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Speaker 1: Life Audio.

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Speaker 2: I had made my way from three different cities and

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Speaker 2: circled back close to my brother in law's house in

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Speaker 2: a total span of roughly twenty to twenty two miles,

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Speaker 2: so walking, occasionally running, and I wind up at this

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Speaker 2: bridge overlooking a very busy highway here in Texas, and

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Speaker 2: I know exactly what I had planned to do. I'm

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Speaker 2: staring at the oncoming traffic, trying to find the right

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Speaker 2: a team wheeler, deciding is it going to be Peter

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Speaker 2: Bilt or mac across my forehead.

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Speaker 3: Hello, Hello, and welcome to the Confessions of a Christian

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Speaker 3: Alcoholic podcast. I am your host, John Seidel. This is

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Speaker 3: your home for real stories, radical vulnerability, and remarkable comebacks.

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Speaker 3: In the end, this podcast is a place for the desperate,

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Speaker 3: the trodden, the destitute, and especially the drunk. But it's

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Speaker 3: also a place of hope and healing. I know that

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Speaker 3: firsthand because I'm the Christian who became an.

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Speaker 1: Alcoholic, not the other way around.

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Speaker 3: Today, I've found sobriety after decades of struggling. But more

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Speaker 3: importantly than finding sobriety, I found Jesus. My prayer is

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Speaker 3: that as I interview people just like you and just

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Speaker 3: like me, along with professionals in the fields of trauma,

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Speaker 3: faith and addiction recovery.

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Speaker 1: You will find the.

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Speaker 3: Peace that is available to you through Christ on the

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Speaker 3: other side of whatever you're going through and whatever addiction

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Speaker 3: that might be, because let's face it, we're all addicted

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Speaker 3: to something so welcome.

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Speaker 1: Let's get radically vulnerable.

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Speaker 3: As we explore what it looks like to be on

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Speaker 3: this journey of messy sanctification. You know, some of us

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Speaker 3: are runners. And when I say that, I do not

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Speaker 3: mean physically, although maybe you're listening to this and you're

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Speaker 3: a runner.

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Speaker 1: I try to run as much as possible.

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Speaker 3: But I think a lot of us are runners in

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Speaker 3: the spiritual sense, in the emotional sense. I say that

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Speaker 3: my addiction wasn't to alcohol. My addiction really was to escapism,

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Speaker 3: just trying to run away from feeling the things I

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Speaker 3: don't want to feel. Today's guest is also a runner.

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Speaker 3: He ran from God, he ran from accountability, he ran

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Speaker 3: from a lot of treatment centers, and he ran from me.

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Speaker 3: So it's kind of a funny story. But I had

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Speaker 3: heard about this guy because our kids, our boys went

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Speaker 3: to school together, same elementary school, and his wife started

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Speaker 3: on Facebook that he was in treatment, and I reached

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Speaker 3: out to her and I said, hey, I would love

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Speaker 3: to connect with him, and so she's like, that'd be great,

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Speaker 3: and she gave me his number and he.

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Speaker 1: Never got back to me.

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Speaker 3: And you know, he'll talk about this a little bit,

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Speaker 3: but you know, I think he was embarrassed. I think

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Speaker 3: he wanted to keep his story tight to the vest.

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Speaker 3: And what I love about today's guest is that I

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Speaker 3: have seen him personally go through an evolution in that

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Speaker 3: he has become someone who realizes the power of sharing

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Speaker 3: your story even though it's embarrassing, even though there are

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Speaker 3: aspects that could produce shame. But he really lives out

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Speaker 3: Revelation twelve that we overcome by the blood of the

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Speaker 3: Lamb and the word of our testimony. And so today's

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Speaker 3: guest is Travis Blakely. Travis has become a dear and

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Speaker 3: close friend. He's actually one of the founding board members

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Speaker 3: to the nonprofit that I started and run called Veritas Recovery.

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Speaker 3: And Travis has just been co laboring alongside of me

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Speaker 3: in a special way in getting that off the ground.

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Speaker 3: Has been responsible for just some incredible stuff that we've

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Speaker 3: been able to do. And so Travis though, is someone

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Speaker 3: who's kind of your typical suburban dad. We live in

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Speaker 3: a suburb of North Dallas, and Travis had it all.

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Speaker 3: Grew up in a very affluent neighborhood in downtown Dallas,

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Speaker 3: went to a very prestigious school, worked in professional basketball,

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Speaker 3: worked in professional broadcasting. And he'll talk about how he

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Speaker 3: was drunk on air. He'll talk about how bad it got,

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Speaker 3: how he got fired from his job, and what that

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Speaker 3: led to. And it is a reminder that disordered loves,

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Speaker 3: disordered affectionates don't care who you are. We all have them.

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Speaker 3: And so finally, after going through plenty of attempts at

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Speaker 3: different treatment facilities, he wound up at a gospel centered

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Speaker 3: one and he's going to talk about that experience and

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Speaker 3: what the Lord did in his life. He is a

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Speaker 3: different person. It's it's kind of hard for me, Like

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Speaker 3: I hear the stories, I hear his wife, I talk

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Speaker 3: to his wife. You know, we're our families, our friends,

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Speaker 3: and and it's it's interesting because the Travis that they

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Speaker 3: know from the past, it's just so hard for me

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Speaker 3: to imagine that Travis, just like I'm sure like and

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Speaker 3: I've said this on the podcast before. One of my

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Speaker 3: greatest fears is that you only know this version of me,

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Speaker 3: You only hear this version of me, and and I

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Speaker 3: don't want you, I like, I want you to know

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Speaker 3: that there is a different version of me, There was

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Speaker 3: a different version of me. That person is still someone

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Speaker 3: I'm worrying against, and that person is selfish, and that

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Speaker 3: person just wants to escape, and that person is willing

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Speaker 3: to sink into oblivion to not have to be present,

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Speaker 3: or I should say, in some ways, to be present,

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Speaker 3: to not have to be thinking about the things they

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Speaker 3: don't want to think about. And so it's interesting because

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Speaker 3: I don't know that Travis, just like you don't know

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Speaker 3: that mean, but Travis and me do our bestory to

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Speaker 3: introduce you to that person, because in order for you

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Speaker 3: to understand what God is capable of doing, it's imperative

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Speaker 3: that you understand where we were. And so Travis is

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Speaker 3: going to take us on that journey. And I am

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Speaker 3: just so thankful for his partnership, his friendship. He has

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Speaker 3: become just a dear friend and someone who I trust implicitly,

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Speaker 3: and so I'm excited to introduce him to you today.

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Speaker 3: Before we get there, though, I talked about Veritas recovery.

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Speaker 3: That is the nonprofit that we work for. You can

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Speaker 3: go to Veritasrecovery dot org. We are creating, and have created,

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Speaker 3: and are still working to create more frontline resources for

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Speaker 3: those of you who do not have access to gospel

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Speaker 3: centered recovery or are too ashamed to pursue it, because

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Speaker 3: showing up to your gospel centered recovery ministry means outing

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Speaker 3: or exposing yourself, and we get that, and so we

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Speaker 3: want to offer you help and hope now with the

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Speaker 3: hopes of pointing you to deeper discipleship in the local

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Speaker 3: church context. So go to Veritasrecovery dot org and you

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Speaker 3: can get the free resources. If you feel called to

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Speaker 3: help support what we're doing and making those resources of

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Speaker 3: ali to the most amount of people free of charge,

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Speaker 3: I'd be honored if you considered a donation. So with

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Speaker 3: that said, let me introduce you to my good friend

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Speaker 3: Travis Blakely. Travis, thank you so much for joining the

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Speaker 3: Confessions of a Christian Alcoholic podcast. This has been a

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Speaker 3: long time coming. We were talking about that a little

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Speaker 3: bit before we came on air. But the story, if

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Speaker 3: you will, of how we met is a great one,

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Speaker 3: and in a sense the fact that you are here

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Speaker 3: is a testament to God because you ran away from me. Brother,

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Speaker 3: you ran like a marathon sprinter. That doesn't even make sense.

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Speaker 2: Well, I do have a background in track and field, John,

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Speaker 2: so you know I leaned on some former talents that

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Speaker 2: I probably to put too much of my own identity in.

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Speaker 2: And yeah, that I mean to think back to that

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Speaker 2: Tuesday night, you know, right around when the birth of

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Speaker 2: my fourth child was taking place, just just a touch

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Speaker 2: before she arrived, and for God to step in and

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Speaker 2: put us together physically in the same room after not

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Speaker 2: returning several of your texts and kind of not kind

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Speaker 2: of being flighty, because I was fearful of breaking certain

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Speaker 2: walls with my testimony, a testimony that is truly a

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Speaker 2: gift of God, one that others do need to share

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Speaker 2: or hear rather but my comfortability and my vulnerability were

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Speaker 2: limited by my fear, and so I talked.

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Speaker 3: A little bit about that in the intro that you

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Speaker 3: know we were You know, I was originally writing the book,

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Speaker 3: and then it was it was going to have stories

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Speaker 3: of other people. I kind of heard about you through

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Speaker 3: the grapevine. I started trying to get a hold of you.

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Speaker 3: You ran we ended up meeting randomly with you know,

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Speaker 3: not planning on meeting you, and but then from there

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Speaker 3: we met and you told me your story in the

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Speaker 3: middle of a Black Rifle coffee shop and it was

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Speaker 3: like a It was almost like looking in a mirror

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Speaker 3: in several aspects. And so I want you to tell

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Speaker 3: us that story. To tell us the story of Travis Blakely.

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Speaker 3: How did you end up in a nine is it

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Speaker 3: nine months? Right?

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Speaker 2: Nine months?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, nine months in patient treatment facility for alcoholism after

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Speaker 3: being like so many of us, I think they listened

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Speaker 3: to this someone who knew Jesus had grown up in

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Speaker 3: that environment and yet still became an alcoholic. So tell

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Speaker 3: us the story of Travis Blakeley.

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Speaker 2: Well, John, I'm grateful to you. I'm grateful for your

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Speaker 2: audience to be able to share this story. Right, and

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Speaker 2: for those who have read your book, you know, Confessions

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Speaker 2: of a Christian Alcoholic, It's remarkable how similar my walk

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Speaker 2: was to yours. And conversely, I think that's what built

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Speaker 2: such a strong bond between us. But you know, it

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Speaker 2: wasn't as though my alcoholism started when I was in

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Speaker 2: my thirties or in my twenties, even right my dependence

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Speaker 2: on something other than Christ in my life started at

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Speaker 2: a much earlier age, and it stemmed from both little

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Speaker 2: Tea and Big T trauma around the age of eleven

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Speaker 2: and twelve, both the separation and ultimate divorce of my

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Speaker 2: parents from the little T trauma perspective, as well as

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Speaker 2: some abuse that took place at the hands of a

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Speaker 2: familiar but yet an outsider when I was younger, led

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Speaker 2: me to look elsewhere and to take a different approach

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Speaker 2: as to what love was and how I could gain it,

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Speaker 2: and it would became very transactional and performance based. And

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Speaker 2: it wasn't shortly thereafter, both in my parents' divorce in

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Speaker 2: that case and also in the case of being abused,

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Speaker 2: that I started smoking pot. And you know, around twelve

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Speaker 2: years old, I encountered it in an older cousin's bathroom

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Speaker 2: and he offered it after I kind of found it

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Speaker 2: looking for a roll of toilet paper under the sink

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Speaker 2: and lough and behold. I liked it. It was comforting,

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Speaker 2: it was medicating to an extent right, And I think

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Speaker 2: that's one of the things that I continued to chase,

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Speaker 2: was that first time of feeling pain relief at a

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Speaker 2: mental level that bled into kind of a spiritual level

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Speaker 2: that allowed a certain comfort to be had and that

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Speaker 2: pain to negate, albeit briefly, and it left me chasing

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Speaker 2: time after time after time, and that led me to

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Speaker 2: a significant amount of drinking right around the start of

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Speaker 2: high school, like between that transition from middle school to

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Speaker 2: high school, excessive binge drinking throughout high school. The wheels

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Speaker 2: came off in college, but throughout that process I was

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Speaker 2: able to skirt any level of true consequence because I

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Speaker 2: was performing at a very high level academically athletically. And

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Speaker 2: then you know college where came about. I was a

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Speaker 2: basketball player and I got in trouble my freshman year,

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Speaker 2: and rather than face the consequences that were put in

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Speaker 2: front of me and becoming a part of like a

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Speaker 2: probation level status student, I decided to simply pack up

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Speaker 2: and come home and transfer and again just avoiding responsibility,

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Speaker 2: not recognizing or submitting to the fact that I had

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Speaker 2: this problem and this misaligned love and this misunderstanding of

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Speaker 2: what love was. I just kept chasing, kept chasing, and

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Speaker 2: I chased by drinking. I chase by performing, I chased

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Speaker 2: by getting high, and John, I can tell you, even

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Speaker 2: in success, I sought to self medicate in failure. I

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Speaker 2: sought to self medicate in celebration, right in average, mundane days,

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Speaker 2: I sought that. And in seeking that, primarily over any

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Speaker 2: true relationship, I became enamored and in love with the

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Speaker 2: feeling of being drunk or the feeling of being high,

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Speaker 2: and it took over, and things only perpetuated again. Masquerading

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Speaker 2: under the guys of success. Entering into pro sports, working

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Speaker 2: in basketball for nine seasons and doing well at a

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Speaker 2: very early age just stymied any approach to recovery or moderation,

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Speaker 2: and ultimately that came crashing down because I was getting

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Speaker 2: drunk on television. I was getting drunk or into games

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Speaker 2: that I was either coaching or was supposed to be

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Speaker 2: evaluating in my role as a front office executive. And

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Speaker 2: then I was doing television insights for like pregame and

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Speaker 2: halftime and postgame intoxicated, and I was found out and

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Speaker 2: I'd put so much of an identity in that idea

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Speaker 2: that as being who I was was this basketball guy.

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Speaker 2: Then when that was stripped of me, the drinking only increased. Right,

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Speaker 2: And then, as this is all unfolding, I'm married, I'm

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Speaker 2: having a child, or first of four and the stresses

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Speaker 2: that come with that, as I know you're aware of

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Speaker 2: being a father yourself just continued to layer on top,

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Speaker 2: and rather than seek help, rather to admit to a problem,

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Speaker 2: I tried my best to simply hide. And I never

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Speaker 2: came forward about any level of the psychological and the

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Speaker 2: mental issues I was facing along with the trauma that

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Speaker 2: I certainly feel were catalysts towards that until it reached

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Speaker 2: a really, really difficult time, what people would call a

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Speaker 2: rock bottom moment, and it was approaching my daughter's tenth

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Speaker 2: birthday when I was arrested for drinking in a grocery

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Speaker 2: store not paying for that. I would walk by the

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Speaker 2: single serve aisle before they were available for sale and

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Speaker 2: grab them and drink them in the aisles and throw

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Speaker 2: them behind other groceries that were on the shelves to

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Speaker 2: hide the evidence. And I was caught on camera and

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Speaker 2: caught by the manager of the store, and they called

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Speaker 2: the police. And to say it affected my daughter and

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Speaker 2: my wife would be an understatement. The level at which

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Speaker 2: I still don't know, I can't fathom. But I thank

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Speaker 2: the Lord for the healing that has taken place since

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Speaker 2: that point. But that was in January, nearly four years ago,

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Speaker 2: and it led to a meeting with my pastors in

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Speaker 2: our home where I finally shared some of the things

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Speaker 2: that I had been carrying for thirty eight years. Well

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Speaker 2: thirty eight years is how old I was at the time,

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Speaker 2: but for twenty seven years, and I shared the traumatic

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Speaker 2: experiences that took place, and it was healing and cathartic

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Speaker 2: in the moment, but there wasn't any follow up that

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Speaker 2: I took action on. I didn't seek to do anything

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Speaker 2: after the fact, So I think by the standard alcoholic approach,

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Speaker 2: I started to white knuckle things right because I got

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Speaker 2: it out into the world. But I got it out

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Speaker 2: without a plan, and I got it out without an

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Speaker 2: expectation of myself to do something about it. So I

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Speaker 2: maintained sobriety for approximately six weeks until a marathon here

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Speaker 2: in the DFW area that I was running with some

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Speaker 2: friends from our church run club, and an injury crops

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Speaker 2: up about twelve thirteen miles into the race, and my

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Speaker 2: knee swells up like the size of a balloon. And

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Speaker 2: I'm not used to significant injury, and I keep trying

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Speaker 2: to power through it, and a guy who's running with me.

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Speaker 2: I think had a sense of what my mind was

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Speaker 2: doing at the time, because I kept encouraging him to

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Speaker 2: just leave me behind. And those who don't know run culture.

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Speaker 2: Around about the ten mile mark, you start to see

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Speaker 2: these tables set up every half mile to a mile

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Speaker 2: where people offer you jello shots, a beer, a shot

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Speaker 2: a tequila, a margarita. And it's very pervasive in the

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Speaker 2: culture of running. And he knew my struggles with alcohol

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Speaker 2: and my fight to stop, and despite his urging to

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Speaker 2: stay with me, I pushed him along after about six

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Speaker 2: attempts at him saying no, he's gonna hang with me,

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Speaker 2: and I took another drink. And that led me down

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Speaker 2: a cycle for about four months until a really ugly

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Speaker 2: battle between my wife and I verbally pushed me kind

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Speaker 2: of over the breaking point. And that that was a

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Speaker 2: four month period of me on crutches, leaving my home

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Speaker 2: to crutch to the gas station at six forty five

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Speaker 2: in the morning to be able to buy alcohol here

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Speaker 2: in Texas at seven am, and hid hide a bottle

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Speaker 2: in the pond behind our house. Yeah, pour the vodka

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Speaker 2: into the white claw, and that's how I'd start my

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Speaker 2: day and in order to do it. I would literally

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Speaker 2: crutch over a mile to the gas station, and just

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Speaker 2: thinking back, it's just so desperate, and it's and it's

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Speaker 2: so unfortunate that my wife and my children had a

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Speaker 2: father and a husband who was so reliant on that

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Speaker 2: as an escape and as a medication to the point

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Speaker 2: where May twenty seventh comes and I'm thrown out of

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Speaker 2: my house.

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Speaker 1: And why what was kind of the final straw for

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Speaker 1: your wife there?

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Speaker 2: Well, definitely a significant amount of financial impropriety because I

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Speaker 2: had to hide the drinking. So I was, you know,

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00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:23,840
Speaker 2: selling things and pocketing the cash, using that to purchase alcohol,

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Speaker 2: using that to purchase weed. A lot of line and

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Speaker 2: manipulation about where I had been, what I'd been doing

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00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:33,800
Speaker 2: driving drunk again, I'd had a d W I already

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Speaker 2: in my life. I even I drove with the kids,

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Speaker 2: two of my two boys in the back seat, and

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Speaker 2: I did so on the way to church while my

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Speaker 2: wife was out of town while serving at church.

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Speaker 3: So you got drunk on a Sunday, more on a

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Speaker 3: Sunday morning, I'm assuming.

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Speaker 2: So it started in the started in the morning service

320
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Speaker 2: was that afternoon, I liked. I think I managed it

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Speaker 2: throughout the day but I can't assure anyone that I

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Speaker 2: did load the boys in the car, drive to church,

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Speaker 2: go inside immediately. There were people that thought I was off,

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Speaker 2: to the point where they contacted my wife, not so

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Speaker 2: much out of concern for me, but out of concern

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Speaker 2: for the fact that my boys were there. Yeah, and

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Speaker 2: it was one of those tipping points that she knew,

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Speaker 2: you know, the hammer had to come down, and in

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Speaker 2: her words, she couldn't stand by and let me, or

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Speaker 2: let herself and the kids watch me kill myself because

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Speaker 2: that's what I was doing, and I couldn't continue to

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Speaker 2: put them in danger. So it was you're out of

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Speaker 2: the house. My brother in law took me in for

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Speaker 2: the night. He lived a city about fifteen miles away,

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Speaker 2: and I woke up the next morning, no real plan

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Speaker 2: of action except to get drunk, because that was my

337
00:21:57,080 --> 00:22:00,720
Speaker 2: coping mechanism. That's how I solve problems. And John, I

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00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:03,760
Speaker 2: just started wandering around and I had no credit card,

339
00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:06,960
Speaker 2: I had no money, I had no resources. I just

340
00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:10,000
Speaker 2: took off and started walking and made my way a

341
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Speaker 2: few miles into this gas station, stole alcohol, made it

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00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:15,840
Speaker 2: to that grocery store stoll alcohol. Before I knew it

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Speaker 2: it's eleven o'clock, restaurants are open. I start walking, bar

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Speaker 2: tabs and all of this is pinged on my GPS

345
00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:25,520
Speaker 2: on my phone prior to me turning it off, and

346
00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:29,879
Speaker 2: over the span of the day, prior to about eight pm,

347
00:22:30,359 --> 00:22:33,640
Speaker 2: I had made my way from three different cities and

348
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Speaker 2: circled back close to my brother in law's house in

349
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Speaker 2: a total span of roughly twenty to twenty two miles,

350
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Speaker 2: so walking walking, had no access to a vehicle, walking,

351
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Speaker 2: occasionally running, probably getting away. Can see the change of

352
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Speaker 2: speed on the air, and I wind up at this

353
00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:58,520
Speaker 2: bridge overlooking a very busy highway here in Texas, and

354
00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:01,240
Speaker 2: I know exactly what i'd play and to do. And

355
00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:04,880
Speaker 2: my phone had been on airplane mode, and I'm staring

356
00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:08,560
Speaker 2: at the oncoming traffic trying to find the right eighteen wheeler,

357
00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:11,119
Speaker 2: deciding is it going to be Peter Built or mac

358
00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:17,399
Speaker 2: across my forehead and I pull out my phone and

359
00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:21,280
Speaker 2: I turn airplane mode off. Not sure why I knew

360
00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:23,200
Speaker 2: I wanted to just kind of record a quick message

361
00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:25,840
Speaker 2: to my wife and my kids and my family, and

362
00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:30,760
Speaker 2: my dad calls and there were some messages sent and

363
00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:33,640
Speaker 2: some text messages sent from loved ones from my wife

364
00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:37,040
Speaker 2: asking where I was. What's going on? Call them back,

365
00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:39,440
Speaker 2: call this helpline number. They'll come pick me up wherever

366
00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:42,160
Speaker 2: I am. They could tell. And I had probably said

367
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Speaker 2: some things throughout the day alluding to taking my own life,

368
00:23:48,359 --> 00:23:50,919
Speaker 2: And in that moment, my dad talked to me, not

369
00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:53,240
Speaker 2: like a dad to a son, but he talked to

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00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:56,000
Speaker 2: me in a way that a coach would talk to

371
00:23:56,040 --> 00:24:01,320
Speaker 2: his player. And it was the son, I'm on my way,

372
00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:04,400
Speaker 2: get to your brother in law's house. I'll be there

373
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Speaker 2: in half an hour to pick you up, and we'll

374
00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:08,879
Speaker 2: find a solution. We'll figure this out. And so I

375
00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:12,080
Speaker 2: was a directive. It wasn't I love you so much,

376
00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:16,920
Speaker 2: don't do this. It wasn't a plead. It wasn't, again,

377
00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:18,560
Speaker 2: a father talking to a son. He spoke to me

378
00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:21,159
Speaker 2: in a way that he may not have known what

379
00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:23,640
Speaker 2: he was doing, but I certainly felt it, and I responded,

380
00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:26,399
Speaker 2: being an athlete my whole life and being in the

381
00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:30,200
Speaker 2: sports my whole life, and I listened and I went,

382
00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:33,600
Speaker 2: And then that night I was committed to a mental

383
00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:37,439
Speaker 2: health hospital on a seventy two hour hold to sober

384
00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:41,480
Speaker 2: up in Detox, and during that time, In the brief

385
00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:44,080
Speaker 2: phone calls that I was able to make to Amanda,

386
00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:46,760
Speaker 2: my wife, and to my mother and to my dad.

387
00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:51,760
Speaker 2: There was one option and it wasn't we're going to

388
00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:53,800
Speaker 2: pay to send you to another rehab as they did

389
00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:57,080
Speaker 2: in my twenties, you know, along the Pacific Coast, where

390
00:24:57,080 --> 00:25:00,280
Speaker 2: I learned more about surfing, street tacos and yoga than

391
00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:04,640
Speaker 2: I did about recovery. Certainly no relationship with Christ being

392
00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:08,119
Speaker 2: offered at those spots, but it was to go to

393
00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:14,439
Speaker 2: this place in South Dallas, I really depraved, downtrodden, underserved

394
00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:19,320
Speaker 2: part of town that was nine months long, that had

395
00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:23,879
Speaker 2: a military component to it, twelve step based, but at

396
00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:25,800
Speaker 2: the center of it, it was a ministry first, and

397
00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:29,879
Speaker 2: it was Christ led and it's called the Men of Nehemayah.

398
00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:33,840
Speaker 2: And I committed to going after my seventy two hour hold.

399
00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:36,600
Speaker 2: But even in the back of my mind John that

400
00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:42,160
Speaker 2: commitment at my rock bottom, I was manipulating my own

401
00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:46,240
Speaker 2: narrative in my mind that I would go, but they

402
00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:48,680
Speaker 2: would eventually need me. So maybe it was two weeks,

403
00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:51,280
Speaker 2: maybe it was thirty days, whatever, but I'm not the

404
00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:53,760
Speaker 2: guy who needs it for nine months. I'll just get

405
00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:57,320
Speaker 2: a quick reset, placate my wife and family, and I'll

406
00:25:57,320 --> 00:26:01,720
Speaker 2: be back to living a good life again in a month.

407
00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:04,440
Speaker 2: And so that's that's the arc.

408
00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:05,679
Speaker 1: We'll be right back after this.

409
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:13,480
Speaker 3: Before we get to kind of the recovery aspect, I

410
00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:16,840
Speaker 3: want to go back to some certain points in the.

411
00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:18,159
Speaker 1: Story and that.

412
00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:22,159
Speaker 3: First of all, it's interesting you said you were you

413
00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:26,360
Speaker 3: were sent to a rehab in your twenties, So what

414
00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:31,040
Speaker 3: was your drinking looking like back then that that your

415
00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:33,280
Speaker 3: family said, oh, we're going to send you to your rehab, Like,

416
00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:34,240
Speaker 3: what was that.

417
00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:38,680
Speaker 2: So, John? That that was? That was a significant amount

418
00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:43,240
Speaker 2: of binge drinking, blackout drunk. I recall I wrecked my

419
00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:47,080
Speaker 2: car into a neighbor's mailbox driving down my street after

420
00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:49,040
Speaker 2: my Uh, it was in between my senior year of

421
00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:52,680
Speaker 2: high school and my freshman year of college. A lot

422
00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:56,639
Speaker 2: of a lot of weed. And it was just one

423
00:26:56,680 --> 00:26:58,720
Speaker 2: of those things coming out of that freshman year in

424
00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:01,600
Speaker 2: college where I essentially had been told commit to a

425
00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:04,760
Speaker 2: probationary program or or you're not allowed to participate at

426
00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:07,560
Speaker 2: this university anymore, let alone be on the basketball team.

427
00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:10,760
Speaker 2: So that following you know, nine month period or so,

428
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:16,639
Speaker 2: was very dark. I liked purpose I like motivation. My

429
00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:24,760
Speaker 2: parents all felt like there was a dependence on alcohol

430
00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:28,800
Speaker 2: and weed in particular that needed to be addressed in

431
00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:33,320
Speaker 2: a professional way. And I think maybe to make it

432
00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:39,119
Speaker 2: more attractive to me, a beachside location might be more convincing.

433
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:42,840
Speaker 2: And so that's what was offered. And you know, I

434
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:46,560
Speaker 2: didn't have any major responsibilities at the time, and I

435
00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:50,800
Speaker 2: knew deep down I wasn't happy, I wasn't fulfilled, and

436
00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:53,000
Speaker 2: I wasn't motivated. There were a lot of things I

437
00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:55,840
Speaker 2: knew were off with me, and so I felt like,

438
00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:58,760
Speaker 2: in that moment, maybe this, maybe this could be a

439
00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:01,879
Speaker 2: good course of action to help me get right and

440
00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:04,359
Speaker 2: get back on the on the proper track and trajectory

441
00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:05,920
Speaker 2: for my life. So I went.

442
00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:09,560
Speaker 1: And what did your last fuck out?

443
00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:11,440
Speaker 3: Okay, you know you kind of you kind of made

444
00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:13,640
Speaker 3: that joke, like you learn more about surfing, But what

445
00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:16,600
Speaker 3: was that? Because I think we're gonna juxtapose it then

446
00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:19,000
Speaker 3: with what eventually worked for you.

447
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:21,800
Speaker 1: But I'm curious.

448
00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:27,040
Speaker 3: I'm curious about that rehab facility because I you know,

449
00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:29,960
Speaker 3: I know there's probably not probably I know there's people

450
00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:34,480
Speaker 3: listening here who will eventually go to rehab and should

451
00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:35,439
Speaker 3: go to rehab.

452
00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:40,960
Speaker 2: And there's nothing wrong wrong with rehait exactly so, but.

453
00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:45,560
Speaker 3: You had you've experienced two types of rehab, the rehab

454
00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:52,400
Speaker 3: that is the technically oh it's been five oh so.

455
00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:57,760
Speaker 2: In various forms from from traditional inpatient rehab outpatient sober living.

456
00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:02,120
Speaker 3: Right, So, what was it about that one in California

457
00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:04,160
Speaker 3: that you think didn't make it stick?

458
00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:10,200
Speaker 2: And was it not just I can't point to that

459
00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:13,080
Speaker 2: place and say it was what they did that didn't

460
00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:15,680
Speaker 2: work for me. It was me that didn't work for me. Yeah,

461
00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:20,320
Speaker 2: that's abundantly clear. But in the moment, what didn't resonate

462
00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:24,280
Speaker 2: with me loudly enough because of my heart posture and

463
00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:29,800
Speaker 2: because of my unwillingness to admit my powerlessness to what

464
00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:33,320
Speaker 2: was taking place, because I wanted to control everything, John,

465
00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:36,760
Speaker 2: I am. I am a manipulator and a control freak

466
00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:40,520
Speaker 2: at my core, and that stems from fear right. And

467
00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:45,760
Speaker 2: I was exposed and educated on the traditional twelve steps

468
00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:49,240
Speaker 2: of recovery at that age when I first went to rehab,

469
00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:52,840
Speaker 2: and I still practiced those twelve steps today, but today

470
00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:56,200
Speaker 2: they mean something entirely different, or they haven't rephrased. They

471
00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:59,440
Speaker 2: have a much deeper meaning today than what I learned then,

472
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:06,280
Speaker 2: what I learned them I did exactly right, exactly right. Yeah, okay,

473
00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:09,719
Speaker 2: cart horse, here we go. So John, in that moment,

474
00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:14,200
Speaker 2: at that age, in my early twenties, the education I

475
00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:18,760
Speaker 2: was provided was the proper education, but the impact didn't

476
00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:22,760
Speaker 2: come with that academic knowledge. It gave me structure, it

477
00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:27,720
Speaker 2: allowed me to pursue sobriety, but I did not really

478
00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:31,960
Speaker 2: submit to a higher power as it's called in the

479
00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:34,960
Speaker 2: in the Four Walls of AA. I certainly didn't to

480
00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:38,760
Speaker 2: attach my relationship with Jesus Christ at that time to

481
00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:41,520
Speaker 2: my recovery, even though I related the two, and my

482
00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:48,760
Speaker 2: higher power was Christ is Christ today. So it's efficiency

483
00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:52,600
Speaker 2: in my life at that time again were only stymied

484
00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:58,640
Speaker 2: by myself and the emphasis that that program put on

485
00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:06,960
Speaker 2: a near dependence on this twelve step process as an

486
00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:11,720
Speaker 2: every day. If these things are not done, then you fail.

487
00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:17,280
Speaker 2: There's an inherent failure attached to that that the way

488
00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:19,320
Speaker 2: it was taught and well, or perhaps the way I

489
00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:24,920
Speaker 2: received it more likely that in that time didn't give

490
00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:28,800
Speaker 2: me an outlook of freedom and joy. So naturally I

491
00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:31,640
Speaker 2: then continue to seek freedom and joy. And how did

492
00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:35,560
Speaker 2: I find that previously drugs and alcohol? Right, So right

493
00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:36,200
Speaker 2: back into.

494
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:36,680
Speaker 1: It, right?

495
00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:41,880
Speaker 3: You know, I know you had I know some of

496
00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:44,440
Speaker 3: your stories and you know, feel free to tell as

497
00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:46,720
Speaker 3: many as you want as I as I.

498
00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:47,120
Speaker 1: Pry here, but.

499
00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:51,640
Speaker 3: You had you had said that you got drunk on air,

500
00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:55,360
Speaker 3: and so you know, I'd like to go back to

501
00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:56,760
Speaker 3: that because that's wait, what do you mean drunkard?

502
00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:57,720
Speaker 1: Were you a news guy?

503
00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:01,560
Speaker 3: Like what? I'm curious if you could just unpack that

504
00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:04,000
Speaker 3: a little bit for the audience. What does being drunk

505
00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:06,840
Speaker 3: on air mean? What were you doing at that time?

506
00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:09,479
Speaker 3: And how did that even work? Like you just had

507
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:11,760
Speaker 3: a flask in your pocket and you know during commercial

508
00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:17,040
Speaker 3: breaks you're throwing it back or what happened there? So?

509
00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:22,040
Speaker 2: John I worked at the minor league level of the NBA,

510
00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:27,080
Speaker 2: the Development League now called the G League, and in

511
00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:31,280
Speaker 2: that role, I was asked to coach. I was asked

512
00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:38,560
Speaker 2: to facilitate and evaluate trades, salaries, player performance analytics, all

513
00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:41,520
Speaker 2: of those things. That was the title that I held.

514
00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:45,640
Speaker 2: But at the level that I was at, we were

515
00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:48,160
Speaker 2: asked to do many things that if we had talents

516
00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:51,280
Speaker 2: for them, would you be willing? Essentially? Right, And one

517
00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:54,520
Speaker 2: of my talents for good or bad, was to tell

518
00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:56,560
Speaker 2: the story. I was really good at telling my own

519
00:32:57,400 --> 00:33:01,800
Speaker 2: true or not, and so I could take information very quickly,

520
00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:05,480
Speaker 2: analyze it, evaluate it, build a narrative behind it, and

521
00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:11,120
Speaker 2: and go live on television, pregame, halftime, postgame, in the

522
00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:14,520
Speaker 2: middle of the game, literally leaving my bench position as

523
00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:17,400
Speaker 2: a coach to go do this hit on a local

524
00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:21,560
Speaker 2: network or on ESPN or on Fox Sports. So that

525
00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:24,960
Speaker 2: would that would take place. Now, what started as I'll

526
00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:27,200
Speaker 2: I'll have a drink or two to take the edge

527
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:29,640
Speaker 2: off before a game, which, believe it or not, is

528
00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:32,040
Speaker 2: rather common practice, not to.

529
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:34,160
Speaker 1: The coach, among players, among both.

530
00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:37,440
Speaker 2: Uh, you know, I wouldn't. I don't want to put

531
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:40,440
Speaker 2: a label out there. It's just a thing that occurs

532
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:46,720
Speaker 2: sometimes among coaches or others who are in a position

533
00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:50,800
Speaker 2: post game right pregame. No, but that was my thing.

534
00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:53,240
Speaker 2: I'm like, well, if it's good for postgame to be

535
00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:55,640
Speaker 2: a stress relief or to bring down the energy, then

536
00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:58,280
Speaker 2: why can't it do the same thing since it's pre game.

537
00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:00,800
Speaker 2: So I took what I had already seen as kind

538
00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:05,680
Speaker 2: of an established habit from people I aspired and respected.

539
00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:10,480
Speaker 2: It's acceptable, right, And I'm like, well, if I know

540
00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:13,320
Speaker 2: I've got to be on TV at let's say five

541
00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:16,200
Speaker 2: minutes to tip off, and I know my coach is

542
00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:18,560
Speaker 2: meeting right before the game is twenty minutes before that,

543
00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:21,400
Speaker 2: where's a window of time where I can run to

544
00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:24,160
Speaker 2: the hotel right across the street from the arena, just

545
00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:27,239
Speaker 2: shoot right out the team locker room one street over,

546
00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:32,000
Speaker 2: hotel lobby, bar, quick drink, run right back. Well that

547
00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:35,640
Speaker 2: turned into two quick drinks or one really really big

548
00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:39,399
Speaker 2: drink and run right back. And then at halftime as

549
00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:41,799
Speaker 2: the players come out, and there's normally twelve minutes or

550
00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:48,840
Speaker 2: so where TV game coaching responsibilities, all that would just

551
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:53,840
Speaker 2: kind of be this nebulous time frame. I knew a

552
00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:57,960
Speaker 2: bartender on the concourse level of the arena, I'd go

553
00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:02,000
Speaker 2: grab one at halftime. Then it got to the point

554
00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:04,759
Speaker 2: where I was keeping a bottle in my bag and

555
00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:07,799
Speaker 2: pouring it in a Gatorade bottle, never taking it onto

556
00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:09,960
Speaker 2: the court, never taking it with me into the arena,

557
00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:12,080
Speaker 2: but sneaking off into the locker room might as well

558
00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:15,960
Speaker 2: be the same thing. And John, it just it got

559
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:20,040
Speaker 2: to the point where the feedback I got wasn't that

560
00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:23,000
Speaker 2: the audience noticed the feedback I got was that the

561
00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:27,080
Speaker 2: people that were around me started to take notice. And

562
00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:31,279
Speaker 2: then it started to progress to hey, anything off last night,

563
00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:33,480
Speaker 2: because now all of a sudden, the performance is starting

564
00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:38,520
Speaker 2: to change. And it kept evolving and devolving. And then

565
00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:42,200
Speaker 2: came the time. Our season runs until about April May,

566
00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:46,160
Speaker 2: and in February I'm caught walking back across from the

567
00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:49,040
Speaker 2: street with an open bar tab at the hotel lobby

568
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:57,960
Speaker 2: by our team president, and he confronts me, says, to

569
00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:00,839
Speaker 2: go about my job. Can finish, finish, finished the game,

570
00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:05,560
Speaker 2: and we'll talk more. They present me with a pretty

571
00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:09,480
Speaker 2: unique proposal at the end of the season. So fast forward.

572
00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:11,480
Speaker 2: I still keep doing this, mind you for two more

573
00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:15,680
Speaker 2: months minimum, and at the end of the season it's

574
00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:20,279
Speaker 2: go get treatment or you don't have a job. I

575
00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:22,399
Speaker 2: thought so much of myself John and had some other

576
00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:26,920
Speaker 2: conversations already started with other teams that I.

577
00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:28,600
Speaker 3: A.

578
00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:30,719
Speaker 2: I wasn't in a position to go get treatment. B

579
00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:33,000
Speaker 2: I didn't think I needed it. CE I thought so

580
00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:35,359
Speaker 2: much of myself that don't they know who they think

581
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:41,800
Speaker 2: I am? And then it was like, forget you, forget

582
00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:43,600
Speaker 2: the nine years, forget the fact that I grew up

583
00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:45,160
Speaker 2: with you as my favorite team, and you're still my

584
00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:49,239
Speaker 2: favorite team. We're done, and so I tried to make

585
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:51,320
Speaker 2: it my decision when ultimately it was theirs.

586
00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:54,360
Speaker 3: And you know what fascinates me because I'm in the

587
00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:56,600
Speaker 3: same boat, and you know, could tell similar stories, not

588
00:36:56,640 --> 00:36:59,040
Speaker 3: about being drunk on air, but we all, I think,

589
00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:03,480
Speaker 3: have the story where like, looking back, it's like, oh,

590
00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:06,480
Speaker 3: it's obviously you had a problem, right, But in the moment,

591
00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:09,759
Speaker 3: I'm sure you convinced yourself You're like, I don't have

592
00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:13,600
Speaker 3: a problem, even though you're putting you know, vodka, gatorade

593
00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:17,200
Speaker 3: bottles or leaving your work in the middle, you know,

594
00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:19,800
Speaker 3: technically the middle of a game, right to go drink.

595
00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:22,240
Speaker 1: But I don't have a problem.

596
00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:28,120
Speaker 3: And it's just such a vivid picture of how we

597
00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:29,720
Speaker 3: can deceive ourselves.

598
00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:32,120
Speaker 2: It is now, it is, and John, you know, for me,

599
00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:35,319
Speaker 2: it didn't just start that way. Yeah, right, Like I said,

600
00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:39,120
Speaker 2: I used the word earlier, devolving right, it For me,

601
00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:43,080
Speaker 2: I can I can look back to that first season

602
00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:45,799
Speaker 2: and I'm not saying again, my my issue stemmed way

603
00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:48,359
Speaker 2: before that. They started way before that. But that first

604
00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:51,480
Speaker 2: season it started as like, oh, on a Friday night game,

605
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:55,160
Speaker 2: we'll go out as a group coaches or staff or otherwise,

606
00:37:55,239 --> 00:37:58,640
Speaker 2: and and go out after the game, have a few drinks. Well,

607
00:37:58,680 --> 00:38:01,760
Speaker 2: then have a few drinks turned into get drunk for Travis,

608
00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:05,720
Speaker 2: and then it turned into oh well on a regular

609
00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:08,560
Speaker 2: work day. No, now every game we do this, every game,

610
00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:11,719
Speaker 2: I do this, and then a regular workday, oh, the

611
00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:15,840
Speaker 2: day's done. Happy hour, and happy hour was no longer

612
00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:19,040
Speaker 2: have a snack with my wife and have a couple

613
00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:21,960
Speaker 2: of beers. It just it kept progressing and kept progressing

614
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:26,800
Speaker 2: to the point where we went from postgame drinks, postgame blackout,

615
00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:33,600
Speaker 2: drunk happy hour on a regular old day lunchtime cocktails,

616
00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:36,960
Speaker 2: mid afternoon cocktails too. As I described at the end,

617
00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:42,080
Speaker 2: before you can even buy the alcohol, I'm already trying

618
00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:43,080
Speaker 2: to find ways to get it in.

619
00:38:44,080 --> 00:38:46,239
Speaker 3: I remember, you know, there was a one time, you know,

620
00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:50,280
Speaker 3: even just what you just said that, and in my mind,

621
00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:52,279
Speaker 3: I'm like, well, I guess you know, I never did that,

622
00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:54,680
Speaker 3: and I wasn't trying to justify myself, but I'm like,

623
00:38:55,120 --> 00:38:56,960
Speaker 3: I was like, well, interesting, it never got that bad

624
00:38:57,000 --> 00:38:59,640
Speaker 3: for me, I guess not yet. But you know what,

625
00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:03,400
Speaker 3: I would you, and this is just I would I

626
00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:08,680
Speaker 3: would show up to my favorite beer and pizza place

627
00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:10,120
Speaker 3: before they opened.

628
00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:12,080
Speaker 2: Yes, and they would.

629
00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:17,160
Speaker 3: Open for me and start serving me alcohol and my

630
00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:19,640
Speaker 3: favorite beer at ten in the morning. So it's like,

631
00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:21,520
Speaker 3: on one hand, I'm like, well, I guess I never

632
00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:25,120
Speaker 3: limped to the I never limped to the to the

633
00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:29,840
Speaker 3: UH gas station before they tech, before they could technically give.

634
00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:29,960
Speaker 2: Me a beer.

635
00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:31,000
Speaker 1: And I'm like, what do you mean?

636
00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:33,960
Speaker 3: No, But you drove, You drove to your favorite place,

637
00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:37,479
Speaker 3: and they knew that you were good for about five

638
00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:39,319
Speaker 3: or six of them, so they were sure as heck

639
00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:41,319
Speaker 3: gonna serve you because that was a lot of great

640
00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:42,040
Speaker 3: money for them.

641
00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:45,640
Speaker 2: You know. It's just it's funny just how our minds

642
00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:48,839
Speaker 2: work well, and and and and the level at which

643
00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:53,399
Speaker 2: we can excuse the behavior. Yeah, right, because I don't

644
00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:57,360
Speaker 2: have a problem. This is this is my normal. Yeah,

645
00:39:58,520 --> 00:40:04,200
Speaker 2: you know, I recall even even late in my drinking career, right,

646
00:40:04,239 --> 00:40:07,200
Speaker 2: I'm working late hours. I'd progress from being in pro

647
00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:10,439
Speaker 2: sports to migrating into the hospitality space as a chef.

648
00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:13,719
Speaker 2: And you know, you get off work as a chef

649
00:40:13,719 --> 00:40:17,080
Speaker 2: at like one o'clock in the morning, sometimes you go

650
00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:19,839
Speaker 2: do the drink thing. But I would wake up and

651
00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:22,160
Speaker 2: there was a spot similar to you at pizza spot

652
00:40:22,239 --> 00:40:26,800
Speaker 2: that they sell beer. If you go regularly, you realize

653
00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:29,759
Speaker 2: they have an under the counter bar, you name it,

654
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:32,360
Speaker 2: they've got it under there, right, And so I would

655
00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:34,759
Speaker 2: go there. They did open at ten o'clock because as

656
00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:36,840
Speaker 2: a pizza joint, you know, you start fulfilling orders and

657
00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:41,799
Speaker 2: deliveries pretty quickly. I'd just post up there. And there's

658
00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:44,040
Speaker 2: a taco shop that does something similarly because they sell

659
00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:47,600
Speaker 2: breakfast tacos here in our area. And my excuse to

660
00:40:47,640 --> 00:40:51,320
Speaker 2: that person who would see me drinking excessively is particularly

661
00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:54,920
Speaker 2: at the taco shop at seven thirty in the morning. Oh,

662
00:40:55,040 --> 00:40:57,560
Speaker 2: I work late. This is just like someone else coming

663
00:40:57,600 --> 00:41:01,200
Speaker 2: in at happy hour, right, right, because if you get

664
00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:04,560
Speaker 2: my day, my day ended four hours ago. This is

665
00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:07,000
Speaker 2: my happy hour. So don't look at me funny. This

666
00:41:07,080 --> 00:41:07,640
Speaker 2: is normal.

667
00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:15,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's there's there's one more story that you've told

668
00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:19,040
Speaker 3: me that I think is interesting, right because and I'm

669
00:41:19,080 --> 00:41:22,160
Speaker 3: not sure exactly where it fits in the timeline, so

670
00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:24,239
Speaker 3: you can kind of put it where it needs to go.

671
00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:27,040
Speaker 3: But but there's the story of you breaking into the

672
00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:31,520
Speaker 3: locker room. Yeah, do you want to tell that story?

673
00:41:31,800 --> 00:41:36,760
Speaker 3: Of course, So tell us tell us where that story

674
00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:41,480
Speaker 3: lands in, you know, because you gave us the overview

675
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:43,680
Speaker 3: before you get to you know what what ends up

676
00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:46,360
Speaker 3: becoming the final treatment center. But where does the story

677
00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:48,080
Speaker 3: of breaking into the locker room fit in?

678
00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:48,920
Speaker 1: And tell us that.

679
00:41:48,920 --> 00:41:54,439
Speaker 2: Story, John, So that that fits in, uh, pretty close

680
00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:57,440
Speaker 2: to the end of my career in pro sports, right,

681
00:41:57,520 --> 00:42:00,600
Speaker 2: so that the opportunities with that team I'd been with

682
00:42:00,680 --> 00:42:06,840
Speaker 2: for for nine seasons, uh is over. I spend that

683
00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:11,399
Speaker 2: summer not following up or pursuing anything. Really that wasn't

684
00:42:11,480 --> 00:42:13,640
Speaker 2: just I expected things to fall in my lap and

685
00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:14,200
Speaker 2: they didn't.

686
00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:17,120
Speaker 3: And after like they give you the ultimatum, and you're like,

687
00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:20,480
Speaker 3: I'm leaving, I'm not doing you don't yeah.

688
00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:22,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, And and keep in mind they had stood by

689
00:42:22,719 --> 00:42:25,279
Speaker 2: me after a d w I. They had stood by

690
00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:28,240
Speaker 2: me about through what likely should have been a second

691
00:42:28,239 --> 00:42:33,239
Speaker 2: one but got busted down to a public intoxication. You know,

692
00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:35,400
Speaker 2: the old you fall asleep in your car, but the

693
00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:37,640
Speaker 2: keys are in the ignition yea, And by fall asleep

694
00:42:37,680 --> 00:42:40,480
Speaker 2: I mean pass out. So yeah, one of those. But

695
00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:43,520
Speaker 2: they stood by me through that, right, And then all

696
00:42:43,560 --> 00:42:46,759
Speaker 2: this time it was it was here's the ultimatum, It's

697
00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:50,719
Speaker 2: this or that, and I chose that we're done. A

698
00:42:50,719 --> 00:42:59,640
Speaker 2: few months pass, and goodness, it was early early fall

699
00:43:00,560 --> 00:43:03,840
Speaker 2: of that same year, after no longer being in their employment.

700
00:43:04,600 --> 00:43:07,919
Speaker 2: I'm at the bar and I'd come off a long

701
00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:14,440
Speaker 2: work shift, and I think to myself, I wonder if

702
00:43:14,440 --> 00:43:16,319
Speaker 2: my key still works, because I still have my key

703
00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:18,560
Speaker 2: to the office. And I think to myself, I wonder

704
00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:23,080
Speaker 2: if my security badge, my little scan still works. It does.

705
00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:28,600
Speaker 2: I invite some folks to go shoot around that are

706
00:43:28,680 --> 00:43:31,160
Speaker 2: happened to be with me that night, and we're drunk

707
00:43:31,160 --> 00:43:33,200
Speaker 2: and we're high, and so we make our way to

708
00:43:33,239 --> 00:43:36,480
Speaker 2: the arena and we go in. And again you say

709
00:43:36,520 --> 00:43:40,200
Speaker 2: break in, I say, entered into a place of employment

710
00:43:40,719 --> 00:43:44,000
Speaker 2: right where where my card still works? Right? And this

711
00:43:44,080 --> 00:43:47,120
Speaker 2: is the delusional thinking at the time. Well, if we

712
00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:49,920
Speaker 2: hang out for a split and I run into the

713
00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:53,359
Speaker 2: concession area and grab a case of beer, We're not

714
00:43:53,440 --> 00:43:55,000
Speaker 2: dressed to be on the floor, so I grab some

715
00:43:55,040 --> 00:44:00,000
Speaker 2: shoes and some sweats and what have you. And ultimately

716
00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:04,400
Speaker 2: I'm by myself right after about thirty minutes or so,

717
00:44:04,520 --> 00:44:06,920
Speaker 2: and I'm there and I'm drinking and I'm charging my

718
00:44:07,040 --> 00:44:10,799
Speaker 2: phone and just kind of hanging out smoking in the

719
00:44:10,840 --> 00:44:14,400
Speaker 2: locker room, thinking it's funny, I mean, really really adolescent

720
00:44:14,520 --> 00:44:17,799
Speaker 2: juvenile behavior for a thirty year old, thirty five year

721
00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:25,759
Speaker 2: old man right and rep rap at the door, and

722
00:44:25,840 --> 00:44:28,200
Speaker 2: I think, oh, probably a friend of mine who was

723
00:44:28,200 --> 00:44:31,160
Speaker 2: with me just recently coming back. Maybe he forgot something,

724
00:44:31,239 --> 00:44:32,799
Speaker 2: he's to use the bathroom. It hadn't been more than

725
00:44:32,840 --> 00:44:38,400
Speaker 2: fifteen or twenty minutes since he left. Look out two

726
00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:42,400
Speaker 2: police officers, the president of the team, and a security guard.

727
00:44:42,719 --> 00:44:44,439
Speaker 2: I didn't see the president of the team at the time,

728
00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:47,160
Speaker 2: but he's back there and I opened the door. I'm like,

729
00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:50,359
Speaker 2: can I help you, Like, sir, do you belong here?

730
00:44:50,360 --> 00:44:52,800
Speaker 2: And I said, oh, I work here. And the voice

731
00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:56,000
Speaker 2: I hear is a voice that says you used to

732
00:44:56,080 --> 00:44:59,680
Speaker 2: work here. And that's when I knew, like, oh, this

733
00:44:59,719 --> 00:45:02,759
Speaker 2: is the This is not good. This is likely to

734
00:45:03,080 --> 00:45:07,360
Speaker 2: result in my arrest, which it did. I did not

735
00:45:07,520 --> 00:45:10,680
Speaker 2: realize what I was doing at the time equated to

736
00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:15,359
Speaker 2: a felony in the state of Texas, between stealing the beer,

737
00:45:15,680 --> 00:45:20,480
Speaker 2: stealing the gear, and having marijuana concentrate pins. I received

738
00:45:20,520 --> 00:45:26,600
Speaker 2: two felony charges that night. And again, what does this sickness,

739
00:45:26,640 --> 00:45:32,279
Speaker 2: what does this? What is this overreliance on alcohol, this

740
00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:36,560
Speaker 2: addiction due to someone well, for someone like me, it

741
00:45:36,719 --> 00:45:40,319
Speaker 2: made me think that this was okay behavior and that

742
00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:45,440
Speaker 2: even if I got caught, people would understand and excuse

743
00:45:45,480 --> 00:45:50,600
Speaker 2: it away because it's me. So this grand geo sense

744
00:45:50,600 --> 00:45:56,080
Speaker 2: of self and an upbringing where no real consequence ever

745
00:45:56,280 --> 00:46:00,360
Speaker 2: stuck led me to becoming a felt and in the

746
00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:01,480
Speaker 2: state of Texas.

747
00:46:02,280 --> 00:46:06,040
Speaker 3: And so that is I think that story happens. And

748
00:46:06,080 --> 00:46:09,279
Speaker 3: then you have the bridge incident, right.

749
00:46:09,320 --> 00:46:11,520
Speaker 2: Well, so no, this this story happens. And then several

750
00:46:11,600 --> 00:46:18,160
Speaker 2: years past of me working in the hospitality space, Oh, okay, finance, yeah.

751
00:46:19,000 --> 00:46:20,560
Speaker 3: You know, and that's I think it's I think that's

752
00:46:20,600 --> 00:46:23,000
Speaker 3: good to hear because I think I said this, I

753
00:46:23,040 --> 00:46:25,279
Speaker 3: know you probably said this. I know there's people who

754
00:46:25,320 --> 00:46:28,600
Speaker 3: are listening who said this is like, well, if it

755
00:46:28,640 --> 00:46:32,800
Speaker 3: gets really bad, I'll have an obvious wake up call

756
00:46:33,080 --> 00:46:35,200
Speaker 3: and I'll and I'll stop right right.

757
00:46:36,040 --> 00:46:38,960
Speaker 1: And the thing that I've.

758
00:46:38,880 --> 00:46:41,960
Speaker 3: Learned with myself and with others time and time and

759
00:46:42,040 --> 00:46:47,680
Speaker 3: time again is that the wake up call comes and

760
00:46:47,719 --> 00:46:52,080
Speaker 3: we we hit snooze, snooze, yep, yep, because we're like,

761
00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:56,040
Speaker 3: you know, I mean, you know, it really is a

762
00:46:56,040 --> 00:47:00,160
Speaker 3: great analogy because it's like, you know, the night before,

763
00:46:59,840 --> 00:47:03,920
Speaker 3: you like, okay, you know, I gotta be I gotta

764
00:47:03,920 --> 00:47:06,960
Speaker 3: be at work at you know, seven, I'm gonna I'm

765
00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:11,520
Speaker 3: gonna wake up five thirty, you know, uh, and and

766
00:47:11,600 --> 00:47:14,400
Speaker 3: the alarm goes off and in the moment then you're like,

767
00:47:14,520 --> 00:47:15,120
Speaker 3: I don't.

768
00:47:14,920 --> 00:47:17,120
Speaker 1: Really need to give a five thirty snooze.

769
00:47:17,640 --> 00:47:20,760
Speaker 3: I don't really okay five forty five, Yeah, I listen,

770
00:47:20,800 --> 00:47:22,799
Speaker 3: I can. I I at least got a good ten,

771
00:47:23,000 --> 00:47:26,200
Speaker 3: you know. And it's but it's that same mentality we

772
00:47:26,360 --> 00:47:28,720
Speaker 3: just hit snooze on the wake up calls of life,

773
00:47:29,120 --> 00:47:31,480
Speaker 3: you know, because there's so many things that I said

774
00:47:31,480 --> 00:47:33,000
Speaker 3: I would never do, and then I'd get to them

775
00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:37,480
Speaker 3: and I'd be like, well this ain't so bad, you know, Yeah, snooze, snooze, snooze.

776
00:47:37,800 --> 00:47:40,399
Speaker 3: And so it's interesting that like that happens, you get

777
00:47:40,480 --> 00:47:43,600
Speaker 3: charged with felonies, you're you know, and then it's another

778
00:47:43,680 --> 00:47:48,000
Speaker 3: two years before before.

779
00:47:49,000 --> 00:47:52,239
Speaker 1: I guess you really broken bottom. Yeah yeah, true.

780
00:47:52,280 --> 00:47:56,000
Speaker 2: Well, and even even in that moment where I practice,

781
00:47:56,040 --> 00:47:59,160
Speaker 2: as your book calls it, radical vulnerability with my pastors,

782
00:47:59,200 --> 00:48:03,239
Speaker 2: it's still another six months from that point, yeah, right,

783
00:48:03,480 --> 00:48:07,640
Speaker 2: because there are actions that are required of someone like

784
00:48:07,680 --> 00:48:13,160
Speaker 2: myself to really heal, right, And that's one thing I

785
00:48:13,160 --> 00:48:17,359
Speaker 2: really admire about your teachings and Confessions of a Christian Alcoholic, John,

786
00:48:17,680 --> 00:48:21,959
Speaker 2: is that you take the Gospel approach which so many

787
00:48:22,040 --> 00:48:25,719
Speaker 2: people really believe can work for their loved one or

788
00:48:25,760 --> 00:48:29,480
Speaker 2: for themselves, and they can, but you apply action to it.

789
00:48:30,239 --> 00:48:36,640
Speaker 2: And as someone who received an education saw it firsthand

790
00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:40,120
Speaker 2: for others at my last treatment stop, of which I

791
00:48:40,160 --> 00:48:42,840
Speaker 2: always say, I'm a client for life, but a resident

792
00:48:42,920 --> 00:48:46,759
Speaker 2: once at the men of the Amayah, because I can

793
00:48:46,800 --> 00:48:51,080
Speaker 2: tell you, if ever I choose to drink again, A,

794
00:48:51,280 --> 00:48:54,719
Speaker 2: I know it's my choice, and B I'm aware of

795
00:48:54,800 --> 00:48:58,279
Speaker 2: exactly what it is I'm doing now. And it's that

796
00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:00,960
Speaker 2: awareness that I'm grateful for. It's that same thing that

797
00:49:01,000 --> 00:49:03,839
Speaker 2: you do in your writings, John, that I find so

798
00:49:04,120 --> 00:49:08,200
Speaker 2: uplifting and so encouraging, because it's not a simple prey

799
00:49:08,239 --> 00:49:12,759
Speaker 2: it away mentality. Right. Yes, we press into prayer, Yes

800
00:49:13,480 --> 00:49:16,080
Speaker 2: we lock in with the Lord, and we try to

801
00:49:16,280 --> 00:49:19,400
Speaker 2: understand and gain as much discernment as we can. But

802
00:49:19,480 --> 00:49:23,440
Speaker 2: we do that and we couple it with action. And

803
00:49:23,480 --> 00:49:26,200
Speaker 2: I think when you married the two, that's when you

804
00:49:26,320 --> 00:49:30,960
Speaker 2: get back to the root of AA's twelve step program, right,

805
00:49:31,040 --> 00:49:36,960
Speaker 2: which is an amazing roadmap to find sobriety. But for me,

806
00:49:37,120 --> 00:49:40,760
Speaker 2: that roadmap was missing the element of a gospel centered

807
00:49:40,800 --> 00:49:44,040
Speaker 2: approach as it originally was created. And that's what the

808
00:49:44,080 --> 00:49:46,239
Speaker 2: men of Nea Mayah put in my life, and that's

809
00:49:46,320 --> 00:49:49,319
Speaker 2: what you so eloquently put on paper in your most

810
00:49:49,360 --> 00:49:52,400
Speaker 2: recent book. And that's why I find our stories not

811
00:49:52,520 --> 00:49:55,680
Speaker 2: just so similar, but why I'm also so thankful that

812
00:49:55,719 --> 00:49:58,879
Speaker 2: we experience them literally within days of each other's. Yeah,

813
00:49:59,280 --> 00:50:04,440
Speaker 2: recovery day and we've walked this walk together. It's just

814
00:50:04,520 --> 00:50:09,200
Speaker 2: it's it's so serendipitous, and I couldn't be more grateful

815
00:50:09,200 --> 00:50:12,600
Speaker 2: for it. So let's fast forward.

816
00:50:12,320 --> 00:50:15,960
Speaker 1: Then to them in an email.

817
00:50:16,239 --> 00:50:21,320
Speaker 3: Right, So you decide, Okay, I'll go to this treatment facility.

818
00:50:21,920 --> 00:50:25,000
Speaker 3: It's faith based. Let's let's let's scale back the power

819
00:50:25,040 --> 00:50:31,680
Speaker 3: of that word decide. Ques I acquiesked, Yeah, yeah, you

820
00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:37,080
Speaker 3: were ultimadium or whatever. Well, actually, you know what, before

821
00:50:37,080 --> 00:50:38,960
Speaker 3: we get there, there is one question I want to

822
00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:47,279
Speaker 3: ask you. What how was this affecting your wife and

823
00:50:47,320 --> 00:50:52,359
Speaker 3: what was she saying during this time? Was she like, Hey,

824
00:50:52,400 --> 00:50:55,040
Speaker 3: I'm just gonna let you crash and burn. Was it

825
00:50:55,200 --> 00:50:57,560
Speaker 3: just a mixed bag? Like sometimes she's like, come on,

826
00:50:57,760 --> 00:51:01,480
Speaker 3: you know, you know, stop this, or like what was

827
00:51:01,640 --> 00:51:04,080
Speaker 3: what was the approach that she took in how was

828
00:51:04,080 --> 00:51:05,480
Speaker 3: that affecting her?

829
00:51:06,640 --> 00:51:08,600
Speaker 2: So, John, I'm glad you bring that up because I

830
00:51:08,640 --> 00:51:11,799
Speaker 2: think that's a perspective that gets forgotten. Yeah, in a

831
00:51:11,800 --> 00:51:16,160
Speaker 2: lot of people's recovery journey, right, because we celebrate the

832
00:51:16,239 --> 00:51:20,600
Speaker 2: success of the individual's recovery or walk in this case

833
00:51:20,680 --> 00:51:25,480
Speaker 2: mine or yours, and really it's without the community around

834
00:51:25,520 --> 00:51:28,279
Speaker 2: them and those relationships around that person. In this case

835
00:51:28,360 --> 00:51:32,200
Speaker 2: my wife and myself, I can tell you it would

836
00:51:32,280 --> 00:51:35,480
Speaker 2: not have happened, not a chance at least not in

837
00:51:35,520 --> 00:51:38,279
Speaker 2: that moment that would now lead to this moment. And

838
00:51:38,360 --> 00:51:42,880
Speaker 2: so from my perspective and my very foggy memory, although

839
00:51:42,920 --> 00:51:46,520
Speaker 2: I've had the good fortune of getting some quality recounting

840
00:51:46,520 --> 00:51:48,520
Speaker 2: both from her and family members and loved ones who

841
00:51:48,560 --> 00:51:52,600
Speaker 2: were there, you know, our church played a critical role

842
00:51:53,200 --> 00:51:56,560
Speaker 2: in encouraging her and being there for her and for us,

843
00:51:57,080 --> 00:52:01,400
Speaker 2: but really filling the gap of my responsibility and my

844
00:52:01,520 --> 00:52:07,520
Speaker 2: destructive nature. Her parents are in recovery themselves, and they

845
00:52:07,560 --> 00:52:11,919
Speaker 2: saw the writing on the wall long before this and

846
00:52:12,280 --> 00:52:15,040
Speaker 2: they weren't co signing or enabling in any way, shape

847
00:52:15,120 --> 00:52:19,719
Speaker 2: or form. It was actually the opposite. And I think

848
00:52:19,760 --> 00:52:25,120
Speaker 2: it was just this perfect blending of a very dramatic

849
00:52:25,200 --> 00:52:27,640
Speaker 2: and drastic approach that had been asked of her to

850
00:52:27,719 --> 00:52:31,840
Speaker 2: do for quite some time from one element, a loving

851
00:52:31,920 --> 00:52:40,400
Speaker 2: and caring and supportive perspective that was being offered in

852
00:52:40,440 --> 00:52:43,319
Speaker 2: the moment as well, and then also a course of

853
00:52:43,400 --> 00:52:48,160
Speaker 2: action that came about from several others, And as things

854
00:52:48,200 --> 00:52:54,000
Speaker 2: continued to progressively get worse and worse, her approach to

855
00:52:54,040 --> 00:53:02,640
Speaker 2: me became more stern and more demanding of action and accountability.

856
00:53:04,239 --> 00:53:07,040
Speaker 2: And it was action and accountability that ultimately, as you know,

857
00:53:07,120 --> 00:53:12,000
Speaker 2: from that January date to May twenty eighth, I couldn't

858
00:53:12,000 --> 00:53:15,400
Speaker 2: provide myself or I didn't want it from others. And

859
00:53:15,480 --> 00:53:22,160
Speaker 2: so that day comes and she knew with our two

860
00:53:22,280 --> 00:53:25,919
Speaker 2: young boys at the time and my daughter who was ten,

861
00:53:28,000 --> 00:53:30,040
Speaker 2: she could not allow them to continue to be exposed

862
00:53:30,280 --> 00:53:34,120
Speaker 2: to me and the dangers that I presented. She may

863
00:53:34,120 --> 00:53:35,880
Speaker 2: have been able to tolerate a little bit more, but

864
00:53:35,920 --> 00:53:37,480
Speaker 2: I know she was at her breaking point too.

865
00:53:38,360 --> 00:53:40,640
Speaker 3: Did she know the full depth of how bad it got?

866
00:53:40,640 --> 00:53:42,800
Speaker 3: Did she know that you were driving drunk to the kids,

867
00:53:42,800 --> 00:53:44,480
Speaker 3: Did she know that you were hobbling to the gas

868
00:53:44,480 --> 00:53:46,040
Speaker 3: station at seven am?

869
00:53:46,360 --> 00:53:51,520
Speaker 2: Or I fit and lied about all of those circumstances,

870
00:53:52,960 --> 00:54:00,319
Speaker 2: despite the firsthand witnesses, despite empty can evidence, all it

871
00:54:00,640 --> 00:54:06,080
Speaker 2: I guess, I yeah, right, and it was I would

872
00:54:06,120 --> 00:54:10,360
Speaker 2: create any scenario where I could either drive sympathy for

873
00:54:10,440 --> 00:54:13,279
Speaker 2: myself to try to excuse the behavior, or I would

874
00:54:13,320 --> 00:54:21,120
Speaker 2: simply lie, become irate, and ultimately try to victim blame,

875
00:54:22,040 --> 00:54:25,800
Speaker 2: you know, and turn it around on her. And meanwhile,

876
00:54:25,920 --> 00:54:28,960
Speaker 2: like you know, our finances had been in complete disarray

877
00:54:29,680 --> 00:54:33,280
Speaker 2: from about my last year or two working in sports

878
00:54:33,600 --> 00:54:37,280
Speaker 2: all the way through up until this point, I mean terrible,

879
00:54:38,880 --> 00:54:41,400
Speaker 2: and they wouldn't have been great, but we wouldn't have

880
00:54:41,400 --> 00:54:45,719
Speaker 2: been in that desperate point where I'm selling possessions of

881
00:54:45,760 --> 00:54:49,479
Speaker 2: my own just to grab cash to continue to feed

882
00:54:49,520 --> 00:54:53,200
Speaker 2: my addiction. And so the original question was what was

883
00:54:53,239 --> 00:54:55,399
Speaker 2: it doing to her? Well, I can tell you there's

884
00:54:55,440 --> 00:54:59,279
Speaker 2: still effects that crop up today. Yes, you know, three

885
00:54:59,360 --> 00:55:04,160
Speaker 2: years out right, because the healing isn't instantaneous and there

886
00:55:04,200 --> 00:55:07,880
Speaker 2: is no magic wand right, but there is a process,

887
00:55:07,960 --> 00:55:12,000
Speaker 2: and there is an immensely graceful God that is in

888
00:55:12,080 --> 00:55:17,280
Speaker 2: our life and one who provides safety and peace and purpose.

889
00:55:17,960 --> 00:55:22,920
Speaker 2: And she was our spiritual leader, our family's spiritual leader

890
00:55:23,440 --> 00:55:26,759
Speaker 2: during my sickness while I was away at treatment. And

891
00:55:26,800 --> 00:55:29,320
Speaker 2: I'm just so grateful to the people that surrounded her

892
00:55:30,080 --> 00:55:35,760
Speaker 2: to pull her from that sense of desperation and immense

893
00:55:35,800 --> 00:55:41,520
Speaker 2: anger and disappointment and fear, because it was, ultimately, I think,

894
00:55:41,600 --> 00:55:44,719
Speaker 2: the fear that my kids or she may walk in

895
00:55:44,760 --> 00:55:47,719
Speaker 2: one day and I wouldn't be breathing in our own

896
00:55:47,760 --> 00:55:50,920
Speaker 2: home for whatever reason, or the fear that they might

897
00:55:50,920 --> 00:55:53,440
Speaker 2: get a phone call that I had harmed myself, or

898
00:55:53,480 --> 00:55:57,560
Speaker 2: God forbids someone else, stranger, loved one, or whomever. But

899
00:55:57,680 --> 00:56:02,880
Speaker 2: that fear, I think was the ultimate cat list that

900
00:56:03,040 --> 00:56:08,160
Speaker 2: got her to the point of desperation that then enabled

901
00:56:08,200 --> 00:56:11,520
Speaker 2: her to take a course of action that she never

902
00:56:11,640 --> 00:56:16,279
Speaker 2: envisioned for herself or for our marriage, which was give

903
00:56:16,280 --> 00:56:20,640
Speaker 2: me your wallet, or I'm taking this. Get out the door,

904
00:56:20,960 --> 00:56:22,719
Speaker 2: it's locked, You're not welcome here.

905
00:56:24,120 --> 00:56:26,239
Speaker 3: And you know there's still you had said this, and

906
00:56:26,239 --> 00:56:28,480
Speaker 3: I think it's important is that there's still effects of that, right.

907
00:56:28,680 --> 00:56:35,359
Speaker 3: There are still times where you know, my wife struggles

908
00:56:36,400 --> 00:56:43,719
Speaker 3: with aspects of trusting me which is totally understandable, right, Like,

909
00:56:44,680 --> 00:56:46,400
Speaker 3: I remember you and I were sitting in a coffee

910
00:56:46,400 --> 00:56:50,080
Speaker 3: shop one day and I came in and I said,

911
00:56:50,120 --> 00:56:51,520
Speaker 3: oh man, it was kind of a rough morning. You

912
00:56:51,520 --> 00:56:57,840
Speaker 3: said why, and I said, Well, in some sock drawer

913
00:56:58,920 --> 00:57:02,719
Speaker 3: that I had, my wife was digging for something and

914
00:57:02,760 --> 00:57:09,600
Speaker 3: she found an old empty bottle of the THHC gummies

915
00:57:10,000 --> 00:57:16,160
Speaker 3: that I used to take. And she's like, you know,

916
00:57:16,280 --> 00:57:19,560
Speaker 3: comes out of the comes out of the closet crying,

917
00:57:20,120 --> 00:57:24,360
Speaker 3: and she's like, when is this from? And I'm like,

918
00:57:25,400 --> 00:57:28,200
Speaker 3: I don't where'd you find that? I don't know what

919
00:57:28,200 --> 00:57:29,960
Speaker 3: you're talking Like, what do you She goes, this was

920
00:57:29,960 --> 00:57:35,280
Speaker 3: in the back of the sock car, and she's like,

921
00:57:35,800 --> 00:57:37,760
Speaker 3: when are these from? I said, they must be from

922
00:57:37,800 --> 00:57:40,760
Speaker 3: Like I mean at this point, maybe I was like

923
00:57:40,800 --> 00:57:42,400
Speaker 3: a year and a half, maybe two years sober.

924
00:57:42,400 --> 00:57:42,680
Speaker 2: I don't know.

925
00:57:42,720 --> 00:57:45,200
Speaker 3: I'm like, that's from like years ago. I don't have

926
00:57:45,280 --> 00:57:50,400
Speaker 3: no idea. And she's like, I'm choosing to trust you,

927
00:57:51,280 --> 00:57:52,200
Speaker 3: but I want you to.

928
00:57:52,120 --> 00:57:56,280
Speaker 1: Know it's really hard. And I'm like, I get it.

929
00:57:56,640 --> 00:57:58,880
Speaker 1: I get it. I don't like I don't have to

930
00:57:59,040 --> 00:58:01,000
Speaker 1: like it, you know, right?

931
00:58:01,280 --> 00:58:04,400
Speaker 2: Well, So John, yours yours was socks. Mine was shoes.

932
00:58:04,640 --> 00:58:05,720
Speaker 1: We'll be right back after this.

933
00:58:08,600 --> 00:58:11,880
Speaker 2: One day I get a text of a picture of

934
00:58:12,760 --> 00:58:17,440
Speaker 2: like the vaping devices cartridges THHC sent to me on

935
00:58:17,520 --> 00:58:23,560
Speaker 2: my way home from work. And to say that it

936
00:58:23,600 --> 00:58:25,200
Speaker 2: was a struggle to get past it would be an

937
00:58:25,240 --> 00:58:30,680
Speaker 2: understatement because and John, I have I have an issue.

938
00:58:30,720 --> 00:58:33,440
Speaker 2: I have, I have a problem. I love shoes. I

939
00:58:33,520 --> 00:58:36,160
Speaker 2: have a lot of them. In fact, that's that's a

940
00:58:36,200 --> 00:58:38,400
Speaker 2: part of how I fed my addiction was selling some

941
00:58:38,440 --> 00:58:43,040
Speaker 2: of my prized shoes in my sickness. And so I

942
00:58:43,280 --> 00:58:46,520
Speaker 2: mean probably fifty or sixty shoes just in the garage.

943
00:58:47,200 --> 00:58:50,080
Speaker 2: And she had been in there cleaning and stumbled across

944
00:58:51,120 --> 00:58:53,800
Speaker 2: a shoe that had a vape in it or something,

945
00:58:53,880 --> 00:58:56,920
Speaker 2: and then another one and another one. And John, I

946
00:58:57,000 --> 00:59:00,400
Speaker 2: thought the house had been cleared out, and that I'm

947
00:59:00,400 --> 00:59:03,800
Speaker 2: gonna use this term not to celebrate, but the ingenuity

948
00:59:03,880 --> 00:59:10,400
Speaker 2: I had of hiding my drinking was pretty stellar. Vodka

949
00:59:10,440 --> 00:59:15,240
Speaker 2: in a gas can, dropping a bottle on a ski

950
00:59:15,320 --> 00:59:17,320
Speaker 2: rope in the pond behind our house, hiding it in

951
00:59:17,360 --> 00:59:19,640
Speaker 2: a bush. I mean, you know, anything I could do

952
00:59:19,720 --> 00:59:23,160
Speaker 2: to get away, right, because I went full throttle in

953
00:59:23,240 --> 00:59:28,080
Speaker 2: one direction. Well, this is a year plus out of treatment,

954
00:59:28,640 --> 00:59:31,960
Speaker 2: and she sends this picture to me. I call immediately

955
00:59:32,600 --> 00:59:36,120
Speaker 2: and I'm like, I have no idea. I assure you

956
00:59:36,720 --> 00:59:39,920
Speaker 2: they cannot possibly be new or recent. I have not

957
00:59:40,040 --> 00:59:42,840
Speaker 2: engaged in that behavior at all. I'll take any level

958
00:59:42,840 --> 00:59:45,720
Speaker 2: of drug test, pull everything, I'll shave my head and

959
00:59:45,760 --> 00:59:48,720
Speaker 2: you can test every little hair on it. I could,

960
00:59:48,960 --> 00:59:52,280
Speaker 2: I can assure you. And she was like, I want

961
00:59:52,320 --> 00:59:54,760
Speaker 2: to believe you right now, but I think I need

962
00:59:54,760 --> 00:59:57,720
Speaker 2: a little time to really pray and process this. Yeah,

963
00:59:57,840 --> 01:00:03,240
Speaker 2: because this is the exact behavior that and the exact

964
01:00:03,280 --> 01:00:07,840
Speaker 2: response you would give me back when it was true. Yeah.

965
01:00:08,280 --> 01:00:10,560
Speaker 2: And so my challenge in that moment, John, and I

966
01:00:10,600 --> 01:00:14,200
Speaker 2: remember that conversation you and I had very vividly at

967
01:00:14,200 --> 01:00:15,920
Speaker 2: Black Rifle Coffee no free ads.

968
01:00:18,080 --> 01:00:19,360
Speaker 1: Become a sponsor of the show Black Ride.

969
01:00:19,400 --> 01:00:23,080
Speaker 2: I'm a sponsor. We love you guys. But I remember

970
01:00:23,080 --> 01:00:26,880
Speaker 2: that vividly, right because I asked her to consider this.

971
01:00:28,200 --> 01:00:32,520
Speaker 2: I said, my behavior and my response may sound similar

972
01:00:32,560 --> 01:00:34,720
Speaker 2: to the past, or my response may sound similar to

973
01:00:34,760 --> 01:00:38,320
Speaker 2: the past when I was in fact using, But I said,

974
01:00:38,520 --> 01:00:42,480
Speaker 2: has my behavior at any point in time in the

975
01:00:42,600 --> 01:00:48,280
Speaker 2: last year, let alone the last week, day two three,

976
01:00:48,360 --> 01:00:50,200
Speaker 2: whatever it may have been, since I may have been

977
01:00:50,200 --> 01:00:53,320
Speaker 2: able to access and use those things that you found,

978
01:00:53,680 --> 01:00:56,880
Speaker 2: has any of that given you any indication that I

979
01:00:56,880 --> 01:01:00,000
Speaker 2: have broken my sobriety, that I have neglected my recovery,

980
01:01:00,560 --> 01:01:02,240
Speaker 2: or that I am some way not aligned with my

981
01:01:02,280 --> 01:01:03,560
Speaker 2: Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

982
01:01:03,720 --> 01:01:04,880
Speaker 1: Yeah.

983
01:01:05,000 --> 01:01:09,040
Speaker 2: I remember having that conversation with her and those exact

984
01:01:09,080 --> 01:01:12,160
Speaker 2: words coming out of it, and she goes no, And

985
01:01:12,200 --> 01:01:14,120
Speaker 2: I said, so can we move forward? Will you take

986
01:01:14,160 --> 01:01:16,880
Speaker 2: those things, throw them in the trash, dunk them in

987
01:01:16,920 --> 01:01:18,640
Speaker 2: water if that makes you feel better, so you don't

988
01:01:18,680 --> 01:01:20,919
Speaker 2: believe I'll go digging through it if in fact there's

989
01:01:20,960 --> 01:01:23,600
Speaker 2: still that tinge of distrust, But can you do that?

990
01:01:24,240 --> 01:01:26,240
Speaker 2: And can we move forward? And she agreed.

991
01:01:27,960 --> 01:01:31,480
Speaker 3: And if you're listening to this and you are a

992
01:01:31,560 --> 01:01:35,600
Speaker 3: spouse of someone who's struggle with addiction, just know that

993
01:01:35,640 --> 01:01:37,400
Speaker 3: you're not crazy if you feel those things.

994
01:01:37,840 --> 01:01:42,320
Speaker 1: But if you are someone who is a recovering or even.

995
01:01:42,120 --> 01:01:45,400
Speaker 3: Inactive addiction recovering active inactive addiction, just know that, like,

996
01:01:46,560 --> 01:01:49,480
Speaker 3: it's normal for your partner to feel that way. And

997
01:01:49,560 --> 01:01:54,919
Speaker 3: guess what, And I've said this a lot. Their repentance

998
01:01:55,680 --> 01:02:00,200
Speaker 3: and reconciliation in all of that is not a get

999
01:02:00,200 --> 01:02:04,000
Speaker 3: out of jail free card, right, There are still consequences

1000
01:02:04,000 --> 01:02:07,800
Speaker 3: for our actions, right, And one of the consequences of

1001
01:02:07,840 --> 01:02:13,040
Speaker 3: our actions, mine and Travis's is our wives still, you know,

1002
01:02:13,200 --> 01:02:17,360
Speaker 3: to this day, have some trust issues, like and how

1003
01:02:17,360 --> 01:02:20,720
Speaker 3: could they not we gas let them for years? You know,

1004
01:02:21,400 --> 01:02:23,760
Speaker 3: like I I had, I had, I had two teeth

1005
01:02:23,800 --> 01:02:29,880
Speaker 3: pulled in two weeks earlier this year, and the doctor

1006
01:02:29,920 --> 01:02:34,600
Speaker 3: gave me some prescription pay medicine and pills, like you know,

1007
01:02:35,320 --> 01:02:38,560
Speaker 3: I know there's different different schools of thought and degrees

1008
01:02:38,600 --> 01:02:41,800
Speaker 3: on this. Well, if you're if you're you know, if

1009
01:02:41,840 --> 01:02:46,120
Speaker 3: you're sober, you can't have like from alcohol, and that

1010
01:02:46,240 --> 01:02:48,280
Speaker 3: was your thing, you shouldn't take you shouldn't take prescription

1011
01:02:48,360 --> 01:02:50,720
Speaker 3: joy I'm just not of that, right and and it

1012
01:02:50,840 --> 01:02:55,760
Speaker 3: just hasn't They've never been my thing, you know what

1013
01:02:55,800 --> 01:02:59,720
Speaker 3: I mean. But my wife is like, we got the

1014
01:03:01,120 --> 01:03:04,800
Speaker 3: and I didn't find this out until later, but she's like,

1015
01:03:04,960 --> 01:03:08,000
Speaker 3: I counted the pills, so I knew how many you

1016
01:03:08,040 --> 01:03:12,120
Speaker 3: were taking at a time, right, that you weren't going

1017
01:03:12,160 --> 01:03:15,360
Speaker 3: overboard And I wasn't like I took one a day

1018
01:03:15,400 --> 01:03:18,680
Speaker 3: at night, because after you get your teeth pulled like

1019
01:03:19,160 --> 01:03:23,240
Speaker 3: you need it. Sleep is really rough because it's the

1020
01:03:23,320 --> 01:03:25,720
Speaker 3: end of the day. You've been talking, you've been chewing,

1021
01:03:26,160 --> 01:03:29,280
Speaker 3: and it's like, man, you know, but I took the

1022
01:03:29,320 --> 01:03:33,800
Speaker 3: allotted amount. I followed the directions. But when she told

1023
01:03:33,800 --> 01:03:36,960
Speaker 3: me that, she's like, I'm kind of embarrassed, and I'm like,

1024
01:03:37,480 --> 01:03:39,040
Speaker 3: don't be I get it.

1025
01:03:39,680 --> 01:03:44,360
Speaker 2: I absolutely get John, John, I now wear that that

1026
01:03:44,600 --> 01:03:47,400
Speaker 2: moment when if she's trying to provide a layer of

1027
01:03:47,440 --> 01:03:51,800
Speaker 2: accountability and I meet that layer. Yeah, that's an achievement. Man,

1028
01:03:52,040 --> 01:03:56,120
Speaker 2: that's a victory. And praise God. Right because previously I

1029
01:03:56,160 --> 01:03:58,800
Speaker 2: would do any and everything like you would. I'm sure

1030
01:04:00,120 --> 01:04:03,920
Speaker 2: to skirt that responsibility or level of accountability with excuses,

1031
01:04:04,120 --> 01:04:08,360
Speaker 2: lies or some of Yeah, but how dare you not

1032
01:04:08,360 --> 01:04:11,200
Speaker 2: trust me? I'm your husband, right, I mean just think

1033
01:04:11,280 --> 01:04:14,200
Speaker 2: back of all those arguments that that's that were rooted

1034
01:04:14,280 --> 01:04:18,280
Speaker 2: in our abuse of alcohol and drugs. And that's the

1035
01:04:18,280 --> 01:04:20,320
Speaker 2: same encouragement I want to offer too. Like you just

1036
01:04:20,320 --> 01:04:26,000
Speaker 2: said to the spouses, you you don't need to be

1037
01:04:26,120 --> 01:04:29,680
Speaker 2: told that you have the right to think and believe

1038
01:04:29,880 --> 01:04:33,000
Speaker 2: that way even with your spouse and recovery. That is

1039
01:04:33,040 --> 01:04:36,640
Speaker 2: something that is built in realize that what I put

1040
01:04:36,680 --> 01:04:40,560
Speaker 2: my wife through, that's on me. I wear that mantle.

1041
01:04:41,040 --> 01:04:44,760
Speaker 2: Her healing and her ability to move forward is reliant

1042
01:04:44,880 --> 01:04:48,040
Speaker 2: upon my ability to continue to press into the Lord

1043
01:04:48,360 --> 01:04:51,160
Speaker 2: and to continue to do the next right thing, stay

1044
01:04:51,160 --> 01:04:53,640
Speaker 2: in the light, and in my case, work the steps.

1045
01:04:54,040 --> 01:04:57,800
Speaker 2: Yeah right, And so I know if I stay aligned

1046
01:04:57,800 --> 01:05:01,280
Speaker 2: in that way, then the healing that she needs and

1047
01:05:01,320 --> 01:05:04,240
Speaker 2: the trust that our relationship needs not only will be

1048
01:05:04,800 --> 01:05:09,440
Speaker 2: reclaimed and regained, but fully restored. And in that restoration,

1049
01:05:10,640 --> 01:05:16,480
Speaker 2: it's even better than it started. Yeah, yeah, okay, I know.

1050
01:05:16,560 --> 01:05:18,320
Speaker 3: I think I said I was just gonna ask you

1051
01:05:18,320 --> 01:05:20,280
Speaker 3: one question, and that ended up being a lot of them,

1052
01:05:20,280 --> 01:05:25,400
Speaker 3: which is fine, bring us back, Okay. So you reluctantly

1053
01:05:25,960 --> 01:05:29,040
Speaker 3: you acquiesce, You go to Menania Maya talk about the

1054
01:05:29,120 --> 01:05:36,080
Speaker 3: experience of going inpatient to a faith based, gospel centered program.

1055
01:05:36,440 --> 01:05:38,560
Speaker 3: What would what was that like and why did it work?

1056
01:05:40,520 --> 01:05:46,760
Speaker 2: So you had mentioned earlier kind of juxtaposing my treatment experiences, right,

1057
01:05:46,760 --> 01:05:52,360
Speaker 2: So we talked about Pacific Coast. There was inpatient, outpatient

1058
01:05:52,440 --> 01:05:58,000
Speaker 2: sober living out there. There was a outpatient here in

1059
01:05:58,040 --> 01:06:02,280
Speaker 2: the in the Texas area. There were sober living home

1060
01:06:02,280 --> 01:06:08,760
Speaker 2: attempt as well. None that really got to the root

1061
01:06:08,800 --> 01:06:16,800
Speaker 2: cause because I couldn't get there. I wasn't I wasn't vulnerable.

1062
01:06:17,000 --> 01:06:19,840
Speaker 2: I wasn't willing to be vulnerable. I wasn't willing to

1063
01:06:19,920 --> 01:06:25,360
Speaker 2: accept that I needed help in the In those elements

1064
01:06:25,360 --> 01:06:27,960
Speaker 2: of my life, I thought all I had was a

1065
01:06:28,040 --> 01:06:32,920
Speaker 2: drinking problem and a smoking weed problem. Yeah right, And

1066
01:06:32,960 --> 01:06:36,520
Speaker 2: that ultimately wasn't the case. And so what Nehemiah was

1067
01:06:36,560 --> 01:06:40,680
Speaker 2: able to do in a very comprehensive way. And I

1068
01:06:40,720 --> 01:06:43,640
Speaker 2: say comprehensive despite it being a nine month program, but

1069
01:06:43,960 --> 01:06:47,400
Speaker 2: it's comprehensive. And and I will tell you I fully

1070
01:06:47,440 --> 01:06:52,080
Speaker 2: surrendered to the program, but it didn't happen immediately. We

1071
01:06:52,160 --> 01:06:56,320
Speaker 2: talked previously, John about like you saying, oh, I didn't

1072
01:06:56,360 --> 01:06:59,280
Speaker 2: I didn't do what you did, Trev. You know, I

1073
01:06:59,320 --> 01:07:04,360
Speaker 2: didn't quite. But but one of my counselors, who I mean,

1074
01:07:05,120 --> 01:07:07,000
Speaker 2: it's some of the greatest wisdom I've ever heard in

1075
01:07:07,040 --> 01:07:10,000
Speaker 2: my life from this man, Tommy Castillo. He goes, well,

1076
01:07:10,000 --> 01:07:16,440
Speaker 2: you didn't do it yet, yep, right, it's not that

1077
01:07:16,640 --> 01:07:19,479
Speaker 2: it's not you never thought you would go from having

1078
01:07:19,480 --> 01:07:22,480
Speaker 2: a couple of drinks after a game that you won, Travis,

1079
01:07:22,520 --> 01:07:25,760
Speaker 2: to getting drunk in the morning but it took incremental

1080
01:07:25,760 --> 01:07:28,880
Speaker 2: steps because you never thought you'd do that, right, And

1081
01:07:28,960 --> 01:07:32,440
Speaker 2: so for me, my willingness to buy into the Namaya

1082
01:07:32,560 --> 01:07:36,960
Speaker 2: program was incremental to start. It started with acquiescing to

1083
01:07:37,280 --> 01:07:40,080
Speaker 2: my parents and my wife's demand that I go because

1084
01:07:40,280 --> 01:07:43,480
Speaker 2: they weren't going to fund any other treatment center. This

1085
01:07:43,520 --> 01:07:45,400
Speaker 2: one was free. It was in South Dallas, and it

1086
01:07:45,440 --> 01:07:50,120
Speaker 2: was Travis, figure it out or get out. Wow, Okay,

1087
01:07:50,480 --> 01:07:54,640
Speaker 2: I thought we loved each other, right, so some really

1088
01:07:54,680 --> 01:08:01,600
Speaker 2: limited options, right, true? Rock bottom. Then it's arriving there,

1089
01:08:01,920 --> 01:08:05,200
Speaker 2: and John, you've been. You've spoken at our All City

1090
01:08:05,200 --> 01:08:14,280
Speaker 2: worship night. It's different for different reasons, and the spirit's

1091
01:08:14,320 --> 01:08:16,519
Speaker 2: the same. But I'll tell you when I walked in

1092
01:08:16,560 --> 01:08:22,000
Speaker 2: there for the first time and I was greeted, my

1093
01:08:22,120 --> 01:08:26,040
Speaker 2: fear dropped just enough to wonder what this place was.

1094
01:08:26,640 --> 01:08:29,600
Speaker 2: And it wasn't because of what someone did or didn't do,

1095
01:08:30,080 --> 01:08:31,800
Speaker 2: or who was in front of me or who wasn't.

1096
01:08:32,240 --> 01:08:36,800
Speaker 2: There is literally an anointing on this place, and I

1097
01:08:36,840 --> 01:08:42,320
Speaker 2: think it's because they take such diligent care and concern

1098
01:08:42,920 --> 01:08:48,240
Speaker 2: with remaining Gospel centered in everything that they do, which

1099
01:08:48,320 --> 01:08:53,560
Speaker 2: includes working the twelve Steps of AA, which includes individualized

1100
01:08:53,600 --> 01:08:58,000
Speaker 2: counseling and therapy, which includes group therapy, which includes plugging

1101
01:08:58,040 --> 01:09:03,240
Speaker 2: into the community and being of service. And if you

1102
01:09:03,520 --> 01:09:06,639
Speaker 2: tell yourself you can't sing, they're going to pull out

1103
01:09:06,720 --> 01:09:09,320
Speaker 2: the best voice you have because you're going to learn

1104
01:09:09,360 --> 01:09:11,800
Speaker 2: to worship the Lord while you're there, right, And so

1105
01:09:11,920 --> 01:09:15,520
Speaker 2: all these elements combine, right. But it's that first initial

1106
01:09:15,680 --> 01:09:19,360
Speaker 2: walk in where there was a and perhaps I was

1107
01:09:19,360 --> 01:09:22,720
Speaker 2: in a place to receive it also, but there was

1108
01:09:22,960 --> 01:09:27,280
Speaker 2: there was something different that pulled down the wall just

1109
01:09:27,439 --> 01:09:31,160
Speaker 2: enough that I would go through the intake process. The

1110
01:09:31,200 --> 01:09:35,439
Speaker 2: intake happens, I had told myself, no matter what, I'll

1111
01:09:35,479 --> 01:09:39,679
Speaker 2: do two weeks maybe a month to placate Amanda and

1112
01:09:39,360 --> 01:09:45,000
Speaker 2: my family. Within three days of being there, I meet

1113
01:09:45,080 --> 01:09:48,479
Speaker 2: with the director of the program, a woman named Melinda,

1114
01:09:49,120 --> 01:09:53,280
Speaker 2: and it turns out that I had graduated high school

1115
01:09:53,320 --> 01:09:55,760
Speaker 2: with her daughter and ran track with her older son

1116
01:09:56,320 --> 01:09:59,439
Speaker 2: at a very small private school here in Dallas. And

1117
01:09:59,680 --> 01:10:02,800
Speaker 2: this is a woman and her husband who who come

1118
01:10:02,840 --> 01:10:08,719
Speaker 2: from a level of affluency that in my mind, again

1119
01:10:09,040 --> 01:10:12,720
Speaker 2: still thinking very highly of myself and where I come from,

1120
01:10:13,280 --> 01:10:16,880
Speaker 2: not having a real true perspective or scale of what

1121
01:10:16,920 --> 01:10:20,080
Speaker 2: that looks like. I knew who they were. I knew

1122
01:10:20,120 --> 01:10:24,280
Speaker 2: of them, I knew of their kind of status in society.

1123
01:10:24,520 --> 01:10:31,240
Speaker 2: And here it is. She's running a nonprofit drug rehabilitation

1124
01:10:31,439 --> 01:10:34,000
Speaker 2: center in the nastiest part of the town in which

1125
01:10:34,000 --> 01:10:39,120
Speaker 2: she lives. And this is good enough for her. H Okay,

1126
01:10:40,160 --> 01:10:43,120
Speaker 2: might want to reconsider who you think you are, Travis. Right,

1127
01:10:43,160 --> 01:10:46,280
Speaker 2: So boom three days now, that gives me like another

1128
01:10:46,360 --> 01:10:50,519
Speaker 2: week because now that thought's in my head, like, well, Okay,

1129
01:10:50,600 --> 01:10:53,360
Speaker 2: she's running it. Something must be going on, that's right,

1130
01:10:53,400 --> 01:10:56,559
Speaker 2: because I know her family, I know where they come from,

1131
01:10:56,600 --> 01:10:58,400
Speaker 2: I know what they stand for, I know what they're

1132
01:10:58,920 --> 01:11:03,040
Speaker 2: you know they're they're status or their social status is

1133
01:11:03,160 --> 01:11:08,240
Speaker 2: in the city, Like I hope to be someone like

1134
01:11:08,280 --> 01:11:11,000
Speaker 2: that one day. Right, So good enough for her by

1135
01:11:11,000 --> 01:11:13,120
Speaker 2: all means, it should definitely be good enough for me.

1136
01:11:13,320 --> 01:11:17,519
Speaker 2: And she's running it. I can trust that. So the

1137
01:11:17,560 --> 01:11:21,479
Speaker 2: next week progresses and every Saturday, John, there's this thing

1138
01:11:21,520 --> 01:11:25,439
Speaker 2: we call Saturday Morning March, and so we wear fatigues

1139
01:11:25,479 --> 01:11:29,280
Speaker 2: every day, military fatigues, and we march in formation wherever

1140
01:11:29,320 --> 01:11:32,160
Speaker 2: we go. And on Saturday morning we happen to go

1141
01:11:32,280 --> 01:11:37,320
Speaker 2: for almost three miles in and around Cedars, South Dallas,

1142
01:11:37,640 --> 01:11:40,880
Speaker 2: all the way to fair Park in through Dolphin Heights

1143
01:11:41,040 --> 01:11:44,320
Speaker 2: and back around. And for those who don't know that area,

1144
01:11:45,479 --> 01:11:51,360
Speaker 2: significant amount of gang activity, significant amount of prostitution, the

1145
01:11:51,360 --> 01:11:57,559
Speaker 2: most significant amount of concentrated drug use, primarily needles. Then

1146
01:11:58,120 --> 01:12:01,000
Speaker 2: you'll see any part of Dallas Fort Worth, and we

1147
01:12:01,040 --> 01:12:04,960
Speaker 2: are a huge city, but you can literally walk less

1148
01:12:05,000 --> 01:12:08,479
Speaker 2: than fifteen feet look down and see an empty baggie

1149
01:12:08,720 --> 01:12:12,240
Speaker 2: a fentanyl or see a used needle or a spoon

1150
01:12:12,360 --> 01:12:17,080
Speaker 2: or what have you. And so we're marching, and while marching, John,

1151
01:12:17,439 --> 01:12:19,960
Speaker 2: I'm looking around and I'm starting to change my mind

1152
01:12:20,920 --> 01:12:24,599
Speaker 2: because the love and what I felt when I walked

1153
01:12:24,600 --> 01:12:27,080
Speaker 2: in that door had started to wear off. That meeting

1154
01:12:27,240 --> 01:12:30,559
Speaker 2: with Melinda, and that recognition of well, if it's good

1155
01:12:30,640 --> 01:12:33,080
Speaker 2: enough for her, it's definitely good enough for me. That

1156
01:12:33,200 --> 01:12:36,320
Speaker 2: perspective is shifting. And I'm looking at who the sixty

1157
01:12:36,360 --> 01:12:39,000
Speaker 2: men I'm marching with, and some of them had come

1158
01:12:39,040 --> 01:12:42,000
Speaker 2: from under a bridge where they were living for several years.

1159
01:12:42,479 --> 01:12:48,080
Speaker 2: Most of them were heavy drug users. Only a handful

1160
01:12:48,439 --> 01:12:50,120
Speaker 2: of the guys that were there with me that I

1161
01:12:50,120 --> 01:12:55,479
Speaker 2: got to know primarily suffered with alcohol. And I'm just

1162
01:12:55,520 --> 01:12:58,439
Speaker 2: looking around. I'm like, I don't belong here, I don't

1163
01:12:58,479 --> 01:13:01,840
Speaker 2: belong here, and march and we're singing Cadence to Jesus,

1164
01:13:01,960 --> 01:13:05,360
Speaker 2: military style cadence. So imagine being on like a military

1165
01:13:05,360 --> 01:13:09,720
Speaker 2: base and you're hearing there like gung ho, gung ho. Well,

1166
01:13:09,760 --> 01:13:11,599
Speaker 2: we're doing the same thing, but with like Jesus at

1167
01:13:11,600 --> 01:13:15,760
Speaker 2: the center of it at six am, through some nasty neighborhoods,

1168
01:13:16,000 --> 01:13:18,639
Speaker 2: some people who appreciate it, some people who are telling

1169
01:13:18,720 --> 01:13:22,000
Speaker 2: us to, you know, shut it down. And we're going

1170
01:13:22,000 --> 01:13:24,280
Speaker 2: and I'm just looking around like, no, this isn't for me.

1171
01:13:24,560 --> 01:13:27,639
Speaker 2: This what how did it? How did it get here?

1172
01:13:27,800 --> 01:13:30,559
Speaker 2: Like and not how did it get here? By what

1173
01:13:30,640 --> 01:13:32,320
Speaker 2: I did? Like how did it get here?

1174
01:13:32,479 --> 01:13:32,559
Speaker 3: Like?

1175
01:13:33,479 --> 01:13:35,840
Speaker 2: Who said this was the best idea? Right? Trying to

1176
01:13:35,840 --> 01:13:38,760
Speaker 2: point blame it others. And we're walking down Malcolm X

1177
01:13:38,800 --> 01:13:43,479
Speaker 2: Boulevard head I can see fair Park ahead. Look to

1178
01:13:43,560 --> 01:13:50,080
Speaker 2: my right, empty desolate parking lot. Corner store is the

1179
01:13:50,120 --> 01:13:54,120
Speaker 2: only thing with functioning lights and it's an alcohol like

1180
01:13:54,240 --> 01:13:59,160
Speaker 2: beer wine spot with bars on the windows. Around the

1181
01:13:59,160 --> 01:14:04,080
Speaker 2: corner from that is the Manhattan nightclub byob And there's

1182
01:14:04,120 --> 01:14:08,519
Speaker 2: about six to eight people with their possessions right there

1183
01:14:08,600 --> 01:14:14,840
Speaker 2: in their shopping carts, waiting outside the liquor store, and

1184
01:14:14,880 --> 01:14:17,559
Speaker 2: I look at my watch. It's about six forty five

1185
01:14:17,600 --> 01:14:20,800
Speaker 2: at this point, and I say to myself, well, at

1186
01:14:20,880 --> 01:14:24,080
Speaker 2: least it never got that and I couldn't finish the

1187
01:14:24,120 --> 01:14:27,880
Speaker 2: statement it never got that bad, because I immediately start

1188
01:14:27,920 --> 01:14:35,200
Speaker 2: weeping uncontrollably in military fatigues, surrounded by sixty men in

1189
01:14:35,240 --> 01:14:39,639
Speaker 2: a bad, bad part of town. I start to weep

1190
01:14:41,640 --> 01:14:48,280
Speaker 2: because God reminded me it didn't get that bad yet.

1191
01:14:48,680 --> 01:14:52,120
Speaker 2: And the only reason it didn't look that bad is

1192
01:14:52,160 --> 01:14:55,240
Speaker 2: because I happened to be in a suburban neighborhood, outside

1193
01:14:55,240 --> 01:14:59,080
Speaker 2: of a gas station just a mile from my home,

1194
01:15:00,400 --> 01:15:03,360
Speaker 2: in a different style of clothing than what they had.

1195
01:15:04,200 --> 01:15:06,640
Speaker 2: But I had been thrown out of my house, I

1196
01:15:06,720 --> 01:15:10,800
Speaker 2: had no money, and I was waiting to purchase alcohol

1197
01:15:11,360 --> 01:15:15,680
Speaker 2: or steal it, just like those people were. Yeah, the

1198
01:15:16,040 --> 01:15:20,360
Speaker 2: commander of our of our platoon command, Sergeant major comes

1199
01:15:20,400 --> 01:15:24,240
Speaker 2: marching back, head up, you're right where you need to be.

1200
01:15:25,560 --> 01:15:28,080
Speaker 2: Didn't even sound like him. I'd heard him all week long,

1201
01:15:28,160 --> 01:15:32,920
Speaker 2: barking at a stern pt. Wasn't even the same voice.

1202
01:15:33,200 --> 01:15:37,080
Speaker 2: And when I asked him about it after graduation, that

1203
01:15:37,160 --> 01:15:41,400
Speaker 2: nine month period, I asked him you know what inspired

1204
01:15:41,479 --> 01:15:43,040
Speaker 2: him to come back and see me. He can't recall

1205
01:15:43,120 --> 01:15:48,240
Speaker 2: the moment he goes You never cried, John. It was

1206
01:15:48,439 --> 01:15:51,760
Speaker 2: it was that that point where not only did I

1207
01:15:51,800 --> 01:15:54,519
Speaker 2: realize that I was exactly where I needed to be,

1208
01:15:55,200 --> 01:15:58,400
Speaker 2: but it also gave me the perspective that I was

1209
01:15:58,560 --> 01:16:04,160
Speaker 2: just fractionally away from pushing a shopping cart in South

1210
01:16:04,280 --> 01:16:08,320
Speaker 2: Dallas with no family, no support, and a level of

1211
01:16:08,360 --> 01:16:14,840
Speaker 2: desperation that could only be healed through Christ and Neamyah

1212
01:16:15,920 --> 01:16:18,880
Speaker 2: threw that rope out of the boat, asked me to

1213
01:16:18,960 --> 01:16:21,680
Speaker 2: just grab it, and they started pulling me in. And

1214
01:16:21,720 --> 01:16:23,880
Speaker 2: so after about ten days of being there, like I said,

1215
01:16:23,920 --> 01:16:26,479
Speaker 2: the first three, then that next week, and then boom

1216
01:16:26,520 --> 01:16:30,519
Speaker 2: that Saturday March, I decided I would do it for

1217
01:16:30,560 --> 01:16:34,920
Speaker 2: Amanda and the kids. I'm gonna do this right because

1218
01:16:34,960 --> 01:16:36,720
Speaker 2: I can feel that it could be that bad. And

1219
01:16:37,200 --> 01:16:39,879
Speaker 2: that was my motivation. And that's what Tommy, my counselor,

1220
01:16:40,000 --> 01:16:42,400
Speaker 2: kept pushing on me, is like, what's your why? What's

1221
01:16:42,400 --> 01:16:53,040
Speaker 2: your why? Fast forward from then to early September. Amanda's

1222
01:16:53,080 --> 01:16:57,800
Speaker 2: grandmother passes away and Amanda is a woman. Amanda's my wife.

1223
01:16:57,840 --> 01:17:00,559
Speaker 2: Excuse me, yes, this is a woman who raise her

1224
01:17:00,640 --> 01:17:04,040
Speaker 2: as a kid played a significant role in her life.

1225
01:17:04,160 --> 01:17:08,080
Speaker 2: And I'm at church. They took us to church every Sunday.

1226
01:17:08,160 --> 01:17:12,000
Speaker 2: After thirty days of being there, you get the ability

1227
01:17:12,040 --> 01:17:14,519
Speaker 2: to leave on Sunday Sunday only to go to a

1228
01:17:14,600 --> 01:17:17,840
Speaker 2: church service. And I get pulled out of the pew

1229
01:17:18,560 --> 01:17:20,680
Speaker 2: by someone who I'm still close to this day, and

1230
01:17:20,960 --> 01:17:23,960
Speaker 2: he said, Hey, why's on the other phone. Before you

1231
01:17:24,320 --> 01:17:26,840
Speaker 2: get on the line, I want you to know her

1232
01:17:26,880 --> 01:17:30,920
Speaker 2: grandmother passed away, and I kind of know what that

1233
01:17:31,000 --> 01:17:34,760
Speaker 2: meant to her, Like I have an understanding. I know

1234
01:17:34,800 --> 01:17:40,080
Speaker 2: how heavy this was. And I reverted back to some

1235
01:17:40,160 --> 01:17:42,519
Speaker 2: of the teachings that I had received since being there,

1236
01:17:42,680 --> 01:17:46,680
Speaker 2: both in individual counseling and in group counseling, and I

1237
01:17:46,720 --> 01:17:48,640
Speaker 2: start to use some of those tools because all I

1238
01:17:48,720 --> 01:17:50,720
Speaker 2: hear on the other end of the phone is just

1239
01:17:51,160 --> 01:17:54,240
Speaker 2: sorrow and weeping and sadness and my kids crying in

1240
01:17:54,280 --> 01:17:58,000
Speaker 2: the background uncontrollably. And keep in mind, John, I don't

1241
01:17:58,000 --> 01:18:01,600
Speaker 2: get to talk to them. We have no phone. We

1242
01:18:01,640 --> 01:18:04,200
Speaker 2: get a twenty minute phone call once a week. After

1243
01:18:04,320 --> 01:18:09,240
Speaker 2: ninety days. That hasn't even happened yet. So my first

1244
01:18:09,360 --> 01:18:15,240
Speaker 2: verbal interaction with them via phone is after her passing

1245
01:18:16,400 --> 01:18:19,960
Speaker 2: and using those tools that I was given and then

1246
01:18:20,880 --> 01:18:25,439
Speaker 2: hanging up the phone but not feeling the urging or

1247
01:18:25,439 --> 01:18:32,120
Speaker 2: the need to be a rescuer in presence, but knowing

1248
01:18:32,120 --> 01:18:35,840
Speaker 2: that what I was able to communicate was an effective tool.

1249
01:18:36,640 --> 01:18:39,759
Speaker 2: Started to motivate me a little bit, right John, because

1250
01:18:39,760 --> 01:18:41,960
Speaker 2: now I'm starting to see some of the things I'm

1251
01:18:42,040 --> 01:18:44,800
Speaker 2: learning come into practice and come into real life. And

1252
01:18:44,840 --> 01:18:48,839
Speaker 2: I'm like, man that I hate the circumstance, but did

1253
01:18:48,600 --> 01:18:51,840
Speaker 2: that gave me some purpose? Right there? I think that's

1254
01:18:51,880 --> 01:18:54,599
Speaker 2: what being a husband is. I think that's what being

1255
01:18:54,600 --> 01:18:57,800
Speaker 2: a real father is right there. And we get back

1256
01:18:57,800 --> 01:19:01,160
Speaker 2: to our dorm room, and then told me I can

1257
01:19:01,400 --> 01:19:03,880
Speaker 2: follow up with her after church and get a little

1258
01:19:03,880 --> 01:19:06,639
Speaker 2: bit more time to talk through things. And I get

1259
01:19:06,680 --> 01:19:09,599
Speaker 2: there and they escort me to headquarters. And I'm walking

1260
01:19:09,640 --> 01:19:14,679
Speaker 2: over to headquarters and my counselor lives about forty minutes

1261
01:19:14,840 --> 01:19:17,280
Speaker 2: from the workplace, and there he is standing in the

1262
01:19:17,280 --> 01:19:23,439
Speaker 2: parking lot to greet me, and he hugs me and

1263
01:19:23,479 --> 01:19:25,920
Speaker 2: my head falls on his shoulder and I start crying

1264
01:19:26,320 --> 01:19:28,120
Speaker 2: and he goes, I don't I just start saying, I

1265
01:19:28,120 --> 01:19:29,479
Speaker 2: don't know what to do. I don't know what to do,

1266
01:19:29,520 --> 01:19:31,960
Speaker 2: and he goes, I know you're already doing exactly what

1267
01:19:32,000 --> 01:19:34,240
Speaker 2: you've been taught. You're going to keep doing that, and

1268
01:19:34,280 --> 01:19:37,800
Speaker 2: you're going to remind them of how much they love

1269
01:19:37,920 --> 01:19:41,200
Speaker 2: their great grandma and the reason they're feeling that sadness

1270
01:19:41,240 --> 01:19:45,880
Speaker 2: and that sorrow is because they care, because they love her,

1271
01:19:45,920 --> 01:19:48,760
Speaker 2: because they cherish those moments, keep pouring into them. He

1272
01:19:48,800 --> 01:19:51,720
Speaker 2: picks up the phone, calls I'm able to talk to

1273
01:19:51,760 --> 01:19:55,320
Speaker 2: him and John. It was that moment where I started

1274
01:19:55,360 --> 01:19:59,679
Speaker 2: to feel self worth and gain self esteem and see

1275
01:19:59,680 --> 01:20:03,120
Speaker 2: a per because I was actually able to help my

1276
01:20:03,280 --> 01:20:10,040
Speaker 2: wife in a traumatic experience find a little bit of

1277
01:20:10,040 --> 01:20:14,840
Speaker 2: peace in that same vein help my kids alleviate a

1278
01:20:14,840 --> 01:20:19,360
Speaker 2: little bit of sorrow. And then it transformed from doing

1279
01:20:19,400 --> 01:20:23,320
Speaker 2: it for them to realizing God's impact on my life

1280
01:20:23,320 --> 01:20:26,439
Speaker 2: to that point provided me motivation to start doing it

1281
01:20:26,479 --> 01:20:26,960
Speaker 2: for myself.

1282
01:20:27,040 --> 01:20:29,320
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1283
01:20:29,360 --> 01:20:30,840
Speaker 1: Man, that's that's incredible.

1284
01:20:30,920 --> 01:20:35,040
Speaker 3: And you know, I know you you know, you end

1285
01:20:35,120 --> 01:20:38,320
Speaker 3: up obviously sticking with the program, you graduate, You've become

1286
01:20:38,360 --> 01:20:43,320
Speaker 3: a rock star, superstar down there. There's one kind of

1287
01:20:43,720 --> 01:20:46,679
Speaker 3: last thing I want to cover before we sign off,

1288
01:20:46,800 --> 01:20:48,600
Speaker 3: and that is this, And you've you've you've kind of

1289
01:20:48,600 --> 01:20:49,240
Speaker 3: alluded to this.

1290
01:20:49,320 --> 01:20:52,439
Speaker 1: You've talked about what does it?

1291
01:20:53,600 --> 01:20:55,160
Speaker 3: You know, you and I are very aligned on our

1292
01:20:55,200 --> 01:20:59,120
Speaker 3: thoughts about AA, twelve step recovery, Gospel Center recovery, and whatnot.

1293
01:20:59,840 --> 01:21:02,120
Speaker 3: And one thing that I always try to make clear

1294
01:21:02,200 --> 01:21:05,960
Speaker 3: to people is when I talk about A, when I

1295
01:21:05,960 --> 01:21:11,080
Speaker 3: talk about twelve step recovery, I'm not categorically against them.

1296
01:21:11,479 --> 01:21:16,360
Speaker 3: What I'm against is A what it's become in a

1297
01:21:16,360 --> 01:21:21,880
Speaker 3: lot of circles right where you know, I just can't,

1298
01:21:22,240 --> 01:21:26,679
Speaker 3: I can't full throatedly if you will support something as

1299
01:21:26,800 --> 01:21:30,080
Speaker 3: the best route for someone that's not pointing them to Jesus,

1300
01:21:30,120 --> 01:21:32,040
Speaker 3: Like that's what I'm called to do as a Christian

1301
01:21:32,360 --> 01:21:38,720
Speaker 3: right right the kind of program worship that goes on.

1302
01:21:41,040 --> 01:21:45,080
Speaker 3: And and so you've said something that I want to

1303
01:21:45,120 --> 01:21:46,439
Speaker 3: get your thoughts on, which.

1304
01:21:46,240 --> 01:21:48,080
Speaker 1: Is, how do you.

1305
01:21:51,680 --> 01:21:56,599
Speaker 3: How do you approach the twelve steps through a gospel lens?

1306
01:21:56,680 --> 01:21:59,000
Speaker 1: Like what does that look like? What does that mean?

1307
01:21:59,520 --> 01:22:00,639
Speaker 1: And how can others do that?

1308
01:22:02,160 --> 01:22:05,439
Speaker 2: Well? So, looking back at like the Book of James,

1309
01:22:05,439 --> 01:22:11,640
Speaker 2: in the Book of Acts, where Bill w was originally

1310
01:22:11,680 --> 01:22:15,960
Speaker 2: inspired along with the doctor to generate this program of recovery,

1311
01:22:15,960 --> 01:22:18,839
Speaker 2: which we now know is the twelve steps. You see

1312
01:22:19,080 --> 01:22:24,280
Speaker 2: so many gospel elements woven into those twelve steps, but

1313
01:22:25,320 --> 01:22:29,519
Speaker 2: to reach the masses, and at the publisher's behest, I'm

1314
01:22:29,560 --> 01:22:32,640
Speaker 2: sure down the line somewhere it was we're going to

1315
01:22:32,720 --> 01:22:39,440
Speaker 2: say higher Power. And I've had too many personal failures

1316
01:22:40,320 --> 01:22:46,760
Speaker 2: not involving myself intimately with Christ and conversely Christ intimately

1317
01:22:46,800 --> 01:22:54,760
Speaker 2: with me in the recovery journey, because of an over

1318
01:22:54,840 --> 01:22:57,880
Speaker 2: reliance on just doing the work. Just do the work,

1319
01:22:58,160 --> 01:23:01,759
Speaker 2: just do the work. Well, for me, doing the work

1320
01:23:02,000 --> 01:23:06,479
Speaker 2: wasn't enough because I never found freedom, I never found joy,

1321
01:23:06,560 --> 01:23:09,400
Speaker 2: I never found purpose. And I can't say that's the

1322
01:23:09,439 --> 01:23:12,720
Speaker 2: case for everyone. I'm speaking from my own experience. I'm

1323
01:23:12,720 --> 01:23:16,000
Speaker 2: sharing my own strength, I'm sharing my own hope. Those

1324
01:23:16,000 --> 01:23:18,840
Speaker 2: words should resonate loudly with anyone who practices the AA

1325
01:23:18,880 --> 01:23:24,040
Speaker 2: twelve steps experience, strength and hope. Mine came only when

1326
01:23:24,080 --> 01:23:29,000
Speaker 2: I incorporated gospel centered recovery into my twelve step process

1327
01:23:29,400 --> 01:23:31,840
Speaker 2: that was given to me by the program of AA.

1328
01:23:32,560 --> 01:23:36,680
Speaker 2: And in doing that, what I found out is I

1329
01:23:36,760 --> 01:23:44,600
Speaker 2: started seeking more purpose. I started seeking more reasons to

1330
01:23:44,640 --> 01:23:48,400
Speaker 2: share my testimony to others. I started seeking ways I

1331
01:23:48,439 --> 01:23:51,040
Speaker 2: could be of better service to others, not because I

1332
01:23:51,120 --> 01:23:53,320
Speaker 2: was doing it because one of the steps told me to,

1333
01:23:53,840 --> 01:23:55,640
Speaker 2: but because I was seeking to be more like my

1334
01:23:55,680 --> 01:23:59,400
Speaker 2: Lord and Savior. Yeah, And in doing that, all these

1335
01:23:59,439 --> 01:24:02,920
Speaker 2: other lam became even easier in life. And now my

1336
01:24:03,080 --> 01:24:07,559
Speaker 2: reliance shifted from attending a meeting every day or two

1337
01:24:08,240 --> 01:24:14,240
Speaker 2: or three three two, relying on the Lord to do

1338
01:24:14,439 --> 01:24:17,840
Speaker 2: his work through me if I would abide in him,

1339
01:24:19,479 --> 01:24:22,880
Speaker 2: act on the calling He's placed on my heart, right,

1340
01:24:23,439 --> 01:24:26,679
Speaker 2: And through that I found myself of service to others

1341
01:24:26,680 --> 01:24:29,040
Speaker 2: in a way I never experienced before, much like that

1342
01:24:29,080 --> 01:24:32,840
Speaker 2: moment in September, being of service to my wife and kids.

1343
01:24:33,360 --> 01:24:35,600
Speaker 2: And through that I found my true calling and my

1344
01:24:35,720 --> 01:24:39,400
Speaker 2: purpose and now I'm living it. And John, I've never

1345
01:24:40,560 --> 01:24:45,960
Speaker 2: felt more fulfilled days in my life stack one on

1346
01:24:46,000 --> 01:24:49,400
Speaker 2: the other, twenty four after twenty four than I felt

1347
01:24:49,479 --> 01:24:53,120
Speaker 2: in this past eighteen to twenty four months. Right, And

1348
01:24:54,080 --> 01:24:57,080
Speaker 2: that came because of a divine appointment. But it wouldn't

1349
01:24:57,120 --> 01:25:04,479
Speaker 2: have happened if I simply married myself to four walls

1350
01:25:04,760 --> 01:25:10,400
Speaker 2: and man based literature. Yeah, immediately, yeah, right, exactly. You know,

1351
01:25:10,720 --> 01:25:14,080
Speaker 2: it just didn't. It never resonated with me before, and

1352
01:25:14,120 --> 01:25:17,479
Speaker 2: it certainly wouldn't have worked this time around. What worked

1353
01:25:17,640 --> 01:25:20,840
Speaker 2: was what Nehemiah it inspired me to do, which was

1354
01:25:20,880 --> 01:25:24,960
Speaker 2: pursue a deeper relationship with my Lord and Savior, humble myself,

1355
01:25:25,320 --> 01:25:30,760
Speaker 2: learn to serve, be vulnerable, and enter into fellowship with

1356
01:25:30,800 --> 01:25:34,759
Speaker 2: the Lord through worship, something that I never really took seriously.

1357
01:25:34,920 --> 01:25:36,559
Speaker 2: I was one of those guys at church, John, I

1358
01:25:36,600 --> 01:25:39,160
Speaker 2: know you can relate. Not that I'm saying you were one.

1359
01:25:39,479 --> 01:25:41,760
Speaker 2: I bet you can sing, But I was one of

1360
01:25:41,800 --> 01:25:43,920
Speaker 2: the guys who who you know, I pretended to be

1361
01:25:43,960 --> 01:25:46,640
Speaker 2: a drummer at church. I'd stand up, you wouldn't hear

1362
01:25:46,680 --> 01:25:48,280
Speaker 2: me say a word, but I would do the pitter

1363
01:25:48,320 --> 01:25:50,280
Speaker 2: patter on the chair in front of me, you know.

1364
01:25:50,400 --> 01:25:52,400
Speaker 2: And that was my contribution to the worship at that

1365
01:25:52,439 --> 01:25:55,080
Speaker 2: time at church service, right, And so you know that

1366
01:25:55,280 --> 01:25:58,559
Speaker 2: was me getting into the Lord baby right. Well now,

1367
01:25:59,040 --> 01:26:03,200
Speaker 2: I mean I've heard front row, back row, sidewall, backwall, wherever.

1368
01:26:03,600 --> 01:26:08,479
Speaker 2: I will not sing, I worship, but I cannot say

1369
01:26:08,520 --> 01:26:12,080
Speaker 2: I see right. And it was that softening of my

1370
01:26:12,280 --> 01:26:15,680
Speaker 2: heart that I think really allowed me to understand what

1371
01:26:15,840 --> 01:26:18,960
Speaker 2: God was doing in me and submit myself more fully

1372
01:26:19,000 --> 01:26:21,800
Speaker 2: to Him. And it's that same approach I think that

1373
01:26:21,840 --> 01:26:25,960
Speaker 2: gospel centered recovery can provide someone because when you aim

1374
01:26:26,200 --> 01:26:31,759
Speaker 2: to achieve recovery through the lens of being in Christ

1375
01:26:31,920 --> 01:26:38,640
Speaker 2: light first. Yeah, the sobriety, the mental healing, the anxiety, depression,

1376
01:26:38,840 --> 01:26:43,719
Speaker 2: all of that becomes minimized because it seems like something

1377
01:26:43,760 --> 01:26:47,320
Speaker 2: can be achievable. Small victories can be had each and along,

1378
01:26:47,560 --> 01:26:51,559
Speaker 2: each step along the way because ultimately we're serving our

1379
01:26:51,600 --> 01:26:54,760
Speaker 2: Lord and Savior first. We're doing what He's asking us

1380
01:26:54,840 --> 01:27:00,000
Speaker 2: to do first. And kind of in a really cool way,

1381
01:27:00,560 --> 01:27:04,599
Speaker 2: these other things just happened. Seek first. They just happened.

1382
01:27:05,360 --> 01:27:07,919
Speaker 3: Seek first the Kingdom of God, and all these things

1383
01:27:08,200 --> 01:27:10,880
Speaker 3: will be added unto you, right, you just kind of

1384
01:27:10,920 --> 01:27:16,400
Speaker 3: love when the Bible is true. Travis Man, thank you

1385
01:27:16,439 --> 01:27:20,799
Speaker 3: so much. Thanks for your openness, your honesty, your vulnerability.

1386
01:27:22,360 --> 01:27:26,720
Speaker 3: By the time this airs, I'm pretty sure will have

1387
01:27:28,120 --> 01:27:30,360
Speaker 3: people will have known you a little bit better because

1388
01:27:30,760 --> 01:27:34,559
Speaker 3: of your involvement in Veritas Recovery as one of our

1389
01:27:35,000 --> 01:27:39,720
Speaker 3: founding founding board members. And so I just I just

1390
01:27:39,800 --> 01:27:46,439
Speaker 3: thank you for your willingness, your energy, your passion for

1391
01:27:46,479 --> 01:27:52,439
Speaker 3: gospel centered recovery. And uh, you know, I I never

1392
01:27:52,439 --> 01:27:54,960
Speaker 3: would imagine three years ago that I meet someone like

1393
01:27:55,040 --> 01:27:57,639
Speaker 3: you that then not only becomes a friend, but becomes

1394
01:27:57,680 --> 01:28:02,360
Speaker 3: a fellow co laborer in this, in this, in this work,

1395
01:28:02,600 --> 01:28:06,000
Speaker 3: and I just can't imagine any doing it with anyone else.

1396
01:28:06,040 --> 01:28:09,679
Speaker 3: So thank you so much, love you, brother, and we'll,

1397
01:28:10,920 --> 01:28:12,439
Speaker 3: like I said, people have seen a lot more of

1398
01:28:12,600 --> 01:28:16,439
Speaker 3: more of you in several platforms that I am a

1399
01:28:16,439 --> 01:28:16,720
Speaker 3: part of.

1400
01:28:17,000 --> 01:28:19,519
Speaker 2: So thank God, willing, I love you, brother, thank you

1401
01:28:19,560 --> 01:28:22,759
Speaker 2: for this opportunity, and thank you to the Veritas community

1402
01:28:22,760 --> 01:28:27,120
Speaker 2: at large for allowing me to share. So praise God.

1403
01:28:27,600 --> 01:28:31,320
Speaker 3: You know, I forget that when Travis tells that story

1404
01:28:31,320 --> 01:28:34,080
Speaker 3: about being on the bridge, that that is May twenty seventh,

1405
01:28:34,760 --> 01:28:37,479
Speaker 3: and you know it's a significant day for me as well,

1406
01:28:37,600 --> 01:28:41,400
Speaker 3: that we basically Travis and I share that rock bottom

1407
01:28:41,439 --> 01:28:42,880
Speaker 3: moment date and I.

1408
01:28:42,840 --> 01:28:43,519
Speaker 1: Have that tattooed.

1409
01:28:43,520 --> 01:28:46,400
Speaker 3: If you're watching on the Veritas Daily dot com, you'll

1410
01:28:46,400 --> 01:28:49,000
Speaker 3: see I'm holding up my arm. I have May twenty seventh,

1411
01:28:49,439 --> 01:28:51,720
Speaker 3: twenty twenty three tattooed on my arm. So it's not

1412
01:28:51,800 --> 01:28:54,880
Speaker 3: even just the actual date, it's the year as well.

1413
01:28:55,120 --> 01:28:57,040
Speaker 3: And so it's just so cool to me that God

1414
01:28:57,320 --> 01:29:00,599
Speaker 3: was in a sense weaving our stories to gather in

1415
01:29:00,640 --> 01:29:04,040
Speaker 3: ways and long before we even knew it. And so

1416
01:29:04,240 --> 01:29:10,519
Speaker 3: I just man, Travis is is someone that I am

1417
01:29:10,640 --> 01:29:15,120
Speaker 3: so honored to do ministry ministry with and our stories

1418
01:29:15,160 --> 01:29:20,840
Speaker 3: are so very similar and yet different, right, And maybe

1419
01:29:20,880 --> 01:29:23,799
Speaker 3: you're listening to this and you found that your story

1420
01:29:23,840 --> 01:29:27,800
Speaker 3: is similar, and I just want to encourage you that

1421
01:29:27,840 --> 01:29:32,800
Speaker 3: there's a place for you that you can can open up,

1422
01:29:33,280 --> 01:29:37,599
Speaker 3: that telling your story does not disqualify you, and that

1423
01:29:37,640 --> 01:29:40,280
Speaker 3: there are people waiting to hear it. And so I

1424
01:29:40,320 --> 01:29:42,920
Speaker 3: talked about Veritas Recovery in the beginning, and you can

1425
01:29:42,920 --> 01:29:45,160
Speaker 3: go to Veritasrecovery dot org. We have a Sunday night

1426
01:29:45,600 --> 01:29:50,120
Speaker 3: meeting that we host and I would love to see

1427
01:29:50,160 --> 01:29:53,680
Speaker 3: you on there. It's open to anyone and it's the

1428
01:29:53,760 --> 01:29:56,240
Speaker 3: opportunity for you to be radically vulnerable to meet people

1429
01:29:56,360 --> 01:29:59,000
Speaker 3: like you. And yet if you heard this, if you

1430
01:29:59,000 --> 01:30:01,400
Speaker 3: heard Travis's story, you're like, this is very different. I

1431
01:30:01,400 --> 01:30:05,040
Speaker 3: would say that that that's okay as well, Right, don't

1432
01:30:05,080 --> 01:30:08,639
Speaker 3: get lost or caught up in the comparison trap as

1433
01:30:08,640 --> 01:30:11,560
Speaker 3: you heard like that that I think is one of

1434
01:30:11,600 --> 01:30:12,559
Speaker 3: the devil's greatest tools.

1435
01:30:12,600 --> 01:30:14,400
Speaker 1: Well, I'm not that bad. I'm not doing that right.

1436
01:30:14,439 --> 01:30:17,040
Speaker 3: And you know, Travis talked about that you know, he's

1437
01:30:17,040 --> 01:30:20,599
Speaker 3: sitting He's sitting there and he's he's has that moment

1438
01:30:20,640 --> 01:30:22,840
Speaker 3: where he's like, well, at least I'm not and then

1439
01:30:22,880 --> 01:30:26,240
Speaker 3: he stops himself and realizes, I'm doing the thing that

1440
01:30:26,560 --> 01:30:29,599
Speaker 3: I said at least I'm not. You know, I'm doing

1441
01:30:29,640 --> 01:30:31,719
Speaker 3: the thing I never said i'd do. I'm the person

1442
01:30:31,760 --> 01:30:34,720
Speaker 3: I thought i'd never become. And I can't tell you

1443
01:30:34,760 --> 01:30:37,080
Speaker 3: when I became that person. It's a slow fade, like

1444
01:30:37,120 --> 01:30:39,280
Speaker 3: I say in my book, but yet it was there.

1445
01:30:39,640 --> 01:30:41,920
Speaker 3: And so listen. My hope is that you don't have

1446
01:30:42,000 --> 01:30:44,559
Speaker 3: a story like this. My hope is that you're listening

1447
01:30:44,600 --> 01:30:48,639
Speaker 3: to this and you're realizing, you know what, I'm being

1448
01:30:48,760 --> 01:30:55,360
Speaker 3: convicted to address my drinking, and perhaps I can catch

1449
01:30:55,400 --> 01:30:58,280
Speaker 3: it before it gets to the point of Travis, before

1450
01:30:58,280 --> 01:30:59,400
Speaker 3: it gets to the point of John.

1451
01:30:59,400 --> 01:31:01,880
Speaker 1: And I would say, you are just as welcome. You

1452
01:31:01,960 --> 01:31:04,719
Speaker 1: are just as welcome in our community.

1453
01:31:04,960 --> 01:31:08,960
Speaker 3: So with that said, please visit Life Audio. You can

1454
01:31:09,040 --> 01:31:11,240
Speaker 3: go to life audio dot com and listen to other

1455
01:31:11,280 --> 01:31:15,240
Speaker 3: great podcasts. My friend Christy Osborne and Love Life Sober.

1456
01:31:15,320 --> 01:31:17,320
Speaker 3: She just recently had John Orkberg on which I think

1457
01:31:17,320 --> 01:31:19,519
Speaker 3: we're going to be working to get him on this

1458
01:31:19,600 --> 01:31:22,880
Speaker 3: podcast as well, and then if you want to pick

1459
01:31:22,960 --> 01:31:25,240
Speaker 3: up my book, Confessions of a Chritian Alcoholic, can go

1460
01:31:25,240 --> 01:31:27,519
Speaker 3: to Christianlcoholic dot com as well, and it is still

1461
01:31:27,560 --> 01:31:30,800
Speaker 3: thirty percent off the publisher, so you can pick that up.

1462
01:31:31,200 --> 01:31:33,840
Speaker 1: Love you all, we'll see you back here again next

1463
01:31:33,840 --> 01:31:34,160
Speaker 1: week