1 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:03,560 Speaker 1: Life Audio. 2 00:00:06,720 --> 00:00:09,320 Speaker 2: Welcome to I Wish you could hear This, where we 3 00:00:09,480 --> 00:00:13,240 Speaker 2: explore great stories and simple, proven steps to help you 4 00:00:13,400 --> 00:00:15,960 Speaker 2: thrive in life, faith, and relationships. 5 00:00:16,040 --> 00:00:20,920 Speaker 3: In our research, we've heard hundreds of Hopefield strategies for marriage, parenting, leadership, 6 00:00:20,960 --> 00:00:24,319 Speaker 3: and life that are grounded in science and consistent with 7 00:00:24,360 --> 00:00:26,920 Speaker 3: biblical truth, and now you can hear them too. 8 00:00:28,920 --> 00:00:33,240 Speaker 2: Hi, I'm CHANTI feldthan. Is there some sort of emotional 9 00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:36,320 Speaker 2: pattern that you tend to repeat over and over but 10 00:00:36,400 --> 00:00:40,360 Speaker 2: wish you didn't. Maybe it's anger that rises up out 11 00:00:40,400 --> 00:00:43,760 Speaker 2: of nowhere and you find yourself lashing out even though 12 00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:48,599 Speaker 2: you know it's destructive. Maybe it's worry and anxiety that 13 00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:51,440 Speaker 2: keeps you up at night even though you know Jesus 14 00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:55,400 Speaker 2: said to not worry about tomorrow. Maybe you feel shame 15 00:00:55,640 --> 00:00:59,440 Speaker 2: or regret over choices that you made that you can't undo. 16 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:04,160 Speaker 2: If there is something that is keeping you stuck, then 17 00:01:04,240 --> 00:01:06,800 Speaker 2: you are in the right place. Because today on I 18 00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:09,840 Speaker 2: Wish you could hear this, we are going to dive 19 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:15,240 Speaker 2: into the concept of emotional hoarding and provide a practical 20 00:01:15,319 --> 00:01:23,720 Speaker 2: road to emotional freedom. Welcome everybody. Now you're probably wondering 21 00:01:23,760 --> 00:01:26,360 Speaker 2: why I'm here alone in the studio. I did not 22 00:01:26,640 --> 00:01:29,800 Speaker 2: fire Jeff from the podcast. He's still very much a 23 00:01:29,800 --> 00:01:33,600 Speaker 2: part of it. But today I have a really unique 24 00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:39,240 Speaker 2: opportunity to interview my friend Lorie Davies, who is also 25 00:01:39,480 --> 00:01:43,280 Speaker 2: the senior editor for our ministry. And so you are 26 00:01:43,280 --> 00:01:46,560 Speaker 2: in for a treat today because Lori has just released 27 00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:50,960 Speaker 2: a book called Emotional Hoarding, letting go of the stuff 28 00:01:50,960 --> 00:01:54,280 Speaker 2: that keeps you stuck. And today we're going to chat 29 00:01:54,360 --> 00:01:58,560 Speaker 2: about what emotional hoarding is, how it hurts us, and 30 00:01:58,760 --> 00:02:03,040 Speaker 2: how scripture shows us a much better way. So, Lourie, 31 00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:07,320 Speaker 2: I am so glad you agreed to be on the podcast. 32 00:02:08,080 --> 00:02:11,280 Speaker 1: Thanks for having me. I've had this date circled on 33 00:02:11,320 --> 00:02:12,720 Speaker 1: my calendar for a little while now. 34 00:02:12,840 --> 00:02:15,760 Speaker 2: Yes, we've both been looking forward to this. We're so excited. 35 00:02:15,960 --> 00:02:19,440 Speaker 2: I actually need to open, like, just open the window 36 00:02:19,560 --> 00:02:24,160 Speaker 2: for our listeners and let everybody know that this is 37 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:27,640 Speaker 2: one of my like So I'm so excited about this 38 00:02:27,720 --> 00:02:32,880 Speaker 2: because Jeff and I were actually in Phoenix having lunch, brunch, 39 00:02:33,000 --> 00:02:35,240 Speaker 2: something like that, dinner, I can't remember. We were at 40 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:38,800 Speaker 2: a restaurant with Lourie and her husband when Lourie got 41 00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:42,400 Speaker 2: the call that Moody Publishers was going to publish this book, 42 00:02:42,440 --> 00:02:45,720 Speaker 2: and we basically woke up the whole restaurant, I think 43 00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:46,720 Speaker 2: because we were screaming. 44 00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:51,800 Speaker 1: And it's true, there was audible response. What a gift 45 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:54,720 Speaker 1: that you were in my city. You know, I live 46 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:59,000 Speaker 1: so far apart. Yeah, I wrote one of my chapters 47 00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:01,520 Speaker 1: in Atlanta, So yes, there's been a little bit of 48 00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:04,520 Speaker 1: geographic crossover. But that was a super great gift to 49 00:03:04,600 --> 00:03:08,320 Speaker 1: have you at the lunch table with me sharing a 50 00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:10,960 Speaker 1: meal when I got the call that I would write 51 00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:11,320 Speaker 1: this book. 52 00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:13,560 Speaker 2: It's just so excited. It's just so exciting, and it's 53 00:03:13,760 --> 00:03:16,960 Speaker 2: such a good book. And I actually I had the 54 00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:20,280 Speaker 2: honor of writing the foreword for the book, and one 55 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:22,360 Speaker 2: of the things that I said in the forward is 56 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:25,959 Speaker 2: you are never going to think about your emotional life 57 00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:29,720 Speaker 2: the same way again, because as I read this, I 58 00:03:29,919 --> 00:03:32,840 Speaker 2: kept going, oh my gosh, oh my gosh, oh my gosh, 59 00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:37,880 Speaker 2: Like it really opened my eyes. And so just to 60 00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:42,880 Speaker 2: dive in to let everybody hear some of the insight 61 00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:44,680 Speaker 2: and give us a little bit of an on ramp 62 00:03:44,880 --> 00:03:47,800 Speaker 2: into what we're going to be talking about today, I'd 63 00:03:47,880 --> 00:03:50,840 Speaker 2: love to hear you explain for everybody what was it 64 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:53,440 Speaker 2: that really led you to write the book, Like, what 65 00:03:53,640 --> 00:03:55,400 Speaker 2: was it that really spurred this on? 66 00:03:56,200 --> 00:03:58,240 Speaker 1: There have been seasons in my life and maybe some 67 00:03:58,320 --> 00:04:01,000 Speaker 1: of your listeners will relate to this. I've been in 68 00:04:01,160 --> 00:04:05,520 Speaker 1: church and I've heard the pastor preach about freedom and 69 00:04:05,600 --> 00:04:09,720 Speaker 1: it really lights up something in my soul. And then 70 00:04:09,720 --> 00:04:12,280 Speaker 1: I leave and I realized that on Monday and Tuesday 71 00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:16,080 Speaker 1: and Wednesday, I'm not actually living a life that matches 72 00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:16,839 Speaker 1: up with that. 73 00:04:17,480 --> 00:04:20,960 Speaker 2: So I'm knowing my own talking about and our listeners 74 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:22,280 Speaker 2: have no idea what you're talking about. 75 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:25,279 Speaker 1: Yes, I think in my own life. I started to 76 00:04:25,400 --> 00:04:29,880 Speaker 1: sort of examine, well, why am I disconnected from the 77 00:04:29,880 --> 00:04:34,719 Speaker 1: freedom that Jesus offers, the thing he came to do, 78 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:37,760 Speaker 1: the thing he places highest value on that, Why don't 79 00:04:37,839 --> 00:04:40,400 Speaker 1: I feel that fully and freely? So there was sort 80 00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:43,200 Speaker 1: of a self examination, which I think is sort of 81 00:04:43,200 --> 00:04:46,440 Speaker 1: a natural thing that we do in midlife anyway. But 82 00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:48,920 Speaker 1: then on a parallel track to that, I have in 83 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:52,719 Speaker 1: one way or another been serving women in ministry for 84 00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:56,320 Speaker 1: a number of years now, and I realized I'm not 85 00:04:56,440 --> 00:05:00,560 Speaker 1: the only one. Yeah, So I thought, well, what would 86 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:03,800 Speaker 1: it look like to kind of take a look at 87 00:05:04,839 --> 00:05:07,279 Speaker 1: you know how physically. I think most of your listeners 88 00:05:07,320 --> 00:05:10,320 Speaker 1: will have some frame of reference for a physically hoarded home, 89 00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:15,880 Speaker 1: whether they got intersected with that personally or whether they've 90 00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:19,960 Speaker 1: just been flipping channels and they've seen kind of what 91 00:05:20,080 --> 00:05:25,200 Speaker 1: the the just the difficulty around that, both in the 92 00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:29,280 Speaker 1: person who hoards letting go of stuff and in people 93 00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:32,120 Speaker 1: who might have a view into that wanting to help 94 00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:36,480 Speaker 1: and kind of hitting a wall, right, Yeah, So I thought, well, 95 00:05:36,520 --> 00:05:40,360 Speaker 1: what would it look like to kind of examine that 96 00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:46,520 Speaker 1: and kind of look at a physically hoarded home and 97 00:05:46,640 --> 00:05:50,400 Speaker 1: the parallel that it has to an emotionally hoarded heart. 98 00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:55,320 Speaker 1: And what I found, Shanty was, there are some similarities 99 00:05:55,680 --> 00:06:00,279 Speaker 1: and very much like a hoarded home, a hoarded heart 100 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:05,520 Speaker 1: runs out of space. You know, we can't. In scripture 101 00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:08,720 Speaker 1: we're told to love the Lord with all our heart 102 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:11,719 Speaker 1: and all our soul, and all our mind and all 103 00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:14,279 Speaker 1: our strength, and Proverbs three five and six. We love 104 00:06:14,320 --> 00:06:17,400 Speaker 1: to quote this, trust in the Lord with all your 105 00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:20,960 Speaker 1: heart and lean not on your own understanding. So if 106 00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:24,280 Speaker 1: he wants all of our hearts, I wanted to take 107 00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:26,680 Speaker 1: a look at what's the path to giving my whole 108 00:06:26,720 --> 00:06:30,440 Speaker 1: heart to him? Because if it's cluttered up. If I've 109 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:36,320 Speaker 1: stacked and stockpiled things like regrets and resentment and bitterness 110 00:06:36,360 --> 00:06:40,800 Speaker 1: and anger and all that stuff, then am I really 111 00:06:40,839 --> 00:06:43,599 Speaker 1: loving him with all my heart? Am I really trusting 112 00:06:43,680 --> 00:06:44,480 Speaker 1: him with all my heart? 113 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:48,719 Speaker 2: It's such a good question, and yeah, for you, just 114 00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:51,839 Speaker 2: for our listeners to know, like LORI was the women's 115 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:56,200 Speaker 2: ministry director of a large church, Like she's talked to 116 00:06:56,440 --> 00:07:02,040 Speaker 2: so many different women, and as a lay counselor, like 117 00:07:02,120 --> 00:07:06,279 Speaker 2: you've seen this play out over and over and over. 118 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:09,479 Speaker 2: One thing before we jump into some of the things 119 00:07:09,480 --> 00:07:11,680 Speaker 2: that you cover, because I want to make sure that 120 00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:15,880 Speaker 2: we really dive in to helping people understand what emotional 121 00:07:15,880 --> 00:07:20,480 Speaker 2: hoarding is and what some of that looks like, because 122 00:07:20,520 --> 00:07:22,600 Speaker 2: that's where I was going, Oh my gosh, oh my gosh, 123 00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:24,680 Speaker 2: oh my gosh, Like I hadn't quite thought of this 124 00:07:24,680 --> 00:07:28,040 Speaker 2: this way before. But before we dive into that, just technically, 125 00:07:28,480 --> 00:07:31,800 Speaker 2: we are talking as if this is only for women, 126 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:35,560 Speaker 2: and even though the book is primarily written to women, 127 00:07:35,960 --> 00:07:39,240 Speaker 2: the concept it applies to everybody, doesn't it. 128 00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:44,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think do you remember the old Secret commercial 129 00:07:44,240 --> 00:07:47,760 Speaker 1: from I don't know that I'm really going to date Ash. 130 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:51,840 Speaker 1: We'll just say it was several years ago, but the 131 00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:55,760 Speaker 1: slogan was strong enough for a man, made for a woman. Okay, 132 00:07:55,840 --> 00:07:59,960 Speaker 1: I think that kind of applies here. There are stories 133 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:04,240 Speaker 1: and phrases that are aimed, you know, a little more 134 00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:07,960 Speaker 1: explicitly at women. But I think men would find a 135 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:10,720 Speaker 1: home in these pages. In fact, I've gotten some feedback, 136 00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:14,560 Speaker 1: early feedback from men who have read it, and they're like, oh, 137 00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:19,920 Speaker 1: I do this too. It looks different. I think it's 138 00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:23,720 Speaker 1: it looks different. For example, let's pick on anger for 139 00:08:23,760 --> 00:08:28,440 Speaker 1: a minute. I think the way men and women tend 140 00:08:29,080 --> 00:08:33,720 Speaker 1: generally to express anger is different. You know, men may 141 00:08:33,960 --> 00:08:36,960 Speaker 1: kind of when we think about hoarding, men may kind 142 00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:42,559 Speaker 1: of let harder emotions build up fear. I'm worried I'm 143 00:08:42,559 --> 00:08:46,280 Speaker 1: not going to be a good, strong provider for my family, 144 00:08:46,400 --> 00:08:48,880 Speaker 1: and I'm afraid all the time, and it comes out 145 00:08:48,920 --> 00:08:54,200 Speaker 1: as anger, like a flash of anger. Women. Again, generally 146 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:57,520 Speaker 1: I'm generalizing, but women tend to kind of be more 147 00:08:57,600 --> 00:09:02,199 Speaker 1: exasperated or irritated, a little bit passive aggressive about it. 148 00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:05,880 Speaker 2: Oh no, I know, for people who aren't watching on video, 149 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:08,000 Speaker 2: you just saw me cringe. 150 00:09:08,720 --> 00:09:10,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, Shanty just had a physical react. 151 00:09:10,720 --> 00:09:12,880 Speaker 2: I just had a physical reaction to that, because this 152 00:09:12,960 --> 00:09:14,480 Speaker 2: is one of the things when I was reading the book, 153 00:09:14,559 --> 00:09:19,160 Speaker 2: was like, oh my gosh, that is my issue, that exasperation, 154 00:09:19,400 --> 00:09:23,320 Speaker 2: that irritation, and it's just you're right, it is different. 155 00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:26,240 Speaker 2: But I'm glad to know that if there are men 156 00:09:26,400 --> 00:09:30,200 Speaker 2: who are listening in on this one. Guys, you're welcome here, 157 00:09:30,360 --> 00:09:32,520 Speaker 2: just so you know you're going to hear some things. 158 00:09:33,280 --> 00:09:36,600 Speaker 1: I think Shanty, it's important to acknowledge quickly that, for example, 159 00:09:36,640 --> 00:09:40,440 Speaker 1: I wrote a whole chapter on false guilt. Now men 160 00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:43,520 Speaker 1: may not struggle as much with false guilt. Feeling guilty, 161 00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:46,160 Speaker 1: this sense of feeling guilty all the time. 162 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:47,280 Speaker 2: That's such a mom guilt thing. 163 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:51,600 Speaker 1: Yes it is. It is. And so men who are listening, 164 00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:56,160 Speaker 1: if your wife is paralyzed by mom guilt, never feeling 165 00:09:56,200 --> 00:09:59,559 Speaker 1: like she's measuring up, I'm a terrible mom, I'm wrecking 166 00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:02,880 Speaker 1: our kid. I'm not doing it like everyone else on 167 00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:09,120 Speaker 1: social media, you know all that stuff. Boy, a man 168 00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:12,600 Speaker 1: who reads that chapter could have really deep insight into 169 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:17,079 Speaker 1: how to serve his wife and health kind of negotiate 170 00:10:17,160 --> 00:10:20,160 Speaker 1: this thing that she's buried under because mom guilt is 171 00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:23,320 Speaker 1: false gill. Both are from the enemy and there's a 172 00:10:23,360 --> 00:10:25,160 Speaker 1: really clear way to dismantle that. 173 00:10:25,480 --> 00:10:28,520 Speaker 2: So that is a really good point. Okay, so guys, 174 00:10:28,880 --> 00:10:33,400 Speaker 2: that is another reason why you might be interested in 175 00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:43,439 Speaker 2: this particular episode. Let's jump into really kind of the 176 00:10:43,880 --> 00:10:49,680 Speaker 2: content of this conversation so that people know, you know 177 00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:55,960 Speaker 2: where we're going. Here's the starting point. I think most 178 00:10:56,000 --> 00:10:58,320 Speaker 2: of the people who are listening to this, everyone's heard 179 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:02,079 Speaker 2: the term emotional baggage, right. We have lots of jokes 180 00:11:02,120 --> 00:11:06,400 Speaker 2: about this, we make memes about it. But in your book, 181 00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:11,280 Speaker 2: you actually you say pretty directly, emotional baggage isn't really 182 00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:14,240 Speaker 2: our problem, Like the real problem is this what you 183 00:11:14,280 --> 00:11:18,280 Speaker 2: call emotional hoarding. Now you started in on this, can 184 00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:20,959 Speaker 2: you go a little bit further and explain what you 185 00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:23,520 Speaker 2: mean by emotional hoarding specifically? 186 00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:27,880 Speaker 1: Sure, thanks for asking. I think, as you mentioned, emotional 187 00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:31,240 Speaker 1: baggage is pretty much out there in our vernacular, and generally, 188 00:11:31,280 --> 00:11:35,760 Speaker 1: I think what we mean by that is unresolved emotions, 189 00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:40,480 Speaker 1: difficult emotions that haven't come to a conclusion. There's some 190 00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:46,960 Speaker 1: kind of emotional you know, kind of pain. Emotional hoarding 191 00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:52,559 Speaker 1: takes that up and notch with difficult, unresolved emotions that 192 00:11:52,600 --> 00:12:00,280 Speaker 1: we are holding onto okay, sometimes willfully, like you had 193 00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:03,320 Speaker 1: a physical reaction a minute ago. I'll preach to myself 194 00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:05,840 Speaker 1: for a minute, I have been guilty in the past 195 00:12:05,840 --> 00:12:10,120 Speaker 1: of holding on to a grudge, which is a nice 196 00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:13,760 Speaker 1: way of saying I'm holding onto bitterness because I liked 197 00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:16,520 Speaker 1: how it felt in my hands. I wasn't ready to 198 00:12:16,679 --> 00:12:20,600 Speaker 1: let that offense go, you know. So sometimes it's wilful. 199 00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:26,280 Speaker 1: Other times it's maybe self protective, like we were picking 200 00:12:26,360 --> 00:12:30,160 Speaker 1: on false guilt a minute ago, mom guilt. Sometimes the 201 00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:33,760 Speaker 1: reason that we are feel false guilt, that we say 202 00:12:33,880 --> 00:12:36,720 Speaker 1: sorry all the time for things that aren't our fault, 203 00:12:36,760 --> 00:12:42,480 Speaker 1: is because we learned that in childhood. Sometimes so sometimes 204 00:12:42,520 --> 00:12:48,440 Speaker 1: it's self protective. And you know, sometimes we in a 205 00:12:49,480 --> 00:12:52,840 Speaker 1: work with me for a minute, in a weird or 206 00:12:52,880 --> 00:12:56,199 Speaker 1: maybe warped kind of way, we make it almost noble, 207 00:12:56,679 --> 00:12:59,320 Speaker 1: like if I hold on too that regret, or if 208 00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:02,400 Speaker 1: I hold on to this shame, I won't sin again, 209 00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:05,520 Speaker 1: or I won't make that mistake again. So there's all 210 00:13:05,559 --> 00:13:07,400 Speaker 1: sorts of reasons we hold on. But when I talk 211 00:13:07,440 --> 00:13:10,959 Speaker 1: about emotional hoarding, the high level view is these are 212 00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:14,320 Speaker 1: things we are, you know, unwilling to let go of 213 00:13:14,440 --> 00:13:18,880 Speaker 1: or unable or or maybe we're unaware. We don't even 214 00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:19,719 Speaker 1: know we're holding. 215 00:13:19,480 --> 00:13:22,439 Speaker 2: On Yeah, okay, so that gets us, I think, all 216 00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:25,840 Speaker 2: on the same page. So if we're not aware of it, 217 00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:30,040 Speaker 2: how do you how can you tell? Because one of 218 00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:31,960 Speaker 2: the things that the book did for me as I 219 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:34,400 Speaker 2: was reading through it was it helped like shine a 220 00:13:34,440 --> 00:13:38,120 Speaker 2: spotlight on Oh my gosh, I am an emotional hoarder 221 00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:41,160 Speaker 2: in this way and this way. So how can someone 222 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:44,000 Speaker 2: tell if they are hoarding? 223 00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:48,880 Speaker 1: Yeah? Well, high level, so ten thousand foot view. If 224 00:13:49,320 --> 00:13:52,640 Speaker 1: if you're ruminating on something, just thinking about it all 225 00:13:52,679 --> 00:13:55,520 Speaker 1: the time wakes you up at night, it's the first 226 00:13:55,559 --> 00:13:58,720 Speaker 1: thing you think of in the morning. The converse to 227 00:13:58,760 --> 00:14:02,000 Speaker 1: that would be if you're completely stuffing it, like I 228 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:04,480 Speaker 1: don't want to feel this feeling. I don't like what 229 00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:08,000 Speaker 1: it does inside me, so I'm gonna sweep it under 230 00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:09,840 Speaker 1: the rug. I mean, look at the language we use. 231 00:14:09,880 --> 00:14:12,920 Speaker 1: We even sort of use the language of a physical 232 00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:16,400 Speaker 1: structure sometimes, you know, or our secrets are hiding in 233 00:14:16,480 --> 00:14:20,160 Speaker 1: the closet, you know, which the emotion attached to that 234 00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:23,600 Speaker 1: is dread right, So I think, are we thinking about 235 00:14:23,640 --> 00:14:26,680 Speaker 1: it all the time or shoving it under the rug? 236 00:14:27,640 --> 00:14:30,680 Speaker 1: It also comes out in our physiology. You know, how 237 00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:34,840 Speaker 1: are you sleeping? How's your how's your how's your tummy? 238 00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:35,960 Speaker 2: Right? 239 00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:41,080 Speaker 1: You know, we start to experience some of that are 240 00:14:41,400 --> 00:14:45,760 Speaker 1: you in fight or flight all the time? Which triggers 241 00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:48,760 Speaker 1: all sorts of effects through the body and reeks havoc. 242 00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:50,720 Speaker 1: So those are some of the high level views. But 243 00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:54,960 Speaker 1: each chapter, as you already mentioned, deals with an emotion, 244 00:14:55,200 --> 00:14:57,960 Speaker 1: and in each chapter I give kind of a rundown 245 00:14:58,040 --> 00:15:04,800 Speaker 1: on hey, you might be hoarding this emotion if A, B, C, D, E, 246 00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:10,920 Speaker 1: and F. Worthlessness was one of my favorite ones to 247 00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:15,800 Speaker 1: kind of run through that grid kind of how do 248 00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:18,200 Speaker 1: we know if we're holding on to it? Some of 249 00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:19,120 Speaker 1: your listeners might. 250 00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:20,800 Speaker 2: Your book up, hold your book up so people can 251 00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:23,200 Speaker 2: see what it looks like. Oh okay, for those who 252 00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:25,160 Speaker 2: are there, we go. I love that cover, by the way, 253 00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:26,400 Speaker 2: I just absolutely love it. 254 00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:29,560 Speaker 1: So I will say my publisher, Moody Publishers, hit a 255 00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:31,760 Speaker 1: home run on it. I cried when I saw the cover. 256 00:15:32,120 --> 00:15:36,080 Speaker 1: That's okay, So let's just pick on worthlessness for a minute, 257 00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:38,760 Speaker 1: because some of your listeners might be like, well, who 258 00:15:38,760 --> 00:15:44,520 Speaker 1: would hoard worthlessness? Who would collect that? Who would collect emptiness? 259 00:15:44,640 --> 00:15:49,120 Speaker 1: Or here are some clues that this might be you. 260 00:15:49,280 --> 00:15:56,280 Speaker 1: Are you people pleaser? Do you, you know, need to perform? 261 00:15:56,440 --> 00:16:02,200 Speaker 1: Are you attention seeking? Are you a perfectionist? So you 262 00:16:02,280 --> 00:16:07,520 Speaker 1: need to achieve unrealistic goals to find a sense of value? 263 00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:15,200 Speaker 1: How's your comparison and how's your boundary setting? So negative 264 00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:18,400 Speaker 1: self talk? How do you talk to yourself? You know? 265 00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:21,200 Speaker 1: Do you say things to yourself you would never dream 266 00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:24,400 Speaker 1: of saying to other people. If that starts to sound 267 00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:28,040 Speaker 1: like you or someone you know, worthlessness might be the 268 00:16:28,040 --> 00:16:30,880 Speaker 1: core wound in play there. So each chapter has kind 269 00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:32,840 Speaker 1: of a rundown like that that can give you some 270 00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:36,600 Speaker 1: cues and clues that this emotion might be something you're 271 00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:37,080 Speaker 1: holding on too. 272 00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:40,760 Speaker 2: I that is so helpful. Okay, now I'm going to 273 00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:45,000 Speaker 2: just be really open here for a minute. I was 274 00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:49,560 Speaker 2: really struck right out of the gate, hit me over 275 00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:56,160 Speaker 2: the head with a mallet by your chapter on worry, right, 276 00:16:56,280 --> 00:16:58,240 Speaker 2: I realized. 277 00:16:57,840 --> 00:16:58,320 Speaker 1: How was that? 278 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:06,359 Speaker 2: Well, that's my question for you. My my brain in 279 00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:08,600 Speaker 2: the middle of the night, in the middle of the day, 280 00:17:09,600 --> 00:17:15,720 Speaker 2: my brain wants to cycle through the things I'm worried about, 281 00:17:15,880 --> 00:17:20,080 Speaker 2: like you and I and just as this is just 282 00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:24,320 Speaker 2: a silly example, but it's these little examples that make 283 00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:28,320 Speaker 2: everyday examples. So you and I actually tried to record 284 00:17:28,359 --> 00:17:30,719 Speaker 2: this podcast a few weeks ago. We had all these 285 00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:36,160 Speaker 2: technical issues, and so we decided, let's let's just try 286 00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:40,520 Speaker 2: this again. And the night that the night before we recorded, 287 00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:43,960 Speaker 2: I was up in the middle of the night because 288 00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:48,160 Speaker 2: this was during a government shut down, and my daughter, 289 00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:52,800 Speaker 2: who is twenty five years old, who is a consultant, 290 00:17:52,840 --> 00:17:57,560 Speaker 2: she's an engineer, was having to fly to an area 291 00:17:57,680 --> 00:18:01,399 Speaker 2: that has been notorious for having to shut down the 292 00:18:01,440 --> 00:18:04,960 Speaker 2: airport because there were no TSA officers able to work 293 00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:09,520 Speaker 2: during the government shutdown, and so she was like supposed 294 00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:12,080 Speaker 2: to leave at you know, twelve thirty in the afternoon, 295 00:18:12,160 --> 00:18:14,919 Speaker 2: she ended up leaving at like eleven at night, and 296 00:18:15,119 --> 00:18:18,320 Speaker 2: on the way there, they closed the airport, so they 297 00:18:18,359 --> 00:18:22,000 Speaker 2: had to divert to a different airport. And so I'm 298 00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:25,480 Speaker 2: asleep right like, I didn't know that this had happened. 299 00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:27,479 Speaker 2: All I knew is that she had a really you know, 300 00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:30,520 Speaker 2: bad experience all day waiting at the airport. So I 301 00:18:30,640 --> 00:18:32,840 Speaker 2: get up to use the restroom or something, get a 302 00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:37,679 Speaker 2: glass of water, and I see on my phone that 303 00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:41,919 Speaker 2: I'd gotten several texts in and by now it's like 304 00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:47,360 Speaker 2: one in the morning and I pull up and it's 305 00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:50,639 Speaker 2: from her, And I pull up my Life three sixty app, 306 00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:54,080 Speaker 2: and which you know, our family we all have, you know, 307 00:18:54,119 --> 00:18:56,480 Speaker 2: the tracking app. We all love kind of keeping tabs 308 00:18:56,520 --> 00:18:59,240 Speaker 2: on each other. It's one of our family things. But 309 00:18:59,359 --> 00:19:03,040 Speaker 2: I see that she is Wow, wait a minute, she's 310 00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:05,679 Speaker 2: not where she's supposed to be. She's two states away 311 00:19:06,760 --> 00:19:12,480 Speaker 2: and she's on She's driving on a turnpike at two 312 00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:17,000 Speaker 2: o'clock in the morning, and not a great turnpike either, 313 00:19:17,119 --> 00:19:19,320 Speaker 2: Like it's not a great area. And I'm like, what 314 00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:22,640 Speaker 2: the heck is going on? You know, I'm like all 315 00:19:22,760 --> 00:19:27,639 Speaker 2: these you know, worries, and and so I ended up 316 00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:31,520 Speaker 2: actually calling her to say I see her moving. What's 317 00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:35,320 Speaker 2: going on? She explained the whole thing, but I was 318 00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:39,879 Speaker 2: not able to sleep now here I am. I'm the 319 00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:43,560 Speaker 2: mom of a twenty five year old, right, And yet 320 00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:46,600 Speaker 2: it was like it kept coming back, like did she 321 00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:50,280 Speaker 2: rechro tell yet she's driving through this bad area? And 322 00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:54,320 Speaker 2: you know, it's it's one of those things that I 323 00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:59,840 Speaker 2: would love to be able to not hold on to that, 324 00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:06,119 Speaker 2: And so what is it that causes us to hold 325 00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:11,240 Speaker 2: on to those worries. You were saying, it serves a purpose, 326 00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:14,840 Speaker 2: like it's serving a purpose in us. Is it that 327 00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:18,719 Speaker 2: I think somehow I'm going to magically get her safely 328 00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:21,240 Speaker 2: to her hotel if I worry about it enough, Like. 329 00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:24,120 Speaker 1: Well, what I mean, even Jesus spoke to them, right, 330 00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:27,560 Speaker 1: don't worry about tomorrow. Each day has enough. Yes, we're 331 00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:31,360 Speaker 1: trouble of its own. Yeah. Well, first of all, let 332 00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:35,679 Speaker 1: me just by the way, fun fact aside, Shanty and 333 00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:37,600 Speaker 1: I both have twenty five year old morgans. 334 00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:39,200 Speaker 2: Yes, we do mind it. 335 00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:43,399 Speaker 1: Sack minds a young man, Trus is a young woman. Yeah, 336 00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:46,200 Speaker 1: so that's fun. First of all, Shanty, I think it's 337 00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:51,520 Speaker 1: completely natural and normal that you experienced worry when your 338 00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:54,119 Speaker 1: daughter was driving in an unsafe area at two in 339 00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:57,119 Speaker 1: the morning. That's not out of bounds. I would be 340 00:20:57,320 --> 00:21:00,320 Speaker 1: concerned about you. Thank you as a friend and as 341 00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:02,959 Speaker 1: a mom if you didn't have some level of like 342 00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:04,480 Speaker 1: the worry rises right. 343 00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:07,760 Speaker 2: With what anxiety is for, right, like it's moving a 344 00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:08,960 Speaker 2: purpose of some kind. 345 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:14,720 Speaker 1: Yes, so I think your question speaks more to if 346 00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:17,160 Speaker 1: I can't sleep tonight and I can't sleep tomorrow night 347 00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:22,879 Speaker 1: and I'm constantly paralyzed by worry, with worry for my 348 00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:26,680 Speaker 1: kids or whatever your listeners. 349 00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:27,560 Speaker 2: Want checking the tracking app. 350 00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:30,119 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I was shocked when I was writing 351 00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:33,959 Speaker 1: the book. There's actually a term called meta worry, and 352 00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:39,200 Speaker 1: it's worry about how much you worry my goodness. Okay, 353 00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:45,199 Speaker 1: so let's stop that. I you know, I think I 354 00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:49,400 Speaker 1: think as women, I think it's safe to say we uh, 355 00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:54,080 Speaker 1: we're pretty good warriors, you know. And I think sometimes 356 00:21:54,119 --> 00:21:58,280 Speaker 1: we confuse worrying with problem solving. So if I just 357 00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:00,840 Speaker 1: worry about this, I'm going to get to a solution. 358 00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:05,480 Speaker 1: One of the clinical experts that I interviewed for the 359 00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:10,000 Speaker 1: book offered that, and I think that that really landed 360 00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:11,879 Speaker 1: with me. Like, if I just I'm a big I 361 00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:14,840 Speaker 1: used to be a newspaper journalist, if anybody remembers what 362 00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:18,600 Speaker 1: newspapers were, and so I'm a kind of just the 363 00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:22,080 Speaker 1: facts person. So if I just get more facts, that 364 00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:27,360 Speaker 1: will help me not worry. But that's not how worry works. Worry, 365 00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:30,720 Speaker 1: if we don't close the loop on, it just becomes 366 00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:35,360 Speaker 1: this runaway thing that really can take over our lives 367 00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:40,679 Speaker 1: and our thinking and starts to wreck our relationships. Certainly, 368 00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:43,280 Speaker 1: wrecks our sleep as you experienced. I mean it can, 369 00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:46,560 Speaker 1: it can spill over into We'll have a hard time 370 00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:51,159 Speaker 1: making decisions because our brain's always clicking with how how 371 00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:53,600 Speaker 1: do I close this worry loop? And guess what we're 372 00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:56,320 Speaker 1: worried about one thing? Haven't closed that loop. Then another 373 00:22:56,359 --> 00:22:59,840 Speaker 1: worry comes, Then another worry comes, then another worry comes, 374 00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:02,720 Speaker 1: and one of the clinicians I interviewed said, it's just 375 00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:06,240 Speaker 1: too much. Eventually we shut down. You can't even do it. 376 00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:09,680 Speaker 1: So we need a way out of that worry. First 377 00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:11,399 Speaker 1: of all, we need to give ourselves a little bit 378 00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:14,920 Speaker 1: of grace and understand the worry I'm experiencing is normal 379 00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:20,760 Speaker 1: and it's good, but it crosses over into something that 380 00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:24,359 Speaker 1: can consume us if we don't get a lock on 381 00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:26,040 Speaker 1: what's my path out of this? 382 00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:30,040 Speaker 2: So okay, so take us on, for example, a path 383 00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:35,600 Speaker 2: out for and I'll use back to my example. I've 384 00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:40,919 Speaker 2: talked to Morgan. It's you know, I'm she's okay, she's 385 00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:44,040 Speaker 2: you know, on a on her journey for an hour, 386 00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:46,720 Speaker 2: another hour and a half till she gets to her 387 00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:50,040 Speaker 2: hotel in another state because she's having to drive instead 388 00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:56,040 Speaker 2: of fly. And my brain I want to be able 389 00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:58,800 Speaker 2: to go back to sleep. I want to not be 390 00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:01,960 Speaker 2: worrying about, well, you know, has she reached the hotel yet? 391 00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:05,560 Speaker 2: Has she reached the hotel yet? And I want to 392 00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:12,000 Speaker 2: not be obsessively like checking the tracking app, checking my 393 00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:15,399 Speaker 2: phone and tomorrow and the next day and the next day, 394 00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:19,399 Speaker 2: because there's always something right. So what do I do 395 00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:22,119 Speaker 2: to get freedom from that? Take me through an example 396 00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:24,119 Speaker 2: of a process. So the first step, it sounds like, 397 00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:27,399 Speaker 2: is to tell yourself this is normal, like ish, like 398 00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:31,480 Speaker 2: anxiety is there for a reason. It's just bad when 399 00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:33,800 Speaker 2: it goes beyond what that reason is. And for us 400 00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:37,240 Speaker 2: to think by worrying, I can problem solve it. 401 00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:41,080 Speaker 1: Right, right, which is checking three sixty all the time. 402 00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:43,560 Speaker 1: If I just check the app again, it's going to 403 00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:47,320 Speaker 1: lead me to resolution. But there's a much better way, okay, 404 00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:51,440 Speaker 1: And so remember when I don't think people use the 405 00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:54,840 Speaker 1: phrase so much anymore, But there used to be this like, well, 406 00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:58,360 Speaker 1: if you can't sleep, try counting sheep. It turns out 407 00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:02,240 Speaker 1: there's a vastly better way. And let's just use your example. 408 00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:05,560 Speaker 1: You know, we haven't talked about this. Your listeners need 409 00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:08,359 Speaker 1: to know we haven't. This isn't rehearsed. We're just let's 410 00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:10,320 Speaker 1: just workshop this example in real time. 411 00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:11,119 Speaker 2: Yeah, please do so. 412 00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:13,880 Speaker 1: One of my favorite passages in scripture, and I know this. 413 00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:16,520 Speaker 1: We have a shared love for this passage. It's Philippians 414 00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:21,919 Speaker 1: four eight. It's all the whatevers, whatever is true, whatever 415 00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:29,280 Speaker 1: is noble, whatever is just or right, depending on your translation. So, really, 416 00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:37,159 Speaker 1: what this is, Shanty, is a systematic way to re calibrate. 417 00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:39,520 Speaker 2: Our thoughts, okay, to land on. 418 00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:43,919 Speaker 1: Places that God wants our thoughts to go. You know, 419 00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:46,600 Speaker 1: all the whatevers, whatever is this, whatever is that? How 420 00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:48,400 Speaker 1: does that end? You probably know it by heart. 421 00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:50,280 Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, no, because I always. 422 00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:51,240 Speaker 1: Think on these things. 423 00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:52,119 Speaker 2: Think on these things. 424 00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:56,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, think on these things. So the Lord is telling us, so, Shanty, 425 00:25:56,240 --> 00:26:00,240 Speaker 1: you're racked with worry. Your daughter is driving. It's crazy late, 426 00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:03,800 Speaker 1: she's a young woman on the road. You're racked with 427 00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:07,760 Speaker 1: worry about that. And the Lord after you kind of 428 00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:11,720 Speaker 1: experience that flush of what is very natural, the Lord says, hey, Shanty, 429 00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:16,639 Speaker 1: think about these things. So first of all, what is true? 430 00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:22,440 Speaker 1: Whatever is true? So with your example, what I mean 431 00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:26,480 Speaker 1: a really high level truth is the Lord knows exactly 432 00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:30,879 Speaker 1: where your daughter is on the map. Yeah, he cares 433 00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:34,800 Speaker 1: about her more than you even have capacity to. He 434 00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:38,640 Speaker 1: protects her, He guards her, he's fiercely jealous over her. 435 00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:43,200 Speaker 1: He can send an army of angels to protect her, 436 00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:48,480 Speaker 1: surround her car. Right, that's true. And a friend pointed 437 00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:50,639 Speaker 1: this out to me years ago. You know, all of 438 00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:55,840 Speaker 1: these whatevers are translated differently in different translations of the Bible. 439 00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:57,560 Speaker 1: But true is always. 440 00:26:57,240 --> 00:27:00,399 Speaker 2: True, and I love that. 441 00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:02,679 Speaker 1: It's a great starting point, and I believe it's our 442 00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:05,359 Speaker 1: starting point for a reason. So what's true about the 443 00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:09,560 Speaker 1: situation or true about God? And the next one, whatever 444 00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:12,560 Speaker 1: is noble? So this one is sort of like I 445 00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:14,920 Speaker 1: even sit up straighter in my chair when I say 446 00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:19,040 Speaker 1: that word. There's a there's a way to this kind 447 00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:22,720 Speaker 1: of So it may not apply so cleanly to your 448 00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:24,840 Speaker 1: example with your daughter, but let's say you're in an 449 00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:28,879 Speaker 1: argument with somebody, somebody you love, somebody you care about, 450 00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:32,879 Speaker 1: and there or maybe there's been just a little jab 451 00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:36,359 Speaker 1: and there's an offense there. So with this whatever is noble, 452 00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:38,920 Speaker 1: there's there's really a call to kind of pull your 453 00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:43,640 Speaker 1: thoughts away from what is petty or minor or shallow 454 00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:49,720 Speaker 1: and really fix your thoughts on what's noble. Like, Let's 455 00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:52,439 Speaker 1: say you and I got tangled up about something. I 456 00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:55,280 Speaker 1: think we've been friends long enough and we've worked together 457 00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:58,600 Speaker 1: long enough to trust each other to know that if 458 00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:00,919 Speaker 1: I said something, you know, maybe you could look at 459 00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:04,639 Speaker 1: that and go, well, I bet she's tired. She's not 460 00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:09,159 Speaker 1: usually like that. So I'm gonna I'm going to choose 461 00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:11,199 Speaker 1: not to be offended. I'm not going to look at 462 00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:14,000 Speaker 1: the minor. I'm going to give a more generous view 463 00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:19,719 Speaker 1: to my friend here. Yeah, so whatever is right a 464 00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:22,240 Speaker 1: line you're thinking with what God says is right? So 465 00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:27,119 Speaker 1: back to your daughter. We serve a God who really 466 00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:33,040 Speaker 1: cares about working all things out for good, you know, 467 00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:36,480 Speaker 1: So you can rest in that. You can then start 468 00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:40,880 Speaker 1: to maybe slip into sleep. Whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, 469 00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:46,240 Speaker 1: whatever is admirable, excellent, or praiseworthy. I love that last one. 470 00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:49,880 Speaker 1: Chuck Swindahl writes, think of this category as containing the 471 00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:52,000 Speaker 1: things that are fit for God to hear. 472 00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:53,360 Speaker 2: Oh, I love that. 473 00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:56,840 Speaker 1: So even if we can't come up with something, it's 474 00:28:56,880 --> 00:28:59,560 Speaker 1: hard to come up with something admirable, excellent, or praiseworthy 475 00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:01,680 Speaker 1: when you're nots about your daughter on the highway at 476 00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:05,080 Speaker 1: two in the morning. But often we can just flip 477 00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:09,360 Speaker 1: this right into worship. Yeah, And I have noticed in 478 00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:13,320 Speaker 1: my life it's really hard to worry and worship at 479 00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:17,400 Speaker 1: the same time. Worship really just swallows the other up. 480 00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:20,680 Speaker 1: So it's a systematic and I know, shanty of all 481 00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:22,680 Speaker 1: people in my life, you love that because you want 482 00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:25,840 Speaker 1: the process. It's right, It's there's the process here, It's 483 00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:26,600 Speaker 1: in the Bible. 484 00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:31,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I appreciate that so much. I am 485 00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:35,280 Speaker 2: new in trying to think about things this way because 486 00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:37,920 Speaker 2: you know, I just read your book for the purposes 487 00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:39,960 Speaker 2: of writing the forward. Just you know, it was just 488 00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:42,920 Speaker 2: a few months ago, and I'm still very much processing 489 00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:48,720 Speaker 2: through that. But what I will say for everybody to 490 00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:53,240 Speaker 2: be aware of is you don't realize how much freedom 491 00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:56,960 Speaker 2: you're missing until you actually get it by going through 492 00:29:57,280 --> 00:30:00,680 Speaker 2: some of these processes. Like you know that it's kind 493 00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:03,320 Speaker 2: of like when you're sick and you didn't realize how 494 00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:05,120 Speaker 2: sick you were until you suddenly feel better. 495 00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:06,320 Speaker 1: You're like, whoa feel better? 496 00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:08,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's you know, like that. 497 00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:13,360 Speaker 1: A few months ago, I was really worried about something 498 00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:17,600 Speaker 1: like paralyzed, worried about it, and my son was over 499 00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:23,600 Speaker 1: and I was talking to him about it, and he said, well, Mom, 500 00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:26,280 Speaker 1: you know, you wrote a whole chapter on this, and 501 00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:29,360 Speaker 1: I kind of was like, well, yeah, I did. So 502 00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:32,440 Speaker 1: I went and I literally read the chapter and I 503 00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:37,479 Speaker 1: kind of started because there's more after that, more before 504 00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:39,520 Speaker 1: and more after, and I kind of worked the whole thing, 505 00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:41,600 Speaker 1: and I came out into the kitchen and I was like, guys, 506 00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:45,920 Speaker 1: it works like it works. Imagine that scripture would reach 507 00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:51,440 Speaker 1: through time, be transcendent, be powerful, help lead us to victory, 508 00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:54,560 Speaker 1: do all the things that it promises to do. But yeah, 509 00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:57,840 Speaker 1: so it was it's like I'm embarrassed to admit that. 510 00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:01,920 Speaker 2: Bet No, it makes total sense. I've had very similar 511 00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:07,000 Speaker 2: anyone who has heard me speak on stage, anyone who's 512 00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:10,200 Speaker 2: heard me do a marriage event or women's event, Like 513 00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:12,680 Speaker 2: you need to know that, Like half the time I'm 514 00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:14,720 Speaker 2: standing up there in my mouth is moving and I'm 515 00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:17,160 Speaker 2: saying X y Z, and I'm going, you just did 516 00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:21,200 Speaker 2: that last night. Like this thing that you just said to, 517 00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:23,440 Speaker 2: for example, the women in the room you gotta be careful, 518 00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:27,640 Speaker 2: is like you just did that. And so yes, it's 519 00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:30,680 Speaker 2: just because we have written about these things doesn't mean 520 00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:35,280 Speaker 2: we always know exactly what the heck we're doing. So 521 00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:40,520 Speaker 2: you talked about hoarding worthlessness, and I think you hit 522 00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:42,720 Speaker 2: a couple of us square between the eyes when you 523 00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:44,600 Speaker 2: said you may not think of yourself as doing that, 524 00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:49,840 Speaker 2: but are you a people pleaser? Like? Ah? Okay, So 525 00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:55,920 Speaker 2: moving on, we talked about worry. You mentioned anger a 526 00:31:55,960 --> 00:32:00,600 Speaker 2: little bit. Give us another topic. Do one of the 527 00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:03,240 Speaker 2: other topics in the book, take us through one of 528 00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:07,960 Speaker 2: the others that people might see themselves in a lot. 529 00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:11,200 Speaker 1: Of these we use even the language of holding on. 530 00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:16,200 Speaker 1: You know, we hold on to grudges. We live buried 531 00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:19,720 Speaker 1: by regret, buried under a mountain of regret. I might 532 00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:23,800 Speaker 1: pick on regret for a minute. I was wondering, because yeah, 533 00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:28,000 Speaker 1: I think as we especially as we age, we just 534 00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:32,080 Speaker 1: have more behind us. Right, So there's there's more sinful 535 00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:35,080 Speaker 1: choices in the rear view mirror. Hopefully fewer as we, 536 00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:38,600 Speaker 1: you know, begin to walk more closely with the Lord. 537 00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:41,600 Speaker 1: But all of us have kind of stuff in our 538 00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:45,080 Speaker 1: rear view mirror that we just cringe at. We wouldn't 539 00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:49,400 Speaker 1: want anybody to play those things on a giant screen. 540 00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:54,120 Speaker 1: You know, things we're ashamed of or or you know, 541 00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:57,160 Speaker 1: in my in my chapter on regret, there's kind of 542 00:32:57,160 --> 00:32:58,760 Speaker 1: a fork in the road right out of the Choote, 543 00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:04,000 Speaker 1: and it is did I sin? If the answers yes, 544 00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:08,120 Speaker 1: Scripture offers a really clean cut way out of that 545 00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:11,760 Speaker 1: through of all people, the apostle Paul, who could have 546 00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:16,320 Speaker 1: lived his life in utter regret had he not sort 547 00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:18,840 Speaker 1: of grabbed the agency that was before him and let 548 00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:21,840 Speaker 1: the Holy Spirit do the great work of grace in him. 549 00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:24,840 Speaker 1: The thing I might talk about here to answer your 550 00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:28,200 Speaker 1: question specifically, is I spent a great deal of the 551 00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:32,360 Speaker 1: chapter on but what if I didn't sin? What if 552 00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:35,920 Speaker 1: it's just regret born from you know, why didn't I 553 00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:40,440 Speaker 1: ever get that master's degree? Or why didn't I go 554 00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:44,120 Speaker 1: seek counseling sooner? Or why didn't I play with my 555 00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:47,400 Speaker 1: kid more when he was little. So those kinds of 556 00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:52,560 Speaker 1: regrets I learned in researching the book are actually they 557 00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:57,640 Speaker 1: dog us longer. They're harder to resolve, because one of 558 00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:02,240 Speaker 1: the therapists I interviewed said, it's like trying to fix a ghost. 559 00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:07,600 Speaker 1: It's not like so a regret born from sin. We 560 00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:12,840 Speaker 1: can kind of address that, you know, we can confess 561 00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:16,640 Speaker 1: and repent and make it right with the person we've injured, 562 00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:20,279 Speaker 1: but a regret born from just I wish things would 563 00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:23,399 Speaker 1: have gone differently or life didn't turn out the way 564 00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:26,080 Speaker 1: I thought it was going to. And I bet there 565 00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:29,320 Speaker 1: are a few listeners right now, maybe even with tears 566 00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:32,560 Speaker 1: welling up, because for many of us, this thing doesn't 567 00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:35,759 Speaker 1: go like we thought it was going to go. So 568 00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:40,400 Speaker 1: what do you do with that? And what I found 569 00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:47,680 Speaker 1: is that grace is the great anecdote for our regrets 570 00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:51,320 Speaker 1: really born from sin and non sin, but in the 571 00:34:52,200 --> 00:34:55,840 Speaker 1: kind of fixing a ghost category, boy, grace can swoop 572 00:34:55,840 --> 00:35:01,000 Speaker 1: in and do its big bold work in our lives. 573 00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:05,360 Speaker 2: So like giving ourselves grace and accepting God's grace. 574 00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:09,719 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a great observation, because we can't if we 575 00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:14,279 Speaker 1: don't if we don't know grace in our bones, we 576 00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:17,920 Speaker 1: can't grow in grace with others. So I think as 577 00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:24,040 Speaker 1: it relates to regret, for example, I think just understanding 578 00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:27,160 Speaker 1: that that grace fills that huge gap between this is 579 00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:30,239 Speaker 1: what I wanted or would have wanted, this is what 580 00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:34,120 Speaker 1: it is. And when we look at how grace kind 581 00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:37,160 Speaker 1: of sweeps in and fills that gap and drives us 582 00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:45,640 Speaker 1: to our need and recognition for really for Jesus, it's 583 00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:50,520 Speaker 1: a really beautiful I loved that chapter administered to me personally, Yeah. 584 00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:57,440 Speaker 2: Me too, well, And it is another example of what 585 00:35:57,520 --> 00:35:59,640 Speaker 2: you talk about with all of them, which is that 586 00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:04,560 Speaker 2: there's something that there's a reason you're holding onto it like, 587 00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:07,279 Speaker 2: and that may be one of those that if I 588 00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:10,279 Speaker 2: just hold onto this enough, I won't I won't not 589 00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:13,480 Speaker 2: play with my kid again. But yeah, you know I don't. 590 00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:15,280 Speaker 1: I'll be better with my grand I'll be better. 591 00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:19,840 Speaker 2: With my grandkids, right exactly, even though that's just completely false, 592 00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:22,120 Speaker 2: Like we don't need to hold on to that for 593 00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:22,920 Speaker 2: that to be true. 594 00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:26,800 Speaker 1: You know, I might take the role of interviewer away 595 00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:28,960 Speaker 1: from you for a sec and kind of flip a 596 00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:31,839 Speaker 1: question over to you because it occurs to me like 597 00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:35,359 Speaker 1: this just came to me that if we're buried by regret, 598 00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:38,880 Speaker 1: that means we're spending an awful lot of time looking 599 00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:44,160 Speaker 1: back and also probably feeling some level of ick about it, 600 00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:49,360 Speaker 1: whether it's remorse, whether it's you know, I just beating 601 00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:52,759 Speaker 1: ourselves up, negative self talk, all that stuff. I think 602 00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:56,920 Speaker 1: that can well, I know it can really hurt our relationships. 603 00:36:57,360 --> 00:36:59,200 Speaker 1: So much of the work you've done over the years 604 00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:02,000 Speaker 1: really The target is. 605 00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:04,560 Speaker 2: Relationships. 606 00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:09,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, relationships, more gratitude, leaning toward the other person with 607 00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:13,040 Speaker 1: generosity and benefit of the doubt. Look, if we can't 608 00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:15,200 Speaker 1: that's what we're talking about here. If we can't even 609 00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:19,000 Speaker 1: do that for ourselves, if we can't believe the Lord 610 00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:23,719 Speaker 1: when he says, my grace is sufficient for you, if 611 00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:26,680 Speaker 1: we don't have that locked down and settled in our 612 00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:30,360 Speaker 1: own hearts, how can we possibly extend that kind of 613 00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:34,160 Speaker 1: generosity toward our spouse, toward our kids. I'd love to 614 00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:35,160 Speaker 1: hear your thoughts on that. 615 00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:38,120 Speaker 2: Actually, well, I mean I think you know what my 616 00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:40,480 Speaker 2: thoughts are on that, which is that if you're locked 617 00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:42,799 Speaker 2: up with that, there is no way really. I mean, 618 00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:46,360 Speaker 2: I guess you can into some degree, but it's definitely 619 00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:49,239 Speaker 2: not going to be out of a place of freedom, right, 620 00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:53,040 Speaker 2: It's definitely it's it's going to be probably to assuade 621 00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:57,080 Speaker 2: your false guilt for example, right, Like it's those it's 622 00:37:57,080 --> 00:37:59,920 Speaker 2: that like that people pleasing stuff that we were talking about, 623 00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:09,440 Speaker 2: Because if I am hoarding any of these things, really 624 00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:12,560 Speaker 2: it's not just regret, it's any of these things. If 625 00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:17,120 Speaker 2: I am kind of relying on them for something, I'm 626 00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:21,840 Speaker 2: definitely not relying on God right, I'm definitely not in 627 00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:25,800 Speaker 2: a place where I can be a source of life 628 00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:29,560 Speaker 2: for someone else to the degree that I'm supposed to be. Now, obviously, 629 00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:32,799 Speaker 2: God can use any of and does use all of 630 00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:38,239 Speaker 2: us every day, even when we're hoarding stuff. Otherwise, you know, 631 00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:40,319 Speaker 2: we would all just slink away and ghost it in 632 00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:44,959 Speaker 2: our little caves individually, because we're all imperfect in this way. 633 00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:51,759 Speaker 2: But our goal what Jesus said in John ten ten 634 00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:53,680 Speaker 2: when he was talking, he was talking about how the 635 00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:58,400 Speaker 2: enemy wants to steal and kill and destroy. He wants 636 00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:02,960 Speaker 2: to make us believe the lie. Right, he wants us 637 00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:06,680 Speaker 2: to not have an abundant life. When Jesus says, but 638 00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:10,279 Speaker 2: I have come so that you may have life, and 639 00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:15,839 Speaker 2: you may have it more abundantly. One of the reasons 640 00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:18,880 Speaker 2: for that is well, because he wants us to have 641 00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:22,040 Speaker 2: an abundant life for our own joy. But he also 642 00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:25,799 Speaker 2: is very clear that one of the other reasons is 643 00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:28,440 Speaker 2: so that we are the ones who can pour life 644 00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:32,200 Speaker 2: into others. Right for the people who are stuck, the 645 00:39:32,239 --> 00:39:35,520 Speaker 2: people who are in their closet with their stuff and 646 00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:38,000 Speaker 2: don't know how to get out of it. And so 647 00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:42,359 Speaker 2: to me, that's one of the main like sort of 648 00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:47,480 Speaker 2: transcendent purposes behind your book. It's for us to really 649 00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:49,600 Speaker 2: be able to get some freedom, but not just so 650 00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:51,120 Speaker 2: that we have a happier life. 651 00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:55,960 Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, that would utterly miss the point, you know 652 00:39:56,080 --> 00:40:02,799 Speaker 1: that it freedom's the target, and the ancillary benefits of 653 00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:06,279 Speaker 1: that are innumerable. I mean, one of my whole one 654 00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:09,600 Speaker 1: of my chapters was devoted to dread, which is around 655 00:40:09,640 --> 00:40:12,480 Speaker 1: this idea of kind of the dread from keeping secrets. 656 00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:15,040 Speaker 1: You've talked a lot about that, like if we're keeping 657 00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:19,160 Speaker 1: money on the side, if we're keeping secrets from our spouse, 658 00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:22,960 Speaker 1: you know, kind of that just doesn't end well, it 659 00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:25,520 Speaker 1: doesn't go to a good place. So we're talking about 660 00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:30,560 Speaker 1: marriage relationships here, but let's talk about the most important relationship, 661 00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:36,080 Speaker 1: our relationship with God. You know. I think the thing 662 00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:40,120 Speaker 1: I hope my reader's most experience in the journey of 663 00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:45,200 Speaker 1: these pages is freedom so that they can get this 664 00:40:45,360 --> 00:40:50,279 Speaker 1: relationship unclogged and beautiful and victorious and pure and all 665 00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:52,279 Speaker 1: the things that God wants it to be, so that 666 00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:56,839 Speaker 1: then He can unleash us to go be his hands 667 00:40:56,880 --> 00:41:00,640 Speaker 1: and feet in a hurting world, which, if you've looked 668 00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:03,440 Speaker 1: at one headline lately we need it, that's you know, 669 00:41:04,120 --> 00:41:07,799 Speaker 1: and then certainly in our homes with our spouses, with 670 00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:11,360 Speaker 1: our kids. Yeah, you made a good point, you know. 671 00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:14,400 Speaker 1: I don't want readers to fear picking this up. I 672 00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:16,200 Speaker 1: don't want them to think this is they're going to 673 00:41:16,239 --> 00:41:20,719 Speaker 1: get beaten up, because they're not. It's the most tender journey, 674 00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:24,120 Speaker 1: and I think there's some laughter in it. I mean 675 00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:26,400 Speaker 1: I laugh about I don't worry. 676 00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:28,560 Speaker 2: This is one of the things I love about Laurie 677 00:41:28,680 --> 00:41:30,640 Speaker 2: is that she just I don't know how she manages 678 00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:34,239 Speaker 2: to make serious things funny, but she does. So. 679 00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:37,440 Speaker 1: No, it is well, we have to we have to 680 00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:41,120 Speaker 1: laugh in a book like emotional hoarding. I mean, we 681 00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:43,640 Speaker 1: don't hoard the good emotions. We find twenty bucks in 682 00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:46,600 Speaker 1: our jeans and we just express joy. 683 00:41:46,719 --> 00:41:48,640 Speaker 2: Yes, yes, we don't hoard that. 684 00:41:49,120 --> 00:41:51,719 Speaker 1: So in a book that's looking at hard things that 685 00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:54,799 Speaker 1: we hoard, I had to stop and laugh, like I 686 00:41:55,000 --> 00:42:00,279 Speaker 1: needed periodic breaks. So it's not a big, hard, heavy journey. 687 00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:01,680 Speaker 1: I think it's that's sweetest. 688 00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:05,279 Speaker 2: It's a very sweet journey. It's very fun and very 689 00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:10,680 Speaker 2: like it's very helpful. I know we're getting to the 690 00:42:10,719 --> 00:42:13,960 Speaker 2: point where we need to start wrapping up. But I 691 00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:16,640 Speaker 2: would love One of the things that we love doing 692 00:42:16,640 --> 00:42:19,520 Speaker 2: on the podcast, and one of the reasons why we 693 00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:21,520 Speaker 2: called it, I wish you could hear this is that 694 00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:25,520 Speaker 2: we hear stories upon stories upon stories. I'm like, everybody 695 00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:30,120 Speaker 2: needs to hear this story. And I know that there's 696 00:42:30,160 --> 00:42:35,400 Speaker 2: a story that you often share from the book that 697 00:42:35,600 --> 00:42:41,280 Speaker 2: helps sort of bring home a principle that sort of sticks, 698 00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:45,200 Speaker 2: helps us stick in the in the minds of everybody 699 00:42:45,320 --> 00:42:46,080 Speaker 2: listening to this. 700 00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:49,080 Speaker 1: You know, grace is something we talk about a lot, 701 00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:53,719 Speaker 1: but what is it really Jesus never used the word. 702 00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:57,480 Speaker 1: We don't have a first Corinthians thirteen, like grace is this? 703 00:42:57,719 --> 00:43:00,560 Speaker 1: Grace is that kind of verse. I'd love to just 704 00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:05,160 Speaker 1: share quickly a story that brings home grace in a 705 00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:07,759 Speaker 1: really powerful way for me at my free readers too. 706 00:43:08,280 --> 00:43:11,040 Speaker 1: So when I was I've been in publishing in some 707 00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:13,920 Speaker 1: way or another my whole career, and when I was 708 00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:17,879 Speaker 1: a really young assistant editor on a magazine. I think 709 00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:23,880 Speaker 1: I was twenty four, So I was young and broke, 710 00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:26,640 Speaker 1: straight out of college, living in a big city. I 711 00:43:26,680 --> 00:43:30,200 Speaker 1: had just moved to Phoenix, and I'm working at this 712 00:43:30,400 --> 00:43:35,160 Speaker 1: publishing company and I made an error, an editing error 713 00:43:35,160 --> 00:43:40,480 Speaker 1: that literally required stopping the presses, which is a really 714 00:43:40,600 --> 00:43:44,440 Speaker 1: costly thing to do now we do so much digitally. 715 00:43:44,520 --> 00:43:47,840 Speaker 1: But there was ink and paper and color correction and 716 00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:50,560 Speaker 1: all that stuff, and I made this error. I think 717 00:43:50,600 --> 00:43:54,359 Speaker 1: it was like sixteen thousand dollars in nineteen ninety. 718 00:43:54,680 --> 00:43:58,520 Speaker 2: So we were talking easily sixty eighty thousand dollars. 719 00:43:58,840 --> 00:44:01,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it was the kind of mistake that 720 00:44:01,239 --> 00:44:04,080 Speaker 1: you get fired for. So I took a box with 721 00:44:04,239 --> 00:44:05,840 Speaker 1: me to work the next day. I knew I was 722 00:44:05,880 --> 00:44:09,040 Speaker 1: going to get fired, and Shanty, I was so broke 723 00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:12,359 Speaker 1: that I was just hoping they would fire me afternoon 724 00:44:13,120 --> 00:44:18,279 Speaker 1: so that I could get paid for that day. So 725 00:44:18,600 --> 00:44:20,239 Speaker 1: all day I just sort of had this. You know 726 00:44:20,280 --> 00:44:23,440 Speaker 1: how you can tell when someone's in your workspace, someone's 727 00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:26,120 Speaker 1: behind you. So sure enough, right around the noon hour, 728 00:44:27,160 --> 00:44:31,040 Speaker 1: there's a shadow behind me, and I fully expected it 729 00:44:31,040 --> 00:44:33,319 Speaker 1: to be my boss with a pink slip, and that 730 00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:35,799 Speaker 1: was going to be that. And it was the publisher 731 00:44:37,080 --> 00:44:40,239 Speaker 1: of the company. I want to say, we published like 732 00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:45,919 Speaker 1: twenty five magazines. It was a big publisher. And he's 733 00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:49,719 Speaker 1: standing there and I worked in this cube farm, so 734 00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:53,719 Speaker 1: there's you know, twenty people easily within earshot if the 735 00:44:53,719 --> 00:44:57,560 Speaker 1: conversation gets loud. So I'm really trying to be quiet 736 00:44:57,640 --> 00:45:00,440 Speaker 1: and tell him I'm so sorry, and and I know 737 00:45:00,560 --> 00:45:06,040 Speaker 1: he I can't pay him back that dollar amount, you know. 738 00:45:06,120 --> 00:45:09,000 Speaker 1: And finally I said, I know you're going to need 739 00:45:09,000 --> 00:45:11,680 Speaker 1: to fire me, so I'll go to HR and do whatever. 740 00:45:11,880 --> 00:45:17,040 Speaker 1: And he boomed, in the loudest possible voice, fire you. 741 00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:20,800 Speaker 1: So now the corporate cube farm is snapped to attention. 742 00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:27,240 Speaker 1: Fire you. I just put sixteen thousand dollars of training 743 00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:32,440 Speaker 1: into you, like you're the most trained employee on my 744 00:45:32,600 --> 00:45:38,160 Speaker 1: staff today. And gosh, this story still gets me so 745 00:45:38,239 --> 00:45:42,160 Speaker 1: many years later, because I needed that job. I really 746 00:45:42,239 --> 00:45:49,440 Speaker 1: needed that job. So he then did the unexplainable. He 747 00:45:49,719 --> 00:45:52,719 Speaker 1: asked if he could use my desk phone, which gen 748 00:45:52,840 --> 00:45:55,919 Speaker 1: z Ors just look that up. And I pushed back 749 00:45:55,920 --> 00:46:00,239 Speaker 1: from my desk, and he called his executive assistant and said, 750 00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:03,400 Speaker 1: I cancel my one o'clock I'm taking a VIP to lunch. 751 00:46:05,040 --> 00:46:08,640 Speaker 1: So he, you know, offered his arm and I took 752 00:46:08,680 --> 00:46:11,880 Speaker 1: his arm and he marched me through that campus and 753 00:46:11,960 --> 00:46:16,680 Speaker 1: took me to lunch at a restaurant that had white tablecloths. 754 00:46:17,760 --> 00:46:22,560 Speaker 1: It was just the fanciest place I had ever dined in. 755 00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:29,320 Speaker 1: And so that, to me, demonstrates the kind of grace 756 00:46:30,600 --> 00:46:33,200 Speaker 1: that God shows us. Grace to me looks like a 757 00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:37,800 Speaker 1: white tablecloth because it was so far beyond what I deserved. 758 00:46:37,840 --> 00:46:41,160 Speaker 1: I deserved to be fired and instead I got lunch 759 00:46:42,640 --> 00:46:45,080 Speaker 1: at a fancy restaurant with white tablecloths. 760 00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:50,279 Speaker 2: Yeah. So, yeah, that's a beautiful example. I could talk 761 00:46:50,320 --> 00:46:54,040 Speaker 2: to you all day, Lorie, listen, but I know we're 762 00:46:54,080 --> 00:46:58,200 Speaker 2: out of time. And one of the things we always 763 00:46:58,200 --> 00:47:01,239 Speaker 2: want to do when we're wrapping up, and this is 764 00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:04,520 Speaker 2: a common thing that our listeners are aware of, is 765 00:47:04,680 --> 00:47:08,000 Speaker 2: we want to leave our listeners with one big takeaway. 766 00:47:08,080 --> 00:47:11,319 Speaker 2: We've talked about a bunch of things. And as you 767 00:47:11,400 --> 00:47:15,000 Speaker 2: think about everything we've talked about, and your heart for 768 00:47:15,360 --> 00:47:20,560 Speaker 2: all of our listeners here and your potential readers, what 769 00:47:20,680 --> 00:47:22,879 Speaker 2: do you most want them to know? Like, if they 770 00:47:22,920 --> 00:47:25,759 Speaker 2: remember one thing, if they think about one thing, what 771 00:47:25,800 --> 00:47:27,480 Speaker 2: do you most want them to take away? 772 00:47:27,920 --> 00:47:31,840 Speaker 1: Yeah? I most want them to take away, and myself 773 00:47:31,880 --> 00:47:36,000 Speaker 1: too and you and all of us that we'll know 774 00:47:36,080 --> 00:47:39,719 Speaker 1: we can be free. I'd love your listeners to know that. 775 00:47:40,360 --> 00:47:43,440 Speaker 1: And actually Jesus wants you to know, it's it's sort 776 00:47:43,480 --> 00:47:47,880 Speaker 1: of freedom that he set you free. I love the 777 00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:51,600 Speaker 1: redundancy in that, you know he really wants us to 778 00:47:51,640 --> 00:47:55,960 Speaker 1: get it. Shanta, you mentioned John ten ten earlier. You 779 00:47:56,000 --> 00:47:57,839 Speaker 1: know that he came so we could have life and 780 00:47:57,920 --> 00:48:01,920 Speaker 1: have it to the full that is available to us. 781 00:48:01,960 --> 00:48:04,759 Speaker 1: That's why he came. And it's a freedom life and 782 00:48:04,800 --> 00:48:10,080 Speaker 1: it's ours for the taking. So if we're bound up 783 00:48:10,560 --> 00:48:15,000 Speaker 1: by grudges and bitterness and anger and false gill and 784 00:48:15,200 --> 00:48:18,600 Speaker 1: worry ride yeah yeah, worry all of it, Well, that 785 00:48:18,760 --> 00:48:21,320 Speaker 1: starts to sound like a life of bondage, not freedom. 786 00:48:21,760 --> 00:48:22,240 Speaker 2: Yeah. 787 00:48:22,440 --> 00:48:24,239 Speaker 1: So he came so we could have a better way 788 00:48:24,480 --> 00:48:27,720 Speaker 1: and it's available to us. He doesn't hide the ball, 789 00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:30,200 Speaker 1: you know, he shows us a path. I love that 790 00:48:30,400 --> 00:48:31,080 Speaker 1: toward freedom. 791 00:48:31,920 --> 00:48:35,960 Speaker 2: I love that. I so Lorii, I just have to 792 00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:38,520 Speaker 2: say thanks to Lori Davies for coming on the show 793 00:48:38,520 --> 00:48:43,160 Speaker 2: today and being willing to share your perspective. I want 794 00:48:43,200 --> 00:48:46,319 Speaker 2: to tell our listeners that Moody Publishers is actually going 795 00:48:46,360 --> 00:48:50,160 Speaker 2: to give away three copies of Emotional Hoarding, So keep 796 00:48:50,200 --> 00:48:53,080 Speaker 2: an eye on our social media right after this episode drops, 797 00:48:53,120 --> 00:48:56,440 Speaker 2: you'll see an opportunity to get one of those free 798 00:48:56,480 --> 00:49:01,399 Speaker 2: copies shortly, and I'm going to urge everybody. I've known 799 00:49:01,440 --> 00:49:04,080 Speaker 2: Laurie for a long time, you need to know she 800 00:49:04,280 --> 00:49:07,719 Speaker 2: is the real deal. This insight that you've heard from 801 00:49:07,800 --> 00:49:10,440 Speaker 2: her is throughout the pages of the book, and it 802 00:49:10,560 --> 00:49:14,160 Speaker 2: really truly is one that I would encourage you all 803 00:49:14,200 --> 00:49:19,360 Speaker 2: to look at. If you know someone who would benefit 804 00:49:19,400 --> 00:49:22,480 Speaker 2: from this conversation, who would benefit from listening to this, 805 00:49:23,000 --> 00:49:26,560 Speaker 2: please share today's episode with them and tag us on 806 00:49:26,680 --> 00:49:29,640 Speaker 2: all your social media channels, and we would urge you 807 00:49:29,680 --> 00:49:32,759 Speaker 2: to subscribe to our podcast. Thanks for joining us, LORI, 808 00:49:34,560 --> 00:49:37,000 Speaker 2: thanks for listening to I wish you could hear this. 809 00:49:37,440 --> 00:49:41,160 Speaker 2: Remember to subscribe to our podcast, and as always, forward 810 00:49:41,200 --> 00:49:44,440 Speaker 2: today's audio or video link to a friend, counselor, or 811 00:49:44,480 --> 00:49:50,680 Speaker 2: pastor who would be encouraged. I just want to take 812 00:49:50,719 --> 00:49:53,440 Speaker 2: a second to thank the team at Life Audio for 813 00:49:53,520 --> 00:49:56,560 Speaker 2: their partnership with us on the podcast. If you go 814 00:49:56,680 --> 00:49:59,839 Speaker 2: to lifeaudio dot com, you will find dozens of other 815 00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:03,920 Speaker 2: FITH centered podcasts in their network. They've got shows about prayer, 816 00:50:04,200 --> 00:50:06,480 Speaker 2: Bible study, parenting, and more.