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Speaker 1: Life Audio.

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Speaker 2: You are listening to The Becket Cook Show with your host,

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Speaker 2: Beckett Cook. For more information about Beckett and his ministry,

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Speaker 2: visit his website at Beckettcook dot com. To help support

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Speaker 2: the podcast, visit Patreon dot com slash the Beckett Cook Show.

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Speaker 2: Please consider subscribing to the podcast and leaving a five

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Speaker 2: star rating.

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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, welcome to the show. I have a special

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Speaker 1: guest today, Jeff Johnson, and he has an amazing story

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Speaker 1: of how God saved him out of homosexuality. And there's

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Speaker 1: a big twist at the end of this episode, so

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Speaker 1: make sure you watch to the end and I'm excited

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Speaker 1: to hear his full story. But first award from our sponsor,

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Speaker 1: Welcome Jeff Johnson.

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Speaker 3: Hey, thank you so much. I'm so honored to get

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Speaker 3: to talk to you today and beyond it's awesome.

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Speaker 1: I'm glad to have you on. And you're coming. Where

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Speaker 1: are you in Georgia?

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Speaker 3: In Atlanta?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Atlanta, atl that's right here.

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Speaker 3: Ten years yes.

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Speaker 1: So you have an amazing story and in the intro

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Speaker 1: I mentioned that there's there's gonna be a twist at

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Speaker 1: the end. We're going to talk about well, we're not

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Speaker 1: going to reveal that. I like that.

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Speaker 3: I like that. I want to know the twist.

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Speaker 1: So first let's start off with where did you grow up?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? I grew up in Texas A lot of I

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Speaker 3: was born in Dallas, Texas. Family from West Texas, like

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Speaker 3: small towns West Texas. I spent a lot of time there.

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Speaker 3: But my family, when I was very early, we moved

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Speaker 3: to Las Cruces, New Mexico. So New Mexico is a

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Speaker 3: lot of people in they're like, where are you from.

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Speaker 3: I'm like New Mexico and they're like, oh, Mexico. No,

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Speaker 3: New Mexico. It's actually a state, like no one else

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Speaker 3: is from New Mexico.

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Speaker 1: But I know it's the new version of Mexico, the

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Speaker 1: new one.

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Speaker 3: Yes Texas. So Las Cruses the south end of New Mexico.

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Speaker 3: I grew up there, went to you know, started element

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Speaker 3: elementary school, middle school, high school. There is home base

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Speaker 3: for me.

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Speaker 1: And so what happened? How how old were you when

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Speaker 1: you were a kid when you started to realize you

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Speaker 1: were same sex attracted?

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Speaker 3: Yeah it's interesting because as far back as I can remember,

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Speaker 3: that was how I thought there was. I had a

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Speaker 3: kind of a moment in my childhood that something that uh,

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Speaker 3: you know, I've done therapy before it and kind of

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Speaker 3: try to figure out there is something happened with like

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Speaker 3: a neighbor friend that wasn't he was older than me,

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Speaker 3: but we had were playing together and it turned sexual

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Speaker 3: and and there was and that is a memory that

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Speaker 3: began like triggered something in me that just began this

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Speaker 3: process for me of back then it was just shame.

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Speaker 3: Like it began as shame and hiding and terrified and

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Speaker 3: started my mind thinking looking at guys. But I was

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Speaker 3: I mean I was very young, Like I've tried to

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Speaker 3: figure that out, like five six, like very very young

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Speaker 3: when this all was happening, and I just remembered all

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Speaker 3: throughout like elementary school, like there was there were moments

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Speaker 3: that I was like very I was very like attract

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Speaker 3: I was more attracted to my friends' dads than and

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Speaker 3: I remember thinking that and being really guilty for that,

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Speaker 3: feeling guilt for that. And so I had a moment

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Speaker 3: that later in uh, later in I don't know if

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Speaker 3: it was like fifth grade, when I actually told my mom,

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Speaker 3: like I went to my mom and told her, like, hey,

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Speaker 3: this is something that happened in uh this treehouse that

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Speaker 3: with our neighbor and kind of recounted all that because

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Speaker 3: I was just full of guilt as a kid, and

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Speaker 3: so I recounted all that with her, and that's where

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Speaker 3: the first like I told her, this is what I'm

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Speaker 3: feeling and shame, and I didn't know how to put

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Speaker 3: words around it, but I was just telling her the

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Speaker 3: experience and that. But that that was a very pivotal

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Speaker 3: part of my whole story when I was very young,

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Speaker 3: of how this all kind of transpired and how my

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Speaker 3: mind started working. So yeah, that was that was very

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Speaker 3: early in my life.

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Speaker 1: It's interesting you you say that. I that just reminds

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Speaker 1: me of something. I have to tell the story because

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Speaker 1: it just happened yesterday. I as many people know, and

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Speaker 1: I wrote about this in my book, I was molested

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Speaker 1: by my friend's father when I spent the night at

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Speaker 1: his house when I was nine years old. Man, and

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Speaker 1: I I mean, it was that event has affected my

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Speaker 1: whole life forever, sure, but I've I hadn't been able

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Speaker 1: to get a hold of my friend after I got saved.

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Speaker 1: I wanted to get a hold of him and tell him.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, I just felt this kind of burden

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Speaker 1: to tell him what happened, and I could never reach

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Speaker 1: him because he's not on social media for whatever reason.

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Speaker 1: And let's just call him Tommy. I'm going to use

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Speaker 1: the name Tommy. So yesterday I was thinking the thought

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Speaker 1: of him came into my mind. His father's dead now,

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Speaker 1: his father died like thirty years ago, but Tommy came

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Speaker 1: into my mind yesterday, and I was like, gosh, I

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Speaker 1: really want to talk to him. I want to tell

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Speaker 1: him what happened. And so I just googled his day.

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Speaker 1: I typed in his name and his in Dallas, and

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Speaker 1: his phone number popped up, his cell number, and I

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Speaker 1: was like, wait, that's interesting, is this real? And I

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Speaker 1: called the number. He didn't answer it first, and then

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Speaker 1: I called right back and then he answered and I said,

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Speaker 1: is this Tommy from Dallas from Jesuit and blah blah blah,

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Speaker 1: and he's like yeah, and he had no idea who

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Speaker 1: I was and what was going on. I'm like, it's

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Speaker 1: Beckett from from Jesuit.

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Speaker 3: Yes.

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Speaker 2: Oh.

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Speaker 1: He's like, hey, back, well, how's it going? And I'm

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Speaker 1: like good, it was okay. So telling him this was

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Speaker 1: the most awkward thing I've ever had. It's like, how

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Speaker 1: do you lead into that it's like, how do you

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Speaker 1: lead into this? And so I'm like, so I said,

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Speaker 1: you know, first I talked about, you know, how I

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Speaker 1: became a Christian sixteen years ago and like my life

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Speaker 1: has you know, been radically changed, and and he was

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Speaker 1: sort of like I could tell he wasn't a Christian,

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Speaker 1: but he was tracking with me. And then I I said, well,

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Speaker 1: and I want to tell you something that happened when

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Speaker 1: I was a kid with when I spent the night

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Speaker 1: at your house, your dad molested me. And he was

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Speaker 1: like oh, and he goes and he said, why didn't

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Speaker 1: you call the cops.

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Speaker 3: I'm like, wow, yeah, You're like that wasn't my first

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Speaker 3: thought on that.

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Speaker 1: Like I was like, well, I mean I don't know,

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Speaker 1: but like you know, I was too young to think

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Speaker 1: about that. But and then he you know, basically I

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Speaker 1: was like, uh, yeah, if if I had told my

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Speaker 1: dad about it at the time, my dad would have

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Speaker 1: killed your dad or had your dad killed because my

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Speaker 1: dad was a lawyer and he had like he had

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Speaker 1: clients who would have killed him literally killed.

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Speaker 2: Yes.

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Speaker 1: Yes, And so he was like he was basically on

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Speaker 1: my side. He was all for it. He was like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you should have done it like you should have like, wow,

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Speaker 1: he deserved it if he did that to you. And

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Speaker 1: then I asked Tommy, I was like, did he do

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Speaker 1: anything with you? And He's like no, and and so

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Speaker 1: it was so weird. It was kind of like I

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Speaker 1: feel like it was almost like the last piece of

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Speaker 1: the puzzle, kind of just letting that, letting him know

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Speaker 1: that information. So it's like like out off of me

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Speaker 1: and like he knows now. And anyway, it just felt

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Speaker 1: like like a huge relief when after I told.

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Speaker 3: Him, Yeah, that's what I was gonna ask, So like

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Speaker 3: for you, that just felt like relief of like it's

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Speaker 3: out there. It wasn't necessarily his response that mattered as

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Speaker 3: much as you just being able to say this and.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, like I just needed to say it to him.

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Speaker 1: And then I told him after I, uh revealed this thing,

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Speaker 1: huge thing. I told him about how I got saved.

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Speaker 1: I told him the whole story, and then I told

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Speaker 1: him about the Gospel and I and I said, you know,

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Speaker 1: I really I said, Tommy, like this is the most

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Speaker 1: important thing in the universe, like you having a relationship

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Speaker 1: with Christ And is he a believer? I don't think.

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Speaker 1: I don't think. No, he's not. But but he did

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Speaker 1: say I said, you please, I urge you to to

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Speaker 1: get a Bible. And he's like, oh, I have a

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Speaker 1: Bible at home. And I was like, oh, good, like

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Speaker 1: read John and the Book of Acts or something, and

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Speaker 1: and I said, and get my book because you're I

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Speaker 1: write about your dad and my book I don't name him,

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Speaker 1: but I write about him. Right. And so anyway, it

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Speaker 1: turns out he's married and he has two kids. And

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Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, that's one of the reasons I

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Speaker 1: wanted to I've been wanting to get a hold of

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Speaker 1: you is because I wanted to make sure that you

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Speaker 1: were protecting your kids from your dad. So anyway, all

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Speaker 1: that to say is just was like a huge deal.

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Speaker 3: That is a huge piece of the puzzle of your life,

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Speaker 3: like to be able to do that, and that's that's crazy.

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Speaker 1: I wanted to do it with his dad. But his dad,

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Speaker 1: you know, I died thirty years ago, so he was

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Speaker 1: by the time when I got after I got saved,

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Speaker 1: I found out his dad was dead, So there was

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Speaker 1: no way for me to to have that.

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Speaker 3: Conversation, right. But anyway, him to go to bed last

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Speaker 3: night thinking about.

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Speaker 1: But I told him I said. I told him, I said,

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Speaker 1: I have forgiven your father, and like, you know, it's

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Speaker 1: no longer. I don't hold anything against him, and that's awesome.

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Speaker 1: But anyway, it was crazy crazy. But anyway, let's get

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Speaker 1: back to you. We'll be right back after this short break.

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Speaker 1: So you, uh so what happened in in high school

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Speaker 1: and college? You you started to kind of live this

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Speaker 1: double life, Like I was doing the same thing in

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Speaker 1: high school and college, living a double life. Like talk

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Speaker 1: about that and like how you were pursuing you know, say,

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Speaker 1: sexual encounters and stuff.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it was not I didn't like act it out

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Speaker 3: in this until my freshman year in high school became

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Speaker 3: good friends with the guy and at a sleepover, Uh,

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Speaker 3: it just turned sexual and and I entered into this

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Speaker 3: like was a very valid relationship, but I didn't have

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Speaker 3: words around that. I was just you know, enjoying his

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Speaker 3: company and we were acting out in this. And that

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Speaker 3: was through high school and you know, and when you're

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Speaker 3: doing that in high school and there's no words around

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Speaker 3: it and you don't talk about it, but it's just

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Speaker 3: an encounter and it's just like sexual, it leaves you

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Speaker 3: kind of feeling crazy on like not really thinking it's

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Speaker 3: a relationship. But then like we ended up, it was

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Speaker 3: weird at the end. We kind of went he was

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Speaker 3: in a year older and he went on to college,

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Speaker 3: and I just felt like heartbroken, and I was like,

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Speaker 3: now I kind of am able to claim what that was. Like, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: it was heartbreak. It was a relationship that needed to

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Speaker 3: have some closure and ending, but in the moment, it

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Speaker 3: just felt very messy, and no one knew like this

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Speaker 3: was very much like it wasn't. I never was like

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Speaker 3: living an open gay lifestyle or it was. I would

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Speaker 3: never have called myself that. It just was all behind

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Speaker 3: closed doors, hidden secrecy. And so then I go off

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Speaker 3: to college and and kind of just went to college.

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Speaker 3: And I went to Texas Tech University in Lubbock, Texas,

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Speaker 3: full of farmers and and uh just a country guy,

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Speaker 3: you know. I felt like the right place for me

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Speaker 3: to fit in. And so I go there and I

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Speaker 3: was in my head was like I'm starting over, Like

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Speaker 3: I want to start completely over. I don't want to,

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Speaker 3: you know, continue that way of living. I and I

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Speaker 3: had grown up going to church, and so there was

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Speaker 3: an element of God in my story, but it was

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Speaker 3: very much religion of just going to church. It was

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Speaker 3: not relationship at all. I but I, but I still

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Speaker 3: tried to withhold the good moral standings of what a Christian,

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Speaker 3: what I believed a Christian should do and and act like.

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Speaker 3: And at this point, you know, it's this topic is

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Speaker 3: definitely not discussed in the church back then especially, and

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Speaker 3: so like I didn't have any kind of guard, I

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Speaker 3: didn't have any kind of teaching or discipleship around this.

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Speaker 3: So like then, I'm in college. I went on a

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Speaker 3: music scholarship. I'm I'm a saying, So I went on

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Speaker 3: a vocal scholarship, and I was just embarrassed to like

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Speaker 3: be inquire and do the vocal thing there because I didn't,

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Speaker 3: you know, I had wrestled my whole life. I'm not

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Speaker 3: a sports guy. I did not fit in that crowd,

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Speaker 3: and so I just wanted to start over and be like, hey,

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Speaker 3: I'll try to pleasure fraternity and try to like hang

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Speaker 3: with guys and like recreate my identity here at college.

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Speaker 3: Well that quickly fell short, and I started acting out

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Speaker 3: with guys in college. And that happened for a couple

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Speaker 3: you know, for freshman, sophomore or junior year again, all secret,

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Speaker 3: all behind closed doors, sneaking around nothing ever talked about

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Speaker 3: in the light. It was my junior year of college.

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Speaker 3: I went to a college like a collegiate conference called Passion.

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Speaker 3: It was something that like I had heard a lot about.

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Speaker 3: And so it's like this massive gathering of thousands of

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Speaker 3: college students gathering to worship and listen to people. We'll

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Speaker 3: talk about Jesus. And I got invited. So I went,

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Speaker 3: and I show up at this conference a few thousand

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Speaker 3: people in Austin, Texas in nineteen ninety eight. And so

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Speaker 3: I go to this conference and the person preaching, this

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Speaker 3: man Luis Giglio, is giving the gospel, and I'm just

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Speaker 3: it was as if my eyes were open for the

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Speaker 3: first time again. I grew up in church, but it

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Speaker 3: was the difference of knowing about God and knowing him

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Speaker 3: was what was happening in those days, those few days

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Speaker 3: of this conference.

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Speaker 1: And it's like that, what's the old what's the old

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Speaker 1: line about from here to here? It's like heart, yeah, yes, whatever,

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Speaker 1: I can't remember the exact quote.

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Speaker 3: Yes, it was all making sense clicking, And I was

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Speaker 3: just like at my life. I was like I'm surrendering

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Speaker 3: my life, like I lay everything down and in that time,

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Speaker 3: I was like, I'm never going to act out and

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Speaker 3: in any of my same sex desires again, and you know,

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Speaker 3: making all these promises to God like I'm not going

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Speaker 3: to do it. I'm gonna leave here and again left

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Speaker 3: that conference and started living a completely different life as

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Speaker 3: far as like my relationship with Jesus, like and like

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Speaker 3: reading the Bible and like knowing him and like all

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Speaker 3: about surrendering my life to him. But quickly my desires

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Speaker 3: overtook again and I started acting out, so like it

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Speaker 3: began another whole process of of the acting out that

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Speaker 3: I began once again. So it just became again another

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Speaker 3: thing of fighting my battle. But now Jesus was in

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Speaker 3: the mix, and I had something And I always say,

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Speaker 3: like my desires didn't change, but my allegiance to Jesus changed,

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Speaker 3: So I was I had a reason to fight it.

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Speaker 3: It was there was a reason for me to fight

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Speaker 3: it because I I I never you know, my experience

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Speaker 3: was I never woke up the next morning after acting

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Speaker 3: out in this and felt like yay, like I you

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Speaker 3: know good, I feel good. It was always the next

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Speaker 3: morning shame and secrecy and hiding, and and I had

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Speaker 3: become I'm so used to that that I started just

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Speaker 3: living that life like that narrative of I can have

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Speaker 3: two lives. I can have this life over here that

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Speaker 3: no one knows about, and then I can like do

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Speaker 3: this thing over here and like whatever that is my job,

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Speaker 3: you know, my normal life that people know me for,

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Speaker 3: but they don't know that side of me. And so

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Speaker 3: I began walking that out like that that my roads

301
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Speaker 3: diverged in two different ways, and so that happened. When

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Speaker 3: I left college, I moved to Dallas. I went to

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Speaker 3: Dallas and took a corporate job for a few years,

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Speaker 3: working for a company Eccentric as a consultant. I traveled

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Speaker 3: with accenture and and loved my job. But then I

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00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:41,920
Speaker 3: felt the Lord just like bringing me into ministry, like

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Speaker 3: calling me into I was very passionate about music my

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Speaker 3: whole life. I love singing. I loved a songwriting, and

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Speaker 3: so that was very much something that was part of

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Speaker 3: my life. But then I just there was a point

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Speaker 3: when I turned twenty five, I was like, I'm gonna

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Speaker 3: leave my corporate job and pursue like being a worship leader.

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Speaker 3: And I did that, and so then I left my job.

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Speaker 3: I started leading worship. I got a band together and

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Speaker 3: we started traveling leading worship. Now I'm a worship leader

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Speaker 3: battling this desire, still hiding in secrecy on the side.

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Speaker 1: Well wait, let me hold on one secd before you

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Speaker 1: get to that. We go back to after the Passion Conference.

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Speaker 1: It's right in Austin. What happened? Did you go back

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Speaker 1: to college and like get plugged into a church there

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Speaker 1: or that's.

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Speaker 3: A great point, great point. Yeah, I went back for

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Speaker 3: my senior year. I started going to an awesome church

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Speaker 3: in Lubbock, Texas, and I started I started playing piano,

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Speaker 3: like I was like, I'll play piano here in the

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Speaker 3: praise team at that time, you know, started playing for

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Speaker 3: them and really loved it and got to meet some

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Speaker 3: great people. And my senior year was definitely different because

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Speaker 3: of everything that had happened at this conference in my

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Speaker 3: relationship with Jesus now, so it was different. And I

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Speaker 3: was like playing music in church and like trying to

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Speaker 3: find my place in my foot within the church on

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Speaker 3: how I could serve as the church with the giftings

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Speaker 3: that I had with singing and playing piano and guitar.

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Speaker 3: So that was like where I Yeah, that began that

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Speaker 3: whole journey.

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Speaker 1: And so while you were in this church, no one

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Speaker 1: knew that you were struggling with this other.

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Speaker 3: Things, No one no.

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Speaker 1: And did your did your family ever know? Like when did?

341
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Speaker 3: Yeah? Not that the family, you know, going back to

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Speaker 3: my story a little bit, like from my childhood, when

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Speaker 3: I had told my mom when I was little about

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Speaker 3: like kind of like confessing some of my desires when

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Speaker 3: I was younger, you know, I was when I when

346
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Speaker 3: that happened. I say this with a lot of tenderness

347
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Speaker 3: and love, and because my parents were amazing. My parents

348
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Speaker 3: had both passed away in the last three years, and

349
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Speaker 3: I was very close to them and loved them. And

350
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Speaker 3: I always say, you know, my parents didn't have any

351
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Speaker 3: training in this. They have no idea what to do

352
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Speaker 3: when their son comes in and says, hey, these are

353
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Speaker 3: my desires, Like my parents came from, like their parents

354
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Speaker 3: were farmers and truck drivers, Like I understand this is

355
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Speaker 3: not on your radar. But we went to my The

356
00:19:03,119 --> 00:19:05,359
Speaker 3: answer in that was we went. They took me to

357
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Speaker 3: a pastor and had me journal what I was thinking

358
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Speaker 3: with this pastor that I had no relationship with and

359
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Speaker 3: did not know. And I just remember feeling really awkward like,

360
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Speaker 3: this is so weird. I'm like writing out thoughts but

361
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Speaker 3: I'm not. But then he was a going to read

362
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Speaker 3: this and like and it was I just remember that

363
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Speaker 3: being so awkward. And from then on we never talked

364
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Speaker 3: about it. So it was like a couple weeks of

365
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Speaker 3: seeing this pastor and then that shut down.

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Speaker 1: Nothing else that solved it. Yeah, and we just kept.

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Speaker 3: Walking through life and and yeah and and you know,

368
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Speaker 3: then then I find myself later in life, you know,

369
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Speaker 3: my senior in college, like, I'm in church doing this.

370
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Speaker 3: But no, to answer your question, no one knew, not

371
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Speaker 3: my I wasn't talking about with my parents. I wasn't

372
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Speaker 3: talking about with anyone. It was truly just all hidden

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Speaker 3: in secret.

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Speaker 1: And so okay, so go back to you. You're pursuing ministry,

375
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Speaker 1: music ministry and what talks about? What's what's going on

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Speaker 1: in that situation?

377
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Speaker 3: Yeah, And so I start, you know, I I leave

378
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Speaker 3: my corporate job, I start writing songs for the church.

379
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Speaker 3: I'm now traveling as with the worship team with a

380
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Speaker 3: worship band that I put together, and they were like

381
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Speaker 3: some of my best friends. And there was uh, in

382
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Speaker 3: this season, there is a girl that starts that that

383
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Speaker 3: that through church. This girl named Jordan like starts. Our

384
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Speaker 3: pastor introduced us and was like, you both lead worship.

385
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Speaker 3: She's a worship leader, you're a worship leader. Y'all should

386
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Speaker 3: like lead worship together and get to know each other.

387
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Speaker 3: And he had obvious plans, but that was not on

388
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Speaker 3: really on my radar obviously, Like I wasn't thinking about that.

389
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Speaker 3: So we started singing together and started like leading worship

390
00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:57,200
Speaker 3: together at a church in Dallas, and then I love

391
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Speaker 3: loved being with her. She was so fun, she like

392
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Speaker 3: became like my best friends. I was like, this is amazing,

393
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Speaker 3: Like we're doing this together. And then we started traveling together,

394
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Speaker 3: like I would bring her with us on the road

395
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Speaker 3: and we'd go travel only worship together. And so that's

396
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Speaker 3: what we started doing, you know, when I was in

397
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Speaker 3: my twenties, and.

398
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Speaker 1: Through that.

399
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Speaker 3: It became a thing where we actually started dating and

400
00:21:25,119 --> 00:21:28,399
Speaker 3: we kind of talked about, you know, being interested in

401
00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:31,400
Speaker 3: each other. And in my mind, I'm just thinking, like, yeah,

402
00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:35,000
Speaker 3: we can hang out and be together. But you know,

403
00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:37,520
Speaker 3: I didn't have marriage on my radar. I didn't have

404
00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:41,320
Speaker 3: kids on my radar. That was not that was not

405
00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:45,120
Speaker 3: something that I had thought about given my life story

406
00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:47,280
Speaker 3: like that. Nobody knews, so that was not on the radar,

407
00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:52,240
Speaker 3: and so we started dating, we started hanging out, we

408
00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:57,120
Speaker 3: started dating and being together a lot and ended up

409
00:21:57,480 --> 00:22:01,680
Speaker 3: having over the journey, we had a ten year day history.

410
00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:06,040
Speaker 3: So we broke up three times through this whole process.

411
00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:08,359
Speaker 3: And so the first time we'd break up and it

412
00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:10,760
Speaker 3: would be like, well, yeah, we're just a lot of excuses,

413
00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:13,359
Speaker 3: we're just not you know, not for each other. That's fine,

414
00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:16,199
Speaker 3: But then our worlds were still very much intertwined and

415
00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:19,160
Speaker 3: we would still see each other in lead worship, and

416
00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:23,680
Speaker 3: then we broke up again. And the third time, well,

417
00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:29,400
Speaker 3: the second time we broke up, she we were talking

418
00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:32,720
Speaker 3: about we were going through like a book together, and

419
00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:35,240
Speaker 3: she one of the questions in the book that we

420
00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:40,760
Speaker 3: were walking through together said something about like something about

421
00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:43,800
Speaker 3: your past, like as in your childhood, did anything happen

422
00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:47,840
Speaker 3: or something that triggered me, and her knowing me so well,

423
00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:51,400
Speaker 3: this time she was like, it seems like there's something there,

424
00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:55,320
Speaker 3: to which I was probably in that moment, very silent

425
00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:59,360
Speaker 3: and just like not saying anything. And she was very

426
00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:01,840
Speaker 3: gracious the fact that she didn't press me that moment,

427
00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:04,040
Speaker 3: but she did say I'm gonna give you a few

428
00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:06,879
Speaker 3: days and then we're gonna come back together, and I

429
00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:09,120
Speaker 3: want to hear what it is, and so I want

430
00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:11,520
Speaker 3: you to take time when you take space, but then

431
00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:12,920
Speaker 3: I want to hear what it is, and I want

432
00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:15,639
Speaker 3: you to tell me. So then for those few days,

433
00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:19,760
Speaker 3: I was panicked, thinking, I really love hanging out with

434
00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:24,000
Speaker 3: this girl. But I'm but how in the world would

435
00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:26,800
Speaker 3: this work if I told her what it truly is?

436
00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:28,600
Speaker 3: Like I just knew the story I wrote, wrote the

437
00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:30,439
Speaker 3: narrative in my head, like if I tell her she's

438
00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:33,000
Speaker 3: she's gonna leave, like she's gonna think it's gross. She's

439
00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:36,719
Speaker 3: gonna like think that that's so weird. And so we

440
00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:38,960
Speaker 3: met a few days later. We met at this really

441
00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:42,160
Speaker 3: special place for rest in Dallas and now it's really

442
00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:45,960
Speaker 3: special and we sat down and it was, you know, through.

443
00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:47,600
Speaker 1: A lot of what place was it, I mean I

444
00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:48,359
Speaker 1: grew up in Dallas.

445
00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:53,280
Speaker 3: Was yeah, it's in Lost Calenas. It's okay, there's like

446
00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:55,400
Speaker 3: this like little like like little pond in the middle

447
00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:57,159
Speaker 3: of all these office complex and stuff, like a like

448
00:23:57,200 --> 00:24:00,119
Speaker 3: a pond with like a a doc around it. And

449
00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:02,160
Speaker 3: like for some reason we found ourselves I was living

450
00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:04,439
Speaker 3: in Lost Cleaness corporate time, you know, so like that

451
00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:08,159
Speaker 3: was where we were, and I found myself there. I'm like,

452
00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:10,280
Speaker 3: why why lost Cleanness? You know, like now we'd always

453
00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:12,879
Speaker 3: start buying me Like, well, there's a special moment. So

454
00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:16,160
Speaker 3: I sat down with her and that was the first

455
00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:20,520
Speaker 3: time that I ever voiced out loud to someone, Hey,

456
00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:24,359
Speaker 3: this is my my thing is I'm I'm attracted to men,

457
00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:27,040
Speaker 3: I'm not attracted to women, and I have acted out

458
00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:31,200
Speaker 3: in that and I've lived a double life and that's

459
00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:34,800
Speaker 3: the reality of my story. And I expected in that

460
00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:38,800
Speaker 3: moment for her just like I said, gross, okay, great,

461
00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:42,680
Speaker 3: have a nice life. What I was met with was

462
00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:47,560
Speaker 3: the complete opposite of that. It was her words were,

463
00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:51,679
Speaker 3: I believe God has something for us, and I believe

464
00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:54,399
Speaker 3: that he has something in our story, and I'm not

465
00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:58,359
Speaker 3: going anywhere, and I'm with you in it and I

466
00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:01,120
Speaker 3: will help you and I'll be with ever we need

467
00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:04,000
Speaker 3: to whatever I need to be to help walk through

468
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:06,719
Speaker 3: this with you. That was shocking to me. I just

469
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:09,120
Speaker 3: all that night was was just a lot of tears

470
00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:11,159
Speaker 3: and a lot of like I can't believe that you

471
00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:14,080
Speaker 3: would say that, and that you're willing to do that,

472
00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:19,040
Speaker 3: and so it was it was truly like she was

473
00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:21,600
Speaker 3: God's grace to me, like in tangible form. And so

474
00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:25,719
Speaker 3: then we we actually went through counseling. We started counseling.

475
00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:28,639
Speaker 3: We were dating, but we started counseling, and we had

476
00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:30,600
Speaker 3: we had just actually started counseling, and so we were

477
00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:32,600
Speaker 3: like went to a session and we and it was

478
00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:35,679
Speaker 3: the second person I had told our counselor and sitting

479
00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:37,520
Speaker 3: with her next to me and said, this is kind

480
00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:40,800
Speaker 3: of what my life has looked like. And it felt

481
00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:43,199
Speaker 3: really weird because now the world's were starting to like

482
00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:47,440
Speaker 3: merge more together, and that felt really odd and awkward

483
00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:49,119
Speaker 3: to me because I didn't I didn't know how to

484
00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:53,400
Speaker 3: put these things together. They had always lived in compartmentalized boxes. Yeah,

485
00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:57,240
Speaker 3: And and so then we we started working through that

486
00:25:57,359 --> 00:26:01,320
Speaker 3: together and we started talking about the reality of that,

487
00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:03,560
Speaker 3: and I got real honest with her, and I told

488
00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:06,640
Speaker 3: her how my mind thought and the places that were

489
00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:11,040
Speaker 3: temptation to me and the things that I had done,

490
00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:16,680
Speaker 3: and the anonymous encounters and and all of that began

491
00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:22,440
Speaker 3: to unfold. So then we went through another season of dating.

492
00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:25,560
Speaker 3: But then we got to like like year eight in

493
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:27,680
Speaker 3: our dating, we just kind of were like I got

494
00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:29,400
Speaker 3: to the point where I was like, I can't do it.

495
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:33,280
Speaker 3: I can't. I don't know how where this goes. I

496
00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:34,760
Speaker 3: don't know how we could get married. I don't know

497
00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:36,760
Speaker 3: how I can move towards that because I just haven't.

498
00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:38,919
Speaker 3: I don't know how I could be attracted to a

499
00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:41,640
Speaker 3: woman that way. And so I love you, and there

500
00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:43,399
Speaker 3: was love that was holding us together. I was like,

501
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:45,479
Speaker 3: I love you, but I just don't know how that

502
00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:48,040
Speaker 3: would work, Like I can't find a way in my

503
00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:51,600
Speaker 3: head that makes sense. And so we broke up, and

504
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:55,280
Speaker 3: then we were apart for two years, and for two

505
00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:57,600
Speaker 3: years we just she went her own way. She started,

506
00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:02,040
Speaker 3: she dated somebody else. I uh, we started, you know,

507
00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:05,359
Speaker 3: just I kept leading worship, I kept writing songs, and

508
00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:09,640
Speaker 3: I kept very focused on the Lord and very much

509
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:11,919
Speaker 3: in a way of for so long I had tried

510
00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:15,640
Speaker 3: to change my behaviors for her, and those two years

511
00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:17,959
Speaker 3: were so critical to me because I got real honest

512
00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:20,600
Speaker 3: with the Lord. And that was the moment when I

513
00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:22,800
Speaker 3: really like put my stake in the ground of like

514
00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:25,840
Speaker 3: whether her name is Jordan, whether Jordan is in this

515
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:29,320
Speaker 3: with me or not, I'm not going to live that lifestyle,

516
00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:34,040
Speaker 3: Like I made my claim, like I'm not doing that.

517
00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:37,359
Speaker 3: I've tried it. It does not bring me fulfillment. It

518
00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:40,639
Speaker 3: is not satisfying to me. And so that was really

519
00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:43,520
Speaker 3: important apart from her, because we had had so many

520
00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:45,280
Speaker 3: fights of her being in the Holy Spirit of my life,

521
00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:49,120
Speaker 3: of her trying to change and convict me, and it

522
00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:51,040
Speaker 3: was not intentional for her, it was just how she

523
00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:53,719
Speaker 3: was trying to help. So in those two years, you know,

524
00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:57,000
Speaker 3: we just God did so much. But I remember being

525
00:27:57,000 --> 00:28:00,320
Speaker 3: so honest with the Lord and like praying and saying

526
00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:02,600
Speaker 3: things to him that I had never I couldn't believe

527
00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:06,160
Speaker 3: I would be saying in a prayer like very angry

528
00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:09,520
Speaker 3: and very honest about like why is this my story?

529
00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:11,840
Speaker 3: Why did you put me here? In like cussing like.

530
00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:12,680
Speaker 1: I was so mad.

531
00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:15,040
Speaker 3: I was just so mad that this was the reality

532
00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:18,680
Speaker 3: of my life and I couldn't see a way forward. Well,

533
00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:22,400
Speaker 3: then we end up uh long story short, our bands.

534
00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:24,280
Speaker 3: She she started leading worship with her own band. I

535
00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:26,280
Speaker 3: was leading worship with my band, and both of our

536
00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:29,840
Speaker 3: bands were booked in Oklahoma City and our bands were

537
00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:32,080
Speaker 3: all friends, and so we decided to get dinner one night,

538
00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:36,119
Speaker 3: and at these events that we were separately at got dinner,

539
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:38,640
Speaker 3: I connected with her and I just remember sitting there thinking,

540
00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:41,400
Speaker 3: she's the best thing that could have ever happened to me.

541
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:44,680
Speaker 3: And I'm willing to figure this out with her, and

542
00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:49,560
Speaker 3: so call her the next day, sat with her, told her,

543
00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:52,240
Speaker 3: Hand'm back in, but this time it's it's it's long term.

544
00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:55,440
Speaker 3: It's not I'm not playing games. And we were married

545
00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:56,280
Speaker 3: a few months later.

546
00:28:58,240 --> 00:28:58,880
Speaker 1: That's amazing.

547
00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:02,280
Speaker 3: And we got married, and you know, marriage for me

548
00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:06,360
Speaker 3: was such a leap of faith. You know, I I'm

549
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:09,720
Speaker 3: very honest about this because I feel like so often

550
00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:12,560
Speaker 3: we can be like, I know guys like where I was,

551
00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:15,000
Speaker 3: I know the guys that are listening that are like,

552
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:16,880
Speaker 3: I couldn't do that. Well, I would have said the

553
00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:19,040
Speaker 3: same thing, and I was in this place of like,

554
00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:21,800
Speaker 3: I can't, There's no way I could do that. But

555
00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:25,680
Speaker 3: I just really felt like I felt like it was

556
00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:27,840
Speaker 3: the biggest step of faith that I could take to

557
00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:30,320
Speaker 3: trust that however, it was going to work out. And

558
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:32,800
Speaker 3: we talked about we were like, the honeymoon might be weird,

559
00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:36,520
Speaker 3: and it's uh, we'll figure it all out. And I

560
00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:38,040
Speaker 3: don't know if it's going to work, like, we'll just

561
00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:41,400
Speaker 3: have to see. And but we went into our wedding,

562
00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:46,080
Speaker 3: it was so Jesus exalting and every a lot of people,

563
00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:47,800
Speaker 3: not everyone. There were a lot of people still in

564
00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:49,800
Speaker 3: the room that some didn't know, but like a lot

565
00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:51,760
Speaker 3: of people knew our story. At that point, we had

566
00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:54,959
Speaker 3: been we had worked through and brought community into it.

567
00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:57,280
Speaker 3: We had brought a lot of accountability into it, a

568
00:29:57,280 --> 00:30:00,480
Speaker 3: lot of friends that we had invited in that we're

569
00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:03,680
Speaker 3: walking with us. And so our wedding was a really

570
00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:07,160
Speaker 3: amazing culmination and celebration of like what God was doing

571
00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:13,480
Speaker 3: in our lives together. And and we've now been married

572
00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:16,920
Speaker 3: fifteen years. We have three kids. We have a twelve,

573
00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:18,200
Speaker 3: ten and a six year old.

574
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:21,120
Speaker 1: And what was it like having kids? Like when you

575
00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:23,440
Speaker 1: first when you had your first kid? Was that just

576
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:25,080
Speaker 1: like my mind blowing to you?

577
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:28,160
Speaker 3: What I mean, what was mind blowing? Beckett? Yeah? It

578
00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:32,040
Speaker 3: was my first born son. In his case, he's twelve,

579
00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:35,600
Speaker 3: and I when I had him, you know, it wasn't

580
00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:37,600
Speaker 3: a story that I ever saw. I didn't think that

581
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:40,440
Speaker 3: I would ever have kids for this reason, you know,

582
00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:42,480
Speaker 3: I just that was not written in my future in

583
00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:49,640
Speaker 3: my mind. So when we had him, I always kind

584
00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:52,000
Speaker 3: of go back to Psalm thirty seventy four, like delight

585
00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:54,280
Speaker 3: yourself in the Lord. Then he gives you the desires

586
00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:57,720
Speaker 3: of your heart. And I really sought to delight myself

587
00:30:57,760 --> 00:30:59,760
Speaker 3: in him. I saw it with everything I had and

588
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:02,040
Speaker 3: all of my might to like seek him and to

589
00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:05,600
Speaker 3: like really delight in him. But what it meant to

590
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:09,080
Speaker 3: delighten him? And when when my kids came into my picture,

591
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:13,200
Speaker 3: into the picture, I didn't know that they were the

592
00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:16,520
Speaker 3: desires of my heart, like they were the things that God.

593
00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:18,560
Speaker 3: It was the gift that God gave me through all

594
00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:21,000
Speaker 3: of this, through all the tumultuous ups and downs, and

595
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:25,200
Speaker 3: through all of the hard my kids, my son. When

596
00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:27,120
Speaker 3: I was holding my firstborn son, I'm like, this is

597
00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:30,120
Speaker 3: crazy and it's hard for me to I always call

598
00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:33,080
Speaker 3: these kids like my three miracles, like I believe that

599
00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:36,800
Speaker 3: they are miraculous. I'm just like, how in the world

600
00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:39,560
Speaker 3: is God so kind of merciful and gracious to me

601
00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:43,160
Speaker 3: to allow me to be a dad now, to want

602
00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:46,520
Speaker 3: to speak to fathers, to like want to tell dads like,

603
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:49,920
Speaker 3: don't choose your desires, choose the legacy, like don't follow

604
00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:53,280
Speaker 3: your desires. Follow legacy, like build a legacy for your

605
00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:56,480
Speaker 3: family and your your future generations that matter and don't

606
00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:59,280
Speaker 3: when we follow our desires, it it's fleeting and it

607
00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:03,360
Speaker 3: just leads you to nothing. So I'm just really passionate

608
00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:06,360
Speaker 3: about being a dad now and with dads, talking to

609
00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:11,000
Speaker 3: dads and being a great husband. And I felt that

610
00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:13,960
Speaker 3: I failed that a lot, but it is that's my

611
00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:16,400
Speaker 3: desire is to be a great dad and a great husband.

612
00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:20,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's one of the things that I talked

613
00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:23,360
Speaker 1: about this before, but it hit me a couple of

614
00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:29,600
Speaker 1: years ago. It hit me really hard that just this

615
00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:34,320
Speaker 1: you know, whatever you want to call it, affliction, perversion,

616
00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:38,240
Speaker 1: whatever it is, like it robbed me of a wife

617
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:42,040
Speaker 1: and kids, Like I never got to have kids because

618
00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:46,120
Speaker 1: of this this thing that was kind of like just

619
00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:51,040
Speaker 1: developed in me without my you know, with I had

620
00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:55,720
Speaker 1: no control over it and it developed me. But that

621
00:32:55,840 --> 00:33:00,760
Speaker 1: is a that's such an amazing thing because I yeah,

622
00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:03,880
Speaker 1: I'm like jealous of you because I just I wish

623
00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:06,080
Speaker 1: I had had that experience of having kids, like it

624
00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:08,760
Speaker 1: would have been such an amazing thing. And I, you know,

625
00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:11,360
Speaker 1: because I grew up in a house with eight kids,

626
00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:16,240
Speaker 1: so I was the youngest of eight kids. But uh yeah,

627
00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:22,280
Speaker 1: that's something that I I do regret slash. I feel

628
00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:25,360
Speaker 1: like I missed out on. I mean, however, you know,

629
00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:27,920
Speaker 1: I'm in the Kingdom of God now and like so

630
00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:30,720
Speaker 1: everything's gravy baby.

631
00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:32,600
Speaker 3: Right right right.

632
00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:35,360
Speaker 1: So it's like I don't you know, I don't like

633
00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:39,720
Speaker 1: I'm not like I don't feel like self pity about

634
00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:41,480
Speaker 1: it at all. I just feel I just kind of

635
00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:43,360
Speaker 1: bummed that I didn't get to have kids. Like it's

636
00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:43,600
Speaker 1: just a.

637
00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:47,040
Speaker 3: Bummer that makes sense, that makes sense, and and you know,

638
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:49,760
Speaker 3: it's it's it's something. That's the reason why I'm talking

639
00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:52,280
Speaker 3: openly about my stories because I want guys to like

640
00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:55,280
Speaker 3: because there's so many different stories in this you know,

641
00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:57,920
Speaker 3: guys that have gotten the have kids and are fighting it,

642
00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:02,040
Speaker 3: or so many I've met that are still single and

643
00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:05,640
Speaker 3: solidate and trying to and living mad. And it's so

644
00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:08,719
Speaker 3: interesting because like it's so like the way that God

645
00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:10,759
Speaker 3: has set up it is like the plans that He

646
00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:13,080
Speaker 3: has for you, like you couldn't accomplish maybe with kids,

647
00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:15,520
Speaker 3: you know, and so many you know, you're the things

648
00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:17,880
Speaker 3: you're able to do that I can't do because I

649
00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:18,440
Speaker 3: have kids.

650
00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:19,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, and the.

651
00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:22,279
Speaker 3: Way that you're leveraging your life for God's glory like

652
00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:25,120
Speaker 3: is amazing and like pointing people to Him and bringing

653
00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:28,520
Speaker 3: people to Him in such a special way that you know,

654
00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:31,920
Speaker 3: it's different and I understand it's a human desire of yours,

655
00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:34,000
Speaker 3: but it's also like, Wow, look at what God's doing

656
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:37,520
Speaker 3: in you and your ministry. And I'm a beneficiary of it,

657
00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:40,200
Speaker 3: Like I I when I heard it about your story,

658
00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:43,279
Speaker 3: you know, that was when I was still fighting through

659
00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:47,080
Speaker 3: stuff and I was so encouraged that someone was actually

660
00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:49,279
Speaker 3: talking about it and someone was living their life this

661
00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:51,839
Speaker 3: way that it was hope to me. You brought hope

662
00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:54,440
Speaker 3: to me that you're a huge part of hope in

663
00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:58,200
Speaker 3: my story. And so anyway, I just I know it's

664
00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:03,399
Speaker 3: all nuanced and different, and I while I acknowledge the disappointment,

665
00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:06,880
Speaker 3: I just speak the truth over your life of what

666
00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:09,960
Speaker 3: God's doing in you is crazy and awesome and I'm

667
00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:12,279
Speaker 3: so fortunate and a recipient of it.

668
00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:16,520
Speaker 1: Oh, thank you good praise God for that. Yeah. And so,

669
00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:19,600
Speaker 1: so you've been married for fifteen years and has it

670
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:23,600
Speaker 1: been like has it just been up? Have there been

671
00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:25,360
Speaker 1: ups and downs? Or has it been kind of just

672
00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:27,560
Speaker 1: an amazing ride the whole time.

673
00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:32,279
Speaker 3: Like, yeah, it's been been, it's been interesting, it's it's

674
00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:34,759
Speaker 3: been great. We have a great marriage. I think, like

675
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:38,719
Speaker 3: everyone when you first get married, we've now learned. You know,

676
00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:40,480
Speaker 3: those first few years are hard trying to learn each

677
00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:43,160
Speaker 3: other and doing life together and being in close quarters

678
00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:46,120
Speaker 3: and needing space and all those things, all the normal

679
00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:49,320
Speaker 3: things of marriage. But I've really tried to normalize the

680
00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:52,279
Speaker 3: same sex attraction thing within my marriage. You know when

681
00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:55,680
Speaker 3: I'm now talking with other guys, like we all have stuff,

682
00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:57,960
Speaker 3: we all have our things and think, you know, our

683
00:35:57,960 --> 00:36:00,399
Speaker 3: desires that pull us away from our wives or from

684
00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:02,520
Speaker 3: our families, and we have to fight those things. And

685
00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:04,919
Speaker 3: so what I what I love.

686
00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:07,000
Speaker 1: About our marriage. Yeah, by the way, other guys have

687
00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:09,839
Speaker 1: to fight opposite sex attraction with other women, you know,

688
00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:13,800
Speaker 1: in their marriages, like constantly, they're constantly fighting that exactly.

689
00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:15,839
Speaker 3: But we hone in on this and say, oh, this

690
00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:18,319
Speaker 3: is so much worse and like make it the thing.

691
00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:20,239
Speaker 3: And I just am like no, I want to normalize

692
00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:22,640
Speaker 3: this and like make guys not have to be crazy

693
00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:26,360
Speaker 3: in their minds over that. But you know, Jordan and

694
00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:29,359
Speaker 3: I we have worked out in our marriage, how what

695
00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:32,960
Speaker 3: it's like for me, And she knows my the way

696
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:35,560
Speaker 3: my mind works, she knows the places of temptation for me,

697
00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:38,480
Speaker 3: she knows. We talk about it all. We talk about

698
00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:41,560
Speaker 3: all these things, and over the course of our marriage

699
00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:44,680
Speaker 3: she has learned like so much more even now as

700
00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:47,439
Speaker 3: we're married, and how I operate. But there's no one

701
00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:51,600
Speaker 3: that knows me better at this point, and so there

702
00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:53,759
Speaker 3: has been ups and downs for sure, But I think

703
00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:57,080
Speaker 3: that the whole sum of it is, like you know,

704
00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:00,480
Speaker 3: it's it's amazing. It's amazing that we get to walk

705
00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:02,520
Speaker 3: life together and then I get to be so honest

706
00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:05,239
Speaker 3: with somebody that still chooses to love me and still

707
00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:07,600
Speaker 3: chooses to like lean towards me. And a lot of

708
00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:09,600
Speaker 3: that has come through our community too, Like we have

709
00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:13,680
Speaker 3: great friends who I meet with guys weekly. We have

710
00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:17,080
Speaker 3: two couples that we walk life with and a lot

711
00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:19,319
Speaker 3: of friends, but these two couples really closely. And I

712
00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:21,600
Speaker 3: meet with the guys. She meets with the girls every week.

713
00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:24,799
Speaker 3: We're confessing things, We're talking about the real things. We're

714
00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:27,759
Speaker 3: going deep and sharing where we were tempted this week

715
00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:31,080
Speaker 3: and where our struggles are. And she knows I'm doing that.

716
00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:34,680
Speaker 3: So there's a lot of trust built there and built

717
00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:38,600
Speaker 3: in accountability through our community. So it's yeah, we've learned

718
00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:40,600
Speaker 3: a lot through that and how to open up. And

719
00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:42,799
Speaker 3: that was a journey with same sextraction. It wasn't like

720
00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:47,799
Speaker 3: we started and like told everybody, right. We literally just

721
00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:51,560
Speaker 3: started talking about our story publicly last year. So this

722
00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:55,920
Speaker 3: is the public side of it is new, and so

723
00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:59,520
Speaker 3: that's a whole different thing. But we you know, for us,

724
00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:02,160
Speaker 3: in our commit it's not new. And the people around us,

725
00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:05,680
Speaker 3: they all they've known this and walked with us. Yeah,

726
00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:08,880
Speaker 3: that's a great question. We actually, I was pretty committed

727
00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:13,080
Speaker 3: before we went public with our story that this was

728
00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:17,799
Speaker 3: a journey for our entire family. And so in order

729
00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:19,800
Speaker 3: to do that, I knew I needed to tell my kids.

730
00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:23,440
Speaker 3: So we had the conversation and with the two older ones.

731
00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:27,640
Speaker 3: Our six year old is still not you know six, yeah,

732
00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:30,319
Speaker 3: and so at the time he was five, you know,

733
00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:33,560
Speaker 3: last year when we were launching this whole new endeavor,

734
00:38:34,120 --> 00:38:36,880
Speaker 3: and so I talked to my kids about it, and

735
00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:39,480
Speaker 3: I told my kids and we had the whole conversation

736
00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:43,279
Speaker 3: and I had to you know, for me, that was

737
00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:45,879
Speaker 3: really hard. I had to go from what your kids

738
00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:50,480
Speaker 3: think of you being the hero to human and and

739
00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:54,239
Speaker 3: that was that was the hardest part so far of

740
00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:56,200
Speaker 3: like having to tell them and say like this is

741
00:38:56,320 --> 00:38:59,480
Speaker 3: like my life and but we're going to talk about

742
00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:03,560
Speaker 3: it and hope to bring people to freedom in Jesus

743
00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:06,880
Speaker 3: and to break chains off of people who are living

744
00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:11,560
Speaker 3: in secrecy and shame and silence. And and so we

745
00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:13,520
Speaker 3: we we we had the whole conversation with them. And

746
00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:17,080
Speaker 3: what was so sweet is the you know, now we're

747
00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:19,760
Speaker 3: public and we launched it with a podcast called Open Spaces.

748
00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:23,800
Speaker 3: And so when we launched Open Spaces last February, the

749
00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:26,480
Speaker 3: night before we launched, you know, we're having all these

750
00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:29,040
Speaker 3: thoughts of like wow, you know, it was the way

751
00:39:29,080 --> 00:39:32,239
Speaker 3: that we we found we could share our story in

752
00:39:32,239 --> 00:39:34,839
Speaker 3: a in a conversation that people. You know, we didn't

753
00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:35,960
Speaker 3: want to come out of the gate and be like

754
00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:38,360
Speaker 3: this is this is how you need to think and

755
00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:40,200
Speaker 3: this is you know, this is our you know, we

756
00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:42,520
Speaker 3: tried to enter the conversation in a way of like,

757
00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:45,359
Speaker 3: this is our story and that's all we are going

758
00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:47,200
Speaker 3: to tell you is just our story. Because God has

759
00:39:47,239 --> 00:39:49,319
Speaker 3: done a miracle, we want to share it. So when

760
00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:54,120
Speaker 3: we start launched Open Spaces. The night before we were

761
00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:56,600
Speaker 3: we were my wife Jordan and I were like, we

762
00:39:56,640 --> 00:39:58,400
Speaker 3: have a really great life. Are we about to like

763
00:39:58,480 --> 00:39:59,279
Speaker 3: kind of blow it up?

764
00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:01,520
Speaker 1: Like I feel like, why would we do this again?

765
00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:05,160
Speaker 3: Like you, like, you know, published on the first episode,

766
00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:08,000
Speaker 3: I'm going to share this big secret to everybody because

767
00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:12,160
Speaker 3: we're in public ministry. And it felt a little crazy.

768
00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:14,560
Speaker 3: But the night before I tell you all that, as

769
00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:16,440
Speaker 3: you had asked about my kids, my kids were the

770
00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:20,600
Speaker 3: ones who I asked them to pray over it. And uh,

771
00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:22,480
Speaker 3: you know, sitting with my kids the night before we

772
00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:26,719
Speaker 3: published this first episode of our podcast and hearing my

773
00:40:27,239 --> 00:40:32,319
Speaker 3: then eleven and then nine year old a son and

774
00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:36,880
Speaker 3: daughter pray over our podcast and for the freedom for

775
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:41,439
Speaker 3: people to find Jesus in it, that was That's That's

776
00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:44,000
Speaker 3: what I'm talking about. We're on the journey together and

777
00:40:44,120 --> 00:40:46,520
Speaker 3: one day I don't know how, but I believe God will.

778
00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:50,160
Speaker 3: I've had I believe that He will give us moments

779
00:40:50,160 --> 00:40:53,000
Speaker 3: as a family of this is like a mission that

780
00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:53,680
Speaker 3: we're on together.

781
00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:58,879
Speaker 1: That's awesome. Now there's gonna be I know, there's gonna

782
00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:02,920
Speaker 1: be comments in the comment section that or they're basically

783
00:41:03,040 --> 00:41:07,640
Speaker 1: like from say, from the accuser Satan. But I'm just

784
00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:09,560
Speaker 1: gonna ask you this. I mean, we've we've already kind

785
00:41:09,560 --> 00:41:11,200
Speaker 1: of you've already kind of talked about all of this.

786
00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:15,840
Speaker 1: But just tell me, how would you respond to someone

787
00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:20,160
Speaker 1: who's gonna comment, which they probably will, you know, Jeff,

788
00:41:20,239 --> 00:41:23,439
Speaker 1: Like what are you doing? You're not? You're Why don't

789
00:41:23,480 --> 00:41:25,799
Speaker 1: you just live your true self? Like why don't you

790
00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:29,279
Speaker 1: just live this is? You're not? You know, why are

791
00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:31,799
Speaker 1: you married? Like you know, those kinds of questions like

792
00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:34,919
Speaker 1: why aren't you just living who you are? Like it's

793
00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:37,359
Speaker 1: ridiculous kind of thing. Yeah, say to that.

794
00:41:39,080 --> 00:41:42,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, I it's interesting because like what I would say

795
00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:46,000
Speaker 3: is this is the truest me that I could have found.

796
00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:49,480
Speaker 3: But I didn't know that this true me existed until

797
00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:52,840
Speaker 3: I surrendered everything to Jesus. And when I did and

798
00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:56,800
Speaker 3: I kept walking with him. As I've said, he showed

799
00:41:56,800 --> 00:41:59,400
Speaker 3: me the true desire of my heart, and that was

800
00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:01,759
Speaker 3: to be married, and that was to have kids. It

801
00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:04,680
Speaker 3: was not a sacrifice. I mean it was a sacrifice

802
00:42:04,680 --> 00:42:07,080
Speaker 3: to me. There were a lot of ways, as every

803
00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:11,319
Speaker 3: marriage is a sacrifice, but I chose the way that

804
00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:15,720
Speaker 3: I see in scripture of what the Bible says, and

805
00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:19,200
Speaker 3: I just went that way, and I was like, you

806
00:42:19,239 --> 00:42:21,440
Speaker 3: know what, that's faith, Like I have to have faith

807
00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:25,640
Speaker 3: even in trusting with my sexuality and my and what

808
00:42:26,520 --> 00:42:29,759
Speaker 3: Jesus says about it. And my identity is not in

809
00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:33,240
Speaker 3: my attraction. My identity is in Jesus. I'm a child

810
00:42:33,239 --> 00:42:35,960
Speaker 3: of God. And I don't claim anything else. I don't

811
00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:39,160
Speaker 3: claim any label. I don't claim anything I don't. I

812
00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:43,319
Speaker 3: purposely never talk about am I strait, am I gay?

813
00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:46,000
Speaker 3: Am I. I'm like, that's confusing. That's the world's terms

814
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:48,759
Speaker 3: that are confusing us. The thing that I claim is

815
00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:51,359
Speaker 3: Jesus above all else, and my identity is in him,

816
00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:55,240
Speaker 3: is what scripture says. And I've and just for everyone,

817
00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:57,360
Speaker 3: we all have to wrestle with what that means for

818
00:42:57,400 --> 00:42:59,360
Speaker 3: each one of us in the way that the enemy

819
00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:02,840
Speaker 3: pulls us away from what is God's best. And for me,

820
00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:05,600
Speaker 3: he was pulling me away in things that like no

821
00:43:05,640 --> 00:43:08,879
Speaker 3: one could I know, everyone could argue over the terminology,

822
00:43:08,920 --> 00:43:11,560
Speaker 3: but what people can't argue with is the story that

823
00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:15,800
Speaker 3: I'm living. Like the story is that I did should

824
00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:17,960
Speaker 3: not have been married like that. That was not in

825
00:43:18,040 --> 00:43:21,359
Speaker 3: my mind that was not even possible. But with God,

826
00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:23,960
Speaker 3: all things are possible. And I stepped in with faith,

827
00:43:24,360 --> 00:43:26,360
Speaker 3: truly trusting, Like God, what are you going to do

828
00:43:26,360 --> 00:43:29,320
Speaker 3: in this? I have no idea, but I have watched

829
00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:32,080
Speaker 3: how the Lord has been so kind to us, and

830
00:43:32,719 --> 00:43:35,360
Speaker 3: that Jordan is the person that shows me the most

831
00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:39,759
Speaker 3: Jesus grace that I could ever experience, and she, you know,

832
00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:42,560
Speaker 3: keeps me walking close to Him. And it is the

833
00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:44,640
Speaker 3: best way for me to live is to be close

834
00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:46,880
Speaker 3: to my wife and have my family and disciple, my

835
00:43:46,920 --> 00:43:50,080
Speaker 3: kids to be Jesus followers, to tell people about Jesus

836
00:43:50,080 --> 00:43:53,080
Speaker 3: and raise a family and a legacy to look forward

837
00:43:53,160 --> 00:43:56,200
Speaker 3: to that everyone knows without a doubt the Johnson's were

838
00:43:56,200 --> 00:43:59,200
Speaker 3: surrendered to Jesus, and that that's all I care about.

839
00:43:59,200 --> 00:44:01,800
Speaker 3: I don't care about people opinions, I don't care about labels,

840
00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:04,719
Speaker 3: I don't care about any of those things. I care

841
00:44:04,840 --> 00:44:06,879
Speaker 3: that people will look at my life when I'm dead

842
00:44:06,920 --> 00:44:10,080
Speaker 3: and gone, and in the culture as it will change

843
00:44:10,280 --> 00:44:13,000
Speaker 3: and things will continue to shift, and as everyone keeps

844
00:44:13,040 --> 00:44:16,359
Speaker 3: following culture, I'm following Jesus and I will radically give

845
00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:18,120
Speaker 3: my life to Him day in and day off. And

846
00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:21,920
Speaker 3: so it doesn't really matter those comments. That's what I would.

847
00:44:22,080 --> 00:44:24,640
Speaker 1: Amen to that. I mean, by the way, so trolls

848
00:44:24,640 --> 00:44:29,440
Speaker 1: don't even bother during the comments because they're unnecessary. But

849
00:44:29,520 --> 00:44:34,080
Speaker 1: you know, you, uh, you said something that just reminded

850
00:44:34,120 --> 00:44:41,560
Speaker 1: me of you know, why I've been you know, single,

851
00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:45,320
Speaker 1: And I don't know if the we're sorry. A Butterfield

852
00:44:45,320 --> 00:44:47,160
Speaker 1: gets mad at me when I use the word celibate,

853
00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:50,759
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna say chased, Okay, chase thick a word

854
00:44:52,120 --> 00:44:56,799
Speaker 1: is it's it's actually as you're you're saying, it's like

855
00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:03,719
Speaker 1: it's not really that hard because I have found this

856
00:45:03,840 --> 00:45:07,120
Speaker 1: treasure hidden in a field. Like it's like I have

857
00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:09,799
Speaker 1: this relationship. I always say this, like I've had I

858
00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:13,040
Speaker 1: have this relationship with the King of the universe, and

859
00:45:13,120 --> 00:45:18,200
Speaker 1: it's so all consuming and all like my whole focus

860
00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:22,279
Speaker 1: is on Jesus all the time, day and night. Like

861
00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:26,600
Speaker 1: every night, I mean this is I like every night

862
00:45:26,640 --> 00:45:29,480
Speaker 1: before before I go to bed, I literally watch three

863
00:45:29,600 --> 00:45:32,120
Speaker 1: sermons a night or two or two to three sermons

864
00:45:32,160 --> 00:45:35,040
Speaker 1: a night. Just but it's not because like I'm trying

865
00:45:35,080 --> 00:45:36,919
Speaker 1: to be like a good Christian. It's just because that's

866
00:45:36,920 --> 00:45:39,480
Speaker 1: what I'm drawn to. I just want more and more of.

867
00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:43,080
Speaker 3: And so yes, yeah, that's same. Like that's why I'm

868
00:45:43,120 --> 00:45:45,520
Speaker 3: a worship leader. That's why I want That's why I

869
00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:47,799
Speaker 3: listen to worship music. That's why I lead worship. That's

870
00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:50,839
Speaker 3: why I give my life to leading a worship team

871
00:45:50,840 --> 00:45:53,560
Speaker 3: at a church, because I believe that when you surround

872
00:45:53,600 --> 00:45:56,839
Speaker 3: yourself with worship like things, change your eyes, lift towards

873
00:45:56,920 --> 00:45:59,600
Speaker 3: Jesus and take your eyes off of yourself and all

874
00:45:59,640 --> 00:46:02,239
Speaker 3: of your things and your desires and fix them on

875
00:46:02,239 --> 00:46:03,000
Speaker 3: where they need to be.

876
00:46:03,440 --> 00:46:05,360
Speaker 1: Yeah. And I talked to when I talked to a

877
00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:08,200
Speaker 1: lot of guys who were struggling with this issue, and

878
00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:11,160
Speaker 1: you know, they're kind of like almost at the point

879
00:46:11,200 --> 00:46:15,440
Speaker 1: of wanting to bail out, to bail I'm just like, dude,

880
00:46:16,120 --> 00:46:18,399
Speaker 1: just look at Paul's life. Look at first of all,

881
00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:21,279
Speaker 1: Jesus was single, Paul was single. Look at Paul's life,

882
00:46:21,320 --> 00:46:23,920
Speaker 1: Like all he cared about was running around the Mediterranean

883
00:46:23,960 --> 00:46:27,200
Speaker 1: planting churches and spreading, spreading in the Gospel. He wasn't

884
00:46:27,239 --> 00:46:30,400
Speaker 1: concerned about his He was like beaten and jailed and

885
00:46:30,520 --> 00:46:34,200
Speaker 1: shipwrecking and all kinds of terror. He was as as

886
00:46:34,239 --> 00:46:37,279
Speaker 1: one passor put it, he's he was the most afflicted

887
00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:40,680
Speaker 1: besides Jesus. He was like the most afflicted human of

888
00:46:40,719 --> 00:46:45,800
Speaker 1: all time, and was Paul worried about like oh I

889
00:46:45,840 --> 00:46:47,480
Speaker 1: don't have a wife and kids, or oh I don't

890
00:46:47,520 --> 00:46:50,040
Speaker 1: have like a whatever. It's like No, he just cared

891
00:46:50,040 --> 00:46:53,319
Speaker 1: about the gospel and like right Diesus and getting the

892
00:46:53,320 --> 00:46:56,520
Speaker 1: gospel out. Like so, I just when you kind of

893
00:46:56,560 --> 00:46:58,640
Speaker 1: have this when you pull out and you have this

894
00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:03,640
Speaker 1: bigger perspective and instead of this like naval gazing perspective,

895
00:47:04,320 --> 00:47:08,279
Speaker 1: it changes everything. It changes the way you see. Like

896
00:47:08,360 --> 00:47:12,040
Speaker 1: I always say this too, like you know, you know,

897
00:47:12,360 --> 00:47:15,000
Speaker 1: people ask me, you know, is your life unfair? Blah

898
00:47:15,040 --> 00:47:18,480
Speaker 1: blah blah. I've like since I've been a Christian to

899
00:47:18,600 --> 00:47:21,440
Speaker 1: firs sixteen and a half years, almost seventeen years.

900
00:47:21,480 --> 00:47:22,840
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, it's amazing.

901
00:47:22,920 --> 00:47:28,520
Speaker 4: I'm getting gold seventeen years ago, I have never once,

902
00:47:28,719 --> 00:47:33,000
Speaker 4: not for a second, felt like I'm being cheated out

903
00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:35,480
Speaker 4: of something like I'm being cheated out of a relationship

904
00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:37,719
Speaker 4: with a guy, or or my life is you know,

905
00:47:38,600 --> 00:47:40,240
Speaker 4: my life is sad because.

906
00:47:40,040 --> 00:47:42,520
Speaker 1: I don't get to have a boyfriend or dah da dad.

907
00:47:42,640 --> 00:47:46,280
Speaker 1: Like I've never once felt that, Like I feel the opposite.

908
00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:52,760
Speaker 1: I feel like I can't believe God chose me before

909
00:47:52,840 --> 00:47:56,320
Speaker 1: the foundations of the world to be in His kingdom

910
00:47:56,360 --> 00:48:01,719
Speaker 1: and to give me everlasting life, which is kind of amazing.

911
00:48:02,400 --> 00:48:02,520
Speaker 3: Uh.

912
00:48:03,200 --> 00:48:08,440
Speaker 1: You know, I'm immortal, You're immortal. Yeah, And so I

913
00:48:08,440 --> 00:48:11,719
Speaker 1: mean I'm just like, and there's you know, people who

914
00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:16,800
Speaker 1: I posted something about, you know, on on Twitter, about

915
00:48:16,840 --> 00:48:22,000
Speaker 1: my old life, and you know, I got mostly positive comments,

916
00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:25,399
Speaker 1: but there was it went viral, this post, and there

917
00:48:25,400 --> 00:48:30,439
Speaker 1: were there were obviously some trolls who commented, and and

918
00:48:31,080 --> 00:48:33,000
Speaker 1: one of them said the most foul thing. He was

919
00:48:33,080 --> 00:48:35,360
Speaker 1: just like, oh you still want to blah blah blah,

920
00:48:35,360 --> 00:48:39,240
Speaker 1: like really gross. And and I'm just like, get behind me, Satan,

921
00:48:39,400 --> 00:48:41,879
Speaker 1: Like you don't know me, Like you don't know what

922
00:48:41,920 --> 00:48:45,839
Speaker 1: I'm feeling inside. Yeah, and you don't know my relationship

923
00:48:45,960 --> 00:48:50,960
Speaker 1: with the Lord like anyway, So yes, yeah, haters gonna hate,

924
00:48:51,440 --> 00:48:53,560
Speaker 1: but ignore ignore the haters.

925
00:48:54,600 --> 00:49:00,279
Speaker 3: But yeah, yeah, absolutely, that's throughout scripture. I mean that's what, yeah,

926
00:49:00,280 --> 00:49:01,600
Speaker 3: it happens is And.

927
00:49:01,440 --> 00:49:03,399
Speaker 1: By the way, yeah, on the Sermon on the Mount,

928
00:49:03,520 --> 00:49:07,240
Speaker 1: Jesus says, you know, blessed are you who are revived

929
00:49:07,239 --> 00:49:10,239
Speaker 1: if you're reviled, and people will say all kinds of

930
00:49:11,160 --> 00:49:15,080
Speaker 1: malicious things about you for my namesake. Your reward is

931
00:49:15,120 --> 00:49:19,920
Speaker 1: great in heaven, which is really cool because rewards are eternal,

932
00:49:20,080 --> 00:49:26,719
Speaker 1: and uh, I yes, I love I love the rewards exactly.

933
00:49:26,880 --> 00:49:27,360
Speaker 3: It's coming.

934
00:49:28,200 --> 00:49:31,359
Speaker 1: So but Jeff, I'm so like number one, I'm so

935
00:49:31,680 --> 00:49:34,719
Speaker 1: happy for you. I'm happy that you. Like, in my mind,

936
00:49:34,760 --> 00:49:39,320
Speaker 1: it's like you chose the you chose the right path,

937
00:49:39,480 --> 00:49:43,560
Speaker 1: you chose the right the better portion. Like you you

938
00:49:43,719 --> 00:49:47,000
Speaker 1: decided like because you could have easily just gone the

939
00:49:47,000 --> 00:49:51,520
Speaker 1: other way and just completely full the full, bore into

940
00:49:51,560 --> 00:49:54,560
Speaker 1: that life. And instead you're like, no, I'm going to choose.

941
00:49:55,280 --> 00:49:57,320
Speaker 1: I'm going to choose a godly life. I'm going to

942
00:49:57,400 --> 00:49:59,880
Speaker 1: choose a godly marriage. I'm going to choose a godly fan.

943
00:50:00,360 --> 00:50:01,759
Speaker 1: And this is the way I'm going to go. So

944
00:50:01,880 --> 00:50:04,279
Speaker 1: I am so proud of you. Thank you.

945
00:50:04,480 --> 00:50:05,480
Speaker 3: I appreciate it.

946
00:50:05,640 --> 00:50:08,080
Speaker 1: You know, I wish it is I've done that one,

947
00:50:08,239 --> 00:50:09,759
Speaker 1: but it was a lot I had a different story.

948
00:50:09,800 --> 00:50:11,560
Speaker 1: But anyway, I'm so.

949
00:50:11,400 --> 00:50:14,680
Speaker 3: Proud of God's mercy. It's all God's grace and mercy

950
00:50:14,760 --> 00:50:15,399
Speaker 3: over my life.

951
00:50:15,920 --> 00:50:20,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so tell tell people again where they can

952
00:50:20,320 --> 00:50:21,560
Speaker 1: find your podcast.

953
00:50:21,719 --> 00:50:26,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, So we launched Open Spaces. It's open Spaces podcast

954
00:50:26,360 --> 00:50:29,960
Speaker 3: dot com is our website. Open Spaces is our podcast

955
00:50:30,040 --> 00:50:33,919
Speaker 3: that we have launched last year and telling the first

956
00:50:33,920 --> 00:50:36,440
Speaker 3: five episodes just kind of unpack our full story and

957
00:50:36,480 --> 00:50:38,600
Speaker 3: then we're diving into more now and new in the

958
00:50:38,600 --> 00:50:42,320
Speaker 3: podcast world. But excited about that and started a nonprofit

959
00:50:42,400 --> 00:50:46,320
Speaker 3: with Open Spaces and hopes to have retreats for people

960
00:50:46,360 --> 00:50:48,759
Speaker 3: and have counseling and a lot of things that we

961
00:50:48,800 --> 00:50:51,040
Speaker 3: want to help people in this as we have been

962
00:50:51,080 --> 00:50:54,040
Speaker 3: helped by others and just see like we just wanted

963
00:50:54,040 --> 00:50:55,520
Speaker 3: to be open to what God has for us, and

964
00:50:56,200 --> 00:50:58,520
Speaker 3: as we talk about this, it was important for us

965
00:50:58,520 --> 00:51:02,239
Speaker 3: to share publicly just to help the guys out there

966
00:51:02,320 --> 00:51:05,919
Speaker 3: that were me, that struggled, are struggling now and don't

967
00:51:05,960 --> 00:51:07,560
Speaker 3: know where to go. So we just want to be

968
00:51:07,640 --> 00:51:10,000
Speaker 3: a place where we can have open conversation about it

969
00:51:10,400 --> 00:51:12,880
Speaker 3: and remind people that with God, all things are possible.

970
00:51:13,480 --> 00:51:15,480
Speaker 3: And we're not saying you got to get married and

971
00:51:15,600 --> 00:51:17,960
Speaker 3: your story, that's not it. We're just asking. We're just

972
00:51:18,040 --> 00:51:22,400
Speaker 3: wanting to say, just follow Jesus and choose holiness in

973
00:51:22,440 --> 00:51:26,480
Speaker 3: your life and watch what He'll do. There's no telling

974
00:51:26,520 --> 00:51:29,600
Speaker 3: what he'll do when you do that. So yeah, that's

975
00:51:29,600 --> 00:51:32,320
Speaker 3: where we are. Open spaces podcasts awesome.

976
00:51:32,480 --> 00:51:34,600
Speaker 1: Well, Jeff, thank you so much for coming on the

977
00:51:34,640 --> 00:51:36,880
Speaker 1: show and sharing your story. I appreciate it.

978
00:51:37,400 --> 00:51:39,839
Speaker 3: Thank you so much. Beckett. You have been a huge

979
00:51:39,840 --> 00:51:41,560
Speaker 3: inspiration to me and I'm really grateful to get to

980
00:51:41,560 --> 00:51:42,080
Speaker 3: be on today.

981
00:51:42,680 --> 00:51:43,239
Speaker 1: Praise goott.

982
00:51:52,200 --> 00:51:54,600
Speaker 2: Thank you for listening to this episode of The Beckett

983
00:51:54,640 --> 00:51:59,840
Speaker 2: Cook Show. Your support makes this content possible. All episodes

984
00:51:59,880 --> 00:52:03,720
Speaker 2: of The Beckett Cook Show are also available on YouTube.

985
00:52:03,920 --> 00:52:07,080
Speaker 2: For more information about Beckett and his ministry, visit his

986
00:52:07,160 --> 00:52:10,400
Speaker 2: website at Becketcook dot com.

987
00:52:10,520 --> 00:52:12,440
Speaker 1: Thank you to the team at Life Audio for their

988
00:52:12,480 --> 00:52:15,439
Speaker 1: partnership with us. If you go to lifeaudio dot com,

989
00:52:15,480 --> 00:52:19,560
Speaker 1: you will find more faith centered podcasts about prayer, Bible study, parenting,

990
00:52:19,640 --> 00:52:19,960
Speaker 1: and more.