1 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:03,640 Speaker 1: Life audio. 2 00:00:05,240 --> 00:00:08,399 Speaker 2: Christian apologist Wes Huff has done it again. He appeared 3 00:00:08,400 --> 00:00:11,840 Speaker 2: on one of the largest podcasts in the world, Diary 4 00:00:11,960 --> 00:00:15,240 Speaker 2: of a CEO, with Stephen Bartlett, who asked some wonderful 5 00:00:15,320 --> 00:00:19,040 Speaker 2: questions about God, about Hell, about the person of Jesus, 6 00:00:19,239 --> 00:00:23,159 Speaker 2: and as always Wes answered with boldness, with clarity, and 7 00:00:23,200 --> 00:00:25,599 Speaker 2: with kindness. Quite a few of you have asked me 8 00:00:25,720 --> 00:00:28,200 Speaker 2: what I think about this exchange, so I had my 9 00:00:28,280 --> 00:00:32,000 Speaker 2: team put together different clips and here's my live reaction. 10 00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:33,600 Speaker 2: Let's start with the first one. 11 00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:37,600 Speaker 1: Liars make poor martyrs in that you will die for 12 00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:42,400 Speaker 1: something you believe is true, but the chances of you 13 00:00:42,479 --> 00:00:45,960 Speaker 1: dying for something you know is not true are less likely. 14 00:00:46,080 --> 00:00:48,159 Speaker 1: The interesting thing about the early Disciples is they get 15 00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:51,120 Speaker 1: none of that. In fact, they almost get the complete 16 00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:55,160 Speaker 1: opposite of that, in that Jesus says you're going to 17 00:00:55,160 --> 00:00:59,280 Speaker 1: be persecuted, You're going to be put in front of tribunals, 18 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:02,400 Speaker 1: and you're going to be interrogated, and that's exactly what happens. 19 00:01:02,720 --> 00:01:06,679 Speaker 1: And they know that there is there's a danger to this, 20 00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:09,640 Speaker 1: because we have in the Book of Acts, which is 21 00:01:09,959 --> 00:01:12,679 Speaker 1: the book after the Gospels, we have a reccounting of 22 00:01:12,720 --> 00:01:13,800 Speaker 1: the first Martyr of Stephen. 23 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:16,399 Speaker 2: One of the things I love about Wes's response here 24 00:01:16,560 --> 00:01:18,680 Speaker 2: and in the rest of this podcast is he doesn't 25 00:01:18,800 --> 00:01:22,520 Speaker 2: overstate his case. He's often willing to say, you know what, 26 00:01:22,600 --> 00:01:25,640 Speaker 2: I have thoughts on this, but this is not my 27 00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:30,080 Speaker 2: lane and qualifies his answer. He doesn't say, here's many 28 00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:33,160 Speaker 2: people do that the apostles die and as martyrs proves 29 00:01:33,240 --> 00:01:37,960 Speaker 2: Christianity's true. All he said is that liars make poor martyrs, 30 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:40,240 Speaker 2: and I think he's right about this. As I've done 31 00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:43,360 Speaker 2: in my doctoral work and an academic book on this, 32 00:01:43,800 --> 00:01:47,240 Speaker 2: we can't show that most of the apostles died as 33 00:01:47,319 --> 00:01:50,800 Speaker 2: martyrs historically speaking, but I think we know that they 34 00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:55,080 Speaker 2: were eyewitnesses of the risen Jesus. They believed Jesus had 35 00:01:55,200 --> 00:01:58,160 Speaker 2: risen from the grave, and you might say they put 36 00:01:58,200 --> 00:02:02,080 Speaker 2: their lives on the state to back this up. So 37 00:02:02,520 --> 00:02:06,080 Speaker 2: minimally I think Wes is right. This shows they didn't 38 00:02:06,120 --> 00:02:10,120 Speaker 2: invent this story. They have themselves put in harm's way, 39 00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:14,080 Speaker 2: but really, at least minimally believe that it was true. 40 00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:16,240 Speaker 2: Let's look at another clip. 41 00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:18,080 Speaker 3: The Lockness Monster in Scotland as well, where there's been 42 00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:20,400 Speaker 3: one thousand, five hundred sightings of this big monster in 43 00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:23,639 Speaker 3: the river, and even up until recent times twenty twenty five, 44 00:02:23,680 --> 00:02:26,200 Speaker 3: there was a surge of sightings. Clearly, humans have an 45 00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:29,679 Speaker 3: ability to make things up that are real in some situations. 46 00:02:29,760 --> 00:02:33,679 Speaker 1: Sure, part of the answer to the question is one 47 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:36,400 Speaker 1: of the evidences for Jesus' resurrection is the fact that 48 00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:38,280 Speaker 1: you and I, Steven, are still talking about it almost 49 00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:39,200 Speaker 1: two thousand years later. 50 00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:40,679 Speaker 3: My friend said this to me, and I was telling 51 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:42,400 Speaker 3: you before about my Christian friend. He was like, why 52 00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:45,079 Speaker 3: are we still talking about what We can't prove it right? 53 00:02:45,120 --> 00:02:46,920 Speaker 3: It wasn't It didn't happen, So we're always going to 54 00:02:46,919 --> 00:02:48,520 Speaker 3: talk about it. There's never going to be I mean, 55 00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:50,600 Speaker 3: unless something happens. Right. 56 00:02:50,919 --> 00:02:54,320 Speaker 1: The difference is that there are these other Messianic movements 57 00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:59,040 Speaker 1: that happen in the ancient world, and so like Simon Barjura, 58 00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:01,560 Speaker 1: the reason why we're not talking about Simon Barjiura as 59 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:04,400 Speaker 1: a Messianic figure is because he died in his movement, 60 00:03:04,440 --> 00:03:05,080 Speaker 1: died with him. 61 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:09,000 Speaker 2: Wes asks a really interesting question, given that there were 62 00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:12,480 Speaker 2: a lot of Messianic figures, a lot of people who 63 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:15,640 Speaker 2: claim to be prophets and speak for God, Why are 64 00:03:15,639 --> 00:03:18,240 Speaker 2: we still talking about this person Jesus, and why do 65 00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:21,920 Speaker 2: more people follow him than anyone who's ever lived. That's 66 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:25,400 Speaker 2: an important question. Now, I think Stephen is right. Humans 67 00:03:25,600 --> 00:03:29,200 Speaker 2: clearly have the ability to make stuff up. We do 68 00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:32,520 Speaker 2: make stuff up. But there's the difference between the Lotanus 69 00:03:32,639 --> 00:03:37,640 Speaker 2: Monster and the Disciples. With the Disciples, there's no expectation. 70 00:03:38,360 --> 00:03:41,480 Speaker 2: Now we do have Jesus predicting his death, of course 71 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:44,240 Speaker 2: in John two, and in John ten and in Mark 72 00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:48,520 Speaker 2: eight nine and ten, but the Apostles don't understand that 73 00:03:48,640 --> 00:03:51,920 Speaker 2: until after Jesus comes back and they look back and 74 00:03:51,960 --> 00:03:55,320 Speaker 2: see it. So there's not the kind of expectation here 75 00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:58,800 Speaker 2: that is present in the case of the Lotanus Monster. 76 00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:02,360 Speaker 2: But second, believing in the Lotanus Monster it doesn't cost 77 00:04:02,440 --> 00:04:04,440 Speaker 2: you anything. In fact, in the eyes of some people, 78 00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:06,960 Speaker 2: it might make you cool to be able to say 79 00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:09,720 Speaker 2: that you saw the Lotnus Monster. But the Apostles are 80 00:04:09,760 --> 00:04:13,080 Speaker 2: saying that they believe in this person who was crucified 81 00:04:13,240 --> 00:04:18,360 Speaker 2: as an enemy of the state. That puts them minimally 82 00:04:18,920 --> 00:04:22,320 Speaker 2: in harm's way. So why would they invent a story 83 00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:26,520 Speaker 2: of a crucified Messiah and put them at odds with 84 00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:30,080 Speaker 2: not only the religious leaders, but also at odds with Rome. 85 00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:34,839 Speaker 2: That's very different than a belief in the Lotanus monster. So, yes, 86 00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:38,599 Speaker 2: humans do have the proclivity to make stuff up, but 87 00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:41,679 Speaker 2: I want some evidence to show that they in fact 88 00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:45,440 Speaker 2: made up this story about Jesus. And I think all 89 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:48,400 Speaker 2: the indications are that it's not the kind of story 90 00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:51,279 Speaker 2: they would invent. Why would you invent a story where 91 00:04:51,279 --> 00:04:53,680 Speaker 2: somebody says, oh, it's just a thought that makes you 92 00:04:53,760 --> 00:04:57,200 Speaker 2: guilty of murder or adultery. Why would you make up 93 00:04:57,200 --> 00:05:00,760 Speaker 2: a story and say, pick up your cross and follow me. 94 00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:06,760 Speaker 2: And given the crucifixion was the most shameful death, imaginable, 95 00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:12,080 Speaker 2: dishonorable death, and honor was one of the highest attributes 96 00:05:12,560 --> 00:05:15,360 Speaker 2: that people valued in that society, why would you make 97 00:05:15,400 --> 00:05:18,279 Speaker 2: it up? Yes, people make up stuff, but this story 98 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:21,400 Speaker 2: Jesus doesn't have the ring to me of the kind 99 00:05:21,400 --> 00:05:23,560 Speaker 2: of story that would be made up. Let's look at 100 00:05:23,560 --> 00:05:24,159 Speaker 2: another clip. 101 00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:26,080 Speaker 3: Do you have any doubt? 102 00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:26,719 Speaker 2: Oh? 103 00:05:26,760 --> 00:05:28,800 Speaker 3: Of course, Okay, so you have at least even one 104 00:05:28,839 --> 00:05:30,400 Speaker 3: percent doubts? Oh, definitely. 105 00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:33,000 Speaker 1: And I think especially when there are times of things 106 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:36,840 Speaker 1: that are far more existential than historical, when times of 107 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:40,480 Speaker 1: struggle and pain and suffering, and I look at the world, 108 00:05:40,520 --> 00:05:44,240 Speaker 1: and I look at how messy it is, the children 109 00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:47,400 Speaker 1: who die, young people who are abuse, all of these things. 110 00:05:48,279 --> 00:05:51,880 Speaker 1: There are moments where I think, how, how could there 111 00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:52,560 Speaker 1: be a good God. 112 00:05:52,760 --> 00:05:56,840 Speaker 2: I love this answer because, like Wes, I regularly and 113 00:05:56,920 --> 00:06:00,640 Speaker 2: consistently have doubt. Now I have some friends who seem 114 00:06:00,680 --> 00:06:03,400 Speaker 2: to have give to faith and have no doubt. That's 115 00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:07,719 Speaker 2: not me. Now, keep in mind, you can believe something 116 00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:12,960 Speaker 2: and have doubts. Doubt is not the opposite of faith. 117 00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:18,400 Speaker 2: Unbelief is. That's why June twenty two says have mercy 118 00:06:18,640 --> 00:06:22,560 Speaker 2: on those who doubt. Doubt can sometimes be painful. I 119 00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:25,159 Speaker 2: think when Christians pretend or act like we have one 120 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:28,320 Speaker 2: hundred percent certainty and then people have questions and they 121 00:06:28,320 --> 00:06:30,560 Speaker 2: have some doubt, they feel like I might as well 122 00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:34,520 Speaker 2: be an unbeliever. I think that's a profound mistake in 123 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:38,840 Speaker 2: our age of information and AI. I don't know how 124 00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:43,080 Speaker 2: anybody doesn't at least have some doubt. So I think 125 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:45,720 Speaker 2: we ought a model to people and be authentic and 126 00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:47,839 Speaker 2: be honest and say, yeah, I believe it makes sense 127 00:06:47,880 --> 00:06:50,919 Speaker 2: to me. I'm confident, but I have doubts, and I 128 00:06:50,960 --> 00:06:54,039 Speaker 2: think that shows people, you can still believe and follow 129 00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:58,880 Speaker 2: Jesus even if you have some doubt. That's an honest answer. 130 00:06:59,240 --> 00:07:01,520 Speaker 2: Way to go west. Let's look at a fourth clip. 131 00:07:01,760 --> 00:07:04,440 Speaker 3: So if I believe in the science and in that argument, 132 00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:06,400 Speaker 3: in the atheist argument, or I believe in the Bible, 133 00:07:07,000 --> 00:07:10,760 Speaker 3: I still need an answer to like, yeah, but so what. 134 00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:15,640 Speaker 1: That's why the Bible is such an amazing explanation for that, 135 00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:22,360 Speaker 1: Because in a world that tells you ultimately that you're 136 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:26,160 Speaker 1: a product of timeless matter's chance, the Bible looks at you, 137 00:07:26,280 --> 00:07:29,480 Speaker 1: Stephen and says you're creative with meaning and purpose and attention. 138 00:07:29,680 --> 00:07:33,320 Speaker 1: You bear the image of God. So there's something that 139 00:07:33,480 --> 00:07:39,920 Speaker 1: is actually screaming from your biology about who you are 140 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:44,200 Speaker 1: that goes beyond the fact that you're not just a 141 00:07:44,240 --> 00:07:47,640 Speaker 1: physical specimen sitting in front of me. Right, you have 142 00:07:47,720 --> 00:07:52,120 Speaker 1: a mind and that mind is maybe your brain or 143 00:07:52,320 --> 00:07:55,720 Speaker 1: not even sure about that, right, So what makes Stephen Stephen? 144 00:07:56,240 --> 00:07:59,520 Speaker 1: You're not not your body? And that's why I mean, 145 00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:02,880 Speaker 1: there's is an inherent conversation within Christianity about the fact 146 00:08:02,920 --> 00:08:05,640 Speaker 1: that our hope is not a spiritual one. The end 147 00:08:05,680 --> 00:08:06,800 Speaker 1: result is the resurrection. 148 00:08:07,120 --> 00:08:09,760 Speaker 2: The so what question is one of the biggest questions 149 00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:12,200 Speaker 2: we can ask, and I think the Bible begins by 150 00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:17,120 Speaker 2: addressing it Genesis one one. In the beginning, God created. 151 00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:19,080 Speaker 2: The first thing we learn about God is not that 152 00:08:19,120 --> 00:08:22,400 Speaker 2: God is love or holy or righteous, but he's a creator. 153 00:08:22,920 --> 00:08:26,760 Speaker 2: If something is created, there's a purpose for it. The 154 00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:30,720 Speaker 2: Bible begins by saying, the world and human beings, you're 155 00:08:30,760 --> 00:08:35,200 Speaker 2: not a mistake, you're not an accident. You have purpose, 156 00:08:35,640 --> 00:08:39,120 Speaker 2: and you've been made in the image of a holy, 157 00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:45,120 Speaker 2: perfect God. Thus human beings have infinite dignity, value and worth. 158 00:08:45,679 --> 00:08:49,480 Speaker 2: So the so what question is answered by God being 159 00:08:49,480 --> 00:08:53,320 Speaker 2: the creator, giving us purpose, meaning and value embedded in 160 00:08:53,360 --> 00:08:56,840 Speaker 2: the world, embedded in our bodies, embedded in our lives. 161 00:08:57,280 --> 00:09:00,320 Speaker 2: But it goes further. Jesus said in Matthew six thirty three, 162 00:09:00,559 --> 00:09:03,800 Speaker 2: seek ye first the Kingdom of God and his righteousness, 163 00:09:04,360 --> 00:09:07,439 Speaker 2: and all these things shall be added unto you. Not 164 00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:10,600 Speaker 2: only do we have purpose, meaning and value, but we 165 00:09:10,679 --> 00:09:14,200 Speaker 2: have a call, so to speak for our lives. Our 166 00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:18,560 Speaker 2: purpose is to love God and love other people. That's 167 00:09:18,640 --> 00:09:21,040 Speaker 2: what we're called to do. And Jesus says, if we 168 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:25,080 Speaker 2: do that, then all these things shall be added unto you. 169 00:09:25,640 --> 00:09:30,600 Speaker 2: So Christianity answers the question of what is the good life, 170 00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:33,640 Speaker 2: and the good life is those who love God and 171 00:09:33,679 --> 00:09:37,360 Speaker 2: those who love others, As Matthew six point thirty three says, 172 00:09:37,640 --> 00:09:41,240 Speaker 2: if we stop focusing on ourselves, which our culture does, 173 00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:44,480 Speaker 2: and we focus on loving and caring for others, guess 174 00:09:44,480 --> 00:09:50,280 Speaker 2: what we find a meaningful content life. Let's look at 175 00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:51,040 Speaker 2: clip number five. 176 00:09:51,320 --> 00:09:53,720 Speaker 3: So if I don't believe in Jesus, yeah, and I 177 00:09:53,720 --> 00:09:58,520 Speaker 3: don't believe in the Bible, but I live a good life. 178 00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:01,600 Speaker 3: I'm nice to people, artable, try and be kind wherever 179 00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:04,280 Speaker 3: I can be. Yeah, and I don't believe in God? 180 00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:06,960 Speaker 3: Am I going to Hell or heaven? As it relates 181 00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:07,800 Speaker 3: to the scriptures? 182 00:10:08,080 --> 00:10:12,560 Speaker 1: Well, I don't think if you're living your life rejecting God, 183 00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:14,920 Speaker 1: God is not going to force you into his presence. 184 00:10:15,520 --> 00:10:17,439 Speaker 3: So I'm not going to go into Hell. I'm not 185 00:10:17,480 --> 00:10:19,800 Speaker 3: going to go to heaven. Then no where am I 186 00:10:19,840 --> 00:10:22,200 Speaker 3: going to go? Well? You would? You would go? Tell 187 00:10:22,679 --> 00:10:26,360 Speaker 3: So So if I don't believe in the Bible, Jesus 188 00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:27,839 Speaker 3: and God, then I'm going to go to hell. 189 00:10:28,679 --> 00:10:33,400 Speaker 1: Yes, insofar as if heaven is a place for those 190 00:10:33,559 --> 00:10:36,520 Speaker 1: who have submitted their lives to Jesus who are living 191 00:10:36,520 --> 00:10:39,800 Speaker 1: the identity of what they're created to be, and said, 192 00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:42,920 Speaker 1: your will be done God. Yeah, Hell is a place 193 00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:46,760 Speaker 1: where God says, you rejected me, your will be done. 194 00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:49,240 Speaker 1: I'm going to I'm going to give you what you 195 00:10:49,320 --> 00:10:52,760 Speaker 1: want in that I'm going to remove my grace and 196 00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:56,360 Speaker 1: mercy from you, and you are going to experience truly 197 00:10:56,400 --> 00:11:01,680 Speaker 1: what you desire in being separated from Me and my 198 00:11:01,760 --> 00:11:02,920 Speaker 1: goodness and my grace. 199 00:11:03,480 --> 00:11:07,760 Speaker 2: With an appropriate smile on his face, wes Huff told 200 00:11:07,800 --> 00:11:12,280 Speaker 2: Stephen and really everybody who doesn't believe in Jesus that 201 00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:15,200 Speaker 2: they're going to Hell. Now a lot of people watching 202 00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:17,800 Speaker 2: this instantly are going to be offended, think this is 203 00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:24,080 Speaker 2: exclusivistic and uncaring. The reality is, this is what Jesus said. 204 00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:28,160 Speaker 2: Jesus said this. He made it clear in John three 205 00:11:28,200 --> 00:11:32,160 Speaker 2: point eighteen. He said, anyone who believes is not condemned, 206 00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:36,560 Speaker 2: but he does not believe in him is already condemned 207 00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:39,280 Speaker 2: because he does not believe in the one and only 208 00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:45,040 Speaker 2: son of God. Jesus spoke those words. Now, if Jesus 209 00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:51,959 Speaker 2: is the virgin born, miracle working prophesy fulfilling, sinless son 210 00:11:52,200 --> 00:11:55,920 Speaker 2: of God, then he has the authority to speak these 211 00:11:55,960 --> 00:11:59,360 Speaker 2: words in a way none of us do, whether we 212 00:11:59,679 --> 00:12:03,200 Speaker 2: like it or not. Now I've seen studies. At estimate 213 00:12:03,240 --> 00:12:06,640 Speaker 2: about half of Americans would say that they feel like 214 00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:10,520 Speaker 2: if they live a good life, then they're going to heaven. 215 00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:13,480 Speaker 2: There's something natural about saying, if my good deeds out 216 00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:16,400 Speaker 2: weigh my bad deeds, I go to heaven. I get 217 00:12:16,440 --> 00:12:19,199 Speaker 2: that it suggests that we know we should live a 218 00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:22,720 Speaker 2: certain way and that we should be good. But Jesus said, 219 00:12:22,760 --> 00:12:26,960 Speaker 2: be perfect, as your heavenly father is perfect. The only 220 00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:32,280 Speaker 2: person who's perfect, who ever lived, was and is Jesus Christ. 221 00:12:32,280 --> 00:12:35,560 Speaker 2: That's why John eight forty six Jesus says to the Pharisees, 222 00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:38,280 Speaker 2: which of you can convict me of sin? He is 223 00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:42,360 Speaker 2: the only one who's lived a truly good life. That's 224 00:12:42,400 --> 00:12:46,040 Speaker 2: why Paul writes in Romans three ten none is righteous, no, 225 00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:50,840 Speaker 2: not one, and Mark ten eighteen, Jesus says, no one 226 00:12:50,920 --> 00:12:55,280 Speaker 2: is good but God alone. The way to get to heaven, 227 00:12:55,360 --> 00:12:59,000 Speaker 2: according to Jesus, is to put our faith and trust 228 00:12:59,280 --> 00:13:04,760 Speaker 2: in him, repent of our sins and trust that Jesus's 229 00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:08,439 Speaker 2: good life, so to speak, which we're able to access 230 00:13:08,559 --> 00:13:12,439 Speaker 2: through God's grace and our faith is what enables us 231 00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:18,600 Speaker 2: to be righteous before God. Wes good job, graciously and 232 00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:24,079 Speaker 2: boldly speak in truth, because that's what Jesus said as well. 233 00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:27,839 Speaker 3: Praying doesn't seem to be impacting outcome. M what is 234 00:13:27,880 --> 00:13:30,600 Speaker 3: your perspective? Does praying work? If my child is sick 235 00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:32,880 Speaker 3: and I start praying, is that going to help? 236 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:36,200 Speaker 1: I think prayer in Christianity is a give and take 237 00:13:36,280 --> 00:13:40,960 Speaker 1: in that it's a relational thing. It's God desiring to 238 00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:43,680 Speaker 1: have communication with you. 239 00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:46,880 Speaker 2: It's interesting how Stephen worded this. He said, prayer doesn't 240 00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:51,240 Speaker 2: seem to be working. Our sense whether prayer is working 241 00:13:51,720 --> 00:13:56,200 Speaker 2: or not is going to be based on our expectations. Now, 242 00:13:56,520 --> 00:13:59,200 Speaker 2: what is the purpose of prayer biblically speaking, is to 243 00:13:59,280 --> 00:14:03,080 Speaker 2: relate to God? God, as Wes said, is to commune 244 00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:05,520 Speaker 2: with God, to express our heart to God, to cry 245 00:14:05,559 --> 00:14:09,480 Speaker 2: out to God, but also to request things. That is 246 00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:13,200 Speaker 2: one prayer and one means of prayer that we can do. 247 00:14:13,760 --> 00:14:14,040 Speaker 3: Now. 248 00:14:14,080 --> 00:14:18,760 Speaker 2: I've had unanswered prayers, but I've also had some answered prayers. 249 00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:21,560 Speaker 2: Part of what I have to realize we are finite 250 00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:26,479 Speaker 2: beings praying to an infinite God. We have limited knowledge. 251 00:14:26,760 --> 00:14:30,680 Speaker 2: God has all knowledge. So what seems to us like 252 00:14:30,760 --> 00:14:33,920 Speaker 2: God is not answering our prayers. Has to be taken 253 00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:36,800 Speaker 2: to consideration that God knows the past and the president 254 00:14:36,880 --> 00:14:40,560 Speaker 2: and the future, and that sometimes answering our prayers is 255 00:14:40,640 --> 00:14:44,440 Speaker 2: actually not best for us. Now, I do think there 256 00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:49,200 Speaker 2: are some studies that indicate that God in fact answers prayers. 257 00:14:49,520 --> 00:14:52,520 Speaker 2: I invite Stephen or anybody watching this to check out 258 00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:56,920 Speaker 2: the book from twenty twelve. It's Harvard University Press, doctor 259 00:14:57,200 --> 00:15:01,200 Speaker 2: Candy Gunther Brown. It's called Testing Prayer. I had a 260 00:15:01,280 --> 00:15:03,800 Speaker 2: chance to interview her, but you can go to her book, 261 00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:07,160 Speaker 2: and she makes a case that there's some good evidence 262 00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:10,520 Speaker 2: for answering prayer. I'll let you research that and look 263 00:15:10,560 --> 00:15:13,360 Speaker 2: into it. But I think prayer does work. We just 264 00:15:13,400 --> 00:15:16,160 Speaker 2: have to keep in mind biblically, what is the purpose 265 00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:19,200 Speaker 2: of prayer and what in fact should we expect. 266 00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:22,880 Speaker 3: Two more So, simulation theory posits that actually, this is 267 00:15:22,920 --> 00:15:26,200 Speaker 3: what our lives are. There was a civilization at some 268 00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:28,560 Speaker 3: point in the cosmic universe that got to that point 269 00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:32,440 Speaker 3: of technological sophistication. They ran a bunch of different simulations 270 00:15:32,760 --> 00:15:35,400 Speaker 3: on a computer or whatever their technology was, and this 271 00:15:35,560 --> 00:15:38,360 Speaker 3: is one such world we're living in right now, and 272 00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:40,320 Speaker 3: that is actually our God. It could be some four 273 00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:44,560 Speaker 3: year old alien that had a laptop right ten gazillion 274 00:15:44,640 --> 00:15:46,880 Speaker 3: years ago, and the Big Bang was the day that 275 00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:48,280 Speaker 3: he started the simulation. 276 00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:51,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, almost like it was intelligently designed, right. 277 00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:52,320 Speaker 3: Yeah. 278 00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:55,720 Speaker 2: I love this answer by Wes. It's short, it's to 279 00:15:55,760 --> 00:15:59,560 Speaker 2: the point, and he says, if this simulation theory were true, 280 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:05,160 Speaker 2: this doesn't point towards time and chance and material forces 281 00:16:05,280 --> 00:16:09,400 Speaker 2: explaining our existence. It points towards there being a mind 282 00:16:09,480 --> 00:16:14,240 Speaker 2: and design and intention behind the universe. So he's right 283 00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:18,600 Speaker 2: about that. Now, is it logically possible? Is it possible 284 00:16:18,920 --> 00:16:22,080 Speaker 2: that this simulation theory is true? Sure? I'm not sure 285 00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:25,240 Speaker 2: how we should or even how we could rule that out. 286 00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:29,000 Speaker 2: The question is not is it possible, the question is 287 00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:33,520 Speaker 2: it probable. I don't see any positive evidence that we're 288 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:37,400 Speaker 2: actually living in a simulation. Now, this theory could explain 289 00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:40,280 Speaker 2: some of the evidence we see for intelligent design and nature, 290 00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:43,920 Speaker 2: But why should I believe that's the best explanation, especially 291 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:47,520 Speaker 2: when we have this person Jesus who claims to be 292 00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:51,000 Speaker 2: the simulation maker so to speak. In other words, he 293 00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:55,480 Speaker 2: claims to be God. John one pint one, John one eighteen, 294 00:16:55,600 --> 00:16:59,280 Speaker 2: John eight fifty eight, John twenty twenty eight, Mark chapter fourteen, 295 00:16:59,640 --> 00:17:02,600 Speaker 2: tied to two thirteen. Over and over again, Jesus claims 296 00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:05,359 Speaker 2: to be God, but we have evidence. He walked on water, 297 00:17:05,760 --> 00:17:09,120 Speaker 2: he healed the blind, he did miracles, and rose from 298 00:17:09,119 --> 00:17:12,720 Speaker 2: the grave. So if you have two theories, the simulation 299 00:17:12,840 --> 00:17:17,560 Speaker 2: theory and Christianity, that can both in principle explain the 300 00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:23,000 Speaker 2: intelligent design. One has no further evidence. The other one, Christianity, 301 00:17:23,040 --> 00:17:26,360 Speaker 2: has further evidence. Why would we go with the possibility 302 00:17:26,359 --> 00:17:29,360 Speaker 2: of the simulation theory. I'm a Christian because I think 303 00:17:29,359 --> 00:17:33,040 Speaker 2: it not only resonates most deeply with human heart, but 304 00:17:33,119 --> 00:17:36,040 Speaker 2: I think the evidence actually points towards it being true 305 00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:40,560 Speaker 2: and Jesus actually being God. Let's look at the last one. 306 00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:42,359 Speaker 3: Maybe love is God. 307 00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:45,439 Speaker 1: I mean that's from the Bible. God is love. The 308 00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:48,639 Speaker 1: thing grammatically that's interesting about that when John writes that 309 00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:52,040 Speaker 1: in his epistle is grammatically in the Greek, it's phrased 310 00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:54,639 Speaker 1: in a way that God is love, but love is 311 00:17:54,640 --> 00:18:00,160 Speaker 1: not God. Right, so you can't deify the the What 312 00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:00,919 Speaker 1: love is? 313 00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:06,560 Speaker 2: Super thoughtful response by Wes Stephen says, maybe love is God, 314 00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:10,000 Speaker 2: and what Wes does is clarify that when first John 315 00:18:10,119 --> 00:18:13,879 Speaker 2: four eight says that God is love, this is not 316 00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:17,160 Speaker 2: an identity statement. Now do what I mean by this. 317 00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:20,080 Speaker 2: If I said Sean is the husband of Stephanie, that's 318 00:18:20,119 --> 00:18:23,600 Speaker 2: an identity statement because Stephanie is the husband of Sean. 319 00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:28,919 Speaker 2: A equals a same things different terms. But if I 320 00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:33,360 Speaker 2: said Sean is human or Sean is male, that's essentially 321 00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:36,959 Speaker 2: true about me. But you wouldn't flip it and say, well, 322 00:18:37,040 --> 00:18:41,240 Speaker 2: human is Sean or male is Sean. That's in a sense, 323 00:18:41,359 --> 00:18:43,880 Speaker 2: what is going on in the Bible. Again, First John 324 00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:46,680 Speaker 2: four eight. When it says God is love, we can't 325 00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:49,400 Speaker 2: flip it around and say love is God. But when 326 00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:53,240 Speaker 2: it says God is love, there's something essential about God's 327 00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:58,000 Speaker 2: character that is love. Love is not just something God does. 328 00:18:58,800 --> 00:19:03,800 Speaker 2: Love is what God is. It's who God is. And 329 00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:07,159 Speaker 2: this is only because the Christian view of God is 330 00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:11,119 Speaker 2: a trinity, that there is one God who exists in 331 00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:14,600 Speaker 2: three persons. You see, to be love, there has to 332 00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:18,359 Speaker 2: be a lover and a beloved. There has to be 333 00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:22,480 Speaker 2: a distinction of persons. And this is why I think 334 00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:27,080 Speaker 2: the deepest cry of the human heart, which Stephen expresses here, 335 00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:31,520 Speaker 2: is for love. That the universe has love, that I 336 00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:34,879 Speaker 2: am loved, that I can love other people. We all 337 00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:38,159 Speaker 2: know when we stop. The yearning of our heart is 338 00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:41,719 Speaker 2: to know and be known, to love and be loved. 339 00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:46,680 Speaker 2: And friends, it's only in Christianity that God is love 340 00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:50,359 Speaker 2: and He's made us in his image, which means we 341 00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:55,720 Speaker 2: are made for relationship. Hence we only find our true calling, 342 00:19:55,880 --> 00:19:58,880 Speaker 2: we only find our purpose, and we can only really 343 00:19:59,320 --> 00:20:02,600 Speaker 2: live the good life when we're in relationship with God 344 00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:07,960 Speaker 2: and we're in relationship with others. Wes again, well done, friends, 345 00:20:08,119 --> 00:20:10,440 Speaker 2: Christian or not. I would invite you to take that 346 00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:13,800 Speaker 2: video of a dires ceo, say to someone who's not 347 00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:16,400 Speaker 2: a believer and say, hey, watch this, let's get coffee 348 00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:20,399 Speaker 2: and let's talk about it. Just get the conversation going 349 00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:27,000 Speaker 2: and model your conversation after Wes kind, thoughtful, bold, great 350 00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:30,520 Speaker 2: example in my view of how to engage people relationally 351 00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:33,439 Speaker 2: and thoughtfully. Let me know what you think of this 352 00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:36,040 Speaker 2: video is is helpful now? And then I do reaction 353 00:20:36,280 --> 00:20:41,040 Speaker 2: type videos. Do you want more, longer, shorter? Let me know, 354 00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:43,520 Speaker 2: And in the future if you see other things you 355 00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:45,560 Speaker 2: want me to respond to. Many of you send me 356 00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:48,120 Speaker 2: notes all over the place. Through my website to put 357 00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:51,160 Speaker 2: on my radar let me know, and as always, would 358 00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:54,000 Speaker 2: love to have you study with me at Tabschool Theology 359 00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:56,400 Speaker 2: to learn how to know what you believe and how 360 00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:59,240 Speaker 2: to live it out with kindness. We'll see you next time. 361 00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:02,080 Speaker 2: Hey friends, if you enjoyed this show, please hit that 362 00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:05,119 Speaker 2: fall button on your podcast app. Most of you tuning 363 00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:07,520 Speaker 2: in haven't done this yet and it makes a huge 364 00:21:07,560 --> 00:21:10,320 Speaker 2: difference in helping us reach and equip more people and 365 00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:14,720 Speaker 2: build community. And please consider leaving a podcast review. Every 366 00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:18,040 Speaker 2: review helps. Thanks for listening to the Sean McDowell Show, 367 00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:22,000 Speaker 2: brought to you by Talbot School of Theology at Biola University, 368 00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:25,400 Speaker 2: where we have on campus and online programs and apologetic 369 00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:28,720 Speaker 2: spiritual formation, marriage and family, Bible and so much more. 370 00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:31,760 Speaker 2: We would love to train you to more effectively live, teach, 371 00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:34,680 Speaker 2: and defend the Christian faith today and we will see 372 00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:41,800 Speaker 2: you when the next episode drops.