1 00:00:02,820 --> 00:00:07,420 Speaker 1: It will pull from that memory, which will become the 2 00:00:07,460 --> 00:00:10,610 Speaker 1: way that we interpret or have a perception of what 3 00:00:10,730 --> 00:00:13,490 Speaker 1: is happening right now. That's where we can really work 4 00:00:13,670 --> 00:00:16,330 Speaker 1: on our fear. Fear is there because it can warn 5 00:00:16,370 --> 00:00:19,209 Speaker 1: us of danger, but it can also make us aware 6 00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:23,020 Speaker 1: of where some perceptions are that we need to tend 7 00:00:23,079 --> 00:00:23,480 Speaker 1: well to. 8 00:00:27,710 --> 00:00:30,100 Speaker 2: Welcome to the Faith Over Fear podcast, where we discuss 9 00:00:30,160 --> 00:00:33,800 Speaker 2: powerful truths to quiet anxiety and fear, big and small. 10 00:00:34,060 --> 00:00:38,100 Speaker 2: I'm your host, Jennifer Slattery, and I'm a recovering control 11 00:00:38,120 --> 00:00:42,270 Speaker 2: freak who maybe relapses on occasion. Maybe you can relate. 12 00:00:42,700 --> 00:00:46,270 Speaker 2: If so, I know you'll be encouraged by today's guest, 13 00:00:46,330 --> 00:00:50,750 Speaker 2: Lisa Turkhurst, a woman who endured significant emotional pain through 14 00:00:50,770 --> 00:00:54,390 Speaker 2: a series of events, including some of the very circumstances. 15 00:00:54,850 --> 00:01:03,420 Speaker 2: She spent a great deal of energy, energy, trying to avoid. Lisa, 16 00:01:03,480 --> 00:01:05,660 Speaker 2: thank you so much for joining us on the Faith 17 00:01:05,720 --> 00:01:06,580 Speaker 2: Over Fear show. 18 00:01:06,980 --> 00:01:09,500 Speaker 3: Absolutely. It's such an honor to be with you. Thank you. 19 00:01:10,580 --> 00:01:14,760 Speaker 2: Lisa Turkhurst is president of Proverbs 31 Ministries and the 20 00:01:14,860 --> 00:01:19,840 Speaker 2: author of more than 25 books, including the one we're 21 00:01:19,900 --> 00:01:23,540 Speaker 2: discussing today, Making Peace with What I Can't Control, Finding 22 00:01:23,560 --> 00:01:28,020 Speaker 2: Relief from the Exhaustion of Overthinking, Trying to Fix Others, 23 00:01:28,330 --> 00:01:30,520 Speaker 2: and Wanting to Figure. 24 00:01:30,270 --> 00:01:32,830 Speaker 3: It All Out. And Lisa, wow. So I knew a 25 00:01:32,890 --> 00:01:35,770 Speaker 3: little of your story just recently. Because, you know, I 26 00:01:35,810 --> 00:01:36,450 Speaker 3: have the internet. 27 00:01:36,550 --> 00:01:39,250 Speaker 2: But seeing it when you put it all in, like 28 00:01:39,290 --> 00:01:42,210 Speaker 2: there's a section where you're just laying it out. You 29 00:01:42,390 --> 00:01:46,690 Speaker 2: have been through it. In your book, you talked about 30 00:01:46,890 --> 00:01:49,570 Speaker 2: when you didn't like your life. For those who maybe 31 00:01:49,610 --> 00:01:52,800 Speaker 2: don't understand everything that you dealt with, you could share 32 00:01:52,810 --> 00:01:53,680 Speaker 2: a little of that season. 33 00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:54,780 Speaker 3: Yeah, sure thing. 34 00:01:55,220 --> 00:02:00,540 Speaker 1: I was busy running a ministry and just really enjoying 35 00:02:00,620 --> 00:02:02,000 Speaker 1: the season I was in. 36 00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:05,590 Speaker 3: Five grown kids. My youngest was. 37 00:02:05,510 --> 00:02:09,310 Speaker 1: Still at home, but my other kids were really doing 38 00:02:09,389 --> 00:02:12,169 Speaker 1: well and life seemed kind of predictable. Like I could 39 00:02:12,190 --> 00:02:14,530 Speaker 1: kind of look into my future and see that things 40 00:02:14,590 --> 00:02:16,260 Speaker 1: are going to turn out okay. And that was such 41 00:02:16,280 --> 00:02:19,160 Speaker 1: a good feeling to me. And then out of the blue, 42 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:22,340 Speaker 1: I found out my husband at the time was living 43 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:26,430 Speaker 1: a double life and it shocked me more than anything 44 00:02:26,620 --> 00:02:29,950 Speaker 1: else that has ever happened in my life. I was 45 00:02:29,990 --> 00:02:33,190 Speaker 1: having a really hard time even believing that this was 46 00:02:33,250 --> 00:02:36,370 Speaker 1: my reality. So I was very determined to keep the 47 00:02:36,389 --> 00:02:42,920 Speaker 1: marriage together. I worked really, really hard for close to 48 00:02:42,980 --> 00:02:47,310 Speaker 1: five years to make that happen. And it was separated 49 00:02:47,330 --> 00:02:50,410 Speaker 1: a lot of that time from my husband at the 50 00:02:50,450 --> 00:02:53,000 Speaker 1: time while we were trying to work on things. But 51 00:02:53,060 --> 00:02:55,579 Speaker 1: in the end, he did not choose me. At the 52 00:02:55,620 --> 00:02:59,930 Speaker 1: same time that I was going through all of that, 53 00:03:00,540 --> 00:03:03,570 Speaker 1: I had an emergency colon surgery where they had to 54 00:03:03,610 --> 00:03:04,790 Speaker 1: remove most of my colon. 55 00:03:04,830 --> 00:03:07,770 Speaker 3: And I really believe it's because of the emotional trauma 56 00:03:07,850 --> 00:03:09,010 Speaker 3: and stress that I was in. 57 00:03:09,230 --> 00:03:12,530 Speaker 1: The doctors even told me that there was something significant 58 00:03:12,570 --> 00:03:15,380 Speaker 1: that had happened to me because what they saw inside 59 00:03:15,460 --> 00:03:17,720 Speaker 1: was very unusual. Most people never get to see a 60 00:03:17,760 --> 00:03:20,139 Speaker 1: picture of what emotional abuse does. 61 00:03:19,940 --> 00:03:21,980 Speaker 3: To a person, but I got to see pictures of. 62 00:03:21,980 --> 00:03:24,340 Speaker 1: What it did to my insides and it was terrifying. 63 00:03:24,720 --> 00:03:28,930 Speaker 1: I barely got through that surgery. And one year later, 64 00:03:28,950 --> 00:03:32,470 Speaker 1: I was diagnosed with breast cancer and walking through breast 65 00:03:32,510 --> 00:03:37,480 Speaker 1: cancer in a season where you're also in emotional trauma from, 66 00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:39,770 Speaker 1: you know, is my marriage going to stay together? Is 67 00:03:39,810 --> 00:03:42,470 Speaker 1: it not going to stay together? That was really, really hard. 68 00:03:42,550 --> 00:03:45,250 Speaker 1: So a lot of hard things happened and it seemed 69 00:03:45,290 --> 00:03:47,170 Speaker 1: to be back to back to back to back. And 70 00:03:47,330 --> 00:03:51,700 Speaker 1: so those years of trauma really sent me into this 71 00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:55,910 Speaker 1: place of being afraid of of everything, like when is 72 00:03:55,950 --> 00:03:58,930 Speaker 1: the next horrible thing gonna happen? And also jumping to 73 00:03:58,950 --> 00:04:01,570 Speaker 1: worst case scenarios, it also set off a pattern in 74 00:04:01,610 --> 00:04:04,630 Speaker 1: my life where I was overthinking. 75 00:04:04,190 --> 00:04:06,470 Speaker 3: Everything, just like the subtitle of my book. 76 00:04:06,790 --> 00:04:10,530 Speaker 1: I was overthinking things, I was trying to fix other people, 77 00:04:10,780 --> 00:04:13,540 Speaker 1: and I was trying to figure everything out, not just 78 00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:17,860 Speaker 1: for myself, but for everyone. The level of anxiety and 79 00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:22,750 Speaker 1: exhaustion and frustration really turned me into someone that I 80 00:04:22,790 --> 00:04:26,450 Speaker 1: didn't even recognize. It was not my normal self. Normally, 81 00:04:26,529 --> 00:04:31,070 Speaker 1: I'm very lighthearted, happy, go lucky. And a lot of 82 00:04:31,130 --> 00:04:34,919 Speaker 1: those bright lights of who I am kind of dimmed. 83 00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:37,919 Speaker 1: And when I kind of came to the realization, like 84 00:04:38,040 --> 00:04:42,559 Speaker 1: something has to be done, As I dug around into 85 00:04:42,660 --> 00:04:47,610 Speaker 1: my emotional reality, I figured out that control had become 86 00:04:47,750 --> 00:04:50,890 Speaker 1: something that, though I'm not a naturally controlling person. 87 00:04:51,050 --> 00:04:53,510 Speaker 3: It had become almost like a coping mechanism for me. 88 00:04:54,440 --> 00:04:56,780 Speaker 2: I actually think that's a really important point to make 89 00:04:56,860 --> 00:05:00,020 Speaker 2: because I wonder if some people who are in a 90 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:03,200 Speaker 2: similar situation and they start behaving in ways they don't 91 00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:06,210 Speaker 2: recognize and then they can add shame to that. 92 00:05:06,310 --> 00:05:07,529 Speaker 3: Did you wrestle with that? 93 00:05:07,630 --> 00:05:10,690 Speaker 1: Yes, I would say when I first found out, I 94 00:05:10,930 --> 00:05:14,750 Speaker 1: carried a lot of shame because it's my natural tendency 95 00:05:14,830 --> 00:05:17,680 Speaker 1: to draw a straight line from something falling apart to 96 00:05:17,740 --> 00:05:18,260 Speaker 1: what did. 97 00:05:18,240 --> 00:05:18,880 Speaker 3: I do wrong? 98 00:05:19,460 --> 00:05:22,870 Speaker 1: And also I was in a situation where where I 99 00:05:22,890 --> 00:05:25,750 Speaker 1: was being told that I was crazy, that I was 100 00:05:25,770 --> 00:05:28,770 Speaker 1: being told that this was my fault. And there was 101 00:05:28,790 --> 00:05:31,010 Speaker 1: a lot of gaslighting that was happening. 102 00:05:31,610 --> 00:05:34,220 Speaker 3: And so that's why it was so crucial for me. 103 00:05:34,180 --> 00:05:37,940 Speaker 1: To go and get with a really good Christian therapist 104 00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:40,340 Speaker 1: who could take a look at all of the facts 105 00:05:40,880 --> 00:05:44,440 Speaker 1: and assure me that there was nothing I could have 106 00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:48,360 Speaker 1: done to prevent this. This actually wasn't about me. you know, 107 00:05:48,380 --> 00:05:52,000 Speaker 1: it's very hard not to personalize these types of situations, 108 00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:55,790 Speaker 1: but this was not about me. And on top of that, 109 00:05:55,810 --> 00:05:58,610 Speaker 1: I wasn't crazy. And he assured me over and over 110 00:05:58,630 --> 00:06:00,470 Speaker 1: and over. And that's why I always tell women, if 111 00:06:00,510 --> 00:06:05,270 Speaker 1: you're in a really deeply complicated emotional situation, don't go 112 00:06:05,410 --> 00:06:07,630 Speaker 1: at it alone because we can get lost in our 113 00:06:07,730 --> 00:06:11,930 Speaker 1: own heads and start believing lies that simply will not help. 114 00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:13,240 Speaker 3: Us heal in the right direction. 115 00:06:13,260 --> 00:06:18,400 Speaker 1: And so, yeah, I think, as I became assured that 116 00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:22,589 Speaker 1: this wasn't my fault. Now look, everybody, when there's marriage issues, 117 00:06:22,750 --> 00:06:26,370 Speaker 1: everybody contributes something. But when I say it's not my fault, 118 00:06:26,470 --> 00:06:30,070 Speaker 1: there was literally nothing that I could have done to 119 00:06:30,130 --> 00:06:33,240 Speaker 1: prevent what happened because there was some brokenness that had 120 00:06:33,300 --> 00:06:36,340 Speaker 1: nothing to do with me that really fed some of 121 00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:40,200 Speaker 1: what was happening. Um, And it wasn't my brokenness. So 122 00:06:40,300 --> 00:06:42,460 Speaker 1: I couldn't work on it. I couldn't fix it. But boy, 123 00:06:42,500 --> 00:06:45,380 Speaker 1: did I try. And so I think I started to 124 00:06:45,460 --> 00:06:50,839 Speaker 1: recognize that for me, control was not about being power hungry. 125 00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:53,920 Speaker 1: I would always say I'm not controlling because I don't 126 00:06:54,140 --> 00:06:56,180 Speaker 1: need to be large and in charge. I don't need 127 00:06:56,220 --> 00:06:58,490 Speaker 1: to dictate where people go. And if we get together 128 00:06:58,550 --> 00:07:00,710 Speaker 1: as friends, I'll let you choose the restaurant and what 129 00:07:00,750 --> 00:07:04,630 Speaker 1: we do. But for me, it's because I'm a responsible person, 130 00:07:04,810 --> 00:07:08,960 Speaker 1: a capable person and a caring person. that those things 131 00:07:09,060 --> 00:07:12,120 Speaker 1: taken a little too far start to become controlling. 132 00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:14,240 Speaker 3: And so I just want to say. 133 00:07:14,020 --> 00:07:16,800 Speaker 1: There's probably a lot of us that are walking around 134 00:07:17,320 --> 00:07:20,900 Speaker 1: never understanding that control is actually the issue that we're 135 00:07:20,940 --> 00:07:25,300 Speaker 1: dealing with. We just see that we're highly responsible, highly capable, 136 00:07:25,520 --> 00:07:28,940 Speaker 1: and very caring, and we don't see how taken too 137 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:30,610 Speaker 1: far that can turn into control. 138 00:07:30,990 --> 00:07:32,470 Speaker 3: Yeah, that sounds really hard. 139 00:07:32,630 --> 00:07:36,770 Speaker 2: And I'm also thinking, so for our listeners, you're now remarried, 140 00:07:36,810 --> 00:07:39,490 Speaker 2: your ministry lasted, and God is using your story. So 141 00:07:39,510 --> 00:07:41,110 Speaker 2: I just want to get that little bit of hope 142 00:07:41,170 --> 00:07:44,190 Speaker 2: in there for those who are really, really struggling. And 143 00:07:44,250 --> 00:07:48,540 Speaker 2: with that in mind, how do you move forward when 144 00:07:48,640 --> 00:07:52,340 Speaker 2: you've had decades of the rug being pulled out of you? 145 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:55,220 Speaker 2: So how do you move forward without constantly checking your footing? 146 00:07:55,420 --> 00:07:57,920 Speaker 3: Is this really stable? Is my perspective correct? 147 00:07:58,870 --> 00:08:03,930 Speaker 1: Well, again, you know, surrounding yourself with really solid friendships 148 00:08:04,130 --> 00:08:06,850 Speaker 1: that have access to the. 149 00:08:06,770 --> 00:08:08,410 Speaker 3: Inside view of your life. 150 00:08:08,530 --> 00:08:11,250 Speaker 1: I think that's really important for me. It was just 151 00:08:11,450 --> 00:08:13,310 Speaker 1: absolutely crucial when I was going through this that I 152 00:08:13,350 --> 00:08:16,410 Speaker 1: had a personal board of directors, which sounds kind of funny. 153 00:08:16,490 --> 00:08:18,800 Speaker 1: It wasn't a ministry board of directors. It was personal 154 00:08:18,840 --> 00:08:19,860 Speaker 1: board of directors. 155 00:08:20,220 --> 00:08:20,920 Speaker 3: It included. 156 00:08:21,520 --> 00:08:24,960 Speaker 1: you know, a couple of people that I do ministry with. 157 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:27,440 Speaker 1: One of them was Dr. Joel Mutamali, who is an 158 00:08:27,460 --> 00:08:31,190 Speaker 1: incredible theologian. And then my personal therapist, Jim Kress, and 159 00:08:31,250 --> 00:08:34,550 Speaker 1: then three best friends that really walked every step of 160 00:08:34,630 --> 00:08:37,390 Speaker 1: this with me. And they are my personal board of directors. 161 00:08:37,670 --> 00:08:43,140 Speaker 1: And so moving forward, And not getting tripped up constantly 162 00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:46,380 Speaker 1: is kind of an unrealistic expectation. When you've been through 163 00:08:46,420 --> 00:08:48,920 Speaker 1: such a difficult trauma, you are going to trip up. 164 00:08:49,020 --> 00:08:52,280 Speaker 1: But the secret is you've got to keep a finger 165 00:08:52,420 --> 00:08:56,740 Speaker 1: on the pulse of each time that something trips you up. 166 00:08:56,820 --> 00:08:59,360 Speaker 1: You get triggered in your pain because that's sending you 167 00:08:59,400 --> 00:09:02,020 Speaker 1: a message of another place that needs to be healed. 168 00:09:02,210 --> 00:09:04,530 Speaker 1: So rather than taking a step back and just saying, 169 00:09:04,570 --> 00:09:07,130 Speaker 1: I'm never going to get over this, which for a 170 00:09:07,170 --> 00:09:09,940 Speaker 1: while I felt that way. I felt like I'm never 171 00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:10,640 Speaker 1: going to get over this. 172 00:09:10,760 --> 00:09:12,439 Speaker 3: I'm never going to be able to function like a 173 00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:13,439 Speaker 3: normal person again. 174 00:09:13,679 --> 00:09:16,700 Speaker 1: But when I started to see the gift of these triggers, 175 00:09:17,260 --> 00:09:20,500 Speaker 1: that they were making me aware of another place of healing. 176 00:09:20,660 --> 00:09:23,660 Speaker 1: And so just take it one bite size thing at 177 00:09:23,700 --> 00:09:25,770 Speaker 1: a time, one trigger at a time and. 178 00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:27,110 Speaker 3: Tend well to that healing. 179 00:09:27,670 --> 00:09:32,070 Speaker 1: And slowly but surely, building enough of those healing experiences 180 00:09:32,150 --> 00:09:34,470 Speaker 1: got me pointed in the right direction. Now, do I 181 00:09:34,550 --> 00:09:38,300 Speaker 1: still sometimes struggle? You know, I'm 10 years into this thing. 182 00:09:38,500 --> 00:09:41,260 Speaker 1: And so, yeah, of course, every now and then I will. 183 00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:45,260 Speaker 1: But time has really helped. But I don't believe time 184 00:09:45,300 --> 00:09:47,690 Speaker 1: heals all wounds. I think it's what we plant in 185 00:09:47,710 --> 00:09:50,670 Speaker 1: the course of that time that determines whether we move 186 00:09:50,690 --> 00:09:51,429 Speaker 1: forward or not. 187 00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:54,939 Speaker 2: Wow, those are powerful words. We're going to actually take 188 00:09:54,960 --> 00:09:58,130 Speaker 2: a quick break to hear from our sponsors. When we return, 189 00:09:58,309 --> 00:10:00,890 Speaker 2: I want to hear how we can begin. to, so 190 00:10:01,270 --> 00:10:03,760 Speaker 2: you talk about recognizing your triggers and then using that 191 00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:07,480 Speaker 2: to gauge, am I leaning into an unhealthy response? 192 00:10:07,700 --> 00:10:10,819 Speaker 3: Am I being responsible? So we'll be back in just 193 00:10:10,840 --> 00:10:20,260 Speaker 3: a moment. And we're back. 194 00:10:20,710 --> 00:10:25,030 Speaker 2: So before the break, Lisa, we heard how our experiences 195 00:10:25,070 --> 00:10:27,790 Speaker 2: can actually change the way we behave so that we're 196 00:10:27,809 --> 00:10:30,770 Speaker 2: behaving in ways that are not authentic to our true 197 00:10:30,790 --> 00:10:35,410 Speaker 2: selves and how our mind can get really muddy in that. 198 00:10:35,970 --> 00:10:38,670 Speaker 2: So how can we moving forward if we're like, okay, 199 00:10:38,850 --> 00:10:42,709 Speaker 2: I want to begin to change this ingrained survival behavior, 200 00:10:42,790 --> 00:10:46,900 Speaker 2: learn survival behavior. I still want to be responsible, but 201 00:10:46,940 --> 00:10:49,400 Speaker 2: I don't want to overstep into control. So how can 202 00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:54,200 Speaker 2: we begin to recognize when we're veering in an unhealthy direction? 203 00:10:54,920 --> 00:10:59,040 Speaker 1: Well, here's what's tricky about control is it sneaks in 204 00:10:59,100 --> 00:11:00,510 Speaker 1: before we even realize it. 205 00:11:00,620 --> 00:11:03,380 Speaker 3: So there's one big word that I want us to 206 00:11:03,420 --> 00:11:06,330 Speaker 3: think about, and the word is outcome. You see, there's 207 00:11:06,370 --> 00:11:07,110 Speaker 3: a paper. 208 00:11:06,830 --> 00:11:11,790 Speaker 1: Thin line between being responsible, being capable, and being caring. 209 00:11:12,230 --> 00:11:15,710 Speaker 1: There's a paper thin line between those good attributes to 210 00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:19,080 Speaker 1: being controlling. And here's how you can tell the difference. 211 00:11:19,700 --> 00:11:23,220 Speaker 1: If I'm in responsibility mode, then I'm going to do 212 00:11:23,420 --> 00:11:27,240 Speaker 1: all that I can do to manage well what is 213 00:11:27,300 --> 00:11:31,230 Speaker 1: within my power to manage. But regarding the ultimate outcome, 214 00:11:31,530 --> 00:11:33,970 Speaker 1: I'm going to have to learn to trust the Lord. 215 00:11:35,090 --> 00:11:38,110 Speaker 1: If I'm in control mode, I'm going to do everything 216 00:11:38,190 --> 00:11:41,080 Speaker 1: I can to to manage what is within my ability 217 00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:43,860 Speaker 1: to manage. And I will step over and try to 218 00:11:43,900 --> 00:11:47,020 Speaker 1: manage things that are outside of my control. And regarding 219 00:11:47,090 --> 00:11:50,110 Speaker 1: the outcome, I'm only willing to accept the outcome that 220 00:11:50,270 --> 00:11:51,270 Speaker 1: I think is best. 221 00:11:51,929 --> 00:11:55,440 Speaker 3: And so you see that word outcome is really important. Yeah. 222 00:11:55,640 --> 00:11:57,860 Speaker 2: As you're talking, I'm processing your story and really you 223 00:11:57,900 --> 00:12:01,200 Speaker 2: were hit by even not even talking about the multiple 224 00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:03,850 Speaker 2: traumas you experienced, but then like caring for your kids 225 00:12:03,900 --> 00:12:05,710 Speaker 2: and how are they responding? And then you've got the 226 00:12:05,750 --> 00:12:08,130 Speaker 2: public and you got the ministry and then you've got 227 00:12:08,170 --> 00:12:11,290 Speaker 2: the wrestling with God, which I'm wondering, there was a 228 00:12:11,350 --> 00:12:15,510 Speaker 2: time when you really struggled to trust God, correct? 229 00:12:16,550 --> 00:12:18,329 Speaker 3: Absolutely. Absolutely. 230 00:12:18,530 --> 00:12:21,309 Speaker 1: You know, I think it's, if you're in a human 231 00:12:21,350 --> 00:12:27,670 Speaker 1: to human relationship, and someone has the ability to prevent 232 00:12:27,770 --> 00:12:31,550 Speaker 1: something horrible from happening to you and they choose not to, 233 00:12:31,550 --> 00:12:34,830 Speaker 1: then that human to human relationship is going to be 234 00:12:34,850 --> 00:12:37,729 Speaker 1: damaged just because you're not going to be able to 235 00:12:37,809 --> 00:12:40,330 Speaker 1: understand if this person could help you and they didn't 236 00:12:40,390 --> 00:12:42,650 Speaker 1: help you, why they didn't do what you would have 237 00:12:42,690 --> 00:12:47,390 Speaker 1: done for them. Right. And so though God is outside 238 00:12:47,410 --> 00:12:52,199 Speaker 1: of a human relationship, relationship. Obviously God knows all and 239 00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:55,460 Speaker 1: is in all, but that became part of the problem 240 00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:59,679 Speaker 1: because I knew that God is capable of everything. I 241 00:12:59,780 --> 00:13:02,990 Speaker 1: knew God had the power to change what was happening. 242 00:13:03,190 --> 00:13:05,750 Speaker 1: And when he didn't, and when things didn't go the 243 00:13:05,809 --> 00:13:08,890 Speaker 1: way that I assumed a good God would, would make 244 00:13:08,929 --> 00:13:11,570 Speaker 1: them go, it really messed me up. 245 00:13:11,790 --> 00:13:13,730 Speaker 3: It's not that I lost faith in God. 246 00:13:13,750 --> 00:13:16,470 Speaker 1: I still believe God was good, but I questioned why 247 00:13:16,550 --> 00:13:18,480 Speaker 1: isn't he being good to me in this? 248 00:13:19,510 --> 00:13:22,210 Speaker 3: And, you know, what I came to realize is that 249 00:13:22,550 --> 00:13:23,950 Speaker 3: God is good all the. 250 00:13:23,890 --> 00:13:28,390 Speaker 1: Time, but his definition of good might be different than ours. 251 00:13:28,750 --> 00:13:30,890 Speaker 1: And we will have to wrestle with that. There's no 252 00:13:30,970 --> 00:13:33,820 Speaker 1: way around it. We're not ever going to, or at 253 00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:35,839 Speaker 1: least me, I'll just put this on me. I'm never 254 00:13:35,860 --> 00:13:39,420 Speaker 1: going to have something really awful happen and go, what in. 255 00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:43,140 Speaker 3: The world, God, like why this? Why now? Why me? 256 00:13:43,260 --> 00:13:44,720 Speaker 3: Why does it have to go on this long? 257 00:13:44,780 --> 00:13:46,380 Speaker 1: Why does it have to be this hard? And why 258 00:13:46,420 --> 00:13:48,179 Speaker 1: does it have to end this way? And I think 259 00:13:48,220 --> 00:13:50,750 Speaker 1: that's normal. And I think God expects that we will 260 00:13:50,830 --> 00:13:52,790 Speaker 1: wrestle with that. But the secret is we have to 261 00:13:52,890 --> 00:13:55,470 Speaker 1: wrestle well. And what I mean by that is have 262 00:13:55,710 --> 00:13:58,870 Speaker 1: all the hard questions. Ask all the things that you 263 00:13:58,890 --> 00:14:01,330 Speaker 1: want to ask. Cry, pitch a fit, do what you 264 00:14:01,370 --> 00:14:03,740 Speaker 1: need to do. But at the end of the day, 265 00:14:03,860 --> 00:14:07,939 Speaker 1: to wrestle well means never let go of the reality 266 00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:09,559 Speaker 1: and the hope that. 267 00:14:09,700 --> 00:14:10,640 Speaker 3: God is good. 268 00:14:11,179 --> 00:14:13,420 Speaker 1: It just may not feel good, seem good or look 269 00:14:13,460 --> 00:14:16,580 Speaker 1: good right now. But he is pointing your life in 270 00:14:16,620 --> 00:14:18,000 Speaker 1: a direction of eventual good. 271 00:14:18,160 --> 00:14:19,830 Speaker 3: I could not see it at the time. 272 00:14:20,050 --> 00:14:23,710 Speaker 1: But now when I look back, I still have parts 273 00:14:23,750 --> 00:14:26,170 Speaker 1: of my story I don't like and I wish were different. 274 00:14:26,830 --> 00:14:30,369 Speaker 1: But I have the advantage now of seeing some of 275 00:14:30,390 --> 00:14:31,910 Speaker 1: the ways God was moving. 276 00:14:32,190 --> 00:14:34,470 Speaker 3: And I'm actually grateful that he. 277 00:14:34,510 --> 00:14:37,460 Speaker 1: Didn't go with the outcome that I begged him to 278 00:14:37,500 --> 00:14:37,830 Speaker 1: go in. 279 00:14:38,350 --> 00:14:39,550 Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I'm curious. 280 00:14:40,470 --> 00:14:43,730 Speaker 2: So in that space, we're talking about relinquishing control. And 281 00:14:43,750 --> 00:14:46,070 Speaker 2: the only way we can realistically do that is if 282 00:14:46,110 --> 00:14:48,390 Speaker 2: we trust God to take the control. And then if 283 00:14:48,430 --> 00:14:51,590 Speaker 2: we have these doubts and these questions and these pain points, 284 00:14:52,730 --> 00:14:56,530 Speaker 2: what do you think helped you persevere instead of just like, 285 00:14:56,890 --> 00:14:57,790 Speaker 2: this is all too much. 286 00:14:57,910 --> 00:14:58,600 Speaker 3: I'm walking away. 287 00:14:58,650 --> 00:15:03,740 Speaker 2: I'm done. What helped you stay pursuing God through the 288 00:15:03,800 --> 00:15:05,940 Speaker 2: pain and the fear and all of the stuff? 289 00:15:06,810 --> 00:15:10,380 Speaker 1: Well, because everything else that I was trying to do 290 00:15:10,480 --> 00:15:13,260 Speaker 1: to fix it on my own wasn't working. So I 291 00:15:13,280 --> 00:15:14,880 Speaker 1: had to kind of come to the end of my 292 00:15:15,020 --> 00:15:19,020 Speaker 1: efforts and say, what other choice do I have? You know, 293 00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:21,560 Speaker 1: I mean, Jesus says in this world, you will have trouble, 294 00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:24,540 Speaker 1: but take heart. I have overcome the world. Nothing else 295 00:15:24,620 --> 00:15:28,290 Speaker 1: is overcoming like Jesus is overcoming, you know? And so 296 00:15:28,330 --> 00:15:30,810 Speaker 1: I kind of got to this place where I was like, okay, 297 00:15:31,090 --> 00:15:34,350 Speaker 1: what other choice do I have? Because I had really 298 00:15:34,490 --> 00:15:35,190 Speaker 1: exhausted everything. 299 00:15:35,590 --> 00:15:39,810 Speaker 3: All of my efforts to control, to fix, to overthink, to. 300 00:15:39,830 --> 00:15:44,030 Speaker 1: Fixate, to try to make things happen in a different way. 301 00:15:44,390 --> 00:15:47,550 Speaker 1: And I just realized at the end of the day, 302 00:15:47,580 --> 00:15:52,400 Speaker 1: the only choice that I have that has the potential 303 00:15:52,520 --> 00:15:56,180 Speaker 1: to lead to the peace that I am craving is 304 00:15:56,220 --> 00:16:00,120 Speaker 1: for me to learn to release what it is that's 305 00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:04,740 Speaker 1: completely out of my control into the capable hands of God. 306 00:16:05,370 --> 00:16:09,290 Speaker 1: And the harder part of that was then trust that 307 00:16:09,450 --> 00:16:12,930 Speaker 1: even when he allows things that hurt or if things 308 00:16:12,970 --> 00:16:15,930 Speaker 1: get worse or whatever, that he. 309 00:16:15,910 --> 00:16:17,870 Speaker 3: Hasn't forgotten me. He hasn't left me. 310 00:16:18,950 --> 00:16:22,330 Speaker 1: He doesn't have a heart to wrong me. And so, yeah, 311 00:16:22,450 --> 00:16:25,110 Speaker 1: I mean, it's a very messy process. It's not something 312 00:16:25,150 --> 00:16:29,610 Speaker 1: that's like you reach this this place. And now it's like, oh, 313 00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:32,550 Speaker 1: I always do this perfectly. No, there are situations just 314 00:16:32,630 --> 00:16:35,250 Speaker 1: this week where I've had to like go through the 315 00:16:35,290 --> 00:16:37,210 Speaker 1: cycle again of like, why me? 316 00:16:37,270 --> 00:16:40,090 Speaker 3: Why now? Why this? This is so hard. This is unfair. 317 00:16:40,130 --> 00:16:42,510 Speaker 3: This is not right. This is unjust. 318 00:16:42,650 --> 00:16:46,990 Speaker 1: I think because I've seen God bring me through other 319 00:16:47,090 --> 00:16:50,030 Speaker 1: hard times when I can't understand what he's doing right now, 320 00:16:50,650 --> 00:16:54,620 Speaker 1: I make my brain trace the faithfulness that he has 321 00:16:54,680 --> 00:16:57,640 Speaker 1: demonstrated in the past that I can see. And I 322 00:16:57,700 --> 00:17:00,140 Speaker 1: grab a hold of that and remind myself, the same 323 00:17:00,180 --> 00:17:02,060 Speaker 1: God that did that is the same God that will 324 00:17:02,100 --> 00:17:03,850 Speaker 1: handle this. Wow. 325 00:17:04,290 --> 00:17:04,590 Speaker 3: Yeah. 326 00:17:05,190 --> 00:17:08,640 Speaker 2: So let's talk about So we're relinquishing control, but then 327 00:17:08,680 --> 00:17:12,080 Speaker 2: there's the element of everybody else maybe thinks we need 328 00:17:12,100 --> 00:17:15,879 Speaker 2: to maintain control because either it works for them or 329 00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:20,080 Speaker 2: they interpret our situation differently. So how can we separate 330 00:17:20,140 --> 00:17:22,990 Speaker 2: that out between, I don't want to bail on my 331 00:17:23,050 --> 00:17:26,729 Speaker 2: people because you've got kids. You had, I'm sure you're deeply, 332 00:17:26,970 --> 00:17:31,990 Speaker 2: deeply feel a sense of responsibility for your followers, for 333 00:17:32,010 --> 00:17:34,070 Speaker 2: the people who are learning about Jesus through you. 334 00:17:34,090 --> 00:17:35,540 Speaker 3: So how do you separate that out? 335 00:17:35,970 --> 00:17:38,369 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I mean, we can continue to be very 336 00:17:38,450 --> 00:17:42,429 Speaker 1: responsible at the same time being honest that we're human, 337 00:17:42,450 --> 00:17:43,850 Speaker 1: so we have limitations. 338 00:17:44,070 --> 00:17:45,690 Speaker 3: And that's where boundaries come in. 339 00:17:45,830 --> 00:17:50,129 Speaker 1: It's not wrong to be overly caring sometimes. You just 340 00:17:50,150 --> 00:17:52,129 Speaker 1: don't want that to be the pattern of your life. 341 00:17:52,580 --> 00:17:56,379 Speaker 1: It's not wrong to step in and rescue someone if, 342 00:17:57,040 --> 00:18:01,219 Speaker 1: you know, this is a temporary situation, not an ongoing habit. 343 00:18:01,550 --> 00:18:04,550 Speaker 1: There's a big difference between mistakes that people make and 344 00:18:04,670 --> 00:18:07,730 Speaker 1: patterns that they've established in their life. So if somebody's 345 00:18:07,770 --> 00:18:10,380 Speaker 1: made a mistake and you have the ability to help them, 346 00:18:10,540 --> 00:18:11,560 Speaker 1: step in and help them. 347 00:18:11,859 --> 00:18:13,820 Speaker 3: But if it becomes a pattern. 348 00:18:13,340 --> 00:18:16,460 Speaker 1: Where you are the rescuer over and over and over, 349 00:18:16,840 --> 00:18:21,090 Speaker 1: then I would caution you to say, that's not healthy. 350 00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:22,550 Speaker 3: That's not sustainable. 351 00:18:23,190 --> 00:18:26,010 Speaker 1: And, you know, the people that we love, they do 352 00:18:26,109 --> 00:18:29,679 Speaker 1: have a savior, but it's not us. And so sometimes 353 00:18:29,740 --> 00:18:32,550 Speaker 1: if we continue to step in and try to rescue 354 00:18:32,609 --> 00:18:35,270 Speaker 1: and try to save and try to prevent someone we 355 00:18:35,310 --> 00:18:38,889 Speaker 1: love from hitting rock bottom, then we're actually getting in 356 00:18:38,930 --> 00:18:42,290 Speaker 1: the way of the consequences that God may have established 357 00:18:42,330 --> 00:18:44,450 Speaker 1: to help draw their heart back to him. 358 00:18:45,270 --> 00:18:48,050 Speaker 3: And so that's where we have to be really cautious. But, 359 00:18:48,410 --> 00:18:48,800 Speaker 3: you know, I. 360 00:18:49,980 --> 00:18:53,200 Speaker 1: I am on a journey of learning that I cannot 361 00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:56,040 Speaker 1: manage other people's narratives. There are times I'm going to 362 00:18:56,060 --> 00:18:57,800 Speaker 1: have to tell people no, and they may have a 363 00:18:57,859 --> 00:19:00,300 Speaker 1: negative narrative about me. And I have to learn to 364 00:19:00,340 --> 00:19:06,679 Speaker 1: accept that. I cannot manage people's choices. I cannot manage 365 00:19:06,940 --> 00:19:11,419 Speaker 1: people's thought processes. I cannot manage what they do or 366 00:19:11,460 --> 00:19:14,580 Speaker 1: don't do in their life. But where I can spend 367 00:19:14,619 --> 00:19:17,689 Speaker 1: my energy and what's much more productive is is I 368 00:19:17,750 --> 00:19:20,640 Speaker 1: can manage me. And the one type of control God 369 00:19:20,700 --> 00:19:24,000 Speaker 1: tells us to have is self-control. And oftentimes if we're 370 00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:27,240 Speaker 1: stepping in trying to control someone else, you know, the 371 00:19:27,290 --> 00:19:31,050 Speaker 1: more we control and the more they don't cooperate, the 372 00:19:31,130 --> 00:19:34,530 Speaker 1: more Out of control the situation is, and then we 373 00:19:34,609 --> 00:19:37,440 Speaker 1: lose control and we become part of the problem. 374 00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:39,060 Speaker 3: We become part of the chaos. 375 00:19:39,220 --> 00:19:42,660 Speaker 1: And so just because someone invites you to a drama, 376 00:19:42,700 --> 00:19:44,459 Speaker 1: you don't have to go and you don't have to 377 00:19:44,530 --> 00:19:46,530 Speaker 1: show up. You know, you don't have to participate in 378 00:19:46,590 --> 00:19:48,870 Speaker 1: every drama that you're invited to. That's what my therapist 379 00:19:48,890 --> 00:19:49,429 Speaker 1: has taught me. 380 00:19:49,810 --> 00:19:51,320 Speaker 3: Strange. from Jim Kress. Thank you. 381 00:19:51,940 --> 00:19:54,740 Speaker 1: But I think those things are good principles to remember. 382 00:19:54,840 --> 00:19:58,230 Speaker 1: So I'm not at all saying you can't ever rescue. 383 00:19:58,250 --> 00:20:00,850 Speaker 1: You can't ever help. You can't ever hyper extend your 384 00:20:00,890 --> 00:20:03,230 Speaker 1: responsibility or hyper extend your capability. 385 00:20:03,250 --> 00:20:05,090 Speaker 3: That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying just don't let 386 00:20:05,130 --> 00:20:06,130 Speaker 3: that become a pattern. 387 00:20:14,010 --> 00:20:17,290 Speaker 2: Sometimes I think in Christendom, we think like, oh, we 388 00:20:17,330 --> 00:20:20,129 Speaker 2: make a decision and everything is great and we're going to. 389 00:20:20,109 --> 00:20:21,270 Speaker 3: Live out the truth. 390 00:20:21,510 --> 00:20:25,080 Speaker 2: How long did it take you as you're wrestling through? 391 00:20:25,100 --> 00:20:29,300 Speaker 2: I mean, your sense of reality was messed with. And 392 00:20:29,420 --> 00:20:31,600 Speaker 2: so how long did it take you to begin to 393 00:20:31,780 --> 00:20:35,760 Speaker 2: recognize the pattern, but then also decide, is it something 394 00:20:35,820 --> 00:20:38,980 Speaker 2: you want to make a change about? Like that seems 395 00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:40,520 Speaker 2: excruciatingly hard. 396 00:20:40,990 --> 00:20:44,510 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think the biggest step in my healing, someone 397 00:20:44,550 --> 00:20:49,400 Speaker 1: recently asked me, like, Lisa, what was the biggest choice 398 00:20:49,540 --> 00:20:54,580 Speaker 1: that you made that got you to a much better place? 399 00:20:55,300 --> 00:20:57,580 Speaker 3: And that choice is acceptance. 400 00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:01,460 Speaker 1: You see, mental health is a commitment to reality at 401 00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:02,290 Speaker 1: all costs. 402 00:21:02,940 --> 00:21:05,860 Speaker 3: Until we accept what is our reality. 403 00:21:06,140 --> 00:21:08,399 Speaker 1: Now, that doesn't mean we curl up in a ball 404 00:21:08,500 --> 00:21:10,320 Speaker 1: and become a victim of our circumstances. 405 00:21:10,380 --> 00:21:11,000 Speaker 3: That's not it. 406 00:21:11,220 --> 00:21:15,020 Speaker 1: It means that we choose to say, yep, that is 407 00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:17,980 Speaker 1: my reality. Now, what am I gonna do? How am 408 00:21:18,020 --> 00:21:20,760 Speaker 1: I gonna respond? How am I gonna pick up the 409 00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:21,700 Speaker 1: pieces from here? 410 00:21:22,180 --> 00:21:24,820 Speaker 3: How am I gonna move on? But if I stay in, 411 00:21:24,940 --> 00:21:28,180 Speaker 3: why did this happen? And, you know, like, why. 412 00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:30,419 Speaker 1: Didn't they do this? And why didn't they do that? And, 413 00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:32,480 Speaker 1: you know, how could they have done this to me? 414 00:21:32,890 --> 00:21:36,320 Speaker 1: You know, that's us trying to grasp at a reality 415 00:21:36,380 --> 00:21:38,460 Speaker 1: that's not there. So we have to get to the 416 00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:41,280 Speaker 1: place of acceptance. And when we get to that place 417 00:21:41,420 --> 00:21:46,610 Speaker 1: of acceptance, then we can look and see, okay, what's 418 00:21:46,660 --> 00:21:48,710 Speaker 1: on the table before me and what do I need 419 00:21:48,850 --> 00:21:51,270 Speaker 1: to do about it? I think the other thing that's 420 00:21:51,330 --> 00:21:54,850 Speaker 1: really important is how we handle our fears. You know, 421 00:21:54,890 --> 00:21:57,970 Speaker 1: I love that the podcast that you're doing is called 422 00:21:58,020 --> 00:21:58,690 Speaker 1: Faith Over Fear. 423 00:21:58,780 --> 00:22:00,800 Speaker 3: I love it because that's so crucial. 424 00:22:01,530 --> 00:22:05,230 Speaker 1: But a lot of times things will happen that cause 425 00:22:05,550 --> 00:22:10,740 Speaker 1: us to be afraid because past things that have happened, 426 00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:13,420 Speaker 1: they're still in our mind. And when we felt that 427 00:22:13,500 --> 00:22:16,740 Speaker 1: same feeling before, it meant real trouble was at hand. 428 00:22:17,020 --> 00:22:20,169 Speaker 1: So I learned in the writing of this book, I 429 00:22:20,190 --> 00:22:23,209 Speaker 1: did a lot of research on fear. And fear can 430 00:22:23,230 --> 00:22:26,670 Speaker 1: be broken up into four components. So there's the alert 431 00:22:26,730 --> 00:22:30,260 Speaker 1: or the alarm. And then the second one is memory. 432 00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:34,620 Speaker 1: The third is perception. And the fourth is response or reaction. 433 00:22:35,380 --> 00:22:37,510 Speaker 1: So you can't do anything about the alert or the alarm. 434 00:22:37,650 --> 00:22:39,570 Speaker 1: That's coming at you and it's going to hit you, 435 00:22:39,790 --> 00:22:42,169 Speaker 1: you know, when you least expect it. You know, it's 436 00:22:42,190 --> 00:22:45,130 Speaker 1: just going to come out of the blue. The memory part, 437 00:22:45,230 --> 00:22:47,550 Speaker 1: I just mentioned a minute ago. See, when we get 438 00:22:47,630 --> 00:22:51,730 Speaker 1: an alert or alarm, our brain automatically travels quickly in 439 00:22:51,780 --> 00:22:54,320 Speaker 1: our brain. Where's another time in our life that we 440 00:22:54,340 --> 00:22:58,420 Speaker 1: felt the same feeling? So it will pull from that memory, 441 00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:02,290 Speaker 1: which will become the way that we interpret or have 442 00:23:02,330 --> 00:23:06,350 Speaker 1: a perception of what is happening right now. Perception is 443 00:23:06,410 --> 00:23:09,270 Speaker 1: where we can do a lot of work. That's where 444 00:23:09,330 --> 00:23:13,320 Speaker 1: we can really work on our fear. Most people just say, okay, 445 00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:15,840 Speaker 1: I just got to be not afraid. Well, fear is 446 00:23:15,900 --> 00:23:19,820 Speaker 1: not something to go, never feel fear. Fear can actually serve. 447 00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:20,340 Speaker 3: Us really well. 448 00:23:21,090 --> 00:23:23,810 Speaker 1: Fear is there because it can warn us of danger, 449 00:23:24,070 --> 00:23:27,490 Speaker 1: but it can also make us aware of where some 450 00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:31,740 Speaker 1: perceptions are that we need to tend well to. Trauma 451 00:23:31,820 --> 00:23:35,160 Speaker 1: is not just what happens to us. The bigger part 452 00:23:35,460 --> 00:23:39,639 Speaker 1: of trauma is the story we now tell ourselves because 453 00:23:39,740 --> 00:23:42,420 Speaker 1: of what happened. The story that we tell ourselves because 454 00:23:42,460 --> 00:23:45,200 Speaker 1: of things that happened in the past is that is 455 00:23:45,300 --> 00:23:49,530 Speaker 1: what is going to feed our faith or feed our fear. 456 00:23:50,010 --> 00:23:53,510 Speaker 1: And then once we tend well to our perception, then 457 00:23:53,530 --> 00:23:56,210 Speaker 1: we will have better responses. So let me give you 458 00:23:56,230 --> 00:23:59,520 Speaker 1: an example of perception and how we can work on that. 459 00:23:59,710 --> 00:24:01,679 Speaker 3: If I hear that my. 460 00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:05,280 Speaker 1: Ex-husband has done something and it once again makes me go, 461 00:24:05,790 --> 00:24:08,730 Speaker 1: I can't believe that he did that. You know, that's 462 00:24:08,770 --> 00:24:11,389 Speaker 1: going to feed this fear in me. That's going to 463 00:24:11,550 --> 00:24:15,520 Speaker 1: feed this shock and send my body into flight, freeze, 464 00:24:15,580 --> 00:24:20,179 Speaker 1: fight mode. So instead, I have to take a step back. 465 00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:22,700 Speaker 1: And instead of going, I can't believe. 466 00:24:22,500 --> 00:24:24,430 Speaker 3: That he did that. Instead, I have to go, of 467 00:24:25,670 --> 00:24:26,730 Speaker 3: course he did that. 468 00:24:27,270 --> 00:24:31,030 Speaker 1: That is very consistent with other things that he's done. 469 00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:34,210 Speaker 3: And do you see how even just. 470 00:24:33,980 --> 00:24:38,369 Speaker 1: That shift, that very subtle shift in perception keeps me 471 00:24:38,410 --> 00:24:41,169 Speaker 1: in a calm place so that I can respond rather 472 00:24:41,230 --> 00:24:42,130 Speaker 1: than react? 473 00:24:42,750 --> 00:24:43,050 Speaker 3: Yeah. 474 00:24:43,270 --> 00:24:43,530 Speaker 1: Wow. 475 00:24:43,970 --> 00:24:46,010 Speaker 2: I would love to sit and talk about this with 476 00:24:46,050 --> 00:24:49,290 Speaker 2: you all day because this is such a complex issue. 477 00:24:49,630 --> 00:24:52,389 Speaker 2: Since we can't, I'm going to encourage the listeners to 478 00:24:52,450 --> 00:24:55,600 Speaker 2: get your book. Again, it's Making Peace With What I 479 00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:59,160 Speaker 2: Can't Control. Find relief from the exhaustion of overthinking, trying 480 00:24:59,180 --> 00:25:03,210 Speaker 2: to fix others, and wanting to figure it all out. 481 00:25:04,190 --> 00:25:06,850 Speaker 2: And let me read a little from the back cover. 482 00:25:07,670 --> 00:25:10,649 Speaker 2: Number one, New York Times bestselling author, Lisa Turkhurst offers 483 00:25:10,690 --> 00:25:14,369 Speaker 2: a life-giving alternative to the exhausting pursuit of trying to 484 00:25:14,430 --> 00:25:17,770 Speaker 2: change people, prevent what we fear and manage what remains 485 00:25:17,890 --> 00:25:22,109 Speaker 2: outside our control. Often our motives aren't bad. We simply 486 00:25:22,130 --> 00:25:25,330 Speaker 2: want to prevent more heartbreak and bring stability to chaos, 487 00:25:25,470 --> 00:25:28,350 Speaker 2: especially when we're afraid of what God seems to be 488 00:25:28,490 --> 00:25:31,310 Speaker 2: allowing us. But this can leave us carrying a weight 489 00:25:31,710 --> 00:25:35,790 Speaker 2: we were never meant to bear. I love that reminder. 490 00:25:35,869 --> 00:25:41,670 Speaker 2: Lisa helps readers identify the fears fueling controlling behavior, distinguish 491 00:25:41,730 --> 00:25:45,840 Speaker 2: healthy responsibility from fear-driven control, and trust God with the 492 00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:49,280 Speaker 2: people and circumstances they cannot change. And what I particularly 493 00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:52,460 Speaker 2: loved about your book, Lisa, is you were so transparent 494 00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:56,090 Speaker 2: about your inner struggles. that I think it just lifts 495 00:25:56,190 --> 00:25:59,390 Speaker 2: the shame that sometimes we can place on ourselves when 496 00:25:59,410 --> 00:26:02,530 Speaker 2: we're in really difficult situations. Thank you so much for 497 00:26:02,550 --> 00:26:08,290 Speaker 2: your transparency. Thank you for persevering and demonstrating what a 498 00:26:08,390 --> 00:26:12,290 Speaker 2: life held by God, even through the really hard can 499 00:26:12,330 --> 00:26:15,100 Speaker 2: look like look. And so if there's one thing as 500 00:26:15,130 --> 00:26:19,840 Speaker 2: we close that you would encourage listeners to begin to, 501 00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:23,740 Speaker 2: I would say, take control of their life by relinquishing control. 502 00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:25,780 Speaker 3: What is the one thing you would say? 503 00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:30,000 Speaker 1: I would just say, you know, when you have hard 504 00:26:30,060 --> 00:26:35,520 Speaker 1: things happen today, take a step back before you start. 505 00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:37,720 Speaker 3: Trying to fix it or overthink it or whatever. 506 00:26:37,780 --> 00:26:41,380 Speaker 1: Take a step back and ask yourself, what is the 507 00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:45,369 Speaker 1: reality here? Not what are my fears, not all the 508 00:26:45,420 --> 00:26:49,850 Speaker 1: worst case scenarios, but what is real right now? And 509 00:26:50,050 --> 00:26:53,310 Speaker 1: once we identify what's real right now, can we Can 510 00:26:53,350 --> 00:26:57,230 Speaker 1: we tackle what is within our ability to tackle? 511 00:26:57,300 --> 00:27:00,280 Speaker 3: Can we just do the next thing and then the 512 00:27:00,340 --> 00:27:00,960 Speaker 3: next thing? 513 00:27:01,180 --> 00:27:03,939 Speaker 1: And when we run out of things that are realistic 514 00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:07,720 Speaker 1: for us to do, that's where we have to release 515 00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:11,690 Speaker 1: the ultimate outcome to the Lord and just pray and say, God, 516 00:27:11,730 --> 00:27:13,030 Speaker 1: I've done everything I can do. 517 00:27:13,410 --> 00:27:16,629 Speaker 3: Now I have to release this to you. And that's 518 00:27:16,710 --> 00:27:18,170 Speaker 3: not spiritual bypassing. 519 00:27:18,510 --> 00:27:22,350 Speaker 1: That's being a wise, mature person who knows where their 520 00:27:22,510 --> 00:27:25,580 Speaker 1: efforts will be productive and where their efforts will turn 521 00:27:25,619 --> 00:27:26,359 Speaker 1: into controlling. 522 00:27:26,980 --> 00:27:29,060 Speaker 2: Yeah, I love how you simplify it. Just what is 523 00:27:29,100 --> 00:27:32,530 Speaker 2: God asking you today? Thank you so much, Lisa, for 524 00:27:32,609 --> 00:27:33,149 Speaker 2: joining us. 525 00:27:33,970 --> 00:27:34,989 Speaker 3: Absolutely. Thank you. 526 00:27:38,619 --> 00:27:41,000 Speaker 2: I hope this encouraged you. I hope it helped break 527 00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:45,480 Speaker 2: down a really big issue of control and made it 528 00:27:45,740 --> 00:27:47,660 Speaker 2: a little more practical as to how you can take 529 00:27:47,700 --> 00:27:50,970 Speaker 2: some steps towards increased freedom. If you haven't already done so, 530 00:27:51,150 --> 00:27:53,770 Speaker 2: I encourage you to subscribe to this podcast. Then you 531 00:27:53,790 --> 00:27:57,030 Speaker 2: won't miss a single episode. Share it with your friends, 532 00:27:57,150 --> 00:28:00,970 Speaker 2: with your faith community. Maybe you can share this episode 533 00:28:01,010 --> 00:28:05,890 Speaker 2: and talk through it if you're struggling financially. relinquishing control, 534 00:28:05,950 --> 00:28:10,209 Speaker 2: getting accountability, getting support can be really helpful. Until next time, 535 00:28:10,410 --> 00:28:13,360 Speaker 2: may you live as one who truly has been set free.