WEBVTT - America First Empire? 0:00:05.400 --> 0:00:07.640 I'm Josh Hamer, and this is the Josh Hammer Show. 0:00:08.280 --> 0:00:11.280 Nicholas Maduro, the deposed kind of sort of maybe but 0:00:11.400 --> 0:00:14.760 not really, dictator of Venezuela, appearing in New York Federal 0:00:14.800 --> 0:00:18.439 Court on Monday alongside his wife, where he proceeds to 0:00:18.480 --> 0:00:21.840 plead not guilty to the charges for which he was 0:00:21.840 --> 0:00:25.640 indicted initially by a court in Florida, with a superseding 0:00:25.640 --> 0:00:28.080 indictment there in New York City back in the final 0:00:28.240 --> 0:00:32.200 year of the first Trump term, back in twenty twenty. Normally, 0:00:32.520 --> 0:00:34.600 a situation like this where you have a fugitive of 0:00:34.760 --> 0:00:38.400 justice does not necessarily have all the overtones of an 0:00:38.400 --> 0:00:41.560 international foreign policy issue. But because of the nature of 0:00:41.600 --> 0:00:44.199 this particular incident, because of the nature of how this 0:00:44.240 --> 0:00:47.199 went down this past weekend in Caracas, Venezuela, because of 0:00:47.240 --> 0:00:50.000 the involvements of the US Army Delta Force, because of 0:00:50.040 --> 0:00:52.720 the nature of the Maduro regime as a staunch ally 0:00:52.760 --> 0:00:55.440 of all the world's worst actors, from communist China to 0:00:55.480 --> 0:00:58.120 Russia to Iran to Cuba and North Korea to Hesbala 0:00:58.200 --> 0:01:01.600 and everyone in between. Because of all that, this is 0:01:02.000 --> 0:01:05.559 not simply a legal matter, but very much a foreign 0:01:05.560 --> 0:01:09.319 policy matter as well. First, just a further coda on 0:01:09.440 --> 0:01:11.280 the law. On the Essays show, we spent a lot 0:01:11.280 --> 0:01:15.280 of time talking about the specter in some cases, perhaps 0:01:15.360 --> 0:01:18.920 many cases, the misnomer of so called international law, which 0:01:18.959 --> 0:01:22.399 is often invoked as a sword, but is rarely understood 0:01:22.440 --> 0:01:25.800 by those who have a tendency to invoke it. Specifically, 0:01:25.920 --> 0:01:28.760 we expect at this trial, which is probably going to 0:01:28.800 --> 0:01:32.200 take years, if I had to guess, especially including the 0:01:32.800 --> 0:01:36.200 appeals that will inevitably come, Maduro's lawyers are going to 0:01:36.240 --> 0:01:39.440 invoke all sorts of so called international law defenses. They're 0:01:39.480 --> 0:01:43.160 going to appeal to his purported alleged status as the 0:01:43.200 --> 0:01:45.200 head of state, for which they are going to claim 0:01:45.640 --> 0:01:48.920 that he is entitled to absolute immunity to being prosecuted 0:01:49.000 --> 0:01:53.840 in foreign courts of law. The problem is multifault. On 0:01:53.880 --> 0:01:57.480 the one hand, this has been tried before. We mentioned 0:01:57.560 --> 0:02:00.800 yesterday that there have been multiple cinenses, Ronald Reagan going 0:02:00.880 --> 0:02:03.440 into the country of Grenada in the early nineteen eighties, 0:02:03.480 --> 0:02:07.680 along with perhaps even more Saliencly to the point George H. W. 0:02:07.840 --> 0:02:10.959 Bush going into Patama thirty six years to the day 0:02:11.040 --> 0:02:15.040 prior to the Caracas raid this past Saturday, and Back 0:02:15.080 --> 0:02:18.680 in nineteen ninety, the George HW. Bush administration got the 0:02:18.919 --> 0:02:25.959 disputed illegitimate drug trafficking drug overlord, Dictator Patama Manuel Noriega, 0:02:26.040 --> 0:02:30.040 on very similar charges. Noriega's lawyers back then offered many 0:02:30.040 --> 0:02:33.200 defenses that Maduro's lawyers are going to offer now. Those 0:02:33.200 --> 0:02:35.639 defenses failed in nineteen ninety, and those defenses are going 0:02:35.639 --> 0:02:39.560 to fail today because Nicholas Maduro is not a legitimately 0:02:39.600 --> 0:02:42.160 elected head of state. This has been the policy of 0:02:42.360 --> 0:02:46.320 three successive presidential administrations, going back to Donald Trump's first term, 0:02:46.320 --> 0:02:49.440 going into the Biden administration, which had a fifty million 0:02:49.480 --> 0:02:53.399 dollars bounty on Maduro's head, much to the apparent surprise 0:02:53.639 --> 0:02:57.480 of the dim witted former VP Kamala Harris, who over 0:02:57.520 --> 0:02:59.960 the weekend was excoriating Donald Trump and no en certain turn. 0:03:00.600 --> 0:03:03.440 And then that policy of not recognized Nicholas Madua as 0:03:03.440 --> 0:03:06.079 the head of state has continued into this MAGA two 0:03:06.120 --> 0:03:08.760 point zero second Trump administration as well. By the way, 0:03:08.760 --> 0:03:11.119 that sentiment is not simply a sentiment of the United 0:03:11.160 --> 0:03:14.800 States of America. That legal assessment is shared by such 0:03:14.919 --> 0:03:18.560 liberal bastions as Canada and by the European Union itself. 0:03:19.080 --> 0:03:22.320 So Maduro is best understood as a fugitive justice who 0:03:22.360 --> 0:03:24.959 just happens to live in a foreign country. Now we 0:03:25.000 --> 0:03:26.959 can always got agains details as whether or not he's 0:03:27.000 --> 0:03:30.280 actually going to be convicted by a jury in New 0:03:30.360 --> 0:03:33.160 York City. This is the same location, New York City 0:03:32.960 --> 0:03:37.200 that found Donald Trump to be guilty on those outrageous, 0:03:37.280 --> 0:03:42.640 ludicrous Stormy Daniels corporate bookkeeping nonsense Alvin Bragg Stalinist prosecution 0:03:42.840 --> 0:03:46.240 hoax back in two thousand and twenty four. So we 0:03:46.280 --> 0:03:49.560 can kind of get into the juror debate and the 0:03:49.600 --> 0:03:52.560 betty markets Polymarket and the other online betting markets. We're 0:03:52.560 --> 0:03:55.280 having a lot of fun with that. Yesterday talking about 0:03:55.320 --> 0:03:57.840 whether or not he's actually going to be convicted ron 0:03:57.840 --> 0:03:59.720 the Santas of Florida and the governor having a little 0:03:59.720 --> 0:04:03.760 fun with that. He quote tweeted the Polymarket guessing game 0:04:03.800 --> 0:04:05.400 and basically said, you know what, I bet this guy 0:04:05.440 --> 0:04:07.680 would probably convicted if he were in Florida and as 0:04:07.720 --> 0:04:11.080 at Florida, and I think that our governor is absolutely right. Frankly, 0:04:11.120 --> 0:04:13.920 I would love to see Madureau try by a jury 0:04:13.920 --> 0:04:16.760 of his peers in Dural, Florida, which is one of 0:04:16.800 --> 0:04:19.680 the homes of the Venezuela and expats community, those who 0:04:19.680 --> 0:04:23.840 have fled communism there in Venezuela, very much located here 0:04:23.920 --> 0:04:26.960 in South Florida. So I do not expect Maduro's legal 0:04:26.960 --> 0:04:30.160 defenses to go well. Much that has been tried and 0:04:30.200 --> 0:04:32.560 rejected before. Having said that, when you get to a 0:04:32.640 --> 0:04:35.880 jury trial, sometimes you just don't know. And this kind 0:04:35.880 --> 0:04:38.080 of gets into the overarching debate when it comes to 0:04:38.160 --> 0:04:40.920 the jurors system, whether it has outlied its usefulness. We're 0:04:40.920 --> 0:04:43.320 going to table that discussion for now. Perhaps we will 0:04:43.360 --> 0:04:47.960 revisit it at an opportune time sometime down the road. Now, there's, 0:04:48.040 --> 0:04:51.520 as as mentioned, there are all sorts of foreign policy 0:04:51.640 --> 0:04:56.280 and domestic political overtones to the Maduro capture, And yes 0:04:56.320 --> 0:04:58.920 it is a capture. First of all. When it comes 0:04:59.000 --> 0:05:01.200 to the left, what exactly is are to say? That 0:05:01.240 --> 0:05:02.920 has not been settled ready, but we're going to say 0:05:02.920 --> 0:05:09.480 it anyway. There how many freaking absurd dictators, tyrannical jack 0:05:09.520 --> 0:05:14.599 booted thugs overseas. Will these people just leap leap to defense? 0:05:14.760 --> 0:05:16.880 And when I say leap in some cases, I mean 0:05:17.040 --> 0:05:20.440 literally leap Over the weekend on Saturday. What it took 0:05:20.480 --> 0:05:24.000 a few hours, a few hours for these these leftists, 0:05:24.000 --> 0:05:26.840 many of whom are these professional paid protesters, paid by 0:05:26.880 --> 0:05:29.800 the Soros Foundation and the Ties Foundation, all these various 0:05:30.040 --> 0:05:32.839 left wing NGOs undoubtedly paid the same thing that that 0:05:32.880 --> 0:05:35.839 the pro Hamas Jihadis on Canvas are paid. In the 0:05:35.839 --> 0:05:38.240 aftermath of the horrific October seven, twenty twenty three pro 0:05:38.279 --> 0:05:42.680 gone on Saturday, they what these folks. They leap out 0:05:42.680 --> 0:05:44.320 of bed in the morning as if they have nothing 0:05:44.360 --> 0:05:47.200 better to do on honest Saturday, and they're in the 0:05:47.240 --> 0:05:50.680 streets seemingly within minutes, within hours, the most of the 0:05:50.760 --> 0:05:54.680 news actually breaking the American airwaves that Maduro has indeed 0:05:54.720 --> 0:05:57.760 been captured by US Delta Force. As it turns out, 0:05:57.760 --> 0:06:00.120 we now know that a lot of this active of 0:06:00.200 --> 0:06:02.880 the was organized and funded buy a group known as 0:06:03.000 --> 0:06:07.159 the People's Forum, which has very very close ties to yes, 0:06:07.279 --> 0:06:09.400 you guessed have the Chinese Communist Party. In fact, that 0:06:09.480 --> 0:06:13.039 People's Forum, which is behind we know this for a 0:06:13.040 --> 0:06:15.120 fat The New York Post, among others are Portium. They 0:06:15.120 --> 0:06:17.240 are behind a lot, probably not at all, but a 0:06:17.279 --> 0:06:19.359 lot of the coordinate activity when it comes to the 0:06:19.360 --> 0:06:21.960 pro Maduro raties this past week, and there the People's Forum, 0:06:22.040 --> 0:06:25.240 taking in at least one instance, twenty million dollars in 0:06:25.320 --> 0:06:29.520 donation from a very very closely tied Chinese Communist Party 0:06:29.880 --> 0:06:32.520 activist by the name of Nebell Singham. Not a very 0:06:32.600 --> 0:06:36.080 Chinese signing name, but I guess he is a Chinese propagandist, 0:06:36.120 --> 0:06:39.599 and he actually lives in Shanghai, so virtually none of 0:06:39.600 --> 0:06:43.159 this is organic. But you know, it's kind of funny. 0:06:43.200 --> 0:06:46.920 Today is the five year anniversary of January six, twenty 0:06:47.000 --> 0:06:48.920 twenty one, a day that will live in infamy, right, 0:06:49.400 --> 0:06:52.520 And I didn't really necessarily want to talk about January 0:06:52.520 --> 0:06:54.960 sixth on say show, because frankly, I kind of forgot 0:06:55.000 --> 0:06:57.520 that it was January six, because five years later it's 0:06:57.960 --> 0:07:01.000 it's literally that much of a forgot nothing burger to me. 0:07:01.440 --> 0:07:05.200 But we should at least say the following, which is 0:07:05.640 --> 0:07:07.799 the folks who are out there, and from a quick 0:07:07.880 --> 0:07:10.600 scan of social media and so forth, they are clearly 0:07:10.680 --> 0:07:13.120 out there. The folks who are still lamenting into crying, 0:07:13.160 --> 0:07:15.920 who are still lambasting Donald Trump as being an opponent 0:07:16.280 --> 0:07:20.000 of American democracy, for being complicit in the day that 0:07:20.080 --> 0:07:24.320 democracy almost died in twenty twenty one, five years ago. 0:07:24.560 --> 0:07:27.360 To the day. Many of these folks are the same 0:07:27.440 --> 0:07:31.800 folks who are out there industrys protesting in vociferous, clamorous 0:07:31.800 --> 0:07:36.200 fashion this past weekend on behalf on behalf of the 0:07:36.280 --> 0:07:40.640 Maduro regime. Try to square that circle for me. I'm sorry, 0:07:40.720 --> 0:07:43.560 Donald Trump is a threat to democracy for doing what, 0:07:44.000 --> 0:07:46.760 literally for doing what for cleaning up your streets via 0:07:46.760 --> 0:07:49.800 the National Guard. He's a threat to democracy by trying 0:07:49.840 --> 0:07:54.520 to make sure that the unelected, undemocratic administrative states does 0:07:54.560 --> 0:07:57.760 not wield disapportionate power. So he wants to say that 0:07:57.800 --> 0:08:00.960 Donald Trump is a threat to democracy. But e Colis Maduro, 0:08:01.880 --> 0:08:05.520 the guy who banned opposition newspapers, guy who murdered countless 0:08:05.520 --> 0:08:08.080 of his own citizens, the guy who was literally running 0:08:08.240 --> 0:08:12.680 a transnational drug trafficking ring called the Cartel Dilla, souls 0:08:13.640 --> 0:08:16.320 that that guy is not a threat to democracy. What 0:08:16.760 --> 0:08:20.880 is wrong with you? Like, actually, what is wrong with you? 0:08:21.800 --> 0:08:25.360 I mean numerous elected officials from the democratic class, not 0:08:25.400 --> 0:08:28.480 just the lefting activists, many elect officials completely and utterly 0:08:28.720 --> 0:08:33.760 declining themselves on this question. Maggie Goodlander is a congresswoman 0:08:33.840 --> 0:08:35.640 from the granted state of the state of New Hampshire. 0:08:35.640 --> 0:08:37.160 You man have heard of her. You might have not 0:08:37.280 --> 0:08:40.240 heard of her. She refused to answer a question as 0:08:40.240 --> 0:08:42.800 to whether arresting Maderda was a good thing. Here is 0:08:43.080 --> 0:08:45.000 representative Goodlander on CNN. 0:08:45.400 --> 0:08:46.880 Do you think it's a good thing that Mduro is 0:08:46.880 --> 0:08:47.640 no longer in power? 0:08:49.040 --> 0:08:54.240 Maduall was a dictator, He is a thug, and he 0:08:54.679 --> 0:08:59.200 was a grave disservice to the Venezuelan people. But look 0:08:59.360 --> 0:09:02.559 here in New Ham sure we're celebrating today the two 0:09:02.600 --> 0:09:06.760 hundred and fiftieth anniversary of our constitution. I believe what 0:09:07.080 --> 0:09:09.200 my stage is showed in the world is that a 0:09:09.280 --> 0:09:12.160 government of buy and for the people themselves is what 0:09:12.200 --> 0:09:13.439 we should be aiming towards. 0:09:13.920 --> 0:09:16.160 Okay, so you're not answer the question, basically, you're not 0:09:16.200 --> 0:09:19.959 saying that arresting this narco terrorist who has caused immense 0:09:20.040 --> 0:09:22.120 suffering not just to his own people and very much 0:09:22.120 --> 0:09:24.760 to the American people through his international drug trafficking, just 0:09:24.960 --> 0:09:27.640 categorically refused to answer this question. By the way, she 0:09:27.800 --> 0:09:31.120 is exactly the kind of person, this backbencher congress woman 0:09:31.120 --> 0:09:33.120 who most people probably never get her. She's exactly the 0:09:33.160 --> 0:09:35.280 kind of person who I guarantee you in her various 0:09:35.280 --> 0:09:37.439 press releases and her social media feed her this or 0:09:37.520 --> 0:09:42.600 that is engaging in hysterical, hysterical melo drama and histrionics. 0:09:42.720 --> 0:09:44.480 When it comes to the five year anniversary over the 0:09:44.559 --> 0:09:48.280 day that democracy almost die January sixth, twenty twenty one. 0:09:48.760 --> 0:09:51.320 Some other Democrats, by the way, are playing the war 0:09:51.400 --> 0:09:54.000 powers game. They're saying, oh, man, Congress is not consulted 0:09:54.000 --> 0:09:56.080 when it comes to the Maduro ray. For instance, here 0:09:56.120 --> 0:09:59.360 was Congressman Glenn Ivy of Maryland, who is big time 0:09:59.400 --> 0:10:01.600 mad big time I med that Congress wasn't briefed here 0:10:01.640 --> 0:10:05.200 as Congressman Glenn Ivy on WSA nine in Washington, DC. 0:10:05.559 --> 0:10:07.520 Can you tell us a bit more before we go? 0:10:07.600 --> 0:10:09.840 And I know we're all still learning about all of 0:10:09.840 --> 0:10:12.040 this at the same time, but there are there any 0:10:12.080 --> 0:10:16.360 other specific diplomatic or economic steps that you think Congress 0:10:16.440 --> 0:10:20.400 can do to push for some stability in Venezuela at 0:10:20.400 --> 0:10:20.880 this point? 0:10:22.000 --> 0:10:24.080 Well, you know, first step I think is to get 0:10:24.120 --> 0:10:25.480 the full briefing on where. 0:10:25.280 --> 0:10:26.480 Things actually stand. 0:10:26.960 --> 0:10:29.680 And that's why the briefing should have taken place before 0:10:29.679 --> 0:10:32.720 they made the move into Venezuela instead of afterwards, because 0:10:33.040 --> 0:10:34.959 now we're trying to play catch up with that and 0:10:35.440 --> 0:10:37.960 trying to make these guys of diplomatic decisions of you, 0:10:38.160 --> 0:10:41.440 as you've raised, but not having full information. 0:10:41.000 --> 0:10:43.680 Yet, so as we spent on yesterday's show, this is 0:10:43.920 --> 0:10:46.920 better understood and not as a military operation, but as 0:10:46.920 --> 0:10:49.800 a law enforcement operation. There are clear foreign policy overtones. 0:10:49.960 --> 0:10:52.040 We discussed it briefly yesterday and we'll get to it 0:10:52.040 --> 0:10:55.280 at greater length and greater depth momentarily, but it's primarily 0:10:55.320 --> 0:10:58.079 a law enforcement operation for the very simple reason that 0:10:58.160 --> 0:11:00.800 Maduro is one not the legit mids head of state 0:11:00.840 --> 0:11:05.400 of Venezuela. In twenty nineteen, you had Juan Waido, who 0:11:05.520 --> 0:11:08.400 according to many won the election in twenty eighteen, then 0:11:08.559 --> 0:11:11.400 the protests nearly twenty nineteen. At minimum, in twenty twenty 0:11:11.400 --> 0:11:13.760 four you had and Mundo Gonzalez, who won the election 0:11:13.880 --> 0:11:17.560 most international observers, including the Eurocrats and Brussels recognized. So 0:11:17.679 --> 0:11:20.280 he's not the legitimate head of states, and this was 0:11:20.559 --> 0:11:23.559 trying to extract someone to face justice on an indictment. 0:11:23.720 --> 0:11:25.520 If Madua had been in the United States, there would 0:11:25.520 --> 0:11:28.120 have been no reason for the US military to be involved. 0:11:28.160 --> 0:11:31.160 You would have had the US marshals or the FBI 0:11:31.520 --> 0:11:33.400 or SWAT teams go ahead and do it there. So 0:11:33.520 --> 0:11:35.560 this is not a war powers question. There is no 0:11:35.640 --> 0:11:38.319 declare war operation going on. There are plenty of big 0:11:38.360 --> 0:11:41.640 questions as to what happens to Venezuela, and among those 0:11:41.720 --> 0:11:43.680 questions are what we're going to be dealing with on 0:11:43.720 --> 0:11:45.080 the rest of our show. I'm probably dealing with that, 0:11:45.120 --> 0:11:46.800 frankly for months and months and months now. But this 0:11:46.880 --> 0:11:48.839 notion of war powers is totally ludicrous there, and this 0:11:48.880 --> 0:11:50.480 congressman has no idea what we saw him about it. 0:11:50.520 --> 0:11:55.960 I'm Joshamer will be right back, welcome back to the show. 0:11:56.520 --> 0:12:00.480 So the foreign policy raifications are indeed dress. This was 0:12:00.520 --> 0:12:06.400 primarily a law enforcement operation. There naturally are major foreign 0:12:06.440 --> 0:12:08.839 policy overtones too much of what is going on there. 0:12:09.320 --> 0:12:12.920 The former Maduro vice president, who was sworn in pretty 0:12:12.960 --> 0:12:17.240 much immediately after the extraction Maduro as the nation's acting president, 0:12:17.880 --> 0:12:20.760 is a one by the name of Delci Rodriguez. Delcea 0:12:20.800 --> 0:12:25.079 Rodriguez is a lunatic. She's an absolute lunatic by all accounts. 0:12:25.160 --> 0:12:27.520 She gets someone who is just as far left it, frankly, 0:12:27.559 --> 0:12:30.920 not even further to the left then Nicholas Maduro himself. 0:12:31.520 --> 0:12:34.360 Among other things that Dela Rodriguez did in the immediate 0:12:34.400 --> 0:12:38.120 aftermath of being sworn in by the Venezuelan and Supreme 0:12:38.160 --> 0:12:41.040 Court as the current acting President. Among the things that 0:12:41.080 --> 0:12:45.040 Delsea Rodriguez did was she proceeded to blame the Maduro 0:12:45.080 --> 0:12:48.720 extraction on Oh, yeah, you guessed it, the Jews. No doubt, 0:12:48.760 --> 0:12:51.240 she's been watching many episodes of the Tucker Carlson Show. 0:12:51.559 --> 0:12:54.760 So Rodriguez there talking about how this is a foreign 0:12:54.880 --> 0:12:59.080 orchestrated plot generally has just been sounding like a crazy person. 0:12:59.480 --> 0:13:02.960 After she was scorn in, she immediately went to the diplomats, 0:13:02.960 --> 0:13:07.120 the emissaries of hostile American of regimes hostiles to American 0:13:07.120 --> 0:13:10.480 interests such as Russia in China, the very same notional 0:13:10.600 --> 0:13:13.839 nominal Venezuela and quote unquote allies that did absolutely nothing 0:13:13.840 --> 0:13:15.920 to prevent this extraction in the first place. There So 0:13:16.040 --> 0:13:20.439 Rodriguez walks over to the representative of the Chinese Communist government, 0:13:20.440 --> 0:13:23.360 to the representative of the Russian Federation, proceeds to thank 0:13:23.440 --> 0:13:25.439 them and glad hand them and smile at ear to air. 0:13:25.720 --> 0:13:27.560 So it seems, on the one hand that it is 0:13:27.640 --> 0:13:31.120 very much more of the same, which again raises this 0:13:31.200 --> 0:13:34.280 question as to what exactly is the trum administration doing 0:13:34.280 --> 0:13:36.400 here when it comes to trying to make this work 0:13:36.640 --> 0:13:39.120 with Delsa Rodriguez if we were actually going to quote 0:13:39.160 --> 0:13:42.000 unquote run Venezuela, which is a very open question, and 0:13:42.040 --> 0:13:45.440 it's what Donald Trump has been saying that's been being 0:13:45.520 --> 0:13:47.520 encountered a little bit by Marco Rubio, who seems to 0:13:47.559 --> 0:13:50.880 be downplaying the notion of America quote unquote running Venezuela. 0:13:51.040 --> 0:13:53.000 But if we're actually going to do this, then why 0:13:53.040 --> 0:13:55.400 in the world are we doing this with someone who 0:13:55.440 --> 0:13:59.360 is just as crazy a pink o kami as Maduro himself. 0:13:59.520 --> 0:14:01.080 Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to do it 0:14:01.120 --> 0:14:06.319 with basically the diet coke vanilla version of Maduro Delsa Rodriguez. 0:14:06.400 --> 0:14:07.240 Well. 0:14:07.720 --> 0:14:10.960 An interesting conversation that was posted at the Free Press 0:14:10.960 --> 0:14:13.880 publication earlier today. David Petraeus, you might I remember him 0:14:13.920 --> 0:14:17.640 as being the head of the Iraq War era Counterincertgaincy, 0:14:17.800 --> 0:14:22.120 someone whose thoughts are generally highly esteemed considered when it 0:14:22.120 --> 0:14:25.480 comes to military matters and yes, matters of so called 0:14:25.600 --> 0:14:28.920 regime change. Dan Patreya is actually sounding a note of 0:14:28.960 --> 0:14:32.760 concurrence with the administration and basically saying that this is 0:14:33.000 --> 0:14:37.760 the least likely path to go awry, And there's some 0:14:38.000 --> 0:14:40.520 truth in that. If you're going to go in and 0:14:40.560 --> 0:14:43.200 you're going to extract someone who maybe he's not the 0:14:43.280 --> 0:14:46.440 legitimate head of state, but he at least had the entrapments, 0:14:46.640 --> 0:14:52.800 He at least had the accouterments, the quasi public impromatore 0:14:53.040 --> 0:14:56.000 of presidential status quasi because there are many folks who 0:14:56.000 --> 0:14:58.880 disputed that correctly and rightfully disputed that, but he still 0:14:58.920 --> 0:15:00.840 was viewed by many as the president. If you're going 0:15:00.880 --> 0:15:03.560 to do that, does it make sense to then just 0:15:03.600 --> 0:15:07.480 go guns fully blazing, proverbally or literally speaking, and just 0:15:07.560 --> 0:15:10.920 try to go in and install a pro American puppet. Well, 0:15:10.920 --> 0:15:13.600 that hasn't necessarily always worked out for the best case 0:15:13.600 --> 0:15:16.240 scenario for the United States when it comes to a 0:15:16.280 --> 0:15:19.960 lot of failed Latin American interventions in decades past. The 0:15:20.000 --> 0:15:23.200 point that betrays making in this interview, and it resonates 0:15:23.200 --> 0:15:25.160 a little bit with me, is that you should try 0:15:25.200 --> 0:15:29.040 to do the incrementalist thing. Right Now, Maduro was a fugitive, 0:15:29.320 --> 0:15:31.160 You had a fifty million dollars bound his head. We 0:15:31.240 --> 0:15:33.400 got them. Now, let's see if there's a way that 0:15:33.440 --> 0:15:36.520 the United States can use its overwhelming diplomatic and economic 0:15:36.640 --> 0:15:39.880 leverage to try to make do with the logical successor 0:15:39.960 --> 0:15:43.560 if Rodriguez ends up not being interested in playing ball. Okay, 0:15:43.640 --> 0:15:47.560 maybe that is another conversation. This does, though, raise the 0:15:48.040 --> 0:15:51.240 broader conversation, which is what the heck is going on 0:15:51.440 --> 0:15:54.680 when it comes to American foreign policy at this moment? 0:15:55.600 --> 0:15:58.520 Is America actually emerging now as something of a twenty 0:15:58.560 --> 0:16:01.720 first empire? And that's quite a paradox, isn't it. It's 0:16:01.800 --> 0:16:05.360 quite ironic, and I think some would suggest that Donald Trump, 0:16:05.360 --> 0:16:09.400 who campaigns at least to some extent, as being a 0:16:09.520 --> 0:16:12.160 much more humble, modest figure on the world stage. I 0:16:12.160 --> 0:16:14.680 think back to the twenty sixteen Republican president as a premier, 0:16:14.720 --> 0:16:18.120 with Donald Trump excoriated Jeb Bush to his face for 0:16:18.200 --> 0:16:22.480 his brother George W. Bush's adventurism, his adventurism abroad in 0:16:22.560 --> 0:16:26.480 Iraqi and Afghanistan. It is definitely something of an irony 0:16:26.520 --> 0:16:30.680 that Donald Trump is now here talking and in many 0:16:30.720 --> 0:16:33.600 ways not just talking, but acting as something of a 0:16:33.640 --> 0:16:38.480 foreign interventionist himself. And the question that is being bad 0:16:38.520 --> 0:16:41.600 around I think a lot of folks all across politist 0:16:41.600 --> 0:16:45.880 past Marto asking there is what exactly is this administration 0:16:46.040 --> 0:16:49.280 doing when it comes to foreign policy. Let me throw 0:16:49.320 --> 0:16:52.640 in two additional wrinkles into the conversation. Then we will 0:16:52.680 --> 0:16:56.840 revisit this broader topic momentarily. Those two additional wrinkles are 0:16:56.960 --> 0:17:00.000 Iron and Greenland. Let's go ahead and take those situations 0:17:00.400 --> 0:17:04.119 one by one. Iran has now been facing a week 0:17:04.119 --> 0:17:06.720 and a half of protests. They started a few days 0:17:06.760 --> 0:17:10.080 after Christmas, and at this point there are Iranian protesters 0:17:10.080 --> 0:17:12.040 who are out on the streets and they are now 0:17:12.160 --> 0:17:14.840 all throughout the country of Iran. They are now in 0:17:14.880 --> 0:17:17.879 all of the twenty plus provinces of Iran. Based on 0:17:17.880 --> 0:17:20.000 what we are seeing across social media, it seems that 0:17:20.000 --> 0:17:22.680 there are protesters who have now taken actually they've actually 0:17:22.840 --> 0:17:27.000 taken over parts of Islamic Revolutionary Guard core military basis. 0:17:27.000 --> 0:17:31.520 They've taken over parts of Tehran City, municipal infrastructure, parts 0:17:31.520 --> 0:17:35.320 of markets. There. There have now been at least a 0:17:35.400 --> 0:17:37.840 dozen and a half two dozen protesters who've been visually 0:17:37.920 --> 0:17:41.679 killed by this most tyrannical of Islamus theocratic regimes. And 0:17:41.920 --> 0:17:45.120 there's been fascinating reporting coming from the Times of London, 0:17:45.160 --> 0:17:50.320 a pretty prestigious, well known British newspaper that the Ayatola 0:17:50.359 --> 0:17:53.720 himself Kaimeni, who is the quote unquote supreme leader. He's 0:17:53.800 --> 0:17:57.200 the real leader of this horrific Islamist theocracy. According to 0:17:57.240 --> 0:18:01.080 The Times London, Kaimni actually has a planning part if 0:18:01.080 --> 0:18:04.040 the IRGC stops fighting, if the regime looks like it's 0:18:04.040 --> 0:18:06.760 about the collapse, then it looks like Comedy is basically 0:18:06.800 --> 0:18:11.080 going to hit the road. He's gonna hit the panic, 0:18:11.119 --> 0:18:13.560 butt him and make a bee line straight for Lamar 0:18:13.640 --> 0:18:17.320 Putin's welcoming warm bosom in Moscow. He'll basically in that case, 0:18:17.359 --> 0:18:19.800 Comedy will basically be trying to do the same thing 0:18:19.840 --> 0:18:23.280 that Bascher al Asad did after he was toppled in Damascus, Syria, 0:18:23.760 --> 0:18:26.400 just over a year ago. Very hard to know exactly 0:18:26.440 --> 0:18:29.240 how accurate this reporting is, but it does seem pretty 0:18:29.240 --> 0:18:32.800 clear that this is the most serious uprising against the 0:18:32.840 --> 0:18:36.280 Irani regime at least since the Green Revolution of two 0:18:36.280 --> 0:18:39.320 thousand and nine, during the very early years of the 0:18:39.320 --> 0:18:42.440 Obam presidency. It's true that other there have been protests 0:18:42.440 --> 0:18:44.840 against the running regime for many, many years. There are 0:18:44.880 --> 0:18:46.640 a lot of women who are protesting the he job 0:18:46.680 --> 0:18:48.680 as recently as a few years ago in twenty twenty two. 0:18:48.760 --> 0:18:51.440 This happens on a fairly regular basis because the regime 0:18:51.520 --> 0:18:54.800 was just frankly that evil. But this is going on 0:18:54.840 --> 0:18:57.399 for a while and they have good reason to be upset. 0:18:57.480 --> 0:19:01.639 The currency, the real has dropped forty percent, inflation is 0:19:01.680 --> 0:19:04.159 through the roof, the economy is in the toilet. The 0:19:04.280 --> 0:19:07.240 entire country is heavily sanctioned due to their financing of 0:19:07.359 --> 0:19:11.320 terrorist activity. There's been a terrible drought and the country 0:19:11.359 --> 0:19:14.040 has as deeply struggled to provide wa are the most 0:19:14.240 --> 0:19:17.560 basic of baar necessities to their people there. So is 0:19:17.600 --> 0:19:20.439 the regime going to fall? Well, look, he never acount 0:19:20.440 --> 0:19:23.640 your chickens before their hatch. Donald Trump, for what it's worth, 0:19:23.720 --> 0:19:27.480 kind of now playing this second term more moralistic, more 0:19:27.480 --> 0:19:31.760 interventionist person, Donald Trump saying that if the regime starts 0:19:31.840 --> 0:19:34.200 killing in mass some of their own distance, some of 0:19:34.240 --> 0:19:37.120 their own protests, the United States is going to get involved, 0:19:37.760 --> 0:19:43.280 which is yet another another threat of humanitarian or humanitarian 0:19:43.400 --> 0:19:47.960 adjacent intervention, playing off of his intervention on Christmas Day 0:19:48.000 --> 0:19:52.119 in Nigeria where he attacked ISIS related Islamis cells in 0:19:52.200 --> 0:19:56.800 order to save the persecuted besieged Christians of Nigeria. Now 0:19:56.800 --> 0:20:00.280 it's only humanitarian adjacent in the case of Iran, because 0:20:00.280 --> 0:20:03.720 Iran is also a horrific national security threat, and removing 0:20:03.720 --> 0:20:08.840 that regime would almost assuredly definitely be a net positive 0:20:08.880 --> 0:20:11.400 for the United States, for the West, frankly, for all 0:20:11.480 --> 0:20:14.520 of humanity there. But we're not going to get involved 0:20:14.520 --> 0:20:18.160 necessarily militarily with Iran. But it does seem entirely possible 0:20:18.520 --> 0:20:21.000 that you could see the United States engage, not just 0:20:21.080 --> 0:20:24.159 in moral or rhetorical supports, it seemed entirely possible that 0:20:24.200 --> 0:20:26.919 the administration might start getting involved when it comes to 0:20:27.000 --> 0:20:30.159 trying to vet individuals may provide weapons there at a 0:20:30.160 --> 0:20:34.000 bare minimum, this administration that is deeply morally and rhetorically 0:20:34.040 --> 0:20:37.040 supportive of the Iranian people. In fact, some of the 0:20:37.040 --> 0:20:40.080 protesters in Tehran just over the past couple of days, 0:20:40.080 --> 0:20:43.320 this is an amazing anecdote. They actually took a street 0:20:43.720 --> 0:20:46.800 and they renamed the street. The street was actually renamed 0:20:46.880 --> 0:20:50.760 over a former Islamist in the theocratic regime, and they 0:20:50.800 --> 0:20:54.000 renamed it after Donald Trump because Donald Trump is known 0:20:54.000 --> 0:20:57.919 as a champion of the Iranian people. Look in many ways, folks, 0:20:58.000 --> 0:21:00.760 I have some of the exact same horrific memories of 0:21:00.840 --> 0:21:03.880 the regime change boon doggles that you probably do. The 0:21:03.920 --> 0:21:06.800 Iraq War was a disaster, and frankly, the winner of 0:21:06.800 --> 0:21:10.000 the Iraq War was actually this regime, the Irani regime, 0:21:10.040 --> 0:21:13.040 who profited immensely off of the two trillion dollars that 0:21:13.520 --> 0:21:17.320 were wasted wasted by the United States of America. But 0:21:17.640 --> 0:21:20.879 it's important also to not overread the lessons of the 0:21:21.000 --> 0:21:24.640 failed moralistic boon doggles of yesteryear. Is simply the case 0:21:24.680 --> 0:21:27.760 of the United States has regimes on the world stage, 0:21:27.800 --> 0:21:29.840 some of which are friendly to us, some of which 0:21:29.920 --> 0:21:32.320 are hostile to us. The amount of American blood on 0:21:32.359 --> 0:21:37.720 the hands of the Irani regime is impossible to even quantify. 0:21:37.800 --> 0:21:40.439 It is a horrific regime. And when it comes to 0:21:40.520 --> 0:21:45.320