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Speaker 1: Welcome to Timeless Wisdom with Dennis Prager. Here thousands of

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Speaker 1: hours of Dennis's lectures courses in classic radio programs. Had

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Speaker 1: to purchase Dennis Prager's Rational Bibles. Go to Dennisprager dot com.

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Speaker 2: Good evening, everyone, and welcome to Religion on the Line

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Speaker 2: twenty eleven with Dennis Prager and Hugh Hewitt. Religion on

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Speaker 2: the Line is an interfaith dialogue that is put on

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Speaker 2: by ninety nine point five FM KKLA and our sister

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Speaker 2: station eight seventy AM KRILA here in Los Angeles. I'm

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Speaker 2: Frank Passstory, and I'm hosted a Frank pass Story show

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Speaker 2: heard weekday afternoons here in Los Angeles on ninety nine

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Speaker 2: point five FM. It is the intersection of faith and reason,

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Speaker 2: and as a former atheist for twenty seven years, I

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Speaker 2: came to faith while pitching for the Cincinnati Reds way

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Speaker 2: back in nineteen eighty four. And today, after a journey

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Speaker 2: that has taken me through two master's degrees and a

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Speaker 2: long wandering course, I now find myself and God has

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Speaker 2: placed me to have the privilege of hosting the most

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Speaker 2: listened to Christian talk show in America again here in

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Speaker 2: Los Angeles. Weekday afternoons. I hope you'll give a listen.

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Speaker 2: I wish I could be there tonight. I remember doing

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Speaker 2: the Dennis Prager event. He and I did the Religion

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Speaker 2: on the Line last year, and it was a sellout crowd,

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Speaker 2: and I'm sure it's a sellout crowd there this evening,

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Speaker 2: and Dennis and I had a wonderful conversation about not

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Speaker 2: only the differences but also the similarities between Christianity and Judaism.

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Speaker 2: And I'm sure that Dennis and Hugh will do a

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Speaker 2: marvelous job there this evening.

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Speaker 3: Now. I wish that I could be there, but I can't.

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Speaker 2: I'm actually in Nashville receiving the prestigious twenty eleven National

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Speaker 2: Religious Broadcasters Talk Show of the Year award again and

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Speaker 2: this is for our second time. But of course Dennis

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Speaker 2: and Hugh are not winning such an award, and so

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Speaker 2: they can be there with you this evening. Now, before

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Speaker 2: I go to introduce my friend Hugh Hewitt, there are

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Speaker 2: some sponsors who want to thank who have made this

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Speaker 2: evening possible. Roger Stewart Close, the Master's College, phil Liberatory,

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Speaker 2: the IRS Problem Solver, Garbedian Wealth, YMT Vacations, and Robert

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Speaker 2: Macone and Bill O'Connor, the money guys from Applied Financial Planning,

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Speaker 2: and make sure to visit their table this evening and

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Speaker 2: register for a drawing for an autograph copy of one

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Speaker 2: of Hughes's Orginnis's books. Now for my friend Hugh Hewitt.

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Speaker 2: Hugh is a lawyer. He's a law professor. He's an

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Speaker 2: author with over a dozen books, including two New York

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Speaker 2: Times bestsellers. His columns appear not only the best newspapers

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Speaker 2: in America, but also on the very best websites. He

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Speaker 2: has been a law professor over at Chapman University School

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Speaker 2: of Law since its founding. And oh yeah, he has

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Speaker 2: this little nationally syndicated radio show called The Hugh Hewitt Program,

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Speaker 2: which has heard on over one hundred and twenty cities

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Speaker 2: in America. And it is an honor to have hosted

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Speaker 2: for both Hugh and Dennis Prager several times.

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Speaker 3: I consider them my friends.

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Speaker 2: Now, one thing you need to know about Hugh, other

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Speaker 2: than hthewood dot Com, his world famous blog, You need to.

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Speaker 3: Know about what his passions are.

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Speaker 2: Now, Hugh is very passionate about the Cleveland Browns, the

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Speaker 2: University of Michigan, Notre Dame and Ohio State and the

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Speaker 2: Cleveland Indians. Now here's the problem though, and those of

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Speaker 2: you that are regular listeners to the Hugh Hewitt Show

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Speaker 2: who have been listening to Generalissimo, encourage Hugh about this.

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Speaker 2: Hugh has just recently completed his therapy for jock aphobia.

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Speaker 2: He is now willing to face and confront his fears

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Speaker 2: of actually meeting major league baseball players in a major

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Speaker 2: league clubhouse.

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Speaker 3: And it's wonderful news to me because I tried to

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Speaker 3: take him into a clubhouse.

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Speaker 2: Several years ago, and of course that was the onset

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Speaker 2: of the dreaded jockophobia.

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Speaker 3: But Hugh canulations you are now past that. Ladies and gentlemen.

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Speaker 3: Won't you please join.

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Speaker 2: Me in welcoming morning, glory and evening grace America.

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Speaker 3: Hugh Hewett to you would take it away.

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Speaker 1: This episode of Timeless Wisdom. We'll continue right after this

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Speaker 1: now back to more of Dennis Prager's Timeless Wisdom.

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Speaker 4: Thank you, ladies and gentlemen for coming tonight. Thank you, Frank.

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Speaker 4: Past story for is always wonderful. Frank and I have

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Speaker 4: been working together for a number of years. It's always

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Speaker 4: great to have any association with him. Thanks for all

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Speaker 4: the carela listeners here. My partner in crime tonight needs

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Speaker 4: absolutely no introduction other than I count him among the

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Speaker 4: best men I know and one of my closest friends.

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Speaker 4: Please welcome Dennis Prager. Dennis, Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to

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Speaker 4: the first ever Ask a Jew. Now. When Dennis and

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Speaker 4: I conceived this program Ask a Jew over a year ago,

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Speaker 4: we did so because we spend a lot of time together.

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Speaker 4: That's actually been in. That's mine, I know, that's yours. No,

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Speaker 4: I just you see he broke in already. This is

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Speaker 4: but we have spent a lot of time together in

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Speaker 4: green rooms and green rooms, those conversations have turned almost

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Speaker 4: inevitably from whatever we were supposed to be talking about

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Speaker 4: matters of faith. Now, I believe before you are the

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Speaker 4: two people who have spent more time on broadcast air

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Speaker 4: talking seriously about matters of faith than any other two

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Speaker 4: broadcast journalists in America. I believe that we have both

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Speaker 4: had a passion for this, and it goes back for

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Speaker 4: a long time. But tonight I'm not answering any questions.

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Speaker 4: I'm asking Dennis the questions that go back to the

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Speaker 4: days when I was working for PBS and searching for

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Speaker 4: God in America and probing what he really believes about

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Speaker 4: matters of faith. And I'll tell you, the fact that

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Speaker 4: this sold out tells me that this is a subject

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Speaker 4: on which there is limitless interest. So tonight I'm asking

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Speaker 4: Dennis is one of the most scholarly and learned Jews.

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Speaker 4: I know the questions that many Christians non believers have,

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Speaker 4: but at the very beginning, I'd like a show of hands.

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Speaker 4: How many Jews do we have tonight with us? How

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Speaker 4: many Roman Catholics do we have tonight? How many Evangelicals,

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Speaker 4: how many atheists one? How many Mormons do we have tonight?

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Speaker 4: Some of the lds and how many other would include

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Speaker 4: Muslims and Hindus, how many others. It's very diverse crowd,

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Speaker 4: which is fascinating to me. So my very first question

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Speaker 4: Dennis Prager, who is a Jew?

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Speaker 3: That's probably going to be the easiest one to answer.

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Speaker 3: Knowing you and thank you all for coming. And I

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Speaker 3: just want to say, did you want to say a

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Speaker 3: word about the ambivalence about the title or should I I.

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Speaker 4: Will get to that, Okay, then I won't say anything.

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Speaker 3: I first of all, I'm very pleased to see all

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Speaker 3: of you in about seven hundred of you, and that's

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Speaker 3: all the room can fit there. We're both very touched

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Speaker 3: that you came, and I think it's an important venture.

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Speaker 3: And I completely trust my good friend Hugh to ruin

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Speaker 3: my day. I not just, but I do both are true.

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Speaker 3: I trust you completely and you will ruin my day.

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Speaker 3: Who is a Jew is actually a problem for a

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Speaker 3: Jews as well as non Jews, because although there is

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Speaker 3: a very simple answer, it's in practice it's not so simple.

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Speaker 3: A Jew is one who is born a Jew, and

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Speaker 3: I'll define that in a moment, or one who converts

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Speaker 3: to Judaism. That's the simple answer. In that it's complex

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Speaker 3: and this alone could take a long time, and I

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Speaker 3: don't want to There's other other issues that I'd rather

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Speaker 3: take more time on. But I'll tell you why it

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Speaker 3: is complex on one On the one hand, it's rare

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Speaker 3: today where religion is an affirmation of faith that one

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Speaker 3: can be born one. You're not born a Christian, you

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Speaker 3: affirm it. You are born a Jew like you're born

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Speaker 3: an American. It's it's a peoplehood as well as a religion.

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Speaker 3: And that's it's always been that way in the in

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Speaker 3: the Bible, it's a'm Israel, the people or nation of Israel,

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Speaker 3: and there is no word. In fact, the only time

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Speaker 3: the Hebrew word for religion is used is in the

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Speaker 3: Book of Esther by the villain Hayman, who wants to

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Speaker 3: destroy the Jews, and he says they are not like

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Speaker 3: other religions. So it's the only time in the in

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Speaker 3: the Hebrew Bible that the word religion applied to Jews

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Speaker 3: is used. So it's a people with a certain faith.

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Speaker 3: But you can convert to this people. You can't convert

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Speaker 3: to being Chinese, you just can't. You're You're born Chinese,

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Speaker 3: so you can convert. As well as the famous Book

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Speaker 3: of Ruth, where you have a great example. Your people

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Speaker 3: are my people. Your God is my God. The problems

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Speaker 3: arise this way. First of all, who's born. You know what,

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Speaker 3: if you're born to a Jewish father and not a

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Speaker 3: Jewish mother, then according to rabbinic Jewish law and Rabbinic

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Speaker 3: law prevails for the last at least two thousand years.

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Speaker 3: While in the Bible it was determined by the father,

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Speaker 3: the rabbis determined that by the mother. Because they were

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Speaker 3: certain who the mother was and pre DNA, they were

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Speaker 3: not certain who the father was, and that's the reason

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Speaker 3: the mother came to be the determining element on who

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Speaker 3: was born a Jew. The reform movement in Judaism said,

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Speaker 3: we were also include fathers, which makes sense in the

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Speaker 3: light of Jewish history now that we have DNA. But

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Speaker 3: Jewish law doesn't really change much, and so they're the

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Speaker 3: only ones who change that definition. And as regards conversion,

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Speaker 3: that's the other obstacle within Jewish life. The Orthodox do

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Speaker 3: not accept non Orthodox conversions. And so explain that a

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Speaker 3: little bit. Denis me three major denominations, Reform, Conservative, and Orthodox.

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Speaker 3: You'll surely ask me what I am, so I'll wait

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Speaker 3: to answer that when Hugh asks me. But the Orthodox

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Speaker 3: have a very rigid and I don't say that as

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Speaker 3: a negative, it's just they do. They have a rigid

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Speaker 3: set of criteria for who can be accepted as a Jew.

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Speaker 3: You must, among other things, not only study for a while.

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Speaker 3: You must promise that you will observe Orthodox ritual law,

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Speaker 3: kosher home, kosher outside the home, not to drive on

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Speaker 3: the Sabbath, and you'll send your children to an Orthodox

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Speaker 3: a Jewish school. A whole host of things. The Conservative

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Speaker 3: and Reform do not make such demands on converts, and

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Speaker 3: so the Orthodox don't accept the others. The only reason

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Speaker 3: that matters is that the Orthodox control such matters as

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Speaker 3: the Law of Return in Israel, which says any Jew

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Speaker 3: can become a citizen of Israel upon arrival in Israel.

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Speaker 3: But if the Jew is converted in America or Argentina

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Speaker 3: by a non Orthodox rabbi, then the rabbinet in Israel

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Speaker 3: may not accept that person as a Jew. And that's

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Speaker 3: where the issues arise within Judaism.

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Speaker 4: Now, Dennis, most every denomination in the world seeks converts.

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Speaker 4: They proselytize. Jews, don't or am I wrong about that?

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Speaker 4: And if I'm right about it, why not you are

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Speaker 4: right about it de facto in the last two thousand years.

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Speaker 4: This will come as a surprise to two groups here,

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Speaker 4: non Jews and Jews, and that is that Jews did

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Speaker 4: proselytize very vigorously pre a prior to Jesus, in fact,

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Speaker 4: so much so the New Testament bears testimony to this.

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Speaker 4: Paul says that the Jews would sail oceans to find

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Speaker 4: one convert, cross continents, and sail seas to find one convert.

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Speaker 4: One tenth of the Roman Empire was Jewish at the

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Speaker 4: time of Jesus.

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Speaker 3: That's a lot of people. And that was because Jews

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Speaker 3: did say, hey, how would you like to try out

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Speaker 3: the Sabbath? We got a good thing going here, and

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Speaker 3: they did.

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Speaker 4: But here is the very big reason for difference between

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Speaker 4: Jewish and Christian proselytizing.

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Speaker 3: Two big, big differences. Number one, Judaism never held that

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Speaker 3: you had to be Jewish to go to heaven. Judaism

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Speaker 3: always held that God judges solely by the ethical conduct

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Speaker 3: of a human being. You could be a pagan or

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Speaker 3: an atheist and get into heaven according to Jewish doctrine,

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Speaker 3: and that was that's one of the handful of doctrines

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Speaker 3: that's never changed. In fact, it's harder for a Jew

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Speaker 3: to get into heaven than a non Jew because a

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Speaker 3: Jew has to do hundreds and hundreds of laws according

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Speaker 3: to Judaism or traditional Judaism, whereas a non Jew just

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Speaker 3: has to observe seven basic moral laws, you know, like

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Speaker 3: not sleeping with your grandmother. These are real toughies. And

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Speaker 3: you know, and you guys get in you know, I.

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Speaker 4: Stop. Okay, this is my outline. Shot the hell already.

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Speaker 4: But I'm gonna go with it far down my outline.

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Speaker 4: I want the Jewish understanding of heaven. But I want

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Speaker 4: to preface us, how many of you believe that Jews

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Speaker 4: don't believe in heaven? Generally? I find many Christians who

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Speaker 4: believe that Jews don't believe in hell. The Jewish conception

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Speaker 4: you have a very good right.

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Speaker 3: I'm surprised that so few hands went up, because one

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Speaker 3: of the givens among Jews is that, oh, we don't

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Speaker 3: believe in heaven and Hell. Now this is critical. You

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Speaker 3: must always, whether you're a Jew or not, distinguish between

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Speaker 3: Jews and Judaism. Most Jews don't believe in an afterlife,

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Speaker 3: Judaism does. Jews and Judaism have very many conflicting beliefs.

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Speaker 3: This is one of them. In fact, if you open

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Speaker 3: up the Encyclopedia Judaica, which is a secular, secular, scholarly

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Speaker 3: work about Judaism, and you go to the entry called afterlife,

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Speaker 3: if the first sentence reads Judaism has always affirmed the existence.

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Speaker 4: Of an afterlife always what's it like?

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Speaker 3: Well, I'll give you the funny one and then the

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Speaker 3: serious one. The funny one is I asked my Rabbi

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Speaker 3: this in Yeshiva. I went to Yeshiva till I was eighteen.

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Speaker 3: Yeshiva is an Orthodox Talmutic academy where you learn all

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Speaker 3: your work in Hebrew. So I am fluent in not

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Speaker 3: only in Hebrew, but in biblical Hebrew. And that's why

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Speaker 3: I teach the Torah from Hebrew but in English. And

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Speaker 3: so it was a very thorough grounding.

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Speaker 4: I got till the age of eighteen, and about the

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Speaker 4: fifth grade.

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Speaker 3: I asked the rabbi, said, Rabbi, what is heaven like?

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Speaker 3: We don't have heaven so much as olumhabah, the hereafter

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Speaker 3: the next world. And he said, well, if you are

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Speaker 3: a good and a good Jew, you go to a

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Speaker 3: lumhabbah and you study Torah for eternity. I can't tell

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Speaker 3: you the nightmares that that guy gave me. I remember

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Speaker 3: thinking this is fifth grade. G what's the alternative? Because

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Speaker 3: I remember thinking is it with him? So that is

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Speaker 3: not a pleasant Maybe that's why most Jews rejected the

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Speaker 3: hereafter They got the same answer, the uh it is what?

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Speaker 3: The greatest Jewish philosopher, my Monodes twelfth century eleventh century

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Speaker 3: said there were thirteen basic principles of Judaism, and one

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Speaker 3: of them is that God rewards the good and punishes

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Speaker 3: the bad. A Jew who rejects heaven and Hell rejects

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Speaker 3: a basic Jewish notion that there is ase. It's mind

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Speaker 3: boggling to me that that, I mean, a Jewish atheist,

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Speaker 3: I fully understand, would would reject the idea. But why

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Speaker 3: any Jew who believes that there is a God would

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Speaker 3: reject the notion that there that Hitler and his victims

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Speaker 3: have different fates is mind boggling to me.

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Speaker 4: What do you understand the details at all about zero Elder?

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Speaker 3: And I'm I'm one of the handful of people I

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Speaker 3: know who firmly believes in an afterlife who never speculate,

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Speaker 3: not never, I I really may, I really want to

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Speaker 3: be with with loved ones. That would be a bummer

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Speaker 3: to me to think that, you know, my soul goes there,

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Speaker 3: but the people I've loved here don't. I'm not with.

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Speaker 3: But beyond that, I have zero speculation. It's it's, you know,

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Speaker 3: speculating anything about God is like my dog speculating about me.

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Speaker 4: Does does Dennis Prager or any mainstream branch of Judaism

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Speaker 4: believe in the resurrection of the body yes.

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Speaker 3: It is in fact also one of the thirteen principles

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Speaker 3: the resurrection, and it is stated four times in the

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Speaker 3: most solemn prayer of Judaism, called the Ami Dah, four

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Speaker 3: times in the first few paragraphs, a reference to God

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Speaker 3: resurrecting the dead. Modern Jews have been intoxicated by science

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Speaker 3: and by secularism, so they they're embarrassed by these references.

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Speaker 3: I am not.

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Speaker 4: Now by the way, people are saying, how are you

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Speaker 4: going to do this? And I said, the analogy I'm

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Speaker 4: using for tonight is think of secretariat and shoemaker.

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Speaker 3: Secretariat shoemaker. I don't get it.

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Speaker 4: I really have no chance if he decides to run

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Speaker 4: one direction or the other. None. So I'm gonna I'm

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Speaker 4: gonna do my best.

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Speaker 3: Oh that's a supporting reference.

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Speaker 4: Jokay, all right, that is how all this very serious question, Matt.

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Speaker 4: You may even have to think ali shoemaker and secretariat.

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Speaker 3: Okay, let me just say something. You now saw an

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Speaker 3: action a principle that I learned a good one in

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Speaker 3: Jewish elementary school, and I've said this on the air.

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Speaker 3: We were taught to memorize certain principles of life. One

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Speaker 3: of them was the easily embarrassed don't learn anything. I'm

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Speaker 3: translating from Hebrew Looha by Sean Lohmaide. The easily embarrassed

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Speaker 3: don't learn anything. So I learned not to be easily embarrassed.

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Speaker 3: So here I am from a seven hundred people showing

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Speaker 3: I'm ignorant. But if I weren't willing to do that,

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Speaker 3: I wouldn't have thought it through and learned. And the

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Speaker 3: same with languages. I'm totally prepared to sound goofy in

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Speaker 3: a foreign language, but now I've learned a lot of

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Speaker 3: foreign languages.

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Speaker 4: Dennis and I both agree on the radio the safest

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Speaker 4: thing is to say I don't know when.

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Speaker 3: We do yes exactly. Nobody thinks less of you. They

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Speaker 3: laugh at you, but they don't think less of you.

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Speaker 4: I wanted to point out my producer, Dwayne is here.

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Speaker 4: Stand up for a second, Dwayne, would you wow?

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Speaker 3: Dwayne?

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Speaker 4: Now, Dennis's producer is not here, right, but Dennis's wife

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Speaker 4: is here us or are you? So stand up and

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Speaker 4: let us say hello and greetings. And the fetching missus

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Speaker 4: Hewett is unfortunately up north, so she's not so I

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Speaker 4: get a producer. Ye, this is a very serious question,

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Speaker 4: and I want you to think about it. I don't

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Speaker 4: know if you've been asked this before. I hope I

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Speaker 4: ask you a few things you haven't asked before. When

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Speaker 4: did you first become aware of the Holocaust? And what

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Speaker 4: did what did it mean to you? How did it

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Speaker 4: impact you?

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Speaker 3: I do remember. Actually, it's it's amazing you should ask.

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Speaker 3: I don't think I have ever mentioned this in public.

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Speaker 3: I mean not that I wouldn't, but it's never been raised.

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Speaker 3: How many of you, I'll bet many of you remember

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Speaker 3: the Sunday night television show called The Twentieth Century with

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Speaker 3: Walter Cronkite, Right, many of you do. I learned a

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Speaker 3: lot of history from that show, and I'll never forget

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Speaker 3: sitting in the living room watching it with my parents.

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Speaker 3: So I would say it was in about sixth grade

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Speaker 3: and they had Hitler. They showed video of Hitler and

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Speaker 3: I said, who's he? And they said, oh, he was

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Speaker 3: a terrible man and he killed six million Jews. And

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Speaker 3: I just remember I must have paled. In other words,

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Speaker 3: it hit me what I just heard. And I will

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Speaker 3: say that it never ceased. There isn't a day and

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Speaker 3: this I don't know if this is a Jew gentile

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Speaker 3: divide and it's not a bad thing at all. You know,

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Speaker 3: Armenians think about what happened and to them far more

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Speaker 3: than non Armenians do. So I would fully understand that

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Speaker 3: Jews would think about it more. But I would say

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Speaker 3: that since that day to this day, there isn't a moment,

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Speaker 3: or not on a momentcuse me, There isn't a day

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Speaker 3: that I don't have some thought about the Holocaust. And

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Speaker 3: I am third generation American, I lost no relatives, and

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Speaker 3: yet it had a very transformative effect on me, but

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Speaker 3: not a provincial one. Not they're all out to get

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Speaker 3: the Jews. Rather, humanity stinks, and that's why I'm so

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Speaker 3: concerned about preserving the memory of the Cambodian Holocaust. And nobody,

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Speaker 3: most people don't even know about it, let alone give

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Speaker 3: a damn about it. But I do. That's one of

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Speaker 3: the big reasons I'd went to Cambodia two weeks ago,

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Speaker 3: and so it just.

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Speaker 1: It.

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Speaker 3: You know, when it's snowed, I thought of Jews walking

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Speaker 3: barefoot in the snow, you know, in the camps. I mean,

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Speaker 3: whatever would happen I would think of of the camps.

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Speaker 4: So, Dennis, when did It's a two part question why

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Speaker 4: do so many people hate the Jews with such passion?

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Speaker 4: And what does that do to someone like you, an

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Speaker 4: intellectual living the life of the mind, realizing that there

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Speaker 4: are people out there for never met you, who just

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Speaker 4: hate you by virtue of who you are.

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Speaker 3: Not to mention those who did meet me and hate well,

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Speaker 3: that's so another category.

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Speaker 4: They're mostly Jewish. The ones who never met me and

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Speaker 4: hate me are non Jews, and the ones who met

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Speaker 4: me and hate me are Jews.

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Speaker 3: Just a little dark humor, there were Jews who like me. Okay, Anyway,

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Speaker 3: It was such an important question that my second book

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Speaker 3: is titled Why the Jews?

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Speaker 4: Exactly what you asked, Why the Jews?

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Speaker 3: I commend it to your attention, even if you're not

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Speaker 3: a Jew, because it's a very important issue, and because

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Speaker 3: I also believe anti Americanism has many of the same

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Speaker 3: foundations as anti Semitism. In a nutshell, what it did,

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Speaker 3: over the course of time was convince me that the

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Speaker 3: Jews really are the chosen people, and I believe that

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Speaker 3: that is the ultimate source of Jew hatred. It's such

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Speaker 3: a sensitive subject among Jews that Jews don't talk about it,

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Speaker 3: and Jews who do talk about it like to reject it.

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Speaker 3: They saw it's provincial, it's chauvinistic, and anyway, it's going

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Speaker 3: to if you just Dennis, if you say it publicly,

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Speaker 3: it's just going to cause anti Semitism. But here's the

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Speaker 3: interesting thing, and I make this point lectures to Jews

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Speaker 3: all the time. Does anybody hate the Japanese for thinking

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Speaker 3: that they're chosen? The Japanese have a sun on their

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Speaker 3: flag because they believe they get the sun before the

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Speaker 3: rest of humanity. Nobody hates the Japanese for that. Anybody

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Speaker 3: hate the Chinese for thinking that they're the center of

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Speaker 3: the world. China in Chinese means middle kingdom, middle of

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Speaker 3: the world, and the non Chinese are a notch below Chinese.

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Speaker 3: The Greeks thought they were superior, by the way, Jews

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Speaker 3: never thought they were superior. That's the irony. Choseness never

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Speaker 3: meant superiority. And the Tora goes out of its way

401
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Speaker 3: to say you weren't chosen because you're any better than

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Speaker 3: anybody else. You in fact, you're worse than everybody else.

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Speaker 3: The reason you're chosen is to show the power of

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Speaker 3: the Torah to elevate a bunch of jerks. That's the

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Speaker 3: whole point.

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Speaker 4: If the Jews succeed, nobody could say was innate because

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Speaker 4: we were just a bunch of slaves leaving Egypt culturalists

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Speaker 4: and stupid. And if this people influences the world, it

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Speaker 4: has to be the Torah and God, not innate jewish ability.

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Speaker 4: And so I am convinced that the hatred emanates the

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Speaker 4: preoccupation with Jews.

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Speaker 3: Is irrational, absolutely irrational. We are Israel is as big

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Speaker 3: as El Salvador. If the world were preoccupied with El Salvador,

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Speaker 3: you'd say something's going on there. There was very special people.

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Speaker 3: The very fact that the most powerful nations in history

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Speaker 3: wanted to destroy us says to me, there's something going on,

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Speaker 3: and there really is something going on.

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Speaker 4: So that's what I ultimately on a personal level. Did

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Speaker 4: it impact you at all? No, because.

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Speaker 3: Cause I'm an American too, and I trust America tremendously.

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Speaker 3: I my grandfather, who came from Europe said, like all

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Speaker 3: the Jews who came from Europe, scratch a guy. Guy

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Speaker 3: is not a pejorative, by the way, it's just the

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Speaker 3: word for Nanju means nation. Literally, scratch a guy and

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Speaker 3: you get an anti Semite. This was said by Jews

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Speaker 3: from Europe all the time, because if you scratched the

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Speaker 3: European you did get an antisemily. They had every reason

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Speaker 3: to believe that Europe was saturated with you hatred, but

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Speaker 3: America was not. And so he didn't He couldn't tell

430
00:28:02,659 --> 00:28:04,899
Speaker 3: the difference. A go a gore is a go. A

431
00:28:05,020 --> 00:28:08,100
Speaker 3: nanju is a nanju is a non Jew. And I'll

432
00:28:08,139 --> 00:28:12,540
Speaker 3: never forget one rabbi from the Old Country knew I

433
00:28:12,580 --> 00:28:15,459
Speaker 3: was going to be speaking to a non Jews on

434
00:28:15,540 --> 00:28:21,219
Speaker 3: a panel with Christians, I think it was, and he said, nay, Dennis,

435
00:28:21,219 --> 00:28:26,299
Speaker 3: when they ask you, what is it that Jews most want,

436
00:28:26,780 --> 00:28:32,259
Speaker 3: just answer not to be killed. That was very important.

437
00:28:32,500 --> 00:28:36,019
Speaker 3: That was a very important statement that he made. And

438
00:28:36,060 --> 00:28:39,979
Speaker 3: by the way, I resonate to that, there is something

439
00:28:40,020 --> 00:28:43,940
Speaker 3: to be said about that. But an American Jew taking

440
00:28:43,979 --> 00:28:48,700
Speaker 3: America seriously has a different worldview than a Jew anywhere else.

441
00:28:48,900 --> 00:28:54,580
Speaker 3: Jews everywhere else walk around thinking they better not be

442
00:28:54,700 --> 00:28:58,220
Speaker 3: too loud, not be too Jewish, not be.

443
00:28:58,260 --> 00:28:59,180
Speaker 4: This, not be that.

444
00:29:00,219 --> 00:29:04,739
Speaker 3: I'll never forget in Waco, Texas, not a Jewish center.

445
00:29:06,620 --> 00:29:09,100
Speaker 3: I went to give a speech in rural Texas at

446
00:29:09,100 --> 00:29:13,180
Speaker 3: a retreat. I took my older son, who is Orthodox.

447
00:29:13,300 --> 00:29:18,940
Speaker 3: I'm not. He is and always was or nearly always was,

448
00:29:19,100 --> 00:29:25,340
Speaker 3: and he worriedamica skull cap. So we went to a

449
00:29:26,820 --> 00:29:30,420
Speaker 3: I think it was a dairy queen outside of Waco

450
00:29:30,860 --> 00:29:34,020
Speaker 3: to get them an ice cream cone. So the young

451
00:29:34,100 --> 00:29:39,019
Speaker 3: woman serving said, what's that, pointing to my son's Yamuka said, Oh,

452
00:29:39,020 --> 00:29:43,700
Speaker 3: we're Jewish and that's that's what we wear. And she

453
00:29:43,820 --> 00:29:46,820
Speaker 3: looked at him and said, God bless you, young man.

454
00:29:47,060 --> 00:29:51,219
Speaker 3: You always wear that. That's in Waco, Texas and a

455
00:29:51,300 --> 00:29:56,219
Speaker 3: dairy queen. You don't get that reaction in Marseille or

456
00:29:56,300 --> 00:29:58,060
Speaker 3: Brussels or Athens.

457
00:29:58,140 --> 00:30:00,819
Speaker 4: But that brings us, brings us to the title of

458
00:30:00,820 --> 00:30:05,460
Speaker 4: tonight ask a Jew. I'm fairly exercised with my affiliate,

459
00:30:05,540 --> 00:30:09,380
Speaker 4: Dennis affiliateor Kerrie La because they wouldn't use aska Jew

460
00:30:09,780 --> 00:30:13,099
Speaker 4: in their advertising. I talked about it with Dennis all

461
00:30:13,140 --> 00:30:14,380
Speaker 4: the time. You didn't see it in the video. You

462
00:30:14,420 --> 00:30:17,099
Speaker 4: want to see it back there. Fairly exercised about this

463
00:30:17,500 --> 00:30:19,180
Speaker 4: because we're going to take this on the road. We're

464
00:30:19,180 --> 00:30:20,620
Speaker 4: gonna do this like I could do this with Dennis

465
00:30:20,820 --> 00:30:23,380
Speaker 4: again and again and again. But the reason I called

466
00:30:23,420 --> 00:30:26,820
Speaker 4: it ask a Jew is because anti Semitism is returning

467
00:30:26,979 --> 00:30:30,499
Speaker 4: to the United States. It is flourishing in Europe. And

468
00:30:30,540 --> 00:30:34,380
Speaker 4: if you can't name it, you can't kill it. And Dennis,

469
00:30:34,420 --> 00:30:36,420
Speaker 4: why do you think people are even afraid to say

470
00:30:36,459 --> 00:30:38,380
Speaker 4: aska jew or use the term Jew.

471
00:30:38,780 --> 00:30:41,019
Speaker 3: Well, that's the thing. People are afraid to use the

472
00:30:41,020 --> 00:30:44,499
Speaker 3: word Jew. That's why they'll always say he's Jewish. You

473
00:30:44,500 --> 00:30:48,340
Speaker 3: don't say he's Christian. You say he's a Christian, he's

474
00:30:48,420 --> 00:30:54,060
Speaker 3: a Muslim, he's a Buddhist. He but but with Jews,

475
00:30:54,580 --> 00:30:58,420
Speaker 3: it's the it's the use of the adjective. They even

476
00:30:58,459 --> 00:31:01,499
Speaker 3: to the point of say, the people will say Jewish persons.

477
00:31:01,940 --> 00:31:06,540
Speaker 3: You ever hear Christian persons? What's a Christian person? Oh?

478
00:31:06,580 --> 00:31:10,860
Speaker 3: But Jewish person? Oh, that's perfectly usable, and it's used widely.

479
00:31:11,860 --> 00:31:15,620
Speaker 3: There is if the word Jew is so emotion and

480
00:31:15,780 --> 00:31:19,900
Speaker 3: passion laden and was used so much by anti Semites

481
00:31:20,100 --> 00:31:26,140
Speaker 3: as a pejorative that people feel sensitive non Jews feel

482
00:31:26,219 --> 00:31:28,540
Speaker 3: sensitive about using the term. That's the reason.

483
00:31:28,700 --> 00:31:31,740
Speaker 4: And because of that, we've developed an almost i think

484
00:31:31,979 --> 00:31:36,260
Speaker 4: extraordinary tolerance for borderline anti semitism in our popular culture.

485
00:31:36,979 --> 00:31:39,060
Speaker 4: Where do you think anti semitism is in the United

486
00:31:39,060 --> 00:31:39,700
Speaker 4: States today?

487
00:31:40,540 --> 00:31:43,900
Speaker 1: This episode of Timeless Wisdom will continue right after this.

488
00:31:48,380 --> 00:31:53,220
Speaker 1: Now back to more of Dennis Prager's timeless wisdom.

489
00:31:53,540 --> 00:31:56,259
Speaker 3: Well, here is where I wonder, am I out of it?

490
00:31:56,300 --> 00:31:57,059
Speaker 4: Because I.

491
00:31:58,580 --> 00:32:02,660
Speaker 3: Don't see much of it. What I do see, and

492
00:32:03,020 --> 00:32:07,979
Speaker 3: I tell Jewish audiences about this a great deal is,

493
00:32:08,060 --> 00:32:13,219
Speaker 3: of course, israel hatred, which does is to my mind

494
00:32:13,420 --> 00:32:19,299
Speaker 3: not easily distinguishable from aspects of anti Semitism. If the

495
00:32:19,340 --> 00:32:23,579
Speaker 3: only country on Earth you think is illegitimate is the

496
00:32:23,620 --> 00:32:27,220
Speaker 3: only Jewish country, you've got better make a damn good

497
00:32:27,300 --> 00:32:30,700
Speaker 3: case that you're not a Jew hater, because even if

498
00:32:30,739 --> 00:32:35,780
Speaker 3: you don't think you are, in reality, I mean, if

499
00:32:35,780 --> 00:32:38,660
Speaker 3: somebody were to say, all nations on Earth have a

500
00:32:38,739 --> 00:32:42,380
Speaker 3: right to exist except Italy, and I think Italy should

501
00:32:42,420 --> 00:32:49,180
Speaker 3: be destroyed, but I love Italians. Okay, So why don't

502
00:32:49,180 --> 00:32:53,700
Speaker 3: people laugh when people at the university say, yes, Israel

503
00:32:53,780 --> 00:32:57,260
Speaker 3: does not deserve to exist, but I love Jews. It's

504
00:32:57,300 --> 00:33:01,540
Speaker 3: a lie, it's a scummy lie, and it's a genocidal lie.

505
00:33:02,540 --> 00:33:05,420
Speaker 3: But there is one place where it's believed, the University,

506
00:33:05,979 --> 00:33:10,140
Speaker 3: which is the most morally confused institution in the United

507
00:33:10,180 --> 00:33:12,380
Speaker 3: States of America and in the Western world.

508
00:33:19,940 --> 00:33:21,539
Speaker 4: I'll come back again to this, but I want to

509
00:33:21,580 --> 00:33:23,660
Speaker 4: work around from a different way. Do you, Dennis Prager,

510
00:33:24,100 --> 00:33:28,339
Speaker 4: actually believe there was a guy named Moses who actually

511
00:33:28,380 --> 00:33:31,900
Speaker 4: stood in front of Pharaoh and led X number of

512
00:33:31,979 --> 00:33:35,100
Speaker 4: Jews out of Egypt, stopped around the desert for forty years?

513
00:33:35,100 --> 00:33:38,620
Speaker 4: Went up sign I got tablet? Do you actually believe that?

514
00:33:38,820 --> 00:33:42,580
Speaker 4: Or is it a good story to unify a desert people?

515
00:33:43,260 --> 00:33:45,299
Speaker 3: I do believe it, and I'll tell you why I

516
00:33:45,380 --> 00:33:48,660
Speaker 3: believe it. It's one of my many many lectures on

517
00:33:49,300 --> 00:33:54,539
Speaker 3: available through my website why I believe the Torah is divine?

518
00:33:54,700 --> 00:34:00,260
Speaker 3: And here is my biggest single argument for the Torah

519
00:34:00,420 --> 00:34:06,900
Speaker 3: being true. No one has ever made up an ignoble

520
00:34:07,060 --> 00:34:12,540
Speaker 3: history of its people. The Jews of the Torah are

521
00:34:12,660 --> 00:34:18,180
Speaker 3: very unimpressive. First of all, no people ever made up Oh.

522
00:34:18,340 --> 00:34:28,020
Speaker 3: Our ancestors were losers, nobody slaves, nothing's the heroes of

523
00:34:28,060 --> 00:34:29,940
Speaker 3: the Torah the Toe are the first five books of

524
00:34:29,980 --> 00:34:33,820
Speaker 3: the Bible, and they have a special divine in primater

525
00:34:34,060 --> 00:34:36,660
Speaker 3: in traditional Judaism that the rest of the Bible does

526
00:34:36,700 --> 00:34:45,100
Speaker 3: not have. And the notion of making up a history

527
00:34:46,020 --> 00:34:50,739
Speaker 3: that is this unimpressive. And again in that book, the

528
00:34:50,859 --> 00:34:54,499
Speaker 3: non Jews come out often more heroic. I'll just give

529
00:34:54,540 --> 00:34:57,700
Speaker 3: you a few examples. First of all, Noah is not

530
00:34:57,819 --> 00:35:00,779
Speaker 3: Jewish and is one of only two characters in the

531
00:35:00,940 --> 00:35:04,580
Speaker 3: entire Tora described as at sadiq is the is the

532
00:35:04,660 --> 00:35:11,580
Speaker 3: highest Jewish appellation, completely or not completely, but tremendously righteous

533
00:35:11,580 --> 00:35:16,060
Speaker 3: person adjutive or noun. He is a sadik. Therefore it's

534
00:35:16,060 --> 00:35:19,540
Speaker 3: a noun. So Noah was called one, and that's a

535
00:35:19,580 --> 00:35:22,100
Speaker 3: non Jew, and Joe, who is a Jew, is called one,

536
00:35:22,180 --> 00:35:27,380
Speaker 3: so there are only two. The heroine of the entire

537
00:35:27,779 --> 00:35:32,180
Speaker 3: Exodus story is a non Jew, the daughter of Pharaoh.

538
00:35:32,380 --> 00:35:36,140
Speaker 3: She's not only the heroine, she makes the story possible.

539
00:35:36,259 --> 00:35:40,460
Speaker 3: She doesn't save Moses, and it shows you as well

540
00:35:41,219 --> 00:35:43,259
Speaker 3: how the Tory goes out of its way not to

541
00:35:43,299 --> 00:35:48,060
Speaker 3: have Jews hate Egyptians. Moses himself is saved by the

542
00:35:48,219 --> 00:35:56,700
Speaker 3: daughter an Egyptian daughter of the genocidal pharaoh, the Jethro,

543
00:35:56,940 --> 00:36:01,580
Speaker 3: the priest Midianite priest. Without him, Moses can't do anything.

544
00:36:02,540 --> 00:36:05,780
Speaker 3: He's the father in law of Moses. He's a Midianite priest.

545
00:36:05,859 --> 00:36:10,339
Speaker 3: He's not Jewish. And who were the villains who snitches

546
00:36:10,460 --> 00:36:14,459
Speaker 3: on Moses for which reason he has to leave and

547
00:36:14,620 --> 00:36:19,779
Speaker 3: flee from Pharaoh Jews who saw him kill the Taskmaster.

548
00:36:21,380 --> 00:36:24,219
Speaker 3: This notion there is no I have to say, there

549
00:36:24,299 --> 00:36:28,660
Speaker 3: is no parallel that the people of their own book

550
00:36:28,859 --> 00:36:32,739
Speaker 3: look so bad. Christians look pretty good in the New Testament,

551
00:36:33,020 --> 00:36:36,460
Speaker 3: Hindus look pretty good in the Bagavadgitin, Muslims look wonderful

552
00:36:36,819 --> 00:36:39,140
Speaker 3: in the in the Quran, and Jews look awful in

553
00:36:39,219 --> 00:36:42,100
Speaker 3: our own Bible. And that tells me it's true.

554
00:36:42,700 --> 00:36:47,899
Speaker 4: Okay, there's true, and there's true. So I'm asking you,

555
00:36:48,100 --> 00:36:52,140
Speaker 4: are you a literalist when it comes to Talmud? Am

556
00:36:52,180 --> 00:36:54,700
Speaker 4: I a literalist when it comes to Talmud that you

557
00:36:54,739 --> 00:36:58,060
Speaker 4: know that was forty years It was the Ten Commandments

558
00:36:58,100 --> 00:37:00,900
Speaker 4: on stone, that the words that are yeah.

559
00:37:00,739 --> 00:37:02,980
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't see why not I am. I'm not

560
00:37:03,020 --> 00:37:05,339
Speaker 3: a literalist on the Garden of Eden story or with

561
00:37:05,460 --> 00:37:06,620
Speaker 3: the Six Days of Creation.

562
00:37:07,180 --> 00:37:08,660
Speaker 4: I'm going to come back to those because we've talked

563
00:37:08,660 --> 00:37:11,700
Speaker 4: about where did then A lot of people want us to,

564
00:37:11,779 --> 00:37:13,379
Speaker 4: and we have plenty of time, and we're going to

565
00:37:13,420 --> 00:37:16,779
Speaker 4: get to what you understand about Jesus Christian. But then,

566
00:37:16,859 --> 00:37:20,419
Speaker 4: where did the God of Torah go in the last

567
00:37:20,460 --> 00:37:23,779
Speaker 4: few thousand years? He was so ever present in the

568
00:37:23,900 --> 00:37:27,340
Speaker 4: in the Exodus, and then occasionally present through the years

569
00:37:27,339 --> 00:37:29,419
Speaker 4: of both Jerusalem and anxile. Where'd he go?

570
00:37:31,339 --> 00:37:32,219
Speaker 3: That's a toughie.

571
00:37:33,540 --> 00:37:38,379
Speaker 4: Now you're going to get an answer.

572
00:37:38,500 --> 00:37:45,459
Speaker 3: May not expect my view of God has I hate

573
00:37:45,500 --> 00:37:49,979
Speaker 3: the word evolved, because but it has evolved, it may

574
00:37:49,980 --> 00:37:54,980
Speaker 3: be devolved. I believe absolutely in God, just as I

575
00:37:55,020 --> 00:38:03,140
Speaker 3: always did. But I my answer to that question is

576
00:38:03,259 --> 00:38:09,180
Speaker 3: essentially this. I think that God has said, Look, I

577
00:38:09,380 --> 00:38:13,460
Speaker 3: told you, oh man, how to lead a good life.

578
00:38:14,779 --> 00:38:20,219
Speaker 3: If you wish to torture and rape and murder and

579
00:38:20,259 --> 00:38:26,980
Speaker 3: commit genocide, I'm sorry. I gave you a recipe. You

580
00:38:27,060 --> 00:38:30,260
Speaker 3: don't wish to follow it. You live with the consequences.

581
00:38:31,980 --> 00:38:39,259
Speaker 3: I have nothing more to say. It's been said. And secondly,

582
00:38:40,140 --> 00:38:46,060
Speaker 3: I think that God is like a parent. You intervene

583
00:38:46,140 --> 00:38:52,300
Speaker 3: in your children's lives when they're young constantly. You can't

584
00:38:52,299 --> 00:38:55,980
Speaker 3: do that after a certain age, and you watch with

585
00:38:56,140 --> 00:38:59,620
Speaker 3: great sadness if they screw up their lives. But you

586
00:38:59,739 --> 00:39:04,500
Speaker 3: watch a parent bailing their child out who's forty is

587
00:39:04,500 --> 00:39:12,779
Speaker 3: not a good thing. We in our infancy needed intervention regularly.

588
00:39:13,900 --> 00:39:17,859
Speaker 3: We are now adults. What does God. Let's say, God

589
00:39:17,940 --> 00:39:20,500
Speaker 3: came back. What is he going to say, Hey, I

590
00:39:20,739 --> 00:39:25,539
Speaker 3: have no asterisks on the Ten Commandments. They're still applicable.

591
00:39:26,380 --> 00:39:30,339
Speaker 3: What is he going to say? I don't think there

592
00:39:30,380 --> 00:39:34,259
Speaker 3: would be a thing for him to add. Live like

593
00:39:34,339 --> 00:39:37,580
Speaker 3: I told you to live. Spread the word. This is

594
00:39:37,620 --> 00:39:40,500
Speaker 3: my annoyance with my fellow Jews. This is the essence

595
00:39:40,500 --> 00:39:43,379
Speaker 3: of my annoyance. I just spoke to six hundred Jews

596
00:39:43,380 --> 00:39:48,180
Speaker 3: in Charlotte, North Carolina, last week. My speech title was,

597
00:39:49,460 --> 00:39:53,379
Speaker 3: Jews are a messenger who forgot their message, and our

598
00:39:53,460 --> 00:39:55,060
Speaker 3: message is ethical monotheism.

599
00:39:55,540 --> 00:39:57,580
Speaker 4: Spread the word that there is a God.

600
00:39:57,460 --> 00:40:01,739
Speaker 3: Who demands goodness and who judges all of humanity on

601
00:40:01,859 --> 00:40:05,180
Speaker 3: their morality. That's our message, and that without God you

602
00:40:05,219 --> 00:40:08,739
Speaker 3: can't make a good society. An individual atheist can be good,

603
00:40:08,980 --> 00:40:10,220
Speaker 3: but a society won't.

604
00:40:10,739 --> 00:40:14,620
Speaker 4: Now, before we go much further, you said earlier that

605
00:40:14,700 --> 00:40:18,419
Speaker 4: you have a unusual syncretic approach to Judaism. You have

606
00:40:18,460 --> 00:40:21,540
Speaker 4: a different blend. Can you explain that for the benefit

607
00:40:21,580 --> 00:40:24,180
Speaker 4: of everyone here, so that they understand where you're coming from.

608
00:40:24,660 --> 00:40:28,100
Speaker 3: Okay, I'll do it as briefly as I can. I

609
00:40:28,100 --> 00:40:31,459
Speaker 3: think I can do it briefly. The Orthodox Jew has

610
00:40:31,500 --> 00:40:38,419
Speaker 3: the traditional Jewish belief that at Sinai, Moses got the Torah,

611
00:40:38,779 --> 00:40:44,180
Speaker 3: the written Torah and an oral Torah. The oral Torah

612
00:40:44,219 --> 00:40:48,140
Speaker 3: is contained in the book called the Talmud, and not

613
00:40:48,259 --> 00:40:51,180
Speaker 3: all of the Talmut is the oral Torah, but it

614
00:40:51,259 --> 00:40:53,660
Speaker 3: contains all of the oral Tora, so that there are

615
00:40:54,060 --> 00:40:59,020
Speaker 3: immense numbers of laws given to Moses to explicate the

616
00:40:59,060 --> 00:41:04,419
Speaker 3: written law, so that how do you kill? How do

617
00:41:04,500 --> 00:41:08,460
Speaker 3: you kosher slaughter an animal? It's not listed in the Torah.

618
00:41:08,940 --> 00:41:11,939
Speaker 3: According to Orthodox belief, God gave that.

619
00:41:11,940 --> 00:41:16,100
Speaker 4: Method to Moses at Sinai, who passed it to others,

620
00:41:16,100 --> 00:41:18,299
Speaker 4: who passed it to others who passed it down, and

621
00:41:18,339 --> 00:41:21,419
Speaker 4: it was finally written twelve hundred years later in what

622
00:41:21,580 --> 00:41:23,620
Speaker 4: became known as the Mishnah, which is.

623
00:41:24,060 --> 00:41:29,620
Speaker 3: The earlier part of the Talmut. The conservative and reform

624
00:41:29,700 --> 00:41:37,140
Speaker 3: movement basically do not believe that anything was directly given

625
00:41:37,180 --> 00:41:42,299
Speaker 3: by God, but rather it was all man made. Might

626
00:41:42,339 --> 00:41:45,700
Speaker 3: have been men who were on a higher level in

627
00:41:45,900 --> 00:41:52,580
Speaker 3: many instances, but nevertheless men or men and women. I

628
00:41:52,900 --> 00:41:56,620
Speaker 3: fall between the cracks. I believe the Torah is divine,

629
00:41:57,180 --> 00:41:59,739
Speaker 3: but I do not believe in a divine oral law.

630
00:42:01,020 --> 00:42:04,460
Speaker 3: So I am in no man's land a theologically in

631
00:42:04,540 --> 00:42:05,260
Speaker 3: Jewish life.

632
00:42:06,739 --> 00:42:07,460
Speaker 4: But I.

633
00:42:09,140 --> 00:42:12,060
Speaker 3: And I have many, many reasons for why I have

634
00:42:12,180 --> 00:42:16,540
Speaker 3: come to this belief, so that I am a non

635
00:42:16,700 --> 00:42:19,860
Speaker 3: orthodox Jew who believes in the divinity of the Torah.

636
00:42:20,859 --> 00:42:28,060
Speaker 3: Are approximately eight of us, and I know six of them, and.

637
00:42:28,020 --> 00:42:31,859
Speaker 4: Now that sets up as a follower of Jesus. I

638
00:42:31,940 --> 00:42:34,859
Speaker 4: know that those of you who like me came with

639
00:42:34,940 --> 00:42:37,140
Speaker 4: a stack of questions. They all fall into this what

640
00:42:37,180 --> 00:42:39,939
Speaker 4: does dennist think of Jesus? Category? And I want to

641
00:42:39,940 --> 00:42:42,580
Speaker 4: preface this with a little explanation why Dennis and I

642
00:42:42,620 --> 00:42:45,379
Speaker 4: can talk about these things so easily. Dennis, I believe,

643
00:42:45,500 --> 00:42:51,860
Speaker 4: is probably the most proselytized Jew in America. I'm blessed

644
00:42:51,100 --> 00:42:54,339
Speaker 4: and possibly the world. And I'll tell you why we

645
00:42:54,380 --> 00:42:58,259
Speaker 4: are both privileged to work for Salem. Salem is an

646
00:42:58,299 --> 00:43:02,580
Speaker 4: extraordinary company founded by and operated by brothers in law

647
00:43:02,700 --> 00:43:06,339
Speaker 4: who are devout, devout Christians and have lived their faith

648
00:43:06,380 --> 00:43:09,060
Speaker 4: through their work. And almost everyone who works for the

649
00:43:09,100 --> 00:43:12,859
Speaker 4: company they're not necessarily Christian, but they're people of goodwill.

650
00:43:12,980 --> 00:43:15,899
Speaker 4: This is a character based company. In fact, when you

651
00:43:15,940 --> 00:43:18,419
Speaker 4: go back and find our advertisers, I made a list

652
00:43:18,420 --> 00:43:21,060
Speaker 4: in like Roger Stewart Clothes. You're wearing a Rodger Stuart.

653
00:43:21,739 --> 00:43:24,540
Speaker 4: I just check it and it's a beautiful suit. It

654
00:43:24,660 --> 00:43:30,019
Speaker 4: is the Master Great Stuff, Masters College Applied Financial phil

655
00:43:30,060 --> 00:43:32,419
Speaker 4: Liberatory has been at sponsored burs for a long time.

656
00:43:32,500 --> 00:43:33,540
Speaker 3: Gara Biddian Wealth.

657
00:43:34,380 --> 00:43:38,060
Speaker 4: All of these people associate with us because our company

658
00:43:38,100 --> 00:43:42,739
Speaker 4: is known for being extremely ethical, built on character. But

659
00:43:42,819 --> 00:43:45,620
Speaker 4: it also means that from the top down you'll find

660
00:43:45,620 --> 00:43:50,420
Speaker 4: a lot of really smart theology people people. Frank past

661
00:43:50,420 --> 00:43:53,940
Speaker 4: story is just an example of one of our many hosts.

662
00:43:54,020 --> 00:43:57,219
Speaker 4: On the Christian side. We own Christian stations that exclusively

663
00:43:57,259 --> 00:44:00,180
Speaker 4: program in the Christian market, as well as Christian music stations,

664
00:44:00,180 --> 00:44:02,100
Speaker 4: and we have the news talkers, of which Dennis and Airport.

665
00:44:02,380 --> 00:44:04,459
Speaker 4: We have many theologians on the are We have many

666
00:44:04,460 --> 00:44:08,419
Speaker 4: theologians off there and they all talk to Dennis, and

667
00:44:08,540 --> 00:44:13,859
Speaker 4: many of them try to persuade Dennis, he's so right

668
00:44:13,900 --> 00:44:16,540
Speaker 4: about so much. You simply are a Christian. You don't

669
00:44:16,580 --> 00:44:20,299
Speaker 4: even know it. Dennis, I'm sure you've heard that before, right,

670
00:44:20,380 --> 00:44:23,420
Speaker 4: So tell us what you think of Jesus.

671
00:44:24,540 --> 00:44:26,980
Speaker 3: Well, this is the only really long answer I'm going

672
00:44:27,060 --> 00:44:29,300
Speaker 3: to give, and the only time I'm going to use notes.

673
00:44:30,420 --> 00:44:33,939
Speaker 3: So I knew this would be asked. No, I knew

674
00:44:33,940 --> 00:44:36,060
Speaker 3: what you didn't tell me you would be asked. But

675
00:44:36,259 --> 00:44:38,060
Speaker 3: come on, ask a Jew? What are you knew? How

676
00:44:38,100 --> 00:44:48,299
Speaker 3: are you good to see? What's the suit? Who made

677
00:44:48,299 --> 00:45:00,020
Speaker 3: the suit? How much was it? Did you pay? Retail?

678
00:45:04,140 --> 00:45:06,299
Speaker 3: I got a great story on that before we go on.

679
00:45:07,020 --> 00:45:12,740
Speaker 3: You're gonna love this. So I was at we weren't together.

680
00:45:12,859 --> 00:45:15,500
Speaker 3: We were been together in Philadelphia for our great station

681
00:45:15,580 --> 00:45:19,739
Speaker 3: air w NTP. So there was a huge audience on

682
00:45:19,859 --> 00:45:22,819
Speaker 3: a thousand people in Philadelphia, and I got up and

683
00:45:22,859 --> 00:45:29,700
Speaker 3: I said, I want to thank w NTP nine eighty

684
00:45:30,779 --> 00:45:36,420
Speaker 3: on your dial. And then they all yell out nine ninety.

685
00:45:36,540 --> 00:45:38,739
Speaker 3: And I was very proud of my quip. I looked

686
00:45:38,739 --> 00:45:41,460
Speaker 3: at them and said, and I'm a Jew, and I

687
00:45:41,500 --> 00:45:50,019
Speaker 3: can get it for you for nine eighty. By the way,

688
00:45:50,100 --> 00:45:52,620
Speaker 3: you know there are Jews would be sensitive about that.

689
00:45:52,739 --> 00:45:56,059
Speaker 3: If our reputation is that we get a good deal,

690
00:45:56,140 --> 00:45:57,219
Speaker 3: what's so bad about that?

691
00:45:58,700 --> 00:46:04,739
Speaker 4: What non Jews don't want a good deal? Stupid thou

692
00:46:04,900 --> 00:46:09,060
Speaker 4: south by retail? Is that a Christological belief?

693
00:46:09,180 --> 00:46:13,779
Speaker 3: All right? Okayya just kidna rawing you all right? Here

694
00:46:13,859 --> 00:46:17,340
Speaker 3: goes folks. So are you asking why I don't believe

695
00:46:17,339 --> 00:46:19,499
Speaker 3: in Jesus or what I do think of Jesus. That's

696
00:46:19,500 --> 00:46:20,380
Speaker 3: not the same question.

697
00:46:20,700 --> 00:46:22,819
Speaker 4: What do you think of Jesus? Okay, what do I.

698
00:46:22,779 --> 00:46:28,259
Speaker 3: Think of Jesus is almost unimportant. What's really important is

699
00:46:28,339 --> 00:46:32,900
Speaker 3: the issue of why I, as a Jew, don't believe

700
00:46:33,060 --> 00:46:35,379
Speaker 3: in Jesus the way Christian does. Well, if you don't

701
00:46:35,380 --> 00:46:37,299
Speaker 3: want to answer the question, well, I don't, all right,

702
00:46:37,339 --> 00:46:40,779
Speaker 3: why do I what I think of Jesus? I think

703
00:46:40,859 --> 00:46:41,180
Speaker 3: that he.

704
00:46:41,900 --> 00:46:44,459
Speaker 4: I don't know what to think because as a Jew

705
00:46:44,500 --> 00:46:47,660
Speaker 4: who does not regard the New Testament as divine, only

706
00:46:47,739 --> 00:46:50,339
Speaker 4: the Old Testament and not every single part of the

707
00:46:51,100 --> 00:46:55,899
Speaker 4: Tora specifically, and where the prophets quote God directly, I

708
00:46:55,940 --> 00:46:57,419
Speaker 4: don't know. I don't know if.

709
00:46:57,380 --> 00:46:59,980
Speaker 3: Jesus really did go around and say he was God.

710
00:47:00,779 --> 00:47:04,419
Speaker 3: It's so difficult for me to believe any Jew would

711
00:47:04,460 --> 00:47:09,580
Speaker 3: say that, because the strictures against ever having a divine

712
00:47:09,700 --> 00:47:14,499
Speaker 3: man confluence are so deep in Judaism. It's hard for

713
00:47:14,580 --> 00:47:16,580
Speaker 3: me to believe he actually said it.

714
00:47:17,020 --> 00:47:19,779
Speaker 4: Now I want to I want to hear your longer answer,

715
00:47:19,819 --> 00:47:21,460
Speaker 4: but I'm preface with this. C. S.

716
00:47:21,540 --> 00:47:22,819
Speaker 3: Lewis for him.

717
00:47:22,859 --> 00:47:25,219
Speaker 4: I'm sure many people here have a great affection said,

718
00:47:25,219 --> 00:47:26,940
Speaker 4: if you read the Gospels and you believe them to

719
00:47:26,980 --> 00:47:28,819
Speaker 4: be accurate accounts of the life of Jesus, you are

720
00:47:28,900 --> 00:47:31,459
Speaker 4: left with three choices. Either he is a liar, either

721
00:47:31,540 --> 00:47:33,339
Speaker 4: he is a lunatic, or he is Lord the liar

722
00:47:33,420 --> 00:47:36,660
Speaker 4: lunatic or lord option. Wouldn't you agree that if you

723
00:47:36,739 --> 00:47:39,180
Speaker 4: read the Gospels is accurate history, and he did say

724
00:47:39,219 --> 00:47:40,700
Speaker 4: what he has has said to have said that you

725
00:47:40,739 --> 00:47:42,180
Speaker 4: have to make one of those three choices.

726
00:47:43,819 --> 00:47:47,140
Speaker 3: I don't think. I never found that argument, and I

727
00:47:47,180 --> 00:47:50,180
Speaker 3: love C. S. Lewis, I never found that terribly persuasive,

728
00:47:51,219 --> 00:47:57,060
Speaker 3: because the humans or are touched by the divine and

729
00:47:57,100 --> 00:48:00,620
Speaker 3: he may well have been. See I don't exclude that possibility.

730
00:48:01,500 --> 00:48:03,740
Speaker 3: And I don't know what he said, That's the point

731
00:48:04,700 --> 00:48:08,739
Speaker 3: I don't know. I do know why Jews, if he

732
00:48:08,819 --> 00:48:12,819
Speaker 3: did say that, would have said, this is inconceivable to us.

733
00:48:13,859 --> 00:48:17,180
Speaker 3: No man can be God. We have no allowance for

734
00:48:17,259 --> 00:48:20,940
Speaker 3: that in Judaism, and so they would have just said

735
00:48:21,259 --> 00:48:23,819
Speaker 3: maybe they would have said the guy's a lunatic, if

736
00:48:23,859 --> 00:48:26,700
Speaker 3: in fact that's what they heard. I don't know what

737
00:48:26,779 --> 00:48:29,940
Speaker 3: they said, but I do know that they didn't accept it. Obviously,

738
00:48:30,020 --> 00:48:33,700
Speaker 3: Jews overwhelmingly did not accept it. Let me begin at

739
00:48:33,739 --> 00:48:36,620
Speaker 3: the end and then tell you what I want to

740
00:48:36,660 --> 00:48:38,739
Speaker 3: tell you, because I did a lot of homework for this.

741
00:48:39,060 --> 00:48:41,700
Speaker 4: The reason I did homework is that I very rarely

742
00:48:41,779 --> 00:48:42,500
Speaker 4: talk about this.

743
00:48:42,940 --> 00:48:45,779
Speaker 3: I want to explain this. You've probably heard me say

744
00:48:45,779 --> 00:48:50,019
Speaker 3: on the radio. I debate everything except theology, and that's

745
00:48:50,060 --> 00:48:53,020
Speaker 3: the truth. So I don't bone up on this my

746
00:48:53,180 --> 00:48:57,299
Speaker 3: theological objections to the divinity or messiah ship of Jesus.

747
00:48:58,100 --> 00:48:59,899
Speaker 3: But I knew it would come up today, and I

748
00:48:59,940 --> 00:49:03,580
Speaker 3: have no problem in answering, and so I will address that.

749
00:49:04,500 --> 00:49:07,660
Speaker 3: But let me go to a bottom line and then

750
00:49:07,739 --> 00:49:10,060
Speaker 3: start with the answer. And I will try to be

751
00:49:10,100 --> 00:49:11,899
Speaker 3: as brief as possible, but I have a number of

752
00:49:11,980 --> 00:49:15,060
Speaker 3: notes and it'll make you think. And the last thing

753
00:49:15,100 --> 00:49:17,700
Speaker 3: I want to do is anything but just make you think.

754
00:49:18,020 --> 00:49:21,020
Speaker 3: I really want you to do. What I might on

755
00:49:21,140 --> 00:49:25,860
Speaker 3: radio is clarity rather than agreement. At least you'll understand

756
00:49:26,100 --> 00:49:30,620
Speaker 3: why it is that a Jew wouldn't. But let me

757
00:49:30,819 --> 00:49:33,780
Speaker 3: just say how then this really answers your first question,

758
00:49:33,859 --> 00:49:36,419
Speaker 3: not so much how do I see Jesus as how

759
00:49:36,460 --> 00:49:42,899
Speaker 3: do I see Christianity? Any movement that brings human beings

760
00:49:43,060 --> 00:49:47,620
Speaker 3: to the God of Israel I believe is divine. So

761
00:49:47,700 --> 00:49:51,340
Speaker 3: I am a Jew who believes in the divine role

762
00:49:51,980 --> 00:49:57,259
Speaker 3: of Christianity properly done. I mean, there are terrible Christians

763
00:49:57,259 --> 00:50:02,300
Speaker 3: in history, there are terrible everybody's in history, but properly done,

764
00:50:02,420 --> 00:50:06,259
Speaker 3: and nobody has done it as well as America's Christians. Nobody.

765
00:50:06,779 --> 00:50:08,939
Speaker 3: It's one of the many reasons I'm in love with

766
00:50:09,020 --> 00:50:14,980
Speaker 3: America's Christians and in love with America. But bringing the

767
00:50:15,020 --> 00:50:17,620
Speaker 3: world to the God of Israel and the Torah of Israel.

768
00:50:18,060 --> 00:50:19,700
Speaker 3: You know what I tell Jews. I said, if you

769
00:50:19,819 --> 00:50:23,620
Speaker 3: believed in the divine entity you, my fellow Jews, if

770
00:50:23,660 --> 00:50:25,700
Speaker 3: you believed in the divinity of the Torah as much

771
00:50:25,739 --> 00:50:27,460
Speaker 3: as Christians did.

772
00:50:27,460 --> 00:50:31,660
Speaker 4: The Messiah really would come. That's what I tell Jewish groups.

773
00:50:33,140 --> 00:50:35,459
Speaker 3: I wish Jews believed in the Torah as much as

774
00:50:35,540 --> 00:50:40,340
Speaker 3: Christians believe in the Torah. So we share a tremendous amount.

775
00:50:40,540 --> 00:50:43,620
Speaker 3: We don't share the divinity and messiah ship of Jesus.

776
00:50:43,660 --> 00:50:46,060
Speaker 3: And by the way, that in and of itself is

777
00:50:46,140 --> 00:50:50,939
Speaker 3: an important distinction. If all Christians said was Jesus was

778
00:50:50,980 --> 00:50:53,219
Speaker 3: the Messiah, Jews.

779
00:50:52,900 --> 00:50:56,779
Speaker 4: Would would differ. But Joseph had a lot of beliefs

780
00:50:56,819 --> 00:50:59,259
Speaker 4: that this one was a messiah or this one was

781
00:50:59,259 --> 00:51:03,419
Speaker 4: a messiah. In sixteen sixty six, one half of the

782
00:51:03,500 --> 00:51:07,299
Speaker 4: Jewish people, half far more than the Jews did in

783
00:51:07,420 --> 00:51:10,340
Speaker 4: time of Jesus, believe that a guy named chop Tight's Feet,

784
00:51:11,339 --> 00:51:12,219
Speaker 4: a Turkish.

785
00:51:11,980 --> 00:51:18,100
Speaker 3: Jew, was the Messiah. Jessuph believed in messiahs all through

786
00:51:18,180 --> 00:51:21,859
Speaker 3: Jewish history. So that's not a big it's the divinity

787
00:51:21,900 --> 00:51:27,180
Speaker 3: of Jesus that's the real issue. But I will, I will, Okay,

788
00:51:27,259 --> 00:51:31,219
Speaker 3: let me, let me very quickly go through a few things. No,

789
00:51:31,420 --> 00:51:36,819
Speaker 3: and not in order of importance, but number one, nothing changed.

790
00:51:37,219 --> 00:51:41,020
Speaker 3: Judaism has a clear belief that if the Messiah comes,

791
00:51:41,020 --> 00:51:44,580
Speaker 3: the world changes, not comes a second time. When he

792
00:51:44,660 --> 00:51:49,100
Speaker 3: comes the first time and only time, the world didn't change.

793
00:51:50,180 --> 00:51:53,820
Speaker 3: Hearts of many men changed, But the world is racked

794
00:51:53,819 --> 00:51:56,419
Speaker 3: with evil, and there's a whole list of things that

795
00:51:56,460 --> 00:52:04,339
Speaker 3: are expected, including world peace, including Israel back in its

796
00:52:04,339 --> 00:52:08,739
Speaker 3: biblical borders and governed by a good king, and so

797
00:52:08,819 --> 00:52:09,740
Speaker 3: on and so forth.

798
00:52:10,900 --> 00:52:11,300
Speaker 4: Next.

799
00:52:13,500 --> 00:52:18,620
Speaker 3: Uh.

800
00:52:18,980 --> 00:52:19,420
Speaker 4: Yeah.

801
00:52:19,819 --> 00:52:28,100
Speaker 3: The entire moral underpinning of Jewish scripture is undermined by

802
00:52:28,299 --> 00:52:33,700
Speaker 3: the belief that faith, rather than works, gets you saved.

803
00:52:34,940 --> 00:52:39,460
Speaker 3: The essence of the Jewish message is that God first

804
00:52:39,500 --> 00:52:44,580
Speaker 3: and foremost judges behavior of Jews and non Jews, so

805
00:52:44,620 --> 00:52:50,259
Speaker 3: that a Jewish agnostic who was a good person or

806
00:52:50,299 --> 00:52:54,219
Speaker 3: a non Jewish agnostic has a far better chance of

807
00:52:54,259 --> 00:52:58,739
Speaker 3: getting into heaven than a person who is a firm

808
00:52:58,779 --> 00:53:01,339
Speaker 3: believer and who is a bad person, to which the

809
00:53:01,420 --> 00:53:04,100
Speaker 3: Christian answer is, if you're a bad person and you're

810
00:53:04,100 --> 00:53:10,219
Speaker 3: not really a believer, okay, that's fine. But ironically the

811
00:53:10,339 --> 00:53:15,299
Speaker 3: Christian is almost agreeing with the Jew, then that behavior

812
00:53:15,540 --> 00:53:19,340
Speaker 3: is the determinant. I know, theologically say no, it's grace,

813
00:53:19,980 --> 00:53:23,219
Speaker 3: and it's it's not true, it's faith. But if you

814
00:53:23,339 --> 00:53:26,219
Speaker 3: can't get in with bad behavior, no matter what your

815
00:53:26,259 --> 00:53:29,500
Speaker 3: faith is, then behavior is centual to you too. And

816
00:53:29,580 --> 00:53:32,899
Speaker 3: here's another thing. I don't believe that Jesus believed that

817
00:53:32,940 --> 00:53:38,300
Speaker 3: you got into heaven through faith alone. And the proof

818
00:53:38,500 --> 00:53:42,339
Speaker 3: is the story in Matthew with the Sheep and the

819
00:53:42,380 --> 00:53:48,700
Speaker 3: Goats where he says those who have fed the poor

820
00:53:48,779 --> 00:53:51,379
Speaker 3: and clothe the naked and so on, they will be

821
00:53:51,460 --> 00:53:54,900
Speaker 3: the ones that the Father judges to get into heaven.

822
00:53:55,700 --> 00:53:57,859
Speaker 3: He doesn't say the ones who believe in me, the

823
00:53:57,900 --> 00:54:02,460
Speaker 3: ones who did good deeds. That's Jesus himself and Matthew

824
00:54:03,580 --> 00:54:08,700
Speaker 3: that's speaking like a Jew. Next, there is no concept

825
00:54:08,819 --> 00:54:13,420
Speaker 3: of human sacrifice as atonement for sin. In Judaism, Jews

826
00:54:13,420 --> 00:54:16,419
Speaker 3: would have recoiled at the idea that a human can

827
00:54:16,460 --> 00:54:18,459
Speaker 3: be sacrificed as atonement.

828
00:54:18,739 --> 00:54:22,540
Speaker 4: What about the story of Isaiah and Abraham. Well, that's

829
00:54:22,580 --> 00:54:27,459
Speaker 4: the story that proves God doesn't want human sacrifice.

830
00:54:27,060 --> 00:54:27,979
Speaker 3: Not foreshadowing.

831
00:54:28,020 --> 00:54:31,180
Speaker 4: A Christian would say that that's foreshadowing we ultimate sacrifice

832
00:54:31,180 --> 00:54:34,620
Speaker 4: of the Sun, and that's fine with me. But if

833
00:54:34,660 --> 00:54:37,580
Speaker 4: you read the story, the very first verb in the

834
00:54:37,620 --> 00:54:43,340
Speaker 4: story is and God tested Abraham. So God is letting

835
00:54:43,380 --> 00:54:46,260
Speaker 4: you know at the beginning of the story he doesn't

836
00:54:46,299 --> 00:54:47,299
Speaker 4: want this.

837
00:54:47,299 --> 00:54:51,620
Speaker 3: This is a test of Abraham's faith, not a desire

838
00:54:51,700 --> 00:54:53,140
Speaker 3: to see human sacrifice.

839
00:54:53,380 --> 00:54:56,660
Speaker 4: The side note on that, did Jews believe in God

840
00:54:56,900 --> 00:55:01,900
Speaker 4: testing men and women that way today, that he'll intervene

841
00:55:01,980 --> 00:55:04,779
Speaker 4: directly in their lives to put things obstacles in his

842
00:55:04,819 --> 00:55:08,380
Speaker 4: way to test them. Because that gets our atheist friends

843
00:55:08,500 --> 00:55:12,979
Speaker 4: really crazy. It drives Hitchins nuts. It drives Hitchins nuts. Oh,

844
00:55:13,020 --> 00:55:15,739
Speaker 4: you've got a God that plays with people, who dances

845
00:55:15,779 --> 00:55:16,620
Speaker 4: you like a puppet.

846
00:55:17,180 --> 00:55:22,060
Speaker 3: I don't like it either. I have to admit God

847
00:55:22,140 --> 00:55:24,620
Speaker 3: might do it, and who I don't know what God does.

848
00:55:25,219 --> 00:55:28,499
Speaker 3: It's a great Hebrew phrase. In Hebrew, it's three words,

849
00:55:28,580 --> 00:55:30,580
Speaker 3: luja dat i vaitiv. If I knew him, i'd be

850
00:55:30,739 --> 00:55:34,339
Speaker 3: him and I love that one. And I'm not him,

851
00:55:34,420 --> 00:55:40,100
Speaker 3: so I don't know him. Maybe he does. I find

852
00:55:40,140 --> 00:55:43,660
Speaker 3: that I am closer. I hate to say this to

853
00:55:43,739 --> 00:55:48,459
Speaker 3: Hitchins on this than to some others. Maybe God does it.

854
00:55:48,540 --> 00:55:52,339
Speaker 3: But in the case of Abraham, if this is the

855
00:55:52,380 --> 00:55:56,739
Speaker 3: first monotheist, it makes perfect sense he would test him.

856
00:55:57,420 --> 00:56:03,060
Speaker 3: But I will take away so and So's child to

857
00:56:03,219 --> 00:56:07,579
Speaker 3: test what test? How much they love me? I can't

858
00:56:07,660 --> 00:56:10,859
Speaker 3: imagine God doing that. So is God in control of

859
00:56:10,900 --> 00:56:11,700
Speaker 3: everything or not?

860
00:56:11,940 --> 00:56:16,020
Speaker 4: In your understanding, God is in control of everything, but

861
00:56:16,180 --> 00:56:20,700
Speaker 4: he allows everything too. So that are they both are?

862
00:56:20,620 --> 00:56:24,899
Speaker 4: Are they mutually contradictory? Depends what control means. If it

863
00:56:24,940 --> 00:56:29,260
Speaker 4: weren't for God, the world would disintegrate in a nanosecond.

864
00:56:29,739 --> 00:56:34,539
Speaker 4: God's will keeps things going in my opinion, But does

865
00:56:34,620 --> 00:56:41,620
Speaker 4: God determine? How could God determine whether I will be

866
00:56:41,739 --> 00:56:45,100
Speaker 4: a decent human being, whether I will lie on my

867
00:56:45,259 --> 00:56:49,620
Speaker 4: radio show? Or tell the truth and then punish me

868
00:56:49,900 --> 00:56:53,420
Speaker 4: for what he had me do. Then God is unjust

869
00:56:54,180 --> 00:56:57,299
Speaker 4: and to the toe is great credit. It's one of

870
00:56:57,339 --> 00:57:00,899
Speaker 4: the reasons I'm in love with it. The very first Jew,

871
00:57:01,020 --> 00:57:06,100
Speaker 4: the very first Monotheist, fights God. Remember the word israel

872
00:57:06,219 --> 00:57:11,020
Speaker 4: means fight with God. It's in Genesis after Jacob wrestles

873
00:57:11,060 --> 00:57:16,260
Speaker 4: the Angel, and the word israel means to fight with God,

874
00:57:16,340 --> 00:57:18,419
Speaker 4: to struggle with God. I love that.

875
00:57:18,540 --> 00:57:22,860
Speaker 3: It's very liberating, and so shall I continue.

876
00:57:23,540 --> 00:57:24,700
Speaker 4: Okay.

877
00:57:25,700 --> 00:57:29,860
Speaker 3: As for the argument that only blood atones for sins,

878
00:57:30,220 --> 00:57:34,580
Speaker 3: I have two responses. First, it's not true. In the Torah.

879
00:57:34,700 --> 00:57:38,100
Speaker 3: You can bring a grain sacrifice. You do not have

880
00:57:38,140 --> 00:57:41,499
Speaker 3: to bring an animal sacrifice in Leviticus. Check it out.

881
00:57:42,060 --> 00:57:43,900
Speaker 3: If you don't have the money for an animal, you

882
00:57:43,980 --> 00:57:49,500
Speaker 3: bring grain. So the issue is sacrifice, not blood. Secondly,

883
00:57:52,180 --> 00:57:58,100
Speaker 3: the sacrifice is only atoned for ritual sins, violating the Sabbath,

884
00:57:59,100 --> 00:58:04,260
Speaker 3: violating a Jewish holy day, not for any ethical infraction,

885
00:58:04,620 --> 00:58:11,220
Speaker 3: not for stealing, not for murder, nothing. Now, since only

886
00:58:11,380 --> 00:58:19,820
Speaker 3: Jews are according to Christianity, only Jews have to observe

887
00:58:20,060 --> 00:58:25,300
Speaker 3: the the ritual laws of the Torah, then then in

888
00:58:25,300 --> 00:58:32,780
Speaker 3: that case, there the sacrifices only apply to Jews because

889
00:58:32,820 --> 00:58:36,460
Speaker 3: they only atone for sins that only Jews can commit.

890
00:58:38,620 --> 00:58:41,580
Speaker 3: So you can't have it both ways. Either either Christians

891
00:58:41,580 --> 00:58:46,380
Speaker 3: should be keeping kosher and atoning for eating him, or

892
00:58:47,420 --> 00:58:49,860
Speaker 3: it's not applicable the sacrificial system.

893
00:58:50,340 --> 00:58:53,780
Speaker 4: So how do you account as a as a scholar

894
00:58:54,260 --> 00:58:56,180
Speaker 4: at Dennis? I didn't even give his credential as you

895
00:58:56,220 --> 00:58:58,380
Speaker 4: all know that you're here because you know Dennis is

896
00:58:58,380 --> 00:59:01,140
Speaker 4: credential as a scholar. How do you account for the

897
00:59:01,180 --> 00:59:05,260
Speaker 4: extraordinary rise of Christianity? And you know the Christians will

898
00:59:05,260 --> 00:59:07,860
Speaker 4: say that's the Holy Spirit sweeping for would how would

899
00:59:07,860 --> 00:59:08,420
Speaker 4: you do? Itchpine?

900
00:59:09,180 --> 00:59:15,500
Speaker 3: Well, I have two heretical responses. One is heresy visa v.

901
00:59:15,620 --> 00:59:19,579
Speaker 3: Jews and the other is heresy visa v. Christians. Which

902
00:59:19,580 --> 00:59:24,460
Speaker 3: do you want? First? The heresy visa v. Jews? Is

903
00:59:25,700 --> 00:59:30,900
Speaker 3: I regard the rise of Christianity in large measure a

904
00:59:31,020 --> 00:59:36,380
Speaker 3: reaction against the legalism of Judaism. I share that critique.

905
00:59:37,980 --> 00:59:41,700
Speaker 3: That's why I am tora based rather than oral law.

906
00:59:41,740 --> 00:59:44,380
Speaker 3: There are too many laws. I tell this to Jewish groups,

907
00:59:44,380 --> 00:59:47,740
Speaker 3: I tell it the Orthodox groups. They don't all invite me,

908
00:59:48,700 --> 00:59:51,740
Speaker 3: but they all respect me. I will say, to their credit.

909
00:59:51,780 --> 00:59:54,340
Speaker 3: By the way, the Orthodox invited me to their West

910
00:59:54,380 --> 00:59:57,540
Speaker 3: Coast convention to speak on why I'm not Orthodox.

911
00:59:58,140 --> 01:00:01,020
Speaker 4: To their great credit, the Orthodox are far more open

912
01:00:01,060 --> 01:00:06,140
Speaker 4: minded than the liberal denominations of Judaism. Reform would never

913
01:00:06,260 --> 01:00:09,499
Speaker 4: invite me to speak on why I'm not Reform.

914
01:00:09,780 --> 01:00:11,780
Speaker 3: By the way, the irony is, I've been attending a

915
01:00:11,820 --> 01:00:14,620
Speaker 3: Reform synagogue for twenty years and they still wouldn't invite me.

916
01:00:15,420 --> 01:00:19,340
Speaker 3: My synagogue does, but the movement wouldn't because the movement, oh,

917
01:00:19,420 --> 01:00:21,820
Speaker 3: they wouldn't have me on why I'm not a liberal.

918
01:00:21,860 --> 01:00:26,499
Speaker 4: That's it anyway. And the heresy visa the Christians is.

919
01:00:28,260 --> 01:00:31,380
Speaker 3: And this I don't know the answer, but clearly one

920
01:00:31,500 --> 01:00:35,460
Speaker 3: reason for the rise of Christianity was that it was

921
01:00:35,500 --> 01:00:39,100
Speaker 3: made the state religion of Rome. I mean, that was

922
01:00:39,140 --> 01:00:43,620
Speaker 3: a very big deal, would it anyway? I think it

923
01:00:43,660 --> 01:00:48,419
Speaker 3: would have spread anyway much more slowly. And it was

924
01:00:48,500 --> 01:00:52,660
Speaker 3: no blessing, as Christians know, and Protestants in particular many

925
01:00:52,700 --> 01:00:57,020
Speaker 3: Catholics as well, it was no blessing to have undone

926
01:00:57,260 --> 01:01:00,620
Speaker 3: the brilliant inside of the New Testament, rendered to Caesar

927
01:01:00,740 --> 01:01:05,020
Speaker 3: what belongs to Caesar, and render to God what belongs

928
01:01:05,060 --> 01:01:09,180
Speaker 3: to God. That was the beginning of the ability to

929
01:01:09,380 --> 01:01:14,540
Speaker 3: have a non theacratic state. That is a phenomenal gift

930
01:01:14,660 --> 01:01:19,700
Speaker 3: of the New Testament to civilization. But once the state

931
01:01:19,900 --> 01:01:26,140
Speaker 3: became the Holy Roman Empire, it was a disaster for Christianity.

932
01:01:26,180 --> 01:01:28,340
Speaker 3: Even though it's spread more, it was a disaster.

933
01:01:29,020 --> 01:01:33,300
Speaker 4: So, if I understood summarizing, you've given some of the

934
01:01:33,340 --> 01:01:35,620
Speaker 4: reasons as that you don't believe Jesus is divine, but

935
01:01:35,700 --> 01:01:38,020
Speaker 4: you believe Christianity is part of a divine plan that

936
01:01:38,100 --> 01:01:41,300
Speaker 4: is operating in history. Do you think history? By the way,

937
01:01:41,340 --> 01:01:43,020
Speaker 4: let me ask an audience question. How many of you

938
01:01:43,100 --> 01:01:49,300
Speaker 4: are loosely defined end timers we are in the end times?

939
01:01:50,540 --> 01:01:52,580
Speaker 4: And how many say I have no clue?

940
01:01:54,220 --> 01:01:56,100
Speaker 3: How many hope it's the end times?

941
01:01:57,460 --> 01:02:00,539
Speaker 4: What is the what is the Jewish understanding of where

942
01:02:00,620 --> 01:02:04,500
Speaker 4: history is going? How does it end? The Christians have revelation,

943
01:02:04,740 --> 01:02:06,580
Speaker 4: They know the end of the story. They understand it

944
01:02:06,620 --> 01:02:11,260
Speaker 4: to be true. What did Jews believe? Well, global warming?

945
01:02:11,340 --> 01:02:16,140
Speaker 3: You should never yes, exactly, I'm sorry, You're right. The

946
01:02:16,420 --> 01:02:20,420
Speaker 3: uh never asked what the Jews ask? What does Judaism believe?

947
01:02:20,660 --> 01:02:26,660
Speaker 3: What does Judaism say? So the general belief is that

948
01:02:26,740 --> 01:02:30,780
Speaker 3: in God's good time, the Messiah will come and we

949
01:02:30,820 --> 01:02:38,300
Speaker 3: will have a much better world. That's basically it. I

950
01:02:38,340 --> 01:02:41,539
Speaker 3: will say, though, what you need to understand about both

951
01:02:41,620 --> 01:02:46,780
Speaker 3: Jews and Judaism is we are much less theological than Christians.

952
01:02:48,140 --> 01:02:51,539
Speaker 3: It's not better or worse. Just as a fact. When

953
01:02:51,740 --> 01:02:56,979
Speaker 3: religious Jews get together, they don't talk theology. They talk

954
01:02:57,180 --> 01:03:02,980
Speaker 3: about halaha, Jewish law, or they talk about the most

955
01:03:03,020 --> 01:03:08,020
Speaker 3: common thing. My wife and I two weeks ago Shabbat dinner.

956
01:03:08,460 --> 01:03:11,820
Speaker 3: Shabbad is the Sabbath and Hebrew Friday night. It begins

957
01:03:11,860 --> 01:03:17,380
Speaker 3: at sunset. We went to Kabbad of Cambodia. Amazingly, there

958
01:03:17,460 --> 01:03:21,260
Speaker 3: was a Kabbad house. These are ultra Orthodox Jews who

959
01:03:21,340 --> 01:03:25,060
Speaker 3: open up home houses all over the world for Jews

960
01:03:25,100 --> 01:03:28,780
Speaker 3: to gather, and they're a remarkable group of people. And

961
01:03:28,860 --> 01:03:31,180
Speaker 3: to have one in Cambodia, where no Jews live is

962
01:03:31,220 --> 01:03:34,220
Speaker 3: mind blowing. Uh So, anyway, they had.

963
01:03:34,180 --> 01:03:39,780
Speaker 4: One Jews three I mean, you know, have any Jews?

964
01:03:40,300 --> 01:03:43,300
Speaker 4: So like there were a lot of Christians in Campbell, Okay, there.

965
01:03:45,820 --> 01:03:47,100
Speaker 3: Buddhist.

966
01:03:47,340 --> 01:03:47,780
Speaker 4: Uh.

967
01:03:47,820 --> 01:03:50,220
Speaker 3: There were twenty Jews at the Shabbat dinner, which was

968
01:03:50,260 --> 01:03:53,740
Speaker 3: amazing in and of itself. But they were from everyone

969
01:03:53,900 --> 01:03:55,900
Speaker 3: was from a different country. It was fast, It was

970
01:03:55,940 --> 01:03:58,380
Speaker 3: a great dinner, and he and he knew of me,

971
01:03:58,980 --> 01:04:02,500
Speaker 3: and I was honored by that. And he asked me

972
01:04:02,540 --> 01:04:04,499
Speaker 3: to give what did he ask me to do? Give

973
01:04:04,540 --> 01:04:09,059
Speaker 3: a divar tora? A word about the Torah, usually about

974
01:04:09,100 --> 01:04:12,180
Speaker 3: the portion that we read that week. He did that.

975
01:04:12,500 --> 01:04:16,860
Speaker 3: So I spoke about, uh, the commandment to honor your parents.

976
01:04:16,940 --> 01:04:20,100
Speaker 3: That's what Jews will talk about. Practical stuff. How do

977
01:04:20,140 --> 01:04:23,700
Speaker 3: you honor your parents better? How do you keep shabat better?

978
01:04:24,580 --> 01:04:25,860
Speaker 3: How do you do this better?

979
01:04:26,700 --> 01:04:29,540
Speaker 4: But the theology is just not well, take me back

980
01:04:29,580 --> 01:04:31,180
Speaker 4: to the Messiah for a moment. How do you know

981
01:04:31,220 --> 01:04:33,620
Speaker 4: it's happening or is it just a flash of ana? No,

982
01:04:33,860 --> 01:04:38,820
Speaker 4: you only know what's happening by it worked, It happened.

983
01:04:38,900 --> 01:04:40,900
Speaker 4: How do you know what touchdown has scored because the

984
01:04:40,940 --> 01:04:44,060
Speaker 4: guy went into the end zone, not because he's planning

985
01:04:44,060 --> 01:04:46,100
Speaker 4: on getting into the end zone or claims to be

986
01:04:46,140 --> 01:04:49,580
Speaker 4: the greatest quarterback in history, but because they score. So

987
01:04:49,700 --> 01:04:53,540
Speaker 4: Judaism does not teach to watch at the door. No,

988
01:04:54,660 --> 01:04:58,820
Speaker 4: that's correct. Now, in terms of when Israel is reconstituted

989
01:04:59,060 --> 01:05:03,140
Speaker 4: in nineteen forty eight, what's the theological significance of the air.

990
01:05:03,180 --> 01:05:06,620
Speaker 3: It was yes, the Orthodox claimed, and there were many

991
01:05:06,660 --> 01:05:09,419
Speaker 3: prayers on this, although not all Orthodox said it, but

992
01:05:09,500 --> 01:05:13,820
Speaker 3: most did. That Israel is Rahietsma through Latana the beginning

993
01:05:14,140 --> 01:05:18,060
Speaker 3: of the flowering of our redemption. That's the Hebrew wording

994
01:05:18,140 --> 01:05:20,340
Speaker 3: that they would add into their prayers. Where does that

995
01:05:20,340 --> 01:05:25,260
Speaker 3: direct from from the belief that I think, as many

996
01:05:25,340 --> 01:05:28,820
Speaker 3: Christians do, seeing it as a divine sign a My God,

997
01:05:29,020 --> 01:05:31,820
Speaker 3: just as the prophets predicted the Jews would come back

998
01:05:31,860 --> 01:05:34,980
Speaker 3: to their land. There's no parallel to this in human

999
01:05:35,060 --> 01:05:38,939
Speaker 3: history of a people being dispersed two thousand years and

1000
01:05:39,060 --> 01:05:40,180
Speaker 3: coming back to their land.

1001
01:05:40,220 --> 01:05:43,780
Speaker 4: Do you read Walker Percy, great novelist no Walker Percy,

1002
01:05:44,020 --> 01:05:46,540
Speaker 4: great Catholic novelists of the South, won the Book Award

1003
01:05:46,540 --> 01:05:49,019
Speaker 4: in sixty six for the Moviegoer was asked why he

1004
01:05:49,060 --> 01:05:51,260
Speaker 4: was a believer, and he said, when someone explains the

1005
01:05:51,340 --> 01:05:53,820
Speaker 4: Jews to me, then I'll stop being a believer. And

1006
01:05:53,860 --> 01:05:55,180
Speaker 4: that was what you said earlier.

1007
01:05:55,420 --> 01:05:58,900
Speaker 3: That's right, Well, that's a very that's been given by

1008
01:05:58,940 --> 01:06:02,740
Speaker 3: a number of people of Frederick the Great, the German Emperor,

1009
01:06:03,380 --> 01:06:05,780
Speaker 3: was said, at least this is the story. He said

1010
01:06:05,780 --> 01:06:07,380
Speaker 3: to his wise men, I want you to come back

1011
01:06:07,380 --> 01:06:10,019
Speaker 3: with the one word proof of God's existence. And they

1012
01:06:10,060 --> 01:06:12,979
Speaker 3: came back and said, Jews, all right.

1013
01:06:13,020 --> 01:06:15,860
Speaker 4: Now, one of my law students is here chan and

1014
01:06:15,900 --> 01:06:18,180
Speaker 4: I was after class last week. I asked, what would

1015
01:06:18,180 --> 01:06:21,260
Speaker 4: you ask Dennis? He said, ask him about the whole Holocaust?

1016
01:06:21,340 --> 01:06:24,500
Speaker 4: By which I think is this, How can a just

1017
01:06:24,740 --> 01:06:28,380
Speaker 4: God allow the slaughter? And you've just been to Holocaust

1018
01:06:28,460 --> 01:06:31,700
Speaker 4: Land part two? How can a just God allow that?

1019
01:06:34,740 --> 01:06:39,900
Speaker 3: Well, here's what has happened to me with regards to God.

1020
01:06:41,180 --> 01:06:43,060
Speaker 4: It is very upsetting.

1021
01:06:46,660 --> 01:06:48,939
Speaker 3: I won't say who because he's very well known, but

1022
01:06:49,140 --> 01:06:54,019
Speaker 3: a well known Jewish rabbi friend of mine. He's Orthodox, well,

1023
01:06:54,060 --> 01:07:10,380
Speaker 3: he's semi Orthodox, he's publicly orthodox. Um said to me once,

1024
01:07:10,420 --> 01:07:12,780
Speaker 3: he said, Venice, I figured out you can either love

1025
01:07:12,860 --> 01:07:16,180
Speaker 3: man or love God, but you can't love him both.

1026
01:07:17,140 --> 01:07:20,860
Speaker 3: As a very bitter statement about human suffering and the

1027
01:07:20,900 --> 01:07:24,860
Speaker 3: world God created with all the suffering. Now, I know

1028
01:07:25,060 --> 01:07:28,540
Speaker 3: you know I've written and said, you know, you blame

1029
01:07:28,620 --> 01:07:31,940
Speaker 3: man for Auschwitz, you blame man for Cambody, you blame

1030
01:07:31,980 --> 01:07:36,340
Speaker 3: man for the Gulag, you blame man for Mao's seventy million.

1031
01:07:37,980 --> 01:07:42,940
Speaker 3: But there were two answers to that one. God made

1032
01:07:42,980 --> 01:07:48,180
Speaker 3: man and he didn't make an impressive creature. Some are impressive,

1033
01:07:48,740 --> 01:07:52,380
Speaker 3: no question about it. But I love people and I

1034
01:07:52,460 --> 01:07:56,180
Speaker 3: hate humanity. That's been my line, and it's true on both.

1035
01:07:57,180 --> 01:08:00,260
Speaker 3: I'm nuts about people. That's why I love traveling. I

1036
01:08:00,780 --> 01:08:05,499
Speaker 3: love taxi drivers in nam Pen, But humanity I'm very

1037
01:08:05,580 --> 01:08:11,500
Speaker 3: unimpressed with. But that's one. The other is there's a

1038
01:08:11,500 --> 01:08:16,299
Speaker 3: lot of suffering that people don't cause, tsunamis and cancer

1039
01:08:16,340 --> 01:08:20,340
Speaker 3: and all the other stuff. So what do I do

1040
01:08:20,420 --> 01:08:24,780
Speaker 3: with it? First of all, I am prepared, unlike many

1041
01:08:24,780 --> 01:08:29,620
Speaker 3: many people, people who become agnostic, and on the other hand,

1042
01:08:29,620 --> 01:08:33,620
Speaker 3: many believers. I am prepared to walk around not knowing

1043
01:08:33,660 --> 01:08:34,380
Speaker 3: God's ways.

1044
01:08:36,100 --> 01:08:37,820
Speaker 4: I am I have.

1045
01:08:39,900 --> 01:08:44,339
Speaker 3: Judaism gives me peace of mind on this issue because

1046
01:08:44,420 --> 01:08:49,019
Speaker 3: it doesn't attempt to answer the theoticy question. My wife

1047
01:08:49,019 --> 01:08:52,500
Speaker 3: and I have a difference on this, and I think

1048
01:08:52,939 --> 01:08:54,939
Speaker 3: it comes from the fact that I grew up Jewish

1049
01:08:54,979 --> 01:08:59,259
Speaker 3: and she didn't grow up Jewish. I am a total

1050
01:08:59,380 --> 01:09:03,260
Speaker 3: piece with the Book of Job's answer. God looks at

1051
01:09:03,340 --> 01:09:05,820
Speaker 3: Job at the end and says, hey, if you're so

1052
01:09:06,019 --> 01:09:12,259
Speaker 3: smart you think you know everything, tell me where were

1053
01:09:12,300 --> 01:09:15,939
Speaker 3: you when the world was created. Do you know why

1054
01:09:15,979 --> 01:09:18,979
Speaker 3: a mother bear takes care of her cubs? In other words,

1055
01:09:19,059 --> 01:09:22,139
Speaker 3: you don't know minre from Cheyenne. So you're trying to

1056
01:09:22,180 --> 01:09:25,900
Speaker 3: figure out all the tough things about life. Have a

1057
01:09:25,979 --> 01:09:29,979
Speaker 3: nice day job. And I am at total peace with that.

1058
01:09:30,380 --> 01:09:37,259
Speaker 3: I know I can't understand God's ways, So that's all

1059
01:09:37,300 --> 01:09:37,540
Speaker 3: I know.

1060
01:09:37,740 --> 01:09:41,339
Speaker 4: There is a God who created the world. God wants

1061
01:09:41,420 --> 01:09:45,259
Speaker 4: us to be good, gave us a recipe on how

1062
01:09:45,300 --> 01:09:48,500
Speaker 4: to do it through this Bible, and that's it. That's

1063
01:09:48,660 --> 01:09:55,660
Speaker 4: that's basically what I believe. Micah six' eighth is my favorite.

1064
01:09:55,740 --> 01:09:58,860
Speaker 4: Line oh, man Has god not told? You all he

1065
01:09:58,939 --> 01:10:04,179
Speaker 4: wants from you is to pursue, justice love mercy or love,

1066
01:10:04,380 --> 01:10:08,380
Speaker 4: justice pursue mercy and act humbly with Your god is an,

1067
01:10:08,420 --> 01:10:20,340
Speaker 4: actor walk the, walk and, UH i gotta do. THAT

1068
01:10:20,700 --> 01:10:23,380
Speaker 4: i learned it In. HEBREW i always have to do.

1069
01:10:23,420 --> 01:10:25,300
Speaker 4: That but stick with.

1070
01:10:25,380 --> 01:10:32,299
Speaker 3: Me you, see here's an interesting, thing and This i've

1071
01:10:32,620 --> 01:10:33,300
Speaker 3: never said this.

1072
01:10:33,380 --> 01:10:36,179
Speaker 4: Publicly it's my trust of, you my trust of all of.

1073
01:10:36,220 --> 01:10:41,099
Speaker 3: You WHAT i think is most people and this is

1074
01:10:41,180 --> 01:10:42,939
Speaker 3: not said that as a holier than now.

1075
01:10:43,099 --> 01:10:46,220
Speaker 4: Thing most, people most.

1076
01:10:45,979 --> 01:10:50,220
Speaker 3: Religious people are not satisfied with That god wants me

1077
01:10:50,300 --> 01:10:50,500
Speaker 3: to be.

1078
01:10:50,580 --> 01:10:51,700
Speaker 4: Good that's.

1079
01:10:51,740 --> 01:10:54,660
Speaker 3: Boring all be. GOOD i know he wants me to be,

1080
01:10:54,700 --> 01:10:57,700
Speaker 3: Good but there has to be so much more to.

1081
01:10:57,820 --> 01:11:03,580
Speaker 3: Religion and SO i Believe christians added an immense amount

1082
01:11:03,580 --> 01:11:07,179
Speaker 3: of theology And jews added an immense amount of.

1083
01:11:07,260 --> 01:11:11,860
Speaker 4: Laws, Hey, god lightning. Round BECAUSE i do want to

1084
01:11:11,860 --> 01:11:14,620
Speaker 4: get to some of the questions from the. Audience you

1085
01:11:14,700 --> 01:11:18,780
Speaker 4: don't Believe judaism does not believe In, lucifer the sign of,

1086
01:11:18,820 --> 01:11:21,939
Speaker 4: light the als ABOUT i discovered this in a green

1087
01:11:21,979 --> 01:11:24,019
Speaker 4: room In, sacramento AND i, said wait a, minute who's

1088
01:11:24,059 --> 01:11:25,780
Speaker 4: in the? Garden who's in? Job you just caught a.

1089
01:11:25,860 --> 01:11:30,940
Speaker 4: Job explain to people job first of, all.

1090
01:11:31,420 --> 01:11:37,339
Speaker 3: May disappoint, some BUT i accept the Traditional jewish view

1091
01:11:38,099 --> 01:11:42,820
Speaker 3: that job is an. Allegory god doesn't make bets with

1092
01:11:45,019 --> 01:11:47,500
Speaker 3: counter angels or counter.

1093
01:11:47,660 --> 01:11:55,299
Speaker 4: Gods it's there to answer the problem of. Evil from

1094
01:11:55,380 --> 01:12:00,099
Speaker 4: A jewish, standpoint this disturbs, some AND i understand, that

1095
01:12:00,180 --> 01:12:02,780
Speaker 4: AND i don't have an. ARGUMENT i accept it as an.

1096
01:12:02,780 --> 01:12:05,580
Speaker 4: Allegory by the, WAY i believe that that is. TRUE i,

1097
01:12:05,620 --> 01:12:09,620
Speaker 4: SAID i am literalist about forty days ON, sinai But

1098
01:12:09,660 --> 01:12:13,059
Speaker 4: i'm not literalist about The garden Of. EDEN i think

1099
01:12:13,059 --> 01:12:15,139
Speaker 4: The garden Of eden is the most brilliant story ever.

1100
01:12:15,220 --> 01:12:18,860
Speaker 4: Told BUT i believe it's. Allegorical but even IF i

1101
01:12:18,860 --> 01:12:21,139
Speaker 4: don't care that people believe it's. LITERAL i have a

1102
01:12:21,180 --> 01:12:22,740
Speaker 4: problem with the literal on.

1103
01:12:22,820 --> 01:12:26,700
Speaker 3: The days of creation because the text doesn't suggest. That

1104
01:12:27,220 --> 01:12:29,420
Speaker 3: how can you have twenty four hour days before the

1105
01:12:29,460 --> 01:12:29,820
Speaker 3: sun is?

1106
01:12:29,860 --> 01:12:31,260
Speaker 4: Made? Anyway do you believe in?

1107
01:12:31,260 --> 01:12:37,540
Speaker 3: Evolution, WELL i this is here's my, answer And i'm

1108
01:12:37,540 --> 01:12:40,299
Speaker 3: not trying to avoid you at. ALL i don't, care

1109
01:12:43,019 --> 01:12:45,219
Speaker 3: and this is an answer that nobody.

1110
01:12:45,340 --> 01:12:49,660
Speaker 4: Likes that's my. Answer you, two, yeah h you like? It,

1111
01:12:49,700 --> 01:12:56,099
Speaker 4: then oh. Good the only thing about evolution that bugs

1112
01:12:56,140 --> 01:12:59,420
Speaker 4: me is the way they teach it that this explains

1113
01:12:59,500 --> 01:13:00,979
Speaker 4: creation with no need for a.

1114
01:13:01,059 --> 01:13:02,540
Speaker 3: Creator that's.

1115
01:13:02,939 --> 01:13:08,660
Speaker 4: Nonsense but if but IF i share ninety four point

1116
01:13:08,700 --> 01:13:16,019
Speaker 4: two percent OF dna WITH i don't, know the, chimpanzee well,

1117
01:13:16,059 --> 01:13:20,420
Speaker 4: no actually we share ninety something. Higher but even ninety

1118
01:13:20,420 --> 01:13:23,780
Speaker 4: four with some primitive, Organism well was it some stupid?

1119
01:13:23,860 --> 01:13:25,420
Speaker 4: Fish red sox.

1120
01:13:25,180 --> 01:13:26,860
Speaker 3: Fish is redundant.

1121
01:13:28,220 --> 01:13:28,780
Speaker 4: With the red.

1122
01:13:28,820 --> 01:13:32,700
Speaker 3: Sox, ah you see that's. That now there's some dumbfish

1123
01:13:32,860 --> 01:13:35,820
Speaker 3: that we share like a ridiculous amount Of. Danner so

1124
01:13:35,939 --> 01:13:38,860
Speaker 3: obviously there's some. Commonality what DO i?

1125
01:13:38,939 --> 01:13:39,820
Speaker 4: Care There's.

1126
01:13:41,820 --> 01:13:45,460
Speaker 3: I'm crazy about classical. MUSIC i listened to A bach

1127
01:13:45,540 --> 01:13:48,340
Speaker 3: partita AND i go out on my. Mind now DO

1128
01:13:48,460 --> 01:13:52,979
Speaker 3: i think that evolution explains bax? Partidas oh, sure if

1129
01:13:53,019 --> 01:13:56,460
Speaker 3: you have enough, time you go from a fish to. Bach,

1130
01:13:57,620 --> 01:14:02,580
Speaker 3: no the idea strikes me as. PREPOSTEROUS i just so

1131
01:14:02,979 --> 01:14:07,500
Speaker 3: if it's, true. Fine what bothers me is the religion of.

1132
01:14:07,580 --> 01:14:12,340
Speaker 3: SCIENTISM i have no issue with. Science my brother is

1133
01:14:12,420 --> 01:14:16,620
Speaker 3: a professor of medicine At Columbia, university went To Harvard Medical.

1134
01:14:16,660 --> 01:14:20,939
Speaker 3: School he obviously knows, science and he's An Orthodox. Jew

1135
01:14:21,860 --> 01:14:25,260
Speaker 3: he said he Discovered god looking at the cell so

1136
01:14:25,500 --> 01:14:28,099
Speaker 3: complex it doesn't happen by. ITSELF i agree with.

1137
01:14:28,180 --> 01:14:36,099
Speaker 4: Him, okay the concept of a lightning. Round, okay here we,

1138
01:14:36,140 --> 01:14:42,139
Speaker 4: go all his rapid. Answers, okay that's the middle verse Of.

1139
01:14:42,220 --> 01:14:46,900
Speaker 4: Leviticus the middle verse Of leviticus is love your neighbor as.

1140
01:14:46,900 --> 01:14:47,620
Speaker 3: YOURSELF i Am.

1141
01:14:47,700 --> 01:14:53,260
Speaker 4: GOD i once Slammed John carey for saying love your

1142
01:14:53,260 --> 01:14:56,660
Speaker 4: neighbor as yourself was An Old testament, verse And dennis, said,

1143
01:14:56,660 --> 01:14:56,979
Speaker 4: well he's.

1144
01:14:57,019 --> 01:14:58,139
Speaker 3: Right you, know it's the middle verse Of.

1145
01:14:58,180 --> 01:15:01,499
Speaker 4: Leviticus that's in the middle Of. LEVITICUS i, know, nobody,

1146
01:15:01,620 --> 01:15:01,900
Speaker 4: NO i.

1147
01:15:01,900 --> 01:15:05,059
Speaker 3: Know leviticus is not everybody's favorite book for good. Reason

1148
01:15:05,059 --> 01:15:09,620
Speaker 3: it's pretty, boring but it's Got leviticus nineteen is the

1149
01:15:09,620 --> 01:15:13,180
Speaker 3: most sublime ethical chapter in The, Toro.

1150
01:15:14,620 --> 01:15:17,500
Speaker 4: Sex, drugs and rock and. Roll what Does judaism say

1151
01:15:17,500 --> 01:15:18,660
Speaker 4: about gambling.

1152
01:15:19,059 --> 01:15:22,420
Speaker 1: This episode Of timeless W we'll continue right after. This

1153
01:15:26,900 --> 01:15:30,020
Speaker 1: now back to more Of Dennis Praeger's Timeless.

1154
01:15:30,059 --> 01:15:35,900
Speaker 3: Wisdom VERY i Love judaism's approach to. Gambling this is

1155
01:15:36,340 --> 01:15:39,540
Speaker 3: The tora says nothing on, it but The rabbis And

1156
01:15:39,700 --> 01:15:43,300
Speaker 3: judaism is not Just. Tora catholics can relate to not just,

1157
01:15:43,380 --> 01:15:48,460
Speaker 3: scripture and of Course protestants believe just. Scripture but in any,

1158
01:15:48,500 --> 01:15:54,700
Speaker 3: event the rabbinic answer on gambling is. AWESOME A jew

1159
01:15:54,780 --> 01:15:56,860
Speaker 3: is permitted to gamble as long as he doesn't do

1160
01:15:56,939 --> 01:16:01,380
Speaker 3: it for a. Living so if you want to go

1161
01:16:01,420 --> 01:16:03,820
Speaker 3: To vegas and you, know have a little, fun, Fine

1162
01:16:03,900 --> 01:16:06,660
Speaker 3: but if you're going to start depending upon it for your,

1163
01:16:06,700 --> 01:16:09,860
Speaker 3: living that's. Bad that's. Bad and they give a. REASON

1164
01:16:09,900 --> 01:16:13,099
Speaker 3: i love, it because you won't make the world any.

1165
01:16:13,180 --> 01:16:17,979
Speaker 4: BETTER i had read the questions? Beforehand this fits in.

1166
01:16:18,019 --> 01:16:21,380
Speaker 4: Here glee Character, KURT i have never seen an episode Of?

1167
01:16:21,380 --> 01:16:21,740
Speaker 3: Glee have?

1168
01:16:21,780 --> 01:16:28,700
Speaker 4: You? Dennis? Glee? Glee it's a Very how many of

1169
01:16:28,740 --> 01:16:31,939
Speaker 4: you What's? Ghale do you? Know dwayne is A? Glee

1170
01:16:32,059 --> 01:16:34,740
Speaker 4: dwayne watches every? Way how many of you Are glee? Watchers,

1171
01:16:35,059 --> 01:16:37,099
Speaker 4: okay so you'll understand. This so why do you all?

1172
01:16:37,180 --> 01:16:40,700
Speaker 4: Laugh only twenty five hands with? Up because if we

1173
01:16:40,740 --> 01:16:44,860
Speaker 4: know what it. Is glee Character kurt in The Grilled

1174
01:16:44,939 --> 01:16:47,420
Speaker 4: cheese episode said, quote how CAN i believe in A

1175
01:16:47,460 --> 01:16:50,740
Speaker 4: god who made me gay so his people could ridicule

1176
01:16:50,780 --> 01:16:53,419
Speaker 4: me every day of my? Life how can a person

1177
01:16:53,420 --> 01:16:56,019
Speaker 4: of faith take a stand on biblical principles and often

1178
01:16:56,099 --> 01:16:57,660
Speaker 4: Demonstrate god's? Compassion?

1179
01:16:59,660 --> 01:17:02,339
Speaker 3: Well there were. Two there are a lot of answers.

1180
01:17:02,340 --> 01:17:05,300
Speaker 3: Here this can't be, lightning But i'll try to Be,

1181
01:17:05,540 --> 01:17:12,340
Speaker 3: no how about. Thunder i'll try for thunder. First this

1182
01:17:12,420 --> 01:17:19,219
Speaker 3: Notion god made me a h is intellectually, dishonest even

1183
01:17:19,260 --> 01:17:21,780
Speaker 3: though the people who say it mean it with great.

1184
01:17:21,820 --> 01:17:29,500
Speaker 3: CONVICTION i am unimpressed by. Conviction i'm impressed by, rationality

1185
01:17:29,740 --> 01:17:32,660
Speaker 3: not by. Conviction so the fact that people who say

1186
01:17:32,700 --> 01:17:38,019
Speaker 3: it mean it means nothing to me. Nothing the notion

1187
01:17:38,380 --> 01:17:41,420
Speaker 3: That god made a person. This do you know who say?

1188
01:17:41,460 --> 01:17:45,259
Speaker 3: That the deaf. Community that's why they're opposed to the cochlear.

1189
01:17:45,340 --> 01:17:49,380
Speaker 3: Implant they can fix a lot of. Kids the very

1190
01:17:49,700 --> 01:17:53,219
Speaker 3: fact THAT i used to fix is anti. Gay excuse,

1191
01:17:53,260 --> 01:17:58,420
Speaker 3: me anti death. Thinking the deaf community quote unquote is

1192
01:17:58,460 --> 01:18:02,900
Speaker 3: opposed to the surgery that can give a young person

1193
01:18:02,979 --> 01:18:07,740
Speaker 3: their hearing because it implies that hearing is better than.

1194
01:18:07,780 --> 01:18:12,340
Speaker 3: Death and they use the same, Line god made me.

1195
01:18:12,420 --> 01:18:16,700
Speaker 3: DEATH i don't Believe god made anybody. DEATH i don't

1196
01:18:16,700 --> 01:18:21,500
Speaker 3: Believe god made anybody gay Or god made anybody. HETEROSEXUAL

1197
01:18:22,860 --> 01:18:26,900
Speaker 3: i don't think that That god does. That there are gay,

1198
01:18:26,979 --> 01:18:31,380
Speaker 3: people and there are deaf, people and the inability to

1199
01:18:31,420 --> 01:18:33,540
Speaker 3: make love to the same sex is to me a.

1200
01:18:33,580 --> 01:18:38,099
Speaker 3: Tragedy do we therefore hurt these? People if you hurt these,

1201
01:18:38,140 --> 01:18:41,700
Speaker 3: people you've committed an act of. Evil and there is

1202
01:18:41,780 --> 01:18:46,179
Speaker 3: nothing to suggest that we should hurt such. People but

1203
01:18:46,420 --> 01:18:49,820
Speaker 3: we are, allowed we religious people are allowed to say

1204
01:18:49,900 --> 01:18:53,860
Speaker 3: there is a heterosexual, ideal all things being, equal the

1205
01:18:53,939 --> 01:18:56,179
Speaker 3: ideal is for a man and a woman to make,

1206
01:18:56,260 --> 01:18:58,260
Speaker 3: love not a man and a, man and not a

1207
01:18:58,300 --> 01:19:03,580
Speaker 3: woman and a. Woman this is not anti. Anybody i'll

1208
01:19:03,580 --> 01:19:06,059
Speaker 3: give you a Perfect jewish. Example WHEN i was the

1209
01:19:06,099 --> 01:19:09,300
Speaker 3: head of A jewish institute in my late. Twenties it's

1210
01:19:09,300 --> 01:19:12,900
Speaker 3: WHY i came To california tohead A jewish. INSTITUTE i was,

1211
01:19:12,939 --> 01:19:17,540
Speaker 3: single AND i never. FORGET i said to the folks

1212
01:19:17,580 --> 01:19:21,660
Speaker 3: to give them a lesson in Thinking. JEWISH i, said,

1213
01:19:21,660 --> 01:19:27,059
Speaker 3: FOLKS i am, single as you all. Know if you

1214
01:19:27,260 --> 01:19:30,179
Speaker 3: fired me because The jewish ideal is to get, married

1215
01:19:30,420 --> 01:19:33,740
Speaker 3: you would be. Wrong but IF i got up and

1216
01:19:33,780 --> 01:19:38,580
Speaker 3: announced that it doesn't matter whether A jew gets married or,

1217
01:19:38,660 --> 01:19:43,420
Speaker 3: not you should fire me the next. Day you don't

1218
01:19:43,460 --> 01:19:47,900
Speaker 3: fire a, gay but anybody who would announce in A

1219
01:19:47,979 --> 01:19:54,420
Speaker 3: christian or A jewish serious place that the religion sees

1220
01:19:54,500 --> 01:20:00,460
Speaker 3: no difference between sex between same sex people and opposite sex,

1221
01:20:01,059 --> 01:20:06,259
Speaker 3: THEY i don't believe are teaching the religion. Accurately there are.

1222
01:20:06,340 --> 01:20:09,700
Speaker 3: Ideals judaism has an ideal of getting. Married by the,

1223
01:20:09,700 --> 01:20:11,220
Speaker 3: Way it's one of the reasons The jews would have

1224
01:20:11,260 --> 01:20:15,740
Speaker 3: had skepticism About. Jesus he was. Celibate jews don't trust.

1225
01:20:15,780 --> 01:20:21,740
Speaker 3: Celibates they. Don't i'm telling, You jews marry Everybody jewish.

1226
01:20:21,820 --> 01:20:25,860
Speaker 3: Instinct i'll never, FORGET i brought three Three catholic priests

1227
01:20:26,260 --> 01:20:28,939
Speaker 3: to a satyr one, year and they were good looking,

1228
01:20:29,019 --> 01:20:33,420
Speaker 3: guys and the women were setting them up like. Crazy you,

1229
01:20:33,460 --> 01:20:35,660
Speaker 3: KNOW i know a Great catholic, girl AND i kicked

1230
01:20:35,700 --> 01:20:36,180
Speaker 3: them under the.

1231
01:20:36,220 --> 01:20:39,139
Speaker 4: Table he's a. Priest he's a. Priest so WHAT i

1232
01:20:39,180 --> 01:20:46,540
Speaker 4: know a Great catholic? Girl all? Right that? Is do you?

1233
01:20:46,700 --> 01:20:51,019
Speaker 3: Pray oh, man.

1234
01:20:52,260 --> 01:20:52,340
Speaker 4: Not?

1235
01:20:52,540 --> 01:20:55,860
Speaker 3: Much you know WHAT i do to get closer To?

1236
01:20:55,939 --> 01:20:59,900
Speaker 3: GOD i study The. Torah i'm a studier rather than a.

1237
01:20:59,939 --> 01:21:03,620
Speaker 3: Prayer Does god hear prayers and? RESPOND i think That god.

1238
01:21:03,700 --> 01:21:03,900
Speaker 4: Does.

1239
01:21:04,019 --> 01:21:07,660
Speaker 3: YES i think he does hear respond the way we,

1240
01:21:07,700 --> 01:21:11,700
Speaker 3: want not, usually BUT i will tell you this. HERE

1241
01:21:11,740 --> 01:21:13,540
Speaker 3: i want to say a word on behalf Of.

1242
01:21:14,620 --> 01:21:21,059
Speaker 4: CHRISTIANS i love WHEN i, attend which is very Often

1243
01:21:21,180 --> 01:21:25,099
Speaker 4: christian dinners In christian events WHERE i speak and they

1244
01:21:25,140 --> 01:21:29,220
Speaker 4: open up with a. PRAYER i love, it that spontaneous

1245
01:21:29,260 --> 01:21:31,420
Speaker 4: statement and Invoking god into the.

1246
01:21:31,460 --> 01:21:35,939
Speaker 3: Proceedings it moves me. Tremendously jewish PRAYER i have a

1247
01:21:35,939 --> 01:21:40,179
Speaker 3: big problem with because it's all written for you and

1248
01:21:41,780 --> 01:21:44,460
Speaker 3: it's it just Doesn't it doesn't move me. Much that's

1249
01:21:44,500 --> 01:21:46,939
Speaker 3: My that is a. PROBLEM i do have.

1250
01:21:46,979 --> 01:21:51,500
Speaker 4: The essence Of christianity is. Forgiveness, uh what is forgiveness's

1251
01:21:51,620 --> 01:21:51,939
Speaker 4: role In?

1252
01:21:52,019 --> 01:21:57,780
Speaker 3: Judaism the essence Of judaism is fighting, Evil so maybe

1253
01:21:57,780 --> 01:21:58,900
Speaker 3: our essences are a little.

1254
01:21:58,939 --> 01:22:02,860
Speaker 4: Different i'm quite sure that that's not the essence Of,

1255
01:22:02,939 --> 01:22:06,299
Speaker 4: christianity fighting. Evil explain what you mean by, that, WELL

1256
01:22:06,740 --> 01:22:10,299
Speaker 4: i think what every would Most jews agree the essence

1257
01:22:10,340 --> 01:22:10,780
Speaker 4: Of jewish.

1258
01:22:10,780 --> 01:22:14,099
Speaker 3: Faith believe it or, not it's one of the handful

1259
01:22:14,140 --> 01:22:17,540
Speaker 3: of things Most jews would. Agree because the Liberal, jew

1260
01:22:18,380 --> 01:22:22,700
Speaker 3: the liberal Secular jew would say they wouldn't use those.

1261
01:22:22,700 --> 01:22:27,220
Speaker 3: Words they would say fight for social, justice but it

1262
01:22:27,220 --> 01:22:32,259
Speaker 3: would still be in that. Family AND i think. THAT

1263
01:22:32,300 --> 01:22:34,780
Speaker 3: i don't think fighting for social justice and fighting evil are.

1264
01:22:34,820 --> 01:22:36,179
Speaker 3: Identical but that's a separate.

1265
01:22:36,220 --> 01:22:40,939
Speaker 4: Issue BUT i get it from The bible, itself from.

1266
01:22:41,059 --> 01:22:43,820
Speaker 3: Palms those of you who Love god must hate. Evil

1267
01:22:45,580 --> 01:22:49,700
Speaker 3: christians and forgiveness is a very very complex question to me.

1268
01:22:51,740 --> 01:22:55,380
Speaker 3: HERE i think That christians need to think very carefully

1269
01:22:55,500 --> 01:23:03,380
Speaker 3: through because of a lot Of christians have adopted automatic

1270
01:23:03,460 --> 01:23:09,259
Speaker 3: forgiveness as if it's A christian, doctrine AND i, recoil,

1271
01:23:09,700 --> 01:23:12,580
Speaker 3: FRANKLY i really. DO i wrote a piece on that

1272
01:23:12,660 --> 01:23:16,100
Speaker 3: in The Wall Street journal many years ago When President

1273
01:23:17,300 --> 01:23:23,940
Speaker 3: clinton's pastor In washington got up and, said All christians

1274
01:23:23,979 --> 01:23:28,660
Speaker 3: are duty bound to Forgive timothy. McVeigh McVeigh was still,

1275
01:23:28,700 --> 01:23:38,260
Speaker 3: living AND i went. Ballistic who the hell are you to?

1276
01:23:38,420 --> 01:23:43,059
Speaker 4: For who is a to FORGIVE b for MURDERING. C

1277
01:23:45,260 --> 01:23:46,139
Speaker 4: god doesn't do.

1278
01:23:46,260 --> 01:23:51,220
Speaker 3: It christians truly need to rethink their their thinking on.

1279
01:23:51,380 --> 01:23:55,979
Speaker 3: Forgiveness christians do What god doesn't. Do god doesn't forgive

1280
01:23:55,979 --> 01:23:56,580
Speaker 3: you if you don't.

1281
01:23:56,620 --> 01:23:59,540
Speaker 4: Repent we'll think about what you just. Said christians need

1282
01:23:59,580 --> 01:24:03,700
Speaker 4: to rethink their doctrine of. Forgiveness, yes the way they

1283
01:24:03,860 --> 01:24:06,220
Speaker 4: are teaching it and living. It the.

1284
01:24:06,340 --> 01:24:07,780
Speaker 3: Doctrine you tell me what the?

1285
01:24:07,820 --> 01:24:10,340
Speaker 4: Doctrine, no, no no, No i'm a, lawyer not no no

1286
01:24:10,340 --> 01:24:12,860
Speaker 4: no no no no no, no no no.

1287
01:24:12,860 --> 01:24:17,139
Speaker 3: No this is a very serious subject to. Me it

1288
01:24:17,180 --> 01:24:19,420
Speaker 3: bugs the hell out of me because it's What. Chris

1289
01:24:20,019 --> 01:24:21,539
Speaker 3: it depends what the doctrine.

1290
01:24:21,580 --> 01:24:25,299
Speaker 4: Is if the doctrine is that you forgive those who,

1291
01:24:25,340 --> 01:24:27,740
Speaker 4: Repent god Bless christians for their.

1292
01:24:27,780 --> 01:24:29,019
Speaker 3: DOCTRINE i share.

1293
01:24:29,099 --> 01:24:33,059
Speaker 4: It but if you forgive those who don't, REPENT i

1294
01:24:33,059 --> 01:24:35,780
Speaker 4: don't know what your biblical basis. Is you need to

1295
01:24:35,820 --> 01:24:37,700
Speaker 4: open your show of that one tomorrow you'll be.

1296
01:24:37,780 --> 01:24:41,340
Speaker 3: Filled oh, NO i have talked about it film and

1297
01:24:41,380 --> 01:24:43,580
Speaker 3: by the, way a lot Of christians do rethink.

1298
01:24:43,620 --> 01:24:46,259
Speaker 4: It who know this is very?

1299
01:24:46,300 --> 01:24:54,059
Speaker 3: Important McVeigh kills my child and you forgive, McVeigh i.

1300
01:24:54,140 --> 01:24:56,979
Speaker 4: Punch you in the. FACE i would BE i would

1301
01:24:56,979 --> 01:25:03,820
Speaker 4: be furious at. You who the hell are? You wait a?

1302
01:25:03,820 --> 01:25:07,219
Speaker 3: Minute but by the, way to, Understand god doesn't forgive

1303
01:25:07,380 --> 01:25:10,900
Speaker 3: McVeigh unless McVeigh, Repents so why should? You are you

1304
01:25:10,979 --> 01:25:14,059
Speaker 3: better Than? God we have to repent To, god but

1305
01:25:14,140 --> 01:25:18,740
Speaker 3: not to. Humans THIS i have not had this passion

1306
01:25:18,780 --> 01:25:21,820
Speaker 3: on any subject that you raised like this because it

1307
01:25:21,860 --> 01:25:22,460
Speaker 3: doesn't fight.

1308
01:25:22,540 --> 01:25:27,460
Speaker 4: EVIL i forgive. McVeigh who are you to do? That

1309
01:25:29,580 --> 01:25:33,420
Speaker 4: the guy never, repented and he didn't and he didn't hurt.

1310
01:25:33,460 --> 01:25:38,620
Speaker 4: You that's. Why by the, way now here, this do

1311
01:25:38,660 --> 01:25:41,979
Speaker 4: you hope he burns in hell for? Eternity we don't

1312
01:25:41,979 --> 01:25:44,620
Speaker 4: have the doctrine of? Eternity DO i hope he burns in?

1313
01:25:44,660 --> 01:25:47,900
Speaker 4: HELL i hope he is. Punished if McVeigh is not,

1314
01:25:48,059 --> 01:25:51,700
Speaker 4: PUNISHED i AM i hereby announced, PUBLICLY i am an.

1315
01:25:51,740 --> 01:25:56,660
Speaker 4: Atheist all? Right Then god isn't. Good god is not.

1316
01:25:56,979 --> 01:26:00,420
Speaker 3: Just If timothy McVeigh has the same faith as the.

1317
01:26:00,420 --> 01:26:02,420
Speaker 3: People he blew. Up god.

1318
01:26:02,540 --> 01:26:07,740
Speaker 4: Stinks you just, said we don't have the doctrine of.

1319
01:26:07,780 --> 01:26:13,059
Speaker 4: Eternity what do you mean the notion that someone is

1320
01:26:13,140 --> 01:26:17,059
Speaker 4: punished for? Eternity it's just not A jewish. Die i'm

1321
01:26:17,059 --> 01:26:19,380
Speaker 4: not saying yes or. No i've never heard. It it's

1322
01:26:19,420 --> 01:26:25,460
Speaker 4: not we have the doctrine of. Punishment but eternal punishment

1323
01:26:25,700 --> 01:26:28,099
Speaker 4: is A New testament, concept not An old Test so what?

1324
01:26:28,180 --> 01:26:31,900
Speaker 4: HAPPENED i mean you said. Earlier god rewards and punishes

1325
01:26:32,099 --> 01:26:34,059
Speaker 4: leased upon good deeds and bad. Deeds there is a.

1326
01:26:34,099 --> 01:26:37,059
Speaker 4: Heaven Dennis prager intends to be. THERE i get to.

1327
01:26:37,099 --> 01:26:39,099
Speaker 4: Go IF i understood your we all get to. Go

1328
01:26:39,380 --> 01:26:40,860
Speaker 4: we don't even have to keep the laws you have to.

1329
01:26:40,939 --> 01:26:43,780
Speaker 4: Keep but does it not go on forever and? EVER

1330
01:26:44,820 --> 01:26:45,179
Speaker 4: i don't.

1331
01:26:45,180 --> 01:26:49,979
Speaker 3: Know you're asking me questions about divine. JUSTICE i only

1332
01:26:50,059 --> 01:26:54,179
Speaker 3: know that there is divine. Justice what it, Constitutes god,

1333
01:26:54,300 --> 01:26:57,139
Speaker 3: knows AND i am at peace knowing That god is.

1334
01:26:57,340 --> 01:27:02,099
Speaker 4: Just is there a discussion of it In? Talmut whether

1335
01:27:02,140 --> 01:27:02,500
Speaker 4: you're there?

1336
01:27:02,540 --> 01:27:03,979
Speaker 3: Forever? NO i don't.

1337
01:27:03,979 --> 01:27:05,340
Speaker 4: Speculate there's no tradition of.

1338
01:27:05,340 --> 01:27:10,700
Speaker 3: Speculation all, right you want to know what The talmut talks? About, yes?

1339
01:27:10,740 --> 01:27:15,019
Speaker 4: Okay if an egg is laid, On, okay can you eat?

1340
01:27:15,059 --> 01:27:16,419
Speaker 3: It don't want to talk.

1341
01:27:16,300 --> 01:27:20,380
Speaker 4: About the tell me from the. Audience this very thought

1342
01:27:20,380 --> 01:27:22,780
Speaker 4: out question brought tight all so if you ever want

1343
01:27:22,780 --> 01:27:25,019
Speaker 4: to have your question read among the hundreds that are.

1344
01:27:25,019 --> 01:27:28,259
Speaker 4: Here as a Practicing Roman, CATHOLIC i do not see

1345
01:27:28,300 --> 01:27:30,900
Speaker 4: the act of suicide as a solution any, problem nor

1346
01:27:30,979 --> 01:27:33,620
Speaker 4: is a permitted method of avoiding pain and suffering via, physical,

1347
01:27:33,660 --> 01:27:37,500
Speaker 4: mental or. Emotional, however as a practicing psychotherapist who is

1348
01:27:37,540 --> 01:27:40,300
Speaker 4: all too often encountered the desparent hopelessness of people who

1349
01:27:40,340 --> 01:27:43,099
Speaker 4: suffer from depression or other forms of mental, ILLNESS i

1350
01:27:43,140 --> 01:27:46,860
Speaker 4: have difficulty reconciling what my faith teaches about suicide and

1351
01:27:46,900 --> 01:27:49,059
Speaker 4: what some of those WHO i have treated see is

1352
01:27:49,099 --> 01:27:52,219
Speaker 4: their only. Option will you both please present the positions

1353
01:27:52,220 --> 01:27:55,220
Speaker 4: Of judaism and Of christianity with regard to, suicide and

1354
01:27:55,300 --> 01:27:57,740
Speaker 4: if in such, cases as what the severely, depressed mentally

1355
01:27:57,740 --> 01:28:01,099
Speaker 4: ill individual dour, phase see this final act as a

1356
01:28:01,180 --> 01:28:03,860
Speaker 4: sure condemnation To, hell as would be the case In.

1357
01:28:03,939 --> 01:28:06,179
Speaker 4: Christianity let me begin by Saying i'm not going to.

1358
01:28:06,180 --> 01:28:08,780
Speaker 4: ANSWER i have no, idea But i'm very interested in

1359
01:28:08,820 --> 01:28:12,900
Speaker 4: What dennis. Teaches this is where the let me go

1360
01:28:13,059 --> 01:28:16,139
Speaker 4: back to the gay. Issue you have to teach your,

1361
01:28:16,300 --> 01:28:21,220
Speaker 4: ideal and then you must have. Mercy in the, particular

1362
01:28:22,340 --> 01:28:26,019
Speaker 4: the ideal is you don't commit. Suicide religions must teach

1363
01:28:26,099 --> 01:28:29,540
Speaker 4: that because so many people's lives are so pain filled

1364
01:28:29,900 --> 01:28:34,019
Speaker 4: physically and or emotionally that if religion, said, look if

1365
01:28:34,059 --> 01:28:36,660
Speaker 4: you really feel it's, crappy don't worry about, it kill,

1366
01:28:36,700 --> 01:28:39,580
Speaker 4: yourself there would be a lot more, suicide and that

1367
01:28:39,620 --> 01:28:40,460
Speaker 4: would not be a good.

1368
01:28:40,500 --> 01:28:45,019
Speaker 3: Thing on the other, hand this psychotherapist is entirely. Right

1369
01:28:45,099 --> 01:28:49,939
Speaker 3: there are people who. Won anyone with a heart or

1370
01:28:49,979 --> 01:28:53,460
Speaker 3: a conscience understands why they would want to leave the

1371
01:28:53,580 --> 01:28:56,740
Speaker 3: misery that, they through no fault of their, own or

1372
01:28:56,780 --> 01:28:59,979
Speaker 3: even through fault of their, own have gotten. Into so

1373
01:29:00,340 --> 01:29:05,820
Speaker 3: just here this will disturb some religious people. HERE i am.

1374
01:29:05,939 --> 01:29:08,500
Speaker 3: Known in, FACT i was the guy who testified FOR

1375
01:29:08,820 --> 01:29:12,260
Speaker 3: doma In congress The Defensive Marriage. ACT i am a

1376
01:29:12,380 --> 01:29:16,780
Speaker 3: very outspoken defender of male female, marriage And i'm a

1377
01:29:16,900 --> 01:29:20,979
Speaker 3: very end and AND i have paid consequences for it

1378
01:29:21,019 --> 01:29:26,580
Speaker 3: because of the hate filled campaigns against anybody who advocates this.

1379
01:29:26,660 --> 01:29:29,979
Speaker 3: Way mormons here know what they suffered For proposition. Eight

1380
01:29:32,059 --> 01:29:36,620
Speaker 3: having said all of, THAT i introduced a gay male

1381
01:29:36,780 --> 01:29:44,419
Speaker 3: friend to another. MAN i did BECAUSE i don't believe

1382
01:29:44,420 --> 01:29:46,140
Speaker 3: people should be alone in life.

1383
01:29:47,420 --> 01:29:47,500
Speaker 1: And.

1384
01:29:48,700 --> 01:29:54,540
Speaker 3: Relationship, well, well technically A jewish, answer because it's Very,

1385
01:29:54,620 --> 01:29:59,099
Speaker 3: jewish is law. Based it depends what they. Do the

1386
01:29:59,460 --> 01:30:02,179
Speaker 3: prohibition in The tora is not living with a. Man

1387
01:30:02,500 --> 01:30:05,139
Speaker 3: it is lying with a man as you lie with a.

1388
01:30:05,140 --> 01:30:11,500
Speaker 3: Woman so that's the arena of prohibition. Specifically BUT i

1389
01:30:11,540 --> 01:30:15,459
Speaker 3: don't want a gay man to live his life. Alone,

1390
01:30:16,420 --> 01:30:19,540
Speaker 3: now if there were pills available to change a gay

1391
01:30:19,580 --> 01:30:22,340
Speaker 3: man to a STRAIGHT i would like him to take the.

1392
01:30:22,420 --> 01:30:25,380
Speaker 4: PILL i believe in the ideal there are no such.

1393
01:30:25,460 --> 01:30:28,660
Speaker 4: Pills is the scent? Is do you agree that the

1394
01:30:28,700 --> 01:30:36,380
Speaker 4: reason Orthodox jews and Believing christians are despised by many

1395
01:30:36,420 --> 01:30:38,900
Speaker 4: on the left is that they will make moral judgments

1396
01:30:39,300 --> 01:30:43,099
Speaker 4: that inevitably condemn the behaviors that are not otherwise condemned in.

1397
01:30:43,180 --> 01:30:49,660
Speaker 3: Law, well first of, all the people who Condemn jews

1398
01:30:49,660 --> 01:30:52,700
Speaker 3: And christians for making moral judgments make moral judgments all the.

1399
01:30:52,780 --> 01:30:57,299
Speaker 3: Time it's like my professors At columbia who, said, oh

1400
01:30:57,420 --> 01:31:01,299
Speaker 3: morality is all. Relative one man's right is another man's,

1401
01:31:01,300 --> 01:31:04,700
Speaker 3: wrong and vice. Versa and then the next class would

1402
01:31:04,740 --> 01:31:09,019
Speaker 3: tell me how immoral the war In vietnam. Was, well

1403
01:31:09,099 --> 01:31:11,219
Speaker 3: didn't you hear what you said in the last. CLASS

1404
01:31:11,660 --> 01:31:13,660
Speaker 3: i thought you said there is no. Morality it's all.

1405
01:31:13,700 --> 01:31:19,500
Speaker 3: Relative so these people are condemning people who, condemn so

1406
01:31:19,540 --> 01:31:23,620
Speaker 3: they obviously do the exact same thing they're. CONDEMNING i

1407
01:31:23,660 --> 01:31:26,700
Speaker 3: have not Found jews And christians walking around with hate

1408
01:31:26,740 --> 01:31:31,420
Speaker 3: placards against. Homosexuals the ninety nine percent of The christians

1409
01:31:31,420 --> 01:31:34,019
Speaker 3: THAT i talk to on this, matter AND i only

1410
01:31:34,059 --> 01:31:36,179
Speaker 3: Say christians because they're a lot more numerous Than, jews

1411
01:31:36,780 --> 01:31:40,860
Speaker 3: is we love the sinner and hate the, sin AND

1412
01:31:41,380 --> 01:31:45,380
Speaker 3: i think most of them mean. It and what are

1413
01:31:45,380 --> 01:31:48,660
Speaker 3: we supposed to? Say, okay all, right it doesn't, matter

1414
01:31:49,979 --> 01:31:53,460
Speaker 3: doesn't matter if my daughter marries a woman or marries a,

1415
01:31:53,500 --> 01:31:55,820
Speaker 3: man doesn't matter to. Me so long as she's, happy

1416
01:31:56,340 --> 01:32:00,620
Speaker 3: that's what you're supposed to. Say BUT i can't say

1417
01:32:00,620 --> 01:32:04,979
Speaker 3: that if my daughter were in fact incapable of loving a, man.

1418
01:32:06,500 --> 01:32:07,460
Speaker 4: THEN i want her to be.

1419
01:32:07,500 --> 01:32:10,939
Speaker 3: Happy that is, true BUT i will look it's in

1420
01:32:11,019 --> 01:32:13,299
Speaker 3: my own. Family AND i can only say this publicly

1421
01:32:13,300 --> 01:32:15,979
Speaker 3: because she's writing a book on, this AND i love.

1422
01:32:16,019 --> 01:32:19,460
Speaker 4: HER i love her and her female. Partner my niece

1423
01:32:19,500 --> 01:32:20,660
Speaker 4: is a lesbian.

1424
01:32:21,979 --> 01:32:25,420
Speaker 3: AND i love, her and AS i, SAY i love her,

1425
01:32:25,460 --> 01:32:27,700
Speaker 3: partner AND i love when the two of them visit

1426
01:32:27,740 --> 01:32:32,700
Speaker 3: and stay in my. Home and she knows THAT i

1427
01:32:32,780 --> 01:32:36,780
Speaker 3: wish that she were. HETEROSEXUAL i. DO i will not

1428
01:32:36,820 --> 01:32:40,059
Speaker 3: deny that she knows, it her partner knows. It how

1429
01:32:40,059 --> 01:32:43,059
Speaker 3: could they not know. It i'm pretty. Public Uncle dennis

1430
01:32:43,140 --> 01:32:49,540
Speaker 3: is well. Known let, me but so you carry. Both

1431
01:32:50,180 --> 01:32:52,540
Speaker 3: they are not estranged for. ME i don't like when

1432
01:32:52,580 --> 01:32:57,499
Speaker 3: parents do this or relatives and you have no idea

1433
01:32:57,540 --> 01:33:01,219
Speaker 3: how commonness is when people change their. Mind, WELL i

1434
01:33:01,300 --> 01:33:03,620
Speaker 3: now see the. Likeness my daughter is a lesbian or

1435
01:33:03,660 --> 01:33:10,020
Speaker 3: my son is a. Homosexual something is an ideal, religiously

1436
01:33:10,340 --> 01:33:13,900
Speaker 3: whether or not your child. Is if your child has

1437
01:33:13,900 --> 01:33:17,179
Speaker 3: made emotional, BLACKMAIL i will stop loving. You if you

1438
01:33:17,300 --> 01:33:21,580
Speaker 3: continue to believe in your religion's heterosexual, idea your child

1439
01:33:21,660 --> 01:33:23,099
Speaker 3: has done something very wrong for.

1440
01:33:23,180 --> 01:33:27,459
Speaker 4: You by the, way how many of you this overwhelming believing,

1441
01:33:27,500 --> 01:33:30,820
Speaker 4: audience though of many different varieties Like Baskin, robbins how

1442
01:33:30,820 --> 01:33:34,780
Speaker 4: many of you have gay or lesbian close family member

1443
01:33:34,820 --> 01:33:41,459
Speaker 4: whom you love. Unconditionally it's SIMPLY i think you're absolutely

1444
01:33:41,540 --> 01:33:44,860
Speaker 4: right about the Question exodus talks about those who have.

1445
01:33:44,939 --> 01:33:48,740
Speaker 4: Slaves why would the Israel israelites who had just gained

1446
01:33:48,740 --> 01:33:49,860
Speaker 4: freedom want to own or have.

1447
01:33:49,979 --> 01:34:00,420
Speaker 3: Slaves, well the slaves In exodus are indentured, servants and

1448
01:34:00,780 --> 01:34:05,019
Speaker 3: we had that in indentured in. Servitude what was the

1449
01:34:05,059 --> 01:34:08,339
Speaker 3: percentage of whites In america who indentured servants who first

1450
01:34:08,340 --> 01:34:13,059
Speaker 3: came over a? Third a third of the whites whites

1451
01:34:13,220 --> 01:34:14,580
Speaker 3: coming From europe.

1452
01:34:14,620 --> 01:34:19,420
Speaker 4: Were almost on the level of. Slaves they were indentured.

1453
01:34:19,780 --> 01:34:23,979
Speaker 3: Servants this concept has gone on for thousands of years

1454
01:34:24,059 --> 01:34:27,979
Speaker 3: in civilized. Society people owed, debts they worked for somebody

1455
01:34:28,059 --> 01:34:31,500
Speaker 3: until it was paid, off or they just worked for

1456
01:34:31,580 --> 01:34:35,780
Speaker 3: somebody because they couldn't get a. Job america was founded

1457
01:34:36,380 --> 01:34:40,860
Speaker 3: at least a third by such. People so that's what

1458
01:34:40,979 --> 01:34:44,580
Speaker 3: has talked about. There but the laws are spectacularly. Humane,

1459
01:34:44,900 --> 01:34:47,380
Speaker 3: first you must let you give. Them you give the

1460
01:34:47,620 --> 01:34:52,179
Speaker 3: man a, wife which they didn't have. Here we didn't

1461
01:34:52,180 --> 01:34:56,380
Speaker 3: even have here in the Pre. Us you gave the

1462
01:34:56,380 --> 01:34:59,260
Speaker 3: man a, wife he would leave with his wife and his.

1463
01:34:59,380 --> 01:35:02,820
Speaker 3: Children they were not owned by the by the owner

1464
01:35:03,420 --> 01:35:07,380
Speaker 3: of the so called. Slave after seven, years it's. Over

1465
01:35:07,620 --> 01:35:09,979
Speaker 3: and if the slave, said BUT i love my, MASTER

1466
01:35:10,140 --> 01:35:13,499
Speaker 3: i want to. Stay i'm quoting directly from The. Hebrew

1467
01:35:14,019 --> 01:35:16,340
Speaker 3: but if he should SAY i love my master AND

1468
01:35:16,420 --> 01:35:20,220
Speaker 3: i want to, stay then you put them up against

1469
01:35:20,260 --> 01:35:23,380
Speaker 3: a the door post and drill a hole in his

1470
01:35:23,500 --> 01:35:27,979
Speaker 3: ear as a mark of shame for somebody who wants

1471
01:35:28,019 --> 01:35:33,139
Speaker 3: to continue to be a. Slave is the god of The,

1472
01:35:33,220 --> 01:35:41,299
Speaker 3: qoran the god Of. TALMUD i would have an easier

1473
01:35:41,420 --> 01:35:49,979
Speaker 3: time with Is the is the, god as ultimately understood

1474
01:35:50,140 --> 01:35:52,979
Speaker 3: by much of Normative, islam the same as The god

1475
01:35:53,019 --> 01:35:57,059
Speaker 3: of The. TALMUD i don't think. So And i'm not

1476
01:35:57,340 --> 01:36:01,580
Speaker 3: Being i'm not trying to be in any way inflammatory

1477
01:36:01,620 --> 01:36:06,660
Speaker 3: and inflammatory H And i'll tell you. Why i'll give

1478
01:36:06,700 --> 01:36:14,140
Speaker 3: you one. Example As islam, developed The god Of islam

1479
01:36:14,180 --> 01:36:18,580
Speaker 3: became the determiner of everything.

1480
01:36:19,740 --> 01:36:20,340
Speaker 4: There there.

1481
01:36:20,420 --> 01:36:25,700
Speaker 3: Is there's no natural causality in much of Traditional islamic,

1482
01:36:25,780 --> 01:36:30,939
Speaker 3: thought meaning if you shoot an arrow and it hits

1483
01:36:30,979 --> 01:36:34,660
Speaker 3: the bull's, eye it is Because allah willed, it not

1484
01:36:34,860 --> 01:36:39,460
Speaker 3: because you shot accurately and the wind was taken into.

1485
01:36:39,500 --> 01:36:44,740
Speaker 3: Consideration for The, talmud it hit the bull's eye because

1486
01:36:44,780 --> 01:36:48,780
Speaker 3: you shot, accurately and the wind was taken into. Consideration

1487
01:36:50,140 --> 01:36:54,979
Speaker 3: and so a very different understanding if what we mean

1488
01:36:55,059 --> 01:36:56,339
Speaker 3: by is it the Same?

1489
01:36:56,420 --> 01:36:56,939
Speaker 4: God is?

1490
01:36:56,979 --> 01:36:58,900
Speaker 3: It do we understand That? God?

1491
01:36:59,019 --> 01:37:05,820
Speaker 4: Similarly, no we. Don't when Has Dennis praeger? Wept, WELL

1492
01:37:05,900 --> 01:37:10,059
Speaker 4: i have wept at different times for different. Things WHEN

1493
01:37:10,059 --> 01:37:14,059
Speaker 4: i was, YOUNGER i wept at sad, movies and NOW

1494
01:37:14,979 --> 01:37:21,139
Speaker 4: i weep at. KINDNESS i used to weep at, evil

1495
01:37:21,939 --> 01:37:26,179
Speaker 4: and NOW i weep at. Kindness goodness makes me well.

1496
01:37:26,260 --> 01:37:29,019
Speaker 4: Up And i'm getting close to the end here because

1497
01:37:29,019 --> 01:37:30,580
Speaker 4: we're running a long, time AND i want to make

1498
01:37:30,620 --> 01:37:34,700
Speaker 4: sure THAT i do. This the we were in a

1499
01:37:34,740 --> 01:37:38,540
Speaker 4: hotel In, baltimore Was sue AND i. WAS i remarked

1500
01:37:38,580 --> 01:37:41,260
Speaker 4: to him THAT i thought the decline Of western civilization

1501
01:37:41,460 --> 01:37:43,860
Speaker 4: was on the screen of every hotel room with the

1502
01:37:43,900 --> 01:37:47,820
Speaker 4: massive amount of pornography, Available And dennis, responded that's not a,

1503
01:37:47,860 --> 01:37:51,620
Speaker 4: problem something like. That something there was a very different

1504
01:37:51,700 --> 01:37:55,939
Speaker 4: understanding of. Pornography what Is judaism teach.

1505
01:37:55,780 --> 01:38:03,259
Speaker 3: About, well don't ask me What judaism teaches ask me my. Thought, oh, Look,

1506
01:38:03,420 --> 01:38:06,939
Speaker 3: Orthodox now Even Orthodox jews would have a Different Orthodox

1507
01:38:07,019 --> 01:38:21,939
Speaker 3: jews or anti. Pornography but the sexual matters in m

1508
01:38:23,260 --> 01:38:27,219
Speaker 3: in much of Religious jewish, life don't have the same

1509
01:38:27,860 --> 01:38:37,939
Speaker 3: quite it's a very complex. Issue it's a, uh.

1510
01:38:36,420 --> 01:38:40,580
Speaker 4: It easier to be A christian on this, One, Dennis it's, no,

1511
01:38:40,580 --> 01:38:42,780
Speaker 4: no it's it's it's easier to be A, jew but

1512
01:38:42,820 --> 01:38:53,500
Speaker 4: it's harder to answer the. Question it's, well, Look i'll tell.

1513
01:38:53,340 --> 01:38:56,380
Speaker 3: You the, story And i'm Only i'm only as self

1514
01:38:56,420 --> 01:38:58,139
Speaker 3: conscious because my wife has heard it.

1515
01:38:59,500 --> 01:39:00,620
Speaker 4: On more than two dozen.

1516
01:39:00,660 --> 01:39:06,220
Speaker 3: Occasions but it's it's it unfortunately or fortunately it's it

1517
01:39:06,300 --> 01:39:10,860
Speaker 3: is a very powerful explanation of why there is a.

1518
01:39:10,900 --> 01:39:14,179
Speaker 4: Difference AND i do believe there is a difference. There,

1519
01:39:16,140 --> 01:39:17,780
Speaker 4: Well i'll tell you the story and Then i'll give

1520
01:39:17,780 --> 01:39:18,099
Speaker 4: you the.

1521
01:39:18,140 --> 01:39:22,620
Speaker 3: Explanation happen On religion on The, line the PROGRAM i

1522
01:39:22,820 --> 01:39:27,620
Speaker 3: first came to radio In Los angeles ten Years, priest,

1523
01:39:27,660 --> 01:39:31,660
Speaker 3: minister rabbi and. Others each, week different. ONES i would

1524
01:39:31,660 --> 01:39:37,139
Speaker 3: set the topic and they would. Talk so one NIGHT i, said, Okay,

1525
01:39:37,700 --> 01:39:41,540
Speaker 3: rabbi father, pastor we're going to talk about your religion's

1526
01:39:41,620 --> 01:39:49,099
Speaker 3: view of. Lust SO i always did the same thing each, Week, Protestant, Catholic.

1527
01:39:49,220 --> 01:39:53,700
Speaker 3: Jew then the second Round, Jew, Catholic. Protestant, So, pastor

1528
01:39:54,500 --> 01:40:00,740
Speaker 3: your understanding Of christianity's view of? Lust and he Excited

1529
01:40:01,059 --> 01:40:04,259
Speaker 3: jesus And, matthew whoever lust after another woman has committed

1530
01:40:04,300 --> 01:40:06,380
Speaker 3: adult three with his, heart and how terrible it, was

1531
01:40:06,660 --> 01:40:11,500
Speaker 3: what a sin it, was. Etc That christian shutd have pure, thoughts.

1532
01:40:11,620 --> 01:40:16,179
Speaker 3: Etc The Roman catholic priests virtually said the same, thing totally.

1533
01:40:16,260 --> 01:40:19,660
Speaker 3: Understandably and then it was the rabbi's. Turn and the,

1534
01:40:19,740 --> 01:40:22,340
Speaker 3: rabbi in this, case by sheer, chance turned out to

1535
01:40:22,340 --> 01:40:27,420
Speaker 3: be a bearded Ultra orthodox, rabbi AND i had no

1536
01:40:27,500 --> 01:40:31,019
Speaker 3: idea what he would. Say he was From Eastern, europe

1537
01:40:31,059 --> 01:40:33,019
Speaker 3: so he had a slight, accent and he looked at

1538
01:40:33,019 --> 01:40:36,299
Speaker 3: me and he, Said, dennis lust.

1539
01:40:37,340 --> 01:40:41,380
Speaker 4: Schmust that was.

1540
01:40:41,420 --> 01:40:47,540
Speaker 3: It AND i got to, say this is WHAT i

1541
01:40:47,580 --> 01:40:50,179
Speaker 3: Tell jews WHENEVER i tell the. STORY i was never

1542
01:40:50,300 --> 01:40:51,460
Speaker 3: prouder to be A jew in my.

1543
01:40:51,540 --> 01:40:59,420
Speaker 4: Life No christian is going to say lust schmust For.

1544
01:40:59,580 --> 01:41:03,019
Speaker 4: Christians lust is a biggie For. Jews if you do,

1545
01:41:03,140 --> 01:41:05,820
Speaker 4: it it's a. Biggie if you think, it it's not a.

1546
01:41:05,820 --> 01:41:07,460
Speaker 4: Biggie it's a big.

1547
01:41:07,540 --> 01:41:12,860
Speaker 3: Difference that is, why by the, WAY i am convinced

1548
01:41:13,340 --> 01:41:19,900
Speaker 3: why psychoanalysis was developed By. Jews overwhelmingly it was, considered

1549
01:41:19,900 --> 01:41:23,780
Speaker 3: it almost missed as A jewish. Science except for, uh

1550
01:41:24,540 --> 01:41:27,939
Speaker 3: what's his? Name? Young except For? Young they were All,

1551
01:41:28,059 --> 01:41:31,380
Speaker 3: Jews freud and the whole. Gang now secular or, not

1552
01:41:31,460 --> 01:41:34,740
Speaker 3: it doesn't. Matter And i'll tell you Why judaism always

1553
01:41:34,820 --> 01:41:43,340
Speaker 3: allowed free thought and didn't declare thoughts. Sinful let me

1554
01:41:43,380 --> 01:41:47,700
Speaker 3: tell you of an insight that you'll find. Fascinating this

1555
01:41:47,860 --> 01:41:51,380
Speaker 3: is The christian trade that was, made in my, opinion With.

1556
01:41:51,540 --> 01:41:58,620
Speaker 4: Jews jews made a spectacular number of actions. Sinful you,

1557
01:41:58,700 --> 01:42:01,179
Speaker 4: know light a fire on The, sabbath it's a. Sin

1558
01:42:02,780 --> 01:42:06,099
Speaker 4: christianity got rid of that and substituted sinful.

1559
01:42:06,180 --> 01:42:08,620
Speaker 3: Thoughts so pick your.

1560
01:42:08,620 --> 01:42:14,099
Speaker 4: POISON i have five questions, left but before, THAT i

1561
01:42:14,140 --> 01:42:16,580
Speaker 4: want to make SURE i don't forget two, things AND

1562
01:42:16,660 --> 01:42:18,700
Speaker 4: i got one more story. On you gonna make me forget?

1563
01:42:18,740 --> 01:42:19,900
Speaker 4: It you're gonna love, It you're gonna love.

1564
01:42:19,939 --> 01:42:25,060
Speaker 3: It go, ahead, yeshiva, RIGHT i mean. Yeshiva. Boy orthodox

1565
01:42:25,180 --> 01:42:28,939
Speaker 3: rabbis are all my, teachers And judaism Were orthodox. Rabbis

1566
01:42:29,780 --> 01:42:35,179
Speaker 3: my second third year in high. School the rabbi looks

1567
01:42:35,220 --> 01:42:40,900
Speaker 3: at the, boy, says, boys you shouldn't go to a dirty.

1568
01:42:40,939 --> 01:42:44,780
Speaker 3: Movie but if you, go take your yammel go.

1569
01:42:44,860 --> 01:42:55,780
Speaker 4: Off the Late Tim russer tells his story in his

1570
01:42:55,860 --> 01:42:59,979
Speaker 4: wonderful Memoir Big. Russ he went To Kenisius High school In,

1571
01:43:00,019 --> 01:43:02,339
Speaker 4: buffalo and he had to switch buses from the blue

1572
01:43:02,340 --> 01:43:04,059
Speaker 4: collar part of town to go to the ritzy part of.

1573
01:43:04,099 --> 01:43:06,580
Speaker 4: Town and he and the bus stop where all the

1574
01:43:06,580 --> 01:43:08,820
Speaker 4: blue collar kids came was in front of a burlesque.

1575
01:43:08,860 --> 01:43:10,939
Speaker 4: House and so from the time he was in ninth

1576
01:43:10,979 --> 01:43:13,259
Speaker 4: grade and tenth grade and eleventh, grade they talked about

1577
01:43:13,300 --> 01:43:16,500
Speaker 4: getting into the burlesque. House this is mid, sixties and

1578
01:43:16,620 --> 01:43:19,420
Speaker 4: finally they worked up their courage to go over to

1579
01:43:19,460 --> 01:43:22,500
Speaker 4: the burlesque. House seniors for them walked over and they

1580
01:43:22,500 --> 01:43:25,059
Speaker 4: looked the guy taking the ticket and, said does Father

1581
01:43:25,140 --> 01:43:29,940
Speaker 4: frank know you're? Here like they were the First tenisist

1582
01:43:30,019 --> 01:43:33,620
Speaker 4: kids ever to go to the. Burleskas two. Things, one

1583
01:43:33,700 --> 01:43:38,139
Speaker 4: we would very much value hearing from you if you

1584
01:43:38,500 --> 01:43:41,340
Speaker 4: enjoyed this, program what you thought could be improved about?

1585
01:43:41,340 --> 01:43:43,460
Speaker 4: It Because dennis AND i will do this Again hugh

1586
01:43:43,660 --> 01:43:45,780
Speaker 4: At huewitt dot. Com it's the easiest thing in the

1587
01:43:45,780 --> 01:43:48,179
Speaker 4: world to. REMEMBER i will forward them To Dennis hugh

1588
01:43:48,540 --> 01:43:50,860
Speaker 4: At hueweitt dot. Com how many of you would go

1589
01:43:50,939 --> 01:43:51,700
Speaker 4: to ask at?

1590
01:43:51,700 --> 01:43:56,340
Speaker 3: You? Two how many would go to ask A.

1591
01:43:56,420 --> 01:44:01,700
Speaker 4: Jew. Three, okay then wait a, minute how many of

1592
01:44:01,780 --> 01:44:08,860
Speaker 4: you would go to ask A. Presbyterian nobody would go

1593
01:44:08,900 --> 01:44:12,259
Speaker 4: to ask A. Presbyterian give me. Break have you ever

1594
01:44:12,380 --> 01:44:20,979
Speaker 4: heard a great evangelical preacher? Preach? Yes Who John? Hagey he's,

1595
01:44:21,019 --> 01:44:23,939
Speaker 4: powerful he's, powerful but he's not he. Evangelical BUT i

1596
01:44:23,979 --> 01:44:25,820
Speaker 4: was thinking more in terms of Like Earl palmer Or

1597
01:44:25,820 --> 01:44:30,500
Speaker 4: Billy graham or someone who. Who Really i've Heard i'm

1598
01:44:30,540 --> 01:44:34,700
Speaker 4: the theological tradition of The. REVIVAL i Heard Billy graham

1599
01:44:34,700 --> 01:44:35,179
Speaker 4: a number of.

1600
01:44:35,220 --> 01:44:40,139
Speaker 3: TIMES i didn't hear this this other. Gentleman, Okay so

1601
01:44:40,260 --> 01:44:45,340
Speaker 3: you want to know WHAT i. Thought, Yeah, well it's

1602
01:44:45,380 --> 01:44:48,420
Speaker 3: funny because SINCE i was a, child it strolled my

1603
01:44:48,460 --> 01:44:51,420
Speaker 3: parents a little. Nutty not that they they just didn't

1604
01:44:51,500 --> 01:44:54,099
Speaker 3: understand WHY i. Would BUT i would be in the

1605
01:44:54,099 --> 01:44:57,660
Speaker 3: car with them and they, would you, know go through the.

1606
01:44:57,740 --> 01:44:59,220
Speaker 3: Dial then you manually.

1607
01:44:59,260 --> 01:45:01,860
Speaker 4: Go there was no, scam so they would turn the

1608
01:45:01,900 --> 01:45:04,059
Speaker 4: dial and then they would be A christian pastor ON

1609
01:45:04,140 --> 01:45:08,460
Speaker 4: i go. STOP i HEAR i got.

1610
01:45:08,540 --> 01:45:11,259
Speaker 3: Weird, no, no, NO i am, definitely AND i would

1611
01:45:11,340 --> 01:45:15,020
Speaker 3: just BE i was always fascinated By christians And, christianity

1612
01:45:15,540 --> 01:45:17,460
Speaker 3: and SO i would JUST i would, listen AND i

1613
01:45:17,500 --> 01:45:22,019
Speaker 3: would watch the tell evangelist and so. ON I i

1614
01:45:20,979 --> 01:45:26,340
Speaker 3: never had a holier than now FEELING i. Am so,

1615
01:45:27,220 --> 01:45:33,700
Speaker 3: basically are these people contributing to people's lives to make

1616
01:45:33,780 --> 01:45:38,300
Speaker 3: this very difficult journey in life any better than do we?

1617
01:45:38,460 --> 01:45:40,540
Speaker 4: Go i'm going to a different part of that. One

1618
01:45:40,939 --> 01:45:42,900
Speaker 4: not how many times have you heard an altar? Call

1619
01:45:43,019 --> 01:45:46,660
Speaker 4: but how many times have you Heard christians preach on

1620
01:45:46,700 --> 01:45:49,939
Speaker 4: The Old? Testament david is often preached. On i've probably

1621
01:45:49,939 --> 01:45:53,500
Speaker 4: heard more sermons About david than about any other. Figure

1622
01:45:53,580 --> 01:45:57,460
Speaker 4: but The Old testament is alive and being taught all the.

1623
01:45:57,500 --> 01:45:59,540
Speaker 4: Time what do you think of how they handle? It

1624
01:45:59,580 --> 01:46:02,860
Speaker 4: do they get it right most of the? Time they

1625
01:46:02,939 --> 01:46:04,620
Speaker 4: get it right some of the.

1626
01:46:04,740 --> 01:46:08,260
Speaker 3: Time where would there be let's, See i'm trying to

1627
01:46:08,300 --> 01:46:11,740
Speaker 3: think of where we would read something. Differently, well here's a.

1628
01:46:11,820 --> 01:46:15,259
Speaker 4: Question how do you answer the massacres In Joshua judges

1629
01:46:15,660 --> 01:46:18,259
Speaker 4: clans in said of, thousands how Could god allow?

1630
01:46:18,340 --> 01:46:21,500
Speaker 3: That, Well i'm glad you asked how Could god allow?

1631
01:46:21,540 --> 01:46:23,339
Speaker 3: It rather than how Could god direct?

1632
01:46:23,380 --> 01:46:26,939
Speaker 4: It that's usually the, question and it's very trouble, right

1633
01:46:26,979 --> 01:46:27,740
Speaker 4: it Is god directing?

1634
01:46:27,820 --> 01:46:31,139
Speaker 3: It, yeah it is. Troubling my only answer to that is,

1635
01:46:31,180 --> 01:46:34,620
Speaker 3: This Either god didn't direct it and whoever wrote it

1636
01:46:34,660 --> 01:46:37,660
Speaker 3: got it, wrong because this is Post, torah And i'm

1637
01:46:37,700 --> 01:46:41,139
Speaker 3: okay with. That The torah is WHERE i have my

1638
01:46:41,780 --> 01:46:46,099
Speaker 3: real bright. Line Or god did in fact tell them

1639
01:46:46,140 --> 01:46:47,979
Speaker 3: to do it And god knew what he was. Doing.

1640
01:46:48,580 --> 01:46:52,740
Speaker 3: See the thing that doesn't bother me is. This there

1641
01:46:52,780 --> 01:46:56,380
Speaker 3: is not a hint in Any jewish scripture that you

1642
01:46:56,620 --> 01:46:57,860
Speaker 3: kill the non jew.

1643
01:46:59,460 --> 01:47:03,700
Speaker 4: Never there's no hint of. It there were specific moments

1644
01:47:03,780 --> 01:47:07,700
Speaker 4: in the conquering Of canaan where there were was. Killing

1645
01:47:08,260 --> 01:47:11,780
Speaker 4: that was. It it was a one time. Event god

1646
01:47:11,860 --> 01:47:15,059
Speaker 4: had his. Reasons if Indeed god was, involved AND i

1647
01:47:15,059 --> 01:47:17,700
Speaker 4: don't know what else to. Say and If god wasn't,

1648
01:47:17,700 --> 01:47:20,580
Speaker 4: involved THEN i am not going to judge people from

1649
01:47:20,740 --> 01:47:23,900
Speaker 4: three thousand years ago anymore THAN i Judge jefferson for

1650
01:47:23,979 --> 01:47:25,620
Speaker 4: having slaves two hundred years.

1651
01:47:25,620 --> 01:47:27,740
Speaker 3: Ago it's very easy to sit.

1652
01:47:27,820 --> 01:47:31,020
Speaker 4: Back ALL i know is the book that Has joshua

1653
01:47:31,059 --> 01:47:37,059
Speaker 4: in it is the book that ended slavery For. Prager

1654
01:47:37,860 --> 01:47:40,460
Speaker 4: do you think of marriage between a Practicing catholic and

1655
01:47:40,500 --> 01:47:43,099
Speaker 4: a Practicing joke can really? Work and what about raising the,

1656
01:47:43,180 --> 01:47:46,459
Speaker 4: kids which religion both it's very.

1657
01:47:46,300 --> 01:47:50,979
Speaker 3: Tough and inter religious marriage where both take their respective religion.

1658
01:47:51,059 --> 01:47:53,220
Speaker 3: SERIOUSLY i, mean we have to be.

1659
01:47:53,300 --> 01:47:58,140
Speaker 4: Honest it's not my first, recommendation given all the obstacles

1660
01:47:58,180 --> 01:48:01,340
Speaker 4: that exist in marriage to begin, with to add that as,

1661
01:48:01,380 --> 01:48:03,299
Speaker 4: well you, know.

1662
01:48:05,019 --> 01:48:09,339
Speaker 3: Can it. Work there's nothing that can't work in. Life

1663
01:48:09,380 --> 01:48:14,420
Speaker 3: people have made And americans particularly can do. It but

1664
01:48:14,700 --> 01:48:18,540
Speaker 3: it's all things being. Equal if you're dating and you

1665
01:48:18,660 --> 01:48:23,620
Speaker 3: take your religion, seriously it's best to date people who

1666
01:48:23,780 --> 01:48:27,940
Speaker 3: either are open to taking your religion seriously through conversion

1667
01:48:28,580 --> 01:48:29,299
Speaker 3: or already.

1668
01:48:29,420 --> 01:48:34,979
Speaker 4: Do can you remember your By mets the? Passage, okay

1669
01:48:35,059 --> 01:48:41,540
Speaker 4: let me explain something in Traditional jewish, life which of

1670
01:48:41,580 --> 01:48:44,219
Speaker 4: course mine. Was you have no.

1671
01:48:44,340 --> 01:48:47,059
Speaker 3: Idea you know What indian kids would have to go

1672
01:48:47,140 --> 01:48:50,099
Speaker 3: through torture to show they were a. Man that's What

1673
01:48:50,340 --> 01:48:55,019
Speaker 3: orthodox kids. Do we go through mental. TORTURE i had.

1674
01:48:55,580 --> 01:48:58,219
Speaker 3: To every kid has to read from The.

1675
01:48:58,260 --> 01:49:00,340
Speaker 4: Torah it's a long way of saying, no isn't it

1676
01:49:00,580 --> 01:49:03,059
Speaker 4: go ahead to saying, no it wasn't it yet it was,

1677
01:49:03,300 --> 01:49:05,660
Speaker 4: yes no. QUESTION i just wanted if you could remember,

1678
01:49:05,660 --> 01:49:07,939
Speaker 4: it but go, AHEAD i remember it. Well it was

1679
01:49:08,019 --> 01:49:12,780
Speaker 4: actually killing all the people you know in in in

1680
01:49:12,820 --> 01:49:15,380
Speaker 4: The Holy. Land it was a terribly but he is

1681
01:49:15,420 --> 01:49:18,700
Speaker 4: the end of. Numbers see we read a portion from The.

1682
01:49:18,740 --> 01:49:21,300
Speaker 4: Torah each sabbath has a portion of The.

1683
01:49:21,340 --> 01:49:27,419
Speaker 3: Torah my LUCK i had a sabbath my Bar mitzer

1684
01:49:27,460 --> 01:49:32,420
Speaker 3: fell for a sabbath reading of two, portions the longest

1685
01:49:32,660 --> 01:49:36,780
Speaker 3: in The. Torah so it was two hundred and forty

1686
01:49:36,900 --> 01:49:39,820
Speaker 3: eight verses THAT i had to essentially.

1687
01:49:39,860 --> 01:49:44,539
Speaker 4: Memorize is that my? Luck bat sheer crappy luck.

1688
01:49:45,900 --> 01:49:48,780
Speaker 3: Told my. WIFE i kept thinking If i'd have been

1689
01:49:48,780 --> 01:49:52,139
Speaker 3: born five days, LATER i would have had one third the.

1690
01:49:52,260 --> 01:49:57,179
Speaker 3: Lane but it made me a better.

1691
01:49:57,260 --> 01:50:01,139
Speaker 4: Man did you just memory or did you have to study?

1692
01:50:01,180 --> 01:50:01,300
Speaker 3: It?

1693
01:50:01,340 --> 01:50:02,380
Speaker 4: Is have you thought about?

1694
01:50:02,420 --> 01:50:05,099
Speaker 3: It? No, no it was just you really just studied

1695
01:50:05,099 --> 01:50:06,340
Speaker 3: it in order to chant it.

1696
01:50:06,340 --> 01:50:08,460
Speaker 4: Properly two, more we're running low here by the, way

1697
01:50:09,580 --> 01:50:11,019
Speaker 4: is the is Rex kern?

1698
01:50:11,099 --> 01:50:11,419
Speaker 3: Really?

1699
01:50:11,460 --> 01:50:17,700
Speaker 4: Here is Rex kurrn? Here he had the, lead he was,

1700
01:50:17,740 --> 01:50:20,580
Speaker 4: here he. LEFT i didn't get to meet Rex. Kerrn,

1701
01:50:21,620 --> 01:50:27,939
Speaker 4: Oh god is not just the sc people stayed and

1702
01:50:27,979 --> 01:50:30,700
Speaker 4: the championship quarterback from the nineteen sixtye To Ohio state

1703
01:50:30,740 --> 01:50:35,340
Speaker 4: Back guy's. Left that just kills. ME i prayed he would.

1704
01:50:35,420 --> 01:50:43,219
Speaker 4: Leave should religion change as society, changes for, Example catholic

1705
01:50:43,260 --> 01:50:46,299
Speaker 4: services move From Latin. English how does tradition dictate these

1706
01:50:46,340 --> 01:50:49,860
Speaker 4: aspects for Example Hasidic jews and their manner of, Dress amish.

1707
01:50:49,939 --> 01:50:53,339
Speaker 4: Lifestyles AND i think the implication here is some people

1708
01:50:53,340 --> 01:50:55,460
Speaker 4: are just stuck on tradition and they're not moving with the.

1709
01:50:55,500 --> 01:51:01,339
Speaker 3: Society, well it depends what you're. CHANGING i don't believe garb.

1710
01:51:01,700 --> 01:51:10,820
Speaker 3: Matters if it. Depends if it, matters here's one to really. Upset.

1711
01:51:10,939 --> 01:51:12,620
Speaker 3: NO i don't think it upset most of, you but

1712
01:51:13,700 --> 01:51:17,860
Speaker 3: it even upsets. ME i can't think of a very

1713
01:51:18,140 --> 01:51:22,339
Speaker 3: rational reason not to have ordained women in the various

1714
01:51:23,740 --> 01:51:28,019
Speaker 3: Protestant there was a very good reason In, catholicism or

1715
01:51:28,019 --> 01:51:31,700
Speaker 3: at least there's a valid theological, Reason BUT i can't

1716
01:51:31,740 --> 01:51:37,500
Speaker 3: think of one In judaism or In. Protestantism and YET

1717
01:51:38,059 --> 01:51:44,019
Speaker 3: i CAN'T i argue that the ordination of women has

1718
01:51:44,099 --> 01:51:47,780
Speaker 3: and we now have a generation to. Reflect IF i

1719
01:51:47,860 --> 01:51:51,820
Speaker 3: had to give a cost benefit, ANALYSIS i think the

1720
01:51:51,860 --> 01:51:57,100
Speaker 3: costs were greater than the. Benefits the synagogues.

1721
01:51:56,500 --> 01:52:01,700
Speaker 4: And the churches that have been most gung ho for

1722
01:52:01,900 --> 01:52:04,540
Speaker 4: female clergy have fewer.

1723
01:52:04,620 --> 01:52:09,179
Speaker 3: Members and you'll say you could call it. Sexist you

1724
01:52:09,220 --> 01:52:12,580
Speaker 3: can call it anything you. Like calling names doesn't deal with.

1725
01:52:12,700 --> 01:52:16,660
Speaker 3: REALITY i think that most men and most women who

1726
01:52:16,660 --> 01:52:20,500
Speaker 3: are serious about religion would prefer a male clergy. Person

1727
01:52:21,380 --> 01:52:23,820
Speaker 3: can women do the? Job of course women can do the.

1728
01:52:23,900 --> 01:52:27,780
Speaker 3: Job it's a non. Issue well why can't women master

1729
01:52:27,939 --> 01:52:32,300
Speaker 3: the biblical scriptures and? Teach of course they. Can there

1730
01:52:32,340 --> 01:52:35,939
Speaker 3: are many great roles for women in. Religiosity BUT i

1731
01:52:36,019 --> 01:52:43,620
Speaker 3: do believe that in the final, analysis it was not

1732
01:52:44,059 --> 01:52:48,460
Speaker 3: a Wise it was an understandable and maybe even. Necessary

1733
01:52:48,740 --> 01:52:53,740
Speaker 3: But i'm not sure beneficial CHANGE i predicted BECAUSE i

1734
01:52:53,860 --> 01:52:58,540
Speaker 3: learned this From George, GILDER i give him. Credit when

1735
01:52:58,660 --> 01:53:05,059
Speaker 3: men don't have a specific, role they opt. Out now

1736
01:53:05,340 --> 01:53:09,059
Speaker 3: what a feminists, say men have fragile. Egos so instead

1737
01:53:09,059 --> 01:53:11,379
Speaker 3: of dealing with the, issue we don't call women names

1738
01:53:12,260 --> 01:53:17,780
Speaker 3: because of whatever idiosyncratic aspect of their personality, exists but we.

1739
01:53:17,900 --> 01:53:19,500
Speaker 3: Do it doesn't matter to. ME i don't care what

1740
01:53:19,540 --> 01:53:24,700
Speaker 3: they call. Me but in fact that's the, Case and

1741
01:53:25,019 --> 01:53:30,139
Speaker 3: in Reform judaism and in Conservative, judaism more and more

1742
01:53:30,260 --> 01:53:34,780
Speaker 3: of the classes of ordaining canters and rabbis are, women

1743
01:53:36,860 --> 01:53:41,540
Speaker 3: and men have simply opted. Out BUT i believe that

1744
01:53:41,820 --> 01:53:47,700
Speaker 3: boys more need a male clerical, model then girls need

1745
01:53:47,740 --> 01:53:50,300
Speaker 3: a female clerical model to keep them.

1746
01:53:50,340 --> 01:53:59,179
Speaker 4: Religious and my last question ending on. Time, obviously suffering

1747
01:53:59,220 --> 01:54:01,299
Speaker 4: is central to a lot of. Theology my Friend David

1748
01:54:01,300 --> 01:54:05,220
Speaker 4: Allen white, says it's the whole essence of Understanding catholicism In.

1749
01:54:05,340 --> 01:54:08,660
Speaker 4: Christianity and you've suffered when you gave up cigars that.

1750
01:54:09,059 --> 01:54:13,179
Speaker 4: Hurt and, wait, wait do you all know that it's a,

1751
01:54:13,260 --> 01:54:16,059
Speaker 4: joke because if you, don't if you don't all know

1752
01:54:16,099 --> 01:54:21,820
Speaker 4: it's a. Joke he just. Sinned and not only did

1753
01:54:21,820 --> 01:54:24,820
Speaker 4: he just, sin but even if he, REPENTS i will

1754
01:54:24,820 --> 01:54:31,980
Speaker 4: not forgive. Him i'd like talking a little. Bit you

1755
01:54:32,020 --> 01:54:35,060
Speaker 4: had lost the, mic see, that AND i didn't do.

1756
01:54:35,140 --> 01:54:35,940
Speaker 3: THAT i didn't do.

1757
01:54:36,020 --> 01:54:40,980
Speaker 4: That it's very. Impressive it's like, That, hey like you

1758
01:54:41,060 --> 01:54:43,220
Speaker 4: talk a little bit about whether or not suffering brings

1759
01:54:43,260 --> 01:54:45,980
Speaker 4: people closer To? God and if, so is that in

1760
01:54:46,060 --> 01:54:47,060
Speaker 4: fact part Of god's?

1761
01:54:47,100 --> 01:54:48,980
Speaker 3: Plan and on that we're.

1762
01:54:48,980 --> 01:54:51,620
Speaker 4: Closing so wrap it all. Up thanks for all of

1763
01:54:51,660 --> 01:54:54,380
Speaker 4: you for, coming For, carola for putting it. On it's

1764
01:54:54,380 --> 01:54:57,780
Speaker 4: always wonderful to be with my Pal. Dennis take it,

1765
01:54:57,780 --> 01:55:03,220
Speaker 4: away Mister. Praig there is no answer to, That And

1766
01:55:03,260 --> 01:55:03,780
Speaker 4: i'll tell you.

1767
01:55:03,820 --> 01:55:09,420
Speaker 3: Why the question is identical or similar not identical. Too

1768
01:55:10,140 --> 01:55:14,980
Speaker 3: does suffering make people kinder or? Meaner and the answer

1769
01:55:15,020 --> 01:55:19,980
Speaker 3: is entirely. Individual there are people who are better people after,

1770
01:55:20,020 --> 01:55:23,060
Speaker 3: suffering and there are people who are. Worse there are

1771
01:55:23,140 --> 01:55:26,499
Speaker 3: groups that get, meaner there are groups that get. Kinder

1772
01:55:27,300 --> 01:55:32,900
Speaker 3: we suffered and so we're. Victims screw. You that's not,

1773
01:55:33,020 --> 01:55:37,180
Speaker 3: uncommon and individuals will say the same, THING i, suffered

1774
01:55:38,020 --> 01:55:42,060
Speaker 3: so should everybody. Else Or i've suffered AND i don't

1775
01:55:42,100 --> 01:55:47,220
Speaker 3: want anybody else to. Suffer both are common, reactions and

1776
01:55:47,300 --> 01:55:52,100
Speaker 3: the same with The god. ISSUE i feel about getting

1777
01:55:52,180 --> 01:55:59,340
Speaker 3: close To god that some of us are blessed with it,

1778
01:55:59,380 --> 01:56:04,620
Speaker 3: Innately i'm, not AND i have had to work on.

1779
01:56:04,660 --> 01:56:08,540
Speaker 3: It not. Belief i've not had to work on. Belief

1780
01:56:08,780 --> 01:56:14,820
Speaker 3: i've had to work on closeness and. OTHERS i have

1781
01:56:14,940 --> 01:56:19,620
Speaker 3: met people who are Just god centered, emotionally they walk

1782
01:56:19,700 --> 01:56:24,620
Speaker 3: With god every relationship To. GOD i basically my view

1783
01:56:24,740 --> 01:56:27,180
Speaker 3: IS i know What god wants me to, do AND

1784
01:56:27,220 --> 01:56:30,500
Speaker 3: i want to devote my life to doing. IT i

1785
01:56:30,540 --> 01:56:33,820
Speaker 3: get a great deal of satisfaction from.

1786
01:56:33,820 --> 01:56:38,700
Speaker 4: THAT i can't write a book Titled god Is my

1787
01:56:38,820 --> 01:56:43,740
Speaker 4: Co pilot or walking with You, god as there is

1788
01:56:43,780 --> 01:56:44,860
Speaker 4: a much walking with You.

1789
01:56:44,980 --> 01:56:49,460
Speaker 3: JESUS i envy people who, can but that's not. Me

1790
01:56:50,700 --> 01:56:54,820
Speaker 3: But i'll tell you one advantage of this is THAT,

1791
01:56:55,060 --> 01:57:00,020
Speaker 3: i Because i'm so rational and such a, BELIEVER i

1792
01:57:00,060 --> 01:57:01,780
Speaker 3: have been able to bring a lot of people to

1793
01:57:01,860 --> 01:57:06,060
Speaker 3: faith because of my rationality and not my reliance on

1794
01:57:06,140 --> 01:57:11,620
Speaker 3: emotion and just faith. Proclamations SO i think that Maybe

1795
01:57:11,660 --> 01:57:15,780
Speaker 3: god wanted it that, Way, prager AND i really do view.

1796
01:57:15,820 --> 01:57:19,860
Speaker 3: Myself that's why IF i may be really open and

1797
01:57:20,660 --> 01:57:26,020
Speaker 3: almost sounds, silly maybe that some of, you there is

1798
01:57:26,340 --> 01:57:29,860
Speaker 3: no DANGER i will ever get a swelled. Head there.

1799
01:57:29,900 --> 01:57:32,540
Speaker 4: ISN'T i can tell you that AS i know that

1800
01:57:32,620 --> 01:57:36,700
Speaker 4: two and two is, FOUR i never got. One you know,

1801
01:57:36,820 --> 01:57:40,020
Speaker 4: ME i don't have a swelled. Head it's not a.

1802
01:57:40,100 --> 01:57:43,540
Speaker 4: Danger it's not go sound great OR i don't even

1803
01:57:43,540 --> 01:57:46,980
Speaker 4: have to work on. It and the reason and that's

1804
01:57:46,980 --> 01:57:50,380
Speaker 4: WHY i don't take credit for. IT i just KNOW

1805
01:57:50,660 --> 01:57:53,820
Speaker 4: i am another, mortal no better than The cambodian taxi.

1806
01:57:53,980 --> 01:57:58,060
Speaker 4: Driver i'm unbelievably lucky THAT i got an exibility THAT

1807
01:57:58,100 --> 01:57:58,980
Speaker 4: i got born In.

1808
01:57:59,060 --> 01:58:03,580
Speaker 3: AMERICA a whole host of. Things that's. It so What

1809
01:58:03,660 --> 01:58:06,220
Speaker 3: i'm here to do Is god's. Work that's HOW i

1810
01:58:06,340 --> 01:58:09,260
Speaker 3: view every single. Day WHEN i go on the, radio

1811
01:58:09,340 --> 01:58:13,020
Speaker 3: and BEFORE i give a, LECTURE i usually will remember to, Say,

1812
01:58:13,460 --> 01:58:16,500
Speaker 3: god just make SURE i do what you want me to.

1813
01:58:16,540 --> 01:58:20,660
Speaker 3: Do that's. IT i don't ask for, health DON'T i

1814
01:58:20,660 --> 01:58:23,700
Speaker 3: don't ask for. ANYTHING i just want to make SURE

1815
01:58:23,940 --> 01:58:24,700
Speaker 3: i can do What he.

1816
01:58:24,740 --> 01:58:27,900
Speaker 4: Does we all, die AND i want to have lived a,

1817
01:58:27,940 --> 01:58:30,620
Speaker 4: life hopefully that he would.

1818
01:58:30,420 --> 01:58:34,140
Speaker 3: Be proud of me when he greets, me AND i

1819
01:58:34,300 --> 01:58:36,900
Speaker 3: believe that he.

1820
01:58:36,980 --> 01:58:40,260
Speaker 4: Would so let me end by saying that you are

1821
01:58:40,260 --> 01:58:42,860
Speaker 4: one of the gifts in my, life and thank you for.

1822
01:58:42,940 --> 01:58:44,540
Speaker 4: Today thank you. All that's.

1823
01:58:44,620 --> 01:58:45,260
Speaker 3: Mutual good.

1824
01:58:45,340 --> 01:58:54,940
Speaker 1: Night this has been timeless wisdom With Dennis. Prager Visit

1825
01:58:54,980 --> 01:58:58,820
Speaker 1: dennisprager dot com for thousands of hours Of dennis's, lectures

1826
01:58:58,860 --> 01:59:03,379
Speaker 1: courses in classic radio, programs and to Purchase Dennis Prager's Rational.

1827
01:59:03,500 --> 01:59:07,500
Speaker 3: Bibles