1 00:00:02,680 --> 00:00:09,240 Speaker 1: Life Audio. Welcome to the Love Offering Podcast. I'm your host, 2 00:00:09,360 --> 00:00:11,880 Speaker 1: Rachel Adams, author of Everyday Prayers for Love, Learning to 3 00:00:11,880 --> 00:00:14,840 Speaker 1: Love God, others, and even yourself. Each week we dive 4 00:00:14,880 --> 00:00:17,880 Speaker 1: into meaningful conversations about how to live out the greatest commandment, 5 00:00:18,160 --> 00:00:20,400 Speaker 1: living God with all of our heart's soul, mind and strength, 6 00:00:20,400 --> 00:00:23,840 Speaker 1: and loving our neighbors as ourselves, whether through inspiring stories, 7 00:00:23,840 --> 00:00:27,080 Speaker 1: practical wisdom, or bibical truth. My hope is to encourage 8 00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:30,160 Speaker 1: you to love boldly, live faithfully, and reflect God's love 9 00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:32,640 Speaker 1: in your everyday life. Today, I am honored to welcome 10 00:00:32,680 --> 00:00:35,440 Speaker 1: Heather Levine to the show. Heather is a Christ Follower, 11 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:38,440 Speaker 1: nurse practitioner, author, and speaker with a heart for families 12 00:00:38,720 --> 00:00:42,440 Speaker 1: walking through infertility and pregnancy loss. After more than a 13 00:00:42,479 --> 00:00:46,519 Speaker 1: decade of infertility, multiple pregnancies, and heartbreaking losses, Heather encountered 14 00:00:46,560 --> 00:00:48,600 Speaker 1: God in a profound way through the stories of the 15 00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:52,360 Speaker 1: women in the Bible who also experienced infertility and deep longing. 16 00:00:52,720 --> 00:00:54,840 Speaker 1: Through those stories, she discovered that her own story was 17 00:00:54,840 --> 00:00:58,040 Speaker 1: not forgotten by God, but was being lovingly woven into 18 00:00:58,040 --> 00:01:01,360 Speaker 1: His greater story of redemption. Heather's new book is Barren, 19 00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:04,840 Speaker 1: a shared journey of infertility, loss, and faith. In it, 20 00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:07,400 Speaker 1: she weeps together the stories of women in Scripture who 21 00:01:07,440 --> 00:01:11,000 Speaker 1: wrestled with infertility, grief, and faith alongside her own deeply 22 00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:14,160 Speaker 1: personal journey. The book serves not only women who are 23 00:01:14,200 --> 00:01:16,880 Speaker 1: waiting and grieving, but also the friends, mothers, sisters, and 24 00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:20,720 Speaker 1: church communities who long to support them. Well. Through honesty, lament, 25 00:01:20,840 --> 00:01:23,480 Speaker 1: and hope, Heather create space for women to be seen, 26 00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:26,560 Speaker 1: to bring their pain before the Lord, and to remember 27 00:01:26,680 --> 00:01:30,440 Speaker 1: they are never forgotten by him. Well, Hello Heather, and 28 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:32,959 Speaker 1: welcome to the Love I Bring Podcast. I'm so happy 29 00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:35,080 Speaker 1: to have you. Thank you so much for having me. 30 00:01:35,319 --> 00:01:37,320 Speaker 1: It is such an honor to be here. Rachel. So 31 00:01:37,480 --> 00:01:40,000 Speaker 1: you and I met in person. We were at a conference, 32 00:01:40,160 --> 00:01:42,880 Speaker 1: and I'm not just telling you this. It was you 33 00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:45,199 Speaker 1: and I and another guest that I've had on the show, 34 00:01:45,319 --> 00:01:48,360 Speaker 1: Kara Seine, And so if you've not listened to Kara's episode, 35 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:49,720 Speaker 1: you need to go listen to that. But we just 36 00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:54,040 Speaker 1: had this divine appointment in a hallway, and you all 37 00:01:54,080 --> 00:01:57,040 Speaker 1: were my favorite encounters of that entire conference, it truly, 38 00:01:57,280 --> 00:01:59,200 Speaker 1: and we talked about this book, we talked about your 39 00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:01,880 Speaker 1: story and all the things I just love seeing that 40 00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:04,760 Speaker 1: dream come to a fruition and getting to talk to 41 00:02:04,880 --> 00:02:08,040 Speaker 1: you and share your story with everybody listening today. Oh 42 00:02:08,080 --> 00:02:08,800 Speaker 1: you're so kind. 43 00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:11,560 Speaker 2: I mean, it is really, you know, a god thing 44 00:02:11,680 --> 00:02:14,000 Speaker 2: that we had that I call it a magnetic moment 45 00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:16,680 Speaker 2: where you're just like in a space with somebody. You're like, 46 00:02:16,680 --> 00:02:19,200 Speaker 2: the Lord is moving here and I'm not sure what's happening, 47 00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:23,280 Speaker 2: but we should all pray. Yes bathroom, who knows, right, 48 00:02:23,320 --> 00:02:26,400 Speaker 2: But I think many of us have had that moment and. 49 00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:28,880 Speaker 1: You just kind of lean in, right Yeah. Yeah, there's 50 00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:31,880 Speaker 1: such hopeful expectation in that that you have no idea 51 00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:34,519 Speaker 1: where you are going to be when you're going to 52 00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:36,960 Speaker 1: have one of those encounters, but to truly start to 53 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:40,480 Speaker 1: see other people and have that expectation that God, what 54 00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:43,200 Speaker 1: are you going to do with this encounter with this person? 55 00:02:43,320 --> 00:02:45,800 Speaker 1: Because if we're open to it, there probably is going 56 00:02:45,880 --> 00:02:48,600 Speaker 1: to be a divine appointment all the time, throughout every 57 00:02:48,639 --> 00:02:50,720 Speaker 1: single day of our lives. Right, Yeah, we just have 58 00:02:50,760 --> 00:02:53,760 Speaker 1: to be sensitive to it. Right. Yeah. Well, today is 59 00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:56,520 Speaker 1: a little bit of a tough conversation, but a hopeful 60 00:02:56,560 --> 00:02:59,640 Speaker 1: one too. But I'd love for you just to share 61 00:02:59,680 --> 00:03:03,600 Speaker 1: your story of your own infertility and loss. As we 62 00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:06,240 Speaker 1: kind of begin to set up the stage for this 63 00:03:06,320 --> 00:03:09,200 Speaker 1: new book. Sure, sure, so I'll keep it as brief 64 00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:11,160 Speaker 1: as I can, because it is, you know, one of 65 00:03:11,160 --> 00:03:14,600 Speaker 1: those long journeys that people experience with, you know, just 66 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:18,680 Speaker 1: a boatload of suffering and grief unfortunately, but I truly 67 00:03:18,680 --> 00:03:20,720 Speaker 1: believe the Lord brought me through that for just this 68 00:03:20,800 --> 00:03:23,600 Speaker 1: moment right to be able to serve his women as 69 00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:27,600 Speaker 1: they go through similar journeys. So we had about a 70 00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:33,200 Speaker 1: ten year wrestle with both primary infertility, so not being 71 00:03:33,240 --> 00:03:35,440 Speaker 1: able to have a baby four up to four years, 72 00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:39,440 Speaker 1: and then we had a couple, actually had my first pregnancy, 73 00:03:39,480 --> 00:03:42,160 Speaker 1: which was a high risk pregnancy. I had twins, and 74 00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:42,960 Speaker 1: then we went. 75 00:03:42,880 --> 00:03:46,600 Speaker 2: Through another season of secondary infertility, and through the process 76 00:03:46,600 --> 00:03:49,120 Speaker 2: of that, we discovered I had endometriosis, which was the 77 00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:51,480 Speaker 2: cause for all all the troubles that we were having. 78 00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:54,040 Speaker 2: But in that season of secondary and fertility, I started 79 00:03:54,600 --> 00:03:58,520 Speaker 2: losing babies, both through the help of science and some 80 00:03:58,760 --> 00:04:03,680 Speaker 2: naturally and unexpectedly, so having multiple miscarriages and really having 81 00:04:03,720 --> 00:04:08,720 Speaker 2: to walk out my theology in really deep suffering and 82 00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:12,240 Speaker 2: really discovering God in very different ways and walking in 83 00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:16,440 Speaker 2: the dark doing that right, And then after a long 84 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:19,480 Speaker 2: season of loss and breaks and just trying to seek 85 00:04:19,520 --> 00:04:22,120 Speaker 2: the Lord's will and then continuing to I had a 86 00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:25,719 Speaker 2: spontaneous pregnancy that I did not expect and also lost 87 00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:28,560 Speaker 2: that maybe we opted to go back to IVF. We 88 00:04:28,600 --> 00:04:30,840 Speaker 2: felt like the Lord was leading us for one more 89 00:04:31,839 --> 00:04:36,279 Speaker 2: season of possible fruitfulness, and we were able to on 90 00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:40,320 Speaker 2: our last embryo, we had my daughter Violet, And yeah, 91 00:04:40,520 --> 00:04:43,200 Speaker 2: that should be the end, right, but still in the 92 00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:48,279 Speaker 2: same season, right of still dealing with long term disease endometriosis. 93 00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:51,480 Speaker 2: And really, I think on this side of heaven, we're 94 00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:54,599 Speaker 2: always brieved parents, right. Any woman that you talk to 95 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:57,840 Speaker 2: that has lost a pregnancy, has lost a child, does 96 00:04:57,880 --> 00:05:00,359 Speaker 2: not forget. We are always breathed here. It's on the 97 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:02,680 Speaker 2: side of heaven until we get to see our little 98 00:05:02,680 --> 00:05:07,120 Speaker 2: ones when we meet the Lord. So yeah, yeah, well, 99 00:05:07,200 --> 00:05:10,000 Speaker 2: I can't wait to continue today's conversation, but we're going 100 00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:11,480 Speaker 2: to take a brief break to hear a word from 101 00:05:11,520 --> 00:05:13,599 Speaker 2: today's sponsor, and when we come back, we'll talk about 102 00:05:13,839 --> 00:05:16,800 Speaker 2: supporting women through infertility and how we can walk alongside 103 00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:21,440 Speaker 2: those experiencing deep loss. Welcome back, I'm talking with Hither 104 00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:24,960 Speaker 2: Levine about her book Baron a Shared Journey of Infertility, 105 00:05:25,080 --> 00:05:28,479 Speaker 2: loss and Faith, and in it you share that it 106 00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:30,719 Speaker 2: was through studying the stories of women in the Bible 107 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:34,080 Speaker 2: who also experienced infertility that your heart really began to heal. 108 00:05:34,200 --> 00:05:37,680 Speaker 2: There are so many examples in scripture of barren women, 109 00:05:37,760 --> 00:05:39,320 Speaker 2: so you can mention as many as you want, But 110 00:05:39,440 --> 00:05:43,159 Speaker 2: was there maybe a specific story that really ministered to you. Yeah, 111 00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:46,520 Speaker 2: I mean, in all honesty, it started out studying in Genesis, 112 00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:49,479 Speaker 2: and so I was actually pregnant with my daughter Violet. 113 00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:51,280 Speaker 2: Nobody knew at that point, was still in the very 114 00:05:51,320 --> 00:05:54,480 Speaker 2: early stages. Was nervous. But I'm just sitting here and 115 00:05:54,640 --> 00:05:56,960 Speaker 2: sitting for the Lord, my Bible open, and I'm like, 116 00:05:57,279 --> 00:05:58,240 Speaker 2: she is. 117 00:05:58,240 --> 00:05:59,920 Speaker 1: Me, I am Sarah. 118 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:03,120 Speaker 2: So many moments of her life and we know the 119 00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:06,719 Speaker 2: usual ones, right, we know Sarah, we know Rachel, we 120 00:06:06,760 --> 00:06:09,240 Speaker 2: know Hannah. But there's some unusual ones too that we 121 00:06:09,279 --> 00:06:11,919 Speaker 2: don't really know. You might not find in the pages 122 00:06:11,920 --> 00:06:14,760 Speaker 2: of your Bible without doing a deeper dive. And that's 123 00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:17,960 Speaker 2: really Samson's mother. Men Noah's wife is how she's referred 124 00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:21,280 Speaker 2: to the Shunamite woman, and Elizabeth is one I think 125 00:06:21,440 --> 00:06:23,560 Speaker 2: is a little bit more known, but Ruth is one 126 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:26,160 Speaker 2: that is not. Ruth was certainly looks to be that 127 00:06:26,200 --> 00:06:29,640 Speaker 2: she was infertile. So I just was just captured by 128 00:06:29,720 --> 00:06:33,160 Speaker 2: these women's lives because even though they're ancient stories, there 129 00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:36,360 Speaker 2: are real stories for us that we struggle with, whether 130 00:06:36,440 --> 00:06:39,320 Speaker 2: you're dealing with infertility or whether you're in the barren season. 131 00:06:39,839 --> 00:06:42,599 Speaker 2: That I think we as Christ followers, we have the 132 00:06:42,600 --> 00:06:45,080 Speaker 2: same themes in our lives as we're really walking through 133 00:06:45,080 --> 00:06:45,640 Speaker 2: the valley. 134 00:06:45,800 --> 00:06:48,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, this may sound like a strange question, but maybe 135 00:06:48,560 --> 00:06:51,680 Speaker 1: Spay's listening. That's like, what does baron even mean? That's 136 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:54,640 Speaker 1: not a word that we use frequently. Yeah, yeah, that's 137 00:06:54,640 --> 00:06:57,719 Speaker 1: a great that's a great point. So for utility's sake, 138 00:06:57,760 --> 00:07:00,520 Speaker 1: of course, if you're talking about from fertility, we're talking 139 00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:03,680 Speaker 1: about that you're infertile, right, And typically barrenness in the 140 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:06,440 Speaker 1: Bible was attributed to women, although we know in modern 141 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:09,360 Speaker 1: times today there can be causes that are associated with men. 142 00:07:09,640 --> 00:07:11,800 Speaker 1: But like, let's talk about on a generalized sense, what 143 00:07:11,840 --> 00:07:14,120 Speaker 1: does this mean as a Christ follower? What does it 144 00:07:14,160 --> 00:07:16,400 Speaker 1: mean to be in a barren season? So barren is 145 00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:20,680 Speaker 1: think about the desert, right, it's it's dry, is the 146 00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:22,280 Speaker 1: sun is beating on you. 147 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:24,920 Speaker 2: There is not a drop of water to be found, 148 00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:27,040 Speaker 2: and it feels very alone. 149 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:30,120 Speaker 1: It feels very isolating. It feels sometimes really quiet. 150 00:07:30,440 --> 00:07:33,240 Speaker 2: And so for us, you know, for somebody in a 151 00:07:33,280 --> 00:07:37,640 Speaker 2: barren season, maybe that looks like a dream that hasn't 152 00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:42,520 Speaker 2: really completely unfolded. Maybe it looks like more commonly unanswered 153 00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:46,080 Speaker 2: prayer for a long period of time. Maybe it looks 154 00:07:46,120 --> 00:07:51,240 Speaker 2: like being overseen, whether that's or overlooked, whether that's in 155 00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:53,240 Speaker 2: your job, whether that's in your place of work, or 156 00:07:53,280 --> 00:07:57,160 Speaker 2: whether that's at home, any of those things. Losing somebody 157 00:07:57,200 --> 00:08:00,480 Speaker 2: and just going through a prolonged season of long but 158 00:08:00,640 --> 00:08:03,440 Speaker 2: not feeling like you're seen or heard, those are all 159 00:08:03,640 --> 00:08:04,680 Speaker 2: bear and seasons. 160 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:06,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's why I wanted you to answer that question, 161 00:08:06,960 --> 00:08:09,320 Speaker 1: because I think we can all say we have been 162 00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:12,080 Speaker 1: in a barren season, and maybe somebody is in a 163 00:08:12,120 --> 00:08:15,280 Speaker 1: barren season right now. And you mentioned that in those 164 00:08:15,320 --> 00:08:19,600 Speaker 1: seasons it can feel really isolating, even within our church community. 165 00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:23,320 Speaker 1: So why do you think that infertility and pregnancy loss 166 00:08:23,400 --> 00:08:26,000 Speaker 1: is sometimes difficult for people to talk about. Well, I 167 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:28,240 Speaker 1: think just the nature of it. I think as we 168 00:08:28,520 --> 00:08:30,720 Speaker 1: kind of go on in the in the years, it 169 00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:32,760 Speaker 1: gets better. I think it's it's not as bad as 170 00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:36,559 Speaker 1: it was, but there's always been sort of a shameful understanding. 171 00:08:36,679 --> 00:08:39,320 Speaker 1: And unfortunately, you know, even though we I think we 172 00:08:39,440 --> 00:08:43,240 Speaker 1: have really progressed as society, there's still just that like 173 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:45,800 Speaker 1: tension of like I shouldn't ask about this. 174 00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:48,640 Speaker 2: This is very personal to you. This is very sensitive information. 175 00:08:49,400 --> 00:08:52,599 Speaker 2: And I think also it's something that's so visible. Some 176 00:08:53,360 --> 00:08:55,560 Speaker 2: things in our lives are really visible, and this is 177 00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:57,040 Speaker 2: something that you know are not visible. 178 00:08:57,120 --> 00:08:58,520 Speaker 1: This is something that is really visible. 179 00:08:58,679 --> 00:09:01,040 Speaker 2: Like we can probably tell you can probably look at 180 00:09:01,080 --> 00:09:03,720 Speaker 2: a couple and be like, you know, it's been a 181 00:09:03,720 --> 00:09:05,840 Speaker 2: long time, you know, it seems like they should have 182 00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:09,880 Speaker 2: children by now. We ask questions that are kind of cringey. 183 00:09:09,920 --> 00:09:12,360 Speaker 2: A lot, we ask things like how many kids do 184 00:09:12,360 --> 00:09:13,280 Speaker 2: you have in your family? 185 00:09:13,320 --> 00:09:14,439 Speaker 1: Will you have kids? 186 00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:17,200 Speaker 2: And I think it just makes it a lot more visible, 187 00:09:17,360 --> 00:09:19,800 Speaker 2: and it makes it kind of feel like a heavier 188 00:09:19,800 --> 00:09:20,520 Speaker 2: weight of shame. 189 00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:25,199 Speaker 1: Yeah, And so going back to maybe somebody that's listening 190 00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:28,920 Speaker 1: has not experienced what you have experienced, but I think 191 00:09:28,960 --> 00:09:32,720 Speaker 1: that we probably know someone who has. And so for friends, 192 00:09:32,760 --> 00:09:34,959 Speaker 1: family members, or church leaders who want to support a 193 00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:38,079 Speaker 1: woman walking through infertility or miscarriage. What are some ways 194 00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:41,640 Speaker 1: that we can love and care for her will? Yeah. 195 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:43,880 Speaker 2: I love talking about this because I think all of 196 00:09:43,920 --> 00:09:45,599 Speaker 2: us have been in a space where we're trying to 197 00:09:45,640 --> 00:09:48,600 Speaker 2: support somebody and you're just like, you know, I've never 198 00:09:48,679 --> 00:09:51,000 Speaker 2: been in a place like that. I don't I don't 199 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:52,320 Speaker 2: know what to do. I don't want I don't want 200 00:09:52,360 --> 00:09:53,840 Speaker 2: to see the wrong thing. Don't let me see the 201 00:09:53,840 --> 00:09:56,240 Speaker 2: wrong thing. Just like I talked about, I think first 202 00:09:56,320 --> 00:10:00,000 Speaker 2: and foremost, especially for the church and anybody who loves 203 00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:03,200 Speaker 2: this family, pray for them, Please pray for them, Please 204 00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:05,439 Speaker 2: intercede for them. I heard on the radio there's a 205 00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:07,240 Speaker 2: pastor that said that is the first thing that he 206 00:10:07,280 --> 00:10:09,880 Speaker 2: does when he finds out that there is a family 207 00:10:09,920 --> 00:10:12,520 Speaker 2: in his church body that is struggling, is he prays 208 00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:15,160 Speaker 2: for them right there in that moment. Because we don't 209 00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:17,720 Speaker 2: know where the Lord is on his timeline. We'd see 210 00:10:17,720 --> 00:10:19,959 Speaker 2: that throughout the Bible. We can see that with Rebecca, 211 00:10:20,040 --> 00:10:22,480 Speaker 2: Isaac prayed for her she got pregnant with twins. We 212 00:10:22,520 --> 00:10:25,080 Speaker 2: can see that with hand that even though Eli's prayer 213 00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:28,040 Speaker 2: for her was kind of like easy button. He just says, 214 00:10:28,080 --> 00:10:29,920 Speaker 2: whatever you asked for, made the Lord give it to her. 215 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:34,200 Speaker 2: She changed And it wasn't even pregnancy Rachel in that moment, 216 00:10:34,280 --> 00:10:37,240 Speaker 2: it was her countenance that changed. She needed somebody to 217 00:10:37,320 --> 00:10:40,600 Speaker 2: pray the peace that passes understanding into her. She needed 218 00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:43,000 Speaker 2: somebody to pray for an anchor of hope. 219 00:10:43,280 --> 00:10:43,439 Speaker 1: Right. 220 00:10:43,480 --> 00:10:44,880 Speaker 2: And so when we're praying, I don't want to make 221 00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:46,640 Speaker 2: the mistake of saying, oh, if you pray, you're going 222 00:10:46,720 --> 00:10:49,000 Speaker 2: to get a baby. A lot of us just honestly 223 00:10:49,080 --> 00:10:51,520 Speaker 2: need to be seen and need to be really well loved, 224 00:10:51,559 --> 00:10:54,320 Speaker 2: and he needs to experience hope in a really supernatural way. 225 00:10:54,720 --> 00:10:56,520 Speaker 2: And in praying for somebody in that moment you could 226 00:10:56,559 --> 00:10:59,720 Speaker 2: they can really receive that from you and really honestly 227 00:10:59,720 --> 00:11:02,480 Speaker 2: from the Lord. So first thing is pry. Second thing 228 00:11:02,520 --> 00:11:05,360 Speaker 2: would be don't just ask, Especially when we get into 229 00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:08,200 Speaker 2: like really deep grief. I know we're just tempted to say, 230 00:11:08,440 --> 00:11:09,120 Speaker 2: how can I help? 231 00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:10,079 Speaker 1: What can I do? Right? 232 00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:13,320 Speaker 2: And I'm sure we've all heard this, but like, let's 233 00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:15,559 Speaker 2: actually just do it. What is it that I can. 234 00:11:15,400 --> 00:11:18,520 Speaker 1: Do for you? You know, bring the coffee, drop off 235 00:11:18,559 --> 00:11:21,959 Speaker 1: the groceries, tell your friend, Hey, I'm going to come 236 00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:23,800 Speaker 1: by tomorrow and I'm going to pick up your to 237 00:11:23,880 --> 00:11:26,680 Speaker 1: do list and I'll take all your Amazon returns back, 238 00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:28,600 Speaker 1: and I'll go to the post office for you, and 239 00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:30,960 Speaker 1: I'll get that Kindergarten gift that you need to get. 240 00:11:31,160 --> 00:11:34,000 Speaker 1: Just tell them that you're going to actually show up 241 00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:34,520 Speaker 1: and do it. 242 00:11:34,600 --> 00:11:37,679 Speaker 2: That is everything, because it's depending on where they're at 243 00:11:37,679 --> 00:11:40,240 Speaker 2: in their journey, whether there's medical appointments things like that. 244 00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:42,720 Speaker 2: There's just not you know, enough time in the day 245 00:11:42,800 --> 00:11:44,600 Speaker 2: to get some of those things done, so that can 246 00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:48,720 Speaker 2: be incredibly helpful. Send a text, right send a long 247 00:11:48,760 --> 00:11:52,480 Speaker 2: handwritten note. Audio text is pretty awesome right now, and 248 00:11:52,559 --> 00:11:55,360 Speaker 2: so you can just record yourself you're just sending a 249 00:11:55,400 --> 00:11:59,040 Speaker 2: really loving message to your friend via audio. You can 250 00:11:59,080 --> 00:12:01,640 Speaker 2: mail a book. All of those things were honestly done 251 00:12:01,840 --> 00:12:04,640 Speaker 2: for me during my season. The third thing I would 252 00:12:04,679 --> 00:12:06,320 Speaker 2: say is presence. This one's hard. 253 00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:08,520 Speaker 1: This one's really hard because I kind of want to, 254 00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:11,959 Speaker 1: you know, alert your audience that this family, this woman 255 00:12:12,160 --> 00:12:14,360 Speaker 1: is really going to be going through the ringer. This 256 00:12:14,520 --> 00:12:19,400 Speaker 1: is cyclical grief, especially if they're going through treatments or 257 00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:21,959 Speaker 1: anything like that, and so it kind of gets really 258 00:12:22,040 --> 00:12:24,440 Speaker 1: tense and like, how how do I approach this? It 259 00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:26,640 Speaker 1: seems like she doesn't want to be approached, it seems 260 00:12:26,679 --> 00:12:30,520 Speaker 1: like they have it together. And depending on the personality, 261 00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:33,720 Speaker 1: you know, who you are in that relationship is really 262 00:12:33,760 --> 00:12:35,880 Speaker 1: going to designate how much you're going to be able 263 00:12:35,880 --> 00:12:37,960 Speaker 1: to enter in. But if I could encourage if you 264 00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:41,040 Speaker 1: are somebody that is an accountability partner, that is a 265 00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:43,240 Speaker 1: best friend, that is a mother in law, a friend, 266 00:12:43,240 --> 00:12:46,200 Speaker 1: a cousin very close, you can go from something as 267 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:48,480 Speaker 1: simple as saying, I'm thinking about you and I know 268 00:12:48,520 --> 00:12:50,600 Speaker 1: what you're going through, But I would encourage you to 269 00:12:50,720 --> 00:12:53,080 Speaker 1: ask the hard questions. When we're in the valley, we 270 00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:55,440 Speaker 1: need to be asked the hard questions because it's most 271 00:12:55,520 --> 00:12:59,120 Speaker 1: often there that we are wrestling deeply with who God is, 272 00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:02,320 Speaker 1: especially when we are missing out on the desires of 273 00:13:02,320 --> 00:13:05,800 Speaker 1: our hurts, when we feel like God is incredibly silent, 274 00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:09,240 Speaker 1: we are so prone to wander I know I am, 275 00:13:09,880 --> 00:13:13,440 Speaker 1: and so really not being afraid to ask the questions 276 00:13:13,559 --> 00:13:16,840 Speaker 1: of are you okay, and ask it again even after 277 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:19,800 Speaker 1: she says I am or I'm fine, because I guarantee 278 00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:22,080 Speaker 1: there's there's something in there that probably needs to be 279 00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:24,640 Speaker 1: brought out in a safe space. If she feels safe. 280 00:13:24,440 --> 00:13:27,559 Speaker 2: For you don't be don't be burdened by like, I 281 00:13:27,559 --> 00:13:30,000 Speaker 2: don't know what this is like, I've never walked through 282 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:32,240 Speaker 2: this before. I'm single. I don't know what to do 283 00:13:32,280 --> 00:13:34,319 Speaker 2: with my friend. I had a dear friend of mine 284 00:13:34,440 --> 00:13:37,640 Speaker 2: that went to swim lessons for me. My sons were 285 00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:39,680 Speaker 2: in swim lessons. They're twins, so they were in the water. 286 00:13:39,720 --> 00:13:41,640 Speaker 2: I couldn't be in the water because I just said surgery. 287 00:13:41,800 --> 00:13:43,680 Speaker 2: She's single. She got in the water with them, she 288 00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:45,760 Speaker 2: did swim lessons with them in the middle of January 289 00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:48,959 Speaker 2: in Michigan. You don't need to have walked this journey 290 00:13:49,080 --> 00:13:52,280 Speaker 2: to walk alongside. So don't be afraid to be the 291 00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:55,600 Speaker 2: friend that kind of pushes in, that leans in, that's 292 00:13:55,640 --> 00:13:58,640 Speaker 2: not afraid to ask the tough questions and to be there. 293 00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:01,640 Speaker 2: And then I think, if I can go give just 294 00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:04,880 Speaker 2: one more is just maybe just providing a space right 295 00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:07,640 Speaker 2: in that presence. So just being with her. If we 296 00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:10,240 Speaker 2: think about Job's friends before they kind of said the 297 00:14:10,280 --> 00:14:14,000 Speaker 2: bad thing or sat with him, they sat with him, right, 298 00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:16,080 Speaker 2: and so maybe that looks like sitting with her. Maybe 299 00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:18,920 Speaker 2: that looks like saying, hey, I'd like to go to 300 00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:21,480 Speaker 2: that appointment with you, to the lab to get your 301 00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:23,960 Speaker 2: blood work done. If that's okay, Could I drive you? 302 00:14:23,960 --> 00:14:27,040 Speaker 2: Could I sit with you for me too? That was 303 00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:29,920 Speaker 2: a friend's backyard in Chicago. We had our little hammock 304 00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:32,360 Speaker 2: set up and we would just lay in there and 305 00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:34,400 Speaker 2: she would just sit there and she would listen and 306 00:14:34,520 --> 00:14:38,000 Speaker 2: I would verbally process sometimes and then I'd fall asleep, 307 00:14:38,160 --> 00:14:41,680 Speaker 2: and she just provide a space for me to feel safe, 308 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:44,560 Speaker 2: to feel loved, and feel like I could be seen 309 00:14:44,640 --> 00:14:47,120 Speaker 2: and heard. So those are my I think I gave 310 00:14:47,120 --> 00:14:49,400 Speaker 2: you three or four there that I would recommend for 311 00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:52,520 Speaker 2: anybody that is really trying to figure out how to 312 00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:53,600 Speaker 2: best walk alongside. 313 00:14:53,680 --> 00:14:57,680 Speaker 1: Those are great recommendations and really, if I'm being honest, 314 00:14:57,840 --> 00:15:01,080 Speaker 1: not hard, we can all do one of those things 315 00:15:01,240 --> 00:15:04,760 Speaker 1: very doable. You know, something else in this journey, I imagine 316 00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:08,800 Speaker 1: is difficult as a couple. Let's talk about a marriage. 317 00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:10,760 Speaker 1: So what wisdom would you share with couples who are 318 00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:14,920 Speaker 1: navigating infertility or lost together. Yeah, it's it's tough. 319 00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:18,760 Speaker 2: And again, you know, are really getting into deeper seasons 320 00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:22,560 Speaker 2: of you know, whether that be just really intense emotions, 321 00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:26,640 Speaker 2: intense disagreements because that will absolutely happen, or if you 322 00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:30,080 Speaker 2: are in intense treatments or really dealing with getting into 323 00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:32,240 Speaker 2: the weeds of what does it look like to fillied 324 00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:34,600 Speaker 2: adoption papers or what you know, things like that, I 325 00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:37,040 Speaker 2: highly recommend a counselor. 326 00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:39,680 Speaker 1: I highly recommend a Christian counselor to walk alongside you. 327 00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:42,680 Speaker 2: This is by far the hardest thing that your marriage 328 00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:45,240 Speaker 2: will ever go through. I have friends of mine who 329 00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:47,840 Speaker 2: do a lot of work with couples, and we found 330 00:15:47,880 --> 00:15:50,880 Speaker 2: that they found that at the root of most divorces 331 00:15:51,160 --> 00:15:55,120 Speaker 2: is lost miscarriage, infertility. Many times, once we do the 332 00:15:55,160 --> 00:15:58,440 Speaker 2: digging under all the emotional thanks and troubles, we find 333 00:15:58,760 --> 00:16:02,320 Speaker 2: the root of a law or of impertility at the bottom. 334 00:16:02,320 --> 00:16:04,200 Speaker 1: I think it's like seventy five percent. Don't quote me 335 00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:04,560 Speaker 1: on that. 336 00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:07,560 Speaker 2: And so what I can advocate for you is you 337 00:16:07,680 --> 00:16:11,240 Speaker 2: have got to use every tool at your disposal to 338 00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:14,400 Speaker 2: keep the Lord at the center of your marriage, and 339 00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:17,280 Speaker 2: sometimes that means using professional help. That's something that we 340 00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:19,840 Speaker 2: certainly had to do at points of our marriage. And 341 00:16:19,880 --> 00:16:23,880 Speaker 2: then you know, praying together again, looking at our biblical stories, 342 00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:29,120 Speaker 2: Isaac prayed for Rebecca, he interceded for her and allowing 343 00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:31,720 Speaker 2: that to happen. And sometimes in your walk with the Lord. 344 00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:33,720 Speaker 2: As a couple, you might not feel like you can 345 00:16:33,760 --> 00:16:37,400 Speaker 2: pray anymore. Let someone else pray over you, Let someone 346 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:39,800 Speaker 2: else do the work, because again going back to we 347 00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:42,400 Speaker 2: never know when Heaven's going to open up, and the 348 00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:45,320 Speaker 2: Lord truly wants to give you peace, He truly wants 349 00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:47,760 Speaker 2: to give you hope, He truly wants to give you 350 00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:50,600 Speaker 2: his love, and so allowing somebody else to do that 351 00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:52,720 Speaker 2: for you when you just feel like you're at the 352 00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:55,040 Speaker 2: end of your rope and you don't have anything left. 353 00:16:55,280 --> 00:16:57,760 Speaker 1: I can't wait to continue today's conversation, but we're going 354 00:16:57,840 --> 00:16:59,520 Speaker 1: to take another brief break to hear a word from 355 00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:02,080 Speaker 1: today's and when we come back, we'll talk about finding 356 00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:04,639 Speaker 1: hope and learning to walk enjoy even when life feels 357 00:17:04,640 --> 00:17:08,960 Speaker 1: incredibly heavy. Welcome back. I'm talking with Heather Levine about 358 00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:12,479 Speaker 1: her book Barren, a Shared Journey of infertility, loss and 359 00:17:12,600 --> 00:17:15,320 Speaker 1: faith and hither. One of the beautiful threads in your 360 00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:18,040 Speaker 1: story is the account of the woman who touched Jesus's 361 00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:21,520 Speaker 1: robe and was healed. So how did that passage become 362 00:17:21,560 --> 00:17:25,880 Speaker 1: so meaningful to you personally? Yeah? This, this was why. 363 00:17:25,760 --> 00:17:29,040 Speaker 2: I'm here right Like her story even though it's not 364 00:17:29,119 --> 00:17:32,760 Speaker 2: in my book is something that emulates exactly why I 365 00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:33,679 Speaker 2: wrote the book. 366 00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:36,040 Speaker 1: So I'm that woman, right, We think about that woman. 367 00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:37,160 Speaker 1: She was bleeding. 368 00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:41,320 Speaker 2: She clearly had an underlying disorder that kept her from 369 00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:42,520 Speaker 2: living a regular life. 370 00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:45,480 Speaker 1: Her quality of life was completely, you know, in the dust. 371 00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:46,960 Speaker 1: She had nothing left to give. 372 00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:50,000 Speaker 2: She had visited every doctor, she had tried every medical 373 00:17:50,040 --> 00:17:52,640 Speaker 2: thing available to her, and it was not successful. 374 00:17:52,680 --> 00:17:54,400 Speaker 1: And so she said, I got to go to him. 375 00:17:54,680 --> 00:17:57,000 Speaker 1: He's the only one that can heal me. Right. 376 00:17:57,119 --> 00:17:59,439 Speaker 2: And I think, really, when we're fumbling in the dark, 377 00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:02,680 Speaker 2: when we are feeling like our prayers aren't answered, when 378 00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:06,000 Speaker 2: we are feeling like we're not seen, we're overlooked, we 379 00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:08,720 Speaker 2: are we aren't seen by the Lord, and we start 380 00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:12,840 Speaker 2: really honestly mischaracterizing him, we start thinking things about him. 381 00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:16,400 Speaker 2: We've got to actually turn towards him, because where else, right, 382 00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:19,280 Speaker 2: where else will I go? As Peter said, he's the 383 00:18:19,320 --> 00:18:21,760 Speaker 2: only one that can truly give healing. And she knew it, 384 00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:24,719 Speaker 2: and so she went to him, and she whatever happened, 385 00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:27,400 Speaker 2: she stumbled over somebody and she grabbed his robe, and 386 00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:29,040 Speaker 2: in that moment she was healed. 387 00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:29,679 Speaker 1: And he knew it. 388 00:18:29,840 --> 00:18:31,880 Speaker 2: And I think the beauty in this, and I think 389 00:18:31,880 --> 00:18:34,320 Speaker 2: this is the beauty in this for any person that 390 00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:37,439 Speaker 2: has a story to tell is Jesus could have said, okay, 391 00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:40,440 Speaker 2: like I healed somebody, He didn't make everybody that he 392 00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:43,600 Speaker 2: healed tell their story. He went out of his way 393 00:18:44,560 --> 00:18:47,000 Speaker 2: to find her to say, somebody touched me. And of 394 00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:49,480 Speaker 2: course the disciples are all like, come on, man, like 395 00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:52,280 Speaker 2: everybody's bumping into you. But he went out of his 396 00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:55,440 Speaker 2: way to find her, and he didn't just say okay, 397 00:18:55,520 --> 00:18:56,640 Speaker 2: be healed, walk off. 398 00:18:56,720 --> 00:18:59,800 Speaker 1: He said, what happened to you? Who touched me? He 399 00:18:59,800 --> 00:19:02,760 Speaker 1: made her tell her story because she could have moved 400 00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:05,639 Speaker 1: on healed and not have told anybody. But it was 401 00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:08,919 Speaker 1: in telling that she affected every single person in that 402 00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:10,920 Speaker 1: crowd that was there, and she got to share her 403 00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:15,520 Speaker 1: miracle which was powerful healing for her heart, but also 404 00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:18,320 Speaker 1: everybody else around her got to see as well. And 405 00:19:18,359 --> 00:19:21,240 Speaker 1: so my endpoint in this is we all have a 406 00:19:21,280 --> 00:19:23,680 Speaker 1: story to tell. We all have a story of healing 407 00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:26,040 Speaker 1: where the Lord has powerfully moved in us, and we 408 00:19:26,080 --> 00:19:28,560 Speaker 1: should be sharing it because we don't know who needs 409 00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:30,960 Speaker 1: to hear it. I'm just a menful today for the 410 00:19:31,119 --> 00:19:35,080 Speaker 1: person listening who feels maybe forgotten, unseen, or weary from waiting. 411 00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:37,359 Speaker 1: What words of encouragement would you offer her today? 412 00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:41,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, So I love the story of Hannah because I 413 00:19:41,080 --> 00:19:43,920 Speaker 2: think she's one that we all know and there's. 414 00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:45,280 Speaker 1: A lot of relatability in there. 415 00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:47,480 Speaker 2: So we look at her, right, we know that she 416 00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:50,639 Speaker 2: went to the temple with her husband Alcannah and then 417 00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:53,720 Speaker 2: the other wife, Penana, and she was provoked, right every 418 00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:57,240 Speaker 2: year she was provoked by penn Anda. Panana likely insulted her, 419 00:19:57,520 --> 00:20:00,520 Speaker 2: mocked her because she was barren. And while we might 420 00:20:00,560 --> 00:20:02,879 Speaker 2: not have people mocking us and teasing us, I think 421 00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:05,560 Speaker 2: the world provokes us to talk about this in my book. 422 00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:07,760 Speaker 2: You know, we might be in a barren season and 423 00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:10,040 Speaker 2: life just keeps on life, and like you just keep 424 00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:12,480 Speaker 2: getting hit by the world, and you're like, can the 425 00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:14,720 Speaker 2: world please stop for a second, because I'm trying to 426 00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:18,040 Speaker 2: carry this burden? Right, And what does Hannah do in 427 00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:18,600 Speaker 2: that moment? 428 00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:22,600 Speaker 1: She goes to the Lord. We see her go and 429 00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:25,679 Speaker 1: start pouring out her soul to the Lord. And so 430 00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:26,920 Speaker 1: we've cut to lament. 431 00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:29,520 Speaker 2: I think this is something that we I myself did 432 00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:31,639 Speaker 2: not do well in the beginning, but we've got to 433 00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:35,000 Speaker 2: really be honest with the Lord about what we're wrestling with, 434 00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:38,400 Speaker 2: and really under that, we're going to find a question 435 00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:41,880 Speaker 2: or really the devil and the doubt sitting on her shoulders, 436 00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:45,520 Speaker 2: saying is the Lord really good? Is he really all powerful? 437 00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:49,320 Speaker 2: Is he really in control of my circumstances? We see 438 00:20:49,359 --> 00:20:51,720 Speaker 2: her sort of do that, and unfortunately, in that moment, 439 00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:56,000 Speaker 2: Hannah gets misunderstood by Eli, who's like, lay off the wine, lady. 440 00:20:56,800 --> 00:20:59,280 Speaker 2: She's like, no, I'm pouring out my soul to the Lord. 441 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:02,280 Speaker 2: And then she allows him to pray over her. That's 442 00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:04,520 Speaker 2: kind of what we talked about before. She allows somebody 443 00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:08,040 Speaker 2: else to come into her circumstance, whatever his motivations, to 444 00:21:08,119 --> 00:21:11,440 Speaker 2: pray over her. So going to the Lord, letting somebody 445 00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:14,240 Speaker 2: else pray over you, and then she goes to worship. 446 00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:17,560 Speaker 1: Right, it's so beautiful and so whatever that is for you, 447 00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:20,480 Speaker 1: if you're in that barren season, I hope it's your church. 448 00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:23,080 Speaker 1: I hope it's your church body. But I certainly understand 449 00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:25,200 Speaker 1: in moments and different church arts and things like that, 450 00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:27,480 Speaker 1: it may not be. Maybe it's we go to creation. 451 00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:30,159 Speaker 1: Maybe it's like Abraham did, and we go out and 452 00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:32,560 Speaker 1: we look at the stars, and we say what you 453 00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:34,840 Speaker 1: promised in me is true and it's going to happen 454 00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:36,879 Speaker 1: because I can look to the stars and I know 455 00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:39,160 Speaker 1: that that's the same sky that Abraham looked at when 456 00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:41,640 Speaker 1: God was making his promises for a son to Abraham. 457 00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:47,400 Speaker 1: So absolutely find your place in creation and then submit. Right, 458 00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:50,040 Speaker 1: we see the beauty in Hannah. After she's given this 459 00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:53,199 Speaker 1: great gift of a son, she gives him back to 460 00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:57,159 Speaker 1: the Lord for service, and so again submitting our lives 461 00:21:57,200 --> 00:22:00,600 Speaker 1: back under the Lord, whether we're still on that barren 462 00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:03,160 Speaker 1: season or whether we've come out of it, but really 463 00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:06,720 Speaker 1: looking back to see, wow, you've done this in my life, 464 00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:10,080 Speaker 1: and now I give my life back into dependence to you. 465 00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:13,920 Speaker 2: And so something beautiful that I find with Hannah as 466 00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:16,720 Speaker 2: she says, you, Lord are worth to me more than 467 00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:17,480 Speaker 2: ten sons. 468 00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:22,520 Speaker 1: Now here's my only son. Right, So do bring that right, 469 00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:24,160 Speaker 1: bring that gift back to Lord. 470 00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:27,000 Speaker 2: Don't don't let those barren seasons go by without looking 471 00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:29,119 Speaker 2: back to say he did that, He did that in 472 00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:29,520 Speaker 2: my life. 473 00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:33,479 Speaker 1: It makes me so teary, so beautiful, Heather, So tell us, 474 00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:36,120 Speaker 1: is there a biblical concept of love that you think 475 00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:39,520 Speaker 1: applies to this topic today? There's so much, so much 476 00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:42,480 Speaker 1: biblical love in this when we think about it from 477 00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:47,920 Speaker 1: the perspective of God. I think, especially as is somebody struggling, 478 00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:51,480 Speaker 1: like we're so tempted to say he doesn't love me. 479 00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:54,119 Speaker 1: Clearly he doesn't love me because he's not giving me 480 00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:56,359 Speaker 1: what i've what I'm asking for, and this is a 481 00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:59,640 Speaker 1: good desire, This is something that is whatever we might 482 00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:01,920 Speaker 1: be asking for, it would be something good, and he's 483 00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:04,720 Speaker 1: giving me much smaller things. Why wouldn't he give me this? 484 00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:08,200 Speaker 1: If we look throughout the Bible, when we see huge 485 00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:12,080 Speaker 1: transformation happening, it always starts this way, where we have 486 00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:14,280 Speaker 1: a need and we have to go to Him and 487 00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:17,159 Speaker 1: we have to trust. Right, if we look at the 488 00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:20,600 Speaker 1: rootedness of barrenness, we look at Abraham and Sarah, we 489 00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:23,560 Speaker 1: look at Isaac and Jacob, we look at Rachel. Right, 490 00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:27,600 Speaker 1: this is the beginning of God's blessed people. He loved 491 00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:30,600 Speaker 1: them and it was rooted in barrenness. God chose to 492 00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:34,000 Speaker 1: grow their hearts towards Him before he grew their families. 493 00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:37,119 Speaker 2: And so in that season, just really thinking about his 494 00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:40,800 Speaker 2: love for us is really growing our hearts towards Him first, 495 00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:44,159 Speaker 2: and it is not meant to be a curse. He 496 00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:47,359 Speaker 2: is somebody that walks with us. He's a man of sorrows. 497 00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:50,480 Speaker 2: He's been through suffering. So just making sure that we 498 00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:52,520 Speaker 2: see him as a god of love and knowing that 499 00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:56,240 Speaker 2: we are his beloved and standing in that absolutely well, 500 00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:59,800 Speaker 2: tell us something you are loving right now? All right, 501 00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:01,840 Speaker 2: this is going to be funny, and this is gonna 502 00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:04,800 Speaker 2: go for your like your mom's of younger kids. 503 00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:08,040 Speaker 1: So my daughter, she is four years old, and she 504 00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:12,119 Speaker 1: has just learned how to unbuckle her car seat. Oh no, 505 00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:15,920 Speaker 1: this is this is both a love and I hate, 506 00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:16,800 Speaker 1: right because. 507 00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:20,119 Speaker 2: Have I like literally saved I think probably an hour 508 00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:23,280 Speaker 2: each day of buckling, unbuckling, going around the car, going 509 00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:26,480 Speaker 2: back around car, buckling unbuckling. But I also have to 510 00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:29,000 Speaker 2: deal with the fact that she can now climb all 511 00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:31,440 Speaker 2: over my car like a little raccoon and get any 512 00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:34,880 Speaker 2: snacks or any DVDs that she wants out at any job. 513 00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:39,040 Speaker 1: Oh that's funny. No, I remember those days. My brother 514 00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:41,960 Speaker 1: actually he just had a new baby, and so now 515 00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:45,080 Speaker 1: my kids are seventeen and fifteen. But now I'm like 516 00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:49,520 Speaker 1: getting to relive all those sweet little moments through my brother, curiously, 517 00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:52,760 Speaker 1: through them, there's nothing better like it. It can be hard, 518 00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:56,840 Speaker 1: but it's so so beautiful. Uh yeah, well, I know 519 00:24:56,920 --> 00:24:59,040 Speaker 1: I want to stay connected with you. I'm sure listeners 520 00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:00,560 Speaker 1: are going to want to They're going to want to 521 00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:02,560 Speaker 1: purchase a copy of this book. So tell us how 522 00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:04,600 Speaker 1: we could best do that. Yeah, so it. 523 00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:07,719 Speaker 2: Should be available on Amazon and anywhere where you can 524 00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:10,840 Speaker 2: buy a book. And then also if you would visit 525 00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:12,240 Speaker 2: my website you can get updates. 526 00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:15,120 Speaker 1: That's at how they're being authored. Okay, well we will 527 00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:18,119 Speaker 1: include that in the show notes. But would you just 528 00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:19,960 Speaker 1: do us the honor of praying for us as we 529 00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:24,120 Speaker 1: close today? Absolutely, Father, God, we just come before you, 530 00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:27,960 Speaker 1: and we recognize that you are a good, good God. 531 00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:31,520 Speaker 1: We recognize that you are all powerful, and we recognize Lord, 532 00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:35,200 Speaker 1: that you are sovereign, even in seasons where it feels 533 00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:38,960 Speaker 1: like you're silent. Lord, I pray for anybody who might 534 00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:42,560 Speaker 1: be listening that is going through a barren season, that 535 00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:47,600 Speaker 1: they would just feel your piece that passes understanding, that 536 00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:51,159 Speaker 1: you would anchor them in your hope that you give Lord, 537 00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:55,200 Speaker 1: that they would feel surrounded deeply by your love, and 538 00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:59,119 Speaker 1: that God, you would just continue to seek them out 539 00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:03,040 Speaker 1: and have them know that they are loved deeply by you. 540 00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:07,200 Speaker 1: We know that, Lord and God. I just I thank 541 00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:11,200 Speaker 1: you for this time. I just pray your blessing over it. 542 00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:14,200 Speaker 1: I pray your blessing over Rachel in this ministry. Lord, 543 00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:16,800 Speaker 1: I just pray for your wisdom and discernment for her. 544 00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:19,480 Speaker 1: And Lord Jesus, we just give you the rest of 545 00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:22,320 Speaker 1: this day and we thank you for it. In your name. 546 00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:25,720 Speaker 1: We pray Amen. Amen. Heather. Thank you for being my guest. 547 00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:27,960 Speaker 1: It's been an honor to have you today. Thank you 548 00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:31,719 Speaker 1: for having me. All the blessings to you and your ministry. Rachel, 549 00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:35,840 Speaker 1: thank you and thank you for listening to the Love 550 00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:39,040 Speaker 1: Offering Podcast. I hope today's conversation encouraged and inspired you 551 00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:41,320 Speaker 1: to love God, love others, and even love yourself a 552 00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:43,840 Speaker 1: little more. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it 553 00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:45,639 Speaker 1: with a friend and leave of you. It helps others 554 00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:48,000 Speaker 1: find the show and spreads the message of love even further. 555 00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:50,320 Speaker 1: To connect with me, visit me on my website at 556 00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:53,240 Speaker 1: Rachelkaadams dot com. While are there, be sure to download 557 00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:55,680 Speaker 1: the Love Offering Calendar, a free resource filled with simple 558 00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:58,440 Speaker 1: daily ways to love those around you. Be sure to 559 00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:01,399 Speaker 1: check out Heather at Levine's book Baron a Shared Journey 560 00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:04,760 Speaker 1: of infertility, loss and faith, a compassionate and hope filled 561 00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:07,879 Speaker 1: resource for women walking through infertility loss in the Long 562 00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:11,240 Speaker 1: Road of Waiting. A special thank you to Life Audio 563 00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:14,000 Speaker 1: for supporting this podcast and making it possible. To find 564 00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:17,520 Speaker 1: more great podcasts visit lifeaudio dot com. Thanks again for 565 00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:20,440 Speaker 1: joining us today. Until next time, let's make our lives 566 00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:21,840 Speaker 1: an offering of love.