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Speaker 1: Good morning, faithful listeners. Welcome to the Bible Explained podcast.

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Speaker 1: We are in First Timothy chapter two, eight through fifteen.

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Speaker 1: Today we're going to finish out this chapter and talk

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Speaker 1: about the role of women in the church and how

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Speaker 1: they are to act appropriately in the church. We'll get

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Speaker 1: into it. So today's topic is one that I think

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Speaker 1: a lot of women don't quite understand and also really

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Speaker 1: struggle with because I was one of those women at

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Speaker 1: one point. I also struggled with some of the things

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Speaker 1: that Scripture tells women to do. But I found out

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Speaker 1: through my study and also through analyzing things that go

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Speaker 1: on in the church, you know, as an elder's wife.

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Speaker 1: I'm actually at the church quite a lot, and I

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Speaker 1: see why Paul gives the commands that he gives. So

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Speaker 1: let's read First Timothy chapter two eight through fifteen, reading

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Speaker 1: as usual from the web, but also kind of switching

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Speaker 1: to the CSB at some point in today's episode, but

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Speaker 1: grab the version of the Bible that you prefer this morning,

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Speaker 1: and also your cup of coffee or your cup of

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Speaker 1: tea this morning, I actually am drinking tea. I switch

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Speaker 1: things up today and I am drinking a blueberry tea

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Speaker 1: that is one of my favorites. But otherwise I prefer coffee,

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Speaker 1: as you all should as well. All right, grab your

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Speaker 1: hot beverage. Let's read this together. I desire therefore, that

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Speaker 1: the men in every place pray, lifting up holy hands

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Speaker 1: without anger and doubting, in the same way that women

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Speaker 1: also adorn themselves in decent clothing with modesty and propriety,

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Speaker 1: not with braided hair, gold pearls, or expensive clothing, but

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Speaker 1: with good works, which is appropriate for women professing godliness.

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Speaker 1: Let a woman learn in quietness and with full submission.

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Speaker 1: But I don't permit a woman to teach, nor to

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Speaker 1: exercise authority over a man, but to be in quietness.

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Speaker 1: For Adam was formed first, then Eve Adam wasn't deceived.

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Speaker 1: But the woman being deceived has fallen into disobedience. But

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Speaker 1: she will be saved through her child bearing if they

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Speaker 1: continue in faith, love, and holiness with sobriety. On Tuesday,

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Speaker 1: we talked about the role of all people in the church.

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Speaker 1: This was from verses one through seven, and Paul says

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Speaker 1: he desires that all people pray for their leaders and

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Speaker 1: for their politicians, and we discussed why we're supposed to

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Speaker 1: pray for those people but every single member of the

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Speaker 1: church was to pray for their leaders. And now in

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Speaker 1: verses eight through fourteen, Paul has instructions for the men

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Speaker 1: and also the women, and we talked about verse eight

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Speaker 1: on Tuesday as well. It says, I desire therefore that

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Speaker 1: the men in every place pray, lifting up holy hands

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Speaker 1: without anger and doubting. So that verse means that men

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Speaker 1: need to get more comfortable praying. Actually, there may have

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Speaker 1: been something you notice at your own church, if your

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Speaker 1: church ever holds prayer gatherings, you may have noticed if

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Speaker 1: you've gone, that the majority a lot of times are women,

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Speaker 1: and a lot of men don't necessarily want to go,

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Speaker 1: or even if they do go, they kind of just

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Speaker 1: went because their wife wanted them to, and they just

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Speaker 1: sort of sit silently, and a lot of the women

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Speaker 1: end up praying. That was actually the situation at my

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Speaker 1: church for a very long time up until just recently.

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Speaker 1: We had a prayer gathering like two weeks ago at

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Speaker 1: my church and the men outnumbered the women by one person.

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Speaker 1: So that was really cool. But you know, men are

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Speaker 1: just not as comfortable being vulnerable and praying in front

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Speaker 1: of people, which is why Paul commands the men to

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Speaker 1: do this. He says, this is how men are to

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Speaker 1: act appropriately at church. They are to lift up their

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Speaker 1: holy hands without anger and doubting while praying. And then

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Speaker 1: now we get into our portion for today, where Paul

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Speaker 1: is going to talk about how women should act appropriately

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Speaker 1: at church in the same way verse nine. Women also

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Speaker 1: must adorn themselves in decent clothing with modesty and propriety,

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Speaker 1: not with braided hair, gold pearls, or expensive clothing. So

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Speaker 1: I'm sure a lot of you ladies listening to this

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Speaker 1: are like, wait a second, Does this mean I have

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Speaker 1: to get rid of all of my nice clothes and

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Speaker 1: all of my nice jewelry and I can't wear my

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Speaker 1: hair in a braid when I go to church and

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Speaker 1: I have to just wear like overalls every single week. No,

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Speaker 1: of course not, that is not what this means. In

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Speaker 1: Paul's day, a lot of the early converts to Christianity

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Speaker 1: were women. You can see that in the Book of

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Speaker 1: Acts when Paul goes to the various locations. A lot

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Speaker 1: of the very first converts were women. So women probably

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Speaker 1: outnumbered the men in a lot of these churches. And

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Speaker 1: one of the things women would do back in these

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Speaker 1: days is they would braid their hair really extravagantly and

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Speaker 1: put like all of these ornaments in their hair, so

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Speaker 1: they'd be like pearls and gold and jewels and all

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Speaker 1: of these things. And it was almost like a fashion show.

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Speaker 1: When these women would go to church, they'd be like,

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Speaker 1: look at me, look at my outfit today, Look at

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Speaker 1: what I'm wearing. And this was especially common for the rich.

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Speaker 1: But this was not appropriate behavior at church because the

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Speaker 1: goal of going to church is to worship God, not

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Speaker 1: to have all eyes on you. Right, So Paul says

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Speaker 1: the women need to be appropriate at church by not

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Speaker 1: donning themselves with expensive clothing and braided hair and gold

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Speaker 1: and pearls, but donning themselves with good works, which is

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Speaker 1: appropriate for women professing godliness. So you can imagine, you know,

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Speaker 1: if you're in this really expensive, luxurious outfit, you're not

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Speaker 1: gonna want to do servant type of jobs. You're not

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Speaker 1: gonna want to do good works because you're gonna be

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Speaker 1: nervous about your clothes getting all messed up. I think

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Speaker 1: I've told this story on the podcast before, but it

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Speaker 1: cracks me up every single time I remember it. So,

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Speaker 1: my sister and my brother in law used to work

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Speaker 1: at this church, and they were on the staff of

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Speaker 1: the church. My brother in law was the associate pastor

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Speaker 1: and my sister was the secretary, and so they were

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Speaker 1: at the church like all the time because they worked

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Speaker 1: their full time. And they had this guest preacher come

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Speaker 1: who had these brand new, really expensive shoes on. So

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Speaker 1: my brother in law and my sister were like cleaning

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Speaker 1: up this spill that happened in I don't know, the

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Speaker 1: hallway or something, and this guest pastor walks by them

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Speaker 1: and sees my brother in law and my sister cleaning

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Speaker 1: this thing up, and he was like, oh, you know,

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Speaker 1: I would help you, but I don't really want to

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Speaker 1: get my brand new shoes dirty, and so he just

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Speaker 1: like steps over them and just keeps on walking. So

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Speaker 1: you can imagine, you know, like if these women in

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Speaker 1: Paul's day were wearing these really fancy outfits, they're probably

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Speaker 1: gonna be like, I don't want to get dirty. I

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Speaker 1: don't want to help because my clothes are expensive and

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Speaker 1: my hair is done so nicely, and this is going

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Speaker 1: to be just a hassle for me to actually do

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Speaker 1: these good works. And that's why Paul says dress for

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Speaker 1: the occasion dress in something that you're willing to serve in.

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Speaker 1: This doesn't mean you can't look good. In fact, you

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Speaker 1: could even argue that looking too disheveled or looking too

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Speaker 1: comfortable is also not appropriate, because once again, eyes are

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Speaker 1: going to be on you when you show up in

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Speaker 1: your pajama pants to a Sunday morning service when everybody

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Speaker 1: else is wearing like a pair of jeans or maybe

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Speaker 1: a dress. So you dress for the occasion and you

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Speaker 1: can put your own unique spin on it. You know,

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Speaker 1: I love to dress up for church in my own way.

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Speaker 1: I love to wear pretty clothes and hats to church

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Speaker 1: and jewelry. I love wearing all of these things. You

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Speaker 1: can have your own style while still going to church

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Speaker 1: and still be willing to help out without having all

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Speaker 1: eyes on you. And the other thing I should mention

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Speaker 1: is this also includes modesty, like in general, so if

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Speaker 1: your clothing is too revealing, that could be a huge

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Speaker 1: distraction to both the men and the women in the congregation.

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Speaker 1: Not to mention, it could also encourage lust, and that

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Speaker 1: is not what we as Christians are trying to do.

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Speaker 1: We are trying to encourage good things, not sinful things.

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Speaker 1: So we want to dress in a way that is

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Speaker 1: modest and appropriate. And you know a lot of women

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Speaker 1: get really really angry when they hear about this because

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Speaker 1: they're like, I can dress however I want, but I

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Speaker 1: would say that if your dress is affecting other people

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Speaker 1: in a negative way, as a Christian, you don't have

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Speaker 1: the right to wear whatever you want. Specifically, when it

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Speaker 1: comes to modesty, you should be dressing in a way

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Speaker 1: that encourages other people, whatever that might look like. And

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Speaker 1: then in verse eleven, the women also must learn in

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Speaker 1: quietness with full submission. So the word quietness throughout the years,

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Speaker 1: specifically the KJV version translated it as silent, and that

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Speaker 1: caused a lot of problems actually, because you know, so

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Speaker 1: church is actually believed that women couldn't say anything in

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Speaker 1: the church at all, Like she just needed to sit

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Speaker 1: there silently and do absolutely nothing. And I grew up

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Speaker 1: in a church very similar to that. Essentially, women could

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Speaker 1: not really do anything. They could play music, like up

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Speaker 1: on stage, they could play the piano. They can maybe

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Speaker 1: like sing a hymn or something, and they could teach

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Speaker 1: children's ministry. That was about all our church had for women,

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Speaker 1: which is really sad because women have a lot of

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Speaker 1: talents and a lot of abilities that should be utilized

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Speaker 1: in the church. So when we see the word quietness here,

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Speaker 1: this is not talking about complete silence, but actually it's

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Speaker 1: talking about more so tranquility and peace of mind. Because

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Speaker 1: if you go up to one Timothy two, verse two,

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Speaker 1: the same word quiet is translated as tranquil in this verse.

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Speaker 1: Here's what this says for kings and all who are

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Speaker 1: in high places, that we may lead a tranquil and

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Speaker 1: quiet life in all godliness and reverence. So tranquil is

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Speaker 1: the same word as quietness in verse eleven. So women

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Speaker 1: are to have this quiet tranquility when they are at church,

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Speaker 1: when they're learning. And so what does this mean, Well,

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Speaker 1: this could look like several things. Maybe not gossiping when

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Speaker 1: you're at church, maybe not being the devil's advocate and

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Speaker 1: you know, trying to correct your pastor about everything that

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Speaker 1: he says. Maybe giving respect to the people who are

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Speaker 1: preaching and not like you know, chattering in your friend's

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Speaker 1: ear the entire time or in your husband's ear, or

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Speaker 1: maybe actually forgiving somebody, you know, if somebody's hurt you,

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Speaker 1: maybe taking time to get rid of that anger and

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Speaker 1: resentment that's in your heart and actually finding peace when

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Speaker 1: you are at church. Learning in quietness and also with

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Speaker 1: full submission is what it says. And in order to

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Speaker 1: understand what full submission is, you got to read verse twelve.

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Speaker 1: I don't permit a woman to teach, nor exercise authority

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Speaker 1: over a man, but to be in quietness. For Adam

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Speaker 1: was formed first, then Eve, the woman is not supposed

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Speaker 1: to be the teaching authority of the church. That role

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Speaker 1: should be left up to the men. And thank God,

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Speaker 1: thank God, because I've known many pastors in my lifetime

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Speaker 1: and they have difficult jobs. You know, I never quite

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Speaker 1: understand when women say they want to be pastors, because

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Speaker 1: I'm like, do you want to just live in confrontation

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Speaker 1: your entire life? Because that is what being a pastor is.

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Speaker 1: You have NonStop confrontation. People coming to you with problems,

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Speaker 1: people coming to you with complaints and irritations. You have

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Speaker 1: to be the mediator between all of these little squabbles

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Speaker 1: and issues that are going on that you shouldn't even

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Speaker 1: be part of. This is what pastors have to deal

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Speaker 1: with on a day to day basis, constant complaints not

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Speaker 1: just about the church, but also about them. You know,

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Speaker 1: people come to the pastor, and they're just like, we

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Speaker 1: can't stand you. We hate what you're teaching about. Not

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Speaker 1: to mention other conflicts between like elders and the staff members.

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Speaker 1: You have to deal with all of that when you

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Speaker 1: are a pastor. And I know me, I would be

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Speaker 1: a terrible, terrible pastor because I would be unable to

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Speaker 1: deal with those things. I would go insane, I would break,

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Speaker 1: I would have a mental breakdown if I had to

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Speaker 1: deal with that amount of confrontation every single day. And

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Speaker 1: most women I know are very similar to that. There

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Speaker 1: are some women who are okay with engaging in confrontation,

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Speaker 1: but it drains them. There is not very many women

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Speaker 1: I know who love confrontation and it doesn't drain them.

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Speaker 1: That woman is few and far between. But the majority

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Speaker 1: of women I know hate confrontation and don't want to

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Speaker 1: deal with it. They don't like it because it is

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Speaker 1: stressful to them. Women were not designed the same way

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Speaker 1: that men were. You know, we talked about on Tuesday

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Speaker 1: how men are a little bit more prone to aggression

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Speaker 1: than women are just in general. And I gave the

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Speaker 1: example of actually my youth group where we'll play these

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Speaker 1: like really intense games, like I don't know, capture the

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Speaker 1: Flag or Ultimate Frisbee or Canadian dodgeball, which is like

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Speaker 1: my youth group's absolute most favorite game. And whenever the

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Speaker 1: boys are playing dodgeball, they get so hyped up, so

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Speaker 1: aggressive that like sometimes we have to yell at them.

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Speaker 1: We're just like, you need to chill out, you know.

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Speaker 1: And yet the girls are in the corner are like hovering,

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Speaker 1: just sort of waiting for the ball to come their way,

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Speaker 1: because girls are just naturally less aggressive physically, and girls

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Speaker 1: are less confrontational as well. Girls don't generally enjoy confrontation,

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Speaker 1: and that is what being a pastor looks like. That's

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Speaker 1: why Paul does not permit the woman to teach or

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Speaker 1: exercise authority over a man, so to be the teaching

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Speaker 1: authority of the church. Now, I don't know if this

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Speaker 1: means that women can't teach it all from the pulpit.

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Speaker 1: Part of me does think that if a pastor is

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Speaker 1: overseeing the lesson, that in some cases it is okay

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Speaker 1: for a woman to have like a teaching to the congregation.

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Speaker 1: And the only reason I say that is actually because

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Speaker 1: of One Corinthians fourteen Versus twenty six and twenty seven

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Speaker 1: and This is actually from the CSB version of the Bible.

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Speaker 1: It says, what then, brothers and sisters, whenever you come together,

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Speaker 1: each one has a hymn, a teaching, a revelation, a tongue,

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Speaker 1: or an interpretation. Everything is to be done for building up.

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Speaker 1: If anyone speaks in a tongue, there are only to

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Speaker 1: be two or at most three each in turn, and

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Speaker 1: let someone interpret. So that's how orderly worship is supposed

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Speaker 1: to go. And notice what Paul says at the beginning.

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Speaker 1: He says brothers and sisters, So he's addressing the entire

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Speaker 1: church when he gives this instruction, And he says, when

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Speaker 1: you come together, each one has a hymn, so like

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Speaker 1: a worship song or a worship him, a teaching, a revelation,

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Speaker 1: so like a prophecy, a tongue, or an interpretation. So

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Speaker 1: speaking in tongues and interpreting them. And personally, if Paul

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Speaker 1: says right here, addressing the entire church, that some of

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Speaker 1: them have teachings, I would guess that women are included

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Speaker 1: in that. Don't forget that a lot of times when

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Speaker 1: churches were done, they were done in people's homes in

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Speaker 1: a much smaller setting, almost more I would guess like

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Speaker 1: a modern day Bible study, not exactly but similar to

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Speaker 1: you know, church would have been a lot more informal

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Speaker 1: back in these days. And I don't know if you

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Speaker 1: guys have attended Bible studies, but you can definitely, if

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Speaker 1: you're a woman, reveals something that you learned through that

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Speaker 1: Bible study, or even teach something you learned to the

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Speaker 1: people of that Bible study. But you're not necessarily giving

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Speaker 1: a sermon. And so that's where I think that probably

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Speaker 1: sermons should be left up to the pastor. But I

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Speaker 1: guess there is some argument that could be made that

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Speaker 1: certain sermons could be done by women, but generally, in

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Speaker 1: order to not cause problems in the church, I'd say

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Speaker 1: the majority of sermons should be done by a male pastor.

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Speaker 1: Now some of you might be like, well, Jen, what

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Speaker 1: about your podcast, you know you teach men. Well, this

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Speaker 1: is talking specifically about the church, the authority in the church,

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Speaker 1: not in personal businesses or podcasts or Bible studies that

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Speaker 1: somebody wants to lead out of their homes that aren't

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Speaker 1: associated with the church. This is talking about the congregational meetings,

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Speaker 1: not about anything else. So yes, women can absolutely lead

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Speaker 1: things outside of the church. But there are things that

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Speaker 1: are supposed to be done correctly inside the church, and

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Speaker 1: that's talked about here in verses thirteen through fourteen. This

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Speaker 1: is why women are not supposed to have the same

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Speaker 1: amount of authority that men do. For Adam was formed first,

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Speaker 1: then Eve Adam wasn't deceived, but the woman being deceived

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Speaker 1: has fallen into disobedience. But she will be saved through

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Speaker 1: her child bearing if they continue in faith, love, holiness,

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Speaker 1: and with sobriety. So that's actually considered the hardest verse

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Speaker 1: in the entire Bible to understand by a lot of

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Speaker 1: people is this one where it says she will be

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Speaker 1: saved through child bearing. But first let's talk about verses

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Speaker 1: thirteen and fourteen, where it says, for Adam was formed first,

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Speaker 1: then Eve Adam wasn't deceived, but the woman being deceived

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Speaker 1: has fallen into disobedience. So in verse thirteen, the natural

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Speaker 1: order of things was the man was formed first, then

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Speaker 1: the woman was formed from the man. So God put

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Speaker 1: the headship, I suppose, on Adam, which is actually kind

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Speaker 1: of described in Genesis where God tells Adam all about

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Speaker 1: the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, but

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Speaker 1: he did not tell Eve that same thing. It was

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Speaker 1: actually Adam's responsibility as the husband, as the headship, to

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Speaker 1: tell Eve not to eat of that tree. But then,

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Speaker 1: of course, because Adam didn't do his responsibility, the woman

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Speaker 1: became deceived. She didn't know the full details about this tree,

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Speaker 1: and so she fell into disobedience. But that is why

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Speaker 1: women are not to be the authority over the church

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Speaker 1: over the man is because even from the very beginning,

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Speaker 1: you know, Paul is going back to the roots of humanity,

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Speaker 1: the man was formed first and then the woman was

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Speaker 1: formed after that. This doesn't mean that men are above women,

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Speaker 1: but it does mean that God put different roles on

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Speaker 1: the man and on the woman. It says specifically that

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Speaker 1: the woman was to be the helper of the man,

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Speaker 1: and the man was supposed to be the primary, you know,

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Speaker 1: workforce that was in the garden. So that's why the

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Speaker 1: church order when it comes to authority, is set up

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Speaker 1: the way it is. But going to verse fifteen, where

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Speaker 1: it says she will be saved through her child bearing

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Speaker 1: if they continue in faith, love and holiness with sobriety,

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Speaker 1: that's considered such a difficult verse to understand. The most

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Speaker 1: obvious answer that I think I have taught before on

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Speaker 1: the podcast is that if a woman believes in God

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Speaker 1: and just does church the way she's supposed to, God

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Speaker 1: will protect her through child bearing because, you know, child

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Speaker 1: bearing back in these days very very dangerous situation. You

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Speaker 1: know what's interesting where Christianity spread the most, which is

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Speaker 1: the Western countries, so did medical advancement in pretty much

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Speaker 1: every other advancement as well. In the Western world. Right now,

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Speaker 1: dying during childbirth is essentially not really heard of, like

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Speaker 1: it is not dangerous the way it used to be

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Speaker 1: back in Paul's day. So in a practical sense, this

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Speaker 1: actually did come true. Women no longer have high mortality

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Speaker 1: rates in Christian nations, they just don't because of medical advancements.

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Speaker 1: But then you might be like, well, what about women

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Speaker 1: you know in India who are saved who don't have

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Speaker 1: medical advancements, Like what if they die, you know, then

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Speaker 1: God isn't protecting them through their childbirth. And that's you know,

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Speaker 1: that's one of the reasons why this verse is kind

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Speaker 1: of hard to understand. But the best interpretation that most

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Speaker 1: people give is tied to verse fourteen. Adam wasn't deceived,

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Speaker 1: The woman was being deceived she has fallen into disobedience. So,

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Speaker 1: in other words, you got to look at the context

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Speaker 1: of all of this. Paul is talking about the woman's

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Speaker 1: original sin back in the Garden of Eden, where she

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Speaker 1: wanted to become like God and she was deceived by

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Speaker 1: the serpent. She chose to listen to what the serpent

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Speaker 1: had to say, she took that fruit, believed the serpent,

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Speaker 1: and ate it. You know, it throws some shade on

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Speaker 1: Adam right here, because it's like Adam wasn't deceived, he

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Speaker 1: just sinned willingly, which absolutely cracks me up. But the

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Speaker 1: woman was deceived and so she fell into disobedience. So

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Speaker 1: the woman made a grave mistake in the Garden of

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Speaker 1: Eden that basically spurred on the fall of man. That

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Speaker 1: actually does say that Adam was the one truly responsible

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Speaker 1: for the fall of man, you know, because he willingly sinned,

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Speaker 1: and through one man, sin came into the world. So

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Speaker 1: the woman actually did not cause the sin directly, but

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Speaker 1: the man did. However, the woman did spur the man

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Speaker 1: to eat of that fruit, and she sinned by eating

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Speaker 1: it herself and falling into disobedience. But women shouldn't be

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Speaker 1: blamed for that because verse fifteen a woman also brought

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Speaker 1: about the birth of the Messiah. So, yes, the woman

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Speaker 1: fell into sin, but because of her unique ability to

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Speaker 1: be able to give birth, God caused all people to

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Speaker 1: be saved through the child bearing, because the Messiah was

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Speaker 1: born into the earth. Now, of course Jesus himself did

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Speaker 1: the saving, but the woman played a part in this.

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Speaker 1: And this has talked about a little bit more in

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Speaker 1: one Corinthians eleven, verse eleven. Nevertheless, neither is the woman

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Speaker 1: independent of the man, nor the man independent of the

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Speaker 1: woman in the Lord. For as the woman came from man,

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Speaker 1: so a man also comes through a woman. But all

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Speaker 1: things are from God. So in other words, women are

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Speaker 1: not to be blamed for the fall of humanity, and

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Speaker 1: neither are the men. We are both equal under God.

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Speaker 1: We both have different roles. You know. Men are supposed

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Speaker 1: to be the head teachers of the church, and women

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Speaker 1: have their talents and their roles that they are to

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Speaker 1: play in the church. Men and women are equal, They

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Speaker 1: are not independent of each other. They are complimentary. And

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Speaker 1: so even though the first woman fell into disobedience, thousands

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Speaker 1: of years later another woman brought forth the Messiah, who

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Speaker 1: was going to save everybody from that disobedience and that sin.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much, faithful listeners, for tuning in to

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Speaker 1: First Timothy chapter two and finishing up this chapter with me.

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Speaker 1: If you have any questions about the roles of women

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Speaker 1: in the church, I'd be happy to answer them. So

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Speaker 1: contact me and let me know if you are curious

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Speaker 1: about any of these things, because I know that this

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Speaker 1: is kind of a hot button topic for women, and

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Speaker 1: you know, women sort of don't understand why they can't

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Speaker 1: be preachers and pastors. You know, I get all that.

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Speaker 1: I used to have those same questions myself. But anyway,

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Speaker 1: faithful listeners, I hope you enjoyed First Timothy Chapter two.

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Speaker 1: I will see all of you guys, not tomorrow unless

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Speaker 1: you're a member, but I'll see you all on Monday

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Speaker 1: for an episode from Second Chronicles. Now, if you would

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Speaker 1: like to become a member and gain access to the

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Speaker 1: Friday Podcast, because right now we are going through the

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Speaker 1: Book of Psalms, then go over to Kofi, which is

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Speaker 1: linked in the description of this episode, and click on

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Speaker 1: the tee tier and that will give you information as

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Speaker 1: to how to become a member and gain access to

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Speaker 1: the Friday Podcast. Happy listening, and God bless