WEBVTT - How Hungary’s Conservatives Are Being Wiped Out 0:00:15.080 --> 0:00:18.480 For more than fifteen years, the country of Hungary has 0:00:18.560 --> 0:00:23.239 been a sort of conservative beacon in Europe, standing against 0:00:23.280 --> 0:00:27.840 the dominance of the EU, the European Union, protecting its 0:00:27.920 --> 0:00:35.200 borders and boldly and unapologetically proclaiming the principles of free markets, 0:00:36.600 --> 0:00:43.320 traditional family values and also Christianity. Recently, however, there was 0:00:43.320 --> 0:00:47.360 a sort of shock election in Hungary and the opposition 0:00:47.520 --> 0:00:52.440 party came to power. Victor Orban, having ruled for some 0:00:52.640 --> 0:00:56.880 fifteen or sixteen years, has been out of power and 0:00:56.960 --> 0:01:02.200 the new government, while running and a sort of centrist platform, 0:01:02.720 --> 0:01:06.039 is now beginning to show its true colors. I'm delighted 0:01:06.080 --> 0:01:10.120 to have as a guest blash Orban, no relation to 0:01:10.240 --> 0:01:14.600 Victor Orban. Blash Orban is the former political director for 0:01:14.880 --> 0:01:19.560 Victor Orban, and he's also a member of the Hungarian Parliament. 0:01:19.560 --> 0:01:23.160 He's here to update us on what's happening in Hungary 0:01:23.720 --> 0:01:27.200 right now. Blash welcome, thank you for joining me. The 0:01:27.280 --> 0:01:29.920 two of us had the pleasure of sharing a stage 0:01:29.959 --> 0:01:32.839 together a few months ago in Budapest. This was at 0:01:32.880 --> 0:01:38.920 Sea Pac Europe being held in Budapest, and we had 0:01:38.959 --> 0:01:42.680 a very interesting Yeah, we had a very interesting discussion 0:01:43.080 --> 0:01:47.280 focusing a little bit more on American politics. But I 0:01:47.319 --> 0:01:49.880 want to ask you about Hungary. May I start by 0:01:49.920 --> 0:01:53.560 asking you, I'm sure you've had some weeks now just 0:01:53.600 --> 0:01:56.480 to do a bit of a post mortem on what 0:01:56.760 --> 0:02:01.320 the result of the recent election meant in Hungary. In 0:02:01.360 --> 0:02:05.160 other words, many of us expected Victor Orban to win again. 0:02:05.920 --> 0:02:09.280 Perhaps you did as well. What happened? What did the 0:02:09.360 --> 0:02:11.840 Hungarian people vote for this time around? 0:02:13.440 --> 0:02:16.720 Well, thank you very much first for having me and 0:02:16.840 --> 0:02:18.000 have another conversation. 0:02:19.200 --> 0:02:20.840 I enjoyed the last time as well. 0:02:22.840 --> 0:02:26.560 Losing an election is always bad, so I would recommend 0:02:26.639 --> 0:02:31.800 everyone to win every single election, but unfortunately, in a 0:02:31.880 --> 0:02:36.200 democracy it's not possible. Sixteen years, it's. 0:02:36.080 --> 0:02:36.760 A long time. 0:02:37.800 --> 0:02:42.519 Europe as you and probably the audience also knows that 0:02:43.360 --> 0:02:47.959 it's struggling economically. We have a war in our neighborhood 0:02:48.000 --> 0:02:50.880 which goes on for like four years. It has a 0:02:50.960 --> 0:02:54.840 devastating consequence. I'm not talking about the security aspect, but 0:02:55.160 --> 0:03:01.200 the economic aspect, rising energy prizes, affordability issues, inflation and 0:03:01.240 --> 0:03:08.040 so on and so on. And so a new political 0:03:08.160 --> 0:03:14.240 party emerged. They were backed by Brussels with every mean 0:03:14.440 --> 0:03:18.200 which was possible. They were backed by the Ukrainians as well. 0:03:18.280 --> 0:03:23.640 They were backed by foreign secret services, they were backed 0:03:23.680 --> 0:03:27.240 by the big social media platforms, they were backed by 0:03:27.240 --> 0:03:31.240 European Commission censorship machinery. 0:03:31.480 --> 0:03:33.480 So we had a huge fight. 0:03:34.040 --> 0:03:39.080 But this time the majority of the Hungarian citizens voted 0:03:39.960 --> 0:03:44.680 for change. The opposition party made tons of promises and 0:03:44.760 --> 0:03:47.760 they told that told the voters that they are not 0:03:48.000 --> 0:03:53.880 going to change the fundamental structure of Hungarian politics and 0:03:53.680 --> 0:03:58.120 the most important social policies. But of course, as it 0:03:58.200 --> 0:04:01.440 happened so many times, when some is just using the 0:04:01.520 --> 0:04:05.120 slogan of hope and change without any content, it turns 0:04:05.160 --> 0:04:09.400 out after the election the promises are not as they 0:04:09.400 --> 0:04:14.880 were before, and the liberal takeover and the Brussels needs 0:04:14.920 --> 0:04:17.719 are coming to be more and more visible on every 0:04:17.800 --> 0:04:26.000 day political issues. Why we lost is I think we 0:04:26.080 --> 0:04:31.000 lost because we were not able to convince the voters. 0:04:31.520 --> 0:04:34.480 But we were on the right side and so therefore 0:04:35.080 --> 0:04:38.440 many millions of people voted in favor of us, so 0:04:38.480 --> 0:04:43.719 we have to keep fighting and representing them. Victor Urbain 0:04:43.920 --> 0:04:46.800 was for like sixteen years accused of being a dictator, 0:04:46.920 --> 0:04:50.800 But show me a dictator who is losing elections and 0:04:50.880 --> 0:04:55.080 stepping down and having a smooth transition procedure. 0:04:55.200 --> 0:04:58.440 So what is the good thing in a bad thing. 0:04:58.640 --> 0:05:01.000 Is that at least we could prove move to the 0:05:01.160 --> 0:05:06.880 entire international audience that all these accusations and claims were wrong, 0:05:07.200 --> 0:05:11.520 because like in a democracy, sometimes you louse, sometimes you fight, 0:05:11.640 --> 0:05:13.360 but there is always a way to come back. 0:05:14.720 --> 0:05:16.920 The new party headed by this guy, I'm not sure 0:05:16.960 --> 0:05:19.919 if I say I'm saying his name right, but Peter Maggiar, 0:05:20.000 --> 0:05:22.160 I guess is the way I would pronounce it. 0:05:23.000 --> 0:05:25.520 And he is here and it is quite good. 0:05:27.279 --> 0:05:30.560 Well, I've a I feel good about that. I would hate, 0:05:30.920 --> 0:05:33.080 you know, hate to say his name wrong. Well, an 0:05:33.120 --> 0:05:35.800 event he comes out of your party. He's sort of 0:05:35.800 --> 0:05:39.400 a dissident, and as you mentioned, he ran as a centrist. 0:05:39.440 --> 0:05:41.520 I think I saw him saying even after the election, 0:05:41.720 --> 0:05:44.240 something like, you know, don't think that we are going 0:05:44.279 --> 0:05:46.559 to be opening the border just because a new party 0:05:46.600 --> 0:05:49.760 has come into power. I got the impression, and some 0:05:49.800 --> 0:05:53.159 people commented on social media that this guy is going 0:05:53.200 --> 0:05:56.560 to be a kind of Victor orban Light. He's going 0:05:56.600 --> 0:05:59.120 to be in the same direction, although maybe with a 0:05:59.160 --> 0:06:02.839 softer footprin But as it turns out, now that we 0:06:02.960 --> 0:06:07.680 have a little time to get a gauge on what 0:06:07.800 --> 0:06:10.520 the new government is doing. It looks like there are 0:06:10.600 --> 0:06:14.400 some really troubling signs. And I don't just mean that 0:06:14.440 --> 0:06:18.839 he's adopting different policies, but rather there seems to be 0:06:18.880 --> 0:06:25.160 an attempt to, you could almost say, turn their victory 0:06:25.200 --> 0:06:30.679 into something more permanent, subvert the opportunities for free debate 0:06:30.800 --> 0:06:33.800 and free elections in the future. Talk a little bit 0:06:33.920 --> 0:06:37.719 about some of the measures that you are seeing that 0:06:37.880 --> 0:06:43.000 are sort of rigging the process in a manner that 0:06:43.560 --> 0:06:46.560 is troubling for constitutional and parliamentary democracy. 0:06:47.720 --> 0:06:51.400 So for American audience is probably hard to see, but 0:06:51.720 --> 0:06:56.400 in every single European member states, the politics it's quite simple. 0:06:56.680 --> 0:07:01.880 There are the pro Brussels parties who are signing up 0:07:01.920 --> 0:07:07.839 with the liberal approach of the Brusselian elite. This is 0:07:07.920 --> 0:07:14.160 mainly an auto itarian liberal attitude, where you're using state power, censorship, 0:07:14.360 --> 0:07:19.840 financial regulation to keep control even if the will of 0:07:19.880 --> 0:07:22.760 the people turns to different directions. This is the reason 0:07:22.800 --> 0:07:27.520 why EU is not able to have proper answers to 0:07:27.640 --> 0:07:31.680 the migration challenge. For example, it's not because the European 0:07:32.480 --> 0:07:36.840 citizens are not aware of the fact that mass migration 0:07:37.240 --> 0:07:41.760 is a problem, but the center, so the federal structure 0:07:42.040 --> 0:07:45.920 is trying to push direction, to push things into a 0:07:45.960 --> 0:07:48.640 different direction. This is what's going on, and this has 0:07:48.680 --> 0:07:53.040 happened in Hungary as well. When a pro Brussels party 0:07:53.240 --> 0:07:57.880 is taking over, it means that auto itarian liberal tendencies 0:07:58.040 --> 0:08:03.400 are emerging immediately. That first decision was the most anti 0:08:03.440 --> 0:08:08.600 democratic decision you can imagine. They banned the banned the 0:08:08.680 --> 0:08:12.800 Hungarian people from re electing Victor Orban if they want 0:08:12.840 --> 0:08:19.080 to do so, because they terminated his limit and they 0:08:19.080 --> 0:08:22.080 said that it's not any more possible to vote for 0:08:22.240 --> 0:08:24.720 Victor Orban, even if the people wants to do so. 0:08:25.160 --> 0:08:31.040 The second one was like they try to ban the 0:08:31.160 --> 0:08:35.520 conservative politicians to be re elected after they spent twelve 0:08:35.640 --> 0:08:38.840 years in the parliament. Imagine that there is a political 0:08:38.880 --> 0:08:41.240 party in the US which says that you cannot be 0:08:41.280 --> 0:08:44.360 a US senator because you have been a Unis senator 0:08:44.440 --> 0:08:46.679 for twelve years, so now. 0:08:46.640 --> 0:08:48.080 Your termin issue is over. 0:08:48.880 --> 0:08:52.240 They made a constitution. They are planning to accept the 0:08:52.280 --> 0:08:55.680 constitutional change, which is saying that the president mandate is 0:08:55.720 --> 0:08:59.720 over simply because he's not coming from their political party. 0:09:00.280 --> 0:09:04.000 And you're probably heard and seen that we have a 0:09:04.200 --> 0:09:11.479 very vibrant conservative ecosystem, Angieo Stink Tank, civil society organizations. 0:09:11.559 --> 0:09:18.240 Here they introduced a law a very communistic way of understanding. 0:09:18.320 --> 0:09:18.920 They want to. 0:09:19.480 --> 0:09:25.200 Ban those institutions, close those institutions that nationalize their assets, 0:09:25.240 --> 0:09:28.200 and the same thing happening with the church institutions, mainly 0:09:28.240 --> 0:09:30.920 in the field of education. So you can see the 0:09:31.000 --> 0:09:33.440 clear sign of auto itarian liberalism. 0:09:33.480 --> 0:09:34.880 When when when when. 0:09:34.720 --> 0:09:39.079 You, when you, even if you win election, you are 0:09:39.120 --> 0:09:43.240 afraid of the people's decisions and you want to do 0:09:43.400 --> 0:09:46.080 everything to keep control on the system. This is something 0:09:46.120 --> 0:09:51.679 which which which shouldn't be acceptable on the soil of Europe. 0:09:53.200 --> 0:09:56.400 It seems like with regard to the banning of victor 0:09:56.559 --> 0:10:00.960 or ban as well as the restrictions on future and 0:10:01.080 --> 0:10:04.880 members of your party running again, the government was kind 0:10:04.920 --> 0:10:07.240 of sneaky about it in the sense that they didn't 0:10:07.320 --> 0:10:10.720 say we are banning the opposition. What they did was 0:10:10.760 --> 0:10:15.360 they came up with rules that were neutral on their face. 0:10:15.440 --> 0:10:18.959 So something like nobody can run for re election after 0:10:19.040 --> 0:10:22.840 so many years, and yet the clear impact is to 0:10:22.920 --> 0:10:26.280 fall on your party and benefit their party. So what 0:10:26.400 --> 0:10:30.240 seems to be a kind of neutral principle is in 0:10:30.280 --> 0:10:32.880 fact highly one sided in its application. 0:10:34.440 --> 0:10:35.559 Yes, it's true. 0:10:35.600 --> 0:10:39.520 Imagine the situation that after the first term, by then 0:10:39.559 --> 0:10:43.520 administration is coming up with the constitutional change where they 0:10:43.520 --> 0:10:48.400 are saying that people with blonde hair cannot be former 0:10:48.480 --> 0:10:52.120 presidents with blonde hair cannot be re elected. Who is 0:10:52.160 --> 0:10:55.920 the former president with blonde hair is Donald Trump? So, 0:10:56.320 --> 0:11:01.680 like you know, that's personalized legislation. Everybody knows, even them 0:11:02.000 --> 0:11:06.080 are saying it out loudly that this is because people 0:11:06.160 --> 0:11:10.760 have had enough with Victor Orban. You know, he lost 0:11:10.800 --> 0:11:15.640 the election, he won like five elections, he lost many more. 0:11:15.720 --> 0:11:18.680 But why don't we let the people to decide what 0:11:18.760 --> 0:11:21.360 they want to achieve, what they want to introduce if 0:11:21.400 --> 0:11:24.360 they are afraid of the from the will of the people. 0:11:24.440 --> 0:11:29.560 So that's the question, and it's a very very very 0:11:30.000 --> 0:11:32.839 liberal approach. I would say, this is how things are 0:11:32.880 --> 0:11:38.240 operating in Europe right now. They were canceling election in 0:11:38.280 --> 0:11:43.360 a neighboring country. They were trying to jail the most 0:11:43.960 --> 0:11:48.880 prominent figure of the conservative opposition in France, maney In 0:11:48.960 --> 0:11:50.720 Lapenz Jordan Bardella. 0:11:51.200 --> 0:11:52.840 The secret services is. 0:11:54.640 --> 0:11:58.680 Putting under pressure if there which is the most popular. 0:11:59.160 --> 0:12:00.720 Party in in Germany. 0:12:00.800 --> 0:12:05.240 So Unfortunately, this is the everyday reality in Britain. If 0:12:05.280 --> 0:12:09.199 you are committing hate speech crimes which means you are 0:12:09.240 --> 0:12:13.560 criticizing migration policy or the current leader of the country, 0:12:13.600 --> 0:12:14.520 you go to jails. 0:12:15.200 --> 0:12:18.040 Unfortunately, this is the everyday reality. 0:12:17.920 --> 0:12:20.840 In Europe, in every single country which is governed by 0:12:20.880 --> 0:12:21.480 the liberals. 0:12:24.760 --> 0:12:28.360 Why is it so complicated to get prescription medication? 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Chapter help me 0:14:25.080 --> 0:14:27.920 and thousands of my viewers and listeners save real money 0:14:28.120 --> 0:14:30.600 and a ton of stress when it comes to medicare, 0:14:30.640 --> 0:14:33.920 So take back control. Click the link and connect with 0:14:34.080 --> 0:14:40.160 chapter today. Well, Lash, what do you think on the 0:14:40.240 --> 0:14:45.160 issue of migration? What do you think is the motive 0:14:46.120 --> 0:14:50.440 for opening the borders in this way? It seems like 0:14:50.520 --> 0:14:54.160 it is imported into so many of these countries, a 0:14:54.560 --> 0:14:59.400 whole host of problems, increase dependency on the state and 0:14:59.480 --> 0:15:03.880 so an economic burden, a burden on the schools and 0:15:03.960 --> 0:15:08.120 the education system. This is not even to mentioned issues 0:15:08.120 --> 0:15:12.720 of crime. They are greater risk of terrorism. Why would 0:15:13.280 --> 0:15:16.240 these Europeans, why would the elites in Brussels, for that matter, 0:15:16.800 --> 0:15:19.920 see this as a net plus for Europe. Let's put 0:15:19.960 --> 0:15:22.360 ourselves in their places for a moment. What do they 0:15:22.440 --> 0:15:23.800 stand to gain from this? 0:15:25.880 --> 0:15:27.960 So in just a. 0:15:27.880 --> 0:15:30.760 Couple weeks time, I will be a member of the 0:15:30.800 --> 0:15:35.520 European Parliament and I would try to fight for my 0:15:35.600 --> 0:15:40.840 country there in Brussels. And I went to the Parliament 0:15:40.920 --> 0:15:44.920 a couple of weeks ago to make to make the 0:15:44.960 --> 0:15:46.960 first meetings and prepare for the new job. 0:15:47.640 --> 0:15:52.000 And I was by accident walking through the hallway. 0:15:51.600 --> 0:15:56.400 Which was which was which was for the Green Party, 0:15:56.600 --> 0:16:00.880 which is the most liberal and verdical and leftist party 0:16:00.920 --> 0:16:04.880 in European Parliament, and there were just signs and bier 0:16:04.960 --> 0:16:08.240 wars on the walls decorated by the Greens for the 0:16:08.280 --> 0:16:10.840 people who are walking there, and that was one sign 0:16:10.880 --> 0:16:14.840 where they were saying refugees welcome, everybody welcome, and bring 0:16:14.880 --> 0:16:16.200 your families as well. 0:16:16.760 --> 0:16:20.480 So I had a feeling and they were very proud 0:16:20.560 --> 0:16:20.800 of it. 0:16:21.080 --> 0:16:26.200 So that's not just happening by coincidence or by letting 0:16:26.240 --> 0:16:31.960 it happen by negligence, but that's their political strategy and 0:16:32.000 --> 0:16:34.880 they are very proud of it, and that's the majority 0:16:34.920 --> 0:16:37.840 of the current European Parliament. Many of them are not 0:16:38.160 --> 0:16:42.880 saying it out loud, but the voting record, their track 0:16:42.960 --> 0:16:48.080 record is obviously showing that they are together with the Greens. 0:16:48.640 --> 0:16:52.720 And I think the reason behind it is sometimes it's 0:16:52.720 --> 0:16:59.160 called a conspiracy theory, but in reality it's population exchange 0:17:00.080 --> 0:17:04.719 on voters who are in favor of their policies, and 0:17:04.800 --> 0:17:08.840 they think that only the immigrant background population will be 0:17:08.920 --> 0:17:11.439 ready to who are dependent on the state, would be 0:17:11.480 --> 0:17:15.199 ready to support their radical policies, which is otherwise not 0:17:15.240 --> 0:17:21.120 supported by the the the original people of Europe. That's 0:17:21.200 --> 0:17:25.560 one element, and the other element is there are some 0:17:25.560 --> 0:17:30.240 some economy, economic need for workfare or at least this 0:17:30.280 --> 0:17:33.760 is This was the argumentation ten years ago. I'm not 0:17:33.800 --> 0:17:37.119 sure whether it's still the case, since the economic decline 0:17:37.280 --> 0:17:42.879 of Europe is like visible. Unemployment rate will be growing 0:17:42.960 --> 0:17:45.840 and we are not just talking about the AI but 0:17:46.119 --> 0:17:49.680 like the industrialization. 0:17:48.880 --> 0:17:53.760 Which is which is which is going on in Europe. 0:17:53.960 --> 0:17:57.440 So I'm not sure whether this is still a valid argumentation. 0:17:57.600 --> 0:18:00.840 What I do think is there are the leftists who 0:18:00.880 --> 0:18:04.480 deeply believe that they have to replace the people they need, 0:18:04.520 --> 0:18:11.240 different people with different without having affiliation or natural affiliation 0:18:11.320 --> 0:18:15.840 towards their own on nation and homeland, because otherwise they 0:18:15.880 --> 0:18:19.679 are not going to win elections and grab power. I 0:18:19.760 --> 0:18:23.080 know it's simple, but I am following very closely the 0:18:23.119 --> 0:18:26.680 European developments field of migration for ten years, and this 0:18:26.760 --> 0:18:27.640 is what's going on. 0:18:28.160 --> 0:18:28.960 And with the. 0:18:28.880 --> 0:18:33.560 Migration Pact, everybody they accepted the new law. Everybody is 0:18:33.600 --> 0:18:36.960 communicating that you know, this is a solution to solve 0:18:37.000 --> 0:18:40.800 the problems. But the entire law is allow is about 0:18:40.840 --> 0:18:44.960 that if people entering the territory already enter the territory 0:18:45.000 --> 0:18:45.400 of you. 0:18:45.880 --> 0:18:49.360 How we distribute them among each other. 0:18:49.840 --> 0:18:54.480 And how we welcome those people who are who are 0:18:54.520 --> 0:18:59.199 passing our borders illegally, and how we create open refugee 0:18:59.200 --> 0:19:02.200 camps for them, And what is the capacity of every 0:19:02.200 --> 0:19:07.359 single country has to maintain just because having like enough 0:19:08.160 --> 0:19:12.400 open open enough for Refugyes, So the situation is very 0:19:12.400 --> 0:19:14.760 bad in Europe and happy to see that in the 0:19:14.880 --> 0:19:18.679 United States there is a government which is fighting against 0:19:18.720 --> 0:19:23.160 illegal migration. If it also if it requires tough decisions, 0:19:23.200 --> 0:19:24.919 but this is the only way to do so. 0:19:26.520 --> 0:19:31.320 Well, as you mentioned a little earlier, that the conservatives 0:19:31.320 --> 0:19:35.439 in Hungary have done something that is certainly not the 0:19:35.480 --> 0:19:39.480 case in America and quite unique and extremely impressive, which 0:19:39.520 --> 0:19:45.520 is to build a cultural and intellectual a social ecosystem 0:19:45.600 --> 0:19:52.119 of think tanks, universities, educational institutions, media and all of 0:19:52.119 --> 0:19:55.520 this is a way to be able to compete in 0:19:55.560 --> 0:19:59.960 the public square to advance your arguments. And you said 0:20:00.119 --> 0:20:03.760 that this new government is trying to come up with 0:20:03.920 --> 0:20:10.320 schemes or maybe already has to take over this cultural 0:20:10.400 --> 0:20:14.040 infrastructure that has been built over many many years. How 0:20:14.080 --> 0:20:17.200 are they doing that, what is their pretext or excuse 0:20:17.320 --> 0:20:20.040 for doing it, and are they going to succeed? 0:20:21.920 --> 0:20:27.360 Well, it's not very sophisticated. They just say that they 0:20:27.359 --> 0:20:32.120 have the power to do so, and they are They 0:20:32.240 --> 0:20:36.720 know that it's against the constitutions, so they modify the 0:20:36.800 --> 0:20:39.320 constitution because they have the majority. 0:20:38.840 --> 0:20:41.440 To do so. 0:20:42.400 --> 0:20:46.240 There is a new Minister for Education who is very 0:20:46.320 --> 0:20:51.240 much in favor of gender ideology. She immediately started to 0:20:51.280 --> 0:20:54.119 put pressure on the church institutions. 0:20:55.320 --> 0:20:56.439 What are they doing? 0:20:56.720 --> 0:21:00.680 How is it possible that they have an independent agenda 0:21:01.160 --> 0:21:05.199 which is different from the state agenda. Probably you have 0:21:05.320 --> 0:21:10.680 seen there were some pictures immediately on the major bridges 0:21:10.720 --> 0:21:15.560 of Budapest. Pride flags emerged. Previously under Victor but and 0:21:15.600 --> 0:21:21.159 there were only the national flags, but now everywhere pride 0:21:21.160 --> 0:21:24.560 flags and some places Ukrainian. 0:21:24.119 --> 0:21:27.399 Flags of these are that's a clear sign of. 0:21:28.920 --> 0:21:34.600 Changing the priorities and and about the constitutional ecosystem. They 0:21:34.680 --> 0:21:37.760 just want to nationalize it. Of course, we are fighting. 0:21:38.040 --> 0:21:44.440 We use every opportunity we have. That's a legal battle. 0:21:44.960 --> 0:21:49.040 And I can also say that there are many, many. 0:21:48.560 --> 0:21:52.480 Millions of people in Hungary who are supporting these institutions, 0:21:52.880 --> 0:21:56.280 and there are also many millions in Europe who are 0:21:56.320 --> 0:22:00.959 supporting these institutions. Because the fight what they are taking 0:22:01.080 --> 0:22:04.320 is not just about Hungary. It's about how we counter 0:22:06.359 --> 0:22:12.320 the supernatural nature of European Union and how we preserve 0:22:12.480 --> 0:22:15.280 national identity and national sovereignty. 0:22:15.359 --> 0:22:16.280 So i'm i'm, i'm. 0:22:16.600 --> 0:22:23.200 I'm optimistic about that that we will find supporters and 0:22:23.200 --> 0:22:29.760 and these ecosystems will survive. But but the situation is 0:22:29.760 --> 0:22:34.000 is not easy, and it should concern everyone, not just 0:22:34.160 --> 0:22:36.920 in Hungary, but all across the Western world. 0:22:38.359 --> 0:22:41.119 Well, as we close out you, you're a man of 0:22:41.359 --> 0:22:44.959 philosophical disposition, and so I don't hesitate to ask you 0:22:45.800 --> 0:22:50.760 a broader question, which is that in a parliamentary system, 0:22:50.800 --> 0:22:56.040 you have a majority rule, uh, and you have kind 0:22:56.080 --> 0:23:00.920 of power to the people. But in the American system, 0:23:01.240 --> 0:23:06.280 the American founders were just as afraid that the majority 0:23:06.440 --> 0:23:10.399 would abuse its power as they were afraid that some 0:23:10.560 --> 0:23:14.800 aristocracy or monarchy might do so. And as a result, 0:23:17.480 --> 0:23:19.960 one of the ideas that the founders tried to work 0:23:20.000 --> 0:23:23.480 against is what they call tyranny of the majority, tyranny 0:23:23.480 --> 0:23:27.200 of the majority. But it seems like in parliamentary democracies 0:23:27.840 --> 0:23:33.320 there is not an adequate obstacle or break against tyranny 0:23:33.400 --> 0:23:36.760 of the majority. Do you think that that is a 0:23:36.840 --> 0:23:41.520 structural problem in parliamentary democracy, or are there some remedies 0:23:41.600 --> 0:23:48.080 within parliamentary democracy that can keep a check on exactly 0:23:48.119 --> 0:23:51.080 what you've just described happening now in Hungary. 0:23:52.840 --> 0:23:58.320 Well, if I may answer with the philosophical answer, I'm 0:23:59.080 --> 0:24:04.760 happy to do so. So I think there are checks 0:24:04.760 --> 0:24:07.719 in both systems. The question is whether they are legal 0:24:08.400 --> 0:24:11.919 checks or non legal checks. So, for example, in a 0:24:11.960 --> 0:24:16.919 case of the United States, like many times, constitutional changes 0:24:18.040 --> 0:24:22.399 and the structure changes are managed by legal bodies, like 0:24:22.440 --> 0:24:28.320 for example, the acceptance of gay marriage as it was evolving, 0:24:28.520 --> 0:24:31.400 Like once the Supreme Court in the US said that, 0:24:31.760 --> 0:24:34.560 you know, it's according to the US Constitution. 0:24:34.200 --> 0:24:35.800 Is not allowed to have gay marriage. 0:24:35.840 --> 0:24:39.520 Then they were saying, after a couple generations that every 0:24:39.560 --> 0:24:43.200 state can decide freely whether they have and then they 0:24:43.240 --> 0:24:47.159 said that it's mandatory to provide it according to the 0:24:47.200 --> 0:24:50.600 same text. So if you have a system like this, 0:24:50.760 --> 0:24:55.520 then you give enormous power to the different legal bodies 0:24:55.600 --> 0:24:59.439 in a parliamentary system. If they have the supermajority, the 0:24:59.520 --> 0:25:05.159 legal bodies can do not more. But there is still 0:25:05.320 --> 0:25:09.240 and there has to be a constitutional culture and an 0:25:09.320 --> 0:25:15.280 environment where you simply don't do things because it's wrong, 0:25:16.640 --> 0:25:19.600 it's not allowed to do so, like banning your opponents 0:25:19.920 --> 0:25:22.520 to be erected by the people. If they want to 0:25:22.560 --> 0:25:25.680 do so, it's unacceptable. And even if you can do 0:25:25.760 --> 0:25:32.240 it legally, it undermines your legitimacy and undermines your previous decisions. 0:25:32.680 --> 0:25:36.560 So sooner or later we will reach a point where 0:25:36.600 --> 0:25:39.639 where the Hungarian people will say, look, this is not 0:25:39.920 --> 0:25:41.480 we voted for. 0:25:41.600 --> 0:25:43.639 This is not what we allow to happen. 0:25:43.680 --> 0:25:46.320 Even if you can do it, and there is no 0:25:46.440 --> 0:25:50.399 constitutional body which can stop you, it's not possible. And 0:25:50.480 --> 0:25:54.800 if you go further to that direction, then it can backfire, 0:25:55.160 --> 0:25:59.640 probably not immediately, but one or two years time. 0:26:00.080 --> 0:26:01.320 So this is what I'm hoping for. 0:26:01.400 --> 0:26:06.520 It's a different structure now, the Hungarian constitutional. 0:26:05.720 --> 0:26:11.080 Culture is before is before a test. We will see 0:26:11.119 --> 0:26:11.600 the result. 0:26:13.640 --> 0:26:17.040 Yeah, I think what you're saying is that the remedy 0:26:17.119 --> 0:26:19.680 comes from the people themselves. In other words, that if 0:26:19.720 --> 0:26:24.560 there is a violation so egregious, it will be perceived 0:26:24.600 --> 0:26:27.520 by the people as an abuse of power. And so 0:26:27.640 --> 0:26:30.560 when the people do get their say, they're going to 0:26:30.640 --> 0:26:34.040 be able to speak out against it and vote against it. 0:26:35.119 --> 0:26:39.640 If this is what the new government does, well, thank 0:26:39.680 --> 0:26:42.000 you Balasha orban thank you for joining me. I really 0:26:42.040 --> 0:26:46.720 appreciate it. Very eye opening and somewhat disturbing picture of 0:26:46.760 --> 0:26:49.200 what is happening in your country. 0:26:50.400 --> 0:26:55.920 Thank you very much. I appreciate guys. 0:26:55.960 --> 0:26:57.960 I want to announce I have a new book coming 0:26:58.000 --> 0:27:00.760 out in the fall. I'm very excited about. It's called 0:27:01.040 --> 0:27:06.520 The Stones cry Out subtitle Biblical Archaeology, Prophecy and the 0:27:06.640 --> 0:27:10.960 Last Days. The book outlines the greatest discoveries in Biblical 0:27:11.080 --> 0:27:14.800 archaeology that affirm the Bible, confirm the presence of the 0:27:14.880 --> 0:27:17.720 Jews in the Holy Land, and also support the twin 0:27:17.840 --> 0:27:22.520 foundations of Western civilization, which are Athens and Jerusalem. The 0:27:22.640 --> 0:27:27.320 Stones cry Out has rave reviews from archaeologists, from leading pastors, 0:27:27.640 --> 0:27:31.359