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Speaker 1: Welcome to Timeless Wisdom with Dennis Prager. Here thousands of

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Speaker 1: hours of Dennis's lectures courses in classic radio programs. Had

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Speaker 1: to purchase Denniprager's Rational Bibles. Go to Dennisprager dot com.

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Speaker 2: All right, my friends, here is the way it goes.

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Speaker 3: I debate every cruise whether I should focus on micro

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Speaker 3: or macro, and it has been an ongoing debate. In fact,

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Speaker 3: some groups have started to have fights within them. People

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Speaker 3: listeners would punch each other over this of whether it

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Speaker 3: should be here.

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Speaker 2: Here are the arguments.

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Speaker 3: The micro argument is, come on, we're with you personally,

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Speaker 3: so be personal. We can hear your ideas and do

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Speaker 3: but we wouldn't be here. We're not masochists, so we

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Speaker 3: would you know, we would we hear your ideas on

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Speaker 3: the air.

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Speaker 2: So micro topics.

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Speaker 3: Then the other argument is, Dennis, this is a world

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Speaker 3: in crisis. We're going to spend all these days with

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Speaker 3: you and not talk about what's happening in the world.

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Speaker 2: What are you nuts?

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Speaker 3: And they're both very good arguments, so I sometimes I

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Speaker 3: have simply divided them, sometimes concentrated on one and.

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Speaker 2: Not the other.

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Speaker 3: But I generally find and alan agrees except in one

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Speaker 3: arena stereo that if I am passionate about a subject,

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Speaker 3: that's the best idea to talk about. However, I do

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Speaker 3: want you to know, and this is in front of Alan.

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Speaker 3: Alan will be with you the week. I'm here for

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Speaker 3: a week and I have to go back and do

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Speaker 3: a show. But Alan is taking the entire trip with

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Speaker 3: you while he is in Tahiti. I can do a

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Speaker 3: stereo show. There is nothing he can do about it.

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Speaker 3: He can't hear it, he can't do anything. He can

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Speaker 3: give me a dirty look like he is. Now, do

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Speaker 3: you have a comment, Alan.

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Speaker 4: Want to come back to a show?

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Speaker 2: All right, wait a minute, this is a fair thing.

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Speaker 3: I am willing to live with the results very good.

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Speaker 3: I want to vote. You have to vote. You have

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Speaker 3: to vote, and I will not be insulted. Nor will Allen. Well,

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Speaker 3: I won't.

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Speaker 2: I don't know about it.

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Speaker 3: If I did an hour on my passion for a

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Speaker 3: musical system in your house to bring you the joy

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Speaker 3: of music every day through great stereo components, would you

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Speaker 3: tune out?

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Speaker 2: Raise your hand?

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Speaker 3: Okay, that pretty much ends at If you my most

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Speaker 3: loyal listeners, who will go to the other side of

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Speaker 3: the world to be with me?

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Speaker 2: Will tune out?

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Speaker 3: Well, I mean that was only well, how many of

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Speaker 3: you wouldn't tune out? Raise your hands? Okay, how many

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Speaker 3: of you would actually like me to do it?

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Speaker 4: Yes?

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Speaker 3: Yes, one, two, three, four, five, one day, one day,

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Speaker 3: one hour.

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Speaker 2: Five?

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Speaker 3: Huh, I would print it out six six?

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Speaker 4: Could you con confine it with bulletry?

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Speaker 2: Well? Now that's today's talk is Maori poetry.

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Speaker 3: You did know that that I'm speaking on Maori poetry.

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Speaker 2: Maori?

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Speaker 3: That's that's the indigenous people of New Zealand. All right,

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Speaker 3: my friends, So let me tell you what I am

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Speaker 3: passionate about. And this is quite serious. Oh you know,

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Speaker 3: I am curious about something about you. How many of

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Speaker 3: you would consider yourselves actively religious?

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Speaker 2: Raise your hands? How many would not? That way? I'll

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Speaker 2: know how many their hands? The first time?

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Speaker 3: Oh so it seems like didn't it seem it's always

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Speaker 3: is disconcerting because now it's like fifty to fifty how

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Speaker 3: many of you?

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Speaker 2: Let's see?

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Speaker 3: Well, that's really what I wanted to know, because in

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Speaker 3: light of what I want to talk to you about,

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Speaker 3: and I hope that those of you not actively religious

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Speaker 3: will find this as interesting as the others. I think

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Speaker 3: you will let me tell you what's going on in

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Speaker 3: my life vis a vis a. Really things that have

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Speaker 3: become clearer to me in the last years, especially since.

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Speaker 2: Nine to eleven.

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Speaker 3: Nine to eleven has had a staggering impact on the

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Speaker 3: world obviously, and no less on my own thinking. It's

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Speaker 3: almost like all of my life till now has been

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Speaker 3: a preparation for the clarity that nine to eleven and

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Speaker 3: post nine to eleven brought. And you know where the

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Speaker 3: most not in the division with groups, not in the

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Speaker 3: division with you know, major parts of the of the

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Speaker 3: Islamic world that's obvious in the division between US and Europe.

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Speaker 3: That has been more clarifying to me than almost anything,

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Speaker 3: and it is a revelation to most Americans. I believe

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Speaker 3: the rift that exists between the United States and much

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Speaker 3: of the world for that matter, but especially Europe, that

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Speaker 3: being a Western democracy does not mean that you share

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Speaker 3: values beyond that people should be ablewed to vote for elections.

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Speaker 2: That's it.

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Speaker 3: And so that has been a very major theme in

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Speaker 3: my life is since nine to eleven. But what has

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Speaker 3: really become clear to me are two things. One the

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Speaker 3: uniqueness of America and uniqueness. I mean that literally it

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Speaker 3: is unique now you may say even those who hate

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Speaker 3: it will say it's unique.

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Speaker 2: That's not controversial.

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Speaker 3: Those who think it's unique, and those who love to

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Speaker 3: think it's unique, so.

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Speaker 2: That's not controversial.

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Speaker 3: And one specific element and I'm not going to talk

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Speaker 3: about the American part now, one specific element, and this

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Speaker 3: is going to be finally. I know it because I

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Speaker 3: have said so many times that's going to be my

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Speaker 3: next book. And the reason that I haven't had a

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Speaker 3: next book in I guess now five years, which is

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Speaker 3: very painful, is not that I don't write a lot.

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Speaker 3: I write a column every single week and even other

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Speaker 3: articles in addition, But it is that I have so

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Speaker 3: many books to write that I get paralyzed on which

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Speaker 3: one I will do first. I'll work I work on

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Speaker 3: male sexual Nature book, then I work on a religion book,

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Speaker 3: then I work on America book, and I work just

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Speaker 3: it's endless. But now it's clear to me, and in fact,

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Speaker 3: I'm writing it in part as my columns each week.

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Speaker 2: And that is the case for Judeo Christian.

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Speaker 3: Values this and as developed in America, they really have

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Speaker 3: not existed as such anywhere else. I always make the

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Speaker 3: point which when people hear they go they usually think, yeah,

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Speaker 3: that's right, but never thought about it. And that is

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Speaker 3: that there have been many Christian countries, there are many

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Speaker 3: secular countries, but only the United States has called itself

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Speaker 3: Judeo Christian.

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Speaker 2: That term is not brand new to America.

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Speaker 3: It was used on occasion in Europe, but it is

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Speaker 3: overwhelmingly American. And the Christians who founded America were Judeo

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Speaker 3: steeped Christians and feel that this way most of the

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Speaker 3: Christians in this country, in the United States, that it

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Speaker 3: is a Judeo steeped Christianity, steeped in the Hebrew Testament,

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Speaker 3: in the Hebrews. Identification with the Jews grafted onto the

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Speaker 3: tree as a very common term that Christians will use

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Speaker 3: to me in speaking about their.

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Speaker 2: Kinship with the Jews, and it is felt.

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Speaker 3: It is felt very deeply, of course by Evangelical Protestants.

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Speaker 3: It is also felt very many American Catholics.

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Speaker 2: It is also felt. And I know that many.

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Speaker 3: Christians do not consider them exactly Christian, but that's not

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Speaker 3: my arguments, and I'm outside of that.

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Speaker 2: Mormons feel very, very strongly.

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Speaker 3: Connected to the Jews, and so any variation on the

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Speaker 3: Christian theme in America has been very Judeo centered, but

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Speaker 3: I'm not going to speak to you with all of

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Speaker 3: that build up. I'm not going to speak to you

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Speaker 3: about the Judeo Christian value issue. I might and I

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Speaker 3: might not in the course of the crews together, because

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Speaker 3: I do want to vary the subjects, but I do

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Speaker 3: want to speak to you about a different theme, very

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Speaker 3: much related. I am steeped in both Jewish and Christian

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Speaker 3: life in America, and very few people have this opportunity.

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Speaker 3: I grew up an Orthodox Jew. I went to Yeshiva

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Speaker 3: till I was eighteen. I am to this day one

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Speaker 3: of the two or three most widely booked lecturers in

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Speaker 3: American Jewish life. I speak to about sixty Jewish communities

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Speaker 3: a year. That's an enormous number. And I've written two

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Speaker 3: books on Judaism. I'm a columnist in a major Jewish journal,

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Speaker 3: and i just spoke two weeks ago to the convention.

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Speaker 2: It was in Houston.

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Speaker 3: Of the Rabbinic Assembly, the gathering of the rabbis of

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Speaker 3: the Conservative movement of Judaism. There are three movements, basically Reform, Conservative,

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Speaker 3: and Orthodox. So I am very steeped in Jewish life,

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Speaker 3: but I'm also steeped with in Christian life, not as

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Speaker 3: a Christian. Obviously, it can't be both, although I don't

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Speaker 3: want to get into that argument about Messianic Jews and

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Speaker 3: so on. But one is either theologically at any rate,

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Speaker 3: of Jew or a Christian. But I am very involved

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Speaker 3: with Christians, very much. Salem Radio Network, which syndicates my

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Speaker 3: radio show, is Evangelical Christians.

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Speaker 2: It is the largest.

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Speaker 3: Owner and p of Christian radio in the world, I believe,

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Speaker 3: certainly in America. In every city that I am in,

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Speaker 3: and it's now about eighty plus, there is a Salem

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Speaker 3: Christian station or two, and a Salem A talk station

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Speaker 3: where I'm with Bill Bennett and usually Laura Ingram and

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Speaker 3: Michael Medved and Hugh Hewitt and so on. And so

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Speaker 3: I'm very involved in that way with Christians. I'm very

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Speaker 3: involved in speaking with too, learning from and I understand.

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Speaker 2: Christians I do. I get what they're.

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Speaker 3: About, and so I am really involved in both and

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Speaker 3: serve somewhat of it as a bridge. For many Christians,

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Speaker 3: I'm the first religious Jew that they've ever met, and

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Speaker 3: I mean not personally, I mean on radio even and

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Speaker 3: for many Jews, I am the first Christian they ever met.

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Speaker 2: That's a joke, that is a joke, that it's a

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Speaker 2: good joke, but it was a joke for many Jews.

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Speaker 3: I am the most pro Christian Jew that they hear,

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Speaker 3: and because I'm trusted at least in parts of Jewish life.

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Speaker 3: There are parts of Jewish life that are quite left

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Speaker 3: and are not fans of mine, but I'm trusted within

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Speaker 3: Jewish life, and I do speak very much to the

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Speaker 3: issue of Look, Christians are our best friends. That has

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Speaker 3: been the theme of most of my talks to Jewish

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Speaker 3: communities in the last three years since nine to eleven. Again,

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Speaker 3: that we Jews, our best friends are Christians, and so

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Speaker 3: I really do work as a liaison between the two.

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Speaker 3: But what I want to talk to you about is

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Speaker 3: a topic dear to me, and I have not talked

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Speaker 3: about this in a long time, and so I learned

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Speaker 3: and I know a lot more now than when I

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Speaker 3: last gave this talk many years ago. What is it

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Speaker 3: that Jews and Christians can learn from each other or

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Speaker 3: can teach each other either. I don't care which title

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Speaker 3: you use. And it should provoke thought, because again, this

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Speaker 3: amalgam of Judeo and Christian is the.

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Speaker 2: Most powerful in the world.

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Speaker 3: And if Jews and Christians do unite, which would be

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Speaker 3: a first in history. Since the beginning of Christianity, there's

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Speaker 3: been disunity.

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Speaker 2: To say the least.

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Speaker 3: But if Jews and Christians do unite, it will happen

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Speaker 3: in America, And it is happening already, it's beginning. I

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Speaker 3: think it is a force that cannot be stopped, and

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Speaker 3: it is a force for good. So it's good to

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Speaker 3: know what it is we have to teach each other.

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Speaker 3: Unless you believe that, well, we are so terrific, we

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Speaker 3: Jews are, we Christians, we have nothing to learn from

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Speaker 3: another group. But I don't think anybody in their heart

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Speaker 3: really believes that. Of course we have something to learn

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Speaker 3: from others, there's no question. And so here are some

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Speaker 3: thoughts on what Jews and Christians can learn or can

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Speaker 3: teach each other.

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Speaker 2: And I have no there's.

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Speaker 3: No order of importance, and it doesn't matter which team

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Speaker 3: I begin with, as it were, but here goes. I'll

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Speaker 3: begin with what I think that Christians can teach. Well,

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Speaker 3: most of you are Christians, so I'll begin with what

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Speaker 3: Jews can teach you, all right, You're probably more curious

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Speaker 3: in any event, We're always curious about the other. So

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Speaker 3: I will begin in that way and the list is equal.

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Speaker 3: The thing is so remarkable is that there is there

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Speaker 3: very deep issues that both can teach the other.

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Speaker 2: That's what's so good.

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Speaker 3: You know, these are not you know, well, Jews can

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Speaker 3: teach Christians how to enjoy bagel's cream, cheese and locks.

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Speaker 3: This is not what I'm talking about. You know, this

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Speaker 3: is very heavy stuff that we can teach each other.

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Speaker 3: So I want to make that clear. Anyway that we

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Speaker 3: have taught that's the sad part. Jews half taught everybody

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Speaker 3: how to enjoy bagel creamp. I mean, there is no

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Speaker 3: part of America without a bagel place right now.

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Speaker 2: You know, I'll never forget. I was in a famous Delhi. Well,

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Speaker 2: many of you are from Los Angeles.

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Speaker 3: I was in the Melody the Delhi at on Pico

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Speaker 3: and Westwood Juniors, of course, juniors where I spent a

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Speaker 3: good part of my earlier life in LA. And I

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Speaker 3: was watching a black waitress teaching a Japanese man what

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Speaker 3: cola was. I mean, you know, it's just there was

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Speaker 3: a great moment. Only in America can that happen. And

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Speaker 3: she was totally right. She pronounced it right. I mean

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Speaker 3: everything about and he was listening very carefully. Then she

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Speaker 3: explained Ruggala. I mean it was pretty this is pretty

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Speaker 3: funny stuff that's Yiddish, you know, So this is this

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Speaker 3: is America, okay. Number One, that something that I believe

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Speaker 3: Jews can teach Christians and Christians can learn from.

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Speaker 2: Jews is the importance of ritual.

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Speaker 3: It has one of the revelations that struck me in

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Speaker 3: my immersion in Christianity and Judaism doing religion on the line.

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Speaker 3: And many of you from La may recall that that's

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Speaker 3: how I began radio. Was for ten years every Sunday

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Speaker 3: night for two hours, I moderated a priest, minister, rabbi,

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Speaker 3: different ones each.

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Speaker 2: Week, and I learned.

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Speaker 3: If God intervenes in one's life, God intervened to have

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Speaker 3: me do that show what I learned about Christians then

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Speaker 3: and could not be learned at any seminary. I mean,

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Speaker 3: this was such a terrific immersion in understanding other religious

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Speaker 3: people and other religious attitudes. In any event, one of

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Speaker 3: the things that I marveled at was certainly among Protestants,

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Speaker 3: obviously less so among Catholics. They're the absence of ritual.

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Speaker 3: For example, I would say to a pastor. Pastor, if

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Speaker 3: I came to your house on a Sunday after church,

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Speaker 3: is there anything about the way you were behaving that

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Speaker 3: I would know that it was Sunday. And they would

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Speaker 3: all think and for a moment and then say, well, no,

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Speaker 3: not really, And I'd say so, like so basically Sunday

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Speaker 3: if I call it the Lord's Day, call it Sabbath,

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Speaker 3: call whatever you want, ends when church is out, and

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Speaker 3: you know, they would sheepishly say well, often they would say, well,

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Speaker 3: it's in my heart. Okay, Well that to Jewish ears

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Speaker 3: is a very strange term. It's in your heart. But

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Speaker 3: you're watching football, So I don't get that exactly. I'm

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Speaker 3: really thinking it's the Lord's Day. But my art is

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Speaker 3: with the Green Bay Packers. I mean, you know, I'm watching.

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Speaker 2: I don't get it.

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Speaker 3: But so so that was a very interesting revelation to me,

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Speaker 3: the absence of ritual religious ritual in much of Christian

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Speaker 3: life beyond church. It's all largely faith and heart based.

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Speaker 3: It's the inner, the inner feelings, the inner covenant, the

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Speaker 3: covenant on the heart.

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Speaker 2: Now not.

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Speaker 3: You know, and I understand its origins with a largely

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Speaker 3: a whole holding that theologically, one is not bound any

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Speaker 3: longer to the ritual that was needed for a time,

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Speaker 3: according to Paul, and that time is over with the

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Speaker 3: coming of Jesus and so on. Now Catholics have obviously

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Speaker 3: have more ritual and sacraments and so on, and so

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Speaker 3: I appreciate that fact. But nevertheless, not only do I

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Speaker 3: think religious people desperately need rituals, but I think secular

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Speaker 3: people need rituals. The United States is ritual challenged. That's

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Speaker 3: why we have a real problem conveying the essence of

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Speaker 3: America to the next generation. July fourth doesn't mean anything.

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Speaker 3: Memorial Day doesn't mean anything. All the rituals that many

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Speaker 3: of you grew up with or read about now are

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Speaker 3: almost gone. I do that every July fourth, other than

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Speaker 3: having a barbecue. What are you doing today? Do you

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Speaker 3: even put out the flag? Putting out the flag is

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Speaker 3: a ritual. Visiting a military cemetery, on a veteran cemetery

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Speaker 3: on Memorial Day is a ritual. But without rituals, you

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Speaker 3: don't have continuity. The secret of Jewish and it is

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Speaker 3: in remarkable things. You were survival to be kicked out

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Speaker 3: of your homeland and exist for two thousand years is

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Speaker 3: a tiny minority and survive.

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Speaker 2: The answer is ritual.

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Speaker 3: When Jews sit down at a passover satar and say,

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Speaker 3: we this is the Hebrew I'm translating it.

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Speaker 2: We were slaves in Egypt. We not they. We sitting here.

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Speaker 3: We just it happens to be our our forefathers and

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Speaker 3: ancestors generally. And it works so that, in fact, a

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Speaker 3: very famous statement from the Hagaddah, which is the passover

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Speaker 3: ritual book that is used on Passover, says, every person

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Speaker 3: is obligated to see himself.

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Speaker 2: As if he got out of Egypt.

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Speaker 3: You have to utterly identify with what happened, to the

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Speaker 3: point of we eat bitter herbs to induce tears, and

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Speaker 3: you can't get more ritual than that.

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Speaker 2: You eat bitter herbs at the satar so that you

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Speaker 2: start to cry.

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Speaker 3: In case you don't cry on your own, you will

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Speaker 3: be forced to cry with the bitter herbs. Now, that's

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Speaker 3: powerful ritual stuff, and ritual permeates Judaism. Now, personally, I

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Speaker 3: think there's too much. I am not an Orthodox Jew.

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Speaker 3: I am a religious and observant Jew, but I'm not Orthodox.

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Speaker 3: That's this whole separate world and to itself and I

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Speaker 3: think that you can weigh down a religious life and

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Speaker 3: the heart with too much ritual. Everything it has to

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Speaker 3: be in balance in life. You can overwhelm with ritual,

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Speaker 3: there's no question, but its absence is a cost, and

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Speaker 3: a lot of Christians feel it. That's why they many

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Speaker 3: churches like the Passover Satyr. They love the ritual. They

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Speaker 3: realize there's something rich to it. When I describe my

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Speaker 3: Sabbath on the radio, Christians email me, my God, that's so,

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Speaker 3: we'd like to do that on Sunday.

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Speaker 2: There's a those are great ideas, God, I wish we

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Speaker 2: did that. I wish we did that.

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Speaker 3: So ritual is an area of tremendous significance that I

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Speaker 3: think Christians can learn from Jews. Now I'm debating whether

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Speaker 3: to go down the list or to alternate.

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Speaker 2: Which do you want?

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Speaker 3: You want to feel better if I alternate, So I'll alternate,

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Speaker 3: lest you start thinking, what the hell do we have

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Speaker 3: to give the Jews?

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Speaker 1: You know, this episode of Timeless Wisdom will continue right

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Speaker 1: after this. Now back to more of Dennis Prager's Timeless Wisdom.

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Speaker 3: One thing that the Jews can learn from Christians and

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Speaker 3: I have obviously a list of three or four things.

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Speaker 3: For each is the converse of the ritual part, and

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Speaker 3: that is the centrality of God and faith that has

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Speaker 3: taken a real kick in the teeth in Jewish life.

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Speaker 3: Are much less God centered, generally speaking than a Christians.

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Speaker 2: And I'm talking now not secular Jews. That's obvious.

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Speaker 3: Secular Jews by definition are not going to be God centered.

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Speaker 3: I mean Jews active in reform, Conservative and Orthodox even life.

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Speaker 3: So deep is the commitment to ethnicity and to and

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Speaker 3: to observance that God got somehow lost in the picture.

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Speaker 3: You know what I spoke to the rabbis of the Conservative,

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Speaker 3: not the Reform, the Conservative movement, about how we have

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Speaker 3: lost God, how faith has just become a Christian word

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Speaker 3: and not a Jewish word. That's what I actually told

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Speaker 3: two hundred rabbis two weeks ago.

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Speaker 2: And these are all every rabbi.

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Speaker 3: They were sitting there wearing a yamalka. These are not

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Speaker 3: These are far far far from secular Jews. And I

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Speaker 3: spoke to them about the importance of the belief that

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Speaker 3: the Torah is divine. I said, by and large, there

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Speaker 3: were two groups of people that believe that the Torah

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Speaker 3: is divine, Orthodox Jews and Christians. Now that's fascinating. That's

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Speaker 3: just a fascinating thing. So this is a tremendous thing

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Speaker 3: to teach what has happened. See, Judaism is composed of

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Speaker 3: three things. This is normative, This is reform, conservative, Orthodox,

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Speaker 3: and that is God Torah Israel, that is the Jewish

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Speaker 3: if you will, trinity, God Torah Israel. Israel doesn't mean

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Speaker 3: the state, Israel means the people that those three things

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Speaker 3: make up Judaism. God Torah is Torah is observance in teaching,

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Speaker 3: and specifically the Torah itself.

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Speaker 2: The Five Books of Moses.

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Speaker 3: And the Torah as it were, observance and law and

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Speaker 3: Israel peoplehood have overwhelmed the God part in Jewish life.

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Speaker 3: Now that's its own lecture. What happened to God in

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Speaker 3: Jewish life?

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Speaker 2: Now? You'll say even the Orthodox?

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Speaker 3: And I will say to you that while the Orthodox

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Speaker 3: are more faith oriented than anybody else in Jewish life,

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Speaker 3: even for much, not all, by any means of Orthodoxy.

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Speaker 2: Is this true? I grew up Orthodox, and I can.

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Speaker 3: Tell you that in my Iseshiva, and you can't get

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Speaker 3: more Orthodox than Yeshiva. God was not a big subject.

403
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Speaker 3: Observance was the big subject. How do you keep kosher?

404
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Speaker 3: How do you build a booth on the holiday of

405
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Speaker 3: booths the tabernacles? I mean studying Talmudic law and endless.

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Speaker 3: See what happened is here to show you the juxtaposition

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Speaker 3: of Jews could teach Christians ritual and have to or

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Speaker 3: Christians need to learn it and Jews need to learn

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Speaker 3: the faith centeredness from how Christians have correctly.

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Speaker 2: Done it is.

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Speaker 3: What happened is people tend to become extreme in what

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Speaker 3: they're best at. It's just the way it is. It's

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Speaker 3: very hard to be to be moderate. It's the hardest

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Speaker 3: thing in life. And so the Christians went gung ho

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Speaker 3: on faith and the Jews went gung ho on observance.

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Speaker 3: And they both need faith and observance. Now not the same.

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Speaker 3: I don't expect and or want them to be the

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Speaker 3: same religions, but they're both necessary I think for a

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Speaker 3: rich religious life. All right, So now I'll alternate and

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Speaker 3: go to the second thing that Jews ought to learn

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Speaker 3: and can learn from Christians. Christians don't know, don't realize

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Speaker 3: this when I tell them this, but they have succeeded

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Speaker 3: America's Christians in doing something that is that has yet

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Speaker 3: not yet been achieved outside of Christianity. That is how

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Speaker 3: great your achievement is, and that is lead deeply religious

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Speaker 3: lives and in the world. At the same time, this

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Speaker 3: has not happened for Muslims, and it has not happened

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Speaker 3: for Jews. The more religious the Jew, the more religious

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Speaker 3: the Christian, the more they tend to retreat from the

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Speaker 3: world into religious enclaves, where where they stay within very

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Speaker 3: strict boundaries of separation from the world. Less they assimilate,

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Speaker 3: lest they water down the purity of their religious life.

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Speaker 3: How Christians have achieved this to stay religious and within

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Speaker 3: the world.

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Speaker 2: Now, not every Christian achieves this.

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Speaker 3: I'm not an idiot, and I'm not romanticizing a body

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Speaker 3: of people that numbers in so many millions.

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Speaker 2: But there are enough.

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Speaker 3: Of such Christians around to say that this has not

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Speaker 3: been duplicated elsewhere. In part it is because it is

441
00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:20,200
Speaker 3: so internalized the religiosity that laws and rituals don't bar

442
00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:23,080
Speaker 3: you from living in the world. That's the that's the

443
00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:27,040
Speaker 3: good side. But you could still have rituals and live

444
00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:29,840
Speaker 3: in the world. That's that's the best of combinations. But

445
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:33,240
Speaker 3: it shows you how subtle all these things are. But

446
00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:37,679
Speaker 3: this is an achievement that religious Christians have made, have

447
00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:42,120
Speaker 3: achieved that I stand quite honestly in awe of when

448
00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:47,159
Speaker 3: I meet people who will lead you know, lives. You know,

449
00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:50,600
Speaker 3: they even send their kids to public schools. No, no,

450
00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:53,280
Speaker 3: that's not a joke. That is a very amazing thing

451
00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:57,040
Speaker 3: to me, because almost no deeply religious Jew would send

452
00:27:57,040 --> 00:27:58,119
Speaker 3: his kid to a public school.

453
00:27:58,119 --> 00:27:59,280
Speaker 2: It almost never happens.

454
00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:03,120
Speaker 3: They are so afraid their child will assimilate or or not,

455
00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:07,880
Speaker 3: you know, not have enough immersion in Judaism and then

456
00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:10,359
Speaker 3: and then assimilate. Now you might argue, well, that's in

457
00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:12,720
Speaker 3: part because, after all, there are far more Christians than

458
00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:15,800
Speaker 3: Jews in America, so Christians are much more secure. But

459
00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:20,199
Speaker 3: I would argue that Christians, even with their minority like

460
00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:23,880
Speaker 3: in Israel, are still more capable, are still not afraid

461
00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:26,879
Speaker 3: of their children assimilating, and will still live in the

462
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:28,640
Speaker 3: real world and not hide in cocoons.

463
00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:30,600
Speaker 2: There are Christians who do hide in cocoons.

464
00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:34,399
Speaker 3: There are Christians who grow up very insular, never meeting

465
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:37,800
Speaker 3: a non Christian. That is absolutely correct, I am aware

466
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:41,920
Speaker 3: of that. Nevertheless, this is a huge lesson to be learned,

467
00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:44,800
Speaker 3: and it is one that it will be very, very

468
00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:50,959
Speaker 3: difficult for Jews to assimilate because Jewish law is separation oriented.

469
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:53,200
Speaker 2: It just is. It's just a fact.

470
00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:56,200
Speaker 3: It's very hard to live in the world if you

471
00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:58,600
Speaker 3: are not allowed to eat off the same dishes or

472
00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:02,320
Speaker 3: drink the same wine that non Jews are. So that's

473
00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:06,800
Speaker 3: a very complex question in Jewish life. Now, then what

474
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:12,720
Speaker 3: can Jews teach Christians go back to that list is

475
00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:18,120
Speaker 3: political involvement. Christians do live in the world, but they

476
00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:25,160
Speaker 3: visually but collectively have tended to ignore the world. Now

477
00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:27,960
Speaker 3: this is a mixed bag too. Christians became very involved.

478
00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:31,320
Speaker 3: After all, the anti slavery movement was led by Christians,

479
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:35,600
Speaker 3: and I am aware of that. Nevertheless, I'll give you

480
00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:40,600
Speaker 3: example so you see why my generalization is probably accurate. Nevertheless,

481
00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:44,720
Speaker 3: Christians tend their instinct is.

482
00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:47,680
Speaker 2: Not to bother that much with this world.

483
00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:52,360
Speaker 3: And in terms of activism, this current activism of the

484
00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:56,600
Speaker 3: religious right in America is brand new, and you can

485
00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:58,680
Speaker 3: thank the ACLU.

486
00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:00,440
Speaker 2: And the Democratic Party. I'm not kidding.

487
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:05,440
Speaker 3: I say that utterly objectively, a sleeping giant has been

488
00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:12,520
Speaker 3: awakened by the onslaught of anti Christian, anti religious, anti

489
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:15,480
Speaker 3: God based activity in the United States of America.

490
00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:18,680
Speaker 2: The instinct of the conservative American.

491
00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:22,920
Speaker 3: Christian is to is not to get involved religiously politically.

492
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:25,480
Speaker 2: It is to go to church.

493
00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:28,000
Speaker 3: It is just to go to the Bible class, to

494
00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:30,360
Speaker 3: raise your kids in a nice way, in your way,

495
00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:34,040
Speaker 3: and let God handle what God wants, you know, render

496
00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:37,040
Speaker 3: to Caesar want of Caesar, and render God what is God's.

497
00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:43,320
Speaker 3: But awakened by the ac LU, the entire secular bomb

498
00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:49,840
Speaker 3: war waged against God, waged against the Cross. Literally, Christians

499
00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:53,640
Speaker 3: have awakened. But still I'll give you the you know

500
00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:56,000
Speaker 3: the I said this on the radio just last week.

501
00:30:57,320 --> 00:31:00,320
Speaker 3: It is one of the ironies of life. But so

502
00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:02,920
Speaker 3: be it that I was the eye a religious Jew

503
00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:05,440
Speaker 3: led the fight to keep the Cross in the Los

504
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:13,360
Speaker 3: Angeles County Seal. Now, well, thank you, that's that's very

505
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:16,320
Speaker 3: kind of you. But I am you understand. Of course,

506
00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:19,000
Speaker 3: I'm telling it to you for quite non Dennis or

507
00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:25,080
Speaker 3: oriented reasons. Where were the Christians? And they did not

508
00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:28,800
Speaker 3: get the requisite number of signatures to get it on

509
00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:34,280
Speaker 3: a ballot because the churches just didn't care that much. Now, I,

510
00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:37,440
Speaker 3: as a Jew, am thinking I can't believe this. How

511
00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:41,560
Speaker 3: is that possible? You don't care whether it's something so critical,

512
00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:47,600
Speaker 3: whether Los Angeles County will erase the vestiges of the

513
00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:49,400
Speaker 3: Christian founding.

514
00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:51,640
Speaker 2: Of that county, that doesn't matter to you.

515
00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:55,520
Speaker 3: And you know people would send me letters, and Christians

516
00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:58,240
Speaker 3: would call up or send me letters. Look, it's our

517
00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:00,880
Speaker 3: belief that these are the things, these are in God's hands.

518
00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:03,479
Speaker 3: What does it mean in God's hands? And what did

519
00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:06,800
Speaker 3: he make people for? What a waste of time? If

520
00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:07,440
Speaker 3: everything is.

521
00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:10,880
Speaker 2: In God's hands, why fight polio?

522
00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:13,600
Speaker 3: I mean, I got to get what. I don't even

523
00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:16,000
Speaker 3: I frankly, maybe it's the jew in me. I don't

524
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:18,920
Speaker 3: understand that thinking. It's not a matter. If I don't,

525
00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:22,360
Speaker 3: I don't even understand. God will take care of the

526
00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:24,520
Speaker 3: cross on the La County Seal.

527
00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:25,920
Speaker 2: What will he do?

528
00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:29,320
Speaker 3: Will he send locusts into the board of supervisors?

529
00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:32,360
Speaker 2: What will he do? I don't understand the thinking.

530
00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:38,160
Speaker 3: I don't understand when Christians did not get involved in during.

531
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:38,560
Speaker 2: The Cold War.

532
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:42,680
Speaker 3: For Christians in the Soviet Union, Jews were crazed to

533
00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:46,680
Speaker 3: fight for Soviet jeury. Christians did nothing for Soviet Christians.

534
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:51,000
Speaker 3: Not every synagogue in America, Reformed Conservative, Orthodox had to

535
00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:55,600
Speaker 3: sign on the front save Soviet Jeury. Not one church

536
00:32:55,640 --> 00:33:00,200
Speaker 3: had to sign save Soviet Christians. And I even knew then,

537
00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:01,960
Speaker 3: and I was one of the leaders in the Soviet

538
00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:05,120
Speaker 3: Jeury movement, that I even said then, Christians have it

539
00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:06,160
Speaker 3: worse than Jews.

540
00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:07,000
Speaker 2: Even in Russia.

541
00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:12,000
Speaker 3: They were tortured to death for having a New Testament.

542
00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:17,240
Speaker 3: Jews were singularly persecuted, but they weren't being tortured to death,

543
00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:19,640
Speaker 3: if only because they didn't want to bother world jewelry,

544
00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:21,320
Speaker 3: which is tiny.

545
00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:23,560
Speaker 2: World Christendom is huge. A billion.

546
00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:27,360
Speaker 3: The Soviets couldn't care less what a billion Christians thought,

547
00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:31,800
Speaker 3: but did care what thirteen million Jews thought, because Jews

548
00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:38,959
Speaker 3: make noise, Christians don't. It's all very simple. It's all

549
00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:42,120
Speaker 3: you're killing Christians. That's very sad. Billy Graham went to

550
00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:46,280
Speaker 3: the Soviet Union. This was I'll never forget George Will's column.

551
00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:50,400
Speaker 3: George Will wrote a scathing indictment of the most popular

552
00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:55,200
Speaker 3: Christian in America, and forever, I'm sorry to say, forever

553
00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:58,640
Speaker 3: colored my view of a great man, Billy Graham. That

554
00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:02,400
Speaker 3: he went to the Soviet Union, and there were Christians

555
00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:08,279
Speaker 3: who came to his came to his talk. They and

556
00:34:08,319 --> 00:34:12,519
Speaker 3: they were kicked out of his talk and taken away

557
00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:16,160
Speaker 3: by Soviets secret police and in front of him, and

558
00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:20,519
Speaker 3: he said nothing. He gave each in Soviet Union and said,

559
00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:23,200
Speaker 3: you have to obey the authorities. That's the that's the

560
00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:28,319
Speaker 3: that's the Protestant Christian message. The Christian authorities, one has

561
00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:34,040
Speaker 3: to obey. I mean, that's just that's astonishing. But this

562
00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:38,080
Speaker 3: is this, this was an introduction to me from what

563
00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:42,200
Speaker 3: I had learned as during the Soviet Jeury struggle, that

564
00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:44,560
Speaker 3: Christians weren't fighting. You know that it is a jew

565
00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:48,600
Speaker 3: who leads the movement to liberate Sudanese Christians. It's a

566
00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:51,640
Speaker 3: Jewish guy. He's not even religious. It's a Jewish guy.

567
00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:53,919
Speaker 3: And the Christians admitted he's died. I forgot his name,

568
00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:55,239
Speaker 3: but I want, you know, I just want to give

569
00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:58,279
Speaker 3: him credit. Now, some Christians are active, but it was

570
00:34:58,320 --> 00:34:59,799
Speaker 3: it's a Jewish guy, you know.

571
00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:01,640
Speaker 2: Who led that. A Jewish guy who led the fight

572
00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:02,400
Speaker 2: for the cross.

573
00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:06,040
Speaker 3: Now there's something endearing about Christians not wanting to be

574
00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:09,520
Speaker 3: major activists. The world has enough activism, as it were,

575
00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:12,399
Speaker 3: but it doesn't have enough activism for good things. Most

576
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:15,200
Speaker 3: activism isn't for the values. That most of you and

577
00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:19,239
Speaker 3: I share. So that is a very important thing thing

578
00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:21,960
Speaker 3: that Christians could learn. I am stunned that the churches

579
00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:25,640
Speaker 3: of Los Angeles could not get enough signatories to keep

580
00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:29,160
Speaker 3: to put it on a ballot at least If you're

581
00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:31,120
Speaker 3: not going to fight for the cross.

582
00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:31,359
Speaker 2: Who will?

583
00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:36,080
Speaker 3: I mean, it's just is it not important? What is important?

584
00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:39,000
Speaker 2: Really? What becomes important? Ultimately?

585
00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:42,560
Speaker 3: Well, one can say, and people did call, Look, Dennis,

586
00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:45,400
Speaker 3: you know it's nice, it's important, But the most important

587
00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:47,320
Speaker 3: thing is to win people to Christ.

588
00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:49,200
Speaker 2: That's the Christian mission.

589
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:53,799
Speaker 3: So that's an interesting first of all, why does one

590
00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:57,120
Speaker 3: negate the other? You're so busy with souls that you

591
00:35:57,160 --> 00:36:00,000
Speaker 3: don't care about the bodies of Christians in the Soviet Union.

592
00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:04,520
Speaker 3: You're so busy, you know, teaching the gospel that but

593
00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:06,719
Speaker 3: doesn't the gospel mean and I have to care about

594
00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:07,680
Speaker 3: a guy tortured for.

595
00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:11,759
Speaker 2: Studying the New Testament? Doesn't Isn't that one of the

596
00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:12,800
Speaker 2: what's the upshot?

597
00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:16,680
Speaker 3: Once I'm saved? Don't I do something about it? Or

598
00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:18,000
Speaker 3: do I just save the next guy?

599
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:19,560
Speaker 2: Maybe?

600
00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:22,239
Speaker 3: And maybe that's the answer, So you know, and who

601
00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:25,160
Speaker 3: am I to say? But that is a very big

602
00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:30,880
Speaker 3: deal Gradually Christians are beginning to awaken, and it is

603
00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:34,680
Speaker 3: scaring the living daylights out of the secular left. But

604
00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:38,839
Speaker 3: it is far far from an awakening, as the Cross idea.

605
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:43,000
Speaker 2: Taught. Now on to the other side.

606
00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:45,640
Speaker 3: Now, by the way, I'm sure that as I say

607
00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:49,799
Speaker 3: each you're thinking, yeah, Wow, that's a big deal, and

608
00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:52,960
Speaker 3: then you think there's more. Yeah, there's even more. I'll

609
00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:55,160
Speaker 3: give you a thing that Christians can teach Jews that

610
00:36:55,239 --> 00:36:57,759
Speaker 3: I have learned. I mean when I say can, I've

611
00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:01,600
Speaker 3: learned these things from Christians. This is not theoretical. This

612
00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:06,240
Speaker 3: Jew has learned these things. Personal prayer. There is very little,

613
00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:12,160
Speaker 3: almost no personal prayer in Judaism. This is probably shocking

614
00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:14,839
Speaker 3: to many of you Christians to even know that, since

615
00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:16,680
Speaker 3: it's such a deep part of your.

616
00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:17,560
Speaker 2: Life, the prayer life.

617
00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:25,520
Speaker 3: But in uh, in Jewish life, prayer is collective number one.

618
00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:28,120
Speaker 3: It is collective, and it has already been written out.

619
00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:30,919
Speaker 3: We have a prayer book called the Sea Doer, and

620
00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:34,680
Speaker 3: we we read those prayers. It's already been written for us.

621
00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:36,880
Speaker 3: You can owe any Jew can talk to God anytime

622
00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:37,760
Speaker 3: he or she wants.

623
00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:40,480
Speaker 2: But it's just it's just not done.

624
00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:43,400
Speaker 3: When I gather with Christians and we sit down at

625
00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:45,600
Speaker 3: a table and you know, they they will they will

626
00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:49,000
Speaker 3: uh say, let us, you know, let us say a prayer,

627
00:37:49,160 --> 00:37:53,399
Speaker 3: and then they say things that are so powerful and

628
00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:58,000
Speaker 3: the most ineloquent Christian becomes the most eloquent person when

629
00:37:58,000 --> 00:37:59,040
Speaker 3: it comes to a prayer.

630
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:01,359
Speaker 2: And I am just blown away.

631
00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:03,920
Speaker 3: And I think that they're very powerful to invoke in

632
00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:06,640
Speaker 3: a very immediate sense God into that moment.

633
00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:09,360
Speaker 2: And this was all foreign to me. I know that

634
00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:11,880
Speaker 2: I know the Hebrew Prayer Book virtually by heart. I

635
00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:12,279
Speaker 2: mean it.

636
00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:15,439
Speaker 3: That's a lot of pages, and I know I would

637
00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:18,440
Speaker 3: say I know two thirds of it by heart, but

638
00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:21,800
Speaker 3: I didn't any of those words. They were written thousands

639
00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:25,080
Speaker 3: of years ago, and not all of them mean that

640
00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:25,680
Speaker 3: much to me.

641
00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:27,680
Speaker 2: Frankly, they mean something to me.

642
00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:30,960
Speaker 3: But being able to say something with others that is

643
00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:34,160
Speaker 3: very pertinent to the moment does mean a lot to me.

644
00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:36,560
Speaker 2: And I like that.

645
00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:40,239
Speaker 3: That's a very powerful thing that ought to be I

646
00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:44,760
Speaker 3: suspect reintroduced certainly Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. You know, certainly

647
00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:47,520
Speaker 3: earlier Jews said said their own prayers, didn't wait for

648
00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:54,840
Speaker 3: a prayer book to be written for them. Uh So

649
00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:57,359
Speaker 3: that was Okay, now we're back to what Jews can

650
00:38:57,400 --> 00:38:58,200
Speaker 3: teach Christians.

651
00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:02,640
Speaker 1: This episode of Timeless Wisdom will continue right after this.

652
00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:11,720
Speaker 1: Now back to more of Dennis Brager's timeless wisdom.

653
00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:13,239
Speaker 2: I have one more.

654
00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:17,279
Speaker 3: And this is not so this is what Jew but

655
00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:21,799
Speaker 3: it's really what Judaism can teach more than jew specifically,

656
00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:26,600
Speaker 3: because well, I'll explain why in a moment, and this

657
00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:32,439
Speaker 3: is tough to this is the toughest one to convey.

658
00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:35,439
Speaker 2: I'll do it by way of an anecdote.

659
00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:38,600
Speaker 3: When I had the priest, minister and rabbi on on

660
00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:43,600
Speaker 3: my show on radio Sunday nights, I would choose a

661
00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:48,040
Speaker 3: topic every week, and I never told them the topic

662
00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:50,560
Speaker 3: prior to their comings, so they'd learned it about fifteen

663
00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:53,359
Speaker 3: minutes before the show. By the way, you may not

664
00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:55,799
Speaker 3: know this, but there is a very deep Dennis the

665
00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:58,759
Speaker 3: Menace aspect to me, very deep.

666
00:39:58,800 --> 00:39:59,560
Speaker 2: You have no idea.

667
00:39:59,920 --> 00:40:05,200
Speaker 3: I love being a naughty boy, and I would do

668
00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:10,320
Speaker 3: something a little cruel every Sunday night. Fifteen minutes before

669
00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:13,399
Speaker 3: the show began. I would meet in what you call

670
00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:16,680
Speaker 3: the green room with the clergy and I'd say, gentlemen,

671
00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:21,040
Speaker 3: it's usually our women, but usually Jenn. Gentlemen, the topic

672
00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:25,000
Speaker 3: this week is a comparison of the teleological aspects of

673
00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:34,960
Speaker 3: Luke and Hubbakuk. I am lucky, I really am that

674
00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:38,279
Speaker 3: I never caused a heart attack in any of the

675
00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:43,480
Speaker 3: older clergy that showed up, because I really could say

676
00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:46,640
Speaker 3: anything with a straight face, and so there would be

677
00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:52,280
Speaker 3: panic in the faces of these poor sweet rabbis, priests

678
00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:56,320
Speaker 3: and ministers who showed up, and they'd go, well, Dennis,

679
00:40:56,320 --> 00:41:00,640
Speaker 3: but nobody told us in advance. Of course, nobody told

680
00:41:00,680 --> 00:41:03,000
Speaker 3: them it was a joke. It was a bad joke,

681
00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:06,000
Speaker 3: you know. But anyway, that's what I would do every side,

682
00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:12,120
Speaker 3: make up some utterly esoteric, nonsensical theological subject for the clergy. Now,

683
00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:15,520
Speaker 3: of course, a few guys caught on and they would

684
00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:18,000
Speaker 3: then play along and they'd go, that is that is

685
00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:21,880
Speaker 3: such a simple top But thank you, no, thank.

686
00:41:21,680 --> 00:41:22,399
Speaker 2: You so much.

687
00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:25,719
Speaker 3: We thought it would be, you know, something mesoteric. So

688
00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:27,759
Speaker 3: it was I had I had a ball doing that.

689
00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:29,839
Speaker 3: I got guys, don't worry about it, you know tonight.

690
00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:31,040
Speaker 2: Anyway, I did come up.

691
00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:34,560
Speaker 3: With I did about five hundred shows ten years so

692
00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:37,600
Speaker 3: I did almost five hundred shows, which is astonishing to me,

693
00:41:38,160 --> 00:41:40,560
Speaker 3: and I would say, I came up with four hundred topics.

694
00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:43,520
Speaker 3: Maybe one hundred were repeated. That's a lot of topics.

695
00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:45,640
Speaker 3: I wish I remembered then they would give me topics

696
00:41:45,640 --> 00:41:50,920
Speaker 3: for my shows now. But anyway, every so often I

697
00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:54,279
Speaker 3: would do something really big and I would do it.

698
00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:59,040
Speaker 3: I would choose the following topic a gentlemen or ladies

699
00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:02,799
Speaker 3: and gentlemen, According to your religion, as you understand it,

700
00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:08,640
Speaker 3: what is the greatest sin. It's a very interesting subject

701
00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:11,319
Speaker 3: for all of you to think about. What do you

702
00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:19,759
Speaker 3: think the greatest sin is? And uh, there was a

703
00:42:19,840 --> 00:42:25,880
Speaker 3: real Jewish Christian difference. By and large. Christians almost always

704
00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:31,200
Speaker 3: had a theological sin and Jews almost always had a

705
00:42:31,239 --> 00:42:35,480
Speaker 3: behavioral sin. For Christians it would be blaspheming the Holy

706
00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:38,520
Speaker 3: Spirit was a very common one or something like that.

707
00:42:39,640 --> 00:42:41,440
Speaker 2: For Jews it was you know.

708
00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:44,560
Speaker 3: Mass murder or torture or you know, or some very

709
00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:50,480
Speaker 3: specific evil on I'll give you another example of this

710
00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:56,080
Speaker 3: where in the I don't know if you remember those

711
00:42:56,239 --> 00:43:01,400
Speaker 3: kids who were charged with the with raping and beating

712
00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:05,080
Speaker 3: nearly to death the Central Park jogger, the woman who

713
00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:10,720
Speaker 3: in Manhattan when that happened, it was a horrific story

714
00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:19,440
Speaker 3: what they did to this or young woman, and the Cardinal,

715
00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:24,319
Speaker 3: a great man, the Cardinal of New York, went to

716
00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:30,440
Speaker 3: visit them to tell them that God loves them. And

717
00:43:30,560 --> 00:43:35,239
Speaker 3: I remember I lost my cool and I said, you know,

718
00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:36,520
Speaker 3: and this is what I said.

719
00:43:36,760 --> 00:43:40,320
Speaker 2: I said, you know, there are so many, so many.

720
00:43:40,239 --> 00:43:44,080
Speaker 3: Kind and decent and good Catholics in the New York

721
00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:48,359
Speaker 3: area who two minutes with the Cardinal would be the

722
00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:50,280
Speaker 3: greatest two minutes of their lives.

723
00:43:51,040 --> 00:43:52,399
Speaker 2: But they will never meet him.

724
00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:55,960
Speaker 3: But if you rape a woman and beat her to death,

725
00:43:56,160 --> 00:43:59,200
Speaker 3: near to death with bricks, then you get a visit

726
00:43:59,239 --> 00:44:03,640
Speaker 3: from the Cardinal. That was my bitter reaction. Now I

727
00:44:03,680 --> 00:44:06,319
Speaker 3: know all, believe me. I know all the defenses. I

728
00:44:06,360 --> 00:44:09,080
Speaker 3: assure you I did, because for three weeks in a

729
00:44:09,160 --> 00:44:11,239
Speaker 3: row I did the same subject that I had never

730
00:44:11,320 --> 00:44:14,720
Speaker 3: done that on that program. And I would go around

731
00:44:14,719 --> 00:44:19,480
Speaker 3: the room and I would say, Okay, Father, if you

732
00:44:19,719 --> 00:44:25,600
Speaker 3: had to visit those those accused rapists and beaters of

733
00:44:25,600 --> 00:44:29,840
Speaker 3: this woman, what would you say, Pastor to the Protestant,

734
00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:32,040
Speaker 3: what would you say, Rabbi to the Rabbi?

735
00:44:32,080 --> 00:44:32,879
Speaker 2: What would you say?

736
00:44:33,719 --> 00:44:37,880
Speaker 3: And it didn't matter, it didn't matter whether it was

737
00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:42,320
Speaker 3: a liberal or conservative Catholic priest, a liberal or conservative Protestant,

738
00:44:43,600 --> 00:44:46,520
Speaker 3: or what denomination the rabbi was from.

739
00:44:47,080 --> 00:44:47,799
Speaker 2: The priest and.

740
00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:51,520
Speaker 3: Minister agreed with the cardinal, this is our message to everybody,

741
00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:54,200
Speaker 3: no matter what they do, God loves you. And the

742
00:44:54,280 --> 00:44:58,160
Speaker 3: rabbi would say, well I would if I First, I

743
00:44:58,160 --> 00:45:00,040
Speaker 3: don't want to visit that. He said, I want to

744
00:45:00,160 --> 00:45:03,319
Speaker 3: visit the family of the girl. So number one, I

745
00:45:03,320 --> 00:45:05,120
Speaker 3: don't want to visit him. But Dennis, you said if

746
00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:07,200
Speaker 3: I had to visit him, Well, if I had to

747
00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:10,000
Speaker 3: visit them, I would say, you guys did such evil.

748
00:45:10,239 --> 00:45:15,560
Speaker 3: You are probably really screwed in God's eyes. And you know,

749
00:45:15,680 --> 00:45:17,760
Speaker 3: I don't really know. I mean, I hope you repent,

750
00:45:17,920 --> 00:45:20,080
Speaker 3: but you know, I don't want to be here. But

751
00:45:20,120 --> 00:45:25,440
Speaker 3: Dennis sent me okay, And the same thing happened. The

752
00:45:25,480 --> 00:45:27,920
Speaker 3: second week, the priest and the minister agreed with the cardinal.

753
00:45:28,040 --> 00:45:30,640
Speaker 3: The rabbi said, I don't want to go. Then the

754
00:45:30,680 --> 00:45:32,560
Speaker 3: third week I did it again. I wanted to see

755
00:45:32,600 --> 00:45:36,520
Speaker 3: I was learning, I was learning about Christian Jewish differences.

756
00:45:37,320 --> 00:45:39,040
Speaker 3: So the third week I did it again. But the

757
00:45:39,080 --> 00:45:43,120
Speaker 3: third week the rabbi schedule. Remember these were different clergy

758
00:45:43,120 --> 00:45:47,240
Speaker 3: each week the rabbi schedule was the most flower power

759
00:45:47,360 --> 00:45:48,560
Speaker 3: rabbi I ever met.

760
00:45:49,080 --> 00:45:52,879
Speaker 2: This is a rabbi who lived the language of sixties love.

761
00:45:53,760 --> 00:45:57,480
Speaker 2: I love you, you love me, God loves you. I love flowers,

762
00:45:57,560 --> 00:46:02,240
Speaker 2: flowers love me, and so on. And I was certain.

763
00:46:02,520 --> 00:46:05,280
Speaker 3: I was certain when I saw him, my heart sank

764
00:46:05,800 --> 00:46:10,880
Speaker 3: because I was certain that whatever I assumed could be

765
00:46:10,960 --> 00:46:14,000
Speaker 3: the generalization was going to be shattered this week. That

766
00:46:14,160 --> 00:46:16,399
Speaker 3: he would tell those kids too if he had to go.

767
00:46:17,040 --> 00:46:20,560
Speaker 3: But God loves you. But look, I promised I would

768
00:46:20,600 --> 00:46:23,920
Speaker 3: do it three weeks running. So here it goes. So

769
00:46:24,080 --> 00:46:27,280
Speaker 3: I go to the priest, I say what the cardinal said?

770
00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:30,000
Speaker 3: The Protestant, well, I would more or less say what

771
00:46:30,040 --> 00:46:33,279
Speaker 3: the cardinal said too, God loves you. And now my

772
00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:36,480
Speaker 3: heart beating because all of my generalization is going to

773
00:46:36,520 --> 00:46:36,960
Speaker 3: be shot.

774
00:46:37,440 --> 00:46:39,920
Speaker 2: All right, Rabbi, what would you say?

775
00:46:40,200 --> 00:46:45,080
Speaker 3: And he said, well, Dennis, if I had to meet them,

776
00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:48,960
Speaker 3: I would tell them that they are real assholes.

777
00:46:56,640 --> 00:46:59,680
Speaker 2: That may have been the greatest moment of my life.

778
00:46:59,760 --> 00:47:02,279
Speaker 2: I'm not sure I was.

779
00:47:02,640 --> 00:47:08,319
Speaker 3: I had inner ecstasy. This was this was a very

780
00:47:08,360 --> 00:47:10,319
Speaker 3: This was a it was a major It was a

781
00:47:10,320 --> 00:47:18,360
Speaker 3: major moment. Now The point here is that in Jewish

782
00:47:18,480 --> 00:47:25,160
Speaker 3: life and in Christian life there are different emphasies. That's understandable,

783
00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:32,719
Speaker 3: and that sin is the greatest sin. Certain sins are

784
00:47:32,840 --> 00:47:36,760
Speaker 3: greater sins for Christians and certain are greater for Jews.

785
00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:44,440
Speaker 3: And remember this is theological. This doesn't mean that Christians

786
00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:47,839
Speaker 3: do more of the bad. It's not true at all.

787
00:47:48,600 --> 00:47:51,040
Speaker 3: People and their theologies are not the same. This is

788
00:47:51,040 --> 00:47:54,160
Speaker 3: something I have learned over and over. I never judge

789
00:47:54,160 --> 00:47:57,279
Speaker 3: people by their theologies anyway, how could I? After all,

790
00:47:57,320 --> 00:47:59,600
Speaker 3: many Christians believe that I can't be saved, and yet

791
00:47:59,600 --> 00:48:02,719
Speaker 3: I adore them, So I don't judge them by their theology.

792
00:48:02,760 --> 00:48:05,319
Speaker 3: I judge them by their behavior, which is wonderful to

793
00:48:05,440 --> 00:48:10,760
Speaker 3: me as a person and as a Jew. Okay, Nevertheless,

794
00:48:11,920 --> 00:48:17,600
Speaker 3: whether it has ramifications in practice or not, this is

795
00:48:17,640 --> 00:48:18,440
Speaker 3: a big difference.

796
00:48:19,560 --> 00:48:21,040
Speaker 2: Whenever I speak of sin.

797
00:48:21,480 --> 00:48:26,600
Speaker 3: Christians think in terms of theology and sexual sin. Jews

798
00:48:26,640 --> 00:48:30,560
Speaker 3: think in terms of evil, and they're not the same

799
00:48:31,040 --> 00:48:34,239
Speaker 3: evil being torture, murder, rape, you know, the simple, the

800
00:48:34,320 --> 00:48:35,080
Speaker 3: simple evils.

801
00:48:35,120 --> 00:48:35,880
Speaker 2: If you will.

802
00:48:36,680 --> 00:48:42,640
Speaker 3: That that is a difference the emphasies in what the

803
00:48:42,760 --> 00:48:46,240
Speaker 3: sin is. I'll give you another example. This was always

804
00:48:46,239 --> 00:48:50,080
Speaker 3: my favorite example. On a few occasions, the subject for

805
00:48:50,160 --> 00:48:53,440
Speaker 3: the Evening on Religion on the line was lust.

806
00:48:54,920 --> 00:48:57,120
Speaker 2: What does your religion say about lust?

807
00:48:58,160 --> 00:49:01,200
Speaker 3: The Catholic and the Protestant were in agreement, this is

808
00:49:01,280 --> 00:49:04,800
Speaker 3: a serious sin, citing needless to say Jesus that whoever

809
00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:08,560
Speaker 3: a man lust for another woman, he has committed adultery

810
00:49:08,880 --> 00:49:12,239
Speaker 3: with his heart, to which.

811
00:49:13,480 --> 00:49:14,960
Speaker 2: Impish denis the menace.

812
00:49:14,960 --> 00:49:18,040
Speaker 3: Would often respond that from a Jewish perspective, you can

813
00:49:18,080 --> 00:49:20,319
Speaker 3: only commit a delterine with one organ, and it isn't

814
00:49:20,320 --> 00:49:27,000
Speaker 3: the heart.

815
00:49:23,920 --> 00:49:24,160
Speaker 2: So.

816
00:49:25,960 --> 00:49:31,920
Speaker 3: Just leave that, leave that where it is. But this

817
00:49:32,120 --> 00:49:37,959
Speaker 3: was what blew my mind. The Christians were very, very

818
00:49:38,000 --> 00:49:42,040
Speaker 3: concerned with the sin of lust, and under torture, I

819
00:49:42,080 --> 00:49:44,960
Speaker 3: could not get a rabbi to get exercised about it,

820
00:49:45,520 --> 00:49:50,919
Speaker 3: even orthodox rabbis, Orthodox, Conservative or Reform. I would say

821
00:49:50,920 --> 00:49:53,920
Speaker 3: to them, did you ever ever once give a sermon

822
00:49:53,960 --> 00:49:59,480
Speaker 3: on lust? And they looked at me like I asked them.

823
00:49:58,280 --> 00:50:02,680
Speaker 2: Some obscure question out of nowhere. Of course not. It

824
00:50:02,719 --> 00:50:03,719
Speaker 2: doesn't register.

825
00:50:05,040 --> 00:50:07,520
Speaker 3: And this is shocking to Christians, for whom lust is

826
00:50:07,560 --> 00:50:11,040
Speaker 3: a serious subject. And I say it, you know, obviously, respectfully.

827
00:50:11,960 --> 00:50:16,600
Speaker 3: In fact, one rabbi went, lusts must and that.

828
00:50:16,760 --> 00:50:20,200
Speaker 2: Was the end of that, yet didn't even add anything.

829
00:50:21,960 --> 00:50:24,719
Speaker 3: Now, one of the things that I learned was this

830
00:50:24,840 --> 00:50:27,840
Speaker 3: is really this will really interest you because because you

831
00:50:27,880 --> 00:50:31,200
Speaker 3: know this is gives people love mirrors onto themselves from

832
00:50:31,480 --> 00:50:35,319
Speaker 3: sympathetic outsiders. One of the things that I that that

833
00:50:35,400 --> 00:50:37,919
Speaker 3: religion on the line and immersion with Christians has done

834
00:50:37,960 --> 00:50:42,080
Speaker 3: to me is I grew up having Christian envy, which

835
00:50:42,120 --> 00:50:45,160
Speaker 3: was analogous to penis envy that that Freud said women

836
00:50:45,239 --> 00:50:48,160
Speaker 3: would grow up with, and and what what, Whether you

837
00:50:48,200 --> 00:50:50,239
Speaker 3: agree with it or not, I'm just saying it's analogous

838
00:50:50,480 --> 00:50:54,440
Speaker 3: in that it's just so subliminal and what was it?

839
00:50:54,640 --> 00:50:58,040
Speaker 2: My God? That they have it easy. They can do

840
00:50:58,120 --> 00:51:01,840
Speaker 2: anything they want. They believe in Jesus. They're say me,

841
00:51:02,800 --> 00:51:04,080
Speaker 2: I got all these laws.

842
00:51:04,160 --> 00:51:07,040
Speaker 3: I can't drive on Shavists and I can't I can't

843
00:51:07,120 --> 00:51:08,160
Speaker 3: write on Shavis.

844
00:51:08,239 --> 00:51:09,520
Speaker 2: I have the past on young.

845
00:51:09,400 --> 00:51:12,880
Speaker 3: Kipper and and and the you know, laws were endless.

846
00:51:12,960 --> 00:51:16,200
Speaker 3: You have no idea, they are endless. And I thought,

847
00:51:16,200 --> 00:51:18,480
Speaker 3: what a deal, What a deal?

848
00:51:18,680 --> 00:51:18,839
Speaker 2: God?

849
00:51:19,160 --> 00:51:21,840
Speaker 3: It great to be Christian? Why did I get stuck

850
00:51:22,200 --> 00:51:25,319
Speaker 3: with this stuff? That's what I thought as a kid.

851
00:51:27,360 --> 00:51:31,800
Speaker 3: I lost all Christian envy speaking to Christians on religion

852
00:51:31,880 --> 00:51:34,239
Speaker 3: on the line, and I thought, oh my God, I

853
00:51:34,280 --> 00:51:37,719
Speaker 3: may have endless laws that I have to observe, but

854
00:51:37,800 --> 00:51:41,360
Speaker 3: you have far more guilt than I'll ever have. You,

855
00:51:41,680 --> 00:51:45,280
Speaker 3: poor things. I can't believe it. No Jew walks around

856
00:51:45,320 --> 00:51:49,600
Speaker 3: guilty over lusting. It doesn't even register on his sin meter.

857
00:51:53,560 --> 00:51:56,920
Speaker 3: If he commits adultery, he sinned, But if he didn't,

858
00:51:56,960 --> 00:51:59,840
Speaker 3: he didn't sin. Now, it's not a mitzvah to lust.

859
00:51:59,840 --> 00:52:02,480
Speaker 3: Don't get me wrong. I mean, we're not taught in Yeshiva.

860
00:52:02,600 --> 00:52:05,120
Speaker 3: Thou shalt lust. That is not taught.

861
00:52:05,280 --> 00:52:07,520
Speaker 2: It's just it's part of life.

862
00:52:07,520 --> 00:52:10,319
Speaker 3: It happens. Have a nice day. Now, let's talk about

863
00:52:10,360 --> 00:52:20,600
Speaker 3: what really matters. How many hours separate eating meat from milk? Okay,

864
00:52:21,080 --> 00:52:25,200
Speaker 3: that's that's you see, isn't it fascinating? The mindsets are

865
00:52:25,280 --> 00:52:29,560
Speaker 3: so different. And so I lost all envy, Oh my god,

866
00:52:29,640 --> 00:52:32,160
Speaker 3: because I mean, I if that were a big sin,

867
00:52:32,840 --> 00:52:36,000
Speaker 3: I'm doomed. I mean, I have no chance, you know.

868
00:52:36,480 --> 00:52:38,440
Speaker 3: And and that's what a Jew would think, you know,

869
00:52:38,640 --> 00:52:40,920
Speaker 3: whereas I have no chance. I mean, of course, it's

870
00:52:41,000 --> 00:52:43,000
Speaker 3: just part of life. That's the way God made us.

871
00:52:43,920 --> 00:52:47,040
Speaker 3: And and yet for you know, many Christians. I read,

872
00:52:47,080 --> 00:52:49,719
Speaker 3: I read the stuff I talk to Christian men in particular,

873
00:52:50,360 --> 00:52:54,320
Speaker 3: h it is it is an ongoing battle with major

874
00:52:54,400 --> 00:52:59,840
Speaker 3: sin in their lives, and it takes huge amounts of energy.

875
00:53:00,400 --> 00:53:01,279
Speaker 3: And I salute them.

876
00:53:01,280 --> 00:53:03,319
Speaker 2: I mean, if they can reach that state, it's it's

877
00:53:03,400 --> 00:53:06,719
Speaker 2: it's it's quite. It's quite. Uh.

878
00:53:06,800 --> 00:53:11,719
Speaker 3: I assume it is quite an achievement. But all I'm

879
00:53:11,760 --> 00:53:16,120
Speaker 3: saying is it doesn't. The sin definition is different in

880
00:53:16,320 --> 00:53:21,600
Speaker 3: the two and part of the reasons, see, they're all interlinked.

881
00:53:21,680 --> 00:53:24,840
Speaker 3: Part of the reason that Christians aren't fighting for tortured

882
00:53:24,920 --> 00:53:27,720
Speaker 3: Christians in in Soviet Union.

883
00:53:27,760 --> 00:53:31,360
Speaker 2: I mean that this is the past is because their preoccupation.

884
00:53:31,120 --> 00:53:35,400
Speaker 3: Wasn't with evil, it was with other things, sins of

885
00:53:35,600 --> 00:53:39,359
Speaker 3: non belief sins of whatever the sin might be. And

886
00:53:39,440 --> 00:53:45,279
Speaker 3: so these all do interrelate with one another. So that

887
00:53:45,480 --> 00:53:48,560
Speaker 3: is a I'll give you one other example with Judaism's

888
00:53:48,719 --> 00:53:52,200
Speaker 3: very This is this is a Judaism Christian more than

889
00:53:52,280 --> 00:53:55,640
Speaker 3: jew Christian, because I wouldn't argue for a nanosecond that

890
00:53:56,160 --> 00:53:59,359
Speaker 3: either side has a monopoly on ethical people. That I

891
00:53:59,440 --> 00:54:04,520
Speaker 3: not for a second. But interestingly, I will often get

892
00:54:04,600 --> 00:54:08,840
Speaker 3: letters from Christian pastors saying Dennis I love you, I

893
00:54:08,880 --> 00:54:11,280
Speaker 3: love your writings, and I'm gonna I'm going to steal

894
00:54:11,320 --> 00:54:14,880
Speaker 3: some of your ideas from my sermon for my next article,

895
00:54:15,560 --> 00:54:21,840
Speaker 3: and they will do that. No rabbi has ever cited

896
00:54:21,880 --> 00:54:26,480
Speaker 3: me without citing my name, because in Judaism you are

897
00:54:26,560 --> 00:54:30,520
Speaker 3: forbidden to take an idea from someone else without attribution.

898
00:54:30,920 --> 00:54:33,680
Speaker 3: It is that. That's a big sin, believe it or not.

899
00:54:33,760 --> 00:54:37,400
Speaker 3: That's a bigger sin than lusting. Not citing the source

900
00:54:37,440 --> 00:54:40,520
Speaker 3: of an idea is a bigger sin in Judaism than lusting.

901
00:54:41,520 --> 00:54:44,640
Speaker 3: Now for a Christian, that's news, that's revelation.

902
00:54:45,520 --> 00:54:46,520
Speaker 2: But that is the case.

903
00:54:46,600 --> 00:54:50,399
Speaker 3: And so always if a rabbi or any cognizant Jew

904
00:54:50,400 --> 00:54:54,040
Speaker 3: will cite somebody the talm, what over is crazed about it?

905
00:54:54,040 --> 00:54:55,960
Speaker 2: That's the major Jewish work After the Bible.

906
00:54:57,040 --> 00:54:59,960
Speaker 3: Rabbi so and so said, in the name of Rabbi

907
00:55:00,040 --> 00:55:02,440
Speaker 3: so and so, who heard it from Rabbi so and

908
00:55:02,520 --> 00:55:05,520
Speaker 3: so so. Not only is Rabbi so and so giving

909
00:55:05,520 --> 00:55:09,359
Speaker 3: the original attribution, he's also telling who heard it and

910
00:55:09,480 --> 00:55:11,760
Speaker 3: conveyed it to him. So you have three people conveying

911
00:55:11,800 --> 00:55:15,320
Speaker 3: the idea. That's why, by the way, the very phrase

912
00:55:15,400 --> 00:55:15,960
Speaker 3: is accurate.

913
00:55:16,040 --> 00:55:18,719
Speaker 2: I will steal. I'm going to steal your ideas, and

914
00:55:18,760 --> 00:55:20,320
Speaker 2: then sometimes depending how.

915
00:55:20,160 --> 00:55:21,759
Speaker 3: Close I am to the crystal, say you, but it

916
00:55:21,800 --> 00:55:25,480
Speaker 3: says nou shall not steal. And this is a very

917
00:55:25,520 --> 00:55:30,400
Speaker 3: big part of theft. So that's an interesting different arena

918
00:55:30,440 --> 00:55:33,399
Speaker 3: on what the preoccupations in the sin in the sin

919
00:55:33,480 --> 00:55:34,320
Speaker 3: world are about.

920
00:55:34,880 --> 00:55:38,120
Speaker 2: Did I have one other? Oh? Yes, give you one

921
00:55:38,160 --> 00:55:40,480
Speaker 2: other law that is very well known in Judaism.

922
00:55:40,920 --> 00:55:43,720
Speaker 3: There's a Talmudic law that if you walk into a store,

923
00:55:44,360 --> 00:55:46,800
Speaker 3: a Jew who walks into a store is not permitted

924
00:55:46,840 --> 00:55:51,359
Speaker 3: to ask the storekeeper the price of an item if

925
00:55:51,400 --> 00:55:54,319
Speaker 3: he knows he will not buy it. You are not

926
00:55:54,400 --> 00:55:57,960
Speaker 3: allowed to take the time of the storekeeper for no reason.

927
00:55:58,280 --> 00:56:00,080
Speaker 3: If you know you're not going to buy a car

928
00:56:00,120 --> 00:56:04,520
Speaker 3: at car dealer X, you cannot test drive it now

929
00:56:04,600 --> 00:56:06,439
Speaker 3: if you don't know where you'll buy it. Of course

930
00:56:06,480 --> 00:56:08,680
Speaker 3: you can test drive it because there's a possibility you

931
00:56:08,680 --> 00:56:11,440
Speaker 3: will buy it there. But if you are certain you won't,

932
00:56:11,520 --> 00:56:13,799
Speaker 3: you will get it through the internet. You will not

933
00:56:13,880 --> 00:56:16,799
Speaker 3: even get it at all. You just want a joy ride, Hey,

934
00:56:16,880 --> 00:56:19,439
Speaker 3: I really want to. You know, a nine teen years

935
00:56:19,480 --> 00:56:21,640
Speaker 3: old and I'm dying to test drive a Porsche I'm

936
00:56:21,640 --> 00:56:23,520
Speaker 3: going to go to a Porsche dealer. I'll never buy it,

937
00:56:23,560 --> 00:56:27,200
Speaker 3: but by golly, it's fun. You can't mislead, and that

938
00:56:27,320 --> 00:56:29,160
Speaker 3: is what it is. You could say the truth, say,

939
00:56:29,200 --> 00:56:31,080
Speaker 3: you know what, I have no intention of buying this here,

940
00:56:31,520 --> 00:56:33,200
Speaker 3: but I'd like to test drive the car. Of course,

941
00:56:33,239 --> 00:56:34,600
Speaker 3: the God will say, well, then, you know, we don't

942
00:56:34,600 --> 00:56:36,400
Speaker 3: have the time for you. We have the time for

943
00:56:36,440 --> 00:56:38,880
Speaker 3: people who might buy a car. Well what about you know,

944
00:56:38,920 --> 00:56:42,239
Speaker 3: the women who will you know, take a dress from

945
00:56:42,280 --> 00:56:44,640
Speaker 3: Nordstrom for the weekend and then return it after they

946
00:56:44,680 --> 00:56:48,399
Speaker 3: wore it Saturday night. That's theft. That's a very big sin,

947
00:56:49,320 --> 00:56:52,560
Speaker 3: and everybody thinking about it. Christians will agree it's a

948
00:56:52,560 --> 00:56:54,920
Speaker 3: sin too. I'm just talking about what it is that

949
00:56:55,040 --> 00:57:00,040
Speaker 3: might be emphasized. Finally, on the other side, what it

950
00:57:00,120 --> 00:57:02,880
Speaker 3: is that Jews can learn from Christians. This is a

951
00:57:02,920 --> 00:57:09,600
Speaker 3: real irony, but it is absolutely accurate, and that you

952
00:57:09,640 --> 00:57:12,200
Speaker 3: would think that this is what Jews would specialize in

953
00:57:12,320 --> 00:57:13,760
Speaker 3: since they developed the idea.

954
00:57:14,080 --> 00:57:15,839
Speaker 2: But it's Christians who.

955
00:57:15,800 --> 00:57:18,360
Speaker 3: Took the idea and ran with it, and that is

956
00:57:19,200 --> 00:57:26,240
Speaker 3: a mission to humanity. Christians believe every Christian, I believe

957
00:57:26,320 --> 00:57:29,840
Speaker 3: almost every Christian who is it all serious about his

958
00:57:30,000 --> 00:57:33,200
Speaker 3: or her Christianity well could answer the question what is

959
00:57:33,240 --> 00:57:36,600
Speaker 3: your greatest task as a Christian? And I think most

960
00:57:36,640 --> 00:57:40,440
Speaker 3: would say to spread the Gospel. If you ask a

961
00:57:40,560 --> 00:57:43,240
Speaker 3: Jew what is your task as a Jew, they won't

962
00:57:43,240 --> 00:57:47,160
Speaker 3: know what you're saying. I just spoke at Yeshiva University,

963
00:57:47,280 --> 00:57:51,120
Speaker 3: the leading Orthodox university in the world. I was a

964
00:57:51,160 --> 00:57:54,200
Speaker 3: scholar in residence, and I asked the students that you know,

965
00:57:54,720 --> 00:57:57,200
Speaker 3: what's your task as a Jew? You're an Orthodox? To

966
00:57:57,280 --> 00:58:00,640
Speaker 3: your religious Jew, what's your task? And I would say,

967
00:58:00,720 --> 00:58:03,400
Speaker 3: my task is to do the Mistress keep the commandments? Yeah,

968
00:58:03,440 --> 00:58:05,600
Speaker 3: but what's your Yeah, But that doesn't answer what is

969
00:58:05,640 --> 00:58:06,200
Speaker 3: your task?

970
00:58:06,720 --> 00:58:07,800
Speaker 2: That's it.

971
00:58:07,880 --> 00:58:11,880
Speaker 3: There's no greater mission in your Jewish life than to

972
00:58:12,080 --> 00:58:13,520
Speaker 3: just fulfill the commandments.

973
00:58:14,840 --> 00:58:17,040
Speaker 2: The Christians have a sense of mission to.

974
00:58:17,040 --> 00:58:23,080
Speaker 3: The world that animates them utterly and totally, ironically and tragically.

975
00:58:23,280 --> 00:58:25,439
Speaker 3: There are many Jews with a mission to the world,

976
00:58:25,520 --> 00:58:30,120
Speaker 3: but they're not religious. These are Jews whose religion is

977
00:58:30,680 --> 00:58:36,040
Speaker 3: liberalism or leftism. It might be feminism, it might be

978
00:58:36,520 --> 00:58:40,720
Speaker 3: it might be environmentalism, it might be socialism. In other words,

979
00:58:40,760 --> 00:58:43,160
Speaker 3: many Jews feel a mission to the world, but they're

980
00:58:43,200 --> 00:58:44,240
Speaker 3: not the religious ones.

981
00:58:45,560 --> 00:58:46,360
Speaker 2: But so the.

982
00:58:46,360 --> 00:58:52,200
Speaker 3: Religious Jewish life has become missionless, and the secular Jews

983
00:58:52,280 --> 00:58:54,760
Speaker 3: or even non Jewish Jews, they're filled with a mission.

984
00:58:54,880 --> 00:58:58,240
Speaker 3: That's a problem. But Christians have a sense of mission

985
00:58:58,240 --> 00:59:01,040
Speaker 3: to humanity. That's why we I mean, we're in New Zealand.

986
00:59:01,040 --> 00:59:03,800
Speaker 3: Now we're off the coast of New Zealand. You know,

987
00:59:04,840 --> 00:59:08,960
Speaker 3: missionaries came here to convert people to Christianity and do

988
00:59:09,040 --> 00:59:12,120
Speaker 3: a lot of good while they did it. Missionaries may

989
00:59:12,120 --> 00:59:14,320
Speaker 3: not have a good name at your local university, but

990
00:59:14,400 --> 00:59:17,600
Speaker 3: they have done immense good in this world. They didn't

991
00:59:17,640 --> 00:59:19,240
Speaker 3: go to people and say if you don't can verg

992
00:59:19,240 --> 00:59:22,800
Speaker 3: will kill you. They went by and large and said,

993
00:59:22,840 --> 00:59:25,000
Speaker 3: you know what, we would like to teach you our scriptures.

994
00:59:25,040 --> 00:59:27,120
Speaker 3: We think it's more elevated than the than the way

995
00:59:27,160 --> 00:59:30,040
Speaker 3: of life you may have. Now we believe it's true,

996
00:59:30,120 --> 00:59:31,760
Speaker 3: and we are going to just live among you and

997
00:59:31,760 --> 00:59:33,960
Speaker 3: do as much good as we can. We'll build hospitals

998
00:59:34,000 --> 00:59:36,320
Speaker 3: here and we'll try to be models of what we're

999
00:59:36,360 --> 00:59:40,800
Speaker 3: talking about. That's what missionaries buy and Large did. That's

1000
00:59:40,800 --> 00:59:44,520
Speaker 3: a sense of mission. There is one religious Jewish group

1001
00:59:44,520 --> 00:59:46,480
Speaker 3: with a sense of mission. That's kabbad If you ever

1002
00:59:46,520 --> 00:59:49,880
Speaker 3: heard of them, the Haabad Hasidim. They're they're you know,

1003
00:59:50,400 --> 00:59:53,400
Speaker 3: they're a small group compared to the rest of jewelry,

1004
00:59:53,520 --> 00:59:56,400
Speaker 3: but they have it, but by and large it has

1005
00:59:56,520 --> 01:00:00,920
Speaker 3: been lost. Now that's the talk that is that is

1006
01:00:01,040 --> 01:00:04,560
Speaker 3: these are huge areas. Now when you think about it,

1007
01:00:05,840 --> 01:00:09,680
Speaker 3: how if these two actually did influence each other in

1008
01:00:09,760 --> 01:00:13,680
Speaker 3: these ways while keeping true to the values that unite them.

1009
01:00:13,720 --> 01:00:15,240
Speaker 3: And that's why maybe I should give one of the

1010
01:00:15,280 --> 01:00:18,160
Speaker 3: other talks on the values that do unite them. This

1011
01:00:18,360 --> 01:00:22,920
Speaker 3: is utterly transformative. This would be unbelievable in its impact

1012
01:00:23,000 --> 01:00:25,240
Speaker 3: in the world that is looking for something, because the

1013
01:00:25,280 --> 01:00:28,280
Speaker 3: world is devoid of a good system of values. It

1014
01:00:28,360 --> 01:00:31,480
Speaker 3: is devoid of it outside of Judeo Christian I don't

1015
01:00:31,560 --> 01:00:35,040
Speaker 3: know of a good value system in the world. I

1016
01:00:35,160 --> 01:00:38,120
Speaker 3: really don't. I'm very worried about the world in that way.

1017
01:00:39,040 --> 01:00:43,040
Speaker 3: So that's what these two remarkable groups can teach each other.

1018
01:00:43,320 --> 01:00:46,040
Speaker 3: And it could come to pass essentially in one place.

1019
01:00:46,640 --> 01:00:49,280
Speaker 3: I wish it were true others, but if it can,

1020
01:00:49,360 --> 01:00:52,280
Speaker 3: it's in the US. I will end with a little

1021
01:00:52,320 --> 01:00:54,400
Speaker 3: story on that. I was on the Larry King Show.

1022
01:00:54,560 --> 01:00:59,760
Speaker 3: It was the Christmas Eve program, and I was on

1023
01:01:00,000 --> 01:01:05,120
Speaker 3: with a major Protestant leader and a major Catholic priest

1024
01:01:05,280 --> 01:01:07,960
Speaker 3: and Deepak Chopra a major.

1025
01:01:07,720 --> 01:01:11,439
Speaker 2: Knihlist, And that was a joke. That was a joke.

1026
01:01:12,480 --> 01:01:14,400
Speaker 3: I think he is a major nialist, but that's not

1027
01:01:14,560 --> 01:01:21,320
Speaker 3: his identification in any event. Oh and a Muslim and

1028
01:01:21,560 --> 01:01:24,360
Speaker 3: a leading Muslim was on American Muslim whom I know

1029
01:01:24,560 --> 01:01:28,360
Speaker 3: very well. And that near the very end of the show,

1030
01:01:29,640 --> 01:01:31,880
Speaker 3: Larry King mentioned that, Hey, you know, look at this

1031
01:01:32,120 --> 01:01:36,600
Speaker 3: is this beautiful Muslim, a Jew, Christians sitting here, you know,

1032
01:01:37,160 --> 01:01:39,160
Speaker 3: not killing each other, united.

1033
01:01:38,800 --> 01:01:39,160
Speaker 2: And so on.

1034
01:01:39,280 --> 01:01:42,600
Speaker 3: I said, Larry, there's only one reason. It's because it's

1035
01:01:42,640 --> 01:01:46,280
Speaker 3: the United States of America. And the Muslim said, Dennis

1036
01:01:46,400 --> 01:01:49,400
Speaker 3: is right now is important that he said that too,

1037
01:01:50,680 --> 01:01:53,160
Speaker 3: And that is right, and that is where, that is

1038
01:01:53,280 --> 01:01:54,720
Speaker 3: where something will happen.

1039
01:01:54,840 --> 01:01:56,840
Speaker 2: And that is what makes America different too.

1040
01:01:57,440 --> 01:02:01,440
Speaker 3: America has a sense of a mission to humanity, for

1041
01:02:01,560 --> 01:02:05,360
Speaker 3: which reason it's hated. People with missions are not loved.

1042
01:02:06,320 --> 01:02:09,040
Speaker 3: The Jew started with a mission, that's why they believe

1043
01:02:09,080 --> 01:02:13,600
Speaker 3: in chosenness. They why they dropped. The sense of mission

1044
01:02:13,720 --> 01:02:17,240
Speaker 3: is both historical and theological enough for this moment, but

1045
01:02:17,920 --> 01:02:20,360
Speaker 3: it was carried on by Christians and now carried on

1046
01:02:20,960 --> 01:02:22,640
Speaker 3: by the United States of America.

1047
01:02:23,360 --> 01:02:26,360
Speaker 2: A mission to be a bright shining light on a hill.

1048
01:02:27,280 --> 01:02:29,120
Speaker 2: That's what we can teach each other, and I think

1049
01:02:29,160 --> 01:02:36,080
Speaker 2: it's going to happen. Thank you very very much. Thank you.

1050
01:02:39,960 --> 01:02:44,320
Speaker 3: Okay, thanks very much. Time for questions, comments and prefultimate speeches.

1051
01:02:44,440 --> 01:02:48,040
Speaker 1: Yes, this episode of Timeless Wisdom will continue right after this.

1052
01:02:53,640 --> 01:02:57,200
Speaker 1: Now back to more of Dennis Prager's Timeless Wisdom.

1053
01:02:58,320 --> 01:03:01,800
Speaker 4: We happen to be in Europe during the last election,

1054
01:03:02,160 --> 01:03:05,320
Speaker 4: and there was a lot of discussion about the.

1055
01:03:05,440 --> 01:03:07,880
Speaker 2: Subject that you're talking about.

1056
01:03:08,680 --> 01:03:12,080
Speaker 4: I think Europeans saying to be confused as to whether

1057
01:03:13,320 --> 01:03:16,840
Speaker 4: the relationship of the United States between religion is more

1058
01:03:16,920 --> 01:03:23,480
Speaker 4: political is religious otherwise, that there's a very strong influence

1059
01:03:23,600 --> 01:03:27,120
Speaker 4: of the Jewish population in the United States of the

1060
01:03:27,280 --> 01:03:32,520
Speaker 4: Christian Association, that they really don't trust us in that respect.

1061
01:03:32,640 --> 01:03:34,520
Speaker 2: That you know, over there they made.

1062
01:03:34,360 --> 01:03:38,880
Speaker 4: The point that a very small population the population actually

1063
01:03:38,960 --> 01:03:40,680
Speaker 4: go to church or involved.

1064
01:03:40,800 --> 01:03:44,360
Speaker 3: You know, it's yeah, the Europeans, You're right, the Europeans

1065
01:03:44,520 --> 01:03:49,920
Speaker 3: don't understand and in fact fear the power of religious Americans.

1066
01:03:49,960 --> 01:03:52,240
Speaker 3: That's part of the biggest part of their fear of

1067
01:03:52,320 --> 01:03:56,400
Speaker 3: George Bush that he's religious and actually believes that he

1068
01:03:56,440 --> 01:03:57,960
Speaker 3: gets his values from his religion.

1069
01:03:58,120 --> 01:03:59,880
Speaker 2: That's why I love George Bush.

1070
01:04:00,440 --> 01:04:03,440
Speaker 3: That's why these hated in Europe. In part that in

1071
01:04:03,520 --> 01:04:06,120
Speaker 3: his belief that America knows better than the United Nations

1072
01:04:06,200 --> 01:04:09,560
Speaker 3: how to act. To me, that is so self evident.

1073
01:04:11,520 --> 01:04:14,280
Speaker 3: You know, I think my twelve year old knows better

1074
01:04:14,320 --> 01:04:17,040
Speaker 3: than the United Nations how to act. The United Nations

1075
01:04:17,120 --> 01:04:19,320
Speaker 3: made Sudan in the midst of its genus side the

1076
01:04:19,360 --> 01:04:22,960
Speaker 3: head of its Human Rights Commission. I mean, it's the

1077
01:04:23,440 --> 01:04:27,040
Speaker 3: UN is morally inverted. It's it's not just wrong, it's

1078
01:04:27,080 --> 01:04:31,080
Speaker 3: it's it's it's upside down. But yes, they do fear that,

1079
01:04:31,320 --> 01:04:34,440
Speaker 3: and you know they have. They have much bigger fears

1080
01:04:34,480 --> 01:04:38,040
Speaker 3: to fear, however, as they will gradually and are gradually learning,

1081
01:04:38,560 --> 01:04:42,000
Speaker 3: and that is the erosion of Europe. I had a

1082
01:04:42,040 --> 01:04:44,600
Speaker 3: woman on who is a major scholar, written a major

1083
01:04:44,640 --> 01:04:47,920
Speaker 3: book you should read it called Arabia, How Europe is

1084
01:04:48,000 --> 01:04:53,000
Speaker 3: becoming Arabia, becoming a Muslim continent. And it is this

1085
01:04:53,160 --> 01:04:57,280
Speaker 3: is not hysteria, this is not it's just it is

1086
01:04:58,080 --> 01:05:03,880
Speaker 3: Europeans don't pro create, no secular affluent group procreates. Religious

1087
01:05:04,040 --> 01:05:08,320
Speaker 3: affluent and religious poor and non religious poor pro create,

1088
01:05:08,600 --> 01:05:10,080
Speaker 3: but religious affluent don't.

1089
01:05:11,080 --> 01:05:16,760
Speaker 2: They prefer to spend their money on eating out and cruises.

1090
01:05:27,280 --> 01:05:31,840
Speaker 5: And what happened that people in some way they lost,

1091
01:05:32,360 --> 01:05:35,680
Speaker 5: not saying everyone, but in Judaism the road the lost

1092
01:05:35,760 --> 01:05:42,040
Speaker 5: the main sense of Judaism that they relate to more

1093
01:05:42,120 --> 01:05:46,160
Speaker 5: to the ceremonies or more to the less important issues.

1094
01:05:46,840 --> 01:05:50,320
Speaker 2: For example, you know in young people, you can ask

1095
01:05:51,560 --> 01:05:52,160
Speaker 2: God for.

1096
01:05:53,040 --> 01:05:56,840
Speaker 5: Forgiveness about scenes between you and God, but you cannot

1097
01:05:56,880 --> 01:06:02,080
Speaker 5: ask for forgiveness between you and other people. And also

1098
01:06:02,520 --> 01:06:07,280
Speaker 5: what is important, what is important in Judaism is what

1099
01:06:07,560 --> 01:06:11,720
Speaker 5: is happening, how you behave to people, not if you

1100
01:06:11,880 --> 01:06:17,800
Speaker 5: pray three times a day or you don't eat you

1101
01:06:18,080 --> 01:06:22,440
Speaker 5: eat kostia. This is maybe it was developed later, which

1102
01:06:22,480 --> 01:06:24,800
Speaker 5: is important that you know the I think me out

1103
01:06:24,880 --> 01:06:30,200
Speaker 5: said it that maya that God says to the people.

1104
01:06:30,600 --> 01:06:33,960
Speaker 5: You know, when you come to visit me, I will

1105
01:06:34,000 --> 01:06:37,120
Speaker 5: not watch you because your hands are full with blood.

1106
01:06:37,880 --> 01:06:40,480
Speaker 5: And when you will come to visit my temple, I

1107
01:06:40,600 --> 01:06:45,200
Speaker 5: don't wish you to step in my temple because you don't.

1108
01:06:45,040 --> 01:06:47,760
Speaker 2: Take care of the orphanage of the widow et cetera,

1109
01:06:47,800 --> 01:06:48,760
Speaker 2: et cetera, et cetera.

1110
01:06:50,240 --> 01:06:54,800
Speaker 5: And I think that also in some way, so people

1111
01:06:57,120 --> 01:07:01,320
Speaker 5: a lot of Jews raise three times a day what

1112
01:07:01,480 --> 01:07:05,720
Speaker 5: you mentioned before. They keep kosher very strictly, but they

1113
01:07:05,960 --> 01:07:10,720
Speaker 5: like it still, which this is the most important. It's

1114
01:07:10,760 --> 01:07:14,640
Speaker 5: written strictly in the Bible. Don't still, don't lie, keep

1115
01:07:14,720 --> 01:07:19,440
Speaker 5: you what God's saying. And I think I think just

1116
01:07:19,680 --> 01:07:24,240
Speaker 5: finished Christianity. I I had a gentleman that was working

1117
01:07:24,280 --> 01:07:27,960
Speaker 5: in my company. He was going to churche life we

1118
01:07:29,480 --> 01:07:32,680
Speaker 5: know every time and was involved and so but school,

1119
01:07:34,080 --> 01:07:37,400
Speaker 5: so whin'd bringing it? Because people they lost what is

1120
01:07:37,480 --> 01:07:40,960
Speaker 5: important and what is less important for the most important

1121
01:07:41,000 --> 01:07:43,520
Speaker 5: be a good a good person, help each other.

1122
01:07:45,280 --> 01:07:48,000
Speaker 2: I I agree with you in in look and I

1123
01:07:48,080 --> 01:07:48,360
Speaker 2: said it.

1124
01:07:48,480 --> 01:07:52,560
Speaker 3: I spoke about how ritual has can so overwhelmed in

1125
01:07:52,680 --> 01:07:57,760
Speaker 3: Judaism and it's overwhelmed other things and and uh, I agree. However,

1126
01:07:57,960 --> 01:08:02,760
Speaker 3: what I don't agree is that secularism produces better people.

1127
01:08:04,120 --> 01:08:08,400
Speaker 3: In fact, secularism I think has produced worse people than

1128
01:08:08,760 --> 01:08:13,480
Speaker 3: Judaism and Christianity have produced. If if I were told

1129
01:08:13,640 --> 01:08:17,400
Speaker 3: I had to do a business deal, and I only

1130
01:08:17,479 --> 01:08:21,919
Speaker 3: knew this ye that there were two men one man

1131
01:08:22,960 --> 01:08:26,320
Speaker 3: thought religion was nonsense. The other one went to church

1132
01:08:26,440 --> 01:08:31,040
Speaker 3: every Sunday. That's all I knew. I wouldn't flip a coin.

1133
01:08:31,200 --> 01:08:33,479
Speaker 3: I would take the guy who went to church every Sunday.

1134
01:08:33,520 --> 01:08:35,040
Speaker 3: Does that mean that there is no one who goes

1135
01:08:35,040 --> 01:08:37,920
Speaker 3: to church every Sunday who would cheat? I wish that

1136
01:08:38,040 --> 01:08:39,280
Speaker 3: were the case, but we all.

1137
01:08:39,200 --> 01:08:41,639
Speaker 2: Know, of course not. But if I have to weigh

1138
01:08:41,760 --> 01:08:44,400
Speaker 2: the odds, I.

1139
01:08:46,160 --> 01:08:49,400
Speaker 3: Can only tell you that the most morally confused place

1140
01:08:49,520 --> 01:08:52,840
Speaker 3: in America is the most secular place, and that is

1141
01:08:52,920 --> 01:08:57,840
Speaker 3: the university. It is sick, Its values are awful. It

1142
01:08:57,920 --> 01:09:02,200
Speaker 3: doesn't know the difference between good and evil. The average

1143
01:09:02,640 --> 01:09:07,760
Speaker 3: fifteen year old Christian homeschool child has a better understanding

1144
01:09:07,800 --> 01:09:09,840
Speaker 3: of good and evil than the average professor in the

1145
01:09:09,960 --> 01:09:15,200
Speaker 3: United States and in Israel. These are secular moral idiots.

1146
01:09:15,720 --> 01:09:18,360
Speaker 3: So I do not trust secularism as far as I

1147
01:09:18,400 --> 01:09:21,840
Speaker 3: can throw it. That doesn't mean I trust all religious people.

1148
01:09:22,080 --> 01:09:25,080
Speaker 2: I don't. But between the two, I have.

1149
01:09:25,200 --> 01:09:30,240
Speaker 3: A chance to improve people who are Bible based much

1150
01:09:30,320 --> 01:09:33,559
Speaker 3: better than I have a chance to improve people who

1151
01:09:33,640 --> 01:09:34,960
Speaker 3: get their ethics from their heart.

1152
01:09:36,280 --> 01:09:38,320
Speaker 2: So that's the best I can do the world. It's

1153
01:09:38,400 --> 01:09:39,840
Speaker 2: very hard to produce good people.

1154
01:09:39,920 --> 01:09:43,080
Speaker 3: But secularism is a failure that I know when I

1155
01:09:43,160 --> 01:09:46,120
Speaker 3: look at Western Europe that can tell the difference between

1156
01:09:46,320 --> 01:09:49,360
Speaker 3: Israel and those who blow up their children. They can't

1157
01:09:49,360 --> 01:09:51,920
Speaker 3: tell the difference, or they actually support the people who

1158
01:09:51,960 --> 01:09:55,639
Speaker 3: blow up the Israelis children. That's the most secular place

1159
01:09:55,720 --> 01:09:59,519
Speaker 3: in the world, Western Europe, and it is profoundly morally confused,

1160
01:09:59,560 --> 01:10:03,280
Speaker 3: if not actually immoral. America is the most religious place

1161
01:10:03,360 --> 01:10:06,160
Speaker 3: in the western industrialized world, and I think it's the

1162
01:10:06,240 --> 01:10:11,080
Speaker 3: best with all of it's bad and problems. So I agree,

1163
01:10:11,120 --> 01:10:14,479
Speaker 3: and that that's why I want this battle to be waged,

1164
01:10:14,880 --> 01:10:17,120
Speaker 3: to get people who are religious to think about the

1165
01:10:17,240 --> 01:10:21,280
Speaker 3: most important things, which I do believe still in God's eyes, or.

1166
01:10:21,280 --> 01:10:23,720
Speaker 2: How we treat each other. Since I have to end

1167
01:10:23,760 --> 01:10:24,639
Speaker 2: with that, I will make.

1168
01:10:24,600 --> 01:10:27,040
Speaker 3: The case why I really do believe that God cares

1169
01:10:27,120 --> 01:10:28,960
Speaker 3: more about how we treat each other than how we

1170
01:10:29,040 --> 01:10:29,519
Speaker 3: treat him.

1171
01:10:30,560 --> 01:10:32,679
Speaker 2: And I only knew this when I became a father.

1172
01:10:33,960 --> 01:10:36,519
Speaker 3: It was far more painful to me to see my

1173
01:10:36,680 --> 01:10:40,000
Speaker 3: kids mistreating each other than if my kids mistreated me.

1174
01:10:41,120 --> 01:10:44,200
Speaker 3: Any parent would any day trade in that their kids

1175
01:10:44,280 --> 01:10:47,759
Speaker 3: love each other for that their kids love them, because

1176
01:10:47,800 --> 01:10:49,680
Speaker 3: if your kids love you and hate each other, you

1177
01:10:49,800 --> 01:10:52,560
Speaker 3: have no happiness. But if they have big problems with

1178
01:10:52,640 --> 01:10:54,519
Speaker 3: you and they all love each other, you are a

1179
01:10:54,680 --> 01:10:55,599
Speaker 3: very happy parent.

1180
01:10:55,960 --> 01:10:59,120
Speaker 2: And God is our father in heaven. Till next time, Thanks.

1181
01:10:59,000 --> 01:11:05,080
Speaker 1: Very much, this has been timeless wisdom with Dennis Prager.

1182
01:11:05,560 --> 01:11:09,599
Speaker 1: Visit Denisprager dot com for thousands of hours if Dennis's lectures,

1183
01:11:09,720 --> 01:11:13,599
Speaker 1: courses in classic radio programs, and to purchase Dennis Prager's

1184
01:11:13,800 --> 01:11:14,879
Speaker 1: Rational Bibles.