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Speaker 1: Coming up on Confessions of a Christian Alcoholic.

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Speaker 2: He comes home and I remember him coming being like, Tasha,

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Speaker 2: what is going on? And I'm like, what? And he's like,

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Speaker 2: the door's wide open to our house. It's freezing outside.

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Speaker 2: And our youngest daughter's like naked in a diaper, walking

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Speaker 2: around on the street in the cul-de-sac, you know, just

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Speaker 2: while I'm in the house and the kids are just

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Speaker 2: wandering around. He was just like, what on earth happened?

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Speaker 2: He's like, what could have happened to her? while I

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Speaker 2: was gone, you know? Life Audio.

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Speaker 1: Hello, hello, and welcome to the Confessions of a Christian

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Speaker 1: Alcoholic podcast. I am your host, John Seidel, and I

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Speaker 1: am the Christian who became an alcoholic, not the other

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Speaker 1: way around. Here, we get radically vulnerable about addiction, recovery,

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Speaker 1: messy sanctification, and all the things we turn to instead

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Speaker 1: of Jesus because we're all addicted to something. You'll hear raw,

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Speaker 1: honest conversations from those who have struggled, those who help

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Speaker 1: those who struggle, and why aiming for Jesus and getting

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Speaker 1: sobriety thrown in is actually the best goal. So let's

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Speaker 1: get right into this week's episode. You know, when you

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Speaker 1: get married, you say your vows for better or for worse,

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Speaker 1: sickness and in health, rich or poor. And, you know,

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Speaker 1: I think we say those. And it's not that we

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Speaker 1: don't mean them, but I think sometimes we don't realize

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Speaker 1: exactly what that will look like. And so I think

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Speaker 1: for both my wife and I, we would say that

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Speaker 1: there have been times that we've had to live out

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Speaker 1: our vows in ways that we never saw coming. And

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Speaker 1: so some of those are comical. There's quite a story

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Speaker 1: about a wedding in which my wife had to help

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Speaker 1: me clean something up. And it's not related to alcohol.

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Speaker 1: That's quite a story. And I think I'm saving it

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Speaker 1: for a later book. There are many times throughout my

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Speaker 1: drinking that she lived out her vows. And one of

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Speaker 1: the ways that I've had to live out my vows

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Speaker 1: with my wife is as she has struggled with a

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Speaker 1: chronic illness and multiple chronic illnesses. that have surfaced over

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Speaker 1: the last three or so years. And so I've been baptized,

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Speaker 1: if you will, indoctrinated, educated on what it is like

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Speaker 1: to live with a chronic illness. And especially a physical,

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Speaker 1: you know, one that manifests physically, right? I mean, I

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Speaker 1: have mental health things, so I get that aspect. But

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Speaker 1: But I think what I'm mainly getting at here is

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Speaker 1: chronic physical health issues. That's the story of our guest today,

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Speaker 1: Natasha Kennedy, who pretty quickly and suddenly lost the ability

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Speaker 1: to eat because of a, as she kind of describes it,

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Speaker 1: a dying esophagus problem. And that led to a myriad

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Speaker 1: of health issues and struggles. It also led to alcoholism.

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Speaker 1: And that is despite Natasha being a very popular and,

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Speaker 1: in a sense, beloved Christian. She's the illustrator behind the

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Speaker 1: fat cat books for children, which you might be aware

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Speaker 1: of or have seen or have used or read. And

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Speaker 1: she goes through this health struggle. And as she is

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Speaker 1: dealing with it, she, in a sense, says, hey, I

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Speaker 1: have lost pretty much everything that I have enjoyed. And

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Speaker 1: I'm I deserve a little bit more alcohol. And that

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Speaker 1: leads to a lot of difficulty. It leads to trouble

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Speaker 1: with her husband. It leads to a story that she'll

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Speaker 1: tell about how it manifested in parenting her kids. And

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Speaker 1: it finally got to the point where she realized, I

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Speaker 1: have a problem. And so it is just one more

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Speaker 1: example that we talk about on this podcast series. That

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Speaker 1: it doesn't matter if you love Jesus, know Jesus, follow Jesus.

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Speaker 1: Have given parts of yourself over to Jesus. We are

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Speaker 1: all still susceptible to the sin nature that is not

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Speaker 1: fully gone. That is still inside the war that Paul

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Speaker 1: talks about. And so Natasha is going to tell her story.

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Speaker 1: She's written a book called Lacking Nothing. The Year I

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Speaker 1: Lost My Ability to Eat and Found Satisfaction. But in

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Speaker 1: that book and in this, she really– in the book,

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Speaker 1: she touches on this, but she goes really in-depth here

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Speaker 1: about how that wasn't just a linear, beautiful, quick journey.

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Speaker 1: It actually involved alcohol. So Natasha is a– I call

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Speaker 1: her my book sister. Because we share a publisher. And

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Speaker 1: so I've gotten to know her through this opportunity. And

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Speaker 1: I'm excited for you to hear her. Just so you know,

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Speaker 1: if you are struggling, you can go to VeritasRecovery.org. And

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Speaker 1: we have a slew of resources, including a new one

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Speaker 1: coming up, which is a video series through RightNow Media

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Speaker 1: called We're All Addicted to Something. And you will get

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Speaker 1: access to those through RightNow Media, but you can also

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Speaker 1: get access to those at VeritasRecovery.org. So without further ado,

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Speaker 1: Natasha Kennedy. Natasha, thank you so much for joining the

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Speaker 1: Confessions of a Christian Alcoholic podcast. This is a real treat.

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Speaker 1: We are book brothers and sisters, book brother and sister,

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Speaker 1: if you will. We share a parent publisher. And so

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Speaker 1: I'm excited to have you on for a variety of reasons,

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Speaker 1: but it's also nice to have someone within the family,

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Speaker 1: if you will. So thanks for joining.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks so much for having me. It's an honor.

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Speaker 1: And we will talk about that book coming up in

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Speaker 1: your story. But before we get there, you know, I

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Speaker 1: talked about you and what you do, if you will,

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Speaker 1: in the introduction, but I always love giving people the opportunity, right?

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Speaker 1: Because you might You might reveal something even more. So

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Speaker 1: why don't you tell people, in a sense, who you are,

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Speaker 1: what you do, where you are, your family, before we

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Speaker 1: dive into your story?

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Speaker 2: Well, my name is Natasha Kennedy. As you said, I

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Speaker 2: authored a book that's coming out about my chronic illness

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Speaker 2: and losing the ability to eat over the last few years.

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Speaker 2: But I also... illustrate the Fat Cat book series, which

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Speaker 2: has got a special place in my heart. And I

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Speaker 2: probably spend most of my time authoring a bunch of

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Speaker 2: epic fantasy novels. But my family is based in Seattle,

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Speaker 2: where I grew up. And I've got four kids that

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Speaker 2: I homeschool. I have an amazing husband, Lindsay, who actually

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Speaker 2: works for baker my publisher nice so it's kind of

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Speaker 2: fun to have a little bit of crossover um sometimes

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Speaker 2: i can peek over his shoulder and be like yeah

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Speaker 2: right when's my book coming out right.

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Speaker 1: Right where's where's the cover design at.

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Speaker 2: Yes um and yeah we're we're a very happy family

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Speaker 2: we love each other and um.

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Speaker 1: Yeah and you've been through a lot as we're going

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Speaker 1: to talk about. By the way, for people who don't know,

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Speaker 1: and I know there's plenty that do, when you say

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Speaker 1: the Fat Cat series, what is the Fat Cat series?

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Speaker 2: So the Fat Cat series is, it was the children's

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Speaker 2: book series that Lexham Press brought out several years ago,

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Speaker 2: where we are kind of illustrating the core, kind of

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Speaker 2: like the foundational principles uh catechisms for our faith so

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Speaker 2: we did a book on the lord's prayer we did

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Speaker 2: the apostles creed the ten commandments um we're about to

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Speaker 2: release one on uh the church calendar um but we

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Speaker 2: do it all through illustrating it and um depicting it

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Speaker 2: through the life of jesus um so every page is

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Speaker 2: um you know, a portion of Jesus' life. But we

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Speaker 2: also have Fat Cat. He's a character, and his name

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Speaker 2: is kind of based on Fat Catechism and how rich

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Speaker 2: our faith is. And he's on every page, which tends

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Speaker 2: to be why kids like it so much. Yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: How did you get into art, illustrating, and then illustrating

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Speaker 1: as a profession?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that... I kind of had a little bit of

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Speaker 2: a backdoor entrance there because, um, like I've always loved

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Speaker 2: to draw. I've always just been, you know, comics, illustrating kids'

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Speaker 2: books and stuff on the side, but nothing, nothing big,

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Speaker 2: you know, a lot of self-published stuff or, um, yeah,

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Speaker 2: just little bits or graphic design. Um, but when Lindsay

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Speaker 2: was working at Lexham press, he's my husband. Um, he

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Speaker 2: was telling me that, uh, they were thinking about launching

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Speaker 2: a kid series and looking for a good illustrator. And

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Speaker 2: he was like, you should just, just draw some stuff

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Speaker 2: and I'll just go and put it on Todd's desk

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Speaker 2: and just see what he says. And so I did,

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Speaker 2: I just mocked up a few images and, um, Lindsay

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Speaker 2: put it on Todd's desk and Todd was like, okay,

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Speaker 2: this is awesome. Like, and then he gave me a

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Speaker 2: full on spread to do. He's like, okay, illustrate Israel

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Speaker 2: walking through, you know, the red sea and you have

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Speaker 2: Israel walking through the red sea and the Egyptians like

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Speaker 2: sinking on the other side. And so I did this

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Speaker 2: big spread and they shared it around and then they

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Speaker 2: were like, yeah, let's do it. So, um, It's nice

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Speaker 2: to have that to kind of know about the opportunity

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Speaker 2: and put my name in before they count anybody else.

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Speaker 1: So you obviously you said you're writing fantasy series as

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Speaker 1: a fantasy series and fantasy novels as well. How much

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Speaker 1: time do you spend on Fat Cat versus your other stuff?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, Fat Cat is very much comes in bursts.

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Speaker 2: It's like, okay, we've got a contract and then there's

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Speaker 2: a good month or so where I'm just hardcore illustrating.

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Speaker 2: I would often just spend like an eight hour day,

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Speaker 2: you know, from morning to evening, just full on illustrating

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Speaker 2: one spread. There's like around 16 spreads of book. So

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Speaker 2: it was, you know, it's very time consuming when a

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Speaker 2: project's on. and then we send it out and then

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Speaker 2: it's like a while before we do another one, you know,

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Speaker 2: we would, we would do maybe one or two a

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Speaker 2: year for a bit. Um, and then my fantasy book,

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Speaker 2: I would usually spend, I usually spend a couple hours

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Speaker 2: in the afternoon when I got my own time and

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Speaker 2: I was done when I'm done homeschooling and I've got

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Speaker 2: a patch of time to myself, especially in the hospital

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Speaker 2: or just in, in bed with my illness, I would

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Speaker 2: just keep myself sane by writing. And I mean, I

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Speaker 2: write around like 10,000 words a day. It just like,

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Speaker 2: just kind of just flows out, you know?

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 2: Wow.

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Speaker 1: That is a lot.

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Speaker 2: I know.

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Speaker 1: 10,000 words a day.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I, I'm like, I've only, I'm about to publish

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Speaker 2: the third book, but I'm written 16 books, you know,

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Speaker 2: and they're like 200 to 300,000 words each, you know,

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Speaker 2: just all these big fancy, but, It's how it keeps

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Speaker 2: me going with the chronic pain and constantly being shot

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Speaker 2: down and having to just be in bed or in

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Speaker 2: the hospital. It kind of helps put your mind in

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Speaker 2: a fantasy world and bring in wisdom and scripture and

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Speaker 2: theology into my writings. Being able to still be creative

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Speaker 2: while not being able to live life is nice.

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Speaker 1: Mm hmm. For people who don't know, like my book,

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Speaker 1: Confessions of Krishnakalak, I think is like 60 to 70,000.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: So 10,000 words a day. That means like Natasha could

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Speaker 1: crank out my book in a week, which is great.

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Speaker 1: Maybe my next book, Natasha, I'll just kind of give

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Speaker 1: you my thoughts. You know, you brought up a couple

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Speaker 1: of things there, I think are a great transition, which

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Speaker 1: is you talk about your chronic, your chronic illness. Right.

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Speaker 1: And and so I think I want to go there

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Speaker 1: because that will then also lead into the addiction aspect

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Speaker 1: and the alcohol aspect. And so, um, let's, let's start there.

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Speaker 1: You talk about this chronic illness. Tell us your story.

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Speaker 1: And I think it probably starts there. We'll be right

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Speaker 1: back after this.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Um, well it started in, uh, 2021 we had

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Speaker 2: been living in Scotland. So my husband is British. So, um,

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Speaker 2: we've lived in the UK for about half of our

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Speaker 2: married life, but we had just moved back from Scotland and, um,

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Speaker 2: I had just given birth to my fourth child and

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Speaker 2: there was just, my body just wasn't recovering from the

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Speaker 2: labor and it was just, just constant bleeding for nine

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Speaker 2: months before we finally, um, for finally ended up having

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Speaker 2: a surgery, but, um, it, there just kept being this

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Speaker 2: problem where every time I'd have a surgery, um, this,

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Speaker 2: my internal tissue, they call it friable tissue where they

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Speaker 2: go in to operate, but everything would just be tearing apart. Um,

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Speaker 2: and this had happened earlier and we're like, why is

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Speaker 2: this happening? And they kept saying like, you need to

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Speaker 2: find out like, like what's going on. Why, why do

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Speaker 2: you keep having these terrible surgeries? And, um, And then

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Speaker 2: shortly after that, you're kind of like on the hunt,

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Speaker 2: you know, but it's looking, trying to get diagnosed with

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Speaker 2: a connective tissue disease is very hard. There's a little

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Speaker 2: bit of a social media craze about connective tissue diseases.

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Speaker 2: And so it kind of makes it hard to, you know,

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Speaker 2: in the mass of, you know, just tons of people

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Speaker 2: coming to the doctors and saying I have connective tissue disease.

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Speaker 2: It's hard to be you know, to kind of like

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Speaker 2: set yourself apart and be like, okay, but this one

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Speaker 2: is like, right. Really dangerous. And, um, and so we

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Speaker 2: just kept getting nowhere. And until one day, and it

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Speaker 2: happened just so fast, I was eating pho and I

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Speaker 2: got steak stuck in my throat and went to the,

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Speaker 2: went to the ER to get it out. And, um,

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Speaker 2: then the next day got more food stuck in my throat,

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Speaker 2: went to the ER and And then it got to

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Speaker 2: this point where it was like, and it was like

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Speaker 2: a light switch going off. Just suddenly my throat just,

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Speaker 2: everything kept getting stuck to the point of water. I

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Speaker 2: would take a drink of water and it would just

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Speaker 2: shoot back out. And so I was just starving for breath.

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Speaker 2: weeks while we kept going back to the ER and

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Speaker 2: they'd say, they'd look and they'd say, there's no blockage,

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Speaker 2: there's nothing wrong with you. Um, and then finally we

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Speaker 2: saw one doctor in the ER who said, Oh, this

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Speaker 2: looks like a motility disorder, which is more about the

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Speaker 2: function of your esophagus. And, um, and so I finally got, um,

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Speaker 2: finally got referred to, um, to an esophageal specialist in

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Speaker 2: Virginia Mason, kind of the high-quality specialized hospital in the area,

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Speaker 2: and got a horrible test. Never get this test to

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Speaker 2: test your throat's motility.

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Speaker 1: Is it the swallow test?

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Speaker 2: It's not the swallow one, but it's called a manometry,

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Speaker 2: and they put a thick tube of nodes up your

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Speaker 2: nose and down your throat, and you have to do

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Speaker 2: all this. swallowing and it's not great the nurses who

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Speaker 2: took me back literally said we're so sorry we feel

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Speaker 2: like we torture people back here and i was like

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Speaker 2: whoa thanks for thanks for.

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Speaker 1: That wow yeah.

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Speaker 2: Um so it basically showed that my um my esophagus

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Speaker 2: had completely uh died and stopped working and so there's

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Speaker 2: no peristalsis um but then there was also these random

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Speaker 2: spasms where it would just close up. And that started

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Speaker 2: the track of trying to figure out what was wrong.

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Speaker 2: And in the midst of all that, I just wasn't

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Speaker 2: eating and constantly in the hospital just to get water. Finally,

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Speaker 2: after getting that diagnosis, we went and got a feeding tube.

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Speaker 2: But because of my connective tissue disease where we're cutting

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Speaker 2: through tissues and whatnot um it it triggered um it

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Speaker 2: just wouldn't wouldn't heal up and so there was i

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Speaker 2: was in so much pain um it was it was

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Speaker 2: a total disaster and um and i couldn't put any

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Speaker 2: uh food through it because of the pain and so

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Speaker 2: um I finally ended up.

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Speaker 1: By the way, when you're saying you're not really eating

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Speaker 1: or drinking water, I mean, it's like.

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Speaker 2: Oh, it would be days of starvation until we'd finally

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Speaker 2: just go into the ER. I mean, it was just

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Speaker 2: every few days.

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Speaker 1: So you weren't even drinking water? No. And so how

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Speaker 1: are you feeling? I mean... How are you feeling? I've

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Speaker 1: watched that show alone, you know, and I like I

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Speaker 1: see these people in what starts happening. It's like, how

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Speaker 1: are you feeling? Like even just psychologically and mentally? Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Well, this is like kind of getting into the depth

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Speaker 2: of what I talk about in my book. And it's

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Speaker 2: like I got to this point where every single day.

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Speaker 2: i had to i just held on to the um

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Speaker 2: the passage of jesus fasting in the desert and him

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Speaker 2: saying man does not live by bread alone and i

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Speaker 2: got to this point where i'm like i actually have

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Speaker 2: to believe this is true that the word of god

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Speaker 2: is enough for me right now and um You know,

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Speaker 2: I was at these points of just deep dehydration and

301
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Speaker 2: not having like saliva, you know, to like wet my mouth.

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Speaker 2: And the doctors at my hospital nearby just like not

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Speaker 2: having the patience for me, you know. And when they

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Speaker 2: put the tube in, this was not at the specialized hospital.

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Speaker 2: When they put the tube in, they didn't train me

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Speaker 2: how to use it. And I was in so much

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Speaker 2: pain that they told me don't use it until it

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Speaker 2: works out. And then they sent me home. And it

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Speaker 2: was like, I couldn't move. I couldn't breathe. And my

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Speaker 2: stomach just kept spasming and squeezing the tube, you know,

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Speaker 2: and it was just like horrific. And finally got into

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Speaker 2: the specialized hospital and they said like, well, you were like,

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Speaker 2: your potassium was so low that you could have died,

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Speaker 2: you know, but we ended up having to remove the

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Speaker 2: G tube because it was too painful. Um, and I

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Speaker 2: didn't want to live a life on, uh, opiates you

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Speaker 2: know um and so finally got it out and i

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Speaker 2: was in the hospital long enough for my body which

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Speaker 2: we eventually found out i've got these i have a

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Speaker 2: combination of connective tissue disease autoimmune disease and a neurological

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Speaker 2: disease so the neurological disease is what caused my esophagus

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Speaker 2: to die it's like there's no brain signal telling it

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Speaker 2: to telling it to um you know, squeeze, but then

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Speaker 2: it'll suddenly get it to lock up. And, you know,

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Speaker 2: last year my bladder stopped working. I had to get

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Speaker 2: a bladder, um, pacemaker, you know, so different parts of

327
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Speaker 2: my body functionally will stop working because of the neurological disease.

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Speaker 2: But with this combination of illnesses, they kind of work

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Speaker 2: together to come and like flare up and then calm down. Um,

330
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Speaker 2: And so I got to this place where I was

331
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Speaker 2: in the hospital long enough. I was getting regular fluids.

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Speaker 2: And they, you know, got to kind of a stable place.

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Speaker 2: And they took out the tube. And I got back home.

334
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Speaker 2: And I was able to... And at this point, you know,

335
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Speaker 2: when they first told me that my esophagus was dead,

336
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Speaker 2: they said, once this happens, you cannot bring it back.

337
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Speaker 2: There is no instance ever where an esophagus... comes back

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Speaker 2: to life you know you can't resurrect it's essentially yeah

339
00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:44,919
Speaker 2: it's essentially nerve death and um and so that was

340
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Speaker 2: at the point where they said you'll be on a

341
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Speaker 2: liquid diet for life um.

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Speaker 1: Which by the way and so about about how long

343
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Speaker 1: of a period is it from from the onset of

344
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Speaker 1: symptoms to when you hear that.

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Speaker 2: A month oh it was about okay Yeah, it takes

346
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Speaker 2: a long time for the doctors to get the test.

347
00:23:05,740 --> 00:23:08,040
Speaker 2: I was waiting for the test results for that manometry

348
00:23:08,100 --> 00:23:11,550
Speaker 2: for weeks and just like, oh, I'm so tired of

349
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Speaker 2: literal starvation. And so it was kind of this, it

350
00:23:15,190 --> 00:23:18,830
Speaker 2: was strangely like a very sacred time for me because

351
00:23:18,930 --> 00:23:21,670
Speaker 2: I had to be so dependent on Jesus. It was

352
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Speaker 2: just kind of like this minute by minute, like feeling

353
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Speaker 2: an intensity of hunger I just didn't know was possible,

354
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Speaker 2: you know? just, just literally just clinging onto the truth

355
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Speaker 2: that like Jesus, I need Jesus more than I need food.

356
00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:44,580
Speaker 2: I actually need the word of God sustaining my, my

357
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Speaker 2: body and keeping me alive. And so it was just like,

358
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Speaker 2: I just would recite the same scriptures over and over again.

359
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Speaker 2: And I, I don't know. I like, it was really hard,

360
00:23:53,770 --> 00:23:56,010
Speaker 2: but strangely it was so much harder for my family

361
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Speaker 2: than it was for me. Um, because I just felt this. Yeah.

362
00:23:59,869 --> 00:24:02,070
Speaker 1: I've been watching you. Is that what it is or what?

363
00:24:02,420 --> 00:24:05,860
Speaker 2: Yeah, watching me and, you know, seeing me in that

364
00:24:05,900 --> 00:24:09,480
Speaker 2: much pain, you know, seeing me every time I tried

365
00:24:09,500 --> 00:24:12,020
Speaker 2: to take a sip of something, just like throwing it

366
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Speaker 2: back up. And, um, and for my husband, he just

367
00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:18,899
Speaker 2: was like, you couldn't handle like, why would God be

368
00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:21,920
Speaker 2: doing this? You know? And our family had already gone

369
00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:24,880
Speaker 2: through hard times. And so he's thinking, why, why this now?

370
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Speaker 2: You know?

371
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Speaker 1: Um, and, and.

372
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Speaker 2: I just felt this like, oh my gosh, I'm, And

373
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Speaker 2: it was at that time that during that month of

374
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Speaker 2: starvation before we knew what happened, it was at that

375
00:24:37,609 --> 00:24:40,840
Speaker 2: time that Lindsay had said to me, like, you know,

376
00:24:40,940 --> 00:24:43,600
Speaker 2: we had just recently become Anglican. And so he was

377
00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:46,260
Speaker 2: reading a lot of the early church fathers, which were

378
00:24:46,300 --> 00:24:51,030
Speaker 2: basically the writers, you know, after Jesus and the disciples,

379
00:24:51,070 --> 00:24:54,070
Speaker 2: these are the disciples' disciples and what they wrote. And

380
00:24:54,210 --> 00:24:59,669
Speaker 2: so he was like, you know, he's like, they would actually...

381
00:25:00,490 --> 00:25:05,990
Speaker 2: call you blessed because they saw fasting as so, so important.

382
00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:08,430
Speaker 2: He's like, so there has to be something good about

383
00:25:08,470 --> 00:25:10,400
Speaker 2: what you're going through. He's like, I don't know what

384
00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:14,860
Speaker 2: it is, but like, we need to find out, you know? Um,

385
00:25:15,260 --> 00:25:18,000
Speaker 2: and so I really just pressed in and called. I'm like, okay,

386
00:25:18,500 --> 00:25:20,939
Speaker 2: this is a fast. It's a fast. I didn't choose,

387
00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:25,720
Speaker 2: but like, this is, I'm fasting, you know? And what, um,

388
00:25:26,750 --> 00:25:29,490
Speaker 2: What do you actually get out of that? Because that's

389
00:25:29,550 --> 00:25:33,909
Speaker 2: something I just always hated doing because I love food.

390
00:25:33,950 --> 00:25:35,260
Speaker 1: You know, it's funny you say it. I was talking

391
00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:39,629
Speaker 1: about fasting to someone the other day. Right. And, you know,

392
00:25:39,690 --> 00:25:45,100
Speaker 1: I think we, in a sense, miss sometimes why we fast. Right.

393
00:25:45,140 --> 00:25:47,479
Speaker 1: And I think especially in culture today. Right. We kind

394
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:51,300
Speaker 1: of see it as like, well, it's like a it's

395
00:25:51,340 --> 00:25:55,369
Speaker 1: like a Jesus approved diet. Okay. Like, I know I'm

396
00:25:55,390 --> 00:25:58,350
Speaker 1: going to do this and I'll lose weight and then

397
00:25:58,369 --> 00:26:01,830
Speaker 1: I can spiritualize it as well. And it's like, no,

398
00:26:01,869 --> 00:26:05,990
Speaker 1: like you're supposed to feel the hunger pains. And that

399
00:26:06,050 --> 00:26:12,230
Speaker 1: is a reminder to go to Jesus. Like, yeah, it's like, yeah. Yeah, exactly.

400
00:26:12,250 --> 00:26:15,730
Speaker 2: Or, yeah. Or people will fast something that is just

401
00:26:15,780 --> 00:26:18,460
Speaker 2: probably not good for them. And they'll be like, well,

402
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:21,320
Speaker 2: I'm doing a time where I'm fasting, you know, scrolling

403
00:26:21,380 --> 00:26:25,250
Speaker 2: social media. And I'm like, you do that anyway yeah

404
00:26:25,290 --> 00:26:27,369
Speaker 2: right it's like if you know this isn't good for

405
00:26:27,390 --> 00:26:30,450
Speaker 2: you it's like um yeah by.

406
00:26:30,390 --> 00:26:32,230
Speaker 1: The way before we move on though i want to

407
00:26:32,330 --> 00:26:39,250
Speaker 1: ask you is was there something that um was kind

408
00:26:39,350 --> 00:26:44,100
Speaker 1: of the uh the impetus for this flaring up or

409
00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:46,960
Speaker 1: for this happening or for or was it just something

410
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:48,920
Speaker 1: that kind of been working in the background your whole

411
00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:51,619
Speaker 1: life and you didn't realize it Or did stress or

412
00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:53,580
Speaker 1: trauma or did something bring it on?

413
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:58,580
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a great question. And we have a few theories.

414
00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:02,030
Speaker 2: First of all, yes, there's a big buildup my whole life.

415
00:27:03,910 --> 00:27:07,669
Speaker 2: You know, back in 2017, I had this, I was

416
00:27:07,690 --> 00:27:10,889
Speaker 2: supposed to have this easy appendectomy. I had a tumor

417
00:27:10,910 --> 00:27:13,370
Speaker 2: on my appendix and they went to remove it. Turned

418
00:27:13,410 --> 00:27:15,840
Speaker 2: into an eight-hour surgery because my bowels were all ripping

419
00:27:15,890 --> 00:27:18,639
Speaker 2: apart and they couldn't sew them back together. And they

420
00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:22,930
Speaker 2: were like, something you know and my pregnancies were hard

421
00:27:22,990 --> 00:27:25,970
Speaker 2: I had a lot of miscarriages um there was just

422
00:27:26,010 --> 00:27:29,650
Speaker 2: a lot of there's always intensity you know I've had

423
00:27:29,670 --> 00:27:33,310
Speaker 2: a hip reconstruction because my hip joint fell apart um

424
00:27:34,250 --> 00:27:37,929
Speaker 2: and so we knew something was wrong but with the

425
00:27:37,970 --> 00:27:42,790
Speaker 2: neurological things that really seemed to kick off um there

426
00:27:42,830 --> 00:27:44,840
Speaker 2: were a couple things first of all our family went

427
00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:50,680
Speaker 2: through just a very like a deep time of stress

428
00:27:50,790 --> 00:27:54,950
Speaker 2: that brought us back to us from Scotland. And then, um,

429
00:27:55,470 --> 00:28:00,550
Speaker 2: I'm like, I, I hesitate saying this cause I, I can't,

430
00:28:00,810 --> 00:28:05,230
Speaker 2: I can't guarantee that this is why, but, um, right, right.

431
00:28:05,330 --> 00:28:08,350
Speaker 2: About a month before this happened, um, I got my

432
00:28:08,410 --> 00:28:13,859
Speaker 2: first COVID vaccine. And then when I saw the esophageal

433
00:28:13,900 --> 00:28:15,720
Speaker 2: specialist and she met with me, she was like, just

434
00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:19,030
Speaker 2: out of curiosity, did you, did you get your COVID

435
00:28:19,070 --> 00:28:24,679
Speaker 2: vaccine recently? I was like, well, I got the first

436
00:28:24,700 --> 00:28:28,359
Speaker 2: one like a couple months ago. She was like, maybe

437
00:28:28,380 --> 00:28:31,780
Speaker 2: just don't get any more. And I was like, really?

438
00:28:31,820 --> 00:28:34,220
Speaker 2: And she's like, well, we've seen, you've seen a lot

439
00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:40,660
Speaker 2: of motility disorders after the, after the COVID vaccine. And yeah.

440
00:28:40,940 --> 00:28:42,960
Speaker 2: And it's like, you know, this can happen with vaccine.

441
00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:45,240
Speaker 2: It was a vaccine that made my dad suddenly go

442
00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:49,260
Speaker 2: blind when, when I was 14. Couldn't have seen it coming,

443
00:28:49,300 --> 00:28:54,520
Speaker 2: you know. But so we're not exactly sure, but it

444
00:28:54,580 --> 00:29:00,540
Speaker 2: definitely was probably a combination of like stress and just

445
00:29:01,020 --> 00:29:04,410
Speaker 2: family trauma. And then, yeah, it's so hard to know

446
00:29:04,450 --> 00:29:08,570
Speaker 2: when there's so many different things at play. Yeah.

447
00:29:08,850 --> 00:29:12,090
Speaker 1: All right. So sorry for going on that rabbit trail

448
00:29:12,110 --> 00:29:14,890
Speaker 1: of stuff. But so you're a month in, you're a

449
00:29:14,890 --> 00:29:17,750
Speaker 1: month in, if you will, and now kind of bring

450
00:29:17,810 --> 00:29:18,130
Speaker 1: us there.

451
00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:23,260
Speaker 2: Yeah. A month in, um, I finally get the G tube.

452
00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:27,360
Speaker 2: That was a disaster. Um, got the G tube out

453
00:29:28,220 --> 00:29:30,330
Speaker 2: and I finally came to this place where the flare

454
00:29:30,370 --> 00:29:32,670
Speaker 2: was down and I was able to, if I just

455
00:29:32,830 --> 00:29:37,910
Speaker 2: drink small amounts of, you know, clear liquids, throughout the

456
00:29:37,950 --> 00:29:42,060
Speaker 2: day I can get it down because of that we

457
00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:44,440
Speaker 2: had also found out that my esophagus had just swollen

458
00:29:44,500 --> 00:29:46,860
Speaker 2: up so much so that's why water wasn't getting through

459
00:29:47,380 --> 00:29:50,340
Speaker 2: and so having that like GI rest as they called

460
00:29:50,380 --> 00:29:53,560
Speaker 2: it in the hospital I was able to finally start

461
00:29:53,740 --> 00:29:59,280
Speaker 2: swallowing fluids and and I got home from the hospital

462
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:02,420
Speaker 2: I got, I had just gotten the G tube out

463
00:30:03,140 --> 00:30:05,280
Speaker 2: and I was finally, you know, able to at least

464
00:30:05,340 --> 00:30:10,920
Speaker 2: swallow clear liquids. And I had had that like amazing,

465
00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:13,640
Speaker 2: like sacred time with Jesus, just relying on him every day.

466
00:30:13,660 --> 00:30:17,420
Speaker 2: And then I was finally like, I am so done

467
00:30:17,460 --> 00:30:21,340
Speaker 2: with this. Like I'm home. I am off the pain meds.

468
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:25,040
Speaker 2: I can swallow some stuff and I just want my

469
00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:29,370
Speaker 2: life back. And I, And I started to like, that's

470
00:30:29,390 --> 00:30:31,310
Speaker 2: when I really, it really started to hit me, the

471
00:30:31,350 --> 00:30:34,310
Speaker 2: loss of food, which had honestly been quite like a,

472
00:30:35,150 --> 00:30:39,430
Speaker 2: it's how I like self-medicate my stress is food. And,

473
00:30:41,570 --> 00:30:45,320
Speaker 2: you know, I like, I love cooking. And I was like,

474
00:30:45,780 --> 00:30:48,420
Speaker 2: you know, looking at culinary schools now that we had

475
00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:50,940
Speaker 2: gotten back to America. And I was just like so

476
00:30:51,020 --> 00:30:55,400
Speaker 2: mad that I, you know, so mad that food was gone.

477
00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:58,220
Speaker 2: And I was like, well, I need my thing. And

478
00:30:58,380 --> 00:31:04,330
Speaker 2: so I, I liked alcohol. I had never really like, um,

479
00:31:05,490 --> 00:31:07,790
Speaker 2: there was just like kind of a special fun thing.

480
00:31:07,850 --> 00:31:10,510
Speaker 2: I liked drinking with my friends and my family. Um,

481
00:31:12,330 --> 00:31:15,720
Speaker 2: but it had never been, never really struggled with it

482
00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:20,220
Speaker 2: like as an addiction or something like I, like I

483
00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:22,720
Speaker 2: could count on one hand the number of times I'd

484
00:31:22,980 --> 00:31:27,070
Speaker 2: gotten drunk, you know? Um, but it was just like,

485
00:31:27,130 --> 00:31:31,150
Speaker 2: I had lost, you know, 40 pounds over that month.

486
00:31:32,130 --> 00:31:36,810
Speaker 2: And so alcohol suddenly like hit me really fast. And, um,

487
00:31:37,890 --> 00:31:40,850
Speaker 2: and I had an empty stomach with no food in it,

488
00:31:40,870 --> 00:31:49,150
Speaker 2: just water. And, um, I just started. Yeah. I just

489
00:31:49,340 --> 00:31:52,780
Speaker 2: like alcohol was like my only thing. It was my treat. And,

490
00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:56,590
Speaker 2: you know, I drink, clear soup and things like that,

491
00:31:56,630 --> 00:31:58,930
Speaker 2: but it was just so not fun. And so it

492
00:31:58,950 --> 00:32:03,840
Speaker 2: was like, yeah. So that was when I, I just

493
00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:11,500
Speaker 2: started relying on alcohol and just thinking this is, this

494
00:32:11,580 --> 00:32:14,060
Speaker 2: is my one treat, you know, like this is the

495
00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:16,380
Speaker 2: thing that I get. Everyone else gets to eat food,

496
00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:18,630
Speaker 2: you know, the kind of formal feeling of like, I

497
00:32:18,650 --> 00:32:21,800
Speaker 2: went to this dinner for my dad was being honored

498
00:32:21,860 --> 00:32:24,140
Speaker 2: at Boeing for working there for 40 years. And they

499
00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:29,920
Speaker 2: had this fancy like food buffet and everyone in my

500
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:34,700
Speaker 2: family's all, you know, eating and stuff. And I'm looking

501
00:32:34,740 --> 00:32:37,500
Speaker 2: at all this food and I'm just like, just like

502
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:39,680
Speaker 2: made friends with this one waiter. And I'm like, Hey,

503
00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:42,120
Speaker 2: can I have another rusty nail, please? Thank you so much.

504
00:32:42,300 --> 00:32:43,800
Speaker 2: You know, and it's just like, this is my thing.

505
00:32:43,980 --> 00:32:46,310
Speaker 2: Like I'm angry that I'm the only, you know, they're,

506
00:32:46,370 --> 00:32:50,480
Speaker 2: everyone's going to serve steak. give me another drink, you know? Yeah.

507
00:32:50,700 --> 00:32:50,940
Speaker 1: Yeah.

508
00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:56,480
Speaker 2: Yeah. And it was like, I, and it wasn't even

509
00:32:56,540 --> 00:33:00,080
Speaker 2: so much a problem of, of getting drunk though. That

510
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:04,960
Speaker 2: did happen. Um, it did start happening, but it was

511
00:33:05,020 --> 00:33:08,010
Speaker 2: just like this, like, I just like grasped onto it,

512
00:33:08,330 --> 00:33:08,620
Speaker 2: you know?

513
00:33:09,180 --> 00:33:14,210
Speaker 1: Um, and the other thing, everything else has been taken away. So,

514
00:33:14,270 --> 00:33:17,570
Speaker 1: you know what? I just, I'm going to use this as,

515
00:33:18,090 --> 00:33:20,210
Speaker 1: My thing. Right. And by the way, you said something

516
00:33:20,250 --> 00:33:22,310
Speaker 1: there that I think I want to highlight, too, is

517
00:33:22,350 --> 00:33:25,870
Speaker 1: like so if people if you're listening to this and

518
00:33:25,910 --> 00:33:28,890
Speaker 1: your struggle has been alcohol, I think sometimes you can

519
00:33:28,930 --> 00:33:33,410
Speaker 1: probably take this the same approach Natasha took, which is, OK,

520
00:33:33,490 --> 00:33:35,760
Speaker 1: now that I've cut out alcohol and I quote unquote

521
00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:41,760
Speaker 1: can't have that now, I'm going to do something else. Right.

522
00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:42,240
Speaker 2: Yes.

523
00:33:42,460 --> 00:33:45,420
Speaker 1: Now I'm going to I'm going to. I can't have alcohol.

524
00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:48,650
Speaker 1: So I deserve to do, you know, to treat food

525
00:33:48,710 --> 00:33:51,970
Speaker 1: this way or I deserve or I can have Netflix

526
00:33:52,010 --> 00:33:56,510
Speaker 1: in this way or, you know, like gaming, work, whatever,

527
00:33:56,550 --> 00:33:59,910
Speaker 1: like feeling. OK, I've given this up. But I think

528
00:33:59,950 --> 00:34:02,490
Speaker 1: especially with like some of the more, quote unquote, acceptable

529
00:34:02,530 --> 00:34:07,050
Speaker 1: things like, OK, so this is food. I can be

530
00:34:07,270 --> 00:34:09,549
Speaker 1: a little bit more over the top with fill in

531
00:34:09,570 --> 00:34:12,149
Speaker 1: the blank exercise. I think that's another big one. Right.

532
00:34:12,550 --> 00:34:12,840
Speaker 2: Yes.

533
00:34:13,180 --> 00:34:17,920
Speaker 1: Like body image stuff. And it's like because I'm giving

534
00:34:17,980 --> 00:34:19,500
Speaker 1: up this or I can't have this, then I can

535
00:34:19,540 --> 00:34:21,899
Speaker 1: have this. And it's like it's the same thing. It's

536
00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:23,620
Speaker 1: the same in a sense core heart.

537
00:34:23,660 --> 00:34:27,839
Speaker 2: Yes, exactly. It's the same the same core heart issue. Um,

538
00:34:27,980 --> 00:34:30,170
Speaker 2: I think there's an aspect of gluttony to it. I

539
00:34:30,210 --> 00:34:33,750
Speaker 2: deserve this. I want an abundance of some kind. This

540
00:34:33,850 --> 00:34:35,750
Speaker 2: is my, this is like the way I talk about it.

541
00:34:35,770 --> 00:34:38,069
Speaker 2: My book is like, this is my feast. Like this

542
00:34:38,170 --> 00:34:41,080
Speaker 2: is the, um, this is what, where I get to

543
00:34:41,140 --> 00:34:46,339
Speaker 2: experience like overabundance, not just, it's not moderation. It's more

544
00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:49,430
Speaker 2: than what I need, you know? Um, I'm going and

545
00:34:49,530 --> 00:34:51,710
Speaker 2: it's an idol, you know, it's, it's the new idol.

546
00:34:52,810 --> 00:34:54,250
Speaker 2: And by the way.

547
00:34:54,430 --> 00:34:56,989
Speaker 1: You said you were getting drunk, you know, getting drunk more.

548
00:34:57,050 --> 00:34:58,690
Speaker 1: But I think, you know, and this is what I

549
00:34:58,730 --> 00:35:02,720
Speaker 1: talk about in my book. That's not the only indicator,

550
00:35:02,780 --> 00:35:04,380
Speaker 1: especially for Christians, right?

551
00:35:05,420 --> 00:35:10,380
Speaker 2: No, you can struggle with nobody knows. Yes, yes.

552
00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:15,060
Speaker 1: And if you are treating it and giving it a

553
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:17,739
Speaker 1: job that it was never meant to be given, right?

554
00:35:18,140 --> 00:35:21,060
Speaker 1: Especially for the Christian in the way that the scriptures

555
00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:26,670
Speaker 1: talk about the creation over the creator like it's a problem.

556
00:35:28,140 --> 00:35:33,080
Speaker 2: Absolutely absolutely and you're actually like pinpointing kind of like

557
00:35:34,739 --> 00:35:37,549
Speaker 2: the core the core thing in my book i i

558
00:35:37,610 --> 00:35:40,430
Speaker 2: preface my book by saying this book is a prayer

559
00:35:41,070 --> 00:35:44,609
Speaker 2: because i my heart didn't get solved i didn't make

560
00:35:44,670 --> 00:35:47,750
Speaker 2: it through the trial and say I'm done now. Moving

561
00:35:47,810 --> 00:35:51,089
Speaker 2: on to the next trial. It's a, this is the

562
00:35:51,250 --> 00:35:58,029
Speaker 2: human trial of when you experience, like, I call it

563
00:35:58,070 --> 00:36:00,940
Speaker 2: like lack or emptiness. So like when you just, when you,

564
00:36:01,060 --> 00:36:04,320
Speaker 2: let's say you can't have alcohol anymore, there's now this emptiness,

565
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:07,880
Speaker 2: this void that alcohol used to fill. And our tendency

566
00:36:07,900 --> 00:36:11,569
Speaker 2: as humans is to instantly fill that void with something else.

567
00:36:12,420 --> 00:36:15,020
Speaker 2: And to say like, you know, or like you have

568
00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:17,720
Speaker 2: any kind of loss, like I have a miscarriage. Okay,

569
00:36:17,820 --> 00:36:20,380
Speaker 2: I'm going to treat myself by buying a bunch of stuff,

570
00:36:20,420 --> 00:36:24,240
Speaker 2: which is what I did after my first miscarriage. Or

571
00:36:25,590 --> 00:36:29,430
Speaker 2: I can't have food anymore. Alcohol is my new food.

572
00:36:29,469 --> 00:36:35,489
Speaker 2: It's my new gluttony, you know. And what fasting is, it's,

573
00:36:36,170 --> 00:36:39,370
Speaker 2: you know, let's say chosen fasting. That's just the Christian discipline.

574
00:36:39,980 --> 00:36:44,120
Speaker 2: It's the Christian practicing having emptiness, having lack, and not

575
00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:49,030
Speaker 2: filling it for a time so that you can actually

576
00:36:49,150 --> 00:36:55,730
Speaker 2: see and experience that Jesus is enough here. If you

577
00:36:55,770 --> 00:36:58,219
Speaker 2: just kind of sit in the emptiness and let it

578
00:36:58,300 --> 00:37:03,200
Speaker 2: be and let Jesus come in, you can experience it. One,

579
00:37:03,219 --> 00:37:05,940
Speaker 2: you can experience him in a way you've never experienced

580
00:37:05,980 --> 00:37:10,170
Speaker 2: him before. And two... you're actually okay. Cause that was

581
00:37:10,210 --> 00:37:12,390
Speaker 2: the big thing, you know, with food, with food, I

582
00:37:12,590 --> 00:37:16,270
Speaker 2: never fasted, you know, as a Christian always avoided, or

583
00:37:16,310 --> 00:37:18,470
Speaker 2: if I did it, I like cheated, you know, because

584
00:37:18,489 --> 00:37:22,560
Speaker 2: I just did not believe that I would be okay.

585
00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:28,240
Speaker 2: Like I could not imagine being hungry or letting myself

586
00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:31,910
Speaker 2: stay hungry. I didn't think I couldn't do it, you know?

587
00:37:32,460 --> 00:37:35,950
Speaker 2: And it was like that month of starvation was like

588
00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:39,370
Speaker 2: experiencing Jesus big enough. But what was interesting is how

589
00:37:39,510 --> 00:37:40,510
Speaker 2: quickly I went.

590
00:37:40,489 --> 00:37:41,090
Speaker 1: And filled in.

591
00:37:41,110 --> 00:37:43,830
Speaker 2: I'm like, okay, that was a nice fast. Filling that

592
00:37:43,890 --> 00:37:50,290
Speaker 2: gap with alcohol now. And I wasn't like in that

593
00:37:50,370 --> 00:37:52,670
Speaker 2: place of like, okay, Jesus, you're enough here. I'm like,

594
00:37:52,690 --> 00:37:55,370
Speaker 2: all right, I've experienced you. I know that's great that

595
00:37:55,390 --> 00:37:58,480
Speaker 2: you can do that. And I still believe that. But

596
00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:00,339
Speaker 2: right now, I just want this.

597
00:38:01,290 --> 00:38:04,410
Speaker 1: And you know what? I'm so glad you brought that

598
00:38:04,530 --> 00:38:07,210
Speaker 1: out because I'd made a note to kind of come

599
00:38:07,250 --> 00:38:13,740
Speaker 1: back to that, which is it's– I think a lot

600
00:38:13,780 --> 00:38:17,750
Speaker 1: of people who haven't experienced this like you and I,

601
00:38:18,060 --> 00:38:22,620
Speaker 1: they look at people who struggle with addiction or are

602
00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:26,300
Speaker 1: struggling in an area, whether it's with alcohol or porn

603
00:38:26,340 --> 00:38:33,270
Speaker 1: or fill it in. And they think you must be

604
00:38:33,710 --> 00:38:39,190
Speaker 1: so far removed from Jesus. And, you know, your spiritual

605
00:38:39,230 --> 00:38:43,380
Speaker 1: life is so dead or, you know, whatever. And and

606
00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:44,799
Speaker 1: I talk about this a little bit in my book

607
00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:48,960
Speaker 1: as well. But it's like, had I abandoned my first love? Yes.

608
00:38:49,340 --> 00:38:50,660
Speaker 1: And was there a slow fade?

609
00:38:50,860 --> 00:38:51,040
Speaker 3: Yes.

610
00:38:51,380 --> 00:38:54,049
Speaker 1: But I was also active in my church. I was

611
00:38:54,150 --> 00:38:57,750
Speaker 1: also like. Like I was pointing people to Jesus. Right.

612
00:38:57,850 --> 00:39:01,210
Speaker 1: And there were aspects of my life where I was cultivating,

613
00:39:01,230 --> 00:39:05,750
Speaker 1: you know, and practicing spiritual disciplines and whatnot. And and

614
00:39:06,050 --> 00:39:09,800
Speaker 1: and sure, for some people, maybe they've really grown far

615
00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:13,240
Speaker 1: apart from the Lord. And then this kind of happens.

616
00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:13,640
Speaker 2: But for me.

617
00:39:13,930 --> 00:39:17,149
Speaker 1: But for you, for me, for others, that growing apart

618
00:39:17,170 --> 00:39:19,620
Speaker 1: from the Lord can happen over the course of a week,

619
00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:21,450
Speaker 1: a month, a day. I mean, I don't know, right?

620
00:39:21,450 --> 00:39:27,299
Speaker 1: Like you were in such a sweet, the phrase you

621
00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:29,500
Speaker 1: used earlier was so good, but like you were in

622
00:39:30,020 --> 00:39:34,420
Speaker 1: this period of just such sweet dependence on Jesus and

623
00:39:34,660 --> 00:39:38,410
Speaker 1: then bam, right? And so this is why I talk

624
00:39:38,430 --> 00:39:41,130
Speaker 1: about like abiding in Christ is a daily thing. It's

625
00:39:41,150 --> 00:39:44,250
Speaker 1: like we have to do it. It's a daily practice

626
00:39:44,330 --> 00:39:48,410
Speaker 1: and decision in cultivating that experiential relationship with Jesus. And

627
00:39:48,790 --> 00:39:52,940
Speaker 1: because yeah, maybe it takes six months, you know, but

628
00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:56,089
Speaker 1: maybe it takes six hours for that, for that, you know,

629
00:39:56,130 --> 00:39:57,950
Speaker 1: for the, for the enemy to like creep in and

630
00:39:59,230 --> 00:40:00,830
Speaker 1: all of a sudden you're like, okay, that was great.

631
00:40:00,870 --> 00:40:02,810
Speaker 1: I loved that time. Thank you, Jesus. So glad you

632
00:40:02,830 --> 00:40:05,779
Speaker 1: sustained me. And you know what? Guess what? It's easier

633
00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:09,060
Speaker 1: now to find that sustainment in alcohol. It is, you know,

634
00:40:09,340 --> 00:40:10,359
Speaker 1: we'll be right back after this.

635
00:40:13,340 --> 00:40:18,440
Speaker 2: Yeah. And that changing your heart, um, it's just, It's

636
00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:22,540
Speaker 2: just the tiniest little posture change that you don't notice

637
00:40:22,620 --> 00:40:25,540
Speaker 2: a difference at first. But in your heart, you go

638
00:40:25,660 --> 00:40:30,980
Speaker 2: from trusting in the Lord, being grateful for the gift

639
00:40:31,020 --> 00:40:37,190
Speaker 2: of today to I'm searching for something to kind of

640
00:40:37,270 --> 00:40:42,040
Speaker 2: satiate this feeling that I have of wanting more. more

641
00:40:42,100 --> 00:40:47,540
Speaker 2: wanting to be rewarded or cared for, or, um, or

642
00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:52,250
Speaker 2: oftentimes for me, um, you helping me not to think

643
00:40:52,270 --> 00:40:55,530
Speaker 2: about the pain because pain is such a huge, huge

644
00:40:55,690 --> 00:41:01,630
Speaker 2: aspect of my chronic illness is excruciating pain and alcohol

645
00:41:03,190 --> 00:41:06,719
Speaker 2: makes you not care. And the other thing is, and

646
00:41:08,100 --> 00:41:10,400
Speaker 2: this is a really complicated thing for me is, um,

647
00:41:11,010 --> 00:41:14,410
Speaker 2: When I would have an esophageal blockage, let's say, I

648
00:41:14,450 --> 00:41:16,770
Speaker 2: had these stupid moments where I would tell myself, this

649
00:41:16,830 --> 00:41:18,989
Speaker 2: is all in my head, my throat's fine, and I'd

650
00:41:19,030 --> 00:41:22,790
Speaker 2: eat something, and then it'd get stuck. And one of

651
00:41:22,810 --> 00:41:25,810
Speaker 2: the only things, and it was so funny because this

652
00:41:25,870 --> 00:41:31,010
Speaker 2: guy on a forum for people with dysmotility had mentioned

653
00:41:31,070 --> 00:41:33,529
Speaker 2: that whiskey clears his throat because it just gets it

654
00:41:33,590 --> 00:41:36,739
Speaker 2: to dilate. And so I would try just taking a

655
00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:39,080
Speaker 2: shot or two of whiskey, and it would get through.

656
00:41:39,940 --> 00:41:44,299
Speaker 2: And so there was this like medication aspect that was like,

657
00:41:44,340 --> 00:41:47,239
Speaker 2: you know, not approved by my doctors, but just like,

658
00:41:47,860 --> 00:41:51,140
Speaker 2: I'd be in a panic. Cause like the, the, the

659
00:41:51,160 --> 00:41:54,170
Speaker 2: blockages would cause this chest pain that feels like a

660
00:41:54,210 --> 00:41:57,489
Speaker 2: heart attack. And I would just be freaking out and

661
00:41:57,530 --> 00:42:00,930
Speaker 2: just like storming around the house and sobbing. And my

662
00:42:00,969 --> 00:42:04,330
Speaker 2: husband would be like, try a shot of whiskey, you know?

663
00:42:04,410 --> 00:42:06,969
Speaker 2: And it's like, he's not, you know, we're not really

664
00:42:07,050 --> 00:42:10,980
Speaker 2: thinking about alcohol. I mean, You know, he doesn't like

665
00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:13,799
Speaker 2: he doesn't like it when I've had alcohol and become

666
00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:16,700
Speaker 2: a different person. But even he would be like, oh,

667
00:42:16,739 --> 00:42:19,120
Speaker 2: I guess, well, should we try this? You know, and

668
00:42:19,180 --> 00:42:22,840
Speaker 2: so I had this like I had this easy excuse

669
00:42:22,900 --> 00:42:27,069
Speaker 2: to say, well, I'm I'm medicating. You know, it helps

670
00:42:27,110 --> 00:42:29,969
Speaker 2: with the pain. It helps getting food through and it

671
00:42:30,010 --> 00:42:31,950
Speaker 2: makes me feel better. And I go into this happy

672
00:42:31,989 --> 00:42:33,750
Speaker 2: mood and then I go and make dinner for the

673
00:42:33,790 --> 00:42:37,790
Speaker 2: family because when I'm doing really poorly, I don't make

674
00:42:37,830 --> 00:42:41,940
Speaker 2: dinner for the family. Um, when I'm, when I've had

675
00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:44,140
Speaker 2: some whiskey, I'm like, great kids, what do you want

676
00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:46,760
Speaker 2: to eat? I'll make you anything, you know? And especially

677
00:42:46,820 --> 00:42:49,620
Speaker 2: since again, you know, just being a traditional stay at

678
00:42:49,660 --> 00:42:53,239
Speaker 2: home mom, I make food for my kids and making

679
00:42:53,360 --> 00:42:56,140
Speaker 2: food is a sore spot for me. And so I,

680
00:42:56,969 --> 00:43:00,350
Speaker 2: and I don't like the feeling of making a meal

681
00:43:00,390 --> 00:43:02,910
Speaker 2: that I don't get to eat, which Lindsay's been amazing

682
00:43:02,969 --> 00:43:06,989
Speaker 2: about and very often will offer to make the food. But, um,

683
00:43:07,550 --> 00:43:12,440
Speaker 2: but to kind of like, Help. My discomfort. Alcohol makes

684
00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:13,700
Speaker 2: me not mind. You know.

685
00:43:13,719 --> 00:43:14,900
Speaker 1: Yep. And.

686
00:43:14,920 --> 00:43:16,280
Speaker 2: I did the same thing.

687
00:43:16,739 --> 00:43:18,160
Speaker 1: Like. I started having a lot of.

688
00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:18,880
Speaker 3: Of.

689
00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:19,920
Speaker 1: Tooth issues.

690
00:43:21,239 --> 00:43:21,469
Speaker 2: And.

691
00:43:22,890 --> 00:43:25,770
Speaker 1: Where I. I mean. I've had several. Root canals. And

692
00:43:25,790 --> 00:43:30,569
Speaker 1: they've all failed. You can't tell right now. But like.

693
00:43:30,930 --> 00:43:31,230
Speaker 3: I have.

694
00:43:31,489 --> 00:43:31,689
Speaker 2: Had.

695
00:43:32,590 --> 00:43:37,299
Speaker 1: Let me see. Three teeth pulled. That I haven't been

696
00:43:37,340 --> 00:43:37,819
Speaker 1: able to like.

697
00:43:38,180 --> 00:43:38,379
Speaker 2: Get.

698
00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:43,180
Speaker 1: Like, replaced yet. Now, they're all in the back, which

699
00:43:43,239 --> 00:43:45,450
Speaker 1: is nice. I have another one that I need to

700
00:43:45,489 --> 00:43:50,069
Speaker 1: get pulled and replaced. And so, as those things started, like, that,

701
00:43:50,430 --> 00:43:52,430
Speaker 1: you know, started happening around the time that I really

702
00:43:52,469 --> 00:43:55,790
Speaker 1: started using alcohol, and I use it as a justification

703
00:43:55,830 --> 00:43:58,450
Speaker 1: as well, right? Like, well, I don't want to, like,

704
00:43:58,790 --> 00:44:01,230
Speaker 1: what am I going to do? Like, try to get

705
00:44:01,270 --> 00:44:04,719
Speaker 1: pain meds for it? Because I don't know, people who haven't,

706
00:44:04,820 --> 00:44:06,960
Speaker 1: or who have, I guess, have had tooth pain.

707
00:44:07,320 --> 00:44:07,540
Speaker 2: I mean.

708
00:44:08,530 --> 00:44:12,150
Speaker 1: It just and I'm not I'm not saying that I'm

709
00:44:12,190 --> 00:44:14,890
Speaker 1: not trying to compare to what you've gone through, but

710
00:44:15,030 --> 00:44:17,089
Speaker 1: for me, at least it's the worst pain that I've had.

711
00:44:17,380 --> 00:44:17,550
Speaker 2: Right.

712
00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:23,120
Speaker 1: And and and just you can't for me, I just

713
00:44:23,180 --> 00:44:28,180
Speaker 1: could not. It was just consuming, right, because you can't

714
00:44:28,260 --> 00:44:31,440
Speaker 1: for me, at least then you can't eat. Drinking was

715
00:44:31,500 --> 00:44:35,040
Speaker 1: hard as well. And so, you know, someone I had

716
00:44:35,080 --> 00:44:38,140
Speaker 1: a friend who joked like, hey, you know, and he

717
00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:42,819
Speaker 1: had really like chronic teeth issues. He's like, you know what?

718
00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:45,860
Speaker 1: When it gets really bad, I just I do. I

719
00:44:45,910 --> 00:44:50,130
Speaker 1: do a couple shots. And so I was already drinking

720
00:44:50,170 --> 00:44:52,830
Speaker 1: a lot, right? Like I didn't need any more justification,

721
00:44:52,870 --> 00:44:55,150
Speaker 1: but my sinful heart was like, woo, yeah, we're going

722
00:44:55,180 --> 00:44:57,260
Speaker 1: to use that one too. Yeah, it's like, cool, okay.

723
00:44:57,300 --> 00:44:57,680
Speaker 2: Yeah.

724
00:44:58,120 --> 00:45:00,440
Speaker 1: And so I'd be like, well, it's better than, you know,

725
00:45:00,560 --> 00:45:02,859
Speaker 1: asking for pain meds and like, you know, potentially getting

726
00:45:02,880 --> 00:45:06,620
Speaker 1: hooked on opiates, right? And so I would just, I would, oh,

727
00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:09,600
Speaker 1: my teeth. And then I found myself even like, maybe

728
00:45:09,640 --> 00:45:11,680
Speaker 1: my teeth weren't hurting as bad, but I would let

729
00:45:11,700 --> 00:45:13,890
Speaker 1: my wife know they were hurting really bad, right?

730
00:45:14,110 --> 00:45:14,509
Speaker 3: Yes, exactly.

731
00:45:14,530 --> 00:45:16,469
Speaker 1: Because then I, you know what I mean?

732
00:45:16,530 --> 00:45:19,069
Speaker 2: It was like, well then- Instantly, it's like, oh, well,

733
00:45:19,090 --> 00:45:21,190
Speaker 2: then of course you should. Right.

734
00:45:21,570 --> 00:45:23,610
Speaker 1: Or if I have a little too much, at least,

735
00:45:23,710 --> 00:45:26,270
Speaker 1: you know, maybe there's a little bit more understanding.

736
00:45:26,469 --> 00:45:26,750
Speaker 2: Right.

737
00:45:27,270 --> 00:45:29,719
Speaker 1: It's like I would do. So, yeah, I would do

738
00:45:31,040 --> 00:45:33,319
Speaker 1: things like that as well. Like, hey, it's a medication

739
00:45:33,580 --> 00:45:36,299
Speaker 1: right here. It's better than the alternative. And I need

740
00:45:36,340 --> 00:45:37,379
Speaker 1: to I need to get through.

741
00:45:38,900 --> 00:45:43,630
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. It's so, so true. And it's so deadly.

742
00:45:43,650 --> 00:45:43,730
Speaker 1: Yeah.

743
00:45:44,250 --> 00:45:45,689
Speaker 2: Um, so because where did.

744
00:45:45,630 --> 00:45:49,830
Speaker 1: You find yourself then? Right. Like, like you, um, you,

745
00:45:50,810 --> 00:45:53,410
Speaker 1: you know, you start having a lot more rusty nails, like,

746
00:45:53,890 --> 00:45:56,129
Speaker 1: you know, and you said, you know, it did start

747
00:45:56,150 --> 00:45:59,310
Speaker 1: to lead more, more drunkenness, but like, what did that

748
00:45:59,469 --> 00:46:02,640
Speaker 1: period of, as you start treating alcohol and using it

749
00:46:02,660 --> 00:46:04,200
Speaker 1: in that way, what did that look like? And what

750
00:46:04,219 --> 00:46:06,200
Speaker 1: did that lead to? Yeah.

751
00:46:06,600 --> 00:46:09,600
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, like kind of, as you referenced earlier,

752
00:46:09,680 --> 00:46:12,830
Speaker 2: like I was like, you know, I would keep my

753
00:46:13,070 --> 00:46:15,570
Speaker 2: friends on social media update with my health because people,

754
00:46:15,730 --> 00:46:17,930
Speaker 2: you know, friends wanted to know how I was doing.

755
00:46:18,270 --> 00:46:20,710
Speaker 2: And I would write updates about how the Lord is

756
00:46:20,750 --> 00:46:22,950
Speaker 2: there for me. And like, it really, like you wouldn't

757
00:46:22,989 --> 00:46:26,300
Speaker 2: have known I was struggling with something like this because

758
00:46:26,320 --> 00:46:30,960
Speaker 2: I was also really trying to seek after God, you know? And, um,

759
00:46:31,940 --> 00:46:36,540
Speaker 2: but this part of my heart was just, yeah, I

760
00:46:36,580 --> 00:46:41,070
Speaker 2: really wasn't in a place of, um, going to Jesus

761
00:46:41,090 --> 00:46:43,859
Speaker 2: for help at all. Like, this was my thing. And

762
00:46:44,910 --> 00:46:47,469
Speaker 2: I started to, there started to be nights where, like,

763
00:46:48,489 --> 00:46:52,410
Speaker 2: this was happening, like, every night. And Lindsey was just

764
00:46:52,430 --> 00:46:55,890
Speaker 2: getting really frustrated because he'd be like, Tasha, like, as

765
00:46:55,950 --> 00:46:59,779
Speaker 2: soon as you've had some shots, you're, like, you're gone.

766
00:46:59,800 --> 00:47:02,620
Speaker 2: And you're someone else. And I try to talk to

767
00:47:02,660 --> 00:47:07,100
Speaker 2: you and you're just, like, you're not retaining anything. And

768
00:47:07,380 --> 00:47:10,140
Speaker 2: then he would find me just, like, I'm, like, having

769
00:47:10,180 --> 00:47:13,140
Speaker 2: all these conversations with the kids where it's like, Lindsay

770
00:47:13,160 --> 00:47:15,379
Speaker 2: would be like, Tasha, that's a big conversation. You should

771
00:47:15,420 --> 00:47:17,660
Speaker 2: really wait for me. And like, have you been drinking?

772
00:47:17,719 --> 00:47:22,060
Speaker 2: You know, things were, they're starting to be evidence. But

773
00:47:22,100 --> 00:47:27,020
Speaker 2: it wasn't until we had just moved into this new

774
00:47:27,060 --> 00:47:30,440
Speaker 2: house and there was a big power outage for days.

775
00:47:31,239 --> 00:47:33,240
Speaker 2: And it was freezing. It was in the middle of winter,

776
00:47:33,260 --> 00:47:34,940
Speaker 2: freezing cold. I had a baby. I was trying to

777
00:47:34,960 --> 00:47:38,410
Speaker 2: keep warm. And she's, like, a toddler, you know, walking

778
00:47:38,450 --> 00:47:45,040
Speaker 2: around in a diaper, you know, stage. And I was

779
00:47:45,120 --> 00:47:47,520
Speaker 2: trying to, like, I had offered to, we were going

780
00:47:47,560 --> 00:47:50,420
Speaker 2: to try to, as a neighborhood, as a cul-de-sac, like,

781
00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:54,120
Speaker 2: all do a combined meal. And so I had all

782
00:47:54,180 --> 00:47:58,100
Speaker 2: this food, and I was going to make a big

783
00:47:58,580 --> 00:48:02,430
Speaker 2: curry outside on this, like, gas stove.

784
00:48:03,110 --> 00:48:03,230
Speaker 1: And.

785
00:48:03,580 --> 00:48:04,980
Speaker 2: I was trying to get it to work and we're

786
00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:07,360
Speaker 2: missing parts. I kept sending Lindsay to the store to

787
00:48:07,400 --> 00:48:10,259
Speaker 2: try to find a part, you know, and it was like,

788
00:48:10,320 --> 00:48:12,120
Speaker 2: it was getting so dark. It was so cold and

789
00:48:12,180 --> 00:48:15,150
Speaker 2: everyone's like, we're so hungry. And I'm just like, you know,

790
00:48:15,250 --> 00:48:16,989
Speaker 2: taking shots. I'm at the point where I'm like, I

791
00:48:16,989 --> 00:48:18,910
Speaker 2: don't even know how many I've had, you know, just

792
00:48:18,950 --> 00:48:21,530
Speaker 2: walk over and just drink straight out of the bottle. Yeah.

793
00:48:21,730 --> 00:48:26,299
Speaker 2: And I had sent Lindsay out for something and he

794
00:48:26,360 --> 00:48:31,140
Speaker 2: comes home and I remember him coming being like, Tasha,

795
00:48:31,200 --> 00:48:35,259
Speaker 2: what is going on? And I'm like, what? And he's like, like,

796
00:48:35,300 --> 00:48:38,819
Speaker 2: I come home and like the doors. He's like, are

797
00:48:39,219 --> 00:48:42,770
Speaker 2: the doors wide open to our house? It's freezing outside. And,

798
00:48:43,850 --> 00:48:46,730
Speaker 2: you know, our youngest daughter is like naked in a

799
00:48:46,790 --> 00:48:50,370
Speaker 2: diaper walking around on the street in the cul-de-sac, you know,

800
00:48:50,510 --> 00:48:52,810
Speaker 2: just while I'm in the house and the kids are

801
00:48:52,830 --> 00:48:58,530
Speaker 2: just wandering around. He was just like, he's like, what

802
00:48:58,590 --> 00:49:01,490
Speaker 2: on earth happened? Like, he's like, what could have happened

803
00:49:01,530 --> 00:49:05,730
Speaker 2: to her while I was gone? You know? And, um,

804
00:49:07,330 --> 00:49:10,129
Speaker 2: I was just so like, I was just so angry

805
00:49:10,130 --> 00:49:13,819
Speaker 2: with myself, you know, just like, I can't believe I

806
00:49:13,820 --> 00:49:15,989
Speaker 2: let let it get to like my kids actually being

807
00:49:16,010 --> 00:49:21,609
Speaker 2: in danger. Um, and, and it was like freezing, you know,

808
00:49:21,670 --> 00:49:26,510
Speaker 2: frost outside cold and my baby's walking around, you know, and, um,

809
00:49:28,070 --> 00:49:32,239
Speaker 2: definitely like my lowest point as a, as a parent. Um,

810
00:49:33,780 --> 00:49:36,980
Speaker 2: and had this talk with Lindsay and I was like,

811
00:49:37,180 --> 00:49:39,140
Speaker 2: I don't know what the heck has happened. Like, I'm

812
00:49:39,180 --> 00:49:44,680
Speaker 2: just like, Like, I just, there's no middle point here.

813
00:49:44,739 --> 00:49:46,299
Speaker 2: Cause there've been times where I tried to cut back

814
00:49:46,380 --> 00:49:48,980
Speaker 2: and I was just like, there's no middle point here.

815
00:49:49,020 --> 00:49:53,169
Speaker 2: The second I've had any alcohol, I'm having more. And,

816
00:49:54,250 --> 00:49:57,910
Speaker 2: and I was like, I just have to be done.

817
00:49:57,930 --> 00:50:00,670
Speaker 2: And he's like, I mean, I'd like that. He's like, well,

818
00:50:00,710 --> 00:50:03,189
Speaker 2: what about when your next blockage comes along and you're

819
00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:06,239
Speaker 2: like freaking out? And I'm like, well, we go to

820
00:50:06,280 --> 00:50:09,310
Speaker 2: the ER. And I had to be more responsible about

821
00:50:09,410 --> 00:50:11,969
Speaker 2: not doing things that are, you know, eating unsafe things.

822
00:50:12,950 --> 00:50:17,710
Speaker 2: And it was like, together we like, we made a

823
00:50:17,750 --> 00:50:20,590
Speaker 2: decision and then he, and then he like kind of

824
00:50:20,610 --> 00:50:23,330
Speaker 2: helped me go a bit deeper and was like, he

825
00:50:23,370 --> 00:50:25,650
Speaker 2: was like, you know, early on with all this stuff,

826
00:50:25,690 --> 00:50:28,330
Speaker 2: he's like, you were in such a special place with God.

827
00:50:28,750 --> 00:50:33,730
Speaker 2: Like it was at the point he's like, where you

828
00:50:33,750 --> 00:50:36,710
Speaker 2: were like a really special person to be around because

829
00:50:36,730 --> 00:50:40,060
Speaker 2: you were like, going through this really intense suffering he's

830
00:50:40,080 --> 00:50:43,800
Speaker 2: like but you just like had this like brightness about

831
00:50:43,840 --> 00:50:46,900
Speaker 2: you like you just were so content in the lord

832
00:50:48,020 --> 00:50:54,230
Speaker 2: and he's like how can you how can you get

833
00:50:54,770 --> 00:50:58,950
Speaker 2: back to there you know where you're just okay with

834
00:50:59,010 --> 00:51:02,610
Speaker 2: who you are and where you're at because you're actually

835
00:51:02,650 --> 00:51:06,170
Speaker 2: going to jesus and he wasn't like pressuring me to

836
00:51:06,210 --> 00:51:09,489
Speaker 2: just be better or anything But he said this thing,

837
00:51:09,530 --> 00:51:14,960
Speaker 2: which was referencing my... Because when we talk through everything,

838
00:51:14,980 --> 00:51:17,279
Speaker 2: what's going on with my heart, it all goes back

839
00:51:17,340 --> 00:51:22,120
Speaker 2: to this grief that I was going through with losing food.

840
00:51:23,000 --> 00:51:26,810
Speaker 2: And he said this thing to me that was like...

841
00:51:28,950 --> 00:51:29,650
Speaker 2: He said, what if.

842
00:51:31,750 --> 00:51:33,669
Speaker 2: He's like, I know this all feels like the worst

843
00:51:33,690 --> 00:51:36,109
Speaker 2: thing that could ever happen to you. He's like, but

844
00:51:36,130 --> 00:51:40,390
Speaker 2: what if this was like the best most special thing

845
00:51:40,450 --> 00:51:47,489
Speaker 2: about you and you actually just you kind of go

846
00:51:47,530 --> 00:51:50,110
Speaker 2: to god and ask ask for like the gift of

847
00:51:50,180 --> 00:51:53,080
Speaker 2: this like what is it that you get that no

848
00:51:53,120 --> 00:51:56,859
Speaker 2: one else gets because you're going through this you know

849
00:51:58,200 --> 00:52:04,529
Speaker 2: and it was just like it was just exactly what

850
00:52:04,570 --> 00:52:09,919
Speaker 2: my heart needed to hear and And it was like,

851
00:52:10,340 --> 00:52:14,220
Speaker 2: you know, it wasn't perfect after that, but my heart changed.

852
00:52:15,060 --> 00:52:20,609
Speaker 2: And I just, we actually, this was when we came

853
00:52:20,650 --> 00:52:23,169
Speaker 2: up with this idea for the book that I wrote,

854
00:52:23,230 --> 00:52:27,589
Speaker 2: because we talked about fasting and he was like, when

855
00:52:27,630 --> 00:52:30,720
Speaker 2: you were focusing on fasting and the beauty that comes

856
00:52:31,000 --> 00:52:35,940
Speaker 2: from experiencing your lack and letting Jesus fill it, he's like,

857
00:52:36,020 --> 00:52:39,109
Speaker 2: it was like, it didn't matter what happened. He's like,

858
00:52:39,150 --> 00:52:46,569
Speaker 2: you were just, you were fulfilled and you were at peace. And,

859
00:52:47,610 --> 00:52:51,049
Speaker 2: and so we talked about like, you know, what I

860
00:52:51,090 --> 00:52:56,819
Speaker 2: had was this big fasting event, you know? Um, and

861
00:52:56,860 --> 00:52:58,460
Speaker 2: it was like, okay, I got to fast during this

862
00:52:58,500 --> 00:53:01,779
Speaker 2: time because I'm starving. He's like, but now it's just

863
00:53:01,840 --> 00:53:05,570
Speaker 2: like normal life. And so we talked about this idea

864
00:53:05,610 --> 00:53:08,710
Speaker 2: of a fasting mindset and that it's like a daily

865
00:53:08,810 --> 00:53:12,589
Speaker 2: choice that every day you say, I'm going to let

866
00:53:12,670 --> 00:53:17,050
Speaker 2: myself experience some lack today because I believe that Jesus

867
00:53:17,210 --> 00:53:21,239
Speaker 2: is enough. And when I go into my life and,

868
00:53:21,360 --> 00:53:25,160
Speaker 2: you know, when I feel the temptation to drink and

869
00:53:25,180 --> 00:53:30,840
Speaker 2: I stop and I say, this is a fast, it

870
00:53:30,960 --> 00:53:35,379
Speaker 2: like suddenly shifts my heart To be like, oh, this

871
00:53:35,430 --> 00:53:39,220
Speaker 2: is actually a gift that I'm giving the Lord. By

872
00:53:39,760 --> 00:53:43,779
Speaker 2: choosing not to drink right now, I'm suddenly fasting. And

873
00:53:43,860 --> 00:53:48,760
Speaker 2: it actually was like, you know, the verse about Jesus

874
00:53:48,820 --> 00:53:52,640
Speaker 2: saying that he will not drink the fruit of the

875
00:53:52,680 --> 00:53:56,560
Speaker 2: vine until he's reunited with us. And that Jesus is

876
00:53:56,719 --> 00:54:03,509
Speaker 2: actually fasting alcohol until he's with us. It was just like, it,

877
00:54:03,830 --> 00:54:06,710
Speaker 2: it suddenly meant, and now actually the only alcohol I

878
00:54:06,750 --> 00:54:13,840
Speaker 2: have is, um, communion, which, um, ended up being like,

879
00:54:14,530 --> 00:54:17,640
Speaker 2: kind of like this big anchor for me, um, through

880
00:54:17,660 --> 00:54:20,759
Speaker 2: this time, this idea that Jesus body and bread and

881
00:54:20,860 --> 00:54:26,060
Speaker 2: his word is enough. Um, and, and it's like having

882
00:54:26,080 --> 00:54:30,720
Speaker 2: this mindset that, um, what I eat, you know, whatever,

883
00:54:31,160 --> 00:54:33,489
Speaker 2: whatever I eat, I'm able to eat or drink. if

884
00:54:33,550 --> 00:54:37,330
Speaker 2: I consider it like communion, like I'm eating from, from Jesus,

885
00:54:38,530 --> 00:54:42,509
Speaker 2: it changes like kind of how I interact with food

886
00:54:42,550 --> 00:54:48,109
Speaker 2: and drink. Um, and so it's like, like I said,

887
00:54:48,150 --> 00:54:50,450
Speaker 2: like this, it's not like I've arrived or anything, but

888
00:54:50,570 --> 00:54:54,160
Speaker 2: what's crazy is, and I didn't think this was going

889
00:54:54,480 --> 00:54:57,359
Speaker 2: to happen, but I'm at a point, I'm not going

890
00:54:57,380 --> 00:54:59,160
Speaker 2: to say I've arrived, but I'm at a point where

891
00:54:59,200 --> 00:55:04,609
Speaker 2: I do not miss alcohol. Um, but it, I don't

892
00:55:04,650 --> 00:55:06,850
Speaker 2: know that I'm going to stay there. And it took

893
00:55:06,910 --> 00:55:10,200
Speaker 2: a while. And, you know, there were times where Lindsay

894
00:55:10,239 --> 00:55:13,400
Speaker 2: might've left the alcohol cupboard unlocked and I'd go and

895
00:55:13,460 --> 00:55:18,680
Speaker 2: just like take a quick drink and then confess, you know? Um,

896
00:55:19,000 --> 00:55:21,239
Speaker 2: but we just were like, as long as we are

897
00:55:21,620 --> 00:55:32,980
Speaker 2: confessing and repenting, um, we call this holiness, you know? Um, and, uh, Yeah.

898
00:55:34,420 --> 00:55:37,319
Speaker 1: So first of all, thank you for sharing that. Like,

899
00:55:37,560 --> 00:55:41,859
Speaker 1: you know, I got emotional when I, yeah. When you

900
00:55:41,900 --> 00:55:45,710
Speaker 1: talked about the words that your husband said there, just

901
00:55:45,770 --> 00:55:50,469
Speaker 1: about like what, I mean, in several ways, it was

902
00:55:50,510 --> 00:55:55,870
Speaker 1: just so beautiful. When you talk about that time, right. Where,

903
00:55:55,910 --> 00:55:58,569
Speaker 1: and you talk about kind of that, that moment, you know,

904
00:55:58,590 --> 00:56:00,840
Speaker 1: where he comes home and you like, how long was

905
00:56:00,880 --> 00:56:03,469
Speaker 1: that going? Like, How long was that going on? How

906
00:56:03,610 --> 00:56:06,969
Speaker 1: long were you? Was that another month? Was that six months?

907
00:56:06,989 --> 00:56:08,840
Speaker 1: Was that a year where you were kind of turning

908
00:56:08,880 --> 00:56:11,520
Speaker 1: to alcohol like that? Or what was that? What did

909
00:56:11,540 --> 00:56:12,060
Speaker 1: that look like?

910
00:56:12,080 --> 00:56:20,739
Speaker 2: I would say. I would say it was about six

911
00:56:20,800 --> 00:56:25,520
Speaker 2: months to a year of really just depending on alcohol.

912
00:56:26,219 --> 00:56:27,500
Speaker 2: Mm hmm. Yeah.

913
00:56:29,070 --> 00:56:33,360
Speaker 1: Was there anyone else in your life that was noticing

914
00:56:33,520 --> 00:56:38,100
Speaker 1: it or had you kind of done the quote unquote

915
00:56:38,160 --> 00:56:39,480
Speaker 1: good job of hiding it?

916
00:56:42,760 --> 00:56:44,670
Speaker 2: I did a pretty good job of hiding it. Definitely.

917
00:56:44,710 --> 00:56:50,210
Speaker 2: I think my family noticed it because I tend to

918
00:56:50,250 --> 00:56:53,810
Speaker 2: like my dad is someone I just have fun drinking with,

919
00:56:54,050 --> 00:56:57,219
Speaker 2: you know? And so, um, when I'd be around the family,

920
00:56:57,280 --> 00:57:00,560
Speaker 2: I'd be like, dad, let's like, let's like open a

921
00:57:00,580 --> 00:57:03,620
Speaker 2: bottle of wine or something, you know? And it was

922
00:57:03,660 --> 00:57:06,440
Speaker 2: hard for my mom because, um, we both would just

923
00:57:06,840 --> 00:57:13,260
Speaker 2: be different people when we'd be drinking. And, um, with

924
00:57:13,300 --> 00:57:16,110
Speaker 2: my kids, it was like, they just didn't have a

925
00:57:16,170 --> 00:57:20,610
Speaker 2: concept for that. Um, like they was like, I was

926
00:57:20,630 --> 00:57:24,210
Speaker 2: just a big mom. but, um, I'd like would gently

927
00:57:24,490 --> 00:57:28,709
Speaker 2: explain things to them like at different stages, but just be,

928
00:57:30,270 --> 00:57:32,689
Speaker 2: we would, we, but we'd be honest with them about

929
00:57:32,830 --> 00:57:39,360
Speaker 2: alcohol and how, um, what it does and, um, how

930
00:57:39,580 --> 00:57:43,560
Speaker 2: I wish that I can drink it sometimes, but, um,

931
00:57:44,060 --> 00:57:47,110
Speaker 2: but I'm trying not to, you know, and comparing it

932
00:57:47,120 --> 00:57:51,000
Speaker 2: to communion and how we want to treat this as, um,

933
00:57:51,730 --> 00:57:54,400
Speaker 2: as something special and not turn it into something that's

934
00:57:54,600 --> 00:57:59,220
Speaker 2: just for us and something that doesn't honor the Lord. Um,

935
00:57:59,600 --> 00:58:02,600
Speaker 2: but we kind of like, you know, depending on their

936
00:58:02,740 --> 00:58:06,010
Speaker 2: age and maturity, we have different kinds of conversations, but, um,

937
00:58:06,170 --> 00:58:09,650
Speaker 2: I actually just had a conversation about it when about

938
00:58:09,670 --> 00:58:12,690
Speaker 2: a week ago when we booked this interview and I

939
00:58:12,710 --> 00:58:14,490
Speaker 2: was telling my, talking to my 13 year old and

940
00:58:14,510 --> 00:58:18,560
Speaker 2: I said, Oh, I'm on this going to be on this, uh, podcast,

941
00:58:18,920 --> 00:58:23,080
Speaker 2: you know, called confessions of christian alcoholic and and i

942
00:58:23,120 --> 00:58:26,700
Speaker 2: just like in depth more in depth told her about

943
00:58:26,760 --> 00:58:31,340
Speaker 2: my struggle with alcohol and it's like she just like

944
00:58:31,760 --> 00:58:34,160
Speaker 2: she's such a like sponge and wants to ask all

945
00:58:34,220 --> 00:58:38,500
Speaker 2: these questions and stuff but it was just really fruitful

946
00:58:38,560 --> 00:58:40,700
Speaker 2: time but um for the most part it was a

947
00:58:40,740 --> 00:58:46,320
Speaker 2: pretty private pretty private struggle i have i had a

948
00:58:46,660 --> 00:58:54,900
Speaker 2: i have a who we all kind of like, we

949
00:58:54,920 --> 00:58:58,520
Speaker 2: have this prayer group and we sharpen each other, challenge

950
00:58:58,540 --> 00:59:03,320
Speaker 2: each other. We pray for each other every week. And I,

951
00:59:03,990 --> 00:59:07,910
Speaker 2: I opened up to them about this and shared my

952
00:59:07,970 --> 00:59:11,000
Speaker 2: struggle and what I was trying to do and, they

953
00:59:11,020 --> 00:59:16,960
Speaker 2: were really supportive. Yeah.

954
00:59:18,120 --> 00:59:19,790
Speaker 1: When did you open up to them about it?

955
00:59:22,900 --> 00:59:28,370
Speaker 2: I think it was after that event where I realized

956
00:59:28,410 --> 00:59:31,850
Speaker 2: I had taken it too far. And I told them

957
00:59:31,910 --> 00:59:36,030
Speaker 2: about it, told them like that I'd been, that I've

958
00:59:36,050 --> 00:59:39,530
Speaker 2: just been abusing, you know, just abusing it and using

959
00:59:39,590 --> 00:59:48,040
Speaker 2: it as a, as a replacement for Jesus, you know? Yeah.

960
00:59:48,140 --> 00:59:49,760
Speaker 1: What was, what was their reaction?

961
00:59:52,260 --> 00:59:57,040
Speaker 2: They're very understanding, extremely understanding. And, you know, they're always

962
00:59:57,080 --> 01:00:00,720
Speaker 2: just like, gosh, I just can't imagine going through what

963
01:00:00,760 --> 01:00:03,120
Speaker 2: you're going through. And like, it makes sense that you would,

964
01:00:03,760 --> 01:00:07,919
Speaker 2: that you would want comfort, you know, and that you'd

965
01:00:07,960 --> 01:00:11,580
Speaker 2: want something like this, but it's also, yeah, we agree.

966
01:00:11,620 --> 01:00:14,800
Speaker 2: It's just so deadly and it's doesn't bring you life.

967
01:00:14,880 --> 01:00:18,140
Speaker 2: It brings death. And, um, so they were just very

968
01:00:18,180 --> 01:00:20,590
Speaker 2: supportive and they did things. It was so sweet. Like they'd,

969
01:00:21,460 --> 01:00:26,560
Speaker 2: they'd find all these like cool, um, mocktail ingredients and

970
01:00:26,580 --> 01:00:28,860
Speaker 2: bring them to me and be like, you know, making this,

971
01:00:28,960 --> 01:00:33,140
Speaker 2: like they'd make me these fancy mocktails and like, and

972
01:00:33,240 --> 01:00:38,230
Speaker 2: they wouldn't like one of them drinks. And so she

973
01:00:38,250 --> 01:00:41,830
Speaker 2: just wouldn't drink around me or, or ask like, we

974
01:00:41,850 --> 01:00:43,410
Speaker 2: went out today, we're like, are you okay? Create her

975
01:00:43,430 --> 01:00:48,740
Speaker 2: a glass of wine, you know? So, um, but yeah, very,

976
01:00:48,920 --> 01:00:50,520
Speaker 2: very supportive and understandings.

977
01:00:52,050 --> 01:00:56,110
Speaker 1: So, you know, you've talked about and been honest about,

978
01:00:56,270 --> 01:00:59,280
Speaker 1: you know, like, hey, there was some, you know, slip

979
01:00:59,340 --> 01:01:01,720
Speaker 1: ups or whatever you want to call them. And you

980
01:01:01,760 --> 01:01:05,120
Speaker 1: talk about that, that that community is the only alcohol

981
01:01:05,280 --> 01:01:10,420
Speaker 1: you drink now. And so where do you feel like

982
01:01:10,460 --> 01:01:16,350
Speaker 1: you are now in the sense of like, how have you.

983
01:01:17,910 --> 01:01:20,630
Speaker 1: What is that kind of deeper heart issue that you

984
01:01:20,670 --> 01:01:23,170
Speaker 1: feel like you've rooted out or that you've got to

985
01:01:24,150 --> 01:01:30,150
Speaker 1: that you've kind of addressed? And where do you, in

986
01:01:30,310 --> 01:01:33,910
Speaker 1: a sense, have to be careful to where that doesn't

987
01:01:34,410 --> 01:01:36,910
Speaker 1: pop up in other ways? We'll be right back after this.

988
01:01:40,050 --> 01:01:44,210
Speaker 2: That's a great question. I honestly think that the number

989
01:01:44,410 --> 01:01:50,939
Speaker 2: one change that that really needed to happen and really

990
01:01:51,000 --> 01:01:56,390
Speaker 2: helped me was that deep down in a very true sense,

991
01:01:57,200 --> 01:02:02,890
Speaker 2: I stopped believing the lie that alcohol makes me feel better. Um,

992
01:02:04,070 --> 01:02:09,710
Speaker 2: because that, like, I truly believed alcohol was making me

993
01:02:09,750 --> 01:02:13,290
Speaker 2: feel better and that if I had this, things would

994
01:02:13,330 --> 01:02:16,680
Speaker 2: go better for me. And I would feel better. I

995
01:02:16,820 --> 01:02:23,260
Speaker 2: would feel happier. It would be fun. But alcohol, especially

996
01:02:23,320 --> 01:02:26,720
Speaker 2: as I'm getting into my later 30s, it's not fun.

997
01:02:26,740 --> 01:02:31,729
Speaker 2: I get really bad headaches. Even right after my first drink,

998
01:02:31,790 --> 01:02:33,630
Speaker 2: I just have this terrible headache. And I'm like, why

999
01:02:33,670 --> 01:02:35,790
Speaker 2: am I doing this? And then it would be like,

1000
01:02:35,810 --> 01:02:43,250
Speaker 2: I ended up getting another headache. feeding tube went directly

1001
01:02:43,270 --> 01:02:45,630
Speaker 2: into my small intestine I had that for a year

1002
01:02:46,370 --> 01:02:48,910
Speaker 2: also very painful but I decided to go through it

1003
01:02:49,770 --> 01:02:53,540
Speaker 2: and I just got it out and so when I

1004
01:02:53,580 --> 01:02:57,360
Speaker 2: had this J2 and I was on pain meds I

1005
01:02:57,440 --> 01:03:03,240
Speaker 2: couldn't really drink and then when I you know wasn't

1006
01:03:03,360 --> 01:03:09,170
Speaker 2: on pain meds even like it just didn't have the

1007
01:03:09,290 --> 01:03:13,730
Speaker 2: same it just didn't feel the same anymore, which honestly

1008
01:03:13,790 --> 01:03:15,960
Speaker 2: I'm like, that was a gift from God, but I

1009
01:03:16,000 --> 01:03:19,380
Speaker 2: would have to have more alcohol to feel anything. Cause

1010
01:03:19,400 --> 01:03:21,980
Speaker 2: there was a couple of times where, you know, Lindsay,

1011
01:03:22,560 --> 01:03:24,600
Speaker 2: you know, we'd agree like it's our anniversary. I think

1012
01:03:24,640 --> 01:03:27,840
Speaker 2: I can have a glass of champagne and I would

1013
01:03:27,880 --> 01:03:32,420
Speaker 2: just feel so sick after it. Um, but, but it

1014
01:03:32,480 --> 01:03:35,110
Speaker 2: wasn't just that it was like the reality that every

1015
01:03:35,140 --> 01:03:37,290
Speaker 2: time I drank and this went deep for me is

1016
01:03:37,330 --> 01:03:40,680
Speaker 2: when Lindsay told me, he's like, when you drink, I

1017
01:03:40,740 --> 01:03:44,120
Speaker 2: feel left behind and lonely because I don't have my

1018
01:03:44,180 --> 01:03:47,980
Speaker 2: wife there anymore. And you're just gone. And it really

1019
01:03:48,020 --> 01:03:51,660
Speaker 2: just finally got to me. I'm saying that. And I

1020
01:03:51,720 --> 01:03:55,740
Speaker 2: just was like, man, so when I drink, I'm annoying

1021
01:03:55,780 --> 01:04:00,460
Speaker 2: the people around me. My husband feels abandoned. And the

1022
01:04:00,520 --> 01:04:02,100
Speaker 2: next day I feel like crap and I have all

1023
01:04:02,120 --> 01:04:06,380
Speaker 2: this guilt. And I got to this point where I just,

1024
01:04:07,770 --> 01:04:13,830
Speaker 2: would so rather not go through that. But really just

1025
01:04:13,890 --> 01:04:16,360
Speaker 2: like seeing it as a lie that alcohol is doing

1026
01:04:16,420 --> 01:04:20,220
Speaker 2: anything for me. And that when I go down that road,

1027
01:04:20,820 --> 01:04:23,600
Speaker 2: when I start the process of having alcohol and going

1028
01:04:23,640 --> 01:04:26,800
Speaker 2: through it, I just have to deal with all this

1029
01:04:26,880 --> 01:04:34,410
Speaker 2: misery afterwards. And, and when I, and there was, there

1030
01:04:34,430 --> 01:04:36,230
Speaker 2: would just be, you know, over and over times where

1031
01:04:36,270 --> 01:04:38,470
Speaker 2: I'd feel the temptation to drink you know, we had,

1032
01:04:39,050 --> 01:04:41,410
Speaker 2: I had chosen not to. So I would push through

1033
01:04:41,430 --> 01:04:44,650
Speaker 2: and have like order a mocktail or something, have a

1034
01:04:44,690 --> 01:04:47,640
Speaker 2: great time and then think to myself, I'm so glad

1035
01:04:47,680 --> 01:04:51,910
Speaker 2: I didn't drink. You know, there was this, like I

1036
01:04:51,930 --> 01:04:55,000
Speaker 2: have this Christmas kind of tradition where the first day

1037
01:04:55,020 --> 01:04:57,800
Speaker 2: of December, our whole family decorates the house and we

1038
01:04:58,460 --> 01:05:02,840
Speaker 2: turn on Christmas Sia. And I'm just like, it is

1039
01:05:02,900 --> 01:05:05,540
Speaker 2: like my happiest place ever. And I would make myself

1040
01:05:05,620 --> 01:05:11,010
Speaker 2: a rusty nail, And I would just be decorating and

1041
01:05:11,050 --> 01:05:13,220
Speaker 2: drinking and it was just a happy place for me.

1042
01:05:13,980 --> 01:05:18,540
Speaker 2: And so my first Christmas came after not drinking and

1043
01:05:18,600 --> 01:05:21,860
Speaker 2: I was decorating and I just was feeling so depressed

1044
01:05:21,880 --> 01:05:24,760
Speaker 2: because I was like, I feel like this core part

1045
01:05:24,800 --> 01:05:27,930
Speaker 2: of my happiness is missing.

1046
01:05:27,950 --> 01:05:28,020
Speaker 1: Yes.

1047
01:05:31,720 --> 01:05:33,919
Speaker 2: And so I talked to Lindsay and I was like,

1048
01:05:34,260 --> 01:05:36,860
Speaker 2: I so want to drink right now. And I just

1049
01:05:36,900 --> 01:05:41,020
Speaker 2: feel really sad that I don't have this. And, and

1050
01:05:41,080 --> 01:05:46,080
Speaker 2: he was like, he's like, well, think about this. He's like, you're,

1051
01:05:46,380 --> 01:05:48,620
Speaker 2: you don't know what it's like to finish this day

1052
01:05:48,880 --> 01:05:53,490
Speaker 2: without drinking and to not be in another place by the,

1053
01:05:53,900 --> 01:05:57,060
Speaker 2: by the time the house is decorated and actually just

1054
01:05:57,440 --> 01:06:00,419
Speaker 2: being with me. Just, just think like you get me

1055
01:06:00,600 --> 01:06:05,130
Speaker 2: this Christmas. And so I like perked up and made

1056
01:06:05,170 --> 01:06:14,660
Speaker 2: myself a, you know, a, uh, just ginger beer. And, um, when,

1057
01:06:14,980 --> 01:06:18,900
Speaker 2: you know, went through the day and usually when I'm

1058
01:06:18,940 --> 01:06:21,700
Speaker 2: like drinking, you know, throughout the afternoon, I like to

1059
01:06:21,740 --> 01:06:24,520
Speaker 2: have this big crash and I'm super tired and grumpy.

1060
01:06:26,040 --> 01:06:28,640
Speaker 2: And instead I just was like feeling really happy and

1061
01:06:28,660 --> 01:06:33,530
Speaker 2: I was really present. And I sat down with, um, this, um,

1062
01:06:33,690 --> 01:06:36,530
Speaker 2: my cousin who's, uh, she's college age and we kind

1063
01:06:36,570 --> 01:06:39,680
Speaker 2: of took her in and been discipling her. And, um,

1064
01:06:40,220 --> 01:06:44,100
Speaker 2: she also like struggled, her, her mom was an alcoholic.

1065
01:06:44,140 --> 01:06:47,640
Speaker 2: And so she was just taught to drink at a really,

1066
01:06:47,900 --> 01:06:52,240
Speaker 2: really young age. And so she also struggling at Christmas time.

1067
01:06:52,320 --> 01:06:56,210
Speaker 2: And I would actually like bringing her in. It was like,

1068
01:06:56,630 --> 01:06:58,950
Speaker 2: I was really glad that I didn't drink anymore. Um,

1069
01:06:59,690 --> 01:07:02,010
Speaker 2: And so sitting with her and we just like have

1070
01:07:02,030 --> 01:07:04,740
Speaker 2: this like really beautiful talk. And then we made all

1071
01:07:04,760 --> 01:07:06,760
Speaker 2: these like paper snowflakes with the kids. We're all sitting

1072
01:07:06,780 --> 01:07:09,800
Speaker 2: around the table, just all talking. And, and Sophie and

1073
01:07:09,820 --> 01:07:12,800
Speaker 2: I were talking about like her name, Sophie, we're just

1074
01:07:12,840 --> 01:07:15,490
Speaker 2: talking about like how special it was to just be

1075
01:07:15,530 --> 01:07:19,010
Speaker 2: with each other and to not be distracted by just

1076
01:07:19,090 --> 01:07:22,270
Speaker 2: wanting to be drunk, you know? And, and we were like,

1077
01:07:22,310 --> 01:07:24,330
Speaker 2: we're going to look back on this day and say,

1078
01:07:24,350 --> 01:07:28,530
Speaker 2: that was just a really special day. And it just

1079
01:07:28,570 --> 01:07:31,540
Speaker 2: kind of like, it really clicked with me that I'm like, man,

1080
01:07:31,560 --> 01:07:35,200
Speaker 2: there's all these days where they ended with me being

1081
01:07:36,790 --> 01:07:40,130
Speaker 2: drunk enough that I don't really, I don't really have

1082
01:07:40,150 --> 01:07:44,510
Speaker 2: the greatest, like, like happy feeling when I look back

1083
01:07:44,590 --> 01:07:46,830
Speaker 2: on that memory or like, I don't really remember exactly

1084
01:07:46,870 --> 01:07:50,270
Speaker 2: how it ended, you know, but like just realizing that

1085
01:07:50,310 --> 01:07:57,350
Speaker 2: I could make memories, um, that would be lasting. It

1086
01:07:57,390 --> 01:08:01,439
Speaker 2: would bring lasting joy. And that I would get such

1087
01:08:01,480 --> 01:08:05,920
Speaker 2: a richer experience. It made me like, OK, so I'm

1088
01:08:05,960 --> 01:08:07,940
Speaker 2: not missing out because that's the big feeling is that

1089
01:08:07,960 --> 01:08:09,620
Speaker 2: I'm missing out on something. Right.

1090
01:08:10,940 --> 01:08:12,980
Speaker 1: And, you know, and I think that is such a

1091
01:08:13,040 --> 01:08:15,860
Speaker 1: great encouragement as we wrap up is like, you know,

1092
01:08:15,890 --> 01:08:18,189
Speaker 1: if you're listening to this, you know, and I and

1093
01:08:18,229 --> 01:08:20,370
Speaker 1: I kind of was like, yeah, yeah, because I I've

1094
01:08:20,410 --> 01:08:21,410
Speaker 1: had all those feelings.

1095
01:08:21,630 --> 01:08:21,790
Speaker 2: Right.

1096
01:08:21,810 --> 01:08:25,470
Speaker 1: Like, man, I feel like I'm missing out. Like, you know.

1097
01:08:26,500 --> 01:08:31,920
Speaker 1: football games and Christmas and whatever, not being able to

1098
01:08:31,960 --> 01:08:35,780
Speaker 1: do it without, I'm missing out. And there's, and, and

1099
01:08:35,840 --> 01:08:38,860
Speaker 1: I think it's hard to explain to someone who's in that,

1100
01:08:39,200 --> 01:08:43,240
Speaker 1: in that moment or in that mindset. But listen, like

1101
01:08:43,500 --> 01:08:50,189
Speaker 1: there is, you start creating different experiences and different memories.

1102
01:08:50,510 --> 01:08:50,750
Speaker 2: Right.

1103
01:08:51,070 --> 01:08:56,400
Speaker 1: And it's not like you are, you're, On the other

1104
01:08:56,520 --> 01:09:19,100
Speaker 1: side of that, I'm telling you, there is something... Is

1105
01:09:19,600 --> 01:09:21,660
Speaker 1: that it's, you know, that's good for you. That's better

1106
01:09:21,680 --> 01:09:24,700
Speaker 1: for you that it does all these things. Right. And listen,

1107
01:09:25,910 --> 01:09:30,450
Speaker 1: there are some temporary benefits and there is relief. And

1108
01:09:30,689 --> 01:09:35,229
Speaker 1: yet what it doesn't talk about, what it doesn't tell

1109
01:09:35,270 --> 01:09:36,490
Speaker 1: you is the tomorrow tax.

1110
01:09:36,870 --> 01:09:37,090
Speaker 2: Right.

1111
01:09:37,550 --> 01:09:41,920
Speaker 1: It doesn't tell you about all the things it takes away. So,

1112
01:09:41,979 --> 01:09:44,840
Speaker 1: I mean, I just thank you, Natasha. Thank you for

1113
01:09:45,100 --> 01:09:47,729
Speaker 1: your story. Thank you for opening up. Thank you for

1114
01:09:47,770 --> 01:09:52,490
Speaker 1: your vulnerability. Where are you at this point with your

1115
01:09:52,510 --> 01:09:58,889
Speaker 1: chronic health issues? What does that look like? And then

1116
01:10:00,150 --> 01:10:05,260
Speaker 1: where can people get the book and how exactly, like,

1117
01:10:05,979 --> 01:10:08,080
Speaker 1: how does the book tie all of this in together?

1118
01:10:08,100 --> 01:10:18,210
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, I'll kind of answer both questions together. So

1119
01:10:18,330 --> 01:10:21,850
Speaker 2: where I'm at right now is that I've got these

1120
01:10:22,790 --> 01:10:29,930
Speaker 2: kind of marriage of conditions that the flares come and

1121
01:10:29,970 --> 01:10:36,410
Speaker 2: go in terms of intensity, but there's a downward kind

1122
01:10:36,470 --> 01:10:42,900
Speaker 2: of degeneration of my body. So joints breaking down, um,

1123
01:10:44,180 --> 01:10:49,439
Speaker 2: GI motility is like slowly dying throughout my system. Um,

1124
01:10:50,430 --> 01:10:53,810
Speaker 2: as I said, you know, like my bladder stopped working

1125
01:10:53,890 --> 01:10:58,090
Speaker 2: and my small intestines now struggling. Um, I have a, my,

1126
01:10:58,210 --> 01:11:00,530
Speaker 2: my funniest symptom, if you want to know that my

1127
01:11:00,590 --> 01:11:03,700
Speaker 2: newest symptom with my neurological disease is that when I

1128
01:11:03,780 --> 01:11:06,860
Speaker 2: scratch my face, I get like a cold chill there.

1129
01:11:07,840 --> 01:11:09,720
Speaker 2: and it like just feels really nice. It feels like

1130
01:11:09,760 --> 01:11:12,040
Speaker 2: you put like tiger balm or peppermint on, you know,

1131
01:11:12,060 --> 01:11:14,840
Speaker 2: it's like, ah, you know, so it's like, you never,

1132
01:11:15,120 --> 01:11:19,290
Speaker 2: never know what's going to happen. But, um, yeah. But, uh,

1133
01:11:19,450 --> 01:11:22,410
Speaker 2: so there's kind of like this degeneration that we don't,

1134
01:11:23,550 --> 01:11:26,070
Speaker 2: we don't know how fast or like what's going to

1135
01:11:26,110 --> 01:11:29,810
Speaker 2: go next. But, um, but I also have time. I'm

1136
01:11:30,110 --> 01:11:33,500
Speaker 2: more stable than ever in terms of like managing the condition.

1137
01:11:33,520 --> 01:11:38,350
Speaker 2: I have to be okay with having just, very very

1138
01:11:38,410 --> 01:11:40,410
Speaker 2: minimal life which is hard for me i'm a huge

1139
01:11:41,250 --> 01:11:44,790
Speaker 2: extrovert event planner like i'm the person everyone in my

1140
01:11:44,830 --> 01:11:47,689
Speaker 2: family called me the one that makes everything happen it

1141
01:11:47,729 --> 01:11:51,049
Speaker 2: was like family events and birthday parties everything like stopped

1142
01:11:51,130 --> 01:11:58,170
Speaker 2: when i started going through this um and so I'm

1143
01:11:58,210 --> 01:12:01,059
Speaker 2: having to get used to a very, very minimal life

1144
01:12:02,260 --> 01:12:07,540
Speaker 2: where I give what energy I have to my, my

1145
01:12:07,620 --> 01:12:14,550
Speaker 2: family and the small number of like, like the kind

1146
01:12:14,560 --> 01:12:18,309
Speaker 2: of ministry opportunities that I want to invest in, you know,

1147
01:12:18,610 --> 01:12:23,110
Speaker 2: like discipling my cousin or helping out with the youth group,

1148
01:12:23,310 --> 01:12:25,650
Speaker 2: things like that. I try to try to do stuff,

1149
01:12:25,750 --> 01:12:32,570
Speaker 2: but it's a small life. And I deal with extreme,

1150
01:12:32,650 --> 01:12:39,560
Speaker 2: extreme pain that comes and goes, but it really prevents

1151
01:12:39,700 --> 01:12:48,930
Speaker 2: me from leaving the house most days. And I'm often

1152
01:12:48,979 --> 01:13:04,229
Speaker 2: on pain meds, depending on the flares. I... monoliquid diet still. Um, and, uh, yeah, just,

1153
01:13:04,950 --> 01:13:09,720
Speaker 2: just holding on to, holding on to the Lord each day.

1154
01:13:10,479 --> 01:13:14,479
Speaker 2: And so I would say that, like I said, with

1155
01:13:14,560 --> 01:13:18,849
Speaker 2: my book, it's, the book is a prayer that I

1156
01:13:18,900 --> 01:13:22,250
Speaker 2: need to pray every day where I'm coming to the

1157
01:13:22,310 --> 01:13:26,729
Speaker 2: Lord and choosing to whatever the, loss I experience, whatever

1158
01:13:26,830 --> 01:13:33,500
Speaker 2: pain I experience, whatever desires or needs go unmet, that

1159
01:13:33,740 --> 01:13:36,880
Speaker 2: he's not just enough, but he is in himself a

1160
01:13:36,960 --> 01:13:41,000
Speaker 2: feast that's overflowing and giving me so much more than

1161
01:13:41,060 --> 01:13:46,560
Speaker 2: I need that my cup can't contain it. And when

1162
01:13:46,689 --> 01:13:54,390
Speaker 2: I'm pressing into him, it is so incredibly beautiful and profound.

1163
01:13:55,330 --> 01:13:57,550
Speaker 2: And when I don't, it's all too much for me.

1164
01:13:59,010 --> 01:14:03,349
Speaker 2: And I despair from the pain or just crash and,

1165
01:14:04,380 --> 01:14:10,979
Speaker 2: you know, just do mind-numbing hobbies. Which at this point,

1166
01:14:11,020 --> 01:14:13,640
Speaker 2: I've cut out enough things that my mind-numbing hobbies are

1167
01:14:13,680 --> 01:14:18,700
Speaker 2: just like drawing art while listening to an audiobook. But

1168
01:14:20,470 --> 01:14:25,120
Speaker 2: it's like, yeah, it's... What? what I say in my

1169
01:14:25,180 --> 01:14:29,420
Speaker 2: book is that if I could, if I really boiled

1170
01:14:29,460 --> 01:14:31,780
Speaker 2: it down, I would, the very core, it would be

1171
01:14:31,800 --> 01:14:34,960
Speaker 2: that Jesus is enough. And that those words are like,

1172
01:14:35,300 --> 01:14:39,320
Speaker 2: we say them. Yes. But it's like, the truth is

1173
01:14:39,520 --> 01:14:43,760
Speaker 2: so big. You can't see. It's like the horizon where

1174
01:14:43,780 --> 01:14:48,120
Speaker 2: you can't see it all at once. It's just so big. Um,

1175
01:14:48,550 --> 01:14:51,990
Speaker 2: and that if we are living in a way where we,

1176
01:14:53,030 --> 01:14:56,850
Speaker 2: And no matter what kind of emptiness we're experiencing, we're

1177
01:14:56,890 --> 01:15:00,809
Speaker 2: going to Jesus for help. We're calling out to him.

1178
01:15:00,830 --> 01:15:05,170
Speaker 2: We're challenging him. Like, God, why is this day so hard?

1179
01:15:05,250 --> 01:15:08,600
Speaker 2: You need to be here. You said you'd be here.

1180
01:15:08,720 --> 01:15:11,519
Speaker 2: Whatever it looks like, just calling out to him and

1181
01:15:12,380 --> 01:15:15,820
Speaker 2: watching and waiting. But then also just receiving the gift

1182
01:15:15,860 --> 01:15:18,620
Speaker 2: that he does give rather than the gifts we expect.

1183
01:15:19,020 --> 01:15:22,660
Speaker 2: I feel like for my day to get better, blank

1184
01:15:22,700 --> 01:15:25,599
Speaker 2: needs to happen or my pain gets better or like,

1185
01:15:25,640 --> 01:15:28,120
Speaker 2: I just have enough energy to go make dinner. When

1186
01:15:28,180 --> 01:15:30,880
Speaker 2: instead the gift he has is that, you know, I

1187
01:15:30,920 --> 01:15:33,400
Speaker 2: wasn't able to make dinner, but Lindsay wanted me dinner.

1188
01:15:33,520 --> 01:15:35,690
Speaker 2: And then he came and we sat and had this

1189
01:15:35,740 --> 01:15:40,350
Speaker 2: like really awesome conversation or whatever. Um, like the gifts

1190
01:15:40,390 --> 01:15:44,269
Speaker 2: he does give aren't just enough, but they are like,

1191
01:15:47,530 --> 01:15:51,689
Speaker 2: it's like today is only, only happens once right now today.

1192
01:15:51,710 --> 01:15:59,690
Speaker 3: Um, There are these incredible, profound gifts that God has

1193
01:15:59,729 --> 01:16:01,830
Speaker 3: to give that are only for today.

1194
01:16:02,729 --> 01:16:04,530
Speaker 2: And if we're in a mindset of just trying to

1195
01:16:04,590 --> 01:16:09,269
Speaker 2: numb ourselves, we won't see them or appreciate them or

1196
01:16:09,900 --> 01:16:13,040
Speaker 2: grasp them in whole. Obviously, we still get so many

1197
01:16:13,060 --> 01:16:18,820
Speaker 2: of the gifts just automatically. But that by choosing to

1198
01:16:19,460 --> 01:16:22,850
Speaker 2: turn our eyes to him, and just look, just look

1199
01:16:22,890 --> 01:16:27,050
Speaker 2: at him, you know, like Peter walking on water. Um,

1200
01:16:27,430 --> 01:16:33,710
Speaker 2: just look at him. It'll be, it's so much better

1201
01:16:34,090 --> 01:16:39,680
Speaker 2: than trying to carry your heavy burdens yourself. Um, Yeah,

1202
01:16:39,840 --> 01:16:42,720
Speaker 2: I would say that's kind of the core of my book.

1203
01:16:43,380 --> 01:16:45,860
Speaker 2: And I think you can get it anywhere. Amazon.

1204
01:16:46,740 --> 01:16:48,320
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1205
01:16:49,000 --> 01:16:50,820
Speaker 2: Barnes & Noble. I don't know where people buy books

1206
01:16:50,860 --> 01:16:52,340
Speaker 2: these days other than Amazon.

1207
01:16:54,280 --> 01:16:55,820
Speaker 1: You can also go to Baker Books, right?

1208
01:16:56,560 --> 01:16:59,200
Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. Sorry, Baker.

1209
01:16:59,700 --> 01:17:03,900
Speaker 1: Well, I know that because I think you can get

1210
01:17:03,920 --> 01:17:06,479
Speaker 1: it for 30% off because my book is still 30%

1211
01:17:06,479 --> 01:17:07,340
Speaker 1: off at Baker Books.

1212
01:17:07,380 --> 01:17:07,560
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1213
01:17:09,290 --> 01:17:14,170
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. Natasha, I think this is important on so

1214
01:17:14,189 --> 01:17:18,110
Speaker 1: many levels. I think especially because those of us who

1215
01:17:18,130 --> 01:17:22,170
Speaker 1: struggle with alcohol or medicating or any sort of addictive behavior,

1216
01:17:22,689 --> 01:17:24,570
Speaker 1: we justify it in so many ways. And one of

1217
01:17:24,590 --> 01:17:27,650
Speaker 1: the ways we justify it is, well, I'm going through X.

1218
01:17:28,410 --> 01:17:31,410
Speaker 1: And I would say that if Natasha, who literally still

1219
01:17:31,430 --> 01:17:36,650
Speaker 1: cannot eat solid food, can look at this and say

1220
01:17:36,680 --> 01:17:40,400
Speaker 1: Jesus is enough, like, Friend, like what you're going through

1221
01:17:40,439 --> 01:17:44,340
Speaker 1: right now, I'm not minimizing it, but I'm just saying

1222
01:17:44,380 --> 01:17:48,230
Speaker 1: that like it can be true for you too, right?

1223
01:17:48,710 --> 01:17:53,570
Speaker 1: The hard job, the hard relationship to whatever, right? And so, Natasha,

1224
01:17:53,710 --> 01:17:56,990
Speaker 1: thank you. Thank you so, so much. The book is

1225
01:17:57,030 --> 01:18:00,309
Speaker 1: called Lacking Nothing, The Year I Lost My Ability to

1226
01:18:00,410 --> 01:18:05,439
Speaker 1: Eat and Found Satisfaction in Christ. Please go pick it up.

1227
01:18:05,740 --> 01:18:07,439
Speaker 1: I really appreciate it, Natasha. Thanks for joining.

1228
01:18:08,670 --> 01:18:09,310
Speaker 2: Thank you so much.

1229
01:18:12,910 --> 01:18:18,450
Speaker 1: I just keep thinking about that story of her husband

1230
01:18:18,490 --> 01:18:22,500
Speaker 1: coming home and being like, hey, what is going on here?

1231
01:18:22,600 --> 01:18:28,960
Speaker 1: The kids are outside. What? And I just think to

1232
01:18:29,060 --> 01:18:32,360
Speaker 1: some who maybe don't struggle with an addiction, and I

1233
01:18:32,400 --> 01:18:34,350
Speaker 1: know we have family members and loved ones that listen

1234
01:18:34,950 --> 01:18:38,439
Speaker 1: to these episodes, I think that is It can be

1235
01:18:38,479 --> 01:18:43,040
Speaker 1: very incomprehensible. And yet for those of us who have struggled,

1236
01:18:44,810 --> 01:18:49,849
Speaker 1: it is the most or perhaps the most identifiable.

1237
01:18:50,780 --> 01:18:50,979
Speaker 2: Thing.

1238
01:18:51,840 --> 01:18:54,860
Speaker 1: What I mean by that is, in one sense, we've

1239
01:18:54,880 --> 01:18:58,790
Speaker 1: all left our kids out in the cold, even if

1240
01:18:58,830 --> 01:19:00,930
Speaker 1: we haven't specifically left our kids out in the cold.

1241
01:19:02,229 --> 01:19:08,250
Speaker 1: We have all elevated alcohol, elevated whatever it is, whatever substance, approval,

1242
01:19:08,350 --> 01:19:10,689
Speaker 1: people pleasing, whatever. We have all elevated it to the

1243
01:19:10,770 --> 01:19:14,610
Speaker 1: point where we will do things we never thought we

1244
01:19:14,650 --> 01:19:18,139
Speaker 1: would do. We will place it above things we never

1245
01:19:18,189 --> 01:19:23,260
Speaker 1: thought we would. One of my favorite quitlet books, as

1246
01:19:23,300 --> 01:19:27,419
Speaker 1: they call it, and really a pioneer in the genre

1247
01:19:27,500 --> 01:19:31,500
Speaker 1: of Christian quitlet. It's called Sober Mercies by Heather Kopp.

1248
01:19:31,520 --> 01:19:35,100
Speaker 1: And I've gotten to know Heather over the years. And

1249
01:19:35,240 --> 01:19:37,420
Speaker 1: she really wrote kind of like the first, I think,

1250
01:19:37,640 --> 01:19:45,700
Speaker 1: book that really ushered in the conversation about Christians who

1251
01:19:45,720 --> 01:19:49,380
Speaker 1: struggle with addiction. And she talks about sitting in a circle.

1252
01:19:50,700 --> 01:19:57,960
Speaker 1: And she talks about driving her kids drunk. And at

1253
01:19:58,060 --> 01:20:05,790
Speaker 1: one point someone blurts out basically like, you know, didn't

1254
01:20:05,810 --> 01:20:09,870
Speaker 1: we all? And the point wasn't that every single person

1255
01:20:09,910 --> 01:20:12,450
Speaker 1: in that circle drove their kids drunk. The point was

1256
01:20:12,990 --> 01:20:16,460
Speaker 1: we all did something like that. We all did the

1257
01:20:16,500 --> 01:20:20,840
Speaker 1: thing we never thought we would do. And if you're

1258
01:20:20,900 --> 01:20:24,519
Speaker 1: listening to this and you think, man, yeah, I've done

1259
01:20:24,560 --> 01:20:30,429
Speaker 1: that thing, whatever it is. And like if people knew Like,

1260
01:20:30,510 --> 01:20:32,230
Speaker 1: there's no coming back from that. And what I would

1261
01:20:32,250 --> 01:20:33,970
Speaker 1: say is there is coming back from that. Because I've

1262
01:20:34,010 --> 01:20:36,310
Speaker 1: come back from it. Heather's come back from it. Natasha

1263
01:20:36,330 --> 01:20:37,790
Speaker 1: has come back from it. And I can give you

1264
01:20:37,890 --> 01:20:39,950
Speaker 1: a whole slew and list of people who have come

1265
01:20:39,970 --> 01:20:42,450
Speaker 1: back from it. And so I just want you to

1266
01:20:42,490 --> 01:20:44,700
Speaker 1: know that you're not too far gone. Like, there still

1267
01:20:45,000 --> 01:20:51,220
Speaker 1: is hope. Now, this is kind of a new phrase

1268
01:20:51,620 --> 01:20:56,139
Speaker 1: that I introduced a couple weeks ago. But know this, though.

1269
01:20:57,020 --> 01:21:00,049
Speaker 1: That the further you go into your addiction without repenting,

1270
01:21:01,510 --> 01:21:06,680
Speaker 1: the higher the cost of brokenness becomes. So think about

1271
01:21:06,720 --> 01:21:09,180
Speaker 1: that for a second. The further you go without repentance,

1272
01:21:10,580 --> 01:21:16,170
Speaker 1: the higher, the costlier the cost of brokenness becomes. And

1273
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Speaker 1: that's not just like physical. It's not just, you know,

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01:21:20,270 --> 01:21:23,330
Speaker 1: DUI is on the horizon, right? I mean, there's emotional,

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01:21:23,370 --> 01:21:29,780
Speaker 1: there's familial costs that you don't even see. And so

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01:21:29,860 --> 01:21:36,160
Speaker 1: I just want to encourage you. It's better to start

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01:21:36,200 --> 01:21:41,230
Speaker 1: addressing it today than tomorrow. Like, you can. Shoot me

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01:21:41,250 --> 01:21:44,530
Speaker 1: an email. Go to VeritasRecovery.org. You can find resources. You

1279
01:21:44,570 --> 01:21:48,330
Speaker 1: can reach out to me as well. Thank you, as always,

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01:21:48,390 --> 01:21:53,650
Speaker 1: to our sponsor, Life Audio, that makes this podcast possible.

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01:21:53,810 --> 01:21:55,900
Speaker 1: I just announced this week.

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01:21:57,290 --> 01:22:00,320
Speaker 1: I am now the recovery ministry down at Rock Hill

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01:22:00,340 --> 01:22:03,800
Speaker 1: Baptist Church in Brownsboro, Texas, which is between Tyler and Athens.

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01:22:03,840 --> 01:22:05,979
Speaker 1: If you are in the area, come and see us

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01:22:06,000 --> 01:22:11,939
Speaker 1: on a Sunday. I'm going to be really just cultivating

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01:22:13,250 --> 01:22:17,910
Speaker 1: and hopefully showing the world what a gospel-centered recovery ministry

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01:22:17,950 --> 01:22:22,990
Speaker 1: can look like that's based in and out of the

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01:22:23,030 --> 01:22:28,320
Speaker 1: local church. Still doing everything with Veritas. Um, but, uh, uh,

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01:22:28,390 --> 01:22:31,930
Speaker 1: it's just one expression while the Rock Hill opportunity is another,

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01:22:32,150 --> 01:22:35,410
Speaker 1: and I am so honored to join them and, um,

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01:22:36,030 --> 01:22:42,450
Speaker 1: Pastor Heath Peloquin and the team that is there. And so, um, yeah,

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01:22:42,510 --> 01:22:44,470
Speaker 1: you can read that announcement as well. I'll, I'll put

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01:22:44,510 --> 01:22:47,330
Speaker 1: it in the show notes too, if you're interested, but, um,

1294
01:22:48,050 --> 01:22:50,710
Speaker 1: come see us, come see us, um, as well. I

1295
01:22:50,729 --> 01:22:51,870
Speaker 1: would love to see you in person.

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01:22:51,890 --> 01:22:52,510
Speaker 2: All right.

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01:22:52,590 --> 01:22:54,650
Speaker 1: We'll see you here next week. Love you all.