Speaker 1: Welcome to today's podcast sponsored by Hillsdale College, All Things
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Speaker 2: In irandeworried right now.
Speaker 1: I would say he should be very worried.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he should be.
Speaker 1: As you know, they're negotiating with us. Morning Glory and
Speaker 1: evening Grace America. I'm Hugh Hewitt. That is President Trump.
Speaker 1: An hour ago, NBC News released that teaser talks have
Speaker 1: broken down. They've been they never began, but they've been canceled,
Speaker 1: is perhaps the right way to put it. And the
Speaker 1: cancelation of those talks suggests very much that the armada
Speaker 1: that is building, this immense gathering of American strength in
Speaker 1: the Middle East is going to be put to use.
Speaker 1: And I'm going to talk now with Majority Leader John
Speaker 1: Thune about that. Leader Thune, welcome. I want to begin
Speaker 1: by asking if you and Senator Cotton, who are two
Speaker 1: members of the Gang of Eight who get briefed on
Speaker 1: intelligence matters, have been briefed on anything yet about Iran.
Speaker 4: I think in some of the Gang of Eight meetings
Speaker 4: that it's been high level stuff.
Speaker 5: You but you know, I obviously don't talk a lot about.
Speaker 4: What it's said in those meetings, but I don't think
Speaker 4: a lot of specificity.
Speaker 1: I would say, what would you conclude from the cancelation
Speaker 1: of today's meetings and the dispatch of the George H. W.
Speaker 1: Bush carrier to join the Lincoln.
Speaker 4: I think that you know, obviously they're the administration perceives
Speaker 4: the Iranians to be escalating, and you know, clearly cutting
Speaker 4: off the talks was a was a huge signal that
Speaker 4: they were sending. But I think it's I mean, we've
Speaker 4: got to We've got a lot of interests to defend
Speaker 4: in that region of the world, and it has implications
Speaker 4: not just for that region of the world, but for
Speaker 4: the entire world, and so I think the President his
Speaker 4: team are right to take it seriously and to ensure
Speaker 4: that America's national security interests are protected there.
Speaker 1: Well, last question on Iron, mister leader, if we go
Speaker 1: to a battle with them, what is an acceptable conclusion
Speaker 1: of that battle from your perspective.
Speaker 6: Well, obviously, for me, you what would.
Speaker 5: Be regime change? I mean, I think you've got to
Speaker 5: get new leadership.
Speaker 4: And there's no guarantee that new leadership might be the
Speaker 4: answer either.
Speaker 5: I mean, we've seen that before in other places around
Speaker 5: the world.
Speaker 4: But I do think that the Iranian people are clamoring
Speaker 4: for a voice.
Speaker 5: In their government and for the.
Speaker 4: Same rights that people and freedom loving countries have around
Speaker 4: the world. And I think that's what we ought to
Speaker 4: be supportive of there, And so if that were an endgame,
Speaker 4: I think that would be at least a great starting place.
Speaker 1: We will pick it up from there. Next time we talk.
Speaker 1: I want to thank you, by the way, and congratulate
Speaker 1: you for getting the Defense appropriation built done as well
Speaker 1: as eleven of twelve appropriations built. Die, I don't remember
Speaker 1: the last time that that happens, so hack tip to
Speaker 1: you the leadership Chairwoman Collins, Senator Collins, of course, the
Speaker 1: leader of the Appropriations Committee. When was the last time
Speaker 1: that happened?
Speaker 6: You know, it's been a while, Hugh.
Speaker 4: I was actually ran into one of my former colleagues
Speaker 4: in the House of Representatives. We had come in together,
Speaker 4: you know, almost now thirty years ago, and he said,
Speaker 4: I think the last time we did all the appropriation
Speaker 4: bills was nineteen ninety six.
Speaker 1: Okay, well it's been a while. I've been doing this
Speaker 1: show for twenty five years, and I do not remember
Speaker 1: it ever happening before. So congratulations on that regular order
Speaker 1: is restored, except for the Department of Homeland Security. So
Speaker 1: I'd like to go there and ask you where the
Speaker 1: status is of those talks, what the Democrats are asking for,
Speaker 1: and whether or not we have creative ass facts.
Speaker 6: Well we do.
Speaker 4: I mean I think there are if you kind of
Speaker 4: put it into three categories, there are things administrations already
Speaker 4: doing which are significant, and there are a lot of
Speaker 4: the things.
Speaker 5: That Democrats have asked.
Speaker 4: Or then there are things you could do through that
Speaker 4: DHS funding bill that are funding oriented that you could
Speaker 4: you know, increase or withhold funds into.
Speaker 5: Certain categories of the DHS budget.
Speaker 4: But then there are the things that I think they want,
Speaker 4: which are policy changes. And if they're going to insist
Speaker 4: on any kind of policy changes, we're going to be
Speaker 4: at the table with ours two. Because I don't think
Speaker 4: we want we do not want these negotiations evolving into
Speaker 4: something that makes it harder to deport and detain dangerous
Speaker 4: illegal aliens.
Speaker 5: That are in this country.
Speaker 4: And so you know, that bill needs to be focused
Speaker 4: on protecting and ensuring that law enforcement officers are safe
Speaker 4: in their jobs able to do with the American people
Speaker 4: expect them to do, and to deport and detain dangerous
Speaker 4: illegal aliens. How you go about that matters, and I
Speaker 4: think Tom Holme has done a great job on the
Speaker 4: ground there of you know, sort of getting that situation
Speaker 4: a little bit more in a place that hopefully the Democrats.
Speaker 5: Ought to be pleased with.
Speaker 4: I mean, I just think of the things that have
Speaker 4: already been done here, including in the DHS funding bill,
Speaker 4: the original one which they I agree to and help negotiate,
Speaker 4: by the way, that it had a number of reforms
Speaker 4: in it, including body cameras, and then they walked away
Speaker 4: from it. And then they walked away from the two
Speaker 4: week funding bill, at least a lot of them did.
Speaker 4: And the two week funding bill is way too short.
Speaker 4: In the first place, I mean is.
Speaker 5: They don't know what they want.
Speaker 4: All they know is they want to fight Trump, and
Speaker 4: that to me is a really bad motivation and it's
Speaker 4: going to get them to make some bad decisions.
Speaker 5: Which I think they're doing well.
Speaker 1: I think they're in a box canyon out leader. I'm
Speaker 1: going to suggest that we Republicans offer them the Dreamers,
Speaker 1: which everybody in the country except five percent on each
Speaker 1: edge want to be done, along with the ability to
Speaker 1: cut off federal funding the sanctuary cities. Because sanctuary cities
Speaker 1: are a problem. They are a refuge for dangerous illegal
Speaker 1: immigrants and possibly even worse than criminals, maybe terrorists, and
Speaker 1: everybody wants the Dreamers done. We can flip the script here.
Speaker 1: Any conversation about that on the Hill.
Speaker 4: There are some conversations around that, And again I think
Speaker 4: if this does get if the Democrats were actually serious
Speaker 4: about negotiating, I think those are things that could be
Speaker 4: put in place. Certainly, as you know, there's a lot
Speaker 4: of interest on our side and doing the way with
Speaker 4: sanctuary cities, which, as you point out, is a huge problem,
Speaker 4: and I think the President has expressed in the past
Speaker 4: some interest in dealing with the dreamer issue. I think
Speaker 4: the president's in a position if he wants to to
Speaker 4: be the guy, because he is viewed as the person
Speaker 4: who closed and secured the border, could do something.
Speaker 6: On this issue.
Speaker 4: But in the end you got to have a willing partner,
Speaker 4: and I don't know.
Speaker 5: He's going to have that with the Democrats. We'll see.
Speaker 4: I mean, I think right now what I've suggested, and
Speaker 4: I think it's true, is if the Senate Democrats you
Speaker 4: don't want to make a deal here, they're going to
Speaker 4: have to sit down with the White House and figure
Speaker 4: out a path forward. But I don't think the Democrats
Speaker 4: know what they want. I mean they haven't. They haven't
Speaker 4: given us the list of their demands yet other than
Speaker 4: these vague categories. And I just think they're in a
Speaker 4: tough spot. But tsa FEMA, Coast Guard, cyber you know,
Speaker 4: assists of the cyber operations for the country are all
Speaker 4: in that bill, and if they decide to shut the
Speaker 4: government down, I think it's gonna it's gonna be very
Speaker 4: hard position to offend.
Speaker 1: Do they even have a lead negotiator, Leader Throne? Do
Speaker 1: they have someone that they've had you know, it's going
Speaker 1: to be Chuck Schumer is going to sit down with
Speaker 1: later Throne and the President to work this out? Or
Speaker 1: is it their appropriations? Vice Chair?
Speaker 3: What is it?
Speaker 4: They haven't said And we've been asking, you know, we've
Speaker 4: we've we've said we're prepared to negotiate the White House,
Speaker 4: is right, I believe.
Speaker 6: To sit down.
Speaker 4: Katie bred who chairs the subcommittee on Homeland on the
Speaker 4: Appropriations Committee, has sort of taken the lead role or
Speaker 4: at least as offered up, you know, the opportunity to
Speaker 4: sit down with them, whatever the Democrats want to put forward.
Speaker 4: And you know, obviously we will be engaged.
Speaker 5: I will be engaged in that as well.
Speaker 4: But you know, in the end, the Democrats have got
Speaker 4: to tell us what they want and be willing to
Speaker 4: negotiate with the White House.
Speaker 5: And at this point it seem like.
Speaker 4: They're more interested in having the issue than they aren't
Speaker 4: having a solution.
Speaker 1: Would you personally support a deal that included both the
Speaker 1: dreamers and a funding cutoff switch for sanctuary cities? And
Speaker 1: that might be one hundred percent, it might be fifty percent,
Speaker 1: it might be twenty five percent of all federal funds
Speaker 1: in all categories. I don't know what it is, but a.
Speaker 4: Trigger, yeah, I mean, let me think about that. I
Speaker 4: hate to, I mean to not negotiate in advance or
Speaker 4: negotiate against yourself so to speak, until we kind of
Speaker 4: figure out what the Democrats want.
Speaker 5: But I think like I said.
Speaker 4: I think there's some things that could be put on
Speaker 4: the table. This is a president who obviously likes to
Speaker 4: find solutions and is willing to go places that others haven't,
Speaker 4: and so let's see where the conversation goes.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I did the first Step Act in term one.
Speaker 1: A first Step Act on regularization would make a lot
Speaker 1: of sense to me. Let me close by asking you
Speaker 1: about the poor people at TSA. During the last shutdown,
Speaker 1: I was flying a lot and they were working without
Speaker 1: pay for a long time. Are they back in the
Speaker 1: same hopper again working without pay?
Speaker 6: Yeah? I mean that's that's the problem.
Speaker 5: Now. Fortunately, I mean that it falls on the.
Speaker 6: Pay period, so they probably paid for a couple of weeks.
Speaker 4: But if this continues, that's what's going to happen. In fact,
Speaker 4: I was just talking to one of my colleagues who
Speaker 4: flew in just you know, over on Monday here to
Speaker 4: come back into town and said he.
Speaker 6: Was asked by TSA.
Speaker 4: Agents at the airport, you know, are we going to
Speaker 4: be in this situation again where we don't know where
Speaker 4: the next paycheck.
Speaker 5: Is coming from.
Speaker 4: That's what the that's what the Democrats are. This is
Speaker 4: where this ends up, where this leads us, and again
Speaker 4: that's not a good outcome for anybody. So I hope
Speaker 4: they figure out what they want, are willing to sit down,
Speaker 4: negotiate in good faith, and let's see if there's a
Speaker 4: there there, But if not, at least helped let us
Speaker 4: fund these agencies with a continuing resolution.
Speaker 6: Until the end of the fiscal year.
Speaker 4: You know, at a minimum, they ought to be willing
Speaker 4: to do that.
Speaker 1: Majority Later, John, thank thank you for joining me. By
Speaker 1: the way, good luck to your South Dakota quarterback who's
Speaker 1: leaving the fabled Halls of Columbus for greener pastors. But
Speaker 1: good luck to Lincoln.
Speaker 5: He's a good quarterback.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's gonna be a great, great kid down there.
Speaker 1: Thank you, Leadership. Don't go anywhere, America. I'll be right
Speaker 1: back with Mary Katherine Ham. Then the one and only
Speaker 1: Brit Hume joins me for a long conversation about the
Speaker 1: President and Iron and about the Washington Post and about
Speaker 1: generally speaking, all the presidents that he has covered and
Speaker 1: how they have used force. Don't miss any part of that,
Speaker 1: and it rolls out throughout the today's program on the
Speaker 1: qqu AT Show. Welcome back, America. I'm to do it
Speaker 1: under the thone as usual. Not easy to pin down
Speaker 1: on stuff, but fun to talk to anyway, as is
Speaker 1: Mary Katherine Ham, host of Getting Hammered podcasts, which I
Speaker 1: listened to this morning on my way to the dentist
Speaker 1: Shin Vick Mattis for talking about their first cards, Mary Catherineham,
Speaker 1: if you had a nineteen sixty eight bug, was it
Speaker 1: held together with what don't exist anymore?
Speaker 7: I mean they did at the time.
Speaker 8: It was a little bit of a you know, work
Speaker 8: in progress.
Speaker 7: We had to keep it running, yes, for sure.
Speaker 1: Well, my first car, and I'm considerably older than you,
Speaker 1: since you're the age of my daughter. My first car
Speaker 1: was a nineteen seventy three Dodge Dart Sport with a
Speaker 1: racing stripe, I will tell you. And it was nice.
Speaker 1: It went until the frame cracked a two hundred and
Speaker 1: fifty thousand miles. Let me ask you what you and
Speaker 1: Vic did not talk about is your theory of cars
Speaker 1: as adults. Do you buy them used or new?
Speaker 8: Most of ours have been Well, I haven't had that
Speaker 8: many cars because I drive them until they die pretty much,
Speaker 8: or until I have more children and need a new
Speaker 8: car because I just can't fit anymore so, But I'm
Speaker 8: now on a plan of we buy usually new, try
Speaker 8: to negotiate well, and try not to have a long
Speaker 8: term loan on it Ramsey style.
Speaker 1: I buy lightly used cars, and I think I've persuaded
Speaker 1: all the kids to buy lightly used cars rather than
Speaker 1: lose forty percent of the value when they drive it
Speaker 1: off the lot. But then I never ever ever give
Speaker 1: them back. I'm still driving a twenty ten car that
Speaker 1: and it will drive forever, I think, because I'll pay
Speaker 1: the repair bills because it's free to me. Mary Catherine,
Speaker 1: you mentioned that you were a wrencher, in other words,
Speaker 1: a gear gal. How much actual work did you do
Speaker 1: on that bug?
Speaker 7: No, I didn't do a ton.
Speaker 8: I could change spark plugs, I can change brake pads
Speaker 8: if I really have to, and I regularly changed oil.
Speaker 7: Those are the three things that I could do well.
Speaker 1: Those are three things I've never done, not once on
Speaker 1: any car. So you're way ahead of me. What about Steve,
Speaker 1: the husband, have said Mary Catherine Ham.
Speaker 7: He knows his way around. I have not.
Speaker 8: Actually since we've been together, you know, we have newish cars,
Speaker 8: so there's not as much call to do anything. And
Speaker 8: this is one of the things that has changed about
Speaker 8: car culture. It's not easy to work on your car
Speaker 8: now because it's got eight thousand computers inside it, and
Speaker 8: you can't do what you used to be able to
Speaker 8: do when you could just figure things out.
Speaker 1: You are a do it yourself person and I am done.
Speaker 1: I believe in the in finding experts and have them
Speaker 1: come and then pay them. Does do the girls Do
Speaker 1: your kids have any knack for this yet? Because I
Speaker 1: believe it's either it's a genetic thing and I don't
Speaker 1: have the gene.
Speaker 8: Well, I will say that we train them to do
Speaker 8: household things right, so they're going to know when they
Speaker 8: get to college and they live with some hopeless roommate
Speaker 8: who can't do anything, They're going to know how to
Speaker 8: change the tank of the innards of their toilet tank.
Speaker 7: They're going to know how to patch holes and walls.
Speaker 8: They're going to know how to do some stuff, take
Speaker 8: out trash, put the dishwasher stuff away.
Speaker 7: I mean, they know how to do that kind of thing, in.
Speaker 1: Valuable skills that my children do not have as we
Speaker 1: did not have them. Now, Mary Catherine, we might be
Speaker 1: going to war as we speak. I'm going to go
Speaker 1: back to a very serious thing, then come back to
Speaker 1: a light hearted thing, and then a very serious thing.
Speaker 1: Do you think we're going to war where.
Speaker 3: They were on?
Speaker 8: I mean, it seems likely to me every time Trump
Speaker 8: says that he's going to do something that it is
Speaker 8: likely to happen. In the case of the Iranian protesters,
Speaker 8: he seemed very explicitly to encourage them. I know that
Speaker 8: not doing anything obvious doesn't mean that there aren't things
Speaker 8: going on behind the scenes, but I did feel like
Speaker 8: a pretty large promise was made to look out for
Speaker 8: those guys. And now many, many, many people are dead,
Speaker 8: and if he feels that he can support them by
Speaker 8: taking kinetic action, as they say, I think he might
Speaker 8: do that very well.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I did a long interview with Brit Hume before
Speaker 1: the program today, and Britt and I agree that if
Speaker 1: he doesn't do anything, he goes into the Obama category,
Speaker 1: gives away all the credibility he built up with Operation
Speaker 1: Midnight ham or Absolute Resolve, killing SOLEMANI, killing out Back Daddy.
Speaker 1: It all goes away if he doesn't do anything. Do
Speaker 1: you agree with that assessment?
Speaker 7: I agree with that. I think that's what he cares about.
Speaker 8: I think it is a danger for him, and I
Speaker 8: think it's something that's on his mind because he very
Speaker 8: much values that credibility to be able to make the
Speaker 8: call and follow through on it, and it ends very badly,
Speaker 8: as we saw with the Obama doctrine.
Speaker 7: If you let red lines just go right past.
Speaker 1: Now to a lighthearted subject. I'm intimidated by Brit Hume
Speaker 1: because he's been doing that. He's been a five star
Speaker 1: game forever. It's sort of like the Lebron Jaime of news.
Speaker 1: Do you have you done panels with him?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 8: And I would say the same, Hugh, because I've been
Speaker 8: watching him for years and trusting him and seeing him
Speaker 8: as someone I would like to emulate the best I
Speaker 8: can because I'm never going to be Brit Hume. But
Speaker 8: when I am on a panel with him, you know,
Speaker 8: I got to really I got to really bring my
Speaker 8: a game. But you can't get in your head because
Speaker 8: then you'll get too nervous.
Speaker 1: Yeah, trusting him, that's the key word. Trust. We also
Speaker 1: talked about the Washington Post, which is collapsing in real
Speaker 1: time before our eyes, and I feel bad about that,
Speaker 1: and he feels great regret about that. How do you
Speaker 1: feel about it?
Speaker 7: I don't love it.
Speaker 8: I do think that, even though I don't have rose
Speaker 8: colored glasses about the past and the way that news
Speaker 8: was covered, I do think newspapers. I grew up in
Speaker 8: a newspaper family, and my father was a newspaper editor.
Speaker 8: I think particularly local metro dailies.
Speaker 7: Were quite important.
Speaker 8: I think the newspaper fights between those local metro dailies
Speaker 8: meant that city and state government got covered in a
Speaker 8: much more thorough.
Speaker 7: Way than they do now, even if it was a.
Speaker 8: Little biased on state level, not as bad as it
Speaker 8: is on a national level. So I have some sadness
Speaker 8: about it. I'm an original, ink stained wretch. I worked
Speaker 8: in newspapers, and yet they have brought this on themselves.
Speaker 8: The industry has not adapted and has not maintained trust
Speaker 8: because it keeps handing out trust like it thought it
Speaker 8: was going to last forever on the advertising dollars of
Speaker 8: the year nineteen ninety eight, and once Craigslist came about,
Speaker 8: that wasn't going to happen anymore. And now you've got
Speaker 8: alternative media sources, with many of which I trust more
Speaker 8: than the Washington Post.
Speaker 1: Trust is the key word again. Now I want to
Speaker 1: close reething very scerious I spent a couple of hours
Speaker 1: yesterday very anxious because in my daughter's neighborhood in Virginia,
Speaker 1: it was believed that an eight year old had gone
Speaker 1: through the ice, and it was very, very worrisome for
Speaker 1: a couple of hours. It turned out not to have happened.
Speaker 1: Eight year old turning goodness, I know, but going through
Speaker 1: the ice is something I know about because I grew
Speaker 1: up in Ohio and ponds always froze. But you know
Speaker 1: you didn't go on the ice because you didn't know
Speaker 1: if you knew how to judge color. You take a
Speaker 1: broom out. Do southern people not know what northern people
Speaker 1: grow up with about ice, about sledding, about driving in
Speaker 1: the snow, all that sort of stuff.
Speaker 7: No, we know nothing.
Speaker 8: We know nothing, And I know my limitations, which is
Speaker 8: why when it's like this outside, I'm like, you won't
Speaker 8: see me going very far from the house.
Speaker 7: You won't see me going on great adventures.
Speaker 8: I consider myself not a very timid person, but when
Speaker 8: it comes to feats of winter Olympics style, it's not
Speaker 8: for me.
Speaker 7: It's not for me.
Speaker 1: Your girls know about not going on ice in nearby
Speaker 1: creeks and stuff like that. Now, you don't live in
Speaker 1: an area with a lot of water. You might maybe
Speaker 1: there's a lake in your area, but it's just not
Speaker 1: something that Southern kids ever learn to judge.
Speaker 8: Yeah, we don't really encounter it, and they wouldn't know
Speaker 8: based on color, how thick the ice was, or anything
Speaker 8: like that.
Speaker 7: But they are they're generally not risk takers.
Speaker 8: I should probably have a discussion with my younger two,
Speaker 8: who are risk takers.
Speaker 1: Oh, they didn't the rooms.
Speaker 8: They're not big enough to get where they would need
Speaker 8: to go to try this.
Speaker 7: But in the future we will have to have a
Speaker 7: discussion about that.
Speaker 1: All right, good, I'm bringing it up just so that
Speaker 1: the entire radio audience now knows, and those watching on
Speaker 1: the Sale News channel talk to your kids about ice.
Speaker 1: Don't let them go on the ice. That was a
Speaker 1: long two hours yesterday, Mary Katherine, I'm Getting Hammered is back.
Speaker 1: I loved it so much day I want people to
Speaker 1: go like and subscribe Getting Hammered. The car Talk edition
Speaker 1: is what we'll call that. They got the other stuff too,
Speaker 1: but the cartk edition was fabulous. Take care mk hammer,
Speaker 1: follow on x by the Way at mk Hammer, follow
Speaker 1: Vic at Victor Madison follow me to the next semment Morning,
Speaker 1: Glory and even Grace America. I'm Hugh Hughitt. I got
Speaker 1: to keep you up to speed with what is going
Speaker 1: on in the world. The canceled talks with Iran or
Speaker 1: back on because nine of our allies asked us to
Speaker 1: do it. I'm not sure it matters. John pod Horns
Speaker 1: joins me. He's editor of Commentary magazine. Follow him on
Speaker 1: EXI J pod Horts listening the Commentary Pod every day, John,
Speaker 1: I don't think this matters. What even a bit. I
Speaker 1: think we're going to have a battle with Iran. What
Speaker 1: do you think.
Speaker 9: I think that's likely because Iran is going to make
Speaker 9: it happen. That's this is the ball is now in
Speaker 9: Iran's court. So if they're going to have fire drones
Speaker 9: at us, if they're going to try to board our ships,
Speaker 9: we're gonna swat away the drones. We're going to ignore
Speaker 9: them on boarding our ships. But they not only do
Speaker 9: they not want these talks, they want to provoke us
Speaker 9: into fighting them, and so we're going to end up
Speaker 9: doing that. Even if there are signs that the administration
Speaker 9: seems kind of divided on whether or not to take
Speaker 9: the final steps.
Speaker 1: Earlier, in the first start of today's program, I had
Speaker 1: on the majority leader of thone and I began by
Speaker 1: asking him what the result of any battle ought to be?
Speaker 1: Can we play that clip for John? Last question on Iron,
Speaker 1: mister leader, if we go to a battle with them,
Speaker 1: what is an acceptable conclusion of that battle from your perspective?
Speaker 4: Well, obviously, for me, what would be regime change? I mean,
Speaker 4: I think you've got to get a new leadership. And
Speaker 4: there's no guarantee that new leadership might be the answer either.
Speaker 5: I mean, we've seen that before in other places around
Speaker 5: the world.
Speaker 4: But I do think that the Ranian people are clamoring
Speaker 4: for a voice and in their government and for the
Speaker 4: same rights that people and freedom loving countries have around
Speaker 4: the world. And I think that's what we ought to
Speaker 4: be supportive of there, so that we're an endgame, I
Speaker 4: think that would be at least a great starting place.
Speaker 1: John bod Ortz, I find that clarity to be refreshing.
Speaker 1: Regime change and decapitation is what I think. I would say.
Speaker 1: Just get rid of the Iatolas. I don't care if
Speaker 1: it's a general or not. Get rid of the Iotola.
Speaker 1: They're fanatics.
Speaker 9: There can be no other purpose for our military conflict
Speaker 9: with Iran but the ending of the mollocracy. What would
Speaker 9: be engaging with them for otherwise to teach them a
Speaker 9: lesson to who are we attacking? I mean, the only
Speaker 9: thing that we have to attack here is the regime
Speaker 9: that killed upwards of or may have killed as many
Speaker 9: as thirty thousand people in forty eight hours in an
Speaker 9: effort to stem a genuine nationwide revolt against their leadership.
Speaker 9: We wouldn't be exercising military options against Iran if there
Speaker 9: were no If there were, that's the only purpose that
Speaker 9: we have. And what regime change means, or decapitation means
Speaker 9: in this context is they're gotten rid of and then
Speaker 9: begins a new era in which we don't really understand
Speaker 9: what happens over the course of the following year. Is
Speaker 9: there a general who can take the place to someone
Speaker 9: come in? Is there some kind of a coalition of
Speaker 9: leader of this sort of dissident leaders until they can
Speaker 9: either write a constitution, come to new elections, or restore
Speaker 9: the old constitution that was in place before nineteen seventy nine.
Speaker 1: We don't really know that. But there is.
Speaker 9: Genuinely no purpose to kinetic military action of any kind
Speaker 9: that does not result in the regime being ended.
Speaker 1: I listened to yesterday poadcast of commentary podcast but Eli
Speaker 1: Lake explaining that Reza Pablobby has a thirty percent approval rating.
Speaker 1: It does. I don't have an opinion on who runs
Speaker 1: they They can't have nukes and they can't have ballistic missiles.
Speaker 1: That's my opinion. And we have other monarchies in the
Speaker 1: Gulf that are our allies, and we can have a
Speaker 1: monarchy in or a military hunta provided they don't threaten
Speaker 1: the world with fanaticism. Is that a fair accurate statement
Speaker 1: of our minimum demand on Iran? No more fanatics? It's
Speaker 1: totally fair. This regime has been a place for forty
Speaker 1: seven years. Around forty seven years, right, so what is
Speaker 1: it done?
Speaker 9: Caused a war with Iraq that cost a million or
Speaker 9: two million.
Speaker 1: Lives over eight years.
Speaker 9: Still the world's premier state sponsor of terrorism, killed a
Speaker 9: thousand Americans in Iraq, you know, suppressed revolt after revolt
Speaker 9: after revolt, and then of course organized this twenty year
Speaker 9: effort in the north, from the north end, from the
Speaker 9: from the coast of the Mediterranean to destroy Israel and
Speaker 9: you know, take over Lebanon and take over Syria and
Speaker 9: all of that. It has been nothing but an evil
Speaker 9: actor for almost half a century. So it being gone
Speaker 9: is a net benefit to the world no matter who
Speaker 9: replaces it, because, as I think Eleanna Johnson said on
Speaker 9: our podcast today, whoever replaces it.
Speaker 1: Can't be worse.
Speaker 9: It can't be worse like literally, no regime can be
Speaker 9: worse than this regime has been for a half century.
Speaker 9: And of course I didn't even mention taking our hostages
Speaker 9: and holding them for four hundred and forty four days.
Speaker 1: And you didn't mention the mat and you didn't mention
Speaker 1: Kobar Towers, and you didn't mention the Argentina Jewish Center,
Speaker 1: and you didn't mention there so.
Speaker 3: Many there are so many.
Speaker 9: Yeah, it's impossible to enumerate the evil that this regime
Speaker 9: is done outside its borders and inside its borders.
Speaker 1: So if there's a partner, I made the argument, there's
Speaker 1: also only one power in the world that can punish
Speaker 1: them for a slaughter the magnitude of which has not
Speaker 1: been rivaled in my lifetime, not anything remotely. Tannem And
Speaker 1: Square was perhaps four thousand people, minimum thirty thousand people slaughtered,
Speaker 1: mostly teenagers and college students, young people. I don't think
Speaker 1: the West can just walk away from that. It's got
Speaker 1: to be traumatic inside of Iran. But we are apparently
Speaker 1: indifferent to it in the legacy media.
Speaker 9: I mean, that's we are, and obviously so are the
Speaker 9: celebrities who said nothing about it after you know, talking
Speaker 9: about ice and talking about Gaza. Nobody at the Grammys,
Speaker 9: nobody at these awards ceremonies is saying boo about this
Speaker 9: massacre of you know, thirty thousand people or more that
Speaker 9: took place just on January eighth and ninth. So, yes,
Speaker 9: there is a kind of weird blind eye being turned
Speaker 9: to this, and yet we are the only people who
Speaker 9: can punish them for this barbaric evil. It is not
Speaker 9: necessary to our national interests that we do that. But
Speaker 9: once we started down this road and the President started
Speaker 9: saying he was going to punish them, and that we
Speaker 9: are you know, going where we're going. I don't even
Speaker 9: understand what the negotiations are for. Are we negotiating?
Speaker 1: I had britt him on before the show. I'm playing
Speaker 1: the tape out in the course of the program, and
Speaker 1: Bridd said, after a build up of this sort and
Speaker 1: the statements that have been made. He has to use
Speaker 1: the military there now. I'm aware of the threat, the
Speaker 1: Sheffield threat. You know when Argentina hit a British ship
Speaker 1: during the Falklands I'm aware that they could hit our
Speaker 1: bases and Americans can die in our military is and harms. Way,
Speaker 1: I don't think President Trump cannot do anything now without
Speaker 1: losing all of the credibility built up with Solimani albag
Speaker 1: Dottie Midnight Hammer and absolute result. Do you agree with
Speaker 1: that if he walks away now, he's back in the
Speaker 1: Obama lane.
Speaker 9: I think that's pretty true. And look, remember the Iranian
Speaker 9: timeline is on it. The Iranians have a different perspective
Speaker 9: on us and our involvement in the Middle East than
Speaker 9: we have. We think that we were engaged in a
Speaker 9: war with Iraq in two thousand and three with the
Speaker 9: Saddam Hussein regime. The Iranians think that they beat us
Speaker 9: in Iraq. The Iranians think that they after the war
Speaker 9: was over, they stimulated a civil war.
Speaker 1: This happened. That happened.
Speaker 2: The other happened.
Speaker 9: They hit us and killed our people in within the
Speaker 9: borders of Iraq without any response and without any complaint
Speaker 9: public complaint, although people did mention it in congressional testimony
Speaker 9: and things like that, and they may look at us,
Speaker 9: with the exception of the Solmani assassination and the obviously
Speaker 9: the strike in midnight Hammer and say, you know what,
Speaker 9: we talk a good game, and once we really hit
Speaker 9: them hard, but you know, they just stick at it
Speaker 9: and we'll go away because we don't have the stomach
Speaker 9: to face them.
Speaker 1: And Trump needs to prove them wrong. I think he
Speaker 1: did last question John Podhortz, and maybe he discussed it
Speaker 1: this money. I'll be listening to commentary tonight. What is
Speaker 1: the window here for timely action? I think it's to
Speaker 1: the middle of March, or however long it takes to
Speaker 1: get every fad battery and Patriot battery over there to
Speaker 1: protect Israel and our allies and the Gulf. So I'm
Speaker 1: not really concerned about tomorrow. What do you think we
Speaker 1: got about a minute?
Speaker 6: Yeah, I would say we have.
Speaker 9: I mean, in some sense we have all the time
Speaker 9: in the world, by which I mean if we have
Speaker 9: determined that the regime must go, and there's no immediate
Speaker 9: reason that the regime.
Speaker 1: Must go, we could do it today. We could do
Speaker 1: it in March.
Speaker 9: We could do it in May as long as we
Speaker 9: are assured of succes. So that may be the thing
Speaker 9: that's holding the president back is the decision to ratchet
Speaker 9: up the percentage chance of success from eighty eight percent
Speaker 9: to ninety six percent, and then he'll go.
Speaker 1: I think that's well said, and at the same time
Speaker 1: defend our people, our military, and our allies as much
Speaker 1: as possible by letting them know this is what we're
Speaker 1: going to do. We're not going to tell you when
Speaker 1: be ready. John bod Ortz, I can't wait to listen
Speaker 1: to the Commentary podcast today. All of you ought to
Speaker 1: like and subscribe Commentary. You'll be smarter every single episode
Speaker 1: that you listen to. It's available on YouTube. It's also
Speaker 1: available on iTunes and Spotify. Thank you, John, Follow me
Speaker 1: X by the way, Jay Podhortz. I'll be right back
Speaker 1: in America at Stay tuned. Welcome back in America. I'm
Speaker 1: do it in Early Factor Studio West. I'm joined by
Speaker 1: one of the West great governors, Governor Greg g and
Speaker 1: Forte of Montana. Governor, welcome back to the program. I
Speaker 1: understand Erica Kirk is in the Big Sky state today.
Speaker 1: What's that all about.
Speaker 10: Well, we were thrilled to have Erica Kirk here. We've
Speaker 10: been promoting Turning Point USA's program to help get high
Speaker 10: school students to love America.
Speaker 2: This is called Club America.
Speaker 10: Twelve percent of all the high schools in Montana have
Speaker 10: a Club America. These are really civics organizations, and we
Speaker 10: stated very clearly Erica Kirk was here to support the
Speaker 10: effort that we want a Club America chapter in every
Speaker 10: single high school in the state of Montana.
Speaker 1: So what is Club America set out to do? Governor?
Speaker 1: Is it a bipartisan or a neutral as to R
Speaker 1: and D civics course or is it center right?
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 10: This is about American exceptionalism, our founding fathers, and engagement
Speaker 10: with our community. So it teaches young kids, mostly conservative
Speaker 10: of kids that love America to have a peer group
Speaker 10: so they can support each other get involved in community service.
Speaker 10: Whereas Turning Point has their college campuses those lean more
Speaker 10: a little more political, the high school chapters are really
Speaker 10: focused on civics education, limited government, and American values.
Speaker 1: Kevinor, I've always been when I've talked to young people,
Speaker 1: a big advocate of speech and debate only because they
Speaker 1: actually have to stand up and learn something about the
Speaker 1: way the country is working. For exact, we're about to
Speaker 1: go to into a battle with Iran, I think, and
Speaker 1: I want to get your opinion on that in a second,
Speaker 1: and I think speech and debate is probably the best
Speaker 1: way to do it. But Club America would be a
Speaker 1: good option. Have the principles and the teachers been open
Speaker 1: to it.
Speaker 2: Well, we had a young lady, Naomi.
Speaker 10: She spoke to the group, we had about seventy these
Speaker 10: high school students here at the Capitol today along with
Speaker 10: Erica Kirk and other representatives, and she said that she
Speaker 10: had to.
Speaker 2: Fight her way through to get a charter in her
Speaker 2: high school. We're hoping with.
Speaker 10: Our advocacy to provide a little air cover for him
Speaker 10: so it's easier for these high school students to start
Speaker 10: these chapters.
Speaker 1: You know, our mutual friend, the late Foster Freeze, was
Speaker 1: a big force behind Charlie getting started. I'm glad to
Speaker 1: hear Erica is back in Montana picking up the baton
Speaker 1: in that great state, the very patriotic state to begin with.
Speaker 1: I just can't imagine Montana would not want to put
Speaker 1: its arms around Club America.
Speaker 2: Well, we're going to have one in every high school.
Speaker 10: And as you know, I mean you've known, you knew
Speaker 10: Charlie for a long time.
Speaker 2: I did as well.
Speaker 10: Foster, I understand, wrote Charlie his first check when Charlie
Speaker 10: trapped him in a stairwell at some national convincement.
Speaker 2: Charlie told me a number of years ago, as we've had.
Speaker 10: Him to our home many times, Charlie and I spent
Speaker 10: three days hiking and hunting in the mountains of Montana together,
Speaker 10: just the two of us.
Speaker 2: He told me. My wife and I.
Speaker 10: Wrote after Foster, we wrote Charlie his second check. Am
Speaker 10: I Good fourteen years ago to help Turning Point get started.
Speaker 2: And we just we love the organization. We love it.
Speaker 2: It embraces American values, and you know.
Speaker 10: It has just exploded since his assassination. And I'm so
Speaker 10: proud of Erica, both the message she sent to America
Speaker 10: around forgiveness and walking out her faith in what she
Speaker 10: did in that memorial service in Phoenix. We were right
Speaker 10: there in the near the front row, and continues to
Speaker 10: do and it's difficult, but she is persevering because for her,
Speaker 10: it's truly a calling to reclaim America for conservative values.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've never met Erica Kirk and I just admire
Speaker 1: her courage from Afar and the fact that she picked
Speaker 1: up the flag and carrying it forward. Now, Governor, I
Speaker 1: want to draw on your experience in Congress as well
Speaker 1: as no doubt the National Guard in Montana has had
Speaker 1: to deploy before. Looks like we're about to go to
Speaker 1: war with Iran. Is that how you're reading this situation.
Speaker 10: It does not appear that Iran is willing to come
Speaker 10: to the table and do the things they must do.
Speaker 2: I mean, I think the.
Speaker 10: President has laid out the terms very clearly, no nukes
Speaker 10: and you got to stop killing your people. The President
Speaker 10: is the master of the deal, but the terms are
Speaker 10: on the table. The Iranians need to pick them up.
Speaker 1: That is well said, Governor, and I'm going to leave
Speaker 1: it right there because that's what John Thune said apparently
Speaker 1: in the Mountain West People Prize Clarity interactions. So I
Speaker 1: appreciate that. Governor Greg Janforte, thank you for joining me today.
Speaker 1: I appreciate it very very much. I want to play
Speaker 1: again for all of you just tuned in. Here is
Speaker 1: what John Thune said to me earlier today on this
Speaker 1: program about Iran. Can you play it for me this
Speaker 1: question on Iran, mister Leader, If we go to a
Speaker 1: battle with them, what is an acceptable conclusion of that
Speaker 1: battle from your perspective?
Speaker 6: Well, obviously for me, you what would be regime change?
Speaker 5: I mean, I think you've got to get new leadership.
Speaker 4: And there's no guarantee that new leadership might.
Speaker 6: Be the answer either.
Speaker 4: I mean, we've seen that before in other places around
Speaker 4: the world. But I do think that the Iranian people
Speaker 4: are clamoring for a voice and in their government and
Speaker 4: for the same rights that people and freedom loving countries
Speaker 4: have around the world. And I think that's what we
Speaker 4: ought to be supportive of there, and so that we're
Speaker 4: an endgame, I think that would be at least a
Speaker 4: great starting place.
Speaker 1: I think that's the kind of clarity we need. I
Speaker 1: appreciate greatly that the majority of Leader was that blunt.
Speaker 1: A lot of people hate the term regime change because
Speaker 1: they attribute to it. It's like talking about regularization for dreamers.
Speaker 1: They attribute to whatever it is you're saying qualities that
Speaker 1: are not there. We don't want to run around and
Speaker 1: I am completely indifferent too. Takes over Iran provided they
Speaker 1: do not threaten their neighbors, do not kill their people,
Speaker 1: do not threaten Americans, and are not theological fanatics possessed
Speaker 1: of a millenarium end Times vision about the twelfth amount.
Speaker 1: And as John Bodortz at the beginning of this program,
Speaker 1: they have been about this project for forty seven years.
Speaker 1: I've watched it from the beginning. I'll talk with brit
Speaker 1: Hume about it in hour three. There is no getting
Speaker 1: away from the fact that regime is never ever going
Speaker 1: to change until it has changed from outside. And we
Speaker 1: are the people, probably along with Israel, maybe along with
Speaker 1: other Gulf states, to make that change and decapitate the regime.
Speaker 1: And I don't know that we want to have anyone
Speaker 1: on the ground. Ever, the Iranian people will sort it out,
Speaker 1: and the Iranian military should come to their aid in
Speaker 1: doing so, the regular army, not the IRGC. But you
Speaker 1: murder thirty thousand people, there is nothing you won't do.
Speaker 1: So they can't have ballistic missiles, they can't have nuclear weapons,
Speaker 1: they can't continue to assault people around the world as
Speaker 1: they have for a half century. And I'm glad, well,
Speaker 1: this is what Donald Trump told NBC earlier today. CUTT
Speaker 1: number ten.
Speaker 2: Should the Supreme Leader in Iran be worried right now, I.
Speaker 3: Would say he should be very worried.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he should be, as you know they're negotiating with
Speaker 1: I think very worried is the right thing. Coming right
Speaker 1: back America.
Speaker 3: Oh beautiful day.
Speaker 9: I'm just so glad of a leaf.
Speaker 1: Quarter back America. That is jelly Roll, of course, And
Speaker 1: jelly Roll was honored at the Grammys, which were mostly
Speaker 1: noted for how stupid they were, But jelly Roll was
Speaker 1: actually quite inspirational. I know about that. I didn't watch
Speaker 1: it because of a column by my guest Selena Zito,
Speaker 1: who joins me. Now, Hi, Selena, anybody interesting talk to
Speaker 1: you recently?
Speaker 3: Oh?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just.
Speaker 11: Talked to the President of the United States.
Speaker 1: So what's on the president's mind as we get close
Speaker 1: to war? Can you tell us? I don't want obviously,
Speaker 1: you can't break comment.
Speaker 11: I cannot tell you other than it has to do
Speaker 11: with the great state of Ohio.
Speaker 1: Well, I hope he's going, and I hope if he's going,
Speaker 1: you're going, And I hope if you're going, you'll tell
Speaker 1: me about it.
Speaker 2: Of course.
Speaker 1: Okay, it was a grand column about jelly Roll. By
Speaker 1: the way, how long did you talk to the president.
Speaker 11: For about fourteen minutes.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's always kind of fun the interview. You
Speaker 1: have to have talked to the president because then it
Speaker 1: proves to my audience in fact, she is the president's
Speaker 1: favorite journalist. I believe it's a matter of statistical proof.
Speaker 1: Number of minutes spent in conversation with a journalist on
Speaker 1: the record is Selena Zito And you can tell by Butler.
Speaker 1: So Selena tell people about Jelly Roll and I honestly
Speaker 1: didn't know anything about him ntil I read your column.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, he.
Speaker 11: I have been a really big fan of his, not
Speaker 11: just because of his sound. He has a unique sound,
Speaker 11: sort of in the way that Johnny Cash had a
Speaker 11: unique sound when when he first came on on the
Speaker 11: scene back in the sixties, fifties and sixties. But he
Speaker 11: This is a story of redemption. This is a This
Speaker 11: is a young man from from Tennessee who, as he
Speaker 11: calls himself, trader, part trash and grew up surrounded by addiction,
Speaker 11: became addicted himself, found himself in jail, found himself not
Speaker 11: a good guy, who found Jesus and is so grateful
Speaker 11: that his life has turned around that when he received
Speaker 11: his Award on Sunday night that that he didn't say
Speaker 11: the word I at all other than when he said, like.
Speaker 3: I have not been a good person.
Speaker 11: But he talked about we.
Speaker 2: And he and he.
Speaker 11: He gave thanks to God, and he gave thanks to
Speaker 11: his family, and he gave thanks to his fans and
Speaker 11: showed this gratefulness that we don't see a lot in
Speaker 11: our culture. And it was such a powerful moving moment.
Speaker 11: And he held up his little red Bible and he said,
Speaker 11: there were times in my life where all I have
Speaker 11: was this little red Bible and a radio about the
Speaker 11: same size, and that's what got me through it. And that,
Speaker 11: by the grace of God, here a mine.
Speaker 1: So Selena, I'm interested in this for a couple of reasons. One,
Speaker 1: the only story I saw about the Emmys was about
Speaker 1: you can't be a legal on Stolen Land by Billy
Speaker 1: and I thought to myself, this was a dumb show.
Speaker 1: So did anyone notice Jelly role other than you?
Speaker 11: The middle of the country did for sure. Right where,
Speaker 11: no matter what your faith is, your belief in God
Speaker 11: and faith is often central to your life and how
Speaker 11: you get through your daily life and the people that
Speaker 11: support you, whether they're family, whether they're spouses, whether their community,
Speaker 11: and it was just it is such an un heralded
Speaker 11: characteristic that you hear coming from people in Hollywood, and
Speaker 11: but yet it is something that is very important to
Speaker 11: those of us who live in the middle of the country.
Speaker 1: All those those are church, those who believe in Jesus,
Speaker 1: or who believe in God, or just generally have even
Speaker 1: an ethical view of the world, might be indeed inspired
Speaker 1: by that. I'm not surprised it did not get picked
Speaker 1: up by legacy media. I'm so glad you wrote that
Speaker 1: column because I would never have known that that happened, because,
Speaker 1: like most of America, you couldn't pay me to watch
Speaker 1: the Grammys. Now, Selena, I want to turn to your
Speaker 1: telephone friend. I don't know if you talked about Iran,
Speaker 1: so I'm not asked can you to quote him? But
Speaker 1: what do you think is happening here?
Speaker 11: I think, much like with what happened in Venezuela, will
Speaker 11: know it when it happens. He for as much for
Speaker 11: as transparent as Trump is, for as much as we
Speaker 11: seem to think we know and understand his every thought,
Speaker 11: there are many things that happened in the back channel
Speaker 11: that he comes close to his vest and we find
Speaker 11: out when we find out, and I believe that that's
Speaker 11: what's going to happen with Iran.
Speaker 1: Next hour, I'm going to play part of an interview
Speaker 1: I did with great humor earlier today in which he
Speaker 1: says media has so missed and misunderstood President Trump because
Speaker 1: of how loud he is and how out of that
Speaker 1: mold he is, that they don't really cover what he does.
Speaker 1: And it resonated with me. Does that resonate with you?
Speaker 3: Yeah, it absolutely does.
Speaker 11: I mean, he was triumphant at Davos, and because he
Speaker 11: was so loud, it's because he was so outside the
Speaker 11: it was covered as though it was a failure. But
Speaker 11: the things that he got down at Gabos are are
Speaker 11: absolutely unbelievable, and the relationships that were formed there. But
Speaker 11: because my profession fails to understand how he does what
Speaker 11: he does blows my mind. And I really want to
Speaker 11: make this point. Do you remember when Barack Obama came
Speaker 11: out in two thousand and seven, two thousand and eight,
Speaker 11: and everybody, every journalist, ran to get his book right
Speaker 11: and dive into them and just you know, pick it
Speaker 11: apart and talk about how brilliant he was and how
Speaker 11: it got inside who he was. Had anybody gotten and
Speaker 11: read Trump's book Are of the Deal? Because it's all
Speaker 11: in there, and it frustrates the heck out of me
Speaker 11: that nobody says, oh, this is how he operates.
Speaker 1: It's true.
Speaker 3: Read it.
Speaker 1: Very unfortunate for the people of Iran who got murdered
Speaker 1: by these fanatics they didn't read it before they did that.
Speaker 1: Because what is coming, I think is as certain as
Speaker 1: I think Eisenhower said, as certain as sunrise follows night.
Speaker 1: What is coming to Iran is certain. I don't know when,
Speaker 1: I don't know how, and I know it's dangerous for
Speaker 1: our military. I don't take it lightly, but I think
Speaker 1: it's certain. Selena Zito always good to talk to you.
Speaker 1: Follow her on exat Zito Selena Zito Selena, or go
Speaker 1: and just sign up for all of her columns at
Speaker 1: Selenazito dot com or website. And the next time that
Speaker 1: we have an interview scheduled, I think the President will
Speaker 1: probably call you again right beforehand, so that we have
Speaker 1: to worry about dumping out of the interview and finding
Speaker 1: something else to play b well. Selena author of the
Speaker 1: best selling Butler, and she's going to tell me about
Speaker 1: Ohio when I'm allowed to know about Ohio, not before.
Speaker 1: I would trust Selena with anything off the record. Don't
Speaker 1: go anywhere America. I'm coming right back morning or eating
Speaker 1: grace in America. I'm Hugh Hewett. I'm joined by Ambassador
Speaker 1: Robert Shie O'Brian. Ambassador O'Brien was the National Security advisor
Speaker 1: for President Trump in the first term. He joins me
Speaker 1: on a very portentious day, mister ambassador, you're watching the news.
Speaker 1: What do you think looms ahead with Iran?
Speaker 12: Well, I think the President is going to hit around
Speaker 12: and he's given her He's very predictable. He gives these
Speaker 12: bad guys a chance to do the right thing. When
Speaker 12: they don't, he hits them, and he hits them hard.
Speaker 12: And he's given the Iranians a chance to give up
Speaker 12: their original program, which is a bare minimum for the
Speaker 12: United States.
Speaker 3: We have to have a nuclear free.
Speaker 12: Ad He's given her a chance to give their ballistic
Speaker 12: missile program, and they've use US missiles to hit him
Speaker 12: Eric Basis and to trialize some friends in the region.
Speaker 12: And he's given a chance to stop supplying the huties
Speaker 12: and the headline and amas with the weapons of bass
Speaker 12: destruction to hit America. So he's got three opportunities, and
Speaker 12: I think they're gonna they're gonna turn it.
Speaker 1: Turn it down now, mister ambassador, the when you were
Speaker 1: with the President, he did strike Sulimani, and he didn't
Speaker 1: give any warning about that unless it was given through
Speaker 1: back channels. This is very very loud and clear, in fact,
Speaker 1: so clear. Here's what Senator John Thune told me the
Speaker 1: majority leader of the Senate earlier in the program today.
Speaker 1: Let's play that for Ambassador O'Brien. Last question on iron,
Speaker 1: mister leader, if if we go to a battle with them,
Speaker 1: what is an acceptable conclusion of that battle from your perspective?
Speaker 6: Well, obviously, for me, what would be regime change.
Speaker 4: I mean, I think you've got to get a new
Speaker 4: leadership and there and there's no guarantee that new leadership
Speaker 4: might be the answer either. I mean, we've seen that
Speaker 4: before in other places around the world. But I do
Speaker 4: think that the Iranian people are clamoring for a voice and.
Speaker 5: In their government and for the same.
Speaker 4: Rights that people in freedom loving countries have around the world,
Speaker 4: and I think that's what we ought to be supportive
Speaker 4: of there.
Speaker 1: So I'm mister ambassador, what do you think about regime change?
Speaker 12: Yeah, So later though, it was absolutely right, and Santa
Speaker 12: Too hit the nail on the head. This is a
Speaker 12: government that's been at war with America for fifty years, Hugh.
Speaker 12: I mean they started out their regime by taking our
Speaker 12: amplomat's hostage for four hundred and forty four days, right
Speaker 12: to humiliated the United States of America. Certainly Jimmy Carter.
Speaker 12: They did in a continue too, bombed our embassy in
Speaker 12: Beirut through the heads blow the Party.
Speaker 3: Of God which they founded in Lebanon.
Speaker 12: They then killed two hundred and forty one Marines at
Speaker 12: the Marine barracks and beaut the largest loss of life
Speaker 12: of the marine course in tb with Regima.
Speaker 3: They then hit.
Speaker 12: Kobar towers and hit our soldiers in Marriman and Saudi Arabia.
Speaker 12: They killed hundreds, if not thousands of the U. S.
Speaker 12: Soldiers and who were having to bring democracy to Iraq.
Speaker 12: And they're threatening even today to kill the President of
Speaker 12: the United States. So this is a governments of war
Speaker 12: with America, and the only way to the war is
Speaker 12: in that government.
Speaker 1: Is there in your mind a preferred successor at many
Speaker 1: I mean the president has said nothing about the Crown Prince,
Speaker 1: he said nothing about the Iranian army. He said nothing
Speaker 1: about anything, just that they have to they're not going
Speaker 1: to give up their missiles. And that means regime change.
Speaker 1: What do you want to see happen there afterwards?
Speaker 12: As the leader that will respect their rights and not
Speaker 12: kill them and hang them and and kill the women
Speaker 12: for not where he's come, and kill gays for being
Speaker 12: who they are and hanging out from cranes. I mean,
Speaker 12: this is a very evil regime, perhaps most evil regime
Speaker 12: in the world. I mean, think about it. They killed
Speaker 12: over thirty thousand people last week or two weeks ago.
Speaker 12: That's many more times than the Chinese kill and tim
Speaker 12: and square there. These people deserve to go. And it's
Speaker 12: not to say their own people that they've killed. They've
Speaker 12: killed thousands of Americans. To me, the essence of America
Speaker 12: first is defending the American people. And I think as
Speaker 12: was press Trumpolis and defending the American people means this
Speaker 12: regume goes who the Iranian people select after, whether it's
Speaker 12: the conference and he suggests that he'd come in in
Speaker 12: a temporary role and oversee a transition to democracy.
Speaker 3: Or if they turn to a general or a civil leader.
Speaker 12: That's really up to the Iranian people that the current
Speaker 12: government and the current policy of killing Americans has to end.
Speaker 1: So a last question, mister ambassador, do you have a
Speaker 1: time frame for this? Because the George H. W. Bush
Speaker 1: carrier group just was announced to be heading in the
Speaker 1: Middle East, that's at least a week's transit time. Do
Speaker 1: you expect any showdown that is kinetic, to use the
Speaker 1: term of art of the day, is going to wait
Speaker 1: until the Bush is on station.
Speaker 3: Well, we don't need to.
Speaker 12: I mean we showed without operation midnight in Hammra that
Speaker 12: we can use the aircraft launch from America for Missouri
Speaker 12: to do with significant damage to Iran. We have the
Speaker 12: averring Lincoln, which has ninety aircraft on it embarked on
Speaker 12: it right now. The Bush certainly gives them the sentcom
Speaker 12: Combatant commander and the admirals more firepower, no doubt. But
Speaker 12: we could start tomorrow, we could start a week from now.
Speaker 12: And the beauty of it is President Trouble will be
Speaker 12: the person who dies to the time and manner in
Speaker 12: the place of the attack, and then that will be
Speaker 12: a surprise. What won't be a surprise if the Iranians
Speaker 12: turned down the negotiations, turned down the deal he's offered him,
Speaker 12: which is a very fair deal, just like you offered
Speaker 12: madord of the chance to leave, and Madud did Layton.
Speaker 12: He's in Brooklyn, I told it's been given a chance
Speaker 12: to leave, to go to Moscow or bit Chang and
Speaker 12: take the billions of dogs and they stole from the
Speaker 12: Iranian people with him, and he can.
Speaker 3: Get out of there, or you can choose to stay
Speaker 3: and face.
Speaker 12: The wrath of America if you don't take the deal,
Speaker 12: and if the President see him a very fair deal.
Speaker 1: Do you think they're from from here? I know you
Speaker 1: wouldn't have the classification anymore, although you're on the Presidential
Speaker 1: Point Intelligence Advisory Board or whatever Pithyap's called. Now, is
Speaker 1: there any indication that someone might just shoot the Iatola
Speaker 1: in the back of his head because they're afraid they're
Speaker 1: going to get blown up?
Speaker 3: That's something a dictator always has to worry about.
Speaker 12: You is an assassination if the king, but the ipol
Speaker 12: is surrounded by an attics, religious fanatics who believe he's
Speaker 12: the voice of God on the earth.
Speaker 3: He's in a bunker, so he is probably unlickily that.
Speaker 12: Someone from the regime takes him out, and the penalty
Speaker 12: is so high if you if you don't kill the king,
Speaker 12: or even if you do, in that circumstance, he'll kill
Speaker 12: your family.
Speaker 3: He'll kill your extended family.
Speaker 12: He'll kill your uncle's aunts, you know, anyone related to you.
Speaker 12: So it's not likely that he'll he'll be assassinated or
Speaker 12: they'll be a cut regime.
Speaker 13: What's more likely is that he'll he'll run for the
Speaker 13: hills with all his money. You know, he's the man
Speaker 13: of God who has sold billions of dollars and put
Speaker 13: it overseas to feather his nest. I assimilar go to
Speaker 13: the cash to them and faced American military power, he
Speaker 13: would he can.
Speaker 1: Have a villain next to Asad and the Assad family
Speaker 1: because they're all in Russia. Now, Ambassador Robert Seale Brian,
Speaker 1: good to talk to you. Thank you for joining me.
Speaker 1: Always a pleasure. American Global Securities Chairman of the Board.
Speaker 1: I want to get that right, ags, chairman of the board.
Speaker 1: Now former National Security Advisor Robert Selbrien. Hi, it's you, Hewitt.
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Speaker 1: forget my code is Hugh. Welcome back to America, you, Hewett.
Speaker 1: I am so pleased to welcome I think for the
Speaker 1: first time Brit Hume to the Uuit Show. Long time
Speaker 1: member of ABC News than he was the anchor of
Speaker 1: Special Report. He is now, of course, chief political analyst
Speaker 1: for Fox News. You see him most Sundays on Fox
Speaker 1: Sunday Show and then often on Special Report. Whenever I'm
Speaker 1: on the panel with Bread, just try not to say
Speaker 1: anything stupid sitting next to him. How are you, mister Hume.
Speaker 1: Where do we find you today?
Speaker 14: Well, I'm in southwest Florida, which is now my home.
Speaker 1: Well, I'm glad that you and I are both in
Speaker 1: a warm place, poor old DC. When I set this
Speaker 1: up weeks ago, I was going to talk to you
Speaker 1: about every president and covering them. I still will in
Speaker 1: a kind of way. But two things happened today. The
Speaker 1: Post Washington Post kind of exploded, and Iran may be
Speaker 1: exploding by the end of the show. I don't know,
Speaker 1: but I would like to talk to you about both
Speaker 1: of them. But first I got to recall you worked
Speaker 1: for Jack Anderson a long time ago, didn't you.
Speaker 14: I did. For several years.
Speaker 1: Was he published in the Post?
Speaker 14: He was? He was published in the Post? It was
Speaker 14: It had been Drew Pearson, the famous Drew Pearson's column
Speaker 14: for many, many years. It ran on the comics page
Speaker 14: because the Post had even though Pearson was wildly popular
Speaker 14: and so was Anderson after him. It was wildly popular
Speaker 14: with readers, but the Post didn't approve of it being
Speaker 14: stuffy in the way they could be at times back
Speaker 14: in those days, and so they ran on the comics page.
Speaker 14: And at some point somebody proposed moving it off the
Speaker 14: comics page on the editorial page. And Jack Anderson, for
Speaker 14: whom I was then working, he didn't want that because
Speaker 14: he said he'd rather be next to Peanuts and next
Speaker 14: to Joe Kraft, was the prominent Washington columnist in those days,
Speaker 14: and so he organed. He got all the churches and
Speaker 14: institutions to whom he'd given speeches and who he could
Speaker 14: call it call favors from to write to the Post.
Speaker 14: And the idea was killed, and the column stayed on
Speaker 14: the editorial page until they ended some years later.
Speaker 1: I know that former President on the comics page. Yeah,
Speaker 1: former President Dixon had it in for Anderson, and I know,
Speaker 1: I don't know if you got caught up in that,
Speaker 1: but it goes back to Drew Pearson days. I used
Speaker 1: to I worked for Nixon out of college in his
Speaker 1: exile at the Elbow of America out in San Clementy,
Speaker 1: and he told me once that he broke up a
Speaker 1: fist fight between kil Gunner, Joe McCarthy, and Drew Pearson
Speaker 1: at some you know, could have been any of the
Speaker 1: many Washington dinners that are held. Did you ever do
Speaker 1: that for JACKI Anderson?
Speaker 14: Yeah, another story it happened. The fight that was broken
Speaker 14: up was at the Celgrave Club, which is a very
Speaker 14: elite club right near DuPont Circle in Washington, where my
Speaker 14: only reason I went there is I got on the
Speaker 14: list for debut parties and used to go. And they
Speaker 14: were apparently they were tussling on a stairwell and then
Speaker 14: in the lobby and and Nixon broke it up.
Speaker 1: Well, you're the only guy, I though, who can go
Speaker 1: back and talk about Nixon first person the way I can.
Speaker 1: But I really want to talk about Carter and Harmoni
Speaker 1: because you're probably one of the few people that remembers
Speaker 1: the Revolution of seventy eight seventy nine. I watched it
Speaker 1: with Nixon and San Clementy and Great Price on the
Speaker 1: couch in the West Wing the Western White House Oval
Speaker 1: Office replica, and we couldn't believe every day what we
Speaker 1: were seeing as the Shaw flat after a year of marches.
Speaker 1: Do you remember that as vividly as I do?
Speaker 14: I do remember it very well. I guess I was
Speaker 14: covering Capitol Hill at the time, and of course it
Speaker 14: was widely watched there as well. It was a very
Speaker 14: big story, and of course, you know, it was succeeded
Speaker 14: by the famous hostage taking and hostage crisis that really
Speaker 14: was terribly damaging to the then President Carter's political standing.
Speaker 14: And you know, I think, well, you could make a
Speaker 14: pretty good case, Hugh, that it was that as much
Speaker 14: as anything else that did him in as the presidential candidate.
Speaker 14: Carter as presidential candidate in nineteen eighty.
Speaker 1: I think it was. And then the big question to
Speaker 1: ask you, has any president until Trump ever tried to
Speaker 1: deal with the Iran regime and the crazy Toya tolds
Speaker 1: Homini and Imani from a position of strength the way
Speaker 1: Trump is doing after Midnight Hammer because Reagan got ballocks
Speaker 1: by them. I don't remember much on HW's watch, but
Speaker 1: Clinton couldn't figure him out. W never struck back when
Speaker 1: they began blowing up American soldiers in Iraq, and of
Speaker 1: course Obama did the JCPOA. Have they ever been understood
Speaker 1: by the White House.
Speaker 14: My view is that we've never seen a military build
Speaker 14: up on the scale that we're seeing now. This is striking.
Speaker 14: I mean, this is really a massive allocation of military
Speaker 14: force in that region. And my guess, true Hugh, is
Speaker 14: that the president is in a position where, you know,
Speaker 14: failing some extraordinary and utterly unexpected a areement on nuclear
Speaker 14: weapons and other things from Iran, he's in a position
Speaker 14: where he's going to have to use that for us.
Speaker 1: I think I agree with that. And when the Iranians
Speaker 1: canceled the meeting today, that's why I said Iran might
Speaker 1: be blowing up as we speak. We wouldn't know about it.
Speaker 1: The Iranians seem to recognize that they are at wits end.
Speaker 1: They're not going to give up what Trump wants, and
Speaker 1: they also don't seem to realize they have no leverage.
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't think they can actually threaten America
Speaker 1: at all, do you I don't.
Speaker 14: I think they can threaten, potentially at least threaten the
Speaker 14: US bases in the region, and I think they can
Speaker 14: threaten some of our allies in the region, which I
Speaker 14: presume is the reason why we're said to be moving
Speaker 14: anti missile systems into the region to whatever extent we can.
Speaker 1: Well, I think that's correct too. I think they they
Speaker 1: have been publishing pictures of the bases in Jordan and
Speaker 1: the UAE and cut her A on the far As
Speaker 1: News agency, which is the unofficial arm of the of
Speaker 1: the government, and that's a veiled threat. Do you think
Speaker 1: threats work with Donald Trump very well?
Speaker 14: Well, I think they can. They sometimes do, perhaps, but
Speaker 14: he's in these in these matters, he's about as bold
Speaker 14: a president as we've had in some time. And you know,
Speaker 14: he's willing to take risks and and and order daring missions,
Speaker 14: the mission in Venezuela being the most conspicuous recent example.
Speaker 14: But he's willing to do this stuff. And of course
Speaker 14: he with considerable health from Israel, was able to successfully
Speaker 14: take out huge pieces of Iran's nuclear program. So I mean,
Speaker 14: I think he's I think he's prepared to do it again,
Speaker 14: or to try again with an even larger force.
Speaker 1: So I want to try an argument out on you.
Speaker 1: I heard Lindsey Graham in the Oval yesterday say to
Speaker 1: the President that the President Trump was Reagan. Plus I
Speaker 1: actually thought it's more like hw Bush because HW Bush
Speaker 1: went to Panama, and I think you were at the
Speaker 1: White House at this point, covering the White House. Hw
Speaker 1: Bush Panama. Okay, he did Panama, and he did Iraq
Speaker 1: in and out massive use of force, then cut it
Speaker 1: off after one hundred hours in Iraq, after a month
Speaker 1: and a half in Panama and got out. Is Trump
Speaker 1: more like hw or is he more like Reagan?
Speaker 14: Well, in terms of the length of the missions, he's
Speaker 14: more like hw as you suggest, Hugh, and I think
Speaker 14: you know this is a somewhat different matter, because he
Speaker 14: had a very discreet mission did hw in Iraq, which
Speaker 14: was to evict Saddam Hussein's army. He had a grant
Speaker 14: from the UN, a grant of authority from the UN
Speaker 14: UN resolution supporting that mission, which was very important politically
Speaker 14: around the world, and it was very important in the
Speaker 14: United States. In fact, he had the UN authorization before
Speaker 14: he was able to get a similar authorization through the
Speaker 14: US Senate, which is a surprising thing, you might think
Speaker 14: in this day and age. But that's and so he
Speaker 14: went and did what he thought he had to do.
Speaker 14: He evicted Saddam Hussin's army from a rocket and from
Speaker 14: a Kuwait excuse me. And that was it. He let
Speaker 14: it go and after that, and of course people were
Speaker 14: critical of that. I think I think mister Trump, given
Speaker 14: his recent record, would be inclined to do what he
Speaker 14: needed to do and get out. The question is what
Speaker 14: will the mission be if he decides to go into
Speaker 14: Iran militarily. Will it simply be to add further damage
Speaker 14: to the nuclear program? Would he be trying to hit
Speaker 14: the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps and do as much damas
Speaker 14: to them? Responsible?
Speaker 6: Is he?
Speaker 14: Is it regime change? Is it toppling the Saddam? I
Speaker 14: mean tumpling the current Irunian regime? And I don't think
Speaker 14: we know the answer to those questions at this stage.
Speaker 1: I don't, But I've just finished reading a book by
Speaker 1: a fellow named Siliski about the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps.
Speaker 1: And there is no killing every part, root and branch
Speaker 1: of that. It's too big, it's too vast. It's the besiege,
Speaker 1: which is a million volunteers that run over demonstrators and
Speaker 1: kill people at close range. It's a quarter million IRGC
Speaker 1: hardcore professional. It's not the Iranian army. I mean, they
Speaker 1: can blow up the missile depots, they can try and
Speaker 1: kill Hamini. I think they can block out Tehran, but
Speaker 1: I don't know that they can do more than that.
Speaker 1: Although getting rid of the missile launchers would be a
Speaker 1: big win and would validate the promises the president made
Speaker 1: to the demonstrators at least I think it would. Would
Speaker 1: you would you agree with that assessment? It would? It
Speaker 1: would validate Yeah.
Speaker 14: And I think and I think that the question you
Speaker 14: have to ask is would any short regime change end
Speaker 14: up making the difference in being worth the risk? And
Speaker 14: of course if you do, should see eat in toppling regime.
Speaker 14: Then you have the question of what next, which is
Speaker 14: a question that has been devilist in other places, principally
Speaker 14: in Iraq. So, I you know, I think this is
Speaker 14: this is a very big and risky situation we're in.
Speaker 14: But I think the President is kind of out on
Speaker 14: a limb here, and he's going to have to act
Speaker 14: because he's it's unimaginable to me that he can get
Speaker 14: a satisfactory response from Iran without doing something.
Speaker 1: I think that is exactly the calculation Howmonia has made,
Speaker 1: that it's unimaginable that he can not do something. And
Speaker 1: when he does something, ha MANI is going to try
Speaker 1: and inflict massive damage on the American basis. He's sent
Speaker 1: up a drone at the Lincoln yesterday, which is not
Speaker 1: a very good idea. I've got a son in a
Speaker 1: law of no aircraft carriers and they're pretty well defended.
Speaker 1: But I do remember the Sheffield. I was reminded of
Speaker 1: it this week that an exost missile was filed fired
Speaker 1: by Argentina back in the Falklands. And I don't know
Speaker 1: where you were at that time, if you're gone to
Speaker 1: ABC by that point, Oh yeah, you were at ABC
Speaker 1: by that point. The Falklands is h late Reagan.
Speaker 14: Uh, I think that's right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's Thatcher and it's Reagan, and HW is
Speaker 1: a rock and Thatcher. So I get to confuse. But
Speaker 1: Argentina took out the Sheffield. I'm not being casual about
Speaker 1: the danger to our troops or to our ships, but
Speaker 1: I don't think he cannot The President Trump can do nothing.
Speaker 1: I think he actually asked to now go and punish them,
Speaker 1: and punish can be very very big. As you point out,
Speaker 1: have we ever done a mission before?
Speaker 14: And I think hughes that. One of the things that
Speaker 14: the President can feel that he may have accomplished by
Speaker 14: virtue of the actions he's taken in Iran and then
Speaker 14: later of course in Venezuela, is some restoration of the
Speaker 14: kind of deterrent that our foreign policy has been built
Speaker 14: on for so long. Is not that we want to
Speaker 14: go to wars, that we want to have a big
Speaker 14: military establishment everywhere, but we want people to feel that
Speaker 14: we have enough power to strike them in a powerful
Speaker 14: and damaging way if they mess around with us. And
Speaker 14: of course, when you pull out of Afghanistan in a
Speaker 14: way that we did, and when you know Barack Obama's
Speaker 14: famous red line went completely unenforced in Syria, that damage
Speaker 14: is that image. I think mister Trump is trying to
Speaker 14: rebuild that, which is I think appropriate. And if he
Speaker 14: were to back away here and not really do anything meaningful,
Speaker 14: I think that would whatever program he's made on restoring
Speaker 14: American deterrence would be would be undermined.
Speaker 1: I agree with that. I also think politically and I
Speaker 1: don't think that ought to be the primary consideration, but
Speaker 1: it's never not a consideration. If he backs away, he's
Speaker 1: basically becoming Barack Obama two point zero. And he spent
Speaker 1: the last ten years announcing the JCPOA, and the JCPOA
Speaker 1: deserve to be denounced. But I don't know that he
Speaker 1: doesn't end up in the pile with Obama and Biden
Speaker 1: if he backs away. Now, break Hume.
Speaker 14: I think that's exactly right. I think that's what he
Speaker 14: has to worry about. That they did some real damage
Speaker 14: to our deterrent posture and he's maybe rebuilding it. But
Speaker 14: you can't start backing away from things and expect that's going.
Speaker 5: To do that.
Speaker 1: I hope he hears that. Second thing I want to
Speaker 1: talk to you have, Ben, now is the big news today.
Speaker 1: The Washington Post is down. They're down another three hundred
Speaker 1: to four hundred people. It is my policy I don't
Speaker 1: talk about people that I worked for before, and I
Speaker 1: worked for the Post for a good decade. It was
Speaker 1: a fun time. So I don't have anything but nice
Speaker 1: things to say about Fred Hyatt and Ruth Marcus and
Speaker 1: fred Ryan. But what do you think that tells us
Speaker 1: about the news business now, Brett.
Speaker 14: Well, I think he's suffering the fate of a great
Speaker 14: many newspapers. It's a tough business to be in now.
Speaker 14: People have a multitude of sources from which to get news.
Speaker 14: They're a customed now to read online. You can subscribe
Speaker 14: to newspapers for any publication you want to. There's a
Speaker 14: multitude of other sources of news, from podcasts and newsletters
Speaker 14: to individuals who have sort of hung out their shingle
Speaker 14: on the internet. So it's a tough, tough environment. The
Speaker 14: classified ad business, which was so sustaining to newspapers for
Speaker 14: so long, has petered out to a great extent because
Speaker 14: in large part because of the Internet. So it's a
Speaker 14: very hard business. I would add to that that in
Speaker 14: its heyday, over the last thirty or forty years of
Speaker 14: Washington longer, I guess the Washington Post was an extraordinarily readable,
Speaker 14: lively newspaper. I mean, I had a lot of disagreements
Speaker 14: with there, with the viewpoints that they took as a newspaper,
Speaker 14: but it was fun to read. It had a great
Speaker 14: sports section that's largely deteriorated away now. It's covering a
Speaker 14: lot of things that used to cover with their own
Speaker 14: reporters used to now covering with wire copy. So it's
Speaker 14: a and I think it's just an economically difficult called
Speaker 14: environment to operate a newspaper. And the New York Times
Speaker 14: and the Wall Street Journal have succeeded in this environment
Speaker 14: at times. Is a particularly good example because it's done
Speaker 14: it with a lot of lot of gimmicky things. You know,
Speaker 14: it's got wordle it's got various columns and recipes and
Speaker 14: things that people are paying up for. I have a
Speaker 14: subscription to The New York Times cause I feel the
Speaker 14: need to read it every day, but I can't get
Speaker 14: the crossword puzzle without paying extra. Sometimes it's developed sources
Speaker 14: of revenue that have sustained it, and people all over
Speaker 14: the country subscribe to it. It isn't easy to be
Speaker 14: a national newspaper these days. You know, you need a
Speaker 14: big reputation for that, and the Post I think aspired
Speaker 14: to do that, but I think in this particular environment
Speaker 14: it's not doing it very well.
Speaker 1: You know, when Mike and Jim Vanda Hay left the
Speaker 1: Post and started Politico, that was sort of the moment.
Speaker 1: I think that the Post missed. I wasn't working for
Speaker 1: them at that moment, but Mike Allen and Jim Van
Speaker 1: Day went over and started no overhead Washington Post, you know,
Speaker 1: a mini post, and they covered politics exclusively, and they
Speaker 1: did it well and they did it deep. Now Politico
Speaker 1: has gone off a left cliff, but in its place,
Speaker 1: there's now Axios, and there's punch Bowl, and there's Semaphore
Speaker 1: and there are a dozen different things. I don't know.
Speaker 1: What you used to do with Jack Anderson was unique,
Speaker 1: just like Drew Pearson was unique. People wanted to know
Speaker 1: what was going on inside of the Beltway, and you
Speaker 1: grew up there, so you knew. And Jack Anderson lived
Speaker 1: there his whole life, so he knew, but no one
Speaker 1: out in the country knew. Now you can find out
Speaker 1: about what's going on in Washington, DC, as you said,
Speaker 1: one hundred different places. Do you happen to listen to
Speaker 1: the Ruthless podcast, Britt.
Speaker 14: I do, and I enjoy it very much. And it's
Speaker 14: kind of a It's a rollicking podcast, to be sure,
Speaker 14: and it's fun to listen to. It's not serious deep reporting,
Speaker 14: but it's a bunch of smart guys, and you know,
Speaker 14: with a sense of humor, giving you a little insight
Speaker 14: into how they see things in Washington on the Post.
Speaker 14: You know, Hugh, the Post used to be fun, you know.
Speaker 14: The style section was kind of a trendsetter at the time,
Speaker 14: uh and used to be full of lively, sometimes gossipy, stuffed.
Speaker 14: It was fun to read. In recent years, it's been
Speaker 14: kind of a dreary never Trump, a drum beat of
Speaker 14: a newspaper, not very fun to read. And a lot
Speaker 14: of the reporting they did, I think, you know, particularly
Speaker 14: on Trump, didn't turn out very well. You know, they've
Speaker 14: chased the Russia collusion fiasco right down the rabbit hole,
Speaker 14: ended up with nothing, so that, you know, those things
Speaker 14: I think all contributed.
Speaker 1: So now Fox News has got Foxnews dot Com. I
Speaker 1: reade a column for it a couple of times a week,
Speaker 1: and its reach is massive. It's it's it's up there
Speaker 1: with any other like the New York Times website or
Speaker 1: the Wall Street Journal website at which is part, of course,
Speaker 1: the Fox Court. I don't know that any I don't
Speaker 1: know that anyone will take over the Post and try
Speaker 1: and revive it. I just can't imagine that happening, can you.
Speaker 14: It looks this looks like the death rattle to me, Hugh,
Speaker 14: it really does. It makes me sad. I mean, I
Speaker 14: you know, I subscribe to the Post as a Washington
Speaker 14: you and I grew up there. I don't live there anymore,
Speaker 14: but I grew up there. Uh you know. I root
Speaker 14: for the Washington teams and so on. And one of
Speaker 14: the reasons why I got the paper was, you know,
Speaker 14: I'm at the age where my friends and contemporaries are dying,
Speaker 14: and I'd like to be able to know about that,
Speaker 14: because you don't always hear about it when you're a
Speaker 14: thousand miles away, as I am. And I got the
Speaker 14: Post in part to read the obit page. The obit
Speaker 14: page is ridiculous, uh it. It'll give you a musician
Speaker 14: from Zambia, long obit, somebody who never heard of and
Speaker 14: never intend to and whose music will never hear. But
Speaker 14: local people die, people you might know. They got to
Speaker 14: have a paid notice or nothing. That's just.
Speaker 1: People who spent decades on the hill don't get an
Speaker 1: obit anymore. In The Washington Post, I noted that it's
Speaker 1: the only critique I'm going to give. I will know
Speaker 1: the comics section. I have no idea if it exists,
Speaker 1: because I only took it digitally for years, I doubt
Speaker 1: it very much whether Jack Anderson could even ask to
Speaker 1: be on the comics page. But I do regret losing
Speaker 1: the likes whoever is the modern Thomas Boswell, because they're
Speaker 1: they were a great sports call and I didn't live
Speaker 1: there anywhere near as long as you have lived there,
Speaker 1: and I didn't like their teams. I'm a Cleveland guy,
Speaker 1: but they had great sports coverage and that was that
Speaker 1: was shuttered. Today they're out of the sports business. It's
Speaker 1: almost unthinkable.
Speaker 14: I don't and I think if you're if you're if
Speaker 14: you're trying to revive that newspaper and you're not going
Speaker 14: to cover the local sports teams, I don't. I mean,
Speaker 14: that's one of the things i'd go there for. I'm
Speaker 14: a I'm an ardent fan of the Washington Redskins now
Speaker 14: Commanders and have been somemselves a little boy, and one
Speaker 14: of the reasons I still keep my subscription to the
Speaker 14: Post is to catch up on the team. And if
Speaker 14: they've killed that, then I you know, I'll probably just
Speaker 14: cancel my subscription because.
Speaker 1: That's a uh, that's a restaurant Redskins commander's fan, Brett,
Speaker 1: I'm a Browns fan. I know what that's like. But
Speaker 1: that's a that's a rough way to go. And are
Speaker 1: you hopeful?
Speaker 14: Yeah, I've always had a lot of sympathy for Browns
Speaker 14: fans because that's one of those you know. It was
Speaker 14: one of the original teams of the NFL, and a
Speaker 14: great team for many years and had Jim Brown and
Speaker 14: Paul Brown and great stars through the years, and and uh,
Speaker 14: and to see them struggling in a way they have
Speaker 14: in recent years has been painful for me, just as
Speaker 14: a simple just as one sympathetic to its fans.
Speaker 1: Did you turn the corner? Did you become a Nationals
Speaker 1: fan after the Senators folded up in there and bad
Speaker 1: the O's for a long time? They covered the o's greatly,
Speaker 1: But did you become a Nationals guy.
Speaker 14: When the Senator? I was a Senators fan and where
Speaker 14: I lived in Washington, Uh, you could walk. It was
Speaker 14: a long walk, but you could walk to the old
Speaker 14: Griffith Stadium and get in for a very little month
Speaker 14: and sit in the bleachers and watch them. When I
Speaker 14: was an ardent fan of the way, they were always
Speaker 14: a weak team. I mean they was saying, you know,
Speaker 14: Washington first, and war first and peace and last in
Speaker 14: the American League was start true, but I was so.
Speaker 14: But it was an American League franchise. So when they
Speaker 14: pulled out, they then they had the expansion nets, and
Speaker 14: they were an American League franchise. And when they went away,
Speaker 14: and we didn't have a team for years, and I
Speaker 14: was able to some extent to transform my allegiance to
Speaker 14: the Baltimore Oyols. Used to go up there and go
Speaker 14: to games and enjoyed going to the games in that
Speaker 14: beautiful new ballpark that I say, knew it's been there
Speaker 14: for years, but it seems new to me. And and
Speaker 14: when the Nationals came that that was a net, that
Speaker 14: was a net that was a National League team, and
Speaker 14: I was a customer to seeing teams playing my team
Speaker 14: playing against American League opponents, so the draw wasn't as great.
Speaker 14: But then they won the World Series. I was rooting
Speaker 14: for them then. But they're not in my heart the
Speaker 14: way the old Senators were, and even the way that
Speaker 14: some extends the Oils were.
Speaker 1: That is not exactly but very similar. I don't care
Speaker 1: about the Nationals a lick because I grew up watching
Speaker 1: the American League. I'm an Indians fan, now Guardians fan,
Speaker 1: like the Redskins. They've changed their name to the Commanders
Speaker 1: into the Guardians. But I'm still an American League guy.
Speaker 1: And it doesn't matter as much to the youngs because
Speaker 1: of interleague play. But to you and to me, there's
Speaker 1: only one interleague play a year until we were fifty
Speaker 1: or so, and then they started the It never caught on.
Speaker 1: I've never become a national fan unless they come to
Speaker 1: the American League. I don't know anything about them. So
Speaker 1: let me close up this way. Byelines. I have long
Speaker 1: been of the opinion that the byeline is now the
Speaker 1: product that not the platform, but the byeline that George
Speaker 1: will and Charles Crodhammer and Jack Anderson when he was working,
Speaker 1: people wanted to read particular individuals because they were great
Speaker 1: at what they did. Sally Quinn, you mentioned the style section.
Speaker 1: Is that any way back for American media to go
Speaker 1: with the byeland being the brand again?
Speaker 14: Well, I think you can. If you're good, you can
Speaker 14: still develop a following. In fact, what you're seeing is journalists,
Speaker 14: you heard me say earlier, hanging out a shingle and
Speaker 14: trying on the strength of their own byline if you
Speaker 14: will to attract an audience and make a living, and
Speaker 14: of course, in a country as large as America is now,
Speaker 14: if you can get yourself out there, as any number
Speaker 14: of people are now doing, you become the product and
Speaker 14: your byline is the thing. So I do think as possible.
Speaker 14: I'm not sure you can sustain newspapers with it, but
Speaker 14: I think individuals are proven that you can, and a
Speaker 14: lot of them are trying. I mean, look at Substack.
Speaker 14: It's an absolute warn of all these individuals who think
Speaker 14: they've got something to say and they're trying to make
Speaker 14: a living doing it.
Speaker 1: Almost every day I listen to commentary podcast which has
Speaker 1: four or five very smart people on it. Ruthless is
Speaker 1: a rollicking I love that way. I'm going to use that.
Speaker 1: They are a rollicking good time three times a week
Speaker 1: and they know they hell, they actually know of which
Speaker 1: they speak. You covered the OLL for a long time.
Speaker 1: A lot of the people that I hear reporting from
Speaker 1: the are shouting questions at legislators like Marjorie Taylor Green
Speaker 1: or AOC who are marginal to the actual discussion of
Speaker 1: what's getting done and therefore not very illuminating. They're looking
Speaker 1: for viral, not for the information. I don't know that
Speaker 1: anyone really covers the Hill well other than our friends
Speaker 1: at punch Bowl. They do a pretty good job of it.
Speaker 1: Do you have anyone else that covers it besides Ruthless
Speaker 1: and punch Bowl?
Speaker 14: No, I don't really, and I don't know. I like, Actually,
Speaker 14: I think our corresponds a Fox do a pretty good
Speaker 14: job of covering the Hill. But it's not like it
Speaker 14: used to be. I can remember we used to cover
Speaker 14: when I was at ABC News and I covered the
Speaker 14: Hill for eleven years. We used to cover budget hearings
Speaker 14: and we didn't cover them live, but I would be
Speaker 14: doing you know, tape packages on the evening news about
Speaker 14: budget hearings and budget markups and they're, you know, they're
Speaker 14: pretty tedious. But we really did cover the Hill, and
Speaker 14: we had a correspondent in the House and a carspond
Speaker 14: in the Senate. Now we have you know, corresponds come
Speaker 14: and go up there, and we have people who are
Speaker 14: off air who work it. But it's not like it
Speaker 14: used to be, even within an hour newscast at.
Speaker 1: Night, even with all day newscasts. See Span has not
Speaker 1: replaced Fox because Fox has a point of view that
Speaker 1: comes into the play at various times on the panel
Speaker 1: and things like that, but for deep dives into For example,
Speaker 1: I open with Senator Thun today the program and we
Speaker 1: talked about the Department of Homeland Security funding bill, and
Speaker 1: that's a very interesting thing to me. But only radio
Speaker 1: has enough time and cable has enough time to actually
Speaker 1: dive in to an immigration comprehensive immigration reform bill. Other people,
Speaker 1: I mean, you couldn't do it when you're anchoring special report,
Speaker 1: Brett can't do it. It takes forever to do even
Speaker 1: a introduction to it.
Speaker 14: That's true. And I think it's one of the things
Speaker 14: that's challenging about this environment is and we worry people
Speaker 14: are not going to be very well informed if we
Speaker 14: can't find a medium in which to convey this stuff.
Speaker 14: And when you see these newspapers dying out, it's concerning
Speaker 14: in that way. In particular.
Speaker 1: Well, let me let me conclude by asking you about
Speaker 1: Donald Trump.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 1: I thought I had seen everything, having worked for Nixon
Speaker 1: in exile and then Reagan in the in the Reagan years,
Speaker 1: and then going back and forth between DC. But of
Speaker 1: course he's a very different, uh, sort of almost otherworldly figure.
Speaker 1: In politics. He's not of anything from which I'm used to.
Speaker 1: Is there any recreating him or is he a genuine
Speaker 1: sort of one off.
Speaker 14: He's a one off in my opinion. There's never been
Speaker 14: a politician, a successful politician I know of like him,
Speaker 14: And I think one of the great failures of journalism
Speaker 14: in this age has been a failure to get it
Speaker 14: about what he is and it, you know, people have
Speaker 14: been so mesmerized by his personality, viewed by so many
Speaker 14: is obnoxious and abrasive, and viewed by many, nearly a
Speaker 14: huge majority of journalists as an absolute rascal who should
Speaker 14: not be treated as anything other than that at all times.
Speaker 14: There has been a great failure there. I think he's
Speaker 14: a very hard man to understand, fully because he's so
Speaker 14: different from every other politician. And I think he's a
Speaker 14: man who has been a bold and in many respects
Speaker 14: an exceptionally effective leader. But his accomplishments are less visible
Speaker 14: to people because of his personality and because of his style.
Speaker 14: You know, you look at him, and people look at
Speaker 14: the things he's doing at the White House, and even
Speaker 14: indeed the way he decorated his apartment in New York,
Speaker 14: and they think the man's life is an absolute festival
Speaker 14: of bad taste and braggadocia and exaggeration and all the
Speaker 14: rest of it. And there's a case to be made
Speaker 14: for all that. The problem is, however, that if you
Speaker 14: do if you look at that stuff, they're mesmerized by it.
Speaker 14: You fail to get what's really going on with.
Speaker 1: Him, and that when history gets around to writing the books,
Speaker 1: the books go on read and it becomes a paragraph
Speaker 1: in Wikipedia. He's going to be the guy who took
Speaker 1: out the Iranian nuclear program and maybe more maybe the regime.
Speaker 1: And I don't know if he's going to reach some
Speaker 1: sort of understanding Reji that leaves Taiwan free. I hope so.
Speaker 1: But he's a very significant national security president along the
Speaker 1: lines of hw as we were talking about. And when
Speaker 1: you compare him to, for example, President Obama, there's nothing
Speaker 1: there on the Obama side of the ledger. I'm not
Speaker 1: being critical of him, I'm being objective. He didn't get
Speaker 1: anything done that has lasted other than Obamacare, and that's
Speaker 1: a mess. Correct me if I'm wrong for you.
Speaker 14: Oh, I think he's the most overrated recent president of
Speaker 14: our time. An enormously talented politician, tremendously likable. I think,
Speaker 14: even though I disagree with a lot of his policies,
Speaker 14: I can see the man's strengths. This is the thing
Speaker 14: with Trump. Too many people look at the man and
Speaker 14: they're mesmerized by the outward appearances. They're mesmerized by the
Speaker 14: excesses and the braggadocia and all the exaggerations, and they
Speaker 14: failed to see the achievements.
Speaker 1: Okay, bonus question, going way back to Nixon? What was
Speaker 1: your take? What is Anderson and your take on Nixon
Speaker 1: at the end there? Because the press dras Trump like
Speaker 1: it treated Nixon, and I think they missed a lot
Speaker 1: of Nixon as a result.
Speaker 14: I think that may be true. I tell you, we
Speaker 14: were all a little bit afraid of him. We remember
Speaker 14: the stuff that came out when the so called White
Speaker 14: House horrors were revealed in the course of Watergate. I
Speaker 14: did a story for Jack Anderson that broke before Watergate.
Speaker 14: It was a much lesser deal about the effort to
Speaker 14: fix the IT T any trust cases, and it wreaked
Speaker 14: of corruption, and indeed it was corrupt. The White House
Speaker 14: had bullied the Justice Department into going easy on in
Speaker 14: IT and T, which was a big conglomerate very successful
Speaker 14: at the time, and they were trying to any trust.
Speaker 14: Division of the Justice Department been trying to break it up,
Speaker 14: and the Knixon administration was trying to put the fix in.
Speaker 14: It was not this was not a good thing.
Speaker 1: And we did took down Henry Peterson, didn't it, did
Speaker 1: your story taking out.
Speaker 14: Henry Peterson took down Richard Kleindeast that's ad East. Yeah, Well,
Speaker 14: Tiny's pleaded something else, but he was guilty in that,
Speaker 14: and he'd been involved in that, and he'd been pressured
Speaker 14: by John Elickman in the White House and so on. So,
Speaker 14: you know, we thought Nixon was a dark force. I
Speaker 14: always did, and only you know, and I certainly appreciated
Speaker 14: and came to understand his foreign policy skills, which were manifold,
Speaker 14: but at the time he seemed he was kind of
Speaker 14: an investigative reporter's dream at the time, That's what I
Speaker 14: was doing.
Speaker 1: Yeah. The friendship between Donald Trump and Richard Nixon, which
Speaker 1: developed after the former president moved back to New York
Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty has always fascinated me. I've talked to
Speaker 1: President Trump about it a couple of times. It just
Speaker 1: there could be more different dirt, poor your Belinda California
Speaker 1: Whittier College versus developer pen New York Glitz, Ritz Glamour.
Speaker 1: They could not be more different, but they operate I
Speaker 1: think in very similar ways when it comes to the
Speaker 1: national security of the United States. They both don't want
Speaker 1: to be predictable, and I think they've achieved that pretty
Speaker 1: last word to you.
Speaker 14: Yeah, I think Trump does it on instinct. Nixon probably
Speaker 14: did it on intellect.
Speaker 1: Oh that's well said, Uh, Brittany, great fun talking to you.
Speaker 1: Watch out for the iguanas falling from the sky down
Speaker 1: there in South Florida. I hope I see you in
Speaker 1: the Beltway against soon.
Speaker 14: Thank you, Hugh, It's always good to talk to you.
Speaker 1: Thank you.