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Speaker 1: Life Audio.

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Speaker 2: What if the Jesus that you have been believing in

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Speaker 2: isn't the real Jesus. What if you've been missing out

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Speaker 2: on the fullness of the Messiah. That is what me

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Speaker 2: and my guests are diving into in today's episode. Hello, Hello, Hello,

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Speaker 2: ladies and gents, and welcome to this week's episode of

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Speaker 2: the Bottom Beloved Podcast.

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Speaker 3: As always, it's a girl Kirby Kelly.

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Speaker 2: Back at it again and I am so stoked for

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Speaker 2: today's guest. In today's topic, I think that this is

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Speaker 2: this is a book that I've recently read. Y'all know,

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Speaker 2: I have people in here all the time, so I

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Speaker 2: feel like my nose is buried deep in a book

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Speaker 2: and this was one that really not just resonated with me,

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Speaker 2: but I think is so relevant to the culture that

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Speaker 2: we live in today, where so many people claim that

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Speaker 2: they love Jesus, that they believe in Jesus, maybe that

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Speaker 2: they follow Jesus, but are they following the real Jesus? Like,

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Speaker 2: can the real Jesus please stand up?

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Speaker 3: You know what I mean.

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Speaker 2: We're going to dive into all of that and more

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Speaker 2: today with my guest Kyle Idelman, who wrote a book

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Speaker 2: It's out now and it's called the Missing Messiah, the Jesus.

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Speaker 2: We can no longer ignore. Oh sounds so good, so convicting.

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Speaker 2: But before we dive into all of that, I want

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Speaker 2: to just throw it over to him. Kyle, welcome to

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Speaker 2: the podcast. Can you just introduce yourself and let the

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Speaker 2: listeners know who you are, what you do, and what

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Speaker 2: you're passionate about.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, hey, it's great to be with you, Kirby. So.

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Speaker 4: I am a pastor in Louisville, Kentucky. I have the

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Speaker 4: privilege of walking with a lot of people on their

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Speaker 4: spiritual journey, and so my passion, as it should be,

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Speaker 4: is to connect them to Jesus in deep and meaningful,

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Speaker 4: transformational ways.

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Speaker 1: And one of the challenges.

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Speaker 4: That I have seen over the years is that most

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Speaker 4: of us come to the table with some ideas about

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Speaker 4: who Jesus is, and we're not necessarily sure where we

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Speaker 4: picked up on him, Like we don't necessarily remember somebody

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Speaker 4: teaching it to us. We're not always clear that it

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Speaker 4: is connected maybe to a church that we went to

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Speaker 4: as a kid, or culturally the messages that we bought into.

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Speaker 4: But we have these ideas about about who Jesus is

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Speaker 4: or who he should be from our perspective, and so

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Speaker 4: I'm really passionate about looking at the life of Jesus

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Speaker 4: in scripture and doing our best to separate how we

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Speaker 4: have come to think of him versus how the Bible

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Speaker 4: describes him. Here's the point of conviction for me, is

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Speaker 4: like I can look back in history and I can see,

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Speaker 4: you know, like the Crusaders who used scripture to justify,

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Speaker 4: you know, their mission, or I could look at slave

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Speaker 4: owners who used the Bible and describe Jesus a certain way,

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Speaker 4: or even in.

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Speaker 1: Nazi Germany, you.

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Speaker 4: Had people describing Jesus a certain way, and I'm guessing

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Speaker 4: that most of them, if you would have sat down

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Speaker 4: and talked to them, they were convinced that how they

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Speaker 4: saw Jesus was the right way. Now we look back

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Speaker 4: on that historically and we're like, how in the world

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Speaker 4: because you have gotten that so wrong? And yet my question,

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Speaker 4: and you know what I want to really be in

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Speaker 4: tune to, is how are we doing that. Are there

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Speaker 4: some ways that maybe culturally or individually, we have framed

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Speaker 4: Jesus up to be what we want him to be

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Speaker 4: or what we're most comfortable with, versus how he is

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Speaker 4: identified in the Gospels, how he describes himself.

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Speaker 3: So good, so good.

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Speaker 2: I especially love that word who we're most comfortable with,

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Speaker 2: because it really can't be like that where it's like, well,

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Speaker 2: you know, Jesus is loving and kind and all this stuff.

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Speaker 2: It's like, I'm going to take the good parts or

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Speaker 2: what I would constitute the good parts. God is good

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Speaker 2: in everything, but what I would constitute as the good

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Speaker 2: parts of the comfortable parts, and lean into that side

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Speaker 2: of Jesus.

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Speaker 3: That's the Jesus that I want.

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Speaker 2: It's this this pick and choose Jesus, and you even

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Speaker 2: open the book with like this build to bear story,

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Speaker 2: which becomes a metaphor throughout the book of like how

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Speaker 2: we customize Jesus. So I think that that's something that

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Speaker 2: a lot of us do, where it's like we go

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Speaker 2: and we kind of shop around, and it's like we're

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Speaker 2: building him to our liking, to our convictions or lack thereof,

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Speaker 2: really our comforts, our vices even, and it's like we

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Speaker 2: end up with a completely different Jesus. And that not

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Speaker 2: only leads to confusion in our culture, but it leads

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Speaker 2: to dissension and division within the body. I mean, it

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Speaker 2: really plagues the question of well are you are you saved?

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Speaker 2: Like it comes down to a salvation issue if we

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Speaker 2: if we don't know who Jesus is, and if we're

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Speaker 2: not submitted and committed to him in relationship with him.

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Speaker 2: So this really is a big issue. It's not just oh,

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Speaker 2: you got these things wrong, but it's like we need

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Speaker 2: to correct these things to getting right so we can

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Speaker 2: actually relate to the God of the universe who wants

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Speaker 2: relationship with us and who made a way for us.

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Speaker 2: So I think your book is just absolutely timely.

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Speaker 3: I feel like.

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Speaker 4: It's well I was gonna say, I used that metaphor,

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Speaker 4: the building bear metaphor, as an an example of how

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Speaker 4: we culturally tend to approach almost everything, which is very

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Speaker 4: individualized and that feels good to us. Like I walk

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Speaker 4: through the line, and so I want a little bit

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Speaker 4: of this, or I like, you know, I like I

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Speaker 4: like it a little more fluffy, I like it.

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Speaker 1: A little more firm.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 4: We we have these different preferences and and and it's

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Speaker 4: not just like with build a bear, like that's true,

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Speaker 4: you know, in everything when it when it comes to

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Speaker 4: the food we eat, you know, or the Chipotle approach,

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Speaker 4: or you know, even the clothes that we we order online,

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Speaker 4: and how we can individualize everything.

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Speaker 1: And so, you know, one way to think about this

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Speaker 1: is to compare.

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Speaker 4: Two words, like there's a big difference between a personal

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Speaker 4: savior and a personalized savior. And well, Jesus is very personal,

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Speaker 4: you know, like his love for you as a person,

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Speaker 4: as an individual is very real. The personalized savior would

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Speaker 4: be that that we make Jesus into our image and

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Speaker 4: it's not that he's And so I want to be

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Speaker 4: careful to make that distinction. This this book is not

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Speaker 4: pulling people away from a personal savior. It's recognizing the

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Speaker 4: danger of personalizing our savior, of making him who we

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Speaker 4: want him to be. And so in the book, we

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Speaker 4: just kind of go through, uh, some different ways that

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Speaker 4: we do this and then point to who he who

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Speaker 4: he says he is.

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Speaker 1: And you know, one of the one.

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Speaker 4: Of the ways we do this that I, yeah, I

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Speaker 4: think is especially relevant is you know, I would call

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Speaker 4: him a compartmentalized to Jesus, where where we.

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Speaker 1: Want him to stay in his drawer.

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Speaker 4: If you think about your life as a dresser, but

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Speaker 4: like it has your you know, relationship drawer, and your

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Speaker 4: financial drawer and your uh, sexuality drawer, and you know,

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Speaker 4: your entertainment drawer, and then your you got your Jesus drawer.

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Speaker 4: And we love our you know, we love our Jesus drawer.

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Speaker 1: But just keep him in his drawer.

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Speaker 4: And and what we what we see in the Gospels,

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Speaker 4: of course, is that Jesus is the dresser that all

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Speaker 4: the drawers fit.

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Speaker 1: Into that that.

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Speaker 4: That we are to give him access to all these

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Speaker 4: areas of our life.

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Speaker 1: But but our.

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Speaker 4: Comfort tends to be with with hey, I'd like to

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Speaker 4: keep all these drawers separate, and so kind of recognizing

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Speaker 4: that most all of us have that tendency, like don't

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Speaker 4: be afraid of the of seeing that in yourself. Just

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Speaker 4: recognize that we have a tendency to approach Jesus that way.

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Speaker 4: And when we do that, then we're really missing out

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Speaker 4: on his lordship with his messiah ship. Which is really

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Speaker 4: the idea of the missing Messiah, is that that to

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Speaker 4: Jesus isn't just savior, that he's Messiah. The Greek word

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Speaker 4: for Messiah is Christ and and it just means anointed one.

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Speaker 4: We would think of it as anointed king. We tend

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Speaker 4: to hear Jesus Christ as like, well, Jesus is his

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Speaker 4: first name in Christ is his last name, yep, and

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Speaker 4: and so we're using his first and last name. But

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Speaker 4: but really, you know, Christ is a way of saying,

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Speaker 4: you know Jesus my lord, you know Jesus my king,

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Speaker 4: and that has such huge implications and how we approach

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Speaker 4: our faith.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I was actually going to ask you about that, about like, well,

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Speaker 2: why why is it important to recover the meaning of Messiah?

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Speaker 2: But you kind of just touched on it that it

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Speaker 2: esteems him to this place of royalty. And it's like,

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Speaker 2: as much as Jesus is our friend and we can

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Speaker 2: sing about that in our Sunday school and we can

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Speaker 2: relate to him in that way, right, he was the

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Speaker 2: friend of sinners, So that isn't true, or that that

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Speaker 2: isn't not true that he stepped down from heaven and

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Speaker 2: he humbled himself and he dwelt among humanity.

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Speaker 3: That's so true.

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Speaker 2: But it's like we can some of us have such

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Speaker 2: a lean in that direction that we completely abandon the

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Speaker 2: kingship of Christ and the godship in a way. I

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Speaker 2: think of Christ, the holiness of Christ, of submitting to

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Speaker 2: him in this way and.

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Speaker 3: That he's he as much as he did.

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Speaker 2: Humble himself to come and serve humanity. He's not just

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Speaker 2: there with the silver platter waiting on us in that way,

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Speaker 2: like we are called as the body of believers to

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Speaker 2: serve him, to submit our lives to him. After seeing

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Speaker 2: this great display of love of this God that he

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Speaker 2: get to know and love and serve, right, And that

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Speaker 2: makes me think of kingship, right, like he is the king.

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Speaker 2: The King is coming, He's coming back. But I want

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Speaker 2: to break that down because Messiah in the book you

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Speaker 2: talk about how Jesus is king, You talk about him

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Speaker 2: as prophet, you talk about him as priest. I think

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Speaker 2: that king can kind of be easy for us to conceptualize.

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Speaker 2: But maybe in the modern day day culture and context,

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Speaker 2: depending where you are in the world and what other

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Speaker 2: faith communities you might be around, even the idea of

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Speaker 2: prophet and the idea of priest, I think those are two,

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Speaker 2: especially priest, maybe are like two that we kind of

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Speaker 2: don't view Jesus as much or have as much understanding

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Speaker 2: for him in those roles, especially as a fulfillment of

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Speaker 2: the Old Testament.

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Speaker 3: So could you just take.

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Speaker 2: Some time right now to break down Jesus's messiah ship

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Speaker 2: and how that relates to king, how that relates to prophet,

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Speaker 2: how that relates to priest.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and I just want to connect it to a

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Speaker 4: word that you use two or three times that is

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Speaker 4: so foundational to this discussion.

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Speaker 1: And you you use the word submission.

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Speaker 4: And and in our approach to Jesus, we we focus

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Speaker 4: lots on salvation and uh, and that's beautiful. Jesus as Savior,

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Speaker 4: we want to celebrate that. Don't want to take anything

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Speaker 4: away from that, Yes, but but to connect.

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Speaker 1: Jesus as Savior to Jesus as who we.

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Speaker 4: Submit to is is oftentimes where we we miss it.

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Speaker 4: So Savior would say, you know that Jesus came to

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Speaker 4: serve me. What Jesus said, I've come, you know, I've

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Speaker 4: come to serve you. He said, that's why you came.

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Speaker 4: But Messiah King would be would be, I'm there to

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Speaker 4: to serve him. It's it's a it's a spiritual maturity

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Speaker 4: that shifts from just saying, okay, well now what can

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Speaker 4: Jesus do for me to saying what does he want

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Speaker 4: to do through me?

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Speaker 1: What's my role in his kingdom? Coming?

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Speaker 4: And and so understanding how you know Jesus fulfills those

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Speaker 4: three roles that you mentioned so in in in scripture

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Speaker 4: the Old Testament, Messiah Uh means the anointed one, and

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Speaker 4: there were three different anointed roles, or it was the priest,

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Speaker 4: the king, and the prophet. And so when you think

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Speaker 4: of a king, you think of of King David. You

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Speaker 4: know that he is a that he is a liberator,

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Speaker 4: that he is a king, is there too to rule

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Speaker 4: over people, but to also be a protector and one

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Speaker 4: who sets people free. The prophet would be a prophet

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Speaker 4: like Moses, would be the You know that he is

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Speaker 4: a teacher of truth, that he speaks on God's behalf,

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Speaker 4: that he holds up justice, justice and truth. And and

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Speaker 4: then a priest like Melchizedek, meaning that he is this

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Speaker 4: mediator between God and people and people and God, that

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Speaker 4: he he he goes between us and Uh speaks to

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Speaker 4: God on our behalf and and and then speaks to

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Speaker 4: us on God's behalf. And so the Messiah then is

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Speaker 4: someone who would have fulfilled all three of those roles,

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Speaker 4: so that when in first in the first century, when

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Speaker 4: Jesus is introduced as Messiah, the Gentile audience wouldn't have

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Speaker 4: have made the connection as clearly, but for the Jewish

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Speaker 4: audience they're hearing. Oh wait, so this is a prophet,

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Speaker 4: a priest, and a king like this is the fulfillment

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Speaker 4: of what.

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Speaker 1: We see in in the Old Testament. And and why

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Speaker 1: that mattered so.

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Speaker 4: Much is that it was a you know, I'll use

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Speaker 4: the word political, although it's a little different than how

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Speaker 4: we might think of it in our Western world.

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Speaker 1: It was a very politically charged title.

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Speaker 4: And and and we don't tend to think of Jesus

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Speaker 4: as political in our sense of it, but he was

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Speaker 4: political and that he came bringing a kingdom, and he came,

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Speaker 4: you know, calling followers and and so and so to

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Speaker 4: recognize that.

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Speaker 1: That are following Jesus is an allegiance. It is devotion.

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Speaker 4: It's not you know, we use the word believe, and

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Speaker 4: that that's right. I mean, the Bible talks about those

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Speaker 4: who believe, but but belief for us oftentimes it's just

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Speaker 4: like this mental assent. Well, I think that's true, so

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Speaker 4: I must believe it. Belief in the Gospels was a

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Speaker 4: was as a following that you couldn't believe in Jesus

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Speaker 4: and Messiah without that costing you something like without that

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Speaker 4: if you declare Jesus as Messiah.

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Speaker 1: In first century Rome.

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Speaker 4: What you're declaring there is your allegiance to a different ruler,

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Speaker 4: which puts your life in danger, and and so and

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Speaker 4: so understanding that belief is is a commitment to follow.

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Speaker 4: It's saying, Okay, I I want to align my life

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Speaker 4: with what Jesus teaches, not just I want to get

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Speaker 4: a ticket to heaven. And and so the you know,

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Speaker 4: the the way we sometimes approach our relationship with Jesus

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Speaker 4: is okay, well, this is what it means to be

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Speaker 4: a Christian. You know, I believe in Jesus, I improve

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Speaker 4: my life, I go to heaven. And and what you

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Speaker 4: just see in in scripture is a much different understanding

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Speaker 4: like of of what it means to follow Jesus. That

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Speaker 4: it is eternal life. But it's eternal life that begins

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Speaker 4: now you know that it's a it's a relationship with

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Speaker 4: Jesus that calls us uh to to to deep levels

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Speaker 4: of commitment.

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Speaker 2: I love that because it's like it's there's almost this

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Speaker 2: like popular formula that's that's taught nowadays. And you write

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Speaker 2: about this in the book of How what is it like?

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Speaker 2: You know, you believe in Jesus, you improve yourself, then

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Speaker 2: you get your ticket to heaven, like you just said,

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Speaker 2: and it's like there is so much missing from that.

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Speaker 3: There is so much of the Gospel message that is.

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Speaker 2: Missing from that where it's like we make it this

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Speaker 2: thing where it's it is, you know, we just check

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Speaker 2: it off a list and there's no real relationship. There's

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Speaker 2: no real to bring it back submission and surrender an

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Speaker 2: allegiance to Jesus lording over your life. And maybe there

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Speaker 2: is that disconnect just because we are in like what

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Speaker 2: the twenty first century and we don't really have this

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Speaker 2: this idea of lordship where it's like, you know, people

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Speaker 2: lording over a land and.

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Speaker 3: Property and this and that and the other.

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Speaker 2: It's like maybe you think of your landlord and you're

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Speaker 2: like hate that guy, and it's like, okay, well Jesus

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Speaker 2: is better than your landlord, so maybe like contextualize it

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Speaker 2: a little bit more.

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Speaker 3: But it's it's it's so different.

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Speaker 2: When we allow Jesus to lord over our life as prophet,

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Speaker 2: as priest, as king, it changes everything.

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Speaker 3: It changes how we relate to him, it changes how

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Speaker 3: we relate to the world.

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Speaker 2: It's not just eternity starts when I die. It's exactly

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Speaker 2: like you mentioned eternity starts today and living different today

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Speaker 2: and aligning with the values of the Kingdom of God,

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Speaker 2: and that changes us and it changes how we completely

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Speaker 2: interact with everything and everyone in our world today. But

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Speaker 2: I kind of want to shift gears because we just

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Speaker 2: talked about defining and putting Jesus in that proper place

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Speaker 2: of him as Messiah. But you walk through different versions

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Speaker 2: of Jesus, you guys, walk through different versions of Him

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Speaker 2: in the book that people create like they have therapeutic Jesus,

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Speaker 2: they have a partisan Jesus, they have success oriented Jesus.

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Speaker 3: It's like back to the build of Bear analogy.

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Speaker 2: But which version do you think a lot of people

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Speaker 2: create or are drawn to in our world, in our culture,

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Speaker 2: maybe here even in the West. That is dangerous, That

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Speaker 2: is dangerous to just limit Jesus to this one picture

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Speaker 2: that we've created, or maybe you.

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Speaker 3: Have a few.

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Speaker 4: No, well, you know, we've kind of been touching on

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Speaker 4: the convenient Jesus, the Jesus that you know we like

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Speaker 4: on Sundays or you know we keep in that dress

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Speaker 4: or drawer but doesn't intrude on on our Mondays.

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Speaker 1: You know, I had a guy send me an email saying.

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Speaker 4: That he was no longer going to come to church,

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Speaker 4: and his complaint was that he said that in my sermons.

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Speaker 4: He said, I feel like you're I feel like you

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Speaker 4: keep trying to interfere with my life. And you know,

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Speaker 4: from his perspective, like that's not okay, Like you're I'm

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Speaker 4: not supposed to come to church and listen to scripture

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Speaker 4: and have to interfere with my life. When when I

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Speaker 4: read that, I'm like, oh, that's kind of like my

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Speaker 4: job description, Like that's part of you know, that's part

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Speaker 4: of our role as followers of Jesus is to you know,

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Speaker 4: allow scripture to interfere with our lives.

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Speaker 1: So there's a convenient Jesus.

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Speaker 4: We talk in the book about the partisan Jesus or

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Speaker 4: like the politically uh charged Jesus, where he's a you

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Speaker 4: think of him as a political mascot where you kind

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Speaker 4: of use Jesus to represent your political platform on either side,

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Speaker 4: on either side. And by the way, this isn't just

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Speaker 4: Western culture, Like this goes all the way back to

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Speaker 4: you know, the very you know I think about Jesus

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Speaker 4: when when they were trying to insist that he become

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Speaker 4: king and he just doesn't. I mean he just walks

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Speaker 4: away from it. And I'm sure his followers were like, hey, look, Jesus,

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Speaker 4: if you just lean into this a little, you don't

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Speaker 4: have to let them even crown you can. If you

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Speaker 4: just lean into this a little, maybe post a few things,

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Speaker 4: you know that we'll get a lot more followers if

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Speaker 4: you just take some positions here, and if you just

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Speaker 4: speak out against the Roman government over here, if you

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Speaker 4: you know, if you just you know, talk about the

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Speaker 4: you know, the propaganda machine of Rome, if you just

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Speaker 4: make some of those statements, we'll get a lot more fun.

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Speaker 1: And Jesus just refused to do it, you know.

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Speaker 4: He They tried to put him in different camps, put

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Speaker 4: him on different sides, and Jesus was just always on

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Speaker 4: his own side. And so you see this oftentimes an

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Speaker 4: election season where you know, Jesus gets held up as

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Speaker 4: as very partisan, as a political mascot. And and then

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Speaker 4: you mentioned this one of the success oriented Jesus. Where

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Speaker 4: where where we turn Jesus into like this champion of

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Speaker 4: prosperity and of wealth. And so we take this rabbi

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Speaker 4: who had nowhere to lay his head, We're like, you

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Speaker 4: know what we're gonna We're gonna turn him into you

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Speaker 4: know that the success coach, a life coach, and and

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Speaker 4: he becomes you know, you have to be careful with

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Speaker 4: some of this because Jesus does you know, the fruitious

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Speaker 4: spirit does.

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Speaker 1: Become more evident in your life.

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Speaker 4: You love this patient and kind and gentle and and.

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Speaker 1: And so we do grow in those ways.

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Speaker 4: But like I get concerned when Jesus starts to sound

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Speaker 4: like part of our self improvement regimen. You know, like, well,

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Speaker 4: I'm i'm cold plunging, and I'm I'm I've got Jesus

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Speaker 4: and uh, and you know, I think we have to

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Speaker 4: be careful not to put him into a category of uh.

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Speaker 4: He his primary focus is on on on improving my

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Speaker 4: chances of success. That following Jesus's is some some sort of.

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Speaker 3: The key to unlocking the next whatever.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, and we grow. I mean, it's

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Speaker 1: not toy.

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Speaker 4: Mean, Jesus came said, and John tin, I've come that

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Speaker 4: you might have life and have it to the full.

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Speaker 4: He wants you to live an abundant life.

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Speaker 2: Uh.

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Speaker 4: But we have to understand that his definition of success

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Speaker 4: is much more connected to faithfulness. It's much more connected

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Speaker 4: to holiness than happiness. And uh, and I'm not sure

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Speaker 4: that's always the way we're defining success. And then the

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Speaker 4: one other one that I would mention is the therapeutic Jesus,

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Speaker 4: where he, you know, exists primarily to boost our self

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Speaker 4: esteem and and he's very affirming but never confronting. And

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Speaker 4: you know, you just have to stop and ask yourself,

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Speaker 4: you know, when is the last time that he my

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Speaker 4: relationship with Jesus challenged me.

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Speaker 1: Where he.

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Speaker 4: My relationship, my following him cost me something. You know,

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Speaker 4: if you can't come up with an answer for that,

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Speaker 4: then then there's a good chance that some of this

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Speaker 4: has seeped in.

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Speaker 2: Yes, because I think that's something that I've really been

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Speaker 2: thinking about recently, is this idea of Jesus is compassionate

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Speaker 2: and he is our comforter. He's he is all of

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Speaker 2: those things and more, and the and more that we

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Speaker 2: often like forget is that he's also convicting, and like

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Speaker 2: that is the kindest thing that he can do, is

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Speaker 2: that he convicts and he confronts the sin in our life,

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Speaker 2: the vices in our life, the compromises that we've made,

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Speaker 2: the areas where we are just struggling to surrender that

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Speaker 2: that that might not even be bad or look bad

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Speaker 2: compared to all the dirty, rotten centers out there, But

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Speaker 2: it's keeping you from what He has for.

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Speaker 3: You, which is better, which is best.

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Speaker 2: And I think that is something that I notice more

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Speaker 2: in at least like Texas, where there's kind of this

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Speaker 2: cultural Christianity where it's like, you know, talk about the

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Speaker 2: Jesus drawards, like that's where you keep your Sunday best

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Speaker 2: and that's it, and it's like you put that on,

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Speaker 2: you throw that on, and it's this comfortable Christianity where

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Speaker 2: church has become like a country club of sorts, and

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Speaker 2: it's like, where is the challenge here? Like where is

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Speaker 2: the going and sending and making disciples and the cost

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Speaker 2: of your life that I'm seeing in my brothers and

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Speaker 2: sisters in other states, in other countries overseas. Like it's

440
00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:47,280
Speaker 2: just there needs to be this wake up call in

441
00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:52,000
Speaker 2: that area that I'm seeing culturally in my community. And

442
00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:55,440
Speaker 2: I'm sure that anyone who's listening what you just said, Kyle,

443
00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:59,080
Speaker 2: that we can identify where that might be within us

444
00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:01,639
Speaker 2: and where that might be within our churches or within

445
00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:02,480
Speaker 2: our communities.

446
00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:05,720
Speaker 3: And that's not to bash the church or to bash.

447
00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:08,199
Speaker 2: Christianity or anything, but it's something we need to be

448
00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:13,120
Speaker 2: aware of, and we might need to pioneer in our communities,

449
00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:17,000
Speaker 2: in our cultures that have become comfortable with framing Jesus

450
00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:20,720
Speaker 2: in a way in which maybe that's a sliver of him,

451
00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:24,120
Speaker 2: but we have completely made that his whole identity when

452
00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:27,600
Speaker 2: there is so much more to who he is as

453
00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:30,320
Speaker 2: Messiah in our life.

454
00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:33,200
Speaker 4: It's so good and I'm so encouraged by the way

455
00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:38,720
Speaker 4: with this next generations pursuit of following Jesus in that way, yes,

456
00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:43,240
Speaker 4: where it's not just hey, you know, entertain me or

457
00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:47,000
Speaker 4: or it's not just feed me, it's hey, I want

458
00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:48,879
Speaker 4: to I want to be a part of this. I

459
00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:51,679
Speaker 4: want to engage in this. I want to help lead this.

460
00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:55,960
Speaker 4: I you know, I I there seems to be a more,

461
00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:01,120
Speaker 4: you know, a deeper awareness that that this should cost

462
00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:03,320
Speaker 4: me something, and I not only should it, I want

463
00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:06,520
Speaker 4: it to. I want to be committed on that level.

464
00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:10,760
Speaker 4: So I'm I'm excited for what I think is happening

465
00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:14,200
Speaker 4: in our churches, and I've for some awakening that I

466
00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:16,000
Speaker 4: think the next generation is going to bring to the

467
00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:16,800
Speaker 4: church as a whole.

468
00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:18,840
Speaker 3: I completely agree.

469
00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:21,080
Speaker 2: I see that I've been a part of that, and

470
00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:24,360
Speaker 2: it's it's amazing to know that, like my peers, even

471
00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:26,320
Speaker 2: growing up in a Texas high school where it's like

472
00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:29,960
Speaker 2: everybody's Christian, They're all posting their Easter Sunday photos, It's

473
00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:33,360
Speaker 2: like I didn't see a lot of the other students

474
00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:35,920
Speaker 2: in my life at least like living with that conviction.

475
00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:39,720
Speaker 2: But then going to a Christian university and seeing everybody,

476
00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:41,720
Speaker 2: if not everybody, you know, ninety eight percent of the

477
00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:43,240
Speaker 2: students they living with that conviction.

478
00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:45,480
Speaker 3: I was like, this is amazing.

479
00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:47,920
Speaker 2: And now I think just even with social media, we're

480
00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:50,720
Speaker 2: able to see that more and more of that. Wait this,

481
00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:54,320
Speaker 2: We're not alone in this of wanting to actually know

482
00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:57,840
Speaker 2: Christ and make him known.

483
00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:01,280
Speaker 3: Like who he actually is because he is that good.

484
00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:04,520
Speaker 2: And I think there even can be that timidity of well,

485
00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:07,080
Speaker 2: if I present people the real Jesus, won't they just

486
00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:10,480
Speaker 2: reject him because he does confront sin, even though he

487
00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:12,840
Speaker 2: is compassionate and invites us to have a seat at

488
00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:15,640
Speaker 2: the table and all these things. But to the person

489
00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:17,600
Speaker 2: who might be listening, I just feel compelled even to

490
00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:23,240
Speaker 2: share this. If you feel afraid to share the real Jesus,

491
00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:26,000
Speaker 2: I want to encourage you that the real Jesus is

492
00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:29,520
Speaker 2: the best Jesus.

493
00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:31,840
Speaker 3: That's the Jesus. We all need, the one who is

494
00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:35,520
Speaker 3: willing to call us out in truth and in love,

495
00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:37,000
Speaker 3: to walk in.

496
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:39,560
Speaker 2: The light, to not be a part of death and

497
00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:43,400
Speaker 2: darkness anymore. We live in a world and we always

498
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:47,240
Speaker 2: have nothing's new under the sun where we need life.

499
00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:50,000
Speaker 3: We are craving real life.

500
00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:52,040
Speaker 2: And life to the full, like you said, life abundantly,

501
00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:54,960
Speaker 2: John ten ten. But the only one who brings that

502
00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:58,280
Speaker 2: is the real Jesus. And that's the whole package. It

503
00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:00,960
Speaker 2: comes with the whole package of who who Jesus is,

504
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:04,080
Speaker 2: the whole gospel, God of Old Testament, God of New Testament.

505
00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:07,800
Speaker 2: It's not different, right, and there's beauty in both when

506
00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:13,160
Speaker 2: we can contextually understand who he is, why he does

507
00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:15,920
Speaker 2: what he does, why he calls us to submit and surrender,

508
00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:18,680
Speaker 2: why he calls us to live these lives that are

509
00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:21,800
Speaker 2: fully abandoned, to follow him and allow him to lord

510
00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:23,679
Speaker 2: and rule and rain in our life because it is

511
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:26,320
Speaker 2: the better thing when we can actually step back from

512
00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:29,520
Speaker 2: our own context, our own community, our own culture, our

513
00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:33,359
Speaker 2: own fabrication of what is good, defining it like Adam

514
00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:36,479
Speaker 2: and Eve from the very beginning and actually tasting and

515
00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:40,359
Speaker 2: seeing who is good it changes everything. So just be

516
00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:43,439
Speaker 2: encouraged that the real Jesus is the best Jesus, and

517
00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:45,919
Speaker 2: that's the Jesus that we need to know and that

518
00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:47,160
Speaker 2: we need to make known.

519
00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:49,360
Speaker 3: But on that note, as we.

520
00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:53,560
Speaker 2: Begin to wrap up the podcast, let me think about

521
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:55,320
Speaker 2: what final question I want to ask. I have so

522
00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:59,400
Speaker 2: many in front of me, but for someone who's listening,

523
00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:03,200
Speaker 2: who might realize, you know, I think I've been following

524
00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:07,280
Speaker 2: a customized Jesus my whole life, and who even is

525
00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:11,960
Speaker 2: Jesus at this point, Like influencers are saying this, pastors

526
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:15,080
Speaker 2: are saying that, you know, false prophets are saying this,

527
00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:19,480
Speaker 2: the Internet's saying that. Like, there's so many opinions about

528
00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:22,880
Speaker 2: who Jesus is. What is the first step someone can

529
00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:27,440
Speaker 2: take to understanding and actually getting to know.

530
00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:29,960
Speaker 3: Who Jesus actually says that he is.

531
00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:32,920
Speaker 2: What can we do to unlearn what we need to unlearn,

532
00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:35,680
Speaker 2: but to also learn what we need to learn?

533
00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:39,000
Speaker 4: I I put a lot of emphasis in this book

534
00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:42,640
Speaker 4: on what I would call diagnostic questions, like asking yourself

535
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:46,280
Speaker 4: honest questions, because this listen, I don't I think very

536
00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:49,680
Speaker 4: few people who would be listening to this would purposely

537
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:54,200
Speaker 4: be saying, Okay, I'm gonna follow a Jesus that isn't really.

538
00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:55,680
Speaker 3: I want to misunderstand.

539
00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:56,600
Speaker 1: I want to do Yeah.

540
00:28:56,720 --> 00:29:01,840
Speaker 4: So we need help being objective and looking at ourselves honestly.

541
00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:03,920
Speaker 4: And so one of the things that I just would

542
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:06,880
Speaker 4: encourage people to do is is to lean into some

543
00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:09,080
Speaker 4: of these questions like does it I'll give you a

544
00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:10,720
Speaker 4: few examples, does Jesus.

545
00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:11,800
Speaker 1: Always seem to agree with you?

546
00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:15,480
Speaker 4: Like If it seems like Jesus always agrees with you,

547
00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:20,440
Speaker 4: then you know that's something to examine. Or if he

548
00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:23,440
Speaker 4: doesn't make you uncomfortable, then there's a good chance you

549
00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:26,200
Speaker 4: know you're talking more to a mirror than a Messiah.

550
00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:28,760
Speaker 4: Is the way I would say that, when's the last

551
00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:32,440
Speaker 4: time Jesus actually cost you something? Like it real specific

552
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:35,000
Speaker 4: with this, cost you money, cost you comfort, cost you

553
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:39,080
Speaker 4: a relationship, cost you a reputation. If he can't think

554
00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:42,360
Speaker 4: of the last time Jesus cost you something, then it's

555
00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:45,680
Speaker 4: hard to say you're following Jesus like he invited you

556
00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:48,000
Speaker 4: to in Luke nine, where he said, if you want

557
00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:50,640
Speaker 4: to follow me, take up across, deny yourself and follow

558
00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:53,960
Speaker 4: me that costs you something. You know, when's the last

559
00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:57,840
Speaker 4: time you forgave someone who didn't deserve it because you

560
00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:00,320
Speaker 4: knew your king had asked you to do that. Like,

561
00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:05,000
Speaker 4: those types of questions are convicting for all of us,

562
00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:08,640
Speaker 4: but they're also revealing. They just let us know. Okay,

563
00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:13,120
Speaker 4: I want to really dig into this. And so my

564
00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:15,520
Speaker 4: encouragement to your listeners is if I could go back

565
00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:18,680
Speaker 4: to the drawer and dress or metaphor, it's to just

566
00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:21,600
Speaker 4: open up some drawers. You know, pick an area of

567
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:25,040
Speaker 4: your life that maybe you've kept close to Jesus. Maybe

568
00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:29,040
Speaker 4: it's money or politics, or relationships, sexuality, whatever it is,

569
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:32,280
Speaker 4: and just say, Jesus, I invite you into this area

570
00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:37,320
Speaker 4: of my life and and open that up. And then

571
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:40,200
Speaker 4: the other part I would encourage people to do, just

572
00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:44,920
Speaker 4: quickly is to say, don't just read scripture privately, but

573
00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:48,000
Speaker 4: I mean, don't just read it alone. Get in a church,

574
00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:49,800
Speaker 4: Get in a community, get with a group of people.

575
00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:54,920
Speaker 4: There's something about reading scripture with others that helps us

576
00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:58,440
Speaker 4: see things more clearly. I think that's the way it's

577
00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:02,120
Speaker 4: designed to work. So invite Jesus into a drawer and

578
00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:06,200
Speaker 4: then connect with the few other people in examining who

579
00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:07,960
Speaker 4: he is so good.

580
00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:10,320
Speaker 2: I love the practical steps, and I know that you

581
00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:14,520
Speaker 2: list a whole other list of diagnostic questions toward the

582
00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:16,320
Speaker 2: end of the book that people can go through.

583
00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:19,160
Speaker 3: So y'all got to get that book. You need to

584
00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:19,520
Speaker 3: read it.

585
00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:21,760
Speaker 2: You need to go through it yourself, because even if

586
00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:24,800
Speaker 2: you are the most seasoned believer popped out the womb

587
00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:27,840
Speaker 2: praising Jesus, I think that there is something that you

588
00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:30,640
Speaker 2: can take away from it, not only for your own life,

589
00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:37,200
Speaker 2: but especially engaging in other conversations evangelistically, discipleship wise, we

590
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:41,280
Speaker 2: as those who are forerunners of the faith in our

591
00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:44,120
Speaker 2: families and friend groups and communities, I think that this

592
00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:46,440
Speaker 2: is something that can really equip you to even engage

593
00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:49,880
Speaker 2: in those conversations to help other people analyze in their

594
00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:54,480
Speaker 2: life where they might be viewing Jesus incorrectly and pursuing

595
00:31:55,360 --> 00:32:00,560
Speaker 2: a false Messiah, a false gospel. Even your book is

596
00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:03,040
Speaker 2: out now, where can people go get it? Can you

597
00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:05,320
Speaker 2: remind them the title so that they can type it

598
00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:06,120
Speaker 2: and get.

599
00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:06,800
Speaker 3: It wherever they want.

600
00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:09,840
Speaker 4: It's called the Missing Messiah and you can pretty much

601
00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:10,560
Speaker 4: get it anywhere.

602
00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:15,480
Speaker 5: Yeah, so these days everywhere, Yeah, you can get it

603
00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:19,640
Speaker 5: on your doorstep literally by tomorrow. Thank you again, Kyle

604
00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:21,880
Speaker 5: for writing the book and being faithful you and your

605
00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:25,040
Speaker 5: co author, But thank you also for taking time to

606
00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:28,040
Speaker 5: be here to just share everything with the people who

607
00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:29,280
Speaker 5: are listening to the podcast.

608
00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:31,440
Speaker 2: Is there anything else you want to plug? Can people

609
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:33,720
Speaker 2: follow you? Can people who are in Kentucky check out

610
00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:34,800
Speaker 2: your church? Like?

611
00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:37,400
Speaker 3: Where can people get connected with you?

612
00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:40,920
Speaker 4: You know, you can connect with me on social media.

613
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:43,200
Speaker 4: That's probably the easiest way to get connected to the

614
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:45,640
Speaker 4: book or to the church, or some messages or if

615
00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:47,680
Speaker 4: there's a way that I can pray for you would

616
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:49,960
Speaker 4: be honored to do that.

617
00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:50,400
Speaker 1: That would be.

618
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:51,640
Speaker 3: Good, amazing.

619
00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:53,760
Speaker 2: Well, I'll link everything in the show notes down below

620
00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:55,960
Speaker 2: for you guys, just so it's easy. You guys can

621
00:32:56,040 --> 00:32:58,840
Speaker 2: just scroll literally like one little thing and book click

622
00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:01,800
Speaker 2: at all to get his and to check out more resources.

623
00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:04,440
Speaker 2: But I love you, guys. I hope that this episode

624
00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:07,120
Speaker 2: really encouraged you. His book encouraged me, So I'm hoping

625
00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:10,520
Speaker 2: even our brief conversation on it was something that plugged

626
00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:13,640
Speaker 2: questions and planted questions in your mind to wrestle with

627
00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:17,680
Speaker 2: later and to bring to Jesus and walk.

628
00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:19,920
Speaker 3: Through it with him, But I love you guys.

629
00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:21,640
Speaker 2: I'll see you here next week for another episode of

630
00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:23,640
Speaker 2: the Bottom Beloved Podcast, and until then.

631
00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:26,400
Speaker 3: Keep on keeping on love you guys. Bye.

632
00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:31,200
Speaker 2: For more life giving, faith based podcast just like this one,

633
00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:34,440
Speaker 2: check out lifeaudio dot com, a proud partner of The

634
00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:37,360
Speaker 2: Botan Beloved podcast