1 00:00:20,196 --> 00:00:23,236 Speaker 1: Hi friend, I'm so glad you're here today. Let's learn 2 00:00:23,276 --> 00:00:26,916 Speaker 1: how to raise our kids to love God, respect authority, 3 00:00:27,196 --> 00:00:31,036 Speaker 1: and do what's right. Let's scroll less and live more. 4 00:00:31,356 --> 00:00:34,476 Speaker 1: I'm Arlene Pelicane and this is the Happy Home. 5 00:00:37,836 --> 00:00:38,315 Speaker 2: Friends. 6 00:00:38,516 --> 00:00:41,276 Speaker 1: Get ready, we are gonna not only get organized, but 7 00:00:41,316 --> 00:00:43,196 Speaker 1: we're going to do it with some fun. We have 8 00:00:43,396 --> 00:00:46,236 Speaker 1: Katie Wells here. She is the podcast host of The 9 00:00:46,316 --> 00:00:50,755 Speaker 1: Maximized Minimalist. Try saying that five times really fast as 10 00:00:50,796 --> 00:00:53,796 Speaker 1: a tongue twister, right, Katie, and she has had over 11 00:00:53,916 --> 00:00:58,356 Speaker 1: five million downloads. She has a new book, Making Home 12 00:00:58,676 --> 00:01:02,556 Speaker 1: Your Happy Place, a real life guide to decluttering without 13 00:01:02,596 --> 00:01:05,196 Speaker 1: the overwhelm. When I heard that title being the Happy 14 00:01:05,276 --> 00:01:08,316 Speaker 1: Home Podcast, I was like, Okay, that's pretty much perfect. 15 00:01:08,916 --> 00:01:12,156 Speaker 2: Let's make our home a happy place. Katie, Welcome to 16 00:01:12,196 --> 00:01:12,916 Speaker 2: the podcast. 17 00:01:13,356 --> 00:01:16,076 Speaker 3: Thanks for having me so excited to be here you. 18 00:01:16,316 --> 00:01:18,876 Speaker 1: I believe you stay on your podcast. Ready, set simple, 19 00:01:19,636 --> 00:01:22,316 Speaker 1: and that's what we are about to do. And we 20 00:01:22,356 --> 00:01:25,595 Speaker 1: are going to get to your very dramatic turning point 21 00:01:25,676 --> 00:01:28,676 Speaker 1: story of kind of how you started this decluttering journey. 22 00:01:28,715 --> 00:01:31,996 Speaker 1: But I want to just reward the listener right away 23 00:01:32,596 --> 00:01:35,756 Speaker 1: by saying, Okay, we've got all this clutter. We're kind 24 00:01:35,756 --> 00:01:39,956 Speaker 1: of overwhelmed. You say, there are four types of clutter? 25 00:01:40,075 --> 00:01:42,356 Speaker 1: Can we go there first to understand what is it 26 00:01:42,396 --> 00:01:44,435 Speaker 1: that we are looking at in our living room right now? 27 00:01:45,155 --> 00:01:47,796 Speaker 3: Yes, it's so important, and for me in my own 28 00:01:47,916 --> 00:01:50,756 Speaker 3: decluttering journey, it was such an aha moment. It's why 29 00:01:50,796 --> 00:01:53,956 Speaker 3: decluttering can feel really easy for maybe you and not 30 00:01:54,036 --> 00:01:56,156 Speaker 3: your partner, or maybe you're really good at getting run 31 00:01:56,596 --> 00:01:58,956 Speaker 3: type of clutter out, but other ones you really struggle with. 32 00:01:59,476 --> 00:02:02,035 Speaker 3: So I always say, let's start with the easy stuff, right, 33 00:02:02,156 --> 00:02:03,916 Speaker 3: just like when you go into the gym, you don't 34 00:02:03,956 --> 00:02:07,556 Speaker 3: expect to bench press fifty pounds. And that's I think 35 00:02:07,556 --> 00:02:09,756 Speaker 3: what a lot of us recognize, like sentimental clutter, which 36 00:02:09,796 --> 00:02:11,516 Speaker 3: we'll talk about that in a second. Like it's like 37 00:02:11,756 --> 00:02:13,836 Speaker 3: I struggle with that. I have boxes, you know, in 38 00:02:13,876 --> 00:02:16,716 Speaker 3: my garage. I've moved them around the country eight billion times, 39 00:02:17,116 --> 00:02:19,676 Speaker 3: and we think we need to start there. We don't. 40 00:02:19,716 --> 00:02:21,876 Speaker 3: We'll start with superficial clutter. So if you look at 41 00:02:21,876 --> 00:02:25,756 Speaker 3: clutter like an onion, I like to cook onions apparently, 42 00:02:25,796 --> 00:02:28,236 Speaker 3: so this is my food analogy totally. Like think about 43 00:02:28,236 --> 00:02:30,395 Speaker 3: an onion, right, the outer layer, like even before you 44 00:02:30,436 --> 00:02:32,236 Speaker 3: get out of the grocery store. It's like falling off. 45 00:02:32,356 --> 00:02:34,356 Speaker 3: It's like kind of gross, but it comes off with 46 00:02:34,636 --> 00:02:38,076 Speaker 3: ease totally. Official clutter is the same in the sense 47 00:02:38,115 --> 00:02:41,316 Speaker 3: that you don't necessarily need a strategy, mindset, shift, or 48 00:02:41,395 --> 00:02:43,516 Speaker 3: reframe to tackle it. You just need a little time 49 00:02:43,555 --> 00:02:47,676 Speaker 3: and attention. And this is again there's no emotion, no 50 00:02:48,076 --> 00:02:51,196 Speaker 3: kind of mind doing negotiations with you on well that 51 00:02:51,716 --> 00:02:53,836 Speaker 3: could come in handy. This is the duplicate stuff. You know, 52 00:02:53,835 --> 00:02:57,435 Speaker 3: you don't need the excess, the unwanted. There's no negotiation 53 00:02:57,555 --> 00:03:00,636 Speaker 3: process happening. For most homes are lean too. This is 54 00:03:00,675 --> 00:03:03,916 Speaker 3: only about ten to twenty percent of the total clutter. 55 00:03:04,076 --> 00:03:07,155 Speaker 3: So this is also why so many of us tackle 56 00:03:07,236 --> 00:03:09,836 Speaker 3: that first. Naturally we should, we want the easy wins. 57 00:03:09,835 --> 00:03:12,995 Speaker 3: This builds momentum, but then we the second we hit 58 00:03:12,996 --> 00:03:14,956 Speaker 3: a deeper layer of clutter, which we often don't recognize 59 00:03:15,036 --> 00:03:17,756 Speaker 3: until now I feel better, I feel good, and then 60 00:03:17,796 --> 00:03:20,156 Speaker 3: two days later it looks like you did nothing and 61 00:03:20,196 --> 00:03:22,675 Speaker 3: it feels like one step forward eighteen steps back. Okay, 62 00:03:22,716 --> 00:03:24,595 Speaker 3: so we have to add weight to the bar, just 63 00:03:24,675 --> 00:03:26,796 Speaker 3: like just like at the gym. Okay. So the next 64 00:03:27,196 --> 00:03:31,036 Speaker 3: layer in your declutter onion or clutter onion. Scarcity clutter, 65 00:03:31,115 --> 00:03:33,275 Speaker 3: This is a doozy thing about how we're wired, how 66 00:03:33,276 --> 00:03:36,516 Speaker 3: we are created. Our brains are wired to crave order. 67 00:03:36,916 --> 00:03:38,916 Speaker 3: Our brains are also wired we don't like to feel 68 00:03:38,916 --> 00:03:43,436 Speaker 3: like we're losing something. It's a psychological concept called loss aversion. 69 00:03:43,756 --> 00:03:46,796 Speaker 3: So scarcity clutter is rooted in fear, the just in 70 00:03:46,876 --> 00:03:49,236 Speaker 3: case stuff. I paid money for this, what if I 71 00:03:49,316 --> 00:03:51,716 Speaker 3: need this? This could come in handy, well, this is useful, 72 00:03:52,076 --> 00:03:54,756 Speaker 3: all those patterns. So many of us think it's just 73 00:03:54,756 --> 00:03:56,516 Speaker 3: because of how we're wired, And I like to bring 74 00:03:56,516 --> 00:03:59,556 Speaker 3: that part up because there's so much shame I think 75 00:03:59,636 --> 00:04:02,476 Speaker 3: for a lot of families to struggle with clutter because 76 00:04:02,476 --> 00:04:05,236 Speaker 3: we're comparing ourselves and it seems easy for everyone else. 77 00:04:05,636 --> 00:04:08,315 Speaker 3: But again, it's just how so many we're wired this way, 78 00:04:08,396 --> 00:04:11,596 Speaker 3: So no wonder it feels hard to challenge that type 79 00:04:11,596 --> 00:04:15,036 Speaker 3: of clutter. Right then we have sentimental clutter. A lot 80 00:04:15,076 --> 00:04:17,836 Speaker 3: of people are really good at self identifying with sentimental clutter. 81 00:04:18,196 --> 00:04:20,996 Speaker 3: The wedding draft, the baby shoes, there's some emotional ties 82 00:04:21,036 --> 00:04:24,116 Speaker 3: to the memory of the nostalgia and then kind of 83 00:04:24,156 --> 00:04:25,996 Speaker 3: at the core and this one, I think again, it 84 00:04:26,076 --> 00:04:28,276 Speaker 3: was so big for me, and I think even especially 85 00:04:28,276 --> 00:04:31,876 Speaker 3: as a Christian, it's like this identity clutter, it's really sneaky. 86 00:04:32,196 --> 00:04:34,836 Speaker 3: It's tied to who you used to be, or who 87 00:04:34,916 --> 00:04:38,436 Speaker 3: you think you should be, or who you even want 88 00:04:38,436 --> 00:04:41,276 Speaker 3: to be. And this is, you know, the clothing from 89 00:04:41,315 --> 00:04:45,116 Speaker 3: an old career. I remember wearing this clothing and feeling successful. 90 00:04:45,276 --> 00:04:48,676 Speaker 3: Or it's the textbooks you studied and put blood, sweat 91 00:04:48,716 --> 00:04:50,636 Speaker 3: and tears in so much time and energy into to 92 00:04:50,716 --> 00:04:53,596 Speaker 3: graduating college. Like these things about these really pivotal life 93 00:04:53,676 --> 00:04:56,716 Speaker 3: changing moments that just like kind of make you you. 94 00:04:57,755 --> 00:05:00,755 Speaker 3: But that stuff can become clutter throughout the years. And 95 00:05:01,076 --> 00:05:04,276 Speaker 3: so kind of learning these different clutter types and giving 96 00:05:04,356 --> 00:05:08,556 Speaker 3: names to them, giving language because words matter, really helped 97 00:05:08,556 --> 00:05:11,716 Speaker 3: me go, Okay, well, that's why the twenty twenty rule 98 00:05:11,836 --> 00:05:14,395 Speaker 3: isn't working for identity clutter or like this spark joy 99 00:05:14,516 --> 00:05:17,596 Speaker 3: question was like not working for me here people, you know, 100 00:05:18,276 --> 00:05:20,556 Speaker 3: it's just and so looking at it from that lens, 101 00:05:20,636 --> 00:05:23,476 Speaker 3: I think again gives us language. It brings awareness. And 102 00:05:23,516 --> 00:05:26,076 Speaker 3: when I identify these different patterns that were like the 103 00:05:26,076 --> 00:05:29,395 Speaker 3: negotiation process I'm talking about, then we can learn to 104 00:05:29,436 --> 00:05:31,196 Speaker 3: reach for the right tool in our tool belt just 105 00:05:31,236 --> 00:05:33,516 Speaker 3: like we don't build a house with one tool a 106 00:05:33,556 --> 00:05:35,395 Speaker 3: hammer and a nail and a two by four. We 107 00:05:35,516 --> 00:05:39,116 Speaker 3: have all these different tools we need for decluttering too. 108 00:05:39,476 --> 00:05:42,156 Speaker 1: So it's not only like oh the goodwill pile, like 109 00:05:42,195 --> 00:05:44,955 Speaker 1: we have other tools. Okay, let's go back to that closet. 110 00:05:44,996 --> 00:05:47,836 Speaker 1: So let's say we are looking at that closet and 111 00:05:47,876 --> 00:05:51,076 Speaker 1: there are you know, ten suits kind of thing, like 112 00:05:51,195 --> 00:05:53,156 Speaker 1: I have a warn those things in ten years, but 113 00:05:53,195 --> 00:05:56,676 Speaker 1: who knows, maybe I might Like that is real because 114 00:05:56,716 --> 00:06:00,236 Speaker 1: you think to yourself, that was expensive. Someday I might 115 00:06:00,315 --> 00:06:02,596 Speaker 1: use it. Maybe ten years have gone by and I 116 00:06:02,636 --> 00:06:04,916 Speaker 1: haven't used them. Maybe these things will come back in 117 00:06:04,956 --> 00:06:06,956 Speaker 1: fashion again, because that tends to happen. 118 00:06:07,156 --> 00:06:08,595 Speaker 2: There are moments where I think. 119 00:06:08,436 --> 00:06:11,315 Speaker 1: I should have held on to that, you know, nineteen 120 00:06:11,396 --> 00:06:13,156 Speaker 1: eighties thing that would have been like people would pay 121 00:06:13,195 --> 00:06:16,116 Speaker 1: good money for that. Okay, so talk to us about 122 00:06:16,156 --> 00:06:19,596 Speaker 1: like do we get less of it, do we keep 123 00:06:19,676 --> 00:06:22,476 Speaker 1: one of it? Do we what would that next step be? 124 00:06:22,636 --> 00:06:26,596 Speaker 1: Like we've identified Okay, I have this identity wardrobe that 125 00:06:26,636 --> 00:06:29,476 Speaker 1: I'm probably not going to wear again, but maybe I could. 126 00:06:29,755 --> 00:06:30,836 Speaker 2: What do I do next? 127 00:06:31,356 --> 00:06:34,236 Speaker 3: Yeah, So what you're describing again, it's the nuance of clutter. Right, 128 00:06:34,276 --> 00:06:37,556 Speaker 3: it's not just all scarcity or identity. So this costs money, 129 00:06:37,636 --> 00:06:39,955 Speaker 3: this could be trending. Again, I don't wear it now 130 00:06:39,996 --> 00:06:42,876 Speaker 3: on paper. I recognize it's clutter, and it's also tied 131 00:06:42,876 --> 00:06:44,556 Speaker 3: to a version of me I used to be. So 132 00:06:44,596 --> 00:06:47,996 Speaker 3: one of my favorite things, favorite frameworks I created is 133 00:06:48,116 --> 00:06:50,836 Speaker 3: again I'm not a therapist, I'm a decluttering expert, and 134 00:06:51,076 --> 00:06:53,716 Speaker 3: I had a deeply personal declutter journey which led me 135 00:06:53,796 --> 00:06:57,195 Speaker 3: to looking at us as humans, not just like our stuff. 136 00:06:57,236 --> 00:07:01,236 Speaker 3: So holistic decluttering my philosophy focuses on what's happening internally. 137 00:07:01,315 --> 00:07:03,476 Speaker 3: That's a huge part of the process. It's just under 138 00:07:03,516 --> 00:07:06,116 Speaker 3: talked about. So I'm like, okay, what works from like 139 00:07:06,116 --> 00:07:08,236 Speaker 3: a holistic lens. What are we combating here? What are 140 00:07:08,276 --> 00:07:10,476 Speaker 3: we up against? We're up against old beliefs. We're up 141 00:07:10,476 --> 00:07:12,716 Speaker 3: against beliefs we don't even recognize. We're running the show 142 00:07:13,036 --> 00:07:15,556 Speaker 3: old programming like fifty tabs back in our brain, but 143 00:07:15,596 --> 00:07:18,476 Speaker 3: it's telling us we're afraid. Don't let go. So I 144 00:07:18,556 --> 00:07:21,436 Speaker 3: created what's called the four S framework. It's an acronym. 145 00:07:21,476 --> 00:07:23,356 Speaker 3: They're all assays. Will go through those really quickly. 146 00:07:23,516 --> 00:07:23,796 Speaker 2: Please. 147 00:07:23,836 --> 00:07:27,276 Speaker 3: You can use it for scarcity, sentimental identity. It's just 148 00:07:27,316 --> 00:07:29,436 Speaker 3: a great tool to add to your toolbox, so to speak, 149 00:07:29,516 --> 00:07:33,636 Speaker 3: for decluttering, and it's rooted in CBT cognitive behavioral therapy. 150 00:07:33,676 --> 00:07:37,156 Speaker 3: It works really well. So when we have these thoughts, 151 00:07:37,476 --> 00:07:39,716 Speaker 3: this could come in handy. This could be qute twenty 152 00:07:39,796 --> 00:07:41,836 Speaker 3: or schrom house could be worth money. Whenever that is. 153 00:07:42,676 --> 00:07:45,676 Speaker 3: We meet it first with spotting the thought. Right, we've 154 00:07:45,676 --> 00:07:47,876 Speaker 3: already done that, so you spot the thought. Here's the thing. 155 00:07:47,916 --> 00:07:50,716 Speaker 3: A lot of people spot that thought and then instead 156 00:07:50,716 --> 00:07:53,316 Speaker 3: of going to the next step, they judge themselves or 157 00:07:53,316 --> 00:07:55,636 Speaker 3: they just give up. They judge themselves this Why is 158 00:07:55,636 --> 00:07:57,916 Speaker 3: this so hard for me? I'm frustrated? Or they're just like, 159 00:07:58,116 --> 00:07:59,916 Speaker 3: forget it, I'll look at this another day. We all 160 00:07:59,956 --> 00:08:02,596 Speaker 3: know how that story ends. So heading into the second 161 00:08:02,716 --> 00:08:05,756 Speaker 3: s is to soften that thought. Don't bulldoze the fear, 162 00:08:06,196 --> 00:08:10,236 Speaker 3: don't try not to judge yourself. Just meet it with compassion. 163 00:08:10,476 --> 00:08:12,236 Speaker 3: Of course I feel this way, of course, I feel 164 00:08:12,276 --> 00:08:15,316 Speaker 3: this is a normal human experience I'm having. And then 165 00:08:15,356 --> 00:08:17,956 Speaker 3: we head into step three, which is shift it, shift 166 00:08:17,996 --> 00:08:21,836 Speaker 3: the thought, reframe the thought. This item already served its purpose. 167 00:08:22,236 --> 00:08:25,116 Speaker 3: I don't need this anymore. I trust myself that I 168 00:08:25,156 --> 00:08:28,316 Speaker 3: am resourceful and I can move forward. This is burdening 169 00:08:28,396 --> 00:08:31,076 Speaker 3: me more than it's benefiting me, and it's not worth 170 00:08:31,156 --> 00:08:33,676 Speaker 3: keeping for the next who knows how many years. In 171 00:08:33,716 --> 00:08:36,116 Speaker 3: case I can sell it on eBay and make twenty dollars, 172 00:08:36,236 --> 00:08:39,356 Speaker 3: you know, and then the fourth s is step forward. 173 00:08:39,516 --> 00:08:42,556 Speaker 3: So sometimes not always that looks like Okay, I'm feeling 174 00:08:42,836 --> 00:08:45,035 Speaker 3: a little more confident in letting this go, and it's 175 00:08:45,076 --> 00:08:48,076 Speaker 3: adding it to your donation bin, taking it to goodwill. 176 00:08:48,356 --> 00:08:51,956 Speaker 3: Maybe for you, it's especially for something so like a 177 00:08:51,996 --> 00:08:54,076 Speaker 3: quote unquote, you spent money on it, and it's meaningful 178 00:08:54,076 --> 00:08:58,356 Speaker 3: to you. Look up some charities or organizations in your community. 179 00:08:58,636 --> 00:09:00,876 Speaker 3: I mean, there's so many shelters and people like I 180 00:09:00,916 --> 00:09:02,916 Speaker 3: think for a lot of us to fear and letting go. Also, 181 00:09:03,036 --> 00:09:05,756 Speaker 3: we all want our stuff to go to a good home. Really, 182 00:09:05,796 --> 00:09:07,916 Speaker 3: that's how we all are. It's how we're wired. So 183 00:09:07,956 --> 00:09:10,956 Speaker 3: if it's more meaningful to you to find a shelter 184 00:09:11,036 --> 00:09:12,916 Speaker 3: of women in need, or parents in need or kids 185 00:09:12,956 --> 00:09:15,636 Speaker 3: in need to send this stuff to. Often again it's 186 00:09:15,676 --> 00:09:17,516 Speaker 3: just like Arlene and I often say, it's like tipping 187 00:09:17,596 --> 00:09:19,356 Speaker 3: the scales, you know, and it's it's not like, we 188 00:09:19,436 --> 00:09:21,476 Speaker 3: have to be one hundred percent ready, and it's not 189 00:09:21,516 --> 00:09:23,636 Speaker 3: like going through the four s's is going to be like, 190 00:09:23,676 --> 00:09:26,556 Speaker 3: oh I feel a piece. I feel like we whipped 191 00:09:26,556 --> 00:09:28,916 Speaker 3: the band it off. But it's just enough to go, Okay, 192 00:09:29,036 --> 00:09:31,276 Speaker 3: I can do this. I trust myself And the next 193 00:09:31,316 --> 00:09:34,556 Speaker 3: step forward is to find that group, find that person, 194 00:09:34,716 --> 00:09:38,796 Speaker 3: post it on buy nothing group on Facebook, and nine 195 00:09:38,796 --> 00:09:41,556 Speaker 3: times out a ton it is to let it go. 196 00:09:41,756 --> 00:09:44,876 Speaker 3: But going through that is such a see how fast 197 00:09:44,916 --> 00:09:47,556 Speaker 3: that was. It's a fast way to just give your 198 00:09:47,556 --> 00:09:50,436 Speaker 3: brain perspective and not cling to what it's used to. 199 00:09:51,196 --> 00:09:53,436 Speaker 2: We're going to go to the sentimental in just a second. 200 00:09:53,476 --> 00:09:55,516 Speaker 2: But before we go there, so I'm thinking. 201 00:09:55,476 --> 00:09:58,516 Speaker 1: So I have three kids, boy, girl, girl. So when 202 00:09:58,596 --> 00:10:01,276 Speaker 1: Ethan was growing up, you know, so many toys. So 203 00:10:01,316 --> 00:10:03,516 Speaker 1: it's like, okay, we can give away some of these toys. 204 00:10:03,516 --> 00:10:06,676 Speaker 1: So we sold his Thomas the train, you know, little table, 205 00:10:06,756 --> 00:10:09,796 Speaker 1: and we sold the little hot wheel's garage. Come to 206 00:10:09,836 --> 00:10:12,596 Speaker 1: find out, you know, five years later, baby sister Lucy 207 00:10:12,636 --> 00:10:15,196 Speaker 1: comes along and she loves hot wheels. Now, of course 208 00:10:15,196 --> 00:10:18,916 Speaker 1: she uses them completely different, she names them, she has stories. 209 00:10:18,556 --> 00:10:21,636 Speaker 2: Around the little community. But I thought, oh my word, 210 00:10:21,716 --> 00:10:24,196 Speaker 2: if I had that garage, she would. 211 00:10:24,036 --> 00:10:28,356 Speaker 1: Have completely flipped out and loved it so much. Talk 212 00:10:28,436 --> 00:10:33,396 Speaker 1: to us about toys, how how have you approached decluttering 213 00:10:33,436 --> 00:10:34,556 Speaker 1: toys with your boys? 214 00:10:34,716 --> 00:10:36,756 Speaker 2: And what advice can you give us? 215 00:10:37,276 --> 00:10:39,596 Speaker 3: I think it's tricky and nuanced, because again, we have 216 00:10:39,676 --> 00:10:43,316 Speaker 3: these personal experiences where it's like, oh, had I kept that, 217 00:10:43,716 --> 00:10:46,116 Speaker 3: my youngest would really appreciate that. And I think we 218 00:10:46,196 --> 00:10:48,756 Speaker 3: have it's kind of tricky territory when we let the 219 00:10:48,836 --> 00:10:51,516 Speaker 3: exception be the rule, right, and again, that's just that 220 00:10:51,636 --> 00:10:52,796 Speaker 3: tends to be how we're wired. 221 00:10:52,916 --> 00:10:54,876 Speaker 1: True, because there's a lot I gave away then no 222 00:10:54,876 --> 00:10:55,916 Speaker 1: one would have ever touched. 223 00:10:55,916 --> 00:10:56,876 Speaker 2: That's totally true. 224 00:10:57,116 --> 00:10:59,916 Speaker 3: Yes, again, and if you even just anchor yourself into 225 00:10:59,996 --> 00:11:02,796 Speaker 3: this is where something like the minimalist coin this years ago, 226 00:11:03,076 --> 00:11:06,076 Speaker 3: I love it again. It just brings more objectivity into 227 00:11:06,116 --> 00:11:08,036 Speaker 3: play because what you're describing as well, what if I have, 228 00:11:08,436 --> 00:11:09,956 Speaker 3: like what if I have another kid? What if they're 229 00:11:09,956 --> 00:11:11,996 Speaker 3: interested in this? And it's like, are we really going 230 00:11:12,036 --> 00:11:16,036 Speaker 3: to cling to these items? And yes, if it's one 231 00:11:16,116 --> 00:11:17,756 Speaker 3: or two things and it's out of your way and 232 00:11:17,756 --> 00:11:19,836 Speaker 3: it's not causing you stress, by all means, give yourself 233 00:11:19,836 --> 00:11:22,436 Speaker 3: a physical boundary. I'm willing to hang on to one 234 00:11:22,476 --> 00:11:26,036 Speaker 3: of these for the next unforeseen future. Five years, fine, 235 00:11:26,396 --> 00:11:29,316 Speaker 3: maybe two years in you're like, forget it, I'm not interested. 236 00:11:29,796 --> 00:11:32,356 Speaker 3: But going back to the twenty twenty rule again, bringing 237 00:11:32,396 --> 00:11:36,116 Speaker 3: more objectivity, balancing the scales, so that goes if I 238 00:11:36,156 --> 00:11:38,596 Speaker 3: can replace this in less than twenty dollars, in less 239 00:11:38,596 --> 00:11:41,156 Speaker 3: than twenty minutes, I'm going to let this go. And 240 00:11:41,276 --> 00:11:44,556 Speaker 3: pairing that with just super simple questions I walk through 241 00:11:44,636 --> 00:11:48,476 Speaker 3: with you. Maybe I'm sure that I'm sure those toys 242 00:11:48,516 --> 00:11:50,516 Speaker 3: probably cost more than twenty dollars. But again, the point 243 00:11:50,516 --> 00:11:53,796 Speaker 3: necessarily isn't the math. It's to you make it your own. 244 00:11:53,796 --> 00:11:56,276 Speaker 3: Maybe it's fifty dollars and ten minutes, maybe you drop 245 00:11:56,316 --> 00:11:59,236 Speaker 3: the time, maybe it's forty. But I think again, it's 246 00:11:59,316 --> 00:12:04,596 Speaker 3: just not letting that fear or unknown become the rule. 247 00:12:05,316 --> 00:12:09,476 Speaker 1: And yes, you said the word boundary, and I love 248 00:12:09,596 --> 00:12:11,956 Speaker 1: this concept that you had in the book. So I 249 00:12:12,036 --> 00:12:14,636 Speaker 1: have a lot of mugs, and I love my mugs 250 00:12:14,676 --> 00:12:17,116 Speaker 1: because I collect the mugs from the places i've been 251 00:12:17,356 --> 00:12:19,155 Speaker 1: right yes, thank you. 252 00:12:19,236 --> 00:12:20,676 Speaker 2: I wish I had a mug to hold right now 253 00:12:20,716 --> 00:12:22,676 Speaker 2: as well. So I love my mug. 254 00:12:22,756 --> 00:12:25,196 Speaker 1: They are the places I've been I like them, I'm 255 00:12:25,236 --> 00:12:28,556 Speaker 1: happy with them. Yeay, But obviously, like I have too 256 00:12:28,636 --> 00:12:33,156 Speaker 1: many mugs so to speak, you talk about not just. 257 00:12:33,196 --> 00:12:36,076 Speaker 2: Like looking at every single mug and being like, oh 258 00:12:36,156 --> 00:12:38,036 Speaker 2: do I love this smug? Do I love this? But 259 00:12:38,116 --> 00:12:38,796 Speaker 2: instead you do what? 260 00:12:40,436 --> 00:12:43,316 Speaker 3: So number one, Oh, I'll give you a question and 261 00:12:43,316 --> 00:12:45,476 Speaker 3: then I'll give you a piece you're y'ere leaning at. 262 00:12:45,516 --> 00:12:48,076 Speaker 3: So my go to question when I'm decluttering anything, I 263 00:12:48,116 --> 00:12:50,476 Speaker 3: always start with, like my golden rule. Have I had 264 00:12:50,516 --> 00:12:52,716 Speaker 3: the opportunity to use this, Well, let's use this mug. 265 00:12:52,756 --> 00:12:55,116 Speaker 3: Obviously I'm using it now. But as you're digging through 266 00:12:55,116 --> 00:12:58,116 Speaker 3: your mug collection, I think it's helpful to just instead 267 00:12:58,236 --> 00:13:00,916 Speaker 3: number one, thirty thousand foot of you here. I think 268 00:13:00,956 --> 00:13:03,316 Speaker 3: so many of us are collectors of things. We love things. 269 00:13:03,316 --> 00:13:05,476 Speaker 3: That's one hundred percent okay. But if you're wanting to 270 00:13:05,556 --> 00:13:08,316 Speaker 3: curate right, think about when you walk into a museum, 271 00:13:08,436 --> 00:13:12,476 Speaker 3: you're looking at a curated you know, art. This is 272 00:13:12,516 --> 00:13:14,996 Speaker 3: someone that she went she or he went through thousands 273 00:13:14,996 --> 00:13:20,716 Speaker 3: of paintings to put specific stuff up there, portraits, statues, whatever, 274 00:13:20,916 --> 00:13:24,676 Speaker 3: in order to evoke feelings, emotions, you know, tell us stories. 275 00:13:24,876 --> 00:13:26,676 Speaker 3: And we can do this through I mean in our 276 00:13:26,676 --> 00:13:28,356 Speaker 3: own home. We don't live in a museum, but we 277 00:13:28,396 --> 00:13:31,876 Speaker 3: have our own stuff. So going from a collector to 278 00:13:31,916 --> 00:13:34,196 Speaker 3: a curator, I think is a good perspective. Number two, 279 00:13:34,516 --> 00:13:36,876 Speaker 3: the go to question, have I had the opportunity to 280 00:13:36,956 --> 00:13:38,916 Speaker 3: use this in the last six months? If the answer 281 00:13:38,956 --> 00:13:41,276 Speaker 3: is yes, I've had the opportunity to select this mug, 282 00:13:41,476 --> 00:13:44,636 Speaker 3: but I bypassed it and reach from my favorite one instead. Again, 283 00:13:44,676 --> 00:13:47,636 Speaker 3: we're tipping the scales. Okay, if we're still not sure, okay, 284 00:13:47,676 --> 00:13:49,516 Speaker 3: could I replace this mug front or twenty dollars? Right, 285 00:13:49,556 --> 00:13:51,716 Speaker 3: So we're kind of just it's almost like this little 286 00:13:51,756 --> 00:13:54,956 Speaker 3: decision tree, and what you're speaking to is so important 287 00:13:54,956 --> 00:13:58,036 Speaker 3: to a big reason clutter overfloweth I mean, there's a 288 00:13:58,036 --> 00:13:59,876 Speaker 3: lot of them, but a big one is because we're 289 00:14:00,156 --> 00:14:04,236 Speaker 3: we don't scent intentional boundaries with the physical space we 290 00:14:04,236 --> 00:14:06,836 Speaker 3: are willing to devote to these different categories. So think 291 00:14:06,876 --> 00:14:09,156 Speaker 3: about your home as a whole is a physical boundary. 292 00:14:09,196 --> 00:14:11,796 Speaker 3: Sometimes it might feel like a storage unit, but we 293 00:14:11,836 --> 00:14:14,636 Speaker 3: are curating it into a home that loves and supports 294 00:14:14,636 --> 00:14:18,836 Speaker 3: you back right, your rooms are physical boundaries. Your cabinet 295 00:14:20,156 --> 00:14:22,996 Speaker 3: for your mugs, all these things are physical boundaries. That 296 00:14:23,036 --> 00:14:25,756 Speaker 3: we can use to help let us know, here's the 297 00:14:25,796 --> 00:14:28,916 Speaker 3: built and goal we're working towards. So if you have 298 00:14:29,236 --> 00:14:32,196 Speaker 3: thirty mugs and you feel like there's too many, which, 299 00:14:32,196 --> 00:14:35,596 Speaker 3: by the way, hopefully that pressure isn't coming from external 300 00:14:35,676 --> 00:14:38,036 Speaker 3: or what other people say, Like I still like clothes, 301 00:14:38,156 --> 00:14:40,156 Speaker 3: doesn't mean I have to be a have two shirts 302 00:14:40,196 --> 00:14:42,156 Speaker 3: and two pairs of shoes. So I like to offer 303 00:14:42,196 --> 00:14:45,236 Speaker 3: that too, like when is enough enough? One is too much? 304 00:14:45,316 --> 00:14:47,836 Speaker 3: Too much? So a physical boundary can answer that question. 305 00:14:48,956 --> 00:14:50,876 Speaker 3: Some people use a number ten mugs, is what I'm 306 00:14:50,916 --> 00:14:52,996 Speaker 3: going for, k I want to go curate from thirty 307 00:14:53,556 --> 00:14:56,716 Speaker 3: to ten. And I personally like a physical boundary. It 308 00:14:56,716 --> 00:14:59,076 Speaker 3: feels a little bit less restrictive to me and like 309 00:14:59,156 --> 00:15:02,076 Speaker 3: more realistic. And again you have that visual cueue. So 310 00:15:02,196 --> 00:15:05,436 Speaker 3: let's say it's to one shelf in your cabinet that 311 00:15:05,516 --> 00:15:07,996 Speaker 3: you want to work towards. So again it's it kind 312 00:15:08,036 --> 00:15:10,276 Speaker 3: of takes a lot less of like does this spark joy? 313 00:15:10,396 --> 00:15:13,156 Speaker 3: I don't know. Like again, certain questions work for certain people, 314 00:15:13,236 --> 00:15:15,236 Speaker 3: not knocking it, but if you're just like, Okay, here's 315 00:15:15,276 --> 00:15:17,316 Speaker 3: what I'm working towards, your brain's really good, Like here's 316 00:15:17,316 --> 00:15:20,636 Speaker 3: my favorite So I always tell my clientisrate literally, just 317 00:15:20,756 --> 00:15:23,236 Speaker 3: rate the mugs you pull out. You'll know, you'll know 318 00:15:23,276 --> 00:15:25,956 Speaker 3: the superficial ones to chip ones, whatever. But like you 319 00:15:25,996 --> 00:15:27,796 Speaker 3: want to keep your eights, nines, and tens on a 320 00:15:27,796 --> 00:15:29,916 Speaker 3: scale of one to ten, the ones where I'm like, 321 00:15:29,996 --> 00:15:31,836 Speaker 3: oh my god, like this is truly a piece of art. 322 00:15:31,876 --> 00:15:33,676 Speaker 3: My friend made this, she's a potter. I'm like, this 323 00:15:33,796 --> 00:15:36,116 Speaker 3: is like drinking out of art. I am most only ten, 324 00:15:36,436 --> 00:15:38,956 Speaker 3: you know, But I also kept my plain white ones 325 00:15:38,956 --> 00:15:41,156 Speaker 3: and green ones that are you know, seven eights and 326 00:15:41,276 --> 00:15:43,996 Speaker 3: night's good. And so again, when you have that built 327 00:15:43,996 --> 00:15:46,756 Speaker 3: in goal to work towards, it's a beautiful thing. And 328 00:15:46,836 --> 00:15:49,436 Speaker 3: on the back side, people speak a lot to maintenance, right, 329 00:15:49,476 --> 00:15:52,476 Speaker 3: that's its own thing with decluttering, we don't just declutter once, 330 00:15:52,516 --> 00:15:55,396 Speaker 3: and like our home is good forever. So honoring those 331 00:15:55,396 --> 00:15:58,716 Speaker 3: physical boundaries that you decide on for these different categories 332 00:15:58,716 --> 00:16:01,476 Speaker 3: of things can also again, Hey, I'm noticing as I'm 333 00:16:01,476 --> 00:16:04,396 Speaker 3: putting the coffee mugs away after unletting the dishwasher, ERT's 334 00:16:04,396 --> 00:16:06,636 Speaker 3: get a little tighten here. Got some from the holidays 335 00:16:06,636 --> 00:16:08,836 Speaker 3: and Christmas and birthday. Something's got to go. 336 00:16:09,396 --> 00:16:12,676 Speaker 1: Yeah, And this works for a closet. This works for shoes, 337 00:16:12,756 --> 00:16:15,516 Speaker 1: this works for kids, toys in a chest, this works 338 00:16:15,516 --> 00:16:16,636 Speaker 1: for books on a shelf. 339 00:16:16,676 --> 00:16:19,236 Speaker 2: Like this, this is amazingly. 340 00:16:18,996 --> 00:16:21,716 Speaker 1: Brilliant what you're telling And all of us are like, okay, 341 00:16:21,756 --> 00:16:22,516 Speaker 1: we need to go to our. 342 00:16:22,476 --> 00:16:26,836 Speaker 2: Cupboard right now, what shelf or two shelves. 343 00:16:27,276 --> 00:16:31,356 Speaker 1: Okay, we are going to talk about what started this 344 00:16:31,436 --> 00:16:36,196 Speaker 1: all for you. And it is a terrible, terrible you know, 345 00:16:36,276 --> 00:16:40,076 Speaker 1: sometimes people say like, oh, I had this epiphany or 346 00:16:40,316 --> 00:16:42,516 Speaker 1: I just tripped and it was just so much stuff 347 00:16:42,556 --> 00:16:44,636 Speaker 1: and I just snapped, But you really had just a 348 00:16:44,756 --> 00:16:45,596 Speaker 1: terrible thing up. 349 00:16:45,596 --> 00:16:48,476 Speaker 2: But do you share how this journey started for you? 350 00:16:49,396 --> 00:16:53,076 Speaker 3: Yeah, well, my rock bottom, of my rock bottom that 351 00:16:53,316 --> 00:16:57,276 Speaker 3: transpired me into figuring out this philosophy and subsequent methods 352 00:16:57,276 --> 00:17:01,316 Speaker 3: we're talking about came after a solid two years of 353 00:17:01,796 --> 00:17:03,316 Speaker 3: you know, a new mom so my kid. I was 354 00:17:03,356 --> 00:17:05,955 Speaker 3: like Onanish at the time, a little older, and I 355 00:17:06,036 --> 00:17:09,636 Speaker 3: read Spark Joy, I did the Rainbow Method, I followed 356 00:17:09,636 --> 00:17:12,436 Speaker 3: all the organizing experts. I got the Real Simple magazine, 357 00:17:12,475 --> 00:17:15,436 Speaker 3: and no matter what I tried, it wasn't sustainable. The 358 00:17:15,436 --> 00:17:18,515 Speaker 3: clutter came back, and me, like most people, unknowingly was 359 00:17:18,556 --> 00:17:21,956 Speaker 3: only forocused on superficial clutter. Plus, I was focusing on 360 00:17:22,036 --> 00:17:24,436 Speaker 3: just the stuff and organizing. It was my default. I 361 00:17:24,436 --> 00:17:27,356 Speaker 3: feel like in culture again, we're just like I didn't 362 00:17:27,396 --> 00:17:29,635 Speaker 3: really realize I wasn't letting go of anything. I thought, well, 363 00:17:29,636 --> 00:17:31,156 Speaker 3: I just have if I had the right bins and 364 00:17:31,196 --> 00:17:35,436 Speaker 3: the right systems, I'll be fine. And then you know, 365 00:17:35,596 --> 00:17:37,676 Speaker 3: I hated my home. I felt anxious at my house. 366 00:17:37,715 --> 00:17:39,315 Speaker 3: I was depressed. I was what I call a no 367 00:17:39,475 --> 00:17:42,076 Speaker 3: mom because every time my kids asked me to play 368 00:17:42,076 --> 00:17:44,795 Speaker 3: with them, my oldest at the time, I said no 369 00:17:44,955 --> 00:17:47,156 Speaker 3: because I was so burdened and drained. I had so 370 00:17:47,275 --> 00:17:49,515 Speaker 3: much to do in the house pick up, clean up, organized, 371 00:17:49,515 --> 00:17:53,916 Speaker 3: de clutter. It never ended, and it was just impacting 372 00:17:53,916 --> 00:17:56,475 Speaker 3: my relationships with my husband, my kids. 373 00:17:56,515 --> 00:17:57,116 Speaker 2: I was just. 374 00:17:57,156 --> 00:17:59,396 Speaker 3: Miserable inside my house. I often say I felt like 375 00:17:59,436 --> 00:18:01,795 Speaker 3: a completely different mom outside of my house, like happy, 376 00:18:01,876 --> 00:18:04,315 Speaker 3: go lucky, like everything's fun, Like yes, what do you 377 00:18:04,356 --> 00:18:06,515 Speaker 3: want to do? Like yesterday? And then the second I 378 00:18:06,556 --> 00:18:09,876 Speaker 3: walked through my front door, it was like I was triggered, anxious, 379 00:18:09,916 --> 00:18:12,315 Speaker 3: and again going back to how God created us, we 380 00:18:12,475 --> 00:18:15,075 Speaker 3: are wired to crave order and peace. Clutter is the 381 00:18:15,076 --> 00:18:18,116 Speaker 3: opposite of that. So there are so many studies, it's 382 00:18:18,156 --> 00:18:20,916 Speaker 3: not in your head. Correlate the amount of stuff in 383 00:18:20,955 --> 00:18:23,235 Speaker 3: your home to your stress levels, and it can lead to, 384 00:18:23,876 --> 00:18:26,795 Speaker 3: you know, feeling bad, feeling anxious, fatigued, all these things. 385 00:18:27,196 --> 00:18:30,595 Speaker 3: And then one day in twenty seventeen, we were involved 386 00:18:30,596 --> 00:18:34,275 Speaker 3: in a really bad car accident, and for about six 387 00:18:34,316 --> 00:18:37,156 Speaker 3: seven eight hours at the hospital, I didn't know if 388 00:18:37,196 --> 00:18:40,115 Speaker 3: my husband was going to survive, and I remember just 389 00:18:40,156 --> 00:18:43,156 Speaker 3: sitting there praying, you know, and I was like, man, 390 00:18:43,356 --> 00:18:46,596 Speaker 3: I can't. I'm this life is hard enough, and now 391 00:18:46,636 --> 00:18:48,755 Speaker 3: I might walk out of this hospital a widow, like 392 00:18:48,796 --> 00:18:51,196 Speaker 3: this is how am I going to do this? How 393 00:18:51,235 --> 00:18:54,395 Speaker 3: can I keep up? I'm already drowning. And I remember 394 00:18:54,436 --> 00:18:57,075 Speaker 3: coming home some two good girlfriends of mine brought me 395 00:18:57,116 --> 00:19:00,075 Speaker 3: home and picked the kids up. We all came home together, 396 00:19:00,116 --> 00:19:02,235 Speaker 3: and it was like walking through the front door. I 397 00:19:02,275 --> 00:19:05,315 Speaker 3: saw really in that moment my house what it was 398 00:19:05,356 --> 00:19:09,116 Speaker 3: stealing from me, and that I didn't have any more excuses. 399 00:19:09,636 --> 00:19:13,075 Speaker 3: It was not a good time to start decluttering in 400 00:19:13,156 --> 00:19:15,475 Speaker 3: the way that the experts were presenting it then and 401 00:19:15,515 --> 00:19:17,916 Speaker 3: still do kind of the all or nothing the purges, 402 00:19:18,396 --> 00:19:21,595 Speaker 3: but it was like taking away from I needed to 403 00:19:21,636 --> 00:19:25,795 Speaker 3: show up and support my kids through this. Later that 404 00:19:25,916 --> 00:19:28,515 Speaker 3: night before the hospital, before he left, the doctor's like 405 00:19:28,515 --> 00:19:30,276 Speaker 3: he's going to make a full recovery. But it took 406 00:19:30,396 --> 00:19:34,276 Speaker 3: so many months, multiple surgeries, broken neck, broken shoulder, punctured lung, 407 00:19:35,636 --> 00:19:38,116 Speaker 3: and it was like, Okay, how am I going to 408 00:19:38,196 --> 00:19:41,556 Speaker 3: do this? I can't. I'm not willing to just make 409 00:19:41,636 --> 00:19:44,355 Speaker 3: excuses and just say this doesn't work for me and 410 00:19:44,396 --> 00:19:47,755 Speaker 3: resign my house to in my mental health to being 411 00:19:47,796 --> 00:19:49,916 Speaker 3: overwhelmed until the kids are grown up and old and 412 00:19:49,955 --> 00:19:55,515 Speaker 3: I have time. And that was really what pulled me 413 00:19:55,676 --> 00:19:57,995 Speaker 3: and a lot of prayer into like how can I 414 00:19:58,035 --> 00:20:00,196 Speaker 3: make this work? How can I get to the root 415 00:20:00,275 --> 00:20:03,275 Speaker 3: of this because all these things are masking the symptoms, 416 00:20:03,676 --> 00:20:06,555 Speaker 3: And how can I make this sustainable for a busy family? 417 00:20:06,596 --> 00:20:08,476 Speaker 3: I mean I was working sixty hours a week or more. 418 00:20:08,515 --> 00:20:11,156 Speaker 3: We had businesses, our own businesses at the time, and 419 00:20:11,316 --> 00:20:13,235 Speaker 3: raise kids and now my husband's had a commission for 420 00:20:13,275 --> 00:20:17,236 Speaker 3: six months plus. So even with that, with the methods 421 00:20:17,275 --> 00:20:20,995 Speaker 3: we you know, I work on the philosophy of holistic teacluttering, 422 00:20:21,076 --> 00:20:23,475 Speaker 3: I was able to make progress. It was slow. People 423 00:20:23,515 --> 00:20:25,715 Speaker 3: don't like to hear that. Yes, it was slow. Sometimes 424 00:20:25,755 --> 00:20:28,156 Speaker 3: it was five things a day. Sometimes it was ten minutes. 425 00:20:28,316 --> 00:20:31,035 Speaker 3: If I got lucky I would and had the capacity, 426 00:20:31,035 --> 00:20:33,476 Speaker 3: it was twenty five minutes a week. But all these 427 00:20:33,475 --> 00:20:37,156 Speaker 3: different things, the four S framework and all these different 428 00:20:37,196 --> 00:20:39,315 Speaker 3: aspects I talk a lot more about in the book, 429 00:20:39,475 --> 00:20:42,356 Speaker 3: Yeah helped me. Just again. It's like pulling the weed 430 00:20:42,436 --> 00:20:44,556 Speaker 3: out by the root. We all know what happens. When 431 00:20:44,556 --> 00:20:46,715 Speaker 3: you chop the weed off at ground level. The weeds 432 00:20:46,715 --> 00:20:48,795 Speaker 3: are still they grow back in two days. But when 433 00:20:48,836 --> 00:20:51,355 Speaker 3: you pull the weed out by the root and just 434 00:20:51,396 --> 00:20:53,475 Speaker 3: invest a little more time upfront to work on what's 435 00:20:53,475 --> 00:20:56,396 Speaker 3: going in between your ears, I mean, the results just 436 00:20:56,475 --> 00:21:00,676 Speaker 3: continue the return on your investment. It continues to accumulate 437 00:21:00,755 --> 00:21:03,196 Speaker 3: and compound over time. And for me that meant me 438 00:21:03,316 --> 00:21:05,676 Speaker 3: being a yes mom, saying yes to my kids. Yes 439 00:21:05,715 --> 00:21:07,796 Speaker 3: I can read extra bedtime stories. Yes I can play 440 00:21:07,836 --> 00:21:11,075 Speaker 3: trains instead of feeling pulled to work on the house. 441 00:21:11,356 --> 00:21:14,476 Speaker 3: I mean, it was transformative and my mental health, my happiness, 442 00:21:14,596 --> 00:21:17,116 Speaker 3: my personality. I was like, I feel like I'm. 443 00:21:16,955 --> 00:21:19,475 Speaker 2: Happy, like me again, Like you felt like yourself. 444 00:21:19,556 --> 00:21:22,035 Speaker 3: I felt like myself again. And here's what I just 445 00:21:22,076 --> 00:21:24,876 Speaker 3: want to hit really fast. That feeling didn't come when 446 00:21:24,876 --> 00:21:28,396 Speaker 3: my house was done imperfect. It started to come as 447 00:21:28,436 --> 00:21:32,275 Speaker 3: I was decluttering old programming, old beliefs, anchoring into what 448 00:21:32,436 --> 00:21:35,075 Speaker 3: I know and what I was trying to do was 449 00:21:35,475 --> 00:21:37,995 Speaker 3: my pastor once said, we all have a God shaped 450 00:21:39,035 --> 00:21:41,036 Speaker 3: hole in our heart, and we try to fill it 451 00:21:41,116 --> 00:21:45,595 Speaker 3: with stuffs, shoes, bags, whatever we're reaching. We're reaching, we're 452 00:21:45,596 --> 00:21:47,836 Speaker 3: trying to fill this hole. It will never be satisfied, 453 00:21:47,876 --> 00:21:49,955 Speaker 3: because that's where God needs to be, you know. And 454 00:21:50,035 --> 00:21:51,955 Speaker 3: I was like yes, like yes, this is why I 455 00:21:51,995 --> 00:21:54,276 Speaker 3: do what I do. And it's so cool because when 456 00:21:54,275 --> 00:21:57,755 Speaker 3: we make that physical space in our homes, it creates 457 00:21:57,755 --> 00:22:01,075 Speaker 3: a space, an opportunity in our minds to heal, to 458 00:22:01,275 --> 00:22:05,156 Speaker 3: move past grieving, to think about what we want in life, 459 00:22:05,196 --> 00:22:07,755 Speaker 3: to have more room for our faith. I started going 460 00:22:07,796 --> 00:22:09,876 Speaker 3: back to church and praying more and doing all the 461 00:22:09,916 --> 00:22:12,355 Speaker 3: things I wanted to do but couldn't do because I 462 00:22:12,396 --> 00:22:15,196 Speaker 3: was so distracted by the noise and those I just 463 00:22:15,235 --> 00:22:17,555 Speaker 3: want to encourage your listeners today. Your home doesn't have 464 00:22:17,636 --> 00:22:21,315 Speaker 3: to look like a pottery barnad to nurture and support 465 00:22:21,356 --> 00:22:24,516 Speaker 3: and bless you and your family. It doesn't. You can 466 00:22:24,556 --> 00:22:28,316 Speaker 3: declutter for five minutes and you will feel better. And 467 00:22:28,396 --> 00:22:31,235 Speaker 3: that action is what's going to create that momentum. Don't 468 00:22:31,235 --> 00:22:34,316 Speaker 3: wait for momentum and motivation. It's probably not going to come. 469 00:22:34,316 --> 00:22:37,235 Speaker 3: And the once a year it does come, the two 470 00:22:37,275 --> 00:22:40,156 Speaker 3: hour purt isn't enough. So just get used to taking small, 471 00:22:40,196 --> 00:22:42,596 Speaker 3: gentle steps forward in a way that feels doable for you. 472 00:22:43,636 --> 00:22:46,475 Speaker 1: This is gold what you were saying. Help us understand 473 00:22:46,475 --> 00:22:49,715 Speaker 1: the difference between clutter and just every day mess, Like, yeah, 474 00:22:49,755 --> 00:22:51,596 Speaker 1: we just ate a sandwich and now we have to 475 00:22:51,636 --> 00:22:52,196 Speaker 1: clean that up. 476 00:22:54,475 --> 00:23:00,275 Speaker 3: So culture really has set this very high standard for 477 00:23:00,316 --> 00:23:02,075 Speaker 3: a lot of how our homes should look. And I 478 00:23:02,116 --> 00:23:05,515 Speaker 3: realize very quickly that there's a difference between clutter and 479 00:23:05,596 --> 00:23:07,755 Speaker 3: expected mess now that I call that's what I call 480 00:23:07,796 --> 00:23:10,236 Speaker 3: it now. So clutter is I always say it's optional. 481 00:23:10,316 --> 00:23:12,595 Speaker 3: Clutter is the excess, the broken. I mean, it's the 482 00:23:12,636 --> 00:23:14,916 Speaker 3: four types we talked through. At the end of the day, 483 00:23:14,955 --> 00:23:17,235 Speaker 3: it's stressing us out, it's burdening us, and it's weighing 484 00:23:17,235 --> 00:23:19,995 Speaker 3: on our hearts and our souls. Expected mess, on the 485 00:23:20,035 --> 00:23:23,116 Speaker 3: other hand, is cyclical. It's going to happen no matter 486 00:23:23,876 --> 00:23:25,875 Speaker 3: if you have one child or ten, or if you're 487 00:23:25,876 --> 00:23:28,436 Speaker 3: a minimalist or not. So this is the normal side 488 00:23:28,475 --> 00:23:32,316 Speaker 3: effect of being a living human, human beings things. Imagine that, 489 00:23:32,755 --> 00:23:35,075 Speaker 3: Imagine that. And I think so many of us are 490 00:23:35,076 --> 00:23:37,755 Speaker 3: taught to fear any mess and see kind of any 491 00:23:37,796 --> 00:23:41,315 Speaker 3: mess and clutter as evil. But I think again, language matters. Clutter, 492 00:23:42,755 --> 00:23:45,116 Speaker 3: we do clutter, we don't put it back. We learn 493 00:23:45,196 --> 00:23:48,395 Speaker 3: to let it go. Through these frameworks. Expected mess is 494 00:23:48,515 --> 00:23:52,276 Speaker 3: just again. Here's the nuance too, that matters. I think 495 00:23:52,275 --> 00:23:55,356 Speaker 3: it's also it helped me understand to not feel resentful 496 00:23:55,396 --> 00:23:58,795 Speaker 3: when the countertops filled back up with normal expected mess 497 00:23:58,916 --> 00:24:01,395 Speaker 3: after dinner. I used to resent my family. Why am 498 00:24:01,436 --> 00:24:04,315 Speaker 3: I the only one that cares? I worked for twenty minutes. 499 00:24:04,396 --> 00:24:07,156 Speaker 3: Now it doesn't look like it did anything. What's the point, right? 500 00:24:07,235 --> 00:24:09,795 Speaker 3: It puts us into the shame spiral because of some 501 00:24:09,955 --> 00:24:12,995 Speaker 3: expectation we didn't even put there for ourselves. God doesn't 502 00:24:13,035 --> 00:24:16,196 Speaker 3: care if your house has clutter. God doesn't care that 503 00:24:16,275 --> 00:24:18,715 Speaker 3: your house is messy after you had a family meal. 504 00:24:19,556 --> 00:24:22,235 Speaker 3: And I think so much of the mess, interestingly enough, 505 00:24:22,676 --> 00:24:25,636 Speaker 3: comes as a part of doing something we say we 506 00:24:25,676 --> 00:24:27,995 Speaker 3: want more of. We want to play with our kids. 507 00:24:28,676 --> 00:24:30,996 Speaker 3: We make a mess, we do art, we play cards. 508 00:24:32,076 --> 00:24:34,796 Speaker 3: The furniture behind me is on the weekend flipped over 509 00:24:34,916 --> 00:24:38,156 Speaker 3: to do forts. If people walked in, they wouldn't be like, oh, 510 00:24:38,156 --> 00:24:41,555 Speaker 3: this is a declutter organizing expert house. I'd be like, no, 511 00:24:41,755 --> 00:24:44,555 Speaker 3: this is this is a whole point, people, this is 512 00:24:44,596 --> 00:24:50,276 Speaker 3: the whole point. There's so much mess that comes from beauty, presence, connection, imagination, 513 00:24:51,676 --> 00:24:54,116 Speaker 3: and I think, yes, mess still can be annoying, don't 514 00:24:54,116 --> 00:24:55,755 Speaker 3: get me wrong, but I think number one, if you 515 00:24:55,755 --> 00:24:58,956 Speaker 3: can identify chill like brain, we got a plan for this. 516 00:24:59,556 --> 00:25:02,436 Speaker 3: I know how to handle this, and we're reducing that 517 00:25:02,515 --> 00:25:05,075 Speaker 3: shame because when we are stuck in shame, hope and 518 00:25:05,196 --> 00:25:08,156 Speaker 3: action don't feel possible. And I spent so many years 519 00:25:08,196 --> 00:25:10,636 Speaker 3: kind of just ruminating there, I can't do this, it's 520 00:25:10,676 --> 00:25:12,755 Speaker 3: too hard. Must be nice for all the people out 521 00:25:12,755 --> 00:25:15,076 Speaker 3: there who have no job. I was like, I don't 522 00:25:15,116 --> 00:25:18,156 Speaker 3: have the time. I'm just not organized. But I had 523 00:25:18,156 --> 00:25:21,075 Speaker 3: to step out of that. So understanding the two and 524 00:25:21,235 --> 00:25:23,636 Speaker 3: just you set the baseline, You set the standard for 525 00:25:23,676 --> 00:25:25,515 Speaker 3: yourself what are you working towards. So for me it 526 00:25:25,515 --> 00:25:28,556 Speaker 3: became not a twenty four to seven always tidy home. 527 00:25:28,596 --> 00:25:31,436 Speaker 3: It became I want an easy to manage home, an 528 00:25:31,436 --> 00:25:34,875 Speaker 3: easy to tidy home, and more than that, I focus 529 00:25:34,916 --> 00:25:37,075 Speaker 3: on how I want to feel in my house. I 530 00:25:37,116 --> 00:25:41,196 Speaker 3: want to feel the capacity to breathe, to calm down, 531 00:25:41,796 --> 00:25:44,556 Speaker 3: to play with my kids, to connect with my husband, 532 00:25:44,876 --> 00:25:47,916 Speaker 3: to pray in the morning without being distracted by eight 533 00:25:47,916 --> 00:25:49,475 Speaker 3: billion piles of clutter. 534 00:25:50,156 --> 00:25:54,355 Speaker 1: Yeah, so you're talking about systems. You're talking about not 535 00:25:54,515 --> 00:25:57,596 Speaker 1: just moving your pile from one place to another. You're 536 00:25:57,596 --> 00:26:00,475 Speaker 1: talking about like, Okay, let's declutter and then just the 537 00:26:00,556 --> 00:26:05,436 Speaker 1: normal everyday mess. Let's talk about that sentimental stuff. Just 538 00:26:05,475 --> 00:26:07,396 Speaker 1: I want to touch on that because we've touched on 539 00:26:07,436 --> 00:26:10,075 Speaker 1: it before. So if you're looking at this attic of 540 00:26:10,116 --> 00:26:12,916 Speaker 1: all sentimental things, what might be some questions that you 541 00:26:12,955 --> 00:26:14,076 Speaker 1: ask yourself. 542 00:26:14,916 --> 00:26:19,596 Speaker 3: For sentimental I again, it's nuanced because I just want 543 00:26:19,596 --> 00:26:21,955 Speaker 3: to name this too. A lot of people who think 544 00:26:22,035 --> 00:26:26,156 Speaker 3: it's sentimental clutter. There's kind of a subset a sentimental clutter, 545 00:26:26,196 --> 00:26:27,676 Speaker 3: and that's guilt clutter. 546 00:26:27,916 --> 00:26:32,075 Speaker 1: Yes, Like my grandmother told you, you Bill gave this to me, 547 00:26:32,196 --> 00:26:34,115 Speaker 1: and if I let this go, my mother will be 548 00:26:34,235 --> 00:26:34,836 Speaker 1: very mad at me. 549 00:26:35,316 --> 00:26:38,276 Speaker 3: This kind of thing, Right, So we're letting other people's 550 00:26:38,356 --> 00:26:42,715 Speaker 3: potential projections, expectations, like we're a fear of a potential 551 00:26:42,755 --> 00:26:46,475 Speaker 3: awkward conversation happening in the future kind of come before 552 00:26:46,475 --> 00:26:49,076 Speaker 3: our values, And so in those moments, I think it's 553 00:26:49,076 --> 00:26:51,796 Speaker 3: a good question to ask yourself, like, is this truly sentimental? 554 00:26:51,995 --> 00:26:53,995 Speaker 3: And if it weren't for the guilt, would I still 555 00:26:54,035 --> 00:26:56,556 Speaker 3: want this? And then, of course you know your family best, 556 00:26:56,636 --> 00:26:59,475 Speaker 3: maybe you offer it to your mom. I mean, I 557 00:26:59,475 --> 00:27:01,555 Speaker 3: think the reality is whenever I talk to my clients 558 00:27:01,556 --> 00:27:04,715 Speaker 3: about this same exact scenario, I'm always like, well, do 559 00:27:04,715 --> 00:27:07,196 Speaker 3: you have something else from her that's more meaningful or 560 00:27:07,196 --> 00:27:11,316 Speaker 3: that like truly sparks that memory and that like it 561 00:27:11,396 --> 00:27:13,595 Speaker 3: brings tears to my eyes, like we all have that. 562 00:27:13,876 --> 00:27:16,636 Speaker 3: When you're up there in the garage going through these boxes, 563 00:27:17,076 --> 00:27:19,275 Speaker 3: maybe you didn't choose any of that stuff. Maybe you're like, 564 00:27:19,316 --> 00:27:21,355 Speaker 3: I don't even remember her using this or liking this, 565 00:27:21,955 --> 00:27:23,796 Speaker 3: like we all have, like the vase or the one 566 00:27:23,876 --> 00:27:26,916 Speaker 3: thing that we can display if you want to. Some 567 00:27:26,955 --> 00:27:28,596 Speaker 3: things can live in a box. You open it once 568 00:27:28,596 --> 00:27:30,715 Speaker 3: a year. It serves its purpose that way. But I 569 00:27:30,715 --> 00:27:33,356 Speaker 3: want to offer that too, because guilt clutter is really 570 00:27:33,356 --> 00:27:37,315 Speaker 3: good at sneakily masquerading a sentimental clutter. So if it 571 00:27:37,356 --> 00:27:40,075 Speaker 3: truly is sentimental, I like to start by again, you 572 00:27:40,116 --> 00:27:41,955 Speaker 3: just ask a simple question, why have I kept this? 573 00:27:42,156 --> 00:27:44,196 Speaker 3: What does it represent? If it's not guilt, what does 574 00:27:44,235 --> 00:27:47,035 Speaker 3: it represent? Yeah, it reminds me of something and it 575 00:27:47,076 --> 00:27:50,396 Speaker 3: can just help loosen its grip. Or you can say, well, 576 00:27:50,475 --> 00:27:52,876 Speaker 3: if I want to be reminded of my grandmother or 577 00:27:52,876 --> 00:27:56,596 Speaker 3: my uncle Joe, I can maybe repurpose this. So can 578 00:27:56,676 --> 00:27:58,995 Speaker 3: I display this? Does it belong on a mantlepiece? Should 579 00:27:58,995 --> 00:28:01,076 Speaker 3: I bring it out with my holiday decor every Christmas 580 00:28:01,076 --> 00:28:03,596 Speaker 3: to be reminded? Does it belong in a photo frame? 581 00:28:04,076 --> 00:28:05,876 Speaker 3: Maybe it doesn't belong in your living room and a 582 00:28:05,916 --> 00:28:08,355 Speaker 3: shared space. But for me, I keep some of my 583 00:28:08,396 --> 00:28:11,156 Speaker 3: sentimental stuff in my closet because that's my space. I 584 00:28:11,196 --> 00:28:12,835 Speaker 3: have a small walking so I just put like I 585 00:28:12,876 --> 00:28:15,995 Speaker 3: have a wedding bouquet of antique flowers that it's just 586 00:28:16,035 --> 00:28:19,275 Speaker 3: like I wanted to keep that, and it reminds me 587 00:28:19,316 --> 00:28:20,755 Speaker 3: of one of the best days of my life. So 588 00:28:21,196 --> 00:28:23,436 Speaker 3: it's not always that you have to integrate sentimental things 589 00:28:23,436 --> 00:28:25,396 Speaker 3: into your daily life, but I think it can be. 590 00:28:25,955 --> 00:28:28,356 Speaker 3: I think it helps the object to fulfill the purpose 591 00:28:28,715 --> 00:28:30,876 Speaker 3: of why you're keeping it to begin with. And then, 592 00:28:30,955 --> 00:28:33,676 Speaker 3: of course I think with sentimental you also have to 593 00:28:33,715 --> 00:28:37,156 Speaker 3: consider the time aspect. If you're not ready, you're not ready. 594 00:28:37,316 --> 00:28:41,476 Speaker 3: And time can do so much of the heavy lifting 595 00:28:41,516 --> 00:28:43,516 Speaker 3: for us when it comes to grief, when it comes 596 00:28:43,516 --> 00:28:47,596 Speaker 3: to sentimentality, So even just take just giving yourself permission 597 00:28:47,636 --> 00:28:50,236 Speaker 3: to take time and not go from like twenty boxes 598 00:28:50,276 --> 00:28:52,756 Speaker 3: of sentimental stuff to one. I mean, it's helpful to 599 00:28:52,756 --> 00:28:55,196 Speaker 3: set a boundary as your built in goal. Maybe if 600 00:28:55,236 --> 00:28:57,476 Speaker 3: you have twenty boxes, maybe the goal is to go 601 00:28:57,556 --> 00:29:00,516 Speaker 3: through one box a month, one every two weeks, and 602 00:29:00,556 --> 00:29:03,276 Speaker 3: then hopefully curate it to ten and then again. While 603 00:29:03,276 --> 00:29:06,956 Speaker 3: you're doing this, you're building your declutter muscle. Everything you're 604 00:29:06,996 --> 00:29:09,156 Speaker 3: able to let go of is a vote and more 605 00:29:09,196 --> 00:29:13,436 Speaker 3: confidence and more capacity, and your brain believes we can 606 00:29:13,476 --> 00:29:15,476 Speaker 3: do this, we can do this, we can open the box, 607 00:29:15,676 --> 00:29:19,356 Speaker 3: we can decide, we make confident decisions, and that hus 608 00:29:20,556 --> 00:29:22,316 Speaker 3: that's what builds the momentum. 609 00:29:22,756 --> 00:29:25,756 Speaker 1: This is amazing because you're being so practical with us, 610 00:29:25,796 --> 00:29:28,516 Speaker 1: but you're also giving us the heart level of what's happening. 611 00:29:28,676 --> 00:29:30,436 Speaker 2: So this is amazing, And I. 612 00:29:30,356 --> 00:29:33,756 Speaker 1: Hope people will totally get your book Making Home your 613 00:29:33,756 --> 00:29:36,556 Speaker 1: happy Place, because they'll get everything because this is just 614 00:29:36,676 --> 00:29:37,996 Speaker 1: some and there's so much more. 615 00:29:38,476 --> 00:29:42,276 Speaker 2: As we close My question is, how do you put. 616 00:29:42,036 --> 00:29:45,916 Speaker 1: This in your kids, just this philosophy of how they 617 00:29:45,996 --> 00:29:48,916 Speaker 1: would treat their things, of how they use it when 618 00:29:48,956 --> 00:29:49,756 Speaker 1: they say. 619 00:29:49,516 --> 00:29:51,796 Speaker 2: Okay, Mom, I'm done. I haven't used this for a while. 620 00:29:51,836 --> 00:29:53,236 Speaker 2: How has this played out with your boys? 621 00:29:53,876 --> 00:29:56,355 Speaker 3: Yeah, so it looks different, you know, just based on 622 00:29:56,676 --> 00:29:59,395 Speaker 3: the executive function of kids' brains. You know, it develops 623 00:29:59,436 --> 00:30:02,756 Speaker 3: untill they're twenty five. So think about deepcluttering, organizing, planning, 624 00:30:03,436 --> 00:30:05,836 Speaker 3: prioritizing all of that thing. I mean, it takes place 625 00:30:05,836 --> 00:30:07,315 Speaker 3: in that part of the brain. So when they're little, 626 00:30:07,356 --> 00:30:10,156 Speaker 3: it looked like before they were readers. I put labels 627 00:30:10,196 --> 00:30:13,516 Speaker 3: on their toy binds so they could easily see where 628 00:30:13,516 --> 00:30:15,796 Speaker 3: things go. And I think too, just from a thirty 629 00:30:15,796 --> 00:30:18,595 Speaker 3: thousand foot view, whether it's kids or partners, I hear 630 00:30:18,596 --> 00:30:19,996 Speaker 3: all the time like how do I get my kids 631 00:30:20,036 --> 00:30:21,796 Speaker 3: on board with decluttering? How to get my partner to 632 00:30:21,796 --> 00:30:24,476 Speaker 3: get rid of his or her stuff? So one thing 633 00:30:25,156 --> 00:30:29,836 Speaker 3: beyond conversations is because we're so influenced by our physical environments. 634 00:30:31,076 --> 00:30:32,276 Speaker 3: I'm not sure if you got to this part in 635 00:30:32,316 --> 00:30:34,276 Speaker 3: the book, the design for follow through, so you make 636 00:30:34,316 --> 00:30:37,076 Speaker 3: it easy for your family to do what you want 637 00:30:37,116 --> 00:30:39,876 Speaker 3: them to do. So that's what putting labels on bin 638 00:30:39,956 --> 00:30:41,676 Speaker 3: stuff and my whole house like that was when they 639 00:30:41,716 --> 00:30:44,436 Speaker 3: were little. I have really no labels anymore. But if 640 00:30:44,436 --> 00:30:46,716 Speaker 3: you get label happy, if that's your thing, do it, 641 00:30:46,756 --> 00:30:49,355 Speaker 3: like by all means, don't let me stop. You just 642 00:30:49,396 --> 00:30:51,956 Speaker 3: know it's not a requirement adding a donation station, a 643 00:30:51,996 --> 00:30:54,876 Speaker 3: permanent bin or bag or cardboard box in your home 644 00:30:54,916 --> 00:30:58,076 Speaker 3: where donates can go when people are ready. I put 645 00:30:58,116 --> 00:31:00,595 Speaker 3: it in my husband's closet, and I mean it can 646 00:31:00,636 --> 00:31:03,556 Speaker 3: fill up really quickly. And it's not necessarily that they're resisting. 647 00:31:03,596 --> 00:31:07,075 Speaker 3: It's not easy for them to let go. So beyond 648 00:31:07,116 --> 00:31:10,596 Speaker 3: that too, as I got a little bit older, it's 649 00:31:10,676 --> 00:31:14,676 Speaker 3: really ongoing conversations about our core values as a family. 650 00:31:14,796 --> 00:31:17,956 Speaker 3: And I think too, I'm always sharing what's in it 651 00:31:17,956 --> 00:31:20,956 Speaker 3: for them? What's in it for like, cause again, your partner, 652 00:31:21,036 --> 00:31:22,676 Speaker 3: your kids are like, why do I want to do that? 653 00:31:22,716 --> 00:31:24,236 Speaker 3: Why do I want to give my toys away? I 654 00:31:24,316 --> 00:31:26,836 Speaker 3: don't you know. But if you're like, this is why 655 00:31:26,956 --> 00:31:29,876 Speaker 3: we work so hard to simplify our home and make 656 00:31:29,916 --> 00:31:33,116 Speaker 3: it easy so that we can make these memories together, 657 00:31:33,236 --> 00:31:36,596 Speaker 3: so that we can read these extra bedtime stories and 658 00:31:36,716 --> 00:31:39,836 Speaker 3: Mommy's not so stressed, and dad's not so mad when 659 00:31:39,836 --> 00:31:42,476 Speaker 3: he gets home from work. Whatever it is. Again, you're 660 00:31:42,516 --> 00:31:45,876 Speaker 3: bringing them, inviting them into the conversation and inviting them 661 00:31:45,876 --> 00:31:49,476 Speaker 3: into the action. I don't recommend starting with our kids stuff. 662 00:31:49,476 --> 00:31:51,436 Speaker 3: I know it's the easiest to point out. Start with 663 00:31:51,476 --> 00:31:54,156 Speaker 3: your own. Say hey, look what I got rid of today. 664 00:31:54,196 --> 00:31:57,436 Speaker 3: I filled up My husband and kids knew I got 665 00:31:57,436 --> 00:32:01,115 Speaker 3: serious when I started going through my clothes because I 666 00:32:01,156 --> 00:32:04,356 Speaker 3: was like, it's everyone else's stuff, it's not me, it's 667 00:32:04,396 --> 00:32:07,756 Speaker 3: not me. It's not me, so, you know, and invited 668 00:32:07,796 --> 00:32:11,116 Speaker 3: them into a neutral space and walking them through. How 669 00:32:11,156 --> 00:32:13,356 Speaker 3: are you deciding while I'm using the twenty twenty rule. 670 00:32:13,556 --> 00:32:15,516 Speaker 3: Oh you know what, this one was hard for me 671 00:32:15,676 --> 00:32:17,516 Speaker 3: because I spent money on it, but you know, I 672 00:32:17,516 --> 00:32:18,876 Speaker 3: haven't used it, so I'm going to let it go. 673 00:32:19,636 --> 00:32:21,556 Speaker 3: And these conversations we have in our head during the 674 00:32:21,596 --> 00:32:25,596 Speaker 3: declutter process, even if it's just a quick audit, clutter audit. 675 00:32:25,636 --> 00:32:28,596 Speaker 3: I call them while you're making dinner, show your kid, hey, look, 676 00:32:28,676 --> 00:32:30,595 Speaker 3: mommy's getting rid of this garlic press. I haven't used 677 00:32:30,636 --> 00:32:33,076 Speaker 3: it in a year. I don't need it. And yes, 678 00:32:33,236 --> 00:32:35,356 Speaker 3: like all that, it adds up we're going to wonder 679 00:32:35,436 --> 00:32:37,476 Speaker 3: is it working. I think in parenting, I'm always like, 680 00:32:37,596 --> 00:32:39,516 Speaker 3: am I ruining my kid? Is it working? Am I? 681 00:32:39,876 --> 00:32:42,316 Speaker 3: Are they gonna go the opposite direct? We always worry 682 00:32:42,356 --> 00:32:44,676 Speaker 3: with it, whether it's faith or core values or things. 683 00:32:45,036 --> 00:32:46,916 Speaker 3: But I'm telling you what. They're nine and ten now, 684 00:32:46,956 --> 00:32:47,756 Speaker 3: and I'm. 685 00:32:47,876 --> 00:32:48,996 Speaker 2: Like, they get it. 686 00:32:49,276 --> 00:32:52,115 Speaker 3: They get it. Every year we ask them what do 687 00:32:52,116 --> 00:32:53,716 Speaker 3: you want for the holidays or your birthday? And they 688 00:32:53,716 --> 00:32:56,635 Speaker 3: always say, I want an experienced gift. They want they 689 00:32:56,636 --> 00:33:00,596 Speaker 3: want an experience, and like that's incredible, and there's nothing 690 00:33:00,596 --> 00:33:03,916 Speaker 3: wrong with physical gifts, and we still do those, but 691 00:33:03,956 --> 00:33:07,916 Speaker 3: it's just like they feel and there's no amount of 692 00:33:07,916 --> 00:33:11,315 Speaker 3: me preaching, talking, lecturing and nagging them that gets people 693 00:33:11,396 --> 00:33:13,796 Speaker 3: on board. It's like they feel it. And when your 694 00:33:13,836 --> 00:33:18,196 Speaker 3: partner feels it, and you're boys kids feel it, that 695 00:33:18,196 --> 00:33:20,595 Speaker 3: that's what debates people. I think to keep going and 696 00:33:20,676 --> 00:33:24,556 Speaker 3: it makes them understand like, wow, this is important and 697 00:33:24,596 --> 00:33:27,916 Speaker 3: hopefully they do, you know, clean up after themselves when 698 00:33:27,956 --> 00:33:30,236 Speaker 3: they have future partners and their own kids. And it's 699 00:33:30,236 --> 00:33:33,196 Speaker 3: a life skill. It really is a life skill we're building. 700 00:33:32,996 --> 00:33:35,196 Speaker 1: That you're building and you're teaching them and earlier when 701 00:33:35,236 --> 00:33:37,356 Speaker 1: you were talking about just the natural mess of life. 702 00:33:37,396 --> 00:33:40,595 Speaker 1: It made me think if a kid is just on 703 00:33:40,636 --> 00:33:44,075 Speaker 1: a phone or an iPad, they're making zero mess. So 704 00:33:44,116 --> 00:33:46,076 Speaker 1: it's like there's no mess to clean up, like, wow, 705 00:33:46,116 --> 00:33:49,036 Speaker 1: they just held that tablet. But there's also there's not 706 00:33:49,156 --> 00:33:52,196 Speaker 1: that fun, there's not that life, there's not that memory 707 00:33:52,196 --> 00:33:54,876 Speaker 1: made as a family. So you know, as we talk 708 00:33:54,916 --> 00:33:57,996 Speaker 1: about the happy home a lot, you know, delay those screens, 709 00:33:58,116 --> 00:34:00,716 Speaker 1: put those things away, go have fun, go make a mess. 710 00:34:00,756 --> 00:34:03,476 Speaker 1: That's the kind of mess that we're really after. Katie, 711 00:34:03,556 --> 00:34:05,916 Speaker 1: How can people find out more about you and get 712 00:34:05,956 --> 00:34:06,356 Speaker 1: your book? 713 00:34:06,796 --> 00:34:09,796 Speaker 3: Yeah, come hang out on the show Maximize Minimalist and 714 00:34:10,076 --> 00:34:12,875 Speaker 3: I can get my book Barnes and Noble, Amazon, wherever 715 00:34:12,916 --> 00:34:14,756 Speaker 3: you like to buy books, Making Home your Happy Place. 716 00:34:14,916 --> 00:34:17,356 Speaker 3: But check out the show and then I love Instagram 717 00:34:17,476 --> 00:34:20,636 Speaker 3: for social media. You can find me Katie Joy Wells and. 718 00:34:20,556 --> 00:34:22,196 Speaker 2: We'll have all those links in the show notes. 719 00:34:22,196 --> 00:34:24,556 Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Katie. This has been amazing. Thank 720 00:34:24,556 --> 00:34:27,636 Speaker 1: You've given us a lot of hope and direction, and 721 00:34:27,716 --> 00:34:29,276 Speaker 1: this is the kind of show we can re listen 722 00:34:29,316 --> 00:34:31,876 Speaker 1: to anytime we need that nudge to declutter. 723 00:34:31,996 --> 00:34:33,276 Speaker 2: Thanks so much, Thank you. 724 00:34:35,116 --> 00:34:38,476 Speaker 1: I hope you've enjoyed today's conversation, I'd love to keep 725 00:34:38,476 --> 00:34:40,156 Speaker 1: in touch beyond this podcast. 726 00:34:40,516 --> 00:34:42,436 Speaker 2: Click subscribe in the show. 727 00:34:42,156 --> 00:34:44,756 Speaker 1: Notes and I will give you my latest email to 728 00:34:44,836 --> 00:34:48,676 Speaker 1: keep up on what's happening with technology and kids. And 729 00:34:48,756 --> 00:34:51,276 Speaker 1: maybe you like reading or listening to books. 730 00:34:51,396 --> 00:34:52,556 Speaker 3: I have a lot of books. 731 00:34:52,636 --> 00:34:54,156 Speaker 2: You could start with The Big. 732 00:34:53,956 --> 00:34:59,076 Speaker 1: Three, Making Marriage Easier, Parents Rising, or Screen Kids. 733 00:34:59,676 --> 00:35:01,236 Speaker 2: A big thank you to the team at. 734 00:35:01,156 --> 00:35:04,276 Speaker 1: Life Audio for their partnership with the Happy Home podcast. 735 00:35:04,676 --> 00:35:06,516 Speaker 2: Check out lifeaudio dot com for. 736 00:35:06,676 --> 00:35:10,156 Speaker 1: Dozens of other faith related podcasts about prayer. 737 00:35:10,116 --> 00:35:11,395 Speaker 2: Bible study, and more. 738 00:35:12,036 --> 00:35:15,076 Speaker 1: Remember you don't have to come from a happy. 739 00:35:14,676 --> 00:35:18,396 Speaker 2: Home to create one. You too, can have a happy home.