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Speaker 1: Life Audio.

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Speaker 2: You are listening to The Becket Cook Show with your

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Speaker 2: host Beckett Cook. For more information about Beckett and his ministry,

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Speaker 2: visit his website at Beckettcook dot com. To help support

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Speaker 2: the podcast, visit Patreon dot com slash the Becket Cook Show.

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Speaker 2: Please consider subscribing to the podcast and leaving a five

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Speaker 2: star rating.

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Speaker 3: Hey, guys, welcome to the show today. I have a

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Speaker 3: special guest, Naomi van Wick. We actually met at the

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Speaker 3: live action conference I spoke at like a month ago

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Speaker 3: called the Young Leader Summit, and she and I were

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Speaker 3: chatting in the green room and she mentioned that she

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Speaker 3: was an ex lesbian and that God rescued her out

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Speaker 3: of that life and and I was like, you got

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Speaker 3: to come up my show. So she's on today and

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Speaker 3: I'm excited to hear the details of her story. They're fascinating.

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Speaker 3: But first award from our sponsor. Please welcome Naomi van Wike.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, Becket Cook. It's great to be here.

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Speaker 3: It's good to have you on. As I mentioned in

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Speaker 3: the intro, like you know, when we met at the

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Speaker 3: Young Leader's Summit, was that what is about? Yeah, Young

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Speaker 3: Leader Summit. Delila Rose Uh some live action, live action summit.

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Speaker 3: You know, we were talking in the green room and

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Speaker 3: I was like, you mentioned I was so surprised when

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Speaker 3: you mentioned, oh, yeah, I used to be a lesbian.

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Speaker 3: I'm like what wait what? And so I was like,

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Speaker 3: you got to come up my show.

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Speaker 1: Well I'm here, I don't you know, look like I

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Speaker 1: used to be a lesbian.

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Speaker 3: So right, I mean, that's kind of the thing that

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Speaker 3: kind of threw me a little bit. I got to say, So,

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Speaker 3: let's get into your story because it's fascinating and God

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Speaker 3: is amazing praise him.

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Speaker 1: Yes, but let's.

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Speaker 3: Start with I didn't know this. You're the oldest of

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Speaker 3: nine children.

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Speaker 1: Yes, can you believe it?

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Speaker 3: You know I'm the youngest of eight.

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Speaker 1: What, Oh my goodness. So I would have been like,

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Speaker 1: you know, your big sister.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so we have the same We have the same

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Speaker 3: PTSD from being from large families, I.

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Speaker 1: Think, although you're at the opposite end. So it was

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Speaker 1: quite different for you.

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Speaker 3: Let me tell you, mom, and where were you raised?

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Speaker 3: What state?

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Speaker 1: Well? Ye, I was born in Iowa, but we moved

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Speaker 1: like every couple of years. My dad started campus ministry churches,

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Speaker 1: so we would move. We moved all over the country.

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Speaker 1: I lived in probably twenty some different homes before I

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Speaker 1: was thirty, I mean or more. So we moved all

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Speaker 1: over and I was homeschooled, so that made it easy,

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Speaker 1: I guess, for moving because I wasn't pulled in and

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Speaker 1: out of schools. And with eight brothers and sisters, you know,

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Speaker 1: I had plenty of built in playmates.

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Speaker 3: So how many boys and girls?

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Speaker 1: Five girls? Four boys? Wow, so the girls won.

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Speaker 3: The girls one. And your dad you mentioned your dad

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Speaker 3: he was a pastor, right, He was.

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Speaker 1: Not, you know, he didn't go to seminary or whatever,

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Speaker 1: but he actually went to Vietnam, got out of Vietnam

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Speaker 1: and just had a you know, burning desire to share

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Speaker 1: the gospel. He was raised in a Christian home and

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Speaker 1: so he had just put together like a little group.

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Speaker 1: They called it the Blitz, and they drove around in

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Speaker 1: a Volkswagen van. This was back, you know Jesus movement,

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Speaker 1: you know, early seventies, and would just go to a

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Speaker 1: college campus and somebody played the guitar and they'd pass

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Speaker 1: out tracks and my dad would preach the gospel. And

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Speaker 1: my dad's very very persuasive. He's led literally thousands of

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Speaker 1: people to the Lord all over the country. And then

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Speaker 1: then in other parts of the world. So that's what

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Speaker 1: I that's what I grew up in. My parents then

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Speaker 1: got married and conceived me and I have a twin brother.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, they conceived us on their honeymoon and kept

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Speaker 1: having kids and kept traveling.

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Speaker 3: Wow, did your dad get saved in Vietnam or was

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Speaker 3: he already a Christian before that?

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Speaker 1: He was already a Christian. Yepka, his mom became a

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Speaker 1: Christian right around the time he was born, so he

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Speaker 1: was he was raised in a Christian home. And yeah,

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Speaker 1: he's the youngest of three. But I think, yeah, being

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Speaker 1: in Vietnam he got drafted. It wasn't his desire to go,

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Speaker 1: but I think, you know, that maybe gave him a

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Speaker 1: wake up call of like what am I doing with

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Speaker 1: my life? And so his best friend that he met

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Speaker 1: in Vietnam was played the guitar. So his name was

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Speaker 1: Dennis Clark. And so this group of like a dozen

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Speaker 1: young single guys and girls, they'd eat day old donuts

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Speaker 1: and you know, travel travel around the country. I mean

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Speaker 1: they had no money, they had no jobs, you know,

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Speaker 1: they were just literally going. And so the little church

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Speaker 1: would form and they would you know, get a church started,

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Speaker 1: and then they'd go to another college campus and preach

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Speaker 1: the gospel until you know, there was a little Bible

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Speaker 1: study community group going, and then they'd go to another campus.

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Speaker 1: And so I had great roots growing up. I mean

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Speaker 1: I always.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and did you enjoy did you enjoy your early

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Speaker 3: childhood with all the you know, all the kids in

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Speaker 3: the chaos, Like did you enjoy that or was it

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Speaker 3: in the moving or was it kind of hard on them?

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Speaker 3: You know?

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Speaker 1: I mean people always go, what was it like having

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Speaker 1: a twin or what was it like having you know,

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Speaker 1: eight siblings, And it's like, you know, I didn't know

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Speaker 1: any different, right, So I felt like I had a

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Speaker 1: great childhood. I mean we had a lot of fun.

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Speaker 1: We were like the Christian von Trapp family. If you

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Speaker 1: ever saw the Sound of Music.

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Speaker 3: I've never seen it, of course, yeah you're one.

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Speaker 1: Of eight you have to have watched it. But I

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Speaker 1: mean literally, my dad like he rewrote the song some

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Speaker 1: of the Sound of Music songs and put Christian lyrics

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Speaker 1: to it, and we'd like we'd stand on the staircase

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Speaker 1: in our house and we'd have to like sing the

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Speaker 1: Christian lyrics to Sound of Music and do the hand

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Speaker 1: motions whenever we had guest over, and so, I mean,

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Speaker 1: I loved it. My mom was my best friend, she

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Speaker 1: was my hero. I just always dreamed I wanted to

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Speaker 1: go up, grow up, be like my mom. I thought,

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Speaker 1: I just live on a farm and have ten kids

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Speaker 1: and homeschool and milk the cows and get the chicken

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Speaker 1: eggs and wow.

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Speaker 3: So so then how did things go sideways? Because when

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Speaker 3: we were eleven or twelve things something an event happened

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Speaker 3: when you were eleven or twelve that kind of shifted

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Speaker 3: your whole life.

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Speaker 1: Yep, yep for sure. So as you can gather, I

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Speaker 1: lived in a very sheltered environment. I had never been

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Speaker 1: to a church besides my dad's church. I was home

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Speaker 1: home schooled. My community and circle was just my family

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Speaker 1: or just people that went to my dad's church. But

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Speaker 1: a girl came to my dad's church and she and

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Speaker 1: I became friends. And she was sixteen at the time

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Speaker 1: when I was twelve, and I just thought we were friends.

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Speaker 1: But she had been a lesbian, she'd been in the

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Speaker 1: lifestyle before. Of course I had never heard there was

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Speaker 1: back then, no LGBTQ, and growing up, you know, in

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Speaker 1: this sheltered family, I'd never even heard about lesbian or

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Speaker 1: gay or homosexual. That was a word that I'd never

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Speaker 1: even heard of. I didn't even really know what it

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Speaker 1: was about how boys and girls, you know, how babies

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Speaker 1: were born. Yet I mean, we just you know, this little,

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Speaker 1: you know, little family. So anyway, this girl at my church,

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Speaker 1: she had a crush on me. She didn't tell me that.

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Speaker 1: We just hung out a lot, and she told one

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Speaker 1: of you know, somebody else in the church who called

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Speaker 1: my dad and said, this this girl, I'll leave r

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Speaker 1: un named. You know, she came out of the lifestyle,

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Speaker 1: and she has a crush on Naomi. So my member,

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Speaker 1: my dad called me into his room and starts questioning

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Speaker 1: me and just almost accusations that there was something going

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Speaker 1: on with me. And this is this girl who was

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Speaker 1: just my friend, and I was I was very confused

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Speaker 1: because I didn't even know about relations between same sex

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Speaker 1: and nothing had ever happened between us except we were friends.

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Speaker 1: But it was very it was just very awkward, and

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Speaker 1: you know, he then he asked me if I had

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Speaker 1: kissed her, and I was like blown away. And then

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Speaker 1: he said, go read Sodom and Gomorah in Genesis. And

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Speaker 1: I mean, we had grown up reading the Bible. We

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Speaker 1: memorized chapters of the Bible together, always saying worship songs.

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Speaker 1: So I'm sure I'd probably had read it, just because

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Speaker 1: we read through the Bible in a year every year,

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Speaker 1: but it didn't mean anything to me. I was too

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Speaker 1: young to understand it. So he said, go read about

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Speaker 1: Sodom and Gomora and Genesis and then come back and

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Speaker 1: talk to me. And I read it. I come back,

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Speaker 1: I'm like even more confused. And then he said, this

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Speaker 1: is what the enemy's going to use to try to

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Speaker 1: destroy your life, and that that stuck with me, and

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Speaker 1: years later I realized, you know, he was being prophetic,

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Speaker 1: but he was also speaking a word curse. I believe

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Speaker 1: over me because backett from then on throughout my crowing hop,

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Speaker 1: I had girls pursuing me, and it was it was

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Speaker 1: like some door to the enemy had been opened. And

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Speaker 1: so I really believed that without him meaning to, I

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Speaker 1: believe my dad had the best intentions. I think he

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Speaker 1: freaked out. I think he didn't know what to do.

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Speaker 1: Here is this, you know, his oldest daughter. He doesn't

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Speaker 1: want me to fall into this lifestyle, and he had

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Speaker 1: no history of how to deal with something like this.

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Speaker 1: So I don't necessarily accuse him or fault him or

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Speaker 1: blame him. I don't think the way he handled it

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Speaker 1: was right, but I do believe he actually spoke a

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Speaker 1: word curse over me because from then on, I had

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Speaker 1: girls pursuing me as I grew up. And when this

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Speaker 1: happened with this first girl, when I was just twelve

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Speaker 1: years old, my dad he kicked her out of the church.

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Speaker 1: She actually worked for his landscaping company, so he fired

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Speaker 1: her from her job, and he made me write her

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Speaker 1: a letter that said I will never see or speak

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Speaker 1: to you again.

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Speaker 3: We'll be right back after this shortbreak.

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Speaker 1: And I still didn't understand really what this sin was.

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Speaker 1: I just understood that, Okay, this is a terrible sin.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, whatever this is, like, this girl is very

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Speaker 1: guilty of something. And I remember saying to my dad

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Speaker 1: and my parents, like, you know, as Christians, I thought

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Speaker 1: were supposed to help somebody if they have a problem.

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Speaker 1: I don't understand why we're excommunicating her if she has

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Speaker 1: this struggle, Like, shouldn't we be like helping her get

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Speaker 1: out of whatever this sin is. But this is how

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Speaker 1: it was handled. Yeah, and so yeah, so as I.

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Speaker 3: That's kind of how it was handled back in the day,

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Speaker 3: like it was just like, you know, cut off the

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Speaker 3: person immediately, and like there's just like no conversation, there's

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Speaker 3: no coming alongside someone helping them, you know, go through this.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, sadly, that's the way so much of

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Speaker 1: the church. I don't think all churches are that way

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Speaker 1: any longer. I think churches are starting to wake up

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Speaker 1: and you would know better than I would, probably, but

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Speaker 1: there are some churches that still handle it that way.

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Speaker 1: But yes, this was back in the wow, mid mid eighties,

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Speaker 1: early eighties, so churches had no idea what to do,

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Speaker 1: so they just shut the door on them.

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Speaker 3: And what was her what was her response when she

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Speaker 3: received your letter.

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Speaker 1: I never heard from her again, you know, And I

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Speaker 1: know she tried. She tried to call our house. And

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Speaker 1: this of course before cell phones, so we had a landline.

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Speaker 1: So actually I also had to call her, That's right.

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Speaker 1: I had to call her and tell her as well

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Speaker 1: as send her a letter. And I mean, now it

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Speaker 1: breaks my heart that that's how we treated her. But

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Speaker 1: but back and I've I honestly have never seen or

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Speaker 1: heard from her since. I mean, that was that was

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Speaker 1: the end of it. She was literally off her property

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Speaker 1: and out of the church, and I never never saw

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Speaker 1: her from her again.

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Speaker 3: Wow.

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Speaker 1: So so yeah, that was that was pretty traumatic for me,

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Speaker 1: needless to say.

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Speaker 3: In general, and in general, I mean, did you have

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Speaker 3: a close, kind of emotionally close relationship with your father

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Speaker 3: or was it was it a difficult relationship.

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Speaker 1: That's a very good question. My dad was an authoritarian.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so when you have nine kids, you have to

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Speaker 3: kind of be.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, exactly. I mean any king he came out

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Speaker 1: of Vietnam, and I mean, yeah, you have to, you know,

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Speaker 1: keep all those kids in order. So I wouldn't say

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Speaker 1: I had a strained relationship with them at the time.

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Speaker 1: In fact, I had started working at my dad's office

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Speaker 1: when I was twelve. He said, if you can type,

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Speaker 1: you know, seventy words a minute, can come work for me.

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Speaker 1: And so I taught myself how to type really fast.

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Speaker 1: So I would go to work with him every day

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Speaker 1: and come home. And so I in many ways had

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Speaker 1: a closer relationship with my dad than most of my siblings.

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Speaker 1: Because I was the first born. My dad put a

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Speaker 1: lot of responsibility on me. I mean he would leave

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Speaker 1: the house and say, hey, if the kids get out

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Speaker 1: of line, you know, you spank them like I had

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Speaker 1: full authority over raising my siblings. So as I worked

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Speaker 1: with him, I mean I was with him more. So

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't say we had a strained relationship. But I

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Speaker 1: don't know that my dad really knows how to have

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Speaker 1: an emotional relationship, an intimate, close emotional relationship with anybody. Honestly,

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Speaker 1: I don't know that he's really ever had that, So

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Speaker 1: I think I don't know enough about his past and

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Speaker 1: upbringing if there was emotional strain there. But our relationship

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Speaker 1: definitely got more strained over the years.

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Speaker 3: So after that event with the sixteen year old girl,

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Speaker 3: did did you start to did you resent your father

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Speaker 3: for that?

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Speaker 1: I don't know that I resented him. I mean maybe

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Speaker 1: deep down I did. I don't consciously remember resenting him

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Speaker 1: for it. I just think I felt really confused and

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Speaker 1: hurt and didn't understand like why my I guess quote

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Speaker 1: unquote best friend essentially all of a sudden had to

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Speaker 1: be out of my life. So it was it was

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Speaker 1: definitely definitely put something there in my heart for sure.

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Speaker 3: And so when when you said you said that you

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Speaker 3: know women or girls are started to you know they

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Speaker 3: were they would kind of be attracted to you or

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Speaker 3: they would pursue you. What I mean, what was that like?

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Speaker 3: And did you were you did you feel any attraction

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Speaker 3: towards them or was it just kind of like I

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Speaker 3: you know, I'm getting this attention and I'm not sure

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Speaker 3: what to do with it? Like what was that like?

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Speaker 1: Well, I mean it didn't happen like immediately, but you know,

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Speaker 1: a couple of years later, I became friends with you know,

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Speaker 1: another girl. We all were homeschool, but then a couple

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Speaker 1: of my younger siblings started going to a Christian school.

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Speaker 1: Of course, it was that a Christian school. You know,

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Speaker 1: I tell people, the enemy he doesn't leave Christians alone.

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Speaker 1: He's not just after the kids out there that aren't

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Speaker 1: in a Christian home. The enemy wants to climb in

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Speaker 1: the windows of Christian homes and go after our children. So,

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Speaker 1: you know, the enemy was after me, and I believe

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Speaker 1: it's you know, God had a big plan for me.

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Speaker 1: So the enemy wanted to take me out before I

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Speaker 1: could fulfill God's purpose for my life. So my younger

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Speaker 1: sister was going to a Christian school and she played basketball,

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Speaker 1: so I was the older sister. I could drive, I

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Speaker 1: was sixteen. Now, I'd take her to all of her

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Speaker 1: games and all of her practices, and then the bleachers

300
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Speaker 1: sat this girl watching her girlfriend, who was the captain

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Speaker 1: of the basketball team. So I became friends with this

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Speaker 1: girl because we were at all the basketball teams a

303
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Speaker 1: basketball games together, and you know, I didn't know that

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Speaker 1: she was in the lifestyle. She just became my best

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Speaker 1: friend again. But I did have I was getting mature

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Speaker 1: enough to go like, oh, I wonder if this girl

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Speaker 1: is this terrible gay thing again. You know, I was older.

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Speaker 1: Now I'm sixteen, and I'm thinking, oh my goodness, like

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Speaker 1: this can't be happening, Like I can't be becoming friends

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Speaker 1: yet with another girl that is also gay. How in

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Speaker 1: the world could this be happening. But we became very

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Speaker 1: very close friends, and definitely an emotional relationship was there.

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Speaker 1: I don't know that I was physically attracted to me

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Speaker 1: once she had a girlfriend that she was actually engaged to,

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Speaker 1: So that actually became awkward and interesting because her girlfriend

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Speaker 1: then started to get jealous of our friendship and I

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Speaker 1: did end up asking her like, you know, are you gay.

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Speaker 1: I don't remember the whole conversation, but you know, she

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Speaker 1: denied it at first, and so then I kept being

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Speaker 1: her friend, and then finally she confided to me that

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Speaker 1: she was gay, and then I'm like, oh no, I

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Speaker 1: can't tell my parents because They're going to excommunicate her

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Speaker 1: from my life and I'm going to lose yet another

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Speaker 1: best friend. So that's became this pattern in my life

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Speaker 1: that when I would become friends with a girl and

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Speaker 1: then I would find out that she was gay or lesbian,

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Speaker 1: I would be like, oh no, I gotta I can't

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Speaker 1: tell my parents because I don't want to lose another friend.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so what about boys, Like when you were sixteen

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Speaker 3: and in that during that age, were you attracted to boys? Like,

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Speaker 3: were you interested in boys?

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Speaker 1: Yes? And no? I mean I my parents forbid dating,

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Speaker 1: so you know, I never I never went on dates.

334
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Speaker 1: I mean I did. I was allowed to go to

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Speaker 1: a friend's homecoming to end a prom for a special thing.

336
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Speaker 1: But but we were we were raised that we're under

337
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Speaker 1: your umbrella of your dad until you're under the umbrella

338
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Speaker 1: of your husband, and almost like it's going to be,

339
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Speaker 1: you know, a match made marriage. So my dad was,

340
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Speaker 1: you know, he was very controlling. He told people in

341
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Speaker 1: the church basically who they could marry and who they

342
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Speaker 1: couldn't marry, and so it was almost like I couldn't

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Speaker 1: be attracted to a boy because that was basically forbidden.

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Speaker 3: Forbidden if you know what I mean, it's forbidden fruit.

345
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Speaker 1: It was, it was forbidden fruit. So honestly, I don't

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Speaker 1: really know if I was attracted to boys or not,

347
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Speaker 1: because it was just like it wasn't there. And you know,

348
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Speaker 1: I actually was sexually molested as a child, so that

349
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Speaker 1: of course played into me having not feeling safe around men, honestly.

350
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Speaker 1: So it went on and off from quite a young

351
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Speaker 1: age until I was about sixteen.

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Speaker 3: Wow.

353
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Speaker 1: And it was not my dad, I like to clarify that,

354
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Speaker 1: but my dad when he found out, he didn't I

355
00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:49,719
Speaker 1: feel once again, handle it correctly. He basically just brushed

356
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Speaker 1: it under the rug and said we're never going to

357
00:19:52,280 --> 00:19:57,560
Speaker 1: talk about this. So again, the person who should have

358
00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:00,800
Speaker 1: protected me from it happening, and then when he did

359
00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:05,359
Speaker 1: find out about it, didn't deal with it appropriately, left

360
00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:07,879
Speaker 1: me that much more vulnerable, that much more lacking of

361
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Speaker 1: trusting a man. So I mean, deep down, like I said,

362
00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:13,960
Speaker 1: I just wanted to get married and have a bunch

363
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Speaker 1: of kids. I love kids. I love babies. So I

364
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Speaker 1: wouldn't say that I wasn't attracted to men, because I

365
00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:21,760
Speaker 1: always imagined that I was going to marry a man

366
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Speaker 1: and have kids. But at the same time, I, honestly,

367
00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:30,760
Speaker 1: Beckett really probably wasn't attracted to men. I was pretty asexual,

368
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Speaker 1: I think, like I think, I just all of that

369
00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:37,120
Speaker 1: was just shut down. I mean, it was just really

370
00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:42,000
Speaker 1: shut down in my in my mind and in my emotions.

371
00:20:42,040 --> 00:20:44,600
Speaker 1: And I've dealt with a lot of health struggles because

372
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Speaker 1: of all the trauma and so not to get into

373
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Speaker 1: all the whole scientific stuff of it, and you maybe

374
00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:52,320
Speaker 1: have done some research too, but I've tried to then

375
00:20:52,359 --> 00:20:55,480
Speaker 1: as I got set free, like understand, like, you know,

376
00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:59,199
Speaker 1: why was I vulnerable to this lifestyle? Besides you know

377
00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:01,800
Speaker 1: the issues that I've told you about, and I've even

378
00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:04,960
Speaker 1: read that, like you know, people that are in the

379
00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:08,760
Speaker 1: lifestyle that they have like their petuitary glan is smaller,

380
00:21:08,840 --> 00:21:12,000
Speaker 1: or the petuitary gland doesn't function quite correctly. And I

381
00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:14,440
Speaker 1: actually have a lot of issues with my peituitary gland,

382
00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:18,920
Speaker 1: And so I'm like, was the trauma from my childhood

383
00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:23,280
Speaker 1: did that affect my pituitary gland, which is the master hormone,

384
00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:25,680
Speaker 1: which tells all of your body what other hormones to produce.

385
00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:27,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, so not.

386
00:21:27,359 --> 00:21:30,560
Speaker 1: To get into a health science conversation here, Yeah, I think.

387
00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:32,800
Speaker 3: I think in the nineties it was was it Simon

388
00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:35,960
Speaker 3: Levy who came up with this peituitary gland theory? I

389
00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:38,120
Speaker 3: think it's him, remember, was it him?

390
00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:38,560
Speaker 1: Okay?

391
00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:44,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, but I'm not I can't remember for sure. But then,

392
00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:49,560
Speaker 3: so when you're in your twenties, you had a job

393
00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:55,600
Speaker 3: and your boss was a lesbian and then you guys

394
00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:58,720
Speaker 3: didn't talk about that and how you became best friends

395
00:21:58,760 --> 00:21:59,720
Speaker 3: and then ended up in a.

396
00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:04,679
Speaker 1: Relationship ship right, well, so you know, having different girls

397
00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:06,639
Speaker 1: pursuing me. I just look at it that it was.

398
00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:08,840
Speaker 1: It was like the enemy was just getting me more

399
00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:16,600
Speaker 1: and more comfortable with this lifestyle essentially. Yeah, so I am.

400
00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:20,520
Speaker 1: I'm back living with my family for now, living in

401
00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:24,080
Speaker 1: Colorado at the time, and I take a job with

402
00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:27,080
Speaker 1: a television and sports marketing company, this glamour job. We

403
00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:30,200
Speaker 1: flew all over the country putting on downhill skiing events

404
00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:33,400
Speaker 1: for national television, and so I was on the road

405
00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:37,280
Speaker 1: a lot, and so I wasn't at church, I wasn't

406
00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:39,360
Speaker 1: with my you know, I was part of the singles group.

407
00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:42,040
Speaker 1: I wasn't with the singles group that much any longer.

408
00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:45,359
Speaker 1: And you know, a little side story I should share

409
00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:50,040
Speaker 1: here is the worship leader. I thought I was going

410
00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:55,520
Speaker 1: to marry and you know, but but he he turned

411
00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:57,200
Speaker 1: out to decide that he had the gift of celibacy,

412
00:22:57,560 --> 00:23:00,000
Speaker 1: and so everybody thought that we were going to get married.

413
00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:04,960
Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, we canceled getting

414
00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:08,119
Speaker 1: dating because he decided that if he wasn't going to

415
00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:09,440
Speaker 1: marry me, he was never going to get married. And

416
00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:13,639
Speaker 1: true to his word, he's never gotten married. But I

417
00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:16,320
Speaker 1: think that was just one more little chisel in the

418
00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:21,160
Speaker 1: what's wrong with me? Like, how come this guy that everybody,

419
00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:23,000
Speaker 1: the pastor would even go, where's the ring? Where are

420
00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:26,440
Speaker 1: you getting married? So that relationship had just ended, and

421
00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:28,639
Speaker 1: I'm like, and by the way, I mean, we never

422
00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:30,320
Speaker 1: even hardly kissed, and I just thought he was just

423
00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:33,159
Speaker 1: being really respectful of my boundaries. But turns out he

424
00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:38,359
Speaker 1: just wasn't physically attracted to women. Oh okay, okay, So.

425
00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:41,240
Speaker 3: Did he end up coming out as a gay man.

426
00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:44,120
Speaker 1: No, No, he never came out as a gay man.

427
00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:49,040
Speaker 1: He just believed that he has the gift of celibacy. Wow,

428
00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:51,320
Speaker 1: And he never came out as a gay man. And

429
00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:54,320
Speaker 1: you know, I kind of could understand it because my

430
00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:56,760
Speaker 1: uncle has never been married and he's just felt like

431
00:23:56,760 --> 00:23:58,400
Speaker 1: he had the gift of celibacy and he could do

432
00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:01,919
Speaker 1: more for the ministry, and he's an elder, and so

433
00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:04,919
Speaker 1: I was like, well, Okay, this guy, I guess is

434
00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:07,560
Speaker 1: like my uncle. He has the gift of celibacy. But

435
00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:13,080
Speaker 1: I bring that up because that ended right before I

436
00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:16,640
Speaker 1: got into this relationship. So I think there was some

437
00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:21,200
Speaker 1: hurt still from this. And I remember thinking, man, if

438
00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:23,840
Speaker 1: this guy who seems so perfect for me, you know,

439
00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:26,679
Speaker 1: doesn't want to marry me, I just need to go

440
00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:32,080
Speaker 1: live my life. Like so anyway, I'm not home, I'm

441
00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:35,840
Speaker 1: not connected with the church and the singles group because

442
00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:39,479
Speaker 1: we traveled all over the country putting on you know stuff.

443
00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:44,560
Speaker 1: My boss was a woman. We again just you know,

444
00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:48,439
Speaker 1: for a woman, it's such an emotional relationship, and so

445
00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:54,199
Speaker 1: it became it began as an emotional friendship relationship. And

446
00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:56,400
Speaker 1: of course my radar is up and I'm thinking, oh

447
00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:58,240
Speaker 1: my goodness, like, oh my goodness, I think this. I

448
00:24:58,240 --> 00:24:59,960
Speaker 1: think she's gay? Am I goodness, like, do I want

449
00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:02,440
Speaker 1: to ask her, like, you know? And and so I did.

450
00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:04,840
Speaker 1: I mean, i'd actually asked her like, you know, are

451
00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:07,400
Speaker 1: you a lesbian? And she denied it. First off, she

452
00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:09,840
Speaker 1: she grew up Catholic, she was very in the closet.

453
00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:13,880
Speaker 1: She'd only been with one other woman before me, and

454
00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:19,320
Speaker 1: so she, uh, you know, we we just we just

455
00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:23,199
Speaker 1: began an emotional affair essentially. And then I remember I

456
00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:25,760
Speaker 1: was I was at her house for like a little

457
00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:28,320
Speaker 1: Christmas dinner, just the two of us, and all of

458
00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:30,159
Speaker 1: a sudden, you know, We're cuddling and she's kissing me,

459
00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:33,240
Speaker 1: and I'm like, what's happening here? I'm thinking, wait, I

460
00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:34,760
Speaker 1: thought I thought you I go wait, I thought you

461
00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:41,439
Speaker 1: weren't gay, and she's like, yeah, I lied, I'm okay, Okay,

462
00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:47,520
Speaker 1: I'm like okay, so yeah, I mean, then you know it,

463
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:50,679
Speaker 1: it went really really quick before I knew it. I

464
00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:54,360
Speaker 1: moved into her condo and then I was like, hey,

465
00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:56,399
Speaker 1: I want to buy a house, and so we went

466
00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:58,800
Speaker 1: house hunting together. And then we bought a house together

467
00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:02,520
Speaker 1: and stopped at a cat goted a dog, and.

468
00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:03,639
Speaker 3: You all lesbians, they all.

469
00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:08,080
Speaker 1: Very good guns. I got with her. I was like,

470
00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:12,200
Speaker 1: oh okay, so yeah, that's that's what happened. Nobody knew

471
00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:16,200
Speaker 1: though we were. I mean, she had a couple gay friends,

472
00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:19,679
Speaker 1: you know, but we didn't go to the gay bars.

473
00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:22,640
Speaker 1: We weren't in in the gay scene. You know, we didn't.

474
00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:27,240
Speaker 1: We didn't drink. You know, we worked a lot. We golfed, rollerbladed, hiked,

475
00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:32,320
Speaker 1: snowski very active. But she didn't tell her family. I

476
00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:35,760
Speaker 1: didn't tell my family, and everybody just thought we worked

477
00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:38,200
Speaker 1: together and we were best friends and we were roommates.

478
00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:42,520
Speaker 1: So you know, I say, sin is fun for a season,

479
00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:45,240
Speaker 1: and she's she's I say, it was a it was

480
00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:46,000
Speaker 1: a counterfeit love.

481
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:50,240
Speaker 3: Yes, she seemed too. That's so funny. I use the

482
00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:54,000
Speaker 3: same terminology. It's a counterfeit love. It's not because true love.

483
00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:57,360
Speaker 3: I mean, according to Paul and And on Pricidians thirteen,

484
00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:02,120
Speaker 3: love is patient, love is kind love da da. Love

485
00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:06,440
Speaker 3: does not rejoice and wrongdoing. So if you're that's not

486
00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:08,680
Speaker 3: true love. Like when I thought I was in love

487
00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:13,000
Speaker 3: the five times I had like serious, serious boyfriends, it

488
00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:16,719
Speaker 3: was it wasn't real love. It was it was a

489
00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:20,280
Speaker 3: first of all, it was a sinful thing, but it

490
00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:22,840
Speaker 3: was also it was a neurotic love. It was almost

491
00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:28,240
Speaker 3: like a I always say, like it are my relationships

492
00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:32,360
Speaker 3: with guys lived in this sort of like neurotic space,

493
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:37,320
Speaker 3: And there was never stability. It was always eggshells. It

494
00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:40,679
Speaker 3: was always like what especially for gay men, it's always like,

495
00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:43,680
Speaker 3: you know, you better be in shape, and you better

496
00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:46,360
Speaker 3: have good abs, and you better like you know, it's

497
00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:48,960
Speaker 3: like it's all like physical and or you better have

498
00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:51,159
Speaker 3: a great you know, career or da da da, or

499
00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:54,480
Speaker 3: else I'm out of here. So there was always that

500
00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:59,240
Speaker 3: kind of like anxiety under underlying anxiety in all of

501
00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:03,000
Speaker 3: my relationship. But so, how long were you in this

502
00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:05,600
Speaker 3: relationship with her and how did it end?

503
00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:10,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, we were We were together for a couple years,

504
00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:13,120
Speaker 1: but all in all it ended up being almost four

505
00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:17,639
Speaker 1: years because it was so hard to get out. I mean,

506
00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:19,800
Speaker 1: I just go. It's such as you know, it's such

507
00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:26,879
Speaker 1: a stronghold. So the Columbine shooting happened in Colorado if

508
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:29,000
Speaker 1: you remember that back in the yeah, yea, yeah, the

509
00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:32,080
Speaker 1: school shooting, and we were together, we were full on together,

510
00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:34,680
Speaker 1: and I remember that was one of the first things

511
00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:37,679
Speaker 1: that kind of pricked my heart because I just I

512
00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:41,520
Speaker 1: remember watching the TV with her and just going, Wow,

513
00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:43,920
Speaker 1: these high school kids are standing up for their faith,

514
00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:48,320
Speaker 1: and here I am, like living in this lifestyle and

515
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:53,080
Speaker 1: I am living in so much sin. Yet these kids

516
00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:55,680
Speaker 1: are willing to like die for Jesus and I can't

517
00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:58,880
Speaker 1: even live for him. So I remember there was something

518
00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:02,280
Speaker 1: kind of stirring in my heart at the time. I mean,

519
00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:03,920
Speaker 1: of course, you know, I grew up knowing that it

520
00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:06,440
Speaker 1: was wrong, but I just always buried those feelings. Like

521
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:09,120
Speaker 1: I just she was if she was feeling, fulfilling the

522
00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:14,040
Speaker 1: voids and the longings that I had had probably all

523
00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:17,640
Speaker 1: through childhood. But again, it was a counterfeit love. It

524
00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:20,880
Speaker 1: wasn't going to really fulfill but it seemed to fulfill them,

525
00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:27,320
Speaker 1: but it was it was temporary. So I I just

526
00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:31,200
Speaker 1: I honestly grew so sick of my sin, Beckett. And

527
00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:36,560
Speaker 1: it's truly just a miracle of God because when I speak,

528
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:38,640
Speaker 1: people go, but I like, how did you get out?

529
00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:41,480
Speaker 1: And I go, you know what, like hearing your story

530
00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:43,280
Speaker 1: a little bit about how you had your mom praying

531
00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:45,920
Speaker 1: for you, it just makes me cry because honestly, I've

532
00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:48,560
Speaker 1: actually never cried sharing my testimony except once before. But

533
00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:53,160
Speaker 1: I didn't I didn't have people praying for me because

534
00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:56,080
Speaker 1: nobody knew I was in the lifestyle, right, you know.

535
00:29:56,560 --> 00:30:00,200
Speaker 3: So, but did your parents Were they wondering why you

536
00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:03,440
Speaker 3: weren't married yet, or like, were they like asking you, like,

537
00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:05,600
Speaker 3: where's your new boyfriend?

538
00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:09,320
Speaker 1: They weren't, actually, you know, I mean part of it

539
00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:13,960
Speaker 1: was they you know, they have nine kids, and they

540
00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:17,120
Speaker 1: also had a lot going on in their life and

541
00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:20,960
Speaker 1: in their world, and I think they just were like, well,

542
00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:23,080
Speaker 1: NAMA's off living her life and this kid's doing this,

543
00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:24,520
Speaker 1: and you know, I had a sibling in Europe and

544
00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:27,200
Speaker 1: a sibling in Hawaii, and it was just like, you know,

545
00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:31,640
Speaker 1: and and there's a whole side of my family issues

546
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:34,800
Speaker 1: that I it's too much to get into on this show,

547
00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:36,959
Speaker 1: but I had ended up dealing with a lot of

548
00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:41,560
Speaker 1: struggle and separation, ended up being excommunicated from my family

549
00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:45,920
Speaker 1: prior to getting into this relationship, then was let back

550
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:48,400
Speaker 1: into my family. So there was there was already kind

551
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:50,640
Speaker 1: of a lot of strain between my dad and I.

552
00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:57,800
Speaker 1: So I think they, I mean, maybe they wondered if

553
00:30:57,800 --> 00:30:59,880
Speaker 1: I was in a relationship with her. They never asked,

554
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:03,280
Speaker 1: and I never told him. So, you know, the Lord

555
00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:05,440
Speaker 1: has showed me that my granny was always praying for me,

556
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:07,680
Speaker 1: and now she didn't know I was in the lifestyle,

557
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:10,640
Speaker 1: but I know she was praying for me, just as

558
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:14,000
Speaker 1: a grandma praise for a child to just Lord. But

559
00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:17,120
Speaker 1: I grew so sick on my sin. There was such

560
00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:22,760
Speaker 1: a battle in my soul that I could not keep

561
00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:25,840
Speaker 1: weight on. I wore size zero and my clothes just

562
00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:27,959
Speaker 1: hung on me. I looked I looked like I had

563
00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:31,200
Speaker 1: a serious eating disorder. Yet I would eat and eat

564
00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:33,800
Speaker 1: and eat, and my girlfriend was worried about me. I

565
00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:36,040
Speaker 1: would get on a scale and be like, oh my goodness,

566
00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:38,280
Speaker 1: like I had to gain weight, but I couldn't get

567
00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:40,360
Speaker 1: no matter how much how many calories I took in.

568
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:43,400
Speaker 1: And I never was blaming nothing, But people would ask me,

569
00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:45,920
Speaker 1: my coworkers, like, you have an eating disorder and take

570
00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:48,120
Speaker 1: care of you, and I'm like, I don't like I

571
00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:52,000
Speaker 1: just but what was happening is I was so stressed

572
00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:57,000
Speaker 1: that the turmoil from this sin was now I was

573
00:31:57,040 --> 00:31:59,000
Speaker 1: now wearing it on the outside. Essentially.

574
00:31:59,440 --> 00:31:59,680
Speaker 3: Yeah.

575
00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:03,640
Speaker 1: And I remember, you know, one time, getting out of

576
00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:05,960
Speaker 1: the shower and looking at myself, going, I am skin

577
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:10,080
Speaker 1: and bones, and the verse from David in Psalms where

578
00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:12,400
Speaker 1: he says, you know, because of my sin, my bones

579
00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:16,160
Speaker 1: are wasting away. And I remember thinking, oh my goodness,

580
00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:19,000
Speaker 1: that's that's what's happening to me. Like if I don't

581
00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:21,320
Speaker 1: do something, I'm gonna I'm gonna die, Like I'm gonna

582
00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:25,560
Speaker 1: I'm wasting away. And I didn't want to end the

583
00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:28,760
Speaker 1: relationship with her. I mean, it's I tell people, it's

584
00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:30,640
Speaker 1: not like we had this big argument or this big

585
00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:36,280
Speaker 1: fight or something. But because I say God's word does

586
00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:39,560
Speaker 1: not return void, I grew up with so much of

587
00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:43,440
Speaker 1: the Word in me. And I also like to quote

588
00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:46,120
Speaker 1: the verse the letter of the law, you know, kills,

589
00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:48,640
Speaker 1: but the spirit gives life. And so I knew I

590
00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:51,440
Speaker 1: knew the letter of the law, but I honestly don't know, Beckett,

591
00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:54,600
Speaker 1: if I actually knew the Lord, because I really say

592
00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:57,400
Speaker 1: I was a Saul that then turned to a Paul.

593
00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:01,200
Speaker 1: You know, I knew so much scripture, but I did

594
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:04,480
Speaker 1: not have an intimate personal relationship with the Lord until

595
00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:07,320
Speaker 1: the Lord set me free. But I knew enough. I

596
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:10,240
Speaker 1: knew that Jesus was going to be the only way

597
00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:15,560
Speaker 1: to help me, to rescue me, and so I always

598
00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:18,240
Speaker 1: share my girlfriend was upstairs in our bedroom. We had

599
00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:22,600
Speaker 1: a three story house in Colorado, and I was in

600
00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:24,200
Speaker 1: our kitchen. I was about ten o'clock at nine. I

601
00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:26,560
Speaker 1: just remember taking a kitchen towel and I just remember

602
00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:28,960
Speaker 1: just like just trying to rip it into and I

603
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:31,360
Speaker 1: just I just had tears streaming down my face, and

604
00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:34,240
Speaker 1: I just I just felt my heart was I just said, Lord,

605
00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:37,320
Speaker 1: this is my heart. It's being ripped in two. And

606
00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:39,880
Speaker 1: I just said, I love this woman, but I know

607
00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:43,720
Speaker 1: I can't stay with her. And that was like the

608
00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:47,400
Speaker 1: real turning point as far as like me, I guess

609
00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:51,719
Speaker 1: making the decision of I got to choose. I'm choosing

610
00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:56,240
Speaker 1: Jesus above my own heart, is what it was. And

611
00:33:56,920 --> 00:33:59,840
Speaker 1: I have I've had to tell myself, you know what,

612
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:02,480
Speaker 1: that's true for every one of us. Every day we're

613
00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:05,120
Speaker 1: faced with are we gonna follow the way of the world,

614
00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:08,440
Speaker 1: the wide path that leads to destruction, or are we

615
00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:10,880
Speaker 1: going to choose the narrow way that leads to life.

616
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:14,959
Speaker 1: And so I made the choice then that I needed

617
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:16,680
Speaker 1: to end it with her. And I wish I could

618
00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:18,600
Speaker 1: say like I just picked up the phone, but I

619
00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:21,520
Speaker 1: went back upstairs and got in bed with her. You know,

620
00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:24,680
Speaker 1: it wasn't like, okay, hey, by the way, it's over.

621
00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:27,919
Speaker 1: You know, we had exchanged rings, like here's your ring.

622
00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:33,040
Speaker 1: Like it wasn't. It wasn't that simple. So but that

623
00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:35,680
Speaker 1: was that was the beginning of my heart going Okay,

624
00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:38,360
Speaker 1: I'm gonna unpry one finger and Jesus right there, and

625
00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:40,760
Speaker 1: then I'm going to unpry another finger and he was there.

626
00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:43,520
Speaker 1: But it was a lot of like two steps forward,

627
00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:48,640
Speaker 1: three steps back, because I had to not only emotionally

628
00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:52,760
Speaker 1: untangle myself from this person that really was the first

629
00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:55,279
Speaker 1: person in my whole life that I felt like loved me.

630
00:34:56,080 --> 00:34:58,920
Speaker 1: Besides my mom, she was probably the first person that

631
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:02,319
Speaker 1: I felt love to me, understood me, that protected me,

632
00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:05,560
Speaker 1: that cared for me. That she was a nurture in nature,

633
00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:11,640
Speaker 1: you know, in her spirit. And you know, my parents

634
00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:13,560
Speaker 1: maybe had so many kids they couldn't give us all

635
00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:15,960
Speaker 1: the individual attention that maybe I wanted or needed. But

636
00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:20,600
Speaker 1: I so it was a long process to end it.

637
00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:24,600
Speaker 1: Because we owned a house together, we worked together, we

638
00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:27,600
Speaker 1: had animals together. So it and because I had been

639
00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:31,680
Speaker 1: in such darkness the you know, I wasn't I didn't

640
00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:34,120
Speaker 1: make wise decisions even in the steps to how to

641
00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:36,960
Speaker 1: get out because I had been living my mind was

642
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:40,040
Speaker 1: just so clouded with darkness. And so you know, the

643
00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:41,960
Speaker 1: Lord gives us light for the next step. If the

644
00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:43,440
Speaker 1: Lord had shown me everything that I was going to

645
00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:45,239
Speaker 1: have to do to be set free, I probably would

646
00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:47,520
Speaker 1: have been like, I can't do all that, Lord, But

647
00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:50,200
Speaker 1: he just would give me enough light and then I

648
00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:53,440
Speaker 1: could trust him for the next step, for the next step.

649
00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:56,160
Speaker 1: And so it it took. It took a couple of

650
00:35:56,239 --> 00:36:00,200
Speaker 1: years before I actually moved into my own place and

651
00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:02,439
Speaker 1: we put our house on the market and I quit

652
00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:09,640
Speaker 1: my job, and you know, really was fully face down, Lord,

653
00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:13,600
Speaker 1: this is your life. I am fully surrendered to you.

654
00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:17,200
Speaker 1: And I remember thinking, you know, I don't know, I

655
00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:18,520
Speaker 1: don't know if there's going to be ever a man

656
00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:21,480
Speaker 1: that would ever want this mess I've made. But Lord,

657
00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:24,960
Speaker 1: whatever you want to do, I am yours. I am

658
00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:32,160
Speaker 1: fully surrendered to you. And it wasn't easy, as you know,

659
00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:35,000
Speaker 1: getting out of the lifestyle. I mean, the enemy he

660
00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:39,200
Speaker 1: comes to Killsdale and destroy and you know, he tempted

661
00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:41,319
Speaker 1: me and he got me on a hook and he

662
00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:43,680
Speaker 1: you know, you give him an inch, and he had

663
00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:45,799
Speaker 1: taken he had taken over my heart. And so it

664
00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:49,800
Speaker 1: took it took a couple of years for my heart

665
00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:52,840
Speaker 1: to be able to be fully surrendered to the Lord,

666
00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:56,320
Speaker 1: and then took more years after that for just the

667
00:36:56,719 --> 00:37:01,800
Speaker 1: healing process to take place, to be just yeah, healed

668
00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:06,560
Speaker 1: and sanctified, and to just understand the Lord's forgiveness and

669
00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:11,000
Speaker 1: grace and then just ton't realize that not only did

670
00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:14,200
Speaker 1: he forgive my sin, but the next step for me

671
00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:17,120
Speaker 1: was realizing he forgave the guilt and the shame of

672
00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:22,759
Speaker 1: it because I dealt was so much. You know, I

673
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:25,239
Speaker 1: got dealt with so much guilt and shame. I was,

674
00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:28,239
Speaker 1: you know, a goodie two shoes. I was, you know,

675
00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:33,319
Speaker 1: always wanted to be this perfect child, and so you know,

676
00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:34,560
Speaker 1: I had to come to the end of myself.

677
00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:40,640
Speaker 3: So what so two things. What was the reaction of

678
00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:45,760
Speaker 3: your girlfriend when you broke up? And what was the reaction?

679
00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:48,759
Speaker 3: And did your parents ever find out about this relationship?

680
00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:55,399
Speaker 1: So I wrote my girlfriend a letter and I basically said,

681
00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:58,320
Speaker 1: you know, I put the Lord, I put my first

682
00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:00,160
Speaker 1: love on the back burner, and I said, I have

683
00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:04,400
Speaker 1: to return to my first love. And you know, she

684
00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:06,440
Speaker 1: she had said before when we were dating, she's like,

685
00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:08,680
Speaker 1: I don't think we'll always be together. I think your

686
00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:10,839
Speaker 1: faith is going to pull you away from me at

687
00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:17,160
Speaker 1: some point. And I remember going, I don't know how

688
00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:19,479
Speaker 1: to respond to that, you know, but like thinking, deep down,

689
00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:24,239
Speaker 1: she's probably right, but you know, I didn't want to

690
00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:29,719
Speaker 1: admit it, but I thought she's probably right. So so

691
00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:31,280
Speaker 1: it was I mean, it was it was very hard.

692
00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:33,799
Speaker 1: But like I said it, even though when I gave

693
00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:36,239
Speaker 1: her the letter, we were still living together, we were

694
00:38:36,239 --> 00:38:39,640
Speaker 1: still working together, we were still traveling together. So it

695
00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:43,760
Speaker 1: was it was a it was a weird, awkward season

696
00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:46,359
Speaker 1: because you know, then she'd be like, but I want

697
00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:48,400
Speaker 1: to marry you, Like like what if we just get married,

698
00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:50,120
Speaker 1: Like what if we you know, I'm like, but I

699
00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:51,879
Speaker 1: want to have kids and my kids need a dad,

700
00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:54,840
Speaker 1: and you know, so so it wasn't just this, and

701
00:38:54,880 --> 00:39:00,200
Speaker 1: I'm like, you know, it was hard, and it was

702
00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:03,000
Speaker 1: hard for me to see the pain I put her through,

703
00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:07,759
Speaker 1: you know, because I want the you know, I want

704
00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:10,880
Speaker 1: the best. I want the best for her. And then

705
00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:12,600
Speaker 1: when I moved into my own place, I didn't have

706
00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:15,600
Speaker 1: any furniture, so like she she helped me move. She

707
00:39:15,680 --> 00:39:18,800
Speaker 1: brought the furniture from the house. It was her furniture

708
00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:22,120
Speaker 1: from our place into my condo. Like so so, like

709
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:24,760
Speaker 1: I said, it was you know, it took a while

710
00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:26,160
Speaker 1: to like really.

711
00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:28,359
Speaker 3: To untangle that Yeah, yeah, to.

712
00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:33,560
Speaker 1: Untangle that mess. So you know, I guess I guess

713
00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:37,080
Speaker 1: she could say she went through her through her own heartbreak,

714
00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:40,920
Speaker 1: of course, and I went through my own heartbreak. But

715
00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:42,640
Speaker 1: I knew that it was the only way to true peace.

716
00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:45,719
Speaker 1: I knew, I knew that it was the only way

717
00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:50,800
Speaker 1: to true joy, and and I had to die to myself.

718
00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:54,399
Speaker 1: And then when I when I did, is when I

719
00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:56,440
Speaker 1: you know, the Lord started filling me with more and

720
00:39:56,480 --> 00:39:59,120
Speaker 1: more of his peace to then make the next best

721
00:39:59,160 --> 00:40:02,279
Speaker 1: decision to be free. And then I actually moved to

722
00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:04,880
Speaker 1: a different part of I. We were in northern California,

723
00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:07,040
Speaker 1: my girlfriend and I when we finally when I finally

724
00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:08,880
Speaker 1: moved out, and then I moved to southern California. I

725
00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:11,640
Speaker 1: just I knew that I needed to like really separate,

726
00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:14,800
Speaker 1: so I wouldn't, you know, pump into her or whatever.

727
00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:17,400
Speaker 1: But there is something where you you have to you

728
00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:20,319
Speaker 1: can't just decide to be broken up. You have to

729
00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:25,400
Speaker 1: actually really physically separate, Like you know, my mind was

730
00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:27,800
Speaker 1: so much of the well, we could just be roommates.

731
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:29,960
Speaker 1: I'll just move into this other room. Let's just be

732
00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:34,080
Speaker 1: you know, because my mind was it doesn't work.

733
00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:34,839
Speaker 3: It don't work.

734
00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:37,160
Speaker 1: I mean, I was wanting it to work, but at

735
00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:38,160
Speaker 1: the end of the day, it didn't work.

736
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:41,520
Speaker 3: So what about your parents? Did they ever find out?

737
00:40:41,719 --> 00:40:46,680
Speaker 1: Parents? Oh? Yeah, yeah, yep. I didn't tell them. I

738
00:40:46,680 --> 00:40:49,520
Speaker 1: didn't tell them right away. I ended up telling one

739
00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:53,279
Speaker 1: of my sisters after I quit my job and after

740
00:40:53,320 --> 00:40:56,879
Speaker 1: I'd moved into my own apartment, and my sister ended

741
00:40:56,960 --> 00:40:59,560
Speaker 1: up telling my family, which at that point I was

742
00:40:59,600 --> 00:41:03,480
Speaker 1: totally because I'm pretty much an open book, Like I

743
00:41:03,719 --> 00:41:06,080
Speaker 1: kind of wanted to like shout it from the rooftops, like, hey,

744
00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:08,560
Speaker 1: look at what Jesus has done, Like I can't believe,

745
00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:12,480
Speaker 1: like He's I was so torn up and then ensnared

746
00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:14,360
Speaker 1: and then trapped and my heart was such a mess.

747
00:41:14,719 --> 00:41:17,439
Speaker 1: But now look at I'm Like, I'm free. I'm so free.

748
00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:24,759
Speaker 1: I can't believe it. But there's so much family stuff.

749
00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:27,920
Speaker 1: It's kind it's kind of complicated. I shortly about a

750
00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:31,800
Speaker 1: month after I moved into my own place and quit

751
00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:34,560
Speaker 1: my job and was just living off my savings account,

752
00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:37,080
Speaker 1: I was sending out resumes. I was, you know, I

753
00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:39,040
Speaker 1: was starting my life over. I mean I literally was

754
00:41:39,080 --> 00:41:42,480
Speaker 1: starting my life over because my life was so entwined

755
00:41:42,520 --> 00:41:45,120
Speaker 1: with her. And now I'm now our house is on

756
00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:48,080
Speaker 1: the market, so we have no rental income because we're

757
00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:50,719
Speaker 1: renting the house out to some people, so paying a

758
00:41:50,719 --> 00:41:53,000
Speaker 1: mortgage while the house is on the market, living in

759
00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:56,399
Speaker 1: my own apartment paying that rent, and I've quit my job.

760
00:41:57,040 --> 00:42:01,239
Speaker 1: But I'm like, Lord, I mean, this is this is

761
00:42:01,280 --> 00:42:04,080
Speaker 1: your life. Whatever you want to do. I know that

762
00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:05,759
Speaker 1: if you could get me out of this mess I

763
00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:08,239
Speaker 1: just was in, then you can take care of me

764
00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:12,920
Speaker 1: like you are my God. I was about a month

765
00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:18,520
Speaker 1: into this, like healing place and just hiking and just like, Lord,

766
00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:21,480
Speaker 1: wherever you send me, I'll go. And I got a

767
00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:25,759
Speaker 1: FedEx ding dong at my door and I open it

768
00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:27,239
Speaker 1: up and I'm thinking, who even knows I live here?

769
00:42:27,239 --> 00:42:29,440
Speaker 1: I've been here like a month, Like whupan has this address?

770
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:33,000
Speaker 1: And it was a letter from my mom and dad

771
00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:36,560
Speaker 1: and my eight siblings all signed. And I'm like, and

772
00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:38,840
Speaker 1: my siblings lived, some lived in other parts of the world.

773
00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:42,160
Speaker 1: I'm thinking, how this letter did they fly this letter

774
00:42:42,239 --> 00:42:45,359
Speaker 1: across the country. I'm thinking, I'm like, Steve me these

775
00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:50,480
Speaker 1: signatures Beckett, and I'm thinking, like, these are their real signature.

776
00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:55,000
Speaker 1: But the letter was excommunicating me from my family.

777
00:42:56,200 --> 00:42:59,400
Speaker 3: Because of the relationship with no And.

778
00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:03,399
Speaker 1: That's what soking is. People always think that me being

779
00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:07,400
Speaker 1: excommunicated was because I had been in this lifestyle, but

780
00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:11,720
Speaker 1: it wasn't. And it's it's a lot to go into.

781
00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:14,080
Speaker 1: On the show, they did put a PS at the

782
00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:18,320
Speaker 1: letter that said, ps and we know about your lifestyle

783
00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:20,680
Speaker 1: that you were in, kind of like, we know about it,

784
00:43:21,320 --> 00:43:25,279
Speaker 1: but that's not the that's not why they excommunicated me.

785
00:43:25,400 --> 00:43:27,080
Speaker 3: Well, we have to do now. We have to know

786
00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:29,560
Speaker 3: why you are. You can't just bring this up and

787
00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:33,720
Speaker 3: then say, oh, well, I can't talk about it just briefly.

788
00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:36,799
Speaker 3: I mean, if you could briefly tell us what briefly.

789
00:43:36,520 --> 00:43:41,160
Speaker 1: I'll briefly tell you my dad. And I try to

790
00:43:41,160 --> 00:43:44,720
Speaker 1: say this very respectfully because I do want to honor

791
00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:46,920
Speaker 1: my parents. I believe there is a blessing and honoring

792
00:43:46,960 --> 00:43:49,600
Speaker 1: our parents, and and I write in my book you

793
00:43:49,640 --> 00:43:52,799
Speaker 1: know that I am trying to share my story as truthfully,

794
00:43:53,520 --> 00:44:00,080
Speaker 1: but as honestly as in honor as much as possible. So,

795
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:02,400
Speaker 1: so I was raised in a very godly home, and

796
00:44:02,440 --> 00:44:06,240
Speaker 1: I'm so grateful for the upbringing. But my dad cares

797
00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:09,279
Speaker 1: so much about his reputation and what people think of him.

798
00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:12,680
Speaker 1: And when I was about eighteen, I quit working for

799
00:44:12,719 --> 00:44:15,279
Speaker 1: his company, and he took it as betrayal. He took

800
00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:16,839
Speaker 1: it as a slap in the face, and so that

801
00:44:16,920 --> 00:44:21,799
Speaker 1: began a lot of separation and trauma. And so when

802
00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:25,120
Speaker 1: I had just moved out, one of my sisters she

803
00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:27,120
Speaker 1: had started asking me, like, what happened when you were

804
00:44:27,120 --> 00:44:30,440
Speaker 1: eighteen between you and dad? And like why what? Basically

805
00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:33,160
Speaker 1: asking me. She was starting to wake up to some

806
00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:36,120
Speaker 1: of the struggles and weaknesses going on in my family,

807
00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:39,560
Speaker 1: and so I started sharing with her some of the

808
00:44:39,600 --> 00:44:43,239
Speaker 1: issues with my dad that I had seen, and so

809
00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:45,719
Speaker 1: she told a brother, and a brother told my dad,

810
00:44:45,760 --> 00:44:47,680
Speaker 1: and so my dad freaked out and thought, oh, my goodness,

811
00:44:47,719 --> 00:44:50,120
Speaker 1: Nami's going to destroy my whole family. I need to

812
00:44:50,120 --> 00:44:52,759
Speaker 1: get her out of the family before she destroys my

813
00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:56,279
Speaker 1: whole family. Essentially, So it really had to do with

814
00:44:56,760 --> 00:45:00,359
Speaker 1: his reputation. And I had not at the time gone

815
00:45:00,400 --> 00:45:04,120
Speaker 1: around and said anything to anybody about the struggles between

816
00:45:04,120 --> 00:45:07,000
Speaker 1: my dad and I, but he was he has very

817
00:45:07,560 --> 00:45:12,040
Speaker 1: insecure and very paranoid that and his reputation is what

818
00:45:12,160 --> 00:45:14,640
Speaker 1: he cares so much about, and so he was very

819
00:45:14,719 --> 00:45:18,319
Speaker 1: concerned that I was going to ruin his reputation, and

820
00:45:18,360 --> 00:45:22,720
Speaker 1: so he he essentially, I say, almost blackmailed my siblings.

821
00:45:22,719 --> 00:45:24,600
Speaker 1: He flew them from all over the country and won

822
00:45:24,640 --> 00:45:27,719
Speaker 1: in Europe to their house in Colorado and said, if

823
00:45:27,719 --> 00:45:29,799
Speaker 1: you don't sign this letter, then don't ever come back.

824
00:45:30,719 --> 00:45:33,480
Speaker 1: And so they met for a weekend and I was

825
00:45:33,520 --> 00:45:35,960
Speaker 1: told they were crying. They were asking him not to

826
00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:38,480
Speaker 1: do it. They didn't want to sign the letter, but

827
00:45:39,280 --> 00:45:43,560
Speaker 1: they felt that if they didn't sign it, that'd be

828
00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:45,520
Speaker 1: the end of them being part of the family as well.

829
00:45:45,719 --> 00:45:49,279
Speaker 1: So wow, it's it's a very complicated.

830
00:45:49,719 --> 00:45:52,319
Speaker 3: And have you have you since then? Have you reconciled

831
00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:52,879
Speaker 3: with your father?

832
00:45:54,239 --> 00:45:59,520
Speaker 1: No? Wow, Yeah, but we've had cried. Oh yes. And

833
00:45:59,520 --> 00:46:03,120
Speaker 1: that's a whole a whole part of my story is

834
00:46:03,239 --> 00:46:13,719
Speaker 1: about the forgiveness. So you know, I I know that

835
00:46:14,760 --> 00:46:17,640
Speaker 1: in me realizing how much I needed to be forgiven

836
00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:21,600
Speaker 1: for my lifestyle, that the Lord use that for me

837
00:46:21,640 --> 00:46:26,360
Speaker 1: to be able to forgive my dad. And I remember

838
00:46:26,440 --> 00:46:28,920
Speaker 1: just I would wrestle with the Lord, like I realized

839
00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:31,840
Speaker 1: it was, you know, just the grace of God that

840
00:46:31,960 --> 00:46:35,160
Speaker 1: I was forgiven. And I remember just going over you

841
00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:36,759
Speaker 1: know in Matthew where it says, you know, to the

842
00:46:36,800 --> 00:46:40,600
Speaker 1: extent that you forgive, you shall be forgiven. And so

843
00:46:40,800 --> 00:46:43,200
Speaker 1: I would just have like this argument with Jesus, like,

844
00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:45,839
Speaker 1: but I don't want to forgive my dad, like, I mean,

845
00:46:45,880 --> 00:46:48,280
Speaker 1: after everything he did to me, Like I mean this,

846
00:46:48,280 --> 00:46:51,439
Speaker 1: this just isn't fair. I mean. But then it'd be like, oh,

847
00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:53,759
Speaker 1: but this is the truth. I mean, this is what

848
00:46:53,840 --> 00:46:56,080
Speaker 1: it says here in Red and White. As much as

849
00:46:56,120 --> 00:46:58,200
Speaker 1: you forgive, you will be forgiven. And I'd be like,

850
00:46:59,160 --> 00:47:02,120
Speaker 1: I need so much forgiveness. I don't want the Lord

851
00:47:02,160 --> 00:47:05,600
Speaker 1: to withhold any forgiveness for me. I have so wronged him,

852
00:47:05,760 --> 00:47:09,480
Speaker 1: And so I just would have this, you know. And

853
00:47:09,520 --> 00:47:12,880
Speaker 1: this was within the first year of really separating from

854
00:47:12,920 --> 00:47:16,440
Speaker 1: my girlfriend and me just really understanding the depth of

855
00:47:16,520 --> 00:47:20,319
Speaker 1: the blood of the grace that I had received from

856
00:47:20,320 --> 00:47:24,080
Speaker 1: the Lord. And so it was during this season that

857
00:47:24,640 --> 00:47:27,880
Speaker 1: I was understanding how much Lord had forgiven me that

858
00:47:28,040 --> 00:47:31,040
Speaker 1: I knew, I knew I didn't want to be grow

859
00:47:31,080 --> 00:47:35,840
Speaker 1: bitter at my dad. I knew that that bitterness would

860
00:47:35,840 --> 00:47:39,239
Speaker 1: destroy me, but it would do nothing to him. I'd

861
00:47:39,280 --> 00:47:41,279
Speaker 1: be like, he lives in a different state. I mean,

862
00:47:41,320 --> 00:47:44,120
Speaker 1: he he won't know if I'm bitter with him or not.

863
00:47:44,239 --> 00:47:46,400
Speaker 1: He's not talking to me. He has no relationship with me,

864
00:47:46,520 --> 00:47:50,640
Speaker 1: so he won't know if I'm bitter. But that bitterness,

865
00:47:50,680 --> 00:47:53,480
Speaker 1: I knew, is a spiritual cancer, and I knew it

866
00:47:53,520 --> 00:47:55,000
Speaker 1: would destroy me and eat me up. And so I

867
00:47:55,000 --> 00:47:56,520
Speaker 1: would every day I get up at four in the

868
00:47:56,560 --> 00:47:58,560
Speaker 1: morning and it'd be like, Lord, I don't want to

869
00:47:58,600 --> 00:48:00,320
Speaker 1: be bitter. I don't want to I I want to

870
00:48:00,320 --> 00:48:03,239
Speaker 1: be bitter towards my dad. I want to hate him,

871
00:48:03,280 --> 00:48:05,200
Speaker 1: but I know I can't hate him, and so I

872
00:48:05,280 --> 00:48:07,120
Speaker 1: need to forgive him. But I don't want to forgive him.

873
00:48:07,120 --> 00:48:09,840
Speaker 1: And just this this battle of like how do I

874
00:48:09,880 --> 00:48:12,239
Speaker 1: forgive him? And help me forgive him? And it was

875
00:48:12,280 --> 00:48:15,800
Speaker 1: just this this ongoing wrestling match almost with the Lord.

876
00:48:15,880 --> 00:48:18,200
Speaker 1: And at the end of the day, I knew that

877
00:48:19,000 --> 00:48:21,040
Speaker 1: with that verse kept coming back to me to the

878
00:48:21,080 --> 00:48:23,960
Speaker 1: extent that you forgive, you will be forgiven. And so

879
00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:27,080
Speaker 1: I would just pray, Lord, help me forgive my dad,

880
00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:29,200
Speaker 1: Help me forgive my dad. So it was this ongoing

881
00:48:29,880 --> 00:48:31,600
Speaker 1: prayer because I knew if I forgave him then I

882
00:48:31,600 --> 00:48:35,480
Speaker 1: wouldn't be better. And so I remember one morning, you know,

883
00:48:35,560 --> 00:48:37,560
Speaker 1: getting up at four am to you know, have my

884
00:48:37,760 --> 00:48:39,319
Speaker 1: I would have two hours with the Lord before I

885
00:48:39,320 --> 00:48:43,120
Speaker 1: went to work, and I just I just had this

886
00:48:43,239 --> 00:48:46,320
Speaker 1: vision of the Lord and he was just he was

887
00:48:46,360 --> 00:48:48,480
Speaker 1: on the cross, and it's like, okay, I I was

888
00:48:48,520 --> 00:48:50,279
Speaker 1: just learning I have to come under the cross. I

889
00:48:50,320 --> 00:48:54,759
Speaker 1: have to let his blood cleanse me and and forgive me.

890
00:48:55,480 --> 00:48:59,080
Speaker 1: And I just I come there and I am not

891
00:48:59,160 --> 00:49:01,479
Speaker 1: responsible for my dad. I'm not responsible for anybody else.

892
00:49:01,640 --> 00:49:03,920
Speaker 1: It's just it's just me and him. And so when

893
00:49:03,920 --> 00:49:08,680
Speaker 1: I was there, I then saw our heavenly Father, and

894
00:49:08,719 --> 00:49:13,280
Speaker 1: I just I saw him weeping for my dad's soul,

895
00:49:15,880 --> 00:49:20,359
Speaker 1: and Beckett, I mean, it was just supernatural. I just

896
00:49:20,440 --> 00:49:23,640
Speaker 1: started to weep. I just couldn't believe it. It was

897
00:49:23,680 --> 00:49:26,160
Speaker 1: just like I just saw this picture of my heavenly

898
00:49:26,200 --> 00:49:29,840
Speaker 1: Father weeping over my dad, and I just started to

899
00:49:29,920 --> 00:49:35,560
Speaker 1: weep for my dad. And I just was like, oh

900
00:49:35,600 --> 00:49:41,560
Speaker 1: my goodness, like I forgive my dad. My heart breaks

901
00:49:41,560 --> 00:49:44,920
Speaker 1: for my dad, and I just, I honestly say, it

902
00:49:45,000 --> 00:49:46,919
Speaker 1: wasn't It's not in my own flesh to be able

903
00:49:46,960 --> 00:49:50,440
Speaker 1: to forgive my dad. But I felt like the Lord

904
00:49:50,560 --> 00:49:54,040
Speaker 1: just like put his his heart on top of my

905
00:49:54,200 --> 00:49:59,480
Speaker 1: heart so I could forgive my dad through the father's heart.

906
00:50:00,520 --> 00:50:05,480
Speaker 1: And so I'm just I'm so grateful because I could

907
00:50:05,520 --> 00:50:08,239
Speaker 1: be an absolute mess and train wreck if I had

908
00:50:08,520 --> 00:50:12,040
Speaker 1: lived twenty plus years now with no relationship with my

909
00:50:12,160 --> 00:50:15,600
Speaker 1: dad or my mom. And I went actually a few

910
00:50:15,680 --> 00:50:18,320
Speaker 1: years with no relationship with any of my siblings because

911
00:50:18,680 --> 00:50:20,440
Speaker 1: of all of this, and one by one many of

912
00:50:20,480 --> 00:50:24,000
Speaker 1: them have now restored a relationship with me. But my

913
00:50:24,120 --> 00:50:26,759
Speaker 1: dad did everything he could to keep my siblings from

914
00:50:26,800 --> 00:50:30,359
Speaker 1: having a relationship with me. And I mean he even

915
00:50:30,400 --> 00:50:32,520
Speaker 1: went to every church that I would attend, you know,

916
00:50:32,560 --> 00:50:35,040
Speaker 1: when I would move and try to contact the pastor

917
00:50:35,080 --> 00:50:36,680
Speaker 1: to tell the pastor, you know, kick her out of

918
00:50:36,680 --> 00:50:39,839
Speaker 1: your church. She shouldn't be in your church. And so

919
00:50:40,440 --> 00:50:42,480
Speaker 1: there would be lots of things that will come back

920
00:50:42,520 --> 00:50:44,920
Speaker 1: to me that my dad was doing to try to

921
00:50:45,760 --> 00:50:48,839
Speaker 1: hurt me and his own mother. And I'm getting more

922
00:50:48,880 --> 00:50:51,480
Speaker 1: real on your show than I have anywhere because I

923
00:50:51,600 --> 00:50:54,759
Speaker 1: just haven't been quite ready to release all of this yet,

924
00:50:54,760 --> 00:50:56,960
Speaker 1: because I've really been waiting on the Lord for the timing,

925
00:50:57,040 --> 00:51:00,399
Speaker 1: because I don't want to do anything to do honor

926
00:51:00,440 --> 00:51:02,600
Speaker 1: my dad. At the same time, I want people to

927
00:51:03,280 --> 00:51:06,000
Speaker 1: understand how much the Lord can forgive, and I want

928
00:51:06,160 --> 00:51:08,000
Speaker 1: I want my dad to understand how much I love

929
00:51:08,080 --> 00:51:12,400
Speaker 1: him and forgive him. And you know, he he's just

930
00:51:13,040 --> 00:51:15,800
Speaker 1: he's he's upon in the enemy's hand, honestly, and I

931
00:51:15,840 --> 00:51:18,919
Speaker 1: don't think he understands or realizes what the enemy has

932
00:51:19,000 --> 00:51:24,200
Speaker 1: done and has been doing through his life. But and

933
00:51:24,239 --> 00:51:25,839
Speaker 1: I kind of lost track of where I was there,

934
00:51:25,880 --> 00:51:34,160
Speaker 1: but I I just I just am. So I'm just

935
00:51:34,200 --> 00:51:37,080
Speaker 1: so grateful that the Lord just gave me his heart

936
00:51:37,200 --> 00:51:42,040
Speaker 1: to love my dad and to forgive my dad, because

937
00:51:42,040 --> 00:51:44,000
Speaker 1: it has been an ongoing thing over the years where

938
00:51:44,000 --> 00:51:46,279
Speaker 1: he has tried to Oh, this is what I was saying,

939
00:51:46,400 --> 00:51:48,520
Speaker 1: is his own mother, my granny, which is now she's

940
00:51:48,560 --> 00:51:52,480
Speaker 1: now passed away. But shortly after I got this letter,

941
00:51:53,680 --> 00:51:57,160
Speaker 1: my granny called me and said, don't let your dad

942
00:51:57,280 --> 00:52:00,279
Speaker 1: know anything about your life. He's out to destroy it.

943
00:52:02,239 --> 00:52:05,000
Speaker 1: And so for that to come and it broke her heart,

944
00:52:05,000 --> 00:52:08,160
Speaker 1: and it broke my heart to know that my granny

945
00:52:08,440 --> 00:52:12,480
Speaker 1: is like it's her son, it's her baby's son, and

946
00:52:12,560 --> 00:52:15,759
Speaker 1: she's breaking over him, and she's breaking over what he's

947
00:52:15,800 --> 00:52:21,239
Speaker 1: doing to me, her granddaughter. So I just share all

948
00:52:21,280 --> 00:52:25,799
Speaker 1: that to say, yeah, there's there's so much power in forgiveness.

949
00:52:26,320 --> 00:52:31,480
Speaker 1: There's is so much power in forgiveness. And the quote

950
00:52:31,520 --> 00:52:37,680
Speaker 1: that says, you know, unforgiveness is like you know, drinking

951
00:52:37,680 --> 00:52:42,200
Speaker 1: poison expecting the other person to die, right, It's like,

952
00:52:42,800 --> 00:52:45,719
Speaker 1: you know, I'm the one to kill myself if I

953
00:52:45,960 --> 00:52:50,399
Speaker 1: don't if I don't forgive so but but you know what,

954
00:52:50,520 --> 00:52:53,919
Speaker 1: it's because it's because I needed to be forgiven so much.

955
00:52:54,000 --> 00:52:56,560
Speaker 1: So it's just a beautiful picture of how the Lord

956
00:52:57,160 --> 00:53:01,919
Speaker 1: works and redeems. Because if I had never gotten into

957
00:53:01,920 --> 00:53:06,720
Speaker 1: that lifestyle, you know, I don't know, I would maybe

958
00:53:06,960 --> 00:53:09,240
Speaker 1: not have felt like I had so much that needed

959
00:53:09,360 --> 00:53:12,480
Speaker 1: to be forgiven, right, and so then I would not

960
00:53:12,560 --> 00:53:15,799
Speaker 1: have understood the Lord's forgiveness like I do.

961
00:53:16,440 --> 00:53:19,920
Speaker 3: Because grace, Like that's exactly right. I mean, it's like

962
00:53:19,960 --> 00:53:23,480
Speaker 3: when you it's like my life. I when I got saved,

963
00:53:24,760 --> 00:53:31,000
Speaker 3: it was so dramatic and it was such a completely

964
00:53:31,120 --> 00:53:34,839
Speaker 3: like a one to eighty degree thing that I just

965
00:53:35,120 --> 00:53:40,160
Speaker 3: God's grace was so magnified because of that. Rather than

966
00:53:40,200 --> 00:53:42,160
Speaker 3: like if I just you know, growing up in a

967
00:53:42,239 --> 00:53:43,960
Speaker 3: Christian home and been a Christian all my life kind

968
00:53:44,000 --> 00:53:45,960
Speaker 3: of thing, and been like the older brother and the

969
00:53:45,960 --> 00:53:48,239
Speaker 3: prodigal son. It would have been a different thing. But

970
00:53:48,320 --> 00:53:52,840
Speaker 3: because I was such a deep, strong prodigal, when I

971
00:53:52,880 --> 00:53:55,719
Speaker 3: got saved, I just got like I was just I was.

972
00:53:55,800 --> 00:53:57,680
Speaker 3: I mean, I like, the next day, I was just like,

973
00:53:58,440 --> 00:54:01,799
Speaker 3: I can't I can't believe God had mercy on me,

974
00:54:01,880 --> 00:54:04,759
Speaker 3: like had grace on me, his grace. And still to

975
00:54:04,800 --> 00:54:08,720
Speaker 3: this day, I'm just like, how even at that conference

976
00:54:08,800 --> 00:54:11,439
Speaker 3: that we were that we were at, you know, it's

977
00:54:11,440 --> 00:54:13,640
Speaker 3: like those I have those moments all the time when

978
00:54:13,640 --> 00:54:17,880
Speaker 3: I'm out on the stage and I'm like, how in

979
00:54:17,960 --> 00:54:21,760
Speaker 3: the world did I get here? Like, oh my God, Grace,

980
00:54:22,200 --> 00:54:25,360
Speaker 3: Like this is crazy that I'm at this conference talking

981
00:54:25,360 --> 00:54:29,239
Speaker 3: about this issue. Like right, It's just it blows my mind.

982
00:54:29,280 --> 00:54:35,040
Speaker 1: Favor just got his favor and love is just more

983
00:54:35,040 --> 00:54:36,440
Speaker 1: than we could ever ever imagine.

984
00:54:36,640 --> 00:54:39,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, Okay, So speaking of favor, let's talk about your

985
00:54:39,680 --> 00:54:45,000
Speaker 3: you found you ended up getting married. Uh, talk about that,

986
00:54:45,120 --> 00:54:49,280
Speaker 3: how you met your husband and then you had two daughters.

987
00:54:51,120 --> 00:54:55,960
Speaker 1: Yes, I sure did. Well that's a whole nother Yeah,

988
00:54:56,040 --> 00:55:00,080
Speaker 1: amazing miracle of God's favor because you know, I I

989
00:55:00,120 --> 00:55:01,920
Speaker 1: just wanted to grow up and get married and have kids.

990
00:55:01,960 --> 00:55:04,799
Speaker 1: But after the lifestyle, I just thought, you know, I'm

991
00:55:04,960 --> 00:55:08,319
Speaker 1: damaged goods. So God had to just you know, heal

992
00:55:08,400 --> 00:55:10,520
Speaker 1: me and go I'm a new creation in Christ. But

993
00:55:10,600 --> 00:55:13,000
Speaker 1: I had to I had to believe that and receive

994
00:55:13,080 --> 00:55:16,560
Speaker 1: that myself before I was ready, I guess, to be married.

995
00:55:18,120 --> 00:55:21,319
Speaker 1: But yeah, it was ten years after I got out

996
00:55:21,360 --> 00:55:23,799
Speaker 1: of the lifestyle that I met my husband. So I

997
00:55:23,840 --> 00:55:26,879
Speaker 1: had ten years of just you know, falling in love

998
00:55:26,920 --> 00:55:31,759
Speaker 1: with Jesus and traveling the world doing ministry, and the

999
00:55:31,800 --> 00:55:33,839
Speaker 1: Lord knew, I guess I just I needed that much

1000
00:55:33,880 --> 00:55:38,040
Speaker 1: time as well as I learned to just pray for

1001
00:55:38,120 --> 00:55:40,560
Speaker 1: my husband even though he wasn't my husband yet, and

1002
00:55:40,600 --> 00:55:43,200
Speaker 1: I just the Lord just I just said, God, I'm

1003
00:55:43,239 --> 00:55:45,600
Speaker 1: just going to pray for his finances, for his emotions,

1004
00:55:45,600 --> 00:55:48,600
Speaker 1: for his friends, because he's out there somewhere, and I'm

1005
00:55:48,640 --> 00:55:50,400
Speaker 1: just going to believe God is going to bring me

1006
00:55:50,920 --> 00:55:52,439
Speaker 1: my husband. And so I think got to the point

1007
00:55:52,440 --> 00:55:54,040
Speaker 1: of just I just started thanking the Lord, thank you

1008
00:55:54,080 --> 00:55:55,880
Speaker 1: Lord for my husband, thank you that you're bringing me

1009
00:55:55,960 --> 00:55:59,160
Speaker 1: my husband, and just acting in faith as if, like

1010
00:56:00,080 --> 00:56:01,840
Speaker 1: I don't want to say if we were already married,

1011
00:56:01,880 --> 00:56:04,560
Speaker 1: but you know, like yeah, because I was like, you know,

1012
00:56:05,160 --> 00:56:07,600
Speaker 1: we believe, therefore we speak. So I'm just I'm going

1013
00:56:07,680 --> 00:56:09,839
Speaker 1: to speak it out. I'm just going to believe in

1014
00:56:09,960 --> 00:56:12,480
Speaker 1: faith that God is going to bring me my husband.

1015
00:56:12,680 --> 00:56:16,840
Speaker 1: And so, uh yeah, ten years later we met. We

1016
00:56:16,880 --> 00:56:19,600
Speaker 1: both were at the same church here in Santa Barbara.

1017
00:56:20,080 --> 00:56:23,680
Speaker 1: But I sat on the front row, and uh, he's

1018
00:56:23,719 --> 00:56:25,840
Speaker 1: real reserved and he sat kind of in the back.

1019
00:56:25,960 --> 00:56:29,239
Speaker 1: And so for five years, Beckett, he watched me walk

1020
00:56:29,320 --> 00:56:33,359
Speaker 1: down and he just is he's so reserved, he never

1021
00:56:33,400 --> 00:56:39,440
Speaker 1: was going to approach me. You're like, come on, you know, honestly,

1022
00:56:39,560 --> 00:56:42,000
Speaker 1: I he likes to joke and say, you were so

1023
00:56:42,080 --> 00:56:43,840
Speaker 1: busy praying for a husband you had no time to

1024
00:56:43,920 --> 00:56:49,920
Speaker 1: notice me. So it is it is kind of true,

1025
00:56:49,960 --> 00:56:52,879
Speaker 1: you know. I I I because I kind of had

1026
00:56:52,880 --> 00:56:55,400
Speaker 1: a fear of men, like I had a lot of

1027
00:56:55,440 --> 00:56:57,799
Speaker 1: healing to do to be able to trust men, and

1028
00:56:57,920 --> 00:57:01,440
Speaker 1: because of the molestation, and I never I just I

1029
00:57:01,480 --> 00:57:04,040
Speaker 1: had had I'd had Honestly, I had had so many

1030
00:57:04,080 --> 00:57:06,640
Speaker 1: men actually proposed to me and they hardly knew me,

1031
00:57:06,760 --> 00:57:08,520
Speaker 1: yet they just would propose. It'd be like, oh, you

1032
00:57:08,600 --> 00:57:11,200
Speaker 1: make a great wife, and you make a great politician's wife,

1033
00:57:11,200 --> 00:57:17,360
Speaker 1: and and so I always said, no, I'm serious. But

1034
00:57:17,400 --> 00:57:20,440
Speaker 1: I mean I had this like fear of like, I

1035
00:57:20,440 --> 00:57:22,560
Speaker 1: don't want somebody just to marry me because I'm going

1036
00:57:22,640 --> 00:57:26,080
Speaker 1: to look like good arm candy for them. And that's

1037
00:57:26,240 --> 00:57:30,120
Speaker 1: that It kind of happened to me. So I was,

1038
00:57:30,360 --> 00:57:32,920
Speaker 1: you know, pretty stand offish to men. I'm sure I'm

1039
00:57:32,920 --> 00:57:35,720
Speaker 1: a pretty strong, bold woman as well. And because I

1040
00:57:35,880 --> 00:57:38,240
Speaker 1: just felt like I want somebody that really is going

1041
00:57:38,280 --> 00:57:41,880
Speaker 1: to nurture my heart and not just go, hey, here's

1042
00:57:41,880 --> 00:57:49,560
Speaker 1: a pretty girl, I was probably pretty unapproachable. So we

1043
00:57:49,600 --> 00:57:51,520
Speaker 1: actually met it as place of work, but one of

1044
00:57:51,520 --> 00:57:53,240
Speaker 1: the elder's wives tried to set us up. But I

1045
00:57:53,280 --> 00:57:54,960
Speaker 1: was being set up. I was always being set up

1046
00:57:54,960 --> 00:57:56,600
Speaker 1: with somebody people I think felt bad for me. Here's

1047
00:57:56,640 --> 00:57:58,520
Speaker 1: this girl, she's in her thirties. Now she's in her

1048
00:57:58,560 --> 00:58:01,920
Speaker 1: late thirties, Like, what's with her? How come she's not married?

1049
00:58:02,000 --> 00:58:04,480
Speaker 1: And you know, then when I would go on dates, Beckett,

1050
00:58:04,480 --> 00:58:06,080
Speaker 1: I never knew when am I supposed to tell the

1051
00:58:06,120 --> 00:58:09,959
Speaker 1: guy about my past? It was this really awkward thing,

1052
00:58:10,240 --> 00:58:13,439
Speaker 1: like at what point in this, you know, I don't

1053
00:58:13,440 --> 00:58:15,800
Speaker 1: want to wait too long and then be like so

1054
00:58:16,000 --> 00:58:18,240
Speaker 1: upset with me that I didn't tell him sooner. But

1055
00:58:18,280 --> 00:58:20,680
Speaker 1: then sometimes I would tell him like right away, and

1056
00:58:20,720 --> 00:58:22,320
Speaker 1: I'd never see or hear from them again. They were

1057
00:58:22,320 --> 00:58:25,200
Speaker 1: so freaked out. So it was this, you know, really

1058
00:58:25,320 --> 00:58:27,960
Speaker 1: hard balance of like when do you reveal this part

1059
00:58:27,960 --> 00:58:29,880
Speaker 1: of your life to them? And how are they going

1060
00:58:29,960 --> 00:58:31,760
Speaker 1: to take it? And yeah, some of them are going

1061
00:58:31,840 --> 00:58:33,600
Speaker 1: to disappear. I mean they're not going to be able

1062
00:58:33,640 --> 00:58:36,440
Speaker 1: to handle it. So I was like, the Lord knows

1063
00:58:36,480 --> 00:58:38,760
Speaker 1: he has somebody that's going to be able to handle

1064
00:58:39,080 --> 00:58:43,160
Speaker 1: my past. So I was set up with him, but

1065
00:58:43,280 --> 00:58:45,760
Speaker 1: I said, no, I'm set up with somebody else right now,

1066
00:58:45,760 --> 00:58:49,320
Speaker 1: like one at a time, and I went into his

1067
00:58:49,400 --> 00:58:52,320
Speaker 1: place of work. He worked at the BMW dealership, and

1068
00:58:52,360 --> 00:58:54,200
Speaker 1: he knew who I was because he had been watching

1069
00:58:54,200 --> 00:58:57,000
Speaker 1: me for five years, but I had never never, never

1070
00:58:57,000 --> 00:58:59,240
Speaker 1: seen him in my mind. So he goes, yeah, we

1071
00:58:59,280 --> 00:59:00,560
Speaker 1: go to the same church, and I go, you go

1072
00:59:00,600 --> 00:59:04,280
Speaker 1: to my church like who are you? And I you know,

1073
00:59:04,360 --> 00:59:06,960
Speaker 1: I was not like love at first sight, not by

1074
00:59:06,960 --> 00:59:08,720
Speaker 1: any means. But he brought me to his office and

1075
00:59:08,760 --> 00:59:12,440
Speaker 1: he shared his testimony with me, and he just he

1076
00:59:12,640 --> 00:59:16,360
Speaker 1: was not cocky or overconfident, but yet he just had

1077
00:59:16,360 --> 00:59:19,440
Speaker 1: a humble way, but he felt comfortable around me. And

1078
00:59:19,640 --> 00:59:23,360
Speaker 1: I felt like other guys were either too cocky, but

1079
00:59:23,360 --> 00:59:25,600
Speaker 1: they probably had to be pretty cocky in order to

1080
00:59:25,640 --> 00:59:28,080
Speaker 1: approach me because I was so unapproachable, or they were

1081
00:59:28,440 --> 00:59:33,360
Speaker 1: too like scared to approach me. So he just yeah. Anyway,

1082
00:59:33,440 --> 00:59:37,120
Speaker 1: long story short, we met and four months later got married,

1083
00:59:37,200 --> 00:59:41,000
Speaker 1: and we had a really quick let's just get on

1084
00:59:41,080 --> 00:59:42,400
Speaker 1: with this, and that was for a There was a

1085
00:59:42,440 --> 00:59:45,920
Speaker 1: lot of different reasons that played into us getting married quickly.

1086
00:59:46,880 --> 00:59:50,160
Speaker 1: I don't recommend it for everybody, but for us some circumstances,

1087
00:59:50,200 --> 00:59:53,000
Speaker 1: with all of the drama with my family and our

1088
00:59:53,040 --> 00:59:55,520
Speaker 1: pastors were moving to Maoi, we really wanted them to

1089
00:59:55,680 --> 00:59:57,520
Speaker 1: marry us, and so for a lot of timing reasons,

1090
00:59:57,560 --> 01:00:01,720
Speaker 1: we got married really quick. But he had been married

1091
01:00:01,760 --> 01:00:04,760
Speaker 1: before and is nine years older, and he had two

1092
01:00:04,840 --> 01:00:09,720
Speaker 1: sons from his first wife, and you know, God knows

1093
01:00:09,760 --> 01:00:12,200
Speaker 1: what we need. I would never probably have gone on

1094
01:00:12,240 --> 01:00:14,720
Speaker 1: a date with him because I said, I had never

1095
01:00:14,800 --> 01:00:17,200
Speaker 1: dated somebody that had been married before, I had never

1096
01:00:17,240 --> 01:00:19,480
Speaker 1: dated somebody that had kids. I was like, I don't

1097
01:00:19,480 --> 01:00:25,120
Speaker 1: need that baggage. And the Lord's like, what about your baggage? Yeah,

1098
01:00:25,200 --> 01:00:31,120
Speaker 1: So anyway, I just know that God hand picked him

1099
01:00:31,160 --> 01:00:35,280
Speaker 1: for me, and the Lord knew that he was perfect

1100
01:00:35,280 --> 01:00:37,240
Speaker 1: for me, even though he was not what I pictured.

1101
01:00:39,040 --> 01:00:41,760
Speaker 1: But because he had been married before, he had a

1102
01:00:41,840 --> 01:00:45,320
Speaker 1: isectomy with in his first marriage, because of a lot

1103
01:00:45,320 --> 01:00:47,720
Speaker 1: of struggles there, and honestly, part of the reason he

1104
01:00:47,760 --> 01:00:50,720
Speaker 1: never really approached me is he had such an awful divorce.

1105
01:00:51,520 --> 01:00:54,080
Speaker 1: His wife cheated on him, left him, and he just thought,

1106
01:00:54,120 --> 01:00:56,760
Speaker 1: I will never get remarried. This was so awful. But

1107
01:00:56,840 --> 01:00:59,480
Speaker 1: he'd always thought I would make a fun coffee date

1108
01:00:59,560 --> 01:01:01,960
Speaker 1: type of thing, but he never thought he'd actually get remarried.

1109
01:01:02,320 --> 01:01:04,440
Speaker 1: So that was a total miracle that the Lord did

1110
01:01:04,480 --> 01:01:07,440
Speaker 1: on his heart to want to marry me, and that

1111
01:01:07,520 --> 01:01:09,280
Speaker 1: I wanted to marry somebody that had been divorced and

1112
01:01:09,360 --> 01:01:12,160
Speaker 1: had kids. And I'm like, hey, you know, I'm the

1113
01:01:12,160 --> 01:01:14,040
Speaker 1: oldest of nine. I want to have a big family.

1114
01:01:14,560 --> 01:01:17,280
Speaker 1: He's like, but you're thirty seven, and your doctor says

1115
01:01:17,320 --> 01:01:21,120
Speaker 1: you don't know if you ovulate or not. So he's thinking, well,

1116
01:01:21,160 --> 01:01:24,200
Speaker 1: and I've had a issectomy, so like he's like we're done.

1117
01:01:24,200 --> 01:01:27,040
Speaker 1: I mean, his boys were like twelve and fourteen. But

1118
01:01:27,120 --> 01:01:28,960
Speaker 1: he's like, you know, when we're talking marriage, He's like,

1119
01:01:29,000 --> 01:01:31,040
Speaker 1: but we can, we can, I can get it reversed.

1120
01:01:31,200 --> 01:01:35,280
Speaker 1: But in his mind he's thinking, no, we're just gonna

1121
01:01:36,000 --> 01:01:38,960
Speaker 1: go on because chances are I'm not going to be

1122
01:01:39,000 --> 01:01:44,440
Speaker 1: able to conceive anyway. Long story short, I start praying

1123
01:01:44,440 --> 01:01:46,760
Speaker 1: for God to change his heart to want to have

1124
01:01:46,880 --> 01:01:50,800
Speaker 1: kids and I go get checked. They're like, well, you're

1125
01:01:50,800 --> 01:01:54,560
Speaker 1: actually ovulating. So I'm like, honey, you know guess what.

1126
01:01:54,600 --> 01:01:56,760
Speaker 1: You can have that reversal surgery. The doctor says, I

1127
01:01:56,800 --> 01:02:00,160
Speaker 1: actually am ovulating, and he looks at me like, what

1128
01:02:00,320 --> 01:02:04,920
Speaker 1: are you talking about. So that was another year and

1129
01:02:04,960 --> 01:02:08,120
Speaker 1: a half of God growing my faith, just praying, not

1130
01:02:08,680 --> 01:02:11,280
Speaker 1: nagging him, just praying for him to want to have

1131
01:02:11,320 --> 01:02:15,480
Speaker 1: this reversal surgery. Yeah, he had the reversal surgery. They're

1132
01:02:15,520 --> 01:02:20,959
Speaker 1: not always successful. Praise God. It was successful. The doctor said, Okay,

1133
01:02:21,000 --> 01:02:23,000
Speaker 1: it looks like it was successful. Be about a year

1134
01:02:23,000 --> 01:02:25,560
Speaker 1: before you probably could conceive because it will take a

1135
01:02:25,560 --> 01:02:28,600
Speaker 1: while for the sperm to be healthy. So we're like, okay,

1136
01:02:28,600 --> 01:02:32,520
Speaker 1: he'll be about a year. Very first month I am pregnant.

1137
01:02:32,520 --> 01:02:35,640
Speaker 1: We're looking at this piece that going. We couldn't believe

1138
01:02:35,640 --> 01:02:41,240
Speaker 1: our eyes. So I'm forty years old, conceive completely naturally,

1139
01:02:42,040 --> 01:02:44,760
Speaker 1: have a home birth, have my first miracle daughter. I'm

1140
01:02:44,800 --> 01:02:49,520
Speaker 1: like blown away, just like God redeemed my life.

1141
01:02:49,760 --> 01:02:52,080
Speaker 3: Wait, how old were you when you had your first daughter?

1142
01:02:52,480 --> 01:02:53,120
Speaker 1: I was forty?

1143
01:02:53,760 --> 01:02:54,040
Speaker 3: Wow?

1144
01:02:54,160 --> 01:02:57,320
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah I was forty. Yeah. No. People are like

1145
01:02:57,440 --> 01:02:59,919
Speaker 1: what I mean, They think, surely you did iv Yeah,

1146
01:03:00,280 --> 01:03:04,520
Speaker 1: you know, I'm like, nope, completely natural. I had a

1147
01:03:04,600 --> 01:03:09,400
Speaker 1: home birth even wow, and not even an aspirin backet.

1148
01:03:10,520 --> 01:03:14,120
Speaker 3: Whoa, wow, that's a great.

1149
01:03:14,320 --> 01:03:16,200
Speaker 1: Well, you know, my mom had all home births, so

1150
01:03:16,240 --> 01:03:19,000
Speaker 1: that's I was at my siblings births, at my mom

1151
01:03:19,080 --> 01:03:20,920
Speaker 1: with my mom. So I just, you know, I was

1152
01:03:21,360 --> 01:03:24,200
Speaker 1: I thought that's what I would do. So but anyway,

1153
01:03:24,320 --> 01:03:27,280
Speaker 1: I say all that because we conceived as soon as

1154
01:03:27,320 --> 01:03:30,360
Speaker 1: the reversal surgery had happened, so we just thought, oh,

1155
01:03:30,360 --> 01:03:32,880
Speaker 1: we'll get pregnant again, and you know, I better hurry up.

1156
01:03:32,880 --> 01:03:37,280
Speaker 1: I'm forty, you know, let's start having these kids. But

1157
01:03:38,600 --> 01:03:41,520
Speaker 1: it was six and a half years of infertility and

1158
01:03:41,560 --> 01:03:47,360
Speaker 1: of multiple multiple miscarriages, and I just it's a whole

1159
01:03:47,400 --> 01:03:50,280
Speaker 1: nother show because it was such a trying time for

1160
01:03:50,960 --> 01:03:55,080
Speaker 1: my faith and my life because I so so longed

1161
01:03:55,080 --> 01:03:57,800
Speaker 1: for another child and so long for my daughter to

1162
01:03:57,960 --> 01:04:00,160
Speaker 1: have a sibling. I couldn't imagine her growing up an

1163
01:04:00,160 --> 01:04:03,280
Speaker 1: only child, especially me with you know, eight siblings, just

1164
01:04:03,320 --> 01:04:06,880
Speaker 1: like you a big family, and I have people go,

1165
01:04:06,920 --> 01:04:09,240
Speaker 1: why don't you just be thankful for the daughter you have,

1166
01:04:09,440 --> 01:04:11,600
Speaker 1: you know, or why don't you adopt like you're you're

1167
01:04:11,600 --> 01:04:14,640
Speaker 1: really too old to probably get pregnant again. Like, but

1168
01:04:15,440 --> 01:04:18,000
Speaker 1: I got to the place where I was like, Lord,

1169
01:04:19,200 --> 01:04:21,320
Speaker 1: if you have this for me, then you're gonna have

1170
01:04:21,360 --> 01:04:24,120
Speaker 1: to give me your hope and faith because I am

1171
01:04:24,320 --> 01:04:28,800
Speaker 1: so done with this journey. And every single month it's

1172
01:04:28,840 --> 01:04:30,640
Speaker 1: it's a roller coaster. You know, every month you think

1173
01:04:30,640 --> 01:04:32,080
Speaker 1: you're pregnant, and then all of a sudden you're not,

1174
01:04:32,120 --> 01:04:34,480
Speaker 1: and then every month and so so every month, you know,

1175
01:04:34,520 --> 01:04:36,920
Speaker 1: when I would like realize I wasn't pregnant, I'd be

1176
01:04:36,960 --> 01:04:39,840
Speaker 1: like and and within a couple hours, I just would

1177
01:04:39,840 --> 01:04:42,680
Speaker 1: feel like the Lord would be infuse me with his

1178
01:04:42,800 --> 01:04:46,360
Speaker 1: hope and I go, Okay, Lord, you've given me enough

1179
01:04:46,400 --> 01:04:49,480
Speaker 1: hope for another month. Okay, I'm going to hope you

1180
01:04:49,800 --> 01:04:55,400
Speaker 1: hopeing you for another month to conceive, and so by yeah,

1181
01:04:55,440 --> 01:04:57,800
Speaker 1: by the grace of God, I gave birth at forty

1182
01:04:57,840 --> 01:05:02,640
Speaker 1: six to my my second daughter, and again completely natural.

1183
01:05:02,640 --> 01:05:05,320
Speaker 1: We're very very pro life. We it's a whole other show,

1184
01:05:05,360 --> 01:05:07,760
Speaker 1: but we don't believe that we should take matters into

1185
01:05:07,760 --> 01:05:09,200
Speaker 1: our own hands. I was like, I don't want to

1186
01:05:09,200 --> 01:05:13,040
Speaker 1: burst birth and ishmael by by doing IVF. I just

1187
01:05:13,240 --> 01:05:16,040
Speaker 1: and that's between. Everybody can decide how they feel about that.

1188
01:05:16,080 --> 01:05:18,120
Speaker 1: But I just felt my husband and I just really

1189
01:05:18,160 --> 01:05:20,040
Speaker 1: felt like, you know what, if the Lord has another

1190
01:05:20,120 --> 01:05:23,680
Speaker 1: child for us, then he can do this, you know, supernaturally.

1191
01:05:24,280 --> 01:05:29,919
Speaker 1: And so yeah, I had my second one for six

1192
01:05:29,960 --> 01:05:32,440
Speaker 1: and a half years later and named her Ruth on

1193
01:05:32,560 --> 01:05:34,200
Speaker 1: a hope. I had to give her middle named Hope

1194
01:05:34,240 --> 01:05:36,600
Speaker 1: because it was truly the Lord giving me hope to

1195
01:05:36,680 --> 01:05:42,360
Speaker 1: keep hoping. And so I'm just so grateful for God.

1196
01:05:42,400 --> 01:05:46,880
Speaker 1: He redeems our life from the pit, and He's just

1197
01:05:46,920 --> 01:05:49,960
Speaker 1: given me way way more than I ever ever ever deserved,

1198
01:05:49,960 --> 01:05:53,000
Speaker 1: ever imagined, never imagine I get to meet you, Beckett

1199
01:05:53,000 --> 01:05:56,640
Speaker 1: and be on your show and get to share, you know,

1200
01:05:56,680 --> 01:05:59,560
Speaker 1: what God has done and set me free from And

1201
01:06:00,160 --> 01:06:03,040
Speaker 1: so yeah, I think.

1202
01:06:03,440 --> 01:06:06,920
Speaker 3: Well we're going to leave it there because that's the

1203
01:06:06,960 --> 01:06:09,640
Speaker 3: best thing, that's the best place to leave it. Because

1204
01:06:09,640 --> 01:06:13,000
Speaker 3: you just said it all. But tell us about just

1205
01:06:13,040 --> 01:06:14,720
Speaker 3: before we leave, tell us about you have a book

1206
01:06:14,760 --> 01:06:17,520
Speaker 3: coming out later this year. What's the book.

1207
01:06:18,840 --> 01:06:22,200
Speaker 1: Yes, I'm very excited. I actually I wrote a rough manuscript,

1208
01:06:22,680 --> 01:06:26,000
Speaker 1: probably almost fifteen years ago, put it on the shelf,

1209
01:06:26,280 --> 01:06:32,400
Speaker 1: and I'm finally finishing it. It takes you through my childhood,

1210
01:06:32,920 --> 01:06:35,760
Speaker 1: and it takes you to when I am twenty seven

1211
01:06:35,840 --> 01:06:38,960
Speaker 1: years old and I have just gotten out of the

1212
01:06:39,000 --> 01:06:42,520
Speaker 1: relationship with my girlfriend, and I've just gotten the letter

1213
01:06:43,240 --> 01:06:46,480
Speaker 1: excommunicating me from my family, and I get on my

1214
01:06:46,600 --> 01:06:49,640
Speaker 1: knees and I hold the letter up and I say, lord,

1215
01:06:50,320 --> 01:06:52,760
Speaker 1: this is your life, whatever you want to do with it.

1216
01:06:53,600 --> 01:06:59,080
Speaker 1: So the book is titled Unsilenced, and it talks about,

1217
01:06:59,280 --> 01:07:01,960
Speaker 1: you know, I kind of my tagline is, you know,

1218
01:07:02,280 --> 01:07:07,160
Speaker 1: perfection shattered when truth and love broke through. So I

1219
01:07:08,000 --> 01:07:12,600
Speaker 1: had to live this very perfect life. I felt. My

1220
01:07:12,720 --> 01:07:15,560
Speaker 1: dad had this very high expectation of what we should

1221
01:07:15,560 --> 01:07:17,560
Speaker 1: look like and how we should dress, and how we

1222
01:07:17,560 --> 01:07:21,480
Speaker 1: should behave, and so I try to fulfill that perfection

1223
01:07:21,640 --> 01:07:26,600
Speaker 1: for so long. But all of that shattered when I

1224
01:07:26,760 --> 01:07:30,959
Speaker 1: really met Jesus and when his truth and love came through.

1225
01:07:31,440 --> 01:07:35,479
Speaker 1: So it's the journey of how God brought me through

1226
01:07:35,560 --> 01:07:37,600
Speaker 1: basically what you've heard. It just goes into a lot

1227
01:07:37,600 --> 01:07:42,600
Speaker 1: more detail of my story and how Jesus is It

1228
01:07:42,640 --> 01:07:46,080
Speaker 1: was a miracle, how Jesus did a miracle with my life,

1229
01:07:46,240 --> 01:07:49,840
Speaker 1: and to give people hope that it doesn't matter what

1230
01:07:50,160 --> 01:07:53,760
Speaker 1: struggle they are in, or what their child is dealing

1231
01:07:53,800 --> 01:07:58,280
Speaker 1: with same sex attraction or whatever sin struggle, that there

1232
01:07:58,520 --> 01:08:02,160
Speaker 1: is a God who can absolutely set them free. He's

1233
01:08:02,200 --> 01:08:06,240
Speaker 1: a God of miracles and nothing, nothing is impossible for

1234
01:08:06,360 --> 01:08:08,720
Speaker 1: our Lord, and I'm living proof of it.

1235
01:08:10,440 --> 01:08:14,200
Speaker 3: I am too. Amen. Amen, Wait did you say when?

1236
01:08:14,960 --> 01:08:15,960
Speaker 3: When is it available?

1237
01:08:17,280 --> 01:08:19,479
Speaker 1: This late later this year? I don't have an official

1238
01:08:19,520 --> 01:08:23,280
Speaker 1: release date. Yeah, the last chapter is literally we've just

1239
01:08:23,320 --> 01:08:26,599
Speaker 1: finished the last chapter. It's in the editing process right now,

1240
01:08:27,080 --> 01:08:29,360
Speaker 1: so it's going to go to print this summer, so

1241
01:08:29,800 --> 01:08:33,839
Speaker 1: hopefully by September October we'll have it ready for purchase.

1242
01:08:34,920 --> 01:08:38,439
Speaker 3: That's awesome. Okay, Well, congrats on the book, Naomi van Wike.

1243
01:08:38,560 --> 01:08:40,599
Speaker 3: Thank you for coming on the show and sharing your

1244
01:08:40,760 --> 01:08:45,519
Speaker 3: amazing story. God is amazing, I mean, his grace. I

1245
01:08:45,560 --> 01:08:47,400
Speaker 3: can't get over it. But thank you for coming on

1246
01:08:47,400 --> 01:08:47,879
Speaker 3: the show.

1247
01:08:48,400 --> 01:08:51,040
Speaker 1: Beckett, you are such a joy. I'm so glad God

1248
01:08:51,080 --> 01:08:53,880
Speaker 1: connected us, and thank you so much. I look forward

1249
01:08:53,920 --> 01:08:56,880
Speaker 1: to having you on my show and learn I know.

1250
01:08:57,160 --> 01:08:59,360
Speaker 3: I can't wait. I can't wait soon.

1251
01:08:59,560 --> 01:09:03,040
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. You're an inspiration. God bless you, God.

1252
01:09:02,840 --> 01:09:08,200
Speaker 2: Bless thank you for listening to this episode of The

1253
01:09:08,240 --> 01:09:13,320
Speaker 2: Beckett Cook Show. Your support makes this content possible. All

1254
01:09:13,400 --> 01:09:17,080
Speaker 2: episodes of The Beckett Cook Show are also available on YouTube.

1255
01:09:17,960 --> 01:09:21,120
Speaker 2: For more information about Beckett and his ministry, visit his

1256
01:09:21,200 --> 01:09:24,439
Speaker 2: website at Becketcook dot com.

1257
01:09:24,560 --> 01:09:26,479
Speaker 3: Thank you to the team at Life Audio for their

1258
01:09:26,520 --> 01:09:29,479
Speaker 3: partnership with us. If you go to lifeaudio dot com,

1259
01:09:29,520 --> 01:09:33,599
Speaker 3: you will find more faith centered podcasts about prayer, Bible study, parenting,

1260
01:09:33,640 --> 01:09:34,000
Speaker 3: and more.