1 00:00:15,080 --> 00:00:18,480 Speaker 1: For more than fifteen years, the country of Hungary has 2 00:00:18,560 --> 00:00:23,239 Speaker 1: been a sort of conservative beacon in Europe, standing against 3 00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:27,840 Speaker 1: the dominance of the EU, the European Union, protecting its 4 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:35,200 Speaker 1: borders and boldly and unapologetically proclaiming the principles of free markets, 5 00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:43,320 Speaker 1: traditional family values and also Christianity. Recently, however, there was 6 00:00:43,320 --> 00:00:47,360 Speaker 1: a sort of shock election in Hungary and the opposition 7 00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:52,440 Speaker 1: party came to power. Victor Orban, having ruled for some 8 00:00:52,640 --> 00:00:56,880 Speaker 1: fifteen or sixteen years, has been out of power and 9 00:00:56,960 --> 00:01:02,200 Speaker 1: the new government, while running and a sort of centrist platform, 10 00:01:02,720 --> 00:01:06,039 Speaker 1: is now beginning to show its true colors. I'm delighted 11 00:01:06,080 --> 00:01:10,120 Speaker 1: to have as a guest blash Orban, no relation to 12 00:01:10,240 --> 00:01:14,600 Speaker 1: Victor Orban. Blash Orban is the former political director for 13 00:01:14,880 --> 00:01:19,560 Speaker 1: Victor Orban, and he's also a member of the Hungarian Parliament. 14 00:01:19,560 --> 00:01:23,160 Speaker 1: He's here to update us on what's happening in Hungary 15 00:01:23,720 --> 00:01:27,200 Speaker 1: right now. Blash welcome, thank you for joining me. The 16 00:01:27,280 --> 00:01:29,920 Speaker 1: two of us had the pleasure of sharing a stage 17 00:01:29,959 --> 00:01:32,839 Speaker 1: together a few months ago in Budapest. This was at 18 00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:38,920 Speaker 1: Sea Pac Europe being held in Budapest, and we had 19 00:01:38,959 --> 00:01:42,680 Speaker 1: a very interesting Yeah, we had a very interesting discussion 20 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:47,280 Speaker 1: focusing a little bit more on American politics. But I 21 00:01:47,319 --> 00:01:49,880 Speaker 1: want to ask you about Hungary. May I start by 22 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:53,560 Speaker 1: asking you, I'm sure you've had some weeks now just 23 00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:56,480 Speaker 1: to do a bit of a post mortem on what 24 00:01:56,760 --> 00:02:01,320 Speaker 1: the result of the recent election meant in Hungary. In 25 00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:05,160 Speaker 1: other words, many of us expected Victor Orban to win again. 26 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:09,280 Speaker 1: Perhaps you did as well. What happened? What did the 27 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:11,840 Speaker 1: Hungarian people vote for this time around? 28 00:02:13,440 --> 00:02:16,720 Speaker 2: Well, thank you very much first for having me and 29 00:02:16,840 --> 00:02:18,000 Speaker 2: have another conversation. 30 00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:20,840 Speaker 3: I enjoyed the last time as well. 31 00:02:22,840 --> 00:02:26,560 Speaker 2: Losing an election is always bad, so I would recommend 32 00:02:26,639 --> 00:02:31,800 Speaker 2: everyone to win every single election, but unfortunately, in a 33 00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:36,200 Speaker 2: democracy it's not possible. Sixteen years, it's. 34 00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:36,760 Speaker 3: A long time. 35 00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:42,519 Speaker 2: Europe as you and probably the audience also knows that 36 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:47,959 Speaker 2: it's struggling economically. We have a war in our neighborhood 37 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:50,880 Speaker 2: which goes on for like four years. It has a 38 00:02:50,960 --> 00:02:54,840 Speaker 2: devastating consequence. I'm not talking about the security aspect, but 39 00:02:55,160 --> 00:03:01,200 Speaker 2: the economic aspect, rising energy prizes, affordability issues, inflation and 40 00:03:01,240 --> 00:03:08,040 Speaker 2: so on and so on. And so a new political 41 00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:14,240 Speaker 2: party emerged. They were backed by Brussels with every mean 42 00:03:14,440 --> 00:03:18,200 Speaker 2: which was possible. They were backed by the Ukrainians as well. 43 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:23,640 Speaker 2: They were backed by foreign secret services, they were backed 44 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:27,240 Speaker 2: by the big social media platforms, they were backed by 45 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:31,240 Speaker 2: European Commission censorship machinery. 46 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:33,480 Speaker 3: So we had a huge fight. 47 00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:39,080 Speaker 2: But this time the majority of the Hungarian citizens voted 48 00:03:39,960 --> 00:03:44,680 Speaker 2: for change. The opposition party made tons of promises and 49 00:03:44,760 --> 00:03:47,760 Speaker 2: they told that told the voters that they are not 50 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:53,880 Speaker 2: going to change the fundamental structure of Hungarian politics and 51 00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:58,120 Speaker 2: the most important social policies. But of course, as it 52 00:03:58,200 --> 00:04:01,440 Speaker 2: happened so many times, when some is just using the 53 00:04:01,520 --> 00:04:05,120 Speaker 2: slogan of hope and change without any content, it turns 54 00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:09,400 Speaker 2: out after the election the promises are not as they 55 00:04:09,400 --> 00:04:14,880 Speaker 2: were before, and the liberal takeover and the Brussels needs 56 00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:17,719 Speaker 2: are coming to be more and more visible on every 57 00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:26,000 Speaker 2: day political issues. Why we lost is I think we 58 00:04:26,080 --> 00:04:31,000 Speaker 2: lost because we were not able to convince the voters. 59 00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:34,480 Speaker 2: But we were on the right side and so therefore 60 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:38,440 Speaker 2: many millions of people voted in favor of us, so 61 00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:43,719 Speaker 2: we have to keep fighting and representing them. Victor Urbain 62 00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:46,800 Speaker 2: was for like sixteen years accused of being a dictator, 63 00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:50,800 Speaker 2: But show me a dictator who is losing elections and 64 00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:55,080 Speaker 2: stepping down and having a smooth transition procedure. 65 00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:58,440 Speaker 3: So what is the good thing in a bad thing. 66 00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:01,000 Speaker 2: Is that at least we could prove move to the 67 00:05:01,160 --> 00:05:06,880 Speaker 2: entire international audience that all these accusations and claims were wrong, 68 00:05:07,200 --> 00:05:11,520 Speaker 2: because like in a democracy, sometimes you louse, sometimes you fight, 69 00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:13,360 Speaker 2: but there is always a way to come back. 70 00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:16,920 Speaker 1: The new party headed by this guy, I'm not sure 71 00:05:16,960 --> 00:05:19,919 Speaker 1: if I say I'm saying his name right, but Peter Maggiar, 72 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:22,160 Speaker 1: I guess is the way I would pronounce it. 73 00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:25,520 Speaker 3: And he is here and it is quite good. 74 00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:30,560 Speaker 1: Well, I've a I feel good about that. I would hate, 75 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:33,080 Speaker 1: you know, hate to say his name wrong. Well, an 76 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:35,800 Speaker 1: event he comes out of your party. He's sort of 77 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:39,400 Speaker 1: a dissident, and as you mentioned, he ran as a centrist. 78 00:05:39,440 --> 00:05:41,520 Speaker 1: I think I saw him saying even after the election, 79 00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:44,240 Speaker 1: something like, you know, don't think that we are going 80 00:05:44,279 --> 00:05:46,559 Speaker 1: to be opening the border just because a new party 81 00:05:46,600 --> 00:05:49,760 Speaker 1: has come into power. I got the impression, and some 82 00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:53,159 Speaker 1: people commented on social media that this guy is going 83 00:05:53,200 --> 00:05:56,560 Speaker 1: to be a kind of Victor orban Light. He's going 84 00:05:56,600 --> 00:05:59,120 Speaker 1: to be in the same direction, although maybe with a 85 00:05:59,160 --> 00:06:02,839 Speaker 1: softer footprin But as it turns out, now that we 86 00:06:02,960 --> 00:06:07,680 Speaker 1: have a little time to get a gauge on what 87 00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:10,520 Speaker 1: the new government is doing. It looks like there are 88 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:14,400 Speaker 1: some really troubling signs. And I don't just mean that 89 00:06:14,440 --> 00:06:18,839 Speaker 1: he's adopting different policies, but rather there seems to be 90 00:06:18,880 --> 00:06:25,160 Speaker 1: an attempt to, you could almost say, turn their victory 91 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:30,679 Speaker 1: into something more permanent, subvert the opportunities for free debate 92 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:33,800 Speaker 1: and free elections in the future. Talk a little bit 93 00:06:33,920 --> 00:06:37,719 Speaker 1: about some of the measures that you are seeing that 94 00:06:37,880 --> 00:06:43,000 Speaker 1: are sort of rigging the process in a manner that 95 00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:46,560 Speaker 1: is troubling for constitutional and parliamentary democracy. 96 00:06:47,720 --> 00:06:51,400 Speaker 2: So for American audience is probably hard to see, but 97 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:56,400 Speaker 2: in every single European member states, the politics it's quite simple. 98 00:06:56,680 --> 00:07:01,880 Speaker 2: There are the pro Brussels parties who are signing up 99 00:07:01,920 --> 00:07:07,839 Speaker 2: with the liberal approach of the Brusselian elite. This is 100 00:07:07,920 --> 00:07:14,160 Speaker 2: mainly an auto itarian liberal attitude, where you're using state power, censorship, 101 00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:19,840 Speaker 2: financial regulation to keep control even if the will of 102 00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:22,760 Speaker 2: the people turns to different directions. This is the reason 103 00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:27,520 Speaker 2: why EU is not able to have proper answers to 104 00:07:27,640 --> 00:07:31,680 Speaker 2: the migration challenge. For example, it's not because the European 105 00:07:32,480 --> 00:07:36,840 Speaker 2: citizens are not aware of the fact that mass migration 106 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:41,760 Speaker 2: is a problem, but the center, so the federal structure 107 00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:45,920 Speaker 2: is trying to push direction, to push things into a 108 00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:48,640 Speaker 2: different direction. This is what's going on, and this has 109 00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:53,040 Speaker 2: happened in Hungary as well. When a pro Brussels party 110 00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:57,880 Speaker 2: is taking over, it means that auto itarian liberal tendencies 111 00:07:58,040 --> 00:08:03,400 Speaker 2: are emerging immediately. That first decision was the most anti 112 00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:08,600 Speaker 2: democratic decision you can imagine. They banned the banned the 113 00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:12,800 Speaker 2: Hungarian people from re electing Victor Orban if they want 114 00:08:12,840 --> 00:08:19,080 Speaker 2: to do so, because they terminated his limit and they 115 00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:22,080 Speaker 2: said that it's not any more possible to vote for 116 00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:24,720 Speaker 2: Victor Orban, even if the people wants to do so. 117 00:08:25,160 --> 00:08:31,040 Speaker 2: The second one was like they try to ban the 118 00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:35,520 Speaker 2: conservative politicians to be re elected after they spent twelve 119 00:08:35,640 --> 00:08:38,840 Speaker 2: years in the parliament. Imagine that there is a political 120 00:08:38,880 --> 00:08:41,240 Speaker 2: party in the US which says that you cannot be 121 00:08:41,280 --> 00:08:44,360 Speaker 2: a US senator because you have been a Unis senator 122 00:08:44,440 --> 00:08:46,679 Speaker 2: for twelve years, so now. 123 00:08:46,640 --> 00:08:48,080 Speaker 3: Your termin issue is over. 124 00:08:48,880 --> 00:08:52,240 Speaker 2: They made a constitution. They are planning to accept the 125 00:08:52,280 --> 00:08:55,680 Speaker 2: constitutional change, which is saying that the president mandate is 126 00:08:55,720 --> 00:08:59,720 Speaker 2: over simply because he's not coming from their political party. 127 00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:04,000 Speaker 2: And you're probably heard and seen that we have a 128 00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:11,479 Speaker 2: very vibrant conservative ecosystem, Angieo Stink Tank, civil society organizations. 129 00:09:11,559 --> 00:09:18,240 Speaker 2: Here they introduced a law a very communistic way of understanding. 130 00:09:18,320 --> 00:09:18,920 Speaker 3: They want to. 131 00:09:19,480 --> 00:09:25,200 Speaker 2: Ban those institutions, close those institutions that nationalize their assets, 132 00:09:25,240 --> 00:09:28,200 Speaker 2: and the same thing happening with the church institutions, mainly 133 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:30,920 Speaker 2: in the field of education. So you can see the 134 00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:33,440 Speaker 2: clear sign of auto itarian liberalism. 135 00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:34,880 Speaker 3: When when when when. 136 00:09:34,720 --> 00:09:39,079 Speaker 2: You, when you, even if you win election, you are 137 00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:43,240 Speaker 2: afraid of the people's decisions and you want to do 138 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:46,080 Speaker 2: everything to keep control on the system. This is something 139 00:09:46,120 --> 00:09:51,679 Speaker 2: which which which shouldn't be acceptable on the soil of Europe. 140 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:56,400 Speaker 1: It seems like with regard to the banning of victor 141 00:09:56,559 --> 00:10:00,960 Speaker 1: or ban as well as the restrictions on future and 142 00:10:01,080 --> 00:10:04,880 Speaker 1: members of your party running again, the government was kind 143 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:07,240 Speaker 1: of sneaky about it in the sense that they didn't 144 00:10:07,320 --> 00:10:10,720 Speaker 1: say we are banning the opposition. What they did was 145 00:10:10,760 --> 00:10:15,360 Speaker 1: they came up with rules that were neutral on their face. 146 00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:18,959 Speaker 1: So something like nobody can run for re election after 147 00:10:19,040 --> 00:10:22,840 Speaker 1: so many years, and yet the clear impact is to 148 00:10:22,920 --> 00:10:26,280 Speaker 1: fall on your party and benefit their party. So what 149 00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:30,240 Speaker 1: seems to be a kind of neutral principle is in 150 00:10:30,280 --> 00:10:32,880 Speaker 1: fact highly one sided in its application. 151 00:10:34,440 --> 00:10:35,559 Speaker 3: Yes, it's true. 152 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:39,520 Speaker 2: Imagine the situation that after the first term, by then 153 00:10:39,559 --> 00:10:43,520 Speaker 2: administration is coming up with the constitutional change where they 154 00:10:43,520 --> 00:10:48,400 Speaker 2: are saying that people with blonde hair cannot be former 155 00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:52,120 Speaker 2: presidents with blonde hair cannot be re elected. Who is 156 00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:55,920 Speaker 2: the former president with blonde hair is Donald Trump? So, 157 00:10:56,320 --> 00:11:01,680 Speaker 2: like you know, that's personalized legislation. Everybody knows, even them 158 00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:06,080 Speaker 2: are saying it out loudly that this is because people 159 00:11:06,160 --> 00:11:10,760 Speaker 2: have had enough with Victor Orban. You know, he lost 160 00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:15,640 Speaker 2: the election, he won like five elections, he lost many more. 161 00:11:15,720 --> 00:11:18,680 Speaker 2: But why don't we let the people to decide what 162 00:11:18,760 --> 00:11:21,360 Speaker 2: they want to achieve, what they want to introduce if 163 00:11:21,400 --> 00:11:24,360 Speaker 2: they are afraid of the from the will of the people. 164 00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:29,560 Speaker 2: So that's the question, and it's a very very very 165 00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:32,839 Speaker 2: liberal approach. I would say, this is how things are 166 00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:38,240 Speaker 2: operating in Europe right now. They were canceling election in 167 00:11:38,280 --> 00:11:43,360 Speaker 2: a neighboring country. They were trying to jail the most 168 00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:48,880 Speaker 2: prominent figure of the conservative opposition in France, maney In 169 00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:50,720 Speaker 2: Lapenz Jordan Bardella. 170 00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:52,840 Speaker 3: The secret services is. 171 00:11:54,640 --> 00:11:58,680 Speaker 2: Putting under pressure if there which is the most popular. 172 00:11:59,160 --> 00:12:00,720 Speaker 3: Party in in Germany. 173 00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:05,240 Speaker 2: So Unfortunately, this is the everyday reality in Britain. If 174 00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:09,199 Speaker 2: you are committing hate speech crimes which means you are 175 00:12:09,240 --> 00:12:13,560 Speaker 2: criticizing migration policy or the current leader of the country, 176 00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:14,520 Speaker 2: you go to jails. 177 00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:18,040 Speaker 3: Unfortunately, this is the everyday reality. 178 00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:20,840 Speaker 2: In Europe, in every single country which is governed by 179 00:12:20,880 --> 00:12:21,480 Speaker 2: the liberals. 180 00:12:24,760 --> 00:12:28,360 Speaker 1: Why is it so complicated to get prescription medication? 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The 198 00:13:40,679 --> 00:13:44,120 Speaker 1: moment you hit that age, everything changes. Sure, you become 199 00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:47,599 Speaker 1: eligible for Medicare, but you also become a target. The 200 00:13:47,679 --> 00:13:51,280 Speaker 1: junk mail, the robocalls, the fine print. It's overwhelming. This 201 00:13:51,400 --> 00:13:55,840 Speaker 1: system is confusing by design, and it benefits big insurance, 202 00:13:55,880 --> 00:13:58,560 Speaker 1: not you. I just turned sixty five. I went through 203 00:13:58,559 --> 00:13:59,880 Speaker 1: this and let me tell you, if you don't know 204 00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:03,240 Speaker 1: what you're doing, you could wind up overpaying or losing 205 00:14:03,280 --> 00:14:06,640 Speaker 1: access to the doctors you trust. That's why I work 206 00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:10,640 Speaker 1: with Chapter. They're independent, They don't push one plan or another. 207 00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:13,360 Speaker 1: They just help you find the one that's right for you. 208 00:14:13,480 --> 00:14:17,319 Speaker 1: Chapters advises are smart, honest, and they actually care. They 209 00:14:17,360 --> 00:14:21,120 Speaker 1: compare every Medicare option nationwide to make sure you don't 210 00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:25,000 Speaker 1: miss a thing, and it's completely free. Chapter help me 211 00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:27,920 Speaker 1: and thousands of my viewers and listeners save real money 212 00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:30,600 Speaker 1: and a ton of stress when it comes to medicare, 213 00:14:30,640 --> 00:14:33,920 Speaker 1: So take back control. Click the link and connect with 214 00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:40,160 Speaker 1: chapter today. Well, Lash, what do you think on the 215 00:14:40,240 --> 00:14:45,160 Speaker 1: issue of migration? What do you think is the motive 216 00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:50,440 Speaker 1: for opening the borders in this way? It seems like 217 00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:54,160 Speaker 1: it is imported into so many of these countries, a 218 00:14:54,560 --> 00:14:59,400 Speaker 1: whole host of problems, increase dependency on the state and 219 00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:03,880 Speaker 1: so an economic burden, a burden on the schools and 220 00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:08,120 Speaker 1: the education system. This is not even to mentioned issues 221 00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:12,720 Speaker 1: of crime. They are greater risk of terrorism. Why would 222 00:15:13,280 --> 00:15:16,240 Speaker 1: these Europeans, why would the elites in Brussels, for that matter, 223 00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:19,920 Speaker 1: see this as a net plus for Europe. Let's put 224 00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:22,360 Speaker 1: ourselves in their places for a moment. What do they 225 00:15:22,440 --> 00:15:23,800 Speaker 1: stand to gain from this? 226 00:15:25,880 --> 00:15:27,960 Speaker 3: So in just a. 227 00:15:27,880 --> 00:15:30,760 Speaker 2: Couple weeks time, I will be a member of the 228 00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:35,520 Speaker 2: European Parliament and I would try to fight for my 229 00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:40,840 Speaker 2: country there in Brussels. And I went to the Parliament 230 00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:44,920 Speaker 2: a couple of weeks ago to make to make the 231 00:15:44,960 --> 00:15:46,960 Speaker 2: first meetings and prepare for the new job. 232 00:15:47,640 --> 00:15:52,000 Speaker 3: And I was by accident walking through the hallway. 233 00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:56,400 Speaker 2: Which was which was which was for the Green Party, 234 00:15:56,600 --> 00:16:00,880 Speaker 2: which is the most liberal and verdical and leftist party 235 00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:04,880 Speaker 2: in European Parliament, and there were just signs and bier 236 00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:08,240 Speaker 2: wars on the walls decorated by the Greens for the 237 00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:10,840 Speaker 2: people who are walking there, and that was one sign 238 00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:14,840 Speaker 2: where they were saying refugees welcome, everybody welcome, and bring 239 00:16:14,880 --> 00:16:16,200 Speaker 2: your families as well. 240 00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:20,480 Speaker 3: So I had a feeling and they were very proud 241 00:16:20,560 --> 00:16:20,800 Speaker 3: of it. 242 00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:26,200 Speaker 2: So that's not just happening by coincidence or by letting 243 00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:31,960 Speaker 2: it happen by negligence, but that's their political strategy and 244 00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:34,880 Speaker 2: they are very proud of it, and that's the majority 245 00:16:34,920 --> 00:16:37,840 Speaker 2: of the current European Parliament. Many of them are not 246 00:16:38,160 --> 00:16:42,880 Speaker 2: saying it out loud, but the voting record, their track 247 00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:48,080 Speaker 2: record is obviously showing that they are together with the Greens. 248 00:16:48,640 --> 00:16:52,720 Speaker 2: And I think the reason behind it is sometimes it's 249 00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:59,160 Speaker 2: called a conspiracy theory, but in reality it's population exchange 250 00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:04,719 Speaker 2: on voters who are in favor of their policies, and 251 00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:08,840 Speaker 2: they think that only the immigrant background population will be 252 00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:11,439 Speaker 2: ready to who are dependent on the state, would be 253 00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:15,199 Speaker 2: ready to support their radical policies, which is otherwise not 254 00:17:15,240 --> 00:17:21,120 Speaker 2: supported by the the the original people of Europe. That's 255 00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:25,560 Speaker 2: one element, and the other element is there are some 256 00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:30,240 Speaker 2: some economy, economic need for workfare or at least this 257 00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:33,760 Speaker 2: is This was the argumentation ten years ago. I'm not 258 00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:37,119 Speaker 2: sure whether it's still the case, since the economic decline 259 00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:42,879 Speaker 2: of Europe is like visible. Unemployment rate will be growing 260 00:17:42,960 --> 00:17:45,840 Speaker 2: and we are not just talking about the AI but 261 00:17:46,119 --> 00:17:49,680 Speaker 2: like the industrialization. 262 00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:53,760 Speaker 3: Which is which is which is going on in Europe. 263 00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:57,440 Speaker 2: So I'm not sure whether this is still a valid argumentation. 264 00:17:57,600 --> 00:18:00,840 Speaker 2: What I do think is there are the leftists who 265 00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:04,480 Speaker 2: deeply believe that they have to replace the people they need, 266 00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:11,240 Speaker 2: different people with different without having affiliation or natural affiliation 267 00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:15,840 Speaker 2: towards their own on nation and homeland, because otherwise they 268 00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:19,679 Speaker 2: are not going to win elections and grab power. I 269 00:18:19,760 --> 00:18:23,080 Speaker 2: know it's simple, but I am following very closely the 270 00:18:23,119 --> 00:18:26,680 Speaker 2: European developments field of migration for ten years, and this 271 00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:27,640 Speaker 2: is what's going on. 272 00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:28,960 Speaker 3: And with the. 273 00:18:28,880 --> 00:18:33,560 Speaker 2: Migration Pact, everybody they accepted the new law. Everybody is 274 00:18:33,600 --> 00:18:36,960 Speaker 2: communicating that you know, this is a solution to solve 275 00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:40,800 Speaker 2: the problems. But the entire law is allow is about 276 00:18:40,840 --> 00:18:44,960 Speaker 2: that if people entering the territory already enter the territory 277 00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:45,400 Speaker 2: of you. 278 00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:49,360 Speaker 3: How we distribute them among each other. 279 00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:54,480 Speaker 2: And how we welcome those people who are who are 280 00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:59,199 Speaker 2: passing our borders illegally, and how we create open refugee 281 00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:02,200 Speaker 2: camps for them, And what is the capacity of every 282 00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:07,359 Speaker 2: single country has to maintain just because having like enough 283 00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:12,400 Speaker 2: open open enough for Refugyes, So the situation is very 284 00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:14,760 Speaker 2: bad in Europe and happy to see that in the 285 00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:18,679 Speaker 2: United States there is a government which is fighting against 286 00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:23,160 Speaker 2: illegal migration. If it also if it requires tough decisions, 287 00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:24,919 Speaker 2: but this is the only way to do so. 288 00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:31,320 Speaker 1: Well, as you mentioned a little earlier, that the conservatives 289 00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:35,439 Speaker 1: in Hungary have done something that is certainly not the 290 00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:39,480 Speaker 1: case in America and quite unique and extremely impressive, which 291 00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:45,520 Speaker 1: is to build a cultural and intellectual a social ecosystem 292 00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:52,119 Speaker 1: of think tanks, universities, educational institutions, media and all of 293 00:19:52,119 --> 00:19:55,520 Speaker 1: this is a way to be able to compete in 294 00:19:55,560 --> 00:19:59,960 Speaker 1: the public square to advance your arguments. And you said 295 00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:03,760 Speaker 1: that this new government is trying to come up with 296 00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:10,320 Speaker 1: schemes or maybe already has to take over this cultural 297 00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:14,040 Speaker 1: infrastructure that has been built over many many years. How 298 00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:17,200 Speaker 1: are they doing that, what is their pretext or excuse 299 00:20:17,320 --> 00:20:20,040 Speaker 1: for doing it, and are they going to succeed? 300 00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:27,360 Speaker 2: Well, it's not very sophisticated. They just say that they 301 00:20:27,359 --> 00:20:32,120 Speaker 2: have the power to do so, and they are They 302 00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:36,720 Speaker 2: know that it's against the constitutions, so they modify the 303 00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:39,320 Speaker 2: constitution because they have the majority. 304 00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:41,440 Speaker 3: To do so. 305 00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:46,240 Speaker 2: There is a new Minister for Education who is very 306 00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:51,240 Speaker 2: much in favor of gender ideology. She immediately started to 307 00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:54,119 Speaker 2: put pressure on the church institutions. 308 00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:56,439 Speaker 3: What are they doing? 309 00:20:56,720 --> 00:21:00,680 Speaker 2: How is it possible that they have an independent agenda 310 00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:05,199 Speaker 2: which is different from the state agenda. Probably you have 311 00:21:05,320 --> 00:21:10,680 Speaker 2: seen there were some pictures immediately on the major bridges 312 00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:15,560 Speaker 2: of Budapest. Pride flags emerged. Previously under Victor but and 313 00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:21,159 Speaker 2: there were only the national flags, but now everywhere pride 314 00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:24,560 Speaker 2: flags and some places Ukrainian. 315 00:21:24,119 --> 00:21:27,399 Speaker 3: Flags of these are that's a clear sign of. 316 00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:34,600 Speaker 2: Changing the priorities and and about the constitutional ecosystem. They 317 00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:37,760 Speaker 2: just want to nationalize it. Of course, we are fighting. 318 00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:44,440 Speaker 2: We use every opportunity we have. That's a legal battle. 319 00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:49,040 Speaker 3: And I can also say that there are many, many. 320 00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:52,480 Speaker 2: Millions of people in Hungary who are supporting these institutions, 321 00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:56,280 Speaker 2: and there are also many millions in Europe who are 322 00:21:56,320 --> 00:22:00,959 Speaker 2: supporting these institutions. Because the fight what they are taking 323 00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:04,320 Speaker 2: is not just about Hungary. It's about how we counter 324 00:22:06,359 --> 00:22:12,320 Speaker 2: the supernatural nature of European Union and how we preserve 325 00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:15,280 Speaker 2: national identity and national sovereignty. 326 00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:16,280 Speaker 3: So i'm i'm, i'm. 327 00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:23,200 Speaker 2: I'm optimistic about that that we will find supporters and 328 00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:29,760 Speaker 2: and these ecosystems will survive. But but the situation is 329 00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:34,000 Speaker 2: is not easy, and it should concern everyone, not just 330 00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:36,920 Speaker 2: in Hungary, but all across the Western world. 331 00:22:38,359 --> 00:22:41,119 Speaker 1: Well, as we close out you, you're a man of 332 00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:44,959 Speaker 1: philosophical disposition, and so I don't hesitate to ask you 333 00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:50,760 Speaker 1: a broader question, which is that in a parliamentary system, 334 00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:56,040 Speaker 1: you have a majority rule, uh, and you have kind 335 00:22:56,080 --> 00:23:00,920 Speaker 1: of power to the people. But in the American system, 336 00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:06,280 Speaker 1: the American founders were just as afraid that the majority 337 00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:10,399 Speaker 1: would abuse its power as they were afraid that some 338 00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:14,800 Speaker 1: aristocracy or monarchy might do so. And as a result, 339 00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:19,960 Speaker 1: one of the ideas that the founders tried to work 340 00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:23,480 Speaker 1: against is what they call tyranny of the majority, tyranny 341 00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:27,200 Speaker 1: of the majority. But it seems like in parliamentary democracies 342 00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:33,320 Speaker 1: there is not an adequate obstacle or break against tyranny 343 00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:36,760 Speaker 1: of the majority. Do you think that that is a 344 00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:41,520 Speaker 1: structural problem in parliamentary democracy, or are there some remedies 345 00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:48,080 Speaker 1: within parliamentary democracy that can keep a check on exactly 346 00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:51,080 Speaker 1: what you've just described happening now in Hungary. 347 00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:58,320 Speaker 2: Well, if I may answer with the philosophical answer, I'm 348 00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:04,760 Speaker 2: happy to do so. So I think there are checks 349 00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:07,719 Speaker 2: in both systems. The question is whether they are legal 350 00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:11,919 Speaker 2: checks or non legal checks. So, for example, in a 351 00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:16,919 Speaker 2: case of the United States, like many times, constitutional changes 352 00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:22,399 Speaker 2: and the structure changes are managed by legal bodies, like 353 00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:28,320 Speaker 2: for example, the acceptance of gay marriage as it was evolving, 354 00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:31,400 Speaker 2: Like once the Supreme Court in the US said that, 355 00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:34,560 Speaker 2: you know, it's according to the US Constitution. 356 00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:35,800 Speaker 3: Is not allowed to have gay marriage. 357 00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:39,520 Speaker 2: Then they were saying, after a couple generations that every 358 00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:43,200 Speaker 2: state can decide freely whether they have and then they 359 00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:47,159 Speaker 2: said that it's mandatory to provide it according to the 360 00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:50,600 Speaker 2: same text. So if you have a system like this, 361 00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:55,520 Speaker 2: then you give enormous power to the different legal bodies 362 00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:59,439 Speaker 2: in a parliamentary system. If they have the supermajority, the 363 00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:05,159 Speaker 2: legal bodies can do not more. But there is still 364 00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:09,240 Speaker 2: and there has to be a constitutional culture and an 365 00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:15,280 Speaker 2: environment where you simply don't do things because it's wrong, 366 00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:19,600 Speaker 2: it's not allowed to do so, like banning your opponents 367 00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:22,520 Speaker 2: to be erected by the people. If they want to 368 00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:25,680 Speaker 2: do so, it's unacceptable. And even if you can do 369 00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:32,240 Speaker 2: it legally, it undermines your legitimacy and undermines your previous decisions. 370 00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:36,560 Speaker 2: So sooner or later we will reach a point where 371 00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:39,639 Speaker 2: where the Hungarian people will say, look, this is not 372 00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:41,480 Speaker 2: we voted for. 373 00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:43,639 Speaker 3: This is not what we allow to happen. 374 00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:46,320 Speaker 2: Even if you can do it, and there is no 375 00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:50,399 Speaker 2: constitutional body which can stop you, it's not possible. And 376 00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:54,800 Speaker 2: if you go further to that direction, then it can backfire, 377 00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:59,640 Speaker 2: probably not immediately, but one or two years time. 378 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:01,320 Speaker 3: So this is what I'm hoping for. 379 00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:06,520 Speaker 2: It's a different structure now, the Hungarian constitutional. 380 00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:11,080 Speaker 3: Culture is before is before a test. We will see 381 00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:11,600 Speaker 3: the result. 382 00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:17,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think what you're saying is that the remedy 383 00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:19,680 Speaker 1: comes from the people themselves. In other words, that if 384 00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:24,560 Speaker 1: there is a violation so egregious, it will be perceived 385 00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:27,520 Speaker 1: by the people as an abuse of power. And so 386 00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:30,560 Speaker 1: when the people do get their say, they're going to 387 00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:34,040 Speaker 1: be able to speak out against it and vote against it. 388 00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:39,640 Speaker 1: If this is what the new government does, well, thank 389 00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:42,000 Speaker 1: you Balasha orban thank you for joining me. I really 390 00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:46,720 Speaker 1: appreciate it. Very eye opening and somewhat disturbing picture of 391 00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:49,200 Speaker 1: what is happening in your country. 392 00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:55,920 Speaker 3: Thank you very much. I appreciate guys. 393 00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:57,960 Speaker 1: I want to announce I have a new book coming 394 00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:00,760 Speaker 1: out in the fall. I'm very excited about. It's called 395 00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:06,520 Speaker 1: The Stones cry Out subtitle Biblical Archaeology, Prophecy and the 396 00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:10,960 Speaker 1: Last Days. The book outlines the greatest discoveries in Biblical 397 00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:14,800 Speaker 1: archaeology that affirm the Bible, confirm the presence of the 398 00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:17,720 Speaker 1: Jews in the Holy Land, and also support the twin 399 00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:22,520 Speaker 1: foundations of Western civilization, which are Athens and Jerusalem. The 400 00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:27,320 Speaker 1: Stones cry Out has rave reviews from archaeologists, from leading pastors, 401 00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:31,359 Speaker 1: and from prominent commentators of The book, published by Charisma Books, 402 00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:35,360 Speaker 1: is available now for pre orders on Amazon. So I'm 403 00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:38,040 Speaker 1: calling a new early birds to order your copies now. 404 00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:40,520 Speaker 1: You'll be the first to get it when it's out.