1 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:07,080 Speaker 1: Welcome to Inside the Epicenter weekend edition with New York 2 00:00:07,080 --> 00:00:10,000 Speaker 1: Times bestselling author and Mid East expert Joel C. 3 00:00:10,400 --> 00:00:11,000 Speaker 2: Rosenberg. 4 00:00:11,480 --> 00:00:13,960 Speaker 1: This is a radio program of the Joshua Fund, a 5 00:00:14,040 --> 00:00:17,439 Speaker 1: ministry founded by Joel and his wife Lynn that's dedicated 6 00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:21,600 Speaker 1: to blessing Israel and her neighbors in the name of Jesus. 7 00:00:22,239 --> 00:00:24,400 Speaker 1: This is a program where we don't just talk about 8 00:00:24,400 --> 00:00:27,320 Speaker 1: faith in current events. We dive right into the spiritual 9 00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:29,280 Speaker 1: pulse of the Middle East and the God who is 10 00:00:29,360 --> 00:00:33,200 Speaker 1: moving so powerfully in it. Every week we unpack the headlines, 11 00:00:33,240 --> 00:00:35,600 Speaker 1: the prophecies, and the hope of Christ that's rising in 12 00:00:35,680 --> 00:00:39,879 Speaker 1: a region so often misunderstood because what happens in the 13 00:00:39,880 --> 00:00:45,480 Speaker 1: Epicenter doesn't stay there. It's aftershocks ripple across the world. Today, 14 00:00:45,520 --> 00:00:49,720 Speaker 1: we're featuring a fascinating and deeply important conversation about Israel, 15 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:53,720 Speaker 1: Bible prophecy, and the future of the Church's relationship with 16 00:00:53,760 --> 00:00:57,560 Speaker 1: the Jewish people. In this special edition, Joel Rosenberg sits 17 00:00:57,600 --> 00:01:02,360 Speaker 1: down with influential evangelical pasths and former Southern Baptist Convention 18 00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:06,360 Speaker 1: president J. D. Greer. They discussed one of the most 19 00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:11,920 Speaker 1: controversial questions facing modern Christianity. Is God finished with Israel 20 00:01:12,040 --> 00:01:14,680 Speaker 1: or does the Bible still preach that He has a 21 00:01:14,720 --> 00:01:19,759 Speaker 1: prophetic future for the Jewish people. Together, they unpack Revelation 22 00:01:19,959 --> 00:01:23,560 Speaker 1: chapter seven, Romans chapter eleven, the rise of replacement theology 23 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:28,160 Speaker 1: inside parts of the evangelical church, and why many pastors 24 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:34,640 Speaker 1: today avoid teaching Bible prophecy altogether. Let's join Joel and 25 00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:36,080 Speaker 1: pastor JD. Greer. 26 00:01:39,959 --> 00:01:40,199 Speaker 2: JD. 27 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:42,880 Speaker 3: Greer, thank you so much for joining me, joining us 28 00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:44,240 Speaker 3: on inside the epicenter. 29 00:01:44,280 --> 00:01:45,360 Speaker 2: It's an honor to be with you. 30 00:01:45,440 --> 00:01:48,600 Speaker 3: I look forward to breaking bread and having some coffee 31 00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:50,160 Speaker 3: together face to face at some point. 32 00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:52,400 Speaker 2: But I really appreciate you coming on the podcast. 33 00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:55,200 Speaker 3: But where we want, really want to start as a 34 00:01:55,240 --> 00:01:58,280 Speaker 3: message that you gave a couple months ago in a 35 00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:01,480 Speaker 3: series you're doing on teaching through rev and you were 36 00:02:01,480 --> 00:02:05,639 Speaker 3: in Revelation seven and you started the message by verses 37 00:02:05,720 --> 00:02:08,400 Speaker 3: nine through seventeen and talking about the great multitude that 38 00:02:08,600 --> 00:02:13,840 Speaker 3: nobody could count. These are people who got saved dramatically, miraculously, 39 00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:16,000 Speaker 3: beautifully during the tribulation. 40 00:02:16,880 --> 00:02:17,120 Speaker 1: Yeah. 41 00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:19,720 Speaker 4: Well, yeah, I laid that out in the message, you know, 42 00:02:19,800 --> 00:02:22,800 Speaker 4: in some detail and footnotes, and you know on our 43 00:02:22,840 --> 00:02:25,639 Speaker 4: podcast here I won't get into all the granular detail there, 44 00:02:25,680 --> 00:02:28,560 Speaker 4: but there's a general approach that people have toward the 45 00:02:28,600 --> 00:02:34,880 Speaker 4: Bible where sometimes people will replace every reference to Israel 46 00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:39,280 Speaker 4: in the New Testament with the Church, believing that Israel's 47 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:42,400 Speaker 4: their time as ethnic Jews. That time is over and 48 00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:45,079 Speaker 4: it ended essentially with the resurrection of Jesus and the 49 00:02:45,080 --> 00:02:47,359 Speaker 4: coming of the Spirit, and now the Church we are 50 00:02:47,400 --> 00:02:50,560 Speaker 4: the new Israel. And certainly, certainly in the New Testament, 51 00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:54,680 Speaker 4: there are you know, places where you know, in whatever way, 52 00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:58,080 Speaker 4: we are receiving the covenants that God gave to Israel, 53 00:02:58,160 --> 00:03:00,920 Speaker 4: and they are spiritualized in a sense. But I mean, 54 00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:04,240 Speaker 4: there is so much biblical data, Joel that tells us 55 00:03:04,320 --> 00:03:06,920 Speaker 4: that God still has a future for his people, his 56 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:10,480 Speaker 4: literal people, meaning the Jews, you know, I mean, whether 57 00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:15,240 Speaker 4: we're talking about Romans eleven, where Paul actually very clearly says, hey, 58 00:03:15,320 --> 00:03:19,200 Speaker 4: this is you know, if the Jewish non recognition of 59 00:03:19,320 --> 00:03:22,880 Speaker 4: Jesus led to such a massive expansion of the Gospel 60 00:03:23,080 --> 00:03:26,440 Speaker 4: in the gentile world, and Paul's premise here is God 61 00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:28,440 Speaker 4: had promised to use the Jewish people as a blessing 62 00:03:28,480 --> 00:03:31,160 Speaker 4: to the world. He says, if even the rejection leads 63 00:03:31,160 --> 00:03:35,080 Speaker 4: to gentile salvation, how much more when they embrace well 64 00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:37,480 Speaker 4: the apostle. John in Revelation is picking up on that, 65 00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:40,200 Speaker 4: and he is saying, Yeah, we're in an era right 66 00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:42,760 Speaker 4: now where where Jewish people are at least not leading 67 00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:45,880 Speaker 4: the way. When you know, when it comes to world evangelization, 68 00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:48,520 Speaker 4: there's a lot of great things out there, like you know, 69 00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:51,160 Speaker 4: what you recognize here and what you represent, but you know, 70 00:03:51,280 --> 00:03:53,040 Speaker 4: I mean we're still in an era where there's a 71 00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:55,040 Speaker 4: lot of gentile leadership the church. He's like, imagine what 72 00:03:55,080 --> 00:03:57,680 Speaker 4: will happen when when this leans in and John basically 73 00:03:57,760 --> 00:04:00,680 Speaker 4: describes that these two prophecies line up, and so he's 74 00:04:00,680 --> 00:04:04,080 Speaker 4: going through and I realized, I mean, everybody reads parts 75 00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:05,320 Speaker 4: of Revelation is symbolic. 76 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:06,080 Speaker 2: I mean you have to. 77 00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:11,000 Speaker 4: But you know, when John talks about this world evangelization 78 00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:14,720 Speaker 4: and he gives and he actually list out the tribes, 79 00:04:15,440 --> 00:04:17,960 Speaker 4: I mean, I wouldn't know, Joel, how if you were 80 00:04:17,960 --> 00:04:21,000 Speaker 4: trying to say, I'm actually talking about ethnic What clearer 81 00:04:21,080 --> 00:04:23,680 Speaker 4: way could you do that than than to actually list 82 00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:26,039 Speaker 4: out those sort of things. And so you know, I 83 00:04:26,080 --> 00:04:28,320 Speaker 4: tie all that back to one of the little biblical 84 00:04:28,360 --> 00:04:31,560 Speaker 4: piece of data that's really important is acts one. You know, 85 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:35,000 Speaker 4: here you got Jesus getting ready to ascend to heaven, 86 00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:37,680 Speaker 4: and he gives what we call the Great Commission, and 87 00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:40,040 Speaker 4: you will be, you know, my witness in Jerusalem. 88 00:04:40,120 --> 00:04:40,520 Speaker 2: Judea. 89 00:04:40,920 --> 00:04:42,720 Speaker 4: Well it says it right before that, as they're all 90 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:46,320 Speaker 4: standing there on the hillside, Jesus is resurrected and they're like, hey, 91 00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:49,719 Speaker 4: will you at this time restore the kingdom to Israel, which, 92 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:53,599 Speaker 4: if nothing else, tells you that after hearing Jesus teach 93 00:04:53,640 --> 00:04:56,280 Speaker 4: on the kingdom for three years, they still thought there 94 00:04:56,320 --> 00:05:00,000 Speaker 4: was an actual future for ethnic Israel. And Jesus's response, 95 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:02,760 Speaker 4: this is actually pretty important because Jesus does not say, fellas, 96 00:05:03,279 --> 00:05:04,200 Speaker 4: do you still. 97 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:06,760 Speaker 2: Not get it right? The Church is the new Israel. 98 00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:07,640 Speaker 2: He doesn't say that. 99 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:09,320 Speaker 4: He said, he said, hey, that's not what I want 100 00:05:09,360 --> 00:05:10,760 Speaker 4: you to thinking about right now, But right now I 101 00:05:10,760 --> 00:05:13,599 Speaker 4: want you to be witnesses, and the Father will restore 102 00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:16,240 Speaker 4: this in his own time. You put all that together, 103 00:05:16,560 --> 00:05:19,480 Speaker 4: I just, without any hesitation, I respect my brothers in 104 00:05:19,560 --> 00:05:22,560 Speaker 4: Christ that you know that have a different interpretation, I 105 00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:26,080 Speaker 4: consider them friends. But without any question, the way to 106 00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:28,960 Speaker 4: make the most sense of all the biblical data is 107 00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:31,760 Speaker 4: to recognize that, yes, we as the Church, we are 108 00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:35,320 Speaker 4: the cotton continuation of Israel. But God has a future 109 00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:38,880 Speaker 4: for ethnic Israel where they are going to lead the 110 00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:41,120 Speaker 4: world in the proclamation of the Gospel. And what a 111 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:42,120 Speaker 4: day that's going to be. 112 00:05:42,600 --> 00:05:44,960 Speaker 3: And I'll contrast it and compare it a little bit 113 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:48,480 Speaker 3: with our friend John Piper. So John had me out 114 00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:52,080 Speaker 3: to speak at Bethlehem College and Seminary a number of 115 00:05:52,120 --> 00:05:56,120 Speaker 3: years ago, and we had a lovely dinner party with 116 00:05:56,880 --> 00:05:59,520 Speaker 3: his wife and some of the senior guys on the 117 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:02,680 Speaker 3: team there, and it was a great conversation, and it 118 00:06:02,760 --> 00:06:05,640 Speaker 3: was interesting because John has had a huge influence on 119 00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:09,000 Speaker 3: my life, on my sons, in my passion for the 120 00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:12,440 Speaker 3: Great Commission and for expository preaching and all kinds of 121 00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:13,000 Speaker 3: other things. 122 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:13,440 Speaker 2: Yeah. 123 00:06:14,200 --> 00:06:17,160 Speaker 3: Amen, But it was interesting because here's so, here's two 124 00:06:17,200 --> 00:06:19,760 Speaker 3: brothers who love each other and are committed to the 125 00:06:19,760 --> 00:06:21,680 Speaker 3: Great Commission. So that wasn't an issue at all. And 126 00:06:21,680 --> 00:06:24,440 Speaker 3: I said, John, I've read a lot of your writings 127 00:06:24,480 --> 00:06:28,080 Speaker 3: and I listened to your Romans series, though it was 128 00:06:28,279 --> 00:06:29,479 Speaker 3: you know a lot. 129 00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:31,560 Speaker 2: That's a long series, that's right. 130 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:33,960 Speaker 3: I haven't listened to all of it, but I definitely 131 00:06:33,960 --> 00:06:37,000 Speaker 3: listened to your Roman's one sixteen message on you know 132 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:38,880 Speaker 3: that you're not ashamed that Paul was not ashamed of 133 00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:41,120 Speaker 3: the gospel, for it's the power of God for salvation 134 00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:44,039 Speaker 3: for everyone who believes. To the jew first, also to 135 00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:47,719 Speaker 3: the Greek. I really appreciate that you believe that the 136 00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:51,000 Speaker 3: Church needs to prioritize Jewish evangelists, and you believe in 137 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:53,839 Speaker 3: a future for ethnic Israel and so forth. But I 138 00:06:53,839 --> 00:06:55,560 Speaker 3: want to ask you a question, and Jade, I want 139 00:06:55,560 --> 00:06:59,920 Speaker 3: to ask you in this context, which is john my understanding, 140 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:02,880 Speaker 3: but you clarify if I'm wrong, But is that you 141 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:07,560 Speaker 3: don't believe that current Israel has anything to do with 142 00:07:07,760 --> 00:07:10,360 Speaker 3: biblically prophetic Israel. In other words, there is a day 143 00:07:10,400 --> 00:07:13,720 Speaker 3: that that's coming, Israel will be rebuilt, but your view 144 00:07:13,760 --> 00:07:17,040 Speaker 3: is that it's not this one, not right now. And 145 00:07:17,080 --> 00:07:19,760 Speaker 3: he said yeah, because you know, if you look at 146 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:23,600 Speaker 3: the Mosaic Law, the Law of Moses, he's saying, you know, 147 00:07:23,680 --> 00:07:26,120 Speaker 3: I'll have to kick you out if you chronically disobey, 148 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:29,720 Speaker 3: but when you repent as a nation, I'll bring you back. 149 00:07:30,320 --> 00:07:32,800 Speaker 3: So you can't say that the nation came back in 150 00:07:32,840 --> 00:07:35,880 Speaker 3: full repentance or even that most people in Israel currently 151 00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:37,240 Speaker 3: are followers of Jesus. 152 00:07:37,280 --> 00:07:38,520 Speaker 2: I said, no, you're absolutely right. 153 00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:42,400 Speaker 3: But John, I would just you know, with great humility 154 00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:44,480 Speaker 3: and respect, because of my respect for you and my 155 00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:47,400 Speaker 3: love for you, I would say, you're mixing. You're on 156 00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:49,960 Speaker 3: the law of Moses, but you're not on the prophets, 157 00:07:50,560 --> 00:07:52,600 Speaker 3: and the law of the Moses right is designed to 158 00:07:52,640 --> 00:07:53,760 Speaker 3: show us we can't do it. 159 00:07:54,280 --> 00:07:55,600 Speaker 2: So Jews are all guilty. 160 00:07:55,640 --> 00:07:58,160 Speaker 3: We are all guilty, and we don't have a right 161 00:07:58,240 --> 00:07:59,960 Speaker 3: to get back to the land and have the land 162 00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:03,960 Speaker 3: and reborn for us because we're not corporately repentant. But 163 00:08:05,320 --> 00:08:08,080 Speaker 3: the prophets tell us I will bring you back, and 164 00:08:08,120 --> 00:08:10,080 Speaker 3: then you will know I will do this. And we've 165 00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:12,960 Speaker 3: seen that the exodus came. You know, most of the Jews, 166 00:08:13,160 --> 00:08:16,680 Speaker 3: children of Issual died in the desert because they weren't repentant. 167 00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:18,840 Speaker 3: But God still brought them out, still brought him in. 168 00:08:19,320 --> 00:08:21,040 Speaker 3: And then, most importantly, I would say, coming out of 169 00:08:21,040 --> 00:08:24,880 Speaker 3: the Babylonian Persian beat a Persian exile, we see the 170 00:08:24,960 --> 00:08:28,720 Speaker 3: national repentance. It's in Jerusalem as Ezra's reading the law 171 00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:32,600 Speaker 3: and he and the priests are interpreting it. For people, 172 00:08:32,920 --> 00:08:36,040 Speaker 3: and as they hear what God expects of them from 173 00:08:36,080 --> 00:08:39,760 Speaker 3: the Mosaic law. Wow, they are broken and they repent. 174 00:08:39,800 --> 00:08:43,000 Speaker 3: We will witness it in front of us. They're already 175 00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:45,640 Speaker 3: back in the land. So it's true that the law 176 00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:48,079 Speaker 3: Moses says we can't get back, but it's also true 177 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:50,839 Speaker 3: the prophet says, God says, I'm gonna bring you back 178 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:53,840 Speaker 3: in unrepentance, and then I'm going to do a great 179 00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:56,400 Speaker 3: work in you. That was a very interesting conversation. I 180 00:08:56,440 --> 00:08:58,600 Speaker 3: don't think I didn't convince them, but I said, I'm 181 00:08:58,600 --> 00:09:00,760 Speaker 3: not even here to convince you. I just I think 182 00:09:00,760 --> 00:09:03,280 Speaker 3: the point of convergence for a lot of folks, I 183 00:09:03,280 --> 00:09:05,319 Speaker 3: would say, you know, in the context of John Piper 184 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:08,000 Speaker 3: in the reform movement, I think the Great Commission and 185 00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:10,440 Speaker 3: Roman T one and sixteen is our point of convergence. 186 00:09:10,880 --> 00:09:12,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's our point of unity. 187 00:09:12,559 --> 00:09:15,320 Speaker 3: We're gonna disagree on other things, but let's at least 188 00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:16,800 Speaker 3: have that conversation from time to time. 189 00:09:16,880 --> 00:09:19,439 Speaker 2: So kind of where do you come in for. 190 00:09:19,440 --> 00:09:23,040 Speaker 3: Yourself on what's going on right now in Israel? Mess 191 00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:26,280 Speaker 3: messy that it is? How do you know, how do 192 00:09:26,320 --> 00:09:27,200 Speaker 3: you play out on that? 193 00:09:27,240 --> 00:09:28,040 Speaker 2: On these we'll we ma give. 194 00:09:27,920 --> 00:09:30,200 Speaker 4: You a couple of a couple of life things for 195 00:09:30,280 --> 00:09:32,600 Speaker 4: me that I'll want your listeners to understand. Number One, 196 00:09:33,320 --> 00:09:36,080 Speaker 4: in ninety nine subjects out of one hundred where I 197 00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:38,680 Speaker 4: disagree with John Piper, you should go with John Piper, 198 00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:38,920 Speaker 4: not me. 199 00:09:39,000 --> 00:09:40,520 Speaker 2: I just want to make that very quar Okay. 200 00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:45,280 Speaker 4: But having said that, yes, I've learned deeply from John Piper, 201 00:09:45,280 --> 00:09:48,000 Speaker 4: I've learned deeply from Anti right. I've learned deeply from 202 00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:51,080 Speaker 4: some people who disagree with me on these subjects. But man, 203 00:09:51,160 --> 00:09:54,480 Speaker 4: I just after looking for years at the biblical data 204 00:09:54,559 --> 00:09:56,360 Speaker 4: and just trying to say, let me approach this with 205 00:09:56,440 --> 00:09:59,320 Speaker 4: an open mind and an open Greek New Testament and 206 00:09:59,360 --> 00:10:02,079 Speaker 4: do honest with the Book of Revelation, it's just by 207 00:10:02,160 --> 00:10:05,440 Speaker 4: far the most compelling explanation. You know, you're right the 208 00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:07,880 Speaker 4: point of convergence, Well, I was give you my second 209 00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:10,160 Speaker 4: Then my second kind of plank is I'm one hundred 210 00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:12,520 Speaker 4: percent sure that how I see the future playing out 211 00:10:12,840 --> 00:10:14,560 Speaker 4: is not exactly the way it's going to play out. 212 00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:17,440 Speaker 4: God has always been full of surprises for his people, 213 00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:20,880 Speaker 4: and some of the prizes were the even better than 214 00:10:20,880 --> 00:10:23,440 Speaker 4: you thought. You know, when I tell my kids that 215 00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:26,080 Speaker 4: we're you know, we're gonna have a fun time, and 216 00:10:26,160 --> 00:10:27,960 Speaker 4: they think we're going out to McDonald's. But then I 217 00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:29,720 Speaker 4: tell them on the way we're headed to Disney World. 218 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:31,840 Speaker 4: You know, they don't say, Dad, you liar? You know, 219 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:33,400 Speaker 4: you know I mean, because I'm like, it's just so 220 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:33,880 Speaker 4: much better. 221 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:35,280 Speaker 2: No, You're taking them to the Kingdom. 222 00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:38,120 Speaker 4: So yeah, a lot of God's promises are like that. 223 00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:41,560 Speaker 4: But we do have to understand that God communicates in 224 00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:44,880 Speaker 4: ways that are reliable, and when he was telling the 225 00:10:44,960 --> 00:10:48,559 Speaker 4: children of Israel these things, there are certain promises that 226 00:10:49,160 --> 00:10:51,280 Speaker 4: as of yet are still even with the way they're 227 00:10:51,320 --> 00:10:53,679 Speaker 4: all fulfilled in Christ, there are certain dimensions of those 228 00:10:53,760 --> 00:10:56,640 Speaker 4: promises that we know are coming. Like I said earlier, 229 00:10:56,679 --> 00:10:59,080 Speaker 4: that doesn't mean that I, you know, automatically take their 230 00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:00,960 Speaker 4: side and every single conflict. 231 00:11:01,040 --> 00:11:03,760 Speaker 3: No, no, no, we're not talking about policies or the yeah 232 00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:06,960 Speaker 3: Benjamin Ntinyahu or whatever. We're talking about is the current 233 00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:11,199 Speaker 3: state right the beginnings of the fulfillment of the prophecies. 234 00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:16,800 Speaker 3: And prudential question, that's a prudential question. I my you know, opinion, 235 00:11:17,280 --> 00:11:19,880 Speaker 3: and my perspective is it just prudentially it looks to 236 00:11:19,920 --> 00:11:22,559 Speaker 3: me like it certainly is. I mean, you know, when 237 00:11:22,559 --> 00:11:24,760 Speaker 3: you look at you're reading the Times. 238 00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:27,040 Speaker 4: You know, I love all One guy described it, He's like, look, 239 00:11:27,080 --> 00:11:29,800 Speaker 4: we don't know when Jesus is coming back, but we 240 00:11:29,880 --> 00:11:33,280 Speaker 4: do recognize when the conductor walks out, you know, for 241 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:36,200 Speaker 4: the symphony and taps the thing and all the instrumentalists 242 00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:38,400 Speaker 4: start warming up, and you don't know when the symphony 243 00:11:38,440 --> 00:11:41,800 Speaker 4: is starting, but you know it's coming, you know. And 244 00:11:41,800 --> 00:11:44,160 Speaker 4: and when I see what God is doing there in Israel, 245 00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:47,360 Speaker 4: I see it's role in world politics. I'm like, yeah, 246 00:11:47,400 --> 00:11:49,319 Speaker 4: you know what, there's no Bible verse where I can 247 00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:52,200 Speaker 4: say and absolutely without any you know, this is exactly 248 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:54,440 Speaker 4: what's happening. But I'm like, that really looks to me 249 00:11:54,920 --> 00:11:56,720 Speaker 4: like it is the fulfillment of all these things that 250 00:11:56,760 --> 00:11:59,200 Speaker 4: are happening. So I have no problem doing that. And 251 00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:02,559 Speaker 4: that's primarily because I do recognize there is a future 252 00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:05,720 Speaker 4: in the plan of God for ethnic Israel. I will say, Joel, 253 00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:07,280 Speaker 4: and I'm sure you're very familiar with this one thing 254 00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:09,120 Speaker 4: that's interesting to me. And I actually saw this a 255 00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:11,840 Speaker 4: lot in that as I was teaching through Revelation, a 256 00:12:11,880 --> 00:12:15,920 Speaker 4: lot of our amillennial brothers, you know, which typically have 257 00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:19,800 Speaker 4: historically not recognized the future for ethnic Israel. A lot 258 00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:22,559 Speaker 4: of them have actually started to asterisk and make an 259 00:12:22,559 --> 00:12:26,280 Speaker 4: exception and say, well, I'm still a millennial. But I 260 00:12:26,360 --> 00:12:29,280 Speaker 4: believe that in the future there is still a role 261 00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:32,920 Speaker 4: for some ethnic revival of Israel, even if it's not 262 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:34,920 Speaker 4: the way that you guys are saying it will be, 263 00:12:34,920 --> 00:12:38,800 Speaker 4: because the strength of Romans eleven is so strong and 264 00:12:38,920 --> 00:12:43,120 Speaker 4: so clear, and I rejoice in that. You know, I said, 265 00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:45,600 Speaker 4: my plan is, you know, when we're sitting there in 266 00:12:45,640 --> 00:12:49,040 Speaker 4: the New Kingdom, you know, me and Joel Rosenberg and 267 00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:51,320 Speaker 4: you know, Kirk Cameron, We're gonna come rover here like 268 00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:52,800 Speaker 4: I told you this was going to happen this way. 269 00:12:53,520 --> 00:12:55,439 Speaker 4: And it's okay, we'll I'll be gracious with each other 270 00:12:55,520 --> 00:12:58,120 Speaker 4: up there, but you know, it's we can come together 271 00:12:58,320 --> 00:13:01,120 Speaker 4: on the like you said the Romans on sixteen impulse, 272 00:13:01,240 --> 00:13:03,200 Speaker 4: we can come together on the Matthew twenty four to 273 00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:06,800 Speaker 4: fourteen stuff, and we can say and our job is 274 00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:10,640 Speaker 4: to proclaim the Gospel, and ethnic Israel is a huge 275 00:13:10,640 --> 00:13:12,920 Speaker 4: part of that great commission. I believe that as we 276 00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:15,520 Speaker 4: see revival in ethnic Israel, we're going to see an 277 00:13:15,559 --> 00:13:18,880 Speaker 4: even greater impulse toward world evangelism. So that's always going 278 00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:20,520 Speaker 4: to have a special place in my heart, and it's 279 00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:21,760 Speaker 4: definitely how I read the CODs. 280 00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:30,720 Speaker 1: Right now, you're listening to Inside the Epicenter Weekend edition 281 00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:34,760 Speaker 1: with Joel Rosenberg. If this conversation is during your heart, 282 00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:38,440 Speaker 1: there's much more waiting for you in our podcast feed. 283 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:41,960 Speaker 1: More than three hundred and fifty episodes of Inside the 284 00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:48,239 Speaker 1: Epicenter available on your favorite podcast app, covering Israel, prophecy, theology, 285 00:13:48,360 --> 00:13:51,880 Speaker 1: the Arab world, and how to pray wisely and turbulent times, 286 00:13:51,920 --> 00:13:54,920 Speaker 1: and so much more. Go to Joshua Fund dot com, 287 00:13:55,000 --> 00:13:58,200 Speaker 1: slash radio and to learn more about the Joshua Fund 288 00:13:58,280 --> 00:14:02,320 Speaker 1: and how Joel and Lynner strengthen believers and offering practical 289 00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:06,720 Speaker 1: help across the region. That website again, Joshua Fun dot com, 290 00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:10,280 Speaker 1: slash Radio. Now back to Joel and JD as they 291 00:14:10,360 --> 00:14:15,240 Speaker 1: discuss how modern cultural movements are reshaping evangelical views of 292 00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:21,000 Speaker 1: Israel and why Christians must think biblically rather than ideologically 293 00:14:21,040 --> 00:14:23,320 Speaker 1: about the Jewish people and their neighbors. 294 00:14:25,960 --> 00:14:28,800 Speaker 3: Well, I love that heart and that vision. Well, and 295 00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:30,920 Speaker 3: you've given a lot to process. I'm trying to with 296 00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:33,560 Speaker 3: a limited time we have trying to ask you. I 297 00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:35,000 Speaker 3: was just going to ask you a couple more questions. 298 00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:39,640 Speaker 3: You referenced replacement theology earlier, this idea that and I 299 00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:41,720 Speaker 3: think you said it at the resurrection might have been 300 00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:43,520 Speaker 3: a you know, but either way, whether it's cruc fixion 301 00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:46,000 Speaker 3: or resurrection, that's a fairly close period of time. So 302 00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:50,800 Speaker 3: people are like, look, the Jews overwhelmingly rejected Jesus. Therefore 303 00:14:50,920 --> 00:14:54,640 Speaker 3: Jesus is overwhelming reject you know, he's rejecting a future 304 00:14:54,720 --> 00:14:57,560 Speaker 3: for national Israel. He's rejecting Jewish people, you know, a 305 00:14:57,680 --> 00:15:01,960 Speaker 3: written large and therefore the Church replaces Israel. Obviously that 306 00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:05,760 Speaker 3: anybody who believes that has already forgotten that the apostle 307 00:15:05,760 --> 00:15:09,640 Speaker 3: Paul came to faith in Jesus as a very devout 308 00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:13,480 Speaker 3: phariseacal Jew after the crucifixion and after the resurrection. So 309 00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:15,960 Speaker 3: how did he get saved if God was done with 310 00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:18,560 Speaker 3: the Jewish people? But going on and all the judge 311 00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:20,320 Speaker 3: people that get saved in the Book of actually, like, 312 00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:23,600 Speaker 3: really that doesn't fit if there's a replacement theology. But anyway, 313 00:15:24,280 --> 00:15:27,560 Speaker 3: but replacement theology or super sessionism for people like you 314 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:31,080 Speaker 3: who have an actual PhD in theology and not novel writing. 315 00:15:31,760 --> 00:15:35,640 Speaker 3: But this is a pretty widespread belief, even though I'm 316 00:15:35,640 --> 00:15:37,560 Speaker 3: not sure everybody is hard and. 317 00:15:37,720 --> 00:15:38,560 Speaker 2: Hostile about it. 318 00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:41,960 Speaker 3: Maybe it's I say, there's a soft version which is like, no, 319 00:15:42,360 --> 00:15:44,720 Speaker 3: Israel's not a thing God's done. But I don't really 320 00:15:44,720 --> 00:15:47,720 Speaker 3: know how that plays out to, you know, like absolutely not, 321 00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:50,040 Speaker 3: you know, they can't get saved. I don't know, but 322 00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:53,040 Speaker 3: this is pretty widespread in the church. Do you sense 323 00:15:53,320 --> 00:15:57,440 Speaker 3: that it's becoming more widespread? Has the war since October 324 00:15:57,480 --> 00:16:03,040 Speaker 3: seventh made it worse? What's your sense of that? Broadly 325 00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:06,360 Speaker 3: with my sense is that it's you know, for those 326 00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:08,480 Speaker 3: that are more persuaded like you are, and you know, 327 00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:11,520 Speaker 3: I'd say that it is actually a better day because 328 00:16:11,560 --> 00:16:15,120 Speaker 3: I think you're seeing some maturing in both political thought, 329 00:16:15,280 --> 00:16:18,200 Speaker 3: especially among gen Z and millennials. I mean, as they 330 00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:20,240 Speaker 3: are returning to church. That means a part of that 331 00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:22,960 Speaker 3: is they are leaving behind some of the secular progressivism 332 00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:25,720 Speaker 3: and the woke theory that has corrupted their view on stuff. 333 00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:27,440 Speaker 3: And so I actually think this is a really good moment. 334 00:16:27,480 --> 00:16:30,240 Speaker 3: And I think while that while the issue you're talking 335 00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:32,920 Speaker 3: about here may not be the initial thing they think about. 336 00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:35,720 Speaker 3: I think that is one of the implications that's that's 337 00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:38,440 Speaker 3: downstream from it. So I would actually say, in general, 338 00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:41,400 Speaker 3: this is a time to be encouraged. I also think, 339 00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:44,920 Speaker 3: and this is me playing the role of cultural commentator 340 00:16:44,960 --> 00:16:48,640 Speaker 3: and church commentator, but what your book's about and everything 341 00:16:48,640 --> 00:16:50,560 Speaker 3: you know, and yeah, you are part of trying to 342 00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:52,000 Speaker 3: connect biblical truth to. 343 00:16:51,960 --> 00:16:53,920 Speaker 2: What's happening in real life and how do we rive 344 00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:55,120 Speaker 2: for Jesus? Now? 345 00:16:55,280 --> 00:16:57,840 Speaker 4: Yeah, so you know what happened is let's say that 346 00:16:57,880 --> 00:16:59,680 Speaker 4: my generation, I'm a thorough gen x er. 347 00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:01,720 Speaker 2: If I grew I grew up, you know, I mean 348 00:17:01,800 --> 00:17:02,320 Speaker 2: left behind. 349 00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:04,720 Speaker 4: There was a reason that Left Behind series, you know, 350 00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:07,120 Speaker 4: one of the best selling Christian books of all time. 351 00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:10,320 Speaker 2: You know, just so a million copies. Amazing, Yeah, that's 352 00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:11,040 Speaker 2: quite a bit. 353 00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:13,480 Speaker 4: There was almost you know, I don't want to say 354 00:17:13,480 --> 00:17:15,040 Speaker 4: it was too far. I don't mean that, but you 355 00:17:15,080 --> 00:17:16,560 Speaker 4: know I grew up where you went to the com 356 00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:20,200 Speaker 4: about it. We had charts and you know, I'm always 357 00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:23,679 Speaker 4: hearing which politicians represent which beast on that, you know. 358 00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:26,840 Speaker 4: So and so if that was the over thing, well 359 00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:30,960 Speaker 4: we had an overreaction to that. I can't name when 360 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:33,399 Speaker 4: I was doing my series on Revelation. There is not 361 00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:35,360 Speaker 4: that many people out there who've done a really good, 362 00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:38,720 Speaker 4: responsible series on revelation. Some of the guys who taught 363 00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:40,600 Speaker 4: it that are kind of popular, they just sort of 364 00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:42,760 Speaker 4: dance on top of it and they're like, you know, 365 00:17:42,960 --> 00:17:45,520 Speaker 4: the point is Jesus wins and Satan's bad and send 366 00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:48,160 Speaker 4: you should avoid it. And you're like, yeah, there's more there, 367 00:17:48,680 --> 00:17:51,200 Speaker 4: and it's just so it's almost like you got this action, 368 00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:54,880 Speaker 4: you know, this kind of over emphasis the charts and stuff, 369 00:17:55,040 --> 00:17:56,560 Speaker 4: and then on the other side you had this reaction 370 00:17:56,680 --> 00:17:59,600 Speaker 4: to that. The truth is almost always never found in 371 00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:02,479 Speaker 4: the reaction, action or overreaction. It's always in the you know, 372 00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:04,240 Speaker 4: and getting back to what the Bible says, and I 373 00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:06,120 Speaker 4: think maybe we're about that. That's one of the reason 374 00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:08,560 Speaker 4: I want to preach revelation, not that I'm the model 375 00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:11,359 Speaker 4: for it, but just to encourage other pastors, like, hey, 376 00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:13,480 Speaker 4: there's some stuff in here that's important for the church, 377 00:18:13,840 --> 00:18:15,920 Speaker 4: and we've kind of been quiet about it for thirty 378 00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:18,359 Speaker 4: years and we need to start talking about it again. 379 00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:21,400 Speaker 2: Because every single moral. 380 00:18:21,119 --> 00:18:23,800 Speaker 4: Command in the New Testament always gets tied to the 381 00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:26,600 Speaker 4: return of Christ, and that's the one subject you rarely 382 00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:29,959 Speaker 4: hear about when when pastors are preaching and evangelical churches, 383 00:18:30,280 --> 00:18:32,480 Speaker 4: you know, they don't want to be cutely getting left behind. 384 00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:36,080 Speaker 2: Wow. Amen, amen, so let's land the plane. 385 00:18:36,760 --> 00:18:39,120 Speaker 3: But I'll say this, so one, I'm glad that you're 386 00:18:39,119 --> 00:18:42,640 Speaker 3: teaching through Revelation, and it's interesting how many pastors don't 387 00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:45,240 Speaker 3: want to teach it given that it you know, as 388 00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:48,160 Speaker 3: you pointed out every week, you know, this is literally 389 00:18:48,520 --> 00:18:50,720 Speaker 3: a book that God says I would bless you if 390 00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:52,840 Speaker 3: you read it and if you listen to it all, 391 00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:54,840 Speaker 3: let's not do it. We're not doing that. That's you know, 392 00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:59,200 Speaker 3: so like seriously right, I would liken that to Genesis twelve, 393 00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:01,639 Speaker 3: God saying, look, you're not gonna you know, if you 394 00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:04,560 Speaker 3: read the life of Abraham, Isaac Jacob, the twelve Tribes 395 00:19:04,600 --> 00:19:07,560 Speaker 3: and Israel, it's messy, but I'm gonna bless those who 396 00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:09,760 Speaker 3: bless you, and I'm going to those who curse you. 397 00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:10,560 Speaker 2: I'm going to curse you. 398 00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:13,479 Speaker 3: Think, don't I want to be on the blessing side 399 00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:15,240 Speaker 3: even while I try to figure out what does that 400 00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:18,920 Speaker 3: look like in my era? So those are two things 401 00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:22,159 Speaker 3: that seem like those are blessings God is really putting 402 00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:23,919 Speaker 3: down at the beginning, at the end, we ought to 403 00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:26,720 Speaker 3: focus on that just to wrap I guess I would 404 00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:31,760 Speaker 3: say a lot of pastors avoid Israel because they say, well, 405 00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:34,000 Speaker 3: that's political, and I don't want to be political. And 406 00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:37,960 Speaker 3: yet they spend their missions budget reaching China with the gospel, 407 00:19:38,040 --> 00:19:41,439 Speaker 3: like China's pretty political, it's that's got an evil and 408 00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:43,960 Speaker 3: actual you can I don't think it's a controversial thing 409 00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:46,280 Speaker 3: to say that's a wicked leadership. 410 00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:49,040 Speaker 2: But the people need Jesus anyway. The leadership need Jesus. 411 00:19:49,119 --> 00:19:51,560 Speaker 2: So I would say, however a person looks. 412 00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:55,640 Speaker 3: At Israel good or bad, don't they need Jesus. And 413 00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:57,600 Speaker 3: I love to do what I want to try to 414 00:19:57,640 --> 00:20:00,600 Speaker 3: do without throughout the church is and especially in the 415 00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:04,320 Speaker 3: reform world, is just keep making building friendships and saying, 416 00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:07,680 Speaker 3: could we at least be encouraging our people to love 417 00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:08,800 Speaker 3: Israel and to neighbors. 418 00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:10,960 Speaker 2: I mean, we're very both and and I don't see 419 00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:11,800 Speaker 2: that enough. 420 00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:14,320 Speaker 3: I don't think in the world because people seem to 421 00:20:14,359 --> 00:20:18,720 Speaker 3: take almost college basketball, college football stances. I'm this is 422 00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:22,080 Speaker 3: my team, and you know, go steal the you know, 423 00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:23,920 Speaker 3: the mascot of the other team and never say a 424 00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:24,639 Speaker 3: nice word about that. 425 00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:27,120 Speaker 2: But that's not the gospel, that's not Jesus. And so. 426 00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:32,480 Speaker 3: Just your closing thoughts on what's your sense of what 427 00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:34,639 Speaker 3: should the church, those who are listening at least on this, 428 00:20:35,119 --> 00:20:38,359 Speaker 3: what should we be doing to help build bridges with 429 00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:42,200 Speaker 3: those who don't see Israel as biblical but are also 430 00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:45,520 Speaker 3: not connecting the Great Commission to Israel and the Jewish 431 00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:48,560 Speaker 3: people more broadly, as well as a heart for Muslims. 432 00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:51,879 Speaker 3: I love how you ended that particular message with dreams 433 00:20:51,880 --> 00:20:56,280 Speaker 3: and visions, which I've traveled from Afghanistan to Morocco extensively, 434 00:20:56,280 --> 00:20:58,600 Speaker 3: and of course I live in the region meeting Muslims 435 00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:00,560 Speaker 3: who've come to faith in Jesus, and it's been a 436 00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:03,679 Speaker 3: huge encouragement to me. So I'm not sure that's a 437 00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:04,399 Speaker 3: distinct question. 438 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:04,959 Speaker 2: I guess right. 439 00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:07,000 Speaker 3: No, I'm giving you a lot up for kind of 440 00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:09,520 Speaker 3: your final thoughts on this before that's fair, Before you 441 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:10,679 Speaker 3: got to go that's. 442 00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:12,359 Speaker 4: Fair A while these things are both very close to 443 00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:14,119 Speaker 4: my heart. I love what you said ment to go, 444 00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:16,560 Speaker 4: you know, regardless of how you read the particulars of 445 00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:18,600 Speaker 4: the end times, or even if you embrace a replacement 446 00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:20,440 Speaker 4: theology which I don't agree with. 447 00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:22,040 Speaker 2: Even if you did that. 448 00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:25,879 Speaker 4: You do notice that the apostles, Paul in general, often 449 00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:29,080 Speaker 4: started his evangelism with the Jewish people in the area. 450 00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:32,320 Speaker 4: And yeah, that's because in large part they were God fears. 451 00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:34,080 Speaker 4: But I mean that's still true today, and I think 452 00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:36,239 Speaker 4: that's you know, what that tells me is and all 453 00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:39,359 Speaker 4: the evangelism of all the nations. Yes, the Jewish people 454 00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:42,960 Speaker 4: were going to have some intentionality there. I'm not saying 455 00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:44,639 Speaker 4: we'll do that more than we do China. I'm just 456 00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:45,360 Speaker 4: saying we're going to. 457 00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:48,200 Speaker 2: Do both of them because mar would, he wouldn't even 458 00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:52,000 Speaker 2: need to. That's a that's a size of the budget Muslims. 459 00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:54,679 Speaker 4: I mean, you know, one of my mentors said something 460 00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:57,080 Speaker 4: that you know, has functioned for me almost like a 461 00:21:57,119 --> 00:22:02,160 Speaker 4: word of prophetic insight. He said, you know, JD, every civilization, 462 00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:06,280 Speaker 4: every great world power has seen that has stood opposed 463 00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:10,000 Speaker 4: to the Gospel, has seen it crumble and the Gospel flourish. 464 00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:13,960 Speaker 4: He said, you know, you think of the Roman Empire. 465 00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:17,560 Speaker 4: In some ways, Roman Catholicism, or the medieval version of 466 00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:20,560 Speaker 4: Roman Catholicism, stood against the you know, the Gospel of 467 00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:24,040 Speaker 4: Jesus and Luther and the Reformation, then you have the 468 00:22:24,040 --> 00:22:27,639 Speaker 4: communist block, you know, and it. But he said, the 469 00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:30,760 Speaker 4: one major civilization that has never seen a major gospel 470 00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:33,800 Speaker 4: breakthrough all those others have seen major gospel breakthroughs is 471 00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:35,080 Speaker 4: the Islamic Empire. 472 00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:36,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, we've seen little pockets here and there. 473 00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:38,879 Speaker 4: I mean, I'm very familiar with those, but you know, 474 00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:41,280 Speaker 4: in just a massive turning of them to Jesus. And 475 00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:43,080 Speaker 4: he said, I don't know how history could end until 476 00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:45,720 Speaker 4: that happens, and so so yeah. 477 00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:47,240 Speaker 2: I want to be there. I want to be that 478 00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:47,920 Speaker 2: you know, that. 479 00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:50,760 Speaker 4: Proverbial woodpecker that's Tappa tapping away at the telephone pole 480 00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:53,520 Speaker 4: when lightning strikes it. He's like, ah, look at what 481 00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:55,080 Speaker 4: I did, you know, And you know, it's like, I 482 00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:56,679 Speaker 4: know I didn't do it, but I know that Jesus 483 00:22:56,720 --> 00:22:58,879 Speaker 4: is going to send his salvation to the Muslim world, 484 00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:01,439 Speaker 4: and I really want to be there when it happened. 485 00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:05,000 Speaker 4: So anyway, Yeah, that's the heart behind everyday revolutionary and 486 00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:07,399 Speaker 4: it's the heart behind the Revelation series that I've preached 487 00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:09,359 Speaker 4: that in many ways overlaps with it. 488 00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:11,760 Speaker 2: So yeah, thanks, I'm encouraged by that. Thank you. 489 00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:14,679 Speaker 3: The good news is actually more Muslims have come to 490 00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:17,480 Speaker 3: faith in Jesus in the last fifty or sixty years 491 00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:21,760 Speaker 3: than the last fourteenth centuries combined, relative to one point. 492 00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:23,719 Speaker 2: Eight billion Muslims. No, and so so much more has 493 00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:24,480 Speaker 2: to happen. 494 00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:27,000 Speaker 3: Right, But also the other news, well I'll just end 495 00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:29,680 Speaker 3: with is actually more Jews have come to faith in 496 00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:32,240 Speaker 3: the last fifty or sixty years, particularly beginning with the 497 00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:36,240 Speaker 3: Jesus Revolution in the early nineteen seventies, than at any. 498 00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:38,680 Speaker 2: Other time since the Apostle Paul himself. 499 00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:41,000 Speaker 3: I mean, when I was born in nineteen sixty seven, 500 00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:43,520 Speaker 3: best studies we have is there were maybe two thousand 501 00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:46,800 Speaker 3: Jews in the world believe that Jesus is the Messiah, 502 00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:49,080 Speaker 3: and now we're at about one million, based on a 503 00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:52,399 Speaker 3: study with the Southern Baptist Research Joshua Funn did with 504 00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:54,879 Speaker 3: them and a few other ministries, and we were shocked. 505 00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:57,679 Speaker 3: We actually were so shocked we didn't release the study 506 00:23:57,680 --> 00:23:59,960 Speaker 3: at first because we didn't believe it. We believe that more, 507 00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:01,520 Speaker 3: you know, a lot of Judy come to faith, but 508 00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:04,879 Speaker 3: not a million worldwide, and about nine hundred thousand the 509 00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:05,440 Speaker 3: United States. 510 00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:07,160 Speaker 2: So it's encouraging. 511 00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:10,720 Speaker 3: We're on that trend. I'm grateful that you are. You're 512 00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:13,480 Speaker 3: teaching what you're teaching from the scriptures, and you're letting 513 00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:17,639 Speaker 3: the scriptures guide you as opposed to imposing on it 514 00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:20,959 Speaker 3: your own personal or political or whatever type of belief. 515 00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:24,639 Speaker 3: That's encouraging, it's helpful, it's healthy, and I say, mayor 516 00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:27,640 Speaker 3: tribe increase JD. Thank you your brother spend some time 517 00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:28,000 Speaker 3: with us. 518 00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:35,639 Speaker 2: I really appreciate it. I love it. Joel, thank you. Well. 519 00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:37,840 Speaker 1: That's our program for this week, but before we go, 520 00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:39,800 Speaker 1: we want to encourage you to check out Joel and 521 00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:44,080 Speaker 1: Lin's podcast Inside the Epicenter, which isn't the top one 522 00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:47,440 Speaker 1: percent of all podcasts in the world. Just search for 523 00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:50,840 Speaker 1: the Inside the Epicenter podcast on your favorite podcast app 524 00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:55,880 Speaker 1: or visit Joshua Fun dot com slash radio. We've released 525 00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:59,320 Speaker 1: over three hundred and fifty episodes, all with the goal 526 00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:03,639 Speaker 1: of helping you you learn, pray, give, and go advancing 527 00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:06,360 Speaker 1: the Kingdom of Christ in the very place where scripture 528 00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:10,040 Speaker 1: was birthed and continues to come to life again. Simply 529 00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:13,280 Speaker 1: search for Inside the Epicenter with Joel cy Rosenberg on 530 00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:17,600 Speaker 1: your favorite podcast app or visit Joshua Fun dot com 531 00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:22,320 Speaker 1: slash radio. That's Joshua Fun dot com, slash Radio. Thanks 532 00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:25,280 Speaker 1: for joining us on Inside the Epicenter week in edition 533 00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:29,919 Speaker 1: with Joel Rosenberg on behalf of the entire Joshua Fun team. 534 00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:32,520 Speaker 1: We invite you to join us again next week as 535 00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:36,399 Speaker 1: we continue to unpack the headlines, the prophecies, and the 536 00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:40,400 Speaker 1: hope of Christ that's rising in the Middle East. Until then, 537 00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:46,720 Speaker 1: stay washful, stay prayerful, and keep your eyes on the Epicenter.