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Speaker 1: Welcome to Timeless Wisdom with Dennis Prager. Here thousands of

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Speaker 1: hours of Dennis's lectures courses in classic radio programs had

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Speaker 1: to purchase Dennis Prager's Rational Bibles. Go to Dennis Prager

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Speaker 1: dot com.

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Speaker 2: To be or not to be? That is the question?

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Speaker 2: Where was God?

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Speaker 3: Isn't God supposed to be good to love us?

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Speaker 2: Does God want us to supper?

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Speaker 4: Ten years?

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Speaker 3: You're not Dennis yet?

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Speaker 5: Why did you go come here?

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Speaker 2: Who are you?

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Speaker 1: Bruce?

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Speaker 2: I'm God Bingo Yazi?

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Speaker 6: Is that your final answer?

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Speaker 7: Our service has God bing ding ding ding ding ding

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Speaker 7: ding ding.

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Speaker 2: Well, it was nice to meet you guy. Thank you

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Speaker 2: for the Grand Canyon and good luck with the apocalypse.

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Speaker 2: Hi everybody, and welcome to the Ultimate Issues Hour on

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Speaker 2: the Dennis Prager Show. I'm Dennis Prager, and indeed this

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Speaker 2: third hour of the three hour show on Tuesday is

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Speaker 2: devoted to some great issue of life. I've explained to

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Speaker 2: you what I call the American Trinity, the explanation of

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Speaker 2: American Values, which inaugurates also the Prager University video on

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Speaker 2: the Internet with over one hundred thousand hits already, and

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Speaker 2: I want many, many more, so that more and more

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Speaker 2: Americans understand what I should have realized so long ago,

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Speaker 2: but it took me till about ten years ago to

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Speaker 2: realize it was in my pocket. Every coin has the

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Speaker 2: trinity of America, not the theological trinity of Christianity, of course,

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Speaker 2: but the values trinity of America and God we trust

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Speaker 2: epluribus unim and liberty. I want to talk to you

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Speaker 2: about him, God we trust, and explain what we're talking

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Speaker 2: about here. And it's many things, but most of all,

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Speaker 2: it is something that if you go to a regular

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Speaker 2: high school that is a regular secular public school or

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Speaker 2: secular private school, and then college, it's incredible, but you

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Speaker 2: will never have to confront this simple fact. If God

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Speaker 2: is not the source of values, then there are no

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Speaker 2: objective values. And the founders of America understood that it

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Speaker 2: is God who is the author of our inalienable rights,

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Speaker 2: not man. Man cannot be the author of inalienable rights.

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Speaker 2: What man giveth God, man can take it? Man giveth,

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Speaker 2: man taketh anyway? Why is the man who give it,

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Speaker 2: who gives it any higher than me? Where do values

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Speaker 2: or rights or anything come from? If there is no God.

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Speaker 2: I'm posing this question to those of you who are secular.

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Speaker 2: I'm not saying that you can't be a nice person

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Speaker 2: if you are secular or atheistic. Of course you can.

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Speaker 2: I'm just that's not my point, Nor is my point

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Speaker 2: that everybody who believes in God is nice. I would

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Speaker 2: have to be an idiot to make such a point.

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Speaker 2: But the notion, the obvious notion that God is the

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Speaker 2: source of values or values have no eternal or objective meaning.

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Speaker 2: That notion is obvious. This is what was understood by

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Speaker 2: the great people who founded this country. That is why

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Speaker 2: God is on the liberty bell. God is the author

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Speaker 2: of liberty. Who else is the author of liberty? You

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Speaker 2: tell me mitochondria, molecules, DNA, our our evolutionary ancestors. Who

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Speaker 2: is the author of liberty, or of goodness, or of

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Speaker 2: right and wrong, or of standards of good and evil?

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Speaker 2: Who could? You don't get them from cells? You don't

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Speaker 2: get them from DNA. Science provides zero guidance morally zero.

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Speaker 2: So why people who tell me that they believe in science, Wow,

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Speaker 2: that's frightening. Of course I believe in science as far

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Speaker 2: as science is concerned, but not as far as anything

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Speaker 2: else is concerned. Science doesn't tell me what is right

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Speaker 2: or wrong. Science tells me how to do whatever I

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Speaker 2: want to do. It's the opposite. It's the opposite of

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Speaker 2: right and wrong. It's do it if you can. So

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Speaker 2: this country has been founded on a God based morality.

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Speaker 2: And if you don't agree that God is necessary for rights,

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Speaker 2: for liberty, for morality, you give me a call, because

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Speaker 2: that's what's taught. Who needs God, reason, human experience, the

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Speaker 2: human heart, human goodness, or whatever it is that will

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Speaker 2: be the source, Well, you tell me what the sources.

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Speaker 2: If it's not going to be God, you tell me reason,

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Speaker 2: Tell me what where else you get thou shalt not

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Speaker 2: murder from? And what would make it? What would make

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Speaker 2: it compelling? One eighth prayer seven seven six one eight

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Speaker 2: p R A G E R seven seven six eight

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Speaker 2: seven seven two four three triple seven six eight seven

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Speaker 2: seven two four three seven seven seven six. I remember

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Speaker 2: so vividly when I taught college, and then when I

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Speaker 2: taught couch kids at at a summer institute that I directed.

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Speaker 2: When I came out to California many years ago, kids

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Speaker 2: from the most elite colleges who had never in their

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Speaker 2: lives confronted the simple question, without God, how do you

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Speaker 2: how do you know that there's a right and a wrong? Never?

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Speaker 2: They I spoke to philosophy majors who never, who never

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Speaker 2: involved themselves in this question. No God, no right and wrong.

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Speaker 2: You have only opinions about it. And it's quite remarkable

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Speaker 2: that this is not confronted. That's why I have contempt

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Speaker 2: for most most of the liberal arts education. It's not

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Speaker 2: only is it agenda driven, it's not even it's not

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Speaker 2: even philosophically serious. You have that's the ultimate ultimate question

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Speaker 2: on the is the ultimate Issues hour? This is the

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Speaker 2: ultimate of ultimate issues? Where do where do meaning and

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Speaker 2: where do morality come from? If there is no God?

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Speaker 2: And the answer is they come from nowhere. And the

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Speaker 2: founders knew this. That's why this notion we get our

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Speaker 2: values from the Constitution, as opposed to from from what

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Speaker 2: we had originally considered a divine text, the Bible is

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Speaker 2: such nonsense. Where does the Constitution was written by men?

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Speaker 2: So we get ours? So therefore, what Madison is the

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Speaker 2: author of my values? I don't get it. Go to

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Speaker 2: your calls Cleveland, Ohio, Mike kell O, Mike, thank you

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Speaker 2: for calling.

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Speaker 4: Hey, Dennis, what you doing? A big fan of the show.

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Speaker 4: Thank you for that I wanted to say. First of all,

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Speaker 4: want to prepos is the saying that I am a Christian,

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Speaker 4: So this might come as a little bit odd for me.

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Speaker 4: But it's a question I'm kind of thrown back and forth,

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Speaker 4: and I don't know. I want to get your opinion.

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Speaker 4: If we say that goodness from God, how would we

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Speaker 4: react if God commanded rape or commanded murder? It would

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Speaker 4: still seem that goodness would almost dwell outside the realm

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Speaker 4: of God. However, we wouldn't have any like prescriptive obligation

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Speaker 4: toward it. I think our obligations come from God, but

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Speaker 4: it almost seems that goodness exists abstractly.

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Speaker 2: Right, You are a very intelligent young man. You know

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Speaker 2: what I don't throw. I don't throw these accolades out

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Speaker 2: the regularly. That that's you obviously think this through, So

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Speaker 2: let me think it through with you. First of all,

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Speaker 2: the question itself, what if God commanded something evil? Would

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Speaker 2: it then be good? Okay? The question itself is analogous.

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Speaker 2: It's not identical too, but analogous to one I remember

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Speaker 2: in elementary school where a kid would come over to

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Speaker 2: me and say, so a prager, you think God that

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Speaker 2: can do anything? And I would say yes, and then

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Speaker 2: this guy would say, well, can God make a rock

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Speaker 2: so heavy that he himself can't lift it? And then

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Speaker 2: walk off, cracking up that he had trapped me. It's

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Speaker 2: it's a self contradictory question. God cannot God cannot command

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Speaker 2: what is evil. But having said that, that's not the

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Speaker 2: end of my answer. Yes, if God is the author,

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Speaker 2: things are good because God said so, not because Dennis

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Speaker 2: thinks so. That is correct. However, However, having said that,

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Speaker 2: this is the third point. God, it is believed by

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Speaker 2: the by the tradition, and traditions that introduced this God

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Speaker 2: into the world did give all humans a conscience, right,

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Speaker 2: so therefore the conscience is divinely inspired, divinely made. Therefore

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Speaker 2: we have to conscience. Therefore, number four, if.

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Speaker 4: Something is becoming quite the syllogistical.

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Speaker 2: Argument, well it's become I I.

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Speaker 4: Disagree with you. I was just kind of making a

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Speaker 4: joke because I'm saying therefore therefore therefore, well, well right.

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Speaker 2: All right, But these these therefores are critical. Therefore, Therefore

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Speaker 2: one would have to ask if something that would that

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Speaker 2: was just prima facie evil, we were being ordered, then

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Speaker 2: one would have to say it wasn't God who did it?

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Speaker 2: One one was mishearing, but we have. That's why I'm

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Speaker 2: not a big believer in God telling us what to

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Speaker 2: do beyond what has already been told in something like

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Speaker 2: the Ten Commandments. That's why I'm very wary of new commands,

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Speaker 2: as it were, back in a moment, great call. This

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Speaker 2: is Dennis Praeger The Ultimate Issues Hour.

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Speaker 1: This episode of Timeless Wisdom. We'll continue right after this.

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Speaker 1: Now back to more of Dennis Prager's Timeless Wisdom on.

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Speaker 2: You're listening to the Dennis Prager Show. This is the

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Speaker 2: Ultimate Issues Hour, and there is no greater ultimate issue

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Speaker 2: than this one. There may be some tide, but this

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Speaker 2: is as big as it gets.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 2: I talk about the American Trinity. God we trust e

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Speaker 2: pluribus unim in liberty, and I haven't explained the in

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Speaker 2: God we trust in detail, and I'll work on the

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Speaker 2: others another time. But the primary aspect of in God

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Speaker 2: we trust is that there is a God who is

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Speaker 2: the source of our values. No God, no good and evil.

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Speaker 2: Now let me explain what that means. It doesn't mean

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Speaker 2: that there aren't people who can do good or people

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Speaker 2: who can do evil. Of course there are. It means

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Speaker 2: that there's no objective standard. It means that they don't

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Speaker 2: really exist. They are opinions. You prefer kindness and he

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Speaker 2: prefers cruelty, that's all. But if there's no God, who

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Speaker 2: is to measure? Please, folks, who's to measure? There's no

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Speaker 2: God who measures dna? Where do you get values from?

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Speaker 2: If not from God? Your heart? Your conscience?

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Speaker 8: Well?

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Speaker 2: What is the conscience though? If everything, if there is

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Speaker 2: no God, there's what doesn't mean conscience? Show me the

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Speaker 2: DNA that makes up a conscience. What's a conscience molecule?

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Speaker 2: Have you ever isolated one? Is there? Conscience fluid? It's

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Speaker 2: astonishing to me the lack of serious thought given to this.

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Speaker 2: And in high schools and in college campuses. What do

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Speaker 2: you do for good and evil? If they're if you

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Speaker 2: don't believe in God, that doesn't mean that atheists are

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Speaker 2: all bad. I said this before, I've said it every time.

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Speaker 2: It's and I'm going to take another call on it

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Speaker 2: right now. They are atheists who can do good, they're

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Speaker 2: religious people who can do bad. How people act is

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Speaker 2: not my question. I'm not discussing how people act. I'm

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Speaker 2: discussing whether or not good and evil objectively exist? If

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Speaker 2: there is no God, where what is the source of

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Speaker 2: right and wrong? Okay, let me take more of your calls.

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Speaker 2: What are your California and Lewis? Hello, Lewis, Dennis Praeger.

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Speaker 5: Hi, I'm one of your ninety percent agreers and this

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Speaker 5: is in that ten percent category, which, okay, that falls

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Speaker 5: into the disagreement area. I think you're towing a really

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Speaker 5: fine line because it at times it almost sounds like

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Speaker 5: you're saying, if you're an atheist or an agnostic, that

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Speaker 5: you can't objectively know what's right and what's wrong, good

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Speaker 5: and bad, what's what's evil? What's not to know?

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Speaker 2: Well, you can wait wait wait, wait, wait, sure you

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Speaker 2: can know if you're an atheist subjectively, and I also

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Speaker 2: believe that wait wait wait wait, let me wait wait.

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Speaker 2: Let me just say too that an atheist has been

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Speaker 2: given a conscience by God in my belief, just as

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Speaker 2: much as as as a believer has. So you have

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Speaker 2: there is a compass. There's a compass been given to you.

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Speaker 2: But if it's not been given by God, Lewis, why

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Speaker 2: do you believe the consciences? You know? You can't find

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Speaker 2: it in an x ray.

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Speaker 5: Wait, wait this way, Dennis, I know that one plus

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Speaker 5: one is two, not because someone told me, but because

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Speaker 5: I can see that it's so. It's an axiom. An

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Speaker 5: axiom is something that's self evident.

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Speaker 2: What is the and what is it? Work? Wait?

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Speaker 5: Wild is wrong? Because I can see that it's so?

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Speaker 5: Does that necessarily mean that I?

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Speaker 2: Okay, then explain to me. Explain to me, then, Lewis,

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Speaker 2: If that's the case, why it is that so many

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Speaker 2: more people murder children than say, one and one is three.

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Speaker 2: Nobody says one and one is not two. No one.

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Speaker 2: Hitler agreed, it was Mussolini agreed, it was Stalin agreed,

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Speaker 2: it was Saddam agreed it was there's a universal agreement

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Speaker 2: on one plus one is two. There is massive disagreement

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Speaker 2: on right and wrong.

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Speaker 5: Okay, you're talking about actions again.

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Speaker 2: No, No, on disagreement on what is right and wrong,

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Speaker 2: not even on what they did.

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Speaker 5: No, we don't even know for sure that some of

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Speaker 5: those people that committed those evil acts didn't know that

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Speaker 5: they were doing something evil and did it anyway.

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Speaker 2: All right, here's the bad news, which Lewis believe.

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Speaker 5: In God on what's rights wrong?

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Speaker 2: Sometimes, Hey, well, the bad news is that vast amounts

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Speaker 2: of evil have been committed by people who thought they

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Speaker 2: were doing good.

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Speaker 5: That's true, I agree with that.

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Speaker 2: Okay, Therefore you can't say it's an axiom, because nobody

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Speaker 2: on earth denies one and one as two unless he's

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Speaker 2: mentally defective. But vast numbers of people differ on what

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Speaker 2: is right. Do you think suicide bombers think in their

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Speaker 2: heart they're doing wrong?

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Speaker 5: Uh? You know, I can't say that. I would say

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Speaker 5: many of them think that they're doing the right thing.

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Speaker 5: I can't say that there aren't some that.

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Speaker 2: Oh all right, well, all right, we can Okay. Then

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Speaker 2: it's obviously not an axiom. Lewis. If it's an axiom,

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Speaker 2: people accept it. People that's so and so, so it's

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Speaker 2: that's that's the point. It's it's not axiomatic. Goodness is

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Speaker 2: not axiomatic at all. The people who cheat in in

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Speaker 2: daily life, the people who cheat in daily life don't

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Speaker 2: think it's an axiom that what they're doing is wrong.

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Speaker 2: The people who cheat in daily life or cheat in business,

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Speaker 2: forget forget killing children, how about cheating cheating in business?

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Speaker 2: They will say, well, you know what, everybody, everybody does it.

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Speaker 2: It's no big deal. I mean, people have rationalizations all

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Speaker 2: the time. That's another reason we need God, by the way,

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Speaker 2: not just because that makes it morality real, but because

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Speaker 2: it makes morality accountable. You're not accountable to anybody if

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Speaker 2: there's no God except the government or the police force.

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Speaker 2: But what if they're not going to catch you, like

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Speaker 2: in the Congo today, you can rape and murder and

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Speaker 2: nobody will catch you. It's been done to millions of

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Speaker 2: people in the Congo in the last decade. Alrighty, let's

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Speaker 2: go to Let's go to some more of your challenges

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Speaker 2: and calls. Esther in Los Angeles, and thank you, Lewis.

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Speaker 2: Appreciate your call a lot. Hello Esther.

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Speaker 3: Dennis Prager, Hi, Dennis, thank you so much for taking

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Speaker 3: my call. I had a question. I believe in God,

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Speaker 3: but I'm very happy that this country is uh run

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Speaker 3: with the the the belief in the Judeo Christian God.

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Speaker 3: But my question is who's to say, Who's God do

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Speaker 3: we follow? Because some people could follow God, but it

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Speaker 3: might not be the same God that I believe in. It.

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Speaker 3: I mean, in a sense, that's the subjective standard, because

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Speaker 3: you know, there's people who like a Muslim God or

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Speaker 3: I mean, I know that's the same God, but I

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Speaker 3: mean there's different ways that we interpret it. So who's

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Speaker 3: to say that we're following the right God?

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Speaker 2: That's right, You're right. I didn't say that we know

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Speaker 2: that we're following the right God. I never made that claim, esther.

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Speaker 2: I only said that if God is not the source

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Speaker 2: of do not murder. Murder is not wrong, It's just

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Speaker 2: it's just a subjective opinion if you think it's wrong, right,

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Speaker 2: I admit, I listen, that's my whole point. In fact,

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Speaker 2: I make a leap of faith that the God of

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Speaker 2: the Ten Commandments is real and gave the ten Commandments.

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Speaker 2: But I admit it's a leap of faith. But if

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Speaker 2: you believe that murder is wrong without God, that is

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Speaker 2: your leap of faith. Everybody makes a leap of faith.

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Speaker 2: The atheist makes a leap of faith to right and wrong.

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Speaker 2: I make a belief of a leap of faith to

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Speaker 2: the author of what is right and wrong? Is that clear?

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Speaker 3: Thank you?

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Speaker 2: Okay? Great, thank you very I fully acknowledge that all

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Speaker 2: I'm saying is if there is if this God of

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Speaker 2: the Ten Commandments didn't give them, then then then those

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Speaker 2: things are merely human made suggestions. But I'm not. I

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Speaker 2: can't prove to you that there is a God. I

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Speaker 2: can only prove to you logically that if there is

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Speaker 2: no God, murder is a matter of opinion, not objective wrongness.

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Speaker 2: Back in a moment, I'm Dennis Prager.

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Speaker 1: This episode of Timeless Wisdom.

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Speaker 2: We'll continue right after this.

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Speaker 1: Now back to more of Dennis Prager's Timeless Wisdom.

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Speaker 2: Hi, everybody, Dennis Prager here, the Ultimate Issues hour. We

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Speaker 2: have three mottos in our American value system and God

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Speaker 2: we trust e pluribus unim and liberty. I'm talking about

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Speaker 2: in God we trust and that God is the source

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Speaker 2: of values. By the way, if you haven't seen my

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Speaker 2: video Prager University video on YouTube, please look at it

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Speaker 2: and please show it to as many people as possible.

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Speaker 2: The one hope we have, I think, I'm certain, I

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Speaker 2: don't think for America is to reacquaint ourselves with our

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Speaker 2: value system. And in five minutes I think that we

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Speaker 2: have done this on this video. It's Peger University at

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Speaker 2: YouTube or priggeru dot com, not Pregger University yet dot com.

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Speaker 2: We couldn't get that, but Prager you dot com all right?

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Speaker 2: Or and Likewise, I remind you that an hour like

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Speaker 2: this where so few graduates of high schools and colleges

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Speaker 2: and graduate schools have ever had to confront this question

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Speaker 2: of where do values come from? If there's no God.

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Speaker 2: It's a sort of hour you might want to play

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Speaker 2: over for others. That's why we have Pragertopia, where you

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Speaker 2: subscribe to the shows and you get them seven dollars

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Speaker 2: a month. That's it Pragertopia. It's at pragerradio dot com,

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Speaker 2: and at then it's Prager dot com. And I just

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Speaker 2: made the point. I don't know if the person was

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Speaker 2: an atheist or not, but doesn't matter. You know, the

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Speaker 2: atheist who believes that there is good and bad has

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Speaker 2: made a leap of faith that there is good and bad.

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Speaker 2: That it's not just a matter of personal opinion. Anybody,

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Speaker 2: anybody who believes that there is really a good and

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Speaker 2: an evil in the world is making a leap of faith.

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Speaker 2: The believer makes a leap of faith that there is

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Speaker 2: a God who gave the standards of right and wrong.

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Speaker 2: But whoever believes any atheist who believes there really is

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Speaker 2: right and wrong. You know that just taking a random

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Speaker 2: child and killing him is wrong, is also making a

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Speaker 2: leap of faith unless the person is prepared to say, well,

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Speaker 2: I think it's wrong, but it's not really wrong, which

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Speaker 2: is what a lot of people do say now. But

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Speaker 2: if you believe it really exists, you have made a

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Speaker 2: leap of faith. All right, let me take some more.

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Speaker 2: Let's take some more calls and challenges. Robert in AZEUSA,

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Speaker 2: California High Dennis Prager, Hello, I'm.

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Speaker 7: A longtime fan of your show. The last time I

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Speaker 7: talked to you was probably nineteen ninety two or something

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Speaker 7: like that.

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Speaker 2: That's a long time. Well, you know what I like

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Speaker 2: hearing from you every seventeen years.

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Speaker 7: Okay, great, I must say I really like you. I

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Speaker 7: really really like you so because it's because it's so

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Speaker 7: philosophically oriented and talks about questions like this. But my

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Speaker 7: question to you is kind of maybe tangential to the

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Speaker 7: one you asked a little bit, But the question is

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Speaker 7: if it could be proved, if you imagine that it

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Speaker 7: could be proved that we can have a system of

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Speaker 7: a rational system of morality, would you switch to that

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Speaker 7: system or would you keep the God centered one?

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Speaker 2: Well, it's well, I would always have the God centered one,

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Speaker 2: because even if there were a reason based one, I

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Speaker 2: would still have no one to whom I'm accountable. God

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Speaker 2: is necessary not just for the existence of objective right

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Speaker 2: and wrong. God is necessary because otherwise we're not accountable

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Speaker 2: for our actions.

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Speaker 7: Okay, well that then that accountability, uh remains the I

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Speaker 7: guess the quintessential faith proposition.

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Speaker 2: Well, they're all faith propositions because well, but you don't

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Speaker 2: believe that. But I don't know why. What does let

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Speaker 2: me ask you a question, Robert, Since you derive all

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Speaker 2: of your morality from reason, what is your position on

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Speaker 2: abortion when the mother's health is not endangered?

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Speaker 7: Well, that's one of the tougher questions.

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Speaker 2: Tough reason. So reason doesn't give you. At least you're

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Speaker 2: honest enough to say. Reason does not give you an answer.

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Speaker 7: It gives me part part of it. It gives me

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Speaker 7: somewhat of an answer. I don't think it. I don't

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Speaker 7: think it's When.

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Speaker 2: Does reason suggest life begins? Human life begins?

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Speaker 7: Well, I think reason suggests that life begins somewhere. Well,

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Speaker 7: I wouldn't. I wouldn't. I would say human life. Okay, yes,

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Speaker 7: obviously I would say strictly speaking, that human life probably

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Speaker 7: philosophically begins at birth. The reason I say that.

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Speaker 2: Okay, hold on, we'll be back in a moment.

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Speaker 1: This episode of Timeless Wisdom will continue right after this.

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Speaker 1: Now back to more of Dennis Prager's Timeless Wisdom.

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Speaker 2: Dennis Prager here, this is the Ultimate Issues hour. One

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Speaker 2: of the great issues of life, which is astonishingly non

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Speaker 2: addressed in high school, college and graduate school. Which is

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Speaker 2: unbelievable when you think about it. But when you think

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Speaker 2: further about it, and you know the state of education today,

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Speaker 2: it's unfortunately not unbelievable. Is how do you have objective

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Speaker 2: values if there is no God. I can't prove to

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Speaker 2: you there's a God, but I can logically prove to

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Speaker 2: you the obvious. If there is no God as the

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Speaker 2: source of right and wrong, right and wrong don't exist.

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Speaker 2: They are simply matters of personal or societal opinion. That's

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Speaker 2: all they are. I like gray, you like yellow.

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Speaker 1: I like.

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Speaker 2: Keeping people alive, you like killing people. I mean, it's

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Speaker 2: a like dislike issue. Unless there is a God. And

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Speaker 2: if you believe there really is a good and evil

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Speaker 2: and there isn't a God, then you have made a

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Speaker 2: leap of faith. You have made some leap of faith.

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Speaker 2: There really is good and evil even though there is

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Speaker 2: no God. So you are an atheist as far as

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Speaker 2: God is concerned, But you are not a non believer.

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Speaker 2: You decided simply to believe in something that exists even

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Speaker 2: though you can't prove it. You can't prove good and

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Speaker 2: evil exists any more than I could prove God exists.

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Speaker 2: All right, let's take some more challenges. Golden Valley, Minnesota.

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Speaker 2: Dennis Pragerhi, thank you, Dennis.

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Speaker 9: It's an honor to speak to you. I I gotta

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Speaker 9: be honest with you, Dennis. Uh. Some of what you're

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Speaker 9: saying really truly frightens me, because don't you believe even

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Speaker 9: for a second that talking the way that you do,

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Speaker 9: by insisting that without belief in God, that you don't

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Speaker 9: believe in values, or that you can't have values, don't

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Speaker 9: you think that gives I mean, the similarities between the

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Speaker 9: rhetoric of today and what happened in Weimar Germany before

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Speaker 9: the collapse into Nazism is that the parallels are astonishing.

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Speaker 9: I mean, the Nazi Germany was a result of the

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Speaker 9: fascist left and the religious right, and I mean it's

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Speaker 9: it's frightening to say that somebody it's a leap of

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Speaker 9: faith to believe in good or evil, or right or wrong.

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Speaker 2: Well, well, wait what you made it? You made a

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00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:19,000
Speaker 2: couple of different claims here. First on the Weimar German

434
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:24,040
Speaker 2: any issue. I don't know why you hold the religious

435
00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:29,760
Speaker 2: right responsible for Nazism. I mean, the religious right in

436
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:34,080
Speaker 2: Nazi Germany was was not often a force for good,

437
00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:36,240
Speaker 2: and often it was a force for evil, which is

438
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:40,680
Speaker 2: a tragedy. But Nazism was not a Christian phenomenon. It

439
00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:43,920
Speaker 2: was a post Christian, even anti Christian phenomenon.

440
00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:45,000
Speaker 5: I'm aware.

441
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:49,280
Speaker 2: Okay, all right, so let's leave that aside. So what, Yes, anyway,

442
00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:52,640
Speaker 2: you're right, it is frightening, But the world, the world

443
00:28:52,720 --> 00:29:00,160
Speaker 2: is a frightening place. Evil often wins, it is widespread.

444
00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:04,200
Speaker 9: The most definition though, to me, to me, the.

445
00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:12,760
Speaker 2: Deliberate, in the deliberate infliction of cruelty upon the undeserving.

446
00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:17,720
Speaker 9: See that's well, that would be that would be an

447
00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:22,160
Speaker 9: example of evil. But itself is anything which destroys life,

448
00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:23,720
Speaker 9: good being, anything wh's forward.

449
00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:26,520
Speaker 2: Well, that's not true. It's not anything which destroys life.

450
00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:29,760
Speaker 2: I'm for capital punishment, I'm for self defense. It's not true.

451
00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:32,800
Speaker 2: I'm for destroying Osama bin Laden's life.

452
00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:35,920
Speaker 9: All because no, See, capital punishment isn't necessarily you're you're,

453
00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:38,480
Speaker 9: you're you're not you're you're, you're too you're focusing it

454
00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:42,360
Speaker 9: too narrow. When you broaden it, capital punishment is actually

455
00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:44,800
Speaker 9: a deterrence to others to commit the crime that the

456
00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:45,720
Speaker 9: person being punished.

457
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:49,120
Speaker 2: Yes, I I well that's right. That's one of the reasons. Yes,

458
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:52,240
Speaker 2: you mean life in the broadest.

459
00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:54,480
Speaker 9: Sense, Yes, life being.

460
00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:56,480
Speaker 6: My life.

461
00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:58,960
Speaker 2: Okay, so that is so, that is all right. That's

462
00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:00,760
Speaker 2: Tim's definition of good.

463
00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:05,080
Speaker 9: No, that is the definition of good. If life is

464
00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:07,400
Speaker 9: the ultimate value, every other thing, everybody, no.

465
00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:10,280
Speaker 2: No, no, but who said but wait, wait, wait, that's

466
00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:13,920
Speaker 2: a big if, Tim. That's Tim's statement that life is

467
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:17,560
Speaker 2: the ultimate value. There are people who believe pleasure is

468
00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:19,840
Speaker 2: the ultimate value. And if it's take and it means

469
00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:23,080
Speaker 2: taking your life, then they'll take your life. Whatever you

470
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:26,400
Speaker 2: claim to be the ultimate value, Tim or anybody else.

471
00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:31,200
Speaker 2: That's your leap of faith. That's no more objectively true

472
00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:37,160
Speaker 2: than my belief in God. That's all you. You You

473
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:41,320
Speaker 2: can't you you can't deny or you can't ignore that fact.

474
00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:45,240
Speaker 2: You have made your leap. But somebody will make a

475
00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:48,959
Speaker 2: different leap. That's why I would like to spread the

476
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:51,360
Speaker 2: notion that the God of the Ten Commandments is real

477
00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:56,720
Speaker 2: and that the Ten Commandments reflect real morality. That's that's

478
00:30:56,760 --> 00:31:01,960
Speaker 2: what I believe people ought to be doing, and that's

479
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:05,000
Speaker 2: where I have put all the eggs of my moral

480
00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:10,479
Speaker 2: basket and world improvement basket. All right, all right, let's

481
00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:20,600
Speaker 2: let's see here. Oh okay, we'll go to San Antonio,

482
00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:23,920
Speaker 2: Texas and David. Hello, David, Dennis Prager.

483
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:26,080
Speaker 6: Hi, Dennis, Great to talk to you again.

484
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:27,120
Speaker 2: Thank you.

485
00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:31,760
Speaker 6: Yeah. I have a My sister in law is English

486
00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:36,560
Speaker 6: and uh, you know, she was raised her parents were religious.

487
00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:37,959
Speaker 6: She grew up and then I you know, I'm not

488
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:40,400
Speaker 6: really sure when she made the conversion, but she became

489
00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:44,200
Speaker 6: an atheist. And her and I've had some really long talks,

490
00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:46,920
Speaker 6: and I've actually had her thinking different ways. But you know,

491
00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:49,440
Speaker 6: one of the things that I've always thought and wanted

492
00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:52,000
Speaker 6: your you know, call on it was, you know, these

493
00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:54,560
Speaker 6: people that are atheists, that are good people, they get

494
00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:57,880
Speaker 6: their moral values from somewhere, and it's that that small

495
00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:01,920
Speaker 6: amount or large amount of church that they had when

496
00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:04,360
Speaker 6: they were kids. Because you know, some of the values

497
00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:07,640
Speaker 6: that they expouse are the same thing you know, you know, dulshia,

498
00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:08,200
Speaker 6: not murder.

499
00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:12,040
Speaker 2: That's right, that's right. Now listen to this from somewhere.

500
00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:15,280
Speaker 2: That's right, David. You're gonna love this. It's not mine,

501
00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:18,040
Speaker 2: so I can give it all the praise I want.

502
00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:21,520
Speaker 2: I don't remember whom I first heard it from, but

503
00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:25,880
Speaker 2: it is brilliant. It's called cut flower ethics, and the

504
00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:34,360
Speaker 2: author compared ethics without religion without God to flowers without

505
00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:38,440
Speaker 2: their soil. You can cut flowers from their soil, and

506
00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:42,960
Speaker 2: for a while they look like they're living, but eventually,

507
00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:45,600
Speaker 2: of course, they wither and die without the soil that

508
00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:50,120
Speaker 2: nurtured them. If when we have cut off ethics from

509
00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:52,680
Speaker 2: the soil that nurtured them in the Western world, the

510
00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:57,320
Speaker 2: religious God based soil, they look like they are existing,

511
00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:01,120
Speaker 2: that they're surviving on their own, but they will wither

512
00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:05,760
Speaker 2: and die. Also, we continue on the Ultimate Issues Hour

513
00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:07,120
Speaker 2: on the Dennis Prager Show.

514
00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:14,000
Speaker 10: If you have a friend on whom you think you

515
00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:20,360
Speaker 10: can't lie, you are lucky man. If you've found the

516
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:27,480
Speaker 10: reason to live on and not to die, well, lucky man.

517
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:32,160
Speaker 2: The final segment here of today's edition this week's edition

518
00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:38,360
Speaker 2: actually of the Ultimate Issues Hour, part of the American Trinity,

519
00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:41,680
Speaker 2: as I call it a pluribus unim. Liberty in God

520
00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:45,360
Speaker 2: we trust is in God we trust the importance of God,

521
00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:51,520
Speaker 2: the well importance is actually understated. The indispensability of God

522
00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:56,120
Speaker 2: to morality. And in case you're just tuning in, the

523
00:33:56,200 --> 00:34:00,760
Speaker 2: proposition is quite simple, and I think logically irrefutable. If

524
00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:03,120
Speaker 2: there is no God who is the source of morality,

525
00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:06,400
Speaker 2: morality therefore does not objectively exist. It doesn't mean an

526
00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:08,800
Speaker 2: atheist can't be a nice person. It doesn't mean we're

527
00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:12,880
Speaker 2: believers are all nice people. How people act, this is

528
00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:15,239
Speaker 2: not the question here. It's whether or not real good

529
00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:17,960
Speaker 2: and evil they really exist, or they are matters of

530
00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:22,440
Speaker 2: subjective of opinion. If God says thou shalt not murder,

531
00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:24,680
Speaker 2: then murder is wrong. No God to say it, then

532
00:34:24,720 --> 00:34:27,320
Speaker 2: it isn't wrong. It's just a matter of personal opinion.

533
00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:32,600
Speaker 2: Let's go to Detroit, Michigan and Tony. Hello, Tony, Dennis Praeger.

534
00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:36,359
Speaker 8: Hi, Dennis. First of all, I really do enjoy's show.

535
00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:38,200
Speaker 8: I listened to it daily. I'm in the entire daily,

536
00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:40,479
Speaker 8: so I do listen to it. What what I don't

537
00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:43,920
Speaker 8: understand is again the leap of faith that you are taking.

538
00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:46,880
Speaker 8: Is right from the beginning, right from the axiom of

539
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:51,719
Speaker 8: the conversation, is that the Bible, or the Quran or

540
00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:56,040
Speaker 8: the Torah was written by God. It was not those values,

541
00:34:56,360 --> 00:35:00,720
Speaker 8: those institutions, those you know, words came from the hand

542
00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:05,400
Speaker 8: of man. It was man's consciousness that developed those values.

543
00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:09,719
Speaker 8: You can't tell me that man, you know that the

544
00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:14,040
Speaker 8: only reason one doesn't murder is because God forbids it.

545
00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:16,520
Speaker 2: You mean, no, I didn't say that's the only reason

546
00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:20,040
Speaker 2: at all. There may be emotional reasons of revolt against murder.

547
00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:22,319
Speaker 2: You may think it's wrong. All I said was that

548
00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:25,319
Speaker 2: murder isn't objectively wrong if God does. If there is

549
00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:28,520
Speaker 2: no God, to say it's wrong. If there is no God,

550
00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:33,720
Speaker 2: we're just molecules, Tony, We're just molecules. Dennis.

551
00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:36,279
Speaker 8: You're making the claim there's a God. It's incumbent upon

552
00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:37,600
Speaker 8: you to prove it.

553
00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:41,560
Speaker 2: No, it isn't. No, it isn't. I'm not saying it's provable.

554
00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:45,280
Speaker 2: You're making a claim that there's a good and evil.

555
00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:47,600
Speaker 2: It's incumbent upon you to prove it. No, it isn't.

556
00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:50,279
Speaker 2: You can't prove there's a good and an evil. And

557
00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:52,960
Speaker 2: I can't prove there's a God. All I can prove

558
00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:55,799
Speaker 2: is that if there is no God, there's no such

559
00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:59,120
Speaker 2: thing as objective good and evil. They're just opinions. That's

560
00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:02,280
Speaker 2: all I'm saying. It's a big all, but that's all.

561
00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:06,080
Speaker 2: I don't offer God for proof. It's not provable, I

562
00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:09,920
Speaker 2: admit it. But I want people to be intellectually honest

563
00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:12,920
Speaker 2: enough to understand that if there isn't a God, something

564
00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:17,480
Speaker 2: above DNA that put in us a knowledge of good

565
00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:20,120
Speaker 2: and evil, then there is good and evil. It's just

566
00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:24,240
Speaker 2: a personal opinion. That's why it's so big. Plus there's

567
00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:27,680
Speaker 2: no one to be accountable to because you don't have

568
00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:31,480
Speaker 2: to answer for what you did only if there is

569
00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:31,879
Speaker 2: a God.

570
00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:32,279
Speaker 10: Do you.

571
00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:36,719
Speaker 2: All right? Thank you for listening, and I hope you'll

572
00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:39,960
Speaker 2: go again. Prager University at YouTube. Just go to YouTube

573
00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:44,040
Speaker 2: dot com put in Peger University watch the video on

574
00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:48,120
Speaker 2: America's values. God is one of the central ones. Thanks

575
00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:48,680
Speaker 2: for listening.

576
00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:58,720
Speaker 1: This has been timeless wisdom with Dennis Prager. Visit Dennisprager

577
00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:02,280
Speaker 1: dot com for thousands of hours of Dennis's lectures, courses,

578
00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:06,960
Speaker 1: and classic radio programs, and to purchase Dennis Prager's Rational bibles,