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Speaker 1: Life Audio.

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Speaker 2: Hello, Hello, and welcome to the Confessions of a Christian

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Speaker 2: Alcoholic podcast. I am your host, John Seidel. This is

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Speaker 2: your home for real stories, radical vulnerability, and remarkable comebacks.

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Speaker 2: In the end, this podcast is a place for the desperate,

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Speaker 2: the downtrodden, the destitute, and especially the drunk. But it's

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Speaker 2: also a place of hope and healing. I know that

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Speaker 2: firsthand because I'm the Christian who became an alcoholic, not

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Speaker 2: the other way around. Today, I've found sobriety after decades

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Speaker 2: of struggling. But more importantly than finding sobriety, I found Jesus.

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Speaker 2: My prayer is that as I interview people just like

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Speaker 2: you and just like me, along with professionals in the

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Speaker 2: fields of trauma, faith and addiction recovery, you will find

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Speaker 2: the piece that is available to you through Christ on

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Speaker 2: the other side of whatever you're going through and whatever

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Speaker 2: addiction that might be. Because let's face it, we're all

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Speaker 2: addicted to something so welcome, let's get radically vulnerable as

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Speaker 2: we explore what it looks like to be on this

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Speaker 2: journey of MESSI sanctification. We'll be right back after this.

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Speaker 2: I don't have a problem with alcohol because I don't

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Speaker 2: do fill in the blank. I can't tell you how

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Speaker 2: many times I said that in my adult life, and

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Speaker 2: then especially during what I call my severe slide period,

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Speaker 2: the period where I was and looked like the traditional alcoholic.

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Speaker 2: Although even when I say that, right, like, there are

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Speaker 2: plenty of things that I did that a quote unquote

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Speaker 2: traditional alcoholic would do. And yet I still have people

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Speaker 2: in my life who are like, are you sure? Are

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Speaker 2: you sure? Because you weren't doing that? And see, that's

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Speaker 2: the problem. It's one of the big problems. It's one

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Speaker 2: of the big lies that so many people believe is

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Speaker 2: that in order to really have a problem with alcohol

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Speaker 2: or drinking, it has to meet a certain threshold. And

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Speaker 2: that threshold looks like the person that we see in

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Speaker 2: It's a Wonderful Life, Right, It's the person that we

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Speaker 2: see in Hollywood. It's the person that we see on

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Speaker 2: social media who is squandering everything they have. And the

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Speaker 2: reality is that in order to realize that you need

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Speaker 2: to change your relationship with alcohol, it can look like

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Speaker 2: a variety of things. Today's guest makes that very clear,

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Speaker 2: even though I think by the end she looks like

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Speaker 2: the person that she thought was the quote unquote true alcoholic.

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Speaker 2: She went to the store one day to get some

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Speaker 2: more wine, and before she knew it, she was pulled

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Speaker 2: over and being hauled to jail because five people had

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Speaker 2: called the police to report her erratic driving. But no,

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Speaker 2: she didn't have a problem because she didn't look like

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Speaker 2: the person that she thought actually has a problem. And

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Speaker 2: so I'm excited for you to meet Carol. Carol McCracken.

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Speaker 2: She is one of those people that has been in

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Speaker 2: recovery we say that term addiction recovery for a while.

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Speaker 2: And she even surprises me with a story that she

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Speaker 2: tells that I had no idea and I did not

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Speaker 2: see coming. So stick around for that. But I think

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Speaker 2: in Carol's story, hopefully you see yourself. And maybe this

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Speaker 2: is the first time you've listened to the podcast Welcome,

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Speaker 2: maybe this was sent to you by someone. I think

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Speaker 2: what I want you to get out of it, and

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Speaker 2: what Carol will talk about at the end is that

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Speaker 2: you're drinking doesn't have to fit into a tightly defined

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Speaker 2: way or space to realize, Hey, I think something's off here.

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Speaker 2: I think something's off here. So you're listening to this,

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Speaker 2: it's Christmas Eve when this podcast episode is coming out.

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Speaker 2: Maybe you're realizing, hey, I am, I've given myself permission

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Speaker 2: to just go crazy tonight because it's Christmas Eve and

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Speaker 2: I'm going to go on a binge or that's what

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Speaker 2: I did last year. But maybe that doesn't Maybe that

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Speaker 2: means you don't drink for a week. Well, can I

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Speaker 2: tell you that if you're being tapped on the inside

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Speaker 2: that hey, maybe that's not the right way to treat alcohol.

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Speaker 2: It's not the right way to treat alcohol. So hopefully

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Speaker 2: you're encouraged today by Carol's story. So without further ado,

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Speaker 2: Carol McCracken. Carol, thank you so much for joining the

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Speaker 2: Confessions of a Christian Alcoholic podcast. This is great. You know,

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Speaker 2: we've had a conversation, like I said in the intro

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Speaker 2: on your podcast. Yes, and I enjoyed that so much

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Speaker 2: and I was like, you know, I want to have

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Speaker 2: you on my podcast, and so here we are, and

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Speaker 2: so I'm glad we were able to do this.

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Speaker 1: Me too. Thanks for inviting me. It's great to see

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Speaker 1: you again.

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Speaker 2: And I think you know what is what is interesting

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Speaker 2: I was talking about I was meeting with someone with coffee,

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Speaker 2: meeting for someone, wheating with someone for coffee, there you go,

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Speaker 2: apparently any more of it today, and you know the

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Speaker 2: reality is and they said this, they said, you know,

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Speaker 2: you're relatively new in your recovery. And it's interesting because

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Speaker 2: to someone who's a week in, I'm an old timer, right,

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Speaker 2: But to someone who's been doing this for twenty five years,

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Speaker 2: I'm a I'm a young whipper snapper, right, And so

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Speaker 2: it's interesting. And I think you have a perspective as

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Speaker 2: someone who's been in this world longer than I have,

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Speaker 2: and so I will want to you know, I want

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Speaker 2: to get those perspectives. And so I'm excited to have you.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you, thank you.

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Speaker 2: So tell us just a little bit about your self.

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Speaker 2: Just introduce yourself to everyone. I know you're down there

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Speaker 2: in Alabama, but but introduce everyone to you.

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Speaker 1: All right. My name is Carol McCracken, And as John said,

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Speaker 1: I am from Orange Beach, Alabama, which is as south

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Speaker 1: as you can get in Alabama without actually being in Florida.

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Speaker 1: We're by the Gulf of Mexico, so it's a nice place,

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Speaker 1: nice and mild in the winter time. So I love

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Speaker 1: being here. I am on staff at a church. I'm

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Speaker 1: a discipleship minister. I am a wedding planner, and I'm

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Speaker 1: on two podcasts, so I stay a little bit busy,

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Speaker 1: but I like it that way.

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Speaker 2: And so you have the Faith over Fear podcast, which

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Speaker 2: I was on, and then what's the other one.

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Speaker 1: The other one is called your Daily Bible Verse and

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Speaker 1: I'm on a team with I'm the Wednesday host on

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Speaker 1: that team, and we take a verse of the Bible

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Speaker 1: and we just dig down into it. So it's great,

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Speaker 1: different perspective and all the team members, so people seem

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Speaker 1: to enjoy it.

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Speaker 2: That's great. That's great. Okay, So but Faith over Fear

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Speaker 2: you had me on to talk about my story, yes,

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Speaker 2: And you know you have your own story, right, and

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Speaker 2: so I would love for you to tell that story

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Speaker 2: as ill as I tell people. I just kind of

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Speaker 2: chase rabbits and so we'll find little areas and hovels

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Speaker 2: to visit as you tell it. But you know, I

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Speaker 2: think we relate to stories, and you know, you offer

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Speaker 2: a story and a perspective that I think is important.

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Speaker 2: So tell us your story as it relates to alcohol.

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Speaker 1: To alcohol indeed, well, I love chardonay and as a

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Speaker 1: teenager it was fine. I can remember sitting at my

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Speaker 1: best friend's table, just thinking I am civil adult, I

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Speaker 1: am having a glass of wine, and so it was fine.

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Speaker 1: I probably overindulged in college, but everybody else was indulging too,

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Speaker 1: so I didn't think too terribly much of it. But

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Speaker 1: I come from a family of alcoholics. I come by

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Speaker 1: it naturally on both sides. But of course in minivete,

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Speaker 1: it wasn't gonna happen to me. That's not something that

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Speaker 1: would happen to me. And so I got married and

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Speaker 1: after eight years we had a special needs child and

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Speaker 1: he's the love of my life. But he was hard

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Speaker 1: to raise, and we were forever on pins and needles.

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Speaker 1: You just never knew what would happen next. He did

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Speaker 1: the best he could, but if he was gonna make

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Speaker 1: a decision, it was gonna be the wrong one. And

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Speaker 1: so they were forever calling me from school, is this

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Speaker 1: missus McCracken. And I got to the point where I

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Speaker 1: was like, who wants to know? Yeah, you know, I

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Speaker 1: saw things that I never thought that I would have

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Speaker 1: to look like, God was with me the whole time

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Speaker 1: and guided me, but it was it was tough, tough

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Speaker 1: raising him.

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Speaker 2: And so and so real quickly you said God was

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Speaker 2: with you. So you're you're a Christian, you're a believer.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yes, And that's what drew me to your book

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Speaker 1: because they think, you know, if you're a Christian, how

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Speaker 1: can you be an alcoholic? And I'm here to agree

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Speaker 1: with you. You certainly can, all right, So I just

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Speaker 1: wanted to clarify that.

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Speaker 2: So go ahead.

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Speaker 1: Oh I'm glad you did, because you know that's that's

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Speaker 1: a part of the story. What was happening is my

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Speaker 1: son was difficult and just being in constant stress all

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Speaker 1: the time, constantly walking on eggshells. My husband and I

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Speaker 1: disagreed on how to raise him. We were together, but

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Speaker 1: we weren't with our methodology. There's no rule book written

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Speaker 1: on that, and so sometime we just got to where

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Speaker 1: we got tired of feeling, and so the alcohol can

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Speaker 1: some went up and up and up. We were just

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Speaker 1: trying to escape, We were trying to numb. Meanwhile, I

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Speaker 1: am a Bible study teacher, you know, and so Bible

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Speaker 1: study teachers at the time, I thought they need to

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Speaker 1: present affront that people will respect their authority, that they

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Speaker 1: know what they're talking about in scripture, that I should

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Speaker 1: present no problems to them. And that was the worst

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Speaker 1: thing I did it was isolation. You know, I was

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Speaker 1: not being authentic, and so I learned that if you

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Speaker 1: if you didn't appear authentically, you really weren't doing ministry correctly.

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Speaker 2: Although ironically, if you didn't appear authentically but you were

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Speaker 2: you you if you really didn't appear in a fake way,

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Speaker 2: right like, like the irony there is, Oh, I have

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Speaker 2: to present this different person than who I am or

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Speaker 2: where I'm going with And it's interesting. You know. I'll

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Speaker 2: ask you this question because someone asked me this question,

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Speaker 2: okay earlier this week and they said, John, so are

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Speaker 2: you telling me that you were just like living this

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Speaker 2: double life? And I said, well, I mean, yeah, that's

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Speaker 2: one way to put it. But it wasn't always as

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Speaker 2: as intentionally that way, right Like. It wasn't like I

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Speaker 2: know that I'm this and I'm a fake and fraud

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Speaker 2: and I'm going to pretend to be this person from

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Speaker 2: the hours of nine to midnight. So how do you

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Speaker 2: describe that kind of duality?

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Speaker 1: That's an interesting thing. You never let them see a

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Speaker 1: sweat was how I was raised. So you power through

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Speaker 1: you power through I made no conscious decision to close

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Speaker 1: off one part of myself and be another person. I

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Speaker 1: was not consciously trying to be someone else, but I

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Speaker 1: was trying to fit into the role that I thought

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Speaker 1: that I was to portray in order to honor God. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I meant well, but I screwed it up right right?

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Speaker 2: Okay, So let's I guess jump back into the story then, So, well,

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Speaker 2: let me ask this quite You said it slowly started?

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Speaker 2: What was it slow? Like? Was that over at a

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Speaker 2: period of seven years? Three years? Seven years?

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Speaker 1: About seven years?

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Speaker 2: Okay?

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Speaker 1: And I needed to learn some lessons in that, because

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Speaker 1: there's a thing called emotional capacity, and it is it.

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Speaker 1: We just did this on the podcast, the Faith Overfeard

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Speaker 1: podcast yesterday. So I've got a therapeutic explanation for that.

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Speaker 1: You can have different levels of accepting stress. So in therapy,

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Speaker 1: they say visualize a bridge and somebody gives you a

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Speaker 1: twenty pound weight. You know, well, it's not easy. You

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Speaker 1: know you can carry that all day, that's no problem.

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Speaker 1: Somebody gives you another twenty pound weight that's your stressor,

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Speaker 1: and you're like, okay, it's not terribly fun. I can

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Speaker 1: power through. I can make it. Then they give you

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Speaker 1: a sixty pound weight and all of a sudden your

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Speaker 1: back starts to bow. You can't stand up straight anymore.

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Speaker 1: You're doing everything you can to carry it, and your

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Speaker 1: bridge just breaks. It cannot hold the weight. So my

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Speaker 1: emotional capacity is these things kept coming to me, coming

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Speaker 1: to me, coming to me. I'm like, I'm tired of feeling.

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Speaker 1: I'm tired of feeling. That's when I began to drink

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Speaker 1: wine more and more and more. And for me, you

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Speaker 1: have to have more as you progress. Alcohol is a

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Speaker 1: progressive disease. And nobody ever told me that. I was

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Speaker 1: not educated. Even in the family of alcoholics. I was

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Speaker 1: not educated and did not recognize what was happening. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and to me, an alcoholic is somebody who sleeps on

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Speaker 1: a park bench. They're down and out. Yep, they're unworthy.

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Speaker 1: They made very bad decisions and we're paying consequences.

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Speaker 2: It's that, it's the it's the alcoholic in uh, it's

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Speaker 2: a wonderful life, right. Well, yeah, you know, like and

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Speaker 2: I and and I think in some ways, even just

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Speaker 2: that movie itself has probably shaped more people than they

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Speaker 2: realize in their view of alcoholic because I was the

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Speaker 2: same way. I was like, well, I'm not living under

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Speaker 2: a bridge, right, I haven't ostracized everyone. You know, people

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Speaker 2: still love me. I'm still you know, and not in

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Speaker 2: a prideful way, but like, I still have a family.

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Speaker 2: I still have I haven't squandered all my money.

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Speaker 1: You know, any bails.

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Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, and so I'm good.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well get this. Here's another one. I finally realized

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Speaker 1: probably I had maybe just a little bit of an issue.

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Speaker 1: And I went to go talk to my pastor, who

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Speaker 1: I didn't realize was an occasion, uneducated as I was,

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Speaker 1: and I'm like, I think I might have a problem.

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Speaker 1: And he's like, well, do you drink every day?

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Speaker 2: No?

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Speaker 1: I don't. I was more of a binge drinker. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I could stop for a period of time. So it's like, cool, whoa,

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Speaker 1: I'm not an alcoholic. My pastor said, so I'm in

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Speaker 1: the clear, so I don't have to do anything.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So it continued.

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Speaker 2: So it take us okay, so take us back over

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Speaker 2: this seven years. What did that progressive kind of drinking

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Speaker 2: look like over that court over Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Well, honestly, every single time I thought I'm just gonna

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Speaker 1: have one glass of wine, I meant it. I could

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Speaker 1: have sworn in court that's all I was gonna do.

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Speaker 2: Yep, yep.

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Speaker 1: And I thought, I just have a little more and

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Speaker 1: a little more. And it's just it's weird to explain

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Speaker 1: something like that to somebody that has control over a substance.

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Speaker 1: You really can't tell somebody how that is that a

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Speaker 1: substance controls you. I feel like I'm a normal, rational

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Speaker 1: human being. But what alcohol did to me was it

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Speaker 1: scrambled my brains my judgment, yeah, you know, just looking

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Speaker 1: at it. But I still didn't have a problem. Don't forget,

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Speaker 1: you know. My pastor said I didn't have a problem.

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Speaker 1: But yet I was drinking more and more quantities. I

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Speaker 1: was doing things like justifying, go, oh, I don't want

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Speaker 1: to worry my husband. He doesn't need to see that

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Speaker 1: I've had a bottle of wine and I'm starting another,

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Speaker 1: you know. So I thought, you know, alcoholics lie to

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Speaker 1: themselves and to others, and they don't realize how selfish

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Speaker 1: they are. And so I was doing this all for

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Speaker 1: their sake, and I was hiding stuff, and I was

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Speaker 1: doing stuff that I would never recognize in my sober mind.

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Speaker 1: To justify it completely, I didn't go out. I stayed

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Speaker 1: at home, which could be worse.

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Speaker 2: And I was the same way I'm like, I'm not

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Speaker 2: a party drinker. That's it. I'm just I'm just staying

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Speaker 2: at home. Who am I hurting you?

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Speaker 1: That's not done anything, That's exactly it, you know. So

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Speaker 1: it just it depressed me. It depressed me, and our

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Speaker 1: marriage started because of our child going like this. We

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Speaker 1: were at odds with each other, and my marriage just

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Speaker 1: imploded at that point in time. So I don't even

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Speaker 1: believe in divorce, but yet here I was. And so

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Speaker 1: we ended up separating and my son came to live

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Speaker 1: with me. He picked He was seventeen years old at

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Speaker 1: the time, but he could not live with the amount

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Speaker 1: of stress that was in the house, and so we

295
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Speaker 1: needed to do something, and I felt I had no

296
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Speaker 1: other choice. And so the worst when I finally realized

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Speaker 1: that I was having a problem. We had not divorced yet,

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Speaker 1: we were getting to that point of it, and so

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Speaker 1: I can't even believe this, but it was the best

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Speaker 1: thing that ever happened to me. I got in the

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Speaker 1: car because we were having company that was coming to visit,

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Speaker 1: and I went to go buy some more wine because

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Speaker 1: I stressed out they were coming and I needed to clean,

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Speaker 1: and I just thought i'd get one more bottle of wine,

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Speaker 1: and as I was driving, I'm like, whow, I'm not driving. Well,

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Speaker 1: this is not good, And so I pulled over to

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Speaker 1: the side of the road, which was fabulous. I'm so

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Speaker 1: glad that I did that. And the next thing you know,

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Speaker 1: a policeman pulled up behind me, flashing blue lights behind me.

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Speaker 1: And what I did not know is that five people

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Speaker 1: had called into the police saying I was driving erratically.

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Speaker 1: It didn't seem that bad to me at all. My

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Speaker 1: judgment was completely gone.

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Speaker 2: Wow.

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Speaker 1: And so they took me to the booking station, took

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Speaker 1: my fingerprints, had to blow I'm like, do you not

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Speaker 1: realize who I am? I'm the Bible study teacher.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And I had to face the fact that I could

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Speaker 1: not go to church the next day because I was

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Speaker 1: sitting in a holding so ew yeah. Yeah. And then

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Speaker 1: to further humiliate me, when I walked out, my mother

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Speaker 1: and my husband had to pay bail. Hmmm. I'm prideful

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Speaker 1: that kicked me. I think I had a problem that

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Speaker 1: I had to deal with at that point.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And at that moment, God said, how's it going for you?

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Speaker 1: How's life going your way? I wasn't an audible voice

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Speaker 1: or anything like that. But that was what my spirit said.

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Speaker 1: And he's like, you gotta do something now.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So let me back up. So you get the DUI.

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Speaker 1: I didn't get one.

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Speaker 2: Oh you wait, hold on, what to the story? Okay? Wait, okay,

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Speaker 2: Well then tell us that part.

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Speaker 1: Okay. I had to sit and for a while God

336
00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:04,200
Speaker 1: was working on me. Okay, and so you get this order.

337
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Speaker 1: I was not experienced. I didn't know how all of

338
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Speaker 1: this went. But I got a lawyer because I had

339
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Speaker 1: to go to court and I was scared to death.

340
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Speaker 1: Scared to death. Got to court and my lawyer went

341
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Speaker 1: and talked to a policeman. I didn't know what was

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Speaker 1: going on at that point. I'm in court. The judge

343
00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:27,520
Speaker 1: is looking and he calls Carol McCracken and a skulk

344
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Speaker 1: up there and he said, okay, you've never done this before.

345
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Speaker 1: Your record is clean. Do you promise not to do

346
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Speaker 1: it again? I said, I swear, I swear, and he

347
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Speaker 1: sent me to the court room. He said, just don't

348
00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:48,800
Speaker 1: do it again. I'm going to give you a ticket

349
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Speaker 1: for reckless walking since you weren't driving, and I'm going

350
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Speaker 1: to refund your bail. Don't do it again, Okay, that

351
00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:03,480
Speaker 1: was God wow, and nothing on my license. Nothing, But

352
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Speaker 1: I'm like, dear Lord in Heaven, you gave me a

353
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Speaker 1: second chance. That's all it took. I will never do

354
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Speaker 1: this again.

355
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Speaker 2: Is that true?

356
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Speaker 1: Yes?

357
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Speaker 2: Wow, Wow, We'll be right back after this. Okay, didn't

358
00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:25,720
Speaker 2: expect that part of it, but I do want to

359
00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:29,520
Speaker 2: go back then when it got to the point where

360
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Speaker 2: you get the dui, that's not a dui?

361
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Speaker 1: Right?

362
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Speaker 2: Was there was there people around you that were starting

363
00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:40,479
Speaker 2: to notice or say anything, or were you just really

364
00:21:40,560 --> 00:21:42,359
Speaker 2: kind of closed off and hiding it.

365
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Speaker 1: Nobody ever said a word to me.

366
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Speaker 2: My mother knew, okay, so.

367
00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:58,720
Speaker 1: It was apparent apparently, but nobody ever said a word

368
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Speaker 1: to me.

369
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Speaker 3: And so so what did your mom and husband say afterwards?

370
00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:07,720
Speaker 3: They were grace filled. They said, yeah, you got to

371
00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:12,080
Speaker 3: do something. We support you, okay. And so I went

372
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Speaker 3: to a twelve step program. I chose to do that

373
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Speaker 3: because at the time that was my resource. There was

374
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Speaker 3: a girl from church that I called and said, I

375
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Speaker 3: got to do something, help me, and she took me

376
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Speaker 3: to a program and that's what I needed.

377
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Speaker 2: And so now that's my question, what did you do

378
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Speaker 2: So you realize you have to do something, you walk out.

379
00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:31,480
Speaker 2: You get a second chance. What did that look like

380
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Speaker 2: for you?

381
00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:34,639
Speaker 1: My second chance was I needed to do something. My

382
00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:38,119
Speaker 1: personality I need to do something, do something, and so

383
00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:41,240
Speaker 1: I had to. I really had to do some changing

384
00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:44,040
Speaker 1: in my thought process. And I needed to be with

385
00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:50,399
Speaker 1: people that were just like me, that made mistakes. God

386
00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:52,840
Speaker 1: still loved me. I had to make sure I hadn't

387
00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:56,200
Speaker 1: let him down. I felt very, very unworthy for quite

388
00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:59,720
Speaker 1: some time, but then I understood the chemical makeup of it.

389
00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:03,640
Speaker 1: I was learning and educating myself. I was very, very

390
00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:07,040
Speaker 1: uneducated as to what the issue was. I mean, it's

391
00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:11,199
Speaker 1: a progressive disease, it's in the family. Why wouldn't it

392
00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:15,440
Speaker 1: hit me that kind of thing? And so I worked

393
00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:18,679
Speaker 1: my program. I ended up at church. That was the

394
00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:21,960
Speaker 1: biggest thing. I went to my Bible study and I said, look,

395
00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:24,240
Speaker 1: I got to tell you people something. I'm not qualified

396
00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:27,040
Speaker 1: to do this anymore. Let me tell you what happened.

397
00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:31,359
Speaker 1: They came up to me, laid their hands on me,

398
00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:36,119
Speaker 1: and they said, your ministry is much more authentic to

399
00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:40,080
Speaker 1: know that you are just like us on keeping on.

400
00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:47,320
Speaker 2: Wow, So how long you know, do you feel like

401
00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:52,000
Speaker 2: it took for you to really kind of reorient your

402
00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:56,320
Speaker 2: life after you know, after that, in a sense, rock

403
00:23:56,359 --> 00:23:57,240
Speaker 2: bottom moment.

404
00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:02,440
Speaker 1: A good year. It was a good year. I didn't

405
00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:04,920
Speaker 1: like it, but it took time because God had to

406
00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:08,240
Speaker 1: work some changes in me. You know, I still dreamed

407
00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:11,479
Speaker 1: about it at night. It's the weirdest thing. Many others

408
00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:14,360
Speaker 1: have had the same thing. You know, you dream you're drinking.

409
00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:16,960
Speaker 1: See you dream you're waking and I can feel my

410
00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:19,800
Speaker 1: heart pounding and then you wake up and it's like,

411
00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:24,040
Speaker 1: oh my God, thank you. I didn't And that took

412
00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:26,080
Speaker 1: a while. I don't know if it's my system or what,

413
00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:30,399
Speaker 1: but that took a good year. But after that, I

414
00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:34,840
Speaker 1: got to tell you, God took the craving away, and

415
00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:37,800
Speaker 1: it was a time when I would measure everything by

416
00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:39,880
Speaker 1: the time that I was sober. You know, it's been

417
00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:43,600
Speaker 1: a year. Okay, it's been two years, and then we

418
00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:45,720
Speaker 1: got up to ten years and it's kind of like, oh,

419
00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:48,040
Speaker 1: I forgot what happened on this day, and I'm like,

420
00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:53,240
Speaker 1: I'm not defined by it anymore. Yeah, And that was

421
00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:55,920
Speaker 1: my biggest I don't want to say I've arrived because

422
00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:58,919
Speaker 1: I haven't. I'm one drink away no matter what, but

423
00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:03,639
Speaker 1: I have no craving in my body anymore. For it,

424
00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:05,720
Speaker 1: the Lord blessed me. The thing that I had tried

425
00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:08,800
Speaker 1: for so long to deal with on my own willpower

426
00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:11,199
Speaker 1: wouldn't go away. I had to surrender it.

427
00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:16,080
Speaker 2: What you said, you said, you know, kind of took

428
00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:18,199
Speaker 2: that year. What were some of those things that you

429
00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:23,119
Speaker 2: started to learn in that year after, in that immediate year.

430
00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:28,720
Speaker 1: After, Well, some of the things were. There are other

431
00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:34,040
Speaker 1: people just like me, wired, just like me, challenged, just

432
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:39,399
Speaker 1: like me, and that didn't make me lesser. God was

433
00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:42,960
Speaker 1: with me. He supported me, and for whatever reason, he

434
00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:47,720
Speaker 1: didn't want Carol McCracken drinking alcohol that was not for her.

435
00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:54,320
Speaker 1: I have grace for people that are alcoholics. I have

436
00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:57,399
Speaker 1: grace for people that don't know that they're alcoholics now

437
00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:00,800
Speaker 1: because I know just exactly how it feels. Therefore, I

438
00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:02,400
Speaker 1: think I ministered better that way.

439
00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:03,240
Speaker 2: Yeah.

440
00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:06,480
Speaker 1: I am a broken human being, just like anybody else.

441
00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:08,639
Speaker 1: And I think what that did is sometimes when people

442
00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:11,119
Speaker 1: look at a Bible study teacher, they put him on

443
00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:15,280
Speaker 1: a pedestal that they don't deserve to be on. And

444
00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:19,280
Speaker 1: so I can relate to people better. The twelve Step

445
00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:22,520
Speaker 1: program showed me that there are people that have struggles

446
00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:25,240
Speaker 1: just like me more educated people. I needed to be

447
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:29,280
Speaker 1: educated more than anything else. I needed to learn that

448
00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:35,840
Speaker 1: there was this maybe a symptom of a deeper issue. Yeah,

449
00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:39,160
Speaker 1: and my husband was not as bad as I thought

450
00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:42,840
Speaker 1: that he was. We did end up divorcing after twenty

451
00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:45,399
Speaker 1: six years of marriage. But the good thing is is

452
00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:51,160
Speaker 1: we both worked on ourselves independently. And then my son,

453
00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:54,000
Speaker 1: after about a decade, did something so stupid. I felt

454
00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:57,200
Speaker 1: like I had to tell his father, and we met

455
00:26:57,280 --> 00:27:00,639
Speaker 1: at a restaurant and we just started crying because we

456
00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:02,440
Speaker 1: hadn't seen each other in a long time. It was

457
00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:05,119
Speaker 1: the weirdest thing. It sounds like a movie set, but

458
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:11,080
Speaker 1: it wasn't. It was an ugly cry, and we ended

459
00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:13,640
Speaker 1: up being able to see that each other had changed.

460
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:17,120
Speaker 1: We both gave up drinking, We both had done the

461
00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:20,439
Speaker 1: work that needed to be done, and it wasn't so

462
00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:22,960
Speaker 1: bad being with him anymore. And I think he would

463
00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:26,400
Speaker 1: say the same for me. And then we just kept

464
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:28,879
Speaker 1: being friends and being friends, and then we kind of

465
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:32,520
Speaker 1: remembered why we got married in the first place. So

466
00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:37,560
Speaker 1: we thought, last year we remarried, Wait, last this past year,

467
00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:40,320
Speaker 1: it's gonna be my anniversary, My year anniversary on the

468
00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:41,000
Speaker 1: twenty second.

469
00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:45,120
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, that's an incredible story.

470
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:50,720
Speaker 1: God, it is God. I couldn't have written this one. Wow.

471
00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:54,840
Speaker 2: That So how long were you divorced? Then?

472
00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:56,360
Speaker 1: About a decade?

473
00:27:56,680 --> 00:28:01,760
Speaker 2: Okay, that is incredible, Praise God. You know, it's funny

474
00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:04,280
Speaker 2: because I've heard some stories like that, but I've never

475
00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:07,640
Speaker 2: really met anyone who that's the story. And I've told

476
00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:10,080
Speaker 2: people that, you know, like, hey, listen, maybe this isn't

477
00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:12,400
Speaker 2: the end. Maybe God's got something and.

478
00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:17,520
Speaker 1: Heow redeeming God. He is a redeeming God. I mean,

479
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:21,200
Speaker 1: what a gift. I can't even put it into words

480
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:24,920
Speaker 1: sometimes and I'm like, yeah, here's my life. It really

481
00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:27,960
Speaker 1: stumped for a while because of the choices that I

482
00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:32,399
Speaker 1: made and because of circumstances surrounding me that I didn't

483
00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:33,080
Speaker 1: handle well.

484
00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:39,160
Speaker 2: The look, yeah, you mentioned that there were some things

485
00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:41,840
Speaker 2: at the root, right, and obviously you've read my book

486
00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:44,440
Speaker 2: and I talk about a lot of that. What are

487
00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:47,160
Speaker 2: some of those things or that thing or whatnot that

488
00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:50,720
Speaker 2: you realized was kind of at the root of that

489
00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:52,720
Speaker 2: why of drinking?

490
00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:56,360
Speaker 1: It was a worthiness issue. I felt like I had

491
00:28:56,400 --> 00:29:00,240
Speaker 1: to perform all of the time for people and God

492
00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:02,040
Speaker 1: to love me. I needed to do the work to

493
00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:04,440
Speaker 1: justify myself to God. I didn't know that I was thinking,

494
00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:06,120
Speaker 1: and at the time I just thought I was doing

495
00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:12,840
Speaker 1: a good job and he It is also I was

496
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:19,280
Speaker 1: very controlling out of fear. Fearful people tend to control.

497
00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:22,840
Speaker 1: I was all about the outcomes, getting to the outcomes,

498
00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:26,200
Speaker 1: that kind of thing. I was not surrendered. I knew God,

499
00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:29,160
Speaker 1: I love God, he loved me, but I couldn't take

500
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:34,360
Speaker 1: that next step into fully and completely surrendering. No matter

501
00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:38,360
Speaker 1: what I thought that I knew what was best for me,

502
00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:42,280
Speaker 1: I really did. I had no idea what was best

503
00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:46,080
Speaker 1: for me. And God rewrote my story to the outcome

504
00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:49,600
Speaker 1: that he preferred over mine because he got me to

505
00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:52,600
Speaker 1: the point of cutting me off. That the knees got me,

506
00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:55,320
Speaker 1: and my vanity got me, and my pride in my

507
00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:59,120
Speaker 1: little small town. Here are the police coming to the

508
00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:02,280
Speaker 1: Bible study tea, and I'm still like, don't you know

509
00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:08,040
Speaker 1: who I am. Carol McCracken doesn't do this yet she did.

510
00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:15,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, And then you know that, I think there's probably

511
00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:16,480
Speaker 2: a lot of people listening to this. You're like, yeah,

512
00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:19,840
Speaker 2: I'm controlling, Yeah, I have fear. Yeah, I have pride.

513
00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:23,280
Speaker 2: How did that then translate into the drinking. Is it

514
00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:26,360
Speaker 2: because the weight of that you needed, you needed to

515
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:27,560
Speaker 2: get away from the weight of that.

516
00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:33,640
Speaker 1: Yes, it sounds perfectly rational for me to tell you, John,

517
00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:35,920
Speaker 1: I know that my problems are not going to go

518
00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:38,360
Speaker 1: away if I have a glass of wine. The problems

519
00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:40,560
Speaker 1: will still be there. You and I both know that.

520
00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:45,200
Speaker 1: But I was so tired of being on the go, waiting, waiting,

521
00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:47,200
Speaker 1: waiting for the shoe to drop, waiting for the shoe

522
00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:49,480
Speaker 1: to drop. What's my son done? Now? Seems like we

523
00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:51,040
Speaker 1: had a good day, but I know it's not going

524
00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:54,840
Speaker 1: to last. What's happening? What's happening with my marriage? What's happening?

525
00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:57,000
Speaker 1: I mean, we got to the point where I think

526
00:30:57,200 --> 00:30:59,760
Speaker 1: my poor husband thought that I would fly down this

527
00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:05,120
Speaker 1: on my broom, just angry already, And that wasn't it

528
00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:07,520
Speaker 1: at all. But I was an angry human being.

529
00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:14,320
Speaker 2: So I want to go back because you mentioned as

530
00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:18,600
Speaker 2: you were telling the story that there were you started

531
00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:21,680
Speaker 2: to wonder if you had a problem, and you had

532
00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:23,840
Speaker 2: the part where you went to your pastor what were

533
00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:26,880
Speaker 2: some of those things that were happening that started to

534
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:30,760
Speaker 2: make you wonder if you had a problem with alcohol.

535
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:39,720
Speaker 1: How stupid I felt on a Monday morning when I

536
00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:44,680
Speaker 1: saw the amount of containers of wine. I got to

537
00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:48,040
Speaker 1: the point of being really justifying. It's like, okay, I

538
00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:49,960
Speaker 1: think I'm drinking too much, so I'm going to go

539
00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:52,480
Speaker 1: and I'm going to get just these little bottles of wine.

540
00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:56,040
Speaker 1: Then I'm going to control my portion. And it meant

541
00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:59,280
Speaker 1: perfect sense at the time, but I couldn't not drink

542
00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:03,880
Speaker 1: all four of the little bottles, right, and it's like, okay,

543
00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:08,280
Speaker 1: all right, that can't be right, but okay, we'll try again.

544
00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:11,680
Speaker 1: Every morning I would wake up convinced I'm not going

545
00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:13,720
Speaker 1: to do this. I'm not going to do this. I

546
00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:17,640
Speaker 1: can be fine, and I didn't have to drink every day,

547
00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:26,040
Speaker 1: but I preferred to It's like, what is going on here?

548
00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:31,440
Speaker 1: Then I would start emptying my trash so people wouldn't

549
00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:34,840
Speaker 1: see the amount that I actually had, so I wouldn't

550
00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:39,360
Speaker 1: have to deal with it every single Monday morning. I

551
00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:42,120
Speaker 1: had a headache and his stomach ache. I'd still go

552
00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:46,200
Speaker 1: to work, but I was not at my best. Yeah,

553
00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:51,840
Speaker 1: it's stuff that's glaringly apparent to me now, but I

554
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:56,400
Speaker 1: justified myself. It was the arguments that I would have

555
00:32:56,520 --> 00:33:00,920
Speaker 1: with my husband. That just seems so intense and so fueled.

556
00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:05,560
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, I wrote that in the book. I said,

557
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:08,440
Speaker 2: you know, I think sometimes what fueled that for me

558
00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:16,120
Speaker 2: was that I was feeling so whatever, it whatever, and

559
00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:21,240
Speaker 2: and you just you just can't help but truy like,

560
00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:25,880
Speaker 2: it just breeds chaos. Yeah, and so there's sometimes there's arguments,

561
00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:28,040
Speaker 2: why am I even picking this fight? You know, right?

562
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:31,840
Speaker 2: And it just because it you know, that's what sin

563
00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:39,000
Speaker 2: does when you're serving, because ultimately that is a worship.

564
00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:43,920
Speaker 2: It's an idolatry issue, right, my comfort, I want to

565
00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:45,720
Speaker 2: feel this way, I want to do that, And so

566
00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:49,080
Speaker 2: when we're putting those things on that pedal still in

567
00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:52,840
Speaker 2: our life, it can't help, but but affect the relationships

568
00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:54,160
Speaker 2: with our spouses, you.

569
00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:57,720
Speaker 1: Know, exactly right, And you don't realize in the middle

570
00:33:57,720 --> 00:33:59,520
Speaker 1: of it that you're doing that right, that it's the

571
00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:02,600
Speaker 1: biggest form of idolatry that you can do right there,

572
00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:06,720
Speaker 1: But you would do a lot to get that glass

573
00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:09,279
Speaker 1: of whatever. Yeah, you know, it's like and then you're

574
00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:12,760
Speaker 1: angry if you can't have it because you planned on it. Yeah,

575
00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:14,720
Speaker 1: why am I planning on a drink?

576
00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:15,120
Speaker 2: Do I?

577
00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:18,759
Speaker 1: Plan on eating a blade? Do I eat as much spaghetti?

578
00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:21,239
Speaker 1: I think you said something like that in your book.

579
00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:22,319
Speaker 1: Do I eat like that?

580
00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:22,799
Speaker 2: Like?

581
00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:24,880
Speaker 1: Do I eat plates and plates of food till I

582
00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:25,440
Speaker 1: throw up?

583
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:28,040
Speaker 2: Yeah? Right exactly.

584
00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:31,040
Speaker 1: I don't do that with anything else but the alcohol.

585
00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:35,680
Speaker 2: Right. I want to go to what your pastor said,

586
00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:40,960
Speaker 2: and I'm sure well meaning, but I think it highlights

587
00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:49,200
Speaker 2: a problem in that so many people believe, and I

588
00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:50,919
Speaker 2: was one of them, and I think you were probably

589
00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:53,640
Speaker 2: one of them, and that pastor was more that believe

590
00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:59,080
Speaker 2: that quantity is the you know quantity and and and

591
00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:02,759
Speaker 2: you know, time like how often you're doing it is

592
00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:09,480
Speaker 2: the only indicators of whether you have a problem with alcohol,

593
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:13,120
Speaker 2: right in what your story you know, and even what

594
00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:15,840
Speaker 2: mine because I would quit for a little bit, you know,

595
00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:20,120
Speaker 2: and and people who quit don't have aren't alcoholics, right,

596
00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:25,600
Speaker 2: But maybe speak to that person who is like, oh dang, yeah,

597
00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:27,520
Speaker 2: I can stop for a day, I can stop for

598
00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:30,560
Speaker 2: a week, but man, when I go, I go, or

599
00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:34,040
Speaker 2: or I'm thinking about maybe I'm not drinking, you know,

600
00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:35,960
Speaker 2: this week, but I can't. I'm thinking about, man, I

601
00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:38,239
Speaker 2: cannot wait. Maybe maybe there's someone that's like, you know,

602
00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:40,880
Speaker 2: I'm gonna do sober October, I'm gonna do dry January

603
00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:44,320
Speaker 2: or whatever. But the whole time, all they're thinking about

604
00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:47,640
Speaker 2: is when can I start drinking again? Like, exactly, speak

605
00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:52,640
Speaker 2: to that person who is experiencing some of that. What

606
00:35:52,719 --> 00:35:57,240
Speaker 2: would you say to them?

607
00:35:57,360 --> 00:36:00,560
Speaker 1: That's an interesting one. I did at so many times.

608
00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:03,680
Speaker 1: You know, when it's your willpower. Yeah, sure, I can

609
00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:05,840
Speaker 1: do this for Lent, no problem, because I don't have

610
00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:10,279
Speaker 1: a problem. But yay, the day after Lent, I can

611
00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:12,719
Speaker 1: have my glass of wine. I'm good now I did it.

612
00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:15,360
Speaker 1: This just proves to you that I'm not an alcoholic.

613
00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:16,600
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna have a glass of wine.

614
00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:16,759
Speaker 2: Now.

615
00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:19,960
Speaker 1: Does that make any degree of sense to you? Whatsoever

616
00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:26,160
Speaker 1: it did to me, I thought at the time. But

617
00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:32,680
Speaker 1: if you are thinking those thoughts that I cannot wait

618
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:36,480
Speaker 1: till I can start drink again, that's a problem.

619
00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:38,440
Speaker 2: Yeah.

620
00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:42,400
Speaker 1: It's not just accompanying your meal anymore. You are waiting

621
00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:45,520
Speaker 1: to when you can have it again. And I had

622
00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:48,600
Speaker 1: to get to the point I couldn't fathom what I

623
00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:53,800
Speaker 1: can never drink again. Oh, that's just about the worst

624
00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:57,399
Speaker 1: thing I can think of. Oh yeah, because I earned this,

625
00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:03,200
Speaker 1: I deserve this. But what I deserve is how I

626
00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:11,120
Speaker 1: feel without the alcohol, a full night sleep, clear thoughts,

627
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:16,799
Speaker 1: and even keel with my temper mm hmm. It was

628
00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:22,400
Speaker 1: more freeing for me to be without it, and I

629
00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:26,239
Speaker 1: thought it was freedom to be able to drink that

630
00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:27,279
Speaker 1: entrapped me.

631
00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:31,879
Speaker 2: I had that same thing, and I'm glad you brought

632
00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:37,360
Speaker 2: that up. And and even it still took me several

633
00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:41,600
Speaker 2: months after I stopped drinking to actually be able to

634
00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:46,440
Speaker 2: say the words I'm never going to drink again. Yeah,

635
00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:50,160
Speaker 2: and there are still times that you know, I need

636
00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:52,840
Speaker 2: to be like, hey, it's just for it's just for today,

637
00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:54,440
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. And that's not like me

638
00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:56,640
Speaker 2: saying I think I'm going to drink again, but where

639
00:37:56,640 --> 00:37:58,120
Speaker 2: I just need to I just need to focus on

640
00:37:58,120 --> 00:37:59,759
Speaker 2: the one foot in front of the other.

641
00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:00,640
Speaker 1: That's right.

642
00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:06,760
Speaker 2: But if there's one thing I hear consistently from people

643
00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:11,239
Speaker 2: who who are wrestling and who have an inkling that

644
00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:14,839
Speaker 2: they have a problem, they cannot imagine that idea of

645
00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:18,239
Speaker 2: I can't say that I will never drink again, and

646
00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:23,440
Speaker 2: that keeps them enslaved. And I think what you've realized,

647
00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:26,600
Speaker 2: what I've realized is that, like, I know, that's tough,

648
00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:31,040
Speaker 2: and I think there's a there's a it feels so final. Yeah,

649
00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:32,960
Speaker 2: it feels so final. And what I what I tell

650
00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:34,680
Speaker 2: those people, And I'm curious what you what you tell

651
00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:38,759
Speaker 2: those people? But is grieve it? Like it's okay to

652
00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:42,560
Speaker 2: grieve that. Like in the end, alcohol was there for

653
00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:45,040
Speaker 2: me when a lot of other things or people were not.

654
00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:48,799
Speaker 2: That's why it became such a problem, right, because it

655
00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:52,040
Speaker 2: was a good companion. It was a good form of escape.

656
00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:53,719
Speaker 2: It was a good way to not feel what I

657
00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:55,920
Speaker 2: wanted to feel or think what I wanted to think, right,

658
00:38:56,480 --> 00:38:58,960
Speaker 2: And so yeah, the idea of never being able to

659
00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:02,040
Speaker 2: have that in my life life again was really hard

660
00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:05,920
Speaker 2: and I grieved it, you know. And I've heard of

661
00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:07,719
Speaker 2: some people I didn't do this. I've heard of some

662
00:39:07,719 --> 00:39:09,319
Speaker 2: people like getting to the point where they're like, yep,

663
00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:11,520
Speaker 2: I'm gonna like literally kind of have a funeral for this,

664
00:39:11,719 --> 00:39:14,359
Speaker 2: and they do, like a mock funeral or something like great,

665
00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:18,680
Speaker 2: if that's what you need, we'll be right back after this.

666
00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:25,680
Speaker 2: How do you encourage people who are really struggling with

667
00:39:25,680 --> 00:39:28,040
Speaker 2: that idea, that finality of it.

668
00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:33,279
Speaker 1: One step at a time. You don't have to think

669
00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:35,800
Speaker 1: of it, just can you You were kind of getting

670
00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:37,439
Speaker 1: to it when you're like, Okay, just one more day.

671
00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:39,799
Speaker 1: I just have to make it through one more day,

672
00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:43,560
Speaker 1: one more day, and my twelve step program. I can

673
00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:45,760
Speaker 1: remember one time when I was having a really bad

674
00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:49,000
Speaker 1: day and so one of the old timers as we

675
00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:52,040
Speaker 1: called them, who had been there forever, was like, Carol,

676
00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:57,719
Speaker 1: what did you drink today? And I said no, and

677
00:39:57,719 --> 00:40:02,120
Speaker 1: he said, then you're having a good day. And so

678
00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:05,400
Speaker 1: it's just looking at it differently because you can't imagine

679
00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:08,759
Speaker 1: all this. It's the greatest of sacrifices you feel in

680
00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:11,360
Speaker 1: your mind. To never be able to have it again,

681
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:16,120
Speaker 1: that's just big. That's too big, that's too big to comprehend.

682
00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:18,720
Speaker 1: You have to taste a little bit of the freedom

683
00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:22,960
Speaker 1: you have to have the dreams that hold you hostage.

684
00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:27,799
Speaker 1: It's just step by step doing the next right thing.

685
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:30,080
Speaker 1: And I don't mean to sound trite because that worked

686
00:40:30,080 --> 00:40:30,319
Speaker 1: for me.

687
00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:35,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, to use your spaghetti reference earlier, which I think

688
00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:38,759
Speaker 2: is a good one. It's like, you know, if you

689
00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:41,959
Speaker 2: told me today that I could never eat spaghetti again,

690
00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:46,399
Speaker 2: I'd be like, Okay, I mean right, whatever, you know, right,

691
00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:50,480
Speaker 2: because spaghetti doesn't have a hold on me right now.

692
00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:52,400
Speaker 2: Maybe there's some people listening to this, They're like, I

693
00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:55,640
Speaker 2: love my spaghetti. You know, fine, I get, But that's

694
00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:58,279
Speaker 2: that's I think what happens with with alcohol, right, It's

695
00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:01,360
Speaker 2: the thing that has a on you. Right. If you

696
00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:06,160
Speaker 2: told me that I could you know, uh never, you know,

697
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:10,479
Speaker 2: I could never run marathons again, I'd be like, praise God.

698
00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:11,040
Speaker 1: Yeah.

699
00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:15,160
Speaker 2: But for some people who are who their idol is

700
00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:17,600
Speaker 2: exercise or their idol is marathons, you tell them they

701
00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:19,799
Speaker 2: can never run another marathon again, They're like, come on,

702
00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:22,719
Speaker 2: I can't imagine that, right, And so I try to

703
00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:25,080
Speaker 2: because there's some people, you know, who don't struggle with

704
00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:29,960
Speaker 2: this or just stop already, just give it up, right stop?

705
00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:33,279
Speaker 2: And I wish it were that easy, right, And that's

706
00:41:33,280 --> 00:41:35,160
Speaker 2: where it takes the power of the Holy Spirit, which

707
00:41:35,160 --> 00:41:36,640
Speaker 2: is where I want to go with you. It's because

708
00:41:36,640 --> 00:41:39,800
Speaker 2: I think, you know, you talked about doing a twelve

709
00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:44,160
Speaker 2: step program. What does it look like for you now

710
00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:50,880
Speaker 2: to continually pursue recovery and to continually make sure that

711
00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:53,160
Speaker 2: you are doing the things you need to do in

712
00:41:53,239 --> 00:41:55,200
Speaker 2: order to not get back to that place.

713
00:41:56,760 --> 00:42:00,279
Speaker 1: I had to surround myself with people that will look

714
00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:02,960
Speaker 1: at me if they were to see me out or

715
00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:08,280
Speaker 1: see me holding a beer or something like that, they'd

716
00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:10,359
Speaker 1: call me on it. I had to put it out there.

717
00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:12,200
Speaker 1: I had to make it public so that I wouldn't

718
00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:21,520
Speaker 1: hide it. I needed accountability that works for me. What

719
00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:22,759
Speaker 1: was the rest of the question.

720
00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:26,239
Speaker 2: Well, and then just you know, what does it look

721
00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:29,600
Speaker 2: like today? What does that look like today to make

722
00:42:29,640 --> 00:42:32,520
Speaker 2: sure that you're doing what you need to do to

723
00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:35,439
Speaker 2: pursue to make sure because you said it right, we're

724
00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:38,640
Speaker 2: both just one drink away, right, and so what does

725
00:42:38,680 --> 00:42:42,040
Speaker 2: that look like today to pursue X, Y or Z

726
00:42:42,360 --> 00:42:43,920
Speaker 2: in order to you don't go back to A, B

727
00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:44,200
Speaker 2: and C.

728
00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:48,520
Speaker 1: Well, the accountability is a big part of it, because

729
00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:51,160
Speaker 1: I don't want to say that I've taken it for granted,

730
00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:54,319
Speaker 1: but I don't identify with it like I used to.

731
00:42:56,239 --> 00:43:00,319
Speaker 1: It is not who I am anymore. And in twelve

732
00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:02,520
Speaker 1: step program, you know, you get this chip for the

733
00:43:02,560 --> 00:43:05,680
Speaker 1: amount of time that you get past it. And when

734
00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:08,600
Speaker 1: I got to the point of where I no longer

735
00:43:08,719 --> 00:43:12,480
Speaker 1: really remembered my anniversary, I'm like, oh, wow, it's been

736
00:43:12,560 --> 00:43:15,680
Speaker 1: fourteen years now, isn't that cool? That is so cool?

737
00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:18,920
Speaker 1: And I move on. It's not that it's not something

738
00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:21,799
Speaker 1: to celebrate, but it is not a part of who

739
00:43:21,960 --> 00:43:27,000
Speaker 1: I am anymore, and that is the greatest gift to

740
00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:30,879
Speaker 1: me that I don't think about it as much as

741
00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:33,640
Speaker 1: I used to. I'm also a wedding planner, and God

742
00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:36,120
Speaker 1: has given it to me. I just see so many

743
00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:39,760
Speaker 1: people at a wedding party that are acting so dumb,

744
00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:43,040
Speaker 1: do the dumbest things, and I'm like, I am so

745
00:43:43,160 --> 00:43:49,799
Speaker 1: glad I am not that person. It just reinforces how

746
00:43:50,040 --> 00:43:53,880
Speaker 1: dumb you can look when your brains are scrambled with alcohol.

747
00:43:54,560 --> 00:43:56,600
Speaker 2: You know you said you said that reminded me of

748
00:43:56,600 --> 00:43:59,880
Speaker 2: something I wanted to say earlier. But you know, I

749
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:04,440
Speaker 2: think I love I love exploring some of the science

750
00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:07,960
Speaker 2: related to alcohol and what happens in our brains. In

751
00:44:08,080 --> 00:44:11,200
Speaker 2: One of the things that has been helpful for me

752
00:44:12,239 --> 00:44:15,120
Speaker 2: is that alcohol shuts down our prefrontal cortex, and our

753
00:44:15,120 --> 00:44:18,880
Speaker 2: prefrontal cortex is where we make decisions, it's where we reason,

754
00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:23,520
Speaker 2: it's it's where we we you know, the logic comes from.

755
00:44:24,160 --> 00:44:26,399
Speaker 2: And what we then start doing is we start working

756
00:44:26,480 --> 00:44:29,520
Speaker 2: from the back of our brains, the amygdalah, and that's

757
00:44:29,640 --> 00:44:32,759
Speaker 2: just the more reactive feelings you know they call it

758
00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:36,520
Speaker 2: the lizard brain, right, yes, and and so yeah, when

759
00:44:36,560 --> 00:44:40,560
Speaker 2: you start, you literally are turning off your ability to reason.

760
00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:43,439
Speaker 2: So you're like, yeah, why would I not drive? Why

761
00:44:43,440 --> 00:44:46,279
Speaker 2: would I not do this? Why would I not you know, X, Y,

762
00:44:46,360 --> 00:44:48,799
Speaker 2: and Z. Well, because yeah, because your logic part is

763
00:44:48,840 --> 00:44:50,560
Speaker 2: turned off, right, yes.

764
00:44:50,840 --> 00:44:53,000
Speaker 1: And I want to tell you I took my highlighters

765
00:44:53,400 --> 00:44:55,840
Speaker 1: and I did that in your book when you stated

766
00:44:55,840 --> 00:44:58,440
Speaker 1: that I highlight, like, look what I was doing to myself.

767
00:44:58,600 --> 00:44:59,640
Speaker 2: Oh my word.

768
00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:03,239
Speaker 1: The science was great. But I want to tell you

769
00:45:03,280 --> 00:45:04,960
Speaker 1: one thing that I hope that you do bring up

770
00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:06,799
Speaker 1: a little bit. One thing that was fringing to me

771
00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:09,799
Speaker 1: and your book is when I was going through my

772
00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:12,719
Speaker 1: twelve step program, that was really the only solution. I know.

773
00:45:12,760 --> 00:45:14,759
Speaker 1: There are other programs and things down there. You don't

774
00:45:14,800 --> 00:45:17,440
Speaker 1: have to do a program, But you told me that

775
00:45:17,600 --> 00:45:22,040
Speaker 1: it is considered now a disorder. And the way that

776
00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:24,560
Speaker 1: doctors used to look at it, and the reason that

777
00:45:24,640 --> 00:45:26,560
Speaker 1: my pastor could tell me, no, you don't have those

778
00:45:26,600 --> 00:45:29,680
Speaker 1: problems is because there was this certain checklist back in

779
00:45:29,719 --> 00:45:33,640
Speaker 1: the day, and you either were or you weren't. Yep,

780
00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:37,480
Speaker 1: And now it is a disorder where getting back bactrum.

781
00:45:38,120 --> 00:45:41,640
Speaker 1: That's it. That's it, and it presents differently in a

782
00:45:41,680 --> 00:45:45,280
Speaker 1: lot of people. And that's why quantity doesn't matter as much.

783
00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:50,640
Speaker 1: You can still be an alcoholic and drink just a

784
00:45:50,680 --> 00:45:54,480
Speaker 1: little bit as much as it affects you. But your

785
00:45:54,520 --> 00:45:58,879
Speaker 1: book is a very good resource to educate people if

786
00:45:58,880 --> 00:46:01,160
Speaker 1: you think you drink too much. This is the best

787
00:46:01,160 --> 00:46:03,680
Speaker 1: book you guys. It really does help.

788
00:46:04,960 --> 00:46:07,279
Speaker 2: Well, thank you. I did not pay Carol to say that.

789
00:46:09,520 --> 00:46:13,640
Speaker 2: He did not, but yeah, you know that that It's funny.

790
00:46:13,680 --> 00:46:17,480
Speaker 2: I was talking to someone yesterday actually on the phone,

791
00:46:17,480 --> 00:46:22,799
Speaker 2: and she got to a point where she realized she

792
00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:27,680
Speaker 2: was just so convicted about her her wine drinking and

793
00:46:27,680 --> 00:46:32,080
Speaker 2: and you know, cocktails and whatnot. And and you know

794
00:46:32,120 --> 00:46:33,680
Speaker 2: what I say in the book is anything that is

795
00:46:33,680 --> 00:46:34,920
Speaker 2: misordered is disordered.

796
00:46:35,239 --> 00:46:35,799
Speaker 1: There you go.

797
00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:38,719
Speaker 2: But what she started to tell me is that she said,

798
00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:40,920
Speaker 2: you know, I was talking to a friend about this

799
00:46:41,400 --> 00:46:43,600
Speaker 2: and they're kind of one of the old hats from

800
00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:48,160
Speaker 2: from the AA crowd, and they basically started to tell

801
00:46:48,200 --> 00:46:51,960
Speaker 2: me that I didn't actually have a drinking problem, that

802
00:46:52,040 --> 00:46:55,200
Speaker 2: I wasn't, you know, an alcoholic, And she goes, I

803
00:46:55,239 --> 00:46:58,600
Speaker 2: actually agreed with him, I'm not an alcoholic in that

804
00:46:58,640 --> 00:47:02,120
Speaker 2: traditional sense that everyone thinks about when they hear the

805
00:47:02,160 --> 00:47:05,480
Speaker 2: word alcoholic, she goes. But if I got to a

806
00:47:05,520 --> 00:47:10,200
Speaker 2: point where I realized, my goodness, this is really controlling me,

807
00:47:10,440 --> 00:47:14,719
Speaker 2: and just because I didn't, like, shouldn't we celebrate the

808
00:47:14,760 --> 00:47:17,520
Speaker 2: fact that I've gotten to that point without having to

809
00:47:17,600 --> 00:47:22,040
Speaker 2: drink seventeen in one sitting and drive and get a dui.

810
00:47:22,680 --> 00:47:24,319
Speaker 2: And again, I think there are some people who are

811
00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:27,000
Speaker 2: so stuck in kind of this old thinking that are like, no,

812
00:47:27,640 --> 00:47:32,239
Speaker 2: you have improved your stripes, you know you. Oh, just

813
00:47:32,280 --> 00:47:34,680
Speaker 2: because you're coming to some realization that you don't want

814
00:47:34,680 --> 00:47:37,040
Speaker 2: to drink anymore, that's fine, great, but you're you're not

815
00:47:37,160 --> 00:47:38,799
Speaker 2: like one of me, And they like hold this as

816
00:47:38,840 --> 00:47:43,400
Speaker 2: a pride thing, and I'm like, really, really, let's celebrate that.

817
00:47:43,480 --> 00:47:46,480
Speaker 2: Someone says, you know what, I realized that it was

818
00:47:46,600 --> 00:47:49,640
Speaker 2: occupying an unhealthy place in my life and I've given

819
00:47:49,680 --> 00:47:52,279
Speaker 2: it up. And maybe that person is like, you know,

820
00:47:52,400 --> 00:47:54,279
Speaker 2: maybe I'll come back to it in five years or

821
00:47:54,320 --> 00:47:56,120
Speaker 2: a year or whatever, and maybe they'll try it again

822
00:47:56,160 --> 00:47:58,480
Speaker 2: and they'll realize, you know what, not going to do it.

823
00:47:58,960 --> 00:48:00,839
Speaker 2: I'm all on board with those people, right, And if

824
00:48:00,840 --> 00:48:03,160
Speaker 2: you're listening to this podcast and you're one of those people. Great,

825
00:48:03,200 --> 00:48:05,560
Speaker 2: there's a play, there's a seat for you at this table.

826
00:48:05,600 --> 00:48:08,000
Speaker 2: What I've realized and what Carol has realized, is you

827
00:48:08,040 --> 00:48:10,080
Speaker 2: only drink I can say no to is the first

828
00:48:10,080 --> 00:48:13,160
Speaker 2: one and so on the spectrum. Yeah, I'm way more

829
00:48:13,200 --> 00:48:15,600
Speaker 2: to the right than maybe you are. But I don't

830
00:48:15,680 --> 00:48:19,840
Speaker 2: use that as a badge of pride or I'm so

831
00:48:20,160 --> 00:48:24,400
Speaker 2: like I'm better than you by being worse than you,

832
00:48:24,400 --> 00:48:28,120
Speaker 2: you know, but like, man, let's celebrate those people. It

833
00:48:28,280 --> 00:48:33,040
Speaker 2: is not about quantity. Just as if you were a

834
00:48:33,120 --> 00:48:36,560
Speaker 2: spaghetti addict, and maybe there's some people who have to

835
00:48:36,600 --> 00:48:39,400
Speaker 2: have spaghetti every hour of every day, but if you

836
00:48:39,440 --> 00:48:41,640
Speaker 2: have to have spaghetti every day or if you have to,

837
00:48:41,920 --> 00:48:45,440
Speaker 2: you're just thinking about spaghetti constantly, and you're like, I

838
00:48:45,440 --> 00:48:48,160
Speaker 2: think I need to give up spaghetti. I'm gonna applaud you.

839
00:48:48,160 --> 00:48:54,720
Speaker 1: You s sghetti addicts out there, Well, said Carol.

840
00:48:54,800 --> 00:48:57,800
Speaker 2: If there's a if there's really just kind of one

841
00:48:58,000 --> 00:49:00,520
Speaker 2: piece of advice that you would give to people who

842
00:49:00,600 --> 00:49:02,440
Speaker 2: are listening to this, what would it be.

843
00:49:03,719 --> 00:49:06,600
Speaker 1: If you think that you have an issue, you probably do.

844
00:49:08,040 --> 00:49:10,200
Speaker 1: It's a matter of when are you going to catch it.

845
00:49:10,239 --> 00:49:13,879
Speaker 1: If alcohol is truly a progressive disease, as they say,

846
00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:19,160
Speaker 1: would you not want to catch it earlier more so

847
00:49:19,520 --> 00:49:24,920
Speaker 1: than later? Yeah, address it, deal with it, don't be

848
00:49:25,000 --> 00:49:29,239
Speaker 1: ashamed of it. God created you in his image. He

849
00:49:29,440 --> 00:49:32,520
Speaker 1: loves you. He loves you no matter what. We're all

850
00:49:32,560 --> 00:49:36,240
Speaker 1: going to have problems in one way or another. Mine

851
00:49:36,360 --> 00:49:39,920
Speaker 1: just happens to be this, But my life is beautiful

852
00:49:40,120 --> 00:49:43,160
Speaker 1: even with it because of what God taught me. I

853
00:49:43,360 --> 00:49:47,600
Speaker 1: have a freedom. It was hard earned, it required surrender,

854
00:49:48,360 --> 00:49:51,160
Speaker 1: but it was so worth it. So if there is

855
00:49:51,239 --> 00:49:55,279
Speaker 1: an issue, be curious about it.

856
00:49:56,440 --> 00:49:59,200
Speaker 2: Curiosity, I would say, that's one of the most important

857
00:49:59,200 --> 00:50:02,600
Speaker 2: things I learned in the wake of and during that

858
00:50:02,800 --> 00:50:05,240
Speaker 2: my really intense process of healing, which is still ongoing,

859
00:50:05,719 --> 00:50:11,080
Speaker 2: but is curiosity, you know. And to your point earlier, right,

860
00:50:11,120 --> 00:50:16,720
Speaker 2: it's like, Okay, you know, I feel like there's always

861
00:50:16,760 --> 00:50:19,920
Speaker 2: a layer to go deeper, and I'm still finding layers. Right,

862
00:50:19,960 --> 00:50:21,520
Speaker 2: So you said, hey, you know I didn't want to

863
00:50:21,560 --> 00:50:24,640
Speaker 2: feel those things. Okay, that's one layer, but also like

864
00:50:24,680 --> 00:50:26,960
Speaker 2: you went then even you continue to go deeper. It

865
00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:30,080
Speaker 2: was like, oh, well I needed control and I couldn't control,

866
00:50:30,320 --> 00:50:32,359
Speaker 2: and I wanted this and That's why I didn't want

867
00:50:32,360 --> 00:50:35,040
Speaker 2: to feel because and you went deeper, and you went deeper,

868
00:50:35,120 --> 00:50:38,640
Speaker 2: and I think my encouragement as well, just to piggyback

869
00:50:38,640 --> 00:50:41,600
Speaker 2: off of that, right is I think at the heart

870
00:50:41,640 --> 00:50:44,359
Speaker 2: of this is always something spiritual, right, because we are

871
00:50:44,440 --> 00:50:48,640
Speaker 2: spiritual beings, right, And so you know, we talked about

872
00:50:48,680 --> 00:50:52,239
Speaker 2: the idology, but it's like, yeah, you know, I want

873
00:50:52,239 --> 00:50:54,520
Speaker 2: to be the lord of my life, right, And again

874
00:50:54,600 --> 00:50:57,200
Speaker 2: that doesn't dismiss I think, and I talked about this

875
00:50:57,239 --> 00:51:00,520
Speaker 2: in the book, that this is both a spirit disease

876
00:51:00,520 --> 00:51:04,280
Speaker 2: and physical disease. At some point there was that aspect

877
00:51:04,520 --> 00:51:10,400
Speaker 2: of the physical draw that just innocence took over. But

878
00:51:10,560 --> 00:51:14,439
Speaker 2: yet at the heart, at the very heart of it,

879
00:51:14,880 --> 00:51:16,759
Speaker 2: even though it's all in my family and there's all

880
00:51:16,800 --> 00:51:21,880
Speaker 2: that stuff, right, is I wanted to escape. There was

881
00:51:22,040 --> 00:51:25,440
Speaker 2: sin that was done to me that taught me that

882
00:51:25,560 --> 00:51:28,239
Speaker 2: the best way to deal with that stuff is just

883
00:51:28,280 --> 00:51:32,480
Speaker 2: to escape, right, right. And so, like you, I just

884
00:51:32,520 --> 00:51:36,239
Speaker 2: want to encourage people go deeper, go deeper, Carol. If

885
00:51:36,280 --> 00:51:39,480
Speaker 2: people want to listen to your podcast or both of

886
00:51:39,520 --> 00:51:42,600
Speaker 2: them learn more about you, where can they go?

887
00:51:43,480 --> 00:51:47,400
Speaker 1: You can go. It's a salem product both of those

888
00:51:47,600 --> 00:51:49,920
Speaker 1: You can find it that way through their directory, or

889
00:51:50,040 --> 00:51:54,040
Speaker 1: it's Fates over Fear, or it's your Daily Bible Verse

890
00:51:54,360 --> 00:51:57,560
Speaker 1: and where on Apple. We're on all the things, Spotify,

891
00:51:57,760 --> 00:52:00,000
Speaker 1: you name it, and we'd love to see if you drop.

892
00:51:59,760 --> 00:52:03,760
Speaker 2: By now Salem. Can they find that through Life Audio

893
00:52:03,800 --> 00:52:04,200
Speaker 2: as well?

894
00:52:04,800 --> 00:52:06,520
Speaker 1: That's one and the same, really.

895
00:52:06,920 --> 00:52:10,120
Speaker 2: Because we are a Life Audio podcast as well, The

896
00:52:10,160 --> 00:52:11,640
Speaker 2: Confessions of a Christian Alcoholic.

897
00:52:12,120 --> 00:52:14,759
Speaker 1: I knew I liked you, so.

898
00:52:16,239 --> 00:52:19,000
Speaker 2: Go to Life Audio dot com, which I tell people

899
00:52:19,040 --> 00:52:21,000
Speaker 2: at the end of every program. But look at this,

900
00:52:21,480 --> 00:52:24,360
Speaker 2: and again, I swear I did not realize that Carol

901
00:52:24,440 --> 00:52:25,640
Speaker 2: was on the Life Audio Network.

902
00:52:26,520 --> 00:52:28,800
Speaker 1: Kindred Spirits. It keeps happening, Yeah.

903
00:52:28,719 --> 00:52:32,160
Speaker 2: Kindred Spirits. Carol, thank you so much for joining the

904
00:52:32,200 --> 00:52:35,279
Speaker 2: show today. It's been great to learn from someone who

905
00:52:35,360 --> 00:52:38,000
Speaker 2: has been doing this, you know a while, and yet

906
00:52:38,880 --> 00:52:41,120
Speaker 2: you know there are differences, but yet so many similarities.

907
00:52:41,160 --> 00:52:42,359
Speaker 2: So I appreciate you.

908
00:52:42,960 --> 00:52:44,840
Speaker 1: It was my pleasure. Thanks for having me.

909
00:52:46,880 --> 00:52:49,440
Speaker 2: I am so appreciative of Carol for coming on and

910
00:52:49,480 --> 00:52:52,560
Speaker 2: telling her story. I think it is so important and

911
00:52:52,600 --> 00:52:55,120
Speaker 2: I think what she really highlighted there at the end,

912
00:52:56,040 --> 00:52:59,759
Speaker 2: you know, highlighted it in the introduction, but really want

913
00:52:59,800 --> 00:53:02,640
Speaker 2: to you hone in on it is that your drinking

914
00:53:02,719 --> 00:53:05,920
Speaker 2: doesn't have to look a certain way for you to

915
00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:09,440
Speaker 2: reevaluate it. And you know, I do a lot of

916
00:53:10,280 --> 00:53:12,239
Speaker 2: have a lot of conversations and work with people who

917
00:53:12,280 --> 00:53:15,640
Speaker 2: are who are really at the on the way right

918
00:53:15,920 --> 00:53:18,120
Speaker 2: of the alcohol use disorder spectrum right and they need

919
00:53:18,160 --> 00:53:21,360
Speaker 2: to go to detox and that kind of thing. But

920
00:53:21,400 --> 00:53:24,680
Speaker 2: there's also a passion in me for people who are

921
00:53:25,400 --> 00:53:29,120
Speaker 2: on the way left right, because I just wish that

922
00:53:29,320 --> 00:53:33,880
Speaker 2: I would have taken seriously some of the things that

923
00:53:33,960 --> 00:53:36,720
Speaker 2: I was starting to realize early on before it became

924
00:53:36,760 --> 00:53:39,600
Speaker 2: an even bigger problem. And I have a heart for

925
00:53:39,680 --> 00:53:44,280
Speaker 2: people to realize that, like, you don't have to wait

926
00:53:44,360 --> 00:53:46,479
Speaker 2: until you get to a rock bottom moment. You don't

927
00:53:46,480 --> 00:53:49,239
Speaker 2: have to wait until you're arrested, you know, for a

928
00:53:49,320 --> 00:53:51,600
Speaker 2: dui in order to be like, oh, I guess that

929
00:53:51,719 --> 00:53:54,000
Speaker 2: is a problem. Like my prayer for you is that

930
00:53:54,000 --> 00:53:57,160
Speaker 2: if you're listening to this now, maybe you've listened to

931
00:53:57,320 --> 00:53:59,200
Speaker 2: several episodes or this is your first one, that you

932
00:53:59,200 --> 00:54:03,919
Speaker 2: will realize that it's not a sign of weakness, it's

933
00:54:04,000 --> 00:54:06,319
Speaker 2: not a cop out, it's not a what not to

934
00:54:06,360 --> 00:54:08,279
Speaker 2: be like. You know what I think I need to

935
00:54:08,280 --> 00:54:11,480
Speaker 2: reevaluate this and whatever that looks like, if that is

936
00:54:11,520 --> 00:54:15,320
Speaker 2: giving it up forever, but if that is just taking

937
00:54:16,080 --> 00:54:21,399
Speaker 2: a taking a month dry January to really assess what

938
00:54:21,440 --> 00:54:23,719
Speaker 2: this has become in your life, Like, I encourage you

939
00:54:23,800 --> 00:54:25,800
Speaker 2: to do that, and I encourage you pick up the book.

940
00:54:25,920 --> 00:54:27,600
Speaker 2: You know, I really didn't pay Carrol to say what

941
00:54:27,640 --> 00:54:30,440
Speaker 2: she said about the book, but I encourage you to

942
00:54:30,480 --> 00:54:32,480
Speaker 2: pick up the book. And if you want to do

943
00:54:32,640 --> 00:54:35,600
Speaker 2: dry January, go ahead and do it, and use the

944
00:54:35,640 --> 00:54:38,920
Speaker 2: book as a companion guide, like, don't do this alone.

945
00:54:39,120 --> 00:54:44,920
Speaker 2: So hopefully that was encouraging to you in this Christmas season,

946
00:54:44,960 --> 00:54:46,560
Speaker 2: because I think there are a lot of people who

947
00:54:47,000 --> 00:54:49,919
Speaker 2: go overboard and there are a lot of people who

948
00:54:49,960 --> 00:54:54,360
Speaker 2: then realize, oh dang, might need to rethink this. And

949
00:54:54,400 --> 00:54:56,480
Speaker 2: so if that's you, I just want you to know

950
00:54:56,719 --> 00:54:59,680
Speaker 2: that you are not alone. I said it already there

951
00:54:59,680 --> 00:55:01,200
Speaker 2: with when we realize we were both part of the

952
00:55:01,239 --> 00:55:03,719
Speaker 2: same podcast network. But check out live audio. You can

953
00:55:03,800 --> 00:55:07,480
Speaker 2: check out life audio dot com just to listen to

954
00:55:07,520 --> 00:55:12,800
Speaker 2: Carol's podcasts and other great podcasts. Have a merry Christmas season,

955
00:55:13,680 --> 00:55:16,719
Speaker 2: a happy New year. I am so thankful for all

956
00:55:16,800 --> 00:55:19,080
Speaker 2: of you. We will be back again next week for

957
00:55:19,160 --> 00:55:22,560
Speaker 2: another episode, and I will see you then