1 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:03,680 Speaker 1: Life Audio. 2 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:09,600 Speaker 2: Well, a warm welcome to everyone we have back with 3 00:00:09,680 --> 00:00:15,160 Speaker 2: us here live in beautiful Jerusalem. Our good friend, Rabbi 4 00:00:15,360 --> 00:00:20,000 Speaker 2: Schmuel Bowman, who is not only a rabbi but a 5 00:00:20,079 --> 00:00:25,200 Speaker 2: torust scribe and is the executive director of Operation Life Shield, 6 00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:29,600 Speaker 2: and he is a really treasured partner of the International 7 00:00:29,720 --> 00:00:33,239 Speaker 2: Christian Embassy Jerusalem and a dear friend of ours and 8 00:00:33,640 --> 00:00:36,040 Speaker 2: dear friend of mine. And it's just a joy to 9 00:00:36,280 --> 00:00:39,199 Speaker 2: have this time with him today to share with you 10 00:00:39,280 --> 00:00:43,559 Speaker 2: our audience his story as someone that has been a 11 00:00:43,760 --> 00:00:49,840 Speaker 2: real pioneer and mover and shaker in Jewish Christian relations. 12 00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:54,319 Speaker 3: Let's take a break and hear a message from one 13 00:00:54,320 --> 00:01:03,040 Speaker 3: of our sponsors. Welcome to the Israel Answer Series Connecting 14 00:01:03,200 --> 00:01:07,480 Speaker 3: Israel the Bible, and you join Susan Michael as she 15 00:01:07,520 --> 00:01:11,440 Speaker 3: explores timely issues and current events from a scriptural perspective 16 00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:14,720 Speaker 3: to equip the Christian world with a balance and biblical response. 17 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:18,640 Speaker 3: Be searching subscribe for future episodes which will ignite your 18 00:01:18,680 --> 00:01:22,440 Speaker 3: faith and bring the Bible to life in your everyday world. Now, 19 00:01:22,600 --> 00:01:25,200 Speaker 3: let's join Susan with your Israel answers. 20 00:01:29,080 --> 00:01:31,600 Speaker 2: And you know, my premise is that we don't read 21 00:01:31,640 --> 00:01:34,960 Speaker 2: a book about Jews and Christians working together and go 22 00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:38,480 Speaker 2: out and do it. We learn how to work together 23 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:42,800 Speaker 2: by actually working together. We learn the most from our mistakes. 24 00:01:43,400 --> 00:01:48,160 Speaker 2: But in this series we are interviewing several individuals that 25 00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:52,520 Speaker 2: have really been very involved in working between Jews and 26 00:01:52,600 --> 00:01:54,800 Speaker 2: Christians so that we can learn from them, we can 27 00:01:54,840 --> 00:01:59,440 Speaker 2: hear their stories. And so it's really wonderful to be 28 00:01:59,560 --> 00:02:04,320 Speaker 2: here with you again today. And so tell our audience 29 00:02:04,440 --> 00:02:07,080 Speaker 2: just a little bit about your background. You're from Canada, 30 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:09,720 Speaker 2: but tell us a bit about your family and your background. 31 00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:16,200 Speaker 1: Thank you, Susan. Yes, I'm from Toronto, Canada, and I 32 00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:20,400 Speaker 1: grew up in a home that was very traditional in 33 00:02:20,480 --> 00:02:24,880 Speaker 1: terms of our Jewish observance, very strong Zionist. 34 00:02:25,680 --> 00:02:26,080 Speaker 2: And. 35 00:02:27,760 --> 00:02:32,600 Speaker 1: We had a very open home. I learned really from 36 00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:36,680 Speaker 1: my parents that our home was a place, in a 37 00:02:36,760 --> 00:02:40,600 Speaker 1: sense like the Tent of Abraham, right open on all sides. 38 00:02:41,040 --> 00:02:44,480 Speaker 1: Everyone is invited to come in. And since we were 39 00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:50,240 Speaker 1: so proud of our Jewish identity and our practice, we're 40 00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:53,360 Speaker 1: just happy to model it. And we found that that 41 00:02:53,440 --> 00:02:57,120 Speaker 1: was something that a lot of people wanted to experience, 42 00:02:57,480 --> 00:03:00,520 Speaker 1: a place to ask questions, a place to try out. 43 00:03:01,080 --> 00:03:03,800 Speaker 1: And so as a result, it was very very common 44 00:03:04,480 --> 00:03:09,600 Speaker 1: for our home to have guests from all backgrounds, including 45 00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:14,880 Speaker 1: many many Christians who would just sit around the table 46 00:03:14,919 --> 00:03:18,000 Speaker 1: with us and go through the holidays with us. I 47 00:03:18,040 --> 00:03:21,079 Speaker 1: look back at our family scrap book and I see 48 00:03:21,200 --> 00:03:24,160 Speaker 1: Knakah for example, and there's me, and there's my sisters, 49 00:03:24,200 --> 00:03:26,400 Speaker 1: and my brothers, and my brother and my parents, and 50 00:03:27,200 --> 00:03:30,520 Speaker 1: then you know, other friends and families were all there 51 00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:36,800 Speaker 1: lighting candles. So this is Passover Satyr at my grandparents. 52 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:41,320 Speaker 1: And my grandfather was a rabbi and it was very 53 00:03:41,360 --> 00:03:47,480 Speaker 1: important to him and his gratitude for having found safe 54 00:03:47,480 --> 00:03:51,800 Speaker 1: shores in Canada. He came from Europe. His gratitude was 55 00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:56,400 Speaker 1: really again, please come and be our guest. I remember 56 00:03:56,680 --> 00:04:01,040 Speaker 1: as a child growing up at Passover Satyr, my grandparents 57 00:04:01,360 --> 00:04:05,800 Speaker 1: would have every year the Chief of Police of Toronto 58 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:09,600 Speaker 1: and his wife and family at our Passover table. And 59 00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:11,240 Speaker 1: this is a man who was a Christian. He was 60 00:04:11,240 --> 00:04:16,240 Speaker 1: from holland And originally, and so this became something that 61 00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:18,440 Speaker 1: I was very very used to. And I was also 62 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:21,920 Speaker 1: very used to the kinds of discussions that would happen 63 00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:26,360 Speaker 1: and the respect that everyone would have for one another 64 00:04:26,920 --> 00:04:29,480 Speaker 1: and for their differences. That's kind of like the background 65 00:04:29,839 --> 00:04:32,320 Speaker 1: to how I grew up in a sense by being 66 00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:33,840 Speaker 1: exposed to Christians. 67 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:38,720 Speaker 2: That's wonderful because it wasn't just about working together on 68 00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:43,559 Speaker 2: some common cause. It was really developing friendships and true 69 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:51,880 Speaker 2: relationships and relationships of really just mutual respect and two 70 00:04:51,920 --> 00:04:55,919 Speaker 2: way street and such a perfect background. And now I 71 00:04:56,040 --> 00:04:59,680 Speaker 2: understand so much more about why God led you into 72 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:02,120 Speaker 2: the world that you're doing and why you're so effective 73 00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:04,599 Speaker 2: at it. So finish the story a little bit. Tell 74 00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:08,880 Speaker 2: us how you personally then got involved in working with 75 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:11,800 Speaker 2: Christians here in the land. 76 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:17,480 Speaker 1: You know, it's it's it's funny because you know, a 77 00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:21,240 Speaker 1: Jewish person winds up making Aliyah means moving to Israel. 78 00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:25,080 Speaker 1: They're moving to the Jewish homeland, the surrounded by Jews. 79 00:05:25,160 --> 00:05:29,440 Speaker 1: Everything's Jewish, okay, everything's kosher, a lot of things, a 80 00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:32,320 Speaker 1: lot of the country has closed on Shabbat. You know, 81 00:05:32,360 --> 00:05:35,200 Speaker 1: there's a whole Jewish vibe going on here. And then 82 00:05:35,680 --> 00:05:37,680 Speaker 1: I wind up doing a lot of work with Christians. 83 00:05:37,720 --> 00:05:41,200 Speaker 1: It's almost like it's funny, and that's I mean, that's 84 00:05:41,240 --> 00:05:48,920 Speaker 1: the power of our God. And so my entire worldview 85 00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:53,920 Speaker 1: of how of how things worked with Christians is exactly 86 00:05:53,960 --> 00:05:56,400 Speaker 1: the way you said it. It's about the relationship. To 87 00:05:56,400 --> 00:06:01,279 Speaker 1: be quite honest, this whole thing called interfaith dialogue, that 88 00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:05,680 Speaker 1: wasn't the really something that I was into. And I 89 00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:07,080 Speaker 1: know a lot of people do that, and I think 90 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:10,960 Speaker 1: that's really really interesting. I'm not looking for dialogue. I'm 91 00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:16,440 Speaker 1: looking for relationships. Okay. A dialogue seems to denote Okay, 92 00:06:16,480 --> 00:06:17,760 Speaker 1: you've got your thing to say, and I've got my 93 00:06:17,839 --> 00:06:20,839 Speaker 1: thing to say. And in some cases maybe you want 94 00:06:20,839 --> 00:06:22,800 Speaker 1: to win me over with your points and I'm going 95 00:06:22,839 --> 00:06:24,719 Speaker 1: to win you over with my points. It almost becomes 96 00:06:24,760 --> 00:06:27,680 Speaker 1: like not an interfaith with the dialogue, but interfaith debate. 97 00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:31,480 Speaker 1: I don't want that. I want a relationship more than 98 00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:34,280 Speaker 1: anything else. I want you to come to our children's weddings. 99 00:06:35,040 --> 00:06:37,839 Speaker 1: I want to be there for you during your happy 100 00:06:37,880 --> 00:06:41,120 Speaker 1: times and during year not so happy times. I want 101 00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:45,000 Speaker 1: to be able to have a real relationship, an honest relationship, 102 00:06:45,279 --> 00:06:49,560 Speaker 1: and sometimes a relationship where it may even get difficult 103 00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:54,000 Speaker 1: and even uncomfortable. But when there's real relationship, we can persevere. 104 00:06:54,279 --> 00:06:58,159 Speaker 1: When I came to Israel, and after a short while, 105 00:06:59,760 --> 00:07:05,640 Speaker 1: God into in a sense, the life protecting business of 106 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:10,760 Speaker 1: placing bomb shelters in vulnerable communities. We found in very 107 00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:17,040 Speaker 1: short order that the community that jumped in quickly and 108 00:07:17,120 --> 00:07:23,040 Speaker 1: with one hundred percent support, we're our Christian friends. And 109 00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:28,640 Speaker 1: it's like, what is this and what happened Susan? Was 110 00:07:28,680 --> 00:07:34,000 Speaker 1: that anything that may have been differences between us that 111 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:38,320 Speaker 1: became so far, far far away from the core idea. 112 00:07:38,680 --> 00:07:42,000 Speaker 1: The core idea is the sanctity of life, the saving 113 00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:45,080 Speaker 1: of life, the protecting of life. What can we do, 114 00:07:45,200 --> 00:07:49,600 Speaker 1: what can we do together to keep people alive? 115 00:07:50,920 --> 00:07:51,320 Speaker 3: Okay? 116 00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:54,960 Speaker 1: Because you know what, all the dialogue and debate and 117 00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:59,600 Speaker 1: discussion isn't worth anything if you're not alive. Let's keep 118 00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:04,400 Speaker 1: people live. Let's protect children, Let's protect the elderly, Holocaust survivors, 119 00:08:04,960 --> 00:08:10,560 Speaker 1: the disabled, Let's work with soldiers who have PTSD. These 120 00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:12,960 Speaker 1: are all the communities that are top of our list 121 00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:17,440 Speaker 1: when we provide bomb shelters. And the Christian Zionists, in 122 00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:20,760 Speaker 1: other words, the Christians who look at Israel as the 123 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:25,880 Speaker 1: fulfillment of biblical prophecy, okay, who look at Israel as 124 00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:28,960 Speaker 1: not just any other country in the world, but as 125 00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:33,520 Speaker 1: the land that God chose for the chosen people, and 126 00:08:33,600 --> 00:08:37,280 Speaker 1: our partners with us in this great laboratory is great, great, 127 00:08:37,280 --> 00:08:44,160 Speaker 1: great adventure, okay, And it was a very refreshing, surprising, 128 00:08:45,280 --> 00:08:50,640 Speaker 1: okay thing to wind up literally partnering with Christians in 129 00:08:50,679 --> 00:08:53,320 Speaker 1: the work of saving and protecting lives of Israel. 130 00:08:54,679 --> 00:08:57,480 Speaker 2: And as a part of your work, you've traveled to 131 00:08:57,600 --> 00:09:03,040 Speaker 2: many countries, You've spoken in many churches, many Christian conferences. 132 00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:06,520 Speaker 2: I know, I run into you at a lot of 133 00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:11,920 Speaker 2: Christian conferences. It's like, of course, great to see you again. 134 00:09:13,520 --> 00:09:17,240 Speaker 2: So tell me how did it get started? Like who 135 00:09:17,360 --> 00:09:20,400 Speaker 2: was the first contact? And I know, let me just 136 00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:24,760 Speaker 2: explain to for our audience. We partner with Rabbi Bowman 137 00:09:24,920 --> 00:09:29,400 Speaker 2: by raising funds to place these bomb shelters. We've been 138 00:09:29,480 --> 00:09:32,720 Speaker 2: concentrating on southern Israel, which is near the Gaza Strip, 139 00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:36,040 Speaker 2: and now I think we're focusing more and more or 140 00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:40,600 Speaker 2: northern Israel because there is a threat there as well. 141 00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:44,880 Speaker 2: And we as an organization have funded over one hundred 142 00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:48,520 Speaker 2: and seventy bomb shelters by now, but you have placed 143 00:09:48,679 --> 00:09:53,720 Speaker 2: over five hundred. Wow, what a special ministry it is 144 00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:59,160 Speaker 2: because we are saving lives. But in addition to saving lives, 145 00:09:59,240 --> 00:10:03,280 Speaker 2: we're just giving a greater sense of security to many families. 146 00:10:03,640 --> 00:10:06,320 Speaker 2: When they know that there is a shelter nearby now, 147 00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:09,280 Speaker 2: or that there's a shelter at their children's playground that 148 00:10:09,400 --> 00:10:12,880 Speaker 2: wasn't there before, they have a greater sense of security 149 00:10:12,920 --> 00:10:14,920 Speaker 2: and that gives them just a little bit more peace. 150 00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:17,840 Speaker 2: They may sleep just a little bit better at night. 151 00:10:18,360 --> 00:10:21,960 Speaker 2: It's very impacting on many lives. And then the fact 152 00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:24,880 Speaker 2: that there's a donor plaque on each bomb shelter that 153 00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:28,679 Speaker 2: tells this has been placed here by the International Christian 154 00:10:28,679 --> 00:10:33,080 Speaker 2: Embassy Jerusalem or whoever the donor is really encourages the 155 00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:37,440 Speaker 2: people that these Christians care enough about us that they 156 00:10:37,640 --> 00:10:41,640 Speaker 2: funded this bomb shelter. So tell us how you got 157 00:10:41,679 --> 00:10:45,440 Speaker 2: started in this and working with the Christians specifically. 158 00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:49,480 Speaker 1: So when we started Operational Life Shield in two thousand 159 00:10:49,480 --> 00:10:53,000 Speaker 1: and six following the Second Levenon War as a response 160 00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:58,200 Speaker 1: to the fact that the type of warfare that the 161 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:04,800 Speaker 1: enemy was launching against Israel had changed. You have during 162 00:11:04,800 --> 00:11:08,360 Speaker 1: the Second Lebanon War three thousand, three hundred rockets firing 163 00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:10,520 Speaker 1: at northern Israel a period of one month is about 164 00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:14,599 Speaker 1: over one hundred rockets a day, and over almost a 165 00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:19,200 Speaker 1: half a million Israelis were deplaced. Okay, they were in 166 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:22,120 Speaker 1: a sense refugees in our in their own country, having 167 00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:26,080 Speaker 1: to flee northern Israel. When the dust settled, so to speak, 168 00:11:26,120 --> 00:11:29,160 Speaker 1: we looked around and said, well, what's needed? And the 169 00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:31,640 Speaker 1: founders of Operation Life Sholl turn to the art to 170 00:11:31,679 --> 00:11:36,240 Speaker 1: the Israeli Army and said, what can we do? Because 171 00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:38,400 Speaker 1: this is a country where we do. We stepped in 172 00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:41,360 Speaker 1: and they said they told us that what we needed 173 00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:44,440 Speaker 1: were shelters that you could run too quickly and then 174 00:11:44,840 --> 00:11:47,000 Speaker 1: go back and carry on your life. And so we 175 00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:49,520 Speaker 1: took that on our as our focus. And we're the 176 00:11:49,640 --> 00:11:55,959 Speaker 1: lead charitable organization in Israel that that that that places 177 00:11:55,960 --> 00:12:00,280 Speaker 1: bomb shelters. And so when we started this really didn't 178 00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:02,800 Speaker 1: know who to turn to. And it just so happened 179 00:12:02,800 --> 00:12:05,720 Speaker 1: that God placed it that one of the member one 180 00:12:05,800 --> 00:12:08,400 Speaker 1: a team member, happened to be on a bus sitting 181 00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:14,640 Speaker 1: behind the side a Christian named Earl Cox, and Earl 182 00:12:14,679 --> 00:12:19,680 Speaker 1: Cox and his friend Ben Kinchlow of Blessed Memory Memory 183 00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:23,240 Speaker 1: had a show with ICJ called Front Page Jerusalem, if 184 00:12:23,280 --> 00:12:26,280 Speaker 1: I'm not mistaken, way back, and she started talking to 185 00:12:26,360 --> 00:12:31,480 Speaker 1: him and invited him to see a bomb shelter. And 186 00:12:31,520 --> 00:12:34,000 Speaker 1: when he saw that, and when he saw the bomb shelter. 187 00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:37,440 Speaker 1: He actually saw it, and a siren went off, and 188 00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:40,320 Speaker 1: he understood how important was. He started opening doors and 189 00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:49,800 Speaker 1: introducing us to to the ICJ, to Daryl Heading, who 190 00:12:49,880 --> 00:12:53,280 Speaker 1: was the head of ICJ Jerusalem at the time. Malcolm's 191 00:12:53,320 --> 00:12:58,680 Speaker 1: using Malcolm Heading pardon me. And that started, in a sense, 192 00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:02,439 Speaker 1: this wonderful, wonderful relationship that has just flourished and gone onward. 193 00:13:03,280 --> 00:13:05,560 Speaker 1: Today when you talk about the partnership, you talk about 194 00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:09,520 Speaker 1: these plaques and I'm so, you know, like I've told 195 00:13:09,880 --> 00:13:12,480 Speaker 1: I've told my colleagues at ICJ, I've told Nicole Yoder, 196 00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:16,360 Speaker 1: who's head of Aidan Alia. I believe that when you 197 00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:19,840 Speaker 1: put a plaque, a dedication plaque on a shelter that 198 00:13:19,880 --> 00:13:25,400 Speaker 1: says this bomb shelter is donated by ICJ at USA, 199 00:13:25,520 --> 00:13:29,040 Speaker 1: for example, I think that that's the sanctification of God's name. 200 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:33,880 Speaker 1: People have a chance to look at that and stop 201 00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:38,040 Speaker 1: and say, wait a second, who donated this? Who just 202 00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:41,640 Speaker 1: saved my life? Who is providing day to day comfort, 203 00:13:41,679 --> 00:13:44,640 Speaker 1: so my child can go to kindergarten and I can 204 00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:47,360 Speaker 1: leave my child in school while I go to work. 205 00:13:47,400 --> 00:13:49,920 Speaker 1: Who's this? Oh, let me look into this a little 206 00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:52,640 Speaker 1: bit more. This is very interesting. So when you talk 207 00:13:52,679 --> 00:13:57,480 Speaker 1: about doing Jewish Christian relations, that's doing Jewish Christian relations. 208 00:13:57,600 --> 00:14:01,520 Speaker 1: Because now somebody who's whose life has just protected goes, 209 00:14:01,559 --> 00:14:04,679 Speaker 1: wait a second, I need to understand this. I need 210 00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:08,280 Speaker 1: to rethink anything that I may have thought about regarding 211 00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:12,600 Speaker 1: this two thousand year history of Jewish Christian relations, not 212 00:14:12,679 --> 00:14:18,720 Speaker 1: all of which was so fantastic. To put it lightly, Israelis, 213 00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:21,760 Speaker 1: many of whom have never ever met a Christian before, 214 00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:24,800 Speaker 1: are suddenly asking questions, and they're often coming to me, 215 00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:27,600 Speaker 1: which makes it even more hilarious because here I am 216 00:14:27,640 --> 00:14:34,280 Speaker 1: an Orthodox Jewish rabbi answering questions about why Christians love Israel. 217 00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:36,800 Speaker 1: So as I say, it's a sanctification of God's name. 218 00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:40,560 Speaker 3: Let's take a break and hear a message from one 219 00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:47,760 Speaker 3: of our sponsors. Welcome back to the Out of Zion 220 00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:49,680 Speaker 3: podcast with Susan Michael. 221 00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:51,400 Speaker 1: So. 222 00:14:52,920 --> 00:14:58,360 Speaker 2: I'm sure you've gotten some pushback, some like you've had 223 00:14:58,400 --> 00:15:01,480 Speaker 2: to explain a lot of times. I'm sure why you're 224 00:15:01,520 --> 00:15:04,360 Speaker 2: doing what you're doing and why you're working with us, 225 00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:07,440 Speaker 2: But I do know that there's also been moments of 226 00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:12,200 Speaker 2: great gratitude to from those that are receiving these shelters, 227 00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:16,520 Speaker 2: and so tell us, first of all, if you would 228 00:15:16,560 --> 00:15:23,000 Speaker 2: give our audience some advice both we may have Jews 229 00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:25,640 Speaker 2: listening to us and we have Christians listening to us. 230 00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:28,920 Speaker 2: So what would be your advice to each group if 231 00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:34,040 Speaker 2: they're wanting to begin to work together, but they really 232 00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:36,960 Speaker 2: have not yet begun and would like to learn from you, 233 00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:38,080 Speaker 2: what would be your advice? 234 00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:40,440 Speaker 3: So, sis, and. 235 00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:49,640 Speaker 1: We are sitting in a window of opportunity, and windows 236 00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:55,000 Speaker 1: usually stay closed, but this window's open. If you were 237 00:15:55,040 --> 00:16:00,600 Speaker 1: to ask my great grandparents back in Europe, I can 238 00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:03,720 Speaker 1: poland what do you think about what do you think 239 00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:08,200 Speaker 1: about the possibility of a relationship with Christians? After they 240 00:16:08,240 --> 00:16:12,640 Speaker 1: finished laughing, they would be crying. It just was impossible. 241 00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:17,280 Speaker 1: If you were to ask Christians in our history, what 242 00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:19,960 Speaker 1: do you think of that idea of having a real, honest, 243 00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:26,440 Speaker 1: true loving relationship, It wouldn't even It would be an impossibility. 244 00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:30,640 Speaker 1: We are literally sitting in this incredible God given window 245 00:16:30,640 --> 00:16:33,000 Speaker 1: of opportunity. Ah. So now that what do we do 246 00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:35,080 Speaker 1: when we have a window of opportunity. We need to 247 00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:39,720 Speaker 1: really be careful. We need to use this opportunity wisely, 248 00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:42,800 Speaker 1: because that window can be shut, or a window over 249 00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:44,800 Speaker 1: there can be shut, or a door over there can 250 00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:47,440 Speaker 1: be closed. So how do we keep that window open? 251 00:16:47,560 --> 00:16:50,560 Speaker 1: We need to really think about what this relationship looks like. 252 00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:54,880 Speaker 1: We need to think about how we have respectful consideration 253 00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:58,720 Speaker 1: towards one another. We may be coming with our own 254 00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:04,200 Speaker 1: world views and with our own marching orders. We may 255 00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:08,840 Speaker 1: need to park that, okay and focus on the relationship. 256 00:17:09,560 --> 00:17:13,240 Speaker 1: It's like a family coming together finally, after many, many 257 00:17:13,320 --> 00:17:18,399 Speaker 1: years of bitter rivalry and infighting in a family, or 258 00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:22,040 Speaker 1: amongst friends, or even in a business, you come down 259 00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:25,240 Speaker 1: to that dining room table if it's a family, or 260 00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:28,959 Speaker 1: the boardroom table if it's a company, or the negotiation 261 00:17:29,119 --> 00:17:32,199 Speaker 1: table if it's between countries. And what you're gonna do 262 00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:34,600 Speaker 1: is you're gonna say, we're gonna have to leave all 263 00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:37,520 Speaker 1: of the bitterness and the difficulties at the door for now, 264 00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:42,760 Speaker 1: and let's focus on just let's start with the basics. 265 00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:46,960 Speaker 1: Who are you, what's important to you? Tell me about 266 00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:50,600 Speaker 1: your family, Tell me about your parents, Where are you from, 267 00:17:51,119 --> 00:17:54,880 Speaker 1: what are your dreams, what are your hopes? The basics 268 00:17:54,920 --> 00:17:58,200 Speaker 1: of being a human being, and not to start hammering 269 00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:00,399 Speaker 1: each other over the head with oh, yeah, well, Tora 270 00:18:01,119 --> 00:18:04,760 Speaker 1: thinks believes, and that's why da da da or to 271 00:18:04,760 --> 00:18:06,880 Speaker 1: come along and say, yeah, well the gospel and this 272 00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:09,040 Speaker 1: is what you know I'm supposed to be telling you. 273 00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:13,399 Speaker 1: Very nice, we've heard it all before. That's when the 274 00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:17,320 Speaker 1: window is closed. Right now, the window is open, and 275 00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:20,840 Speaker 1: let's work on the relationship. Let's dance at each other's weddings, 276 00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:25,000 Speaker 1: Let's cry at each other's funerals, Let's be there for 277 00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:28,080 Speaker 1: each other. That's my advice for beginning. 278 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:33,680 Speaker 2: We have so much to learn from each other. And 279 00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:37,800 Speaker 2: if we are just there with our agenda or we're 280 00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:41,320 Speaker 2: just trying to push something on the other one, we 281 00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:44,880 Speaker 2: rob ourselves of being able to learn from the other. 282 00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:50,600 Speaker 2: My life has been so enriched by this relationship, and 283 00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:53,600 Speaker 2: I assume yours has two. Would you be able to 284 00:18:53,640 --> 00:18:57,440 Speaker 2: share with us something that has impacted you personally from 285 00:18:57,480 --> 00:18:57,960 Speaker 2: this work. 286 00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:03,040 Speaker 1: Yes, many things, and we don't have the time for 287 00:19:03,119 --> 00:19:07,480 Speaker 1: this in this conversation at the moment. One of things 288 00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:13,040 Speaker 1: that has impacted me is a two part thing is 289 00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:17,600 Speaker 1: knowing that we're not doing this alone, that we have 290 00:19:17,720 --> 00:19:21,399 Speaker 1: partners in this great journey. I do believe that God 291 00:19:21,640 --> 00:19:26,480 Speaker 1: is looking at us, at his children and saying, all 292 00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:29,680 Speaker 1: I want from my children is for them to get 293 00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:34,720 Speaker 1: along and to respect one another. Right, what would any 294 00:19:34,840 --> 00:19:39,080 Speaker 1: parent want for their children if not for others to 295 00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:41,480 Speaker 1: like their children and to take care of them. That's 296 00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:44,520 Speaker 1: what God wants from us. So I have seen that 297 00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:46,960 Speaker 1: we have that and we're able to fulfill that. And 298 00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:50,520 Speaker 1: it's absolutely amazing that we can do that. And the 299 00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:54,560 Speaker 1: second thing is what happens when that happens. What is 300 00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:57,520 Speaker 1: the effect in the world, in our lives, in our 301 00:19:57,520 --> 00:20:02,560 Speaker 1: communities when this relationshi and ship happens. And I've seen this, 302 00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:05,600 Speaker 1: So there's a very powerful story, if I may share, 303 00:20:06,359 --> 00:20:08,240 Speaker 1: you know, I think about all the powerful that many 304 00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:14,600 Speaker 1: many powerful and meaningful stories that have happened that have 305 00:20:14,680 --> 00:20:20,440 Speaker 1: come out of this Jewish Christian relationship, this Schmool Susan relationship. 306 00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:30,080 Speaker 1: It's when we actually visited with ICJ directors and visitors 307 00:20:30,119 --> 00:20:35,760 Speaker 1: to southern Israel. A farm field had gone up in 308 00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:40,280 Speaker 1: flames in the region of Stutt Neegev on the Gaza border, 309 00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:46,960 Speaker 1: at a kibutz called kibutzel Mim. And it was such 310 00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:50,800 Speaker 1: a horrific experience to be there, literally as the the 311 00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:55,320 Speaker 1: char on the on the wheat had literally was still smoldering, 312 00:20:56,040 --> 00:20:58,320 Speaker 1: and you were there, and I don't know about you. 313 00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:01,240 Speaker 1: I think I don't wash your clothes afterwards. I think 314 00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:04,000 Speaker 1: I had to throw my clothes out afterwards. The smell 315 00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:10,280 Speaker 1: of the burning stayed with us, right and we literally 316 00:21:10,359 --> 00:21:14,639 Speaker 1: drove the bus into what was just the day before 317 00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:21,600 Speaker 1: a totally burning field. And the security chief, Rafi Babyan, 318 00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:25,000 Speaker 1: who lives there and is a farmer there, has a 319 00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:31,000 Speaker 1: personal relationship with this community, with this field, and he 320 00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:34,720 Speaker 1: was so bitter and so sad, and it was such 321 00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:38,880 Speaker 1: a tragic, tragic, tragic moment. And here we are Jews 322 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:44,640 Speaker 1: and Christians on this bus and Muslims. There were two 323 00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:49,879 Speaker 1: buses and each bus had a Muslim Arab driver and 324 00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:54,040 Speaker 1: Rafi Orthodox Jewish man keep on his head, stood in 325 00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:56,359 Speaker 1: the middle of a burning field what had been a 326 00:21:56,359 --> 00:22:00,560 Speaker 1: burning field, the ashes still smoldering, and asked all of 327 00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:03,440 Speaker 1: us to come together in a circle, Jews and Christians, 328 00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:10,160 Speaker 1: and to pray. And then he invited the Arab Muslim 329 00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:15,560 Speaker 1: drivers to join us. And he also understood that if 330 00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:18,600 Speaker 1: they didn't come, it was also because that they would 331 00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:22,120 Speaker 1: fear for their lives, because we're all taking pictures and 332 00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:26,480 Speaker 1: if their pictures were ever shared, their lives and the 333 00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:29,280 Speaker 1: lives of their families would be in very serious danger, 334 00:22:30,119 --> 00:22:31,840 Speaker 1: and so he understood that if they wouldn't be able 335 00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:35,680 Speaker 1: to join us. But then we noticed something. We noticed, 336 00:22:36,119 --> 00:22:41,280 Speaker 1: even with the threat of death, the Arab drivers left 337 00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:44,240 Speaker 1: the buses and joined the circle a little bit back 338 00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:47,119 Speaker 1: so they wouldn't be photographed, but they joined our prayer circle. 339 00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:53,760 Speaker 1: And I thought, isn't this amazing? Isn't God great that 340 00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:58,919 Speaker 1: we are able to do this, in this relationship with 341 00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:01,520 Speaker 1: Jews and Christians being able to come together, in this 342 00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:06,760 Speaker 1: tragedy of this burnt field, that we were able to 343 00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:11,800 Speaker 1: in a sense elevate and turn our prayers heavenward and 344 00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:16,840 Speaker 1: be joined also by our Arab Muslim cousins. Isn't that amazing? 345 00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:19,200 Speaker 1: I thought? For me, that was one of the great 346 00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:21,919 Speaker 1: great moments of my life. 347 00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:24,320 Speaker 2: You know what I love about it is that I 348 00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:28,119 Speaker 2: was there that day and that your number one story 349 00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:31,840 Speaker 2: is one that I witnessed and was a part of. 350 00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:39,640 Speaker 2: It was really special. He RAFFI wanted to pray, He 351 00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:44,600 Speaker 2: really wanted to pray together, and it was so heartfelt. 352 00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:48,720 Speaker 2: And you've worked with a lot of these security chiefs 353 00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:52,080 Speaker 2: in the South that we have come alongside. We've not 354 00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:57,640 Speaker 2: only placed bomb shelters, we provided firefighting equipment for them 355 00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:02,399 Speaker 2: and safety gear. And do you have another story of 356 00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:06,280 Speaker 2: maybe a response from some of the security chiefs of 357 00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:09,160 Speaker 2: what this has meant to them. 358 00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:14,439 Speaker 1: Look, when you're talking about practical equipment, our prayers have 359 00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:18,240 Speaker 1: to have feet, Okay, Our prayers have to feel We 360 00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:20,480 Speaker 1: can pray and pray, and then the idea is how 361 00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:25,320 Speaker 1: do we act? And yes, I'm literally talking and meeting 362 00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:29,040 Speaker 1: with the security chiefs from all the regions and municipalities 363 00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:32,720 Speaker 1: in southern Israel around the Gauza border, and all the 364 00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:36,920 Speaker 1: security chiefs in northern Israel facing the Lebanon border. I'm 365 00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:41,040 Speaker 1: talking with them literally every single day, and they're reporting 366 00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:46,760 Speaker 1: back to me on how these projects, these gifts that 367 00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:51,600 Speaker 1: are coming from Christians who want to stand with us 368 00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:55,199 Speaker 1: and be partners with us, are literally saving lives on 369 00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:58,320 Speaker 1: a day to day basis. So, for example, I keep 370 00:24:58,359 --> 00:25:04,879 Speaker 1: with Sad where on that particular day, the school had 371 00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:11,919 Speaker 1: been canceled, okay, and the principal, yeahskel his name. You 372 00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:14,359 Speaker 1: imagine having a name, Have you imagine having the name 373 00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:19,760 Speaker 1: you know of Ezekiel? You know the principal Ezekiel is 374 00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:24,280 Speaker 1: having a staff meeting and meanwhile rockets are falling on 375 00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:26,919 Speaker 1: the school, but the school is protected. At the end 376 00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:30,359 Speaker 1: of the day, he goes out into the school yard 377 00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:35,119 Speaker 1: where we have placed bell shelters by the ICJ. He 378 00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:38,320 Speaker 1: notices something strange because he knows that the school's canceled 379 00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:42,400 Speaker 1: that day. He notices something strange. He sees a baby stroller, 380 00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:47,040 Speaker 1: He sees a telephone, a cell phone in it, abandoned. 381 00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:50,720 Speaker 1: What's going on? He goes a little bit further and 382 00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:52,760 Speaker 1: then the darkness of the bell shelter because it now 383 00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:57,679 Speaker 1: is nighttime. There was a mother, a child, an adult friend, 384 00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:03,479 Speaker 1: and a dog cowering inside this dark bell shelter. She 385 00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:05,520 Speaker 1: had left her cell phone and the baby stroller because 386 00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:07,399 Speaker 1: they ran and left everything so she couldn't be in 387 00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:11,600 Speaker 1: contact with anybody. And there she was in that bomb shelter. 388 00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:17,520 Speaker 1: Bombs had literally, rockets had literally fallen around her. This mother, 389 00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:22,600 Speaker 1: her friend, her child, and their dog. Their lives were 390 00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:26,720 Speaker 1: all saved. And it was witnessed by the principal, the 391 00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:29,119 Speaker 1: school principal who reported back to me and called me 392 00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:36,480 Speaker 1: and said, your friends, your Christian friends, saved an entire world. 393 00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:40,560 Speaker 2: That's beautiful. Well, I hope that you all have enjoyed 394 00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:44,919 Speaker 2: learning from Rabbi Bowman today and just get a taste 395 00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:49,119 Speaker 2: of the depths of the relationship that we are privileged 396 00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:52,280 Speaker 2: to be a part of in our generation, in our day. 397 00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:56,000 Speaker 2: As he said, the window is open now and such 398 00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:59,960 Speaker 2: a fulfilling relationship. And so we've learned so much from 399 00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:03,200 Speaker 2: from you today and from your experiences. We thank you 400 00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:06,520 Speaker 2: for sharing with our audience, and we look forward to 401 00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:10,600 Speaker 2: having you back on another day. So we will see 402 00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:14,760 Speaker 2: you back here next week and until then, God bless 403 00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:18,800 Speaker 2: and I want to offer you a free download. We 404 00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:23,919 Speaker 2: have a download ten Reasons to Stand with Israel, and 405 00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:27,480 Speaker 2: actually it's ten reasons why Christians should stand with Israel. 406 00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:31,359 Speaker 2: Get your free download by going to the link in 407 00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:36,159 Speaker 2: today's show note or go to www dot out of 408 00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:41,800 Speaker 2: zionshow dot com and click on the tab for resources. 409 00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:45,560 Speaker 2: We'll have it there as well. But be sure download 410 00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:49,720 Speaker 2: this free resource for you. We're going to be talking 411 00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:52,280 Speaker 2: about some of the points in it in the coming week, 412 00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:55,000 Speaker 2: so we want to make sure that you have it. 413 00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:57,159 Speaker 2: You can print it out, you can share it with 414 00:27:57,240 --> 00:28:00,879 Speaker 2: friends and family, invite them to join us here on 415 00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:04,560 Speaker 2: the Out of Zion show for our Israel Answer Series. 416 00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:07,760 Speaker 2: So we'll see you back here next week and until then, 417 00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:10,280 Speaker 2: God bless We. 418 00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:13,080 Speaker 3: Hope you have enjoyed this episode of Out of Zion 419 00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:16,480 Speaker 3: with Susan Michael. Be sure to subscribe to out of 420 00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:22,600 Speaker 3: Zion now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, Pray dot Com, 421 00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:27,639 Speaker 3: Salem Oneplace, Salem Life Audio. Out of Zion with Susan 422 00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:32,200 Speaker 3: Michael is a production of ic Ejusa. All rights reserved. 423 00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:40,120 Speaker 3: This podcast is presented in partnership with Life Audio to 424 00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:44,000 Speaker 3: explore a wide range of faith centered podcasts on prayer, 425 00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:50,440 Speaker 3: Bible study, parenting, and more. Visit lifeaudio dot com.