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Speaker 1: On behalf of our family. We want to thank all

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Speaker 1: of you for the prayers for our beloved mom Nancy.

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Speaker 1: We feel them, and we continue to believe that she

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Speaker 1: feels them too. Our mom is a kind, faithful, loyal,

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Speaker 1: fiercely loving woman of goodness and light. She's funny, spunky,

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Speaker 1: and clever. She has grandchildren that adore her and crowd

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Speaker 1: around her and cover her with kisses. She loves fun

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Speaker 1: and adventure. She is a devoted friend. She is full

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Speaker 1: of kindness and knowledge. Talk to her and you'll.

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Speaker 2: See the light is missing from our lives.

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Speaker 1: Nancy is our mother. We are her children.

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Speaker 2: She is our beacon. She holds fast to joy in

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Speaker 2: all of life's circumstances. She chooses joy day after day,

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Speaker 2: despite having already passed through great trials of pain and grief.

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Speaker 2: We are always going to be merely human, just normal

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Speaker 2: human people who need our mom. Mama, Mama, if you're listening,

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Speaker 2: we need you to come home.

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Speaker 1: We miss you. Our mom is our heart and our home.

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Speaker 1: She is eighty four years old. Her health, her heart

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Speaker 1: is fragile. She lives in constant pain. She is without

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Speaker 1: any medicine. She needs it to survive. She needs it.

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Speaker 1: Not to suffer. We two have heard the reports about

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Speaker 1: a ransom letter in the media. As a family, we

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Speaker 1: are doing everything that we can. We are ready to talk. However,

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Speaker 1: we live in a world where voices and images are

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Speaker 1: easily manipulated. We need to know without a doubt that

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Speaker 1: she is alive and that you have her. We want

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Speaker 1: to hear from you, and we are ready to listen.

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Speaker 1: Please reach out to us, Mommy, if you are hearing this,

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Speaker 1: you are a strong woman. You are God's precious daughter, Nancy.

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Speaker 1: We believe and know that even in this valley, he

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Speaker 1: is with you. Everyone is looking for you, Mommy, everywhere.

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Speaker 1: We will not rest, Your children will not rest until

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Speaker 1: we are together again. We speak to you every moment,

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Speaker 1: and we pray without ceasing, and we rejoice in advance

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Speaker 1: for the day that we hold you in our arms again.

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Speaker 1: We love you, Mom. We love you, Mom.

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Speaker 3: Stay strong, you love.

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Speaker 4: Okay, So obviously that was the Guthrie family. I want

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Speaker 4: to play another video, Gabe, if we could get the

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Speaker 4: video of the son last night he.

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Speaker 1: Gave the.

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Speaker 4: Just a plea to the kidnappers, the alleged kidnappers. I

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Speaker 4: want to make sure that we play that as well.

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Speaker 4: Joining me is my guest, doctor Curry Meyers, America's leading criminologist.

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Speaker 4: In my mind, he's been on the show plenty of

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Speaker 4: times before, so he's going to break this down with us. So, Gabe,

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Speaker 4: if you could go to the next video of Cameron

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Speaker 4: Guthrie in a plea last night, which we will discuss

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Speaker 4: after the video, which is really crucial.

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Speaker 3: This is Cameron Guthrie. I'm speaking for the Guthrie family.

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Speaker 3: Whoever is out there holding our mother. We want to

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Speaker 3: hear from you. We haven't heard anything directly. We need

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Speaker 3: you to reach out and we need a way to

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Speaker 3: communicate with you so we can move forward. But first

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Speaker 3: we have to know that you have our mom. We

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Speaker 3: want to talk to you, and we are waiting for contact.

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Speaker 4: Okay, So now I'm joining with my guest doctor Curry Myers,

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Speaker 4: America's leading criminologist. I mean, he's been the sheriff of

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Speaker 4: a major city. He's been in law enforcement, federal law enforcement,

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Speaker 4: state law enforcement, homicide detective. I mean, just absolutely insane.

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Speaker 4: His resume is doc just real quickly, I want to

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Speaker 4: go through a lot of points in a very short

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Speaker 4: period of time with you. Just give me your take

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Speaker 4: in overall synopsis of how this case thus far has

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Speaker 4: been handled. There's been a lot of criticism of the

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Speaker 4: sheriff in the Tucson, Arizona area. And I don't know

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Speaker 4: if that's for better or worse, quite frankly, but it

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Speaker 4: did seem to me that he could have done a

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Speaker 4: better job sharing information. Perhaps he's holding back information intentionally,

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Speaker 4: I don't know, but it seemed like, and this is

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Speaker 4: a criticism that he's getting, that his press conferences haven't

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Speaker 4: really led to much except circular nonsense. What's your take

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Speaker 4: on that.

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Speaker 5: Well, it's a difficult case too. These cases are difficult

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Speaker 5: to work, I mean, especially when you have somebody that's

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Speaker 5: high profile because of her daughter who's with Fox News.

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Speaker 5: So that's especially what makes it a high profile. So

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Speaker 5: our prayers certainly are with him. From a law enforcement perspective,

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Speaker 5: you never want to overshare anything regarding investigatory leads because

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Speaker 5: there's only really three people who knew what occurred at ime, see,

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Speaker 5: and that's the victim naturally unless she was killed, you know,

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Speaker 5: without even knowing what happened, but the victim, the perpetrator

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Speaker 5: in God. That's why often homicide detectives, you know, say

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Speaker 5: we work for God because he's one of the three

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Speaker 5: that knows, you know, what happened, and so it's never

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Speaker 5: very good to overshare any information. As a matter of fact,

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Speaker 5: you want to put out you want to probably have

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Speaker 5: less at this point, you want to have less briefings

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Speaker 5: that have occurred in not so much detail. To me,

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Speaker 5: there has been an overshare of detail. Actually not a

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Speaker 5: difference there, so uh, but you need to but you

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Speaker 5: need to have the briefings occasionally just so people know

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Speaker 5: what your investigatory leads are. Uh and if there's any updates.

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Speaker 5: What we do know in this case is blood was

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Speaker 5: found on the on the front sidewalk, front porch area

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Speaker 5: of the Guthrie home in the front. That's been confirmed

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Speaker 5: by authorities. What we don't know is when that blood

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Speaker 5: was there, was put there, And what we don't know

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Speaker 5: right now is whether or not it's Nancy's or not.

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Speaker 5: So I'm going to make an assumption that they have

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Speaker 5: already collected that evidence and trying to get DNA to

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Speaker 5: prove it back to to the you know, the.

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Speaker 4: Mom apparently doctor they were able to confirm that as

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Speaker 4: of last night.

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Speaker 5: Okay, so that's if it was confirmed as Nancy Guthrie.

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Speaker 5: Then that would tell us that it's hers. But what

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Speaker 5: we don't know is when it was left there. Could

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Speaker 5: have been left there twenty four hours ago, but you

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Speaker 5: know before the incident happened. We do have this is

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Speaker 5: going to be a big technology case, So we have

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Speaker 5: surveillance equipment that the residents showing the doorbell camera disconnected

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Speaker 5: in the early morning. Now, this is great evidence to

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Speaker 5: say something bad happened, because nobody's going to disconnect a

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Speaker 5: a doorbell camera was a nest at one seven am

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Speaker 5: is when it was disconnected. This is on February first.

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Speaker 5: And then her pacemaker, which also has technology that's generally

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Speaker 5: linked to people's phones, it was disconnected about twenty to

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Speaker 5: thirty minutes shortly after. So this is highly unusual. It's evidentiary,

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Speaker 5: and you want to make sure that you're following up

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Speaker 5: on the technology side pretty close. So based on the

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Speaker 5: evidence of the disconnect, that's what tells us that this

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Speaker 5: was bad actors or a bad actor that came into

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Speaker 5: the house and took her. Now, there's going to be

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Speaker 5: a lot of investigatory leads that have to happen, and

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Speaker 5: digital forensic is going. Forensic is going to be the

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Speaker 5: main thing that they have to a challenge that they

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Speaker 5: have to overcome and try to establish better time lapse

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Speaker 5: between that one thirty am to three am to find

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Speaker 5: out a little bit more information.

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Speaker 4: Okay, so they now New York Post has come out

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Speaker 4: with a timeline. I want to go through some of

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Speaker 4: these things with you when we get back from the break.

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Speaker 4: We're not going to have enough time to do it then,

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Speaker 4: but we're going to have to kind of go rapid

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Speaker 4: fire because there has been so much stuff that has

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Speaker 4: come to come to light, and I just want to

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Speaker 4: get your take on it. Again. We're speaking to doctor Curry,

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Speaker 4: Myer's criminologist. He does great work. Savannah Guthrie and actually

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Speaker 4: she's with the Today Show, so she is well known,

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Speaker 4: well known figure. It's so crazy. I remembered just her

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Speaker 4: Joy's infectious. I know she's a liberal. I don't care

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Speaker 4: about her politics. I want to see her mom. I

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Speaker 4: want to see her mom get home safely. I want

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Speaker 4: to see this family get some closure. This is just

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Speaker 4: a horrendous and a weird case for me, I don't

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Speaker 4: know about for you, Doc, I mean, you've got experience

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Speaker 4: like crazy. So I want to make sure that we

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Speaker 4: touch on that after the break, but this case just

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Speaker 4: seems so abnormal. And I do want to say you

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Speaker 4: made mention of too, that perhaps the sheriff has shared

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Speaker 4: too much information. I have heard other criminologists say that

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Speaker 4: as well, a little bit too much information unless you're

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Speaker 4: going to lead the public in a direction in which

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Speaker 4: you know they can help participate somehow, some way, some

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Speaker 4: form or smoke out the smoke out the criminal. But

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Speaker 4: I want to get into more of this after the

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Speaker 4: break with doctor Curry Myers. You guys stay tuned. Let

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Speaker 4: Curry Myers. Doc real quickly, tell the people where they

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Speaker 4: can go to find you, to read your work, to

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Speaker 4: watch your You've got a radio show as well, now,

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Speaker 4: so tell people where they can go to find you.

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Speaker 5: My substack is available. All my published works I put

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Speaker 5: on substack. It's doctor Currymeiers dot substack dot com. Or

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Speaker 5: if they just google, you know, doctor Curry Myers, all

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Speaker 5: everything will come up that I do, so research papers,

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Speaker 5: policy papers, interviews, all those things, op adds. Anything that

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Speaker 5: I produce is put on those I do have a

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Speaker 5: radio show. It's out of San Bernardino, but it's streamed

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Speaker 5: nationwide on all your favorite platforms. It's called America's Criminologists.

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Speaker 5: With doctor Curry Myers. It's on k M E. T

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Speaker 5: and San Bernardino right after the Dave Ramsey Show, so

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Speaker 5: and right before the Kevin mccolla show. So I'm trying

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Speaker 5: to keep people from from leaving during during those two

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Speaker 5: important people that I that I fit in between. It's

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Speaker 5: every Tuesday America's Criminologists with doctor Curry.

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Speaker 4: All right, So all right, Doc, I literally probably have

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Speaker 4: about ten questions for you. So I like to go

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Speaker 4: rapid fire in a very short period of time. So

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Speaker 4: let's get right to this. You made mentioned that obviously

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Speaker 4: this is going to be a digital case. This case

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Speaker 4: seems very weird to me, Doc. I mean, I can't

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Speaker 4: even remember the last time that I've heard of a

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Speaker 4: ransom case played out in the public like this. How

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Speaker 4: usual or unusual is this?

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Speaker 5: First off, Well, the ransom part is what bothers me. Okay,

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Speaker 5: it's extremely unusual for ransoms to be delivered in this manner.

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Speaker 5: It was put out to a local station and TMZ

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Speaker 5: I think at the same time with certain deadlines. This

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Speaker 5: you know what occurs when you see this, it's after

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Speaker 5: the fact. You wouldn't There are a lot of people

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Speaker 5: out there that take advantage of this kind of chaos

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Speaker 5: to try to give notoriety. There's a lot of mental

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Speaker 5: health issues that are out there. I'm wondering whether or

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Speaker 5: not that's some sort of copycat situation where somebody's trying

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Speaker 5: to take that the famous side of this and introduce

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Speaker 5: themselves into it by getting involved in the ransom. Most

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Speaker 5: ransom notes, I would say it's close to seventy five

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Speaker 5: percent are handled too directly to the family and and

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Speaker 5: or to police. It does not go to the media. Now,

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Speaker 5: there have been some serial killers in time that have

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Speaker 5: bt K as a perfect example out of Wichita, Kansas

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Speaker 5: that actually gave information to the media and not necessarily

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Speaker 5: to the police. So it does occur, but it's unusual.

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Speaker 5: So about seventy five percent of the time, you're going

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Speaker 5: to see this where it's going to go directly to

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Speaker 5: the family because you want to prove proof of life.

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Speaker 5: It's the first thing that law enforcement and the family.

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Speaker 4: Is going to do is that's what they've been asking,

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Speaker 4: is that is.

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Speaker 5: That proof of life? So you got to then you've

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Speaker 5: got to validate the authentensity of the of the document

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Speaker 5: that has been sent in, and you've got to avoid

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Speaker 5: contaminating evidence because they've been this has been shared with

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Speaker 5: the media. Who knows who touched it? Because there's valuable

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Speaker 5: DNA on a piece of paper that could go somewhere.

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Speaker 5: Depends on whether it's how it's written, whether it's handwritten

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Speaker 5: or on its computer. But somebody's going to touch it,

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Speaker 5: touch it wrong, and if they even that they're careful,

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Speaker 5: they may put they may have DNA on a envelope,

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Speaker 5: on a stamp. There's all kinds of things that could

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Speaker 5: occur in which they put it in. And time is

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Speaker 5: of the essence, Carl. I mean, the golden window here

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Speaker 5: is about forty eight to seventy two hours.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and we're on day we're on day six. The

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Speaker 4: first timeline that this perpetrator or perpetrators or deadline was Thursday,

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Speaker 4: which was yesterday. I'm not sure if that is Mountain time,

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Speaker 4: Pacific time, whatever, Easter, I don't know, but it was

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Speaker 4: supposed to be five pm yesterday apparently, they said, or Monday.

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Speaker 4: I mean, that seems weird to me. You know, they

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Speaker 4: asked for money in bitcoin, but now they're not communicating

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Speaker 4: as much. The family has been asking for proof of life.

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Speaker 4: So these are just some of the latest things as

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Speaker 4: my phone blanks out, so I want to go over

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Speaker 4: these real quick. So here's the blood found splattered on

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Speaker 4: Nancy's front stoop. But that's the mother Nancy Guthrie was

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Speaker 4: confirmed to be hers. You guys have already heard the

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Speaker 4: news that she I mean, she literally has a pacemaker

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Speaker 4: synced to her iPhone, so at some point she walked

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Speaker 4: far enough from her iPhone for that to be on sync.

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Speaker 4: But there's an extensive timeline no movements that night she vanished.

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Speaker 4: When she vanished included a forty minute period during which

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Speaker 4: Nancy Guthrie may have been abducted. So apparently doc literally

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Speaker 4: this whatever occurred on her property took place for around

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Speaker 4: forty minutes. There are still no suspects in the case. Nobody,

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Speaker 4: including Savannah's brother in law, is being rude out as

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Speaker 4: a possible suspect. You mentioned this. Her home security camera

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Speaker 4: detected a person moving around two am Sunday, but did

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Speaker 4: not record the video, And I think you're right. I

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Speaker 4: think it was one forty seven. But they didn't leave

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Speaker 4: the property till almost two thirty a m. In the morning,

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Speaker 4: which is insane. What is I This is just so

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Speaker 4: crazy to me. What does that suggest forty minutes on

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Speaker 4: that property, apparently of abducting Nancy Guthrie. What does that say, doc,

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Speaker 4: Because that I'm thinking, if I'm kidnapping her, I want

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Speaker 4: to be in and out. That doesn't make sense to me.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, it doesn't make sense either, And so it makes

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Speaker 5: you wonder whether or not two things, whether or not

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Speaker 5: they were also doing some sort of robbery and taking

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Speaker 5: that time to go through and try to find jewels, cash,

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Speaker 5: those kinds of important things that that they may be

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Speaker 5: able to use. That's what it may be. Then there's

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Speaker 5: also something else to consider that law enforcement cannot you know,

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Speaker 5: they have to consider this considerably, and that is that

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Speaker 5: when you get older, there's a lot of trips and

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Speaker 5: falls that occur, and when you have a trip and fall,

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Speaker 5: that means you could fall on your head, you could

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Speaker 5: have some sort of brain bleed that occurs. So it

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Speaker 5: depends on when this injury occurred, and as you go in,

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Speaker 5: she could have been in a state of being lost

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Speaker 5: and wandered around and wandered out on her own and

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Speaker 5: then walk somewhere and then could have been overcome by

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Speaker 5: some of the elements. You can't discount that, So law

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Speaker 5: enforcement on top of looking for the fact that somebody

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Speaker 5: may have kidnapped her, they can't discount the fact that

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Speaker 5: this is something else. And again, the ransom note is

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Speaker 5: somebody that's got a mental illness issue and has totally

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Speaker 5: made the thing up.

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Speaker 4: So that means and there was one hoaxer out there,

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Speaker 4: So they've already arrested one hoaxer.

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Speaker 5: And where there's one, there's more because once again, anytime

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Speaker 5: it goes into a huge case where there's where there's

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Speaker 5: media exposure, there's just some quite frankly, there's people that

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Speaker 5: are has major mental illness, uh that you know, take

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Speaker 5: advantage of these things. So but but the problem is

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Speaker 5: law enforcement resources are you know, they gotta they got

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Speaker 5: they got to look into that, and they got to

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Speaker 5: spend time trying to identify the ransom note and the

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Speaker 5: validity the ransom note. But they also have to look

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Speaker 5: at other probabilities. And if I were there, one of

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Speaker 5: the probabilities would be she was a trip and fall

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Speaker 5: herself bad and in that period she walked out and

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Speaker 5: succumbed to the elements. So they've got to do a

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Speaker 5: hard target search, you know, for blocks around that house

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Speaker 5: to see if she may be there because in most abductions,

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Speaker 5: you got a seventy six percent chance that you're probably

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Speaker 5: gonna be murdered within the first three hours of that case. Now,

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Speaker 5: elderly victims have been a little bit different, but that's

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Speaker 5: affied to seven day critical for life recovery because sometimes

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Speaker 5: the elderly are not put into that same position.

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Speaker 4: But let me read this headline.

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Speaker 1: Doc.

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Speaker 4: I'm sorry to interrupt, but I see this on the

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Speaker 4: New York Post. I'm assuming this is a new headline.

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Speaker 4: Nancy Guthrie quote unquote, safe but scared and aware of

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Speaker 4: kidnappers chilling demands. Ransom note claims. So I don't know

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Speaker 4: if this is I don't even have time to go

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Speaker 4: into the details of this, but I see that this

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Speaker 4: broke on the New York Post, So apparently this is

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Speaker 4: the latest Nancy Guthrie. Nancy Guthrie safe but scared and

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Speaker 4: aware of kidnappers chilling demands.

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Speaker 1: UH.

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Speaker 4: Nancy Guthries for perdic Purported kidnappers claimed uh in a

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Speaker 4: ransom note to TMZ that the eighty four year old

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Speaker 4: TV host mom is safe but scared and knows exactly

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Speaker 4: what chilling demands are being made. For her return. Are

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Speaker 4: you buying that, Doc.

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Speaker 5: Boy, that's just another turn in the case. It just is,

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Speaker 5: you know, making my head spin. So we there's there's something,

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Speaker 5: there's something that is not doesn't fit very well. Hell

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Speaker 5: so that's it. There's there's a lot of things that

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Speaker 5: have to have to be considered. I still don't discount

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Speaker 5: that maybe she had an injury. Maybe somebody helped her

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Speaker 5: with that injury. Maybe somebody maybe she she if you

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Speaker 5: think she felt so bad, If she felt so bad, Carl,

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Speaker 5: maybe she wanted to potentially end her life. There's all

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Speaker 5: and you know, have somebody disconnect the nests. There's all

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Speaker 5: kinds of things that law enforcement UH has to consider

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Speaker 5: in these kinds of cases, especially when it takes this turn.

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Speaker 5: I'm very glad she's been found.

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Speaker 4: Well, she's not been found. They're claiming that this is

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Speaker 4: another ransom note an okay, okay, yeah, so another note

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Speaker 4: not saying that she's been found, but another note. And

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Speaker 4: I mean she was literally the reason why they knew

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Speaker 4: to check on her is because she didn't show up

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Speaker 4: to church. She went to church that evening. Just real quickly, Doc,

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Speaker 4: we have less than twenty seconds. Could this be somebody

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Speaker 4: that knows her well.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean generally, this isn't an area that's easy

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Speaker 5: to get to at spiders around on the roads. Again,

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Speaker 5: the laws of probability, as she probably knew the person

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Speaker 5: that took her, or is a friend of somebody associated

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Speaker 5: with that.

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Speaker 4: Okay, we'll have doctor Curry Meyers back on for next

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Speaker 4: week to assess this. Thank you, doct