1 00:00:02,710 --> 00:00:03,670 Speaker 1: Life Audio. 2 00:00:05,590 --> 00:00:08,000 Speaker 2: What does it look like to know God? 3 00:00:08,050 --> 00:00:10,819 Speaker 3: And no, I'm not just talking about intellectually knowing him, 4 00:00:10,860 --> 00:00:15,520 Speaker 3: but intimately knowing him. Knowing him, yes, as sheep to 5 00:00:15,540 --> 00:00:18,220 Speaker 3: their shepherd, as a friend to a friend, as a 6 00:00:18,300 --> 00:00:20,920 Speaker 3: bride to her bridegroom. We are going to be talking 7 00:00:20,940 --> 00:00:27,870 Speaker 3: about that and more in today's episode. Hello, hello, hello, 8 00:00:27,990 --> 00:00:30,350 Speaker 3: ladies and gents, and welcome to this week's episode of 9 00:00:30,390 --> 00:00:33,430 Speaker 3: the Bottom Beloved Podcast. As always, it's your girl, Kirby Kelly, 10 00:00:33,790 --> 00:00:36,669 Speaker 3: back at it again. And I'm so pumped because I 11 00:00:36,720 --> 00:00:40,100 Speaker 3: have had the privilege of having John Eldridge on my podcast, 12 00:00:40,140 --> 00:00:44,240 Speaker 3: but now I'm having Stacey Eldridge join me on the podcast. 13 00:00:44,300 --> 00:00:47,000 Speaker 3: And she has a new book that is coming out shortly, 14 00:00:47,060 --> 00:00:49,220 Speaker 3: like here in a few weeks. You can pre-order it now. 15 00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:52,620 Speaker 3: It's called The Ladder of Love. And it's all about 16 00:00:53,020 --> 00:00:56,400 Speaker 3: intimacy with Christ. It's about spiritual healing, but it's also 17 00:00:56,500 --> 00:01:00,900 Speaker 3: about deeply knowing him in a new way. Some of 18 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:05,020 Speaker 3: us know him as a sheep relates to the shepherd 19 00:01:05,100 --> 00:01:07,470 Speaker 3: or as a friend relates to a friend. But what 20 00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:08,990 Speaker 3: does it look like to also relate to him as 21 00:01:09,110 --> 00:01:12,250 Speaker 3: father or maybe as a bride to her bridegroom or 22 00:01:12,670 --> 00:01:15,270 Speaker 3: the clay to the potter? We're going to get into 23 00:01:15,490 --> 00:01:17,970 Speaker 3: all of that and more. But before we do, Stacey, 24 00:01:18,069 --> 00:01:19,890 Speaker 3: welcome to the podcast. Can you let us know a 25 00:01:19,890 --> 00:01:22,310 Speaker 3: little bit about who you are, what you do, and 26 00:01:22,350 --> 00:01:23,850 Speaker 3: what it is that you are passionate about. 27 00:01:24,209 --> 00:01:27,910 Speaker 1: So Stacey Eldridge, co-founder of the ministry Wild at Heart 28 00:01:27,990 --> 00:01:30,530 Speaker 1: with my husband, John, who is the author of that book. 29 00:01:31,170 --> 00:01:34,610 Speaker 1: And we've been doing this ministry for about 25 years. 30 00:01:34,950 --> 00:01:39,070 Speaker 1: It's a ministry based on Isaiah 61, that Jesus came 31 00:01:39,090 --> 00:01:42,860 Speaker 1: to heal the brokenhearted, set the captives free. I love 32 00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:45,900 Speaker 1: what we get to do. I'm best known for the 33 00:01:45,980 --> 00:01:49,340 Speaker 1: book that I co-authored with John called Captivating. which has 34 00:01:49,380 --> 00:01:52,120 Speaker 1: been out for over 20 years now. So I'm an 35 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:55,900 Speaker 1: author and a speaker and a teacher and a mother 36 00:01:56,060 --> 00:01:57,470 Speaker 1: and a grandmother. 37 00:01:57,940 --> 00:01:58,280 Speaker 2: Yes. 38 00:01:58,720 --> 00:02:01,950 Speaker 1: So I'm here as a mama on your fabulous podcast, 39 00:02:01,990 --> 00:02:03,990 Speaker 1: by the way. I love it. You do. So I 40 00:02:04,130 --> 00:02:09,489 Speaker 1: have eight grandchildren and one on the way. That's a 41 00:02:09,610 --> 00:02:11,250 Speaker 1: little snapshot of who I am. 42 00:02:12,220 --> 00:02:15,119 Speaker 3: That is such an exciting season to be in. And 43 00:02:15,260 --> 00:02:16,800 Speaker 3: along with having a little one on the way, you 44 00:02:16,900 --> 00:02:19,820 Speaker 3: have a book on the way. And that is also 45 00:02:19,870 --> 00:02:20,710 Speaker 3: a labor of love. 46 00:02:20,850 --> 00:02:21,709 Speaker 2: I know that for sure. 47 00:02:21,830 --> 00:02:22,110 Speaker 1: Yes. 48 00:02:22,610 --> 00:02:24,930 Speaker 2: But before we even get into the framework. 49 00:02:24,750 --> 00:02:26,490 Speaker 3: Of the book, because I love the way that you 50 00:02:26,550 --> 00:02:29,510 Speaker 3: do frame the book and how it builds with the 51 00:02:29,570 --> 00:02:33,090 Speaker 3: imagery of the ladder, where did the ladder of love 52 00:02:33,180 --> 00:02:34,820 Speaker 3: come from personally for you? 53 00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:36,920 Speaker 2: What was God doing in your own relationships? 54 00:02:37,820 --> 00:02:40,679 Speaker 3: Between you and him that made you realize, dang, this 55 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:41,739 Speaker 3: is a book that I need to write. 56 00:02:42,020 --> 00:02:45,740 Speaker 1: That's good. This is, this is my journey with God. 57 00:02:46,560 --> 00:02:50,570 Speaker 1: The invitation to come to know him more deeply and 58 00:02:50,690 --> 00:02:54,350 Speaker 1: in the different ways that he reveals himself to us 59 00:02:54,430 --> 00:02:58,090 Speaker 1: in the scriptures. What happened for me, Kirby, was about 60 00:02:58,090 --> 00:03:01,590 Speaker 1: 30 years ago, I noticed that my friends were praying 61 00:03:01,830 --> 00:03:04,959 Speaker 1: to father or papa or Abba. And I always prayed 62 00:03:04,980 --> 00:03:07,520 Speaker 1: to Jesus. I mean, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus. He's, He's how 63 00:03:07,600 --> 00:03:11,619 Speaker 1: I came in, and that's how my love started was 64 00:03:11,660 --> 00:03:14,870 Speaker 1: with him. And I was like, why are they praying 65 00:03:14,910 --> 00:03:17,510 Speaker 1: to him? Why are they praying to the Father? And 66 00:03:17,570 --> 00:03:22,410 Speaker 1: I realized I didn't know God as my Father, but 67 00:03:22,530 --> 00:03:25,810 Speaker 1: I wanted to. I realized I'm really missing out on something. 68 00:03:26,360 --> 00:03:28,940 Speaker 1: So that propelled me on a journey to come to 69 00:03:29,020 --> 00:03:34,850 Speaker 1: know him as that for me. And that journey and 70 00:03:34,890 --> 00:03:37,290 Speaker 1: what that required of me and then what was bestowed 71 00:03:37,370 --> 00:03:40,510 Speaker 1: on me changed my life. I ended up saying to Jesus, 72 00:03:40,610 --> 00:03:42,010 Speaker 1: I still love you, but I got a thing for 73 00:03:42,030 --> 00:03:45,770 Speaker 1: your dad. I hope you don't mind. And he's like, 74 00:03:45,990 --> 00:03:49,290 Speaker 1: you know, of course, he's thrilled. So that was the 75 00:03:49,330 --> 00:03:52,430 Speaker 1: beginning of the journey. And then my own faith journey 76 00:03:52,570 --> 00:03:58,490 Speaker 1: is one of drawing closer to God in intimate worship. 77 00:03:58,690 --> 00:04:02,010 Speaker 1: That is how I connect to him. And so that 78 00:04:02,150 --> 00:04:05,589 Speaker 1: is what propelled me into life and to knowing that 79 00:04:05,670 --> 00:04:09,930 Speaker 1: actually in knowing God, not just the facts about him, 80 00:04:09,950 --> 00:04:15,180 Speaker 1: but experiencing him, that's where life is found. So that's 81 00:04:15,220 --> 00:04:16,220 Speaker 1: where the book comes from. 82 00:04:17,220 --> 00:04:17,860 Speaker 2: Absolutely. 83 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:19,640 Speaker 3: And I know that there are a lot of Christians 84 00:04:19,779 --> 00:04:22,440 Speaker 3: out there who maybe have grown up in the faith 85 00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:25,140 Speaker 3: their whole life. And so when it comes to knowing God, 86 00:04:25,500 --> 00:04:28,380 Speaker 3: like you were saying, there is that difference between knowing 87 00:04:28,460 --> 00:04:31,760 Speaker 3: him and the sense of knowing about him. knowing the scriptures, 88 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:33,460 Speaker 3: being able to quote these things because you grew up 89 00:04:33,500 --> 00:04:36,010 Speaker 3: doing the Bible Bee or whatever. You know, maybe your 90 00:04:36,050 --> 00:04:38,030 Speaker 3: dad is the pastor, so it's like it was just 91 00:04:38,089 --> 00:04:40,310 Speaker 3: ingrained in your household and in your life. But then 92 00:04:40,330 --> 00:04:44,670 Speaker 3: there's the difference between knowing God intimately, like you talk 93 00:04:44,710 --> 00:04:47,350 Speaker 3: about in your book. And there are some people who 94 00:04:47,370 --> 00:04:49,630 Speaker 3: might be listening today that are like, I know about God, 95 00:04:49,670 --> 00:04:53,800 Speaker 3: but when it comes to knowing him privately, there's that 96 00:04:53,920 --> 00:04:57,150 Speaker 3: that Yes. What do you think it is that might 97 00:04:57,190 --> 00:05:00,110 Speaker 3: be missing in the believer's life if they feel like 98 00:05:00,150 --> 00:05:04,489 Speaker 3: there is that distance of knowing about God versus knowing 99 00:05:04,570 --> 00:05:05,470 Speaker 3: him intimately? 100 00:05:05,490 --> 00:05:07,870 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think there's a few things. And one of 101 00:05:07,930 --> 00:05:12,370 Speaker 1: the first is not knowing that it's available or that 102 00:05:12,410 --> 00:05:17,250 Speaker 1: it's what God wants. And he is always saying, come closer, 103 00:05:17,540 --> 00:05:20,240 Speaker 1: come closer. This is where life is found. Jesus said, 104 00:05:20,279 --> 00:05:23,550 Speaker 1: this is eternal life that you know me. And that 105 00:05:23,589 --> 00:05:27,630 Speaker 1: word know is experience. Know by experience. You can know 106 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:30,220 Speaker 1: about the ocean. I grew up in Kansas. I knew 107 00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:32,560 Speaker 1: a lot of facts about the ocean. But when I 108 00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:35,460 Speaker 1: came to California for a vacation, I jumped in it. 109 00:05:36,040 --> 00:05:38,340 Speaker 1: I got to know it in a different way. So 110 00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:43,050 Speaker 1: first is to know that it's not only available, but 111 00:05:43,070 --> 00:05:46,809 Speaker 1: that God wants it. And then there's a couple other 112 00:05:46,850 --> 00:05:50,609 Speaker 1: things that get in the way. There's our story of love. 113 00:05:51,410 --> 00:05:53,970 Speaker 1: There's the ways that we have received wounds in our 114 00:05:54,029 --> 00:05:57,670 Speaker 1: life that can make us feel unworthy or make us 115 00:05:57,690 --> 00:06:00,860 Speaker 1: want to keep our distance from God because we've learned 116 00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:05,020 Speaker 1: him wrongly. And in fact, I think the whole journey 117 00:06:05,060 --> 00:06:07,540 Speaker 1: of our lives, Kirby, is coming to know him rightly, 118 00:06:08,100 --> 00:06:11,650 Speaker 1: which is what he wants. There can be shame that's 119 00:06:11,690 --> 00:06:13,850 Speaker 1: in the way of us coming to know God. There 120 00:06:13,870 --> 00:06:17,480 Speaker 1: could be things that we've done or said. that make 121 00:06:17,540 --> 00:06:20,240 Speaker 1: us feel unworthy of coming close. We may have had 122 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:24,120 Speaker 1: bad teaching that said, come close when you get your 123 00:06:24,220 --> 00:06:28,010 Speaker 1: act together. Whereas God says, come boldly to the throne room. 124 00:06:28,810 --> 00:06:31,850 Speaker 1: And we also live in a world that is not 125 00:06:32,190 --> 00:06:36,030 Speaker 1: friendly to our relationship with God. There's the world that's 126 00:06:36,070 --> 00:06:39,270 Speaker 1: coming against us and there's the evil one. The enemy's 127 00:06:39,330 --> 00:06:42,940 Speaker 1: whole purpose is to divide us from God and to 128 00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:47,210 Speaker 1: keep us from believing that I'm loved. Like the person, listen, 129 00:06:47,250 --> 00:06:49,850 Speaker 1: you can say it. I'm loved. The God of the universe, 130 00:06:49,890 --> 00:06:53,719 Speaker 1: the creator of the cosmos came for me. It's easy 131 00:06:53,860 --> 00:06:58,220 Speaker 1: to believe for other people, but turning that inward and 132 00:06:58,260 --> 00:07:01,640 Speaker 1: beginning to marinate, swimming in the ocean of his love 133 00:07:02,140 --> 00:07:03,900 Speaker 1: is what is available. 134 00:07:05,760 --> 00:07:09,800 Speaker 3: For someone who's listening, who may have been deeply hurt 135 00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:12,930 Speaker 3: by a father or a mother or a spouse or 136 00:07:12,940 --> 00:07:15,590 Speaker 3: a church leader or you know, someone who was supposed 137 00:07:15,630 --> 00:07:19,680 Speaker 3: to love them well, how can they keep that person's 138 00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:23,080 Speaker 3: failure from becoming the lens in which they interpret God? 139 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:25,480 Speaker 3: Because I know a lot of people who have these 140 00:07:25,580 --> 00:07:28,220 Speaker 3: wounds in their life. And then when it comes to 141 00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:33,100 Speaker 3: God and his authority or his sovereignty or his title 142 00:07:33,180 --> 00:07:37,160 Speaker 3: of father, like you talked about, And it's easy to 143 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:39,700 Speaker 3: just cast that upon him and to view him through 144 00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:43,420 Speaker 3: that incorrect lens. But how do we go about healing 145 00:07:43,660 --> 00:07:45,680 Speaker 3: that lens and seeing God rightly? 146 00:07:46,120 --> 00:07:48,490 Speaker 1: That's so important. And I just want to tell people 147 00:07:48,510 --> 00:07:51,210 Speaker 1: you're not alone in that. That's pretty much the human 148 00:07:51,270 --> 00:07:57,290 Speaker 1: condition to various levels from being mildly neglected to being 149 00:07:57,450 --> 00:08:02,250 Speaker 1: horribly abused. And then who hasn't known betrayal of some kind? 150 00:08:02,980 --> 00:08:05,950 Speaker 1: So I'll go back to Isaiah 61. where Jesus said, 151 00:08:05,990 --> 00:08:09,090 Speaker 1: I have come to heal the brokenhearted. He came for 152 00:08:09,190 --> 00:08:13,210 Speaker 1: our hearts. He didn't come to scrap them. He came 153 00:08:13,240 --> 00:08:17,740 Speaker 1: to heal them and restore us. That's what he's about. 154 00:08:18,380 --> 00:08:20,760 Speaker 1: So the first thing I would encourage people to do 155 00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:26,460 Speaker 1: is to honor their story, to validate their pain, and 156 00:08:26,500 --> 00:08:29,950 Speaker 1: to look at what were the wounds they received, and 157 00:08:29,990 --> 00:08:33,260 Speaker 1: then what were the messages that came with them. They're 158 00:08:33,280 --> 00:08:36,610 Speaker 1: generally messages about who you are and who you will 159 00:08:36,630 --> 00:08:41,969 Speaker 1: never be, and they're not nice. They can be extremely cruel. 160 00:08:42,790 --> 00:08:46,410 Speaker 1: To consider the possibility that that is not how God 161 00:08:46,450 --> 00:08:50,069 Speaker 1: feels about you, and that's not his voice. Actually, God's 162 00:08:50,110 --> 00:08:54,510 Speaker 1: voice is never condemning, ever, and it's never shameful. But 163 00:08:54,550 --> 00:08:58,120 Speaker 1: we have to look. We have to do some excavating 164 00:08:58,840 --> 00:09:01,900 Speaker 1: and kind of realize what were the messages I received 165 00:09:02,290 --> 00:09:07,560 Speaker 1: And then invite Jesus in there to heal you. He 166 00:09:07,600 --> 00:09:10,260 Speaker 1: says in Revelations 3.20 that I stand at the door 167 00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:12,460 Speaker 1: and knock. If anybody opens the door, I'll come in 168 00:09:12,500 --> 00:09:15,490 Speaker 1: and hang out with them, be with them. And we 169 00:09:15,570 --> 00:09:20,650 Speaker 1: use that verse generally for new believers coming into the kingdom. 170 00:09:20,670 --> 00:09:26,590 Speaker 1: But it's written to Christians. And Jesus is knocking. He'll 171 00:09:26,630 --> 00:09:28,130 Speaker 1: knock on grief. 172 00:09:28,170 --> 00:09:28,500 Speaker 2: Grief. 173 00:09:30,020 --> 00:09:34,240 Speaker 1: He'll knock on something that happens that is so close 174 00:09:34,900 --> 00:09:38,400 Speaker 1: to a wound we received earlier that it ignites that 175 00:09:38,440 --> 00:09:41,570 Speaker 1: memory and that pain. And he's not being cruel. He's 176 00:09:41,590 --> 00:09:45,510 Speaker 1: just very fierce and intentional about our healing. He's like, 177 00:09:45,890 --> 00:09:48,310 Speaker 1: I have to get to that. He doesn't want us 178 00:09:48,670 --> 00:09:53,390 Speaker 1: living with messages or names that other people have named 179 00:09:53,410 --> 00:09:55,510 Speaker 1: us or that we've named ourselves. He wants to call 180 00:09:55,590 --> 00:10:00,920 Speaker 1: us out. So really, it's to honor your story. validate 181 00:10:00,940 --> 00:10:05,350 Speaker 1: your pain, not diminish it, invite Jesus in to do 182 00:10:05,570 --> 00:10:07,469 Speaker 1: what he came to do and to heal you, and 183 00:10:08,090 --> 00:10:11,190 Speaker 1: then ask that you might learn him rightly. 184 00:10:11,210 --> 00:10:13,610 Speaker 2: I love that. 185 00:10:14,190 --> 00:10:17,270 Speaker 3: I kind of want to touch on the theme of 186 00:10:17,330 --> 00:10:19,630 Speaker 3: the book or the imagery throughout the book in which 187 00:10:19,670 --> 00:10:20,830 Speaker 3: you title your book, right? 188 00:10:21,170 --> 00:10:22,130 Speaker 2: The ladder of love. 189 00:10:23,330 --> 00:10:26,270 Speaker 3: Can you walk us through the ladder of love and 190 00:10:26,340 --> 00:10:31,520 Speaker 3: why you believe scripture reveals the progression of intimacy with God, 191 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:32,459 Speaker 3: what that looks like? 192 00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:33,360 Speaker 2: Because I love that. 193 00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:35,480 Speaker 3: I love how you talk about the different rungs and 194 00:10:35,500 --> 00:10:38,380 Speaker 3: just relationship to God and how it's detailed throughout the book. 195 00:10:38,620 --> 00:10:40,980 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's good. So a ladder in the natural realm 196 00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:44,410 Speaker 1: has to be On a flat surface, or it's going 197 00:10:44,429 --> 00:10:47,309 Speaker 1: to be dangerous to climb. So say we have a 198 00:10:47,370 --> 00:10:51,150 Speaker 1: spiritual ladder. We don't want to place that on our 199 00:10:51,250 --> 00:10:56,110 Speaker 1: finances or our relationships or our work or anything. We 200 00:10:56,170 --> 00:10:59,620 Speaker 1: want to place that on Jesus Christ and what he 201 00:10:59,650 --> 00:11:02,600 Speaker 1: has said. That's our firm foundation. Like, what does he 202 00:11:02,630 --> 00:11:05,600 Speaker 1: say is true? So the first rung, how we enter 203 00:11:05,640 --> 00:11:08,400 Speaker 1: into relationship or coming to know God as he presents 204 00:11:08,440 --> 00:11:13,830 Speaker 1: himself is we're clay. he's the potter and he is 205 00:11:14,030 --> 00:11:18,770 Speaker 1: shaping us. He's crafting us. He is not a novice potter, 206 00:11:18,809 --> 00:11:23,790 Speaker 1: but a master creator. So what he makes is stunningly beautiful. 207 00:11:24,340 --> 00:11:28,719 Speaker 1: And that's us. We, we are being formed and shaped. 208 00:11:29,120 --> 00:11:32,260 Speaker 1: And yes, there are times when we break and shatter 209 00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:35,239 Speaker 1: the process, but he is the God of restoration. I 210 00:11:35,300 --> 00:11:38,980 Speaker 1: love Kintsugi and the image of that. The Japanese is like, 211 00:11:39,970 --> 00:11:44,370 Speaker 1: It fills it in with gold. It doesn't diminish what happened, 212 00:11:44,390 --> 00:11:47,470 Speaker 1: but it highlights it. That's part of your story. And 213 00:11:47,490 --> 00:11:51,650 Speaker 1: then he forms our bodies as well, that we are 214 00:11:51,830 --> 00:11:55,210 Speaker 1: bearers of the image of God. Now, on a bottom rung, 215 00:11:55,250 --> 00:11:58,830 Speaker 1: that's how we enter in, but we never lose it. 216 00:11:59,330 --> 00:12:01,610 Speaker 1: You never lose the rungs on the ladder. They're essential 217 00:12:01,650 --> 00:12:04,819 Speaker 1: to your climbing. So we are clay, but then we 218 00:12:04,880 --> 00:12:09,250 Speaker 1: move up to sheep. Clay is an inanimate object. Now 219 00:12:09,270 --> 00:12:13,609 Speaker 1: we're moving up in intimacy. We are alive. And we're 220 00:12:13,670 --> 00:12:16,360 Speaker 1: able to hear his voice. We're able to learn it, 221 00:12:16,880 --> 00:12:20,080 Speaker 1: recognize it, follow him. And we come to know him 222 00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:24,339 Speaker 1: as our protector, our guide, our shepherd. Some translations call 223 00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:27,760 Speaker 1: it my best friend. And then I lack nothing. He 224 00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:31,780 Speaker 1: wants to reveal himself to us as our good shepherd 225 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:35,380 Speaker 1: throughout our whole lives. We're members of his flock. But 226 00:12:35,460 --> 00:12:40,160 Speaker 1: then we climb higher. And we ascend to servant, which 227 00:12:40,340 --> 00:12:43,000 Speaker 1: I like to title as devoted one, because there's just 228 00:12:43,040 --> 00:12:46,560 Speaker 1: something about the name servant that's not that appealing. But 229 00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:49,600 Speaker 1: now we're not only alive, now we're a human being. 230 00:12:50,340 --> 00:12:53,840 Speaker 1: And he's just pulling us closer and up higher to 231 00:12:53,940 --> 00:12:58,020 Speaker 1: know him in new ways. A sheep doesn't necessarily offer 232 00:12:58,120 --> 00:13:03,030 Speaker 1: anything back to the shepherd, but a servant of God, 233 00:13:03,090 --> 00:13:07,179 Speaker 1: a devoted follower offers their heart to him and It's 234 00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:10,520 Speaker 1: all meant to flow from a heart of worship, not 235 00:13:10,620 --> 00:13:13,280 Speaker 1: out of duty. We're not serving him in the various 236 00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:16,439 Speaker 1: and myriad ways that we've been equipped and called to do, 237 00:13:17,300 --> 00:13:20,650 Speaker 1: out of duty and trying to earn something from him 238 00:13:21,170 --> 00:13:24,250 Speaker 1: or get some approval. We're doing it out of a 239 00:13:24,330 --> 00:13:29,370 Speaker 1: response to have been won and sought after and loved. 240 00:13:30,210 --> 00:13:33,790 Speaker 1: So that's the difference. And then we have a, he 241 00:13:33,830 --> 00:13:36,160 Speaker 1: is our master, but he is a master who serves 242 00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:41,020 Speaker 1: us So getting to know him like that can be profound. 243 00:13:41,640 --> 00:13:47,300 Speaker 1: A lot of people stay on that rung. Yep. And 244 00:13:47,520 --> 00:13:51,250 Speaker 1: it's not a bad rung. You're motivated. You love him. 245 00:13:51,270 --> 00:13:53,710 Speaker 1: You want to serve him. But it's too easy to 246 00:13:53,809 --> 00:13:58,150 Speaker 1: think that your relationship with God is based on what 247 00:13:58,170 --> 00:13:58,530 Speaker 1: you do. 248 00:13:59,290 --> 00:13:59,490 Speaker 3: Yes. 249 00:13:59,790 --> 00:14:02,710 Speaker 1: The story of Mary and Martha, that's a great example. 250 00:14:02,750 --> 00:14:06,560 Speaker 1: Martha loved God. She was a sincere follower of Jesus. 251 00:14:07,160 --> 00:14:10,900 Speaker 1: But she's an image of the church that has substituted 252 00:14:11,400 --> 00:14:16,829 Speaker 1: service for Jesus for relationship with him. And what Jesus 253 00:14:16,870 --> 00:14:20,850 Speaker 1: says is the priority is relationship with him. Then you 254 00:14:20,870 --> 00:14:24,910 Speaker 1: climb higher. And you climb higher to child. He is 255 00:14:25,150 --> 00:14:28,609 Speaker 1: our good father. And this is the beginning of the 256 00:14:28,670 --> 00:14:32,370 Speaker 1: places where we probably have some excavating to do. Where 257 00:14:32,390 --> 00:14:34,850 Speaker 1: the story of our life has warped our perception of 258 00:14:34,950 --> 00:14:40,040 Speaker 1: what father is. Now a servant is a person, but 259 00:14:40,060 --> 00:14:41,660 Speaker 1: they have to come in the back door. They wipe 260 00:14:41,680 --> 00:14:43,960 Speaker 1: their feet before they come in. A child, on the 261 00:14:44,020 --> 00:14:47,640 Speaker 1: other hand, busts through the front door and is free 262 00:14:47,660 --> 00:14:49,760 Speaker 1: to jump on his lap and come to the throne 263 00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:54,540 Speaker 1: room boldly. I love Timothy Keller's quote about the only 264 00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:58,710 Speaker 1: person who can wake a king at three in the 265 00:14:58,750 --> 00:15:02,350 Speaker 1: morning for a glass of water is a child. We 266 00:15:02,370 --> 00:15:06,550 Speaker 1: have that kind of access. So coming to know him 267 00:15:06,690 --> 00:15:10,630 Speaker 1: in that way, that he delights in us, not for 268 00:15:10,670 --> 00:15:14,560 Speaker 1: what we do, but because we exist. And then the 269 00:15:14,640 --> 00:15:17,940 Speaker 1: invitation to come alive in his provision and his love 270 00:15:18,060 --> 00:15:24,060 Speaker 1: and to reignite play and childlikeness in our heart. Next 271 00:15:24,120 --> 00:15:28,760 Speaker 1: rung would be sibling. Getting to know Jesus. He is 272 00:15:28,820 --> 00:15:32,780 Speaker 1: our brother. We share the same father. We are siblings. 273 00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:35,940 Speaker 1: And like many do in their families, we have a 274 00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:42,060 Speaker 1: family resemblance. We're actually meant to look like him. And brothers, sisters, 275 00:15:42,180 --> 00:15:45,060 Speaker 1: they know the inside scoop. They know the true story. 276 00:15:45,300 --> 00:15:47,530 Speaker 1: The parents might not even know it, but they know it. 277 00:15:48,020 --> 00:15:49,940 Speaker 1: And you can look across the room and just get 278 00:15:49,980 --> 00:15:51,990 Speaker 1: a look and, yeah, I know where you're going with that. 279 00:15:53,750 --> 00:15:57,229 Speaker 1: But we climb higher. So we go up to friend, 280 00:15:57,470 --> 00:16:01,630 Speaker 1: which is an immeasurable honor that Jesus is not only 281 00:16:01,810 --> 00:16:05,030 Speaker 1: our friend, but But he says we are his friend. 282 00:16:06,250 --> 00:16:09,500 Speaker 1: So to unpack, what does it mean to be Jesus' friend? 283 00:16:10,260 --> 00:16:12,739 Speaker 1: What is it that he wants with me? Well, he 284 00:16:12,780 --> 00:16:17,100 Speaker 1: wants a reciprocal relationship. And again, there's excavating to be 285 00:16:17,140 --> 00:16:19,080 Speaker 1: done here because I don't know a person who has 286 00:16:19,160 --> 00:16:23,090 Speaker 1: not known betrayal and pain in the place of friendship. 287 00:16:24,450 --> 00:16:27,430 Speaker 1: And it can be done. It can be exposed. And 288 00:16:27,490 --> 00:16:32,800 Speaker 1: under the merciful gaze, the love... can replace the lies. 289 00:16:33,710 --> 00:16:36,070 Speaker 1: It's like the name of your podcast, that we are 290 00:16:36,130 --> 00:16:39,729 Speaker 1: bought and beloved, that we are the beloved of God. 291 00:16:40,230 --> 00:16:42,890 Speaker 1: So I love pursuing what it means to be a 292 00:16:43,030 --> 00:16:48,120 Speaker 1: friend of Jesus' because it's fabulous. It's an incredible extension 293 00:16:48,380 --> 00:16:51,460 Speaker 1: that was unheard of in biblical times. And then we 294 00:16:51,500 --> 00:16:57,000 Speaker 1: go up. We go up to bride. And my, listen, 295 00:16:57,240 --> 00:17:02,270 Speaker 1: male listeners, this is not about lace wedding gown and 296 00:17:02,330 --> 00:17:05,410 Speaker 1: flowers in your hair. This is about the proximity that 297 00:17:05,430 --> 00:17:08,850 Speaker 1: we have to the heart of God. There's no one 298 00:17:09,030 --> 00:17:12,490 Speaker 1: closer to his heart. And we are called to be 299 00:17:12,530 --> 00:17:18,149 Speaker 1: his worshipers, but to be his counterpart, to be the 300 00:17:18,170 --> 00:17:23,090 Speaker 1: one crazily who completes him and who partners with him 301 00:17:23,170 --> 00:17:26,520 Speaker 1: in bringing his kingdom wherever we go. Now, I believe 302 00:17:26,540 --> 00:17:28,899 Speaker 1: that the ladder of love, that's the culmination. The church 303 00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:31,580 Speaker 1: is the bride of Christ. But that through all eternity, 304 00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:36,080 Speaker 1: we're going to climb higher and know God more deeply forever. 305 00:17:37,980 --> 00:17:42,180 Speaker 3: So good. I love that progression because it shows kind 306 00:17:42,200 --> 00:17:44,609 Speaker 3: of like you were saying, like starting from this point 307 00:17:44,730 --> 00:17:48,530 Speaker 3: of clay where it's this like malleable, in a way 308 00:17:48,590 --> 00:17:53,430 Speaker 3: detached thing that has no sentience, no existence, has no 309 00:17:54,070 --> 00:17:54,409 Speaker 3: ounce of. 310 00:17:54,390 --> 00:17:57,379 Speaker 2: Relationship in and of itself. all the way to bride. 311 00:17:57,920 --> 00:18:00,609 Speaker 3: I just, I, that's what I loved most about your 312 00:18:00,650 --> 00:18:03,170 Speaker 3: book is just seeing the growth and development to getting 313 00:18:03,230 --> 00:18:05,850 Speaker 3: to that place of realizing this is what it means 314 00:18:05,930 --> 00:18:06,609 Speaker 3: to be the. 315 00:18:06,550 --> 00:18:09,210 Speaker 2: Bride of Christ. But I do want to back up 316 00:18:09,250 --> 00:18:09,970 Speaker 2: before we get to that. 317 00:18:10,030 --> 00:18:12,719 Speaker 3: I want to touch on that before we end, but 318 00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:15,740 Speaker 3: I do want to touch on the subject of being 319 00:18:15,780 --> 00:18:18,760 Speaker 3: a friend, being a friend to Christ, because I think 320 00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:22,340 Speaker 3: a lot of Christians are comfortable with calling Jesus Lord. 321 00:18:22,770 --> 00:18:24,410 Speaker 2: And Savior, which he is. 322 00:18:24,490 --> 00:18:26,090 Speaker 3: Like we need to have the awe of God, the 323 00:18:26,170 --> 00:18:30,320 Speaker 3: fear of God, and knowing who Christ is. But friend 324 00:18:30,390 --> 00:18:34,820 Speaker 3: can almost feel too casual at times, too intimate maybe. 325 00:18:35,220 --> 00:18:38,600 Speaker 3: But I want to know from maybe your own experience 326 00:18:38,740 --> 00:18:41,080 Speaker 3: or your own exposition of the text when it comes 327 00:18:41,119 --> 00:18:44,960 Speaker 3: to scripture, what that looks like of how we can 328 00:18:45,060 --> 00:18:49,139 Speaker 3: engage with Jesus, like God himself as a friend. 329 00:18:50,270 --> 00:18:52,450 Speaker 1: That is so good because he is holy and there 330 00:18:52,590 --> 00:18:55,649 Speaker 1: is awe. But too often we hold him at bay. 331 00:18:55,770 --> 00:18:58,649 Speaker 1: Is he Lord? Is he Savior? Is that it? Well, 332 00:18:58,670 --> 00:19:01,510 Speaker 1: then he's kind of up there. But we look at 333 00:19:01,590 --> 00:19:05,310 Speaker 1: where has Jesus taken up residence? It's in our hearts. 334 00:19:05,650 --> 00:19:09,149 Speaker 1: It's deep within. And so to encounter God and actually 335 00:19:09,190 --> 00:19:12,320 Speaker 1: experience him and know him, we need to sink in 336 00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:16,590 Speaker 1: to his presence to make the time. to be with 337 00:19:16,650 --> 00:19:19,110 Speaker 1: him and sit and still and ask him to reveal 338 00:19:19,150 --> 00:19:24,629 Speaker 1: himself to us. Now, a friend in a reciprocal relationship 339 00:19:25,210 --> 00:19:28,870 Speaker 1: shares the secrets of his heart. A father does not 340 00:19:28,910 --> 00:19:34,580 Speaker 1: confide in his four-year-old, but a friend confides in his friend. 341 00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:38,760 Speaker 1: And it says in the scriptures that God confides in 342 00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:42,040 Speaker 1: those who fear him. I love the example, and I 343 00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:46,139 Speaker 1: write about this, of John the Beloved. sitting at the 344 00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:51,790 Speaker 1: Last Supper, and he's leaning against Jesus. He's so close 345 00:19:51,830 --> 00:19:54,030 Speaker 1: to him that that's just so comfortable for both of 346 00:19:54,050 --> 00:19:57,020 Speaker 1: them that he's just right there. And then when Jesus says, 347 00:19:57,180 --> 00:19:59,260 Speaker 1: one of you is going to betray me, they all 348 00:19:59,300 --> 00:20:01,980 Speaker 1: want to know. Peter especially wants to know who it is. 349 00:20:02,700 --> 00:20:05,379 Speaker 1: But he also knows the one who can get the 350 00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:09,050 Speaker 1: information out of him is John. Because he is his 351 00:20:09,109 --> 00:20:13,440 Speaker 1: closest friend. So Peter asks John to ask Jesus who 352 00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:17,359 Speaker 1: it is. And he tells him. He tells him. And 353 00:20:17,380 --> 00:20:22,300 Speaker 1: then later, Jesus entrusts his mother to him. He entrusts 354 00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:25,980 Speaker 1: that which matters the most to him to his friend. 355 00:20:26,359 --> 00:20:27,639 Speaker 1: Because he's trustworthy. 356 00:20:27,700 --> 00:20:27,980 Speaker 3: How? 357 00:20:28,460 --> 00:20:34,050 Speaker 1: Because he loves Jesus. Jesus says, if you love me, 358 00:20:34,770 --> 00:20:38,619 Speaker 1: you'll obey me. And it isn't like we obey God 359 00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:42,720 Speaker 1: to prove our love. It's that we obey him out 360 00:20:42,780 --> 00:20:44,910 Speaker 1: of love. We love him. We don't want to do 361 00:20:45,210 --> 00:20:48,730 Speaker 1: anything else. That's it. So there's other ways to grow 362 00:20:48,869 --> 00:20:51,409 Speaker 1: in being his friend. Like he wants to tell us 363 00:20:51,430 --> 00:20:54,170 Speaker 1: the secrets of his heart. We can ask him, what 364 00:20:54,230 --> 00:20:58,300 Speaker 1: are you praying, Jesus? What's on your heart? How can 365 00:20:58,340 --> 00:21:00,780 Speaker 1: I be partnering with you in prayer? I want to 366 00:21:00,820 --> 00:21:04,040 Speaker 1: pray what you're praying. Where are you moving? I want 367 00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:08,940 Speaker 1: to move where you're moving. And then it's also fabulous 368 00:21:09,060 --> 00:21:13,890 Speaker 1: in your walk to develop conversational intimacy with Jesus. The 369 00:21:13,950 --> 00:21:17,409 Speaker 1: prayer isn't a one-way thing. He wants to speak to us. 370 00:21:18,330 --> 00:21:20,530 Speaker 1: The sheep hear my voice and they follow me. We 371 00:21:20,590 --> 00:21:22,889 Speaker 1: are his sheep. We are meant to hear his voice. 372 00:21:22,930 --> 00:21:26,119 Speaker 1: And that's something we can cultivate over our lifetimes. 373 00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:30,520 Speaker 3: And then just for the sake of time, touching on 374 00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:33,080 Speaker 3: the idea of the bride, I know that that can 375 00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:37,010 Speaker 3: be something that is so misunderstood, not just when it 376 00:21:37,030 --> 00:21:38,990 Speaker 3: comes to guys and girls, you know, it's like the 377 00:21:39,050 --> 00:21:40,670 Speaker 3: men have to learn how to be the bride of Christ. 378 00:21:40,710 --> 00:21:43,360 Speaker 3: Women have to learn how to be, you know, sons 379 00:21:43,390 --> 00:21:44,740 Speaker 3: of God, daughters of God, right? 380 00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:45,440 Speaker 1: Exactly. 381 00:21:46,020 --> 00:21:48,540 Speaker 3: But, but what does it mean for the church and 382 00:21:48,740 --> 00:21:52,300 Speaker 3: for the individual believer to understand their role as the 383 00:21:52,340 --> 00:21:53,260 Speaker 3: bride of Christ? 384 00:21:53,500 --> 00:21:58,120 Speaker 1: This is such a high place, high and holy calling. 385 00:21:58,859 --> 00:22:02,400 Speaker 1: So part of it is receiving the dignity that has 386 00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:06,750 Speaker 1: been bestowed upon you. Yes. We are not, lowly sinners 387 00:22:06,890 --> 00:22:11,030 Speaker 1: only saved by grace. We are saints who he has 388 00:22:11,109 --> 00:22:15,410 Speaker 1: exalted to his right hand. Now, what I'd like to 389 00:22:15,619 --> 00:22:19,100 Speaker 1: remind people about is the Shulamite in Song of Songs, 390 00:22:19,140 --> 00:22:22,400 Speaker 1: who's coming up out of the wilderness, leaning on her 391 00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:25,679 Speaker 1: beloved from the wilderness, which is often a place of 392 00:22:25,740 --> 00:22:32,580 Speaker 1: personal honing. She's come to know God profoundly and deeply. 393 00:22:33,050 --> 00:22:35,450 Speaker 1: And so her posture isn't one of running in front 394 00:22:35,490 --> 00:22:39,290 Speaker 1: of him, doing what she knows that is a great idea. 395 00:22:39,710 --> 00:22:42,350 Speaker 1: It's not one of dragging behind him, going, okay, fine, 396 00:22:42,369 --> 00:22:46,190 Speaker 1: I'll follow you. It's side by side, arm in arm, 397 00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:50,879 Speaker 1: and leaning on him, resting in his love. A bride 398 00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:56,740 Speaker 1: doesn't rest on her own capabilities. She's at rest in 399 00:22:56,780 --> 00:23:00,460 Speaker 1: the fact that she is the beloved of God. Again, 400 00:23:00,500 --> 00:23:05,570 Speaker 1: not earning something. but receiving it, relishing in it, swimming 401 00:23:05,630 --> 00:23:08,490 Speaker 1: in it, marinating in it, and then listening to his 402 00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:11,580 Speaker 1: voice and saying, where do you want to go, God? 403 00:23:11,900 --> 00:23:14,480 Speaker 1: What do you want to do together? I am your partner. 404 00:23:14,500 --> 00:23:17,520 Speaker 1: I am with you in whatever it is. You have 405 00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:20,990 Speaker 1: my yes. So let's, let's, I say, yes, let's, let's 406 00:23:21,090 --> 00:23:22,030 Speaker 1: go together. 407 00:23:22,050 --> 00:23:27,149 Speaker 3: I love that. As we come closer to the end 408 00:23:27,170 --> 00:23:30,030 Speaker 3: of the episode, You know, for the person who's listening 409 00:23:30,070 --> 00:23:33,910 Speaker 3: today who feels spiritually dry, maybe it's been a while 410 00:23:33,970 --> 00:23:35,949 Speaker 3: since they've opened up their Bible or they feel like 411 00:23:35,970 --> 00:23:37,990 Speaker 3: they don't have the words to pray in this season. 412 00:23:38,410 --> 00:23:41,020 Speaker 3: Maybe they don't have a church that they're really deeply 413 00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:44,199 Speaker 3: connected into or they just don't feel close to Jesus 414 00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:48,080 Speaker 3: for whatever reason. What would you encourage them to do 415 00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:51,900 Speaker 3: this week? Not just for the sake of trying harder, 416 00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:55,510 Speaker 3: but for the sake of knowing Christ, for the sake 417 00:23:55,550 --> 00:24:00,330 Speaker 3: of knowing Jesus. him as friend and father and bridegroom 418 00:24:00,390 --> 00:24:02,760 Speaker 3: and all of the things that you detail throughout your book? 419 00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:07,899 Speaker 1: Um, I would say your thirst is actually a great gift. 420 00:24:09,140 --> 00:24:11,020 Speaker 1: If you're not thirsty, you don't go to the living 421 00:24:11,060 --> 00:24:15,570 Speaker 1: water and whatever you're feeling, it's valid. And you have 422 00:24:15,590 --> 00:24:19,090 Speaker 1: a God who cares and ascending the ladder of love 423 00:24:19,190 --> 00:24:21,629 Speaker 1: is over a lifetime. There may be a rung that 424 00:24:21,650 --> 00:24:24,290 Speaker 1: you explore in the book that goes, Oh, that resonates 425 00:24:24,330 --> 00:24:28,929 Speaker 1: with me camp there. Discover him more there. Find out more. 426 00:24:29,270 --> 00:24:31,930 Speaker 1: But what I would encourage you to do, and just 427 00:24:31,950 --> 00:24:34,990 Speaker 1: to know first you're not alone, there are seasons in 428 00:24:35,070 --> 00:24:38,730 Speaker 1: our walks with God, is to invite him in and 429 00:24:38,990 --> 00:24:42,710 Speaker 1: ask him to meet with you where you are. And 430 00:24:42,750 --> 00:24:46,790 Speaker 1: then once again, ask for his rescue. Say, come for me. 431 00:24:47,350 --> 00:24:50,909 Speaker 1: My heart has turned cold. Blow on the embers of 432 00:24:51,060 --> 00:24:54,820 Speaker 1: my faith. Would you please ignite me? I want to 433 00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:59,179 Speaker 1: love you. I want to be zealous once again or 434 00:24:59,220 --> 00:25:01,480 Speaker 1: for the first time, but I can't drum that up. 435 00:25:02,220 --> 00:25:05,790 Speaker 1: But you can, God. So ask him. Take the time 436 00:25:05,990 --> 00:25:09,310 Speaker 1: to sit and ask him and ask him to come 437 00:25:09,390 --> 00:25:12,870 Speaker 1: to reveal his love for you personally because it takes revelation. 438 00:25:13,310 --> 00:25:15,850 Speaker 1: And yes, he does that through the word, but he 439 00:25:15,910 --> 00:25:18,820 Speaker 1: does it through friends. He does it through music. He 440 00:25:18,859 --> 00:25:21,140 Speaker 1: does it through creation. He does it through the things 441 00:25:21,260 --> 00:25:23,909 Speaker 1: that you love. And I would also say that you 442 00:25:23,930 --> 00:25:27,670 Speaker 1: could pray, open the eyes of my heart, God, that 443 00:25:27,710 --> 00:25:30,850 Speaker 1: I might see you. And then wait. Be in a 444 00:25:30,890 --> 00:25:32,550 Speaker 1: posture of expectancy. 445 00:25:34,350 --> 00:25:34,790 Speaker 2: I love that. 446 00:25:34,830 --> 00:25:37,859 Speaker 3: Something that I talk about on the podcast often is 447 00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:39,130 Speaker 3: that idea of expectancy. 448 00:25:39,859 --> 00:25:43,380 Speaker 2: I have this expectation that, yes, God, you see. 449 00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:45,379 Speaker 3: Me and you know me and you love me and 450 00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:48,580 Speaker 3: you want to pursue me and speak to me and 451 00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:51,300 Speaker 3: reveal to me. but I'm also going to release the 452 00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:53,399 Speaker 3: expectation of what that might look like. 453 00:25:53,420 --> 00:25:55,419 Speaker 1: Oh, that's so important. You have an idea of what 454 00:25:55,460 --> 00:25:57,060 Speaker 1: it's going to look like or what he's going to 455 00:25:57,119 --> 00:26:01,220 Speaker 1: sound like. And no, you have a personal relationship with God. 456 00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:02,380 Speaker 1: It's going to be unique to you. 457 00:26:03,300 --> 00:26:03,879 Speaker 2: Absolutely. 458 00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:07,220 Speaker 3: We need to have that open-handed expectation of, I know 459 00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:09,280 Speaker 3: you're going to move. I know who you are and 460 00:26:09,660 --> 00:26:12,899 Speaker 3: that you desire to know me, but however it is 461 00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:15,300 Speaker 3: that you want to speak to me and reveal yourself 462 00:26:15,340 --> 00:26:17,830 Speaker 3: to me and minister to me in this season or 463 00:26:17,900 --> 00:26:19,980 Speaker 3: lead me in this season, That's where I'm going to 464 00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:23,780 Speaker 3: release the expectation and embrace the wonder of this. 465 00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:27,760 Speaker 2: Intimate knowing of who he is and his leadership in 466 00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:28,359 Speaker 2: our life. 467 00:26:29,100 --> 00:26:32,060 Speaker 3: I know that your book details so much and it's 468 00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:34,950 Speaker 3: so good in each rung that you talk about, each 469 00:26:34,990 --> 00:26:37,929 Speaker 3: different level of intimacy that we gain with God. And 470 00:26:37,950 --> 00:26:40,169 Speaker 3: I'm excited for the people who are listening today to 471 00:26:40,230 --> 00:26:43,210 Speaker 3: grab your book. They can preorder it today. So where 472 00:26:43,510 --> 00:26:44,810 Speaker 3: can people preorder it? 473 00:26:46,250 --> 00:26:49,160 Speaker 1: Anywhere you buy a book. We have a website, wild 474 00:26:49,220 --> 00:26:52,340 Speaker 1: at heart.org backslash the ladder of love, but you can 475 00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:55,600 Speaker 1: go on Amazon and preorder it. Um, you can preorder 476 00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:58,330 Speaker 1: it with us really anywhere. And what's cool is right 477 00:26:58,350 --> 00:27:01,830 Speaker 1: now there's also like free gifts for people that preorder 478 00:27:01,850 --> 00:27:03,229 Speaker 1: it that are, that are awesome. 479 00:27:04,190 --> 00:27:07,449 Speaker 2: That's great. We love a freebie. We love a free gift. Uh, 480 00:27:07,930 --> 00:27:09,780 Speaker 2: I'll link all that down below just to make it 481 00:27:09,859 --> 00:27:10,720 Speaker 2: easy for you all. 482 00:27:10,740 --> 00:27:13,020 Speaker 3: But if you have a retailer that you like, or 483 00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:16,580 Speaker 3: if you are an audible person or a digital reader, whatever, uh, 484 00:27:16,940 --> 00:27:18,669 Speaker 3: You can preorder it and you can get it in 485 00:27:18,690 --> 00:27:21,350 Speaker 3: the format that you want it. But Stacey, thank you 486 00:27:21,369 --> 00:27:23,369 Speaker 3: so much for taking the time to be here on 487 00:27:23,390 --> 00:27:25,909 Speaker 3: the podcast today. I'm so excited for other people to 488 00:27:25,950 --> 00:27:29,050 Speaker 3: read your book. It certainly blessed me. And I can't 489 00:27:29,070 --> 00:27:31,150 Speaker 3: wait to see how it impacts so many other people, 490 00:27:31,170 --> 00:27:35,850 Speaker 3: specifically you all who are listening. But I love you guys. 491 00:27:35,890 --> 00:27:38,129 Speaker 3: Thank you for tuning into this week's episode. And I 492 00:27:38,170 --> 00:27:40,340 Speaker 3: will see you here next week for another episode on 493 00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:41,560 Speaker 3: the bottom beloved podcast. 494 00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:44,379 Speaker 2: But until then, love you guys. Prank for you. and 495 00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:48,600 Speaker 2: get to know God, not just intellectually, but also intimately. 496 00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:54,960 Speaker 3: Bye. For more life-giving, faith-based podcasts just like this one, 497 00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:55,370 Speaker 3: check 498 00:27:55,420 --> 00:27:59,590 Speaker 2: Out lifeaudio.com, a proud partner of the Botten Beloved Podcast.