1 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:07,040 Speaker 1: Life audio. I have four kids and they're all falling 2 00:00:07,080 --> 00:00:10,280 Speaker 1: apart because I look at it, it doesn't look like 3 00:00:10,400 --> 00:00:13,400 Speaker 1: I'm managing my family very well, but having all the 4 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:16,400 Speaker 1: questions of okay, am I fit for ministry? When I 5 00:00:16,880 --> 00:00:19,720 Speaker 1: after I said this to our elders, I stood up. 6 00:00:19,760 --> 00:00:21,319 Speaker 1: I said, I'm sorry to do this to you, but 7 00:00:21,840 --> 00:00:25,080 Speaker 1: you need to decide if I'm fit, And frankly I said, 8 00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:27,600 Speaker 1: I kind of hope you just let me go because 9 00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:28,120 Speaker 1: I'm broken. 10 00:00:28,200 --> 00:00:28,400 Speaker 2: Yeah. 11 00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:31,920 Speaker 1: They came back and told me, no, we're not releasing. 12 00:00:32,280 --> 00:00:34,479 Speaker 1: We need an example of what it looks like to 13 00:00:34,600 --> 00:00:39,000 Speaker 1: walk through the valley of the shadow of death, what 14 00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:41,840 Speaker 1: it looks like to be broken and is still trust Christ. 15 00:00:42,080 --> 00:00:43,959 Speaker 1: I wish I could tell you everything's but can put 16 00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:44,920 Speaker 1: back together. It's smart. 17 00:00:46,240 --> 00:00:49,640 Speaker 2: Welcome to the Marcher Diet Podcast. Good to have everyone joining, 18 00:00:50,040 --> 00:00:53,159 Speaker 2: and for those of you that are not listening but watching, 19 00:00:53,360 --> 00:00:55,440 Speaker 2: we have a live audience today, which is super cool. 20 00:00:55,960 --> 00:01:00,200 Speaker 2: And we are at Hessel Church, which a lot of 21 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:02,240 Speaker 2: people I say is my other home church. I feel 22 00:01:02,240 --> 00:01:05,360 Speaker 2: like I'm here a lot, and I love Hassel. We 23 00:01:05,440 --> 00:01:11,000 Speaker 2: are in Sebastopool, California, Santa Rosa, California, and We've just 24 00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:13,520 Speaker 2: developed a great relationship over the years, and it's always 25 00:01:13,520 --> 00:01:15,759 Speaker 2: been fun to be here. And the reason I'm here 26 00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:20,280 Speaker 2: this weekend is for the nor Cow Men's Summit Men's Conference, 27 00:01:20,480 --> 00:01:23,000 Speaker 2: and we have men here at this conference, I think 28 00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:27,280 Speaker 2: from all over kind of northern California, correct, But while 29 00:01:27,319 --> 00:01:31,360 Speaker 2: we were here, I wanted to take the opportunity and thankfully, again, thankful, 30 00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:34,759 Speaker 2: I thank the church, appreciate the church allowing this to happen. 31 00:01:35,280 --> 00:01:37,800 Speaker 2: During the conference, I have the opportunity to speak to 32 00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:42,759 Speaker 2: Pastor Rich Condall, and Rich has We'll talk about Rich's 33 00:01:42,760 --> 00:01:44,520 Speaker 2: story here in a while, but I met Rich probably 34 00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:49,320 Speaker 2: five years ago, and we've talked about leadership. We've talked 35 00:01:49,360 --> 00:01:52,760 Speaker 2: about team building a lot. We've talked about church life 36 00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:55,920 Speaker 2: and Christian life and family life and the challenges that 37 00:01:55,960 --> 00:01:57,600 Speaker 2: come from all of that, and it's been such a 38 00:01:57,600 --> 00:02:00,840 Speaker 2: blessing to me over the years. Spending time with you 39 00:02:01,080 --> 00:02:03,080 Speaker 2: is always an encouragement to me. So thank you for 40 00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:05,600 Speaker 2: taking the time on a Saturday to do this. 41 00:02:06,400 --> 00:02:09,320 Speaker 1: I am grateful for you. Some of our guys from 42 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:13,320 Speaker 1: the church have been blessed by Mighty Oaks, and so 43 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:15,960 Speaker 1: it's kind of fun. And then your ministry here has 44 00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:18,560 Speaker 1: been just remarkable and we love you very much. 45 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:20,679 Speaker 2: And then it's awesome to be with you guys. My 46 00:02:21,240 --> 00:02:23,639 Speaker 2: daughter is getting married next week. My wife wanted to 47 00:02:23,680 --> 00:02:25,760 Speaker 2: come so badly just to spend the weekend and hang out, 48 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:29,640 Speaker 2: and couldn't do it. I guess because weddings are important. 49 00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:31,600 Speaker 2: I've had very little to do with it, but my 50 00:02:31,680 --> 00:02:33,480 Speaker 2: wife has had a lot to do with it. 51 00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:37,360 Speaker 1: Wait till you walk your daughter down. That's when you'll 52 00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:38,960 Speaker 1: have a lot to do with it. You'll have all 53 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:40,360 Speaker 1: these emotions. It happens. 54 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:42,079 Speaker 2: I do know. They keep texting me telling me where 55 00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:44,359 Speaker 2: to send money, so that's part. I've had a part 56 00:02:44,360 --> 00:02:44,600 Speaker 2: in that. 57 00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:47,800 Speaker 1: But lit up your wallet, buddy. There you go. 58 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:52,000 Speaker 2: Well, let's jump in and I'd like to just start. 59 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:54,359 Speaker 2: We're gonna talk about leadership and really talk about leading 60 00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:57,560 Speaker 2: through adversity and leading through difficulty and challenges, because that's 61 00:02:57,600 --> 00:03:00,519 Speaker 2: one thing we all have in common. We've been called 62 00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:02,840 Speaker 2: the lead. We just heard a great session this morning. 63 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:06,360 Speaker 2: And you know, men stand up and men lead, Men 64 00:03:06,560 --> 00:03:08,440 Speaker 2: do what they're called by God to do, and so 65 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:11,880 Speaker 2: often that's in the midst of adversity and difficulty. But 66 00:03:12,080 --> 00:03:14,120 Speaker 2: i'd let you start with your story. You're raising a 67 00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:16,760 Speaker 2: pastor's home. One of the unique things about Hessel the 68 00:03:16,880 --> 00:03:21,040 Speaker 2: church is that you and your dad have both pastored 69 00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:23,600 Speaker 2: here and over give me the period of time again, 70 00:03:23,800 --> 00:03:25,359 Speaker 2: it's close to fifty years. 71 00:03:25,400 --> 00:03:28,919 Speaker 1: Between the two of us. For seventy let me thank 72 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:30,399 Speaker 1: you for seventy two years. 73 00:03:30,440 --> 00:03:31,200 Speaker 2: It's incredible. 74 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:34,519 Speaker 1: He has tenure in my ten kind of overlapped a 75 00:03:34,560 --> 00:03:35,880 Speaker 1: little bit, but seventy two years. 76 00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:38,000 Speaker 2: So it raises a pastor's kid and you still made it, 77 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:43,200 Speaker 2: still made it. I'd love to hear about growing up here, 78 00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:47,200 Speaker 2: hear your faith story, and then how God brought you 79 00:03:47,240 --> 00:03:50,200 Speaker 2: from being a kid in the church to leading the church. 80 00:03:50,960 --> 00:03:54,080 Speaker 1: Yeah. I was really blessed. My parents were pretty awesome, 81 00:03:54,120 --> 00:03:57,080 Speaker 1: and I didn't I even told you earlier that I 82 00:03:57,120 --> 00:04:02,280 Speaker 1: never regretted being a pastor's kid. I enjoyed it. My 83 00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:06,080 Speaker 1: dad was serious about his faith. When we were studying 84 00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:08,800 Speaker 1: the Bible and doing devotions, we had devotions every single day. 85 00:04:09,080 --> 00:04:11,520 Speaker 1: It was like, don't mess around, but it was like 86 00:04:12,480 --> 00:04:15,440 Speaker 1: he was serious. But when it came time to have fun, 87 00:04:15,840 --> 00:04:19,960 Speaker 1: nobody had more fun than my dad had. Oh my goodness, 88 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:23,960 Speaker 1: it was phenomenal. I mean wrestling matches and just involved 89 00:04:23,960 --> 00:04:27,200 Speaker 1: in everything, and it was just a great life. And 90 00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:30,640 Speaker 1: I trusted Christ. When I was five years old, my 91 00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:33,120 Speaker 1: mom led me into faith in Christ. It was real simple. 92 00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:34,800 Speaker 1: She told me I was a sinner. I had no 93 00:04:34,839 --> 00:04:37,640 Speaker 1: problem believing that because I had three sisters and I 94 00:04:37,760 --> 00:04:38,880 Speaker 1: love to terrorize him. 95 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:40,320 Speaker 2: And when your mom says it. 96 00:04:40,360 --> 00:04:44,839 Speaker 1: Yeah, what he can say. So, you know, profess faith 97 00:04:44,880 --> 00:04:48,360 Speaker 1: in Christ, and I know I was saved in that moment. 98 00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:52,840 Speaker 1: Put all my faith in Jesus. In high school, it 99 00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:58,720 Speaker 1: really became my own. I was a good athlete. I 100 00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:03,800 Speaker 1: remember playing basketball and being in the paper. My picture 101 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:06,120 Speaker 1: was in the paper five different times during the course 102 00:05:06,160 --> 00:05:09,679 Speaker 1: of a week, which generates a great deal of pride 103 00:05:09,839 --> 00:05:13,040 Speaker 1: in us. It's just it's like, wow, you know, I'm 104 00:05:13,080 --> 00:05:19,560 Speaker 1: pretty special, and so I enjoyed that that attention. I 105 00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:24,240 Speaker 1: guess I got. I broke and dislocated my ankle so 106 00:05:24,279 --> 00:05:26,840 Speaker 1: that at one point my ank my bottom of my 107 00:05:26,880 --> 00:05:30,560 Speaker 1: foot was facing straight up at me. And in that moment, 108 00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:33,239 Speaker 1: the doctors as they took me to the hospital, of course, 109 00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:36,160 Speaker 1: and said you're done playing basketball. You're never going to 110 00:05:36,200 --> 00:05:39,080 Speaker 1: play ball again. And I realized that something that I 111 00:05:39,080 --> 00:05:42,599 Speaker 1: had made my God had been taken from me, and 112 00:05:42,680 --> 00:05:44,480 Speaker 1: it was in that moment of brokenness that I kind 113 00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:47,760 Speaker 1: of said, Okay, you know, everything else in life can 114 00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:51,960 Speaker 1: be taken from me, only Christ cannot. And that's really 115 00:05:52,040 --> 00:05:54,679 Speaker 1: when I rededicated and I said I'm all in. People 116 00:05:54,680 --> 00:05:56,039 Speaker 1: had said, hey, you're going to be a pastor like 117 00:05:56,040 --> 00:05:58,000 Speaker 1: your dad, and I said, yeah, that's his gig, it's 118 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:00,960 Speaker 1: not mine. But that's that's really when God got a 119 00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:03,160 Speaker 1: hold of my life and I he started pulling me 120 00:06:03,279 --> 00:06:04,440 Speaker 1: toward the ministry. 121 00:06:04,520 --> 00:06:08,400 Speaker 2: That's awesome. My wife and I were talking about kind 122 00:06:08,400 --> 00:06:11,280 Speaker 2: of that a little bit the other day, same thing. 123 00:06:11,279 --> 00:06:14,320 Speaker 2: I was raising a pastor's home. I love my dad. 124 00:06:14,360 --> 00:06:16,400 Speaker 2: I was thankful for my dad, thankful the testimony of 125 00:06:16,440 --> 00:06:18,800 Speaker 2: my parents, but did not want to be in ministry 126 00:06:18,839 --> 00:06:21,159 Speaker 2: at all. And I remember going to a youth conference 127 00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:23,479 Speaker 2: back in the olden days where we had youth conferences 128 00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:25,440 Speaker 2: every month. We'd go with a bunch of other teenagers, 129 00:06:25,839 --> 00:06:28,120 Speaker 2: and a pastor said, come forward if you would be 130 00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:31,800 Speaker 2: willing to go into ministry. And for me, there was 131 00:06:31,839 --> 00:06:34,160 Speaker 2: not like I didn't feel a call to ministry, but 132 00:06:34,200 --> 00:06:36,120 Speaker 2: there was that moment. I remember it today and my 133 00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:39,320 Speaker 2: wife and I were talking about this. Man. I remember 134 00:06:39,360 --> 00:06:41,599 Speaker 2: that moment where I just said, well, I don't think 135 00:06:41,640 --> 00:06:44,200 Speaker 2: that's what God's calling me to, but I am willing 136 00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:46,599 Speaker 2: if that's what he wants. And you have to have 137 00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:49,600 Speaker 2: that moment where you make a decision that got whatever 138 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:52,520 Speaker 2: it is you want from me, even down the road, 139 00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:53,359 Speaker 2: that's where I want to end. 140 00:06:53,640 --> 00:06:55,920 Speaker 1: Sometimes God acts on that and pulls you into the ministry, 141 00:06:55,960 --> 00:06:58,560 Speaker 1: and other times it's just he wants your heart, that's 142 00:06:58,600 --> 00:07:00,640 Speaker 1: what wants more than the ministry. 143 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:05,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right, that's good. I'm always curious when someone's 144 00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:07,880 Speaker 2: raised in a ministry home and they go into ministry 145 00:07:08,040 --> 00:07:11,200 Speaker 2: having seen, you know, a lot of the difficulty that 146 00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:14,160 Speaker 2: goes along with being a pastor, and people aren't always kind, 147 00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:16,320 Speaker 2: and there's a lot of challenges related to that. So 148 00:07:16,320 --> 00:07:18,880 Speaker 2: he's watch that and then you make the decision at 149 00:07:18,880 --> 00:07:22,000 Speaker 2: some point to follow the Lord into ministry. I'm always curious, 150 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:23,960 Speaker 2: what are some of the things that your mom and 151 00:07:24,040 --> 00:07:30,560 Speaker 2: dad did that encouraged you, even through the challenges of 152 00:07:31,760 --> 00:07:35,720 Speaker 2: ministry life. Encourage you to say I could do that, 153 00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:37,680 Speaker 2: or if God called me into that or led me 154 00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:39,400 Speaker 2: into that, I'd be willing to do that. And I 155 00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:41,600 Speaker 2: think the point here is that all of us have 156 00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:44,880 Speaker 2: kids that we want to influence, so that if God 157 00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:48,280 Speaker 2: called to wherever, they'd say, I'm willing to go. 158 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:51,400 Speaker 1: It's a great question. I don't know if anybody's ever 159 00:07:51,440 --> 00:07:55,720 Speaker 1: asked me that question. I think what my parents modeled 160 00:07:55,880 --> 00:08:01,320 Speaker 1: was servanthood and humility. I think that's the key, because 161 00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:04,800 Speaker 1: it was never about the accolades that you're going to 162 00:08:04,840 --> 00:08:06,840 Speaker 1: get from other people, because many times you're not going 163 00:08:06,880 --> 00:08:10,640 Speaker 1: to get the applause, you may even get disdained. But 164 00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:14,240 Speaker 1: there's a higher calling and it is to serve Jesus 165 00:08:14,480 --> 00:08:17,200 Speaker 1: and there's nothing better. And they lived that out and 166 00:08:17,240 --> 00:08:22,360 Speaker 1: there was joy in that expression, and honestly, I wanted 167 00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:24,480 Speaker 1: some of that same joy. I mean there was they 168 00:08:24,520 --> 00:08:28,880 Speaker 1: had this perspective. It was not always easy, but there 169 00:08:28,920 --> 00:08:31,040 Speaker 1: was something bigger and it was like, at the end 170 00:08:31,040 --> 00:08:32,960 Speaker 1: of the day, man, you get to put a smile 171 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:37,120 Speaker 1: on Jesus's face, and if you can do that, yeah, 172 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:39,199 Speaker 1: you're you just won the lottery. 173 00:08:39,360 --> 00:08:40,120 Speaker 2: Yeah it's good. 174 00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:42,280 Speaker 1: So that would have been that's good. 175 00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:45,960 Speaker 2: I think too, of ministry parents that are consistent at 176 00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:49,280 Speaker 2: home with the things that they say, not at home. 177 00:08:49,480 --> 00:08:52,800 Speaker 1: Without a doubt. Yeah, the integrity. I mean, you know, 178 00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:55,440 Speaker 1: that's what we do it at the home. Yeah, I 179 00:08:55,559 --> 00:08:59,560 Speaker 1: raised my kids as well. We can undo all the 180 00:08:59,559 --> 00:09:02,800 Speaker 1: good that church may be doing. If there's not consistency 181 00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:04,760 Speaker 1: and authenticity, that's. 182 00:09:04,559 --> 00:09:08,360 Speaker 2: Good, that's good. Let's let's go from there. I'd like 183 00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:10,079 Speaker 2: to spend more time there, but let's let's go from 184 00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:15,280 Speaker 2: there and talk about leadership. So if you had to say, 185 00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:18,959 Speaker 2: this is where I learned to lead, Yeah, what would 186 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:21,000 Speaker 2: that that genesis or that catalyst be for you? 187 00:09:21,400 --> 00:09:24,640 Speaker 1: I learned it on a basketball court. It's really ironic 188 00:09:24,679 --> 00:09:29,000 Speaker 1: because I took doctoral level classes about leadership and was 189 00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:31,679 Speaker 1: looking forward to more leadership stuff, and I actually I 190 00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:34,520 Speaker 1: learned more. And you're coming from the military. It's the 191 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:38,320 Speaker 1: same thing. There's something about being on a basketball court 192 00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:40,559 Speaker 1: and you have one ball and everybody gets has to 193 00:09:40,559 --> 00:09:44,480 Speaker 1: touch the ball, and the good teams don't have just 194 00:09:44,520 --> 00:09:47,520 Speaker 1: one guy. How old hug in the ball. I think 195 00:09:47,559 --> 00:09:49,559 Speaker 1: in all the mins, summits and all the conferences that 196 00:09:49,600 --> 00:09:51,120 Speaker 1: we've had here, this is the first time I've been 197 00:09:51,160 --> 00:09:54,320 Speaker 1: on the stage, and it's because we don't need me 198 00:09:54,400 --> 00:09:57,839 Speaker 1: on the stage. We have other guys. Ben Steele has 199 00:09:57,840 --> 00:10:00,680 Speaker 1: been a part of it, but other Julian's up here today. 200 00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:04,160 Speaker 1: We got guys, And I think that's part of good leadership, 201 00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:06,880 Speaker 1: isn't realizing you don't have to have the ball all 202 00:10:06,920 --> 00:10:08,280 Speaker 1: the time. I learned that on basketball. 203 00:10:08,520 --> 00:10:11,720 Speaker 2: Can I stop you right there? So I've been here 204 00:10:11,760 --> 00:10:13,400 Speaker 2: a number of times. My wife has come with me. 205 00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:14,800 Speaker 2: We've done a marriage event here. 206 00:10:14,960 --> 00:10:15,360 Speaker 1: Yeah. 207 00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:17,520 Speaker 2: You know. One of the biggest takeaways from that weekend 208 00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:19,959 Speaker 2: when my wife was with me all weekend here this 209 00:10:20,080 --> 00:10:21,800 Speaker 2: church loves the church, loves the people. One of her 210 00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:25,280 Speaker 2: biggest takeaways and she brings it up regularly, is Pastor 211 00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:29,360 Speaker 2: Rich never came up and said anything. Because when you're 212 00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:33,200 Speaker 2: around church a lot, the lead pastorm there's nothing wrong 213 00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:35,920 Speaker 2: with the lead pastor being on the platform, but that's 214 00:10:35,960 --> 00:10:40,200 Speaker 2: typically it's him. And then people support and the way 215 00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:43,880 Speaker 2: that you modeled that team. I've got a team. I 216 00:10:43,920 --> 00:10:47,359 Speaker 2: support the team. I'm here, i'm present, i'm around, I'm supporting. 217 00:10:48,840 --> 00:10:50,240 Speaker 2: But I have a team and I trust them. That 218 00:10:50,240 --> 00:10:52,360 Speaker 2: made such an impression on her. And it's funny because 219 00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:55,600 Speaker 2: you say that, and I was like, yeah, that's exactly right. 220 00:10:55,640 --> 00:10:58,120 Speaker 2: You've got a strong team. Let the team lead. 221 00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:02,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, on the basketball court. And then the second thing 222 00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:04,760 Speaker 1: I would have You know, everybody's got strengths and weaknesses, 223 00:11:04,920 --> 00:11:08,480 Speaker 1: and you can do the same thing with military, but man, 224 00:11:08,559 --> 00:11:11,760 Speaker 1: you get the guys who are some guys. We had 225 00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:14,599 Speaker 1: this one guy. He was phenomenal athlete, phenomenal. He was 226 00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:17,320 Speaker 1: an All American. The guy we won games because then 227 00:11:17,360 --> 00:11:18,720 Speaker 1: we used to just climb on his back and we 228 00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:23,160 Speaker 1: win games. He was the worst defensive player on the planet. 229 00:11:23,440 --> 00:11:26,120 Speaker 1: And the four of us who were starting, we look 230 00:11:26,200 --> 00:11:28,440 Speaker 1: at each other and we go, we got a hide weight. 231 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:32,000 Speaker 1: He's our All American. Everybody in the country. He was 232 00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:34,880 Speaker 1: voted number first team All American. He was the worst 233 00:11:34,920 --> 00:11:38,040 Speaker 1: defensive player, and so everybody on the team said, we're 234 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:40,600 Speaker 1: going to make up for it so he doesn't look bad. 235 00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:44,679 Speaker 1: And so part of that that was the leadership principle. 236 00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:47,520 Speaker 1: And sometimes we think, oh, you're really bad at this, 237 00:11:47,559 --> 00:11:49,000 Speaker 1: and we're going to call you out on what you're 238 00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:53,000 Speaker 1: bad in. Forget that, man, accentuate what where a person 239 00:11:53,120 --> 00:11:57,040 Speaker 1: is good, elevate them, let them do what they're great 240 00:11:57,080 --> 00:12:01,400 Speaker 1: atue and don't worry cover them with they're not gooding. 241 00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:04,160 Speaker 1: So a lot of it is basketball. I've taken leadership 242 00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:07,000 Speaker 1: courses as well, but I believe in the concept of team, 243 00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:08,640 Speaker 1: and I'm so grateful for the. 244 00:12:08,559 --> 00:12:13,760 Speaker 2: Basketball stuff with all of that, the education, observation, participating 245 00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:16,360 Speaker 2: in sports. What are some of the key principles that 246 00:12:16,400 --> 00:12:20,040 Speaker 2: you say when we talk about leadership, These are the 247 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:22,319 Speaker 2: principles you need to hang on onto. I think you've 248 00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:24,560 Speaker 2: heard me talk about this, but I came out of 249 00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:27,960 Speaker 2: the military with a very leadership is type A. You're 250 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:30,320 Speaker 2: the loudest guy, the guy that can point the direction. 251 00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:32,640 Speaker 2: And then I came into ministry and I was completely 252 00:12:32,640 --> 00:12:36,360 Speaker 2: lost because it was like so upside down. And then 253 00:12:36,520 --> 00:12:39,400 Speaker 2: I started to believe that even ministry leadership sometimes is 254 00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:42,960 Speaker 2: kind of what I came from, but with God attached 255 00:12:42,960 --> 00:12:44,920 Speaker 2: to it. So you're like, if God wants you to 256 00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:46,560 Speaker 2: do this, now you can't argue with me, right because 257 00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:48,439 Speaker 2: God wants you to do it. Well, both of those 258 00:12:48,440 --> 00:12:51,920 Speaker 2: are kind of manipulation. Those aren't really leadership. So what 259 00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:54,440 Speaker 2: are some core leadership principles a guy can hang on 260 00:12:54,520 --> 00:12:59,679 Speaker 2: to in his home, in ministry, life out in the world. 261 00:13:00,880 --> 00:13:02,800 Speaker 2: What fundamentally is leadership? 262 00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:07,680 Speaker 1: Well, I think especially well for me as a pastor. 263 00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:12,160 Speaker 1: I mean I love the definition as a pastor who's 264 00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:16,959 Speaker 1: equipping the saints for the work of ministry. So in 265 00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:19,760 Speaker 1: my leadership, a core principle for me is to only 266 00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:26,320 Speaker 1: do what only I can do. There's times that I 267 00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:28,600 Speaker 1: need to be up on this stage. And we just 268 00:13:28,679 --> 00:13:30,520 Speaker 1: had to deal with a really tough thing in our church. 269 00:13:30,559 --> 00:13:34,839 Speaker 1: We had one of our pastors who committed adultery. He 270 00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:40,400 Speaker 1: broke our hearts, and I had to be here. That's 271 00:13:40,440 --> 00:13:42,520 Speaker 1: not a job I could give away to somebody else. 272 00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:45,120 Speaker 1: I needed to shepherd our church family through it and 273 00:13:45,240 --> 00:13:47,720 Speaker 1: tell them that we still love the guy. It's the 274 00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:50,240 Speaker 1: first time in all the years here that we'd had 275 00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:53,120 Speaker 1: something like that happen. And there's times that you have 276 00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:56,839 Speaker 1: to lead, but there's other times that we need to 277 00:13:57,040 --> 00:14:00,000 Speaker 1: recognize the gifting and encourage other people to use their gifts. 278 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:02,080 Speaker 1: And I think the best leaders are those that are 279 00:14:02,080 --> 00:14:06,160 Speaker 1: building up others and working themselves out of jobs. In 280 00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:10,520 Speaker 1: many ways, the servant leadership, yep, absolutely, yeah, you know what. 281 00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:13,840 Speaker 1: And here's the thing for me, when the servant leadership. 282 00:14:13,960 --> 00:14:16,520 Speaker 1: I took courses in seminary on this thing, and I 283 00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:21,000 Speaker 1: got and I can't hear even I got the servant part. 284 00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:23,120 Speaker 1: I really did. That was not the hard part for 285 00:14:23,280 --> 00:14:27,360 Speaker 1: me somehow. The leadership part I struggle with because there's 286 00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:32,640 Speaker 1: something about a leader is power and the leader is, oh, 287 00:14:32,920 --> 00:14:35,800 Speaker 1: you're up front, and I didn't want that, and so 288 00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:39,280 Speaker 1: I kind of shirked my responsibility a little bit. But 289 00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:40,920 Speaker 1: God had placed me in a role I should have 290 00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:43,720 Speaker 1: been leading. I got the servant part down. I'll just 291 00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:45,680 Speaker 1: kind of hide, you know, I'll just they put other 292 00:14:45,720 --> 00:14:48,240 Speaker 1: people in there. There's a time when the leader has 293 00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:50,960 Speaker 1: to lead, to take people from where they are to 294 00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:52,440 Speaker 1: where they need to go but don't know how to 295 00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:56,040 Speaker 1: get there, and then we help them, and that's our role. 296 00:14:56,680 --> 00:14:57,880 Speaker 2: I think that was one of the things that was 297 00:14:57,920 --> 00:15:01,000 Speaker 2: hard for me coming into ministry. It is because people 298 00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:03,320 Speaker 2: would say, well, I need to be a servant leader, 299 00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:07,960 Speaker 2: so it almost became a passive aggressive It's like, that's 300 00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:11,480 Speaker 2: why I say the manipulation because God's attacked, so I 301 00:15:11,520 --> 00:15:14,080 Speaker 2: can't be assertive. I can't be those things and be 302 00:15:14,120 --> 00:15:16,640 Speaker 2: a servant. So let me blame God or let me 303 00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:18,360 Speaker 2: make people feel bad to get them to do what 304 00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:22,200 Speaker 2: I want them to do. It's very passive aggressive spiritual leadership. 305 00:15:22,280 --> 00:15:23,960 Speaker 2: Well here's backwards. 306 00:15:24,040 --> 00:15:27,440 Speaker 1: So here's something I've learned. I use the word power 307 00:15:27,520 --> 00:15:29,800 Speaker 1: just a minute ago. A lot of times when it's 308 00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:36,120 Speaker 1: in the church Christianity, we think power is bad. It's not. 309 00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:42,960 Speaker 1: Power is bad when it's self serving. But when power 310 00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:47,080 Speaker 1: is used to protect right, when power is used to 311 00:15:47,240 --> 00:15:50,960 Speaker 1: guide man, it's you better use that power for God's 312 00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:54,080 Speaker 1: glory if it's self serving. And we see this in 313 00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:58,320 Speaker 1: pastoral work. We see people who are self serving powerful leaders, 314 00:15:58,360 --> 00:16:00,880 Speaker 1: and it's it's ugly to me, it's not attractive. I 315 00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:03,280 Speaker 1: don't I sniff that stuff out fast. I don't want 316 00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:07,320 Speaker 1: to be anywhere near it. But somebody who's godly, who's 317 00:16:07,400 --> 00:16:12,400 Speaker 1: using the power of a position, the power to protect children, 318 00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:16,760 Speaker 1: to warn and to use power to even help parents 319 00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:19,520 Speaker 1: raise their kids. Man, that's good stuff. 320 00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:23,560 Speaker 2: Good in a sense. Then it becomes leadership does stewardships. 321 00:16:23,800 --> 00:16:28,040 Speaker 2: It's stewarding the gifts, the opportunities, the resources, the personalities 322 00:16:28,440 --> 00:16:30,680 Speaker 2: that God gives to you and the position that He 323 00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:32,720 Speaker 2: puts you in as a leader, whether it's in your 324 00:16:32,760 --> 00:16:36,880 Speaker 2: home or in ministry or in your workplace. It's stewarding 325 00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:39,560 Speaker 2: that for the benefit of other people. 326 00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:43,840 Speaker 1: Absolutely, yeah, I think that's that's what ministry is. 327 00:16:44,080 --> 00:16:50,479 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's good. That's good. So then we have situations 328 00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:53,200 Speaker 2: come into our lives. You just mentioned a difficult challenge 329 00:16:53,240 --> 00:16:57,480 Speaker 2: in ministry, but let's kind of bring it to you 330 00:16:57,520 --> 00:16:58,920 Speaker 2: know where a lot of us live. You have a 331 00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:03,960 Speaker 2: financial reversal, you have man, a marriage relationship challenge of 332 00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:08,400 Speaker 2: some kind. Something goes on with your kids and raising 333 00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:12,199 Speaker 2: kids as wild. There are good days and not so 334 00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:17,679 Speaker 2: good days, and it's a challenge, right, and so you're 335 00:17:17,720 --> 00:17:23,440 Speaker 2: working through that, and sometimes those challenges are overwhelming, sometimes critical. 336 00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:28,320 Speaker 2: How do you lead well based on everything we just 337 00:17:28,320 --> 00:17:30,760 Speaker 2: talked about. It's building teams, it's building up other people. 338 00:17:30,840 --> 00:17:33,760 Speaker 2: It's seeing people's strengths. It's using what God has given 339 00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:36,199 Speaker 2: you to be a blessing to other people, stepping up 340 00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:38,159 Speaker 2: when you need to step up, using the team around 341 00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:39,720 Speaker 2: you when you need to use the team around you. 342 00:17:40,359 --> 00:17:44,040 Speaker 2: But then, man, the bottom falls out? How do you 343 00:17:44,119 --> 00:17:44,600 Speaker 2: lead well. 344 00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:50,320 Speaker 1: Through those moments? I think that you have to understand 345 00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:55,960 Speaker 1: that God uses brokenness in a very very wonderful way. 346 00:17:57,080 --> 00:18:00,439 Speaker 1: And I think for me, I was an ath. I 347 00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:04,600 Speaker 1: got a lot of attention or anything I've committed my 348 00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:07,520 Speaker 1: mind to in life to I felt like I could 349 00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:11,439 Speaker 1: over I could achieve if I wanted to be a 350 00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:13,560 Speaker 1: good student. Just put the time in the books. If 351 00:18:13,720 --> 00:18:15,760 Speaker 1: I want to be a good athlete. I went to 352 00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:19,120 Speaker 1: Biola University. I stepped on the court and the first 353 00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:20,720 Speaker 1: year they put me on the court because I had 354 00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:23,000 Speaker 1: a sense of humor. It had nothing to about my 355 00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:26,159 Speaker 1: ability to play the game. But I loved it and 356 00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:27,840 Speaker 1: I worked harder than anybody else. I was the first 357 00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:31,040 Speaker 1: guy in practice, last guy in two years. I was 358 00:18:31,040 --> 00:18:33,879 Speaker 1: a starting point guard and I was captain of the team. 359 00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:39,199 Speaker 1: So I had this in my makeup. Oh, just work hard, 360 00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:46,639 Speaker 1: and over the course of my life I had those challenges. 361 00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:50,119 Speaker 1: Just work harder than everybody else. But one of the 362 00:18:50,160 --> 00:18:53,680 Speaker 1: things that I have had to learn is that God 363 00:18:53,960 --> 00:18:59,600 Speaker 1: uses the week. So let me take you back about 364 00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:02,680 Speaker 1: six ten years ago. For those of you who don't know, 365 00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:06,000 Speaker 1: we adopted four children. We adopted two children at birth. 366 00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:09,760 Speaker 1: They're six years apart, and then we adopted two in 367 00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:15,560 Speaker 1: between those two. And so we got Rose and David 368 00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:18,760 Speaker 1: when they were three and four and Carly was two. 369 00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:22,240 Speaker 1: So they look like triplets. They were all within a 370 00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:24,000 Speaker 1: quarter of an inch of each other. They were all 371 00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:27,720 Speaker 1: within a pound of each other, and it was like crazy, 372 00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:30,040 Speaker 1: And we will go place and they go triplets and 373 00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:33,520 Speaker 1: go no, and then then they go no twins and 374 00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:36,800 Speaker 1: you go nah. They go, well how old are they? 375 00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:38,760 Speaker 1: And we go two, three, four, and they look at 376 00:19:38,840 --> 00:19:41,959 Speaker 1: us like, don't you understand birth control? I mean, what 377 00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:42,960 Speaker 1: is wrong with you? 378 00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:44,760 Speaker 2: People right by television sets? 379 00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:45,080 Speaker 1: Yeah. 380 00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:46,360 Speaker 2: Yeah. 381 00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:49,040 Speaker 1: So when we adopted and all of a sudden we 382 00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:50,520 Speaker 1: had the two and it life was pretty good. And 383 00:19:50,520 --> 00:19:52,879 Speaker 1: then we had four and man, life was crazy and 384 00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:57,240 Speaker 1: it was it was really hard. And the two that 385 00:19:57,320 --> 00:20:00,560 Speaker 1: came to us, we're just out of control, had a 386 00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:05,399 Speaker 1: reactive attachment disorder, had just lying manipulation. It's just really hard. 387 00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:07,159 Speaker 1: It took us a while. We kind of got that 388 00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:10,800 Speaker 1: under control God, with God's help, we survived it and 389 00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:14,440 Speaker 1: we're cruising along. Had a lot of fun, great memories. 390 00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:16,240 Speaker 1: I would tell you the people in their church would 391 00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:18,040 Speaker 1: look at us and say, man, what a great family. 392 00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:20,280 Speaker 1: At home. We had some challenges because these kids had 393 00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:26,400 Speaker 1: some brokenness. And then sixteen years ago, Ah Man, all 394 00:20:26,440 --> 00:20:30,560 Speaker 1: of a sudden puberty hit. And it started with our 395 00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:37,399 Speaker 1: son who was the top of his class, natural athlete, 396 00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:40,760 Speaker 1: natural leader, great stuff, and all of a sudden, he 397 00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:50,880 Speaker 1: went crazy, crazy mindset and he was angry, irritable, he 398 00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:54,080 Speaker 1: was threatening. He'd pull out knives. He'd say, somebody's going 399 00:20:54,119 --> 00:20:56,680 Speaker 1: to get hurt tonight. He'd walk around in dark clothing, 400 00:20:57,040 --> 00:21:01,840 Speaker 1: in rooms that were unlit. He would threaten us. And 401 00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:04,600 Speaker 1: when he got like this, we just kind of give 402 00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:06,760 Speaker 1: up a little bit of space. He and I used 403 00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:09,439 Speaker 1: to have devotions together. Our thing was we'd read through 404 00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:12,480 Speaker 1: a proverb every night, and we'd still do that, but man, 405 00:21:12,520 --> 00:21:15,040 Speaker 1: he was going through hard stuff and one day he 406 00:21:15,119 --> 00:21:18,000 Speaker 1: was just so mad. He left his room and walked 407 00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:21,639 Speaker 1: across the hallway into a bathroom and he's staring himself 408 00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:23,600 Speaker 1: in the mirror and then he come back. He'd do 409 00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:28,280 Speaker 1: this and I'm talking about thirty times in an hour, 410 00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:32,040 Speaker 1: and so we just gave him space. And later when 411 00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:33,800 Speaker 1: we I was having devotion and says, hey, what was 412 00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:37,479 Speaker 1: that about? And he just says, I'm trying to find David, 413 00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:42,359 Speaker 1: that's his name. I go, what do you mean, Daddy's gone. 414 00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:44,439 Speaker 1: I'm trying to find the kid I used to be. 415 00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:49,240 Speaker 1: And I was like, well, what is happening here? And 416 00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:53,880 Speaker 1: from that it got crazier and crazier. About that time, 417 00:21:54,040 --> 00:22:02,560 Speaker 1: his sister, full sister, she started running doing drugs. About 418 00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:07,200 Speaker 1: that time, our youngest we found out, had been sexually 419 00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:10,800 Speaker 1: assaulted by a group of peers for a year never 420 00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:15,800 Speaker 1: told us. And so we have three kids, teenagers, all 421 00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:22,240 Speaker 1: in crisis, and our son was getting more and more violent. 422 00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:26,520 Speaker 1: One night, he'd run away and he started banging at 423 00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:28,600 Speaker 1: the door, and my wife didn't know who he was 424 00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:31,800 Speaker 1: because and she's saying, David is at you. He's not answering. 425 00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:36,840 Speaker 1: All of a sudden, the house is shaking, and so 426 00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:39,360 Speaker 1: she calls me. I'm here at the church and she says, hey, 427 00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:41,639 Speaker 1: this is what's going on. I said, call the police. 428 00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:46,320 Speaker 1: I'm on my way. So we race home and he 429 00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:48,680 Speaker 1: had by the time I got there. I opened the 430 00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:51,480 Speaker 1: garage door. I see him running. The police officer had 431 00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:53,560 Speaker 1: just pulled up. Then he knocks a police off for 432 00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:57,320 Speaker 1: officer down, hurts injures him and takes off into the 433 00:22:57,400 --> 00:23:05,000 Speaker 1: night and I uh, I go up to see, makes 434 00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:08,520 Speaker 1: make sure my wife's okay, and the back door is 435 00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:13,800 Speaker 1: just shredded. He took an axe to the door. A 436 00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:16,000 Speaker 1: police officer tells my wife, Man, it's good thing he 437 00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:18,000 Speaker 1: didn't open this door. I'm telling you, this guy was 438 00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:22,640 Speaker 1: filled with rage. So we Eventually the next day found 439 00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:25,719 Speaker 1: out where he was Juvenile Hall. That began seven different 440 00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:27,800 Speaker 1: times to juvenile Hall. I'm the guy that always goes 441 00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:30,440 Speaker 1: to juvenile to visit other people, not my kid. But 442 00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:33,960 Speaker 1: here's what I'm doing right, and it's It was a 443 00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:39,120 Speaker 1: time for me of deep brokenness, a time of trying 444 00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:43,320 Speaker 1: to figure out I'm still pastoring the church. Here my daughters. 445 00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:47,120 Speaker 1: One of our daughters, Rose is running away, the other 446 00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:50,080 Speaker 1: one is just cutting herself up and down her arms. 447 00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:54,680 Speaker 1: And our oldest daughter at this time comes out and says, hey, 448 00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:59,200 Speaker 1: I have same sex attraction. So I have four kids 449 00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:05,640 Speaker 1: and they're all falling apart, and my wife and I 450 00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:11,320 Speaker 1: this is not how we were raised, This is not 451 00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:17,320 Speaker 1: what we could have ever imagined. But life had turned. Yeah, 452 00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:20,160 Speaker 1: Daniel was talking about in the previous session about being 453 00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:23,639 Speaker 1: in the word. That was the thing. If I was 454 00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:26,879 Speaker 1: not in the word, I would have I don't know 455 00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:30,760 Speaker 1: what I would have done. It was the sweetest time 456 00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:35,920 Speaker 1: of my day, was just being with Jesus, but having 457 00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:38,640 Speaker 1: all the questions of okay, am I fit for ministry? 458 00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:41,800 Speaker 1: I went to our board of elders in real time 459 00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:44,399 Speaker 1: and I said, look, three things I've got questions for you. 460 00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:47,880 Speaker 1: For Number one, you need to I am asking you 461 00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:51,560 Speaker 1: to please hold us accountable because we want to walk 462 00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:53,840 Speaker 1: in integrity during this time. This is what's going on, 463 00:24:56,000 --> 00:25:03,480 Speaker 1: and you hold us accountable. Number two, you need to 464 00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:07,880 Speaker 1: ask the hard questions. You need to ask if we're 465 00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:10,600 Speaker 1: abusing our kids or doing something crazy with these kids 466 00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:13,160 Speaker 1: at home, and we're the people that we just talked 467 00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:19,240 Speaker 1: about have no integrity and this is the result. And 468 00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:23,040 Speaker 1: we'll answer every question because if you have the question, 469 00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:27,640 Speaker 1: trust me, this church has the question. And R three 470 00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:30,560 Speaker 1: you need to figure out if I'm fit for ministry 471 00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:35,359 Speaker 1: because as I look at it, it doesn't look like 472 00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:40,080 Speaker 1: I'm managing my family very well. And honestly, no, this 473 00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:42,040 Speaker 1: was a time as we're dealing with all the turmoil 474 00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:44,400 Speaker 1: we could. This is the tip of the iceberg here, 475 00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:48,400 Speaker 1: but we're not sleeping. We would give it go three 476 00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:51,480 Speaker 1: days and not sleep because we're looking for our daughters 477 00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:59,720 Speaker 1: who are gone. And I never experienced brokenness at that 478 00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:05,960 Speaker 1: level before. And as a I think as a man, 479 00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:07,919 Speaker 1: we like to be strong all the time, I was 480 00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:13,080 Speaker 1: not strong. As a leader, we like to be strong, 481 00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:23,199 Speaker 1: we're not I wasn't strong. And when I after I 482 00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:26,000 Speaker 1: said this to our elders. I stood up. I said, 483 00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:28,080 Speaker 1: I'm sorry to do this to you, but you need 484 00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:31,400 Speaker 1: to decide if I'm fit. And frankly, I said, I 485 00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:34,119 Speaker 1: kind of hope you just let me go because I'm broken. 486 00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:38,199 Speaker 1: And I said, I want you to discuss this in 487 00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:42,959 Speaker 1: my absence, and so I left and I went home 488 00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:46,640 Speaker 1: told my wife Laurie, I said, man, I don't think 489 00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:50,879 Speaker 1: I can lead anymore. I'm not going to tell you 490 00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:52,840 Speaker 1: all the details. They met a couple of times in 491 00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:57,880 Speaker 1: my absence, and all right, they came back and told me, no, 492 00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:01,600 Speaker 1: we're not releasing you. And I don't know a lot 493 00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:04,879 Speaker 1: of churches that would have not let me go. But 494 00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:08,360 Speaker 1: they said, Number one is the Bible says that we're 495 00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:10,399 Speaker 1: supposed to care for orphans, and now we're going to 496 00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:11,639 Speaker 1: fire you because you did that. 497 00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:12,439 Speaker 2: Yeah. Right. 498 00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:18,520 Speaker 1: And then number two, you are managing an almost impossible situation. 499 00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:22,480 Speaker 1: You're calling the police, you're dealing with, you know, a therapist, 500 00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:25,119 Speaker 1: you're trying to help your kids, and so no. And 501 00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:29,520 Speaker 1: number three is that we need an example of what 502 00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:31,879 Speaker 1: it looks like to walk through the valley of the 503 00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:35,960 Speaker 1: shadow of death, what it looks like to be broken 504 00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:42,879 Speaker 1: and still trust Christ, so I think you know. And 505 00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:45,840 Speaker 1: they were so supportive. They Sometimes things would happen and 506 00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:49,240 Speaker 1: we met right behind here, and I remember on multiple 507 00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:52,160 Speaker 1: occasions those elders getting around and laying hands on Lori 508 00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:54,160 Speaker 1: and me and praying as we told them the latest thing, 509 00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:56,080 Speaker 1: and we were just so broken, and they would be 510 00:27:56,280 --> 00:28:00,400 Speaker 1: all these are men's men, all of them. They would 511 00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:03,680 Speaker 1: weep as they cried for us and prayed for us. 512 00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:10,320 Speaker 1: I wish I could tell you everything's put back together. 513 00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:16,040 Speaker 1: It's not one of our four children. The one who 514 00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:20,720 Speaker 1: has experienced the sexual assault the cutting has been healed 515 00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:23,639 Speaker 1: by the Lord. The other three are still, as we 516 00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:29,320 Speaker 1: like to say, working on their testimonies. But I think 517 00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:31,479 Speaker 1: the thing I wanted to get to with this is 518 00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:35,440 Speaker 1: that this is a principle of leadership that God uses brokenness. 519 00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:40,240 Speaker 1: There's a blessing of brokenness when we cannot do it, 520 00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:44,840 Speaker 1: and God is the one who can. I've heard it 521 00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:50,080 Speaker 1: said that we impress people with our strengths, but we 522 00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:56,240 Speaker 1: connect with people in our weakness. And nothing has made 523 00:28:56,320 --> 00:29:02,280 Speaker 1: me a better leader than brokenness. When I tell you 524 00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:03,880 Speaker 1: this story, I connect with you in a new way. 525 00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:06,040 Speaker 1: I could have told you I played professional basketball over 526 00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:08,440 Speaker 1: in France, and you would have said, well, that's really cool, 527 00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:13,760 Speaker 1: you're impressed. But if you have pain in your life, 528 00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:18,360 Speaker 1: you've connected with me at a level that you weren't 529 00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:24,520 Speaker 1: probably expecting. And I think there's as men, we need 530 00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:28,200 Speaker 1: to show that we can be broken and still be faithful, 531 00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:32,520 Speaker 1: even as pastors. I've shared not all of this with 532 00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:35,720 Speaker 1: our church family, much of it in our leadership training stuff. 533 00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:39,960 Speaker 1: I share all of it because I feel like we hide, 534 00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:42,880 Speaker 1: like we don't want people to see that we're broken. 535 00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:45,400 Speaker 1: We want people only see the strong side of us, 536 00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:50,120 Speaker 1: and we forfeit. I remember my son was arrested for 537 00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:55,240 Speaker 1: attempted murder two different times. One time I read the 538 00:29:56,200 --> 00:30:01,800 Speaker 1: clipping from the paper from the stage to our church family, 539 00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:07,640 Speaker 1: and I talked about mental illness and I talked about 540 00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:12,000 Speaker 1: the journey that we've been on. You know, once you 541 00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:16,400 Speaker 1: do that, it opens up the world of all the 542 00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:19,120 Speaker 1: people who've ever struggled with that and their families. They 543 00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:24,320 Speaker 1: want to talk. And so I think that's my I 544 00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:27,600 Speaker 1: think to the degree that God is going to use 545 00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:34,200 Speaker 1: a man greatly, he must wound him deeply. And so 546 00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:37,560 Speaker 1: I think here at our church, we talked about, hey 547 00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:42,160 Speaker 1: we are If you can't find somebody, you know, draw 548 00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:45,080 Speaker 1: circle around you that's ten feet wide, and you can't 549 00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:48,640 Speaker 1: find somebody broken, then come on up here, because I'm broken. 550 00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:50,640 Speaker 1: This is a church that has broken people. 551 00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:56,160 Speaker 2: A couple of things come to mind. One at what 552 00:30:56,280 --> 00:30:59,240 Speaker 2: point did you say, I'm not going to pull in, 553 00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:00,840 Speaker 2: but I'm going to share this with the rest of 554 00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:03,080 Speaker 2: the church. And what did that look like? 555 00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:07,320 Speaker 1: Yeah? Well, at first we kept it quiet because we 556 00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:10,400 Speaker 1: and other than the elders, and there's some elders that 557 00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:16,000 Speaker 1: are here. I felt like this was our kid's testimony, 558 00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:19,120 Speaker 1: and I didn't want to set them up. And so 559 00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:22,240 Speaker 1: in the process, I will tell you people thought ill 560 00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:27,160 Speaker 1: of us because no, for not, because they saw what 561 00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:30,400 Speaker 1: was happening with our kids, and so they thought something's 562 00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:32,240 Speaker 1: going on in that home where there's smoke ER's fire. 563 00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:34,640 Speaker 1: Some rich and Laurie have got to have some problems. 564 00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:36,560 Speaker 1: We had some people leave the church during this time, 565 00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:40,680 Speaker 1: significant amount of people, but our elders stood by us, 566 00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:44,560 Speaker 1: and I'm very grateful that they did so. At first, 567 00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:47,280 Speaker 1: it was like it's their testimony. We could tell them 568 00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:49,960 Speaker 1: everything we could tell him about David coming through the door. 569 00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:53,200 Speaker 1: But then he's got to live that down and if 570 00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:55,120 Speaker 1: he's coming back to the Lord, we pray he does. 571 00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:58,000 Speaker 1: We don't want to make it harder, and so we 572 00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:00,360 Speaker 1: were trying to protect them a little bit. Bet our 573 00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:03,360 Speaker 1: closest friends and our board of elders. We had a 574 00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:07,280 Speaker 1: team about a dozen people that they walked us right 575 00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:07,960 Speaker 1: through it. 576 00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:11,840 Speaker 2: Which makes me think you talked about team a little 577 00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:16,080 Speaker 2: while ago, and leaders understand team and building teams, and 578 00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:19,640 Speaker 2: the time to build the team is before you need. 579 00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:25,040 Speaker 1: It, before the crisis. Yeah, you know, yeah, And I 580 00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:28,200 Speaker 1: think part of the team is my staff as a 581 00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:31,120 Speaker 1: our staff as a team, but our board of elders 582 00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:35,640 Speaker 1: isn't my team. And they're strong, godly man, I mean, 583 00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:40,200 Speaker 1: really blessed. At one point they came to me and 584 00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:44,560 Speaker 1: they just said, hey, we're gonna We've decided you're not 585 00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:47,800 Speaker 1: going to preach on Sunday. And I said, no, no, 586 00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:49,760 Speaker 1: my sermon's already done. This is like on Friday. I 587 00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:52,560 Speaker 1: think my sermon's done, it's in the can. We're good 588 00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:55,600 Speaker 1: to go. And they said, now, you know, we've talked 589 00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:57,520 Speaker 1: your staff and we're going to give you a break. 590 00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:02,600 Speaker 1: And you're not disciplined. You just are overwhelmed with this thing. 591 00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:06,080 Speaker 1: And I said, no, no, I'm fine because we men 592 00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:10,720 Speaker 1: are always trying to be strong, right, And they said, no, no, 593 00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:15,680 Speaker 1: you're not. And one of my staff members is going 594 00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:18,520 Speaker 1: to preach on Sunday. We've got it scheduled out. You're not. 595 00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:22,400 Speaker 1: And I was in my living room because my Laurie 596 00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:24,720 Speaker 1: and I they came to our house and I was 597 00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:30,160 Speaker 1: in this chair and I started to just shake and 598 00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:37,360 Speaker 1: weep uncontrollably. The pressure that was I was under I 599 00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:42,320 Speaker 1: was unaware of. And because my team was strong, they 600 00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:45,680 Speaker 1: came and said, you can't stand on the front lines forever. 601 00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:48,720 Speaker 1: You've got to take a break. This is not healthy. 602 00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:52,640 Speaker 1: So they stepped in to help me so and they 603 00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:55,760 Speaker 1: said anything at that time. They said, you've always been 604 00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:58,280 Speaker 1: there for us. We need to be there for you now, 605 00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:01,920 Speaker 1: and that's why we are a team. 606 00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:05,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. Yeah, we're talking about brotherhood today at 607 00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:07,720 Speaker 2: the conference and we will later on. But yeah, the 608 00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:09,600 Speaker 2: time to have those people in your life is long 609 00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:10,600 Speaker 2: before you ever need them. 610 00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:17,759 Speaker 1: Yeah, and sometimes we as man we struggle with that. Yeah. Yeah, 611 00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:20,279 Speaker 1: I have two buddies that I worked out with every day, 612 00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:24,759 Speaker 1: and many they were there I mean they confronted me. 613 00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:27,440 Speaker 1: I mean they told me. One of my guys says, 614 00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:28,520 Speaker 1: you know what your problem is? Rich. 615 00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:32,200 Speaker 2: I go, no, but you're about ready to tell me. 616 00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:39,120 Speaker 1: I said, you're prideful. Oh, my prideful man. I'm trying 617 00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:41,279 Speaker 1: to take care of these kids and all the rest, 618 00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:44,080 Speaker 1: he says. And I was trying to get my kids 619 00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:46,359 Speaker 1: to the place that was going to cost a lot 620 00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:48,120 Speaker 1: of money so they get to get some extra help. 621 00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:52,640 Speaker 1: And he said, I said, He says, because you need 622 00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:56,400 Speaker 1: the money and you're not willing to ask for it. Yeah, 623 00:34:57,080 --> 00:35:00,520 Speaker 1: and uh and so I said, okay, I'm going to 624 00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:03,239 Speaker 1: ask for it. And they made two phone calls and 625 00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:06,520 Speaker 1: significant amount of money. I said, can I take a 626 00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:10,120 Speaker 1: loan out? Yep? When you need it? The second person 627 00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:14,120 Speaker 1: said yep. When they delivered it, they said to me, 628 00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:17,239 Speaker 1: this is not alone. This is a gift. And it 629 00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:20,400 Speaker 1: broke me again just that I had people in my 630 00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:23,640 Speaker 1: life that were willing to do that. So the brotherhood, 631 00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:24,120 Speaker 1: that's good. 632 00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:29,000 Speaker 2: When you're walking through something like that, and perhaps you've 633 00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:33,920 Speaker 2: talked about this, how do you lead your wife through that? 634 00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:36,080 Speaker 2: How do you walk her through that? And I'm not 635 00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:40,800 Speaker 2: I don't mean that in a way that diminishes her 636 00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:44,960 Speaker 2: or her you know, sovereignty of our own thoughts and actions. 637 00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:49,400 Speaker 2: But it's one thing for you to stand here and 638 00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:51,680 Speaker 2: deal with that and to have the elders walk into 639 00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:55,840 Speaker 2: your life. Meanwhile, Mom is dealing with the same things, 640 00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:57,919 Speaker 2: trying to figure it out, trying to navigate it, trying 641 00:35:57,920 --> 00:35:58,760 Speaker 2: to lead in the church. 642 00:35:59,120 --> 00:36:02,920 Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, my primary responsibility is not to the church. 643 00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:06,040 Speaker 1: My primary responsibility other than the Lord is to her. Right, 644 00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:09,759 Speaker 1: I said it before. Anybody could be a pastor, but 645 00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:13,399 Speaker 1: I'm the only husband that Laurie has, that's right, and 646 00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:15,960 Speaker 1: so I need to pour into her. And we really 647 00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:19,680 Speaker 1: did it together. Both of us were in the word, 648 00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:23,320 Speaker 1: both of us were praying, both of us were honest 649 00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:26,239 Speaker 1: with each other. There was times that I led her 650 00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:29,480 Speaker 1: really well. There's times she led me really well because 651 00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:35,520 Speaker 1: I was broken, and but I think we I mean, overall, 652 00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:40,600 Speaker 1: we were just very communicative. And you know, the last 653 00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:42,400 Speaker 1: conversation I had with my son, and this goes on 654 00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:48,000 Speaker 1: right even now, was threatening. And our boarder builders know 655 00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:51,719 Speaker 1: about it. We have things that because it's not it's 656 00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:55,920 Speaker 1: not normal, but we live with that. We know the 657 00:36:55,920 --> 00:36:59,319 Speaker 1: Lord's in charge, but we've done it together. And I'll 658 00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:01,840 Speaker 1: tell you something. When you go through a hard time 659 00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:06,319 Speaker 1: with your spouse and instead of becoming enemies, find out 660 00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:12,400 Speaker 1: that that person is your teammate, she's not your enemy. 661 00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:17,200 Speaker 1: Your relationship grows closer and not for other apart. And 662 00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:19,360 Speaker 1: we went through infertility. That was the first time I 663 00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:21,640 Speaker 1: ever learned that. We went to and we can recool closer. 664 00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:24,440 Speaker 1: And I thought, wow, that's pretty cool. And again, this 665 00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:26,000 Speaker 1: thing cost us to grow closer. 666 00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:30,120 Speaker 2: I heard someone say, in a marriage, you've grown when 667 00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:33,560 Speaker 2: you realize the devil's against you, not between you, and 668 00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:36,320 Speaker 2: it's us fighting the devil together, yes, right, not allowing 669 00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:37,040 Speaker 2: him to get between you. 670 00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:39,239 Speaker 1: We said we have a common enemy. We have a 671 00:37:39,239 --> 00:37:42,759 Speaker 1: common enemy. And it was chaos in our home. It 672 00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:44,600 Speaker 1: was you know. And again I think there were some 673 00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:48,960 Speaker 1: spiritual workings that were going on. The enemy was try 674 00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:53,279 Speaker 1: to take us out in the process. But it's interesting, 675 00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:57,120 Speaker 1: whatever is your weak point, whatever you think out here 676 00:37:57,800 --> 00:38:03,200 Speaker 1: might disqualify you from ministry, is actually the thing that 677 00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:05,960 Speaker 1: God wants to leverage and use to make you more effective. 678 00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:10,040 Speaker 1: The thing you're embarrassed by that you don't wish you what, 679 00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:15,880 Speaker 1: That's what God wants to leverage for his good and glory, 680 00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:21,000 Speaker 1: and over and over again, I have seen that. 681 00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:24,279 Speaker 2: That's good Man, there's so much there. Thank you for 682 00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:27,880 Speaker 2: sharing that. God redeems our stories when we're willing to 683 00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:29,960 Speaker 2: use those for the benefit of others. And as hard 684 00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:31,279 Speaker 2: as that is, I can't imagine. 685 00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:40,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah again, I when you understand that God is sovereign, 686 00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:46,640 Speaker 1: this is the path that He chose for Laurie and 687 00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:49,520 Speaker 1: me before the foundation of the world's people. Are you 688 00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:54,440 Speaker 1: sorry that you adopted these kids? No, I'd have a 689 00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:58,839 Speaker 1: lot more money and probably a lot more hair, right, 690 00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:05,200 Speaker 1: But this is what God ordained before the foundation of 691 00:39:05,239 --> 00:39:09,759 Speaker 1: the world. So I think instead of seeing where we 692 00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:14,800 Speaker 1: started this conversation was, you know, how do you manage 693 00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:18,720 Speaker 1: the crisis, the conflict, whatever is in ministry or life? 694 00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:21,319 Speaker 1: How do you to really recognize that that's part of 695 00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:24,520 Speaker 1: God's plan and part of the story that he has 696 00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:28,080 Speaker 1: for you. And so instead of fighting it, which I 697 00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:32,600 Speaker 1: fought it, I've fought it. No, Lord, this is somebody else. 698 00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:35,239 Speaker 1: I thought, one of the guys that's here, I'm looking 699 00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:37,359 Speaker 1: back in the back, Mike Bishops back there, I said 700 00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:41,279 Speaker 1: one time, I think God just hates me. He's the 701 00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:43,200 Speaker 1: only guy I said that too, other than you writer, 702 00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:45,560 Speaker 1: and so I know that feeling if you ever felt 703 00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:52,680 Speaker 1: like that. But actually God loves me, and I would 704 00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:55,960 Speaker 1: tell you that nothing has conformed me more to the 705 00:39:55,960 --> 00:40:00,879 Speaker 1: image of Jesus than this God. Time we have one 706 00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:03,600 Speaker 1: of these conflicts, it's really an invitation from the Lord 707 00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:05,920 Speaker 1: to say, will you lean in? Will you trust me 708 00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:09,279 Speaker 1: with this? Will you lean into me? And if we 709 00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:14,560 Speaker 1: do that, we are conformed to the blessed image of Jesus. 710 00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:18,719 Speaker 2: Sawesome the church here Hussel is going through the Book 711 00:40:18,719 --> 00:40:23,600 Speaker 2: of Philippians Sunday mornings and defiant joy, I have the 712 00:40:23,640 --> 00:40:28,279 Speaker 2: privilege of speaking tomorrow, And man, you gave me a 713 00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:32,560 Speaker 2: hard verse, do all things without murmurings and disputings, And 714 00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:35,440 Speaker 2: so I've been I've been thinking on that over the 715 00:40:35,520 --> 00:40:39,120 Speaker 2: last several weeks, and I'm excited about tomorrow and being 716 00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:44,040 Speaker 2: able to share that. But so do all things about 717 00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:46,319 Speaker 2: murmurings and disputings. The verse before that says, for is 718 00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:48,279 Speaker 2: God which works in you both the will and to 719 00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:51,600 Speaker 2: do of his good pleasure. So God has a plan 720 00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:54,640 Speaker 2: and it's his plan, and he's doing it through you, 721 00:40:54,840 --> 00:40:57,759 Speaker 2: and it's good and it's a good plan. Yeah, therefore 722 00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:01,560 Speaker 2: do what He set before you without murmurings and disputings. 723 00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:05,040 Speaker 2: The next verse talks about the opportunity we have to 724 00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:10,400 Speaker 2: shine the light of the good news to others. But 725 00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:13,200 Speaker 2: the thing that gets between God's working and shining the 726 00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:15,959 Speaker 2: light is us having a bad attitude about where God's 727 00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:16,439 Speaker 2: put us. 728 00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:17,720 Speaker 1: Man, I can't wait for tomorrow. 729 00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:19,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's it. You don't need to come. That's the 730 00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:23,080 Speaker 2: whole thing. But I've spent so much time just man, 731 00:41:23,160 --> 00:41:26,719 Speaker 2: that's so good. But to exactly your point, when you 732 00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:30,560 Speaker 2: realize God is sovereign and God has a plan, what 733 00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:31,720 Speaker 2: are we complaining about? 734 00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:34,799 Speaker 1: So the three things and our four church, here's me 735 00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:36,879 Speaker 1: talk about these three things all the time. First off, 736 00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:41,800 Speaker 1: God is good. If you believe that, Samen, So okay. 737 00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:44,640 Speaker 1: So what that means is God wants what is best 738 00:41:44,680 --> 00:41:49,879 Speaker 1: for you. Okay. So that's God wants what's best for you. Now. 739 00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:54,400 Speaker 1: The next thing is God is wise. He is all wisdom. 740 00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:57,760 Speaker 1: All wisdom starts with him. If you believe that, Samen, Okay, 741 00:41:57,800 --> 00:42:01,040 Speaker 1: So God is good. He wants what's for me. Number 742 00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:04,000 Speaker 1: two is he's wise, which means what he knows what's 743 00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:10,319 Speaker 1: best for me. He knows what's best for you. And 744 00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:14,160 Speaker 1: the third thing is he's all powerful. If you believe 745 00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:18,920 Speaker 1: that's amen. So that means what, Well, he's able to 746 00:42:19,040 --> 00:42:23,759 Speaker 1: do what is best for you, he wants what's best 747 00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:26,799 Speaker 1: for me, he knows what's best for him you, and 748 00:42:26,840 --> 00:42:29,879 Speaker 1: he's able to do what's best for me. So then 749 00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:32,799 Speaker 1: why in the world do I want to grumble or 750 00:42:32,840 --> 00:42:37,319 Speaker 1: why in the world, Well, I let life rob me 751 00:42:37,360 --> 00:42:42,279 Speaker 1: of jewel and so I've had to learn that. I mean, 752 00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:45,839 Speaker 1: I cannot tell you, guys, I'm not sitting here as 753 00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:50,080 Speaker 1: a guy that made it through this process without grumbling, 754 00:42:51,080 --> 00:42:59,160 Speaker 1: without being frustrated angry. But I can't tell you a man, 755 00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:03,120 Speaker 1: nothing has conformed me more to Christ than the pain 756 00:43:03,239 --> 00:43:06,680 Speaker 1: and brokenness. Well, thank you, you're well. I thank you 757 00:43:06,719 --> 00:43:07,600 Speaker 1: for sharing it. 758 00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:12,120 Speaker 2: It's awesome. I appreciate it and man, so good. Appreciate 759 00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:16,160 Speaker 2: you guys, thanks to our live in studio audience. Sorry, 760 00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:19,600 Speaker 2: good job, you were good work. You guys did a 761 00:43:19,600 --> 00:43:23,000 Speaker 2: great job. And for those who are listening or watching, 762 00:43:23,080 --> 00:43:25,759 Speaker 2: thank you for doing that and appreciate you all. We'll 763 00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:26,879 Speaker 2: talk next time.