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Speaker 1: Life Audio.

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Speaker 2: Build Different is a production of the American Association of

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Speaker 2: Christian Counselors. To support this podcast and learn how you

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Speaker 2: people everywhere, just go to aaccfoundation.org. Again, that's aaccfoundation.org. Hey everybody,

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Speaker 2: welcome back into the Build Different podcast. I'll be your

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Speaker 2: host today, Dr. Zach Clinton, and I just want to

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Speaker 2: begin by thanking you so much for taking the time

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Speaker 2: I read them, I appreciate your feedback, and I always

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Speaker 2: love hearing how these conversations are impacting your life.

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Speaker 1: I also want you to know today before we begin.

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Speaker 2: that Built Different is proudly sponsored by Liberty University. Liberty

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Speaker 2: University has impacted my life greatly. My friend, I'm a

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Speaker 2: graduate and a big believer... in what Liberty University has

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Speaker 1: The vision of Dr.

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Speaker 2: Jerry Falwell Sr. is alive and well... and I believe

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Speaker 2: the years... One thing has never changed. That's our mission

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Speaker 2: to train champions for Christ, whether on campus, online, or

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Speaker 2: around the world. All you have to do is go

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Speaker 2: to liberty.edu. Again, that's www.liberty.edu forward slash built different to

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Speaker 2: start your journey to personal growth and professional fulfillment today.

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Speaker 2: All right, my friend, let's dive into today's conversation with

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Speaker 2: a very special guest. Hello everybody, welcome back in to

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Speaker 2: the Build Different Podcast. As always, I'll be your host today, Dr.

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Speaker 2: Zach Clinton. Dr.

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Speaker 3: Tim Clinton.

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Speaker 1: It's always good to have you guys here with us.

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Speaker 2: We're grateful because we're here in Spring Hill, Tennessee, a

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Speaker 2: couple miles outside of Nashville and Franklin, if you've heard

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Speaker 2: of those cities.

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Speaker 3: Nice place.

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Speaker 2: Beautiful place at the Bridge Church with the lead pastor,

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Speaker 2: Ian Simpkins. Ian is a guy who, before we pressed record,

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Speaker 2: I was just letting you know, has really made a

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Speaker 2: profound impact on my life, just even with the content

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Speaker 2: that he posts through social media and more, but God's

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Speaker 2: doing something special through him here in his leadership, but

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Speaker 2: also in his book writing ability because he has a

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Speaker 2: book that's out and coming out very.

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Speaker 1: Soon, or is it out by now?

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Speaker 4: It's out September 29th.

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Speaker 2: September 29th, coming out soon. Every Table and Altar, Reclaiming

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Speaker 2: Connection in a World of Division, Distraction, and Loneliness. Ian,

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Speaker 2: thank you for welcoming us into the.

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Speaker 4: Church, my friend. My gosh, thanks for having me. I'm honored.

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Speaker 2: Hey, this is going to be a great conversation because, again,

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Speaker 2: in the world of psychology— And really at the intersection

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Speaker 2: of mental health and ministry, I think there's no greater

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Speaker 2: conversation to have in the cultural moment that we find

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Speaker 2: ourself in than around a table. It's so symbolic of

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Speaker 2: a lot of different things. But I think before we

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Speaker 2: dive into the meat of the conversation, we're here at

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Speaker 2: the Bridge Church. We're walking around the walls. God's clearly

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Speaker 2: doing something special in this place. I'd love to hear

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Speaker 2: from you. Just what are you most excited about that's

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Speaker 2: going on in the congregation, but maybe even more so

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Speaker 2: in the community?

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Speaker 3: Oh, man.

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Speaker 4: First off, I would say the bridge was awesome well

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Speaker 4: before I got here. We moved down from Chicago in

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Speaker 4: March of 21. And when we were interviewing with the

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Speaker 4: leadership of the bridge, we were just blown away by

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Speaker 4: what God was already doing then. So whenever people on

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Speaker 4: a Sunday want to brag to me about why they

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Speaker 4: love the church, I'm like, that's why I love it too.

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Speaker 4: It was awesome well before we got here. So I

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Speaker 4: got to give all the credit in the world to

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Speaker 4: the culture and the leadership that was established there. That

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Speaker 4: in many ways is what drew my wife and I

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Speaker 4: here in the first place. I was telling you all

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Speaker 4: off camera a bit, Lord's doing something like really special

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Speaker 4: in our local prisons right now. He's doing something really

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Speaker 4: special in the next generation. You walked past a wall

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Speaker 4: right here. That's our baptism wall. Like we're just seeing

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Speaker 4: just a wild, a wild amount of baptism the last

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Speaker 4: couple of years. And out of those stories, we're just learning,

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Speaker 4: you know, all of the subtext of what brought people

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Speaker 4: to those moments. It's just been really, really special. It's

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Speaker 4: the kind of thing, I often tell our leaders, we

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Speaker 4: couldn't take credit for if we wanted to. That to me,

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Speaker 4: in a lot of ways, is kind of the sweet spot.

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Speaker 4: When someone says, man, it's really cool that you're experiencing this,

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Speaker 4: I'm like, if you only knew. We couldn't even take

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Speaker 4: credit for that kind of thing if we wanted to.

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Speaker 4: I'm praying the Lord continues to stretch us in that regard.

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Speaker 3: A lot of people are talking about how faith is back.

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Speaker 3: Bible sales going through the roof. You've got Today's generation

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Speaker 3: is showing up in church. Are you seeing that?

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Speaker 4: 100%.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's amazing. Fox News reported not long ago that

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Speaker 3: young men, what, some 42% of those under the age

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Speaker 3: of 30 are saying that their faith is important in

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Speaker 3: their everyday life.

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Speaker 4: I saw that, yeah.

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Speaker 3: You know that? And it's pretty, this, I guess, community,

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Speaker 3: this belonging piece more. What is it at the core

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Speaker 3: of all of it you think that's just driving people

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Speaker 3: to a different place?

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Speaker 4: I mean, beside the Holy Spirit, I mean, that would

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Speaker 4: be my first. I know that's kind of a Jesus juke,

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Speaker 4: but that is my. But I'm just thinking of an

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Speaker 4: interaction I had with a guy recently. He came up

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Speaker 4: to me on a Sunday in the lobby. He beelined

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Speaker 4: it for me, and he said, hey, first off, I'm

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Speaker 4: not a Christian. I was like, all right. And he's like, no, seriously,

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Speaker 4: I don't buy any of this. And I go, okay.

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Speaker 4: And he goes, but I'm new to town, and I

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Speaker 4: know that I desperately need community. And he goes, and

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Speaker 4: you all seem normal. he's like can i keep coming

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Speaker 4: back here i was like welcome aboard man so like

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Speaker 4: even just that sense of he and especially in middle

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Speaker 4: tennessee there are so many transplants people are longing for

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Speaker 4: like not surface level friendships but like meaningful community and

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Speaker 4: i mentioned a fair amount in the book i think

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Speaker 4: belonging is a thing that's kind of beneath the thing

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Speaker 4: i think tribalism in a lot of ways is sort

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Speaker 4: of a a parody of belonging and i think people

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Speaker 4: are longing for like a community they can really link

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Speaker 4: arms with. So in a lot of ways, we're hearing

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Speaker 4: a lot of things like that, where people are saying,

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Speaker 4: I'm not quite sure yet, or I still have questions.

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Speaker 4: I still have doubts, but there seems to be something

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Speaker 4: special about this particular community. I'd like to know more.

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Speaker 4: And so that leading with curiosity, which I give that

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Speaker 4: guy a lot of credit, to show up by yourself

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Speaker 4: in a Roomful of strange people that you don't know.

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Speaker 4: That's really tough. And to tell me.

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Speaker 3: And to come up to you.

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Speaker 4: I want you to know I'm not signing on the

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Speaker 4: dotted line yet.

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Speaker 1: I'm not bought in.

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Speaker 4: I would like to come back. And I'm like, man,

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Speaker 4: if that's what the Lord is doing, I told our staff,

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Speaker 4: what an opportunity for us to model kingdom community in

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Speaker 4: a way that is resonating with people.

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Speaker 2: What I've noticed about you and your leadership, even just

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Speaker 2: from watching from afar, it reminds me, one theologian said

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Speaker 2: that the West sometimes is kind of identified as being

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Speaker 2: 3,000 Bible verses overweight. We place such an emphasis on

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Speaker 2: what Jesus said, know a lot about him, but we

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Speaker 2: don't know him intimately, and we don't place enough of

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Speaker 2: an emphasis on how Jesus lived. And that's why I

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Speaker 2: think the book, Every Table and Altar, is such an amazing–

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Speaker 2: it's an amazing imagery first and foremost because– everything can

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Speaker 2: happen around a table. Like that's where we can be formed.

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Speaker 2: And it's this concept that you guys make it very community-based,

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Speaker 2: very community-focused, even for you to be out in the

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Speaker 2: halls of your church talking to people, for them to

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Speaker 2: even have the opportunity to come up to you to

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Speaker 2: say how they honestly feel.

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Speaker 1: That speaks volumes in and of itself. So let's start here.

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Speaker 1: Why the table, Ian?

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Speaker 4: You know, when I first moved to town, I had

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Speaker 4: a really wise mentor that said, hey, Nashville is different

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Speaker 4: than Chicago, and you're going to come in.

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Speaker 3: Just a little bit.

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Speaker 4: Just a little bit, which I knew to a degree.

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Speaker 4: If we talk for more than 10 minutes, you'll hear

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Speaker 4: me mention mentors a lot because I am the direct

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Speaker 4: product of some wise men over the course of 20

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Speaker 4: years who have not only guided and directed but saw

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Speaker 4: the train wreck before I could. He just gave a

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Speaker 4: lot of wisdom. He said, you're going to want to

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Speaker 4: come in, guns a-blazin', changing things day one. He said,

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Speaker 4: I encourage you to spend a lot of time just

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Speaker 4: really listening to people, like listening to their joys and

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Speaker 4: their pains. And so I spent probably the first year

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Speaker 4: or so, I mean, we changed some things, but really

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Speaker 4: putting an emphasis on just listening, not only to people

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Speaker 4: in our church, but our community. And I kept hearing

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Speaker 4: three themes emerge. And it's the subtitle of the book, division, distraction, loneliness.

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Speaker 4: There was this division piece, a lot of just like

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Speaker 4: us versus them, just kind of like enemy making from

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Speaker 4: the people that don't look or talk or think or vote.

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Speaker 4: just like I do the distraction piece. Everyone was lamenting

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Speaker 4: how I'm like, I'm just, you know, my screen time

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Speaker 4: is six hours a day and I don't, the TV's

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Speaker 4: always on and I feel like I'm missing my, you know,

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Speaker 4: my kid's childhood. And then the loneliness thing, which I'm

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Speaker 4: sure you guys are seeing even more than I am.

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Speaker 4: Like there's just a, yeah, it really is. And a

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Speaker 4: lot of times it's people who are in crowds all

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Speaker 4: the time, but feel like deeply unknown. And so it

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Speaker 4: was kind of out of that bedrock of noticing these

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Speaker 4: three things, these three themes over and over again, Being

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Speaker 4: the new guy in town, our leadership was really eager

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Speaker 4: to kind of articulate, what is our new kind of

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Speaker 4: mission and vision as a church? And this motif, this

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Speaker 4: picture of the table just kind of kept bubbling to

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Speaker 4: the surface for me. And so I got to give

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Speaker 4: a lot of props to our elders because I know

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Speaker 4: when they were, you know, seeking like, what's our new vision?

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Speaker 4: And I came back and said, what about the table?

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Speaker 4: They were like, what now? Like, how is that? Like

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Speaker 4: a measurable vision for the future of our church. And

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Speaker 4: so to see them even go from like unsure to

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Speaker 4: skeptical to interested to like sold out. Like I got

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Speaker 4: a text from an elder a couple weeks ago who said, brother,

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Speaker 4: I'm convinced that the table is how the Lord is

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Speaker 4: going to use me for the next 20 years of

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Speaker 4: my life. And we could talk countless stories of how

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Speaker 4: God is using him in his context. Hey, my friend.

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Speaker 2: Before we jump back into today's conversation, I just want

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Speaker 2: to remind you that Built Different is proudly sponsored by

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Speaker 2: Liberty University. This partnership means a lot to me personally.

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Speaker 2: You know, I was born and raised in Lynchburg, Virginia,

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Speaker 2: and I've watched Liberty grow tremendously over the years, but

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Speaker 2: I've also experienced firsthand the impact this university can have

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Speaker 2: on a life. I graduated from Liberty. I played four

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Speaker 2: years of Division I baseball here. I met some of

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Speaker 2: my closest friends and most influential mentors here.

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Speaker 1: I met my wife, Evelyn, here.

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Speaker 2: And most importantly, Liberty became part of the story God

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Speaker 2: used to deepen my relationship with Jesus Christ. Today, I

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Speaker 2: have the privilege of continuing that story by serving Liberty

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Speaker 2: Athletics and investing in the lives and mental health of

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Speaker 2: our student athletes. That's why I believe so deeply in

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Speaker 2: Liberty's mission to train champions for Christ. With more than

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Speaker 2: 16,000 residential students and 600 online programs, Liberty gives you

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Speaker 2: the opportunity to pursue your education alongside faculty who want

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Speaker 2: to help equip you for your calling on campus, online,

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Speaker 2: and around the world. To learn more and to take

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Speaker 2: that next step, all you have to do is go

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Speaker 2: to liberty.edu forward slash built different today.

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Speaker 4: I remember.

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Speaker 3: Looking at some research around kids and I was trying to,

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Speaker 3: what helps shape emotionally healthy kids?

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: And there were a couple of factors that kept showing

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Speaker 3: up in the literature. Mm-hmm. And what are the discriminating factors?

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Speaker 3: One was whether or not mom and dad know the

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Speaker 3: name of their child's teacher. Mm-hmm. Second thing, whether or

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Speaker 3: not they ate dinner together.

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Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.

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Speaker 3: And I thought, those two things say something about that

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Speaker 3: family more than anything. It says that what? They intentionally

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Speaker 3: do stuff that connects them and their world together.

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Speaker 4: That's right.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's not about the food.

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Speaker 4: That's right.

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Speaker 3: Something's taking place at the table.

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Speaker 4: 100%.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, let's press into that because this becomes really, really critical.

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Speaker 3: And I think everybody, you hear the results of the

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Speaker 3: research around eating dinner together. Everybody knows if you eat

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Speaker 3: dinner together, it's important. What they're finding is the more

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Speaker 3: you eat dinner together, the more healthy or the better

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Speaker 3: things are. And it really doesn't really plateau, you know

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Speaker 3: what I mean? Especially for teenagers in particular. So, I mean,

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Speaker 3: go into there and connect our dots to then spiritually

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Speaker 3: how this all wires together for us.

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Speaker 4: 100%. The data is fascinating and kind of overwhelming. Like

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Speaker 4: I'm almost embarrassed that I didn't see it sooner because

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Speaker 4: a lot of these are things like my parents valued

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Speaker 4: as a kid, that when I was a kid that

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Speaker 4: I don't really think I appreciated. But like it's not

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Speaker 4: just at an emotional level. There's an article I read

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Speaker 4: in The Atlantic that talked about lowering child obesity, suicidal ideation,

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Speaker 4: language development, academic success. Number one factor this particular article

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Speaker 4: was asserting was frequent family dinners. But of course you

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Speaker 4: read that and you think, well, that can't just be it.

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Speaker 4: Surely it has to do with climate and outside activity

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Speaker 4: and sports. I'm sure all of those play a factor.

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Speaker 4: But I just kept stumbling upon reputable research that said, no,

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Speaker 4: this very simple, arguably ancient practice of incarnational presence together

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Speaker 4: actually has more significance than just spiritual. I think oftentimes,

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Speaker 4: especially in churches, things get categorized as spiritual and then

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Speaker 4: the rest of life. You're like, oh, I actually think

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Speaker 4: the way that we are designed and the way that

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Speaker 4: scripture instructs us to live benefits both. And I think

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Speaker 4: that's really compelling, particularly in a context where we have

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Speaker 4: a number of skeptics where I'll say, listen, you might

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Speaker 4: not be sold out on Jesus yet. Let me just

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Speaker 4: read you the data. And do you want like a

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Speaker 4: strong marriage? Do you want like emotionally resilient children? Do

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Speaker 4: you want to like, it's just, it is fascinating to me.

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Speaker 4: I mean, you know, the average dinner time 60 years

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Speaker 4: ago was like 90 minutes. And today it's less than 12. Like,

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Speaker 4: there really is a crisis of the table right now.

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Speaker 4: And we don't talk.

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Speaker 3: We don't talk.

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Speaker 2: Not at all.

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Speaker 3: It's like, Papa, I didn't know that about you.

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Speaker 4: That's exactly right.

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Speaker 3: And when did it happen? Oh, around the table.

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Speaker 4: Exactly. 100%.

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Speaker 3: Stories come up.

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Speaker 4: Stories, of course.

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Speaker 3: It was just happening last week. A bunch of people

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Speaker 3: around the table. And it was just like they were

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Speaker 3: going off.

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Speaker 4: Yes.

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Speaker 3: Everybody just having a ball. And I just kept spurring

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Speaker 3: it and going deeper. And it was like laughing.

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Speaker 4: Of course.

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Speaker 3: It was just amazing. Mm-hmm.

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Speaker 4: I think we're going to see a resurgence too because

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Speaker 4: I think everyone's talking about AI right now, and I

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Speaker 4: think as more of the internet becomes artificial, more people

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Speaker 4: are going to crave what's authentic. I think as AI

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Speaker 4: becomes more sophisticated, we're going to become less convinced that

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Speaker 4: we can believe anything that we see on a screen.

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Speaker 4: It's already kind of happening.

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Speaker 3: That's right. You can't even really believe it.

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Speaker 4: I already feel like a– I'm like I don't even– I.

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Speaker 3: Don't know how to tell.

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Speaker 1: He shows me videos all the time, and I'm like, Pops,

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Speaker 1: that's AI.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: It's already happening. We have a young staff. He's like, yeah,

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Speaker 4: look at this. Come on, Ed.

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Speaker 1: Deer cannot type, Dad.

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Speaker 4: That's the first tell. But I think as more of

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Speaker 4: that happens, the more people– and I think the church

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Speaker 4: has a really beautiful, unique opportunity to say we're going

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Speaker 4: to provide incarnational spaces for meaningful connection that isn't just–

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Speaker 4: Or two strangers arguing and thought to yourself, I don't

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Speaker 4: think this is moving the needle at all. It's not

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Speaker 4: a conversation.

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Speaker 3: Digital courage, but they lack.

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Speaker 4: Exactly. This, I think, is where strangers become family and

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Speaker 4: enemies become friends. And I think that's part of what

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Speaker 4: the gospel does.

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Speaker 2: It is. I'm thinking about the three things that you

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Speaker 2: break it down. Reclaiming connection in a world of number

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Speaker 2: one is division.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Because, I mean, let's just be honest. I think we

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Speaker 2: live in some very divided times. Yes, I feel like

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Speaker 2: there is this spirit of unity that's rising and this

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Speaker 2: hunger for holiness and maybe this thirst for truth that

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Speaker 2: we're seeing in terms of revival across our country. But

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Speaker 2: there is still a lot of division. I'm thinking of

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Speaker 2: whether it's the racial mess that we've seen constantly throughout

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Speaker 2: the years, the rash shootings, I mean, the wars. It's

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Speaker 2: just divided all the time everywhere we look in. But

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Speaker 2: I'm thinking about something that I learned very quickly today.

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Speaker 2: In my counseling work, in my master's program, one of

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Speaker 2: the first lines that I read in a book that was,

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Speaker 2: you know, we talk a lot about empathy in psychology,

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Speaker 2: but it was the greatest form of empathy is inquiry.

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Speaker 2: We make so many assumptions about other people. We think

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Speaker 2: we have the entire story that we never get beneath

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Speaker 2: the story into the struggle. So stop making assumptions and

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Speaker 2: start asking questions. I'm interested, though, how around a table,

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Speaker 2: when we're talking about forming and having meaningful dialogue, can

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Speaker 2: we as believers still– hold to our convictions without spewing contempt?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that's a brilliant question because that often

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Speaker 4: is the narrative that if I show genuine curiosity, I'm

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Speaker 4: somehow being soft in my convictions. And I don't know

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Speaker 4: where that comes from. I mean, even just look at

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Speaker 4: the math of how many questions Jesus asks. If you

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Speaker 4: want to make the claim that questions makes you soft

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Speaker 4: and holiness, you're going to have to contend with the

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Speaker 4: holiest man that ever lived. You know what I mean?

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Speaker 4: Like there's, Jesus spent so much time with who the

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Speaker 4: Pharisees found problematic, that he was accused of being a

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Speaker 4: drunken glutton. You don't get called a drunken glutton by

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Speaker 4: on occasion spending time with those people. He was doing

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Speaker 4: it so regularly that it made very pious people quite uncomfortable.

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Speaker 1: Guilty by association.

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Speaker 4: I can't think of the last time that I made

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Speaker 4: religious people uncomfortable by who I ate with. So obviously

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Speaker 4: there was an opportunity for us to say, I have

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Speaker 4: these convictions and I have them because I think I'm right.

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Speaker 4: But I'm also not going to assume that I know

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Speaker 4: everything about how you came to that conclusion. Brene Brown

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Speaker 4: has this line that I've loved for years where she said,

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Speaker 4: people are hard to hate up close. It's hard to

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Speaker 4: vilify when you're like, oh, I still totally disagree with you.

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Speaker 4: But now that I know some of your story or

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Speaker 4: how your old man treated you or the context you

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Speaker 4: were raised in, it actually makes a little more sense

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Speaker 4: why you conclude that.

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Speaker 3: Which, by the way, gives me opportunity then to communicate

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Speaker 3: with you in a whole different manner or way.

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Speaker 4: Of course.

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Speaker 3: That might, quote, open a whole other level of conversation

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Speaker 3: with you because your walls are up. I mean, you're defensive,

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Speaker 3: and I don't need to go that way with you.

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Speaker 4: That's right.

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Speaker 3: I've closed the wall.

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Speaker 4: That's right. It's like we forget where it's at. I

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Speaker 4: think it's Romans 6. It's his loving kindness that leads

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Speaker 4: us to repentance. I think we should all have that

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Speaker 4: tattooed in reverse on our foreheads. It's his loving kindness

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Speaker 4: that leads us to repentance. What an interesting... methodology. Tim

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Speaker 4: Chester wrote a book years ago that I thought was fascinating.

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Speaker 4: He says, the New Testament uses the phrase, the son

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Speaker 4: of man three times. Let me see if I get

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Speaker 4: this right. The son of man came to seek and

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Speaker 4: save the lost. The son of man did not come

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Speaker 4: to be served, but to serve. And the third is

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Speaker 4: the son of man came eating and drinking. It says

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Speaker 4: the first two are statements of purpose. The third is

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Speaker 4: statement of method. And I thought, how interesting. That's not

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Speaker 4: how I would have chosen. I think if you were

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Speaker 4: You pull most moderate evangelicals, hey, how would you complete

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Speaker 4: the sentence? Be like, the Son of Man came to

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Speaker 4: die for our sins, to show us the way. These

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Speaker 4: are all true things. The method that we're given in

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Speaker 4: the New Testament is eating and drinking. There must be

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Speaker 4: something profound about space at the table, incarnational ministry, embodied

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Speaker 4: presence that, to your point, I think we just miss

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Speaker 4: when you are That doesn't.

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Speaker 3: Mean I've compromised.

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Speaker 4: That's right.

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Speaker 3: Exactly. Exactly. People see it though as that often.

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Speaker 4: And I think when we see people as the sum.

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Speaker 4: of their hashtags, like it's really easy to flatten someone

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Speaker 4: to like, well, you're just the sum of your convictions

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Speaker 4: or how I know you voted or that denomination or

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Speaker 4: that part of the country. And we know that people–

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Speaker 4: are much more enigmatic than just simply what we see

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Speaker 4: of them online.

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Speaker 3: That's right.

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Speaker 2: And I'm even thinking about the guy who came up

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Speaker 2: to you in this church right here. If we talk

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Speaker 2: about division here for a moment, you could have easily

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Speaker 2: just spewed at him, well, man, figure it out. Because

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Speaker 2: we know the truth. You're believing a lie. You could

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Speaker 2: have just automatically gone at him. But you created space

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Speaker 2: for him to continue to show up. to experience the

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Speaker 2: loving kindness of God, to potentially feel the convictions of

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Speaker 2: his spirit, to potentially give his life to the Lord

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Speaker 2: here in this church. That's the upside down kingdom for

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Speaker 2: which Jesus came to seek and to save the lost.

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Speaker 2: I'm just thinking then the second one is distractions. I mean,

440
00:20:47,460 --> 00:20:50,070
Speaker 2: I don't know if we lived in a more distracted time.

441
00:20:50,140 --> 00:20:53,230
Speaker 2: I remember watching my niece in a soccer game. She

442
00:20:53,270 --> 00:20:56,080
Speaker 2: was Six at the time. She's seven now. But I

443
00:20:56,119 --> 00:20:58,510
Speaker 2: remember watching and there was this little girl who was

444
00:20:58,570 --> 00:21:02,350
Speaker 2: just like trying to get her dad's attention. And her

445
00:21:02,390 --> 00:21:05,470
Speaker 2: dad was just completely just head buried in the phone,

446
00:21:05,570 --> 00:21:08,710
Speaker 2: probably doom scrolling. He finally got a break from probably

447
00:21:08,750 --> 00:21:11,350
Speaker 2: the pressures of everyday life. He's just chilling on the sidelines.

448
00:21:11,830 --> 00:21:14,270
Speaker 2: But she was literally doing cartwheels right in front of

449
00:21:14,330 --> 00:21:17,149
Speaker 2: him and just literally desperately crying out like, just look

450
00:21:17,210 --> 00:21:19,580
Speaker 2: at me. I feel like there's a lot of people

451
00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:23,710
Speaker 2: that are just– desperately crying out, just look up.

452
00:21:23,750 --> 00:21:26,710
Speaker 1: Look at me. Engage with me because, again, it'll.

453
00:21:26,530 --> 00:21:28,830
Speaker 2: Bleed into our loneliness conversation here in a moment, but

454
00:21:28,950 --> 00:21:30,670
Speaker 2: speak to the distractions we're seeing.

455
00:21:31,630 --> 00:21:34,609
Speaker 4: First, I will speak as someone who has not arrived.

456
00:21:35,290 --> 00:21:38,869
Speaker 4: Neither have we. I got three little boys. I had

457
00:21:39,290 --> 00:21:41,250
Speaker 4: an interaction with my 7-year-old a little while ago. I

458
00:21:42,050 --> 00:21:44,550
Speaker 4: was doing exactly that. I was home, but I was

459
00:21:44,710 --> 00:21:47,050
Speaker 4: trying to answer a couple more emails under the table.

460
00:21:47,070 --> 00:21:49,710
Speaker 4: You know that thing that they can't see that I'm

461
00:21:49,730 --> 00:21:52,080
Speaker 4: doing that? And I was, he was saying something and

462
00:21:52,119 --> 00:21:53,990
Speaker 4: I was kind of doing the, uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh. I

463
00:21:54,030 --> 00:21:57,909
Speaker 4: didn't notice he had climbed up on the counter and

464
00:21:57,990 --> 00:22:03,150
Speaker 4: he grabbed my face. Oh, it's like broke me. They

465
00:22:03,190 --> 00:22:06,480
Speaker 4: grabbed my face and he said, Papa, you're not looking

466
00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:08,900
Speaker 4: at me. And I was like, you're right, buddy. Like

467
00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:11,320
Speaker 4: he just, and I know that there's going to come

468
00:22:11,340 --> 00:22:12,780
Speaker 4: a time where he's not going to do that anymore.

469
00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:14,600
Speaker 4: He's not going to grab, he's going to go, yeah,

470
00:22:14,619 --> 00:22:17,250
Speaker 4: dad's just doing what dad's doing. It was like such

471
00:22:17,270 --> 00:22:20,370
Speaker 4: a gift. to have him that bluntly say, you're not here.

472
00:22:20,550 --> 00:22:23,000
Speaker 4: Like you are, it is, it is what Jesus says

473
00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:25,700
Speaker 4: to Martha. Like you are pulled apart and distracted. You're

474
00:22:25,740 --> 00:22:28,139
Speaker 4: doing a bunch of probably even good things.

475
00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:28,380
Speaker 2: Yeah.

476
00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:31,280
Speaker 4: You're, you're missing the most important thing. And I realized

477
00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:34,440
Speaker 4: in my parenting, even in my own like quiet time,

478
00:22:34,460 --> 00:22:37,350
Speaker 4: it's not like I was like, oh man, uh, I'm

479
00:22:37,369 --> 00:22:39,510
Speaker 4: like tempted to go like rob a bank or like

480
00:22:39,530 --> 00:22:44,070
Speaker 4: be in my devos. It's like, I'm distracted by good things.

481
00:22:44,090 --> 00:22:45,710
Speaker 4: Like right now I need to be dad right now.

482
00:22:45,770 --> 00:22:48,250
Speaker 4: I need to be like quiet. before the Lord. And

483
00:22:48,270 --> 00:22:50,490
Speaker 4: I think the distraction thing, you know, we did a

484
00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:52,940
Speaker 4: series on, on tech a couple of years ago and

485
00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:55,119
Speaker 4: this one, I don't think this will surprise anybody, but

486
00:22:55,180 --> 00:22:57,760
Speaker 4: like the average screen time just on your phone for

487
00:22:57,800 --> 00:23:01,240
Speaker 4: the average millennial is like five hours a day, which

488
00:23:01,300 --> 00:23:04,090
Speaker 4: comes to something like two and a half months a year.

489
00:23:04,109 --> 00:23:05,570
Speaker 3: That's crazy.

490
00:23:05,770 --> 00:23:08,889
Speaker 4: That's, it probably is low. Yeah. And I just, I

491
00:23:08,910 --> 00:23:11,530
Speaker 4: just proposed the question if, if we're in our phones,

492
00:23:11,590 --> 00:23:14,470
Speaker 4: that doesn't even count our computers or our TVs, two

493
00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:17,210
Speaker 4: and a half months of every year. Is it possible

494
00:23:17,270 --> 00:23:19,230
Speaker 4: that maybe we're missing out on some of the activity

495
00:23:19,530 --> 00:23:22,760
Speaker 4: of God in our lives? And just let that question

496
00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:24,210
Speaker 4: kind of sit. I'm not like trying to get you

497
00:23:24,230 --> 00:23:26,180
Speaker 4: to throw your phone out. I'm not saying that tech

498
00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:29,280
Speaker 4: is evil. I am saying there might be some kingdom

499
00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:30,720
Speaker 4: of God stuff that we're missing out on.

500
00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:31,860
Speaker 3: What's your priorities?

501
00:23:32,380 --> 00:23:32,640
Speaker 4: Yes.

502
00:23:32,660 --> 00:23:36,960
Speaker 3: I often wonder, and I think a lot about the

503
00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:42,180
Speaker 3: distraction piece. What is it that holds us in our distractions?

504
00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:45,530
Speaker 3: Why do we give so much to it?

505
00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:46,000
Speaker 4: Yeah.

506
00:23:46,510 --> 00:23:49,950
Speaker 3: You know, we all get the Mary Martha thing, chose

507
00:23:49,970 --> 00:23:52,909
Speaker 3: the better thing, you know, but you come back and

508
00:23:52,930 --> 00:23:54,359
Speaker 3: you really look at your life.

509
00:23:54,619 --> 00:23:54,780
Speaker 4: Yep.

510
00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:57,660
Speaker 3: You tell a story about your son when he was

511
00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:00,820
Speaker 3: just a little guy. I came blowing home one night

512
00:24:01,060 --> 00:24:04,030
Speaker 3: and he'd come blowing up to the door, I mean,

513
00:24:04,090 --> 00:24:07,510
Speaker 3: with everything he has. And I had just walked in

514
00:24:07,550 --> 00:24:09,890
Speaker 3: the kitchen and he looked at me and he said

515
00:24:09,930 --> 00:24:12,030
Speaker 3: his first two words, put two words together, his first

516
00:24:12,070 --> 00:24:12,490
Speaker 3: two words.

517
00:24:12,650 --> 00:24:12,790
Speaker 2: Hmm.

518
00:24:13,359 --> 00:24:15,300
Speaker 3: He looked down at my feet, looked up at me,

519
00:24:15,380 --> 00:24:22,900
Speaker 3: looked back down and says, shoes off. Shoes off. That

520
00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:25,669
Speaker 3: meant stay home, get in here with me. You know

521
00:24:25,830 --> 00:24:27,870
Speaker 3: what I'm saying? And it was one of those things

522
00:24:27,890 --> 00:24:30,649
Speaker 3: when I was pacing and running hard, et cetera, and

523
00:24:30,670 --> 00:24:35,010
Speaker 3: it was a quick reminder that these are the finer

524
00:24:35,109 --> 00:24:35,649
Speaker 3: things of life.

525
00:24:35,670 --> 00:24:36,190
Speaker 4: That's right.

526
00:24:36,290 --> 00:24:40,379
Speaker 3: But somehow we begin to think whatever this is is

527
00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:43,720
Speaker 3: more important than you are right next to me. I'm

528
00:24:43,740 --> 00:24:45,129
Speaker 3: watching couples in a restaurant.

529
00:24:46,230 --> 00:24:46,450
Speaker 4: Yes.

530
00:24:47,010 --> 00:24:52,090
Speaker 3: And everybody's on their phone. We were flying yesterday, and

531
00:24:52,130 --> 00:24:54,090
Speaker 3: we were at the airport at the gate. And I

532
00:24:54,109 --> 00:24:55,929
Speaker 3: looked around, should have taken a picture.

533
00:24:56,790 --> 00:24:57,250
Speaker 1: Everybody.

534
00:24:57,410 --> 00:25:00,570
Speaker 3: Every person had their head buried in their phones.

535
00:25:00,670 --> 00:25:01,860
Speaker 4: I believe it. Everybody. Yep.

536
00:25:02,060 --> 00:25:03,800
Speaker 3: And by the way, it's getting worse.

537
00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:04,240
Speaker 2: Yep.

538
00:25:04,780 --> 00:25:07,800
Speaker 3: Not better. And people, what's interesting to me, and Ian,

539
00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:11,690
Speaker 3: are you seeing this? They're scrolling and usually they're looking

540
00:25:11,730 --> 00:25:13,930
Speaker 3: at videos of what they crave.

541
00:25:14,150 --> 00:25:14,430
Speaker 4: Oh, yeah.

542
00:25:15,890 --> 00:25:18,520
Speaker 3: They're watching videos and tears are in their eyes about,

543
00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:21,739
Speaker 3: you know, you only 75% of your time with your

544
00:25:21,780 --> 00:25:24,200
Speaker 3: kids is over by age 12, you know, and like

545
00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:26,840
Speaker 3: whatever by age 18. It's like, I don't want to

546
00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:27,500
Speaker 3: lose my kids.

547
00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:27,800
Speaker 4: Yes.

548
00:25:28,180 --> 00:25:29,280
Speaker 3: And they're watching all this stuff.

549
00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:29,520
Speaker 4: Yes.

550
00:25:29,820 --> 00:25:30,659
Speaker 3: But they're just watching.

551
00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:30,960
Speaker 2: Yep.

552
00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:34,250
Speaker 3: And they never get beyond it.

553
00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:34,459
Speaker 4: Yeah.

554
00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:35,610
Speaker 1: Never turn it into agency.

555
00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:36,310
Speaker 3: What holds us?

556
00:25:36,350 --> 00:25:40,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly. Boy, how much time do you got? I mean,

557
00:25:40,100 --> 00:25:42,520
Speaker 4: I think there's a lot of interesting research on dopamine

558
00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:44,510
Speaker 4: and dopamine fry and how all that works in the brain.

559
00:25:44,530 --> 00:25:46,990
Speaker 4: I think that's fascinating. I think at a deeper level. Sure.

560
00:25:47,290 --> 00:25:51,149
Speaker 4: I remember I read Screwtape Letters when I was probably 12.

561
00:25:51,150 --> 00:25:53,430
Speaker 4: There's a section in it. If you don't know the book,

562
00:25:53,490 --> 00:25:56,639
Speaker 4: it's a book by C.S. Lewis where he's imagining a

563
00:25:56,680 --> 00:25:59,939
Speaker 4: conversation between a veteran demon and a novice demon. And

564
00:26:00,300 --> 00:26:03,580
Speaker 4: I'll butcher the summary, but there's a section where he's

565
00:26:03,619 --> 00:26:07,310
Speaker 4: advising this young demon to just keep them distracted and

566
00:26:07,980 --> 00:26:10,760
Speaker 4: He's like, man, if they experience like great joy or

567
00:26:10,820 --> 00:26:12,980
Speaker 4: great tragedy that will drive them into the arms of

568
00:26:13,020 --> 00:26:15,500
Speaker 4: the enemy is what he says. Let's keep them in

569
00:26:15,540 --> 00:26:20,350
Speaker 4: this kind of squishy middle of just the doom scrolling.

570
00:26:20,369 --> 00:26:22,609
Speaker 4: I mean the algorithms are what they are for a reason.

571
00:26:22,650 --> 00:26:25,850
Speaker 4: Like it knows what you're hovering over. It knows exactly

572
00:26:26,369 --> 00:26:29,070
Speaker 4: the thing that you long for. I really do think–

573
00:26:29,450 --> 00:26:33,260
Speaker 4: I think when we lack purpose, we will distract with pleasure.

574
00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:37,609
Speaker 4: I think pleasure in many ways is a parody of like–

575
00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:40,139
Speaker 4: And that's not to say– again, I'm not Amish for

576
00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:41,899
Speaker 4: a reason. I'm not saying no one should ever be

577
00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:44,639
Speaker 4: on their phones ever. I'm not even saying for the

578
00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:46,800
Speaker 4: parent that's exhausted right now and they get home and

579
00:26:46,820 --> 00:26:49,439
Speaker 4: they're like, I just need to turn off for a second.

580
00:26:49,460 --> 00:26:52,080
Speaker 4: I totally get that. So I don't want to come

581
00:26:52,140 --> 00:26:54,740
Speaker 4: across like I'm some– Not at all. Yeah, tech is

582
00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:57,080
Speaker 4: destroying everything. But I think the thing beneath the thing

583
00:26:57,200 --> 00:27:00,940
Speaker 4: is worth paying attention to. Man, why is this scratching some.

584
00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:02,270
Speaker 3: Sort of like– Pay attention to what you're paying attention to.

585
00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:04,619
Speaker 4: A hundred percent. And I think that's part of the problem.

586
00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:08,680
Speaker 4: I think there's– Spiritual formation in my mind is way

587
00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:12,899
Speaker 4: more crockpot than microwave. And Eugene Peterson called it a

588
00:27:12,940 --> 00:27:15,500
Speaker 4: long obedience in the same direction. At the very least,

589
00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:20,160
Speaker 4: if this glowing rectangle is the first thing I look

590
00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:22,530
Speaker 4: at every morning and the last thing I look at

591
00:27:22,550 --> 00:27:25,330
Speaker 4: every night, that is forming me whether I realize it

592
00:27:25,369 --> 00:27:28,850
Speaker 4: or not. And that is how crockpots work. It's like, oh,

593
00:27:29,010 --> 00:27:32,149
Speaker 4: it's not a flash fry. But you keep doing that

594
00:27:32,170 --> 00:27:34,459
Speaker 4: over the course of 5, 10, 15 years and there

595
00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:36,800
Speaker 4: will be a drift that you maybe didn't realize. It

596
00:27:36,820 --> 00:27:39,939
Speaker 4: was imperceptible at the time. But there's a drift that

597
00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:42,100
Speaker 4: you won't even know. My brother is a chiropractor and

598
00:27:42,140 --> 00:27:45,300
Speaker 4: he says he calls it technic. And he said, Tech

599
00:27:45,380 --> 00:27:47,060
Speaker 4: Mac is going to send all of my kids through college.

600
00:27:48,140 --> 00:27:50,459
Speaker 4: He's like, it's literally the thing everyone comes in with

601
00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:51,920
Speaker 4: right now because everyone's just doing this.

602
00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:52,780
Speaker 1: Wow.

603
00:27:52,820 --> 00:27:55,000
Speaker 4: It's like that big of a problem in his line

604
00:27:55,030 --> 00:27:56,910
Speaker 4: of work. He's like, yep, that's the thing I'm correcting

605
00:27:57,230 --> 00:27:59,110
Speaker 4: most of the time. I'm like, that's a problem.

606
00:27:59,150 --> 00:28:01,129
Speaker 3: They call it doom scrolling and bed rotting.

607
00:28:01,310 --> 00:28:02,109
Speaker 4: Yeah, right.

608
00:28:02,130 --> 00:28:02,910
Speaker 3: Just laying in the bed.

609
00:28:03,070 --> 00:28:03,310
Speaker 4: Yep.

610
00:28:03,350 --> 00:28:04,510
Speaker 1: Not getting out of bed.

611
00:28:04,550 --> 00:28:06,320
Speaker 3: Kids are laying in the bed. No one's getting out

612
00:28:06,340 --> 00:28:06,520
Speaker 3: of bed.

613
00:28:06,910 --> 00:28:07,440
Speaker 4: That's not good.

614
00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:10,280
Speaker 2: Reminds me of a book by Justin Whitmill early.

615
00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:12,960
Speaker 1: He wrote a book called Made for People several.

616
00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:16,550
Speaker 2: Years ago, interviewed him on it. I remember him bringing

617
00:28:16,609 --> 00:28:19,490
Speaker 2: up the point that phones are actually a good means

618
00:28:19,550 --> 00:28:22,710
Speaker 2: to enhance relationship but not the means by which we

619
00:28:22,750 --> 00:28:24,030
Speaker 2: should engage in relationship.

620
00:28:24,050 --> 00:28:24,430
Speaker 4: That's good.

621
00:28:24,630 --> 00:28:26,780
Speaker 1: Because at the end of the day, it's like a snack,

622
00:28:26,900 --> 00:28:27,800
Speaker 1: not the meal.

623
00:28:27,980 --> 00:28:30,830
Speaker 2: Yep. we need embodied friendship, like you mentioned. And I

624
00:28:30,910 --> 00:28:33,250
Speaker 2: believe we're in a loneliness epidemic. I mean, we've seen

625
00:28:33,290 --> 00:28:35,570
Speaker 2: a lot of the research, the Cigna research surveys of

626
00:28:35,630 --> 00:28:40,430
Speaker 2: over 20,000 participants have revealed that 54% of those 20,000

627
00:28:40,430 --> 00:28:45,410
Speaker 2: people believe that nobody really knows them. And 36% believe

628
00:28:45,430 --> 00:28:46,920
Speaker 2: that they don't have one person in their life that

629
00:28:46,940 --> 00:28:48,760
Speaker 2: they could even turn to. So when you talk about

630
00:28:49,180 --> 00:28:52,880
Speaker 2: there's a problem here, yeah, we're digitally connected. We're constantly scrolling.

631
00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:54,640
Speaker 2: I know everything there is to know about your life

632
00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:56,860
Speaker 2: and your kids. If you're constantly posting it, I know

633
00:28:56,920 --> 00:29:00,370
Speaker 2: all of these different things. It's, perceived perfection in a

634
00:29:00,430 --> 00:29:03,520
Speaker 2: comparison culture. But I think the big thing that we

635
00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:07,380
Speaker 2: have to recognize is what's happened to the embodied friendship pieces.

636
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:09,340
Speaker 2: What are you seeing and why do you think we're

637
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:11,240
Speaker 2: struggling so much with loneliness?

638
00:29:13,260 --> 00:29:18,480
Speaker 4: Meaningful friendship is hard. I mean, it's messy. It's vulnerable.

639
00:29:18,580 --> 00:29:22,570
Speaker 4: All of those things. Yeah. I mean, being recognized and

640
00:29:22,610 --> 00:29:24,930
Speaker 4: being known are not the same thing. And I think

641
00:29:24,950 --> 00:29:28,040
Speaker 4: we are in a– I mean, I read a study–

642
00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:30,470
Speaker 4: two days ago and they polled a bunch of middle

643
00:29:30,490 --> 00:29:31,770
Speaker 4: school kids about what they want to be when they

644
00:29:31,810 --> 00:29:34,530
Speaker 4: grow up. The number one answer was influencer. Wow. And

645
00:29:34,550 --> 00:29:36,400
Speaker 4: they're like, influence what? And they're like, I don't know,

646
00:29:36,420 --> 00:29:39,620
Speaker 4: just want to be, used to be doctor, firefighter.

647
00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:39,800
Speaker 3: Yeah.

648
00:29:40,390 --> 00:29:42,850
Speaker 4: Astronaut. Now it's like, all I know is I want

649
00:29:42,870 --> 00:29:45,490
Speaker 4: to be famous. I want to be on a stage

650
00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:47,730
Speaker 4: or a platform of some kind. And, by the way,

651
00:29:48,420 --> 00:29:51,880
Speaker 4: pastors are just as susceptible. The loneliness stats for pastors

652
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:55,280
Speaker 4: are abysmal. And part of why is they engage every

653
00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:57,000
Speaker 4: week in this parasocial relationship.

654
00:29:57,420 --> 00:29:57,660
Speaker 2: I think.

655
00:29:58,410 --> 00:30:01,050
Speaker 4: I'm like so grateful to be a pastor. I can't

656
00:30:01,090 --> 00:30:03,910
Speaker 4: believe that I get to like preach and lead a

657
00:30:03,950 --> 00:30:06,890
Speaker 4: church with this team. I love this community. I think

658
00:30:06,970 --> 00:30:09,820
Speaker 4: stages are occupational hazards for pastors. I think you have

659
00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:14,260
Speaker 4: to actively cultivate a formational habit that is counter to

660
00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:16,700
Speaker 4: what a stage does to the human soul. And with

661
00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:20,500
Speaker 4: social media, we all have stages. We can perform the

662
00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:23,520
Speaker 4: world over for an audience of nobody if we want

663
00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:25,880
Speaker 4: as long as it looks impressive, as long as my

664
00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:29,090
Speaker 4: vacation looks incredible. And I think What ends up happening

665
00:30:29,130 --> 00:30:32,510
Speaker 4: unfortunately is we compare everyone else's highlight reel to my

666
00:30:32,550 --> 00:30:35,510
Speaker 4: blooper reel. So it's everyone else's best version of themselves

667
00:30:36,290 --> 00:30:39,750
Speaker 4: all the time and I'm comparing my like very real complex,

668
00:30:39,850 --> 00:30:44,520
Speaker 4: often messy, gritty, sometimes tragic life to everyone's best vacation

669
00:30:44,540 --> 00:30:48,060
Speaker 4: to Bora Bora. And I think we're seeing the mental

670
00:30:48,100 --> 00:30:50,160
Speaker 4: health implications and ramifications of that.

671
00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:53,760
Speaker 2: The greatest definition for the word loneliness I've ever heard

672
00:30:53,780 --> 00:30:55,380
Speaker 2: is somebody that used to have friends.

673
00:30:55,780 --> 00:30:55,880
Speaker 4: Ugh.

674
00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:58,760
Speaker 2: Because when you think about that, you have the kids,

675
00:30:59,540 --> 00:31:01,100
Speaker 2: and then all of a sudden you lose friends because

676
00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:02,580
Speaker 2: you have the kids and you're in new seasons of life.

677
00:31:02,980 --> 00:31:05,340
Speaker 2: You get married, and all of a sudden you're no

678
00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:07,500
Speaker 2: longer as close to the guys who aren't married in

679
00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:10,520
Speaker 2: your life. Whatever it is, you moved, you took the

680
00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:13,400
Speaker 2: new job. It doesn't have to be bad things at all.

681
00:31:13,420 --> 00:31:17,110
Speaker 2: It doesn't mean you're a hermit. It just means, man,

682
00:31:17,130 --> 00:31:20,090
Speaker 2: there's a new season, and with that comes grieving sometimes.

683
00:31:20,650 --> 00:31:23,190
Speaker 2: And so friendships, I think it was Justin that actually

684
00:31:23,210 --> 00:31:25,430
Speaker 2: told me when you have kids, friendship's often the first

685
00:31:25,450 --> 00:31:27,230
Speaker 2: thing that goes, but it's also the first thing you need.

686
00:31:27,670 --> 00:31:30,590
Speaker 2: And so it's the reminder that we constantly need people

687
00:31:30,610 --> 00:31:34,430
Speaker 2: because we were made for connection. I'm thinking about just

688
00:31:34,950 --> 00:31:37,400
Speaker 2: as we continue to navigate the conversation, you said people

689
00:31:37,500 --> 00:31:42,740
Speaker 2: really crave fame and fortune and the followers. You don't

690
00:31:42,780 --> 00:31:45,360
Speaker 2: need millions of followers. You just need a few faithful friends.

691
00:31:45,820 --> 00:31:48,040
Speaker 2: But I think of the life of Christ, right? His

692
00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:50,780
Speaker 2: first 30 years are spent in complete obscurity.

693
00:31:51,550 --> 00:31:52,190
Speaker 1: What do we know about him?

694
00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:54,610
Speaker 2: He's a carpenter growing in favor with God and man,

695
00:31:54,650 --> 00:31:57,150
Speaker 2: like all of these things. But then you think about

696
00:31:57,250 --> 00:32:00,690
Speaker 2: the power of a quiet life. 1 Thessalonians 4, 11

697
00:32:00,690 --> 00:32:03,030
Speaker 2: to 12. Make it your aim or ambition to lead

698
00:32:03,090 --> 00:32:05,490
Speaker 2: or to live a quiet life. Minding your own business,

699
00:32:05,550 --> 00:32:07,290
Speaker 2: working with your hands just as you've been instructed.

700
00:32:07,330 --> 00:32:07,570
Speaker 4: Why?

701
00:32:07,910 --> 00:32:09,970
Speaker 2: So that way you might win the respect of outsiders

702
00:32:10,010 --> 00:32:12,830
Speaker 2: and not grow dependent upon anybody. I think about that

703
00:32:13,010 --> 00:32:18,890
Speaker 2: theme of quiet. Why is that so uncomfortable for us, Ian,

704
00:32:19,070 --> 00:32:20,250
Speaker 2: to live quietly?

705
00:32:21,620 --> 00:32:23,160
Speaker 4: I mean, I can tell you from my own life, man,

706
00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:27,080
Speaker 4: there's been some really difficult seasons where I feel like

707
00:32:27,100 --> 00:32:30,000
Speaker 4: the Lord said, Ian, you run to noise because you're

708
00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:31,880
Speaker 4: afraid of what I would tell you in quiet. Like

709
00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:34,830
Speaker 4: there is a very real, and not just noise. I

710
00:32:34,850 --> 00:32:39,210
Speaker 4: like activity. I like, I'm a classic workaholic overachiever. Like that's,

711
00:32:39,330 --> 00:32:41,570
Speaker 4: that gear is just in me. Like that's always been

712
00:32:41,590 --> 00:32:45,310
Speaker 4: that way. And in some ways, in some ways it

713
00:32:45,350 --> 00:32:47,930
Speaker 4: has served me well. One of the lines that I'll

714
00:32:47,950 --> 00:32:52,590
Speaker 4: often say is, you know, workaholics, alcoholics get treatment, but

715
00:32:52,630 --> 00:32:55,430
Speaker 4: workaholics get applause. And I think part of what's so

716
00:32:55,450 --> 00:32:57,290
Speaker 4: tricky is if you have a substance abuse, man, we

717
00:32:57,310 --> 00:32:58,510
Speaker 4: got to get you, got to get you some help.

718
00:32:59,070 --> 00:33:01,380
Speaker 4: Workaholism will get you a promotion. I mean, there's a

719
00:33:01,430 --> 00:33:03,940
Speaker 4: lot of cheerleaders on the road to like, just keep doing,

720
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:06,700
Speaker 4: keep going, never stop. And I think for me, and

721
00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:08,980
Speaker 4: I don't think, I don't think the motivation is true

722
00:33:09,020 --> 00:33:11,740
Speaker 4: for everybody. I actually don't think that everyone necessarily wants

723
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:13,840
Speaker 4: a big stage or a platform. I know plenty of

724
00:33:13,860 --> 00:33:16,350
Speaker 4: people are like, I want less attention, but there is

725
00:33:16,410 --> 00:33:20,110
Speaker 4: still sometimes a temptation to perform off of the drive

726
00:33:20,150 --> 00:33:22,880
Speaker 4: for me. is somewhere along the lines, I bought the

727
00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:26,010
Speaker 4: lie that I am only as valuable as what I produce.

728
00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:31,110
Speaker 4: It's such a convincing lie, especially if you're wired like

729
00:33:31,230 --> 00:33:33,730
Speaker 4: I am. I am really only is... The idea of

730
00:33:33,830 --> 00:33:37,210
Speaker 4: Jesus living, walking planet Earth for 33 years, 30 of

731
00:33:37,250 --> 00:33:40,290
Speaker 4: them in relative obscurity, I'm not a math doctor, that's

732
00:33:40,310 --> 00:33:44,650
Speaker 4: like 90% in anonymity. When we talk about wanting to

733
00:33:44,670 --> 00:33:47,770
Speaker 4: become like Jesus, we don't tend to talk about his obscurity.

734
00:33:47,830 --> 00:33:51,300
Speaker 4: We never, quote, make it your ambition... to live a

735
00:33:51,340 --> 00:33:54,100
Speaker 4: quiet life. And I think part of why we run

736
00:33:54,180 --> 00:33:56,240
Speaker 4: from that is because so much in our culture, you know,

737
00:33:56,270 --> 00:33:59,130
Speaker 4: Henry Nowen once outlined the three lies that we're all

738
00:33:59,190 --> 00:34:01,150
Speaker 4: tempted to believe to some degree is I am what

739
00:34:01,170 --> 00:34:03,690
Speaker 4: I have. I am what I do. I am what

740
00:34:03,710 --> 00:34:06,170
Speaker 4: other people say about me. And I've seen each of

741
00:34:06,210 --> 00:34:08,870
Speaker 4: those three at play in different seasons of my life. Like, oh,

742
00:34:08,910 --> 00:34:11,270
Speaker 4: I think the motivation behind this thing is I'm deeply

743
00:34:11,690 --> 00:34:14,029
Speaker 4: concerned with what you think of me or what you

744
00:34:14,070 --> 00:34:17,170
Speaker 4: say of me or how I'm perceived to the surrounding culture.

745
00:34:17,310 --> 00:34:19,650
Speaker 4: And I think those motivations are often drive.

746
00:34:19,450 --> 00:34:22,090
Speaker 3: Us to a lot of, we've been programmed. Wow.

747
00:34:22,180 --> 00:34:22,700
Speaker 4: Oh, for sure.

748
00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:25,140
Speaker 3: We've been programmed since we were a hundred percent all

749
00:34:25,180 --> 00:34:29,160
Speaker 3: the way through. And so works like, um, ruthlessly eliminating

750
00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:32,580
Speaker 3: hurry from your life. John Mark Comer, Ortberg, what all

751
00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:33,839
Speaker 3: goes all the way back to Dallas Willard.

752
00:34:33,860 --> 00:34:34,300
Speaker 4: That's right.

753
00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:39,540
Speaker 3: Get this piece right. It's like, that's hard to do.

754
00:34:39,700 --> 00:34:42,549
Speaker 4: And it also is hard to believe. I remember reading

755
00:34:42,610 --> 00:34:45,370
Speaker 4: that when I was in college thinking that can't be

756
00:34:45,410 --> 00:34:48,339
Speaker 4: the most important thing. I mean, I, Now one was

757
00:34:48,380 --> 00:34:50,989
Speaker 4: the first that I heard say, I think it might

758
00:34:51,010 --> 00:34:52,890
Speaker 4: have been in the life of the beloved. He said,

759
00:34:52,930 --> 00:34:55,950
Speaker 4: the most important task, especially for the Christian leader, is

760
00:34:55,989 --> 00:34:58,850
Speaker 4: to always live and serve from a place of belovedness.

761
00:34:59,730 --> 00:35:01,810
Speaker 4: And again, I'm like 24 and I'm reading this. I'm like,

762
00:35:02,070 --> 00:35:05,319
Speaker 4: that can't be number one. Surely you have better advice.

763
00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:08,680
Speaker 4: And now in my 40s, I'm like, all of the

764
00:35:08,739 --> 00:35:11,180
Speaker 4: seasons where I've gotten in myself into the most trouble,

765
00:35:11,500 --> 00:35:14,000
Speaker 4: the most out of whack, when I wasn't leading from

766
00:35:14,060 --> 00:35:17,200
Speaker 4: a place of belovedness, that before I do or accomplish anything,

767
00:35:18,130 --> 00:35:21,569
Speaker 4: I'm a beloved son or daughter. I think that's where

768
00:35:21,590 --> 00:35:24,009
Speaker 4: we tend to get the most out of whack, and

769
00:35:24,030 --> 00:35:25,549
Speaker 4: I think it leads to all sorts of other things.

770
00:35:25,989 --> 00:35:28,280
Speaker 2: Reminds me of Ortberg's work. He has a book called

771
00:35:28,300 --> 00:35:30,240
Speaker 2: I'd Like You More If You Were More Like Me.

772
00:35:30,820 --> 00:35:33,360
Speaker 2: Love that book, and I love how he defines intimacy,

773
00:35:33,420 --> 00:35:36,279
Speaker 2: mastering the art of the shared experience. And he talks

774
00:35:36,340 --> 00:35:38,819
Speaker 2: about just look at the life of Christ. When he

775
00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:41,860
Speaker 2: lived his days in complete obscurity, but what he did

776
00:35:41,900 --> 00:35:45,069
Speaker 2: with his disciples, they ate together, they fished together. They

777
00:35:45,090 --> 00:35:47,730
Speaker 2: had slumber parties together in a sense. They did hard

778
00:35:47,790 --> 00:35:51,230
Speaker 2: work together, hiked together, all these things together. And then

779
00:35:51,270 --> 00:35:53,969
Speaker 2: he says this line, he was perfectly willing to do

780
00:35:54,050 --> 00:35:56,800
Speaker 2: his work more slowly if it meant connecting with those

781
00:35:56,820 --> 00:36:01,600
Speaker 2: that he loved more deeply because he never placed efficiency

782
00:36:02,020 --> 00:36:02,980
Speaker 2: over intimacy.

783
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:03,520
Speaker 4: That's right.

784
00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:06,020
Speaker 2: So Ian, talk to us for a moment. Just let's

785
00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:09,440
Speaker 2: get this, make this practical here. For somebody who is

786
00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:13,350
Speaker 2: listening today and they're starting to recognize like, man, I

787
00:36:13,390 --> 00:36:16,650
Speaker 2: might be that person without friends. I might be the

788
00:36:16,750 --> 00:36:19,170
Speaker 2: one that's been chasing all these things, even subconsciously. I

789
00:36:19,170 --> 00:36:21,109
Speaker 2: didn't even realize it, but now I'm becoming more aware

790
00:36:21,150 --> 00:36:23,010
Speaker 2: of it. Even just by listening to these three guys talk,

791
00:36:24,110 --> 00:36:27,760
Speaker 2: how do we begin to take steps to reclaim connection?

792
00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:31,339
Speaker 4: Man, brilliant question. I think to what you just said,

793
00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:35,360
Speaker 4: I think efficiency is good. Sometimes efficiency is good, but

794
00:36:35,380 --> 00:36:37,410
Speaker 4: it's a terrible God. And I think when we make it,

795
00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:39,739
Speaker 4: when you make a good thing, an ultimate thing, things always,

796
00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:42,649
Speaker 4: you know, end up out of whack. I think, Part

797
00:36:42,670 --> 00:36:46,719
Speaker 4: of why I'm so compelled about the table is you're

798
00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:49,620
Speaker 4: going to eat anyway. You know, most of us next

799
00:36:49,660 --> 00:36:53,180
Speaker 4: week are going to have something like 21 meals. What

800
00:36:53,219 --> 00:36:55,259
Speaker 4: if you did just one of them on purpose? What

801
00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:59,700
Speaker 4: if you had one meal with kingdom imagination? One of

802
00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:01,230
Speaker 4: the phrases that we use a lot at the bridge

803
00:37:01,370 --> 00:37:04,149
Speaker 4: is we encourage our people to pray, Lord, at this

804
00:37:04,210 --> 00:37:06,770
Speaker 4: table as it is in heaven. I think it's easy

805
00:37:06,810 --> 00:37:08,870
Speaker 4: sometimes when we pray on earth as it is in

806
00:37:08,910 --> 00:37:11,350
Speaker 4: heaven because it's so vast and almost like lets us

807
00:37:11,410 --> 00:37:13,180
Speaker 4: off the hook. You're like, yeah, yeah, Lord, can you

808
00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:15,560
Speaker 4: just do that, I don't know, over the whole earth?

809
00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:19,859
Speaker 4: And amen. When you begin to pray before a conversation,

810
00:37:19,890 --> 00:37:22,230
Speaker 4: before a cup of coffee, even just to yourself, Lord,

811
00:37:22,330 --> 00:37:24,910
Speaker 4: at this table as it is in heaven, let me

812
00:37:24,950 --> 00:37:28,569
Speaker 4: be just a small conduit of grace and mercy and

813
00:37:28,610 --> 00:37:30,830
Speaker 4: love and presence for this person. I may not know

814
00:37:30,870 --> 00:37:34,660
Speaker 4: anything about their life. Even just that prayer has transformed

815
00:37:34,700 --> 00:37:37,560
Speaker 4: the way I can't have a normal meal anymore. It's changed.

816
00:37:38,060 --> 00:37:39,520
Speaker 4: And I told our church, I said, I don't want

817
00:37:39,540 --> 00:37:40,820
Speaker 4: you to be able to look at a single table.

818
00:37:40,860 --> 00:37:43,029
Speaker 4: I want you to be sick and tired of hearing

819
00:37:43,050 --> 00:37:45,450
Speaker 4: me talk about tables to the point where you can't

820
00:37:45,710 --> 00:37:48,110
Speaker 4: sit at one anywhere and not think, oh man, how

821
00:37:48,130 --> 00:37:50,030
Speaker 4: do I do this on purpose? Because in the kingdom

822
00:37:50,070 --> 00:37:54,330
Speaker 4: of God, I don't think mission is like one more

823
00:37:54,390 --> 00:37:57,060
Speaker 4: thing you have to shoehorn into an already busy schedule.

824
00:37:57,700 --> 00:38:00,020
Speaker 4: I think it just becomes the lens by which we

825
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:04,540
Speaker 4: see all of life. It's great commission stuff. It's not, therefore,

826
00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:08,339
Speaker 4: go hop on a plane and go do ministry it's

827
00:38:08,500 --> 00:38:11,000
Speaker 4: in it's in your going and so like to take

828
00:38:11,380 --> 00:38:13,839
Speaker 4: one of 21 that's kind of shorthand around here hey

829
00:38:13,860 --> 00:38:16,200
Speaker 4: what's your what's your one of 21 one meal on

830
00:38:16,260 --> 00:38:19,280
Speaker 4: purpose another thing that i think is really helpful especially

831
00:38:19,340 --> 00:38:23,430
Speaker 4: for you know enneagram threes like me that talk too

832
00:38:23,469 --> 00:38:28,970
Speaker 4: much like focus more on being interested than interesting like

833
00:38:28,989 --> 00:38:30,609
Speaker 4: i just think there's a lot of pressure sometimes that

834
00:38:30,670 --> 00:38:33,700
Speaker 4: i feel some performance anxiety like they like me all

835
00:38:33,719 --> 00:38:37,140
Speaker 4: my stories are funny Back to the curiosity thing. I

836
00:38:37,180 --> 00:38:39,930
Speaker 4: find when I'm like truly interested and I focus less

837
00:38:39,969 --> 00:38:42,870
Speaker 4: on trying to be interesting, especially for the person that

838
00:38:42,890 --> 00:38:46,410
Speaker 4: maybe is listening to this thinking, I don't even know

839
00:38:46,450 --> 00:38:50,230
Speaker 4: where to start. First acknowledge that that is a difficult

840
00:38:50,270 --> 00:38:52,890
Speaker 4: jump to make. Like give yourself some grace. But I

841
00:38:52,910 --> 00:38:55,350
Speaker 4: think the more that we can lead with genuine curiosity

842
00:38:55,530 --> 00:38:59,310
Speaker 4: and not like– you listen to understand, not to respond.

843
00:38:59,870 --> 00:39:02,210
Speaker 4: Because we've all been with that person. Of course. That's

844
00:39:02,250 --> 00:39:04,150
Speaker 4: just waiting for me to stop talking so that you

845
00:39:04,170 --> 00:39:06,960
Speaker 4: can interject. I don't think that is the kind of

846
00:39:06,980 --> 00:39:10,760
Speaker 4: intimacy that moves the needle for anybody. So that rubric

847
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:11,940
Speaker 4: has been really helpful for me.

848
00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:14,740
Speaker 3: Ian, what did you learn about Jesus at the table?

849
00:39:15,060 --> 00:39:18,719
Speaker 4: Oh, man. In a lot of ways, before I even

850
00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:22,320
Speaker 4: had language for it, I saw it modeled by my parents.

851
00:39:22,500 --> 00:39:27,009
Speaker 4: I'm the oldest of seven, and I grew up in

852
00:39:27,030 --> 00:39:32,040
Speaker 4: this little house outside Detroit. And I– it goes without saying,

853
00:39:32,060 --> 00:39:35,760
Speaker 4: there wasn't a lot of spare space in our house.

854
00:39:36,510 --> 00:39:39,830
Speaker 4: And my parents, I've never seen them turn down a

855
00:39:39,870 --> 00:39:41,630
Speaker 4: friend of mine that got kicked out of their house

856
00:39:41,930 --> 00:39:44,090
Speaker 4: or needed like a warm dinner or a place to

857
00:39:44,130 --> 00:39:46,890
Speaker 4: stay or a place to lay low. They just always,

858
00:39:47,870 --> 00:39:50,570
Speaker 4: they just modeled this for me And they just always

859
00:39:50,750 --> 00:39:52,549
Speaker 4: tied it back to Jesus. Like, no, this is just

860
00:39:52,590 --> 00:39:54,870
Speaker 4: how Jesus compels us to live. And it wasn't like

861
00:39:55,770 --> 00:39:57,790
Speaker 4: a program. I don't, they don't, I don't think they

862
00:39:57,810 --> 00:39:59,799
Speaker 4: were drawing from a curriculum. It was like, no, this

863
00:39:59,860 --> 00:40:03,480
Speaker 4: is just what, this is what kingdom hospitality, your buddy

864
00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:04,239
Speaker 4: needs a place to stay.

865
00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:04,480
Speaker 2: Yeah.

866
00:40:04,500 --> 00:40:06,660
Speaker 4: We'll find a place. Oh, we'll grab some blankets. We'll

867
00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:08,520
Speaker 4: grab some, yeah, we'll pull up an extra chair at

868
00:40:08,540 --> 00:40:11,960
Speaker 4: the table. Like they just always, it honestly wasn't until

869
00:40:11,980 --> 00:40:13,879
Speaker 4: I was well into my thirties that it really clicked

870
00:40:13,900 --> 00:40:16,880
Speaker 4: for me. Like, oh, I saw this first modeled by

871
00:40:16,940 --> 00:40:19,219
Speaker 4: Eric and Colette Simpkins. They just, showed us this is

872
00:40:19,260 --> 00:40:22,200
Speaker 4: how we live, and it has stuck with me all

873
00:40:22,219 --> 00:40:22,560
Speaker 4: these years.

874
00:40:22,980 --> 00:40:24,299
Speaker 3: It was seven kids. You had to get to the

875
00:40:24,340 --> 00:40:25,080
Speaker 3: table quick, too.

876
00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:26,359
Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly.

877
00:40:26,489 --> 00:40:27,140
Speaker 2: He's one of eight.

878
00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:30,630
Speaker 4: Oh, you get it. Yeah, I remember reading an article

879
00:40:30,710 --> 00:40:33,730
Speaker 4: once that said dieticians say the slower you eat, the

880
00:40:33,770 --> 00:40:36,190
Speaker 4: less you eat. And I thought, yeah, the same rule

881
00:40:36,230 --> 00:40:39,310
Speaker 4: applied to my house. If you took your time, it

882
00:40:39,950 --> 00:40:40,410
Speaker 4: was gone.

883
00:40:41,030 --> 00:40:41,230
Speaker 3: Money.

884
00:40:41,390 --> 00:40:43,969
Speaker 1: That's money right there.

885
00:40:44,010 --> 00:40:46,530
Speaker 3: I'll tell you what. This has been fascinating because, again,

886
00:40:46,969 --> 00:40:49,990
Speaker 3: somewhere in the midst of the chaos of our lives,

887
00:40:50,739 --> 00:40:53,680
Speaker 3: we all know that we've got to dial it back.

888
00:40:54,560 --> 00:40:57,140
Speaker 3: We've got to get back to center. It's like in sports.

889
00:40:57,700 --> 00:40:59,960
Speaker 3: Your shot's off. Get back to the foul line. Get

890
00:40:59,980 --> 00:41:03,500
Speaker 3: back to the fundamentals. Get it right. And there's a

891
00:41:03,580 --> 00:41:07,799
Speaker 3: dynamic here that says, hey, come. Lock in here for

892
00:41:07,860 --> 00:41:13,540
Speaker 3: a moment. Spend time at his feet. There's something. This

893
00:41:13,980 --> 00:41:19,270
Speaker 3: process of osmosis, this transmission stuff that happens, takes you

894
00:41:19,310 --> 00:41:20,350
Speaker 3: to a whole different place.

895
00:41:20,370 --> 00:41:20,950
Speaker 4: Absolutely.

896
00:41:21,110 --> 00:41:23,050
Speaker 3: And most of us, again, are just running on empty.

897
00:41:23,310 --> 00:41:23,529
Speaker 4: Yes.

898
00:41:23,550 --> 00:41:28,180
Speaker 2: I think what this book really speaks to about Jesus

899
00:41:28,460 --> 00:41:29,520
Speaker 2: is that there's always room.

900
00:41:29,380 --> 00:41:30,339
Speaker 4: For one more. That's right.

901
00:41:30,710 --> 00:41:32,089
Speaker 1: There's always room for one more at the table.

902
00:41:32,390 --> 00:41:34,830
Speaker 2: We always hear, we see it on walls, we see

903
00:41:34,850 --> 00:41:36,450
Speaker 2: it on the back of t-shirts that he left the

904
00:41:36,450 --> 00:41:38,819
Speaker 2: 99 to pursue the one. But it's like, what if

905
00:41:38,989 --> 00:41:41,540
Speaker 2: we were intentional about inviting the one in?

906
00:41:41,660 --> 00:41:41,960
Speaker 4: Come on.

907
00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:44,719
Speaker 2: Speak to just somebody out there today as we kind

908
00:41:44,739 --> 00:41:48,140
Speaker 2: of wrap up our time together, Ian, that maybe feels

909
00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:53,480
Speaker 2: left out. Maybe feels like they've never really been invited

910
00:41:53,980 --> 00:41:56,580
Speaker 2: to a table before. Like they're just navigating life on

911
00:41:56,600 --> 00:41:59,219
Speaker 2: their own. What's a final word of hope, encouragement, and

912
00:41:59,260 --> 00:42:00,799
Speaker 2: motivation to that one more?

913
00:42:01,020 --> 00:42:04,319
Speaker 4: Man, I would just first want this person to know

914
00:42:04,340 --> 00:42:06,730
Speaker 4: that God sees them, even if they don't feel that

915
00:42:06,950 --> 00:42:10,670
Speaker 4: or sense that at all. I think, I mean, central

916
00:42:10,930 --> 00:42:15,990
Speaker 4: to the biblical story is a God who stepped from

917
00:42:16,190 --> 00:42:21,350
Speaker 4: eternity and entered broken humanity, like a God who is proximate, Emmanuel,

918
00:42:21,390 --> 00:42:25,360
Speaker 4: God with us. And if that's central to the story,

919
00:42:25,640 --> 00:42:27,880
Speaker 4: then it means that he is a God who draws near.

920
00:42:28,500 --> 00:42:31,680
Speaker 4: And I think that there's so much, there's so much

921
00:42:31,890 --> 00:42:37,590
Speaker 4: right now. There's so much rage bait, so much division,

922
00:42:37,930 --> 00:42:42,610
Speaker 4: so much distraction to really listen to the still small

923
00:42:42,650 --> 00:42:45,630
Speaker 4: voice of the God who says, there's a seat with

924
00:42:45,650 --> 00:42:47,610
Speaker 4: your name on it. And I think of the parable

925
00:42:47,650 --> 00:42:50,510
Speaker 4: that Jesus tells of, of the feast of the banquet.

926
00:42:51,150 --> 00:42:55,219
Speaker 4: He tells the guest, uh, go out to the highways,

927
00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:58,520
Speaker 4: go out to the city streets and compel them to

928
00:42:58,600 --> 00:43:00,840
Speaker 4: come in. I'm like so struck by that word. I

929
00:43:01,489 --> 00:43:03,810
Speaker 4: think he says you have to compel them because people

930
00:43:04,030 --> 00:43:05,670
Speaker 4: are going to have a hard time believing how good

931
00:43:05,690 --> 00:43:08,770
Speaker 4: this actually is. I think it's incumbent on us to say, yeah,

932
00:43:08,790 --> 00:43:10,910
Speaker 4: you're invited if you want to come. I think it's

933
00:43:10,950 --> 00:43:14,810
Speaker 4: incumbent on followers of Jesus to say with crystal clarity, man,

934
00:43:14,850 --> 00:43:16,680
Speaker 4: there's a seat with your name on it. The kingdom

935
00:43:16,700 --> 00:43:20,600
Speaker 4: of God has space for you and you are welcomed

936
00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:23,009
Speaker 4: into the household of God. And I think, One of

937
00:43:23,030 --> 00:43:24,430
Speaker 4: the things we say a lot at the bridge is

938
00:43:25,030 --> 00:43:27,089
Speaker 4: God has invited us to his table. We didn't earn

939
00:43:27,130 --> 00:43:30,350
Speaker 4: our place there. We didn't become impressive enough to like

940
00:43:31,030 --> 00:43:33,250
Speaker 4: really kind of earn a spot. God has invited us

941
00:43:33,290 --> 00:43:35,629
Speaker 4: to his table. And in light of that, who needs

942
00:43:35,650 --> 00:43:38,290
Speaker 4: to be invited to ours? It is because of the

943
00:43:38,330 --> 00:43:40,710
Speaker 4: grace that he's shown us first that we then live

944
00:43:40,830 --> 00:43:42,630
Speaker 4: as agents of grace wherever God has placed us.

945
00:43:42,710 --> 00:43:43,530
Speaker 3: Come and dine.

946
00:43:43,670 --> 00:43:43,890
Speaker 4: Yeah.

947
00:43:44,130 --> 00:43:44,930
Speaker 1: Come and dine.

948
00:43:45,250 --> 00:43:45,629
Speaker 4: That's right.

949
00:43:45,989 --> 00:43:46,549
Speaker 2: I love it.

950
00:43:46,570 --> 00:43:51,200
Speaker 3: My son who was lost has come home.

951
00:43:51,300 --> 00:43:51,660
Speaker 4: That's right.

952
00:43:52,350 --> 00:43:54,549
Speaker 3: No, the fatted calf. Let's have a celebration.

953
00:43:54,670 --> 00:43:55,370
Speaker 4: Let's throw a party.

954
00:43:55,710 --> 00:43:57,690
Speaker 3: Let's go do that thing.

955
00:43:57,870 --> 00:43:58,109
Speaker 4: Yes.

956
00:43:59,670 --> 00:44:07,060
Speaker 3: What a beautiful journey that is. And congratulations, Ian, on

957
00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:10,480
Speaker 3: this work. I think it's going to be really significant.

958
00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:12,259
Speaker 3: Thank you. Absolutely.

959
00:44:12,580 --> 00:44:13,359
Speaker 4: It already is.

960
00:44:13,420 --> 00:44:17,710
Speaker 3: And seeing the table for what it really is, an altar.

961
00:44:17,950 --> 00:44:18,310
Speaker 4: Yes, sir.

962
00:44:18,719 --> 00:44:20,990
Speaker 2: Ian, my friend, this is a compliment, but I don't

963
00:44:21,050 --> 00:44:23,069
Speaker 2: view you as the type of person who likes to.

964
00:44:23,050 --> 00:44:24,110
Speaker 1: Brag on yourself.

965
00:44:24,210 --> 00:44:26,950
Speaker 2: But I am going to follow the conversation off with

966
00:44:26,989 --> 00:44:29,330
Speaker 2: this idea of where can our audience at least go

967
00:44:29,370 --> 00:44:31,450
Speaker 2: to find out a little bit more about you and

968
00:44:31,469 --> 00:44:34,589
Speaker 2: maybe to preorder or then purchase a copy of Every

969
00:44:34,630 --> 00:44:35,610
Speaker 2: Table and Altar. Yeah.

970
00:44:35,790 --> 00:44:37,770
Speaker 4: Oh, man, you can already feel like all the hair

971
00:44:37,810 --> 00:44:39,730
Speaker 4: on the back of my neck. I was hoping we

972
00:44:39,770 --> 00:44:43,689
Speaker 4: can get to this part. I should have an answer

973
00:44:43,750 --> 00:44:48,489
Speaker 4: already ready for you. Instagram at IanSimpkins.com. No, IanSimpkins.com. Instagram

974
00:44:48,510 --> 00:44:52,260
Speaker 4: is IanSimpkins, and everytableanalter.com. You can go to pre-order.

975
00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:54,200
Speaker 1: Ian, you are a gift, my friend.

976
00:44:54,440 --> 00:44:56,920
Speaker 2: Seriously, a gift to the Big C Global Church, a

977
00:44:56,960 --> 00:44:58,880
Speaker 2: gift to us. We're grateful for the work that you do.

978
00:44:58,900 --> 00:44:59,680
Speaker 3: Thanks for taking time.

979
00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:00,450
Speaker 1: Thank you for taking time.

980
00:45:00,469 --> 00:45:00,790
Speaker 4: My pleasure.

981
00:45:00,810 --> 00:45:02,610
Speaker 1: Thanks for inviting us into your table.

982
00:45:02,730 --> 00:45:04,070
Speaker 4: We appreciate you. Anytime.

983
00:45:04,090 --> 00:45:05,410
Speaker 3: Do we get t-shirts or anything?

984
00:45:05,810 --> 00:45:07,750
Speaker 4: Absolutely, yeah. Let's go to the merch closet now.

985
00:45:09,410 --> 00:45:11,049
Speaker 1: We appreciate you, my friend. Thank you very much.

986
00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:11,640
Speaker 3: Likewise.

987
00:45:11,680 --> 00:45:13,180
Speaker 2: To our audience here at Built Different, I just want

988
00:45:13,200 --> 00:45:14,979
Speaker 2: to say thank you so much for joining us again.

989
00:45:15,469 --> 00:45:18,110
Speaker 2: God has a seat with your name on it at

990
00:45:18,430 --> 00:45:20,049
Speaker 2: his table every single day.

991
00:45:20,250 --> 00:45:21,370
Speaker 1: We love being a part of your life.

992
00:45:21,410 --> 00:45:22,009
Speaker 3: Thanks for joining us.