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Speaker 1: Life Audio.

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Speaker 2: Hello, Hello, and welcome to the Confessions of a Christian

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Speaker 2: Alcoholic podcast. I am your host, John Seidel. This is

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Speaker 2: your home for real stories, radical vulnerability, and remarkable comebacks.

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Speaker 2: In the end, this podcast is a place for the desperate,

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Speaker 2: the downtrodden, the destitute, and especially the drunk.

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Speaker 1: But it's also a place of hope and healing.

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Speaker 2: I know that firsthand because I'm the Christian who became

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Speaker 2: an alcoholic, not the other way around. Today I've found

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Speaker 2: sobriety after decades of struggling. But more importantly than finding sobriety,

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Speaker 2: I found Jesus.

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Speaker 1: My prayer is.

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Speaker 2: That as I interview people just like you and just

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Speaker 2: like me, along with professionals in the fields of trauma,

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Speaker 2: faith and addiction recovery, you will find the piece that

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Speaker 2: is available to you through Christ on the other side

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Speaker 2: of whatever you're going through and whatever addiction that might be.

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Speaker 2: Because let's face it, we're all addicted to something so welcome.

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Speaker 2: Let's get radically vulnerable as we explore what it looks

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Speaker 2: like to be on this journey of MESSI sanctification.

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Speaker 1: We'll be right back after this.

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Speaker 2: One of the things I never want to lose sight

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Speaker 2: about this podcast is that it was really founded on

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Speaker 2: one idea, and that is the power of storytelling. And

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Speaker 2: so consistently what I hear from you guys is that

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Speaker 2: the episodes where we tell regular stories from regular people

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Speaker 2: about their struggles with addiction, alcohol, whatever are some of

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Speaker 2: the most impactful and powerful. And so today is one

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Speaker 2: of those episodes. And I am so excited to get

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Speaker 2: to introduce you to someone who has become a friend

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Speaker 2: of mine. His name is Jp Graves, and Jp is

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Speaker 2: a guy just like me, just like you. He is

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Speaker 2: a Christian that became an alcoholic. He is someone who

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Speaker 2: loves Jesus and yet struggled with this secret sin that

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Speaker 2: was literally wasting away his body. He's going to tell

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Speaker 2: the story of how, towards the end of his most

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Speaker 2: severe drinking, he literally could not swallow the vodka and

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Speaker 2: the alcohol had done. He was drinking so much that

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Speaker 2: it was literally eroding his esophagus. And I think what

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Speaker 2: is important about JP's story is and yet right, and

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Speaker 2: yet he was faithful to go to church, he was

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Speaker 2: involved at church, right, and yet he still struggled. And

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Speaker 2: I just you know, that's what this podcast is about.

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Speaker 2: It's about how we can continue to struggle with sins

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Speaker 2: along that sanctification process, and that sanctification process is what

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Speaker 2: is inherent is that in that is that we are

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Speaker 2: still striving to be more like Jesus every day. So

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Speaker 2: JP's story, I first heard it on another podcast with

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Speaker 2: Matt Chandler, who is a pastor here in the Dallas

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Speaker 2: Fort Worth area, president of the X twenty nine Church

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Speaker 2: Planning Network. He's someone who's been influential in my life.

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Speaker 2: I quote him extensively in my book. His book The

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Speaker 2: Overcomers is really great. And so JP goes to his

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Speaker 2: church and Matt interviewed JP and his wife, and I

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Speaker 2: just was blown away, like I.

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Speaker 1: Still continue to see.

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Speaker 2: How how important it is for me to consume stories

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Speaker 2: that I can see myself in, And so I think

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Speaker 2: I'm hoping that you will be able to see yourself

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Speaker 2: in JP's story. Before we get to JP, just a reminder,

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Speaker 2: I would be so honored if you would pick up

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Speaker 2: the book Confessions of a Christian Alcoholic. A lot of

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Speaker 2: the stuff that we're going to talk about today with

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Speaker 2: me and JP, it's just going to broach the surface

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Speaker 2: of deeper ideas and concepts and principles that are fleshed

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Speaker 2: out in the book. You'll also get to hear my

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Speaker 2: story if you haven't heard that as well. So you

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Speaker 2: can go to Christian Alcoholic dot com Christianalcoholic dot com

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Speaker 2: and get the book for thirty percent off plus free

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Speaker 2: shipping from the publisher, or you can get it on

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Speaker 2: Amazon as well. So, without further ado, I want to

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Speaker 2: introduce you to JP Graves and just soak up this

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Speaker 2: story and I pray that you can see yourself in

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Speaker 2: it and that there is at least one aspect that

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Speaker 2: the Lord uses to get a hold of you as

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Speaker 2: you listen to his words. JP, thank you so much

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Speaker 2: for joining the podcast. You know, I said in the introduction,

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Speaker 2: we have a lot of you know, cool people and

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Speaker 2: people with followings and whatnot. But one of the things

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Speaker 2: that I actually in the feedback that I've gotten is

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Speaker 2: that some of the best episodes are people who are

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Speaker 2: just regular regular people, right Yeah, regular moms, regular dads,

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Speaker 2: regular husbands, regular wives who have gone through this. And

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Speaker 2: I think in so many ways people can relate to that,

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Speaker 2: and I think people will be able to relate to

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Speaker 2: your story today, and so I'm really appreciative of you

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Speaker 2: coming on.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Happy to be here, Thanks for thanks for reaching out.

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Speaker 3: Excited to just share my story and what the Lord's

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Speaker 3: done in and through me in the past two and

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Speaker 3: a half years.

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Speaker 2: Which is funny because I think we both I'm at

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Speaker 2: two and a half years sober. Yeah, so we're very

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Speaker 2: similar on this journey. You know, I had I was

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Speaker 2: introduced to you through another podcast that I heard that

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Speaker 2: you were on through a mutual friend of ours. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: Matt Chandler, You've been on his podcast, and you know,

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Speaker 2: I remember just listening to that story and I was like,

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Speaker 2: oh my gosh. Right, Like, and I still by the way,

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Speaker 2: people who are listening to this, like one of my

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Speaker 2: hopes is that you'll hear JP's story and you'll be like,

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Speaker 2: I'm not alone, right'. I still get that, right. So

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Speaker 2: I hear JP story and I'm like, I'm not alone, right,

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Speaker 2: Like even down to kind of some of the timeline

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Speaker 2: that we that we share as well. But before we

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Speaker 2: get to your story, just tell people a little bit

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Speaker 2: about yourself and who you are.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So, JP Graves, I've man, I've I've been a

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Speaker 3: believer since two thousand and three, and so I was

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Speaker 3: I was saved back then and Prior to that, like

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Speaker 3: I grew up in the church, grew up Presbyterian, like

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Speaker 3: always always having to wear the you know, khakis and

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Speaker 3: the button up shirt to look the part, and so

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Speaker 3: like I always knew about God, and I always I

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Speaker 3: always thought I was close to him, but it wasn't

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Speaker 3: really like until yeah, until I got to like high

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Speaker 3: school years, that that was really just started or that

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Speaker 3: started to be challenged by like cultural pressures, social pressures,

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Speaker 3: things like that, and and I just really wanted to

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Speaker 3: explore that, you know, I just I started pretty early

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Speaker 3: like getting into my dad's liquor cabinet and I would

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Speaker 3: even like steal bottles from there and take them over

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Speaker 3: to my friend's house. And and then that led to

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Speaker 3: like smoking weed, and and before I knew it, I

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Speaker 3: was I was really like kind of entrenched in that

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Speaker 3: lifestyle like really early on, and gosh, yeah, that just

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Speaker 3: led to, you know, being promiscuous, and it led to

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Speaker 3: just always partying with my friends. And then like two

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Speaker 3: thousand and three, man, I had this like crazy like

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Speaker 3: Paul on the Orsaw on the Road to Damascus type

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Speaker 3: situation where I was living with a friend. So it

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Speaker 3: had gotten so bad to where like I was living

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Speaker 3: with a friend who was dealing weed out of our apartment.

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Speaker 3: And I remember like at this time, I was like

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Speaker 3: taking college classes and I was also working at like FedEx,

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Speaker 3: but I didn't have a bank account, and I would

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Speaker 3: put like my money in my Bible next to my

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Speaker 3: nightstand in the apartment. And so our apartment long story short,

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Speaker 3: like got broken into and my money was gone out

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Speaker 3: of my Bible and I had this like crazy aha

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Speaker 3: moment where the Holy Spirit just like illuminated the fact

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Speaker 3: that I was using the Bible to save my money,

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Speaker 3: but I wasn't using the Bible to save me. And

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Speaker 3: it was crazy, like all of a sudden, like my

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Speaker 3: desires had changed. I started going to like the parties

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Speaker 3: that I normally showed up to, like smoking weed joints,

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Speaker 3: all the things. I was showing up sober, and they

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Speaker 3: were like, what has happened to you? I was like,

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Speaker 3: I can't explain it, Like Jesus came into my heart

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Speaker 3: and I don't. I don't want to do these things anymore.

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Speaker 4: I want to follow him. And they were like who

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Speaker 4: the bullet preacher boy, you know, like just like mocking me.

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Speaker 3: And yeah, So from there, I like I just basically

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Speaker 3: like started going to church, found like a whole new

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Speaker 3: community of believers to hang out with, and I quit

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Speaker 3: doing like basically all of those things. And my journey,

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Speaker 3: you know, I started going to like First Baptist Julis

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Speaker 3: for a little while, and then I moved over to

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Speaker 3: Fellowship Church and got.

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Speaker 2: A bigger church in the in the Dallas Dallas area, yeah,

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Speaker 2: where Grapevine.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: And so from there, I like one of my friends

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Speaker 3: told me about this Matt Chandler guy. And this was

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Speaker 3: probably like six oh five o six somewhere around there.

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Speaker 1: And I've been how old are you around this time?

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Speaker 3: I was twenty one, twenty twenty one, So when I

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Speaker 3: got saved, I was twenty. And then around the time

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Speaker 3: like I heard, you know about Matt and the village,

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Speaker 3: I think I was like twenty two, twenty three somewhere

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Speaker 3: around there. And that was that was something where I

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Speaker 3: was like, man, I had never never heard the gospel

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Speaker 3: preach like this, and why is this pastor yelling at me?

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Speaker 4: But I loved it. It was like gritty, it was.

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Speaker 4: It was awesome.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, kind of a kind of a tangent here in

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Speaker 3: a rabbit hole, but that's how I that's how I

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Speaker 3: funny enough, I got involved with this home group, started

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Speaker 3: going to the village, got involved with this home group.

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Speaker 3: I was living in Grapevine, Texas at the time, and

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Speaker 3: I hadn't been doing literally any of those things like

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Speaker 3: drinking alcohol, smoking anything like that. And I met this

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Speaker 3: group of guys that I remember like they were doing

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Speaker 3: a Bible study at the tap end in grape Vine,

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Speaker 3: like at a bar, and I was like, oh, okay,

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Speaker 3: so so like, I don't I don't have to be

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Speaker 3: like legalistic with this stuff. I can still enjoy beer

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Speaker 3: and and still be a believer, Like this is great.

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Speaker 3: And so I just started to kind of like readopt

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Speaker 3: alcohol into my life. And I didn't see it as

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Speaker 3: you know, an obstacle. I didn't see it as any

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Speaker 3: of that. And so it became like a permanent fixture

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Speaker 3: after that point again, because then I became really like

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Speaker 3: an enthusiast for like I pas and whiskeys and things

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Speaker 3: like that, and I just carried it along to every

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Speaker 3: single aspect of my life.

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Speaker 2: Can you pause there for a second, Yes, I think

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Speaker 2: you know. I bring this up in in in my

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Speaker 2: book as well, right that there was this culture you know,

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Speaker 2: and I'll not to get too wonky on people, but

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Speaker 2: there's kind of this movement called the Young Restless reformed

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Speaker 2: right where, and I think that's kind of what you're

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Speaker 2: talking about. Like you were raised Presbyterian, right kind of

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Speaker 2: reformed theology, and in a sense it was like, hey,

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Speaker 2: we were raised so legalistic and we were told like

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Speaker 2: this stuff is the devil's water and you can't touch it all.

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Speaker 2: But oh wait, all of a sudden there was this

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Speaker 2: realization like, no, the Bible doesn't say that, which it doesn't,

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Speaker 2: right and then and yet it seems to me like

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Speaker 2: the pendulum kind of swung. Yeah, And I know that

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Speaker 2: in my own life, while like I used that kind

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Speaker 2: of cultural moment within the church where it was like,

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Speaker 2: you know, beer and Bible, you know, pints with Lewis

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Speaker 2: like kind of like all this this stuff to then

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Speaker 2: Like and I'm not blaming that, like because that group

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Speaker 2: of people there was a lot of them that could

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Speaker 2: do it well right, like they wouldn't get drunk, and

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Speaker 2: so I'm not saying, oh my God, terminate right, but

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Speaker 2: I can also see that how in my own story

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Speaker 2: that was used as a in a sense, an entry

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Speaker 2: an entryway right into incorporating beer and alcohol into every

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Speaker 2: aspect of your life.

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Speaker 1: So so I was is that the same for you?

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Speaker 1: Or how did you?

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Speaker 4: How do you go? So?

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Speaker 3: So for me, like, it wasn't because of the village

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Speaker 3: church or because of that group of friends. It was

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Speaker 3: because in my spirit, like I lacked self control, and

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Speaker 3: when it came to freedoms, I abused those freedoms.

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Speaker 4: That's what I had a history of.

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Speaker 3: And then when I saw that I had like a

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Speaker 3: really good excuse to not be legalistic, that's where it

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Speaker 3: started to you know, take a foothold in my life.

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Speaker 3: You know, it was because of my own sin and

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Speaker 3: my own heart and that not being dealt with like

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Speaker 3: those are very like fine things like to have a

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Speaker 3: beer and enjoy it, like that's a gift of the Lord,

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Speaker 3: like great, But I was never one that could enjoy

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Speaker 3: it responsibly. I was never one that could manage it,

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Speaker 3: you know, And I just never wanted to like accept

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Speaker 3: the fact that that was the case for me, because yeah,

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Speaker 3: there was always times where, like man, I would be

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Speaker 3: hanging out with my friends and they would be done

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Speaker 3: at like two or or maybe three most right, and

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Speaker 3: then I would be the one who would say, come on,

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Speaker 3: let's have another come on, you know, I would be

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Speaker 3: the one doing that, not necessarily them, And so yeah,

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Speaker 3: it was it was something in my heart where I

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Speaker 3: took advantage and abused those freedoms, like really early on,

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Speaker 3: and I didn't see any reason why, like I couldn't

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Speaker 3: be a Christian and also like enjoy alcohol the way

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Speaker 3: I did. But I also didn't have any like mentors

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Speaker 3: around me at the time, Like I wasn't necessarily seeking

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Speaker 3: out discipleship and those types of things, right, So I

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Speaker 3: didn't have anybody speaking truth into my life. It was

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Speaker 3: all just like kind of peers newer believers like that

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Speaker 3: sort of thing. And so yeah, that now it's like,

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Speaker 3: looking back, if somebody was able to like say, hey, buddy,

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Speaker 3: you know, I think it would have been helpful.

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Speaker 4: But that's on me too, right, that's not it anybody else.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So you're in this period where you know, now

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Speaker 2: alcohol kind of starts being incorporated into you know, almost

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Speaker 2: every aspect of life. So take us from there.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so fast forward from there, like that's all kind

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Speaker 3: of college time, you know, hanging out with these guys,

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Speaker 3: and then I moved to Dallas, and that's where I

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Speaker 3: met my wife. So we met in like two thousand

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Speaker 3: and late two thousand and nine, early twenty ten. She

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Speaker 3: was going to the Dallas campus at the Village, which

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Speaker 3: is where I ended up since I moved out to Dallas,

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Speaker 3: and so we dated for a while. She also loved

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Speaker 3: kind of the partying lifestyle. So we were like really

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Speaker 3: great in that department. We were drinking buddies. We love

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Speaker 3: to hang out, have wine or beer together, enjoy ourselves

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Speaker 3: with our friends. We just really like that was a

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Speaker 3: that was another permanent fixture kind of in our lives. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: and so we ended up getting married in twenty twelve,

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Speaker 3: and from yeah, we got married Mason actually the guy

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Speaker 3: that introduced us was.

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Speaker 4: The guy that I married.

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Speaker 1: Mutual friend.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So got married in twenty twelve. Moved out to

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Speaker 3: San Diego in twenty thirteen for my job, so in

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Speaker 3: the whole recruiting and sales world, and so I had

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Speaker 3: an opportunity out there, and so we Yeah, we lived

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Speaker 3: out there for two years, and during that time we

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Speaker 3: had our first child, Lachlan, and she'll be turning eleven

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Speaker 3: here in like a week. But yeah, so had Lachlan

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Speaker 3: out there and then found out that Ashley was pregnant

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Speaker 3: with our second Benson, and so we decided to in

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Speaker 3: like late twenty fifteen, moved back to Texas, back to

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Speaker 3: the DFW area, and then from there rejoined the village.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and that's.

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Speaker 3: Kind of where things started to take a little bit

295
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Speaker 3: of a turn for me. I was, I was enjoying

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Speaker 3: alcohol on a regular basis, and then in twenty sixteen,

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Speaker 3: I had to leave the job that like I really

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Speaker 3: enjoyed and take a job that I really didn't want

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Speaker 3: to in order to get back here, and so I

300
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Speaker 3: started to notice, you know, ramping up the alcohol a

301
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Speaker 3: little bit more in order to cope and deal with

302
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Speaker 3: like those types of frustrations. And so it wasn't it

303
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Speaker 3: certainly wasn't to the point that it that it got

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Speaker 3: to in like twenty twenty, but and I'll get to

305
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Speaker 3: that in a little bit, but it was it was

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Speaker 3: definitely becoming like an every night thing to where I was,

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Speaker 3: you know, drinking like two or three beers every single night,

308
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Speaker 3: and then it would just kind of consistently grow from

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Speaker 3: there and having two kids, moving into you know, an apartment,

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Speaker 3: moving across country, like there's a lot of stressors there

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Speaker 3: and I really didn't know how to deal with those

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Speaker 3: stressors like in a healthy way. And I certainly wasn't

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Speaker 3: like leaning on the Lord in any of that.

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Speaker 2: And so, you know, and I want to make this clear,

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Speaker 2: like even though you're a Christian, even though you're attending

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Speaker 2: a great Bible believing church, right that is you know,

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Speaker 2: And this is the one thing that I talked about too.

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Speaker 2: It's like I was drawn to Matt Chandler's preaching as well.

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Speaker 2: He was in your face, he was calling out sin,

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Speaker 2: and it's like, and I think what I want and

321
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Speaker 2: I and I and I and I harp on this

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Speaker 2: in so many episodes and in the book, is like

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Speaker 2: there are parts of yourself that are are drawn to

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Speaker 2: that that maybe even it wasn't my case, but maybe

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Speaker 2: even that are dealing with some sin issues in your life.

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Speaker 2: And yet we have those kind of areas that we

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Speaker 2: wall off and we have this cognitive dissonance that we say,

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Speaker 2: you know, yeah, I'm I'm improving and doing stuff in

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Speaker 2: this area, but not this area.

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Speaker 1: I'm not giving that over to the Lord.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, And that was man.

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Speaker 3: That's always been one of my biggest battles, is that

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Speaker 3: like on the outside I'll you know, make it seem

334
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Speaker 3: like everything's great, Say how you doing it?

335
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Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm great, you know good.

336
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Speaker 3: But then on the inside, there's something like looking back,

337
00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:41,520
Speaker 3: there was always something there that I was like, yeah,

338
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Speaker 3: I mean he can have these aspects like I would

339
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Speaker 3: compartmentalize and say, no, he's absolutely not taking this because

340
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Speaker 3: how can I enjoy life or how can I deal

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Speaker 3: with these stresses like without that?

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Speaker 4: And I just didn't.

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Speaker 3: I didn't think enough of who Jesus is to like

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Speaker 3: ever give that to him. Yeah, And so I just

345
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Speaker 3: I just kept slowly but surely, like never intending to

346
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Speaker 3: were like nobody ever in my opinion, right, Like I

347
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Speaker 3: wasn't going out and partying anymore, right I was, Yeah,

348
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Speaker 3: I was just enjoying a little bit more because now

349
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Speaker 3: I've built up a tolerance and so yeah, I'm gonna

350
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Speaker 3: make sure that I always have enough there just in

351
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Speaker 3: case something comes up or just in case I want

352
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Speaker 3: to celebrate something, whatever the case, just in case, you know, yeah,

353
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Speaker 3: and so I in case, here's a case, just in case,

354
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Speaker 3: there's always a case. Yeah, And so that was really

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Speaker 3: the story of that time frame. And then what's your

356
00:21:51,359 --> 00:21:55,520
Speaker 3: wife's drinking? Like in that period. She she was never

357
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Speaker 3: a super heavy drinker, like I gradually got to heavier

358
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Speaker 3: and heavier with my drinking, but she would she would

359
00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:07,520
Speaker 3: always just like really enjoy like the two glasses of

360
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Speaker 3: wine a night, and that was enough for her. Like

361
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Speaker 3: she hated the feeling of ever being drunk, like she

362
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Speaker 3: had gotten drunk a few times, like drunk drunk, and

363
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Speaker 3: she like swore that off, like don't want to feel

364
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Speaker 3: that way, not going to push the limits. So she

365
00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:26,760
Speaker 3: really was just there with me, although like she would

366
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Speaker 3: never quote unquote go hard.

367
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Speaker 4: You know, yeah, she would. She would just use it

368
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Speaker 4: to take the edge off.

369
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Speaker 3: But I don't have that personality, and I like, if

370
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Speaker 3: I start to feel that buzz, like I want to

371
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Speaker 3: keep that going at any cost, I don't care. You know.

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Speaker 2: You know, my wife and I had a conversation the

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Speaker 2: other day as we continue to talk through this and

374
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Speaker 2: work through this and all this kind of stuff, and

375
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Speaker 2: I think, you know, in her mind what she has

376
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Speaker 2: still tried to wrap her around and I don't think

377
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Speaker 2: she ever will.

378
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Speaker 1: Yeah, is she's like.

379
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Speaker 2: I she goes, I cannot understand the mentality of like

380
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Speaker 2: like for me, why would you drink unless you can

381
00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:15,840
Speaker 2: feel buzz like I just don't, like, I still don't

382
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Speaker 2: get it right, Like my sinful nature is like I don't.

383
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Speaker 2: I never want just one. I never want just two,

384
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Speaker 2: because as soon as I start feeling that buzz, I'm

385
00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:28,920
Speaker 2: like this is good, Yes, this is I need more

386
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Speaker 2: of this right now, as soon as possible.

387
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Speaker 4: Right right.

388
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Speaker 2: And my wife is like, I truly don't understand how

389
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Speaker 2: you can drink just one, like for the taste I

390
00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:44,360
Speaker 2: don't like to me, there's always a feeling attached with it, right.

391
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Speaker 2: And my wife is like, I don't understand you. She's like, yeah,

392
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Speaker 2: I can drink one drink and like that's it. And

393
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Speaker 2: I'm like, yeah, I can't.

394
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Speaker 1: I can't.

395
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Speaker 2: Yeah, So just like you, as soon as you start

396
00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:56,200
Speaker 2: feeling it, I'm like, I need more of this right now.

397
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Speaker 4: Yeah yeah.

398
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Speaker 3: I often like would with my recovery guys, that like

399
00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:06,280
Speaker 3: more of like a torture or a sentence to me,

400
00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:09,720
Speaker 3: would be being allowed to have one beer for the

401
00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:11,200
Speaker 3: rest of my life, like a day.

402
00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:14,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a great point.

403
00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:18,360
Speaker 4: I was like, I know, uh uh no, that is awful.

404
00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:24,320
Speaker 4: That is torture. Yeah, like yeah, rather just never touch

405
00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:28,600
Speaker 4: it again then be allowed to have one a day. Yep,

406
00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:31,360
Speaker 4: like that. Yep, I could never do that, could never

407
00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:31,720
Speaker 4: do that.

408
00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:35,760
Speaker 2: Okay, so this is you know, you're kind of starting

409
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Speaker 2: to get into potentially twenty twenty territory.

410
00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:40,840
Speaker 1: So take us, take us, take us to that group

411
00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:42,320
Speaker 1: up in that period.

412
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Speaker 2: So you're drinking, it has increased, you're drinking more consistently

413
00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:48,440
Speaker 2: as two, three, maybe four, You're building up a tolerance.

414
00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:50,719
Speaker 1: And then what happens in twenty twenty. We'll be right

415
00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:51,359
Speaker 1: back after this.

416
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Speaker 4: Yeah, I think a lot it hinges upon, like the career.

417
00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:06,000
Speaker 4: So I finally in two thousand, like late twenty sixteen,

418
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:10,639
Speaker 4: found another career or another job that, like I really

419
00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:11,679
Speaker 4: was excited about.

420
00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:16,760
Speaker 3: And now instead of commuting in all the time, I

421
00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:20,280
Speaker 3: was working for a company that was based in California,

422
00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:23,320
Speaker 3: and I was working from home, and I could go

423
00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:26,040
Speaker 3: out and do all my sales calls, do all those

424
00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:29,240
Speaker 3: things right to try to build up clientele, like the

425
00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:32,000
Speaker 3: business development side of things. And so that gave me

426
00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:37,760
Speaker 3: a ton of time and freedom that was really unchecked, right.

427
00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:41,280
Speaker 3: And so as I had that freedom to just work

428
00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:45,200
Speaker 3: from home, have my own schedule, like do those things.

429
00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:50,240
Speaker 3: Also a boss, the CEO of the company was like, man,

430
00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:54,560
Speaker 3: he was a whiskey aficionado, Like he was always like

431
00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:57,199
Speaker 3: he would come into town and he would get like

432
00:25:57,440 --> 00:26:01,000
Speaker 3: two hundred and fifty dollars shots of Pappy, Like he

433
00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:04,879
Speaker 3: was that guy where he didn't care, and he even

434
00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:06,280
Speaker 3: encouraged like.

435
00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:08,600
Speaker 4: Hey, take a couple of shots, make some sales calls.

436
00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:09,520
Speaker 4: It'll loosen you up.

437
00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:13,080
Speaker 3: And so I really got into the mode of like, oh, okay,

438
00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:16,440
Speaker 3: I can couple this with work now, right, instead of

439
00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:19,600
Speaker 3: having to worry like, hey, I have a governor on

440
00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:22,080
Speaker 3: this with my other job right to where I have

441
00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:25,480
Speaker 3: to show up, I can't be hungover, like I gotta

442
00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:28,359
Speaker 3: be sharp, I'm in front of other colleagues, all the things.

443
00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:30,880
Speaker 3: And so I kind of had that naturally built into

444
00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:33,920
Speaker 3: going into the office on a regular basis to now

445
00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:38,119
Speaker 3: having all of this freedom again to abuse, not knowing

446
00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:41,679
Speaker 3: how to manage alcohol or any of that stuff. And

447
00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:45,520
Speaker 3: so that led to me like going further with it,

448
00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:50,480
Speaker 3: going yeah, deeper down down the hole. And so in

449
00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:53,560
Speaker 3: twenty twenty, fast forward to that time, everything was going

450
00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:56,680
Speaker 3: well at the job. Twenty twenty hit and I'm doing

451
00:26:56,840 --> 00:27:00,879
Speaker 3: staffing and recruiting, so all these business is that we

452
00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:06,120
Speaker 3: depend on for our revenue start just shutting down, and

453
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:11,320
Speaker 3: it's like, oh no, I might I might actually lose

454
00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:19,320
Speaker 3: my job because like nobody's going into work. And luckily

455
00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:22,600
Speaker 3: they kind of pivoted on the business plan and started

456
00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:26,480
Speaker 3: like you know, putting medical assistance to work, doing temperature

457
00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:28,400
Speaker 3: checks and all sorts of things. So then we ended

458
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:33,440
Speaker 3: up doing really great pivoting the business model a little bit.

459
00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:37,399
Speaker 3: But then like that that led to like, well, you

460
00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:41,520
Speaker 3: can't go anywhere. You can't go out and do office visits,

461
00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:44,480
Speaker 3: client meetings, you can't do any of that stuff. So

462
00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:48,520
Speaker 3: now like you're just doing everything at home and you

463
00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:51,960
Speaker 3: really nobody can go do anything. Nobody can go anywhere.

464
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:54,720
Speaker 3: And so man, that is where the bottom just dropped

465
00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:58,159
Speaker 3: out for me, cause you know, after I did like

466
00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:01,000
Speaker 3: my normal sales stuff and you know, my day to

467
00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:04,000
Speaker 3: day routine, it was just what do you do? You drink?

468
00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:06,920
Speaker 3: What do you do? Oh man, the world's falling apart

469
00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:11,359
Speaker 3: you drink. And so me and my wife, like I

470
00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:14,199
Speaker 3: would even say that, Ashley you know, started ramping up

471
00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:16,879
Speaker 3: her drinking too, because everybody's like, what.

472
00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:19,399
Speaker 4: Are we gonna die? Like what's happening here?

473
00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:22,720
Speaker 3: Like we can't go anywhere you're just sitting at home, yeah, right,

474
00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:27,720
Speaker 3: so we you know, and so nobody had ever dealt

475
00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:31,879
Speaker 3: with that before. And that's really where I started going

476
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:37,000
Speaker 3: from like just being kind of again just like a

477
00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:42,360
Speaker 3: connoisseur of like IPAs and whiskeys, to then like, man,

478
00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:45,640
Speaker 3: I'm drinking a lot and like I'm getting really full

479
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:48,440
Speaker 3: off this beer. Like I don't want to do that.

480
00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:52,160
Speaker 3: So then I like moved over to like vodka. Right.

481
00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:57,040
Speaker 3: It was a lighter but stronger drink that I could

482
00:28:57,200 --> 00:29:02,080
Speaker 3: somewhat kind of conceal, right, like you can pour vodka

483
00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:04,800
Speaker 3: in something and you know, unless somebody gets like really

484
00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:07,720
Speaker 3: close to you, like nobody's really gonna know. And I

485
00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:10,280
Speaker 3: had already kind of figured out how to deal with

486
00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:12,680
Speaker 3: the tolerance side and how to how to like just

487
00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:17,360
Speaker 3: be normal or a functional alcoholic on a regular basis.

488
00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:23,720
Speaker 3: And then in twenty twenty one, I started to develop

489
00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:28,200
Speaker 3: like this throat issue where because I was drinking so

490
00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:34,960
Speaker 3: much vodka, it was it was eroding my esophagus and

491
00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:38,320
Speaker 3: so it started to become difficult to swallow, like on

492
00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:41,080
Speaker 3: a regular basis, And.

493
00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:44,160
Speaker 1: So how much how much were you drinking a day?

494
00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:47,520
Speaker 3: At this point, this had gotten to the point where

495
00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:52,400
Speaker 3: I was like easily ten to fifteen drinks in a day,

496
00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:55,760
Speaker 3: just throughout the day and start.

497
00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:57,560
Speaker 2: All yeah, all throughout the day. Would you start in

498
00:29:57,560 --> 00:29:58,640
Speaker 2: the morning, What did that look like?

499
00:29:58,720 --> 00:29:59,120
Speaker 4: Yeah?

500
00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:02,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, So this this is where like morning drinking really

501
00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:06,400
Speaker 3: started because I would wake up with a hangover and

502
00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:09,720
Speaker 3: I didn't want to pay the hangover debt, and so

503
00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:12,520
Speaker 3: I would just start accumulating more of that hangover debt

504
00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:15,520
Speaker 3: every single day, which then led me to like, oh,

505
00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:17,960
Speaker 3: if I'm gonna have to be talking with people, talking

506
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:20,360
Speaker 3: with clients, doing all those things on a regular basis,

507
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:23,680
Speaker 3: like I need to be back to the point to

508
00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:27,080
Speaker 3: where I'm functional, And so, you know, alcohol would get

509
00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:29,160
Speaker 3: me to the point to where like I wasn't feeling

510
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:32,560
Speaker 3: that jittery, my brain's going to tear apart type feeling

511
00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:36,360
Speaker 3: that I would feel with hangovers, and so I would

512
00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:39,800
Speaker 3: just kind of slowly have like I put two shots

513
00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:43,360
Speaker 3: in my drink and I would have that, and I'd

514
00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:48,200
Speaker 3: start to feel the ah, okay, I can I can

515
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:50,480
Speaker 3: breathe again. I feel like my heart's beating out of

516
00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:53,320
Speaker 3: my chest like okay, cool, and then I would have

517
00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:57,440
Speaker 3: two more, and then two more you know, throughout the

518
00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:00,240
Speaker 3: day and then all of a sudden, like eight in

519
00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:02,720
Speaker 3: I would start to feel kind of like the.

520
00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:05,920
Speaker 4: Wooh okay, you know, like this is a good day.

521
00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:12,160
Speaker 4: And because of my tolerance, like I would feel normal,

522
00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:17,360
Speaker 4: but to a normal person that's drunk. Yeah right, So yes,

523
00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:18,160
Speaker 4: I'm like, you.

524
00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:23,080
Speaker 3: Know, operating on like being drunk all the time at

525
00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:29,200
Speaker 3: this point. And then my wife starts to like ENLiGHT

526
00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:32,160
Speaker 3: twenty twenty one, she starts to feel convicted about our drinking,

527
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:36,840
Speaker 3: and so she she's like, I can't do this. I'm

528
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:39,400
Speaker 3: not going to do this to our kids. I'm not

529
00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:43,080
Speaker 3: going to have them growing up with numb parents, right,

530
00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:47,000
Speaker 3: And so she feels convicted by the spirit and she

531
00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:50,200
Speaker 3: just stops. I tried to like stop with her for

532
00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:53,800
Speaker 3: a little bit, and again it was just a little bit.

533
00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:56,000
Speaker 4: It was a comp How long was a little bit?

534
00:31:57,000 --> 00:32:00,520
Speaker 4: A couple of weeks. Yeah. I I was to the

535
00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:02,360
Speaker 4: point to where I was like, Okay, I'm gonna like

536
00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:03,760
Speaker 4: face this hangover debt.

537
00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:07,000
Speaker 3: I'm gonna I'm gonna do it. And so at that point,

538
00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:10,080
Speaker 3: like it was difficult to go two weeks. It was

539
00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:12,680
Speaker 3: difficult the first couple of days because I was like

540
00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:18,600
Speaker 3: really jittery, filling the withdrawals, like anxious, just irritable all

541
00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:22,560
Speaker 3: the things. But then I got to like, you know,

542
00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:25,120
Speaker 3: the first week, and I was like, Okay, this, this

543
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:25,680
Speaker 3: isn't bad.

544
00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:26,440
Speaker 4: But I missed it.

545
00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:30,200
Speaker 3: I like really missed it, especially like once you get

546
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:33,320
Speaker 3: past the hangover debt, then you're like, oh I feel

547
00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:38,480
Speaker 3: I feel okay again, like I'm celebrate. Yeah, I miss this,

548
00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:40,080
Speaker 3: like I won't get back to it.

549
00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:44,160
Speaker 2: Convince yourself after those two weeks, what did How did

550
00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:46,280
Speaker 2: you justify starting to drink again?

551
00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:51,080
Speaker 3: Because I never fully was committed to not drinking. I

552
00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:53,080
Speaker 3: was just like, well, I'll take a break just to

553
00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:58,680
Speaker 3: see how I feel, and and because of my addictive personality,

554
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:02,880
Speaker 3: I just I was ready to have it again. And

555
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:06,440
Speaker 3: then it was like the holidays too around this time frame,

556
00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:11,160
Speaker 3: because she stopped in November of twenty twenty one, and

557
00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:15,720
Speaker 3: so like Thanksgiving comes up and then Christmas. I think

558
00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:18,560
Speaker 3: I was sober for that Thanksgiving, but then like Christmas

559
00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:22,000
Speaker 3: and everything, and it's like, no, no, I can't do

560
00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:25,720
Speaker 3: Christmas without alcohol, Like I can't do all of these

561
00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:30,840
Speaker 3: family events without you know, being lubricated, you know, like

562
00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:35,080
Speaker 3: I need to like have that social elixir in order

563
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:36,240
Speaker 3: to do these things.

564
00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:39,240
Speaker 4: And so yeah, for me, I just I started drinking again.

565
00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:44,600
Speaker 2: And then was your wife starting to say anything about

566
00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:46,160
Speaker 2: your drinking at this point?

567
00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:46,760
Speaker 4: Not yet?

568
00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:53,160
Speaker 3: Not yet, Okay, So I think that she was experiencing

569
00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:58,440
Speaker 3: like a renewal and so she was just like enjoying that.

570
00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:03,240
Speaker 3: And I mean the JP she knew was just always

571
00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:07,280
Speaker 3: a drinking JP. So she wasn't like I wasn't doing

572
00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:11,400
Speaker 3: anything Like I wasn't being belligerent with her. I was

573
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:16,800
Speaker 3: handling my responsibilities at work, you know, still someone engaging

574
00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:17,440
Speaker 3: with the kids.

575
00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:22,960
Speaker 4: It wasn't like this was something that yeah, was was

576
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:25,520
Speaker 4: like neglect or anything like that.

577
00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:28,120
Speaker 1: Had you started driving drunk at this point?

578
00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:28,920
Speaker 4: Yeah?

579
00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:33,160
Speaker 3: Absolutely, Yeah, Yeah I was, I mean drinking all day,

580
00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:37,640
Speaker 3: all the time. Yeah, It's just that was definitely one

581
00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:41,400
Speaker 3: of the things where going through recovery and going through steps,

582
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:45,560
Speaker 3: I was just torn up about because I'd given no

583
00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:49,919
Speaker 3: thought to the fact that like, yeah, I've had these

584
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:53,400
Speaker 3: drinks and I am driving my kids in reality, and

585
00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:58,399
Speaker 3: my wife just you just don't care because it's just

586
00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:02,360
Speaker 3: again such an idol. It's something that you're like, it's.

587
00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:03,440
Speaker 1: A cognitive dissonance.

588
00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:06,440
Speaker 2: You're just able to You're able to separate it in

589
00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:09,160
Speaker 2: some weird way, You're able to justify your you know.

590
00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:11,720
Speaker 2: I mean, it's like the conversations I had with myself

591
00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:13,520
Speaker 2: about like what is point oh eight?

592
00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:14,640
Speaker 4: Right? Right?

593
00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:17,279
Speaker 2: Like I remember having those conversations like what is point

594
00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:20,759
Speaker 2: Some guy came up with that point oh eight is drunk. Well,

595
00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:23,680
Speaker 2: they don't know me, right right. They don't know my tolerance.

596
00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:25,799
Speaker 2: They don't know how I grew up. They don't know

597
00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:27,640
Speaker 2: how I'm able to hold you know. Some guy once

598
00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:30,000
Speaker 2: accused me when I first hearted talking about this. He's like, John,

599
00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:31,799
Speaker 2: you just couldn't hold your liquor. I'm like, no, sir.

600
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:34,239
Speaker 2: The problem was I could hold my liquor. I could

601
00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:36,600
Speaker 2: hold it really well and you would never know it,

602
00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:41,279
Speaker 2: you know, and I would be smasty faceted and.

603
00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:43,960
Speaker 4: You wouldn't know. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

604
00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:49,160
Speaker 3: Although what's funny about that is is I used to think, like, man,

605
00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:52,800
Speaker 3: there's no way anybody knows, because like I'm acting totally normal,

606
00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:56,040
Speaker 3: and I look at videos from back then and I'm like,

607
00:35:56,360 --> 00:36:00,560
Speaker 3: oh they knew, Like yeah, there's no way they didn't know.

608
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:03,719
Speaker 3: I just convinced myself that there's no way they didn't know,

609
00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:05,920
Speaker 3: or that there's no way they knew that I was

610
00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:07,799
Speaker 3: actually drunk, you know.

611
00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:11,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, I remember showing up drunk to my my daughter's

612
00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:14,360
Speaker 2: like Christmas program at school. You know, my wife is

613
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:16,839
Speaker 2: like elbowing me because I'm like singing the Christmas songs out,

614
00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:19,080
Speaker 2: and I'm like, people are just gonna think I'm jolly

615
00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:22,880
Speaker 2: and jovial, right, and and she's like, you are starting

616
00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:27,160
Speaker 2: to make a scene, you know, And and yet we

617
00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:28,560
Speaker 2: convince ourselves out that's.

618
00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:29,040
Speaker 1: Fine, you know.

619
00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:31,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, so COVID.

620
00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:35,240
Speaker 2: Okay, so COVID then really ramps it up.

621
00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:37,799
Speaker 1: Your wife takes a break. You take a break, but

622
00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:38,560
Speaker 1: then you start.

623
00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:43,160
Speaker 3: Again, right, start again. And then this time it gets

624
00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:48,680
Speaker 3: like way worse because now I'm kind of resentful I

625
00:36:48,719 --> 00:36:52,800
Speaker 3: lost my drinking buddy. She's doing great. She's like now

626
00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:56,440
Speaker 3: taking the role of leading and mentoring our kids, reading

627
00:36:56,480 --> 00:37:02,520
Speaker 3: the Bible, doing all of these like fruitful things with them.

628
00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:08,640
Speaker 3: And man, I'm doing so I feel like prideful in that,

629
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:11,160
Speaker 3: Like I'm doing great at my job. Things are working

630
00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:16,120
Speaker 3: really well, making good income. Yeah, this is this is

631
00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:19,279
Speaker 3: going really well. So I decide to plan like this

632
00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:23,120
Speaker 3: whole family vacation to go back to San Diego in

633
00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:28,960
Speaker 3: twenty twenty two, right, And I have a different agenda

634
00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:33,000
Speaker 3: than she does on this trip. She wants to go Disneyland,

635
00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:35,560
Speaker 3: and she wants to do all the fun activities with

636
00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:36,120
Speaker 3: the kids.

637
00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:39,160
Speaker 4: I want to go see my drinking buddies from San Diego.

638
00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:43,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, right, And I want to see all my friends

639
00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:47,080
Speaker 3: that I used to cut it up with. And yeah,

640
00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:51,200
Speaker 3: so there's this time where the throat issue is like

641
00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:54,560
Speaker 3: getting worse. So I'm like pouring more vodka into myself

642
00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:55,239
Speaker 3: to numb that.

643
00:37:56,360 --> 00:37:57,440
Speaker 4: And did you.

644
00:37:57,440 --> 00:38:00,640
Speaker 2: Have an idea that it was from drinking so much

645
00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:02,239
Speaker 2: or you're just like, man, this is this weird?

646
00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:02,840
Speaker 4: Like I did.

647
00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:08,239
Speaker 3: I did, yeah, And I was just completely stubborn. Actually think.

648
00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:13,399
Speaker 3: I went to an e NT and and they were like,

649
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:16,680
Speaker 3: what are your habits? And I told him I was like, oh,

650
00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:20,400
Speaker 3: I guess I drank Lacroix too much, like the carbonation

651
00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:23,960
Speaker 3: and I could I mean the eye.

652
00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:28,360
Speaker 4: Rolls right, like really really yeah La Croix No.

653
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:32,759
Speaker 3: And so I ended up going to the hospital in

654
00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:37,200
Speaker 3: the middle of the night in San Diego because my

655
00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:40,960
Speaker 3: throat was so bad that I couldn't even swallow.

656
00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:42,400
Speaker 4: Wow.

657
00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:45,719
Speaker 3: And so like that already pretty much put a big

658
00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:51,239
Speaker 3: damper on the trip, right And I, I mean, I

659
00:38:51,239 --> 00:38:54,839
Speaker 3: think I had like a sore throat from going to Disneyland,

660
00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:56,560
Speaker 3: but like it had gotten like.

661
00:38:56,600 --> 00:38:58,520
Speaker 4: It had exasperated. It was bad.

662
00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:01,960
Speaker 3: So I literally got I was terrified because I couldn't swallow.

663
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:03,760
Speaker 3: I was like, I gotta go to the hospital.

664
00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:08,280
Speaker 4: This is awful. And so yeah, trip basically ruined because

665
00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:08,560
Speaker 4: of that.

666
00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:13,959
Speaker 3: But after I get out of the hospital, they're like, yeah,

667
00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:16,680
Speaker 3: I guess it's a sore throat or whatever. They didn't

668
00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:19,279
Speaker 3: they didn't really know like what was really going on.

669
00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:22,480
Speaker 3: So they released me and they gave me like some pills,

670
00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:26,840
Speaker 3: which is bad, to like calm it down and help

671
00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:30,960
Speaker 3: with the pain. And so the next day we end

672
00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:34,480
Speaker 3: up going to the beach, Cornado Beach, and I take

673
00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:37,960
Speaker 3: those pills and then I also douse it with a

674
00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:41,560
Speaker 3: bunch of alcohol, and then I end up browning out

675
00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:46,160
Speaker 3: as you will, not remembering any of it, and telling

676
00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:49,840
Speaker 3: my wife that because I couldn't go visit my buddies

677
00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:53,560
Speaker 3: at the bar, that like she was a bee, like

678
00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:58,200
Speaker 3: called her that, and I still like to this day

679
00:39:58,239 --> 00:40:00,560
Speaker 3: and like, oh my gosh, I can't I'm so sorry,

680
00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:03,719
Speaker 3: like that that was not me, right, Like I don't

681
00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:07,160
Speaker 3: remember saying that to you, and that was that was it.

682
00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:10,480
Speaker 3: It was like, man, I had I had broken her trust,

683
00:40:11,080 --> 00:40:14,400
Speaker 3: I ruined the trip. She's sober.

684
00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:17,279
Speaker 4: I'm not. I'm completely opposite of that.

685
00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:21,400
Speaker 3: I have these issues with my throat and so that

686
00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:25,800
Speaker 3: just caused a great divide for us. That just led

687
00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:30,200
Speaker 3: to me like essentially hiding alcohol from her before it

688
00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:32,239
Speaker 3: was like she saw it, you know.

689
00:40:32,520 --> 00:40:34,239
Speaker 4: And and then I just.

690
00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:40,080
Speaker 3: Basically tried to quit again, didn't really succeed at that,

691
00:40:40,719 --> 00:40:45,439
Speaker 3: and decided to hide the alcohol in my backpack. Now

692
00:40:46,520 --> 00:40:49,680
Speaker 3: I was gonna you know, I'd go to Good Goodie Liquor. First,

693
00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:53,040
Speaker 3: I'd go to like the gas station and you know,

694
00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:56,960
Speaker 3: pay for the gas, but like also be able to

695
00:40:57,000 --> 00:41:00,400
Speaker 3: like pull some out so that I could go to

696
00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:03,799
Speaker 3: the gas station, so I bake in those costs, go

697
00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:07,000
Speaker 3: to Good Goodie and I'd buy like the cheap vodka

698
00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:09,600
Speaker 3: and I put it in my backpack. And then this

699
00:41:09,719 --> 00:41:13,680
Speaker 3: is like where the throat stuff really started to get bad,

700
00:41:13,719 --> 00:41:16,840
Speaker 3: because now I couldn't go more than like five minutes

701
00:41:17,520 --> 00:41:20,640
Speaker 3: without having something to lubricate my throat. So I'm like

702
00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:25,759
Speaker 3: using altoids, using gum. I even resorted to putting toothpaste

703
00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:29,040
Speaker 3: in a contact case so that at points during the

704
00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:31,320
Speaker 3: day I could pull out the contact case, take a

705
00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:33,840
Speaker 3: little bit of the toothpaste and lubricate my throat.

706
00:41:34,719 --> 00:41:35,040
Speaker 1: Wow.

707
00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:38,360
Speaker 3: And then it got even worse than that, to where

708
00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:43,799
Speaker 3: I literally couldn't sleep because it felt like somebody had

709
00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:46,560
Speaker 3: like this on my throat at night.

710
00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:49,680
Speaker 4: And so all of.

711
00:41:49,600 --> 00:41:55,200
Speaker 3: This is happening to me physically and spiritually, I'm just

712
00:41:55,200 --> 00:41:58,959
Speaker 3: in a really dark place. And then my wife tells me, hey,

713
00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:02,720
Speaker 3: I was reading the Bible with Lachlan, our oldest daughter,

714
00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:06,440
Speaker 3: and she said that she wants to accept Jesus. And

715
00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:11,759
Speaker 3: she accepted Jesus and now she wants you to baptize her.

716
00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:16,760
Speaker 3: And I was like, oh no, Like I'm a mess.

717
00:42:17,719 --> 00:42:23,840
Speaker 3: I'm an absolute mess. I can't talk, I can barely sleep,

718
00:42:24,239 --> 00:42:27,400
Speaker 3: I have anxiety through the roof. And now my daughter

719
00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:29,719
Speaker 3: wants me to get up in front of the congregation

720
00:42:30,840 --> 00:42:35,040
Speaker 3: and baptize her, you know. And so I start freaking out.

721
00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:39,920
Speaker 3: I start developing a plan like, okay, by this day,

722
00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:42,160
Speaker 3: I need to back it down to this many drinks,

723
00:42:42,520 --> 00:42:45,920
Speaker 3: and I had start googling stuff about like dependence on alcohol,

724
00:42:46,200 --> 00:42:49,800
Speaker 3: and it's terrifying. It's like, man, if you drink this many,

725
00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:52,120
Speaker 3: then like don't try to do it on your own,

726
00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:54,880
Speaker 3: like you need to go to a rehab detox facility

727
00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:57,799
Speaker 3: because you could die. And so I'm like, you're looking

728
00:42:57,840 --> 00:43:02,120
Speaker 3: at that number and you're like, I'm I pass that number, baby, Yeah,

729
00:43:02,200 --> 00:43:04,600
Speaker 3: long ago. I was at like twenty twenty five drinks

730
00:43:04,640 --> 00:43:09,000
Speaker 3: at this point, and so I'm terrified. I'm like, if

731
00:43:09,040 --> 00:43:11,240
Speaker 3: I raised the white flag on this, I'm never gonna

732
00:43:11,239 --> 00:43:14,920
Speaker 3: be able to drink again. It's gonna have to be gone.

733
00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:19,480
Speaker 3: Like I don't want to do that. And I just

734
00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:21,879
Speaker 3: kept begging the Lord. I was like, please, God, why,

735
00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:24,200
Speaker 3: like and said I was coming from a place of

736
00:43:24,239 --> 00:43:26,560
Speaker 3: being resentful towards him, like why why did you let

737
00:43:26,640 --> 00:43:27,120
Speaker 3: this happen?

738
00:43:27,120 --> 00:43:27,359
Speaker 4: Lord?

739
00:43:27,400 --> 00:43:30,200
Speaker 3: Why did you let this happen? Like I'm a believer,

740
00:43:30,520 --> 00:43:33,080
Speaker 3: how are you going to let me go through this?

741
00:43:33,880 --> 00:43:34,840
Speaker 3: Like this is awful?

742
00:43:35,160 --> 00:43:39,120
Speaker 4: You must have lied, right, like just all of those things,

743
00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:45,600
Speaker 4: and so yeah, developing a plan for her baptism on

744
00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:49,680
Speaker 4: April thirtieth, I believe it was of twenty twenty three,

745
00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:53,759
Speaker 4: and I just I couldn't do it.

746
00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:59,040
Speaker 3: I failed at my plan. This was a Saturday before

747
00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:02,759
Speaker 3: like the Sunday service, and then we found out that

748
00:44:03,360 --> 00:44:04,320
Speaker 3: it got canceled.

749
00:44:05,080 --> 00:44:08,839
Speaker 4: The baptist or rescheduled. The baptism got rescheduled, right, and

750
00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:12,120
Speaker 4: I was like home, mother hook, oh my goodness, I

751
00:44:12,160 --> 00:44:15,440
Speaker 4: have more time, and and the Holy Spirit hit me

752
00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:20,320
Speaker 4: at that point it was why are you excited about

753
00:44:20,680 --> 00:44:28,520
Speaker 4: not baptizing your daughter? Like wow, how like ridiculous? And

754
00:44:28,600 --> 00:44:31,439
Speaker 4: I think it was that day that like he got

755
00:44:31,440 --> 00:44:38,040
Speaker 4: my attention and and I was I was so like

756
00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:43,359
Speaker 4: physically in pain and so spiritually in pain that I

757
00:44:43,440 --> 00:44:46,920
Speaker 4: was excited about not baptizing my daughter. That that was enough.

758
00:44:47,320 --> 00:44:50,880
Speaker 3: That was my point of desperation, my gift of desperation,

759
00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:53,879
Speaker 3: That was all of it. My wife and I were

760
00:44:54,040 --> 00:45:00,000
Speaker 3: literally just roommates at this point, and I was drunk

761
00:45:00,320 --> 00:45:04,360
Speaker 3: on that day and I just came into the living

762
00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:06,680
Speaker 3: room and I looked at my wife and I was like,

763
00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:12,000
Speaker 3: I need help. She's like, what are you talking about.

764
00:45:12,120 --> 00:45:15,600
Speaker 3: I was like, I am fully dependent on alcohol now

765
00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:20,600
Speaker 3: and I'm scared and I can't do this alone, Like

766
00:45:21,239 --> 00:45:22,680
Speaker 3: I need help, And she's like, what do you mean

767
00:45:22,680 --> 00:45:24,759
Speaker 3: you're fully dependent? I was like, I've been hiding it

768
00:45:24,920 --> 00:45:29,440
Speaker 3: in my backpack in my office for like years or

769
00:45:29,600 --> 00:45:34,680
Speaker 3: two years or whatever it was, and she just lost it.

770
00:45:35,680 --> 00:45:38,400
Speaker 4: She was like, are you serious?

771
00:45:39,520 --> 00:45:44,720
Speaker 3: And she told me, full transparency, that she was ready

772
00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:47,080
Speaker 3: to take the kids and go to where her parents

773
00:45:47,120 --> 00:45:50,680
Speaker 3: live in Amarillo and leave me because she thought it

774
00:45:50,719 --> 00:45:54,920
Speaker 3: was hopeless. And she actually, like in Matt's podcast, said

775
00:45:55,000 --> 00:45:58,920
Speaker 3: like she had just literally she kind of hoped that

776
00:45:59,000 --> 00:46:02,719
Speaker 3: the Lord would take me because it was so hopeless.

777
00:46:04,239 --> 00:46:07,480
Speaker 2: What was she what was so if she didn't realize

778
00:46:07,480 --> 00:46:10,359
Speaker 2: it was necessarily the drinking, what did she think at

779
00:46:10,360 --> 00:46:12,479
Speaker 2: that point that you had just kind of checked out?

780
00:46:13,320 --> 00:46:18,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, so she she knew that, like I was still drinking,

781
00:46:18,520 --> 00:46:20,920
Speaker 3: because I would have the acceptable amount in front of her,

782
00:46:21,440 --> 00:46:26,040
Speaker 3: So I would say, yep, I would have whatever was

783
00:46:26,080 --> 00:46:29,360
Speaker 3: in the fridge. When she wasn't looking, I'd replace it

784
00:46:30,480 --> 00:46:32,480
Speaker 3: to make sure that that was always so it didn't

785
00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:35,080
Speaker 3: look like I was going crazy. So I had all

786
00:46:35,120 --> 00:46:40,239
Speaker 3: sorts of mechanisms of deception in place to make it

787
00:46:40,280 --> 00:46:43,560
Speaker 3: seem like, yeah, I'm just I'm just having my normal amount, right,

788
00:46:43,600 --> 00:46:49,400
Speaker 3: But relationship wise, like I fully just checked out, Like

789
00:46:49,680 --> 00:46:53,719
Speaker 3: we were not hanging out together. She was doing all

790
00:46:53,719 --> 00:46:57,960
Speaker 3: the activities with the kids. I was really short with

791
00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:01,880
Speaker 3: her about pretty much everything because I really thought that

792
00:47:02,080 --> 00:47:04,480
Speaker 3: she was nagging because she would just ask me to

793
00:47:04,560 --> 00:47:10,120
Speaker 3: do things, and I would see it as like she's suspicious,

794
00:47:10,160 --> 00:47:13,239
Speaker 3: she's like trying to, you know, get me, and she's snagging,

795
00:47:14,120 --> 00:47:16,719
Speaker 3: you know, all of those things, and so it just

796
00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:20,120
Speaker 3: caused a real divide between us, and I think she

797
00:47:20,320 --> 00:47:23,439
Speaker 3: just was like she resolved in her heart, like I'm

798
00:47:23,480 --> 00:47:26,040
Speaker 3: not going to be his mother. I'm not going to

799
00:47:26,160 --> 00:47:29,120
Speaker 3: nag him. I'm just gonna let it be and I'm

800
00:47:29,160 --> 00:47:32,440
Speaker 3: just gonna pray. And that's what she did for like

801
00:47:32,880 --> 00:47:36,400
Speaker 3: the last several months. Is she just all right wherever

802
00:47:36,440 --> 00:47:39,560
Speaker 3: this goes, Like I can't say anything to him without

803
00:47:39,640 --> 00:47:42,920
Speaker 3: him snapping at me or giving me pushback in a

804
00:47:42,960 --> 00:47:46,440
Speaker 3: rude way. Right, he just thinks that I'm trying to

805
00:47:46,440 --> 00:47:47,920
Speaker 3: tell him what to do all the time, Like I'm

806
00:47:47,960 --> 00:47:50,440
Speaker 3: just gonna take a step back and I'm gonna give

807
00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:54,239
Speaker 3: it to the Lord. And yeah, that's that's where she was,

808
00:47:54,280 --> 00:47:56,040
Speaker 3: just like, I I'm losing hope here.

809
00:47:56,480 --> 00:47:59,239
Speaker 4: I don't know what. I can't do anything with him.

810
00:47:59,440 --> 00:48:03,160
Speaker 3: He's got to the choice, right, And so yeah, that's

811
00:48:03,239 --> 00:48:04,759
Speaker 3: that's where the Lord stepped in.

812
00:48:06,160 --> 00:48:09,080
Speaker 2: And then it's it's funny because that's that's that's exactly

813
00:48:09,080 --> 00:48:11,600
Speaker 2: where my wife was, right. She's like, I'm not your babysitter,

814
00:48:11,920 --> 00:48:15,759
Speaker 2: I'm not your mom, I'm not like and and I

815
00:48:15,800 --> 00:48:18,759
Speaker 2: think and and I think I'm gonna I think when

816
00:48:18,760 --> 00:48:21,960
Speaker 2: you and I talked on the phone prior to this,

817
00:48:22,960 --> 00:48:24,600
Speaker 2: I think there's an episode that I want to do

818
00:48:24,680 --> 00:48:28,480
Speaker 2: with the wives, right, yeah, because I think, you know,

819
00:48:29,680 --> 00:48:32,400
Speaker 2: there may be even might be some people listening to

820
00:48:32,480 --> 00:48:34,759
Speaker 2: this who are like, what do you do as a

821
00:48:34,760 --> 00:48:37,160
Speaker 2: family member? And I get that question a lot, And

822
00:48:37,200 --> 00:48:39,200
Speaker 2: in fact, I was going to write a chapter on

823
00:48:39,239 --> 00:48:40,920
Speaker 2: that in the book, and then I took it out

824
00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:43,919
Speaker 2: because I'm like, I I don't think there's no there's

825
00:48:43,960 --> 00:48:47,680
Speaker 2: a one size fits all, right. Some people might respond

826
00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:52,239
Speaker 2: to a type of quote unquote intervention some but some

827
00:48:52,280 --> 00:48:55,319
Speaker 2: people like me and like you, like that would be

828
00:48:55,360 --> 00:48:59,120
Speaker 2: the worst thing to do, right, And so it was

829
00:48:59,480 --> 00:49:02,280
Speaker 2: my wife. Your wife just had to say, I'm giving

830
00:49:02,320 --> 00:49:04,880
Speaker 2: it to the Lord, right, And I think everyone in

831
00:49:04,880 --> 00:49:05,960
Speaker 2: a sense I has to give it to the Lord.

832
00:49:06,040 --> 00:49:06,200
Speaker 4: Right.

833
00:49:06,520 --> 00:49:09,520
Speaker 2: But what that looked like practically with your wife and

834
00:49:09,560 --> 00:49:13,239
Speaker 2: my wife is we just have to let them give

835
00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:16,759
Speaker 2: themselves over, right, like give it, give themselves over to it,

836
00:49:17,520 --> 00:49:19,880
Speaker 2: and in Holy Spirit, you're just going to have to work.

837
00:49:20,280 --> 00:49:22,400
Speaker 2: And so for me it was on a beach in Miami,

838
00:49:22,800 --> 00:49:26,839
Speaker 2: and for you it was you know, the baptism that

839
00:49:26,880 --> 00:49:30,600
Speaker 2: didn't happen, right, So so take us to what what

840
00:49:30,719 --> 00:49:32,080
Speaker 2: happened from that point.

841
00:49:33,000 --> 00:49:39,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, So essentially, after I confessed to all of that,

842
00:49:41,200 --> 00:49:45,319
Speaker 3: she she just kind of gave me like an ultimatum.

843
00:49:45,640 --> 00:49:48,440
Speaker 4: Really, she said, prove it, you know.

844
00:49:49,000 --> 00:49:52,279
Speaker 3: And because I had done it numerous times, I'd said,

845
00:49:52,320 --> 00:49:54,839
Speaker 3: like I can stop drinking and then I go back

846
00:49:54,880 --> 00:49:56,960
Speaker 3: to it. Oh, I can stop drinking, go back to

847
00:49:58,040 --> 00:50:04,680
Speaker 3: and because I had gone so far with it, like

848
00:50:05,719 --> 00:50:08,520
Speaker 3: looking back, you know, as the whole don't raise the

849
00:50:08,520 --> 00:50:12,000
Speaker 3: white flag like that was the enemy, tell me like

850
00:50:12,400 --> 00:50:15,520
Speaker 3: not to get help because you know you're ever gonna

851
00:50:15,560 --> 00:50:17,680
Speaker 3: have it, but then you're.

852
00:50:17,520 --> 00:50:19,680
Speaker 4: Never gonna have it again. But then I was like, man,

853
00:50:20,800 --> 00:50:26,080
Speaker 4: like what if? What if? Life is so much better

854
00:50:26,320 --> 00:50:31,440
Speaker 4: without it? Also like I care about my family and

855
00:50:31,520 --> 00:50:34,560
Speaker 4: I want to be restored, I want to be healed,

856
00:50:34,760 --> 00:50:38,960
Speaker 4: I want to put in the work, and so I, yeah,

857
00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:44,360
Speaker 4: I went to the hospital. They gave me some medicine.

858
00:50:43,920 --> 00:50:46,560
Speaker 1: That night or the next day or what the next day.

859
00:50:46,719 --> 00:50:50,160
Speaker 3: I tried. I tried to go without it, and I couldn't.

860
00:50:50,160 --> 00:50:53,839
Speaker 3: I had the shakes so bad. And I even went

861
00:50:53,880 --> 00:50:57,120
Speaker 3: and got a six pack after I confessed, because I

862
00:50:57,160 --> 00:51:00,040
Speaker 3: was like, I'm going to die, Like it was so

863
00:51:00,040 --> 00:51:03,479
Speaker 3: so bad. The withdrawals were so bad that I could

864
00:51:03,480 --> 00:51:09,000
Speaker 3: not function, so I had to like appease it. And yeah,

865
00:51:09,120 --> 00:51:12,960
Speaker 3: after that, it was May first that I was like,

866
00:51:13,000 --> 00:51:13,920
Speaker 3: I'm going to the hospital.

867
00:51:14,320 --> 00:51:14,880
Speaker 4: No more of this.

868
00:51:15,000 --> 00:51:17,640
Speaker 3: I got to have more alcohol to help get me

869
00:51:17,680 --> 00:51:18,480
Speaker 3: off of alcohol.

870
00:51:18,840 --> 00:51:23,640
Speaker 4: That makes no sense. So I went to the hospital.

871
00:51:23,719 --> 00:51:27,560
Speaker 3: They gave me alcohol, you know, curb your craving type medicine.

872
00:51:27,560 --> 00:51:30,759
Speaker 3: I forgot what it's called. They calmed my blood pressure down.

873
00:51:30,840 --> 00:51:33,520
Speaker 3: It was two hundred over something. I'm also a type

874
00:51:33,520 --> 00:51:36,200
Speaker 3: one diabetic. I've been a type one diabetic for thirty

875
00:51:36,520 --> 00:51:39,640
Speaker 3: three years, and so my blood shirt was through the roof,

876
00:51:39,719 --> 00:51:41,160
Speaker 3: blood pressure through the roof.

877
00:51:41,960 --> 00:51:43,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, just everything was out of whack.

878
00:51:43,880 --> 00:51:46,600
Speaker 3: It was terrible, but they got me on the road

879
00:51:47,280 --> 00:51:51,400
Speaker 3: to healing and then I started. I went to recovery

880
00:51:51,600 --> 00:51:55,800
Speaker 3: that that Wednesday, for the first time, broke down.

881
00:51:56,000 --> 00:51:58,400
Speaker 2: What was that like to, you know, I want to

882
00:51:58,400 --> 00:52:00,320
Speaker 2: walk people through that because I think there's probably a

883
00:52:00,360 --> 00:52:02,400
Speaker 2: lot of whether whether you have a recovery ministry at

884
00:52:02,440 --> 00:52:05,640
Speaker 2: your church like you and I do. I go to

885
00:52:05,640 --> 00:52:08,799
Speaker 2: Citizens Church, which is a plant of the Mother the

886
00:52:08,800 --> 00:52:15,000
Speaker 2: mother Ship, but you know, or maybe someone's walking into

887
00:52:15,000 --> 00:52:17,880
Speaker 2: a meeting. What was it like? Did you feel defeated?

888
00:52:17,960 --> 00:52:20,720
Speaker 2: Did you feel excited? Did you feel like, oh my gosh,

889
00:52:20,719 --> 00:52:22,319
Speaker 2: I hope no one sees me, but I know I

890
00:52:22,360 --> 00:52:24,200
Speaker 2: have to do this. What was it like walking into

891
00:52:24,200 --> 00:52:25,520
Speaker 2: that first recovery meeting?

892
00:52:26,960 --> 00:52:28,720
Speaker 4: I felt nervous.

893
00:52:29,200 --> 00:52:33,520
Speaker 3: I just I didn't know what to expect, like I

894
00:52:33,600 --> 00:52:36,960
Speaker 3: because I was so far away from accountability and walking

895
00:52:37,400 --> 00:52:40,600
Speaker 3: in community and all of those things. Like I just

896
00:52:40,800 --> 00:52:43,279
Speaker 3: was like, I don't even know what the format is

897
00:52:43,320 --> 00:52:45,400
Speaker 3: going to be, Like I don't know, you know, I

898
00:52:45,440 --> 00:52:48,359
Speaker 3: had a friend that like offered to join me, and

899
00:52:48,400 --> 00:52:52,040
Speaker 3: he did and I was thankful for that, right, But yeah,

900
00:52:52,120 --> 00:52:55,920
Speaker 3: it was It was amazing because we walked into the

901
00:52:55,960 --> 00:53:01,279
Speaker 3: sanctuary and they just started worshiping and so it was

902
00:53:01,440 --> 00:53:05,200
Speaker 3: just a worship set, which was amazing, and then it

903
00:53:05,239 --> 00:53:07,359
Speaker 3: was a message. It was kind of like a mini

904
00:53:07,640 --> 00:53:12,920
Speaker 3: Sunday service, right, So I was like, okay, what this

905
00:53:13,080 --> 00:53:15,680
Speaker 3: is awesome. And then at the end of that one

906
00:53:15,760 --> 00:53:20,560
Speaker 3: hour like mini service, they just said, hey, if you're new,

907
00:53:21,200 --> 00:53:25,000
Speaker 3: go to this room over in kids Village and they'll

908
00:53:25,080 --> 00:53:27,839
Speaker 3: chat with you about like what it looks like here.

909
00:53:27,880 --> 00:53:30,600
Speaker 3: And so we went into this little orientation room and

910
00:53:30,640 --> 00:53:33,360
Speaker 3: there was like, you know, six or seven people with me,

911
00:53:34,080 --> 00:53:36,640
Speaker 3: and they just gave a rundown of what it looks like. Hey,

912
00:53:36,719 --> 00:53:38,840
Speaker 3: this is what Wednesdays look like. It's always going to

913
00:53:38,840 --> 00:53:41,080
Speaker 3: be this format. And then you break out into like

914
00:53:41,200 --> 00:53:44,759
Speaker 3: separate rooms with separate like categories, right, so you have

915
00:53:44,840 --> 00:53:50,120
Speaker 3: your chemical addiction or non chemical addiction, or marriage or

916
00:53:50,160 --> 00:53:52,160
Speaker 3: this or that, and so they had all of these

917
00:53:52,280 --> 00:53:57,360
Speaker 3: different categories for different types of recovery ministries. And so

918
00:53:58,120 --> 00:54:01,560
Speaker 3: I on the second one up going to room twelve

919
00:54:01,680 --> 00:54:06,839
Speaker 3: with all of the chem guys. And then from there, man,

920
00:54:06,960 --> 00:54:09,839
Speaker 3: it was just people talking about like me and you

921
00:54:10,200 --> 00:54:14,080
Speaker 3: right here, it was talking about what they were stuck in,

922
00:54:14,520 --> 00:54:18,480
Speaker 3: talking about how the Lord met them there, you know,

923
00:54:18,640 --> 00:54:22,759
Speaker 3: while we were at Sinners and like and then just

924
00:54:22,880 --> 00:54:25,920
Speaker 3: like the hope that came out of it because you've

925
00:54:25,920 --> 00:54:30,160
Speaker 3: got guys like Danny Spencer who was on Matt's podcast too,

926
00:54:30,840 --> 00:54:33,839
Speaker 3: who have been sober for twenty six years, been at

927
00:54:33,840 --> 00:54:37,680
Speaker 3: the village since nineteen ninety nine. Like he thought that

928
00:54:37,719 --> 00:54:39,840
Speaker 3: he was one of those guys that could never be

929
00:54:40,000 --> 00:54:42,799
Speaker 3: accepted into the body of believers because of what he

930
00:54:42,840 --> 00:54:45,120
Speaker 3: had done, Like the Lord was mad at him. And

931
00:54:45,200 --> 00:54:48,560
Speaker 3: now this dude is telling his story and he's talking

932
00:54:48,600 --> 00:54:52,279
Speaker 3: about how drinking was everything the Lord redeemed him. Now

933
00:54:52,320 --> 00:54:54,320
Speaker 3: he gets to share that with other people who have

934
00:54:54,400 --> 00:54:57,320
Speaker 3: the same problems, and it just gives you this hope

935
00:54:57,400 --> 00:55:01,279
Speaker 3: and then it gives you this belonging of like Okay,

936
00:55:02,040 --> 00:55:05,399
Speaker 3: I'm not the only one here, right, Like how did

937
00:55:05,520 --> 00:55:07,479
Speaker 3: and then how did you like when it first came

938
00:55:07,520 --> 00:55:09,359
Speaker 3: to you at that first meet, Like when it.

939
00:55:09,640 --> 00:55:12,000
Speaker 2: Kind of came did you say like, hey, I'm JP,

940
00:55:13,280 --> 00:55:15,880
Speaker 2: and did you you know, very practically you say like,

941
00:55:16,080 --> 00:55:16,880
Speaker 2: I'm an alcoholic.

942
00:55:17,000 --> 00:55:18,080
Speaker 1: I have a drinking problem.

943
00:55:18,200 --> 00:55:19,640
Speaker 4: Like how did you?

944
00:55:19,719 --> 00:55:21,680
Speaker 1: What did you say? And how was that? We'll be

945
00:55:21,760 --> 00:55:22,520
Speaker 1: right back after this.

946
00:55:26,280 --> 00:55:30,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, So I had gone to an AA meeting like prior,

947
00:55:30,600 --> 00:55:33,640
Speaker 3: a couple of days prior, and I did that for

948
00:55:33,680 --> 00:55:34,440
Speaker 3: the first time.

949
00:55:34,280 --> 00:55:38,239
Speaker 4: And was like this is weird. I I just was

950
00:55:38,280 --> 00:55:39,520
Speaker 4: not a huge fan of it.

951
00:55:39,560 --> 00:55:43,120
Speaker 3: Because it was like, my name's JP, I'm an alcoholic,

952
00:55:43,520 --> 00:55:45,560
Speaker 3: you know, And I was like, but I don't want

953
00:55:45,560 --> 00:55:48,319
Speaker 3: to be identified as that. And then like recovery was

954
00:55:48,440 --> 00:55:51,960
Speaker 3: just like hey, the leader of that group would just say, hey,

955
00:55:52,040 --> 00:55:55,239
Speaker 3: you're new here, like tell us, tell us why you're here,

956
00:55:56,360 --> 00:55:58,920
Speaker 3: and I just was I was out with it because

957
00:55:59,520 --> 00:56:02,360
Speaker 3: I really from that point just start thinking like the

958
00:56:02,400 --> 00:56:05,480
Speaker 3: more people that know, like the bigger the safety net

959
00:56:05,480 --> 00:56:08,680
Speaker 3: for me, the bigger the buffer, right, And so I

960
00:56:08,760 --> 00:56:10,600
Speaker 3: was like, yeah, I'll let him know. And then I

961
00:56:10,760 --> 00:56:12,640
Speaker 3: just told him my story and they were like, man,

962
00:56:13,000 --> 00:56:16,640
Speaker 3: praise God for you. So thankful you're here. Like they

963
00:56:16,680 --> 00:56:20,200
Speaker 3: couldn't encourage me more. And they're like, just keep pursuing

964
00:56:20,280 --> 00:56:23,640
Speaker 3: him because he's certainly going to keep pursuing you. And

965
00:56:23,920 --> 00:56:28,120
Speaker 3: just take it day by day, right, Just don't drink tomorrow, right, yeah,

966
00:56:28,120 --> 00:56:30,960
Speaker 3: and getting the word and ask the Lord to like

967
00:56:31,040 --> 00:56:34,360
Speaker 3: reveal things about himself. And so it was just really

968
00:56:34,400 --> 00:56:38,480
Speaker 3: cool to be in there with like fellow believers who

969
00:56:38,480 --> 00:56:41,200
Speaker 3: had gone through it and they could guide you, and

970
00:56:41,520 --> 00:56:43,759
Speaker 3: they were older, and it was like that mentorship that

971
00:56:43,800 --> 00:56:46,600
Speaker 3: I was telling you I was missing, like having these

972
00:56:46,600 --> 00:56:48,600
Speaker 3: older men be able to talk to me about the

973
00:56:48,600 --> 00:56:52,920
Speaker 3: pitfalls to look out for. It was amazing and like,

974
00:56:53,440 --> 00:56:56,080
Speaker 3: you're not going to be perfect, so like lean on

975
00:56:56,120 --> 00:56:59,919
Speaker 3: the Lord for all of that, Like, don't beat yourself up,

976
00:57:00,239 --> 00:57:04,759
Speaker 3: Like just keep pursuing the Lord. Like the enemy is

977
00:57:04,800 --> 00:57:08,120
Speaker 3: going to take shame and going to hold you in

978
00:57:08,160 --> 00:57:11,520
Speaker 3: captivity with shame. So like just know that the Lord

979
00:57:11,600 --> 00:57:15,600
Speaker 3: loves you, and that's what's going to keep you going. Yeah,

980
00:57:15,640 --> 00:57:18,920
Speaker 3: it's not it's not you doing good or you doing

981
00:57:19,000 --> 00:57:21,680
Speaker 3: bad because both of those can be honestly twisted by

982
00:57:21,680 --> 00:57:24,000
Speaker 3: the enemy too. Right, you start doing good, then you

983
00:57:24,000 --> 00:57:26,240
Speaker 3: think it's all you you do bad, then you're just

984
00:57:26,320 --> 00:57:29,800
Speaker 3: like I'm a fool. Your owes suck, you know. But

985
00:57:29,880 --> 00:57:34,760
Speaker 3: if you're constantly looking to the Lord, well he doesn't change,

986
00:57:34,800 --> 00:57:35,040
Speaker 3: you know.

987
00:57:36,720 --> 00:57:39,320
Speaker 2: And so that's that's one of the reasons to you

988
00:57:39,360 --> 00:57:44,680
Speaker 2: why I'm so passionate about I'm I'm okay, right, and

989
00:57:44,760 --> 00:57:49,240
Speaker 2: I'm supportive if you will, of programs, right, and you know,

990
00:57:49,760 --> 00:57:53,280
Speaker 2: technically you and I are part of a recovery program

991
00:57:53,360 --> 00:57:56,520
Speaker 2: at our churches, right, So I'm not against programs right, right,

992
00:57:56,920 --> 00:58:01,040
Speaker 2: But if you make it only about the program, you

993
00:58:01,200 --> 00:58:03,760
Speaker 2: then become to rely on well, guess what I can

994
00:58:03,800 --> 00:58:06,640
Speaker 2: do it I've done it. Right, it becomes about you,

995
00:58:06,760 --> 00:58:09,560
Speaker 2: it about it comes about you working the program. It

996
00:58:09,600 --> 00:58:12,040
Speaker 2: becomes about you working the steps. It becomes about what

997
00:58:12,120 --> 00:58:14,480
Speaker 2: you can do right right. And I think what I've

998
00:58:14,520 --> 00:58:18,320
Speaker 2: realized and what you've realized is, like, listen, if if

999
00:58:18,360 --> 00:58:20,720
Speaker 2: I could do it on my own, Like if it

1000
00:58:20,800 --> 00:58:22,800
Speaker 2: was just about working steps, if it was just about

1001
00:58:22,800 --> 00:58:25,080
Speaker 2: working a program, I would have stopped drinking a long

1002
00:58:25,120 --> 00:58:29,360
Speaker 2: time ago, right, right, and and and for for you

1003
00:58:29,440 --> 00:58:31,640
Speaker 2: and for me, I think the Lord medicine the most

1004
00:58:31,720 --> 00:58:35,600
Speaker 2: unlikely places, right, Yeah, Like he met you as you're

1005
00:58:35,960 --> 00:58:39,920
Speaker 2: celebrating not baptizing your child. He met me drunk in

1006
00:58:39,960 --> 00:58:43,400
Speaker 2: the ocean in the wee hours of the morning in Miami.

1007
00:58:43,560 --> 00:58:46,040
Speaker 2: Like why why, all of a sudden, is that where

1008
00:58:46,040 --> 00:58:48,040
Speaker 2: the Holy Spirit broke through? I don't know, But that's

1009
00:58:48,040 --> 00:58:50,280
Speaker 2: just what he decided to do right right again, not

1010
00:58:50,400 --> 00:58:53,960
Speaker 2: against programs. You and I are technically a part of one,

1011
00:58:54,440 --> 00:58:58,400
Speaker 2: but it's but in the end, it's it's about Jesus, right,

1012
00:58:58,800 --> 00:59:01,919
Speaker 2: and those can supp and happen. He can use those.

1013
00:59:01,960 --> 00:59:05,160
Speaker 2: But let's not make it just about the program and

1014
00:59:05,200 --> 00:59:07,640
Speaker 2: about how many meetings you can go to a day

1015
00:59:07,760 --> 00:59:10,560
Speaker 2: a week or you know ninety ninety.

1016
00:59:10,440 --> 00:59:14,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's exactly what you said. Like those

1017
00:59:14,400 --> 00:59:17,720
Speaker 3: things are tools and they're great, but like the goal

1018
00:59:17,760 --> 00:59:21,880
Speaker 3: here is more of Jesus, and that's that's what then

1019
00:59:21,960 --> 00:59:26,240
Speaker 3: allows you to walk in His purpose for you. Right,

1020
00:59:26,480 --> 00:59:28,960
Speaker 3: It's it's not like what we do in us, you know,

1021
00:59:29,040 --> 00:59:32,480
Speaker 3: taking a wheel. It's like, man, the Lord has repurposed

1022
00:59:32,520 --> 00:59:34,960
Speaker 3: my life in such a way to where sobriety was

1023
00:59:35,040 --> 00:59:38,600
Speaker 3: just the first step. Like, yes, now he's got me

1024
00:59:38,800 --> 00:59:42,680
Speaker 3: on a path towards missions. I've gone on short term

1025
00:59:42,720 --> 00:59:47,560
Speaker 3: trips with my family like Egypt and Berlin, and like

1026
00:59:47,680 --> 00:59:51,000
Speaker 3: he's got me looking at leading more and doing more.

1027
00:59:51,080 --> 00:59:54,040
Speaker 3: And I'm like this was the reason. It wasn't to

1028
00:59:54,200 --> 00:59:58,760
Speaker 3: just be sober, it's to now go because Tewod Corinthians

1029
00:59:58,800 --> 01:00:01,640
Speaker 3: five seventeen through twelve twenty one tells us that we're

1030
01:00:01,680 --> 01:00:04,080
Speaker 3: a new creation, and as a new creation, we're now

1031
01:00:04,200 --> 01:00:08,320
Speaker 3: ambassadors of the message of reconciliation. So if I'm following

1032
01:00:08,360 --> 01:00:11,920
Speaker 3: that in Matthew twenty eight nineteen, like, then I'm then

1033
01:00:11,960 --> 01:00:15,280
Speaker 3: I'm now free to go tell right, instead of just

1034
01:00:15,360 --> 01:00:19,280
Speaker 3: being like, yeah, programs are great, they're great tools, and

1035
01:00:19,320 --> 01:00:22,360
Speaker 3: they get you to a point to where now you're

1036
01:00:22,960 --> 01:00:26,400
Speaker 3: following the Lord and now you're telling other people about

1037
01:00:26,440 --> 01:00:29,680
Speaker 3: what he did so that those people can then multiply

1038
01:00:30,160 --> 01:00:34,000
Speaker 3: make disciples, baptize them, you know, all the things like

1039
01:00:34,040 --> 01:00:34,720
Speaker 3: that's the goal.

1040
01:00:36,400 --> 01:00:40,400
Speaker 2: So okay, you start going to recovery at your church.

1041
01:00:41,560 --> 01:00:45,520
Speaker 2: When when did things in a sense like what was

1042
01:00:45,560 --> 01:00:49,479
Speaker 2: that first month, three months, year? You know, like what

1043
01:00:49,560 --> 01:00:51,920
Speaker 2: was that like? And when did you really start to

1044
01:00:52,000 --> 01:00:59,160
Speaker 2: feel like, Okay, I I think I think this sobriety

1045
01:00:59,160 --> 01:01:01,000
Speaker 2: thing is to take this time.

1046
01:01:01,720 --> 01:01:07,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, so the first I would say, like three to

1047
01:01:07,320 --> 01:01:11,320
Speaker 3: six months was really just following the program.

1048
01:01:11,680 --> 01:01:14,840
Speaker 4: It was I know I need to do this. I

1049
01:01:14,880 --> 01:01:15,840
Speaker 4: know this is helping.

1050
01:01:16,480 --> 01:01:20,800
Speaker 3: This is also really hard, but yeah, I need I

1051
01:01:20,840 --> 01:01:24,920
Speaker 3: need to like put in the work towards getting this

1052
01:01:25,280 --> 01:01:27,360
Speaker 3: out of the way. Like I just need to be

1053
01:01:27,480 --> 01:01:30,000
Speaker 3: obedient to that. I need to be faithful to this

1054
01:01:30,080 --> 01:01:34,000
Speaker 3: because there's a huge vacuum when that thing gets pulled out,

1055
01:01:34,840 --> 01:01:37,960
Speaker 3: and that can be filled in a number of ways.

1056
01:01:38,080 --> 01:01:41,920
Speaker 3: But like I had a counselor who told me, like,

1057
01:01:42,880 --> 01:01:47,160
Speaker 3: if you can, I mean, don't neglect time with your family,

1058
01:01:47,200 --> 01:01:50,680
Speaker 3: but try to do everything you can that will get

1059
01:01:50,720 --> 01:01:55,320
Speaker 3: you more of Jesus, like serving at the church, right,

1060
01:01:57,040 --> 01:02:01,520
Speaker 3: counseling like this, AA recovery, all of the things, you know,

1061
01:02:01,800 --> 01:02:04,640
Speaker 3: just service, going out and volunteering, doing things like that

1062
01:02:05,240 --> 01:02:09,000
Speaker 3: are going to orient you towards the Lord. And so

1063
01:02:09,480 --> 01:02:12,280
Speaker 3: that's what I just started doing. I just literally put

1064
01:02:12,280 --> 01:02:13,920
Speaker 3: my head down and I was like, I have to

1065
01:02:13,960 --> 01:02:14,960
Speaker 3: do this.

1066
01:02:14,960 --> 01:02:19,200
Speaker 4: This is helping I do like feel like I'm you know,

1067
01:02:19,480 --> 01:02:21,280
Speaker 4: growing and.

1068
01:02:21,000 --> 01:02:25,400
Speaker 3: Building that spiritual muscle, if you will. And so, yeah,

1069
01:02:25,440 --> 01:02:29,840
Speaker 3: it wasn't until like six to like nine month timeframe

1070
01:02:29,920 --> 01:02:35,400
Speaker 3: where like the Lord just removed the obsession. Like it

1071
01:02:35,560 --> 01:02:38,920
Speaker 3: took a while for me because I still fantasized about

1072
01:02:38,920 --> 01:02:39,760
Speaker 3: it in my mind.

1073
01:02:40,080 --> 01:02:47,160
Speaker 4: I still fantasized about one day maybe right maybe.

1074
01:02:47,360 --> 01:02:50,440
Speaker 3: And yeah, the Lord in that time frame six to

1075
01:02:50,520 --> 01:02:54,080
Speaker 3: nine months, I can't remember exactly when, but he gave

1076
01:02:54,120 --> 01:02:58,560
Speaker 3: me this thought of like, oh man, he is the goal,

1077
01:03:00,080 --> 01:03:04,000
Speaker 3: he is that joy, he is all of those things

1078
01:03:04,040 --> 01:03:07,640
Speaker 3: that I had alcohol on the throne of, right, Like

1079
01:03:07,880 --> 01:03:10,880
Speaker 3: he's all those things. And then I really started to

1080
01:03:11,000 --> 01:03:14,960
Speaker 3: like believe that instead of just like doing all the

1081
01:03:15,040 --> 01:03:18,560
Speaker 3: things missing alcohol, I really started to like feel his

1082
01:03:18,680 --> 01:03:23,640
Speaker 3: spirit in me say that like whoa he really is.

1083
01:03:24,680 --> 01:03:25,000
Speaker 4: I don't.

1084
01:03:25,160 --> 01:03:28,000
Speaker 3: I don't know if I've ever like felt that way

1085
01:03:28,080 --> 01:03:30,360
Speaker 3: to where I mean, I just want more of him

1086
01:03:30,400 --> 01:03:34,840
Speaker 3: and that's enough rather than like him plus something, him

1087
01:03:34,840 --> 01:03:40,560
Speaker 3: plus something. And so that's where like now my prayer

1088
01:03:41,040 --> 01:03:45,040
Speaker 3: is still very similar in that, like, Lord, stay on

1089
01:03:45,120 --> 01:03:49,760
Speaker 3: that throne in my heart, like like get any of

1090
01:03:49,760 --> 01:03:52,400
Speaker 3: those things out of the way that are trying to

1091
01:03:52,440 --> 01:03:55,840
Speaker 3: take that throne, no matter like what they are, because

1092
01:03:55,840 --> 01:03:59,200
Speaker 3: they will they'll try all the time to take my

1093
01:03:59,280 --> 01:04:03,439
Speaker 3: affections away from you, like stir my affections for you

1094
01:04:03,480 --> 01:04:07,280
Speaker 3: point me towards those things, like let your Holy Spirit

1095
01:04:07,360 --> 01:04:10,920
Speaker 3: empower that in me right instead of me trying to

1096
01:04:10,960 --> 01:04:13,360
Speaker 3: empower that in me. But like you have to stay

1097
01:04:13,360 --> 01:04:17,400
Speaker 3: on the throne, because man, when you really feel that

1098
01:04:17,480 --> 01:04:20,120
Speaker 3: holy feel the Holy Spirit in you and those fruits

1099
01:04:20,160 --> 01:04:22,520
Speaker 3: start to come out, You're like, I don't want anything

1100
01:04:22,520 --> 01:04:23,240
Speaker 3: to disrupt that.

1101
01:04:24,400 --> 01:04:26,360
Speaker 4: I don't. I don't want things to come between it.

1102
01:04:26,400 --> 01:04:30,320
Speaker 3: And I've like reading a book called Fighting Shadows, like

1103
01:04:30,600 --> 01:04:33,760
Speaker 3: talked about how we can put like it talks about

1104
01:04:33,800 --> 01:04:38,440
Speaker 3: the shadows like from an eclipse perspective, and how we

1105
01:04:38,520 --> 01:04:41,600
Speaker 3: can allow things to eclipse the light of the Lord

1106
01:04:41,680 --> 01:04:44,760
Speaker 3: shining on our lives, and like, I don't want any

1107
01:04:44,880 --> 01:04:48,480
Speaker 3: other things eclipsing the light of Him in my life.

1108
01:04:49,040 --> 01:04:52,160
Speaker 4: And so now I'm seeing it as like, yeah.

1109
01:04:52,560 --> 01:04:55,640
Speaker 2: What do you say to people who are listening to

1110
01:04:55,720 --> 01:05:00,520
Speaker 2: this who are Christians? Like, let's just even start there.

1111
01:05:00,640 --> 01:05:01,240
Speaker 1: They're Christian?

1112
01:05:01,320 --> 01:05:03,560
Speaker 4: Yeah right, yeah, but like.

1113
01:05:03,520 --> 01:05:05,680
Speaker 2: You and like me, I think if we would have heard,

1114
01:05:06,560 --> 01:05:09,520
Speaker 2: if we would have heard ourselves four years ago, right,

1115
01:05:09,760 --> 01:05:13,320
Speaker 2: we would have been like that is so foreign to me,

1116
01:05:13,480 --> 01:05:17,320
Speaker 2: this idea that Jesus isn't. Yes, I grew up hearing that, yes,

1117
01:05:17,680 --> 01:05:21,800
Speaker 2: you know whatever, But like when I want to drink,

1118
01:05:22,120 --> 01:05:25,080
Speaker 2: like that is so like I think there are people

1119
01:05:25,080 --> 01:05:29,320
Speaker 2: who are like this. Maybe maybe that's for you uber

1120
01:05:29,400 --> 01:05:32,840
Speaker 2: spiritual people. I'm not an uber spiritual person. I just

1121
01:05:32,920 --> 01:05:35,840
Speaker 2: want my beer. I just want to relax, you know,

1122
01:05:35,960 --> 01:05:40,520
Speaker 2: Like this, I don't see any world in where I

1123
01:05:40,560 --> 01:05:43,840
Speaker 2: can get to where you're at, JP or John, Like,

1124
01:05:43,920 --> 01:05:45,640
Speaker 2: what do you say to those people?

1125
01:05:47,400 --> 01:05:51,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a really tough place to be, honestly? Is that?

1126
01:05:51,680 --> 01:05:57,040
Speaker 3: Like I I was there, I would say trust that,

1127
01:05:57,360 --> 01:06:01,000
Speaker 3: like the Lord wants all of you, and I would

1128
01:06:01,040 --> 01:06:05,480
Speaker 3: just like encourage those people to like pray that the

1129
01:06:05,520 --> 01:06:11,080
Speaker 3: Holy Spirit would reveal those things right in them, because

1130
01:06:11,080 --> 01:06:14,200
Speaker 3: there there really is nothing that I can say here,

1131
01:06:15,160 --> 01:06:18,560
Speaker 3: right that's going to cause the flick of the switch. Right,

1132
01:06:18,640 --> 01:06:21,640
Speaker 3: And so I would just say that to those people

1133
01:06:21,640 --> 01:06:23,800
Speaker 3: who doubt or to those people that think that there

1134
01:06:23,960 --> 01:06:28,680
Speaker 3: is nothing actually going on, like man, take a chance

1135
01:06:28,800 --> 01:06:33,800
Speaker 3: on getting in the word and like submitting and surrendering

1136
01:06:34,120 --> 01:06:36,840
Speaker 3: and just being open to like praying that the Lord

1137
01:06:36,880 --> 01:06:40,280
Speaker 3: would reveal any sin, any besetting sin that's going on

1138
01:06:41,000 --> 01:06:45,200
Speaker 3: that is hindering your relationship with him. Because even when

1139
01:06:45,720 --> 01:06:48,720
Speaker 3: you and I are in a place that we're incurrently like,

1140
01:06:49,000 --> 01:06:52,400
Speaker 3: we should still be praying that prayer, right, because we're

1141
01:06:52,440 --> 01:06:57,080
Speaker 3: never done, yes, And so even when you have like

1142
01:06:57,480 --> 01:07:01,760
Speaker 3: experience freedom from the big ones, you still like the

1143
01:07:01,800 --> 01:07:04,560
Speaker 3: little ones are still there, right, and we still try

1144
01:07:04,600 --> 01:07:06,760
Speaker 3: to take the throne and allow them to take the

1145
01:07:06,760 --> 01:07:09,520
Speaker 3: throne and all the things when the little ones are there.

1146
01:07:10,000 --> 01:07:12,800
Speaker 3: And so it's all of it, like it's all of

1147
01:07:12,840 --> 01:07:15,440
Speaker 3: life for all of life, right, And so we just

1148
01:07:15,520 --> 01:07:20,160
Speaker 3: have to constantly be leaning into the Lord getting in

1149
01:07:20,240 --> 01:07:23,520
Speaker 3: the word, because I mean, the word reveals his character.

1150
01:07:24,040 --> 01:07:27,640
Speaker 3: And then we ask and you know, Philippians four six,

1151
01:07:27,760 --> 01:07:32,080
Speaker 3: like we supplicate, we beg, right, don't be anxious in everything,

1152
01:07:32,120 --> 01:07:34,720
Speaker 3: but in prayer and thanksgiving and supplication like make the

1153
01:07:34,760 --> 01:07:38,640
Speaker 3: request known and so like we're to beg for him

1154
01:07:38,760 --> 01:07:43,080
Speaker 3: to help us. Yeah, And so that's what I would say,

1155
01:07:43,120 --> 01:07:46,880
Speaker 3: because yeah, I don't think anybody could have told me

1156
01:07:47,800 --> 01:07:50,640
Speaker 3: like it took me going through what I went through

1157
01:07:51,240 --> 01:07:54,320
Speaker 3: for the Lord to get my attention. And so with

1158
01:07:54,400 --> 01:07:58,560
Speaker 3: that being the situation, I would just like just pray

1159
01:07:58,680 --> 01:08:00,440
Speaker 3: that the Lord would reveal things.

1160
01:08:01,760 --> 01:08:04,280
Speaker 2: You know, you know, you said that the Lord has

1161
01:08:04,280 --> 01:08:07,600
Speaker 2: removed the obsession. I would agree with that with myself

1162
01:08:07,680 --> 01:08:12,040
Speaker 2: as well, the obsession specifically about alcohol. But you know

1163
01:08:12,080 --> 01:08:14,240
Speaker 2: what I tell people is I still have a desire

1164
01:08:14,280 --> 01:08:17,880
Speaker 2: to escape, right, Like my ultimate addiction was to escapism.

1165
01:08:18,200 --> 01:08:20,360
Speaker 2: Now there was a physical like I went through a drawl, right,

1166
01:08:20,400 --> 01:08:23,240
Speaker 2: there was a physical aspect that took over, right.

1167
01:08:23,280 --> 01:08:24,240
Speaker 1: So I don't deny that.

1168
01:08:24,760 --> 01:08:27,360
Speaker 2: But what I'm saying is that at the deep root

1169
01:08:27,520 --> 01:08:29,920
Speaker 2: of what I why I was drinking. I didn't want

1170
01:08:29,920 --> 01:08:32,439
Speaker 2: to face stuff, right, And some of that goes back

1171
01:08:32,439 --> 01:08:36,479
Speaker 2: to childhood, right Like I just I wasn't a party drinker,

1172
01:08:36,560 --> 01:08:38,640
Speaker 2: I wasn't alone drinker. I was I just want to

1173
01:08:38,640 --> 01:08:41,200
Speaker 2: turn my mind off. I deserve this time alone. You know,

1174
01:08:41,360 --> 01:08:43,439
Speaker 2: everyone goes to bed. I just want to drink a

1175
01:08:43,439 --> 01:08:45,360
Speaker 2: little bit, right, Like I'm not doing anything.

1176
01:08:45,120 --> 01:08:46,240
Speaker 1: It just so.

1177
01:08:46,520 --> 01:08:50,400
Speaker 2: But so I still have this desire to escape right

1178
01:08:50,479 --> 01:08:54,479
Speaker 2: when things get tough, when I'm facing uncertainty. So my

1179
01:08:54,600 --> 01:08:58,559
Speaker 2: question to you is, well, the obsession is gone, where

1180
01:08:58,600 --> 01:09:02,160
Speaker 2: do you find do you still have that desire for escape?

1181
01:09:02,479 --> 01:09:04,720
Speaker 2: How do you fulfill that now? And how do you

1182
01:09:04,840 --> 01:09:06,960
Speaker 2: turn away and bring that to the Lord.

1183
01:09:07,840 --> 01:09:09,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a great question.

1184
01:09:09,400 --> 01:09:14,599
Speaker 3: And yes, still have the desire to relax or have

1185
01:09:14,720 --> 01:09:18,160
Speaker 3: fun because I was a big fun guy, you know.

1186
01:09:18,439 --> 01:09:22,880
Speaker 3: And so that will manifest itself in various ways now,

1187
01:09:23,080 --> 01:09:23,799
Speaker 3: which will.

1188
01:09:23,640 --> 01:09:24,240
Speaker 4: Be like.

1189
01:09:26,080 --> 01:09:29,320
Speaker 3: Doing like it'll be a battle of like, oh, you know,

1190
01:09:29,400 --> 01:09:34,160
Speaker 3: I committed to going to this like missions leadership class

1191
01:09:34,320 --> 01:09:38,600
Speaker 3: or doing this outreach training or things that I know

1192
01:09:39,760 --> 01:09:42,600
Speaker 3: through experience have gotten me more of the Lord and

1193
01:09:42,680 --> 01:09:45,599
Speaker 3: are very good things. Like I'll see it show up

1194
01:09:45,600 --> 01:09:48,679
Speaker 3: in those ways where it's like, hey, man, I mean

1195
01:09:48,760 --> 01:09:51,680
Speaker 3: this is volunteer, Like do you have to go like

1196
01:09:51,720 --> 01:09:53,920
Speaker 3: you could just relax and watch a movie?

1197
01:09:54,400 --> 01:09:55,400
Speaker 1: Right, yeah?

1198
01:09:55,560 --> 01:09:58,720
Speaker 3: Right, And it's like littler things where it's like selfishness

1199
01:09:58,720 --> 01:10:03,040
Speaker 3: with my time. Now yeah, is like a battle sometimes

1200
01:10:03,360 --> 01:10:08,760
Speaker 3: right but thankfully, Like man, now it's like I used

1201
01:10:08,760 --> 01:10:11,479
Speaker 3: to always wonder, like, man, what does it sound like

1202
01:10:11,680 --> 01:10:13,760
Speaker 3: for the Holy Spirit to be like prompting me or

1203
01:10:13,760 --> 01:10:16,000
Speaker 3: talking to me or whatever the case may be, And

1204
01:10:16,040 --> 01:10:20,280
Speaker 3: like now it's really recognizable versus it wasn't before. Now

1205
01:10:20,320 --> 01:10:24,960
Speaker 3: it's like those things that like I don't necessarily have

1206
01:10:25,080 --> 01:10:27,280
Speaker 3: to do, but I know will get me more of

1207
01:10:27,320 --> 01:10:32,840
Speaker 3: the Lord. It'll be like my flesh will say like, nah,

1208
01:10:32,960 --> 01:10:35,719
Speaker 3: you can take this one off, or you know, whatever

1209
01:10:35,720 --> 01:10:38,479
Speaker 3: the case may be, and the Holy Spirit will remind

1210
01:10:38,600 --> 01:10:41,479
Speaker 3: me like how much He's done for me and how

1211
01:10:41,560 --> 01:10:45,320
Speaker 3: much I've gotten up more of him in those things,

1212
01:10:45,560 --> 01:10:47,760
Speaker 3: and I'm like, yeah, okay, let's go do it, and

1213
01:10:47,800 --> 01:10:50,200
Speaker 3: I'll just trust him in that, go do it.

1214
01:10:50,439 --> 01:10:52,639
Speaker 4: And then he shows up and I'm like I want

1215
01:10:52,680 --> 01:10:53,160
Speaker 4: more of that.

1216
01:10:54,000 --> 01:10:57,760
Speaker 3: So you know, it's just it's I think it, you know,

1217
01:10:57,880 --> 01:11:00,639
Speaker 3: after the big thing is gone, it just like might

1218
01:11:00,840 --> 01:11:08,120
Speaker 3: just be morally neutral things that you could waste time on, yes, yep,

1219
01:11:08,200 --> 01:11:12,000
Speaker 3: and just relaxing and then you really think nothing of it,

1220
01:11:12,080 --> 01:11:17,040
Speaker 3: but you know you could spend more time praying. I

1221
01:11:17,080 --> 01:11:22,000
Speaker 3: could spend so much more time praying right, and am like, eh,

1222
01:11:22,400 --> 01:11:24,640
Speaker 3: I'll do that, or h you know, I had my

1223
01:11:24,760 --> 01:11:27,920
Speaker 3: quiet time this morning. I'm good, check that box right, right.

1224
01:11:28,120 --> 01:11:32,200
Speaker 3: So it's starting to like make the relationship a routine.

1225
01:11:32,840 --> 01:11:39,680
Speaker 3: That's that's a bent, and it's selfishness with my time sometimes,

1226
01:11:40,200 --> 01:11:42,160
Speaker 3: which that I that I have to battle against.

1227
01:11:42,160 --> 01:11:45,920
Speaker 2: Now, So two maybe three questions as we start to

1228
01:11:45,920 --> 01:11:46,439
Speaker 2: wrap up here.

1229
01:11:46,439 --> 01:11:47,639
Speaker 1: First of all, how's your throat?

1230
01:11:47,760 --> 01:11:47,840
Speaker 4: Like?

1231
01:11:47,920 --> 01:11:48,599
Speaker 1: Did it heal?

1232
01:11:48,880 --> 01:11:48,960
Speaker 4: Like?

1233
01:11:49,080 --> 01:11:50,960
Speaker 2: What was the result of all of that? Does it

1234
01:11:51,000 --> 01:11:52,360
Speaker 2: as soon as you stop drinking it?

1235
01:11:54,120 --> 01:11:55,719
Speaker 4: Yeah? Fully fully healed.

1236
01:11:56,439 --> 01:11:59,439
Speaker 3: I every once in a while, like will experience a

1237
01:11:59,439 --> 01:12:01,240
Speaker 3: little bit of I knowess in my throat, But I'm like,

1238
01:12:01,479 --> 01:12:04,080
Speaker 3: is that that's probably normal? I don't know, but I

1239
01:12:04,120 --> 01:12:07,320
Speaker 3: don't I don't experience it to where I can't sleep.

1240
01:12:07,840 --> 01:12:12,360
Speaker 3: I can have these conversations. Yeah, praise God like yeah,

1241
01:12:12,520 --> 01:12:16,880
Speaker 3: fully fully went away? And again like have taken mission

1242
01:12:16,920 --> 01:12:20,680
Speaker 3: trips now to where Man, my anxiety before going on

1243
01:12:20,720 --> 01:12:22,360
Speaker 3: those was through the roof because I was like, oh,

1244
01:12:22,400 --> 01:12:24,680
Speaker 3: what if something flares up or being a you know,

1245
01:12:24,800 --> 01:12:27,639
Speaker 3: type one diabetic or all the medical things. Like, man,

1246
01:12:27,680 --> 01:12:30,679
Speaker 3: the Lord got me through it. And so it's given

1247
01:12:30,680 --> 01:12:32,880
Speaker 3: me so much more confidence in him. And praise God,

1248
01:12:32,920 --> 01:12:34,200
Speaker 3: he healed the throat issue.

1249
01:12:34,640 --> 01:12:40,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, what how long did it take? And how has

1250
01:12:40,960 --> 01:12:44,760
Speaker 2: your relationship with your wife been restored? Because you know,

1251
01:12:45,040 --> 01:12:48,400
Speaker 2: you said it like she was on the cusp of leaving, right, Yeah,

1252
01:12:48,439 --> 01:12:52,559
Speaker 2: she was hoping that the Lord would take you. You know,

1253
01:12:52,840 --> 01:12:56,599
Speaker 2: that's that's low, right, that's a low point in your marriage.

1254
01:12:56,680 --> 01:12:59,960
Speaker 2: How did you find restoration? How are you continuing? Like,

1255
01:13:00,240 --> 01:13:02,680
Speaker 2: you know, my wife and I are still and ongoing counseling, right,

1256
01:13:02,760 --> 01:13:06,320
Speaker 2: so I don't pretend that like we're nailed it, you know,

1257
01:13:06,880 --> 01:13:08,360
Speaker 2: but how have you found restoration?

1258
01:13:08,400 --> 01:13:09,320
Speaker 1: What does that look like.

1259
01:13:11,320 --> 01:13:17,280
Speaker 3: A lot of prayer and yeah, counseling really helped a ton.

1260
01:13:17,520 --> 01:13:22,160
Speaker 3: And it was really like three months after that she

1261
01:13:22,680 --> 01:13:25,320
Speaker 3: had the realization. She was like, man, the Lord has

1262
01:13:25,360 --> 01:13:29,120
Speaker 3: forgiven me for all of my sins, for all of

1263
01:13:29,160 --> 01:13:33,360
Speaker 3: my filth, like I can forgive my husband. And she

1264
01:13:33,520 --> 01:13:38,040
Speaker 3: saw that like I was, I was now pursuing recovery.

1265
01:13:38,160 --> 01:13:40,920
Speaker 3: I was now pursuing the Lord. So like, man, it

1266
01:13:40,920 --> 01:13:44,040
Speaker 3: made me just break down. She we were on our

1267
01:13:44,080 --> 01:13:48,360
Speaker 3: way to Amarillo, where her family lives, and she was like,

1268
01:13:49,120 --> 01:13:51,840
Speaker 3: you know what, I forgive you, and I want to

1269
01:13:51,880 --> 01:13:57,240
Speaker 3: work towards like full reconciliation. And now, like, man, we've

1270
01:13:57,360 --> 01:14:01,120
Speaker 3: just experienced a you know, a really good sea of

1271
01:14:01,240 --> 01:14:05,040
Speaker 3: us being on the same team, working together, pursuing the Lord.

1272
01:14:07,120 --> 01:14:09,960
Speaker 3: But like not to go too off far off base here,

1273
01:14:10,000 --> 01:14:13,280
Speaker 3: but like after getting sober, like I went through a

1274
01:14:13,320 --> 01:14:17,320
Speaker 3: whole nother big obstacle of man, I got laid off

1275
01:14:17,400 --> 01:14:20,559
Speaker 3: from the job that I was with for forever, right,

1276
01:14:21,200 --> 01:14:24,880
Speaker 3: and I was like so scared, didn't know what to do.

1277
01:14:25,400 --> 01:14:28,960
Speaker 3: And the Lord was like, hey, start this business. Like

1278
01:14:29,040 --> 01:14:30,920
Speaker 3: you know what you're doing, You've been doing it for

1279
01:14:30,960 --> 01:14:33,760
Speaker 3: over fifteen years. Start this And like we had to

1280
01:14:33,840 --> 01:14:36,280
Speaker 3: lean on the Lord, and it was so hard for

1281
01:14:36,439 --> 01:14:41,200
Speaker 3: us in our relationship because she's has her worries about

1282
01:14:41,200 --> 01:14:46,080
Speaker 3: me providing and starting from zero, you know, building my

1283
01:14:46,120 --> 01:14:48,840
Speaker 3: own business, and like we just both had to press

1284
01:14:48,840 --> 01:14:50,960
Speaker 3: into the Lord, press into the Lord trust the Lord

1285
01:14:51,040 --> 01:14:53,880
Speaker 3: trust the Lord trust the Lord. And it seemed like

1286
01:14:54,560 --> 01:14:57,080
Speaker 3: almost like that resentfulness almost kind of crept in again,

1287
01:14:57,160 --> 01:15:00,559
Speaker 3: Like Lord, you got me out of alcohol, only to

1288
01:15:00,680 --> 01:15:03,559
Speaker 3: then go through like being laid off and then like

1289
01:15:03,720 --> 01:15:06,240
Speaker 3: starting a job and not knowing where the next paycheck

1290
01:15:06,320 --> 01:15:10,559
Speaker 3: is going to come from like that led to literally endurance,

1291
01:15:10,840 --> 01:15:15,040
Speaker 3: character and hope because now he showed up there too,

1292
01:15:15,120 --> 01:15:18,639
Speaker 3: So I'm like, what can't he do? Like he got

1293
01:15:18,680 --> 01:15:22,280
Speaker 3: me out of alcoholism, he saved me there, he restored

1294
01:15:22,320 --> 01:15:25,320
Speaker 3: my marriage, He saved me there. He got me to

1295
01:15:25,360 --> 01:15:28,040
Speaker 3: the point to where I was able to trust him

1296
01:15:28,080 --> 01:15:31,519
Speaker 3: with career and all of that, and now like using

1297
01:15:31,560 --> 01:15:36,479
Speaker 3: that to like fund missions and fund other so that

1298
01:15:36,479 --> 01:15:38,600
Speaker 3: that being the goal. I'm like, oh my goodness, Like

1299
01:15:39,120 --> 01:15:40,920
Speaker 3: if I could just step back and look at what

1300
01:15:41,040 --> 01:15:42,320
Speaker 3: he has going on, like.

1301
01:15:42,320 --> 01:15:46,480
Speaker 4: Why would I worry at all? Right? Right, but it's

1302
01:15:46,520 --> 01:15:47,320
Speaker 4: crazy to see.

1303
01:15:47,439 --> 01:15:52,800
Speaker 3: But it's all been through like stretching, pulling, growing, like

1304
01:15:52,880 --> 01:15:56,000
Speaker 3: building more capacity and faith in him and just being like, man,

1305
01:15:56,320 --> 01:16:00,639
Speaker 3: he's it, Like you know this. If this fails tomorrow,

1306
01:16:00,760 --> 01:16:04,200
Speaker 3: I still got him and that's more than enough. And

1307
01:16:04,240 --> 01:16:07,400
Speaker 3: I think that that's what's really helped her our marriage

1308
01:16:07,640 --> 01:16:11,439
Speaker 3: just really grow, is that like I can look at

1309
01:16:11,439 --> 01:16:14,960
Speaker 3: her and say, hey, when you're worried, just know that,

1310
01:16:15,240 --> 01:16:17,800
Speaker 3: like I am pursuing the Lord. The Lord has me,

1311
01:16:17,960 --> 01:16:21,559
Speaker 3: but I am not your god right and you are

1312
01:16:21,560 --> 01:16:24,360
Speaker 3: not mine. And we can trust the Lord with our

1313
01:16:24,400 --> 01:16:26,200
Speaker 3: situation because he loves us both.

1314
01:16:27,640 --> 01:16:28,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, So.

1315
01:16:30,000 --> 01:16:32,880
Speaker 2: What's your final piece of advice for someone who's listening

1316
01:16:32,880 --> 01:16:35,680
Speaker 2: to this, who's like, JP, I'm you, I'm where you

1317
01:16:35,720 --> 01:16:37,519
Speaker 2: were in twenty twenty one.

1318
01:16:38,560 --> 01:16:42,920
Speaker 3: Man, I would say that despite the way things look

1319
01:16:43,040 --> 01:16:48,280
Speaker 3: right now, like there is absolute hope and Jesus is

1320
01:16:48,520 --> 01:16:51,519
Speaker 3: so much better. And I know, like you think you're

1321
01:16:51,560 --> 01:16:55,360
Speaker 3: losing your best friend, but you're you're gaining the ultimate

1322
01:16:55,400 --> 01:16:59,960
Speaker 3: friend in Jesus. Like, and that's like again, just hard.

1323
01:17:00,320 --> 01:17:03,640
Speaker 3: It's hard to hear, it's hard to think, like and

1324
01:17:03,640 --> 01:17:06,400
Speaker 3: and they may think and they may be you know,

1325
01:17:06,600 --> 01:17:10,160
Speaker 3: being lied to by the enemy and shame and all

1326
01:17:10,200 --> 01:17:12,640
Speaker 3: the things. Man, I can't I can't confess this, but

1327
01:17:13,760 --> 01:17:15,960
Speaker 3: like you would be surprised at what the Holy Spirit

1328
01:17:16,000 --> 01:17:19,920
Speaker 3: can do in people's hearts, you know, like you think

1329
01:17:19,960 --> 01:17:21,880
Speaker 3: that you have to deal with all of this on

1330
01:17:21,920 --> 01:17:25,880
Speaker 3: your own, you don't, like he is the helper and

1331
01:17:25,920 --> 01:17:29,160
Speaker 3: trust me when I say he helps. So yes, don't

1332
01:17:29,160 --> 01:17:36,120
Speaker 3: think it's impossible, don't think that nobody will understand, reach out, confess,

1333
01:17:36,520 --> 01:17:40,040
Speaker 3: do the things, and trust that the Lord has you right, like,

1334
01:17:41,040 --> 01:17:45,080
Speaker 3: pursue recovery right, because there's so much more there. There's

1335
01:17:45,080 --> 01:17:47,519
Speaker 3: so much more fulfillment in the Lord than there was

1336
01:17:48,160 --> 01:17:51,600
Speaker 3: in this as John Piper puts it, mud pies in

1337
01:17:51,640 --> 01:17:55,320
Speaker 3: the slums, Like that is what we settle for when

1338
01:17:55,400 --> 01:17:59,080
Speaker 3: alcohol is on the throne, is mud pies in the slums. Like,

1339
01:17:59,200 --> 01:18:03,040
Speaker 3: the Lord is much better. And so I would just say, like,

1340
01:18:03,200 --> 01:18:06,200
Speaker 3: it's not impossible. The Lord has you. The Lord loves you.

1341
01:18:07,680 --> 01:18:10,120
Speaker 3: While we were at sinners, he died for us, like

1342
01:18:10,360 --> 01:18:13,040
Speaker 3: he loves us, and we can believe that, we can

1343
01:18:13,080 --> 01:18:14,479
Speaker 3: believe him.

1344
01:18:15,040 --> 01:18:15,320
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1345
01:18:15,920 --> 01:18:18,400
Speaker 2: You know what I tell people is I guarantee you

1346
01:18:18,840 --> 01:18:21,639
Speaker 2: that if you make this decision, you make this leap,

1347
01:18:22,439 --> 01:18:25,640
Speaker 2: if you follow the conviction of the Holy Spirit, you

1348
01:18:25,680 --> 01:18:28,680
Speaker 2: will get the best life possible. Not the easiest, but

1349
01:18:28,760 --> 01:18:31,360
Speaker 2: you will get the best life possible. Right, Yeah, you

1350
01:18:31,400 --> 01:18:34,519
Speaker 2: had difficulties even after quit and drinking those three six

1351
01:18:34,560 --> 01:18:37,880
Speaker 2: months out, Like the first little period after I stopped drinking,

1352
01:18:37,920 --> 01:18:39,400
Speaker 2: it sucked, guys, Like, I'm.

1353
01:18:39,280 --> 01:18:39,880
Speaker 4: Not gonna lie.

1354
01:18:40,240 --> 01:18:42,080
Speaker 1: It's hard, you know what I mean.

1355
01:18:42,560 --> 01:18:45,360
Speaker 2: Like you took away my coping mechanism, you took away

1356
01:18:45,479 --> 01:18:49,559
Speaker 2: something that my body had become addicted to physically, right, Like, yeah,

1357
01:18:49,680 --> 01:18:53,080
Speaker 2: it's not easy, right, I'm not going to pretend and

1358
01:18:53,439 --> 01:18:55,639
Speaker 2: while Jesus works miracles, and there are some people who

1359
01:18:55,800 --> 01:18:59,400
Speaker 2: maybe it's it's miraculous, like great, not my experience, not

1360
01:18:59,479 --> 01:19:02,360
Speaker 2: JP's experience, right, yeah, but I can tell you that

1361
01:19:03,000 --> 01:19:06,200
Speaker 2: the best life is waiting for you on the other

1362
01:19:06,360 --> 01:19:09,280
Speaker 2: side of that, and I'm a testament to that and

1363
01:19:09,400 --> 01:19:11,240
Speaker 2: JP is a testament to that as well.

1364
01:19:11,560 --> 01:19:11,840
Speaker 1: JP.

1365
01:19:12,320 --> 01:19:15,479
Speaker 2: Thank you, Thank you so much for your candor, your

1366
01:19:15,560 --> 01:19:19,160
Speaker 2: radical vulnerability, for opening up, for being honest, for just

1367
01:19:19,160 --> 01:19:22,400
Speaker 2: taking this on us on this journey with you. Really

1368
01:19:22,439 --> 01:19:23,880
Speaker 2: appreciate you, brother, Love you, man.

1369
01:19:24,520 --> 01:19:25,599
Speaker 4: Yeah, I love you too, man.

1370
01:19:25,640 --> 01:19:30,200
Speaker 3: Thanks for the opportunity and I mean revelation twelve eleven. Right,

1371
01:19:30,680 --> 01:19:33,240
Speaker 3: we overcome the enemy the blood of Lamb and the

1372
01:19:33,240 --> 01:19:35,800
Speaker 3: word of our testimony. So like as many people as

1373
01:19:35,840 --> 01:19:38,000
Speaker 3: we can share it with, like, let's go.

1374
01:19:39,200 --> 01:19:40,400
Speaker 1: Absolutely thank you.

1375
01:19:42,080 --> 01:19:46,439
Speaker 2: I absolutely love when JP said, you think you're losing

1376
01:19:46,479 --> 01:19:50,799
Speaker 2: your best friend, but you're gaining the ultimate friend in Jesus.

1377
01:19:50,880 --> 01:19:51,200
Speaker 1: Listen.

1378
01:19:52,880 --> 01:19:55,960
Speaker 2: I was doing another podcast interview with someone and I said,

1379
01:19:56,000 --> 01:20:00,320
Speaker 2: like it the first the first bit of surprise already

1380
01:20:00,400 --> 01:20:03,320
Speaker 2: can suck, right, Like you know, and I said this

1381
01:20:03,960 --> 01:20:07,480
Speaker 2: on this one as well, like you're your coping mechanism

1382
01:20:07,479 --> 01:20:10,479
Speaker 2: has been taken away, right, and I don't say that

1383
01:20:10,520 --> 01:20:13,839
Speaker 2: to discourage you. I really do say it to encourage

1384
01:20:13,880 --> 01:20:16,240
Speaker 2: you because here's the reality. And this is what the

1385
01:20:16,240 --> 01:20:19,519
Speaker 2: prosperity gets Gospel gets so wrong. It's I should say,

1386
01:20:19,520 --> 01:20:21,960
Speaker 2: it's one of the many things that the prosperity gets.

1387
01:20:22,200 --> 01:20:24,680
Speaker 2: Gospel gets wrong and is so destructive, so that the

1388
01:20:24,680 --> 01:20:28,679
Speaker 2: prosperity gospel teaches that you know, if you're doing everything right,

1389
01:20:29,240 --> 01:20:32,719
Speaker 2: that you're going to experience it's just it's just rainbows

1390
01:20:32,720 --> 01:20:36,160
Speaker 2: and butterflies and euphoria and blessings all the time. But

1391
01:20:36,240 --> 01:20:38,599
Speaker 2: what the Gospel says is in this world, you will

1392
01:20:38,600 --> 01:20:41,840
Speaker 2: have trouble. So why I make a point to talk

1393
01:20:41,880 --> 01:20:44,920
Speaker 2: to you about what it was like and paint that picture,

1394
01:20:45,000 --> 01:20:46,840
Speaker 2: realistic picture of what it was like in the first

1395
01:20:47,640 --> 01:20:51,519
Speaker 2: months of sobriety, is because you will have trouble, right like,

1396
01:20:51,600 --> 01:20:54,680
Speaker 2: you are going to have to feel and experience and

1397
01:20:54,720 --> 01:20:56,559
Speaker 2: cope with the things you don't want to feel or

1398
01:20:56,640 --> 01:21:01,200
Speaker 2: experience or cope with, right and and so that can

1399
01:21:01,320 --> 01:21:04,320
Speaker 2: feel like losing a friend because you are losing a friend,

1400
01:21:04,560 --> 01:21:07,400
Speaker 2: you are losing something that's been with you. But again,

1401
01:21:08,320 --> 01:21:11,880
Speaker 2: you're not getting the easiest or easier life as a result.

1402
01:21:11,880 --> 01:21:14,920
Speaker 2: Of giving alcohol, but you truly are getting the better

1403
01:21:15,120 --> 01:21:18,320
Speaker 2: and best life possible. And I think JP's story is

1404
01:21:18,920 --> 01:21:21,479
Speaker 2: an example of that. Right. And it's weird. I know

1405
01:21:21,600 --> 01:21:23,439
Speaker 2: it's weird, Like you're listening to this and you're like,

1406
01:21:23,479 --> 01:21:25,479
Speaker 2: I can't imagine, Like you guys are saying stuff that

1407
01:21:25,600 --> 01:21:28,719
Speaker 2: so sounds so uber spiritual and so spiritual, Like I

1408
01:21:28,760 --> 01:21:31,800
Speaker 2: like that just just not even attracted to that, right,

1409
01:21:31,880 --> 01:21:35,320
Speaker 2: And I would say that's part of the blinders that

1410
01:21:35,360 --> 01:21:37,280
Speaker 2: the enemy is put on your eyes. That's part of

1411
01:21:37,320 --> 01:21:40,240
Speaker 2: what the sin nature has done to you as it

1412
01:21:40,280 --> 01:21:45,840
Speaker 2: takes over. But as you start practicing the presence of

1413
01:21:45,880 --> 01:21:47,800
Speaker 2: God right, practicing the presence of God right, that's a

1414
01:21:47,800 --> 01:21:53,679
Speaker 2: great book. Is you will start your affections will start

1415
01:21:53,720 --> 01:21:56,280
Speaker 2: to be changed. And I know that seems like it's

1416
01:21:56,280 --> 01:21:58,680
Speaker 2: so far off, but it will happen. I'm telling you

1417
01:21:58,680 --> 01:22:01,400
Speaker 2: it will happen. That's why talk about the four steps abiding,

1418
01:22:01,880 --> 01:22:05,320
Speaker 2: finding your true identity, radical, vulnerability, and obedience. It's how

1419
01:22:05,400 --> 01:22:10,080
Speaker 2: those affections are stirred and change. Listen, I love you all.

1420
01:22:10,200 --> 01:22:12,640
Speaker 2: If you have any thoughts or comments or questions, go

1421
01:22:12,640 --> 01:22:15,559
Speaker 2: to christianlcoholic dot com Christianlcoholic dot com. There's a form

1422
01:22:15,560 --> 01:22:17,080
Speaker 2: that you can fill out. So many of you have

1423
01:22:17,479 --> 01:22:20,160
Speaker 2: and I've love talking to you some of you as well.

1424
01:22:21,120 --> 01:22:24,520
Speaker 2: As always, please check out life audio dot com. Lifeudio

1425
01:22:24,560 --> 01:22:28,519
Speaker 2: dot com is the partner that makes this podcast possible.

1426
01:22:28,680 --> 01:22:32,320
Speaker 2: So grateful and so thankful for them. So grateful and

1427
01:22:32,360 --> 01:22:33,120
Speaker 2: thankful for JP.

1428
01:22:33,720 --> 01:22:35,599
Speaker 1: Love you all. We'll see you next time.