WEBVTT - Islamabad talks 2.0

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to today's podcast sponsored by Hillsdale College, All Things

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<v Speaker 1>Hillsdale at Hillsdale dot ed or I encourage you to

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<v Speaker 1>take advantage of the many free online courses there, and

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<v Speaker 1>of course I listen to the Hillsdale Dialogue all of

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<v Speaker 1>them at h for Hillsdale dot com or just Google, Apple,

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<v Speaker 1>iTunes and Hillsdale. Welcome back in America. I'm Hugh Hwet.

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<v Speaker 1>Senator Tom Cotton represents the state of arkansass member of

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<v Speaker 1>the Senate Armed Services Committee, Chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee. Senator,

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<v Speaker 1>welcome back. Our negotiating team has how to do Islamabad.

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<v Speaker 1>I am curious about the metrics by which we judge

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<v Speaker 1>any quote deal. First of all, is any limit on

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<v Speaker 1>enrichment acceptable to you? Or should the deal be no enrichment?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, here, I support what the President has said all along,

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<v Speaker 2>and I mean that goes back ten years. So he

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<v Speaker 2>goes back more than ten years. It goes back when

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<v Speaker 2>he was playing into boxing friends in the morning. You

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<v Speaker 2>that's no enrichmond and no enrichmentth means no enrichment. Iron

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<v Speaker 2>has no reason to enrich uranium and certainly don't have

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<v Speaker 2>a right.

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<v Speaker 3>There are many countries.

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<v Speaker 2>Around the world with peaceful civilian nuclear power programs that

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<v Speaker 2>don't enrich uranium. They say they need it for medical research,

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<v Speaker 2>but he when was the last time you saw an

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<v Speaker 2>Iranian doctor standing up on the Nobel Prices stand collecting

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<v Speaker 2>his prize for medical research. All of this just flimsy

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<v Speaker 2>excuse for the nuclear infrastructure needed for nuclear weoms. That's

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<v Speaker 2>why the President has been clear for more than a

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<v Speaker 2>decade Iran cannot enrich uranium.

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<v Speaker 1>It should not be a twenty year or a fifteen

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<v Speaker 1>year deal, should be forever. How about do we need

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<v Speaker 1>do we have to get back the HU highly enriched

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<v Speaker 1>uranium in your view for it to be a successful negotiation.

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<v Speaker 2>I think that's certainly the best case outcome here is

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<v Speaker 2>we've discussed in the past that enriched uranium currently buried

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<v Speaker 2>in the ruins of Iran's nuclear bunkers is not particularly

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<v Speaker 2>dangerous or valuable without that infrastructure, without the centrifuges enrich

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<v Speaker 2>it further. But of course it'd be better if we

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<v Speaker 2>had it, And for that matter, it would show that

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<v Speaker 2>Aron means business is genuinely trying to turn over a

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<v Speaker 2>new leaf and meet the United States's demands.

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<v Speaker 3>If they were to turn it over willingly.

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<v Speaker 2>And again there's many models of that throughout the nuclear

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<v Speaker 2>age from countries who had enriched uranium, either because they

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<v Speaker 2>started a nuclear program or they had it on there

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<v Speaker 2>so well when the Soviet Union disintegrated and they'd turned

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<v Speaker 2>it over freely and voluntarily.

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<v Speaker 1>Now onto the straight, Senator, we know what an open

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<v Speaker 1>strait is. It is not what Arachi announced on Saturday

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<v Speaker 1>and then they fired on two Indian flag tankers. What's

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<v Speaker 1>an open straight mean to you?

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<v Speaker 2>An open straight to you means what it means anywhere

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<v Speaker 2>in the world, which is international waterways are free to

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<v Speaker 2>be traversed by anyone without paying a toll or without

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<v Speaker 2>fear of being hit by a missile or a drone

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<v Speaker 2>or anything else. Ball traffic goes through the straight up

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<v Speaker 2>her moves, without hindrance or without payment to run all.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, now, the ballistic missile program. In the old days

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<v Speaker 1>of arm control, people like Ken Adelman and others would

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<v Speaker 1>negotiate forever on the Salt one salt to the start talks.

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<v Speaker 1>Do we need verifiable limits on what they do in

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<v Speaker 1>their missile programs? And does that not mean inspections on

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<v Speaker 1>any time, anywhere basis which we're not in the JCPO. Indeed,

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<v Speaker 1>entire military bases were off limits to the JCPOA inspectors.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and Hughett to go. Let me just go back

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<v Speaker 3>to those examples.

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<v Speaker 2>Decided about nuclear arms control agreements with Soviet Russia. As

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<v Speaker 2>Ronald Reagan once said, we don't mistrust each other because

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<v Speaker 2>we have these weapons. We have these weapons because we

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<v Speaker 2>mistrust each other yep. And that mistrust was earned over

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<v Speaker 2>decades by Soviet Russia, just like our mistrust of the

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<v Speaker 2>Islamic Republic of Iran has been earned by the IOTEL

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<v Speaker 2>was over decades. So of course we need verification mechanisms.

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<v Speaker 2>But the real problem here is always has been the

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<v Speaker 2>revolutionary regime in Tehran.

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<v Speaker 3>If they didn't give.

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<v Speaker 2>The civilized world constant reason to mistrust them and think

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<v Speaker 2>they were trying to do things like develop nuclear weapons

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<v Speaker 2>and ballistic missiles that could hit anyone in the world,

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<v Speaker 2>then we wouldn't have to worry about such verification systems.

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<v Speaker 1>Let's talk then, about the proxies. I have read that

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<v Speaker 1>Hamash is effectively cut off from Iran and Iran won't

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<v Speaker 1>even return their phone calls. Not true about Hesbalah. What

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<v Speaker 1>do you look for out of an Islam, a boat

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<v Speaker 1>agreement about Hesbala specifically.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, a clear commitment that they will no longer support

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<v Speaker 2>a terror group in Lebanon which is not just terrorized

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<v Speaker 2>as relief for decades, but terrorize the people of Lebanon

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<v Speaker 2>as well, and prevented them from having a stable and

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<v Speaker 2>and durable governments, having peace in their country, and being

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<v Speaker 2>able to have a normal country that has a prosperous

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<v Speaker 2>economy in a civil society. Again, like, what business is

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<v Speaker 2>it of Iran who governs Lebanon on the Mediterranean shores,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, a thousand miles away from its territory, which

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<v Speaker 2>is a different ethnic group and has a different history altogether.

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<v Speaker 2>Their only interest is settling up a terror proxy on

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<v Speaker 2>Israel's border, which we can't live with because has the

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<v Speaker 2>less killed lots of Americans and Israel certainly.

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<v Speaker 3>Can't live with.

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<v Speaker 1>So the last item I've seen on people's checklist is

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<v Speaker 1>something for the Iranian people, like the return of the

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<v Speaker 1>internet or promises not to murder tens of thousands. I've

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<v Speaker 1>seen the silly discussion. Oh hardliners are now in You

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<v Speaker 1>can't get more hardline than murdering tens of thousands of

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<v Speaker 1>your people often negotiators to insist on anything visa me,

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<v Speaker 1>the Iranian population in your opinion center of Cotton.

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<v Speaker 2>I've heard those suggestions. Well, I think it would be

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<v Speaker 2>very welcome to turn the Internet back on. It's one

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<v Speaker 2>of those things that a Ronald Publick have to do eventually,

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<v Speaker 2>because the modern society can't prosper without internet service. But

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<v Speaker 2>I think it's perfectly appropriate to raise this point, and

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<v Speaker 2>I think it's also appropriate to say, like, look, the

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<v Speaker 2>people who machine gun tens of thousands of your own

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<v Speaker 2>citizens in January are not largely dead because of it,

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<v Speaker 2>and all of their trucks and mounted machine guns and

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<v Speaker 2>their headquarters.

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<v Speaker 3>Are now largely destroyed. So you better not.

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<v Speaker 2>Do that again, or we might have to come back

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<v Speaker 2>and finish the job on you, just like we've done

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<v Speaker 2>on them.

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<v Speaker 1>Judging from Open Sources Center, do you think there's a

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<v Speaker 1>conflict within the Iranian regime because they are saying contradictory

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<v Speaker 1>things and there are allegedly are GC people upset with

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<v Speaker 1>the elected people or the foreign minister. How do you

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<v Speaker 1>read it?

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<v Speaker 4>Well?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you I mean like you don't have to discuss

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<v Speaker 2>classified information here. You see what the Iranian leadership is

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<v Speaker 2>saying you got guys running around and suits and tie saying, oh,

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<v Speaker 2>the strait is open, We're sending delegations to negotiate, and

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<v Speaker 2>you got the guys and guns at the Revolutionary Guard

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<v Speaker 2>corpse saying no, I don't think so.

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<v Speaker 3>That itself is.

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<v Speaker 2>A remarkable change from years and years of governance inside

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<v Speaker 2>Iran in which the Supreme Leader's word was final. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm sure they had disagreements inside the government. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>human affairs always yield disagreements, but you didn't have this

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<v Speaker 2>kind of open fracture between high ranking officials.

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<v Speaker 3>And I think that itself just goes to show.

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<v Speaker 2>How badly Iran's government has been knocked onto its back foot.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, last question, Senator Cenator Graham has been pushing pretty

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<v Speaker 1>vocally online that the president be tough tough time. Do

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<v Speaker 1>you think Republicans will break with him if they sense

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<v Speaker 1>that the deal, if there is a deal in Islamabad,

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<v Speaker 1>is weak.

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<v Speaker 2>You I have no reason to think there would be

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<v Speaker 2>a weak deal. I mean, when has President Trump, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>gone soft on a run net JCPO with JCPO withdrawal,

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<v Speaker 2>maximum pressure campaign, the Sulemani strike, mid not hammer now

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<v Speaker 2>epic fury. I'd say at every turn to you, Donald

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<v Speaker 2>Trump has been probably the most assertive and maximist member

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<v Speaker 2>of his own administration, and he's led the way for Republicans.

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<v Speaker 2>So I expect if there is any deal, I think

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<v Speaker 2>the odds are long. As President has said that, you

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<v Speaker 2>can count on it to be a very strong one.

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<v Speaker 1>I hope you're right. I do not want He did

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<v Speaker 1>mention Nevill Chamberlain last week blasting UK, so he knows

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<v Speaker 1>about appeasement. I don't think he wants that label attached

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<v Speaker 1>to him. I hope you are right, Senator Tom Cotton

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<v Speaker 1>follow him my exit send Tom Cotton. Thank you, senator

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<v Speaker 1>for being there. As always, I'll be right back in America.

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<v Speaker 1>Go nowhere. It's the Hugh Hewitt Show. I'm Hugh Hewitt.

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<v Speaker 1>The war where they were on remains center stage on

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<v Speaker 1>this program. Though there is a ceasefire, there's another ceasefire

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<v Speaker 1>as well. Our ally, Israel has been fighting at two

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<v Speaker 1>front war. We've been fight in one front war. Their

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<v Speaker 1>second front is in Lebanon. The guns have fallen silent there.

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<v Speaker 1>Although Hezbillah has broken the truth a few times and

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<v Speaker 1>the IDF has responded I'm joined now by doctor Michael Orn,

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<v Speaker 1>former Israelian ambassador the United States, founder of the Israeli

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<v Speaker 1>Israel Advocacy Group. Doctor Orrin, what do you make of

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<v Speaker 1>what's going on in Lebanon and generally of the situation

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<v Speaker 1>as our team heads to Islamabad and I hope not

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<v Speaker 1>to Munich two point zero.

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<v Speaker 5>Good to be with you, Hugh. Let me just mentioned

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<v Speaker 5>that tonight is Israeli Memorial Day.

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<v Speaker 6>It's a very solemn and sad day in this country,

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<v Speaker 6>the whole country. Your plummets into literally a paroxysm of mourning.

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<v Speaker 6>I can't stress this enough. Hence my dress today tomorrow

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<v Speaker 6>will be at military cemeteries and various ceremonies throughout the.

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<v Speaker 5>Country, and so it's it's a poignant moment for us.

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<v Speaker 6>And let me say generally that there's a tendency to

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<v Speaker 6>distinguish between the Lebanese front and the Iranian front, what's

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<v Speaker 6>going on and say the Latani River and what's going

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<v Speaker 6>on the Straits of Removes, But in fact it's all

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<v Speaker 6>one battle, and the main battle actually is in Islamabad.

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<v Speaker 6>And I think that that tremendous credit goes to President

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<v Speaker 6>Allen of Lebanon. It takes true guts to do what

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<v Speaker 6>he's doing. Two of his predecessors tried to do this

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<v Speaker 6>and they were assassinated. He risks a civil war over

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<v Speaker 6>making peace with Israel, and I think the man, in

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<v Speaker 6>my eyes, he's a hero. Let's see if you can deliver.

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<v Speaker 6>But if he does deliver, the Lebanese army is still

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<v Speaker 6>incapable of taking on his Beulah. His beulah the largest,

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<v Speaker 6>still the largest non state military force, not just in

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<v Speaker 6>the Middle East, but probably anywhere in the world.

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<v Speaker 5>It's huge, and we're finding at that out.

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<v Speaker 6>We thought we had degraded them a tremendous amount, and

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<v Speaker 6>it turns out we hadn't degraded them as much as

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<v Speaker 6>we thought. So tremendous threat. There's only one way you

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<v Speaker 6>can defeat his Bullah. It's not by Israel occupying Lebanon.

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<v Speaker 6>We tried that in nineteen eighty two. I know I

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<v Speaker 6>was there not a good idea. We can only do

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<v Speaker 6>it by drawing up the supply of weapons and funds

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<v Speaker 6>from Iran. That's what brings us back to the Straits

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<v Speaker 6>of Hermus, and that's what's brings us back to Islam.

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<v Speaker 6>About so We're all following very carefully the president as

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<v Speaker 6>he makes various statements, the Iranians that make various statements.

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<v Speaker 5>And here's the good news and perhaps the bad news,

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<v Speaker 5>I don't know.

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<v Speaker 6>The good news is that the president seems to be

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<v Speaker 6>very serious about having that military option on the table

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<v Speaker 6>and being ready to use it, and that he is

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<v Speaker 6>very adamant about ending Iran's certainly getting that ninety nine

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<v Speaker 6>hundred pounds of enricheranium out of Iran and delaying Iran's

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<v Speaker 6>ability to enricheranium. He says for twenty years, we would

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<v Speaker 6>hope for fifty. But the major issue there is sanctions

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<v Speaker 6>relief and support for terror, which we remember support for

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<v Speaker 6>ending Iran support Fortendo was one of the original objectives.

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<v Speaker 5>Of the war.

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<v Speaker 6>I haven't heard about it in a couple of days,

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<v Speaker 6>perhaps you have h And then the question is what

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<v Speaker 6>is the quid pro quo.

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<v Speaker 5>That the Iranians will ask for.

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<v Speaker 6>And the fear here that at the last four sanctions

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<v Speaker 6>relief and sanctions relief be basically a lifeline to the regime,

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<v Speaker 6>enabling it to keep on oppressing its own people, to

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<v Speaker 6>supporting terrorist groups around the region, and ultimately to rebuilding

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<v Speaker 6>those military capabilities that have been so vastly destroyed.

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<v Speaker 5>So those are our concerns tonight.

0:12:14.679 --> 0:12:18.640
<v Speaker 1>You so doct ron as we end. We recognize you're

0:12:18.679 --> 0:12:21.720
<v Speaker 1>in black, and all of Israel stops from Memorial Day,

0:12:21.800 --> 0:12:25.240
<v Speaker 1>and as it should because of the sacrifices made from

0:12:25.320 --> 0:12:28.560
<v Speaker 1>nineteen forty eight forward. But let me talk about the

0:12:29.120 --> 0:12:31.680
<v Speaker 1>sixth judgments that I have to make. I don't want

0:12:31.679 --> 0:12:34.440
<v Speaker 1>any enrichment, not for fifteen years, not for twenty, not

0:12:34.520 --> 0:12:36.600
<v Speaker 1>for twenty, but not for fifteen. No enrichment. They don't

0:12:36.600 --> 0:12:39.920
<v Speaker 1>need enrichment. Number Two, we get the hu back, whether

0:12:39.960 --> 0:12:42.720
<v Speaker 1>it's dust, is still solid. Number Three, the trait is open,

0:12:42.760 --> 0:12:46.319
<v Speaker 1>and no more screwing around. Number four, restraint on ballistic

0:12:46.360 --> 0:12:49.000
<v Speaker 1>missiles like the start stock talks of old that people

0:12:49.040 --> 0:12:51.640
<v Speaker 1>always know. We can put restraints on missiles. We just

0:12:51.679 --> 0:12:55.640
<v Speaker 1>have to be able to inspect on an instant basis, anywhere,

0:12:55.640 --> 0:13:00.079
<v Speaker 1>anytime inspection. No more proxies. And of course something for

0:13:00.160 --> 0:13:02.680
<v Speaker 1>the Iranian people. Something is basic, as like turn on

0:13:02.720 --> 0:13:05.880
<v Speaker 1>the internet. If we don't get all six things, have we.

0:13:05.920 --> 0:13:10.640
<v Speaker 6>Lost, well, I think you've lost in terms in the

0:13:10.640 --> 0:13:11.720
<v Speaker 6>Middle Eastern terms.

0:13:12.280 --> 0:13:14.679
<v Speaker 5>It depends again, you're always gonna it sounds like picky

0:13:14.760 --> 0:13:17.920
<v Speaker 5>you in here. How you define victory, you will set

0:13:17.960 --> 0:13:18.600
<v Speaker 5>back Iran.

0:13:18.679 --> 0:13:20.920
<v Speaker 6>You set back your room. You know, several years will

0:13:20.960 --> 0:13:23.199
<v Speaker 6>take them. I don't know how long to rebuild their economy.

0:13:23.200 --> 0:13:25.760
<v Speaker 6>If they can rebuild their economies, it depends again on

0:13:25.800 --> 0:13:31.000
<v Speaker 6>the sanctioned relief and degree to which the United States

0:13:31.000 --> 0:13:33.840
<v Speaker 6>will back is real to keep combating Kamas and his bullock.

0:13:33.920 --> 0:13:35.600
<v Speaker 6>Keep in mind you said two front wars. There are

0:13:35.600 --> 0:13:38.040
<v Speaker 6>a couple other fronts going on here. We've had fighting

0:13:38.040 --> 0:13:39.400
<v Speaker 6>around the Gaza Strip as well.

0:13:39.840 --> 0:13:42.400
<v Speaker 5>So many unknowns.

0:13:42.920 --> 0:13:45.880
<v Speaker 6>But you know, there's a Western definition of victory, which

0:13:45.920 --> 0:13:48.200
<v Speaker 6>is how many boats are sunk and how many missile

0:13:48.280 --> 0:13:51.160
<v Speaker 6>launchers you blew up or factories you're destroyed. There's the

0:13:51.200 --> 0:13:53.480
<v Speaker 6>Middle Eastern definition is you know, you come out of

0:13:53.559 --> 0:13:55.720
<v Speaker 6>a hole or a tunnel and you flash the V

0:13:55.880 --> 0:13:59.679
<v Speaker 6>sign and you've won. Especially if you're thinking, you know, here,

0:13:59.679 --> 0:14:01.480
<v Speaker 6>they don't think in terms of of weeks and months.

0:14:01.520 --> 0:14:02.800
<v Speaker 5>I think in terms of years and.

0:14:02.760 --> 0:14:05.840
<v Speaker 6>Decades, and so if you were to you know, delay

0:14:06.000 --> 0:14:08.920
<v Speaker 6>Iran's ability to be richeranium for twenty years for them,

0:14:09.160 --> 0:14:09.880
<v Speaker 6>that's next week.

0:14:11.200 --> 0:14:13.800
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Well, I don't believe in any I believe in

0:14:13.840 --> 0:14:16.640
<v Speaker 1>making sure that the regime becomes just a military hunter

0:14:16.800 --> 0:14:20.600
<v Speaker 1>that does not have ambitions beyond getting rich from the

0:14:20.600 --> 0:14:23.840
<v Speaker 1>corrupt practices of a hunter, a like in Millmar. There

0:14:23.840 --> 0:14:26.880
<v Speaker 1>are hunters around the world that don't threaten people, right,

0:14:27.080 --> 0:14:30.800
<v Speaker 1>can Iran become one of those? Well?

0:14:30.800 --> 0:14:32.960
<v Speaker 6>That was that was our big philosophical difference with the

0:14:33.120 --> 0:14:34.000
<v Speaker 6>Aboma administration.

0:14:34.280 --> 0:14:35.840
<v Speaker 5>For five years, I sat.

0:14:35.680 --> 0:14:38.880
<v Speaker 6>In the in the most you know, intimate discussions with

0:14:39.000 --> 0:14:41.560
<v Speaker 6>our American allies about Iran, and we looked at the

0:14:41.600 --> 0:14:45.080
<v Speaker 6>exact same aerial photographs of the same intelligence information we knew

0:14:45.120 --> 0:14:48.640
<v Speaker 6>exactly a complete agreement on the status of the Iranian

0:14:48.720 --> 0:14:49.360
<v Speaker 6>nuclear program.

0:14:49.360 --> 0:14:51.240
<v Speaker 5>Where we disagreed deeply.

0:14:50.960 --> 0:14:56.280
<v Speaker 6>Philosophically, it was we thought, you know, Iran is a Jihattist, Islamicist,

0:14:56.400 --> 0:15:02.560
<v Speaker 6>expansionist or basically mafia that seeks to dominate the Middle

0:15:02.560 --> 0:15:04.720
<v Speaker 6>East then expand that hegemony beyond the Middle East to

0:15:04.760 --> 0:15:07.160
<v Speaker 6>the world and didn't care who they killed in the

0:15:07.160 --> 0:15:10.200
<v Speaker 6>process or how Whereas the Abom administration thought that these

0:15:10.200 --> 0:15:14.000
<v Speaker 6>people operate on a cost benefit analysis, they're rational and

0:15:14.040 --> 0:15:18.680
<v Speaker 6>that quote unquote Iran could become a responsible regional actor.

0:15:19.000 --> 0:15:22.440
<v Speaker 5>Are also regional power quote unquote. You know, I think

0:15:22.480 --> 0:15:24.040
<v Speaker 5>it's clear who was right in this debate.

0:15:25.240 --> 0:15:30.880
<v Speaker 6>And there's a deep American and Western need to feel

0:15:30.880 --> 0:15:34.400
<v Speaker 6>that human beings are basically just like us. They love

0:15:34.440 --> 0:15:36.600
<v Speaker 6>their kids, they want the best for their children. You know,

0:15:36.760 --> 0:15:38.800
<v Speaker 6>we're not dealing with that. We're dealing with the country

0:15:38.800 --> 0:15:42.040
<v Speaker 6>that puts plastic keys around the next of tens of

0:15:42.040 --> 0:15:45.120
<v Speaker 6>thousands of children and sends them out to clear mindfields.

0:15:45.640 --> 0:15:49.680
<v Speaker 6>It is profoundly and utterly different, a completely alien universe.

0:15:50.200 --> 0:15:54.160
<v Speaker 1>And is there a mob work. We've all seen the

0:15:54.160 --> 0:15:55.960
<v Speaker 1>Godfather and we all know what it means to go

0:15:56.000 --> 0:15:58.760
<v Speaker 1>to the mattresses? Have they gone to the mattresses in Iran?

0:15:58.800 --> 0:16:02.200
<v Speaker 1>Do you think you see Iran regime fracture underway?

0:16:02.600 --> 0:16:05.680
<v Speaker 5>Well, there's the first sign was to happen this week.

0:16:05.480 --> 0:16:07.880
<v Speaker 6>When the Foreign Ministry said that the straits were open

0:16:08.080 --> 0:16:09.280
<v Speaker 6>and the military says.

0:16:09.120 --> 0:16:12.560
<v Speaker 5>No, it's not open, and you wonder, like who's calling

0:16:12.560 --> 0:16:13.280
<v Speaker 5>the shots there?

0:16:13.600 --> 0:16:15.880
<v Speaker 6>You know, it reminded me, if you have time, that's

0:16:15.880 --> 0:16:18.360
<v Speaker 6>a great scene in the Apocalypse Now when Martin Sheen jumps

0:16:18.400 --> 0:16:20.160
<v Speaker 6>into the foxhole and there's two.

0:16:20.040 --> 0:16:22.840
<v Speaker 5>Soldiers there and say, you know, he says, who's in command?

0:16:22.840 --> 0:16:24.120
<v Speaker 5>Here and they say, aren't you.

0:16:27.080 --> 0:16:29.520
<v Speaker 1>At this point there are three commanders over in Iran,

0:16:29.600 --> 0:16:32.960
<v Speaker 1>and that's what's the problem. Doctor Michael or in a

0:16:33.400 --> 0:16:36.480
<v Speaker 1>timber Memorial Day to you and all our friends in Israel,

0:16:36.560 --> 0:16:39.640
<v Speaker 1>thank you for joining me fiction in America inside the Beltway.

0:16:40.120 --> 0:16:42.680
<v Speaker 1>Joined for the very first time on the U Hewitt

0:16:42.680 --> 0:16:45.560
<v Speaker 1>Show by Aaron B. McLain. Now you've heard me talk

0:16:45.600 --> 0:16:48.360
<v Speaker 1>about Aaron because he runs the School of War podcast,

0:16:48.440 --> 0:16:51.880
<v Speaker 1>which is indispensable. He's also a commis for the Free Press.

0:16:52.000 --> 0:16:57.120
<v Speaker 1>Recently he became the CBS National Security Correspondent and you

0:16:57.160 --> 0:17:01.000
<v Speaker 1>can follow him on exit. Aaron two as B is

0:17:01.040 --> 0:17:05.960
<v Speaker 1>in Bumblebee. Aaron B. McClain, m ac l e a N. Aaron,

0:17:06.000 --> 0:17:08.440
<v Speaker 1>You've got one of the hardest names to ever remember

0:17:08.440 --> 0:17:10.680
<v Speaker 1>for an ex posting because they've got two a's of

0:17:10.840 --> 0:17:15.280
<v Speaker 1>B and mac as opposed to a mic. And I'm

0:17:15.320 --> 0:17:18.879
<v Speaker 1>welcome one thing as a professional of thirty five years

0:17:18.880 --> 0:17:20.520
<v Speaker 1>to someone who's only been known it for a couple

0:17:20.560 --> 0:17:23.040
<v Speaker 1>of years. You got to tell people more about yourself.

0:17:23.040 --> 0:17:25.360
<v Speaker 1>You have all these amazing credentials and you don't ever

0:17:25.480 --> 0:17:28.000
<v Speaker 1>mention it on School of War. If you don't tell

0:17:28.000 --> 0:17:29.760
<v Speaker 1>people about yourself, nobody will.

0:17:31.560 --> 0:17:34.160
<v Speaker 7>Well, it's a real honor to be on your show

0:17:34.160 --> 0:17:36.280
<v Speaker 7>with you. I've been a fan of yours for many,

0:17:36.320 --> 0:17:39.000
<v Speaker 7>many years, and I can't thank you enough for all

0:17:39.000 --> 0:17:41.840
<v Speaker 7>the kind words you've got about about the School War podcast.

0:17:41.920 --> 0:17:44.960
<v Speaker 7>So it's a real pleasure to talk around with you today. Well,

0:17:45.119 --> 0:17:47.280
<v Speaker 7>tell me tell the audience for it. You are a

0:17:47.320 --> 0:17:49.600
<v Speaker 7>major in the United States Marine Corps. How did you

0:17:49.680 --> 0:17:51.520
<v Speaker 7>end up doing that? Where are you from? And how

0:17:51.520 --> 0:17:52.720
<v Speaker 7>did you end up in the Marines.

0:17:54.080 --> 0:17:55.800
<v Speaker 4>Sure, yeah, I was a captain.

0:17:55.840 --> 0:17:58.159
<v Speaker 7>I think I got promoted to major in the Individual

0:17:58.200 --> 0:18:01.760
<v Speaker 7>Ready Reserve after I left. But I don't stand on ceremony, Hugh.

0:18:02.040 --> 0:18:04.800
<v Speaker 7>But I was a captain in the infantry deployed to Afghanistan.

0:18:04.920 --> 0:18:06.679
<v Speaker 7>You know, my dad was a career army guy. And

0:18:06.720 --> 0:18:08.439
<v Speaker 7>if you'd asked me, Hugh, when I was growing up,

0:18:08.440 --> 0:18:09.919
<v Speaker 7>what are you going to do with your life? The

0:18:10.000 --> 0:18:12.200
<v Speaker 7>one thing I could have told you with great certainty

0:18:12.280 --> 0:18:14.879
<v Speaker 7>was I was never ever going to join the military.

0:18:15.440 --> 0:18:17.120
<v Speaker 7>But then, for like a lot of guys my age

0:18:17.320 --> 0:18:19.240
<v Speaker 7>nine to eleven, happens that changed my view and I

0:18:19.320 --> 0:18:21.320
<v Speaker 7>ended up in the Marines as the black Sheep in

0:18:21.359 --> 0:18:25.040
<v Speaker 7>an otherwise Army family came to Washington not long after that,

0:18:26.119 --> 0:18:28.760
<v Speaker 7>knocked around different roles to include some time as a

0:18:28.760 --> 0:18:31.280
<v Speaker 7>fellow at the Hudson Institute. And I started this podcast

0:18:31.320 --> 0:18:33.440
<v Speaker 7>on a lark, just because I was curious about military

0:18:33.480 --> 0:18:35.560
<v Speaker 7>history and figured others would be too. And just in

0:18:35.600 --> 0:18:37.640
<v Speaker 7>the last few years it's been really gratifying to see

0:18:37.640 --> 0:18:39.440
<v Speaker 7>it take off and develop a bit of an audience.

0:18:39.880 --> 0:18:42.439
<v Speaker 1>Well, I've said this a couple of times today and

0:18:42.480 --> 0:18:44.560
<v Speaker 1>I've only been able to say it twice in my life.

0:18:44.840 --> 0:18:47.679
<v Speaker 1>I was at the CIA yesterday and it was the

0:18:47.760 --> 0:18:51.439
<v Speaker 1>unveiling of a director Pompale's portrait, and I told him

0:18:51.440 --> 0:18:54.800
<v Speaker 1>he had been the subject of an Aaron McClain podcast

0:18:54.800 --> 0:18:59.480
<v Speaker 1>because you were talking with Ronan about the YOC Mike

0:18:59.520 --> 0:19:02.840
<v Speaker 1>Pompeo meeting that set in motion maximum Pressure. And I

0:19:03.280 --> 0:19:07.080
<v Speaker 1>think your episodes are fabulous. I recommend it to everyone. Aaron,

0:19:07.160 --> 0:19:11.720
<v Speaker 1>here my question. There are six objectives in the Islamabad

0:19:11.760 --> 0:19:14.600
<v Speaker 1>two point zero. I am personally afraid of Munich two

0:19:14.640 --> 0:19:18.920
<v Speaker 1>point zero happening. Here are the objectives. No enrichment, not now,

0:19:19.040 --> 0:19:22.120
<v Speaker 1>not ever, and never get the HU back, whether it's

0:19:22.200 --> 0:19:25.440
<v Speaker 1>dust or whether it's in some kind of usable open

0:19:25.480 --> 0:19:29.960
<v Speaker 1>the straight of course, limits on missiles, ballistic missiles, maybe

0:19:29.960 --> 0:19:34.439
<v Speaker 1>no ballistic missile, the end of proxies, and Internet for

0:19:34.480 --> 0:19:37.920
<v Speaker 1>the people. What's a win from those six objectives?

0:19:39.480 --> 0:19:42.960
<v Speaker 7>Well, I think that's a very reasonable set of objectives

0:19:43.040 --> 0:19:45.960
<v Speaker 7>you just articulated, Hugh. It concerns me some of the

0:19:46.080 --> 0:19:48.119
<v Speaker 7>you know, it's hard to verify these reports, but some

0:19:48.200 --> 0:19:51.040
<v Speaker 7>of the reports you see circulating about what actually the

0:19:51.040 --> 0:19:53.800
<v Speaker 7>working terms of a potential deal are fall pretty far

0:19:53.880 --> 0:19:55.240
<v Speaker 7>short of what you're describing.

0:19:55.640 --> 0:19:56.560
<v Speaker 8>I'm also concerned.

0:19:56.640 --> 0:19:59.360
<v Speaker 7>You see the re emergencies language are sort of moderates

0:19:59.359 --> 0:20:02.240
<v Speaker 7>and hardline in Iran, and there does I mean, to

0:20:02.280 --> 0:20:05.120
<v Speaker 7>be fair, there does seem to be this divergence between

0:20:05.400 --> 0:20:07.040
<v Speaker 7>a group of Iranians at the top who would be

0:20:07.040 --> 0:20:09.119
<v Speaker 7>comfortable with some kind of deal, and a group of

0:20:09.160 --> 0:20:11.119
<v Speaker 7>Iranians who are opposed to any kind of deal. But

0:20:11.200 --> 0:20:12.600
<v Speaker 7>you have to keep in mind even the ones that

0:20:12.640 --> 0:20:15.160
<v Speaker 7>are pro deal in some fashion, they're going to drive

0:20:15.200 --> 0:20:16.080
<v Speaker 7>a pretty hard bargain.

0:20:16.280 --> 0:20:17.200
<v Speaker 4>It's just what they do.

0:20:17.400 --> 0:20:19.439
<v Speaker 7>They're pretty good at this, and so it's hard to imagine,

0:20:19.480 --> 0:20:22.639
<v Speaker 7>for example, them simply relinquishing control over the Strait of

0:20:22.640 --> 0:20:25.680
<v Speaker 7>Warmous completely. That's their major leverage over the United States

0:20:25.680 --> 0:20:27.879
<v Speaker 7>and over the world. It's hard to imagine them simply

0:20:27.920 --> 0:20:31.679
<v Speaker 7>agreeing to zero enrichment and complete dismantlement, which is certainly

0:20:31.680 --> 0:20:33.879
<v Speaker 7>on the zero and rushment front, a goal that President

0:20:33.920 --> 0:20:36.520
<v Speaker 7>Trump has articulated repeatedly, not just in the last few weeks,

0:20:36.560 --> 0:20:39.840
<v Speaker 7>but really since he's returned to office since spring of

0:20:39.960 --> 0:20:43.040
<v Speaker 7>last year. Really, so, I think there's some pretty rough

0:20:43.080 --> 0:20:45.800
<v Speaker 7>waters ahead, and the major leverage they have is the

0:20:45.880 --> 0:20:49.000
<v Speaker 7>straight and I continue to be I suppose a bit

0:20:49.040 --> 0:20:54.240
<v Speaker 7>perplexed at why this administration has not been more proactive

0:20:54.240 --> 0:20:57.399
<v Speaker 7>and it's planning for an execution for getting friendly shipping

0:20:57.480 --> 0:20:59.480
<v Speaker 7>up and running excuse me through the Strait again.

0:21:00.320 --> 0:21:04.240
<v Speaker 1>They did run a couple of Haarley Burke destroyers through

0:21:04.280 --> 0:21:08.560
<v Speaker 1>the Strait early in the announcement before the IRGC renegged.

0:21:08.840 --> 0:21:11.120
<v Speaker 1>Let me talk to you a bit about the hardliners moderates.

0:21:11.640 --> 0:21:14.080
<v Speaker 1>If you hung with the regime after they murdered tens

0:21:14.119 --> 0:21:16.280
<v Speaker 1>of thousands of their people, you don't get to call

0:21:16.320 --> 0:21:19.399
<v Speaker 1>yourself a moderate. That's they're all hard liners, but some

0:21:19.440 --> 0:21:22.320
<v Speaker 1>of them have guns. It's the hardliners with guns who

0:21:22.320 --> 0:21:24.560
<v Speaker 1>are running things. Is that a better way of saying it.

0:21:25.840 --> 0:21:28.359
<v Speaker 7>Yeah, I think that's absolutely right. So it's true that

0:21:28.400 --> 0:21:30.919
<v Speaker 7>there are divisions. Iran has the politics, but it's a

0:21:30.920 --> 0:21:34.760
<v Speaker 7>politics amongst radicals. It's just different gradations of radicals and

0:21:34.800 --> 0:21:36.159
<v Speaker 7>different approaches.

0:21:35.680 --> 0:21:38.640
<v Speaker 4>To relative pragmatism amongst.

0:21:38.320 --> 0:21:41.800
<v Speaker 7>Them, but all in service of radical revolutionary aims and

0:21:41.920 --> 0:21:45.760
<v Speaker 7>ultimately with the goal of preserving this revolutionary regime. They

0:21:45.840 --> 0:21:48.119
<v Speaker 7>just disagree about how best to go about it. The

0:21:48.280 --> 0:21:52.200
<v Speaker 7>relatively more pragmatic ones want to come to some kind

0:21:52.200 --> 0:21:53.120
<v Speaker 7>of accommodation in.

0:21:53.080 --> 0:21:54.320
<v Speaker 4>String the United States along.

0:21:54.400 --> 0:21:57.200
<v Speaker 7>Basically the more radical ones think that they're actually winning

0:21:57.720 --> 0:22:00.160
<v Speaker 7>and that they can somehow defeat the United States, which

0:22:00.160 --> 0:22:01.879
<v Speaker 7>I think is a pretty dangerous game to be playing

0:22:01.880 --> 0:22:02.800
<v Speaker 7>with the Trump administration.

0:22:03.440 --> 0:22:07.120
<v Speaker 1>Now. In terms of the two mews, I'm sure you've

0:22:07.160 --> 0:22:09.440
<v Speaker 1>been on a mew during your career in the Marines.

0:22:09.480 --> 0:22:11.119
<v Speaker 1>If it last, if you got up to captain, you

0:22:11.200 --> 0:22:14.240
<v Speaker 1>must have floated around somewhere. Sometimes they don't do anything

0:22:14.280 --> 0:22:17.080
<v Speaker 1>on a mew. What do you think they're there for.

0:22:17.160 --> 0:22:20.040
<v Speaker 1>I know they took control marines of some sort, took

0:22:20.080 --> 0:22:23.760
<v Speaker 1>control of the cargo ship that we were towing somewhere,

0:22:23.800 --> 0:22:25.800
<v Speaker 1>But what do you think the mews are there for?

0:22:27.680 --> 0:22:30.000
<v Speaker 7>Well, the MEWS or tailor made for the kinds of

0:22:30.000 --> 0:22:32.359
<v Speaker 7>mission sets that they're doing right now. So supporting a

0:22:32.359 --> 0:22:36.400
<v Speaker 7>blockade with these visit board, search and c's missions, MUS

0:22:36.440 --> 0:22:39.040
<v Speaker 7>can absolutely do that. Those marines can go in from

0:22:39.080 --> 0:22:41.440
<v Speaker 7>the air, they can go in on small boats, whatever

0:22:41.560 --> 0:22:43.440
<v Speaker 7>really is required. I will say you I was in

0:22:43.480 --> 0:22:45.520
<v Speaker 7>the Marines at the sort of peak post nine to

0:22:45.520 --> 0:22:48.399
<v Speaker 7>eleven period, so my seven years were two thousand and

0:22:48.440 --> 0:22:51.000
<v Speaker 7>seven to twenty fourteen. I was on a boat for

0:22:51.119 --> 0:22:54.240
<v Speaker 7>exactly four hours during that time for a tour during

0:22:54.280 --> 0:22:56.640
<v Speaker 7>the basic school. It was all it was all desert

0:22:56.640 --> 0:22:59.240
<v Speaker 7>time for me, either training or Afghanistan. But plenty of

0:22:59.240 --> 0:23:02.440
<v Speaker 7>my friends served on MUS. These are very capable task forces.

0:23:02.600 --> 0:23:04.840
<v Speaker 7>They're kind of small. I think people don't realize that

0:23:05.040 --> 0:23:08.080
<v Speaker 7>you're really only talking about one thousand plus, you know,

0:23:08.200 --> 0:23:11.679
<v Speaker 7>ground combat marines, but heavily plussed up by you know,

0:23:11.680 --> 0:23:14.880
<v Speaker 7>this aviation element, all kinds of enablers. They're very very capable,

0:23:15.119 --> 0:23:18.200
<v Speaker 7>also capable if the planners believe that there needs to

0:23:18.240 --> 0:23:21.359
<v Speaker 7>be some kind of ground element and reopening traffic in

0:23:21.400 --> 0:23:24.640
<v Speaker 7>the strait. The MEW is also tailor made for seizing

0:23:24.680 --> 0:23:26.960
<v Speaker 7>and operating on the kinds of small pieces of terrain

0:23:27.000 --> 0:23:28.879
<v Speaker 7>that are out there in and around the Strait of

0:23:28.920 --> 0:23:31.399
<v Speaker 7>Hour moves to facilitate something like that. I saw, as

0:23:31.440 --> 0:23:34.280
<v Speaker 7>you did, he those two Navy ships go through at

0:23:34.280 --> 0:23:37.479
<v Speaker 7>the start of at the start of the blockade. And

0:23:37.520 --> 0:23:41.119
<v Speaker 7>I've seen reports that we're using drones essentially drone U

0:23:41.800 --> 0:23:44.399
<v Speaker 7>submersibles to clear the mind to clear the straight of minds.

0:23:44.520 --> 0:23:46.359
<v Speaker 7>I think those are very positive reports. I would like

0:23:46.400 --> 0:23:48.720
<v Speaker 7>to see more of that. It reminds me a bit

0:23:48.800 --> 0:23:52.280
<v Speaker 7>of the hostages in Gaza. When the Trump administration succeeded

0:23:52.280 --> 0:23:54.720
<v Speaker 7>in getting the hostages out of Gaza, all of a sudden,

0:23:54.760 --> 0:23:57.000
<v Speaker 7>there was so much more latitude and so much freedom

0:23:57.040 --> 0:23:59.040
<v Speaker 7>to operate with the Hamas problem. If we could get

0:23:59.040 --> 0:24:01.080
<v Speaker 7>the straight up home moves open again, there'd just be

0:24:01.160 --> 0:24:03.639
<v Speaker 7>so much more latitude and freedom to operate visa vi

0:24:03.720 --> 0:24:03.960
<v Speaker 7>ir in.

0:24:04.760 --> 0:24:07.680
<v Speaker 1>So. I listened to Jack Keane a lot on Fox Aaron,

0:24:07.920 --> 0:24:11.120
<v Speaker 1>and he is the hawks hawk. He does not want

0:24:11.160 --> 0:24:13.960
<v Speaker 1>to let take the boot off their neck at all.

0:24:14.000 --> 0:24:17.040
<v Speaker 1>He wants to if anything stuck with both feet on it.

0:24:17.920 --> 0:24:20.920
<v Speaker 1>Where are you on the Jack Keane approach to this thing?

0:24:21.119 --> 0:24:24.680
<v Speaker 1>Is there, in fact a real possibility of negotiating with

0:24:25.320 --> 0:24:27.720
<v Speaker 1>a terror regime that has lied to us for forty

0:24:27.760 --> 0:24:30.320
<v Speaker 1>seven years. In the CIA Museum, by the way, they

0:24:30.320 --> 0:24:32.159
<v Speaker 1>have a picture of the embassy blown up and the

0:24:32.200 --> 0:24:35.160
<v Speaker 1>bet barricks blown up. Yeah.

0:24:35.320 --> 0:24:37.560
<v Speaker 7>Well, I'm the Camp Lajoon Marine, so those guys from

0:24:37.560 --> 0:24:40.080
<v Speaker 7>eight Marines are always close to our hearts, though.

0:24:39.960 --> 0:24:43.280
<v Speaker 4>I was in six Marines. Look, I'm skeptical.

0:24:43.520 --> 0:24:47.199
<v Speaker 7>I'm skeptical that even the so called moderates or wherever

0:24:47.200 --> 0:24:51.879
<v Speaker 7>we want to frame it, would offer anything like an

0:24:51.920 --> 0:24:54.800
<v Speaker 7>acceptable deal that comes close to the objectives you outlined

0:24:54.800 --> 0:24:57.359
<v Speaker 7>at the start of our conversation. I also think the

0:24:57.359 --> 0:25:00.800
<v Speaker 7>odds are pretty high that, you know, for example, the

0:25:00.840 --> 0:25:04.760
<v Speaker 7>IRGC would veto anything that even came close in that direction,

0:25:05.000 --> 0:25:08.560
<v Speaker 7>like we saw on Friday when the Iranian Foreign Minister

0:25:08.680 --> 0:25:11.200
<v Speaker 7>announced that the Strait was open, which, by the way,

0:25:11.200 --> 0:25:13.919
<v Speaker 7>that wasn't entirely right. He said it was open if

0:25:14.000 --> 0:25:16.439
<v Speaker 7>you follow our shipping lanes, which is a is not

0:25:16.480 --> 0:25:18.680
<v Speaker 7>good enough, and that's a complicated topic we could get into.

0:25:18.680 --> 0:25:20.280
<v Speaker 7>But he said it was more open than it had been,

0:25:20.440 --> 0:25:22.800
<v Speaker 7>and he saw the IRGC immediately veto that and start

0:25:22.840 --> 0:25:24.640
<v Speaker 7>shooting at ships and announcing the ships in the Strait

0:25:24.680 --> 0:25:26.359
<v Speaker 7>they had to turn around and go back. We could

0:25:26.400 --> 0:25:29.600
<v Speaker 7>easily see behavior like that after some sort of agreement

0:25:29.640 --> 0:25:31.439
<v Speaker 7>had been reached. So I do think the odds of

0:25:31.440 --> 0:25:33.879
<v Speaker 7>a return to some kind of combat operations here are

0:25:33.920 --> 0:25:36.240
<v Speaker 7>pretty high. And for all that, you know, it's possible

0:25:36.240 --> 0:25:38.520
<v Speaker 7>to talk about some of the strategic problems that we

0:25:38.600 --> 0:25:41.080
<v Speaker 7>face right now. The truth is the Iranians that the

0:25:41.119 --> 0:25:43.760
<v Speaker 7>regime is in terrible shape. They were in terrible shape

0:25:43.760 --> 0:25:46.280
<v Speaker 7>before this war started. You do need cash to run

0:25:46.280 --> 0:25:48.960
<v Speaker 7>a regime. You do need electrical power to run a regime.

0:25:49.040 --> 0:25:52.040
<v Speaker 7>You do need access to maritime trade if you're Iran,

0:25:52.520 --> 0:25:54.640
<v Speaker 7>and we have the power to basically deny them all

0:25:54.640 --> 0:25:56.119
<v Speaker 7>of those things, at which point it's going to.

0:25:56.119 --> 0:25:58.200
<v Speaker 4>Be pretty hard to run a Bananastand.

0:25:58.280 --> 0:26:03.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Aaron, I remember General Madis's wonderful memoir call Signed Chaos.

0:26:03.920 --> 0:26:06.720
<v Speaker 1>He read it with bang West, and in that he

0:26:06.840 --> 0:26:10.280
<v Speaker 1>describes how they did a mew from the middle. You know,

0:26:10.320 --> 0:26:14.200
<v Speaker 1>Afghanistan's got no coach line, but they jumped over everyone

0:26:14.240 --> 0:26:16.240
<v Speaker 1>and they landed the Marines in the middle of the desert,

0:26:16.280 --> 0:26:18.720
<v Speaker 1>and they caught the Taliban in a pincer. So the

0:26:18.760 --> 0:26:21.359
<v Speaker 1>Marines can pretty much go anywhere they want. My question

0:26:21.400 --> 0:26:22.760
<v Speaker 1>is we got one minute. How did they get him

0:26:22.760 --> 0:26:24.240
<v Speaker 1>out of there once they deploy a mew.

0:26:26.000 --> 0:26:26.320
<v Speaker 8>Yeah.

0:26:26.359 --> 0:26:28.760
<v Speaker 7>So you know, some of these deployments that I was

0:26:28.800 --> 0:26:30.680
<v Speaker 7>referencing a minute two ago in and around the Strait

0:26:30.720 --> 0:26:32.639
<v Speaker 7>up Ourmuz, you know, would be sort of on the

0:26:32.640 --> 0:26:35.320
<v Speaker 7>periphery of Iran, so probably a little bit less exposed

0:26:35.320 --> 0:26:37.120
<v Speaker 7>to some of the problems you cite. But you see

0:26:37.160 --> 0:26:39.199
<v Speaker 7>some of these operations mooted, you know, for example, an

0:26:39.200 --> 0:26:43.920
<v Speaker 7>operation to seize or Aanian nuclear materials in the face

0:26:43.920 --> 0:26:46.800
<v Speaker 7>of enemy opposition. Excuse me, I don't think that would

0:26:46.800 --> 0:26:49.560
<v Speaker 7>necessarily be the Marines. I think you're more likely to

0:26:49.600 --> 0:26:53.640
<v Speaker 7>see the US Army Special Operations Forces in so Calm

0:26:53.640 --> 0:26:56.120
<v Speaker 7>and Jaysock do that kind of thing, and that is,

0:26:56.280 --> 0:27:00.000
<v Speaker 7>you know, an extremely risky operation. But I could see

0:27:00.080 --> 0:27:01.960
<v Speaker 7>the President ordering if he felt that was the only

0:27:02.080 --> 0:27:03.560
<v Speaker 7>way to get the highly enricheranium.

0:27:04.600 --> 0:27:07.840
<v Speaker 1>Aaron B. McClain follow him on Etsit. Aaron B. McClain

0:27:08.119 --> 0:27:10.760
<v Speaker 1>like and follows school of War, Read him in the

0:27:10.800 --> 0:27:13.680
<v Speaker 1>Free Press, see him on CBS, Evenian News where he's

0:27:13.680 --> 0:27:16.480
<v Speaker 1>the National Security correspondent. Now, thank you, Aeron. Look forward

0:27:16.520 --> 0:27:19.240
<v Speaker 1>to having you back, They'll go anywhere America. Noah Rothman

0:27:19.320 --> 0:27:27.919
<v Speaker 1>is next. Welcome Back America. I'm Hugh Hewitt inside the

0:27:27.960 --> 0:27:31.879
<v Speaker 1>Relief Factors studio. Noah C. Rothman, senior writer with National Review,

0:27:31.920 --> 0:27:36.720
<v Speaker 1>frequent contributor to the Editor's podcast on the National Review,

0:27:36.760 --> 0:27:39.760
<v Speaker 1>occasionally sits in on the commentary podcast. He's always the

0:27:39.760 --> 0:27:41.800
<v Speaker 1>hawks hawk, which is what I like. No and I

0:27:41.840 --> 0:27:44.600
<v Speaker 1>agree on pretty much everything. Noah, I got a pit

0:27:44.680 --> 0:27:47.760
<v Speaker 1>in my stomach feeling about the Islamabad two point zero.

0:27:47.800 --> 0:27:50.359
<v Speaker 1>I'm afraid it's Munich two point oh. What do you think?

0:27:52.640 --> 0:27:55.240
<v Speaker 9>I don't know yet. What we had over the weekend

0:27:55.359 --> 0:27:59.560
<v Speaker 9>was a lot of ephemeral noise about the prospects of

0:27:59.800 --> 0:28:04.679
<v Speaker 9>a negotiation under the terms that were being negotiated. It

0:28:04.760 --> 0:28:06.919
<v Speaker 9>was all very vague, and I didn't think very much

0:28:06.920 --> 0:28:09.000
<v Speaker 9>of it held up over the course of the weekend.

0:28:09.440 --> 0:28:11.639
<v Speaker 9>What did hold up was a lot of movement in

0:28:11.680 --> 0:28:14.040
<v Speaker 9>the strait of war moves, much of it very desirable

0:28:14.040 --> 0:28:15.000
<v Speaker 9>from my perspective.

0:28:15.720 --> 0:28:16.359
<v Speaker 4>The seizure of.

0:28:16.359 --> 0:28:20.280
<v Speaker 9>The to Tauska, or this dual use tanker, which had

0:28:21.920 --> 0:28:27.000
<v Speaker 9>possible materials that can be used for military capabilities, demonstrated

0:28:27.000 --> 0:28:29.480
<v Speaker 9>that the United States has teeth associated with this blockade,

0:28:29.480 --> 0:28:33.520
<v Speaker 9>and it's not just talking about interdicting ships or forcing

0:28:33.600 --> 0:28:37.720
<v Speaker 9>those that are compliant to engage and respect the terms

0:28:37.760 --> 0:28:41.800
<v Speaker 9>of the blockade. It's enforcing those militarily and succeeding in

0:28:41.840 --> 0:28:43.840
<v Speaker 9>doing so. And then we had the statement from Chi

0:28:43.960 --> 0:28:49.560
<v Speaker 9>Chimping today, who this blockade I think is aimed at influencing, saying,

0:28:49.600 --> 0:28:52.160
<v Speaker 9>you know, we not naming the United States or Iran

0:28:52.200 --> 0:28:54.640
<v Speaker 9>as being the primary reason for the blockade in the

0:28:54.640 --> 0:28:57.640
<v Speaker 9>first place. So the problem with you know, commercial traffic

0:28:57.680 --> 0:28:59.960
<v Speaker 9>not being able to leave the straight, and he's just saying, well,

0:29:00.040 --> 0:29:02.400
<v Speaker 9>international law contends that we should opened the straight, or

0:29:02.440 --> 0:29:04.160
<v Speaker 9>as straight should be open to commercial trapping.

0:29:04.160 --> 0:29:06.080
<v Speaker 4>Point blank. That's desirable.

0:29:06.120 --> 0:29:08.600
<v Speaker 9>From my perspective, I think China was the reason why

0:29:08.640 --> 0:29:10.520
<v Speaker 9>we had Islam about one point zero in the first place,

0:29:10.600 --> 0:29:13.240
<v Speaker 9>so we want them to exert more pressure on this regime.

0:29:13.280 --> 0:29:14.920
<v Speaker 4>And the regime is clearly at war with itself.

0:29:14.960 --> 0:29:18.360
<v Speaker 9>The RGC is going after got belief and a ragachi,

0:29:18.400 --> 0:29:21.200
<v Speaker 9>the political officials saying outright that they have no idea

0:29:21.240 --> 0:29:23.560
<v Speaker 9>what they're talking about, and they can't really speak for

0:29:23.760 --> 0:29:26.400
<v Speaker 9>the regime. So we're starting to see the conditions that

0:29:26.440 --> 0:29:31.120
<v Speaker 9>we want. I don't know why we would prematurely interrupt

0:29:31.360 --> 0:29:34.520
<v Speaker 9>the conditions that we've the evolution of the conditions that

0:29:34.560 --> 0:29:37.760
<v Speaker 9>we've midwiped into existence here. They're all desirable from our perspective.

0:29:37.800 --> 0:29:40.480
<v Speaker 9>It's just that we're up against the artificial timeline when

0:29:40.480 --> 0:29:44.200
<v Speaker 9>the ceasefire collapses tomorrow night, and we're not quite where

0:29:44.200 --> 0:29:45.080
<v Speaker 9>we want to be yet.

0:29:45.120 --> 0:29:47.280
<v Speaker 4>But the Readian regime certainly isn't either.

0:29:47.880 --> 0:29:49.760
<v Speaker 1>Well let me spike. Let me tell you what would

0:29:49.880 --> 0:29:54.200
<v Speaker 1>lead me to spike the football. Noah, we would. They

0:29:54.200 --> 0:29:56.760
<v Speaker 1>get no enrichment ever, not now, not ever, never, not

0:29:56.840 --> 0:29:59.960
<v Speaker 1>in fifteen, not in twenty. They don't get enrichment. Number two,

0:30:00.000 --> 0:30:03.440
<v Speaker 1>so we get the nuclear desk, the highly enriched uranium.

0:30:03.520 --> 0:30:05.360
<v Speaker 1>I don't know how we do it. They can work

0:30:05.400 --> 0:30:07.480
<v Speaker 1>that out, but they commit to us doing it and

0:30:07.520 --> 0:30:10.040
<v Speaker 1>we can enforce it later. Straight has to be open.

0:30:10.080 --> 0:30:12.040
<v Speaker 1>Those are the big three. Now. The second three is

0:30:12.360 --> 0:30:15.600
<v Speaker 1>no more support for your proxies. That means from usis stranded,

0:30:15.680 --> 0:30:20.040
<v Speaker 1>has belives stranded. Bhuti's getting nothing more. Number four is

0:30:20.400 --> 0:30:24.240
<v Speaker 1>number five is something for the Iranian people. I don't

0:30:24.240 --> 0:30:26.560
<v Speaker 1>know what is. Maybe it's turning on the internet. Maybe

0:30:26.640 --> 0:30:30.160
<v Speaker 1>it's even an acknowledgment that they killed twenty five thirty

0:30:30.240 --> 0:30:33.280
<v Speaker 1>forty thousand people and we won't do it again. And

0:30:33.320 --> 0:30:38.000
<v Speaker 1>then finally, and this is the hardest one, to describe

0:30:38.240 --> 0:30:41.200
<v Speaker 1>some sort of control on their missile program that is

0:30:41.240 --> 0:30:43.840
<v Speaker 1>subject to inspection anywhere anytime. What do you make of

0:30:43.880 --> 0:30:44.320
<v Speaker 1>my list?

0:30:46.320 --> 0:30:48.800
<v Speaker 9>I mean it is the maximalist list. I share all

0:30:48.800 --> 0:30:51.440
<v Speaker 9>those objectives. I think a lot of them. The Arenia

0:30:51.480 --> 0:30:55.120
<v Speaker 9>regime could not agree to without essentially concurring that the

0:30:55.240 --> 0:30:59.000
<v Speaker 9>Uranian regime should not exist. The Ernie regime defines itself

0:30:59.000 --> 0:31:02.160
<v Speaker 9>in opposition to the States in Israel militarily, and to

0:31:02.200 --> 0:31:05.600
<v Speaker 9>sever its relationship with its terarrist proxies has Bulo, most significantly,

0:31:06.200 --> 0:31:08.560
<v Speaker 9>I think, would be tantamount to it admitting that the

0:31:08.600 --> 0:31:12.560
<v Speaker 9>Islamic Republic's modus for endi it's raizondetra is just no

0:31:12.640 --> 0:31:16.440
<v Speaker 9>longer operative, and that would functionally mean regime change, and

0:31:16.560 --> 0:31:19.720
<v Speaker 9>the regime officials would probably fear for their lives and

0:31:19.960 --> 0:31:25.160
<v Speaker 9>act accordingly. Everything else sounds not too horribly unreasonable, even

0:31:25.160 --> 0:31:28.360
<v Speaker 9>the missile protections. If this regime was very serious about

0:31:28.680 --> 0:31:32.320
<v Speaker 9>getting to terms that would be a durable peace settlement

0:31:32.360 --> 0:31:34.200
<v Speaker 9>with the United States and israel I just don't think

0:31:34.200 --> 0:31:36.960
<v Speaker 9>that it has that interest. It needs to be forced

0:31:36.960 --> 0:31:40.240
<v Speaker 9>into capitulation, and it's not quite there yet. But yeah,

0:31:40.280 --> 0:31:42.880
<v Speaker 9>I agree that the surrendering of the highly enrich uranium

0:31:43.120 --> 0:31:45.520
<v Speaker 9>should be a huge undertaking. If it is, as we believe,

0:31:46.240 --> 0:31:49.440
<v Speaker 9>under several thousand tons of lightly irradiated rubble at these

0:31:49.520 --> 0:31:51.800
<v Speaker 9>nuclear sites, that wouldn't be something that we could just

0:31:51.920 --> 0:31:53.880
<v Speaker 9>go in and do. If the United States were to

0:31:53.920 --> 0:31:55.959
<v Speaker 9>be in charge of that operation, we'd be erecting a

0:31:55.960 --> 0:32:00.400
<v Speaker 9>small city around these places and kurd conducting excavation operations

0:32:00.600 --> 0:32:01.520
<v Speaker 9>as a sitting target.

0:32:01.560 --> 0:32:03.360
<v Speaker 4>It's not something that I think the United States would

0:32:03.360 --> 0:32:03.840
<v Speaker 4>want to do.

0:32:03.880 --> 0:32:06.240
<v Speaker 9>So this is an Iranian project or an international project

0:32:06.320 --> 0:32:08.960
<v Speaker 9>under the IAEA, but it's not.

0:32:08.880 --> 0:32:09.560
<v Speaker 4>Something that the area.

0:32:09.880 --> 0:32:13.360
<v Speaker 9>It's unreasonable to ask, nor is it unreasonable to demand

0:32:13.440 --> 0:32:16.640
<v Speaker 9>that there be limits on the Iranian ballistic missile program.

0:32:16.720 --> 0:32:18.760
<v Speaker 4>The Ranians fired off a two stage.

0:32:18.560 --> 0:32:21.720
<v Speaker 9>Ballistic missile at the Diego Garcia, well beyond what they

0:32:21.760 --> 0:32:24.360
<v Speaker 9>said they had and well beyond what ey country needs.

0:32:24.480 --> 0:32:28.280
<v Speaker 9>Unless it's developing a non conventional deterrent, you don't need

0:32:28.680 --> 0:32:31.200
<v Speaker 9>a two stage missile that can travel four thousand kilometers

0:32:31.240 --> 0:32:34.880
<v Speaker 9>to develop a con to deliver a conventional warhead anywhere

0:32:34.880 --> 0:32:35.520
<v Speaker 9>on the planet Earth.

0:32:35.520 --> 0:32:36.720
<v Speaker 4>It's just not necessary.

0:32:36.920 --> 0:32:39.680
<v Speaker 9>You can't muster enough force to make that cost benefit

0:32:39.760 --> 0:32:42.600
<v Speaker 9>necessary unless there's a conventional warhead on the top of

0:32:42.640 --> 0:32:42.920
<v Speaker 9>that thing.

0:32:43.680 --> 0:32:46.040
<v Speaker 1>No, I don't often get to say this. This is

0:32:46.080 --> 0:32:47.640
<v Speaker 1>the second time I've been able to say it in

0:32:47.720 --> 0:32:51.000
<v Speaker 1>my life. I was at the CIA yesterday in Langley,

0:32:51.720 --> 0:32:53.840
<v Speaker 1>and it was because of the portrait hanging in Mike Bompeo.

0:32:53.880 --> 0:32:55.440
<v Speaker 1>It's not like it was. I was there for a briefing,

0:32:55.480 --> 0:32:57.920
<v Speaker 1>but I was talking to a pretty smart character, and

0:32:57.960 --> 0:33:02.040
<v Speaker 1>the pretty smart character said, we can establish a perimeter

0:33:02.560 --> 0:33:05.640
<v Speaker 1>that opens up so much around the site that our

0:33:05.680 --> 0:33:08.200
<v Speaker 1>A tens can destroy anyone who approaches it. If we

0:33:08.280 --> 0:33:10.120
<v Speaker 1>want to go get the hgu they have to agree

0:33:10.120 --> 0:33:12.120
<v Speaker 1>to give us a perimeter that gives us enough time

0:33:12.160 --> 0:33:17.720
<v Speaker 1>to respond if any hostiles approach. In other words, given

0:33:17.800 --> 0:33:20.280
<v Speaker 1>the thumb sign to demand the uranium and go dig

0:33:20.320 --> 0:33:24.040
<v Speaker 1>it out yourself, don't let them do it, and they

0:33:24.120 --> 0:33:27.880
<v Speaker 1>just agree to stay away from if Shahan or food

0:33:28.240 --> 0:33:31.320
<v Speaker 1>or wherever we think it is. If they agree to,

0:33:32.040 --> 0:33:34.520
<v Speaker 1>if they're collapsing, if the hunt that just wants to survive.

0:33:34.600 --> 0:33:37.600
<v Speaker 1>They'll agree to anything, right, But.

0:33:37.560 --> 0:33:39.840
<v Speaker 4>That's what it would mean. I'm not saying that we

0:33:39.880 --> 0:33:40.560
<v Speaker 4>couldn't do it.

0:33:40.640 --> 0:33:43.320
<v Speaker 9>When we had this rescue operation for this F fifteen

0:33:43.440 --> 0:33:47.240
<v Speaker 9>E pilot, we established a small air base inside a

0:33:47.320 --> 0:33:48.720
<v Speaker 9>run thirty miles from Issahan.

0:33:49.160 --> 0:33:50.560
<v Speaker 4>That's something we can do.

0:33:50.680 --> 0:33:53.560
<v Speaker 9>It's not desirable and it's certainly not something the Ranian

0:33:53.640 --> 0:33:56.720
<v Speaker 9>regime would agree to unless it we're in the throes

0:33:56.760 --> 0:33:59.840
<v Speaker 9>of something like a collapse. If not a radical behavior changed,

0:33:59.840 --> 0:34:02.840
<v Speaker 9>that basically functionally tantamount to regime change.

0:34:03.080 --> 0:34:04.240
<v Speaker 4>So I mean, we're talking.

0:34:03.960 --> 0:34:07.120
<v Speaker 9>About a big chance, a big shift of the character

0:34:07.160 --> 0:34:10.160
<v Speaker 9>of this regime across the board from just about all

0:34:10.200 --> 0:34:13.560
<v Speaker 9>those asks, especially if we were to talk about some

0:34:13.560 --> 0:34:16.279
<v Speaker 9>sort of beneficence to the Iranian people, like turning the

0:34:16.280 --> 0:34:18.760
<v Speaker 9>Internet back on. And the foremost concern of this regime

0:34:18.840 --> 0:34:20.160
<v Speaker 9>is that its own people are going to come to

0:34:20.160 --> 0:34:23.279
<v Speaker 9>get them, as they have with pretty metronomic regularity over

0:34:23.320 --> 0:34:25.040
<v Speaker 9>the course of the last few years, and then the

0:34:25.040 --> 0:34:27.239
<v Speaker 9>next time they do so, they will not be confronted

0:34:27.680 --> 0:34:30.880
<v Speaker 9>with the terror apparatus that the Iranian regime had in

0:34:30.920 --> 0:34:34.600
<v Speaker 9>its control previously. So there's a lot of more, there's

0:34:34.600 --> 0:34:36.600
<v Speaker 9>more pressure to be brought to bear into this regime.

0:34:36.760 --> 0:34:39.960
<v Speaker 9>But if it wants to survive, you know, there's certain

0:34:40.000 --> 0:34:42.680
<v Speaker 9>elements that it just in its conception, cannot agree to.

0:34:42.800 --> 0:34:48.560
<v Speaker 4>It cannot give what's the and I'd love to see

0:34:48.600 --> 0:34:49.360
<v Speaker 4>all of those.

0:34:49.200 --> 0:34:51.680
<v Speaker 1>All what's the minimum that we come back And it's

0:34:51.680 --> 0:34:52.919
<v Speaker 1>not Munich two point zero.

0:34:54.440 --> 0:34:57.480
<v Speaker 9>It has to be the set the agreed upon with

0:34:57.560 --> 0:34:59.640
<v Speaker 9>a with a means to get there, and not just

0:34:59.719 --> 0:35:03.719
<v Speaker 9>in principle a set of means to a mechanism to

0:35:03.880 --> 0:35:06.480
<v Speaker 9>enforce this. That's the surrender of the highly enriched uranium

0:35:06.520 --> 0:35:10.440
<v Speaker 9>and all enriched uranium in Uran's custody. Its capacity to develop,

0:35:10.520 --> 0:35:13.520
<v Speaker 9>to spin up these centrifuges and enrich uranium further is

0:35:13.880 --> 0:35:16.640
<v Speaker 9>pretty well degraded. So I'm coomfortable with that. But that's

0:35:16.840 --> 0:35:19.480
<v Speaker 9>you know, that's not a permanent solution. So surrendering of

0:35:19.520 --> 0:35:23.040
<v Speaker 9>the uranium of the uranium is goal number one. Number

0:35:23.040 --> 0:35:26.600
<v Speaker 9>two is the free open maritime navigation of the Strait of.

0:35:26.520 --> 0:35:28.240
<v Speaker 4>Hormuz to all commercial traffic.

0:35:28.360 --> 0:35:32.520
<v Speaker 9>That's just something that should be a baseline condition for negotiations, much.

0:35:32.360 --> 0:35:33.960
<v Speaker 4>Less a durable peace settlement.

0:35:34.560 --> 0:35:37.239
<v Speaker 9>And you know, anything else after that is, in my view,

0:35:37.280 --> 0:35:40.319
<v Speaker 9>pretty much gravy. We went into this saying that we

0:35:40.320 --> 0:35:42.840
<v Speaker 9>were going to strip them of their ability to develop

0:35:42.840 --> 0:35:47.200
<v Speaker 9>a nuclear weapon, delivering a nuclear weapon, funding terrorism. That's

0:35:47.239 --> 0:35:50.239
<v Speaker 9>all really bad, but it's perhaps outside the scope of

0:35:50.239 --> 0:35:51.879
<v Speaker 9>a negotiated piece, which is not the.

0:35:51.880 --> 0:35:53.840
<v Speaker 4>End of our dealings with Iran.

0:35:53.960 --> 0:35:58.600
<v Speaker 9>The next stage is fomenting insurrectionary rebellion inside the Islamic.

0:35:58.320 --> 0:36:03.440
<v Speaker 1>Republic, said as always nos c Rosman, Bamjacs at NOSC

0:36:03.640 --> 0:36:05.600
<v Speaker 1>Rosman read him in the National View and of course

0:36:05.600 --> 0:36:08.480
<v Speaker 1>with Sensorium on the editors, I'll be right now. Thank

0:36:08.520 --> 0:36:11.640
<v Speaker 1>you for listening to highly concentrated Hugh. And don't forget

0:36:11.640 --> 0:36:14.480
<v Speaker 1>one of our great sponsors is Consumer Sellular one eight

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<v Speaker 1>and everybody he can be under fifty, you can be

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<v Speaker 1>over fifty. Everybody gets their second month free when you

0:37:17.560 --> 0:37:22.240
<v Speaker 1>use my name, Hugh. Selena Zeito is President Trump's favorite journalist.

0:37:22.280 --> 0:37:24.680
<v Speaker 1>You can also read her in The Washington Post and

0:37:24.800 --> 0:37:28.400
<v Speaker 1>The Washington Examiner, the Pittsburgh Post Gazette, the New York Post.

0:37:28.840 --> 0:37:32.880
<v Speaker 1>Wherever fine writing is featured, you'll find Selena Selena. I

0:37:33.040 --> 0:37:35.520
<v Speaker 1>was on Fox and Friends on Saturday morning talking about

0:37:35.520 --> 0:37:38.400
<v Speaker 1>the Democrats going left, and I brought up Peggy flanagain,

0:37:38.400 --> 0:37:41.440
<v Speaker 1>who's likely to be their Senate candidate Minnesota hard left.

0:37:41.920 --> 0:37:46.640
<v Speaker 1>I brought up Graham Platner in Maine, he's crazy left.

0:37:47.160 --> 0:37:51.360
<v Speaker 1>I brought up Abdul l Sayeed in Michigan, he's a

0:37:51.480 --> 0:37:55.480
<v Speaker 1>crazy radical. And then you did a big profile of

0:37:55.560 --> 0:37:58.680
<v Speaker 1>John Fetterman for the Washington Post. What is it about

0:37:58.760 --> 0:38:01.759
<v Speaker 1>Fetterman that may make him not like the other three?

0:38:01.920 --> 0:38:04.080
<v Speaker 1>One of those four doesn't belong there, and his name

0:38:04.160 --> 0:38:07.320
<v Speaker 1>is Fetterman, Betterman.

0:38:07.440 --> 0:38:11.799
<v Speaker 10>What makes him different for them is that he is

0:38:11.960 --> 0:38:16.800
<v Speaker 10>willing when he believes that it reflects what the state,

0:38:17.320 --> 0:38:18.719
<v Speaker 10>the positions that the people in.

0:38:18.680 --> 0:38:22.080
<v Speaker 11>The statehold, to vote in that way rather than the

0:38:22.120 --> 0:38:23.799
<v Speaker 11>way that the party expects.

0:38:23.520 --> 0:38:27.520
<v Speaker 10>Him to vote, and making a mistake. Ninety one percent

0:38:27.600 --> 0:38:30.160
<v Speaker 10>of the time he votes with Democrats.

0:38:30.400 --> 0:38:32.480
<v Speaker 11>He is a Democrat.

0:38:32.880 --> 0:38:38.240
<v Speaker 10>However, his party is demanding purity and it has become

0:38:38.800 --> 0:38:44.520
<v Speaker 10>the cult that they say that Republicans are. But the

0:38:44.600 --> 0:38:48.760
<v Speaker 10>truth be told, the cult is within the Democratic Party.

0:38:49.360 --> 0:38:51.080
<v Speaker 11>And I took the time.

0:38:51.160 --> 0:38:52.840
<v Speaker 10>Not only I spent a lot of time with John,

0:38:53.719 --> 0:38:59.040
<v Speaker 10>I've recovered him since two thousand and five. And I

0:38:59.080 --> 0:39:03.480
<v Speaker 10>also interviewed Hunter Lamb, who he defeated by thirty percentage

0:39:03.520 --> 0:39:07.640
<v Speaker 10>to points, winning all sixty seven counties.

0:39:07.280 --> 0:39:08.080
<v Speaker 11>In that primary.

0:39:08.600 --> 0:39:14.239
<v Speaker 10>Along with Brendan Boyle, who's a Democrat from Philadelphia, and

0:39:14.360 --> 0:39:17.120
<v Speaker 10>Chris Deluzio, who's a Western Pennsylvania Democrat.

0:39:17.160 --> 0:39:20.480
<v Speaker 11>All members of the House or former members of the House.

0:39:20.760 --> 0:39:23.360
<v Speaker 11>None of them would commit to say that they were running.

0:39:23.840 --> 0:39:27.640
<v Speaker 10>And I suspect at the end of the day that

0:39:27.760 --> 0:39:30.920
<v Speaker 10>maybe none of them run, that it's just smack talking

0:39:31.320 --> 0:39:32.799
<v Speaker 10>to build up their street cred.

0:39:33.520 --> 0:39:37.040
<v Speaker 11>But they may not challenge him at all despite all

0:39:37.080 --> 0:39:41.480
<v Speaker 11>the whining and moaning. Look, the party leadership.

0:39:41.239 --> 0:39:45.400
<v Speaker 10>Understands that if he runs for reelection in two thousand

0:39:45.400 --> 0:39:48.719
<v Speaker 10>and eight in a general election, he will win in

0:39:48.800 --> 0:39:51.239
<v Speaker 10>the same way that he won in twenty twenty two,

0:39:51.560 --> 0:39:55.080
<v Speaker 10>and in the same way that Josh Shapiro wins, because

0:39:55.360 --> 0:40:01.000
<v Speaker 10>they are deliberate with their votes, as opposed to liners

0:40:01.040 --> 0:40:01.800
<v Speaker 10>with their party.

0:40:02.560 --> 0:40:07.200
<v Speaker 1>In your conversations with either Senator Fennerman or the former

0:40:07.280 --> 0:40:11.800
<v Speaker 1>congressman who think about challenging him, did the national party

0:40:11.880 --> 0:40:15.359
<v Speaker 1>come up? Because the problem really isn't Pennsylvania politics. It's

0:40:15.360 --> 0:40:19.640
<v Speaker 1>still kind of a normal democratic state. It's liberal, it's

0:40:19.760 --> 0:40:23.280
<v Speaker 1>left of center, it's not radical, it's not grand Platner.

0:40:24.120 --> 0:40:26.320
<v Speaker 1>I don't know if you followed his campaign in Maine.

0:40:26.840 --> 0:40:30.080
<v Speaker 1>It's not Abdul al say yet in Michigan he is

0:40:30.280 --> 0:40:34.120
<v Speaker 1>really out there, and it's not Peggy Flanagan in Minnesota,

0:40:34.120 --> 0:40:36.320
<v Speaker 1>who may be the most liberal of all three. Actually,

0:40:36.400 --> 0:40:40.200
<v Speaker 1>Platner is just nuts, So I'm not sure I actually

0:40:40.239 --> 0:40:43.640
<v Speaker 1>can plot him on an X Y axis. Do you

0:40:43.719 --> 0:40:45.600
<v Speaker 1>talk about the National Party with Fetterman?

0:40:48.200 --> 0:40:52.600
<v Speaker 11>Yeah, I mean, look, what is driving all three of those.

0:40:52.440 --> 0:40:56.640
<v Speaker 10>Other men to knit at him is definitely the National Party.

0:40:57.360 --> 0:41:03.440
<v Speaker 11>The National Party wants them to go after him.

0:41:02.160 --> 0:41:05.960
<v Speaker 10>Because they are demanding a p surety from him. And

0:41:07.280 --> 0:41:13.680
<v Speaker 10>I would argue that neither Boyle or or Delusio are

0:41:13.760 --> 0:41:18.600
<v Speaker 10>hard left. I would call them center left, and which

0:41:18.640 --> 0:41:21.800
<v Speaker 10>is why when they first started doing this. Although Deluzio

0:41:21.840 --> 0:41:25.120
<v Speaker 10>has never personally attacked him, he and he and Betterman

0:41:25.200 --> 0:41:26.480
<v Speaker 10>have a pretty good relationship.

0:41:26.520 --> 0:41:30.799
<v Speaker 11>They just differ on Iran. I mean, some of these

0:41:30.840 --> 0:41:33.719
<v Speaker 11>attacks that that Boyle and land you.

0:41:33.800 --> 0:41:39.840
<v Speaker 10>Are really personal and pretty nasty, and which which is

0:41:39.880 --> 0:41:40.279
<v Speaker 10>why I.

0:41:40.200 --> 0:41:42.320
<v Speaker 11>Thought what Patrick Murphy said was so important.

0:41:42.360 --> 0:41:45.760
<v Speaker 10>The former congressman from Bucks County, first Iraq war veteran

0:41:45.800 --> 0:41:48.920
<v Speaker 10>to serve in the House. He said, look, we come

0:41:49.040 --> 0:41:53.759
<v Speaker 10>from the Pennsylvania corner, right. Jack Murtha is the guy

0:41:53.800 --> 0:41:55.160
<v Speaker 10>who set the tone.

0:41:54.880 --> 0:41:57.000
<v Speaker 11>There and you don't go after fellow Democrats.

0:41:57.080 --> 0:41:59.040
<v Speaker 10>Now you might do it in the private room, but

0:41:59.120 --> 0:42:02.280
<v Speaker 10>you don't do that in public in any way, shape

0:42:02.360 --> 0:42:08.360
<v Speaker 10>or form. And Patrick said after that of Martha passed away,

0:42:08.760 --> 0:42:14.080
<v Speaker 10>but that that compartment continued. And so if he's really

0:42:14.160 --> 0:42:16.760
<v Speaker 10>disappointed to see this behavior.

0:42:16.400 --> 0:42:17.799
<v Speaker 11>By all of them.

0:42:18.280 --> 0:42:21.960
<v Speaker 1>Now the governor Whites attack baby Net in Yahoo, but

0:42:22.000 --> 0:42:24.359
<v Speaker 1>he doesn't attack Israel. I don't know what he said,

0:42:24.400 --> 0:42:28.520
<v Speaker 1>if anything about aid to Israel. Did the philibuster come

0:42:28.600 --> 0:42:31.200
<v Speaker 1>up when you talk with John Fetterman, because I think

0:42:31.239 --> 0:42:34.080
<v Speaker 1>he stands with the filibuster, which is where I am

0:42:34.120 --> 0:42:35.200
<v Speaker 1>and most Republicans.

0:42:37.280 --> 0:42:39.399
<v Speaker 11>No, it did not come up. But you're right, that's

0:42:39.440 --> 0:42:40.839
<v Speaker 11>exactly where he stands.

0:42:41.040 --> 0:42:44.279
<v Speaker 1>And what about the other three who might be challenging him,

0:42:45.200 --> 0:42:48.319
<v Speaker 1>because it's the talking point among Democratic left wingers that

0:42:48.360 --> 0:42:50.160
<v Speaker 1>they want to blow up the filibuster and pack the

0:42:50.160 --> 0:42:52.319
<v Speaker 1>court and ruin the rule of law, which will be

0:42:52.360 --> 0:42:53.640
<v Speaker 1>devastating for the country.

0:42:55.040 --> 0:42:57.279
<v Speaker 10>Right now, I didn't get into that with them. I

0:42:57.400 --> 0:43:00.960
<v Speaker 10>stuck with basically, are you going to run or not?

0:43:01.440 --> 0:43:04.319
<v Speaker 11>You know you're out there yapping. What does that mean?

0:43:04.560 --> 0:43:07.600
<v Speaker 11>Is there any meat behind the bone or on the

0:43:07.640 --> 0:43:08.440
<v Speaker 11>bone on this.

0:43:09.120 --> 0:43:11.680
<v Speaker 1>It's a long way till Fetterman has to come up again.

0:43:11.719 --> 0:43:13.759
<v Speaker 1>It's at least two years. But let me close by

0:43:14.920 --> 0:43:18.279
<v Speaker 1>asking you the last week you mentioned that the church

0:43:18.320 --> 0:43:21.320
<v Speaker 1>of your youth and your parents and your grandparents was closing.

0:43:21.760 --> 0:43:26.200
<v Speaker 1>Got questioned after that. Was there objections from within the diocese,

0:43:26.280 --> 0:43:29.240
<v Speaker 1>because sometimes when the diocese has to make a tough call,

0:43:30.280 --> 0:43:33.520
<v Speaker 1>the locals rise up. Are there any locals yet left

0:43:33.760 --> 0:43:35.920
<v Speaker 1>who rose up? Or is it a done deal?

0:43:37.360 --> 0:43:40.120
<v Speaker 10>This is the fifth time they've tried to close it,

0:43:40.320 --> 0:43:42.719
<v Speaker 10>and people are exhausted.

0:43:43.760 --> 0:43:45.680
<v Speaker 11>It wasn't going to happen this time. No one was

0:43:45.719 --> 0:43:48.600
<v Speaker 11>going to save at this time. People trust me.

0:43:48.640 --> 0:43:52.840
<v Speaker 10>This thing this church has been saying is in like

0:43:52.960 --> 0:43:57.640
<v Speaker 10>it's ninth afterlife, right, there was no more.

0:43:59.000 --> 0:43:59.919
<v Speaker 11>People were just ex.

0:44:00.080 --> 0:44:03.240
<v Speaker 10>Austed by constantly having to fight to save their church.

0:44:03.600 --> 0:44:09.120
<v Speaker 1>What is the what happens next to the church? I mean,

0:44:09.160 --> 0:44:09.920
<v Speaker 1>do they sell it?

0:44:11.920 --> 0:44:13.200
<v Speaker 11>They haven't said.

0:44:14.920 --> 0:44:15.000
<v Speaker 3>So.

0:44:15.160 --> 0:44:19.839
<v Speaker 10>They have They have sold seventy They've closed seventy eight

0:44:19.960 --> 0:44:23.360
<v Speaker 10>churches in the past years in the pittsburghs.

0:44:23.200 --> 0:44:26.359
<v Speaker 1>And you know, young, young America is becoming more and

0:44:26.360 --> 0:44:29.160
<v Speaker 1>more Catholic. I think it may be premature. We will

0:44:29.560 --> 0:44:31.719
<v Speaker 1>we will see. It doesn't cost anything. You can all

0:44:31.920 --> 0:44:36.480
<v Speaker 1>board it up and wait and see Selena Zito all

0:44:36.480 --> 0:44:38.239
<v Speaker 1>of your pleasure to talk to you. Follow her at

0:44:38.400 --> 0:44:45.439
<v Speaker 1>Zelena at Zito, Selena online, Zito Selena online. Wait at

0:44:45.480 --> 0:44:48.800
<v Speaker 1>act Zito Selena. If you want everything that she writes,

0:44:48.800 --> 0:44:51.319
<v Speaker 1>go to Selenazito dot com. There, I got it right.

0:44:51.440 --> 0:44:57.720
<v Speaker 1>Stay tuned, America. I'll be right back. Welcome back to America.

0:44:57.840 --> 0:44:59.600
<v Speaker 1>I'm here to do it. As you're driving home, I

0:44:59.640 --> 0:45:02.840
<v Speaker 1>want you they keep in mind the date of April thirtieth,

0:45:02.920 --> 0:45:05.759
<v Speaker 1>and then for the week thereafter in theaters across the

0:45:05.880 --> 0:45:10.640
<v Speaker 1>United States, The Story of Everything. Now, a movie that

0:45:10.719 --> 0:45:13.440
<v Speaker 1>promised you the Story of Everything has got to deliver.

0:45:13.920 --> 0:45:16.480
<v Speaker 1>And so I've asked doctor Stephen Meyer, old friends of

0:45:16.480 --> 0:45:18.440
<v Speaker 1>the program, you've heard heard him on my show for

0:45:18.560 --> 0:45:21.120
<v Speaker 1>many many years from the Discovery Institute up in Seattle,

0:45:21.160 --> 0:45:24.279
<v Speaker 1>to join me. Hello, doctor Meyer, welcome back. Tell us

0:45:24.280 --> 0:45:26.719
<v Speaker 1>what the Story of Everything is about? And people can

0:45:26.719 --> 0:45:29.520
<v Speaker 1>find out more Story of Everything dot film. But what's

0:45:29.520 --> 0:45:31.439
<v Speaker 1>it all about? Yeah?

0:45:31.520 --> 0:45:33.880
<v Speaker 8>Thanks Hu. Yeah, you could think that the Story of

0:45:33.880 --> 0:45:36.279
<v Speaker 8>Everything is a pretentious title, but it's actually about the

0:45:36.360 --> 0:45:38.759
<v Speaker 8>story of everything, the story of the origin of the

0:45:38.840 --> 0:45:43.160
<v Speaker 8>universe and the origin of the life thank excuse me,

0:45:43.239 --> 0:45:46.399
<v Speaker 8>the origin of life inside the universe, and especially it's

0:45:46.400 --> 0:45:49.560
<v Speaker 8>the story of the scientific discoveries that are changing scientist's

0:45:49.560 --> 0:45:54.359
<v Speaker 8>mind about the old materialistic, scientific atheist story that says

0:45:54.400 --> 0:45:58.360
<v Speaker 8>that everything came about by undirected, unguided processes, and instead,

0:45:58.960 --> 0:46:04.560
<v Speaker 8>three major discovers are described in the film that tell

0:46:04.640 --> 0:46:09.280
<v Speaker 8>us that point to a designing mind behind the universe.

0:46:10.120 --> 0:46:12.719
<v Speaker 1>You and the scientists at the Discovery Institute have been

0:46:12.760 --> 0:46:15.680
<v Speaker 1>working on this for many, many years. What is it

0:46:15.800 --> 0:46:21.480
<v Speaker 1>that makes this film different from the apologetics work and

0:46:21.520 --> 0:46:25.960
<v Speaker 1>the intelligent design work and all the various arguments we've

0:46:26.000 --> 0:46:29.360
<v Speaker 1>heard from Robert Jastrow in the early day through Francis

0:46:29.440 --> 0:46:33.279
<v Speaker 1>Collins before he went to NIH, A lot of scientists

0:46:33.280 --> 0:46:35.360
<v Speaker 1>have tried to argue about the coefficient of the universe.

0:46:35.640 --> 0:46:37.520
<v Speaker 1>Why is the story of everything different?

0:46:39.520 --> 0:46:41.319
<v Speaker 8>It's different in a couple of respects. First of all,

0:46:41.320 --> 0:46:43.480
<v Speaker 8>it tells the story. It tells the story of the

0:46:43.520 --> 0:46:46.759
<v Speaker 8>discoveries that have changed scientists minds, and it tells the

0:46:46.800 --> 0:46:52.080
<v Speaker 8>stories of those scientists. So it's very viewable and engaging,

0:46:52.440 --> 0:46:55.240
<v Speaker 8>but it's also very comprehensive, and it draws these different

0:46:55.280 --> 0:46:58.120
<v Speaker 8>threads of evidence together to show that we don't just

0:46:58.160 --> 0:47:01.720
<v Speaker 8>have evidence of a designing intelligence of some unspecified kind,

0:47:02.120 --> 0:47:04.680
<v Speaker 8>but rather, what we're seeing is evidence of a designing

0:47:04.719 --> 0:47:08.480
<v Speaker 8>intelligence that has the attributes that traditional theists, Jews, and

0:47:08.560 --> 0:47:11.640
<v Speaker 8>Christians have long ascribed to God. There's evidence of a

0:47:11.680 --> 0:47:15.040
<v Speaker 8>transcendent intelligence who is also active in the creation. And

0:47:15.080 --> 0:47:17.320
<v Speaker 8>we see that in the evidence of the beginning of

0:47:17.360 --> 0:47:20.440
<v Speaker 8>the universe, the creation event itself, and we see it

0:47:20.480 --> 0:47:23.200
<v Speaker 8>in the evidence for the fine tuning of the basic

0:47:23.560 --> 0:47:26.799
<v Speaker 8>parameters of physics. And we see it especially in the

0:47:26.840 --> 0:47:29.839
<v Speaker 8>interior workings of the Living Cell, where we have an

0:47:29.880 --> 0:47:33.759
<v Speaker 8>exquisite realm of digital nanotechnology, and this film brings it

0:47:33.800 --> 0:47:36.640
<v Speaker 8>to life. The producers have done a fantastic job, four

0:47:36.719 --> 0:47:41.520
<v Speaker 8>hundred visual effects, beautiful cinematography, a gorgeous score. So it's

0:47:41.560 --> 0:47:48.000
<v Speaker 8>not only intellectually satisfying intellectually engaging, it's also esthetically very

0:47:48.080 --> 0:47:48.760
<v Speaker 8>very compelling.

0:47:49.360 --> 0:47:52.520
<v Speaker 1>Now you're a very good public intellectual. I don't know

0:47:52.560 --> 0:47:55.239
<v Speaker 1>that you're a filmmaker. Who did you hire to do this?

0:47:55.640 --> 0:47:57.720
<v Speaker 1>Because I can't make them I watch.

0:47:57.600 --> 0:47:59.960
<v Speaker 8>Them, Yeah, I can't either. We work with a group

0:48:00.120 --> 0:48:05.400
<v Speaker 8>called Cipher Films, They've had two very successful previous theatrical

0:48:05.520 --> 0:48:09.200
<v Speaker 8>release documentaries. They always they always pay their investors back

0:48:09.239 --> 0:48:11.959
<v Speaker 8>with the premium. Their last one was called After Death,

0:48:11.960 --> 0:48:15.280
<v Speaker 8>which was all about near death experiences, which is still

0:48:15.640 --> 0:48:20.960
<v Speaker 8>the highest grossing faith based documentary to be released in theaters.

0:48:21.000 --> 0:48:24.759
<v Speaker 8>So very skilled filmmakers, fantastic production values. We had a

0:48:24.800 --> 0:48:27.920
<v Speaker 8>tremendous review of the film in the Wall Street Journal

0:48:28.040 --> 0:48:33.640
<v Speaker 8>last Friday with Peter Robinson of mister Gorbachev Tear Down

0:48:33.680 --> 0:48:36.920
<v Speaker 8>this Wall of Fame, the old speech writer for Ronald Reagan,

0:48:36.960 --> 0:48:39.440
<v Speaker 8>and he gave it very high marks for the production

0:48:39.600 --> 0:48:44.600
<v Speaker 8>values as well as the persuasive content of the film itself.

0:48:45.000 --> 0:48:47.600
<v Speaker 1>Now, Peter is a Hoover Institution fellow, so you've got

0:48:47.640 --> 0:48:52.160
<v Speaker 1>to say very sure intellect at work there. Dolby's guy,

0:48:52.200 --> 0:48:54.960
<v Speaker 1>any camera. Is it going to be on the biggest

0:48:54.960 --> 0:48:55.520
<v Speaker 1>of screens.

0:48:56.440 --> 0:48:58.440
<v Speaker 8>It's on the big screen. It was made for the

0:48:58.440 --> 0:49:01.040
<v Speaker 8>big screen. So there will be a digital release, but

0:49:01.360 --> 0:49:03.279
<v Speaker 8>I'd really encourage people to get out and see it

0:49:03.320 --> 0:49:07.520
<v Speaker 8>in theaters because the theatrical experience, the cinematic experience, as

0:49:07.560 --> 0:49:11.800
<v Speaker 8>one reviewer said, is just spectacular. You go all the

0:49:11.840 --> 0:49:14.040
<v Speaker 8>way back to the to the origin of the universe,

0:49:14.680 --> 0:49:17.240
<v Speaker 8>way out in space and then deep into the cell.

0:49:17.680 --> 0:49:22.120
<v Speaker 8>And then it's a very interesting device that the producers used.

0:49:22.239 --> 0:49:25.920
<v Speaker 8>They didn't have a narrator, they didn't have a host.

0:49:26.280 --> 0:49:30.480
<v Speaker 8>They allowed the scientists themselves, with their testimony intercut one

0:49:30.520 --> 0:49:33.120
<v Speaker 8>after another, to tell the story, and it creates a

0:49:33.360 --> 0:49:36.000
<v Speaker 8>very powerful pacing of in the narrative.

0:49:36.680 --> 0:49:39.360
<v Speaker 1>All kay, what is the run time? Steven? I'm always

0:49:39.800 --> 0:49:41.799
<v Speaker 1>people always want to know how long am I going

0:49:41.880 --> 0:49:43.240
<v Speaker 1>to be in the theater.

0:49:44.280 --> 0:49:46.360
<v Speaker 8>It's an hour and thirty five minutes. So it's a

0:49:46.520 --> 0:49:51.160
<v Speaker 8>perfect length for a theatrical theatrical documentary, not too long,

0:49:51.280 --> 0:49:56.080
<v Speaker 8>not too short, just right. It's physicists say.

0:49:56.320 --> 0:49:58.279
<v Speaker 1>One hundred and thirty five minutes is just perfect. That

0:49:58.320 --> 0:50:01.719
<v Speaker 1>was fer too much to cut. We we had to

0:50:01.800 --> 0:50:03.959
<v Speaker 1>go to two and a half hours. I said, oh dear,

0:50:04.840 --> 0:50:07.359
<v Speaker 1>one hundred and thirty five minutes, it's just perfect. We

0:50:07.400 --> 0:50:09.080
<v Speaker 1>come back from break. We're going to talk about some

0:50:09.200 --> 0:50:13.080
<v Speaker 1>mundane things like the score. I also want because I

0:50:13.120 --> 0:50:14.680
<v Speaker 1>want to sell you on going to the theater. You

0:50:14.680 --> 0:50:16.880
<v Speaker 1>can get your tickets in advance. By the way, the

0:50:17.000 --> 0:50:20.600
<v Speaker 1>story of everything dot film, The story of everything dot film,

0:50:21.000 --> 0:50:24.080
<v Speaker 1>not just for believers, but for those in fact who

0:50:24.080 --> 0:50:26.960
<v Speaker 1>don't believe. It's for everyone who wants understand science and

0:50:27.040 --> 0:50:31.560
<v Speaker 1>the universe and the marvelous, marvelous apologetic contained within our

0:50:31.600 --> 0:50:34.480
<v Speaker 1>physics and our map. Don't go anywhere, Doctor Mirrow will

0:50:34.480 --> 0:50:36.760
<v Speaker 1>be right back from the Discovery Institute and the story

0:50:36.800 --> 0:50:40.200
<v Speaker 1>of Everything in movie theaters April thirtieth. Thank you for

0:50:40.320 --> 0:50:43.320
<v Speaker 1>listening to highly concentrated Hugh. And don't forget one of

0:50:43.360 --> 0:50:47.400
<v Speaker 1>our great sponsors as Consumer Sailor one eight hundred four

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<v Speaker 1>and you should, because you should want to save money,

0:50:55.080 --> 0:50:58.319
<v Speaker 1>make sure you use my promo code, Hugh Hugh, you'll

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<v Speaker 1>get your second month free if and when you switch

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<v Speaker 1>to Consumer Cellular, whatever plan you switch with, you'll get

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<v Speaker 1>you're doing right now with Consumer Cellular. When you can

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<v Speaker 1>go online Consumer Cellular dot com slash hue. They've got

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0:51:32.440 --> 0:51:34.759
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<v Speaker 1>Everybody gets their second month free when you use my name,

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<v Speaker 1>Hugh Welcome back to America. Doctor Stephen Meyer is back.

0:51:59.360 --> 0:52:02.600
<v Speaker 1>He is a force behind the story of everything. The

0:52:02.640 --> 0:52:06.040
<v Speaker 1>movie that we'll be in theaters on April thirtieth through

0:52:06.360 --> 0:52:09.160
<v Speaker 1>May sixth, and that's just the first week. If it

0:52:09.200 --> 0:52:11.160
<v Speaker 1>does as well as we think it will do, I'm

0:52:11.200 --> 0:52:14.680
<v Speaker 1>sure you'll extend the run. Stephen, tell me a little

0:52:14.719 --> 0:52:17.239
<v Speaker 1>bit about how this came to be. You guys have

0:52:17.320 --> 0:52:20.280
<v Speaker 1>been working away for years persuading people of the science.

0:52:20.680 --> 0:52:22.280
<v Speaker 1>Why do you decide to go big screen?

0:52:23.640 --> 0:52:25.720
<v Speaker 8>Well, a little bit of it is my own story.

0:52:25.800 --> 0:52:30.920
<v Speaker 8>I've been thinking about the theistic implications of modern scientific

0:52:30.920 --> 0:52:34.040
<v Speaker 8>discoveries since I went off to do my PhD work

0:52:34.040 --> 0:52:36.440
<v Speaker 8>at the University of Cambridge in the late nineteen eighties,

0:52:36.840 --> 0:52:39.440
<v Speaker 8>I produced a book about the origin of life and

0:52:39.480 --> 0:52:43.160
<v Speaker 8>the evidence for design in the interior workings of the cell,

0:52:43.280 --> 0:52:46.120
<v Speaker 8>called Signature in the Cell. A second book, also looking

0:52:46.160 --> 0:52:50.680
<v Speaker 8>at the informational requirements for building living systems, called Darwin's Doubt.

0:52:50.719 --> 0:52:52.719
<v Speaker 8>You kindly had me on for an interview about that.

0:52:53.360 --> 0:52:56.320
<v Speaker 8>And then my third book in the trilogy is actually

0:52:56.320 --> 0:53:00.480
<v Speaker 8>called The Return of the God hypothesis, where that we're

0:53:00.520 --> 0:53:02.920
<v Speaker 8>not just looking at evidence for a designing intelligence of

0:53:02.960 --> 0:53:06.480
<v Speaker 8>some unspecified kind, but again a designing intelligence that has

0:53:06.520 --> 0:53:10.480
<v Speaker 8>the attributes that traditional theists have long ascribed to God.

0:53:11.080 --> 0:53:13.160
<v Speaker 8>And that book took me three and a half years

0:53:13.200 --> 0:53:15.160
<v Speaker 8>to write. I finished it in twenty twenty one, and

0:53:15.320 --> 0:53:18.160
<v Speaker 8>very soon Effort was published. I was approached by the

0:53:18.200 --> 0:53:20.759
<v Speaker 8>Cipher film team team and they said, we'd like to

0:53:20.800 --> 0:53:25.279
<v Speaker 8>adapt your book into a cinematic experience, is the way

0:53:25.320 --> 0:53:28.880
<v Speaker 8>they put it. And it's with some delays from COVID

0:53:28.920 --> 0:53:30.640
<v Speaker 8>and not being able to get to some of our

0:53:30.719 --> 0:53:36.319
<v Speaker 8>key interview subjects, we finally finished that film earlier this year.

0:53:36.440 --> 0:53:40.279
<v Speaker 8>It was a five year odyssey. We have scientists from

0:53:40.280 --> 0:53:42.880
<v Speaker 8>all over the world, from Australia, from Britain, from France,

0:53:43.400 --> 0:53:45.040
<v Speaker 8>and of course the United States.

0:53:45.080 --> 0:53:45.719
<v Speaker 1>So a.

0:53:47.280 --> 0:53:52.200
<v Speaker 8>Very fine cast. It's divided into separate acts that are

0:53:52.360 --> 0:53:56.120
<v Speaker 8>very digestible and understandable. The filmmakers use the device of

0:53:56.600 --> 0:54:00.479
<v Speaker 8>a kind of chapter divisions that help people to stay

0:54:00.520 --> 0:54:03.520
<v Speaker 8>with the science. But the storytelling is really strong, and

0:54:03.560 --> 0:54:06.720
<v Speaker 8>so I think people will find it very, very easy

0:54:06.760 --> 0:54:09.800
<v Speaker 8>to follow and will open up a whole new world

0:54:09.800 --> 0:54:11.840
<v Speaker 8>to people that maybe never really thought much about what

0:54:11.920 --> 0:54:13.360
<v Speaker 8>science has to tell us about God.

0:54:14.000 --> 0:54:20.760
<v Speaker 1>Now, Steven, it's undeniable that a score either exponentially expands

0:54:20.800 --> 0:54:23.640
<v Speaker 1>the impact of a movie or detracts from the quality

0:54:23.880 --> 0:54:26.719
<v Speaker 1>of the content. Who scored the film and why did

0:54:26.760 --> 0:54:29.560
<v Speaker 1>you pick him or her? It was her?

0:54:29.680 --> 0:54:34.640
<v Speaker 8>Her name is Hannah and she just did a fantastic job.

0:54:34.680 --> 0:54:35.239
<v Speaker 1>We got it.

0:54:35.880 --> 0:54:44.400
<v Speaker 8>The score itself was performed by a symphony in Eastern

0:54:44.440 --> 0:54:47.640
<v Speaker 8>Europe and they did just a fantastic job. We all

0:54:47.680 --> 0:54:50.080
<v Speaker 8>got to listen on headphones as they were doing it.

0:54:50.160 --> 0:54:53.480
<v Speaker 8>So it's just very beautiful. And we also have a

0:54:53.520 --> 0:54:56.799
<v Speaker 8>super trailer coming out with a score that was done

0:54:56.800 --> 0:55:00.560
<v Speaker 8>by my son who's a young composer, and so music

0:55:00.600 --> 0:55:01.640
<v Speaker 8>has been a big part of this.

0:55:01.840 --> 0:55:02.359
<v Speaker 4>In fact, the.

0:55:02.320 --> 0:55:06.799
<v Speaker 8>Final scene in the film discusses the whole problem, the

0:55:06.840 --> 0:55:10.279
<v Speaker 8>problem but the mystery of beauty, that our universe and

0:55:10.320 --> 0:55:13.279
<v Speaker 8>life itself is much more beautiful than anything that is

0:55:13.320 --> 0:55:17.600
<v Speaker 8>required for mere Darwinian survival. So the problem of gratuitous

0:55:17.640 --> 0:55:21.520
<v Speaker 8>beauty is a note we end on, and of course

0:55:21.560 --> 0:55:24.600
<v Speaker 8>the film capturing that beauty gives the film both an

0:55:24.600 --> 0:55:28.000
<v Speaker 8>intellectual and an aesthetic experience.

0:55:28.480 --> 0:55:31.160
<v Speaker 1>Now, how did you pick the six hundred theater? It's everywhere,

0:55:31.200 --> 0:55:33.520
<v Speaker 1>but some people won't be able to get it. I'm

0:55:33.520 --> 0:55:34.920
<v Speaker 1>not sure if the list is going to be at

0:55:34.920 --> 0:55:37.279
<v Speaker 1>the Story of Everything dot film. Tickets are at the

0:55:37.280 --> 0:55:39.640
<v Speaker 1>Story of Everything dot film. How did you pick your

0:55:39.680 --> 0:55:42.120
<v Speaker 1>distribution list? That's a good distribution.

0:55:42.200 --> 0:55:46.320
<v Speaker 8>I think it's Yeah, it's good distribution. And as we're acquiring,

0:55:46.560 --> 0:55:49.439
<v Speaker 8>as our pre sales are boosting this even this last week,

0:55:49.719 --> 0:55:53.920
<v Speaker 8>new theaters are being added. So if people go to

0:55:54.320 --> 0:55:58.400
<v Speaker 8>the Story of Everything dot film or to the Fathom website,

0:55:58.600 --> 0:56:01.840
<v Speaker 8>they can get more information and even put in requests

0:56:01.880 --> 0:56:04.400
<v Speaker 8>for additional theaters to be added in their area.

0:56:05.160 --> 0:56:09.160
<v Speaker 1>Now, the final question is you and I have worked

0:56:09.160 --> 0:56:12.359
<v Speaker 1>for twenty five years through the old atheists, the new atheists,

0:56:12.440 --> 0:56:15.920
<v Speaker 1>the old New atheists, et cetera. There are always say arguments,

0:56:16.600 --> 0:56:19.719
<v Speaker 1>did you bother to refute them in the film? Because

0:56:19.840 --> 0:56:21.440
<v Speaker 1>I hope you didn't waste your time, but maybe you

0:56:21.480 --> 0:56:22.160
<v Speaker 1>thought you had to.

0:56:23.680 --> 0:56:27.080
<v Speaker 8>No, the old the new atheism is spent for uce.

0:56:27.120 --> 0:56:29.799
<v Speaker 8>It was never new. That's the kind of strange thing

0:56:29.800 --> 0:56:32.680
<v Speaker 8>about it. It was the recycled village atheism of the

0:56:32.760 --> 0:56:36.520
<v Speaker 8>late nineteenth century. What the film focuses on is are

0:56:36.560 --> 0:56:41.400
<v Speaker 8>the new discoveries in cosmology, physics, and especially in biology

0:56:41.440 --> 0:56:44.080
<v Speaker 8>and molecular biology that point to the reality of a

0:56:44.120 --> 0:56:49.440
<v Speaker 8>designing intelligence behind life in the universe. We do introduce

0:56:49.520 --> 0:56:53.480
<v Speaker 8>some of those figures early on to contrast the story

0:56:53.520 --> 0:56:56.120
<v Speaker 8>we're going to tell, because the story contrast too, or

0:56:56.239 --> 0:56:59.719
<v Speaker 8>rather the film contrast two stories, the story of the

0:57:00.080 --> 0:57:03.800
<v Speaker 8>terry Lists story of undirected processes making everything we see,

0:57:04.120 --> 0:57:06.839
<v Speaker 8>and the new story of science, which is really a

0:57:06.880 --> 0:57:09.560
<v Speaker 8>reprise of the great story of science that started with

0:57:09.640 --> 0:57:13.160
<v Speaker 8>Newton and Boyle, Kepler and the great founders of modern science,

0:57:13.360 --> 0:57:16.800
<v Speaker 8>and that is that behind the universe there's evidence for

0:57:17.720 --> 0:57:21.360
<v Speaker 8>a super intellect. As one of the physicists who changed

0:57:21.400 --> 0:57:23.160
<v Speaker 8>his mind, Sir Fred Hoyle put.

0:57:22.960 --> 0:57:26.000
<v Speaker 1>It, well, what I like to tell people. Is every

0:57:26.080 --> 0:57:28.480
<v Speaker 1>work of art, at least every great work of art,

0:57:29.600 --> 0:57:33.760
<v Speaker 1>is almost inevitably signed by the creator, and you can

0:57:33.840 --> 0:57:36.600
<v Speaker 1>figure out who the creator is if only by matching

0:57:36.640 --> 0:57:39.200
<v Speaker 1>great works of art with other ones. Do you feel

0:57:39.200 --> 0:57:41.560
<v Speaker 1>at the end, what's the objective to make the non

0:57:41.600 --> 0:57:45.120
<v Speaker 1>believer hesitate, to make the believer be confirmed? What is it?

0:57:46.720 --> 0:57:48.800
<v Speaker 8>I want to put a little spring in the step

0:57:48.960 --> 0:57:54.040
<v Speaker 8>of especially young believers, who feel so intellectually insecure and

0:57:54.120 --> 0:57:58.160
<v Speaker 8>defensive because of the hostile atheist professors they often encounter.

0:57:58.560 --> 0:58:01.680
<v Speaker 8>And for the rest of us, of all ages, if

0:58:01.720 --> 0:58:04.840
<v Speaker 8>people already believe in God, they will find not only

0:58:05.000 --> 0:58:08.200
<v Speaker 8>confirmation of that, but I think almost an impulse to

0:58:08.240 --> 0:58:12.080
<v Speaker 8>worship because the evidence and the beauty of nature are

0:58:12.160 --> 0:58:15.840
<v Speaker 8>so powerfully pointing to the reality of our creator. And

0:58:16.080 --> 0:58:20.080
<v Speaker 8>it's also a film for people who are believers that

0:58:20.160 --> 0:58:23.400
<v Speaker 8>you can take your skeptical friends to. It doesn't have

0:58:23.440 --> 0:58:27.480
<v Speaker 8>a cringe factor. It's very very in fact, the argument

0:58:27.520 --> 0:58:30.720
<v Speaker 8>is somewhat understated, but it's very powerful and it gives

0:58:30.760 --> 0:58:34.160
<v Speaker 8>people a lot to think about. In the screenings we've had,

0:58:34.200 --> 0:58:37.280
<v Speaker 8>people have wanted to go out immediately and have long discussions.

0:58:37.320 --> 0:58:40.120
<v Speaker 8>So I think it's the kind of film that will

0:58:40.320 --> 0:58:45.520
<v Speaker 8>create constructive discussions across the worldview divides that are fracturing

0:58:45.520 --> 0:58:46.960
<v Speaker 8>our culture, and we hope we bring a lot of

0:58:46.960 --> 0:58:50.120
<v Speaker 8>people together around a common interest in the big questions.

0:58:50.440 --> 0:58:51.960
<v Speaker 1>Now, I got to ask before we run out of time,

0:58:52.000 --> 0:58:54.400
<v Speaker 1>my old friend Brian Burgs involved, what was his hand

0:58:54.440 --> 0:58:54.680
<v Speaker 1>in this?

0:58:55.840 --> 0:58:58.840
<v Speaker 8>Oh, he's spectacular. He's the old hand who's done. He's

0:58:58.840 --> 0:59:02.480
<v Speaker 8>had thirty year career in Hollywood. He's the genius behind

0:59:02.840 --> 0:59:05.520
<v Speaker 8>When Calls the Heart, which is the long running Hallmark

0:59:05.600 --> 0:59:08.680
<v Speaker 8>Channel thing. But he's got credits, you know, so many

0:59:08.680 --> 0:59:12.560
<v Speaker 8>credits touched by an angel forever and he just kept

0:59:12.640 --> 0:59:15.680
<v Speaker 8>us on track with the wisdom of a seasoned producer.

0:59:16.240 --> 0:59:18.080
<v Speaker 1>I'm so glad to see the name on there. I

0:59:18.160 --> 0:59:20.320
<v Speaker 1>just when you're and for you to say we knew

0:59:20.320 --> 0:59:22.400
<v Speaker 1>about the cringe factor. We didn't want to do that.

0:59:23.040 --> 0:59:26.480
<v Speaker 1>Hats off to Steven. The Story of Everything in theaters

0:59:26.480 --> 0:59:29.240
<v Speaker 1>on April thy It's through many shaped Buy your tickets now.

0:59:29.280 --> 0:59:31.240
<v Speaker 1>It's the Story of Everything. Dot Film