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Speaker 1: Life Audio. Hey, Greg Laorio with my good friend John Irwin.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to my podcast, and John and I are going

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Speaker 1: to talk about a lot of things. John is a

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Speaker 1: filmmaker extraordinary and we first got to know each other

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Speaker 1: a number of years ago when you came to me

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Speaker 1: with a cover of Time magazine with a sort of

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Speaker 1: psychedelic image of Jesus on it and with the words

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Speaker 1: Jesus Revolution. I think you were in your late thirties

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Speaker 1: when we met, maybe thirty nine.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, it's years. It was twenty fifteen. I'm

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Speaker 2: forty two now, so someone doing your wrath. I'm on

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Speaker 2: a press tour. I'm tired. But basically I remember even

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Speaker 2: before that, and to your credit, I was doing a

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Speaker 2: film called Woodlawn. Before the film I can only imagine,

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Speaker 2: and there was a prayer where a stadium full of people,

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Speaker 2: all of which were digital in the movie, prayed the

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Speaker 2: Lord's Prayer. And we need the audio tours and so

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Speaker 2: to your at it because you had no idea who

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Speaker 2: I was on this, you know, young filmmaker, and I'm like, hi, Pastor.

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Speaker 1: Laurie, great to meet you.

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Speaker 2: Could you at your at your SoCal Evin, just have

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Speaker 2: everyone pray the Lord's prayer for me for a movie

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Speaker 2: like That's how the relationship started. And it was like

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Speaker 2: a week before and you did it and and that

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Speaker 2: audio is in the movie and I'm grateful. And then

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Speaker 2: I had I had bought a magazine. I had found

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Speaker 2: it on eBay and it had the psychedelic cover of

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Speaker 2: Jesus on Us and it had the words Jesus Revolution.

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Speaker 2: And my parents, the Jesus movement was was very definitive

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Speaker 2: for them in their in their in their in their walk.

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Speaker 2: And so I read this article. And there's this thing

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Speaker 2: in our industry that we call fomo, the fear of

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Speaker 2: missing out, which is how I felt. I'm like, my

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Speaker 2: generation has never experienced anything like this, and and it

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Speaker 2: was just the last great sweeping move of God and uh.

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Speaker 3: And so I set out to I want.

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Speaker 2: To meet people that lived this movement, which led to

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Speaker 2: our relationship and a great, a wonderful friendship and great

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Speaker 2: collaboration on many things as you as as you began

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Speaker 2: to produce content. We've made a lot of stuff together,

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Speaker 2: the Steve McQueen documentary, Johnny Cash documentary, of course, Jesus Revolution.

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Speaker 2: And then you're on set and a consultant and a

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Speaker 2: and a guide as always on on House of David

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Speaker 2: as well, and I'm very very grateful.

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Speaker 1: Well, it's such a powerful way to communicate with people,

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Speaker 1: you know, because when you watch a film, uh, you're

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Speaker 1: drawn into the story and it disarms you. You know.

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Speaker 1: One of the greatest challenges of preaching is getting my

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Speaker 1: audience to lower their guard. So the way I do

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Speaker 1: it is I use humor, I use illustrations to help

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Speaker 1: them see how this can connect to their world. But

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Speaker 1: I know the power is in the Word of God.

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Speaker 1: But there's something about a scene in the film, and

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Speaker 1: I have to say with Jesus Revolution, there were times

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Speaker 1: we were shooting it and a lot of it was

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Speaker 1: shot in Alabama. People are surprised to find that out.

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Speaker 3: Four weeks in Alabama, one week.

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Speaker 1: And go, you know, and it was a substitute for California.

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Speaker 1: But there were certain scenes. I think of one scene

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Speaker 1: in particular, when Lonnie played by Jonathan Rumy, who also

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Speaker 1: places Jesus on the Chosen was speaking at his service

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Speaker 1: and he's and it's interrupted by a man saying I

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Speaker 1: need help, and he prays for him. And as that

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Speaker 1: scene was unfolding, I was sitting in this little chapel

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Speaker 1: with the extras, and we're creating, you know, recreating something

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Speaker 1: that happened in real life. I felt like I went

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Speaker 1: back in time. And I said, after it was shot,

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Speaker 1: I said, John, you got lightning in a bottle in

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Speaker 1: this scene. And it's funny because when you see the scene,

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Speaker 1: I feel the same way watching it. Of Course, the

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Speaker 1: music helps, and you know all the things that you

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Speaker 1: do to give you that final product. But but tell

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Speaker 1: me about what you because it's almost like you were there,

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Speaker 1: but you weren't there. But I tried to help you

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Speaker 1: with as many details as I could. You of course

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Speaker 1: studied the Jesus Revolution. How is it you're able to

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Speaker 1: take all that data and information and put it into

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Speaker 1: a scene that moves a person emotionally.

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Speaker 3: That's a great question.

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Speaker 2: And I remember because I was raised in Birmingham, Alabama,

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Speaker 2: basically raised Baptist, and so you know, the the idea

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Speaker 2: of of of that scene. I kept saying, am I

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Speaker 2: getting this right? Am I getting this right?

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Speaker 1: You know?

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Speaker 2: And and and I felt like I was there, And

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Speaker 2: that's sort of the joy of filmmaking. Ken Burns uses

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Speaker 2: this term that I really like called emotional archaeology, and

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Speaker 2: that's sort of the process of taking in a bunch,

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Speaker 2: doing your research almost as an archaeologist, and then doing

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Speaker 2: so much of it that you're so immersed as a

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Speaker 2: filmmaker that you can then create the experience for real.

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Speaker 2: And so that's the that's the joy of it, and

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Speaker 2: what's what's great about it. Like right now, I've never

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Speaker 2: read the Psalms so much, and they're coming to life

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Speaker 2: in new ways, and they're they're influential to me because

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Speaker 2: I'm studying the life of the man that wrote them

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Speaker 2: and trying to make a real experience. And whenever you

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Speaker 2: do that, you just you you you end up asking

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Speaker 2: questions or or or when you wrestle the thing to

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Speaker 2: the ground and make it real, it requires a ton

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Speaker 2: of research and then and then a ton of work

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Speaker 2: and an army of people. But there's something magical about it.

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Speaker 2: And I always want to try to get the story right.

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Speaker 2: And Aaron Sorkin says, the great writer says, you know,

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Speaker 2: when you adapt the true story, it's not a photograph,

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Speaker 2: it's a portrait. So you're trying to paint an accurate portrait.

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Speaker 2: So you're making you know, you're you're having to composite,

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Speaker 2: you know, compress the story and composite characters, and but

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Speaker 2: you're you're trying to get the essence and the truth

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Speaker 2: of the story right and and you do the best

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Speaker 2: you can. And none of them, I mean, George Lucas

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Speaker 2: said films are never complete, they're only a band. And

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Speaker 2: then but Jesus Revolution in particular, I wanted to taste

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Speaker 2: the Jesus movement.

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Speaker 3: I wanted to know.

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Speaker 2: What it felt like for myself, and I feel like

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Speaker 2: we did that day.

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Speaker 3: And also we decided.

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Speaker 2: To film at Pirate's Cove, which is a production nightmare

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Speaker 2: because there's a lot of rocks, it's hard to get in.

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Speaker 2: But I felt like the ground was sacred and that's

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Speaker 2: where it happened, and that's where we should go back.

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Speaker 2: And one of the great days of my life was

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Speaker 2: in terms of why I do what I do.

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Speaker 3: Like what I do is I'm.

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Speaker 2: An entertainer, and it's the entertainment business is a hard business.

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Speaker 3: But why I do what I do?

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Speaker 2: Of course, you want the things to work and on

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Speaker 2: all the metrics that the entertainment industry would would measure

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Speaker 2: things by. But I've always felt that there's this great

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Speaker 2: work going on in Hollywood, but Hollywood's not the hope.

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Speaker 3: Of the world. The local church is the hope of

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Speaker 3: the world.

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Speaker 2: And I've always felt like it's my job to set

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Speaker 2: a volleyball that can be spiked at the local level

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Speaker 2: and sort of be an air force. And so we

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Speaker 2: were together at Pirate's Cove and I just there was

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Speaker 2: a line of thousands and thousands of people as far

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Speaker 2: as my eye could see and doubled back, thousands of

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Speaker 2: which wanted to be baptized, many many of whom because

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Speaker 2: they had seen the film. And it was just a

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Speaker 2: moment where I'm like, this is why I do what

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Speaker 2: I do.

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Speaker 1: Well. It's sort of like, you know, there's the expression

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Speaker 1: art imitating life. So Jesus Revolution was art imitating life.

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Speaker 1: But then when we had a baptism, which we called

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Speaker 1: the Jesus Revolution baptism, life was imitating art. There was

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Speaker 1: imitating my life. But there was a cause and effect there,

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Speaker 1: and I believe we baptized forty five hundred people on

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Speaker 1: that day. It was stunning. But one story that sticks

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Speaker 1: with me is an older man, eighty five years old,

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Speaker 1: you talked about how hard it is to get down

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Speaker 1: to Pirate's cove, and it's true. When I was younger,

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Speaker 1: I used to jump from rock to rock. Now people

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Speaker 1: were helping me, which is really embarrassing. Here let me

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Speaker 1: help you, because you know I'm seventy too. But anyway,

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Speaker 1: this eighty five year old dude comes and so it

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Speaker 1: took him forever to get down the stairs. In fact,

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Speaker 1: he was holding up the line. I was asking, where

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Speaker 1: is everyone. Well, there's an older gentleman and it's hard

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Speaker 1: for him to get down the stairs. But when I

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Speaker 1: heard his story, I felt bad for even saying what

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Speaker 1: I said, because come on, let's go, let's move faster.

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Speaker 1: This guy watched the movie Jesus Revolution.

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Speaker 3: He was moved.

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Speaker 1: He accepted Christ and said I want to be baptized

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Speaker 1: in the same spot when this movie was shot. And

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Speaker 1: as they were baptizing him, his daughter turned to one

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Speaker 1: of our folks and said, we never thought he would

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Speaker 1: come to Christ. So you know, the movie reached him

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Speaker 1: where a sermon didn't. But I want to think about

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Speaker 1: one scene for a moment in that film, and it's

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Speaker 1: when my character Greg played by Joe Courtney, is baptized

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Speaker 1: by Jonathan Rumy who plays Lonnie Frisbee, and of course

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Speaker 1: and then you said to me, Greg, I want to

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Speaker 1: have you get saved right before your bat In real life,

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Speaker 1: I came to Christ a.

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Speaker 3: Lot of times. In film, we composite then.

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Speaker 1: So so you know you changed. And I said, John,

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Speaker 1: as long as they get saved God. Yeah, just make

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Speaker 1: sure he gets saved in the movie. And so you

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Speaker 1: shut that scene. Remember we had like what forty five minutes.

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Speaker 1: It was the golden hour. The sun was said, we

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Speaker 1: couldn't go back the next day. No tell us what

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Speaker 1: it was like to shoot that scene.

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Speaker 2: Well, I remember that Jonathan Rumy who plays Jesus in

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Speaker 2: The Chosen, because we were filming it in h in

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Speaker 2: the spring. Yeah, and we were I was really afraid

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Speaker 2: of the temperature of the.

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Speaker 3: Water, you know, and with it was gonna be cold.

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Speaker 2: So he was praying for like a heat wave, which

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Speaker 2: I guess he's got a direct line to God because

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Speaker 2: he's because there was a heat wave and it was

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Speaker 2: too hot almost it was.

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Speaker 3: It was we almost got shut down from heat.

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Speaker 2: And and we're doing this scene, and we were doing

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Speaker 2: other parts of that scene and h and you could

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Speaker 2: just feel the spirit of God. I feel on set,

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Speaker 2: and I say that I don't say that often baptists

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Speaker 2: from the South, but there was a magic there and

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Speaker 2: I remember, you know, people extras getting baptized were actually

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Speaker 2: really getting baptized, and Jonathan camp out of the water.

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Speaker 2: I'm like, I'm doing this exactly as Greg taught me

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Speaker 2: to do it. You know, I'm saying, but these people

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Speaker 2: are making real decisions. And so I'm which, I guess

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Speaker 2: who better to get baptized by it than Jesus. And

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Speaker 2: so we got to that last moment and you want

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Speaker 2: to wait on the best light, and we were trying

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Speaker 2: to film it over like a four hour period and

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Speaker 2: that didn't work out. So we had forty five minutes

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Speaker 2: to shoot it. And so it's one of my favorite

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Speaker 2: shots in my career and favorite moments is when Jonathan

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Speaker 2: and Joel playing Lonnie and Greg pray and they kind

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Speaker 2: of touch foreheads and pray the Sinner's prayer, and which

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Speaker 2: I had not written into the script.

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Speaker 3: I had just said they pray again.

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Speaker 2: And then I knew because again, to filmmakers out there,

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Speaker 2: just ask the people that do whatever you're doing for

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Speaker 2: a living. And so I was like, Greg, can you

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Speaker 2: write this prayer? Because this is what you do.

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Speaker 3: So you wrote the prayer in the in the movie,

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Speaker 3: and then I wanted to do.

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Speaker 2: It's important if you're a filmmaker to realize that film

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Speaker 2: it's a symphony of art. That's why it's so powerful,

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Speaker 2: a lot of different art forms bundled, but it is

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Speaker 2: a language unto itself. It's a visual language. Scorsese talks

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Speaker 2: a lot about that, like you know, a pen is

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Speaker 2: like a comma, a zoom is like an exclamation point.

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Speaker 2: So a part of becoming a filmmaker is basically learning

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Speaker 2: a complex visual and emotional language. And it takes a

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Speaker 2: long time and you have to you have to really

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Speaker 2: dedicate yourself to that, to that to that craft, and

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Speaker 2: it's a lifelong quest to try to get better at it.

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Speaker 2: But looking at it as a language is one of

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Speaker 2: the keys of becoming a story tell in film. And

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Speaker 2: so you're trying to take concepts and translate them into

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Speaker 2: this visual language. And so I wrestled a long time

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Speaker 2: of like how do I translate the idea of baptism

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Speaker 2: into the visual language of film. And so what we

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Speaker 2: thought is as soon as your character goes under, I

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Speaker 2: wanted to try to use the craft of film to

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Speaker 2: translate to to showcase the concept of rebirth, because who

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Speaker 2: doesn't want, who doesn't need put myself in that category

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Speaker 2: to think of just to be to be reborn, you know,

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Speaker 2: and to all that you carry. Being washed away is

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Speaker 2: just such a powerful concept. And and so the idea

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Speaker 2: is what we did is we put Joel in a

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Speaker 2: dive tank on the first day of filming, like, welcome

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Speaker 2: to the show.

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Speaker 3: We're going to try to drown you today.

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Speaker 2: Anyway, Amak, I was down I'm a divert so I

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Speaker 2: was down there, and he had weights in his hand.

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Speaker 2: And the idea was for him to kind of sink

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Speaker 2: and then uh and and then kind of see the

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Speaker 2: light and then swim up to a spotlight. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 2: like a spotlight and uh. And that's what we did.

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Speaker 2: And I'm very proud of that. I love of all

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Speaker 2: It's probably my favorite moment in a feature film. That

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Speaker 2: and more recently, the the the.

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Speaker 3: End of h House of Date.

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Speaker 2: Not to spoil it, uh, Clive dies, but uh, you know,

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Speaker 2: the David and Goliath encounter and House to David.

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Speaker 3: I feel the same way.

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Speaker 2: But I'm I'm very honored to you know, you feel

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Speaker 2: like to have anything to do with that moment. The

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Speaker 2: film is a privilege. And I'm very, very very proud

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Speaker 2: of that section of the movie. The movie itself, I

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Speaker 2: love that movie and uh and I'm very proud of

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Speaker 2: of that of that baptism sequence, and I just it

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Speaker 2: gets me emotionally every time I see it. And Fret

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Speaker 2: mccorky's music and his co direction.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, everything well, shifting gears to House of David.

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Speaker 3: Uh.

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Speaker 1: This people, I have to tell you that this is

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Speaker 1: a masterpiece. And John, You've taken all of this learning

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Speaker 1: and experience of all of your filmmaking and put it

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Speaker 1: on display in such a beautiful way to tell one

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Speaker 1: of the great stories of the Bible, the story of

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Speaker 1: the shepherd boy who became the King David. And from

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Speaker 1: the casting of David, which is an amazing story in itself,

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Speaker 1: to the cinematography. And I had the privilege you mentioned

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Speaker 1: of going to Greece and visiting the sets, which were magnificent.

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Speaker 1: I remember walking around in Saul's palace and then in

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Speaker 1: his little bedroom, and then of course watching scenes being shot.

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Speaker 1: And then we shot a lot out in Greece. We

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Speaker 1: did a documentary that a companies House of David called

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Speaker 1: Beyond the House of David. And it was such a privilege.

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Speaker 1: I felt like at times I was going back in

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Speaker 1: time to the story of David. But I think that

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Speaker 1: the costing of David tell us a little bit about

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Speaker 1: how many people wanted to take this role on. Because

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Speaker 1: this is a huge production on Amazon Prime. It's going

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Speaker 1: to be seen by what did you say too?

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Speaker 2: There's globally there's about two hundred and fifty million, believe

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Speaker 2: on subscribers. It's gone out in twenty five languages, all

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Speaker 2: in one day, and it really is.

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Speaker 3: There's this verse that.

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Speaker 2: I love where Paul says of David that he's served

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Speaker 2: the purposes of God and his generation. And I love

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Speaker 2: you've done that decade by decade in the sense of like,

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Speaker 2: sometimes we hold the wrong thing sacred. The message is sacred,

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Speaker 2: the gospel is sacred, but the methods of getting it

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Speaker 2: to people change with the time, and and and that's

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Speaker 2: not what's sacred, right, And so that's why I think,

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Speaker 2: you know, David said, sing a new song, you know,

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Speaker 2: and yes, and so you know the idea of using

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Speaker 2: film and television as a as a new thing to

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Speaker 2: get what's what's sacred and unchanging right to this generation

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Speaker 2: in this time.

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Speaker 1: When the Jesus Movement was happening. That's when contemporary Christian

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Speaker 1: music was born.

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Speaker 3: Correct.

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Speaker 1: In fact, you did a film about that called The

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Speaker 1: Jesus Music, which is fantastic. If you want to know

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Speaker 1: about the birth of contemporary Christian music, watch the documentary.

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Speaker 1: It's the Jesus Music music him. But so that was

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Speaker 1: our expression to our culture. It had never been done before.

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Speaker 1: But now I feel today it's what you're doing. I

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Speaker 1: feel there's a Christian music industry now. It's not surprising

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Speaker 1: when you hear a contemporary Christian song. But we've been

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Speaker 1: so far behind Hollywood and our production values and our

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Speaker 1: storytelling and our work in general. But I think that's changed,

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Speaker 1: and I think we're not behind anymore. I think what

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Speaker 1: you're doing with Dallas Jenkins is doing we've taken a

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Speaker 1: step ahead because you guys are storytellers. That's really what

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Speaker 1: a movie should be ultimately, But so many have an agenda.

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Speaker 1: They want to push an agendas off and it's a

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Speaker 1: woke ideology or it's something else where you're telling a

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Speaker 1: Bible story and bringing it to people, and now here

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Speaker 1: it is on a mainstream platform. And I think this

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Speaker 1: is sort of the new expression like music was to

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Speaker 1: the Jesus movement, this is to our time, and you're

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Speaker 1: on the bleeding edge of it.

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Speaker 3: Which is where you bleed.

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Speaker 1: For sure, that's the best place to be because you know,

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Speaker 1: I like to use the phrase we want to reach

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Speaker 1: unexpected people and unexpected places with an unexpected message. Yes,

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Speaker 1: And I think what people are going to see when

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Speaker 1: they watch House of David is that it's a faithful

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Speaker 1: retelling of the story. And let's talk about the aspect

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Speaker 1: of how biblical it is. But it's a faithful retelling

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Speaker 1: of the story. But it's very God honoring, it's very

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Speaker 1: spiritual in its focus. Because sometimes these stories have been

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Speaker 1: told like they did a movie on the Life of

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Speaker 1: Noah with Russell Crowe, they did a life in a

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Speaker 1: movie in the Life of Moses with Christian Bale, and

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Speaker 1: and though they had good production values and certain aspects

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Speaker 1: of the films were quite good, they missed the story. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: because they deviated so far from the heart. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: they deviated so far from the Bible. But you have

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Speaker 1: done the opposite. You're faithful to the Bible. And so

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Speaker 1: what would you say to the question which I hear

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Speaker 1: a lot, which is well is this biblical?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? Is it? I say that.

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Speaker 2: The Bible is the Bible? Yeah, Scripture is scripture. Yes,

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Speaker 2: so this is not scripture. This is a love letter

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Speaker 2: to scripture like that. This is a hopefully a gigantic

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Speaker 2: cultural billboard. Yes to say, check out the book that

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Speaker 2: will change your life.

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Speaker 3: Yes.

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Speaker 2: So my hope is that people will, and even a

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Speaker 2: lot of people that are Christians when they read the

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Speaker 2: when they watch show, they're like, is that in the Bible?

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Speaker 3: And a lot of those it is. And so it

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Speaker 3: reined the goal the.

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Speaker 2: Dream of the show because what I love about David

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Speaker 2: is a story.

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Speaker 3: Is David is the hero's journey in the Bible.

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Speaker 2: So so the hero's journey is so a lot of

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Speaker 2: what guides the entertainment industry is it is what's called

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Speaker 2: mythic archetypes. There was a when when when George Lucas

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Speaker 2: did Star Wars, he was very influenced by a book

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Speaker 2: called Hero with a Thousand Faces by Joseph Campbell. That

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Speaker 2: exploration is called comparative mythology. And what Joseph Campbell realized

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Speaker 2: is there was this common story in multiple cultures.

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Speaker 3: Like Christopher Nolan is filming The Odyssey right now.

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Speaker 2: That was basically a hero's journey and the idea of

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Speaker 2: someone being beckoned into their destiny, typically by a guide

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Speaker 2: like in our case the prophet Samuel but gandolf Obi

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Speaker 2: wan Kenobi and those type characters and a rite of

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Speaker 2: past wrote a mini trials to typically die and be

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Speaker 2: reborn as a hero and a symbol of hope. And

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Speaker 2: so those basic that basic construct of a story is

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Speaker 2: the premise of Star Wars and Harry Potter and Lord

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Speaker 2: of the Rings and a lot of the Marvel movies

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Speaker 2: and even movies like Rocky. I've thought a lot about it,

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Speaker 2: like why do we need these stories so much? And

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Speaker 2: because Joseph Campbell's point was that these stories have been

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Speaker 2: told in all cultures, even though those cultures couldn't talk

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Speaker 2: to each other for a very long time. And I

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Speaker 2: think it's because we are wired, like it's written on

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Speaker 2: our souls. Two things. It's written on our soul to

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Speaker 2: need a savior, to need a hero. It's also destiny

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Speaker 2: and purpose is what is the purpose of my life?

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Speaker 1: Do I have a destiny?

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Speaker 3: And do I have a role to play in something

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Speaker 3: bigger than me?

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Speaker 1: Wow?

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Speaker 2: That is written into the human soul and I think

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Speaker 2: that's why we need these stories. So what I love

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Speaker 2: about House of David is if you don't know anything

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Speaker 2: about the Bible, you're gonna feel very familiar. The story

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Speaker 2: is gonna feel very familiar to you. If you like

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Speaker 2: Star Wars and Harry Potter and you Lord of the Rings,

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Speaker 2: you're gonna be able to orient.

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Speaker 1: And let me add that the production value, the cinematography,

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Speaker 1: the casting, the direction, and everything else is on the

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Speaker 1: scale of those films.

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Speaker 3: That's my praise. But uh, well it is.

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Speaker 1: Tell uh tell me again what the Amazon executive set

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Speaker 1: up to the read?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, they did.

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Speaker 2: So the executives read the scripts. The first few scripts

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Speaker 2: that are like, these scripts are really good. I'm like,

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Speaker 2: it's based off a best seller. It'll change your life.

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Speaker 2: It's free, you can download it on your phone. We

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Speaker 2: know the author, you know, and and and so again.

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Speaker 2: My great hope is that if you haven't read the

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Speaker 2: Bible in a while, and maybe if you've not read

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Speaker 2: it ever, of course, start with the Gospel John. But

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Speaker 2: secondarily to that, if you want to just relate to

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Speaker 2: whatever you're going through in life that's hard, read the

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Speaker 2: Psalms of David. Only about fifteen percent of those psalms

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Speaker 2: are praise God, my life is great. Most of the

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Speaker 2: psalms are like I need to repent from huge mistakes

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Speaker 2: that I've made.

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Speaker 3: I relate to that.

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Speaker 2: I'm depressed, I'm angry.

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Speaker 3: I'm afraid.

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Speaker 2: All the range of the human experience is written in

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Speaker 2: the psalms of David. And these were written by a

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Speaker 2: king who did not have to be this honest. You

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Speaker 2: know history, they.

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Speaker 1: Were, and they're very honest and very autobiographical. But you know,

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Speaker 1: it's interesting. The Bible says he was a man after

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Speaker 1: God's own heart, and that what a unique description.

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Speaker 2: And so he came back was always because he did

438
00:22:54,244 --> 00:22:56,524
Speaker 2: some his heights were as high as his lows were

439
00:22:56,564 --> 00:22:58,845
Speaker 2: as low. But the way in which he came back

440
00:22:58,844 --> 00:23:04,645
Speaker 2: to God are the songs that we still sing. And yeah,

441
00:23:04,685 --> 00:23:08,404
Speaker 2: So to answer your quest, shown biblical accuracy at season

442
00:23:08,445 --> 00:23:11,205
Speaker 2: one is about three chapters of the Bible, and you

443
00:23:11,244 --> 00:23:13,844
Speaker 2: think of it like biblical commentary. Also as a way,

444
00:23:14,084 --> 00:23:18,764
Speaker 2: this is, you know, filmmakers wrestling with what's there. The

445
00:23:18,885 --> 00:23:23,925
Speaker 2: difference is, you know, when I do Jesus Revolution, I

446
00:23:23,925 --> 00:23:25,405
Speaker 2: can call you and Kathy and being hey.

447
00:23:25,405 --> 00:23:27,324
Speaker 3: In the fall of nineteen seventy eight.

448
00:23:27,405 --> 00:23:30,244
Speaker 2: Wait where were you guys? You know, if I'm doing

449
00:23:30,284 --> 00:23:34,165
Speaker 2: American Underdog, I can call curtain Brenda Warner. So this

450
00:23:34,284 --> 00:23:37,884
Speaker 2: is we have scraps, we have the events. Yes, we

451
00:23:37,925 --> 00:23:40,965
Speaker 2: have the heart of this person in the Psalms. So

452
00:23:41,084 --> 00:23:44,644
Speaker 2: then it's about the joy of creating a narrative in

453
00:23:44,685 --> 00:23:48,845
Speaker 2: a story that justifies the limited information that we have

454
00:23:49,365 --> 00:23:52,484
Speaker 2: and doing the best we can, but always to revere

455
00:23:52,564 --> 00:23:57,084
Speaker 2: and honor the themes of the story, and then again

456
00:23:57,205 --> 00:24:00,445
Speaker 2: to push people to scripture, not try to replace it.

457
00:24:00,484 --> 00:24:03,444
Speaker 1: Well, you know, and preachers do this every Sunday. You know.

458
00:24:03,685 --> 00:24:06,804
Speaker 1: We'll take a text or read it, it will exposit it,

459
00:24:06,885 --> 00:24:10,444
Speaker 1: we'll talk about the cultural background, try to explain it

460
00:24:10,524 --> 00:24:13,764
Speaker 1: in context, what was happening historically, and then of course

461
00:24:13,804 --> 00:24:16,445
Speaker 1: we apply it. It's been said the sermon begins where the

462
00:24:16,484 --> 00:24:19,445
Speaker 1: application begins. People want to know, how does this relate

463
00:24:19,484 --> 00:24:22,084
Speaker 1: to my life? Okay, so then we'll say, well, it's

464
00:24:22,205 --> 00:24:25,165
Speaker 1: like this, and we'll illustrate it with things from our

465
00:24:25,244 --> 00:24:28,684
Speaker 1: life or from culture what's going on around us, and

466
00:24:28,764 --> 00:24:31,965
Speaker 1: apply it. I don't expect anyone to take my sermon

467
00:24:32,604 --> 00:24:35,765
Speaker 1: and see it on the same level as scripture itself.

468
00:24:36,044 --> 00:24:40,685
Speaker 1: I'm a person interpreting scripture giving my opinions. You can

469
00:24:40,725 --> 00:24:42,965
Speaker 1: take it or leave it, but I'm trying to help

470
00:24:43,044 --> 00:24:47,165
Speaker 1: you connect and and so film this is in film,

471
00:24:47,165 --> 00:24:50,164
Speaker 1: you're doing something similar. And I think people just need

472
00:24:50,244 --> 00:24:52,805
Speaker 1: to understand that's what it is, because, like here's an

473
00:24:52,804 --> 00:24:56,365
Speaker 1: example of it. There's this scene, powerful scene when Samuel

474
00:24:56,844 --> 00:25:00,644
Speaker 1: is it. Who's the actor who plays ste He's so

475
00:25:00,685 --> 00:25:04,604
Speaker 1: amazing as Samuel. And what I love about Samuel is

476
00:25:04,844 --> 00:25:08,004
Speaker 1: the scene that's sort of sets it up. You took

477
00:25:08,044 --> 00:25:11,605
Speaker 1: some liberties in the backdrop of him trying to sort

478
00:25:11,604 --> 00:25:14,605
Speaker 1: of present who is this guy? You know? And you

479
00:25:14,685 --> 00:25:17,524
Speaker 1: humanize him in a few scenes because we see this

480
00:25:17,645 --> 00:25:21,445
Speaker 1: great prophet of the Lord, and you did a beautiful

481
00:25:21,445 --> 00:25:23,445
Speaker 1: scene with him and his wife where they had some

482
00:25:23,564 --> 00:25:27,125
Speaker 1: interaction that isn't in the Bible, but it shows he

483
00:25:27,205 --> 00:25:29,644
Speaker 1: was a human being, which he was. It's hard to

484
00:25:29,685 --> 00:25:34,205
Speaker 1: look at these biblical characters, you know, in a fuller way,

485
00:25:34,244 --> 00:25:37,004
Speaker 1: because we only think of them in one way. But

486
00:25:37,044 --> 00:25:40,044
Speaker 1: they're very human people like us. But then when he

487
00:25:40,084 --> 00:25:46,685
Speaker 1: goes into Saul's court and confronts him and can tell Saul,

488
00:25:46,764 --> 00:25:51,324
Speaker 1: you've disobeyed and God has chosen another at that scene

489
00:25:51,405 --> 00:25:55,205
Speaker 1: is note by note, point by point, verse by verse,

490
00:25:55,405 --> 00:25:59,804
Speaker 1: exact exact scripture. And I was blown away because the

491
00:25:59,844 --> 00:26:02,284
Speaker 1: scene that led up to it humanized him and gave

492
00:26:02,324 --> 00:26:05,244
Speaker 1: you context. But then when that scene unfolds, you want

493
00:26:05,244 --> 00:26:09,364
Speaker 1: to talk about biblical, This was as biblical as it gets,

494
00:26:09,405 --> 00:26:12,924
Speaker 1: word for word, and no preacher could come close to

495
00:26:13,004 --> 00:26:16,965
Speaker 1: bringing that story to life and telling it the way

496
00:26:17,564 --> 00:26:19,965
Speaker 1: it does in the House of David. And you know

497
00:26:21,205 --> 00:26:23,085
Speaker 1: one of the phrases, you know, to obey is better

498
00:26:23,125 --> 00:26:26,364
Speaker 1: than sacrifice, you know, is I've heard in many, many sermons,

499
00:26:26,685 --> 00:26:29,645
Speaker 1: And so to dramatize that it's one of the great

500
00:26:29,685 --> 00:26:33,084
Speaker 1: speeches in the Bible, Yes, and to humanize it and

501
00:26:33,084 --> 00:26:35,964
Speaker 1: make it real and adding the human element.

502
00:26:36,044 --> 00:26:36,484
Speaker 3: I loved it.

503
00:26:36,645 --> 00:26:42,685
Speaker 2: Slayings which is his nickname, Stephen Lange, what his take

504
00:26:42,725 --> 00:26:48,364
Speaker 2: on it was that of like almost like a parent

505
00:26:49,004 --> 00:26:51,205
Speaker 2: having to kick their kid out of the house, that

506
00:26:51,284 --> 00:26:53,884
Speaker 2: that's an attic that won't change their behavior. And so

507
00:26:53,965 --> 00:26:56,244
Speaker 2: that's kind of how he portrayed it. And it was

508
00:26:56,484 --> 00:26:58,365
Speaker 2: very very good. Was indeed, like you.

509
00:26:58,405 --> 00:27:00,564
Speaker 1: Told me when he was shooting that scene, who's the

510
00:27:00,604 --> 00:27:05,764
Speaker 1: actor who plays yeah, so great? Into his head? Tell

511
00:27:05,804 --> 00:27:07,045
Speaker 1: me and head budding him.

512
00:27:07,044 --> 00:27:10,284
Speaker 3: And Stephen Laying is from the school of James Cameron.

513
00:27:10,284 --> 00:27:13,804
Speaker 2: You know, he's in all the Avatar films, and soy

514
00:27:14,804 --> 00:27:17,884
Speaker 2: in Tombstone, Tombstone, and what does he say, like, General,

515
00:27:17,925 --> 00:27:20,164
Speaker 2: I have no brigade in Gettysburg or whatever.

516
00:27:20,685 --> 00:27:22,205
Speaker 3: He's just a great character actor.

517
00:27:22,844 --> 00:27:25,725
Speaker 2: And and I like it because he's been in a

518
00:27:25,764 --> 00:27:28,685
Speaker 2: lot of Westerns, and I felt that no one had

519
00:27:28,685 --> 00:27:32,685
Speaker 2: really portrayed a prophet of God as formidable as.

520
00:27:32,524 --> 00:27:33,725
Speaker 1: I read them in the Bible.

521
00:27:34,205 --> 00:27:37,765
Speaker 2: People forget that first of all, when God says to Samuel,

522
00:27:37,885 --> 00:27:39,965
Speaker 2: go anoint, I forget there's someone that I want you

523
00:27:40,044 --> 00:27:40,524
Speaker 2: to annoint.

524
00:27:41,725 --> 00:27:42,604
Speaker 3: Samuel was afraid.

525
00:27:42,645 --> 00:27:45,925
Speaker 2: He said, if Saul finds out, he'll kill me. So

526
00:27:46,004 --> 00:27:47,004
Speaker 2: this anointing of.

527
00:27:47,084 --> 00:27:49,804
Speaker 3: David was a It.

528
00:27:49,725 --> 00:27:51,804
Speaker 2: Wasn't necessarily a good thing to be anointed king in

529
00:27:51,844 --> 00:27:53,805
Speaker 2: a nation that already had a king, as like a

530
00:27:53,844 --> 00:27:56,844
Speaker 2: secret that could get you killed. But then when he

531
00:27:56,885 --> 00:27:59,685
Speaker 2: goes to Bethlehem, all the men of the city come out.

532
00:27:59,965 --> 00:28:03,044
Speaker 1: It's like a Western They're like, do you come peaceably?

533
00:28:03,324 --> 00:28:05,404
Speaker 2: Like you gon't cause a problem in this town, you know.

534
00:28:05,804 --> 00:28:09,324
Speaker 2: And so this guy was had a formidable side, but

535
00:28:09,405 --> 00:28:13,125
Speaker 2: also a very human side, and I think he portrays

536
00:28:13,205 --> 00:28:15,484
Speaker 2: that well, and that is the joy of wrestling the

537
00:28:15,524 --> 00:28:19,725
Speaker 2: material to the ground. Like an example of Samuel is,

538
00:28:19,844 --> 00:28:23,764
Speaker 2: you know, the people demanded a king in Saul because

539
00:28:24,524 --> 00:28:28,204
Speaker 2: Samuel's children did not follow in his ways. So he

540
00:28:28,244 --> 00:28:32,324
Speaker 2: would have felt a failure as a father because of

541
00:28:32,365 --> 00:28:35,324
Speaker 2: the corruption of his sons. And so this whole thing

542
00:28:35,365 --> 00:28:38,245
Speaker 2: of a king in Israel, I think something in Samuel

543
00:28:38,245 --> 00:28:40,844
Speaker 2: would have carried that, and he also would have felt

544
00:28:40,925 --> 00:28:44,325
Speaker 2: but wait, I didn't even I didn't. I grew up

545
00:28:44,365 --> 00:28:47,565
Speaker 2: in the temple as a child under a prophet that

546
00:28:47,645 --> 00:28:50,325
Speaker 2: was also a bad dad and eli. And the point

547
00:28:50,405 --> 00:28:52,045
Speaker 2: is that I think he would have been like, I

548
00:28:52,045 --> 00:28:54,485
Speaker 2: didn't really have a father figure role model because I

549
00:28:54,525 --> 00:28:59,084
Speaker 2: grew up in the tabernacle or in the templeton exist

550
00:28:59,084 --> 00:29:03,845
Speaker 2: of the time. But in he was raised by priests,

551
00:29:03,885 --> 00:29:07,805
Speaker 2: not by parents, basically, and then he struggled as a

552
00:29:07,805 --> 00:29:13,084
Speaker 2: father while also ruling Israel for forty years. And it

553
00:29:13,205 --> 00:29:15,725
Speaker 2: was that that caused the people to ask for a king.

554
00:29:15,844 --> 00:29:17,765
Speaker 2: So you asked, what would that And so there's a

555
00:29:17,765 --> 00:29:22,364
Speaker 2: great line in the confrontation when when Samuel walk in

556
00:29:22,365 --> 00:29:24,684
Speaker 2: front of Saul says, you know, I loved you like

557
00:29:24,725 --> 00:29:27,245
Speaker 2: a son. Yes, and then Ali says back to them,

558
00:29:27,245 --> 00:29:28,844
Speaker 2: but your sons didn't love you, and that's why the

559
00:29:28,844 --> 00:29:31,485
Speaker 2: people demanded a king. And you just see that punch

560
00:29:31,645 --> 00:29:33,965
Speaker 2: and you see the grief that he carries, and that's

561
00:29:34,005 --> 00:29:37,005
Speaker 2: the human element and the fun of exploring these things

562
00:29:37,005 --> 00:29:37,285
Speaker 2: of man.

563
00:29:37,325 --> 00:29:38,045
Speaker 3: What would that have felt?

564
00:29:38,125 --> 00:29:40,805
Speaker 1: Where did you get this? First of all, I've always

565
00:29:40,844 --> 00:29:44,645
Speaker 1: been impressed by your knowledge of scripture, But where did

566
00:29:44,685 --> 00:29:47,285
Speaker 1: this all come from? Like this love of the Bible,

567
00:29:48,045 --> 00:29:50,205
Speaker 1: It surely goes back to your childhood, the way you

568
00:29:50,205 --> 00:29:50,765
Speaker 1: were raised.

569
00:29:50,844 --> 00:29:57,084
Speaker 3: Yeah, what's the love? David says, I have a godly heritage? Basically, Yes, you.

570
00:29:57,125 --> 00:29:58,045
Speaker 1: Have wonderful parents.

571
00:29:58,325 --> 00:30:02,445
Speaker 3: I do, and my dad So you know, I think.

572
00:30:02,245 --> 00:30:06,084
Speaker 1: By the way his father Hank if you saw Woodlawn,

573
00:30:06,485 --> 00:30:09,084
Speaker 1: that's based on the true story of his father Hates

574
00:30:09,125 --> 00:30:12,084
Speaker 1: that's right, and he's played by Shawn Aston Seawan Aston

575
00:30:12,645 --> 00:30:15,605
Speaker 1: and so uh and that's back in the Jesus Movement days.

576
00:30:15,645 --> 00:30:18,005
Speaker 1: As you said, that's right and so but your father

577
00:30:18,125 --> 00:30:21,005
Speaker 1: is a wonderful, godly man and your mother is so wonderful.

578
00:30:21,045 --> 00:30:24,124
Speaker 1: But the way they raised you, did they did you

579
00:30:24,565 --> 00:30:26,525
Speaker 1: read the Bible every day? Or yeah?

580
00:30:26,525 --> 00:30:27,525
Speaker 3: There's a few events.

581
00:30:28,725 --> 00:30:31,165
Speaker 2: One was, you know, one of the things that that

582
00:30:31,765 --> 00:30:33,604
Speaker 2: kind of has gone by the wayside of the modern

583
00:30:33,645 --> 00:30:36,084
Speaker 2: church is that the idea of Sunday School. And I

584
00:30:36,165 --> 00:30:39,005
Speaker 2: used to go to Sunday School before church. And we

585
00:30:39,045 --> 00:30:40,845
Speaker 2: did not have a lot of money. We were born

586
00:30:40,885 --> 00:30:42,885
Speaker 2: and raised. I was born and raised in Birmingham, Alabama.

587
00:30:43,405 --> 00:30:46,325
Speaker 2: My dad's a dreamer and and uh he always says,

588
00:30:46,405 --> 00:30:48,885
Speaker 2: dream bold, dream big, dream the impossible, which I love.

589
00:30:49,325 --> 00:30:51,644
Speaker 3: But we had no money and we would literally go

590
00:30:51,685 --> 00:30:52,405
Speaker 3: down to like the being.

591
00:30:52,525 --> 00:30:55,805
Speaker 1: Well, that's quite a statement here. So here's your father

592
00:30:56,005 --> 00:30:58,685
Speaker 1: saying to you and your brother Andy as wow is

593
00:30:58,725 --> 00:31:00,245
Speaker 1: a young man, say it again.

594
00:31:00,165 --> 00:31:02,084
Speaker 3: Dream bold, dream big, dream the impossible.

595
00:31:02,165 --> 00:31:03,325
Speaker 1: Where where did that come from?

596
00:31:03,365 --> 00:31:03,845
Speaker 3: I don't know.

597
00:31:04,005 --> 00:31:07,364
Speaker 2: He's from my dad and uh, and so he basically uh.

598
00:31:08,165 --> 00:31:11,205
Speaker 2: But we like when we would vacation down in Florida,

599
00:31:11,805 --> 00:31:15,485
Speaker 2: we would in Panama City Beach it's called which is

600
00:31:15,525 --> 00:31:17,485
Speaker 2: like if alligators formed a society or something.

601
00:31:17,485 --> 00:31:18,205
Speaker 3: It's a crazy place.

602
00:31:18,245 --> 00:31:21,364
Speaker 2: But would we would go down literally off season and

603
00:31:21,365 --> 00:31:24,885
Speaker 2: where like these Christian youth camps would book these places

604
00:31:24,925 --> 00:31:27,565
Speaker 2: that were like bunk beds that were rotting. You could

605
00:31:27,565 --> 00:31:29,565
Speaker 2: get those for like thirty dollars a night, and we

606
00:31:29,604 --> 00:31:31,325
Speaker 2: would and on the way down we'd go to Walmart

607
00:31:31,405 --> 00:31:33,084
Speaker 2: to see how many things we could do for free,

608
00:31:33,525 --> 00:31:35,965
Speaker 2: you know. And this is how the Irwin family had fun.

609
00:31:36,365 --> 00:31:38,245
Speaker 2: So we didn't have a lot of money. So I'm

610
00:31:38,285 --> 00:31:40,565
Speaker 2: in Sunday school and the Sunday school teacher there was

611
00:31:40,604 --> 00:31:42,644
Speaker 2: this stack and many of which I still remember, of

612
00:31:42,765 --> 00:31:45,684
Speaker 2: proverbs and if you said one proverb, you got like

613
00:31:46,084 --> 00:31:48,964
Speaker 2: candy at the end if you memorized the proverb and

614
00:31:49,005 --> 00:31:51,765
Speaker 2: said it at the end. And then she said, if someone,

615
00:31:51,805 --> 00:31:55,365
Speaker 2: if any kid here as probably seven, memorizes all fifty,

616
00:31:56,045 --> 00:31:58,164
Speaker 2: I'll take them to six flags. And I was just like,

617
00:31:59,285 --> 00:32:01,445
Speaker 2: I want to go to six flags. And so I

618
00:32:01,525 --> 00:32:04,805
Speaker 2: me and this one other one other girl, we memorized

619
00:32:04,805 --> 00:32:06,844
Speaker 2: all of them and we were she took us to

620
00:32:06,925 --> 00:32:12,085
Speaker 2: six flags and uh so memorized proverbs. Yeah, like's if

621
00:32:12,084 --> 00:32:15,605
Speaker 2: you remember any of them, let's hear one the one

622
00:32:15,604 --> 00:32:18,285
Speaker 2: that I should probably do. Need to get you, Yeah,

623
00:32:18,645 --> 00:32:20,525
Speaker 2: you know, you gotta take me six flags. It's uh

624
00:32:21,084 --> 00:32:23,884
Speaker 2: uh like let let other people praise you, even strangers.

625
00:32:23,925 --> 00:32:24,845
Speaker 1: Never do it yourself.

626
00:32:24,925 --> 00:32:29,325
Speaker 2: There's one uh that sticks out. But yeah, they were

627
00:32:29,365 --> 00:32:32,005
Speaker 2: they were all in n IV. They're easy, you know. Uh,

628
00:32:32,084 --> 00:32:36,245
Speaker 2: So you learned your Bible through bribery. Six flags, man,

629
00:32:36,525 --> 00:32:39,084
Speaker 2: there's any suny school teachers out there. Just six flags works.

630
00:32:39,245 --> 00:32:41,165
Speaker 2: So but I but I actually realized that I could

631
00:32:41,245 --> 00:32:44,644
Speaker 2: remember it. And then because of my dad, you know,

632
00:32:45,245 --> 00:32:47,205
Speaker 2: I was encouraged and somewhat forced.

633
00:32:47,405 --> 00:32:49,085
Speaker 3: In hindsight, it was it was.

634
00:32:49,005 --> 00:32:52,644
Speaker 2: Great to read the Bible cover to cover, yes, multiple times,

635
00:32:52,725 --> 00:32:55,805
Speaker 2: and then scripture. There was a mentor at this place

636
00:32:55,805 --> 00:32:59,084
Speaker 2: called Worldlife Island, uh, guy named Rick that encouraged me

637
00:32:59,165 --> 00:33:03,884
Speaker 2: to to take an epistle and read it fifty times

638
00:33:03,885 --> 00:33:04,725
Speaker 2: in fifty days.

639
00:33:05,245 --> 00:33:07,404
Speaker 3: And he was like, you'll be able to quote it

640
00:33:07,445 --> 00:33:07,805
Speaker 3: at the end.

641
00:33:08,125 --> 00:33:11,445
Speaker 2: I'm like, because when you're a teenager, your mind is

642
00:33:11,485 --> 00:33:15,285
Speaker 2: a sponge. And so I memorized and it was true,

643
00:33:15,525 --> 00:33:22,405
Speaker 2: and I memorized Filippians and uh, Timothy and James and

644
00:33:22,405 --> 00:33:26,204
Speaker 2: and when I was sixteen though, the Bible just really

645
00:33:27,525 --> 00:33:29,285
Speaker 2: I went to Israel with my dad. He bought me

646
00:33:29,325 --> 00:33:32,005
Speaker 2: a camera with money he did not have. It came

647
00:33:32,005 --> 00:33:34,084
Speaker 2: in on like a Wednesday. I had no idea how

648
00:33:34,125 --> 00:33:35,725
Speaker 2: to use it, and we went to Israel to do

649
00:33:35,765 --> 00:33:37,765
Speaker 2: a documentary called In the Steps of Jesus, just me

650
00:33:37,805 --> 00:33:41,605
Speaker 2: and him. And because there was just the two of us,

651
00:33:41,645 --> 00:33:44,245
Speaker 2: we stayed in the old city of Jerusalem, this place

652
00:33:44,245 --> 00:33:46,884
Speaker 2: called christ Church, And so we were walking around the

653
00:33:46,885 --> 00:33:48,325
Speaker 2: old city at night like.

654
00:33:48,245 --> 00:33:55,485
Speaker 3: Indiana Jo ninety seven, ninety eight, I guess ninety eight.

655
00:33:55,525 --> 00:33:59,725
Speaker 3: And and so the Bible.

656
00:33:59,565 --> 00:34:02,285
Speaker 1: Leading the tour at that exact year are you. And

657
00:34:02,325 --> 00:34:04,485
Speaker 1: we saw this man with the kid with a camera

658
00:34:04,525 --> 00:34:07,525
Speaker 1: and I said, that killed and that'll never go anywhere.

659
00:34:08,725 --> 00:34:12,245
Speaker 2: But you know, again, I'm I'm raised Baptists, So in

660
00:34:12,325 --> 00:34:15,765
Speaker 2: terms of the charismatic experience, you know, it's not it's

661
00:34:15,805 --> 00:34:19,205
Speaker 2: not how I was raised. And so if I, if

662
00:34:19,205 --> 00:34:21,805
Speaker 2: I having those experiences are definitely an anomaly that I

663
00:34:21,845 --> 00:34:23,765
Speaker 2: But I remember being in the old city walking the

664
00:34:23,805 --> 00:34:27,365
Speaker 2: stations of the Cross, yes, and uh in the vidor Rosa,

665
00:34:27,965 --> 00:34:32,205
Speaker 2: and there's places that you put your hand like an indention,

666
00:34:34,605 --> 00:34:36,485
Speaker 2: uh that that you know it is said, you know

667
00:34:36,525 --> 00:34:38,964
Speaker 2: by tradition that that's where Jesus's hand would have gone

668
00:34:38,965 --> 00:34:41,845
Speaker 2: to balance himself as see as he carried the cross.

669
00:34:41,925 --> 00:34:47,205
Speaker 2: And uh, I remember putting my hand there and I

670
00:34:47,325 --> 00:34:49,245
Speaker 2: a sky swear to you, I felt like an electrical

671
00:34:49,285 --> 00:34:51,805
Speaker 2: shock in my body. It was like it was the

672
00:34:51,845 --> 00:34:56,924
Speaker 2: weirdest experience, but I felt the magic of history right,

673
00:34:57,005 --> 00:35:00,725
Speaker 2: and the Bible came to life. So these two things

674
00:35:00,765 --> 00:35:04,645
Speaker 2: merged my trips to six Flags. Uh and then and

675
00:35:04,685 --> 00:35:08,685
Speaker 2: then scripture men all of a sudden it became real.

676
00:35:08,605 --> 00:35:12,085
Speaker 1: And then also a very interesting thing. You would watch movies,

677
00:35:12,605 --> 00:35:15,685
Speaker 1: but they were edited by Yes, I was. I was.

678
00:35:16,165 --> 00:35:19,365
Speaker 2: I've seen a version of one hundred and one Dalmatians

679
00:35:19,405 --> 00:35:21,925
Speaker 2: without Kuella Deville because and it's weird.

680
00:35:22,045 --> 00:35:24,525
Speaker 3: It's like just a bunch of dogs running around.

681
00:35:26,765 --> 00:35:30,525
Speaker 1: Why did they hit it out? I don't know.

682
00:35:31,285 --> 00:35:34,885
Speaker 2: My mom had a Bible, a women's Bible study, and

683
00:35:34,925 --> 00:35:36,725
Speaker 2: we did not go to the mod to the theater

684
00:35:38,165 --> 00:35:41,005
Speaker 2: because we were raised very conservative. And what I love

685
00:35:41,005 --> 00:35:43,565
Speaker 2: about that is so my mom. The VCR was the

686
00:35:43,805 --> 00:35:48,965
Speaker 2: was the phrase. So they stacked like twenty VCRs and

687
00:35:49,005 --> 00:35:51,485
Speaker 2: they would they would dub. They would tape movies off

688
00:35:52,205 --> 00:35:55,365
Speaker 2: AMC and TMC the movie channel, the TV channels, and

689
00:35:55,405 --> 00:35:56,405
Speaker 2: they would dub the dubs.

690
00:35:56,405 --> 00:35:58,565
Speaker 3: They would dub them and then they would.

691
00:35:58,645 --> 00:36:03,085
Speaker 2: Well it was, you know, technically tyracy, but yeah, my

692
00:36:03,205 --> 00:36:05,925
Speaker 2: b my mom's Bible study, and they would just tribute

693
00:36:06,005 --> 00:36:08,925
Speaker 2: the tapes, not realizing they were breaking all the laws

694
00:36:08,925 --> 00:36:12,365
Speaker 2: of which my household depends on now and uh and

695
00:36:12,365 --> 00:36:15,045
Speaker 2: and in many instances they would edit the movies, and

696
00:36:15,085 --> 00:36:16,205
Speaker 2: that got a little out of control.

697
00:36:16,245 --> 00:36:18,844
Speaker 1: And I'm seeing, I'm seeing, I'm trying to put these

698
00:36:18,885 --> 00:36:22,645
Speaker 1: threads together. So it's a learning of scripture at a

699
00:36:22,765 --> 00:36:26,725
Speaker 1: very young age. But yet you're and your mother was

700
00:36:26,765 --> 00:36:30,925
Speaker 1: into editing film. I guess as well. But then, but

701
00:36:30,925 --> 00:36:34,485
Speaker 1: but what kind of films did you watch? Because I

702
00:36:34,485 --> 00:36:37,965
Speaker 1: think you've mentioned Frank Capro was one of your favorite filmmakers.

703
00:36:38,085 --> 00:36:40,005
Speaker 2: One of the ways that I think you could understand

704
00:36:40,005 --> 00:36:43,085
Speaker 2: one hundred years of film history is it's a conversation

705
00:36:43,525 --> 00:36:46,805
Speaker 2: between filmmakers, even if they didn't know each other, looking

706
00:36:46,845 --> 00:36:48,924
Speaker 2: at each other's work, building on each other's work.

707
00:36:49,485 --> 00:36:50,605
Speaker 3: So I think if you want.

708
00:36:50,405 --> 00:36:53,925
Speaker 2: To be a director or or or a writer producer,

709
00:36:54,325 --> 00:36:56,365
Speaker 2: it's very important. Like if you look at a filmmaker

710
00:36:56,405 --> 00:36:59,405
Speaker 2: like Tarantino, it's obvious that he's obsessed with cinema and

711
00:36:59,445 --> 00:37:01,125
Speaker 2: the history of cinema, and that's a big part of

712
00:37:01,165 --> 00:37:01,485
Speaker 2: his work.

713
00:37:02,045 --> 00:37:04,245
Speaker 1: And so once upon a time in Hollywood.

714
00:37:04,365 --> 00:37:06,285
Speaker 3: Yeah, and and he cret cites.

715
00:37:06,405 --> 00:37:09,565
Speaker 2: You know, Picasso said, good artist, copy, great artists steel

716
00:37:09,645 --> 00:37:10,925
Speaker 2: and so you have.

717
00:37:10,925 --> 00:37:12,205
Speaker 3: To absorb a bunch of work.

718
00:37:12,325 --> 00:37:14,845
Speaker 1: You were a quote with she you should put a

719
00:37:14,845 --> 00:37:16,605
Speaker 1: book out with all of your quotes.

720
00:37:16,325 --> 00:37:18,605
Speaker 2: Because I re memorized those cards and went to six Flights.

721
00:37:19,245 --> 00:37:23,445
Speaker 2: But basically, so we didn't watch modern films. I wasn't

722
00:37:23,445 --> 00:37:27,245
Speaker 2: allowed to go to the theater, but we watched. But

723
00:37:27,325 --> 00:37:30,205
Speaker 2: I had this this film history. So it was a

724
00:37:30,205 --> 00:37:33,925
Speaker 2: ton of John Ford and John Wayne and like the

725
00:37:34,005 --> 00:37:39,925
Speaker 2: Old Being Being Crosby, Bob Hope, Road Comedies and the

726
00:37:39,965 --> 00:37:45,125
Speaker 2: greats Casablanca and Citizen Kane and and uh and you

727
00:37:45,165 --> 00:37:47,884
Speaker 2: know been Her and Lawrence of Arabia and uh.

728
00:37:48,285 --> 00:37:51,325
Speaker 1: What would you say if you picked like four films

729
00:37:51,565 --> 00:37:54,005
Speaker 1: that you say, these are my favorite films that I

730
00:37:54,245 --> 00:37:56,365
Speaker 1: just love to watch over and over and maybe even

731
00:37:56,725 --> 00:37:58,965
Speaker 1: inspire me to this day. Would it be the ones

732
00:37:58,965 --> 00:37:59,965
Speaker 1: you've mentioned or others?

733
00:38:00,085 --> 00:38:03,845
Speaker 2: No, I think as I as I as I grew.

734
00:38:04,285 --> 00:38:06,325
Speaker 3: And then Capra became a massive influence.

735
00:38:06,565 --> 00:38:09,525
Speaker 2: The films of Frank Caepra, the the optimism of Frank Capra.

736
00:38:10,045 --> 00:38:13,405
Speaker 3: Mister Smith goes to Washington, of course it's on a life.

737
00:38:14,165 --> 00:38:16,125
Speaker 2: But even his com you know, he did a comedy art,

738
00:38:16,125 --> 00:38:18,805
Speaker 2: Stinking Old lace that I love the again or like

739
00:38:19,525 --> 00:38:21,885
Speaker 2: as a movie, not a Kaepra movie, but his girl Friday,

740
00:38:21,925 --> 00:38:24,525
Speaker 2: that there was a certain hasten the rhythm of dialogue

741
00:38:24,805 --> 00:38:27,805
Speaker 2: that you see influences Sorkin for instance. Again, so you

742
00:38:27,845 --> 00:38:32,085
Speaker 2: just see the conversation of filmmakers. So then when I

743
00:38:32,125 --> 00:38:35,325
Speaker 2: was sixteen, my dad took me to the really re

744
00:38:35,325 --> 00:38:38,045
Speaker 2: release of Star Wars in theaters when they added a

745
00:38:38,045 --> 00:38:40,965
Speaker 2: bunch of v effects and stuff, and that was a

746
00:38:41,045 --> 00:38:44,725
Speaker 2: moment for me. And then I started getting obsessed with

747
00:38:44,765 --> 00:38:50,685
Speaker 2: modern films and my films. I'm a very I like epic,

748
00:38:50,885 --> 00:38:55,765
Speaker 2: event worthy movies, I do, and so I love you know,

749
00:38:56,845 --> 00:38:59,885
Speaker 2: Braveheart to me is if I was locked on an

750
00:38:59,885 --> 00:39:01,485
Speaker 2: island for the rest of my life or something with

751
00:39:01,525 --> 00:39:04,645
Speaker 2: one movie, it would probably be my favorite. Brave Heart.

752
00:39:05,605 --> 00:39:08,085
Speaker 2: It's like chicken soup for the soul. And I think

753
00:39:08,125 --> 00:39:11,765
Speaker 2: that Randall uh and mel who I know, you know,

754
00:39:11,845 --> 00:39:15,085
Speaker 2: both of them did an unbelievable and.

755
00:39:15,045 --> 00:39:17,085
Speaker 1: They're working together on the passionate sequels.

756
00:39:17,165 --> 00:39:19,205
Speaker 3: Yeah, and they're they're they're a dynamic duo.

757
00:39:20,085 --> 00:39:20,285
Speaker 1: You know.

758
00:39:20,285 --> 00:39:22,885
Speaker 2: They also did like the movie We Were Soldiers Together,

759
00:39:23,165 --> 00:39:24,805
Speaker 2: which is fantastic.

760
00:39:24,725 --> 00:39:26,285
Speaker 1: And Randall actually directed that.

761
00:39:27,725 --> 00:39:28,725
Speaker 3: And uh and.

762
00:39:28,725 --> 00:39:32,525
Speaker 2: So you know Braveheart, the Original Gladiator. I also feel

763
00:39:32,525 --> 00:39:36,125
Speaker 2: like the original Fellowship of the Ring was such a

764
00:39:36,285 --> 00:39:37,725
Speaker 2: I remember the theater I was in.

765
00:39:37,805 --> 00:39:39,924
Speaker 3: I remember the seat in the theater that I was in.

766
00:39:40,525 --> 00:39:43,045
Speaker 2: But I also love like I watched with my daughter,

767
00:39:43,325 --> 00:39:48,045
Speaker 2: Uh you know, uh Some Dog Millionaire and uh, you know,

768
00:39:48,085 --> 00:39:50,884
Speaker 2: I love how Danny Boyle's optimism. Yeah, you know kind

769
00:39:50,885 --> 00:39:54,125
Speaker 2: of gets into that movie. Uh, the King's speech, I love.

770
00:39:54,245 --> 00:39:55,325
Speaker 2: There's a lot of movies that I.

771
00:39:55,565 --> 00:39:59,405
Speaker 1: So wrapping this up, like, let's say there's a young

772
00:39:59,485 --> 00:40:02,245
Speaker 1: John Irwin out there, and maybe they're a filmmaker, maybe

773
00:40:02,285 --> 00:40:06,725
Speaker 1: they're a musician, maybe they're an artist, maybe their preacher,

774
00:40:07,765 --> 00:40:13,245
Speaker 1: but they they want to express their faith, you know,

775
00:40:13,405 --> 00:40:17,685
Speaker 1: in the future. They they want to follow that saying

776
00:40:17,765 --> 00:40:18,925
Speaker 1: of your father, Hank.

777
00:40:19,005 --> 00:40:20,884
Speaker 3: You know, was it dream bohold dream big dream?

778
00:40:21,125 --> 00:40:24,805
Speaker 1: Yeah, So what advice would you give to them to

779
00:40:25,765 --> 00:40:28,805
Speaker 1: see maybe those dreams come true?

780
00:40:29,445 --> 00:40:34,885
Speaker 3: That's a great question. To compare it to the story

781
00:40:34,885 --> 00:40:35,405
Speaker 3: of David.

782
00:40:36,845 --> 00:40:41,445
Speaker 2: I think a lot of us overestimate wildly what we

783
00:40:41,445 --> 00:40:41,765
Speaker 2: can do.

784
00:40:41,805 --> 00:40:42,645
Speaker 3: In the short term.

785
00:40:43,005 --> 00:40:45,205
Speaker 2: We'll have a new Yer's resolution and I'm going to

786
00:40:45,245 --> 00:40:47,885
Speaker 2: lose forty pounds this month or something, and then we

787
00:40:48,445 --> 00:40:53,805
Speaker 2: underestimate what we can do in the long term with

788
00:40:53,845 --> 00:40:57,925
Speaker 2: a little bit of consistency. Yes, and and and and

789
00:40:57,965 --> 00:41:02,085
Speaker 2: it's just I like this this quote, success is long

790
00:41:02,125 --> 00:41:03,405
Speaker 2: obedience in the same faction.

791
00:41:04,205 --> 00:41:07,925
Speaker 3: And I think that I liked the story.

792
00:41:07,685 --> 00:41:10,165
Speaker 2: Of David from the time that he was anointed to

793
00:41:10,245 --> 00:41:12,285
Speaker 2: the time there was actually a crown on his head.

794
00:41:12,645 --> 00:41:15,365
Speaker 3: It was like fifteen years. A lot of hardship in

795
00:41:15,365 --> 00:41:15,765
Speaker 3: those year.

796
00:41:15,845 --> 00:41:21,245
Speaker 2: Yes, And I think for me, I wrote a script

797
00:41:21,365 --> 00:41:24,565
Speaker 2: to David in twenty twelve.

798
00:41:25,125 --> 00:41:27,405
Speaker 3: As a movie. I don't know if it was any good.

799
00:41:27,445 --> 00:41:28,245
Speaker 3: I gotta go read it again.

800
00:41:28,285 --> 00:41:33,765
Speaker 2: But I needed the growth, you know, and I needed

801
00:41:33,805 --> 00:41:38,165
Speaker 2: to try to you know, in faith film, there's been

802
00:41:38,205 --> 00:41:41,365
Speaker 2: we call it the gap between the industry and the audience,

803
00:41:41,405 --> 00:41:43,285
Speaker 2: in the sense that you have things that are authentic

804
00:41:43,365 --> 00:41:45,765
Speaker 2: to the audience but very poorly made, and you have

805
00:41:45,765 --> 00:41:48,885
Speaker 2: things that are very well made but completely an authentic

806
00:41:48,885 --> 00:41:51,645
Speaker 2: and sometimes a betrayal to the audience. And we've been

807
00:41:51,685 --> 00:41:55,085
Speaker 2: trying to close that gap by just trying to get

808
00:41:55,125 --> 00:41:56,884
Speaker 2: better and better at what we do. You know, Steve

809
00:41:56,925 --> 00:41:59,285
Speaker 2: Martin said to try to be undeniably good, you know,

810
00:41:59,805 --> 00:42:03,325
Speaker 2: and that takes a long time. And so what I

811
00:42:03,325 --> 00:42:06,205
Speaker 2: would say is, don't you know, if there's young filmmaker

812
00:42:06,205 --> 00:42:09,125
Speaker 2: out there that wants to, as Denzel Washington said, you know,

813
00:42:09,125 --> 00:42:10,645
Speaker 2: if you want what I have, then do what I did.

814
00:42:12,565 --> 00:42:16,884
Speaker 2: You know, it takes a long time, and it's worth it.

815
00:42:18,045 --> 00:42:23,005
Speaker 2: And so to me, it's like just put one foot

816
00:42:23,085 --> 00:42:25,205
Speaker 2: right in front of the other. And if you can

817
00:42:25,245 --> 00:42:29,165
Speaker 2: combine in my mind, the two great virtues that are

818
00:42:29,205 --> 00:42:31,725
Speaker 2: kind of under celebrated. If you can combine curiosity, so

819
00:42:31,765 --> 00:42:35,445
Speaker 2: you're learning all the time, yes with pain tolerance, and

820
00:42:35,525 --> 00:42:37,485
Speaker 2: just never give up and outlast.

821
00:42:37,045 --> 00:42:39,285
Speaker 3: Everybody around you. Eventually you'll break through.

822
00:42:39,365 --> 00:42:41,725
Speaker 2: When you break through, it's not going to be the

823
00:42:41,765 --> 00:42:46,085
Speaker 2: way you thought it would happen, and it's going to

824
00:42:46,125 --> 00:42:49,725
Speaker 2: take a whole lot longer than you think, but it's

825
00:42:49,765 --> 00:42:52,445
Speaker 2: worth it. And so and I think also I found

826
00:42:52,485 --> 00:42:56,725
Speaker 2: that don't put your identity in your work. You know,

827
00:42:56,885 --> 00:43:00,805
Speaker 2: your identity has to be in in in your relationship

828
00:43:01,525 --> 00:43:06,885
Speaker 2: to the Lord, and and just try to chase growth,

829
00:43:07,165 --> 00:43:09,884
Speaker 2: not success, try to get better at what you do.

830
00:43:10,365 --> 00:43:12,925
Speaker 2: I found that success has its own set of problems

831
00:43:13,205 --> 00:43:16,285
Speaker 2: that people don't realize. So just if you can just

832
00:43:16,445 --> 00:43:18,405
Speaker 2: every day, get a little better at what you do,

833
00:43:18,925 --> 00:43:25,165
Speaker 2: and be dedicated and disciplined to improvement. Eventually you'll you'll

834
00:43:25,205 --> 00:43:28,565
Speaker 2: break out and break through. And you know, one of

835
00:43:28,605 --> 00:43:31,285
Speaker 2: the other things that my dad said to me, which

836
00:43:31,685 --> 00:43:33,725
Speaker 2: was profound, I didn't believe it when he said it,

837
00:43:34,445 --> 00:43:36,365
Speaker 2: but he said, hey, if you love this thing, this

838
00:43:36,485 --> 00:43:38,885
Speaker 2: camera that I bought you, give it twenty years, and

839
00:43:38,965 --> 00:43:40,005
Speaker 2: twenty years you'll be it.

840
00:43:40,045 --> 00:43:41,765
Speaker 3: And very few people say.

841
00:43:43,925 --> 00:43:44,005
Speaker 1: So.

842
00:43:44,285 --> 00:43:46,885
Speaker 2: From the time he gave it to me to the

843
00:43:46,925 --> 00:43:49,805
Speaker 2: breakout hit, I can only imagine was almost exactly how

844
00:43:50,005 --> 00:43:53,925
Speaker 2: interesting and so and so I think that that people

845
00:43:53,965 --> 00:43:54,925
Speaker 2: don't think of it that way.

846
00:43:55,085 --> 00:43:57,085
Speaker 3: They can That's what No, I don't.

847
00:43:57,525 --> 00:44:01,285
Speaker 2: But but you know, I think the idea of like,

848
00:44:01,845 --> 00:44:04,605
Speaker 2: if you what I tell young filmmakers is if there's

849
00:44:06,005 --> 00:44:12,005
Speaker 2: the entertainment as an industry is hyper competitive, blood sport, crazy,

850
00:44:12,765 --> 00:44:15,445
Speaker 2: but what we get to do is amazing in it

851
00:44:15,565 --> 00:44:18,325
Speaker 2: and so if you it's undeniably so yeah and so

852
00:44:18,405 --> 00:44:21,125
Speaker 2: and so if you I tell people, if you can

853
00:44:21,165 --> 00:44:23,965
Speaker 2: do anything else and be happy, you should probably do that.

854
00:44:25,245 --> 00:44:26,765
Speaker 2: I'm sure you say the same thing about to people

855
00:44:26,765 --> 00:44:29,125
Speaker 2: that want to be a pastor. But if almost if

856
00:44:29,165 --> 00:44:32,285
Speaker 2: you can't not do it. If you are compelled, then

857
00:44:32,325 --> 00:44:34,925
Speaker 2: that's a that's a signature that maybe you're called to

858
00:44:34,925 --> 00:44:36,685
Speaker 2: do it. And if you're called to do it, the

859
00:44:36,765 --> 00:44:40,285
Speaker 2: key is just never ever, ever, ever give up and

860
00:44:40,405 --> 00:44:43,485
Speaker 2: constantly learn. And if you can do both those things

861
00:44:43,845 --> 00:44:48,325
Speaker 2: over a prolonged period of time, eventually you'll your dreams

862
00:44:48,325 --> 00:44:51,325
Speaker 2: will come true, just in a in a way that

863
00:44:51,325 --> 00:44:53,805
Speaker 2: that that you don't expect and in a way that

864
00:44:53,805 --> 00:44:55,085
Speaker 2: will take a lot longer than anything.

865
00:44:55,165 --> 00:44:55,404
Speaker 3: Wow.

866
00:44:55,485 --> 00:44:58,765
Speaker 1: Great advice from John Well. John, thanks for taking time

867
00:44:58,805 --> 00:45:02,205
Speaker 1: to talk about this. Congratulations on the House of David.

868
00:45:03,245 --> 00:45:06,165
Speaker 1: Go out to the Amazon Prime video platform and start

869
00:45:06,165 --> 00:45:08,885
Speaker 1: watching it now. You're going to love it. Thanks again,

870
00:45:09,085 --> 00:45:11,925
Speaker 1: Thank you. Hey everybody, thanks for listening to my podcast.

871
00:45:12,005 --> 00:45:14,325
Speaker 1: Before you go, I wanted to let you know about

872
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Speaker 1: the important work we're doing here at Harvest. You know,

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Speaker 1: we've had the same goal these last fifty years, which

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Speaker 1: is simply this, we want to know God and we

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Speaker 1: want to make him known, and we do that in

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Speaker 1: a lot of ways documentary films, animation, radio, television, large

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Speaker 1: scale evangelistic events and more. If you want to be

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Speaker 1: a part of what we're doing to fulfill the great commission,

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Speaker 1: you can support us with whatever you can give at

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Speaker 1: harvest dot org slash donate again, that's harvest dot org

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Speaker 1: slash donate and thanks so much