00:43:20,285
Speaker 2: and he just smiles. He turns around and hugs me

858
00:43:20,325 --> 00:43:24,405
Speaker 2: and we embrace, and honestly good as my first thought was,

859
00:43:24,525 --> 00:43:29,405
Speaker 2: that's what after I see Jesus and that embrace is

860
00:43:29,445 --> 00:43:32,325
Speaker 2: going to happen, that I will see my father again.

861
00:43:32,605 --> 00:43:35,845
Speaker 2: And that's the promise that for every believer and the

862
00:43:35,885 --> 00:43:37,765
Speaker 2: hope that we have in Christ, that we will be

863
00:43:37,885 --> 00:43:41,285
Speaker 2: reunited with our loved ones and be together forever.

864
00:43:41,285 --> 00:43:44,805
Speaker 1: Very true. So now just some I don't know if

865
00:43:44,845 --> 00:43:49,365
Speaker 1: there's silly questions, but just what is your favorite food?

866
00:43:49,805 --> 00:43:52,005
Speaker 1: I want to go to Beebs fried chicken whenever I'm

867
00:43:52,045 --> 00:43:56,085
Speaker 1: in Texas, which isn't enough, but whenever I'm there, Jack,

868
00:43:56,165 --> 00:43:59,085
Speaker 1: I want to go to be Beeves fried chicken because

869
00:43:59,285 --> 00:44:01,725
Speaker 1: we don't have anything like that in California. Do you

870
00:44:01,885 --> 00:44:04,525
Speaker 1: like Beabes's tried chicken? I love Babes's Fried I thought

871
00:44:04,565 --> 00:44:06,005
Speaker 1: you might be humor me.

872
00:44:06,365 --> 00:44:09,285
Speaker 2: No, no, no, no no, the Babes fried chicken is

873
00:44:09,285 --> 00:44:12,165
Speaker 2: is the greatest you got to put. Bit a Southern boy,

874
00:44:12,365 --> 00:44:15,245
Speaker 2: I would say fried chicken and mashed potatoes would be

875
00:44:15,285 --> 00:44:17,765
Speaker 2: right up there. Yeah, yeah, that would be good.

876
00:44:17,925 --> 00:44:21,045
Speaker 1: So I asked Marco Rubia what are your favorite foods

877
00:44:21,485 --> 00:44:25,645
Speaker 1: to go to? And he said chicken, palm, and pizza.

878
00:44:26,005 --> 00:44:30,245
Speaker 2: Yeah that makes sense. Yeah, I'm a pizza fan as well.

879
00:44:31,485 --> 00:44:33,405
Speaker 1: Who doesn't laughai food? You know?

880
00:44:33,485 --> 00:44:37,485
Speaker 2: The Battle of the Balls is a lifetime Oh yeah yeah, So.

881
00:44:36,925 --> 00:44:38,405
Speaker 1: So what makes you laugh?

882
00:44:38,965 --> 00:44:42,605
Speaker 2: You you make me laugh. I'm happy to hear that.

883
00:44:42,725 --> 00:44:44,805
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, no, no, You've got you've got a natural

884
00:44:44,845 --> 00:44:47,565
Speaker 2: sense of humor that I love. But no, I tell

885
00:44:47,565 --> 00:44:51,965
Speaker 2: you What makes me laugh would uh would be seeing

886
00:44:51,965 --> 00:44:55,165
Speaker 2: my grandchildren do something funny. You know, that's that's that's good.

887
00:44:55,405 --> 00:44:56,525
Speaker 1: What would make you angry?

888
00:44:57,925 --> 00:45:02,245
Speaker 2: Uh? You know what makes me angry is is you know,

889
00:45:02,325 --> 00:45:04,205
Speaker 2: just on a very practical level, I know we're trying

890
00:45:04,205 --> 00:45:06,485
Speaker 2: to get to that too. I mean, rude people make

891
00:45:06,525 --> 00:45:12,165
Speaker 2: me angry. People selfish people make me angry. As pastors,

892
00:45:12,205 --> 00:45:15,165
Speaker 2: I know, in the big scheme of things we should say,

893
00:45:15,285 --> 00:45:17,085
Speaker 2: and I do believe this, you know, sin should make

894
00:45:17,165 --> 00:45:20,605
Speaker 2: us angry. There's a righteous anger, but on a personal level,

895
00:45:20,645 --> 00:45:22,245
Speaker 2: we got to try to control that anger. And I

896
00:45:22,725 --> 00:45:24,245
Speaker 2: don't want to be irritable. I don't want to be

897
00:45:24,285 --> 00:45:27,805
Speaker 2: that old guy that's constantly cranky. You get off my lawn.

898
00:45:28,365 --> 00:45:30,805
Speaker 1: I know, one day you wake up and you're literally

899
00:45:31,005 --> 00:45:34,165
Speaker 1: the old guy and you're doing old guy things, the

900
00:45:34,325 --> 00:45:37,965
Speaker 1: predictable old guy things, because I say, well, I'm going

901
00:45:38,005 --> 00:45:39,965
Speaker 1: to be a different kind of an old guy. But

902
00:45:40,005 --> 00:45:42,325
Speaker 1: then you do the old guy things. Yeah.

903
00:45:42,365 --> 00:45:45,125
Speaker 2: But yeah, even our generation, the boomers, you know, we

904
00:45:45,485 --> 00:45:50,485
Speaker 2: switched up. What do your grandchildren call you, Greg Papa? Yeah, Papa,

905
00:45:50,525 --> 00:45:52,565
Speaker 2: which is kind of an old school name, was a

906
00:45:52,565 --> 00:45:55,605
Speaker 2: good one, but it's nice, not Grandpa. I didn't want

907
00:45:55,645 --> 00:45:57,245
Speaker 2: to be grandpa, so I'm Daddy Jack.

908
00:45:57,605 --> 00:45:57,805
Speaker 1: You know.

909
00:45:57,965 --> 00:46:00,805
Speaker 2: So we want cool grandparent names, but southern.

910
00:46:00,845 --> 00:46:02,685
Speaker 1: I mean because when I was a kid living with

911
00:46:02,685 --> 00:46:06,325
Speaker 1: my grandparents, I call my grandfather Daddy Charge okay, because

912
00:46:06,325 --> 00:46:09,245
Speaker 1: that was his name. Yeah, And my grandmother was Mama Stella.

913
00:46:09,405 --> 00:46:11,085
Speaker 2: Okay, you know, so that works. Yeah.

914
00:46:11,165 --> 00:46:15,565
Speaker 1: Yeah. And Franklin his kids, you know, called Billy Daddy Bill.

915
00:46:15,925 --> 00:46:20,685
Speaker 1: So that's very much. Okay, good, I like that too. Yeah.

916
00:46:20,725 --> 00:46:23,285
Speaker 1: So you've written a book about angels, and I'm very

917
00:46:23,325 --> 00:46:27,405
Speaker 1: I'm fascinated with angels. And so when you were writing

918
00:46:27,485 --> 00:46:30,525
Speaker 1: this book that you discover something you had not known before,

919
00:46:31,245 --> 00:46:34,165
Speaker 1: or what like, what standout thing comes to mind when

920
00:46:34,205 --> 00:46:35,485
Speaker 1: we think of angels.

921
00:46:35,125 --> 00:46:38,205
Speaker 2: Big picture of the engagement and involvement of angels in

922
00:46:38,245 --> 00:46:41,445
Speaker 2: our lives. I remember I had written a book called Unseen,

923
00:46:41,525 --> 00:46:43,125
Speaker 2: about the unseen things of the world, and I had

924
00:46:43,165 --> 00:46:46,525
Speaker 2: a chapter on angels. And that chapter became when I

925
00:46:46,565 --> 00:46:48,565
Speaker 2: would get interviewed about the book, everybody wanted to ask

926
00:46:48,565 --> 00:46:50,285
Speaker 2: me about the angels, and I saw, well, there's an

927
00:46:50,325 --> 00:46:54,325
Speaker 2: extreme interest people want to know about the angels. And

928
00:46:55,125 --> 00:46:57,404
Speaker 2: but they came to me and said, would you write

929
00:46:57,405 --> 00:47:00,005
Speaker 2: a book about angels, and I said, absolutely not. I said,

930
00:47:00,125 --> 00:47:02,245
Speaker 2: it's kind of a fringe subject, and that's just what

931
00:47:02,325 --> 00:47:04,125
Speaker 2: I said. Then I said, you know, and they're weird

932
00:47:04,165 --> 00:47:06,685
Speaker 2: stuff out there about the angels, and I don't want

933
00:47:06,725 --> 00:47:09,884
Speaker 2: to be the angel guy, you know, So I said

934
00:47:09,925 --> 00:47:13,405
Speaker 2: absolutely not. But then I had a breakfast meeting with

935
00:47:13,965 --> 00:47:17,445
Speaker 2: the fellow who was my book agent at the time

936
00:47:17,485 --> 00:47:19,805
Speaker 2: who just passed away, Robert Walgome. And you worked with

937
00:47:19,925 --> 00:47:23,445
Speaker 2: Robert in the past and other yeah, and his wife's

938
00:47:23,525 --> 00:47:25,685
Speaker 2: name at that time was Bobby. She passed away, in fact,

939
00:47:25,685 --> 00:47:29,485
Speaker 2: she was dying, and she was wanting to convince me

940
00:47:29,565 --> 00:47:33,165
Speaker 2: to do this book on angels, and she said, because look,

941
00:47:33,285 --> 00:47:35,765
Speaker 2: I'm going to see the angels soon and I'd like

942
00:47:35,845 --> 00:47:38,965
Speaker 2: to know more about them. Yeah. I thought, okay, well,

943
00:47:38,965 --> 00:47:40,645
Speaker 2: I'll at least check it out. So then I actually

944
00:47:40,685 --> 00:47:43,685
Speaker 2: got a legal pad and started write. I started looking

945
00:47:43,765 --> 00:47:46,045
Speaker 2: up all the references to angels, and there are over

946
00:47:46,085 --> 00:47:48,925
Speaker 2: three hundred of them in the Bible. They're everywhere in

947
00:47:49,045 --> 00:47:52,245
Speaker 2: the scripture. And so it's not a French subject. It

948
00:47:52,365 --> 00:47:56,005
Speaker 2: is a mainline issue of the unseen world, the supernatural

949
00:47:56,045 --> 00:47:58,765
Speaker 2: world that is all around us. At eight So when

950
00:47:58,805 --> 00:48:01,565
Speaker 2: you say what's the what was the biggest surprise, it

951
00:48:01,605 --> 00:48:05,885
Speaker 2: would be just the predominance of the angels in scripture

952
00:48:05,965 --> 00:48:08,125
Speaker 2: from creation all the way to the end of time,

953
00:48:08,205 --> 00:48:11,404
Speaker 2: the Book of Revelation, everything, and especially around the time

954
00:48:11,445 --> 00:48:13,925
Speaker 2: of the birth of Jesus, the life and ministry of Jesus.

955
00:48:13,925 --> 00:48:17,805
Speaker 2: You say, angels active. And then of course the great

956
00:48:17,845 --> 00:48:21,085
Speaker 2: Psalm ninety one when it speaks of angels. So I

957
00:48:21,085 --> 00:48:23,565
Speaker 2: wrote the book, and you know, I think it's it's

958
00:48:23,845 --> 00:48:26,445
Speaker 2: a decent book. But what I really like is that

959
00:48:26,565 --> 00:48:29,645
Speaker 2: it focused. You know, the angels always point to Jesus.

960
00:48:29,725 --> 00:48:33,085
Speaker 2: They like ci a covert operates. Yes, if you're talking

961
00:48:33,085 --> 00:48:35,525
Speaker 2: too much about the angels, you're missing the point. That's right,

962
00:48:35,565 --> 00:48:38,725
Speaker 2: because the angels are there as worshippers of God in heaven.

963
00:48:38,765 --> 00:48:41,685
Speaker 2: They're witnesses of great things and truth, often of judgment.

964
00:48:41,765 --> 00:48:48,565
Speaker 2: They come with message judgment and they are there witnesses there, worshippers,

965
00:48:49,085 --> 00:48:53,045
Speaker 2: and they are warriors. Because so angels are not little

966
00:48:53,085 --> 00:48:58,285
Speaker 2: cuddly cherubs. They're mighty powerful ninjas that do battle and

967
00:48:58,325 --> 00:49:01,725
Speaker 2: spiritual battle in the world. So that's my message on

968
00:49:01,765 --> 00:49:02,405
Speaker 2: the angel.

969
00:49:02,165 --> 00:49:04,405
Speaker 1: I remember I was talking to my grandkids about angels

970
00:49:04,445 --> 00:49:08,805
Speaker 1: and these that are there any girl angels? Popy said no,

971
00:49:09,805 --> 00:49:12,805
Speaker 1: they didn't because see I have four granddaughters. They weren't

972
00:49:12,805 --> 00:49:16,685
Speaker 1: happy with that answer. That's not fair. Well, at least

973
00:49:16,725 --> 00:49:20,844
Speaker 1: when angels appeared, they appeared in male form as men,

974
00:49:21,645 --> 00:49:24,805
Speaker 1: like after Jesus rose again from the dead. There's so

975
00:49:24,845 --> 00:49:27,805
Speaker 1: many interesting little stories. Remember the story of when Peter

976
00:49:28,045 --> 00:49:30,925
Speaker 1: was in prison in Act twelve and the church started

977
00:49:30,965 --> 00:49:34,325
Speaker 1: praying for him, and the Lord said an angel to

978
00:49:34,365 --> 00:49:36,885
Speaker 1: get him out of prison. The door opened automatically, but

979
00:49:37,005 --> 00:49:40,005
Speaker 1: Peter was so deep in asleep the angel like King James,

980
00:49:40,045 --> 00:49:41,165
Speaker 1: had to smite him like.

981
00:49:41,165 --> 00:49:43,844
Speaker 2: Kind of wake up man, sleep on the scaffold. Yeah,

982
00:49:43,925 --> 00:49:46,365
Speaker 2: he was getting ready to die, but he's in perfecta sleep.

983
00:49:46,485 --> 00:49:49,445
Speaker 1: Yeah. And so he goes to the home of a

984
00:49:49,485 --> 00:49:53,045
Speaker 1: girl named Rhea answers the door and he knocks, and

985
00:49:53,085 --> 00:49:56,085
Speaker 1: they're probably praying for his deliverance. And then the answer

986
00:49:56,165 --> 00:49:58,925
Speaker 1: to their prayer comes to their door and she opens

987
00:49:58,965 --> 00:50:02,925
Speaker 1: the door and sees Peter. Goes and tells the apostles

988
00:50:03,565 --> 00:50:06,365
Speaker 1: and says, Peter's at the door, and I love their response.

989
00:50:06,725 --> 00:50:10,605
Speaker 1: It's just his angel. Well number one, I would answer

990
00:50:10,645 --> 00:50:13,005
Speaker 1: the door for an angel but number two, it raises

991
00:50:13,045 --> 00:50:16,685
Speaker 1: a question, his angel, do you think we have guardian angels?

992
00:50:17,245 --> 00:50:21,405
Speaker 2: I do. There's not a lot of verses on that

993
00:50:21,445 --> 00:50:26,325
Speaker 2: in the Bible. Jesus spoke of a guardian angel with

994
00:50:26,365 --> 00:50:30,924
Speaker 2: a child in the Gospels said their angel. Yeah, yeah,

995
00:50:32,245 --> 00:50:34,165
Speaker 2: But you know one thing. You know, a lot of

996
00:50:34,165 --> 00:50:37,285
Speaker 2: people think people who die turn into angels. That's not true.

997
00:50:37,325 --> 00:50:40,965
Speaker 2: And angels are creations of God separate from humanity. And

998
00:50:41,285 --> 00:50:43,325
Speaker 2: you know, we don't turn into angels. Little babies don't

999
00:50:43,365 --> 00:50:50,525
Speaker 2: turn into angels. But the fact is that angels exist

1000
00:50:50,605 --> 00:50:55,005
Speaker 2: apart from humanity to serve God in his purposes in

1001
00:50:55,045 --> 00:50:58,205
Speaker 2: the world and often to us. But here's the one

1002
00:50:58,245 --> 00:51:02,365
Speaker 2: thing that angels cannot do. In that same section of scripture,

1003
00:51:02,765 --> 00:51:06,525
Speaker 2: when the Angel showed up, the Angel said to Peter

1004
00:51:06,565 --> 00:51:09,485
Speaker 2: and John in this case, go stand and speak all

1005
00:51:09,525 --> 00:51:11,605
Speaker 2: the words of this life. That's right, said you go.

1006
00:51:12,205 --> 00:51:15,525
Speaker 2: So the angels couldn't go. That's the angels have never

1007
00:51:15,565 --> 00:51:18,685
Speaker 2: experienced salvation by grace. And so the angels, I mean,

1008
00:51:18,725 --> 00:51:20,844
Speaker 2: God could write it. God could send angels to preach

1009
00:51:20,885 --> 00:51:22,845
Speaker 2: the gospel right now, light it up in the sky,

1010
00:51:23,325 --> 00:51:26,485
Speaker 2: and many people, I get you would respond, But no,

1011
00:51:27,005 --> 00:51:29,404
Speaker 2: God didn't send the angels except to announce the birth

1012
00:51:29,405 --> 00:51:32,245
Speaker 2: of Jesus, to announce the resurrection. But it's our witness

1013
00:51:32,245 --> 00:51:35,285
Speaker 2: of the resurrection. So he said to us, you go

1014
00:51:35,805 --> 00:51:37,765
Speaker 2: and the angel. You got to do what I can't do,

1015
00:51:37,885 --> 00:51:40,045
Speaker 2: and that's go and stand and speak all the words

1016
00:51:40,085 --> 00:51:40,805
Speaker 2: of this life.

1017
00:51:41,045 --> 00:51:43,285
Speaker 1: Ken. I want to talk about one other thing, Jack,

1018
00:51:43,405 --> 00:51:46,805
Speaker 1: that I know that we both talk about frequently with

1019
00:51:46,965 --> 00:51:50,165
Speaker 1: some of our friends, and that is the rise of

1020
00:51:50,205 --> 00:51:51,364
Speaker 1: anti Semitism.

1021
00:51:51,965 --> 00:51:53,525
Speaker 2: You know, I know we.

1022
00:51:53,525 --> 00:51:56,685
Speaker 1: Both view the end times events in the same way.

1023
00:51:56,845 --> 00:51:59,245
Speaker 1: We believe there's a rapture. We believe there'll be an

1024
00:51:59,245 --> 00:52:05,445
Speaker 1: Antichrist tribulation, period of Battle of Burmegeddon, second coming a millennium.

1025
00:52:05,805 --> 00:52:10,165
Speaker 1: They call us dispensationalists if we hold that view. But

1026
00:52:10,325 --> 00:52:13,325
Speaker 1: something that has become very popular as of late is

1027
00:52:13,605 --> 00:52:18,845
Speaker 1: sometimes described as replacement theology, where effectively it would say

1028
00:52:18,925 --> 00:52:21,765
Speaker 1: that the state of Israel has nothing to do with

1029
00:52:21,845 --> 00:52:26,405
Speaker 1: the Jewish people, and people would be critical of anyone

1030
00:52:26,445 --> 00:52:30,085
Speaker 1: that would support the state of Israel. And when one

1031
00:52:30,165 --> 00:52:33,245
Speaker 1: supports the state of Issuel and then we end up

1032
00:52:33,245 --> 00:52:37,085
Speaker 1: being described as Christian Zionists. They have to understand when

1033
00:52:37,085 --> 00:52:39,685
Speaker 1: we say we support it. We believe it is a

1034
00:52:39,765 --> 00:52:42,965
Speaker 1: Jewish homeland. We believe God's brought the Jewish people back

1035
00:52:43,005 --> 00:52:45,805
Speaker 1: to this land that was given to them originally. They,

1036
00:52:45,845 --> 00:52:48,844
Speaker 1: after all, are the indigenous people to the land. They're

1037
00:52:48,845 --> 00:52:52,165
Speaker 1: not colonizers. They're not taking something that God did not

1038
00:52:52,245 --> 00:52:54,285
Speaker 1: give to them. And in fact, they're only in a

1039
00:52:54,365 --> 00:52:57,805
Speaker 1: tiny portion of all of the land God gave to them.

1040
00:52:57,805 --> 00:53:01,525
Speaker 1: And yet all these surrounding nations are wanting to take

1041
00:53:01,565 --> 00:53:04,085
Speaker 1: a little bit of land that they have because when

1042
00:53:04,125 --> 00:53:08,205
Speaker 1: students chant on college campuses from the river to the sea,

1043
00:53:08,365 --> 00:53:11,485
Speaker 1: pelows team will be free. Well, the river is the Jordan,

1044
00:53:11,605 --> 00:53:14,365
Speaker 1: the sea is the Mediterranean. What that really means is

1045
00:53:14,485 --> 00:53:17,405
Speaker 1: we don't want in Israel. We don't want a Jewish state.

1046
00:53:17,565 --> 00:53:21,565
Speaker 1: We don't want Jews here, we want them eradicated. So

1047
00:53:22,005 --> 00:53:26,005
Speaker 1: why is this become so I don't want to say popular,

1048
00:53:26,565 --> 00:53:29,844
Speaker 1: but why is this so prominent right now? And why

1049
00:53:29,925 --> 00:53:33,125
Speaker 1: has it even made its way into the church with

1050
00:53:33,285 --> 00:53:34,765
Speaker 1: the replacement theology.

1051
00:53:35,045 --> 00:53:37,525
Speaker 2: Well, first of all, great explanation, I can't add a

1052
00:53:37,525 --> 00:53:42,884
Speaker 2: lot to that of our position on Israel. And we

1053
00:53:42,925 --> 00:53:46,205
Speaker 2: reject anti Semitism, hate of any kind, but certainly hate

1054
00:53:46,205 --> 00:53:48,884
Speaker 2: towards God's people, because God said I will bless those

1055
00:53:48,885 --> 00:53:51,525
Speaker 2: who bless Israel and curse those who curse Israel. That's

1056
00:53:51,685 --> 00:53:54,605
Speaker 2: right out of the scripture. I see no evidence in

1057
00:53:54,645 --> 00:53:58,885
Speaker 2: the Bible where God has set aside Israel. The idea

1058
00:53:59,125 --> 00:54:03,605
Speaker 2: is that because Israel rejected the Messiah Jesus, that God

1059
00:54:03,685 --> 00:54:06,925
Speaker 2: now has set them aside. Place them with Christians or

1060
00:54:06,965 --> 00:54:10,645
Speaker 2: the Church, whether they're Jewish Christians or Gentile Christians, but

1061
00:54:10,725 --> 00:54:14,365
Speaker 2: Christians and that God. If you're talking about Israel, they

1062
00:54:14,405 --> 00:54:17,285
Speaker 2: would say you might as well be talking about Venezuela

1063
00:54:17,485 --> 00:54:20,285
Speaker 2: or Canada. Is just a country. It's just a political movement.

1064
00:54:20,365 --> 00:54:23,165
Speaker 2: That's not what we believe in. You explained it very

1065
00:54:23,245 --> 00:54:27,485
Speaker 2: very well, because we believe if God set aside his

1066
00:54:27,565 --> 00:54:31,285
Speaker 2: promises to Israel that are in my view, ironclad eternal,

1067
00:54:31,805 --> 00:54:33,885
Speaker 2: then what is to say he wouldn't set aside his

1068
00:54:33,965 --> 00:54:36,445
Speaker 2: promises to us. I mean, because we as Gentiles, I

1069
00:54:36,445 --> 00:54:39,165
Speaker 2: mean we have also you know, even as Christians, we've

1070
00:54:39,205 --> 00:54:42,725
Speaker 2: not always obeyed God and to disobey God, but we

1071
00:54:42,765 --> 00:54:45,885
Speaker 2: live into grace, and then there's a dispensation of God's

1072
00:54:45,925 --> 00:54:48,485
Speaker 2: love and grace to the people of Israel. One day, Israel,

1073
00:54:48,525 --> 00:54:51,445
Speaker 2: many in Israel will be believerd become believers in the

1074
00:54:51,445 --> 00:54:55,005
Speaker 2: Book of Revelation. We still believe that Jewish people need

1075
00:54:55,045 --> 00:54:57,565
Speaker 2: to put their faith in Christ, the Messiah. We don't

1076
00:54:57,605 --> 00:55:00,964
Speaker 2: believe in a universal salvation, that Jewish people are saved

1077
00:55:00,965 --> 00:55:03,885
Speaker 2: because they're Jews. We don't believe that I have wonderful

1078
00:55:03,925 --> 00:55:06,085
Speaker 2: Jewish friends. We just had the ambassad that are to

1079
00:55:06,365 --> 00:55:09,364
Speaker 2: the America Front, to America from Israel. In our church,

1080
00:55:09,445 --> 00:55:13,005
Speaker 2: he's an incredible man, a man of faith, and you know,

1081
00:55:13,045 --> 00:55:14,965
Speaker 2: in my prayer for him is that he'll take the

1082
00:55:15,005 --> 00:55:18,364
Speaker 2: final step and and and know Jesus in a personal way.

1083
00:55:19,085 --> 00:55:23,405
Speaker 2: So there's that. But the anti Semitism, I would I

1084
00:55:23,445 --> 00:55:28,845
Speaker 2: would obscribe that to last day's activity. Satanic is. He's

1085
00:55:28,845 --> 00:55:32,285
Speaker 2: Satan is attacking the Jewish people. And we didn't think

1086
00:55:32,325 --> 00:55:35,404
Speaker 2: that this could happen again after the Holocaust, Robert think, okay,

1087
00:55:35,445 --> 00:55:38,125
Speaker 2: that would never happen again in the world October seven,

1088
00:55:38,525 --> 00:55:40,325
Speaker 2: And then it happened. And then now you've got all

1089
00:55:40,365 --> 00:55:43,565
Speaker 2: these groups rising up and podcasters. You referred to some

1090
00:55:43,645 --> 00:55:47,685
Speaker 2: of these so called influencers earlier, and and but here's

1091
00:55:47,765 --> 00:55:54,605
Speaker 2: here's why Satan hates Israel. Yes, because Satan hates everything

1092
00:55:54,685 --> 00:55:58,445
Speaker 2: that God loves and anyone God loves, and God loves

1093
00:55:58,445 --> 00:56:02,765
Speaker 2: the Jewish people and has they are His people by promise,

1094
00:56:03,605 --> 00:56:06,884
Speaker 2: and he loves his people. And so yes, Satan will

1095
00:56:06,925 --> 00:56:09,925
Speaker 2: attack the Jewish people. And so I put it right

1096
00:56:09,925 --> 00:56:12,245
Speaker 2: where it belongs. I mean, Satan's like a bully, starts

1097
00:56:12,245 --> 00:56:17,045
Speaker 2: to fight and walks away. But this fight is going

1098
00:56:17,085 --> 00:56:20,285
Speaker 2: on at the hands of an enemy, an enemy of Satan.

1099
00:56:20,325 --> 00:56:26,485
Speaker 2: And ultimately, remember this, they're coming for Christians next, you know,

1100
00:56:26,965 --> 00:56:31,285
Speaker 2: maybe not even next, yeah, maybe now. And they're first

1101
00:56:31,325 --> 00:56:37,085
Speaker 2: coming for the Saturday people, the Sabbath people, these terrorists,

1102
00:56:37,125 --> 00:56:41,125
Speaker 2: and these who would destroy God's work in the world.

1103
00:56:42,285 --> 00:56:47,365
Speaker 2: But they're coming for the Sunday people next Christians and

1104
00:56:47,845 --> 00:56:51,685
Speaker 2: the in the geopolitical world. Yes, they're going at Israel now,

1105
00:56:51,725 --> 00:56:54,125
Speaker 2: which is an amazing it's a miracle nation. How could

1106
00:56:54,125 --> 00:56:57,885
Speaker 2: they possibly still be standing? Have to regather just you know,

1107
00:56:58,005 --> 00:57:01,285
Speaker 2: seventy eight years ago or so, and yet they're still standing.

1108
00:57:01,405 --> 00:57:04,125
Speaker 2: The whole world seems to rise against them, and that's

1109
00:57:04,165 --> 00:57:07,445
Speaker 2: biblical prophecy as well. But how are they still standing? Well,

1110
00:57:07,445 --> 00:57:10,085
Speaker 2: they're standing because of the help and the power of God.

1111
00:57:10,685 --> 00:57:15,245
Speaker 2: And when we stand with them when we stand with Israel,

1112
00:57:15,325 --> 00:57:18,725
Speaker 2: we're standing with I believe the thrust and the theme

1113
00:57:18,885 --> 00:57:21,845
Speaker 2: of all of God's word, and I just want to

1114
00:57:21,845 --> 00:57:24,925
Speaker 2: stay biblical on this And doesn't mean we agree with

1115
00:57:24,965 --> 00:57:28,565
Speaker 2: everything political Israel, what the Prime Minister over there might say,

1116
00:57:29,205 --> 00:57:31,885
Speaker 2: but the people of Israel and a nation, we support

1117
00:57:31,925 --> 00:57:34,645
Speaker 2: the fact that they have a right to exist based

1118
00:57:34,685 --> 00:57:37,285
Speaker 2: on the things you said so, well.

1119
00:57:37,405 --> 00:57:40,565
Speaker 1: Well, what's ironic is you would think after October seventh

1120
00:57:41,125 --> 00:57:44,925
Speaker 1: there would be an oppoint of sympathy globally for the

1121
00:57:44,965 --> 00:57:47,685
Speaker 1: suffering of the Jewish people. Was like twelve hundred people

1122
00:57:47,685 --> 00:57:50,885
Speaker 1: were murdered, slaughter, the unspeakable things were done to them.

1123
00:57:51,525 --> 00:57:55,525
Speaker 1: But yet instead of that, we have this rise of

1124
00:57:55,605 --> 00:58:00,125
Speaker 1: anti Semitism and jew hatred at a level like we

1125
00:58:00,205 --> 00:58:03,365
Speaker 1: have not seen since you know, the Hitler days. Everyone

1126
00:58:03,445 --> 00:58:06,605
Speaker 1: likes doing vote Hitler, Hitler Nazis the Nazis. Well, this

1127
00:58:06,965 --> 00:58:10,285
Speaker 1: is similar to that. I went to the Holocaust Museum

1128
00:58:10,325 --> 00:58:12,725
Speaker 1: recently when I was in Washington, d C. I've been

1129
00:58:12,765 --> 00:58:17,565
Speaker 1: there before, but it's so sobering and eye opening to

1130
00:58:17,645 --> 00:58:20,765
Speaker 1: walk through and see how it started. It started with

1131
00:58:20,805 --> 00:58:24,685
Speaker 1: the caricature of the Jews blaming everything on the Jews. Now,

1132
00:58:24,685 --> 00:58:26,885
Speaker 1: if you have a Jewish business, you have to put

1133
00:58:26,885 --> 00:58:29,085
Speaker 1: a Star of David in your window. Now you have

1134
00:58:29,165 --> 00:58:31,765
Speaker 1: to wear a star of David. Now we're shutting your

1135
00:58:31,805 --> 00:58:34,365
Speaker 1: businesses down and you live in this ghetto. Now you

1136
00:58:34,405 --> 00:58:36,125
Speaker 1: have to get in a box car and you have

1137
00:58:36,205 --> 00:58:38,805
Speaker 1: to go over here to this camp. And they would

1138
00:58:38,845 --> 00:58:41,245
Speaker 1: have a sign as you entered. I believe it was

1139
00:58:41,285 --> 00:58:45,165
Speaker 1: Auschwitz in German, but in English it translated to work

1140
00:58:45,245 --> 00:58:48,165
Speaker 1: makes freedom. So maybe they thought if we work hard,

1141
00:58:48,565 --> 00:58:50,325
Speaker 1: you know, we'll get out of here. It was all

1142
00:58:50,405 --> 00:58:53,925
Speaker 1: a design to fulfill what they called the final solution

1143
00:58:54,165 --> 00:58:57,725
Speaker 1: was the which was the complete extermination of these people.

1144
00:58:58,085 --> 00:59:00,485
Speaker 1: So when you see this, you go, it's happening again

1145
00:59:00,885 --> 00:59:04,205
Speaker 1: in real time before our very eyes, blaming everything on

1146
00:59:04,245 --> 00:59:07,405
Speaker 1: the Jews, et cetera. And it is I do believe

1147
00:59:07,405 --> 00:59:08,525
Speaker 1: it's civil. I agree with you.

1148
00:59:09,325 --> 00:59:11,965
Speaker 2: And what does the scripture say? One of my favorite

1149
00:59:12,005 --> 00:59:15,125
Speaker 2: scriptures for I'm not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ,

1150
00:59:15,365 --> 00:59:17,125
Speaker 2: the power of God and the salvation to the jew

1151
00:59:17,165 --> 00:59:19,525
Speaker 2: first and also the Greek. And I think we need

1152
00:59:19,565 --> 00:59:21,725
Speaker 2: to be reminded when we talk about the big picture

1153
00:59:21,765 --> 00:59:24,925
Speaker 2: of the Jewish nation people that we care about our

1154
00:59:25,005 --> 00:59:29,085
Speaker 2: Jewish neighbors. And you know, we have neighbors in our

1155
00:59:29,125 --> 00:59:32,405
Speaker 2: community who are Jewish people, and we need to let

1156
00:59:32,445 --> 00:59:35,565
Speaker 2: our Jewish neighbors and friends know of our love for

1157
00:59:35,685 --> 00:59:39,845
Speaker 2: them and then ask for open doors to share the

1158
00:59:39,885 --> 00:59:42,445
Speaker 2: Gospel yes with our Jewish friends.

1159
00:59:42,445 --> 00:59:46,645
Speaker 1: And they're discovering that we really are their friend. Evangelical Christians.

1160
00:59:47,525 --> 00:59:50,525
Speaker 1: You and I were in a meeting were Prime Minister

1161
00:59:50,565 --> 00:59:53,765
Speaker 1: in Netanya who was speaking, and he said, the greatest

1162
00:59:53,765 --> 00:59:56,805
Speaker 1: friend of vision is the evangelical Christian. Do you remember

1163
00:59:56,845 --> 00:59:58,885
Speaker 1: the question? I asked the Prime Minister.

1164
01:00:00,405 --> 01:00:03,605
Speaker 2: I know you forgot the question at mid sentence, but

1165
01:00:03,685 --> 01:00:05,125
Speaker 2: so maybe do you remember it? Now?

1166
01:00:05,605 --> 01:00:08,845
Speaker 1: Was tasked with the opportunity to ask him a question.

1167
01:00:09,325 --> 01:00:12,045
Speaker 2: This is one of my favorite moments with Greg Man.

1168
01:00:12,125 --> 01:00:14,285
Speaker 1: He was in charge. Said Greg, why didn't you asked

1169
01:00:14,285 --> 01:00:18,005
Speaker 1: the Prime minister a question? And he said ask him this? Okay,

1170
01:00:18,045 --> 01:00:19,765
Speaker 1: it was a good question, but I had my own

1171
01:00:19,845 --> 01:00:22,325
Speaker 1: question I wanted to ask. So I emerged the two

1172
01:00:22,325 --> 01:00:25,085
Speaker 1: together and I stood up all mister Prime Minister, I

1173
01:00:25,125 --> 01:00:28,645
Speaker 1: wanted to ask you this, and I was very nervous.

1174
01:00:29,245 --> 01:00:31,525
Speaker 1: I was in a room full of preachers sending before

1175
01:00:31,525 --> 01:00:36,605
Speaker 1: the Prime Minister cameras, and my question was so convoluted.

1176
01:00:36,925 --> 01:00:39,405
Speaker 1: I don't remember what I said, but I remember him saying,

1177
01:00:39,765 --> 01:00:42,405
Speaker 1: I don't understand I don't understand you. And then you

1178
01:00:42,525 --> 01:00:47,205
Speaker 1: laughed out loud and never let me forget it. So humilating,

1179
01:00:47,485 --> 01:00:48,085
Speaker 1: but you're.

1180
01:00:47,925 --> 01:00:51,165
Speaker 2: So articulate, always, Greg. But yeah, that was a fun

1181
01:00:51,205 --> 01:00:53,365
Speaker 2: moment because nobody knew what you were asking.

1182
01:00:54,845 --> 01:00:57,845
Speaker 1: But you know, after October seventh, I spoke quite a

1183
01:00:57,845 --> 01:01:00,525
Speaker 1: bit about this, and and I had a lady walked

1184
01:01:00,525 --> 01:01:02,925
Speaker 1: by our house walking our dog and she said, excuse me,

1185
01:01:02,965 --> 01:01:05,845
Speaker 1: I wanted to thank you. I said, oh, she I

1186
01:01:05,885 --> 01:01:10,685
Speaker 1: have a daughter in college, and thank you for speaking

1187
01:01:10,765 --> 01:01:13,125
Speaker 1: up behalf of the Jewish people. I thought maybe she's

1188
01:01:13,165 --> 01:01:15,805
Speaker 1: a Christian. I said, well, thank you are you're Christians?

1189
01:01:15,845 --> 01:01:18,885
Speaker 1: She said, no, we're Jewish, but thank you for speaking

1190
01:01:18,885 --> 01:01:22,285
Speaker 1: out for us, right, And I really appreciated that because

1191
01:01:22,445 --> 01:01:26,005
Speaker 1: they know they have a friend in US, and we

1192
01:01:26,045 --> 01:01:28,525
Speaker 1: really do care. And you know, I was speaking to

1193
01:01:28,565 --> 01:01:32,085
Speaker 1: a couple of professors from Haiphi University. I said, sometimes

1194
01:01:32,085 --> 01:01:35,565
Speaker 1: I think we're the support of Israel, or the support

1195
01:01:35,605 --> 01:01:40,445
Speaker 1: of evangelicals, or Israel is mischaracterized because they've heard it. Said, oh,

1196
01:01:40,485 --> 01:01:43,525
Speaker 1: we just want army geddon to come. You know. No,

1197
01:01:43,725 --> 01:01:45,805
Speaker 1: Actually we're told on the Bible to pray for the

1198
01:01:45,845 --> 01:01:52,165
Speaker 1: peace of Jerusalem. And the second point related when Jesus returns,

1199
01:01:52,205 --> 01:01:55,045
Speaker 1: people say God's done with the Jews. Where is Jesus

1200
01:01:55,085 --> 01:01:57,765
Speaker 1: returning to When he comes back, He's coming to the

1201
01:01:57,845 --> 01:02:00,525
Speaker 1: mount of all us, right, and it's going to split

1202
01:02:00,605 --> 01:02:02,765
Speaker 1: in two. So he still has a plan for them

1203
01:02:02,765 --> 01:02:06,885
Speaker 1: in the future. But coming back to to my main point,

1204
01:02:06,965 --> 01:02:10,525
Speaker 1: I said, that's not why we support you. We love you.

1205
01:02:10,645 --> 01:02:13,165
Speaker 1: I said, now, look, I'm not going to apologize to

1206
01:02:13,245 --> 01:02:16,085
Speaker 1: the fact that we want you to believe in Jesus

1207
01:02:16,365 --> 01:02:19,645
Speaker 1: as your messiah. Having said that, we do pray for

1208
01:02:19,725 --> 01:02:23,005
Speaker 1: your peace, and we do support your right too obviously

1209
01:02:23,125 --> 01:02:27,165
Speaker 1: exist and being your homeland. And so that's how we

1210
01:02:27,205 --> 01:02:30,445
Speaker 1: see this. And because I think sometimes our position, you know,

1211
01:02:30,525 --> 01:02:33,485
Speaker 1: the straw man argument is made and then it's knocked

1212
01:02:33,485 --> 01:02:36,005
Speaker 1: down and it's like, I don't even say that, that's

1213
01:02:36,045 --> 01:02:38,685
Speaker 1: not even representative of what we believe.

1214
01:02:39,365 --> 01:02:41,685
Speaker 2: That's true. I couldn't agree more.

1215
01:02:41,965 --> 01:02:44,565
Speaker 1: Well, thank you so much for taking the time to

1216
01:02:44,645 --> 01:02:48,325
Speaker 1: talk about so many things. Jack, you'red to me, you're

1217
01:02:48,485 --> 01:02:51,365
Speaker 1: like just one of the greatest pastors in America. I

1218
01:02:51,405 --> 01:02:54,245
Speaker 1: really mean that. I been such a great friend and

1219
01:02:54,285 --> 01:02:56,965
Speaker 1: I know I can always call you and you'll left

1220
01:02:57,005 --> 01:02:59,805
Speaker 1: up my stupid jokes and take me to Babees Fried Chickens.

1221
01:02:59,845 --> 01:03:02,085
Speaker 2: So absolutely, come to Dallas. We'll go.

1222
01:03:02,245 --> 01:03:03,525
Speaker 1: I'll look forward to that. Thanks,