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Speaker 1: Life Audio.

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Speaker 2: Hi there, and welcome to the Praying Christian Women podcast.

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Speaker 2: I'm Jamie and today we are reaching back into the

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Speaker 2: archives again to an episode with one of my favorite

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Speaker 2: teachers on prayer who sadly passed away in twenty nineteen.

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Speaker 2: You might have heard of her. Her name is Jennifer

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Speaker 2: Kennedy Dean. She's the author of Live a Praying Life,

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Speaker 2: which is kind of her flagship book, but she wrote

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Speaker 2: so many other books. Unfortunately, Prayinglife dot org is no

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Speaker 2: longer active, so you can't go and get all of

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Speaker 2: her resources that she had on prayer, but you can

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Speaker 2: read her book. You can listen to this interview where

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Speaker 2: we talk about one of the age old questions of prayer,

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Speaker 2: which is if God already knows what he's going to do,

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Speaker 2: what's the point of praying? And Jennifer so beautifully goes

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Speaker 2: into this. This is just a snippet. We're getting the

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Speaker 2: tip of the iceberg in this interview. But if you

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Speaker 2: get her book Praying Life, Live a Praying Life, you

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Speaker 2: are not going to be disappointed. There's a book, there's

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Speaker 2: a work book, and it really takes you through. I mean,

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Speaker 2: it is, like I say in the interview it doesn't

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Speaker 2: bring scripture in, it is based on scripture. It is

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Speaker 2: so infused with scripture. And that was the love of

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Speaker 2: her life, was God's word and then applying it to prayer.

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Speaker 2: So I just hope that this episode is going to

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Speaker 2: bless you today. And I teared up a little bit

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Speaker 2: as I prayed for her in the end of this episode,

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Speaker 2: and just her heart's cry. Her prayer was that God

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Speaker 2: would just continue to give her an ability to express

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Speaker 2: biblical truths in a way, in a fresh way that

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Speaker 2: people could understand. And she does just that. But she

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Speaker 2: says something at the end about just God, open a

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Speaker 2: door and I'll walk through it. And in twenty nineteen,

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Speaker 2: God gave her that final door to walk through, and

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Speaker 2: she walked through it and she is with God and

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Speaker 2: glory now. And I just hope and pray that when

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Speaker 2: we pass that, when we come face to face with God,

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Speaker 2: that we have a moment to really see the ripple

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Speaker 2: effects of what we have done on this earth in Jesus' name,

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Speaker 2: because her reward in heaven is just great if that's

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Speaker 2: the case. So here's our conversation with Jennifer. I hope

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Speaker 2: you enjoy it, and I know you're going to be

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Speaker 2: blessed by it. Hi, guys, and welcome to a very

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Speaker 2: special episode of the podcast Today. I have with me

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Speaker 2: Jennifer Kennedy Dean. And Jennifer is the executive director of

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Speaker 2: the Praying Life Foundation. She's a respected author and speaker,

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Speaker 2: and she's an author of too many books to count,

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Speaker 2: Bible Studies, magazine articles specializing in prayer and spiritual growth.

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Speaker 2: So you can see why we wanted to have her

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Speaker 2: on the program today. And her book Hearts Cry has

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Speaker 2: been named the National Day of Prayers recommended resource. Her

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Speaker 2: book Living a Praying Life, which is just really amazing,

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Speaker 2: one of my favorites, is has been called a flagship

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Speaker 2: work on prayer, and Jennifer speaks all over the world

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Speaker 2: calling God's people to discover the difference between a prayer

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Speaker 2: life and a praying life, and I just really love that.

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Speaker 2: And also Jennifer. In two thousand and five, Jennifer was

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Speaker 2: widowed after twenty six years of marriage to Wayne Dean,

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Speaker 2: who is her partner in life and in ministry. And

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Speaker 2: their parents of three grown sons and now how many

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Speaker 2: grandkids Jennifer.

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Speaker 1: Seven and number eight is on the way.

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Speaker 2: Number eight is on the way. Congratulations and when when

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Speaker 2: is that going to happen?

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Speaker 1: Mid July?

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Speaker 2: Oh so it's come all right? Well, congratulations, thank you.

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Speaker 1: Well.

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Speaker 2: I want to give you all kind of the short

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Speaker 2: version of how this interview came about, because I just

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Speaker 2: felt like God really was behind this and his hand

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Speaker 2: was on it. A listener actually came away from the

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Speaker 2: Fatalism podcast or episode just a few weeks ago on

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Speaker 2: fatalism with some more questions about fatalism and really struggling

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Speaker 2: with as many of us do, with why should we

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Speaker 2: even pray if God already knows what He's going to do?

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Speaker 2: And I had just finished chapter one of Live a

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Speaker 2: Praying Life, which talks about why pray, and I just

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Speaker 2: felt like God just brought you to my mind. And

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Speaker 2: our listener even said, could you maybe interview an expert?

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Speaker 2: And so as soon as she said that, I thought,

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Speaker 2: I know who that I want to interview. And I

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Speaker 2: just thank you so much, Jennifer for being willing to

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Speaker 2: talk with us today.

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Speaker 1: So my pleasure.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So I just want to start out a little bit,

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Speaker 2: see if you could share a little bit about your

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Speaker 2: own journey that led you to this ministry of prayer

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Speaker 2: that you're involved in now.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So when I was growing up, my mother was

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Speaker 1: just a prayer warrior before prayer warriors were cool and

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Speaker 1: prayer was so oh. She was always searching, she was

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Speaker 1: always learning, she was always on a God adventure. And

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Speaker 1: when I was nineteen, my brother, who was seventeen, was

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Speaker 1: diagnosed with leukemia and prayer was the whole focus of

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Speaker 1: how my family responded and he passed away, and so

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Speaker 1: that left me in a crisis of all that prayer

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Speaker 1: and then he died anyway, and that is what launched

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Speaker 1: me into digging deeper understanding, figuring out what prayer is

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Speaker 1: and what does God promise through prayer. He does not

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Speaker 1: promise that every single thing you think up for him

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Speaker 1: to do he will do. That's not what he promises.

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Speaker 1: But the promise of prayer is spectacular. So I just

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Speaker 1: that's kind of the starting point and the question that

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Speaker 1: your listener has. We have all got to figure that out.

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Speaker 1: And sometimes we think that's a hard question. It might

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Speaker 1: be rude to ask God that because that might put

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Speaker 1: him on the spot, But turns out he knows the answer.

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Speaker 1: I love that.

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Speaker 2: And so you you kind of talk about you you

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Speaker 2: have a summary that I really loved in chapter one

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Speaker 2: of Live a Praying Life, you really had The thing

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Speaker 2: that I love the most about this book is that

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Speaker 2: it's so biblical. It's not even it doesn't even draw

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Speaker 2: scripture in it's based on scripture. So could you just

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Speaker 2: kind of talk a little bit about those biblical foundations

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Speaker 2: that you kind of came to as you did your research.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and let me just say about Live a Praying Life.

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Speaker 1: That's my that's my centerpiece, that's what I live for.

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Speaker 1: It's forty years of searching, so it's quite detailed. So

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Speaker 1: when I say that, it's not complicated, but it's like

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Speaker 1: pull every thread. So I'm not going to get into

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Speaker 1: all all the weeds. I'm not going to go every

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Speaker 1: place I go in detail. But let me give you

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Speaker 1: kind of an overview. Here's what you come to understand.

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Speaker 1: First of all, is God going to change his mind?

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Speaker 1: Because if he is, then that means he's kind of

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Speaker 1: flying by the seat of his pants, you know, kind

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Speaker 1: of making stuff up as he goes, and maybe he

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Speaker 1: could be influenced by someone who's very articulate or persuasive.

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Speaker 1: But the scripture tells us that God knows the end

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Speaker 1: from the beginning, and there's no point at which he's

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Speaker 1: going to say, oh, yes, your idea is better than mine.

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Speaker 1: And yet he has put prayer into the equation of

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Speaker 1: how our relationship works, so that prayer is essential. What

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Speaker 1: prayer does, It doesn't give God new information, It doesn't

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Speaker 1: make him want something he didn't want before. It doesn't

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Speaker 1: change his mind. But here's what it does. It reaches

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Speaker 1: over what the Scripture calls the gap. It is a

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Speaker 1: force that reaches over the gap, grabs hold of the

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Speaker 1: power and provision of God, pulls it through that gap

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Speaker 1: and brings it into the circumstances of Earth and the

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Speaker 1: scripture and in live a praying life. As you know,

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Speaker 1: I go into a lot of detail to help us

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Speaker 1: look through the totality of scripture, not making up a

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Speaker 1: prayer theology based on a verse here and a verse there,

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Speaker 1: but the fullness of scripture that shows us that that

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Speaker 1: that is exactly what God. What prayer does is it

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Speaker 1: it accesses all the power of Heaven for the circumstances

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Speaker 1: of Earth. Sometimes often when the power of God is

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Speaker 1: accessed in the circumstances of Earth, it doesn't look like

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Speaker 1: we would have scripted it to look it doesn't look

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Speaker 1: how we might have prescribed it to look. But it's

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Speaker 1: but we have to watch and wait and see what

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Speaker 1: God is doing and if we let things unfold. So

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Speaker 1: let me just go back to my brother. So all

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Speaker 1: the prayer for his healing, there was a year between

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Speaker 1: his diagnosis and his death. So many things happened in

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Speaker 1: that year. Relationships, people came to the Lord. Amazing things happened,

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Speaker 1: but he died. Now here's what I have come over

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Speaker 1: all these years to believe with all my heart that

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Speaker 1: was the best yes to his healing is healed. He

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Speaker 1: is healed. And you know, sometimes we just have these

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Speaker 1: very small definitions. Healing can only look one way. But

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Speaker 1: when you walk it out with God, when you live

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Speaker 1: a praying life, when you live in a relationship with Him,

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Speaker 1: you can come to trust that his yes is the

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Speaker 1: best Yes. It's not about belief in an outcome, It's

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Speaker 1: about faith in God. And I'm just real quickly, one

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Speaker 1: more thing. So forty five years later, adults who are

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Speaker 1: now becoming great grandparents whose lives were impacted by my

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Speaker 1: brother are different because of that very experience.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and in your book, I Love you have a

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Speaker 2: I think it's in live a praying life. You have

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Speaker 2: a diagram and I wish I had it to show

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Speaker 2: and maybe we'll I don't know, but you guys will

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Speaker 2: have to get the book. You really do. But it

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Speaker 2: looks at you know. Typically our perspective on prayer is

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Speaker 2: you have a prayer request and an answer, a prayer

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Speaker 2: request and an answer. But what we need to look

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Speaker 2: at is prayer request, prayer request, prayer request, and God

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Speaker 2: intervening through all of it. Like you have this arrow

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Speaker 2: going through every single thing. It's not one at a time.

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Speaker 2: Just like you can't take one verse of Scripture out

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Speaker 2: of context, you can't take one life event or even

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Speaker 2: prayer request out of the context of God's huge, unknowable,

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Speaker 2: unfathomable will.

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Speaker 1: And I love it. Yes, you can't define how God

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Speaker 1: has worked in your life by one circumstance. You can't

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Speaker 1: define it circumstance by circumstance. So you have an event

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Speaker 1: in your life and the outcome of it is not

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Speaker 1: what you hoped it would be. If you watch and

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Speaker 1: see how that positions you for the next thing God

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Speaker 1: is going to do, which trends you for the next

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Speaker 1: thing that's going to fall into place, and you get

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Speaker 1: down the road a little bit and you look back

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Speaker 1: and you say, oh, I see, I couldn't be here

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Speaker 1: if I'd never been there, and you just you trust

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Speaker 1: that God is working out a big plan.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, and our listener, you know, had several specific questions,

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Speaker 2: but in kind of wrapped up in that you know it. Well,

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Speaker 2: I'll just read this one little bit of of one

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Speaker 2: of the questions. She gave me permission to share. This

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Speaker 2: was addressed directly in your book. Actually, she says, since

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Speaker 2: I know that God already knows what's going to happen,

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Speaker 2: and I believe that He's already made decisions about things,

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Speaker 2: what good is it for me to pray about anything.

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Speaker 2: I've been reading through Leviticus numbers in Deuteronomy where Moses

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Speaker 2: prayed the Lord would not destroy his people, and the

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Speaker 2: Lord did change his mind change his mind. However, I

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Speaker 2: don't see that happening in the New Testament, where something

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Speaker 2: someone prayed God changed God's mind.

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Speaker 1: So, yeah, well, in living praying life, we just dive

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Speaker 1: right into that because once you look at God is

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Speaker 1: not going to change his mind, and you look at

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Speaker 1: the totality of what He's revealed about himself, God is

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Speaker 1: not a man that he should lie, or a son

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Speaker 1: of man that he should change his mind, and over

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Speaker 1: and over again. And then you say, oh, yeah, but

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Speaker 1: God changed his mind when Moses prayed. So again in

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Speaker 1: the study you're going to go into great detail, but

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Speaker 1: let me just give you an overview. First of all,

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Speaker 1: you understand that the Old Testament we are seeing, we

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Speaker 1: are being told the story as it looked from earth.

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Speaker 1: Every story looks different if you tell it how it

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Speaker 1: looks from heaven. Okay, so Moses, here's Moses, and the

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Speaker 1: people have turned away from God and they've earned for

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Speaker 1: themselves the wrath of God. They've earned death. That's what

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Speaker 1: sin earns, but God does. That is not what God

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Speaker 1: desires for them to receive. And so when God wants

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Speaker 1: to intervene and change the course events are taking on

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Speaker 1: their own, he calls an intercessor. So here comes Moses.

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Speaker 1: And you have to understand first of all, that Moses's

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Speaker 1: heart and God's heart are so closely entwined that the

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Speaker 1: heart of God has become the heart of Moses. And

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Speaker 1: you know that God does not want it is not

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Speaker 1: his desire for the people to get what they deserve.

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Speaker 1: Because of this, what they deserve. What they've earned is

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Speaker 1: I will destroy this nation, Moses and make a great

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Speaker 1: nation out of you. That's what they've earned. But God

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Speaker 1: doesn't want to destroy the nation and make a great

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Speaker 1: nation out of Moses, because Moses comes from the tribe

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Speaker 1: of Evi and the Messiah comes from the tribe of Judah.

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Speaker 1: So we know that that's not God's desire. So what

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Speaker 1: does he do. He places in the heart of Moses

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Speaker 1: his very own desire. Don't destroy the name, don't give

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Speaker 1: them what they deserve, or show them mercy instead. Now

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Speaker 1: do you think that God says, you're right? I don't

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Speaker 1: know what I was thinking. Thank you for keeping me

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Speaker 1: from making a mistake. No, no, no. It shows the

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Speaker 1: force of prayer and the necessity of prayer that though

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Speaker 1: God desires to bring mercy where judgment is coming, he

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Speaker 1: requires an intercessor to be in place to again reach

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Speaker 1: into the heavens, grab hold of his power and provision,

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Speaker 1: bring it into the circumstances of earth. And when you

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Speaker 1: put the whole picture together carefully, peace by peace, pulling

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Speaker 1: every thread as we go, you're going to see that

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Speaker 1: Moses did not change God's mind. Moses shared God's mind.

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Speaker 2: I think that was really the key that for me

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Speaker 2: just reading that because I struggle with fatalism and questions

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Speaker 2: of whether my prayers matter. I mean it really, it's

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Speaker 2: something everyone wonders. And when I read that, though, it

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Speaker 2: just gave me so much hope that sure God doesn't

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Speaker 2: change his mind, but he's chosen. I mean you say

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Speaker 2: this in your book. He has chosen to include us

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Speaker 2: for whatever reason. Why on earth you would do that,

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Speaker 2: we don't know, But He's chosen to include us in

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Speaker 2: this process of unleashing his power on earth. And kind

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Speaker 2: of like you said that, I don't the basically pulling

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Speaker 2: down some of those his will in heaven like Jesus said,

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Speaker 2: Thy Kingdom Come, they will be done on earth as

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Speaker 2: it is in heaven. And that gives me hope. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: because we're all intercessors.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, And imagine, now, let's think if God, because

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Speaker 1: really we're kind of a lot of trouble. So why

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Speaker 1: would God pull us into his activity through prayer? Why

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Speaker 1: wouldn't he just work around us and then that would

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Speaker 1: save him a lot of trouble? But he loves us

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Speaker 1: so much, wants us in a dynamic relationship with him.

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Speaker 1: My relationship that matters. So he has designed prayer so

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Speaker 1: that we are necessary to what he's going to do

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Speaker 1: on the earth. Has he calls us into his activity

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Speaker 1: by prayer. Think if he didn't do that, Think if

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Speaker 1: he did work around us instead of through us, we

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Speaker 1: would never see his hand. We'd just go that's way

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Speaker 1: I went. Well, that turned out okay. But when when

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Speaker 1: he imparts into our hearts, his heart, and by that

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Speaker 1: calls us into prayer, and then we see what we've

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Speaker 1: already seen in here happen out here. Yeah, we see

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Speaker 1: the hand of God.

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Speaker 2: So my podcast partner, Elana is a Christian fiction author.

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Speaker 2: So she writes basically about well many different things. But

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Speaker 2: one of the things that in one of her recent books,

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Speaker 2: it was called Abridge, and she there was a scene

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Speaker 2: it dealt with prayer where there's someone praying and that person,

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Speaker 2: you know, they start off not really knowing how to pray,

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Speaker 2: not having a clear answer one way or another. And

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Speaker 2: as they and another group of believers get together and pray,

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Speaker 2: their prayers start to take shape and it's like the

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Speaker 2: Holy Spirit begins to give them boldness in praying in

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Speaker 2: a certain direction. And so it's just really I think

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Speaker 2: we've all maybe experienced that a little bit, and so

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Speaker 2: I just I love that what you're saying and just

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Speaker 2: what your book has really encouraged me to do rather

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Speaker 2: than pray harder is to really listen and you do.

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Speaker 2: The one one other thing that I didn't really plan

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Speaker 2: to ask you about is you had a resource on

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Speaker 2: your website about listening the listening prayer, and so could

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Speaker 2: you just talk a little about that that I think

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Speaker 2: is really important for this because it sort of sets

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Speaker 2: the stage for having our hearts become God's what it

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Speaker 2: wants that about.

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Speaker 1: You know, one of the things we miss, we miss

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Speaker 1: is that the primary skill in prayer is not speaking,

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Speaker 1: it's listening. It's in the listening. The speaking is formed

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Speaker 1: from the Word of God. Listen for the Holy Spirit

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Speaker 1: to speak to you. And it's an it's a process,

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Speaker 1: it's an ongoing thing that in your continual walk with Him,

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Speaker 1: he begins to surface thoughts and ideas and shape and

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Speaker 1: mold prayers. And you know, and you don't always know,

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Speaker 1: like sometimes we think our inadequacy in prayers. I don't

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Speaker 1: know what to pray, so I can't pray, by which

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Speaker 1: we mean, I'm not sure what to tell God to do,

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Speaker 1: you know, but when we come to understand that the

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Speaker 1: name of Jesus, let your kingdom come, Let your will

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Speaker 1: be done on earth as it is, and those are

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Speaker 1: all the words you really need to get the job done.

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Speaker 1: But in the process of that intimacy of relationship, God

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Speaker 1: will begin to form prayers in you, and you will

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Speaker 1: have confidence and the understanding that that's what, not that

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Speaker 1: you have now figured out what God should do, but

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Speaker 1: that God has formed in your heart what has been

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Speaker 1: in his heart right.

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Speaker 2: And you know what Alana likes to say a lot

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Speaker 2: of times is we're not always going to get it

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Speaker 2: right when we're listening. You know, the closer you get

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Speaker 2: to God, the more you're looking to scripture, the more

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Speaker 2: you are going to get it right. But also to

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Speaker 2: give yourself that grace of you know what, there's a

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Speaker 2: mystery there that we're never going to figure out or

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Speaker 2: you know, pigeonhole. But yeah, but yeah, I love it.

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Speaker 2: So before we let you go, I just I wanted

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Speaker 2: to talk for a couple of minutes. Your book Heart's

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Speaker 2: Cry has been basically endorsed by the National Day of

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Speaker 2: Prayer as a resource that's worth reading. So how does

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Speaker 2: your book partner with the National Day of Prayer.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a it's a twelve it's a twelve week

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Speaker 1: and you can use it as a devotional book, a book,

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Speaker 1: or a Bible study. But it just it deals with

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Speaker 1: twelve aspects aspects of prayer, and it has discussion questions

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Speaker 1: and reflection questions, and so it's really just a resource

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Speaker 1: to help us understand that prayer is more than just

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Speaker 1: a day. The National Day of Prayer I love because

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Speaker 1: because we come together with one hard and there's this

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Speaker 1: great outpouring of prayer around the world, even but it's

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Speaker 1: certainly around the nation. But it's more than that. If

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Speaker 1: if all you do is pray on one day, then

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Speaker 1: you'll miss out on the whole thing. So it's just

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Speaker 1: a it's just a resource that is available to help

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Speaker 1: help you understand the bigger picture of prayer.

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Speaker 2: And what are some things that that we can do

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Speaker 2: on the National Day of Prayer? What are some some

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Speaker 2: death that you could suggest that we could do too.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, National Day of Prayer. Go to their website and

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Speaker 1: they have all kinds. You can be live at the

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Speaker 1: National Day of Prayer Commemoration in Washington, d C. I'm

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Speaker 1: usually there. I'm not going to be this year, but

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Speaker 1: it's very moving and wonderful. They have all kinds of

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Speaker 1: resources if you want to put together in your community

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Speaker 1: or in your church, your own way of getting together.

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Speaker 1: The main thing about Nation Day of Prayer is pray together.

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Speaker 1: There is power in praying together. But there are so

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Speaker 1: many digital digital ways to be participating, and then they'll

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Speaker 1: give you lots and lots of resources that you can

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Speaker 1: put together your own local observation.

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Speaker 2: All right, well, thank you so much. Well do you

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Speaker 2: have any specific prayer requests for yourself, for your ministry

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Speaker 2: or personal.

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Speaker 1: Well, I just you know, if my name comes to mind,

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Speaker 1: I just always want my heart and my life to

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Speaker 1: be open, to be able to hear new and fresh

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Speaker 1: word from the Lord, or a new and fresh way

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Speaker 1: to say old truths, and that he will just open

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Speaker 1: the doors he wants opened, and I will go through them.

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Speaker 2: Okay, if you don't mind, I'm going to say a

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Speaker 2: prayer for you before we go.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, Thank you God.

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Speaker 2: We just give you so much. Thanks just to see

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Speaker 2: your hand at work bringing Jennifer here and just her

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Speaker 2: willingness to share her time and her wisdom with us.

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Speaker 2: We lift her up to you, God, just praying that

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Speaker 2: you would continue to use her as a tool to

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Speaker 2: further your kingdom, to encourage people in their prayer lives,

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Speaker 2: and to just fight the lies that the enemy just

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Speaker 2: constantly throws out us about prayer and how powerless we feel. God,

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Speaker 2: I just pray that she would empower people to feel

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Speaker 2: embolden in their prayer lives. And we pray for just

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Speaker 2: a renewed vision and just continued inspiration that would come

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Speaker 2: through your Holy Spirit, that your words and ideas would

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Speaker 2: just flood her, that she would just continue to be

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Speaker 2: a vessel through which you bring glory to yourself and

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Speaker 2: minister to the body of Christ and Jesus' name. Amen.

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Speaker 1: Amen, thank you so much.

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Speaker 2: Well, thank you, Jennifer, Thank you so much for being here.

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Speaker 1: It's been a pleasure.

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Speaker 2: We'd like to take just a quick second to thank

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Speaker 2: the team at Life Audio for their partnership with us

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Speaker 2: on the podcast. If you go to lifeaudio dot com,

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Speaker 2: you will find dozens of other faith centered podcasts in

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Speaker 2: their network. They've got shows about prayer, Bible study, parenting,

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Speaker 2: and so much more. That's lifeaudio dot com.

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Speaker 1: I can't wave