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Speaker 1: My name is Charlie Kirk. I run the largest pro

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Speaker 1: American student organization in the country, fighting for the future

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Speaker 1: of our republic. My call is to fight evil and

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Speaker 1: to proclaim truth. If the most important thing for you

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Speaker 1: is just feeling good, you're gonna end up miserable. But

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Speaker 1: if the most important thing is doing good, you'll end

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Speaker 1: up purposeful. College is a scam, everybody. You got to

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Speaker 1: stop sending your kids to college. You should get married

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Speaker 1: as young as possible and have as many kids as possible.

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Speaker 1: Go start at turning point you would say college chapter.

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Speaker 1: Go start attning point youould say high school chapter. Go

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Speaker 1: find out how your church can get involved.

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Speaker 2: Sign up and become an activist.

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Speaker 1: I gave my life to the Lord in fifth grade,

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Speaker 1: most important decision I ever made in my life, and

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Speaker 1: I encourage you to do the same. Here I am.

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Speaker 2: Lord, Use me.

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Speaker 1: Buckle up, everybody, Here we go. The Charlie Kirk Show

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Speaker 1: is proudly sponsored by Preserved Gold, leading gold and silver

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Speaker 1: experts and the only precious metals company. I recommend to

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Speaker 1: my family, friends and viewers.

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Speaker 2: Hey, everybody, welcome to a very special episode of The

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Speaker 2: Charlie Kirk Show. We're going to have a long form

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Speaker 2: discussion about some changes that are happening at the CDC,

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Speaker 2: conversations that are continuing to evolve when it comes to

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Speaker 2: vaccines and autism, about the hep B shot, and getting

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Speaker 2: deep into questions that we receive here at the Charlie

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Speaker 2: Kirk Show from moms all around the country wanting to

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Speaker 2: know how they should be addressing and thinking about when

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Speaker 2: the issues that come up when they have their own children,

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Speaker 2: when they're pregnant. There's so much here in so much

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Speaker 2: practical discussions that we need to have for you out

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Speaker 2: there in the audience that we wanted to bring in

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Speaker 2: two experts of this area. It's a very dynamic area.

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Speaker 2: There's a lot of confusion about it, and that's what

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Speaker 2: this conversation is designed to do, is to bring clarity

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Speaker 2: in a sea of confusion where there's still a lot

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Speaker 2: of questions and we're to help us navigate this very

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Speaker 2: important topic. Is doctor Joel Gator Walsh is MD and

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Speaker 2: author of a new book, Between a Shot and a

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Speaker 2: Hard Place right here, and you can find him on

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Speaker 2: x and Instagram at doctor Joel Gator. Thank you so

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Speaker 2: much for joining us. I know that Alex Clark has

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Speaker 2: also had you in panels at our events, and it's

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Speaker 2: honored to have you back with us here.

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Speaker 3: It's an honor to be here, and I really appreciate

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Speaker 3: you guys having a vaccine talk. I know that that

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Speaker 3: is not something that everyone's willing to do, and I

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Speaker 3: think it's so important.

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Speaker 2: Well, there's no way to honor Charlie Kirk, the namesake

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Speaker 2: of the show, than talking about this topic because he

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Speaker 2: was passionate about it. And the second guest that we

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Speaker 2: have here is Aaron Siri. He's also the he's the

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Speaker 2: So let me get all of your titles here, because

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Speaker 2: there's a few. Your civil rights attorney, you're the managing

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Speaker 2: partner of Siri in Gilmstad LLP. Your website is sirilp

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Speaker 2: dot com. And you did the author of this book,

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Speaker 2: Vaccines Amen, which has just come out. And you guys

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Speaker 2: were before we took the show here, you guys were

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Speaker 2: both read each other's stuff. So this is going to

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Speaker 2: be a really fantastic conversation back and forth. And it's

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Speaker 2: not a debate, it really is. There's just so many

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Speaker 2: practical questions that parents and families are having about this topic,

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Speaker 2: and there's been some new changes at the CDC. Obviously,

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Speaker 2: RFK is now head of HHS. There's a lot of

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Speaker 2: controversy about that, a lot of discussion about that. So

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Speaker 2: we want to just try and help bring clarity to

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Speaker 2: a dynamic conversation. So here to help us also bring

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Speaker 2: clarity to this is Riley Marty. She is our resident

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Speaker 2: MAHA expert. And you're just a fan of all things

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Speaker 2: health related. You and Charlie shared that in common, and

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Speaker 2: so thank you for joining as well and for setting

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Speaker 2: this up. So let's get into it. These are there's

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Speaker 2: two things I want to take. The first thing, I

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Speaker 2: think it's a little easier to wrap our brains around,

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Speaker 2: and there's probably fewer questions, but it's very very important,

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Speaker 2: and so that'll be kind of our on ramp into

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Speaker 2: this larger vaccine discussion. So on December fifth, the CDC's

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Speaker 2: Advisory Committee on Immunization, so the ASIP or ACIP, voted

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Speaker 2: eight to three to drop the long standing universal recommendation

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Speaker 2: that every newborn receive hepatitis B vaccines. I will tell

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Speaker 2: you I have three small kids. When they start when

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Speaker 2: you have a baby in the hospital and they just

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Speaker 2: start shooting things into the baby and they're putting you know,

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Speaker 2: You're like, you don't even Many parents are probably like me,

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Speaker 2: especially with our first where you just had no idea

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Speaker 2: that was even gonna happen, and you're wondering, like it

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Speaker 2: must be necessary. They're doing this. So when it comes

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Speaker 2: to HEPB, let's explain the logic originally, maybe first with you,

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Speaker 2: doctor Gator. What was the logic of making it mandatory

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Speaker 2: the CDC was advising it now they are no longer,

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Speaker 2: what was the original rationale for that and why the change?

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Speaker 3: So Originally, when the hepatitis B vaccine was brought out,

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Speaker 3: it was more for high risk groups because the main

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Speaker 3: way that you would get it would be like an STD,

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Speaker 3: through sexual contact or through drug use. But there were

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Speaker 3: still tens of thousands of cases every year, and so

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Speaker 3: they decided that they would recommend that to all babies

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Speaker 3: in the first day of life to get the hepatitis

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Speaker 3: B to decrease those cases near down to zero. And

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Speaker 3: the reality is it did work pretty well. I mean,

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Speaker 3: we did see a big decrease in the hepatitis B disease,

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Speaker 3: but that is still mainly coming from individuals who had

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Speaker 3: hepatitis B as mom passing it on to the baby.

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Speaker 3: It was extremely rare. It's still extremely rare for a

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Speaker 3: baby who's born to a hepatitis B negative mother to

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Speaker 3: get hepatitis B. Is it possible, Yes, it is possible

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Speaker 3: that a test could be wrong, that you could get

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Speaker 3: hepatitis B after you do the testing, or somebody could

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Speaker 3: come by and bleed on your baby. But again, that's

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Speaker 3: extremely extremely rare. We're talking like one in a million

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Speaker 3: to one in seven million by best guesses. And so

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Speaker 3: when you're talking about the medical community, a lot of

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Speaker 3: times you only hear about benefits and a lot of

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Speaker 3: doctors saying, well, we want to make sure every single

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Speaker 3: baby gets hepatitis V vaccine so that no babies ever

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Speaker 3: get it. And the reality is, I don't want any

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Speaker 3: baby to get hepatitis B or any infection at all.

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Speaker 3: But you have to weigh the risks versus the benefits.

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Speaker 3: And there are risks to any intervention that we do,

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Speaker 3: any medication and any vaccine, and we're not acknowledging that

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Speaker 3: in the medical community. And I think for something that's

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Speaker 3: so rare, let's say it's one in a million, you

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Speaker 3: have to ask giving this vaccine to three million kids

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Speaker 3: that don't necessarily need it to protect one kid? Is

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Speaker 3: that worth it within the first twenty four hours? Why

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Speaker 3: within the first twenty four hours? And then you're talking

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Speaker 3: about the known risks and the unknown risks and you

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Speaker 3: have to weigh that. And a lot of other countries

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Speaker 3: have looked at that calculation and said, you know what,

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Speaker 3: we're going to only recommend it to high risk babies.

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Speaker 3: And so what we decided, and what ASP decided, was

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Speaker 3: that they are going to go to this high risk

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Speaker 3: group decision where you're not necessarily going to recommend it

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Speaker 3: for baby. If you are in that high risk group,

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Speaker 3: you could you do it. If you want to do it,

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Speaker 3: you can still do it. But now it's a shared

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Speaker 3: clinical decision making versus an explicit recommendation. It was never

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Speaker 3: mandatory per se. It was just a recommendation, and now

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Speaker 3: they're removing that recommendation in place of making it shared

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Speaker 3: clinical decision making.

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Speaker 2: So you're saying that basically, this new advisory or this

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Speaker 2: new decision eight three, which remember and you were educating

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Speaker 2: me on this and I remember the story is that

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Speaker 2: you know RFK came in he basically removed the seventeen

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Speaker 2: members of ASIP right I don't know what you would

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Speaker 2: call them, the voting voting members, voting members, and now

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Speaker 2: they haven't replaced all of them yet, but the one

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Speaker 2: there was an eight three vote to drop this universal recommendation.

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Speaker 2: And you're you're I guess you were. We were discussing

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Speaker 2: this before we took on the show here, but you

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Speaker 2: were saying that some of the risks are fever, other

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Speaker 2: other known risks that maybe would be potentially worse than

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Speaker 2: I guess I would say worse. But you have to

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Speaker 2: know the risk, right, This is informed consent idea, right.

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Speaker 3: I mean, we know that there's a risk of fever,

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Speaker 3: and in the Hepothetis B trials it was about one

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Speaker 3: to five percent. And if a newborn gets a fever,

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Speaker 3: that's a big deal. They're getting a full work up,

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Speaker 3: they're getting a lumbar puncture, so that's something to keep

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Speaker 3: in mind. We also know that they can have encephalitis

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Speaker 3: and encephalopathy. We know that they can have autimmune conditions

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Speaker 3: like yam Brace syndrome. That's just what we know. And

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Speaker 3: then there's all the things that we don't know because

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Speaker 3: by and large, we haven't really studied it long term.

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Speaker 3: We're not really sure what it does to the immune

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Speaker 3: system long term and if there are long term complications,

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Speaker 3: and that gets controversial, but to be you have to

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Speaker 3: take that into account when you're saying that you're protecting

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Speaker 3: only one out of a million or one out of

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Speaker 3: three million kids for something that you're giving to all

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Speaker 3: of these kids. So I don't think it's unreasonable to

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Speaker 3: have those discussions. That's what they decided when the medical

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Speaker 3: community gets upset. They're looking at just the benefits, just

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Speaker 3: the kids that are protected. But that's not the only

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Speaker 3: thing in the decision tree here, and we have to

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Speaker 3: get back to at risk versus benefit analysis and we

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Speaker 3: just haven't been. I don't know why medicine doesn't want

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Speaker 3: to do that. I don't want understand, but.

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Speaker 2: Just to be clear, so for the audience's sake, h

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Speaker 2: doctor Walsh, I mean you prefer gator or what wash it?

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Speaker 3: Okay, I don't care.

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Speaker 2: Would you describe yourself as anti.

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Speaker 3: Vax Absolutely not. I mean you can ask any patient

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Speaker 3: that's been in my office recently that has gotten a vaccine.

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Speaker 3: I believe in informed consent. I believe people should be

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Speaker 3: able to choose what they feel like it's best for them.

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Speaker 3: I have patients in my office that do the regular schedule,

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Speaker 3: some that do a slow schedule, some that don't do it.

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Speaker 3: We have discussions, we talk about what we know and

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Speaker 3: what we don't know, and then they come up with

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Speaker 3: that decision. I've never forced anybody to do anything.

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Speaker 2: Got it. I just want to just establishing the record here.

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Speaker 2: So Aaron so your civil rights attorney. I found it interesting,

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Speaker 2: just the little things I'm picking up as the layman

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Speaker 2: here where technically it wasn't mandated to get the het

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Speaker 2: B shot.

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Speaker 4: But I don't.

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Speaker 2: Feel like and I'm trying to remember back to my

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Speaker 2: own experience. I don't now my baby. My kids were

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Speaker 2: born in in Californi, so maybe it's different. I don't know,

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Speaker 2: but I don't remember feeling like there was much informed

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Speaker 2: consent with HEPBE. It was just kind of done. And

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Speaker 2: is there a civil rights component to this? You were

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Speaker 2: just at ASIP. You literally flew here I think yesterday,

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Speaker 2: you came back yesterday this morning, so you were in

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Speaker 2: and around this whole debate that was ongoing. So give

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Speaker 2: give us the hep BE story from your vantage point,

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Speaker 2: and are there civil rights implications to this?

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Speaker 4: Sure? I'll add one data point on the safety side,

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Speaker 4: I've never heard or I'm not aware of a single

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Speaker 4: baby that's ever died from heppy on the first day

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Speaker 4: of life. But I can tell you definitively that babies

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Speaker 4: have died on the first day of life from the

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Speaker 4: HEPTBAVA shot. Okay, So including one that was adjudicated not

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Speaker 4: long ago in something called the Vaccine Inatry Compensation Program,

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Speaker 4: which is the federal program where you can get compensation

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Speaker 4: if you're injured by vaccine, and there was a baby

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Speaker 4: that was adjudicated as having died from they have be

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Speaker 4: show on the first day life. Also another just quick

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Speaker 4: data point I'll go to the civil rights question is

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Speaker 4: the very first hepatitized BV vaccine was in nineteen eighty one.

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Speaker 4: It was based it was actually a maid using the

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Speaker 4: plasma the blood of those who are chronic hepatitis B carriers.

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Speaker 4: There were under three hundred deaths in America of hepatitis

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Speaker 4: B in nineteen eighty We are now well over fifteen

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Speaker 4: hundred deaths a year and hepathetis be Okay, so we

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Speaker 4: haven't actually gotten down immortality, which is an interesting data point.

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Speaker 2: Do you know what's causing that increase.

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Speaker 4: I'll leave that, okay, But it's interesting because they always

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Speaker 4: talk about, well, you know, we have to reduce. Whenever

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Speaker 4: mortality goes down, they immediately attributed to the vaccine Moore

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Speaker 4: mortality goes up. Nobody wants to look. But let's leave

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Speaker 4: that aside. Let's let's put the data side. On the

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Speaker 4: civil rights side of things, there's absolutely a civil rights component.

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Speaker 4: Number one, we have endless cases where parents have provided

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Speaker 4: written notice to the hospital that they do not want

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Speaker 4: to hepatize V vaccine as part of their birth and

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Speaker 4: program in writing signed and the hospital does it. Anyway,

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Speaker 4: we probably have about over one hundred clients like that

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Speaker 4: at the firm right now. So my firm has over

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Speaker 4: one hundred folks, about over about fifty of them do

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Speaker 4: just vaccine related work. And one of the things we

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Speaker 4: do is this type of these cases where actually we've

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Speaker 4: started taking on these representations. They're supported by a group

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Speaker 4: called eye Can They Information in Action Network because they're

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Speaker 4: not very lucrative, so but a nonprofit has decided they

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Speaker 4: want to put a stop to this practice, and so

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Speaker 4: we've done those cases. There's another component too. We get

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Speaker 4: lots of calls from parents who are in they've just

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Speaker 4: given Birther and happiest moment of their lives, and they've

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Speaker 4: decided they don't want the shot, and the hospital is

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Speaker 4: telling them if they don't get it, they're gonna call

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Speaker 4: CPS on them.

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Speaker 2: No kidding, Yep, We've had that happen a few seyss

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Speaker 2: in Red States too. I mean, is it all across

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Speaker 2: the board, because you know, you think about red versus

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Speaker 2: Blue states, but it's actually like a medical establishment that

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Speaker 2: is very very keen on this.

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Speaker 4: We'll tell you it's interesting. I don't It really comes

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Speaker 4: down to whoever the attendant is in that moment. Sometimes

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Speaker 4: it's not even the hospital, it's not even the state

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Speaker 4: that matters. It's the attendant. Who is the attending physician

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Speaker 4: in that hospital in that moment. Are they in a

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Speaker 4: good mood, what's going on with them that day? It

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Speaker 4: really can come down to that.

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Speaker 3: It could be anybody that got a bad feeling about

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Speaker 3: the situation and then they all for whatever reason.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it just it strikes me that I do not

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Speaker 2: have a clear memory. And now with babies two and three,

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Speaker 2: so I've got three three kids, the second and the third,

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Speaker 2: I remember being very much more like queued in and

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Speaker 2: I was. I was aware of a lot more because

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Speaker 2: I had been through it once before, but especially that

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Speaker 2: on our oldest I can't remember even being given the option.

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Speaker 2: I can't remember at all now. On the third one,

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Speaker 2: I I successfully delayed the have B like a day though.

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Speaker 2: I mean it was like, you know, we don't ease

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Speaker 2: do that right now, and then they they harped on us.

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Speaker 2: So what I gonna throw Riley just really quick here,

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Speaker 2: because you are a mom, you're really in touch with

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Speaker 2: the MAHA community. Like, what are moms saying about the

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Speaker 2: heap Bey stuff.

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Speaker 5: It's honestly, it's fifty fifty. A lot of moms are saying,

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Speaker 5: I'm getting stuff from both sides. I don't know, you know,

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Speaker 5: I have The things that I'm reading online are scary.

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Speaker 5: I don't know how to interpret this. If you don't

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Speaker 5: have a science background, you don't do your research on

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Speaker 5: your own. Even if you do research on your own,

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Speaker 5: if you don't understand how to read and interpret a

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Speaker 5: clinical study, you may not know what's right and what's wrong,

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Speaker 5: or what you're being told.

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Speaker 3: It's all over the place.

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Speaker 5: I know. A lot of the issue is like with

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Speaker 5: birthing plans. I have a one year old, so obviously

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Speaker 5: I was. I had my birth and plan. Did it

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Speaker 5: change by the time the baby was born, but when

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Speaker 5: I walked in, of course that it happens. I made

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Speaker 5: sure that the hospital that I had was one hundred

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Speaker 5: percent agree with my birth plan, that they would accommodate

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Speaker 5: that no matter what. But there are a lot of

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Speaker 5: moms that are they're scared. They go in, they don't

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Speaker 5: know what to expect. If you've never had a baby,

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Speaker 5: you don't know.

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Speaker 3: What to expect.

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Speaker 5: You're reading all this stuff online, You're overwhelmed. You're already

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Speaker 5: stress because you're about to have a baby, let alone

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Speaker 5: going in and not knowing what you don't know because

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Speaker 5: you don't know what you don't know. One of the

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Speaker 5: things was is making sure that dad is always with baby,

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Speaker 5: because you're doing your own thing. You're having the baby.

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Speaker 5: But if that doctor takes that baby out, there's a

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Speaker 5: lot of parents that are concerned that my birth plan

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Speaker 5: may be this. But I don't one hundred percent trust

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Speaker 5: the establishment. I don't one hundred percent trust the doctors

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Speaker 5: or the hospital that they're not going to give my

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Speaker 5: kids something even though I have it in writing and

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Speaker 5: I've stated that I don't want this.

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Speaker 3: Well, I never left my kid's side in that for

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Speaker 3: a second.

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Speaker 5: My husband was with our baby from.

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Speaker 3: Day on, never for a second. Because they make mistakes

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Speaker 3: and they have their look like you said, that that's

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Speaker 3: the default, right, the default is to do all everything.

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Speaker 3: So and there's always nurse changes and shift changes, and

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Speaker 3: so you have to assume that they just by default

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Speaker 3: will do the things that are on their checklist. So

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Speaker 3: I agree fully.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, I mean do you get that a lot?

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Speaker 2: Where have you have you been litigating cases like that

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Speaker 2: where hospitals just can just defy a parent's birthplan.

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Speaker 4: Oh? Absolutely, we've settled them where hospitals have to pay

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Speaker 4: the parents. Absolutely we have. Like I said, we have

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Speaker 4: probably about a one hundred clients literally right now as

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Speaker 4: you as we sit here where my law firm is

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Speaker 4: handling their cases right now. So it happens all the

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Speaker 4: time because you know, and that's part of the issue

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Speaker 4: with the routine recommendation from ASIP, because when it's viewed

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Speaker 4: as routine, what does that mean there? That means that

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Speaker 4: they the medical community views it as everybody should get it.

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Speaker 4: And you know, you're right to inform consents sometimes goes

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Speaker 4: out the window, even apparently when you have it in writing.

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Speaker 2: So I just for the audience sake, a SIP stands

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Speaker 2: for Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices. Okay, so it's a

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Speaker 2: really powerful committee. Yes, it's within the CDC. And again

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Speaker 2: RFK Junior famously now notoriously whatever you want to got

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Speaker 2: it removed the seventeen sitting members of that and has

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Speaker 2: been replacing them. But you said before we came on

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Speaker 2: the air, So I just want to catch our audience

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Speaker 2: up that he's actually the people that have been appointed

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Speaker 2: to this board are pretty They're across the spectrum ideologically

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Speaker 2: when it comes to this stuff.

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Speaker 6: Oh.

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Speaker 4: Absolutely, If you watch an asappearing, you will hear quite

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Speaker 4: you will hear a diversity of opinion.

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Speaker 2: Well that's great, though, right, I mean it should be.

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Speaker 3: Well not everyone thinks that though. I mean have you

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Speaker 3: seen the tweets about him from Senator Cassidy.

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Speaker 2: Or about you?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean they were sing he shouldn't be there

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Speaker 3: because Bill Cassidy.

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Speaker 2: From Louisiana, who famously voted to impeach President Trump.

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Speaker 3: I mean there are many people that are saying that

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Speaker 3: he shouldn't be allowed to be there because he sues

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Speaker 3: and makes money off of vaccines a lawsuits and that

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Speaker 3: doesn't make any sense to me as a physician. It

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Speaker 3: just makes no logical sense whatsoever. All the vaccine companies

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Speaker 3: are there, They're always speaking. I mean, everybody has some

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Speaker 3: sort of conflict of interest, and you you want people

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Speaker 3: that know about vaccines, that work on vaccines. You want

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Speaker 3: the companies to be there. I mean you want them

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Speaker 3: to talk, You want to be able to grill them.

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Speaker 3: So why should you not be able to have somebody

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Speaker 3: who is thinking in different ways. It's absurd to say

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Speaker 3: that that's a conflict event just that couldn't be there.

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Speaker 4: Well, did you see my response in CNN? They covered

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Speaker 4: the exchange actually for the first week.

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Speaker 2: So are you on ACEIP No, I spoke before.

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Speaker 4: That's what I thought, okay, And so I was invited

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Speaker 4: to speak about the development of the childhood Schedule and Center.

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Speaker 4: Cassidy tweeted out that I'm you know something about how

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Speaker 4: I shouldn't have been invited because I make my living

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Speaker 4: is what he wrote, suing vaccine makers. So I tweeted back,

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Speaker 4: and I said, it's ironic you write that, because actually

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Speaker 4: I can't make my living swing vaccine makers because they

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Speaker 4: have immunity. Childhood vaccines are the only product in America,

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Speaker 4: literally the only one. As as four of us city

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Speaker 4: are in this room. Look around this room. We're surrounded

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Speaker 4: by thousands of manufactured products. On your way into this room. Okay,

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Speaker 4: for every one of them, you could see the company

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Speaker 4: on the basis that had they made that product safeter,

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Speaker 4: you or your child would not have died or gotten

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Speaker 4: seriously injured. Okay, So for extra penny, they could have

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Speaker 4: made the gas sank in your carnate explode. You could

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Speaker 4: sue them because it could have made it saver. If

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Speaker 4: this wall material could have been made safer, if it

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Speaker 4: didn't cause you cancer, you could sue them. The only

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Speaker 4: conduct you can't see for are vaccine since nineteeny six

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Speaker 4: because it's something called the National Tallet to Vaccine in

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Speaker 4: Duracked nineteen eighty six. So it Senator Cassidy says, I

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Speaker 4: make my living swing vaccine makers.

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Speaker 2: It's pretty ironic because it's Congress. We've got it up.

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Speaker 4: It's Congress that can you find my response? It's Congress

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Speaker 4: that that you know, eliminated that that right in nineteen

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Speaker 4: eighty six, precisely because of how much harm those vaccines

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Speaker 4: were causing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I have like a lot of questions,

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Speaker 2: so the let's get so before we move on. Actually,

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Speaker 2: I just want to make sure we're putting a pin

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Speaker 2: in this whole idea of the het BET. So it's

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Speaker 2: no longer universally recommended. What's that?

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Speaker 4: Only at birth?

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Speaker 2: At birth? Okay? So that's the question. So the follow

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Speaker 2: up questions are, do you get it on day one?

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Speaker 2: Do you get it on twenty days after you get

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Speaker 2: a month after you get it, two months after? Is

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Speaker 2: there is there a something more comfortable recommending?

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Speaker 3: Their recommendation now is two months or later, which generally

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Speaker 3: is what kids were doing anyways. If they didn't get

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Speaker 3: the vaccine at birth, they would get it at two months,

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Speaker 3: four months, and six months or any time after that.

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Speaker 2: Okay, And in generally speaking, that is much safer when

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Speaker 2: it comes to fevers, encephalitis or you know.

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Speaker 3: I mean, it's definitely safer if you get a fever

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Speaker 3: that you're older. But whether that makes the vaccine safer

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Speaker 3: or not, that's debatable. So that's something that should be studied.

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Speaker 3: But we haven't studied those differences to see whether it

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Speaker 3: is safer.

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Speaker 4: And the manufacturer's disclosure about cephalitis and selfalopathy don't distinguish

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Speaker 4: between age.

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Speaker 3: And in most of the safety research, I mean the

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Speaker 3: original safety research, which is really interesting and might get

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Speaker 3: us a little off topic, but was four to five

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Speaker 3: days of safety research, which is crazy days.

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Speaker 2: Yes, So I want to go back to something you said, doctor.

436
00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:04,879
Speaker 2: You said you don't mandate for any of your clients.

437
00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:08,240
Speaker 2: You give them essentially informed consent. You go back and forth.

438
00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:13,480
Speaker 2: So question might be don't vaccines at some point lose

439
00:21:13,520 --> 00:21:17,200
Speaker 2: their broader appeal or they're broader I guess upside, if

440
00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:21,040
Speaker 2: we don't have universal vaccine vaccination of some of these diseases,

441
00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:22,120
Speaker 2: you have to.

442
00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:25,080
Speaker 3: Go vaccine by vaccine on each of these because for

443
00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:26,760
Speaker 3: many of the vaccines, and this is something that you

444
00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:29,680
Speaker 3: don't realize unless you really look into it or think

445
00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:32,400
Speaker 3: about it, is that most of them don't protect the community.

446
00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:35,800
Speaker 3: They just protect you. So many of the diseases don't

447
00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:38,879
Speaker 3: have this community immunity that you're talking about. Some of

448
00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:42,720
Speaker 3: them do, I mean the measles vaccine certainly something, Yeah,

449
00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:44,280
Speaker 3: we can talk about that, but there are some more

450
00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:47,040
Speaker 3: than others. But the polio vaccine protects you. We'll being cough,

451
00:21:47,119 --> 00:21:49,600
Speaker 3: vaccine protects you. Many of the vaccines just protect you.

452
00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:52,960
Speaker 3: So it's not really about the community immunity like you're mentioning.

453
00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:54,840
Speaker 3: So it depends. Each one is a little bit different.

454
00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:59,000
Speaker 2: Anything you want to say about het be that we've missed,

455
00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:00,800
Speaker 2: because there's a whole bunch of other topics we can

456
00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:05,639
Speaker 2: get into. But I want to make sure you know,

457
00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:09,399
Speaker 2: there's so much that I can talk. Okay, what are

458
00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:09,919
Speaker 2: we missing?

459
00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:13,040
Speaker 4: I mean, I'll just build on what the dude doctor said,

460
00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:16,640
Speaker 4: which is the clinical trial relied upon to license. There

461
00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:19,760
Speaker 4: are two standalone hepatized B vaccines. One was licensed in

462
00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:22,560
Speaker 4: eighty six one eighty nine were COMAVAXHB, Indrux B whe

463
00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:25,520
Speaker 4: KOMMAVACSHP was licensed based on a clinical trial. And this

464
00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:28,960
Speaker 4: is what the doctor was talking about. When clinical trial

465
00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:32,600
Speaker 4: that monitored children for five days for safety after injection.

466
00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:34,840
Speaker 4: That's it. Five days. There were one hundred and forty

467
00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:37,160
Speaker 4: seven kids in no control group. That was the whole trial.

468
00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:41,720
Speaker 4: That's it. Okay, nothing else that is useless to determine

469
00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:42,679
Speaker 4: the safety of the product.

470
00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:45,920
Speaker 2: Who regulates these control groups in these you know, because

471
00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:48,200
Speaker 2: there's a lot of this going on right now. Alex

472
00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:52,560
Speaker 2: Bearenson has been talking about the COVID shots and the

473
00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:56,119
Speaker 2: clinical trials that were done for that, and he's basically

474
00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:59,439
Speaker 2: of the position that these companies are very good at

475
00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:04,000
Speaker 2: at rigging. He didn't use that word, but essentially they're

476
00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:04,840
Speaker 2: very good at these.

477
00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:06,480
Speaker 4: They're good at making money well, and they're good.

478
00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:08,760
Speaker 2: At these control groups or these clinical trials to make

479
00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:10,160
Speaker 2: sure they get the outcome they want.

480
00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:16,320
Speaker 4: Yes, for most drugs, okay, they normally have multi year

481
00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:20,840
Speaker 4: placeble control trials. Why because they're liable for the injuries

482
00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:22,920
Speaker 4: from drug products after they go to market, So they

483
00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:25,160
Speaker 4: want to make sure they don't lose money, and that's

484
00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:27,880
Speaker 4: what they're in business for. There's companies with business make money.

485
00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:29,280
Speaker 4: You have a retirement account, you got a four to

486
00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:32,160
Speaker 4: one K. You want the companies in your portfolio make money.

487
00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:35,000
Speaker 4: So does Wall Street, So does everybody that has stock, right,

488
00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:37,320
Speaker 4: so do the CEO, so does the board members. In fact,

489
00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:39,480
Speaker 4: you fire a company, you take matter your portfolio if

490
00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:41,479
Speaker 4: they weren't making money, right, So that's how they make

491
00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:44,399
Speaker 4: their decisions. Now. Normally, the interest to make money is

492
00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:47,080
Speaker 4: aligned with safety because if you put out of product's

493
00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:50,360
Speaker 4: not safe, you lose money and so. But with vaccines,

494
00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:52,480
Speaker 4: it's the only one that, as I noted, has that

495
00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:55,959
Speaker 4: immunity I talked about earlier. So the financial interest has

496
00:23:56,000 --> 00:24:00,160
Speaker 4: been inverted, okay, which is why for vaccine trials will

497
00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:03,600
Speaker 4: often see days or weeks of safety review, never a

498
00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:06,359
Speaker 4: polceible control for any of the routine injected vaccines, and

499
00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:09,480
Speaker 4: they're often underpowered, meaning not enough kids. So to answer

500
00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:10,800
Speaker 4: it was a long way to answer a question. But

501
00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:15,800
Speaker 4: to answer your question, FDA regulates these trials, okay, but

502
00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:19,320
Speaker 4: it's the companies that conduct them. Why would the FDA

503
00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:24,520
Speaker 4: accept the trial that short? That's because there's a drug division,

504
00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:28,159
Speaker 4: there's a vaccine division, and if you've interacted with the

505
00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:31,560
Speaker 4: vaccine division, they are believers in these products.

506
00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:36,439
Speaker 2: Even during rfk's ten yures. So far, has it changed?

507
00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:37,600
Speaker 2: Is there more skepticism?

508
00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:42,240
Speaker 4: Vine Prosad, who is the head of ciber the which

509
00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:44,960
Speaker 4: has the vaccine division at the FDA. You saw that

510
00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:48,120
Speaker 4: memo he released that was leaked where he talked about

511
00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:48,920
Speaker 4: the ten kids dying.

512
00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:51,000
Speaker 2: I don't know if you've read it read it, but.

513
00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:55,840
Speaker 4: He is trying to reform. He is facing mass descent

514
00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:58,960
Speaker 4: and opposition. Look, if you sat an FDA for the

515
00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:02,119
Speaker 4: last few decks, AIDS anybody in there, and you licensed

516
00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:07,119
Speaker 4: these vaccines based on these kinds of uh clinical trials

517
00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:11,480
Speaker 4: that in no way could have confirmed affirmed safety, you

518
00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:15,080
Speaker 4: must have incredible cognitive dissonance when faced with those without reality. Yeah,

519
00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:16,080
Speaker 4: they just assume safety.

520
00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:19,120
Speaker 3: And can I just say that I think that your

521
00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:23,000
Speaker 3: question again, it's so reasonable, and my question is why

522
00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:25,320
Speaker 3: they would allow that like that? That what doesn't make sense?

523
00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:28,320
Speaker 3: And that's when when you have sued them and for

524
00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:30,280
Speaker 3: FOIA request to find out if there are more information,

525
00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:33,359
Speaker 3: because it doesn't make sense that we would give a

526
00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:37,359
Speaker 3: vaccine to a newborn unless we had the very best

527
00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:40,639
Speaker 3: safety data possible. That doesn't make you anti vax. It

528
00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:42,520
Speaker 3: just means if you're going to put a new vaccine

529
00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:43,760
Speaker 3: on the schedule, if you're going to give a new

530
00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:46,200
Speaker 3: vaccine to my baby, I want to know that it's

531
00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:49,040
Speaker 3: been studied in thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands of kid

532
00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:52,639
Speaker 3: against an inert placebo, followed forward and looked at to

533
00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:55,679
Speaker 3: see what the safety profile is. How is that anti anything?

534
00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:57,520
Speaker 3: That doesn't mean that they shouldn't get it, but we

535
00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:00,040
Speaker 3: should be sure that it's safe. Before you give to

536
00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:02,320
Speaker 3: a healthy newborn, it's not the same thing as giving

537
00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:03,120
Speaker 3: to somebody who's sick.

538
00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:08,560
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559
00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:09,399
Speaker 2: just tell you how I'm hearing this as the layman

560
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:13,320
Speaker 2: in this conversation, even more so than Riley. I'm hearing

561
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:18,160
Speaker 2: unless you are in a very you know, high risk group,

562
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:21,159
Speaker 2: it doesn't sound to me like this is something that

563
00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:24,280
Speaker 2: I would be inclined or rushing to give my child,

564
00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:26,960
Speaker 2: at least immediately. Maybe you could talk about two months,

565
00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:31,400
Speaker 2: six months, first year maybe, but it doesn't. That's basically

566
00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:34,879
Speaker 2: where I'm landing on this hearing the intel. Now, I

567
00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:37,360
Speaker 2: just want to make sure that everybody knows we invited

568
00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:43,560
Speaker 2: doctor Paul Offitt to this discussion, and Riley reached out kindly,

569
00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:48,600
Speaker 2: and it was I would say, not a welcome invite.

570
00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:51,639
Speaker 2: Was concerned that we were going to be confusing the

571
00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:56,359
Speaker 2: audience and you know, maybe causing more vaccine hesitancy or

572
00:27:56,600 --> 00:28:00,760
Speaker 2: anti VAXX sentiment. But we did want to at his perspective,

573
00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:04,080
Speaker 2: and he is I would say, much more of an

574
00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:11,719
Speaker 2: adherent to you know, the medical establishment's view. I think

575
00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:14,520
Speaker 2: that's safe to say, the wider medical establisher's view about

576
00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:17,159
Speaker 2: vaccine efficacy and the need for vaccine. So we did

577
00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:20,399
Speaker 2: want him to be on on this conversation. But regardless,

578
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:23,160
Speaker 2: I don't think you would not describe yourself as anti

579
00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:24,240
Speaker 2: vax would you, like?

580
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:26,960
Speaker 4: I mean, look, all I can use is a dictionary

581
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:30,760
Speaker 4: for the use of words, Okay, sure, And under Webster's

582
00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:34,000
Speaker 4: dictionary defines anti vaxi as somebody who opposes mandating one

583
00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:36,680
Speaker 4: or more vaccines or receiving one or more. So under

584
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:39,560
Speaker 4: that definition, most of the country is anti VAXs because

585
00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:42,880
Speaker 4: a majority opposed mandating COVID vaccine, flea shots and some

586
00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:45,120
Speaker 4: of the other ones and so forth. So you know,

587
00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:48,400
Speaker 4: I mean, I guess it matters what definition you're using,

588
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:50,800
Speaker 4: whether or not somebody's anti vax you oppose them a

589
00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:53,640
Speaker 4: COVID vaccine mandate, Yes, then you're anti VAXs, quarter Mirriam

590
00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:55,320
Speaker 4: Webster totally, So there you go. All right.

591
00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:58,680
Speaker 2: So, but but my point, I think the lay person

592
00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:01,880
Speaker 2: would think of it as you know, you're not against

593
00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:02,600
Speaker 2: all vaccines.

594
00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:06,680
Speaker 4: I'm not four or against any product. They're just a product.

595
00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:10,840
Speaker 4: I'm not pro or anti car I'm not I'm not

596
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:12,720
Speaker 4: I don't think cars are good or bad. They're just cars.

597
00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:13,880
Speaker 4: I don't think there's microphone.

598
00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:16,960
Speaker 2: Personally, I'm not pro anti I personally think cars are good.

599
00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:21,080
Speaker 2: But I do acknowledge the cars that blow up are good. No,

600
00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:23,280
Speaker 2: so those are bad, those are bad. So some are good,

601
00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:25,680
Speaker 2: some are bad. Yeah yeah, okay, so but but that's

602
00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:28,400
Speaker 2: a I get what you're doing. I get what you're where.

603
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:29,840
Speaker 2: You know with this, it's I just think of them

604
00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:33,200
Speaker 2: as products, honest, right, But the products can have benefits here,

605
00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:36,040
Speaker 2: and if you become convinced the benefit out weighs the cost,

606
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:37,800
Speaker 2: you would probably I'll.

607
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:39,800
Speaker 4: Answer the heart of the question. Okay. The heart of

608
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:43,120
Speaker 4: the question is this on hepatitis B. So if you're gonna,

609
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:45,320
Speaker 4: for example, really think about hepatitis BE and you're trying

610
00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:46,920
Speaker 4: to decide whether to take it, here's the way I

611
00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:49,760
Speaker 4: would do it. Okay, If a baby is born to

612
00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:52,840
Speaker 4: a non Heppie positive mother, I would say, Okay, how

613
00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:57,800
Speaker 4: many the needed number needed to treat? How many babies

614
00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:00,400
Speaker 4: of help non hepatities? You back to many mothers do

615
00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:02,480
Speaker 4: you need to inject but to prevent one case of

616
00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:05,800
Speaker 4: chronic can be? Okay, that's where you start that's the benefit.

617
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:08,640
Speaker 4: That's the number you need. What is that number depending

618
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:12,600
Speaker 4: on where you look, some say millions, some hundreds of thousands, okay, benefit.

619
00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:14,720
Speaker 4: Now what's the risk?

620
00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:18,320
Speaker 2: How many out of because that's rare. Yeah, so say

621
00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:20,840
Speaker 2: so that's rare. Say the number is a million, how

622
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:25,280
Speaker 2: many are then getting fevers or getting some other or getting.

623
00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:27,240
Speaker 3: Or that's the right question. That's the question that we

624
00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:27,840
Speaker 3: need answered.

625
00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:32,160
Speaker 4: Well, there are there are data, there are there are

626
00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:36,880
Speaker 4: there are data that reflect that the risk in that

627
00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:41,560
Speaker 4: instance might be greater than the benefit. Now, I don't

628
00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:43,560
Speaker 4: make metal decisions for other I mean every should make

629
00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:45,320
Speaker 4: their own choices at the end of the day. Really,

630
00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:47,240
Speaker 4: my goal is just make sure everybody has the right

631
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:49,120
Speaker 4: and the ability to do that as a civil individual

632
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:53,280
Speaker 4: rights you know, as an attorney, that's my goal. Not

633
00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:55,400
Speaker 4: to do that mathematical. But when you do do that,

634
00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:58,400
Speaker 4: when you do do those numbers, you know, that's the

635
00:30:58,440 --> 00:30:59,400
Speaker 4: way you should go about it.

636
00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:01,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I find I do find it interesting. And

637
00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:03,000
Speaker 2: I think this is a question that a lot of

638
00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:09,400
Speaker 2: people have, is why this forceful sort of you know,

639
00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:12,200
Speaker 2: this this mandate culture when it comes to vaccines. And

640
00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:15,080
Speaker 2: I think Blake on our team who tends to be

641
00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:19,240
Speaker 2: a little contrarian in almost everything, but it is well made,

642
00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:21,840
Speaker 2: this sort of community immunity idea that we want to

643
00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:24,840
Speaker 2: get these these diseases completely out of the population. Where

644
00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:27,920
Speaker 2: that's polio, which is probably the most famous example. Smallpox

645
00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:31,960
Speaker 2: we talked about before we started rolling here, and you

646
00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:34,959
Speaker 2: had some nuance with smallpox. But polio, for example, right,

647
00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:39,920
Speaker 2: we eradicated polio essentially. Maybe I'm wrong on that currently,

648
00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:41,520
Speaker 2: but that was that was always what it was sold

649
00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:43,760
Speaker 2: to us. You know, we started vaccinating for polio and

650
00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:47,200
Speaker 2: we got it out of the community. You're saying that

651
00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:51,920
Speaker 2: is only a consideration on certain illnesses, maybe is that

652
00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:54,160
Speaker 2: what the community immunity?

653
00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:57,040
Speaker 3: So even for polio, the original polio, the oral polio

654
00:31:57,200 --> 00:31:59,480
Speaker 3: that does protect other people in theory that one that

655
00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:01,760
Speaker 3: we use today, the inactivity doesn't. It just protects you.

656
00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:05,920
Speaker 3: The oral polio was giving more people polio than actual

657
00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:08,000
Speaker 3: polio that we had, So that's why they stopped using it.

658
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:12,760
Speaker 3: Because you can what about measles, So measles is a

659
00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:15,040
Speaker 3: different case. I think measles is probably the most difficult

660
00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:18,200
Speaker 3: of the vaccines in terms of that kind of discussion,

661
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:20,560
Speaker 3: because we know that measles is extremely contagious and kids

662
00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:22,480
Speaker 3: can get sick. And we also know that vaccine works

663
00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:25,720
Speaker 3: very well and you do get some community immunity if

664
00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:28,480
Speaker 3: you vaccinate enough people. So I think that that is

665
00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:30,840
Speaker 3: all the diseases. Measles is probably the one where that

666
00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:31,920
Speaker 3: discussion makes the most sense.

667
00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:33,520
Speaker 2: Can I ask a question like, I don't know which

668
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:36,080
Speaker 2: questions are dumb here or not? And guys, you are

669
00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:40,080
Speaker 2: literally in the thick of these discussions, and so I feel,

670
00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:43,680
Speaker 2: you know, please forget my insecurity about some of this question.

671
00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:45,480
Speaker 2: But I have to believe if I'm having some of

672
00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:47,920
Speaker 2: these questions that like our audience is having the same ones.

673
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:52,000
Speaker 2: So my mom did like a measles party when she

674
00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:55,600
Speaker 2: was like where they literally tried to just get everybody

675
00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:58,040
Speaker 2: sick so that they would have the immunity and they

676
00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:00,520
Speaker 2: get it done with. And I remember doing chicken pox.

677
00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:03,160
Speaker 2: It was like there was no there was no chicken

678
00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:05,920
Speaker 2: pox vaccine when I was a kid. So these kind

679
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:10,960
Speaker 2: of things. So, so how dangerous is mes? Are the measles?

680
00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:11,280
Speaker 4: Uh?

681
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:15,240
Speaker 2: And and do we do you think that the I

682
00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:16,680
Speaker 2: mean again, I don't want to put you in a position.

683
00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:19,640
Speaker 2: You know, you're sort of you're open, open handed, like

684
00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:21,800
Speaker 2: do you recommend them for people the vaccine?

685
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:22,000
Speaker 7: Do you?

686
00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:24,680
Speaker 2: Or do you think we this old way of doing

687
00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:27,160
Speaker 2: things was actually better in some ways, like it is

688
00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:30,600
Speaker 2: a natural, naturally gained immunity better than a vaccine immunity.

689
00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:33,560
Speaker 2: General questions, your questions are great.

690
00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:36,000
Speaker 3: You should understand that these are the questions we get,

691
00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:38,160
Speaker 3: or certainly I get, every single day, so they are

692
00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:42,400
Speaker 3: excellent questions. In terms of measles, it is really important

693
00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:47,000
Speaker 3: to understand the epidemiology of measles. From way back in

694
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:49,520
Speaker 3: the day. People were not afraid of measles a long

695
00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:52,920
Speaker 3: time ago. The problem with measles, the concern around measles

696
00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:54,640
Speaker 3: is that it's very contagious. It's one of the most

697
00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:57,680
Speaker 3: contagious diseases that we have. So if nobody is vaccinated,

698
00:33:57,720 --> 00:34:00,200
Speaker 3: it's going to go through the community. Everybody's going to

699
00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:01,920
Speaker 3: get it. Most people in a room, like nine out

700
00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:03,920
Speaker 3: of ten people are going to get measles. So a

701
00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:07,240
Speaker 3: few kids will get really sick, and that's something to understand.

702
00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:09,960
Speaker 3: Back before they were vaccine, some will die, yes, some

703
00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:13,200
Speaker 3: will die. So before Reckon data, there were about three

704
00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:16,320
Speaker 3: to five hundred deaths a year. Back before measles, So

705
00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:18,960
Speaker 3: there are very very few deaths but not zero, And

706
00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:21,920
Speaker 3: the biggest concern for measles is pneumonia. A lot of

707
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:23,640
Speaker 3: kids do go to the hospital. There is about a

708
00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:27,200
Speaker 3: one to twenty risk for pneumonia and for searus complications.

709
00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:28,640
Speaker 3: So obviously we don't want any kid to go to

710
00:34:28,680 --> 00:34:30,759
Speaker 3: the hospital. We don't want any kid to die. These

711
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:33,480
Speaker 3: are things that are possible, so that's something that people

712
00:34:33,640 --> 00:34:35,759
Speaker 3: do need to understand. And the vaccine, if you get

713
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:38,400
Speaker 3: both of them, it's about ninety seven percent effective, so

714
00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:41,839
Speaker 3: that's pretty good effectiveness. The question then becomes, Okay, at

715
00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:42,439
Speaker 3: what cost?

716
00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:45,839
Speaker 2: Yes, I'm going to throw to this the attorney here,

717
00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:50,720
Speaker 2: so because you are you litigating now or have measles

718
00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:54,640
Speaker 2: cases MMR vaccin cases? Sure, okay, so I can give you.

719
00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:56,520
Speaker 4: A sense Yeah, yeah, different. I mean to answer your

720
00:34:56,560 --> 00:35:01,200
Speaker 4: initial question, which from an I I will build upon

721
00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:04,720
Speaker 4: what was just said with regards to getting measles versus

722
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:09,080
Speaker 4: getting the vaccine. So Joel's correct. They were about three

723
00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:11,600
Speaker 4: to five hundred deaths a year leading up to nineteen

724
00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:13,960
Speaker 4: sixty three, when the first measles vaccine was introduced.

725
00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:16,080
Speaker 2: Sixty three sixty three, first meals vaccine.

726
00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:19,960
Speaker 4: Ever, in the United States, between nineteen hundred and nineteen

727
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:22,480
Speaker 4: sixty three, measles mortality United States to climb by over

728
00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:23,240
Speaker 4: ninety eight percent.

729
00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:26,480
Speaker 2: Climbed, declined, declined, interesting, declined.

730
00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:29,520
Speaker 4: So you had over a ninety eight percent decline in

731
00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:32,600
Speaker 4: mortality for measles in the United States to nineteen hundred

732
00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:35,360
Speaker 4: nineteen sixty three. That's just the CDC mortality data. You

733
00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:39,479
Speaker 4: know what didn't cause that decline in mortality? Measles vaccine? Yeah, exactly,

734
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:40,080
Speaker 4: couldn't exist.

735
00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:42,640
Speaker 2: It didn't exist, I know, so sometimes people it takes

736
00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:43,160
Speaker 2: some tracking.

737
00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:47,720
Speaker 4: Okay, so what did cause it? We could probably ascribe

738
00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:51,520
Speaker 4: it to public health measures, even meane. Public health authorities

739
00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:54,120
Speaker 4: probably could take credit for a lot of it. They

740
00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:58,120
Speaker 4: never do they take other than appointing to vaccines. But

741
00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:01,759
Speaker 4: it's probably better sanitations, better clean water, better nutrition, go

742
00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:02,479
Speaker 4: down the list.

743
00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:04,880
Speaker 2: Okay, Well, when they get sick, they're probably had more

744
00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:07,360
Speaker 2: advanced care, all the things.

745
00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:11,839
Speaker 4: Better acute care, absolutely right. Because of the secondary effects. Now,

746
00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:18,120
Speaker 4: measles vaccine can prevent transmission, so anybody who's got the

747
00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:21,439
Speaker 4: vaccine is less likely to get clinical measles, and hence

748
00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:25,399
Speaker 4: they're less likely to get harm from measles, But that's

749
00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:26,880
Speaker 4: not the end of the story in my opinion, for

750
00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:30,160
Speaker 4: the following reason. First of all, if we didn't vaccinate

751
00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:33,200
Speaker 4: with that mortality curve continued to decline, mortality from all

752
00:36:33,239 --> 00:36:35,840
Speaker 4: of these infectities were declining, other than polia was going up.

753
00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:37,600
Speaker 4: Was the only one since the nine hundred for the

754
00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:40,960
Speaker 4: most part, okay. And so when mortality have continued decline,

755
00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:43,040
Speaker 4: that's first of all, so can we ascribe all of

756
00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:46,560
Speaker 4: that reduction mortality to measles? Remember musles mortality was going

757
00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:50,240
Speaker 4: down as the population was climbing from nineteen hundred. Okay,

758
00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:54,719
Speaker 4: So even as population continue to climb, mortality likely would

759
00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:57,080
Speaker 4: have continued to going down. So but I assume some

760
00:36:57,239 --> 00:37:00,640
Speaker 4: of the reduction mortality can be ascribed to the vaccine. Fine,

761
00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:03,960
Speaker 4: but let me save you the flip side. Those that

762
00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:06,879
Speaker 4: have had measles. Studies have shown how far less depths

763
00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:11,359
Speaker 4: from cardiovascular disease, cancers, and other issues. A prospective one

764
00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:15,239
Speaker 4: hundred thousand person study in Japan meaning forward looking for

765
00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:18,600
Speaker 4: twenty two years, that tracked one hundred thousand people in

766
00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:21,440
Speaker 4: Japan for twenty two years found So this was a

767
00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:23,840
Speaker 4: you know, this was a very serious study by institution,

768
00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:27,320
Speaker 4: by an institution there and you know, by the government

769
00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:29,719
Speaker 4: of Japan and major university there. And what have found

770
00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:34,440
Speaker 4: is that those that had had measles and momps had naturally,

771
00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:38,600
Speaker 4: naturally naturally got it, naturally got it compared to those

772
00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:43,000
Speaker 4: who didn't had a twenty percent statistically significant decline immortality

773
00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:45,080
Speaker 4: from cardiovascal disease.

774
00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:48,120
Speaker 2: So this is a point that I've heard and from

775
00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:51,320
Speaker 2: a very prominent person. I was just talking to them recently,

776
00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:55,640
Speaker 2: and they their whole This person would proudly describe themselves

777
00:37:55,640 --> 00:37:59,600
Speaker 2: as anti vax, like, very proud. And the rationale for

778
00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:03,279
Speaker 2: this person was that when you get diseases naturally and

779
00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:07,000
Speaker 2: your body overcomes them, that you have a stronger immunity

780
00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:11,200
Speaker 2: for everything. And this person's con perspective on it, and

781
00:38:11,239 --> 00:38:13,719
Speaker 2: I'll probably throw it to you. Either of you can

782
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:17,600
Speaker 2: answer this actually was that it was It wasn't just cardiovascular,

783
00:38:17,640 --> 00:38:20,040
Speaker 2: It wasn't just against that same disease in the future.

784
00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:21,960
Speaker 2: It was against like things like cancer. This was this

785
00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:24,799
Speaker 2: person's well that's what I'll study show, Okay, So I'm

786
00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:27,320
Speaker 2: not speaking out of turn here. This was not completely

787
00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:30,480
Speaker 2: is there? So for example, COVID, yes, if you got

788
00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:32,880
Speaker 2: a natural immunity, you got covid, and then your you

789
00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:33,880
Speaker 2: overcame it.

790
00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:34,600
Speaker 4: Uh.

791
00:38:34,719 --> 00:38:36,000
Speaker 2: It didn't mean that you weren't going to get it

792
00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:37,399
Speaker 2: in the future, but perhaps your body.

793
00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:38,040
Speaker 4: I mean, I got it.

794
00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:40,920
Speaker 2: I got the og COVID in twenty twenty, and I

795
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:43,319
Speaker 2: think I got it one more time. And the first

796
00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:45,879
Speaker 2: time was rough. Second time was like a piece of cake.

797
00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:48,520
Speaker 2: But also the virus is getting weaker. But so I

798
00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:50,200
Speaker 2: don't really know what to make of that, but I

799
00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:52,880
Speaker 2: will say that their perspective on it was that you

800
00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:55,319
Speaker 2: should let your body fight these things. Stop injecting our

801
00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:57,440
Speaker 2: kids with all this stuff like chicken pox vaccine and

802
00:38:57,520 --> 00:39:01,160
Speaker 2: measles vaccine. Let them get over it. That's that's person's perspective.

803
00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:02,600
Speaker 2: I just I'm thrown it out there because I bet

804
00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:03,960
Speaker 2: a lot of people have heard this.

805
00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:06,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, there are different perspectives on it. I think,

806
00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:08,080
Speaker 3: you know, one of the main things to consider the

807
00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:11,320
Speaker 3: point of a vaccine, theoretically would be to protect you

808
00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:13,719
Speaker 3: from getting the disease, protect you from dying or getting

809
00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:15,360
Speaker 3: very sick from a disease. So I think we have

810
00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:17,719
Speaker 3: to keep that in mind because the only people that

811
00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:20,840
Speaker 3: survive are the ones that can have this protection. Right,

812
00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:22,680
Speaker 3: So that's the counter argument. You have to survive the

813
00:39:22,719 --> 00:39:25,920
Speaker 3: disease to have some sort of you know, potential other benefits.

814
00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:29,040
Speaker 3: Also with measles, there is immune amnesia. That's one of

815
00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:30,440
Speaker 3: the things that is right.

816
00:39:30,520 --> 00:39:35,600
Speaker 2: It like wipes your your uh, your immunity memory.

817
00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:36,400
Speaker 4: I'll disagree with that.

818
00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:36,759
Speaker 8: I don't.

819
00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:38,279
Speaker 4: I don't think those studies.

820
00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:40,120
Speaker 3: Are sure, but that that is one of the things

821
00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:42,359
Speaker 3: that is certainly pointed to in the literature as something

822
00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:44,680
Speaker 3: that people talk to. So it's debated, you know, whether

823
00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:46,919
Speaker 3: it could be beneficial or not. But those are again

824
00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:48,759
Speaker 3: the right questions, right, those are the questions where we

825
00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:51,839
Speaker 3: should be looking this. We shouldn't be hearing, oh, there

826
00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:53,920
Speaker 3: might be some sort of protective benefits and saying, ah,

827
00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:56,560
Speaker 3: that's crazy. You know, we need to understand those things.

828
00:39:56,600 --> 00:39:58,160
Speaker 3: We need to look at the whole picture and weigh

829
00:39:58,520 --> 00:40:01,320
Speaker 3: those things out to see what the long term benefits.

830
00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:04,399
Speaker 3: We don't necessarily understand everything about this world and about

831
00:40:04,520 --> 00:40:06,959
Speaker 3: diseases and what potential benefits, but there might.

832
00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:08,839
Speaker 2: Be It is interesting though, right if you go back

833
00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:10,960
Speaker 2: to like the there's that famous episode of the Brady

834
00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:13,360
Speaker 2: Bunch where they all just get measles and it's like

835
00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:18,000
Speaker 2: a laugh track, you know, And it's just like, culturally,

836
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:22,480
Speaker 2: we have gone very far from like, oh the housekeeper

837
00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:26,200
Speaker 2: gets gets measles and everybody laughs about it and she's

838
00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:28,560
Speaker 2: you know, she's got red bumps or whatever, to now

839
00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:32,120
Speaker 2: where like kids are gonna die RFK is and it

840
00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:34,560
Speaker 2: sounds like it's true three to five hundred a year.

841
00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:36,440
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't want to make light of that,

842
00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:40,040
Speaker 2: but it is like a weird and cultural difference. How

843
00:40:40,120 --> 00:40:42,839
Speaker 2: many kids die of chicken pox? Very few? Right about

844
00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:43,439
Speaker 2: before the back.

845
00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:45,120
Speaker 4: They estimated about one hundred something a year.

846
00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:46,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, so it's very few.

847
00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:49,200
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't even remember being worried about that.

848
00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:51,719
Speaker 2: Now there was the Samoa case though, right that the

849
00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:55,440
Speaker 2: RFK has gotten into some hot water with get blamed for.

850
00:40:56,960 --> 00:40:57,880
Speaker 4: Is not the United States?

851
00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:01,120
Speaker 2: Okay, So you think that that is more or because

852
00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:02,920
Speaker 2: it's like a dozen kids died or something like that

853
00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:03,719
Speaker 2: in the South.

854
00:41:04,200 --> 00:41:05,800
Speaker 3: No, it was more than that, was it?

855
00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:08,920
Speaker 2: Okay? So however, many dozens dozens of kids.

856
00:41:08,840 --> 00:41:10,799
Speaker 4: Something about Samoa doesn't make a lot of sense because

857
00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:13,200
Speaker 4: one in four and fifty thousand Americans died of measles

858
00:41:13,239 --> 00:41:16,120
Speaker 4: before there was a vaccine. It came out of those

859
00:41:16,200 --> 00:41:18,840
Speaker 4: infected about one in ten thousand. The numbers in Samoa

860
00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:23,120
Speaker 4: just don't match any any data from historically. I don't

861
00:41:23,160 --> 00:41:25,839
Speaker 4: know exactly what happened there, but it doesn't match any

862
00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:29,000
Speaker 4: of the actual data, real world data that exists in

863
00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:30,880
Speaker 4: the United States from any time period.

864
00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:38,359
Speaker 2: That's fascinating. You had a thought on this, No, it's fine,

865
00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:39,960
Speaker 2: Well I did, but.

866
00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:42,080
Speaker 3: I guess I do.

867
00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:47,440
Speaker 5: As far as how often is are the data that

868
00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:52,280
Speaker 5: is being used for vaccines? How often are the studies

869
00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:55,680
Speaker 5: done in another country and not in the US, or

870
00:41:55,680 --> 00:41:56,800
Speaker 5: are they all in the US?

871
00:41:57,600 --> 00:41:58,520
Speaker 3: They're not all in the US.

872
00:41:59,719 --> 00:42:01,440
Speaker 2: The able accept foreign studies.

873
00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:04,200
Speaker 4: Are you talking, well, are you talking about clinical trust

874
00:42:04,239 --> 00:42:07,080
Speaker 4: a license? You're talking about post licensere safety studies. Post

875
00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:08,279
Speaker 4: license safe studies.

876
00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:11,799
Speaker 2: Ironically happen host Licensure' sorry, is that what you're saying?

877
00:42:12,360 --> 00:42:16,160
Speaker 4: Post licensure after the vaccine is licensed. They often do

878
00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:20,400
Speaker 4: studies outside of the US. Actually, Denmark's a place they

879
00:42:20,440 --> 00:42:22,640
Speaker 4: often do a lot of them, like the recent aluminum study.

880
00:42:22,719 --> 00:42:23,279
Speaker 7: And why is that?

881
00:42:24,239 --> 00:42:28,680
Speaker 2: Uh well, uh, well, be honest, be honest.

882
00:42:29,200 --> 00:42:33,040
Speaker 4: Well, okay, so they often do them in Denmark. They

883
00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:35,319
Speaker 4: say the reason they I'll tell you what they say,

884
00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:37,759
Speaker 4: and I'll tell I'll tell you my personal view. So

885
00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:40,640
Speaker 4: they say they do them in Denmark because Denmark has

886
00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:44,759
Speaker 4: a centralized medical care system with robust tracking of vaccination

887
00:42:44,960 --> 00:42:47,480
Speaker 4: and other metrics, and so they say they can do

888
00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:53,279
Speaker 4: these studies there more readily on vaccines vaccine safety. Uh,

889
00:42:54,080 --> 00:42:56,440
Speaker 4: I would say the other side of it is, uh,

890
00:42:56,600 --> 00:43:00,239
Speaker 4: they only have they have a tiny vaccine s edule

891
00:43:00,239 --> 00:43:03,560
Speaker 4: compared to the US. So there's nine vaccines that are

892
00:43:03,640 --> 00:43:05,880
Speaker 4: not on their schedule that are on the US schedule.

893
00:43:06,400 --> 00:43:08,920
Speaker 4: So kind of a better place to study vaccine safety

894
00:43:08,920 --> 00:43:12,279
Speaker 4: when you're giving nine less I'm not talking shots, I'm

895
00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:14,279
Speaker 4: talking nine less different vaccines. I can tell you the

896
00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:17,719
Speaker 4: whole Danish schedule super easy. At three, five and twelve months.

897
00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:21,600
Speaker 4: You get one hex availed and which is basically dtp

898
00:43:21,719 --> 00:43:27,600
Speaker 4: hib IPv and and one other I'm trying to do

899
00:43:27,719 --> 00:43:30,360
Speaker 4: fast two dose MMR detap agan of five years and

900
00:43:30,400 --> 00:43:33,160
Speaker 4: then HPV. That's it. That's the whole schedule. That's nothing

901
00:43:33,239 --> 00:43:34,040
Speaker 4: compared to the US.

902
00:43:34,280 --> 00:43:35,880
Speaker 3: But if you're correlating that to.

903
00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:40,080
Speaker 5: Kids here in the US, that is not accurate.

904
00:43:40,200 --> 00:43:41,759
Speaker 4: It's not accurate. But that's what you, like you saw

905
00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:43,959
Speaker 4: that recent aluminum study they came out with that said

906
00:43:44,360 --> 00:43:47,440
Speaker 4: aluminum aage evants are safe and they studied them in Denmark.

907
00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:49,680
Speaker 4: Did you, I don't know if I didn't. It was

908
00:43:49,719 --> 00:43:51,520
Speaker 4: all over the news. It was used as to punch

909
00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:55,279
Speaker 4: against Bobby, against our Yeah. Yeah, I mean, but the

910
00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:57,319
Speaker 4: problem is that they excluded any kids that got more

911
00:43:57,400 --> 00:44:01,560
Speaker 4: than a certain amount of aluminum maagice. But the problem

912
00:44:01,640 --> 00:44:03,680
Speaker 4: is that every single kid in America gets that amount

913
00:44:04,120 --> 00:44:06,760
Speaker 4: if they study, if they follow the CDC schedules.

914
00:44:06,360 --> 00:44:08,320
Speaker 3: And they didn't have an unvaccinated group, which.

915
00:44:08,360 --> 00:44:10,319
Speaker 4: Well they did and then they kicked them out. Yeah

916
00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:13,400
Speaker 4: they had one initially, right, and then they and then

917
00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:14,160
Speaker 4: they merged it.

918
00:44:15,120 --> 00:44:19,000
Speaker 2: This is this is a one of the ingredients of

919
00:44:19,080 --> 00:44:22,640
Speaker 2: a lot of vaccines, right, So so it's American kids

920
00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:25,279
Speaker 2: presumably would get up much much more of this is

921
00:44:25,840 --> 00:44:29,320
Speaker 2: far more right, Okay, and it multiple times. Okay, So

922
00:44:29,480 --> 00:44:33,080
Speaker 2: you said the maybe we'd come back to that, but

923
00:44:33,440 --> 00:44:35,560
Speaker 2: you said the stated reason is that Denmark has the

924
00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:39,600
Speaker 2: centralized medical system. They track everything, it's really organized. What's

925
00:44:39,640 --> 00:44:41,160
Speaker 2: your opinion on why they do it there?

926
00:44:41,440 --> 00:44:46,040
Speaker 4: Oh? I thought I was transparent about my opinion. Okay, well,

927
00:44:46,520 --> 00:44:48,640
Speaker 4: I could read the line is that which is that

928
00:44:48,760 --> 00:44:52,239
Speaker 4: THEA which is that they're just so much fewer vaccines.

929
00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:55,319
Speaker 2: Okay, so it doesn't trigger the same yet, Yeah, you know.

930
00:44:55,320 --> 00:44:57,240
Speaker 4: How you know percent of kids get at V vaccine

931
00:44:57,280 --> 00:45:02,160
Speaker 4: in Denmark by eighteen years of age, basically zero point one.

932
00:45:02,480 --> 00:45:05,239
Speaker 4: They don't have HEPPY on their schedule. You can't even

933
00:45:05,360 --> 00:45:07,680
Speaker 4: get your kid a het VY vaccine in Denmark if

934
00:45:07,719 --> 00:45:10,200
Speaker 4: your mother is not heavy positive or you're not high risk.

935
00:45:10,680 --> 00:45:12,840
Speaker 4: My understanding is you can't even get it. So you

936
00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:15,920
Speaker 4: have point like one point zero one percent of kids

937
00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:17,920
Speaker 4: have hed B vaccine. Do you know what the head

938
00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:22,440
Speaker 4: be rate amongst kids in Denmark versus the US's effectively

939
00:45:22,520 --> 00:45:22,839
Speaker 4: the same.

940
00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:28,799
Speaker 2: So that's b And now you we've talked a lot

941
00:45:28,840 --> 00:45:31,839
Speaker 2: about this, and I think what Children's Defense Fund has

942
00:45:31,880 --> 00:45:35,640
Speaker 2: made a big thing about this over the years is

943
00:45:35,680 --> 00:45:39,480
Speaker 2: how I learned about it is the nineteen eighties schedule

944
00:45:39,640 --> 00:45:45,520
Speaker 2: versus our current vaccine schedule. And you are talking about Denmark.

945
00:45:45,680 --> 00:45:48,040
Speaker 2: Is there an industrialized country that you look to and

946
00:45:48,120 --> 00:45:51,880
Speaker 2: say they basically do the childhood vaccine schedule in a

947
00:45:51,920 --> 00:45:54,560
Speaker 2: way that you look up to that you see as

948
00:45:54,560 --> 00:45:55,320
Speaker 2: the gold standard.

949
00:45:55,880 --> 00:45:56,239
Speaker 4: I don't know.

950
00:45:56,360 --> 00:45:59,200
Speaker 3: I mean, there are other places that have better health overall,

951
00:45:59,320 --> 00:46:01,000
Speaker 3: so I think we can at their overall health. But

952
00:46:01,040 --> 00:46:03,320
Speaker 3: I don't know that you can always compare it exactly

953
00:46:03,400 --> 00:46:05,080
Speaker 3: to America. So I think it's it's tough. I mean

954
00:46:05,120 --> 00:46:07,560
Speaker 3: that that's literally what Trump just came out and said

955
00:46:07,560 --> 00:46:09,080
Speaker 3: that he wants to do. He wants to compare to

956
00:46:09,120 --> 00:46:12,520
Speaker 3: other nations, look at the differences and have these discussions.

957
00:46:12,560 --> 00:46:14,239
Speaker 3: But you would have to really do a deep dive

958
00:46:14,280 --> 00:46:16,680
Speaker 3: into that, and I'm not sure that anyone's ever truly

959
00:46:16,760 --> 00:46:18,879
Speaker 3: done that before. Maybe maybe I'm wrong.

960
00:46:21,880 --> 00:46:24,600
Speaker 2: I look, I think your say his last name.

961
00:46:24,680 --> 00:46:26,440
Speaker 4: I think he should just I think it should just

962
00:46:26,520 --> 00:46:28,560
Speaker 4: treat vaccines like a product, which is you want to

963
00:46:28,560 --> 00:46:31,160
Speaker 4: get him get them. It's freedom, that's America. I'll support

964
00:46:31,200 --> 00:46:33,160
Speaker 4: anybody's rights to get as many vaccines as they want

965
00:46:33,239 --> 00:46:34,759
Speaker 4: and wear as many masks they want. I mean it

966
00:46:34,960 --> 00:46:37,000
Speaker 4: so okay, basic, but but but I don't think the

967
00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:41,600
Speaker 4: government between the business of basically promoting vaccines. So I

968
00:46:41,680 --> 00:46:44,360
Speaker 4: think that schedules are problematic to begin with.

969
00:46:44,480 --> 00:46:47,000
Speaker 2: Postkay, okay, they're problematic. I get that. I get your

970
00:46:47,320 --> 00:46:51,320
Speaker 2: perspective on this, just to find it. Then between nineteen,

971
00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:55,000
Speaker 2: let's say eighty five, twenty twenty five, how much more

972
00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:57,360
Speaker 2: vaccines are we getting? I guess we have a graphic

973
00:46:57,440 --> 00:46:57,640
Speaker 2: o it.

974
00:46:57,640 --> 00:47:01,560
Speaker 4: Here, Yeah, so and so on screen. That's the current schedule.

975
00:47:02,040 --> 00:47:06,160
Speaker 4: So if you are following the current CDC schedule including

976
00:47:06,200 --> 00:47:08,440
Speaker 4: COVID vaccine, okay, because still a lot of kids are

977
00:47:08,480 --> 00:47:13,719
Speaker 4: getting that today. By the first birthday, a child will

978
00:47:13,760 --> 00:47:16,960
Speaker 4: get twenty nine injections including COVID. So take COVID off

979
00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:19,040
Speaker 4: three or four doses because maybe the mother gets that

980
00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:22,719
Speaker 4: includes in euro twenty nine injections. In the nineteen eighty

981
00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:26,120
Speaker 4: six when that law was passed, a child falling sea

982
00:47:26,160 --> 00:47:28,920
Speaker 4: schedule get three injections by their first birthday. So you've

983
00:47:28,920 --> 00:47:32,680
Speaker 4: got on three to twenty five excluding COVID twenty nine

984
00:47:32,719 --> 00:47:35,399
Speaker 4: including covid okay, three to twenty five or twenty nine.

985
00:47:35,760 --> 00:47:37,799
Speaker 4: That is a massive difference. And every one of those

986
00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:42,480
Speaker 4: products was except for one, was developed and licensed by

987
00:47:42,560 --> 00:47:45,960
Speaker 4: a company knowing they would virtually never have to pay

988
00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:48,560
Speaker 4: for the kids that they kill or injure with that product.

989
00:47:48,920 --> 00:47:53,840
Speaker 2: What's the one? MMR okay? So let's get into MMR okay.

990
00:47:54,320 --> 00:47:59,399
Speaker 2: MMR was the the focus of a lot of controversy,

991
00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:03,920
Speaker 2: maybe rightly or wrongly, but you know, there was films

992
00:48:03,960 --> 00:48:05,759
Speaker 2: that came out about this, how that it used to

993
00:48:05,840 --> 00:48:10,160
Speaker 2: be separated into individual shots. It then that got grouped

994
00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:13,920
Speaker 2: together apparently a long time ago. People are saying that

995
00:48:14,000 --> 00:48:16,840
Speaker 2: they're you know, making you get it too young. These

996
00:48:16,920 --> 00:48:20,480
Speaker 2: kids are getting too young. It causes sort of, you know,

997
00:48:20,560 --> 00:48:23,320
Speaker 2: a shock to the kid's system because of I don't know,

998
00:48:23,400 --> 00:48:27,280
Speaker 2: some sort of toxins or whatever. What is the truth

999
00:48:27,560 --> 00:48:30,680
Speaker 2: about MMR And by the way, it was the one

1000
00:48:30,680 --> 00:48:33,759
Speaker 2: of the more the ones that was linked most to

1001
00:48:33,920 --> 00:48:37,759
Speaker 2: autism according to the people that prescribed to that theory, right,

1002
00:48:38,239 --> 00:48:41,279
Speaker 2: so it was the most under siege, if you will,

1003
00:48:41,320 --> 00:48:44,600
Speaker 2: from that community. Yeah, I mean, I'm just I'm trying

1004
00:48:44,600 --> 00:48:46,960
Speaker 2: to ask the question in a neutral way. I'll be

1005
00:48:47,040 --> 00:48:49,879
Speaker 2: honest and say that you know, our family, we tried

1006
00:48:49,920 --> 00:48:51,759
Speaker 2: to delay it as much as we could, and I

1007
00:48:51,840 --> 00:48:53,240
Speaker 2: always wanted it in separate shots.

1008
00:48:53,680 --> 00:48:56,320
Speaker 3: Let me start here. So for me, when I was

1009
00:48:56,360 --> 00:48:58,960
Speaker 3: in training and I went to a great program, very Western,

1010
00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:02,320
Speaker 3: the only thing that I was ever taught about vaccines

1011
00:49:02,360 --> 00:49:04,760
Speaker 3: and when it comes to autism was it's been debunked.

1012
00:49:05,640 --> 00:49:07,840
Speaker 3: We have tons of science on this. The science is settled,

1013
00:49:07,920 --> 00:49:11,000
Speaker 3: and that's really all that you're taught, and so unless

1014
00:49:11,040 --> 00:49:12,840
Speaker 3: you go look into it yourself, you really don't know

1015
00:49:12,880 --> 00:49:16,320
Speaker 3: what the research is. And I'm not being hyperbolic, I

1016
00:49:16,360 --> 00:49:18,920
Speaker 3: would say the most shocking thing I've ever seen in

1017
00:49:18,960 --> 00:49:20,840
Speaker 3: my life is when you go look at the research

1018
00:49:20,920 --> 00:49:24,400
Speaker 3: that actually exist on vaccines and autism and you realize

1019
00:49:24,440 --> 00:49:26,640
Speaker 3: what is and isn't there. When I was doing the

1020
00:49:26,680 --> 00:49:28,560
Speaker 3: research for my book, what I thought I was going

1021
00:49:28,640 --> 00:49:30,200
Speaker 3: to do. I was trying to write a balance book

1022
00:49:30,880 --> 00:49:32,800
Speaker 3: as best as possible, and I thought what I was

1023
00:49:32,840 --> 00:49:35,560
Speaker 3: going to find Because I'm in the integrative space, I'm

1024
00:49:35,600 --> 00:49:39,160
Speaker 3: aware of some of the research on maybe not always

1025
00:49:39,160 --> 00:49:41,319
Speaker 3: the best research, but there were studies out there that said, oh,

1026
00:49:41,360 --> 00:49:43,640
Speaker 3: maybe vaccines are related to autism, or there are people

1027
00:49:43,719 --> 00:49:45,080
Speaker 3: that have said that, And so I thought what I

1028
00:49:45,200 --> 00:49:48,959
Speaker 3: was going to find was all this amazing research that said,

1029
00:49:49,480 --> 00:49:52,920
Speaker 3: here are the amazing studies vaccinated versus unvaccinated. We have

1030
00:49:53,239 --> 00:49:56,400
Speaker 3: tons of studies that show vaccines don't cause autism. Here's

1031
00:49:56,440 --> 00:49:58,600
Speaker 3: what it is. And also here are those other studies

1032
00:49:58,719 --> 00:50:01,320
Speaker 3: that people are talking about. Some maybe it's not totally settled,

1033
00:50:01,760 --> 00:50:04,839
Speaker 3: but here's the both sides when you actually go look,

1034
00:50:05,320 --> 00:50:09,000
Speaker 3: all of the research is only on MMR thyma aerosol,

1035
00:50:09,040 --> 00:50:11,360
Speaker 3: which is the mercury component that's not in vaccines anymore.

1036
00:50:11,680 --> 00:50:14,560
Speaker 3: And that's really it. And I could not believe it.

1037
00:50:14,719 --> 00:50:16,520
Speaker 3: I had to go back. I looked at it again.

1038
00:50:16,520 --> 00:50:18,760
Speaker 3: I have a master's in epidemiology, I've done house research,

1039
00:50:18,760 --> 00:50:20,440
Speaker 3: I've done a literature view. I couldn't believe it. I

1040
00:50:20,480 --> 00:50:23,560
Speaker 3: read Paul Offit's book, Peter Hotez's book. They literally separate

1041
00:50:23,640 --> 00:50:27,480
Speaker 3: it by that. And so when you're talking about vaccines

1042
00:50:27,480 --> 00:50:32,040
Speaker 3: and autism, the reality is that question has never totally

1043
00:50:32,280 --> 00:50:35,120
Speaker 3: been asked and answered. It's certainly not debunked. If anything,

1044
00:50:35,200 --> 00:50:37,719
Speaker 3: there are some studies in some research that has come out,

1045
00:50:37,800 --> 00:50:40,040
Speaker 3: not always the best research in the best journals, but

1046
00:50:40,080 --> 00:50:42,319
Speaker 3: it's out there. There are studies on MMR. But even

1047
00:50:42,400 --> 00:50:46,879
Speaker 3: those studies are epidemiologic studies. They're retrospective, so backwards in time,

1048
00:50:46,960 --> 00:50:50,120
Speaker 3: and they're looking at MMR versus no MR in the

1049
00:50:50,160 --> 00:50:52,840
Speaker 3: setting of kids who got their other vaccines. That's not

1050
00:50:52,960 --> 00:50:55,080
Speaker 3: the question that parents have. The question that parents have

1051
00:50:55,239 --> 00:50:58,759
Speaker 3: is if my kid is unvaccinated, do they have a

1052
00:50:58,840 --> 00:51:01,360
Speaker 3: lower risk of autism than if I get them vaccinated.

1053
00:51:01,719 --> 00:51:03,640
Speaker 3: MMR is the only one that we do have some research.

1054
00:51:03,680 --> 00:51:05,239
Speaker 3: So if you were to take the mainstream research, you

1055
00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:08,320
Speaker 3: could say, well, based on what we have, the MMR

1056
00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:12,080
Speaker 3: doesn't seem to increase their risk. But that's not the question.

1057
00:51:12,200 --> 00:51:14,680
Speaker 3: I think it's about all vaccines, and I think that

1058
00:51:14,760 --> 00:51:18,600
Speaker 3: it's yeah, sorry, I'm just saying I think that's where

1059
00:51:18,760 --> 00:51:22,320
Speaker 3: we're talking about what the CDC changed recently. On their website,

1060
00:51:22,360 --> 00:51:25,040
Speaker 3: they basically went back to say, it's not been debunked,

1061
00:51:25,120 --> 00:51:26,920
Speaker 3: it's not settled. We need to do this research.

1062
00:51:26,960 --> 00:51:27,520
Speaker 2: So let's.

1063
00:51:29,840 --> 00:51:33,120
Speaker 9: This is Lane Schoenberger, chief investment Officer and founding partner

1064
00:51:33,160 --> 00:51:35,719
Speaker 9: of y Refi. It has been an honor and a

1065
00:51:35,760 --> 00:51:38,600
Speaker 9: privilege to partner with Turning Point and for Charlie to

1066
00:51:38,719 --> 00:51:41,759
Speaker 9: endorse us. His endorsement means the world to us, and

1067
00:51:41,840 --> 00:51:44,399
Speaker 9: we look forward to continuing our partnership with Turning Point

1068
00:51:44,640 --> 00:51:47,960
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1069
00:51:48,239 --> 00:51:49,360
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1070
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1081
00:52:16,600 --> 00:52:19,680
Speaker 1: all fifty states. Go to yrefight dot com. That is

1082
00:52:19,760 --> 00:52:22,440
Speaker 1: why are e f y dot com. Let's face it,

1083
00:52:22,520 --> 00:52:24,680
Speaker 1: if you have distress or defaulted student loans, it can

1084
00:52:24,719 --> 00:52:27,759
Speaker 1: be overwhelming because of privacit loan debt, so many people

1085
00:52:27,960 --> 00:52:30,800
Speaker 1: feel stuck. Go to y refight dot com. That is

1086
00:52:31,080 --> 00:52:34,400
Speaker 1: y r e f y dot com private student loan

1087
00:52:34,480 --> 00:52:36,000
Speaker 1: debt relief yrefight dot com.

1088
00:52:38,560 --> 00:52:41,520
Speaker 2: On November twentieth of this year, twenty twenty five, the

1089
00:52:41,600 --> 00:52:45,840
Speaker 2: CDC wording changed regarding vaccines and autism, so we have

1090
00:52:46,000 --> 00:52:49,120
Speaker 2: this year. They added this asterix here says pursuant to

1091
00:52:49,120 --> 00:52:51,560
Speaker 2: the data says vaccines do not cause autism, but with

1092
00:52:51,840 --> 00:52:53,960
Speaker 2: an asterisk, so that's a pretty big deal. And then

1093
00:52:53,960 --> 00:52:56,879
Speaker 2: they added that line in yellow vaccines do not cause

1094
00:52:56,960 --> 00:53:02,399
Speaker 2: autism is not an evidence based This is a big

1095
00:53:02,480 --> 00:53:05,920
Speaker 2: old shot across the bow to the medical establishment on

1096
00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:10,400
Speaker 2: this issue. And I'm sure there is massive amounts of

1097
00:53:10,560 --> 00:53:13,440
Speaker 2: debate within your your guys's communities, a medical community, and

1098
00:53:13,440 --> 00:53:16,000
Speaker 2: the legal community on this on this topic, because this

1099
00:53:16,360 --> 00:53:20,439
Speaker 2: is kind of what I guess. You know, some people

1100
00:53:20,560 --> 00:53:25,960
Speaker 2: feared what happen with an rfkah tess right, Why did

1101
00:53:26,000 --> 00:53:28,960
Speaker 2: they make this change? Do you support it? Do you

1102
00:53:29,520 --> 00:53:31,719
Speaker 2: you just you have sort of a different perspective on

1103
00:53:31,800 --> 00:53:34,120
Speaker 2: it altogether. What's your take on it?

1104
00:53:34,640 --> 00:53:36,160
Speaker 4: You mean they were scared they would tell the truth?

1105
00:53:37,000 --> 00:53:39,279
Speaker 2: Okay, So that's well, Look, that's what I'm trying to

1106
00:53:39,360 --> 00:53:39,520
Speaker 2: do it.

1107
00:53:39,600 --> 00:53:43,399
Speaker 4: Look here I'll give you so here on the autism question,

1108
00:53:43,640 --> 00:53:47,600
Speaker 4: Joel's exactly right. They have not ruled out that vaccines

1109
00:53:47,680 --> 00:53:49,879
Speaker 4: and not cause autism in any way. And I'll tell

1110
00:53:49,880 --> 00:53:52,880
Speaker 4: you why. First of all, the very first time that

1111
00:53:53,040 --> 00:53:55,640
Speaker 4: the question of whether vaccines and autism should be studied

1112
00:53:55,719 --> 00:53:58,319
Speaker 4: was in the nineteen eighty six act that Federal Law

1113
00:53:58,760 --> 00:54:05,000
Speaker 4: Congress specifically told ahhs look at whether Pertessa's vaccine causes autism.

1114
00:54:05,200 --> 00:54:07,840
Speaker 4: It was one of only eleven conditions. They asked that

1115
00:54:08,440 --> 00:54:12,319
Speaker 4: the HHS look into HHS being the US Department Health

1116
00:54:12,400 --> 00:54:16,560
Speaker 4: Human Services, that's the department in which cdcfdnh Health loocate

1117
00:54:16,640 --> 00:54:20,400
Speaker 4: us what Bobby's running right now. Okay, So it was

1118
00:54:20,440 --> 00:54:22,400
Speaker 4: nothing to do with MMR. Initially it had to do

1119
00:54:22,480 --> 00:54:26,000
Speaker 4: with Protessa's vaccine. Okay. So that's where it started. Paul

1120
00:54:26,000 --> 00:54:28,279
Speaker 4: Wakefield thing didn't come up until the late nineties. I mean,

1121
00:54:28,320 --> 00:54:31,680
Speaker 4: that was way way later. HHS commissioned the Institute of

1122
00:54:31,719 --> 00:54:33,719
Speaker 4: Medicine to look at this question of whether or not

1123
00:54:33,920 --> 00:54:36,800
Speaker 4: protesta's vaccine and as connected autism. And you know what,

1124
00:54:36,840 --> 00:54:38,680
Speaker 4: They published report in nineteen and one and they said,

1125
00:54:38,680 --> 00:54:41,759
Speaker 4: we can't find any study, zero, none. You never looked

1126
00:54:41,760 --> 00:54:44,840
Speaker 4: at it. Again. They were commissioned by the CDC, the

1127
00:54:44,920 --> 00:54:47,600
Speaker 4: Institute of Medicine and HEARSTL, which is an agency in

1128
00:54:47,800 --> 00:54:52,439
Speaker 4: HHS that fights vaccine injury claims again to study whether

1129
00:54:52,840 --> 00:54:55,520
Speaker 4: is there any science to show protester's vaccines don't cause autism,

1130
00:54:55,600 --> 00:54:58,280
Speaker 4: and again they could not find any study to support

1131
00:54:58,360 --> 00:55:02,240
Speaker 4: that question. When IOM publish its report in twenty and twelve,

1132
00:55:02,239 --> 00:55:04,800
Speaker 4: they found one study. They found one study that showed

1133
00:55:05,400 --> 00:55:08,359
Speaker 4: actually there was an association, but they threw it out

1134
00:55:08,360 --> 00:55:10,440
Speaker 4: because it said didn't have an unvaccinated group and it

1135
00:55:10,560 --> 00:55:14,280
Speaker 4: was based on verir's data, so they threw out the study. Okay,

1136
00:55:14,880 --> 00:55:19,399
Speaker 4: so we're at twenty twelve on behalf of I can

1137
00:55:19,480 --> 00:55:23,560
Speaker 4: that nonprofit I mentioned earlier. I sued the CDC for

1138
00:55:23,680 --> 00:55:26,880
Speaker 4: the studies that rely upon to support that. The vaccine

1139
00:55:26,960 --> 00:55:28,879
Speaker 4: is given in the first six months of life. Five

1140
00:55:28,960 --> 00:55:38,600
Speaker 4: different vaccines, three shots each HEPPI, hib detap IPv, and PCV,

1141
00:55:39,200 --> 00:55:41,920
Speaker 4: so each of those are given three injections ease fifteen injections.

1142
00:55:42,680 --> 00:55:45,920
Speaker 4: Why when you look at parental surveys, forty to seventy

1143
00:55:46,000 --> 00:55:49,040
Speaker 4: percent of parents still blame vaccines as causing their child's autism.

1144
00:55:49,120 --> 00:55:51,640
Speaker 4: And what vaccines do they point to? They point to

1145
00:55:51,680 --> 00:55:53,880
Speaker 4: those vaccines in the first six months of life, and

1146
00:55:53,960 --> 00:55:56,759
Speaker 4: they point to MMR. That's what they point to. So

1147
00:55:56,960 --> 00:55:59,040
Speaker 4: if you're gonna say vaccines on cause autism, you better

1148
00:55:59,120 --> 00:56:01,000
Speaker 4: rule out those vaccines cause autism in the first six

1149
00:56:01,040 --> 00:56:03,560
Speaker 4: months of life because they can diagnose autism before they

1150
00:56:03,600 --> 00:56:06,520
Speaker 4: give the MMR, which doesn't get given until no earlier

1151
00:56:06,600 --> 00:56:09,200
Speaker 4: than twelve months of age, except for if you're traveling abroad.

1152
00:56:09,239 --> 00:56:11,880
Speaker 4: Maybe I'll give it to you earlier, but almost never. Okay,

1153
00:56:12,719 --> 00:56:17,360
Speaker 4: So we said, CDC, give us the studies. We foided

1154
00:56:17,400 --> 00:56:20,319
Speaker 4: them something called the Freedom Information Act. We ended up

1155
00:56:20,320 --> 00:56:22,400
Speaker 4: suing them in federal court Southern District of New York.

1156
00:56:22,440 --> 00:56:24,160
Speaker 4: I didn't even go to Texas, Okay. I went to

1157
00:56:24,239 --> 00:56:27,600
Speaker 4: Southern District of New York, right, not the friendliest territory.

1158
00:56:28,520 --> 00:56:31,719
Speaker 4: And the days before we had our initial conference, I

1159
00:56:31,760 --> 00:56:33,680
Speaker 4: got a call from the Department of Justice and I

1160
00:56:33,760 --> 00:56:37,239
Speaker 4: got a list of studies from them, twenty studies. Now,

1161
00:56:37,920 --> 00:56:39,840
Speaker 4: maybe the CDC thinks we can't read. I don't know,

1162
00:56:40,320 --> 00:56:42,360
Speaker 4: but I read them, and I called back the DOJ

1163
00:56:42,440 --> 00:56:46,080
Speaker 4: attorney and I said, hey, I read your list. I said,

1164
00:56:46,760 --> 00:56:50,560
Speaker 4: are you sure your client, the CDC wants to enter

1165
00:56:50,680 --> 00:56:55,000
Speaker 4: into a settlement saying these are the twenty studies rely

1166
00:56:55,160 --> 00:56:57,120
Speaker 4: upon to claim that the vaccine is given in the

1167
00:56:57,160 --> 00:57:01,120
Speaker 4: first six months on casualtism. I said, because nineteen of

1168
00:57:01,200 --> 00:57:03,800
Speaker 4: these studies have nothing to do with any of those vaccines.

1169
00:57:04,040 --> 00:57:07,719
Speaker 4: They're almost all MMR vaccine studies, which are irrelevant, right,

1170
00:57:07,760 --> 00:57:11,279
Speaker 4: because you're comparing basically kids who get seventeen shots with

1171
00:57:11,400 --> 00:57:15,760
Speaker 4: eighteen shots. That's silly, right, you shoot seventeen shots whiskey

1172
00:57:15,760 --> 00:57:17,880
Speaker 4: and eighteen shots whiskey and you're drunk. That doesn't mean

1173
00:57:17,920 --> 00:57:21,880
Speaker 4: anything both ways. And also they are all the MMR

1174
00:57:21,960 --> 00:57:25,720
Speaker 4: studies have helped user bias because the kids who get

1175
00:57:25,800 --> 00:57:28,680
Speaker 4: injured in the first six months from vaccines, they stopped

1176
00:57:28,680 --> 00:57:32,160
Speaker 4: getting vaccinated. They don't get MMR vaccine. Throws off those studies.

1177
00:57:32,320 --> 00:57:35,360
Speaker 4: Putting that aside, and I said, the twentieth one on

1178
00:57:35,480 --> 00:57:38,280
Speaker 4: your list is the twenty twelve IM report. I just

1179
00:57:38,320 --> 00:57:41,680
Speaker 4: told you about that. I only had that. Said, the

1180
00:57:41,800 --> 00:57:44,520
Speaker 4: Institut of Medicine itself said, we can't find any study

1181
00:57:44,560 --> 00:57:46,680
Speaker 4: showing DETAP does not cause autism, in one that showed

1182
00:57:46,680 --> 00:57:49,440
Speaker 4: an association. I said, so your whole list literally only

1183
00:57:49,480 --> 00:57:54,840
Speaker 4: has one study and it showed an association. They went ahead,

1184
00:57:54,840 --> 00:57:57,280
Speaker 4: They signed it. I signed it. The DOJ signed on

1185
00:57:57,280 --> 00:57:59,400
Speaker 4: behalf of the CDC. I signed him half the I

1186
00:57:59,520 --> 00:58:03,360
Speaker 4: can judge entered as a court order. I mean, I

1187
00:58:03,440 --> 00:58:06,120
Speaker 4: know nowhere else to turn, meaning that if you know,

1188
00:58:06,480 --> 00:58:08,320
Speaker 4: they were held with guns to their head in federal

1189
00:58:08,360 --> 00:58:10,720
Speaker 4: court and they don't have the studies. So the point is,

1190
00:58:10,760 --> 00:58:13,320
Speaker 4: so when that web page is updated, yes, I completely

1191
00:58:13,360 --> 00:58:16,600
Speaker 4: agree that's correct. We shouldn't be saying vaccines do not

1192
00:58:16,680 --> 00:58:18,760
Speaker 4: causultism unless you have the studies to show it, because

1193
00:58:18,760 --> 00:58:21,120
Speaker 4: we don't know that you don't have the studies. Yeah.

1194
00:58:21,520 --> 00:58:23,920
Speaker 3: So one of the things that's most interesting in the

1195
00:58:24,040 --> 00:58:26,520
Speaker 3: vaccine space when it comes to autism, and you can

1196
00:58:26,560 --> 00:58:29,200
Speaker 3: hear it when he deposes doctor Edwards, which is one

1197
00:58:29,240 --> 00:58:30,680
Speaker 3: of the most interesting things you can listen to if

1198
00:58:30,720 --> 00:58:34,080
Speaker 3: you want to listen to vaccines and autism, is you

1199
00:58:34,280 --> 00:58:38,000
Speaker 3: realize that basically all doctors are saying that vaccines don't

1200
00:58:38,000 --> 00:58:40,880
Speaker 3: cause autism because it hasn't been proven to cause autism.

1201
00:58:41,600 --> 00:58:44,920
Speaker 3: So it's this weird negative because it hasn't been studied.

1202
00:58:45,160 --> 00:58:47,200
Speaker 3: So therefore, if it hasn't been found to cause or

1203
00:58:47,200 --> 00:58:49,240
Speaker 3: not cause autism, they can say, oh, it's not proven

1204
00:58:49,280 --> 00:58:51,160
Speaker 3: to cause autism. That's where we're sitting.

1205
00:58:51,480 --> 00:58:52,160
Speaker 4: He said.

1206
00:58:52,200 --> 00:58:54,480
Speaker 3: He's like, oh, so Heppy, do you have a study

1207
00:58:54,520 --> 00:58:54,880
Speaker 3: to show this?

1208
00:58:55,040 --> 00:58:55,080
Speaker 8: No?

1209
00:58:55,200 --> 00:58:55,560
Speaker 3: I don't.

1210
00:58:56,400 --> 00:58:58,920
Speaker 2: That is the question is then why do we not

1211
00:58:59,080 --> 00:59:02,000
Speaker 2: have more studies? And it's because, I mean, I'm looking

1212
00:59:02,000 --> 00:59:06,080
Speaker 2: at you, there is not a financial incentive.

1213
00:59:06,280 --> 00:59:09,280
Speaker 4: Who who's got the who? You hit it right in

1214
00:59:09,320 --> 00:59:11,440
Speaker 4: the head. I didn't need to say it exactly I mean,

1215
00:59:11,480 --> 00:59:14,320
Speaker 4: who has the financial incentive to conductive studies are expensive?

1216
00:59:14,600 --> 00:59:15,360
Speaker 4: Who's going to do them?

1217
00:59:15,920 --> 00:59:18,680
Speaker 3: But wouldn't you think wouldn't you think that somebody would

1218
00:59:18,680 --> 00:59:21,240
Speaker 3: take the big data bases that we have and study

1219
00:59:21,320 --> 00:59:23,840
Speaker 3: vaccinate vers vaccini kids. Wouldn't you think that would exist?

1220
00:59:23,880 --> 00:59:24,760
Speaker 3: It's not a hard thing to do.

1221
00:59:25,160 --> 00:59:28,680
Speaker 2: Well, Yeah, I mean, who is unvaccinated in the United States? Besides,

1222
00:59:28,800 --> 00:59:30,800
Speaker 2: like the Amish, there are kids that are on vaccinated.

1223
00:59:30,800 --> 00:59:33,200
Speaker 4: I mean, but according to the CDC data, there's around

1224
00:59:33,280 --> 00:59:35,880
Speaker 4: at least seven hundred, around six hundred and fifty thousand

1225
00:59:35,960 --> 00:59:38,560
Speaker 4: kids in America today that are on vaccine according to

1226
00:59:38,600 --> 00:59:39,600
Speaker 4: CDC's own data.

1227
00:59:39,760 --> 00:59:41,880
Speaker 3: So okay, and certainly there are kids that are fully

1228
00:59:41,960 --> 00:59:45,200
Speaker 3: vaccinated versus having fewer vaccines versus no vaccines.

1229
00:59:45,240 --> 00:59:47,360
Speaker 2: You can absolutely do that stuff I'm talking about completely.

1230
00:59:47,960 --> 00:59:49,240
Speaker 3: That's about one percent there.

1231
00:59:49,600 --> 00:59:51,560
Speaker 4: You'd be surprised how many kids are on vaccine. And

1232
00:59:51,600 --> 00:59:53,360
Speaker 4: by the way, the last person to do that study

1233
00:59:53,480 --> 00:59:56,520
Speaker 4: is the federal government because remember I said earlier, you

1234
00:59:56,600 --> 00:59:59,320
Speaker 4: can't see vaccine manufacturers. But if you're injured by vaccine,

1235
00:59:59,600 --> 01:00:01,800
Speaker 4: and I've got over dozen, you know a lot of

1236
01:00:01,800 --> 01:00:03,840
Speaker 4: people from to do this work. You can bring a

1237
01:00:03,920 --> 01:00:06,520
Speaker 4: claim for VACS an injury, you just bring it against

1238
01:00:06,760 --> 01:00:09,760
Speaker 4: the Secretary of HHS. You bring it against the federal government.

1239
01:00:10,040 --> 01:00:12,880
Speaker 4: It's the only and they fight you with DOJ attorneys.

1240
01:00:12,920 --> 01:00:15,560
Speaker 4: It's the only product they know in America where the

1241
01:00:15,680 --> 01:00:19,520
Speaker 4: government defends the interests of the industry against the injured consumer.

1242
01:00:20,000 --> 01:00:23,760
Speaker 4: Think about that. You're injured, your is now and that

1243
01:00:24,280 --> 01:00:27,040
Speaker 4: is because why that's because the nineteen eighty six Act.

1244
01:00:27,120 --> 01:00:29,000
Speaker 2: No, but why were they Why was the federals just?

1245
01:00:29,160 --> 01:00:30,280
Speaker 2: Is it just it's big money?

1246
01:00:30,560 --> 01:00:30,720
Speaker 7: Is it?

1247
01:00:31,000 --> 01:00:33,560
Speaker 4: Why was it's? Why are they not?

1248
01:00:34,040 --> 01:00:36,000
Speaker 2: So I brought up I said, well the government should

1249
01:00:36,000 --> 01:00:37,360
Speaker 2: do the study, then we should.

1250
01:00:37,120 --> 01:00:39,360
Speaker 4: We under rected. Yeah, so they have a structure of

1251
01:00:39,400 --> 01:00:42,920
Speaker 4: the dynamic. Give the conflict. I'll give you the dynamic. So,

1252
01:00:43,080 --> 01:00:47,280
Speaker 4: for example, the Department of Transportation promotes aviation, more planes

1253
01:00:47,320 --> 01:00:49,360
Speaker 4: in the sky, right, that's a good thing, more airports,

1254
01:00:49,440 --> 01:00:53,400
Speaker 4: more way to get around. But they when you're already

1255
01:00:53,600 --> 01:00:58,080
Speaker 4: working with industry to have them do more, you can't

1256
01:00:58,120 --> 01:01:00,320
Speaker 4: also have them regulating them for safety there because the

1257
01:01:00,480 --> 01:01:03,560
Speaker 4: inhering conflict. So they created the NTSP. It's totally separate.

1258
01:01:03,800 --> 01:01:07,600
Speaker 4: Same thing. Department of Energy promotes more nuclear power plants,

1259
01:01:08,320 --> 01:01:11,360
Speaker 4: but they don't. It's completely separate agencies responsible for the

1260
01:01:11,400 --> 01:01:13,680
Speaker 4: safety of nuclear power plants. It's hard. I could dou say, hey,

1261
01:01:13,720 --> 01:01:15,600
Speaker 4: build another power plant the same time I'm smacking you

1262
01:01:15,800 --> 01:01:19,360
Speaker 4: for safety. It doesn't work so well, Okay, regulate, it's

1263
01:01:19,400 --> 01:01:22,160
Speaker 4: a conflict from a regulatory standpoint, so they separate those functions.

1264
01:01:22,560 --> 01:01:25,120
Speaker 4: When it comes to vaccines, the very same department, the

1265
01:01:25,160 --> 01:01:28,240
Speaker 4: Department of Health uman Services, they're responsible for promoting vaccines,

1266
01:01:28,240 --> 01:01:31,760
Speaker 4: statutorily has to promote them and has to defend them

1267
01:01:31,800 --> 01:01:34,600
Speaker 4: in against any claims of injury right when families bring

1268
01:01:34,680 --> 01:01:38,240
Speaker 4: those claims. So that's one side of their duties. The

1269
01:01:38,320 --> 01:01:40,800
Speaker 4: other one is safety. They're in conflict if they do

1270
01:01:40,880 --> 01:01:42,800
Speaker 4: a study that shows harm, what are the lawyers who

1271
01:01:42,840 --> 01:01:44,560
Speaker 4: represent vaccine injured family is going to do use it

1272
01:01:44,840 --> 01:01:46,720
Speaker 4: against the federal government. So it's the shortcut don't do

1273
01:01:46,760 --> 01:01:49,720
Speaker 4: the study, or don't do the study well, or you know,

1274
01:01:49,920 --> 01:01:54,160
Speaker 4: So it's it's the federal health authorities are completely conflicted.

1275
01:01:54,200 --> 01:01:56,280
Speaker 2: Well, and isn't there sort of this idea of institutional

1276
01:01:56,400 --> 01:01:59,240
Speaker 2: capture as well, right where you've got you know, board

1277
01:01:59,320 --> 01:02:01,680
Speaker 2: members from it's just a Pfizer that ends up you

1278
01:02:01,760 --> 01:02:03,200
Speaker 2: know inside there.

1279
01:02:03,240 --> 01:02:04,880
Speaker 4: You mean like Julie Gerbering was the head of the

1280
01:02:04,920 --> 01:02:09,320
Speaker 4: CDC for a decade during mrk's most controversial controversies around

1281
01:02:09,400 --> 01:02:13,200
Speaker 4: MMR vaccine and Gardesslo vaccine and some of its other products,

1282
01:02:13,320 --> 01:02:15,240
Speaker 4: and then went to head their vaccine division has made

1283
01:02:15,280 --> 01:02:17,919
Speaker 4: millions of dollars. You mean that, yes, yeah, are.

1284
01:02:17,800 --> 01:02:18,840
Speaker 2: There a lot of those instances?

1285
01:02:18,920 --> 01:02:22,560
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, okay, But but also vaccines are a religion.

1286
01:02:22,720 --> 01:02:25,120
Speaker 2: And he that's amen.

1287
01:02:25,680 --> 01:02:26,360
Speaker 4: I was trying to get.

1288
01:02:26,480 --> 01:02:29,040
Speaker 2: I was like, what are you driving at It feels

1289
01:02:29,080 --> 01:02:32,200
Speaker 2: like you're you're you know, obviously I'm talking to you now,

1290
01:02:32,200 --> 01:02:34,400
Speaker 2: and I sent, I sent a lot of the skepticism.

1291
01:02:34,480 --> 01:02:36,440
Speaker 2: But you know, vaccines, Amen. I was like, oh, okay,

1292
01:02:36,520 --> 01:02:38,760
Speaker 2: so I got the pro and I got you know, no,

1293
01:02:39,000 --> 01:02:41,280
Speaker 2: so but this this is what you do. You you

1294
01:02:41,640 --> 01:02:46,840
Speaker 2: snuff out these these inconsistencies or you know, let's just

1295
01:02:46,880 --> 01:02:50,880
Speaker 2: say conflicts of interest or this presented as a religion

1296
01:02:50,920 --> 01:02:52,520
Speaker 2: and you're like, this is not a religion. This is

1297
01:02:52,800 --> 01:02:57,640
Speaker 2: a fact based, evidence based area, and we're not we're

1298
01:02:57,680 --> 01:02:58,160
Speaker 2: not dealing with.

1299
01:02:58,240 --> 01:03:00,520
Speaker 4: It that way. Look in a religion, and people who

1300
01:03:00,560 --> 01:03:02,760
Speaker 4: know they're in religion when you go to church, to

1301
01:03:02,960 --> 01:03:06,520
Speaker 4: you go to your house of worship. You believe, and

1302
01:03:06,720 --> 01:03:09,760
Speaker 4: you know you're taking leap of faith to answer the unanswerables.

1303
01:03:09,800 --> 01:03:11,840
Speaker 4: Where do we go when we die? You know? Where

1304
01:03:11,880 --> 01:03:13,000
Speaker 4: does where does life come from?

1305
01:03:13,120 --> 01:03:13,240
Speaker 7: Right?

1306
01:03:13,640 --> 01:03:17,080
Speaker 4: You know you're in religion. These folks who run vaccinology

1307
01:03:17,600 --> 01:03:20,200
Speaker 4: they think they're engauging in science, and what I'm telling

1308
01:03:20,240 --> 01:03:23,080
Speaker 4: you is they're not. So it's it's a perverted religion.

1309
01:03:23,120 --> 01:03:25,120
Speaker 4: But it is a religion because they'll say things like

1310
01:03:25,240 --> 01:03:28,080
Speaker 4: vaccines on causultism, but that's not true. They don't know that.

1311
01:03:28,560 --> 01:03:30,680
Speaker 4: They say things like these are the most robustly trial

1312
01:03:30,800 --> 01:03:33,640
Speaker 4: products ever before they come to market. It's just false.

1313
01:03:33,720 --> 01:03:36,000
Speaker 4: But they The crazy thing is they believe these things.

1314
01:03:36,080 --> 01:03:39,120
Speaker 4: They believe vaccines are safe a priori without any data.

1315
01:03:39,520 --> 01:03:43,800
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, so you were talking about these these clips

1316
01:03:43,840 --> 01:03:46,960
Speaker 2: that we need to show of you deposing different individuals.

1317
01:03:47,040 --> 01:03:49,080
Speaker 2: This is doctor Plakin, who is doctor Plotkin.

1318
01:03:49,640 --> 01:03:52,880
Speaker 4: So doctor Stanley Plockin is the world's leading vaccinologist to

1319
01:03:53,160 --> 01:03:56,240
Speaker 4: the medical texts of vaccines is called Plokins vaccines. The

1320
01:03:56,360 --> 01:03:59,320
Speaker 4: gavel at asip is called Plakin's gavel. That's the CDC

1321
01:03:59,440 --> 01:03:59,960
Speaker 4: vaccine can make.

1322
01:04:00,320 --> 01:04:02,400
Speaker 2: Where he's named the gavel after this guy.

1323
01:04:02,480 --> 01:04:05,720
Speaker 4: They lamed the gavel after Whi because he attended every

1324
01:04:05,760 --> 01:04:08,040
Speaker 4: A meeting for decades and is in their own words,

1325
01:04:08,320 --> 01:04:11,560
Speaker 4: he's probably had more influence on an ASIP than anybody

1326
01:04:11,600 --> 01:04:14,600
Speaker 4: out there. He's probably had more of an influence in

1327
01:04:14,640 --> 01:04:17,480
Speaker 4: developing the current vaccine schedule in any living human being

1328
01:04:17,640 --> 01:04:19,280
Speaker 4: or dead. How old is see by the way, he's

1329
01:04:19,280 --> 01:04:21,560
Speaker 4: pretty old at this nineties. It was in his nineties.

1330
01:04:21,600 --> 01:04:22,840
Speaker 2: Okay, So when did you depose him?

1331
01:04:22,960 --> 01:04:25,200
Speaker 4: I deposed him in twenty eighteen.

1332
01:04:25,320 --> 01:04:27,120
Speaker 2: Okay, So this clip I'm about to yeah, okay, so

1333
01:04:27,200 --> 01:04:29,240
Speaker 2: it's I see it's from January eleven, twenty eighteen. I

1334
01:04:29,280 --> 01:04:30,760
Speaker 2: see it on here. I'm just going to play the

1335
01:04:30,760 --> 01:04:34,480
Speaker 2: clip and then have you. These are longer clips, so

1336
01:04:34,560 --> 01:04:36,560
Speaker 2: we might have cut out some of the context is important.

1337
01:04:36,600 --> 01:04:38,760
Speaker 2: You can fill that in on the on the back

1338
01:04:38,840 --> 01:04:40,080
Speaker 2: side of this play cut.

1339
01:04:40,120 --> 01:04:44,400
Speaker 6: One seventy point is that there are no studies showing

1340
01:04:44,560 --> 01:04:48,280
Speaker 6: that it does cause autism except one study by two

1341
01:04:48,480 --> 01:04:52,600
Speaker 6: well known anti vaccination figures Geyer and Geyer, who have

1342
01:04:52,720 --> 01:04:54,240
Speaker 6: no legitimacy whatsoever.

1343
01:04:54,800 --> 01:04:56,840
Speaker 2: Well, and it's okay, so and then it goes on.

1344
01:04:57,000 --> 01:05:01,240
Speaker 2: So what they're saying is that that there's no evidence

1345
01:05:01,360 --> 01:05:04,000
Speaker 2: and the important point from my point of view is

1346
01:05:04,080 --> 01:05:06,280
Speaker 2: that there is no positive evidence all right to do

1347
01:05:06,400 --> 01:05:09,360
Speaker 2: a proper study, So that that was.

1348
01:05:09,400 --> 01:05:12,800
Speaker 4: The whole that's the wrong clip. I probably maybe I

1349
01:05:12,840 --> 01:05:14,760
Speaker 4: sent the wrong clip, and I it was no.

1350
01:05:14,880 --> 01:05:17,360
Speaker 2: It's fine clip. But this is this is what you

1351
01:05:17,440 --> 01:05:19,880
Speaker 2: were kind of talking about before though of the well.

1352
01:05:19,760 --> 01:05:22,320
Speaker 4: The clip, if you had the clip, what the clip

1353
01:05:22,360 --> 01:05:26,880
Speaker 4: would show is this. He eventually concedes there are no

1354
01:05:26,960 --> 01:05:30,959
Speaker 4: studies that show DETAP doesn't cause autism. Okay. He also

1355
01:05:31,360 --> 01:05:33,520
Speaker 4: U and he says, well, and I say, but you

1356
01:05:33,600 --> 01:05:35,840
Speaker 4: have done studies and you claim that do support the

1357
01:05:35,920 --> 01:05:37,360
Speaker 4: MMR vaccine doesn't cause autism.

1358
01:05:37,480 --> 01:05:39,240
Speaker 2: Right, He goes, yes, I go to the study said

1359
01:05:39,240 --> 01:05:41,800
Speaker 2: that slower. So oh that last part that I.

1360
01:05:41,880 --> 01:05:45,920
Speaker 4: Said to him, you believe studies have been done to

1361
01:05:46,000 --> 01:05:48,880
Speaker 4: show that MMR vaccine does not cause autism? And he

1362
01:05:48,960 --> 01:05:52,080
Speaker 4: says yes, And so I said, okay, so studies are

1363
01:05:52,280 --> 01:05:55,680
Speaker 4: possible to rule out that a vaccine cause autism and

1364
01:05:55,720 --> 01:05:56,240
Speaker 4: he said yes.

1365
01:05:56,720 --> 01:05:58,240
Speaker 2: I said, great, we should do them.

1366
01:05:58,640 --> 01:06:01,160
Speaker 4: But there are no studies that show that DETAP doesn't

1367
01:06:01,200 --> 01:06:04,120
Speaker 4: cause autism. And he said and he had to eventually

1368
01:06:04,200 --> 01:06:07,520
Speaker 4: concede that there are not because the iom said. And

1369
01:06:07,600 --> 01:06:11,080
Speaker 4: so I said to him, I said, doctor Plockin, shouldn't

1370
01:06:11,080 --> 01:06:14,120
Speaker 4: you wait until you do, until you have the studies

1371
01:06:14,240 --> 01:06:17,560
Speaker 4: that show that DETAP doesn't cause autism before you tell

1372
01:06:17,600 --> 01:06:20,120
Speaker 4: a parent that vaccines will cause autism?

1373
01:06:20,200 --> 01:06:21,240
Speaker 2: So what did he say to that?

1374
01:06:21,480 --> 01:06:24,440
Speaker 4: He said, do I wait? No, because I have to

1375
01:06:24,520 --> 01:06:26,919
Speaker 4: take into account the health of child. And then I said,

1376
01:06:26,960 --> 01:06:29,040
Speaker 4: so for that reason, you're willing to tell a parent

1377
01:06:29,480 --> 01:06:32,240
Speaker 4: that vaccines don't cause autism even though the science isn't

1378
01:06:32,240 --> 01:06:35,280
Speaker 4: there to support it. And he said yes, okay, So

1379
01:06:35,760 --> 01:06:39,360
Speaker 4: what he is saying he has admitted what the CDC

1380
01:06:39,480 --> 01:06:42,360
Speaker 4: webpage now admits, which is we told people vaccines on't

1381
01:06:42,400 --> 01:06:45,680
Speaker 4: cause autism to avoid vaccine hesitancy, even we didn't have

1382
01:06:45,920 --> 01:06:48,600
Speaker 4: that have the studies to support it.

1383
01:06:48,680 --> 01:06:51,080
Speaker 2: Okay, So that takes us in some ways to our

1384
01:06:51,200 --> 01:06:52,919
Speaker 2: I mean, you have some more here. We could play

1385
01:06:53,000 --> 01:06:58,080
Speaker 2: them this. You're deposing world leading vaccinologist doctor Catherine Edwards

1386
01:06:58,320 --> 01:07:02,040
Speaker 2: regarding vaccines and autism. So that's another we could play

1387
01:07:02,080 --> 01:07:04,040
Speaker 2: that clip. It's about forty seconds a little longer. Let's

1388
01:07:04,040 --> 01:07:05,480
Speaker 2: go ahead and play it and see where see where

1389
01:07:05,520 --> 01:07:06,680
Speaker 2: it leads us one to seventy one.

1390
01:07:07,480 --> 01:07:11,920
Speaker 7: In the expert disclosures for this case, it asserts that,

1391
01:07:12,040 --> 01:07:12,920
Speaker 7: among other things, you.

1392
01:07:12,920 --> 01:07:16,919
Speaker 4: Will testify that quote, the issue of whether vaccines cause

1393
01:07:16,920 --> 01:07:19,640
Speaker 4: autism has been thoroughly researched and rejected.

1394
01:07:19,800 --> 01:07:23,360
Speaker 7: End quote. It's your testimony that MMR vaccine cannot cause autism.

1395
01:07:24,000 --> 01:07:26,680
Speaker 7: That's correct. It's your testimony that head B vaccine cannot

1396
01:07:26,680 --> 01:07:28,360
Speaker 7: cause autism. That's correct.

1397
01:07:28,520 --> 01:07:31,600
Speaker 4: It's your testimony that I PULL cannot cause autism. Yes,

1398
01:07:32,240 --> 01:07:35,360
Speaker 4: it's your testimony that HIT vaccine cannot cause autism. Yes,

1399
01:07:35,760 --> 01:07:38,320
Speaker 4: your testimony that very cell vaccine cannot cause autism.

1400
01:07:38,840 --> 01:07:39,000
Speaker 7: Yes.

1401
01:07:39,360 --> 01:07:43,360
Speaker 4: It's your testimony that prevnarvaccine cannot cause autism. Yes, it's

1402
01:07:43,400 --> 01:07:46,280
Speaker 4: your testimony DETAP vaccine cannot cause autism. Yes.

1403
01:07:47,120 --> 01:07:48,400
Speaker 2: Well, she just goes through the list.

1404
01:07:48,640 --> 01:07:51,800
Speaker 4: Well, you're missing, you're missing the important part of the clip.

1405
01:07:51,920 --> 01:07:53,040
Speaker 2: But these are very long clips.

1406
01:07:53,080 --> 01:07:55,080
Speaker 4: I just want to Then I say to her, do

1407
01:07:55,120 --> 01:07:58,480
Speaker 4: you have any study that shows B vaccine doesn't cause autism?

1408
01:07:58,800 --> 01:08:01,480
Speaker 4: And she says no, do you have any that shows that?

1409
01:08:02,400 --> 01:08:02,840
Speaker 4: Each one?

1410
01:08:02,920 --> 01:08:07,280
Speaker 2: You just go, Okay, give me the next thirty seconds,

1411
01:08:08,440 --> 01:08:11,160
Speaker 2: the part you know you got to set this. They're

1412
01:08:11,160 --> 01:08:14,120
Speaker 2: just giving me the clips that's okay. The issues. These

1413
01:08:14,160 --> 01:08:14,920
Speaker 2: are longer clips.

1414
01:08:14,960 --> 01:08:15,960
Speaker 4: Anybody can watch it. Yeah.

1415
01:08:15,960 --> 01:08:18,080
Speaker 2: But but so that's funny. So she goes through, you go,

1416
01:08:18,320 --> 01:08:20,600
Speaker 2: this is your testimony, these do not cause autism. She

1417
01:08:20,640 --> 01:08:23,040
Speaker 2: goes yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, And then then you go,

1418
01:08:23,320 --> 01:08:24,640
Speaker 2: do you have science to back up this?

1419
01:08:24,760 --> 01:08:24,800
Speaker 4: This?

1420
01:08:25,000 --> 01:08:25,439
Speaker 1: This, this this.

1421
01:08:25,560 --> 01:08:27,200
Speaker 4: She says no, no, no, no, no no, and she

1422
01:08:27,320 --> 01:08:29,759
Speaker 4: has to admit no because she knows me, she answered,

1423
01:08:29,960 --> 01:08:31,679
Speaker 4: And at that point I've already been a few hours

1424
01:08:31,720 --> 01:08:35,000
Speaker 4: of me pounding her. This is infuriating on some level. Now,

1425
01:08:35,640 --> 01:08:38,400
Speaker 4: I don't let me just say. This doesn't make me

1426
01:08:38,479 --> 01:08:41,000
Speaker 4: think that all vaccines are bad. Guy, I don't believe that.

1427
01:08:41,040 --> 01:08:43,920
Speaker 4: I genuinely don't believe that. That's not the way we've

1428
01:08:43,960 --> 01:08:44,479
Speaker 4: done our family.

1429
01:08:45,880 --> 01:08:48,360
Speaker 2: I would just say that this is infuriating because there

1430
01:08:48,439 --> 01:08:52,640
Speaker 2: has been so much mud slinging and name calling and like,

1431
01:08:53,000 --> 01:08:54,519
Speaker 2: you're an I have to have I mean, listen, there

1432
01:08:54,600 --> 01:08:58,320
Speaker 2: was a whole era when Charlie was fighting this COVID

1433
01:08:58,400 --> 01:09:02,160
Speaker 2: Matt mandate where he started getting put like Charlie Kirk

1434
01:09:02,280 --> 01:09:05,160
Speaker 2: anti vaxxer, Charlie Kirk like in the media clippings because

1435
01:09:05,160 --> 01:09:07,840
Speaker 2: he was just like, I don't this feels really wrong

1436
01:09:07,920 --> 01:09:10,640
Speaker 2: to me, bodily autonomy, this whole argument, and and so

1437
01:09:10,920 --> 01:09:13,840
Speaker 2: we got smeared as anti vaxxers on this show, which

1438
01:09:14,000 --> 01:09:16,880
Speaker 2: was like not true, first of all, but second of all,

1439
01:09:18,520 --> 01:09:20,720
Speaker 2: you know, we were simply asking a question we'd never

1440
01:09:20,760 --> 01:09:23,120
Speaker 2: asked before. We had never even talked about it as

1441
01:09:23,160 --> 01:09:25,559
Speaker 2: a as a team, as a show. It was just like, hey,

1442
01:09:25,640 --> 01:09:27,560
Speaker 2: they're forcing this thing that you just came up with, Like,

1443
01:09:28,720 --> 01:09:30,680
Speaker 2: I know, you haven't done the long term studies about it,

1444
01:09:30,720 --> 01:09:32,920
Speaker 2: because we just got it right, and so you start

1445
01:09:32,960 --> 01:09:36,360
Speaker 2: asking all these new questions. Up up until that point,

1446
01:09:36,520 --> 01:09:39,120
Speaker 2: I think most people in the country were like, yeah,

1447
01:09:39,160 --> 01:09:42,280
Speaker 2: I'm like pro vaccine, you know, save countless lives, right, right,

1448
01:09:42,600 --> 01:09:46,400
Speaker 2: So all of a sudden, COVID unleashes this new wave

1449
01:09:46,479 --> 01:09:49,360
Speaker 2: of question asking because we saw how we were dealt

1450
01:09:49,400 --> 01:09:52,720
Speaker 2: with and this and then but again, I wasn't even

1451
01:09:52,800 --> 01:09:56,160
Speaker 2: questioning the schedule. I wasn't questioning what I thought was,

1452
01:09:56,760 --> 01:09:59,439
Speaker 2: you know, essentially established science, right. And then to hear

1453
01:10:00,360 --> 01:10:03,880
Speaker 2: lead vaccinologists in the world going like, I mean, we

1454
01:10:03,960 --> 01:10:05,360
Speaker 2: didn't hear it, but you filled me in on the

1455
01:10:05,400 --> 01:10:07,280
Speaker 2: second half of the clip, which is the most important clip.

1456
01:10:07,439 --> 01:10:11,760
Speaker 2: Studio uh. But to hear that the answer was no, no, no, no, no,

1457
01:10:11,960 --> 01:10:13,880
Speaker 2: we don't have science. We don't have science, and then

1458
01:10:13,920 --> 01:10:18,200
Speaker 2: we don't have the studies. It actually to your point. Now,

1459
01:10:18,280 --> 01:10:21,880
Speaker 2: I'm very happy that RFKSHHS and the CDC under him

1460
01:10:22,160 --> 01:10:25,000
Speaker 2: has updated the language saying let me get it, let

1461
01:10:25,040 --> 01:10:28,000
Speaker 2: me get it specifically here, because I want to make

1462
01:10:28,040 --> 01:10:30,840
Speaker 2: sure I have the exact wording right. There's one sixty eight.

1463
01:10:31,160 --> 01:10:35,120
Speaker 2: Vaccines do not cause autism is not an evidence based claim,

1464
01:10:35,200 --> 01:10:39,960
Speaker 2: and it appears unless scientific studies have not ruled out

1465
01:10:40,000 --> 01:10:45,080
Speaker 2: the possibility that infant vaccines contribute to the development of autism. However,

1466
01:10:45,880 --> 01:10:48,120
Speaker 2: let me just keep going. This statement has historically been

1467
01:10:48,120 --> 01:10:50,880
Speaker 2: disseminated by the CDC and other federal health agencies within

1468
01:10:51,120 --> 01:10:53,120
Speaker 2: HHS to prevent vaccine hesitancy.

1469
01:10:53,240 --> 01:10:54,800
Speaker 3: Yes, try being a doctor.

1470
01:10:54,960 --> 01:10:58,240
Speaker 2: This is okay, this is this is on your federal

1471
01:10:58,320 --> 01:11:02,000
Speaker 2: government's website now, and I'm sure heads are exploding, and

1472
01:11:02,120 --> 01:11:04,280
Speaker 2: I'm sure you're just in the middle of this kind

1473
01:11:04,320 --> 01:11:07,400
Speaker 2: of and you're you. Is it fair to say that

1474
01:11:08,160 --> 01:11:10,639
Speaker 2: that your role in this because you've been suing vaccine

1475
01:11:10,680 --> 01:11:13,920
Speaker 2: makers and I mean you you must be.

1476
01:11:14,200 --> 01:11:16,439
Speaker 4: Not sewing vaccine makers. Remember I can't see them. Oh,

1477
01:11:16,439 --> 01:11:18,000
Speaker 4: I would love to see them for the injuries, but

1478
01:11:18,080 --> 01:11:18,400
Speaker 4: I can't.

1479
01:11:18,760 --> 01:11:18,800
Speaker 7: So.

1480
01:11:18,960 --> 01:11:21,559
Speaker 2: But but you've been litigating these piece of civil rights

1481
01:11:21,640 --> 01:11:24,840
Speaker 2: can right against and so you're probably not very popular

1482
01:11:24,880 --> 01:11:27,120
Speaker 2: amongst some circles within the medical establishment.

1483
01:11:27,720 --> 01:11:29,080
Speaker 4: Is that understatement? Right?

1484
01:11:29,680 --> 01:11:30,200
Speaker 3: Understatement?

1485
01:11:30,280 --> 01:11:30,479
Speaker 4: Yeah?

1486
01:11:30,520 --> 01:11:33,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly understatement And okay, so now it's it's I

1487
01:11:33,880 --> 01:11:35,560
Speaker 2: hope it's all coming. But yeah, I will say the

1488
01:11:35,640 --> 01:11:38,519
Speaker 2: focus for you guys at home, because I am starting

1489
01:11:38,560 --> 01:11:40,240
Speaker 2: to see where the lines are drawn and where they're like,

1490
01:11:41,160 --> 01:11:42,920
Speaker 2: where the where the battle lines are at.

1491
01:11:43,200 --> 01:11:46,280
Speaker 4: I will tell you it's a mixed bag. Very unpopular

1492
01:11:46,320 --> 01:11:49,800
Speaker 4: in some circles, very popular in others. Oh, I don't

1493
01:11:49,840 --> 01:11:52,080
Speaker 4: doubt that those documents. And I'll tell you, I'll tell

1494
01:11:52,120 --> 01:11:54,880
Speaker 4: you the community of doctor the doctors who actually who

1495
01:11:55,000 --> 01:12:00,240
Speaker 4: actually read the primary sources, like toll right, I think

1496
01:12:00,520 --> 01:12:03,240
Speaker 4: you know Joel doesn't have an emotional reaction to having

1497
01:12:03,280 --> 01:12:06,320
Speaker 4: a discussion with me. He has an intellectual reaction. The

1498
01:12:06,439 --> 01:12:09,280
Speaker 4: doctors who don't know the primary sources, who just repeat mantras,

1499
01:12:09,800 --> 01:12:10,960
Speaker 4: they get worked out pretty bad.

1500
01:12:11,000 --> 01:12:13,519
Speaker 2: These doctors did know the primary sources. I'm gonna play

1501
01:12:13,560 --> 01:12:14,479
Speaker 2: the second part of that clip.

1502
01:12:14,560 --> 01:12:18,360
Speaker 4: Well, that there are different little Okay, so they are vaccinologists.

1503
01:12:18,680 --> 01:12:21,559
Speaker 4: There are a tiny little group more researchers, if you will,

1504
01:12:21,640 --> 01:12:25,519
Speaker 4: right there, they are vaccine they're vaccinologists. They are like

1505
01:12:25,600 --> 01:12:29,840
Speaker 4: the vaccine experts. When people think of doctors, they think, oh,

1506
01:12:29,960 --> 01:12:31,920
Speaker 4: the doctors, you know, they all know about vaccines, or

1507
01:12:31,960 --> 01:12:34,400
Speaker 4: the pediatricians at least know, or the immunologists know where

1508
01:12:34,400 --> 01:12:34,919
Speaker 4: the infectious.

1509
01:12:34,960 --> 01:12:37,640
Speaker 2: These doctors they're taking their cues from these people, the vaccinology.

1510
01:12:37,680 --> 01:12:39,240
Speaker 3: Right, we don't That's what people don't get.

1511
01:12:39,240 --> 01:12:40,280
Speaker 2: They do not We do not know.

1512
01:12:40,400 --> 01:12:41,120
Speaker 3: We did not learn this.

1513
01:12:41,240 --> 01:12:41,479
Speaker 4: Okay.

1514
01:12:41,560 --> 01:12:44,760
Speaker 3: When we go through our training, we are taught, here

1515
01:12:44,800 --> 01:12:47,600
Speaker 3: are the horrible diseases. Hear how much here are how

1516
01:12:47,680 --> 01:12:51,439
Speaker 3: much lower we have them today. Here's your schedule. Good luck.

1517
01:12:51,640 --> 01:12:53,840
Speaker 3: That's it that you don't really get into the details.

1518
01:12:53,880 --> 01:12:55,720
Speaker 3: You certainly don't get into the ingredients. You don't get

1519
01:12:55,720 --> 01:12:57,960
Speaker 3: into safety. You don't learn why we shouldn't trust pharma

1520
01:12:58,040 --> 01:13:01,360
Speaker 3: one oh one. You just are taught vaccines are good,

1521
01:13:01,640 --> 01:13:03,720
Speaker 3: and so you go do it. And it's not nefarious.

1522
01:13:03,800 --> 01:13:06,559
Speaker 3: It's not that any doctor patrician is giving a vaccine

1523
01:13:06,560 --> 01:13:08,120
Speaker 3: because they think they're harming a kid or they want

1524
01:13:08,120 --> 01:13:10,240
Speaker 3: to harm a kid. They want to protect kids. That

1525
01:13:10,439 --> 01:13:12,840
Speaker 3: is what we are taught. And unless you go learn

1526
01:13:12,920 --> 01:13:16,719
Speaker 3: this yourself, unless you listen to testimony like doctor Edwards,

1527
01:13:16,840 --> 01:13:18,240
Speaker 3: I didn't know any of this. I was in the

1528
01:13:18,280 --> 01:13:20,760
Speaker 3: integrated with space and I still didn't know ninety nine

1529
01:13:20,760 --> 01:13:23,320
Speaker 3: percent of this. You have to have these kinds of

1530
01:13:23,400 --> 01:13:26,000
Speaker 3: conversations and doctors need to hear it. And that is

1531
01:13:26,080 --> 01:13:30,120
Speaker 3: why I don't want to have a contentious conversation with

1532
01:13:30,240 --> 01:13:32,400
Speaker 3: Paul Offitt. I want to ask give me these questions.

1533
01:13:32,439 --> 01:13:34,280
Speaker 3: I want to say, Okay, here's what the research is.

1534
01:13:34,320 --> 01:13:37,360
Speaker 3: Why you think why do you think that that vaccines

1535
01:13:37,400 --> 01:13:38,920
Speaker 3: can't cause? Like I would love to know what they

1536
01:13:38,920 --> 01:13:40,840
Speaker 3: would say if they were questioned. They never get asked

1537
01:13:40,840 --> 01:13:42,599
Speaker 3: those questions because they only go on the things where

1538
01:13:42,640 --> 01:13:44,760
Speaker 3: they get the softball questions where they can say the

1539
01:13:44,800 --> 01:13:46,200
Speaker 3: pre answered questions.

1540
01:13:46,000 --> 01:13:48,439
Speaker 4: Well except for deposition, except when a deposition.

1541
01:13:48,520 --> 01:13:51,040
Speaker 2: But this is this is what's frustrating though, because I

1542
01:13:51,200 --> 01:13:53,800
Speaker 2: have only my own experience to go off of. But

1543
01:13:54,360 --> 01:13:57,040
Speaker 2: we got looked at like we are crazy people, like, oh,

1544
01:13:57,120 --> 01:14:00,640
Speaker 2: you're those people. We are probably in terms of our

1545
01:14:00,680 --> 01:14:03,559
Speaker 2: audience on the very moderate end of this, And all

1546
01:14:03,600 --> 01:14:06,400
Speaker 2: I wanted to do was delay certain shots as so

1547
01:14:06,479 --> 01:14:08,280
Speaker 2: the kids would get older there would be like less

1548
01:14:08,360 --> 01:14:13,040
Speaker 2: toxicity issues or whatever. I mean. It was basically like, hey,

1549
01:14:13,200 --> 01:14:15,080
Speaker 2: vaccines are still good, but I just want to kind

1550
01:14:15,120 --> 01:14:17,200
Speaker 2: of like space them out more, right, And we got

1551
01:14:17,280 --> 01:14:20,160
Speaker 2: looked at like we were absolute nutcases by so many

1552
01:14:20,200 --> 01:14:23,920
Speaker 2: of these pediatricians, and we were struggling to you know,

1553
01:14:24,240 --> 01:14:26,400
Speaker 2: just get people to work with us, like this is

1554
01:14:26,439 --> 01:14:28,120
Speaker 2: our comfort level. Can you work with us on this?

1555
01:14:28,720 --> 01:14:30,519
Speaker 2: And then on top of that, you have the schools,

1556
01:14:31,320 --> 01:14:34,519
Speaker 2: even private Christian schools in California, they're like bound by

1557
01:14:34,600 --> 01:14:39,080
Speaker 2: the state as well by the state schedule. It's a

1558
01:14:39,160 --> 01:14:42,519
Speaker 2: brand new year and a brand new opportunity to change

1559
01:14:42,720 --> 01:14:44,320
Speaker 2: the world for the better. This is one of our

1560
01:14:44,360 --> 01:14:47,280
Speaker 2: most important partners. It's easier than you might think. You

1561
01:14:47,360 --> 01:14:51,679
Speaker 2: can save babies by providing ultrasounds with preborn together during

1562
01:14:51,760 --> 01:14:53,920
Speaker 2: this Sanctity of Human Life Month, We're going to save

1563
01:14:53,960 --> 01:14:55,960
Speaker 2: babies right here on The Charlie Kirk Show, to show

1564
01:14:56,000 --> 01:14:58,799
Speaker 2: the world that not only do we believe life is precious,

1565
01:14:59,400 --> 01:15:01,880
Speaker 2: but we're going to do something about it. Your gift

1566
01:15:02,040 --> 01:15:04,680
Speaker 2: to preborn will give a girl the truth about what's

1567
01:15:04,720 --> 01:15:06,479
Speaker 2: happening in her body so that she can make the

1568
01:15:06,640 --> 01:15:09,040
Speaker 2: right choice. What better way to start this new year

1569
01:15:09,439 --> 01:15:12,160
Speaker 2: than to join us in saving babies. And twenty eight

1570
01:15:12,200 --> 01:15:14,519
Speaker 2: dollars a month will save a baby a month, all

1571
01:15:14,600 --> 01:15:17,120
Speaker 2: year long. A fifteen thousand and I know there's some

1572
01:15:17,280 --> 01:15:19,000
Speaker 2: of you out there that can do this. A fifteen

1573
01:15:19,040 --> 01:15:22,080
Speaker 2: thousand dollars gift will provide a complete ultrasound machine that

1574
01:15:22,120 --> 01:15:24,840
Speaker 2: will save thousands of babies for years and years to come.

1575
01:15:25,240 --> 01:15:27,920
Speaker 2: And we'll also save moms from a lifetime of regret.

1576
01:15:28,320 --> 01:15:30,880
Speaker 2: So start this year right by being a hero for life.

1577
01:15:31,000 --> 01:15:34,760
Speaker 2: Call eight three three eight five zero two two two nine.

1578
01:15:35,120 --> 01:15:38,400
Speaker 2: That's eight three three eight five zero two two two nine,

1579
01:15:38,880 --> 01:15:42,400
Speaker 2: or click on the preborn banner at Charliekirk dot com today.

1580
01:15:45,200 --> 01:15:47,760
Speaker 2: So you there's no religious exemption, which is one of

1581
01:15:47,800 --> 01:15:49,360
Speaker 2: the things I want to talk to you about. But

1582
01:15:49,479 --> 01:15:52,559
Speaker 2: before we get too far afield, here is the second

1583
01:15:52,640 --> 01:15:55,760
Speaker 2: half of that clip of the deposition one seventy five.

1584
01:15:56,160 --> 01:15:58,400
Speaker 4: Let me just finish other any studies one way another

1585
01:15:58,960 --> 01:16:03,280
Speaker 4: test or whether it does or doesn't cause autism part

1586
01:16:03,360 --> 01:16:08,320
Speaker 4: of MMR, but but not as very cell of by itself, no, sir,

1587
01:16:08,840 --> 01:16:11,479
Speaker 4: No studies that say it does or no studies that

1588
01:16:11,560 --> 01:16:17,840
Speaker 4: say it doesn't. Right, there have been studies that have

1589
01:16:18,120 --> 01:16:23,160
Speaker 4: found an association between hepotitis, the vaccine and autism.

1590
01:16:23,320 --> 01:16:30,559
Speaker 7: Correct, not studies that I feel are credible. Okay, which study?

1591
01:16:31,280 --> 01:16:34,519
Speaker 7: Which study you are you referring to when you say that, Well,

1592
01:16:34,560 --> 01:16:36,240
Speaker 7: why don't you show me this study and then I'll

1593
01:16:36,280 --> 01:16:37,760
Speaker 7: see whether I agree with it.

1594
01:16:38,560 --> 01:16:40,519
Speaker 2: Still missing, part of it, still missing, but we got

1595
01:16:40,560 --> 01:16:41,519
Speaker 2: a little bit of it right there.

1596
01:16:42,040 --> 01:16:44,000
Speaker 4: Well. Doctor Edwards is one of the four editors of

1597
01:16:44,040 --> 01:16:47,800
Speaker 4: Plockins vaccine books just considered world leading vaccinologists. Okay, but

1598
01:16:48,000 --> 01:16:50,360
Speaker 4: but there is a difference because the vaccinologists are the

1599
01:16:50,400 --> 01:16:53,320
Speaker 4: ones that are really you know, they're the ones that

1600
01:16:53,400 --> 01:16:56,200
Speaker 4: the CDC everybody else relies upon. You know, when I

1601
01:16:56,280 --> 01:17:00,679
Speaker 4: deposed pediatricians, infectious disease doctors or or immunologists, they don't

1602
01:17:00,680 --> 01:17:03,439
Speaker 4: know almost anything about vaccines in my experience. The ones

1603
01:17:03,439 --> 01:17:06,439
Speaker 4: who know, who know, you know, these kind of are

1604
01:17:06,439 --> 01:17:07,400
Speaker 4: the vaccinologists.

1605
01:17:07,600 --> 01:17:07,720
Speaker 7: Right.

1606
01:17:08,920 --> 01:17:11,840
Speaker 4: Doctor Warsh knows more about vaccines than virtually than any

1607
01:17:11,880 --> 01:17:16,040
Speaker 4: pediatrici immunologists or efeccies doctor or vaccine that I've that

1608
01:17:16,120 --> 01:17:19,720
Speaker 4: I've encountered. So because he's looked at it, they don't

1609
01:17:19,720 --> 01:17:20,080
Speaker 4: look at it.

1610
01:17:20,280 --> 01:17:21,400
Speaker 3: That's a very nice thing to say.

1611
01:17:21,640 --> 01:17:24,080
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, and you know, and I want to give

1612
01:17:24,080 --> 01:17:26,000
Speaker 2: you your due here as well. Doctor.

1613
01:17:26,040 --> 01:17:26,439
Speaker 4: You're you.

1614
01:17:27,320 --> 01:17:31,400
Speaker 2: I'm not hearing from you that you're anti these vaccines.

1615
01:17:31,400 --> 01:17:34,120
Speaker 2: I'm hearing that you're you want to make sure everybody

1616
01:17:34,200 --> 01:17:37,960
Speaker 2: has freedom, which is like a crazy idea. Now, I

1617
01:17:38,000 --> 01:17:42,240
Speaker 2: would be convinced potentially on this community immunity if you

1618
01:17:42,280 --> 01:17:45,400
Speaker 2: could make the case to me, okay, because there is

1619
01:17:45,439 --> 01:17:47,439
Speaker 2: a benefit. One of the main things I've ever heard

1620
01:17:47,479 --> 01:17:51,000
Speaker 2: from you. Know, the benefit of vaccines is that you

1621
01:17:51,120 --> 01:17:55,320
Speaker 2: could immunize a whole population and therefore nobody does right. Okay,

1622
01:17:55,400 --> 01:17:58,880
Speaker 2: that is sort of the idea. But I love that

1623
01:17:58,960 --> 01:18:01,560
Speaker 2: you're saying at least if I because my experience is

1624
01:18:01,560 --> 01:18:02,920
Speaker 2: I got looked at like I was a crazy person.

1625
01:18:02,920 --> 01:18:04,320
Speaker 2: I feel like I wouldn't be looked at like that

1626
01:18:04,680 --> 01:18:07,080
Speaker 2: in your office, and you would give me a strategy

1627
01:18:07,120 --> 01:18:09,600
Speaker 2: and a plan of attack to do it. Yeah, I

1628
01:18:09,640 --> 01:18:11,040
Speaker 2: mean the way I was comfortable.

1629
01:18:10,880 --> 01:18:12,840
Speaker 3: If there was some magic pill and you could give

1630
01:18:12,840 --> 01:18:14,880
Speaker 3: that magic pill to your kids and they would never

1631
01:18:14,960 --> 01:18:17,280
Speaker 3: get sick and there would be no consequences. Everybody would

1632
01:18:17,280 --> 01:18:19,400
Speaker 3: line up for that. That's not the reality of the world.

1633
01:18:19,400 --> 01:18:22,760
Speaker 3: The vaccine is not magic. It's a product. We have

1634
01:18:22,880 --> 01:18:25,160
Speaker 3: to weigh the risks versus the benefits, and the question

1635
01:18:25,360 --> 01:18:29,160
Speaker 3: is what are the risks. We have a pretty decent

1636
01:18:29,240 --> 01:18:32,879
Speaker 3: understanding of the benefits. We don't have a full understanding

1637
01:18:32,960 --> 01:18:35,160
Speaker 3: of the risks. And that's the question. And why are

1638
01:18:35,240 --> 01:18:37,799
Speaker 3: we not able to talk about that? Why don't doctors

1639
01:18:37,840 --> 01:18:40,439
Speaker 3: want to know that? I don't understand if they do

1640
01:18:41,240 --> 01:18:43,680
Speaker 3: increase the risk of let's say asthma, Let's say he

1641
01:18:43,760 --> 01:18:46,320
Speaker 3: be increases your risk of asthma by ten times, wouldn't

1642
01:18:46,320 --> 01:18:48,240
Speaker 3: we want to know that? Wouldn't we want to say, hey.

1643
01:18:48,280 --> 01:18:51,200
Speaker 2: Well, but this is the question. Why won't prominent vaccine

1644
01:18:51,240 --> 01:18:55,320
Speaker 2: experts debate skeptics openly? It are we suggesting there's a

1645
01:18:55,360 --> 01:18:58,800
Speaker 2: financial incentive to not do so for them personally or institutionally?

1646
01:18:58,880 --> 01:18:59,760
Speaker 4: Why won't pull off it?

1647
01:18:59,920 --> 01:18:59,960
Speaker 5: It?

1648
01:19:01,000 --> 01:19:04,320
Speaker 4: He can't defend it, not now, Paul, If would not

1649
01:19:04,360 --> 01:19:07,240
Speaker 4: sit here and debate me, there's no question. I don't

1650
01:19:07,240 --> 01:19:10,960
Speaker 4: think he couldn't. The primary sir, He's is indefensible in

1651
01:19:11,040 --> 01:19:12,200
Speaker 4: my view. That's why he won't do it.

1652
01:19:12,360 --> 01:19:14,160
Speaker 3: I would love to hear his opinion, though I would

1653
01:19:14,200 --> 01:19:16,200
Speaker 3: love to be able to ask him these questions very

1654
01:19:16,280 --> 01:19:20,200
Speaker 3: nicely and say convince me otherwise. I'm happy to give

1655
01:19:20,280 --> 01:19:22,719
Speaker 3: kids a million vaccines if they protect you from everything

1656
01:19:22,760 --> 01:19:25,080
Speaker 3: and don't cause any harm. But I don't ever hear

1657
01:19:25,160 --> 01:19:27,720
Speaker 3: the discussions about the harms. That's what happened with hepatetis

1658
01:19:27,760 --> 01:19:29,600
Speaker 3: B this last week. It was all the things you

1659
01:19:29,680 --> 01:19:31,400
Speaker 3: hear on the news are we're going to kill kids.

1660
01:19:31,800 --> 01:19:33,280
Speaker 3: They are going to be people that are gonna get

1661
01:19:33,400 --> 01:19:35,200
Speaker 3: liver cancer, We're gonna get more hepatitis be. But the

1662
01:19:35,280 --> 01:19:37,280
Speaker 3: question is at what costs? How many kids are being

1663
01:19:37,320 --> 01:19:39,120
Speaker 3: harmed by this vaccine when you're giving it to a

1664
01:19:39,160 --> 01:19:41,720
Speaker 3: one day old newborn. They say none, But they don't

1665
01:19:41,760 --> 01:19:44,160
Speaker 3: have the evidence to back that up, because where are

1666
01:19:44,200 --> 01:19:46,760
Speaker 3: those studies? That was never done before the vaccine hit

1667
01:19:46,800 --> 01:19:47,160
Speaker 3: the market.

1668
01:19:47,320 --> 01:19:50,679
Speaker 2: So what can a patient do if their doctor refuses

1669
01:19:50,720 --> 01:19:52,160
Speaker 2: to discuss vaccine options.

1670
01:19:52,400 --> 01:19:54,400
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, if they refuse to discuss vaccine options,

1671
01:19:54,400 --> 01:19:55,679
Speaker 3: then you want to talk about it, then you should

1672
01:19:55,680 --> 01:19:58,240
Speaker 3: find a different doctor. I mean that that's the simple answer, agreed.

1673
01:19:58,400 --> 01:20:00,360
Speaker 2: What if you find yourself like I was in the

1674
01:20:00,720 --> 01:20:04,160
Speaker 2: hospital room and I'm not given options you're talking about

1675
01:20:04,640 --> 01:20:08,200
Speaker 2: you got to step in right, just say you always refuse.

1676
01:20:08,280 --> 01:20:10,160
Speaker 3: Put your foot down and you say no, there are

1677
01:20:10,200 --> 01:20:12,280
Speaker 3: no mandates to get a vaccine. There are there are

1678
01:20:12,600 --> 01:20:13,320
Speaker 3: rules for school.

1679
01:20:13,439 --> 01:20:13,599
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1680
01:20:13,640 --> 01:20:15,479
Speaker 2: I was gonna say, so go back to California. You're

1681
01:20:15,680 --> 01:20:19,519
Speaker 2: you're in California, right, correct? So sent my kids to

1682
01:20:19,560 --> 01:20:22,799
Speaker 2: a Christian school. Thought we'd have more options explore religious freedoms.

1683
01:20:22,880 --> 01:20:24,600
Speaker 2: There was none. This is I remember being in the

1684
01:20:24,640 --> 01:20:28,360
Speaker 2: shows telling Charlie, tell them to get religious freedom for California.

1685
01:20:28,360 --> 01:20:30,519
Speaker 2: And and you know, even hhs Iss sent well, it's

1686
01:20:30,560 --> 01:20:32,280
Speaker 2: a state based issue. We can't do anything about it.

1687
01:20:32,520 --> 01:20:34,439
Speaker 2: Are you suing California for this kind of stuff? Please

1688
01:20:34,479 --> 01:20:34,680
Speaker 2: tell me?

1689
01:20:34,720 --> 01:20:36,760
Speaker 4: I do have a lawsuit in California. We restored the

1690
01:20:36,800 --> 01:20:39,880
Speaker 4: exemption in mississip while they we restored the exempt of Mississippi.

1691
01:20:39,880 --> 01:20:43,000
Speaker 4: Weve got a federal court decision that restored a religious

1692
01:20:43,000 --> 01:20:46,680
Speaker 4: exemption there. We we just we're in the middle of

1693
01:20:46,760 --> 01:20:48,559
Speaker 4: doing it in West Virginia. Please.

1694
01:20:48,840 --> 01:20:50,840
Speaker 2: Is that the answer though? And I want to get

1695
01:20:50,880 --> 01:20:53,120
Speaker 2: you in because I know you're you've got something important here,

1696
01:20:53,160 --> 01:20:56,720
Speaker 2: But what is that the answer? Or is there a

1697
01:20:56,840 --> 01:21:00,760
Speaker 2: more wide sweeping answer we need to sue to this

1698
01:21:02,000 --> 01:21:04,320
Speaker 2: issue of medical autonomy, medical freedom.

1699
01:21:05,080 --> 01:21:08,040
Speaker 4: You want my a little bit longer answers, yes, please, okay.

1700
01:21:08,200 --> 01:21:09,800
Speaker 4: Here here is my little bit longer answer to that.

1701
01:21:12,040 --> 01:21:15,840
Speaker 4: The answer is that, yes, we should have freedom. You know,

1702
01:21:16,400 --> 01:21:19,520
Speaker 4: this country was founded on the the as a rebellion

1703
01:21:19,560 --> 01:21:23,879
Speaker 4: against the idea that there's some central authority, some central government,

1704
01:21:24,080 --> 01:21:25,800
Speaker 4: a king, a dictator, whatever it was, that should make

1705
01:21:25,840 --> 01:21:28,639
Speaker 4: the decisions for you. It was bounded on the idea

1706
01:21:28,720 --> 01:21:31,320
Speaker 4: that we should all have individual and civil rights so

1707
01:21:31,320 --> 01:21:33,160
Speaker 4: that there was enabled the rights given to us by

1708
01:21:33,200 --> 01:21:36,799
Speaker 4: our maker. And to be sure, freedoms come with dangers.

1709
01:21:37,200 --> 01:21:39,240
Speaker 4: Letting how people have freedom of speech comes with danger,

1710
01:21:39,320 --> 01:21:41,559
Speaker 4: and assemble who they want, and you talk.

1711
01:21:41,479 --> 01:21:45,000
Speaker 2: About cars, religion, who they want, freedom to have cars, cars.

1712
01:21:44,800 --> 01:21:47,640
Speaker 4: Everything comes with a risk. But we have struck the

1713
01:21:47,720 --> 01:21:50,200
Speaker 4: balance in this country that we should always err on

1714
01:21:50,280 --> 01:21:54,160
Speaker 4: the side of letting individuals make their choice over letting

1715
01:21:54,200 --> 01:21:56,280
Speaker 4: the government make the choice, because the second you say

1716
01:21:56,320 --> 01:21:58,360
Speaker 4: somebody else would choose, it always ends up being the government,

1717
01:21:58,680 --> 01:22:01,679
Speaker 4: and that always creates problems the long run. Always okay,

1718
01:22:02,479 --> 01:22:04,920
Speaker 4: and so and when you also look at the long

1719
01:22:05,040 --> 01:22:08,719
Speaker 4: arc of history, okay, in my opinion, what's caused more harm,

1720
01:22:09,320 --> 01:22:12,519
Speaker 4: devastation to humanity than any pestilence or anything else. It

1721
01:22:12,720 --> 01:22:15,280
Speaker 4: is the idea that that that individuals shouldn't have rights

1722
01:22:15,320 --> 01:22:17,360
Speaker 4: and freedoms, that the government should suppress and do what

1723
01:22:17,400 --> 01:22:19,120
Speaker 4: they want. And what and how do they do that? Typically,

1724
01:22:19,840 --> 01:22:21,320
Speaker 4: how does the government get what they want?

1725
01:22:21,520 --> 01:22:23,439
Speaker 2: Coercion mandates exactly.

1726
01:22:23,760 --> 01:22:25,639
Speaker 4: It starts slowly, a little bit of coursion, a little

1727
01:22:25,640 --> 01:22:27,320
Speaker 4: more and a little more, and then manage. It's in

1728
01:22:27,479 --> 01:22:30,080
Speaker 4: censorship because when the government has a policy.

1729
01:22:29,760 --> 01:22:32,840
Speaker 2: And provoking licenses, then you know, using the force.

1730
01:22:33,439 --> 01:22:35,519
Speaker 4: And when do they do that. They do that when

1731
01:22:35,560 --> 01:22:38,400
Speaker 4: they can't persuade you on the merits, Okay, that's when

1732
01:22:38,439 --> 01:22:40,840
Speaker 4: they do it. The government should try to persuade you

1733
01:22:40,920 --> 01:22:43,479
Speaker 4: in the merits. Vaccines. They spend billions of dollars a

1734
01:22:43,600 --> 01:22:48,240
Speaker 4: year promoting vaccines, billions already promoting them. Okay, they and

1735
01:22:48,280 --> 01:22:51,320
Speaker 4: they act like anti anti vaxxers whatever again that means

1736
01:22:51,640 --> 01:22:55,600
Speaker 4: okay or somehow this huge thing, it's not it's not

1737
01:22:55,720 --> 01:22:59,280
Speaker 4: a it's it's the families you've hindered. In my opinion,

1738
01:22:59,280 --> 01:23:02,120
Speaker 4: the reason, Bobby's because there are millions who have been

1739
01:23:02,160 --> 01:23:04,760
Speaker 4: neglily affected by vaccines. And people always say to me, well,

1740
01:23:05,680 --> 01:23:07,960
Speaker 4: you know vaccines calls harm, I would know it. I'd say,

1741
01:23:08,000 --> 01:23:09,400
Speaker 4: do you know the last three drugs that came off

1742
01:23:09,439 --> 01:23:12,920
Speaker 4: the market. You don't, you know why? And general harms

1743
01:23:12,960 --> 01:23:14,920
Speaker 4: are caused because they didn't affect you and your family,

1744
01:23:15,160 --> 01:23:17,560
Speaker 4: so good for you. And if vaccines didn't harm you,

1745
01:23:18,080 --> 01:23:19,920
Speaker 4: good for you, So you wouldn't know it. But for

1746
01:23:20,040 --> 01:23:24,160
Speaker 4: those that it did, it did, and they're there now.

1747
01:23:25,280 --> 01:23:30,720
Speaker 4: Mandates are the use is are what bullies, terrances and

1748
01:23:30,760 --> 01:23:32,839
Speaker 4: dictators use. And they can't get their way on persuasion,

1749
01:23:32,920 --> 01:23:35,000
Speaker 4: on the merits, and so I don't think there should

1750
01:23:35,000 --> 01:23:37,200
Speaker 4: be any mandates of these products periods. So they answer

1751
01:23:37,200 --> 01:23:42,200
Speaker 4: your question. Religious exemption is a substitute, so to speak.

1752
01:23:42,479 --> 01:23:44,720
Speaker 4: But no, there shouldn't be mandates at all persuade in

1753
01:23:44,720 --> 01:23:46,920
Speaker 4: matters what Florida is doing. By the way, Denmark has

1754
01:23:46,960 --> 01:23:49,559
Speaker 4: no mandates. Sweden has no man marked Flinland has no mandates.

1755
01:23:49,760 --> 01:23:52,320
Speaker 4: Most provinces of Canada have no man same thing in Australia.

1756
01:23:52,920 --> 01:23:55,680
Speaker 3: Analytic states here, Yeah, there are many states. We're not

1757
01:23:55,760 --> 01:23:59,760
Speaker 3: seeing massive outbreaks even though they have religious freedom and

1758
01:24:00,040 --> 01:24:01,200
Speaker 3: personal belief exemptions.

1759
01:24:01,520 --> 01:24:04,200
Speaker 4: Check the box, so check the box. Exemptions the only

1760
01:24:04,240 --> 01:24:06,720
Speaker 4: ones that don't in our Cali, New York, Maine, in Connecticut,

1761
01:24:07,000 --> 01:24:08,120
Speaker 4: and West Virginia is in the works.

1762
01:24:08,200 --> 01:24:09,599
Speaker 2: That's it West Virginia.

1763
01:24:09,840 --> 01:24:13,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, interesting, it's Governor more Say is totally on the

1764
01:24:13,680 --> 01:24:16,200
Speaker 4: side of the storing of an exemption there. So the

1765
01:24:16,280 --> 01:24:21,000
Speaker 4: point is that and just like Joel just said, forty

1766
01:24:21,040 --> 01:24:24,840
Speaker 4: five stays to check the box exemptions. That's worked just fine.

1767
01:24:25,280 --> 01:24:27,679
Speaker 3: And let's not forget. Doctor is literally the word do sayer.

1768
01:24:27,720 --> 01:24:30,240
Speaker 3: It means to teach. It's not to force, right, My

1769
01:24:30,439 --> 01:24:33,200
Speaker 3: job is not to force somebody to do anything. That

1770
01:24:33,439 --> 01:24:36,840
Speaker 3: was never the job. Why are we here to force

1771
01:24:36,920 --> 01:24:39,120
Speaker 3: a vaccine on somebody that doesn't want it. Our job

1772
01:24:39,200 --> 01:24:41,960
Speaker 3: is to educate. If I believe so strongly in vaccines,

1773
01:24:41,960 --> 01:24:44,240
Speaker 3: I should be able to give you that information that

1774
01:24:44,320 --> 01:24:46,639
Speaker 3: will convince you that this product is good for your child.

1775
01:24:46,800 --> 01:24:50,479
Speaker 2: So I'm cognizant of the fact. Sorry, I promise you

1776
01:24:50,600 --> 01:24:53,519
Speaker 2: that I'm like sorry, Riley, by all means, if you

1777
01:24:53,600 --> 01:24:56,800
Speaker 2: have questions here, okay, all right, formulate your your next one.

1778
01:24:58,439 --> 01:25:02,600
Speaker 2: What I don't want to do is too on the

1779
01:25:02,640 --> 01:25:06,920
Speaker 2: show is to make people more confused. Maybe this is

1780
01:25:06,960 --> 01:25:10,800
Speaker 2: the wrong question, but directed as you will, how many

1781
01:25:10,880 --> 01:25:14,040
Speaker 2: you have kids, right, I do. Okay, is there one

1782
01:25:14,320 --> 01:25:18,479
Speaker 2: or two vaccines that like, or three or four that

1783
01:25:18,600 --> 01:25:20,320
Speaker 2: you're like, no, no, no, that that's a good one.

1784
01:25:20,400 --> 01:25:22,439
Speaker 2: We were talking about vitamin K before we came on it,

1785
01:25:22,720 --> 01:25:24,640
Speaker 2: you know. I just it's things like that that like,

1786
01:25:25,200 --> 01:25:28,120
Speaker 2: don't please, don't get these things lost in the shuffle

1787
01:25:28,240 --> 01:25:32,080
Speaker 2: as we're talking about all these other you know, conversations

1788
01:25:32,080 --> 01:25:35,479
Speaker 2: about medical autonomy and freedom of choice and doing what's

1789
01:25:35,520 --> 01:25:38,240
Speaker 2: in the best informed consent all this is there stuff

1790
01:25:38,240 --> 01:25:40,720
Speaker 2: that they like, please don't get throw the baby out

1791
01:25:40,760 --> 01:25:42,280
Speaker 2: with the bathwater, so to speak.

1792
01:25:42,520 --> 01:25:44,559
Speaker 3: So, I mean, that's the question I get up asked

1793
01:25:44,640 --> 01:25:47,959
Speaker 3: the most is what should I do? What's the best vaccines?

1794
01:25:48,040 --> 01:25:49,960
Speaker 3: And the answer is you have to go back and

1795
01:25:50,000 --> 01:25:53,120
Speaker 3: weigh the risks and the benefits. There isn't anything hard.

1796
01:25:53,520 --> 01:25:54,040
Speaker 4: I understand.

1797
01:25:54,080 --> 01:25:57,280
Speaker 2: We have full time jobs. We are teaching baseball, we

1798
01:25:57,400 --> 01:25:59,439
Speaker 2: got you know, but we're just trying to survive.

1799
01:25:59,600 --> 01:26:01,759
Speaker 3: And if you want to defer to the CDC's schedule,

1800
01:26:01,840 --> 01:26:03,400
Speaker 3: you can do that. If you want to go outside

1801
01:26:03,400 --> 01:26:07,080
Speaker 3: of the CDC's schedule resources though, like yes, you could

1802
01:26:07,080 --> 01:26:09,000
Speaker 3: trust advice, but the way that you do it is

1803
01:26:09,080 --> 01:26:11,040
Speaker 3: you have to look at Okay, what could kill my kid?

1804
01:26:11,360 --> 01:26:14,120
Speaker 3: What is actually around, what's less likely for them to

1805
01:26:14,160 --> 01:26:15,920
Speaker 3: get where they probably not going to get, and then

1806
01:26:15,960 --> 01:26:18,439
Speaker 3: what are the known risks and what are the benefits?

1807
01:26:18,520 --> 01:26:19,800
Speaker 3: You have to wait like that. We know that there's

1808
01:26:19,840 --> 01:26:23,040
Speaker 3: measles around, we know that there is whooping off around,

1809
01:26:23,880 --> 01:26:26,200
Speaker 3: very unlikely to get very sick from morotavirus, very unlikely

1810
01:26:26,280 --> 01:26:29,160
Speaker 3: to get very sick from hepatitis, be very unlikely to

1811
01:26:29,240 --> 01:26:32,400
Speaker 3: get very sick from chicken pox. HAMOFUS influenza can make

1812
01:26:32,439 --> 01:26:34,960
Speaker 3: you very sick, though it's very rare. New Mo caucus

1813
01:26:35,120 --> 01:26:38,439
Speaker 3: is a little bit more prevalent, but still could make

1814
01:26:38,479 --> 01:26:39,920
Speaker 3: you very sick. So you can weigh it like that.

1815
01:26:40,120 --> 01:26:42,120
Speaker 3: But ultimately, any kid could get anything.

1816
01:26:41,920 --> 01:26:45,160
Speaker 2: If you're traveling. So like, because it's a basic question,

1817
01:26:45,240 --> 01:26:47,439
Speaker 2: So we asked a bunch of the moms to send

1818
01:26:47,479 --> 01:26:49,360
Speaker 2: in questions and it was like, does my child need

1819
01:26:49,400 --> 01:26:52,080
Speaker 2: any shots? It's simple, but it's a main one if

1820
01:26:52,120 --> 01:26:53,479
Speaker 2: they don't travel outside of the US.

1821
01:26:53,640 --> 01:26:53,760
Speaker 7: Is that?

1822
01:26:53,920 --> 01:26:57,760
Speaker 2: Like the point is like, can somebody be completely safe

1823
01:26:57,800 --> 01:26:59,800
Speaker 2: and fine and healthy if they don't get any shots?

1824
01:27:00,080 --> 01:27:02,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, of course, I mean they're there are most of

1825
01:27:02,120 --> 01:27:05,080
Speaker 3: these diseases are very rare and even if you get them,

1826
01:27:05,400 --> 01:27:07,760
Speaker 3: you are very unlikely to get extremely sick. But it

1827
01:27:08,000 --> 01:27:10,439
Speaker 3: is possible. People die have the flu, people di have measles,

1828
01:27:10,520 --> 01:27:12,240
Speaker 3: people have kids have died of whooping cops, so you

1829
01:27:12,320 --> 01:27:14,519
Speaker 3: could be that one kid that gets very sick. It's

1830
01:27:14,760 --> 01:27:18,640
Speaker 3: very unlikely. If everybody stops vaccinating from measles, will it

1831
01:27:18,720 --> 01:27:21,840
Speaker 3: be more prevalent. Yeah, that's probably true. There are probably

1832
01:27:21,920 --> 01:27:24,439
Speaker 3: more people to get it, so we have to any

1833
01:27:24,479 --> 01:27:26,720
Speaker 3: context that died from it. I mean there will, We'll

1834
01:27:26,760 --> 01:27:26,960
Speaker 3: get it.

1835
01:27:27,000 --> 01:27:28,680
Speaker 2: That's there's a ratio there, right, So that's the.

1836
01:27:28,680 --> 01:27:30,560
Speaker 3: Same thing with Heppie, like for this new for the

1837
01:27:30,640 --> 01:27:33,360
Speaker 3: new recognenation, will more kids get hepatetis B Probably?

1838
01:27:33,479 --> 01:27:35,960
Speaker 2: But few you're you're some of the data that you've

1839
01:27:36,000 --> 01:27:38,639
Speaker 2: looked at suggests that if you're if you get measles

1840
01:27:39,280 --> 01:27:42,160
Speaker 2: or like normally in nature, that you might have other

1841
01:27:42,479 --> 01:27:45,479
Speaker 2: potential benefits, which which is something that people parents should

1842
01:27:45,479 --> 01:27:45,840
Speaker 2: look into.

1843
01:27:46,080 --> 01:27:49,880
Speaker 4: Well, yeah, it's it's the data directly on pub med

1844
01:27:50,120 --> 01:27:53,880
Speaker 4: and kids that have had measles and moms. Okay, this

1845
01:27:54,120 --> 01:27:57,240
Speaker 4: data is this is there's no data that contradicts the

1846
01:27:57,320 --> 01:28:01,600
Speaker 4: study to climb and in cardiovasler deaths. Think about that

1847
01:28:01,720 --> 01:28:04,880
Speaker 4: cardiovaskerges kills nine hundred thousand Americans a year. If it

1848
01:28:04,920 --> 01:28:07,120
Speaker 4: has a twenty percent decline, think about how many life

1849
01:28:07,280 --> 01:28:11,960
Speaker 4: years saved or loss that is even you know, even

1850
01:28:12,000 --> 01:28:14,120
Speaker 4: when you compare it to it, even if it's one percent.

1851
01:28:14,280 --> 01:28:19,120
Speaker 4: Even if it's one percent decline, right, increase in cardiovassler deaths,

1852
01:28:19,439 --> 01:28:21,600
Speaker 4: your public health benefit has gone upside down. Let me

1853
01:28:21,640 --> 01:28:24,920
Speaker 4: tell you something. Pathogens over time come and gone right

1854
01:28:24,960 --> 01:28:27,320
Speaker 4: throughout the eons, they come and they go. Measles hasn't

1855
01:28:27,800 --> 01:28:29,760
Speaker 4: It could be that maybe God didn't mess up. Maybe

1856
01:28:29,760 --> 01:28:33,519
Speaker 4: there was an evolutionary knological reason that measles around. I'm

1857
01:28:33,520 --> 01:28:35,519
Speaker 4: not saying there was, I'm just saying that that data

1858
01:28:35,840 --> 01:28:39,080
Speaker 4: appears to reflect that. Also, Studies that show, for example,

1859
01:28:39,439 --> 01:28:42,639
Speaker 4: that kids that have had measles versus those that don't, okay,

1860
01:28:43,360 --> 01:28:47,840
Speaker 4: have of a sixty six percent reduction in Hotginson foma

1861
01:28:47,880 --> 01:28:50,200
Speaker 4: and one hundred and sixty six percent reduction in non

1862
01:28:50,280 --> 01:28:52,880
Speaker 4: hospitals of foma that killed twenty thousand people last year,

1863
01:28:52,920 --> 01:28:55,839
Speaker 4: a lot of them kids. Okay. Again, if having measles

1864
01:28:56,160 --> 01:28:59,880
Speaker 4: reduces that rate, then you again your public health benefits

1865
01:29:00,080 --> 01:29:03,200
Speaker 4: upside down now I'll point to one of the data

1866
01:29:03,280 --> 01:29:05,080
Speaker 4: points and then I'll stop and I'll just point it

1867
01:29:05,120 --> 01:29:07,720
Speaker 4: to this. In the early nineteen eighties, there's data that

1868
01:29:07,800 --> 01:29:09,360
Speaker 4: reflect the less than ten percent of kids had a

1869
01:29:09,439 --> 01:29:13,519
Speaker 4: chronic health condition in America. Today it's over forty percent,

1870
01:29:13,960 --> 01:29:17,040
Speaker 4: some data showing over fifty and often multiple times. And

1871
01:29:17,120 --> 01:29:19,920
Speaker 4: what are those chronic health conditions that have gone through

1872
01:29:19,960 --> 01:29:22,320
Speaker 4: the roof. Almost all of them have some basis on

1873
01:29:22,520 --> 01:29:26,120
Speaker 4: some form of immune system just regulation where there's asthma

1874
01:29:26,240 --> 01:29:29,960
Speaker 4: and a topic issue. Even eightyhd is has its ideology.

1875
01:29:30,000 --> 01:29:32,760
Speaker 4: If you look at the sunderlying science in biomarkers will

1876
01:29:32,760 --> 01:29:36,479
Speaker 4: show to some form of immune system dysfunction. Okay, what

1877
01:29:36,600 --> 01:29:38,600
Speaker 4: has caused the immune system of our children to go?

1878
01:29:39,120 --> 01:29:41,519
Speaker 2: Well, that's a most billion dollar question.

1879
01:29:41,760 --> 01:29:45,080
Speaker 8: Well, let me tell you it's not that. Let me

1880
01:29:45,160 --> 01:29:46,880
Speaker 8: put it this way. Okay, I mean, let me tell

1881
01:29:46,920 --> 01:29:48,960
Speaker 8: you where to start. I have to say, you're not

1882
01:29:49,080 --> 01:29:51,720
Speaker 8: a doctor, right, I just want to say, like I'm

1883
01:29:51,760 --> 01:29:51,960
Speaker 8: not a.

1884
01:29:52,000 --> 01:29:53,479
Speaker 4: Doctor, I'm gott to tell you a place to start

1885
01:29:53,560 --> 01:29:56,479
Speaker 4: based on logic, common sense. I think. Okay, my ten

1886
01:29:56,520 --> 01:29:58,600
Speaker 4: year old give you this answer. Okay, you don't need

1887
01:29:58,600 --> 01:30:00,320
Speaker 4: to be you don't need to have any He agrees

1888
01:30:00,360 --> 01:30:02,920
Speaker 4: to give this an answer. Why don't you start with

1889
01:30:03,120 --> 01:30:07,160
Speaker 4: ruling out the products that you now inject twenty nine times,

1890
01:30:07,640 --> 01:30:10,439
Speaker 4: specifically to modify the immune system by the first birthday?

1891
01:30:10,720 --> 01:30:12,920
Speaker 4: Rule those out. You know what, the medical community can't

1892
01:30:12,920 --> 01:30:14,160
Speaker 4: tell you right now. They can't tell you what to

1893
01:30:14,240 --> 01:30:15,640
Speaker 4: calls and all that stuff for themay.

1894
01:30:15,360 --> 01:30:16,559
Speaker 3: Can I pick it back because I think it's really

1895
01:30:16,560 --> 01:30:18,320
Speaker 3: important to go back to your question where you said

1896
01:30:18,320 --> 01:30:21,160
Speaker 3: about what should I do to me? That is the

1897
01:30:21,320 --> 01:30:24,400
Speaker 3: most confusing part is the understanding of what are these

1898
01:30:24,479 --> 01:30:29,840
Speaker 3: long term risks? Are vaccines related to asthma, allergies, autoimmune condition, autism,

1899
01:30:30,720 --> 01:30:33,639
Speaker 3: all of these things matter because if they're not related

1900
01:30:33,680 --> 01:30:35,080
Speaker 3: to those in any way, and we do all the

1901
01:30:35,120 --> 01:30:37,840
Speaker 3: research and we find that, that really changes the equation.

1902
01:30:37,880 --> 01:30:40,280
Speaker 3: When you say, oh, well there's we're preventing one be okay,

1903
01:30:40,320 --> 01:30:43,320
Speaker 3: that's good. But if it's creating all of these other problems,

1904
01:30:43,640 --> 01:30:45,840
Speaker 3: then we need to know that because that changes the

1905
01:30:45,920 --> 01:30:49,000
Speaker 3: risk benefit calculation. Where you say, okay, well, now we're

1906
01:30:49,040 --> 01:30:51,880
Speaker 3: doing all these vaccines. What if we just prioritize the

1907
01:30:51,960 --> 01:30:54,240
Speaker 3: few and that can bring it down. It's not about

1908
01:30:54,680 --> 01:30:58,080
Speaker 3: not wanting to protect kids from disease, you also want

1909
01:30:58,160 --> 01:31:00,160
Speaker 3: to protect them from chronic disease, and so you have

1910
01:31:00,240 --> 01:31:02,680
Speaker 3: to balance those two things. We don't want anybody to

1911
01:31:02,760 --> 01:31:05,800
Speaker 3: be sick. But if vaccines are related in some way

1912
01:31:05,880 --> 01:31:08,639
Speaker 3: to chronic disease, we need to know that, and there

1913
01:31:08,720 --> 01:31:12,360
Speaker 3: is no way right now that we are studying to

1914
01:31:12,560 --> 01:31:15,320
Speaker 3: figure that out. You have to follow kids forward, vaccinate

1915
01:31:15,400 --> 01:31:16,040
Speaker 3: verson vaccine.

1916
01:31:16,040 --> 01:31:16,680
Speaker 2: We have to do that.

1917
01:31:17,280 --> 01:31:18,519
Speaker 4: We have to we have to do that.

1918
01:31:18,640 --> 01:31:22,440
Speaker 3: We we only have epidemiology, and epidemiology can be adjusted

1919
01:31:22,920 --> 01:31:26,599
Speaker 3: and massaged based on the person's predetermined beliefs. And that's

1920
01:31:26,640 --> 01:31:29,320
Speaker 3: why sometimes you see a very pro vaccine person find

1921
01:31:29,400 --> 01:31:31,880
Speaker 3: very pro vaccine findings, then a pretty anti vaccine person

1922
01:31:31,960 --> 01:31:34,560
Speaker 3: finds something that's not because you can adjust it to

1923
01:31:34,640 --> 01:31:36,760
Speaker 3: find what you're looking to find. The only way to

1924
01:31:36,840 --> 01:31:39,200
Speaker 3: answer the question, in my opinion, the only way for

1925
01:31:39,280 --> 01:31:41,080
Speaker 3: me to be able to tell you what you should

1926
01:31:41,479 --> 01:31:44,280
Speaker 3: do is to know what are the risks. Then I

1927
01:31:44,360 --> 01:31:46,960
Speaker 3: can weigh those two things, and I can say, your

1928
01:31:47,040 --> 01:31:49,680
Speaker 3: benefit from this vaccine outweighs your risk.

1929
01:31:49,840 --> 01:31:54,799
Speaker 2: There like a central database where like minded doctors like yourself,

1930
01:31:55,920 --> 01:32:00,439
Speaker 2: you know, so example, so somebody there, a few might

1931
01:32:00,479 --> 01:32:03,080
Speaker 2: be listening to this, and you know, they might be

1932
01:32:03,160 --> 01:32:05,360
Speaker 2: living in Columbus, Ohio, and they're like, well, I can't

1933
01:32:05,360 --> 01:32:08,559
Speaker 2: get out to La or whatever where you live. Could

1934
01:32:09,080 --> 01:32:11,320
Speaker 2: is there, like, could they find somebody that you would

1935
01:32:11,520 --> 01:32:14,719
Speaker 2: you know that you might be like minded? Yeah, in Columbus,

1936
01:32:14,760 --> 01:32:15,680
Speaker 2: But how do they find you?

1937
01:32:15,720 --> 01:32:17,080
Speaker 3: Ask the other parents that are holistic.

1938
01:32:17,400 --> 01:32:19,720
Speaker 2: You know, there's no real like easy.

1939
01:32:19,520 --> 01:32:21,400
Speaker 4: Way to find you want or you want to create

1940
01:32:21,400 --> 01:32:23,760
Speaker 4: a target list for them for them of the list

1941
01:32:23,840 --> 01:32:24,400
Speaker 4: of documents.

1942
01:32:24,960 --> 01:32:26,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, see, I feel that's part.

1943
01:32:26,479 --> 01:32:27,000
Speaker 4: Of the problem.

1944
01:32:27,240 --> 01:32:28,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's part of the problem.

1945
01:32:28,240 --> 01:32:31,040
Speaker 5: Okay, we have other questions for moms, so so yeah,

1946
01:32:31,080 --> 01:32:33,760
Speaker 5: another mom sent in this question, which kind of piggybackspace

1947
01:32:33,800 --> 01:32:36,080
Speaker 5: off what you were just talking about. Is many parents

1948
01:32:36,160 --> 01:32:39,599
Speaker 5: say that their child is changed after having vaccination vaccines,

1949
01:32:40,600 --> 01:32:44,840
Speaker 5: especially after obviously vaccine. How should doctors respond in a

1950
01:32:44,880 --> 01:32:47,639
Speaker 5: way that respects the parent but is also evidence based.

1951
01:32:48,320 --> 01:32:50,240
Speaker 3: Well, we should be listening to parents. I mean, this

1952
01:32:50,360 --> 01:32:53,800
Speaker 3: is the craziest part of the whole vaccine autism world,

1953
01:32:53,880 --> 01:32:55,880
Speaker 3: which you bring that up and then doctors say, oh,

1954
01:32:55,920 --> 01:32:59,040
Speaker 3: there's no proof, we don't have proof that ice cream

1955
01:32:59,360 --> 01:33:02,280
Speaker 3: causes autism, And I'm like, well, okay, true. You don't

1956
01:33:02,280 --> 01:33:04,400
Speaker 3: have a study to prove that, but there are hundreds

1957
01:33:04,439 --> 01:33:06,280
Speaker 3: of thousands, or at least tens of thousands of parents

1958
01:33:06,280 --> 01:33:09,000
Speaker 3: probably hundred thousands, maybe millions, that have said, after my

1959
01:33:09,120 --> 01:33:12,400
Speaker 3: kid got a vaccine, this happened. That's important data. It's

1960
01:33:12,439 --> 01:33:17,280
Speaker 3: not some random piece of information parents say this. This

1961
01:33:17,479 --> 01:33:19,880
Speaker 3: is not an anti vaccine parent. This is literally a

1962
01:33:20,000 --> 01:33:22,400
Speaker 3: parent who went into get a vaccine and they swear

1963
01:33:22,439 --> 01:33:24,800
Speaker 3: their kid was acting one way the day before and

1964
01:33:24,880 --> 01:33:27,800
Speaker 3: different the day after. Why would we not listen to

1965
01:33:27,920 --> 01:33:30,120
Speaker 3: those parents? That's the data that we need. We have

1966
01:33:30,200 --> 01:33:32,679
Speaker 3: to figure out are there some genetics, is there something

1967
01:33:32,720 --> 01:33:35,639
Speaker 3: else that they're doing? Why are those kids having those reactions?

1968
01:33:35,720 --> 01:33:38,040
Speaker 3: Some of them are probably coincidental, that's for sure. I mean,

1969
01:33:38,080 --> 01:33:39,360
Speaker 3: you get a vaccine this morning, you might have a

1970
01:33:39,520 --> 01:33:42,080
Speaker 3: heart attack this afternoon. But if millions of people have

1971
01:33:42,120 --> 01:33:43,920
Speaker 3: a heart attack on the same day they get a vaccine,

1972
01:33:43,960 --> 01:33:46,240
Speaker 3: shouldn't just say, hm, maybe it's a vaccine. Shouldn't we

1973
01:33:46,280 --> 01:33:46,680
Speaker 3: study that?

1974
01:33:47,080 --> 01:33:49,080
Speaker 5: But these moms don't feel like they're being listened to.

1975
01:33:49,160 --> 01:33:51,640
Speaker 3: They're not being listened to. They they haven't been and

1976
01:33:51,720 --> 01:33:54,799
Speaker 3: that's hopefully what's going to change. Hopefully if we continue

1977
01:33:54,840 --> 01:33:56,800
Speaker 3: to have these conversations. We're not gonna look at a

1978
01:33:56,880 --> 01:33:59,560
Speaker 3: parent who thinks that a vaccine caused their child's a

1979
01:33:59,600 --> 01:34:02,040
Speaker 3: problem and call them an anti vaxxer, call them crazy.

1980
01:34:02,280 --> 01:34:04,680
Speaker 3: They're not crazy. They have an experience. We need to

1981
01:34:04,800 --> 01:34:07,640
Speaker 3: listen to that experience and we need to study it

1982
01:34:07,720 --> 01:34:09,240
Speaker 3: so that way we can figure out if it is

1983
01:34:09,320 --> 01:34:12,479
Speaker 3: true or not. If vaccines are related to autism. Why

1984
01:34:12,600 --> 01:34:15,160
Speaker 3: don't we want to know that it's not because we

1985
01:34:15,240 --> 01:34:17,160
Speaker 3: don't want to ever give a kid a vaccine again.

1986
01:34:17,520 --> 01:34:19,320
Speaker 3: Wouldn't you want to know so you could say, hey,

1987
01:34:19,720 --> 01:34:21,920
Speaker 3: well that vaccine looks like it's increasing your risk of

1988
01:34:21,960 --> 01:34:26,200
Speaker 3: ezema by twenty times. Why is there an ingredient in there?

1989
01:34:26,240 --> 01:34:28,160
Speaker 3: Can we change that ingredient? Can we change the schedule?

1990
01:34:28,200 --> 01:34:29,679
Speaker 3: Can we do something different? We don't have to stop

1991
01:34:29,760 --> 01:34:32,360
Speaker 3: vaccine yting ever again. We could change it. We've done

1992
01:34:32,400 --> 01:34:36,799
Speaker 3: that before. So why can't we have those discussions. It's insane.

1993
01:34:36,840 --> 01:34:39,040
Speaker 3: We want to protect kids. We want them to be healthy,

1994
01:34:39,040 --> 01:34:41,280
Speaker 3: we want them not to get infections and not to

1995
01:34:41,400 --> 01:34:44,800
Speaker 3: have chronic conditions. So we need to start listening to

1996
01:34:44,840 --> 01:34:48,040
Speaker 3: these parents. And I hope that people are starting to

1997
01:34:48,160 --> 01:34:50,120
Speaker 3: connect and to understand that they're not the only ones.

1998
01:34:50,160 --> 01:34:52,280
Speaker 3: There are many many people that feel this way. He

1999
01:34:52,400 --> 01:34:54,360
Speaker 3: sees them all the time. I get some of them,

2000
01:34:54,400 --> 01:34:56,400
Speaker 3: but not as many as he probably sees. But it's

2001
01:34:56,439 --> 01:34:57,599
Speaker 3: important that we come together.

2002
01:34:58,400 --> 01:35:02,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just find I mean, there's what I'm hopeful

2003
01:35:02,400 --> 01:35:05,320
Speaker 2: that we are doing here is we're educating about some

2004
01:35:05,400 --> 01:35:08,400
Speaker 2: of the underlying science that I think that you guys

2005
01:35:08,439 --> 01:35:12,040
Speaker 2: have done brilliantly. But these you know, we were just

2006
01:35:12,120 --> 01:35:16,479
Speaker 2: with Marina, who's our CMO. She's pregnant at she's CMO

2007
01:35:16,520 --> 01:35:19,559
Speaker 2: of Turning Point USA. She stopped by and she all

2008
01:35:19,960 --> 01:35:21,439
Speaker 2: she finds out you're here, and she's like, well, I

2009
01:35:21,479 --> 01:35:23,479
Speaker 2: actually do have questions, you know. And they're trying to

2010
01:35:23,520 --> 01:35:26,840
Speaker 2: get her to her doctor Petrush or her OBI said,

2011
01:35:27,760 --> 01:35:29,600
Speaker 2: you've got you have to get three shots. You have

2012
01:35:29,680 --> 01:35:32,280
Speaker 2: to get a flu shot, an RSV shot and was

2013
01:35:32,320 --> 01:35:37,000
Speaker 2: it whooping cough? Was it okay? So and she was like,

2014
01:35:37,439 --> 01:35:39,680
Speaker 2: oh wait, what like I have to get these for

2015
01:35:39,920 --> 01:35:43,160
Speaker 2: my baby at this point, like so, what can I know?

2016
01:35:43,200 --> 01:35:45,240
Speaker 2: We dumping around here, We're doing a little rapid fire

2017
01:35:45,280 --> 01:35:48,519
Speaker 2: for a clothes here, But what is what should moms

2018
01:35:48,560 --> 01:35:52,040
Speaker 2: be knowledgeable about when they're being told they need to

2019
01:35:52,080 --> 01:35:55,680
Speaker 2: get in utero vaccines basically like, but when they're when

2020
01:35:55,720 --> 01:35:57,960
Speaker 2: they're still pregnant, as opposed to for their baby.

2021
01:35:58,080 --> 01:35:59,479
Speaker 3: Well, I think you need to be aware of what's

2022
01:35:59,479 --> 01:36:02,640
Speaker 3: recommended and why, understand what protections you might get and

2023
01:36:02,720 --> 01:36:04,280
Speaker 3: what risks there might be, and then you have to

2024
01:36:04,320 --> 01:36:06,840
Speaker 3: decide if you're comfortable that Some people are some people aren't.

2025
01:36:06,840 --> 01:36:09,360
Speaker 3: But those are the recommendations. So I think it's important

2026
01:36:09,400 --> 01:36:13,400
Speaker 3: to know what the benefits might be, and then you

2027
01:36:13,520 --> 01:36:15,400
Speaker 3: have to have discussions with your doctor and decide if

2028
01:36:15,400 --> 01:36:16,519
Speaker 3: you want to do it. You also need to know

2029
01:36:16,560 --> 01:36:18,920
Speaker 3: that it's not forced. Nothing's forced. You don't have to

2030
01:36:18,960 --> 01:36:21,120
Speaker 3: do it. You could do it after you can give

2031
01:36:21,240 --> 01:36:23,160
Speaker 3: vaccines to your baby. You could do no vaccines. There's

2032
01:36:23,200 --> 01:36:25,360
Speaker 3: nothing that is forced. And I don't think people realize

2033
01:36:25,360 --> 01:36:27,680
Speaker 3: that it's not a mandate, they're just recommendations.

2034
01:36:27,800 --> 01:36:32,919
Speaker 2: So take that same question to you, Are you litigating

2035
01:36:32,960 --> 01:36:35,599
Speaker 2: any cases when it's like the baby's still in utero

2036
01:36:35,840 --> 01:36:38,680
Speaker 2: with these vaccines? I mean, because that's actually sort of

2037
01:36:39,680 --> 01:36:42,920
Speaker 2: you know, I mean, maybe the more pertinent question are

2038
01:36:42,960 --> 01:36:46,000
Speaker 2: there risks that you've seen just as a litigators as

2039
01:36:46,040 --> 01:36:48,879
Speaker 2: a lawyer on that front.

2040
01:36:49,320 --> 01:36:52,599
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, Well, there are risks from every vaccine. Again,

2041
01:36:53,120 --> 01:36:56,400
Speaker 4: can't see the manufacturer, can't hold a company accountable. If

2042
01:36:56,439 --> 01:36:58,519
Speaker 4: you're injured by a vaccine and you call our firm,

2043
01:36:59,120 --> 01:37:01,439
Speaker 4: we will. We can file typically only a claim in

2044
01:37:01,439 --> 01:37:04,559
Speaker 4: the vaccine your compensation program where you don't get an

2045
01:37:04,680 --> 01:37:06,599
Speaker 4: Article three judge, you get a special master, you get

2046
01:37:06,680 --> 01:37:10,799
Speaker 4: no discovery of rights, so it can't you get paper discovery.

2047
01:37:11,280 --> 01:37:15,280
Speaker 4: Cannot It shouldn't be. I think it's totally unconstitutional, Actually

2048
01:37:15,439 --> 01:37:21,280
Speaker 4: I do. And you know, painting suffers cap to two fifty.

2049
01:37:21,360 --> 01:37:24,120
Speaker 4: Death is capta two fifty, and you fight against the

2050
01:37:24,160 --> 01:37:27,360
Speaker 4: DJ with endless resources. I mean, so yes, I've there

2051
01:37:27,439 --> 01:37:29,640
Speaker 4: are no vaccines that we don't litigate that cause all

2052
01:37:29,760 --> 01:37:32,400
Speaker 4: kinds of issues. You've heard some of them earlier today,

2053
01:37:32,600 --> 01:37:36,479
Speaker 4: Gambre syndrome, transi smyelitis, which are your body, your own

2054
01:37:36,520 --> 01:37:39,320
Speaker 4: body's own immune system attacking the nerves in your body.

2055
01:37:39,360 --> 01:37:42,040
Speaker 4: You can cause paralysis, cause other issues, a whole host

2056
01:37:42,080 --> 01:37:46,479
Speaker 4: of other things, and then separate from that work on

2057
01:37:46,560 --> 01:37:49,320
Speaker 4: our you know. I'll also point out that there are

2058
01:37:49,680 --> 01:37:52,360
Speaker 4: a series of studies that have looked at kids with

2059
01:37:52,479 --> 01:37:55,160
Speaker 4: no vaccines and kids that are vaccinated they do exist.

2060
01:37:55,520 --> 01:37:55,600
Speaker 7: Now.

2061
01:37:55,680 --> 01:37:58,320
Speaker 4: Most of them are smaller the retrospective. Some of them

2062
01:37:58,320 --> 01:38:02,200
Speaker 4: are a little larger, but they are consistent and a

2063
01:38:02,240 --> 01:38:04,080
Speaker 4: lot there's a bunch of them. I do tell them,

2064
01:38:05,200 --> 01:38:07,160
Speaker 4: and they show that the kids come in and the

2065
01:38:07,280 --> 01:38:11,639
Speaker 4: kids who are vaccinated have had multiple times the rate

2066
01:38:12,920 --> 01:38:16,080
Speaker 4: of all forms of chronic health issues. The ones that

2067
01:38:16,200 --> 01:38:19,040
Speaker 4: have gone up, also the ones that are often disclosed

2068
01:38:19,040 --> 01:38:21,040
Speaker 4: by the manufacturers and the packagings are interesting.

2069
01:38:22,320 --> 01:38:26,719
Speaker 2: So wrapping this kind of conversation up is difficult because

2070
01:38:27,479 --> 01:38:31,519
Speaker 2: I think that I'm probably like a lot of parents

2071
01:38:31,560 --> 01:38:34,400
Speaker 2: out there where you just want somebody to tell you

2072
01:38:34,920 --> 01:38:37,200
Speaker 2: do this, don't do this, don't do this, and do this.

2073
01:38:37,880 --> 01:38:41,240
Speaker 2: And it's just such a complicated conversation because it sounds

2074
01:38:41,280 --> 01:38:43,760
Speaker 2: like we don't have the studies that most people would

2075
01:38:43,760 --> 01:38:47,360
Speaker 2: assume we have. That there are risks in everything, and

2076
01:38:47,479 --> 01:38:49,880
Speaker 2: we have to weigh those one by one, meaning the

2077
01:38:50,000 --> 01:38:52,080
Speaker 2: individual has to do their own work, the parent has

2078
01:38:52,160 --> 01:38:55,560
Speaker 2: to do their own work. Motivated parents are going to

2079
01:38:55,640 --> 01:38:57,600
Speaker 2: do that. There's a lot of parents that are not

2080
01:38:57,960 --> 01:39:00,519
Speaker 2: maybe as educated, maybe they're not as informed, maybe they've

2081
01:39:00,600 --> 01:39:03,200
Speaker 2: even heard this kind of conversation before. It's going to

2082
01:39:03,240 --> 01:39:05,639
Speaker 2: be hard It's just one of those topics where there's

2083
01:39:05,720 --> 01:39:09,080
Speaker 2: just seems to be so much outstanding that we don't

2084
01:39:09,160 --> 01:39:12,519
Speaker 2: know yet, and it seems like RFK is doing that.

2085
01:39:13,960 --> 01:39:16,439
Speaker 2: If you had to give, if you had to grade

2086
01:39:16,960 --> 01:39:22,400
Speaker 2: the AHHS under Bobby Kennedy Junior, are you happy with

2087
01:39:22,640 --> 01:39:25,120
Speaker 2: what you're seeing? What could he do better? And maybe

2088
01:39:25,160 --> 01:39:26,720
Speaker 2: that's a good place where you'd like to see this

2089
01:39:26,800 --> 01:39:29,719
Speaker 2: conversation go in that months coming months ahead.

2090
01:39:30,040 --> 01:39:30,240
Speaker 4: Yeah.

2091
01:39:30,439 --> 01:39:32,880
Speaker 3: I mean, overall, I'm very happy. I think we're moving

2092
01:39:33,080 --> 01:39:36,600
Speaker 3: in an excellent direction in terms of opening up the

2093
01:39:36,720 --> 01:39:39,120
Speaker 3: floor to discussion and looking into some of these things.

2094
01:39:39,280 --> 01:39:42,880
Speaker 3: I hope, I really hope that individuals who have been

2095
01:39:42,960 --> 01:39:45,559
Speaker 3: in the vaccine space for a long time, the mainstream doctors,

2096
01:39:45,600 --> 01:39:48,559
Speaker 3: the pall offits of the world, will be more involved.

2097
01:39:48,600 --> 01:39:50,360
Speaker 3: I think that's really important. I don't think things are

2098
01:39:50,400 --> 01:39:54,400
Speaker 3: going to change in any significant way until everybody comes

2099
01:39:54,439 --> 01:39:57,200
Speaker 3: to the table and sits together and has these discussions

2100
01:39:57,360 --> 01:39:59,760
Speaker 3: and have debates and look at what we do have,

2101
01:40:00,120 --> 01:40:01,720
Speaker 3: what we don't have, and where we can go from

2102
01:40:01,760 --> 01:40:04,680
Speaker 3: here and are actually honest about that. I think we

2103
01:40:04,760 --> 01:40:06,720
Speaker 3: can have those discussions. If we can get everybody at

2104
01:40:06,720 --> 01:40:10,160
Speaker 3: the table, then everyone can realize it's not pro vaccine

2105
01:40:10,160 --> 01:40:13,160
Speaker 3: people versus anti vaccine people, or HHS versus other people.

2106
01:40:13,200 --> 01:40:15,920
Speaker 3: It's everyone against pharma. We're all on the same team.

2107
01:40:15,920 --> 01:40:18,240
Speaker 3: We're all here for our kids. All I want is

2108
01:40:18,280 --> 01:40:20,640
Speaker 3: for kids to be healthy, and I don't care if

2109
01:40:20,680 --> 01:40:22,880
Speaker 3: they get a thousand vaccines or zero vaccines, as long

2110
01:40:22,880 --> 01:40:24,880
Speaker 3: as they're healthier. And the only way we're going to

2111
01:40:24,920 --> 01:40:26,960
Speaker 3: get there is if we can talk about it, be

2112
01:40:27,040 --> 01:40:29,599
Speaker 3: honest about what we know, and then to keep doing

2113
01:40:29,720 --> 01:40:32,200
Speaker 3: the research and the studies and figure out whatever it is.

2114
01:40:32,320 --> 01:40:33,640
Speaker 3: I don't know what the answer is, and that's why

2115
01:40:33,680 --> 01:40:35,680
Speaker 3: when you ask me the question should I do this

2116
01:40:35,800 --> 01:40:37,840
Speaker 3: or that vaccine? I don't know the answer on long

2117
01:40:37,920 --> 01:40:40,760
Speaker 3: term risk, so I can't give you a definitive answer

2118
01:40:40,800 --> 01:40:42,560
Speaker 3: based on statistics. I can only say this is what

2119
01:40:42,640 --> 01:40:45,479
Speaker 3: the CDC recommends, so that's what's recommended. And until we

2120
01:40:45,720 --> 01:40:48,160
Speaker 3: have that data, I don't think that you can honestly

2121
01:40:48,640 --> 01:40:50,840
Speaker 3: give a specific answer. You can have an opinion. You

2122
01:40:50,880 --> 01:40:52,600
Speaker 3: can believe vaccines are the worst thing ever and you

2123
01:40:52,640 --> 01:40:55,080
Speaker 3: should ever do it. You could believe the vaccines are

2124
01:40:55,080 --> 01:40:56,519
Speaker 3: the best thing ever and should get them all, but

2125
01:40:56,680 --> 01:40:59,160
Speaker 3: ultimately we have to follow the data, and I think

2126
01:40:59,200 --> 01:41:00,280
Speaker 3: we're missing that piece well.

2127
01:41:00,320 --> 01:41:02,760
Speaker 2: And I just want to say, because we've had like Krameu,

2128
01:41:02,920 --> 01:41:05,479
Speaker 2: who's a he calls himself a data stition or whatever

2129
01:41:05,640 --> 01:41:08,920
Speaker 2: he's he's set on the show recently that he did

2130
01:41:09,000 --> 01:41:11,920
Speaker 2: not believe that autism rates were actually increasing. It was

2131
01:41:11,960 --> 01:41:13,920
Speaker 2: actually the way we were measuring it or opening the

2132
01:41:13,960 --> 01:41:19,080
Speaker 2: aperture diagnosing more different. But you both believe that empirically

2133
01:41:19,200 --> 01:41:21,759
Speaker 2: the data says autism is increasing.

2134
01:41:22,080 --> 01:41:25,080
Speaker 4: Definitely, that is what the stat that is what the

2135
01:41:25,160 --> 01:41:28,840
Speaker 4: studies show. Better diagnosis accounts for some of it. But

2136
01:41:29,000 --> 01:41:30,559
Speaker 4: there is is a real increase.

2137
01:41:30,600 --> 01:41:33,600
Speaker 3: I don't okay, both things are true, but there's a

2138
01:41:33,680 --> 01:41:36,160
Speaker 3: real increase, and and we've got to.

2139
01:41:36,120 --> 01:41:39,240
Speaker 2: Find out why, which is what Bobby's doing at HHS.

2140
01:41:39,320 --> 01:41:41,840
Speaker 2: He's trying to determine. I mean he said that was

2141
01:41:41,920 --> 01:41:43,240
Speaker 2: he was trying to get to the bottom of why

2142
01:41:43,320 --> 01:41:47,599
Speaker 2: the increase was happening. And yeah, which that question bleeds

2143
01:41:47,600 --> 01:41:49,920
Speaker 2: into the first one I asked, is how is the

2144
01:41:50,080 --> 01:41:51,840
Speaker 2: HHS under r fk Oh.

2145
01:41:51,920 --> 01:41:56,400
Speaker 4: I think I think Secretary Kennedy's is doing. I think

2146
01:41:56,439 --> 01:41:59,920
Speaker 4: he's he's he's he's doing as you know, he's working

2147
01:42:00,080 --> 01:42:03,560
Speaker 4: and fighting every day to improve things. He's dealing with

2148
01:42:03,640 --> 01:42:07,200
Speaker 4: sixty five over sixty five thousand career employees below him.

2149
01:42:08,080 --> 01:42:10,799
Speaker 4: You know, from a decade of litigating with those folks,

2150
01:42:10,920 --> 01:42:12,840
Speaker 4: I'm the close start of the vaccine issue, the more

2151
01:42:12,880 --> 01:42:15,320
Speaker 4: of zealous they are, you know, I know that from

2152
01:42:15,400 --> 01:42:18,560
Speaker 4: millions of internal emails, we've gotten through fouer requests. So

2153
01:42:18,640 --> 01:42:20,400
Speaker 4: he's still got those folks to deal with. And then

2154
01:42:20,439 --> 01:42:22,200
Speaker 4: of course he's still above him. Has the White House

2155
01:42:22,240 --> 01:42:26,120
Speaker 4: who's you know, they're supportive, they're supportive, but there's different

2156
01:42:26,120 --> 01:42:28,559
Speaker 4: personalities in the White House. It's not one person, it's

2157
01:42:28,720 --> 01:42:29,240
Speaker 4: a lot of people.

2158
01:42:29,240 --> 01:42:30,759
Speaker 2: People fail to understand that sometimes.

2159
01:42:30,960 --> 01:42:35,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, So so he's you know, he's and he doesn't

2160
01:42:35,320 --> 01:42:37,080
Speaker 4: get to pick all the people at HHS, even the

2161
01:42:37,120 --> 01:42:39,800
Speaker 4: political appointees as you know, right, they got to go

2162
01:42:39,840 --> 01:42:42,320
Speaker 4: through PPO and you know, the White House picks.

2163
01:42:42,320 --> 01:42:45,559
Speaker 2: I mean, there's not like different comperations for each appointment.

2164
01:42:45,680 --> 01:42:48,559
Speaker 2: There's different favors you might have to you know exactly,

2165
01:42:48,640 --> 01:42:52,040
Speaker 2: I exactly supplicated business, so within within you.

2166
01:42:52,080 --> 01:42:55,479
Speaker 4: Know, so he is fighting too. I mean, nobody, nobody

2167
01:42:56,320 --> 01:42:59,439
Speaker 4: that I know, has given up more than Secretary Kennedy

2168
01:43:00,120 --> 01:43:03,280
Speaker 4: to fight on this issue or fright on frankly, any issue.

2169
01:43:03,600 --> 01:43:05,719
Speaker 4: I mean, listen, he was a Kennedy, he was the darling.

2170
01:43:05,800 --> 01:43:07,800
Speaker 4: He was on the front page of magazines. He had

2171
01:43:07,800 --> 01:43:10,880
Speaker 4: a million positions, all paying him for basically sitting around

2172
01:43:11,000 --> 01:43:14,040
Speaker 4: and just using his name. And when he saw kids

2173
01:43:14,080 --> 01:43:17,040
Speaker 4: injured from these products, he just didn't let it go,

2174
01:43:17,520 --> 01:43:19,519
Speaker 4: no matter how much they beat him. To this day,

2175
01:43:19,560 --> 01:43:21,439
Speaker 4: he won't let it go because he has seen what

2176
01:43:21,520 --> 01:43:24,840
Speaker 4: I've seen. You know, he knows the injuries that it

2177
01:43:24,960 --> 01:43:28,639
Speaker 4: can cause. I will also just add one more point,

2178
01:43:28,680 --> 01:43:32,200
Speaker 4: which is that I know it's you're like, oh, parents

2179
01:43:32,240 --> 01:43:35,439
Speaker 4: have to go and do their own research. Unfortunately, with

2180
01:43:35,520 --> 01:43:38,679
Speaker 4: vaccines they do because unlike every other product, the market

2181
01:43:38,800 --> 01:43:43,120
Speaker 4: self corrects. The market would take care of eliminating products

2182
01:43:43,160 --> 01:43:47,240
Speaker 4: that aren't safe, that would force companies would naturally want

2183
01:43:47,240 --> 01:43:50,759
Speaker 4: to replace them, but they don't self correct with this product.

2184
01:43:50,840 --> 01:43:54,719
Speaker 4: It is truly unique. I agree with you, we're very busy.

2185
01:43:55,080 --> 01:43:59,560
Speaker 4: Everybody's busy with these products, though unfortunately you don't have

2186
01:43:59,720 --> 01:44:02,160
Speaker 4: the industries not can't be held accountable in the same

2187
01:44:02,160 --> 01:44:04,720
Speaker 4: way in any way almost and the government for the

2188
01:44:04,840 --> 01:44:08,439
Speaker 4: most part, and Bobby's trying to work on this is

2189
01:44:08,800 --> 01:44:12,439
Speaker 4: is not really there to fighting the consumer, defending the consumer.

2190
01:44:12,520 --> 01:44:15,080
Speaker 4: They're fighting the consumers. So it's a unique space.

2191
01:44:15,160 --> 01:44:18,320
Speaker 2: I think it's a fascinating conversation. Again, I just want

2192
01:44:18,360 --> 01:44:21,200
Speaker 2: to make sure we get all of our plugs here, right,

2193
01:44:21,280 --> 01:44:25,000
Speaker 2: So doctor Joel Gator Walsh, you go by Gator because

2194
01:44:25,000 --> 01:44:26,840
Speaker 2: that's your social media. Where'd that name come from?

2195
01:44:27,040 --> 01:44:30,280
Speaker 3: My wife's last name is in Delligator, So okay, Gator.

2196
01:44:30,400 --> 01:44:33,920
Speaker 2: Get doctor Gator Walsh, m D. Author of Between a

2197
01:44:34,000 --> 01:44:36,360
Speaker 2: Shot in a Hard Place. You can throw the artwork

2198
01:44:36,439 --> 01:44:39,200
Speaker 2: up and you can find them on x and ig

2199
01:44:39,400 --> 01:44:42,559
Speaker 2: at doctor Joel Gator. And then Aaron Siri, civil rights attorney,

2200
01:44:43,000 --> 01:44:48,639
Speaker 2: managing partner of Siri in Glimstad Right LLP Siri LP

2201
01:44:48,760 --> 01:44:54,120
Speaker 2: dot com and he's the author of Vaccines Amen. Really

2202
01:44:54,520 --> 01:44:57,960
Speaker 2: fascinating conversation, and we could go on and on, but

2203
01:44:58,080 --> 01:45:00,280
Speaker 2: I think we've covered a lot of ground here, and

2204
01:45:00,360 --> 01:45:01,880
Speaker 2: so I wis want to thank you both for making

2205
01:45:01,920 --> 01:45:05,599
Speaker 2: the time and just coming to this conversation with good faith,

2206
01:45:06,200 --> 01:45:09,280
Speaker 2: and hopefully we can expand the circle and have some

2207
01:45:09,400 --> 01:45:11,880
Speaker 2: of these conversations that we want to have as well,

2208
01:45:11,960 --> 01:45:14,080
Speaker 2: and you guys could come back for that. So we'll

2209
01:45:14,120 --> 01:45:16,920
Speaker 2: do our best to bring some of those voices into

2210
01:45:16,960 --> 01:45:17,719
Speaker 2: the next conversation.

2211
01:45:17,760 --> 01:45:20,160
Speaker 4: It'd be great if you can bring some vaccinologist of.

2212
01:45:20,720 --> 01:45:22,760
Speaker 2: Yeah with you in the room. Maybe not. I don't

2213
01:45:22,800 --> 01:45:25,439
Speaker 2: know how likely we're going to be to get them on.

2214
01:45:25,560 --> 01:45:27,920
Speaker 2: But thank you guys so much. Thank you great, great

2215
01:45:28,000 --> 01:45:31,519
Speaker 2: job Riley as well. Until next time, we'll see you soon.

2216
01:45:37,560 --> 01:45:39,600
Speaker 2: For more on many of these stories and news you

2217
01:45:39,680 --> 01:45:41,479
Speaker 2: can trust, go to Charliekirk dot com.