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Speaker 1: Life Audio. This is Donna Jones and you are listening

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Speaker 1: to That's just what I needed. Hey, friend, if you've

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Speaker 1: ever been in a conversation where you've walked away thinking, Wow,

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Speaker 1: that was just what I needed. You know how life

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Speaker 1: giving that can be, Well, that's what this podcast is

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Speaker 1: all about. We're women who want to know, love, and

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Speaker 1: follow God in our real lives, but sometimes wonder just

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Speaker 1: how to do it. So each week we'll talk about

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Speaker 1: what following God looks like in the midst of daily

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Speaker 1: demands and crazy cultural chaos. Because this isn't just what

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Speaker 1: we need, it's actually exactly what we need. Hey, hey,

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Speaker 1: my friend, welcome to the podcast. We have such a

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Speaker 1: great conversation for you today. I found it really helpful,

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Speaker 1: really practical, really healing, and I think that you will too.

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Speaker 1: But before we get into the conversation, hey, have you

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Speaker 1: hit the subscribe button for this podcast? If you haven't,

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Speaker 1: let's do that right now. Let's just take care of

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Speaker 1: that right now, because you know it's summer and you're

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Speaker 1: going to be on walks or driving in the car

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Speaker 1: and you're like, what am I going to do on

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Speaker 1: this long road trip? I have your solution. You're going

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Speaker 1: to listen to the podcast so that you don't miss

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Speaker 1: a single episode. Why don't you hit the subscribe button

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Speaker 1: right now? And this particular episode is probably going to

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Speaker 1: be one that you want to share it with someone.

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Speaker 1: As you're listening, you're going to find such practical things

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Speaker 1: for you and what you're going through. But I bet

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Speaker 1: you there is going to be another person that pops

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Speaker 1: into your mind that you're thinking, oh, this would really

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Speaker 1: encourage her or him. And so after you listen to

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Speaker 1: this podcast, I would love for you to share this

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Speaker 1: episode with that person that God brings to your mind.

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Speaker 1: Subscribing and liking and sharing, that's how people find out

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Speaker 1: about podcasts just like this one. So I want to

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Speaker 1: encourage you to do that today. Well, let me tell

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Speaker 1: you a little bit about today's guest turn. Name is

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Speaker 1: Jody Snowden. She is an author, she's a speaker, she's

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Speaker 1: a podcaster, and she has used her life story to

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Speaker 1: really help those of us who have gone through are

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Speaker 1: going through will go through things that are really hard

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Speaker 1: and that just break our hearts, which frankly is all

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Speaker 1: of us. You are gonna love Jody and her insights.

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Speaker 1: So help me welcome my new friend Jody Snowden. Jody,

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the podcast.

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Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, I'm so excited to be here, Donna.

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Speaker 2: It's gonna be so fun, I know.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so this is a really fun little trivia. I

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Speaker 1: connected with Jody because we're both going to be speaking

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Speaker 1: different months for an organization, and we found out that

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Speaker 1: we are actually neighbors.

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Speaker 2: Yes, ten minutes from each other.

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Speaker 1: Okay, we're just crazy, which is so crazy. That's even

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Speaker 1: just more delightful that we are neighbors, and so now

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Speaker 1: here we are podcast friends.

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Speaker 2: I think it's so fun. I know. I can't wait

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Speaker 2: to have you on my podcast too. So it's going

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Speaker 2: to be really fun. And then we're going to meet

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Speaker 2: in person at some point, which will be even more fun.

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Speaker 1: I know, I know. So I'm really excited for you

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Speaker 1: to share about You have this new book, and I

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Speaker 1: really love the subtitles. So tell us the name of

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Speaker 1: the book and the subtitle of the book.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm going to hold it up too. It's called Depth,

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Speaker 2: So I want you to picture this tree with the

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Speaker 2: deep roots, and the subtitle is growing through heartbreak to strength,

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Speaker 2: and so that's what happens when we go through heartbreaks.

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Speaker 2: Hopefully it's going to grow us. It's going to help

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Speaker 2: us become better, I will say better, but deeper, deeper roots.

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Speaker 2: And that's what happened to me. The question on the

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Speaker 2: back of the book is what if your greatest heartbreak

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Speaker 2: catapults you to your greatest growth. And that's what happened

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Speaker 2: in my life after I walk through three great heartbreaks,

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Speaker 2: which I share about in the book. And I didn't

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Speaker 2: realize it at the time. I thought I was just

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Speaker 2: healing from the heartbreak. But what I realized is as

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Speaker 2: I was healing, as I was reading my Bible and

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Speaker 2: reading other Christian books and seeking a support group and

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Speaker 2: a counselor and just growing and growing, that I was

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Speaker 2: actually growing deeper in my roots as well as healing,

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Speaker 2: which is just amazing how God does that. So that

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Speaker 2: is what the books about. It's for people walking through

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Speaker 2: It could be as big as a devastation like mine,

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Speaker 2: or divorce, miscarriage, cancer of a friend and sadly she

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Speaker 2: passed away, or it could be a disappointment. Again, I

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Speaker 2: feel like I'm actually reliving this right now, going through

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Speaker 2: some disappointments with things that I don't want to get

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Speaker 2: into the details, but like literally this week, it's like

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Speaker 2: I got to get my book out and review this

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Speaker 2: Strength Acrosstic that because it's like we go through disappointments

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Speaker 2: and disillusionments and devastations all the time.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's one of the reasons I wanted to

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Speaker 1: have you on the show, is that life is really

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Speaker 1: it is. Honestly, it's filled with joy. For sure. There's

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Speaker 1: great things in our lives and blessings all around us

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Speaker 1: every single day, but there's also things that are there's

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Speaker 1: heartbreaks where whether it's a little one, a misunderstanding that

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Speaker 1: we have with our child or our spouse or friend,

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Speaker 1: or it's like a big life changing heartbreak, and all

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Speaker 1: of us, by the way, have had both. All of

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Speaker 1: us have had the little ones and the big ones

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Speaker 1: if we've lived long enough, and we.

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Speaker 2: Will have more. I hate to tell them that, Like

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Speaker 2: since I wrote the book Sadly, I love my dad

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Speaker 2: last year and so that was another great heartbreak. It

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Speaker 2: was not just a mildment, was like a big loss

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Speaker 2: of Oh my gosh, he was like my one parent

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Speaker 2: that I could talk to. My other parent sadly has

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Speaker 2: dementia and I love my mom. But you know, when

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Speaker 2: I go visit her, I go and pour into her.

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Speaker 2: She's not able to be there for me. So it

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Speaker 2: was my parent that could like listen and have the

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Speaker 2: conversation with me, and just he was such a support

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Speaker 2: in my life and such an amazing grandfather my kids.

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Speaker 2: And sadly he passed away and so I had to

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Speaker 2: again start back over at the beginning. I wish I

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Speaker 2: could tell someone you just go through one great heart

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Speaker 2: break in your life and that's it. But God is

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Speaker 2: wanting to continue to grow us and continue to chisel

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Speaker 2: us and continue to grow our character development. And I

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Speaker 2: hate to say it, but we grow the most during

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Speaker 2: the storms in our lives. That's when we seek God

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Speaker 2: in a way we never seek God before. Now if

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Speaker 2: some people run away from the Lord during that time,

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Speaker 2: so you have a choice. I loved this quote by

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Speaker 2: John Ortberg. He says, if you ask someone when they

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Speaker 2: grew the deepest in their faith, the answer will be suffering.

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Speaker 2: But if you ask someone when they walked away from

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Speaker 2: their faith, the answer will be suffering. So we get

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Speaker 2: to decide how are we going to take that suffering

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Speaker 2: and use it. Doesn't mean you like it. Like when

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Speaker 2: I come and speak, people don't really love that question, like, well,

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Speaker 2: I don't want my greatest heartbreak to catapult me to

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Speaker 2: my greatest growth, but that is what can happen. But

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Speaker 2: you have to choose to surrender it to the Lord

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Speaker 2: and say I didn't want this for my life, but

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Speaker 2: I want this to grow me. I want this to

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Speaker 2: make me more like you, Jesus. And that's hard to do.

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Speaker 2: And so the strength of crossus doesn't start there. That's like,

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Speaker 2: as we work through it, right, it starts with just

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Speaker 2: seek God and invite him into the pain.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so pause right there just for a second, because

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Speaker 1: you're jumping into Well, first of all, I'm want to

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Speaker 1: piggyback on something you said earlier, and I want to

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Speaker 1: ask you about this across deck because at the very

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Speaker 1: beginning you said you were seeking healing and then you

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Speaker 1: found depth and I think growth and see I think

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Speaker 1: that that. We don't want to skip over that because

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Speaker 1: I know that for me, when there's heartache, the first

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Speaker 1: thing I do is I seek healing. In other words,

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Speaker 1: what I'm saying is I'm like, Okay, make this go away,

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Speaker 1: like make it make it all better, God, make me

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Speaker 1: feel better, God, resolve this God. Right, So that's I'm

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Speaker 1: wanting to be healed and not hurt anymore. But you're

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Speaker 1: saying like, in the process of that, what's even more

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Speaker 1: more important is the growth, So it can be healing

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Speaker 1: and growth. It's not just growth and then like you

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Speaker 1: don't get healed.

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Speaker 2: Correct, the healing has to happen as well. And some

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Speaker 2: people don't want to walk through it. They just want

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Speaker 2: a quick fix, like can't we just find a way

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Speaker 2: to walk around it? Or I don't want to feel

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Speaker 2: because see, in order to heal, you have to feel.

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Speaker 2: And see, feelings are hard because we don't want to

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Speaker 2: sit in the sadness. We don't want to sit in

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Speaker 2: the frustration, the disappointment, the anger, the asking questions, the doubts,

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Speaker 2: the why. But that's the very place you have to

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Speaker 2: be in to get through it. So the keyword is

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Speaker 2: through the pain. So I'll get to that in the

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Speaker 2: crosst But I say, tearfully, allow yourself time to grieve

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Speaker 2: and processing emotions. It has to come through you. And

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Speaker 2: for some people they want a quick fix, like I

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Speaker 2: just want the pain to go away. God, But what

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Speaker 2: if we could look at our heartbreaks in a different lens?

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Speaker 2: Is just instead of a quick fix, which there won't

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Speaker 2: be a lot of depth and growth. That way, you

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Speaker 2: might feel a little better, but there won't be a

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Speaker 2: lot of character change along the way. What if God

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Speaker 2: has something more for you and you just want to

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Speaker 2: quick I don't want to feel sad anymore, I don't

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Speaker 2: want to feel angry anymore, and you miss what could be,

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Speaker 2: which is this depth of relationship with the Lord, with

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Speaker 2: these roots growing deeper. And I don't want to want

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Speaker 2: someone to just after experiencing this, I'm like, this is

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Speaker 2: what I want for people now that I want them

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Speaker 2: to go through hard things. I mean, gosh, I wish

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Speaker 2: I could take away the pain of all the hard

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Speaker 2: things that you're going through. But what if we looked

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Speaker 2: at them different and see perspective is key, But it's

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Speaker 2: not where you start. So again, when I get through

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Speaker 2: the crossic perspectives, like down the way, it starts with

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Speaker 2: lamenting and grieving and processing the emotions because that's where

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Speaker 2: you start. So I don't know if that helps.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and Jody, I think this is really important because

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Speaker 1: we live in a culture that is addicted to a

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Speaker 1: quick fixes and be avoidance of pain. You look on

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Speaker 1: social media, everything is about be happy, avoid pain, even

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Speaker 1: like this whole notion that I've noticed on social media

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Speaker 1: with like creating space or boundaries against people. There are

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Speaker 1: obviously boundaries we need to have with people, but it's

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Speaker 1: like shutting people out or cancel culture, or like I'm

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Speaker 1: just going to remove myself completely from because I don't

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Speaker 1: want to feel any kind of uncomfortability. What I'm trying

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Speaker 1: to say is our culture, and we have to be

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Speaker 1: super aware of this, is that we avoid anything that

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Speaker 1: makes us uncomfortable. And when we avoid anything that makes

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Speaker 1: us uncomfortable, by default, we are avoiding anything that would

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Speaker 1: help us grow.

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Speaker 2: I think brokenness because again, some of these heartbreaks, you

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Speaker 2: just feel broken, right. So I actually when I share

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Speaker 2: my testimony, when I speak, I bring a broken claypot.

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Speaker 2: And I purposely went one Saturday and cracked a pot

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Speaker 2: in my backyard against the flower bed so it would

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Speaker 2: shatter because for so many years I wanted to be

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Speaker 2: that perfect pot, you know, no cracks, no problems. But

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Speaker 2: first of all, that perfect claypot does not exist. And

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Speaker 2: if someone says they do, they're lying.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: Everyone has a struggle, everyone walking through something hard. So

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Speaker 2: I had the wrong view of the brokenness. I thought

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Speaker 2: the brokenness disqualified me. But what if it's not the disqualifier.

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Speaker 2: What if the broke goodness is the very thing that

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Speaker 2: God can use for you to go and enter into

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Speaker 2: someone else's life and help another hurting heart. Because who

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Speaker 2: better to help someone that's walked through divorce than someone

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Speaker 2: that's walked through divorce and said, look a Lord, the

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Speaker 2: Lord met me in the pain, or someone that has

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Speaker 2: an addiction. Then someone that has an addiction to say

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Speaker 2: I was able to break free or whatever. You know,

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Speaker 2: it could even be something that wasn't your choice. It

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Speaker 2: could be a miscarriage that you know you didn't have. Again,

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Speaker 2: there's always shame attached to every heartbreak, But there was

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Speaker 2: shame attached to my divorce, but there's not shame attached

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Speaker 2: to my miscarriage. But maybe that broken pieces though that

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Speaker 2: is my miscarriage, Maybe I can enter into someone else's

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Speaker 2: pain then when I find out they had one, And

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Speaker 2: that is what actually happened. My life first was birthed

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Speaker 2: through all of these heartbreaks, because just a year later

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Speaker 2: someone else walked through them. And Second Corinthians one three

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Speaker 2: through four says, Praise be to God who comforts us

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Speaker 2: in our pain so that we can then go and

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Speaker 2: comfort others. And I did not realize that in order

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Speaker 2: to actually be able to go comfort others, you have

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Speaker 2: had to got to experience it first, because you don't

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Speaker 2: have the empathy or the compassion to go talk to

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Speaker 2: someone if you've never experienced loss. I mean for years,

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Speaker 2: I had never grieved. First. This big heartbreak was my miscarriage,

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Speaker 2: which I was like late twenties. So all those years,

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Speaker 2: I mean, I didn't know how to enter into someone's pain.

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Speaker 2: I didn't know how to come up and talk to

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Speaker 2: But what did heartbreak teach me? It taught me empathy,

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Speaker 2: It taught me compassion, It taught me how to come

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Speaker 2: and talk to someone. And then the divorce broke me

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Speaker 2: and then it was just like, well, brokenness. Now I've

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Speaker 2: got a new view. So what if you could see

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Speaker 2: your heartbreaks in a different view, a different light, and

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Speaker 2: then maybe what they are. And I think we want

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Speaker 2: to avoid the hard things. But that's where we don't grow,

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Speaker 2: you know, when we're sipping margarita is on a cruise ship, right,

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Speaker 2: We grow when we're in the middle of Like God,

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Speaker 2: I can't get out of bed today. I don't know

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Speaker 2: how I'm gonna do this. How am I going to

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Speaker 2: be there for my kids? How I'm going to be there?

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Speaker 2: I have no tools in my tool belt to handle this.

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Speaker 2: And that's when God's like, I've gotcha, you know, and

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Speaker 2: that intimacy with him grows in a way that it

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Speaker 2: doesn't grow when things are going well. Now, I'm not

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Speaker 2: saying I'm happy for the pain. I just want to

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Speaker 2: make a little footnote here. Pain is hard, but if

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Speaker 2: there's purpose to the pain, well, then I'm going to

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Speaker 2: want to have a little like I'm going to want

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Speaker 2: that because if it's just pain and that's it and

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Speaker 2: we just go through these hard things in life, there's

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Speaker 2: no growth and there's no meaning and there's well that's horrible.

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Speaker 2: But if there is a way that God comes in

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Speaker 2: and says I can use this, there's another hurting heart

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Speaker 2: that needs to hear your story where, you know what,

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Speaker 2: like Joseph in the Bible walked through detour after detour,

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Speaker 2: but God grew him so that when he was able

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Speaker 2: to match his calling that God had for him. He

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Speaker 2: was just really immature, un self aware teenager when he

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Speaker 2: got this calling for his life where the Lord told him,

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Speaker 2: you know, he had these dreams people are going to

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Speaker 2: bow to you. But he wasn't ready for that. But

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Speaker 2: what got him ready detours the pit. Right. If you

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Speaker 2: haven't read Genesis, to read the story of Joseph. It's

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Speaker 2: like a soap op, right. I tell people people say

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Speaker 2: the Bible's not interesting to me, I'm like, you haven't

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Speaker 2: read Joseph's story. It's like it's the best. It's so interesting, right,

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Speaker 2: And I think that that But that's good perspective, right, Like,

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Speaker 2: wait a minute, that's how you grow the most. Now.

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Speaker 2: I love to tell tree story, So let me just

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Speaker 2: throw in a tree story real, kick your donna before

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Speaker 2: we get to the acrossing. So to me, trees fascinate me.

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Speaker 2: So the first time I got to go see him,

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Speaker 2: like I think, wow, how deep did these roots go underneath? Okay?

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Speaker 2: And so I heard this like it's kind of like

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Speaker 2: a I don't know allegory parable something. But this man

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Speaker 2: walks into the forest and he's like ready to give

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Speaker 2: up on God. He's like, God, I don't see you.

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Speaker 2: I don't know why I'm in this hard circumstance. And

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Speaker 2: God says, well, what do you see around you? And

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Speaker 2: he says, I see ferns, and I see bamboo, and

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Speaker 2: so God says, okay, well, immediately the ferns grow in

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Speaker 2: the first year of their life. But bamboo, if you

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Speaker 2: were to look at bamboo the first year of life,

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Speaker 2: there's no external growth. There's only internal depth growth because

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Speaker 2: that bamboo's going to be one hundred feet tall. So

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Speaker 2: for the first year, no external growth, for the second year,

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Speaker 2: no external growth for five years, Donna, there is no

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Speaker 2: growth on the outside of bamboo. You would think this

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Speaker 2: plant was dead, but it's not. It's growing deep roots

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Speaker 2: because God's going to take that bamboo one hundred feet tall.

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Speaker 2: To match that height, it has to have that much depth.

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Speaker 2: So what you're going through right now, maybe God's got

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Speaker 2: plans for you, And like Joseph, you're not ready. Your

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Speaker 2: character needs a little bit developed. You need a little

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Speaker 2: more self awareness. And so He's like, Okay, I got

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Speaker 2: to grow you. I want you to be like bamboo.

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Speaker 2: I want to be able to take you to this

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Speaker 2: calling I have you, but I need to work on

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Speaker 2: your depth first. That's where he starts with the roots,

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Speaker 2: not with the fruit. We want to do good things

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Speaker 2: for Jesus, but he starts with the roots and for me,

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Speaker 2: all that deep rooted growth happened through my hard times.

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Speaker 2: Now I seeking God the way I was through the

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Speaker 2: hard times, and so now I still have this beautiful

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Speaker 2: entancy with Him. But for a while, I mean I

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Speaker 2: was a strong Christian, but I would read my Bible

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Speaker 2: and have a quiet time, but I didn't have the

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Speaker 2: depth that I have now. I don't know if that

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Speaker 2: makes sense, but I want your listeners to be bamboo.

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Speaker 2: I want them to have God be able to say,

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Speaker 2: this is my half for you, and I'm going to

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Speaker 2: get you there, but we need some years of just

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Speaker 2: you and me hidden growth. For it's just you and

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Speaker 2: me with your Bible and we're going deep. Does that

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Speaker 2: make sense?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, that's so good. Okay, we're going to take

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Speaker 1: a quick break and when we come back. We have

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Speaker 1: alluded to this acrostic that you have in your book

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Speaker 1: that really walks us through how we can get this

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Speaker 1: depth with Jesus. That it takes this not just from healing,

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Speaker 1: you know, but actual growth. So when we come back,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to ask you about that, and you are

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Speaker 1: going to give us some hope and some tools. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So Jody, we're talking about how to grow deep in

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Speaker 1: the thats of our heartache and our heartbreaks. So tell

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Speaker 1: us this acrostic. It's the acoustic of the word strength. Correct.

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Speaker 2: Correct. When God gave this idea to me to write

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Speaker 2: the book, and there's three different storylines, I'm like, how

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Speaker 2: do you write a book with three different storylines? So

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Speaker 2: I pray for wisdom.

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Speaker 1: And when you say that three different storylines, it's your

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Speaker 1: three different storylines of different heartaches that you have had.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I'm so sorry. Let me clarify. So one's my miscarriage,

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Speaker 2: one's my divorce, and one's my friend who passed away

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Speaker 2: to cancer. So those are my three great heartbreaks that

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Speaker 2: I felt like the Lord wanted me to include in

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Speaker 2: this book. But they were like three different times in

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Speaker 2: my life. And it's like, how do you write a

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Speaker 2: book that? Do you do it chronologically? And so the

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Speaker 2: Lord drop this acrostic into my mind. So take the

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Speaker 2: word strength and turn it on its side. And so

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Speaker 2: each of the letters is a way to move from

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Speaker 2: heartbreak to strength, but not your own strength, strength in

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Speaker 2: the Lord. But then under each header, I do three

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Speaker 2: quick little chapters and they're small because when you're going

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Speaker 2: through grief, you don't have time to read a lot, right,

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Speaker 2: So it's just like a little more than like a

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Speaker 2: blog post. And each one is one of the storylines,

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Speaker 2: so under each one, so you could kind of so

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Speaker 2: sometimes people relate more to one of the storylines, but

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Speaker 2: I have all of them in there, and there's always

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Speaker 2: a truth And even if none of those storylines match

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Speaker 2: your heartbreak, there is still things in there with the

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Speaker 2: truth statements at the end of the prayers that you

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Speaker 2: could apply to your heartbreak. But the first the s

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Speaker 2: is seek God and invite Him into your pain. And

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Speaker 2: it sounds so simple, right, But when you're walking through

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Speaker 2: something hard, a lot of times you have why questions

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Speaker 2: like why God? Why me? Why is this happening to me?

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Speaker 2: And a lot of people think, well, I can't seek

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Speaker 2: God if I'm I'm doubting him, but that's not true. Actually,

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Speaker 2: God wants you to seek him when you're having these doubts,

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Speaker 2: and God kind of have this wrestling with him, this

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Speaker 2: time with him, and it's called lamenting in the Bible,

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Speaker 2: and it's shown in Psalms. If you have read anything

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Speaker 2: that David wrote, He's laments a lot and gives us

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Speaker 2: an example. So it's bringing your complaints, bringing your frustrations, Like, God,

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Speaker 2: this isn't what I wanted for my life. I didn't

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Speaker 2: want my kids to grow up in a home that

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Speaker 2: was divorced. I didn't want to lose my friend to

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Speaker 2: cancel she had little kids. God, Like why, Like, you

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Speaker 2: bring everything to him and you get it out, but

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Speaker 2: you don't just say it afterwards, you bring a truth

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Speaker 2: to it. So in the Psalms, if you were to

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Speaker 2: read them, they always end but God, and then not

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Speaker 2: truth or yet God. And so there's that conjunction but

399
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Speaker 2: or yet, and you need to then give a true

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Speaker 2: statement that you're going to cling to. Like, but God,

401
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Speaker 2: I know you're close to the broken hearted Psalms thirty

402
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Speaker 2: four eighteen. Yet God, I know that you can take

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Speaker 2: all things and use them for the good Romans eight twenty.

404
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Speaker 2: You know you bring in something that so lamenting is

405
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Speaker 2: still getting that out of you, all the doubts and

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Speaker 2: the whys. But then it's also clinging a truth to

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Speaker 2: the Lord, Like Okay, I'm going to cling to this

408
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Speaker 2: right now. Why I'm still wrestling with you, and this

409
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Speaker 2: can take a long time, Like I don't want people

410
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Speaker 2: to think, oh check, like I lamented one day check

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Speaker 2: like this strength acrostic is years healing that turned into

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Speaker 2: deep rooted growth. Right. So I know people want quick

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Speaker 2: but grief is not quick, and everyone grieves a different

414
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Speaker 2: way and a different amount of time. But I just

415
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Speaker 2: want people to see that this is like a process.

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Speaker 2: It's not check off the list, and it could be

417
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Speaker 2: in different order, but this is how I felt like

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Speaker 2: God helped me get through it. So seek God and

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Speaker 2: invite him into the pain again, don't run away from

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Speaker 2: the Lord. Seek him.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to piggyback on something. I love that you

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Speaker 1: talk about this like the lament and bringing everything to

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Speaker 1: the Lord, because even just that it keeps the lines

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Speaker 1: of communication open between you and God. Even if you're

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Speaker 1: going like I don't get this God, like what is

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Speaker 1: going on? Like David did in the Psalms? Why is

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Speaker 1: this happening? Or I just read this morning as a

428
00:18:13,119 --> 00:18:15,080
Speaker 1: matter of fact, one of the Psalms and David says,

429
00:18:15,359 --> 00:18:17,879
Speaker 1: how long, O Lord? I mean, how long am I

430
00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:20,720
Speaker 1: going to wrestle with my thoughts? That's actually a scripture

431
00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:23,399
Speaker 1: that David said to the Lord. And I bet you

432
00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:26,400
Speaker 1: there is not one of our friends that is listening,

433
00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:30,400
Speaker 1: including me and you that have not said, how long

434
00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:31,800
Speaker 1: am I going to wrestle with this thought?

435
00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:32,240
Speaker 2: O Lord?

436
00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:34,639
Speaker 1: Not one of us, we all have said that, But

437
00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:37,040
Speaker 1: just how beautiful to be able to say that to God.

438
00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:41,760
Speaker 1: And then even that it's connection with the Lord about

439
00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:44,760
Speaker 1: what we're really struggling with, the feeling thinking, And then

440
00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:47,840
Speaker 1: like you said, but then okay, but here's what's true.

441
00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:50,280
Speaker 2: And probably in that Psalms if you trace back a

442
00:18:50,359 --> 00:18:52,760
Speaker 2: little farther down after he said that, there is a

443
00:18:52,800 --> 00:18:55,680
Speaker 2: statement in everyone it will say bet God or yeat God,

444
00:18:55,680 --> 00:18:57,960
Speaker 2: like go look is He will then say, but God,

445
00:18:57,960 --> 00:19:00,200
Speaker 2: I'm going to trust you? Is beautiful and I love that?

446
00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:01,840
Speaker 2: How long? Because yeah, how long do I have to

447
00:19:01,920 --> 00:19:03,919
Speaker 2: go through this? And why aren't you showing up? And

448
00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:07,320
Speaker 2: all those questions? Those are important, and don't discount your whys.

449
00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:09,239
Speaker 2: But there will come a time where your wives have

450
00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:11,400
Speaker 2: to change to what now? And that's a little farther

451
00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:13,439
Speaker 2: down on the acrostic. But you can't stay stuck and

452
00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:15,000
Speaker 2: why why is? You need to be in the why

453
00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:16,920
Speaker 2: at the beginning, because that's how you get it through you.

454
00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:19,040
Speaker 2: So don't discount the whine like God's as a plan.

455
00:19:19,080 --> 00:19:20,639
Speaker 2: I don't even need to wrestle with him. No, you

456
00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:23,480
Speaker 2: gotta wrestle because there is like why why am I here?

457
00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:26,240
Speaker 2: You got to be truthful, but at some point in

458
00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:28,240
Speaker 2: time you're going to switch your why to what now? God,

459
00:19:28,280 --> 00:19:30,119
Speaker 2: who needs to hear my story? What can I do

460
00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:32,360
Speaker 2: now to take these broken pieces and have you use

461
00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:34,520
Speaker 2: them and redeem them. So that's a little farther down

462
00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:36,800
Speaker 2: on the crustic. But like if someone right now just

463
00:19:36,840 --> 00:19:39,199
Speaker 2: got the news with a diagnosis from a doctor they

464
00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:41,600
Speaker 2: didn't want to hear, or something happened to a love one,

465
00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:43,280
Speaker 2: like this is where you start. This why is the

466
00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:45,479
Speaker 2: beginning of the acrostic. You seek God and invite Him

467
00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:48,080
Speaker 2: into your pain and then t tearfully allow yourself time

468
00:19:48,119 --> 00:19:51,479
Speaker 2: to grieve and process the emotions. Seek a counselor Christian counselor,

469
00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:54,000
Speaker 2: seek a support group. They had an Empty Arms support

470
00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:56,159
Speaker 2: group at my church for when I lost my baby,

471
00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:58,440
Speaker 2: and it was just so helpful to be around other

472
00:19:58,480 --> 00:20:00,600
Speaker 2: people that had the same loss and we kind of

473
00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:03,200
Speaker 2: work through some things together and just have support. I

474
00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:05,879
Speaker 2: loved time with my Christian counselor. I saw a therapist

475
00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:09,200
Speaker 2: for many years after my divorce and loved the truths

476
00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:11,680
Speaker 2: and the things I learned and how much I grew

477
00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:14,119
Speaker 2: during that time. If you can't afford that, they have,

478
00:20:14,359 --> 00:20:16,199
Speaker 2: like grief share groups, you can go to a you know,

479
00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:18,679
Speaker 2: there's so many ways to get the emotions through you,

480
00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:21,760
Speaker 2: a trusted friend, journaling. I loved to journal. I mean,

481
00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:23,639
Speaker 2: there's a lot of ways, but the emotions have to

482
00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:26,320
Speaker 2: come through you, and that's super important. And that can

483
00:20:26,359 --> 00:20:27,680
Speaker 2: also take a lot of time. And it could be

484
00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:29,639
Speaker 2: done in conjunction with seeking God, or it could be

485
00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:31,879
Speaker 2: done separately with someone else, but those are both really important.

486
00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:33,920
Speaker 2: I would say, if you're in heartbreak, that's where you start.

487
00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:36,600
Speaker 2: But at some point a lot of people get stuck

488
00:20:36,760 --> 00:20:38,600
Speaker 2: in their heartbreak and they can't get out of it.

489
00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:41,200
Speaker 2: So these next ones are perspective pieces. Now, I wouldn't

490
00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:43,240
Speaker 2: recommend this to someone that just got the news because

491
00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:45,320
Speaker 2: it sounds like you need a grief first in lament,

492
00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:48,320
Speaker 2: but the r is replace your finite view with God's

493
00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:52,640
Speaker 2: infinite perspective. See, we can only see what's around us

494
00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:55,480
Speaker 2: this physical world, but there's a whole nother spiritual world,

495
00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:57,919
Speaker 2: and sometimes God is moving and working in ways that

496
00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:00,600
Speaker 2: we don't see, and we don't know what he's doing

497
00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:02,520
Speaker 2: and how he's going to use the heartbreak. So I

498
00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:05,040
Speaker 2: love in the Bible Paul. He's like a pillar of

499
00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:07,400
Speaker 2: our faith, the apostle Paul. There was a season where

500
00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:09,560
Speaker 2: Paul was put in prison and during that time he

501
00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:12,360
Speaker 2: wrote letters. And here's the interesting thing, don it that's

502
00:21:12,359 --> 00:21:13,959
Speaker 2: probably the last place he wanted to be. He had

503
00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:16,399
Speaker 2: a beautiful speaking ministry, he was sharing the gospel, and

504
00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:18,520
Speaker 2: he got kind of sidelined into prison. And I'm sure

505
00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:20,840
Speaker 2: there was a day, many days, but I'm sure there

506
00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:23,359
Speaker 2: was at least one day where Paul goes, God, why

507
00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:26,359
Speaker 2: am I here in prison and not out speaking to

508
00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:29,320
Speaker 2: people and sharing the good news? But see, he didn't

509
00:21:29,359 --> 00:21:31,639
Speaker 2: see what God could see that while he was in

510
00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:33,920
Speaker 2: that prison and he'd write these letters, that these letters

511
00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:36,400
Speaker 2: would become part of the Bible, and that his influence

512
00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:40,359
Speaker 2: would outreach him when he was alive. His greatest impact

513
00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:42,719
Speaker 2: was the very place he didn't want to be. I

514
00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:44,240
Speaker 2: want someone to sit with that for a minute. What

515
00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:46,760
Speaker 2: if your greatest impact that God's going to have for

516
00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:49,080
Speaker 2: you helping others is the very heartbreak you're in right

517
00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:51,800
Speaker 2: now that you don't want to be in very circumstantial

518
00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:53,960
Speaker 2: if you wish didn't happen. What if God's going to

519
00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:57,000
Speaker 2: use that to grow you to help another person, See Paul,

520
00:21:57,119 --> 00:22:00,240
Speaker 2: I don't think Paul knew before he passed. And this

521
00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:02,040
Speaker 2: is a question someday I will ask him in heaven

522
00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:03,640
Speaker 2: did you know that these were going to be letters

523
00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:05,439
Speaker 2: in the Bible? Because I think we could probably be like,

524
00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:07,120
Speaker 2: why am I in prison God, and complain and get

525
00:22:07,119 --> 00:22:09,040
Speaker 2: stuck there and just say I'm not doing anything for you.

526
00:22:09,119 --> 00:22:11,000
Speaker 2: But instead he said, oh, you want me to write letters, Okay,

527
00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:12,679
Speaker 2: I'll write letters. I don't think he knew the impact

528
00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:14,000
Speaker 2: Anna that that was going to be, but see that

529
00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:16,320
Speaker 2: was replacing his finite view to go, Okay, God, you

530
00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:18,480
Speaker 2: must have a bigger picture. I don't know why I'm here,

531
00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:20,639
Speaker 2: but you ask me to write letters, I'm gonna write letters, right.

532
00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:22,320
Speaker 2: So maybe God's put something on your heart and you're like,

533
00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:24,400
Speaker 2: I don't want to tell someone about this. What if

534
00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:26,520
Speaker 2: that's going to be the biggest part of your healing.

535
00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:30,639
Speaker 2: Shame is broken and breaks free from sharing. I just

536
00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:32,400
Speaker 2: want to encourage someone with that. This is where you start.

537
00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:34,400
Speaker 2: Like if you just got the diagnosis, I would never say, oh,

538
00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:35,960
Speaker 2: what if God can use it right now, you've got

539
00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:37,600
Speaker 2: a lament because it's really hard. But these are for

540
00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:39,640
Speaker 2: someone that maybe it's been like three years, five years,

541
00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:41,480
Speaker 2: and I'm still stuck, like I still don't know why

542
00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:43,200
Speaker 2: God had this happened to me? This is a good

543
00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:45,000
Speaker 2: question to ask for God? Or is there something that

544
00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:46,560
Speaker 2: you're doing that I'm not seeing? And I need a

545
00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:48,960
Speaker 2: partner with you. If we're holding our broken pieces so

546
00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:51,359
Speaker 2: tight and we can't release them to him, he can't

547
00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:53,879
Speaker 2: use them. So it's like an act of surrender of saying,

548
00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:57,359
Speaker 2: here's my story, here's whatever it is that many of

549
00:22:57,400 --> 00:22:58,639
Speaker 2: us don't want to share, Like I don't want to

550
00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:01,439
Speaker 2: admit that I've been through divorce, right, that's embarrassing, and

551
00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:03,919
Speaker 2: for many years I struggle with that. But then I realize,

552
00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:06,920
Speaker 2: if that helps someone else, why wouldn't I tell them? Yes,

553
00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:09,240
Speaker 2: we all have our issues, right, so that happens to

554
00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:11,680
Speaker 2: be what my family struggled with. But if that helps

555
00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:13,800
Speaker 2: someone grow, why wouldn't I. And that brings us to

556
00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:16,280
Speaker 2: e and embrace God's character development in the midst of

557
00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:18,760
Speaker 2: the chaos. He's going to grow you. You're gonna be chiseled.

558
00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:21,080
Speaker 2: And I have a chapter called embrace the chisel and

559
00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:23,240
Speaker 2: no one wants that. Andy was like, oh, I don't

560
00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:25,480
Speaker 2: want to be chiseled, but it's like the pruning. I

561
00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:27,640
Speaker 2: feel like I'm in the season of being pruned again

562
00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:29,159
Speaker 2: right now, and it's like, no one wants that. But

563
00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:31,840
Speaker 2: we become more christ Like when we have these chiselings,

564
00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:34,320
Speaker 2: you know, and these times and so a lot of times,

565
00:23:34,359 --> 00:23:37,040
Speaker 2: that's what's happening during our heartbreaks, is there's a character

566
00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:40,760
Speaker 2: development happening. We become more loving and pathetic. Empathy is

567
00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:42,480
Speaker 2: such a gift we can give someone, and I think

568
00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:44,439
Speaker 2: that's one of the biggest gifts you get when you

569
00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:46,760
Speaker 2: walk through heartbreak, as you realize, oh, this is so hard.

570
00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:49,200
Speaker 2: Now I can understand what someone's going through and enter

571
00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:51,439
Speaker 2: into it in a way that's just really beautiful. And

572
00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:54,000
Speaker 2: so that's the str I'm gonna go a little quicker

573
00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:55,480
Speaker 2: because I know I'm getting long winded, but n is

574
00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:57,560
Speaker 2: never lose sight of God's grace. And this is the

575
00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:00,840
Speaker 2: part where I address shame. I talk about forgiveness. There's

576
00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:04,040
Speaker 2: so much that goes into that section because again, some

577
00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:06,399
Speaker 2: heartbreaks have shame attachment. But I want to say to

578
00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:08,479
Speaker 2: someone right now, you can't do anything that the Lord's

579
00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:10,640
Speaker 2: grace does not cover. God sent Jesus to the Christ.

580
00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:13,439
Speaker 2: Jesus's blood covers everything. So there's nothing you could do

581
00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:15,760
Speaker 2: that you need to keep stuck in the shame. Satan's saying,

582
00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:18,159
Speaker 2: don't tell anyone, don't tell anyone, But that's keeping you

583
00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:20,760
Speaker 2: stuck in the shame. God's freedom and God's grace will

584
00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:22,480
Speaker 2: come when you share. Now, does it mean share to

585
00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:25,440
Speaker 2: everyone you know? No, maybe share to a trusted friend

586
00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:27,120
Speaker 2: or someone you know that it's going to be able

587
00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:29,600
Speaker 2: to hold that with you and keep that and help you.

588
00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:32,600
Speaker 2: But definitely that will help you break free. And forgiveness too.

589
00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:34,960
Speaker 2: That forgiveness is a gift you give yourself. Some people

590
00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:36,880
Speaker 2: say I just can't forgive, and it's like, well, that's

591
00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:39,000
Speaker 2: not a gift that other person. The forgiveness is a

592
00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:41,040
Speaker 2: gift to you because you will grow bitterness in your

593
00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:42,800
Speaker 2: heart if you can't let go and forgive. And it

594
00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:44,280
Speaker 2: took many years for me to be able to get

595
00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:46,560
Speaker 2: to forgiveness. But it is a beautiful gift that the

596
00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:49,959
Speaker 2: Lord helps us release that bitterness and that anger.

597
00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:53,280
Speaker 1: I want to ask you something about shame and bitterness

598
00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:55,720
Speaker 1: because you mentioned at the top of the show, two

599
00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:59,199
Speaker 1: of your heartbreaks, the divorce and the miscarriage, and you

600
00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:02,040
Speaker 1: said there was you felt a lot of shame around

601
00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:06,399
Speaker 1: the divorce, but really no shame around the miscarriage. And

602
00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:09,320
Speaker 1: when you said that, I thought to myself, Oh, that's interesting,

603
00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:14,240
Speaker 1: because there are some women that even experience shame around

604
00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:18,040
Speaker 1: something like a miscarriage, maybe not shame from other people,

605
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:22,760
Speaker 1: but from themselves. They might even think, did I do

606
00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:27,560
Speaker 1: something to cause this is God punishing me for something?

607
00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:29,800
Speaker 1: Do you know what I'm saying? Like, there's the internal

608
00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:33,399
Speaker 1: voices of shame, and then there's external voices of shame.

609
00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:38,400
Speaker 1: And so if somebody is in a heartbreak, whatever their

610
00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:43,200
Speaker 1: heartbreak is, they're thinking, oh, I have had external voices,

611
00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:45,800
Speaker 1: you know, people who have kind of shamed me, or

612
00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:49,240
Speaker 1: I'm having internal voices of shame. Jody, what would be

613
00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:51,479
Speaker 1: your advice to them?

614
00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:54,800
Speaker 2: I love this question. Well, I think vulnerability breaks the

615
00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:57,040
Speaker 2: cycle of shape. So I'll tell a little story I

616
00:25:57,080 --> 00:25:59,240
Speaker 2: had going through my divorce and we hadn't really told

617
00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:01,040
Speaker 2: a lot of like people around, you know, just our

618
00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:02,639
Speaker 2: close friends, and it was like, this news is going

619
00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:05,639
Speaker 2: to eventually break and I was really nervous about that,

620
00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:07,760
Speaker 2: like having people, what are they going to think of me?

621
00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:09,000
Speaker 2: What are they going to say to me? And so

622
00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:11,000
Speaker 2: one day I was always up really early with the Lord.

623
00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:12,439
Speaker 2: Like my kids went to bed early, so I went

624
00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:14,040
Speaker 2: to bed early with them. They were young at the time.

625
00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:16,040
Speaker 2: And I remember one morning had me right like get

626
00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:17,520
Speaker 2: up and we just had this time on the computer

627
00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:20,160
Speaker 2: and I was writing about vulnerability and I was saying

628
00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:22,600
Speaker 2: how social media, everyone shares their highlight reel, but no

629
00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:24,200
Speaker 2: one's sharing the behind the scenes is So God had

630
00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:25,720
Speaker 2: me write a post like this is what's happening behind

631
00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:27,720
Speaker 2: the scenes at my home, and I just shared about

632
00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:29,760
Speaker 2: that we were going through divorce. I didn't give anything

633
00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:31,399
Speaker 2: more than just God's meeting me in the pain, but

634
00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:33,200
Speaker 2: this is our reality of our family. And I felt

635
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:34,800
Speaker 2: like the Lord say to me, send it to everyone

636
00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:37,280
Speaker 2: in your email list. And I was like, I didn't

637
00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:39,440
Speaker 2: realize that's what we're doing. God. You know, I don't

638
00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:40,639
Speaker 2: know if I can do that. But you know, when

639
00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:42,320
Speaker 2: God asked you to do something, you don't say no.

640
00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:44,720
Speaker 2: So I was like, okay, So I sent it, went

641
00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:46,920
Speaker 2: and took a shower and was like, what have I done?

642
00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:48,439
Speaker 2: The whole time in the shower, I'm like, I shouldn't

643
00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:49,800
Speaker 2: have sent that. I shouldn't have said that. I went

644
00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:52,320
Speaker 2: back to my email, so, like fifteen ten minutes later,

645
00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:55,080
Speaker 2: after I got dressed, I read all the responses. No

646
00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:57,439
Speaker 2: one's shaming me, but they were sharing with things with

647
00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:00,639
Speaker 2: me that they had never told anyone else. Vulnerability breathe vulnerability.

648
00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:02,520
Speaker 2: So as soon as I shared that, I was thinking

649
00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:04,560
Speaker 2: maybe there'd be some negative. I'm going to tell you

650
00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:06,879
Speaker 2: that I struggle with depression. I haven't told anyone that,

651
00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:08,280
Speaker 2: but since you were honest with me, I want to

652
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:11,280
Speaker 2: be honest with you. I wept as I read response

653
00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:15,359
Speaker 2: after response Donna of other people sharing with me their

654
00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:19,879
Speaker 2: deepest struggles because I was vulnerable first, and so I

655
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:21,200
Speaker 2: want to say to someone right now that's like, I

656
00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:24,080
Speaker 2: don't want to tell anyone. You're not going to receive

657
00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:27,320
Speaker 2: SHAMEE obviously tell someone that you trust, but they are

658
00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:29,359
Speaker 2: probably going to enter into it with you and share

659
00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:32,600
Speaker 2: something that they're going through. I believe vulnerability breeds vulnerability,

660
00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:35,560
Speaker 2: and when you can share it, you break free from

661
00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:37,480
Speaker 2: how Satan wants to you to be shackled to it.

662
00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:39,920
Speaker 2: Satan wants you to not tell anyone, keep it a secret.

663
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:42,040
Speaker 2: If anyone knows, they're not going to think any highly

664
00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:43,480
Speaker 2: of you anymore, or they're not going to want to

665
00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:46,200
Speaker 2: be your friend. Those are all lies. Those are all lies.

666
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:48,760
Speaker 2: We all have things we walk through, and if someone

667
00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:50,920
Speaker 2: is acting like that, then that's not a trusted person.

668
00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:52,600
Speaker 2: You want to be telling it too. You want to

669
00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:54,000
Speaker 2: tell it to someone that you know is going to

670
00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:56,480
Speaker 2: receive that and be there for you and enter into

671
00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:58,679
Speaker 2: it with you. But I'm telling you the responses that

672
00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:00,960
Speaker 2: day and it being the most beautiful day of healing

673
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:03,199
Speaker 2: for me is I thought, Wow. I thought I was

674
00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:07,280
Speaker 2: going to receive judgment and shame, and instead I grew

675
00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:09,840
Speaker 2: so close to these other people. And I'm going to

676
00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:11,840
Speaker 2: add another tree story here because this is such a

677
00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:14,879
Speaker 2: powerful one. The Sequoias here in California are the tallest

678
00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:16,359
Speaker 2: trees in the world. And when I went there with

679
00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:18,520
Speaker 2: my kids, I thought, oh, can you imagine how deep

680
00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:20,960
Speaker 2: these roots go? And the rangers like, no, they don't

681
00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:22,280
Speaker 2: go deep at all. And I was like, this is

682
00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:24,120
Speaker 2: my life message, Like what do you mean they don't

683
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:25,439
Speaker 2: go deep? And this is what he said to me.

684
00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:28,439
Speaker 2: They go wide and they interlock tree roots with the

685
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:32,320
Speaker 2: trees around them, they are stronger in community. So just

686
00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:34,040
Speaker 2: like we need our depth of faith with the Lord,

687
00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:36,760
Speaker 2: that intimacy with God, we need trusted friends that are

688
00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:38,960
Speaker 2: faith friends that we could interlock tree roots with and

689
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:41,120
Speaker 2: you can share those struggles and you could be honest

690
00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:42,640
Speaker 2: and say this is a crack in my pot or

691
00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:45,720
Speaker 2: this is something I've been hiding and keeping a secret

692
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:48,200
Speaker 2: for so long, but I want freedom for it. Can

693
00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:50,360
Speaker 2: I share this with you? And I just think it's

694
00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:52,760
Speaker 2: so healing when we can be that to each other,

695
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:55,760
Speaker 2: that community that Christian commutit. There shouldn't be judgment, There

696
00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:58,360
Speaker 2: shouldn't be shame heaped on you. And if there is,

697
00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:00,600
Speaker 2: I'm so sorry that's not the trusted and don't share

698
00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:02,000
Speaker 2: anymore with them. Find someone else.

699
00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:04,920
Speaker 1: I want to say something to that, because there will

700
00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:07,480
Speaker 1: be people who will shame you. There will be and

701
00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:11,720
Speaker 1: it always this is the great temptation is then to

702
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:16,080
Speaker 1: make that about you. But if a person is a

703
00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:20,400
Speaker 1: shaming person, and it's kind of like the Pharisees when

704
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:23,000
Speaker 1: the woman was caught in the act of adultery, they

705
00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:24,920
Speaker 1: were going to throw rocks at her. And I mean

706
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:28,720
Speaker 1: she had zinn for sure, but what is Jesus. Jesus

707
00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:34,320
Speaker 1: doesn't shame. Jesus saves. So when you get messages of shame,

708
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:39,840
Speaker 1: that is from the enemy. Now, conviction will cause us

709
00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:42,440
Speaker 1: to run to Jesus. We sometimes need to be convicted.

710
00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:48,360
Speaker 1: But condemnation is never from Jesus. So if you get

711
00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:53,400
Speaker 1: condemnation and shame from somebody that is not from the Savior,

712
00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:56,680
Speaker 1: that's not what he does. And if you're shaming someone

713
00:29:57,360 --> 00:30:00,040
Speaker 1: or condemning them, you need to realize, like, girl, I

714
00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:02,280
Speaker 1: knock it off because that's not the voice of the

715
00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:03,000
Speaker 1: Holy Spirit.

716
00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:06,400
Speaker 2: Like, yeah, there was one thing that happened at church

717
00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:08,880
Speaker 2: and I had a really strong support group, so I

718
00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:10,400
Speaker 2: reached out to him and said, I can't believe this

719
00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:12,960
Speaker 2: is happening. So there are but I would say if

720
00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:15,840
Speaker 2: it's someone that you trust, most likely they aren't going

721
00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:18,960
Speaker 2: to but yes, be carefully and I don't recommend putting

722
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:20,520
Speaker 2: it on an email to everyone you know, but that's

723
00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:22,320
Speaker 2: what the Lord had asked me to do. But just

724
00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:24,240
Speaker 2: seek him and ask him for wisdom on who to

725
00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:27,200
Speaker 2: talk to, and maybe you share something small first, see

726
00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:29,320
Speaker 2: if they're trusted, and then you can share the bigger thing.

727
00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:31,920
Speaker 2: If you're nervous, but you will not break free from

728
00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:34,840
Speaker 2: it if you never tell anyone, because Satan wants you

729
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:37,719
Speaker 2: to keep it a secret. That's his like, mo oh,

730
00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:40,240
Speaker 2: if they only knew. He kind of shamed you with

731
00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:42,520
Speaker 2: that way, and so that's not true. So I'm so

732
00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:44,400
Speaker 2: glad you jumped in, Donna. That was really good what

733
00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:46,520
Speaker 2: you added. Okay, I'll get through the last three letters

734
00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:49,239
Speaker 2: real quick. Gee, is give praise to God even as

735
00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:51,480
Speaker 2: your heart breaks. And this is so hard to do

736
00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:53,000
Speaker 2: because you're like, why would I want to praise the

737
00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:54,400
Speaker 2: Lord right now? I'm in the middle of grief. But

738
00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:56,600
Speaker 2: you're not praising God for the grief. You're praising Him

739
00:30:56,600 --> 00:30:58,360
Speaker 2: for his presence in the middle of it, or a

740
00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:01,000
Speaker 2: trusted friend that comes alongside you, or someone that brings

741
00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:03,280
Speaker 2: you a meal, or someone that stops by and asks

742
00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:05,640
Speaker 2: how you're doing, or comes and brings you I don't know,

743
00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:07,440
Speaker 2: I'd already said a meal, but maybe comes and does

744
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:09,720
Speaker 2: your laundry, or you know, there's so much to praise

745
00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:11,960
Speaker 2: the Lord for. And with my friend when she was

746
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:13,640
Speaker 2: getting close to the end of her life, I have

747
00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:15,560
Speaker 2: a chapter my book called A Gift of a Day,

748
00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:17,400
Speaker 2: and I thought I was taking her kids to my

749
00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:19,200
Speaker 2: home and we're going to go to this trampoline park

750
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:20,720
Speaker 2: and give her a day to rest. And she called

751
00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:22,360
Speaker 2: me that morning and said, I'm too weak to get

752
00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:24,400
Speaker 2: out of bed by myself. Can you bring the kids

753
00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:26,160
Speaker 2: here and just watch them here, and then you can

754
00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:27,760
Speaker 2: help me get up when I need to use the restroom.

755
00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:29,560
Speaker 2: I said, of course, of course. So end up having

756
00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:31,120
Speaker 2: a gift of a day with her that I didn't

757
00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:33,880
Speaker 2: have planned, and it was the most amazing time of

758
00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:36,240
Speaker 2: her and I talking to each other, sharing everything we

759
00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:39,000
Speaker 2: ever wanted to share. And then she asked me, will

760
00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:41,360
Speaker 2: you help me plan my service? And I'm telling you,

761
00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:43,440
Speaker 2: Donna like I get choked up even as I just

762
00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:45,480
Speaker 2: think of it. It was such a hard day, but

763
00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:48,760
Speaker 2: it was like this beautiful blessing of the Lord giving

764
00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:50,880
Speaker 2: me time with her because her time was coming to

765
00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:52,720
Speaker 2: an end. It was like less than two weeks before

766
00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:54,560
Speaker 2: she passed, and I got this gift of just her

767
00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:56,400
Speaker 2: and me and didn't praise the Lord because my friend

768
00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:58,320
Speaker 2: passed by. I praise the Lord for that gift of

769
00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:00,400
Speaker 2: a day that I didn't know I was going to get.

770
00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:03,600
Speaker 2: And so you gotta find the beautiful little gifts in

771
00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:05,600
Speaker 2: the middle of it. I call him blesses in the mess.

772
00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:07,480
Speaker 2: There are going to be some blesses in the mess,

773
00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:09,360
Speaker 2: but find them and then praise the Lord for those.

774
00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:11,080
Speaker 2: You're not praising him for the hard thing you're in,

775
00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:12,920
Speaker 2: but you're praising them for the blessings. And there's a

776
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:15,200
Speaker 2: song praise you in this storm by casting crowns that

777
00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:17,480
Speaker 2: I would just sing to out loud and just say, Lord,

778
00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:19,360
Speaker 2: I'm just going to praise you even though this is

779
00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:22,480
Speaker 2: still happening. And there's something powerful about praising the Lord

780
00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:23,840
Speaker 2: in the middle of it. I don't know how to

781
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:27,520
Speaker 2: explain it. It's just healing. It's really beautiful, and again,

782
00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:29,680
Speaker 2: not for the actual thing, but for his presence or

783
00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:32,000
Speaker 2: for a friend or whatever you can find the little

784
00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:33,960
Speaker 2: tiny gifts in the middle of it. Tea is trust.

785
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:35,880
Speaker 2: God is good when your mind is doubting and you

786
00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:38,600
Speaker 2: don't understand. And this is so hard because you're just

787
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:41,160
Speaker 2: like why and the doubts. But I think that if

788
00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:43,600
Speaker 2: we can just say God, I don't understand, but I

789
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:46,600
Speaker 2: trust you, that's a powerful statement of our faith. And

790
00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:49,120
Speaker 2: it's not right away. I put this is a second tea.

791
00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:51,600
Speaker 2: There's two teas and strength. The first tea is grieving

792
00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:53,520
Speaker 2: it and allowing yourself to process it. But they'll become

793
00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:55,240
Speaker 2: a time where you've got to change your why to

794
00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:57,960
Speaker 2: what now, and that leads to h honestly share your

795
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:00,760
Speaker 2: story and help another hurting heart. I'm telling you, the

796
00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:03,760
Speaker 2: healing comes full circle when you can talk to another

797
00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:06,000
Speaker 2: person and help them along their journey. I like to

798
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:07,800
Speaker 2: think of it like a bridge, and sometimes we're the

799
00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:09,760
Speaker 2: one on the bridge and someone comes alongside and helps

800
00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:12,000
Speaker 2: us across, and then it's our job to go back

801
00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:13,920
Speaker 2: and help the next person across. And if we do that,

802
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:16,280
Speaker 2: just think of the ripple effects of how we can

803
00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:18,400
Speaker 2: use our pain to help others. It's one of the

804
00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:20,600
Speaker 2: ways God redeems it. It's one of the ways he

805
00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:23,480
Speaker 2: brings purpose to it, and it's very healing to your

806
00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:25,320
Speaker 2: heart when it happens.

807
00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:27,920
Speaker 1: So good. Okay, So I want to just go through

808
00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:28,800
Speaker 1: these really quickly.

809
00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:32,840
Speaker 2: S is seek God and invite them into the pain.

810
00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:36,360
Speaker 1: Okay. T is take time to grieve.

811
00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:39,080
Speaker 2: Tearfully, allow yourself time to grieve and process the emotions.

812
00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:43,120
Speaker 2: And then R is replace your finite view with God's

813
00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:46,640
Speaker 2: infinite perspective. That's that perspective piece okay, and then e

814
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:49,160
Speaker 2: embrace your character develpment God's going to do in your

815
00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:51,720
Speaker 2: life in the middle of it, okay. And then n

816
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:53,560
Speaker 2: never lose sight of God's grace.

817
00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:54,760
Speaker 1: Oh that's right.

818
00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:57,800
Speaker 2: And then g give praise to God even as your

819
00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:01,680
Speaker 2: heart breaks. And then t is trust God is good

820
00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:04,400
Speaker 2: when your mind is doubting and you don't understand. And

821
00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:08,000
Speaker 2: then h honestly share your story and help another hurting heart.

822
00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:11,520
Speaker 1: Okay, so good, so good? Okay, Jody, thank you so

823
00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:15,879
Speaker 1: much for really doing what you're telling us to do.

824
00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:20,160
Speaker 1: I have walked through all of those things, grieving, lamenting,

825
00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:25,279
Speaker 1: taking time, healing, strengthening yourself, growing deep, and then now

826
00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:28,480
Speaker 1: being that bridge where like you're going back and helping

827
00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:32,200
Speaker 1: somebody else get through the heartbreak and not just get

828
00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:33,879
Speaker 1: through it with healing, but get through it with true

829
00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:34,760
Speaker 1: depth and growth.

830
00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:37,719
Speaker 2: So thank you so much for sharing with us. I'm

831
00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:39,640
Speaker 2: so glad too, and thank you for having me Donna.

832
00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:40,720
Speaker 2: I hope this was helpful.

833
00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:47,080
Speaker 1: It was, wasn't that a great conversation? As a reminder,

834
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:50,680
Speaker 1: hit subscribe on this podcast and think of that person

835
00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:53,400
Speaker 1: that you can share this episode with. Share that with them,

836
00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:57,280
Speaker 1: right now and if we aren't connected on Instagram or Facebook,

837
00:34:57,400 --> 00:34:59,719
Speaker 1: let's do that today. You'll find me on Instagram at

838
00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:02,359
Speaker 1: donn I'm at A Jones. On Facebook I'm at Donna Jones,

839
00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:05,120
Speaker 1: Speaker and Author, or jump over to my website Donna

840
00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:09,080
Speaker 1: Jones dot org. And as always, my friend, I can't

841
00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:11,600
Speaker 1: wait to see you next time, for that's just what

842
00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:12,120
Speaker 1: I needed