1 00:00:02,710 --> 00:00:08,639 Speaker 1: Life Audio. Welcome to I Wish You Could Hear This, 2 00:00:09,060 --> 00:00:12,860 Speaker 1: where we explore great stories and simple proven steps to 3 00:00:12,900 --> 00:00:15,940 Speaker 1: help you thrive in life, faith, and relationships. 4 00:00:16,040 --> 00:00:20,890 Speaker 2: In our research, we've heard hundreds of hope-filled strategies for marriage, parenting, leadership, 5 00:00:21,010 --> 00:00:24,370 Speaker 2: and life that are grounded in science and consistent with 6 00:00:24,410 --> 00:00:26,950 Speaker 2: biblical truth. And now you can hear them too. 7 00:00:31,250 --> 00:00:32,269 Speaker 1: I'm Shanti Feldhahn. 8 00:00:32,510 --> 00:00:33,390 Speaker 2: And I'm Jeff Vildan. 9 00:00:33,890 --> 00:00:36,810 Speaker 1: We all want a great marriage, and it turns out 10 00:00:36,950 --> 00:00:40,810 Speaker 1: that little changes can make a big difference. There are 11 00:00:41,030 --> 00:00:43,930 Speaker 1: multiple steps that will help, not just in the content 12 00:00:43,990 --> 00:00:46,150 Speaker 1: of what we need to know about one another, but 13 00:00:46,210 --> 00:00:49,709 Speaker 1: in the process of how we relate to one another. 14 00:00:50,150 --> 00:00:53,390 Speaker 1: We started this conversation with three of those steps last 15 00:00:53,450 --> 00:00:57,300 Speaker 1: time in part one, and we're continuing with another three 16 00:00:57,350 --> 00:00:59,580 Speaker 1: steps today on I Wish You Could Hear This. 17 00:01:05,160 --> 00:01:10,520 Speaker 2: So this is part two of that conversation. So in 18 00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:13,200 Speaker 2: case you missed the first three, you can go back 19 00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:15,640 Speaker 2: and listen to part one. I think it'll be really helpful. 20 00:01:16,190 --> 00:01:19,009 Speaker 2: But before we dive into the next set, let's explain 21 00:01:19,050 --> 00:01:21,990 Speaker 2: the foundation of what we're going to be talking about today. 22 00:01:22,170 --> 00:01:22,670 Speaker 1: Good point. 23 00:01:22,750 --> 00:01:24,789 Speaker 2: Yeah, we do need to. In our research of the 24 00:01:24,830 --> 00:01:29,330 Speaker 2: highly happy marriages, we identified 12 little habits that make 25 00:01:29,350 --> 00:01:32,730 Speaker 2: a big difference. And the most important one of those 26 00:01:33,390 --> 00:01:35,920 Speaker 2: is the foundation for today. What is it? 27 00:01:36,420 --> 00:01:40,530 Speaker 1: It is the choice to believe the best of your 28 00:01:40,610 --> 00:01:46,539 Speaker 1: spouse's intentions towards you, even when you are legitimately hurt. 29 00:01:47,240 --> 00:01:49,220 Speaker 1: What we found in the research. 30 00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:51,080 Speaker 2: Legitimately hurt. 31 00:01:51,140 --> 00:01:54,889 Speaker 1: Like, it's a genuine something they did to hurt your feelings. 32 00:01:54,970 --> 00:01:55,470 Speaker 2: Right. 33 00:01:55,670 --> 00:01:56,150 Speaker 1: Or whatever. 34 00:01:56,190 --> 00:01:58,190 Speaker 2: It's not like you're oversensitive. 35 00:01:58,330 --> 00:01:59,410 Speaker 1: Correct. Legitimately. 36 00:01:59,450 --> 00:02:02,850 Speaker 2: You could be. But, you know, if 100 observers would 37 00:02:02,870 --> 00:02:05,750 Speaker 2: look at it and they could. Yeah. Exactly. 38 00:02:05,950 --> 00:02:09,350 Speaker 1: Yeah. Exactly. But what we found that was so crucial 39 00:02:09,970 --> 00:02:13,550 Speaker 1: is that almost all. Now, sadly, it was not 100 percent, 40 00:02:13,570 --> 00:02:17,840 Speaker 1: but it was almost 100 percent, like ninety nine point. Two, six, something, 41 00:02:17,860 --> 00:02:22,120 Speaker 1: something percent. It was very close to 100% of spouses 42 00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:28,510 Speaker 1: really deeply care about their spouse. We all, almost all, 43 00:02:28,570 --> 00:02:30,850 Speaker 1: but we're going to say all for the sake of 44 00:02:30,889 --> 00:02:34,150 Speaker 1: argument today, we all want the best for our spouse. 45 00:02:34,290 --> 00:02:37,959 Speaker 1: We do. Even when things are hard, we care about 46 00:02:37,980 --> 00:02:41,769 Speaker 1: each other. We were so struck by... in the research 47 00:02:41,850 --> 00:02:44,880 Speaker 1: for the surprising secrets of highly happy marriages, the book 48 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:47,880 Speaker 1: that we wrote based on this big research study, we 49 00:02:47,919 --> 00:02:51,580 Speaker 1: were so struck that even among the people who had 50 00:02:51,760 --> 00:02:56,750 Speaker 1: the most difficult marriages, that number of, yeah, I absolutely 51 00:02:56,820 --> 00:02:58,929 Speaker 1: care about my spouse. I want the best for them. 52 00:02:59,090 --> 00:03:03,170 Speaker 1: Even when things are hard, that number was 97% among 53 00:03:03,210 --> 00:03:06,970 Speaker 1: the people in the most difficult marriages. So we have to, 54 00:03:08,050 --> 00:03:11,880 Speaker 1: As a foundation for steps four, five, and six to 55 00:03:12,020 --> 00:03:14,440 Speaker 1: creating a great marriage that we're going to talk about today, 56 00:03:14,460 --> 00:03:20,980 Speaker 1: it all is based on letting ourselves believe that our 57 00:03:21,020 --> 00:03:21,620 Speaker 1: spouse cares. 58 00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:25,060 Speaker 2: Wow. Okay. Yes. Step four. 59 00:03:25,300 --> 00:03:27,740 Speaker 1: Well, wait, hold on. We probably should say a caveat 60 00:03:28,480 --> 00:03:33,260 Speaker 1: to this. Now, there are probably some, like we said, 61 00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:35,260 Speaker 1: it's not quite 100%. There are some. 62 00:03:37,890 --> 00:03:41,510 Speaker 1: It's relatively rare. It doesn't happen very often, but there 63 00:03:41,650 --> 00:03:44,110 Speaker 1: are some people out there who are just purely selfish 64 00:03:44,310 --> 00:03:47,410 Speaker 1: and they don't want the other person's best. And so 65 00:03:47,710 --> 00:03:51,690 Speaker 1: you may be thinking, well, that's me. Well, okay. It 66 00:03:51,770 --> 00:03:55,630 Speaker 1: could be most likely statistically it's not. And so what 67 00:03:55,670 --> 00:03:58,430 Speaker 1: we would say is a caveat is if you think 68 00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:02,860 Speaker 1: that your spouse truly doesn't care about you, ask someone 69 00:04:02,980 --> 00:04:07,020 Speaker 1: who is a trusted leader, who is an encourager of marriages, 70 00:04:07,320 --> 00:04:11,670 Speaker 1: like a trusted pastor or a Christian counselor, to help 71 00:04:11,710 --> 00:04:14,650 Speaker 1: you determine whether that is the case. Because that would 72 00:04:14,690 --> 00:04:19,030 Speaker 1: mean that you are in probably an abusive marriage relationship. 73 00:04:19,550 --> 00:04:22,700 Speaker 1: And if so, everything that we're going to be talking 74 00:04:22,740 --> 00:04:25,460 Speaker 1: about in this podcast won't apply in the same way. 75 00:04:25,640 --> 00:04:29,160 Speaker 1: And so this is not the resource for you. But 76 00:04:29,260 --> 00:04:34,590 Speaker 1: just be aware, even in the most difficult times, relationships, 77 00:04:34,750 --> 00:04:41,940 Speaker 1: the worst situations, remember 97% of people deeply cared about 78 00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:44,599 Speaker 1: their spouse. So that is probably the case for you. 79 00:04:44,880 --> 00:04:45,140 Speaker 2: Right. 80 00:04:45,520 --> 00:04:47,420 Speaker 1: Okay. So, sorry, I had to do that. 81 00:04:48,640 --> 00:04:53,400 Speaker 2: That's really helpful in today's world. So what is step four? 82 00:04:53,620 --> 00:04:57,570 Speaker 1: Okay. So step four is, and this is simple, but 83 00:04:57,610 --> 00:05:00,930 Speaker 1: it's really crucial when you are hurt. Like if you 84 00:05:00,950 --> 00:05:03,490 Speaker 1: were to do something that hurt my feelings, not that, you. 85 00:05:03,410 --> 00:05:06,200 Speaker 2: Know, never, never, never happens. 86 00:05:06,260 --> 00:05:09,940 Speaker 1: Right. But the key, this key step is here is 87 00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:13,250 Speaker 1: to say, yeah, you acknowledge that maybe you talk about it. 88 00:05:13,300 --> 00:05:13,540 Speaker 2: Right. 89 00:05:14,180 --> 00:05:19,200 Speaker 1: But then you have to look for a more generous 90 00:05:19,360 --> 00:05:24,360 Speaker 1: explanation of your spouse's behavior, because if your spouse does 91 00:05:24,440 --> 00:05:27,550 Speaker 1: care about you, which is almost certainly the case, then 92 00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:33,219 Speaker 1: there almost certainly is a more generous explanation. So If 93 00:05:33,260 --> 00:05:35,400 Speaker 1: you said something in a certain way that really hurts 94 00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:38,750 Speaker 1: my feelings, I could think, Jeff just doesn't care about me. 95 00:05:39,390 --> 00:05:41,910 Speaker 1: And then what the happiest couples would do is they 96 00:05:41,930 --> 00:05:45,410 Speaker 1: would go, no, of course he cares about me. Of 97 00:05:45,470 --> 00:05:48,210 Speaker 1: course she cares about me. That's silly. Remember the thing 98 00:05:48,230 --> 00:05:51,380 Speaker 1: that they did yesterday? Of course they care. And then 99 00:05:51,420 --> 00:05:55,320 Speaker 1: you say, okay, what's a more generous explanation? Okay, he 100 00:05:55,400 --> 00:05:57,640 Speaker 1: didn't know how that would make me feel. Or she 101 00:05:57,680 --> 00:06:00,060 Speaker 1: didn't realize that that would come across as nothing I 102 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:01,219 Speaker 1: do is ever good enough for her. 103 00:06:01,740 --> 00:06:01,810 Speaker 2: Or. 104 00:06:02,380 --> 00:06:04,300 Speaker 1: look, it was a really bad day at work. I'm 105 00:06:04,320 --> 00:06:09,120 Speaker 1: not making excuses, but this, he is not someone who. 106 00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:11,980 Speaker 2: Doesn't care about me. And what we're not saying is 107 00:06:12,060 --> 00:06:17,120 Speaker 2: that this is believing the best is you just deny 108 00:06:18,420 --> 00:06:22,050 Speaker 2: legitimate hurts when they do occur. We're not saying that, 109 00:06:22,190 --> 00:06:23,430 Speaker 2: not saying stuff it. 110 00:06:23,790 --> 00:06:27,410 Speaker 1: No, absolutely not. If you are going to create a 111 00:06:27,430 --> 00:06:30,510 Speaker 1: happy marriage, you have to be able to talk about things. 112 00:06:30,550 --> 00:06:33,100 Speaker 1: You have to be able to, to address things that 113 00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:36,320 Speaker 1: need to be addressed, but it's how you address them. 114 00:06:36,730 --> 00:06:40,950 Speaker 1: And so that's why step four is so foundational and 115 00:06:41,170 --> 00:06:46,210 Speaker 1: was the most important secret of the happiest couples. And 116 00:06:46,270 --> 00:06:48,530 Speaker 1: by the way, the happiest couples that we studied, I 117 00:06:48,550 --> 00:06:50,510 Speaker 1: think we said this last time, need to say this 118 00:06:50,570 --> 00:06:55,380 Speaker 1: now in part two, the happiest couples, these weren't just 119 00:06:55,420 --> 00:06:58,220 Speaker 1: people who were like tiptoeing through the tulips their whole marriages. 120 00:06:58,300 --> 00:07:02,400 Speaker 1: Like these included people many couples who had gone from 121 00:07:03,060 --> 00:07:09,920 Speaker 1: really difficult marriages into being the happiest marriages. And this 122 00:07:10,460 --> 00:07:15,300 Speaker 1: one thing wasn't about denying legitimate hurt, but it was 123 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:22,110 Speaker 1: about not saying that there is a difference between saying, Hey, 124 00:07:22,150 --> 00:07:25,210 Speaker 1: that hurt me. And you wanted to hurt me. Right. 125 00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:27,080 Speaker 2: Those are two. 126 00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:30,840 Speaker 1: Very different things, and we don't realize how much we're 127 00:07:30,860 --> 00:07:32,660 Speaker 1: assuming the latter. 128 00:07:32,700 --> 00:07:36,320 Speaker 2: You know, this brings me back to a conversation we 129 00:07:36,360 --> 00:07:40,480 Speaker 2: had with our co-author, Dr. Michael Seitzma, when we were 130 00:07:40,500 --> 00:07:45,750 Speaker 2: doing the research for the surprising secrets of sex and marriage. Yes. 131 00:07:47,090 --> 00:07:50,710 Speaker 2: For those of you who have not heard us describe Dr. Seitzma, 132 00:07:51,230 --> 00:07:57,940 Speaker 2: he's been... 35 years in marriage counseling, sex, particularly with 133 00:07:57,980 --> 00:08:01,100 Speaker 2: an expertise in sexual issues. Yeah. 134 00:08:01,740 --> 00:08:04,920 Speaker 1: And so anyways, lots of marriage issues, you know, just 135 00:08:05,180 --> 00:08:06,280 Speaker 1: also general marriage. Right. 136 00:08:06,720 --> 00:08:10,310 Speaker 2: And so as he, he talked about this, um, like 137 00:08:10,450 --> 00:08:15,630 Speaker 2: in hurtful situations where one spouse has hurt the other. 138 00:08:15,790 --> 00:08:16,190 Speaker 1: Okay. 139 00:08:16,630 --> 00:08:20,630 Speaker 2: Um, he puts it into a couple of buckets. Is 140 00:08:20,730 --> 00:08:26,450 Speaker 2: it bad heredity? A bad heart or bad skills? So good. 141 00:08:26,470 --> 00:08:30,550 Speaker 2: Because if it's a bad heart, you have to approach 142 00:08:30,610 --> 00:08:34,630 Speaker 2: that much differently than if it's bad skills. 143 00:08:34,830 --> 00:08:37,040 Speaker 1: Well, that's like what I said at the beginning, the caveat. 144 00:08:37,800 --> 00:08:38,859 Speaker 2: Yes. 145 00:08:38,940 --> 00:08:40,660 Speaker 1: Does this person have a bad heart? 146 00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:41,200 Speaker 2: Right. 147 00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:44,439 Speaker 1: Or is it just that they're just not good at 148 00:08:44,480 --> 00:08:47,040 Speaker 1: that type of communication or they fumble their words or 149 00:08:47,059 --> 00:08:48,220 Speaker 1: they're having a bad day? 150 00:08:48,320 --> 00:08:51,420 Speaker 2: Or they don't recognize things that they should. 151 00:08:51,860 --> 00:08:55,020 Speaker 1: Or, yes. I mean, we all do that. Yeah. All 152 00:08:55,070 --> 00:08:57,770 Speaker 1: of us, 100% of us hurt each other's feelings, and 153 00:08:57,809 --> 00:09:01,250 Speaker 1: it doesn't mean we don't care. It could just be that. 154 00:09:00,730 --> 00:09:03,890 Speaker 2: We didn't do very well that day. And his, I 155 00:09:03,929 --> 00:09:06,370 Speaker 2: think you'd ask them the question, well, what's kind of like, 156 00:09:07,450 --> 00:09:13,030 Speaker 2: what's the percentage of people with bad hearts versus bad skills? 157 00:09:13,230 --> 00:09:15,910 Speaker 1: And we were asking this knowing that he sees sometimes 158 00:09:15,970 --> 00:09:16,790 Speaker 1: the worst of the worst. 159 00:09:16,850 --> 00:09:19,090 Speaker 2: Correct. Right. And I'm not going to give you the 160 00:09:19,190 --> 00:09:26,370 Speaker 2: actual numbers, but it was... remarkably small in his estimation. 161 00:09:25,910 --> 00:09:29,390 Speaker 1: Of thousands of people that he has helped. Correct. 162 00:09:29,530 --> 00:09:33,380 Speaker 2: Over the, over the decades, tiny number of those that 163 00:09:33,790 --> 00:09:36,219 Speaker 2: he would say they just have a bad heart. 164 00:09:36,460 --> 00:09:40,200 Speaker 1: Yeah. It is so easy today. I can hear people 165 00:09:40,320 --> 00:09:43,780 Speaker 1: thinking as they're listening to this, well, my wife is 166 00:09:43,820 --> 00:09:46,610 Speaker 1: just a narcissist or my husband is just a narcissist. 167 00:09:46,990 --> 00:09:50,050 Speaker 1: And you know, that is, has become shorthand. 168 00:09:50,250 --> 00:09:50,350 Speaker 2: Yep. 169 00:09:50,790 --> 00:09:58,689 Speaker 1: For a bad heart and just recognize statistically probably not. Right. 170 00:09:58,910 --> 00:09:59,970 Speaker 1: Probably something else. 171 00:10:00,940 --> 00:10:05,420 Speaker 2: Going on. And, you know, if there's something else going on, 172 00:10:06,040 --> 00:10:09,980 Speaker 2: then perhaps some skills training can get you to the 173 00:10:10,020 --> 00:10:13,340 Speaker 2: place or for that person and for yourself. Right. You 174 00:10:13,380 --> 00:10:15,740 Speaker 2: can get to the place that you really want to 175 00:10:15,780 --> 00:10:17,420 Speaker 2: be in your marriage. Yes. 176 00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:20,060 Speaker 1: One of the most important things here, as you can 177 00:10:20,100 --> 00:10:23,580 Speaker 1: kind of tell based on what we're saying, is just 178 00:10:23,620 --> 00:10:26,790 Speaker 1: to recognize something can have a painful impact on you 179 00:10:27,309 --> 00:10:29,250 Speaker 1: without having a painful intention. 180 00:10:29,610 --> 00:10:29,830 Speaker 2: Right. 181 00:10:30,130 --> 00:10:33,590 Speaker 1: Like we just have to be willing to acknowledge that 182 00:10:33,670 --> 00:10:38,030 Speaker 1: and say, yes, that does look it does happen sometimes. 183 00:10:44,100 --> 00:10:46,800 Speaker 1: what does this look like? Like from a practical standpoint, 184 00:10:47,179 --> 00:10:50,120 Speaker 1: what does it look like to say, Oh, you know, 185 00:10:50,380 --> 00:10:55,740 Speaker 1: it plays out that sometimes somebody might do or say, 186 00:10:56,000 --> 00:10:59,680 Speaker 1: handle something in a hurtful way, but they didn't intend 187 00:10:59,700 --> 00:11:00,240 Speaker 1: to hurt. 188 00:11:00,500 --> 00:11:04,520 Speaker 2: Right. So let me think back to when we were 189 00:11:05,300 --> 00:11:09,059 Speaker 2: young marrieds and we lived in New York. And I'm 190 00:11:09,080 --> 00:11:12,260 Speaker 2: going to just pull out, you know, we had different 191 00:11:12,340 --> 00:11:14,610 Speaker 2: approaches to, to finances. 192 00:11:15,010 --> 00:11:15,330 Speaker 1: Oh, dear. 193 00:11:15,350 --> 00:11:19,530 Speaker 2: I'm now worried about what example you're going to give. Well, 194 00:11:19,570 --> 00:11:22,970 Speaker 2: we had, you know, to our listeners, we had lots 195 00:11:23,210 --> 00:11:23,830 Speaker 2: of student loan debt. 196 00:11:23,850 --> 00:11:26,459 Speaker 1: We started out, this was 32 years ago, we started 197 00:11:26,530 --> 00:11:30,400 Speaker 1: out with $ 135, 000 in student loan debt. Like today would 198 00:11:30,420 --> 00:11:33,120 Speaker 1: be $ 250, 000. 199 00:11:31,400 --> 00:11:35,680 Speaker 2: Easily. Yeah. Yes. So, but, you know, I was fixated 200 00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:39,199 Speaker 2: on getting rid of that debt. I hated debt. And 201 00:11:39,220 --> 00:11:41,520 Speaker 2: you were. 202 00:11:40,660 --> 00:11:42,280 Speaker 1: Making a great salary. 203 00:11:42,380 --> 00:11:42,640 Speaker 2: I was. 204 00:11:42,660 --> 00:11:44,079 Speaker 1: I was making a decent salary. 205 00:11:44,760 --> 00:11:48,929 Speaker 2: But it really was my goal was to get rid 206 00:11:48,970 --> 00:11:52,449 Speaker 2: of that as quickly as we could. 207 00:11:52,470 --> 00:11:53,470 Speaker 1: Okay. 208 00:11:53,850 --> 00:11:57,610 Speaker 2: And you had a different approach to money. Not that 209 00:11:57,630 --> 00:12:01,030 Speaker 2: you wanted us to have debt. You weren't a spendthrift 210 00:12:01,090 --> 00:12:04,589 Speaker 2: by any means. But when we would go out and, 211 00:12:04,610 --> 00:12:06,390 Speaker 2: you know, if we went out, you wanted to go 212 00:12:06,410 --> 00:12:11,480 Speaker 2: out to dinner and we went out. Oftentimes, the selection 213 00:12:11,559 --> 00:12:13,140 Speaker 2: choices or whatever it was. 214 00:12:13,160 --> 00:12:16,540 Speaker 1: I would order a Diet Coke, which cost $ 4. 50 in 215 00:12:16,559 --> 00:12:19,240 Speaker 1: New York with no free refills. Or I would order 216 00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:23,380 Speaker 1: a dessert. Or let's have a cup of coffee. And 217 00:12:24,320 --> 00:12:27,310 Speaker 1: I could see the cash register behind your eyes. 218 00:12:27,510 --> 00:12:29,610 Speaker 2: Cha-ching, cha-ching, cha-ching. 219 00:12:29,990 --> 00:12:32,830 Speaker 1: Okay, that's now $ 14 worth. 220 00:12:32,610 --> 00:12:37,589 Speaker 2: Of ancillary things. Ancillary things. What I viewed as ancillary things. 221 00:12:38,220 --> 00:12:41,040 Speaker 2: And instead of going, you know, this is just kind 222 00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:44,190 Speaker 2: of the way Shanti is. Maybe we could talk about it. 223 00:12:44,500 --> 00:12:47,960 Speaker 2: We didn't, which was a big problem. Instead, I just 224 00:12:48,020 --> 00:12:52,089 Speaker 2: kind of marked it off in my mind mentally that 225 00:12:52,170 --> 00:12:56,989 Speaker 2: Shanti just had a character flaw. And, you know, I 226 00:12:57,010 --> 00:12:59,309 Speaker 2: wouldn't go as far as saying a bad heart. But 227 00:12:59,550 --> 00:13:03,030 Speaker 2: as far as on this particular topic, I thought it 228 00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:05,540 Speaker 2: was just who you were. Yeah. 229 00:13:06,570 --> 00:13:11,650 Speaker 1: Well, you also, in our topic today, it wasn't in 230 00:13:11,750 --> 00:13:14,270 Speaker 1: keeping sort of with what we're talking about today, what 231 00:13:14,510 --> 00:13:16,589 Speaker 1: you were worried about, if I'm, I don't want to 232 00:13:16,610 --> 00:13:20,260 Speaker 1: put words in your mouth, but you were assuming it 233 00:13:20,940 --> 00:13:23,800 Speaker 1: wasn't just a character flaw, but that I didn't care about. 234 00:13:23,860 --> 00:13:24,160 Speaker 2: Right. 235 00:13:24,460 --> 00:13:25,880 Speaker 1: I didn't care about. 236 00:13:26,540 --> 00:13:27,280 Speaker 2: How hard it was. 237 00:13:27,340 --> 00:13:30,400 Speaker 1: You were working a hundred hour weeks to try to 238 00:13:30,440 --> 00:13:33,569 Speaker 1: get rid of that student loan debt. Now, In my defense, 239 00:13:33,850 --> 00:13:36,050 Speaker 1: you were working 100 hour weeks, whether or not we 240 00:13:36,070 --> 00:13:39,370 Speaker 1: had a penny of student loan debt, because this was 241 00:13:39,530 --> 00:13:43,310 Speaker 1: the law firm that you were working at. But in 242 00:13:43,370 --> 00:13:46,030 Speaker 1: your mind, the fact that I would order a Diet 243 00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:49,380 Speaker 1: Coke and a dessert meant that I didn't care. 244 00:13:49,620 --> 00:13:52,880 Speaker 2: Correct. That is true. You put words in my mouth, 245 00:13:52,940 --> 00:13:57,240 Speaker 2: but they were accurate words. So thank you. So how 246 00:13:57,280 --> 00:14:02,070 Speaker 2: did we get through that? And what can how can 247 00:14:02,270 --> 00:14:03,510 Speaker 2: others get through similar things? 248 00:14:03,530 --> 00:14:06,830 Speaker 1: The example there is you are assuming the worst. 249 00:14:06,950 --> 00:14:07,290 Speaker 2: I was. 250 00:14:07,630 --> 00:14:11,960 Speaker 1: Of my intentions towards you. And as we, you know, 251 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:14,280 Speaker 1: kind of came to grips with it. And one of 252 00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:16,540 Speaker 1: the things that helped come to grips with it was 253 00:14:16,920 --> 00:14:19,320 Speaker 1: when you and I finally talked about ordering Diet Coke 254 00:14:20,060 --> 00:14:23,440 Speaker 1: at the restaurant. And I told you, you know, I 255 00:14:23,460 --> 00:14:26,490 Speaker 1: know this is going to sound funny, but like. I can't, 256 00:14:26,630 --> 00:14:28,590 Speaker 1: I don't like the taste of water. Like we were 257 00:14:28,650 --> 00:14:31,290 Speaker 1: newly enough married that you just didn't know these things. 258 00:14:31,690 --> 00:14:33,400 Speaker 1: I don't like the taste of water. And like, I 259 00:14:33,430 --> 00:14:36,760 Speaker 1: can't really enjoy a nice meal out if I just 260 00:14:36,780 --> 00:14:39,280 Speaker 1: have water. So, you know, I would want a diet 261 00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:42,220 Speaker 1: Coke or iced tea or something. And if I can't 262 00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:44,880 Speaker 1: have that, I'd rather not go out because I just 263 00:14:44,900 --> 00:14:46,760 Speaker 1: won't enjoy it. I know that's crazy. 264 00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:50,180 Speaker 2: And you would have, and you did, I think say, look, I'm, 265 00:14:50,420 --> 00:14:54,540 Speaker 2: I'm content that on those occasions when you are, Are 266 00:14:54,580 --> 00:14:57,160 Speaker 2: not working at night. And we do have a chance 267 00:14:57,200 --> 00:14:58,340 Speaker 2: to have dinner together. 268 00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:00,380 Speaker 1: We don't have to go out. 269 00:15:00,500 --> 00:15:05,020 Speaker 2: Pick up something at the corner. You know. Exactly. Something. 270 00:15:05,430 --> 00:15:06,990 Speaker 2: And I'll have my Diet Coke at home. 271 00:15:07,270 --> 00:15:10,610 Speaker 1: Yeah. And I was fine with that. And you suddenly realized. 272 00:15:10,650 --> 00:15:11,810 Speaker 2: I did. Oh. 273 00:15:12,070 --> 00:15:15,750 Speaker 1: It isn't that she doesn't care. About how hard I'm working. 274 00:15:16,290 --> 00:15:17,970 Speaker 1: This is just a thing for her. 275 00:15:17,990 --> 00:15:18,060 Speaker 2: Yep. 276 00:15:19,210 --> 00:15:20,150 Speaker 1: She doesn't like water. 277 00:15:20,350 --> 00:15:20,550 Speaker 2: Like. 278 00:15:21,110 --> 00:15:24,800 Speaker 1: And so. That's an example of you're not. There's two 279 00:15:24,870 --> 00:15:29,390 Speaker 1: steps there. One is that you have to look for 280 00:15:29,430 --> 00:15:30,150 Speaker 1: a more. 281 00:15:30,450 --> 00:15:31,230 Speaker 2: Generous explanation. 282 00:15:31,250 --> 00:15:34,510 Speaker 1: Generous explanation of your spouse's behavior. But in order to 283 00:15:34,570 --> 00:15:37,720 Speaker 1: do that, there's actually maybe a pre-step. So there's like 284 00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:41,820 Speaker 1: a 4.1 and 4.2. Okay. 4.1, sometimes you have to 285 00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:42,540 Speaker 1: talk about it. 286 00:15:42,660 --> 00:15:42,820 Speaker 2: Right. 287 00:15:42,940 --> 00:15:44,620 Speaker 1: You do have to understand. 288 00:15:44,640 --> 00:15:45,080 Speaker 2: Yeah. 289 00:15:45,100 --> 00:15:48,570 Speaker 1: And that isn't pushing it down and pretending it doesn't exist. 290 00:15:48,870 --> 00:15:50,330 Speaker 2: Let's move on to step five. 291 00:15:50,510 --> 00:15:52,030 Speaker 1: Okay. So what is step five? 292 00:15:52,090 --> 00:15:52,210 Speaker 2: So. 293 00:15:53,070 --> 00:15:57,730 Speaker 1: Step five is that we need to be also not 294 00:15:57,830 --> 00:16:02,390 Speaker 1: just looking for how to believe the best of our 295 00:16:02,430 --> 00:16:06,390 Speaker 1: spouse's intentions towards us. We also have to look for 296 00:16:06,430 --> 00:16:09,390 Speaker 1: things that we could be doing that hurt our spouse 297 00:16:09,870 --> 00:16:12,810 Speaker 1: and work to change those things because it is so 298 00:16:13,070 --> 00:16:16,650 Speaker 1: easy to focus on what our spouse needs to do differently. 299 00:16:16,790 --> 00:16:19,610 Speaker 1: And we need to come to grips with the fact 300 00:16:19,650 --> 00:16:22,940 Speaker 1: that it's not just our spouse that That's the issue 301 00:16:22,980 --> 00:16:26,500 Speaker 1: we are too. And like, I may be doing things 302 00:16:26,540 --> 00:16:27,100 Speaker 1: to you. 303 00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:28,950 Speaker 2: That cause you to have to believe the best of me. 304 00:16:29,130 --> 00:16:33,070 Speaker 2: And the thing that is so wired into each of 305 00:16:33,210 --> 00:16:38,670 Speaker 2: us is this kind of idea that we have that, 306 00:16:39,370 --> 00:16:44,980 Speaker 2: but that, that shouldn't hurt their feelings. That shouldn't upset them. 307 00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:49,860 Speaker 2: It wouldn't upset me. And, and, and we have this, 308 00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:53,860 Speaker 2: I don't know why it is, but we have this 309 00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:59,770 Speaker 2: tendency to go, you know, that's a little thing, but 310 00:16:59,830 --> 00:17:02,930 Speaker 2: what they did to me, it's really a big thing 311 00:17:02,970 --> 00:17:03,870 Speaker 2: and it really hurts. 312 00:17:03,930 --> 00:17:06,409 Speaker 1: You know, I think the reason for that, and I, 313 00:17:06,570 --> 00:17:08,390 Speaker 1: this is one of the things we talk about when 314 00:17:08,430 --> 00:17:10,310 Speaker 1: we do like marriage events and that kind of stuff 315 00:17:10,869 --> 00:17:13,820 Speaker 1: is I think the issue is that so often what 316 00:17:13,859 --> 00:17:17,720 Speaker 1: those things are, are those hitting the raw nerve that's 317 00:17:17,820 --> 00:17:20,920 Speaker 1: of insecurity and, that's running under the surface. And it's 318 00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:25,060 Speaker 1: just your insecurity. That raw nerve is different from mine. 319 00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:28,820 Speaker 1: So something different is going to hurt my feelings than 320 00:17:29,220 --> 00:17:32,800 Speaker 1: would hurt yours. And I am going to hit that 321 00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:36,699 Speaker 1: raw nerve sometimes without intending to. And we have to 322 00:17:36,740 --> 00:17:41,510 Speaker 1: be willing to say, oh my gosh, that is legitimate. 323 00:17:41,550 --> 00:17:44,630 Speaker 1: Like that's honestly, I think that's one of the reasons 324 00:17:44,830 --> 00:17:49,889 Speaker 1: the original research-based book for women only just exploded in 325 00:17:49,930 --> 00:17:53,870 Speaker 1: terms of sales and attention is it was so many 326 00:17:53,910 --> 00:17:58,050 Speaker 1: women going, Oh my gosh, like I had no idea 327 00:17:58,070 --> 00:18:01,170 Speaker 1: that I was hurting my husband's feelings. I mean, that, 328 00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:02,459 Speaker 1: that's the reason I. 329 00:18:02,440 --> 00:18:05,480 Speaker 2: Wrote the book is I can still. 330 00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:09,000 Speaker 1: Remember one of the key moments that started the ball 331 00:18:09,060 --> 00:18:10,960 Speaker 1: rolling on that. I don't know if you remember this, 332 00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:14,140 Speaker 1: but this is still burned into my brain. And this 333 00:18:14,220 --> 00:18:18,720 Speaker 1: is what, 25 years later or something. I can still 334 00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:22,710 Speaker 1: remember we were in a small group and our small 335 00:18:22,750 --> 00:18:27,290 Speaker 1: group at the time was meeting in the house across 336 00:18:27,310 --> 00:18:29,790 Speaker 1: the street from our house. Okay. Because we had close 337 00:18:29,810 --> 00:18:32,350 Speaker 1: friends that at the time lived across the street from us. 338 00:18:33,530 --> 00:18:40,060 Speaker 1: And I can still remember walking across the street and 339 00:18:40,080 --> 00:18:45,439 Speaker 1: it was nighttime and you were so quiet and you 340 00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:50,430 Speaker 1: were so subdued and I was like chattering away or whatever. 341 00:18:50,490 --> 00:18:52,910 Speaker 1: And you just were not responding. And I'm like, what's wrong? 342 00:18:53,109 --> 00:18:57,230 Speaker 1: And you were finally able to articulate something. And you 343 00:18:57,270 --> 00:19:00,750 Speaker 1: said something to the effect of, and you gave, and 344 00:19:00,790 --> 00:19:04,120 Speaker 1: you did believe the best, which was good because you 345 00:19:04,130 --> 00:19:06,690 Speaker 1: said something to the effect of, I don't think you 346 00:19:06,760 --> 00:19:12,600 Speaker 1: realize how unbelievably embarrassed I am right now. And you said, 347 00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:14,959 Speaker 1: I don't think you realize you weren't saying you were 348 00:19:14,980 --> 00:19:17,239 Speaker 1: doing this on purpose. And I said, what, what, what 349 00:19:17,260 --> 00:19:20,899 Speaker 1: did I do? And You said, and this is what 350 00:19:20,920 --> 00:19:24,030 Speaker 1: you said, we were talking about something and I can't 351 00:19:24,070 --> 00:19:26,830 Speaker 1: remember what it was, but it was like the equivalent of, hey, 352 00:19:26,890 --> 00:19:30,250 Speaker 1: we have this new house, you know, the plumbing just broke. 353 00:19:31,270 --> 00:19:33,770 Speaker 1: And you're like, I'm going to try to fix the plumbing. 354 00:19:33,869 --> 00:19:38,010 Speaker 1: And I, thinking it was funny, made a joke of 355 00:19:38,090 --> 00:19:40,510 Speaker 1: some kind that was like, you've never been able to 356 00:19:40,570 --> 00:19:43,080 Speaker 1: fix the plumbing in your life. Like you said, your 357 00:19:43,100 --> 00:19:45,359 Speaker 1: dad was the fix it guy, not you. Let's just 358 00:19:45,380 --> 00:19:49,640 Speaker 1: hire a plumber. And you said, I don't think you realize. 359 00:19:50,060 --> 00:19:54,820 Speaker 1: how incredibly embarrassed I am right now that you teased 360 00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:59,900 Speaker 1: me about something that I'm inadequate about and I'm sensitive 361 00:19:59,960 --> 00:20:03,540 Speaker 1: about in front of all of our friends in our 362 00:20:03,580 --> 00:20:08,210 Speaker 1: small group and I was like oh my gosh like 363 00:20:08,830 --> 00:20:11,190 Speaker 1: I would never want to make, I mean, this was 364 00:20:11,230 --> 00:20:14,330 Speaker 1: my realization at the time. I would never want to 365 00:20:14,390 --> 00:20:17,580 Speaker 1: make you feel that way. And yet I was doing 366 00:20:17,619 --> 00:20:21,160 Speaker 1: it over and over. And that's honestly one of the 367 00:20:21,220 --> 00:20:27,020 Speaker 1: key things that started the ball rolling into, oh my word, 368 00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:29,399 Speaker 1: I need to understand my husband more. I need to 369 00:20:29,420 --> 00:20:32,800 Speaker 1: understand men more. And God ended up making this way 370 00:20:32,859 --> 00:20:35,119 Speaker 1: for us to do this big national survey of men 371 00:20:35,300 --> 00:20:38,530 Speaker 1: and created the book for women only. And it exploded 372 00:20:38,630 --> 00:20:42,450 Speaker 1: because most readers were like me and going, I had 373 00:20:42,530 --> 00:20:49,890 Speaker 1: no idea that my big, strong, confident-looking husband had this 374 00:20:50,050 --> 00:20:52,359 Speaker 1: self-doubt inside. Right. And I was hitting it. 375 00:20:53,109 --> 00:20:53,570 Speaker 2: Hmm. 376 00:20:54,430 --> 00:20:57,770 Speaker 1: Well... I mean, that's just an example. 377 00:20:57,280 --> 00:21:01,619 Speaker 2: Of being aware. I'm glad I have no memory of that. 378 00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:05,879 Speaker 2: I'm glad you have no memory. I truly don't because... 379 00:21:06,420 --> 00:21:10,680 Speaker 2: You have, over the past 20 plus years, worked to 380 00:21:10,820 --> 00:21:13,220 Speaker 2: not do that sort of thing. I have. 381 00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:15,260 Speaker 1: Well, it was because I did it so much. 382 00:21:15,420 --> 00:21:16,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, okay. 383 00:21:16,340 --> 00:21:20,090 Speaker 1: Without realizing it. And there were things that you probably 384 00:21:20,130 --> 00:21:22,369 Speaker 1: did that I don't have a memory of now. 385 00:21:22,670 --> 00:21:23,090 Speaker 2: I'm sure. 386 00:21:23,250 --> 00:21:28,490 Speaker 1: That you've worked on these things. But this second, this 387 00:21:28,970 --> 00:21:32,359 Speaker 1: step number five, the second step for today, of recognizing 388 00:21:32,390 --> 00:21:35,659 Speaker 1: what you have to work on, this is so. 389 00:21:36,690 --> 00:21:40,909 Speaker 2: Well, we've all heard that truism of you can't change 390 00:21:40,950 --> 00:21:46,109 Speaker 2: your spouse. Yes. You can only change yourself. So I 391 00:21:46,150 --> 00:21:49,320 Speaker 2: think that's that's really we need to take that to heart, 392 00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:53,420 Speaker 2: because what I really wanted to do in those early 393 00:21:53,460 --> 00:21:58,320 Speaker 2: years was change you, you know, so that you fit perfectly. 394 00:21:58,790 --> 00:22:02,189 Speaker 1: I can see why now that, you know, once I realized. 395 00:22:01,670 --> 00:22:03,330 Speaker 2: All the things that I was doing. Right. 396 00:22:03,590 --> 00:22:06,890 Speaker 1: Yes. And the same thing. Like, it's really easy for 397 00:22:06,930 --> 00:22:08,730 Speaker 1: me to, it was easy for me early on to 398 00:22:08,770 --> 00:22:10,650 Speaker 1: be like, he's working 100 hours a week. 399 00:22:10,869 --> 00:22:11,490 Speaker 2: He doesn't care. 400 00:22:11,510 --> 00:22:13,970 Speaker 1: He doesn't care about me, you know, whatever. Yeah. 401 00:22:14,630 --> 00:22:18,520 Speaker 2: No, I get it. So we did a podcast a 402 00:22:18,580 --> 00:22:22,479 Speaker 2: few episodes ago with friends of ours, Mark and Jill Savage. 403 00:22:22,540 --> 00:22:23,540 Speaker 1: Yeah. Amazing. 404 00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:27,560 Speaker 2: Do you want to share that one thing that, came 405 00:22:27,660 --> 00:22:29,020 Speaker 2: out of that? I mean, there were so many good 406 00:22:29,060 --> 00:22:30,760 Speaker 2: things in that podcast. 407 00:22:30,940 --> 00:22:33,419 Speaker 1: I'll tell the example and then you can share what 408 00:22:33,460 --> 00:22:35,740 Speaker 1: came out of it because this was something you were like, 409 00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:38,460 Speaker 1: I think we need to raise this. We'll do the podcast. 410 00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:41,700 Speaker 1: So basically, okay, Mark and Jill Savage, we did a 411 00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:44,939 Speaker 1: podcast with them a number of episodes ago. You can 412 00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:51,140 Speaker 1: look it up. And the main sort of point behind 413 00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:54,420 Speaker 1: their story, the main crux of it is that they 414 00:22:54,460 --> 00:22:59,150 Speaker 1: were both ministry leaders and And Jill led this huge 415 00:22:59,190 --> 00:23:02,970 Speaker 1: women's ministry called Hearts at Home. Mark was a pastor 416 00:23:02,990 --> 00:23:09,910 Speaker 1: and then ended up going the wrong direction and he 417 00:23:09,970 --> 00:23:14,369 Speaker 1: ended up having an affair. And there was this, as 418 00:23:14,430 --> 00:23:17,330 Speaker 1: you can imagine, this huge, oh my word, what are 419 00:23:17,350 --> 00:23:25,740 Speaker 1: we doing? And this massive effort on Jill's part To 420 00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:29,040 Speaker 1: be like, okay, Lord, what do you want me to 421 00:23:29,060 --> 00:23:33,330 Speaker 1: do here? And there was a lot of discussion because 422 00:23:33,369 --> 00:23:35,330 Speaker 1: he was like, I'm done. I'm out of here. And 423 00:23:35,430 --> 00:23:37,990 Speaker 1: she just was like, okay, Lord, what do you want 424 00:23:38,130 --> 00:23:38,929 Speaker 1: me to do? 425 00:23:39,290 --> 00:23:39,629 Speaker 2: Right. 426 00:23:39,850 --> 00:23:41,909 Speaker 1: Not what am I going to do? But like, what 427 00:23:41,930 --> 00:23:45,000 Speaker 1: do you want me to do in this really, really 428 00:23:45,220 --> 00:23:49,600 Speaker 1: horribly difficult situation? And she felt like the Lord was like, 429 00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:51,560 Speaker 1: just keep being kind. 430 00:23:52,060 --> 00:23:56,680 Speaker 2: And stand for your marriage. Don't assume. Don't throw it 431 00:23:56,800 --> 00:23:57,240 Speaker 2: out yet. 432 00:23:57,280 --> 00:23:59,500 Speaker 1: Don't throw it out yet. Like, don't assume that it's. 433 00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:00,200 Speaker 2: It's over. 434 00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:03,859 Speaker 1: It's over. But there was something that she felt in 435 00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:04,699 Speaker 1: the middle of that. 436 00:24:04,780 --> 00:24:08,060 Speaker 2: Yeah, she was. I remember she said, if I can 437 00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:12,320 Speaker 2: get it correct, she was talking to the Lord and 438 00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:19,120 Speaker 2: talking and sharing how hurt she felt. by Mark and 439 00:24:19,550 --> 00:24:22,750 Speaker 2: all of these things, all of these other things. And, 440 00:24:23,250 --> 00:24:28,389 Speaker 2: and just really was, was struggling and, and verbalizing, you know, 441 00:24:28,510 --> 00:24:32,530 Speaker 2: in her prayer, you know, in her anguish. 442 00:24:32,590 --> 00:24:33,390 Speaker 1: Yep. Yep. 443 00:24:33,790 --> 00:24:36,810 Speaker 2: And it was all these things about Mark. And then 444 00:24:36,930 --> 00:24:40,909 Speaker 2: she said, she felt that the Holy spirit said something 445 00:24:40,970 --> 00:24:42,449 Speaker 2: to her, which. 446 00:24:42,369 --> 00:24:45,669 Speaker 1: Was, which was basically, you know, you're not always the 447 00:24:45,730 --> 00:24:47,250 Speaker 1: most easy to get along with either. 448 00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:48,920 Speaker 2: Wow. 449 00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:52,980 Speaker 1: You know, like the Lord was like, obviously not minimizing 450 00:24:53,020 --> 00:24:56,000 Speaker 1: what he had done. But in her laundry list of 451 00:24:56,180 --> 00:24:59,300 Speaker 1: problems about him, she felt God brought her up short 452 00:24:59,340 --> 00:25:00,860 Speaker 1: and said, you know, you're. 453 00:25:01,020 --> 00:25:04,240 Speaker 2: Not always the best person either. Right. And this isn't 454 00:25:04,300 --> 00:25:07,380 Speaker 2: God blaming the victim, you know, by any means. But 455 00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:12,980 Speaker 2: the bottom line is that we all fall short of 456 00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:18,540 Speaker 2: what we really expect of ourselves. And certainly. Of what, 457 00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:22,340 Speaker 2: you know, we can be doing, you know, living according to, 458 00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:24,640 Speaker 2: you know, as a follower of Christ. 459 00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:26,800 Speaker 1: Well, this also brings up forgiveness. 460 00:25:27,340 --> 00:25:27,740 Speaker 2: Yeah. 461 00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:33,040 Speaker 1: This also brings up the parables and like the parable 462 00:25:33,060 --> 00:25:35,500 Speaker 1: that I'm thinking of, and I don't remember the exact numbers, but, 463 00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:39,700 Speaker 1: you know, Jesus saying there was a servant who was, 464 00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:43,620 Speaker 1: you know, forgiven years of income, you know, debt. 465 00:25:43,930 --> 00:25:44,950 Speaker 2: A servant of the king. 466 00:25:44,970 --> 00:25:45,869 Speaker 1: A servant of the king. 467 00:25:46,190 --> 00:25:48,359 Speaker 2: I think it was 10,000 talents. 468 00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:50,960 Speaker 1: Okay, so many years, more than anyone. 469 00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:55,480 Speaker 2: I recently heard a sermon on this with our pastor, 470 00:25:55,740 --> 00:25:58,760 Speaker 2: our former pastor, Tim Keller. So one of his older sermons, 471 00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:02,110 Speaker 2: he was talking about this and about forgiveness. And so 472 00:26:02,270 --> 00:26:04,930 Speaker 2: in that particular parable, there was said there was a 473 00:26:04,970 --> 00:26:09,189 Speaker 2: servant of the king and he owed 10,000 talents and 474 00:26:09,650 --> 00:26:13,090 Speaker 2: couldn't repay it. So the king- you know, said, let's 475 00:26:13,190 --> 00:26:16,450 Speaker 2: deliver him to the prison and until he can repay 476 00:26:16,490 --> 00:26:19,780 Speaker 2: his debt. And he said, Oh, I can't, please, please 477 00:26:19,859 --> 00:26:23,820 Speaker 2: forgive me. And the King did. And then that exact 478 00:26:23,940 --> 00:26:29,660 Speaker 2: servant went and found another servant that owed him something like, yeah, 479 00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:33,810 Speaker 2: something very small. And, you know, the guy said, please 480 00:26:33,850 --> 00:26:36,930 Speaker 2: have mercy grace with me. I can't repay it right now, 481 00:26:37,010 --> 00:26:41,460 Speaker 2: but I will. And so, didn't have grace or mercy 482 00:26:41,500 --> 00:26:44,719 Speaker 2: and threw him into the debtor's prison or whatever. And 483 00:26:44,940 --> 00:26:48,280 Speaker 2: the other servants that had witnessed both of these things 484 00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:53,030 Speaker 2: went and told the king. And now the interesting part 485 00:26:53,210 --> 00:26:58,930 Speaker 2: about this, and Jesus essentially said, and unless you do, 486 00:26:59,710 --> 00:27:03,450 Speaker 2: you know, forgive from your heart, you know, the Lord 487 00:27:03,490 --> 00:27:07,880 Speaker 2: is going to, you know, hold you to that same account. 488 00:27:08,810 --> 00:27:14,109 Speaker 2: And as Pastor Keller was saying in this particular sermon, 489 00:27:14,490 --> 00:27:16,629 Speaker 2: he was saying, you know, when we think of the 490 00:27:17,250 --> 00:27:20,210 Speaker 2: use of the term servants, we oftentimes think of like 491 00:27:20,230 --> 00:27:24,590 Speaker 2: household servants that are working in the employ of the 492 00:27:24,630 --> 00:27:29,119 Speaker 2: king or whatever. He said that wasn't the case. 10,000 493 00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:33,040 Speaker 2: talents was the equivalent. He said it's always difficult to 494 00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:36,280 Speaker 2: get the equivalency of how much that was worth then 495 00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:41,420 Speaker 2: compared to now. But it was maybe hundreds of millions 496 00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:44,940 Speaker 2: of dollars. Wow. Okay. And that wasn't something that a 497 00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:50,350 Speaker 2: normal household servant would have incurred. So what we have 498 00:27:50,430 --> 00:27:55,030 Speaker 2: here is the king, who is the master in the story, 499 00:27:55,650 --> 00:27:59,690 Speaker 2: and this servant would be something like a regional governor. 500 00:27:59,890 --> 00:28:01,840 Speaker 1: So it would have been a very important leader. 501 00:28:01,859 --> 00:28:02,600 Speaker 2: Very important person. 502 00:28:02,619 --> 00:28:02,980 Speaker 1: Who had control. 503 00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:10,840 Speaker 2: Over a lot of the resources, money, and the resources 504 00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:13,879 Speaker 2: and money that were being used by this local governor 505 00:28:14,420 --> 00:28:20,410 Speaker 2: were the king's resources. And so when in a situation 506 00:28:20,530 --> 00:28:24,830 Speaker 2: like this, when that governor has lost that money, either 507 00:28:24,869 --> 00:28:30,639 Speaker 2: through fraud, misappropriation, whatever it is, it puts in jeopardy 508 00:28:31,300 --> 00:28:36,820 Speaker 2: the whole viability of the kingdom. And yet... the King 509 00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:42,240 Speaker 2: forgave it all. So many times I just, I know 510 00:28:42,860 --> 00:28:46,550 Speaker 2: I've been forgiven it all. And yet when I see 511 00:28:46,910 --> 00:28:53,290 Speaker 2: one thing that you've done, I am unwilling to go, 512 00:28:53,310 --> 00:28:58,800 Speaker 2: I forgive. I'm going to move on. I'm going to 513 00:28:58,860 --> 00:29:03,520 Speaker 2: let it go. Instead I go and I, put you 514 00:29:03,670 --> 00:29:08,580 Speaker 2: into your prison of the silent treatment and not talking 515 00:29:08,660 --> 00:29:12,320 Speaker 2: to you for a day or two. Well, you don't 516 00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:14,620 Speaker 2: do that anymore. I don't, but I used to. I 517 00:29:15,380 --> 00:29:15,860 Speaker 2: used to. 518 00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:20,310 Speaker 1: Now, thankfully, you've gotten it down to a few hours, 519 00:29:20,570 --> 00:29:22,850 Speaker 1: sometimes a few minutes, or sometimes you even talk yourself 520 00:29:22,950 --> 00:29:23,890 Speaker 1: out of it before. 521 00:29:24,090 --> 00:29:29,510 Speaker 2: Right, and it's because the Holy Spirit has been working 522 00:29:29,630 --> 00:29:31,130 Speaker 2: on me over all those years. 523 00:29:31,510 --> 00:29:35,760 Speaker 1: Wow. And so that's an example of looking for things 524 00:29:35,820 --> 00:29:37,040 Speaker 1: that you need to forget. 525 00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:37,320 Speaker 2: Sure. 526 00:29:37,340 --> 00:29:38,430 Speaker 1: Exactly. 527 00:29:38,470 --> 00:29:38,750 Speaker 2: Wow. 528 00:29:38,850 --> 00:29:41,700 Speaker 1: Okay. Yeah, that makes sense. that makes sense. One of 529 00:29:41,740 --> 00:29:46,640 Speaker 1: the things that is so crucial here is to recognize, 530 00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:51,420 Speaker 1: you know, we're called to believe the best. We're called 531 00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:54,260 Speaker 1: to work on what we're doing. You know, these are 532 00:29:54,540 --> 00:29:57,830 Speaker 1: items four and five here. And we have to recognize 533 00:29:57,990 --> 00:30:02,920 Speaker 1: that not... believing the best of your spouse's intentions. If there's, 534 00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:06,300 Speaker 1: if your spouse loves you not believing the best of 535 00:30:06,340 --> 00:30:11,200 Speaker 1: those intentions itself can be really hurtful to them because 536 00:30:11,220 --> 00:30:14,370 Speaker 1: they're trying and trying and trying, and maybe they're not 537 00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:17,030 Speaker 1: doing it perfectly and they don't know what you need. 538 00:30:17,070 --> 00:30:19,790 Speaker 1: They don't know your love language. Like you didn't handle 539 00:30:19,830 --> 00:30:24,970 Speaker 1: it correctly. And yet if you believe that they care 540 00:30:25,030 --> 00:30:28,770 Speaker 1: about you and excuse me, if you don't believe that 541 00:30:28,790 --> 00:30:32,050 Speaker 1: they care, that itself can be so harmful. 542 00:30:32,830 --> 00:30:36,390 Speaker 2: And the thing is, when they are trying, as you say, 543 00:30:36,490 --> 00:30:40,880 Speaker 2: legitimately trying, let's go back to that small wins in 544 00:30:41,020 --> 00:30:45,719 Speaker 2: part one of this podcast. How important it is as a, 545 00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:50,400 Speaker 2: in that case, it was a business manager to affirm 546 00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:55,110 Speaker 2: those actions and those small wins for the person who 547 00:30:55,160 --> 00:31:01,209 Speaker 2: was taking them okay because it creates this positive emotional 548 00:31:01,310 --> 00:31:06,340 Speaker 2: feeling so if i want you to be continuing to 549 00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:09,920 Speaker 2: do the things that you're trying to do to make 550 00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:13,480 Speaker 2: me you know to build me up and feel loved 551 00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:18,730 Speaker 2: i need to observe those recognize it and affirm you 552 00:31:19,090 --> 00:31:22,800 Speaker 2: in that instead of just going that's nice Or just 553 00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:23,700 Speaker 2: not even noticing. 554 00:31:24,020 --> 00:31:27,140 Speaker 1: Okay. I'm going to mention something. This happened at an event, 555 00:31:27,180 --> 00:31:29,740 Speaker 1: a women's event. And I'm not going to say when, 556 00:31:29,790 --> 00:31:32,370 Speaker 1: because I don't want to like make anybody be identified here. 557 00:31:32,660 --> 00:31:33,010 Speaker 2: Sure, sure. 558 00:31:33,030 --> 00:31:34,710 Speaker 1: So I was speaking at a women's event and I 559 00:31:34,750 --> 00:31:40,070 Speaker 1: was sharing a story about the importance of words of praise. Okay. 560 00:31:40,470 --> 00:31:43,630 Speaker 1: And the story I told is something that happened when 561 00:31:43,670 --> 00:31:46,890 Speaker 1: we were doing the research for the kindness challenge and 562 00:31:46,930 --> 00:31:50,310 Speaker 1: the 30 day kindness challenge, which we're going to put 563 00:31:50,350 --> 00:31:52,940 Speaker 1: in the show notes so that everybody like knows what 564 00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:57,790 Speaker 1: we're talking about. Um, but this woman, the, the story 565 00:31:58,070 --> 00:32:02,030 Speaker 1: was that I told was the importance of saying a 566 00:32:02,370 --> 00:32:04,930 Speaker 1: words of praise at least once a day. That was 567 00:32:04,970 --> 00:32:08,360 Speaker 1: part of the 30 day kindness challenge. And a woman 568 00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:10,520 Speaker 1: came up to me and she was like, look, I, 569 00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:13,700 Speaker 1: I can be polite to my husband. I can not 570 00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:16,520 Speaker 1: be mean to him. But those things that you said 571 00:32:16,580 --> 00:32:19,160 Speaker 1: about sharing words of praise, at least once a day, 572 00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:22,969 Speaker 1: she's like, you don't know Henry. Like, he's a difficult person. 573 00:32:23,030 --> 00:32:24,270 Speaker 1: And so what I'm going to do, and she had 574 00:32:24,290 --> 00:32:26,910 Speaker 1: this little notebook and she's like, I am going to 575 00:32:26,950 --> 00:32:29,600 Speaker 1: write down anything that I see that he does well, 576 00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:32,320 Speaker 1: so that maybe I can bank it for the next day. 577 00:32:32,340 --> 00:32:35,940 Speaker 1: And I'm like, Oh dear. And so she comes up 578 00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:38,980 Speaker 1: to me two weeks later and she really, truly looks 579 00:32:39,020 --> 00:32:42,640 Speaker 1: like a different person. Like her countenance is completely different. 580 00:32:43,340 --> 00:32:47,190 Speaker 1: And she shows me her list and she says, look 581 00:32:47,230 --> 00:32:50,360 Speaker 1: at what happened. And she said, day one, This is 582 00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:53,040 Speaker 1: what she wrote on her list. She said, day one, 583 00:32:53,380 --> 00:32:54,900 Speaker 1: he held the door for me at church and he 584 00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:57,020 Speaker 1: mowed the lawn. Those are the two items on her list. 585 00:32:57,060 --> 00:32:58,660 Speaker 1: So she said, I said, thank you for the door. 586 00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:00,710 Speaker 1: And I was going to hold the lawn for the 587 00:33:00,750 --> 00:33:02,610 Speaker 1: next day. So I can say thank you for something 588 00:33:02,650 --> 00:33:05,470 Speaker 1: the next day. And then she turned to day two 589 00:33:05,550 --> 00:33:09,790 Speaker 1: in the notebook. And it said it had five things listed. 590 00:33:10,750 --> 00:33:14,300 Speaker 1: And then day three had 11 things listed. And she said, 591 00:33:14,450 --> 00:33:17,960 Speaker 1: I never had to use my bank. I had no 592 00:33:18,100 --> 00:33:22,010 Speaker 1: idea that. how much I was focusing on the negative 593 00:33:22,550 --> 00:33:25,250 Speaker 1: rather than all the good things that he was doing. 594 00:33:25,310 --> 00:33:28,560 Speaker 1: It just, I, I was, I wasn't being hit by 595 00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:31,680 Speaker 1: those things because maybe it wasn't her love language or whatever. 596 00:33:32,500 --> 00:33:34,840 Speaker 1: And so I told that story at this women's event 597 00:33:36,260 --> 00:33:38,420 Speaker 1: and a woman came up to me in the lobby 598 00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:43,030 Speaker 1: at the book table and she said, and again, I 599 00:33:43,070 --> 00:33:45,990 Speaker 1: got to be careful because I don't want to identify anybody. 600 00:33:46,850 --> 00:33:51,060 Speaker 1: And she said, that story, that you told, that was 601 00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:55,780 Speaker 1: for me. And she said, I have called a divorce lawyer. 602 00:33:57,220 --> 00:34:00,850 Speaker 1: And she said, I didn't know when I was going 603 00:34:00,870 --> 00:34:05,190 Speaker 1: to pull the trigger, but I've already, you know, got 604 00:34:05,230 --> 00:34:07,030 Speaker 1: the divorce lawyer that I know that I was going 605 00:34:07,050 --> 00:34:11,550 Speaker 1: to use. And she said, when you said that, it 606 00:34:11,590 --> 00:34:14,580 Speaker 1: was like God opened my eyes and I realized how 607 00:34:14,860 --> 00:34:18,670 Speaker 1: often I do that exact thing. And she said, for example, 608 00:34:18,850 --> 00:34:23,690 Speaker 1: just yesterday, she said, my husband brought me flowers and 609 00:34:23,930 --> 00:34:26,270 Speaker 1: I am not a flowers person. And all I could 610 00:34:26,310 --> 00:34:29,319 Speaker 1: think of is, yeah, great. Now something else I have 611 00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:31,100 Speaker 1: to take care of because you're not going to notice 612 00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:34,040 Speaker 1: that the petals are drooping everywhere and they're falling and 613 00:34:34,380 --> 00:34:36,400 Speaker 1: the water needs to be put in the jar. And 614 00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:38,000 Speaker 1: I'm going to have to do that. I'm going to 615 00:34:38,020 --> 00:34:41,009 Speaker 1: have to keep the flowers tended and put the water 616 00:34:41,050 --> 00:34:44,200 Speaker 1: in the vase and great. Thanks so much. I'm going 617 00:34:44,260 --> 00:34:46,320 Speaker 1: to have to do this. And she said, it didn't 618 00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:51,279 Speaker 1: occur to me. He's doing this because he loves me. 619 00:34:51,300 --> 00:34:55,160 Speaker 1: Like he's, that's not my love language. It's not what 620 00:34:55,260 --> 00:34:58,640 Speaker 1: hits me, but that is what he's doing. He's doing 621 00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:01,850 Speaker 1: that out of care, not to be obnoxious and make 622 00:35:01,890 --> 00:35:05,430 Speaker 1: me have to tend flowers in the kitchen. And, and 623 00:35:05,489 --> 00:35:09,469 Speaker 1: she said, I have so much work. I have to 624 00:35:09,510 --> 00:35:14,420 Speaker 1: do to believe the best. of his intentions towards me. And, 625 00:35:14,540 --> 00:35:16,680 Speaker 1: and the good thing is, again, we're talking about these 626 00:35:16,820 --> 00:35:21,200 Speaker 1: little things. You switch the way you're thinking. It does 627 00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:24,130 Speaker 1: change that. Like you will start to see that everywhere. 628 00:35:25,410 --> 00:35:32,680 Speaker 2: Well, I love the, honestly, the practice of doing this, 629 00:35:33,300 --> 00:35:36,200 Speaker 2: of not seeing those things and focusing on those things 630 00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:39,650 Speaker 2: that do drive you crazy. Okay. It frees up a 631 00:35:39,730 --> 00:35:43,810 Speaker 2: ton of bandwidth in your brain and in your heart. Yeah. 632 00:35:43,830 --> 00:35:47,580 Speaker 2: Because when you are ruminating on those things, it's not 633 00:35:47,620 --> 00:35:53,180 Speaker 2: like it's a joyful experience. So there is some self-interest 634 00:35:53,469 --> 00:35:57,080 Speaker 2: even in this. Yeah. You know, of not doing that. Okay, 635 00:35:57,120 --> 00:35:57,660 Speaker 2: step six. 636 00:35:58,020 --> 00:36:00,040 Speaker 1: And we probably need to wrap this up quickly. 637 00:36:00,060 --> 00:36:00,460 Speaker 2: Yeah, quickly. 638 00:36:00,500 --> 00:36:01,540 Speaker 1: This one's a simple one. 639 00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:01,840 Speaker 2: Yeah. 640 00:36:01,860 --> 00:36:02,610 Speaker 1: We can do this simply. 641 00:36:02,620 --> 00:36:04,810 Speaker 2: So what's step six? 642 00:36:04,969 --> 00:36:08,230 Speaker 1: For creating a great marriage, this is something so small, 643 00:36:08,330 --> 00:36:11,230 Speaker 1: but it's so huge, which is to be kind no 644 00:36:11,270 --> 00:36:15,420 Speaker 1: matter what. Be kind no matter what. It is so 645 00:36:15,780 --> 00:36:18,840 Speaker 1: easy to say things to a spouse. 646 00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:21,299 Speaker 2: Okay. I was going to say, it's so easy to 647 00:36:21,340 --> 00:36:23,660 Speaker 2: be kind. I thought that's what you were going to say. 648 00:36:23,780 --> 00:36:26,719 Speaker 1: It's so easy for me to say things to you 649 00:36:26,780 --> 00:36:30,359 Speaker 1: in a tone that I would never say to a friend. 650 00:36:30,390 --> 00:36:30,589 Speaker 2: Yeah. 651 00:36:31,850 --> 00:36:33,810 Speaker 1: And I mean, like, you know, in a way, I 652 00:36:34,190 --> 00:36:38,750 Speaker 1: think we all have a tendency maybe to do that. Yeah. 653 00:36:38,989 --> 00:36:41,690 Speaker 1: And yet, as we were doing the research for the 654 00:36:41,690 --> 00:36:48,049 Speaker 1: 30 Day Kindness Challenge, we actually found that kindness, including 655 00:36:48,110 --> 00:36:53,330 Speaker 1: in our tone... is absolutely one of those things that 656 00:36:53,370 --> 00:36:57,779 Speaker 1: when you get into a difficult situation, it reduces defensiveness. 657 00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:04,100 Speaker 1: Like everything is better because of you choosing to be kind. 658 00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:08,420 Speaker 2: Yeah, I get it. And I'm with you in it. 659 00:37:09,610 --> 00:37:12,830 Speaker 2: I don't know what we can say beyond that. 660 00:37:12,950 --> 00:37:16,450 Speaker 1: Well, one thing I should mention is that we found 661 00:37:16,650 --> 00:37:19,549 Speaker 1: in the research for the 30-Day Kindness Challenge that we 662 00:37:19,870 --> 00:37:23,730 Speaker 1: all do think we are kinder than we are. And 663 00:37:23,830 --> 00:37:27,850 Speaker 1: so being able to recognize, and this is one reason 664 00:37:27,890 --> 00:37:31,300 Speaker 1: we recommend doing the 30-Day Kindness Challenge, and again, I'll 665 00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:34,290 Speaker 1: put that in the show notes. these, we do these 666 00:37:34,469 --> 00:37:38,060 Speaker 1: same three little things every day for 30 days. And 667 00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:41,960 Speaker 1: it is like, wow, it retrains you so much because 668 00:37:41,980 --> 00:37:45,879 Speaker 1: you realize, whoa, I had no idea. I was so sarcastic. 669 00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:49,060 Speaker 1: For example, like I think of sarcasm as a superpower 670 00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:53,049 Speaker 1: and Ooh, maybe it's actually sometimes hurting things. Um, and 671 00:37:53,130 --> 00:37:57,750 Speaker 1: so I think that that's crucial for people who want 672 00:37:57,830 --> 00:37:58,830 Speaker 1: a change. Yeah. 673 00:37:59,070 --> 00:37:59,450 Speaker 2: Okay. 674 00:37:59,469 --> 00:37:59,730 Speaker 1: Okay. 675 00:38:00,140 --> 00:38:02,930 Speaker 2: So our one big thing that we always want to 676 00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:04,030 Speaker 2: leave people with. 677 00:38:04,300 --> 00:38:05,050 Speaker 1: Yes. 678 00:38:05,550 --> 00:38:07,569 Speaker 2: What would it be for you? 679 00:38:09,310 --> 00:38:14,330 Speaker 1: I think for me, if I was to put like 680 00:38:15,630 --> 00:38:20,069 Speaker 1: the thing that I am the most struck by is 681 00:38:22,050 --> 00:38:27,350 Speaker 1: how hurtful it is to you if I don't believe. 682 00:38:27,820 --> 00:38:31,440 Speaker 1: the best of your intentions towards me of how hard 683 00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:36,860 Speaker 1: you and so many other spouses are trying to care 684 00:38:36,930 --> 00:38:39,870 Speaker 1: for their spouse and just not being given the credit 685 00:38:39,890 --> 00:38:43,550 Speaker 1: for that or assuming the worst or whatever, how hurtful 686 00:38:43,590 --> 00:38:45,160 Speaker 1: and how dangerous that is. 687 00:38:45,170 --> 00:38:49,270 Speaker 2: So that's my one thing. I like that. It's interesting 688 00:38:49,469 --> 00:38:54,299 Speaker 2: how hurtful it is to the spouse as opposed to, 689 00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:59,120 Speaker 2: it's obviously hurtful to your own wellbeing, all of that, 690 00:38:59,239 --> 00:39:02,100 Speaker 2: but how hurtful it is to the spouse. I like that. Yeah. 691 00:39:02,550 --> 00:39:05,730 Speaker 1: And the choice to believe the best of your intentions, 692 00:39:06,410 --> 00:39:11,250 Speaker 1: how we've seen this statistically is how big of a 693 00:39:11,250 --> 00:39:15,610 Speaker 1: deal that is as the top habit of the happiest couples. Okay. 694 00:39:15,810 --> 00:39:18,969 Speaker 1: All right. So I hope this episode was helpful. And 695 00:39:19,170 --> 00:39:21,910 Speaker 1: if you, if you're not a subscriber to our podcast, 696 00:39:21,969 --> 00:39:25,430 Speaker 1: please subscribe. So you never miss an episode. If you 697 00:39:25,469 --> 00:39:29,239 Speaker 1: know someone who, would be encouraged by the conversation that 698 00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:32,400 Speaker 1: you just heard who maybe needs it would learn something 699 00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:35,840 Speaker 1: from it could pass it along please share today's episode 700 00:39:35,860 --> 00:39:38,989 Speaker 1: with them on social media and tag us thanks so 701 00:39:39,010 --> 00:39:44,120 Speaker 1: much Thanks for listening to I Wish You Could Hear This. 702 00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:48,280 Speaker 1: Remember to subscribe to our podcast. And as always, forward 703 00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:51,530 Speaker 1: today's audio or video link to a friend, counselor, or 704 00:39:51,590 --> 00:39:57,810 Speaker 1: pastor who would be encouraged. I just want to take 705 00:39:57,850 --> 00:40:00,569 Speaker 1: a second to thank the team at Life Audio for 706 00:40:00,610 --> 00:40:03,790 Speaker 1: their partnership with us on the podcast. If you go 707 00:40:03,830 --> 00:40:08,440 Speaker 1: to lifeaudio.com You will find dozens of other faith-centered podcasts 708 00:40:08,500 --> 00:40:12,859 Speaker 1: in their network. They've got shows about prayer, Bible study, parenting, 709 00:40:13,250 --> 00:40:13,609 Speaker 1: and more.